Log for #openttd on 28th December 2006:
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00:00:39  <KUDr> they would like to fix it so first they should give us savegame
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00:01:04  <Athorium>  MiHaMiX
00:01:15  <Darkvater> yeah
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00:11:39  <Bjarni> Athorium: I think MiHaMiX went to bed long ago
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00:31:47  <BFM> Hahaha, just read this;
00:31:49  <BFM> He didn't say "literacy". He said "computer literacy". Here are all the things they can learn from it (often in this order):
00:31:51  <BFM> 1) How to use a mouse.
00:31:53  <BFM> 2) How to launch and use a web browser.
00:31:55  <BFM> 3) What local files and folders are, and why it's a good idea to save your favorite videos locally in your own folder.
00:31:56  <BFM> 4) How to hide things stored locally so your parent, boss, girlfriend, etc. can't find it.
00:31:58  <BFM> 5) How to install and use P2P software (often followed by how to install anti-malware software).
00:31:59  <BFM> 6) How to locate and install video and audio codecs.
00:32:01  <BFM> 7) How to find and use anonymous proxies to circumvent those pesky web filtering devices.
00:32:02  <BFM> 8 ) How to set up their own proxies, write scripts or programs, and/or hack the filtering device to circumvent it.
00:32:04  <BFM> Some kids end up becoming programmers, IT specialists, or even hackers just to be able to see a boob. ;-)
00:32:58  <Rubidium> what do we think of ? Should we remove the landscaping button, or should we make it possible to have the two landscaping GUIs open at the same time in the scenario editor?
00:33:14  <Sacro> mmmmmm, it still skiips when you want to select Position of main toolbar
00:33:18  <Sacro> its hard to select centre
00:34:52  <Bjarni> BFM: good one
00:34:58  <Darkvater> finally
00:35:07  <Darkvater> stupid connection acting up all the time :(
00:35:16  <Bjarni> I could write apps before even knowing what P2P is.... you see it had to be invented first :P
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00:35:29  <Darkvater> Rubidium: easiest is to make it open the normal scenario-landscaping
00:36:02  <Rubidium> that would be something like:
00:36:32  <Darkvater> what's the 1 for?
00:37:13  <Rubidium> otherwise you cannot have both landscaping GUIs open at the same time
00:37:16  <Darkvater> Rubidium: I think your diff doesn't open the _scen_edit_land_gen_desc
00:37:31  <Darkvater> hmm but wait
00:38:15  <Bjarni> <BFM>	He didn't say "literacy". He said "computer literacy" <-- who is he?
00:38:32  <Bjarni> just some random guy?
00:38:42  <Rubidium> hmm, oh, you meant something different :)
00:38:49  <Darkvater> Rubidium: either open the 'land generation' window, or remove the widget
00:38:59  <Darkvater> don't open 2 kinds of terraforming tools
00:39:00  <ln-> could it be the mysterious "man" who does a lot of things in swedish, german and probably danish?
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00:40:11  <Bjarni> you mean that Japanese guy?
00:40:26  <BFM> Heya Bjarni, I read it on Slashdot ^_^
00:40:36  <Bjarni> using foreign languages to cover his trail
00:41:22  <ln-> no, the "man" as in "man brukar äta varje dag" :)
00:41:43  <ln-> a busy man
00:42:34  <Rubidium> Darkvater: thus as in the updated diff?
00:43:43  <Darkvater> you chose opening terraform gui?
00:43:51  <Darkvater> removing button is less code ;p
00:44:29  <Rubidium> hmm, can do that too, but then I need to do some basic maths :)
00:44:48  <SGulsetg> How to load a heightmap from console?
00:45:01  <Darkvater> I think that might be better though. Only one place for the terraforming in the scenario editor
00:46:15  <Rubidium> ./openttd -g <filename of heightmap> ?
00:46:36  <SGulsetg> windows
00:46:42  <SGulsetg> in the command promp
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00:53:54  <Rubidium> SGulsetg: as I said, but without the ./
00:54:13  <Rubidium> though I'm not sure it will work
00:55:34  <Wolf01> 'night all
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00:56:10  <Tuzlo> I followed the wiki when making shared orders, but I dont get "End of Shared Orders" in the Orders window, any reason why?
00:58:04  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7586 /trunk/road_gui.c: -Fix (FS#473): remove the Landscaping toolbar option from the Road Construction toolbar in the scenario editor, as there is another Lanscaping GUI in the scenario editor and launching that one could confuse users.
00:59:16  <Athorium> wtf
00:59:20  <Athorium> what are those signals???
00:59:33  <Tuzlo> semiphore
00:59:36  <Rubidium> PBS signals
00:59:38  <Tuzlo> arent they?
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00:59:47  <Athorium> from where?
00:59:56  <Athorium> I don't know about this special PBS
01:00:22  <Rubidium> only thing you need to know is that the implementation is and was too buggy
01:00:32  <Athorium> hmmm
01:00:35  <Sacro> if the game detects multiple incoming clients, please can it pause the game till everyone is in]#
01:00:41  <Athorium> but is implemented for OpenTTD?
01:00:43  <glx> those signals are not PBS
01:01:18  <glx> they are yellow signals but not implemented
01:01:23  <Athorium> I readed something about a signals with multiple status, that can make the train to slow down their velocity
01:01:34  <Athorium> is this?
01:01:59  <Rubidium> hmm, then they look too much like PBS signals :)
01:02:09  <glx> yes that's the use of yellow signals
01:02:12  <Athorium> uhmmm, PBS are more "poor" than this
01:02:21  <Athorium>  glx and runs "ok"?
01:02:29  <glx> but, as said, not implemented
01:02:44  <Athorium> can be implemented in a near future?
01:03:31  <glx> in future maybe, in near future I don't think
01:03:44  <Bjarni> I would not hold your breath if I were you
01:04:02  <Athorium> oh.. :( why good things not be implemented... :(
01:04:02  <Bjarni> it's not the next feature to be added
01:04:27  <Athorium> :(
01:04:52  <Rubidium> Athorium: time & impact of changes
01:05:09  <Athorium> u mean, a lot of changes in OpenTTD?
01:05:41  <glx> this feature will need a full rewrite of signal code
01:06:00  <Bjarni> Athorium: look at the changelog for 0.5.0 RC1. It's not like we aren't doing anything
01:06:03  <Rubidium> not to forget the train controllers
01:06:18  <Athorium>  Bjarni I follow changelog every day :P
01:06:28  <Bjarni> even better
01:07:25  <Athorium> I waiting a response for  MiHaMiX to be a part of translate on webtranslator
01:07:31  <Athorium> * translate team
01:08:34  <Athorium> but MiHaMiX no respond me :(
01:09:58  <Rubidium> Athorium: MiHaMiX has been on away (for work and vacation), has a backlog and currently has a bad internet connection
01:10:36  <izhirahider> and since there are 3 translators for your language he might probably have to boot someone off before :P
01:10:44  <Athorium> oh..and no ones can add me to spanish translate team?
01:11:03  <Athorium> but the language not translated... 3 translators and no 100% completed... -_-
01:11:35  <Rubidium> there are 41 bad strings and 41 pending strings, so I suppose they've translated the last few strings
01:12:45  <Athorium> i'm not sure...
01:12:54  <Athorium> this strings have a lot of time without translate... :S
01:13:02  <Sacro> Can someone grab 0.5.0RC1, Join Kirk's Server, (pass 12345) and tell me why the trains are renamed?
01:13:05  <Athorium> and my game continue with those strings in english :P
01:13:59  <CIA-1> bjarni * r7587 /trunk/readme.txt: -Change: [OSX] updated readme about compiling a universal binary as the flag name changed, but didn't change in the readme
01:14:25  <Bjarni> maybe it's more like a documentation change/fix
01:14:31  <Rubidium> Athorium: the translation happened since the last webtranslator commit
01:15:53  <Athorium> uhmmm u mean that spanish translation are translated 100%?
01:16:41  <glx> Spanish 41 bad strings, 41 strings pending, 3 translators assigned
01:16:44  <izhirahider> Athorium,
01:17:06  <glx> so it looks like all is translated and waiting for commit
01:17:07  <Athorium> exact, 41 strings pending...
01:17:09  <Rubidium> I mean it is very likely they are translated, but I've got no certainty
01:17:54  <Athorium> a lot of time passed and any new string actualized...
01:18:38  <Rubidium> well, committing to trunk for _every_ changed string is not good either, so it usually is one commit a day
01:19:13  <Athorium> I can translate it in a one day
01:19:46  <Athorium> well, I think that I need to wait  MiHaMiX response
01:21:06  <Athorium> uhmmm
01:21:25  <Athorium> someone know the dimensions of roads?
01:21:30  <Athorium> to draw
01:23:34  <Rubidium> you can find it out yourself with grfcodec
01:24:06  <CIA-1> bjarni * r7588 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs):
01:24:06  <CIA-1> -Change: [OSX] removed the flag JAGUAR since it didn't work anyway
01:24:06  <CIA-1>  Also removed all the Makefile code regarding this flag since it's no longer needed
01:24:06  <CIA-1>  Removed documentation about special limitations regarding running the game on OSX 10.2
01:24:06  <CIA-1>  OpenTTD now officially needs OSX 10.3.9 to work correctly (the trunk needed that for months)
01:24:15  <Athorium> grfcodec?
01:24:15  <BFM> FEEL MY WRATH
01:24:17  <BFM> I hate being bored :(
01:24:19  <Athorium> i no have this application
01:24:38  <Bjarni> BFM: then start coding
01:24:55  <Bjarni> Athorium already requested a complete rewrite of the signal system
01:24:59  <BFM> Bjarni, full of ideas, but wouldn't know where to start champ :(
01:25:16  <Bjarni> then start to learn ;)
01:25:18  <Rubidium> Athorium:
01:25:31  <Athorium> wow me?
01:25:35  <Bjarni> the best way to learn coding is learning by doing
01:25:48  <Athorium> no, no, my drawing not very good... see my trains... -_-
01:25:56  <BFM> I know trigonometry and geometry etc, but programming :S Unless you need some Excel Macro's written :S
01:25:57  <Rubidium> the best way to learn the OTTD code is by doing major surgery in it :)
01:26:15  <Athorium> coding, I learning C++ in a private formation school (european) but I need a lot of more time to learn something :P
01:27:23  <Athorium> I tried to solve some conflicts with tortoise, and I only maded... have all script in red ^^¡
01:32:53  <izhirahider> You can't expect to understand openttd code in one sweep :)
01:33:20  <Bjarni> the trick is to aim at a single goal and not be distracted by all the other code
01:33:36  <Bjarni> then figure out what you want to do, code and figure out if you broke anything
01:33:39  <Athorium> yeah, but I no understand anything... :P
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01:34:42  <Athorium> well, i downloaded grfcodec...
01:34:43  <Athorium> and now?
01:35:49  <Bjarni> read the docs
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01:36:06  <Bjarni> it uses CLI and it can basically extract and create grf files
01:36:19  <Bjarni> both somewhat easily if you read the docs
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01:47:37  <Bjarni> goodnight
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02:01:06  <helb> gn
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02:01:11  <Athorium> hi
02:04:50  <Athorium> someone here?
02:04:57  * Sacro looks around...
02:04:58  <Sacro> nope
02:05:11  <Athorium> ah, allright
02:05:14  <Sacro> :P
02:05:36  <Athorium> Sacro, you know how can I see all "required" sprites to change the road?
02:05:53  <Sacro> err... check the ttdpatch wiki
02:05:57  <Sacro> or ask Born_Acorn
02:06:24  <Athorium>  Born_Acorn you're here?
02:07:42  <Sacro> i know he has done a road set
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02:08:39  <Athorium> oh
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02:10:18  <Athorium> I no see any... :(
02:10:33  <izhirahider> Athorium,
02:10:46  <Athorium> but I need how to make, no one maked in-game
02:10:50  <Athorium> to see dimensions, etc
02:12:51  <Athorium> u know any image that appears all sprites?
02:13:56  <Athorium> yeah
02:13:57  <Athorium>
02:13:59  <Athorium> this I need
02:14:01  <Athorium> but in roads only
02:14:03  <Athorium> not bridges
02:14:56  <Rubidium> Athorium: gtfcodec makes such an image
02:15:10  <Rubidium> *grfcodec
02:15:19  <glx> grfcodec -d file.grf
02:15:43  <glx> then you get SPRITE/file.nfo and SPRITE/file.pcx
02:16:29  <glx> *SPRITES
02:16:42  <Athorium> ok, wait a sec
02:17:33  <Athorium> yeah
02:17:35  <Athorium> I have it
02:17:35  <Athorium> ^^
02:17:41  <Athorium> thx
02:23:32  <Athorium> but.. why appears in different colors than original (my game shows it in grey) pcx have colors in brown :S
02:23:57  <glx> run grfcodec -h to get the help
02:24:23  <glx> and use grfcodec -d -p to use the correct palette
02:25:08  <Athorium> ok
02:27:41  <glx> hmm indeed grfcodec without any param is enough to get help
02:28:00  <Athorium> yeha, now I see nice
02:28:01  <Athorium> ^^
02:28:14  <Athorium> and to compile my creation? (to test)
02:28:28  <glx> you need to write a .nfo
02:28:41  <Athorium> ops
02:29:07  <Athorium> and if I replace my actual set to test it?
02:29:12  <Athorium> and use the actual info?
02:30:15  <glx>
02:30:33  <glx> following this tutorial should be good :)
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02:31:04  <Athorium> good for a english man..
02:31:24  <Athorium> I think that coding have to make another.. :S
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02:52:13  <Athorium> wtf
02:52:17  <Athorium> why I can't add any roadset?
02:52:18  <Athorium> :S
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03:41:22  <Eddi|zuHause> bah, it can't be that there are no sensible disk editors for linux
03:42:45  <Eddi|zuHause> sensible being that they provide a useful interface, and don't try to read the complete "file" at once
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04:19:57  <Sacro> grr, why are all my trains going to servicing when its disabled
04:20:06  <Sacro> and i've closed off all the depot entrances
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04:38:56  <Nigel> it's not the trains, it's the drivers
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05:06:33  <Aloysha> why are all my servers at 2199?
05:12:30  <Aloysha> i'm talking about 0.5.0-RC1 servers, btw...
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05:42:21  <Nigel> someone's been playing them?
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07:19:14  <mattt_> do i have to build an electric vehicle first before i can build electric rail?  because i don't see the rail as an option
07:19:49  <Eddi|zuHause> you need to have an electric vehicle available
07:20:41  <mattt_> one is  available :/
07:21:17  <Eddi|zuHause> which version?
07:21:30  <mattt_> 0.4.8
07:21:50  <Eddi|zuHause> 0.4.8 does not have elrails
07:21:55  <mattt_> oh
07:22:04  <mattt_> so electric engines can run on the regular rail?
07:22:35  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, elrails get introduced in 0.5.0
07:22:44  <mattt_> ok, thanks
07:23:36  <Eddi|zuHause> generally, if you are able to build a vehicle in a depot, it can run on that railtype
07:23:57  <mattt_> oh ok
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07:25:13  <jnmbk> hi, what does load vehicles gradually do?
07:25:46  <Eddi|zuHause> it loads goods into wagons step by step, not instantly
07:26:01  <jnmbk> ok
07:26:23  <Eddi|zuHause> on the other hand, it can load each wagon simultaneously, so loading might be faster overall, for long trains
07:27:16  <jnmbk> and that "Show company liveries"
07:27:43  <jnmbk> i can't understand it (so can't translate)
07:28:58  <Eddi|zuHause> liveries are how the vehicles are painted
07:29:19  <Eddi|zuHause> 2cc support includes that you can customize liveries for different vehicle classes
07:29:41  <Eddi|zuHause> like you can paint busses red/green and passenger trains red/blue
07:29:55  <Eddi|zuHause> instead of one single company colour
07:30:12  <jnmbk> I'll try it...
07:30:18  <jnmbk> what is 2cc ?
07:30:26  <Eddi|zuHause> two company colours
07:32:13  <Eddi|zuHause> it requires you to use a set which supports 2cc, like the UKRS set
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08:36:34  <MeusH> hello
08:37:00  <peter1138> hi
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09:23:39  <Celestar> morning
09:24:33  <hylje> y
09:24:35  <peter1138> hi
09:24:46  <Celestar> hows stuff?
09:24:52  <peter1138> alright
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09:30:53  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: good job on the rewrite
09:31:05  <KUDr> thanks
09:31:13  <KUDr> i did my best
09:31:45  <KUDr> did you test it on some problematic map?
09:36:42  <peter1138> rewrite?
09:37:20  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: yes I did
09:37:27  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: increase of performance about factor of 4
09:37:38  <KUDr> good
09:37:53  <KUDr> !openttd commit 7585
09:37:55  <_42_> Commit by KUDr :: r7585 /trunk/ (station.h station_cmd.c) (2006-12-27 23:11:43 UTC)
09:37:57  <_42_> -Codechange: CheckStationSpreadOut() took too much CPU. Station rectangle is now maintained instead of calculating it each time by walking through whole map. Should help with the performance issue related to AIs trying to build road stops too often. (idea by Celestar)
09:38:16  <peter1138> hmm
09:38:51  <peter1138> wha
09:38:57  <peter1138> why more min/max macros?
09:39:10  <KUDr> we don't have any
09:39:14  <peter1138> ...
09:39:15  <KUDr> only functions
09:39:19  <peter1138> min & max are all over the place
09:39:23  <KUDr> for int type
09:39:33  <KUDr> this is uint16
09:39:48  <KUDr> still not C++ and template functions ;)
09:39:59  <peter1138> int works for uint16, heh
09:40:20  <peter1138> why uint16 anyway?
09:40:21  <KUDr> but is 3x more complex than direct compare
09:40:37  <KUDr> 16->32, cmp, 32->16
09:40:54  <KUDr> sorry but it can be only source of problems
09:41:01  <KUDr> it should stay macros
09:41:07  <KUDr> not C func
09:41:16  <KUDr> C++ templates are also good
09:41:19  <KUDr> but...
09:42:01  <KUDr> uint16 is appropriate for map dimensions
09:42:03  <peter1138> iirc (and i have no citation), x86 is faster with 32 bit ints than 16 bit ints...
