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Log for #openttd on 16th December 2006:
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00:00:04  <Ailure> on the other, it's the road going over the railway
00:00:35  <Bjarni> it only took you an hour and a half to pick up that remark :P
00:02:37  <Bjarni> Ailure: DCC (I hope)
00:02:46  <Ailure> I was talking with some guys in a ROM hacking channel
00:02:49  <Ailure> so I was distracted
00:02:53  <Ailure> I accepted
00:03:08  <Bjarni> not here
00:03:12  <Bjarni> fucking router :(
00:03:54  <Ailure> well heh
00:04:11  <Ailure> I prefer putting stuff on my own web server :p
00:04:26  <Bjarni> that's what I'm doing right onw
00:04:28  <Bjarni> *now
00:05:53  <Bjarni> I wanted to show you 2 pictures that I got from some Swedish page. The page is mentioned in the pic, but I lost the actual link and it's a huge page so uploading it is quicker than refinding it
00:07:49  <Ailure> http://www.historiskt.nu/normalsp/staten/ssb/ssb_hassleholm_ca_1900.jpg
00:07:50  <Ailure> haha damn
00:07:56  <Ailure> that's the train station
00:07:59  <Ailure> where I live
00:08:01  <Ailure> but for 100 years ago
00:08:05  <Bjarni> http://devs.openttd.org/~bjarni/skeppsbron.jpg <-- streets of Malmö
00:08:06  <Ailure> that building still exists
00:08:11  <Ailure> but it's part of a more modern complex
00:08:25  <Ailure> hell
00:08:26  <Ailure> wow
00:08:30  <Ailure> this town have grown alot
00:08:43  <Ailure> if you took a photo on a similar location now
00:08:46  <Ailure> there would be alot of tall buildings
00:09:06  <Ailure> ah
00:09:21  <Bjarni> there is a station building in Denmark from 1847. They made it longer today, but the main building is the same and it's still in use
00:09:50  <Ailure> heh
00:09:57  <Ailure> It's funny how it's hybrisided
00:10:04  <Ailure> the overpass and a part of the station is raelly modern
00:10:09  <Ailure> but then there's also this really old part too
00:11:09  <Bjarni> Denmark was ruled by the king until 1849 where voting took over, so we got an active train station that was built in the days of (forgot the word for when a king rules a country)
00:11:34  <Ailure> monarchy
00:11:39  <Ailure> but there's severeal types of monarchy
00:11:41  <Bjarni> that's it
00:11:43  <Ailure> it's still a monarchy
00:11:46  <Ailure> but a democratic one
00:11:49  <Ailure> and I forgot the name for that
00:11:50  <Bjarni> it's was mo... something :P
00:11:53  <Ailure> or rather
00:12:02  <Ailure> it's a monarchy, but the king is politically powerless
00:12:06  <Bjarni> http://devs.openttd.org/~bjarni/031510.jpg <-- picture of a place in Sweden where they didn't try to split road and railroad
00:12:53  <Bjarni> also notice the lack of catenary... and it's Swedish
00:13:21  <Bjarni> so it's of the 10% that still lacks catenary
00:13:25  <Ailure> no idea where that is
00:13:34  <Ailure> well, I rarely see lines with catenary
00:13:40  <Ailure> when I see line without catenary
00:13:40  <Bjarni> o_O
00:13:44  <Ailure> it's either a industrial line
00:13:48  <Ailure> or a abondened one
00:13:59  <Ailure> ok i did see one expection
00:14:02  <Bjarni> or sidings
00:14:03  <Ailure> in Kristianstad
00:14:08  <Ailure> but they closed down teh line there
00:14:12  <Ailure> since they're putting up catenaries
00:14:28  <Ailure> I belive teh electrical are more economical in teh long run
00:14:55  <Ailure> funny
00:14:59  <Ailure> my college is named after the station too
00:15:07  <Ailure> so when I look after pictures of the train station here
00:15:11  <Ailure> I get pictures of my college
00:15:22  <Ailure> ironically, the college have nothing to do with trains
00:15:27  <Ailure> it's mostly IT courses
00:15:40  <Bjarni> politicians in Denmark are funny. We should not get catenary because electric aren't good enough compared to diesel (based on what?), and we haven't got enough electric trains to justify more catenary.... DSB orders new diesel trains because electric without catenary is useless
00:16:34  <Ailure> well
00:16:39  <Ailure> the electrical lines you seem to have
00:16:53  <Bjarni> electric trains are way cheaper when it comes to fuel economy and they are lighter as well, which saves on track maintenance
00:16:55  <Ailure> is between helsingör and copenhagen
00:17:02  <Ailure> which I actually have travelled
00:17:24  <Bjarni> that's the test line for catenary
00:17:26  <Ailure> and I can actually travel from here where I live
00:17:29  <Ailure> to helsingör
00:17:47  <Ailure> since the trains goes over the Öresundsbridge
00:18:07  <Bjarni> after that, they put it up to ensure catenary on the entire line from Malmö to Hamburg because EU demanded it and that's it
00:18:30  <Ailure> heh
00:18:35  <Ailure> catenary becuse of international reasons
00:18:37  <Bjarni> well, then there are the DC trains in Copenhagen, but that's a completely different system
00:18:59  <Ailure> I forgot the name
00:19:03  <Ailure> of thoose train engine
00:19:07  <Bjarni> and a really funny thing is that Sweden uses 15 kV, which is the same as Germany, but Denmark uses 25 kV
00:19:07  <Ailure> usually called "Öresundståg"
00:19:10  <Ailure> by Swedish
00:19:17  <Bjarni> same here
00:19:25  <Bjarni> except for different spelling
00:19:31  <Ailure> I travelled with them a few times
00:19:46  <Ailure> they look funny
00:19:48  <Ailure> kind of squarish
00:19:49  <Ailure> yet modern
00:20:21  <Bjarni> they are a bit heavy because Sweden demanded that they should be built of Swedish steel if they should put government money into the project
00:20:31  <Ailure> then there's the regional trains who have RC6 engines
00:20:51  <Ailure> which are purple for some reason
00:20:53  <Bjarni> RC really rocks
00:20:57  <Ailure> yeah
00:20:59  <Ailure> I see two variants
00:21:04  <Ailure> the RC2 one for cargo
00:21:11  <Bjarni> oh you mean the påga thing
00:21:20  <Ailure> yeah
00:21:26  <Ailure> well some of them were called that
00:21:39  <Bjarni> rumours tells me that they should be really nice, both for passengers and crew
00:21:39  <Ailure> they call them regional trains now on train stations
00:21:47  * Sacro hmmmmmmmmmms
00:21:48  <Ailure> http://www.jarnvag.net/lokguide/Rc6.asp
00:22:03  <Ailure> yeah
00:22:06  <Ailure> they look aged
00:22:09  <Ailure> but is really powerful apparently
00:22:43  <Bjarni> they look really old, but if they work and people like them...
