Log for #openttd on 24th May 2006:
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00:10:58  <Sacro> anyone here?
00:12:11  <izhirahider> I'm still here
00:12:42  <Sacro> :)
00:14:50  <izhirahider> nice, although I don't really have the time
00:15:00  <izhirahider> I don't know the town though too
00:16:03  <Sacro> i know bits of the city, but im just a HTML coder with spare time
00:16:15  <Sacro> shame that the darn host shoves my whole page into a frame
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04:06:56  <roboman> hello
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06:17:14  <Celestar> morning
06:18:38  <Aankhen``> Morning. :-D
06:19:05  <peter1138> hi
06:19:35  * Aankhen`` faints from all the attention.
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06:20:41  <Celestar> peter1138: <= did you have a look at that?
06:21:03  <Celestar> peter1138: <= and this (does it occur in 0.4?)
06:22:20  <peter1138> 182: fixed in r4964
06:22:33  <peter1138> 168: probably exists, but not going to fix
06:23:25  <Celestar> 182: when I load the savegame in question, the train still uses rather random paths, why is that?
06:23:28  <Celestar> 168: explain
06:23:30  <Celestar> ;)
06:24:57  <Celestar> 182: with NPF, the train always plans over the bridge ...
06:28:13  <peter1138> 182: no idea, but without r4964 it always takes the long way
06:28:24  <peter1138> 168: it's a bug in the grf file
06:28:31  <peter1138> 168: as my comment states
06:29:01  <Celestar> ok
06:29:11  <Celestar> but I'll investigate 182 a bit further k?
06:31:33  <peter1138> fine by me
06:31:58  <Celestar> ;)
06:32:06  <Celestar> because it drives me kinda nuts in bridge/
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06:57:22  <Celestar> .oO(why do people keep yelling that AMD should increase their L2 cache sizes?)
06:58:01  <Smoky555> does anybody use last MiniIntegratedBuild ?
06:59:13  <[Shaman]> eh? even more?
06:59:27  <[Shaman]> Celestar: My amd got 1mb L2 cache... seriously increasing it would be nutters?
06:59:33  <Celestar> well, now that Intel goes up to 4MB
06:59:55  <[Shaman]> Smoky555: I use the 4917 build.
07:00:04  <[Shaman]> Celestar: /me shrugs
07:00:07  <[Shaman]> keeping up is good
07:00:08  <Celestar> but considering that, on AMD, the difference between 512k and 1M is < 2% for apps, and ~5% for games ...
07:00:23  <Celestar> I don't see much benefit from a larger cache
07:00:33  <Smoky555> [Shaman]: do you have troubles with PBS signals?
07:00:46  <[Shaman]> PBS signals being?
07:01:00  <[Shaman]> (I don't use signals that much, my tracks are perfect and therefore don't need them xD )
07:01:18  <Celestar> ^^
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07:02:10  <Smoky555> my russian-speaking users from love this signals, but PBS didn't work well :(
07:02:25  <[Shaman]> PBS signals being the pre-station ones?
07:02:56  <Smoky555> yes, and on crossroads without bridges ...
07:03:41  * [Shaman] shrugs
07:04:18  <[Shaman]> there's quite a few bugs in 4917, I'm sure the next mini_IN release will be less buggy
07:04:37  <Smoky555> i hope :)
07:05:36  <Celestar> peter1138: this is surely weird
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07:06:11  <[Shaman]> Celestar: The benefit 1mb > 4mb would be the same as 512 > 1mb.
07:06:18  <Celestar> [Shaman]: likely
07:06:34  <Celestar> but considering the die size increase ...
07:09:17  <peter1138> hmm
07:09:47  <Celestar> somehow one might think that the pathfinder should always give the same result for a given situation
07:09:54  <Celestar> unless you have uninizialized variables :S
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07:12:51  * Celestar thinks that OPF/NTP needs to go
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07:15:23  * peter1138 notes that YAPF is massive in comparison
07:15:28  <peter1138> but if it works better...
07:16:12  <blathijs> Celestar: well, there should be a certain randomness in the pathfinder I guess
07:16:29  <blathijs> Celestar: if two paths are exactly as long, you want both to be used
07:16:41  <Celestar> blathijs: they are not both as long ..
07:16:46  <Celestar> one is significantly longer
07:16:55  <blathijs> that it should always take the shorter one
07:17:03  <Celestar> well, NTP doesn't
07:17:08  <blathijs> weird
07:17:13  <blathijs> I see no reason why not
07:17:19  <Celestar> neither do I
07:17:23  <blathijs> are you sure the situation is the same?
07:17:26  <Celestar> yes.
07:17:30  <blathijs> (things like signals etc)
07:17:37  <Celestar> bug report 182
07:17:51  <Celestar> blathijs: I have some problems debugging NPF in bridge/ You feel like assisting?
07:18:16  <blathijs> Celestar: I had plans for this morning, but those involve coding on my laptop
07:18:21  <blathijs> so I'll be around
07:18:25  <Celestar> ok
07:18:31  <Celestar> I'll first stab at it myself
07:18:38  <peter1138> yapf has a lot of code in header files. tum te tum
07:18:45  <blathijs> but first I'm gonna get some breakfast and stuff like that
07:18:51  <Celestar> peter1138: C++ / STL
07:19:03  <blathijs> Celestar: 182 is closed, right?
07:19:05  <peter1138> it's standard to have lots of code in header files?
07:19:12  <Celestar> blathijs: no that I know of ..
07:19:17  <peter1138> 182 is closed
07:19:23  <Celestar> peter1138: from the little I know about templates, yes.
07:19:35  <peter1138> 182 is not the cause of the random paths
07:19:38  <peter1138> damn
07:19:41  <peter1138> it's so... ugly
07:19:57  <blathijs> do you have a simplified example of those random paths?
07:19:59  <Celestar> you think so?
07:20:07  <blathijs> or only an in the wild savegame?
07:20:09  <Celestar> blathijs: open report 182 and use the savegame in there :)
07:20:15  <Celestar> it's not much track :)
07:20:29  <Celestar>
07:21:01  <Celestar> peter1138: C++ is not C with objects ...
07:21:39  <peter1138> Celestar: i get random paths with no bridge in site
07:21:58  <peter1138> err
07:21:59  <peter1138> sight too :)
07:22:03  <Celestar> yeah
07:22:06  <blathijs> hmm
07:22:06  <blathijs> wtf
07:22:11  <Celestar> I'm wondering why.
07:22:31  <blathijs> Celestar: it means it can't find the destination I think
07:22:49  <Celestar> it cannot be THAT difficult to find the destination, right?
07:22:53  <blathijs> since it will take a random direction only if the paths are just as long or there is no path
07:23:08  <blathijs> perhaps something was changed in the way waypoints are stored or something?
07:23:38  * peter1138 notes that debug_level ntp is... note very useful
07:23:56  <Celestar> er
07:24:11  <Celestar> blathijs: when I add the depot to the order list, it works properly
07:24:32  <Celestar> it seems there's some fuckage somewhere else
07:24:35  <peter1138> blathijs: it's random for stations too
07:24:46  <Celestar> peter1138: that's because it plans "through" the depot
07:24:58  <blathijs> briljant comment:       // blaha
07:25:13  <peter1138> Celestar: i added the depot, and it's still random
07:25:22  <Celestar> er ... not for me :o
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07:25:56  <Celestar> this reversing in waypoints is going on me bugg
07:25:58  <Celestar> butt*
07:26:29  <blathijs> hmm, it seems that not finding a destination won't cause randomness
07:26:38  <blathijs> it should just take the first route
07:26:55  <Celestar> <= that seems related
07:26:58  <Celestar> open that savegame please
07:27:29  <peter1138>
07:27:56  <Celestar> behavior in 184 is correct with NPF
07:28:37  <Celestar> yeah it appears random
07:29:05  <Celestar> maybe that problem occured with r4150 ?
07:29:33  <peter1138> heh
07:29:36  <peter1138> test 4149?
07:30:56  <blathijs> peter1138: I've just observed random behaviour with pre-4150
07:31:08  <blathijs> (some compile I don't know the rev number of)
07:31:10  <peter1138> good :)
07:31:25  <peter1138> because debugging 4150 is not nice
07:32:02  <Celestar> 4149 has the same problem
07:32:04  <blathijs> hmm, maybe not, it was 4649 already
07:32:12  <Celestar> just tested it
07:32:20  <Celestar> (with only reverting pathfind.c)
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07:34:50  <Celestar> peter1138: blathijs: same randomness occurs in branch/0.4/ which doesn't have elrails merged
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07:37:14  * Celestar goes trying 40xy
07:39:44  <Celestar> er WAIT
07:40:30  <blathijs> hmm?
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07:42:03  <Celestar> nah, false alarm
07:43:24  <Celestar> uh huh
07:43:30  <Celestar> people check this out please
07:43:40  <[Shaman]> o_O
07:43:55  <Celestar>
07:44:13  <Celestar> this may be #184-related
07:45:06  <Celestar> comments?
07:45:16  * Celestar goes filing a bug report
07:45:16  <[Shaman]> which build save?
07:45:40  <Celestar> post 4757
07:46:55  <[Shaman]> they both be going in circles :o
07:47:30  <[Shaman]> but not turning around at least :p
07:48:39  <blathijs> Eddi|zuHause: It sees that in the 182 savegame, the train can't find the waypoint
07:48:52  <Celestar> ?
07:49:08  <blathijs> and since both routes come just as close, it might choose randomly between them I guess
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07:50:35  <Celestar> blathijs: check the savegame I gave above
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07:53:39  <blathijs> Celestar: what am I supposed to see?
07:53:53  <DarkSSH> morning
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07:54:01  <Celestar> blathijs: the upper "circle" is random
07:54:03  <Celestar> the lower isn't
07:54:13  <blathijs> doesn't seem to be here
07:54:22  <[Shaman]> lower one goes in circles
07:54:22  <blathijs> ah
07:54:27  <blathijs> NPF was on?
07:54:29  <[Shaman]> upper one 'chooses' either straight or circles
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07:56:18  * Celestar detonates over pathfind.c:885
07:56:57  <Celestar> there'S some Random in there
07:57:18  <blathijs> yes, by design
07:57:27  <Celestar> but it only fires in one case, and not the other?!
07:57:49  <Celestar> blathijs: in the give savegame, both paths are NOT equal in length
07:58:02  <Celestar> one path is CLEARLY shorter and CLEARLY cheaper
07:58:06  <blathijs> yes, but the pathfinder can't seem to find its target for some reason
07:58:14  <blathijs> (not checked in your savegame yet)
07:58:17  <peter1138> how do you know?
07:58:22  <peter1138> it doesn't tell me anything...
07:58:34  <Celestar> peter1138: how do I what?
07:58:41  <blathijs> peter1138: gdb told me
07:59:16  <peter1138> ah, smart ;p
07:59:27  <peter1138> hmm, i have elwires showing through bridges o_O
07:59:31  <peter1138> (is that fixed in bridge/ ?)
07:59:36  <Celestar> "overflowed"
07:59:53  <Celestar> peter1138: not yet, but I have it in mind (sloped wire under bridge maybe?)
08:00:10  <Celestar> peter1138: once the fixed bounding boxes are committed
08:00:34  <Celestar> ok I'm stuck here with 3 PF problems
08:00:36  <peter1138> i thought it didn't show wires for rails one level below the bridge?
08:00:45  <Celestar> 2 NTP (see bug reports) 1 NPF (bridge)
08:00:49  <Celestar> peter1138: no, it shouldn't ...
08:00:59  <Celestar> peter1138: unless you have transparency on
08:01:15  <peter1138> heh, no
08:01:36  <Bjarni> I wonder if I should let autoreplace violate max train length
08:01:46  <peter1138>
08:02:06  <Darkvater> Bjarni: what about no?
08:02:11  <Bjarni> it would solve the issue somebody reported on the forum, where the new engine leaves the wagons behind
08:02:33  <Bjarni> Darkvater: you got a better idea?
08:02:35  <Celestar> peter1138: that is supposed to happen
08:02:51  <peter1138> supposed? o_O
08:03:23  <Celestar> well
08:03:35  <Celestar> not really, but I didn't properly take into account slopes yet :)
08:03:47  <Darkvater> Bjarni: yes, adhere to the maximum length restriction
08:04:03  <Celestar> do we have a maximum train length?
08:04:14  <Celestar> Darkvater: we have yet-another-bug in NTP
08:04:16  <Bjarni> yeah
08:04:19  <Bjarni> 101 units
08:04:23  <Celestar> WHY?
08:04:43  <Bjarni> but only 10 if you use some stupid patch setting I have wanted to remove for years
08:04:51  <Bjarni> Celestar: good question
08:05:11  <Darkvater> Celestar: what is it?
08:05:24  <Celestar> <= this one
08:05:25  <Bjarni> this is actually a rather good question: why do we even keep a max length?
08:05:30  <Darkvater> for MP
08:05:40  <Celestar> might be related to the Waypoint bug
08:06:04  <Celestar> blathijs: can you see whether NTP finds the destination in ?
08:06:10  <Darkvater> could be
08:07:24  <Celestar> Darkvater: it's both the same bug
08:07:35  <Celestar> NTP doesn't work when there are NO junctions in the network.
08:07:47  <Celestar> it's the reason for the randomness in 184 and 185
08:08:11  <Darkvater> why should it work when there are no junctions?
08:08:14  <Celestar> Darkvater: if you add a switch, into your straight rail, it works nicely
08:08:16  <Darkvater> there is only 1 path
08:08:23  <Darkvater> there is nothing to pathfind
08:08:36  <Celestar> I don't KNOW
08:08:42  <Celestar> I just know it happens
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08:09:38  <Darkvater> but what doesn't work? Surely you agree with me that if there are no junctions there is only *ONE* path to take and there is nothing to pathfind
08:10:05  <Celestar> well, not really. there's two paths, one in one direction, one in the other
08:10:24  <Celestar> because we seem not to have a non-reflective boundary condition ;)
08:10:47  <Darkvater> ? screenshot?
08:11:15  * blathijs smacks Celestar
08:11:19  <Celestar> Darkvater: hm?
08:11:24  <Celestar> blathijs: hm?
08:11:28  <Darkvater> I don't get what you are saying
08:11:30  <blathijs> Celestar: your ntpdepot.sav contains _another_ train :-S
08:11:42  <Celestar> blathijs: some AI?
08:11:55  <blathijs> I just spent my time wondering why the hell even the most basic "GetTracks" was wrong...
08:11:58  <blathijs> yes
08:12:02  <Celestar> blathijs: sworry
08:12:16  <Darkvater> screenshot plz about your theory Celestar ?
08:12:29  <Celestar> Darkvater: blathijs' gdb :)
08:13:15  <Celestar> Darkvater: have a look at CheckReverseTrain
08:13:36  * Darkvater has nothing here @work
08:13:50  <Celestar> if NTP doesn't find the destination, CheckReverseTrain ALWAYS returns "true"
08:13:54  <Darkvater> MiHaMiX: !!
