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Log for #openttd on 9th May 2006:
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00:08:38  <Born_Acorn> OTTD rewrite in java!
00:08:52  * Born_Acorn alerts the press
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05:00:57  <roboman> hello
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05:42:24  * Vornicus blings
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06:39:30  <Celestar> back
06:39:42  <Celestar> Darkvater: peter1138 ping
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06:39:50  <peter1138> pong
06:39:56  <peter1138> fscking thing
06:40:12  <peter1138>  setting using_dma to 1 (on)
06:40:12  <peter1138>  HDIO_SET_DMA failed: Operation not permitted
06:40:12  <peter1138>  using_dma    =  0 (off)
06:40:14  <Tobin> A big hello to you too...
06:40:16  <Tobin> :)
06:40:17  <peter1138> == sloooow
06:41:18  <MiHaMiX> morning
06:41:50  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: are you root?
06:42:04  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: did you tried setting the 32bit io flag to 1?
06:42:17  <peter1138> yes and yes
06:42:45  <Celestar> peter1138: bad cable
06:44:15  <Celestar> k guys.
06:44:28  <Celestar> any objections to adding the new airports?
06:44:38  <Fujitsu> Celestar, sounds like a good idea...
06:44:39  <MiHaMiX> Celestar: no, no bjection
06:45:24  <Tobin> New airports, exciting.
06:45:40  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: a few weeks ago I noticed that writing a DVD generally slowed down my desktop machine.. I discovered, that neither the 32bit IO nor the using_dma flag was set to 1...
06:46:06  <Tobin> Has anyone started a thread about the arbitrary stuff under bidges work?
06:46:09  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: after setting them to 1, DVD burning become a normal task, and no longer slows down my box
06:46:20  <MiHaMiX> Tobin: you mean, houses?
06:46:27  <peter1138> MiHaMiX: i know what they do :)
06:46:37  <MiHaMiX> Tobin: I mean, under bridge
06:46:40  <Celestar> now I just need Darkvater's go ;)
06:47:06  <Tobin> MiHaMiX: What? No I mean this: http://hazy.stupor.org/stuff/bridge-over-bridge.png and http://hazy.stupor.org/stuff/bridge-over-station-2.png
06:47:06  <peter1138> personally i never use airports, so i don't care ;p
06:47:31  <MiHaMiX> Tobin: cool :)
06:47:41  <Tobin> I usually use a few in multiplayer games because there is very little lamers can do to mess them up.
06:48:25  <MiHaMiX> Tobin: http://hazy.stupor.org/stuff/bridge-over-station-2.png <--cool :)
06:48:42  <Tobin> MiHaMiX: The bridges over stations stuff is "on hold" though (until the devs decide upon its future).
06:49:21  <MiHaMiX> Tobin: i like it :)
06:49:33  <MiHaMiX> Tobin: what is the price of it? how many extra bits?
06:49:42  <Tobin> MiHaMiX: I have no idea.
06:49:47  <MiHaMiX> Tobin: ahh
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06:52:36  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4786 /trunk/newgrf_station.c: - Newstations: in GetPlatformInfo() ensure negative values are only four bits
06:53:56  <Tobin> MiHaMiX: Ask the devs, Celestar and Tron had the most to do with it IIRC.
06:54:59  <MiHaMiX> mm, I should commit the changes done on languages
06:56:13  <CIA-3> miham * r4787 /trunk/lang/ (8 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
06:56:13  <CIA-3> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-05-09 08:55:14
06:56:13  <CIA-3> czech - 6 fixed by Hadez (6)
06:56:13  <CIA-3> german - 3 fixed by Neonox (3)
06:56:13  <CIA-3> hungarian - 3 fixed by miham (3)
06:56:14  <CIA-3> lithuanian - 3 fixed, 4 changed by Plyta (7)
06:56:16  <CIA-3> polish - 3 fixed, 3 changed by meush (6)
06:56:25  <MiHaMiX> portuguese - 3 fixed by izhirahider (3)
06:56:25  <MiHaMiX> slovenian  - 34 fixed by Sonicelo (34)
06:56:25  <MiHaMiX> turkish    - 2 fixed by jnmbk (2)
06:59:38  <MiHaMiX> 6305 bad strings out of 70173 strings (2599 strings / language)
06:59:59  <MiHaMiX> 91%
06:59:59  <Celestar> MiHaMiX: any page with the stats?
07:00:04  <MiHaMiX> Celestar: there is
07:00:09  <MiHaMiX> http://translator2.openttd.org/languages/GlobalStat
07:00:40  <MiHaMiX> Celestar: but it's a known.. if you visit the main page of Translator2, you can find it in the menu
07:01:03  <Rubidium> Celestar: peter1138: there is some inconsistency in naming of map accessors/enums: RoadType vs RailTileType (there is a RailType, so I suggest RoadTileType) and RAILTYPE_* for RailTypes, RAIL_TYPE_ for RailTileTypes and ROAD_ for RoadTypes; I suggest either: RAIL_TYPE_* -> RAIL_* or ROAD_* -> ROAD_TYPE_*. What is your opinion on this?
07:02:29  <Celestar> er what? slowly again :P
07:02:59  <Celestar> I agree on RoadType => RoadTileType
07:03:20  <Tron> ROAD_TILE_{NORMAL,CROSSING,DEPOT}
07:03:31  <Tron> RAIL_TILE_{NORMAL,SINGALS,DEPOT_WAYPOINT}
07:03:58  <Rubidium> ok, I'll cook up a diff :), but first do some studying :)
07:05:49  <peter1138> woosh
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07:26:05  <Tobin> peter1138: Is 2cc going to be committed in the coming weeks?
07:29:44  <Prof_Frink> peter1138! 2cc!
07:29:59  <peter1138> possibly
07:30:06  <Prof_Frink> peter1138! ${ttdpatchfeature}!
07:32:38  <Celestar> Darkvater: ping
07:34:51  <roboman> where can i find out more about youre 2cc stuff peter
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07:40:55  <Celestar> Dobre Rano KUDr
07:41:07  <KUDr> gm :)
07:41:25  <KUDr> you know cz very well!
07:43:34  <Celestar> I understand about 50% of a normal conversation
07:45:06  <Hackykid> anyone happen to know a command line tool that allows me to forward ports on a upnp-enabled router?
07:47:07  * Celestar marks Jun 9 CLEARLY in his calendar.
07:48:37  <Celestar> Hackykid: feel like doing some testing (totally unrelated to bridges this time)?
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07:49:12  <Hackykid> maybe later
07:49:23  * Fujitsu wonders what needs testing.
07:49:30  <Celestar> or anyone else for that matter: I need testing: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/100
07:50:11  * Fujitsu tests.
07:51:24  <Fujitsu> Looks good...
07:51:30  <Celestar> back in 5
07:51:37  <Fujitsu> K
07:51:49  <Celestar> do some testing meanwhile plz ;)
07:52:00  <Fujitsu> Shall do.
07:53:41  <KUDr> Celestar: can you please look when i quit and what was the quit message from me and KUDr_wrk?
07:54:14  <KUDr> i had some magic shutdown...
07:55:00  <Celestar> 08:00 -!- KUDr [i=KUDr@mazanec1.netbox.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
07:55:44  <KUDr> now is 9:55?
07:55:49  <Celestar> I can't find _wrk to time out
07:55:52  <Celestar> Tue May  9 09:59:17 CEST 2006
07:56:06  <KUDr> ok thanks
07:57:17  <Celestar> np np
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07:58:40  <peter1138> 8:59
07:58:41  <peter1138> oops
07:58:48  <peter1138> i should be at work ^^
07:58:57  <Celestar> ^^
07:59:21  <Celestar> peter1138: when you're at work, wanna read through the station list diff?
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08:00:26  <Fujitsu> I've looked through most of it, looks great!
08:00:30  <Fujitsu> (and works great)
08:00:38  <Celestar> Fujitsu: Hackykid: Tobin: any more crashes concerning the bridge stuff?
08:00:48  <Celestar> Fujitsu: nice, I commit sometime today.
08:01:00  <Fujitsu> Celestar, I haven't tested bridges much today.
08:01:16  <Fujitsu> But the stations stuff is great, and the diff doesn't look too destructive.
08:01:24  <Celestar> ^^
08:02:23  <Rubidium> Ok, if've finished the diffs for RoadType->RoadTileType + ROAD_TILE_{..} and for RAIL_TILE_{..}: http://rubidium.student.utwente.nl/openttd/roadtile.diff and http://rubidium.student.utwente.nl/openttd/railtile.diff <- any comments on those two diffs?
08:02:24  * roboman leaves
08:02:37  <Celestar> Rubidium: will read
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08:03:21  <Celestar> :o
08:03:26  <Celestar> vi can open URLs directly
08:04:04  <Celestar> Rubidium: both diffs make sense to me.
08:05:00  <Fujitsu> Road looks good...
08:05:28  <Fujitsu> No real changes, of course... As long as those are all the references, I'd say they're fine.
08:06:47  <Fujitsu> Any newer bridge patches (since 1200 UTC yesterday?
08:06:51  <Fujitsu> *)?
08:06:56  <Celestar> Fujitsu: looking ;)
08:07:29  <Celestar> I have one that is 15:03 UTC, but I'm not sure how much has changed.
08:07:43  <Celestar> but you can give it a shot.
08:07:48  <Fujitsu> OK.
08:07:50  <Fujitsu> Where is it?
08:07:50  <Celestar> I hope most quirks are ironed out meanwhile
08:07:54  <Fujitsu> Good.
08:07:56  <Celestar> http://www.fvfischer.de/ottd/bridgesource.tar.gz
08:08:10  <Celestar> well, there are still quite a bunch of problems/bugs in it I presume
08:08:20  * Fujitsu shall give himself loads of money, and build loads and loads of odd bridge-combinations.
08:09:39  * Fujitsu creates high-density junctions with odd track/bridge combinations, and sends loads of trains through them...
08:10:13  <Celestar> bah
08:10:15  <Celestar> still problems
08:10:41  <Fujitsu> ?
08:10:52  <Celestar> with some bridge combos you can build
08:10:56  * Celestar goes fixing
08:11:06  <Rubidium> shall I commit the {road|rail}tile diffs, or does any of the devs want to do that?
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08:11:41  <Celestar> Rubidium: you have my go.
08:12:26  * Fujitsu agrees, although his vote doesn't count.
08:14:19  <peter1138> backness
08:14:29  <peter1138> only "a bit" late ;)
08:15:04  * Fujitsu curses that he can't build a bridge over this town.
08:16:14  <peter1138> heh
08:17:35  <Celestar> peter1138: you ok with Rubidium's diffs?
08:17:38  <CIA-3> rubidium * r4788 /trunk/ (15 files in 2 dirs): - Codechange: RAILTYPE_{NORMAL,ELECTRIC,...} and RAIL_TYPE_{NORMAL,SIGNAL,...} have nearly the same name, rename RAIL_TYPE_* to RAIL_TILE_* of extra clarity
08:18:58  <Fujitsu> Too late :P
08:19:06  <Celestar> yeah (=
08:19:24  <Fujitsu> That should be `for extra clarity'...