09:42:26  <KUDr> but conversion is 3x slower than compare
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09:43:01  <peter1138> hence leave it all int
09:43:13  <peter1138> TileX/Y return uint any
09:43:14  <peter1138> way
09:43:21  <KUDr> using 32 bit values you (or others) can beat me that i waste memory
09:44:11  <Sutherland> good morning foks
09:44:12  <KUDr> never can satisfy all of you guys
09:44:27  <peter1138> nope :)(
09:44:32  <peter1138> -(
09:44:36  <peter1138> bloody keyboard
09:45:20  <KUDr> peter1138: if you like it different way, feel free to change it
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09:50:26  <Celestar> KUDr: so do we have any idea on how to proceed with that signalling stuff?
09:50:54  <Celestar>  28.29     47.76    22.21  7143035     0.00     0.00  IndustryDirectoryWndProc
09:50:56  <Celestar> :o
09:51:03  <Celestar> I didn't even have that window open
09:51:03  <hylje> :O
09:51:40  <KUDr> i am working on squrrel binding now
09:51:49  <hylje> squirrels?
09:52:08  <KUDr> hopefully it can help us to prototype new algorithm
09:52:11  <peter1138> Celestar: it also doesn't look like a very complicated function
09:53:11  <KUDr> hylje: only one squirrel
09:53:19  <KUDr> would be enough
09:54:34  <KUDr> Celestar: would you like to optimize 'IndustryDirectory' sorting too?
09:55:20  <Celestar> peter1138: I'm re-doing the profiling
09:56:12  <peter1138> hmmn
09:56:21  <peter1138> i need to install... ttdpatch :/
09:56:56  <Celestar> why?
09:57:23  * Celestar is looking at a Live aircraft tracker of Frankfurt Airport. Looks differently from what ottd does :P
09:57:45  <peter1138> to compare values
09:59:40  <Celestar> this intercont airport is very nice \o/
09:59:48  <peter1138> it's buggy
09:59:50  <Celestar> I just don't like the two different directions :P
09:59:53  <Celestar> how so?
10:00:04  <Celestar> I'm staring at it for 10 minutes now without a lockup :P
10:00:14  <peter1138> give it a lot of planes
10:00:21  <peter1138> it won't lock up
10:00:29  <Celestar> but it's not too efficient, right?
10:01:20  <peter1138> but you'll get queues in taxi area, and empty loading areas
10:01:42  <Celestar> I wish there was a "clone 2, 4, 8, 16 times" function :P
10:01:55  <Celestar> peter1138: well, sounds all like Heathrow to me :P
10:02:47  <Celestar> the intercont airport (just like Heathrow) misses something critical
10:03:06  <peter1138> heh
10:03:13  <Celestar> dual taxiways
10:03:36  <peter1138> problem is already loading planes have priority in the taxi area
10:03:51  <peter1138> i think
10:03:52  <Celestar> these empty gates and blocked taxiways look more like Chicago
10:03:59  <peter1138> i dunno exactly
10:04:07  <peter1138> gates. that's it, hhe
10:04:23  <Celestar> often enough, Chicago has stuck planes all over the place even though the (7) runways have capacity
10:04:38  <Celestar> hm
10:04:51  <Celestar> a single run by a Dinger 1000 gives more money than the plane costs :o
10:05:50  <peter1138> heh
10:06:21  <Celestar> gah
10:06:27  <Celestar> I see what you mean
10:06:40  <Celestar> aircraft holding in air because aircraft on arrival runways cannot clear arrival runway
10:07:13  <Celestar> (Chicago has a "penalty box" for that issue)
10:07:56  <peter1138> if you've any idea how to fix it...
10:08:00  <Celestar> do we have an FTA map of that airport somewhere
10:08:02  <Celestar> I have an idea
10:08:06  <peter1138> (should go into 0.5)
10:08:20  <Celestar> yeah
10:08:24  <peter1138> i don't think richk produced any
10:08:26  <Celestar> but I might need a bit more tarmac
10:08:31  <Celestar> where is he anyway??
10:08:37  <peter1138> busy i guess
10:08:43  <Celestar> ok
10:08:49  <Celestar> there's just one thing he has forgotten
10:09:04  <Celestar> Arrival traffic must ALWAYS get precedence
10:10:23  <Celestar> (I've now thrown 128 aircraft at the airport)
10:10:56  <Celestar> (passenger rating is still poor with 4096 waiting :P)
10:11:16  <Celestar> must replace aircraft
10:11:30  <peter1138> yay for clone
10:11:35  <peter1138> i just cloned 200 aircraft :D
10:11:42  <peter1138> now i shall use "start all"
10:11:52  <Celestar> er
10:11:57  <Celestar> how do I replace aircraft?
10:12:10  <peter1138> use the "manage list" menu thing
10:12:13  <Celestar> but you had to click 200 times as well?
10:12:17  <peter1138> yeah
10:12:27  <peter1138> but easier than buying each and assign orders
10:12:36  <Celestar> cool
10:12:55  <Celestar> well ok
10:13:05  <Celestar> you see those two little buildings next to the hangars?
10:13:18  <peter1138> yeah
10:13:38  <Celestar> maybe we should remove them
10:13:44  <Celestar> then we could have dual taxiways in the gate area
10:13:48  <peter1138> they look a little silly
10:13:58  <Celestar> one taxiway for incoming aircraft, one for outgoing aircraft
10:14:27  <Biff> peter1138: cant you use autoreplace?
10:14:50  <peter1138> huh?
10:14:52  <Celestar> damnit
10:15:01  <Celestar> I have 36 aircraf stuck in a single hangar :o
10:15:18  <peter1138> i've got a couple of hundred ;p
10:15:21  <peter1138> nearly
10:16:32  <Celestar> damnit
10:16:39  <Celestar> where the hell is the additional viewport?!
10:17:15  <Celestar> we need to put it to some better place
10:17:21  <peter1138> map -> extra viewport
10:17:23  <peter1138> (obviously)
10:17:41  <Biff> peter1138: instead of cloning 200 aircraft :p
10:17:48  <peter1138> ...
10:17:52  <peter1138> autoreplace replaces aircraft
10:17:56  <peter1138> it doesn't create them
10:18:48  <Biff> oh
10:18:52  <Biff> you needed extra
10:18:57  <Celestar> hehe
10:19:11  <Celestar> one viewport per monitor :)
10:19:14  <peter1138> nice
10:19:37  <Celestar> .oO(I was actually profiling)
10:19:37  <peter1138> would be cool if viewports could be in separate windows
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10:21:23  <peter1138> brrrrrr
10:21:24  <Biff> i have two monitors, but i dont think i'll ever use that
10:21:30  <peter1138> it's cold in the machine room :/
10:21:41  <roboboy> hello
10:21:52  <Celestar> peter1138: not here, the A/C failed :S
10:22:02  <Celestar> we're up to 31°C and I hope the tech comes soon :S
10:22:08  <peter1138> hee
10:22:10  <peter1138> hmm
10:22:16  <peter1138> with loads of planes circling
10:22:24  <peter1138> it is really obvious they're not circling
10:22:27  <peter1138> they're squaring
10:22:33  <Celestar> well
10:22:43  <Celestar> planes don't circle the airport anyway normally
10:22:51  <Celestar> the circle miles away from the airport
10:22:54  <peter1138> yeah
10:22:59  <Celestar> on an oval
10:23:07  <peter1138> but they don't take 90 degree turns
10:23:15  <Celestar> one minute straigh, one minute turn (180°), one minute straight, one minute turn (180°)
10:23:21  <Celestar> so one holding pattern is four minutes
10:23:25  <Biff> its minus 5 deg or something here (celsius)
10:23:33  <Celestar> -7 here (outside)
10:23:52  <peter1138> it's above 0 here
10:23:54  <peter1138> dunno what
10:24:07  <MeusH> it's a above 0 and there's no sign of snow
10:24:13  <peter1138> innit
10:25:00  <peter1138> Celestar: with the way the AI places airports, that's holding pattern is several times longer than the route :)
10:25:17  <Celestar> haha
10:28:39  <Celestar> FRA approach is somehow more efficient that ours :P
10:28:56  <Celestar>
10:29:18  <peter1138> jnlp file?
10:29:38  <Celestar> JAva web start
10:31:31  <Eddi|zuHause> we have a few odd snowflakes falling
10:31:44  <Eddi|zuHause> like 3 per second
10:31:51  <Eddi|zuHause> and squaremeter
10:31:55  <Celestar> hey I see the sun
10:32:40  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... how can i use dd to write into a file at a position, without cutting off everything afterwards...
10:33:15  <Eddi|zuHause> this is fucking rediculous, no program actually does what i want...
10:33:50  <Celestar> vi? :P
10:34:37  <Eddi|zuHause> i did not manage telling vi to not actually load the (1+GB) file
10:34:48  <Eddi|zuHause> [into memory]
10:36:36  <Celestar> maybe hexdump?
10:39:17  <Eddi|zuHause> hexdump does not sound like a program that can write into files
10:40:01  <Celestar> hexdump > file :P
10:40:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i want to replace a few 4kB blocks in the middle of a file
10:40:36  <Eddi|zuHause> with neither the beginning nor the end of the file
10:40:53  <Noldo> dd is your friend :)
10:41:09  <peter1138> ahh... back in the day, i'd do that by disk editing
10:41:14  <Celestar> use dd on the input to stream to standard out
10:41:26  <peter1138> admittedly it was a bit easier with those ancient file systems
10:41:59  <Celestar> dd if=infile of=temp bs=4k count=42; cat newstuff >> temp; dd if=infile bs=4k start=somehwere >> temp
10:42:06  <Celestar> something like that
10:42:12  <Eddi|zuHause> i repeat: i do not want to _touch_ the rest of the file, that includes _not_ reading and writing back
10:42:27  <Celestar> y?
10:42:38  <Eddi|zuHause> because 1GB >> 4kB
10:43:20  <Celestar> well, and why can you not use dd?
10:43:26  <Celestar> because it truncates the file?
10:43:29  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
10:43:38  <Celestar> then you need to write directly onto the partition :)
10:43:55  <Noldo> make your own c program
10:44:10  <Celestar> or that :)
10:44:36  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: !!!
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10:44:38  <Celestar>        notrunc
10:44:38  <Celestar>               do not truncate the output file
10:44:46  <Eddi|zuHause> where?
10:44:53  <Celestar> man dd
10:45:31  <Celestar> just try with conv=notrunc
10:46:12  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... let's see
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10:50:20  <Eddi|zuHause> indeed, that seems to do the trick
10:51:41  <Darkvater> peter1138: I told the same thing gto KUDr
10:52:45  <peter1138> ^^
10:53:09  <Darkvater> I just don't know ye how annoyed I am to fix it
10:55:42  <Darkvater> especially the min/max macros... there is already minu/maxu for unsigned,,,
10:57:03  <Celestar> :o
10:57:09  <Celestar> an Aeroflot plane has been hijacked
11:02:15  <Celestar> Airbus A321, hijacker has is in custody
11:02:40  <peter1138> "Under US law, airlines must be 75% owned and controlled by US citizens."
11:02:41  <peter1138> heh
11:02:57  <Athorium> hiii
11:03:57  <Eddi|zuHause> yay, the snow got denser [or is this: more dense?] ;)
11:04:11  <peter1138> heavier
11:05:03  <Eddi|zuHause> weird language :p
11:05:32  <Athorium> hey, what can I add to a interurban roads...
11:05:39  <Athorium> trees? kilometrical posts?...
11:05:58  <Eddi|zuHause> Athorium: make suggestion for Wolf01's eyecandy patch
11:06:17  <Athorium> :?
11:07:54  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01 was making a patch to use the buy land tool to place eycandy tiles
11:08:20  <Eddi|zuHause> and somewhere on the forum he was asking people what kind of eyecandy they'd want to place on the map
11:08:54  <Darkvater> newobjects
11:10:12  <peter1138> ah, the spec is appearing
11:10:19  <peter1138> 2/3 hours ago
11:10:35  <Athorium> ah
11:10:40  <Athorium> but I saying
11:10:59  <Athorium> I trying to make a road, and on road, what can I add? kilometrical posts?
11:11:02  <Athorium> or nothing?
11:11:05  <peter1138> i do hope their patch has stopped storing sprite ids in the map
11:11:46  <peter1138> roads are either plain, or with pavements, trees or streetlamps
11:12:06  <Darkvater> eis_os relaeased the specs?
11:12:17  <peter1138> no
11:12:28  <Rubidium> Darkvater/peter1138: what do you think of ? The issue it solves is the fact that when you click various buttons when shift is held down the cost estimation comes up and nothing changes. Examples are face customization 'Ok' button, the 'Ok' buttons for almost all rename windows, the pause button and many others.
11:12:33  <peter1138> it mentions one property and nothing else yet
11:12:47  <Athorium> yes but for example, I can draw a kilometrical post
11:12:51  <Athorium> in interurban roads...
11:13:08  <peter1138> draw one then
11:13:21  <Darkvater> ah. I've read in initial spec of storing grfid on map...bad idea
11:13:34  <peter1138> for newobjects?
11:13:50  <peter1138> more likely a reference in a lookup table
11:13:53  <Athorium> no, for my roads "decorative
11:13:56  <Darkvater> Rubidium: shift is for estimation only
11:14:04  <Celestar> hm
11:14:07  <Celestar> doing progress \o/
11:14:25  <Rubidium> yes, but the cost estimation for pausing?
11:14:26  <peter1138> if (cost != 0) showestimation()...
11:14:38  <KUDr> Darkvater: if you want i can add minu16/maxu16 inline functions, but using 32 bit functions for comparing 16 bit values is not the way
11:14:40  <peter1138> hmm, 'cept some stuff does cost nothing
11:14:46  <Darkvater> not for estimation sometimes and not estimation othet times
11:15:21  <Rubidium> Darkvater: I only removed the cost estimastion for things where there never is a cost
11:15:32  <Darkvater> KUDr: then change the values to 32bit. Those 8 extra bytes really won't kill
11:16:01  <Rubidium> like pausing the game or changing the name of the company
11:16:08  <KUDr> but remember that VC doesn't inline functions so it will be slower in debug builds :)
11:16:21  <Rubidium> or reversing trains
11:16:26  <Darkvater> lol @kudr
11:16:44  <Darkvater> gcc doesn't inline either
11:16:56  <peter1138> macros are there to be avoided
11:17:06  <peter1138> just like casts
11:17:53  <peter1138> (ignoring my horrible huge macro which contains casts...)
11:18:46  <MeusH> Rubidium, I like it, and it seems to be faster than peter1138's idea as the function won't be even executed
11:19:07  <Darkvater> MeusH: ?
11:19:08  <KUDr> then it is time to switch to C++ and avoid BEGIN_TILE_LOOP, END_TILE_LOOP, FOR_ALL_STATIONS, etc. :)
11:19:41  <MeusH> well, I think Rubidium's patch is better than adding  if (cost != 0)
11:19:58  <MeusH> I'm not sure but it's just my opinion
11:20:05  <Darkvater> MeusH: the function is executed just the same...
11:20:21  <MeusH> oh
11:20:28  <MeusH> I should have read the diff first :|
11:20:57  <MeusH> noone said a good word about patch so I thought Rubidium may get a bit sad
11:21:01  <Darkvater> Rubidium: what is wrong with CMD_RENAME_TOWN?
11:21:26  <Darkvater> or CMD_ORDER_REFIT?
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11:22:08  <Darkvater> This could get confusing when SHIFT sometimes gives estimation and other times doesn't
11:22:51  <Darkvater> yet, some commands are pretty hardcore (like mass_stop) that making the SHIFT_ mistake has serious consequences
11:23:43  *** Celestar [] has joined #openttd
11:24:07  <Rubidium> what I've done is marked every command that does never cost anything ignore the shift
11:24:25  <MeusH> what would you do Darkvater? Nothing, stay with Rubidium's idea but fix it, or rather do what Peter said?
11:24:57  <peter1138> i think if shift is pressed, it shouldn't execute the command. i dunno if that's what it does
11:25:13  <Nigel> Darkvater, you forgot to post a news article on the project for RC1
11:25:25  <peter1138> we don't use the project bollocks
11:26:18  <Rubidium> peter1138: so pause shouldn't work when pressing shift, nor renaming anything, stopping trains, ...
11:27:00  <MeusH> aww
11:27:04  <peter1138> it is it now?
11:27:31  <peter1138> hmm
11:27:34  <MeusH> I didn't know what bollock is
11:27:36  <MeusH> so I checked
11:27:37  <MeusH>
11:27:39  <peter1138> lol
11:27:41  <MeusH> awful bollock
11:28:00  <Nigel> peter1138, i thought it was only the trackers that where no longer used (your still using the Download facitities for release, and you have posted what seems to be a fair proportion of releases since 0.3.6)
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11:28:49  <Rubidium> peter1138, an example: (it also doesn't toggle the checkbox in this case)
11:30:58  <Darkvater> Rubidium: imho SHIFT should remain as a no-op so far
11:31:20  <Darkvater> in this way a user knows the cost of an action
11:31:38  <Darkvater> it is really counter-inituative to check for something's cost and instead have it executed
11:31:59  <Darkvater> because why would changing company colours be free?
11:32:16  <Darkvater> MeusH: we never posted news messages for release candidates on SF
11:32:47  <Nigel> Darkvater, err i think that was to me, and my reply is: okay understood ;)
11:32:54  <Rubidium> ok, can you then close FS#476?
11:32:56  <MeusH> yeah that's for Nigel :)
11:32:57  <Darkvater> you then ;)
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11:33:21  <Wolf01> hello
11:34:47  <Frostregen> hi
11:34:56  <Darkvater> Rubidium: yea
11:35:09  <Darkvater> peter1138: damn stupid search on the forums...can't find the newobjects thread
11:35:41  <Wolf01> ttdpatch suggestions
11:35:53  <peter1138> heh
11:35:54  <Darkvater> ha, there
11:36:15  <Darkvater> here
11:36:16  <Darkvater>
11:36:22  <Darkvater> "We have enough room for storing full grfids in the landscape for bogus objects, so we don't need to screw stations really."
11:36:26  <Darkvater> that scares me
11:36:58  <Celestar> Darkvater: ?
11:37:08  <peter1138> i don't think it'll work like that
11:37:25  <Celestar> bah the AI is getting on my butt
11:37:31  <peter1138> "In total, each game can only have 255 object IDs for all active grf files."
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11:37:47  <peter1138> which indicates that it's storing that object id, not the grf id
11:38:34  <Darkvater> yeah...will be nice to have object-id's conflicting ;p
11:38:50  <Frostregen> how is this currently done for stations?
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11:39:17  <Darkvater> it's 255*255 no? 255 classes and each class can have 255 id's
11:39:20  <MeusH> are they going to mess up the game completly and then want openttd to keep up with that rubbish?
11:39:28  <peter1138> hmm?
