Log for #openttd on 24th August 2006:
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00:00:12  <Ammler_pfuus> gute nacht everyone
00:01:12  <Sacro> Ammler_pfuus: gute nacht
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00:18:58  <XeryusTC> Sacro: throw it out the window
00:19:33  <JohnUK89> Oh Noes...
00:19:34  <Sacro> XeryusTC: i wish that people would just use Firefox
00:19:50  <Sacro> wtf, cpan is using sendmail
00:20:10  <JohnUK89> Sacro, Opera FTW
00:20:58  <GoneWacko> Opera ftl
00:21:03  <JohnUK89> :P
00:21:18  <Sacro> not opera
00:21:21  <GoneWacko> Opera beats IE and it has some nice features, but it also does things in a way that I just can't live with
00:21:22  <Sacro> OSS all the way
00:21:41  <JohnUK89> I prefer Opera lol it renders better :P
00:25:49  <Sacro> hmm
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00:31:49  <Sacro> make scares me...
00:38:17  <Belugas_Gone> scares me make
00:38:22  <Belugas_Gone> heheh
00:38:33  <Belugas_Gone> not quite the same meaning ^_^
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00:48:35  <Sacro> $me -> bed();
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01:25:05  <CIA-2> belugas * r6082 /trunk/ (genworld_gui.c newgrf_cargo.h):
01:25:05  <CIA-2> -CodeChange : Remove the unneeded table/sprites.h include in newgrf_cargo.h.
01:25:05  <CIA-2> Set it in genworld_gui.c instead, as it is really needed
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02:05:31  <Belugas_Gone> nice... svn does not wqnt to commit
02:05:47  <Belugas_Gone> looks like i've somehow ruined my entries :S
02:18:40  <grimrc1> I've got gui_hide command working; I've made gui_spawn boolean variable - how do I make it default to on?  I don't see any other console variables given defaults
02:19:22  <grimrc1> they're VARDEFed, which is just extern usually I think
02:21:06  <grimrc1> I'm just going to try VARDEFing it on
02:23:39  <grimrc1> true even
02:24:08  <grimrc1> wow it's a bit of a buzz hacking openttd; first time
02:24:39  <Belugas_Gone> after a while, it tend to be a headache :S
02:24:57  <Belugas_Gone> going to bed
02:25:04  <grimrc1> gn
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03:20:44  <grimrc1> does UndrawMouseCursor() work?
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05:43:58  <MaulingMonkey> !seen Celestar
05:44:01  <_42_> MaulingMonkey, Celestar ( was last seen quitting #openttd 14 hours 43 minutes ago (23.08. 15:00) stating "Quit: Lost terminal" after spending 2 hours 1 minute there.
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07:11:59  <roboboy> hello
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07:13:43  <StarLite> celestar lost his terminal :P
07:14:12  <StarLite> how could you physically lose a terminal? ;)
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07:21:11  * lws1984 knows where his terminal is at all times
07:21:18  <lws1984> it's always in my computer!
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07:24:06  <flydu> where do I have to put the code from New airports patch
07:24:12  <flydu> ?
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07:26:31  <flydu> help?
07:28:48  <MaulingMonkey> wouldn't it be a .patch/.diff file?
07:29:26  <MaulingMonkey> If that's what you're refering to, one of the wonderful forum stickies covers this very topic.
07:29:29  <MaulingMonkey>
07:29:29  <flydu> patch
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07:30:27  <blathijs> 09:14 < StarLite> how could you physically lose a terminal? ;) <-- That's the consequence of using 'virtual terminals' ;-)
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07:33:03  <MaulingMonkey> Well, if you're hunting around in a dump or something, maybe you lost track of where you put that old monochrome terminal that you wern't really sure if you wanted to trash.
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07:48:07  <StarLite> reminds me of a quote on
07:48:07  <StarLite> <erno> hm. I've lost a machine.. literally _lost_. it responds to ping, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my apartment it is.
