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Log for #openttd on 7th November 2006:
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00:01:40  <MaulingMonkey_iBook> hmm... actually, it seems the codeset whining just is something game related
00:02:31  <Darkvater> Eddi|zuHause: ehm, taht has worked for ages
00:02:48  <Darkvater> at least if you compile with iconv
00:02:56  <Darkvater> I know, because I have written it myself
00:03:03  <Eddi|zuHause> it has not for me a few days ago
00:03:51  <Darkvater> but I won't bootmy linux machine atthe moment just to prove you wrong
00:04:27  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... what would be the correct thing to put in that it compiles with iconv?
00:04:45  <Darkvater> WITH_ICONV
00:04:50  <Darkvater> check ./configure --help
00:05:39  <Darkvater> ./configure --with_iconv I belive it was
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00:15:06  <UnderBuilder> erm.... too bad jez isn't here, else a flamewar should have started :(
00:16:16  <UnderBuilder> but there is a jezral... >:]
00:16:49  <Jezral> Not the same...
00:16:59  <UnderBuilder> ouch...
00:18:46  <UnderBuilder> hmmm I think that ottd is each time less user-friendly
00:19:11  <UnderBuilder> I agree with Jez... Revolution!
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00:20:05  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, that really seems to have fixed it ;)
00:20:25  <Eddi|zuHause> but now it has trouble converting the old filenames ;)
00:20:47  <Darkvater> he, that was never the intention :)
00:21:08  <Eddi|zuHause> i know ;)
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00:32:37  <Sacro> Subsidize Industry idea <- ACK, IZE
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00:42:59  <Born_Acorn> I wonder if orudge could ban jez now. Saying Darkvater sucks break at least a few rules.  :p
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00:44:58  <meatwad> What is openttd?
00:45:17  <meatwad> I looked at the site and was like this looks like a cross between roller coaster tycoon and sim city
00:45:55  <glx> it's a clone of TTD
00:46:10  <Born_Acorn> and TTD came before Rollercoaster Tycoon and is nothing like SimCity.
00:46:50  <meatwad> how does the multiplayer work?
00:51:31  <Naksu> it just does
00:53:46  <Born_Acorn> However, TTD was made by Chris Sawyer, who made RollerCoaster Tycoon!
00:53:54  <Born_Acorn> but it's still nothing like SimCity.
00:54:34  <Born_Acorn> In fact, some GUI graphics and most GUI elements were carried over to RollerCoaster Tycoon!
00:54:35  <Born_Acorn> but it's still nothing like SimCity.
00:55:12  <_Ben> Born_Acorn: You dislike sim city? (and Hi)
00:55:25  <Born_Acorn> I like SimCity. :p
00:55:35  <Born_Acorn> In fact, RollerCoaster Tycoon was originally going become Transport Tycoon 2, but Chris Sawyer became obsessed with RollerCoasters after he made the basic engine!
00:56:05  <Naksu> indeed
00:56:24  <Born_Acorn> There's a screenshot somewhere of what the game looked like when it was going to be TT2
00:56:37  <Born_Acorn> (minus any graphics)
00:56:41  <Naksu> but well
00:56:43  <Born_Acorn> except the water.
00:56:58  <Naksu> rollercoaster tycoon 2 is the least fun i've had gaming, ever
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01:04:04  <MaulingMonkey_iBook> Naksu:  Consider yourself lucky, then.  There's been far worse.
01:04:30  <kbrooks> uh. i have this idea
01:04:43  <kbrooks> lets see...
01:04:51  <kbrooks> well, ii have a question
01:05:07  <kbrooks> say i have 2 coal mines
01:05:11  <_Ben> Born_Acorn: Would you (if you want), be able to add some suggested veicles to the wiki, for modelling for the 32bpp.  Cause the suggested trains is a very helpful page.  I started on a truck the other night, and then a bus, and relised i dont see them enough to no what they look like, and dont have a clue what models to base them on...
01:05:38  <kbrooks> one (lets call it good) has incredible production
01:05:46  <Naksu> MaulingMonkey_iBook: bad games tend to be so bad they're funny
01:05:53  <Naksu> rollercoaster tycoon 2 isnt
01:05:55  <kbrooks> the other (lets call it bad) has sucky production
01:05:58  <Naksu> it's just empty and mediocre
01:06:00  <kbrooks> so
01:06:05  <MaulingMonkey_iBook> Wait, I'm thinking of RCT1
01:06:09  <MaulingMonkey_iBook> I didn't actually play RCT2
01:06:11  <kbrooks> how can these two be balanced?
01:06:13  <kbrooks> easy.
01:06:31  <kbrooks> by transporting coal from good to bad
01:06:34  <kbrooks> and back
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01:06:38  <Born_Acorn> _Ben, unfortunately, the vehicles aren't based on real ones like the Trains and Planes are.
01:06:45  <Naksu> MaulingMonkey_iBook: rct2 is exactly like rct1 except that research, level objectives have been removed
01:06:50  <Born_Acorn> Road Vehicles are just generic makes.
01:06:54  <Naksu> and the colours have been toned down
01:07:03  <kbrooks> so that each of them are balanced
01:07:03  <MaulingMonkey_iBook> Oh.  Well I can see that sucking :D
01:07:05  <kbrooks> so..
01:07:08  <Naksu> it's like
01:07:18  <MaulingMonkey_iBook> kbrooks:  I'm not sure why you'd want to "balance" them though.
01:07:18  <Born_Acorn> Like Bedford and Ford.
01:07:22  <Naksu> you're in charge of the amusement park from hell
01:07:36  <Born_Acorn> I think Leyland featured in TTO
01:07:39  <kbrooks> MaulingMonkey_iBook, because i have a power station
01:07:54  <_Ben> Born_Acorn: I know nothing of common models from the past.  the name bedford came to mind, but i searched for that and theres millions
01:07:58  <kbrooks> there are 3 trains delivering coal
01:08:26  <Born_Acorn> _Ben, yeah, that isn't helpful
01:08:45  <kbrooks> i dont want to throw one train out because it was unprofitable due to the amount of coal that "bad" generated
01:08:56  <Naksu> MaulingMonkey_iBook: if i was looking for a bad game http://www.somethingawful.com/index.php?a=38 could be the worst :D
01:09:56  <glx> kbrooks: try transfer from good to bad
01:10:14  <Born_Acorn> I am certain of the Leyland Leopard bus is the "Hereford Lion" bus
01:10:25  <kbrooks> glx: thats all? wow.
01:10:36  <izhirahider> if RCT was open source, now that would be something
01:10:54  <Eddi|zuHause> actually, there was a 'Leyland Lion Bus' in the original TT
01:11:04  <_Ben> Born: I've searched for that model, and it appears to be hairy, and have large teeth
01:11:39  <Born_Acorn> heehee
01:11:52  <Eddi|zuHause> as well as a 'Leyland Leopard Bus', i believe
01:12:11  <Born_Acorn> Eddi|zuHause. doesn't help that there was many Leyland Lions
01:12:22  <Born_Acorn> What's the design date?
01:12:41  <_Ben> When they named these viecles, they dilliberatly intended to make it inposible for me to search for them
01:13:02  <Born_Acorn> 1964, it seems
01:13:08  <Eddi|zuHause> i think the Lion bus was available before 1930
01:13:25  <kbrooks> how do i list all the companies?
01:13:39  <kbrooks> in console
01:13:57  <Eddi|zuHause> players?
01:14:14  <Born_Acorn> The Hereford Leopard Bus is the "1964 Leyland Leopard"
01:15:01  <Born_Acorn> Leyland Lion/MPS Regal : http://www.lvvs.freeserve.co.uk/images/tf818(2).jpg
01:15:05  <_Ben> Im not too fussed what examples are chosen, but I don't want to model one, and then be told it was intended to be x viecle
01:15:58  <Born_Acorn> http://www.lvvs.freeserve.co.uk/images/tf818(2).jpg is the 1930 Leyland Lion from TTO.
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01:17:31  <Born_Acorn> It doesn't help that they gave all the vehicles silly names in TTD. :p
01:18:14  <Eddi|zuHause> you could try the "original vehicle names" language
01:18:21  <_Ben> People seem to have way less interest in road viechles also, So unlike trains the refernce pictures arnt plentiful
01:18:39  <Eddi|zuHause> i think the names got changed with the mars/world editor expansion
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01:19:02  <Born_Acorn> I agree, we should just use any vehicle from the time period of that make
01:20:26  <Born_Acorn> http://graphics.bornacorn.com/roadvehicle.png
01:20:51  <Born_Acorn> The "futuristic" ones are made up anyway.
01:21:45  <_Ben> the oldest ones look quite american.  Reminds me of one in forestgump
01:22:00  <Born_Acorn> The fictional makes are "DW, Chippy, Kelling, Perry, Goss, Foster, Moreland"
01:22:09  <Born_Acorn> So go mad with what they look like. :p
01:22:23  <_Ben> hmm, dang, i don't really no
01:22:36  <Born_Acorn> The rest are UK/European manufacturers.
01:23:21  <Born_Acorn> Some may be tricky though :/
01:23:41  <Born_Acorn> Like, the AEC Mail Truck returns one picture, which doesn't work anymore. http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=tbn:Pv1szLBZhppn0M:http://img.2dehands.nl/f/normal/8257290.gif
01:24:21  <_Ben> hmm, everytime i search the net for images I think it would be quicker just to walk until i find something to take a photo of an use
01:24:35  <Born_Acorn> http://www.steamengine.com.au/events/reports/hcvc-truck-show-2003/pics/aec-regal-ex-mmtb-bus.jpg <-- But the AEC Regal Bus looks like this.
01:25:21  <Born_Acorn> Some are a bit vague
01:25:31  <Born_Acorn> like "Volvo Bus" returns hundreds of hits. :p
01:26:47  <_Ben> the first bus has a very rounded front and wheel arches like this http://www.buchard.ch/Historique_Vehicules/Old_bus_Roulant_W.jpg
01:27:42  <Born_Acorn> Iron Ore, coal and other similar trucks look like this : http://www.motormarkltd.com/images/tippers.gif
01:28:07  <_Ben> contempory models should be a lot easier to find
01:28:12  <Born_Acorn> I'll see if I can do another wiki page tomorrow
01:28:21  <Born_Acorn> like I did with the Trains
01:28:39  <_Ben> That will be really really helpful
01:29:00  <Born_Acorn> Will need a bit more research though.
01:29:10  <Born_Acorn> (SInce the trains were so already easily named)
01:29:29  <_Ben> yeah, where planes also?
01:29:58  <Born_Acorn> Yeah, planes are pretty self explanatory with the original vehicle name language
01:30:12  <Born_Acorn> Shame Crazy Vaclav had to disappear with them. :(
01:30:27  <_Ben> actually i keep poking him and hes made some awesum stuff today
01:30:49  <_Ben> we (mostly him) sorted the a380 earlier, its huge
01:31:10  <Born_Acorn> :O
01:31:45  <Born_Acorn> When the storage system gets online, they can be uploaded, (since he said he had so much)
01:32:14  <Born_Acorn> I need sleep now though.
01:32:16  <Born_Acorn> Night night.
01:32:20  <_Ben> I think as long as I persitently provoke him, he should stay on track and submitted it to the forum at some point, but he is too self critical
01:33:58  <kbrooks> ok, i have a question
01:34:26  <Sacro> night ladies
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07:25:39  <peter1138> ow
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07:36:03  <peter1138> moring
07:36:06  <peter1138> er
07:36:08  <peter1138> morning
07:36:12  <peter1138> i bit my tongue see :/
07:36:20  <Tron> morning
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07:36:51  <Tron> Simutrans code is
07:36:54  <Tron> [ ] a mess
07:36:58  <Tron> [ ] an utter mess
07:37:06  <Tron> [X] you don't want to know, believe me
07:37:31  <Tron> and i thought OpenTTD code was bad
07:38:19  <peter1138> hmm
07:38:35  <peter1138> but don't they have objects and inheritence to keep it tidy?
07:38:48  <Tron> oh, these files end in .cc
07:38:55  <Tron> there is even the word "class" used
07:39:22  <Tron> but it's just C in .cc files with the word class
07:39:28  <Tron> ugly C i might add
07:39:42  <SpComb> char * in C++ code? :)
07:40:00  <Tron> SpComb: used for allocation of objects
07:40:17  <SpComb> well, generally using char* for stirngs
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07:40:30  <Tron> there's nothing wrong with ASCIIZ strings in C++, but using malloc and new char[] to create objects ...
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07:41:40  <Tron> i made the mistake to start a 2kx2k map in Simutrans
07:41:50  <Tron> my box nearly swapped to death
07:42:14  <Tron> it needs 10-20 times the memory OTTD used
07:42:22  <Tron> s/used/uses/
07:43:16  <SpComb> OpenTTD is pure C-style code?
07:43:48  <Tron> partially it has quite nice encapsulation and all the fluffy stuff
07:44:26  <Tron> technically you could say the map is an array of objects with virtual methods
07:44:50  <Tron> tough it's a custom implementation to save space and make it an value array, not a pointer array
07:45:18  <Tron> the "vtable" "pointer" is just 4 bits instead of 4 bytes
07:45:37  <PandaMojo> The map array scares me.
07:45:48  <Tron> and all objects are exactly 8 bytes big, so the array holds the actual objects, not pointers to the objects
07:46:46  <PandaMojo> I tried refactoring it directly into C++, but that was just nasty (even if I did get a few files "done" with C stubs wrapping around the map array).
07:47:07  <peter1138> ouch
07:47:11  <PandaMojo> If I try again, the first step will be just making it legal C++ syntax so I don't have to link against C++ code from the existing C stuff :P
07:47:14  <peter1138> scrolling in simutrans is still slow
07:47:35  <Tron> peter1138: Simutrans redraws the whole screen when scrolling. I guess that's the main factor
07:47:41  <SpComb> hehe
07:47:46  <peter1138> oh
07:47:50  <peter1138> that's silly
07:48:15  <Tron> PandaMojo: what's the problem? just derive subclasses for eacht tile type from struct Tile
07:48:26  <Tron> s/eacht/each/
07:48:51  <PandaMojo> Tron: It's mantaining the stubs instead of replacing their usage immediately that makes me emo.
07:49:05  <Tron> add accessor methods like the functions in the *_map.h files
07:49:19  <Tron> use static_cast<> to cast the generic struct Tile to a concrete subclass
07:49:42  <PandaMojo> Tron: I was trying to port the map array first.
07:49:51  <PandaMojo> (guess doing it from the other end would also be saner)
07:50:12  <PandaMojo> (but I think C --> Legal C++ Syntax --> Idiomatic C++ would be a saner path)
07:50:23  <Tron> i think this is the most feasible way to get "real" C++ objects from the Tiles
07:50:50  <Tron> what's not legal C++?
07:51:02  <Tron> casting the return type of malloc
07:51:03  <PandaMojo> Tron: Mainly a lot of implicit casts that were invalidated in C++
07:51:06  <peter1138> oops
07:51:07  <Tron> *think*
07:51:09  <PandaMojo> Enum especially.
07:51:13  <PandaMojo> *Enums
07:51:14  <peter1138> i crashed it :(
07:51:21  <PandaMojo> there's a shitload of Enum <=> int conversions
07:51:26  <PandaMojo> And Enum <=> Enum
07:51:29  <Tron> well, C++ has implicit conversions FROM enums TO ints
07:51:40  <Tron> the other way round should be correctly handled already
07:51:50  <Tron> because the *_map.h files are used in C++
07:52:08  <PandaMojo> The *_map.h files may be okay
07:52:27  <Tron> well, that's the stuff you want to touch
07:52:32  <PandaMojo> My stab was a few hundred revisions ago, the accessor stuff hadn't been merged into trunk
07:52:39  <PandaMojo> (at least not fully?)
