Log for #openttd on 1st September 2006:
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01:16:48  <grimrc1> is there a way to separate the 2 train engines of a Lev4 (the front & rear one); when I try to move the rear one the depot complains that if always follows the front one, but I've got someone's savegame where there are Lev4 trains with a front engine, wagons but *no* rear engine
01:19:20  <pv2b> you can throw the rear engine in the trash
01:22:36  <grimrc1> it won't let me do that either; 'can't sell railway vehicle... always follows front'; I can only sell the whole thing by selling the front; I have R6288 though; will try with 0.4.8
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01:33:31  <grimrc1> doesn't let me sell the rear in 0.4.8 either
01:33:52  <grimrc1> the guy was using 0.4.7 though
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02:52:02  <Jopps> hello everyone
02:52:19  <Noldo> morning
02:52:44  <lws1984> evening
02:52:58  <Jopps> hey do you guys know about installing newgrf files in openttd?
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02:53:06  <grimrc1> that's funny; some functions have 'normalize' in their name and others have the British spelling 'normalise'
02:54:26  <Jopps> isnt it open source maybe different people spelled it different ways
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02:54:59  <glx> grimrc1: same for color and colour
02:55:15  <grimrc1> I vote for British spellings
02:55:37  <lws1984> aye
02:55:42  <Jopps> well aussies are nearly the same as british i think
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02:55:59  <grimrc1> we could probably use macros and stuff to support both British and American spellings, to remove confusion, but it's not *that* important
02:56:17  <CIA-2> belugas * r6289 /trunk/ (newgrf.c newgrf_text.c):
02:56:17  <CIA-2> -Fix(r6108) : case 0x48 (generic text) should not have been set over newstations.
02:56:17  <CIA-2> It grabbed everyting. Instead, we are now using ids for that purpose, 0xC9, oxD0, 0xDC (FS#304 by Osai)
02:56:17  <CIA-2> - Protect newgrf text from entries of 1 char and fewer
02:56:17  <CIA-2> - Protect currency name from an overrun of ids
02:56:18  <CIA-2> Thanks to glx
02:56:20  <Jopps> anyway its lunch time here so ill be right back with a sanga lol
02:57:48  <grimrc1> a what?
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03:02:10  <Jopps> sandwhich i think you call it in the UK lol?
03:02:27  <Jopps> sanag is just slang
03:02:34  <Jopps> sanga*
03:02:51  <lws1984> sanga sounds like something from ikea
03:03:14  <Jopps> lol
03:03:15  <lws1984> The new Sangå desk, only .99 at IKEA!
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03:03:51  <Jopps> lol
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03:04:26  <Jopps> oi do you guys have some newgrf sets that add road vehicles?
03:04:48  <lws1984> aye, the British bus set
03:05:18  <Jopps> could you dcc it too me any others?
03:06:31  <lws1984> no
03:06:37  <Jopps> ?
03:06:45  <lws1984> but you can go to and find it yourself
03:06:55  <Jopps> k thanks
03:12:51  <Belugas_Gone> oups...
03:13:01  <Belugas_Gone> forgot a change
03:13:08  <Belugas_Gone> bah.. it can wait
03:13:51  <Jopps> um when i install these files it says i need ttdpatch does that mean i have to use that and not openttd?
03:14:25  <Belugas_Gone> You can use them with ottd
03:14:31  <Belugas_Gone> well... it depens.
03:14:36  <Belugas_Gone> some are not yet supported
03:14:46  <Belugas_Gone> what did you grabbed?
03:14:52  <Belugas_Gone> what version of ottd fo you have?
03:15:03  <Belugas_Gone> did you changed the openttd.cfg ?
03:15:16  <Jopps>
03:15:24  <Jopps> long road vehicles v4
03:15:44  <Jopps> the newest ottd just updated it
03:16:20  <Jopps> i havent changed oppenttd.cfg yet i dont really know how
03:17:22  <Jopps> do i put my .grf files in the transport tycoon folder or in openttd folder?
03:20:04  <Jopps> k ive found the folder to put them in is the data folder in oppenttd
03:20:24  <Jopps> now i just have to edit the openttd.cfg
03:20:34  <Belugas_Gone> yup, data folder.
03:20:54  <Belugas_Gone> edit openttd.grf, add the section [newgrf]
03:21:12  <Jopps> yep
03:21:16  <Jopps> done that
03:21:20  <Belugas_Gone> underneath, enter the exact same name as the grf you want to use
03:21:40  <Belugas_Gone> save (dhu...)
03:21:48  <Jopps> yep and ive put them in a folder called custom cause it said to do that on a site
03:21:49  <Belugas_Gone> restart ottd
03:22:09  <Belugas_Gone> in that case : "custom\name of the grf"
03:22:21  <Jopps> so is it custom/newgraf.grf
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03:22:30  <Jopps> yep thanks mate
03:22:39  <Belugas_Gone> np
03:23:44  <Jopps> what newgrf's do you have installed any youd recommend
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03:26:33  <Jopps> hmm i just launched the game not sure if it was working?
03:29:43  <Belugas_Gone> would you believ me if i tell you i don't have any installed?
03:31:36  <Jopps> yep
03:32:14  <Jopps> i found a few that i tried to install a while back on my comp so i have heaps to try now anyway
03:33:50  <Jopps> brb gonna go try them
03:35:32  <Belugas_Gone> enjoy
03:36:15  <Jopps> hmm the only one that didnt work was the long road vehicles one i really want more road vehicles to choose
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05:28:45  <eQualizer> Jahas, mitäs pillua. Tää kone on sammunu jo viime yönä! :O
05:29:44  <eQualizer> Oh, sorry, wrong channel. :D
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05:35:18  <grimrc1> should wagons always have v->cur_speed == 0?
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06:01:08  <peter1138> yeah, you can get the speed from the head enine
06:01:10  <peter1138> +g
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06:14:40  <grimrc1> peter1138: oh; I think this savegame must have wagons with nonzero current speed
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06:16:57  <grimrc1> wonder what could cause that
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06:22:51  <grimrc1> aha
06:22:57  <grimrc1> Wagon found
06:22:57  <grimrc1> cur_speed=15
06:22:57  <grimrc1> max_speed=112
06:22:57  <grimrc1> vehstatus=0
06:22:57  <grimrc1> oil van
06:24:12  <grimrc1> most wagons have zero cur_speed; but a fair number don't in this guy's buggy savegame
06:25:12  <grimrc1> I just ran a different savegame from somebody else independent and they had one or two buggy wagon speeds
06:25:50  <grimrc1> anyone know how to printf a vehicle->stringID ?
06:35:14  <grimrc1> does anybody have a savegame from an openttd version > 0.4.8 which is around the year 2010+
06:35:28  <grimrc1> openttd development version - not 0.4.8
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06:49:50  <grimrc1> have wagons used vehicle->cur_speed in previous versions?  patches??
07:01:27  <grimrc1> hah someone's porting openttd to C#
07:02:33  <Kjetil> to C-vb ?
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07:03:03  <Kjetil> Why would they do such a thing
07:12:14  <grimrc1> they must be mentally ill
07:13:14  <Archwyrm> They are afterall using C#..
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07:42:06  <grimrc1> is there a way to find out which versions of TTDLX/openttd a savegame has been saved with in the past (possibly multiple different ones)?
07:43:35  <peter1138> no
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07:44:44  <Bjarni> you can only read the version of the savegame
07:44:48  <MeusH> hi
07:45:12  <Bjarni> not if it was version 4 that was loaded, then saved as version 12, then loaded.... you know
07:45:24  <Bjarni> hi MeusH
07:45:59  <MeusH> How is the savegame revision stored? what's the limit?
07:46:24  <Bjarni> the limit is that it is 32 bit or something like that
07:46:42  <Bjarni> so we should have several million versions left
07:46:47  <grimrc1> oh; coz I've got some buggy savegames and I'm trying to work out what made them buggy
07:46:56  <Bjarni> it increases one version each time we change how to store a savegame
07:47:53  <grimrc1> some wagons don't have cur_speed = 0
07:48:35  <Bjarni> hmm
07:48:39  <Bjarni> weird
07:49:22  <grimrc1> I'm thinking of building loads of trains in an svn game and leaving it running for years to test
07:49:37  <grimrc1> coz I don't have many savegames
07:50:09  <grimrc1> actually, I'll just leave somebody else's broken savegame running, after having cleaned the buggy wagon speeds first
07:51:52  <grimrc1> is testing for GetPrevVehicleInChain(v) == NULL functionally the same as IsFrontEngine()?
07:55:05  <Bjarni> it should be, but....