00:22:57  <Bjarni> Dm is aged as well, yet they still pull ore trains
00:23:02  <Bjarni> and they do it well
00:23:19  <Bjarni> well, only the ones, that got the Dm3 upgrade
00:23:21  <Ailure> yeah
00:23:40  <Ailure> they look quite aged next to x2000 and Öresundstågen
00:23:50  <Ailure> but still manages to live up
00:24:21  <Ailure> shame that the trainset which includes them
00:24:23  <Ailure> is far from complete :p
00:24:51  <Bjarni> we use DMUs from 1965 and they actually got a decent reliability
00:25:19  <Bjarni> not all of them are that old, but the first shipment is still in use
00:25:36  <Ailure> heh
00:25:39  <Ailure> I think I read somewhere
00:25:43  <Ailure> about trains used in New york
00:25:47  <Ailure> that was used for over 70 years or so
00:26:07  <Ailure> and was only replaced becuse the adminstration wanted a more modern look or something
00:26:14  <Bjarni> heh
00:26:33  <Bjarni> http://home.arcor.de/horst.ebert/dk_priv/047533_hhgb.html <-- those. The oldest are from the 60s and the newest from 1989
00:26:41  <Bjarni> and like everything in between
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00:27:00  <Ailure> hmm
00:27:08  <Ailure> I probably seen them before
00:27:24  <Ailure> ah yeah
00:27:26  <Ailure> I have
00:27:29  <Ailure> no questions
00:27:35  <Ailure> that's Helsingör
00:27:42  <Ailure> I live close to Helsingborg
00:27:46  <Ailure> or at least, my family does
00:27:51  <Ailure> so I been rather often in Helsingör
00:28:00  <Ailure> forgot the name of that castle
00:28:02  <Ailure> in the backround
00:28:07  <Bjarni> Helsingborg is more lucky that Helsingør
00:28:12  <Bjarni> ... they got a better view
00:28:22  <Ailure> Helsingborg
00:28:25  <glx> Ailure: please use utf8 :)
00:28:27  <Ailure> is one of the biggest cities in Sweden
00:28:40  <Bjarni> Kronborg
00:29:04  <Bjarni> built on top of Krogen, which were built in 12xx
00:29:05  <Ailure> Helsingör and Helsingborg have quite similar names
00:29:08  <Ailure> i wonder why though
00:29:16  * Bjarni sighs
00:29:19  <Ailure> I know that Helsingborg was orgianlly founded danish
00:29:34  <Ailure> but I have no idea about the history of thoose cities
00:29:39  <Bjarni> maybe because they have always been connected
00:29:44  <Ailure> probably
00:30:00  <Ailure> brother cities you might call it
00:30:00  <glx> hmm -borg is like -town, right?
00:30:01  <Ailure> hehe
00:30:09  <Ailure> I think the English equilant of borg
00:30:11  <Ailure> would be burg
00:30:18  <Ailure> when it comes to town names
00:30:24  <Bjarni> glx: no, it's more like a castle
00:30:28  <Ailure> fort
00:30:29  <Ailure> it means fort
00:30:34  <Ailure> oh wait
00:30:36  <Ailure> it makes sense
00:30:39  <Ailure> helsingborg had a big fort
00:30:41  <Ailure> orginally
00:30:57  <Ailure> but only a tower and some foundation is left
00:31:16  <Brianetta> Enough playing with the trains.
00:31:17  <Ailure> this fort was built by danish I belive
00:31:25  <Bjarni> but Kronborg survived, so now we can shoot at you while you can't shoot back :P
00:31:59  <Ailure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helsingborg
00:32:05  <Ailure> wierd
00:32:11  <Ailure> Helsingborg is just Helsingborg
00:32:17  <Ailure> but wikipedia calls Helsingör for elsingborg
00:32:43  <Bjarni> I read that the Danish king decided to build fortifications on both sides because the cannons of that time had a range that was half the distance of the water, so if he placed cannons on both sides, he could completely control all passing ship traffic
00:33:09  <Bjarni> hmm
00:33:45  <Ailure> heh
00:33:49  <Bjarni> it was written something like that centuries ago. The H was added later
00:33:51  <Ailure> And there were bloody battles in that area
00:34:09  <Ailure> up to 1700 something
00:34:42  <Bjarni> Storebælt was pirate waters, so ships paid to pass though the protected waters
00:34:48  <Bjarni> and the king made a fortune
00:35:04  <Ailure> heh
00:35:04  <Bjarni> kind of like Suez. It's expensive, but more expensive not to do so
00:35:17  <Ailure> Danish kings have always been portrayed as tyrans in Swedish history lessons
00:35:18  <Ailure> D:
00:35:22  <Ailure> it's kind of funny
00:35:26  <Ailure> such as about Gustav vasa
00:35:51  <Bjarni> Swedish kings were tyrans... at least according to history books here
00:35:56  <Ailure> lol
00:35:57  <Bjarni> and their acts in Skåne
00:36:03  <Ailure> see
00:36:07  <Ailure> Nationalism does that
00:36:08  <Ailure> with history
00:36:10  <Ailure> it's kind of sad
00:36:44  <Eddi|zuHause> "Burg" is german for "castle" (from latin "castellum" i believe)
00:37:12  <Bjarni> actually I say screw the school history books and look for what they actually did. The Swedish kings were brutal to the population in Skåne after they stole the land from Denmark
00:37:20  <Naksu> from?