07:52:42  <Tron> fixing all 150k LOC at once is ... insane
07:52:58  <PandaMojo> (I'm fairly in the dark when it comes to progressing through OpenTTD's codebase)
07:53:11  <PandaMojo> Bah, it's not *that* much.
07:53:46  <Tron> OTTD has about this amount LOC
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07:54:05  <PandaMojo> No, I mean, 150k is not *that* much :-)
07:54:22  <PandaMojo> Not that OpenTTD isn't 150k LOC
07:54:43  <Tron> depending on what you're trying to do 150k LOC *is* much
07:55:11  <PandaMojo> Well yeah, I wouldn't want to try to maintain 150k LOC of C++fied code in sync with trunk....
07:55:24  <PandaMojo> But for a single pass frozen translation, meh.
07:55:44  <SpComb> why do you even want to convert OpenTTD to C++?
07:56:07  <PandaMojo> SpComb: Because I have a hard time grokking C.
07:56:14  <PandaMojo> It's not my lingua natural per se.
07:56:44  <PandaMojo> I'm used to seeing all the interdependancies outlined by the language.
07:57:03  <Tron> omg
07:57:08  <Tron> a single tree is 20bytes
07:57:16  <peter1138> how?
07:57:19  <Tron> and that's /without/ the tile it is on
07:57:20  <SpComb> in simu?
07:57:25  <Tron> yes
07:58:30  <Tron> class baum_t (tree_t) is derived from ding_t (thing_t)
07:58:44  <Ailure> bah
07:58:50  <Ailure> I wish I could set vehicle breakdown on very low
07:58:58  <peter1138> ding_t
07:58:59  <peter1138> lol
07:59:02  <peter1138> ding ding!
07:59:04  <peter1138> sorry
07:59:11  <Tron> ding_t is 12 bytes for 3d coordinates, image, xoffset, yoffset, owner, flags and processing frequency
07:59:12  <peter1138> where's my medicine?
07:59:36  <peter1138> hmm, trees with owners
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07:59:45  <Tron> and baum_t adds 4bytes for the birthdate and 4bytes for a pointer to the tree type
08:00:00  <PandaMojo> Hey, I wouldn't mind it if I could tree up some purchaced land to look cool without the town rebuilding over it ;-)
08:00:02  <Tron> so on 64bit machines it is even 24bytes
08:01:11  <Tron> given that the usual memory allocator gives you multiples of 16bytes it's effectivly 32bytes
08:01:25  <Tron> plus somewhere is a pointer to this tree
08:01:55  <PandaMojo> Sounds rather inefficient :-P
08:02:08  <Tron> no wonder my poor box started to swap like mad when it tried a 2kx2k map
08:02:30  <Tron> i only have half a jiggabyte RAM
08:02:51  <PandaMojo> Ouch.
08:02:52  <SpComb> how does OpenTTD store trees?
08:02:58  <Tron> OTTD uses about 40mb on this kind of map
08:03:29  <Tron> SpComb: up to 4 trees in one struct Tile
08:03:44  <Tron> the Tile also contains the ground
08:05:35  <Tron> if it wouldn't hurt that much, i'd try to stab my eyes with a sharp tool so i wouldn't have to see it anymore
08:06:23  <peter1138> o_O
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08:15:47  <Prof_Frink> SpComb: In a log.
08:15:47  <Prof_Frink> (joke.popey.com)
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08:47:31  * peter1138 hmms at iconv
08:48:53  * Tron hmms at peter1138's hmming
08:49:45  * PandaMojo hmms trying to recall VS2005's "next error" key combo :3
08:54:43  <peter1138> i can add iconv support to strgen, but that leaves windows out in the cold
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09:08:50  <peter1138> so what's an equivalent way to convert latin15 to utf8 in windows...
09:10:16  <Tron> what's wrong with using iconv?
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09:14:53  <peter1138> i was under the impression it doesn't exist
09:14:54  <peter1138> hmm
09:14:57  <peter1138> now... why?
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09:20:40  <Darkvater> peter1138: multibytetowidechar
09:21:10  <Darkvater> eh.. nvm
09:21:33  <Darkvater> what do you want anyways with iconv on stregebn?
09:21:33  <Tron> it converts to UTF-16
09:23:41  <peter1138> if strgen gets iconv support then we don't have to convert all the langs to utf8
09:25:57  <Darkvater> peter1138: I'd rather have them in utf-8
09:26:09  <Darkvater> otherwise we don't have u" in hungarian
09:26:29  <Darkvater> Tron: yea :(...windows is so fucking stupid
09:27:10  <Darkvater> I haven't found a way yet to save filenames with u", short of going UNIOCDE and using woidechars
09:27:12  <Tron> Darkvater: then write it in UTF-8
09:27:26  <Tron> f.e. for german latin 9 is fine
09:27:59  <Darkvater> he
09:28:02  <Darkvater> hang on
09:28:33  <Darkvater> ewritning in utf8 gives me garbage
09:28:59  <Tron> wow, Simutrans matches about 61% of its malloc()s with free()s
09:29:16  <Tron> OTTD does it for 91%, that's not good either, but a lot better
09:29:29  <Darkvater> give us more juicy simtrans bits :)
09:30:07  <Tron> Darkvater: have you read the part about 32bytes per tree?
09:30:28  <Darkvater> birthdate? :)
09:31:57  <Darkvater> hmm why does it take so long to boot?
09:32:09  <Tron> what?
09:32:16  <Darkvater> my comp
09:32:52  <Tron> well, blame the guy who does maintanance on your box ... oh wait
09:33:05  <Darkvater> ah damn... one of my hd's is dying and needs checking
09:33:19  <Tron> uhoh
09:33:58  <Darkvater> Tron: http://darkvater.homeip.net/~tfarago/openttd/utf8_saving.png <<when I save utf8 files, the bottom two
09:34:56  <Tron> well, the conversion seems to fail
09:35:15  <Darkvater> I don't even convert them, just raw utf8 strings
09:35:16  <Tron> hey, i know this funny symbol in the paths!
09:35:29  <Tron> i've seen this \ replacement on japanese DOS
09:35:44  <Darkvater> ms mincho :)
09:35:56  <Tron> ?
09:36:11  <Darkvater> the font which does the Yen
09:36:13  <peter1138> stupid font?
09:36:23  <peter1138> or buggy code
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09:36:34  <peter1138> otoh, if tron's seen it before...
09:37:28  <Darkvater> well anyways, if I convert (utf8 to widechar and back to local codepage I lose u", o" etc..and just get ??? for the japanese chars
09:38:14  <Darkvater> the only solution I've found is to go (partially) unicode
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09:38:32  <Darkvater> but brb, some breakfast
09:38:43  <Zevensoft> what does iconv do
09:38:46  <Darkvater> http://darkvater.homeip.net/~tfarago/openttd/utf8_kana.png \o/
09:38:48  <Tron> well, windows filenames are stored in UTF-16
09:38:53  <Tron> you have to cope with that
09:39:12  <Zevensoft> mononoke hime transport?
09:39:30  <Zevensoft> princess mononoke has gotten hairy lately lol
09:39:35  <Tron> supporting japanese is no fault
09:39:51  <Tron> i heard 20-30% of the Simutrans users are japanese
09:40:01  <Zevensoft> dont forget a-train
09:40:06  <Zevensoft> big seller in japan
09:40:34  <peter1138> Zevensoft: iconv does character set translation
09:40:52  <Zevensoft> like code mappings?
09:41:08  <peter1138> Tron: so we just need to do UTF-8 / UTF-16 conversion
09:41:12  <peter1138> which is simple
09:41:36  <peter1138> relatively
09:41:53  <Tron> well, iconv is your friend (:
09:42:11  <Zevensoft> whats the windows equivalent
09:42:18  <Tron> and probably you have to mumble some Windows word to interpret the filenames as UTF-16 instead of CP1250
09:42:25  <Zevensoft> hrm
09:42:31  <Zevensoft> I've seen utf filenames
09:42:39  <Zevensoft> chinese ones no less
09:43:02  <Zevensoft> I think you need fontlink installed
09:43:18  <Zevensoft> its not like unix where everything is logical and works
09:43:31  <Zevensoft> its about tricking the OS into doing what you want lol
09:43:53  <Zevensoft> I have the registry file to enable kana in fonts
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09:44:37  <Prof_Frink> Zevensoft: Unix: It just *works*. Windows: It /just/ works.
09:44:45  <Zevensoft> lol nice one
09:45:24  <Zevensoft> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-Train
09:45:48  <Zevensoft> hrm theres an open source version
09:47:52  <peter1138> the graphics are quite nice
09:48:08  <peter1138> small and plain, but somehow it works
09:48:19  <Zevensoft> I liked its 3d mode
09:48:39  <Zevensoft> it would pause the game, and let you view the world from the drivers eye
09:51:04  <Zevensoft> although its tile system was completely different to ttdx, as its layer based
10:08:35  <Tron> layer based?
10:08:41  <Tron> i.e. the map was not 2d?
10:09:00  <Tron> OTTDs map is technically 2D, even if it has height levels
10:09:11  <Zevensoft> the map was 3d in a-train
10:09:20  <Zevensoft> x by y by 7 layers I think
10:09:36  <peter1138> hmm
10:09:39  <Tron> this explains the "entire memory card" part
10:09:40  <Zevensoft> 2 underground layers, and 4 above ground
10:09:57  <Zevensoft> also explains the bendy bridges part
10:11:22  <Tron> are there ingame shots?
10:12:24  <Darkvater> btw, I made a diff of ppcttd of whatever the guy calls it
10:12:25  <Darkvater> http://darkvater.homeip.net/~tfarago/openttd/openttd_ppc_r4451.zip
10:12:39  <Tron> A7 looks nice
10:12:54  <Darkvater> 85% of the changes are GUI (auot placement), some minor changes to windows and a GAPI/SDL driver
10:13:05  <Tron> anything of interest?
10:13:20  <Tron> last time i looked at it (many moons ago) there was nothing interesting
10:13:28  <Tron> and their graphical backend is a utter mess
10:13:42  <Tron> no wonder they have problems like whatnot with it
10:14:12  <Darkvater> hmm interest...no, not really..they did rename magic number -1 to WDP_AUTO :)
10:14:18  <blathijs> PPCTTD?
10:14:24  <Zevensoft> http://www.kohsuke.org/freetrain/screenshots/index.html
10:14:57  <Tron> http://www.a-7.jp/ <-- are the screenshots supposed to be clickable?
10:15:35  <Zevensoft> http://www.a-7.jp/screen.htm this page they are
10:15:51  <Tron> hm, i found exactly one big screenshot there
10:15:56  <Tron> and it was an explicit link
10:16:19  <Zevensoft> http://www.a-7.jp/photo/image_01.jpg
10:16:25  <Darkvater> blathijs: some guy made a conversion for ppc/zaurus, esoftinteractive or something
10:16:29  <Zevensoft> http://www.a-7.jp/photo/image_06.jpg
10:16:51  <Tron> thanks
10:17:28  <Zevensoft> the freight system is interesting
10:17:52  <Zevensoft> the freight trains haul shipping containers from a factory, to a yard
10:18:00  <Zevensoft> and you can see them in quantity
10:18:01  <Tron> well, it's all moonspeak to me (:
10:18:14  <blathijs> Darkvater: ah...
10:18:21  <peter1138> hmm
10:18:22  <Zevensoft> and as the town grows it uses up the containers
10:18:31  <Darkvater> probably gets a ton of donations
10:18:31  <peter1138> that's a different angle
10:18:37  <peter1138> looks nice
10:18:52  <Darkvater> for a GAPI driver and a few minor lines of change
10:18:53  <peter1138> vertigo :D
10:19:10  <peter1138> Darkvater: i tried implementing a GAPI driver ;(
10:19:16  <peter1138> i think
10:19:18  <peter1138> or something
10:19:23  <peter1138> i wanted it to be crosscompilable
10:19:32  <Darkvater> he also has an SDL driver
10:19:38  <Darkvater> we could use that
10:19:39  <peter1138> (so we can have nightles, heh)
10:19:45  <Darkvater> and an extmidi (for windows)
10:20:01  <peter1138> the pda/phone i've got is 640x480...
10:20:17  <Darkvater> really 85% of the diff is junk, either just GUI or just plain deleting lines that are not applicable to PDA's
10:20:21  <peter1138> yeah
10:20:35  <Darkvater> I tried adding support as well...but the emulator didn't want to play nicely :(
10:21:00  <Darkvater> peter1138: if you want to give it a shot, there are some added files in WINCE/, those are basically copies of the files in video/ sound/
10:21:09  <Darkvater> don't ask me why he moved'em there
10:21:28  <peter1138> ===> Compiling language turkish
10:21:28  <peter1138> lang/turkish.txt:23: FATAL: Invalid UTF-8 sequence in 'K?m?r'
10:21:40  <peter1138> (so that works)
10:22:10  <Darkvater> hmm wait; don't we want the lang files to be unicode actually?
10:22:22  <peter1138> hmm?
10:22:27  <peter1138> they need to be utf8, yes
10:23:40  <Tron> this GX stuff is an existing API?
10:24:09  <peter1138> hmm, i appear to have deleted my ppc stuff
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10:24:30  <Darkvater> apparently
10:25:24  <peter1138> probably still at home though
10:25:43  <Tron> FreeTrain seems pretty dead
10:25:51  <Zevensoft> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Transport_Tycoon_AI.jpg lol
10:27:51  <Tron> ah, it's the C# thingie, now i remember, i've seen this quite some time ago
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10:30:44  <Darkvater> hiya alltaken
10:31:07  <Tron> morning/evening Alltaken
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10:31:35  <Alltaken> hello
10:31:55  <Tron> Those damn aussies, they call mornings evenings. This happens when you live whole your life upside down.
10:32:09  <peter1138> :D
10:32:12  <peter1138> hmm
10:32:29  <peter1138> arm-wince-pe-gcc (GCC) 3.4.2
10:32:49  <Alltaken> good thing i am a Kiwi
10:32:58  <Alltaken> its also coming on Summer here, so i ain't complaining
10:33:07  <Alltaken> christmas by the BBQ and on the beach is great
10:33:54  <Zevensoft> yeah this summer is good
10:34:00  <Tron> he's one of those hobbits! even worse!
10:34:13  * peter1138 grumbles
10:34:18  <peter1138> hungry :/
10:37:48  <Alltaken> so we eat lots, whats your point :P
10:38:05  <Darkvater> Tron: gcc doesn't do cross-object optimization, does it?
10:38:30  <Tron> depends on what you mean
10:38:47  <Tron> formost the linker is not part of gcc
10:39:07  <Tron> second you can compile multiple files with gcc in one go
10:39:26  <Darkvater> I have a small function in another C file, which when called with a constant for example can be optimized to a single number
10:40:09  <Tron> if you specify -funit-at-a-time and compile multiple files at once into a single target file it does optimisations between those files
10:40:24  <Darkvater> openttd doesn't do that does it?
