Log for #openttd on 28th October 2006:
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00:00:19  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: then why haven't you started coding it? You seems to want it badly :P
00:01:10  <Bjarni> <Sacro>	im getting VS 2005 Pro next week :D <-- do you mean that your p2p download will finish next week given speed will not drop?
00:01:22  <Bjarni> I mean you claimed it to be out of financial reach of you
00:01:28  <Sacro> Bjarni: nope, i already ahve the warz0red version
00:01:34  <Sacro> but i have my MSDNAA access now
00:01:49  <Bjarni> what's that?
00:02:32  <ln-> MSDN anonymous alcoholics?
00:02:36  <Sacro> MS Developers Network Academic Allience
00:02:47  <Bjarni> ohh
00:02:51  <Naksu> ln-: worse than you thought? :)
00:03:07  <Bjarni> I think I had access to that one once as well
00:03:19  <Bjarni> they wanted to give me a whole lot of stuff I never needed
00:03:32  * ln- prefers Apple Developer Connection
00:04:48  * Sacro prefers linux
00:05:26  <ln-> well so do I, but apple is nice too.
00:05:43  <ln-> and there's no equivalent to MSDN and ADC for linux, as far as i know.
00:06:01  <Sacro> errr... no, linux is already open sourced
00:06:11  <Sacro> maybe google summer of code
00:06:45  <ln-> does it necessarily have to be related to open sourcedness?
00:07:04  <Sacro> no... but it helps
00:07:27  <Bjarni> or at least being free to download
00:07:40  <Naksu> ln-: all the mailing lists maybe
00:07:44  <Sacro> Bjarni: yes... that was my point, im half asleep here
00:08:07  <ln-> Bjarni: how well will OpenTTD integrate with the new Time Machine?
00:08:14  <Naksu> as i recall msdn thingies were about some mailing list, some dodgy beta software, news and some random help articles
00:08:14  <Bjarni> you can always download the newest Xcode for free, but it's not open source
00:08:26  <Naksu> time machine?
00:08:34  <Bjarni> ln-: well.... I don't know
00:08:38  <Eddi|zuHause> someone should code MB's level crossings with bars for the diagonal crossings...
00:08:39  <Sacro> Bjarni: its still a proprietory OS
00:08:39  <Bjarni> I didn't look into that yet
00:09:09  <ln-> Naksu:
00:09:51  * Sacro scratches
00:10:12  <ln-> "Apple provides API access to Time Machine's underlying facilities to developers can provide the same experience for accessing information in their applications."
00:11:37  *** robobed is now known as roboboy
00:11:51  * Sacro smothers roboboy with  a sheet and drags him off
00:13:06  <Bjarni> <-- they demonstrate timemachine at around 31:40
00:13:14  <Bjarni> quicktime needed for viewing
00:13:21  <Bjarni> go figure ;)
00:13:43  * Sacro wants some games for his new pc
00:13:57  * Sacro warez0rs openttd
00:14:37  <Naksu> time machine?
00:14:56  <Naksu> i'm gonna venture a guess that it's just some undelete thingy
00:15:29  <ln-> it's a lot more than that.
00:15:50  <Bjarni> ln-: actually, what would you want OpenTTD to use time machine for?
00:15:57  <Bjarni> backup of autosaves?
00:16:13  <ln-> that's the only use i can imagine.
00:16:14  <Bjarni> backup of config files?
00:16:27  <ln-> rather autosaves..
00:16:32  <Sacro> "do a search for a program called grfcrawler using a search engine like google. "
00:16:34  <Sacro> :|
00:16:45  <Naksu> "it's a lot more than that. it's a paradigm."
00:17:36  <ln-> Time Machine is -- as far as I understand -- a version control system and a backup tool combined.
00:18:05  <ln-> i wonder if every file is versioned even if it's saved by a non-timemachine-aware program.
00:18:06  <Bjarni> Sacro: that returned
00:18:30  <Sacro> Bjarni: but its not a program
00:19:33  <SpComb> Logs:
00:19:33  <Sacro> !logs
00:20:04  <Sacro> hmm
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00:20:32  <Sacro> lws1984!
00:20:39  <lws1984> Sacro!
00:20:44  <Sacro> i seem to have lost quakenet
00:20:50  <lws1984> i have too
00:20:54  <lws1984> were you on WinEasy?
00:21:11  <Sacro>
00:21:22  <lws1984> hmmm
00:21:51  <Sacro> oh well, tis bedtime soon
00:22:50  <jez> Sacro: Bjarni stopped playing with your mind?
00:23:02  <ln-> off-topic: what does "diffusional explanation" mean?
00:23:17  <Sacro> jez: i found him something else toplay with
00:23:56  <jez> Sacro: wow, he'll be at that all night
00:24:17  <Sacro> jez: yep
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00:51:30  <Bjarni> damn now Sacro left :(
00:52:00  <Bjarni> <Sacro>	jez: i found him something else toplay with <-- "be careful not to make your keyboard sticky" would have been a great reply :P
00:52:10  <lws1984> HAHAAHAHHA
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03:30:49  <Ailure> damn
03:31:05  <Ailure> loading some of my savegames done back in the days of vanilla TTD and TTDpatch xD
03:31:16  <Ailure> life before pre-signals
03:33:08  <Ailure> rofl
03:33:24  <Ailure> trying to load savegames from TTO was a bad idea
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08:12:49  <Wolf01> hi
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08:21:00  <peter1138> hello
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08:48:43  <Wolf01> peter1138, can you give me an hand with grfs for the eyecandy patch?
08:50:57  <peter1138> hmm?
08:51:38  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r6972 /trunk/settings.c: - Codechange: Allow standard ini-file style comments
08:51:39  <Wolf01> i'm trying to use a gui like the newstations one to select which sprite to use with the purchase land tool
08:52:59  <peter1138> uh huh
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08:59:03  <Tron> peter1138: what's a ini-file style comment?