00:37:23  <Eddi|zuHause> the slavic name is "hrad" or "grad", depending on how far east you get
00:37:27  <Ailure> Eddi:Makes sense why there's alot of burg towns in USA then
00:37:30  <Naksu> how does castellum become burg?
00:37:35  <Ailure> might been named by german immigrants
00:37:49  <Ailure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_II_of_Denmark
00:37:57  <Ailure> Christian the tyrant
00:37:58  <Ailure> heh
00:37:59  <Eddi|zuHause> Naksu: it does not "become"... it has different roots
00:38:20  <Ailure> probably becuse of the stockholm bloodbath
00:38:38  <Bjarni> burger is actually named after Hamburg and originally meant "meat from Hamburg", which were a really good thing. Later it degraded somewhat
00:38:42  <Eddi|zuHause> english is much more influenced from latin
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00:39:14  <jotham_> yeah burg is more like a synonym of castle
00:39:19  <Eddi|zuHause> since the romans occupied britain for several centuries
00:39:47  <Ailure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_Bloodbath
00:39:48  <jotham_> english is the bastard mutt of the language world
00:40:21  <Ailure> thankfully the two nations became peaceful against each other when they turned democratic
00:40:28  *** jotham_ is now known as _jotham
00:40:33  <Ailure> and now Sweden is one of the most pacifistik countries in the world. :P
00:40:35  <Eddi|zuHause> well, if you have an island that lets itself being conquered every other century, that's no wonder the languages mix :p
00:41:03  <Bjarni> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_IV_of_Denmark <-- this guy really built a lot of the landmarks in Denmark
00:41:08  <_jotham> are you suggesting the british isles are of easy virtue?
00:41:12  * _jotham gasps
00:41:14  <Sacro> the girls are
00:41:24  <_jotham> same here in kiwistan
00:41:30  <Eddi|zuHause> well, history does not lie :p
00:42:01  * Bjarni logs that quote from Eddi|zuHause
00:42:15  *** Progman [~progman@p57A1CA9B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:42:51  * Bjarni writes a history book where he tells that Eddi|zuHause's family is full of cannibals
00:43:17  <Eddi|zuHause> how do you get the idea that were not true? :p
00:43:33  <Bjarni> it's true because history does not lie
00:43:40  <Bjarni> I was just told that
00:43:49  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i said that.
00:44:32  <_jotham> Eddi|zuHause comes from a venerable PNG family
00:44:44  <_jotham> i wonder what the domestic name of PNG is
00:44:55  <Eddi|zuHause> what is PNG?
00:45:03  <Bjarni> My sister read in a history book that if children didn't behave themselves, they were thrown into the wells (forgot the year).... why would anybody not only kill their own children over a single incident, but also poison the village water supply?
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00:45:05  <_jotham> Papua New Guinea
00:45:07  <Bjarni> I simply do not believe that
00:45:16  <_jotham> where the last regular canabalistic customs were practiced
00:45:23  <Bjarni> clean water was hard to get, so you would not poison your own supply
00:46:01  <Bjarni> actually I read about recent cannibalism in Germany, and Eddi|zuHause got a .de domain
00:46:08  <_jotham> haha, true
00:46:12  <_jotham> but not by a whole community
00:46:15  <_jotham> just buy a crazy guy
00:46:46  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause is just one guy
00:47:02  <Bjarni> hmm
00:47:06  <_jotham> yeah i was just explaining why i brought up PNG, in defense of his position
00:47:12  <Bjarni> Hitler were also just one guy
00:47:20  <Bjarni> and he also were present in Germany
00:47:26  <_jotham> uh oh
00:47:36  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: you got so many similarities with a lot of villains
00:47:40  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, there was something about "the cannibal of Rothenburg" iirc
00:47:41  <Bjarni> do you speak German as well?
00:47:42  <_jotham> all singular units of male human found in germany must be placed under observation
00:48:10  <Eddi|zuHause> it was a few years ago, it was said he made contact with his victims over an online chat
00:48:18  <Bjarni> what if the next Hitler is a Ms. Hitler?
00:48:19  <Eddi|zuHause> and they agreed to let him kill them
00:48:29  <_jotham> .,/msg -eu piv-2 uhm - TV On the Radio - Desperate Youth, Blood Thirsty Babe
00:48:39  <_jotham> double-ewe-tee-eff mate
00:49:13  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: I read that and even that one of them should share the meal at first o_O
00:49:43  <_jotham> so i'm trying to convince my bosses to buy some wii remotes, i think they would make for great interactivity tools in educational displays at museums
00:50:11  <_jotham> if you put them on a rope to the floor and ceiling no one would be able to steal or break them too
00:50:25  <Bjarni> dream on
00:51:03  <_jotham> the museums already throw hundreds of k at projectors and touch screens
00:51:17  <_jotham> of which i've built a number of interactives with
00:51:19  <Bjarni> a few years ago, my school decided to screw all the computers to the tables, then they screwed all the cables to the computers and they thought they were safe, but....
00:51:30  <_jotham> i think it's pretty realistic to approach them about using wii remotes
00:51:43  <glx> many TV has been destroy since wii is available here :)
00:51:54  <Bjarni> somebody walked in, placed himself in front of the security camera and tore off the front of a computer (how did he even manage to do that?) and stole the HD
00:52:28  <Bjarni> without turning the computer off first
00:52:32  <_jotham> well, we already have a number of fragile interactive items
00:52:43  <_jotham> joy sticks, touch screens, movable levers etc
00:52:54  <_jotham> the public doesn't seem to damage them too badly - but they tend to die from over use
00:53:41  <_jotham> museums are good because the lout-per-person count is low
00:53:57  <Bjarni> that's amazing. In the Amiga 500 days I had a friend, who appeared to be trying to break my joysticks :(
00:54:09  <_jotham> yeah we go through joysticks fast
00:54:16  <Bjarni> lout-per-person?
