Log for #openttd on 3rd May 2006:
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00:09:08  <SmileyG> heh im losing money faster than a bald egagle on ebay..
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00:11:17  <Eddi|zuHause> i never loose money
00:11:31  <XeryusTC> you shouldnt build to much at once
00:11:34  <Eddi|zuHause> start out with a decent coal line
00:11:46  <Eddi|zuHause> expand on that line
00:11:56  <Eddi|zuHause> then go for a factory
00:12:15  <Eddi|zuHause> and then carry the goods they produce to a city
00:12:20  <SmileyG> hum
00:12:24  <SmileyG> 10k in debt :D
00:12:27  <Eddi|zuHause> then you get money like crazy
00:12:32  <SmileyG> i see.
00:12:40  <SmileyG> factory needs lots coming in tho?
00:12:49  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
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00:13:06  <SmileyG> does it need all 3?
00:13:13  <Eddi|zuHause> no
00:13:16  <SmileyG> livestock, steel and.... food?
00:13:31  <Eddi|zuHause> grain is the 3rd
00:13:35  <SmileyG> ah yes
00:13:38  <Eddi|zuHause> no, any of it will do
00:14:00  <SmileyG> ok
00:14:05  <SmileyG> and then transport the goods to a city?
00:14:30  <XeryusTC> yes
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00:14:37  <XeryusTC> a city that accepts them that is
00:14:41  <SmileyG> ok heh i mgiht start again without hte oponent
00:14:42  <SmileyG> yeah
00:14:52  <SmileyG> not always easy to find somewhere...
00:15:21  <MeusH> find a power plant/factory in the middle of map
00:15:27  <SmileyG> point to point orn ot?
00:15:29  <MeusH> away from raw material industries
00:15:56  <MeusH> so, for example, you have some mines scattered around the map, but there is one power plant in the middle, away from the mines
00:15:58  <XeryusTC> find a power station and a coal mine that are at least 40 tiles away from each other (dont start to count, guess)
00:16:26  <SmileyG> why so far?
00:16:26  <MeusH> don't play with landscaping at the beginning
00:16:30  <MeusH> more cash
00:16:35  <MeusH> cash = distance/time
00:16:38  <XeryusTC> distance = cash
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00:16:55  <SmileyG> you get more cash for hauling it all that way?
00:17:00  <MeusH> yes
00:17:03  <SmileyG> :o
00:17:18  <XeryusTC> you have people that take cargo from one side in a 1024x1024 map to the other side just to get cash :)
00:17:19  * SmileyG cheers as he finally gets some income
00:17:32  <MeusH> so, don't build expensive tunnels/bridges, don't play with landscaping too much. wait a few years
00:17:39  <SmileyG> right ok
00:17:50  <MeusH> with a few coal lines, after five years you'll have an unlimited source of money
00:18:02  <MeusH> and then you should optimize your routes
00:18:08  <XeryusTC> try to avoid building through farm land and rough landscape (the grey tiles)
00:18:08  <MeusH> remove bad parts
00:18:16  <MeusH> FLAT all the land
00:18:23  <MeusH> so your tracks are straight and long
00:18:24  <SmileyG> :o
00:18:25  <MeusH> but remember
00:18:27  <SmileyG> :D
00:18:30  <MeusH> only after a few years
00:18:36  <MeusH> so you have zillions of dollars
00:18:37  <XeryusTC> the real challenge is to preserve the landscape
00:18:49  <MeusH> yes, but it pisses me off
00:18:56  <SmileyG> lol
00:18:59  <MeusH> I tried to make a five way junction on a hilly one
00:19:09  <MeusH> evil
00:19:09  <XeryusTC> lol
00:19:11  <Eddi|zuHause>
00:19:20  <SmileyG> damnit just noticed a really gay thing
00:19:30  <XeryusTC> my mainline juction (2 4 lines crossing) is about 50x50 tiles big :D
00:19:32  <SmileyG> i've got a drop just before a bridge :/
00:19:46  <XeryusTC> iirc
00:20:00  <XeryusTC> Eddi|zuHause: thats the way to do it
00:20:04  <MeusH> this one is nice :)
00:20:20  <MeusH> what, SmileyG?
00:20:21  <SmileyG> holy :D
00:20:29  <XeryusTC> heh, i was a bit off by count :)
00:20:35  <MeusH> man
00:20:38  <MeusH> I g2g sleep
00:20:46  <MeusH> it's past 2 am here
00:20:56  <MeusH> cya
00:21:00  <XeryusTC> ow, exaclty 50x50 :D
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00:21:53  <glx> XeryusTC: without a flat land it's quite hard to build that
00:22:12  <XeryusTC> glx: i know
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00:29:08  <CIA-3> KUDr * r4705 /branch/yapf/yapf/yapf_costrail.hpp: [YAPF] Fix: some diesel engines can't find path when rail combined with elrail (thanks Eddi|zuHause)
00:29:34  <Eddi|zuHause> \o/
00:30:14  <KUDr> enjoy
00:30:26  <XeryusTC> SmileyG: watch and learn (dont mind the jams, i replaced the trains with a faster model and trains are now queing a lot and taking detours :s
00:32:23  <SmileyG> :@o
00:32:39  <XeryusTC> its a bit huge :)
00:33:07  <XeryusTC> 14mb :P
00:33:27  <SmileyG> still waiting :o
00:33:59  <XeryusTC> it could take a while
00:34:06  <XeryusTC> my upload is only 32kbps
00:34:22  <glx> giant screenshot?
00:35:37  <XeryusTC> yes
00:35:49  <SmileyG> my download is prob less than that
00:35:52  <SmileyG> rubbish connection here
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00:36:30  <glx> firefox says your screenie contains errors :(
00:36:58  <XeryusTC> its saved with photoshop so i guess it is an firefox problem :P
00:37:19  <glx> I try save as instead open in ff
00:38:54  <glx> ok I cancel (will take too much time :) )
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00:39:23  <SmileyG> im clawing my way outta provity
00:39:24  <SmileyG> :-p
00:39:31  <Eddi|zuHause> you mean kBps or kbps?
00:39:44  <glx> b I guess
00:39:45  <SmileyG> and i appear to be finally recovering
00:39:48  <Eddi|zuHause> (one meaning byte and one meaning bit)
00:39:52  <SmileyG> trimmed down all the usless services
00:40:05  <Eddi|zuHause> 32 kbit is half ISDN, that is a little low :p
00:40:06  <SmileyG> just doing oil and coal now, with triains @ 43% relaiable :D
00:40:21  <XeryusTC> Eddi|zuHause: i mean kBps :P
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01:28:22  <black_Nightmare> hey
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01:51:03  <Ihmemies> :o
01:52:40  <black_Nightmare> heh :p
01:52:57  <black_Nightmare> anyway..what I was curious about asking was....
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01:56:10  <black_Nightmare> think you could make your dual tunnels 3 tiles longer (I'll pay a tad lavish for that hehe) so my tunnel can connect to the bridge that has a deadend track currently?  (you'll have to flip the depot to other side of track from where it is too)
01:56:18  <black_Nightmare> this is near plarninghead
01:56:29  <black_Nightmare> if you do..I'll finish the junction and .. be DONE :p
01:57:40  <Ihmemies> ? .o
01:58:01  <black_Nightmare> (I put a sign to get you started ;-) )
01:59:01  <Ihmemies> long tunnels suck but whatever
01:59:05  <Ihmemies> give me all your money!
02:00:03  <Ihmemies> ....
02:00:12  <Ihmemies> eh :D
02:01:28  <black_Nightmare> there..the network is all ready to think :p
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02:02:13  <black_Nightmare> hmm you mind deleting some houses where I put signs at the same city again?
02:02:34  <Ihmemies> can't remember the name :P
02:03:15  <black_Nightmare> look up a few lines in this chat ;)
02:03:18  <black_Nightmare> hehe :->
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02:10:30  <black_Nightmare> alone on this server and need someone else to delete 2 fun lol
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02:22:58  <Serotonin___> did the houses go boom?
02:23:10  <black_Nightmare> a way..yes :p
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02:25:32  <roboman> hello
02:25:55  <Serotonin___> howdy
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02:41:53  <black_Nightmare> oh just *** GREAT
02:42:00  <black_Nightmare> I wish brianetta didn't change that one setting
02:42:08  <black_Nightmare> now my entire network is so wrong.. :-|
02:44:48  <black_Nightmare> anyone actually use the 'train reversing: at end of line only' setting?
02:44:51  <black_Nightmare> just wondering
02:48:23  * roboman has to go
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02:48:50  <roboaway> are you playing on the deathmatch server
02:50:37  <black_Nightmare> no...the nightly server
02:50:39  <black_Nightmare> I mean..
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02:50:58  <black_Nightmare> I built the entire network for several hours just to find out that trains wouldn't go properly as the signals should have said....
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02:51:26  <black_Nightmare> so I looked into the patch/difficulity for any suggestion and found brianetta had turned off allowing trains to turn around in 2-way stations
02:51:34  <black_Nightmare> just how stupid is that....*sigh*....meh
02:51:48  <black_Nightmare> I may as well as let this network clog itself from lost trains..I'm going to bed anyhow :p
02:51:55  <black_Nightmare> bye robo ;)
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05:16:15  <roboman> bye
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05:47:48  <Celestar> oi
05:48:10  <Celestar> hm the AI DOES build crossing bridges occasionally
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06:00:46  *** Netsplit <-> quits: Darkvater, Triffid_Hunter, roboaway, peter1138, NARS_G, ln-, SimonRC, ShadowJK, Jpl, Fujitsu,  (+6 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
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06:02:05  <Celestar> hm.
06:05:07  <Celestar> Tron: I can reverse vehicles on bridges now
06:05:27  <peter1138> \o/
06:05:28  <peter1138> \o/
06:05:33  <Celestar> morning peter1138
06:06:09  <Celestar> wow .. those Sun Ray 2 "PCs" are great
06:06:20  <Celestar> and DIRT cheap
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06:10:26  <roboaway> hello
06:10:31  *** roboaway is now known as roboman
06:10:33  <Celestar> hey roboman
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06:13:47  <Hackykid> KUDr: you here?
06:14:18  <Celestar> morning Hackykid
06:14:25  <Hackykid> morning Celestar
06:14:34  <Celestar> Hackykid: I need testers :)
06:14:38  <blathijs> morning
06:14:49  <Hackykid> what needs testing?
06:15:05  * roboman thinks its crossing bridges
06:15:13  <Celestar> Hackykid: the bridge branch +
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06:15:44  <Celestar> roboman: your thinking is right (=
06:17:33  <Hackykid> i may look at it tonight if i have time :-)
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06:17:42  <Celestar> Hackykid: that'd be awesome.
06:17:58  <Celestar> Hackykid: and activate some AIs if you wanna have some fun :)
06:18:13  <Hackykid> hehe
06:20:49  <Celestar> some of its installation are particularly brainful
06:22:32  <Celestar> Hackykid: and 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.png
06:22:53  <peter1138> 5?
06:22:57  <Celestar> yeah
06:22:59  <Celestar> new (=
06:23:10  <peter1138> 404 ;p
06:23:14  <Celestar> or not
06:23:30  <Celestar> oh transmission not yet complete
06:23:55  <Celestar> slow pipie here
06:23:59  <Celestar> pipe even
06:24:18  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4706 /trunk/ (lang/english.txt train_cmd.c): - NewGRF: add the correct default error message for the wagon attach callback.
06:24:56  <Celestar> ok peter1138 try now :)
06:25:19  <roboman> how to i apply a dif to the game
06:25:27  <roboman> i tried searching the wiki
06:25:29  <Celestar> patch -p0 -i < filename
06:25:37  <Celestar> then recompile.
06:26:04  <peter1138> erk
06:26:07  <peter1138> nasty layout :P
06:26:09  <Celestar> :P
06:26:26  <Celestar> but it seems to use crossing bridges ... even tho that installation seems rather accidently
06:26:35  <Celestar> well anything the AI does seems accidently
06:26:40  <Celestar> accidentally ?
06:26:44  <peter1138> accidental
06:26:54  <Celestar> yeah
06:26:54  <Hackykid> hmm, isnt i for giving the input a file, and not via stdin
06:27:00  <Celestar> er
06:27:02  <Celestar> yeah
06:27:07  <Celestar> patco -p0 -i filename
06:27:08  <Hackykid> so path -p0 < filename, or patch -p0 -i filename
06:27:11  <Celestar> patch -p0 -i filename
06:27:16  <Celestar> pr patch -p0 < filename
06:27:18  <Celestar> ^^
06:27:20  <Hackykid> :-p
06:27:24  <Celestar> not path, Hackykid  (=
06:27:31  <Hackykid> hehe, true :-)
06:28:17  <roboman> ok
06:28:38  <Celestar> so ... how do I continue now.
06:28:47  <Celestar> maybe I need to FIRST rip apart the control files.
06:32:10  <Hackykid> well, cya laters all
06:32:19  <Hackykid> going to uni now
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06:44:47  <Vornicus> I prefer the -i version
06:44:55  <Vornicus> Oh, and you can use pipes too
06:45:00  <Vornicus> filename | patch -p0
06:45:09  <Vornicus> rather
06:45:13  <Vornicus> cat filename | patch -p0
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06:53:21  * DaleStan awards Vornicus an UUOC award.
06:54:13  <Vornicus> eap "uuoc" > /dev/irc/freenode/openttd
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06:55:19  <Vornicus> (sadly, DaleStan is not bash)
06:55:48  <Vornicus> (also, /dev/irc doesn't exist
06:55:59  <DaleStan> DaleStan: eap: command not found
06:56:14  <Vornicus> apropos eap
06:56:25  <DaleStan> (UUOC is "useless use of cat"; google for more info.)
06:56:46  <Vornicus> eap - Expand Acronym Please
06:57:37  <MiHaMiX> :)
06:58:02  <Celestar> vici@rivendell:[/home/vici/openttd/branch/bridge]> svn diff | wc -l
06:58:03  <Celestar> 3557
06:58:30  <peter1138> "ow"
06:59:09  <peter1138> DaleStan: do you know, off hand, of any sets that use callback 31?
06:59:11  <MiHaMiX> [miham@miham:~/webtranslator]$ svn diff | wc -l
06:59:11  <MiHaMiX> 2017
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06:59:44  <MiHaMiX> bbl, compiling vim7
07:00:10  <Celestar> MiHaMiX: ^^
07:00:16  <Celestar> any good?
07:00:30  <Celestar> I mean why would I use 6 and not 7?
07:00:34  <Celestar> or 7 and not 6?
07:01:04  <MiHaMiX> Celestar: undo branches are quite offering
07:01:12  <Celestar> ah?
07:01:23  <Celestar> that does sound kinda nice.
07:01:25  <MiHaMiX> Celestar: eg.: :earlier 2h
07:01:35  <MiHaMiX> Celestar: it'll undo all changes done in the last 2 hours
07:01:41  <MiHaMiX> Celestar: :later 2h will redo them
07:02:33  <MiHaMiX> Celestar: I'm wondering whether vim8 will includ esuch a feature that I open a new file, issue a :later 2h and it'll fill up the file with that content what I would have written into it if I wouldn't use the :later feature :D
07:02:49  <Celestar> hr hr
07:03:38  <MiHaMiX> what? :)
07:03:52  <MiHaMiX> Celestar:
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07:05:34  <Kalpa> :)
07:05:57  <hector3d> Good morning.
07:06:17  <MiHaMiX> version 7.0c03 BETA
07:06:28  <MiHaMiX> gm2all();
07:07:08  <Celestar> ?
07:08:10  <DaleStan> peter1138: No, I don't.
07:08:35  <MiHaMiX> Celestar: gm2all() is a shorter form of GoodMorningToEveryOne();
07:08:51  <Celestar> lazy typist :P
07:09:24  <Celestar> <Klaxon> Dammit... I'm trying to work with this ridiculously religious client...
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07:09:28  <Celestar>  <Klaxon> He can't set up his forum because he's refusing to chmod 666 :
07:09:51  <Vornicus> well then tell him to chmod a+rw!
07:10:01  <DaleStan> Beat me too it.
07:10:05  <Vornicus> daaah
07:10:15  <Celestar> ^^
07:10:43  <MiHaMiX> Celestar: chmod a+rw
07:11:45  <Celestar> <= OUCH
07:12:10  <Vornicus> ...pain
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07:22:32  <peter1138> ow
07:22:43  <Celestar> ?
07:22:50  <peter1138> your link
07:24:31  <Celestar> ah
07:25:25  <Celestar> so what do I do next :P
07:26:09  <Celestar> note to self: split station_cmd.c and train_cmd.c into different files
07:27:05  <Celestar> they're too big
07:29:26  <KUDr> Celestar: then do train_cmd.c after YAPF merge please
07:29:36  <Celestar> KUDr: of course.
07:29:43  <Celestar> planned that (=
07:29:46  <KUDr> thanks
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07:31:27  <KUDr> did you see last YAPF commit? I had headache with elrails
07:31:38  <Celestar> didn't read it yet-
07:31:41  <Celestar> doing so now
07:31:42  <KUDr> nice bug
07:32:25  <Celestar> KUDr: do you know that there are "compatible railtypes" and "powered railtypes" ?
07:32:42  <KUDr> yes
07:32:49  <KUDr> but this was different
07:32:55  <KUDr> when el-train detected end of segment (since it continued as normal rail) it was cached so
07:33:04  <KUDr> and dieasel reused it
07:33:15  <KUDr> with end of line flag cached
07:33:24  <Celestar> ah
07:33:33  <Celestar> what about mixed consist? how do they act?
07:33:33  <KUDr> very nice
07:34:07  <KUDr> i use that IsCompatibleRail always
07:34:36  <KUDr> but here it was cached, that segment ends
07:34:43  <KUDr> this was the problem
07:34:58  <KUDr> because the first PF run was on el-train
07:35:06  <KUDr> and then diesel
07:35:22  <KUDr> and the EOL flag differs - but it didn't
07:36:16  <peter1138> that's a lot of code inside a header file
07:36:21  <Celestar> KUDr: maybe you should add penalty if some engines don't have power ..
07:36:36  <KUDr> Celestar: maybe
07:36:52  <KUDr> peter1138: yes i know - this is how templates work
07:37:08  <KUDr> look at stl
07:37:17  <KUDr> or boost
07:37:29  <KUDr> or any other template library
07:38:29  <Celestar> KUDr: so that mixed consist will only use convrail if there is no other way ..
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07:38:54  <MeusH> hello
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07:39:21  <KUDr> Celestar: i understand - but somebody must teach me how to detect the power loss in percent
07:39:37  <KUDr> hello MeusH
07:40:05  <MeusH> hey KUDr and Celestar
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07:44:39  <Celestar> KUDr: ok
07:45:23  <Celestar> TrainPowerChanged gives you the basic idea.
07:45:45  <Celestar> KUDr: but I wouldn't do that complicated a computation
07:47:59  <Celestar> GNAHH
07:48:12  <Celestar> Darkvater: you anywhere near?
07:48:47  <KUDr> Celestar: it would require some array of cached powers for different rail types
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07:49:02  <Celestar> KUDr: maybe that is something for after the merge?
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07:49:04  <KUDr> only so i can use in yapf
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07:49:24  <KUDr> maybe
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07:50:17  <KUDr> then i can see power loss and can add penalties for that
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07:52:43  <Matt-W> hmm, I wonder why I reconnected
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07:54:24  <blathijs> Matt-W: netsplit, probably
07:54:36  <Matt-W> yeah probably
07:54:46  <Matt-W> oh well, I shan't worry about it
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08:00:05  <Darkvater> morning
08:00:11  <Matt-W> morning
08:00:37  <Darkvater> GUI
08:00:48  * Darkvater is going to annoy Matt-W every day until he tarts to work ^^
08:01:01  <Celestar> morning Darkvater
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08:01:09  <Matt-W> fine, I'll go and work on gnome sudoku instead
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08:04:17  <Matt-W> Darkvater: so what do you want from the GUI
08:04:45  <peter1138> how do you set headers and sub titles etc in word?
08:04:55  <peter1138> or do you have to do it the gay stupid fucktard way of changing the font size?
08:05:00  <Matt-W> use the style thingy
08:05:14  <peter1138> where's that?
08:05:26  <Matt-W> should be on the formatting toolbar
08:05:32  <peter1138> styles and formmating. hmm.
08:05:35  <Matt-W> it's a dropdown
08:05:46  <peter1138> gay shit
08:05:59  <Matt-W> word has a bunch of heading styles that have meaning to the table of contents generator etc.
08:06:09  <Matt-W> it's a nasty hack on top of a formatting-oriented system
08:09:56  <Vornicus> HTML has a bunch of heading styles that don't mean shit unless your user agent decides to treat them specially.
