Log for #openttd on 16th March 2006:
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00:05:04  <Sacro> damn this LAN
00:05:27  <Sacro> ive known mental patients with more stability
00:06:27  <Sacro> 1.1 kbps off a 1.5Mb line
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00:11:02  <Sacro> anyone home?
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00:18:24  <BurtyB> nn
00:20:38  <CIA-5> Darkvater * r3895 /trunk/ (9 files):
00:20:38  <CIA-5> - Add proper SLE(G)_CONDNULL macros for the empty space reservation in savegames and update where used
00:20:38  <CIA-5> - Also add this capability to settings
00:22:38  <CIA-5> Darkvater * r3896 /trunk/settings.c: - [Patches] Fix: Honour any conditional settings when retrieving the setting entries.
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00:32:27  <CIA-5> Darkvater * r3897 /trunk/openttd.dsp: - Add some more missing files to VS6 project. Thanks for bringing it to my attention glx.
00:33:07  <Bjarni> Darkvater: did you see that you got added to
00:33:24  <Bjarni>
00:34:32  <Bjarni> damn it's late
00:34:34  <Bjarni> goodnight
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00:43:46  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... can somebody explain to me why my freight rating is 3/8 even though i deliver grain, livestock, coal, oil and goods?
00:44:53  <Eddi|zuHause> (that is 5, but i am not known for my counting skills :))
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00:45:46  <glx> you deliver all this freight in the same month?
00:46:51  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... not sure... isn't the rating for 3 months?
00:47:47  <glx> you're right last 3 month
00:48:32  <Eddi|zuHause> ah... some trains got stuck
00:48:36  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it's that
00:48:53  <Eddi|zuHause> jumped to 5/8 now
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05:28:19  <CIA-5> tron * r3898 /trunk/ (bridge_map.c bridge_map.h tunnelbridge_cmd.c): Add functions to find a bridge end starting at a middle tile
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06:06:11  <CIA-5> tron * r3899 /trunk/ (bridge_map.h tunnelbridge_cmd.c): Use wrapper functions to make more clear how deleting stuff under bridges works; also remove an unnecessary local variable
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06:30:50  <CIA-5> tron * r3900 /trunk/tunnelbridge_cmd.c: When clearing a bridge determine the bridge direction and tile offset once instead of all over the place; also use UpdateSignalsOnSegment() instead of SetSignalsOnBothDir(), because this is sufficient
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06:38:54  <CIA-5> tron * r3901 /trunk/tunnelbridge_cmd.c: Remove the last user of FindEdgesOfBridge() by using functions with similar functionality
07:03:08  <Patrick`> I'm noticing a problem with shares and buyouts with the AI, I assume it's been fixed in the last 900 revisions but I should say anyway:
07:03:33  <Patrick`> sucky AIs offer to sell me the company for , but they usually have about k of assets, it makes the start game easier
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07:12:29  <CIA-5> tron * r3902 /trunk/tunnelbridge_cmd.c: When drawing a bridge middle part get the bridge axis only once instead of again and again
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07:17:12  <Vornicus> k of assets, but how much cash?
07:17:16  <Vornicus> how much loans?
07:17:36  <Fujitsu> Normally about 0,000 of loans, I'd have to guess...
07:18:41  <CIA-5> tron * r3903 /trunk/tunnelbridge_cmd.c: Fix a copy&pasto in last commit and remove a redundant comment (the line above already says what's going on)
07:20:51  <Patrick`> cash zero
07:20:56  <Patrick`> and the loan doesn't port over
07:21:01  <Patrick`> that must have been added later
07:21:14  <Patrick`> which makes more sense, because currently it's just free money by selling vehicles
07:21:23  <Vornicus> idunno; I never play against an AI, seeing as I've never seen it do anything but waste money.
07:21:37  <Patrick`> neither do I but I felt that that was too easy/boring
07:21:41  <Fujitsu> The loan does port over!
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07:21:54  <Patrick`> Fujitsu: I'm using revision three thousand, ZERO, and five
07:22:10  <Patrick`> because it has all my patches i like applied and I cba recompiling a new one
07:22:11  <Vornicus> um
07:22:13  <peter1138> well update before reporting :P
07:22:23  <Patrick`> see my FIRST LINE
07:22:24  <Vornicus> get the latest, please.
07:22:39  <Patrick`> "I assume it's been fixed in the last 900 revisions but I should say anyway"
07:22:43  <Patrick`> can you, um, not read?
07:23:00  <Patrick`> anyway, I'll update when people stop letting autosignals die
07:24:59  <Patrick`> and kickoff times, I can't understand how anyone let that continue to exist
07:25:09  <Patrick`> it totally alters the dynamics
07:25:14  <Patrick`> in a bad way
07:25:39  <Fujitsu> kickoff times?
07:26:24  <Patrick`> train takes 1 second to go from stationary to moving
07:26:44  <Patrick`> nice for steam, not so nice for "anything less than 50 years old"
07:27:55  <Singaporekid> Nice for steam? :o
07:28:00  <Patrick`> realistic
07:28:08  <Patrick`> and not that detrimental because it's so slow anyway
07:28:17  <Patrick`> anyway, I gotta fly
07:28:58  <Patrick`> patches come and go and it's frustrating because I can't maintain them myself
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07:37:16  <Patrick`> (yes, I checked that the latest revision still has bloody kickoff times
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07:51:42  <Hendikins> Hrm. You know, I just realised something. I haven't touched ottd since PBS was removed.
07:52:06  <Patrick`> ... pbs was removed?
07:52:10  <Patrick`> anyway, gotta go
07:58:05  <Vornicus> yeah, it was.
07:58:11  <Vornicus> too damn buggy.
07:58:44  <Vornicus> KUDr has been working on improving it.
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08:08:36  <Celestar> hey there
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08:44:26  <peter1138> 'lo
08:44:42  * peter1138 works on integrating the "physics" acceleration patch
08:44:47  <peter1138> (in a less destructive way)
08:44:55  <Matt-W> Oooh
08:45:54  <peter1138> well, i'm going to work now... but :)
08:47:51  <Celestar> ^^
08:47:57  <Celestar> peter1138: what acceleration patch?
08:50:05  <Matt-W> <- that one?
08:50:11  <Matt-W> (just a guess)
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09:05:17  <Celestar> wee
09:05:22  <Celestar> there is Samba 4.0TP1 :P
09:05:55  <peter1138> the herjigciuaugaguan one
09:06:04  <Celestar> the WHAT?
09:06:28  <Celestar> "Samba4 TP is currently a pre-alpha technology.  It may eat your cat, but
09:06:29  <Celestar> is far more likely to choose to munch on your password database"
09:10:02  <peter1138> this sucks
09:10:10  <peter1138> i've got two other people's work to do
09:10:13  <peter1138> as well as my own
09:10:15  <Celestar> :S
09:10:17  <Celestar> welcome to the club
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09:15:08  <peter1138> Author: tron
09:15:09  <peter1138> Date: 2006-03-16 05:28:15 +0000 (Thu, 16 Mar 2006)
09:15:12  <peter1138> far too early :)
09:17:12  <Celestar> crappy crappy stuff ;S
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09:31:31  <peter1138> hmm
09:31:43  <peter1138> Matt-W: yes, that one
09:31:45  <peter1138> however
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09:31:57  <peter1138> the guy doesn't really know the internals...
09:32:23  <peter1138> he uses some complicated thing to get bridge height to determine if an engine is on or off a bridge
09:32:57  <peter1138> this involves looping to find the bridge end
09:33:10  <peter1138> whereas... you can simply check the direction...
09:33:10  <Celestar> well.
09:36:04  <peter1138> well? :)
09:39:53  <Matt-W> sounds like a patch I might have written...
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09:44:47  <Singaporekid> :o
09:47:00  <peter1138> heh
09:49:20  <Matt-W> Is there any good low-hanging fruit that someone who doesn't know the codebase at all would be able to handle?
09:49:31  <Matt-W> (but obviously, someone who knows C)
09:55:43  <tron_> peter1138: i hear something about bridges, anything of interest?
09:56:11  <tron_> Matt-W: you get a golden cookie if you write sensible window handling routines
09:56:31  <Matt-W> What's wrong with the current ones?
09:56:46  <tron_> let me put it this way...
09:56:49  <tron_> BIG UGLY HACK
09:56:56  <ThePizzaKing> or if you go into #tycoon, JTanzos might just give you a cookie anyway ;)
09:57:16  <tron_> oh, did i mention it's BIG, UGLY and a HACK?
09:57:37  <tron_> and it's about as flexible as a brick wall
09:57:42  <Matt-W> So that's a fairly major thing then
09:58:22  <tron_> it does not interfere with the game mechanics at all, that's the only good thing
09:58:38  <Matt-W> But does involve some rather violent alterations to the GUI code
09:58:50  <Matt-W> Which does rather remind me of native old-style Windows programming
09:59:01  <Matt-W> Only with less cryptic function names
09:59:01  <tron_> if you want to do something, look for a detail that bugs you, a feature you always wanted to have and hack it (:
09:59:16  <Matt-W> I've been thinking about the messages system
10:00:46  <Matt-W> I have to turn a lot of messages off otherwise it can't keep up... there has to be a better way to present some of that information
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10:00:53  <CIA-5> tron * r3904 /trunk/ (bridge_map.h tunnelbridge_cmd.c): Move GetBridgePiece() and GetBridgeType() to bridge_map.h and make the only place which still extracted that info diretly use the wrapper
10:04:20  <Matt-W> I shall have to think about it more carefully
10:05:42  <peter1138> tron_: nope, nothing interesting
10:05:43  <tron_> Celestar: <-- could you please tell this guy to stop talking nonsense?
10:06:19  <tron_> peter1138: ok
10:06:21  <peter1138> lol
10:06:23  <peter1138> nice :)
10:08:01  <peter1138> re window handling
10:08:12  <peter1138> in theory you could write a wholly separate new window handling system
10:08:19  <Fujitsu> It would be nice.
10:08:21  <peter1138> and slowly migrate existing gui code to use it
10:08:23  <Matt-W> That would require a lot of thinking
10:08:28  * Fujitsu studies up on the current one.
10:08:35  <Fujitsu> I have given much thought to this matter...
10:08:35  <Matt-W> Didn't someone on the forums try that a while back?
10:08:41  <peter1138> they wimped out
10:08:48  <Matt-W> Thought so
10:08:52  <Fujitsu> It shouldn't be too difficult.
10:08:53  <Matt-W> It is a rather large prospect
10:08:56  <Fujitsu> As migration can be slow.
10:08:59  <Fujitsu> It is large.
10:09:01  <Matt-W> Doable with a decent design though
10:09:09  <Matt-W> Design is key
10:09:13  <Fujitsu> Yeah.
10:09:18  <peter1138> just don't reimplement gtk or qt :)
10:09:21  <Matt-W> (Now I sound like one of the lecturers I used to snore at)
10:09:27  <Matt-W> I don't think we need anything that sophisticated somehow
10:09:30  <Fujitsu> We all love GTK+.
10:09:36  <tron_> something which automagically respects the screen size would be the icing on the cake
10:09:40  * Matt-W is a GTK+ programmer in other channels
10:09:41  <Qball> you need a widget set, you need a window manager
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10:09:52  <Qball> font rendering, image rendering
10:10:06  <Celestar> tron_: what guy? wait
10:10:10  <Qball> you need list views, icon views, buttons, dropdown boxes etc etc
10:10:17  <Fujitsu> We need a Widget Team!
10:10:17  <tron_> fonts and image rendering is already there, there are simple functions to blit sprites and write text
10:10:25  <Matt-W> Qball: not necessarily
10:10:29  <tron_> Celestar: third post in that thread
10:10:41  <Matt-W> A game doesn't require the breadth of widgets needed for a general-purpose toolkit
10:10:45  <Celestar> tron_: will do, once I found why I'm not able to log in.
10:11:01  <Qball> Matt-W: no, but I am just listing (from the top of my head) what openttd has atm.
10:11:11  <Matt-W> Qball: yeah it does have quite a few
10:11:13  <Qball> radio boxes, check boxes, spin-buttons.
10:11:15  * Fujitsu would participate in the design/coding if required.
10:11:22  <tron_> automagically drawing the main tool bar in two lines if the screen isn't wide enough *dream*
10:11:30  <peter1138> :)
10:11:35  <Qball> tron_: shouldn't be to hard
10:11:39  <Fujitsu> A *proper* spinbutton implementation would be nice. The current one is non-ideall.
10:11:43  <Fujitsu> *non-ideal.
10:11:43  <Matt-W> automagically sticking the build tools on the right of the main toolbar if the screen is wide enough... yum
10:11:52  <Fujitsu> Yes.
10:11:55  <tron_> Fujitsu: i'd rather say the current doesn't exist
10:11:57  <Fujitsu> Pretty easy, with a proper system.
10:12:01  <Fujitsu> I guess not.
10:12:12  <Fujitsu> It is a nasty hack...
10:12:19  <peter1138> spinbuttons are hand drawn and hand, er, handled...
10:12:23  * Matt-W winces
10:12:51  <Fujitsu> Yes.
10:12:54  <tron_> peter1138: that's the "doesn't exist"-part i just mentioned /:
10:13:01  <Qball> isn't there some uber-light opensource widget system that we can rip off.
10:13:10  <Matt-W> FLTK?
10:13:15  <Matt-W> How light's that these days
10:13:19  <Fujitsu> Everything is really badly done... Bad I'm unsure how much better we could redo it...
10:13:23  <Matt-W> Probably easier to do our own though
10:13:29  <Fujitsu> Mmmmm. FLTK I don't like.
10:13:31  <Qball> Matt-W: am afraid so
10:13:34  <Matt-W> Since you'd need to rewrite the rendering/events layer anyway
10:14:00  <Fujitsu> Let's make OpenTTD an native GKT application >:)
10:14:02  <Matt-W> But something which could avoid these nasty functions with huge switch statements in would be nice
10:14:04  <Fujitsu> *GTK
10:14:09  <Fujitsu> Yes.
10:14:18  <Fujitsu> Like... Proper callbacks?
10:14:25  <Matt-W> Well... in a limited sense
10:14:31  <Qball> don't know if you want todo the rendering on gtk level
10:14:33  <Matt-W> Doesn't need the hyper-flexibility you get in GTK
10:14:37  <Fujitsu> No.
10:14:45  <Matt-W> But callbacks, yes
10:14:48  <Fujitsu> Yes.
10:14:49  <Matt-W> Fixed-type callbacks aren't hard
10:14:50  <Qball> cairo is still to slow
10:14:51  <Fujitsu> Proper callbacks.
10:15:31  <Matt-W> And would one stick with pixel positioning or try and do a box packing model?
10:15:36  <peter1138> tron_: yeah
10:15:46  <Fujitsu> Box packing is nice...
10:15:52  <Matt-W> Yeah but do we need it?
10:15:56  <peter1138> Fujitsu: have fun porting to windows
10:16:05  <Qball> peter1138: gtk runs on windows
10:16:09  <Qball> and on handhelds
10:16:10  <Fujitsu> It does.
10:16:14  <peter1138> have fun running ottd in fullscreen mode ;P
10:16:17  <Fujitsu> I develop apps for it a bit.
10:16:19  <Fujitsu> Heheheh
10:16:20  <Qball> peter1138: I can do that
10:16:28  <Matt-W> can do fullscreen with gtk no problem
10:16:34  <Matt-W> but it's not a good basis for OpenTTD
10:16:34  <Qball> gtk_window_set_fullscreen(window, TRUE);
10:16:36  <peter1138> with multiple windows?
10:16:36  <Qball> done
10:16:53  <peter1138> hmm
10:16:56  <Qball> peter1138: gtk is nicely written, it's very flexible
10:16:59  <peter1138> heh
10:17:09  <Qball> but overkill for us
10:17:13  <Matt-W> But it's not really made for doing in-game GUIs
10:17:15  <Fujitsu> It would be interesting to have an abstracted UI that could have GTK and QT interfaces, so OpenTTD could be/look native.
10:17:16  <peter1138> separate paint/click/etc event handlers could be done with the current system
10:17:18  <Fujitsu> </pipedream>
10:17:22  <peter1138> but there's not a lot of point doing that
10:17:24  <Fujitsu> They could.
