Log for #openttd on 25th March 2006:
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00:20:38  <black_Nightmare> blah...nothing good on multiplayer and abandoned twice too... :-S
00:21:51  <RichK> load up r4072, use pb_ukrs.grf, pb_hovs_bus.grf, pb_viaduct, and go look at Brianetta's nightly
00:22:08  <RichK> uses the new terrain generator
00:22:16  <Brianetta> mmhmm
00:22:30  <RichK> problems??
00:22:35  <Brianetta> Get the grfs and password from
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00:44:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> <- damn, i am out of those :p
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01:06:40  <gradator> hi
01:09:11  <ThePizzaKing> Hi gradator
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01:55:05  <CobraA3> My debugger isn't working :(
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01:55:37  <Vornicus> Percussive maintenance time!
01:56:05  <CobraA3> I toss in an assert(false) and the debugger can't find which line threw the assertion.
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02:07:37  <CobraA3> The debugger can't find my language files - where is MSVC++ looking for my files?
02:08:56  <Belugas> the debugger ask for your language files???
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02:09:59  <CobraA3> strgen.c, line 860
02:10:55  <Belugas> strgen is only used during compilation, not run time.  let me test it
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02:11:47  <Belugas> well... compilation.. kindda
02:12:45  <CobraA3> The debugger starts running in strgen.c, line 1191.
02:12:45  <CobraA3> int CDECL main(int argc, char* argv[])
02:13:24  <CobraA3> Calls ParseFile in line 1233
02:14:14  <Belugas> can you watch which file he's trying to open?
02:14:50  <Belugas> rebuilt all, no problem on my side.
02:15:42  <CobraA3> I just need to know where the debugger is trying to access lang/english.txt so I can place my files in the correct folder to debug with.
02:16:48  <CobraA3> There's nothing wrong, it's just that my computer isn't set up right for debugging.
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02:18:24  <glx> strgen should not be runned from strgen dir but from root dir of openttd
02:18:41  <Belugas> i'm using MSV6.  And lang files are in lang folder, both the sources and the compiled ones
02:18:48  <Belugas> both for debug and release.
02:19:06  <CobraA3> So my debugger is trying to run it from the strgen dir?
02:19:16  <glx> I think so
02:19:36  <CobraA3> Should my debugger even be trying to run strgen?
02:20:27  <Belugas> no, unless...
02:21:06  <Belugas> Menu Build, Set Active Configuration.  What did you set ?
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02:22:11  <CobraA3> Debug
02:22:15  <black_Nightmare> hey
02:23:36  <Belugas> hemm... which?  I have Langs (debug),strgen (debug/release) and openttd (debug/release)
02:24:52  <black_Nightmare> little question...what would green/red dots mean in the multiplayer game lobby?
02:24:59  <black_Nightmare> or is that profit?
02:25:11  <CobraA3> I'm gonna try cleaning the whole solution . . .
02:26:24  <CobraA3> Ah, strgen is boldfaced, must mean it's active. That could be a problem :)
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02:30:34  <Belugas> you're not using MSV6, don't you?
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03:14:26  <DJFire> hola >_<
03:20:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> [25.03. 03:27] <black_Nightmare> little question...what would green/red dots mean in the multiplayer game lobby? <- i believe that is version compatibility
03:20:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> damn
03:20:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> he left
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03:56:30  <CIA-5> belugas * r4098 /branch/elrail/ (34 files in 7 dirs): [elrail] Merged from trunk r4079:r4097
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07:22:56  <CIA-5> bjarni * r4099 /trunk/video/cocoa_v.m: -Codechange: [OSX] the cocoa video driver speedup of around 1000% now also applies to Intel macs
07:23:54  <MiHaMiX> mornin'
07:24:04  <Bjarni> morning MiHaMiX
07:24:26  <Fujitsu> Morning MiHaMiX.
07:25:30  <peter1138> morning
07:25:55  * MiHaMiX tries to fix a bug in WT2 which he introduced yesterday when he added new funcionality :D
07:28:07  <Fujitsu> WT2?
07:28:23  <MiHaMiX> Fujitsu: webtranslator 2
07:28:31  <Fujitsu> Ahh
07:28:31  <Fujitsu> OK
07:28:57  <Fujitsu> I remember you were one of the first people I talked to when I first joined the TTD-related world...
07:31:30  <peter1138> Celestar: hmm
07:34:30  <MiHaMiX> Fujitsu: :)
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07:35:48  <MiHaMiX> ok, lemme deal with this bug :)
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07:40:38  <CIA-5> bjarni * r4100 /branch/0.4/video/cocoa_v.m:
07:40:38  <CIA-5> -Backported 4082 and 4099
07:40:38  <CIA-5>  the cocoa driver no longer crashes when going to fullscreen (this one depended on the resolution)
07:40:38  <CIA-5>  teh cocoa driver speedup of around 1000% applies to Intel macs, so the driver is now just as fast as the PPC one
07:40:44  <peter1138> r4100...
07:40:58  <peter1138> ahh, i just updated before cia saw it ;p
07:41:07  <peter1138> teh cocoa driver!
07:41:18  <Bjarni> I just noticed that as well :/
07:41:23  <Bjarni> oh well
07:41:35  <Bjarni> in a day or two, nobody is going to read this anyway
07:41:47  <Fujitsu> ?
07:42:19  <Bjarni> it's not like a whole lot of people read what we backported to the 0.4 branch
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07:43:13  <Fujitsu> Why would you backport things to 0.4?
07:43:33  <Bjarni> 	<peter1138>	ahh, i just updated before cia saw it ;p <-- CIA was slow this time. I updated as well and got the Email for the update before it wrote anything
07:43:42  <Bjarni> Fujitsu: bug fix release
07:43:52  <Fujitsu> Of course.
07:44:07  <Bjarni> not affected by the new stuff we added (with bugs)
07:44:19  <Bjarni> well, that was the idea, but it didn't really work the first time :p
07:45:13  <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: on the basis of 'Release early, release often', I think, we'll have a 0.4.7 as well :)
07:46:22  * MiHaMiX just loves SVN. The source of WT2 is also in SVN, and now I know, that the bug was introduced at around r154
07:46:27  <Bjarni> MiHaMiX: no, we just released. Now we got a release ban for two months :p
07:46:31  <MiHaMiX> so i just need to see a diff :)
07:46:46  <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: hehh? on sourceforge?
07:47:03  <peter1138> no, bjarni says so :)
07:47:09  <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: ahh :D
07:47:21  <Tron> Bjarni: i'm tend more twoards "release when you ffs tested what you did"
07:47:37  <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: i don't think that our release technique has nothing to improve :)
07:47:48  <MiHaMiX> Tron: ffs?
07:49:22  <Tron> For F... Sake
07:49:43  <MiHaMiX> Tron: still don't understand, but never mind :)
07:50:09  <Bjarni> actually I tried to make a joke about the lack of releases in the past year
07:50:17  <Tron> "Fine - just another four letter F-word"
07:50:48  <MiHaMiX> :DD
07:51:06  <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: ahh, ok, I got it, it was just a morning-effect on me :)
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08:03:22  <peter1138> hmm
08:08:58  <CIA-5> peter1138 * r4101 /branch/elrail/train_cmd.c: [elrail] Fix realistic acceleration for electric engines.
08:13:38  <Patrick`> ok, now apply that to trunk
08:13:52  <peter1138> but then trunk wouldn't compile
08:14:00  <Patrick`> ah.
08:23:07  <peter1138> ]]]]]]]]]]]ggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggtgggggggggtAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA QQ  QAA
08:23:52  <Fujitsu> Nice.
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08:30:39  <MagicJohn> Right.
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08:45:34  <CIA-5> bjarni * r4102 /branch/0.4/ (5 files in 3 dirs):
08:45:34  <CIA-5> -Backported 3673, 3674, 3675, 3679, 3682, 3882, 3884 [all OSX]
08:45:34  <CIA-5>  added support for G5 (ppc970) optimised code
08:45:34  <CIA-5>  added support for triple binaries (ppc, ppc970, i386)
08:45:34  <CIA-5>  updated the makefile to handle building of universal and triple in a more automated way (way less flags to set)
08:45:36  <CIA-5>  now it's no longer needed to spent minutes setting up flags when releasing. It works out of the box :)
08:45:40  <CIA-5>  note: even though it looks like it's a lot of commits, it really is that there changes were introduced in small pieces in the trunk
08:47:30  <Patrick`> ooh
08:47:46  <Patrick`> triple binaries as in "not running through rosetta on a macbook pro" ?
08:50:32  <egladil> it already did that (unless i remember totally wrong)
08:50:34  <Bjarni> yes
08:51:05  <Bjarni> it already had universal binary support, I just added G5 optimised code as well
08:51:23  <Bjarni> making use of the advanced stuff in the CPU, that G3 and G4 can't :)
08:53:08  <CIA-5> bjarni * r4103 /trunk/docs/OSX_why_multiple_applications.txt: updated mac documentation to mention the fact that it's a triple binary
08:53:46  <MiHaMiX> okay, bug fixed
08:53:54  <MiHaMiX> let's go away :)
08:54:11  <CIA-5> bjarni * r4104 /branch/0.4/docs/OSX_why_multiple_applications.txt: -Backported 4102: updated OSX docs about triple binary
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08:55:52  <Bjarni> MiHaMiX: yeah, let's leave while we think everything is bug free :)
08:56:46  <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: :P
08:57:31  <Bjarni> the good part about rev 4102 is that I no longer have to spend ages setting up a lot of flags, that I later figured out in the trunk that we didn't really need. Now more or less everything is done automatically even when targeting multiple CPUs
09:00:51  <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: I meant, we're going to visit my wife's parents
09:00:59  <Bjarni> ahh
09:01:23  <Bjarni> that's kind of like the same as leaving when you fixed a bug and before somebody screams that you made a new one ;)
09:02:00  <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: noone could scream, since I'm the only person who has access to WT2 ATM
09:02:11  <Bjarni> heh
09:02:28  <Bjarni> you would when you learn that it's completely broken :p
09:04:03  <guru3> anyone know swedish here?
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09:08:01  <Bjarni> I guess egladil might know Swedish
09:08:06  <egladil> i might
09:08:25  <Bjarni> I might as well (at least understand it)
09:08:32  <guru3> what's a plattsättare?
09:08:58  <Bjarni> hmm
09:09:08  <egladil> that is a proffession
09:09:19  <guru3> what do they do?
09:09:28  <Bjarni> yeah, but platt placing... what is platt?