10:40:37  <Darkvater> cause MSVC does global optimization between all object files if you tell it
10:40:39  <peter1138> it links them all at the end
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10:50:14  <peter1138> customer sites... *sigh*
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11:08:10  <peter1138> hmm
11:08:12  <peter1138> power blips
11:27:29  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7090 /branches/utf8/ (string.c string.h): [utf8] -Codechange: Move and inline Utf8Consume() and Utf8CharLen() to allow compiler optimisation
11:28:05  *** Sacro [~ben@213.249.248.104] has joined #openttd
11:28:12  <peter1138> mr 'acro
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11:29:33  <roboboy> hello sacro
11:31:09  * roboboy tired
11:31:33  <ln-> segmentation fault!
11:32:05  <peter1138> where?
11:32:40  <ln-> on startup, before the window even appeared.
11:35:01  <ln-> related to fullscreen.
11:36:09  <Sacro> morning peter1138, roboboy
11:36:52  * Prof_Frink segments ln-
11:37:53  <ln-> peter1138: http://pastebin.ca/242540
11:38:36  <roboboy> sacro did you get something from robobot
11:39:08  <ln-> peter1138: and a thing worth noting is that i have a two-monitor twinview setup with screens at 1680x1050 and 1024x768.
11:39:46  <ln-> the twinview itself is not the problem, it used to work with 1024x768 + 1024x768/800x600.
11:40:02  <ln-> so it segfaults when i try to enter fullscreen.
11:40:40  <peter1138> does it always do this?
11:41:00  <peter1138> (and when did it last work?)
11:41:11  * roboboy wonders if people ignore robobot because they think its a spam bot?
11:41:38  <ln-> it last worked before i set up this brand new 1680x1050 monitor.
11:41:45  <peter1138> ok
11:41:55  <peter1138> solution is to get me a brand new 1680x1050 monitor
11:42:16  <ln-> in fact i could do some more debugging later today, now i'll have to hurry to a lecture.
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11:42:47  <roboboy> ill be off to bed soon
11:42:57  <peter1138> what're i & _num_resolutions?
11:43:15  <Darkvater> peter1138: NEC LCD20WGX2
11:43:21  <peter1138> pah, lecture
11:43:46  <Darkvater> or http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1026462 (ViewSonic VX2025wm) ^^
11:43:48  <peter1138> 370 quid! :(
11:44:19  <Tron> <peter1138> what're i & _num_resolutions? <--- hm?
11:44:41  <ln-> i = 5464, _num_resolutions = 0  (wtf, but so gdb says)
11:45:02  <roboboy> o Sacro!
11:45:02  <peter1138> that would be a problem
11:45:08  <peter1138> i starts at 1
11:45:16  <peter1138> and it checks for != instead of <
11:45:28  <peter1138> but that means it found no resolutions... tum te tum
11:45:43  <peter1138> Darkvater: that makes halflife2 look nice
11:45:45  * roboboy teeth brushing
11:45:47  <peter1138> i need a decent pc ;(
11:46:06  <Darkvater> peter1138: :D, I'md rooling over these nwe montirors
11:46:50  <peter1138> my 21" sun is okay...
11:46:51  <peter1138> but...
11:46:53  <peter1138> BIG
11:46:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> that's the biggest problem if you don't have real arrays, you can't tell the compiler to add index out of bound checking
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11:49:19  * peter1138 wonders why it starts at 1 anyway...
11:50:23  <peter1138> r312 :D
11:52:00  <roboboy> gnight
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11:55:59  <kbrooks> question :-)
11:58:35  <kbrooks> how do i know if a train is old?
11:59:11  <Darkvater> look in details window
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12:00:06  <kbrooks> ok... two trains are. sigh!
12:00:21  <Darkvater> or of course you can look in the train-list and sort by age
12:02:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... didn't i read somewhere that MB had snowy stations, are they included in any newgrf? if yes, which one?
12:02:18  <Tron> i want an option to sort by the driver's shoe size!
12:03:40  <CIA-1> tron * r7091 /trunk/genworld_gui.c: Make some code a) shorter b) simpler c) not leak memory
12:05:38  <kbrooks> Tron, who cares
12:05:58  <Tron> about what?
12:06:17  <kbrooks> that
12:06:34  <Tron> ?
12:09:12  <kbrooks> "<Tron> i want an option to sort by the driver's shoe size!"
12:09:38  <Tron> hey, that's important information!
12:10:08  <Sacro> Tron: ooh, it is, you dont want a train so small his feet get stuck
12:10:42  <Tron> kbrooks: see? Sacro immediatly grasped the importance of this
12:10:52  <kbrooks> ...no comment
12:13:21  <kbrooks> whoo! new trains
12:14:14  <kbrooks> uhh
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12:14:32  <kbrooks> how do i find a steel factory that has a train station?
12:14:39  <kbrooks> without using a map
12:14:44  <Sacro> kbrooks: find a station that accepts iron ore
12:14:50  <Sacro> or produces steel :p
12:15:09  <kbrooks> how do i do that? :|
12:15:56  <kbrooks> i see a steel mill that requires iron ore and produces steel. so if it produces steel,a then it needs to become a good
12:15:58  <Sacro> station list dropdown
12:16:08  <Sacro> look for st i presume
12:16:15  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause2: probably newstatsw.grf? :P
12:16:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, but i used in the miniin (snow in temperate) and the stations don't get snowy
12:17:02  <Zevensoft> isnt it a bit odd that steel mills make soylent green steel?
12:17:08  <peter1138> yes
12:17:20  <peter1138> it probably checks for either arctic or the alpine climate set
12:17:55  <peter1138> or it could be the "is above snowline" value
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12:18:20  <peter1138> i bet that hasn't been adjusted for snow in temperate
12:19:01  * peter1138 checks
12:19:53  <peter1138> Tron: nice leak :)
12:20:30  <Tron> valgrind, dead easy
12:20:38  <peter1138> does the MiniIN always enable snow in temperate?
12:20:56  <Tron> though i wonder how to come up with the original code
12:21:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, it is always on
12:21:34  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause2: http://fuzzle.org/o/statsnow.diff might allow it
12:21:55  <peter1138> but if the grf only loads the snow sprites depending on arctic/alpine then it won't
12:22:16  <kbrooks> hmm.
12:22:54  <kbrooks> any tips for the following:
12:23:14  <kbrooks> steel mill --> (city) --> goods factory
12:23:23  <kbrooks> pretenwd the city doesnt exist
12:23:50  <peter1138> yeah
12:23:52  <peter1138> a train
12:23:52  <kbrooks> --> means a road
12:23:57  <peter1138> oh, then trucks
12:24:00  <Sacro> steel mill -> goods factory -> city
12:24:08  <Sacro> is more profitable
12:24:11  <kbrooks> Sacro, right, im doing that
12:24:12  <peter1138> i'm not sure what the question is supposed to be
12:24:50  <kbrooks> the question is supposed to be if the city accepts goods, can i put them there?
12:24:59  <kbrooks> the city is pop 807
12:25:15  <peter1138> ...
12:25:23  <peter1138> if the city accepts goods, you can send goods there, yes
12:25:24  <Sacro> if it accepts goods
12:25:29  <peter1138> that's kind of the point
12:25:41  <peter1138> if the question is something else, then you're still not being clear
12:25:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... does not appear to work...
12:25:50  <kbrooks> ok
12:26:13  <Sacro> pi is an amzing number
12:26:26  <Sacro> !calc pi
12:26:27  <_42_> Sacro: 0;
12:26:30  <Sacro> :o
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12:27:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> strange, i suddenly do not get the german strings anymore
12:27:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> neither from the newstations nor from the dbset
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12:28:39  <peter1138> just checked the grf
12:28:44  <peter1138> it skips the snow sprites if it's not arctic
12:28:51  <peter1138> so you're stuffed ;p
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12:30:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> i suddenly hear windy sound when i am in a snowy area, where does that come from?
12:31:12  <peter1138> in arctic? it's built in
12:31:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> i never heard it with snow-in-temperate before
12:31:59  <peter1138> oh
12:32:02  <peter1138> well that i don't know
12:33:14  <peter1138> hmm
12:33:40  <peter1138> if you're feeling really nasty, you could make it ignore the climate test for just that grf
12:34:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, i thought of that option, but i would not know how to do that
12:34:21  <Sacro> peter1138: please stop putting livestock in tankers :p
12:34:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> maybe it's cowfish ;)
12:34:42  <peter1138> why?
12:34:46  <peter1138> it's milk
12:35:01  <peter1138> and it goes faster than a livestock wagon
12:35:25  <peter1138> if it wasn't intended, it wouldn't be allowed...
12:35:26  <Sacro> milk is not livestock
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12:37:50  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause2: http://fuzzle.org/o/dodgyhack.diff maybe ;p
12:38:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> ok, the german-string-translation problem is also in trunk
12:39:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> must be one of last week's (or so) changes
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12:47:12  <Zevensoft> peter purees his livestock into a milky compound, to get more into a tanker
12:47:54  <Zevensoft> what I find weird is steel industries putting people into their steel D:
12:51:41  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7092 /trunk/ (window.c window.h):
12:51:41  <CIA-1> -Codechange: Add function to send a window message to a whole class of windows,
12:51:41  <CIA-1>  SendWindowMessageClass().
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12:58:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> narf
12:58:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> Error: Tried to load too many sprites (#16383; max 16383)
12:58:45  <peter1138> :D
12:59:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> yay, now i got a snowy station ;)
13:00:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> but still, something screwed up the strings...
13:01:04  <Prof_Frink> peter1138: so why does openttd have such a low spritelimit?
13:01:40  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7093 /trunk/ (gui.h main_gui.c viewport.h):
13:01:40  <CIA-1> -Codechange: Move DoZoomInOutWindow declaration to viewport.h and rewrite the function
13:01:40  <CIA-1>  a bit more sensibly.
13:03:47  <kbrooks> So umm
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13:06:16  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7094 /trunk/ (genworld.c main_gui.c smallmap_gui.c viewport.c viewport.h):
13:06:16  <CIA-1> -Codechange: Get rid of the window-specific code in DoZoomInOutWindow (enable, disable
13:06:16  <CIA-1>  buttons depending on calling window, game-mode); handle it by broadcasting messages
13:06:16  <CIA-1>  to the calling window, because that knows how and what buttons to set.
13:06:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> must be something between 6946 and HEAD
13:09:10  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7095 /trunk/ (main_gui.c viewport.h):
13:09:10  <CIA-1> -Codechange: Move MaxZoomIn function to viewport.h and change it to MaxZoomInOut
13:09:10  <CIA-1>  with a zoom parameter and a pointer to the window which's viewport we want to zoom.
13:09:50  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7096 /trunk/newgrf_text.c: -Fix (r6995 (sort-of)): Don't set bit 6 when convert grf ver 6 language ids to use ver 7 format
13:09:57  <peter1138> +ing
13:10:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> i guess that's the fix for my problem? ;)
13:10:28  <peter1138> yes
13:10:32  * Darkvater ticks one more item off the 0.5-todo list
13:10:35  <peter1138> no ide why bit 6 was ever set there
13:10:50  <peter1138> +a
13:10:53  <peter1138> fucking keyboard :P
13:10:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> i just thought it might be r6995 when reading the log
13:11:04  <Sacro> peter1138: no wonder your typing is bad
13:12:31  <peter1138> Darkvater: "more sensibly" == if -> switch? ;)
13:15:04  <Sacro> hehe, "ln -s /dev/urandom /etc/motd"
13:15:42  <chu_> hello all
13:15:49  <peter1138> ah, the zoomed out tgp generation has gone
13:16:19  <Sacro> aww. i liked it
13:16:23  <peter1138> and the zoomin/out buttons are wrong :P
13:19:34  <Darkvater> whaat?
13:19:39  <Darkvater> I double-checked'em
13:20:04  <peter1138> heh
13:20:10  <peter1138> obviously not well enough :)
13:20:11  <peter1138> gah
13:20:15  <Darkvater> hmm..
13:20:17  <peter1138> fucking office 2007
13:20:22  <Darkvater> what's wrong with if/switch?
13:20:25  <peter1138> it ignores the system font-smoothing setting...
13:20:38  <peter1138> Darkvater: nothing... others just put "if cascade -> switch" ;)
13:20:55  <Darkvater> ah
13:21:00  <Darkvater> so..how are the buttons wrong/
13:21:01  <Darkvater> ?
13:21:08  <Darkvater> it's 9, 17 and 5
13:22:17  <peter1138> well a new game now starts zoomed in, but the zoom in button is enabled, and the zoom out button is disabled
13:22:24  <peter1138> if you then zoom with the mousewheel it fixes it
13:22:38  <Darkvater> ah that...
13:23:39  <Darkvater> the buttons are right, just not updated :)
13:24:06  <Darkvater> gaah
13:24:08  <Darkvater> ..
13:24:29  <chu_> .oO(updatet buttons - there is one in station_gui.c too...)
13:27:00  <peter1138> station_gui.c has no zoom button...
13:27:47  <chu_> buttons - not zoom buttons
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13:28:50  <Darkvater> dammit
13:28:52  <Darkvater> ...
13:32:26  <chu_> peter1138: perhaps you could be so kind and tell my, why my patch for that station-list-bug was wrong - so i could try to fix it
13:36:06  <peter1138> cos " <= NUM_CARGO" is asking for trouble :)
13:37:58  <chu_> i can write "< NUM_CARGO + 1" but that is semantically the same
13:38:05  <Darkvater> OMG
13:38:11  <Darkvater> peter1138: main_gui.c:2416
13:38:13  <Darkvater> o_O
13:39:02  <peter1138> yum?
13:39:22  <Darkvater> it hardcodedly disables a magic button (which is the zoom one)
13:39:29  <peter1138> chu_: yes, but it is more clear on what the intention is
13:40:07  <chu_> ok. if that's all what you don't like... then this is not a really big problem
13:42:04  <peter1138> chu_: well, there is another problem
13:42:14  <peter1138> but that's a future thing
13:43:58  <chu_> do i have to sign an NDA to get knowlede of that?
13:45:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> i somehow have the feeling that an NDA and open source are conflicting philosophys ;)
13:46:00  <peter1138> chu_: 32 cargo types
13:46:14  <peter1138> num_cargo = 32
13:46:23  <peter1138> HASBIT(... , 33) doesn't work too well...
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13:50:50  <chu_> peter1138: if you have uint32 - that is right
13:50:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> put an assert for < 32 there ;)
13:51:36  <chu_> peter1138: but with 32 cargo types, that selection-toolbar will break anyways
13:52:36  <chu_> perhaps it it not really neccessary to be able to select any possible combination of cargo types in the filter
13:53:04  <chu_> it might be sufficient to select "one type of goods", "no goods" or "all goods"
13:53:19  <chu_> (s/goods/cargo/)
13:53:58  <peter1138> well
13:54:02  <peter1138> adding enough buttons is easy
13:54:05  <peter1138> though it might look silly
13:54:37  <chu_> it would have the same effect as the ugly 4 new lines in the build-vehicle-window
13:54:59  <chu_> players playing in a classic way (12 goods) will see 20 unused buttons
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14:02:28  <peter1138> wouldn't need to all be there
14:02:33  <peter1138> (unless there were actually 32)
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14:03:52  <chu_> is there a "invisible" button state?
14:03:57  *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas
14:04:05  <Belugas> morning
14:04:10  *** Turski [~tarmo@dsl-kpogw1-fe21df00-2.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd
14:04:10  <Belugas> or afternoon
14:04:10  <Sacro> Belugas: afternoon
14:04:13  <Belugas> or night
14:04:19  <Belugas> hello Sacro :)
14:04:52  *** Turski [~tarmo@dsl-kpogw1-fe21df00-2.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit []
14:04:53  <peter1138> chu_: yes
14:05:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> yay, i managed to change the transport income based on daylength
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14:05:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> it is kinda stupid to have over 1M EUR after only 3 months of gameplay
14:05:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... my font does not have an EUR sign...