00:54:18  <Sacro> yay amiga 500
00:54:31  <_jotham> but it's for a crane simulation, so you need to use joysticks
00:54:38  <_jotham> we need to look at building our own ones
00:54:52  <Bjarni> what kind of museum is that?
00:54:57  <Bjarni> sounds interesting :)
00:55:49  <_jotham> that's for the pukeariki museum in taranaki - just a regional museum here in nz
00:56:04  <_jotham> they went in joint funding with the library so they have a huge focus on interactive learning
00:56:12  <glx> http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2170949/microsoft-posts-pulls <-- MS is still funny :)
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00:56:49  <_jotham> as a programmer doing museum work is pretty sweet, lots of CG related stuff
00:56:54  <_jotham> poor mans game industry i guess :)
00:57:11  <Bjarni> fuck, .nz
00:57:14  <Bjarni> far far away
00:57:23  <_jotham> kiwistan, the long lost farawaystan
00:57:28  <Bjarni> and when they are awake, I should be asleep
00:57:38  <_jotham> yeah it's 2pm saturday here
00:57:39  <_jotham> and i'm at work
00:58:18  <glx> 12 hours offset (easy to remember)
00:59:09  <Bjarni> http://home.arcor.de/horst.ebert/dk_priv/049934_hfhj_m8_hi.html <-- this is a rather interesting picture. You see, the train belongs to the line entering in the other end of the station and one would assume that the railroad would use their own locomotive, but it's likely idle in the roundhouse to the right
00:59:19  <Bjarni> yeah 12 hours
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01:00:06  <_jotham> in summer we are GMT + 13
01:00:08  <_jotham> it's nuts
01:00:20  <Sacro> +13? hmm
01:00:29  <Bjarni> it's also interesting because... they rebuilt the whole place. They moved tracks, replaced the roundhouse (twice?), but it's still the same trains
01:00:36  <Bjarni> well, the DMU ones
01:02:34  <Bjarni> daylight saving hour is crap
01:03:13  <Bjarni> when you have to get up at say 6.30 and it changes so you feel like getting up at 5.30.... it's not healthy
01:03:32  <Sacro> [00:58] <<_jotham>> yeah it's 2pm saturday here <- that makes you GMT+11
01:03:47  <_jotham> yeah it's not always gmt+13
01:03:52  <Sacro> err... +13 even
01:03:56  * Sacro is confused
01:04:07  <_jotham> it's summer here
01:04:11  <_jotham> NZDST
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01:04:19  <_jotham> Sat Dec 16 14:00:48 NZDT 2006
01:05:48  <Bjarni> Sacro: like Australia, New Zeeland can't tell the difference between night/day or summer/winter
01:06:00  <Sacro> Bjarni: how strange
01:06:04  <Sacro> well its night and winter now
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01:06:13  <Bjarni> yeah
01:06:21  <Bjarni> and he thinks it's daytime and summer
01:06:42  <Sacro> how silly
01:09:45  <Bjarni> actually he thinks it's tomorrow
01:09:55  <Bjarni> _jotham: what are the winning lotto numbers? :D
01:11:21  <Bjarni> Since the Wrong Main Entry Signal was declared obsolete, ordinary Entry Signals have been used instead. Many (particularly older) station interlocking systems, however, do not feature wrong main entry routes. The resulting Entry Signal is therefore a "blind" signal, only marking the station limit by displaying the "Stop" aspect. The signal may only be passed by verbal permission. <-- I like this signal
01:11:27  <Bjarni> "this signal will never turn green"
01:11:30  <Bjarni> :D
01:12:29  <_jotham> 42
01:13:02  <Bjarni> all of them
01:13:42  <Bjarni> If I had a timemachine, lotto would make me rich
01:14:13  <Bjarni> hmm
01:14:32  <Bjarni> what would happen if I went back in time and killed Hitler as a child?
01:14:51  <Bjarni> would the nazi party still come to power, but with a different man in charge?
01:15:04  <Bjarni> maybe they would win the war if that happened
01:16:59  <_jotham> israel would never have formed
01:17:21  <Bjarni> that's likely
01:17:24  <_jotham> and the cold war may have been entirely different
01:17:28  <Bjarni> and then what?
01:17:34  <_jotham> fuck that, leave things the way they are - better the devil we know :)
01:17:49  <Bjarni> would the middle east still be upset at the western countries?
01:18:09  <Ailure> there would be a big war between russia and the allied
01:18:29  <Ailure> and now the planet is infested by tiberium and we have GDI vs Nod
01:18:33  <Ailure> ;P
01:18:40  * Bjarni slaps Ailure
01:18:44  <Bjarni> I'm serious
01:18:51  <Ailure> hehe
01:18:55  <Ailure> Red alert was fun though
01:19:00  <Bjarni> what would happen if Israel were never created?
01:19:11  <Ailure> what were there before?