08:19:24  <peter1138> :-)
08:19:43  <Celestar> BAAAHH
08:19:51  <Rubidium> well, blame it on not being a native speaker :)
08:19:53  <peter1138> conflicts? :p
08:20:08  <Celestar> I want a function that gives me the a Height of a friggen bridge.
08:20:09  <peter1138> *sigh*
08:20:12  <peter1138> i hate sales people
08:20:16  <Fujitsu> Hmm.
08:20:20  <peter1138> i have to write a product called "eCheq" :(
08:20:26  * Fujitsu kicks the concrete bridge he just built.
08:20:33  <Fujitsu> This train keeps cutting through it.
08:20:39  <Fujitsu> Silly Ginzus being too tall.
08:24:42  <peter1138> heh
08:24:43  <Celestar> note to self.
08:24:53  <Celestar> returning no value in a function is of little help
08:25:00  <peter1138> :D
08:25:04  <Fujitsu> Heheheh
08:25:17  <peter1138> or just giving the value, as i did by mistake
08:25:34  <CIA-3> rubidium * r4789 /trunk/ (11 files in 3 dirs): - Codechange: rename RoadType to RoadTileType and ROAD_{NORMAL,CROSSING,DEPOT} to ROAD_TILE_* for consistency
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08:28:34  <Fujitsu> Hmm.
08:30:47  <peter1138> ROAD_TYPE_ROAD, ROAD_TYPE_TRAM
08:30:56  <peter1138> clearly i need to do that ;p
08:30:59  <peter1138> or is it ROADTYPE
08:31:00  <peter1138> hm
08:31:04  <Rubidium> ROADTYPE :)
08:31:11  <Rubidium> if you want to be consistent :)
08:32:27  <Vornicus> ROADCHEESE
08:32:44  <Fujitsu> Hahahh
08:32:58  <Fujitsu> Any reason for disallowing bridges over other buildings? :(
08:33:04  <peter1138> RAILTYPE_3RDRAIL
08:33:17  <Fujitsu> Diiner.
08:33:19  <Rubidium> ROADTYPE_CATENARY <- only allowed if there is at least one of: ROADTYPE_ROAD, ROADTYPE_TRAM :)
08:33:23  <Fujitsu> peter1138, lol.
08:34:02  <peter1138> Rubidium: hmm, 9 bits needed for that
08:34:09  <peter1138> map bits, that is
08:34:18  <peter1138> 4 bits for road, 4 bits for tram, 1 bit for catenary
08:34:36  <Rubidium> no, 4 for catenary too :)
08:34:40  <peter1138> though in ttdp, catenary is not separate from tram
08:35:04  <Rubidium> so, you can have a bend in the catenary, while both the tram tracks and/or the road have a junction
08:35:16  <peter1138> it that necessary?
08:35:22  <Rubidium> yes, but we want trolley busses too :)
08:35:35  <peter1138> i suppose it would reduce special casing
08:35:52  <peter1138> hmm
08:35:57  <peter1138> but a lot of map
08:36:25  * Celestar explodes
08:39:18  * Zr40_ collects Celestar's pieces
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09:04:55  * Fujitsu reports rendering error.
09:04:59  <Fujitsu> (In bridges)
09:05:11  <Fujitsu> Hmm.
09:05:19  <Fujitsu> It's just fixed itself!
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09:05:45  <Fujitsu> Ahh.
09:05:58  <Fujitsu> A different (but very similar) one just appeared.
09:06:39  <peter1138> wouldn't bother
09:06:57  <Fujitsu> ?
09:07:18  <peter1138> oh, standard bridges?
09:07:20  <peter1138> hmm
09:07:30  <peter1138> ignore me
09:07:51  * valhallasw types /ignore peter1138
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09:08:47  <Fujitsu> Not standard bridges.
09:09:08  <peter1138> hmm
09:09:12  <peter1138> combroad?
09:09:42  <Fujitsu> ...?
09:10:34  <peter1138> or something else
09:10:49  <Fujitsu> Combroad!?
09:11:01  * Celestar goes writing an own BridgeHeight function. this is driving me nuts.
09:11:03  <valhallasw> COMRADE!
09:12:04  <Fujitsu> Celestar, heheh
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09:15:37  <Celestar> ok BETTER
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09:27:06  <Fujitsu> Evening, Tron.
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09:30:49  <Celestar> hm ..
09:30:52  <Sacro> morning all
09:31:04  <Celestar> can I set something like a umask for a certain directory
09:31:19  <Sacro> Celestar: chmod
09:31:28  <Celestar> like when $USER writes $FILE to /pub/foo, file is automatically chmodded to 666?
09:31:33  <Celestar> Sacro: automagically
09:31:55  <Sacro> isnt that chmod 1777 ?
09:32:13  <Noldo> Celestar: no
09:32:37  <Noldo> Celestar: it is a properity of the process doing the creating
09:33:04  <Celestar> hm...
09:33:10  <Noldo> Celestar: are you playing with svn and svn+ssh:// of file:// ?
09:33:15  <Celestar> nah.
09:33:19  <Celestar> just NFS mounts.
09:33:26  <Noldo> ok
09:33:31  <Celestar> hm ..
09:33:37  <Noldo> I had a similar problem with those
09:33:44  <Celestar> I'm looking for a GODDAMN review of an X1400 :S
09:34:18  <Noldo> don' remember exactly what sticky bit does though
09:34:43  <Sacro> Noldo: files can only be deleted by the owner
09:35:02  <Sacro> for /tmp mainly
09:36:09  <Noldo> ah
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09:41:43  <Sacro> Celestar: best idea is to write a script that does it, and make it world executatable, but not writeable
09:42:04  <Celestar> Sacro: setfacl seems to do it allright (=
09:42:51  <Sacro> Celestar: that command looks quite useful
09:44:27  <Celestar> it is.
09:44:55  <Fujitsu> ACLs are the best thing since sliced bread.
09:45:01  <Fujitsu> Other than newstations and betterbridges
09:45:06  <Celestar> (=
09:45:14  <Celestar> Fujitsu: new tarball for you (=
09:45:18  <Fujitsu> I couldn't live without them...
09:45:23  <Fujitsu> OK, Celestar.
09:45:35  * Fujitsu worships Celestar, and tests as much as possible.
09:45:55  <Celestar> please try to rape the stuff as much as possible.
09:46:01  <Celestar> report any anomlies you find.
09:46:02  <Fujitsu> Celestar, I shall.
09:46:15  <Fujitsu> What are some things that have been known to cause issues in the past?
09:46:26  <Fujitsu> Same place?
09:46:45  <Celestar> yes same place
09:47:04  <Fujitsu> OK.
09:47:06  <Celestar> main issue yesterday was what you can build under a bridge (also othe bridges), and what stuff you can build a bridge over
09:47:46  <Fujitsu> OK.
09:48:02  <Fujitsu> Shouldn't be able to build them over other buildings?
09:48:42  <Fujitsu> Why aren't any of these committed?
09:49:13  <Celestar> currently building over other buildings (tonws depots is not yet possible)
09:49:36  <Fujitsu> tonws?
09:49:50  <Celestar> towns
09:49:55  <Celestar> houses ...
09:50:08  <Fujitsu> Ahh.
09:50:09  <Fujitsu> OK.
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09:56:13  <CIA-3> tron * r4790 /trunk/ (6 files): Remove slope magic from EnsureNoVehicleZ() and rename it to EnsureNoVehicleOnGround() to make more clear what it does
09:56:31  <Celestar> the AI is doing faulty things
09:56:40  <Fujitsu> Which?
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09:57:01  <Celestar> http://www.fvfischer.de/ottd/ai.png
09:57:27  <Fujitsu> Damnit.
09:57:35  <valhallasw> nice.
09:57:37  <Fujitsu> I can't plant trees under bridges :(
09:58:01  <Tron> the tree graphics are way too high for this
09:58:11  <Fujitsu> Heheh
09:58:31  <Celestar> http://www.fvfischer.de/ottd/ai0.png <= uh huh
09:59:30  <Fujitsu> The AI did that!?
09:59:45  <Celestar> yeah sure.
09:59:51  <valhallasw> did someone buy the original AI code?
10:00:54  <Celestar> ok guys
10:00:55  <Celestar> me->food
10:01:47  <Celestar> back in 1 hour or more
10:01:56  <Fujitsu> Tunnels under bridges work...
10:01:59  <Fujitsu> Bye, Celestar.
10:02:02  <Sacro> Celestar: greedy
10:02:09  <Fujitsu> I'm surprised that tunnel+bridge works :P
10:02:56  <Sacro> lol
10:03:45  <Celestar> keep me posted
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10:10:59  <valhallasw> what does the pathfinder use to build a path?
10:11:00  <valhallasw> A*?
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10:35:16  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4791 /trunk/road.h: - Codechange: Mark road bits as unsigned. Fixes warning with older gcc versions.
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10:45:26  <peter1138> fucking signed/unsigned warnings
10:45:42  <peter1138> oh well, if i stick to just int it all works fine
10:48:39  <Sacro> hehe
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10:51:19  <peter1138> oh, that SUCKS
10:51:40  <peter1138> w->vscroll.pos is a uint16
10:51:46  <peter1138> w->vscroll.cap is a uint16
10:51:49  <peter1138> i is a uint
10:52:10  <peter1138> w->vscroll.pos + w->vscroll.cap is silently promoted to int
10:52:42  <peter1138> ah, if i is uint16 it's ok
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11:11:14  <vondel> does the brake wagon (available in some grf) do something, or is it purely cosmetical ?
11:14:38  <roboman> cosmetic
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11:25:21  <Tobin> Celestar: Are you committing your updated stuff-under-bridges stuff to the bridge branch soon? I'd like to wait until it's imminent before showing off some of the things you can do with it on the forums.
11:26:16  <roboman> bye
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11:27:25  <KUDr_wrk> http://www.bash.org/?287414
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11:29:06  <vondel> almost enough points to be an bash-quote-id :)
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11:30:41  <Vornicus> people keep describing OpenTTD as "reverse engineered".  What on earth are they talking about?
11:31:09  <Fujitsu> Vornicus, it was sort-of decompiled.
11:31:21  <Vornicus> sort-of?
11:31:33  <Vornicus> In what sense?
11:31:47  <Zr40> heh, ttdpatch is even worse ;)
11:31:54  <Tron> "sort-of" is a term that means "i have no clue what i'm talking about"
11:32:13  <Vornicus> I see.
11:32:25  <Vornicus> Tron, help me out here.  What on earth are they talking about?
11:32:35  <peter1138> reverse engineered from ttd
11:32:38  <peter1138> simple, n'est pas?
11:32:56  <Fujitsu> Decompilation is incredibly difficult, so I doubt what I've read was quite true.
11:33:23  <Noldo> Vornicus: lubbe took the binary code of ttd, studied it and managed to write the C code that compiles into the same binary
11:33:28  <Noldo> *ludde
11:33:44  <Tron> er, no
11:34:02  <Tron> nobody wants to read x86 machine code
11:34:23  <Tron> it was disassembled
11:34:30  <Noldo> Tron: it's not that relevant what tools he used
11:34:46  <Fujitsu> Yeah, reading machine code isn't nice.
11:34:52  <Fujitsu> Dissassembly I can handle.