14:05:52  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause2: Play ukrs or something
14:06:12  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause2: Mine has a grey box sign, yours must be b0rken.
14:06:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> Prof_Frink: a) i play DBSet, and b) it has nothing to do with that
14:06:54  <peter1138> dbset or dbsetxl?
14:06:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> xl
14:07:00  <peter1138> cos dbset sucks iirc
14:07:12  <Prof_Frink> dbset is ancient
14:07:19  <peter1138> so's dbsetxl..
14:07:20  <chu_> peter1138: is any code of that magic 32 cargo types available yet?
14:07:32  <Prof_Frink> True.
14:07:34  <peter1138> only if you know where to look :)
14:07:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> it is just that with 32x daylength, the trains arrive 32 more times
14:07:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> so to make sensible income, that has to be divided by 32
14:07:52  <Prof_Frink> Hopefully there'll be new mb releases with TTDPatch 2.5
14:07:53  <peter1138> i do hope that MB's switched to 32px vehicles
14:07:58  <peter1138> (consistently, like UKRS)
14:08:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> what do 32px vehicles do?
14:08:23  <peter1138> fit better ;p
14:08:25  <chu_> peter1138: i need to know the number of cargo-types, and the color and the abbreviated cargo-name of all cargo-types
14:08:40  <peter1138> chu_: NUM_CARGO is all you need
14:08:47  <Zevensoft> eddi did you mean to type the euro symbol before?
14:08:49  <chu_> having that, i could rewrite that cargo-filter
14:08:52  <Zevensoft> I saw it :D
14:09:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, that was supposed to be a euro sign
14:09:35  <Zevensoft> your utf-8 encoding works
14:09:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> i know that
14:09:42  <Zevensoft> even if your font doesnt lol
14:10:08  <chu_> peter1138: if you look at station_gui.c:268 you can see that NUM_CARGO is not enough
14:10:41  <peter1138> yes, that array goes
14:11:12  <peter1138> i don't have an updated copy of the changes at the moment
14:11:36  <chu_> it would be good to have that color be included into the CargoConst-struct
14:11:42  <peter1138> chu_: precisely
14:12:54  <chu_> ok. let me sum up our alternatives
14:13:18  <chu_> 1) use a drop-down-list with the entries All, None, and each cargo type
14:13:34  <chu_> 2) create up to NUM_CARGO+2 Buttons dynamically
14:14:39  <chu_> i am not sure, which one is better
14:14:58  <chu_> i use that filter in only two ways - selecting only one cargo (eg. passengers)
14:15:04  <peter1138> 2 would keep the behaviour
14:15:12  <peter1138> +current
14:15:37  <chu_> the other way i use it is selecting "all but passengers"
14:17:10  <chu_> i'll think about it. but i'd tend to 2
14:19:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> hmm... http://www.ewetel.net/~michael.blunck/ttd/br57_1.html <- the liveries on the left, are they not included in the set, or just not supported by openttd? i have never seen those
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14:21:39  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause2: i don't see a BR57...
14:22:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> i haven't seen that engine either, but i was more interested in the wagons
14:22:37  <chu_> peter1138: in the meantime, you could fix the window by adding " + 1" twice (in the lines, i added the = in my patch)
14:22:38  <peter1138> well, it's hard to know with MB whether it's in or if it's dev
14:23:01  <peter1138> as the engine isn't in, the wagons could be different too
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14:23:57  <peter1138> or it could be a bug ;p
14:25:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> there was another engine that i never saw ingame, the BR 425 i think...
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14:37:05  <CIA-1> egladil * r7097 /branches/32bpp/ (misc_gui.c network_gui.c player_gui.c players.c): [32bpp] -Replace some more draw calls.
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14:42:24  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7098 /trunk/ (genworld.c genworld_gui.c main_gui.c):
14:42:24  <CIA-1> -Regression (r7094): Zoom buttons were not properly updated with a new/loaded game. The
14:42:24  <CIA-1>  good thing is, we got rid of even more magic code (tm)
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14:44:02  <Sacro> hey _42_
14:44:17  <Born_Acorn> 43 is the new meaning of life.
14:44:22  <Born_Acorn> 42 is sooo last year.
14:44:51  <XeryusTC> !translate nl_en Born_Acorn moet z'n kop dicht houden
14:45:23  <XeryusTC> :o 42 isn't suppose to be quiet
14:45:29  <Born_Acorn> mwahahaha!
14:45:32  <Zevensoft> ooh multi-livery
14:45:44  <Darkvater> !kick 42
14:46:19  *** Tron [~tron@p54A3E357.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:46:41  <XeryusTC> !openttd commit
14:46:43  <_42_> Commit by Darkvater :: r7098 /trunk/ (genworld.c genworld_gui.c main_gui.c) (2006-11-07 14:41:53 UTC)
14:46:45  <_42_> -Regression (r7094): Zoom buttons were not properly updated with a new/loaded game. The
14:46:47  <_42_>  good thing is, we got rid of even more magic code (tm)
14:46:48  <XeryusTC> :)
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14:47:23  <Zevensoft> how does the newspaper darken the view?
14:47:32  <Darkvater> it gets recoloured
14:47:36  <Zevensoft> yeah I know that
14:47:43  <Zevensoft> I mean, how does it know what values to map
14:47:53  <peter1138> using a palette map
14:48:04  <Zevensoft> arg
14:48:22  <Zevensoft> how does it know what values are darker versions of others
14:48:56  <peter1138> using... a palette map
14:49:22  <Zevensoft> the palette map just defines what rgb colour you get from an index
14:50:05  <peter1138> not for us
14:50:26  <Zevensoft> well I can see the ottd palette now, and there is no clear system
14:51:16  <peter1138> ok, to avoid confusion
14:51:20  <peter1138> s/palette map/recolour map/
14:51:25  <Zevensoft> ahh
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14:51:41  <peter1138> a 256 entry table
14:51:47  <Zevensoft> hrm where can I find this table
14:51:54  <peter1138> :D
14:51:54  <Zevensoft> nm, I'll look
14:51:59  <peter1138> in the grf files
14:52:03  <Zevensoft> oh.
14:52:14  <peter1138> referenced in table/sprites.h
14:52:19  <peter1138> PALETTE_ stuff
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14:52:55  <Zevensoft> yay
14:53:29  <peter1138> the actual bit that does it is in news_gui.c:140
14:53:36  <peter1138> well, that picks the map to use
14:55:07  <Tron> palette-to-palette mapping is quite powerful
14:55:15  <Zevensoft> apparently
14:55:40  <Tron> with just 128k you could achieve 2bit alphablending
14:56:30  <Zevensoft> cool
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14:59:59  <Zevensoft> ahh I see now
15:00:37  <peter1138> the method of supplying the map is... hysterical raisins
15:00:48  <peter1138> although it keeps it compatible with newgrf, so... heh
15:01:24  <peter1138> bah... copying an 18MB file... 5 minutes remaining
15:02:36  <Darkvater> so..
15:02:43  <peter1138> hmm?
15:03:28  <Darkvater> anyone wants to work on getting 0.5 out?
15:03:50  <Zevensoft> ?
15:04:00  <Zevensoft> doesnt it need bugtesting
15:04:06  <Darkvater> eh no
15:04:10  <Darkvater> it needs bugfixing
15:04:13  <Sacro> heh... there are no bugs
15:04:27  <Darkvater> http://darkvater.homeip.net/~tfarago/openttd/0.5.0_todo.txt
15:04:29  <Sacro> just "Darkvater's randem features"
15:04:48  <peter1138> i'm still working on the top two :)
15:04:59  <Darkvater> I'm working on the top one :)
15:05:06  <Darkvater> hehe I checked UTF8 in windows95/98
15:05:17  <chu_> Darkvater: converning makefile-rewrite - have you seen cmake?
15:05:19  <peter1138> i can do 6 easily enough...
15:05:21  <Darkvater> it works with unicows.dll...but sometimes I lose input
15:05:30  <chu_> (concerning)
15:05:30  <peter1138> mooo
15:05:30  <Darkvater> .. I should probably number them
15:05:40  <Darkvater> so I hvae to install VC6 to see what's up
15:05:44  <Darkvater> chu_: branches/makefile_rewrite
15:06:24  <peter1138> sdl driver mouse events... also keypress events
15:06:45  <Darkvater> *reload*
15:06:46  <Zevensoft> ooh whats this smallmap-zoom thing?
15:07:00  <Darkvater> peter1138: #23
15:07:01  <peter1138> ah ha
15:07:19  <peter1138> "changed station name" ?
15:07:29  <Darkvater> only non-hacky patches are accepted
15:07:32  <Darkvater> .change
15:07:33  <Darkvater> dammit
15:07:38  <Darkvater> irssi != opera
15:07:39  <Belugas> yeah... FS221... I like that one, but i'm not sure if it's the right way of doing.
15:07:59  <Darkvater> peter1138: the title of the report
15:08:02  <Belugas> i was thinking a more general approach then just SDL
15:08:03  <peter1138> hmm, ok
15:08:24  <peter1138> reset_engines doesn't update currently open vehicle lists
15:08:27  <peter1138> not a huge issue..
15:08:39  <Darkvater> some are pretty easy to do..if someone wants to score easily :)
15:08:54  <chu_> Darkvater: ahh a new wheel. just great *G*
15:09:02  <Darkvater> eg 6,  11
15:09:23  <Darkvater> 7 would be appreciated if it were thought about (gui-wise)
15:09:38  <Darkvater> peter1138: doesn't it markwholescreendity?
15:10:45  <Darkvater> peter1138: once I sort win95/98 out, clipboard can also go in, as well as fs2ottd/ottd2fs (partial support)
15:11:42  <Darkvater> chu_: eh?
15:12:14  <chu_> Darkvater: it seems that "It will contain a main ./configure, based on bash (no auto-tools for now)." will start "yet an other buildsystem"
15:12:48  <Darkvater> am I missing something?
15:12:52  <chu_> i am sure, that is all pretty cool, and cmake is just difficult to understand.
15:13:14  <chu_> Darkvater: you are missing, that there are a lot of people, who spend a lot of time in building build-systems
15:13:29  <Darkvater> I didn't make the branch
15:14:03  <chu_> i didn't either :-)
15:14:33  <Darkvater> everyone is bitching and likes his/her build system best
15:15:00  <peter1138> Darkvater: yes, but now there is persistent data in the windows...
15:15:28  <peter1138> auto-tools is a fucking pain
15:15:36  <chu_> oh in fact i din't write any buildsystem myself yet - only small "doit.sh"-scripts just compiling all files at once
15:16:02  <chu_> but i know, that sometimes requirements rise and you add a feature, then an other and then an other
15:16:13  <chu_> in the end you end up like autotools
15:16:15  <Zevensoft> hrm
15:16:17  <Darkvater> peter1138: "persistent data in the windows" ?
15:16:49  <Tron> autotools are a relict from a time when things were really inconsistent
15:17:08  <Tron> cmake syntax is strange, btw
15:17:10  <chu_> tron - i am speaking against autotools
15:17:12  <Tron> if (a < b)
15:17:15  <Tron> else (a < b)
15:17:19  <Tron> fi (a < b)
15:17:27  <Tron> you have to repeat the condition everytime
15:17:35  <Belugas> Darkvater, i'll take care of FS364.  It's already on my "taskload"
15:17:44  <chu_> tron - this is not really strange - it makes code more readable
15:18:00  <Tron> i don't think so and it makes changing it a pain
15:18:18  <chu_> Tron: and while makefiles are things you do not change very often, an easily readable make-file makes it easier
15:18:51  <Darkvater> Belugas: good, please call them by their index; easier to look up :)
15:18:56  <Tron> it buys you nothing, but you have to copy&paste stuff around
15:19:09  <Darkvater> Belugas: if ok'd and commited also close the appropiate FS report
15:19:29  <chu_> tron: and you think, that a highly proprietery shell-script is more easy to maintain?
15:19:49  <Tron> i think the current system works quite well
15:19:54  <Tron> it's not that pretty
15:20:10  <Tron> but it works for a dozen platforms, that's Good Enough(tm)
15:21:03  <chu_> Tron: Darkvater lists "Makefile rewrite" as one of the 0.5.0-todos
15:21:33  <Tron> the only advantage of cmake is see is that it can generate Makefiles and VS project files, but that's not important enough to bother
15:21:36  <Tron> Darkvater: huh?
15:21:41  <Tron> what for?
15:22:02  <chu_> all i am suggesting, that if the buildsystem is changed, it should be changed to a system wich is commonly used and not replaced by something awkward
15:22:03  <Belugas> Darkvater : 26th.  agreed.  Btw, you shold have placed numbers on the todo, i would not had to count them ;)
15:22:04  <Belugas> hehehe
15:22:19  <Tron> there _are_ numbers
15:22:37  <Darkvater> ok, reload file, did some updates http://darkvater.homeip.net/~tfarago/openttd/0.5.0_todo.txt
15:22:37  <peter1138> Belugas: reload it :P
15:22:50  <Belugas> gaaa...
15:22:52  <Belugas> tx
15:23:26  <Tron> what are the numbers in brackets?
15:23:33  <Darkvater> Tron: it has a '?' in front; optional, donnu. It automates source-file adding, etc, pretty nice
15:23:35  <Sacro> flyspray?
15:24:01  <Tron> Darkvater: source file adding? it won't be less than adding one line and that's already the current status
15:24:15  <Tron> Sacro: unlikely, because
15:24:18  <Tron> 14 -! [232] Vehicle Deletion Crash [News Window Related?] (FS#255)
15:24:31  <chu_> one of the biggest features of cmake is out-of-source compilation
15:24:31  <Darkvater> *refresh*
15:24:38  <chu_> that is really great
15:24:41  <Darkvater> Tron: it's the flyspray bug-id
15:24:43  <Tron> out-of-what?
15:24:57  <Darkvater> Tron: no we have to add it to each project file; new system handles that automatically
15:24:58  <Tron> Darkvater: so what is it? 232 or 255?
15:25:04  <Darkvater> which one?
15:25:10  <Tron> <Tron> 14 -! [232] Vehicle Deletion Crash [News Window Related?] (FS#255)
15:25:11  <Darkvater> ah both
15:25:12  <chu_> Tron: you have a source tree (directory) and the o-files and binaries get into an other directory
15:25:22  <chu_> make clean ist just a plain "rm -rf"
15:25:31  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7099 /trunk/rail_gui.c: -Fix (r4768): When changing the selected newstation type, ensure the station size chosen is permitted. If not, pick the first valid sizes.
15:25:33  <Tron> chu_: that's a small change in the Makefile, i just didn't bother so far to do it
15:25:56  <peter1138> i don't have cmake...
15:26:01  <peter1138> i do have gmake though...
15:26:10  <peter1138> (well, called just "make" obviously)
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15:26:18  <Darkvater> ok, refresh (last time)
15:26:27  <chu_> peter1138: cmake will be on most platforms in little time
15:26:39  <Tron> i guess 14 could be my fault
15:26:39  <chu_> kde4 will use cmake
15:26:39  <peter1138> Darkvater: i can't click on the FS links ;)
15:26:45  * Darkvater slaps peter1138 around
15:26:51  <Darkvater> with a large trout even
15:26:54  <peter1138> hhee
15:26:59  <chu_> until then, the current makefile works well enough
15:27:35  <Darkvater> current makfile sucks
15:27:46  <Tron> to be honest, until it provides world peace i'm not interested in changing the build system
15:27:55  <Darkvater> do you have any idea how fucking long it takes to calculate the dependencies?