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08:10:45  <Celestar> rats why is the connection @ $GF that damn slo.w
08:10:53  <Celestar> nominal speed is 6 MBits down
08:11:35  <Celestar> word processors are usually The Unsuitable Tool (TM) for what you're doing
08:11:45  <Darkvater> Matt-W: :)
08:11:54  <Darkvater> it's fun imitating born_acorn
08:12:31  <Celestar> Darkvater: you at work?
08:12:47  <Celestar> or are you busy?
08:13:02  <Darkvater> at work and just a little busy
08:13:12  <Darkvater> try not to be busy at all but I can't do that for 8 hours ;P
08:13:21  <Celestar> but I guess work is not ottd-safe? :P
08:13:27  <Darkvater> :(
08:13:44  <Celestar> but diff-save?
08:13:52  <Darkvater> depends on diff-size
08:14:25  <Celestar> vici@rivendell:[/home/vici/openttd/branch/bridge]> svn diff | wc -l
08:14:25  <Celestar> 3634
08:14:41  <Celestar> small diff :P
08:14:47  <Celestar> just about 3% of the code :P
08:15:00  <Darkvater> :)
08:15:18  <Celestar> well a bit less
08:15:22  <Celestar> vici@rivendell:[/home/vici/openttd/branch/bridge]> cat *.[ch] */*.[ch] */*/*.[ch] | wc -l
08:15:23  <Darkvater> Celestar: can you have a look at 0.4.8 though a bit? The forum post where I have posted the revisions for you to look at
08:15:26  <Celestar> 140136
08:15:34  <Darkvater> you call THAT less?
08:15:35  <Celestar> Darkvater: ok I will
08:15:54  <Celestar> Darkvater: I mean less than 3% :P
08:16:14  <Darkvater> although the problem is that I think we cannot fix any of the multistop thingies because it requires a savegame bump :(
08:16:31  <Celestar> Darkvater: if tron shows up, PLEASE poke him to have a look at
08:16:44  <Celestar> <= here's a savegame to test.
08:16:51  <Celestar> Darkvater: also tell him that I fixed reversing
08:16:56  <Darkvater> kk
08:17:21  <Darkvater> why is the bridge cool? Is it so high that temperatures drop severly?
08:19:12  <Celestar> (=
08:19:21  <Celestar> Darkvater: I vote for backporting r4506.
08:19:34  <Celestar> it's a microscopic change.
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08:21:30  <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: are you willing to backport my fix for ShowQueryString() ?
08:21:53  <Darkvater> MiHaMiX: read topic
08:22:01  <Celestar> Darkvater: for the multistop, we CAN backport if, if we do not break saveload compatibility
08:22:35  <Celestar> which means there must not have been another savegame revision bump in between.
08:22:46  <Darkvater> which is not possible because you need to update cache/settings/whatever if I read the diff correctly. But MS is your ball so if you say it is possible then we can :)
08:22:48  <Celestar> Darkvater: there is a way to do it without a savegame revision bump anyways.
08:23:09  <Darkvater> MiHaMiX: I think I already put it in the list of todo-backport
08:23:47  <Celestar> Darkvater: 4466 needs to be backported somehow.
08:24:47  <Celestar> DAMNIT
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08:25:14  <Sacro> morning all
08:25:20  <Celestar> I vote for a new commit guideline: clearly mark every savegame revision modification with "--SAVEGAME REVISION BUMP--"
08:25:58  <Darkvater> :)
08:26:43  <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: maybe it's me, but I can't find 4690 in the list
08:27:22  <Celestar> Darkvater: about 4466 we should at least saveguard against a crash.
08:27:31  <Celestar> Darkvater: with some IsValidVehicle check or something
08:28:18  <Darkvater> hmm that is possible
08:29:23  <Darkvater> MiHaMiX: second page
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08:30:47  <MeusH> AFAIK you backport to have some more time to do preparations for 0.5.0. But this backporting is a totally mess and loss of your time. Why not to tell people "wait a bit more, give us some more time, and we will give you 0.5.0"
08:31:04  <Celestar> MeusH: because it's time for a bugfix release :)
08:31:28  <Darkvater> MeusH: all I have to tell you is 0.4.6
08:31:40  <Darkvater> 8 months!!
08:31:44  <Celestar> me->shower()
08:31:47  <MeusH> ehh
08:31:48  <MeusH> allright
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08:31:51  <MeusH> bye Celestar
08:32:07  <Darkvater> + if we don't backport or branch there will either never be a release or a feature freeze for 2-3 months of mostly idling
08:32:11  <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: ok, thanks
08:32:34  <MiHaMiX> me->breakfast()
08:32:36  <Celestar> Darkvater: there should/will be alpha/beta/rc releases.
08:32:51  <Darkvater> 10:31 < Celestar> me->shower()
08:33:08  <Celestar> shower.busy == true
08:33:12  <MeusH> :P
08:33:32  <Celestar> shower.passenger.hot_chick == false
08:33:33  <MeusH> waterproof_comp == also_true; :D
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08:34:11  <Darkvater> shower.passanger.get_hot_chick()
08:34:15  <Celestar> if (shower.busy && !shower.passenger.hot_chick) me.wait(!shower.busy)
08:34:18  <Darkvater> eh passenger
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08:34:45  <Celestar> Darkvater: I'll read through all the multistop stuff and see what I can do for 0.4.8
08:34:46  <MeusH> if (shower.busy && !shower.passenger.hot_chick) you.join(shower)
08:35:05  <Celestar> Darkvater: I can all be done on-the-fly.
08:35:07  <Celestar> it*
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08:36:03  <Darkvater> Celestar: if it can, I think backporting ms is a good option
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08:42:31  <peter1138> hmm
08:42:37  <Darkvater> oops
08:42:48  <Darkvater> sorry
08:42:53  <peter1138> so i implemented callback 0x31 (very similar to 0x1D) but i don't know of any set that uses it
08:43:03  <peter1138> it's the "start/stop vehicle" check
08:44:01  <Sacro> peter1138: its nice to know its there
08:44:01  <Darkvater> what does it check?
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08:44:41  <MeusH> Asserion failed :|
08:46:43  <Darkvater> peter1138: what does it check about 'start/stop vehicle'?
08:46:58  <peter1138> whether a vehicle can be started or stopped, heh
08:46:59  <Darkvater> if you are allowed to start it or something?
08:47:12  <Darkvater> sounds like a weird callback
08:47:31  <peter1138> e.g. the ICE3 in dbsetxl that wants a fixed number of carriages
08:47:51  <peter1138> (although that doesn't use it)
08:48:05  <Sacro> im guessing for fixed length consists?
08:48:15  <peter1138> yeah
08:49:09  <MiHaMiX>
08:49:26  <Darkvater> peter1138: doesn't it use the 'invisible wagons'-hack? Or why doesn't it use 0x1D callback the one where you can't add wagons to your engine
08:49:54  <peter1138> Darkvater: 0x1D doesn't work for requiring 4 or 8 or 16 carriages
08:50:08  <peter1138> it only stops you adding extra wagons
08:50:11  <Darkvater> ah
08:50:23  <Darkvater> so it just checks type
08:50:27  <peter1138> i'm guessing dbsetxl is just outdated :)
08:50:37  <peter1138> well, it checks whatever the grf wants to check
08:50:43  <MeusH> :) MiHaMiX
08:50:45  <peter1138> callbacks are very flexible
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08:51:49  <peter1138> fucking documentation
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08:52:02  <peter1138> "Method 2 - XML web service"
08:52:04  <peter1138> "Hmm"
08:52:11  <peter1138> i need to finish it ;p
08:54:16  <Darkvater> just write N/A
08:55:51  <Celestar> peter1138: you got a sec?
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08:56:24  <Celestar> me->shower() finished
08:56:24  <peter1138> not really
08:56:44  <Celestar> ok ping me if you have
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09:00:41  <Celestar> Darkvater: what about YOU? :)
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09:02:13  <Celestar> bah where in the newgrf specs can I set a variable?
09:02:45  <_MeusH_> who's me?
09:02:49  <_MeusH_3> who's me?
09:02:53  <Celestar> :P
09:02:56  <_MeusH_> looks like noone
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09:03:20  <peter1138> Celestar: to do what?
09:03:25  <peter1138> you said newgrf, i'm interested now ;p
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09:03:34  <Darkvater> haha
09:03:49  <Darkvater> Celestar: you use variables hacked into the grffile->params array
09:03:53  <|MeusH|> me
09:03:54  <Darkvater> I think
09:03:57  <|MeusH|> not me
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09:04:07  <MeusH> horray
09:04:40  <Celestar> peter1138: when loading a bridge-newgrf, I need to set certain variables (there will be a lot more info in the Bridge-struct soon). but how/where do I define them and how do we sync with patchman?
09:05:26  <peter1138> ah, you're adding new bits
09:05:30  <Celestar> yeah.
09:05:43  <peter1138> i'd just add them to BridgeChangeInfo()
09:05:52  <peter1138> use the next available property number
09:05:55  <Celestar> because each bridge needs to give info on how much clearance it needs above, which trackbits are allowed below it and stuff.
09:06:01  <peter1138> right
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09:06:05  <peter1138> hmm
09:06:10  <Celestar> peter1138: where are those property numbers.
09:06:22  <Celestar> also, this information varies with bridge piece.
09:06:35  <peter1138> hang on, phone call :(
09:06:38  <Celestar> ok
09:06:40  <Celestar> no hurry.
09:08:09  <Celestar> peter1138: so next would be 0F (clearance above), 10 (track below permitted) ...
09:08:36  <Darkvater> which trackbits are allowed below it? That depends on the bridge length and pillar layout I suppose
09:09:14  <Celestar> Darkvater: yes. it's got to be hardcoded for each bridge piece.
09:09:28  <Celestar> Darkvater: but it would be nice to have different bridges with different advantages or disadvantages.
09:09:54  <peter1138> how many bridge pieces are there?
09:10:04  <Celestar> like Cantilevers can only have perpendicular tracks, but can have crossing bridges with a height difference of only 1 (with special sprites)
09:10:14  <peter1138> 16?
09:10:19  <Celestar> peter1138: 5 for the main bridge thing
09:10:26  <Celestar> some for the pillars.
09:10:28  <Celestar> some for the ramps
09:10:48  <peter1138> oh so it's the 7 bridge tables then
09:10:52  <peter1138> but ramps don't count
09:10:56  <Celestar> yeah
09:10:58  <peter1138> and do pillars? hmm
09:11:02  <peter1138> so you need 5 byte values?
09:11:16  <peter1138> i'd specify it as property 10 requires 5 bytes
09:11:20  <Celestar> for the clearance yes.
09:11:21  <peter1138> which are track bits
09:11:29  <peter1138> hmm, and for 0F then :)
09:11:32  <Celestar> and anover 5 bytes for the trackbits.
09:11:33  <peter1138> track bits... what about road bits?
09:11:42  <Celestar> you can map trackbits to road bits (=
09:11:54  <peter1138> is that wise?
09:11:58  <peter1138> road is wider than rail too
09:11:58  <peter1138> also
09:12:05  <Celestar> ok.
09:12:09  <peter1138> i would specify it as track below *not* permitted
09:12:15  <Celestar> well that's just the amount of properties below.
09:12:16  <peter1138> then a default value of 0 allows everything
09:12:19  <Celestar> yes.
09:12:21  <Celestar> good idea.
09:12:27  <Celestar> but we should sync with patchman right?
09:12:49  <peter1138> i'll notify him
09:13:06  <peter1138> or will when he's around :)
09:13:20  <peter1138> he's already said to me that we can just edit the wiki to add our own bits to it
09:13:31  <peter1138> (but it's good to speak to him first)
09:13:34  <Celestar> great.
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09:13:40  * Celestar joins quakenet
09:13:41  <peter1138> shall i reserve them there?
09:13:49  <RichK67> hi all
09:13:50  <Kalpa> Quakenet?
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09:13:56  <MeusH> hello RichK67
09:14:03  <MeusH> Kalpa: #tycoon is on the Quakenet
09:14:13  <Celestar> peter1138: a bit later. I'll first have to define how many parameters I need
09:14:16  <Kalpa> and what exactly is #tycoon? :>
09:14:26  <Celestar> peter1138: that WILL take a while.
09:14:30  <peter1138> ok
09:14:48  <peter1138> Kalpa: it's where the ttdpatch crowd lurk
09:14:50  <Celestar> because I want things graphically correct, so I first need to define all that stuff for the existing bridges
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09:15:12  <Celestar> and then I can extrapolate what I need for new bridges.
09:15:26  <Celestar> Darkvater: good news. we can now have to up 32 different bridge types (I think that's enough)
09:15:35  <RichK67> celestar: TGP now in its own files - i just need to sort out the gui changes
09:15:35  <peter1138> 32? hmm
09:15:38  <peter1138> cool
09:15:49  <Celestar> RichK67: excellent :)
09:15:50  <peter1138> btw
09:15:57  <Celestar> yes?
09:16:13  <peter1138> i came up with a spec for using the spritegroup resolver code for bridges
09:16:21  <peter1138> it needs clarifying
09:16:21  <Celestar> nice :)
09:16:33  <peter1138> as it was for the existing system
09:16:38  <RichK67> ive done most of the changes you asked for... still unsure about TILELOOP etc tho...
09:16:38  <peter1138> but it would allow variation
09:16:48  <Celestar> Darkvater: peter1138: what would you say about allowing bridge over CERTAIN station tiles (namely the ones without a roof?)
09:17:02  <Celestar> or just set a clearance limit for those as well?
09:17:03  <peter1138> Celestar: very tricky when newstations comes along
09:17:06  <Sacro> Celestar: i wouldn't stand on that part of the platform
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09:17:27  <Celestar> ok then we'll not allow it for the time being.
09:17:28  <XeryusTC> good morning everyone
09:17:30  <Celestar> easier for me :)
09:18:02  <Sacro> morning XeryusTC
09:18:05  <peter1138> problem with the new bridge spec is: it's pretty incompatible
09:18:11  <Celestar> peter1138: so lets ask him right away.
09:18:17  <Celestar> peter1138: incompatible with what?
09:18:17  <peter1138> he's not awake
09:18:31  <peter1138> with the existing system
09:18:41  <peter1138> basically it allows for totally custom tile layouts
09:18:54  <Celestar> for bridges?
09:18:56  <peter1138> instead of just changing the sprites that get placed at fixed positions
09:18:57  <peter1138> yes
09:19:13  <Celestar> elaborate :)
09:19:21  <peter1138> means you don't get sprite sorter issues trying to fit the sprites in
09:20:06  <RichK67> peter: will newstations allow a multi tile dock to make harbours??
09:20:52  <peter1138> no, it's rail stations only currently
09:21:05  <peter1138> old shot of the new bridge system,,%2031st%20Oct%202030.png
09:21:09  <RichK67> okies
09:21:23  <peter1138> (obviously i hadn't got the grf quite right there ;))
09:21:48  <peter1138> you can see it allows for different graphics based on what's below the bridge though
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09:22:00  <peter1138> it also allows joining bridges together
09:23:34  <Celestar> peter1138: that will not work with our new bridge system as of now.
09:24:11  <peter1138> what won't, and why?
09:24:25  <Celestar> because neither the bridge type nor the bridge section is saved.
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09:24:39  <Celestar> it is computed on the fly from the bridge head
09:24:46  * Vornicus ponders OTTD on a tabletPC.
09:24:50  <peter1138> Celestar: so? it is computed on the fly there too :)
09:25:03  <Celestar> 12 out of 15 hunks FAILED -- saving rejects to file roadveh_cmd.c.rej
09:25:07  <Celestar> peter1138: from what information?
09:25:53  * Vornicus eyes that screenshot, too.
09:25:58  <Vornicus> sweeeeeeeeeeeeet
09:25:58  <RichK67> vorn - OTTD on my pocket pc phone would be the end of normal life... id never get anything done!!
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09:26:28  <peter1138> Celestar: based on many different things, including the bridge section (calculated or not)
09:26:48  <RichK67> bbl
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09:27:01  <peter1138> Celestar: simply, it's a callback that provides the bridge section to draw
09:27:41  <peter1138> hmm
09:28:05  <peter1138> with a couple of persistent map bits for random data, we can have variations for dirty, graffiti, etc
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09:28:16  <peter1138> -y
09:28:32  * Matt-W blinks
09:28:38  <Matt-W> bridge without ramps? why?
09:28:46  <peter1138> Matt-W: because i hadn't drawn them yet
09:28:55  <Matt-W> peter1138: okay :-)
09:29:04  <Matt-W> so there are supposed to be some then
09:29:13  <peter1138> yes
09:29:16  <Matt-W> that's reassuring
09:29:25  <Celestar> peter1138: that'll need more map bits.
09:29:25  <Matt-W> although it might be fun to send trains off the end of bridges into the sea or something
09:29:36  <Celestar> peter1138: and you have 4 of them.
09:29:40  <Celestar> at the present time
09:29:51  * Matt-W ponders adding a lightning-bolt-from-the-sky function
09:30:30  <peter1138> bah
09:30:35  <peter1138> need to get back to this document
09:31:18  * Vornicus needs to get back to things that label him as demented and self-hating.
09:31:41  <MiHaMiX> rewritable CD:
09:31:58  <Sacro> MiHaMiX: hehe
09:32:02  <Vornicus> bad.
09:32:37  <peter1138> Celestar: basically, if this system did come about, we'd need to allow for more than 5 different bridge pieces
09:32:46  <peter1138> for height/trackbit purposes
09:34:57  *** robodinner is now known as roboman
09:39:26  <peter1138> probably a variable amount
09:39:27  <peter1138> hmm
09:40:42  <Celestar> Darkvater: I'm attempting to backport multistop stuff
09:40:59  <Celestar> peter1138: ok.
09:41:10  <Celestar> peter1138: somehow we needa do one step after another I guess :)
09:41:38  <Celestar> otherwise, there's muddle
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09:44:00  <peter1138> yeah
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09:44:27  <peter1138> it would be nice to get the nfo spec right though :)
09:44:51  <peter1138> could be 0F 05 nn nn nn nn nn (where 5 is the number of pieces)
09:45:11  <peter1138> hmm
09:45:16  <Celestar> yes
09:45:18  <Celestar> GNAH
09:45:27  <Vornicus> gnaa is not here.
09:45:50  <peter1138> hmm, you need to get into dynamically allocated memory then ;(
09:46:15  <Sacro> bbl all
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09:46:31  <peter1138> technically there could be, uh, 32511 different pieces
09:46:41  <peter1138> (largest callback return value)
09:46:47  <Celestar> ok guys.
09:46:52  <Vornicus> ...that's an absurd number of pieces.
09:46:53  <Vornicus> slep
09:47:06  <Celestar> I need old (0.4.7 or earlier) savegames
09:48:19  <peter1138> Vornicus: yes
09:48:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i am sure i got some
09:48:57  <peter1138> Vornicus: but each different graphic variation needs a new bridge piece
09:49:41  <peter1138> Vornicus: joining adjacent bridges, different graphics for different tile types below the bridge (or different graphics for crossing bridge pieces)
09:50:09  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: with a number of road vehicles?
09:50:09  <peter1138> hmm, that might solve the problem
09:50:25  <Eddi|zuHause> hardly
09:50:34  <peter1138> we could assume that if bridges cross, it will use a bridge piece that allows the correct clearance
09:50:40  <Eddi|zuHause> is 3 enough? ;)
09:50:46  <Eddi|zuHause> i do trains usually
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09:52:12  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: let me get back to you later.
09:55:13  <Celestar> Darkvater: backporting will work, but its most re-typing half of it
09:55:17  <Celestar> mostly even
09:58:03  <Celestar> I hate gdb sometimes
09:59:11  <blathijs> Celestar: Why is that?
10:01:44  <Celestar> well, because I have different opinions about what it ought to do.
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10:02:23  <black_Nightmare> hey
10:03:24  <Celestar> blathijs: for example, it ought not to segfault
10:04:20  <Darkvater> that is a valid requirement :)
10:04:37  <Darkvater> Celestar: great (about MS). Will it also work without sg-bump?
10:05:33  * SmileyG looks about
10:05:51  <ledow> \While everyone is awake: Comments on this patch?
10:07:58  <Celestar> Darkvater: yes it will. I'm just not saving or loading any slot assignments.
10:08:04  <Celestar> hmmz
10:08:07  <Celestar> that won't work.
10:08:24  <Celestar> well yes it will
10:08:34  <Celestar> er wAIT
10:08:38  <Celestar> Darkvater: let me get back to you later.
10:09:04  <Darkvater> think about MP though
10:09:17  <Celestar> yes.
10:09:20  <Celestar> that's what I gotta test.
10:09:44  <Celestar> it will needa revision bump. :S
10:09:55  <Celestar> hmmz
10:09:59  * Celestar tries to trick
10:10:44  <Celestar> Darkvater: it'll take a while to figure that out ...