01:19:24  <Bjarni> think
01:19:34  <_jotham> man, the subject of the western bulwark of israel and th emiddle east is a topic that creates so much eyre
01:19:44  <Bjarni> who is constantly fighting Israel, claiming that they stole their land? ;)
01:19:58  <Ailure> oh
01:20:07  <Ailure> Israel
01:20:19  <Ailure> jsut looked it up
01:20:20  <Ailure> heh
01:20:21  <_jotham> taht's the wrong word
01:20:25  <Ailure> I forgot about that country
01:21:31  <_jotham> ire
01:21:53  <_jotham> dyslexia sucks, i'd love to be able to spell half the words i know
01:21:53  <Bjarni> original C&C had a funny oops in the network code. Each computer controlled it's own player's units, so when a 200 MHz computer played with a 75 MHz computer, the 200 MHz one would have faster units. I even heard of a game where everybody used 50-75 MHz and one guy used 200 MHz and the last one got mammoth tanks that moved faster than light tanks
01:22:02  <Bjarni> havesters also moved that much faster
01:22:20  <_jotham> that's pretty silly
01:22:34  <_jotham> people who don't write time based code, rather than cpu load dependant code suck
01:22:38  <Bjarni> Star Wars Pod racers did the same
01:23:01  <_jotham> how hard is it to determin time slices
01:23:12  <Bjarni> I were once at max speed and was overtaken like I were at a standstill. Then we decided to only play in singleplayer
01:24:07  <Bjarni> I got Magic the Gathering to work on my modern computer, but it's way too fast... and it's a windows 95 game, not some old DOS thing o_O
01:24:26  <Bjarni> and the slowdown thing works like shit in VMware :(
01:24:54  <Ailure> actually
01:24:56  <Ailure> well
01:25:04  <Ailure> I don't recall CnC speeding up like crazy on modern computers
01:25:12  <Ailure> though I guess they were playing at a high speed
01:25:17  <Ailure> and the 50 mhz computers couldn't keep up
01:25:30  <Bjarni> that's likely
01:26:37  <Ailure> but well
01:26:44  <Ailure> cases where faster computers beats odler one
01:26:54  <Bjarni> reminds me of Warcraft II in MP on a 25 MHz 68k... it lacked so hard that my computer showed that a unit were killed and it lived on for like 10 sec on the slow one before it was killed, so clicks lacked 10 sec o_O
01:27:03  <Ailure> are partly becuse of cappy network protocooll
01:27:10  <Bjarni> ok, it was below minimum CPU power for that game, but still
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01:28:36  <Sacro> http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=212082&cid=17263660 roffl
01:28:39  <Bjarni> Marathon (mac only) made all computers do all calculations, but it had a tendency to go out of sync and it had no sync verification, so you noticed when the other players started to run into walls and other stupid actions
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01:31:54  <Bjarni> A French consumer group has filed 3 lawsuits against HP [CC], saying the company's practice of selling consumer PCs with Windows pre-installed violates a French law that 'prohibits linking the functionality of a product to another product' <-- my TV tuner app lacks the ability to burn DVDs, but it can forward them to such software (easiest with a certain one, but if you are bright, you can use more). Would that be illegal then?
01:32:40  <Bjarni> do they have to make a special French version that can't burn DVDs?
01:33:47  <Ailure> the law might actuially
01:33:51  <Ailure> be deeper than that
01:33:56  <Ailure> but only looks sily when simplified
01:35:33  <BFM> http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=666#comic
01:48:36  <glx> [02:32:00] <@Bjarni> A French consumer group has filed 3 lawsuits against HP [CC].... <-- the problem is mainly about the fact that you can refuse to use the software already installed in the PC but you still need to pay them
01:51:07  <_jotham> it's funny on amazon, when you look up a negative reviewers other reviews they are often negative too
01:51:10  <_jotham> it's like, reviews are either fanboyish, or some hater troll on a strut
01:52:38  <glx> [02:32:00] <@Bjarni> ... my TV tuner app lacks the ability to burn DVDs, but it can forward them to such software (easiest with a certain one, but if you are bright, you can use more). Would that be illegal then? <-- no if you are not forced to buy the burning software with the TV tuner app
01:53:59  <glx> indeed you must be able to choose what you want to buy
01:55:38  <Bjarni> ahh
01:55:41  <Bjarni> then it makes sense
01:58:07  <Bjarni> I was not forced to buy it, but it's highly recommended and when I bought the tuner, the salesperson started talking about the burner software (like informing that it's the easiest solution and that the driver/app is not able to burn on it's own.. ok to get that info, if I didn't already know it)
01:58:13  <Bjarni> goodnight
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05:19:43  <DaleStan> peter
05:20:19  <DaleStan> Hm... Helps to make sure the find dialog is open first.
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08:37:48  <io]nowhere> how do I fix it if the servers keeps stating 1 client in front of you while there are none?
08:51:55  <Rubidium> two things that might have happened:
08:52:13  <Rubidium> -you're running the non-dedicated version where the server is also a client
08:52:59  <Rubidium> -maybe there is one networkconnection that has not been closed correctly (very unlikely that this happens though)
08:53:42  <io]nowhere> i'm running the dedicated version
08:54:10  <Rubidium> and what servers are stating that there is one client?
08:54:31  <io]nowhere> well my own server it is
08:54:55  <io]nowhere> it works again now
08:55:09  <io]nowhere> after like 10-15 minutes showing 1 client in front of you
08:55:51  <Rubidium> do you mean your own 'dedicated' server or a website that shows statistics?
08:56:04  <io]nowhere> yes my own dedicated server
08:56:38  <Rubidium> hmm, that's very strange
08:56:47  <io]nowhere> it happened two times before
08:58:07  <io]nowhere> it's hard to find out what is going wrong, it seems to happen at 'random'
08:58:09  <Rubidium> I think it has to do with the fact that the network connection got interrupted and then you'll have to wait till TCP tells openttd that the network connection is dead
08:58:34  <io]nowhere> hmmm ok
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08:58:57  <io]nowhere> well the server has a cheap NIC, might that be related?
08:59:03  <Rubidium> basically TCP retries for some time by resending the packets that it did not get a reply for and that can take a while
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08:59:28  <io]nowhere> so it can happen after someone disconnets?
08:59:31  <Rubidium> unlikely
08:59:42  <io]nowhere> it has to do with the server or server connection?
09:00:03  <Rubidium> well, if he 'disconnects' normally it doesn't happen, but if the person loses his/her internet connection while playing it can
09:00:25  <io]nowhere> yeah that's what I ment with the disconnect
09:00:54  <io]nowhere> so it's nothing to worry about, just wait 10-15 minutes? Is it normal it takes 'that' long? Anything I can do to make it faster?