11:39:46  <peter1138> we don't have to abide such limits
11:39:52  <Wolf01> we already have it
11:39:59  <Darkvater> MeusH: ?
11:40:02  <peter1138> in ttdp, you can only have 255 different newstations
11:40:15  <peter1138> we can only have 255 different newstations *per station*
11:40:23  <Frostregen> ah, ok
11:40:49  <Darkvater> hehe HD-DVD has been cracked :)
11:41:00  <MeusH> haha :) give link please :)
11:41:21  <Darkvater>
11:41:21  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7589 /branches/makefile_rewrite/os/macosx/ (5 files): [MakefileRewrite] -Fix: remove now unneeded OSX Makefiles and 0-byte weblocations
11:43:10  <Wolf01> what i can't figure out is why we still are a step before ttdpatch... they only have newgrfs which may get our attention
11:43:48  <MeusH> Wolf01, I think because OpenTTD has no limits, thus it's easier to make a feature
11:44:02  <MeusH> while TTDPatch's limits bust be tweaked or went around first to code a new feature
11:44:30  <Wolf01> they pay us to make a limited version of ottd to keep some players?
11:44:54  <hylje> :o
11:44:54  <MeusH> lol :) no
11:44:59  <hylje> i wish
11:45:09  <MeusH> anyway, I'm kinda happy TTDPatch has some players
11:45:30  <MeusH> it would be sad if Josef's and his companions' work won't be used
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11:45:49  <MeusH> you know, they took several years to make TTDPatch, and I hope they will have players playing the game
11:47:12  <Wolf01> i'm happy too, but is so strange that game with all the new features enabled.. seem a mock up between TTO and OTTD
11:48:03  <Alltaken> hey is OTTD more developed than the patch yet?
11:48:26  <MeusH> in some parts, yes, but certainly no in the other parts
11:48:31  <MeusH> it's difficult for me to judge
11:48:38  <MeusH> probably developers will know better
11:48:42  <MeusH> they always know better :p
11:49:54  <Zavior> I felt like mini-in was ahead or atleast equal to ttdp
11:50:00  <Zavior> Mainly because of pbs :P
11:50:06  <Zavior> Buggy or not
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11:51:06  <Wolf01> the experimental multipatch build based on miniIN was enough advanced to beat all...
11:51:25  <Wolf01> it missed only trams
11:51:44  <Celestar> well, we have bridges over arbitrary stuff now
11:52:07  <Wolf01> yeah, thank you Celestar (and tron) :D
11:52:19  <CIA-1> KUDr * r7590 /trunk/ (station.h station_cmd.c):
11:52:19  <CIA-1> -Codechange: (r7585)
11:52:19  <CIA-1>  - use existing struct Rect instead of declaring new StationRect
11:52:19  <CIA-1>  - use inline functions instead of macros
11:54:51  <stillunknown> sometimes i wonder why ttdpatch is still coded, it must be easier to put new things into ottd
11:55:57  <Wolf01> i also tried to understand how to make diagonal roads, but is way too hard for me... maybe with tmesisbob's patch (which is lost) i could have done something (maybe only synced)
11:57:07  <hylje> diagonal roads would be most win
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11:58:31  <Gonozal_VIII> i think that wouldn't be easy
11:59:07  <peter1138>  hmm
11:59:29  <Gonozal_VIII> should towns build them? waste of space? diagonal buildings needed? ai also build them?
11:59:44  <hylje> they would work the same way rails work now
12:00:19  <hylje> would waste space just as much as zigzag road
12:00:52  <Gonozal_VIII> not inside a town
12:01:41  <Gonozal_VIII> as towns don't build zigzag...
12:01:51  <Wolf01> have you never palyed sim city 3000?
12:02:22  <Gonozal_VIII> there is more space between the roads
12:02:37  <Wolf01> i think is the same
12:03:08  <Gonozal_VIII> there are 6-8 squares i think, in openttd it's only 1-2
12:03:49  <hylje> in simcity 3k buildings can develop three tiles from a road
12:03:51  <Darkvater> ttdpatch rules :D
12:03:58  <Wolf01>
12:04:06  <Gonozal_VIII> so 6 squares then
12:04:08  <Darkvater> sometimes...I really miss some ottd stuff though
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12:06:47  <Wolf01> there isn't a big waste of space
12:08:41  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm that are 4*4 blocks?
12:09:12  <hylje>
12:09:51  <Gonozal_VIII> Winning bid:	US .25  <-- wtf?
12:11:42  <MeusH> take a look at shipping costs now
12:12:18  <Gonozal_VIII> saw that...
12:13:05  <Gonozal_VIII> IF winning  Auction Bid  is over 0.00 you will receive an EXTRA FREE Wireless Controller
12:13:05  <Gonozal_VIII> IF winning Auction Bid is over 00.00 you will recieve an EXTRA Wireless Controller PLUS a FREE
12:13:05  <Gonozal_VIII> GAME - Of Your CHOICE
12:13:11  <Gonozal_VIII> that was close^^
12:13:52  <ln->  (it's not offensive)
12:20:19  <Biff> 2.25$ for a PS3?
12:20:24  <Biff> that was a decent price
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12:27:41  <dpd> hey, i have a problem with openttd 0.5.0 can someone give me some help pls
12:28:00  <Wolf01> tell us the problem
12:29:32  <dpd> sorry for my bad english, but i can build only 2 planes anymore and helicopters aren't in the list anymore
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12:29:53  <dpd> i have a screenshot of the problem
12:29:57  <Wolf01> which year?
12:30:02  <dpd> 2031
12:30:22  <Wolf01> do you set "vehicles never expire" on the patches configuration?
12:32:15  <dpd> i will see one minute pls
12:34:28  <dpd> turned off
12:34:44  <Wolf01> turn it on and then open the console and type resetengines
12:36:20  <dpd> its on
12:36:22  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7591 /branches/makefile_rewrite/ (151 files in 18 dirs): [MakefileRewrite] -Sync: with trunk (r7492:r7590). This so some of the documentation can be updated to reflect the changes in the Makefile Rewrite.
12:36:35  <dpd> but what do yo mean with the console?
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12:39:59  <dpd> i found the console and they are back my planes
12:40:12  <dpd> THANK you very much Wolf01
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12:52:01  <Rubidium> Darkvater: docs/Readme_Windows_MSVC.txt seems hopelessly outdated (it mentions MSVC 6 all over the place, references to an old
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12:53:01  <Celestar> hm
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12:55:02  <Rubidium> same is maybe true for the OS/2 Readme as it mentions a which I cannot find at the given location and does Watcom support C++?
12:59:31  <Celestar> bah
13:00:21  <Rubidium> what to do with the mandriva howto? Is there a real need for it post 0.5?
13:01:28  <peter1138> mandriva?
13:01:36  <Rubidium> uhm.. mandrake even
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13:05:46  <jame> hey, question can i change trains or other vehicles in one time to another model ?
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13:07:16  <jnmbk> jame: use autorenew... it slowly changes them when they go to depot...
13:07:28  <Darkvater> Rubidium: yeah I know..that whole folder is hopelessly outdated... we should fix that up for the final, shouldn't we?
13:07:30  <Rubidium> it's called autoreplace
13:07:37  <Darkvater> I can take care of MSVC I think
13:07:46  <peter1138> hmm
13:07:46  <Darkvater> he dominik's mandrake howto ;p
13:07:50  <Celestar> ^^
13:08:03  <MeusH> jnmbk, use autoreplace
13:08:07  <jame> jnmbk but i wanne change to a faster model of of them
13:08:18  <MeusH> open a trainlist
13:08:26  <MeusH> find a drop-down list
13:08:34  <MeusH> the first item in the list should be autoreplace
13:08:52  <jame> jnmbk but i wanne change to a faster model all of them
13:08:54  <MeusH> you pick what's the bad vehicle, what's the good vehicle, and that's it :)
13:08:55  <jnmbk> MeusH: I forgot the english of it :) played it too much in my language
13:09:17  <Celestar> why does populating an ldap database take like 10 minutes?!
13:09:36  <jnmbk> jame: there's no instant way to change them all
13:09:39  <Rubidium> because a serial null-modem cable isn't that fast?
13:10:17  <jame> jnmbk i think in a different version it was possible
13:10:22  <Celestar> Rubidium: from a local file :S
13:10:53  <jnmbk> jame: send all to depots and then use autoreplace...
13:11:05  <jnmbk> it's a faster solution...
13:11:16  <peter1138> jame: it is possible, it's just been moved to a menu on the vehicle list
13:11:50  <MeusH> I think autoreplace makes train visit the depot, even if you have no breakdowns = no servicing
13:12:39  <hylje> it doesnt
13:12:41  <jame> peter1138 is the smartest thanks i didnt kn ow it was moved
13:12:44  <jame> thnx all
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13:14:57  <jnmbk> in strings.c "void InitializeLanguagePacks(void)" ottd chooses language from env variables, what about town names and currencies :)
13:18:08  <Darkvater> hmm have we decided what to do with unsafe (static) grf's that want to be active on the title screen?
13:18:13  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7592 /trunk/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Feature: Add support for tractive effort to 'realistic' acceleration.
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13:18:20  <peter1138> Darkvater: fuck em
13:18:43  <Born_Acorn> woo tractive effort
13:18:56  <Darkvater> peter1138: alpinew.grf
13:18:59  <Born_Acorn> The one thing I couldn't poke Hackykid into committing. :p
13:19:11  <peter1138> alpinew isn't safe
13:19:26  <peter1138> therefore, why should you have it on the title screen?
13:19:32  <Darkvater> yes but it does change the landscape grf
13:19:50  <peter1138> yes, for in a game
13:20:30  <Darkvater> touchy? :)
13:20:50  <peter1138> alpine adds more than just the landscape
13:21:23  <peter1138> it fiddles with cargo and other stuff
13:21:27  <peter1138> so i see no reason to alow it
13:21:29  <peter1138> +l
13:22:32  <Darkvater> of course..but it does change the landscape grf in the intro-window; so it does look weird without. and some font files do use action b to force-activate themselves in the intro screen which causes us to mark them unsafe
13:22:49  <peter1138> weird without?
13:23:08  <peter1138> we can allow that
13:23:18  <peter1138> the action b where it's trying to force itself
13:23:19  <Darkvater>
13:23:20  <Darkvater> lool
13:23:33  <peter1138> but not some random grf that you think looks nice
13:24:50  <Darkvater> know, I
13:24:58  <peter1138> yoda you?
13:25:42  <peter1138> wow, ton force is a gay unit
13:25:50  <peter1138> shall i make it kN for all units? heh
13:26:24  <Darkvater> me yoda knows much
13:26:44  <Born_Acorn> <-- Shouldn't it be the actual game developers who make such decisions? :p
13:28:32  <peter1138> heh
13:28:44  <Athorium> why I can't install UKRoadset? :S
13:28:55  <peter1138> you're yoda too?
13:29:25  <Born_Acorn> I mean, the current mindset seems to be "We'll make all the decisions, the devs can do all the hard work"
13:29:54  <Rubidium> does that bug mentioned in docs/directmusic still exist? It also mentions MSVC6.
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13:30:49  <glx> Rubidium: yes
13:31:01  <glx> you can still hear music at min level
13:31:05  <peter1138> so, again, kN for all? :p
13:31:19  <Born_Acorn> kNs!
13:31:27  * Born_Acorn kills Newton
13:31:47  <Rubidium> so it's almost 3 years in there and it's still will be fixed 'soon' :)
13:32:26  <Darkvater> if you don't want music just turn it off
13:33:01  <hylje> Born_Acorn: stuff into scale if/when 3d engine is implemented
13:33:30  <Born_Acorn> Theres no plans for a 3d engine.
13:33:36  <Born_Acorn> Just a 32bpp colour one
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13:34:01  <Darkvater> < that sirkoz guy is annoying
13:34:33  <peter1138> heh
13:34:34  <Born_Acorn> Seems to be anti-OpenTTD but pro MiniIN :p
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13:36:07  <izhirahider> I have a question regarding town generation: Say that towns are generated by a prefix in an array A and a suffix in an array B. Using seedChance() to fetch A[x] and B[y], isn't there a remote possibility that one can have duplicate town names? it just needs that the same pair (x,y) is generated twice. It can happen with random numbers. Or am I missing something?
13:36:43  <Celestar> maybe the program stores generated town names?
13:38:18  <peter1138> izhirahider: it compares against existing town names
13:39:00  <Rubidium> hmm, what are we going to do with docs/console.txt? It is really hopelessly outdated (and even beyond that)
13:39:05  <peter1138> Darkvater: got a smart-arsed reply for him? :)
13:39:12  <peter1138> ah :)
13:39:19  <Born_Acorn> Fire off a double shot
13:39:22  <Darkvater> Why don't you go play miniIN then and stop bothering us sirkoz?
13:39:38  <izhirahider> peter1138, thanks
13:39:43  <Born_Acorn> Darkvater has delivered the first shot, peter1138, deliver the second!
13:39:47  <Celestar> what is wrong with Sirkoz?
13:39:57  <Born_Acorn> He fell down the stairs as a child.
13:40:03  <peter1138> Born_Acorn: well, i started it off, heh
13:40:08  <Celestar> pity
13:40:20  <Celestar> peter1138: I'm closing in on custombridgeheads :)
13:40:23  <peter1138> yay
13:40:27  <Born_Acorn> wooo
13:40:29  <hylje> wow
13:40:35  <Celestar> I've already ripped apart MP_TUNNELBRIDGE
13:40:39  <peter1138> is my old patch any use or not?
13:40:41  <Born_Acorn> <General Agreement sounds>
13:40:44  <Darkvater> peter1138: he started it off... here
13:40:52  <Celestar> peter1138: I haven't seen it, so I guess, no :P
13:40:54  <Darkvater> Good to see new revision, except tis' not so new after all, is it?
13:41:04  <peter1138> DrawRoadBits() & DrawTrackBits() were split off for the purpose of custom bridge heads
13:41:11  <peter1138> then tron staticized them, hehe
13:41:21  <Celestar> :P
13:41:31  <peter1138> Celestar: most of it's irrelevant now anyway
13:41:42  <Celestar> peter1138: MP_STREET_BRIDGE will have the same structure as MP_STREET, causing much less special casing for pathfinders as such
13:41:50  <Celestar> they do not need to know whether it is a bridge head or not
13:41:58  <peter1138> excellent
13:42:16  <peter1138> before, i had to contend with squeezing bits around
13:43:08  <Celestar> bah
13:43:25  <peter1138> hmm?
13:43:52  <Celestar> fischer@galadriel:[/nfs/home/fischer/openttd/branches/bridge]> svn diff | wc -l
13:43:52  <Celestar> 911
13:44:01  <Celestar> I haven't even done anything useful yet :P
13:44:07  <peter1138> heh
13:44:18  <hylje> bridgebranch is reborn? :p
13:44:23  <peter1138> 4505 2005-08-12 13:54 custombridgehead.diff
13:44:34  <peter1138> although i doubt that version worked
13:44:34  <Prof_Frink> 911 lines of comments?
13:44:39  <Darkvater> great...
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13:44:50  <Celestar> no, 911 lines to introduce 2 new tiletypes
13:44:52  <Darkvater> -rwxr--r-- 1 tfarago users 160100 2006-12-28 14:40 bla.diff
13:45:01  <Darkvater> once again my diffs are starting to get huge :s
13:45:12  <peter1138> Darkvater: feh, it's not sprlimit :D
13:45:22  <Darkvater> :)
13:45:30  <peter1138> my custom bridge heads patch is 500 lines
13:45:50  <peter1138> r3839
13:45:51  <peter1138> um
13:45:55  <peter1138> yeah
13:45:59  <hylje> :o
13:46:19  <Celestar>
13:46:22  <Darkvater> the only qualm I have with the spritelimit-split is the all-too-visible split between palette and sprite. Eg SetMouseCursor, what would I need with palette there?
13:46:22  <Celestar> need comments
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13:46:41  <Celestar> peter1138: well, I'm trying to do it as cleanly as possible :)
13:46:57  <RichK67> hi all
13:47:00  <peter1138> indeed
13:47:05  <Darkvater> hi RichK67
13:47:05  <peter1138> hello rich
13:47:14  <Celestar> Darkvater: peter1138 please tell me whatcha think :)
13:47:33  <Darkvater> oh reminds me...
13:47:52  <RichK67> ive got a quickie question about the behaviour of the "manage list" function - i dont know if its faulty, or just not doing what I expect
13:47:57  <Darkvater> peter1138: we needa add a flag to force loading savegame without appropiate newgrfs
13:48:16  <Darkvater> or even better, load it with newgrfs, just disabled so you can remove the missing ones from the savegame
13:48:20  <Darkvater> well or something
13:48:29  <Darkvater> yoda I very much so
13:48:32  <Maedhros> hi everyone
13:49:08  <Rubidium> Celestar: why do you make the distinction between rail & road bridges, but not between rail & road tunnels?
13:49:18  <RichK67> if i select a station serving a wood sawmill, and view its list of trains, i can then select replace vehicles from the Manage List drop down. however, any replacement i do is then global across my entire network, rather than limited to the list at that station... is this the way its meant to be?
13:49:20  <Darkvater> Celestar: 476 return owner; you forgot the check for rail type
13:49:25  <Darkvater> -			if ((IsTunnel(tile) && GetTunnelTransportType(tile) == TRANSPORT_RAIL) ||
13:49:25  <Darkvater> -					(IsBridge(tile) && GetBridgeTransportType(tile) == TRANSPORT_RAIL)) {
13:49:26  <Darkvater> -				return IsTileOwner(tile, owner);
13:49:29  <Darkvater> +		case MP_RAILWAY_BRIDGE:
13:49:30  <Darkvater> +			return IsTileOwner(tile, owner);
13:49:41  <Darkvater> should be getbridgetransporttype==rail no?
13:49:47  <hylje> RichK67: yes :|
13:49:51  <peter1138> RichK67: yeah, replace vehicles is global
13:50:05  <Celestar> Rubidium: because I don't care about tunnels for the time being :P
13:50:07  <Celestar> Celestar: checking
13:50:12  <RichK67> no way to limit the replace to just the selected list??
13:50:41  <Darkvater> no
13:50:43  <Celestar> Darkvater: a railways bridge normally has a railway on it :)
13:50:46  <RichK67> dang :(
13:50:56  <peter1138> could be possible
13:51:01  <Biff> RichK67: workaround suggestion; edit their orders (if they are shared) to go and stop at the same depot
13:51:03  <Darkvater> Celestar: so why the check for tunnel?