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10:15:53  <Celestar> Darkvater: not before tonight or tomorrow morning
10:18:25  <black_Nightmare> any of you know what happens if you try use two newgrf's together that have some shared ID's?
10:18:41  <black_Nightmare> does the one highest up in order (in the openttd file) gets its turn?
10:19:15  <Eddi|zuHause> err... usually, the later one overwrites the first
10:19:22  <peter1138> they're loaded in order, to the... yes
10:19:40  <peter1138> basically, it's best not to mix them
10:19:58  <black_Nightmare> peter..thanks...was wondering about taking a few trainsets together (especially to different climates too) .. and see what eventually shows up
10:20:08  <black_Nightmare> I ask why not?
10:20:18  <peter1138> because strange undesirable things happen
10:21:11  <black_Nightmare> hmm...fair enough
10:21:40  <black_Nightmare> at least signals and trains are seperate id or its possible for the two to conflict that you don't get both?
10:22:02  <peter1138> signals and trains are totally separate things
10:22:28  <peter1138> you can of course mix newgrfs that deal with different things
10:23:27  <black_Nightmare> thanks ;)
10:23:51  <black_Nightmare> going see what kind of map I eventually turn up with (especially for custom stations/buildings too)
10:24:20  <peter1138> well don't bother loading newstations or whatever
10:24:23  <peter1138> because they're not supported yet
10:25:12  <Celestar> ARGGGHHH
10:25:20  <black_Nightmare> I meant station graphics :p
10:25:21  * Celestar curses at branch/0.4
10:25:24  <black_Nightmare> not actual stations
10:25:35  <Celestar> guys we needa re-think our backport strategy.
10:25:45  <Celestar> if something important is fixed, backport right away.
10:25:57  <peter1138> looks nice though
10:27:15  <black_Nightmare> peter..heh yeah that...I'm not sure if I like the original stations all the times
10:27:51  <black_Nightmare> not to mention...why doesn't it have a roof that can span odd platforms anyhow?  (a bit funny to have a 5-platform station and one isn't even under the know?)
10:28:09  <black_Nightmare> but having to repeatly click multiply times to get nonroofed platforms is a bit boring ^_^
10:28:29  <Vornicus> I want toyland to have passenger trains with, like, fisher price people on it, and mail trains with big envelopes!
10:29:16  <Vornicus> Idunno.  The only station I know of with an actual roof over the actual platforms is Grand Central, and that hardly counts, because it's underground.
10:30:09  <black_Nightmare> yeah...but repeatly clicking just to not have the roof is a drag sometimes (you know... adding one platform one by one)
10:30:20  <black_Nightmare> so..I'll like to find a different station graphic to try with ;)
10:30:23  <Celestar> ARGGHH
10:30:31  <Celestar> backporting all the multistop crap is a nightmare
10:31:11  <black_Nightmare> thanks to whoever told me of grfcrawler....
10:31:23  <black_Nightmare> thats helping a LOT .. looking through many grf's in one place
10:31:24  <black_Nightmare> :p
10:31:50  <black_Nightmare> say vorn/peter...quick question anyhow but...
10:32:02  <black_Nightmare> can stations change over years or the code isn't quite there?
10:32:26  <black_Nightmare> (eg you only have option for small brick depot in early years but can get large maison station future on)
10:32:35  <black_Nightmare> umm excuse my spelling ^_^
10:35:25  <Eddi|zuHause> whatever you want (regarding stations) is probably not there yet...
10:35:52  <black_Nightmare> hmmm ty
10:36:11  <black_Nightmare> at least the airports can kinda get away with that
10:36:15  <Eddi|zuHause> Vornicus: i don't know where you live, but all major stations i know got roofs
10:36:21  <black_Nightmare> small airport only early on then have international airport in the modern era
10:37:06  <Eddi|zuHause> black_Nightmare: check out richk's 6 new airports
10:37:29  <roboman> in the end you will chose your self what stations you build
10:37:39  <Eddi|zuHause> (contained in the mini_IN)
10:38:08  <black_Nightmare> robo..hmm nice
10:38:36  <TiberiusTeng> speaking of newgrf newstations ... is there anyone working on it now? just curious
10:38:39  * Celestar is getting nightmares
10:38:51  <peter1138> Celestar: don't bother backporting then?
10:38:59  <peter1138> if it can't be done, it can't be done
10:39:06  <peter1138> it could just wait for 0.5
10:39:27  <peter1138> TiberiusTeng: of course there is ;p
10:39:49  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure if i want to get newstations at the cost of PBS
10:39:56  <Celestar> peter1138: I'm giving it another attempt
10:39:57  <TiberiusTeng> ah!!! peter1138 ;)
10:41:23  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause: i can work around that, but savegames won't be compatible
10:41:25  <peter1138> (are they anyway?)
10:41:43  <Eddi|zuHause> usually not
10:41:53  <Eddi|zuHause> because of different patch settings
10:42:05  <TiberiusTeng> remembered i saw your newstation screenshots last november ... glad to know you're still working on it
10:42:13  <Celestar> peter1138: Darkvater: what about release 0.4.8 betas or RCs ?
10:42:31  <black_Nightmare> screenshot?  can I see it? :p
10:44:23  <Celestar> Darkvater: I have backported all the multistop stuff, but it needs multiplayer testing.
10:45:16  <Celestar> so who's in for a test?
10:46:49  <Celestar> <= please test
10:47:13  <TiberiusTeng> Eddi|zuHause, sounds like newstations conflicts with PBS ?
10:47:42  <Celestar> it does.
10:47:49  <KUDr_wrk> how?
10:48:44  <Eddi|zuHause> it uses map bits that are used by the old (inofficial) PBS patch
10:49:05  <KUDr_wrk> for stations only or for all tile types?
10:49:11  <Eddi|zuHause> for stations
10:49:16  <KUDr_wrk> then no prob
10:49:28  <KUDr_wrk> no prob for new PBS
10:49:45  <KUDr_wrk> the old one will be in troubles
10:49:58  <Eddi|zuHause> i guess not ;)
10:50:07  <TiberiusTeng> I see ... so there's still chance to see it in later versions of OpenTTD ?
10:50:16  <Eddi|zuHause> new PBS should not be dependent on map bits... only on what the pathfinder returns (needs to be deterministic somehow)
10:50:42  <black_Nightmare> again remind me...are rail/monorail/maglev of different ID grouping or shared?
10:50:46  <KUDr_wrk> Eddi|zuHause: heh, it must store the reservations somewhere
10:51:12  <Eddi|zuHause> that's what i mean... if it's deterministic, it does not need to be stored
10:51:17  <SmileyG> huuuum
10:51:18  <SmileyG> :o
10:51:29  * SmileyG notices everytime he makes some money the computer comes and steals it
10:51:41  <KUDr_wrk> Eddi|zuHause: it can't be deterministic without storing that info
10:51:50  <KUDr_wrk> situations changes every tick
10:51:54  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... maybe
10:52:04  <black_Nightmare> sorry if I have weird questions this morning anyhow
10:52:15  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: sooner or later, we will have MORE bits in the map array :)
10:52:16  <black_Nightmare> me now looking at alternative monorail tracks and wondering about trying these ^_^
10:52:41  <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: anyway i will need to store PBS info somewhere else
10:52:47  <KUDr_wrk> not in the map
10:52:54  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: why is that?
10:53:11  <KUDr_wrk> to know what train has it reserved for example
10:53:16  <Celestar> ah
10:53:22  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd say you should handle that in the pathfinder
10:53:24  <KUDr_wrk> to be able to renegotiate the reservation
10:53:36  <KUDr_wrk> and find better solutions for all trains
10:54:09  <KUDr_wrk> Eddi|zuHause: pathfinder triggers for each train separately
10:54:31  <KUDr_wrk> how it can know where are other trains and what paths they have reserved
10:55:05  <KUDr_wrk> it will be one big state machine
10:55:11  <Eddi|zuHause> then do a super-pathfinder
10:55:15  <KUDr_wrk> so it must store tons of info
10:55:31  <Eddi|zuHause> that can handle additional load balancing and stuff
10:56:25  <KUDr_wrk> easy to tell
10:56:34  <KUDr_wrk> and possible to do for new game
10:56:44  <KUDr_wrk> but not for ottd as it is now
10:57:28  <black_Nightmare> hmm weird... I put this station grf in openttd file and loaded openttd -- and its not showing up...hmmmmm......
10:57:32  <KUDr_wrk> and where do you want to store info for load balancing?
10:57:46  <XeryusTC> black_Nightmare: you need to wait for newstations
10:58:09  <KUDr_wrk> you can call it super PF or PBS or load balancer, but it will be one big state machine anyway
10:58:10  <peter1138> newstations conflicts with pbs because newstations uses all the map bits
10:58:19  <black_Nightmare> oh ic....meh...guess I'll have to stick to the original stations for now I take it?
10:58:29  <peter1138> black_Nightmare: as i said...
10:58:36  <peter1138> 11:25 < peter1138> well don't bother loading newstations or whatever
10:58:51  <black_Nightmare> I thought it was just a change of graphics...meh
10:58:56  <Matt-W> new map array! new map array!
10:58:57  <black_Nightmare> seeing all these old screenshots
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11:01:30  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: I'm updating my signalling document
11:02:24  <KUDr_wrk> ok
11:02:33  <peter1138> if i limit the speclist to 128, then pbs can fit in
11:02:33  <peter1138> hmm
11:02:48  <peter1138> otoh, if i limit the speclist to 16...
11:04:00  <Eddi|zuHause> KUDr: what i envisioned was, regarding the fixed path idea, whenever the pathfinder crosses 2 fixed paths, you negotiate which train can take an alternate route, if that fails, decide which train to stop at red signal (explicit/implicit priorities (speed/cargo type/cargo amount?))
11:04:57  <roboman> gnight
11:05:07  <KUDr_wrk> real load-balancing can't work with stopping trains - better to slow it down in advance
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11:05:46  <KUDr_wrk> but anyway for that we will need lot of bits for each signal
11:06:07  <KUDr_wrk> so we will need out-of-map structures somewhere else
11:06:10  *** roboman [] has quit ["bedtime"]
11:06:14  <KUDr_wrk> like mem-pool
11:06:19  <black_Nightmare> am I being a bit crazy or its a good idea to load up openttd and quickly test every new grf file you add in just to be sure it works + there's no id conflict?
11:06:24  <black_Nightmare> (hopes I am not!)
11:06:47  <SmileyG> damn im so rubbish at this :D
11:07:00  <SmileyG> Anyone up for a mutiplayer wit ha noobie?
11:07:02  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think you need signal bits... signal states should easily be calculated out of the fixed path reserved through them
11:07:26  <XeryusTC> SmileyG: you saw my screenie from yesterday?
11:07:38  <SmileyG> yes....
11:07:41  <KUDr_wrk> but for negotiating you need to know what trains want to pass
11:07:44  <Eddi|zuHause> if no path reserved -> signal = red
11:08:07  <XeryusTC> SmileyG: try to connect 2-3 coal mines to a power station to get money, and then start a network like that :)
11:08:16  <black_Nightmare> smileyg...if you can host the server (or something) I'll be happy to join you
11:08:43  <Eddi|zuHause> for each "open" fixed path -> all signals on it's path = green
11:08:45  <XeryusTC> build the network when you dont have a loan anymore
11:08:53  <peter1138> KUDr_wrk: or just add more bits to the map array
11:09:01  <SmileyG> i can't host
11:09:04  <SmileyG> stuck behind a nat + more
11:09:11  <Eddi|zuHause> for each "blocked" fixed path -> last signal = red, all previous signals = yellow
11:09:17  <KUDr_wrk> peter1138: it too much for few tiles only
11:09:40  <SmileyG> hehe im actually making money i think :D
11:09:42  <KUDr_wrk> this is not like flat info needed for each tile type
11:09:47  <SmileyG> the problem is i left hte opoenents on :o
11:09:57  <SmileyG> and they just set up trucks and steal all my dosh :(
11:10:04  <black_Nightmare> smileyg...I tried get my own server up twice but can't seem to get it right so I only join/play -others'- servers instead
11:10:10  <black_Nightmare> less hassle for me if you would pls :p
11:10:23  <KUDr_wrk> Eddi|zuHause: try it and you will see
11:10:29  <SmileyG> well i psyhically can't host a server
11:10:33  <SmileyG> its impossible to connect.
11:10:33  <SmileyG> :D
11:10:44  <SmileyG> anyway i think i should start over and errr
11:10:55  <SmileyG> my factorys stil ldotn produce any goods :o
11:11:07  <SmileyG> rofl, spoke too soon :D
11:11:33  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: please review
11:12:39  <Celestar> ok I'm off a little bit
11:12:46  <peter1138> pdf :(
11:13:03  <Eddi|zuHause> i think we need a special "platform" signal type
11:13:04  <SmileyG> ahahah thats funny, my trainstation blocks all the trucks from getting to the depo due to the traffic signals xD
11:13:13  <Eddi|zuHause> for use with 2-way-stations
11:16:00  <KUDr_wrk> Eddi|zuHause: no, you just need to skip to the upper level and switch off the turn around in the stations
11:16:13  <KUDr_wrk> and don't play as beginner
11:16:53  <Eddi|zuHause> the point is, to actually allow turning around
11:17:11  <KUDr_wrk> it good only for traffic jams
11:17:17  <KUDr_wrk> it is very ineffective
11:17:36  <Eddi|zuHause> exactly... it should be made effective
11:17:49  <KUDr_wrk> more realistic - this is only the benefit i see in it
11:17:56  <black_Nightmare> hmm I got to ask a question...
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11:18:49  <KUDr_wrk> Eddi|zuHause: and maybe with PBS you will not need signals around each platform
11:18:52  <black_Nightmare> I downloaded this and added it to bottom of the openttd file (using uklcw.grf .. deleted the dos file) then closed it and loaded openttd to seeing its not showing up at all?
11:19:10  <black_Nightmare> [just wondering if I was doing something wrong or its not supported in openttd yet?]
11:19:26  <Eddi|zuHause> i hate the no-signal idea
11:19:26  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4707 /trunk/newgrf_station.c: - NewGRF: minor code duffage; return early and less indentation.
11:19:58  <black_Nightmare> I kinda don't want the original road crossing anymore so unless someone tell me this one really wouldn't work..I want to have it :p hehe
11:20:07  <Eddi|zuHause> we could scrap signals alltogether then...
11:20:22  <Eddi|zuHause> that kinda defeats the point
11:20:42  <KUDr_wrk> no
11:21:01  <KUDr_wrk> PBS is about allowing more trains in one signal block
11:21:17  <KUDr_wrk> if you don't agree, then PBS is not for you
11:22:11  <Noldo> Hackykid's PBS was a bit invasive about it's consept of pbs-block
11:22:15  <Eddi|zuHause> sure... but at stations, trains are supposed to stop, and when they try to start again, they NEED a signal telling them they are allowed to
11:22:56  <Eddi|zuHause> that should not be changed by PBS
11:23:13  <KUDr_wrk> Eddi|zuHause: why it must be explicit signal?
11:23:24  <Noldo> 2-way station need a presignal block on the both sides
11:23:58  * SmileyG cheers the fact hes making money
11:24:12  <Noldo> the reason why pbs didn't work for 2-way station was that it didn't provide the pre-signaling
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11:25:13  * SmileyG wonders why auto renew is failing when he has enough money
11:26:09  <KUDr_wrk> Eddi|zuHause: what about telling train in the order list if they should reverse in this station or not?
11:26:19  <Noldo> also pbs should have explicit enter and exit signals
11:26:25  <Noldo> KUDr_wrk: lame
11:26:33  <Eddi|zuHause> that is a good idea ;)
11:26:33  <KUDr_wrk> no
11:27:01  <peter1138> why not have controls to manually move trains ;p
11:27:05  <KUDr_wrk> Eddi|zuHause: and this can work also with disabled implicit reversing
11:27:57  <KUDr_wrk> peter1138: i am trying to find solution for such corner case as existence of Eddi|zuHause (who uses only pass-thru stations)
11:28:22  <Noldo> KUDr_wrk: what is the real problem?
11:28:52  <KUDr_wrk> that train can reverse randomly at the station
11:29:02  <KUDr_wrk> out of controll
11:29:17  <Noldo> what makes it reverse randomly?
11:29:26  <KUDr_wrk> and if you disable it
11:29:28  <SmileyG> omg 17% reliable :(
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11:29:41  <KUDr_wrk> then Eddi|zuHause cant do what he likes
11:30:23  <Noldo> we are talking about a 2-way station right?
11:30:28  <KUDr_wrk> yes
11:30:31  <KUDr_wrk> i think so
11:30:58  <Noldo> what is it that Eddi|zuHause wants?
11:31:12  <Eddi|zuHause> yes... a 2-way-station
11:31:20  <KUDr_wrk> well working 2-way stations i guess
11:31:25  <Eddi|zuHause> and a train that should end at that station and go backwards
11:31:41  <KUDr_wrk> yes
11:31:43  * SmileyG kicks auto renew
11:31:48  <KUDr_wrk> and another one not reversing
11:32:06  <Eddi|zuHause> but as long as red 2-way-signals are treated as dead ends, this reversing thing is totally random
11:32:17  <KUDr_wrk> yes, i agree
11:32:27  <KUDr_wrk> but it is very usefull feature
11:32:41  <KUDr_wrk> only the problem i see here in 2 way stations
11:32:56  <SmileyG> hum
11:32:56  <KUDr_wrk> so one solution is to revert it back
11:33:05  <SmileyG> why is atrain thats only 1yr old got a realibity of 1%?
11:33:07  <KUDr_wrk> or another one must be found
11:33:31  <SmileyG> now its 0% :D
11:33:37  <Eddi|zuHause> SmileyG: because it does not visit a depot?
11:33:38  <Noldo> KUDr_wrk: what is usefull about red 2-way-signals as dead ends?
11:33:49  <SmileyG> does that fix the realibity eddi?
11:33:56  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
11:33:58  <SmileyG> :o
11:34:06  <black_Nightmare> ughh road crossing still doesn't work...hrm....maybe I'll post to the forum
11:34:15  <Eddi|zuHause> visiting a depot sets it to maximum reliability
11:34:22  <Eddi|zuHause> of the vehicle type
11:34:27  <SmileyG> yeah
11:34:36  <SmileyG> other thing is my auto replace/renew always fails
11:34:38  <Eddi|zuHause> which may be very low for experimental or outdated vehicles
11:34:39  <SmileyG> due to money limit?
11:34:39  <black_Nightmare> btw..anyone ever heard of one-way road tiles here?
11:34:57  <SmileyG> but i've got enough money :/
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11:35:34  <KUDr_wrk> Noldo: i.e. waiting loops
11:36:03  <KUDr_wrk> or that you can specify that this is choice and this is backup route
11:36:13  <KUDr_wrk> like it TTD
11:36:17  <KUDr_wrk> or TTDP
11:36:21  <XeryusTC> SmileyG: there is a option in the patch menu (under vehicles iirc) that sets the minimum amount of cash needed to replace a vehicle
11:36:32  <SmileyG> oh i see
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11:37:41  <SmileyG> heh needed 100k for autorenew to work :o
11:38:10  <KUDr_wrk> Eddi|zuHause: using the order to specify whether to reverse or not is the easiest solution i guess
11:38:35  <Eddi|zuHause> KUDr: like i said before: a solution could be to introduce a "platform" signal type (like pre-, exit-, combo-), behaving like an exit signal, but with decent penalties
11:39:32  <KUDr_wrk> Eddi|zuHause: but nobody wants such useless signals except you
11:39:42  <Eddi|zuHause> fine ;)
11:39:43  <black_Nightmare> ..hrm bridges don't even work too
11:39:50  <Eddi|zuHause> then don't ;)
11:39:56  <black_Nightmare> *me wonders if there's just something wrong with the nightly build code*
11:40:03  <peter1138> bridges do work, heh
11:40:06  <KUDr_wrk> switching by CTRL is now complex enough
11:40:41  <KUDr_wrk> or we can make a rule: when leaving station - no dead ends
11:40:43  <Eddi|zuHause> i agree... the need of CTRL-switching needs to be reduced
11:40:53  <black_Nightmare> peter..well this is the one I'm trying to get loaded .. me just wondering if it was only meant for ttdpatch rather than openttd?
11:41:15  <black_Nightmare> (downloaded the window version and have it in newgrf list
11:41:22  <peter1138> all newgrfs are meant for ttdp...
11:41:32  <peter1138> have you read the documentation for that one?
11:41:57  <KUDr_wrk> Eddi|zuHause: would it be sufficient? (make a rule: when leaving station - no dead ends)
11:42:05  <Noldo> What is Celestars signal.pdf about?
