Log for #openttd on 13th May 2006:
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00:04:34  <Sacro> morning Tobin
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06:50:50  <Darkvater> unfuckinbelievable
06:51:04  <Darkvater> it's not even 9AM and people are already bitching at me to get up
06:51:15  <amix> ;)
06:51:28  <Darkvater> fine, here I am
06:51:36  * Darkvater checks something
06:51:39  <Darkvater> peter1138: you awake?
06:54:37  <MiHaMiX> :D
06:57:02  <MiHaMiX> morning, btw
06:57:17  <MiHaMiX> I've just awakened
06:57:22  <amix> me too
06:57:25  <amix> working
06:57:28  <amix> :)
06:57:31  <amix> since 06
07:00:24  <MiHaMiX> jeez
07:00:32  <MiHaMiX> I went to sleep at 1am
07:00:46  <MiHaMiX> and that's why I got up this late :)
07:01:02  <MiHaMiX> usually I get up at 7 :)
07:05:36  <amix> where are you?
07:05:41  <amix> late?
07:05:45  <amix> 09 in the morning?
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07:07:31  <Darkvater> morning
07:07:43  <Darkvater> amix: feel sorry for ya
07:07:56  <Darkvater> the most curious thing is though that peter1138 is missin
07:09:26  <MiHaMiX> amix: central europe, hungary
07:09:52  * Darkvater slaps MiHaMiX
07:09:54  <Darkvater> Hungary
07:09:59  <MiHaMiX> aaaaaaargh, I broke WT2 yesterday
07:10:15  * MiHaMiX slaps darkvater with his broken shift
07:10:46  <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: but yes, Hungary
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07:10:58  <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: but Central Europe, too :P
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07:13:54  <amix> ahh
07:13:59  <amix> Norway here
07:14:02  <amix> :D
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07:17:03  <amix> i wish that the heatwave which was here, came back
07:17:06  <amix> :D
07:17:28  <MiHaMiX> are you feeling cold? :)
07:17:34  <amix> hehe
07:17:38  <amix> 5C outside now
07:17:41  <amix> ;p
07:17:56  <Darkvater> MiHaMiX: nah, the ce is not that biggie :)
07:17:56  <amix> was 23C etc until Friday.. yesterday
07:17:59  <amix> :D
07:18:10  <Fujitsu> Windows CE /is/ a biggie!
07:18:14  <Darkvater> did you see Slartibartfast's work amix ?
07:18:21  <amix> morphos rulez ;)
07:18:37  <Fujitsu> Not the HHGttG Slartibartfast?
07:18:38  <amix> Darkvater: whats that?
07:18:51  <Darkvater> Fujitsu: the same
07:18:52  <amix> i am not so often here, so I dont know
07:19:01  <Darkvater> hehe
07:19:09  <Fujitsu> Oh.
07:19:14  <Darkvater> amix: it's a character from a book
07:19:18  <Fujitsu> The Norweigan fjords?
07:19:23  <Darkvater> :)
07:19:27  <Fujitsu> Norweigian?
07:19:31  <Fujitsu> That's better.
07:19:36  <Darkvater> Norwegian
07:19:38  <Prof_Frink> s/book/radio show, book, TV show, film, towel.../
07:20:05  * Darkvater ponders how to do this suse 10.1 install
07:20:20  <Prof_Frink> And I suppose 'book' should be 'trilogy of five books and one short story'.
07:20:55  <MiHaMiX> Prof_Frink: I've the 5 books, which is the short story?
07:21:03  <Fujitsu> Hmm.
07:21:09  <Darkvater> the last one
07:21:09  <Fujitsu> Towel day's coming up, isn't it?
07:21:14  <Prof_Frink> Young Zaphod Plays It Safe
07:21:20  <Fujitsu> Oh. That one.
07:21:34  <MiHaMiX> Prof_Frink: hm.. I think I'll get that :)
07:23:18  * Darkvater curses
07:23:23  <MiHaMiX> ?
07:23:29  <Darkvater> I need to back up 60GB of stuff and nowhere to do
07:23:45  <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: I could offer you a safe storagee.
07:23:51  <MiHaMiX> s/ee/e/
07:24:01  <Darkvater> :)
07:24:06  <Darkvater> *fine*
07:24:12  * Darkvater postpones upgrade
07:24:13  <Darkvater> there
07:24:13  <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: it's happened that I have a little spare place
07:24:15  <Darkvater> :)
07:24:15  * Fujitsu tells Darkvater to upload it over a 28.8kbps modem to his computer.
07:24:19  <Fujitsu> Ubuntu, Darkvater.
07:24:21  <Fujitsu> Use the Ubuntu.
07:24:28  <amix> hehe
07:24:34  <amix> yes
07:24:34  <Darkvater> no I hate ubuntu
07:24:42  <amix> I am in Norway
07:24:45  <amix> Oslo
07:24:45  <amix> :)
07:24:46  <Darkvater> it has n0000000000000000b written all over it
07:24:55  <Darkvater> and feels like it too
07:25:18  <Darkvater> amix: you know they usually turn the two words around ;)
07:25:37  <MiHaMiX> amix: it's 18C outside :)
07:26:08  <MiHaMiX> amix: here, at Szeged
07:31:08  <amix> hehe
07:31:18  <amix> hehe
07:31:24  <amix> I am the oposite man
07:31:29  <amix> you could say
07:31:32  <amix> ;)
07:32:26  <amix> MiHaMiX: thats great.. we will have max 16C today ;)
07:32:41  <amix>
07:32:42  <Fujitsu> We had max 15C yesterday.
07:32:44  <amix> see
07:32:44  <amix> :D
07:32:56  <amix> in the north its even snowing still
07:32:59  <amix> :D
07:33:40  <amix> our summer starts at the end of June until August
07:33:44  <amix> 2 months allmost
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07:34:06  <amix> but the temps bearly goes over 24C during the summer ;) some rare days maybe
07:34:18  <amix> I like that ;)
07:35:03  <Fujitsu> Silly northern hemispherians.
07:35:12  <Darkvater> yes, it is out!
07:35:20  <Darkvater> the movie we have all been waiting for!!!
07:35:28  <Darkvater> Hot Latin Pussy Adventures 43 (c) Evasive Angels *DVDRiP* *XViD*
07:35:39  * Darkvater *rolls eyes*
07:35:41  <Fujitsu> Hahahahah
07:35:43  <amix> I only miss trams, subways and highways in openttd :))
07:35:52  <Fujitsu> Heheh
07:36:23  <MiHaMiX> amix:
07:36:29  <Darkvater> Meat My Ass (c) Northstar *DVDRiP* *XViD*
07:36:35  <Darkvater> ghe he
07:36:42  <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: from bH ? :)
07:37:02  <Darkvater> no,
07:37:16  <Darkvater> they come up with the best names though
07:37:19  <Darkvater> Im Only Squirteen (c) Red Light District *DVDRiP* *XViD*
07:37:46  <amix> MiHaMiX: nice :)
07:37:46  <Darkvater> hmm anyone seen Bloodrayne?
07:38:34  <Darkvater> it's supposed to be really crap but I don't know where it is on the crap-scale when compared with DOOM for example
07:40:13  <amix> I must say... I have tried openttd on morphos, windows and macosx .. and the winner is.. without me beeing a propaganda amigaos fan or anything like that. The morphos version of openttd is the best one. Especially as it allows full multitasking and runs pretty fast even on my G3 600MHz PPC Amiga compatible computer Pe
07:40:13  <amix> gII. OpenTTD rulez ;) the osx version is nice, but in fullscreen modus its horrible when it crash. Needs to boot whole osx etc.. ;)
07:40:51  <Darkvater> welcome morphos user #2 :)
07:40:56  <MiHaMiX> :DDD
07:41:02  <MiHaMiX> bbl, breakfast
07:42:46  <amix> ;)
07:43:05  <amix> Darkvater: hehe
07:43:08  <amix> there are more
07:43:21  <Darkvater> yes you and tokai|3
07:43:22  <amix> I have played against lots of Swedes using morphos
07:43:25  <amix> :)
07:43:32  <amix> ohh, here you ment
07:43:35  <amix> ahh :)
07:44:07  <Darkvater> is mpos popular in Sweden?
07:44:12  <amix> Darkvater: if morphos team just woke up, morphos could become a great os
07:44:16  <amix> Darkvater: yes
07:44:29  <Darkvater> sleeping beauty? :P
07:44:31  <amix> or its platform that is, PegasosII
07:44:39  <amix> Darkvater: something like that
07:44:42  <amix> :)
07:45:08  <amix> its the only alive os on PPC now, except for macosx that is...
07:45:20  <Darkvater> ic
07:45:24  <Darkvater> brb
07:45:26  <amix> amigaos4 is nice, but they have problems with having some new hardware to run it on
07:45:39  <amix> finding,...
07:47:21  <Zr40> er... linux runs on PPC too?
07:47:33  <Darkvater> back
07:48:07  * Darkvater compiles bridge-branch for celestar
07:48:14  <amix> yes
07:48:29  <amix> but what enduser wants to use linux?
07:48:32  <amix> ;p
07:48:40  <peter1138> morning
07:48:49  <Darkvater> 'ello sleepy-head ^^
07:48:53  <amix> morning
07:48:56  <amix> :D
07:48:58  <Zr40> me, for example? :P
07:48:58  <Darkvater> peter1138: got a question for ya
07:49:18  <peter1138> sup?
07:49:23  <Darkvater> peter1138: I see a new pnglib is out, and I finally solved the mysteries of static libraries with some help of kudr
07:49:40  <Darkvater> so shall I recompile all external libs as __fastcall or leave it as it is now?
07:49:43  <Darkvater> (__stdcall)
07:49:50  <peter1138> i have no idea :)
07:50:17  <peter1138> does it make a lot of difference?
07:50:38  <Darkvater> well fastcall is a bit faster, openttd is using fastcall
07:50:55  <Darkvater> we can also just do default cdecl calling
07:51:10  <Aeoris> [06:18:02] <@Aeoris> la rentabilidad es el porcentaje de beneficio respecto a las pérdidas
07:51:14  <Aeoris> oops
07:51:16  <Aeoris> sorry
07:51:28  <Darkvater> I was also going to ask you which freetype you exactly use (eg 2.1.10 or 2.2.1) and what modules we are going to use there
07:51:52  <peter1138> 2.1.10
07:51:57  <peter1138> however
07:51:59  <Darkvater> thought so
07:52:03  <peter1138> that was not a concious decision
07:52:15  <peter1138> it's "what comes with ubuntu"
07:52:15  <Darkvater> got scared by the 2.2.1 warning that your desktop will break? :)
07:52:51  <peter1138> I don't self-compile libraries, if I can avoid it
07:52:51  <Darkvater> I see
07:53:17  <Darkvater> 2.1.10 is good, although 2.2 is better. Cleaner interface
07:53:26  <Darkvater> I do have to say that the library is a MESS
07:53:42  <peter1138> well, we only use the interface within fontcache.c
07:53:43  <Darkvater> some really weird shit going on in the header files
07:54:02  <peter1138> yes
07:54:03  <Tobin> Best place for it really.
07:54:17  <Tobin> Much better than weird shit in the code.
07:54:20  <peter1138> the types are nasty too
07:54:24  * Tobin wanders off again
07:58:08  <peter1138> grrrg, bloody warnings
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08:01:12  <Darkvater> anyone wanna test a windows binary of the bridge-branch?
08:01:19  <Fujitsu> Urgh.
08:01:24  <Fujitsu> Not running Windows here, sorry.