09:01:40  <Rubidium> your OS should have some settings somewhere to influence it, but I don't know where
09:02:18  <io]nowhere> it's ubuntu, i might be better of asking in #ubuntu or #debian then right
09:02:34  <Rubidium> setting it too low can have negative effects though; for example all network connections with lots of packetloss are more likely to be dropped too.
09:03:00  <io]nowhere> maybe I can do it some way it only influences openttd
09:03:43  <io]nowhere> thanks for your help, will let you know if I worked something out
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09:04:15  <Rubidium> that means rewriting parts of the network code and adding 'pings' to the network protocol to test for aliveness of the connection
09:04:24  <Wolf01> hello
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09:11:31  <io]nowhere> hi Wolf01
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10:31:22  <hylje> hm, how was screen scrolled up and down
10:41:51  <Ailure> I'm amused
10:42:10  <Ailure> http://board.acmlm.org/profile.php?id=4
10:42:13  <Ailure> on Acmlm board
10:42:15  <Ailure> names are color coded
10:42:20  <Ailure> depending on powerlevel and sex
10:42:32  <Ailure> someone just contacted me and thought I was inputting my real sex >>
10:42:46  <Ailure> but I found the male adminstrator colour ugly so...
10:46:44  <hylje> welcome to the internet
10:46:53  <hylje> and that site screams "furry"
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10:52:21  <Ailure> no that site isn't furry
10:52:22  <Ailure> I AM
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10:52:24  <Ailure> PHEAR
10:52:27  <Ailure> D:
10:52:32  <Ailure> lol
10:52:44  <Ailure> Seriously i'm like the only furry admin there
10:52:48  <Ailure> it's not infested by furries
10:52:57  <hylje> oh, in that case
10:53:05  <hylje> i dont have to kill it all with fire
10:53:18  <Ailure> I'm going to taint the trunk with furry code :)
10:53:29  <Ailure> man that does sound corny
10:54:46  <hylje> the one ring as boots? cool
10:55:33  <Ailure> infact I was hiding the fact that I was furry around the openTTD community :P
10:55:41  <Ailure> http://194.47.44.216/PRG99.asm
10:55:44  <Ailure> is something I just made
10:55:51  <Ailure> that community revolves rom hacking :)
10:56:01  <Ailure> so there's alot of reverse engineering
10:56:09  <Ailure> and openTTD is basically reverse engineerd heh
10:56:33  <Ailure> that program isn't reverse engineering, just some simple demo I put together hastily
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10:58:24  <Ailure> assembly is easy
11:01:24  <Ailure> although I really never touched assembly for X86...
11:04:45  <hylje> depends on the arch really
11:04:52  <hylje> some asm is easy as pie, see mips
11:05:25  <Ailure> 6502 is really basic
11:05:34  <Ailure> but on the other hand, I like it becuse of that
11:05:56  <Ailure> http://194.47.44.216/test.nes
11:06:02  <Ailure> the rom of it
11:06:07  <Ailure> perfectly legal, I made everything :)
11:06:13  <Ailure> including writing the header
11:06:18  <Ailure> so it runs in a NES emulator
11:06:27  <Ailure> but heh this is probably the most pointless NES application ever
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11:34:40  <_jotham> is unlink the same as rm?
11:34:41  <_jotham> on a file
11:36:22  <Tefad> i think so
11:36:48  <Tefad> but remember on *nix systems open files stay allocated until the last handle is gone, the space is deallocated (at least that's how i remember it)
11:37:14  <_jotham> cool
11:37:21  <_jotham> like reference counting GC works
11:37:41  <Triffid_Hunter> exactly
11:37:56  <Tefad> i think windows systems require all handles to be released before file is even unlinked
11:38:20  <Tefad> not sure how SFU handles it
11:38:39  <Tefad> i should try ottd under SFU some day
11:38:42  <Tefad> : D
11:39:22  <_jotham> Severely Fucked Up?
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11:58:26  <Tefad> hee, no.. services for unix (in windows)
11:58:36  <Tefad> aka Interix
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12:49:59  <Sacro> !stats
12:50:00  <_42_> Sacro: http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/stats/openttd.html
12:50:31  <_jotham> hah
12:50:36  <_jotham> so much for this being the most active time
12:52:02  <hylje> it lies
12:52:27  * _jotham causes a ruckus
12:54:51  <BFM> DURNK
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12:56:49  <Brianetta> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=530535#530535
12:58:16  <hylje> ha ha
12:59:19  <Brianetta> That 32 bit branch is coming on nicely (:
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13:07:04  <Rubidium> Brianetta: I'm missing the capacity for the engines; if the wagons have a capacity of 40, the engines should have something like 20 (looking at the windows in the train)
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13:07:43  <Brianetta> Rubidium: The windows inthe train?  That's just graphical.
13:07:59  <Brianetta> The actual capacities as used in the game are as seen.
13:08:14  <Rubidium> I mean the windows from the red door till the next/previous wagon
13:08:37  <Brianetta> yes
13:08:44  <Brianetta> purely graphical
13:09:01  <Brianetta> Blame the original stats
13:09:08  <Brianetta> It's not like I loaded a newgrf
13:10:00  <Rubidium> I just thought you had chosen this train because it also has 2 'engines' and 5 wagons
13:10:29  <Rubidium> nevertheless it looks very nice :)
13:10:44  <tokai> Bjarni is a very aggressive person. He/She attacked others 26 times. <- hehe :)
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13:11:36  <Sacro> quite a few of them where me
13:13:37  <tokai> hmm if i slap each one of you now. I could beat that record:)
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13:13:54  <Sacro> :o
13:14:09  * Sacro slaps tokai
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14:00:52  <Wolf01> /.check_server
14:00:57  <Wolf01> ...