07:55:28  <Bjarni> if the flags are corrupted, the shortcut that IsFrontEngine() use might be incorrect
07:55:47  <Bjarni> and if that is the case, then you got great problems
07:56:13  <peter1138> no
07:56:26  <peter1138> it's not the same for rows of wagons in a depot
07:56:34  <Bjarni> oh yeah
07:56:35  <Bjarni> right
07:57:26  <grimrc1> yeah; so I think the TrainController() function is ok
07:58:40  <grimrc1> the cur_speed != 0 for some wagons causes a bug in the depot, where a line of wagons can't be moved because the front one fails the test for cur_speed == 0
07:59:30  <grimrc1> I'm running a cleaned savegame now to see if it reverts to buggy behaviour
08:00:03  <Bjarni> most likely it will just work
08:00:14  <Bjarni> you can never reproduce those issues when you try to do so :P
08:00:15  <grimrc1> trouble is, the buggy savegame is at 2077, and few wagons are buggy
08:00:29  <Bjarni> specially not when you don't have a clue to what triggered them
08:00:42  <grimrc1> Bjarni: well, another savegame I happened to have from the forum for looking at another bug happened to have a few dodgy wagon speeds too
08:00:54  <Bjarni> hmm
08:00:58  <Bjarni> weird
08:01:03  <grimrc1> that game was quite far past 2000 as well
08:01:09  <peter1138> is this a recent thing?
08:01:22  <grimrc1> peter1138: yeah a recent bug report about this on flyspray
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08:01:31  * Bjarni tries to look into another bug
08:01:56  <Bjarni> "the other bug looks funny. There is an endian issue in the palette so the colours are switched in Intel Macs" <-- new cocoa video driver (not yet committed)
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08:02:09  <Bjarni> OpenTTD got the blues :P
08:06:26  <CIA-2> tron * r6290 /trunk/strings.c: -Feature: When automatically detecting the language try to first match language+territory (e.g. de_CH), then just language (e.g. de) and fall back to en_GB otherwise
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08:16:53  <grimrc1> the savegame has advanced about 8 years; my rough calculation was about half an hour to get a decent time period done; when will this game end anyway?
08:22:10  <peter1138> ...
08:22:18  <peter1138> they don't have to...
08:22:27  <grimrc1> great
08:23:01  <peter1138> heh, there were some ttdp shots of games of about 3100...
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08:50:37  <Darkvater> hey, they put me down in front of a P4 1.7GHz machine
08:50:45  <Darkvater> with only 256MB of memory
08:50:54  <Darkvater> and they wonder why it is so slow :(
08:51:07  <MaulingMonkey> lol
08:51:08  <peter1138> heh
08:51:17  <Darkvater> idiot IT
08:51:18  <peter1138> i saw one with 128MB... running XP
08:51:27  <peter1138> some people just have no clue
08:51:39  <peter1138> i don't think he realised it was slow
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08:52:02  <Tron> you mean the "running like a dead snail" sort of running?
08:52:05  <peter1138> the guy is used to using p2 266s and such like...
08:52:17  <Darkvater> yes, kinda
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09:08:13  <ubuntu> o_O
09:08:14  <ubuntu> hi
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09:08:20  <MeusH> oh my stupid
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09:08:44  <MeusH> if I have something called "ubuntu", I expect it not to work. This name is so not-pr0...
09:11:56  <grimrc1> booted livecd again?
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09:16:27  <MeusH> grimrc1, yeah
09:16:36  <MeusH> dmesg | less -S worked
09:16:44  <grimrc1> 'worked'?
09:17:02  <MeusH> btw, does -S mean it should respond for my up/down/pgup/pgdown key inputs?
09:17:24  <grimrc1> no, -S doesn't allow word wrapping (which makes the display a bit messy)
09:17:46  <MeusH> well It said things like hda: Maxtor... ATA... hdb: ST340016A ATA... hdc: cd... hdd: ST3120024A, ATA
09:17:55  <grimrc1> and the partitions?
09:17:56  <MeusH> now I'm not sure whether linux is hdb or hda
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09:18:56  <MeusH> well I see no partition stuff
09:19:02  <MeusH> how can I spot it? what's written?
09:19:11  <grimrc1> press / in the less program and you can type in a search; search for hda or hdb and you should find a partition list; press / and enter to repeat the last search
09:19:11  <torm> fdisk -l << will give you an idea... linux partitions will be marked "linux", windows will be Fat32/NTFS
09:19:32  <grimrc1>  hda: hda1 hda2 hda3 < hda5 hda6 hda7 > hda4   ---- I get this in my dmesg output
09:20:01  <grimrc1> does fdisk -l /dev/hda and fdisk -l /dev/hdb work for you MeusH?
09:20:11  <MeusH> I'll check
09:20:19  <MeusH> anyway I'm sure my linux disk is hdb
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09:20:50  <MeusH> Cannot open /dev/hdb
09:21:12  <grimrc1> primary slave hdb - Linux uses the logical drive connections instead of the BIOS I think; so if you swapped the drive order in the BIOS, Windows will probably take notice but Linux will not
09:21:46  <grimrc1> MeusH: are you running as root?
09:22:00  <MeusH> I'm not really sure, it's a liveCD
09:22:05  <grimrc1> try su
09:22:15  <grimrc1> or whoami
09:23:11  <MeusH> -bash /usr/bin/whoami: Input/output error
09:23:18  <MeusH> su asks for password
09:23:28  <grimrc1> that input/output error is strange
09:23:31  <MeusH> hitting enter (no password) returns failure
09:23:46  <MeusH> grimrc1, I heard noise on my HDDs and CD reader
09:23:53  <MeusH> all lights were lit
09:24:01  <grimrc1> does whoami work if you try it again?
09:24:20  <MeusH> no, now it returns error without any delay
09:24:45  <grimrc1> input/output error is not good; did you burn the CD at high speed or something?
09:24:53  <MeusH> torm: fdisk -l doesn't return anything
09:25:14  <grimrc1> MeusH: does it return 'cannot open /dev/hda'?
09:25:15  <MeusH> grimrc1, I got it free from friend who got it free from ubuntu
09:25:25  <torm> fdisk -l wont return anything unless you are root
09:25:34  <MeusH> fdisk -l /dev/hdb returns "cannot open"
09:25:48  <torm> MeusH: so you have an ubuntu live cd?
09:25:51  <MeusH> yep
09:25:58  <MeusH> I'll google how to log in as a root
09:26:02  <torm> okay type "sudo -s"
09:26:05  <MeusH> ok
09:26:06  <torm> that will give you root
09:26:11  <torm> then fdisk -l
09:26:15  <MeusH> yep
09:26:18  <MeusH>  it works
09:26:24  <torm> will list the parts for all disks in the machine
09:26:30  <torm> (what are you trying to do btw? lol)
09:27:33  <grimrc1> I've just read you have to use sudo with ubuntu
09:27:53  <torm> grimrc1: what the prob he's having?
09:27:55  <MeusH> hdb1 is linux, hdb2 is linux swap/solaris
09:28:17  <MeusH> torm, ubuntu freezes when booting
09:28:24  <grimrc1> MeusH: can you tell which partition your ubuntu /boot is on?  then you can mount it and get your grub.conf
09:28:44  <MeusH> grimrc1, how can fetch that info?
09:28:55  <MeusH> well we can mount both partitions
09:29:06  <MeusH> or the first one, as the second one is swap
09:29:09  <grimrc1> torm: I think moving the linux drive to primary slave (hdb) to put a windows drive on hda has confused grub
09:29:30  <torm> MeusH: did it ever boot or has it been freezing from a fresh install?
09:29:36  <grimrc1> sorry, confused Linux which probably receives initrd & root settings from grub
09:29:48  <MeusH> torm, it worked before buying new HDD and installing windows
09:29:54  <grimrc1> MeusH: yeah mount the first and see what it looks like
09:30:47  <torm> give me a tick, i think the ubu cd has a grub repair tool
09:30:54  <grimrc1> grub doesn't boot windows; BIOS boots off hdb to boot linux
09:30:58  <torm> one command to fix after a windows install
09:31:22  <grimrc1> BIOS boots Windows by booting hda
09:31:57  <grimrc1> I mean: Windows bootloader on hda and grub on hdb and BIOS is used to select boot drive
09:32:00  <torm> MeusH: one more question, which version of ubuntu?
09:32:09  <MeusH> breezy badger I think
09:32:22  <MeusH> mount /mnt/hdb1 /dev/hdb1?