10:17:52  <Matt-W> If I started a forum thread on this it'd get full of 'oooh when will it be ready?' posts wouldn't it
10:17:53  <tron_> Fujitsu: OTTD _is_ native: the native TTD style. I think that's important
10:18:04  <Fujitsu> Yes.
10:18:12  <Matt-W> yes, it still needs to look like TTD
10:18:17  <Fujitsu> We need to reimplement that style... Properly.
10:18:31  <Fujitsu> Note the dodgy (albeit original) implementation that we have now.
10:18:34  <Fujitsu> It is SHOCKING.
10:18:38  <Matt-W> I had noticed...
10:18:42  <Fujitsu> A disgrace to humanity.
10:19:16  * tron_ hugs the windowing system
10:19:23  <Matt-W> At least it works
10:19:35  <Matt-W> I'd really love to have a go at this
10:19:37  * tron_ whispers to the windowing system: Fujitsu doesn't really mean it
10:19:39  * Fujitsu gets a restraining order issued between tron_ and the windowing system.
10:19:46  <Matt-W> Just not entirely by myself
10:19:49  * Fujitsu tells tron_ to snap out of the loving.
10:19:58  <Fujitsu> I would love to help, Matt-W.
10:20:20  <tron_> Fujitsu: you made the windowing system cry ):
10:20:23  <Fujitsu> I have thought the same thing... Just that I couldn't do it by myself.
10:20:33  * Fujitsu throws a few punches at the windowing system.
10:22:28  * Fujitsu kicks out the windowing system, and sticks a proper one in it's place.
10:22:38  <Matt-W> if it was that easy...
10:22:44  <Fujitsu> Well.
10:22:55  <Fujitsu> The first step is to analyse what it really needs to do.
10:22:59  <Matt-W> Yes
10:24:00  <peter1138> matrices
10:24:21  <peter1138> you could have a handle to draw each segment
10:24:23  <peter1138> +r
10:24:32  <peter1138> and it can draw/handle its own scrollbar
10:25:10  <Matt-W> Which is more or less how GtkTreeView works
10:26:29  <Matt-W> Obviously it needs to be sufficiently abstracted that when 32bpp comes along, various rendering upgrades are doable in an uncomplicated manner
10:26:54  <Fujitsu> Yes.
10:27:07  <Fujitsu> It needs to be very customisable.
10:27:52  <peter1138> might be slower though
10:28:08  <Fujitsu> It might.
10:28:12  <peter1138> as currently the loops for drawing them also often work out which items should be drawn
10:28:38  <Matt-W> Efficiency needs to be a fairly strong consideration
10:28:45  <Fujitsu> I suppose.
10:28:59  <peter1138> drawing a list of engines
10:29:10  <Matt-W> I gather from the forums that some people are running OpenTTD on fairly low-spec systems
10:29:21  <Fujitsu> Yes.
10:29:23  <peter1138> if you called a handler for each item, it would need to loop through all items to find the index it should draw
10:29:43  <Fujitsu> Wouldn't it be nice if evil hacks weren't necessary for scrollable list boxen...
10:29:56  <peter1138> yeah
10:31:02  <Matt-W> Doing list boxes nicely without chewing memory isn't easy...
10:31:17  <Fujitsu> Isn't it?
10:31:38  <Matt-W> Well I don't think it is...
10:31:43  <tron_> peter1138: i think the actual sprite blitting takes 98% or more of the time
10:31:54  <Matt-W> Depends how the game handles some of its internal structures
10:31:55  <peter1138> not on my pc :)
10:32:03  <peter1138> on a big game, heh
10:32:35  <Matt-W> Say you've got to draw the list of all the player's trains
10:33:24  <Matt-W> IF you know how high each row needs to be you've got a good start on working out which items you need to actually draw
10:33:45  <Matt-W> But ultimate generic list box wouldn't know...
10:34:49  <Matt-W> Not that it's a major problem to require all rows in a list box to be the same height, most toolkits do that
10:36:08  <Matt-W> Hmmmm
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10:37:44  <Matt-W> I wonder if it's worth looking at the other guy's code
10:37:51  <Qball> list store with non-equal height rows are not hard... just cpu intensive
10:37:57  <Matt-W> yeah
10:38:02  <Matt-W> Well probably not necessary though
10:38:13  <Matt-W> non-equal-height rows aren't exactly needed in the TTD interface
10:38:24  <Qball> depends on how dynamic your content is
10:38:27  <Matt-W> And they're something of a nightmare when it comes to usability
10:38:44  <Qball> yep
10:38:59  <Matt-W> I can only think of one program I use which uses them
10:39:00  <Qball> slightly depending on situation, but in ttd, it's not needed
10:39:03  <Celestar> back
10:39:03  <Matt-W> And that's actually only by accident
10:39:07  <Celestar> I still cannot login :S
10:39:47  <Matt-W> Should probably worry more about broader design issues than how the list boxes will work first though :-)
10:40:12  <Qball> well, I wish you all goodluck :D
10:40:30  <Matt-W> Well I shall think about it
10:40:36  <Matt-W> I've got to finish a chapter for a book first though
10:40:45  <Matt-W> At least the code for that's done so shouldn't take me too much longer
10:41:00  <Qball> make some fancy uml-charts..
10:41:04  <Qball> object charts and stuff
10:41:10  <Qball> that will convince the dev's :D
10:41:23  <Matt-W> urgh uml
10:41:25  <Matt-W> yuck
10:41:28  <Fujitsu> It would be nice if it could all be done in C++, but I don't see that happening in the near future...
10:41:39  <Matt-W> well could write the GUI in C++
10:41:44  <Matt-W> should be possible
10:42:07  <Fujitsu> It would never be accepted.
10:42:11  <Matt-W> Exactly
10:42:16  <Fujitsu> I think OpenTTD would be well done as C++.
10:42:22  <Fujitsu> It is very suited to C++.
10:42:23  <Matt-W> Only if it was done well
10:42:30  <Matt-W> bad C++ is one of the most frightful things in the world
10:42:35  <Fujitsu> Yes.
10:42:44  <Matt-W> And you get even more compiler problems too
10:43:00  <Matt-W> So let's stick to C
10:43:02  <Matt-W> Good C is fine
10:43:02  <Fujitsu> C++ makes it harder to shoot yourself in the foot, but when you do, it blows your whole leg off.
10:43:14  <Matt-W> hahahaha
10:43:15  <Matt-W> yes
10:43:31  <Matt-W> Besides I could do with the C practice
10:43:56  <Matt-W> Doing C++ for a living tends to erode one's plain C skills
10:45:02  <Qball> you can code resonably object oriented in C.
10:45:13  <Matt-W> Oh yes
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10:45:17  <Matt-W> GTK+ proves that
10:45:20  <Qball> it just requires patience and strick policies
10:45:23  <Matt-W> It's a bit messy in places but it works very nicely
10:45:33  <Matt-W> And we don't need that level of sophistication
10:45:35  <Qball> yes,, Gobject system is nicely done
10:45:40  <Matt-W> (although I suppose if we really wanted to we could use GObject)
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10:46:20  <Matt-W> Not that we need to, but anything I do along these lines is likely to be influenced by it
10:47:42  <peter1138> hmm
10:47:59  <peter1138> our listboxes will always have items the same height
10:48:03  <peter1138> hmm!
10:48:13  <peter1138> smooth listbox scrolling might be possible?
10:48:25  <Matt-W> it's possible with variable-height items
10:48:30  <Matt-W> so definitely possible yes
10:48:38  <Qball> should be to hard
10:48:51  <Qball> you just need to be able to rnder x% of a row
10:48:53  <peter1138> well, drawing just the bit of the box that's needed may be an issue
10:48:58  <peter1138> i don't think there's any cropping stuff
10:49:08  <Matt-W> then we can write some
10:49:12  <peter1138> windows can draw outside themselves :(
10:49:30  <peter1138> i think cropping is needed, even without smooth scrolling
10:49:34  <Matt-W> yes
10:49:48  <peter1138> hmm, wrong word. i don't mean smooth scrolling, i mean non-discrete scrolling
10:49:52  <Matt-W> only way that immediately comes to mind to do that is a sort of double-buffering/compositing model
10:50:03  <peter1138> hmm
10:50:03  <Matt-W> but that eats memory like crazy
10:50:07  <peter1138> slower :(
10:50:11  <Matt-W> yes
10:50:14  <Matt-W> I'm sure there's another way
10:50:16  <Qball> it might be little resourcefull to check any rendering for fitting.
10:50:29  <peter1138> Qball: cropping, yes
10:50:34  *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-83-100-202-191.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
10:50:38  <Matt-W> Will have to read up on this sort of graphics programming
10:50:48  <peter1138> Matt-W: the actually drawing routines could implement bounds checking, i suppose?
10:50:53  <Matt-W> peter1138: yes
10:51:01  <Qball> peter1138: but it won't come cheap
10:51:09  <peter1138> -ly
10:51:24  <peter1138> mmm, might be cheaper to use a separate store, heh
10:51:26  <Matt-W> few things come cheaply, unfortunatley
10:51:39  <peter1138> are you interested in doing this?
10:51:48  <peter1138> i'm thinking an svn branch would be a good idea if so
10:52:25  <Matt-W> oh yes
10:52:32  <Matt-W> I'm interested
10:52:49  <Matt-W> an svn branch and a wiki page would be handy too
10:53:03  <Sacro> morning all
10:53:05  <Matt-W> and preferably no clueless non-coders hassling us about it all the time
10:53:15  <peter1138> wiki page is no problem :)
10:53:41  <Matt-W> will try and do something designy or codey soon
10:53:49  <Matt-W> since none of you have any idea if I can actually program or not...
10:53:58  <peter1138> 4hehe
10:54:07  <Matt-W> Just turn up, replace the gui system...
10:54:26  <peter1138> well, as long as you can follow our coding guidelines
10:54:30  <Matt-W> small-scale proof of concept stuff first
10:54:34  <peter1138> and break them when we do ;)
10:54:44  <Matt-W> if I can learn to follow my former employer's coding style, I'm sure I can handle yours
10:55:04  <peter1138> mind you, even bjarni can't follow ours...
10:55:06  <Matt-W> I have read the thing about it, only bits of it make me want to shout and scream
10:55:18  <Matt-W> some of it's what I do anyway
10:55:30  <Matt-W> Just have to remember things like the FunctionNamingRules
10:55:47  <Matt-W> as I'm usually a lowercase_with_underscores person
10:56:17  <peter1138> heh
10:56:30  <peter1138> nothing a regex can't fix
10:56:42  <Matt-W> True, but easier to just write it correctly to start with
10:56:45  * SpComb IsA mixed_person
10:56:55  <SpComb> in different places, of course
10:56:57  <SpComb> consistent
10:57:12  <Qball> peter1138: your coding style is lack of coding style
10:57:27  <SpComb> ooh, personal insults
10:57:33  <Qball> and you are very consistent with that
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10:57:39  <Qball> your -> ottd dev's :D
10:58:39  <Matt-W> I must admit that your commenting policy is... umm...
10:58:42  <Matt-W> well...
10:58:51  <Qball> but I will admit, my (lack) of coding style is worse :D
10:59:07  <Matt-W> much less commenty than mine
11:00:25  *** blazzaj [n=not@] has joined #openttd
11:00:28  <blazzaj> hello all
11:00:32  <Sacro> hello
11:00:36  <Matt-W> hello
11:00:41  <blazzaj> open ttd is soooo great :)
11:01:08  <Matt-W> It's okay
11:01:14  <Matt-W> Could be better though :-P
11:01:18  <Qball> yes, it's fine
11:01:23  <blazzaj> also the fact that the game is alive after all these years and has so many players is amazing
11:01:36  <Matt-W> Well I think that's down to it being the software equivalent of crack
11:01:55  <Qball> :D
11:01:56  <blazzaj> yeah, it gets you hooked
11:02:00  <Matt-W> Oh yes
11:02:05  <Matt-W> And it contains the ability to warp time
11:02:19  <peter1138> i forget to put { on a newline for functions sometimes
11:02:22  <Qball> if you hit caps-lock it gives funny colors too.
11:02:24  <peter1138> one got missed in engine_newgrf.c :)
11:02:34  <Matt-W> peter1138: shocking!
11:02:38  <peter1138> i know!
11:02:43  * Matt-W does that too
11:02:48  * Qball gathers a mob
11:02:55  <peter1138> Qball: it's a debug feature, heh
11:03:00  <Matt-W> Qball: with pitchforks?
11:03:07  <Qball> Matt-W: offcourse
11:03:12  <Qball> peter1138: I know
11:03:14  <Matt-W> One thing I was wondering
11:03:20  <Qball> peter1138: still crack like colors
11:03:28  <Matt-W> Does the UNIX version have to intercept Ctrl-Alt-arrow keys?
11:03:41  <peter1138> ?
11:03:41  <Matt-W> As it's impossible to task switch out of it on my system
11:03:49  <peter1138> that's sdl, i think
11:03:54  <Matt-W> can't use ctrl-alt-arrow to change desktop, or alt-tab to change window
11:04:00  <Matt-W> hmmm
11:04:03  <peter1138> it stops my volume/media keys too :(
11:04:06  <Matt-W> irritating
11:04:13  <Matt-W> wonder if there's a way round that
11:04:14  <Sacro> what about ctrl-alt-f something?
11:04:24  <Matt-W> that'd drop out of X though
11:04:39  <Sacro> ah right, change desktop not tty
11:04:43  <Matt-W> yes
11:04:48  <Matt-W> to get at my music player :-)
11:04:50  <blazzaj> the refresh rate in the full screen mode in windows is kinda irritating :/ it hurts my eyes..
11:05:06  <Qball> works here
11:05:07  <peter1138> blazzaj: you can change it
11:05:09  <Sacro> i cant even remember why im in windows
11:05:13  <Qball> mmedia keys
11:05:21  <peter1138> in openttd.cfg
11:05:23  <peter1138> [win32]
11:05:27  <peter1138> display_hz = ...
11:05:31  <Matt-W> Actually I play OpenTTD in Windows, but poke the code on Linux. Odd.
11:05:34  <blazzaj> oh ok
11:05:38  <Qball> ctrl-alt-left|right also still works
11:05:52  <peter1138> heh
11:05:52  <blazzaj> because in the menus there was only the option to change resolution and not refresh
11:05:59  <peter1138> yeah, it's not a gui option
11:06:17  <peter1138> i guess the resolution list would break the 32 item limit of dropdown boxes
11:06:29  <Matt-W> peter1138: that's a limit we'll have to do away with
11:06:29  <peter1138> (that's another thing the new gui should fix... 32 item limits on everything)
11:06:31  <peter1138> hehe
11:06:48  * Matt-W makes a wiki account
11:07:09  <peter1138> i guess each widget should have its own state flag, instead of click_state / disabled_state / hidden_state being a bitmask
11:07:26  <blazzaj> display hz is 0 now is that like default or something?
11:07:29  <peter1138> yes
11:07:32  <blazzaj> ok
11:07:34  <peter1138> set to 85 or whatever
11:07:52  <Qball> look at what the screen supports irst
11:07:52  <blazzaj> cool it works
11:07:58  <blazzaj> yeah i set it to 85
11:08:34  <Matt-W> So if anybody's got permission to edit the development page on the wiki, can we get a page for gui redevelopment?
11:08:51  <Sacro> its a wiki, cant anyone get permission?
11:09:02  <Matt-W> that page appears to be restricted edits
11:09:15  <Matt-W> at least, I don't have an edit button
11:09:58  <blazzaj> how was open ttd possible? was it made from scratch or were the original sources made public by the author?
11:10:11  <Matt-W> It's done from scratch, as I understand it
11:10:24  <Qball> reversed engenering
11:10:55  <blazzaj> well actually the best part of open ttd is the multiplayer. and of course the portability to many platforms
11:11:15  <Sacro> it has many advantages
11:11:20  <Matt-W> I've never tried multiplayer... I do love being able to run it on my linux-powered laptop on the train though
11:11:56  <Matt-W> although it's not easy to build nice rail layouts when using a touchpad on a bumpy train
11:12:12  <Fujitsu> No. It's not :(
11:13:01  <Matt-W> that's not OpenTTD's fault though
11:13:08  <Fujitsu> No.