09:01:46  <peter1138> ;
09:02:23  <peter1138> of course, it should be "standard" in quotes...
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09:11:51  <Wolf01> is not operative yet, but you can immagine something like the newstations list with a preview of what are you placing in the map
09:12:39  <peter1138> you need all those includes? ;p
09:12:48  <Wolf01> i think not
09:14:17  <peter1138> ouch
09:14:27  <peter1138> storing a spriteid in the map :/
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09:17:39  <peter1138> here's a tip: don't do that :)
09:18:15  <Wolf01> is not all my work, only the gui, but i appreciate the frost's work
09:19:04  <Wolf01> and both we didn't have any idea how to make it different as it is now
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09:41:02  <Tron> people are stupid whiners
09:41:05  <Tron> -	int selection = m_selection;
09:41:05  <Tron> -	const int sm = m, sn = n;
09:41:05  <Tron> -	const bool selected_m = selection == sm, selected_n = selection == sn;
09:41:05  <Tron> -	if      (selected_m) selection = sn;
09:41:05  <Tron> -	else if (selected_n) selection = sm;
09:41:07  <Tron> -	if (selected_m or selected_n) = selection);
09:41:08  <Tron> read this code
09:41:18  <Tron> that's ugly and complicated, isn't it?
09:41:55  <Tron> i replaced it by something simpler and easier to comprehend
09:41:59  <Tron> and somebody complained!
09:42:02  <jez> Tron: are you ignoring PMs?
09:42:18  <Tron> no, but i can just type one sentence at a time
09:42:27  <Tron> but i'm ignoring you know, thanks
09:42:42  <Tron> s/know/now/
09:42:48  <jez> why...?
09:43:15  <Sacro> :\ still... 8 hours later?
09:43:42  <Tron> ok, last answer: because you can't be patient for 30 seconds and immediatly accused me
09:43:57  <jez> oh ok, so a question is an accusation
09:43:57  <jez> heh
09:47:44  <ln-> no, but not being able to wait 30 seconds is, in my opinion.
09:48:11  <jez> take your meds.
09:50:21  <peter1138> Tron: bah, who wants simple code anyway?
09:50:35  <ln-> jez: that, in turn, was an insult. why?
09:50:40  <peter1138> if there're no triple pointers involved it's too simple :)
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09:51:08  <Ailure> programmers insisted doing clever coding is the ones who also tends to cause all the bugs. :p
09:51:16  <Ailure> Remember the KISS principle
09:51:44  <Tron> peter1138: pah, three star programming is for pussies!
09:52:22  <Tron> Ailure: yep, in fact the guy who wrote the original code got it wrong the first time
09:53:16  <Ailure> heh
09:53:21  <Ailure> when I program i usually try to make it work
09:53:26  <Ailure> then I try to clean it up
09:53:28  <Ailure> then I make it effective
09:54:06  * peter1138 wonders if the price of dtv boxes will stay the same when they become compulsory
09:54:17  <Tron> Ailure: the old code was neither
09:54:36  <Ailure> Then there's no reason to keep the older code
09:54:46  <Ailure> if the newer one is both cleaner and more effective
09:54:50  <Tron> peter1138: it probably will be triplicate
09:54:59  <Tron> s/be //
09:55:19  <Ailure> I probably should dig through the code of openTTD whenever i'm not busy.
09:55:57  <Ailure> Going to sleep now though.
09:56:17  <peter1138> *sigh*
09:56:28  <peter1138> buying PC bits is too complex these days
09:56:45  <Tron> Ailure: it's not OpenTTD code
09:57:09  * peter1138 ponders fixing bjarni's autoreplace gui
09:57:17  <Ailure> ah, I was talking about coding in general.
09:58:41  <Ailure> Dosen't matter what language though, too complex code only brings problems and confusion for other programmers.
09:59:04  <Ailure> Meh, ok i'm going to sleep for real before I say anything (more) stupid. :p
09:59:53  <jez> ln-: trying to get people /kicked doesn;t become you.
10:07:21  <Sacro> peter1138: i bought mine yesterday, what are you after?
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10:09:00  <peter1138> Sacro: dunno
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10:54:35  <CIA-1> tron * r6973 /trunk/pool.h: Add macros to easily create a pool with less code duplication and more opportunities for constant expression evaluation
10:55:30  <CIA-1> tron * r6974 /trunk/newgrf_spritegroup.c: use the pool macros for the SpriteGroup pool
10:56:06  <CIA-1> tron * r6975 /trunk/ (date.c oldloader.c openttd.c saveload.c vehicle.c vehicle.h): Use the pool macros for the Vehicle pool
11:02:46  <CIA-1> tron * r6976 /trunk/ (depot.c depot.h oldloader.c): Use the pool macros for the Depot pool
11:08:58  <CIA-1> tron * r6977 /trunk/ (engine.c engine.h saveload.c): Use the pool macros for the EngineRenew pool
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11:12:06  <Maedhros> hello
11:32:15  <CIA-1> tron * r6978 /trunk/newgrf_sound.c: Use the pool macros for the SoundInternal pool
11:32:47  <CIA-1> tron * r6979 /trunk/ (industry.h industry_cmd.c oldloader.c openttd.c): Use the pool macros for the Industry pool
11:33:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> how many pools do we have?
11:36:06  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: keep counting...
11:37:37  <CIA-1> tron * r6980 /trunk/ (oldloader.c openttd.c order.h order_cmd.c saveload.c): Use the pool macros for the Order pool
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11:40:51  <CIA-1> tron * r6981 /trunk/saveload.c: Use the pool macros for the Savegame pool
11:40:55  * Maedhros experiments:
11:42:02  <Sacro> Maedhros: wooyay
11:42:54  <Wolf01> semaphores before a year and then light signals?