07:48:16  <roboboy> hello
07:48:22  <donas> vhere should I put a file with an ending .patch
07:48:55  <StarLite> use svn to merge the code to the source and compile it
07:49:09  * roboboy homework
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07:49:26  <donas> what is svn?
07:49:35  <StarLite> subversion
07:49:45  <donas> a programm?
07:50:01  <StarLite> do you know how to compile openttd?
07:50:15  <donas> no
07:50:30  <StarLite> better ask someone to do it for you then, I guess ;)
07:50:44  <donas> maybe in tt-forums is the topic about this?
07:50:47  <StarLite> or google for subversion & merge
07:50:54  <StarLite> buy visual studio [granted you work under windows]
07:51:03  <Tron> StarLite: it's not svn merge's job to eat diffs
07:51:05  <StarLite> and compile :)
07:51:25  <StarLite> hmzz, I thought svn could merge
07:51:42  <Tron> svn merge does not process diffs
07:51:46  <StarLite> ah
07:52:06  <donas> that means that I could finaly get those extra airports in my game
07:52:12  <Tron> it merges stuff _within_ a repo, read the book if you are interested in more details
07:54:48  <Maedhros> is anyone familiar with table/town_land.h? specifically, what does _house_more_flags do that _housetype_extra_flags doesn't, or vice-versa?
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07:56:23  <Tron> grep for these in town_cmd.c
07:57:05  <Maedhros> i have - and as far as i can tell, _house_more_flags describes the size of the building, but that's also described by _housetype_extra_flags
07:57:32  <Maedhros> they just use different bits to do it
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08:00:13  <blathijs> StarLite: In particular, you don't merge a diff or a patch, you _apply_ it
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08:19:34  <CIA-2> miham * r6083 /trunk/lang/ (german.txt slovak.txt turkish.txt):
08:19:34  <CIA-2> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-08-24 10:19:06
08:19:34  <CIA-2> german - 3 fixed, 1 changed by chu (4)
08:19:34  <CIA-2> slovak - 82 fixed, 2 changed by lengyel (84)
08:19:34  <CIA-2> turkish - 3 fixed by jnmbk (3)
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08:34:15  <MeusH> hello
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09:00:47  <Osai> !stats
09:00:48  <_42_> Osai:
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09:54:45  <scia> hmm
09:54:56  <scia> my exit signals have turned into busses...
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09:57:12  <Bjarni> heh
09:57:15  <Bjarni> screenshot?
09:57:42  <scia> I'm preparing one
09:57:53  <Bjarni> I have heard about missing (green) signals, but that they turned into busses and drove away... I never knew that before
10:00:38  *** Eddi|zuHause3 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
10:01:20  <Jucciz> "my signals turned into busses and drove away" lol :DDDDD
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10:01:26  <scia>
10:01:29  <scia> there it is
10:02:34  <scia> they change direction when another signals stat comes :p
10:02:42  <Faux> Hehheheehe.
10:03:31  <scia> but they don't drive away :(
10:03:44  <Bjarni> looks like something went wrong in the sprite table
10:03:54  <Bjarni> when loading some newgrf files
10:04:11  <Bjarni> the busses took the spriteIDs from the signals or something like that
10:04:35  <Bjarni> nice set of busses btw :)
10:04:36  <Jucciz> or maybe the signals just got bored standing there for a long time
10:04:38  <scia> yes indeed
10:04:45  <scia> I restarted and it is alright
10:04:52  <scia> :)
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10:05:02  <scia> makes a nice screeny though :D
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10:11:37  <CIA-2> truelight * r6084 /trunk/yapf/unittest/unittest.dsp: -Fix r6073: if we removed MSVC6 support, then why is unittest.dsp still around...
10:13:29  <CIA-2> truelight * r6085 /branches/makefile_rewrite/ (8 files in 2 dirs):
10:13:29  <CIA-2> [MakefileRewrite] -Move: moved unittest project files
10:13:29  <CIA-2> -Remove: removed MSVC6 support
10:17:04  *** Ammler_working is now known as Ammler_eating
10:20:03  <CIA-2> rubidium * r6086 /trunk/ (os2.c unix.c win32.c): -Fix: InteractiveRandom was not seeded properly resulting in the dedicated server always generating the same map. Thanks to the #openttdcoop team for detecting.