09:09:49  <egladil> tile
09:10:03  <egladil> they place tiles on floors and stuff
09:10:06  <Bjarni> ahh
09:10:15  <Bjarni> of course
09:10:58  <egladil> though i must say i've never seen that particular word befor :)
09:11:09  <Bjarni> same here
09:11:57  <MiHaMiX> okay folks
09:12:05  * MiHaMiX going to leave for the weekend
09:12:18  <egladil> guru3: why do you need to know that?
09:12:18  <Bjarni> specially when it comes to professions/titles, there are a lot of them we never heard before ;)
09:12:20  * MiHaMiX is offline until sunday evening
09:12:22  <Bjarni> bye MiHaMiX
09:12:23  <MiHaMiX> bye
09:12:28  <Bjarni> have fun with your mother in law
09:12:29  <egladil> yeah
09:12:31  <Bjarni> err
09:12:36  <Bjarni> don't misread that one :p
09:12:36  <egladil> oops
09:12:46  <guru3> egladil: i didn't, my mom did ><
09:14:19  <Bjarni> I remember when I should read a Swedish text at school. We just got it and should read it for the next day. It took me a while to figure out what "vexlar" is :p
09:14:34  <egladil> still, why the need for a swedish tile placing worker?
09:14:37  <egladil> vexlar?
09:14:43  <Bjarni> yeah
09:14:44  <egladil> thats not a swedish word
09:14:54  <Bjarni> maybe I misspelled it
09:14:55  <guru3> i live in sweden
09:15:00  <guru3> and our bathroom floor needs new tile
09:15:01  <guru3> ergo.
09:15:06  <guru3> or QED rather.
09:15:08  <Bjarni> it's the switches on the railroad track
09:15:16  <egladil> ah, växlar
09:16:11  <Bjarni> it was hmmm interesting to read a text where I knew so much about the topic, but they used "strange" words
09:16:12  <egladil> guru3: du bor i sverige, men du talar inte svenska?
09:16:25  <Bjarni> yeah, that's what I wondered about too
09:16:27  <guru3> jag kan pratar en lite svenska
09:16:42  <guru3> men jag har inte so manga ord
09:16:51  <guru3> och mycket fel grammar
09:16:53  <egladil> ok
09:16:56  <guru3> and no swedish keyboard ;/
09:16:57  <Bjarni> >_<
09:17:05  <Bjarni> where are you from?
09:17:09  <Bjarni> originally
09:17:14  <guru3> i'm from the states
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09:17:28  <Bjarni> ahh, that explains it :p
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09:17:39  <guru3> haha
09:18:09  <guru3> well, there you go
09:18:12  <egladil> so, why sweden?
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09:18:24  <guru3> my mom got a job here
09:18:25  <Bjarni> to get Swedish girls
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09:18:30  <Bjarni> they talk about them in USA
09:19:01  <egladil> ah, of course :)
09:19:07  <egladil> should have thought about that
09:19:11  <guru3> heh
09:19:27  <egladil> by living here you get so used to them you almost forget :)
09:19:40  <guru3> hahahaha
09:20:00  <Bjarni> o_O
09:20:11  <Bjarni> you forget about girls???
09:20:15  <Bjarni> are you gay or something?
09:20:34  <Patrick`> and what if he is
09:21:05  <Bjarni> I don't know
09:21:22  <egladil> not about girls
09:21:30  <egladil> about swedish girls being special
09:21:57  <Bjarni> btw I don't get how Swedish girls should be so special
09:22:12  <peter1138> bah, i want to use my c++ code now ;(
09:22:14  <CIA-5> Darkvater * r4105 /trunk/ (9 files):
09:22:14  <CIA-5> - Feature: Add proper ISO-8859-15 <> LOCALCODE conversion. As the mess that is
09:22:14  <CIA-5> makefile can't properly support it at the moment, it is only available for
09:22:14  <CIA-5> MACOSX. Windows doesn't need FS conversion and I have no idea about OS/2 so it's
09:22:14  <CIA-5> disabled for them.
09:22:14  <CIA-5> - CodeChange: Change the function GetCurrentLocale(). It returns the locale from some default environment-variables, plus a custom one defined as parameter. If all fail, it tries $LANG.
09:22:18  <Bjarni> I mean what makes them any different from Danish or Norwegian girls (apart from the language)
09:22:30  <guru3> have you ever been to denmark or norway?
09:22:36  <Bjarni> yeah
09:22:41  <peter1138> morning DarkSSH
09:22:41  <DarkSSH> guru3: he IS danish
09:22:44  <DarkSSH> morning
09:22:44  <guru3> well
09:22:48  <guru3> crap on me then.
09:22:57  <Bjarni> I have also been to Sweden ;)
09:23:10  <egladil> well, i'd say norwegian girls are more special than swedish
09:23:21  <guru3> personally i would argue for swedish girls
09:23:33  * guru3 doesn't believe he's actually getting involved in a discussion over this
09:24:01  <egladil> :)
09:24:09  <Bjarni> well
09:24:11  <Bjarni> this reminds me
09:24:17  <guru3> of what?
09:25:10  <Bjarni> a guy once told me that he went to a bar and while he was there, a Swedish girl came in and said loud something like she was there to "knulla" and a moment later she left with a guy o_O
09:25:38  <Bjarni> I don't think that's the normal approach for Swedish girls though
09:26:06  <guru3> haha
09:26:23  <guru3> that's hillarious
09:26:23  <egladil> not really
09:26:33  <guru3> is if you're american x)
09:26:52  <Bjarni> I have to say I have never seen anything like that
09:27:07  <egladil> me neither
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09:29:26  <guru3> i'm at slight disadvantage in that i don't go clubbing
09:29:30  <guru3> but odds are i'll never see it
09:31:44  <peter1138>
09:31:58  <Tron> <-- i cannot confirm this
09:33:08  <Patrick`> peter1138: hmm
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09:33:18  <DarkSSH> he MS released the source code to Mech Warrior 2
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09:33:49  <Tron> Mech Commander 2
09:33:59  <DarkSSH> :)
09:34:08  <Tron> you're even slower than /.
09:34:22  <Tron> and more wrong, that's really hard to achieve (;
09:34:57  <Patrick`> link? I can't find it
09:35:28  <Tron> pretty much any tech news related site in the last 4 days or so
09:36:13  <Patrick`> other than slashdot
09:36:36  <DarkSSH> well just readit :)
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09:38:03  <Bjarni> DarkSSH: your last commit broke saving on mac if it contains the chars in question :(
09:38:29  <DarkSSH> why?
09:38:36  <Bjarni> well, it just failed
09:38:51  <DarkSSH> why?
09:39:03  <Bjarni> I didn't investigate it yet, but it said dbg: [iconv] Cannot convert from codeset 'ISO-8859-15' to 'UTF-8-MAC' when loading
09:39:15  <Bjarni> and dbg: [Sl] Cannot open savegame for saving/loading. for saving
09:39:25  <Bjarni> and I got the red error box when saving
09:39:31  <DarkSSH> loading should be utf->iso
09:40:07  <DarkSSH> eh, nvm that
09:40:07  <Bjarni> hmm, yeah, they appears to be switched or something
09:40:10  <DarkSSH> can you debug?
09:40:36  <Bjarni> I can... after a complete recompile
09:42:26  <DarkSSH> it seems iconv_open fails for you
09:42:55  <Bjarni> hmm
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09:46:19  <Tron> <Tron> <-- i cannot confirm this
09:46:51  <DarkSSH> *sigh*
09:47:21  <DarkSSH> there, feedback asked :)
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09:49:13  <Tron> i tested it locally with two instances of ottd
09:49:22  <Tron> global and private messages work fine
09:49:33  <Celestar> morning peops
09:49:39  <DarkSSH> yeah works for me as well
09:51:45  <Celestar> peter1138: just testing your diff
09:52:30  <Tron> which diff?
09:54:43  <egladil> what is openttd.tgt?
09:55:14  <Celestar> Tron: about elrails on convrail
09:55:59  <Tron> Celestar: do pure electric trains stop before entering a non-electrified track?
09:56:23  <Celestar> Tron: they act as if the track would end
09:56:31  <Tron> good
09:57:00  <Tron> and mixed trains happily enter it?
09:57:01  <egladil> looks like it could be the os2 project file...
09:57:13  <Celestar> Tron: the diff is not yet finished, but that how it will happen.
09:57:22  <Tron> egladil: do _NOT_ touch it, it is _extremly_ fragile
09:57:33  <egladil> ok
09:57:39  <peter1138> hehe, it is :)
09:58:00  <DarkSSH> don't even OPEN it
09:58:04  <DarkSSH> it's horrid
09:58:09  <egladil> i noticed
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10:02:48  <CIA-5> egladil * r4106 /branch/32bpp/ (10 files in 2 dirs): [32bpp] -Preparations for making a new spritecache, seperate from the sprite loaders.
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10:08:14  <DarkSSH> <-- food
10:08:18  <DarkSSH>  even OPEN it
10:14:54  <DarkSSH> Bjarni: I want open apologies :)
10:15:10  <DarkSSH> public even
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10:15:55  <CIA-5> Darkvater * r4107 /trunk/unix.c: - Fix (r4105): Mixup of string parameters in debug message if iconv_open() failed. Also clarify the message a bit.
10:16:09  <Hinrik> why are there no scenarios bundled with openttd-0.4.6 ?
10:16:37  <DarkSSH> because the person that made the installer screwed up?
10:16:40  <DarkSSH> Hinrik: what OS?
10:16:43  <Bjarni> ok, DarkSSH's code works. Fink fucked up and use it's own lib (which miss the charset used by the OSX filesystem) instead of the iconv that is present in OSX 10.3+, which got that charset
10:16:44  <Hinrik> no installer
10:16:53  <Bjarni> source release?
10:16:57  <Hinrik> using tar.gz
10:16:58  <Bjarni> or svn release?
10:16:59  <Hinrik> yes
10:17:07  <Hinrik> openttd-0.4.6-source.tar.gz
10:17:12  <DarkSSH> source does not have scenarios
10:17:18  <Hinrik> why not?
10:17:23  <Bjarni> why not?
10:17:31  <DarkSSH> because it makes it much biggr and was decided against it
10:17:43  <Bjarni> I can't remember that
10:17:55  <Hinrik> does this mean that distros like Gentoo have to download the binary/installer also, to get scenarios?