08:14:03  <Darkvater> I wish he would fix up flyspray a bit
08:14:09  <Darkvater> it is getting really annoying
08:14:33  * Darkvater votes for going back to sourceforge
08:15:44  <Bjarni> why?
08:16:15  <Bjarni> I actually think that flyspray is better than SF, even through it's not perfect
08:16:16  <Darkvater> cause it sucks
08:16:22  <Darkvater> and it's not getting better
08:16:31  <[Shaman]> nothing is perfect :P
08:16:54  <blathijs> Celestar: hmm, randomizing the order of the stack seems a little silly in A* :-S
08:16:58  <Bjarni> maybe we should try a 3rd system them, because SF sucks
08:17:56  <Celestar> bugzilla?
08:18:03  <Darkvater> noo, not bugzilla
08:18:25  <Darkvater> I absolutely detest it it is so bad
08:18:41  <Celestar> Darkvater: I fail to see proper options then :P
08:18:52  <Bjarni> Darkvater: then what do you think since we already decided that we don't want SF
08:18:58  <Darkvater> get MiHaMiX to fix the most painful shortcomings of FS?
08:19:20  <Celestar> /opt/starcd/PROSTAR/3.26.003/linux_2.4-x86-glibc_2.3.2/bin/pro-xm: relocation error: /usr/X11R6/lib/ symbol __strncpy_chk, version GLIBC_2.3.4 not defined in file with link time reference
08:19:26  <Celestar> I love those error messages :S
08:20:17  <Bjarni> 	<Darkvater>	get MiHaMiX to fix the most painful shortcomings of FS? <-- we should make a list of stuff to do to FS, maybe making a new "forum" in FS with FS bugs, wanted improvements
08:20:53  <Darkvater> I've already sent him an email with suggestions, wishlists a few weeks ago
08:20:57  <Darkvater> perhaps even a month
08:21:35  <Bjarni> if we use FS, then it would be easier to track AND he will not throw it out ;)
08:22:39  <peter1138> hello
08:22:53  <Celestar> hi peter1138
08:22:57  <Celestar> blathijs: any luck?
08:24:21  <Bjarni> ok, I removed the max train length thing since it didn't really made sense after we switched to a linked list of train consist anyway
08:24:37  <Bjarni> should I remove the patch setting for train length as well and commit it?
08:25:58  <blathijs> Celestar: not yet
08:26:03  <[Shaman]> maybe want to set a fixed length for multiplayer tho, Bjarni
08:26:14  <Bjarni> why?
08:26:20  <peter1138> Bjarni: try not to break old games :)
08:26:24  <qball> There is mantis, not sure how much it's better then
08:26:27  <qball> FS
08:26:35  <peter1138> mantis is fucking shit
08:26:40  <Bjarni> it will not break old savegames as trains can get longer, not shorter
08:26:43  <[Shaman]> Bjarni: 8 people, loads of BIG trains.. ottd won't be a happy bunny :P
08:26:52  <peter1138> Bjarni: i mean with the patch setting (they're saved too)
08:27:01  <Bjarni> ahh
08:27:04  <Celestar> a max train length setting is acceptable
08:27:31  <[Shaman]> I mean, the horror of having a full screen of 40+ size trains O_O
08:27:37  <Bjarni> but I just got a bug report telling that it fucked up autoreplacec :(
08:28:22  <Celestar> Bjarni: hwere?
08:28:58  <Bjarni>
08:29:02  <peter1138> [Shaman]: mmm, lovely
08:29:19  <[Shaman]> peter1138: lovely indeed.. but i doubt low-end puters would like it :P
08:29:46  <peter1138> i don't think it would make much different
08:29:47  <peter1138> err
08:29:51  <peter1138> -t+ce
08:30:33  <[Shaman]> my lappy went tripping last night when i managed to put 48 trains in 1 screen
08:30:58  <Celestar> Bjarni: please place the bug in FS, and mark it for 0.4.8
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08:37:31  <blathijs> Celestar: I'm giving up for now
08:37:41  <Celestar> blathijs: kk
08:37:55  <blathijs> Celestar: I've got company :-)
08:42:03  <Celestar> Bjarni: k?
08:43:25  <roboman> is it possible to make it so you can pin the client list window in multiplayer. The reason is you have ti have it open to be able to send messages to other people and sometimes the screen gets realy clutered
08:44:13  <Celestar> like make it sticky?
08:45:01  <roboman> yeah
08:47:45  <Celestar> should be doable
08:48:45  <peter1138> nah
08:48:48  <peter1138> you need an IM client
08:49:20  * roboman has one
08:49:31  <peter1138> built in, i mean
08:49:41  <[Shaman]> tbh the chat things nead a bit of a revamp :p
08:49:41  <Bjarni> <Celestar>	Bjarni: k? <-- yeah (I was away for a moment)
08:50:06  <Vornicus> L!
08:51:24  <roboman> ah
08:52:20  <Darkvater> Bjarni: what do you have against max-train-length? Fix the bug, not remove it
08:52:51  <Bjarni> it's a tricky bug because it happens by design :(
08:53:02  <Celestar> max-train-length should be a clear patch setting
08:53:07  <Bjarni> I didn't think that somebody would actually limit trains to only 10 tiles
08:53:12  <Celestar> not something magic like "10" or "101"
08:53:18  <Bjarni> err, 10 units
08:53:21  <Bjarni> (5 tiles)
08:53:44  <Bjarni> 101 is likely the weirdest number that I have seen
08:54:00  <Darkvater> 43
08:54:31  <Bjarni> whatever
08:55:33  * Celestar votes for a clear patch setting
08:55:42  * Darkvater clears that patch
08:55:52  <Darkvater> whoa, look at that double meaning ^^
08:56:12  <peter1138> Bjarni: do what i did for articulated engines
08:56:30  <peter1138> articulated parts don't count
08:56:44  <peter1138> so an engine with tender is only 1
08:58:16  <peter1138> might be the quick & easily solution: make the second head not count too
08:59:58  <peter1138> of course, then you can get 11 long trains, but...
09:01:43  <Darkvater> isn't the whole point of a large chunk of code to prevent that?
09:01:54  <Darkvater> your trains will stick out of stations, screw up the whole network
09:03:59  <Vornicus> max train length should come from max station spread.
09:04:00  <Bjarni> people should use the option to keep the length of autoreplaced trains for that
09:04:38  <Bjarni> otherwise you can end up with 5 tile long trains for 4 tile long stations and max length will not prevent that
09:05:00  <Vornicus> ...unless newstations makes it so you can make station tracks turn
09:06:00  <Darkvater> Bjarni: that is not the point. If people build 5-long trains they do not want to end up with 6-long trains because autoreplace is misbehvaing
09:06:59  <Bjarni> but it's not misbehaving if they just would use it
09:07:04  <Bjarni> it's well tested
09:07:17  <Darkvater> it is clearly misbehaving which is the bug-report is showing
09:07:35  <Darkvater> Bjarni there is no way to talk yourself out of this :)
09:07:41  <Bjarni> why can't I make a 10 unit long train? it set the limit to 9 o_O
09:08:33  <Bjarni> 	<Darkvater>	it is clearly misbehaving which is the bug-report is showing <-- autoreplace works correctly, but it relies on CmdMoveRailVehicle(), which acts strange when getting near the max train length
09:08:57  <Bjarni> right now I can't even manually make a train with one engine and 9 wagons
09:09:01  <Bjarni> due to max length
09:09:04  <Bjarni> it should allow that
09:09:22  <Bjarni> or not
09:09:27  <Bjarni> why is the limit set to 9???
09:09:35  <Bjarni> at least it should be 10, right?
09:09:45  <Bjarni> I mean, same length as a 5 tile station
09:10:31  <Darkvater> station length has *nothing* to do with max-train length
09:10:48  <Bjarni> and then your argument fails
09:10:58  <Darkvater> yes, you could see it that way, but it is completely independent
09:11:13  <Darkvater> no
09:11:24  <Darkvater> autoreplace fails with max-train-length set. period
09:12:15  <Bjarni> and this guy wants autoreplace to make a train that is one unit longer than max-train-length
09:13:17  <Darkvater> no he doesn't. he just wants to replace to a dual-head and it fails
09:13:41  <Bjarni> singlehead -> dualhead = 1 unit longer
09:14:07  <Darkvater> yes so autoreplace should trim it, just as it always does
09:14:13  <Darkvater> I don't see the big problem in this
09:14:40  <Bjarni> trimming happens in another function when the replace is complete
09:14:49  <Bjarni> this is by design and pretty hard to change
09:14:56  <Darkvater> so? It still needs fixing
09:15:38  <Bjarni> and I did find a solution: removing the weird max length of 9 units, but then you didn't like that
09:15:42  <Darkvater> saying 'oh it is such a difficult bug to fix, so it is actually not a bug because of such and such' is not really logical is it?
09:16:47  <Bjarni> I fail to see the point in max train length
09:17:35  <Darkvater> 10:26 < [Shaman]> maybe want to set a fixed length for multiplayer tho, Bjarni
09:17:41  <Bjarni> I always wondered about it. I mean once we got the ability to remove it, we just made a new limit with no reason in mac allocated memory or anything
09:18:09  <Darkvater> 10:05 < Darkvater> for MP
09:18:38  <Celestar> bbl
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09:18:54  <Darkvater> and the fact that it's a hardcoded 9 doesn't make a diference at all. We can set it to 5 or 500 and you will still have the same problem
09:19:06  <Bjarni> then we should change it to a thing to save resources, which would allow multiheaded engines to count as one, which solves this
09:19:15  <Darkvater> hell even with it turned off autoreplace will fail if we have a 128-length train which is the absolute max
09:19:37  <Darkvater> multiheaded count as two since they take the place of two wagons
09:19:55  <Bjarni> yeah
09:20:55  <Bjarni> but if we set the limit based on "moveable units" (so a multiheaded pair counts as one), then autoreplace will not fail
09:21:06  <Bjarni> articualted engines already works like that
09:21:26  <Bjarni> Dm3 counts as one even through it's actually 3 full length units
09:21:41  <Bjarni> that is, when MB fixes the grf
09:22:08  <Bjarni> but proper articulated units only counts as one even when they are longer
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09:23:49  <Bjarni> but I think we should set a limit based on computer resources and not some kind of "I prefer the trains to stay that length", so we can make tricks like that to avoid horrible bugs and still not really violate the length thing
09:24:49  <Bjarni> specially since if people use it to fit in 5 tile stations (and why aren't they allowed to use 6 or 7 tile stations?), they would get a problem with 4 pixel long wagons. They could only use half the platform
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09:28:54  <Bjarni> I will go to get something to eat and that will also give you some time to give proper feedback on this: why keep max-train-length to a certain amount of units if we want the trains to fit on a certain station and there is no standard length of units anymore?
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09:47:59  <Darkvater> Bjarni: all I say, said and keep saying is control over game parameters in Multiplayer.
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09:49:55  <peter1138> maybe it should just fail
09:50:37  <peter1138> i.e. check if its going from single -> multihead, and if there are already 10 parts, fail
09:50:56  <peter1138> (of course, then people will complain that autoreplace still doesn't work...
09:50:58  <peter1138> )
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09:56:06  <Darkvater> wb Celestar
09:58:00  <peter1138> n'est pas
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09:58:09  <peter1138> hah
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09:59:10  <Darkvater> yah
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09:59:30  <Celestar_> argghh
09:59:37  <Celestar_> that wasn't my Svideo cable
09:59:57  *** Celestar_ is now known as Celestar
10:00:11  <[Shaman]> lol
10:02:26  <Darkvater> oook
10:02:30  <Darkvater> easy mistake to make
10:02:52  <Darkvater> the shapes are like totally the same you know :P
10:03:07  <Celestar> it's dark under the desk
10:03:18  <Celestar> ok nvm
10:03:35  <Darkvater> and your svideo cable has a little clip/lip as well? ^_^
10:03:45  <Darkvater> anyways
10:04:52  <Celestar> Bjarni: I still miss the bug report for 0.4.8
10:05:04  <Celestar> Darkvater: I didn't unplug the network cable
10:05:10  <Celestar> I tripped over the power cable
10:05:34  <peter1138> ah, you meant to trip over the svideo cable?
10:05:53  <Celestar> why don't you people stfu and go fixing bugs? ;>
10:06:24  <Darkvater> peter1138: rofl
10:15:23  <peter1138> do de do de dum
10:16:13  <Dred_furst`> is there a .patch or .diff file for yapf?
10:16:53  <Darkvater> Dred_furst`: just check out the yapf branch\
10:17:01  *** Dred_furst` is now known as Dred_furst
10:17:02  <Dred_furst> hmm ok
10:17:09  <Dred_furst> then patch whatever i need from there?
10:18:29  <Dred_furst> any patches you reccomend?
10:20:18  <Darkvater> no just compile and run
10:22:40  <Dred_furst> willanything integrate with yapf?
10:23:41  <Darkvater> !whatis willanything
10:26:17  <peter1138> pbs won't, heh
10:27:15  <Dred_furst> Nor with terragenesis
10:27:28  <Dred_furst> Which machine does pathfinding? the server or the clients?
10:27:36  <peter1138> both
10:27:46  <peter1138> terragenesis should apply
10:28:05  <Dred_furst> It didnt with tortoise with the latest yapf svn
10:28:30  <Dred_furst> why doesnt the server do the poathfinding and no others?
10:28:45  <Celestar> because of too much network traffic
10:29:07  <Celestar> you'd have 100s of Kilobytes per second in large games
10:29:09  <Dred_furst> Its just a train identifier, and positions surely?
10:29:28  <blathijs> Celestar: It might just actually be worth it to send pathfinder choices over I would think?
10:29:45  <blathijs> since they have a very high CPU usage to actual result ratio
10:30:09  <Celestar> blathijs: theoretically this needs testing
10:30:10  <peter1138> would be a lot of data
10:30:11  <Dred_furst> because if you have a nice powerful PC hosting, things are good :)
10:30:32  <Celestar> only if you have a really phat pipe
10:30:39  <peter1138> and if there are randoms in the pathfinder (heh) it would mess up
10:30:51  <Dred_furst> because my friend's PC sucks at CPU power, we both have large networks now
10:30:55  <peter1138> might be okay for LANs i guess
10:31:21  <Dred_furst> and i reasoned if i am in 64bit linux ill have more processor power than him by far
10:31:37  <blathijs> dunno, it would be a couple of hundreds of pathfinds per second max I think?
10:31:43  <Celestar> blathijs: ok ...
10:31:47  <Celestar> 100 operations
10:31:53  <Celestar> each operation takes 6 bytes
10:31:53  <blathijs> around 8 bytes per pathfind?
10:32:01  <Celestar> 600 bytes per second ..