15:27:59  <peter1138> Darkvater: 11, remove it from the gui or the whole thing? heh
15:28:02  <Darkvater> openttd can compile in that time
15:28:04  <Tron> Darkvater: less than 10 seconds
15:28:09  <Darkvater> peter1138: whole thing
15:28:18  <peter1138> 10 seconds? i wish :)
15:28:33  <Tron> here it takes < 10 seconds for the DEPS and about one minute for the acutal compilation
15:29:22  <Darkvater> rolfcopter
15:29:47  <Darkvater> real    0m43.443s
15:29:47  <Darkvater> user    0m28.570s
15:29:47  <Darkvater> sys     0m9.801s
15:29:52  <Tron> sorry, it's 11 seconds for the DEPS
15:30:22  <Darkvater> and that is *just* deps
15:30:35  * peter1138 times
15:30:44  <chu_> bug 303 - number 26 on darkvaters list - is a problem of that ugly static-color-array
15:31:07  <peter1138> 41 seconds for me
15:31:30  <chu_> if we get the colors of goods into CargoConst than this bug is resolveable easily
15:31:45  <chu_> shall i do that?
15:31:49  <Tron> 11 seconds for dependencies and 60 seconds for compiling and linking
15:31:50  <peter1138> no
15:31:55  <Tron> real times of course
15:32:01  <Tron> not user, not system, real
15:32:15  <peter1138> chu_: as i said, it's readly dealt with by my stuff
15:32:17  <Darkvater> 43seconds DEP, and 1.54 *FULL* compile
15:32:29  * peter1138 times a full compile
15:32:37  <Darkvater> now that is....ugh :(
15:32:46  <peter1138> 15:30 <@Darkvater> openttd can compile in that time
15:32:50  <peter1138> not quite then ;)
15:32:51  <Tron> the 60 seconds was just compiling and linking, without dependencies
15:33:04  <Darkvater> and mind you if I changde window.h if weould still be 43 seconds...
15:33:06  <chu_> peter1138: ok. then i'll watch the commit-log
15:33:08  <Darkvater> peter1138: on windows it can
15:33:17  * peter1138 wonders what spec tron's computer is...
15:33:35  <Tron> Athlon XP 2000+ (1,6GHz)
15:33:35  <Darkvater> hell even my VMWare WinXP does a full recompile on the SAME MACHINE with MSVC while make is still fucking around with deps
15:33:43  <Tron> 0,5GB RAM
15:33:47  <Tron> ATA100 disk
15:34:00  <Tron> nothing spectacular
15:34:28  <peter1138> it took me 2 minutes to get up to the Gs
15:34:38  <Tron> Gs?
15:34:45  <peter1138> compiling
15:34:57  <peter1138> so that's about a 1/3rd of the way
15:35:14  * peter1138 sighs
15:35:22  <peter1138> guess i need a new pc ;p
15:35:32  <Tron> current specs?
15:36:07  <peter1138> Athlon 800, 0.5GB RAM, ATA133 disk
15:36:09  <chu_> make dep 16 sec (real), make 1:11 min
15:36:21  <peter1138> chu_: what OS?
15:36:24  <Tron> chu_: OS? FS?
15:36:26  <chu_> (P4-2.8, 1.5 gb, sata-150, debian 3.1)
15:36:54  <Tron> FreeBSD 6.2 and UFS2 here, btw
15:37:09  <peter1138> gcc version?
15:37:12  <Tron> 3.4.6
15:37:43  <chu_> gcc version 3.3.5
15:37:59  <Ailure> hmm
15:38:02  <Ailure> quick question
15:38:07  <Ailure> anyone ever done something like
15:38:10  <Ailure> drive-through depot
15:38:18  <Ailure> aka you enter one side of a depot, and you exit on the other
15:38:23  <Ailure> like a typical ro-ro station :P
15:39:16  <Tron> GCC 4.1 gives about the same results
15:39:16  <chu_> so. i have to go for now
15:39:20  <chu_> see you later
15:39:27  <peter1138> Ailure: not afaik
15:39:27  <Tron> 11 seconds for dependencies, 61 seconds for compiling and linking
15:39:34  <peter1138> hmm, 's not that then
15:39:41  <Tron> gentlemen, your OSes suck (;
15:39:47  <peter1138> linux :/
15:40:10  <Tron> hm, i have one idea ... mom
15:40:29  <Belugas> maybe Tron is compiling in a memory drive instead :)
15:40:46  <Tron> it's a ATA100 disk with UFS2
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15:41:05  <Tron> of course the OS does caching
15:41:18  * Maedhros gets roughly the same times as Tron, but with an amd64, 1gb ram, and a SATA drive :-O
15:41:19  <Tron> (and it's pretty good at it, you can read about it in some articles)
15:41:59  <Zevensoft> how does one run win32 ottd with SDL?
15:42:01  <Tron> softupdates may be another factor
15:42:05  <Zevensoft> I have the libraries
15:42:19  <glx> Zevensoft: openttd -vsdl
15:42:20  <Darkvater> Zevensoft: WITH_SDL
15:42:26  <Zevensoft> thanks glx
15:42:32  <Zevensoft> heh dark, already added that :)
15:42:38  <Darkvater> -v sdl
15:43:05  <Zevensoft> ah right, cheers
15:45:25  <Tron> ok, made it 1 second faster here
15:45:26  <Tron> mom, diff
15:45:50  <Tron> http://tron.homeunix.org/ottd/Makefile.diff
15:45:54  <Tron> Darkvater, peter1138: try this
15:46:07  <Darkvater> anyways, the makefile rewrite also puts the binaries in seperate directories so you don't have to rebuild the whole thing if you switch between DEBUG:=0 and DEBUG:=3
15:46:36  <Darkvater> Tron: how does that improve my speed?
15:47:12  <Darkvater> I just see that variable SDL_CONFIG is now hard-coded
15:47:22  <Tron> Darkvater: a few hundred less forks
15:47:40  <Tron> sorry, copy&pasto, mom
15:47:59  <Tron> now, refetch
15:48:16  <peter1138> doesn't it evalute the $(shell ...) there and then?
15:48:22  <peter1138> it's not any faster, anyway...
15:48:55  <Tron> it just executes sdl-config once (or rather twice)
15:49:02  <peter1138> didn't it before?
15:49:10  <Tron> instead of every time it uses the CFLAGS or LIBS variable
15:49:11  <Darkvater> visually it certainly seems faster
15:49:12  * Darkvater times
15:49:36  <Darkvater> real    0m36.935s
15:49:45  <Tron> peter1138: the := in TheMask96 {CC,LD}FLAGS_SDL line is important
15:49:53  <Tron> TheMask96?
15:49:55  <Darkvater> ~10 seconds off...still slow though
15:49:57  <Darkvater> lol
15:50:00  <Tron> huh? how did that get there
15:50:24  <Tron> Darkvater: so not only you OS sucks at filesystem handling, it sucks at spawning processes, too
15:50:43  <Zevensoft> hrm, gdi has buffer and bitmap, SDL has pixels and...?
15:51:18  <Zevensoft> would I need to create my own pixelbuffer?
15:51:25  <Darkvater> Tron: whohoo :)
15:51:29  <Tron> doing 450 forks+execs in 10 seconds is ... slow
15:51:36  <Darkvater> I thought reiserfs wasn't that slow
15:51:44  <peter1138> 36 seconds
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15:51:52  <peter1138> i get the same speed up... heh
15:51:54  <Tron> peter1138: and before?
15:51:59  <peter1138> 43 i think
15:52:12  <peter1138> oh, 41
15:53:29  <Ailure> [16:39] <peter1138> Ailure: not afaik
15:53:32  <Ailure> damn
15:53:35  <CIA-1> tron * r7100 /trunk/Makefile: Evaluate the necessary flags for SDL once per make run, not every time the CFLAGS/LIBS variables are used
15:53:41  <Ailure> I always find it awkard how depots works now
15:53:42  <Ailure> D:
15:55:26  <peter1138> Tron: same for libpng-config?
15:55:30  <peter1138> that gets me down to 29s
15:55:32  <Tron> just at it
15:56:00  <peter1138> that should speed up cygwin a lot, heh
15:56:10  <Tron> yay, saves another 1.5 seconds here
15:56:16  <Tron> about 8.5 seconds here now
15:56:37  <Tron> it should even affect the actual compile run
15:57:23  <Darkvater> cygwin is soo dead slow
15:57:34  <Darkvater> ./configure took me 20 minutes for compiling SDL :s
15:57:51  <Tron> yep, compiling is a bit faster, too
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15:59:11  <CIA-1> tron * r7101 /trunk/Makefile: Evaluate the necessary flags for libpng once per make run, not every time the CFLAGS/LIBS variables are used
15:59:12  <Tron> so, gentlemen, test it again
16:00:04  <peter1138> what about CC_VERSION? that's = instead of :=, but only used a few times
16:00:40  <Darkvater> real    0m28.845s
16:00:54  <peter1138> *sigh*
16:00:54  <Maedhros> wow, 7.606s
16:01:03  <peter1138> trawling through a 52k line log file :/
16:01:06  <Tron> Maedhros: specs?
16:01:09  <Darkvater> but...why can windows do it so much faster?
16:01:14  <Darkvater> openttd is not even using pch's
16:01:21  <peter1138> cos it's not gcc, heh
16:01:26  <Maedhros> Tron: amd64, 1Gb ram, SATA drive, linux, gcc 4.1
16:01:33  <Maedhros> so it ought to be fast, really ;)
16:01:43  <Tron> which Linux kernel?
16:01:48  <Tron> which FS?
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16:02:26  <peter1138> hmm, 2.6.9
16:02:40  <peter1138> probably some buggy shit thing
16:02:40  <Maedhros> 2.6.17-gentoo-r3, ext3
16:02:55  <peter1138> still takes hours to compile :D
16:03:03  <Darkvater> :)
16:03:21  <peter1138> right, i'll fix the refresh interval to 200ms
16:03:34  <Tron> Darkvater: this was about 1/3 of the time for the dependencies for you, right? feeling better?
16:03:46  <peter1138> it only seems to cause problems where people see an interval and lower it
16:03:58  <Tron> refresh interval?
16:04:09  <glx> for map generation
16:04:17  <Darkvater> 28 instead of 43, not too bad..still too long, but ok for the time being
16:04:26  <Darkvater> peter1138: just hardcode and remove
16:04:33  <peter1138> yeah, i am
16:04:37  <Tron> Darkvater: i'm not going to fix your kernel (;
16:04:46  <Darkvater> donnu who came up with the idea to add this to _patches...
16:04:52  <Tron> don't remeber me of the map generation abomination
16:05:10  <Tron> Darkvater: hint: his name begins with T and ends in ruelight
16:05:26  <Darkvater> really? ;)
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16:07:43  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7102 /trunk/ (genworld_gui.c settings.c settings_gui.c variables.h): -Codechange: Remove and hardcode unnecessary patch setting progress_update_interval
16:08:11  <peter1138> 11 done :D
16:08:17  <peter1138> do i get a cookie?
16:08:19  <peter1138> i'm starving
16:09:39  <Darkvater> hmm, why does branches/makefile_rewrite do the dependency thing instantly?
16:09:43  <TheMask96> Tron: yes?
16:09:46  * Darkvater gives peter1138 a tasty cookie
16:09:49  <Sacro> :o oh noes, i have no bread
16:10:07  <Tron> from 1:11 down to 1:05, that's ok
16:10:19  <Maedhros> Darkvater: it uses makedepend if it's available, i think
16:10:21  <Tron> TheMask96: sorry, i have no idea why one of my "the"s got expanded to your name
16:10:42  <TheMask96> ah ok... I almost thought I was important ;)
16:11:04  <peter1138> hmmm
16:11:19  * Darkvater likes makefile_rewrite
16:11:24  <peter1138> this build vehicle window filter is deeply engrained...
16:11:34  <Darkvater> don't even start me about that
16:11:40  <Darkvater> B ending in jarni
16:12:23  <Ailure> hmm
16:12:26  <Ailure> blah
16:12:30  <Ailure> now I want to make a such depot
16:12:33  <Ailure> question is how I program it xD
16:12:41  <Ailure> and implent it in a non-confusing way
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16:13:02  <Sacro> Ailure: heh, im thinking about that too... but im waiting for my new pc before i do any coding
16:13:04  <Sacro> Frostregen!
16:13:22  <Ailure> ironic
16:13:26  <Ailure> I'm getting a new computer too
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16:13:29  <Frostregen> hm?
16:13:30  <Ailure> and with all this school-stuff
16:13:39  <Ailure> I think I won't bother with anything open-source related stuff until christmas
16:13:40  <Frostregen> i ordered my new pc yesterday
16:13:40  <Darkvater> I wish someone would get me a new computer :(
16:13:49  <Ailure> though I probably play openTTD now and then
16:13:51  <Sacro> Darkvater: go to Uni
16:13:53  <Ailure> to maintain my sanity
16:13:54  <Ailure> :p
16:14:01  <Ailure> It's worrying though
16:14:08  <Ailure> I'm playing it more and more
16:14:08  <Ailure> x3
16:14:10  <Darkvater> Sacro: our uni sucks, didn't give me/us shit
16:14:15  * Frostregen slaps Sacro around a bit with a large trout
16:14:19  <Frostregen> skript?
16:14:30  <Ailure> hmm
16:14:45  <Ailure> the kind of depot I would make might have a little bit higher capacity but would be bigger too
16:14:56  <Ailure> train can exit as another train enters it
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16:15:12  <Sacro> Darkvater: shame, im getting about £5,500 this year, as well as XP Pro, VS6, VS2005 and a few other things
16:15:14  <Ailure> I kinda imagined that depots is mostly underground in openTTD
16:15:21  <Sacro> Frostregen: skript?
16:15:29  <Ailure> or is some kind of wormhole
16:15:37  <Frostregen> [17:15:22] <Sacro> Frostregen!
16:15:42  <Frostregen> you never did this ;)
16:15:48  <Frostregen> before*
16:15:52  <Sacro> Ailure: im thinking maintenance yards, you cant build/repair a train that is longer than the yard
16:16:11  <Sacro> Frostregen: ahh. i do it to a few people when they join :) depends how much attention the chanel is getting
16:16:20  <Ailure> well I thought implenting it something like that
16:16:26  <Frostregen> lol...kk
16:16:32  <Ailure> maybe just make it work like a station kinda, but only does maintance
16:16:49  <Ailure> ...which is like your idea about maintance yard heh
16:17:07  <Sacro> Ailure: yeah... it'd basically be a station, probably use the newstations stuff for drawing the depot
16:17:11  <Ailure> I would like the brakedown system being less annoying
16:17:14  <Ailure> but still there
16:17:22  <Ailure> it's unrealistic how often trains breaks down in lowest setting
16:17:29  <Ailure> but I don't want to take it away competly
16:17:47  <Sacro> yeah
16:21:12  <Zevensoft> dont they atm break down under tractive stress?
16:21:20  <peter1138> hmm
16:21:36  <Zevensoft> especially steam engines
16:21:49  <peter1138> more load == more breakdowns?