10:18:09  <Bjarni> it appears so
10:18:14  <DarkSSH> no
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10:18:23  <DarkSSH>
10:18:30  * DarkSSH should put that up on the webpage
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10:18:37  <Hinrik> on sourceforce, yeah
10:18:37  <Bjarni> your homepage is not known in public, only in here
10:18:42  <DarkSSH> :P
10:18:45  <DarkSSH> SF then
10:18:50  <DarkSSH> bleh
10:18:58  <DarkSSH> I have no ftp client here
10:19:03  <DarkSSH> Bjarni: could you do the honours?
10:19:19  <DarkSSH> perhaps unpack them and repack as tar.gz/tar.bz2?
10:19:20  <DarkSSH> brb
10:19:37  <Hinrik> zip is fine
10:19:43  <Tron> DarkSSH: packing them at all is rather pointless
10:19:45  <Hinrik> more people use zip :P
10:20:00  <Tron> just a plain .tar should be fine
10:20:13  <DarkSSH> I was under the impression that *nix people preferred tar.gz or tar.bz2 instead of zip
10:20:27  <Hinrik> I was thinking of windows folks
10:20:28  <egladil> we do
10:20:31  <Hinrik> who are  building from source
10:20:48  <Hinrik> windows can't unpack .tar without external programs
10:20:55  <Bjarni> I'm just going to move the file, not repack it
10:21:13  <Fujitsu> Few Windows folks build from source...
10:22:18  <Hinrik> you might as well put a version number on that scenario file
10:22:32  <Hinrik> if more get added
10:24:49  <Bjarni> <-- if we add that, then people will download it and then notice that they are in the binary releases as well
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10:25:38  <Bjarni> openttd_0.4.6-1_i386.deb <-- this file is even smaller than the source. I don't think it contains the scenarios
10:26:06  <MistrX> yay, I found you guys!
10:26:07  <MistrX> :)
10:26:21  <Patrick`> yay for us?
10:26:34  <MistrX> not really =D
10:26:41  <Hinrik> so, windows binary releases contain scenarios but not debian releases? a bit inconsistent...
10:26:43  <Bjarni> ...
10:26:46  <Bjarni> another Dutch guy
10:27:07  <Bjarni> Hinrik: all binary releases except the debian one. I think it's by mistake
10:27:16  <Hinrik> ok
10:27:24  <MistrX> what's wrong with Dutch? :P
10:27:51  <Hinrik> I think it's a bit weird to leave something out of the source release, feels like that should contain *everything*
10:28:03  <Bjarni> MistrX: nothing... I guess
10:28:50  <Hinrik> Bjarni: you could call it openttd-0.4.6-source-scenarios.tar.gz ...
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10:30:04  <MistrX> So, I heard that a new official release for openttd will be released tommorow? Because of the pathfinding bug. That right?
10:30:59  <Tron> where do you have this "information" from?
10:31:05  <MistrX> forum
10:31:17  <MistrX> let's see if I got a link
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10:31:52  <MistrX>
10:32:22  <DarkSSH> Tron: fomr me
10:32:42  <Hinrik> but "" is the most futureproof, that way you don't need to add a new scenario file when the next release comes, unless there are more scenarios added
10:32:46  <MistrX> true :)
10:32:52  <DarkSSH> just say
10:32:58  <DarkSSH>
10:33:03  <DarkSSH> I mean
10:33:08  <DarkSSH>
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10:34:11  <Fujitsu> Evening, ThePizzaKing.
10:34:25  <MistrX> morning, TPK :)
10:34:36  <ThePizzaKing> Yes, evening Fujitsu
10:34:41  <ThePizzaKing> and good morning to you MistrX
10:35:37  <gradator> my openttd (0.4.6) crashes when I want to see (as spectator) the game running on the "Official OpenTTD Server #1" server, you too ?
10:36:34  <gradator> and it is fully reproductible
10:38:30  <CIA-5> tron * r4108 /trunk/ (industry_cmd.c industry_map.h): Add [GS]etIndustryGfx()
10:39:11  <ThePizzaKing> gradator: Do you have any NewGRF's on?
10:39:17  <gradator> no
10:39:30  <gradator> "openttd: pool.h:51: GetItemFromPool: Assertion `index < pool->total_items' failed."
10:39:48  <gradator> same when I create a new company on the game
10:39:50  <ThePizzaKing> I get bitten by the newGRF one from time to time :)
10:40:38  <ThePizzaKing> well, I have no idea, back to that english essay for me
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10:43:02  <Hinrik> Bjarni: if you're going to release soon, then you can add "+scenarios" to the filenames of the binary releases to indicate that they are included, then no one will accidentally download them twice
10:43:27  <Celestar> Tron: ping
10:43:37  <Fujitsu>!? 0.4.6 has only been out 3 days!
10:43:58  <Hinrik> Fujitsu: apparently it still has a critical bug
10:44:06  <Fujitsu> Which one?
10:44:11  <Fujitsu> The one gradator just reported?
10:44:22  <Hinrik> no, something related to NPF
10:44:33  <Celestar> Fujitsu: what did gradator report?
10:44:36  <Hinrik> has been fixed, but only in svn
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10:44:56  <Fujitsu> Oh.
10:45:00  <Fujitsu> So not that one.
10:45:08  <Celestar> Fujitsu: explain?
10:45:13  <Celestar> MORE critical bugs in 0.4.6?
10:45:18  <Fujitsu> ^^^
10:45:26  <Celestar> Fujitsu: if so, point me to them
10:45:50  <Fujitsu> Well, just a mention of reproducible crashes, just up above.
10:46:18  <Celestar> gradator: will check if possible
10:46:32  <Celestar> gradator: did you report that on
10:46:43  <Celestar> if not, do so and set urgency to critical
10:46:50  <Fujitsu> What is the known issue with 0.4.6?
10:46:50  <Hinrik> I don't think he has reported it yet
10:46:54  <Hinrik> < gradator> my openttd (0.4.6) crashes when I want to see (as spectator) the game running on the "Official OpenTTD Server #1" server, you too ?
10:47:07  <gradator> Celestar: I will, now ;)
10:47:23  <DarkSSH> ah fuck
10:47:33  <DarkSSH> I remember this bug
10:47:38  <Celestar> gradator: thanks ;)
10:47:40  <DarkSSH>
10:47:42  <Celestar> kind of.
10:47:42  <DarkSSH> there
10:47:47  <DarkSSH> fucking station handling
10:48:27  <DarkSSH> I quote
10:48:33  <DarkSSH> "On updating the station ratings the station's last vehicle is an invalid one (st->last_vehicle).
10:48:37  <DarkSSH> There is no functionality in the code for handling situations with a station where the last vehicle has been already deleted.
10:48:40  <DarkSSH> I propose not storing last_vehicle but only the last vehicle type to fix this problem. As far as I can see from the code, only GetVehicle(st->last_vehicle)->type is used."
10:49:27  <Celestar> that does sound like a sensible option DarkSSH
10:49:39  <DarkSSH> but now I must be off because I have another hockey-game within an hour :)
10:49:43  <DarkSSH> against Norway ^^
10:49:52  <Fujitsu> Bye.
10:50:16  <DarkSSH> Celestar: and we still have the cargo-payment thing if station is deleted. Tile is 0, so you get paid from tile 0, not from station :(
10:50:40  <DarkSSH> Saturday, March 25th 2006 10:50 GMT, Currently there are 72 servers online \o/
10:50:47  <Celestar> DarkSSH: I know. but without cargopackets I hardly see any way around it.
10:50:58  <Celestar> ok guys I need to do some work, back in like 60 minutes.
10:51:02  <DarkSSH> Celestar: well store the tile the cargo came from, not the station :)
10:51:06  <DarkSSH> then get the station from the tile
10:51:13  <DarkSSH> easy as pie
10:51:16  <Celestar> that's an option.
10:51:19  <DarkSSH> (this rhymes)
10:51:21  <DarkSSH> hehe
10:51:26  <Celestar> DarkSSH: can you assign that to me?
10:51:29  <DarkSSH> now I must offski
10:51:31  <DarkSSH> Celestar: which one/
10:51:39  <DarkSSH> both?
10:51:53  <Bjarni> I can if DarkSSH have to leave
10:52:11  <Bjarni> I still can if DarkSSH stays, but that's not important here ;)
10:52:21  <Celestar> DarkSSH: ok gimme both :)
10:52:23  <DarkSSH> :)
10:52:32  <Celestar> DarkSSH: should both be cleared before ?
10:52:42  <DarkSSH> hmm, the crash should
10:52:49  <DarkSSH> the other is not THAT urgent
10:52:53  <DarkSSH> been there for a year
10:53:14  <Qball> so why fix it
10:53:32  <Qball> it's been there so long it's no longer a bug, but a feature
10:53:33  <DarkSSH> because it's wrong
10:53:42  * Qball was sarcastic
10:53:50  <DarkSSH> Celestar:
10:53:56  <DarkSSH> it's already assigned to you :O
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10:54:32  <Bjarni> I just added, so we can assign tasks to be due in that version
10:55:39  <Naksu>
10:56:38  <DarkSSH> dammit I'm really off
10:57:20  <Fujitsu> Bye.
10:57:50  * Bjarni hexes Naksu
10:58:26  <Bjarni> !slap Naksu
10:58:28  <jmp_ghli> >Bjarni> Bjarni believes that Naksu names his children after one of the latest releases of gnome. That geek...
10:58:32  <Bjarni> it's C++
10:59:35  <Fujitsu> Heheh
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11:03:54  <gradator> Celestar: sent ;)
11:05:47  <hylje> does ottd use sdl in all platforms
11:06:08  <Fujitsu> No.
11:06:09  <Bjarni> no
11:06:25  <hylje> mac uses cocoa and windows dx?
11:06:34  <Bjarni> it can, but it's not the best solution
11:07:57  <Hinrik> ROFL,
11:11:13  <Qball> openttd: gfx.c:142: GfxFillRect: Assertion `bottom > 0' failed.
11:11:13  <Qball> Aborted
11:11:15  <Qball> grrrrrrr
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11:17:04  <black_Nightmare> hey
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11:18:51  <Bjarni> <Hinrik>	ROFL, <-- sounds like a normal OTTD bug report
11:20:03  <Bjarni> like the one where a guy had a vehicle window open and he opened the road/rail/whatever toolbar and it also opened the terraforming toolbar and he bugreported it because the terraforming toolbar opened inside the vehicle window (in reality it was on top of it)
11:20:37  <gradator> hahaha
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11:21:49  <Bjarni> btw it was the same guy, who edited his config file to make trains look 0 tiles ahead and then complained about a broken pathfinder
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11:22:31  <black_Nightmare> bjarni..that is one weird person whoever he is ^_^
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11:23:02  <Bjarni> well, he was British after all
11:23:09  <Patrick`> I spent half an hour yesterday playing inside a maximised viewport and I only realised when I tried to click-zoom on the map
11:23:26  <Bjarni> hehe
11:23:51  <Bjarni> why didn't you write a bug report that the minimap was broken?