10:32:11  <Dred_furst> you could send purely the positions, the next positions and the reciever could interpolate the data?
10:32:42  <Celestar> position, track chosen
10:32:43  <Celestar> that's it
10:33:15  * Celestar still misses Bjarni's replace-bug report in FS
10:34:39  <blathijs> Celestar: perhaps just track chosen could do, the receiver knows which vehicles need pathfinding
10:34:54  <blathijs> might be a little less robust, but takes it down to 1 byte per operation
10:34:55  <Dred_furst> Celestar why track chosen?
10:35:10  <Dred_furst> you would need a vector actually and a pos
10:35:13  <Dred_furst> Bingo done
10:35:32  <Dred_furst> Interpolate data :)
10:36:08  <Dred_furst> 6 ints per train
10:36:16  <peter1138> 6 ints?
10:36:20  <Dred_furst> 6 integers
10:36:30  <peter1138> i mean how did you work that out?
10:36:39  <Dred_furst> wait less
10:36:42  <Dred_furst> 4 integers
10:36:47  <Dred_furst> sorry would be 6
10:36:54  <Celestar> one integer
10:36:55  <Dred_furst> 3 for position, 3 for vector
10:37:00  <peter1138> lol
10:37:01  <Celestar> position is known
10:37:09  <Celestar> trains tend not to move in z direction
10:37:23  <Celestar> length is not important
10:37:25  <Dred_furst> Up and down hills
10:37:31  <Celestar> => one integer needed
10:37:37  <Dred_furst> Hmm ok :P
10:37:38  * ledow images the amazing hovering train...
10:37:45  <Celestar> but the question of whether a vehicle drivers up a hill is not a question of pathfinding
10:38:01  <Celestar> but merely a question of the hill being there
10:38:02  <peter1138> 3 bits?
10:38:15  <Celestar> peter1138: 8 bits
10:38:22  <peter1138> you can only pick one track
10:38:23  <Celestar> I can'T imagine how to transmit 3 bits over a network
10:38:31  <peter1138> that's a total of 6 possible values. hmm.
10:38:39  <peter1138> even then not all are actually possible
10:38:56  <Celestar> it doesn't matter
10:38:59  <Celestar> you need 21 bytes per train
10:39:02  <Dred_furst> mine would be 16bytes per train
10:39:15  <peter1138> 21 now?
10:39:22  <Dred_furst> why?
10:39:26  <Celestar> peter1138: 20 for the IP header, 1 for the data :)
10:39:27  <Dred_furst> position and vector?
10:39:30  <peter1138> oh, hehe
10:39:44  <peter1138> well, you need some way of identifying the engine too
10:39:52  <Dred_furst> Very true
10:39:55  <Celestar> peter1138: see blathijs' comment
10:39:56  <peter1138> that's 2 bytes
10:39:58  <Dred_furst> 18 :)
10:40:02  <Celestar> the client knows which vehicle is pathfinding
10:40:23  <Dred_furst> Thats 87.8Kb of data for 5000 trains
10:40:27  <Dred_furst> Hmm
10:40:38  <Dred_furst> Sending that to like 8 clients would be...
10:40:39  <peter1138> Celestar: hmm, 'spose
10:40:42  <Celestar> not all 5000 trains do pathfinding within a given second
10:40:54  <Dred_furst> 703.12kb, looks like peeps were right :)
10:41:01  <Dred_furst> Celestar still gotta account for it
10:41:05  <Celestar> we could do distributed pathfinding.
10:41:30  <Celestar> ;)
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10:41:46  <peter1138> distributed rendering
10:41:50  <Dred_furst> lol
10:41:59  <Celestar> ok back to the pathfinding BUGS ....
10:42:04  <Celestar> any news on those?
10:42:55  <peter1138> dunno
10:42:58  <peter1138> have you fixed 'em yet?
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10:44:09  <Celestar> nope
10:44:20  <Celestar> because I dunno where the problem resides (yet)
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10:47:01  <Dred_furst> Right, time to download fedora core 5 i386 for building a supercomputer
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11:00:50  <Celestar> back later
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11:21:28  <Celestar> root@niagara:[/]# psrinfo -pv
11:21:28  <Celestar> The physical processor has 32 virtual processors (0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31)
11:21:40  <Celestar> I kinda like this
11:33:55  <HentaiXP> wtf
11:34:10  <HentaiXP> I mean is that yours,works, lease?
11:35:59  <Celestar> testbox
11:36:07  <Celestar> might purchase it as fileserver
11:36:17  <Bjarni> <Celestar>	Bjarni: I still miss the bug report for 0.4.8 <-- well, I went to get something to eat as I said, and then stuff happened and I got delayed
11:36:45  <Bjarni> so I didn't touch the computer since I wrote that I left (wow, big surprise there)
11:36:49  <Celestar> wow
11:36:58  <peter1138> didn't touch a computer?
11:37:02  <peter1138> how did you survive?
11:37:04  <Celestar> damnit I'm wondering why servers still have 230V inputs
11:37:26  <Celestar> the whole rack system would be much more efficient with a 12, 24 or 48V DC supply :S
11:37:29  <peter1138> because you've got the wrong power supplies
11:37:42  <Bjarni> <peter1138>	how did you survive? <-- no
11:37:54  <Bjarni> that is why my script took over
11:37:57  <peter1138> Celestar: you can get them
11:38:03  <peter1138>
11:38:36  <Celestar> lol
11:38:40  <Celestar> 70% efficiency
11:38:43  <peter1138> yeah, heeh
11:40:36  <HentaiXP> Celestar, and I wish I could put together a dual opteron 250 setup
11:40:38  <HentaiXP> 240
11:40:56  <Celestar> HentaiXP: I have another test box here, Dual Opteron 254
11:41:56  <HentaiXP> I meant 240 in there, but dang man
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11:42:22  <Celestar> 240? they're not made (anymore)
11:43:01  <Celestar> You get 246s for about 150 bucks
11:43:10  <HentaiXP> I"m cheap
11:43:21  <HentaiXP> saw them on ebay for around 80-100 for two of them
11:43:24  <HentaiXP> 240 that is
11:43:32  <Celestar> that's decent
11:43:35  <Celestar> they might overclock well
11:46:43  * Celestar wonders how well the 35W Dual Core Athlons overclock
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11:53:54  <Bjarni> <-- feedback needed
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11:54:46  <Bjarni> I wrote the 3 solutions I came up with, so I want feedback on which one we should use or a 4th one
11:55:48  <[Shaman]> i like 3.
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11:56:19  <[Shaman]> is there a way to 'speed up' the game in MP? :o
11:57:00  <Bjarni> no
11:57:08  <[Shaman]> k
11:57:15  <[Shaman]> would be funky if it were possible :P
11:57:18  <Bjarni> there used to be fast forward in MP, but it was a sure way to cause desyncs, so we disabled it
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11:58:13  <Celestar> Bjarni: suggestion. make a patch setting for maximum train length
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11:58:29  <Bjarni> yeah, that would be a logical next step
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11:58:54  <Bjarni> oh, I forgot to write that as a future plan of 3)
11:59:01  <Bjarni> but that is my plan
12:01:08  <Bjarni> Darkvater: do you have any feedback?
12:02:01  <Bjarni> or is it good enough that I got support of a shaman, which is always good here in our global tribal village
12:02:12  <[Shaman]> \e/
12:02:15  * [Shaman] goes chant
12:05:31  <Bjarni> bah, I work on finding a solution to a problem Darkvater really wants to get fixed and then he leaves so he  can't give feedback on the solution :|
12:06:02  <[Shaman]> at least there's a sollution ;)
12:07:50  <Darkvater> Bjarni: what is it?
12:08:02  <Bjarni>
12:08:17  <Bjarni> placed somewhere, where everybody can read it
12:08:26  <Bjarni> best hiding place in the world :p
12:09:22  <Darkvater> why do you ask me? You already know my favour is 1)
12:09:24  <Darkvater> 2 is stupid
12:09:28  <Darkvater> 3 is even stupider
12:09:34  <Darkvater> computer resources..
12:09:46  <Bjarni> it appears that everybody else is in favour of 3
12:09:52  <Bjarni> I like 2
12:09:57  <Darkvater> MP
12:10:00  <Bjarni> 1 is ugly code
12:10:03  <Darkvater> as said a zillion times before
12:10:29  <Eddi|zuHause> i like 3
12:10:47  <Darkvater> no 1 is the proper way to go
12:10:48  <Bjarni> it kind of is computer resources in MP, that is the turning point, right?
12:10:49  <peter1138> 1 already happens if it's enabled
12:10:59  <peter1138> Bjarni: i already stated the simple solution
12:11:05  <Darkvater> fix it so the train keeps its previous length no matter what the maximum train-length is set to
12:11:08  <Eddi|zuHause> create a max. train length in tiles, not wagons
12:11:09  <peter1138> completely fail if it will produce a train that is too long
12:11:17  <peter1138> so you get left with the old engine
12:11:31  <Celestar> and issue a vehicle warning message ...
12:11:33  <peter1138> yeah
12:11:39  * Celestar prefers peter1138's option
12:11:45  <Bjarni> peter1138: no, because it tries to add the wagons, and then remove. Since it is too long "behind the screen", it completely fails to add the wagons at all and leaves them in the depot, hence the original bug report
12:11:47  <Celestar> so that you know when your capacity gets reduced
12:12:47  <peter1138> Bjarni: do the check before ever buying anything
12:12:52  <Celestar> we should release rc1 on the weekend, objections?
12:14:40  <Darkvater> I don't see what is so hard about this whole thing
12:14:45  <Darkvater> 1. you know maximum train length
12:14:45  <Bjarni> peter1138: so basically you want that if you got 8 wagons and disabled mammoth trains, then you can't autoreplace to multiheaded engines and you have to remove a wagon on each of them manually?
12:14:50  <Darkvater> 2. you know the actual train length
12:14:57  <Darkvater> 3. you know how long the new train is
12:15:11  <Darkvater> 4. you can *EASILY* calculate if it will fit and if not what to remove
12:15:35  <Eddi|zuHause> that can be tricky, if wagons are gonna be replaced also
12:15:48  <peter1138> Bjarni: yes, *or* enable the remove wagon option
12:16:15  <peter1138> Darkvater: yes, the thing is it should only remove if the wagon removal option is enabled
12:16:23  <peter1138> (imho)
12:16:31  <Darkvater> isn't that obvious from the start?
12:16:38  <peter1138> you've not stated it :)
12:16:49  <Darkvater> or you (bjarni) were under the impression that I wanted it otherwise?
12:16:55  <Darkvater> whatelse for is that option then? :)
12:16:56  <Bjarni> 5. max-train-length as it is now is stupid because it got little to do with length of the train because of newgrf short wagons. If they are half length, then you can with the engine fit a max length train in 3 tiles, but autoreplace it to fit 5 tiles with no objections from autoreplace
12:17:12  <Darkvater> shit boss-alert
12:17:16  <peter1138> max-train-length is number of wagons
12:17:24  <Eddi|zuHause> which is stupid
12:17:26  <peter1138> indeed, it doesn't care about length
12:17:31  <peter1138> but it's not designed to
12:17:55  <Bjarni> yeah, not max train length as it was originally intended because all units had the same length at that time
12:17:59  <peter1138> even if it did, you'd still need to handle it explicitly when doing single -> dual head
12:18:49  <Eddi|zuHause> i vote for: max-train-length should be changed from wagons to (half)tiles, totally independent from this bug
12:20:13  <Bjarni> if I (as it is in my working copy right now) set dualheaded engines to count as one unit (just like articualted engines do now. Tenders don't count), then this problem would be gone and autoreplace could make a too long train and then after the replace is over, it checks the new length compared to the old one and removes wagons if needed
12:21:16  <Bjarni> 	<Eddi|zuHause>	i vote for: max-train-length should be changed from wagons to (half)tiles, totally independent from this bug <-- mow that's stupid as well, but less stupid
12:21:24  <[Shaman]> lol
12:23:12  <[Shaman]> what this mean anyways: dbg: pbs: (3) no nodes encountered (RV)
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12:30:50  <Bjarni> [Shaman]: it means what it said: the road vehicle didn't find any nodes
12:31:47  <[Shaman]> there are no road vehicles >_<
12:32:09  <[Shaman]> and all the trains have a direct path to their destination
12:32:55  <Bjarni> using YAPF?
12:33:07  <[Shaman]> NPF atm
12:33:14  <[Shaman]> had it disabled, turned it on, same error
12:33:15  <Bjarni> hmm
12:33:20  <Bjarni> weird
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12:36:51  <hylje> xgl is cool
12:36:52  <hylje> :x
12:39:24  <Celestar> vici@galadriel:[/home/vici/Documents/JMF-2.1.1e/bin]> telnet niagaramgt <= didn't think I'd ever use this command again
12:42:43  <peter1138> Bjarni: RV = reverse
12:42:58  <peter1138> it's the stuck trains phenomenom
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12:51:00  * peter1138 watches outlook attempting to select 59978 messages in one folder
12:51:05  <peter1138> maybe that was a bad idea
12:51:22  <TheMask96> lol :)
12:51:25  <TheMask96> bad idea :)
12:51:41  <TheMask96> tell me in a few days if you succeeded ;)
12:51:47  <peter1138> it's Outlook 2007 Beta
12:51:57  <peter1138> i wanted to delete them all before running the indexer
12:52:15  <TheMask96> does it work better as the previous versions?
12:55:29  <peter1138> i don't know yet, i've not got very far :-)
12:55:32  <peter1138> it looks pretty
12:55:39  <peter1138> which is of course what you want from an email program...
12:56:48  <hylje> yes
13:04:29  <Celestar> peter1138: Instead of playing with some inferior email program, you should fix the pathfinder bugs *runs*
13:05:58  <Bjarni> 	<peter1138>	Bjarni: RV = reverse <-- ahh, but it's stupid to use RV for two different things in the game
13:07:19  <Bjarni> 	<peter1138>	it looks pretty <-- that's the MS way of doing things. "It looks pretty, but I don't know if the core of the app is any good" :p
13:07:22  * Bjarni hides
13:07:32  <peter1138> hehe
13:07:49  <peter1138> Bjarni: i did just write your autoreplace train length doodah
13:08:18  <Celestar> (gdb) break pathfind.c:666
13:08:21  <Celestar> hr hr
13:08:28  <Bjarni> what did you write?
13:08:55  <peter1138>
13:08:57  <Bjarni> I got the one, that makes dualheaded engines one unit in this count, which fixes this issue
13:08:59  <peter1138> compiled but untested
13:09:57  <peter1138> TheMask96: it's selected them all... now to (force) delete
13:10:07  <Bjarni> ahh, like that
13:10:15  <Bjarni> already I don't like it :p
13:10:32  <peter1138> yeah, it won't work with wagon removal
13:11:47  <Eddi|zuHause> is there ever a reason to not use wagon removal?