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14:12:27  <Sacro> Wolf01 this is IRC
14:13:10  <Wolf01> yes, i held ctrl when pressing enter
14:13:18  <Wolf01> *pressed
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18:29:03  <Digitalfox> Hi everybody.. :) Could someone in a private msg tell what's the email of michael blunck?? I'm having a hard time to figure out his email.. I've tried somes, but they all give me error of not existing.. :|
18:30:07  <Digitalfox> And i wanted to send him a email..
18:30:14  <Sacro> check his tt-forums profile
18:30:21  <Digitalfox> it's not there
18:30:51  <Digitalfox> he doesn't want spam and i undersand, but the tips he gave i can't figure it out
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18:31:18  <Digitalfox> he gave some tips in a topic about his email, but i don't get it
18:31:30  <Sacro> hmm
18:31:55  <Digitalfox> he asks in his profile for not sending pm , only email
18:34:03  <Digitalfox> No one knows?? :|
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18:48:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> there appears to exist a "michael.blunck@ewetel.net"... looks like a pretty safe bet to me :p
18:49:01  <pso`GiAN> hi
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18:52:31  <MeusH> hello
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19:00:13  <Digitalfox> Thanks Eddi|zuHause2, i think you are right.. email sent to that adress :)
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19:06:21  <MeusH> Sacro!
19:06:23  *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-83-100-150-129.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:06:35  <MeusH> Sacro_!
19:08:49  <Sacro_> MeusH!
19:09:12  <MeusH> go to #tycoon
19:09:18  <MeusH> we'll talk polish :P
19:09:26  <Sacro_> :o
19:09:30  <Sacro_> but i cant speak polish
19:09:43  <MeusH> you do
19:09:46  <MeusH> but you can't :p
19:09:48  <ln-> i can
19:09:52  <ln-> butelka bezzwrotna
19:09:58  <MeusH> haha
19:10:16  <Sacro_> who said i spoke polish?
19:10:26  <MeusH> Sacro> Yac Sie Mascz?
19:10:43  <Sacro_> its the only thing i know
19:10:46  <MeusH> Should be Jak sie masz, but you were pretty close :)
19:11:07  <Sacro_> see!
19:11:16  <MeusH> I asked you "Jak tam polski... a raczej jak tam Polki?" :D
19:11:27  <ln-> Sacro_: it's easy. just repeat afrer me: wyprodukowano z soku zageszczonego. najlepiej spozyc przed: data na butelce.
19:11:43  <MeusH> lol ln-
19:11:45  <Sacro_> :o
19:11:52  <MeusH> you cause me to rotfl
19:12:26  <MeusH> Tym razem nasz program przechowuje referencje wszystkich przycisków w odpowiedniej tablicy
19:12:54  <MeusH> so, Sacro_, how about Polish girls?
19:15:34  <Sacro_> MeusH: i have a polish neighbour, phwoar
19:16:17  <MeusH> :o
19:16:42  <ln-> what does bezzwrotna mean anyway? could it be 'recycleable'?
19:16:57  <MeusH> ln-: how come you are in posession of so many polish... drink packages?
19:17:06  <ln-> actually only one. :)
19:17:27  <MeusH> bezzwrotna means that you can't give it back to the shop. It is without "caution"
19:17:40  <ln-> which i bought in Lowicz in May 2004.
19:18:04  <MeusH> "zwrotna" bottle means you give it back to the shop and get, say, 30 groszys, which would be less than 10 cents
19:19:21  <ln-> ok
19:19:32  <MeusH> do you have something like that in Finland?
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19:21:21  <ln-> over here most bottles and cans can be returned to the shop (actually, any shop), and you'll get 10 to 40 cents back.  the ones that can't be returned (or for which you don't get the money anyway) are not marked explicitly, while the ones you can, are marked.
19:22:28  <MeusH> Recently I saw a TV programme about Finnish-Russian war
19:22:30  <MeusH> I was amazed
19:22:58  <MeusH> Such a little of Fins killed millions of Ruskies
19:23:22  <ln-> millions? ... i don't know the numbers but millions sounds exaggerating.
19:23:45  <ln-> but certainly a lot more ruskies were killed than finns.
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19:25:43  <MeusH> well, one million
19:26:31  <MeusH> I heard there were as many people livining in Finland as in just single St Petersburg
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19:31:03  <Noldo> MeusH: soviet union lost something like 13 millon soldiers in world war II, but I don't know how many of them were killed in the wars with Finland
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19:32:08  <MeusH> over one million in the Winter War
19:32:17  <MeusH> and 200 000 in Continuation War
19:32:38  <Noldo> maybe the other way around
19:37:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> if the russians have anything, it is an awful lot of soldiers
19:37:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> they don't care if millions die
19:37:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> there are more where they came from
19:38:38  <Noldo> not sure how it is now, but I'm not that intrested in finding out either
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20:21:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> who wrote the transparent catenary patch?
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20:26:04  <io]nowhere> not me
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20:30:45  <io]nowhere> eeeek ghosts!!!!!!!!111111111
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21:17:51  <MeusH> Eddi|zuHause2, maybye Wolf01?
21:18:21  <Wolf01> eh?
21:18:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> anyway, that forgot catenary on bridges
21:19:20  <Rubidium> why would one write a transparent caternary patch?
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21:19:50  <Wolf01> because i can't see clearly junctions with the dutch catenary grf
21:19:55  <Rubidium> isn't it easier to make a grf with empty sprites and replace the sprites of the catenary and support systems for the catenary?