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10:28:25  <Gonozal_VIII> [11:54:55] <scia> my exit signals have turned into busses... <-- had the same problem sometimes, save & load the game should fix it
10:28:49  <scia> indeed it did :)
10:29:34  <Gonozal_VIII> i had busses and planes for signals :-)
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10:49:30  <CIA-2> peter1138 * r6087 /branches/utf8/ (91 files in 12 dirs): [utf8] - Sync with r5802:r5900 from trunk
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10:52:26  <TrueLight> go peter1138, go peter1138
10:52:59  <Brianetta> Next commit is to fix all the merge bugs...
10:53:03  * Mucht|work claps his hands
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11:00:59  <Eddi|zuHause> scia, Gonozal_VIII: using the DBSet?
11:01:13  <scia> yes
11:01:34  <scia> and pikkabirds busset
11:01:51  <Eddi|zuHause> i suspect there is something wonky with loading the custom signals from the DBSet
11:02:15  <Eddi|zuHause> because i had something similar also a while back, but it was after applying a patch, so i though that caused it
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11:04:14  <Eddi|zuHause> next task would be: make it reproduceable
11:07:54  <scia> for me it was the first time it went wrong
11:08:09  <scia> and I already use it for a long time
11:08:23  <scia> so 1 in a 100 or so is not a big problem :p
11:08:49  <Eddi|zuHause> well... it might not be fatal, but it is still a bug ;)
11:09:10  <Eddi|zuHause> s/bug/unintentional feature
11:09:45  <scia> yes
11:09:56  <scia> but i have no idea how to reproduce it...
11:13:45  <CIA-2> truelight * r6088 /branches/makefile_rewrite/ (7 files in 3 dirs):
11:13:45  <CIA-2> [MakefileRewrite] -Add: added -s (source) and -d (destination) to strgen (Darkvater)
11:13:45  <CIA-2>  This allows you to run strgen from an other dir, without dirty tricks and hacks
11:13:45  <CIA-2> -Fix: changed Makefile stuff to reflect the above change. Much cleaner now ;)
11:13:45  <CIA-2>  Tnx a lot Darkvater for this great work :)
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11:17:38  <JohnUK89> Oh Noes...
11:18:15  <Sacro> que?
11:18:27  <JohnUK89> You're here :P
11:19:12  <Eddi|zuHause> this is getting old guys...
11:19:12  <Sacro> hmm
11:24:55  <JohnUK89> Yeah, it is
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12:08:31  <CIA-2> truelight * r6089 /trunk/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Backport r6088: added -s (source) and -d (destination) to strgen (Darkvater)
12:08:32  <TrueLight> someone needs to update the strgen MSVC project files
12:08:36  <TrueLight> adding string.c from the main dir to it
12:08:38  <TrueLight> I can't do that
12:09:16  <hylje> :o
12:12:12  <CIA-2> truelight * r6090 /branches/makefile_rewrite/ [MakefileRewrite] -Fix: language files should also go in objs/lang in order to hold infinite recompiles :)
12:13:00  * Mucht|work cancels his order of AMD64 5000+
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12:25:00  <OwenS> O.o why?
12:25:17  <OwenS> (Ping: Mucht|work)
12:25:36  <Mucht|work> re
12:25:51  <Mucht|work> because TrueLight optimizes the makefile ;-)
12:26:00  <TrueLight> :)
12:26:12  <OwenS> rofl
12:26:37  <OwenS> A dual core wouldn't help since GMake doesn't support parallel execution
12:26:51  <OwenS> You would need something like Sun DMake
12:27:53  <Patrick`> how does distcc work then?
12:28:01  <Patrick`> just tell it to use 2 threads on the same machine
12:28:07  <Patrick`> or am I confused
12:28:13  <OwenS> DistCC compiles the same file on more than one compuer doesn't it?