13:11:50  <Bjarni> I don't get why 3) aren't the idea solution in your eyes :/
13:12:22  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, Darkvater didn't like autoreplace to remove wagons from his trains... don't ask me why, but I enabled this feature on his request
13:12:43  <Eddi|zuHause> but could it at least be default on? ;)
13:12:58  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause: there is a reason
13:12:59  <Bjarni> part of the request was default off
13:13:09  <Celestar> (gdb) p fd.best_track
13:13:10  <Celestar>  = 13 '\r'
13:13:15  <peter1138> Celestar: !
13:13:19  <peter1138> imaginary tracks
13:13:39  <Celestar> peter1138:  .... I think I found the problem (possibly)
13:13:47  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... can i then request a wagon removal based on capacity? :)
13:14:36  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: make a feature request, where you specify what you want it to do and I will take a look
13:14:54  <Celestar> peter1138: the problem is apparently, once NTP found a path to the destination, it WILL stop searching
13:14:55  <Bjarni> I mean if it got 2 different types of cargo, what then and so on
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13:15:52  <Bjarni> bah, I'm expecting an important email and now I lost the connection to my mailserver :(
13:15:53  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... same wagon with different cargo... that's gonna be intresting ;)
13:16:45  <Bjarni> no, I mean like 3 livestock cars and 3 grain cars
13:17:33  <Bjarni> start to think about this and also more unusual combos and write it down. This is how patches start if you intend to remove all bugs by design from the start
13:19:21  <Bjarni> 	<peter1138>	Eddi|zuHause: there is a reason <-- actually what is the reason?
13:19:28  <Celestar> we should REALLY stop thinking in terms of "patches" :S
13:19:36  <Bjarni> ok
13:19:36  <Celestar> we do not code patches
13:19:41  <Bjarni> s/patches/features
13:19:43  <Celestar> we're not special casing
13:20:20  <Bjarni> actually I was thinking more like feature, but people tend to think of such as .diff and call them patches
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13:37:21  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm away over the (long) weekend, i might think about something ;)
13:38:17  <Celestar> after the weekend 0.4.8rc1 should be there
13:38:49  <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. weekend starts this evening ;)
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13:52:01  <peter1138> 14:14 < Celestar> peter1138: the problem is apparently, once NTP found a path to the destination, it WILL stop searching
13:52:11  <peter1138> is that a problem?
13:52:20  <peter1138> presumably it won't then try to find a shorter path
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13:54:21  <Celestar> right
13:54:36  <Celestar> that problem occurs only in the "no junction "situation"
13:55:51  <peter1138> ?
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13:58:24  <Celestar> because if there's a junction in between (on the long route), it will stop searching there (temporarily) and start from the junction right at the depot
13:58:41  <peter1138> o_O
13:58:44  <peter1138> how strange
13:58:46  <Sacro> afternoon all
13:59:54  <Celestar> peter1138: so the operation is: search one branch until a junction is found, then search next branch and so on
14:00:13  <peter1138> right
14:00:17  <peter1138> but if there is no branch
14:00:24  <Celestar> as soon as the destination is met, abort
14:00:27  <peter1138> it will get to the destination and assume that's the best path?
14:01:21  <Celestar> seems so
14:01:28  <peter1138> that's quite retarded
14:03:06  <Celestar> if (tpf->enum_proc(tile, tpf->userdata, si.first_track, si.cur_length)) return
14:03:46  <Celestar> that returns "true" if the station in question has been found.
14:03:53  * Celestar votes for removing OPF
14:04:10  * Celestar also votes for closing the bug reports in question, since these are inherent problems of NTP
14:05:46  <Sacro> OPF is amusing though :P
14:05:47  <peter1138> OPF is removed for trains
14:06:19  <peter1138> what will you use for road vehicles and signals?
14:06:24  <peter1138> (and boats)
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14:07:10  <Celestar> peter1138: use YAPF
14:07:16  <Celestar> peter1138: I mean not for 0.4.8
14:07:17  <Dred_furst> im making a supercomputer :)
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14:10:45  <peter1138> YAPF is suitable for signals?
14:11:19  <Celestar> yask KUDr_wrk :)
14:11:29  <peter1138> KUDr: is it? :)
14:12:42  <Sacro> think you need KUDr_wrk
14:13:24  <peter1138> KUDr_wrk: is it? :)
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14:15:14  <hylje> hmm ottd does have some problems with xgl :X
14:15:40  <peter1138> not quite
14:15:44  <peter1138> it's SDL
14:16:13  <hylje> k
14:16:20  <hylje> forced transparency :<
14:16:29  <peter1138> you can fix it with a quick export
14:16:34  <hylje> gief
14:16:43  <peter1138> some environment var concerning RGBA visuals
14:16:57  <peter1138> nothing a quick google won't find
14:18:49  <hylje> yah
14:18:50  <hylje> ty
14:22:07  <peter1138> i found it much slower, though
14:22:09  <Sacro> grrr, what distros have prebuilt xorg 7.1 packages? or are you all gentoo'ers?
14:22:12  <peter1138> so standard X for me
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14:22:41  <Sacro> i have x with composite at the moment
14:22:54  <peter1138> composite's pretty slow too, heh
14:23:01  <peter1138> damn 32MB GF2MX, i guess
14:23:29  <hylje> Sacro: gentooer :>
14:23:41  * peter1138 uses debian / ubuntu
14:23:49  <peter1138> dunno what version of X it is though
14:23:57  <peter1138> what's in 7.1 that's a must-have?
14:24:38  <Sacro> peter1138: new GLX stuff
14:25:45  <Sacro> can anyone loan me a pipe?
14:25:58  <Bjarni> why?
14:26:04  <Bjarni> did you break your's?
14:26:10  <Sacro> Bjarni: i cant find it on the US keymap
14:26:18  <Bjarni> |
14:26:30  <Sacro> Bjarni: thanks :)
14:27:42  <Bjarni> ohh, this reminds of the "inverted 3" button, that broke quote on
14:27:53  <Bjarni> it's the one between w and r
14:27:59  <Bjarni> "oh, which one is that?"
14:28:00  <Bjarni> :D
14:28:48  <Sacro> i dont seem to be able to get GNOME, KDE and X stuff to all have the UK Keyboard
14:31:53  <peter1138> it didn't work right for me with Xgl
14:34:23  <Sacro> just to prove bobingabout wrong, what rev was 0.4.7? my l33t svn skills arent that good :)
14:34:49  <peter1138> rsomethingorother
14:35:30  <Sacro> peter1138: useful :)
14:35:40  <peter1138> yup
14:36:03  <peter1138> you could be really useful and point out that 0.4.7 will be in a branch, not in trunk
14:36:22  <Bjarni> Sacro: what are you trying to proof?
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14:37:30  <Sacro>
14:37:31  <KUDr_wrk> <peter1138> KUDr_wrk: is it? :) <- I can add support for signals
14:37:53  <Sacro> KUDr_wrk: it'd be more fun for the pathfinder without them :)
14:41:35  <Bjarni> Sacro: well, I thought I might as well help you
14:41:47  <Bjarni> what a piece of s*** he just said :p
14:42:07  <Sacro> Bjarni: yeah i know, you dont have him on your msn list though
14:42:36  <Sacro> even more, you dont have a 4GB hard drive of his on loan...
14:42:42  <hylje> hmm
14:42:54  <hylje> could you include keyboard shortcuts in button tooltips ?
14:43:11  *** Sacro is now known as Sacro|AFK
14:43:22  <Sacro|AFK> thought i registered that...
14:43:42  <Sacro|AFK> Bjarni: that pipes coming in useful :)
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14:45:29  <GoneWacko> :-o
14:45:46  <KUDr_wrk> <peter1138> KUDr_wrk: is it? :) <- I can add support for signals <- sorry, i don't understand
14:46:13  <peter1138> ?
14:46:13  <KUDr_wrk> sh*t
14:46:22  <KUDr_wrk> <Sacro> KUDr_wrk: it'd be more fun for the pathfinder without them :) <- don't understand
14:46:34  <KUDr_wrk> peter1138: sorry
14:46:40  <KUDr_wrk> pasted wrong line
14:48:07  <Celestar> ?
14:48:27  <KUDr_wrk> YAPF can support signals
14:48:38  <KUDr_wrk> but some work is needed
14:49:02  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: it needn't do that now
14:49:10  <Sacro|AFK> KUDr_wrk: i whole network with no signals, will be fun for YAPF to avoid crashes
14:49:12  <Bjarni> <KUDr_wrk>	pasted wrong line <-- you can read about such things on if it contains links to gay porn and stuff like that :P
14:49:22  <KUDr_wrk> aha
14:49:27  <Celestar> peter1138: I think the problem doesn't occur with siglans :)
14:50:10  <KUDr_wrk> Bjarni: yes, but i have here some guys talking to me whole the day
14:50:22  <KUDr_wrk> so i do mistakes
14:50:26  <peter1138> Celestar: no, but signals uses OPF... and you wanted to remove it :)
14:50:32  <Bjarni> such mean guys
14:50:48  <Bjarni> maybe they even want you to do your job >_<
14:50:55  <peter1138> disgusting
14:51:10  <KUDr_wrk> peter1138: Celestar: i guess we can maintain OPF for signals until we have other solution(s)
14:51:11  <Bjarni> like DV's shit boss?
14:51:31  <Celestar> peter1138: removing it for trains ....
14:52:30  <Darkvater> whazzup?
14:52:31  <peter1138> ...
14:52:35  <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: OPF is not used for trains
14:52:36  <Celestar> Darkvater: NTP sucks
14:52:38  <peter1138> "OPF" isn't used for trains...
14:52:42  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: I mean NTP
14:52:45  <KUDr_wrk> aha, NTP too?
14:52:46  <peter1138> and NTP isn't "OPF"
14:52:48  <Darkvater> opf and signals don't compute. there is no opf anymore for trains
14:53:11  <Celestar> Darkvater: OPF is used for signalling
14:53:18  <Celestar> NTP is used for train pathfiding
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14:53:38  <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: if you remove NTP, there will remain only NPF
14:53:47  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: only YAPF
14:53:58  <KUDr_wrk> heh, is it good idea now
14:53:59  <Darkvater> really? OPF is used for signalling? he
14:54:09  <KUDr_wrk> i would recommend to wait with it
14:54:20  <peter1138> Darkvater: don't you know anything about this code? ;po
14:54:28  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: the problem is .. NTP is rather faulty
14:54:50  <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: NTP was there long time and nobody complained
14:54:57  <peter1138> Celestar: have you found the reason for the (pseudo) randomness?
14:55:00  <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: so it must be fixable
14:55:14  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: the problems appear only in edge cases
14:55:35  <Celestar> peter1138: Random(); ?
14:55:36  <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: then we have no reason to hurry removing it
14:55:48  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: no, don't hurry
14:55:58  <Celestar> the question is whether to spend time fixing it
14:56:03  <peter1138> edge cases only appear when testing other bugs, eheh
14:56:07  <Darkvater> peter1138: I know a little when I fixed a pf-overflow, but nothing about signalling
14:56:23  <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: Random() is there to find always different best path
14:56:39  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: NTP doesn't always find the best path
14:56:58  <peter1138> Darkvater: i learned lots when i did my diag track under bridges stuff
14:57:02  <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: and it can't be fixed?
14:57:18  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: I'm not sure yet
14:57:30  <Celestar> I'm at work so I can spend only little time doing it :)
14:57:41  <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: then assign it to me and i can try it after merging YAPF
14:57:45  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: but the cases are on the official bug reports to 0.4.8
14:58:08  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: if YAPF is merged, I really see no reason in fixing that ...
14:58:24  <peter1138> yeah
14:58:36  <peter1138> if YAPF is as good as the benchmarks seems, we should just use that
14:58:42  <Darkvater> donnu, NTP is tested, works and fast
14:58:55  <Darkvater> it should stay at least long enough to iron out all yapf-bugs
14:58:57  <peter1138> having pathfinder options is... YASPO
14:59:01  <KUDr_wrk> YAPF is relatively HUGE in comparison with NTP and therefore it is not bad idea to have there also some light (even not so good PF)
14:59:14  <Celestar> Darkvater: stay yes, but spending time fixing this problem?
15:00:02  *** mikl [n=mikl@pdpc/supporter/active/mikl] has quit ["In the end, all that matters is your relation with God..."]
15:00:06  <Darkvater> how many problems are there?
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15:00:16  <Celestar> 184 185
15:00:20  <webfreakz> hi
15:00:24  <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: OK, then let NTP as an option
15:00:30  *** Sacro|AFK is now known as Sacro
15:01:47  <Darkvater> isn't that waypoints? Which let me add doesn't work for NPF either
15:02:38  <webfreakz> last week i have been playing with a self-compiled openttd and modified the files /table/strings.h in order to raise the maximum speed of vehicles, i had been playing the game using this compilation and have several savegames
15:02:38  <webfreakz> today i reverted all changes and started with a clean SVN, compiled, opened the game but i could play the savegames described above.
15:02:38  <webfreakz> could this be due to the fact openttd saved settings from strings.h in its savegame?
15:03:01  <peter1138> table/strings.h to change speeds !?
15:03:46  <webfreakz> hmm, wrong filename
15:05:07  <webfreakz> ah, i meant "/table/engines.h"
15:05:23  <peter1138> was that the only change before?
15:05:43  <peter1138> oh, you *could* play the savegames... yes, why wouldn't you be able to?
15:06:13  <webfreakz> yes, i raised the maximum speed of Maglev'4 trains to 1280km/h and raised the maximum ammount of HP but i can't recall the value, and the bridge speed limit of the most expensive one to 1000km/h
15:07:30  <webfreakz> well, now with a compiled clean compiled one it says:
15:07:30  <webfreakz> "Load game failed: found unkown tag in savegame (sync error)."
15:07:30  <webfreakz> "Game Load Failed"
15:07:51  <webfreakz> i must say it is with /branch/yapf/
15:08:02  <webfreakz> but the savegames before yesterday i can open
15:08:21  <KUDr_wrk> webfreakz: it is OK
15:08:24  <webfreakz> the only question i've got is: can i open it?
15:08:46  <webfreakz> KUDr: i already assumed you didn't modified anything related to this :)
15:09:02  <KUDr_wrk> savegame was different yesterday
15:09:13  <webfreakz> ?
15:09:15  <KUDr_wrk> and before yesterday evening
15:09:22  <KUDr_wrk> was stes aside
15:09:23  <webfreakz> but it should open?
15:09:26  <KUDr_wrk> no
15:09:39  <webfreakz> so you did modify something?
15:09:39  <KUDr_wrk> step aside
15:09:44  <KUDr_wrk> yes
15:09:47  <webfreakz> hmm
15:09:52  * webfreakz is screwed
15:09:57  <KUDr_wrk> used different way for saving settings
15:10:07  <KUDr_wrk> so savegames was incompatible
15:10:15  <webfreakz> is there any way i can open it?