21:20:10  <hylje> maybe do something evil
21:20:33  <hylje> like change the alpha value of the catenaries depending on how far it is from the "selected" tile
21:22:14  <Rubidium> as if there is a real notion of alpha value in the current OTTD :)
21:22:32  <hylje> 32bpp
21:22:55  <Rubidium> there you might be able to implement it
21:23:05  <hylje> possible
21:23:18  <hylje> would be a major usability thing
21:23:39  <hylje> to increase transparency of stuff depending on how close it is to the cursor
21:23:46  <hylje> because you always want to see what is under your cursor
21:24:46  <Darkvater> allo :)
21:25:01  <Rubidium> 'allo 'allo :)
21:26:15  <MeusH> hey DV
21:26:19  <MeusH> great idea hylje
21:26:40  <hylje> the current transparency toggle is a hack :)
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21:27:16  <DarkSSH> jaskdlfj
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21:28:20  <DarkSSH> hehe nice Dawn on fthe Dead on tv
21:28:31  <hylje> a spider ran over your keyboard?
21:29:36  <Bjarni> more likely a rat
21:29:48  <MeusH> hello Bjarni
21:30:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> Rubidium: the point is to only make the catenary transparent when transparent buildings are selected, not always...
21:30:31  <Bjarni> hi Polish guy
21:32:48  <Darkvater> hi Dan-ny
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21:42:00  <Wolf01> so what is the point that you don't like? i made the catenary transparent when player's buildings (stations, bridge and depots) are transparent, and i split some things to be able to see what i want
21:42:34  <MeusH> I don't know what they don't like, but I like it
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21:51:55  <MeusH> goodnight
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22:07:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> Wolf01: you only made catenary on normal rail tiles transparent, not the catenary on bridge middle tiles
22:07:24  <Wolf01> yes i made it also on bridges
22:07:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> not in miniin
22:07:52  <Wolf01> in the miniIN is changed something
22:08:04  <Wolf01> check in bugs.openttd.org
22:08:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> you speak in mysteries
22:09:17  <Wolf01> some days ago i wanted to sync that patch with trunk
22:09:52  <Wolf01> i had to rewrite some things, one of them is the catenary on bridge
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22:31:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> so, if you have rewritten it, why is the fix not in miniin yet?
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22:34:56  <Wolf01> because i'm a little outdated, i've to understand what is changed and then make the correct updates
22:52:13  <DarkSSH> !seen peter1138
22:52:14  <_42_> DarkSSH, please look a bit closer at the memberlist of this channel.
22:52:21  <DarkSSH> I'm not blind you fucking idiot
22:52:46  <Nigel_> DarkSSH, try /whois
22:53:07  <Nigel_> * [peter1138] idle 34:53:35, signon: Thu Dec 14 21:43:26
22:53:12  <DarkSSH> and that helps me because?
22:53:24  <DarkSSH> that's not what my /whois says :(
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22:57:19  <Nigel_> DarkSSH, if you want the idle times, /whois nick nick
22:57:28  <DarkSSH> twice?
22:57:42  <DarkSSH> ah that's better Nigel_ :)
22:57:51  <DarkSSH> 23:54 -!-  idle     : 1 days 10 hours 58 mins 10 secs [signon: Thu Dec 14 09:43:26 2006]
23:03:09  <Nigel_> /wii also works
23:03:21  <Nigel_> (it's an alias)
23:04:00  <DarkSSH> nightie-time
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23:06:24  <Wolf01> 'night all
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23:09:36  <HMage> if you want technical explanation, the double whois asks the server to reply that the user is connected to, not the server you are connected to.
23:10:09  <HMage> if you want technical explanation, the double whois asks the server that the user is connected to to reply, not the server you are connected to.*
23:10:16  <HMage> I hate my english skills.
23:10:27  <jotham> me too
23:10:30  <jotham> :D
23:10:56  <jotham> if it's any concilation, i love english and words but i cannot spell very well because of dyslexia - it's a painful situation
23:11:56  <HMage> I see.
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23:26:44  <Satatik> hello
23:26:56  <Satatik> anyone here i can ask a question to?
23:27:09  <Nigel_> its best to just ask
23:27:18  <Satatik> how do i use presignals?
23:27:27  <Satatik> also pbs
23:27:57  <Satatik> come to think of it, whats the deal with pbs?
23:28:23  <Sacro__> ctrl+click on a signal
23:28:33  <Sacro__> pbs is great fun
23:28:42  <Rubidium> sporadic crashes of trains
23:28:43  <Satatik> i found nothing in the changelog, or any documentation on how to use pbs. But ive seen screenshots of people making junctions with them
23:29:14  <Satatik> was it removed?
23:29:34  <Rubidium> yes, though MiniIN still has it
23:30:35  <Satatik> thats too bad. PBS looks realy amazing
23:30:57  <Nigel_> Rubidium, i've never had a PBS crash
23:31:02  <Rubidium> it does, but with sporadic crashes of trains it ain't funny
23:31:11  <Rubidium> I had...
23:31:20  <Nigel_> actually i lie
23:31:28  <Nigel_> i've had crashes when placing PBS sections
23:31:28  <Satatik> ?
23:31:34  <Satatik> ah
23:31:54  <Satatik> well i hope they fix it and release it in the next version so i can use it lol
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23:32:41  <Rubidium> it won't be fixed; there is a plan for rewrite, but the persons who was planning it has not done anything with it yet
23:33:59  <Bjarni> we need to be able to pay coders if we should give a good estimate on ETA on features
23:34:07  <Bjarni> we just got too much else to do :s
23:34:38  <Rubidium> unless you like the "it is done when it is done"-style ETA :)
23:35:34  <Nigel_> hmmm, i'd help out, but my l33t C skills aren't what they should be
23:41:59  <jotham> printf("fuckyeah!\n");
23:42:08  <jotham> now you aer a master
23:49:27  <Nigel_> haha
23:49:39  <Nigel_> i need some nice C stuff where i study, but yeah
23:49:45  <Bjarni> that depends
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23:50:03  <Bjarni> if the task is to verify that the terminal output is working correctly, then yes
23:53:17  <Bjarni> if the task is to implement PBS, then I would need to see more code
23:53:28  <Bjarni> it could be one line of a diff with brilliant code
23:53:59  <Bjarni> say it's written each time a train enters a signal block where another train is already present and it's a sign that the code is working
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