11:34:56  <Fujitsu> But not machine code :)
11:35:03  <Tron> and many annotations about data structures and functions came from the infamous IDA database about TTD
11:35:14  <Vornicus> so, wait
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11:35:44  <Vornicus> do you mean to tell me that OpenTTD never actually got the original source code of TTD?
11:35:51  <Fujitsu> Of course not!
11:35:59  <Fujitsu> Where would people get /that/!?
11:36:04  <Tron> Noldo: also i doubt that in any point in time it "compile[d] into the same binary"
11:36:16  <Fujitsu> Tron, I was thinking the same thing.
11:36:20  <Tron> Vornicus: TTD was never written in C
11:36:35  <Vornicus> ....oh
11:36:40  <Fujitsu> I haven't reverse-engineered anything quite as big as TTD before, but I've done some small things.
11:37:31  <Fujitsu> Tron, you sure it wasn't?
11:37:47  <Fujitsu> I have never seen any confirmation of this fact, and I haven't looked into it much myself.
11:37:55  <Vornicus> ...so how did OTTD manage to not get sued?
11:38:11  <Tron> Fujitsu: in an interview Chris Sawyer stated this
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11:38:46  <Fujitsu> Triffid_Hunter, ahh. Thanks :)
11:38:51  <Fujitsu> Must have been a nightmare.
11:39:00  <Fujitsu> Oops.
11:39:05  <Fujitsu> Tron, that should have been.
11:39:12  <Fujitsu> Silly autocompletion.
11:39:26  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4792 /trunk/rail_gui.c: - Codechange: change a uint to a uint16 to avoid a signed/unsigned warning from some compilers.
11:41:09  <peter1138> (promoting uint16s to ints indeed)
11:41:58  <ledow> To be honest, seeing as you NEED the original TTD files to make it run, it's barely a legal grey area... more likely will be problems coming from linking TO the original TTD files on people's websites *cough* orudge *cough*
11:42:00  <Noldo> Vornicus: The rights are owned my something that hasn't cared enough
11:42:53  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4793 /trunk/gfx.c: - Replace list of magic numbers (characters that don't exist) with a call to SpriteExists(), when building the character width cache.
11:43:04  <Tron> ledow: it's just graphics, which can be replaced if anybody invests the time to do so. there's no executable code in the used files
11:43:24  <Tron> also ottd doesn't share a single line of source code with ttd and never has
11:43:36  <peter1138> just bits happen to look very similar :)
11:43:49  <ledow> Tron: Yep... but it's still copyrighted graphics in those files.  You can "get around" the copyright on the executable by reverseengineering in a clean-room manner but the original graphics are still copyright
11:44:18  <Tron> feel free to replace all graphics
11:44:46  <ledow> I don't need to - I own several (far too many) copies of the original game, still in it's wrapping.
11:45:37  <ledow> I doubt it will ever be a problem, very few people care BUT technically the TTD graphics, sound and original .exe's are still copyright
11:46:03  <Noldo> ledow: too few people care :(
11:47:30  <ledow> Linking to a set of zip files for the original game/graphics/sounds is quite silly - if a copyright owner ever pops up wanting to be stroppy, they can have you in court for that.
11:47:30  <peter1138> i do find it amusing that the ttdpatch opinion is that patching the exe is fine, but using reverse engineered code isn't
11:48:18  <Fujitsu> peter1138, I do find that /incredibly/ amusing.
11:48:45  <ledow> And consdering the TTD graphics were not done by Chris Sawyer but by someone who is a graphics artist by profession ( I saw the website somewhere), they may just decide to take it more seriously if they find out.
11:49:10  <Tron> peter1138: that comes from the interesting - and if you think 5 seconds about it totally silly - opinion that there's a difference to alter something on a hard disk than to alter something in RAM
11:49:38  <Vornicus> what, did Chris Sawyer give this project his blessing or something?
11:49:38  <Fujitsu> No, it's /so/ different, Tron. :roll:
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11:50:06  <Tron> Fujitsu: did you forget a pair of irony tags?
11:50:27  <Fujitsu> Probably.
11:50:34  * Fujitsu locates some and clips them onto the ends.
11:50:39  <peter1138> :)
11:50:58  <ledow> http://www.chrissawyer.com/faq2.htm <- stuff is still copyright.   http://www.pixelswithpings.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/index.htm <- website of person who did the graphics for ttd.
11:51:54  <Fujitsu> Hmm.
11:52:03  <Fujitsu> Is it possible to increase the limits of number of vehicles or stations in Transport Tycoon?
11:52:03  <Fujitsu> Not without re-compiling the game, as most of the data space used for objects is defined at compile time. Anyway, some of the data pointers are limited to a certain number of bits, so for example the station limit cannot be increased without extensive work on other parts of the game to handle larger station pointers. Doing any of this would require a lot of work, and would make saved games completely incompatible with exist
11:52:03  <Fujitsu> ing versions.
11:52:11  <Fujitsu> Is that just an oversimplification?
11:52:21  <Fujitsu> Or was it originally written in C (or something else)?
11:52:26  <Fujitsu> Who knows.
11:52:32  <Noldo> ledow: the artist has propably sold the right so the big corporation that's always behind game projects
11:53:07  <ledow> Noldo: Yeah, maybe, but WE DON'T KNOW.  And if they did, then THEY own the copyrights.  Either way linking to the original files is leading yourself into trouble.
11:54:03  * Celestar is back
11:54:06  <Celestar> for like 3 minutes
11:54:07  <ledow> Those with legitimate copies of the game have little to ffear from using OpenTTD but those who just download the necessary files from the links provided are liable to trouble.
11:54:47  <Noldo> ledow: dependening on the copyright laws in the specific country
11:55:04  <ln-> original TTD was written in asm.
11:55:22  <Tron> feel free to replace all the 5383 sprites and shut up
11:55:26  <ledow> Noldo: Obviosuly... But then most countries are signed in to respect international copyrights.
11:55:38  <Celestar> from a certain point on, the AI seems not to build any more vehicles
11:55:46  <ledow> Tron: Stop taking it so personally...
11:55:53  <peter1138> Celestar: in trunk?
11:56:12  <Tron> i'm not taking it personally, i have no idea how you came to that conclusion
11:56:37  <Celestar> peter1138: dunno, it just seems that 7 AI don't manage to fill a 1024k map, no matter how much time you give em
11:57:11  <peter1138> hm
11:57:37  <Noldo> ledow: there is nothing new in what you say
11:57:50  <ln-> even though OTTD never used the source code of TTD, it still used (and still uses?) quite much code that is taken directly from the TTD exe.
11:58:23  <ln-> <simulated_Tron> end of discussion! shut up!
11:58:46  <ledow> Noldo: No, but I've often seen pointers in forums and IRC that point people directly to the data... that's asking for trouble.
11:58:47  <Vornicus> 5383 sprites?
11:58:54  <Vornicus> daaaaamn
11:58:58  <Noldo> ledow: ofcource they are
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11:59:29  <Vornicus>
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11:59:59  <ln-> end of discussion. -> #openttd.legal
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12:03:59  <ln-> oho, ei kai Noldoakin potkittu?
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12:04:28  * Vornicus adds, actually, finds that that's really not that absurd a number.  8 sprites for each train and car, 19 for each terrain type, something like 80 for each rail type and each terrain that rail can be built on, 20ish for each road development level and each terrain /that/ can be built on...
12:05:01  <Brianetta> /me wonders what his / character is now...
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12:05:24  <Brianetta> +echo test
12:05:27  <Brianetta> \echo test
12:05:30  <Brianetta> /echo test
12:05:36  <Brianetta> -echo test
12:05:39  <Tron> could you do that somewhere else?
12:05:45  <Brianetta> aha
12:05:47  * Brianetta finds it
12:06:02  <Brianetta> Tron: No, because I couldn't change channels until I found it
12:06:26  <Vornicus> what client?  and what character?
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12:06:45  <Noldo> Vornicus: I would be quite happy to play with ugly but free graphics
12:07:02  <black_Nightmare> just curious but whats with the idea of 't' key not being for Transparent?
12:07:21  <Brianetta> black_Nightmare: That's x
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12:07:37  <Vornicus> Noldo: I wouldn't be, so much, but that's because I've written some stuff that makes for shiny graphics.
12:08:30  <Vornicus> However, I was mainly commenting that it sounded like a barking mad count.  Until I actually did the math
12:15:10  <black_Nightmare> brianetta..yeah but I mean..why isn't it T?
12:15:16  <black_Nightmare> T as in Transparent :p
12:15:49  <black_Nightmare> just curious..thats all
12:15:49  <Prof_Frink> black_Nightmare: to break TTDPatch compatibility
12:15:58  <Noldo> black_Nightmare: its x for X-ray
12:15:59  <peter1138> T = tunnel
12:18:28  <Celestar> boss meeting over
12:18:30  <Celestar> (=
12:18:33  <black_Nightmare> noldo..very funny :p
12:18:41  <CIA-3> celestar * r4794 /branch/bridge/train_cmd.c: [bridge] -Fix: Trains can now be properly reversed on bridges
12:18:47  <black_Nightmare> prof..and even ttdx itself? :p (heh)
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12:25:14  <CIA-3> celestar * r4795 /branch/bridge/ (BUGS clear_cmd.c): [bridge] -Fix: terraforming cannot happen "through" bridges anymore. Also forgot to update the BUGS file in last commit
12:26:38  <peter1138> oh good, you fixed the missing include too
12:28:04  <MiHaMiX> :)
12:28:34  <Brianetta> black_Nightmare: What would you suggest the tunnel key be?
12:28:36  <Fujitsu> Through bridges?
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12:35:20  <CIA-3> celestar * r4796 /branch/bridge/rail_cmd.c: [bridge] Disallow construction of depots under bridges
12:36:12  <Fujitsu> Committing it bit by bit?
12:36:19  <peter1138> tis the only way
12:36:29  <Fujitsu> ?
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12:41:16  <CIA-3> celestar * r4797 /branch/bridge/waypoint.c: [bridge] Disallow construction of waypoints under bridges
12:41:18  <Fujitsu> Goodnight, all.
12:41:34  <izhirahider> Can anyone tell me in what situation appears STR_SELECT_STATION_CLASS_TIP / STR_SELECT_STATION_TYPE_TIP , since you are more into the code and might give me a quicker answer (I am translating it)
12:42:26  <peter1138> it's a tooltip
12:42:55  <peter1138> they are tooltips, even, heh
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12:43:09  <izhirahider> peter1138: how can I trigger it in the game?
12:43:38  <peter1138> right click on the dropdown / listbox in the new custom station builder window
12:44:14  <peter1138> (only appears if you have custom station grfs loaded)
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12:45:28  <Tobin> Has anyone thought about implementing the patch feature that allows terra-forming under existing infrastructure in OpenTTD?
12:45:56  <hylje> thought about it but implementation no
12:46:53  <Eddi|zuHause> we should rather think about implementing proper cliffs
12:47:06  <Eddi|zuHause> than doing more hacks with those foundations
12:47:46  <black_Nightmare> tobin...yeah I've found it very helpful to be able to do limited landscaping under road/rail/building than trying destory then rebuild it
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12:48:34  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause: yes
12:48:59  <Brianetta> Secure <-------------------------------*------> Convenient
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12:49:09  <Brianetta> A quick representation of our IT policy at work
12:49:46  <Tobin> Brianetta: It's like that all over the place.