11:13:09  <blazzaj> well it's my first time here but it's great to see so many people :)
11:13:21  <peter1138> heh
11:13:33  <peter1138> Matt-W: just create a new page
11:13:36  <peter1138> it can be linked later
11:13:42  <Matt-W> peter1138: okay
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11:19:17  <blazzaj> someone did the Romanian translations pretty well; are there any guys from Romania here?
11:19:44  *** Fujitsu [] has quit ["Bye all."]
11:21:16  <Sacro> not sure
11:23:08  * Qball is listening to Haskell, Gordon - Please Don't Try To Talk To Me
11:24:08  <Aankhen``> What a beautiful song. :-D
11:24:40  * Sacro is listeing to Fleetwood Mac - Go Your Own Way
11:25:43  * Matt-W is not listening to anything because the battery in his iPod is flat as he forgot to charge it
11:27:52  * FauxFaux is listening to Axwell - Feel the Vibe in his head because he doesn't have any headphones :(
11:28:02  <Celestar> ok I'm back
11:28:09  <Celestar> samba seems to work now \o/
11:28:19  * Matt-W now has Fleetwood Mac in his head
11:28:40  <Matt-W> Which is, it has to be said, infinitely preferable to... well, most of what's in the charts
11:30:13  <Matt-W> anyway
11:30:16  <Matt-W> well
11:30:20  <Matt-W> spelt correctly!
11:31:41  <FauxFaux>
11:31:47  <FauxFaux> For anyone else who likes clickies ;p
11:31:53  <Matt-W> yeah that's it
11:31:56  * Matt-W uses wikipedia too much
11:32:25  <Matt-W> and so I tend to assume all other mediawiki sides have the same rewrite rules
11:32:31  <blazzaj> ooh ttdpatch has trams!
11:32:34  <blazzaj> :)
11:35:41  <Sacro> yeah, it does
11:36:14  <peter1138> heh
11:36:19  <peter1138> yes
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11:36:48  <peter1138> Matt-W: good start :)
11:36:53  <Sacro> "can you hear me calling out your name, you know ive fallen and i dont know what to say"
11:36:57  <Matt-W> peter1138: I need to play with code
11:36:59  * Sacro sings along to fleetwood mac
11:37:03  <Matt-W> try some things out
11:37:09  <Matt-W> will keep the page updated as I go
11:37:12  <peter1138> cool
11:37:18  <Matt-W> then at some point... patches
11:37:22  <Matt-W> and stuff to put into an SVN branch
11:37:35  <Matt-W> but the branch doesn't really need to be done yet
11:38:06  <Matt-W> obviously I'm keen for people to help :-)
11:38:26  <Matt-W> But I'd rather not show the initial horrible experiments to the general public...
11:38:36  <Matt-W> that's pure vanity really
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11:39:01  <Sacro> horrible experiments? hmm
11:39:02  *** Tron_ [] has joined #openttd
11:41:39  <Sacro> Bjarni seems to be making a name for himself on qdb
11:42:12  *** Spoco [] has joined #openttd
11:45:02  <Matt-W> Sacro: yes, horrible experiments
11:47:05  <peter1138> hehe
11:47:19  <Celestar> hm ..
11:47:28  <Celestar> if a vehicle doesn't have a slot, what about just slowing it down?
11:47:33  <Celestar> instead of stupping?
11:47:36  <peter1138> i thought about that
11:47:42  <peter1138> might work :)
11:47:59  <Celestar> but how much?
11:48:11  <Celestar> reverse proportional do the distace to the station?
11:48:22  <peter1138> try it? :)
11:48:29  <Celestar> will do, not today
11:48:31  <peter1138> *nod*
11:48:42  <peter1138> queueing in a depot would be nice, but then you need a depot near the station
11:52:28  <Sacro> hmm
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12:02:20  *** Jang- [] has joined #openttd
12:02:27  <Jang-> who's in charge of the wiki?
12:02:54  <SpComb> the community!
12:02:59  <SpComb> as it's a wiki
12:03:05  <Sacro> there is no head guy
12:03:06  <Jang-> yeah, but we need toblock some users
12:03:14  <Jang-> who's the admin
12:03:17  <Sacro> ah, the wiki admin
12:03:20  <SpComb> MiHaMiX, I thikn
12:03:22  <SpComb> not sure
12:03:27  <Sacro> yeah, i think its MiHaMiX
12:03:29  <Jang-> hmm, is he ever on?
12:03:42  <Sacro> well tab completion just worked
12:03:54  <Jang-> doesn't mean he's actually gonna respond
12:03:56  *** eQualizer [] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
12:04:05  <Sacro> MiHaMiX: anyone home?
12:04:14  <Jang-> i think we need to argue for much tighter controls.
12:04:20  <Sacro> Jang-: only one way to find out
12:04:24  <Jang-> unfortunately :(
12:04:24  <Sacro> yeah, maybe
12:04:35  <Jang-> everyday i end up deleting and rv spam
12:04:53  <SpComb> <div id="id02ab87f1f530d122d3a1be10f84a8efb" style="overflow:auto;height:1px;"> <-- ^^
12:04:56  <Jang-> and, it'll probably only get worse with more and more bots joining
12:05:01  <Jang-> exactly
12:05:18  <MiHaMiX> here
12:05:29  *** eQualizer [] has joined #openttd
12:05:30  <Jang-> hi MiHaMiX, how are you
12:05:58  <Jang-> the wiki is being spammed in a way that's difficult to control
12:06:15  <SpComb> oh if only google hadn't inventied to link thing :P
12:06:20  <SpComb> it's quite easy to contol
12:06:28  <SpComb> just kill off divs with a height of 1px
12:06:35  <SpComb> problem solved
12:06:39  <Jang-> in the php? is mediawiki in php?
12:06:42  <SpComb> yes
12:06:46  <Jang-> ah yea
12:06:48  <Sacro> id hope is isnt asp
12:06:54  <SpComb> there will probably be a patch out for it?
12:07:05  <SpComb> I mean, some nice antispam mod
12:07:14  <SpComb> you don't see that 1px div thing on the wikipedia
12:07:24  <SpComb> they were talking about interesting things
12:07:50  <SpComb> using javascript to calculate some kind of thing, so the sam bots would have to be able to interpert javascript, only a matter of time, but it would annoy them a bit :P
12:08:03  <Jang-> MiHaMiX: is it possible for you to take a quick look at implementing something to avoid this?
12:08:27  <SpComb> I'm sure there is something made against this
12:08:37  <Celestar> heya Jang-
12:09:08  <Jang-> hey Celestar, how are ya?
12:09:10  <MiHaMiX> Jang-: i'll update the wiki's source today to the newest one
12:09:16  <Jang-> thx MiHaMiX
12:09:21  <MiHaMiX> Jang-: and install some anti-spam features, too
12:09:26  <Jang-> would be good
12:09:49  <SpComb>
12:09:50  <MiHaMiX> Jang-: just before I start it, I make a big cup of coffee and drink it since I'm almost falling asleep :/
12:10:18  <Celestar> Jang-: no reason to complain.
12:10:22  <Celestar> what about you?
12:10:28  <Jang-> heh, i see your elrails is popular
12:10:30  <Jang-> same here
12:10:32  <Jang-> pretty so so
12:10:54  <Celestar> still have some elrail work to do
12:11:20  <MiHaMiX> yesterday night I couldn't sleep for some reason, and stayed up in the night too long
12:11:25  *** e1ko [] has joined #openttd
12:12:20  <Jang-> Ryanair gonna charge for baggage now
12:12:37  <Jang-> i expect they're the only ones in the world who'd bother
12:13:03  *** Singaporekid [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
12:13:12  <BurtyB> i think its more likely a trend
12:13:14  *** Singaporekid [] has joined #openttd
12:13:22  <Celestar> Jang-: others will follow, don't worry
12:13:31  <Jang-> heh, most probably
12:13:37  <Celestar> WEE!
12:13:41  <Celestar> Berlin gets a new airport
12:13:51  <Jang-> it does? what for?
12:14:16  <Celestar> to close the 3 crappy ones they operate now.
12:14:29  <Jang-> ah i see
12:14:33  <Patrick`> sooo...
12:14:38  <Patrick`> PBS I can deal without, but:
12:14:47  <Jang-> as long as it doesn't become commercially competitive :/
12:14:56  <Celestar> peter1138: we needa work on PBS :)
12:15:06  <Patrick`> signal autocompletion is a bit of a killer feature for me
12:15:15  <Celestar> peter1138: ?
12:15:17  <Celestar> Patrick`: ?
12:15:18  <Patrick`> and I lack the ability to update a patch
12:15:40  <Patrick`> soo ... if anyone knows if it's being maintained anywhere, I'd like to start using current revisions again
12:15:50  <Celestar> Patrick`: what exactly do you mean?
12:16:18  <Patrick`> Celestar: I don't want to clearly state my position because it'll sound like a pedantic "I want"
12:16:47  <Patrick`> but I want trunk + signal autocompletion + kickoff fix
12:17:01  <Patrick`> I suspect the kickoff fix patch will still apply after 900 revisions
12:17:09  <Celestar> what is the "kickoff fix" ?
12:17:19  <Patrick`> someone threw some ugly hack together
12:17:21  <Celestar> isn'T singal autocompletion in?
12:17:24  <Patrick`> Celestar: nope
12:17:40  <ln-> Patrick` is back? cool, i still have him on ignore. ;)
12:17:41  <Sacro> it should be
12:17:41  <peter1138> hmm?
12:17:56  <Patrick`> kickoff - train gets green signal, train inexplicably waits 1 second to simulate realism
12:18:00  <Celestar> peter1138: we should work out a todo ist :)
12:18:05  <peter1138> yes
12:18:11  <Patrick`> it also totally destroyed the dynamics of my networks and it's why I stopped playing
12:18:13  <Celestar> ok lets start.
12:18:31  <peter1138> signal completion: is there a patch for this? hackykid left everything in the lurch and i don't know if there's a source for his stuff
12:18:53  <Patrick`> well, I still have all his patches from t'old days
12:18:56  <Celestar> Patrick`: where is that kickoff fix?
12:19:01  <Patrick`> Celestar: in my ~
12:19:07  <peter1138> kickoff fix: i'm currently working on the physics acceleration patch which should fix this, and include TE and air drag
12:19:09  <Patrick`> I think either _Luca_ or peter1138 wrote it
12:19:15  <Patrick`> then it'd be peters
12:19:19  <peter1138> Celestar: the kick off fix is a revert of a previous bug fix
12:19:23  <Patrick`> the one i have is apparently a "ghastly hack"
12:19:27  <peter1138> if you apply the kick off fix, you'll get stuck trains again
12:19:33  <Patrick`> ah.
12:19:34  <Celestar> peter1138: the current acceleration takes into account TE :)
12:19:50  <peter1138> no it doesn't :)
12:19:55  <Patrick`> all I know is I downloaded 0.4.5 and trains *still* waited a second for no reason
12:20:09  <Celestar> didn't I ever commit that?!
12:20:23  <Patrick`> way to go.
12:20:27  <Patrick`> ^_^
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12:20:41  <peter1138> this physics patch implements slowing down in a nice way too
12:20:41  <Celestar> .oO(Steam engines being constant force, diesel and electric constant power)
12:20:43  <Patrick`> anyway, I'll get a build enviroment set up this evening and get back into the swing of things
12:20:46  <peter1138> so i'll see how that goes
12:20:51  <Celestar> peter1138: any ETA?
12:20:55  <Patrick`> autocompletion I suppose I can do without
12:20:57  <peter1138> Celestar: tonight
12:21:05  <Patrick`> as long as I only build straight tracks
12:21:07  <peter1138> Patrick`: supply the patch for autocomplete and we'll look at it
12:21:08  <Celestar> peter1138: great :)
12:21:12  <peter1138> i have no idea where it went to
12:21:26  <Patrick`> peter1138: so did hackykid + hackykid's FTP just vanish?
12:21:29  <peter1138> yes
12:21:38  <Patrick`> crikey :/
12:21:40  <Sacro> peter1138: its part of the integrated nightly
12:21:46  <peter1138> that's no use either :P
12:21:53  <Celestar> part of the what?
12:21:56  <Patrick`> I think his patch had autocompletion plus some other features, possibly PBS
12:22:03  <Patrick`> I only have up to r3005
12:22:13  <peter1138> yeah, we need to apply them in small chunks, heh
12:22:13  <Patrick`> but I'll stick it online this evening when I get home
12:22:23  <Celestar> Patrick`: great.
12:22:23  <peter1138> cheers
12:22:25  <Sacro> Patrick`: it does have PBS, but you can just download the seperate working patches
12:22:35  <Patrick`> Sacro: yeah, I remember that
12:22:45  <Celestar> Darkvater: Tron_ peter1138 we needa find out what to do with PBS.
12:23:17  <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: are you SOOO impatient?
12:23:25  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: give me updates :)
12:23:30  <Patrick`> peter1138: in fact, I remember that bug
12:23:40  <KUDr_wrk> what updates?
12:23:40  <Patrick`> peter1138: so was an alternate fix ever developed?
12:24:49  <Patrick`> also: I'm a proper python programmer now, written my first class-based library and all
12:25:02  <SpComb> with indented code?
12:25:11  <Patrick`> you know it
12:25:26  <Patrick`> and no damn semicolons;
12:25:43  <SpComb> semicolons are awesome
12:25:59  <Tron> what is going on today? i was away for lunch and now the backlog is longer than my arm!
12:26:05  <Patrick`> Tron: me
12:26:18  <Patrick`> it's like "woah, look out compiler, I'm about to put a newline just after this symbol!"
12:26:40  <Patrick`> yadda yadda whitespace should be agnostic so you can justify code, but it just ends up looking ass either way
12:27:05  <Prof_Frink> whitespace is awesome
12:27:12  <Prof_Frink> The language, that is
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12:28:11  <Patrick`> favourite language ever:
12:28:13  <Patrick`>
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12:28:43  <Patrick`> oh, and
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12:29:13  <Sacro> hehe, dangermouse
12:29:38  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: what'S the status of PBS?
12:29:48  <Jang-> bruck, most likely
12:30:13  <Sacro> Patrick`: that language looks...simple
12:30:15  <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: PBS is waiting for new PF, PF is in progress
12:30:30  <Patrick`> Sacro: it compiles quickly.
12:31:05  <Eddi|zuHause> HQ9+ is cool ;)
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12:31:18  <Celestar> I see
12:31:19  <Sacro> well it looks like it does the job
12:31:27  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: what's the problem with current PF?
12:31:42  <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: which one you mean?
12:32:05  <Celestar> both of them :)
12:32:07  <KUDr_wrk> NPF is too slow, NTP is unusable for PBS
12:33:40  <Jang-> why do i get told off for using "==" when i'm equating something in english?
12:33:50  <Jang-> surely "==" is more logical than "="
12:34:10  <Patrick`> logic has nothing to do with english
12:34:22  <Sacro> if you want logic, german is better ive found
12:35:55  <Eddi|zuHause> Jang-: the person that told you off clearly was no programmer ;)
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12:38:05  <Jang-> i think you're right
12:38:20  <Jang-> but i managed to teach him some php once, so he at least knew what i meant
12:40:44  <Sacro> php is a  nice language
12:40:59  <Sacro> except i dont trust, $$foo, or $foo()
12:41:49  <BurtyB> its a useful feature :)
12:42:54  <BurtyB> I like being able to do ${$conf[0]}=$conf[1];
12:43:04  <MiHaMiX> BurtyB: hi
12:43:11  <BurtyB> moo MiHaMiX
12:43:19  <MiHaMiX> apt-get moo :)
12:44:09  <MiHaMiX> okay, i've drank the coffee, so i'll stop the wiki for an hour or so
12:51:47  <Matt-W> well if you speak to a mathematician they seem to prefer = for comparison and := for assignment
12:52:44  <Kalpa> I thought they tend to say "Let x be y" or similar :>
12:52:45  <Noldo> Matt-W: nice generalisation
12:52:48  <Prof_Frink> MiHaMiX: aptitude moo
12:53:20  <Matt-W> Noldo: just in my experience of the people in my department who came from maths backgrounds rather than from computer science
12:53:23  <MiHaMiX> Prof_Frink: There are no Easter Eggs in this program.