15:10:17  <KUDr_wrk> yesterday and today's
15:10:32  <KUDr_wrk> use yesterday branch
15:11:26  <webfreakz> and then?
15:11:29  <KUDr_wrk> webfreakz: but don't worry. It was experiment and was reverted
15:11:36  <KUDr_wrk> then nothing
15:11:50  <KUDr_wrk> no way how to continue on this game with new code
15:11:55  <KUDr_wrk> i am sorry for that
15:12:04  <KUDr_wrk> it was my mistake
15:12:08  <peter1138> use the old version until your game's finished
15:12:13  <webfreakz> yeah but if i go back to yesterday's version, will i be able to  open it e.g next week?
15:12:14  <KUDr_wrk> yes
15:12:29  <peter1138> the perils of using development versions :)
15:12:34  <webfreakz> :(
15:12:41  <KUDr_wrk> next week with yesterday version yes
15:12:41  <webfreakz> well, my games never end :)
15:12:48  <webfreakz> haha
15:12:48  <KUDr_wrk> with next week version not
15:12:57  <webfreakz> so it is screwed?
15:13:09  <KUDr_wrk> webfreakz: then move back one day
15:13:22  <KUDr_wrk> and lost last day's changes
15:13:24  <peter1138> you don't *have* to update
15:13:32  <webfreakz> i do want to update
15:13:48  <webfreakz> then i've to use the the savegame which works
15:13:54  <webfreakz> too bad :)
15:13:59  <Darkvater> well you could skip the unknown chunk with a little code
15:14:16  <Darkvater> but I'm not going to write it for you
15:14:21  <webfreakz> i've totally got no idea on how i could to that
15:14:29  <webfreakz> *do that
15:14:43  <Darkvater> I just told you I am NOT going to do that
15:14:53  <webfreakz> i read that
15:14:54  <KUDr_wrk> webfreakz: then do your network again - it will be better than before
15:15:30  <glx> hmm it is also possible to save the game in uncompressed mode and fix it by hand (removed the now invalid chunk)
15:15:43  <KUDr_wrk> yes
15:15:50  <Darkvater> mine's easier
15:15:53  <Darkvater> :)
15:16:12  <Darkvater> bah bloomberg freaks out :S
15:16:27  <webfreakz> glx: how could i save it uncompressed?
15:17:06  <webfreakz> KUDr: was it this svn-commit which changed everything?
15:18:13  <KUDr_wrk> webfreakz: yes, so the non-standard save/load was from 4948 to 4956
15:18:29  <KUDr_wrk> so you need to get 4956
15:19:09  <KUDr_wrk> and it will work, but your savegames will not be supported by newer versions
15:19:42  <webfreakz> hmm, well, it just think it's better to play using the newest SVN and then play with the last saved savegame which does work
15:22:42  <Darkvater> I think the compressor is in openttd.cfg available for selection
15:22:44  <Darkvater> < home
15:23:16  <glx> yes savegame_format = none should work
15:24:02  <webfreakz> ok
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15:25:05  <webfreakz> hi
15:25:16  <XeryusTC> < check my answer :)
15:25:25  <Sacro> hi webfreakz
15:25:35  <webfreakz> hey sacro ^^,
15:25:52  * Sacro wants underground stations for down the tube
15:26:06  <Bjarni> Sacro: then code it
15:26:23  <webfreakz> XeryusTC: great answer
15:26:26  <Sacro> Bjarni: i cant get eclipse to work :(
15:26:34  <Bjarni> XeryusTC: I saw your reply. It's short and precise, just like it should be :D
15:26:50  <webfreakz> :)
15:26:53  <XeryusTC> yes :)
15:27:40  <Bjarni> Sacro: you don't need eclipse, you just need to code the source, so any text editor is valid
15:27:56  <Bjarni> once you are done, I will be happy to compile it for you
15:27:59  <Bjarni> :p
15:28:43  <webfreakz> maybe it doesn't even compile
15:28:46  <webfreakz> ^^
15:29:14  <Sacro> Bjarni: i have a compiler
15:31:17  <Sacro> brb, reboot
15:31:19  *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-87-102-35-187.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"]
15:33:55  *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-87-102-35-187.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
15:34:35  <Sacro> damn glibc
15:35:20  * Sacro upgrads gaim to svn
15:35:36  *** Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
15:36:00  <Sacro> ooh tis a Brianetta
15:36:21  <XeryusTC> w00t Brianetta :D
15:36:54  <[Shaman]> RUN!!
15:36:56  <Brianetta> (:
15:37:08  <XeryusTC> Brianetta: see coop channel
15:37:11  <XeryusTC> im off to dinner now
15:37:12  <Brianetta> I did
15:37:17  <XeryusTC> ok :)
15:37:21  * Brianetta shrugsCheck your grfs
15:39:48  <Sacro> anyone here ever blocked someone in gaim? how do you unblock?
15:40:10  <Brianetta> You blocked bobingbout?
15:40:46  <Sacro> Brianetta: not yet...close to though
15:40:54  <Brianetta> I'm tempted.
15:41:01  <Brianetta> Mind you, I don't know how to unblock.
15:42:25  <Sacro> Brianetta: you use gaim too?
15:42:57  <Sacro> hehe, the funniest thing was when i moved house, and didnt tell him, and then my dad got the phone disconnected, he thought i'd died
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15:45:42  <peter1138> "funny"
15:45:43  *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-87-102-35-187.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
15:45:46  <peter1138> "funny"
15:45:55  <Brianetta> I'd file that under funny
15:45:59  <peter1138> what is this relationship of yours with bobingabout?
15:46:08  <Brianetta> bobingabout is a pest.
15:46:14  * peter1138 wonders if there are any ottders local to him
15:46:30  <peter1138> (i think jvassie is near, but he's an evil ttdper!)
15:46:42  * Brianetta hisses
15:46:51  <Brianetta> THere'll never be a TTDP nightly server.
15:46:52  <peter1138> well, not really :)
15:47:15  <peter1138> why not?
15:47:24  <Brianetta> Ni imgination, that lot.
15:47:26  <Sacro> humm, X recieved SIG 15
15:47:28  <hylje> who is bobingabout
15:47:35  <Brianetta> hylje: Tash
15:47:44  <Brianetta> bobingabout is his forum name
15:47:55  <peter1138> why isn't it bobbing, anyway?
15:48:02  <Brianetta> lol
15:48:19  <Brianetta> That's been on my mind for months, but i just shrug and say,
15:48:23  <Brianetta> "Hey, it's a proper noun."
15:51:40  <Brianetta> It's quiet.
15:51:48  * Brianetta heads over to
15:52:52  <Sacro> Brianetta: its apparently been his online name for ages
15:54:28  *** peter1138 changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.4.7 | WebTranslator2 public beta test begun! | Website: * (Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Bug-reports: bugs) | Anyone posting a address twice in 10 minutes will be banned
15:54:45  <peter1138> NEW NAZI MADE-UP-ON-THE-SPOT RULE!
15:55:00  <hylje> z0mg
15:55:06  <peter1138> (and it applies to Bjarni mostly :P)
15:56:00  <Brianetta>
15:56:07  * Brianetta giggles (:
15:57:47  * XeryusTC is back
15:58:11  <XeryusTC> peter1138: wat about :P
15:58:16  <peter1138> *sigh*
15:58:37  *** peter1138 changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.4.7 | WebTranslator2 public beta test begun! | Website: * (Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Bug-reports: bugs) | Anyone posting any or URL twice in 10 minutes will be banned
15:58:50  <peter1138> any other popular quote sites? :P
15:59:39  <XeryusTC> uhm, the only other one i know is dutch
16:00:12  <Sacro> XeryusTC:
16:00:34  <XeryusTC> [17:58:50] <XeryusTC> peter1138: wat about :P
16:01:32  <Celestar> hm .. hi peops
16:02:14  <XeryusTC> hi Celestar
16:03:03  <Celestar> peter1138: I see no way fixing the pathfinding problems without doing major changes to NTP
16:03:06  * Sacro doesnt read up muhc
16:04:30  * Celestar wants/needs bridges merged
16:04:37  <Sacro> Celestar: go on then
16:04:48  * Celestar waits for 0.4.8rc1 to be released
16:06:02  *** |Jeroen| [] has joined #openttd
16:06:08  <Celestar> then I'll do custombridgeheads and crossingbridges
16:06:22  <Celestar> and I also need more feedback on correctbridgebbs
16:07:36  <Sacro> Celestar: cant you branch off rc1 and merge bridges?
16:09:42  <peter1138> they're separate anyway
16:12:06  <Celestar> they re
16:12:47  <Sacro> well why not merge it, then us nightly players can test it
16:12:49  <Celestar> peter1138: any bash address or the same bash address? ;)
16:13:32  <Sacro> peter1138: what if you quickly sneak in 3 posts?
16:15:24  <Celestar> wee
16:15:43  <Celestar> elrails are properly drawn below bridges now
16:17:23  <Celestar> hm
16:17:33  <Celestar> ok I'll first try to fix the last remaining npf bug
16:17:39  <Celestar> other people will bug my ass off
16:17:46  <webfreakz> lol
16:19:09  *** Osai [] has quit []
16:20:22  * peter1138 kicks CIA-3
16:20:24  <CIA-3> ow
16:20:37  <webfreakz> huh?
16:22:12  * webfreakz slams CIA-3
16:22:19  * webfreakz kicks CIA-3
16:22:19  <CIA-3> ow
16:22:23  <webfreakz> hmm
16:24:26  <Sacro> how do you stop join notifications for a channel im not in?
16:25:16  <webfreakz> unplug your network cable
16:25:27  <webfreakz> :)
16:25:38  <Sacro> webfreakz: wireless
16:25:45  <webfreakz> ah crap
16:26:02  <webfreakz> disconnect from the server?
16:26:06  <webfreakz> and reconnect?
16:26:11  <CIA-3> celestar * r4968 /branch/bridge/npf.c:
16:26:11  <CIA-3> [bridge] -Fix: Make NPF plan over bridges again. When "entering" a bridge or
16:26:11  <CIA-3> tunnel tile during FollowTrack, only check for the correct direction if we ENTER
16:26:11  <CIA-3> the tunnel or bridge in question, not leave it (because if can enter a tile, we
16:26:11  <CIA-3> assume that there's a corresponding exit portal anyway, same for bridges)
16:26:26  <Sacro> Celestar: commit bridges :)
16:26:31  <Celestar> cool cool
16:26:55  <webfreakz> yippie
16:27:38  <Celestar> not that fast
16:27:45  <Celestar> I first need to update the branch
16:28:02  <Sacro> Celestar: quickly
16:28:44  <webfreakz> hurry!
16:30:07  <Celestar> CHILL
16:30:18  <Celestar> (=
16:31:24  <peter1138> hmm. 17:30
16:31:34  <webfreakz> 18.31?
16:32:14  <Celestar> ?
16:32:19  <webfreakz> it's 18:32 here
16:34:34  <CIA-3> celestar * r4969 /branch/bridge/ (47 files in 5 dirs): Sync with trunk up to 4968
16:34:36  <Sacro> 17:35 here
16:34:44  <Sacro> Celestar: :) go for merge?
16:34:47  <Sacro> brb
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16:35:11  <webfreakz> hi sacro
16:35:18  <webfreakz> long time no see ^^
16:35:31  <Sacro> hey webfreakz, all of 30 seconds
16:35:39  * Sacro screams - bobingabout has found him on msn
16:35:45  <peter1138> 47 files... yum.
16:35:56  <webfreakz> sacro: not even 20 seconds ;)
16:35:59  <Celestar> language ...
16:36:21  <Sacro> Celestar: english?
16:36:49  * Sacro only speaks english, and that isnt too good
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16:38:13  * webfreakz is off here and is going to play Trackmania Nations :)
16:39:02  *** webfreakz [n=Ronald@] has quit ["cya"]
16:39:36  <Celestar> vici@rivendell:[/home/vici/openttd/trunk]> svn merge -q -r4427:4969 svn:// .
16:39:39  <Celestar> vici@rivendell:[/home/vici/openttd/trunk]> svn st | grep ^C | wc -l
16:39:42  <Celestar> 16
16:40:12  <Celestar> this is bad
16:40:27  <peter1138> :)
16:40:35  <peter1138> have fun
16:41:46  <Celestar> very bad :S
16:43:34  <KUDr> Celestar: this is why i do it more often
16:43:48  <Celestar> KUDr: no no. I mean the merge :)
16:43:49  <Celestar> THE merge
16:43:51  <Celestar> not syncing
16:43:56  <KUDr> aha
16:44:06  <KUDr> merge with what?
16:44:10  <peter1138> trunk!
16:44:19  <KUDr> hmm
16:44:27  <KUDr> and what is the difference
16:44:41  <KUDr> i do merge trunk into yapf as syncing
16:44:52  <peter1138> other way
16:44:53  <Celestar> well, its 500 revisions ....
16:45:02  <peter1138> it's merging *into* trunk
16:45:03  <KUDr> ah
16:45:20  <KUDr> so 500 bridge revisions into current trunk?
16:45:31  <Celestar> well it's an attempt
16:45:46  <KUDr> but result will be the same or not?
16:45:50  <Celestar> yes
16:46:02  <Celestar> revision 4427 was a mistake :S
16:46:06  <KUDr> so why to do it so?
16:46:18  <Celestar> because you need to COPY then ADD
16:46:38  * Sacro is confused
16:46:44  * KUDr too
16:47:15  <KUDr> Celestar: do you want to tell me that i will need to do the same with yapf?
16:47:22  <Celestar> KUDr: lets see
16:48:13  <KUDr> i would do the (copy + add) from yapf to trunk
16:48:19  <Celestar> KUDr: I think there is much less of a problem ...
16:48:29  <Celestar> because you did the copy properly
16:48:47  <Celestar> as opposed to Tron
16:48:58  <KUDr> i had also many conflicts in the past (while syncing)
16:49:07  <Celestar> KUDr: can you sync with trunk now?
16:49:16  <KUDr> can try it
16:49:17  <Celestar> then I'll try
16:49:25  <peter1138> tron didn't do the copy properly?
16:49:28  <Celestar> no I mean first trunk => yapf
16:49:34  <Celestar> peter1138: it appears not so
16:49:45  <KUDr> this is what i did rercently
16:50:03  <Celestar> KUDr: please do it now again, much easier to try merging ...
16:50:15  <KUDr> ok
16:50:23  <Celestar> peter1138: he just commited is local working copy :S
16:50:27  <Sacro> oooh, you merging YAPF and bridges now? or just testing?
16:50:35  <Celestar> Sacro: test first.
16:50:41  <Celestar> see what conflicts there are
16:50:49  <Celestar> a merge is not like pressing a button or two
16:50:50  <Sacro> Celestar: and if there are none? does it stick?