12:49:52  <black_Nightmare> tobin..you ever been in a place where you want to raise a slope under someone else's track so you could make a tunnel there?
12:50:05  <Brianetta> Tobin: Guest logins, a wedge in the swipe-card door... it makes me sad.
12:50:06  <black_Nightmare> I do and so hence really like that feature.....alone in ttdpatch so far
12:50:28  <Tobin> Brianetta: And when shit hits the fan a new "solution" is brought in rather than fixing the existing systems.
12:50:45  <CIA-3> celestar * r4798 /branch/bridge/road_cmd.c: [bridge] Disallow construction of road depots below a bridge
12:50:47  <black_Nightmare> I agree... sercuity sometimes need to be reviewed instead
12:50:47  * peter1138 ponders a lunch break today
12:50:52  <Brianetta> Tobin: No, we have no money for that.  Instead, I am told to fix it with free software.
12:51:02  <Tobin> Heh, that must be fun.
12:51:08  <Brianetta> I run a LUG.
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12:51:15  <Ayoze> hi all
12:51:20  <Brianetta> My boss assumes that this means I agree with his ideas in this respect.
12:51:25  <peter1138> we don't have any wedges holding our security doors open
12:51:27  <Tobin> Celestar: Should the current bridge branch compile correctly?
12:51:33  <peter1138> but only because we don't have any security doors...
12:51:38  <Ayoze> which sound system uses openttd?
12:51:42  <Tobin> Erm, current as of a few rev ago.
12:51:59  * peter1138 imagines xmms playing through openttd
12:52:06  <Brianetta> peter1138: The wedged door in question is behind me.  Members of staff wander in and start talking at the back of my head with queries that should be logged by phone or intranet - usually while I'm on the phone myself.
12:52:16  <Tobin> Ayoze: What operating system?
12:52:21  <Ayoze> sound system...
12:52:25  <Ayoze> oh, sorry
12:52:27  <Ayoze> over linux, I mean
12:52:28  <Ayoze> hehe
12:52:35  <peter1138> it's sdl
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12:52:35  * Brianetta uses xmms for openttd music
12:52:39  <peter1138> so whatever sdl supports
12:52:51  <peter1138> Ayoze: english grammar doesn't support your construct
12:52:55  <Brianetta> AALib!
12:52:56  <Celestar> Tobin: yes it should
12:53:08  <peter1138> Ayoze: "which sound system does openttd use?" makes sense, though
12:53:16  <Ayoze> yes, sorry :P
12:53:24  <peter1138> just educating ;p
12:53:24  <Tobin> Celestar: Hmm, let me run make clean then.
12:53:46  <Noldo> Brianetta: I wonder how much work it would be to connect the buttons inside openttd to xmms running on the background
12:53:57  <peter1138> Noldo: someone did that once
12:54:01  <Ayoze> so I dont know why I cant hear sounds in openttd, I'm using alsa
12:54:08  <Brianetta> Noldo: I have xmms marked as always on top
12:54:16  <peter1138> by default sdl uses oss, i suspect
12:54:21  <Brianetta> so it's just like the Jazz Jukebox window
12:54:28  <Brianetta> All I need is a TTD Jazz Jukebox skin (:
12:54:31  <peter1138> so you need the alsa-oss compat modules loaded
12:54:36  <Ayoze> ok ok :)
12:54:36  <black_Nightmare> lol brianetta :p
12:54:37  <Noldo> Brianetta: true
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12:55:12  <izhirahider> peter1138: thanks
12:55:52  <izhirahider> this is tricky to translate
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12:56:43  <Tobin> Celestar: http://paste.lisp.org/display/19827
12:57:11  <Ihmemies> uh...
12:57:41  <Ihmemies> so the purpose of priority is to make the trains coming from side line to main line wait, until there is enough room in main line so no train in main line has to stop (and jam the whole line)?
12:57:49  <CIA-3> celestar * r4799 /branch/bridge/water_cmd.c: [bridge] Disallow construction of shipyards under a bridge
12:58:11  <Tobin> We wont be able to build anything cool under bridges :(
12:58:23  <Celestar> Tobin: that is NOT the clean bridge branch ;)
12:58:28  <Celestar> Tobin: that will come later.
12:58:39  * Tobin demands under bridge airports ;-)
12:59:09  <Tobin> Celestar: Didn't you just say it should build correctly?
12:59:35  <Brianetta> Ihmemies: Yes
12:59:55  <Celestar> Tobin: yes, but what you have is not the bridge branch :)
13:00:06  <Tobin> Celestar: Ooops!
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13:01:10  <peter1138> izhirahider: is it? Hmm
13:01:34  <peter1138> izhirahider: it's just to tell you what the dropdown and listbox widgets do
13:01:47  <CIA-3> celestar * r4800 /branch/bridge/water_cmd.c: [bridge] No more shiplifts below bridges. Should I have done all this in ONE commit?
13:02:23  <Qball> lol
13:03:12  <black_Nightmare> shiplift?
13:03:15  <Tobin> "No more shiplifts below bridges. Should I have done all this in ONE commit?" <--- It's a bit late to ask that question. ;-)
13:03:35  <Tobin> black_Nightmare: lock.
13:04:34  <black_Nightmare> ohh :p
13:04:47  <black_Nightmare> so does this mean trains can cross train but train can't cross .. ships? :p
13:05:01  <black_Nightmare> I think some canal locks actually had a road bridge crossing them mid-section anyhow
13:05:06  <black_Nightmare> hehe
13:05:08  <Tobin> No, trains can cross ships/canals etc.
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13:05:26  <Tobin> Just not the locks.
13:05:57  <Tobin> They can't cross stations either (so you'll just have to look at my sexy screenshots of that for the time being).
13:06:07  <hylje> can you tunnel below canals
13:06:33  <black_Nightmare> yeah and....if you had to ask...
13:06:35  <izhirahider> peter1138: When you have the time, could you show me a screenshot? I don't use custom station grf's
13:07:19  <black_Nightmare> in florida (hotel near disneyworld I think) there is actually one place where a small highway that goes right underneath a river that connects two natural huge lakes
13:07:32  <peter1138> izhirahider: i've got a shot of the gui without tooltips
13:07:33  <black_Nightmare> at both ends of where the road tunnel is..there's "NO WAKE!" signs
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13:07:53  <peter1138> izhirahider: http://195.112.37.102/ottd/ns2.png
13:08:01  <peter1138> izhirahider: the top dropdown picks a custom station class
13:08:11  <peter1138> the listbox picks the custom station type
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13:09:11  <Celestar> WTF do we need GetVehicleOutOfTunnelTile for?!
13:09:31  <Prof_Frink> To get vehicles out of tunnel tiles?
13:09:51  <izhirahider> peter1138: perfect
13:10:06  <Celestar> v->tile ALWAYS points to the tunnel portal tile as long as a vehicle is in the tunnel.
13:10:36  <glx> I remember I had a patch about that on SF
13:12:29  <Ihmemies> why the list is so small
13:12:38  <Ihmemies> oh,.. you play with some crappy res :P
13:12:55  <Ihmemies> "always think of the ones with 14" 15 year old crt"
13:13:25  <black_Nightmare> what res is this now?
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13:14:18  <peter1138> ...
13:14:28  <peter1138> the dropdown list is a standard size
13:14:56  <peter1138> hmm, i could make the window resizable to make the listbox bigger
13:15:09  <black_Nightmare> true..the only non-standard size thing I can think of is when you stretch the depot window to be longer etc :p
13:15:26  <Ihmemies> and probably rememember the resized window size between sessions too? ;P
13:15:59  <black_Nightmare> hmm nah not my style but to our own :p
13:16:41  <peter1138> Ihmemies: unlikely
13:16:49  <peter1138> hmm. but possible
13:17:18  <Brianetta> YEY!
13:17:25  <Brianetta> GOt the guest login on the database removed
13:17:39  <Brianetta> Now people can't just click "guest" on the login box
13:17:43  <Brianetta> and get all the info
13:22:11  <CIA-3> celestar * r4801 /branch/bridge/ (5 files): [bridge] Remove GetVehicleOutOfTunnelTile. If a vehicle is inside a tunnel, v->tile ALWAYS points to the tunnel portal tile anyway. Same is true now for bridges
13:22:15  <Celestar> ok I'm off a bit
13:23:08  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4802 /trunk/ (gfx.c gfx.h misc_gui.c viewport.c): - Codechange: replace _stringwidth_base and associated magic numbers with a FontSize enum, using the numbers (which are SpriteIDs) in only the places needed.
13:37:08  <black_Nightmare> hmm....was just wondering but any thoughts on pbs in openttd yet?
13:38:47  <peter1138> planned as part of / an extension to yapf
13:39:55  <CIA-3> celestar * r4803 /branch/bridge/train_cmd.c: [bridge] -Fix: Bridge heads above tunnels do not "serve" as a tunnel exit anymore (for trains), currently a bit hackish, planning something better
13:40:51  <black_Nightmare> remind me again but what did yapf stand for?
13:41:04  <Celestar> Yet Another PathFinder
13:41:14  <black_Nightmare> lol ok
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13:42:21  <Ihmemies> what is npf then?
13:42:26  <Celestar> New Pathfinder
13:42:30  <Ihmemies> right
13:42:41  <Celestar> YAPF has a fundamental difference: it is C++
13:42:49  <Ihmemies> and yapf > npf qualitywise, npf > yapf performance wise?
13:42:54  <Ihmemies> what does it matter if it's c++?
13:43:04  <Celestar> Yapf is fast.
13:43:09  <glx> yapf > npf performance wise
13:43:19  <glx> and yapf uses less CPU
13:43:23  <Celestar> Yapf is faster than NTP/OPF.
13:43:37  <Vornicus> So, um
13:43:42  <Ihmemies> right.. so everyone uses yapf? :/
13:43:47  <Ihmemies> since cpu usage is big evil
13:43:50  <Celestar> Ihmemies: not yet, because it is not merged yet.
13:44:02  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk is doing some final cleanup before it gets into trunk
13:44:10  <Ihmemies> ok :/
13:44:20  <Celestar> Darkvater: you there?
13:45:28  <Noldo> Celestar: there is oropably some design differences with NPF and YAPF too
13:49:10  <Celestar> Noldo: some :)
13:49:13  <Celestar> Tron: PING
13:49:40  <Tron> yes?
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13:50:09  <Celestar> Tron: we once planned to put bit 6 of mextra for X bridge, and bit 7 for Y bridges. Why did you change that idea? ;)
13:50:33  <Tron> i didn't
13:51:09  <Celestar> that means I can change it?
13:51:24  <Celestar> (without making conversions for old savegames from branch/bridge)
13:52:49  <Tron> only if it stays impossible to have more than one bridge middle part per tile, because there are too many unresolved problems
13:53:04  <Celestar> currently, sure.
13:53:18  <Celestar> xbridge make very little sense without new sprites anyway.
13:54:38  <peter1138> hmm
13:54:49  <peter1138> too many string literals :(
13:55:03  <Celestar> they should be moved out sooner rather than later.