12:53:32  <Prof_Frink> MiHaMiX: aptitude -v moo
12:53:51  <MiHaMiX> There really are no Easter Eggs in this program.
12:53:53  <MiHaMiX> :D
12:53:57  <Prof_Frink> MiHaMiX: aptitude -vv moo
12:54:01  <Matt-W> Perhaps we should add some
12:54:04  <MiHaMiX> aptitude -vv moo
12:54:04  <MiHaMiX> Didn't I already tell you that there are no Easter Eggs in this program?
12:54:10  <Kalpa> MiHaMiX: Shaddap.
12:54:10  <Prof_Frink> Keep going...
12:54:17  <MiHaMiX> aptitude -vvv moo
12:54:17  <MiHaMiX> Stop it!
12:54:19  <Noldo> Matt-W: that's not the same as any mathematician
12:54:30  <Matt-W> Noldo: no, but they're the only mathematician-like people I know
12:54:42  <Matt-W> It was a bad thing to say
12:54:42  <Prof_Frink> More!
12:54:44  <Matt-W> Please forgive me
12:55:01  <MiHaMiX> Prof_Frink: lol :DD -vvvvvv :D
12:55:18  <Prof_Frink> :p
12:56:13  <blazzaj> :)
12:56:36  <MiHaMiX> is wiki accessible from you?
12:59:39  <MiHaMiX> ok, seems not
13:00:52  <Eddi|zuHause> [16.03. 13:54] <Matt-W> well if you speak to a mathematician they seem to prefer = for comparison and := for assignment <- yes, i do that also, but usually these people do not complain (much) about the usage of == ;)
13:02:02  <Noldo> Matt-W: you are forgiven
13:02:31  <Noldo> Matt-W: I wonder if fortran has :=
13:03:16  <Jang-> fortran != real language
13:03:17  <Jang-> :)
13:03:48  <Celestar> fortran has "="
13:03:52  <Celestar> for assignments
13:04:34  <Tron> peter1138: ?
13:05:11  <Noldo> Jang-: I've heard it's quite used when doing mathemathics related stuff
13:05:38  <Tron> does somebody else think that rail.c:136 is wrong?
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13:06:13  <peter1138> hmm?
13:06:34  <Tron> peter1138: rail.c:136, i think something is wrong there, do you agree?
13:06:52  <Eddi|zuHause> i believe which one of these you prefer more depends on what language you learned first than what background you came from
13:07:16  * Tron worhsips the bebecomes
13:07:46  <Tron> s/worhsips/worships/
13:08:06  <Matt-W> fortran was good once...
13:08:11  <Matt-W> but better languages have taken over
13:08:23  <Matt-W> still a lot of legacy code going on in it though
13:08:38  <Celestar> ............if ((_m[tile].m5 & 0xC0) == 0xC0 && (_m[tile].m5 & 0x1U) != (exitdir & 0x1))
13:08:38  <peter1138> hmm
13:08:41  <Celestar> this one?
13:08:46  <Rubidium> Tron what would be wrong there?
13:08:47  <peter1138> it doesn't check if it's actually rail there?
13:08:58  <Tron> < Matt-W> but better languages have taken over <-- Cobol hasn't lost its predomination to Fortran yet...
13:09:11  <Matt-W> only due to legacy stuff
13:09:14  <Tron> Celestar: yes
13:09:21  <Matt-W> Nobody would seriously consider writing a new system in COBOL, surely
13:09:30  <Tron> Rubidium: it only checks if it's a bridge middle part
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13:09:43  <Celestar> Tron: the mask is wrongo?
13:10:17  <Tron> Matt-W: that doesn't matter. most lines worldwide are still cobol. so most maintanance is invested in cobol code
13:10:43  <Tron> Matt-W: this might probably change within the next ten years
13:10:43  <Kalpa> What cobol were who why
13:10:58  <Matt-W> Tron: it's not my domain, so I don't ever have to look at it
13:10:59  <Tron> Matt-W: by then Fortran will be the language with the most deployed lines of code
13:11:12  <Matt-W> I concern myself with languages which haven't even been designed yet
13:11:31  <Celestar> Tron: again, you assume the mask of 0xC0 is faulty?
13:11:44  <Tron> Matt-W: oh, i doubt Fortran has ever been designed ^^
13:12:05  <Tron> Celestar: yes, i think it should also check if there's rail under the bridge
13:12:05  <Matt-W> Tron: oh on some level all languages are designed. otherwise they become unparsable
13:12:13  <Celestar> Tron: that might be not bad an idea
13:12:29  <Celestar> I'm also not sure what the "U" is doing behind a hex number?
13:12:42  <Kalpa> :D
13:12:59  <Tron> Celestar: U (or u) designates a integer literal as unsigned
13:13:02  <Celestar> Matt-W: fortran IS unparsable :)
13:13:13  <Matt-W> Celestar: it's more parsable than Perl 5
13:13:26  <Celestar> Tron: I know, but aren't 0x numbers unsigned by default?
13:13:27  <Tron> ABAP/4
13:13:31  <Matt-W> And yet Perl 5 is actually a better language to code in. How odd.
13:13:38  <Tron> _that_'s unparsable
13:13:47  <Tron> the complete spec is a 700 pages book
13:14:05  <Matt-W> Big !=> unparsable
13:14:24  <Celestar> unknown operator !=>
13:14:28  <Noldo> :)
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13:14:38  <Matt-W> 'does not imply'
13:14:50  <Tron> you need to entangle syntactic and semantic analysis to parse it correctly
13:14:51  <Matt-W> \not\Rightarrow if you know LaTeX
13:15:09  <Noldo> Matt-W: what is the truth value table of that?
13:15:11  <Tron> that's really ugly
13:15:27  <Celestar> I know :P
13:15:30  <Matt-W> Noldo: take the truth table for implication and invert it
13:15:39  <Matt-W> I think
13:15:43  <Matt-W> you know what I meant anyway!
13:16:01  <Tron> F F -> T
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13:16:06  <Tron> F T -> T
13:16:08  <Matt-W> My head's still spinning from this description logics example that keeps talking about cheesy pizzas
13:16:10  <Tron> T F -> F
13:16:13  <Tron> T T -> T
13:16:15  <Tron> is implication
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13:17:05  <Celestar> Tron: peter1138: RFC =>
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13:19:40  <Tron> Celestar: wouldn't the vehicle immediatly accerlate again?
13:19:54  <Tron> peter1138: do you think that line in rail.c is wrong, too?
13:20:17  <Celestar> Tron: yes but is slows down enough.
13:20:36  <Celestar> Tron: it's work-in-progress, but would you prefer such an approach over the current one?
13:21:19  <Tron> Celestar: my main concern is setting VS_STOPPED, so it's an improvement in my book
13:22:15  <Celestar> Tron: ok, will continue
13:23:49  <CIA-5> tron * r3905 /trunk/rail.c: -Fix: When returning the rail type under a bridge, check if there are rails at all
13:25:37  <peter1138> hmm
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13:25:50  <Sacro> hmm
13:26:02  <Tron> peter1138: is something wrong with this commit?
13:26:07  <peter1138> no
13:26:23  <peter1138> i was about to say it's not actually wrong, it just doesn't check enough
13:26:26  <peter1138> but it does now :)
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13:26:49  <MiHaMiX> ok
13:26:58  <MiHaMiX> it seems to me wiki is working
13:27:02  <MiHaMiX> i'll open it soon
13:27:08  <MiHaMiX> just the final touches :)
13:28:34  <Matt-W> yay
13:28:59  <Celestar> BAH
13:29:08  <Celestar> v->max_speed is given in WHAT units?!
13:29:21  <peter1138> :)
13:29:32  <Celestar> fathems per forthnight?
13:29:38  <Celestar> -h
13:29:39  <peter1138> divide by two
13:29:45  <peter1138> 127 is the max spee,d
13:29:48  <peter1138> -,
13:30:05  <Tron> Celestar: what's fatem?
13:30:21  <Tron> don't you mean "furlong"?
13:30:30  <peter1138> fornights per furlong
13:30:44  <Matt-W> I assumed Celestar meant 'fathom'
13:30:45  <Tron> the other way round is a velocity unit
13:31:04  <Celestar> fortnight is a unit of time
13:31:07  <Sacro> fathoms per fortnight?
13:31:13  <Celestar> fathoms is a unit of distance
13:31:23  <Sacro> so how long does a league take?
13:31:24  <Matt-W> fathom == 6 feet, I think
13:31:28  <Celestar> so fathoms per fortnight is a velocity.
13:31:30  <Matt-W> a league is three miles
13:31:34  <Matt-W> generally
13:31:46  <Matt-W> umm, isn't it speed?
13:31:51  <Matt-W> doesn't velocity require a direction?
13:31:53  <Sacro> but then how long is a mile
13:32:00  <Tron> oh, i'm quite exactly 1 fathom tall
13:32:12  <Sacro> yes, velocity = speed in a set direction
13:32:18  <Matt-W> a mile is some pointless difficult-to-remember number of yards
13:32:31  <Matt-W> 1760 yards, in fact
13:32:31  <Sacro> varies between countries
13:32:32  <Prof_Frink> 1760 I think...
13:32:35  <Celestar> 1760
13:32:41  <Sacro> 1760 :P
13:32:47  <Prof_Frink> woot
13:32:56  <Sacro> what about a nautical mile
13:32:58  <Celestar> 12 inch in a foot, 3 feet in a yard 1760 yards in a statue mile.
13:33:05  <Prof_Frink> statute*
13:33:10  <Matt-W> miles are silly
13:33:14  <Matt-W> I'm used to them, but they're silly
13:33:24  <Celestar> Sacro: a nautical mile is the distance of 1 arc-minute at the equator
13:33:30  <Celestar> 1852m
13:33:30  <BurtyB> miles are in use daily :)
13:33:31  <Sacro> yup
13:33:32  <Prof_Frink> Yeah, we should work in light-aeons
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13:33:52  *** Singaporekid [] has quit [":o"]
13:33:52  <Matt-W> Although I'm not quite sure if the proposal to switch to metric signage before the olympics is a good one or not
13:34:03  <Sacro> what? in london?
13:34:04  <MiHaMiX> okay, wiki opened to public again
13:34:05  <BurtyB> god no
13:34:16  <Matt-W> Sacro: across the UK
13:34:22  <Matt-W> Someone decided it would be a good idea
13:34:24  <Sacro> noooooooooooo, i like miles
13:34:25  * BurtyB wants to keep miles
13:34:29  <Matt-W> It's silly though
13:34:34  <Prof_Frink> As long as the temperature in the underworld is > 273K, it won't happen.
13:34:41  <BurtyB> I also wanted us to keep lb but they didnt like that idea either
13:34:43  <Matt-W> yeah it does seem unlikely
13:34:46  <Sacro> but then again, i read the speed on the sign, double it, and then do that in km
13:34:51  <Matt-W> BurtyB: well you can still order stuff in shops in lb
13:35:08  <Sacro> i cant understand imperial measurements
13:35:17  <Celestar> 453.6 gramms
13:35:19  <BurtyB> Matt-W, i dont like the way the law says you have to sell in kg
13:35:23  <Matt-W> imperial measurements are great for things like cooking
13:35:27  <Matt-W> as they're practical units
13:35:37  <CIA-5> tron * r3906 /trunk/tunnelbridge_cmd.c: Before removing a rail/setting the owner of a road to none check if there's a transport route at all under the bridge
13:35:42  <Prof_Frink> They're good for estimates too
13:35:44  <Matt-W> but metric's much easier to manipulate
13:35:49  <Matt-W> I think we need both systems
13:36:06  <Matt-W> but selling stuff in kg is fine by me, very sensible, as long as the conversion to lb is accurate
13:36:10  <Sacro> i tend to use both metric and imperial when measuring lenghts, depends which rounds easiest
13:36:12  <BurtyB> imperial is UK history though .. i think peeps should be taught it
13:36:23  <Sacro> we where in maths
13:36:25  <Matt-W> I like to cook in imperial
13:36:29  <Matt-W> but new cookbooks are all metric
13:36:36  <Qball> I like to cook in the kitchen
13:36:39  <Matt-W> but imperial units go well with things like the sizes of eggs
13:37:04  <Matt-W> and it's easy to remember things like 2oz per egg white for meringues
13:37:19  <Sacro> simple batter mix too
13:37:25  <Matt-W> nah I do batter by eye
13:37:37  <Matt-W> with the aid of a tablespoon
13:37:38  <Matt-W> but very rough
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13:38:01  <Prof_Frink> I sure as hell ain't gonna ask for 568.261485ml of beer
13:38:06  <Sacro> i went to tesco to buy a set of scales, and the damn idiots marked the 1lb section into 10
13:38:10  <Matt-W> :-o
13:38:18  <Matt-W> but....but....
13:38:20  <Matt-W> that's WRONG
13:38:22  <Sacro> Prof_Frink: round up to a litre then
13:38:39  <Matt-W> lol
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13:38:50  <BurtyB> would be nice if you could actually buy a pint of beer and not a pint-head tho
13:38:52  <Matt-W> buying beer in litres means fewer trips to the bar
13:39:04  <Prof_Frink> Matt-W: That what rounds are for
13:39:05  <Sacro> Matt-W: but more to the toilet
13:39:09  <Matt-W> BurtyB: that's an old argument
13:39:22  <Matt-W> Sacro: not necessarily, doesn't mean you have to drink more if you were goin gto drink > 1 litre anyway
13:39:46  <BurtyB> Matt-W indeed, i still dont see how they can charge for what must be >50% gas as beer
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13:40:15  <Prof_Frink> BurtyB: Go to a better pub
13:40:24  <Matt-W> BurtyB: I'm not a beer person, but I understand that decent beer has few bubbles and little head in it
13:40:42  <BurtyB> Prof_Frink sadly its the law that the head is included in the pint
13:41:10  <Prof_Frink> but, if you think the head is excessive you can ask for a top up
13:41:25  <BurtyB> indeed and i do.. tho its still wank
13:41:42  <Sacro> in your pint? id move pubs
13:41:56  <Matt-W> I'd drink something less controversial that tastes better
13:42:56  <Sacro> a nice hot cup of tea
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13:47:54  <Sacro> its gone all quiet
13:48:17  *** Xeryus|bed is now known as XeryusTC
13:48:36  <Matt-W> yeah I accidentally did some work
13:48:52  <Sacro> im researching using stunnel with vnc
13:56:13  <MiHaMiX> someone please check wiki whether it's working
13:56:18  <Sacro> linkage?
13:56:30  <Matt-W> worky worky
13:56:54  <MiHaMiX> ok, thanks
13:56:55  <Sacro> looking good here
13:57:41  <MiHaMiX> nice, thanks guys :)
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14:01:45  <Celestar> why is "IsLevelCrossing" in rail.h ?
14:01:52  <Sacro> why not
14:02:07  <Celestar> it belongs in road_map.[ch]
14:02:09  <peter1138> because it seemed like a good place for it
14:02:14  <peter1138> but it should be moved now
14:02:24  <glx> levelcrossing is a road tile
14:02:46  <Sacro> but its also a rail tile
14:03:05  <glx> but when IsLevelCrossing was added, only rail.h was present
14:03:22  <peter1138> Sacro: it's a road tile in the game
14:03:34  <Sacro> peter1138: oh right
14:03:39  <Celestar> tile type is MP_STREET
14:03:41  <Jang-> MiHaMiX: cheers!