08:01:41  <Darkvater> Celestar asked me to
08:02:02  <Tobin> And if he asked you to jump off a cliff?
08:02:17  <Darkvater> I'll get back to you on that
08:02:28  <Tobin> There should be a thread on the forums about the bridge branch, that'd get testers.
08:02:40  <Tobin> I've got a couple of screenshots to show off.
08:03:11  <Darkvater> that's what I'm making
08:03:35  <Tobin> Erm, actually I don't. My good ones show bridges over stations.
08:03:37  <Tobin> Goodoh.
08:04:41  <Fujitsu> Hahahh
08:04:51  <Darkvater> hmm what to call it?
08:04:56  <Darkvater> magicbridges?
08:05:29  <Zr40> bridge-o-rama
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08:08:18  <Tobin> Crazy-bridges-insane-branch!
08:09:09  <Tobin> Crossing bridges aren't in the repository are they?
08:09:12  <Darkvater>
08:09:31  <Tobin> Darkvater: "brdige branch"
08:10:06  <Darkvater> english is hard :P
08:10:07  <Darkvater> thx
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08:13:26  <Darkvater> < out
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08:17:31  <Darkvater>
08:17:33  <Darkvater> drool
08:17:50  <Zr40> weren't you out?
08:17:53  <CIA-3> bjarni * r4857 /branch/yapf/ (Makefile os/macosx/Makefile):
08:17:53  <CIA-3> -Fix: [YAPF, OSX] fixed the lazy pointer crash in OSX in release mode
08:17:53  <CIA-3>  it appears that OSX can't handle -s when mixing C and C++, so now the makefile manually strips the file after linking (in release mode only)
08:18:00  <Darkvater> oh yea
08:18:02  <Darkvater> hehe
08:18:28  <Bjarni> <Darkvater> <-- the ones across the water sucks, but the other ones.... nice
08:21:35  <peter1138> I think the AI should be told it doesn't need to bridge road with road
08:22:14  <peter1138> looks like a ripoff of pikka's bridge
08:22:53  <peter1138> and those buses are too large
08:23:11  <peter1138> (george's rv scale? heh)
08:23:50  <Darkvater> it's mostly put-together gfx from other artists
08:23:55  <Darkvater> damn I'm not here
08:25:50  <peter1138> lol
08:26:38  <peter1138>
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08:35:40  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: hi
08:35:40  <Tobin> peter1138: Teehee.
08:35:54  <Tobin> Seriously, we need a better AI.
08:35:58  <MiHaMiX> :D
08:36:26  <Tobin> Where are the people who were working on GPMI?
08:36:36  <Bjarni> Tobin: now you should be able to use YAPF without that lazy pointer crash
08:36:52  <Tobin> Bjarni: Non-debug builds of YAPF you mean?
08:36:57  <KUDr> wow
08:37:14  <KUDr> Bjarni: thanks
08:38:04  <KUDr> Bjarni: will you have time to try that 32 bit bool too?
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08:38:32  <KUDr> or you don't have PowerPC?
08:41:38  * Tobin pokes about on eBay
08:42:00  <Tobin> The worst part about sniping auctions is all the waiting you end up doing.
08:42:23  <Tobin> Even if you use something like Jbidwatcher to do the actual sniping.
08:42:38  <Tobin> Hmmm.
08:43:08  <Tobin> I wonder if you could mess with YAPF to get it to find build-able routes over land.
08:43:49  <Bjarni> <Tobin>	Bjarni: Non-debug builds of YAPF you mean? <-- yeah
08:43:51  <KUDr> Tobin: it is only about defining rules
08:44:03  <Tobin> KUDr: So, it'd be possible?
08:44:28  <Tobin> I think I'm going to have to try that, it'd allow the AI to be at least slightly smarter.
08:44:31  <KUDr> rules how to pass from one tile to another and what is the cost of building on that tile
08:44:40  <Bjarni> <KUDr>	Bjarni: will you have time to try that 32 bit bool too? <-- I never really understood how or what to test :s
08:45:03  <Zr40> isn't a bool by definition 1 bit?
08:45:03  <Tobin> Heh, this sounds suspiciously doable. I'm guessing there is something obvious I've missed though.
08:45:26  <Tobin> Zr40: It could be 1-bit but that'd be nasty on most architectures.
08:46:15  <Bjarni> Zr40: it usually is, but since computers can't access a single bit, more is needed (and wasted). Right now 8 bits are used in OTTD, but YAPF got code that relies on having it 32 bit since it's written in C++
08:46:19  <KUDr> Bjarni: easy: there is typedef unsigned char bool; in the stdafx.h. Take trunk (no YAPF) and change it to typedef unsigned long bool; and play (but on BE CPU)
08:48:01  <KUDr> Bjarni: i have bool only 1 byte, but C++ in GCC on morphos not
08:49:50  <Tobin> KUDr: If I try this YAPF for AI track planning idea is there anything in particular I should know about?
08:50:52  <KUDr> Tobin: C++ knowledge and understanding the YAPF concept. I can help you with the second
08:51:21  <Tobin> I've got a reasonable knowledge of C++, enough to understand the code I've looked at anyway.
08:51:28  <Tobin> It's been a while though...
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08:51:53  <KUDr> so try it
08:52:20  <Tobin> I might, I'll need to get a few assignments out of the way first though. :(
08:52:57  <KUDr> Tobin: define me interface you want to use and i can make you one skeleton
08:53:18  <Tobin> Well, I need to look at how the AI currently works before I can do that.
08:53:27  <KUDr> OK
08:53:36  <Tobin> I'll let you know if I do anything.
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08:53:57  <KUDr> ok
08:54:05  <Tobin> I mean, the AI currently places stations, passing sections and depots then joins them up with track.
08:54:21  <Tobin> So, better joining with track should be possible...
08:54:31  * Tobin looks at the AI's source code
08:54:39  <KUDr> yes, it should be easily doable (the connecting)
08:54:59  <Tobin> Righto, I've got a new project then. :)
08:55:20  <Tobin> I'll have a look at it tomorrow or maybe when I get home tonight if I'm not too tired/drunk.
08:55:47  <KUDr> so if you tell me: i need "Connect(Tile t1, Trackdir td1 , Tile t2, Trackdir td2);" it should be doable
08:57:53  <Tobin> KUDr: Thanks, I'll let you know.
09:03:34  <Tobin> Anyway, I'm going out for the evening.
09:03:40  <Tobin> Bye people.
09:03:44  <KUDr> bye
09:03:44  *** Tobin [] has quit []
09:18:17  <peter1138> hmm, when was the bridge branch last synced?
09:20:01  <Fujitsu> Who knows.
09:20:06  * Fujitsu pings Celestar.
09:20:07  <peter1138> 4775 it looks like
09:20:09  * Fujitsu checks logs.
09:20:13  <Fujitsu> Ahhj.
09:20:13  <Fujitsu> OK.
09:20:19  <Fujitsu> A while ago...
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09:23:55  <peter1138> conflicts o_O
09:24:17  <peter1138> 226 KB merge
09:24:19  <peter1138> o_O
09:24:59  <Dred_furst> Hey
09:33:02  <hylje> :o
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10:04:27  <CIA-3> KUDr * r4858 /branch/yapf/ (rail_cmd.c road_cmd.c station_cmd.c tunnelbridge_cmd.c): [YAPF] Fix: [YAPF] Fix: missing 'change track layout' notifications on convert rail type
10:04:49  <KUDr> gr
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10:05:59  <Mizipzor> hi all... anyone knows where i can legally get my hands on those files needed from a original ttd installation?
10:07:10  <Zr40> buy it
10:07:37  <Bjarni> "buy it" could be a problem
10:07:46  <Bjarni> it have been ages since I last saw it in any store
10:07:57  <Zr40> ...from somebody else who doesn't use it anymore (but who would do that?)
10:08:08  <Bjarni> morons?
10:08:32  <Mizipzor> you kinda get my point
10:09:14  <Mizipzor> but it seems thats just graphic files? right? except that couldnt openttd make own graphics to be a little more independet?
10:09:39  <Bjarni> we got long term plans for that
10:09:48  <Mizipzor> goodie :)
10:09:53  <Mizipzor> whats in that file?
10:09:55  <Bjarni> contains the sounds
10:10:15  <Bjarni> so it's kind of a collection of wave files or something similar
10:10:49  <Bjarni> in theory we can skip that file, but then the game will be mute
10:11:01  <Mizipzor> may be harder to make our own stuff to replace that :P
10:11:36  <Bjarni> that depends
10:11:49  <Bjarni> what quality do we want and so on
10:12:25  <hylje> ask some soundbank for a donation? =)
10:12:36  <Mizipzor> ive just switched from windows to linux, therefor i want to switch from ttd to openttd to... thats how i found out about this btw
10:13:11  <Bjarni> hylje: soundbank?
10:13:41  <hylje> a company or foundation keeping a collection of sound effects for sale
10:13:43  <Bjarni> you mean we can have sound accounts and if we give them a lot of sounds into our account, we simply wait and get even more?
10:14:01  <hylje> i believe most movies and games use such sources
10:14:20  <Mizipzor> hylje, yes they do... although the big ones make thier own...
10:14:24  *** RoySmeding [] has quit ["kthxbye"]
10:14:25  <hylje> yep
10:14:41  <Mizipzor> hehe i love it when you see some cheap movie/game and hear some sound youve heard in a ton of other places :P
10:14:41  <Bjarni> how tricky will it be to make our own anyway?
10:14:43  <Darkvater> Mizipzor: if you have TTD then OpenTTD is working. Just copy the files
10:15:03  <hylje> Bjarni: need people with high quality portable recorder+microphone
10:15:04  <Bjarni> I mean, I already got audio recording of several sounds
10:15:12  <Mizipzor> Darkvater, i tried but when i tried to start it said was corrupted...
10:15:18  <hylje> Bjarni: and then some travel to collect sounds
10:15:55  <Darkvater> Mizipzor: corrupted or missing?
10:16:05  <hylje> if higher quality sounds are done, i think we should implement 3d sound
10:16:12  <hylje> so we could have ambience
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10:16:27  <Darkvater> Mizipzor: because if corrupted the game will still work
10:16:33  <hylje> like train can be heard going from other side to other
10:16:54  <Mizipzor> $ openttd
10:16:54  <Mizipzor> Error: Cannot open file '/usr/share/games/openttd/data/'
10:16:54  <Mizipzor> Your file is corrupted or missing!
10:17:10  <Bjarni> <hylje>	Bjarni: and then some travel to collect sounds <-- well, I already did some travelling and got some recordings. I think they are ok quality as well as stereo
10:17:10  <hylje> i think its missing
10:17:23  <hylje> Bjarni: :>
10:17:23  <Darkvater> Mizipzor: that is missing
10:17:38  <Mizipzor> Darkvater, it is in /usr/share/games/openttd/data according to dir
10:17:48  <Mizipzor> Darkvater, should i place it somewhere else?
10:17:55  <Darkvater> does it have the right case?
10:18:08  <Darkvater> eg and not or ample.CAT
10:18:30  <Bjarni> if it's ample.CAT, I would say that it failed big time :p
10:18:38  <Darkvater> you get the point
10:18:53  <Mizipzor> Darkvater,
10:19:09  <Mizipzor> i think its alright
10:19:27  <Darkvater> are you root?
10:19:47  <Bjarni> missing read permission?
10:19:48  <Mizipzor> not when i run it no... told i shouldnt do more stuff than necessery as root
10:19:56  <Mizipzor> -rw---------- isnt that read?
10:20:01  <Mizipzor> read write?