11:24:00  <Bjarni> some people would have done that
11:24:29  <Patrick`> my internet was down, which had nothing to do with unplugging my route
11:24:30  <Patrick`> r
11:32:12  <Celestar> DiagDirToAxis(DirToDiagDir(u->direction))
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11:40:35  <Celestar> it works\o/
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11:41:34  <Qball> openttd: network.c:1158: NetworkHandleLocalQueue: Assertion `0' failed.
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11:41:39  <Qball> it's going creat
11:41:45  <Qball> great
11:42:06  <Celestar> wtwtf?
11:42:06  <Qball> and my pw got removed
11:42:08  * black_Nightmare finds multiplayer a bit see several companies that have all-outdated trains and the how long has the player been away for?! heh
11:42:56  <Celestar> back later
11:43:54  <Qball> that is till no excuse for crashing mp games
11:45:35  <black_Nightmare> quick question... 0.4.6 is a night build right?
11:45:47  <black_Nightmare> just curious as I saw a few 0.4.6 servers in the network list
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11:48:06  <Patrick`> nope
11:48:14  <Patrick`> it was a proper release with a bit of a bug
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11:48:41  <Patrick`> Celestar: hows siggui?
11:48:44  <Patrick`> *how's
11:48:47  <black_Nightmare> patrick...oh ok ty
11:48:55  <black_Nightmare> was wondering about the two different version of servers
11:48:55  <Patrick`> I got ill and left at 3700
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11:50:23  <black_Nightmare> oh ** .. got kicked off a game again by server
11:50:26  <black_Nightmare> *sigh*
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12:12:32  <Celestar> hey peops
12:12:42  <Celestar> Patrick`: I'm somewhere near rev 3900
12:12:59  <Celestar> Tron: are you anywhere near?
12:15:32  <Patrick`> yarr
12:18:49  <Celestar> DarkSSH: ping
12:22:18  <Tron> Celestar: he's playing hockey
12:22:33  <Celestar> oh
12:25:52  <Celestar> and I'm stuck with this goddamn bug
12:26:03  <Tron> which bug?
12:26:30  <ThePizzaKing> night all
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12:27:06  <Celestar>
12:27:07  <Celestar> this one
12:28:17  <black_Nightmare> there were unlimited vehicle number but seem not
12:28:27  * black_Nightmare wonders how to fix that
12:28:49  <Tron> nothing can be unlimited on any existing machine
12:28:56  <Celestar> I have a fix.
12:29:01  <Celestar> I need someone to proofread it
12:29:22  <black_Nightmare> tron..yeah but I need to add another plane for the station is overfilling up.. ^_^
12:29:48  <Tron> uh, about 64 thousand vehicles should be enough for some time
12:30:38  <black_Nightmare> 64 thousand?  there's a lot less than that now
12:30:55  <black_Nightmare> I've got only 27 trains (over half are dual-engine) too
12:31:46  <C-Otto> i had 120!
12:31:55  <C-Otto>
12:32:30  <DjViper> you never build mainlines etc?
12:32:36  <DjViper> what a mess!
12:32:45  <black_Nightmare> well....I did a count and there's only 86 vehicles total in the game now
12:32:54  <black_Nightmare> sure I can build more vehicles than that?
12:33:34  <black_Nightmare> c-otto...what kind of map is that?
12:33:38  <black_Nightmare> lot of cities
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12:34:42  <C-Otto> DjViper: i have a single mainline, which is at the very border
12:34:50  <C-Otto> DjViper: that is absolutely no mess and works perfectly
12:34:58  <C-Otto> black_Nightmare: nothing special...
12:35:21  <Celestar> peter1138: you happen to have a minute?
12:36:36  <black_Nightmare> anyone mind telling me if I could reconfigure the game to allow more vehicles or I have to start over fresh?
12:36:46  <Celestar> you can do it during the game
12:36:51  <Patrick`> yes, try reading all the patch options
12:37:02  <black_Nightmare> ty
12:39:21  <black_Nightmare> hmm dumb question but did you meant in the openttd console or on desktop?
12:39:36  <Celestar> ?
12:40:45  <Bjarni> <-- we need bridges like this :D
12:41:09  <Celestar> Bjarni: what do you mean?
12:41:14  <Celestar> I see a straght bridge.
12:41:18  <black_Nightmare> why? :p
12:41:27  <Qball> we need bridges over diagonal tracks
12:41:34  <Celestar> Qball: that is in the working.
12:41:34  <black_Nightmare> qball...agreed
12:41:42  <Bjarni> I see a combined road/rail bridge
12:41:52  <AciD> bridge on which cars and trains can go
12:41:59  <Celestar> Tram bridge :P
12:42:11  <Celestar> Qball: give Tron a bit more time.
12:42:29  <black_Nightmare> hm....*wonders if I should play this map anymore*
12:42:36  <Celestar> ok and which of you feels like drawing sprites for me?
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12:44:04  <Bjarni> Celestar: sprites are a minor issue if the code supports this :)
12:44:38  <Bjarni> we can always say on the forum that now we got this feature and we need sprites for it and then see what happens
12:44:41  <Celestar> Bjarni: I mean for elrails.
12:45:01  <Bjarni> hmm
12:45:07  * black_Nightmare makes a note to next time play this map with no ai's .... they eating up the vehicles numbers....meh
12:45:12  <Bjarni> well, what sprites do you need?
12:45:25  <Celestar> Bjarni: autorails for elrails and convert for elrails
12:46:11  <Bjarni> ahh
12:46:17  <Bjarni> that should be easy
12:46:23  <Bjarni> if you got all the tools to do it, that is
12:46:24  <Celestar> then do it ;)
12:46:26  <Bjarni> hmm
12:46:29  <Bjarni> I can't
12:46:47  <Bjarni> newgrf codec contains i386 ASM :s
12:46:59  <Celestar> I can give you the bitmaps.
12:47:02  <Celestar> I can encode it myself
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12:47:31  <Patrick`> black_Nightmare: vehicle numbers are per person
12:47:45  <Bjarni> besides I meant it's easy for somebody, who got experience in drawing stuff
12:47:48  <black_Nightmare> how come the ai has lot more in total than me?
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12:47:56  <Patrick`> because it's better?
12:48:02  <Qball> because 83 isn't the limit?
12:48:31  <black_Nightmare> patrick..its not....because the ai has tons of road vehicles wandering in circles too many times ^_^
12:48:41  <Patrick`> so why are you complaining
12:49:21  <black_Nightmare> for not being able to use enough planes and the stations are overfilling up with the rating going downward slowly...... ^_^
12:49:24  <black_Nightmare> hehe
12:49:55  <Patrick`> make more
12:50:09  <Patrick`> or just increase the per-player plane limit in the patch options
12:50:20  <Bjarni> Celestar: can I get the elrails too (for comparison/ copy paste if valid)
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12:51:17  <Celestar> yes sure
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12:51:40  <Bjarni> I think it's a matter of copy paste the catenary in the right position and fixing offsets... but we will not know that until I have actually tried ;)
12:51:42  <black_Nightmare> patrick..hmm....let me look at the 'configure patches' dialog again..brb
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12:53:08  <Celestar> aAGGGGHHHH
12:53:22  <Celestar> this "due date" function in flyspray is about the most sucky thing I have seen
12:53:34  <Celestar> just lemme enter YYYYMMDD damnit
12:54:09  <black_Nightmare> would max:0 mean none or unlimited?
12:54:11  <black_Nightmare> just wondering
12:54:18  <Celestar> 0 means 0
12:54:32  <Patrick`> 0 means "turn them off"
12:54:40  <Patrick`> so, just let it go up and up and up
12:54:49  <black_Nightmare> hmm its set to 0 for aircrafts but I still was able to use them.......weird
12:55:11  <Celestar> black_Nightmare: it will not remove existing vehicles
12:55:32  <black_Nightmare> no I mean its been set to zero all the times it seem .. but I've built airplanes in three maps
13:02:24  <black_Nightmare> hm...heh I don't understand it..its set to zero but I still could create airplanes on a new map.....oh well
13:02:50  <Celestar> did you save the options?
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13:08:16  <Bjarni> Celestar: this is actually not as easy as I thought. The background from the cross is nearly the same colour as the catenary, hence making it virtually invisible :|
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13:09:55  <Celestar> Bjarni: yeah :(
13:10:01  <Celestar> Bjarni: no worries, we can add that later.
13:10:07  <Bjarni> I just got a new idea
13:10:10  <Celestar> maybe we can ask $USERS to create a bitmap
13:10:17  <Bjarni> let's see if my app can help me a bit
13:10:28  <Celestar> Bjarni: what about a yellow flash in the cursor/icon
13:11:22  <Celestar> but the normal cursors and icons have kind of a visible catenary
13:12:04  <Bjarni> that could work too
13:12:31  <Bjarni> right now I'm trying to see if I can copy paste and not copy the background to paste over the sprite I paste in
13:12:40  <Bjarni> should be possible... the question is how...
13:16:32  <black_Nightmare> heh.. 64x128 generated map ... should be fun to see how well I develop a full transport network there :p
13:17:34  <Celestar> oh man.
13:17:46  <Celestar> someone needs to bomb belarus methinks :S
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13:23:35  <Bjarni> bah
13:23:44  <black_Nightmare> belarus?
13:23:45  <Bjarni> we postpone this sprite thing
13:24:08  <Bjarni> Celestar: you don't like dictatorship?
13:24:30  <Celestar> no.
13:24:38  <hylje> communism!
13:25:10  <Bjarni> Celestar: what risk do Belarus pose to you?
13:25:18  <Patrick`> last year communists killed 34 hard-wroking americans
13:25:23  <Patrick`> but germs kill over 25 million people!
13:25:37  <Patrick`> your home, much like america, is constantly under attack from germs
13:25:46  <Patrick`> and we all know what germs cause: dyslexia and leprosy!
13:25:50  <Patrick`> thank goodness there's blox
13:26:07  <Bjarni> Patrick`: get serious
13:26:26  <Patrick`> some germs hate acid, some germs hate bleach. blox kills indisriminately!