16:51:10  <Sacro> Celestar: yeah i know, im helping a friend merge some php stuff :S
16:51:27  <Celestar> Sacro: bridge makes about 100 conflicts ...
16:51:48  <Sacro> Celestar: ouch, thats gonna take some sorting
16:51:52  <Celestar> yes
16:51:58  * Celestar punches Tron
16:52:23  <peter1138> i don't think that'll make any different
16:52:26  <peter1138> -t+ce
16:52:49  <CIA-3> KUDr * r4970 /branch/yapf/vehicle.c: Sync with trunk (4965:4967)
16:53:02  <Celestar> peter1138: it does
16:53:11  <Celestar> peter1138: because a critical diff is missing in the database
16:53:26  <Celestar> peter1138: maybe I can trick it somehow
16:53:35  <peter1138> hmm
16:53:57  <KUDr> Celestar: vehicle.c was the only one
16:53:58  <Celestar> I have an idea
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16:55:12  <Celestar> merging
16:55:29  <KUDr> yapf->bridge?
16:55:39  <Celestar> yapf->trunk
16:55:44  <KUDr> aha
16:55:46  <Celestar> at least looking how many conflicts
16:56:14  <Sacro> hmmm, a->b->c = a->c->b ?
16:56:20  <KUDr> yapf->trunk doesn't need to be merged - it needs just copy/add or am i wrong?
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16:57:25  <Celestar> it should be merged
16:57:41  <KUDr> what is the difference if result is the same?
16:57:46  <Celestar> but conflicts are minimal
16:58:01  <Celestar> very minimal
16:58:22  <Celestar> should be < 15 minutes merge work
16:58:23  <KUDr> i would delete all .svd directories from yapf and copy it all over trunk
16:58:45  <KUDr> .svn
16:58:47  <blathijs> KUDr: you should use svn export if you don't want svn dirs
16:59:00  <KUDr> blathijs: yes - the same
16:59:12  <blathijs> KUDr: yet merging should be flawless if the branch is up to date and works better with added files
16:59:13  <Celestar> you shouldn't copy
16:59:20  <Celestar> always merge
16:59:20  *** CmdKewin [n=cmdkewin@] has quit ["( :: NoNameScript 4.03 :: )"]
16:59:46  <KUDr> Celestar: you merge it locally - so the result n the server is the same
16:59:54  <Celestar> KUDr: yes, but there are conflicts
17:00:03  <Celestar> places that you'd just override in a copy
17:00:07  <Celestar> which isn't so good
17:00:18  <KUDr> Celestar: but if you copy/add you have no conflicts
17:00:30  <KUDr> nono
17:00:47  <KUDr> the wanted result is that new trunk == yapf
17:01:09  <KUDr> so no need to do merge
17:01:21  <Celestar> NO
17:01:23  <Celestar> its not
17:01:27  <Celestar> for example, savegame revisions
17:01:56  <KUDr> what revisions? If yapf is up to date it MUST be the same
17:02:10  <Celestar> errp
17:02:57  <Celestar> you change savegame revisions in yapf different from savegame revisions in trunk
17:03:07  <Celestar> ALL games that have been created in trunk need to be loadable
17:03:46  <Celestar> as yapf changed the savegame revision
17:03:52  <KUDr> if rev in trunk is 28 and in yapf too, merging will not increase it to 29
17:03:58  <Celestar> it needs to
17:04:21  <KUDr> this you must do manually after the merge or copy/add
17:04:30  <Celestar> this you must do during the merge
17:04:46  <Celestar> before the commit
17:04:52  <KUDr> sorry, i don't see difference
17:05:01  <KUDr> yes before commit
17:05:06  <Celestar> because if you copy, you'll forget it
17:05:10  <KUDr> after copy
17:05:11  <Celestar> trust me ...
17:05:13  <Celestar> ;)
17:05:42  <Celestar> it's much better if you SEE where the problems are..
17:06:07  <KUDr> aha, yes it is possible but i don't want to solve the old conflicts again and introduce new bugs by making mistake
17:06:35  <KUDr> because i already solved and tested them
17:07:02  <Celestar> then let me do the merge at time, k? ;)
17:07:23  <KUDr> you can do whatever you like
17:07:35  <KUDr> you are dev
17:07:44  <Celestar> you are too
17:07:48  <KUDr> no
17:07:56  <KUDr> i am external consultant
17:08:00  <Brianetta>
17:08:02  <Celestar> but from personal experience, merging causes much less problem then just copy
17:08:14  <Celestar> I might be mistaken ...
17:08:34  <KUDr> ok, i always copied it (at work)
17:08:46  <Celestar> just get the savegame revisions right
17:08:53  <Celestar> (saveload.c and openttd.c)
17:09:04  <Celestar> there aren't any other problematic conflicts anyway
17:09:16  <KUDr> aha
17:09:17  <Celestar> so it makes little difference
17:09:20  <KUDr> then ok
17:09:47  <Celestar> quite opposite to bridge branch
17:10:00  <KUDr> really?
17:10:04  <Celestar> yes.
17:10:10  <Celestar> because Tron created the bridge wrongly
17:10:12  <KUDr> ah, yes, yapf is relatively separate
17:10:25  <Celestar> our gcc bug report causes some headache to the gcc developers ;)
17:10:37  <peter1138> which gcc bug report?
17:10:44  <Celestar> peter1138: the warning in player_gui.c
17:10:49  <peter1138> oh, that got reported?
17:10:49  <peter1138> hmm
17:11:00  <Celestar> I filed it
17:11:22  <Celestar> targeted for 4.0.4
17:11:32  <KUDr> Celestar: if you will have merged yapf->trunk you can commit it
17:11:48  <Celestar> me->food();
17:11:53  <Celestar> a bit later
17:12:00  <KUDr> enjoy
17:12:03  <Celestar> mom's already yelled 3 times ;)
17:13:33  <Bjarni> make her yell 7 times
17:13:39  <Bjarni> 7 is a magic number ;)
17:13:45  <Sacro> egh, gnome-volume-manager died, and took out gaim
17:15:19  *** brygge_2 [n=joachim9@] has joined #openttd
17:15:47  <Bjarni> it's more fun if it max out volume even when you think you muted the computer
17:15:55  <Bjarni> I tried that once >_<
17:16:04  <Bjarni> at school
17:18:06  <Bjarni> the issue is not that it started to make sounds, it was more that I could not stop it
17:18:54  *** ProfFrink [] has joined #openttd
17:19:00  <peter1138> good job you weren't watching hardcore pornography, eh?
17:19:40  *** Angst [] has joined #openttd
17:22:21  <Bjarni> yeah
17:22:52  <peter1138> << we need explicit foundations!
17:23:00  *** sw4y [] has quit ["Odletam do paralelniho vesmiru..."]
17:23:26  <Bjarni> but I think it was stupid to sit at school and watch porn
17:24:03  <Sacro> i dunno, we found it something to do
17:24:40  <Bjarni> you watched porn and dropped out. I did neither of those
17:24:40  <Bjarni> go figure
17:25:24  <XeryusTC> that sounds a big harsh somehow...
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17:25:45  <Bjarni> yeah
17:25:49  <Bjarni> but I saw the same thing
17:26:26  <Bjarni> I noticed that most of the dropouts watched porn at school, while those, who didn't drop out didn't do it at all or very little
17:27:37  <Bjarni> actually watching porn is not the brightest idea in the world
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17:28:48  <XeryusTC> heh, i had a teacher that used kept getting porn popups when we were in a computer room once
17:29:56  <hylje> :>
17:30:05  <Sacro> lol
17:31:14  <XeryusTC> actually, almost everybody knew that there were those kind of popups on that computer except from some teachers
17:31:35  <Bjarni> at one time, somebody printed a lot of pics of naked women in the computer room and placed those prints in the paper tray, so the next people, who wanted to print got a background pic they didn't expect
17:31:44  <XeryusTC> so we were making quite some fun out of it :)
17:31:49  <Bjarni> the school never figured out who did it
17:32:04  <XeryusTC> rofl
17:33:56  <Bjarni> later I saw something like that as candid camera on TV. Some public copy machine (you know, one of those with a coin slot) had the toner removed and naked women on the papers, so nomatter what people placed in it, they got boobs on the copy
17:34:29  <Bjarni> and they had actors nearby, that gave those looks at the people, who used the machine
17:34:32  <hylje> :o
17:34:42  <hylje> and that O RLY printer virus ?
17:35:23  <Bjarni> image wanting to take a copy of some paper and the copy only contains a naked woman and everybody around you just gives you looks like you are a pervert or something
17:35:44  <XeryusTC> lol
17:35:54  <Sacro> anyone tell me how to make GNOME open a .html file in firefox by default?
17:35:54  <XeryusTC> it wouldn't be nice to be the target of that though
17:37:28  <Brianetta> later peple
17:37:40  <Bjarni> candid camera can be so funny
17:38:31  <Sacro> yup it can
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17:45:44  <CIA-3> miham * r4971 /trunk/lang/ (dutch.txt slovak.txt):
17:45:44  <CIA-3> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-05-24 19:45:32
17:45:44  <CIA-3> dutch - 1 fixed by webfreakz (1)
17:45:44  <CIA-3> slovak - 57 fixed, 2 changed by miro-boss (59)
17:47:25  <Celestar> back
17:47:37  <Celestar> Darkvater: you anywhere near?
17:48:08  <brygge_2> Celestar: do you plan to implement signals on bridges in the bridge branch?
17:48:16  <Celestar> brygge_2: later on.
17:48:29  <Celestar> custombridgehead come first
17:48:35  <Celestar> crossing bridges
17:48:45  <hylje> bendy bridges !!
17:48:46  <Celestar> and I'm also working on real high bridges
17:48:58  <Celestar> so that you can go 2+ levels from ground level
17:49:06  <Celestar> or have bridge heads at different heights
17:49:09  <hylje> :o
17:49:32  <Celestar> we need some changes to the map first tho
17:49:36  <Celestar> minor stuff
17:49:43  <brygge_2> Celestar: thats really cool
17:49:55  <Celestar> not sure I can manage, but it SHOULD work
17:50:02  <Celestar> my concept is already finished.
17:50:17  <Celestar> but then KUDr and I are also working on new signalling ideas ...
17:50:23  <Celestar> and .. and .. and
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17:51:23  * Sacro cant wiat for new signals
17:51:36  <Celestar> well, there'll hopefully be less signal types
17:51:47  <Sacro> Celestar: will it be possible to have different signals from around the world
17:52:25  <Sacro> i want more signals, not less
17:52:41  <Celestar> you can, just add grfs to replace the existing ones
17:52:57  <Sacro> Celestar: can we at least have yellow signals
17:53:07  <Celestar> this is an idea
17:53:18  <Celestar> dunno whether it'll be yellow or not, but trains will slow down
17:53:51  <peter1138> mmm, i guess we'd need to break compatibility with newgrf signals
17:53:53  <Sacro> and then could have home and distant semaphores
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17:54:09  <Celestar> peter1138: I think so as well
17:54:37  <Sacro> well we cant always agree on everything
17:54:52  <peter1138> heh
17:54:58  <peter1138> there are a lot of signals
17:55:21  <Celestar> I'd rather have a proper signalling system (internally) then many many different signals
17:55:23  <peter1138> light, semaphore, normal, presignal, pbs, pbs+presignal
17:55:30  <peter1138> quite a lot already, heh
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17:55:48  <peter1138> ('cept our pbs never used the pbs+presignal ones)
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17:55:56  <Celestar> and KUDr and I will think of real PBS
17:56:10  <Celestar> not as in "path-based-signalling" but "pathfinding-based-signalling"
17:56:16  <peter1138> if PBS is done right, it shouldn't need extra signals
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17:56:31  <Celestar> peter1138: I have done some premliminary ideas, you read them?
17:56:37  <peter1138> the pdf?
17:56:42  <Celestar> yeah
17:56:46  <peter1138> yeah
17:56:50  <peter1138> and cursed that it's a damn pdf :P
17:57:03  <Celestar> you can have the Tex file if you prefer  :P
17:57:13  <peter1138> i'd prefer text :P
17:57:54  <Celestar> well I can do that if you wish :P
17:57:59  <Celestar> "Export to Text"
17:58:53  <Celestar> peter1138: PROPER signalling doesn't really need presignals
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17:59:18  <peter1138> indeed
18:00:00  <Celestar> and all the different sigtypes (with them being hard to distinguish) don't really add to gameplay
18:00:31  * Celestar thinks he should play a game
18:00:53  <Sacro> nope, i'd like to get rid of the current signalling system, research some real world ones and implement them
18:01:11  <Celestar> Sacro: i've done so
18:01:53  <Sacro> Celestar: i read your pdf when we where in #openttd.signals
18:01:57  <Celestar> Sacro: a good deal of this knowledge is in that pdf
18:02:13  <Sacro> Celestar: yeah, true
18:02:27  <Celestar> I'll improve it the coming days
18:02:34  <Celestar> anyone into a game with me using the bridge branch?
18:03:24  <KUDr> Celestar: and what about yapf merge?
18:03:59  <Celestar> KUDr: as soon as I have Darkvater's and peter1138's go, I'll merge. IF you promise that you help me with syncing bridges to make them work with yapf ;)
18:04:17  <KUDr> of course
18:04:20  <Celestar> good
18:04:40  <Celestar> Sacro: get your bridge branch a host a game :P
18:04:53  <Sacro> whats the svn command?
18:05:12  <Celestar> svn co svn://
18:05:16  <Sacro> s/\/trunk/\/bridge\/branch\/?
18:05:32  <Celestar> yes
18:05:39  <Celestar> (copy the datafiles)
18:05:51  <Prof_Frink> Sacro: why not just use different regexp delimiters?
18:06:03  *** tokai|3 [] has joined #openttd
18:06:06  <Sacro> Prof_Frink: a) i dont know how to, b) that looks pretty
18:06:22  <glx> Sacro: you can use what you want as delimiter
18:06:32  * Sacro doesnt know that
18:06:56  <Prof_Frink> so s|/trunk|/bridge/branch|
18:07:13  <glx> or s@/trunk@/bridge/branch@
18:07:23  <Celestar> and how do vim know that :P
18:07:26  <Prof_Frink> besides, your original one was broken
18:07:38  <Celestar> yes
18:07:39  <Prof_Frink> you escaped the last /
18:07:43  <Celestar> yes
18:07:44  <Sacro> yeah, i just noticed that
18:07:46  <Celestar> :P
18:08:06  * Celestar notices the AM2 processors actually available
18:08:08  <Sacro> openttd would compile so much quicker if it checked what language i use
18:08:23  <Celestar> you can only build 1 language afaik
18:09:16  * Celestar also noitces the some CPU costs 2500 EUR
18:09:35  <Sacro> gcc thinks...
18:09:49  <Celestar> it DOES?