10:20:01  <Bjarni> yeah, root should do as little as possible
10:20:02  <Darkvater> yeas read for ROOT only
10:20:17  <Mizipzor> oh... well i copied them from my mounted ntfs so :P
10:20:21  <Mizipzor> i chown it then?
10:20:52  <Darkvater> chmod 444 *.grf
10:20:54  <Bjarni> the same goes for the other files. You need permission to read them for it to work
10:20:57  <Darkvater> and your cat
10:21:05  <Darkvater> or 644 whatever :)
10:22:06  <peter1138> whee, pointless desktop shadows
10:22:13  <Mizipzor> yey, working :)
10:22:19  <Mizipzor> gotta try it out :)
10:22:39  <peter1138> eek, fullscreen ottd is... weird
10:23:04  <Darkvater> ?
10:24:35  <Bjarni> fullscreen works perfectly here
10:24:44  <peter1138> with xcompmgr running
10:24:54  <Bjarni> what is xcompmgr?
10:25:11  <hylje> X Computer Manager i think
10:25:17  <Bjarni> all I see is xcom (garbage since you didn't null terminate)
10:25:26  <peter1138> composite
10:25:38  <Triffid_Hunter> xcompmgr is composite manager, meaning transparencies basically
10:25:42  <hylje> k
10:26:04  <Bjarni> so you can see your desktop though the game "window" in fullscreen?
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10:27:54  <Darkvater> ah that never worked for me
10:28:13  <Darkvater>
10:28:14  <Darkvater> I get this
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10:28:56  <peter1138> that's what i get in fullscreen mode
10:28:59  <peter1138> it's ok in a window though
10:32:00  <Bjarni> not really
10:32:13  <Bjarni> image running two games at once and the windows overlap
10:32:23  <Bjarni> which screen got the train?
10:32:24  <Bjarni> :)
10:32:32  <peter1138> ...
10:32:43  <peter1138> by "it's ok" i mean "it works"
10:32:57  <Bjarni> ahh
10:33:11  <Bjarni> but I don't like that much transparency annyway
10:33:32  <peter1138> that's a bug, somewhere
10:33:40  <peter1138> it shouldn't be like that
10:33:55  <Triffid_Hunter> peter1138: i set my system up so that the active window is 100% opaque.. prevents those sorts of things ;)
10:34:03  <peter1138> Darkvater: with my simpler utf8 decoding, i need casts :(
10:34:39  <Darkvater> what kind of casts?
10:34:54  <peter1138> char ** -> const char **
10:35:37  <Darkvater> why do you need to cast to const? isn't that implicit/
10:35:46  <peter1138> apparently not
10:36:09  <peter1138> (char *) is a different type of pointer to (const char *)
10:36:14  <peter1138> apparently
10:37:10  <Darkvater> well it is, it is non-const
10:37:11  <Darkvater> ;p
10:37:19  <peter1138> indeed
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10:37:52  <peter1138> uint32 c; string += Utf8Decode(&c, string);
10:37:54  <peter1138> or
10:37:58  <peter1138> c = Utf8Decode(&string);
10:38:17  <peter1138> hmm
10:38:36  * Vornicus generally dislikes transparent windows
10:38:44  <Darkvater> well the 2nd looks a lot better
10:39:13  <peter1138> 'cept in the existing patch i do "uint32 c; int b = Utf8Decode(&c, string); if (b <= 0) break; string += b;"
10:39:31  <peter1138> Darkvater: that's what i thought, except for the casts :(
10:39:43  <Darkvater> so you need to cast string?
10:39:53  <peter1138> if string is a const char *, no
10:39:59  <peter1138> if string is a char *, yes
10:40:01  <Darkvater> to const? isn't it changed insidie utf8decode
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10:40:26  <peter1138> the pointer is changed, the data the pointer points to isn't
10:41:14  <Darkvater> ah so you read string?
10:42:41  * Vornicus fiddles with Mac's Folder Actions tools, finds them far more powerful than he imagined
10:42:48  <Darkvater> char* const *chr as declaration?
10:46:16  <peter1138> no, i need to move the pointer
10:48:47  * Vornicus tries to figure out how to add something to the context menu
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10:51:36  <Darkvater> bleh
10:54:00  <peter1138> so the code is nicer (& less changed) but needs... 4 casts for the times it's used with a non-const char *
10:54:48  * peter1138 ponders fixing the potential buffer overflows
10:56:09  <Darkvater> or you could just leave out the whole const thing ;p
10:56:19  <peter1138> no
10:56:27  <peter1138> because then you need to cast the const char *s :p
11:00:42  <peter1138> scrap that
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11:00:54  <peter1138> adding a length check to it all is loads of work ;p
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11:14:47  <peter1138> hmm
11:14:51  <peter1138> i've got a pathfinder issue
11:15:32  <peter1138> it's not pathfinding over town-owned level crossings
11:17:15  <peter1138> if ((IsTileType(tile, MP_STREET) && !HASBIT(tpf->railtypes, GetRailTypeCrossing(tile))) ||
11:17:21  <peter1138> !HASBIT(tpf->railtypes, GetRailType(tile))) {
11:17:24  <peter1138> that smells to me
11:18:01  <peter1138> the first will equate to 0
11:18:05  <peter1138> er, false
11:18:18  <peter1138> so it'll do the GetRailType() check when it shouldn't
11:19:48  <Mizipzor> when i take a screenshot, where is it saved? i cant seem to be able to find it
11:20:24  <Vornicus> on Mac at least it is saved in the application directory
11:21:38  <Mizipzor> im on gentoo linux
11:22:40  <Mizipzor> anyways, i got a problem with these signal lights... i must have missunderstood how to use them... since they dont work as i expected... so i figured the best way to explain was with a screenshot
11:24:26  <peter1138> svn up
11:24:27  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4859 /trunk/pathfind.c: - Pathfinder: fix issue with train pathfinding over level crossings.
11:24:28  <peter1138> uh
11:24:37  <peter1138> w/w :)
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11:38:55  <Tron> Darkvater? Celestar?
11:39:29  <Fujitsu> Hi Tron.
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11:40:42  <peter1138> morning tron
11:40:55  <Tron> it's well past morning
11:41:00  <Tron> and i'm /slightly/ upset
11:41:03  <peter1138> uhhh
11:41:04  <peter1138> so it is
11:41:26  <Fujitsu> Tron, what's up?
11:42:00  <Tron> nothing of your concern. i have to talk to Celestar and/or Darkvater
11:42:13  <Fujitsu> Aha. OK.
11:42:48  <peter1138>
11:42:59  <peter1138> ^ i wonder how to handle the buttons in the order window
11:43:17  <Fujitsu> Hmm.
11:44:01  <peter1138> cropping the text is easy, but then it's cropped, heh
11:44:13  <Fujitsu> Hehehehe. I nice issue.
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12:03:48  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4860 /trunk/train_cmd.c: - NewGRF: remove a missed extern for _traininfo_vehicle_pitch
12:04:59  <MiHaMiX> hmm..
12:05:06  <MiHaMiX> 2nd attacker within 2 hours :)
12:05:11  <peter1138> oh?
12:06:34  * peter1138 > tesco
12:09:11  <Mizipzor> anyone knows where screenshot are saved under linux?
12:09:22  <MiHaMiX> they tried a dictionary attack on one of my servers :)
12:09:39  <MiHaMiX> Mizipzor: installed from package or by manually?
12:10:05  <MiHaMiX> Mizipzor: i think that should be stored under the user's home directory
12:10:12  <MiHaMiX> Mizipzor: so look around there
12:11:22  <Mizipzor> cant find anything in my home directory
12:11:55  <MiHaMiX> Mizipzor: even in hidden dirs, such as .openttd ?
12:13:00  <Mizipzor> that could be it :P ill just dig up the hidden directory then
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12:14:35  <KritiK> [15:43] peter1138: cropping the text is easy <-- it's more simple: ukrainian translator should modify captions to fit buttons
12:15:03  <Fujitsu> We have a Ukrainian translator?
12:15:28  <KritiK> seems so ;)
12:15:28  <MiHaMiX> yes, we do have.
12:15:40  <Fujitsu> Wow.
12:15:45  * Fujitsu likes Cyrillic.
12:15:49  <MiHaMiX> Fujitsu: ukrainian is the first utf-8 language
12:16:02  <Fujitsu> Odd language to start with.
12:16:25  <MiHaMiX> Fujitsu: next one is croatian, and if I can manage to make WT2 stable enough I'll give rights to wannabe russian translators as well :)
12:16:44  <Fujitsu> Wow.
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12:18:16  <Mizipzor> there :) my screenshot is uploaded
12:18:54  <Fujitsu> Where, Mizipzor?
12:19:04  <Mizipzor>
12:19:13  <Mizipzor> sorry :P forgot the link
12:19:23  * Fujitsu looks.
12:19:24  <Mizipzor> anyways, see the train there? waiting to get into the station?
12:19:37  <Fujitsu> That's very very small.
12:19:42  <Fujitsu> Yes, I can just see it.
12:19:42  <Mizipzor> the train on the left was on the station, the other lane was free... but still that train that waits chooses not to take the free lane
12:20:01  <Fujitsu> Ahh.
12:20:09  <Mizipzor> i wanted to achieve that with those presignals... but apparently ive done something wrong :P
12:20:09  <Fujitsu> You need to use presignals.
12:20:21  <Mizipzor> i just took a screenshot... can you edit the resolution of those?
12:20:37  <Fujitsu> I think photobucket is being silly with it.
12:20:43  <Mizipzor> bah!
12:20:48  <Mizipzor> is there a better place to post it?
12:21:54  <Mizipzor> the screenshot i mean
12:22:00  <Fujitsu> Nothing really publicly accessible. Perhaps DCC it to me?
12:23:21  <Fujitsu> From what I can see, those aren't really presignals.
12:23:25  <Fujitsu> Have you looked at
12:23:30  <Mizipzor> yup...
12:23:46  <Mizipzor> horizontal yellow bar
12:23:50  <Fujitsu> Yes.
12:24:06  <Fujitsu> The signal that the train is half-way through should have a horizontal yellow bar.
12:24:07  <Fujitsu> Does it?
12:24:31  <Mizipzor> yes
12:25:11  <Mizipzor> get back to me when youve got a better look at the scenario :)
12:26:21  <Fujitsu> OK.
12:26:32  <Vornicus> it is too small, I cannot read it
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12:28:13  <Mizipzor> Vornicus, want me to send it to you? or do you know a good quick file upload service?
12:28:31  <Fujitsu> Oh.
12:28:33  <Fujitsu> OK.
12:28:36  <Fujitsu> I see why.
12:28:43  <Mizipzor> tell me ! :)
12:29:09  <Fujitsu> The two signals at the entrance to the station (one of which is being waited at) need to be presignal exits (vertical grey bar, two right-clicks).\
12:29:42  <Mizipzor> ok, i edited that, see if its works better
12:29:55  <Mizipzor> any idea why the trains keep entering the train depot?
12:30:20  <Mizipzor> every lap around the track it goes into the depot for no reason at all :P gets out again at once and complete another round
12:30:35  <LIIT> 'wait_oneway_signal = 0' << shouldn't this make the trains wait forever for a green light, and not reversing ?
12:30:38  <Fujitsu> To get serviced?
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12:31:43  <Mizipzor> do they need to get serviced?