09:32:39  <grimrc1> MeusH: the other way round, and the directory /mnt/hdb1 has to exist first
09:33:45  <grimrc1> /mnt/hdb1/ has to exist I mean; mkdir it
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09:35:22  <grimrc1> mount should detect the filesystem automatically; then cd /mnt/hdb1/boot
09:35:27  <grimrc1> cat grub.conf
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09:37:02  <AsterixMG> hi @all
09:37:56  <MeusH> hi AsterixMG
09:38:53  <MeusH> there is no grub.conf either in /mnt/hdb1/boot or /mnt/hdb1/boot/grub
09:39:01  <torm> my bad, it's the ubuntu dapper server cd that you can repair with
09:39:12  <grimrc1> MeusH: so you mounted it?
09:39:37  <grimrc1> you're sure they're no grub.conf?
09:41:24  <blathijs> MeusH: it's called menu.lst
09:41:26  <torm> it's /boot/grub/menu.lst i thinik
09:41:35  <torm> blackis: lol
09:42:47  <grimrc1> is it!?
09:43:15  <grimrc1> weird; that's a symbolic link to grub.conf on my Gentoo
09:43:49  <grimrc1> cat menu.lst and examine that; it probably has the ubuntu section with hda instead of hdb
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09:46:11  <torm> hmm:
09:46:24  <torm> MeusH: sounds about right?
09:53:18  <MeusH> cat menu.lst in /boot/grub gave a long result
09:53:33  <MeusH> torm: I saw it, but grub worked and loaded linux
09:53:48  <MeusH> we concluded yesterday that shouldn't be the problem...
09:56:12  <MeusH> so there are patches in menu.lst to non-existing files I think
09:56:34  <grimrc1> MeusH: less -S menu.lst and have a look for the ubuntu section
09:57:35  <MeusH> title           Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.12-10-386
09:57:35  <MeusH> root            (hd0,0)
09:57:35  <MeusH> kernel          /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.12-10-386 root=/dev/hda1 ro quiet splash
09:57:35  <MeusH> initrd          /boot/initrd.img-2.6.12-10-386
09:57:35  <MeusH> savedefault
09:57:36  <MeusH> boot
09:57:52  <MeusH> I think root should be /dev/hdb1
09:58:10  <grimrc1> MeusH: yeah that's the one; the root bit is wrong too I think
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09:58:27  <MeusH> do you think fixing it will fix linux for good?
09:58:53  <grimrc1> you see the initrd bit; I think that's where the kernel panicked; quite often distros put some essential kernel modules inside an initial ram disk (initrd)
09:59:27  <grimrc1> MeusH: remember grub has a weird naming scheme?  root    (hd0,0) is grub's name for /dev/hda; that needs to be changed to (hd1,0) I think
10:01:27  <MeusH> aww shit, I think this one will be my quickest and the best lesson of vim
10:01:33  <grimrc1> MeusH: you haven't heard the best bit yet MeusH, you don't need to reinstall grub to boot/test your hard disk Linux; grub has a command-line; you need to checkout the exact options, but you can edit the ubuntu section on the grub command-line and give your new settings a test drive (they won't be saved in grub this way though)
10:02:24  <grimrc1> on the other hand, you can edit grub.conf now and apply the updated settings *carefully* to the right hard disk (which you say is hdb)
10:02:26  <MeusH> so you suggest to write down what I see on a paper, then rewrite it to grub commandline changing "this and that"?
10:02:51  <MeusH> grimrc1, it's menu.lst. Are we talking about the same file?
10:03:15  <grimrc1> MeusH: no; the problem is you need the grub man page to know how to tweak the command-line version; it uses the same commands but you need to get in to the edit mode
10:03:50  <grimrc1> MeusH: yep menu.lst is exactly the same as grub.conf (symbolically linked on my Gentoo machine); I'm used to it being called grub.conf, but times have changed
10:04:12  <MeusH> May I also do the backup using liveCD (like menu2.lst), and edit menu.lst here?
10:04:59  <grimrc1> MeusH: yeah I'd make a copy of menu.lst and leave the original intact; I think your liveCD grub is expecting menu.lst to be in /boot/grub/menu.lst and not /mnt/hdb1/boot/grub/menu.lst
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10:06:05  <MeusH> there is also a file, and all its content is dev/hda
10:06:33  <grimrc1> mine has (hd0)    /dev/hda
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10:07:28  <grimrc1> I'm not an expert on, but I think you should not copy it; grub autodetects which hard drive is hda and which is hdb etc.
10:07:54  <MeusH> whoops, I'm afraid /mnt/hdb1 is read-only
10:08:06  <grimrc1> MeusH: /boot/ should be rw
10:08:07  <MeusH> I can't paste, cut, delete, rename things
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10:08:23  <grimrc1> or /tmp/
10:08:41  <MeusH> It says I'm not an owner
10:08:57  <MeusH> maybye I shall try in terminal, but of course I don't know thecommand :/
10:09:15  <grimrc1> I think you need to run sudo vim ?
10:09:32  <grimrc1> you should be able to copy menu.lst to /boot/grub/
10:09:40  <peter1138> system recovery generally needs root ;p
10:10:06  <MeusH> menu.lst is already on /boot/grub
10:10:16  <MeusH> I just want to make a recovery copy
10:10:55  <grimrc1> the menu.lst on /boot/grub/ will be the ubuntu liveCD one right?  you don't want that one
10:11:20  <MeusH> sorry, I'm talking abount /mnt/hdb1/boot/grub one
10:11:23  <grimrc1> you want your hard drive menu.lst in the liveCD ramfs /boot/grub/
10:11:58  <grimrc1> if you want to back up your hard disk ubuntu's grub.conf, you'll need to mount one of your Windows partitions read/write and copy it to there
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10:12:40  <MeusH> grimrc1, can't I copy-paste it in the /mnt/hdb1/boot/grub?
10:12:58  <grimrc1> what do you mean by copy-paste it?
10:14:38  <MeusH> so I have the backup copy on the linux partition
10:14:52  <AsterixMG> hmm, sounds like I'm in the wrong channel here :) did #openttd convert to a linux-channel?
10:15:15  <grimrc1> MeusH: you can copy it to /boot and leave the original on your Linux partition
10:16:50  <MeusH> well that's what I think I should do: copy  /mnt/hdb1/boot/grub/menu.lst to  /mnt/hdb1/boot/grub/menu_backup.lst, then edit  /mnt/hdb1/boot/grub/menu.lst, save changes and try to boot linux without LiveCD
10:18:12  <grimrc1> MeusH: easier way: write down the old ubuntu settings (root, kernel & initrd), then reboot on to Linux hard drive, get to the grub menu, then press e (edit) and change the ubuntu option to how it should be and then try to boot it
10:19:06  <MeusH> so when I see a countdown (3 seconds left, press ESC for menu), I shall hit E, or ESC, then E?
10:19:27  <grimrc1> root should be:  root     (hd1,0)   and the /dev/hda in the kernel line should be /dev/hdb
10:19:36  <grimrc1> MeusH: pretty sure you just press e; that's what I do on mine
10:20:28  <MeusH> allright
10:21:22  <grimrc1> from info grub: 'Commands are available to enter a bare command-line by pressing <c> (which operates exactly like the non-config-file version of GRUB, but allows one to return to the menu if desired by pressing <ESC>) or to edit any of the "boot entries" by pressing <e>.'
10:21:58  <grimrc1> e is the best
10:22:29  <MeusH> so editing would mean I won't have to retype everything as I will see the original configuration file and I'll just change 0 to 1, hda to hdb etc?
10:22:37  <grimrc1> MeusH: true
10:23:48  <MeusH> okay, cya later
10:23:51  <MeusH> thank you very much
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10:24:18  <CIA-2> bjarni * r6291 /trunk/ (12 files):
10:24:18  <CIA-2> -Feature: Vehicle lists from the station window now also got the goto depot button
10:24:18  <CIA-2> -Codechange: unified the code for mass goto depot to avoid duplicated code
10:24:18  <CIA-2> -Fix: Vehicles already on the way to depots will not be cancelled by mass goto depot (made it really hard to send all vehicles at once)
10:24:23  <Bjarni> AsterixMG: new conflict alert :P
10:24:38  <Bjarni> still a simple one though
10:24:50  <AsterixMG> lol
10:25:14  <AsterixMG> your commit was the first ottd-related thing i've seen on this channel today, Bjarni  :P
10:25:32  <Bjarni> :(
10:25:43  <Bjarni> I was idle so I could finish and test this patch
10:26:30  <AsterixMG> hehe.. yeah, vehicle.c conflicts :)
10:27:02  <grimrc1> Bjarni: I noticed that bug you've fixed
10:27:34  <Bjarni> so did I ;)
10:27:58  <grimrc1> I was wondering if it was deliberate; like select all - some
10:28:36  <Bjarni> it was more like an if, that in some cases behaved differently than expected
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10:29:02  <Bjarni> bugs are usually caused by such issues
10:29:42  <CIA-2> tron * r6292 /trunk/video/sdl_v.c: -Cleanup: Indentation, bracing, etc.