11:42:09  <Eddi|zuHause> that could work
11:42:24  <KUDr_wrk> i am not sure - you will use it
11:42:33  <KUDr_wrk> i can try to add it into YAPF
11:42:38  <Eddi|zuHause> Noldo: a planned rewrite of the signal system
11:42:46  <KUDr_wrk> but you must tell me if it works fine
11:43:32  <black_Nightmare> peter...well the pdf mentions newgrfw.cfg but that doesn't seem to be in the openttd folder :p
11:43:51  <black_Nightmare> come the bridge/roadcrossing doesn't work but alternative rail fences does?  kinda strange heh
11:43:51  <KUDr_wrk> can the rule be: if it is two-way signal and previous tile was station tile then don't apply the dead end?
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11:44:03  <Ihmemies> sigh
11:44:10  <Eddi|zuHause> black_Nightmare: everything that refers to newgrf.cfg you need to adapt to the [newgrf] section of openttd.cfg
11:44:13  <Ihmemies> I need to replace all rails with monorail :(
11:44:35  <Darkvater> black_Nightmare: read the readme especially the part about parameters
11:44:35  <black_Nightmare> oh ... sorry eddi..
11:44:37  <Ihmemies> How i'm supposed to replace my trains? rail is easy with that replace tool..
11:44:39  <Darkvater> or just read the WHOLE thing
11:45:29  <KUDr_wrk> Eddi|zuHause: can the rule be: if it is two-way signal and previous tile was station tile then don't apply the dead end?
11:45:55  <Eddi|zuHause> KUDr: no, because often you have road crossings in between
11:46:25  <Eddi|zuHause> rather make a special case if train is stopped at station and tries to start
11:46:40  <Eddi|zuHause> (and wants to decide if reverse or not)
11:46:52  <Eddi|zuHause> i imagine that to be much cleaner
11:46:54  <black_Nightmare> hm....I look at the pdf and the openttd text file....I can understand the parameters being there in pdf but .. how do they translate to the openttd file? lol ... *goes to look on the forum for any old answers to that*
11:46:56  <Darkvater> just turn off the setting
11:47:22  <Darkvater> black_Nightmare: <file> = <param1>,<param2>,.....<paramn>
11:47:23  <Eddi|zuHause> i wish people would stop telling me that ;)
11:47:28  <Darkvater> pretty straightforward imho
11:47:29  <black_Nightmare> thats how
11:47:30  <black_Nightmare> one second
11:47:37  <KUDr_wrk> Eddi|zuHause: ok, i will try my best. Will you be here to test it?
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11:48:14  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, probably
11:50:49  <black_Nightmare> hehe ok thanks alot darkvater..I see custom bridges now
11:50:59  <black_Nightmare> the original tube bridges aren't replaced..but thats ok with me :p
11:51:11  <black_Nightmare> the alternative wood bridges seem nice ;)
11:51:13  <Darkvater> I think if you truly want this customized and order flag is the best thing to do
11:51:22  <Darkvater> black_Nightmare: that is because ottd has 2 extra tubulars to ttdp
11:51:33  <black_Nightmare> true...but these I don't mind so they can stay
11:51:35  <Darkvater> this = reverse/not reverse at station
11:51:39  <black_Nightmare> I just didn't like some of the early original bridges
11:51:52  <black_Nightmare> (the wood one just seem too thick to be wood)
11:52:56  <black_Nightmare> hm now what grf to try add next :-D
11:53:44  <Darkvater> dbstexl?
11:54:54  <peter1138> with parameters :D
11:55:17  <peter1138> (to stop its level crossing overwriting combroadw's, heh)
11:55:25  <Darkvater> :D
11:55:38  <Darkvater> although you can also try spainsetw.grf Looks truly nice
11:55:47  <peter1138> mm, i've not tried that yet
11:55:49  <black_Nightmare> nah I've tried dbset xl for a while..not sure I like it anyway
11:55:50  <Darkvater> most probably not really playable but makes for good eyecandy
11:55:57  <Darkvater> or alpinew.grf
11:56:04  <black_Nightmare> but I know what I may want...just have to download it yet..the dutchset that is :p
11:56:12  <black_Nightmare> lot of interests for me
11:56:13  <Prof_Frink> ukrs!
11:56:31  <black_Nightmare> prof..I already have ukrs in another openttd folder (for brianetta's server)
11:56:42  <Darkvater> peter1138: from first looks spainset seems nicely supported. Only some refit things don't fit. You can't refit in ttdp, but you can in ottd. Only some though, others work correctly
11:56:52  <Darkvater> black_Nightmare: I didn't think there was a release yet of the dutchset
11:56:55  <black_Nightmare> what I'm trying do now is I made another openttd folder (making that 3 different one I have..first one is the original untouched 0.4.7) ;)
11:57:10  <black_Nightmare> darkvater...there is a pre-release, not all vehicles are done but there's still many
11:57:21  <black_Nightmare> (hence pre- I guess)
11:57:38  <Darkvater> hmm, must've missed it
11:57:51  <Darkvater> dutch catenary looks nice as well
11:58:22  <black_Nightmare> yeah I'm downloading the dutch trainset + catenary + signals as we speak :p
11:58:30  <black_Nightmare> going try one grf at a time to be sure I can get it to work :)
11:58:56  <Darkvater> it is a bummer though that the only set for the tropic climate is the tropicset which is gratly outdated
11:59:38  <Prof_Frink> Darkvater: usset?
12:00:59  <peter1138> dutch catenary needs a tweak to ottd -- our wires are drawn too low
12:01:27  <Eddi|zuHause> blame Celestar ;)
12:01:28  <black_Nightmare> heh ok dutch signals work...
12:01:36  <black_Nightmare> now to unzip the trainset
12:02:05  <Darkvater> Prof_Frink: isn't it arctic?
12:02:27  <Prof_Frink> any of the three climates.
12:02:46  <Prof_Frink> (toyland is not a climate)
12:03:16  <peter1138> hmm, servicing interval of 0 days is... awkward
12:04:08  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: btw, i noticed that the loading sprites for the late DBSetXL goods wagons do not work anymore (i believe i have seen them working before)
12:04:47  <black_Nightmare> hmmm....
12:06:02  <black_Nightmare> darkvater.. the dutch trainset pre-release doesn't seem to load but readme says nothing of any parameters ... and website doesn't offer anything else ... maybe its not useable in openttd yet?
12:06:13  <black_Nightmare> at least the signals worked
12:06:20  <black_Nightmare> going try the catenary now brb
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12:09:20  <black_Nightmare> cantenary works :-D
12:09:21  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause: which ones? any?
12:09:41  <Eddi|zuHause> the slide tarpolin (?) one
12:09:50  <Eddi|zuHause> at least
12:10:38  <Eddi|zuHause> (that was in the yapf branch)
12:11:01  <peter1138> hmm
12:11:06  <peter1138> some do, some don't. how odd.
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12:11:35  <XeryusTC> black_Nightmare: do the dutch catenary really work?
12:12:42  <Eddi|zuHause> recently there was a commit about allowing to load custom catenary graphics
12:13:03  <Eddi|zuHause> (other than overwriting elrailsw.grf)
12:13:12  <XeryusTC> :)
12:14:36  <black_Nightmare> second...
12:15:21  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause: found it
12:15:57  <black_Nightmare> xeryus...yes it does work
12:16:15  <XeryusTC> nice :D
12:16:15  <black_Nightmare> have additional elec engines in depot list when I use the dutch cantenary tracks
12:16:54  <black_Nightmare> eddi..whast your nick on the if you have one?  just wondering
12:17:03  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't
12:17:05  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4708 /trunk/newgrf_engine.c: - NewGRF: fix selection of number of loaded and loading states.
12:17:44  <black_Nightmare> oh ok
12:17:56  <Eddi|zuHause> fine... now someone sync the yapf branch ;)
12:17:57  <black_Nightmare> lol this humm I should try that too :p
12:18:13  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause: it's a single character ;)
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12:24:40  <black_Nightmare> does openttd support long vehicles or thats still something not patched in?
12:24:53  <black_Nightmare> (road I meant sorry)
12:25:00  <peter1138> long vehicles is a hack anyway
12:25:10  <peter1138> george's rvs work
12:25:13  <peter1138> but they look stupid
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12:26:11  <Darkvater> Prof_Frink: ah, didn't know. Better trains then tropicsetw.grf? Might switch my game to it then
12:26:46  <black_Nightmare> ty anyhow...guess I wouldn't bother with these sets for now
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12:27:49  <Celestar> back
12:28:04  * Celestar wonders what to code next.
12:28:23  <hylje> full rewrite of ottd ?
12:28:25  <Darkvater> hehe
12:28:37  <Celestar> hylje: well, done quite a bit in that direction already :P
12:28:41  <Eddi|zuHause> a fix for the catenary height ;)
12:28:58  <hylje> decoration for maps
12:29:00  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: ?
12:29:15  * Celestar goes testing xbridge
12:29:16  <Eddi|zuHause> our catenary is lower than the patch one's
12:29:37  <Eddi|zuHause> that looks a little ugly with the dutch catenary
12:29:38  <Celestar> oh .
12:29:48  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: there's not much to fix. it's ONE enum
12:30:11  <Celestar> damnit I still have a stuck signal :S
12:31:03  <Celestar> suspension bridges look ugly
12:31:09  <Celestar> suspension length is waaayy to short
12:31:57  <Eddi|zuHause> i agree
12:32:11  <Eddi|zuHause> and the newbridges do not really fix that
12:32:15  <Celestar> nope
12:32:43  <black_Nightmare> anyway...sorry to post link again but..anyone have any idea about this? -- likewise I don't see any suggested parameters in sight but it wouldn't load  [*shuts up now* hehe]
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12:33:24  <black_Nightmare> hey richk :p
12:33:33  <RichK67> hi
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12:34:30  <black_Nightmare> richk..sorry if I seem like an idiot but is there a link to your airports? (either forum thread or download)
12:34:37  <black_Nightmare> or they're still under work?
12:34:54  <Darkvater> black_Nightmare: perhaps you are in the wrong climate? Run openttd with grf debugging options like -d grf=10 perhaps you might spot something
12:34:58  <Darkvater> do NOT paste it
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12:35:09  <peter1138> Celestar: heh, my new bridge stuff can fix that ;)
12:35:14  <Celestar> Darkvater: what about including RichK67's airports?
12:35:19  <Celestar> peter1138: hopefully.
12:35:37  <RichK67> try this link -
12:35:58  <Darkvater> Celestar: possible, although the lack of additional graphics make it a bit less appealing
12:36:22  <peter1138> newairports!
12:36:27  <peter1138> via newgrf
12:36:29  <Celestar> Darkvater: yeah, but we should take one step after another.
12:36:30  <peter1138> hmm
12:36:30  <RichK67> if you ever need to find a patch, check out
12:36:30  <peter1138> perhaps
12:36:41  <Born_Acorn> peter1138! newstations!
12:36:45  <peter1138> RichK67: cool
12:37:17  <peter1138> Born_Acorn: new graphic!
12:37:19  <peter1138> s
12:37:33  <black_Nightmare> never mind that
12:37:36  <RichK67> peter: if you want to write the newgrf translator for the schema Dalestan designed, i will write the newgrf files for all the airports in basic, and my patch :)
12:37:40  <Born_Acorn> The airport building gui should be redesigned for all those new airports.
12:37:43  <peter1138> RichK67: you can remove "Centred X"
12:37:50  <black_Nightmare> something else replaced the original road crossing
12:38:00  <Celestar> there's a bunch of stuff that can be removed (=
12:38:02  <black_Nightmare> guess I wouldn't need to bother with uklcw.grf road crossing
12:38:05  <Darkvater> Celestar: yeah, was just saying. perhaps 0.5.0 material? :)
12:38:08  <RichK67> ah - the patch list - ive not sorted it yet into "already in trunk, etc"
12:38:32  <Celestar> Darkvater: well, first put the airports in, then worry about other stuff:
12:38:33  <Darkvater> I am not against including it...just you know some tiles have fences on them INSIDE the airport
12:38:48  <Darkvater> but I'll say 0.4.8 first; highest prio
12:38:51  <Celestar> Darkvater: not the version I have seen?
12:39:03  <Celestar> Darkvater: I'm just busy testing multistop stuff
12:39:29  <Born_Acorn> We have transparent TTDPatch style station signs!
12:40:08  <Darkvater> didn't we for yars?
12:40:11  <Darkvater> years even
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12:40:26  <Darkvater> Celestar: hmm, must've been some older version then
12:41:22  <black_Nightmare> richk..ty for the link...looking now
12:41:35  <Born_Acorn> Yes, years! So why its a separate patch on RichK67's list is beyond me.
12:42:07  <Born_Acorn> It must have been a patch from Before Time began.
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12:43:44  <black_Nightmare> hmm....I should try richk's airports...brb :p
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12:45:40  <Celestar> Darkvater: will we release 0.4.8 right away or will there be some RC/beta versions?
12:47:01  <Darkvater> that is what I was wondering about
12:47:30  <Darkvater> there are some bugs on to get fixed which will need testing
12:47:47  <Darkvater> donnu if we need a RC though.
12:48:19  <Hendikins> I'd personally RC it, and if the RC is good, make it final. That's what we do with Firefox.
12:48:28  <Celestar> yeah that's normal
12:48:37  <Celestar> rats
12:48:39  <Celestar> desyncs
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12:49:45  <black_Nightmare> there anyhow?
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12:50:23  <RichK67_> yeah sort of... dont know how long ill last
12:51:29  <black_Nightmare> ok because not to sound like an idiot but do I just put the .patch file in the data folder and leave it there too or I have to do something with it?
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12:51:59  <RichK67_> you put the .grf in the data folder
12:52:12  <RichK67_> you apply the patch to the source code, and recompile
12:53:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> alternatively, you can download the binary of the mini_IN
12:53:21  <black_Nightmare> oh...never mind the patch then..not sure I could figure that out
12:53:22  <RichK67_> celestar: can you give me a todo list for New Airports?
12:53:26  <black_Nightmare> I'll just stick to the grf file
12:53:34  <RichK67_> its not a newgrf
12:53:50  <black_Nightmare> yeah I noticed that warning..ty still
12:53:55  <Celestar> RichK67_: I'll check that later today.
12:54:05  <RichK67_> ty
12:54:31  <RichK67_> most TGP changes in; i just need your (all devs) opinions on how / where to integrate the GUI
12:55:29  *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas
12:55:48  <black_Nightmare> hmm airports.grf is in data folder but no show...heh never mind that -- I never used planes that much sometimes anyhow
12:55:59  <black_Nightmare> hm wait
12:56:08  <Darkvater> RichK67_: firstly the GUI needs screenshots on how it looks. The airport building gui needs work, most likely a dropdown box of available types
12:56:30  <black_Nightmare> darkvater....yeah a dropdown might make sense seeing there's more than five types in total now
12:56:43  <black_Nightmare> darkvater..I was thinking...
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12:57:09  <Darkvater> hi Belugas
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12:57:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> hey... something occured to me... we have the button to repay loan, and it is disabled when you don't have money
12:57:33  <black_Nightmare> click on the menu airport button... that puts the airport toolbar down ... click on airport button .. that drops down a list of the possible airports to use?  [no dialogs needed]
12:57:35  <RichK67_> DV: check out for the current TGP front end... we need to decide if integrating it into the Intro GUI, how it should look, what does it need, etc.
12:57:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> how about disabling the "take loan" button when you are at max. loan?
12:57:54  <RichK67_> airpo
12:57:58  <RichK67_> oops
12:58:12  <black_Nightmare> eddi...good thought..I'll like that :p
12:58:27  <RichK67_> suggested Airport GUI: 3 dropdowns; <small airports>  <large airports>  <heliports>
12:58:41  <peter1138> 3?
12:58:43  <peter1138> hmm
12:58:53  <peter1138> that's asking for trouble
12:59:11  <RichK67_> i think one, although simple, may end up looking ugly
12:59:55  <Celestar> RichK67_: you there?
12:59:58  <RichK67_> yup
13:00:00  <Celestar> ok
13:00:07  <peter1138> <-- but dv doesn't like that look
13:00:14  <Darkvater> hmm airports/heliports dropdowns are doable I think
13:00:40  <Celestar> RichK67_: +~..~...~...if ((st->airport_type != AT_HELIDEPOT) && (st->airport_type != AT_HELISTATION)) {
13:00:43  <Celestar> +~..~...~...~...if (GetAirport(st->airport_type)->terminals != NULL)
13:00:47  <RichK67_> does ask the question tho.... which one am i adding?
13:00:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> about the airport guy... how about 3 buttons small/large/heli, and a dropdownlist changing depending on button setting?
13:01:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> *gui
13:01:03  <Celestar> put in one "if" and drop exceeding "()"
13:01:39  <Celestar> ((st2->airport_type == AT_HELIDEPOT) || (st2->airport_type == AT_HELISTATION)))
13:01:41  <Celestar> too many "()"
13:02:03  <peter1138> excessive
13:02:07  <RichK67_> ah, right, you prefer strict syntax to clarity ;)
13:02:09  <Darkvater> RichK67_: the random seed input box definitely needs to look differently
13:02:13  <hylje> (there) is never ((too) many) (())s
13:02:17  <Celestar> (((st->airport_type == AT_SMALL) | (st->airport_type == AT_COMMUTER)) <= possible wrong code?
13:02:37  <peter1138> (st2->airport_type == AT_HELIDEPOT || st2->airport_type == AT_HELISTATION)
13:02:50  <Celestar> (&Airport->terminals == 0 <= always compare pointers to "NULL" not to 0
13:03:10  <RichK67_> possible wrong code?  nope... Commuter is a small airport, and has small airport restrictions, crash percentages, etc
13:03:26  <Celestar> but why "|" and not "||" ?
13:03:53  <RichK67_> always compare pointers to "NULL" not to 0    ah the error is the & , not the ==0
13:04:14  <RichK67_> oh yeah... good one
13:04:14  <Celestar> oh (=
13:04:18  <Celestar> erm ..
13:04:25  <Celestar> the airports come way too late in the game (=
13:04:42  <black_Nightmare> brb
13:04:44  <RichK67_> dates can be changed... what does Master desire?
13:04:54  <Celestar> don't worry. part of "balancing"
13:05:09  <Celestar> AT_COMMUTER = 5, align the "=", like above (in airport.h)
13:05:29  <RichK67_> yup, ill do a general code tidy
13:05:32  <peter1138> Celestar: patchman's awake
13:05:41  <RichK67_> strip spaces etc,
13:06:21  <RichK67_> DV: how so? how/where would you like it?
13:06:36  <Celestar> _airport_sections_intercontinental <= please align ..
13:06:38  <Celestar> oh ok
13:07:25  <Celestar> reset looks good.
13:07:36  <Celestar> Darkvater: It'd be great if you could read through the newairports as well?
13:07:43  <Celestar> (apart from the district ones :P)
13:07:50  <RichK67_> :P
13:08:30  <Celestar> Darkvater: multistop stuff will not work without savegame revision bump, unless we do VERY severe hacking ...
13:09:40  <black_Nightmare> back
13:09:55  <Celestar> and I don't want that kind of hacking in a release.
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13:12:59  <Darkvater> RichK67_: a proper textbox :)
13:13:04  <Darkvater> Celestar: ok, then we drop it
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13:13:20  <Darkvater> as well as st->last_vehicle which can perhaps get a hack-fix
13:13:47  <black_Nightmare> I love these new ships
13:13:55  <Celestar> Darkvater: IsValidVehicle or something .
13:14:10  <RichK67_> DV: only problem being i have no idea how to code a proper textbox, as i dont know of any examples
13:14:11  <black_Nightmare> 54km/h 500 passenger liner etc
13:14:36  <Darkvater> RichK67_: the network-window :)
13:14:37  <black_Nightmare> hm six grf's loaded now....can there be more..hmmmm :p
13:14:45  <Darkvater> RichK67_: but ok it's minor, can be fixed by anyone
13:15:02  <Darkvater> I'll have a lookie how other games did a terrain generator window
13:15:08  <Darkvater> possibly simutrans as well
13:15:19  <Darkvater> something just doesn't look quite 100% in that window, donnu why
13:15:27  <Darkvater> Celestar: yeah, ap tonite
13:16:27  <black_Nightmare> does openttd allow adding more industries/loads to it other than the original? (eg a new brewery)
13:16:37  <peter1138> not yet
13:16:44  <Celestar> Darkvater: ap?
13:16:48  <black_Nightmare> no? hmm thanks
13:16:53  <RichK67_> DV: ty - will try to reuse it then
13:17:11  <black_Nightmare> guess I'll skip the then
13:17:47  <RichK67_> Celestar: DV: should the TGP options be integrated onto front screen?? or should we continue to have the options pop up when you select "New random map" from the New Game list?