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12:32:37  <Mizipzor> btw, new signal setup didnt work :( stopped a train at the station and a new train there still wants to take the red light route
12:34:58  <Mizipzor> exact same scenario but the light which it is wating at is an exit light... the one besides it (the other station lane) is also an exit light
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12:37:43  <Mizipzor> new screenshot uploaded (good size): Transport, 2nd Sep 1954.bmp
12:38:03  <LIIT> spaces in url should be converted to %20 :-)
12:38:14  <gradator> and bmp to png :p
12:38:17  <Aeoris> bmp? can you upload it in a normal format?
12:38:40  <Mizipzor> i thought bmp was normal :P
12:38:41  <Singaporekid> Try two way signals at the entrance
12:38:48  <Singaporekid> It's huuuge!
12:39:08  * LIIT loves png
12:39:12  <Mizipzor> if its not normal, how come its the default size when saving screenshots?
12:39:51  <Singaporekid> Because it's bmp, and it smells
12:39:52  * yanek .oO( ... or use yapf)
12:40:14  <Singaporekid> Then why do people post screenshots in png? :P
12:41:05  <Mizipzor> i mean default format
12:41:06  <LIIT> because they also love png ? :-)
12:41:22  <Mizipzor> it worked when making exits two way btw... how come? makes no sense to me :P
12:41:26  <LIIT> aye, bmp is default in oTTD - a bit weird actually
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12:45:41  <Mizipzor> new screenshot, sorry for bmp :P forgot...
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12:46:16  <Mizipzor> in this scenario here, the train for some reason entered that depot (maintance/service?) but after that it should continue forward to the station seen in the top left corner
12:46:40  <Mizipzor> instead, as seen, it takes another way, back to the station where it just where, the station down right in the image
12:47:04  <Mizipzor> why does it do that? takes another trip around the course for no apparent reason? have i screwed up more with the signal works?
12:47:09  <LIIT> what does it goto say ?
12:47:35  <LIIT> when it leaves the station, what does the train say it's heading for ?
12:47:52  <Mizipzor> ill check next time it does it
12:48:27  <LIIT> it might have left the station to get serviced, and hence it isn't finished at the first station
12:49:40  <Mizipzor> when it leaves the station it says its going for the depot...
12:49:56  <Mizipzor> hmm, and yes, it got some cargo left in it :P
12:50:01  <LIIT> ok, and what when leaving the depot ?
12:50:05  <Mizipzor> damn that service must have been urgent :P
12:50:26  <Mizipzor> it says its heading back to the station where it just were, to complete the unload
12:51:17  <LIIT> oki - what you do, is you add a order after the station, goto depot, and put it on service
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13:07:42  <LIIT> 'wait_oneway_signal = 0' << shouldn't this make the trains wait forever for a green light, and not reversing ?
13:07:51  <LIIT> reverse*
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13:36:17  <Sacro> afternoon all
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13:51:24  <UnderBuilder> breaking the silence... what happen to tt-forums?
13:51:43  <Singaporekid> Nothing!
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13:51:48  <White_Rabbit> it still gives ping replies :S but it won't load
13:52:37  <Sacro> [14:37] <+SpComb> Sacro: orudge is fixing the database
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13:52:49  <SpComb> :o
13:52:49  <White_Rabbit> thanks
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13:53:31  <SpComb>
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14:02:23  <peter1138> hi
14:02:55  <White_Rabbit> hi to you too
14:03:05  <roboman> hewoo
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14:17:07  * Vornicus continues fiddling with applescript, trying to figure out how to go about doing what he needs
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14:20:53  <peter1138> uh oh
14:20:57  <peter1138> we've got a terraform bug
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14:22:38  <Vornicus> ?
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14:23:44  <peter1138> you can lower ground with tracks on
14:24:21  <hylje> omg
14:25:10  <glx> only with build on slope :)
14:26:12  <roboman> are you talking about the autoslope feature of ttdp peter
14:26:25  <roboman> saying that ottd cant do it
14:26:35  <peter1138> no
14:26:43  <roboman> ok
14:26:53  <peter1138> i can do it
14:26:56  <peter1138> i shouldn't be able to
14:27:10  <roboman> so you are saying you have created it accidently
14:27:29  <roboman> or someone else has
14:27:42  <glx> peter1138: it's possible only for a particular tile configuration
14:29:07  <UnderBuilder> I noted that bug. But I only can in certain slopes
14:29:23  <peter1138> roboman: don't think it was me
14:29:44  * roboman corrected himself
14:30:47  <peter1138> crap
14:30:52  <peter1138> diesel railcar is too slow ;(
14:30:56  <peter1138> 53mph
14:35:19  <Mizipzor> what must i do in order to get 100% transported?
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14:35:49  <glx> Mizipzor: you mean 100% transported in industry window ?
14:36:02  <hylje> 100% rating
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14:37:37  <Mizipzor> "local rating of transport service"
14:38:07  <Mizipzor> it says by my iron ore mine... iron ore: very poor (22%)
14:38:22  <hylje> yep
14:38:29  <Mizipzor> even though the train has to wait there to pick it up... i should get everything with me :P or does the rating take anything else into account?
14:38:50  <hylje> you should have at least two trains to have a >good rating
14:39:03  <glx> you should always have a train loading
14:39:35  <peter1138> but waiting it bad
14:39:37  <peter1138> *is
14:39:51  <Mizipzor> huh? so instead of one train with the right amount of loading capacity to fit it all, i should have several mini trains to always have one loading?
14:39:52  <peter1138> shorter trains
14:40:12  <hylje> yes
14:40:21  <peter1138> but not too short
14:40:34  <peter1138> else you can't make money
14:40:54  <hylje> long enough to have the other train leave as full when other comes back
14:41:09  <Mizipzor> but every train needs money to run, if i fit only 3 or 4 carriage, it doesnt make enough profit to make... uh profit :P
14:42:07  <Mizipzor> right..
14:42:09  <hylje> it will
14:42:42  <Mizipzor> ive made my stations 5 tiles in length, is that to long?
14:42:59  <Ihmemies> 3-4 preferred.. depends on map size :P
14:43:23  <Mizipzor> i see...
14:44:06  <Ihmemies> more trains is better than longer trains, experts say
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14:44:36  <Mizipzor> an iron ore mine produces 80 tones of ore per month... one way trip is roughly ~25 tiles (not counting stations)... could you ttd gurus quickly figure out how long the trains should be? :P or is that something i should just experiment out?
14:45:05  <Mizipzor> Ihmemies, when is a train too short? :P 3 lorries? is that to short?
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14:48:08  <Ihmemies> I don't know :P I think 6 unit trains which fit to 3 square stations are already way too short :P but the game is what it is... so I have to use them :P
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14:48:56  <Mizipzor> yeah :P i would like to have these mammoth trains which take up like 30 tiles in length :P
14:50:30  <Mizipzor> so three tiles are about right? but then i dont make as much money, more trains cost more money... what do i exactly get out of having a high transport rating?
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14:53:12  <Mizipzor> do i get more paid for the transported goods with a better rating?
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14:58:38  * roboman bed
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15:05:42  <XeryusTC> are the forums down?
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15:13:49  <Mizipzor> hmm so if i should try to keep a train waiting (loading) at the station at all times... i should try to avoid these long trips?
15:14:02  <Mizipzor> but at the same time, its those that makes the most money... doesnt make much sense this...
15:14:59  <Vornicus> Adding more trains to a route helps
15:16:27  <Vornicus> Short trains that arrive and leave often make for the best cargo-rating increase; long trains cost less in maintenance
15:16:58  <orudge> Sort of, XeryusTC
15:17:02  <orudge> One of the tables is being repaired
15:17:06  <orudge> Unfortunately, it's the biggest table :p
15:17:14  <XeryusTC> orudge: ok
15:17:25  <Mizipzor> Vornicus, and, according to the wiki, higher rating makes the iron ore min (for instance) produce more cargo?
15:17:31  <Mizipzor> minre*
15:17:31  <XeryusTC> so i dont have to expect it is up in the comming 3 hours?
15:17:39  <Mizipzor> mine* (damn keyboard)
15:17:50  <Vornicus> A higher rating means a larger portion of the cargo will appear at your station
15:18:02  <orudge> I would hope it is back up before then, XeryusTC
15:18:11  <Mizipzor> i see
15:18:21  <Vornicus> It does not necessarily mean that the mine will increase its output; there is some discussion on the forums about that.
15:18:39  <Mizipzor> yeah but if i have a 22% rating, i should have something more to take out fgrom it :P
15:18:48  <XeryusTC> orudge: ok
15:18:55  <Mizipzor> so, a real short trip with a couple of three tile trains make for the best?
15:19:26  <Vornicus> short trips are not good for profits.  If necessary, use more trains to get more complete coverage while other trains take a very, very long journey.
15:20:58  <Mizipzor> you mean the feedforward thing? many short trains take a short trip with the cargo to a central station, there i dont have to care about the rating since its just my station in the middle of nowhere, there a long train makes a long trip across the map... right?
15:21:11  <Vornicus> no, no
15:21:16  <Mizipzor> bummers :P
15:21:19  <Vornicus> feeders don't really work in this game
15:21:31  <Mizipzor> oh ok...
15:21:36  <Vornicus> what you do is you make a lot of trains that go /directly/ from the pickup to the dropoff
15:21:44  <Mizipzor> i see
15:22:32  <Mizipzor> but... if a train cost, say, 1000 a day, and it takes 10 days to reach the destination, i need to make more than 10000 a trip?
15:22:34  <Vornicus> And they can be as short or as long as you'd like
15:22:56  <Mizipzor> i made a lot of money in my last game but i got 'very poor' ratings everywhere
15:23:01  <Vornicus> Mizipzor: yes, but income increases linearly with distance
15:23:41  <Vornicus> and time travelled increases less than linearly with distance, in general
15:23:58  <Vornicus> so the amount of distance you cover increases your profits
15:24:02  <Mizipzor> if i try to keep the track in a straight line
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15:24:54  <Mizipzor> may i ask how long your typical train is?
15:26:20  <Mizipzor> so the system described here:,_setting_up_feeder_systems ... doesnt work all that well in-game?
15:26:27  <Vornicus> depends on the route, the volume of cargo, etc
15:26:35  <Vornicus> Not really.
15:26:46  <Vornicus> Because of the way the game works, it doesn't pay as much as it should
15:27:39  <Mizipzor> i see
15:28:33  <Mizipzor> i must get going now... but ill try some three tile station system later... and many trains with the length, see if i get better rating then, while still get enough money to survive :P
15:28:53  <Vornicus> I tend to use trains about four squares long
15:28:55  <Mizipzor> Vornicus, HUGE thanks for help, dude!
15:29:15  <Mizipzor> Vornicus, maybe ill try that to... gotta go now :) see ya later
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15:43:35  <peter1138> Born_Acorn: newstations!
15:44:15  <hylje> how unexpected
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15:52:04  <Born_Acorn> peter1138! newsounds!
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16:00:28  <peter1138> oh
16:17:32  <CIA-3> miham * r4861 /trunk/lang/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
16:17:32  <CIA-3> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-05-13 18:17:17
16:17:32  <CIA-3> czech - 10 fixed by Hadez (10)
16:17:32  <CIA-3> dutch - 10 fixed, 5 changed by habell (15)
16:17:32  <CIA-3> estonian - 63 fixed by t2t2 (63)
16:17:33  <CIA-3> finnish - 39 fixed by habazi (39)
16:17:35  <CIA-3> german - 17 changed by Neonox (13), chu (4)
16:17:55  <MiHaMiX> ukrainian  - 19 fixed by miham (19)
16:18:17  <ln-> who's habazi?