11:43:12  <Maedhros> yup, and each multiplayer client can set the date individually
11:43:29  <Wolf01> mine too, but seem that nobody noticed it
11:44:00  <CIA-1> tron * r6982 /trunk/ (oldloader.c openttd.c signs.c signs.h): Use the pool macros for the Sign pool
11:44:13  <Maedhros> Wolf01: yours was a patch against the signal gui though wasn't it, which isn't in trunk?
11:45:38  <Wolf01> mine was for miniIN and had nothing to do with the signal gui (but it breaks the signal gui because you can't select which signal to place, but you can see the current signal and place the other with ctrl)
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11:46:28  <Maedhros> ah, ok
11:47:00  <Wolf01>
11:48:24  <CIA-1> tron * r6983 /trunk/ (oldloader.c openttd.c saveload.c station.h station_cmd.c): Use the pool macros for the Station pool
11:51:43  <CIA-1> tron * r6984 /trunk/ (saveload.c station.h station_cmd.c): Use the pool macros for the RoadStop pool
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11:54:30  <Wolf01> purno can you draw these for your 2cc set?
11:54:31  <Wolf01> (passengers)
11:54:31  <Wolf01> (freight)
11:54:58  <CIA-1> tron * r6985 /trunk/station_cmd.c: Remove stuff forgotten in r6984
11:55:31  <CIA-1> tron * r6986 /trunk/ (oldloader.c openttd.c saveload.c town.h town_cmd.c): Use the pool macros for the Town pool
11:58:07  <Wolf01> and the 646 in old livery:
11:59:15  <CIA-1> tron * r6987 /trunk/ (waypoint.c waypoint.h): Use the pool macros for the Waypoint pool
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12:06:38  <LSky`> =o
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12:07:44  <CIA-1> tron * r6988 /trunk/saveload.c: Remove a layer of indirection when using the Savegame pool
12:09:14  * Maedhros struggles with his laptop in an attempt to get it to recognise his CardBus wireless card
12:10:22  <CIA-1> tron * r6989 /trunk/pool.h: Remove the unused GetItemFromPool() function
12:12:27  <CIA-1> tron * r6990 /trunk/order_cmd.c: Remove stuff forgotten in r6980
12:19:34  <peter1138> go tron :D
12:19:39  <Tron> that's all
12:25:35  <hylje> :p
12:26:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> ugh... train crawling with 25km/h... it could maybe use another engine...
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12:29:39  <Purno> Wolf01 , that first one, is that an engine consisting of two parts?
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12:30:28  <Wolf01> mmm not, i think is only the chassis cut
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12:31:40  <Purno> Hmmm....
12:31:48  <Purno> What engine is it?
12:31:59  <Wolf01> e646
12:32:25  <Purno> what country?
12:32:41  <Wolf01> italy
12:33:04  <CIA-1> tron * r6991 /trunk/yapf/fixedsizearray.hpp: Remove an unnecessary const_cast<> and incorrect comment (There is a difference between const FOO* and FOO* const)
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12:33:36  <Purno> ok, I'll consider it
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12:36:09  <Wolf01> about the 2 parts, here is a freight model of the e646
12:37:25  <Purno> the freight model is quite ugly IMO.
12:37:35  <Purno> does the passenger e646 have 2 parts too?
12:38:07  <Wolf01> is like this, only a little different
12:38:14  <Purno> nice
12:38:22  <Purno> I think I'm gonna draw it then...
12:40:37  <Wolf01> here is the e656
12:41:59  <Wolf01> as you can see all ours engines were similar
12:43:09  <Wolf01> yeah, i found a good site of railroads models
12:43:21  <CIA-1> tron * r6992 /trunk/yapf/yapf_road.cpp: Make a const_cast<> obsolete by properly propagating the type
12:44:08  <Wolf01> if you want to look for italian engines and carriages:
12:44:51  <KUDr> Tron: finally i understan what was wrong! thanx
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13:04:06  <BobingAbout> i do have 1 problem
13:04:11  <BobingAbout> oops
13:08:34  <Purno> Wolf01 , consider the passenger e646 as one of the lucky ones in my set :). Could you give me the stats of it?
13:10:46  <Wolf01> yes, i'll search now
13:14:50  <Wolf01> Prototype's features
13:14:50  <Wolf01> Gauge: 1,435 mm
13:14:50  <Wolf01> Manufactured in: 1961
13:14:50  <Wolf01> Continuous service power: 3,780 Kw
13:14:50  <Wolf01> Maximum speed: 140 Km/h
13:14:51  <Wolf01> Total length: 18,290 mm
13:14:51  <Wolf01> Weight at standard load: 110,000 Kg
13:17:39  <Wolf01> ok, the same for production model
13:25:12  <Purno> how much hp is 3,780 Kw?
13:26:56  <Tron> 1hp equals 745W
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13:27:05  <Purno> thx
13:27:15  <Tron> <Wolf01> Gauge: 1,435 mm <--- hey, that's as wide as about two horses arses!
13:27:31  <Purno> so that's 3,780/745 right?
13:27:41  <Purno> 3,780/0,745 of course*
13:27:59  <Purno> 0. even
13:28:17  <Tron> no
13:28:33  <Purno> hmm...
13:28:37  <Purno> where do I make the mistake?
13:28:38  <Tron> *1000/745
13:28:53  <Purno> 3,780*0.745?
13:29:02  <Tron> no
13:29:11  <Purno> argh.
13:29:14  <Purno> I'm confused
13:29:19  <Tron> 1000/745 is a number > 1
13:29:23  <Tron> 0.745 isn't
13:29:53  <Purno> 3,780*1000/745?
13:30:13  <Tron> yes
13:30:14  <Purno> 5073?
13:30:17  <Purno> 5072 hp
13:30:24  <Purno> arg, typo
13:30:27  <Purno> 5073hp?