13:51:08  <peter1138> but it's not currently, and won't be in 0.5.0, heh
13:51:09  <Biff> then i think you can replace them there
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13:51:22  <Celestar> Darkvater: because I'm not distinguishing between road and rail tunnels (yet)
13:51:27  <Darkvater> we could do it by assigning replace-groups and replacing things by groups
13:51:46  <peter1138> what i'd like is something like simutrans' lines
13:51:55  <peter1138> and then allow replacements on that
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13:52:09  <peter1138> shared orders being almost but not quite the same
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13:52:32  <Celestar> maybe a replacement function for all vehicles that share orders?
13:52:34  <mosfet> hey all
13:52:39  <Celestar> hey mosfet
13:53:08  <RichK67> i wonder if the "groups" patch allows replacement limited to a single group - ive an inkling it does already
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13:55:21  <Darkvater> Celestar: smallmap_gui.c switch[space](GetTileType) {
13:57:17  <Darkvater> Celestar: perhaps split up DoConvertTunnelBridgeRail?
13:57:20  <Darkvater> or is that later on
13:57:27  <Darkvater> (rail_cmd.c)
13:57:29  <Celestar> Darkvater: I will split it
13:57:43  <peter1138> are you closing the bridge branch and starting a fresh one?
13:57:43  <Darkvater> water_cmd.c....way too long a line
13:57:47  <Celestar> Darkvater: standby
13:58:05  <Celestar> peter1138: the purpose being?
13:58:20  <peter1138> it's a separate feature
13:58:47  <RichK67> yup - looks like the groups patch can do it....   any chance of ppl taking a look at fast-tracking this one?  looks like bjarni has been involved along the way
13:58:49  <hylje> its a different branch with the same name?
13:59:06  <Celestar> peter1138: well yes, but it involves bridges :P
13:59:13  <Darkvater> RichK67: that's a bad sign ;p
13:59:13  <hylje> would be cool to have a treeview of all branches
13:59:14  <peter1138> RichK67: bjarni being involved isn't necessarily a good thing ;)
13:59:26  <Darkvater> peter1138: hehe :D
13:59:27  <Maedhros> Celestar: you pinged, at some point?
13:59:36  <peter1138> Celestar: but it also involves the map? so we should use the map branch, no?
13:59:37  <Celestar> Maedhros: yeah, yesterday...
13:59:43  <Celestar> peter1138: hmm ...
13:59:46  <Celestar> suggestions? :)
13:59:59  <Celestar> Maedhros: about whether to rename mextra into m6 in trunk or not.
14:00:05  <Celestar> but we more or less opted for not :P
14:00:13  <Celestar> peter1138: so how should we name the new branch?
14:00:15  <Celestar> :P
14:00:23  <Maedhros> Celestar: ok, cool :)
14:00:40  <Darkvater> Celestar: the code in pathfind.c is not the same. original code was if (tunnel) {this} else {that}. New code is
14:00:52  <Darkvater> if (tunnel) {this} if (bridge) {that}
14:01:06  <Darkvater> switcherize it?
14:01:48  <RichK67> changes from an "exclusive or" if, to an inclusive one...
14:02:22  <Rubidium> hmm, what charset does readme.txt have?
14:03:06  <Darkvater> Celestar: pathfind.c that big if thingie with istiletype() | |||| perhaps change that to gettiletype?
14:03:10  <RichK67> bbl
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14:03:14  <Naksu> meh
14:03:22  <Naksu> anyone know about the media player classic project?
14:03:25  <Naksu> has it been abandoned?
14:03:47  <Naksu> there hasnt been any writes to svn for half a year, and last release was in march
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14:05:54  <Darkvater> Celestar: same goes for other types where you changed an if/else (tunnel/bridge) into if, if, if
14:07:43  <Darkvater> br
14:07:44  <Darkvater> b
14:08:38  <peter1138> Naksu: wrong channel?
14:09:36  <Naksu> peter1138: no :D
14:13:42  <Rubidium> <- what do you think? I've removed the console document as it is hopelessly outdated and the wiki has more than enough information. I also removed the Mandrake stuff as that is over 2 years old and I hope nobody is using that version anymore :)
14:18:50  <Naksu> gah
14:19:10  <Naksu> apparently the author died
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14:46:22  <Celestar> back
14:46:36  <Celestar> Darkvater: this if if if stuff is temporary
14:47:46  <Celestar> but ok, would you like me to create a new branch now or not?
14:58:04  <KUDr> Celestar: can't you simply continue in 'bridge' branch?
14:58:14  <Celestar> I can
14:58:21  <Celestar> but peter1138 somehow did not like the idea?
14:58:42  <KUDr> ahh. Didn't see
14:59:02  <KUDr> i like is as the simplest way
14:59:10  <Celestar> ok
14:59:19  <Celestar> KUDr: do we want a signalling branch or not?
14:59:45  <KUDr> yes, but after 'scripting' branch will be made
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15:00:17  <Celestar> scripting branch?
15:00:27  <KUDr> yes squirrel
15:00:35  <Celestar> what is it exactly?
15:00:36  <KUDr> or something like this
15:00:39  <Celestar> and what do we want this for?
15:01:00  <KUDr> 1. newsig prototyping
15:01:05  <KUDr> 2. AIs
15:01:22  <Sacro> LUA?
15:01:26  <KUDr> 3. more complex commands like autosignals, etc
15:01:38  <KUDr> 4. maybe new GUI later
15:01:51  <KUDr> Sacro: squirrel
15:02:01  <KUDr> much better than LUA
15:02:10  <Sacro> KuDr: let me go research..
15:02:16  <KUDr> ok
15:02:37  <KUDr> 5. autopilot scripts
15:02:55  <KUDr> 6. many other things can be done with it
15:03:18  <KUDr> like scenario scripting
15:03:26  <Celestar> KUDr: how complex will the implementation be?
15:03:44  <KUDr> to trigger events based on how much you deliver somwhere or so
15:04:12  <Sacro> i can see implementation being quite complex in order to do all this... but well worth it
15:04:14  <Celestar> KUDr: I suggest implementing only as much as is needed for newsig :)
15:04:22  <KUDr> Celestar: i am now working on binding framework to have it very simple then
15:04:33  <Sacro> is the licence gpl compatible?
15:04:53  <KUDr> Celestar: we already have volunteers for AI scripts
15:05:14  <peter1138> . o O ( . . . gpmi . . . )
15:05:18  <KUDr> Sacro: they don't restrict the use anyhow
15:05:18  <Celestar> what about the licensing?
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15:05:28  <Noldo> btw, is there any new attempt planned on pbs?
15:05:47  <KUDr> they would appreciate some credits but it is not a must
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15:06:21  <hylje> kinda bsd?
15:06:23  <KUDr> Noldo: now we discuss it (newsig is the new way how PBS would work in the future)
15:06:25  <Sacro> KUDr: ahh, wikipeda says its zlib/libpng licence, and its compatible with gpl
15:06:50  <Sutherland> hello everyone any of u that know where i can the amigaOS4?
15:07:09  <Sacro> Sutherland: im more cuious as to where you could run it
15:07:17  <hylje> ppc
15:07:24  <Sutherland> on a pc ithing
15:07:28  <Sutherland> think
15:07:38  <Sacro> not an x86 based one
15:07:53  <KUDr> peter1138: the script binding should be smaller project than yapf was
15:08:06  <Sutherland> hmm what does it run on then?
15:08:12  <KUDr> and i expect its usage in several areas
15:08:26  <Sutherland> can i install it on my old amiga?
15:09:24  <Rubidium> Sutherland: this is not really the place to ask such questions I guess
15:09:56  <Sutherland> i know that but it could be that someone knew it
15:10:06  <Sacro> Sutherland: no you cant, its not m68k either, its ppc afaik
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15:10:30  <Sutherland> what is ppc?
15:10:41  <peter1138> powerpc
15:11:01  <Sutherland> never heard of it :S
15:11:10  <hylje> pre-intel macs are ppc
15:11:49  <Noldo> which script language are you planing?
15:12:24  <Sutherland> but if it is to a mac then it should work on my pc to i can install mac on it and it works but right now im running winblows
15:12:36  <peter1138> o_O
15:12:59  <MeusH> ahhh
15:13:03  <MeusH> burns
15:13:04  <MeusH> wait
15:13:43  <Sacro> Sutherland: MacOSX is available for PPC (old) and x86 (new),
15:13:49  <MeusH> my ups got overheated
15:13:53  <Sacro> AmigaOS4 is only ppc
15:13:59  <Rubidium> KUDr: can anybody tell you with certainty that it works for all the supported OSes/processor architectures of OpenTTD?
15:14:01  <MeusH> got to reboot
15:14:08  *** MeusH [] has quit [Quit: bye - quit]
15:14:26  <Celestar> from what I know a scripting language is just text files?
15:14:53  <Rubidium> yes, but if you embed it into OpenTTD it needs to be endian-aware
15:14:54  <Sutherland> okay thx sacro..
15:16:24  <Rubidium> especially as they only mention x86 compatible processors they have compiled it on in the README
15:16:44  <Celestar> this is suboptimal
15:18:56  <Sacro> its mac os compatible
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15:19:18  <Rubidium> Sacro: is that the PPC or x86 flavor of OSX?
15:19:26  <KUDr> Rubidium: no but authors declared it clearly i guess and if not, we can change it - it is really light weight
15:19:34  <Sacro> 10.4.2... doesnt state which
15:20:54  <KUDr> there is no reason why it would not run there - all OS specific calls we can reroute to our API
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15:21:51  <KUDr> and then the engine itself should work (except for some BE/LE issues that we can solve i think)
15:21:55  <peter1138> i shouldn't think there's any need for OS calls
15:22:03  <Celestar> well, give it a shot and see how it turns out
15:22:28  <Celestar> so I'm creating a custombridgeheads branch now or not? :P
15:22:33  <peter1138> yes
15:22:37  <peter1138> get everyone excited :D
15:22:42  <KUDr> peter1138: i am aware of some (executing script file, etc.)
15:22:43  <tokai> KUDr: what scripting engine your talking 'bout?
15:22:53  <KUDr> but they can be rerouted easily
15:23:07  <KUDr> tokai: squirrel
15:23:10  <tokai> Sutherland: there is an old unofficial openttd port for O54, but they never got it working right it seems.
15:23:18  <tokai> KUDr: hmm.. never heard of that one:)
15:23:29  <Celestar> peter1138: call it custombridgeheads or cbh? :P
15:23:51  <peter1138> no idea
15:23:58  <KUDr> tokai: much better then LUA (its probably LUA fork with different language)
15:24:02  <Celestar> Darkvater: suggestions? :P
15:24:19  <tokai> KUDr: ah.. well.. lua works on ppc.. i even made a quick port to morphos once
15:24:27  <tokai> if its a fork it shouldnt be a problem i guess
15:24:37  <Rubidium> tokai: please try to compile it :)
15:24:37  <Sutherland> okay tokai but i was just askin where to get amigaos4
15:24:49  <tokai> Sutherland: you can't get it
15:24:53  <KUDr> tokai: then it should work too - engine itself is very similar
15:25:05  <Rubidium> tokai:
15:25:11  <tokai> Sutherland: u only can get it when you're registered user of a certain hardware which is no longer available
15:25:20  <Celestar> we could make scripting optional :)
15:25:37  <Celestar> because the first application, newsignalling, is more like rapid prototyping
15:26:02  <Sutherland> tokai okay :(
15:27:03  <tokai> Sutherland: imho you're better off with winuae on a fast windows pc anyway ;)
15:27:06  <KUDr> Celestar: first i will make it controllable from console, then some autopilot scripts to test it and then AI interface
15:27:20  <Celestar> I'm eager to seeing the results
15:27:44  <KUDr> Celestar: but it will stay in branch so we can get experience with it and discuss its usage later
15:28:11  <KUDr> Celestar: results of what?
15:28:41  <Celestar> of your implementation :)
15:28:45  <KUDr> i can give you my old LUA experimental build
15:29:12  <Sutherland> :S thank u very much tokai
15:29:21  <KUDr> you can play with it (it had also background tasks implemented)
15:29:58  <Celestar> KUDr: I'll work on custombridgeheads for the time being :P
15:30:23  <KUDr> Celestar: and it is sure that squirrel works with ottd, but now i am trying to simplify the ottd API bindings so i can declare new bind on one line
15:30:39  <KUDr> Celestar:ok
15:31:01  <peter1138> i'll work on... whatever's left i have to do
15:31:23  <Celestar> peter1138: you can help me \o/
15:31:28  <tokai> ld: archive: ../lib/libsqstdlib.a has no table of contents, add one with ranlib(1) (can't load from it)  <- heh.. :)  but i guess it could build (i'm on OSX/PPC atm)
15:32:16  <Noldo> KUDr: btw, how's yapf?
15:32:46  <Sacro> tokai: winuae wont run os4, though pearpc might
15:32:49  <Celestar> yapf is working well.
15:32:50  <Celestar> :)
15:32:54  <KUDr> Noldo: please specify your question
15:33:39  <Noldo> KUDr: I like Celestar's answer :) but do you have any imidiate plans for it?
15:34:22  <tokai> Sacro: i didn't said that. I meant your better off with using winuae (and an older version of amigaos) than trying to get some obscure hardware just to run OS4 which can't run less software than a real amiga (i mean the ones from CBM era).
15:34:35  <Noldo> just noticed the testers needed thread on the forums
15:34:39  <tokai> -'t
15:34:42  <KUDr> Noldo: not for now - during newsig work there will be need to make some changes there
15:34:52  <Sacro> tokai: true, i like running Workbench 1.3 under winuae
15:35:11  <KUDr> Noldo: testers are still needed
15:35:18  <tokai> k, suirreel build under osx... so.. how to use it? :)
15:35:29  <KUDr> And dedicated YAPF thread too
15:35:53  <peter1138> guys
15:35:55  <tokai> has a odd makefile concept though (always deletes object files) :)
15:36:02  <peter1138> hmm
15:36:05  <KUDr> tokai: run sq with some argument (script file name)
15:36:08  * peter1138 ponders the spritecache pool
15:36:21  <peter1138> think it'll suck performance?
15:36:46  <tokai> carbuncle:~/Desktop/SQUIRREL2 tokai$ ./bin/sq samples/hello.nut
15:36:46  <tokai> Hello World!carbuncle:~/Desktop/SQUIRREL2 tokai$
15:36:49  <KUDr> tokai: simplest file could contain one line 'print("hello");'
15:36:58  <tokai> seems it is working on ppc
15:37:04  <Noldo> KUDr: have you documented the features and uses of signals that are supported?
15:37:04  <KUDr> well
15:37:10  <KUDr> thanks for good news
15:37:33  <KUDr> Noldo: what features you mean?
15:38:22  <KUDr> like load balancing?
15:38:49  <KUDr> it is all explained on forums
15:38:59  <Noldo> I remember we once talked about some effects of red-two-way as deadend and whether they are features or unplanned side efects
15:39:10  <Rubidium> tokai: it does never make .o files
15:39:26  <KUDr> Noldo: it has switch in config
15:39:53  <KUDr> so i would tell that it is not 'unplanned side effect'
15:40:28  <KUDr> look into your .cfg and you will see all - the names are self descriptive
15:40:32  <peter1138> well the main feature we want is that pbs-a-like thing ;)
15:40:55  * Sacro would like reversing signals
15:40:57  <peter1138> priorities can currently be 'emulated', heh
15:40:59  <KUDr> peter1138: yes, this is by design
15:40:59  <Gonozal_VIII> higher trainflow without stopping :-)
15:41:12  <Gonozal_VIII> stopping is baaaaad
15:41:44  <Gonozal_VIII> trains should never have to stop outside a station or depot
15:42:34  <peter1138> well at least the 1 second delay's gone now
15:46:55  <Celestar> hm
15:47:05  <Celestar> carbuncle ... that sounds like Final Fantasy
15:50:58  <Gonozal_VIII> isn't that the guy in garfield?
15:53:17  <Gonozal_VIII> ah.. arbuckle
15:54:20  *** MeusH [] has joined #openttd
15:54:27  <MeusH> hey
15:54:29  <SpComb> Logs:
15:54:29  <MeusH> !logs
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16:04:52  <Celestar> guys
16:05:04  <peter1138> Rubidium: ping?
16:05:10  <Celestar> what about compiling a list of what has been in MiniIN and see what we can port to trunk/ ?
16:05:12  <Rubidium> peter1138: pong!
16:05:42  <peter1138> what happened to clearing the grfconfig list within resetgrfconfig?
16:05:50  <Rubidium> Celestar: porting the patches to trunk will be a hell
16:06:01  <Celestar> Rubidium: well, not all :)
16:06:01  <Rubidium> huh?
16:06:02  <Athorium> hi
16:06:13  <Celestar> Rubidium: but some that are 1) stable 2) worth the effort :)
16:06:41  <Sacro> Celestar: that'd be amazing
16:06:47  <Celestar> Sacro: I need a list ...
16:06:52  <Sacro> Celestar: its on svn
16:07:04  * Sacro digs
16:07:14  <hylje> at least diagonal crossings
16:07:25  <Celestar> ah
16:07:40  * Sacro does an svn co
16:07:49  <peter1138> ah
16:07:52  <peter1138> Rubidium: sorry
16:07:55  <peter1138> Darkvater: ping? :P
16:08:18  <Sacro> i'd like to see diagonal crossings moved
16:08:22  <Sacro> and realistic physics
16:08:31  <Celestar> Sacro: what do they do?
16:09:00  <blathijs> "moved" ?
16:09:01  <Sacro> diagonal crossings? allows you to have lines crossing like + rather than like x
16:09:02  <Rubidium> most patches in MiniIN are influenced by subsidiaries & PBS
16:09:21  <Rubidium> the diagonal crossings is one of them
16:09:33  <Celestar> please elaborate on that feature?
16:09:37  <hylje> diagonal crossing allows building diagonal rail on roads
16:09:43  <Celestar> ah
16:09:46  <Celestar> thanks
16:09:50  <Sacro> Celestar: svn://
16:09:54  <Celestar> thanks
16:09:56  <Maedhros> diagonal crossings was written against trunk, and ported to miniin afterwards
16:10:22  <Celestar> is there any patch left?
16:10:22  <Athorium> what is TBH?
16:10:25  <Celestar> some diff ?