16:18:27  <MiHaMiX> ln-: a translator :)
16:18:43  <Vornicus> yey webtranslator
16:18:53  <Vornicus> now if only I spoke a language other than English
16:19:52  <MiHaMiX> Overall progress of the translations: 91% (6567 bad strings out of 73052 strings)
16:21:17  <ln-> MiHaMiX: hmm, your commit switched at least finnish.txt from latin-1 to utf-8, but that wasn't worth mentioning in the log message?
16:21:33  <Vornicus> MiHaMiX: that's impressive
16:22:09  <MiHaMiX> ln-: hmm.. really? shit :-(
16:22:20  <MiHaMiX> i have to revert the whole commit then :-(
16:22:53  <ln-> seems so to me, but please confirm that yourself before reverting.
16:23:01  <MiHaMiX> ln-: yes, it's utf8
16:31:07  <CIA-3> miham * r4862 /trunk/lang/ (czech.txt dutch.txt estonian.txt finnish.txt german.txt): [WebTranslator2] Fixed up last commit, which was pure utf-8 accidentally (grr, hate typos). Sorry again!
16:32:56  <MiHaMiX> hmm.. we should restore the changes done by the translators..
16:35:07  <hylje> :x
16:36:22  <MiHaMiX> ok, done.
16:36:38  <MiHaMiX> let's commit it again, this time in iso8859-15 :D
16:38:48  <CIA-3> miham * r4863 /trunk/lang/ (czech.txt dutch.txt estonian.txt finnish.txt german.txt):
16:38:48  <CIA-3> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-05-13 18:38:31
16:38:48  <CIA-3> czech - 10 fixed by Hadez (10)
16:38:48  <CIA-3> dutch - 10 fixed, 12 changed by habell (15), webfreakz (7)
16:38:48  <CIA-3> estonian - 63 fixed by t2t2 (63)
16:38:49  <CIA-3> finnish - 39 fixed by habazi (39)
16:38:51  <CIA-3> german - 17 changed by Neonox (13), chu (4)
16:38:51  <MiHaMiX> ok :)
16:38:57  <MiHaMiX> this must be ok now
16:39:05  <MiHaMiX> yes :)
16:40:49  <MiHaMiX> hehe.. cased strings are fucked up :D
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16:42:43  <MiHaMiX> but that's only affects czech
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16:43:46  <MiHaMiX> znikoz: hi
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16:51:45  <White_Rabbit> hey, does anyone want to test the new magic bridges in multiplayer conditions with me?
16:54:00  <White_Rabbit> not one out of 104? ;(
16:56:31  <MiHaMiX> sorry, don't count on me
16:56:54  <XeryusTC>
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17:02:42  <peter1138> Tron: _custom_sprites_base removal
17:03:17  <peter1138> i'm wondering how the change would affect non-vehicle vehicles
17:03:18  <peter1138> smoke etc
17:03:40  <MiHaMiX> XeryusTC: it's pretty interesting :)
17:04:04  <XeryusTC> it sure is
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17:11:28  <CIA-3> miham * r4864 /trunk/lang/czech.txt:
17:11:28  <CIA-3> [WebTranslator2] Updating languages to 2006-05-13 19:10:57
17:11:28  <CIA-3> Fixed czech (removed doubled cased entries with leading dot in casenames)
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18:11:05  <hylje> hmm how to reset company passwd
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18:27:29  <Sacro> XD
18:35:39  <hylje> HemuliCraft
18:35:42  <hylje> wth
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20:34:21  <glx> it's in the list under the dropdown
20:34:43  <peter1138> some times i think this game's developers don't play the game...
20:34:56  <Sacro> Bjarni: would Original Station sound better?
20:34:56  <Bjarni> I'm not sure if I really played for months besides testing stuff (not newstations, it appears). I have been kind of busy at uni
20:35:04  <hylje> cheese
20:35:05  <Bjarni> hmm
20:35:08  <Bjarni> yeah
20:35:12  <Bjarni> cheese station
20:35:15  <Bjarni> perfect
20:35:17  <hylje> agree
20:35:18  <Sacro> hylje: cheese would be more random
20:35:19  <Bjarni> I will go for that
20:35:37  <hylje> yes and randomness is fun
20:35:48  * Sacro thinks there should be a random world editable language pack
20:36:06  <Bjarni> even better: 4-7 random chars, that is generated each time the string is drawn
20:36:17  <Sacro> oooh, now that'd make things fun
20:36:22  <peter1138> that's too eas
20:36:24  <peter1138> y
20:36:24  <Sacro> and random grf offsets
20:36:43  <hylje> make a random name generator
20:36:51  <hylje> just for that string
20:37:48  <peter1138> Bjarni: actually newstations was committed last sunday
20:37:52  <Bjarni> new idea. When we get track quality, poor track should give units +-1 when drawn, so the trains shake as they drive
20:38:33  <hylje> =]
20:38:46  <Bjarni> <peter1138>	Bjarni: actually newstations was committed last sunday <-- I haven't played since last sunday. I have been too busy meeting deadlines for reports
20:38:51  <hylje> track quality might need some thinking
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20:40:12  <Sacro> new map array will help
20:42:16  <Bjarni> question: how do I enable newstations?
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20:42:46  <Bjarni> ohh, Afrikaan translation :)
20:42:56  <Bjarni> I know one person, who might use it
20:43:07  <Bjarni> though I don't think she knows OTTD :|
20:43:30  <ln-> Afrikaans
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20:43:40  <Bjarni> +s
20:43:57  <Bjarni> it should be somewhat Dutchlike
20:44:07  <ln-> yeah
20:44:13  <hylje> :o
20:44:23  <ln-> what?
20:44:34  <Bjarni> which mean a lot of inhumane sounds, but decent spelling
20:45:01  <ln-> hylje:
20:45:12  <hylje> i know :<
20:45:24  <Bjarni> wow
20:45:28  <Bjarni> that's an interesting page
20:45:33  <Sacro> Bjarni: to use newgrfs just add some gfrs into your data/ and openttd.cfg
20:45:53  <Bjarni> a foreign language explained in a completely different foreign language
20:46:05  <Bjarni> it's like encrypting an encrypted message
20:46:11  <Sacro> ln-: please dont post fi links :)
20:46:22  <Sacro> Bjarni: thats what i was thinking
20:46:53  <ln-> fine,
20:47:03  <Sacro> my ex's uncle used to encrypt all his documents in german, i had some interesting reading with my translator one night
20:47:14  <hylje> :o
20:47:18  <hylje> enigma
20:47:32  <Bjarni> ln-: great, now it's understandable :D
20:47:56  <Sacro> Bjarni: not where im sitting it isnt
20:48:15  <Sacro> i mean "Hoe gaan dit met Jou? - Hur mår du?"
20:48:16  <Bjarni> Sacro: well, I would just have read it in German and stolen all his secrets
20:48:27  <Sacro> i can now translate from 1 language i dont know to another i dont know
20:48:51  <Bjarni> though I don't care for a (for me) completely unknown man, who might do something in secret, like seeing a woman that his wife is not to know about or whatever
20:48:53  * Sacro could get a job as a non biased interpreter
20:49:01  <Bjarni> it's like it's boring when you don't know the guy
20:49:36  <Sacro> its always fun when a mate leaves his laptop alone at a party and you mirror his documents and settings folder
20:49:58  <Bjarni> Sacro: here is what you need to learn: "Ek kan nie Afrikaans praat nie"
20:50:02  <Bjarni> it's the truth
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20:50:18  <Bjarni> yet if you learn that sentence, it's no longer true as then you can say something
20:50:32  <peter1138> Bjarni: to enable newstations, get a GRF file with newstations in it. um. heh.
20:50:48  <Bjarni> ok
20:50:55  <Bjarni> hmm
20:51:00  <Sacro> all i need to know is, "Beer please", "Wheres the toilet" and "Do you speak english"
20:51:03  <Bjarni> where to get one...
20:51:27  <ln-> would a translation of OTTD into klingon be accepted?
20:51:34  <hylje> hax0r
20:51:36  <hylje> first
20:51:38  <Bjarni> Wat is jou naam? <-- fine mixture of English and Dutch
20:51:44  <Sacro> Bjarni:
20:51:59  <Sacro> ln-: sounds like fun
20:52:01  <Bjarni> hylje: we rejected leet as being silly
20:52:06  <hylje> :<
20:52:09  <hylje> why
20:52:13  <hylje> is it silly
20:52:22  <Bjarni> but Klingon is the language of a whole empire, so it's somewhat different
20:52:29  <ln-> i have a movie on DVD, which has subtitles in Klingon.
20:52:32  * Bjarni hides
20:52:40  <hylje> 1337 is the language of the h4x0r empire
20:53:01  <Bjarni> ln-: are you sure that it's not Finnish? They look kind of similar
20:53:03  <Bjarni> :P
20:53:05  * Bjarni hides
20:53:32  <ln-> i recognize the difference, yet barely.
20:53:45  <Sacro> could we have OpenTTDWAY ?
20:53:54  <hylje> gief .diff klingon<->finnish
20:54:22  <Bjarni> WAY?
20:54:34  <Bjarni> <--- wtf? Why do much shorter???
20:55:04  <Sacro> Bjarni: pig latin
20:55:30  <hylje>
20:55:32  <hylje> :<
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20:56:23  <Bjarni> that's in Afrikaans?
20:56:35  <Bjarni> o_O
20:56:38  <Bjarni> I can read it
20:58:18  <Sacro> lol
21:00:11  <Bjarni> I thought it was a South African language only, but here it says that 146k people in Namibia speaks it as well
21:01:21  <Sacro> isnt namibia in south africa?
21:01:42  <Bjarni> AFAIK it's a country of it's own
21:01:55  <Bjarni> in fact, I'm pretty sure that it's a country
21:02:11  <hylje> it is
21:02:20  <Sacro> yeah, in southern africa
21:02:23  <ln->
21:04:27  <Bjarni> yeah, it's a country and in fact it's where I thought it would be
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21:04:51  <Bjarni> I haven't forgotten geography :D
21:05:00  <hylje> grats
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21:05:21  <Bjarni> and I also know something about the country as well
21:05:26  <Bjarni> it's full of black people
21:05:33  <hylje> oh, really ?
21:05:44  <Bjarni> hmm
21:05:49  <Bjarni> I think so
21:06:16  <Bjarni> also it's not a political stable state
21:06:28  <Bjarni> and armed robberies are to be expected
21:06:36  <Bjarni> all in all, a typical African country
21:10:20  <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: and? they don't deserve OpenTTD? I should remove afrikaans language immediately from trunk?
21:10:24  <MiHaMiX> :)
21:11:25  <Bjarni> I was talking about Namibia, not South Africa
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21:11:45  <Bjarni> South Africa is different
21:12:00  <Bjarni> it's full of white people being beaten by black people as payback
21:12:04  <White_Rabbit> has the 'magic bridges' thread been deleted? is testing already over?
21:12:08  <Bjarni> or simply robbed
21:14:33  <peter1138> hmm
21:14:59  <peter1138> we malloc memory for every sound that's played? o_O
21:17:09  <peter1138> (we also read them from disk each time)
21:17:21  <peter1138> (well, from the OS's disk buffer)
21:17:29  <hylje> is ottd ported to N770
21:17:54  <Sacro> mmm, do fork while fork...
21:18:51  *** MrRexxie [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:24:47  <Bjarni> hylje: I'm not sure, but there is a pic of OTTD running on a S770 on my homepage
21:25:07  <Bjarni> upgrading to N770 should be fairly easy
21:25:24  <Bjarni> maybe it's just a matter of recompiling for the new target
21:26:07  <Bjarni> peter1138: you mean we malloc memory to store the sound, but we don't read from it again?