14:04:10  <Celestar> .oO(why MP_STREET when it is referred to as "road" is beyond me. same with MP_RAILWAY for railroad) :)
14:04:17  <Sacro> hmm
14:04:21  <peter1138> RAILWAY is correct :P
14:04:24  <peter1138> railroad... urgh
14:05:07  <MiHaMiX> Jang-: :)
14:05:46  <Jang-> these germans! they don't know english
14:05:52  <Jang-> ;)
14:06:00  <MiHaMiX> :DDD
14:06:01  <Celestar> I prefer RAILWAY as well, but I prefer consistency even more :)
14:06:25  <Celestar> peter1138 tron RFC:
14:06:30  <Jang-> if everyone used railway, then the world would be a happier place
14:06:32  <Jang-> (slightly)
14:06:54  *** Sacro [n=root@adsl-83-100-202-191.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"]
14:07:04  <Celestar> "out" ancestor was called Railroad Tycoon not Railway Tycoon
14:07:09  <Celestar> s/out/our
14:07:19  <Jang-> true
14:07:40  <Jang-> but, things move on
14:08:08  <peter1138> Celestar: should a waiting vehicle stop running costs too?
14:08:18  <peter1138> (i think it shouldn't)
14:08:20  <Celestar> peter1138: no the driver is in and the engine is running.
14:08:51  <Celestar> :P
14:09:05  <peter1138> woo, it compiled
14:09:05  <Celestar> plus running costs should be by distance (mostly) :S
14:09:11  <peter1138> train physics acceleration
14:09:11  <Celestar> "it" ?
14:09:20  <Matt-W> woo
14:09:23  <Celestar> peter1138: I hope you refrain from using the FPU.
14:09:26  <peter1138> rewritten quite a bit
14:09:29  <peter1138> Celestar: it's all ints
14:09:40  <Celestar> \o/
14:09:54  <Noldo> Celestar: why is that important?
14:10:06  <Celestar> Noldo: because of inter-platform desync problems.
14:10:18  <Matt-W> floating point tends to come out different on different platforms
14:10:26  <Matt-W> isn't fun
14:10:27  <Celestar> even a PIII might round differently than a P4
14:10:34  <Noldo> Celestar: rright
14:10:36  <peter1138> hmm, what about int rounding? hehe
14:10:41  <Matt-W> it's best avoided all the time, to be honest
14:10:48  <Celestar> peter1138: 2 is 2 on most platforms.
14:10:51  <Celestar> Matt-W: impossible.
14:11:10  <Celestar> Matt-W: I do CFD, not good without FPUs :)
14:11:11  <Matt-W> Celestar: yes, but if one programs with that philosophy in mind, one won't use it unnecessarily :-)
14:11:38  <peter1138> yeah
14:11:58  <Celestar> I've seen people using doubles as loop iterators...
14:12:03  <peter1138> well someone did write a realistic acceleration model using floats and wondered why we thought it a bad idea...
14:12:19  <peter1138> Celestar: heh, i've got some code here that mixes strings and doubles o_O
14:12:22  <peter1138> handling currency
14:12:23  <Celestar> peter1138: as long as everything is power of 2 :P
14:12:36  <Celestar> why do I need doubles for currency?!
14:12:36  <peter1138> it's vb, though
14:12:51  <Celestar> peter1138: VB DOES have a "Currency" Data Type. Does he know that?
14:12:51  <peter1138> well, an int can't hold decimal points
14:13:01  <peter1138> so *obviously* double was the best datatype
14:13:04  <peter1138> that, or string...
14:13:20  <Celestar> when you work with Currency, use fixed-point stuff :S
14:13:42  <Celestar> it's not that anything costs pi euros :S
14:13:43  <peter1138> it's not my code, btw :)
14:13:51  <Matt-W> it should!
14:13:52  <Matt-W> new train type
14:13:59  <Matt-W> trains cost 4pi
14:14:03  <Celestar> peter1138: please point the guy to VB documentation?
14:14:03  <Matt-W> wagons cost 2e
14:14:22  <Matt-W> running costs are 6x(sqrt(2))/day
14:14:24  *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas
14:14:42  <Celestar> the question is, when you do floating points, and stay strictly in the powers of two, would that work? :)
14:14:42  <peter1138> he doesn't work here any more...
14:14:48  <Celestar> peter1138: I wonder why ...
14:14:55  <Celestar> no wait, I don't :P
14:14:56  <Matt-W> and the speed is halfway to the destination each day...
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14:16:33  <Celestar> peter1138: Tron: comments about that diff?
14:18:26  <peter1138> looks better
14:18:47  <Celestar> good.
14:18:54  <Celestar> "Go" from tron and it's gone :P
14:18:55  <peter1138> hmm
14:18:58  *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-83-100-202-191.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
14:19:05  <peter1138> so this new acceleration...
14:19:11  * peter1138 wonders if it's working :P
14:19:57  <Matt-W> build a train and try it?
14:20:07  <Belugas> Celestar : for french : +STR_8864_WAIT_FOR_SLOT   :{YELLOW}En attente d'un arrêt libre
14:20:55  <Celestar> Belugas: I'm not sure whether I should commit that :)
14:21:07  <Celestar> unless french.txt is UTF-8
14:21:26  <Belugas> mmmpfff... "arret"
14:21:55  <Belugas> accents are allowed, by the way.  Maybe it is just the way irc is sendig it...
14:22:09  <glx> Belugas: make a diff
14:22:36  <Sacro> isnt a sed script eaiser?
14:22:58  <peter1138> hmm
14:23:14  <peter1138> this doesn't appear any different o_O
14:23:23  <Noldo> Belugas: hows the map stuff?
14:24:07  <Belugas> Noldo : as much as we (tfc_newmap team) are concerned, our work is done.
14:24:08  <Celestar> Belugas: I'm not sure about the encoding. will check later
14:24:19  <peter1138> oh, it's not :P
14:24:27  <Noldo> Belugas: nice
14:25:02  <Belugas> Noldo : right now, there is dev effort to bring it in trunk, but in a better way...
14:25:35  <Belugas> Thanks for the concern, peter1138 ;)
14:25:44  <peter1138> hmm?
14:25:49  <peter1138> talking about a patch :P
14:25:59  <Belugas> oh.. I tough about tfc...
14:26:10  <glx> :P
14:26:12  <Belugas> confusion
14:26:51  <Sacro> hey Belugas
14:26:52  <Belugas> either way, tfc is not dead, some obsure new projects ahead :)
14:27:10  <Belugas> Hello Sacro  Glad to see your internet connection came back :)
14:28:54  <peter1138> ah, that's better
14:28:56  <Sacro> Belugas: it hasnt, im at my mums
14:29:06  <peter1138> this 500hp train carrying 393t is struggling now
14:29:15  <Sacro> peter1138: which patch?
14:29:18  <peter1138> physics accel
14:29:43  <Sacro> is it any good?
14:29:50  <peter1138> well
14:30:01  <peter1138> these cheap 45mph/500hp trains in the ukrs are now less useful
14:30:02  <Celestar> back
14:30:03  <peter1138> which is good
14:30:18  <peter1138> they'll tow pretty much anything without this patch
14:30:49  * peter1138 tries a class 91
14:31:17  <peter1138> hmm, max speed is wrong :/
14:31:37  <Sacro> lol
14:31:51  <Sacro> i use 500hp trains all the time, for minerals and grain
14:32:52  <Celestar> Tron disappeared :(
14:32:57  <peter1138> Sacro: yes
14:33:00  <peter1138> it's too easy :)
14:33:27  <Sacro> yeah, i want  higher production rates, and lower prices
14:33:33  <Sacro> so you get nice long trains
14:38:42  <Sacro> is elrails going to get merged?
14:38:49  <Celestar> Sacro: yes.
14:39:14  <Jang-> i think you need to do 3rd rail next ;)
14:39:21  <Celestar> 3rd rail sucks
14:39:27  <Jang-> indeed it does
14:39:36  <Jang-> bit more realistic tho
14:39:38  <Celestar> no one in their right mind uses 3rd rail for anything > 100km/h
14:39:42  <Sacro> well someone is doing a LUL set, so then youd need 3rd rail
14:39:48  <Celestar> LUL?
14:39:50  <Jang-> you'd need 4th rail for them
14:39:54  <Sacro> London Underground Line
14:39:58  <Sacro> Jang-: true
14:40:06  <Celestar> doe the patch have 3rd rail? ;)
14:40:07  <Jang-> LUL is just weird
14:40:12  <Jang-> no, but Loco does
14:40:14  <Celestar> 3rd rail is no code.
14:40:20  <Celestar> 3rd rail is just a buncho new sprites.
14:40:23  <Jang-> at least, i dunno if patch does
14:40:30  <Sacro> surely it'd just use the elrails code mostly#
14:40:39  <Celestar> Sacro: no elrail code is needed.
14:40:42  <Celestar> just a new sprite set
14:40:56  <Celestar> so if anyone draws it, implementation is < 5 minutes
14:41:01  <Jang-> Celestar: are you talking about 3rd rail INSTEAD of overhead? or as well as?
14:41:05  <Celestar> i.e. create a new RailTypeInfo entry.
14:41:08  <Jang-> i see
14:41:09  <Celestar> Jang-: as well as.
14:41:11  <Jang-> yes
14:41:14  <Sacro> Celestar: but then you'd get 3rd rail trains running on normal rails
14:41:21  <Celestar> Sacro: no
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14:41:38  <Jang-> although all electric would run on either 3rd rail or overhead, so it would be of no game advantage
14:41:38  * Sacro is confused
14:41:42  <Celestar> Compatible Railtypes solves that issue.
14:42:09  <Sacro> ah yeah
14:42:20  <Celestar> Jang-: construction costs/operational cost/max speed
14:42:24  <Sacro> so why all the extra stuff for elrails?
14:42:25  <Jang-> ok, what's compatible railtypes?
14:42:29  <Jang-> is that some NFO thing?
14:42:37  <Jang-> i don't really get this newgrf stuff
14:42:48  <Celestar> Jang-: it's an entry in RailTypeInfo that says what types of rail an engine can use
14:42:58  <Jang-> and RailTypeInfo is what?
14:43:04  <Jang-> NFO
14:43:04  <Jang-> ?
14:43:08  <Celestar> Jang-: rail.h:144
14:43:20  * Jang- wonders if he has the code somewhere on his laptop
14:43:52  <Sacro> lol
14:43:56  <Sacro> websvn is useful
14:44:03  <Celestar> it IS online, you know
14:44:19  <Jang-> yeah, i'm gonna have to resort to that, i think this code i have is somewhat old
14:44:26  <Sacro> who'da thunk it
14:44:29  <Jang-> doesn't even have a rail.h - only cmd and gui
14:44:34  <Celestar> guys, we need an autorail icon for elrails.h
14:44:40  <Celestar> s/.h//
14:44:46  <Celestar> Jang-: then the code is REALLY old.
14:44:54  <Jang-> ;)
14:45:06  <Sacro> old one with a lightning bolt?
14:45:22  <Jang-> my one was back in the day of horse-drawn trains
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14:46:09  <Sacro> hmm, thats old
14:46:26  <peter1138> Sacro: catenary requires extra bits
14:46:38  <Sacro> oh right
14:46:45  <Celestar> peter1138: extra bits where?
14:46:50  <peter1138> drawing bits :P
14:46:54  <Celestar> ah
14:46:55  <peter1138> not memory bits
14:46:57  <Sacro> Celestar: to connect them to the line :)
14:47:27  <Celestar> hm?
14:47:33  <peter1138> 3rd is possible, how to specify the rail type in, say, newgrf/nfo is another matter
14:47:52  <Celestar> what about drawing a 3rd rail sprite set and just implementing it?
14:47:53  *** XeryusTC is now known as XeryusW3
14:47:55  <Celestar> it's cheap.
14:47:58  <Celestar> possibly someone will use it
14:47:59  <Tron> Celestar: sorry, was afk, somebody asked me to turn a boolean equation into an ILP equation
14:48:15  <Sacro> ILP?
14:48:32  <Jang-> presumably now that elrails is (practically) done, is it feasible to do high-speed rail stuff? including maximum speeds and routing?
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14:48:45  <Celestar> ILP?
14:49:08  <Celestar> Jang-: I'll first implement track maintenance cost. then we can look into that :)
14:49:16  <Jang-> sweet
14:49:34  <Celestar> but we still have a huge bridge problem with elrails.
14:49:38  <peter1138> Celestar: well, i can't draw :)
14:49:43  <Celestar> can anyone of you decode/encode grfs?
14:49:52  <Sacro> i can
14:49:59  <peter1138> Jang-: er, totally irrelevant...
14:50:16  <peter1138> i suppose max speed per railtype might work
14:50:20  <peter1138> but... hmm
14:50:25  <Celestar> Sacro: can you decode elrailsw.grf and send me the bitmap?
14:50:31  <Celestar> peter1138: I'd vote for it.
14:50:42  <Jang-> peter1138: yeah, something like that
14:51:14  <Tron> ILP -> Integer Linear Program
14:51:14  <Jang-> peter1138: in RL, high-speed lines are critical, in TTD, it's kind of default
14:51:33  <Jang-> Britain only has one high-speed line :/
14:51:40  <Celestar> 200km/h lines cost 2x construction and 3x maintenance of 160km/h lines
14:51:58  <Celestar> 300km/h+ lines cost 2x construction and 3-4x maintenance of 200km/h lines
14:52:04  <Sacro> Jang-: Waterloo - Dover?
14:52:11  <Sacro> Jang-: what about ECML?
14:52:27  <Jang-> definitely a Patch Option (tm) tho, because not everyone would want it
14:52:32  <Sacro> yeah
14:52:36  <Jang-> Sacro: is ECML 200mph?
14:52:40  <Jang-> i don't think so
14:52:55  <Jang-> AFAIK it's only 125mph?
14:53:15  <Jang-> IMO 125 is not fast,
14:53:23  <Celestar> 125km/h IS 200kmh?
14:53:27  <Jang-> not compared to France, Japan and Germany at any rate
14:53:44  <Jang-> Celestar: yeah, give or take
14:53:52  <Celestar> in Germany, everything > 200km/h is a high speed line.
14:53:54  <Jang-> assuming you meant 125mp/h
14:53:55  <Sacro> Jang-: when your stood on the platform at granthem, trains pass through at 100mph, it seems fast
14:54:01  <Jang-> yeah, :)
14:54:04  <Sacro> s/granthem/grantham
14:54:04  <Jang-> that's just perception tho
14:54:11  <Celestar> Tron: any comments?
14:54:24  <Sacro> "The next train does not stop here, PLEASE STAND WELL BACK"
14:54:27  <peter1138> do we even have track maintenance costs?
14:54:38  <Tron> Celestar: about what?
14:54:40  <peter1138> pj
14:54:41  <peter1138> oh
14:54:42  <peter1138> no :)
14:54:51  <Jang-> so, using Celestar's definition, AFAIK we only have Swanley - Dover
14:55:01  <Celestar> Tron: about the diff above? :)
14:55:11  <Tron> url please
14:55:15  <Jang-> well, not quite sure where it starts tbh, but I can assure you that trains don't go to Waterloo at 181mph ;)
14:55:25  <Celestar> < Celestar> peter1138 tron RFC:
14:55:39  <peter1138> i think the UK side of the chunnel stuff is a bit slower
14:56:03  <Sacro> yeah, it is
14:56:06  <Jang-> that's what the CTRL was supposed to sort out peter1138
14:56:19  <Sacro> i think it adds about 10-20 mins journey time cos of it
14:56:25  <Celestar> the Eurostar SUCKS
14:56:30  <Tron> Celestar: a vehicle immediatly stops when i can't get a slot?
14:56:46  <Jang->
14:56:58  <Celestar> Tron: yes. no slowdown implemented, because it sucks.
14:57:01  <Jang-> eurostar is basically a TGV
14:57:07  <Celestar> Jang-: it sucks anyway.
14:57:23  <Celestar> I've not yet used a European high-speed train that doesn't suck.
14:57:31  <Jang-> "In safety testing on the section prior to opening, a new UK rail speed record of 208 mph (334.7 km/h) was set"
14:57:42  <Tron> Celestar: is it possible to let the vehicle do something else?
14:57:46  <Jang-> well, Celestar, i know you were impressed in Japan
14:58:04  <peter1138> Celestar: it should, at least, honour the road vehicle queueing patch setting...
14:58:20  <Celestar> Tron: not without having unwanted effects
14:58:42  <Tron> Celestar: so there's no way to tell a vehicle to go to the depot or something?
14:59:04  <Celestar> Tron: the next vehicle might be ages away.
14:59:13  <Tron> huh?