12:28:14  <TrueLight> OwenS: now that is something new.... I guess that I just then compile in a misterious way on a dualcode
12:28:21  <Patrick`> no.
12:28:25  <TrueLight> code = core
12:28:37  <Patrick`> distcc will paralellise compilation and farm out tasks to different machines
12:28:39  <OwenS> TrueLight: What do you mean?
12:28:40  <TrueLight> gmake support -j just fine
12:28:46  <TrueLight> which executes multiple commands at the same time
12:28:48  <OwenS> Really? :O
12:28:50  <Patrick`> soyou just do -j >= 2
12:28:58  <TrueLight> so before you talk, make sure you know your facts :)
12:29:06  * Mucht|work thinks about ordering an X2 3800
12:29:09  <OwenS> Ive never seen GMake be used that way
12:29:15  <TrueLight> OwenS: it is done _all_ the time
12:29:15  <Patrick`> distcc uses it that way.
12:29:22  <TrueLight> and for many years
12:29:30  <Brianetta> TrueLight: (the domain) is yours, isn't it?
12:29:31  <Patrick`> you just put the hostnames of your distcc servers in a file then do -j 7 or something
12:29:36  <TrueLight> Patrick`: systems with multiple CPUs too :)
12:29:52  <Patrick`> yeah, but ... those are only commerical recently
12:29:53  <TrueLight> Brianetta: yes.. in fact, the domain itself it owned by ludde
12:29:57  <TrueLight> but I host DNS and shit
12:30:02  <TrueLight> Patrick`: true ;)
12:30:08  <Patrick`> owned by people, not rich people
12:30:25  <TrueLight> OwenS: run in any source: gmake -j4
12:30:45  <TrueLight> you don't need distcc to see that it works.. just not lovely if you don't have more CPUs to send the request to (either distcc ones or local ones)
12:32:02  <Brianetta> TrueLight: We were hoping to negotiate for a subdomain (:
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12:45:03  <CIA-2> truelight * r6091 /branches/makefile_rewrite/projects/ (10 files): [MakefileRewrite] -Fix: adjusted MSVC 2003 and MSVC 2005 project files to work with this branch (Darkvater)
12:45:03  <TrueLight> someone around with MSVC 2003 or 2005?
12:45:08  <TrueLight> I have something to test :)
12:46:07  <CIA-2> truelight * r6092 /branches/makefile_rewrite/projects/ (5 files): [MakefileRewrite] -Add: added generate code for project files, based on source.list. Produces MSVC 2003 and MSVC 2005 project files
12:46:23  *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas
12:47:01  <Belugas> helo all
12:47:07  *** smeding [] has joined #openttd
12:49:55  <StarLite> (14:29:03) • Mucht|work thinks about ordering an X2 3800 « get a core2Duo , much faster :)
12:50:07  <Patrick`> bah
12:50:14  <Patrick`> core 2 duo can bite my shiny metal ass
12:50:16  <Mucht|work> StarLite: buying core 2 duo is like buying windows xp
12:50:22  <OwenS> Hehe
12:50:26  <StarLite> amd fan? ;)
12:50:29  <StarLite> or intel hater :P
12:50:29  <hylje> so.. pirate a core 2 due?
12:50:31  <hylje> duo*
12:50:33  <Patrick`> it might technicalld do the job, but you feel dirty.
12:50:37  <OwenS> hylje: ROFL
12:50:44  <Mucht|work> Intel is a company like Microsoft or H&M - why do you support this?
12:50:47  <StarLite> shiplift it ;)
12:50:51  <Bjarni> well, it depends on what you plan to do with it
12:50:52  <Patrick`> AMD is a company
12:51:01  <hylje> go to a shop dressed up as a pirate
12:51:03  <StarLite> Mucht|work, you know how big AMD is? :D
12:51:07  <hylje> or steal a chip from a ship
12:51:12  <Bjarni> a core duo is not the best choice if you plan on using singlethreaded apps
12:51:36  <OwenS> I would go for a fast single core any way over a pair of slow cores
12:51:39  <StarLite> you can hardly get single core top-of-the-line chips anymore Bjarni :P
12:51:42  <Mucht|work> StarLite: what has the size of a company to do with it?