13:27:13  <Patrick`> now your child has rosy red skin and is 100% germ free, and that means little jimmy won't catch a cold or ask difficult questions about reproduction!
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13:28:32  <Qball> Patrick`: can you demonstrate it (on yourself?)
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13:42:30  <Celestar> guys, does DBSetXL work?
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13:55:45  <Brianetta> Celestar: Yes, with caveat
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13:56:18  <Brianetta>
13:56:46  <Celestar> caveat?
13:57:01  <Brianetta> You need to enable wagon speed limits to get all the wagons
13:57:32  <Celestar> I don't get the ICE3
13:58:42  <Brianetta> Yeah, that's mentioned in that thread
13:58:46  <black_Nightmare> damn........... :-( .. I just had a look at the withwithout.png shot and I really want these cars and engines!!!
13:58:55  <black_Nightmare> bah ^-^
13:59:05  <Celestar> nor do I get the BR420
13:59:56  <Brianetta> Yeah - that GRF was definitely written to Patch's strengths alone
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14:00:31  <Celestar> .oO(and I have weird vehicles appearing for MONO and MAGLEV)
14:00:41  <black_Nightmare> hm...maybe I should register on the forum and try find one of these graphic downloads
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14:00:48  <Brianetta> OpenTTD will exceed Patch in überl33tne55 only when it does newgrf completely.
14:01:15  <Brianetta> black_Nightmare: There's a good North American set
14:01:25  <black_Nightmare> brianetta..I like these german cars ^_^
14:01:27  <Brianetta> Don't know if it works in OpenTTD, though...
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14:02:10  <black_Nightmare> not quite fond of the default uk diesel engines anyway
14:02:20  <Celestar> hm ...
14:02:34  <Celestar> DBSetXL and elrails are weird.
14:02:36  <black_Nightmare> and try pair two or three of these 2-engine turbo units in one train....meh I'll rather pick a stronger single engine instead heh
14:03:20  <Tron> Celestar: weird?
14:03:48  <Brianetta> black_Nightmare: Are you dissing the Deltic?
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14:07:01  <black_Nightmare> brianetta...umm whats a Deltic again?
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14:09:03  <Brianetta> It's a passenger / goods locomotive from the UK, just predating the HST125.  It was basically, according to Bjarni, two locomotives on one chassis, with duplicated engines and cabs.
14:09:26  <Brianetta> It could continue to run, at reduced power, in the event of a failure of an engine.
14:09:31  <black_Nightmare> no I was refering to the engines that appear as 2 units
14:09:55  <Brianetta>
14:10:02  <Patrick`> yeah
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14:10:10  <Patrick`> that could be an advantage for dual-headed engines actually
14:10:12  <black_Nightmare> these I wish I could replace with single units of same/better hp.  having three of these 2-unit engines in one train eats up consist length that would be otherwise good for 4 or 5 more cars
14:10:23  <Patrick`> 90% of the breakdowns only hit one engine and, say, reduce the top speed and HP
14:10:24  <Brianetta> Patrick`: And should be.
14:11:00  <black_Nightmare> brianetta....thats a really nice Deltic there..I want it in openttd ALREADY!!!! set its id to replace that damned early 2-unit turbo engine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
14:11:07  * black_Nightmare chuckles
14:11:17  <black_Nightmare> *hehehe*
14:11:24  <Patrick`> just out of interest, is there an invite-only dev channel?
14:11:25  <Brianetta> It's in the UKRS and, I believe, standard temperate
14:11:35  <Patrick`> not that I don't just love all these folks
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14:12:11  <black_Nightmare> quick question...where's a list of the original engines?  just curious
14:12:18  <Brianetta> Patrick`:
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14:17:03  <black_Nightmare> oh nevermind found a list
14:17:28  <black_Nightmare> brianetta...if you know these..I'm refering to the 'Turner Turbo' engine for one
14:17:56  <Brianetta> black_Nightmare: Oh, that POS is only in arctic and desert
14:18:07  <Brianetta> It's never been operated in the UK
14:18:27  <black_Nightmare> I kinda like the T.I.M. and AsiaStar so these can be spared tho (I've had nice effect with using these for very long flat freight runs...lot cheaper than monorails even)
14:18:47  <black_Nightmare> brianetta...heh yeah I don't quite like many of the original engines sometimes
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14:19:05  <black_Nightmare> and I never touched Toyland at all...a bit too cheesy and limited ^_^
14:19:31  <Brianetta> Toyland has more complex cargo chains
14:19:39  <Brianetta> but it makes your eyes bleed
14:19:42  <black_Nightmare> and only *one* single engine...huh? :p
14:19:50  <Brianetta> Only on at the beginning
14:20:03  <Brianetta> The Ploddyphut Choo-Choo is superceded quickly by the powernaut
14:20:23  <black_Nightmare> a what?? lol jeeze.. names are too cheesy lol
14:22:48  <black_Nightmare> one thing I like of openttd now is being able to build on top of most sloped tiles....saves some money in the total route building budget
14:23:23  <black_Nightmare> kinda amusing to hug ocean coastlines sometimes but hey it let me have a more straighter route 'around' a waterfront city :))
14:23:24  <black_Nightmare> hehe
14:23:33  <Celestar> peter1138: Request for Contact
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14:24:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> Celestar: what problem do you have with the DBSetXL?
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14:24:25  <black_Nightmare> brianetta..anyway I really don't like the Turner Turbo but I'm oftenly forced to use it (and so many times I have to rebuild stations with longer platforms just because of the extra tiles needed)
14:24:45  <Celestar> trouble with powered wagons.
14:24:47  <black_Nightmare> especially with having one single train that is made up of three Turner Turbo sets
14:25:01  <black_Nightmare> these are the only thing that can go quite fast (alak 160km/h)
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14:26:18  <black_Nightmare> having trains that are like 12 cars long ... 6 for engines and 6 for the iron ore cars.  and it barely makes much speed up most of the slopes but I don't want to have to use very long tunnels as I can't signal it for more than two trains then :">
14:26:41  <Patrick`> well, get better horsepower
14:28:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have not played that long into it, but i once started a game in 2050, the ICE3 is fine
14:29:00  <gradator> hehe breakdown value is an unsigned char, my old bus reach 255 breakdowns ;)
14:29:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> 1 engine and 7 (or 15) main line wagons
14:29:23  <black_Nightmare> patrick....the only close alternative is one or two Centinnial at 112km/h max instead
14:29:37  <black_Nightmare> but these have somewhat quite lower reliability rate than the Turner Turbo all the times
14:29:55  <black_Nightmare> breaks down more for sure as I tried once ^_^
14:30:23  <black_Nightmare> Turner Turbo is 3500hp (1750hp per unit I guess)
14:30:42  <black_Nightmare> Centinnial = 6600hp
14:31:05  <black_Nightmare> ugh..I talk a lot lol
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14:32:21  <black_Nightmare> ugh someone know how long you could have had platforms in ttdx? (no patching at all)
14:32:25  <Celestar> wee I understand
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14:32:52  <Patrick`> black_Nightmare: 5
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14:34:07  <black_Nightmare> anyway, now....the T.I.M. on standard maps is a different story, as soon as they came out, even if their relaibility were not great I always upgraded almost all trains right away to use these.
14:34:27  <black_Nightmare> sometimes had one or two slopes once in a while but these engines had no trouble with any kind of trains
14:34:39  <Qball> why do the stupid trains leave the depot driving the f** *wrong direction
14:34:42  <black_Nightmare> not even with one AsiaStar unit and eight iron ore cars
14:34:43  <Patrick`> are you using realistic acceleration?
14:34:54  <Patrick`> Qball: pathfinder problem, a fix is pending soon
14:35:11  <black_Nightmare> patrick..I'm talking about when I had ttdx before...not ever been able to play any maps long enough to ge tto 1984 ^_^
14:35:20  <Patrick`> aah
14:35:29  <Patrick`> I remember my first ttdx game
14:35:34  <Patrick`> shame I don't still have the save
14:35:42  <black_Nightmare> patrick...I really loved these T.I.M and AsiaStar units.....these were hell....they could take any trains just ANY where!!!
14:36:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... i just noticed... the single-ICE3 and the double-ICE3 have the same running costs... even though twice as powerful
14:36:35  <Qball> Patrick`: good it isn't me
14:36:35  <black_Nightmare> I only was willing to give up on them when they started to break down too many times ^_^  (meaning: time to scrap all rails and fully upgrade to maglev)
14:36:38  <Qball> it's annoying
14:36:53  <black_Nightmare> can you image how much I liked these two units lol
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14:41:26  <Celestar> we have WAAAY too little friction in the game :S
14:41:47  <Patrick`> what do you mean?
14:42:02  <Patrick`> like, you want the trains to leave, but they don't realise they've overstayed their welcome?
14:42:15  <Celestar> an unpowered train can easily climb a 10 tile high mountain.
14:42:15  <black_Nightmare> .....?
14:42:27  <black_Nightmare> celestar..oh lol
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14:45:07  <Patrick`> can ottd import savegames from the original ttdx?
14:45:10  <Patrick`> I just found mine
14:45:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes
14:45:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> just not from TTO (sadly, because i have lots of those)
14:46:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> like, i have one where i implemented one-way tracks without one-way signals ;)
14:46:50  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause2: seen SVXConverter or whatever it's called?
14:46:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> (only works with breakdowns off, because depots screw the system ;))
14:47:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, i guess not
14:47:19  <Prof_Frink> Converts TTO -> TTD saves
14:47:27  <Patrick`> I have .sv0 and .sv1
14:47:29  <Patrick`> how odd
14:47:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> *opens google*
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14:47:38  <Prof_Frink> It's either in TTO or General TT fora
14:47:50  <Patrick`> aha
14:47:52  <Patrick`> smegfault
14:47:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> one is scenarios and one is saves, Patrick`
14:47:57  <Prof_Frink> sv0 = scenario, sv1 = save
14:48:11  <Patrick`> yep
14:48:23  <Patrick`> yep, it crashes ottd
14:48:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> maybe you got some incompatible newgrfs installed?
14:48:50  * Patrick` cracks out a debug build
14:48:56  <Patrick`> nope, I have no newgrfs installed
14:49:00  <Patrick`> this is out of the box 0.4.5
14:50:28  <x87> it seems like there is a bug with black male player faces in r4108
14:50:37  <Patrick`> hooray
14:50:38  <Patrick`> ttd ran
14:50:40  <Patrick`> briefly
14:51:00  <Patrick`> crashes when I try to move the mouse
14:51:01  <Celestar> weee
14:51:10  <Celestar> the ICE3 works properly on elrails now :)
14:51:32  <black_Nightmare> to whoever posted that link to the Deltic .... interesting history anyhow
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14:54:13  <Patrick`> hmm
14:54:25  <Patrick`> well, the consensus is that my old map building skills were shit
14:58:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> Celestar: what do you mean with "now"?