13:30:58  <Tron> 5069hp to be precise
13:31:16  <Tron> the factor is 745.69987
13:31:35  <Tron> hm, well, that looks like a precision error itself
13:32:22  <Maedhros> that's the same result as 3780/0.74569987, surely? ;)
13:32:28  <Tron> ok, the exact conversion factor is 745.7W/hp
13:33:48  <Purno> so, I was right at the start? :>
13:33:52  <Tron> huh?
13:34:00  <Tron> oh
13:34:09  <Tron> i didn't read your second line
13:34:24  <Purno> Ah well, thx anyways
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14:06:48  <CIA-1> tron * r6993 /trunk/landscape.c: -Regression (r5833): Rails/roads on steep slopes incorrectly show a foundation edge if the NE/NW adjacent tile is a steep tile
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14:13:11  <Tron> either nobody pays attention to the details or nobody uses my feature /:
14:13:47  <hylje> ?:o
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14:15:07  *** lws1983 is now known as lws1984
14:21:30  *** Sacro|AFK is now known as Sacro
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14:25:33  <Sacro> tash!
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14:29:05  <Sacro> !seen truelight
14:29:07  <_42_> Sacro, TrueLight was last seen joining the partyline on DorpsGek 3 days 19 hours 30 minutes ago (24.10. 18:59).
14:29:21  <Sacro> !seen werido
14:29:22  <_42_> Sacro, werido? hmm... I'm trying to remember... maybe... I'm not sure... no. I don't remember werido.
14:29:25  <Sacro> !seen weirdo
14:29:26  <_42_> Sacro, weirdo is on #openttd.tgp right now.
14:29:40  <lws1984> !seen me
14:29:40  <_42_> lws1984, me? hmm... I'm trying to remember... maybe... I'm not sure... no. I don't remember me.
14:29:46  <lws1984> !seen spoon
14:29:48  <_42_> lws1984, I don't remember seeing spoon.
14:29:56  <lws1984> what a boring bot
14:30:02  <lws1984> of course you won't remember seeing it
14:30:06  <lws1984> because there is no!
14:30:17  *** Sacro is now known as spoon
14:30:20  *** spoon is now known as Sacro
14:30:23  * peter1138 returns
14:30:34  <Sacro> [15:30] -_42_- lws1984 ( was looking for you on #openttd 31 seconds ago (28.10. 14:29).
14:31:13  <lws1984> woaaaah
14:31:26  <Sacro> BobingAbout: ping
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14:37:39  <CIA-1> tron * r6994 /trunk/aircraft_cmd.c:
14:37:39  <CIA-1> -Regression (r6291): When sending an aircrafts to a hangar the wrong bit gets tested to determine if a aircraft should stop there or just get serviced
14:37:39  <CIA-1> Also remove a stale comment
14:37:39  <CIA-1> Both spotted and fixed by Mart3p
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14:53:51  <MiHaMiX> hmm
14:53:57  <MiHaMiX> seems like i've hit a bug
14:54:13  <MiHaMiX> OpenTTD window became black all of a sudden
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15:09:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... if i wanted a catchment area that is significantly longer than a train length, which line would i search for?
15:10:22  <peter1138> what's the connection between catchment area and "a train length"?
15:11:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> well... if i place a large station, i have trouble placing it where it actually reaches the target... especially in a city
15:11:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> and if i place it too far away, where i have the space, i only get a few houses
15:11:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> plus, i have a large amount of track in the area of the station, reducing the number of houses i get further...
15:12:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> so i'd rather have a station with catchment radius of 20, if my station is like 8x8 big...
15:13:51  <peter1138> so you want the catchment area dependent on the station size?
15:14:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, that might be bonus, but i want to change my local catchment area of all stations for now...
15:14:42  <peter1138> well you're looking at FindCatchmentRadius in station_cmd.c
15:16:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> thanks
15:29:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> great, that even seems to work ;)
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15:32:18  <xyz> hi
15:32:42  <xyz> can anyone help me with the terraforming in openttd?
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15:37:05  <Progman> which problem do you got?
15:38:30  <Progman> in the toolbar the 4. last symbol, the one with the river
15:42:42  <Tron> or just press "L"
15:42:44  <xyz> ieh
15:43:46  <xyz> i was wandering if there is just a function call for the Level Land
15:44:21  <xyz> i mean
15:45:04  <xyz> if i can get the same effect as the "Level Land" calling just 1 function
15:45:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> if anyone cares, this is what i did:
15:45:11  <xyz> in the source code
15:46:07  <Tron> ever tried greping for "LevelLand"?
15:46:40  <xyz> yeah
15:46:58  <xyz> but it war at about 1 oclock
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15:47:00  <xyz> :P
15:47:34  <xyz> got it
15:47:36  <xyz> thx
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15:57:29  <peter1138> pants, i didn't turn the AI off :/
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17:20:53  *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
17:21:27  <Sacro> Bjaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarni!
17:22:41  <peter1138> Bjarni: fancy fixing (one of) the replace window bugs?
17:30:40  <Bjarni> maybe
17:30:46  <Bjarni> what's in it for me? :)
17:31:34  <peter1138> the prestige of fixing a bug
17:32:03  <Bjarni> cool
17:32:07  <Bjarni> what is the bug?
17:33:47  <Bjarni> btw I plan on rewriting parts of that window, but I will finish the build window first
17:34:03  <peter1138> for non-rail vehicles, if you have nothing selected in the left window, it doesn't draw anything
17:34:27  <Bjarni> ahh that
17:34:41  <Bjarni> not urgent and I will deal with it when rewriting it
17:34:45  <peter1138> cos it checks for invalid vehicle in the wrong place
17:35:04  <Bjarni> the current code is messy, so instead of patching it, the result will be much better with a real rewrite
17:38:08  <Naksu> when did peter1138 get ops?