14:59:21  <Tron> i don't understand
14:59:25  <Celestar> s/vehicle/depot/
14:59:28  <Tron> and?
14:59:41  <Celestar> sucks if you just needa stop for 3-4 seconds
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14:59:49  <Tron> *sigh*
14:59:50  <Tron> no
14:59:53  <Celestar> Tron: there is another way.
14:59:56  <Tron> you totally misunderstood
15:00:02  <peter1138> it can head toward a depot
15:00:06  <Tron> can _I_ tell a waiting vehicle to do something else
15:00:11  <Celestar> Tron: yes.
15:00:20  <Celestar> at least I'm working on it :)
15:00:27  <peter1138> isee. heh.
15:00:30  <Tron> so sending it to a depot or skipping the order or something works?
15:00:42  <Celestar> Tron: not yet in that diff, but in the next one (5 minutes)
15:00:47  <peter1138> Celestar:
15:00:49  <Celestar> I'm just trying to find all possible places
15:01:18  <Jang-> Sacro: apparently the trains on the ECML could go faster if the signalling / brakes of the 225s were improved
15:01:36  <Celestar> peter1138: I'll incorporate that.
15:01:50  <Bjarni> ---	Cannot join #openttd.tfc_newmap (Channel is invite only).
15:01:52  <Bjarni> wtf
15:02:13  <CobraA1> Celestar: I noticed you were assigned to my aircraft queueing patch - any news on that?
15:02:39  <Tron> peter1138: this fixes some glitches?
15:02:50  <glx> Bjarni: retry
15:02:52  <Celestar> CobraA1: I was? Will check weekend.
15:02:55  <Celestar> Tron: a couple
15:03:02  <Bjarni> now it worked :)
15:03:08  <Celestar> peter1138: tron: if a vehicle has a slot, it should NOT go to a depot. Comments?
15:03:20  <peter1138> yeah
15:03:28  <CobraA1> celestar: That's what SourceForge says.
15:03:33  * peter1138 waits ages for svn over smb to work
15:03:44  <Celestar> peter1138: then the change in line 1590 makes little sense :)
15:04:36  <peter1138> yup, but i wasn't considering that they shouldn't go to a depot, at the time
15:04:49  <peter1138> that's at least a week old ;)
15:05:49  <Sacro> svn over smb :S
15:06:50  <Jang-> i used to have to do svn over http-proxy
15:06:52  <Jang-> now that was painful
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15:10:32  <peter1138> Sacro: cocks here who don't bother committing their changes
15:13:40  <Tron> Celestar: if _I_ tell it to go to a depot it should better do that
15:14:07  <Celestar> Tron: I know.
15:14:17  <Celestar> I just have a minor issue with order skipping
15:14:27  <Sacro> hmm
15:14:42  <Tron> if you think about regular service, yes, it should probably unload first
15:15:42  <Celestar> yes. it will
15:16:31  <CIA-5> tron * r3907 /trunk/ (13 files in 3 dirs): Replace many bridge related direct map accesses with calls to shiny new functions and mark some strange constructs with XXX
15:17:42  <Tron> if anyone cares to check this *cough* little commit, i'd appreciate that
15:19:18  <Celestar> I will
15:19:39  <Celestar> if you check
15:20:03  <Celestar> road vehicles now resume movement when you skip orders or send to depot
15:21:00  <Celestar> also if you delete an order
15:22:56  <Tron> Celestar: the last hunk in roadveh_cmd.c alters the costs, if that is intended better explicitly mention that (or even better make a separate commit)
15:23:11  <Celestar> Tron: in npf.c:~490. where did the direction check go?
15:23:52  <Celestar> Tron: why does it alter the cost? I just moved the if VS_STOPPED to before the slot allocator.
15:25:11  <Tron> Celestar: holidays maybe...
15:25:18  <Tron> Celestar: ok, then it's fine
15:27:42  <Celestar> Tron: rail.c checked, looks fine.
15:28:47  <CIA-5> tron * r3908 /trunk/npf.c: Fix last commit (I'm saying that way too often *sigh*) (Pointed out by Celestar)
15:29:06  <Tron> bah... wrong time, my English detoriates
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15:29:29  <Celestar> Tron: what'S wrong with the English?
15:30:54  <Celestar> 20% checked :P
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15:31:56  <Celestar> diff produces STRANGE output at times :S
15:32:03  <Tron> it should be simple present
15:32:17  <Celestar> ah you mean the Fixed :P
15:32:30  <Celestar> I was auto-completing it on-the-fly :P
15:34:25  <Celestar> your XXXes are nice.
15:34:40  <Celestar> I don't get the else if IsBridge eithrt..
15:34:44  <Celestar> either.
15:35:39  <Celestar> 40% checked.
15:37:58  <Celestar> Tron: in road_cmd.c:~135. Why the is the ComplementRoadBits needed?
15:38:35  <Celestar> cancel last question.
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15:39:44  <Celestar> -...........if ((ti.map5 & 0xF8) == 0xE8) { /* road under bridge */
15:39:51  <Celestar> how did THIS make sense?
15:42:06  <Qball> it;s extra special stuff
15:42:12  <Qball> your not intended to get it
15:42:28  <Born_Acorn> I get it. The road is under the bridge
15:43:01  <Celestar> ah got it.
15:43:08  <Celestar> er wait.
15:43:20  <Qball> it's to make things less error prone
15:46:04  <Celestar> ok that line above there is a bug.
15:46:29  <Celestar> Tron: you fixed a bug in roadveh_cmd.c:~362
15:47:05  * Celestar hands Tron  a cookie
15:48:01  <Jang-> irc reduces productivity
15:48:02  <Jang-> :/
15:48:07  <Jang-> i'm gonna go now
15:48:09  <Celestar> Jang-: ?
15:48:09  <Jang-> ciao for now
15:48:17  <Jang-> i end up checking it every minute
15:48:20  <Celestar> you haven't been saying anything for ages :P
15:48:31  <Jang-> doesn't mean i haven't been checking :/
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15:52:53  <Celestar> Tron: water_cmd.c:560. Why the added return?
16:03:05  <Celestar> Tron: Rev 3907 checked.
16:03:05  <Tron> Celestar: there is no added return, the diff just looks 'interesting'
16:03:05  <Celestar> Tron: ah.
16:03:05  <Celestar> then diff is ok.
16:03:05  <Celestar> :)
16:03:05  <Celestar> Tron: any comments on the multistop diff?
16:03:05  *** Qrrbrbirlbel [] has joined #openttd
16:03:23  <Tron> < Celestar> Tron: you fixed a bug in roadveh_cmd.c:~362 <-- i did?
16:03:49  <Celestar> yes you did.
16:04:01  <Tron> i didn't even touch that file
16:04:07  <Celestar> the wrong error messsage was produced when you tried to build a road under a bridge which leads over water.
16:04:24  <Celestar> er.
16:04:25  <Tron> road_cmd.c?
16:04:26  <Celestar> road_cmd.c
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16:05:46  <Tron> i don't see the bug
16:06:26  <Celestar> Tron: revert. build a bridge over water and then try to build a road under water. read error message.
16:06:45  <Celestar> then upgrade, then repeat operation.
16:08:08  <Celestar> hm vim listchars are very handy
16:08:20  <Sacro> vim scares me
16:08:29  <Celestar> it used to scare me as well.
16:08:31  <Celestar> not anymore
16:09:05  <Qball> vim is ment to be scary
16:09:13  <Celestar> vim is the best IDE I ever met
16:09:30  <Qball> well it's the best editor I know
16:10:30  <Tron> Celestar: cannot build on water
16:11:02  <Celestar> that's what you get now.
16:11:45  <Celestar> but I used to get "need to demolish bridge" first or something
16:12:05  <Tron> i only have the elrail branch here
16:12:09  <Tron> i get this very error
16:12:12  <Celestar> hmm strange
16:12:19  <Celestar> well, what the hell. it works now.
16:12:28  <Tron> ah, you tried to build a non-perpendicular road
16:12:48  <Celestar> I did? maybe
16:14:18  <Tron> if there are multiple errors, you should expect to get any of them
16:14:38  <Sacro> non-perpendicular = parallel ?
16:14:52  <Tron> eh, yes
16:15:01  <Sacro> thought so
16:15:26  <Tron> you can only build a road which is perpendicular to the to the bridge
16:15:43  <Celestar> if there are no objections, I shall commit the multistop modifications
16:15:52  <Tron> any latest diff?
16:15:57  <Celestar> ms3.diff
16:16:10  <Celestar> I'm just testing it a bit
16:16:16  <Celestar> (as much as work permits)
16:23:40  <Patrick`> ... underwater roads?
16:23:45  <Patrick`> I have been gone a while
16:23:50  * Patrick` reads svn ci messages
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16:29:40  <peter1138> mental note
16:29:43  <peter1138> hot chocolate is
16:29:44  <peter1138> ot
16:29:46  <peter1138> +hot
16:29:47  <peter1138> ;?
16:29:48  <peter1138> :/
16:29:51  <peter1138> DAIOUHGWOAIEHi3w gt#72=
16:29:53  <peter1138> -=0
16:29:57  <peter1138> fucking fingers
16:30:47  <Celestar> Tron: peter1138: any more comments?
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16:42:32  <Tron> Celestar: not at the moment
16:42:38  <Celestar> because I'd like to commit before I go home :P
16:42:53  <Celestar> to have nightly testing
16:43:10  <Sacro> its a good idea
16:44:16  <peter1138> i can't review atm
16:44:34  <Celestar> ok then it'll just have to do! :P
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16:44:39  <peter1138> if it works and you think it's an improvement, commit
16:44:48  <peter1138> we can always just change it  ;)
16:44:51  <Celestar> true
16:47:42  <CIA-5> celestar * r3909 /trunk/ (lang/english.txt roadveh_cmd.c roadveh_gui.c):
16:47:42  <CIA-5> [multistop]
16:47:42  <CIA-5> -Codechange: No longer hijack the VS_STOPPED flag when waiting for a slot.
16:47:42  <CIA-5> -Fix: Vehicles waiting for slots can still be controlled (sent to depot, orders modified, ...)
16:47:42  <CIA-5> -Fix: Vehicles no longer stop on crossings and during overtake operations
16:47:54  <Celestar> ok going home.
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16:51:21  <Sacro> hmm
16:52:57  <ln->
17:00:40  <ln-> stop staring at it already!
17:01:23  *** Prof_Frink [] has quit ["oops, forgot to screen"]
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17:06:28  <Bjarni> -Fix: Vehicles no longer stop on crossings and during overtake operations <-- LOL
17:06:52  <Bjarni> there are two lorries on my destination, so I will go park on the railroad instead
17:06:54  <Bjarni> :p
17:08:01  <Sacro> its a reasonable idea
17:08:27  <Bjarni> ln-: I have seen this place before
17:08:29  <Bjarni> it's real
17:08:50  <Bjarni> I'm not sure the beer commercial or the topless woman was present there though
17:09:00  <Bjarni> photoshop can do a lot
17:09:56  <Bjarni> LOL at this popup window. "You are out visitor # 1 billion. Click here to collect your price"
17:10:07  <Bjarni> somehow I don't trust a popup like that
17:10:27  <ln-> here's another shoot from the same location, different angle:
17:10:56  <Sacro> theres a lack of shadow
17:11:36  <Bjarni> ln-: according to Celestar, one place hit the fence with the rear landing gear... image how close it must have been to the people on the beach
17:11:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> [16.03. 15:50] <Tron> Celestar: sorry, was afk, somebody asked me to turn a boolean equation into an ILP equation <- that's rather trivial, ain't it?
17:12:13  <Sacro> what is ILP?
17:12:14  *** glx is now known as glx|away
17:12:30  <Bjarni> In Line People?
17:12:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> Integer Linear Program
17:12:57  <Sacro> still none the wiser with either answer
17:13:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> you have an inequation like A*x >= b
17:13:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> with A being a matrix
17:13:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> and b a vector
17:13:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> and you search for an optimal vector x that contains integers
17:13:45  <Sacro> hmm
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17:14:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> for real numbers solving that is simple (Gauß Algorithm)
17:14:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> but for integers it is NP-complete i believe
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17:19:02  <Matt-W> do we like // comments or do we stick to /* */ comments?
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17:21:26  <magnus_1986> Good Evening channel
17:21:30  *** |Jeroen| [] has joined #openttd
17:22:18  <Sacro> Matt-W: I belive its /* */
17:22:27  <Sacro> magnus_1986: good evening
17:23:28  <ln-> Matt-W: // is being used in the code on many occasions
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17:24:16  <peter1138> technically C wants /* */
17:24:25  <Qball> c89 C
17:24:42  <peter1138> just be consistent, heh
17:25:02  <Sacro> hmm
17:25:11  <Sacro> start with // and end with */
17:25:16  <Sacro> best of both worlds
17:25:19  <magnus_1986> Is what I hear on the forums, about OpenTTD using large parts of reverse engineered code from TTD and being in legal grey area, correct?
17:25:30  <peter1138> :P
17:25:59  <Qball> magnus_1986: naah, it's more the pink area
17:26:06  <Qball> atleast Bjarni thinks so
17:26:25  <ln-> magnus_1986: correct.
17:26:26  <magnus_1986> Qball: that was quite helpful :S
17:26:46  <Qball> magnus_1986: yes, I am good at that
17:26:56  <Qball> can I give some more useless answers?
17:27:07  <Sacro> Qball: its what you do best
17:27:15  <magnus_1986> Qball: please do so :p
17:27:56  <Qball> Sacro: I got a useless degree in it
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17:30:15  <Sacro> Qball: the one that came with your breakfast cereal?
17:31:18  <Vornicus> openttd /started/ with ttd code, to which the source was opened.
17:31:23  <Qball> Sacro: no... I rob it off the president of america
17:31:36  <Qball> now bush is completely clueless
17:31:45  <magnus_1986> QBall: Bachelor in Bachelor arts: How not to get married?
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17:32:14  <Qball> I have to go, irritate some other people
17:33:26  <Bjarni> 	<Qball>	atleast Bjarni thinks so <-- are you on some sort of medication?
17:33:26  *** Sionide [] has quit ["/quit"]
17:33:43  <Sacro> Bjarni: worse, i think he may be off it
17:33:59  <Sacro> Qball: bush was clueless already
17:34:22  <Qball> Sacro: true (both things)
17:34:32  <Vornicus> if that's a legal grey area then my name is englebert humperdink.
17:34:38  <Bjarni> Qball: maybe you should be
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17:34:54  <Bjarni> hi Englebert
17:35:04  <Qball> how is the humperdink buisness?
17:35:07  <Bjarni> hmm
17:35:38  * Bjarni wonders if he should actually read what the current topic is
17:36:19  <Bjarni> all I read was that Qball called me gay
17:36:30  <Vornicus> heh
17:36:48  <Bjarni> which is clearly a sign of lack of medication
17:37:03  * Sacro checks the gaydar for verificatino
17:37:06  <Sacro> *verification
17:37:26  <Bjarni> no need to do that
17:37:27  <Sacro> theres medication to stop you being gay?
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17:38:07  <Bjarni> I already said that I'm against all that gay stuff in public
17:38:11  <Sacro> people going shopping?
17:38:30  <Sacro> so your more of a private gay~?
17:38:56  <Bjarni> 	<Sacro>	theres medication to stop you being gay? <-- heh, the nazis tried that and they did get it to work
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17:39:25  <Bjarni> I mean they broke their brains so they could not do anything at all
17:39:37  <Sacro> hmm
17:39:53  <Sacro> the nazis tried a few things
17:40:35  <Bjarni> the nazis invented a pill so the soldiers didn't feel hunger, but it had sideeffects so they didn't use it
17:40:49  <Bjarni> now it's used for the sideeffects only
17:41:05  <Bjarni> it's called ecstasy
17:41:22  <Bjarni> image giving that to a whole army with guns
17:41:29  <peter1138> heh
17:41:45  <Sacro> hmm, itd be like belfast
17:41:52  <Bjarni> 	<Sacro>	so your more of a private gay~? <-- no and that's not what I meant
17:42:05  <FauxFaux> A gay pirate?!