13:55:45  <peter1138> the czech name generator is ugly
13:56:00  <Celestar> have KUDr_wrk code a new one (=
13:56:20  <peter1138> there are places where it replaces characters
13:56:47  <peter1138> except they'll be 2 or 3 chars with utf-8
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14:41:11  <CIA-3> celestar * r4804 /branch/bridge/tunnelbridge_cmd.c: [bridge] Moved around some check
14:41:30  <peter1138> nice message :P
14:41:35  <Celestar> :P
14:41:45  <Celestar> sorry couldn't think of anything better :P
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14:46:11  <Tron> Celestar: i doubt you deleted the right line in the MP_WATER case
14:46:37  <Celestar> er?
14:46:55  <Celestar> GNAH
14:47:03  <glx> :)
14:48:14  <CIA-3> celestar * r4805 /branch/bridge/tunnelbridge_cmd.c: [bridge] Removed the wrong line in previous commit
14:48:21  <Celestar> thanks Tron :S
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14:52:43  <Born_Acorn> peter1138! trams!
14:53:41  <SpComb> Born_Acorn: Born_Acorn!
14:53:49  <peter1138> Born_Acorn: lies!
14:53:54  <Born_Acorn> peter1138! trams!
14:54:04  <SpComb> trams?
14:54:10  <Born_Acorn> Trams.
14:54:15  <SpComb> what trams?
14:54:26  <glx> tramways?
14:54:27  <SpComb> steven_h made those ages ago!
14:55:02  <Darkvater> peter1138: does that comment mean you're working on UTF-8/FreeType again? :)
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14:56:09  <peter1138> yes
14:56:20  <peter1138> 73 KB o_O
14:56:24  <Darkvater> :)
14:56:25  <SpComb> of?
14:56:26  <peter1138> 2945 lines
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15:02:31  <Celestar> Tron: I'll slightly modify the usage of the two bits in mextra later on, and add some accessor that'll make life easier then.
15:02:34  <Celestar> me->gone();
15:02:42  <peter1138> hmm, 1366 lines of which is table/namegen.h
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15:04:03  <Brianetta> re
15:04:24  <Celestar> http://www.fvfischer.de/ottd/bridgesource.tar.gz <= here's a tarball of the xbridge source meanwhile. svn diff still can't do anything useful.
15:04:51  <Brianetta> svn is usually better than that
15:05:25  <peter1138> can't do anything useful? huh?
15:05:39  <Celestar> peter1138: the diff it creates refuses to apply
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15:05:50  <peter1138> how strange
15:05:52  <Celestar> http://www.fvfischer.de/ottd/xbridge.diff <= try it
15:05:58  <Celestar> against 4804
15:06:04  <Celestar> 4805
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15:08:28  <Celestar> does it apply?
15:08:56  <Celestar> something went wrong with the newly-created files
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15:14:10  <CIA-3> celestar * r4806 /branch/bridge/roadveh_cmd.c: (log message trimmed)
15:14:10  <CIA-3> [bridge] Determine the "reversabilty" of a road vehicle by its status, not by
15:14:10  <CIA-3> the hidden bit. This gives the proper error message about not being able to turn
15:14:10  <CIA-3> on a bridge (like it does for tunnels). A problem with reverse commands on
15:14:11  <CIA-3> bridge heads still exists[bridge] Determine the "reversabilty" of a road vehicle
15:14:13  <CIA-3> by its status, not by the hidden bit. This gives the proper error message about
15:14:15  <CIA-3> not being able to turn on a bridge (like it does for tunnels). A problem with
15:15:31  <glx> Celestar: really weird commit message
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15:16:23  <Celestar> WHAT THE FUCK?
15:16:37  <Celestar> I didn't write the message.
15:16:41  <Celestar> at least not 70% of it :S
15:16:51  <Celestar> ok me->really_gone();
15:17:16  <Darkvater> lemme fix that for you :)
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15:17:33  <Celestar> Darkvater: fix what? how?
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15:17:50  <Darkvater> svnadmin
15:18:08  <Celestar> I don't have svnadmin-rights
15:18:12  <Darkvater> but I do
15:18:24  <Celestar> ah (=
15:18:41  <peter1138> heh, duplicated
15:19:54  <Darkvater> and done
15:20:03  <Celestar> thanks (=
15:20:13  <Darkvater> donnu how trac handles the change though
15:20:22  <Celestar> trac?
15:20:24  <Celestar> what'S trac?
15:20:43  <Darkvater> wow it has been octoplated
15:20:50  <Darkvater> http://svn.openttd.org :)
15:20:54  <Darkvater> the websvn
15:21:02  <Celestar> yuck GUI
15:21:11  <Darkvater> ?
15:21:15  * Darkvater slaps Celestar
15:21:19  <Darkvater> trac rules
15:21:28  <Darkvater> especially if you're at work and don't have svn ^^
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15:22:00  <Celestar> but you have ssh (=
15:22:03  <Celestar> what else do you need :P
15:22:25  <Darkvater> you cannot seriously think that SSH works better for browsing the repository than trac
15:22:52  <Celestar> but I do think so (=
15:22:59  * Darkvater faints
15:23:16  <Celestar> stupid point-and-click interfaces :P
15:23:39  <Celestar> takes hours to find changes in branch/bridge/table/station_land.h
15:23:46  <Celestar> much longer than to type it
15:24:14  <Darkvater> ey, whatever floats your boat homie
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15:34:13  <peter1138> hmm
15:34:19  <peter1138> trebuchet ms works quite nicely
15:36:50  <CIA-3> glx * r4807 /trunk/win32.c: - Fix: win32 compilation was broken by r4802
15:37:48  <peter1138> hmm
15:37:52  <peter1138> "oops"
15:39:06  <Darkvater> :O
15:39:11  <Darkvater> peter1138, shame on you!
15:39:22  <Darkvater> I thought you devved on win?
15:40:13  <peter1138> not at the moment
15:40:18  <peter1138> there's another one though...
15:40:53  <peter1138> btw, isn't "Fix:" reserved for things that were broken in the last release?
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15:42:24  <Darkvater> I usually do '- Fix (r4802):' for longer standing bugs
15:42:43  <Darkvater> peter1138: almost nothing was broken in the previous release so using fix would never be appropiate ;p
15:42:52  <peter1138> heh
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15:43:23  <Darkvater> but yeah I'm not sure I agree with the wording glx used
15:43:43  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4808 /trunk/os2.c: - Fix GetCharacterWidth() change in os2.c missed in r4802.
15:43:55  <peter1138> (assuming os2 ever compiles anyway...)
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15:44:23  <Darkvater> ok that's even worse
15:44:32  <peter1138> lol
15:45:03  <Darkvater> I think we should put the revision that caused the regression as much in the beginning as possible
15:45:11  <Darkvater> eg - Fix (r4802):
15:45:15  <peter1138> ok
15:45:32  <Darkvater> makes it really easy to look through when scanning for backporting/release logs etc
15:46:21  <glx> we should have "commit style" somewhere, like "coding style"
15:46:37  <Darkvater> there is a commit style I think somewhere
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15:48:22  <Darkvater> brb
15:48:29  <Darkvater> http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Commit_style
15:48:32  <Darkvater> there
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15:54:37  <MeusH> hey
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16:05:27  <Born_Acorn> peter1138! custombridgeheads!
16:08:42  *** mode/#openttd [+o Darkvater] by ChanServ
16:10:40  <peter1138> lies
16:11:03  <Born_Acorn> Who had that custombridgehead patch?
16:11:09  <Born_Acorn> It was either you or Hackykid.
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16:20:08  <peter1138> Born_Acorn: yes, me
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16:25:15  <peter1138> 75KB
16:25:17  <peter1138> 3004 lines
16:25:19  <peter1138> *sigh*
16:25:26  * peter1138 ponders
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16:35:39  <Prof_Frink> peter1138! custombridgeheads!
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16:40:31  <LIIT> Prof_Frink: is he done with newstations ?
16:40:46  <Prof_Frink> Well, they're committed
16:41:05  <LIIT> wow, nice, gratz Peter
16:41:15  *** mode/#openttd [-o Darkvater] by Darkvater
16:41:20  <Vornicus> most recent work I've seen on custom bridgeheads was from Celestar, I think
16:42:41  <peter1138> custom bridge heads are being planned as part of the new bridge stuff
16:44:56  <peter1138> (rather than as my hack)
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16:56:48  <MeusH> peter1138: what are your plans on newgrf management in multiplayer games?
16:56:52  *** egladil [n=egladil@frukt.csbnet.se] has quit []
16:59:25  <peter1138> ROAR
16:59:32  * peter1138 gets the czech name generator working
16:59:34  * LIIT hides from the lion
17:00:00  <Born_Acorn> I am quite offended.
17:00:06  <Born_Acorn> Lions are against my religion.
17:00:23  * LIIT don't believe in goats...
17:00:49  <Born_Acorn> religions are against my religion too, so I am offended I have mentioned it.
17:01:03  <LIIT> Born_Acorn: Just join AAA
17:01:25  <Born_Acorn> any letter of the alphabet is against my religion.
17:01:34  <Born_Acorn> I am offended x3.
17:01:45  <LIIT> Born_Acorn: you will fit perfectly into AAA :-)
17:01:54  <Eddi|zuHause> Anatomy is a great film :p
17:02:04  <LIIT> AAA -> Association Against Acronyms
17:02:08  *** Andrew67 [i=andrew67@206.248.80.224] has quit [Client Quit]
17:02:28  <Born_Acorn> Associations are against my religion.
17:02:50  <Born_Acorn> This channel does not cater for my religious needs! What happens to those like me who do not believe in IRC?
17:02:50  <LIIT> Acronyms Agaist Associations ? << better ?
17:03:19  * Born_Acorn starts a pressure group. (they too are against my religion)
17:03:55  <rain````> hey i got a question about game mechanics
17:04:06  <rain````> what dictates the amount of $ u get from transfering cargo from 1 city to antoher
17:04:19  <Prof_Frink> LIIT: weren't the founding members of the AAA arrested for battery?
17:04:24  <rain````> ive played it for some time, and it *seems* to be distance/time
17:04:33  <Prof_Frink> rain````: see cargo payment rates graph
17:04:35  <LIIT> Prof_Frink: hmmm, I thought I founded AAA :-)
17:04:39  <Born_Acorn> Mothers against the protection of not protecting those who have not catered for those who do not believe in anything and everything (like Born_Acorn).or MATPONPTWHNCFTWDNBIAAE(LBA)
17:04:51  <Born_Acorn> for short.
17:05:06  *** mode/#openttd [+o Darkvater] by ChanServ
17:05:25  <rain````> is there any reason to for instance take coal to the nearby power plant when u can take it across the entire map to some other power plant?
17:05:38  <Darkvater> rain````: no reason whatsoever
17:05:45  <rain````> ah, next question
17:05:45  <Prof_Frink> (at the moment)
17:05:55  <Darkvater> next answer
17:06:06  <rain````> any way to get a steel mill and a factory in the same rail station
17:06:08  <LIIT> Prof_Frink: hmm, is that going to change ? Nice ?
17:06:16  <Darkvater> rain````: ?