17:38:20  <Naksu> we're all doomed :(
17:38:58  <Bjarni> yeah
17:39:06  <Bjarni> but it's not because of peter1138
17:41:13  <XeryusTC> hmm, new doomsday theory? :)
17:43:38  <Bjarni> it's not new
17:43:42  <Bjarni> it's the nuclear bomb
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17:46:12  <Bjarni> also Sacro found this channel
17:46:36  <Sacro> no he didnt
17:46:44  <Sacro> the channel found him
17:46:56  <Bjarni> you live in USSR?
17:47:13  <Sacro> not to my knowledge
17:47:20  * Sacro drinks vodka and plays tetris
17:47:23  <Bjarni> then you found the channel
17:47:50  <Sacro> hmm, i like vodka and tetris, and my stepmum speaks russian... now im confused
17:48:03  <Sacro> also, i nearly got hit by a skoda earlier
17:48:31  <peter1138> good ol' german engineering
17:49:18  <Sacro> peter1138: shame about the driver
17:49:26  <Sacro> and i thought skoda where more eastern than that
17:49:36  <XeryusTC> isn't skoda sweedish?
17:49:38  <Bjarni> it's a DDR vehicle
17:49:45  <Bjarni> isn't it?
17:49:53  <Sacro> ?koda, in Czech language literally meaning "damage"
17:49:59  <Sacro> makes sense...
17:50:13  <Bjarni> XeryusTC: Volvo and Saab are Swedish, but not Skoda
17:50:23  <XeryusTC> hmm
17:50:24  <Sacro> XeryusTC: nope, not even close
17:50:29  <XeryusTC> my memory is failing then :(
17:50:48  <XeryusTC> but i still know this:
17:50:52  <Sacro> they are bohemiam
17:50:54  <XeryusTC> ferrari is from switserland!
17:51:01  <glx> non
17:51:04  <Bjarni> lol
17:51:39  <Bjarni> next he will tell us that General Motors is from Brazil xD
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17:52:02  <XeryusTC> Bjarni: it's from Mexico, everyone knows that...
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17:52:17  <Bjarni> no, they just use Mexican workers
17:52:37  <XeryusTC> oh
17:52:43  <XeryusTC> stupid multi nationals :(
17:52:50  * XeryusTC turns communist
17:53:14  * Bjarni shoots XeryusTC
17:53:22  <Sacro> :o another .nl
17:53:23  <Bjarni> I have to protect my property
17:53:30  <peter1138> Sacro: they're all based on volkswagen stuff these days
17:53:48  <Sacro> peter1138: what? the netherlandish?
17:53:56  <peter1138> skodas :P
17:54:07  <Sacro> ah...
17:54:15  <XeryusTC> everything is volkswagen nowadyas
17:54:20  <XeryusTC> nowadays*
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17:55:46  <smeding> blip!
17:56:04  <smeding> lots of Dutchies here
17:56:36  <XeryusTC> yes! invasion!
17:56:43  <XeryusTC> we will conquer you all!
17:57:12  <XeryusTC> or just p*ss the guy in charge off :P
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18:00:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... how to teach the thing to stop small trains in the middle of the station...
18:01:30  <peter1138> easy
18:01:48  <Sacro> place carrige length markers
18:12:19  <LSky`> could anyone tell me why 4LVw are not working in the nigthlies , miniINs
18:12:28  <LSky`> at least that is what it looks like
18:13:12  <glx> LSky`: not all newgrf are working in openttd
18:13:31  <LSky`> so does this specific one not work in openttd?
18:16:01  <peter1138> hmm
18:16:09  <peter1138> it did do
18:18:35  <LSky`> hmmm
18:18:37  <peter1138> oh
18:18:52  <peter1138> just our ttdp version info is too old for it
18:19:20  <LSky`> so it will not work?
18:19:39  <Sacro> peter1138: fix it fix it fix it
18:19:47  <peter1138> but 4LVw sucks ;p
18:19:59  <LSky`> well
18:20:04  <LSky`> seeing as hovs set isnt finish
18:20:11  <LSky`> i need replacements for busses and trucks
18:20:13  <Sacro> anythig that isnt pikkabirds sucks
18:21:58  *** LSky` [] has quit [Quit: [ HIX-Script v2.2 ]:::[ Download from ]:::[ ]:::[]
18:22:14  <peter1138> hmm
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18:23:42  <peter1138> need to fix the string handling too
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18:40:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... i found a piece of code that calculates how a train should break when entering a station, but none that decides where to stop the train
18:40:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> and start loading
18:41:58  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: dont you mean brake?
18:42:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah
18:42:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> stupid language :p
18:42:29  <Sacro> is the stupid americans that trash it
18:43:23  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r6995 /trunk/ (newgrf.c newgrf_text.c): - Codechange: NewGRF; strip bit 7 of the language ID earlier and handle handle a language ID of 0x7F as the preferred default language.
18:49:33  <peter1138> LSky`: there you go ;p
18:49:43  <peter1138> try not to complain about the buses that take oil though ;)
18:50:38  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r6996 /trunk/newgrf.c: - Codechange: Pretend to be the current version of TTDPatch. This value doesn't anything to us as we don't follow TTDPatch's development timeline...
18:51:00  <ln->
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19:16:28  <peter1138> o_O
19:16:32  <peter1138>
19:16:50  <glx> hmm?
19:17:15  <peter1138> silly graphics ;p
19:17:26  <hylje> :o
19:17:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> i knew i had a reason why i hated those... :p
19:18:13  <smeding> hahaha.
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19:54:10  <peter1138> poo
19:54:29  <peter1138> can't have ukrs, av8, 4lv & newstats at the same time ;(
20:00:53  <Sacro> peter1138: i have here...
20:04:36  <peter1138> hmm
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20:57:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... can anyone tell me, if what i am doing here is even remotely sensible?
20:58:22  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: what are you trying to do
20:58:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> let trains stop in the middle of the platform
20:58:47  <Sacro> which is needed because... /
20:58:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> it looks like that does the job
20:58:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> because it looks nicer
20:59:05  <Sacro> hmmm.... true
20:59:18  <Sacro> would it allow split platforms with signals/crossovers in it?