16:21:53  <Ailure> http://194.47.44.243/Ailuro%20Transports,%2013th%20Jun%201954.png
16:21:54  <Zevensoft> yeah
16:22:02  <Zevensoft> so people wouldnt have overly long trains
16:22:06  <Zevensoft> without adding more engines
16:22:09  <Ailure> vs http://194.47.44.243/Ailuro%20Transports,%207th%20Aug%201967.png
16:22:14  <Zevensoft> for hills
16:22:15  <Ailure> or why I like newStations filler
16:22:25  <Ailure> and yeah I noticed that in openTTD
16:22:33  <Ailure> strain a engine
16:22:39  <Ailure> and it goes down in relability faster
16:23:08  <Ailure> while some trains can be large without problems
16:23:12  <Ailure> such as maglev :P
16:23:21  <Zevensoft> arent breakdowns based on time atm?
16:23:30  <Zevensoft> why not base them on mileage
16:23:40  <Ailure> I think they are based on time and uhm
16:23:46  <Ailure> if they're overused
16:23:50  <Ailure> well
16:23:56  <Ailure> alot in openTTD dosen't make sense
16:24:12  <Ailure> road vehicles costs even if they are parked at a station
16:24:21  <Zevensoft> fuel costs heh
16:24:22  <Ailure> they're runnning according to the game
16:24:26  <Ailure> but at 0 km/h
16:24:48  <peter1138> all vehicles have running costs unless they're stopped
16:24:57  <Zevensoft> merely having a road vehicle removes your chance at 100% company rating
16:25:03  <peter1138> as in not doing anything at all
16:25:15  <Zevensoft> unless you can get a massive route
16:25:15  <peter1138> Zevensoft: not with inflation on, heh
16:25:17  <Ailure> infact, having profitable road vehicles late into the game
16:25:20  <Zevensoft> heh
16:25:24  <Ailure> is tricky
16:25:53  <Zevensoft> a pipe dream would be road upgrades
16:25:58  <Zevensoft> like the rail systems
16:26:05  <Zevensoft> with highways and such
16:26:20  <Zevensoft> higher speeds
16:26:39  <Ailure> road vehicles needs to be a bit more useful
16:26:43  <Ailure> same for ships
16:26:46  <Zevensoft> oh I thought of something
16:26:58  <Zevensoft> maybe a control for how fast a train goes
16:27:01  <Ailure> I seen people who create a station on water
16:27:05  <Ailure> instead of using oil tankers
16:27:08  <Zevensoft> the harder you push it == less reliable
16:27:10  <Ailure> train station that is
16:27:20  <Zevensoft> harder you push train == more likely to derail
16:27:26  <Zevensoft> its an idea
16:27:41  <Ailure> well I assume that the trains in the game dosen't push the engien too hard as of now :P
16:27:52  <Zevensoft> they're unrealistic though
16:27:54  <Ailure> like some of the trains in the UKRS
16:27:59  <Ailure> rarely reaches their maximium speed
16:28:02  <Zevensoft> no train ever goes at its top speed every run
16:28:05  <Ailure> like their IRL equilants
16:28:14  <Zevensoft> it would be too dangerous
16:28:19  <Zevensoft> yeah
16:28:33  <Zevensoft> hrm
16:28:45  <Ailure> well I swear that huge part of the train travels here
16:28:53  <Zevensoft> I wonder how far off all new graphics are
16:28:55  <Ailure> involves slowing down at stations XD
16:29:12  <Ailure> eh I prefer the old graphics personally
16:29:38  <Zevensoft> I wouldnt mind redoing the terrain, but I have no idea how to edit grf
16:29:39  <Ailure> though then I hadn't looked at the 32 bit thing progress
16:30:35  <Ailure> ok some of the new graphics are nice though
16:30:49  <Ailure> http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Image:5-lumbermill-b_172.jpg
16:30:56  <Ailure> I see thoose sawmills IRL all the time
16:31:08  <Ailure> and looks better than the current one D:
16:31:30  <Ailure> hmm ok I changed my mind
16:31:37  <Ailure> alot if it have progressed somewhat better
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16:36:33  <Ailure> before some of it made me think on "textured box" instead of buildings XD
16:38:22  <Ailure> hah
16:38:24  <Ailure> I just realized
16:39:00  <Ailure> the "Build ship docks" button in the menu looks like a canal but TT and TTDX didn't have canals
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16:47:30  <Darkvater> Ailure: :)
16:48:46  *** Tron [~tron@84.163.209.24] has joined #openttd
16:48:52  <Darkvater> wb Tron
16:49:08  <Tron> yay, 300 jiggabites more for pr0n
16:50:12  <hylje> yay
16:50:23  <lws1984> :o
16:50:28  <lws1984> pr0ns!
16:50:36  <Brianetta> provisional yey.  What kind of pr0n?
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16:53:01  <Tron> wow, newfs told me where it places the about 1400 (!) alternate superblocks
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17:01:31  <peter1138> hmm
17:01:40  <peter1138> ok, i appear to have money
17:02:17  <Sacro> peter1138: pub?>
17:02:20  <peter1138> good idea
17:03:25  * Darkvater has an even better idea
17:03:29  <Darkvater> donate it to me :)
17:04:01  <Darkvater> who likes my idea? ;)
17:04:43  <peter1138> :<
17:06:10  <Sacro> Darkvater: well you...and possibly Mrs Darkvater
17:07:23  <Darkvater> :)
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17:14:58  <Darkvater> crap, having windows98 on a 512MB partition really makes it hard to install VC6
17:15:15  <Sacro> Darkvater: heh, im impressed you fit 98 on
17:15:22  <hylje> peter1138: :<
17:15:30  <Darkvater> I have 100MB free :)
17:15:38  <hylje> my freebsd just ran out of space on /usr
17:15:47  <Darkvater> hmm what if I delete all cab files...
17:16:06  <Sacro> Darkvater: you cant install VS6?
17:16:31  <Darkvater> I don't want to install, just copy over an installed version
17:16:41  <Darkvater> works out of the box if I change about 2 registry keys
17:17:30  <Darkvater> hehe it boots :D
17:17:32  *** Mucht [~Mucht@p57A0E995.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
17:17:34  <Darkvater> 121MB more free
17:18:14  <peter1138> why did i close the todo list?
17:18:23  <Tron> /dev/ad4s1     271G    4.0K    249G     0%    /mnt
17:18:24  <peter1138> ah, found it :)
17:18:38  <Sacro> peter1138: because your an ignorant monkey who doesnt know any better/?
17:18:38  <peter1138> 271-4=249 :D
17:18:48  <peter1138> "you're"
17:19:10  <peter1138> or rather... 271000000-4=249000000
17:19:29  <hylje> you found a WTF
17:19:30  <Darkvater> he
17:19:35  <Tron> minimum free space threshold is 8%
17:19:36  <Darkvater> clean win98 install, 276MB
17:19:57  <Tron> only root is allowed to fill the disk entierly
17:20:13  <Darkvater> pfft, who needs root :)
17:20:25  <Tron> it's not sensible to fill a disk to 100% anyway
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17:30:37  <Tron> mkay, MUCH better
17:30:50  <Tron> forgot to activate softupdates on the filesystem
17:31:00  <Tron> it was /dead/slow to say the least
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17:33:47  <peter1138> 29 seconds for a DEP? ;)
17:34:30  <Tron> several minutes for a simutrans checkout
17:34:47  <Tron> and the repo is on a disk in the same box
17:35:08  <peter1138> hmm
17:36:41  <Tron> well, all disk accesses were synchronous, with deactivated write cache, of course
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17:45:05  <peter1138> Darkvater: hmm, re: 29
17:45:11  <peter1138> just spent £40,000,000 on planes
17:45:19  <peter1138> all of it showed in the right place
17:45:56  <Sacro> peter1138: even the luggage?
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17:48:04  <hylje> £40,000,000 on planes!
17:48:41  <Sacro> hylje: tis a lot of snakes
17:52:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... if i found out that, when a train is already waiting in front of a PBS signal, it does not recheck if it can now reserve a PBS path, how would i find the appropriate function where this was calculated?
17:53:56  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: print out the sourcecode, paste it to your wall and grab a dart?
17:54:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> lack of darts, sorry...
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17:55:37  <Born_Acorn> (17:18:38) <peter1138> why did i close the todo list? <-- You're finished? :p
17:57:34  * peter1138 finishes Born_Acorn
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17:59:24  <Born_Acorn> D:
17:59:31  * Born_Acorn finishes Newindustries
18:07:05  *** Rens2Eat is now known as Rens2Sea
18:08:02  <Sacro> Born_Acorn! newindustries!
18:08:12  <Born_Acorn> nooooo
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18:10:12  * peter1138 finishes going hom
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18:10:15  <peter1138> argh
18:10:17  * peter1138 finishes going home
18:10:38  <Wolf01> hi
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18:13:34  <CIA-1> maedhros * r7103 /branches/newhouses/ (63 files in 7 dirs): [NewHouses] -Sync with trunk r7016:7102.
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18:34:41  <Darkvater> peter1138: #29: ok. want to close FS or shall I?
18:36:02  *** lws1984 is now known as lws
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18:42:42  <CIA-1> miham * r7104 /trunk/lang/ (german.txt portuguese.txt turkish.txt):
18:42:42  <CIA-1> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-11-07 19:41:56
18:42:42  <CIA-1> german - 1 changed by Neonox (1)
18:42:42  <CIA-1> portuguese - 5 fixed by izhirahider (5)
18:42:42  <CIA-1> turkish - 8 fixed, 4 changed by jnmbk (12)
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19:02:03  <Stanton> Hi
19:03:28  <peter1138> hi
19:05:16  <Darkvater> whohoo, trunk/ compiles with VS6 :)
19:05:20  <Darkvater> (without YAPF)
19:05:21  <Darkvater> hehe
19:05:57  <peter1138> hemm
19:06:02  <peter1138> how useful ;p
19:06:07  <peter1138> are we keeping NPF?
19:06:08  <blathijs> And you want that, why?
19:06:09  <Darkvater> vs2003/2005 doesn't run on win98 :)
19:06:13  <blathijs> haha
19:06:23  <Darkvater> oh blathijs ...
19:06:31  <Darkvater> blathijs: you do know I have 2 tasks for you?
19:06:41  <blathijs> IRL kinda got in the way of my mempool plans for this week...
19:06:44  <blathijs> s/I//
19:06:53  <Darkvater> and npf memleaks...
19:06:54  <blathijs> What's the second task?
19:06:59  <blathijs> oh, right...
19:07:14  <blathijs> I'll throw it onto my mental todo-pile
19:07:23  <Darkvater> hope it's a short one
19:07:31  *** lws|Away is now known as lws1984
19:07:38  <blathijs> I didn't use the word "pile" for nothing...
19:07:48  <Stanton> lol
19:08:04  <blathijs> But I'll see what I can do :-)
19:08:09  <Darkvater> good :_
19:08:10  <Darkvater> :)
19:08:33  <blathijs> I'm slowly running out of deadlines, so I can probably start postponing things again soon ;-)
19:09:04  <Darkvater> why the hell does tounicode work and doesn't work on win98?
19:09:05  <Darkvater> dammit
19:09:23  <Stanton> is there addons for ottd??
19:09:41  <blathijs> because Unicode wasn't invented back when win98 was built?
19:09:42  <blathijs> ;-p
19:09:49  * blathijs is off for some tea
19:09:55  <Stanton> oh tea!
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19:10:51  <Darkvater> blathijs: it has unicode support layer
19:12:48  <glx> Minimum operating systems Windows NT 3.1  <-- maybe because of that
19:14:35  <Darkvater> ok but I had input working at a moment
19:14:48  <peter1138> you had? but you lost it...
19:14:48  <Darkvater> +plus toUnicode is present in the system libraries
19:15:01  <Darkvater> yeah I donnu..I even pasted some unicode text into the console ;)
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19:22:21  <MeusH> hello
19:23:06  *** _42_ [truelight@openttd.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:23:36  <MeusH> can you please help me with German grammar? Partizip zwei
19:23:41  <MeusH> with modal verbs
19:24:31  <Tron> i guess this qualifies as metaquestion
19:24:40  <MeusH> does "Jemand {modal verb}... {verb}" change into "Jemand hat ... {verb} {modal verb}"?
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19:25:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> do you have any particular example?
19:25:51  <peter1138> hmm
19:25:53  <peter1138> where was i?
19:26:28  <Tron> milkyway, sol, earth?
19:26:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> usually, you cannot ask native speakers about abstract grammar
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19:26:51  <MeusH> Wir können uns eine solche Reise nicht leisten > Wir hat uns eine solche Reise nich liesten gekönnt?
19:26:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, you can ask, but do not expect too much of a useful answer
19:27:01  <MeusH> hmm
19:27:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> that 2nd sentence is absolute rubbish
19:27:43  <hylje> AA?
19:27:56  <Darkvater> 19:34 <@Darkvater> peter1138: #29: ok. want to close FS or shall I?
19:28:00  <Tron> "Wir haben uns eine solche Reise nicht leisten können"
19:28:16  <MeusH> thanks
19:28:24  <MeusH> oh, my bad, automaticly retyping "hat"
19:28:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> that sounds a little ancient
19:29:56  <MeusH> Does it mean "We couldn't arrange a lucky travel for us"?
19:30:05  <MeusH> well, something similiar? :P
19:30:15  <ln-> where do you find "lucky" in that?
19:30:15  <Tron> no
19:30:25  <MeusH> solche?
19:30:32  <MeusH> or does it mean "great"?
19:30:35  <ln-> no
19:30:41  <Tron> such
19:31:25  <MeusH> okies, thanks a lot
19:31:37  <Tron> "We can't afford such a trip"
19:32:06  <Tron> "sich etw. leisten" doesn't mean "arrange"
19:32:38  <MeusH> does lesiten mean "have sufficient funds?"
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19:33:23  <Tron> yes, "sich etw. leisten können" -> "to be able to afford smth."
19:34:05  <MeusH> thank you
19:34:25  <peter1138> is it me
19:34:31  <peter1138> or is the tgp window a mess in non-english?
19:34:39  <peter1138> err
19:34:43  <peter1138> s/tgp/world generation/
19:35:15  <MeusH> yes, some strings overlap
19:35:38  <MeusH> like "clockwise", which is "zgodnie ze wskazówkami zegara" or "zgodnie z kierunkiem wskazówek zegara" in Polish
19:36:02  <Tron> it's /HOW/ long?
19:36:56  <Belugas> peter1138: in french, it looks fine
19:37:16  <Belugas> there is only one string that can be shorten a tiny little bit
19:38:44  <ln-> peter1138: the space for "Date" is too short for finnish.
19:41:29  <Noldo> :)
19:42:04  <Noldo> it must be that guy Lönroth's fault!
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19:44:00  <MeusH> Tron, I shortened "Zgodnie ze wskazówkami zegara" to "Zg. ze wsk. zegara" and noone complained so far
19:44:42  <Sacro> its gone from something long that makes no sense to something shorter... that makes no sense
19:45:02  <Tron> what does it mean literally?
19:45:24  <Sacro> Tron: "Zgodnie ze wskazówkami zegara" presumably :p
19:50:51  <Darkvater> dammit
19:50:52  <MeusH> Zgodnie - consistent, -wise; zegar - clock; wskazówki - hands of the clock; ze - with
19:50:57  <Darkvater> anyone got windows98 cd around?
19:51:12  <MeusH> we just don't say clockwise, but clockhandwise :)
19:51:23  <MeusH> Darkvater: I've got windows95 :P
19:51:29  <hylje> !