17:06:23  <Prof_Frink> peter1138! NewIndustries!
17:06:53  <peter1138> one lang file change:
17:06:55  <peter1138> 3985 lines
17:06:57  <LIIT> rain````: sure, but it pays close to nothing if you transport it back to that station
17:06:59  <peter1138> 376360 bytes
17:06:59  <Vornicus> a steel mill and a factory can be at the same rail station, but there's no point
17:07:06  <rain````> ok
17:07:11  <Darkvater> I don't get the question
17:07:12  <Vornicus> You want to send steel as far as you can.
17:07:14  <rain````> does it actually work though?
17:07:16  <rain````> i mean
17:07:17  <peter1138> one lang file:
17:07:18  <Vornicus> No
17:07:19  <peter1138> 2901 lines
17:07:23  <rain````> would it take iron and produce goods (thats the question)?
17:07:24  <peter1138> 256654 bytes
17:07:24  <peter1138> hmm
17:07:31  <Darkvater> the goal of the game is to send everything as far away and as fast as possible
17:07:37  <Vornicus> Two industries at the same station that would feed each other do not.
17:07:41  <Darkvater> except perhaps water/food to grow your towns in arctic/desert
17:07:44  <rain````> ok
17:07:58  <Darkvater> peter1138: :). You should do that as a seperate commit
17:08:07  <peter1138> lang files, of course
17:08:35  <rain````> one last question about feeders, i have 2 internation airports that are being fed to, but neither accept passengers
17:08:43  <rain````> but i want them to 'swap' passengers
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17:08:57  <Darkvater> not possible
17:08:59  <rain````> do i have to make an 'inbound' station and an 'outbound' station for each?
17:09:03  <Darkvater> yes
17:09:14  <peter1138> hmm, news is broken :/
17:09:18  <rain````> same applies to valuables?
17:09:37  <Darkvater> you cannot feed a station and drop off cargo to pick up by your bus/train and transport to destination
17:09:56  <rain````> ahh ok
17:10:04  <Darkvater> eg. a station can only have ONE source for a given cargo
17:10:06  <Darkvater> currently
17:10:17  <Darkvater> so if you have A,B as source going to C
17:10:31  <Darkvater> you transport from A > C. You get cargo at A from C (let's say 10)
17:10:34  <CIA-3> belugas * r4809 /trunk/graph_gui.c: Codechange : Merged two loops in only one.
17:10:47  <Darkvater> but if you transport 20 from B > C; you get 30 at C from B
17:10:52  <Darkvater> not 10 from B and 20 from A
17:10:58  <Darkvater> eh other way aroaund ;p
17:11:03  <rain````> ok
17:11:10  <rain````> can u then take cargo from C to D
17:11:18  <rain````> and transfer/unload
17:11:22  <rain````> (all 30)
17:11:28  <Darkvater> yes, then you'll have 30 from B at D
17:11:29  <rain````> then take cargo from D to E, D to F, D to G.... etc
17:12:27  <Darkvater> you can. In the end you can have 100 at G from B. But if you transfer even 1 from Z to G, you'll have 101 from Z
17:12:53  <Dred_furst> can someone tell me what pack does the pgs grfs come from?
17:13:07  <peter1138> project generic stations
17:13:12  <Dred_furst> Thanks
17:17:04  <LIIT> btw, when does the timer for cargo-transport start ? When the cargo is placed on station, when the cargo is placed on a train or when the train leaves the station ?
17:17:16  <LIIT> I'm guessing it's the first one
17:17:17  <Darkvater> when the cargo is placed on the train
17:17:25  <LIIT> hmm, k, so I was wrong
17:17:27  <LIIT> interesting
17:17:39  <Darkvater> the station-placement is only relevant for your station-ratings
17:17:49  <LIIT> oki doki, thx :-)
17:17:59  * peter1138 recompiles without freetype
17:18:00  <LIIT> That solves the mystery of the missing shoe ;-)
17:18:03  * peter1138 tests
17:18:10  <peter1138> yay, boom
17:18:13  <peter1138> o_O
17:18:15  <Darkvater> peter1138: compile-flag?
17:18:20  <peter1138> yes
17:18:25  <Darkvater> ah, that's nice of you
17:18:26  <peter1138> like sdl/png
17:18:34  <peter1138> though i've not tested with windows
17:18:47  <Darkvater> but sdl is always needed :)
17:18:59  <Darkvater> dedicated doesn't count
17:19:15  <peter1138> heh
17:19:24  <peter1138> well
17:19:52  <peter1138> hmm
17:20:04  <peter1138> it's a configure option too
17:20:14  * Darkvater likes configure
17:20:29  <peter1138> now i need to handle missing characters gracefully
17:20:33  <peter1138> freetype will draw a box
17:20:39  <peter1138> the sprites will... crash
17:20:58  <peter1138> hmm
17:21:06  <Darkvater> T_T
17:21:13  <peter1138> actually
17:21:15  <Darkvater> prob in MP
17:21:27  <peter1138> i can check the range is valid
17:21:28  <Darkvater> can't we use a fallback-sprite for this?
17:21:34  <peter1138> exactly
17:21:35  <Darkvater> or substitute by ?
17:21:43  <Darkvater> which already is done
17:21:47  <peter1138> i need to map some unicode chars to our sprites, though
17:21:49  <Darkvater> str_validate()
17:22:03  <peter1138> nah, that's not the problem
17:22:43  <peter1138> the euro is now 0x20AC instead of what it was
17:23:10  <Darkvater> ah
17:23:15  <LIIT> btw, oTTD is one of the reasons that I'm finally throwing out windows - now that I'm not playing any other games, there are no reasons to stay with windows... A round of applause for oTTD plz, it's making the world a better place ;-)
17:23:45  * Darkvater congratulates LIIT
17:24:09  * peter1138 wonders what to use a placeholder
17:24:10  <CIA-3> glx * r4810 /trunk/video/win32_v.c: - Fix: removed warning about strict-alias (release build)
17:24:29  <LIIT> I've had Gentoo on our server for a long time, will be nice to try it on the desktop aswell
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17:24:41  <peter1138> gentoo on a server? heh
17:25:00  <Prof_Frink> yoda rund gentoo :/
17:25:01  <LIIT> aye, works quite well, no x11, etc on if offcourse :-)
17:25:06  <MeusH> peter1138: so it will be no problem if two people play multiplayer, one with freetype and utf support, and one plays the with current text engine?
17:25:46  <peter1138> why would it be?
17:26:19  <Prof_Frink> what if mr. utf says something utf'd and mr. oldschool goes eh?
17:26:21  <rain````> what size trains u guys usually use
17:26:24  <rain````> number of carts
17:26:45  <rain````> im trying 10 for nearly every train this game and they apparently suck at clover-like junctions
17:26:50  <LIIT> 5-9, depending on how much cargo the industry creates
17:26:51  <Prof_Frink> no they don't
17:26:53  <Darkvater> depends on the amount of cargo, available space and of course the refill rate
17:27:03  <Prof_Frink> you need to redesign your junctions
17:27:14  <Prof_Frink> ACF spaghetti
17:27:15  <LIIT> but I alsways play on hard+, so the long trains brake down too much
17:27:18  <rain````> they aparently suck at 'small clover' like junctions
17:27:22  <rain````> yes, i do
17:27:38  <Darkvater> you can use 10-20 on dedicated lines, but on busy networks, about 6-8 is what I usually have max
17:27:59  <rain````> me and my brother were playing the other day and we made a 60-car long one
17:28:11  <hylje> .>>:
17:28:23  <rain````> it wouldnt leave the station till i told it to
17:28:25  <rain````> =]
17:28:28  <Prof_Frink> rain````: tried doing instantaneous transportation yet?
17:28:28  <rain````> but it made it
17:28:36  <rain````> nope, whats that?
17:28:57  <Prof_Frink> build straight track+stations, 50 squares total length
17:29:08  <Prof_Frink> build one train, 100 units
17:29:18  <rain````> HAHAHAHA
17:29:23  <Prof_Frink> Don't use full load
17:29:44  <rain````> thats funny =]
17:30:09  <LIIT> heh, I gotta try that :-)
17:30:48  <Prof_Frink> Just remember to bomb the depot afterwards
17:30:54  <LIIT> hehe
17:31:37  <rain````> how much money u get?
17:31:57  <Prof_Frink> depends
17:32:15  <LIIT> cargo, inflation, loadingsystem
17:32:28  <Prof_Frink> prodrate
17:34:29  <MeusH> umm rate you prod?
17:34:32  <MeusH> pfffrrr
17:34:35  <LIIT> hehe
17:34:45  * LIIT *eeeeew*
17:38:39  <rain````> haha
17:38:40  <rain````> just tried it
17:38:44  <rain````> u dont get much :P
17:39:38  <MeusH> hmmm people people please help my english
17:39:52  <MeusH> imagine desert in Iraqui
17:40:06  <MeusH> and now please help me finding the missing word
17:40:14  <MeusH> Iraqui * with desert
17:40:24  <MeusH> what could it be? connect is the bad word...
17:40:37  <MeusH> asciocates maybye?
17:40:43  <Prof_Frink> 'in Iraqui'? is that 'in Iraq' or 'an Iraqi'?
17:40:52  <MeusH> sorry
17:41:02  <MeusH> okay, Tunesia
17:41:12  <Prof_Frink> Tunisia?
17:41:12  <MeusH> imagine desert in Tunesia
17:41:20  <MeusH> ahhhh
17:41:23  <MeusH> Egypt
17:41:26  <Prof_Frink> ok
17:41:35  <MeusH> so, you think about desert and about Egypt
17:41:36  <rain````> theres a desert in egypt?
17:41:39  <LIIT> mmmm, Tuna-fish....
17:41:41  <MeusH> yeah
17:41:46  <LIIT> define desert plz ?
17:41:49  <LIIT> ;-)
17:41:51  <Prof_Frink> puding.
17:41:52  <rain````> ice cream
17:42:08  <MeusH> anyway, what's the correct word to use?
17:42:15  <rain````> sand?
17:42:17  <Prof_Frink> sandy?
17:42:19  <rain````> sahara?
17:42:22  <LIIT> Tuna-fish =
17:42:23  <MeusH> Egypt * (me) with desert
17:42:23  <rain````> hot?
17:42:34  <rain````> filled
17:42:36  <rain````> full of
17:42:39  <MeusH> * = similiarizes in my mind
17:42:41  <rain````> has a
17:42:44  <MeusH> so, what's the word
17:42:45  <MeusH> please
17:42:52  <Prof_Frink> *boing*
17:43:20  <LIIT> I'm sure Born_Acorn would help, if it wasn't against his religion...
17:44:44  <MeusH> so, how about "Many people * Egypt with sand"
17:44:49  <MeusH> what's *?
17:44:56  <LIIT> in ?
17:45:04  <LIIT> I still have no idea what you are looking for :-/
17:45:21  <Prof_Frink> associate
17:45:24  <peter1138> "Many people SPLICE Egypt with sand"
17:45:25  <MeusH> thanks
17:45:48  <LIIT> I only splice when the film breaks :-)
17:45:58  *** ector-- [n=meloditr@ygun.brg.sgsnet.se] has joined #openttd
17:46:14  <LIIT> And that has only happened once
17:46:36  <LIIT> my poor E.T. film broke, had to splice it back together *sniff*
17:53:34  <Darkvater> I don't get it
17:54:05  <LIIT> you know what 'film' is ? :-)
17:54:15  <Darkvater> movie?