20:59:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't think so
21:01:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> the main formula i used here is: ahead + length/2 == behind - length/2, which denotes that the train is now exactly in the middle of the station
21:01:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> then some adjustments for integer calculations
21:02:10  <ln-> what if i claimed that e.g. 4 trains can stop simultaneously on a station with only two tracks?
21:02:19  <ln-> and load/unload.
21:02:34  <Sacro> !calc 524288/2
21:02:35  <_42_> Sacro: 262144.0000000000;
21:02:44  <Sacro> ooh, thats accurate
21:02:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> ln-: i know how you can do that ;)
21:03:15  <ln-> ok :)
21:03:32  <ln-> hmm, where did it get .000000000 from?
21:03:58  <Sacro> !calc (10/3)*3
21:03:59  <_42_> Sacro: 9.9999999999;
21:04:09  <Sacro> stupid thing
21:04:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> it is not stupid, it does exactly what you told it to do
21:04:39  <Sacro> but it got it wrong :(
21:04:42  <Sacro> 3/3 = 1
21:04:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> which is just not always what you wanted it to do
21:04:45  <Sacro> *10 = 10
21:05:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> but you did not tell it to calculate (3/3)*10
21:05:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> but (10/3)*3
21:05:11  <Sacro> !calc sqrt(-1)
21:05:11  <_42_> Sacro: Runtime error (func=(main), adr=4): Square root of a negative number;
21:05:51  <peter1138> !calc my_life_expectancy
21:05:53  <_42_> peter1138: 0;
21:05:56  <peter1138> :(
21:05:56  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: but (a/b)*c = (b/c)*a
21:06:08  <ln-> !calc quit
21:06:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> Sacro: not with floating point logic
21:06:09  <_42_> ln-: no value returned
21:06:09  <Sacro> peter1138: quick, start the server
21:06:19  <peter1138> quick?
21:06:29  <peter1138> still compiling :/
21:06:41  <Sacro> ooh fireworks
21:06:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> the associative law does not hold with floats
21:07:06  <Sacro> doesnt it?
21:07:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> which is exactly why such optimisations are not allowed in compilers
21:07:15  <ln-> it doesn't.
21:07:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, obviously it doesn't, you gave the proof above ;)
21:08:02  <ln-> and in general, applying maths directly to programming can give undesired results.
21:08:13  *** TinoM| [] has joined #openttd
21:08:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, even though formulas would be correct in analysis, they can have lots of numeric side-effects
21:09:06  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-83-100-150-161.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:09:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> oooh, we scared him off ;)
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21:10:19  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-83-100-150-161.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
21:10:34  <ln-> e.g. even though expression a = (-1)^n * b  is a nice way to change signedness as function of n, doing the same with  a = pow(-1, n) * b;  can be surprisingly slow.
21:11:21  <Sacro> hmm
21:11:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> example: you have the formula (a+b)/(a^2-b^2), and the formula (a-b)
21:11:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> they are both analytically identical
21:11:54  <Sacro> yup
21:12:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> but if a and b are very close, the first one can easily give you divide by zero
21:12:21  <Sacro> true
21:12:44  <ln-> divide by zero is not a problem with floating points.
21:13:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, not a runtime-error type of problem
21:13:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> but a useful-result type of problem
21:13:31  <ln-> i.e. it won't crash the program, but the result is not very useful.
21:14:50  <peter1138> heh
21:14:55  <peter1138> a=2.1;b=2.9;
21:15:03  <peter1138> (a+b)/(a^2-b^2) -> -1.25
21:15:11  <peter1138> (a-b) -> -0.8
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21:15:25  <Sacro> o_O
21:15:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> !calc 2.1^2-2.9^2
21:15:37  *** TinoM [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:15:37  <_42_> Eddi|zuHause2: -4.00;
21:15:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> i meant 1/(a-b)
21:15:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> of course
21:16:02  *** TinoM| [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
21:16:29  <peter1138> of course
21:16:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> but that was not the point ;)
21:16:30  <peter1138> ;p
21:18:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... i have no vehicles of full 8 pixel length, to test some edge-cases...
21:19:24  <peter1138> Sacro: finally ;)
21:20:54  <Sacro> peter1138: compilied?
21:21:05  <peter1138> running
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21:25:23  <peter1138> hmm, messages have changed
21:25:55  <peter1138> that'll mess up the autopilot o_O
21:28:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> now i need switching yards where i can change to electric engines on hilly parts of the route...
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21:35:05  <Eddi|zuHause2>├╝cken.png <- it really works :)
21:36:32  *** Zr40 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:38:23  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: the umlauts dont though
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21:39:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm...
21:39:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> bad
21:39:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> <- better ;)
21:40:24  <Sacro> ooh, clever
21:45:18  <LSky`> sweet peter1138 , long vehicles work now?
21:45:23  <peter1138> yeah
21:45:28  <peter1138> mostly
21:47:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> "mostly" == "they load" ;)
21:48:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> (and then silently fail ;))
21:49:29  <LSky`> but not with ukrs etc :(
21:49:40  <LSky`> that pretty much makes it useless again :\
21:52:22  <peter1138> not with ukrs? why not?
21:56:20  <Wolf01> gn
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22:08:36  <CIA-1> maedhros * r6997 /branches/newhouses/ (newgrf.c town_cmd.c): [NewHouses] -Codechange: Clear the _house_specs array and reset the house offset in ResetNewGRFData().
22:10:51  <CIA-1> glx * r6998 /branches/MiniIN/genworld_gui.c: [MiniIN] -Fix: enable snowline setting for temperate in land generation window
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22:25:50  <CIA-1> maedhros * r6999 /branches/newhouses/town_cmd.c: [NewHouses] -Fix (r6856): Towns should also not be able to remove "protected" buildings.
22:28:05  <Ailure> MUDSLIDE!