10:29:45  <AsterixMG> Bjarni, did you have a look at my last diff/any comments on it?
10:30:08  <Bjarni> a little/no
10:31:20  <grimrc1> I haven't managed to trigger this wagon cur_speed bug yet :o/
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10:32:05  <MeusH> hi
10:32:23  <AsterixMG> im not around for long today, so you have good chances to break ma patch again, Bjarni ;)
10:32:35  <AsterixMG> wb MeusH
10:32:36  <Bjarni> no
10:32:46  <MeusH> so, setting "root (hd1,0) resulted in Fileststem type unknown, partition type 0x7 ... Error 17: Can't mount selected partition
10:32:55  <Bjarni> because I think I'm more or less done editing stuff that affects your patch
10:33:13  <grimrc1> MeusH: really?  with the /dev/hdb thing too?
10:33:38  <MeusH> so I changed it back to hd0,0, but one line below, there was kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.12-10-386 root=/dev/hdb1
10:33:45  <MeusH> however, it froze again
10:33:54  <grimrc1> same error?
10:34:43  <grimrc1> I think the BIOS must make /dev/hdb in to hd0,0 when it boots off it
10:36:12  <grimrc1> MeusH: you could try changing root=/dev/hdb1 to real_root=/dev/hdb1 ?
10:36:21  <grimrc1> with root   (hd0,0)
10:37:31  <CIA-2> tron * r6293 /trunk/video/sdl_v.c: -Codechange: Simply use KMOD_CTRL instead of KMOD_LCTRL | KMOD_RCTRL, same for KMOD_SHIFT
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10:39:27  <MeusH> so I shall get rid of root and put real_root, or keep both?
10:39:29  <grimrc1> that's the only thing I can think of really; root the same, but root=/dev/hda to real_root=/dev/hdb
10:39:38  <grimrc1> root    hd0,0 the same
10:39:45  <MeusH> ok
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10:40:16  <grimrc1> I'm stuck if that doesn't work
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10:52:05  <MeusH> :(
11:01:46  <CIA-2> tron * r6294 /trunk/video/cocoa_v.m: -Cleanup: Add static
11:03:32  <grimrc1> no luck?  I can't really think of anything else
11:03:52  <grimrc1> probably easier to just reinstall
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11:11:21  <MeusH> well I'd reinstall, I'd prefer Fedora Core - I have CD of version 4, any chance to upgrade it to 5?
11:11:30  <MeusH> my net speed isn't really fast though
11:11:44  <MeusH> and I think I will unplug my windows drives
11:11:57  <MeusH> too many mess happened before because of all these grubs and lilos
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11:16:07  <grimrc1> I'm surprised it doesn't work with the updated options
11:18:43  <ln-> Tron: are you doing something very important to cocoa_v.m?
11:19:41  <MeusH> grimrc1, after editting, I pressed 'b' to boot
11:19:49  <grimrc1> yep
11:19:57  <MeusH> I noticed that pressing ESC and booting didn't save the changes
11:20:14  <MeusH> well, I'm pretty much confused
11:20:15  <grimrc1> oh
11:20:32  <grimrc1> always the same kernel error
11:20:45  <MeusH> what's your view on installing Fedora Core 4, with UNPLUGGED NTFS drives?
11:21:01  <grimrc1> MeusH: no comment?
11:21:14  <MeusH> well why?
11:21:23  <grimrc1> I don't know if it'll work this time
11:25:31  <grimrc1> there is one last, last thing you could try btw; changing initrd /boot/whatever to initrd (hd1,0)/boot/whatever   --- probably a waste of time bothering though
11:26:11  <grimrc1> actually I don't think that'd help
11:29:25  <MeusH> well I'll try
11:29:41  <MeusH> you already helped me very much, and I feel stupid that it didn't work
11:32:11  <Eran-> err... is this some kind of a developers discussion...? :D
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11:42:29  <grimrc1> I wouldn't try it; it's wrong what I said
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11:59:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> MeusH, grimrc1: just a random thought, what about modifying the fstab also?
12:00:13  <grimrc1> I don't know if it'd help or not
12:00:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> and when installing linux, please have _all_ drives attached... changing drive configuration afterwards just makes things worse...
12:00:57  <MeusH> well why not to try
12:01:26  <MeusH> Eddi|zuHause2, can I write-protect HDD some way?
12:01:38  <MeusH> especially its MBR?
12:01:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> you shouldn't have to...
12:02:01  <MeusH> I want to
12:02:17  <Darkvater> 'o/ only 7 MB free swapmemory
12:02:26  <Darkvater> rejoice at the idiotic IT
12:02:46  <MeusH> When installing linuxes before, grub either installs on the first drive (hda, a NTFS drive) and messes my windows stuff, or removes partition data and I can't acces anything on my windows HDD
12:03:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> when i installed SuSE, i could chose exactly which MBR to put grub to, and which windows partitions to keep...
12:03:16  <MeusH> belive me, terrible things were happening before
12:03:38  <MeusH> good for you
12:03:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> although i chose to kill windows, and install on hda ;)
12:05:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> but even installing grub on hda should back up the windows bootloader, and make grub add a "boot to windows" option
12:05:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> you just have to chose carefully what you set up
12:06:05  <glx> I use ntloader for multiboot
12:06:20  <glx> I had too much lilo crash
12:08:10  <grimrc1> yeah I've had bad things happen with Gentoo's LiveCD installer
12:08:57  <grimrc1> MeusH: you can back up your mbr with dd if=/dev/hda of=/somewhere/mbrfile bs=512 count=1  ---- you can then put this back on the drive by swapping if= and of=
12:09:31  <torm> i'm such a geek... we coulnt decide which movie to see (Snakes on a plane, clerks 2, fearless) and didnt have a dice, so i wrote a c++ prog to decide for us :P
12:10:08  <grimrc1> I think Sacro said snakes on a plane was pornographic or something
12:10:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> i can't count the times i have used maple to give me random numbers for similar things ;)
12:10:32  <grimrc1> my God!  human randomness isn't *that* broken
12:11:19  <torm> lol, problem exists between the keyboard and the chair mate... :P
12:11:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> well... i just have to go to the next channe, and type !m randomize(), rand() mod x [where x is the number of options]
12:11:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> *channel
12:12:28  <torm> does that work in here?
12:12:36  <torm> !m randomize(), rand()
12:12:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> the problem was, last time i tried, i forgot to assign numbers to the options, so the result did not hold much information ;)
12:13:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, we have a maple guy over on quakenet/#mathe
12:13:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> (if he happens to be there...)
12:16:20  <torm> !calc 5 + 6
12:16:22  <_42_> torm: 11;
12:16:30  <torm> !calc rand()
12:16:31  <_42_> torm: Runtime error (func=(main), adr=2): Function rand not defined.;
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12:16:46  <torm> !calc randomize(), rand()
12:16:47  <_42_> torm: (standard_in) 2: parse error;
12:16:52  <torm> !calc randomize(), rand() mod 5
12:16:53  <_42_> torm: (standard_in) 2: parse error;(standard_in) 2: parse error;
12:17:01  <torm> !calc randomize(); rand() mod 5
12:17:01  <_42_> torm: (standard_in) 2: parse error;
12:17:04  <glx> torm: _42_ uses bc
12:17:09  <glx> not mapple
12:17:13  <torm> ahh
12:17:18  <torm> that'd be why
12:20:27  <torm> aight catcha later peeps, C++ decrees that Fearless will be seen tonight
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12:26:35  <mrno> Hello, Probably a very stupid question, but will the next release/beta be version 5? or 4.9? And another (dumb?) question. Must the new graphics be made with blender or can it be another program (lets say cinema4d)?
12:27:21  <hylje> mrno: ottd uses 2d graphics at this time, so any sprite-worthy graphic will do
12:27:41  <hylje> mrno: be it 3d or 2d (3d can be "captured" to 2d)
12:28:03  <mrno> yes, i read the wiki about blender and newgraphics, but i'm used working with cinema 4d, that why :)
12:28:14  <hylje> do not know
12:28:15  <grimrc1> I read that too; don't know what it means
12:28:18  <mrno> I render to iso perspective
12:28:28  <hylje> as long as you can render it it should be fine
12:28:31  <glx> if you can export stuff to a format that blender can open, it should be ok
12:28:34  <hylje> (exporting to blender too?)