17:54:18  <Darkvater> 8mm?
17:54:24  <Darkvater> or negatives?
17:54:26  <LIIT> you print a movine on film
17:54:28  <LIIT> 35mm :-)
17:54:45  <Darkvater> I don't print movines
17:54:52  <Darkvater> I eat bovines though
17:54:53  <LIIT> hehe, me neither :-)
17:55:06  <LIIT> but I buy them - or well, try to :-)
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17:57:08  <peter1138> Darkvater: well, it works.
17:57:18  <peter1138> the unicode -> ascii mapping is a bit crude
17:57:23  <peter1138> just a switch block
17:57:35  <Darkvater> :)
17:59:36  <peter1138> 80KB
18:01:29  <Serotonin_> sleepy compile farm
18:03:47  <peter1138> hmm
18:04:04  <peter1138> it works without freetype...
18:04:14  <peter1138> now let's try with, again
18:04:54  *** Zahl [n=SENFGURK@dslb-082-083-206-006.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:05:03  <MeusH> well
18:05:17  <peter1138> (it should do, i only modified non-freetype code)
18:05:27  <peter1138> next question...
18:05:37  <peter1138> freetype in windows.......
18:05:39  <Darkvater> you neverknow
18:06:03  <peter1138> Darkvater: well, it's in a #if block :)
18:06:08  <Darkvater> :)
18:06:52  * glx thinks he should compile freetype for windows :)
18:07:06  <glx> peter1138: freetype 1 or 2 ?
18:07:10  <peter1138> 2
18:07:27  <XeryusTC> freetype works under windows
18:07:34  *** Angst [n=Angst@p54944526.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
18:08:47  * peter1138 investigates the message history window
18:09:50  <peter1138> weird... it handles raw strings...
18:10:24  <peter1138> so remove formatting, it appears
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18:16:27  <Darkvater> we can easily add a freetype.lib to the useful zip file on SF
18:16:31  <Darkvater> I suppose
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18:25:31  <peter1138> yay, news history works
18:26:35  <Darkvater> :D
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18:29:13  * peter1138 -> home
18:33:31  <MeusH> congrats
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18:42:44  <Brianetta> *** AUTOPILOT ENGAGED ***
18:42:44  <Brianetta> Brianetta's Nightly is updated.
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19:11:09  * peter1138 @ home
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19:14:55  <izhirahider> Where can I find info on how to use new graphics into the game, specially how to 'install' them?
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19:16:07  <peter1138> http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Newgrf
19:16:12  <peter1138> (roughly)
19:19:24  <MeusH> peter1138: could you go, please, to lines saying
19:19:25  <MeusH> In this case, the game loads only "firstset.grf" and "secondset.grf", "thirdset.grf" is deactivated and the game think that there aren't other sets to load.
19:19:41  <MeusH> why isn't "fourthset" and "fifthset" activated?
19:19:47  <peter1138> MeusH: yes, i know. fancy changing it?
19:19:50  <peter1138> the doc lies
19:19:51  <MeusH> I hope it works for me
19:20:08  <MeusH> so, I should write that 4th and 5th are active, too?
19:20:15  <MeusH> *should I write...
19:20:19  <peter1138> well, they are, so...
19:20:22  <MeusH> ok
19:20:34  <Brianetta> OK, invisible station tiles suck
19:20:43  <Brianetta> bobingabout has walked them into two city centres
19:20:53  <Brianetta> I'm going to ditch that grf
19:20:59  <glx> Brianetta: screenshot?
19:21:08  <Brianetta> glx: Of what?
19:21:14  <Brianetta> It looks like a grassy tile int he city
19:21:26  <glx> invisible station tiles :)
19:21:54  <Brianetta> It's lame as a duck
19:22:23  <peter1138> heh
19:22:25  <peter1138> yes
19:22:34  <MeusH> done
19:22:35  <Brianetta> Trust bobingabout to find it
19:23:00  <MeusH> yeah, invisible station tiles are as lame as llama
19:23:08  <MeusH> it's difficult to spot them
19:23:09  <Brianetta> Damnit, I can't get my autopilot to pause-on-only-spectators gracefully
19:23:12  <MeusH> only minimap can help
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19:23:33  <Brianetta> because the join message and the part message don't contain company info
19:23:42  <Brianetta> Never mind
19:23:52  <Brianetta> Ungraceful it is.
19:25:07  <MeusH> Brianetta: I thought autopause has been commited to the trunk long time ago
19:25:38  <Brianetta> MeusH: No sign of it
19:25:46  <MeusH> ugh
19:25:48  <MeusH> pity
19:26:05  <Brianetta> I'd want it to unpause for company players only
19:26:17  <Brianetta> Spectators forcing the date forward sucks
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19:39:43  <Brianetta> peter1138: In *yesterday's* nightly, one could electrify a grassy field with invisible station tiles (:
19:43:15  <peter1138> yeah
19:43:43  <peter1138> unimplemented bits :D
19:44:02  <peter1138> MeusH: no, because it was buggy
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19:47:39  <izhirahider> peter1138: thanks
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19:50:29  <peter1138> ?
19:58:15  <izhirahider> it was for earlier, I was delayed :)
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20:36:29  <MeusH> cya
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21:04:18  <peter1138> getting a decent tiny font is... tricky
21:04:56  <hylje> pixelfont
21:08:39  *** wolf^_ [i=wolf@rev2.kamp.pl] has joined #openttd
21:08:39  *** wolf^ [i=wolf@pld-linux/wolf] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:08:55  <ector--> http://www.proggyfonts.com/index.php?menu=download
21:09:38  *** wolf^_ is now known as wolf^
21:10:02  <peter1138> not small enough
21:10:53  *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-83-100-208-167.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
21:10:56  <Sacro> evening all
21:11:05  <peter1138> webby small is about the right height, but too wide.
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21:19:43  <UnderBuilder> is hard creating a windows aplication in C?
21:20:52  <glx> UnderBuilder: command line or window mode ?
21:28:02  *** |Jurgen| [n=jurgen@d51A43FD0.access.telenet.be] has quit ["Leaving"]
21:31:11  <ector--> if you know win32 api, it's not hard. if not, it'll take you a while to learn.
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21:32:59  <Sacro> QT is nice
21:33:31  <Sacro> tt-forums down :(
21:38:24  *** Bjarni [n=Bjarni@0x535ca2e0.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
21:38:24  *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
21:38:35  <Bjarni> orudge: did you  just kill the forum?
21:39:05  <orudge> Yes.
21:39:07  <orudge> Trying to convert it all to UTF-8
21:39:10  <Sacro> orudge: well that was silly :O
21:39:11  <Sacro> :)
21:39:18  <Bjarni> luckily I could click back to get my (long) message back so I can copy paste it into a txt file for later posting
21:39:21  <orudge> following something else deciding it was going to play around.
21:39:28  <orudge> It'll hopefully be back soon.
21:39:45  <Bjarni> how long into the future is "soon"?
21:39:50  <orudge> Depends how long this takes :p
21:40:04  <Bjarni> wow, I never guessed that :p
21:40:23  <orudge> Hopefully not long. Under an hour I would hope
21:40:28  <orudge> but, it may all go wrong.
21:40:50  * Bjarni images a failure that renders all posts unreadable
21:41:04  <Bjarni> that would be like a worst case scenario
21:41:17  <orudge> Well, I've triple-backed it up
21:41:24  <Bjarni> hehe, an even better one: reencoding of all passwords :p
21:41:38  <orudge> Ooh, hm. Well, as they're stored as MD5 hashes, they shouldn't be reencoded :p
21:42:04  <Bjarni> except that once you forget it, you can get it to email a new one to you
21:42:17  <Bjarni> reencoding of user names :p
21:42:27  <Bjarni> all of them into garbage
21:42:38  <orudge> :p
21:43:24  <Sacro> so how do i change to UTF-8?
21:43:35  <Bjarni> well, it appears that I will have to post my post regarding railroad level crossings tomorrow
21:43:45  <orudge> You shouldn't need to do anything, Sacro
21:43:49  <Bjarni> some moron decided to always blame the railroad
21:44:38  *** |Jeroen| [n=jeroen@dD57729D4.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
21:44:39  <Bjarni> while in real life, it's 95% change of the cause is a 100% human error from the driver of the road vehicle
21:45:34  <Bjarni> since those 95% excludes road vehicle brake failures and stuff like that, it leaves very little room for the railroad to be blamed
21:46:14  <Bjarni> have you ever seen a crossing fail on it's own in real life?
21:46:24  <Bjarni> I mean failure to active barriers
21:46:57  <Sacro> ive seen failure to lift them a few times
21:47:18  <Bjarni> heh
21:47:31  <Bjarni> happy waiting 8 minutes for them to time out then :p
21:47:56  <Bjarni> or even longer depending on max speed of the railroad
21:49:19  <Bjarni> it's based on whenever something goes wrong, it will try to do the most sensible thing to avoid an accident, like if it fails to detect that the whole train have passed, it will not raise the barriers
21:49:39  <glx> Sacro: that's called security
21:50:00  <Bjarni> well, my point is that it almost never happen
21:50:12  <Sacro> Bjarni: nah, they just plain broke
21:50:39  *** Mucht [n=Mucht@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd
21:50:46  <glx> if the crossing is broken, don't allow vehicles on it, so keep barriers down
21:50:59  <Bjarni> yeah
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21:52:58  <Bjarni> basically everything regarding railroad safety is based on disallowing any traffic unless it's sure that it's safe to proceed
21:53:25  <glx> yeah like if the light is off, it's red
21:53:40  <Bjarni> that too, but that was not what I was thinking about
21:54:42  *** Tobin [n=Tobin@c211-28-197-129.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd
21:55:49  <Bjarni> it was more like if ("track free of trains" && "all switches turned correctly and locked" && "all neighbour switches turned away from track and locked" && "road crossing activated without a single error") {give green signal} else {give red signal}
21:56:05  <Bjarni> it have to be 100% sure of all those events
21:57:05  <Bjarni> you can get a failure to get a green signal if a switch broke even though you are not passing the switch in question, but then the system can't be 100% sure that you will not encounter another train passing that switch so it enters your path
21:58:05  <Bjarni> but you are right, no light = red. The same goes for signal displays that should not have been, like green and red at the same time
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21:58:18  <XeryusTC> could people click this link: http://uc1.GamesTotal.com/?tft=4e1i I'll be really gratefull :)
21:58:20  <Ihmemies> why the board is... down
21:58:20  <Bjarni> or green if you didn't except to get green (now that's an interesting one)
21:58:39  <Bjarni> Ihmemies: it's being converted to unicode
21:59:00  <Ihmemies> wtf-8 sucks
21:59:07  <Ihmemies> thanks for the info anyways
21:59:46  <Bjarni> XeryusTC: err, I tried spaceArch once and I will never play anything like that again
22:00:04  <XeryusTC> Bjarni: it is not to play, if you click it i will get a vote
22:00:29  <XeryusTC> and if i'm #1 with votes i get 70k planets, if if #2-#5 i get 50k planets :)
22:00:31  <Bjarni> it takes too much of my time to play a game where I can't simply save, close the game and then resume later without anything happening in between
22:01:13  <Bjarni> why would you want 70k planets?