12:51:51  <OwenS> It's a companies ethics
12:52:03  <StarLite> OwenS, I would if I could have gotten a 4,8Ghz chip for teh same prize :)
12:52:04  <Mucht|work> IBM is a hugeass company and a good example for positive company ethics
12:52:06  <StarLite> *price
12:52:14  <hylje> so.. buy POWER?
12:52:15  <OwenS> Personally, I do not condone Intels history (And probable continuial) of blackmail
12:52:16  <Patrick`> I thought intel's dual core chips used a shared L2
12:52:21  <Patrick`> which is an asstastically bad idea
12:52:26  <StarLite> nope Patrick`
12:52:26  <hylje> Patrick`: i think its 4MB per core
12:52:32  <Patrick`> bollocks it's 4
12:52:36  <Patrick`> that's itanium territory
12:52:36  <StarLite> 4 yeh
12:52:46  <hylje> well with the reasonable chips
12:52:54  <hylje> the cheapers dont have that but they dont count
12:52:58  <hylje> you buy amd if you want cheap
12:53:00  <Patrick`> is that megabytes or megabits?
12:53:04  <Patrick`> jesus
12:53:05  <StarLite> I was going to buy an X2, but the Core2Duo's are faster and cheaper.. so well :P
12:53:09  <StarLite> to hell wil company ethics
12:53:15  <StarLite> my wallet is more important to me :P
12:53:18  <Patrick`> that's actually as much L2 as a itanium
12:53:19  <OwenS> I wonder why people are insistant on sticking with x86? Heck, I view Apples moving to it a step backwards...
12:53:20  <hylje> company ethics != personal ethics
12:53:29  <hylje> Patrick`: itanium 2s have some 16MB of l2
12:53:43  <OwenS> 16MB? Their design must suck...
12:53:44  <Patrick`> according to wikipedia it's 2 megs of *share* l2
12:53:46  <Patrick`> and sharing is bad
12:53:50  <Patrick`> OwenS: absolutely
12:53:55  <Patrick`> OwenS: no out-of-order
12:54:01  <StarLite> not true for the core2duo Patrick`
12:54:02  <hylje> OwenS: because x86 is the most advanced thing we got right now
12:54:04  <Patrick`> so cache misses basically take several days to get over
12:54:12  <StarLite> E6600 has 2*2MB
12:54:24  <Patrick`> great, the L2 wars begin
12:54:24  <OwenS> hylje: I beleive SPARC, MIPS, PowerPC, POWER, Cell exist and are much more advanced
12:54:32  <Patrick`> how about we improve on the speeds of memory
12:54:41  <StarLite> nah, improve HD speeds
12:54:43  <hylje> OwenS: might have superior design but overall performance.. not really
12:54:54  <Bjarni> OwenS: the issue is that IBM got problems developing the PowerPC chips. Development of a chip is like a pipeline and IBM got a somewhat empty pipeline right now so sticking to them will be a slow choice next year
12:54:56  <StarLite> rather have a 5 times as fast HDD as 5 times as fsat ram atm
12:55:02  <Patrick`> there are 2 aspects to a technology. 1) how good it could theoretically become. 2) how good it is.
12:55:12  <Patrick`> x86 is shit on 1 but good on 2
12:55:19  <Patrick`> everything else is better on 1 but worse on 2
12:55:22  <Patrick`> so x86 wins otu
12:55:23  <OwenS> hylje: No, seriously, a SPARC preforms 2x the speed at 2x lower mHz and way lower power consumption
12:55:32  <Patrick`> arms are crazy as well
12:55:36  <Patrick`> 1 watt for the perf. of a P2
12:55:45  <OwenS> ARM? it's for embedded
12:55:45  <Bjarni> also the G5 got heat and power issues, hence no powerbook G5
12:55:54  <OwenS> True, G5 was a bit of a dead end
12:56:03  <OwenS> I wanna see what Freescale can do with their PowerPCs
12:56:23  <hylje> G5 is the P4 of IBM
12:56:25  <OwenS> Personally though, i'm backing SPARC as a good platform
12:56:42  <hylje> good platform yes
12:56:49  <StarLite> macs are lame anyways imho, but that is cus of their butt-ugly design and that mac O/S stuff.. I cannot get used to it..