22:29:15  <peter1138> sandbox! :D
22:30:42  <Ailure> always amusing to see the old AI at work
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22:31:25  <peter1138> never!
22:31:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have to second peter1138 there...
22:32:01  <Ailure> Gonna do a expriment with the old AI
22:32:07  <Ailure> I make some simple coal line so I survive
22:32:14  <glx> Ailure: old AI is only good for bug finding
22:32:15  <Ailure> then let the game run on it's own for 100 years
22:32:28  <Ailure> things like
22:32:33  <Ailure> realistic acceleration hurts the old AI
22:33:33  <Ailure> I see the AI as obstacles
22:33:36  <Ailure> not opponents :p
22:34:17  <Ailure> I usually play with the beta AI sometimes, but it magically stops working after a few years.
22:34:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> the ai neither makes for good obstacles nor opponents
22:34:37  <Ailure> Meh it adds challange D:
22:34:43  <Ailure> even if I wind up buying up a few companies
22:34:48  <Ailure> becuse their railroad happens to be in the way
22:34:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's an alpha ai
22:34:59  <Ailure> ah that's true
22:35:03  <Ailure> yeah alpha
22:35:29  <Sacro> multiplayer is so much better
22:35:40  <peter1138> heh
22:35:44  <peter1138> well the ai should at least work
22:36:19  <Sacro> KUDr_wrk: ping
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22:36:56  <KUDr> ?
22:37:19  <Sacro> RIGHT, WHO COMMITTED THAT STUPID "train is lost when pathfinder cant navigate one of my junctions" patch
22:37:28  <KUDr> me
22:37:32  <Sacro> KUDr: is it possible to set YAPF to avoid waypoints if possible?
22:37:50  <peter1138> train is lost when train is lost
22:37:53  <KUDr> don't understand
22:37:56  <Sacro> peter1138: yes.. but its not lost
22:38:00  <Sacro> its just stupid
22:38:08  <KUDr> heh
22:38:11  <peter1138> it couldn't pathfind == it's lost
22:38:20  <KUDr> it is NOT stupid
22:38:22  <Sacro> KUDr: i have a junction, with 2 routes, and i want all other trains to go the 3rd, but i havent the space to add another waypoint
22:38:39  <Sacro> peter1138: they are getting confused leaving canway woods
22:38:55  <KUDr> so you got message
22:38:59  <KUDr> it is correct
22:39:08  <Sacro> KUDr: ive added a waypoint on the exit, but thats not done until it leaves, by which time its on the wrong line
22:39:12  <KUDr> disable the message if you have messy network
22:39:57  <Sacro> KUDr: is it possible to add a yapf.waypoint.penalty?
22:40:09  <Sacro> so that unless a train is specifically told to go through, it wont?
22:40:16  <KUDr> don't think so just now
22:40:35  <KUDr> try small station
22:40:43  <KUDr> this has penalty
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22:41:47  <KUDr> if thies "stupid" message annoys you with your "correct" network then just disable it
22:42:13  <peter1138> actually there is one bug with it
22:42:19  <peter1138> other players see the message
22:42:33  <KUDr> it sounds better
22:42:39  <KUDr> so i have work
22:42:51  <peter1138> but i only see one "lost" message for sacro
22:42:55  <KUDr> will look at it tomorrow
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22:44:25  <Ailure> hmm
22:44:25  <Ailure> haha
22:44:34  <Ailure> I'm getting train is lost errors in the latest nightly
22:44:42  <Ailure> ...for trains owned by the AI
22:45:10  <KUDr> Failure: it is my bug
22:45:16  <KUDr> i'll fix it
22:45:44  <Sacro> Ailure: your 2 minutes too late
22:45:46  <peter1138> hehe
22:45:51  <peter1138> pulsating landscape
22:45:54  <peter1138> lovely ai
22:46:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> how can ai trains get lost?
22:46:33  <Ailure> [00:42] <peter1138> actually there is one bug with it
22:46:33  <Ailure> [00:42] <peter1138> other players see the message
22:46:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> they only go back and forth
22:46:34  <Ailure> ah
22:46:36  <Ailure> missed that
22:46:38  <Ailure> haha well
22:46:40  <Ailure> I took a screenshot
22:46:43  <Ailure> I show you xD
22:47:03  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause2: not so, the ai is fucked
22:47:05  <XeryusTC> Eddi|zuHause2: AI makes 90 degrees, some players forbid trains to use 90 degree turns...
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22:48:16  <Sacro> i miss PBS :(
22:48:20  <Ailure> tat's not the case
22:48:29  <Ailure> I'm trying to make this game as easy for the AI as possible
22:48:33  <Ailure> and it still manages to fuck up
22:48:57  <Ailure>,%2013th%20Jan%201953.png
22:49:01  <XeryusTC> it always does
22:49:12  <peter1138> no, it used to at least work
22:49:19  <Ailure> yeah
22:49:22  <Ailure> I don't recall it
22:49:24  <Ailure> being this screwy
22:49:40  <Ailure> it dosen't demolish stuff correctly now
22:49:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> wtf?