16:10:26  <Sacro> ooh, signal autocomplete
16:10:34  <Maedhros> i can probably update it a bit now there's more space in the map array :)
16:10:36  <hylje> signal autocomplete is bugggyyyy
16:10:56  <Sacro> Celestar: all the patches should be on the forums
16:11:13  <Rubidium> Maedhros: yes, but the miniin patch is 'newer' than the trunk patch, as there is a MiniIN patch done on diagonal crossings months after the last update of the trunk diff at the forum
16:11:25  <CIA-1> celestar * r7593 /branches/custombridgeheads/: [cbh] - Created a branch to develop custombridgeheads.
16:11:25  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7594 /trunk/newgrf_config.c: -Fix (r7522): GRF config list wasn't cleared when no GRFs should be used.
16:11:34  <Sacro> ooh, upgrade bridges in situ
16:11:55  <Maedhros> Rubidium: ah. well, i've got the patch against trunk somewhere, but probably not on this computer...
16:12:04  <Celestar> what is upgrade bridge in situ?
16:12:13  <Athorium> someone can say me what is TBH?
16:12:17  <Rubidium> upgrade the bridge without destroying it
16:12:22  <Maedhros> Athorium: to be honest
16:12:23  <peter1138> to be honest
16:12:28  <Athorium> ok, thx
16:12:41  <Celestar> Rubidium: ok that is a feature that should port easily to trunk, right?
16:12:48  * Rubidium wanted to say "to be honest, I don't know"
16:13:05  <Rubidium> if Maedhros can update his patch, it is fairly easy
16:13:16  <glx> Rubidium: the patch in MiniIN if I remember was for PBS
16:13:28  <Celestar> Maedhros: do you have any diff about those diagonal-level-crossing?S
16:13:39  <Rubidium> I looked at it this afternoon and it was a general cleanup-diagonal-level-crossings patch
16:13:55  <Athorium> -Feature: Add support for tractive effort to 'realistic' acceleration.
16:13:57  <Athorium> what is this?
16:14:05  <Maedhros> Celestar: here's the latest forum patch:
16:14:14  <Maedhros> i'll have to dig up the newer one
16:14:24  <Celestar> Maedhros: ok I'll have a look through it, k?
16:14:25  <hylje> Athorium: newgrf sets such as ukrs provide a tractive effort value for trains
16:14:30  <Sacro> Athorium: torque
16:14:41  <Maedhros> Celestar: fine :)
16:14:43  <Athorium> better acceleration?
16:14:52  <Athorium> well, "more realistic"?
16:14:59  <hylje> yeah
16:15:02  <Sacro> yes, more realistic
16:15:10  <Athorium> ok, cool ^_^
16:15:14  <hylje> high HP pax trains arent useful when pulling heavy cargo
16:15:25  <Sacro> hylje: high HP are
16:15:34  <hylje> with little torque i doubt
16:15:40  <Sacro> yeah... true
16:16:12  <Celestar> wow this is a hugeass patch
16:16:14  <Rubidium> Celestar: r6401 is the cleanup patch I was talking about
16:16:36  <Celestar> ok
16:16:50  <Maedhros> the latest version i've got is for r6445
16:17:03  <peter1138> Sacro: did you know the formulas are the same?
16:17:05  <Celestar> Maedhros: before we can do anything about the level crossing, we should do some cleanup for the level crossings.
16:17:06  <peter1138> just different units
16:17:11  <Sacro> peter1138: oh?
16:17:12  <peter1138> (oh, and the airdrag, heh)
16:17:37  * Sacro sits back and watches Japanese Bikini Rodeo Pie Fighting
16:18:17  <orudge> Hm, lovely, there's a server at that messes up the page layout
16:18:20  <orudge> for me on Safari anyway
16:18:40  <Sacro> hmm, firefox slips long names under the next coloum
16:19:09  <hylje> orudge: opera is fine
16:19:22  <Celestar> KUDr: do you store the Station Rectangles in the savegame?
16:19:45  <glx> the comment says no
16:19:51  <Sacro> :o
16:19:59  <Celestar> ok
16:20:47  <Celestar> Maedhros: we should swap the road and rail owner of level crossings and move the Railtype to the same place MP_RAILWAY has it
16:21:22  <Maedhros> Celestar: sounds sensible
16:21:35  <Maedhros> newer patch is here, btw:
16:22:16  <Celestar> can anyone get me screenshots of the diagonal crossings?
16:22:39  <Rubidium> Celestar: it is in the forum thread
16:22:49  <Rubidium> just go to page 3 or 4
16:22:49  <Maedhros>
16:22:53  <Celestar> Rubidium: ok
16:23:16  <Celestar> cool
16:23:20  <Maedhros> there are fences in the newer patch which i don't really like any more, so i'll probably remove them again soon
16:23:27  <Celestar> Maedhros: no worries :P
16:23:55  <Celestar> hm.
16:24:00  <Celestar> idea:
16:25:10  <Celestar> for MP_STREET, we have the road bits in m6, 2-5, for MP_RAILWAY we have them in m5 0-5. so we can have a joint type MP_WHATEVER which 1) has both and 2) can then be simple used to implement trams.
16:25:16  <Celestar> comments?
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16:25:47  <hylje> could be good
16:25:55  <Celestar> is easy to implement actually.
16:26:07  <hylje> but implement diagonal crossings too
16:26:14  <Sacro> Celestar: that sounds good
16:26:15  <Celestar> well it is the same.
16:27:31  <Rubidium> trams need to be implemented differently than rails
16:27:35  <hylje> how feasible are broader roads?
16:27:38  <Celestar> Rubidium: why?
16:27:40  <Celestar> KUDr: ping
16:28:10  <Rubidium> because you can have tram and road on the same tile with different 'roadmasks'
16:28:30  <Celestar> well, with the implementation I suggested up there, you could have that.
16:29:05  <Celestar> you can have every possible combination
16:29:24  <Rubidium> what about a rail+tram+road crossing?
16:29:36  <peter1138> do we want ttdp style trams? heh
16:29:39  <Celestar> Rubidium: let's not get too carried away
16:29:39  <blathijs> Tram?
16:29:46  <Celestar> peter1138: what are ttdp-style trams?
16:29:48  <Celestar> :P
16:30:04  <peter1138> Celestar: road vehicles restricted to a specific road type, heh
16:30:04  <Celestar> 13:03 <Darkvater> gotta go, bb in 30
16:30:13  <Rubidium> Celestar: basically another roadtype
16:30:18  * Celestar looks at watch
16:30:43  * blathijs gets confuzzled :-)
16:30:43  <CIA-1> maedhros * r7595 /branches/newhouses/newgrf_house.c: [NewHouses] -Cleanup: Make the building count code more readable, and more correct...
16:30:45  <Celestar> peter1138: Rubidium: honestly, I'd like to have road implemented as a type of rail.
16:30:53  <peter1138> road or trams?
16:30:57  <Celestar> road
16:30:59  <peter1138> hmm
16:31:15  <hylje> then transparency and blending to make arbitary crossings
16:31:17  <blathijs> Celestar: I think that had issues as well :-)
16:31:22  <Celestar> it has
16:31:28  <Celestar> but is there anything wrong with my idea up there?
16:31:33  <Rubidium> Celestar: hmm, that might be possible :)
16:31:44  <blathijs> Celestar: In basis, it would be a useful generalization
16:32:10  <blathijs> Celestar: Please make it into in a proposal :-)
16:32:13  <Celestar> blathijs: what is the difference between the two? basically nothing, except that you can go from an X track to Y track.
16:32:30  <blathijs> You can have half x and y tracks
16:32:34  <blathijs> which is sorta nasty
16:32:42  <Rubidium> though if you have a -| junction, it would becomes more like a <| rail junction
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16:33:00  <Celestar> blathijs: then enable half x and y railtracks as well. (only in the code)
16:33:17  <Celestar> have 8 trackbits
16:33:20  <Rubidium> half x & y tracks can be used in the depots and in case of newstation buffers :)
16:33:21  <blathijs> Celestar: ah yes, we still have 2 track spots left
16:33:32  <blathijs> Celestar: or 4 trackdirs really
16:33:41  <Celestar> and some data in RailTypeInfo what is reachable from where.
16:33:51  *** glx [] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by glx|away))]
16:33:53  <Celestar> wait
16:34:01  *** glx|away is now known as glx
16:34:09  <blathijs> I tink I concluded it to be feasible when I considered it for newmap back then
16:34:09  <Celestar> the Rail <-> Road unification kills the crossing idea.
16:34:20  * Celestar drops it for the time being
16:34:21  <blathijs> kills?
16:34:26  <blathijs> It just unifies
16:34:49  <Rubidium> Celestar: there will be two free bytes for roads when newhouses hits trunk
16:34:59  <hylje> it needs a different implementation of crossings
16:34:59  <Celestar> Rubidium: 1.5
16:35:13  <Celestar> KUDr: broke something
16:35:20  <Celestar> openttd: station_cmd.c:3185: StationRect_BeforeAddTile: Assertion `!exec' failed.
16:35:29  <Rubidium> hmm
16:35:41  <Celestar> it happens when you raise the savegame revision
16:36:07  <blathijs> Celestar: You will be able to support maglev/rails crossings as well if unification of rail/road works
16:36:16  <blathijs> Celestar: In the code, anyway
16:36:35  <Celestar> blathijs: but you'll need 16 trackbits in the code
16:36:38  <blathijs> Celestar: Though I'm afraid that'd require more bits
16:36:43  <Celestar> instead of 8
16:36:49  <Celestar> which is ok by me ... but ... :P
16:36:49  <blathijs> probably
16:36:55  <blathijs> but, really gotta go now
16:36:58  <blathijs> Hold the thought!
16:37:19  <Celestar> PLUS we need a second owner
16:37:40  <Rubidium> true
16:37:49  <Celestar> well upper byte of m2 is not used ...
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16:45:40  <KUDr> Celestar: what branch, what you just did with station and what station type
16:46:37  <KUDr> adding some roadstop to existing station?
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16:53:51  <Celestar> KUDr: 1) raise savegame revision in trunk, 2) compile, 3) load old savegame, 4) save game, 5) load new savegame
16:54:22  <KUDr> Celestar: i am confused
16:54:56  <KUDr> it should have nothing to do with the savegame revision
16:55:37  <KUDr> can you send me the savegame?
16:55:58  <Celestar> sure
16:56:17  <Celestar> (but you need to raise the revision?)
16:56:40  <KUDr> ok
16:56:43  <peter1138> strange, because it's not savegame version dependent...
16:56:54  <Celestar> yeah
16:57:09  <Celestar> just a sec
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16:57:41  <KUDr> SAVEGAME_VERSION = 43 ?
16:57:57  <Celestar>
16:58:00  <Celestar> yeah
17:00:16  <KUDr> running
17:00:21  <KUDr> how long?
17:00:55  <Celestar> it crashes here
17:00:59  <Celestar> upon load
17:01:09  <Celestar> ER
17:01:11  <Celestar> wrong game :S
17:01:12  <Celestar> sorry
17:01:23  <KUDr> here not
17:01:27  <Celestar> please re-download
17:01:29  <KUDr> aha
17:02:54  <KUDr> ok, assert
17:03:08  <KUDr> at least it is reproduced
17:03:44  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7596 /trunk/strings.c: -Codechange: Always display tractive effort in kN.
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17:04:24  <KUDr> Hehe: max station spread is 12, but one station has 13
17:04:53  <peter1138> station spread has been reduced mid game?
17:04:56  <Celestar> KUDr: it shouldn't crash :P
17:04:59  <peter1138> or some other bug
17:05:00  <Celestar> peter1138: possibly
17:05:05  <Celestar> likely
17:05:06  <peter1138> i think it should ignore station spread on load :)
17:05:15  <peter1138> or...
17:05:16  <peter1138> hmm
17:05:32  <KUDr> Celestar: it doesn crash. It shows assert only because something is wrong :)
17:05:50  <Celestar> I just named the game crash.sav :P
17:05:51  <peter1138> unfortunately that case can happen quite easily
17:06:10  * peter1138 ponders the dbsetxl issue some more
17:06:10  <KUDr> peter1138: yes, it should, but do we have some global var that i can check?
17:06:22  <peter1138> global?
17:06:25  <peter1138> why?
17:06:34  <KUDr> to see that we are in load
17:06:44  <KUDr> and then ignore the rule
17:06:50  <peter1138> you can just use a parameter that is set in the AfterLoadStations() function
17:07:00  <KUDr> huh
17:07:10  <KUDr> it is too much overhead
17:07:26  <KUDr> there must be some var about the game state
17:12:23  <Noldo> It must be quite a long time since I played openttd last time
17:14:12  <Celestar> why?
17:15:28  <Sacro> hmm, del doesnt work when you have the console open
17:16:12  <Noldo> I really don't know what I have been doing the last six months
17:16:36  <Noldo> I haven't studied or played openttd
17:17:18  <MeusH> Sacro: because it's used to delete chars from console? :)
17:17:29  <glx> Sacro: and it's logical :)
17:17:29  <MeusH> or you mean "the other del"?
17:17:30  <Sacro> MeusH: yes
17:17:52  <Sacro> MeusH: i mean del, as opposed to backspace
17:18:36  <MeusH> yeah I know, but it was also possible that the del that erases chars is not working. hopefully the not working one is the del that closes window
17:18:40  <MeusH> nevermind
17:18:49  <stillunknown> has ride through maintenance ever been considered?
17:18:54  <Sacro> stillunknown: eys
17:18:56  <Sacro> i want it
17:19:32  <MeusH> do you know some IRC channel aimed at midlet developement? Like java applications for mobile phones?
17:20:56  <stillunknown> anyone know if it's possible to hack a maintenance flag into a waypoint, or if that's likely not to work?
17:21:28  *** gass [~any@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:21:47  * Celestar ponders how you maintain an ICE3 at 330km/h while there are 600 passengers on board.
17:21:48  <MeusH> Bjarni had an idea of multi-tile depots to convert between many track types
17:22:00  <MeusH> these would be similiar to stations
17:22:02  <CIA-1> celestar * r7597 /branches/custombridgeheads/ (23 files in 3 dirs): [cbh] - Codechange: Remove MP_TUNNELBRIDGE and introduce three new TileTypes: MP_TUNNEL, MP_STREET_BRIDGE, MP_RAILWAY_BRIDGE
17:22:12  <MeusH> but would actually be depots
17:22:24  <MeusH> then you could build terminal or ro-ro depots
17:23:22  <MeusH> Celestar, I don't understand why there is just one MP_TUNNEL, but BRIDGEs are separated to railway and road?
17:23:37  <Noldo> how's the ship pathfinding?
17:24:00  <MeusH> Noldo, I'm afraid there's been no progress
17:24:04  <Celestar> MeusH: because I'm just working on bridges :P
17:24:36  <Darkvater> Rubidium: doc-update looks good
17:24:46  <Celestar> doc-update where?
17:24:55  <MeusH> kk
17:25:15  <stillunknown> anyone who has an idea what would happen if a waypoint would be flagged as depot, does that carry any implicit consequences?
17:25:58  <Athorium> hi
17:26:04  <stillunknown> like hardcoded properties or beheaviour?
17:26:10  <MeusH> stillunknown, it would be easier to mark train as serviced by visiting certain waypoints
17:26:26  <MeusH> but making waypoint a depot doesn't seem to be a good idea
17:26:28  <MeusH> hello Athorium
17:26:34  <Athorium> hey, hi  MeusH
17:26:58  <stillunknown> MeusH: good point (it's been a while since i've looked at ottd sourcecode :-) )
17:27:04  <Athorium> can someone say me that is IMO?
17:27:30  <stillunknown> what is?
17:27:35  <Athorium> yes
17:27:47  <Athorium> sorry... ^^¡
17:27:57  <Darkvater> peter1138: pong?
17:28:08  <Athorium> ping
17:28:26  <MeusH> IMO?
17:28:28  <MeusH> EMO?
17:28:32  <Wolf01> imo: in my opinion
17:28:33  <MeusH> imo = emo
17:28:35  <MeusH> no
17:28:40  <MeusH> imo = in my opinion
17:28:40  <MeusH> lol
17:28:44  <MeusH> die emo die
17:29:08  <Sacro> :O ALL MINIIN PATCHES
17:29:11  <Noldo> emo a finnish word for an animal mother
17:29:26  <Athorium> ok, thx
17:30:15  <CIA-1> celestar * r7598 /branches/custombridgeheads/ (5 files): [cbh] - Codechange: Remove the functions IsTunnel() and IsBridge() as they are no longer needed.
17:30:27  <MeusH> 445 images of emo at urban dictionary
17:30:29  <MeusH> :)
17:31:06  <Athorium> lol?
17:31:23  <MeusH> this is so nice
17:31:35  <Sacro> roffle
17:32:57  <Athorium> :S
17:33:22  <stillunknown> if i were to TRY to make a servicing waypoint, is there a decent chance this could go into the trunk?
17:34:09  <Gonozal_VIII> would be much the same as to disable breakdowns
17:34:14  <Celestar> if a train doesn't stop when being serviced, I see litte chance
17:34:38  <stillunknown> i mean like a busstop on the street
17:34:48  <stillunknown> stopping, but ride through
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17:34:55  <Celestar> if it STOPS, ok. if it doesn't, not ok
17:34:58  <Gonozal_VIII> ah...
17:35:08  <Gonozal_VIII> yes, that would be cool
17:35:09  <Wolf01> make open depots where you see the train being built instead... like stations
17:35:20  <Celestar> help coding :S
17:36:23  <Celestar> ok what the correct order to do things? svn cp tunnelbridge_cmd.c bridge_cmd.c; svn mv tunnelbridge_cmd.c tunnel_cmd.c or first move then copy, or two seperate commits?
17:36:40  <Gonozal_VIII> maybe those depots longer with max train length inside = depot length
17:37:29  <Gonozal_VIII> more realistic withoud depot pocket dimension things..
17:37:31  <glx> Celestar: svn mv is enough
17:37:33  <Gonozal_VIII> -d+t
17:37:34  <Darkvater> Celestar: svn rename?
17:37:43  <Celestar> glx: Darkvater I need to split the file
17:37:59  <Celestar> tunnelbridge_cmd.c => tunnel_cmd.c + bridge_cmd.c
17:38:11  <Darkvater> split file, delete original and commit
17:38:19  <Celestar> so cp, cp, del ?
17:38:33  <Darkvater> well cp, mv, del
17:38:42  <Celestar> if you mv you don't need to del :P
17:38:44  <Wolf01> i like more to be able to build a train limited in width, so i can build a depot long 5 tiles and a station of 5 tiles, and i'm sure that a train built in that depot fit into the station
17:38:44  <Darkvater> eh I mean
17:38:47  <Darkvater> cp, rename
17:38:48  <Darkvater> :P
17:38:56  <Celestar> rename and move is the same thing :P
17:39:12  <Darkvater> it's not the same thing
17:39:22  <Celestar> fischer@galadriel:[/nfs/home/fischer/openttd/branches/custombridgeheads]> svn help rename
17:39:25  <Celestar> move (mv, rename, ren): Move and/or rename something in working copy or repository.