21:26:35  <peter1138> it's freed
21:26:50  <Bjarni> then what's the point?
21:26:59  <peter1138> it's a buffer for playing the sound
21:27:06  <Bjarni> ahh
21:28:17  <peter1138> we also convert from unsigned to signed every time
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21:36:34  <Eddi|zuHause> [13.05. 23:04] <Bjarni> AFAIK it's a country of it's own <- wasn't Namibia occupied by South Africa?
21:37:19  *** Neonox [] has joined #openttd
21:37:58  <Bjarni> good question
21:38:01  <Bjarni> I have no idea
21:38:38  <Bjarni> Africa is always at war, always has been and odds are that it will for years to come
21:38:47  <Bjarni> so it's not unlikely
21:42:06  <Eddi|zuHause> "South Africa occupied the German colony of South-West Africa during World War I and administered it as a mandate until after World War II, when it annexed the territory."
21:42:18  <Eddi|zuHause> "Namibia won its independence in 1990"
21:42:24  <ln-> "In 1966 the Marxist South-West Africa People's Organization (SWAPO) guerrilla group launched a war of independence for the area that was soon named Namibia, but it was not until 1988 that South Africa agreed to end its administration in accordance with a UN peace plan for the entire region. Namibia won its independence in 1990 and has been governed by SWAPO since."
21:42:27  <[Shaman]> << o_O
21:42:45  <Eddi|zuHause> according to that CIA page
21:43:47  <ln-> CIA-3: yeah, we're talking about you.
21:44:07  <Darkvater> bah, backing up all your stuff takes a while...
21:44:59  <Sacro> Darkvater: its quicker than backing up someone elses stuff at least
21:45:19  <Darkvater> tar cvf archive.tar ~/*
21:45:20  <Darkvater> ;p
21:45:24  <Darkvater> still it takes a while
21:45:36  <Sacro> dont compress it
21:45:36  <ln-> v is useless
21:45:46  <Darkvater> all day I've been busy copying ~100GB from one PC to the other
21:45:51  <Darkvater> ln-: I wanna see the progress
21:45:55  <Sacro> ln-: its useful to see progress
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21:46:05  <Darkvater> Sacro: just a tar isn't compression is it?
21:46:07  <ln-> yeah, but printing millions of lines slows things down a bit
21:46:12  <Darkvater> that would be czf or cjf
21:46:14  <ln-> no, it isn't.
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21:46:31  <Sacro> oh no, its just cf, sorry
21:46:50  <hylje> z and j are gzip and bzip2
21:46:50  <Darkvater> ln-: that is true
21:47:24  <MiHaMiX> bbl, good night
21:47:36  <Darkvater> hmm
21:47:52  <Darkvater> gn MiHaMiX
21:48:00  <Sacro> night MiHaMiX
21:48:28  <Darkvater> tfarago@Arrakis:~> du -sh
21:48:28  <Darkvater> 4.3G    .
21:48:29  <Darkvater> muhahha
21:48:33  <Darkvater> just fits on a DVD
21:48:48  <Darkvater> or that didn't count hidden folders?
21:49:15  <hylje> it should
21:49:33  <Darkvater> shit
21:49:41  <Darkvater> then my tar cmd didn't bck hidden folders
21:49:47  * Darkvater hunts for the proper switch
21:50:07  <Sacro> -a ?
21:50:36  <Darkvater> there is no -a
21:50:55  <Sacro> isnt there an archive switch
21:51:41  <ln-> Darkvater: probably you shouldn't have said ~/*, just ~/
21:51:49  <ln-> * excludes .folders
21:51:58  <Sacro> ~/*.*
21:52:15  <ln-> that excludes files that don't have a '.'
21:52:29  <Darkvater> ah
21:52:31  * Darkvater tries
21:52:46  <Darkvater> do you think the 4.3GB will fit on the dvd, or shall I gzip it?
21:53:01  <Darkvater> I can gzip it after I've made the tar, right?
21:53:10  <Sacro> yep
21:53:20  <Sacro> or bzip2 for higher compression
21:53:21  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... in DOS *.* included files where the file extension was empty
21:53:33  <Darkvater> Sacro: bzip takes too long :(
21:53:45  <Sacro> Darkvater: yeah, it does take longer
21:53:46  <Darkvater> ok, take 2 ;p
21:54:03  *** White_Rabbit [] has quit []
21:54:47  <ln-> Eddi|zuHause: DOS is Not Unix
21:55:01  <Eddi|zuHause> i do know that...
21:55:03  <Sacro> thats true
21:55:07  <ln-> bzip2 indeed takes *a lot* more time than gzip.
21:55:35  <Darkvater> damn, never know what to backup
21:55:35  <Eddi|zuHause> this is one of the reasons why i did never manage to switch to linux
21:55:42  <Darkvater> ~ is obvious, /srv/www as well
21:55:48  <Eddi|zuHause> it works somewhat different than dos at important places
21:55:50  <Darkvater> some files in /etc ...but what else
21:56:24  <Darkvater> Eddi|zuHause: it took me 3 really hard months over a year ago to make the switch but it was well worth it
21:56:44  <Darkvater> in certain places that is. I still bitch at both OS's where/when appropiate :)
21:58:31  <Sacro> i like Linux, just took me ages to find a distro i could be comfortable in
21:59:08  <Eddi|zuHause> the other reason is that i do not want to maintain 2 OSes on the same system, and cannot really get rid of Windows
21:59:12  <hylje> which one did you end up with
21:59:29  <Sacro> me? Arch Linux
22:02:38  <ln-> Eddi|zuHause: you can run DOS on VMware and access your files through a samba share. :)
22:03:13  <Eddi|zuHause> that is kinda ridiculous :p
22:03:37  <Eddi|zuHause> besides i do not really use DOS, but that is where i originally come from
22:03:43  <Sacro> dosbox is pretty useful
22:06:23  <Eddi|zuHause> i have used DOS since i can think... i have grown up with DOS... and windows is based on DOS, so i could carry my knowledge over to that... but i can carry hardly any of that long earned knowledge over to linux
22:07:05  <hylje> nt isnt so dos
22:07:20  <Sacro> and tbh, getting to grips with linux isnt that hard if you know dos
22:08:06  <Eddi|zuHause> the whole ground organization is a whole lot different
22:08:55  <Eddi|zuHause> at least too much to just install and run (even basic) things that i am so used to
22:09:30  <Sacro> running things is a lot easier, you dont have to navigate to the programs directory
22:09:36  <hylje> not rly, the package managers make stuff easy
22:09:50  <Sacro> yeah, pacman is fantastic
22:10:02  <Eddi|zuHause> you see... i would have to find a package manager first ;)
22:10:46  <hylje> most distributions come with one
22:11:09  <Eddi|zuHause> last time i tried linux, i had no internet (DSL) flatrate yet, so downloading stuff was kind of out of question
22:11:12  <ln-> most distributions have it comfortably in the menu.
22:11:37  <Eddi|zuHause> that may be a year ago or so
22:11:38  <Sacro> i prefer console based
22:11:43  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe more
22:12:34  <Eddi|zuHause> which is a 3rd reason why i never made it
22:13:18  <Eddi|zuHause> the 4th being that the linux distribution i had kinda crashed every odd minute
22:14:19  <Eddi|zuHause> what i _really_ need is a good tutorial
22:14:35  *** MrRexxie [] has joined #openttd
22:14:35  <Eddi|zuHause> what to do to get a proper linux set up
22:14:39  <Sacro> i've got some good PDFs
22:14:46  *** Fujitsu [] has joined #openttd
22:14:52  <Sacro> but the best bet is to get it setup, and install an IRC client and just ask questions
22:14:56  *** tokai|mdlx [] has joined #openttd
22:14:56  * peter1138 blinks
22:14:59  <peter1138> is it me
22:15:11  * Sacro pokes peter1138
22:15:14  <Sacro> seems like it
22:15:19  <peter1138> or are tunnel sounds only played for the first 4 train engines?
22:15:42  <Sacro> per game?
22:15:46  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah... 5th reason... i need a (physical) fork of my to still use it while installing linux ;)
22:15:48  <peter1138> engine types
22:16:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i would assume that it checks if it is a steam engine
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22:19:01  <Sacro> grr, windows is upset
22:19:20  <Eddi|zuHause> one thing that i am really starting to hate... trains in depots seem to always get priority over trains waiting at other signals
22:19:30  * peter1138 fiddles with newsounds
22:19:43  *** tokai|3 [] has joined #openttd
22:20:07  <Eddi|zuHause> we need those new signals we were discussing ;)
22:21:18  *** Trippledence_ [] has joined #openttd
22:21:26  <Sacro> and the new depots idea i mentioned earlier
22:21:28  *** Trippledence [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:22:27  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah... but that kind of gameplay change is a whole lot more complex
22:22:38  *** tokai|mdlx [] has quit ["It's like, wah."]
22:23:22  <Eddi|zuHause> first, we should make transferring wagons (logically) possible
22:23:36  <Eddi|zuHause> includes variable train consistence
22:23:49  <Eddi|zuHause> and disallow this for fixed-consistence trains
22:24:01  <Eddi|zuHause> like the ICE 3
22:24:01  <Sacro> you mean having seperable rakes?
22:24:14  <Sacro> im not familier with the ICE 3
22:24:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean transfer by removing wagons, and store them somewhere (nonvisible) in the station
22:25:13  <Eddi|zuHause> then sending another engine to pick them up (at another platform possibly)
22:25:19  <Eddi|zuHause> on a next step
22:25:23  <Eddi|zuHause> make that physical
22:25:45  <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. have a shunting engine at the station that rearranges engineless wagons between the station
22:25:45  <Sacro> well, that'd be good, train X  - goto Y, leave Z carrigest
22:26:06  <Eddi|zuHause> *platforms*
22:26:16  <Sacro> ooh a proper shunting yard, and then we can have the associated signals
22:27:28  <Sacro> would be nice to have proper loading at ore/grain pickups, where the train has to roll slowly under the pouring thingy
22:27:29  <Eddi|zuHause> making a proper order system will be complicated
22:27:56  <Sacro> and then the shunter drops them off at a staion where a nice big engine takes it to the destination, for another shunter to sort
22:28:03  <Eddi|zuHause> it should be easy to learn and maintain
22:28:10  <peter1138> damn
22:28:16  <peter1138> these sounds are crackly :(
22:28:29  <Sacro> peter1138: doing UKRS sounds?
22:28:35  <peter1138> yeah
22:28:59  *** Rexxie [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:29:31  <Sacro> nice
22:30:23  <Fujitsu> The shunting stuff would be nice, but would be pretty complex, with trains having to drop their consists...
22:31:33  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, a lot of things need to be done automatically... especially when including cargo destinations
22:31:51  <Sacro> i wouldnt mind being able to control the trains, would make an amzing network game
22:31:59  *** tokai|ni [] has quit [Success]
22:32:10  <Eddi|zuHause> nah... driving trains manually is rubbish
22:32:17  *** tokai|noir [] has quit [Connection timed out]
22:32:31  <Eddi|zuHause> (if that is what you meant)
22:32:40  <ln->
22:32:59  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: yeah
22:33:30  <Fujitsu> THat shouldn't be too hard...
22:33:49  <Fujitsu> Just have to override the pathfinding, and take some controls...
22:34:07  <Sacro> and even better, signalbox mode :)
22:34:33  <Fujitsu> That'd be good.
22:34:42  <Fujitsu> Although very different in style.