22:49:45  <Ailure> leading to random stuff being left around
22:49:59  <XeryusTC> i made an AI for ottd.gpmi once which worked :)
22:50:02  <Ailure> trains left running in and out from depots
22:50:04  <XeryusTC> but that were only RVs
22:50:12  <Ailure> becuse the AI demolished all the tracks
22:50:15  <Ailure> but didn't remove the trains
22:50:18  <Ailure> which are still running
22:50:22  <peter1138> hmm, the new ai for rvs appears to work
22:50:43  * peter1138 ponders going back to find the regressions
22:50:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't think i ever played TTD with AI
22:51:05  <Ailure> well
22:51:11  <Ailure> it's amusing to see their landscaping
22:51:18  <Ailure> it's pulsating in a relaxing way
22:51:32  <Ailure> but it dosen't seem to have any logic behind it
22:51:41  <Ailure> it just does it randomly
22:51:45  <Ailure> until the AI think it fits
22:52:08  <Ailure> I notice that it also likes to make short trains to
22:52:23  <Ailure> leading to alot of trains with two wagons
22:52:40  <peter1138> it's always done that :)
22:52:53  <Ailure> yeah, but it's more easily noticeable
22:53:02  <Ailure> when I'm used to making trains with 20 wagons later on in the game :P
22:53:27  <peter1138> clearly the new ai works
22:53:28  <Ailure> Usually for goods transportation on seperate maglev tracks too
22:53:30  <peter1138> hmm
22:53:36  <Ailure> if i'm using UKRS
22:53:41  <peter1138> or does it
22:53:52  <peter1138> no, it doesn't
22:54:18  <peter1138> it seems to be an order problem
22:56:25  <peter1138> hmmmm
22:56:47  <Ailure> well
22:56:57  <Ailure> seems like the AI is unable to get ride of old vehicles when it trashes a line
22:57:01  <Ailure> just saw a aircraft crashing xD
22:57:11  <Ailure> "running out of fuel"
22:57:16  <Ailure> happens when they have no orders in air I belive
22:57:26  <peter1138> heh
22:57:26  <Ailure> or the orders they have is invalid
22:58:43  <peter1138> ok, my problem was probably cos i had 4lv loaded
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22:58:52  <peter1138> the rvs the ai uses are hardcoded
22:59:19  <peter1138> so it'll build them without regard to cargo type
22:59:27  <peter1138> and of course, a bus can't be sent to a truck stop
22:59:33  <peter1138> suppose i better fix that
23:00:08  <Ailure> haha
23:00:16  <Ailure> the AI already have built a extenstive road network over the map
23:00:40  <Ailure> whole east map is covered by a road network built by all AI companies
23:01:42  <Ailure> haha
23:01:52  <Ailure> the power plant animation looks bugged
23:01:56  <Ailure> kinda neat though
23:02:15  <peter1138> hmm?
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23:02:31  <Ailure> There's two transformators on a power plant in this game
23:02:39  <Ailure> one is animating all the time rather fast
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23:02:44  <Ailure> the other animates too, but very slow
23:08:58  <peter1138> hmm
23:09:14  <peter1138> must've been broken for a long time
23:09:19  <peter1138> 5300 doesn't do much
23:10:49  <peter1138> ooh, interesting
23:10:51  <hylje> :o
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23:11:24  <Ailure> heh
23:11:32  <Ailure> just saw yet another line where the AI did everything right
23:11:36  <Ailure> almost
23:11:39  <hylje> :o
23:11:41  <Ailure> apart from removing the train itself
23:11:49  <Ailure> so it's in the depot now but running back and forth
23:12:33  <Bjarni> speaking of poor AI
23:12:33  <Bjarni>
23:12:36  <Ailure> if AI's were allowed to sell trains without having to put them in depots
23:12:41  <Ailure> they might not put themself in deadlocks as often
23:12:53  <Ailure> hahaha
23:12:56  <Bjarni> notice that none of those stations are able to build tracks away from that location
23:12:59  <Ailure> nice screenshot
23:13:08  <Bjarni> the yellow one is blocked by the industries
23:14:58  <Bjarni> I was testing something else (other player windows or something) and the AI did this while I browsed windows. I could not help making a screenshot xD
23:15:21  <Ailure> thank god AI's can't delete industries
23:15:30  <Ailure> or they wind up deleting the industry they're going to use
23:15:33  <Bjarni> I didn't actual play that game. My own stuff was as silly as the AI stuff because it was only for testing stuff
23:16:28  * Ailure gives all AI players alot of money and pays of their loan
23:16:55  <XeryusTC> heh, on the topic of some (more) proper AI:
23:16:59  <Bjarni> On the fact that he is voted "the sexiest man in Denmark" over and over: "I'd rather be voted 'the sexiest man in Denmark' than 'the ugliest man in Denmark'." <-- now that's a good quote :D
23:17:02  <Ailure> haha
23:17:06  <Ailure> they pay back the loan automatically
23:17:09  <Ailure> as soon they get the money
23:17:15  <Ailure> lesse what they do with that money
23:17:18  <XeryusTC> downloading the third picture is futile btw ;)
23:18:17  <Ailure> hahaha
23:18:25  <Ailure> insane stupid expansion strategy
23:18:41  <Ailure> slowing down the game a bit even for me
23:18:52  <Ailure> though just a little bit
23:18:57  <Ailure> Running the game in constant fast forward
23:19:07  <Ailure> and it's down to normal speed
23:19:57  <Ailure> gonna be intresting what the AI would do with that amount of money
23:24:51  <glx> <Ailure> thank god AI's can't delete industries <-- they can if you enable "magic dynamite"
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23:32:06  <Sacro> can someone add a patch to autoremove companies where someone desyncs instantly
23:37:40  <Ailure> geez
23:37:46  <Ailure> the AI sees depots as straight roads too
23:37:50  <Ailure> road depots
23:38:23  <Ailure> and well
23:38:49  <Ailure> it makes sense to at least autoremove companies who hadn't built anything at least
23:39:05  <Ailure> and there's no players or AI controlling it.
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23:44:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> Sacro: well, the proper solution would be to prevent such people from joining in the first place
23:44:44  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: true
23:45:23  <peter1138> woah , shit
23:45:25  <peter1138> 00:47
23:45:27  <peter1138> nini
23:45:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> your clock is still 2 minutes early ;)
23:47:05  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7000 /trunk/ (dock_gui.c main_gui.c misc_gui.c rail_gui.c terraform_gui.c):
23:47:05  <CIA-1> -Fix: Incorrect use of e-> when the event is a 'place'. This didn't cause any
23:47:05  <CIA-1>  bugs so far because the 'click' element was at the same position in the union for both
23:47:05  <CIA-1>  events.
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