22:01:37  <Bjarni> I think we got plenty of problems with just one, then 70k planets would have 70k as many problems :p
22:02:09  <Bjarni> also wtf is the voting thing for a weird idea?
22:02:17  <XeryusTC> because i can upgrade my system and get rid of all those problems :P
22:02:36  <XeryusTC> its just to get people to their game i think
22:02:54  *** Dred_furst [i=nn@user-1380.lns1-c9.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit ["( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.0 :: www.XLhost.de )"]
22:02:58  <Bjarni> then upgrade Earth while you are at it and remove all terrorists, crime and so on
22:03:20  <XeryusTC> normally you would just be my vassal if you subscribe, it means some protection from me and i could get a higher lvl if you get big enough
22:03:30  <Bjarni> not to mention pollution
22:03:36  <XeryusTC> Bjarni: luckily my system doesn't have population
22:03:41  <XeryusTC> it's just for mining :)
22:04:27  <Bjarni> so you got a whole lot of planets of mining robots?
22:05:03  <XeryusTC> basicly, yes
22:05:31  <XeryusTC> earns me a lot of money so i can train some weird guy and earn more money :)
22:05:32  <Bjarni> that must be lonely
22:05:33  <Ihmemies> population sucks anyways
22:05:50  <Bjarni> not really
22:05:53  <XeryusTC> i got a federation, those people have a population
22:05:53  <Ihmemies> they can live in space stations if needed!
22:06:07  <Bjarni> you need a population to commit genocide
22:06:08  <XeryusTC> and ofcourse i have space ships which must be human controlled
22:06:12  <Ihmemies> heh.. in moo2 it was fun when some races ate rock ;P
22:06:19  <Ihmemies> they would be perfect for mining ops
22:06:36  <XeryusTC> but you can do a lot of stuff
22:06:48  <XeryusTC> and i "happen" to be of the mining race
22:07:00  <XeryusTC> most people are off a worthless race :)
22:07:56  <Bjarni> in MoO3, rock eating aliens will eat mining output so you still have to feed them, but it makes an ultra rich planet even better since it will produce outstanding production AND "food"
22:09:32  <XeryusTC> lol, there is a major breakdown in the IT system of one of the biggest dutch radio stations, those guys always just improvise, but now they don't have their jingles either so they are doing everything as the show goes
22:11:18  <Bjarni> reminds me of an incident where they had computer problems on a local radio station here. They could still play jingles, but they had switch places, so they didn't know which button that made which sound anymore :D
22:13:00  <Bjarni> it was the same radio station that should give a weather forecast ones and it went something like "and now we should have a weather forecast, but the paper is gone, but it was something like that it will be sunny and warm"
22:13:09  <XeryusTC> i noticed something simular at multiple radio stations, they had new equipment and couldn't find their jingles anymore :)
22:13:28  <XeryusTC> ah, the IT problem seems to be fixed, they're playing their second jingle now
22:13:44  <XeryusTC> Bjarni: lol
22:13:48  <jong_> XeryusTC: what radio station?
22:14:15  <jong_> XeryusTC: radio 3?
22:14:27  <XeryusTC> they have "side-chicks" at that show, they have to read the weather forecast and make useless comments from time to time, but they always fight about who not to read the forecast
22:14:30  <XeryusTC> jong_: 538
22:14:39  <jong_> XeryusTC: but the problems have resolved then?
22:14:42  <Bjarni> <XeryusTC>	i noticed something simular at multiple radio stations, they had new equipment and couldn't find their jingles anymore :) <-- I think it was a practical joke on the radio station since it only happened to the guy, who tells all the jokes
22:14:57  <XeryusTC> the forecasts have some sexual additions ;)
22:15:13  *** GW[school] [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:15:31  <jong_> XeryusTC: nice :)
22:15:34  *** GW[school] [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
22:15:52  <XeryusTC> im off to bed
22:15:53  <Tobin> Bjarni: Morning.
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22:16:04  *** XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|bed
22:16:05  <Bjarni> oh crap
22:16:09  <Bjarni> Tobin is here
22:16:10  <Tobin> :)
22:16:11  <Xeryus|bed> cya guys
22:16:13  <Bjarni> it's time for bed
22:16:17  <Xeryus|bed> Bjarni: kickban >:)
22:16:22  <Tobin> Bjarni: One moment.
22:16:40  <Bjarni> no, it's just that Tobin is Australian and when he joins, it reminds me to go to bed
22:16:52  <Bjarni> the time usually fits (or I should have went to bed a bit earlier)
22:16:53  <Tobin> Bjarni: I'm still getting dynlib errors when running non-debug builds of the yapf branch.
22:17:06  <Tobin> I'm up earlier than usual today though.
22:17:18  <Bjarni> to reach me?
22:17:42  <Tobin> No, because I've got a production meeting at 9:30 :(
22:17:55  <Tobin> So I'm up early to spend time talking to artistic types.
22:18:00  *** Fujitsu [n=fujitsu@c211-28-183-112.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd
22:18:31  <Bjarni> well, after all, now we DO have the Australian invasion
22:18:48  <Bjarni> well, what dynlib error
22:18:53  <Tobin> Anyway, to get to the point, I can't see what needs to be changed in the dang Makefile to get non-debug builds of yapf to work.
22:19:00  <Bjarni> it's like "OTTD crashed. Fix it"
22:19:18  <Tobin> Heh.
22:19:23  <Tobin> It's our old friend "dyld: lazy symbol binding failed: lazy pointer not found"
22:19:31  <Bjarni> ahh
22:19:34  <Fujitsu> Bjarni, I can invade.
22:20:22  <Bjarni> so it's not a dynlib problem, but a lazy pointer problem
22:20:42  <Tobin> Doesn't that indicate a problem with a library?
22:21:01  <Bjarni> well
22:21:04  <Bjarni> it could
22:21:17  <Bjarni> but it could also indicate a bad setting at compile time of the binary
22:21:39  <Bjarni> but debug builds work?
22:21:49  <Tobin> Non-debug builds work on PPC, right?
22:21:56  <Tobin> Yup, debug builds run fine.
22:22:21  <Bjarni> actually, I'm not using PPC for developing anymore
22:22:45  <Tobin> Oh?
22:23:26  <Bjarni> now I got the lazy pointer crap as well
22:23:32  <Bjarni> I wonder why I failed to get it until now
22:24:08  <KUDr> hmm
22:24:11  <Tobin> Only been building debug builds?
22:24:20  <Bjarni> no
22:24:32  <Bjarni> I didn't change Makefile.config, I just updated to the newest revision
22:25:42  <Bjarni> anyway I will look into this when I get time
22:25:58  <Tobin> OK.
22:26:04  <Bjarni> in short: I got a report for .. well, for you it's tomorrow
22:26:06  *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd
22:26:28  <Bjarni> for me it's the day after tomorrow, but since I'm heading for bed, it will not make such a difference
22:26:29  <Tobin> I've only given it a small amount of attention.
22:27:06  <Tobin> KUDr: What's left for the yapf branch?
22:27:41  <KUDr> some changes of settings - to allow more user friendly settings + modify savegame
22:27:56  <Tobin> Righto.
22:28:09  <KUDr> and solve morphos sizeof(bool) problem
22:28:10  <Tobin> And those changes will happen before merging?
22:28:23  <KUDr> should happen before, yes
22:28:45  <KUDr> otherwise it will cause lot of user problems -> reports
22:28:52  <Tobin> Couldn't you just #define bool to be some other handy type for morphos?
22:29:00  <Bjarni> weird. The crash report did not give any useful info at all
22:29:16  <Bjarni> only OS version and stuff like that
22:29:16  <glx> KUDr: I tried yapf in release build, it still prints a lot in console
22:29:29  <Bjarni> nothing regarding what happened in the actual app
22:29:42  <KUDr> yes, but if you define bool to be 4 bytes in C part then it crashes with BE CPU
22:30:00  <Tobin> Heh, it almost prints more to the console than it shows in the crash reporter.
22:30:04  <KUDr> glx: yes - also debug settings
22:30:15  <KUDr> thanks for reminding
22:30:55  <Bjarni> you know of debug(), right?
22:31:17  <KUDr> with that bool it can be reproduced using trunk (no yapf) and big endian CPU
22:31:48  <KUDr> Bjarni: yes, i know. I was too lazy to use it from beginning
22:32:46  <KUDr> anybody with PPC can fix the bool issues
22:32:56  <KUDr> and then also morphos will work
22:33:05  <KUDr> only the OS/2 has a problem
22:33:21  <KUDr> orudge doesn't have GCC 2.95 installed
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22:33:22  <Bjarni> this lazy pointer issue is weird
22:33:28  <KUDr> and he uses watcom
22:33:39  <KUDr> and watcom can't compile yapf
22:34:25  <KUDr> it is language issue with watcom - many C++ things it can't eat
22:36:07  <Bjarni> it's likely that I will not really have time to look at this pointer issue before the weekend
22:37:06  <Bjarni> I still think it's weird to use 4 bytes for a single bool
22:37:16  <KUDr> yes, it is
22:37:18  <Bjarni> when it in theory can be 32 bool
22:37:22  <Bjarni> +s
22:37:30  <KUDr> but if C++ compiler for PPC uses it
22:37:48  <KUDr> then the best way is to make it the same
22:37:59  <orudge> I was trying to get things to build with gcc the ohter day, KUDr
22:38:05  <KUDr> they did that decision due to performance
22:38:05  <orudge> The makefiles and build environment weren't working too nicely
22:38:18  <KUDr> so it could be acceptable for C part too
22:38:39  <KUDr> orudge: 2.95?
22:39:10  <Bjarni> actually I forgot what the problem in using 4 bytes is
22:39:31  <KUDr> easy:
22:39:40  <KUDr> addressing bool as byte
22:39:53  <KUDr> you get wrong value
22:40:29  <orudge> KUDr: No, some 3.x version
22:40:31  <KUDr> in intel (LE) you address the byte containing 0 or 1
22:40:33  <orudge> whichever one the innotek version was
22:40:37  * orudge can't remember off the top of his head
22:40:42  <Bjarni> but defining bool as 32 bit, then what is the problem. It should be 32 bit all over the code then
22:40:59  <KUDr> orudge: then look for extra settings for each OS
22:41:11  <orudge> Mmh?
22:41:14  <KUDr> there can be something what should be set for OS/2 too
22:41:16  <orudge> The problem I was having was with the build environment
22:41:18  <orudge> Yes, indeed
22:41:27  <orudge> I imagine the code itself shouldn't be too much of a problem
22:41:31  <orudge> but getting the makefile to work isn't fun
22:41:36  <KUDr> yes
22:41:51  <KUDr> unfortunatelly i can't help you with makefile
22:42:08  <KUDr> it is like random tea pieces for me
22:42:19  <Bjarni> I can, but now right now
22:42:22  <Bjarni> goodnight
22:42:25  <orudge> Ta ta
22:42:26  <KUDr> gn
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