17:42:25  <Bjarni> the cause of the 7 seas
17:42:43  <Bjarni> get boarded and lose something you never thought you could lose
17:42:58  <Bjarni> brb
17:42:59  <Sacro> i suppose you have to enjoy being around seamen
17:43:08  <FauxFaux> Sacro: Zing.
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17:44:06  <Sacro> hehe
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17:47:55  <Sacro> its gone all quiet here
17:50:49  *** glx|away is now known as glx
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17:52:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> you scared everyone off ;)
17:53:35  *** XeryusW3 is now known as XeryusTC
17:54:17  <Sacro> me? i never did out
17:58:01  <Sacro> i had a horrifying moment there, i couldnt refresh
17:58:15  <Sacro> i thought i might actually have to get out of bed
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18:14:47  <Born_Acorn> Crazy Vaclav has that Super Sprinter down
18:14:49  <Born_Acorn>
18:15:56  <DjViper> sweeeet gfx
18:16:19  <DjViper> btw, I see the cars are all for track, what about maglev cargo?
18:16:52  <Born_Acorn> I believe that comes afterwards.
18:16:56  <DjViper> ok
18:17:26  <DjViper> eurostar == ice ?
18:17:47  <Born_Acorn> No, its the Eurostar.
18:17:57  <Prof_Frink> ice is frozen water.
18:18:08  <Sacro> in car entertainment?
18:18:20  <|Jeroen|> well where learning somhing here tonight
18:18:30  <Born_Acorn> They are getting the current vehicles done before adding new ones.
18:19:14  <Prof_Frink> aer we learnding speling?
18:19:33  <Born_Acorn> I can learnd things!
18:20:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> Eurostar is the train going through the eurotunnel
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18:20:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> that has nothing to do with the ICE (german high speed train)
18:21:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's more like an improved TGV (french high speed train)
18:21:41  <Born_Acorn> It is space ready too.
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18:36:25  <Tron> Eddi|zuHause2: yes, it is. i made a KNF and transformed every term of the KNF into one equation each. i don't know if that's the easiest solution, i never worked with ILPs before
18:36:33  <CIA-5> belugas * r3910 /branch/map/ (tile.c tile.h viewport.c): [branc_map] -Fix : Compiling on MinGW now possible, on renaming conflicting types COMP_x (windows.h) to COMPAR_x. Found by glx
18:37:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> that's pretty much what i had in mind also ;)
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18:39:08  <Tron> what the? branch/map?
18:40:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, the ILP
18:41:30  <Belugas> Tron : PM
18:41:32  <Tron> i know, it wasn't related to what you said
18:41:39  <Tron> Belugas: i see it
18:41:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> oh... ok.
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19:28:58  <Sacro> its oh so quiet
19:29:16  <hylje> yes really
19:29:18  <Patrick`> don't worry, I'm here to fill the gaps
19:29:32  <guru3> do you have any caulking?
19:29:36  <Belugas> gaps gaps gaps gaps
19:29:39  <Patrick`> har.
19:29:51  <hylje> more gaps
19:30:04  <Belugas> ran out of :(
19:30:11  <hylje> :<
19:30:17  <guru3> :o
19:33:24  <Sacro> caulking?
19:33:36  <guru3> caulk you know
19:33:40  <guru3> the stuff you put in cracks
19:33:44  <guru3> of certain types
19:34:48  <Sacro> filler?
19:35:03  <Patrick`> that's not cheese, that's caulk! MEATWAD!
19:37:27  <Sacro> hmm
19:37:32  <Sacro> my brother just explained it to me
19:39:22  * Bjarni wonders who got the bright idea to put a file names (name).pdf.exe online
19:39:35  <Bjarni> it turned out to be... a normal pdf file
19:39:42  <Bjarni> I just removed .exe and it worked
19:40:33  <Sacro> lol
19:42:28  <hylje> maybe he wanted to backup the file
19:43:04  <Sacro> lol
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19:43:42  <MeusH> hello
19:43:44  <MeusH> hey MiHaMiX
19:43:46  <MeusH> how's the wiki?
19:43:50  <MiHaMiX> MeusH: upgraded :)
19:43:56  <MiHaMiX> MeusH: didn't you noticed? :D
19:44:40  * MiHaMiX is looking for the following MP3: Gary Jones - Mad World. If someone has/saw it, please msg! Thanks!
19:46:55  * Sacro doesnt have it on him
19:47:29  <MiHaMiX> it seems that I already acquired it :D
19:47:42  <Sacro> nice one
19:47:46  <Sacro> is it any good?
19:47:48  <MiHaMiX> at least, assuming I can connect to my favourite server :D
19:48:33  <MiHaMiX> Sacro: yes, definitely :) There was a CSI epi which featured this song
19:49:12  * BurtyB likes mad world
19:49:27  <MiHaMiX> BurtyB: you know it? :)
19:49:34  <BurtyB> yeah
19:49:55  <MiHaMiX> BurtyB: it's a good song, at least I loved it for the first hear :)
19:50:50  <BurtyB> yer it has something
19:51:18  <MeusH> MiHaMiX: not really...
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19:51:51  <MiHaMiX> MeusH: spammers?
19:52:34  <MiHaMiX> MeusH: if you didn't notice it may means everything works fine?
19:52:42  <Sacro> ooh, i love CSI
19:53:14  <MiHaMiX> Sacro: me too :)
19:53:50  <MiHaMiX> Sacro: at 21:15 CET the CSI s06e03 will be aired :)
19:54:41  <MiHaMiX> Sacro: but I have every episode which has been aired, so I have it til' S06E17
19:55:53  <MiHaMiX> Sacro: and I'm collecting CSI: Miami and CSI: NY episodes as well :)
19:57:23  <Sacro> yeah a few of my mates collect them
19:57:30  <Sacro> ive only seen first 3 seasons of CSI
19:57:51  <Sacro> hmm, brb
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20:13:38  <MiHaMiX> ok, bbl, csi :)
20:18:38  <Tron>  * Returns a pointer to the Railtype information for a given railtype
20:18:38  <Tron>  * @param railtype the rail type which the information is requested for
20:18:38  <Tron>  * @return The pointer to the RailtypeInfo
20:18:38  <Tron>  */
20:18:38  <Tron> static inline const RailtypeInfo *GetRailTypeInfo(RailType railtype)
20:19:03  <Tron> am i the only one who thinks that @param and @return is redundantly redundant information which is redundant?
20:20:52  <egladil> doxygen likes them
20:21:11  <hylje> redundancy is good
20:21:23  <Tron> no, it isn't
20:21:30  <Tron> not always
20:23:21  <Tron> i think it's line noise. there's something there which suggest there something special going on. i read it to just find out there is absolutly nothing to see here
20:23:37  <Tron> ... suggests there is something ...
20:23:43  * peter1138 returns
20:24:58  <Tron> ... to an invalid address and segfaults
20:26:17  * peter1138 checks
20:26:21  <peter1138> nope, this is my house :)
20:27:31  <MeusH> MiHaMiX: how does it really work? Seems unregistered users may not edit the wiki
20:27:37  <hylje> my house segfaults :<
20:27:51  <hylje> MeusH: yes they can, just did yesterday
20:28:28  <MeusH> so, one should register. However, I don't see the authorisation
20:28:44  <hylje> well
20:28:50  <hylje> i dont have any accounts there
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20:36:50  <Bjarni> 	*	peter1138 returns <-- who raised peter1138 to become an undead?
20:38:21  <hylje> not me
20:38:27  <hylje> ask the local Death Knight
20:39:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> the T-Virus?
20:42:06  <MeusH> MiHaMiX: where are the authorisation methods?
20:42:18  <MeusH> Anyway MiHaMiX: may I start writing the blacklist?
20:44:00  <Patrick`> ugh, cut a hole in my boxers by mistake
20:44:06  <Patrick`> patches pending this episode of red dwarf
20:46:26  * Matt-W bangs his head on the desk
20:49:47  *** DJ_Mirage [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:52:08  <Bjarni> <Patrick`>	ugh, cut a hole in my boxers by mistake <-- if you placed it right, you don't have to take them off when you go to the toilet :p
20:53:09  *** Fujitsu [] has joined #openttd
20:53:40  <hylje> who needs pants anyway
20:54:16  *** e1ko [] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.67+ [SeaMonkey 1.0/2006013012]"]
20:54:34  <BurtyB> girls do so they can take em off
20:55:08  <Bjarni> that depends
20:55:17  <Bjarni> the need is not that great in a nudist camp
20:55:30  <Bjarni> but I guess the need is there in Greenland during the winter
20:55:55  <hylje> enough robes and good boots
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20:57:27  <Bjarni> lol
20:57:45  <Bjarni> <hylje>	enough robes and good boots <-- try to replace boots with boobs
20:57:56  <Bjarni> then the meaning is something totally different
20:58:20  <hylje> its good to have flexible wording
21:00:10  <ln-> i wonder what's the percentage of people on this channel who have really seen a (non-child) girl without pants. :)
21:00:47  <hylje> skirt :-)
21:03:42  *** Sionide [] has quit [Success]
21:03:46  <Bjarni> ln-: you forgot miss .jpg and miss .gif :p
21:04:43  *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-83-100-141-94.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
21:04:45  *** Sionide [] has joined #openttd
21:05:13  <Sacro> im back
21:05:18  <hylje> i see
21:05:18  <Bjarni> :(
21:05:28  <Sacro> im sorry Bjarni, ill go if u want
21:05:38  <Bjarni> err
21:05:38  <Bjarni> :)
21:05:38  <Bjarni> typo
21:05:38  <Bjarni> :p
21:06:00  <hylje> :<
21:06:33  <Sacro> hmm, ok
21:07:28  <Fujitsu> Heh
21:08:20  <Sacro> yeah
21:08:24  <hylje> noes
21:09:06  *** RoySmeding [] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
21:09:16  <Sacro> Bjarni: can you autoreplace from rail to monorail now?
21:09:43  *** Scia [] has quit ["kwiet"]
21:09:56  <Matt-W> What's the field 'uint16 unkA' in the Widget structure for?
21:10:44  <Tron> miscellaneous
21:11:13  <Sacro> anythink miscelleous in particular?
21:11:16  <Tron> it can be a StringID, a Sprite
21:11:23  <Matt-W> so it depends on the widget then
21:11:30  <Bjarni> 	<Sacro>	Bjarni: can you autoreplace from rail to monorail now? <-- no
21:11:30  <Tron> yes
21:11:40  <Matt-W> right
21:12:03  <Matt-W> which explains why one of the main toolbar widgets has a sprite identifier in there
21:12:07  <Sacro> Bjarni: hmm, i think theres some confusion in the forum
21:12:21  <Matt-W> but doesn't explain why most of them have anonymous hex codes which really shouldn't be allowed out of doors
21:12:25  * Matt-W tsks
21:12:42  <Sacro> hehe
21:12:49  <Sacro> welcome to the world of OTTD source
21:13:11  <Tron> i wouldn't mind if unkA dies a slow and horrible death
21:13:13  <Bjarni> <Sacro>	Bjarni: hmm, i think theres some confusion in the forum <--- when will everybody on the forum know what you can do and can't do in the trunk?
21:13:15  <Bjarni> never
21:13:17  <Matt-W> It occurred to me that before plunging into replacing the GUI completely I should try and figure out if anything can be done through incremental improvement instead
21:14:04  * Sacro sniggers at the thought
21:14:26  <Matt-W> people on a forum? know things?
21:14:27  <Matt-W> Perish the thought
21:14:33  <Tron> good idea, this has worked in other areas already
21:14:38  <peter1138> unkA also describes the number of cells in a matrix, heh
21:14:46  *** sw4y [] has quit ["Odletam do paralelniho vesmiru..."]
21:14:47  <Matt-W> Also because incremental improvement is MUCH LESS SCARY
21:14:50  <Tron> peter1138: right, i forgot that one
21:14:53  <Matt-W> And may actually happen
21:15:12  <peter1138> (which has to be updated manually if a window is resized)
21:15:32  <Matt-W> what's a matrix, in the OpenTTD GUI world?
21:15:40  <Matt-W> (obviously I know what a matrix in mathematics is)
21:15:58  *** French_Tycoon [] has joined #openttd
21:16:24  <French_Tycoon> hi everyone
21:16:29  <Sacro> hi French_Tycoon
21:16:44  *** Torrasque [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:16:47  <French_Tycoon> a question quickly
21:17:02  <French_Tycoon> with my girlfriend we d like to play multyplayers in la
21:17:17  <French_Tycoon> but the starting date is 1920 so we canot build anything
21:17:21  <Sacro> hmm, a girlfriend to play multiplayer with, thats an idea
21:17:30  <French_Tycoon> how to set the starting date ?
21:17:44  <French_Tycoon> Sacro: yes a very good idea :)
21:17:53  <French_Tycoon> and we re the two beginers
21:18:12  <Sacro> openttd -t whenever
21:18:22  <Fujitsu> In Configure Patches, Economy?
21:18:39  <French_Tycoon> configures patches ?
21:18:46  <French_Tycoon> adavanced options you means ?
21:18:51  <ln-> i've played openttd multiplayer with my ex-girlfriend! (and that was not the reason why she's ex now)
21:18:57  <French_Tycoon> Sacro: i try rigth now
21:19:00  <French_Tycoon> ln-: lol
21:19:11  <Sacro> i didnt know girls played openttd
21:19:45  *** tank__ is now known as tank
21:20:04  <French_Tycoon> the two solutions works fine
21:20:06  *** XeryusTC is now known as XeryusW3
21:20:09  <French_Tycoon> thanks a lot guys
21:20:15  <Sacro> your welcome
21:20:16  <Fujitsu> Have fun :)
21:20:26  <French_Tycoon> i'm going to crush her under my evil shoes
21:20:29  <Sacro> hehe
21:20:33  <Patrick`> I've officially crossed the line into abject slobbiness
21:20:34  <Fujitsu> Hahah
21:20:40  <Fujitsu> How, Patrick`?
21:20:44  <Patrick`> I've lined my computer chair with newspaper
21:20:50  <Fujitsu> Iiinteresting/
21:20:56  <Sacro> the reason being?
21:20:59  * Matt-W contemplates doing things with the preprocessor that will get him sent to the darkest levels of Hell
21:21:00  <Patrick`> because I farted in it so much it makes totally fresh clothes smell
21:21:12  <Patrick`> so when I read slashdot in the morning over coffee ...
21:21:28  <Sacro> Matt-W: #define #define #pragma might be interesting
21:21:34  <Fujitsu> hahah
21:21:44  <Matt-W> Sacro: that's not quite what I was thinking of
21:21:46  <Patrick`> yeah, it's terrible
21:21:49  * Fujitsu prepares to open the door to hell.
21:21:50  * Matt-W researches if it's even possible
21:22:08  <Matt-W> ad if it is I bet it doesn't work in MSVC anyway
21:22:09  <Patrick`> multiple #defines ?
21:22:14  <Patrick`> that just sounds abjectly awful
21:22:16  <Sacro> nothing wrong with qt
21:22:25  <Matt-W> Sacro: nothing that gtkmm didn't fix anyway :-P
21:22:28  <Fujitsu> It has its own preprocessor! That's got to be bad!
21:22:49  <Matt-W> Fujitsu: it's not bad so much as being completely useless as you can do all that in the language anyway
21:23:01  <Matt-W> but then they do have an excuse, as Qt was designed before some C++ features arrived
21:23:15  <Fujitsu> Hopefully QT4 will be better.
21:23:25  <Sacro> it is looking nice
21:23:39  <Matt-W> QT4 has some nice stuff
21:23:43  <Sacro> im awaiting KDE4
21:23:45  <Matt-W> I still prefer gtkmm though
21:23:55  <Matt-W> but that's largely due to being a GNOME weenie and being very familiar with GTK
21:23:57  <Fujitsu> KDE4 + Plasma... Mmmmmm.....
21:24:13  <Fujitsu> KDE4 + Plasma + Xgl..... Even better....
21:24:24  <Matt-W> mmm Xgl and AIGLX...
21:24:26  <Patrick`> bah kde
21:24:28  <Matt-W> and Compiz of course
21:24:31  <Patrick`> gimme gnome
21:24:32  <Matt-W> yummy yummy
21:24:35  <Matt-W> yay for GNOME!