22:35:10  <Fujitsu> It'd be interesting to have some really complex junctions, with very frequent trains... And then take control of everything.
22:35:27  <peter1138> hmm
22:35:33  <Sacro> yep, definatly
22:35:37  <peter1138> would be laborious ;p
22:35:45  <Sacro> or even just a busy station
22:35:50  <Sacro> anyone seen SimSig?
22:38:19  <Fujitsu> Yes.
22:38:20  <Fujitsu> I like it.
22:38:38  <Fujitsu> I like it enough that I cracked it myself :)
22:38:59  <Sacro> hehe, its been released as free no
22:39:01  <Sacro> *now
22:39:08  <Fujitsu> DAmnit.
22:39:53  <Sacro> lol
22:40:19  <Sacro> it gets a bit complex for me after a while
22:40:21  <Fujitsu> I spent a couple of hours on that >_<
22:40:33  <Fujitsu> FoxPro (I think it was) isn't nice to debug.
22:41:43  <Sacro> lol
22:42:52  *** stu92aolpro [] has joined #openttd
22:43:01  *** Neonox [] has quit ["muss wech"]
22:43:11  <Sacro> i need more bandwidth
22:43:22  <Bjarni> we all do that
22:43:28  <Bjarni> and then the servers do as well
22:43:40  <Bjarni> it's a never ending story
22:43:47  <Eddi|zuHause> free 100MBit for all ;)
22:43:49  *** XeryusTC [n=irc@] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:43:49  <Sacro> hmm
22:43:59  *** Xeryus|douche [n=irc@] has joined #openttd
22:44:02  <Fujitsu> I need more than 1GiB of download quota a month D:
22:44:03  <Sacro> and monty pythons flying circus is getting a bit too random
22:44:14  <Fujitsu> 1GiB on 10Mbps doesn't go very far.
22:44:25  <Eddi|zuHause> 1 GB (per month) is nothing...
22:44:25  <Sacro> no, i can do that in a few hours
22:44:41  <Sacro> and im only on 2.5MB
22:44:41  <Bjarni> Fujitsu: I was thinking of 1 Gbit/s bandwidth with no limitation of transferred data
22:44:46  <Bjarni> hmm
22:44:50  <Sacro> Mb even
22:44:55  <Bjarni> I wonder what would happen if we got that kind of bandwidth
22:44:58  <Fujitsu> That'd me nice.
22:45:08  <Fujitsu> We would all be blown away.
22:45:10  <Bjarni> I guess downloads would explode
22:45:13  <Fujitsu> *cough* *cough*
22:45:14  <Sacro> Bjarni: streaming everything :)
22:45:24  <Fujitsu> They have two dedicated 1Gbps links.
22:45:29  <Eddi|zuHause> even on my crappy DSL light (384kbit/s) i get easily over 20GB per month
22:45:33  <Sacro> you wouldnt need a harddrive, just download as you want it
22:45:54  <Bjarni> nobody would make software anymore since p2p would give it to you instantly anyway, so sells will be severely hurt
22:46:08  <Fujitsu> Heheheh
22:47:25  <Bjarni> I just realised something. With bandwidth like that, we should set up a cluster over the internet and compile every single .c file at once when compiling OTTD
22:47:32  <Bjarni> it would be done in no time
22:47:45  <Bjarni> that would be cool
22:48:07  <Bjarni> hmm
22:48:17  <Eddi|zuHause> the whole internet should be a super parallel processor
22:48:22  <Bjarni> bandwidth is not everything. We need to lower ping times as well
22:48:36  <Sacro> thats true
22:49:09  <Fujitsu> Yeah, ping times.
22:49:27  <peter1138> Born_Acorn: newsounds is 17KB away
22:49:57  <Fujitsu> It's... done?
22:50:06  <Sacro> commitage :D
22:50:22  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i have some really weird graphical bug in windows... (not OTTD related)
22:50:28  <Fujitsu> newsounds will make things a lot more interesting :D
22:50:32  <Eddi|zuHause> i was moving around directories
22:50:33  <Fujitsu> Eddi|zuHause, silly Windows.
22:50:36  <Bjarni> ohh, ping times. It reminds me of the quote, where a guy complained that he just got a new super connection, and yet everybody else had a least double the ping, so he felt cheated
22:50:54  <ln->
22:50:57  <Eddi|zuHause> and one of those semi transparent directories did not disappear when drag&dropping
22:51:09  <Fujitsu> Haahah
22:51:13  <Bjarni> newsounds?
22:51:20  <Eddi|zuHause> it shows now on top of every other window i have open
22:51:25  <Bjarni> we are working on newsounds for OTTD?
22:51:33  <Sacro> Bjarni: chuff chuff chuff chuff chuff chuff WHOOO WHOOOOO :D
22:51:40  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, apparently "we" are ;)
22:51:49  <ln-> who's "we", and with what equipment?
22:52:03  <glx> Bjarni: sounds from newgrf :)
22:52:12  <peter1138> Bjarni: i did it ages ago
22:52:48  <Bjarni> ahh
22:53:22  <Bjarni> I just though it was a spinoff from the guy earlier today, who wanted TTD independence
22:53:22  <Fujitsu> Going to be committed at any point?
22:53:33  <Bjarni> that would need a lot of new sounds
22:53:40  <Sacro> brb
22:53:41  <peter1138> only 73
22:53:42  *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-83-100-133-146.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [" HydraIRC -> <- The future of IRC"]
22:54:38  <Bjarni> <Sacro>	Bjarni: chuff chuff chuff chuff chuff chuff WHOOO WHOOOOO :D <--- why the whistle? are you some kind of smartass?
22:55:07  <Bjarni> like the people, who play music so loud in their cars, that everybody have to know
22:55:24  <Bjarni> s/know/knowtice
22:55:27  <ln-> did anyone consider just redrawing the current graphics, without modifications to the graphics system? (which is not necessarily a good way to go)
22:55:49  <Bjarni> I don't think we should do that
22:55:57  <Fujitsu> We must actually be fairly close to having enough free graphics to replace everything.
22:56:08  <Eddi|zuHause> how is 32bpp doing?
22:56:16  <Bjarni> good question
22:56:16  <peter1138> ln-: yes. nobody has done it, though
22:56:16  <valhallazzzw> bad I guess :p
22:56:24  *** Trippledence_ [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:56:26  <Bjarni> egladil: how is 32bpp graphic engine doing?
22:56:35  <Fujitsu> There are ground tile replacements... Vehicle replacements... I think there are bridge replacements, the total-town replacement...
22:56:37  <Born_Acorn> peter1138! WOO!
22:56:48  *** Trippledence_ [] has joined #openttd
22:56:57  <peter1138> and do-do
22:57:20  <Bjarni> peter1138: those newsounds. Do you use the motion counter I sent you?
22:57:30  <Born_Acorn> It would be handy to change how fast the chuffs are?
22:57:32  <peter1138> Bjarni: not yet
22:57:44  *** ^Cartman^ [] has joined #openttd
22:57:45  <peter1138> Bjarni: cos i don't know where that went :P
22:57:47  <Born_Acorn> The UKRS chuffs are faster than gerbils on helium.
22:58:18  <Bjarni> "not yet" implies that you will use it. I got into the history books as somebody, who coded stuff that affected newgrf support :D
22:58:32  <peter1138> ok
22:58:37  <Bjarni> 	<peter1138>	Bjarni: cos i don't know where that went :P <-- there is a death penalty for that
22:58:38  <peter1138> i better clarify
22:58:41  <peter1138> hehe
22:58:44  <peter1138> i don't have it any more
22:58:49  <Bjarni> actually I think I know where it is (on my HD)
22:58:50  <peter1138> hard drive failures ages ago :P
22:58:54  <Bjarni> ahh
22:59:31  <Fujitsu> So, peter1138, going to commit it at any time?
22:59:40  <peter1138> yes
22:59:42  <Bjarni> peter1138: DCC
22:59:44  <peter1138> OR
22:59:51  <peter1138> i may keep it for myself
22:59:58  <Born_Acorn> peter1138, can the chuffs be slower?
23:00:01  <Bjarni> stupid Xchat. I wanted to DCC a file to peter1138, not google for peter1138 :s
23:00:34  <Fujitsu> peter1138, do I have to kill you to get it?
23:00:40  <Born_Acorn> I thought Pikkabird blamed TTDPatch's "Chuff routines"(made up) for their high speed. Trains chuff less when at maximum speed.
23:01:00  <Born_Acorn> They chuff lots when accelerating or going uphill.
23:01:04  <Bjarni> Fujitsu: killing is not the answer, because then nobody knows the password to his encrypted HD and you will never get it
23:01:14  <Fujitsu> Damn. True.
23:01:58  <Eddi|zuHause> what? we cannot read data from dead people's brains yet?
23:02:11  <Eddi|zuHause> we need to implement that ;)
23:02:19  <Bjarni> Born_Acorn: actually that's not entirely true (I haven't read what Pikkabird wrote though)
23:02:43  <Bjarni> there will be 4 steam puffs each time the driving wheels have turned 360°
23:02:58  <Bjarni> so the number is linear related to speed
23:03:02  <Born_Acorn> Isn't that fast?
23:03:31  <Bjarni> the power is decreasing with speed though as less steam gets into each puff at high speed
23:03:43  <Eddi|zuHause> 4 puffs per wheel rotation = 2 cylinders in 90° offset
23:03:54  <Born_Acorn> Have you heard how fast it is in TTDPatch?
23:04:06  <Born_Acorn> It needs to be less frequent than that. :p
23:04:23  <Eddi|zuHause> you need larger wheels ;)
23:04:31  <peter1138> i think the problem is scale
23:04:40  <peter1138> anyway
23:04:46  <peter1138> i can't get it right :/
23:04:57  <Bjarni> <Born_Acorn>	Isn't that fast? <-- once for each way a piston moves, which means it's a total of 2 for each piston for each rotation and the two pistons are in sync, but 35° from each other
23:05:36  <Bjarni> well, those 35° is not always 35°. It depends on the engine, but I don't know any engine, that uses 90°
23:06:04  <Bjarni> it will make the engine make too many sideward trusts in the track, hence damaging both wheels and rails
23:06:13  <Bjarni> it's bad enough as it is
23:06:28  *** Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
23:07:10  <Fujitsu> Morning, Brianetta.
23:07:26  <Bjarni> I once calculated the number of steam puffs when Mallard "Gresley A4" got the speed record of 201,4 km/h. It was something like 52 steam puffs each sec
23:07:40  <Brianetta> So it is.
23:07:53  <Bjarni> since it had 3 pistons and it was at very high speed
23:08:08  <Brianetta> 52Hz puffage
23:08:15  <Fujitsu> Heheheh
23:08:22  <Bjarni> I'm pretty sure that it stated to be a continuous sound
23:08:28  <Fujitsu> peter1138, ETA on committal?
23:08:53  <Bjarni> you can generate a continuous sound even with only 2 pistons at say 120-130 km/h
23:08:56  <Brianetta> Bjarni: Yes, 52Hz is above the lower frequency threshold of human hearing
23:09:29  <Fujitsu> True.