12:56:52  <OwenS> hylje: Indeed. IBM should go back to the G4 and work off from there... Except... Freescale made the G4 XD
12:56:54  <hylje> but currently you cant get the better chip on design alone
12:57:11  <hylje> StarLite: butt-ugly.. most people call them stylish
12:57:26  <hylje> i for one think that most manufacturers could learn a thing or two from apple's design div
12:57:33  <OwenS> The only reason there hasnt been a migration to a new platform is because everyone has a back-assward insistance on backwards compatability
12:57:48  <hylje> *cough* companies with shitty codebases *cough*
12:57:51  <StarLite> hylje, yeah, most people do..
12:57:58  <Patrick`> so?
12:58:00  <StarLite> but the iPod.. c'mon .. how UGLY can you make a player...
12:58:06  <OwenS> Strangely enough, I like OSX' design but run my system with a CDE style  :P
12:58:06  <Patrick`> ARM is the perfect example of what technology can do
12:58:13  <Patrick`> ten years ago the P2 was cutting edge
12:58:29  <hylje> ipod? ugly? you havent seen any other comparable music players?
12:58:30  <Patrick`> in 10 years time whatever ARM mutates into will beat the pants off an X2
12:58:41  <StarLite> most of em are ugly yeh hylje
12:58:47  <StarLite> but I love my iAudio M3
12:59:12  <hylje> you cant be ugly with clear geometry and simple colors
12:59:23  <StarLite> you can hylje ..
12:59:25  <Patrick`> Bricks are ugly.
12:59:28  <StarLite> I think you can :P
12:59:30  <OwenS> I would like to see someone produce a way to make SPARCs able to on the fly in hardware at clockspeed convert x86 to SPARC instructions :P
12:59:30  <OwenS> You could run legacy x86 apps and SPARC apps side by side that way :P
12:59:30  <Bjarni> Apple got some nice design touches, like the iMacs. The power cable got a plastic plate on it, slightly angles so when you plug it in the rear of the computer, it will almost look like there is nothing plugged in, it's just a wire going into a plate. Looks nicer than a regular power cable
12:59:38  <Patrick`> not much clearer than a rectangle.
12:59:43  <Patrick`> and orange is pretty simple
12:59:45  <Bjarni> and still you can use regular power cables if you like
12:59:49  <Patrick`> OwenS: read up on transmeta
13:00:02  <Patrick`> 2 watts for P3 performance due to dynamic translation
13:00:07  <OwenS> Patrick`: Transmeta aren't targetting desktops, but I know they do something similar
13:00:16  <Patrick`> they're dead now :(
13:00:19  <OwenS> :(
13:00:21  <Patrick`> they had a laptop at one point
13:00:33  <StarLite> My M3L costs less then an iPod, has twice the features, has all accesories [docking station, remote, decent headphones, cables] included and run 30+ hours on 1 charge..
13:00:36  <StarLite> and I think it looks better
13:00:50  <StarLite> all acc. included in the rpice that ios
13:00:52  <StarLite> *is
13:00:53  <hylje> Patrick`: most bricks are not nice-looking, but there is nice-looking bricks -- smooth surface and a nice hue of orange
13:01:14  <Patrick`> ok, the monolith from 2001.
13:01:20  <Patrick`> simple black, perfect rectangle.
13:01:26  <hylje> 1:618 too?
13:01:29  <hylje> i mean
13:01:31  <Patrick`> nope
13:01:33  <hylje> 1:1.618
13:01:36  <Patrick`> 1:4:9
13:01:49  <Patrick`> anyway, the golden ratio is overrated
13:02:02  <hylje> propose a better ratio
13:02:49  <StarLite> the platinum ratio?
13:02:50  <StarLite> ;)