17:39:26  <Darkvater> rename only changes file name, mv can change location
17:39:34  <Celestar>  Note:  this subcommand is equivalent to a 'copy' and 'delete'.
17:39:57  <Celestar> so I copy copy del :)
17:39:58  <Celestar> thanks
17:40:03  <Celestar> cu tomorrow, going home
17:40:06  <glx> move (mv, rename, ren) <-- it's the same
17:40:12  <stillunknown> the reason a train stops at a station, is that because of a station property or because of a train property?
17:40:12  <Darkvater> cp, mv
17:40:33  <Celestar> stillunknown: a train doesn't stop at every station, right?
17:40:47  <Celestar> stillunknown: the TrainController decides whether or not to stop
17:40:53  <Celestar> doesn't it?
17:40:55  <glx> Celestar: depends of non-stop handling patch
17:41:02  <Celestar> stupid non-stop :S
17:41:15  <Celestar> non-stop means non-stop ... that is means no stop in between
17:41:59  <Celestar> I gotta go anyway
17:42:33  <Wolf01> cya
17:44:23  <peter1138> that's how it works
17:44:46  <MeusH> cya Wolf01
17:45:01  <peter1138> unless you have the ttdpatch compatible handling on
17:45:05  <Wolf01> i was greeting Celestar
17:45:10  <peter1138> then non-stop means go here, but don't stop
17:45:15  <peter1138> which is of course dumb
17:45:37  <CIA-1> KUDr * r7599 /trunk/station_cmd.c: -Fix: (r7585, r7590) assert on load game that has some station with bigger spread-out than _patches.station_spread value (Celestar)
17:45:53  <peter1138> Darkvater: pingpong... you broke summat but i fixed it ;)
17:48:21  <Wolf01> mmmmm i want to figure out why my transparency options patch give that error on the openttd.cfg
17:49:31  <Darkvater> whohoo, peter1138 what'd I break?
17:49:58  <glx> Wolf01: where is the patch?
17:50:14  <Wolf01> flipspray
17:50:36  <Wolf01>
17:52:37  <Darkvater> peter1138: you talked about some dbsetxl issue earlier? Was this it ?
17:52:46  <peter1138> yes
17:52:58  <peter1138> one solution is to use a substitute sprite
17:53:13  <Darkvater> why does it happen?
17:53:24  <peter1138>
17:53:32  <peter1138> top one is the problem
17:53:36  <glx> Wolf01: you removed a newline in settings.c :)
17:53:37  <peter1138> bottom one just looks odd
17:53:41  <Wolf01> mmm i think i made a little error when i synced the patch
17:53:52  <Wolf01> but is not that the problem
17:54:15  <Gonozal_VIII> that's not a bug, the train is not complete
17:54:31  <peter1138> Gonozal_VIII: yes
17:54:46  <Wolf01> it gave the same error also before the sync
17:54:55  <peter1138> Gonozal_VIII: the bug is that dbsetxl doesn't define sprites for the other angles
17:55:02  <peter1138> becuase you're not supposed to use it like that
17:55:06  <peter1138> but it doesn't *stop* you using it like that
17:55:10  <Darkvater> hmm it's trailing questionmarks ;p
17:55:17  <Gonozal_VIII> ah
17:55:23  <peter1138> Darkvater: that's the substitute sprite :)
17:55:34  <peter1138> without the substitute, it crashes with an error
17:55:43  <peter1138> (invalid sprite)
17:55:47  <peter1138> which is correct
17:55:49  <Darkvater> hmm wait
17:55:50  <peter1138> but annoying
17:55:56  <Darkvater> you're not even supposed to be start that engine
17:56:00  <Darkvater> cause it needs more wagons
17:56:08  <peter1138> no, you're not supposed to, but dbsetxl doesn't enforce it
17:56:18  <hylje> :D
17:56:21  <peter1138> and in this case, it was an autoreplace from another engine type
17:56:29  <peter1138> still, i hate dbsetxl anyway ;p
17:56:34  <Darkvater> I thought it did through callbacks
17:56:44  <peter1138> it doesn't use it
17:56:49  <peter1138> well, it does, but not always
17:57:04  <Gonozal_VIII> ok with autoreplace this could be a problem
17:57:30  <Darkvater> autoreplace will screw it up most probably though no matter what dbsetxl says
17:57:41  <peter1138> not really
17:57:51  <peter1138> if it used the callback, the train would be stuck in a depot instead
17:57:55  <peter1138> not ideal, but it wouldn't crash
18:01:25  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7600 /trunk/ (6 files in 2 dirs):
18:01:25  <CIA-1> -Remove: out-dated documentation about console and Mandrake Readme.
18:01:25  <CIA-1> -Change: make readme.txt UTF-8 instead of ISO 8859-15.
18:01:25  <CIA-1> -Change: some indenting, aligning and other small textual changes.
18:01:25  <CIA-1> -Add: some comments about port forwarding and NewGRF over the net..
18:04:00  <peter1138> i could always add some "quirks mode" support...
18:04:56  <peter1138> if grf == dbsetxl and sprite == more or stop don't leave depot
18:05:49  <MeusH> if about_to_crash { don't_leave_depot }
18:05:52  <peter1138> hehe
18:06:13  <MeusH> that'd be more versatile
18:06:19  <peter1138> this sprite substitute thing will also fix that csd (iirc) set that uses multihead engines for steamers...
18:06:23  <MeusH> in case of more nazi sets
18:07:08  <Darkvater> hmm weren't the wagons invisible in ttdp?
18:07:12  <peter1138> yes
18:07:31  <glx> Wolf01: I found it :)
18:07:37  <Wolf01> yes? where?
18:07:55  <MeusH> what does csd stand for?
18:07:58  <MeusH> canadian...?
18:08:03  <Darkvater> czech
18:08:07  <Darkvater> no?
18:08:09  <peter1138> yeah
18:08:20  <glx> Wolf01: in settings.c you change WAYPOINTS into DO_WAYPOINTS
18:08:22  <peter1138> or "Coded Strangely, Duh"
18:08:29  <Wolf01> oh
18:08:35  <glx> so it doesn't recognise WAYPOINTS :)
18:09:26  <Wolf01> both in constants and strings?
18:09:33  <glx> only in string
18:09:56  <Darkvater> hmm, why do I get so much spam?
18:11:33  <Wolf01> how much chance have this patch to be merged in trunk?
18:12:17  <glx> Wolf01: also you can remove the DO_ in strings for your additions :)
18:12:20  <stillunknown> can anyone give a hint when/where "a station sets" it's railtype?
18:13:18  <peter1138> station_cmd.c:1103
18:13:34  * Maedhros attempts to work out a better way of arranging the map array for railways
18:14:26  <Wolf01> i was thinking about this... why i put the strings there? transparency options shouldn't be saved in the cfg, as they are reset every time you run the game
18:15:28  <glx> they are?
18:15:39  <Wolf01> them
18:15:39  <Rubidium> who would have found: ?
18:16:25  <Darkvater> they are not reset
18:17:16  <peter1138> well, makes a change from Sacro's "every other tile" signalling
18:17:32  * Sacro is upset by that insult
18:17:51  <peter1138> truth hurts, huh?
18:18:14  <Biff> "every other tile"-signaling?
18:18:18  <Sacro> indeed it does
18:18:20  <Darkvater> well he was low on money
18:18:21  <Darkvater> ;)
18:18:33  <peter1138> Biff: yes... i.e. a signal every other tile
18:18:42  <peter1138> could be worse, of course
18:18:54  <peter1138> a signal every tile :/
18:19:03  <Biff> so every other tile always had a signal?
18:19:24  <Biff> in tunnels/bridges?
18:19:47  <peter1138> well except them, obviously
18:19:56  <Biff> oh
18:20:04  <Biff> i thought it was something like my idea :p
18:20:21  <Biff> just assume all brigdes and tunnels have signals
18:20:21  <Biff> :P
18:20:30  <peter1138> really
18:20:34  <peter1138> that works well
18:20:39  <peter1138> where do you store the signal state?
18:21:06  <Biff> i dunno, it was just a idea i got, i'm not very familiar with the code yet
18:21:20  * orudge ponders updating his ancient DOS port of OpenTTD, for a laugh
18:21:29  <Biff> so i dont even know if its possible
18:21:39  <Darkvater> fckin....
18:21:46  <Gonozal_VIII> signal default red could be useful
18:22:08  <Darkvater> ok what shall I do? Variadic macros don't work on VS2003 and I can't think of any way to make it work
18:22:27  <orudge> What are they used for?
18:22:44  <Darkvater> debug function
18:23:08  *** helb [~helb@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:23:27  <MeusH> what? windows and debugging? you must be joking :p
18:23:29  <orudge> Hmm, VS2005 executables don't work on Win9x, IIRC.
18:23:36  <orudge> well, so I've heard
18:23:37  <Darkvater> I know
18:23:39  <orudge> not tried that one myself.
18:23:45  <Darkvater> IsDebuggerPresent is missing
18:23:51  <Darkvater> fucking MS doing this on purpose
18:23:56  <Darkvater> bunch of assholes
18:24:05  <Wolf01> [19:16:33] <Darkvater> they are not reset
18:24:05  <Wolf01> if i close the game, look in the openttd.cfg they are, if i start the game and look in the openttd.cfg they aren't anymore
18:24:22  <Darkvater> I tried the workaround posted for this somewhere on the net but that didn't work
18:24:22  <glx> Wolf01: indeed they are not reset if you run the game with -g
18:24:42  <glx> they are reset for intro game
18:24:43  <hylje> that signal bug is quite obscure
18:24:44  <Darkvater> Wolf01: well I don't know what you are doing, but those changes persist between restarts, at least in openttd without modifications
18:25:29  <glx> Darkvater: not the transparent buildings one (it's removed for intro game)
18:25:34  <Wolf01> ok, if it works so, this bug seem to be solved (i also missed the DO_TRANS_SIGN)
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18:29:56  <peter1138> Darkvater:
18:30:51  <Darkvater> lol
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18:31:21  <Rubidium> peter1138: please use SPR_IMG_QUERY instead of 723 :)
18:31:33  <peter1138> yeah
18:32:07  <peter1138> problem is
18:32:19  <stillunknown> 0xC0 | 0x04 = 0xC4?
18:32:21  <peter1138> if someone's fucked around with their files, it'll still work :/
18:32:38  <Sacro> stillunknown: yes
18:32:39  <peter1138> although we have the md5 sum checks on stuff now
18:34:12  <Darkvater> hmm I think  I'll just have to revert the debug() changes :(
18:34:27  * Darkvater pukes at microsoft
18:34:42  <peter1138> didn't truelight have the same problem with gpmi...
18:34:43  <Darkvater> vs2003 sucks, vs2005 doesn't run on win95 and mingw can't compile unicode
18:34:44  <Darkvater> yaay
18:35:34  <Darkvater> donnu
18:35:38  <stillunknown> who would want to run on win95?
18:35:41  <glx> peter1138: yes we had the same problem :)
18:35:57  <Darkvater> so eh, was it solved?
18:35:57  <Gonozal_VIII> are there still people out there using win95?
18:36:01  *** TinoM [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:36:27  <glx> Gonozal_VIII: they are still win98 users
18:36:36  <Prof_Frink> stillunknown: Worse.
18:36:56  <Prof_Frink> There's a computer over there <-- that's scaring /Me/.
18:38:05  <Rubidium> Darkvater: what about obsoleting Win9x after 0.5?
18:38:15  <stillunknown> Prof_Frink: huh?
18:38:58  <peter1138> Darkvater: drop support?
18:38:58  *** PandaMojo [] has quit [Quit: PandaMojo]
18:38:58  <Darkvater> Rubidium: why? OpenTTD works perfectly on win95, it's just 1 function. I wouldn't find it too fair to drop support just for that
18:39:09  <peter1138> it's like, 11 years old :D
18:39:13  <peter1138> heh
18:39:36  <peter1138> #define DEBUG //
18:40:16  <Darkvater> yes I thought of that
18:40:40  <Rubidium> or implement it as a function for MSVC2k3?
18:40:44  <Darkvater> the problem is that the releases are done with VS2003 so you would not have debugging messages in an official release
18:40:58  <Darkvater> we could although release 2 different win32 binaries?
18:41:12  <glx> Darkvater: and (gpmi_event)
18:41:22  <Darkvater> Rubidium: I tried, couldn't get it to work. The problem is that the debug-names, eg 'ai', etc are not strings, nor variables
18:41:28  <glx> but you won't want it in openttd :)
18:41:40  <peter1138> Darkvater: turn the debug names into an enum constant?
18:41:47  <Prof_Frink> stillunknown: Winders Me.
18:42:05  <peter1138> then the debug thingy can be an array
18:42:35  <peter1138> it'll be slower, of course
18:43:04  <Darkvater> glx: ok, I'm not using that
18:43:22  <Darkvater> peter1138: :O
18:43:25  <Darkvater> you're a genius
18:43:29  <Darkvater> :)
18:43:50  <Darkvater> then I'll just plug into the debug_level array, lookup level and print
18:44:23  <FlashFF> reading the above... would you want debug messages in a release build?
18:44:34  <MeusH> kk
18:44:40  <Wolf01> glx, may the transparency patch could be merged in trunk (not this evening or tomorrow, but i'm annoyed by apply it every time i want a new nightly)?
18:45:03  <MeusH> I have Win95 installer on 30 floppies :D
18:45:19  <Darkvater> FlashFF: yes, it informs you of important evens,e rrors, warnings, etc.
18:45:19  <Wolf01> i have win3.1 in cd-rom
18:45:30  <Darkvater> FlashFF: you can turn them off however with NO_DEBUG_MESSAGES
18:45:31  <CIA-1> miham * r7601 /trunk/lang/ (8 files): (log message trimmed)
18:45:31  <CIA-1> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-12-28 19:44:37
18:45:31  <CIA-1> bulgarian - 7 fixed, 2 changed by kokobongo (9)
18:45:31  <CIA-1> catalan - 5 changed by arnaullv (5)
18:45:31  <CIA-1> estonian - 2 fixed, 7 changed by kristjans (9)
18:45:33  <CIA-1> italian - 2 fixed by sidew (2)
18:45:33  <CIA-1> polish - 3 fixed, 3 changed by meush (6)
18:46:03  <FlashFF> k
18:46:48  <peter1138> i remember the days of kde spewing tons of debug messages...
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18:49:35  <stillunknown> anyone know why a train reduces speed as it approaches a station?
18:49:47  <peter1138> because it's supposed to
18:49:53  <Darkvater> it compiles \o/
18:49:56  <stillunknown> i mean the code
18:49:59  <peter1138> that's what trains do
18:50:17  <peter1138> train_cmd.c:366
18:50:26  <Gonozal_VIII> working on those drive through depot thingies?
18:51:09  * Darkvater kisses peter1138 :D
18:51:10  <stillunknown> trying
18:51:14  <FlashFF> the best q is:  when a plane travelling at ~500 mph flies parrallel to a train travelling at ~80mph...  why does the train overtake the plane
18:51:16  <stillunknown> thanks peter
18:51:38  <Gonozal_VIII> it doesn't flash
18:51:51  <FlashFF> did t'other day
18:51:53  <peter1138> FlashFF: because the game units are different
18:51:56  <Gonozal_VIII> it would if it were 125 mph
18:52:06  <FlashFF> i was watchig a plane fly over a trainline and the train  came rocketting past
18:52:29  <Gonozal_VIII> 4 times faster...
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18:52:36  <peter1138> planes go 4 times slower than trains, relative to their speed display
18:52:50  <FlashFF> lol   why do they do that?
18:53:05  <peter1138> balance
18:53:06  <Gonozal_VIII> because they would make way too much profit otherwise
18:53:20  <FlashFF> lol
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18:53:45  <Gonozal_VIII> but i think it would be better to balance it in the profit calculation instead of messing with the speed
18:53:53  <FlashFF> yeah
18:53:54  <Born_Acorn> peter1138, any further work with the mega buffers of doom?
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18:54:02  <peter1138> yes, but not finished
18:54:11  <Gonozal_VIII> mega buffers of doom?^^
18:54:58  <Darkvater> OMG SAC's screenshots are ever soo awesome
18:55:07  <Darkvater> I think we should ban her or something...
18:55:12  <Darkvater> all my games look crap now :(
18:55:17  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
18:55:47  <Born_Acorn> <-- Mega buffers of doom!
18:56:27  <Gonozal_VIII> ah^^
18:56:31  <Athorium> hey, someone know something about ttdpatch?
18:56:51  <FlashFF> :(
18:57:02  <Gonozal_VIII> there are buffers in newstations grf
18:57:05  <FlashFF> i got all excited and thought mega buffers may mean bigger text buffers lol
18:57:22  <Darkvater> Born_Acorn: oh that's nice
18:57:24  <FlashFF> cos typing like
18:57:27  <FlashFF> this is quite
18:57:29  <FlashFF> annoying
18:57:49  <Darkvater> Born_Acorn: you can't have buffers on semi-snow ground?
18:58:05  <FlashFF> lol
18:58:31  <stillunknown> is it true that the GetWaypointByTile function will return nothing if it isn't a waypoint?
18:59:16  <glx> stillunknown: it will assert in this case
18:59:34  <stillunknown> what is an assert?
18:59:34  <Born_Acorn> Darkvater, you are soo demanding. :p
18:59:46  <Born_Acorn> But maybe in the next version? :p
19:00:50  <peter1138> heh
19:01:03  <stillunknown> or rather, what kind of return value does an assert give?
19:01:08  <peter1138> stations don't have semi-snow ground
19:01:12  <peter1138> it's either snow or no-snow
19:01:18  <stillunknown> or what does it do, if it doesn't give a return value
19:01:21  <glx> stillunknown: no return it stops execution
19:01:37  <stillunknown> so my return is NULL?
19:01:41  <glx> you need to check the tile before calling the function
19:01:42  <Darkvater> hmm shall I write 2 full debug() functions, or preprocessor-magic both together?
19:01:57  <Athorium> hey, someone know how can I install ECS in TTDP?
19:02:08  <glx> Athorium: you can't
19:02:15  <Athorium> why?