12:28:38  <grimrc1> is making 3d models easier than 2d images?
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12:29:02  <mrno> hmm, depends on the person
12:29:02  <hylje> grimrc1: id say that 3d is easier to make look good than 2d
12:29:07  <mrno> I like 3d :)
12:29:16  <grimrc1> bc doesn't seem to have a random number generator
12:29:25  <grimrc1> !sine 30
12:29:31  <grimrc1> !calc sine 30
12:29:32  <_42_> grimrc1: (standard_in) 2: parse error;
12:29:33  <mrno> hmm, dunno bout that. I think 3d needs good textures to look nice
12:29:44  <glx> !calc s(30)
12:29:44  <_42_> glx: -.9880316240;
12:29:59  <grimrc1> !calc s pi/2
12:30:00  <_42_> grimrc1: (standard_in) 2: parse error;
12:30:26  <grimrc1> darn
12:31:20  <grimrc1> _42_ doesn't respond to private messages either
12:33:46  <mrno> It's a pitty there isn't any info on light placing without opening a blender scene. I'll do that (install blender and see the settings), but it would be nice if that info was on the wiki :)
12:34:58  <mrno> I tried allready making a scene in cinema 4d, and I think I have the light right, but don't kno wfor sure offcourse
12:35:23  <hylje> well
12:35:26  <hylje> you can be the first :)
12:35:50  <mrno> hehe :) who knows :)
12:36:51  <MeusH> grimrc1, try #templeofthebot
12:37:01  <MeusH> oh, he's no longer here
12:37:09  <grimrc1> ?
12:37:13  <CIA-2> bjarni * r6295 /trunk/ (aircraft_cmd.c roadveh_cmd.c ship_cmd.c train_cmd.c): -Feature: using goto depot with a different control selection will now alter the service/stopping in depot flag instead of cancelling the goto depot order
12:38:13  <TrueLight> MeusH:
12:38:17  <TrueLight> you made up the channel yourself
12:38:26  <MeusH> yeah, there it is :)
12:41:04  <grimrc1> my word; you really can trust *noone* on the internet
12:41:13  <MeusH> why?
12:41:14  <grimrc1> I got powned
12:41:17  <grimrc1> heh
12:41:18  <MeusH> where?
12:41:28  <grimrc1> here
12:41:35  <hylje> hahah
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12:43:35  <MeusH> hello Belugas
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12:53:00  <MeusH> bbl
12:53:52  <Belugas> hey MeusH )
12:57:12  <Maedhros> hey Belugas
13:03:48  <KUDr_wrk> Rubidium: ping (
13:04:53  <Rubidium> KUDr_wrk: just seen that, does look OK?
13:06:36  <Belugas> hey Maedhros :)
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13:08:01  <KUDr_wrk> Rubidium: yes, it looks good
13:18:57  <CIA-2> rubidium * r6296 /trunk/settings.c: -Fix (r6186): some more (YAPF) settings were affected by accident. Thanks to mart3p for noticing (and to SVN for failing to mark the changes as conflicts).
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13:28:42  <Sacro> ahhh, IRC...home
13:29:12  <Bjarni> I like m3henry's signature
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13:29:53  <Bjarni> that penguin "Tux?" told me that I'm using a mac (like I didn't know that) and that I should download TTDpatch right away :P
13:30:11  <hylje> :o
13:30:34  <Bjarni> minor error in the script? :P
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13:38:07  <CIA-2> tron * r6297 /trunk/ (6 files): -Codechange: Disentangle the query window mess a bit: Move the network game password handling somewhere were it belongs to
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13:48:51  <CIA-2> glx * r6298 /trunk/ (openttd.vcproj openttd_vs80.vcproj): -Fix(r6297): add network_gui.h to MSVC projetc files
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13:51:01  <Sacro> a computer geek
13:53:20  <hylje> quick, call the press
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14:02:07  <CIA-2> miham * r6299 /trunk/lang/ (american.txt french.txt hungarian.txt portuguese.txt):
14:02:07  <CIA-2> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-09-01 16:00:05
14:02:07  <CIA-2> american - 4 fixed by WhiteRabbit (4)
14:02:07  <CIA-2> french - 9 changed by glx (9)
14:02:07  <CIA-2> hungarian - 4 fixed by miham (4)
14:02:08  <CIA-2> portuguese - 4 fixed, 3 changed by izhirahider (7)
14:03:13  <Bjarni> <CIA-2>	miham * r6299 /trunk/lang/ (american.txt french.txt hungarian.txt portuguese.txt): <-- I like how the channel stats picks up ): and logs CIA-2 as a sad person :D
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14:03:46  <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: :D
14:03:55  <glx> Bjarni: no if pisg is well configured
14:04:03  <peter1138> heh
14:04:37  <Bjarni> well, we might have eliminated that by now, but at a time, two CIA bots were the saddest in the channel
14:04:50  <hylje> :<
14:05:14  <Bjarni> hylje: soften up
14:05:26  <hylje> :<
14:05:39  <Bjarni> that's not soften up
14:05:53  <hylje> :3
14:06:08  <MiHaMiX>
14:06:09  <MiHaMiX> :DDDDDD
14:06:33  <Bjarni> good one
14:07:47  <Bjarni> sounds kind of like filling the map in OpenTTD with railroad (note: completely fill) and then after showing it to somebody asking "how do you place signals?"
14:07:56  <Bjarni> I actually saw that o_O
14:08:07  <Bjarni> dedicated line for each train
14:08:32  <Bjarni> I would have expected more from a university student :P
14:08:34  <peter1138> heh
14:08:41  <hylje> wtfu
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14:22:17  <Belugas> Anyone has any comments on this ?
14:22:19  <Belugas>
14:22:20  <hylje> no
14:22:39  <Belugas> it is part of the XTDwidget, but against trunk
14:24:28  <Belugas> The idea is to remove the 32 bits limit on widgets
14:24:41  <Belugas> i know, there are not that many uses of hidden
14:24:51  <hylje> i see
14:24:51  <Belugas> but it is like a proof od concept
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14:25:34  <Belugas> further more, the mousemove is really not needed in this case, as the state of the vehicle can be evaluated
14:25:41  <Belugas> on paint.
14:25:55  <Belugas> therefore, i think, an imporval of performance
14:26:04  <Belugas> improvement ...
14:26:07  <Belugas> wahtever
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14:31:38  <Tron_> Belugas: the state can change over time
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14:32:55  <Belugas> if the state changes, then it is reflected within the pain event.  LIke speed lowering
14:33:11  <Belugas> Test it, you will see ;)
14:33:32  <Tron_> are you sure not only the text widget at the bottom is invalidated?
14:36:38  <Belugas> The mini viewport too.
14:37:07  <Belugas> as to know waht and how, no, i'm not sure.
14:37:13  <Belugas> I know it does fine, taht is for sure
14:37:40  <Belugas> In Windows XP, anyway
14:37:53  <Belugas> I don't nkow if the behaviour changes on other OSs
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14:56:55  <Tron_> Belugas:
14:59:06  <peter1138> maybe it'll be up to r7000 by the time i get back into things
14:59:24  <Belugas> proof of concept failed.  Thanks tron
14:59:37  <Belugas> what have you done?
15:00:30  <Tron_> stopped road vehicle
15:00:31  <Tron_> pause
15:00:32  <Tron_> start
15:00:37  <Tron_> redraw screen
15:00:39  <Tron_> stop again
15:00:52  <Tron_> but i guess there are more realistic ways to trigger this
15:01:22  <Tron_> the problem is sometimes only the status bar widget is redrawn
15:01:48  <Tron_> like roadveh_cmd.c:235
15:02:23  <Tron_> this can probably resolved easily
15:03:01  <Tron_> alternativly you can leave this logic as it is for now and concentrate on just moving the hidden bit into struct Widget
15:03:13  <Tron_> which is a Good Thing(tm) btw
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15:05:13  <Belugas> Noted Tron, wherever you are now :)
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16:38:53  <TrueLight> woei,I love green@!
16:39:04  <hylje> o rly@!