21:24:38  <Fujitsu> I do prefer GNOME, yes.
21:24:40  <Matt-W> 2.14 was released yesterday
21:24:52  <Matt-W> with some rather nice performance gains
21:24:53  <Patrick`> the XGL livecd made my eyes come
21:25:04  <Patrick`> (tmi)
21:25:04  <Matt-W> my work machine should have finished compiling it by tomorrow morning
21:25:07  <Fujitsu> But KDE will have superior eye-candy when 4 is released, although I don't really care for it.
21:25:15  <Patrick`> meh eye candy
21:25:17  <Matt-W> KDE to me always looks ugly and unfinished
21:25:20  <Patrick`> I want speed and usability
21:25:23  <Matt-W> and cluttered
21:25:29  <Matt-W> quite a bit like my bedroom in fact
21:25:30  <Fujitsu> I'm running Ubuntu 'Dapper Drake' alpha, updated every day :)
21:25:32  <Matt-W> therefore I prefer gnome
21:25:35  <Sacro> yehehe, trolltech have a typo
21:25:36  * Matt-W runs Gentoo
21:25:37  <Fujitsu> I actually use Xgl for normal use, here.
21:25:54  <Matt-W> Fujitsu: i might if compiz's wobbly plugin didn't segfault on startup
21:25:59  <Fujitsu> Hahah
21:26:03  <Fujitsu> What video card?
21:26:06  <Matt-W> without wobbling, what point is there?
21:26:11  <Matt-W> Geforce 6800GS
21:26:11  <Fujitsu> Heh
21:26:17  <Patrick`> wobbly windows make me feel sick
21:26:27  <Matt-W> Let's add wobbly windows to OpenTTD!!
21:26:31  <Fujitsu> The Cube effect is really nice... F12 is nice (think Expos'e)
21:26:32  <Fujitsu> Yes!
21:26:33  <French_Tycoon> hmmmmm sorry
21:26:35  <Sacro> wobbly windows?
21:26:38  <Matt-W> We only has to completely rewrite the rendering model
21:26:45  <French_Tycoon> but in multi she canot build anything
21:26:50  <French_Tycoon> i'm the host
21:27:00  <Fujitsu> Lets make OpenTTD a native GTK+ application, so we can get wobbly windows!!!!!!!!ONE
21:27:09  <Matt-W> F12 is like Expose but nicer animation
21:27:12  <Fujitsu> Yes.
21:27:13  <Matt-W> it's got that little bounce to it
21:27:14  <Fujitsu> They bounce.
21:27:15  <Sacro> French_Tycoon: did she start a new company?
21:27:16  <Fujitsu> Yes.
21:27:20  <Fujitsu> It looks so natural.
21:27:35  <French_Tycoon> Sacro: yes
21:27:37  <Fujitsu> It looks very natural the way the windows bounce.
21:27:45  <Sacro> French_Tycoon: check the server isnt paused
21:27:49  <Fujitsu> Ach! Mein Zugen sind alt!
21:27:50  <French_Tycoon> Sacro: she just build the siege just to see
21:27:55  <French_Tycoon> and it dont change anything
21:27:56  <Sacro> seige :S?
21:28:04  * Prof_Frink couldn't get XGL working :(
21:28:07  <French_Tycoon> Sacro: no server not paused
21:28:13  <Fujitsu> What video card, Prof_Frink?
21:28:44  <Prof_Frink> ati mobility radeon 7500 iirc
21:28:57  <Fujitsu> Ahh.
21:29:02  <Sacro> French_Tycoon: she not getting any messages as to why?
21:29:06  <Fujitsu> It currently doesn't work with Radeons below 9000.
21:29:37  <French_Tycoon> Sacro: somaething new
21:29:56  <French_Tycoon> Sacro: she can build roads but not stations
21:30:07  <French_Tycoon> i have built a station myself
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21:31:08  <Sacro> hmm, strange, check the client list, and the list of companys
21:31:17  <Sacro> check she isnt in as a spectator
21:31:58  <French_Tycoon> Sacro: she has a compagny
21:32:12  <French_Tycoon> she changed the name compagny, owner's name and the color
21:32:16  <French_Tycoon> just like i did
21:32:26  <hylje> town authority
21:32:34  <French_Tycoon> she is right now building roads
21:33:01  <French_Tycoon> hylje: what you mean ?
21:33:20  <hylje> it can prevent building of stations sometimes
21:33:27  *** glx|away is now known as glx
21:33:30  <hylje> when your standing to it is bad
21:33:43  <French_Tycoon> ha
21:33:54  <Fujitsu> Can she build just plain railway track?
21:34:01  <French_Tycoon> hylje: i test this
21:34:23  <French_Tycoon> Fujitsu: i think just a she can build roads
21:34:46  *** Mukke` [] has quit []
21:35:55  <French_Tycoon> hmmmmmm
21:36:00  <MeusH> Darkvater: There is one red&green colourblind person on the forum, who has problems with configuring OpenTTD in "configure patches" window. I think about hint-bubbles (tooltips) that shows "on"/"off" if right-clicked on green/red button. Is it possible? Is it worth implementing?
21:36:02  <French_Tycoon> ok that will do the trick
21:36:09  <French_Tycoon> it's boring her
21:36:20  <French_Tycoon> she canot build hop she throw it away.....
21:36:54  <French_Tycoon> she stood one year so far :)
21:37:49  <French_Tycoon> so thanks all i will continue testing how to handle signals ;)
21:42:39  *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone
21:45:01  <CIA-5> tron * r3911 /trunk/ (rail.h rail_cmd.c rail_map.h): Add functions to retrieve/set the signal variant (electric/semaphore)
21:46:00  <hylje> interesting
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21:54:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> hmm... very strange...
21:55:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> occasionally, when i tell a train to go to the depot
21:55:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> it does not stop there
21:55:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> but leaves again immediately
21:55:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> as if it was just normal check
21:56:50  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: ive had that quite a bit recently. i just assumed it was me
21:56:57  <Fujitsu> As did I...
21:57:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> so obviously, it is not ;)
21:58:03  <Fujitsu> Heh
21:58:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> who was the last guy that screwed around with this part of code? ^^
22:01:05  *** French_Tycoon [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:01:08  <Sacro> lol
22:02:12  *** Pulec [n=Pulcoj@] has quit ["( :: NoNameScript 3.81 :: )"]
22:02:37  <Fujitsu> svn blame is your friend :)
22:03:08  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit ["Whoopsy"]
22:06:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> ?
22:09:50  <Matt-W> So if I had a patch which uses nice pre-existing enum names for the sprites in the toolbar buttons array instead of nasty difficult-to-maintain hard-coded hex numbers, would that be liked?
22:14:23  * Matt-W assumes yes
22:15:12  <MeusH> sir yep sir
22:15:41  <MeusH> "sir" read in Polish means cheese
22:15:42  *** ^Cartman^ [] has joined #openttd
22:15:50  <MeusH> cheese yes cheese
22:16:15  <Matt-W> mmmm cheese
22:16:18  <Matt-W> bad time of day for cheese though
22:16:25  <Matt-W> would give me bad dreams
22:16:31  <MeusH> bad cheese
22:16:44  <BurtyB> cheese good, what are dreams/
22:16:44  <MeusH> evil piece of cheese
22:17:17  <Sacro> damnit, the DWP have given up with
22:17:20  * Matt-W surmises that he should check if the main toolbar is the only piece of huge array definition that needs his attention
22:17:53  <Matt-W> and it's not!
22:17:54  <Matt-W> fabulous
22:19:35  *** Jenkz [] has quit []
22:21:58  <Sacro> grr, stupid jobsearch site using postdata, makes click back so  much harder
22:22:20  <Matt-W> hmm
22:22:36  <Matt-W> not all sprites have entries in the Sprites enum
22:22:48  <Matt-W> and thus no friendly names
22:23:28  <Sacro> and the numbers dont necessarily match up
22:23:45  <Matt-W> what fun
22:24:02  <Matt-W> the stuff for the toolbars defined in main_gui.c seems okay
22:24:10  <Matt-W> as in there are Sprites entries for all of them
22:24:22  <Matt-W> It seems very silly not to use such definitions
22:24:27  <Sacro> coulda sworn that said "widow cleaner" :S
22:25:09  * Matt-W blinks
22:26:44  <MeusH>
22:27:45  <Sacro> hmm
22:27:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> old :)
22:28:16  <glx> but a ood one
22:28:22  <glx> s/ood/good
22:28:55  <Darkvater> MeusH: green/red... not really. The help text clearly says on/off so he can read what it is
22:29:58  *** stefan [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:32:39  <Matt-W> so if anybody ever looks in the patch tracker, my minor cosmetic code-niceness patch is in there now
22:32:58  <Matt-W> and I shall now depart for bed
22:33:38  *** stefan [] has joined #openttd
22:34:05  <glx> Matt-W: is a better place
22:44:02  <Darkvater> fuck
22:44:07  <Darkvater> stop chatting so much people
22:44:13  <Darkvater> it takes ages to read backa  full day :(
22:44:19  <peter1138> heh
22:44:39  <Darkvater> so, just skipped the last 8 hours
22:44:51  <Darkvater> Matt-W: you can code the gui in C++ if you really want, it's supported
22:45:56  <Darkvater> No irritating limits - we really should be able to lose the 32-item limit on things like dropdowns  <-- I can live with this. But a window can only have *gasp* 32 widgets. So any more are manually hacked in
22:46:02  <Sacro> i thought for cross-platformy goodness it had to stay C
22:46:12  *** ^Cartman^ [] has quit ["Que?"]
22:46:49  <Darkvater> no, TrueLight gave in and made C++ crosscompilers for all platforms
22:47:24  <Sacro> lol
22:48:23  *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
22:49:04  <Darkvater> and KUDr_wrk here is doing both PBS and PF in C++
22:49:44  * KUDr is happy that we have TrueLight
22:49:57  <Darkvater> hehe
22:50:18  *** Andrew67 [n=andrew67@] has quit ["Leaving"]
22:50:54  *** stefan [] has quit [Connection reset by peer]
22:51:05  * Vornicus goes back to quietly fiddling with his 3D engine.
22:51:18  *** stefan [] has joined #openttd
22:51:59  *** XeryusW3 is now known as Xeryus|sleep
22:52:27  <Sacro> whoo, KUDr is back :)
22:52:53  * KUDr is not back, KUDr is still here
22:53:01  <Sacro> hmm, same difference
22:53:17  * KUDr never left
22:53:24  <KUDr> :)
22:54:27  <Sacro> you should leave once in a while
22:54:31  <Fujitsu> We can code in C++ now!? TL didn't tell me that...
22:54:49  <Fujitsu> KUDr, how be PBS and PF?
22:55:06  <KUDr> in progress
22:55:15  <KUDr> it takes its time
22:55:25  <KUDr> and i have limited ammount of it
22:55:31  <Fujitsu> Heh. That's life.
22:55:31  <Darkvater> hmm is the 'vehicles suddenly stopping in the middle of the road' buggie fixed?
22:55:34  <Darkvater> Celestar: ?
22:56:13  *** Zr40 [] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:56:15  <ln-> well vehicles don't support off-road driving?
22:57:03  <Sacro> defeats the idea of having a pathfinder
22:58:06  *** Zahl [] has quit ["YOU! It was you wasn't it!?"]
22:58:28  <MeusH> cya
22:58:32  *** MeusH [] has quit ["KVIrc 3.2.0 'Realia'"]
22:59:54  *** Osai^zZz [] has quit []
23:02:46  <Sacro> damnit, its 11pm
23:04:35  <Darkvater> great the forums are down
23:04:40  <Darkvater> just when I am typing a reply
23:04:43  <Darkvater> crivens!
23:05:06  <Sacro> Darkvater: maybe if your quick it might not notice
23:05:18  <TL|Away> Darkvater: let's make one thing very clear: I didn't give in, I just don't want the nightly-stuff to be an excuse. C++ still sucks!
23:05:31  <glx> Darkvater: not only the forums
23:05:35  <Darkvater> TL|Away: well you did give in in making it :)
23:05:53  <TL|Away> Darkvater: no, that is just service
23:05:59  * Sacro goes looking for females online
23:06:10  <Darkvater> TL|Away: :)
23:08:10  <Sacro> hmm, big screen version of Dallas
23:08:20  *** Angst [] has quit [""cal 9 1752""]
23:08:28  <Fujitsu> What's wrong with C++?
23:08:38  <TL|Away> Fujitsu: don't get me started
23:08:41  <Darkvater> what's wrong with the forums?
23:08:47  <Bjarni> it's object orientated
23:08:49  <TL|Away> k, currently all OpenTTD related servers are down, somewhere a network hub died
23:09:01  <Darkvater> ah...:(
23:09:13  <Darkvater> stupid hub
23:09:14  <Sacro> shall i learn LaTeX purely for doing my CV
23:09:27  <Darkvater> it had all fucking day to die, I wasn't here all day
23:09:30  <Darkvater> Sacro: NO
23:09:35  <Darkvater> Sacro: use LyX ;)
23:09:37  <Fujitsu> Yes.
23:09:38  <Fujitsu> LaTeX is good!
23:09:41  <TL|Away> Darkvater: tell me about it
23:09:59  <Sacro> ive had enough of using Word, and OOO runs like a dog, HTML doesnt print nicely
23:10:12  <Sacro> and also HTML doesnt quite seem geeky enough
23:10:20  <Darkvater> TL|Away: did you try reanimation? Some kind of shock-therapy? :p
23:10:28  <TL|Away> Darkvater: not my hub
23:10:32  <TL|Away> currently tracing which hub it is
23:10:35  <Darkvater> I love LaTeX documens, do all my reports in it..awesome layout
23:11:21  <Darkvater> hmm
23:11:29  <Sacro> is there a good website or anything to help me learn it?
23:11:39  <Darkvater> strcmp(ab, abc) or strcmp(abc, ab) <-- these aren't equal, right?
23:11:45  <Darkvater> Sacro: use LyX
23:12:21  <Darkvater> or how does strcmp handle end-of-strings? Kinda confused :s
23:13:00  <Sacro> looks like i need to go back into linux
23:13:09  <Darkvater> there is a windows version
23:13:19  <Darkvater> I know, I've used it
23:13:56  <Sacro> yeah, found it
23:14:30  <Sacro> incoming now
23:14:30  *** SchAmane [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
23:14:58  <Sacro> but why is it better than LaTeX?
23:15:06  <Prof_Frink> It's easier
23:15:14  <Darkvater> because you don't have to learn all the cryptic commands
23:15:20  <Darkvater> it's just a graphical frontend kinda
23:15:26  <Darkvater> like Word, but not gay
23:15:53  <Sacro> hehe
23:16:10  <Sacro> damnit, most of the local call centre jobs are for the debt collection company thats after me
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23:17:36  <Sacro> im getting 223KB/sec here, that cant be right
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23:18:34  <BurtyB> not enough for you Sacro?
23:18:53  <Sacro> BurtyB: i wish i could afford to get it myself]
23:28:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> hey... is there a way to turn the fences off?
23:28:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> i hate them ;)
23:28:55  <Sacro> keep rebuilding your lines
23:29:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> :p
23:29:13  <glx> decrease detail level
23:29:19  <Fujitsu> Yeah. They are really annoying.
23:29:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, i want details
23:29:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> just not the fences
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23:37:17  <Darkvater> Eddi|zuHause2: comment out the drawing code
23:37:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> where would i find that line? ;)
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23:38:13  <Darkvater> DrawTrackFence :)
23:38:42  <Darkvater> because I am nice: rail_cmd.c:1358 in SVN HEAD
23:38:51  <Fujitsu> That is a good idea for an option....
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23:39:03  <Fujitsu> The fences can make things look very cluttered
23:39:15  <Fujitsu> (although electrified rail is much, much worse)
23:39:36  <Sacro> it does look cluttered i admit
23:39:40  <Sacro> but then it does IRL
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23:41:51  <Sacro> youd think zends regex examples would correct
23:41:54  <Sacro> *be
23:46:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> *mental note, close program before compiling*
23:48:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> looks like it works ;)
23:50:49  <Sacro> lol
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23:58:30  <Sacro> ho hum

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