18:09:49  <KUDr> p:\proj\svn\openttd\bridges\cur\pathfind.c(274) : error C2220: warning treated as error - no 'executable' file generated
18:09:49  <KUDr> p:\proj\svn\openttd\bridges\cur\pathfind.c(274) : warning C4700: local variable 'rd' used without having been initialized
18:10:00  <Celestar> lets see
18:10:37  <Celestar> oh
18:10:52  <Celestar> Sacro: standby there might be an update
18:11:03  * Sacro stands by for an update
18:11:46  <Sacro> dunno if your interested, but mine has compiled and linked fine
18:11:53  <Celestar> yes
18:12:02  <hylje>
18:12:24  <Sacro> hylje: in english?
18:12:29  <hylje> pictures talk
18:12:58  <hylje> anyway, 'ts a bird with a really light camera on its head
18:13:07  <CIA-3> celestar * r4972 /branch/bridge/pathfind.c: [bridge] -Fix bug in -r4952, used a wrong variable. Thanks KUDr for finding out
18:13:20  <Celestar> ok go ahead KUDr Sacro :)
18:13:40  <Sacro> svn again?
18:13:45  <Celestar> just "svn up"
18:13:55  <KUDr> linking
18:14:02  <Sacro> done :)
18:14:20  <Celestar> Sacro: then rebuild ;)
18:14:22  <Celestar> "make" ;)
18:14:26  <KUDr> where will be the server?
18:14:27  <Sacro> done that and linked
18:14:33  <Celestar> Sacro: can you host?
18:14:46  <Sacro> Celestar: depends if my mums pc likes that idea
18:14:52  <Celestar> (what newgrfs or none?)
18:15:06  <Celestar> I can host @ work PC if you prefer
18:15:08  <Celestar> (dedicated)
18:15:16  <KUDr> hmm. No experience with newgrfs
18:15:26  <Celestar> ok then none :)
18:15:30  <Sacro> i dont have any newgrfs under bridge branch
18:15:43  <KUDr> <Celestar> I can host @ work PC if you prefer <- good idea
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18:16:11  <Celestar> ok I will
18:16:18  * Celestar sshs to work
18:17:49  <Celestar> game commenced
18:17:55  <Celestar> on
18:18:15  <Sacro> Celestar: theres too many .'s
18:18:30  <KUDr> hmm VERSION MISMATCH
18:19:11  <Celestar> KUDr: ?
18:19:21  <Celestar> 4972
18:19:34  <KUDr> when i compile i have not proper version info
18:19:34  <Celestar> Sacro: well, it's my workstation ;)
18:19:44  <Celestar> override it somehow?
18:19:48  <KUDr> norev000
18:19:49  <Sacro> Celestar: lol
18:19:56  <KUDr> hmm, where?
18:20:03  <Celestar> good question
18:20:13  <Sacro> KUDr: make RELEASE=r4972
18:20:27  <Celestar> that's the make version
18:20:30  <Celestar> dunno about windows
18:20:31  <KUDr> i don't have make
18:20:40  <KUDr> ok, i found it
18:21:04  <KUDr> #define NOREV_STRING "r4972"
18:21:14  <Celestar> wait ... restart server
18:21:33  <Celestar> lets all play as one company?
18:22:30  <Bjarni> what goes on?
18:22:46  <Sacro> i see no server :(
18:22:56  <Sacro> Bjarni: same thing we do every night, try to take over the world
18:23:06  <Celestar> ok now
18:23:11  <KUDr> <Celestar> lets all play as one company? <- maybe - never tried coop
18:23:22  <Celestar> had to restart, too many AIs
18:23:41  <KUDr> ohh, there will be AIs?
18:23:46  <Celestar> no
18:23:51  <Celestar> it doesn't work that well
18:23:53  <Sacro> lol
18:23:59  <Celestar> ^^
18:24:09  <Sacro> 1 company? or 3?
18:24:10  <Celestar> Bjarni: we're doing a coop game of the bridge branch to test
18:24:15  <Celestar> Sacro: I'd say 1
18:24:17  <Bjarni> ahh
18:24:29  <KUDr> Bjarni: join
18:24:32  <Bjarni> <Sacro>	Bjarni: same thing we do every night, try to take over the world <-- hi pinky
18:24:52  <Bjarni> which revision?
18:24:55  <Celestar> Bjarni: comon join us .. ;)
18:25:01  <Celestar> 4972
18:25:03  <Sacro> Bjarni: didnt think you'd have seen that
18:25:06  <Celestar> branch/bridge/
18:25:20  <Celestar> we are trying to usurp world dominace
18:25:36  <Bjarni> newest revision?
18:25:39  <Celestar> yes
18:25:43  <Bjarni> good
18:25:52  <Celestar> with dediserver
18:26:13  <MiHaMiX> LOL
18:26:26  <MiHaMiX> sign on condom machine: for refund, insert baby here
18:26:31  <Celestar> haha
18:26:37  <Bjarni> lol
18:26:56  <Sacro> MiHaMiX: hehehe, something to do next time im in the pub
18:27:18  <Bjarni> you got condom machines in the pubs?
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18:27:22  <MiHaMiX> Sacro: lol :)
18:28:19  <Bjarni> well, it have to be the condom machine.... Sacro and baby making.... that would be rape
18:29:18  <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: you mean, Sacro would rape the condom machine? :D
18:31:18  <Bjarni> no, but it's certainly possible
18:31:27  <Bjarni> hey, where is the server?
18:31:34  <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: which?
18:31:47  <Bjarni> the OTTD server I was told to join
18:32:03  <Bjarni> all the servers in the list got a red dot, so it's not there
18:32:04  <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: err.. I don't have the slightest idea :(
18:32:21  <Bjarni> ahh, found it
18:32:33  <Bjarni> scroll back if you need something and people left ;)
18:34:34  <MiHaMiX> ahh.. sorry, but I'm more concerned about how to handle keyboard events in non-editable XHTML objects using DOM
18:36:28  <Bjarni> dbg: [iconv] Conversion from codeset 'ISO-8859-15' to 'UTF-8-MAC' unsupported
18:36:44  <Celestar> ah?
18:36:49  <KUDr> hmm
18:37:11  <Bjarni> I think that's totally unrelated to the bridge branch though
18:37:13  <Sacro> hmmmm
18:37:44  <Bjarni> I get that one each time it tries to autosave
18:37:55  <Bjarni> but it saves anyway
18:41:14  <peter1138> 19:08 < Sacro> openttd would compile so much quicker if it checked what language i use
18:41:17  <peter1138> ^ what?/
18:42:37  <Celestar> how do I change a patch setting during run time?
18:43:09  <Bjarni> I don't know
18:44:30  <peter1138> use the gui? :p
18:44:35  <Celestar> on a dediserver?
18:44:42  <peter1138> then "patch foo bar"
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18:45:05  <Sacro> peter1138: im english, so i only need english.lng
18:45:28  <Bjarni> it takes virtually no time to compile all the lng files, so who cares?
18:45:33  <Bjarni> (besides you)
18:45:57  <Celestar> patch realistic_acceleration 1
18:45:58  <Celestar> 'realistic_acceleration' changed to:  off
18:46:28  <KUDr> hmm
18:46:32  <KUDr> off?
18:46:46  <peter1138> Sacro: uh, yeah, the lang files takes about 3 seconds compared to minutes for the rest, for me
18:47:10  <Celestar> 1 != off :S
18:48:08  <Sacro> peter1138: oh well
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18:59:04  <Celestar> hm
18:59:09  <Celestar> didn't have that bug before
18:59:17  <Celestar> maybe it was some merge :(
18:59:19  <KUDr> with that signal?
18:59:28  <Celestar> yes
19:00:14  <KUDr> crazy
19:00:42  <Celestar> shall we go on, or should I try to repair that first? ;)
19:01:05  <KUDr> save/repair/continue
19:02:21  <Celestar> lol
19:02:27  <Celestar> I have a savegame
19:02:39  *** egladil [] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
19:04:06  <KUDr> so updating signals doesn't pass thru bridge
19:04:38  <Celestar> nope
19:04:42  <SpComb> quakenet died?
19:04:43  <Celestar> debugging
19:04:52  *** Angst [] has quit ["weg"]
19:05:34  <Darkvater> &yawn&
19:05:35  <Darkvater> hmm
19:05:40  <Darkvater> s/*/&/g
19:05:58  <peter1138> indeed
19:06:19  <hylje> i concur
19:06:28  <Celestar> hey Darkvater
19:06:47  <peter1138> wow, this is evil
19:06:55  <Celestar> what is?
19:06:56  <Darkvater> you guys should really learn how to use svn ;)
19:06:57  * Darkvater hides
19:07:01  <Celestar> Darkvater: ?
19:07:21  <Darkvater> god fucking ms office
19:07:26  <Darkvater> can't even open oo-files
19:07:39  <peter1138> Celestar: this callback 1D modification i'm doing
19:07:45  <Celestar> peter1138: I see
19:07:49  *** Scia [] has joined #openttd
19:07:51  <peter1138> ttdp only lets you attach wagons to a train one at a time
19:08:02  <peter1138> so i have to check each wagon individually
19:08:19  <Celestar> ah
19:08:30  <Darkvater> Celestar: about you guys wanting copy&move instead of merge
19:08:37  <Darkvater> or whatever the discusion was about
19:08:37  <Celestar> KUDr: found the problem.
19:08:45  <Celestar> Darkvater: 1) I don't want to do that
19:08:46  <KUDr> good time
19:08:54  <peter1138> this involves actually attaching the wagons temporarily
19:09:02  <Celestar> Darkvater: 2) Tron fucked up the creation of the bridge branch
19:09:49  <Celestar> KUDr: r4900 is the problem
19:09:50  <Celestar> :(
19:10:04  <KUDr> hmm
19:10:07  <Celestar> it fixes one problem but causes another
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19:10:43  <Darkvater> Celestar: what'd he do?
19:10:51  <Celestar> Darkvater: he didn't svn cp
19:10:57  <Darkvater> Celestar: what'd he do?
19:11:00  <Celestar> Darkvater: but just commit his local working copy
19:11:10  <Darkvater> *sad*
19:11:17  <Darkvater> :(
19:11:26  <Celestar> but I can somehow override it
19:11:31  <Darkvater> and you can't merge now?
19:11:41  <Celestar> well with some tricks ...
19:12:02  <Darkvater> what you can do is just copy all the source files over to a trunk checkout which will create a big diff :)
19:12:07  <Darkvater> ugly, but works
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19:12:19  <Celestar> Darkvater: yeah I know
19:12:24  <Celestar> Darkvater: but first r4900
19:12:25  <Darkvater> Only do it if brdige/ is totally up-to-date though
19:12:40  <Darkvater> don't forget to _delete_ the bridge branch after you are done
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19:12:46  <Darkvater> we should do the same to the network branch
19:12:50  <Celestar> Darkvater: yes, and create a new one ...
19:12:58  <Celestar> Darkvater: why delete the network brnahc?
19:13:02  <Celestar> branch*
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19:14:08  <Celestar> Darkvater: it works with a track, merge from one version BEFORE the creation of the branch
19:14:14  <Celestar> trick*
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19:15:13  <Celestar> I don't fully get the problem
19:15:17  * Celestar goes trying something
19:15:45  <peter1138> branch/bridge (copied from trunk)
19:16:08  <peter1138> looks like a copy to me
19:16:10  <KUDr> Darkvater: why delete the branch after join? It would cause the lost of history or not?
19:16:16  <Celestar> peter1138: but not an unmodified one ...
19:16:36  <peter1138> Celestar: ah, i see
19:16:43  <peter1138> it's a copy *and* his original changes
19:16:49  <Celestar> that's the problem
19:16:58  <Celestar> but as a said, merge from one revision below
19:17:08  <peter1138> branch/bridge/BUGS
19:17:09  <peter1138> r4150	r4427
19:17:16  <peter1138> o_O
19:17:28  <peter1138> hmm
19:17:30  <peter1138> nvm
19:17:45  <peter1138> i'm still not entirely sure what difference it's supposed to make
19:17:56  *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-87-102-35-187.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
19:18:27  <peter1138> hmm
19:18:29  *** Mizipzor [] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
19:18:36  <peter1138> right, now i can't attach freight wagons to an ice-3
19:18:39  <peter1138> this is good
19:19:29  <Celestar> good peter1138
19:20:29  <Sacro> have a biscuit
19:21:12  <peter1138> but it's... damn. ugly.
19:21:12  <Celestar> I need help with SignalVehicleCheck
19:21:17  * valhallasw notes #openttd stalled at 11:00 and tries /scroll end
19:21:18  *** Aankh|Clone [n=pockled@] has quit [Success]
19:22:05  <peter1138>
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19:26:34  <Celestar> KUDr: do you have any idea about that bug?
19:27:37  <Celestar> BAAH
19:27:51  <Celestar> something is wrong with 1) gdb's thread handling or 2) openttds saving
19:29:12  <KUDr> hmm
19:29:22  <Belugas> peter1138 :  Pseudo code ... Pffffff
19:29:33  <KUDr> which bug (bridge/signal)?
19:29:41  <glx> Celestar: GetOtherBridgeEnd() maybe
19:30:44  <glx> it uses GetBridgeRampDirection(), but I'm not sure SignalVehicleCheck() is on a bridge ramp when it calls GetOtherBridgeEnd()
19:32:13  <Darkvater> Celestar: gdb. it works here
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19:33:21  <Bjarni> guys, I just noticed that all of you left :(
19:33:33  <Bjarni> I built a huge rail empire and you just left
19:33:45  <Celestar> WTF=!
19:33:50  <peter1138> we left?
19:33:52  <Darkvater> KUDr: you don't lose any history whatsoever. The branch is only not visible in HEAD.
19:33:53  <Celestar> KUDr: maybe I have it
19:33:53  <peter1138> Belugas: :D
19:34:02  <KUDr> Bjarni: it disconnected me
19:34:12  <Darkvater> KUDr: remember: with SVN and CVS as well you can never delete anything unrecoverably
19:34:21  <Celestar> or not ...
19:34:21  <Darkvater> (let's forget hacking at the source database for a minute)
19:34:34  <KUDr> Darkvater: aha, then good
19:34:40  <Darkvater>
19:34:47  <Darkvater> see there for example
19:36:47  <KUDr> thanks
19:39:30  <Celestar> back in a few
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19:40:08  <Celestar> trying to find that bug
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19:47:41  <Bjarni> ok, I left the server as well
19:47:55  <Bjarni> it became too annoying to start all the trains near the bridges all the time
19:48:01  <Bjarni> I ended up doing nothing else :(
19:50:22  <Celestar> hehe
19:50:41  <Celestar> I'm already working on it .. so wait
19:51:03  <Bjarni> apart from that, the railroads ended up getting interconnected and I sent 20 unit trains from one end to the other (with full load)
19:51:38  <Celestar> hehe
19:51:54  <Celestar> any anomylies apart from the bridge-signal thingy?