14:58:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> what did it not do correctly?
14:59:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> and what changed?
14:59:31  <Celestar> well... it ran on convrail also ;)
14:59:35  <Celestar> well kind of
15:00:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> oh...
15:00:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> that is something i did not test ;)
15:00:16  <Celestar> kind of
15:00:21  <Celestar> well, not in svn
15:00:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> i assume it had to do with non-electric consist thing
15:05:32  <DarkSSH> whohooo, we beat Norway 4-3 :D
15:05:40  <DarkSSH> Celestar: ping-reply
15:13:17  <Celestar> please check diff
15:13:28  <DarkSSH> damn your DCC
15:14:09  <Celestar> ^^
15:16:11  <Celestar>  me.depart_in 2 minutes
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15:18:31  <Brianetta> I want to bump this thread but I have nothing to add to it. ):
15:18:59  <DarkSSH> we don't have a VehType type?
15:19:28  <DarkSSH> Celestar: looks promising but you forgot the conversion of old(er) savegames
15:19:56  <Celestar> DarkSSH: older savegames just don't have anything loaded.
15:20:05  <DarkSSH> but they do have last_vehicle
15:20:09  <Celestar> because you might load a deleted vehicle.
15:20:15  <DarkSSH> and from that it can be converted to last_vehicle->type
15:20:20  <Celestar> and then you have the same problem as before.
15:20:25  <Patrick`> hmm
15:20:29  <DarkSSH> yes but only upon loading
15:20:42  <DarkSSH> and you can check with IsValidVehicle() I think
15:20:44  <Patrick`> philosophical question: would having dual-track train types make the game too easy?
15:21:09  <Patrick`> e.g. autoreplace all your trains to hybrid train-monorail, then autoconvert the entire map
15:21:14  <Celestar> DarkSSH: ok. but I gotta leave now.
15:21:17  <DarkSSH> ok
15:21:30  <Celestar> you can continue ;)
15:21:34  <Brianetta> I think the rail convert tool makes it a little too easy
15:22:07  <Celestar> Brianetta: that's why rail types should/will have different construction and maintenance cost.
15:22:12  <Brianetta> I can't see rails ever being replaced by different types of track, although I can see new tracks being laid in addition/
15:22:27  <Celestar> latest elrail stuff (for peter1138)
15:23:27  <DarkSSH> IsVehicleIndex()
15:23:44  <DarkSSH> we can get the wrong type upon loading, but at least it won't crash
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15:24:01  <MeusH> hello
15:25:18  <Patrick`> Crowley place?
15:28:07  <DarkSSH> hi MeusH
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15:45:46  <magnus_1986> Good Evening, everyone
15:47:23  <CIA-5> Darkvater * r4109 /trunk/unix.c: - Fix (r4105) [iconv]: Only include the needed headers when ICONV is actually used. Thanks for noticing Bjarni
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15:55:44  <Vornicus> O.o
15:55:59  <Vornicus> I have a truck that says "waiting for a free stop" will sitting in the truck station.
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16:09:29  <Patrick`> sweesus, what's with production spiking when a station is well-serviced?
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16:18:11  <black_Nightmare> two multiplayer questions ^_^ ... 1. how do you password your player's company?   2. without trying to remember its name in the long server list there a way to use the console to find the server's name?
16:18:48  <gradator> 1. +set ?
16:19:16  <black_Nightmare> oh so just like type in '+set [my password]' in the console?
16:20:32  <gradator> I don't know, I just completed the question :p
16:21:09  <black_Nightmare> so where does +set go then?
16:21:13  <black_Nightmare> heh
16:21:38  * black_Nightmare is starting to wonder if multiplayer is a grand idea at all for me when I can't even leave and come back
16:21:42  * black_Nightmare hehes
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16:21:50  <Patrick`> read the manual?
16:22:12  <black_Nightmare> patrick....where?  lol
16:22:18  <black_Nightmare> 'help' is not even providing much at all
16:22:26  <Patrick`> ...
16:22:28  <Patrick`> ONLINE
16:22:33  <Patrick`>
16:22:41  <hylje> help
16:22:43  <black_Nightmare> lol meh sorry hehe
16:22:45  <black_Nightmare> let me look
16:22:48  <black_Nightmare> :">
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16:25:21  <black_Nightmare> hmm..looked here but only finding about server password alone....
16:26:48  <Patrick`> black_Nightmare, I don't know, but I'd find out myself, not by asking
16:27:09  <black_Nightmare> well patrick..I wouldn't be asking if there was more clue
16:27:14  <Patrick`> and I won't help you because I'd find it irritating that I'd be doing searches that you're capable of doing yourself
16:27:15  <black_Nightmare> figures
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18:14:43  <sijmen> I have this weird problem. I have this rail setup: a-b-c, the letters being stations. There's a depot at C. I've order the train which I've built there to go to C and then to A. But when the train reaches B, it turns around and goes back to C. What could it be?
18:15:13  <glx> version 0.4.6?
18:15:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> 0.4.6 has a glitch in the pathfinder
18:16:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> either use 0.4.5, wait for, or turn NPF off
18:16:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> and look if the problem persists
18:16:37  <sijmen> Jup, 0.4.6
18:16:45  <sijmen> NPF off, I'll try.
18:17:03  <Qball> it's almost like debian
18:17:18  <sijmen> NPF is turned off
18:17:28  <SimonRC> sijmen: also, check that there is actually a complete rail, and you haven't got some funny signalling.
18:17:30  <sijmen> Also I've verified that the station is long enough, just in case.
18:18:00  <sijmen> I'll rebuild that part entirely and see what happens
18:18:03  * SimonRC keeps getting caught out by Maglev junctions which have one piece of rail missing, jamming up switchyards
18:18:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> with the old pathfinder, i used to have trains turn around if the outgoing signal is red
18:18:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> pretty annoying
18:18:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> which made me use "turn around at end of track only"
18:19:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't know if that behaviour changed
18:19:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> have not used the old pathfinder in years...
18:20:43  <sijmen> Okay, rebuilt the entire a-b track, including the removal of A
18:20:47  <sijmen> I'll try the new pathfinder
18:22:10  <sijmen> Jay! New pathfinder works
18:22:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> like i said... in 0.4.6 there is a glitch in the new pathfinder, that prevents the vehicles from finding the right track if leaving a depot or station
18:22:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> might wanna try the nightlies
18:23:07  <sijmen> But I enabled the new pathfinder, not disabled it
18:23:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, i understood that
18:23:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> just wanted to warn you ;)
18:23:32  <glx> it works by chance
18:23:45  <sijmen> Okay.
18:23:52  <glx> it depends on layout and first destination
18:23:57  <sijmen> Well, I'm trying to avoid signalling and such overall
18:24:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> signals are the most vital part of the game
18:24:55  <SimonRC> yup
18:25:15  <SimonRC> junctions are pretty important
18:25:21  <sijmen> I know
18:25:25  <sijmen> But still I try to avoid them :)
18:25:47  <sijmen> I'm never sure how they work. I'm glad already that I found out how these two-way ones work.
18:26:22  <SimonRC> Wise man say: "If train can go in circles, philosiphers shall some day cease to dine."
18:26:40  <SimonRC> (See: Dining Philosophers Problem)
18:27:29  <sijmen> Yup, I know the problem
18:28:33  <SimonRC> Branch junctions with a through-line are greatly improved if you can persuade one of the branches to be on a different level from the other two.
18:28:46  <SimonRC> It reduces the hills required to the minimum
18:29:07  * SimonRC wishes for boosting devices he could fit to sloped tracks.
18:29:23  <sijmen> Trackmania Tycoon
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18:32:00  * Eddi|zuHause2 does not understand what SimonRC is talking about
18:32:35  * Eddi|zuHause2 wishes for custom bridgeheads and building above tunnel exits
18:33:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> PBS would also help ;)
18:35:04  <SimonRC> Eddi|zuHause2: PBS reserves a path throught the *whole* block, though, so you still need small blocks.
18:35:50  <SimonRC> Oh, BTW, does PBS interact smartly with pre-signals, reserving a path through the next block if appropriate?
18:35:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> well... PBS greatly reduce the need for complicated (i.e. large) junctions
18:36:03  <SimonRC> true
18:36:32  <SimonRC> until you have *lots* of trains
18:37:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> for large junctions, you should try to avoid crossing paths anyway
18:38:42  <SimonRC> We could try and aim to have tpbs in 5.0 :-)
18:39:06  <SimonRC> (temporal pbs)
18:39:24  <SimonRC> It makes signals totally unnecessary
18:39:29  <SimonRC> :-S :-)
18:39:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> anyway... the PBS implementation that used to be here until 0.4.5 was implicitly presignalled...
18:40:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> i.e. a train does not enter the block if the exit signal he chose was red
18:40:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> as long as there was an actual choice
18:41:11  <SimonRC> the two semantics of one-way vs two-way signals needs to be disentangled.
18:41:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> two semantics?
18:41:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> i thought that was a ttdpatch thingie
18:41:48  <SimonRC> i.e. one-way makes the train chose the "correct" direction, and the two-way makes the train chose any direction.
18:41:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> NPF is far beyond that ;)
18:42:00  * SimonRC thought it was ottd
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18:42:11  <SimonRC> I ought to try NPF
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18:50:56  <Meush[away]> hey MiHaMiX
18:51:08  *** Meush[away] is now known as Meush
18:51:23  <Meush> do you know where are wiki classes stored?
18:51:39  <Meush> like where should I look for definition of class="checked2"?
18:52:05  <glx> isn't it a css?
18:52:39  <Meush> that's my first thought
18:52:47  <Meush> but IMO it should be editable
18:52:50  <sijmen> There's this 'load full' feature, but I have this train which transport two types of cargo. Is there a way to say 'fully load cargo types supplied'
18:52:54  <Meush> and stored somewhere in the wiki
18:53:15  <Meush> sijmen, not yet
18:53:31  <Meush> hmm you gave me the idea for a nice patch :)
18:53:32  <sijmen> yet? It will be between now and infinity-1?