23:09:54  <peter1138> i think people expect it to go "puff puff puff" though
23:09:57  <Bjarni> usually the limit is 20 Hz, but powerful noise (like here), some people can get as low as 2 Hz
23:10:49  <Eddi|zuHause> you can listen to elephants at that frequency ;)
23:11:42  <Eddi|zuHause> all information i find says that 2 pistons are offset by 90°
23:11:51  <Bjarni> we had (still have?) a case about that here because some people complains that they got a lot of noise in their houses and the noise is from the central heating (central as it heats up a lot of houses). Their pumps generate a lot of noise, but it's like 8 Hz or so, so officially people can't hear it and the complains have been rejected based on that
23:12:17  *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-83-100-133-146.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
23:12:46  <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause>	all information i find says that 2 pistons are offset by 90° <-- ok, then I better check out the steam locomotives tomorrow when I'm next to them anyway
23:12:58  <Fujitsu> Bjarni, where?
23:13:10  *** Mucht [] has joined #openttd
23:13:13  <Fujitsu> I regularly go down to my local steam tourist railway...
23:13:14  <Bjarni> at the railroad, where else?
23:13:18  <peter1138> at the danish national odd-piston alignment museumn
23:13:24  <Fujitsu> Hahahahahahha
23:13:24  <Bjarni> lol
23:13:26  <Fujitsu> +1 peter1138.
23:13:46  *** Mukke [] has quit []
23:14:05  <Bjarni> I think that's the best one yet this year
23:14:09  <Bjarni> I'm still laughting
23:15:04  <Sacro> i might go up to York Railway Museum
23:15:26  <Bjarni> damn, now my stomach hurts
23:15:30  <Sacro> Self.playGTA()
23:15:33  <Eddi|zuHause> <- hm... that looks more like 120° ... it's probably from a 3 piston engine
23:16:03  <Bjarni> that's clearly a 3 piston engine
23:16:53  *** ector-- [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
23:17:43  <Bjarni> actually now peter1138 spoiled my serious reply to <Fujitsu>	Bjarni, where?
23:17:57  <Eddi|zuHause> <- yes, it is ;)
23:18:06  <Fujitsu> The railroad, you mean? :{
23:18:09  <Fujitsu> *:P
23:18:14  <Bjarni> tomorrow, when I'm done driving, I'm going to place the diesel locomotive next to the steam locomotives
23:18:23  <Born_Acorn> The A4 "Sir Nigel Gresley" is being actively refurbished
23:18:48  <Born_Acorn> Its looks like a conventional loco with the streamlining off.
23:19:06  <Bjarni> <-- nice pic
23:19:07  <Fujitsu> Why?
23:19:21  <Bjarni> Fujitsu: why to what?
23:19:28  <Fujitsu> Diesel next to steam?
23:19:29  <Bjarni> to A4, or nice pic or ?
23:19:33  <Fujitsu> Don't spoil the steam!
23:19:35  <Fujitsu> :P
23:19:59  <Bjarni> because vintage diesel kind of fits with steam
23:20:24  <Bjarni> also it's the round house, so it IS where the vintage engines is placed when they are not driving
23:20:29  <Born_Acorn> Coal prices are falling, oil prices increasing. We may see a relapse in steam power :p
23:20:30  <Fujitsu> Aha.
23:20:47  <Fujitsu> Dman you and your ability to drive trains...
23:20:50  <Bjarni> Born_Acorn: that's not so far out as you might think it is
23:21:00  <Born_Acorn> I know.
23:21:12  <Born_Acorn> The 5AT is one such train.
23:21:25  <Born_Acorn> Although it is being designed with Fuel Oil in mind.
23:21:36  <Born_Acorn> and more for tourist charter trains.
23:22:03  <Bjarni> ACE3300 (or was it 3000) was actually cheaper than diesel in fuel costs/HP in the 1980s, but they never managed to build one because the constructors ended up hating each other and could not agree on anything
23:22:45  <Born_Acorn> Apparently one A4 was destroyed in the war, but they found its nameplates last year during a cleanup.
23:23:06  <peter1138> night night
23:23:18  <Born_Acorn>
23:23:22  <Born_Acorn> That one.
23:23:33  <Bjarni>
23:23:38  <Bjarni> ace3000 was the name of it
23:24:46  <Born_Acorn> It looks so heartless :p
23:25:11  <Bjarni> 	<Born_Acorn>	Apparently one A4 was destroyed in the war, but they found its nameplates last year during a cleanup. <-- one have to wonder about the order in repairshops since they still uncover stuff from the steam era during cleanups
23:25:57  <Born_Acorn> Its all on that link above I gave why they couldn't repair it
23:26:16  <Bjarni> I know of another incident in 200x, where pre WW2 stuff appeared during a cleanup. Now I forgot where and what, but it was not a tiny thing
23:26:23  <Born_Acorn> No spare frames, and since there was the war effort on for tanks rather than trains.
23:26:35  <Born_Acorn> Especially when cheap lend lease trains could come from the US.
23:26:47  <Bjarni> it was just lying somewhere in the basement. Spare part for rolling stock, that was scrapped years ago
23:27:02  <Born_Acorn> Speaking of which, the last ever payment on the lend lease agreement to the US is to be given next year!
23:27:17  <Born_Acorn> £20 million I think.
23:27:27  <Bjarni> payment for steam?
23:29:29  <Born_Acorn> For everything on loan.
23:29:39  <Born_Acorn> Trains, planes, tanks, boats, ships etc
23:30:28  *** stu92aolpro [] has quit []
23:30:32  <Born_Acorn> They had to pay for the convoys sunk by U-boats too. A new meaning to "You break it you bought it" :p
23:30:34  <Bjarni> <-- finally a proper page for this engine... well it links to proper pages
23:31:02  <Born_Acorn> David Wardale in the first paragrapg.
23:31:06  <Born_Acorn> -g
23:31:07  <Born_Acorn> h
23:31:46  <Bjarni> <Born_Acorn>	They had to pay for the convoys sunk by U-boats too. A new meaning to "You break it you bought it" :p <-- wtf? US makes money on blockade runs, which is highly profitable and if a ship is lost, they could simply move the loss to somebody else
23:32:28  <Born_Acorn> They didn't want to incur such high repayments on Germany again. May have caused another World War later on.
23:32:55  *** Hackykid [] has joined #openttd
23:33:45  <Born_Acorn> Hackykid! Signal GUI and autocomplete!
23:34:53  <Bjarni> <-- this engine is all about moving as far as possible on a single ton of coal and look what the fireman just did...
23:34:55  <Bjarni> o_O
23:35:22  <Eddi|zuHause> hehe... "We don't want to charge germany, so we charge britain instead" ;)
23:35:52  <Bjarni> am I the only one to notice that this pic is all wrong?
23:36:22  <ln-> a steam pulling modern wagons?
23:36:38  <Bjarni> it's not that
23:36:41  <Bjarni> it's the smoke
23:36:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea what you are referring to
23:37:14  <glx> what's wrong with the smoke?
23:37:24  <ln-> smoking is bad for health.
23:37:27  <Jpl_> hmmmm.....
23:37:32  <Bjarni> the fireman just added a whole lot of coal at once, which mean that it will not have enough air to burn properly, so it burns inefficiently
23:37:33  <Jpl_> it's wrong.
23:37:39  <Bjarni> hence the black colour
23:37:59  <glx> oh just big pollution for nothing :)
23:38:00  <Bjarni> it's actually small parts of unburned or semiburned coal, that colours the smoke
23:38:11  <Jpl_> I was about to say about black smoke.. :)
23:38:20  <Bjarni> <-- it should look like this (or maybe a bit darker when really working hard)
23:38:23  <Eddi|zuHause> i assume it's more for a show effect
23:38:47  <Eddi|zuHause> ugh... train driving on left...
23:39:05  <Bjarni> where?
23:39:14  <Bjarni> I know they do that in Sweden
23:39:26  <Bjarni> which in actually not a nice thing to do
23:39:28  <Eddi|zuHause> on the picture you just posted?
23:39:29  <glx> trains drive on left in France too
23:39:45  <Jpl_> trains drive on left in britain.
23:39:51  <glx> but metro drive on right
23:39:53  <Jpl_> trains drive on right and left in Finland.
23:39:54  <Bjarni> oh yeah
23:40:00  <Bjarni> well, it's still a bad idea
23:40:08  <Bjarni> or it used to be a bad idea
23:40:16  <Jpl_> both "directions" are designed to run at both directions.
23:40:49  <Bjarni> since the driver have to be on the same side as it's driving to see the signals, the fireman have to be on the other side and if he is in the right side, he should be lefthanded
23:41:12  <Bjarni> most people are right handed, so driving in the right side makes it easier to find good firemen
23:42:32  <Bjarni> <-- I would have to say that this pic contains a pretty long train
23:42:47  <Bjarni> specially if it really is filled with people
23:42:48  <Jpl_> long...
23:43:10  <glx> hmm not all the train is visible on this pic
23:43:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i would assume that in america, trains are usually longer
23:44:02  <glx> and they tend to stop while on a level crossing :)
23:44:26  <Bjarni> heh
23:44:49  <Eddi|zuHause> impressive picture
23:44:51  <Bjarni> <-- I would hate to make a wrong turn here. The track to the left looks unsafe
23:45:16  *** Mucht is now known as Mucht|zZz
23:45:25  <SpComb> trains don't make wrong turns!
23:46:04  <SpComb> hardly any worse than a ICE that's running through a bypass line accidentially taking the track to the terminus...
23:46:27  <SpComb> now that wouldn't be fun
23:46:31  <Jpl_>
23:46:41  <Bjarni> trains DO take the wrong turn once in a while, but usually not in a case like this
23:46:51  <Eddi|zuHause> i assume an ICE would already derail if it's going over the branching side of a switch at high speed
23:46:53  <Bjarni> and it's extremely rare, but it happens
23:47:25  <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't make it to the end of the line ;)
23:47:38  <SpComb> hmmnice train pictures
23:47:51  <SpComb> that cargo train looks realyl quite long
23:47:55  <SpComb> and just two engines?
23:48:09  <SpComb> and I wonder how loading that thing works
23:48:14  * glx counts 3 engines
23:48:14  <Bjarni> <-- it's not an excellent pic, but it's a nice one for size comparison
23:48:48  * Bjarni counts the same number of engines as glx
23:49:09  <SpComb> now that was a interesting picture... the train tracks going along the riverbanks look just like footpaths or something, and the train looks tiny
23:49:31  <Bjarni> <SpComb>	and I wonder how loading that thing works <-- the train stops under a crane, that loads the containers, then the engines pulls the train forward so the next car in under the crane and so on
23:49:35  <Bjarni> not that tricky
23:50:14  <Born_Acorn> I have doubts over whether these passengers ever get to their destination.
23:50:37  <SpComb> so do I
23:50:39  <glx> :D
23:52:16  <Fujitsu> All trains drive on the left in Australia.
23:52:35  <SpComb> in soviet russia, left drives on train!
23:53:31  <Bjarni> SpComb: good one
23:53:38  <SpComb> salee
23:53:41  * Fujitsu runs SpComb over with a train.
23:55:21  * Fujitsu looks through his photos of the local tourist railway, and finds some good ones.
23:55:46  <Born_Acorn> My local.
23:55:46  <Born_Acorn>
23:56:25  <Born_Acorn> Most favourite:
23:56:32  <Fujitsu> I've really got two 'local' ones, although one is easily accessed by rail (in 20 minutes), while the other one isn't/
23:57:43  <Fujitsu> And only one is up to professional standard.
23:58:12  <Bjarni> how far away is "local" considered?
23:58:47  <Bjarni> within reach of 30 min or 60 min or ?
23:58:56  <Fujitsu> Well, I have two within 20km of me.
23:59:11  <Fujitsu> Hahahah.
23:59:24  <Bjarni> what?
23:59:27  <Fujitsu> These photos were from before I was volunteering there...
23:59:42  <Bjarni> oh, I like pics like that

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