19:51:29  <Darkvater> no 98
19:53:57  <Sacro> Darkvater: me possibly
19:54:01  <Sacro> or i can find Bobingabout
19:54:28  <Darkvater> nvm now :)
19:54:32  <Darkvater> installed ghost explorer
19:54:47  <Darkvater> I have the cd as animage but didn't have a program to pen with :)
19:57:27  <Wolf01> cd image -> ghost explorer? i missed something
19:57:36  <Darkvater> ghost image
19:57:44  <Wolf01> ah ok
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20:18:28  <kbrooks> so, does anyone here want an interactive explanation of how signals work and what they are? if so, please hop onto Free4All.
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20:24:12  <Sacro> kbrooks: ?
20:24:19  * peter1138 knows how they work
20:24:27  <peter1138> it involves the pathfinder
20:28:16  <Darkvater> is websvn down?
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20:28:25  <Born_Acorn> and red and green pixels!
20:29:03  <Darkvater> peter1138: lol FS#371 now it's crashing ;p
20:29:50  <peter1138> yeah
20:29:52  <peter1138> useful
20:31:48  <peter1138> woo, AN-225
20:31:55  <peter1138> in flightgear, heh
20:33:13  *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@89.14.84.211] has joined #openttd
20:33:31  <Darkvater> hiya Celestar
20:33:39  <hylje> HI
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20:33:47  <Sacro> Celestar!
20:34:02  <peter1138> hmm, biggg
20:34:31  <Darkvater> Celestar: will you be working on #32?
20:34:36  <Darkvater> Celestar: http://darkvater.homeip.net/~tfarago/openttd/0.5.0_todo.txt
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20:37:44  <ln-> why should they be optional?
20:38:08  <Darkvater> cause some people like to play without it and not bother (multiplayer)
20:38:54  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7105 /branches/utf8/video/win32_v.c:
20:38:54  <CIA-1> [utf8] -Regression (r7081): Keyboard input was lost on Win9x as it does not have a
20:38:54  <CIA-1>  working ToUnicode() function.
20:40:57  <ln-> Darkvater: the "Configure Patches" thing should be renamed to something completely different.
20:41:46  <Belugas> "Administrate Options"
20:41:47  <Belugas> :)
20:42:20  *** ttj [~tjorri@kosh.hut.fi] has quit [Server closed connection]
20:42:28  <Born_Acorn> "Settings Fiddler"
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20:43:03  <Belugas> "Bag Of Tricks"
20:43:54  <XeryusTC> "Tick me"
20:45:20  <ln-> gaaaah, why can't one even by now connect regular rails and elrails?? it's only a few lines of code.
20:45:42  *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@dD5E03E97.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Whoopsy]
20:46:26  <peter1138> write it then
20:47:14  <ln-> peter1138: there: http://users.utu.fi/lanurm/ottd/rail-elrail-intersection-automagic-conversion.diff
20:47:28  <peter1138> that was quick
20:47:43  <peter1138> IsRailTypeCompatible?
20:47:44  <peter1138> but...
20:48:30  <ln-> peter1138: but i know, someone told me a similar function already exists.
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21:01:46  <peter1138> ah well
21:02:41  <peter1138> i must admit
21:02:42  *** DJ_Mirage [~martijn@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: www.sexybiggetje.nl]
21:02:59  <peter1138> the way it always converts the railtype even if it's just a cost query is nice
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21:15:14  <Darkvater> wb
21:15:17  <peter1138> hmm
21:15:32  <peter1138> miss much?
21:15:37  <peter1138> thanks
21:15:39  <Darkvater> nothing
21:16:11  <peter1138> ok
21:16:19  <peter1138> how to decide which railtype is better?
21:19:14  <Darkvater> the pretty one :)
21:19:19  <peter1138> ok
21:23:10  <peter1138> we could currently assume the railtype with the highest index is the better one
21:23:34  <ln-> better in what way?
21:23:50  <peter1138> well... elrail is better than non-elrail
21:24:07  <peter1138> for obvious reason
21:24:09  <peter1138> +s
21:25:24  <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/o/autoconvert.diff
21:28:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, one could prepare a quasi-ordering, for future extensibility
21:28:54  * peter1138 nods
21:29:19  <Wolf01> gdis
21:29:33  <peter1138> pardon?
21:29:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> then you'd need a function to get a common successor
21:29:41  <Wolf01> command & conquer
21:29:49  <Wolf01> nod & gdi
21:30:05  <Darkvater> peter1138: is that for the AI?
21:30:42  <peter1138> no
21:30:50  <peter1138> it's for us
21:30:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, for on-the-fly conversion of rail types, if you e.g. drag new normal rail over existing electric track
21:31:14  <Darkvater> ah
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21:32:34  * Wolf01 wonders crossings between railtypes (maglev and railroad, railroad and monorail)
21:32:49  <peter1138> Wolf01: they're called bridges
21:33:24  <glx> or tunnels
21:33:27  <Wolf01> [22:32:40] * Wolf01 wonders crossings at the same height between railtypes (maglev and railroad, railroad and monorail)
21:33:35  <peter1138> no ;p
21:33:37  <peter1138> well
21:33:43  <peter1138> you enable the tunnel cheat
21:33:50  <Wolf01> doh
21:33:52  <Wolf01> XD
21:34:23  <kbrooks> what tunnel cheat?
21:34:56  <kbrooks> i have a question. is there a way to do subway type things?
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21:36:35  <kbrooks> e.g. underground rail
21:37:51  <peter1138> no
21:37:57  <peter1138> except by pretending
21:38:08  <peter1138> and the tunnel cheat is in the list of cheats...
21:38:18  <peter1138> unless i'm imagining it
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21:39:36  <kbrooks> ah, tunnels may cross each other
21:40:29  <peter1138> Darkvater: ok with it?
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21:42:14  <Darkvater> what does it exactly do? magic autoconvert or something/
21:42:57  <peter1138> yes
21:43:09  <peter1138> converts normal to elrail if you place elrail over normal
21:43:21  <peter1138> or just places normal if you place normal over elrail
21:43:25  <peter1138> (yay for describing shit)
21:43:26  <kbrooks> i'd like to propose an idea
21:43:29  <Darkvater> just that?
21:43:34  <kbrooks> lets see.
21:43:35  <peter1138> yes
21:43:37  <Darkvater> what about maglev/mono?
21:43:39  <peter1138> and it charges properly
21:43:44  <peter1138> they aren't compatible rail types
21:43:46  <Darkvater> or there is compatibility check
21:43:52  <peter1138> so they behave as before
21:44:29  <kbrooks> if someone buy up exactly 75 percent of a transport company, they can have some limited form of control
21:44:47  <kbrooks> "control" being over the transport company
21:44:55  <peter1138> kbrooks: no
21:45:01  <Darkvater> peter1138: hmm is there some calcuation as to what rails are compatible?
21:45:04  <kbrooks> peter1138, it is a idea
21:45:28  <peter1138> Darkvater: there's an IsCompatibleRail() that's been around since before elrail was put in
21:45:33  <Darkvater> ok
21:45:35  <Darkvater> good then
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21:46:00  <peter1138> no guess work except for we assume the highest railtype is preferred
21:46:21  <peter1138> (converting elrail to normal wouldn't be very useful)
21:46:31  <Darkvater> yeah
21:46:46  <Darkvater> hmm how the dell did I get IsDebuggerAttached() linked into the binary?
21:46:49  <kbrooks> peter1138, why not?
21:47:08  <peter1138> um? :)
21:47:22  <peter1138> kbrooks: because what is "limited form of control"?
21:47:49  *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone
21:47:52  <peter1138> there is a subsidiaries patch (which is in the miniin) which allows various extra things
21:47:58  <Belugas_Gone> night all
21:48:01  <kbrooks> peter1138, i'm asking about <peter1138> (converting elrail to normal wouldn't be very useful). anyways, i'm not sure.
21:48:11  <kbrooks> peter1138, i saw that :-)
21:48:11  <peter1138> oh
21:48:20  <peter1138> doing it automatically i mean
21:48:26  <kbrooks> peter1138, and i liked it
21:50:27  <peter1138> i liked track sharing
21:50:36  <peter1138> never found company control particularly useful
21:51:44  <kbrooks> can you use newgrf in multiplayer?
21:51:48  <peter1138> yes
21:51:52  <kbrooks> er?
21:52:13  <Sacro> me and peter1138 do
21:52:22  <kbrooks> i dont see why... what if i dont have the newgrf files in multiplayer?
21:52:27  <kbrooks> er
21:52:34  <kbrooks> that another player has
21:52:46  <peter1138> i see
21:52:50  *** dasy2k1 [~das@88-106-21-196.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd
21:52:55  <peter1138> and that should stop people who do have the same grf files from enjoying them?
21:53:00  <Darkvater> hmm, what if you want to convert back though cause elrails costs so much...perhaps the function could be changed to just overbuild?
21:53:14  <peter1138> Darkvater: then you'd just use the convert tool?
21:53:29  <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/o/ac3.png
21:53:31  <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/o/ac4.png
21:53:33  <Darkvater> hmm, but why would I use this now? :p
21:53:39  <kbrooks> peter1138, let me redo  my question
21:53:50  <kbrooks> hi dasy2k1
21:53:54  <Darkvater> ah point taken peter1138
21:54:05  <kbrooks> dasy2k1, rename yourself maybe
21:54:16  <kbrooks> dasy2k1, er nm
21:54:32  <kbrooks> dasy2k1, i  thought ur nickname was dasy2k on my server
21:54:34  <kbrooks> sry
21:54:47  <peter1138> go on then, rephrase
21:55:25  <Wolf01> what about the ttdpatch feature which draws the catenary only over electrified tracks also in junctions?
21:55:44  <peter1138> that's unrelated
21:56:00  <peter1138> not that it's not possible
21:56:06  <kbrooks> if a newgrf fileis missing that is required by another player, what happens?
21:56:09  *** Zevensoft [~Zevensoft@220-253-32-72.VIC.netspace.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:56:15  <peter1138> kbrooks: then you'll get disconnected
21:56:19  *** `Alex` [Alexander@195.252.90.249] has joined #openttd
21:56:22  <peter1138> however
21:56:34  <peter1138> there will soon be stuff preventing you from connecting in the first place
21:56:44  <`Alex`> hi all
21:56:54  <dasy2k1> are there any servers that use MiniIN ?
21:56:56  <kbrooks> peter1138, in-game still? what if the other player puts in something requiring a newgrf file thats missing
21:57:00  <`Alex`> can someone help me with a problem?
21:57:08  * dasy2k1 is new to openttd multiplayer
21:57:12  <peter1138> kbrooks: ...
21:57:16  <Maedhros> `Alex`: that depends on the problem ;)
21:57:21  <peter1138> kbrooks: then the file will be missing and you can't connect...
21:57:38  <kbrooks> peter1138, i am referring to ingame
21:57:48  <kbrooks> not while connecting
21:58:04  <peter1138> if you can't connect, then you can't get ingame...
21:58:15  <peter1138> is there some bit of logic i'm missing?
21:58:31  <MeusH> peter1138, you're the developer who's going to code pre-join checks?
21:58:37  <`Alex`> do you guys know why in openttd in the africa scenario the the terrain in some part of the map starts to change?
21:58:38  <kbrooks> e.g. connecting: OK. IN GAME: <other player> puts in something which requires a newgrf file
21:58:46  <peter1138> MeusH: s/going to code/has coded/
21:58:57  <MeusH> okay :p
21:59:09  <kbrooks> peter1138, see ^^^
21:59:11  <peter1138> kbrooks: please, think what you're asking
21:59:24  <Maedhros> kbrooks: then he has already loaded a newgrf that you don't have, and thus you won't be able to connect to the same game
21:59:24  <MeusH> Is it possible to check whether the server is pure in multiplayer lobby?
21:59:33  <Sacro> pure?
21:59:36  <MeusH> in peter1138's patch
21:59:50  <MeusH> no twelve weird newgrfs
21:59:52  <peter1138> Sacro: s/pure/boring/
21:59:59  <peter1138> MeusH: but yes... of course
22:00:04  <Sacro> lol
22:00:08  <`Alex`> does anybody hear me?
22:00:19  <MeusH> and possibly some filters? no newgrfs/newgrfs I own/all?
22:00:30  <kbrooks> Maedhros, uh, i'm talking about if i connected, and another player put in something which requires a newgrf file
22:00:34  <dasy2k1> yes Alex, hearing you lould and clear
22:00:38  <`Alex`> so?
22:00:51  <dasy2k1> no idea...
22:00:57  <MeusH> I'm asking this because I can't play Enemy Territory for a some time, because each server I join has different mod/map/skin/music/rubbish, 12MB each
22:01:01  <peter1138> kbrooks: you CANNOT connect without that newgrf in the first place
22:01:28  <Maedhros> kbrooks: you can't load newgrfs after the game has started
22:01:30  <peter1138> MeusH: well, i'm definitely not implementing autodownloading either
22:01:31  <MeusH> kbrooks, peter1138 is saying that such a situation is impossible
22:01:34  <`Alex`> Ok then do anybody know who could i ask and who might know?
22:01:38  <MeusH> great peter1138
22:01:56  <MeusH> to what?
22:01:56  <peter1138> why is my download so slow...
22:01:57  <kbrooks> peter1138, why not?
22:02:00  <MeusH> desert>grass?
22:02:00  <peter1138> or is it my upload. hmm.
22:02:15  <peter1138> kbrooks, *sigh*
22:02:18  <kbrooks> peter1138, erm
22:02:22  <kbrooks> rephrasing
22:02:25  <MeusH> `Alex`, or is it grass>desert?
22:02:41  <Maedhros> `Alex`: are you playing with the AI enabled? it has a tendency to drastically remodel the landscape at random...
22:02:46  <`Alex`> yes
22:02:55  <`Alex`> it does that. why?
22:02:56  <kbrooks> <peter1138> MeusH: well, i'm definitely not implementing autodownloading either < Why dont you want to implement auto downloading of newgrfs?
22:03:09  *** Viktho1 [~Vikthor@snat2.arachne.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:03:19  <dasy2k1> oh good greif does it ever, in miniin it tends to clear large parts of land then raise anmd lowerr it all the time
22:03:21  <kbrooks> it would be a nice feature
22:03:27  *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat2.arachne.cz] has joined #openttd
22:03:33  <dasy2k1> really anoying me
22:03:37  <Vikthor> co bylo posledni co jsem ?ekl?
22:03:45  <Vikthor> sorry wrong window
22:03:57  <`Alex`> when it happens my cpu goes 100% and everything gets choppy
22:04:00  <kbrooks> Vikthor, czech, eh?
22:04:06  <Vikthor> yes
22:04:10  <dasy2k1> eww
22:04:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> kbrooks: licensing and bandwidth problems
22:04:21  <MeusH> richk67 is the author of "Africa and Middle East" scenario for OpenTTD
22:04:21  <dasy2k1> what spech CPU do you have
22:04:31  <peter1138> MeusH: http://fuzzle.org/o/grfgui/11.png
22:04:42  <peter1138> MeusH: sort of like that, but with lots more polish
22:04:44  <`Alex`> richk67, where can i find him?
22:04:45  <peter1138> (not polish)
22:04:57  <`Alex`> i have 900Mhz Celleron
22:04:58  <peter1138> hmm, and finished off ;p
22:05:09  <dasy2k1> i am using an 800MHZ and im ok...
22:05:19  <dasy2k1> it goies up a bit but not too high
22:05:34  <dasy2k1> (unless im being stupid with loads of otehr stuff in teh background
22:05:38  <MeusH> peter1138, blue means "running on the server" and red means "avaible at client side"?