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16:52:31  <Wolf01> hi
16:52:41  <MeusH> hi Wolf01
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17:20:03  <TrueLight> YOU BROKE THE GREEN LINES! :(
17:20:08  <TrueLight> Now all prettyness is gone
17:20:10  <TrueLight> stupid Wolf01 :(
17:20:26  <Wolf01> ;_;
17:20:56  <TrueLight> :)
17:21:04  <TrueLight> I have no idea what kind of smiley that is
17:21:09  <TrueLight> but ugly it is :p
17:21:11  <TrueLight> brrrrrrrrrr
17:21:19  <TrueLight> pompiedom
17:21:22  <TrueLight> boring in here :p
17:21:26  <TrueLight> Sacro: WHERE ARE YOU?
17:21:30  <Wolf01> :'| <-> ;_;
17:21:54  <Wolf01> i need help with multiline signs
17:22:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> you urgently need a life ;)
17:22:17  <TrueLight>
17:22:21  <Wolf01> lol
17:23:38  <Wolf01> :O two of mine friends are on
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17:32:15  <WolfAngel> evening...
17:32:35  <TrueLight> attack of the Wolfs
17:32:39  <WolfAngel> ^^
17:32:42  <Wolf01> hi WolfAngel
17:32:47  <WolfAngel> anytime, anywhere
17:32:55  <hylje> :o
17:33:04  <WolfAngel> ^_^
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17:42:51  *** Bjarni is now known as Trapper
17:43:08  <Trapper> ok, let me take care of the wolves
17:43:19  * Trapper takes care of the wolves
17:43:23  <Trapper> done
17:43:40  <Trapper> TrueLight: now you are safe
17:43:44  *** Trapper is now known as Bjarni
17:43:59  <TrueLight> tnx :)
17:44:29  * Wolf01 bites Bjarni
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17:45:35  <Kjetil> You can't bite a higher being made of pure energi
17:45:39  <Kjetil> energy*
17:46:00  * Wolf01 bites Kjetil
17:46:20  * Kjetil cuts Wolf01 head of with a chainsaw
17:46:43  * Wolf01 's head bites Kjetil
17:47:06  <Kjetil> *nibbels on Wolf01s ear*
17:49:18  *** Wolf01 was kicked from #openttd by TrueLight [no biting in this channel]
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17:49:39  * Wolf01 bit... ehm
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17:50:40  <Wolf01> Kjetil is tasty :P
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17:58:40  <Bjarni> I'm away for a moment and the whole channel turns savage....
17:59:06  <Bjarni> I even had a trapper to take care of the wolves and they still bite the people in here
17:59:13  <Bjarni> he cheated me :o
18:00:26  <Wolf01> no, peoples were to much near to the cage
18:00:35  <Wolf01> *people
18:03:03  <MeusH> we wanted to hand you a banana
18:03:14  <MeusH> Darkvater said wolves like bananas
18:03:22  <Wolf01> i'm not a monkey!
18:03:31  <MeusH> but you like bananas
18:04:09  <Wolf01> as darkwater like to eat ants
18:04:17  <Wolf01> *darkvater
18:05:38  <MeusH> that's quite right, assuming the rumor that SROTU eats banned forum members is true
18:07:05  <Wolf01> ok, stop fooling around
18:07:41  <Wolf01> what about multiline signs, like post-it?
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18:35:41  <CIA-2> bjarni * r6300 /trunk/vehicle.c:
18:35:41  <CIA-2> -Fix: FS#321 autoreplace / wagon removal
18:35:41  <CIA-2>  turned out to be a failure to run the wagon remoral code if the player didn't have enough money to do the replace after the replace took place
18:35:41  <CIA-2>  the cost animation failed to show in this condition as well
18:35:41  <CIA-2>  Now the test is not run anymore after the replace took place
18:40:53  <Bjarni> it's funny. This bug have been there since wagon removal was added (and before, but then it was just missing cost animation). Nobody noticed until now
18:41:13  <Bjarni> nobody had the right settings + money to trigger this... or something like that
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18:41:32  <Sacro> Bjarni: or wasnt paying attention
18:43:28  <Bjarni> maybe
18:43:36  <Bjarni> but the trains became too long for the stations
18:51:14  <Sacro> hmm
18:51:45  <hylje> :o
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19:33:50  <Wolf01> what does mean "priority" on the extended order list of the miniIN?
19:34:34  <hylje> interesting
19:36:52  <Bjarni> I don't know, but I guess it could be something to do with what vehicle gets loaded first when more than one is waiting for full load
19:36:57  <Bjarni> *are
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20:13:38  <Wolf01> 'night all
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21:03:32  <ln-> quite a silent night
21:03:39  * lws1984 turns up the volume
21:03:41  <Sacro> quite a lonely night
21:03:41  <lws1984> now it's not
21:03:51  * Sacro listens to the who on csi
21:04:23  <Belugas_Gone> bye boeyzzzzzzzzzzzzz
21:04:52  <TrueLight> ln-: don't break the green-spree :(
21:04:54  <TrueLight> it is so pretty!!! :(
21:11:25  <smeding> 'lo all
21:11:31  <smeding> entertain me. D:
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21:13:55  <Sacro> hehe
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21:15:05  <MeusH> hi smeding
21:15:14  <smeding> hi
21:15:15  <MeusH> I'm about to measure things with Darkvater
21:15:19  <smeding> hmm?
21:15:23  <MeusH> but seems he's on a lonely walk
21:15:30  <MeusH> well he's gone
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21:15:33  <smeding> also sorry about that, but i tried something so had to restart X
21:15:38  <Sacro> MeusH: do we really want to ask what?
21:15:57  <MeusH> yes we do really want to ask... but yeah, what?
21:16:17  <Sacro> <MeusH> I'm about to measure things with Darkvater  <--- im curious (or maybe im not...)
21:16:50  <MeusH> you may be either measured or measuring
21:16:56  <MeusH> choice is on your side
21:17:07  <Sacro> me that sounds kinda dirty
21:17:22  <MeusH> you have a dirty mind :o
21:17:25  <MeusH> <Sacro> quite a lonely night <-- yep, only spammers writing to me :(
21:17:38  <Sacro> your the one measuring stuff with Darkvater
21:18:10  <MeusH> okay, then you are the one who will be subject of our experiment
21:18:44  <Sacro> oooh...hmm...what do i need to do?
21:20:39  <MeusH> hmm
21:20:46  <MeusH> that's quite intriguing question
21:24:16  * Sacro goes off to learn C#
21:24:26  <Bjarni> wrong choice
21:24:36  <Bjarni> OpenTTD is coded in C
21:24:41  <Bjarni> C != C#
21:24:50  <Bjarni> oh wait
21:24:57  <Bjarni> C is not the same as C#
21:25:09  <Bjarni> can't use != to a guy, who can't code :P
21:27:00  *** Triffid_Hunter [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:27:22  <Sacro> Bjarni: C <> C! ?
21:27:25  <Sacro> hmm
21:27:30  <Sacro> no, C<>C#
21:27:38  <smeding> C# = fail
21:29:39  <Bjarni> the symtax is not important. The fact is that you need to write in C to code patches for OpenTTD
21:30:07  <Sacro> that aint true
21:30:32  <Bjarni> it is if you want us to commit your patches
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21:33:00  <MaulingMonkey> <devilsadvocate>But you (royal you) commited C++ patches (*cough* YAPF *cough*)</devilsadvocate>
21:33:15  <MaulingMonkey> :P
21:33:41  <smeding> YAPF?
21:33:49  <smeding> that seems nethack slang.
21:33:52  <MaulingMonkey> Yet Another Path Finder.
21:33:57  <smeding> oh wait.
21:34:00  <smeding> heh
21:34:06  <smeding> Nethack peoples have a lot of YA*
21:34:25  <MaulingMonkey> I think I watched nethack be played once.
21:34:36  <MaulingMonkey> Then again I might just be recalling reading the GPF archives.
21:34:46  <Bjarni> I didn't commit YAPF
21:34:47  <smeding> Nethack is tricky :/
21:34:57  <MaulingMonkey> Bjarni: Hence the "(royal you)"
21:35:16  <KUDr> it was me
21:35:23  <Bjarni> yeah
21:35:28  <KUDr> "royal me" :)
21:35:28  * Bjarni blames KUDr
21:35:41  * smeding tries to remember where KUDrland is
21:35:44  <MaulingMonkey> KUDr: Sorry, I'm out of crowns :(
21:35:53  * Bjarni got the feeling that KUDr missed the meaning of "royal" in this case
21:35:54  <Bjarni> :P
21:35:55  * Zaviori blames those pesky deers shooting laser beams out of their eyes
21:36:02  <KUDr> no
21:36:05  <smeding> and i know it's the Czech republic but i don't know where that is.