13:18:33  <Darkvater> airport
13:19:09  <Darkvater> RichK67_: since there are a lot of options now, it's better in a seperate window as you have it
13:19:19  * Darkvater ponders ripping out the whole 'difficulty' settings window
13:19:26  * peter1138 starves
13:19:34  <Darkvater> since it's only double and means a lot of extra work
13:19:48  <Darkvater> RichK67_: oh and add a box for TGP/old
13:19:53  * Darkvater feeds peter1138
13:20:19  <black_Nightmare> I take that this is only for ttdpatch as well then?
13:21:00  <peter1138> yup
13:21:12  <RichK67_> Celestar: DV: have updated airports patch with comments as you made them... ready for reinspection ;)
13:21:27  <black_Nightmare> thanks
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13:22:02  <RichK67_> DV: use TGP is currently in Config Patches... do you want it on the dialog?
13:22:05  <black_Nightmare> at least I got new ships...replaced rail fence.. have dutch catenary...replacement beach graphics...and alternative bridge graphics :-D
13:22:09  <black_Nightmare> heh having fun :p
13:23:26  <Celestar> RichK67_: anything out of the Config Patches is good :P
13:23:31  <Darkvater> amen
13:23:42  <Darkvater> do you know how confusing 'config patches' is?
13:23:50  <Darkvater> I mean even the _patches struct is confusing
13:24:00  <RichK67_> lol - shall i go whole hog then, and move snow line to the screen too?
13:24:02  <Darkvater> it IS an hommage to TTDP but otherwise totally wrong
13:24:04  <Darkvater> yes!
13:24:10  <Darkvater> and start date!
13:24:14  <RichK67_> sure
13:24:23  <Darkvater> hmm what else do we have there we can rip out
13:24:31  <RichK67_> and industry & town settings from difficulty
13:25:06  <RichK67_> hmmm... quite a redesign, but it will look tons better
13:25:21  <peter1138> leave the difficulty settings, i'd say
13:25:43  <RichK67_> how about.... shock, horror... renaming Config Patches to Advanced Options
13:25:50  <Darkvater> sacrilige!
13:26:12  <Darkvater> peter1138: it is very confusing to set up your new game in 2 places
13:26:36  <RichK67_> peter: it would be duplicate location; it just means you have it available upfront when you do generation, rather than having to fish in 3/4 menus
13:26:36  <Darkvater> although with it ripped apart, in 2 places it will be a bit hard to set the game difficulty with 1 button
13:27:30  <RichK67_> DV: the TGP screen would just echo the current selection, and if you changed it on the TGP screen, it would update the master
13:27:43  <Darkvater> see now that IS confusing
13:28:16  <black_Nightmare> anyone tried any of Wile E. Coyote's sets? :p
13:28:17  <RichK67_> to me town & industry quantities are map functions
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13:28:30  <RichK67_> not difficulty
13:29:32  <RichK67_> i will set up TGP to access them; whether that is death knell to the current difficulties settings is an SEP - someone else's problem ;)
13:29:37  <Darkvater> it is also difficulty
13:29:49  <Darkvater> less towns/industries: harder way to make a profit
13:30:33  <hylje> aww, i forgot how fun is it to wait for 2kx2k map to generate
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13:30:41  <black_Nightmare> hylje :p
13:30:50  <Darkvater> hylje: RichK67_ is going to take away that fun :(
13:31:20  <hylje> :<
13:31:22  <hylje> why
13:31:53  <black_Nightmare> hmm...... *ponders* ...
13:32:11  <black_Nightmare> should I put replace maglev or monorail with narrrowgauge rails...hmm which one to
13:32:28  <RichK67_> hmm... well TGP can generate the map for 2048x2048 in 35 secs on my PC, but it then takes 4 mins to populate with industries, etc
13:32:57  <black_Nightmare> guess I'll replace monorail -- never found much of it myself
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13:35:16  <hylje> is there any gameplay difference between rail types apart from speed ?
13:37:23  <Celestar> not yet
13:37:46  <black_Nightmare> I dunno if I like the idea of monorails at anything except slow speed so hehe I've barely touched them in the game myself when I can ^_^
13:38:02  <Darkvater> RichK67_: ah...industry placement is sub-optimal :)
13:38:07  <black_Nightmare> hylje..I think that maglev would be very quiet compared to anything on rail (no rail clanking/etc) :-)
13:42:26  <black_Nightmare> planes now...damn...:p
13:42:43  <peter1138> the planeset is nice
13:42:55  <black_Nightmare> I'm using this :-)
13:43:14  <black_Nightmare> now I got eight newgrf's ... hrm.. I still need to add NG tracks .. etc
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13:47:25  <black_Nightmare> hmm..just one question..
13:47:33  <Born_Acorn> 42.
13:47:43  <black_Nightmare> I added 'ngrails.grf = 2' to the openttd file but
13:47:49  <black_Nightmare> it still loads the standard monorail tracks
13:47:52  <black_Nightmare> not the NG rails
13:48:00  <black_Nightmare> me wonder if this readme just wasn't made for openttd
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13:49:29  <Born_Acorn> It probably wasn't. No grf readmes are. GRF makers make it work with the Patch.
13:50:25  <black_Nightmare> yeah well...
13:50:46  <black_Nightmare> the readme says to add 1 or 2 or 4 at end of ngrails.grf because its to specify which type of track it replaces
13:50:53  <black_Nightmare> '2' to replace monorail with it
13:51:42  <Darkvater> no
13:51:48  <Darkvater> I mean yes
13:51:52  <Darkvater> but no
13:52:00  <Darkvater> cause we have elrails and that screws up their counting
13:52:12  <black_Nightmare> heh .. hmmm
13:52:14  <Darkvater> so 4 might be monorail?
13:52:24  <Celestar> hmpf.
13:52:25  <black_Nightmare> I was thinking the same..brb I'm going try 3 and 4
13:52:27  <Darkvater> donnu if that works
13:52:29  <Celestar> bridges are HIGH
13:52:33  <Darkvater> black_Nightmare: it's a bitmask
13:52:38  <Born_Acorn> Then bulldoze em!
13:52:58  * Darkvater hopes we are not going to get locomotion-style gamepay
13:53:00  <Darkvater> play
13:53:55  <black_Nightmare> o0o.... '4' is actually maglev
13:54:00  <black_Nightmare> so where is monorail anyhow? :p
13:54:15  <black_Nightmare> '3' did not seem to do anything
13:54:17  <peter1138> 1 = rail, 2 = monorail 4 = maglev, in that case
13:54:21  <Born_Acorn> Darkvater, what do you mean? Are you getting rid of dragging? :p
13:54:32  <black_Nightmare> peter... '2' is not monorail
13:54:36  <black_Nightmare> it didn't even replace it at all
13:54:41  <black_Nightmare> but '4' is correct tho
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13:54:52  <black_Nightmare> wonder what the current openttd number for monorail is..hrm
13:54:54  <Darkvater> Born_Acorn: talking baout coolbridges
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13:55:17  <peter1138> i need to code Born_Acorn's bridges!
13:55:23  <Born_Acorn> coolbridges? Are there plans?
13:55:26  <Born_Acorn> I have bridges?
13:55:29  <Darkvater> noooooo
13:55:29  <peter1138> bridge
13:55:37  <peter1138> viaduct
13:55:38  <peter1138> thing
13:55:41  <peter1138> as a test
13:55:41  <peter1138> heh
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13:55:53  <Born_Acorn> Ah yes, with the bricked up portals
13:56:07  <Born_Acorn> artificial embankments.
13:56:08  <peter1138>,%2031st%20Oct%202030.png
13:56:09  <peter1138> that one
13:56:44  <Born_Acorn> Thats not mine
13:56:45  <Born_Acorn>
13:56:48  <Born_Acorn> Thats mine
13:56:55  <Born_Acorn> Taller!
13:57:00  <peter1138> it's based on it
13:57:02  <peter1138> yes, too tall
13:57:08  <peter1138> bridges aren't that tall
13:57:22  <Born_Acorn> ah.
13:57:42  <Celestar> Born_Acorn: coolbridges?
13:58:00  <black_Nightmare> someone mind seeing what the actual number for monorail is?? :p
13:58:07  <black_Nightmare> I want keep the maglev but I want my NG tracks lol
13:58:11  <black_Nightmare> hehe
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13:59:22  <Celestar> ok.
13:59:27  <Celestar> I'm off a tiny bit
13:59:28  <black_Nightmare> bah never mind got go for some time now
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13:59:33  <Born_Acorn> I don't no, Darkvater mentioned it and then went "noooooo"
13:59:42  <Born_Acorn> *know
13:59:49  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: did you read through the new signalling thingy?
14:00:00  <KUDr_wrk> not fully
14:00:02  <Celestar> ok
14:00:05  <Celestar> no worries.
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14:02:12  <Born_Acorn> peter1138, you should code this instead! :p
14:04:53  <peter1138> no
14:05:11  <peter1138> far too much effort
14:05:22  <Born_Acorn> Yes, I was only joking.
14:05:31  <peter1138> oh
14:05:37  * peter1138 rms his diff
14:06:05  <Born_Acorn> But Im not joking about
14:06:07  <Born_Acorn> peter1138! newstations!
14:06:52  <peter1138> i deleted that too
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14:07:39  <Born_Acorn> nevar!
14:08:22  *** dp__ [] has joined #openttd
14:10:12  <Darkvater> Born_Acorn: don't worry it seems to be quite recurring on peter1138's pc to rm his diff
14:10:22  * Darkvater suspects peter1138 has linked rm to some other command
14:10:45  <DaleStan> Unfortunately, it's not svn ci
14:12:19  <Darkvater> hehe
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14:15:32  <|MeusH|> hey
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14:19:38  <XeryusTC> i hate myself, i accidentelly deleted a savegame with the biggest network i ever build (i guess) and now i cant recover it because there has other data been written over it :(
14:19:51  <Trippledence> They cost not lots
14:19:55  <Noldo> *snif*
14:20:04  <Noldo> that is what backups are for
14:20:13  <Ihmemies> aircrafts are obviouzly the "way" to make phat money in ttd :D
14:20:34  <Ihmemies> one guy has 13 aircrafts and he makes £2000000 a year
14:20:51  <Ihmemies> company value £104 million.. in 50 years :P
14:21:13  <Born_Acorn> Trippledence likes spines in brines.
14:21:21  <Trippledence> Yay!
14:21:40  <XeryusTC> Noldo: that are what recovery programs are for, exept if it was saved on the partition where most of the data is written to
14:21:46  <Born_Acorn> They are so cheap, I can afford to become some sort of serial arsonist.
14:21:55  <Born_Acorn> *referring to high fuel prices
14:22:24  <Noldo> XeryusTC: no, recovery programs are a desperate measure when everything else has failed
14:22:45  <XeryusTC> not in my case
14:23:03  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4709 /trunk/ (aircraft_gui.c lang/english.txt ship_gui.c): - Codechange: avoid messing around with globals, magic numbers and literal strings by using a string ID, when drawing the small right arrow for the small order lists (aircraft and ships)
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14:37:36  <Ihmemies> long entrances to stations help :D
14:38:33  <Brianetta> Indeed they do.
14:39:37  <Darkvater> peter1138: always check pointers against NULL (eg r4708 in_motion != NULL)
14:39:42  <Ihmemies> now that factory in nightly server produces over 1500 units of goods..
14:40:12  <Ihmemies> I have 7 trains transporting the stuff and it isn't enough :( maybe I need longer trains instead of more trains?
14:40:31  <Brianetta> More trains gives you better station ratings
14:40:59  <Brianetta> Longer trains are really sodding cool, but they can exceed the length of signal blcoks easily
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14:41:22  <Ihmemies> ok..
14:41:34  <Ihmemies> so 14-unit train (fits to 7 square station) is max? :D
14:41:41  <Ihmemies> preferred..
14:41:52  <Matt-W> you wouldn't want longer...
14:45:42  <vondel> i'm using 20-unit trains to move cargo from a transfer-station to the main station
14:45:49  <vondel> 30 unit trains for steel
14:46:08  <CIA-3> KUDr * r4710 /branch/yapf/yapf/ (yapf_common.hpp yapf_costrail.hpp yapf_rail.cpp):
14:46:08  <CIA-3> [YAPF] Fix: when train is deciding whether to reverse or not while leaving
14:46:08  <CIA-3> station, the rule 'treat first red two-way signal as dead end' doesn't apply
14:46:08  <CIA-3> (should make Eddi|zuHause more happy with the YAPF / two-way stations)
14:47:08  <vondel> but using multi-engine trains of course
14:47:09  <Ihmemies> transfer? main? :o
14:47:19  <Ihmemies> why I wouldn't want longer?
14:47:24  <Ihmemies> except that signal block thingy
14:47:57  <Matt-W> because trains longer than stations take a lot longer to load/unload
14:47:59  <vondel> i'll group around 6-8 farms by using small trains to haul livestock/grain to a bigger station in the center of those farms
14:49:01  <Ihmemies> ok
14:49:23  <vondel> the best way to manage things on a large (1024x1024) map, imho
14:49:25  <Ihmemies> that sound handy :D
14:49:35  <Ihmemies> i'm still new to all this :P
14:49:45  <vondel> same thing for oil/wood/iron ore
14:49:58  <Ihmemies> brianetta instructed me yesterday how to use waypoints and build proper stations
14:50:06  <hylje> proper stations.. humbug
14:51:04  <Ihmemies> it was a total mess before :D
14:51:05  <peter1138> Darkvater: hmm, i'll assert() it
14:52:23  <peter1138> Darkvater: if it is NULL, something's gone wrong, heh
14:52:25  <Darkvater> donnu what it's supposed to do :)
14:52:35  <Darkvater> hehe, why the terniary operator then? :)
14:53:16  <peter1138> it's basically a return value
14:53:40  <Darkvater> yes but if it has gone wrong ^^
14:54:02  <vondel> currently i'm running into a problem with the limited capacity of a single waypoint
14:54:21  <peter1138> ...
14:54:34  <Ihmemies> capacity? :
14:54:46  <vondel> number of trains/second it can handle
14:55:46  <vondel> i haven't overlooked a double-waypoint-feature, haven't I?
14:56:19  *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-213-249-232-211.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
14:56:24  <Sacro> afternoon all
14:56:29  <vondel> hello
14:58:55  <CIA-3> KUDr * r4711 /branch/yapf/ (30 files in 5 dirs): Sync with trunk (4626:4710)
15:00:58  <Ihmemies> why I can't replace darwin 600 aircrafts with darwin 600's? :D
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15:01:56  <peter1138> you can't explicitly replace using the autoreplace gui
15:02:04  <peter1138> they will get replaced when they get old, though
15:02:12  <Ihmemies> sigh
15:02:59  <Qball> isn't that a patch option? replace when old?
15:03:48  <Ihmemies> no idea
15:04:01  <Ihmemies> breakdowns are disabled but I still want to replace them :P
15:04:10  <Qball> hmm
15:05:12  <peter1138> ah
15:05:14  <peter1138> hmm
15:05:19  <peter1138> why? :P
15:05:28  <peter1138> hmm, ratings i suppose
15:06:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... /me updatifies yapf
15:07:10  <Sacro> f me :|
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15:08:37  <hylje> pro
15:08:49  <peter1138> Sacro: wha?
15:09:43  <peter1138> it's just a road?
15:09:59  <peter1138> oh
15:10:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> rooofl
15:10:23  <peter1138> too jerky to see what happens
15:12:49  <Belugas> It looks as if there is a god even for complete idiots :(
15:12:52  <Born_Acorn> Its smooth here.
15:13:02  <Naksu> i dont get it
15:13:17  <Born_Acorn> Car goes through traffic at high speed.
15:13:22  <Born_Acorn> Nothing else to get.
15:13:26  <Brianetta> Belugas?
15:13:33  <Naksu> oh
15:13:35  <Naksu> that in the middle
15:14:04  <peter1138> smooth? hmmm
15:14:06  <Belugas> I weas refering to Sacro's link.
15:14:33  <Jpl> aaaaaghhh that video IS jerky
15:14:36  <Belugas> I can't stand those kind of idiots, road criminal...
15:14:51  <Jpl> can't see a thing on it
15:14:58  <peter1138> strange
15:15:00  <peter1138> it's jerky in opera
15:15:05  <peter1138> but smooth (ish) in IE
15:15:16  <hylje> it works fine w/ opera
15:15:20  <Jpl> that video killed my opera
15:15:29  <peter1138> yeah, same for me
15:15:30  <CIA-3> KUDr * r4712 /branch/yapf/graph_gui.c: Fix: random crashes when opening some GUI (i.e. cheats window) on Win32 debug build.
15:15:33  <Brianetta> Oh
15:15:33  <Brianetta> I can't watch utubes at work
15:15:42  <Brianetta> No support for the video format on my Linux box
15:16:22  <peter1138> it's flash
15:16:28  <Sacro> lol, 10 mins later still discussing it
15:18:50  <Sacro> <- sick jokes archive :D
15:21:51  *** Brianetta [] has quit ["Tsch??"]
15:21:51  <CIA-3> KUDr * r4713 /trunk/graph_gui.c: - Fix: random crashes when opening some GUI (i.e. cheats window) on Win32 debug build.
15:22:15  <hylje> again
15:22:22  <peter1138> hmm
15:22:42  <KUDr_wrk> yes as it wasn't yapf problem
15:23:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> reversing looks fine ;)
15:23:20  <KUDr_wrk> Eddi|zuHause2: really? you make me happy
15:23:36  <peter1138> strange reason for a crash, i must say
15:24:24  <KUDr_wrk> peter1138: agree. But MSVC puts one byte into stack (mov) and pops and uses 4 bytes
15:24:54  <Sacro> thats a baaaaaaaad idea
15:24:55  <KUDr_wrk> so instead of zero you receive 0x0124FC00
15:24:58  <KUDr_wrk> or so
15:26:10  <KUDr_wrk> this is why i don't like C
15:26:24  <KUDr_wrk> that it compiles and tells nothing
15:27:26  <Sacro> i wanna play OTTD 0.6.0 :(
15:31:44  <peter1138> KUDr_wrk: ahh, but
15:32:06  <peter1138> KUDr_wrk: because there are different declarations, i take it. hmm.
15:32:13  <peter1138> we shouldn't have those externs. that's nasty.
15:32:18  <KUDr_wrk> yes
15:32:24  <KUDr_wrk> this was the problem
15:33:21  <KUDr_wrk> or compiler should use function signatures
15:33:34  <KUDr_wrk> would be nice to have at least one such compiler
15:33:47  <KUDr_wrk> to check the code on regular basis
15:37:17  <peter1138> icc? heh
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15:42:00  <hylje> what desert towns need to grow
15:42:03  <hylje> food, water
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15:45:19  <Qball> and some love
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15:45:29  <MeusH> hry
15:45:33  <MeusH> hey*
15:46:24  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4714 /trunk/ (newgrf_engine.c newgrf_spritegroup.c newgrf_spritegroup.h): - NewGRF: simplify evaluation of 'real' sprite groups.
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15:56:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> errr... do ufos make nearby trains break down?
15:56:55  <Ihmemies>  is there any fast way to build loads of train lights to railroads?
15:57:07  <hylje> ya, drag
15:57:14  <Ihmemies> but it drags both way signals
15:57:16  <Ihmemies> i need one-way
15:57:22  <hylje> if you drag from a one way
15:57:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> build a one way signal
15:57:28  <hylje> see what happens
15:57:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> and then start dragging from that one
15:57:48  <Ihmemies> oh, now I see
15:57:51  <Ihmemies> thanks :D
15:57:53  <Ihmemies> now that kicks ass
15:57:54  <hylje> anyway.. im currently bringing food water mail passengers to a desert town
15:58:03  <hylje> it doesnt really want to grow
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16:01:03  <hylje> omg i think it wake up
16:02:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> there is some serious flaw in the DBSetXL
16:02:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> there is no livestock wagon running 120km/h
16:03:11  <Jpl> do DB have such car?
16:03:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> all goods wagons up to 100km/h are refittable to livestock
16:03:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> but none above
16:05:32  <hylje> naa, it didnt, just rebuilt two houses
16:05:59  <Qball> cargo > 80km/h is rare
16:06:13  <Qball> only passerger/mail  > 80
16:06:51  <Sacro> cows tend to tip over at high speed
16:06:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> all other cargo is 120km/h in the late stages
16:07:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> only livestock is 100km/h
16:07:08  <Qball> in real life not realy.
16:07:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> in the DBSetXL
16:07:26  <peter1138> you can always turn off wagon speed limits :)
16:07:45  * Sacro imagines a load of cows on a eurostar
16:08:17  <MeusH> Eddi|zuHause2: yes, they do
16:08:20  <MeusH> large ufos
16:08:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> again someone trying to tell me to not use a feature just because it is not well-designed? :p
16:08:32  <peter1138> still, that is the way dbsetxlw is
16:08:39  <peter1138> (rather than a bug in ottd)
16:08:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> i never said it was
16:08:55  <peter1138> i know
16:09:18  <peter1138> and goods can go 160km/h :)_
16:09:29  <Qball> I agree bad designed by the dbsetxlw, 80km/h it the limit
16:10:03  <peter1138> :)
16:13:56  <Sacro> it'd be nice to have combined newgrfs available, like having both ukrs and dbsetlxw in competing network companies
16:14:21  <Qball> that would be c00l
16:14:53  <MeusH> uber awesome and 1337
16:15:12  <Sacro> only 1 newgrf trainset per company and you have to deceide before you start
16:18:21  <Sacro> ideas? problems implementing it?