22:05:43  <dasy2k1> like compiling another version
22:05:50  <peter1138> no :)
22:05:56  <peter1138> red means not available
22:06:01  <MeusH> `Alex`, richk67 is pretty often here
22:06:02  <peter1138> but it will have text as well
22:06:14  <MeusH> so, red means "go download it if you want to play here"?
22:06:15  <peter1138> cos relying on different colour dots is silly
22:06:18  <peter1138> yeah
22:06:22  <MeusH> okies :)
22:07:08  <MeusH> `Alex`, does the terrain change to desert to the point there is no grass?
22:07:09  *** Turski [~tarmo@dsl-kpogw1-fe21df00-2.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
22:07:20  <MeusH> so eventually all map goes desert?
22:07:26  <`Alex`> no it does it any any terrain
22:08:10  <MeusH> So desert goes grassy, and grass changes into desert? all the time?
22:08:11  <dasy2k1> i#sounds like its just being cleared not changing
22:08:20  <`Alex`> no not like that
22:08:24  <dasy2k1> if it wansent moved again it wodl return to normal
22:08:26  <MeusH> are you the only player? or there is an AI?
22:08:28  *** BJH2_ [~chatzilla@e176099088.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.12/20050915]]
22:08:38  <`Alex`> yes there are ai
22:08:39  <MeusH> AI tend to raise/lower land like maniacs
22:09:03  <MeusH> try playing without AI or on a different map (with AI) to see if this behaviour is present there, too
22:09:09  <`Alex`> yes that
22:09:22  <peter1138> brown isn't orange, heh
22:09:47  <MeusH> peter1138, do you plan filtering the list?
22:10:16  <peter1138> not yet
22:10:24  <peter1138> could have yet another icon or something
22:10:37  <MeusH> yeah, I thought about that
22:10:46  <MeusH> someone made an extended multiplayer window
22:10:51  <MeusH> with lots of filters
22:10:53  <MeusH> have you seen that?
22:11:23  <peter1138> no, but i find lots of filters just confuse things
22:12:15  <MeusH> well it's nicely grouped and it's at least useful for me...
22:12:31  <MeusH> I'll find a forum thread about it
22:12:35  <MeusH> it may be worth looking at
22:12:40  <MeusH> but now, it's a bed time
22:13:02  <MeusH> goodnight
22:13:06  *** MeusH [~MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has quit [Quit: bye - quit]
22:13:06  *** e1ko [~L@a02-0432b.kn.vutbr.cz] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.67+ [SeaMonkey 1.0.5/2006091003]]
22:13:07  <`Alex`> gn
22:14:22  *** Zevensoft [~Zevensoft@220-253-40-42.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #openttd
22:14:49  <dasy2k1> yeiks, i have jsut got alexes save file and it is tru#ying to change teh terrain mid game....
22:14:51  <dasy2k1> wierd
22:16:07  <`Alex`> so what do i do?
22:16:33  <peter1138> where's the save?
22:17:23  <`Alex`> dasy give it to them
22:19:05  <dasy2k1> how,  i dont know teh irc dcommand to do it...
22:19:32  <`Alex`> alt+s
22:19:53  <dasy2k1> tahst jsut opends the settinsg menu
22:19:56  <Maedhros> good night
22:20:21  <dasy2k1> ah found it
22:20:26  *** Maedhros [~jc@host86-140-197-179.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: night]
22:20:35  <dasy2k1> jsut right click on username
22:20:37  <dasy2k1> :)
22:20:59  <dasy2k1> you got it peter1138?
22:21:23  <`Alex`> africa looks nice with snow and palmtrees
22:21:29  <dasy2k1> LOL yeh
22:23:28  <`Alex`> did i loose something with that cheat like rating and such?
22:23:48  <dasy2k1> shoudlent do
22:24:00  <dasy2k1> all it will do is remain red in cheats
22:24:05  <peter1138> no but it'll probably crash at some point
22:24:19  <dasy2k1> hopefully next time you play on sub tropical you shoudlent have to
22:24:44  <`Alex`> Ok thanx
22:25:37  <dasy2k1> anyone know of a server taht uses miniIn on multiplayer
22:26:00  <`Alex`> what is miniIn?
22:26:22  <dasy2k1> Mini Integrated Nightly
22:26:35  <`Alex`> it it does what?
22:26:43  <dasy2k1> a nightly build with loads of extras added
22:26:49  <`Alex`> like?
22:26:56  <dasy2k1> like PBs
22:27:05  <`Alex`> is there a website?
22:27:12  <dasy2k1> yeh i will post it in a second
22:27:15  <dasy2k1> when i get teh URL
22:27:44  <dasy2k1> http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/MiniIN
22:27:55  <Wolf01> question: should be possible to limit the number of wagons for a specific engine with a grf set?
22:28:08  <dasy2k1> a good idea
22:28:09  <Sacro> Wolf01: ask patchman
22:28:14  <Darkvater> everyone put up your hands if you are using windows95/98
22:28:24  <dasy2k1> windows... whast that?
22:28:28  <kbrooks> Darkvater, win98 is old
22:28:55  <Darkvater> wow, I didn't know that
22:28:58  <`Alex`> man my game is still rendering the the arctic set on the mountains
22:29:13  <kbrooks> dasy2k1, an OS manufactured by an extremely monopolistic group, collectively named "Microsopoly"
22:29:20  <dasy2k1> lol
22:29:23  <dasy2k1> i know taht
22:29:34  <dasy2k1> tahst why i use linux
22:29:41  <Wolf01> sacro, but if is possible for The Patch, OTTD will support it?
22:29:52  <kbrooks> dasy2k1, i HAD to poke fun at microsoft + be serious too
22:29:59  <`Alex`> i tried knoppix but couldn't get my adsl modem to work
22:30:08  <dasy2k1> better to use a router
22:30:27  <Sacro> Wolf01: yes, but i dont know if its in the newgrf spec
22:30:31  <dasy2k1> but you can get ADSL modms working under suse, ubuntu and fedora form whatr i understand
22:30:36  <kbrooks> how do i increase my opeating profit, whatever it is
22:30:41  <`Alex`> really?
22:30:52  <`Alex`> operating profit?
22:30:54  <dasy2k1> check out www.linuxquestions.org
22:31:01  <`Alex`> will do
22:31:08  <dasy2k1> they have a hardwaree compatabilaty list (HCL)
22:31:12  <`Alex`> one day when my winxp crashes again
22:31:16  <kbrooks> `Alex`, uh, its profit from operating an company, i assume
22:31:19  <Sacro> Wolf01: patchman says "callback 1D"
22:31:32  <`Alex`> oh in that graph....
22:31:36  <dasy2k1> Kbrokes, just deliver more cargo as efficantly as possable
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22:31:47  <kbrooks> dasy2k1, "efficiently"?
22:31:59  <dasy2k1> ysh sorry misspelling i think
22:32:01  <`Alex`> more cargo on greater distances in less time.....
22:32:03  <kbrooks> what do you mmean, efficiently?
22:32:07  <dasy2k1> and with less costs
22:32:18  <`Alex`> exactly
22:32:22  <dasy2k1> 1 train is often cheaper than several road vechules
22:32:28  <`Alex`> yes
22:32:33  <dasy2k1> less wasteage
22:32:46  <peter1138> Wolf01: Sacro: we support that
22:32:52  <kbrooks> dasy2k1, i dont have several road schedules, xbut i do have
22:32:53  <kbrooks> h/o
22:33:03  <`Alex`> but you can't shove a railroad in every town
22:33:04  <Sacro> peter1138: wooyay!
22:33:08  <dasy2k1> make tracks teh shortest way and run long full trains
22:33:18  <dasy2k1> true
22:33:27  <peter1138> Sacro: it's what stops freight being put on (some) passengers engines in ukrs
22:33:41  <Sacro> peter1138: ive never noticed it
22:33:48  <dasy2k1> best used for high volume traffic like coal or iron ore
22:33:48  <Sacro> though i thought dbsetxl had something similar
22:33:54  <Sacro> ahh yes, the maglevs
22:34:03  <peter1138> s/something similar/exactly the same/
22:34:11  <dasy2k1> they cost masses to run
22:34:25  <dasy2k1> i cant get a maglev running at profit nomatter how full it is
22:34:25  *** Wolfenstiejn [~wolf@h33083.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
22:34:32  <dasy2k1> (using UKRS)
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22:34:43  <`Alex`> the maglevs really show op on long distance freights
22:35:00  <kbrooks> lets see, i have farm -> goods factory -> truck to city
22:35:02  <Guest52835> peter1138: Sacro: ok, thanks
22:35:10  <kbrooks> wait
22:35:22  <peter1138> dasy2k1: works for me
22:35:29  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7106 /trunk/rail_cmd.c:
22:35:29  <CIA-1> -Feature: Allow over-building of compatible railtypes, i.e. normal and
22:35:29  <CIA-1> electrified rail. If building electrified rail, normal rail is upgraded
22:35:29  <CIA-1> for you (for the normal cost).
22:35:43  <peter1138> dasy2k1: although it was only fixed a few weeks ago
22:35:54  <dasy2k1> ah
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22:35:58  <kbrooks> also, i have iron ore -> steel mill -> goods factory. another truck -> city
22:36:21  <dasy2k1> kbrooks try farm >tarin> factory > truck > town
22:36:27  <dasy2k1> *train
22:36:30  <kbrooks> dasy2k1, i wouldnt :P
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22:37:01  <kbrooks> shit.
22:37:03  <peter1138> everything train :D
22:37:15  <dasy2k1> lol i like taht idea
22:37:37  <dasy2k1> but i use trucks for short stuff where the supply is dependant on another step
22:37:43  <kbrooks> but its sometimes impossible
22:37:50  <kbrooks> dasy2k1, like what?
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22:38:01  <dasy2k1> factory to town
22:38:08  <peter1138> hmm
22:38:09  <kbrooks> ah
22:38:12  <peter1138> feh
22:38:20  <peter1138> factory -> train to some city far away
22:38:21  <`Alex`> how do i cross competitor rail tracks?
22:38:31  <dasy2k1> because OTW i get a tarin wating for goods blocking the raw materials tarin
22:38:40  <dasy2k1> alex. with a bridge!
22:38:46  <dasy2k1> or a tunnel
22:38:50  <`Alex`> i don't think so
22:38:54  <peter1138> dasy2k1: that's what multiple platforms are for
22:39:00  <dasy2k1> yeh true
22:39:09  <`Alex`> try crossing a vertical or horizontal track
22:39:09  <dasy2k1> i had a 3 platform station there
22:39:27  <dasy2k1> ah, wonmt it jsut let you cross on teh level?
22:39:35  <`Alex`> no
22:39:40  <dasy2k1> and you can cross with a tunnel
22:39:44  <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/o/silly.png < bit silly, but profitable...
22:39:48  <dasy2k1> just lower teh land eitehr side
22:40:00  <Sacro> peter1138: hey, you expanded it
22:40:01  <`Alex`> water is lower
22:40:45  <dasy2k1> i like teh startions
22:40:46  <peter1138> yeah, heh
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22:40:58  <dasy2k1> i cnat get the startins newGRf to work :-(
22:41:11  <peter1138> Sacro: the forest got up to 2000+ tonnes
22:41:18  <Sacro> peter1138: hehe, impressive
22:41:23  <dasy2k1> gah its too low
22:41:25  <dasy2k1> YEIKS
22:41:27  <dasy2k1> tahst a lot
22:41:48  <dasy2k1> whats the best way to make a industry produce more goods?>
22:41:48  <kbrooks> thhats awful peter1138
22:41:57  <kbrooks> how exactly did u do that
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22:42:20  <kbrooks> nice elrails. or am i seeing  elrails or what?
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22:42:30  <Sacro> kbrooks: when i built the stations, it was 2 and 2, with 3 trains
22:42:49  <Sacro> i think it was about 220T a month
22:42:54  <Sacro> and it just kept increasing
22:42:55  <kbrooks> so then?
22:43:06  <peter1138> i guess it liked the regular service
22:43:15  <peter1138> or it's just lucky...
22:43:41  <dasy2k1> ah
22:43:52  <kbrooks> i see waypoints sometimes. when are they ever necessary?
22:44:07  <dasy2k1> to seperate fast and slow traffic
22:44:28  <`Alex`> or two trains on one line
22:45:19  <kbrooks> `Alex`, uh. what?
22:45:36  <`Alex`> ---=====--------
22:45:39  <`Alex`> like that
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22:45:54  <`Alex`> ---w=====w-----
22:46:15  <kbrooks> `Alex`, oh. but wont the trains crash if u mess it up?
22:46:25  <peter1138> waypoints are not signals, heh
22:46:28  <`Alex`> if you mess it up.....
22:46:37  <`Alex`> but if you don't
22:47:21  <`Alex`> you get one train waiting for the other to pass
22:47:37  <kbrooks> ah
22:48:24  <`Alex`> in theory
22:48:31  <dasy2k1> if i have quad track i have 4 waypoints, Up fast Up slow, Down fast, Down slow
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22:48:50  <`Alex`> figure it out
22:49:06  <Sacro> errr... i broke it
22:49:12  <dasy2k1> all passenger and mail on the fast (unless its local with a slow loco) and freight on the slow
22:49:36  <peter1138> broke what?
22:49:42  <Sacro> peter1138: the boats :(
22:49:44  <kbrooks> dasy2k1, ?
22:49:49  <Sacro> they cant find the way from bouy 5-6
22:50:51  <`Alex`> then make bouy 5a
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22:53:06  <kbrooks> how do i unlock a company that is protected? i'm the admin of a openttd server, and i'd like to enter a company and then delete some rail
22:53:44  <kbrooks> apparently, the company owner blocked a town out
22:53:56  <kbrooks> by putting in rail
22:56:12  <kbrooks> what are my remedies for this?
22:58:15  <`Alex`> buy it or with for it to go bankrubt
22:58:28  <`Alex`> *wait
22:58:36  <kbrooks> i deleted the company
22:58:40  <`Alex`> Ok
22:59:08  <kbrooks> (thanks anyway)
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23:00:04  <kbrooks> is there a tool for me to merge towns in 0.4.8?
23:01:29  *** `Alex` [Alexander@195.252.90.249] has quit []
23:01:57  <Darkvater> kbrooks: no
23:02:09  <CIA-2> Darkvater * r7107 /branches/utf8/win32.c: [utf8] -[win32] Add ability to paste in Unicode text, Windows95 will only paste ASCII
23:02:43  <kbrooks> ok, trunk?
23:03:28  <Darkvater> no
23:06:25  <Guest52835> gnight
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23:07:41  *** lws|Away is now known as lws1984
23:11:58  <dasy2k1> yawn... can i start my own server or do i need a special version to do taht?
23:12:07  <Darkvater> no
23:12:16  <Darkvater> (special version not needed)
23:12:47  <dasy2k1> i just noticed taht tehre was a dedicated server edition avalable
23:14:42  <dasy2k1> is that just a system daemon?
23:15:53  <Sacro> dasy2k1: it doesnt need SDL, it has no graphics or sound ouput
23:16:00  <dasy2k1> ah
23:17:48  <dasy2k1> that will make a good use fo rthis box when i am done with it
23:23:38  <dasy2k1> ah well mabie i will give it a go tomoro
23:23:44  <dasy2k1> but its late here.
23:23:49  <dasy2k1> im off to bed
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23:25:50  <CIA-2> Darkvater * r7108 /trunk/rail_cmd.c: -Fix (r7106): signed/unsigned comparison warning
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