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19:52:43  <Bjarni> one train had problems finding it's route, but it didn't even have bridges o_O
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19:53:54  <Bjarni> but apart from the lack up update of signal blocks across bridges, the bridges appeared to work rather well
19:54:29  <Bjarni> I had a station with limited room for access, so I build a bridge over the access track in the same direction, so trains queued up in two layers
19:54:34  <Bjarni> that worked rather well
19:54:50  <Bjarni> the lower layer had signals, that I placed after the bridge was build and they worked
19:55:10  <Bjarni> I think the bridge even had a train on it when I build them
19:55:44  <Bjarni> now that will need some thinking on how to take advantage of such options
19:57:47  <Sionide> Bjarni, got a screenshot of that?
20:00:22  <Bjarni> no, but I can make one from autosave
20:00:27  <Bjarni> one moment
20:03:46  <Bjarni> Sionide:
20:04:28  <hylje> :o
20:04:36  <Sionide> aaaaawwwesome
20:05:09  <hylje> what next? truly free-form signal positions?
20:05:57  <Bjarni> under that bridge is: two turns, one switch and two signals
20:06:10  <Celestar> KUDr: I can't find the bug :(
20:06:19  <KUDr> hmm
20:06:20  <Bjarni> NNNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!
20:06:28  <KUDr> i will try it
20:06:38  <Celestar> KUDr: revision 4900 has something to do with it
20:06:57  <KUDr> i will try to make minimal case
20:07:02  <KUDr> and trace it
20:07:14  <Celestar> I have a minimal case
20:07:15  <Celestar> wait
20:07:59  <hylje> shouldnt portage get a newer stable openttd anytime soon
20:08:54  <Celestar> KUDr:
20:09:03  <Celestar> KUDr: and have a look at 4900
20:09:03  <KUDr> ok
20:09:08  <Celestar> it is somewhere there methinks
20:09:29  <Celestar> (I got some stuff to do, if you find anything just drop it by private message)
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20:10:02  <KUDr> ok
20:10:32  * Celestar goes testing his new server
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20:11:29  <Celestar> nite peops :)
20:11:53  <Bjarni> wow, it's night already
20:11:59  <Bjarni> night Celestar
20:12:10  <KUDr> gn
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20:16:45  <Belugas> lies, there is still a bright sunshine here
20:17:25  <Bjarni> see
20:17:36  <Bjarni> Celestar got a weird internal clock :P
20:20:48  <Belugas> I did not said that :)
20:21:41  <Bjarni> still, that's what you meant
20:22:13  <Belugas> No mister, simply that the sun was shining here :)
20:22:14  <Belugas> Although I personally feel like going to bed myself o_O
20:22:41  <Belugas> I hate those days where the only thing you can do is real work...
20:23:16  <Bjarni> yeah, that sucks
20:23:26  <Bjarni> nobody do any real work anymore
20:23:33  <Bjarni> it's so old fashioned
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20:31:56  <KUDr> Celestar: pathfind.c: 275 Celestar: change it to: 			tile = tile_end;
20:32:16  <KUDr> and problem is solved
20:32:29  <Bjarni> \o/
20:32:38  <KUDr> was easy
20:32:58  <glx> KUDr knows everything in pathfind.c :)
20:33:05  <Bjarni> go ahead and commit it
20:33:17  <Bjarni> so I can use it :D
20:33:24  <KUDr> no, but this was eyebreaking
20:33:36  <KUDr> small typo
20:33:55  <KUDr> swapped left and right in assignment
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20:34:59  <Belugas_Gone> good night
20:35:10  <Sacro> night Belugas_Gone
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20:35:37  <Ibigoo> good evening
20:36:08  <Bjarni> KUDr: still waiting for your commit. You seem sure that it's the right thing to do, so it's worth committing
20:36:22  <Bjarni> hi Hitchcock... errr Ibigoo
20:36:29  <KUDr> I wait for Celestar
20:36:34  <KUDr> but...
20:36:42  <KUDr> he seems to be sleeping
20:36:43  <Bjarni> Celestar already said goodnight, so he might not return
20:36:49  <KUDr> aha
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20:38:50  <glx> KUDr: did you see the comment "// TODO doesn't work - WHAT doesn't work?" ?
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20:39:18  <Bjarni> nice comment
20:39:49  <KUDr> glx: don't understand
20:40:09  <KUDr> ahaaa!
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20:40:17  <KUDr> nice
20:40:52  <glx> and the typo was added in r 4952
20:40:56  <CIA-3> KUDr * r4973 /branch/bridge/pathfind.c: [bridge] -Fix: UpdateSignalsOnSegment() can't pass bridge
20:43:13  <Ibigoo> good night
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20:43:21  <Celestar> not yet sleeping
20:44:08  <Bjarni> it works
20:44:41  <glx> yeah now I can't crash trains on bridge
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20:44:59  <Bjarni> it didn't help the already jammed trains, but a force pass signal click fixed it and then it works for the next train, that arrives
20:46:10  <KUDr> yes - exactly as expected
20:46:59  <Celestar> glx: what about that comment?
20:47:35  <glx> the comment says it doesn't work, and that was true
20:47:59  <Celestar> well the comment is from before ;)
20:49:01  <Celestar> KUDr fixed the bridge bug, anyone in for another game? ;)
20:49:18  <KUDr> heh, can try
20:49:19  <glx> I could try but only if NPF is off
20:49:25  <Celestar> ok
20:49:45  <Celestar> game started @
20:49:52  <KUDr> we should merge yapf + bridge
20:49:55  <Celestar> yes
20:50:02  <Sacro> yes*2
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20:51:42  <valhalleia> yes**2 :p
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21:10:58  <Celestar> Darkvater: bug report 0.4.8 coming
21:14:02  <anboni> omg.. i have one two with 22000 people... and the only thing servicing that town is a train picking up oil from an oil well...
21:18:30  *** Jenkz [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:18:50  <anboni> and another omg... my savegame is seriously messed up
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21:22:25  <anboni> wow.. i think something broke in the most recent yapf trunk
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21:23:58  <KUDr> anboni: did you enter new bug report?
21:24:13  <anboni> not yet, still trying to figure out what's happening exactly :)
21:24:26  <KUDr> ok
21:26:02  <anboni> bingo
21:26:25  <anboni> KUDr: is it ok if i give you a savegame that'll exhibit a problem after a few minutes of it running with yapf enabled?
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21:27:00  <KUDr> perfect - attach it to the bug report please
21:27:06  <anboni> willdo
21:27:15  <KUDr> and brief description
21:27:23  <anboni> of course :)
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21:35:31  <Darkvater> Celestar: ?
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21:39:18  <Bjarni> celestar is playing
21:39:24  *** valhalleia [] has quit [Connection timed out]
21:39:25  <Bjarni> join the game and start to chat ;)
21:39:35  <Bjarni> otherwise he is unreachable
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21:40:25  <Celestar> Darkvater: branch/bridge is now playtested, AItested and MP-tested
21:41:00  <Sacro> brb
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21:41:45  <Bjarni> goodnight
21:41:47  *** Bjarni [] has quit ["Leaving"]
21:42:25  <Celestar> nite
21:42:30  <Celestar> whoops
21:42:30  *** [Shaman] [] has joined #openttd
21:42:33  <glx> night Celestar
21:43:02  <glx> or it was for Bjarni :)
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21:44:51  <Celestar> it was for Bjarni
21:44:57  <Celestar> we could stop the game and continue tomorrow?
21:45:00  <Celestar> (=
21:52:20  <glx> Celestar: it's not paused
21:52:44  <glx> :)
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21:54:24  <Sacro> need pause on no clients
21:54:42  <glx> Sacro: code it :)
21:54:53  <Sacro> glx: its already in trunk
21:55:56  <anboni> KUDr: report has been submitted. if you want me to test anything with a different build, shoot me a /msg
21:56:12  <KUDr> thanks
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22:00:54  <Celestar> WEEE
22:01:09  * Celestar has something nice here (hopefully)
22:01:58  <Celestar> does dediserver need SDL?
22:02:21  <glx> normally no
22:02:53  <Sacro> Celestar: didnt you go to bed?
22:03:03  <Celestar> not yet
22:03:46  <Celestar> bah crap
22:04:17  <Sacro> lol
22:08:23  <Celestar> something is wrong
22:08:42  <Celestar> it builds the languages.
22:08:49  <Celestar> but not the binary
22:09:08  <Celestar> I mean no error message or anything
22:09:13  <anboni> i had to do a 'make clean' on the yapf branch earlier to get 4973 to build
22:09:18  <anboni> although i did get an error
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22:10:17  <Celestar> I think our SunOS build is severly broken :P
22:10:28  <Magus_X> yo!
22:10:38  <Sacro> who runs SunOS?
22:10:40  <anboni> that's another option i guess :) i'm using linux (fc5)
22:10:44  <Sacro> hi Magus_X
22:10:46  <Magus_X> hi Sacro
22:10:57  <Celestar> Sacro: my test server does
22:10:58  <Sacro> <- linux (arch)
22:11:06  <Celestar> because of the lack of another OS that works
22:11:12  <Sacro> Celestar: ah right, ive never used it
22:11:18  <Magus_X> <- Knoppix
22:11:23  <Magus_X> <- and WINXP
22:11:27  <anboni> wow, you mean there's hardware out there that linux doesn't run on?:)
22:11:37  <Celestar> anboni: well, 2.6.16 boots
22:11:49  <Celestar> FreeBSD boots and installs 99%
22:11:55  <anboni> dohg
22:12:01  <Sacro> Celestar: what more do you want? a kernel, and openttd on top :)
22:12:12  <Celestar> Sacro: I'd at least need a compiler :P
22:12:23  <anboni> crosscompile :)
22:12:31  <Sacro> code in binary
22:12:47  <Celestar> what about just fixing the Makefile we HAVE? :P
22:13:04  <anboni> nah, that'd be too easy :)
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22:13:59  <Sacro> Celestar: well thats an idea
22:14:24  <rain```> hey
22:14:44  <Celestar> gaah
22:14:45  <rain```> is it true that a station's raw material facilities will 'grow' if your station rating in that product is between 60-75%?
22:14:54  <Celestar> it doesn't build any object files
22:14:56  <rain```> or is it "has a chance to grow"
22:15:27  <Celestar> Makefile.config isn't generated as well
22:15:40  <anboni> rain: i think there was a thread on that subject on the forums recently(ish)
22:16:09  <anboni> i kinda only remember the 60-75% part, not the details, but try a search, probably in general forum
22:16:21  <rain```> yeah I know but I was confused as to what they were actually using
22:16:28  <anboni> ah :)
22:16:30  <rain```> openttd out of the box or nightly build or some new patches or...
22:16:49  <anboni> cant help you there, i'm afraid
22:16:51  <rain```> and whether or not smooth economy option affects it etc
22:17:26  <rain```> i seem to have a habbit of turning industries into shithouses, they start at maybe 100 tons/month and after I'm done with them they hover between 32-48
22:17:36  <anboni> lol
22:17:56  <rain```> and i had one farm that managed to produce like 300 grain
22:17:58  <anboni> to be honest, i generaly enabled to cheat to set production levels manually
22:17:59  <rain```> but only 32 livestock...
22:18:04  <rain```> oooo
22:18:31  <anboni> my challenge is in building complex and efficient networks.. not getting service levels to exactly that target :)
22:18:42  <anboni> (or rather, it seems my challenge lately is to break yapf :) )
22:18:52  <rain```> ><
22:18:57  <rain```> is yapf in nightly build?
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22:19:07  <KUDr> anboni: it is good
22:19:08  <anboni> it's a seperate branch atm
22:19:25  <anboni> if you're running windows, there's a premade binary
22:19:32  <rain```> i am
22:19:32  <KUDr> anboni: you did good job
22:19:36  <anboni>
22:19:38  <rain```> ill have to check it out then :P
22:19:41  <Celestar> BAH
22:19:43  <anboni> KUDr: find anything already?
22:19:47  <glx> Celestar: indeed 'patch' is not intended to work with on or off only 0 or 1
22:19:55  <KUDr> not yet
22:19:57  <Celestar> thou shalt not forget critical files
22:20:44  <Celestar> generating DEPS
22:20:58  <glx> that's a good start
22:21:13  <Celestar> hm ...
22:21:18  <RichK67> hi
22:21:19  <Celestar> ifaddrs.h missing
22:24:14  <Celestar> BAH
22:24:15  <Celestar> BAD
22:24:42  <Celestar> well try this tomorrow again
22:24:45  <Celestar> good night
22:24:51  <RichK67> cya
22:24:52  <glx> night Celestar
22:24:58  <anboni> night celes
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22:25:04  <Celestar> have fun
22:25:08  <Sacro> night Celestar
22:28:06  <Magus_X> what's the diference
22:28:15  <Magus_X> of YAPF and default pF?
22:28:52  <anboni> from what i understand, yapf is a complete rewrite in C++ with main goal being to reduce cpu usage
22:28:53  <glx> Magus_X: there's actually 2 pf for trains : NTP and NPF
22:29:11  <Magus_X> what's the diference? in simple words?
22:29:13  <glx> NTP is CPU friendly but not accurate
22:29:28  <glx> NPF is accurate, but kill slow CPU
22:29:42  <Magus_X> h...
22:29:46  <Magus_X> hm...
22:29:52  <glx> YAPF is accurate and more CPU friendly than NPF
22:29:53  <anboni> and glx is a lot better at explaining these things than me :)
22:30:03  <KUDr> and YAPF is slow and inaccurate :)
22:30:09  <anboni> lol
22:30:11  <Magus_X> Hey, glx: interesting...
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22:31:12  <glx> KUDr: at leats with YAPF I can use my mouse (not the case with NPF if there's many trains :) )
22:31:40  <KUDr> glx: i am sorry for that mistake :)
22:32:14  <anboni> hmm... a bunch of trains i tossed in to work out the details of the previous yapf bug i found are blocking my mainline now, queued up for the station :/
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23:22:50  <Sacro__> hum, /me doesnt have subversion
23:23:51  <CIA-3> KUDr * r4974 /branch/yapf/yapf/yapf_costrail.hpp: [YAPF] Fix: FS#188 - trains lost when segments longer than 100 tiles. Introduced by r4961. (thanks anboni)
23:25:17  <Sacro__> KUDr: dont you sleep?
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23:26:08  <KUDr> Yes, i am sleeping already. Woak up with idea where the mistake could be and returned to PC
23:26:44  <KUDr> it was terrible error
23:27:00  <KUDr> f*cking mistake
23:27:32  <Sacro__> KUDr: log off :)
23:27:42  <KUDr> heh
23:29:06  <KUDr> closing bug
23:29:24  <KUDr> well, good night
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23:35:46  <Sacro__> night mate
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23:54:45  <XeryusTC> heya Sacro__

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