16:18:28  <MeusH> how do OpenTTD know that a specific .grf is a trainset?
16:18:49  <CIA-3> KUDr * r4715 /trunk/pathfind.c: - Fix: (FS#109) ?6?8?8 Wrongfully bad signal - Don't allow OPF to enter train depot from the back
16:18:52  <Sacro> md5's ?
16:19:02  <MeusH> I assume you imagine a window where you select one from many other trainsets
16:19:04  <KUDr_wrk> shit
16:19:12  <KUDr_wrk> what characters?
16:19:33  <peter1138> KUDr_wrk: don't worry, it's happened before :)
16:19:36  <MeusH> what if there is new version of trainset, without "this is a trainset" flag for OpenTTD?
16:19:49  <peter1138> MeusH: we can tell by the properties it sets
16:20:14  <MeusH> so OpenTTD may check whether it replaces trains or not?
16:20:20  <peter1138> sure
16:20:32  <Sacro> i was gonna say, im sure newgrf will have it in
16:21:28  <glx> KUDr_wrk: your solution is better than mine :)
16:21:38  <KUDr_wrk> heh
16:21:42  <KUDr_wrk> why?
16:21:49  <KUDr_wrk> i must look at yours
16:21:54  <glx> you fix the whole pathfinder
16:22:04  <glx> I only fix signal update code
16:22:07  <KUDr_wrk> aha, i see
16:22:29  <KUDr_wrk> i had the same problem in yapf/road depots
16:22:40  <KUDr_wrk> so i applied the same solution here
16:23:36  <glx> but the idea was the same :)
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16:25:43  <Darkvater> KUDr_wrk: did you fix NPF as well? and NTP?
16:26:05  <glx> NPF was already fixed I think
16:26:19  <KUDr_wrk> this was only problem of OPF used for SetSignals....
16:26:28  <Darkvater> and NTP?
16:26:48  <KUDr_wrk> SetSignalsOnBothDir uses only OPF
16:27:03  <KUDr_wrk> so why do you ask me for NTP?
16:27:38  <peter1138> it's also a problem for vehicle pathfinding
16:27:43  <peter1138> that an tunnels
16:27:47  <peter1138> +d
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16:28:13  <Darkvater> KUDr_wrk: cause I thought it was independent of PF
16:28:33  <KUDr_wrk> aha
16:28:42  <Darkvater> brb, food
16:32:28  <Ihmemies> seems that bridges aren't that good idea :DDD
16:32:46  <Ihmemies> even a slightest delay causes whole thing to slow down massively because of long signal distance
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16:33:49  <MeusH> use shorter bridges instead
16:34:03  <MeusH> or wait for new map array with signals on bridges :p
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16:35:09  <Ihmemies> :o
16:35:11  <Ihmemies> now what's that? :)
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16:35:52  <MeusH> in the (not so) far away future, covered with dark clouds of apathy, signals on the bridges will be built
16:36:06  <Ihmemies> cool :D
16:36:12  <Qball> we expect somewhere around 2060
16:36:20  <Ihmemies> btw.. what i'm supposed to do with these farms with production like 24? or iron ore mines?
16:36:33  <Qball> ignore them
16:36:34  <MeusH> that's a good question
16:36:48  <MeusH> Qball: then my world domination plans would be screwed up
16:36:56  <MeusH> Ihmemies: send one train instead of six
16:37:03  <MeusH> at least that's what I do :)
16:37:08  <Sacro> Ihmemies: rvs
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16:37:18  <MeusH> Ihmemies: keep your rating over 65
16:37:21  <Sacro> Qball: is that in real time, or OpenTTD time?#
16:37:27  <MeusH> but (correct me) under 75 (why?)
16:37:37  <MeusH> Sacro: semi martian time :|
16:40:34  <Sacro> MeusH: ahh, errr, right
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16:47:39  <Sacro> its oh so quiet...
16:49:12  <Bjarni> yeah
16:49:19  <Bjarni> where are people when you need them?
16:49:27  <Bjarni> for instance, where is that gentoo guy?
16:49:38  <Bjarni> the installer fucked up (again)
16:49:38  * hylje hides
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16:50:09  <Sacro> gentoo guy? try #gentoo
16:50:20  <Bjarni> hylje: you know gentoo?
16:50:39  <Bjarni> Sacro: well, after the success in there the last time, I'm not sure I will ever enter that channel again
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16:50:47  <Bjarni> it was like everybody had me on ignore
16:51:16  <hylje> most gentoeers are idle since its so fun watching emerge
16:51:50  <Bjarni> well, I tried to install and this time I got it as far as to creating users, but it failed to create any :(
16:52:02  <Bjarni> I'm not sure why
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16:52:20  <Bjarni> didn't get an error message besides that it failed
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16:52:34  <hylje> i prefer doing it manual tho..
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16:52:56  <Bjarni> ok, how do I do that?
16:53:21  <hylje> i did it all by just rtfm
16:53:46  <hylje> but if you just need to create users
16:54:10  <Bjarni> I think all I need is to create a single user, so I can start it up and login
16:54:24  <hylje> you could try inserting a normal livecd, chroot in, set root passwd
16:54:26  <Qball> gentoo is for the people with to much time.
16:54:36  <Qball> useradd? adduser?
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16:59:24  <LIIT> <hylje> most gentoeers are idle since its so fun watching emerge << lol, so true :-)
16:59:42  <Sacro> Bjarni: dont you at least have root?
17:00:01  <Hackykid> KUDr: you here?
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17:00:20  <black_Nightmare> back for some time now :p
17:00:24  <black_Nightmare> (had to rush off before..meh)
17:00:25  <KUDr_wrk> Hackykid: yes, but have a boss on phone
17:00:45  <Hackykid> ah, i see
17:00:54  <black_Nightmare> if I try the mini_IN build...should I report any bugs to only richk or is there someone else in here too?
17:00:55  <black_Nightmare> just curious
17:01:12  <glx> black_Nightmare: richk67 mainly
17:01:52  <black_Nightmare> hm ok
17:02:23  <black_Nightmare> may as well as try it out just for having nothing to do sometimes :p (but now that'll push me to having -four- different openttd folder...oh image the MESS!!! lol)
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17:03:59  <black_Nightmare> know any people that have more than one openttd version/folder?
17:04:24  <Hackykid> hehe
17:04:32  <XeryusTC> black_Nightmare: i have 2, and i'll probably will have 3 soon :)
17:04:34  <glx> black_Nightmare: a lot :)
17:04:49  <black_Nightmare> xeryus..heh nice to see I'm not the only one doing this...
17:04:56  <black_Nightmare> my folder now goes like this.....
17:05:00  <jnmbk> I have 4 at least ...
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17:05:23  <XeryusTC> black_Nightmare: you dont make new folders just for newgrfs right?
17:05:52  *** jnmbk [n=jnmbk@] has left #openttd ["Konversation terminated!"]
17:07:05  <black_Nightmare> >openttd>[original download] .. >openttd>openttd-win32-nightly-r4690>[nightly build with pikka grfs in] .. >openttd>alternative (r4690)>[my own self-play one I'm just working on now..with all the custom grfs] .. and now I just added >openttd>Mini_IN r4593>
17:07:09  <black_Nightmare> xeryus...heh no
17:09:24  <black_Nightmare> hmm there's one mini_IN server running
17:09:25  <black_Nightmare> :->
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17:12:04  <hylje> whats the max amount of money
17:12:51  <black_Nightmare> ?
17:14:39  <XeryusTC> hylje: 2^32 or 2^64
17:14:51  <Sacro> 2^64
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17:17:10  <black_Nightmare> ohh you meant the max money the game could handle?
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17:22:08  <black_Nightmare> going be interesting trying to stay on top of two latest versions every day...
17:22:15  <black_Nightmare> the mini_IN and nightly builds
17:22:27  <black_Nightmare> that and updating the offical version any time that comes out
17:22:30  <black_Nightmare> ^_^
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17:23:08  <black_Nightmare> one question re the mini_IN anyhow...
17:23:27  <black_Nightmare> what is the '2 trains out of 2 (100%)' meaning in the co windows?
17:23:37  <black_Nightmare> me not sure I can make that out
17:24:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> well... it's either total trains in the "world", or total trains among all your sub companies
17:25:04  <black_Nightmare> ohhh... there's sub-companies? hmmm
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17:25:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, you can manage them from your company window, or in the status bar the button in your company colour
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17:25:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> i never tried that out though
17:26:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> could be fun in (coop) multiplayer
17:26:52  <hylje> :o
17:27:05  <black_Nightmare> wonder how you could create a sub-company now..... ^_^
17:27:14  <black_Nightmare> (just kinda wanted try it out heh)
17:27:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> next to the "build HQ" button
17:27:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> in your company window
17:27:46  <black_Nightmare> hmm I just placed two of richk's helidepots :p  they seem nice
17:27:50  <hylje> whats the point of sub companies
17:28:23  <black_Nightmare> hylje..probably to seperate the performance rating
17:28:44  <black_Nightmare> I recall someone told me they had a seperate co (in another openttd window) for the road vehicles that never would met the minimum profit needed)
17:28:52  <black_Nightmare> but I guess there could be other uses too
17:29:12  <black_Nightmare> eg one co is into freights..another is into passengers (that sounds like amtrak/up for example doesn't it?)
17:31:22  * Tobin wonders why his IRC client has spawned 307 threads
17:31:58  <Sacro> Tobin: its bored?
17:32:05  <black_Nightmare> anyway afk for some time
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17:36:04  * Tobin prods spim
17:36:04  <Bjarni> Tobin: did you have problems with YAPF?
17:36:25  <Tobin> Bjarni: Yes. I haven't tested the most recent revision though.
17:36:33  <Bjarni> it works for me
17:37:08  <Tobin> Bjarni: And I can't test right now, I'm writing a process switcher/scheduler in mips assembly.
17:37:41  <Tobin> Bjarni: Debug builds worked for me but nothing else. A problem with libraries.
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17:38:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> ahh... mips assembler... /me remembers 3rd semester :p
17:39:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> we had to do some DNA comparison algorithm... with recursion and dynamic programming (computed table)
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17:41:16  <Tobin> Yeah, stuff like that is fun in assembly. :)
17:41:57  <Tobin> Right now I'm timing my process scheduler/switcher with different length time slices... Lots of fun when it takes 2 minutes for a single run.
17:42:04  * Tobin waits patiently
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17:43:05  <Tobin> And it's pointless too, spim doesn't behave like a real CPU so it always takes the same length of time. The only thing that changes is the number of context switches.
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17:48:17  <Bjarni> bbl
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17:49:57  <Ihmemies> how the game calculates company value?
17:50:22  *** Hackykid [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
17:50:41  <ln-> you need to use an auxiliary verb in that kind of sentence.
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17:52:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> urgs... i need a feature that lets me identify stray non-electrified tiles!
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17:55:06  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: pain isnt it
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18:05:53  <Sacro> brb
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18:34:31  <tokai> KUDr: changed the anonymous unions in the instace datas already (yapf branch) ? :)
18:34:45  <KUDr> no
18:34:48  <KUDr> i will
18:35:04  <Sacro> for our morphos user :)
18:35:42  <Darkvater> notice the lack of an 's' after user :)
18:36:24  <KUDr> yes, its crazy
18:36:34  <KUDr> to fix something for ONE user
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18:38:27  <Sacro> hehe
18:40:23  <KUDr> hmm, it will too much of it
18:40:52  <KUDr> tokai: if you want to have it fixed, you will need to do it yourself
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18:41:28  <tokai|3> KUDr: i tried, but i have no idea how to fix that for crap++ :)
18:41:32  <KUDr> the code will be even more confusing and less readable
18:41:39  <tokai|3> it fails in init for me then
18:41:53  <KUDr> in init?
18:42:01  <KUDr> what does it mean?
18:42:13  <KUDr> during compilation?
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18:42:22  <Ihmemies> now i have an eternal self-feeding slowdown
18:42:24  <KUDr> or during runtime??
18:42:24  <tokai|3> well... i dont how u call that in crap++ :)  in the header u set some defaults for the instace data members
18:42:25  <MeusH> hey
18:42:28  <Ihmemies> trains just stall..
18:42:31  <Ihmemies> can't do anything to it
18:42:38  <Ihmemies> chain reaction
18:43:15  <KUDr> tokai: during compilation?
18:43:20  <tokai|3> yes
18:43:39  <KUDr> aha so you probably mean constructor
18:43:53  <tokai|3> this unionname.member(DEFAULTVALUE) thing fails then.. and i have no clue what to do here.
18:44:03  <KUDr> but i would need such crap compiler to see it
18:44:21  <KUDr> and try to fix it step by step
18:44:29  <KUDr> and recompile
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18:44:46  <KUDr> we can go to PM and try it together
18:45:10  <Hackykid> hey KUDr
18:45:19  <KUDr> Hackykid: hey
18:45:27  <KUDr> did you need something?
18:45:32  <tokai|3> KUDr: well.. just name the union and do the required changes. then i can tell u. I seriously never used c++ (i tried few times.. but its too weird.. i prefer OOP in c there it can be implemented in a logical way:) so I fail to fix it.
18:45:50  <Hackykid> i was wondering if you could explain some of the template magic in yapf to me :-)
18:46:10  <KUDr> yes
18:46:26  <KUDr> Hackykid: what exactly
18:47:53  <Hackykid> well, mostly 	      1) Tderived_   - your path finder class derived from this class
18:48:09  <Hackykid> i was guessing it was part of that static linking thingy you mentioned
18:48:21  <Hackykid> i'm just curious how it works, exactly :-)
18:48:54  <Hackykid> it seemed a bit strange to me, deriving from a class and then using the new class as a parameter to the class you are deriving from?
18:49:03  <peter1138> hi
18:49:42  <KUDr> Hackykid: Tderived was renamed to Tpf
18:49:46  <Hackykid> (and is the Tderived_ in line 18 the same as Tpf in line 35?)
18:49:55  <KUDr> i forgot to update the docs
18:49:59  <Hackykid> aah
18:50:15  <Hackykid> that explains some stuff :-)
18:50:25  <hylje> hmm, apache fails to serve stuff after messing a bit w/ confs
18:51:04  <Hackykid> so Tpf isnt really derived from CYapfBaseT then?
18:51:05  <hylje> no errors tho .x
18:51:14  <KUDr> Tpf is just template argument - it is abstract replacement for CYapfRoad1 or CYapfRail3 and so on
18:51:26  <KUDr> it is
18:51:43  <Hackykid> hmm
18:51:52  <Hackykid> yeah, ok
18:51:56  <KUDr> it is the last in the inheritance chain
18:52:17  <KUDr> so the base class can refer members from its derived class
18:52:30  <KUDr> and compiler composes it at compile time
18:52:42  <KUDr> so it is linked statically and can be inlined
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18:52:59  <KUDr> it is like macros, but much more flexible
18:53:40  <KUDr> lets take an example from yapf_rail.cpp
18:53:55  <Hackykid> opening
18:53:56  <KUDr> class CYapfRail2
18:53:56  <KUDr> 	: public CYapfCostCacheT            <CYapfRail2
18:53:56  <KUDr> 	, CYapfCostRailT                    <CYapfRail2
18:53:56  <KUDr> 	, CYapfOriginTileTwoWayT            <CYapfRail2
18:53:56  <KUDr> 	, CYapfDestinationRailTileOrStationT<CYapfRail2
18:53:56  <KUDr> 	, CYapfFollowRailT                  <CYapfRail2, CFollowTrackRail
18:53:58  <KUDr> 	, CYapfBaseT                        <CYapfRail2, CRailNodeListExitDir> > > > > > {};
18:54:24  <KUDr> CYapfRail2 derives from instance of CYapfCostCacheT
18:54:49  <KUDr> CYapfCostCacheT derives from CYapfCostRailT
18:54:52  <KUDr> and so on
18:55:12  <KUDr> always after completing template arguments
18:55:23  <Hackykid> aah, and so it instantiates the base class(es) with a reference to itself
18:55:27  <KUDr> so from the abstract template definition
18:55:33  <KUDr> you have a class instance
18:55:48  <KUDr> yes
18:56:09  <KUDr> they all receive CYapfRail2 as Tpf argument
18:56:18  <KUDr> so they all know who CYapfRail2 is
18:56:30  <KUDr> and can reference its methods directly
18:56:42  <Hackykid> aah, that happens via FORCEINLINE Tpf& Yapf() {return *static_cast<Tpf*>(this);}
18:56:48  <Hackykid> then right?
18:56:55  <KUDr> so at the end you compose your custom Yapf from several modules
18:57:09  <KUDr> yes
18:57:45  <KUDr> it is common way how to make fast and modular code - so compiler can fully optimize it
18:57:56  <hylje> hmm, what can i do to make apache2 reset cleanly
18:58:03  <Hackykid> ah, yes, i see
18:58:16  <KUDr> the drawback is, that for each Yapf it generates new binary
18:58:20  <MeusH> Client #3 is slow, try increasing *net_frame_freq to a higher value!
18:58:25  <KUDr> so the code is bigger
18:58:27  <MeusH> what's the optimal value?
18:58:38  <KUDr> it is optimized for speed only, not for size
18:58:42  <Hackykid> you could do the same thing with virtual methods and stuff like that, but that would be slower
18:58:55  <Hackykid> i think i understand now :-)
18:59:04  <KUDr> yes, exactly
18:59:19  <KUDr> virtual methods are more like OOP in C
18:59:34  <KUDr> but templates are better for speed
18:59:45  <KUDr> and give you the same flexibility
18:59:52  <KUDr> but only at compile time
19:00:02  <KUDr> therefore 'static'
19:00:40  <KUDr> it is the exact opposite from how higher languages do it (dynamic binding)
19:02:03  <Hackykid> interesting indeed
19:02:37  <KUDr> it is not my invention - you can learn it from any good C++ book
19:02:51  <Hackykid> well, not from the ones i've read :-p
19:03:02  <KUDr> hmm
19:03:19  <KUDr> look for generic C++ programing
19:03:19  <Hackykid> they mostly just showed templates as a good way to make generic containers and stuff like that
19:03:46  <KUDr> yes - simply template basics
19:04:30  <KUDr> try to understand generic C++ programing and make your own so called type lists
19:04:42  <KUDr> it will move you to the next level
19:05:00  <Hackykid> hmm, type lists?
19:05:10  <KUDr> yes - very nice thing
19:05:40  <KUDr> look at boost library
19:05:52  <KUDr> it is very popular
19:06:02  <KUDr> but too huge for normal using
19:06:13  <KUDr> but you can learn a lot from it
19:06:44  <KUDr> then you will think that C++ has no limist
19:06:51  <KUDr> limits
19:07:43  <Hackykid> hehe
19:08:03  <Hackykid> sounds very interesting :-)
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19:22:56  <Celestar> Tron: you there?
19:23:02  <Celestar> Hackykid: hey. feel like testing?
19:23:29  <Hackykid> ah, yeah
19:23:57  <Celestar> wait I'll get you a link :)
19:24:03  <Hackykid> that patch from this morning?
19:24:09  <Hackykid> agains bridge branch?
19:24:57  <Celestar> yes
19:25:04  <Celestar>
19:25:22  *** coppercore [] has quit [Broken pipe]
19:26:56  <MeusH> cya
19:26:57  *** MeusH [] has quit ["Goodbye"]
19:26:58  <Celestar>
19:27:00  <Celestar> me->gone();
19:27:03  <Celestar> cu tomorrow
19:27:23  <Hackykid> hmm
19:27:32  <Hackykid> now which patch should i test? :-p
19:27:39  <Celestar> er .. the bigger one :P
19:28:38  <Born_Acorn> What is coolbridge?
19:28:42  <Born_Acorn> Nobody told me :(
19:30:09  <Ihmemies> does the replace trains thingy replace also new (not too old) trains?
19:30:56  <KUDr> tokai|3: accept DCC file
19:31:05  <hylje> Ihmemies: yes
19:31:12  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4716 /trunk/newgrf.c: - NewGRF: fix problem with loading custom station class id; use BSWAP32() only on variables, not functions.
19:32:22  <tokai> KUDr: send to me pls.
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19:32:29  <Born_Acorn> peter1138! whats coolbridges?
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19:32:43  <peter1138> not newstations
19:32:45  <KUDr> tokai: get it
19:32:47  <Darkvater> peter1138: 4716 really was broken?