18:53:46  <Meush> I hope so
18:53:56  <gradator> sijmen: there is a patch for, applied by default iirc
18:54:31  <sijmen> Enhanced loading algorithm? (I'm using the Dutch translation)
18:54:46  <gradator> sijmen: " Leave station when any cargo is full, if "full load" ", section Stations
18:55:02  <sijmen> Ah, yes, I see now.
18:55:06  * sijmen enables settings
18:55:57  <sijmen> If station X supplies Coal and takes Wood, and station Y supplies Wood and Takes coal.. what happens if I say full-load for both?
18:56:00  <SimonRC> gradator: shouldn't that really act more like "leave just before overflow", in case a bit more of the not-full cargo arrives next?
18:56:50  <sijmen> I mean, if I say full-load, will it still unload the other cargo?
18:57:14  <SimonRC> sijmen: I *think* so
18:57:18  <SimonRC> try it and see
18:57:21  <gradator> I think so too
18:57:27  <sijmen> Okay.
18:58:28  <sijmen> Oh wait, both cargo came from one and went to the other
18:58:30  <sijmen> Hmm
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19:00:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, full load still unloads cargo first ;)
19:00:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> if accepted by the station
19:00:59  <sijmen> Okay.
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19:07:42  <Patrick`> Eddi|zuHause2: excellent!
19:07:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> what did i do now?
19:10:33  <Tron> hm, this configure thingie is broken
19:10:57  <Tron> i don't know how it pulls that trick, but it forces a complete recompile every time i run make
19:13:03  <SimonRC> maybe your dates are mucked up?
19:13:15  <Tron> no, everything is fine
19:13:34  <Tron> i use a clean checkout, directly run make and everything is fine
19:14:05  <sijmen> Wow, Locomotion is embarassing. It looks even worse than TTD, and on my PC the scrolling is soooo slow
19:14:06  <Tron> if i use a clean checkout, run ./configure and then make, then the last step after linking is touching Makefile.config
19:14:44  <Tron> which of course forces a complete recompile next time i run make, because everything depends on Makefile.config
19:18:17  <SimonRC> ah
19:18:23  <SimonRC> I wonder why
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19:34:46  <Celestar> hi peops
19:34:51  <SimonRC> j0
19:34:54  <Celestar> Tron: peter1138 ping
19:35:30  <SimonRC> Celestar: your nick seems familiar.
19:35:56  <Celestar> I'm an openttd dev
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19:39:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> Celestar: what i always wanted to ask, is your nick some kind of tolkienish?
19:40:32  <Celestar> nope
19:40:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> because it sounds like it could be ;)
19:40:56  <Celestar> even tho "Cele" does occur in Sindarin
19:41:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, that's what i mean
19:41:32  <Celestar> Celeb means Silver
19:41:41  <Celestar> Celestial mean heavenish
19:41:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> i know ;)
19:41:54  <Celestar> but that's not where the name comes from ;)
19:43:43  <Celestar> <= this is a Celestar
19:44:53  <Celestar> hm ...
19:44:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> honestly... that looks like any other airplane to me ;)
19:45:18  <Celestar> Singapore Airlines has specific names for aircraft Types.
19:45:26  <Celestar> Boeing 747-400s are called Megatop
19:45:31  <Celestar> 777s Jubilee
19:45:36  <Celestar> and Airbus A340 were "Celestar"s
19:45:45  <Celestar> A340-313X specifically
19:46:11  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause2: It doesn't look like a Concorde ;)
19:46:30  <Celestar> it looks very much like an A340-300 or -200
19:46:46  <Celestar> it's the only commercial aircraft with hairdryers instead of engines.
19:48:26  <Celestar> A340-300s have extermely poor climb performance, that's why SQ got rid of them eventually...
19:48:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> and what kind of affiliation do you have with singapore airlines?
19:49:16  <Celestar> none
19:49:19  <Celestar> I just liked the name
19:49:28  <Celestar> SQ is a decent airline.
19:49:55  <Celestar> and the first to fly A380 \o/
19:50:31  * Prof_Frink is surprised that amount of tarmac ever got off the ground
19:50:47  <Celestar> 590 tons
19:51:09  <Celestar> I'm an aerospace engineer, and I'm also rather astounded.
19:51:12  <Prof_Frink> More'n that, I'd think
19:51:18  <Celestar> nah.
19:51:36  <Celestar> the Passenger Version is 560 tons (maximum takeoff mass) the cargo version 590 tons.
19:51:42  <Celestar> empty about 270 tons
19:52:53  <Prof_Frink> Wrong A380
19:53:02  * Prof_Frink is talking about the one near Exeter
19:53:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> i know that the airport of Halle/Leipzig used to have a too short runway, so planes could never take off with full tank
19:53:34  <Celestar> used to.
19:53:38  <Celestar> but the new one is 3600 meters
19:54:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> also, the real direction of the runway used to differ from the direction reported by the landing system ;)
19:55:09  <Celestar> ..
19:55:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> so one plane almost landed inmidst of the city of Schkeuditz right next to the airport
19:55:17  * Celestar has 3 diffs read to commit.
19:55:21  <Celestar> ready*
19:55:34  <guru3> go man go!
19:56:02  <Celestar> I'm waiting for them to be proofread
19:56:08  <guru3> doh
19:57:14  <Celestar> Tron: peter1138: DarkSSH: Requesting Hyperspace Communication Channel
19:57:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> i believe there should be large improvement to automatic correctness proofers
19:58:02  <guru3> namely, their invention?
19:58:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> well... of course program equality is undecidable...
19:58:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> but there ARE things that can be done
20:00:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> and some things are so easy, i wonder why they are not done yet...
20:02:16  <Bjarni> Celestar: no way. We took great effort to cloak ourselves. Now we should not start a radio broadcast to tell our location
20:02:34  <Celestar> Bjarni: use ssh-over-hyperspace then.
20:02:53  <SpComb> :O
20:03:01  <Bjarni> not good enough
20:03:09  <Bjarni> only complete silence works
20:03:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> use an open proxy ;)
20:03:15  <Bjarni> so I will do that
20:03:28  * Bjarni cloaks
20:06:04  <Prof_Frink> Tracing signal.........complete
20:06:18  <Prof_Frink> Targetting..........complete
20:06:41  * Tron fires a ionised gas tracking photon torpedo at Bjarni
20:06:43  <Prof_Frink> Launch
20:06:46  <Tron> (ST6)
20:07:03  <Meush> o_O ->  Bjarni is Bjarni!
20:07:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> Somebody set up us the bomb!
20:07:22  <Tron> Main screen turn on!
20:07:32  <Prof_Frink> It's ewe!
20:09:31  <SimonRC> Gentlmen, make your time.
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20:37:33  <Meush> cya
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20:50:12  <Celestar> does anyone have the music files present?
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20:58:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> i think i have
20:59:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> why?
21:00:21  <SpComb> piracy!
21:01:53  <Celestar> found them thanks
21:02:19  <SimonRC> Arrr!  There be files over tharr!
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21:40:14  <Celestar> starting in 1920 is kind of fun
21:41:27  <Eddi|zuHause> you cannot build anything
21:41:49  <hylje> :D
21:41:52  <hylje> oh, really
21:41:56  <Eddi|zuHause> you have to wait till the first vehicles arrive
21:42:01  <hylje> when actually
21:42:51  <Eddi|zuHause> i usually start 1921, but sometimes you are missing some wagons at that time (in the DBSetXL)
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21:43:08  <Eddi|zuHause> you have to check that _before_ building a line
21:45:29  <Celestar> hehe
21:45:37  <Celestar> you have engines in 1920
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21:51:21  <gradator> hehe strange 1920
21:51:41  <gradator> no vehicle in 1920, really ? :-)
21:52:16  <gradator> no ship in 1920, something is wrong :p
21:54:28  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, this time i have some, too.
21:54:41  <Eddi|zuHause> previously, that did not work
21:54:58  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... what is the actual effect of trains being longer than stations?
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21:57:56  <Brianetta> I NEED a 110,000V taser cannon.
21:57:58  <Brianetta>
21:58:02  <gradator> it seems that train appears in 1927 :)
21:58:07  <Celestar> with DBSetXL you have a vehicle in 1920
21:58:40  <gradator> ah :)
22:03:19  <Eddi|zuHause> speed 49 trains are _soooo_ slow...
22:03:31  <Eddi|zuHause> 49 km/h that is
22:03:43  <C-Otto> i like my 643-thingies.
22:03:46  *** Red720 [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:04:01  <Eddi|zuHause> should have made that electric...
22:04:14  <Eddi|zuHause> that is like 4 times expensive, but 59km/h
22:06:00  <CIA-5> celestar * r4110 /branch/elrail/ (9 files):
22:06:00  <CIA-5> [elrail] Changed the behaviour of mixed consists. Each engine is treated
22:06:00  <CIA-5> individually, and electric engines have zero power on conventional rails.
22:06:00  <CIA-5> Consists that have electric engines only cannot enter conventional rail tiles.
22:06:00  <CIA-5> Thanks to peter1138 for large parts of the diff and special thanks to Tron for
22:06:01  <CIA-5> lots of input.
22:06:03  <Celestar> here we go.
22:06:05  <CIA-5> This (hopefully) concludes the main part of elrail development, only minor issues remain (missing cursors/icons and non-unique depots).
22:06:26  <Celestar> ok I'm off to bed.
22:06:30  <Celestar> have fun everyone.
22:06:40  <Celestar> if there are no more problem reported, we can merge tomorrow.
22:06:46  <gradator> :D
22:08:27  * gradator says that Celestar made a great job (I'm not shy) ;)
22:09:40  <Celestar> test it first before saying such stuff please ;)
22:11:00  * gradator svn co branch/elrail
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22:12:51  <Celestar> if anyone finds a bug, please report it to flyspray.
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22:24:31  <DarkSSH> he, we won again :D
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22:25:01  <MeusH> hello
22:26:54  <RichK> hi
22:28:23  <MeusH> RichK, are you seriously thinking about finite state machine for docks?
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22:28:30  <RichK> yeah
22:29:05  <MeusH> I'm not a good artist, but I may try doing some sprites
22:29:08  <RichK> ive been asked to code the newgrf airport FTA, and it makes sense to make it somewhat reusable on other things
22:29:10  <MeusH> just for testing
22:29:36  <MeusH> RichK, how about fully user-editable dock?
22:29:41  <RichK> what i really want right now is some art for a different project... dead easy for a good artist
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22:29:46  <MeusH> hopefully docks aren't so complicated
22:30:13  <RichK> user-editable and FTAs dont really mix too well
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22:30:29  <MeusH> what if there would be no FTA?