19:02:16  <glx> newindustries are not implemented yet
19:02:19  <peter1138> in ttdp
19:02:19  <stillunknown> glx: it crashes, now i remember what those do :-)
19:02:21  <Athorium> ?
19:02:24  <peter1138> you set it up as normal for ttdp
19:02:30  <Athorium>  glx I talking in TTDP
19:02:31  <peter1138> (put grfs in your newgrfw.cfg)
19:02:44  <peter1138> it's so tedious having to type them all out ;)
19:02:58  <glx> Athorium: sorry we are in the openttd channel :)
19:02:58  <Athorium> peter1138 I putted it but in grflist in game shows this:
19:03:03  <peter1138> putted! :D
19:03:14  <Athorium> ¬¬_
19:03:31  * Born_Acorn putted a golf ball into the hole at 13 yards
19:03:33  <peter1138> you'd be better off asking ttdpatch people
19:03:53  <Darkvater>
19:04:03  <Gonozal_VIII> nobody needs those irregular verbs n stuff :-)
19:04:10  <Athorium> "This set is incompatible with new factory for TTD set... Disable blabla blathijs..
19:04:13  <stillunknown> is there a common way to determine tiletype?
19:04:37  <Athorium> peter1138 I preffer OTTD but I would see some TTDP things.. like trams, more cargos etc, 'townbuildnoroads...' :P
19:04:56  <stillunknown> found it
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19:06:29  <Born_Acorn> I still haven't figured out who was making the trams. Are they even still doing them?
19:06:36  <Born_Acorn> peter1138 never spilled the beans!
19:06:48  <peter1138> i suspect not
19:06:52  <peter1138> i may have made it up :P
19:07:08  <Born_Acorn> :O
19:07:28  <peter1138> Darkvater: that *looks* awful... does it work? ;)
19:07:41  <Darkvater> yes :)
19:07:48  <peter1138> :D
19:08:05  *** _42_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:08:29  <Darkvater> just slightly slower as you always have a function call now
19:08:29  <peter1138> also
19:08:31  <peter1138> can you do that?
19:08:34  <peter1138> static inline foo();
19:08:47  <Darkvater> yes
19:08:49  <peter1138> o_O
19:09:07  <Darkvater> it'll just get removed since it does nothing, won't even look for a body
19:09:16  <Darkvater> but I'll double check
19:09:28  <peter1138> oh
19:09:34  <peter1138> no matter
19:09:41  <peter1138> it's for NO_DEBUG_MESSAGES, heh
19:10:12  <Athorium> tt-forums down?
19:10:20  <peter1138> yes
19:10:29  <Athorium> :(
19:10:47  <Athorium> svn down?
19:10:49  <Athorium> :S
19:12:14  <peter1138> yes
19:12:27  <Athorium> omg... this is the end!
19:12:29  <Athorium> -_-¡
19:12:45  <FlashFF> zomg!
19:12:50  <FlashFF> teh end is nigh!
19:13:21  <Wolf01> hey, compile farm failed this evening, or svn down again?
19:13:32  <peter1138> do you not read/
19:13:34  <FlashFF> lol
19:14:05  <peter1138> Wolf01: btw, the newobjects spec is starting to appear on the ttdp wiki
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19:16:39  <Darkvater> peter1138: indeed, 3 hours ago, action0objects
19:17:15  <Darkvater> ah, pretty empty
19:17:34  <peter1138> yeah
19:17:42  <peter1138> but it gives Wolf01 something to do
19:17:51  <Darkvater> :)
19:18:23  <Wolf01> not me, i don't know how grf works
19:18:49  <Maedhros> nor did i until i started messing about with newhouses
19:19:20  <Maedhros> and there's still quite a bit i don't know about it ;-)
19:19:33  <peter1138> Darkvater: anyway... if that patch works... then cool :)
19:19:55  <Wolf01> have you tried our?
19:20:09  <peter1138> our?
19:20:35  <Darkvater> peter1138: decided to write out the 2 full functions with some code's readable at least
19:20:39  <Darkvater> or keep it as it is?
19:22:06  <Darkvater> well; screw it
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19:26:07  <Darkvater> wtf?
19:26:20  <Darkvater> which genius forces misc-debug level to 0 when starting a dedicated server?
19:26:33  <Brianetta> erm
19:26:38  <Brianetta> <-- this one?
19:26:48  <Darkvater> video/dedicated_v.c:118
19:27:14  <Brianetta> Actually, I only turn off net debug, the rest seems quiet anyway
19:27:30  <Darkvater> you wish you'd turn it off
19:27:34  <Darkvater> 	_debug_net_level = 6;
19:27:35  <Darkvater> 	_debug_misc_level = 0;
19:27:43  <Darkvater> t'is forced down your throat
19:30:01  <peter1138> that's ... annoying
19:30:36  <Darkvater> I can understand net=6
19:30:50  <Darkvater> leave all, remove all, or only leave net=6?
19:30:59  <Rubidium> it's been there since the introduction of the dedicated server
19:31:26  <Darkvater> and it doesn't work with NO_DEBUG_MESSAGES defined
19:31:30  <Rubidium> I would say, make those two lines: "if (net != 0) net = 6"
19:31:42  <Darkvater> doesn't work
19:32:41  <Darkvater> I'll just set net to 6 and remove misc
19:36:05  * Darkvater is rightly pissed
19:36:31  <stillunknown> static inline bool IsRailWaypoint(TileIndex t) <-- this function, does that return 1 when a tile is a waypoint?
19:36:52  <stillunknown> (just to be very sure i'm not missing something strange)
19:37:08  <Rubidium> stillunknown: can you please add filename & line numbers?
19:37:18  <Brianetta> autopilot reads a value from the config and sets net_debug to that value, or zero
19:37:18  <stillunknown> rail_map.h 71
19:37:30  <Brianetta> (lazy or)
19:37:58  <Darkvater> Brianetta: the dedicated one overwrites that as startup debug-level settings is before videostart
19:38:20  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7602 /trunk/ (debug.c debug.h video/dedicated_v.c):
19:38:20  <CIA-1> -Fix (r7565): MSVC2003 and lower don't support variadic macros, so work around
19:38:20  <CIA-1>  this and thank MS for such a crappy, shitty crap compiler.
19:38:30  <Rubidium> stillunknown: it returns 'true' when t is a waypoint, false when t is not a waypoint, but a rail tile and it asserts (crashes the game) if it isn't a rail tile.
19:38:34  <Darkvater> now; where was I...
19:38:37  <Brianetta> Darkvater: Yes... and autopilot overrides all, as it also reads the config file, and types in the debug command.
19:38:52  <Darkvater> ah later, ingame
19:38:53  <Darkvater> ok
19:38:56  <stillunknown> Rubidium: i just realised what my problem is, thanks anyway
19:39:05  <Rubidium> you could have added FS#479 to that message too
19:39:22  * Brianetta is pondering a TK interface to the dedicated server
19:39:52  <Brianetta> It'll be an autopilot add-on
19:39:54  <Darkvater> Rubidium: he... I don't browse flyspray once someone told me of a bug; in this case KUDr
19:40:37  <Darkvater> seems compilefarm is pretty dead
19:41:14  <Rubidium> the servers had crashed (around 20:00), and I guess TrueBrain hasn't started the cronjob manually
19:41:20  <Darkvater> peter1138: you said I broke something earlier?
19:41:29  <peter1138> yes
19:41:33  <peter1138> i fixed it though
19:41:41  <Darkvater> yes, but what was it?
19:41:50  <peter1138> clearing grfconfig on load failure
19:41:56  <peter1138> r... something recent
19:42:12  <Darkvater> ah
19:42:47  <Darkvater> forums are down..
19:42:55  <Darkvater> or am I the x'th person saying this
19:43:12  <FlashFF> ur the x'th
19:49:41  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7603 /trunk/table/namegen.h: -Codechange (FS#481): update the Polish Town Name generator with Unicode characters (DDream).
19:50:31  <Maedhros> mmm, seems a bit neater -
19:50:48  <Maedhros> as compared to the current map layout -
19:51:38  <Rubidium> Maedhros: m6:6 is already used for rails/roads
19:52:05  <Maedhros> ah, ok. landscape.html needs updating then ;-)
19:52:46  <peter1138> hmm
19:53:14  <Rubidium> the bridge commit didn't touch docs/
19:55:26  <peter1138> heh
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19:57:04  <Rubidium> Maedhros: what about making m4 for Roads the road owner to?
19:57:28  <FlashFF> who updates the bug statuses on flyspray?
19:57:47  <Maedhros> Rubidium: could do... the road bits should be in the same place for both too
19:57:57  <Maedhros> back in a little while
19:58:16  <Rubidium> FlashFF: generally that would be the devs
19:58:40  <FlashFF> i see
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19:59:08  <FlashFF> cos theres one thats been on there couple of weeks that keeps making me chuckle lol
19:59:38  <FlashFF>
19:59:39  <FlashFF> rah
20:06:41  <Digitalfox> But Flash that's not a bug
20:07:05  <Digitalfox> If a train is running in a track it can't be cobverted while the train is over it
20:07:31  <Digitalfox> You have to send it do depot and convert the whole track and depot
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20:07:50  <Digitalfox> it's the logical thing..
20:08:06  *** Vikthor [] has joined #openttd
20:08:16  <Digitalfox> At least it's my opnion and how i see it works.. :)
20:08:39  <Biff> hehe
20:08:42  <Biff> its not a bug
20:08:55  <Rubidium> that's why FlashFF is laughing about it
20:08:56  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7604 /branches/makefile_rewrite/ ( config.lib): [MakefileRewrite] -Fix: implement semi-proper 'make install' functionality, i.e. similar to the 'make install' in trunk. It will be done properly with the search paths patch.
20:09:05  <Biff> only thing missing is the ability to convert a depot with trains it it
20:09:53  <Digitalfox> yeah biff, but train would have to automaticly be sold, cause we can't have a maglev in a depot for monorail :)
20:10:08  <Biff> Digitalfox: no, it should convert the train
20:10:27  <Digitalfox> but to what wagon and machine??
20:10:38  <Biff> yes, the whole train
20:10:42  <Digitalfox> only if you had ordered the autorepace
20:10:48  <Biff> its the intuitive thing
20:11:46  <Biff> if you hit a convert on a depot you order a autoreplace
20:11:51  <Digitalfox> it's possible, but i think itt's a little complicated.. First you had to have autoreplace activaded with the machine and wagons you wanted to replace, and
20:12:28  <Digitalfox> yeah.. Don't know if dev's want to make this feature :|
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20:12:51  <Biff> no, its quite simple. in the autoreplace window you select what you want converted to what
20:13:35  <Biff> then if all trains in depot have rules to replace them, you can convert the trains and the depot
20:13:47  <Digitalfox> but it's ins't coded to autoreplace different tracks machines.. :(
20:14:03  <FlashFF> admittedly it would be useful, since the game becomes pretty pointless when it comes time to convert as its such a pain to do
20:14:14  <Digitalfox> yeah i know ;)
20:14:51  <Biff> Digitalfox: yes it is
20:14:56  <Rubidium> the idea is to build multitile depots with both monorail & maglev, so you can convert the trains in there and then convert the whole infrastructure
20:15:03  <Biff> it just has code that checks if a replacement is sane
20:15:05  <Rubidium> but nobody has had the urge to implement that
20:15:14  <Biff> Rubidium: and that is alot of work
20:15:17  <Biff> for a big network
20:15:22  <FlashFF> yeah but you still have to create each new vehicle manually and transfer orders
20:15:39  <FlashFF> and often i have like 75 - 100 trains by that point
20:15:52  <Rubidium> Biff: the conversion of trains would happen via autoreplace, but only in those multitile depots
20:15:58  <Biff> FlashFF: try 200
20:16:00  <FlashFF> lol
20:16:04  * FlashFF cries
20:16:08  <Biff> i've done it once :/
20:16:12  <Biff> never again
20:16:19  <Digitalfox> I know biff, i have almost 1800 trains by the time monorail appears
20:16:28  <Biff> Rubidium: then you would need to create a large number of depots
20:16:30  <Biff> Digitalfox: cool
20:16:36  <Digitalfox> so i know the work it means
20:16:43  <Biff> Digitalfox: how large maps do you usually play?
20:16:54  <Digitalfox> i sue the cheat pause or my last 50 years would be spend repacing
20:17:00  <Digitalfox> 1024 * 1024
20:17:01  <Rubidium> Biff: true, but upgrading shouldn't be cheap
20:17:12  <Biff> Rubidium: cheap how?
20:17:36  <FlashFF> so rubidium... get coding! lol
20:17:37  <Biff> Rubidium: if you require the user to do something thats utterly boring, and not at all hard, just repetative
20:17:46  <Biff> how is that a good feature in a game?
20:18:02  <Rubidium> how's that different to laying rail?
20:18:14  <Biff> people like laying rail
20:18:15  <Rubidium> but one multitile depot would be enough
20:18:28  <Biff> not replacing
20:18:40  <Rubidium> it just takes a hell of a lot of time till all trains have found their way to that single depot :)
20:18:46  <Digitalfox> Well i'm not a lazy person, but it's quite boring replacing depots and trains with monorail and maglev.. Now i'm using newgrf, so just maglev :)
20:18:47  <Biff> everyone who likes replacing trains manually, raise their hands
20:19:00  <stillunknown> would a (very) slow ridetrough maintenance be acceptable?
20:19:01  <Biff> Rubidium: exactly, so it should be as easy as possible
20:19:01  <Digitalfox> my hand is down.. :|
20:19:16  <Maedhros> back
20:19:45  <hylje> Biff: \o
20:20:00  <stillunknown> forget it
20:20:26  <hylje> station-like depots?
20:20:27  <hylje> plx?
20:20:44  <stillunknown> trying
20:20:58  <stillunknown> more like a mix between a depot, a waypoint and a station
20:21:00  <Biff> hylje: servicing should rather be done at the station then?
20:21:10  <hylje> its not a station, its a depot
20:21:15  <hylje> but behaves like a station
20:21:28  <FlashFF> you mean kinda like a siding IRL
20:21:30  <FlashFF> ?
20:21:56  <Biff> if it lookes like and behaves a station, then why cant the service men/women stand at the station and service the train
20:21:59  <Biff> ?
20:22:27  <Gonozal_VIII> replacing is not that hard, all trains with same orders in a depot, sell them all, convert the depot, buy a new train (automatically has the orders) and then clone the rest...
20:22:37  <hylje> Biff: they can, its the grf makers stuff
20:22:47  <stillunknown> i'm thinking (since it's practical in terms of code) to have a slow passtrough every time a locomotive passes
20:23:01  <Biff> Gonozal_VIII: with 200 trains, how is that not tedious?
20:23:29  <FlashFF> but gonzal  that would mean you have to go though and pick out each train that has the same orders and use a new depot for each set
20:24:02  <Gonozal_VIII> hmm is the list thing not in trunk?
20:24:34  <Biff> what list?
20:24:36  <Gonozal_VIII> list of all trains that visit a certain station and such
20:24:49  <Biff> yes, it is in trunk
20:25:02  <Gonozal_VIII> so then picking out the trains is not a problem
20:25:51  <Biff> then you still need to go to every industry
20:25:56  <Biff> where you have a station
20:25:58  <Biff> and do it
20:26:05  <Biff> its not practical with alot of trains
20:26:05  <FlashFF> not to mention...
20:26:14  <FlashFF> you need a separate depot for each set of orders!
20:26:17  <Gonozal_VIII> anyways, i would like that planned (?) feature, all i'm saying is that it's not THAT much work without it
20:26:31  <Biff> Gonozal_VIII: have you tried with many trains?
20:26:35  <Gonozal_VIII> yes
20:26:54  <FlashFF> have you tried with many trains on a large joined station?
20:26:55  <Biff> ok, you can have a savegame, convert all the trains and take note of how much time you use
20:27:05  <FlashFF> ntot with 1 track per route
20:27:07  <FlashFF> *not
20:27:13  <Gonozal_VIII> before i had dbset... now there's just normal rail so that problem is gone
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20:28:46  <Gonozal_VIII> it is much work but not as much as the creation of the lines was
20:29:23  <Biff> building a large network is whats fun
20:30:39  <Biff> converting the trains are not
20:31:47  <Gonozal_VIII> yes... i didn't want to say, that it is best the way it is and shouldn't be optimized... i just wanted to say, that it's not as bad as: [21:15:22] <FlashFF> yeah but you still have to create each new vehicle manually and transfer orders
20:31:48  <peter1138> with ukrs, i never need anything other than rails
20:32:05  <peter1138> i do sometimes set up separate maglev routes though
20:32:10  <Gonozal_VIII> same with dbsetxl
20:32:17  <peter1138> yeah, but dbsetxl is ugly ;)
20:32:21  <Gonozal_VIII> why?
20:32:35  <peter1138> some of the engines are a bit... dubious
20:32:43  <peter1138> and i'm just biased
20:32:49  <Gonozal_VIII> hmm those are real engines..
20:33:01  <peter1138> yeah, i mean the graphics
20:33:35  <Gonozal_VIII> i like it :-)
20:35:10  <Biff> peter1138: well, you can always play with normal rails
20:35:18  <Biff> but it would be nice to be able to try maglev
20:35:46  <peter1138> they look so ugly too
20:35:48  <peter1138> the tracks that is
20:36:52  * peter1138 offski
20:37:54  <Biff> truth you speak
20:37:58  <MeusH> do you know some IRC channel aimed at midlet developement? Like java applications for mobile phones?
20:39:28  <Biff> does the uk industries set work in openttd?
20:39:38  <MeusH> no
20:40:23  <Biff> oh, to bad
20:40:25  <FlashFF> i found finding decent midlet dev communities was quite tough
20:40:28  <Biff> they looked kindof cool
20:40:48  <FlashFF> i couldnt even find ANY iappli developers
20:43:28  <FlashFF> every time i type anything... people go silent
20:43:49  <FlashFF> am i some kind of god?
20:43:50  <FlashFF> lol
20:48:22  <Biff> hmm
20:48:28  <Biff> yes you are
20:48:46  <Biff> where shall i place grf files? i tried ~/.openttd/data/pb_ukrs.grf
20:48:59  <Biff> and added pb_ukrs.grf under [newgrf] in the config file
20:49:03  *** tosse [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:49:28  <Biff> result: no new trains, and the entry is removed from the config file
20:49:39  <Biff> and it does not show in the newgrf gui
20:50:07  <Darkvater> why aren't you using the ingame gui?
20:50:21  <Biff> because the wiki told me to do it this way
20:50:27  <Gonozal_VIII> wiki is old
20:50:29  <Darkvater> the wiki is outdated
20:50:32  <Biff> ok
20:50:51  <Biff> so this someone person hasnt updated it?