19:32:53  <Ihmemies> so it's basically useless... I can't replace my trains with same model
19:32:59  <peter1138> Darkvater: yes ^^
19:33:01  <Ihmemies> and I can't replace only my old trains
19:33:01  <Ihmemies> ......
19:33:09  <Darkvater> peter1138: why? do you know?
19:33:09  <peter1138> it called grf_load_dword() for each byte to swap
19:33:10  <Ihmemies> have to do everything manually anyways
19:33:11  <tokai> KUDr: well.. its connectiong... it says:)
19:33:12  <Hackykid> eh.. checking out the bridge branch failed :-(
19:33:24  <KUDr> go PM
19:34:06  <peter1138> hence BSWAP32() is unsafe if a function call has side effects
19:34:33  <Hackykid> and now even 'svn cleanup' fails :-(
19:34:49  <Darkvater> peter1138: that is totally bizar. You would think it does it with the returnvalue of grf_load_dword
19:34:56  <peter1138> newp
19:35:08  <peter1138> if you look at the macro, it literally puts "x" in 4 times
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19:35:21  <Darkvater> ah, point taken
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19:35:33  <Tron> <peter1138> it called grf_load_dword() for each byte to swap <--- no, it swaps 4 different double-words
19:35:49  <Darkvater> perhaps we should functioninze BSWAP
19:36:43  <Ihmemies> how I can get rid of O shaped road the city sprawled? like this:
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19:38:25  <Celestar> back for 3 minutes.
19:38:30  <Celestar> it need space to vent
19:38:42  <Darkvater> wb
19:39:08  <Darkvater> Celestar: I'll try to hack-fix st->last_vehicle without savegame change
19:39:27  <Celestar> Darkvater: just check whether the vehicle index does exist? is there such a function?
19:39:48  <Darkvater> yeah, which I'll do IsValidVehicle() or something it's called I think
19:41:35  <Darkvater> it'll be suboptimal but at least not crash
19:42:06  <Celestar> KUDr: <= isn't this fixed?
19:43:41  <KUDr> Celestar: yes, but i still have no rights at that bugs....
19:43:55  <Born_Acorn> What is coolbridges? I must know! It sounds so cool!
19:43:56  <KUDr> Celestar: do something with it please
19:44:07  <Darkvater> Born_Acorn: they're cool
19:44:20  <Celestar> KUDr: close the report?
19:44:24  <KUDr> yes
19:44:24  <Celestar> Born_Acorn:
19:44:35  * Born_Acorn faints
19:44:57  <Born_Acorn> Its like what peter1138 tried, but much, much, much better!
19:45:11  <peter1138> yes
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19:45:59  <Darkvater> KUDr: you can close bugs now on FS
19:46:13  <Celestar> KUDr:
19:46:17  <Celestar> closed :)
19:47:43  * peter1138 ponders the speed of runtime byteswapping
19:48:03  <KUDr> Darkvater: thanks
19:48:21  <Darkvater> peter1138: what'sup?
19:48:21  <Celestar> peter1138: if you're lucky, about 3 cycles :P
19:48:22  <Darkvater> np
19:48:30  <KUDr> Darkvater: and can i assign some of them to me?
19:48:32  <Darkvater> yes
19:48:44  <KUDr> thanks
19:48:53  <peter1138> Darkvater: our way of handling newgrf
19:49:02  <peter1138> i.e. parse everything into allocated memory
19:49:02  <Ihmemies> 4-rail main lines are pain in the ass to design :(
19:49:06  <Darkvater> I mean the byteswapping
19:49:19  <peter1138> as opposed to ttdp's which is load grf into memory, *ding*
19:49:30  <Darkvater> ah, well like that
19:49:32  <peter1138> wondering if the latter is possible for us
19:50:05  <Darkvater> I did a quick test the other time making a BIG buffer, and only reading when neccessary etc.
19:50:34  <Darkvater> it was only the one for actions not reading from file, but the difference was minimal, about 1%
19:50:55  <Darkvater> I forgot to try it with buffering the whole grf file or reading bigger chunks before I deleted it ;p
19:51:16  <Celestar> reading from file is kinda  .. slow.
19:51:22  <Celestar> compared to reading from L2 cache.
19:51:31  <hylje> Celestar: o rly ?
19:51:37  <peter1138> Darkvater: i'm not talking about loading the file and parsing that :)
19:51:38  <Celestar> (=
19:52:06  <Darkvater> then what? Because everything else we put into our own format
19:52:22  <peter1138> exactly
19:52:47  <peter1138> where as ttdp literally uses it as its data
19:52:55  <Darkvater> you want to use the loaded grf file as already set-up data?
19:53:01  <Darkvater> hmm
19:53:10  <peter1138> i'm wondering if it's possible
19:55:20  <peter1138> hmm, laggy
19:55:31  <Celestar> ok
19:55:35  <Celestar> I'm of a bit (=
19:56:18  <Darkvater> peter1138: it could help memory fragmentation but I think we will severly limit ourselfs and probably create more work in the end
19:57:26  <Born_Acorn> I untangled the screenshot with my eyes. Bridges over bridges. wow.
19:57:39  <Darkvater> Born_Acorn: yeah, Celestar should've made one which is non-transparent
19:57:44  <Darkvater> which reminds me
19:57:50  <Darkvater> it's time to kick some translator ass again
19:58:11  <Born_Acorn> He did
19:58:21  <Darkvater> but not of #4
19:58:26  <Born_Acorn>
19:58:32  <Born_Acorn> Looks the same
19:58:40  <hylje> overdone ftw
19:59:21  <hylje> hmm, what is there against implementing some kinds of shadow
19:59:36  <hylje> could be slightly helful with those really high bridges
19:59:40  <Darkvater> how do I get back in the stackframe with gdb?
19:59:58  <Born_Acorn> Can bridges go over small buildings? They did that in RL with towns in the valleys below.
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20:00:12  <hylje> :D
20:00:21  <Born_Acorn>
20:00:29  <hylje> why not large buildings too if bridge is high enough.. =]
20:00:29  <Born_Acorn> Theres a school under that somewhere.
20:00:40  <Darkvater> Born_Acorn: celestar says he will specify what height is allowed below bridges. But probably not for a while
20:00:55  <Born_Acorn> cool.
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20:01:22  <Hackykid> Celestar: icant seem to get the patch applied
20:01:39  <Darkvater> ah up #
20:01:49  <Hackykid> it cant fine tunnel_cmd.c?
20:03:14  <peter1138> newgrf.c:2520: warning: passing argument 1 of 'free' discards qualifiers from pointer target type
20:03:17  <peter1138> o_O
20:03:39  <peter1138> the struct defines it as const
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20:05:40  <Darkvater> hehe :)
20:05:48  <Darkvater> just cast it
20:09:43  <CIA-3> Darkvater * r4717 /branch/0.4/station_cmd.c:
20:09:43  <CIA-3> - Backport from trunk (r4466):
20:09:43  <CIA-3>  Fix: Game no longer crashes when the last vehicle serving a station has been
20:09:43  <CIA-3>  deleted. This is not exactly the same fix as in trunk/ where it might still
20:09:43  <CIA-3>  accept types of invalid types but it doesn't crash anymore. The true fix is
20:09:44  <CIA-3>  not possible without a savegame bump.
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20:13:57  <black_Nightmare> any of you know if there were like any central (or sorta of) sites aside to
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20:14:26  <Darkvater> there was dinges's site but it's down
20:14:35  <black_Nightmare> ah hm ok
20:14:49  <black_Nightmare> perhaps I'll surf several long threads for signature links just to see then
20:16:43  <black_Nightmare> ever seen ?
20:16:50  <Darkvater> yes
20:16:58  <Darkvater> the one with the asian guys/busses?
20:17:25  <black_Nightmare> yeah...many long vehicles
20:17:37  <black_Nightmare> me wonder about trying the town replacement set...just out of curiousity
20:18:00  <black_Nightmare> wish there was support for new industries but I guess this is a "will come soon eventually" feature I hope heh (even if that'll be a long time)
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20:22:46  <peter1138> i wish you could break from an if...
20:23:03  <Darkvater> goto ^^
20:23:15  <peter1138> go away :P
20:23:24  <Darkvater> no go to
20:23:45  <Prof_Frink> Darkvater: comefrom
20:24:08  <black_Nightmare> lol :))
20:25:15  <CIA-3> Darkvater * r4718 /branch/0.4/pathfind.c:
20:25:15  <CIA-3> - Backport from trunk (r4715):
20:25:15  <CIA-3>  Fix: Don't allow PF to enter train depot from the back (signal updates)
20:25:15  <peter1138> and boo
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20:25:24  <peter1138> i need _station_dispay_datas from rail_cmd.c
20:25:27  <Sacro> peter1138: isnt there an exit or something?
20:25:54  <Darkvater> blathijs: FS57 is waiting for you :)
20:26:04  <black_Nightmare> darkvater  END
20:26:14  <peter1138> bah, cba
20:26:15  <black_Nightmare> <<knew some basics of qbasic :p
20:27:03  <Ihmemies> eh
20:27:11  <Ihmemies> how I can open those screenshots of my ttd maps?
20:27:30  <Ihmemies> photoshop refuses to open my 40896x20448 bmp files? :D
20:27:57  <Sacro> Ihmemies: windows photo and fax viewer?
20:28:09  <Prof_Frink> gthumb!
20:28:35  <Ihmemies> eh..
20:28:41  <Ihmemies> how it could do it when photoshop can't? :D
20:28:53  <black_Nightmare> well I know that stations can't be replaced in openttd yet but you still can replace any town buildings or am I wrong?  just checking
20:29:03  <black_Nightmare> (just noticed this anyhow )
20:29:11  <hylje> you can upgrade stations
20:29:32  <Ihmemies> also acdsee refuses to save the bmp in other formats
20:29:36  <Ihmemies> is there anything I can do? ;D
20:29:48  <black_Nightmare> hylje...really?
20:29:58  <hylje> ya, with the "upgrade rail" tool
20:30:11  <black_Nightmare> I mean station graphics lol
20:30:15  <black_Nightmare> sorry ^_^
20:30:20  <Ihmemies> sigh
20:30:31  <Ihmemies> why the giant screenshot option is even there if the results are unusable ;D
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20:30:49  <hylje> unusable is relative
20:30:52  <hylje> :>
20:30:52  <peter1138> black_Nightmare: some of those might work, if it weren't for the damn self installer exes
20:31:38  <black_Nightmare> peter...yeah I noticed that...I'm only interested in a few for the urban renewal set
20:32:07  <black_Nightmare> you think that the FontRenew one might work in openttd?
20:32:23  <black_Nightmare> (I always could try test it if you dunno)
20:32:42  <peter1138> it should do
20:32:50  <peter1138> (until freetype, heh)
20:32:55  <Darkvater> it works partly
20:33:02  <black_Nightmare> ok..thats several grf's to test-n-try .. brb ;)
20:33:16  <Darkvater> cause it mixes up some fonts. for example you don't get an upper-arrow as well as none of the vehicle-icons show up
20:33:19  <Darkvater> :s
20:33:42  <black_Nightmare> well I'll test it and if its not going smoothly..just delete the file and the openttd text reference :p
20:33:48  <peter1138> oh
20:33:50  <black_Nightmare> nothing can really go wrong :-)
20:33:57  <peter1138> Darkvater: cos we use different codes...
20:34:40  <Darkvater> bad fontrenew
20:34:52  <Darkvater> black_Nightmare: you can always use the exe one, that works just fine
20:35:45  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4719 /trunk/ (newgrf.c rail_cmd.c station_cmd.c): - Newstations: instead of drawing nothing, fall back to the default sprite layout if a station layout specifies so.
20:37:05  <black_Nightmare> hmm...loading openttd reminded me...
20:37:21  <black_Nightmare> I still need to figure about fixing this NG track grf file
20:37:53  <black_Nightmare> its set to replace maglev but the depot still only show maglev engines alone .. yet the standard rail depot actually shows the NG engines there.... heh meh -- might be something I can't fix myself
20:38:20  <black_Nightmare> (the maglev rail/depot tools actually lay NG rails + depot so at least that worked .. just not the vehicles)
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20:41:07  <Sacro> bug in the latest nightly with UKRS, 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 saddle tanks are shown facing backwards in train purchase window
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20:41:44  <Prof_Frink> Lets guess: those are thoe ones that can run backwards
20:41:56  <Sacro> but then they puff out the cabin
20:42:06  <black_Nightmare> prof...heh true...their placement has been random each time I build/clone one of these :-)
20:42:12  <black_Nightmare> sacro..thats a limit of the physics...
20:42:20  <black_Nightmare> I think ttdx only had one single fixed smoke point
20:42:33  <black_Nightmare> so even a backward diesel would still exhaust from the 'front'
20:42:43  <black_Nightmare> (I may be wrong but this is my thought)
20:42:46  <Sacro> black_Nightmare: ctrl+click to reverse it
20:42:50  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4720 /trunk/newgrf.c: - Newstations: instead of literally copying sprite layout data, just copy the pointer to the existing data.
20:43:29  <black_Nightmare> anyway this is what I'm trying to get loading....
20:43:38  <black_Nightmare> I can see all standard gauge trains just fine from the rail depot
20:44:09  <black_Nightmare> but in the maglev-replacing NG depot I still see only the three original maglev engines and none of the supposed NG one (which strangely show up in the standard rail depot list..huh lol)
20:44:11  <DaleStan> <black_Nightmare> I think ttdx only had one single fixed smoke point <-- True of TTD. Not of TTDPatch.
20:44:28  <black_Nightmare> dalestan...ah ok...ty anyway
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20:48:20  <peter1138> Sacro: was it ok last night?
20:49:23  <peter1138> if (v == NULL) return group->g.real.loaded[0];
20:49:32  <peter1138> i think that should be loading, but...
20:49:42  <Sacro> peter1138: not sure, only just noticed it
20:51:44  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4721 /trunk/newgrf_engine.c: - NewGRF: use loading sprites rather than loaded when there is no vehicle (fixes issue with purchase list)
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20:52:21  <peter1138> there you go
20:53:38  <Sacro> turned it round then? will it by default build facing forward too?
20:53:50  <peter1138> for build, it's random
20:53:52  <black_Nightmare> hm well the Fontrenew seem to work just fine
20:54:08  <black_Nightmare> but it seem a tad height-suqatty to me so hm dunno if I'll keep it
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21:07:49  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4722 /trunk/ (newgrf.c newgrf_station.h): - Newstations: release station sprite layout data when uninitializing NewGRF data.
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21:11:08  <black_Nightmare> hey sacro :p
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21:14:21  <Sacro> hey black_Nightmare
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21:15:36  <black_Nightmare> so what you doing now sacro? :P
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21:19:32  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4723 /trunk/ (5 files): - Newstations: add TileIndex parameter to station resolver.
21:23:36  <peter1138> sleeep
21:24:01  <black_Nightmare> good night peter :p
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21:25:51  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4724 /trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): - Newstations: Add per-tile random data for station tiles.
21:26:22  <peter1138> (sorry, pbs)
21:26:26  <Darkvater> he is sleep-committing!
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21:27:28  <glx> ho RichK67 will not happy (and IN pbs fans too)
21:28:19  <CIA-3> KUDr * r4725 /branch/yapf/yapf/ (blob.hpp yapf_costrail.hpp yapf_node_rail.hpp): [YAPF] Fix: tokai/morphos uses some obsolete GCC that doesn't support unnamed structs/unions
21:28:30  <black_Nightmare> quick question if anyone mind...-any- stations can't be graphic replaced in openttd right?  (like even a download for new look of the city airport wouldn't work) .. or is there certain allowances?
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21:28:44  <black_Nightmare> and hey there already having a bit too much fun trying like many different grf's now
21:28:54  <CIA-3> Darkvater * r4726 /branch/0.4/tunnelbridge_cmd.c:
21:28:54  <CIA-3> - Backport from trunk (r4373, r4374, r4402):
21:28:54  <CIA-3>  Fix: Some weird behaviour with tile selection near bridges
21:28:55  <peter1138> glx: i shall change m4 for station tiles
21:28:58  <black_Nightmare> and only a few didn't work..then a fewer I didn't like so I deleted ^_^
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21:29:10  <glx> peter1138: I know :)
21:29:20  <peter1138> 7 bits instead of all 8 will do the job
21:30:43  <Noldo> are there 0.4.5 debs laying around somewhere?
21:32:40  <Noldo> sf is my friend it seems
21:34:13  <CIA-3> Darkvater * r4727 /branch/0.4/map.c:
21:34:13  <CIA-3> - Backport from trunk (r4688):
21:34:13  <CIA-3>  Fix: Ensure the map memory is cleared after it is allocated. This fixes
21:34:13  <CIA-3>  random deserts that sometimes occurred.
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21:35:12  <CIA-3> Darkvater * r4728 /branch/0.4/strgen/strgen.c:
21:35:12  <CIA-3> - Backport from trunk (r4689):
21:35:12  <CIA-3>  Codechange: correct parameter order or calloc, and use the sizeof
21:35:12  <CIA-3>  the variable rather than a struct
21:35:35  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4729 /trunk/ (newgrf_station.c newgrf_station.h): - Newstations: replace old station resolver with new resolver code (as has happened for vehicles)
21:35:59  <Darkvater> what happened to sleep? :)
21:36:12  <peter1138> uh, well
21:36:18  <peter1138> sleep committing ;)
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21:40:35  <peter1138> sleep now :)
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21:40:48  <CIA-3> Darkvater * r4730 /branch/0.4/misc_gui.c:
21:40:48  <CIA-3> - Backport from trunk (r4690):
21:40:48  <CIA-3>  Fix (r4668, br4301): Editing a too long string in the editbox resulted in improper strings
21:40:48  <CIA-3>  Update about box with Mihamix's real name
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21:43:02  <Darkvater> orudge: ping!
21:43:07  <glx> KUDr: pinf
21:43:14  <KUDr> ponf
21:43:27  <glx> many warnigs in direction.h
21:43:41  <KUDr> what compiler?
21:43:47  <glx> gcc mingw
21:43:51  <KUDr> hmm
21:43:59  <KUDr> wait
21:44:29  <glx> yapf/../direction.h:123: warning: comparison between `enum DiagDirection' and `enum Direction'
21:44:30  <glx> yapf/../direction.h:128: warning: comparison between `enum DiagDirection' and `enum Axis'
21:44:36  <orudge> Darkvater: pong!
21:44:47  <tokai|3> ping!
21:45:04  <Darkvater> orudge: r4203 do you know why you did that?
21:45:17  * orudge checks
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21:45:19  <Darkvater> orudge: and can your magic compiler check branch/0.4/ if that backport is needed or not
21:45:24  <KUDr> glx: will be somebody's else error
21:45:40  <Darkvater> orudge: I had some people test yesterday with mingw, it wasn't needed for them, so it might be the multistop rewrite
21:45:56  <orudge> Well, it wasn't working with my mingw32, which isn't the very latest but is still pretty recent
21:46:11  <orudge> and I've been compiling 0.4 as you've been committing stuff
21:46:12  <Darkvater> check please :)
21:46:21  <orudge> and so far so good
21:46:24  <Darkvater> so it doesn't work ATM?
21:46:26  <Darkvater> or it does?
21:46:30  <orudge> Ehm
21:46:33  <glx> KUDr: latest trunk sync caused it?
21:46:41  <orudge> Oh, I thought you meant OS/2 when you talked about "magic compiler"
21:46:44  <KUDr> glx: probably
21:46:48  <orudge> Shall test 0.4 in mingw32
21:48:17  <orudge> The 0.4 branch is fine in OS/2 just now anyway, by the way
21:48:21  <orudge> Just waiting for it to compile on mingw32
21:48:54  <Darkvater> - Fix compilation on mingw32 (stdint.h not included)
21:49:04  <Darkvater> this is the commit log so I presume you meant mingw
21:49:39  <orudge> Yep, I know that committ
21:49:55  <glx> KUDr: I'm fixing it
21:50:01  <orudge> am just testing branch/0.4 now, anyway
21:50:03  <KUDr> me too
21:50:05  <KUDr> :)
21:50:08  <KUDr> go ahead
21:50:27  <glx> indeed someone used copy/paste without care :)
21:50:31  <KUDr> just wanted to commit it
21:50:38  <Darkvater> orudge: ok, just add anything you want to
21:51:03  <glx> KUDr: I'm compiling to check but it's slow on my machine
21:51:20  <orudge> OK, it doesn't work without the backport
21:51:22  <orudge> ..
21:51:38  <orudge>
21:51:52  <orudge> gcc v3.2.3
21:52:08  <orudge> Not sure on the actual mingw version
21:52:38  <glx> gcc 3.4.2 for my mingw
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21:52:55  <Darkvater> ok so you got a magic mingw
21:52:57  <Sacro> broken :(
21:52:57  <orudge> Hmm, 3.1.0 for the mingw package itself it seems
21:53:01  <orudge> Magic? No, just older, it seems.