21:36:07  <Zaviori> Oh yees
21:36:09  <MaulingMonkey> Bjarni: ....royal pain in the ass?  ;-P
21:36:15  <KUDr> but i am not regular ottd dev
21:36:18  <MaulingMonkey> kekeke
21:36:34  <smeding> ZERG RUSH
21:36:38  <Bjarni> <MaulingMonkey>	Bjarni: ....royal pain in the ass?  ;-P <-- that would be (CLASSIFIED)
21:36:43  <KUDr> and YAPF is still not in release
21:36:46  <Sacro> MaulingMonkey: s/..../=/ ;)
21:36:47  <Bjarni> he is not nice at all
21:37:27  <MaulingMonkey> KUDr:  There is no trunk/spoon!
21:37:30  * Sacro likes him cos he upsets Bjarni
21:37:57  <Bjarni> Sacro: nice to see that you like yourself :P
21:37:59  * Bjarni hides
21:38:12  * Sacro is glad...peace
21:39:21  <Sacro> hmm, i wonder if its #C#
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21:40:24  <Sacro> MonoBasic a real language
21:40:56  <MaulingMonkey> Is anything with BASIC in it's name?
21:41:42  <MaulingMonkey> And celestar still hasn't done jack shit about my patch after poking him <_<
21:41:59  <MaulingMonkey> (that I've noticed anyways)
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22:07:03  <MeusH> bye
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22:22:19  <Bjarni> !seen celestar
22:22:21  <_42_> Bjarni, Celestar ( was last seen quitting #openttd 1 day 1 hour 40 minutes ago (31.08. 20:41) stating "Ping timeout: 480 seconds" after spending 14 hours 52 minutes there.
22:22:57  <Bjarni> MaulingMonkey: I'm not sure we should wait for Celestar to talk about it
22:23:23  <MaulingMonkey> I poked him about it 19 minutes after he got on then
22:23:25  <MaulingMonkey> but never got a reply
22:23:34  <MaulingMonkey> nor update of the flyspray bug progress
22:24:41  * Bjarni got the feeling that Celestar is less active than he used to be
22:26:31  <Bjarni> which one is your patch?
22:26:42  <MaulingMonkey> lemme bring it back up
22:27:02  <MaulingMonkey> Second one linked here is the one I've been using for the past week without issues:
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22:29:08  <MaulingMonkey> Only modifications are a conditional tweak and changing the current_order.flags .  Shouldn't affect savegames or anything, tested it against the cross referenced buggy savegames in 251 and 218 which it fixes, and did a quick multiplayer test (non dedicated) which seemed to run just fine as well.
22:30:13  <Bjarni> I got a bad feeling about this
22:30:25  <Bjarni> Celestar didn't touch it since May
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22:38:58  <MaulingMonkey> What's the worst that could happen?  He comes back in a flurry of activity and fixes the bug in a different way?  He can just undo my changes then :)
22:41:21  <Bjarni> that's not a worst case scenario
22:41:33  <Bjarni> a worst case scenario is that he will not come back and fix this
22:41:35  *** ThePizzaKing [] has joined #openttd
22:42:03  <MaulingMonkey> I meant if my patch were commited regardless of the task having originally been asigned to him :)
22:43:34  *** Dred_furst [] has joined #openttd
22:44:44  <Bjarni> so you are PandaMojo?
22:45:22  <MaulingMonkey> Yes
22:45:32  <Bjarni> nice to know
22:45:43  <Bjarni> now I got 3 different names that applies to you
22:45:48  <MaulingMonkey> Yeah, I meant to change my IRC name here to that :P
22:45:50  <MaulingMonkey> 3?
22:45:51  <MaulingMonkey> what's the other?
22:45:54  <Bjarni> how many other people are in your head?
22:45:55  <Bjarni> :P
22:45:58  <MaulingMonkey> lol
22:46:24  <Bjarni> you also typed your (presumed) real name on flyspray
22:46:28  <MaulingMonkey> Oh, right
22:46:53  *** ChrisM87 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:47:19  *** MaulingMonkey is now known as PandaMojo
22:47:35  <PandaMojo> Alright, I think I've got chatzilla's settings right this time :P
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22:50:00  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-83-100-200-160.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:52:04  <mikk36> hey :)
22:52:05  <Brianetta> I'm back at home now. Unfortunately I have killed my keyboard with a cup of tea, and I am entering text with dasher.
22:52:15  <mikk36> question about openttd installer in windows
22:52:28  <mikk36> is it safe to just install a newer version on top of the old one ?
22:53:08  <mikk36> Brianetta, take the keyboard apart, wash it, put back togeter and then try again
22:53:26  <mikk36> a cup of tea is nothing for a keyboard
22:53:39  <mikk36> unless it gets to the pcb area :)
22:53:43  <mikk36> in the corner
22:54:49  <Brianetta> already tried. it's buggered.
22:55:02  <mikk36> too bad :/
22:55:06  <Bjarni> Brianetta: unplug it and take it to the shower. Use water around air temperature and a lot of it
22:55:12  <izhirahider> mikk36, depends how old
22:55:15  <Bjarni> and wait for it to dry (might take up to two days)
22:55:44  <mikk36> 047
22:56:25  <izhirahider> mikk36, what do you want to use
22:56:46  <Brianetta> Test
22:56:54  <Bjarni> mikk36: it should be safe unless you use the very first version of the installer. We released again the day after we released it with a hotfix "-Fix: windows installer deleted all savegames"
22:56:54  <Brianetta> This is a spare keyboard
22:56:58  <mikk36> Bjarni, a quick was with a cleaning aid (fairy is perfect) and few minutes with a hairdrier from a moderate distance (don't make it too hot) and then a hour or so is enough
22:56:58  <Bjarni> don't use that one ;)
22:57:07  <Brianetta> The tea went between all the membranes
22:57:18  <Brianetta> I can't clean it out without breaking plastic welds
22:57:18  <Bjarni> hairdryer is banned
22:57:21  <mikk36> err
22:57:25  <Bjarni> you should never heat electronics
22:57:30  <glx> you can always install a newer version of openttd over an old one (using zip version)
22:57:31  <mikk36> all the layers should be seperateable
22:57:48  <mikk36> Bjarni, 50-60 degrees is nothing
22:57:48  <Brianetta> mikk36: They are, except at two places where they are welded for alignment
22:57:55  <mikk36> then cut it
22:57:59  <mikk36> and align again later
22:57:59  <Brianetta> Take any Z-Board apart and you'll see what I mean
22:58:05  <Brianetta> I am not cutting it
22:58:15  <mikk36> well, u've lost it anyways then
22:58:20  <Brianetta> I have already bene at it with paper-cloth and water
22:58:23  <Bjarni> drown it with max water flow and see if you are lucky
22:58:25  <mikk36> ur options are:
22:58:32  <Brianetta> It's drying (hopefully)
22:58:36  <mikk36> 1) it's just dead and u're not touching it
22:58:40  <mikk36> 2) u'll fix it :)
22:58:44  <Brianetta> you
22:58:47  <Brianetta> it's spelled you
22:58:55  <mikk36> yayaya :P
22:58:56  <Bjarni> 3) you wait for it to magically repair itself
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22:59:01  <Brianetta> unless you're using my Z-Board
22:59:15  <Brianetta> in which case you get XB"Y ot7u9-
22:59:23  <mikk36> if the tea is between the layers then it won't magically get fixed
22:59:36  <Brianetta> The tea has been diluted
22:59:48  <mikk36> the remains of it are still there
22:59:52  <mikk36> onle water is gone
22:59:56  <mikk36> only*
22:59:58  <Brianetta> Now I'm relying on basic physics to cause the molecules to become airborne one by one
23:00:05  <mikk36> riiigt
23:00:06  <Bjarni> <mikk36>	Bjarni, 50-60 degrees is nothing <-- actually it is if you heat a little area. You risk stressing the PCB and that is what kills PCB
23:00:13  <Brianetta> the tiny tea residue can be dealt with by typing harder
23:00:23  <mikk36> Bjarni, that's why i said to heat it from a moderate distance
23:00:24  <Bjarni> if you slowly heat it up, thenn yes, it can handle 60 °C
23:00:26  <mikk36> not from 10cm
23:00:50  *** Ammler [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:00:52  <Brianetta> Anyway, I'm usinga spare
23:01:19  <Brianetta> and I needed a new Z-Board anyway because the default key tops are wearing out
23:01:36  <Brianetta> and they don't sell replacement default keysets
23:01:58  <mikk36> the keys wear out or just the writings on them ?