22:30:59  <MeusH> Imagine some "important" places: entry, exit, naval depot and terminals
22:31:06  <MeusH> and routes inbetween
22:31:08  <RichK> i need 3 small signs... in yellow, on a short pole - one with "S", one with "M" and one with "F" for my new patch - speed signalling
22:31:18  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... is there a RV set that could be used parallel to the DBSetXL? (i.e. starting in 1920)
22:31:38  <MeusH> RichK: what size?
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22:31:45  <MeusH> like "buy land"?
22:31:50  <RichK> about 2/3rds height of a signal
22:31:50  <MeusH> or like pre-signals signs?
22:32:15  <RichK> just the letter - its for track-side
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22:32:55  <Brianetta> RichK: Cool - I take it this is to help route slow trains versus fast in a semi-automatic manner?
22:33:19  <MeusH> should it be signal+letter sprite, or just letter, which will be mixed onto a signal in-game?
22:33:53  <RichK> for docks, 3 are obvious - hovercraft come up onto land to load/unload, passenger terminal, freight docks... but there could also be oil terminal (tends to be very long to take tankers further off shore), mineral loaders, etc.
22:34:42  <DarkSSH>
22:34:45  <RichK> Brianetta: yeah... sort by speed - just a simple way of getting the pathfinders to weight a route by the maximum speed of the train
22:34:48  <DarkSSH> we could finally do this :D
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22:35:06  <DarkSSH> well if you complete the puzzle
22:36:06  <RichK> yeah - i spent an hour doing all the puzzles... sad ;)
22:37:17  <RichK> better than that anyway - i want to have ships wait to dock rather than all overlap. also hovercraft up a ramp onto land to dock at a "terminal" like with the airport, perhaps have 2 terminals, etc...
22:37:22  <Brianetta> RichK: Are the speeds associated with S, M and F configurable?
22:37:44  <RichK> they will be: only Slow and Fast needed, medium is logically in between
22:38:34  <hylje> ingame?
22:39:25  <RichK> a slow train would get a positive bias to go down a Slow route, and a small and large negative bias for M and F. no sign is no bias, so it should always choose a route, even if faced with big negative penalties
22:40:16  <RichK> hylje: yes, im coding it tonite. gui is nearly done. (to me thats the hard part - most of the code for the biasses is already in the pathfinder code
22:41:37  <Brianetta> Biases are cool.
22:41:51  <MeusH> RichK, unfortunatelly for you, this isn't the hovercraft. It's... umm.. don't know the word. Anyway,
22:41:54  * Eddi|zuHause gets GUI nightmares...
22:42:04  <Brianetta> In my games, I make road vehicles use anNPF penalty of 30,000 for grade crossings
22:42:18  <Eddi|zuHause> i already get confused with the Ctrl and not Ctrl clicking for signals
22:42:19  <Brianetta> They'll cross them, but only if there's no way to detour.
22:42:37  <MeusH> That ship called hovercraft in TTD can't go on land
22:42:44  <Tron> be careful, this can massivly slow down pathfinding
22:43:30  <MeusH> RichK: I found the word
22:43:35  <MeusH> It's called Airship
22:43:43  <MeusH> and it can't go on land
22:43:46  <hylje> blimp
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22:44:30  <RichK> sure - if someone litters everywhere with signs, then it will... i would expect only one or two per route at the start of long mainline sections
22:44:50  <Eddi|zuHause> blimp is an engine powered balloon
22:44:59  <RichK> hydrofoil
22:45:04  <Eddi|zuHause> kind of like a zeppelin
22:45:10  <MeusH> so, RichK, you need just a letter or a whole semaphore with letter?
22:45:16  <RichK> i used to commute to work on one!! (southampton to cowes)
22:45:41  <RichK> just a low level letter, with a small stalk and base - about 4ft tall in reality
22:46:27  <Eddi|zuHause> may i propose a red S, yellow M and green F?
22:46:30  <MeusH> RichK: you worked on a blimp or on a hydrofoil?
22:46:40  <RichK> went to work on a hydrofoil
22:46:42  <MeusH> I second Eddi|zuHause
22:46:48  <MeusH> in fact, I wanted to propose that
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22:47:02  <MeusH> RichK: how come this ship gets on land?
22:47:03  <RichK> nope - i want yellow - all UK signage like this is yellow :)
22:47:15  <RichK> hydrofoils dont - water only
22:47:31  <Eddi|zuHause> that may be, but you have to divide them apart on pixel level on high zoom
22:47:44  <MeusH> cya
22:47:46  <MeusH> goodnight
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22:48:13  <RichK> cruise at 50mph once they can plane, but in rough weather they go so far, hit a wave.. BAM!. ... become a boat again, accelerate... hit next wave... BAM!! ooo it hurts
22:48:57  <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like fun :p
22:49:04  <Eddi|zuHause> </irony>
22:49:07  <RichK> hmmm.... maybe i could have both sets of colours
22:50:13  <Eddi|zuHause> but really... if we have a 3rd way to manipulate signals indipendently, we need a signal selection GUI
22:50:39  <hylje> hmm
22:50:43  <hylje> i have a though
22:50:45  <RichK> ive done a separate button, so it doesnt change anything else
22:50:48  <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise we'd be holding 5 different keys down per click soon, just to build the right signal
22:51:03  <RichK> its a speed sign, not a signal
22:51:04  <hylje> when you place a signal and hold the mouse
22:51:21  <hylje> different signal type icons appear around the cursor
22:51:35  <Eddi|zuHause> ah, so you just add it to existing signals?
22:51:44  <RichK> it will co-exist
22:51:50  <hylje> and you just drag the cursor into one
22:52:26  <RichK> there are a small number of unused bits in the map array, so i only need 2 bits (00 - no speed sign, 01-small, 10-medium,11-fast)
22:53:08  <RichK> hylje - sounds complicated interface change, so wouldnt be popular
22:53:22  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... not if other people want these bits for something like custom bridgeheads...
22:54:10  <RichK> true - maybe ill ask on the dev forum
22:54:13  <hylje> its quite simple
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22:54:29  <RichK> simple idea, but not simple to code
22:54:29  <hylje> but might not comply with current ui conventions
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22:54:43  <hylje> agreed
22:55:01  <hylje> with that though people could choose the signal with a single stroke
22:55:06  <RichK> would require some sort of cursor override, and that could get really messy
22:55:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i hate that idea with the hold mouse button...
22:55:49  <Eddi|zuHause> a selection window like for stations and stuff would suffice
22:56:00  <hylje> traditional way
22:56:06  <hylje> :)
22:56:16  <Eddi|zuHause> yes... why not?
22:56:23  <hylje> it works
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22:58:33  <RichK> bjarni, darkssh: ping
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22:59:22  <DarkSSH> RichK: repl
22:59:37  <RichK> hi darkssh - ive got a map question
22:59:55  <DarkSSH> ok
23:00:04  <RichK> i need 2 bits in the map array (rail) for my speed signalling, but dont want to clash with other developments
23:00:13  <RichK> any idea what is free?
23:01:01  <DarkSSH> I am not planning using any map-changes, but if you properly accessorize these map-changes, it'll only be 2-3 lines of code to change it to use other bits
23:01:08  <RichK> the landscape info in the docs only mentions current stuff
23:01:16  <DarkSSH> the free bits are in landscape_grid.html
23:01:27  <RichK> yeah, thats the one i was looking at
23:01:43  <DarkSSH> if it's green it's free
23:01:46  <RichK> okies, ill add accessors (i would have anyway)
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23:02:45  <RichK> thanks, ill get back to coding it then ;)
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23:05:06  <Brianetta> RichK: What you really need is a white circle with a red border, with the speed limit in figures black in the middle.
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23:05:35  <hylje> readable?
23:05:47  <Brianetta> hylje: Probably not, which is a shame.
23:05:55  <Brianetta> Especially as all three would look the same
23:05:59  <Brianetta> ):
23:06:01  <RichK> modern style - i was thinking of the speed signs i saw on the Exeter-Plymouth tracks in my youth
23:06:11  <RichK> yellow, about 4-5ft tall, number on
23:06:17  <hylje> maybe a series of lights
23:06:19  <RichK> but a number would be hard
23:06:21  <Brianetta> Very old - would have been old even back then
23:06:22  <hylje> signal-like
23:06:27  <RichK> so a letter is good :)
23:06:35  <Brianetta> hylje: Line speed is usually a sign, since it doesn't change
23:06:38  <RichK> at least pre-BR
23:06:41  <hylje> like 1-3 yellow lights for speed emphasizing
23:07:00  <hylje> Brianetta: ya but lights are more readable here
23:07:11  <Brianetta> Lights would be confused with signals
23:07:18  <hylje> different color
23:07:19  <RichK> i think to the ordinary punter, they can understand SMF
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23:07:40  <Brianetta> It's only a game, but some realism is good...
23:07:59  <hylje> gameplay>realism in most cases
23:08:00  <Brianetta> SMF, yes, RichK.  Best solution.
23:08:21  <RichK> KISS - keep it simple, stupid!
23:08:40  <Brianetta> Realism++
23:08:46  <Brianetta> Gameplay follows.
23:09:00  <Brianetta> Form follows function.
23:09:19  <hylje> function is the gameplay imo
23:09:26  <Brianetta> Like wagon speed limits - extra realism actually created a great deal of fun
23:09:39  <RichK> and a lot of headaches!
23:09:47  <Brianetta> Despite some people hating that they couldn't just use Gresley A4s to pull everything
23:10:18  <Brianetta> RichK: Dealing with those headaches, and having to think about your locomotive choice, was such an enjoyable thing.
23:10:34  <Brianetta> It's why I look forward to elrails
23:10:59  <Brianetta> Do you pay the extra for electrification, or limit your choice to diesels and steam?
23:11:04  <Brianetta> Oh, and fuel cell (:
23:13:15  <hylje> i still think rail costs should be different
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23:29:04  <Brianetta> hylje: I don't believe that anybody disagrees
23:30:13  <RichK> brianetta: do you know why the running costs for engines are so high in UKRS?
23:30:35  <Brianetta> RichK: I believe it's a newgrf incompatibility
23:30:45  <Eddi|zuHause> hylje: the code is right there... change it ;)
23:30:47  <RichK> ah
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23:43:26  <Bjarni> 	<Brianetta>	Oh, and fuel cell (: <-- fuel cells are not far out for railroads
23:43:40  <Bjarni> I know one, that seriously wants to use it :)
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