21:53:24  <Darkvater> no it's magic cause you should upgrade :)
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21:53:28  <glx> or old win32api
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21:53:59  <orudge> So it seems
21:54:07  *** tokai [] has quit ["It's like, wah."]
21:54:12  <orudge> but it surely doesn't hurt to support old versions too much?
21:54:16  <orudge> at least if it's just a minor thing like that.
21:54:27  <orudge> we support old versions of MSVC and gcc and whatnot
21:54:32  <Darkvater> no we don't
21:54:41  <Darkvater> msvc6 is getting phased out soon
21:55:00  <KUDr> Darkvater: really?
21:55:13  <Darkvater> and old gcc is only supported cause of tokai here, but if yapf's getting in and it doesn't compile for him he has it bad
21:55:21  <Darkvater> KUDr: there is no reason to keep hacking at it
21:55:28  <Darkvater> besides, vs2005 express is a free download
21:55:31  * KUDr is happy
21:55:32  * orudge tends to use MSVC6 as his primary compiler
21:55:36  <orudge> but oh well.
21:55:45  <KUDr> hmm
21:55:53  <orudge> It's faster than VC 2005
21:55:55  <orudge> at least when it comes to the UI
21:56:03  * orudge does at least have VS2005 thanks to MSDNAA
21:56:13  <orudge> I also have a horrible feeling that yapf is going to break Watcom
21:56:16  <orudge> but haven't yet tried it much.
21:56:22  <KUDr> orudge: you can integrate vs2005 compiler into VC6 IDE
21:56:52  <KUDr> orudge: do you have watcom?
21:57:01  <orudge> Yes.
21:57:06  <orudge> I'm just checking out yapf now.
21:57:09  <KUDr> so try it
21:57:11  <KUDr> please
21:57:13  <CIA-3> Darkvater * r4731 /branch/0.4/win32.c:
21:57:13  <CIA-3> - Backport from trunk (r4203):
21:57:13  <CIA-3>  Fix: compile on older mingw32 versions (3.1.0)
21:57:17  <KUDr> ok
21:58:02  <orudge> Ooh, Open Watcom 1.5
21:58:04  * orudge upgrades
21:58:12  <KUDr> good idea
21:58:22  <Darkvater> ok I think that's it for me today :)
21:58:28  <Darkvater> gn all
21:58:29  <orudge> including more C99 support
21:58:36  <KUDr> Darkvater: gn
21:58:45  <glx> night Darkvater
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22:08:27  <orudge> KUDr - errors from Watcom:
22:08:27  <orudge> pool.h(34): Error! E370: col(1) constructor is required for a class with a const member
22:08:42  <orudge> yapf\blob.hpp(8): Error! E455: col(1) function templates cannot have default arguments
22:08:56  * orudge hasn't done advanced things with C++, so cannot fix them
22:10:41  <orudge> Also a load of warnings
22:11:39  <orudge> to be specific
22:12:12  <CIA-3> glx * r4732 /trunk/direction.h: - Fix: use correct types in IsValid[Direction|Axis]
22:12:17  <glx> KUDr: so it will be in next sync :)
22:12:45  <orudge> KUDr: May be other errors too in other files which haven't yet been reached...
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22:14:00  <orudge> Let me know if I can do anything, shall test whatever needs testing.
22:14:03  * orudge busy for now
22:14:23  <KUDr> hmm
22:14:41  <orudge> well, I will be busy
22:14:44  <orudge> once I get around to doing some work
22:14:59  <KUDr> orudge thanx
22:15:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> [03.05. 23:31] <black_Nightmare> quick question if anyone mind...-any- stations can't be graphic replaced in openttd right?  (like even a download for new look of the city airport wouldn't work) .. or is there certain allowances? <- airport replacement will most definitely break the larger airports that TTDP does not have
22:16:20  <Sacro> [23:19] <Eddi|zuHause2> [03.05. 23:31] <- noooooooooooooooo time problems
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22:16:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> i know
22:16:51  <KUDr> hmm, if watcom can't deal with default template args, it will not support template arguments of type template
22:16:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> it is called timezones :p
22:17:15  <KUDr> then yapf will never be more clear and understandable
22:17:44  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: explain the 30 mins
22:17:59  <Sacro> AFAIK no timezone is GMT+1:30
22:18:00  <orudge> I have no idea how good Watcom's support for advanced C++ thingybobs is
22:18:10  <orudge> but there may be options that can be tweaked
22:18:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> that is because he said that 50 minutes ago?
22:18:23  <KUDr> orudge: it is basic C++ what i used
22:18:29  <orudge> although, it doesn't look like it.
22:18:32  <orudge> Hmm.
22:19:01  <KUDr> at work we use much more advanced lang features
22:19:43  <orudge> An on/off switch for yapf then, so it can be compiled without, at least until watcom supports whatever and/or yapf supports watcom?
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22:20:04  <Noldo> what is watcom?
22:20:07  <MeusH> hey
22:20:13  <orudge>
22:20:14  <KUDr> or trash watcom
22:20:16  <orudge> No
22:20:19  <orudge> Can't do that.
22:20:25  <orudge> as the OS/2 port is appreciated by many OS/2 users
22:20:29  <KUDr> OS/2?
22:20:31  <orudge> and I have had much trouble getting gcc working on OS/
22:20:32  <orudge> OS/2
22:20:32  <orudge> Yes.
22:20:32  <KUDr> hmm
22:20:40  <KUDr> like morphos
22:20:42  <orudge> or at least, finding a decent gcc implementation.
22:20:47  <KUDr> yes
22:20:54  <KUDr> it would be perfect
22:20:56  <orudge> along with suitable build tools.
22:21:01  <orudge> Watcom works nicely otherwise
22:21:01  <KUDr> GCC is good
22:21:02  <orudge> for the most part.
22:21:09  <KUDr> at least from 3.3x
22:21:16  *** Tobin [] has quit []
22:21:20  <black_Nightmare> back (from supper) meh
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22:21:33  <KUDr> Watcom is good for C i know - i used it a lot
22:21:43  <orudge> Well, if you can manage to tweak anything without making the code horrible, then please try to do so, KUDr. If not, an on/off switch would be nice ;>
22:21:49  <black_Nightmare> eddi...ty for that least this town+airport set has a parameter to turn the airport off....guess I'll try that in a moment and see how well this grf works
22:22:03  <orudge> Anyway, I'm going to find some toilet paper and, well, go to the toilet. Meant to buy some today, but forgot.
22:22:19  <KUDr> i must get watcom somewhere
22:22:22  <KUDr> and try it
22:22:30  <orudge>
22:22:34  <orudge> You can build all targets from all hosts
22:22:39  <orudge> so you can build the OS/2 version from Win32 or whatever
22:22:44  <KUDr> and what else it needs to work?
22:22:46  <orudge> with the OS/2 version, you'll need various libraries
22:22:53  <orudge> which should be in the latest on the SF page
22:22:55  <orudge> (for openttd)
22:23:08  <KUDr> aha
22:23:16  <black_Nightmare> eddi you want see the link to the set I was looking to get?
22:23:27  <Sacro> what are the differences between windows 9x and OS/2?
22:23:35  <orudge> Ehm, quite a lot.
22:23:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> why would i need that link?
22:23:38  <orudge> OS/2 is more like Windows NT.
22:23:38  <KUDr> heh big
22:23:47  <KUDr> yes
22:24:01  <black_Nightmare> eddi....heh never mind I said that then ;)
22:24:03  <orudge> Windows 9x is more like MS-DOS + Win 3.1, sort of.
22:24:12  <orudge> with Win32s, perhaps ¬_
22:24:23  <orudge> Anyway
22:24:23  <black_Nightmare> brb to try this building set with airport disabled
22:24:24  <Sacro> oh right, i never really heard of it much
22:24:25  * orudge back soon
22:26:57  <KUDr> hehe: "... as well as updating the compilers to better support the latest C and C++ standards." <-- from that watcom page
22:27:14  <Ihmemies> uh
22:27:23  <Ihmemies> I just counted... 51 trains goes through my 9-platform station
22:29:14  <black_Nightmare> hrm..this new building grf isn't even showing up..oh well.. -crosses another nonworking off list-
22:29:16  <XeryusTC> Ihmemies: try 140+ trains on a 128x128 map going through a 12 platform station
22:29:40  <Ihmemies> these trains go 104km/h.
22:30:10  <XeryusTC> those where tims
22:30:14  <Ihmemies> tims? :P
22:30:16  <Ihmemies>
22:30:27  <Ihmemies> it looks like that.. except i added lights to every rail square
22:30:29  <Ihmemies> it helped a lot :D
22:30:35  <black_Nightmare> if anyone might have any quick insight then this is what I'm trying use: (and the openttd file has this added to bottom 'ttrs2w.GRF = 2,1,0,0')
22:30:57  <XeryusTC> i think that it needs better presignalling
22:31:02  <Ihmemies> ? :o
22:31:08  <black_Nightmare> too
22:31:13  <Ihmemies> I use waypoints and all? ;)
22:31:17  <XeryusTC> <- check that one out
22:31:47  <Ihmemies> uh-oh
22:31:49  <XeryusTC> i exactly the same station layout in a 128x128 map with 140+ trains, works perfectly
22:31:49  <Sacro> just spotted a graphics bug in latest nightly with UKRS
22:32:44  <Ihmemies> i'll have to keep that in mind in future games
22:32:57  <Ihmemies> now it would be a burden to shut that station down and redo everything
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22:34:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> urgs... TortoiseSVN fails horribly trying to move from branch/yapf to trunk
22:34:57  *** iridium is now known as iridium`nh
22:35:34  <KUDr> Eddi|zuHause2: move it to trunk? is it not too soon?
22:36:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> no... i mean changing the svn-location
22:36:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> from where i check out
22:36:06  <KUDr> aha
22:36:14  <Ihmemies> that factory produces 2400 goods/month :(
22:36:32  <black_Nightmare> hmm not sure if its been mentioned on forum (too many sites opened to be able to bother looking now lol) but..anyone have any thoughts on if rails could go straight&diagonal on roads instead of being limited to only 90 degree crossings with it?
22:36:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> highly desired, but not yet possible
22:37:23  <Ihmemies> i want bridges with lights more :P
22:37:33  <black_Nightmare> yeah because I can image not having to make S curves just to cross a truck road somewhere for starters
22:37:54  <black_Nightmare> but also biggest (as I noticed a few times) would be trams inside towns .. seem this was in ttdpatch
22:37:56  <Sacro> needs new map array
22:38:18  <Sacro> and some snazzy new graphics
22:38:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> trams are not supported yet
22:38:26  <black_Nightmare> sacro...true
22:38:34  <black_Nightmare> still diagonal road crossings might be a nice consideration
22:38:42  <black_Nightmare> no more S curves just for someone's road route
22:38:43  <Sacro> yeah, and im sure it'll get done
22:38:50  <MeusH> cya
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22:38:57  <Sacro> hmm
22:39:36  <black_Nightmare> diagonal bridges too sacro? (I'm sure celestar said he (or was that a she? .....errummm...forget I asked THAT!!!!) was trying work on that already no?)
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22:40:19  <black_Nightmare> btw one of the thing I really like from the mini_IN build that I wish was in the nightly release (or even the offical) is that if you drag for bridges you can see an exact outline of where the bridge itself would have gone (not just the tiles it occupies)
22:40:24  <XeryusTC> black_Nightmare: he's a he, there are no woman playing ottd afaik (and on the (maybe Jessica is one :P))
22:40:30  <black_Nightmare> not sure who's patch that would be but still
22:40:45  <black_Nightmare>'re amusing me and you know it already :))
22:41:29  <XeryusTC> :)
22:41:46  <Sacro> yeah Celestar has mentioned it
22:41:55  <Sacro> XeryusTC: theres LadyHawk too
22:42:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> the bridge dragging thing is a little buggy
22:42:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> it has wrong height sometimes
22:42:23  <XeryusTC> Sacro: that sounds like a 12 year old to pretend to be a 19 year old woman ;)
22:42:28  <black_Nightmare> ah I guess its not quite ready for nightly release
22:42:38  <black_Nightmare> I like the thought behind it tho
22:44:15  <Sacro> XeryusTC: yeah, damn 12 year olds
22:44:19  <Ihmemies> heh
22:44:35  <Ihmemies> my software midi player (yamaha xg) seems to take more cpu power than the game itself
22:45:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> what kind of soundcard does not have hardware midi?
22:45:41  <Ihmemies> what kind of cheap soundcard has good hardware midi?
22:45:49  <Ihmemies> at least not audigy 2 :D
22:46:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... you probably have a point;)
22:47:27  <Ihmemies> these ttd midis sound great with that yamaha player... :D
22:47:35  <Sacro> i got an audigy 1 :(
22:47:39  <XeryusTC> my audigy 2 has a hardware player iirc
22:47:43  <izhirahider> They sound great with anything :)
22:47:47  <Ihmemies> :(
22:48:20  <Sacro> hmm
22:48:51  <XeryusTC> wmplayer takes 0% cpu when playing midi
22:51:27  <orudge> Audigy 2 has hardware MIDI? Hmm, my ZS seems to still use the DirectMusic synthesizer, but there may be some option somewhere that needs changing
22:51:42  <orudge> Ah, wait, here
22:51:47  <orudge> this seems to sound different, anyway
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22:53:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah... MIDI sound is heavily depending on synthesizer
22:54:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> because midi is basically just storing instrument number, tone height and note length
22:54:50  <Ihmemies> yep :/
22:54:55  <Ihmemies> and that's why they are so small ;)
22:54:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> what sound comes out is depending on what sample is used locally
22:55:02  <Sacro> orudge: make sure you install decent soundfonts
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22:55:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> my SB AWE32 had great midi sounds ;)
22:55:48  <Sacro> ah well, nn all
22:55:49  *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-83-100-161-93.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [" HydraIRC -> <- IRC for those that like to be different"]
22:55:59  * orudge loved his old ESS AudioDrive 1688
22:56:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> only it is ISA, so no use in a modern computer ;)
22:56:06  <orudge> or 1668. Whichever it was.
22:56:13  * XeryusTC hugs his audigy 2 value
22:56:14  <orudge> anyway
22:56:16  * orudge must work
22:57:42  <Ihmemies> soundfonts? :O
23:00:27  <XeryusTC> it's almost 01:02:30 04-05-06 :)
23:00:44  <XeryusTC> 30=03
23:01:53  <Ihmemies> .. I recorded 5 one minute clips to a mp3 file... listen to that and then say some directmushit shit sounds good ;) .. or what I know.. nothing :|
23:02:01  <black_Nightmare> *sigh loudly* .. not so easy with many files sometimes (and many sites lol) ... managed to get like 8+ newgrf's loaded fully now :p .. still trying work on what could be the problem with 2 of them tho
23:02:20  <black_Nightmare>   /sorry if I talk out loud/
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23:03:10  <Ihmemies> duh
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23:06:22  <orudge> Ihmemies:
23:06:27  <orudge> specifically, the high quality stuff at the bottom
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23:16:32  <XeryusTC> does someone know at which GMT time Lost is aired?
23:20:00  *** RichK67 [n=RichK67@] has joined #openttd
23:20:36  <RichK67> hi all
23:21:05  <black_Nightmare> hey richk....
23:21:05  <glx> hey RichK67
23:21:16  <black_Nightmare> I have the mini_IN build and running on the one server that had it too....
23:21:21  <black_Nightmare> I really like your different airports...
23:21:24  <glx> RichK67: pbs in IN is dead for now
23:21:25  <black_Nightmare> using 2 types of them now :-D
23:21:27  <RichK67> ty
23:21:57  <black_Nightmare> richk...the intercontenional one is really HUGE but then..whee.. 4 runaways so can land many jumbo planes at similar time I guess :p
23:22:01  <RichK67> i love the commuter - and the intercontinental is just awesome at full capacity
23:22:08  <orudge> XeryusTC: in the US?
23:22:09  <black_Nightmare> commuter?....
23:22:10  <orudge> Around 3am, I think.
23:22:14  <orudge> but I may be wrong.
23:22:17  <XeryusTC> orudge: yes, this night
23:22:22  <black_Nightmare> ohh I see it now
23:22:32  * orudge usually just gets it in the morning
23:22:48  * XeryusTC too
23:22:50  <RichK67> Commuter airport - small, 4x5 :)   but handles more aircraft faster than the city, and nearly as good as metro
23:23:09  <black_Nightmare> richk...I noticed it now..yeah I like it
23:23:24  <black_Nightmare> the size of a small airport with the big-plane support of a city airport in a way I guess?
23:23:28  <RichK67> are you using the UKRS with it?
23:23:50  <black_Nightmare> richk...the server only uses the plain standard sets... *sigh* .. never knew how a bit boring this was lol
23:23:57  <RichK67> except it is a SMALL airport - and big jets dont like it (crash hint)
23:24:31  <black_Nightmare> o0o :p
23:24:47  <RichK67> my other patch in there - the Speed Signs, works really well for UKRS - you can divert slow freight away from your fast mainlines
23:25:39  <RichK67> oh, and TerraGenesis Perlin too :)      i may not have time to build the new gui before my holiday, but otherwise, it will be in 0.5.0 i hope
23:25:56  <black_Nightmare> yeah richk.. seperating the 72/88km/h freight wagons from the unlimited-speed passenger cars (which may have as well as been hauled by a 104+km/h engine or even the Mallard --- right?
23:26:17  <black_Nightmare> [that is for 2-axle cars)
23:26:18  <RichK67> yup - works great on it
23:26:32  <black_Nightmare> yeah...well this server -- hm I wonder who actually owns it :p
23:26:45  * XeryusTC teases orudge with Weird Al ;)
23:28:37  <orudge> Woo, Weird al
23:28:54  <orudge> Ooh, new Ask Al
23:29:17  <black_Nightmare> anyway richk...I'm a bit busy working on my own openttd folder (latest nightly build in it) with several custom grf's
23:29:23  <black_Nightmare> and trying figure...why 2 aren't working
23:29:26  <black_Nightmare> otherwise thats all I'm doing
23:29:27  <black_Nightmare> you?
23:30:13  <RichK67> not a lot - im going on holiday for 2 weeks at 3am Fri, and had to sort out some work and some shopping tonite... so no dev work :(   Celestar wont be happy
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23:30:34  <orudge> Ooh, the new Weird Al album should be out sometime after June
23:30:37  <XeryusTC> orudge: what is ask al? i guess that it involves wierd al but it still leaves me no clue
23:30:43  <RichK67> and now im too tired to think straight
23:31:09  <XeryusTC> ah, the weird al site says something :)
23:31:14  <RichK67> im gonna go bath... maybe water will shake my brain cells loose ;)
23:31:16  <RichK67> bbl
23:31:34  <orudge>
23:31:34  <orudge> -> ask al
23:31:35  *** RichK67 is now known as RichK67|afk
23:32:09  <XeryusTC> yea, im reading
23:32:17  <black_Nightmare> nice richk .. hope your holiday is fun for you
23:32:26  <XeryusTC> it says that the album doesnt come out at the 27th of june anymore :(
23:33:23  <black_Nightmare> quick question..there like a site that explain each option in the openttd file....some I'm not able to make head of but would like to know what they were for if I could help it
23:33:49  <black_Nightmare> kinda nice that I can set odd/unusual number on some of the values by editting it manually (like eg coloured newspaper is in 1997 hehe)
23:34:32  <glx> black_Nightmare: try
23:34:45  <glx>
23:37:38  <black_Nightmare> ah ok found it...ty I didn't think of the wiki for a second there glx :-)
23:44:31  <black_Nightmare> hmm newpathfinding
23:48:02  <black_Nightmare> heh .. set 'lost trains' to 260 days...
23:48:26  <black_Nightmare> I always hated these messages coming up a lot when I'm trying to use a 72km/h train over very long distance [coal mind you]
23:50:34  <XeryusTC> black_Nightmare: try to change the settings
23:51:05  <black_Nightmare> already did...
23:51:14  <black_Nightmare> looking at the last few before I wrap up with the wiki page
23:51:45  *** RichK67|afk is now known as RichK67
23:53:49  <black_Nightmare> hmmm setting signal waitout period...nice
23:55:38  <black_Nightmare> any guessing what this might be? 'dist_local_authority ='
23:55:45  <black_Nightmare> wiki has no entry on that
23:57:51  <RichK67> its the maximum distance that a towns ownership area extends... beyond that terrain is free :)
23:58:22  <RichK67> ok, terraforming isnt, but you can buy the land for nowt
23:59:23  <RichK67> sorry - its not free, its just not owned
23:59:34  <RichK67> so terraforming it doesnt hurt any ratings
23:59:56  <black_Nightmare> ot but any of you from serbian or near there?

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