23:02:16  <Bjarni> you might be able to heat it up to say 100°C for a short period of time if needed (make sure it's off when you do that). Not more due to whatever liquids the components may contain
23:02:19  *** Ammler [] has joined #openttd
23:02:26  <Bjarni> but you risk taking years of the expected lifetime
23:02:39  <Bjarni> it's better just to wait for it to dry on it's own
23:03:12  <mikk36> just drying won't make it work if it's between 2 layers that are stuck together
23:03:37  <Bjarni> that is what the waterflow should take care of
23:03:43  *** lws1984 [] has joined #openttd
23:03:55  <mikk36> also u'd have to use destilled water then
23:04:05  <mikk36> else it won't help that much
23:04:20  <mikk36> anyway
23:04:30  <mikk36> 048 on top of 047 is absolutely safe, right ?
23:04:53  <Bjarni> actually that should not be important if you make sure it's disconnected... it's likely safer than heating it up
23:05:01  <Bjarni> <mikk36>	048 on top of 047 is absolutely safe, right ? <-- yes
23:05:07  <glx> mikk36: yes just unzip 0.4.8 over 0.4.7
23:05:21  <glx> no need to use the installer
23:05:21  <Bjarni> if you get problems, then you will be the first one :P
23:05:27  <mikk36> :P
23:05:41  <mikk36> i'll try to be one then
23:06:18  * Bjarni imagines mikk36 screaming "oh no. Now it deleted "my documents""
23:06:27  <mikk36> that would hurt a bit
23:06:29  *** jchavez [] has quit []
23:06:33  <mikk36> but i don't have any savegames :)
23:06:38  <mikk36> i only play online on my desk
23:06:46  <Bjarni> followed by "wait, I looked at the wrong place"
23:07:14  <mikk36> also
23:07:19  <mikk36> i wouln't scream
23:07:23  <mikk36> ;)
23:07:50  <Bjarni> <mikk36>	but i don't have any savegames :) <-- not true. You got autosave. You might just overwrite them and never use them again, but that's irreverent
23:07:50  <mikk36> i'd think like this: erm.. what the hell... er.. why is the folder empty ? fuck... not again... fuuuck fuuuuuuck fuckkkkk
23:08:08  <Bjarni> "not again"? :)
23:08:19  *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
23:08:26  <mikk36> i've lost stuff through not completely backing things up before formatting
23:09:13  <glx> I always check carefully before formating :)
23:09:19  <Bjarni> I once lost 3 GB due to a power failure while optimising the disk :(
23:09:44  <mikk36> err.. how, Bjarni ?
23:09:52  <mikk36> a 3GB file ?
23:10:23  <Bjarni> power died with writing in a critical place and the 3 GB disk failed to mount afterwards nomatter what I did
23:10:30  <glx> just broken the FAT (or whatever it's named)
23:10:33  *** KritiK [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:10:47  <mikk36> and u didn't try any restoring programs?
23:10:51  *** Mucht is now known as Mucht|zZz
23:10:54  <Bjarni> it was an HFS disk
23:11:01  <Bjarni> <mikk36>	and u didn't try any restoring programs? <-- they all failed
23:11:05  <mikk36> :/
23:11:10  <Bjarni> it was really dead
23:11:13  * mikk36 tries to remember what HFS meant
23:11:27  <Bjarni> MacOS filesystem
23:11:31  <mikk36> oh, ok
23:11:51  <Bjarni> got a 16 bit file counter :P
23:11:53  <mikk36> n1 ten :P
23:12:01  <mikk36> hehe... old one then
23:12:06  <Bjarni> or was it block counter...
23:12:31  <mikk36> let's wikipedia for that :)
23:12:33  <Bjarni> anyway, they fixed that and replaced it with the imaginary named HFS+
23:13:08  <Bjarni> and today it's journaled HFS+
23:13:33  <Bjarni> you can switch off the journaled part if you like, but why do that :P
23:14:19  <glx> reminds me that Vista is still using NTFS (they failed to finish WinFS :) )
23:14:56  <mikk36> ax file size 	2 GiB
23:14:56  <mikk36> Max number of files 	65535
23:14:56  <mikk36> Max filename size 	31 characters
23:14:56  <mikk36> Max volume size 	2 TiB
23:15:15  <mikk36> glx, what's so bad about ntfs ?
23:15:22  <mikk36> even linux can write it now
23:15:41  <mikk36> freely
23:15:42  <glx> I have no problem with NTFS, but WinFS looked promising
23:15:56  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-83-100-200-160.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
23:16:07  <Bjarni> <mikk36>	Max filename size  31 characters <-- this was nice considering DOS did worse, so it was really long filenames at that time
23:16:09  <mikk36> :)
23:16:18  <mikk36> yeah
23:16:30  <mikk36> introduced in '85
23:16:42  <mikk36> also.. mac still doesn't use the max power of hfs+ :P
23:16:43  * Sacro sneezes
23:16:48  <mikk36> ill, Sacro ?
23:16:49  <glx> yeah f***ing 8.3 filenames always to short to describe what it's in it
23:16:52  <Sacro> XP doesnt use the power of NTFS
23:16:58  <Sacro> mikk36: nah
23:17:12  <Bjarni> <mikk36>	also.. mac still doesn't use the max power of hfs+ :P <-- explain
23:17:26  <mikk36> Mac OS 	files per folder 	max. file size 	max. volume size
23:17:26  <mikk36> Mac OS 8 	32767 (2^15) 	2 GiB 	2 TiB
23:17:26  <mikk36> Mac OS 9 	32767 (2^15) 	2 TiB 	2 TiB
23:17:26  <mikk36> Mac OS X 10 & 10.1 	2^31 	2 TiB 	2 TiB
23:17:26  <mikk36> Mac OS X 10.2 	2^31 	8 TiB 	8 TiB
23:17:28  <mikk36> Mac OS X 10.3 & 10.4 	2^31 	16 TiB 	16 TiB
23:17:29  <mikk36> HFS Plus 	unlimited 	16 EiB 	16 EiB
23:17:53  <mikk36> :)
23:17:55  <Bjarni> ahh that
23:18:30  <Sacro> hmm, "what is your estimated <span style="font-weight: bold">unearned</span> income before deductions for the academic year 2006/200/
23:18:38  <Bjarni> they do use it for storing filenames in UTF-8
23:18:42  <Sacro> s/\/$/7/
23:19:01  <Sacro> hmm, thats a complex one
23:19:05  * Sacro puts 0
23:19:07  <Bjarni> or actually it's wide UTF-8 (iconv calls it UTF-8-MAC)
23:19:39  <Bjarni> it's faster for searching the disk than regular UTF-8
23:19:49  <mikk36> hehe
23:20:00  <mikk36> ntfs supports UTF-16 for filenames :P
23:20:16  <Sacro> it also supports symlinks
23:20:26  <glx> XP doesn't :)
23:20:30  <mikk36> does
23:20:32  <Sacro> WTF
23:20:52  <mikk36> it's called a junction in windows :)
23:20:55  <Sacro> "are you unnder 25 or over or are you under 25 and married or in a civil partnership"
23:21:21  <mikk36> the answer is always yes :D
23:21:23  <glx> Sacro: no I guess
23:21:29  <mikk36> lol
23:21:39  <Bjarni> I like how OSX got different names in GUI (finder) for the buildin stuff, while when you only get English strings when using CLI
23:21:46  <Sacro> oh, its just 25 or over
23:21:57  <Bjarni> apps use the CLI paths, so translations will never make different paths like windows do
23:22:29  <mikk36> wha ? @ Bjarni
23:22:54  <Bjarni> I should use an app developed in Germany and it didn't support spaces in the path, so it died big time due to "Program files" :P
23:23:15  <Bjarni> they translate "Program files"
23:23:36  <Sacro> hehe
23:23:42  <Sacro> mkdir c:/Program :D
23:23:44  <glx> progra~1 works too
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23:23:54  <glx> at least for accessing
23:24:15  <Bjarni> OSX got the files and dirs in English, and then the default ones are translated when displayed in the GUI
23:24:52  <Bjarni> ensures that /Applications/ is always the place for applications even if you use a translations, that calls that dir something else
23:25:12  <mikk36> Bjarni, should be the same in windows
23:25:28  <Bjarni> well, it's not
23:25:38  <glx> yes but not all programs use that
23:25:39  <Bjarni> I can see that with that German app
23:26:41  <Bjarni> If you should make an app, that relies on translated paths in OSX, you should.... well I don't know.. but at least it's not trivial and you don't do it by accident
23:26:59  <glx> real player created an "accessories" dir under my start menu instead using to default one
23:29:48  *** PandaMojo [] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.74 [Firefox]]
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23:33:14  * Sacro finds the excorcist
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