20:51:08  <Gonozal_VIII> yes, it's all someone's fault
20:51:20  <Biff> but, the gui does not detect the file when its in ~/.openttd/data
20:51:27  <Gonozal_VIII> stupid someone, never does anything right
20:51:28  <Biff> is that the correct folder
20:51:33  <Noldo> what everyone can do is no-one's responsibility
20:51:49  <Rubidium> Biff: currently it is not likely that that is the correct path
20:52:05  <Darkvater> it is if he used make install and set PERSONAL_DIR
20:52:19  <Darkvater> but brrr, that install thing is a blahck
20:52:26  <Biff> no, i used dpkg-buildpackage
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20:53:42  <stillunknown> anyone know if there is a flag that sais that a wagon is a locomotive?
20:53:43  <Rubidium> Darkvater: PERSONAL_DIR does not influence the data path
20:54:12  <Darkvater> doesn't?
20:54:14  <Darkvater> my bad
20:54:14  <Biff> doesnt it by default search through my home folder?
20:54:15  <Rubidium> stillunknown: there is
20:54:57  <Rubidium> Biff: not yet, it is planned, but it is not completely implemented yet, i.e. it is 0.6 material
20:55:11  <Biff> but it's implemented?
20:55:18  <stillunknown> any hints on what it is Rubidium?
20:55:19  <Biff> or did i understand wrong?
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20:56:16  <Rubidium> Biff: there is a partial, not completely correctly working implementation, but it has not been committed yet
20:56:25  <Biff> ok
20:56:44  <Biff> now something like that i could probably fix
20:56:54  <Rubidium> stillunknown: head -n 25 train.h
20:58:50  <Rubidium> you could have found that yourself _very_ easily
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21:01:11  <stillunknown> if i had realised that such functions are in train.h, which i didn't :-|
21:01:58  <Biff> stillunknown: grep
21:02:17  <Biff> if you know some of the text obviously
21:02:30  <Biff> hmm, a brake van
21:02:41  <Biff> why would i want a van with brakes? :p
21:03:22  <Prof_Frink> better'n a broken van
21:04:30  <Gonozal_VIII> realistic deceleration... if that will be implemented
21:04:44  <hylje> yea, trains crashing
21:04:50  <Gonozal_VIII> :-)
21:05:43  <Gonozal_VIII> that would be really cool... more planning and testing needed when building crossings and such
21:06:18  <Gonozal_VIII> but then trains shouldn't be completely destroyed when they crash at low speed
21:06:19  <hylje> and jams would kill trains
21:06:24  <hylje> oh yeah
21:06:27  <hylje> give trains hitpoints
21:06:31  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
21:06:33  <hylje> and each wagon got its own hp pool
21:06:40  <hylje> so if a train runs into the back of another
21:06:51  <hylje> both just lose the colliding stuff
21:07:06  <hylje> and possibly the rest take damages due to derail etc
21:07:14  <Gonozal_VIII> 3 speed ranges.. very low speed cras = nothing, low speed = breakdown, high speed = boom
21:07:49  <FlashFF> im bored
21:07:51  <FlashFF> what shall i code
21:08:00  <Gonozal_VIII> train hitpoints^^
21:08:41  <FlashFF> lol
21:09:39  <Darkvater> FlashFF: code us a ship pathfinder based on YAPF that does not consume lots of CPU
21:09:53  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm ships
21:10:30  <Gonozal_VIII> only good thing on them is that they go through each other^^
21:11:07  <FlashFF> step 1: find out what yapf is
21:11:12  <Digitalfox> Flash code the number of sprites openttd can use to the double or more.. :)
21:11:21  <Gonozal_VIII> yet another pathfinder
21:11:25  <FlashFF> oh god
21:11:30  <Digitalfox> I'm tired of the the limit, making me only use a couple of set... :(
21:11:35  <FlashFF> made my a pure linux geek no doubt lol
21:11:38  <FlashFF> *by
21:11:48  <Gonozal_VIII> somebody is already working on sprite limit
21:12:04  <Darkvater> FlashFF: it's the pathfinder used in openttd. (coded by windows user :), named by someone else)
21:12:06  <FlashFF> whats the current limit?
21:12:08  <Darkvater> Yet Another Path Finder
21:12:10  <FlashFF> lol
21:12:17  <Digitalfox> yeah gonozal, but there's more important things the dev team have to do..
21:12:24  <Digitalfox> 16*** and something
21:12:25  <FlashFF> yeah i found the wiki page now
21:12:47  <Digitalfox> the problem with the limit is the newgrf you can use
21:13:43  <Digitalfox> this may be crazy, but i'm editing the set's i use, remving sprites of things i don't use so i can have more newgrf stuff. :(
21:13:46  <FlashFF> ok i can make a pathfinder that makes vehicles find out where they are going, as long as theres no options in the road/track at all!
21:14:11  <hylje> :D
21:14:32  <Digitalfox> if only editing the source code and doubling the sprites limit, was this easy.. :|
21:14:37  <Born_Acorn> hmm, that Eyecandy patch looks interesting
21:14:54  <Born_Acorn> It'll be good if it could have newobjects support whenever eis_os finishes it
21:14:58  <FlashFF> i dunno why it isn't digi
21:15:17  <FlashFF> surely the only thing that would limit it would be a value somewhere in the gfx engine
21:15:50  <Digitalfox> well. For what i understand of the source code, it it'a a lot more complicated than that
21:15:58  <Gonozal_VIII> yes, eyecandy sounds nice... better than surrounding a city that you don't want to expand with ugly signs
21:16:02  <FlashFF> hmmm
21:17:16  <Digitalfox> It seems the sprite limit is all present in a lot of line codes.. :|
21:17:29  <Digitalfox> And not just one simple code line
21:17:33  <FlashFF> still confused lol
21:17:53  <Digitalfox> But i'm a noob in programming, so don't take a word of this i just said.. ;)
21:17:56  <FlashFF> somewhere there must be a limit by a value
21:18:15  <Digitalfox> I'm sure a dev could explain to you..
21:18:24  <Digitalfox> Any dev out there?
21:20:03  <Darkvater> why are you guys still on about the sprite limit? peter's working on it, have a little patience
21:20:15  <glx> FlashFF: peter1138 has a patch to increase the limit but it is very very big :)
21:20:18  <Digitalfox> ok, sorry darvader :(
21:20:33  <Darkvater> we have a sprite limit because of the 32bit sprite there are available you can only use about 14. The others are used for transparency, recolouring, palette, etc.
21:21:00  <Darkvater> what quark did with his patch can break any moment
21:21:30  <Digitalfox> Any idea what's the new max value for peter patch?
21:21:53  *** Mucht_ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:22:37  <Darkvater> a few million
21:22:54  <hylje> :o
21:22:58  <Digitalfox> Now that's a cool value :0)
21:23:09  <hylje> just like the year can go up to 5mill
21:23:26  <Gonozal_VIII> not 500k?
21:23:46  <Darkvater> if ($user == Gonozal_VIII) limit = 500k;
21:23:48  <Darkvater> happy now?
21:23:53  <Gonozal_VIII> ^^
21:24:35  <Digitalfox> 500k  = 500.000 ??
21:24:51  <Gonozal_VIII> yes
21:24:53  <Digitalfox> ok
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21:25:16  <Gonozal_VIII> that was for the year... i thought that would now be limited to 500k...
21:25:28  <Gonozal_VIII> doesn't matter anyways
21:25:37  <Darkvater> eternal_gameplay on
21:25:52  <FlashFF> it has to be asked digi  why would you need more than 16k sprites lol
21:25:57  <hylje> Darkvater: does that mean it wraps back in the end?
21:26:06  <Darkvater> no idea
21:26:16  <hylje> patch it, just because
21:26:18  <Darkvater> and I will personally ban you from this channel if you post a bugreport about it
21:26:18  <Gonozal_VIII> to minus something :-)
21:26:26  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
21:26:42  <hylje> seriously?
21:26:55  <Darkvater> yes
21:28:19  <Darkvater> 2sec/day * 30 days * 12 months * 5.000.000 years = 3600000000 sec = 1000000 days = 2700 years
21:28:28  *** Guest56 [] has joined #openttd
21:28:31  <Born_Acorn> Make bugs reports about the sound not going away when you put the sliders to 0!
21:29:17  <Guest56> ping
21:29:21  <Guest56> ah
21:30:12  <SpComb> Logs:
21:30:12  <Guest56> !logs
21:31:49  <MeusH> Darkvater, if we start soon, OpenTTD may be the longest game ever played... provided our children will like tycoon, too
21:31:53  <MeusH> and grandchildren :)
21:32:26  <Guest56> sure they will, everybody does
21:33:55  <FlashFF> tsk tsk  compile warnings on the svn version
21:34:16  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
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21:34:35  <Gonozal_VIII> operation timed out... that's new
21:34:54  <FlashFF> its pr0
21:36:04  <FlashFF> stdafx.h:200: warning: redefinition of `uint'
21:36:10  <FlashFF> ican actually patch that one!
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21:39:49  <FlashFF> oh crap
21:40:02  <FlashFF> who loves linux and mainly loves the 'screen' program?
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21:40:13  <FlashFF> i pressed ctrl + a s
21:40:13  <Born_Acorn> Well, TT was first released in '94 making it 12 years old
21:40:28  <FlashFF> and now its broke
21:42:02  <Darkvater> FlashFF: what OS are you using?
21:42:06  <FlashFF> slackware 10.2
21:42:15  <hylje> my ottd compiles cleanly
21:42:27  <hylje> FlashFF: screen is awesome
21:42:29  <Darkvater> FlashFF: it doesn't have UNIX defined?
21:42:36  <hylje> FlashFF: and hint: ^A^Q
21:42:42  <hylje> FlashFF: it un-stops it
21:42:48  <Bjarni> did anything interesting happen today?
21:42:56  <Bjarni> my mailserver broke again :(
21:42:59  <FlashFF> doesnt that ake it go away totally?
21:43:02  <hylje> no
21:43:10  <FlashFF> k
21:43:19  <FlashFF> if it dos ill hunt you down lol
21:43:23  <FlashFF> *does
21:43:40  <FlashFF> i love you
21:43:45  <FlashFF> :)
21:47:20  <Darkvater> Bjarni: noting really
21:49:22  <FlashFF> lies
21:49:29  <FlashFF> today i found out i was a god
21:49:33  <FlashFF> thats fairly importatn
21:49:38  <FlashFF> evn tho i cant spell
21:49:47  <hylje> yeah, you traded your spelling for godness
21:50:04  <FlashFF> hey  gimme a break   i type only code
21:50:11  <FlashFF> you dont need spelling for that
21:50:29  <hylje> oh yes
21:50:32  <hylje> its a grammar nazi
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21:50:38  <FlashFF> lol
21:55:15  <izhirahider> what's the maximum ammount of towns a single map can possibly have?
21:57:32  <FlashFF> id have to guess at lots
22:00:00  <Mucht> suggestion: make the patch-settings-box larger (at least in the german version of ottd, the letters don't fit in there)
22:01:22  <Maedhros> izhirahider: 65535, i think
22:03:22  <Rubidium> Mucht: the art of translating applications is to make a translation that fits
22:07:19  *** PandaMojo [] has joined #openttd
22:08:07  <Sacro> Mucht: just be glad you havent got any lip syncing
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22:42:38  <peter1138> sprite limit eh?
22:43:04  <RichK67> hi peter
22:43:17  <stillunknown> i need a bit advice, i want to make passtrough maintenance depots/waypoints, but i'd prefer it if they stop completely
22:43:34  <peter1138> FlashFF: 16k sprites isn't all that many
22:43:35  <stillunknown> i just don't know what is the sanest way to restart them after that
22:43:38  <peter1138> hi rich
22:45:02  <MeusH> stillunknown, tommorow I'll do some research on these depots. Unless Bjarni has done something already
22:46:46  <stillunknown> i was considering adding a third state, besides AM_ACCEL and AM_BRAKE, which would reset to AM_ACCEL once cur_speed 0 is reached
22:47:16  <peter1138> i don't think that's appropriate
22:47:33  <stillunknown> hence the question :-)
22:47:38  <peter1138> hence the answer ;p
22:49:04  <Born_Acorn> peter1138! newbuffers!
22:49:20  <MeusH> Born_Acorn! that's getting funny! :D
22:49:32  <MeusH> stillunknown, it really can be done the other way, trust me :)
22:49:36  <MeusH> but it's difficult
22:49:40  <peter1138> hehe
22:49:42  <Born_Acorn> It's not meant to be funny. :(
22:49:57  <peter1138> i was idly fiddling with 'autoslope', i'm afraid
22:49:58  <Darkvater> newsacs!
22:50:00  <MeusH> you see, I have the answer in my imagination, but when I start coding it all gets harder and harder
22:50:13  <peter1138> hehe
22:50:21  <Born_Acorn> Autoslope for OTTD?
22:50:23  <Rubidium> newrc!
22:50:39  <Born_Acorn> That takes priority over buffers!
22:50:39  <Darkvater> rc?
22:50:47  <Born_Acorn> Release Candidate!
22:50:48  <stillunknown> MeusH: i've got another idea, but i need to see if it's codeable in a sane way
22:51:00  <RichK67> now ive got away from MiniIN ... thank god... i think i may take another look at route colours
22:51:32  <MeusH> stillunknown, tell it
22:51:39  <Darkvater> oh
22:51:56  <MeusH> route colours? what's that?
22:52:02  <MeusH> maybye that's the secret "RC"? :p
22:52:14  <Darkvater> do we still need this manual.txt/multiplayer.txt in docs?
22:52:33  <peter1138> i've never read it
22:52:42  <stillunknown> MeusH: give me a minute to fill in the gaps (that i've just realised)
22:52:46  <Darkvater> lol
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22:52:49  <Darkvater>  - From 0.3.5, desyncs should not happen anymore
22:52:59  <MeusH> kk stillunknown
22:53:16  <MeusH> Darkvater, I don't have manual.txt, but multiplayer.txt seems to be usable
22:53:17  <peter1138> hehe
22:53:18  <peter1138> if only :)
22:53:57  <RichK67> its my evolution of speed signs - assign a colour to a train route, and mark that route by coloured signs... the PF would bias towards sending the train down that route... eg. slow freight - blue, fast freight - yellow, local (slow) passenger - red, fast passenger - green, etc... but totally up to user to decide what a colour means
22:54:41  <MeusH> so codewise there will be a number assigned to train/sign, and GUI will render a colour linked to the given number?
22:54:44  <RichK67> in effect it would let you sort your mainlines by speed, by destination, by whatever
22:54:52  <MeusH> yeah, that would be great
22:54:59  <RichK67> nah.. simpler... just 7 colours
22:55:13  <RichK67> = 3 bits
22:55:18  <MeusH> ok
22:55:30  <stillunknown> MeusH: i think i've got it now
22:55:42  <MeusH> RichK67, there's been a discussion about lines
22:55:45  <RichK67> the colour markers would just bias the pathfinder
22:55:50  <MeusH> like in simutrans
22:55:55  <MeusH> aha
22:55:56  <MeusH> ok
22:56:32  <RichK67> so if the colour is the same, a positive bias... otherwise neutral
22:56:34  <hylje> id rather have hardcoded colours
22:56:43  <hylje> less confusion among users
22:57:16  <stillunknown> first loc approaches, reliability lower than max, slows down to speed 0, the restarts, reliability is maximum so it now stays below maximum depot speed, but since the reliability is maximum it won't trigger another complete stop
22:57:19  <stillunknown> at MeusH
22:57:23  <RichK67> yup - just 7 colours... no need to predefine what they mean though
22:57:38  <MeusH> hylje, it will be a disguise for competitors :)
22:57:43  <peter1138> i'd rather have... a few pints
22:58:05  <RichK67> whisky is my poison :)
22:58:16  <MeusH> stillunknown, I'd be happy with advanced signals
22:58:27  <MeusH> or...
22:58:27  <peter1138> hmm, i need to update this sprite limit patch
22:58:28  <MeusH> hmm
22:58:32  <peter1138> due to the bridge merge
22:58:40  <peter1138> bye
22:58:46  <MeusH> so that one could send train somewhere only if it needs servicing
22:58:50  <MeusH> bye peter1138
22:59:06  <stillunknown> no, what i'm suggesting is ride through depot
22:59:11  <MeusH> stillunknown, I've got to check how does "Service" order work
22:59:15  <RichK67> bbl - got a network to build ;)
22:59:22  <RichK67> better than watching cricket ;)
22:59:25  <stillunknown> which would stop the train if in need of repair
22:59:37  <MeusH> stillunknown, if you combine that signalling with roro depots, that will be what you want
22:59:43  <MeusH> but the depots won't be on mainline
22:59:50  <MeusH> they will be on sideline instead
22:59:58  <MeusH> bye RichK67
23:00:03  <RichK67> cya
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23:00:15  <stillunknown> yes, speed limitations will be present all the way, so it's a restriction
23:00:55  <stillunknown> just considering if i can make every engine stop, since they all need maintenance
23:01:06  <mattt_> any docs on building an efficient train station where there's significant amounts of traffic?  my trains are getting backed up way down the line and there's only like 2 platforms used at a time
23:01:11  <stillunknown> MeusH: i'm going to use waypoints as a baseline
23:01:19  <MeusH> stillunknown, and I'll use stations
23:01:34  <MeusH> anyway, I've got to go
23:01:36  <MeusH> goodnight
23:01:43  *** MeusH [] has quit [Quit: bye - quit]
23:03:17  <Gonozal_VIII> mattt, signals between the platform entrys, long enough rails before the platform so that they won't slow down on the mainline and everything should work
23:05:15  <Tuzlo> do oil refineries become of at a certain date?
23:05:58  <Gonozal_VIII> become of?
23:06:29  <Tuzlo> when the hell do they appear?
23:06:45  <Tuzlo> I have oil wells, no refineries that I can find
23:06:50  <Gonozal_VIII> not very often...
23:07:05  <Gonozal_VIII> only had one appearing in 100 game years of the last game
23:07:30  <Gonozal_VIII> you can fund one
23:07:36  <Tuzlo> guess so
23:08:22  <mattt_> any plans on a patch to allow bridges over diagonal rail ^_^
23:08:32  <Gonozal_VIII> ^^
23:08:37  <Gonozal_VIII> it is in trunk
23:08:50  <mattt_> snap, you guys think of everything ;)
23:09:08  <Gonozal_VIII> even with signals under the bridge :-)
23:09:09  <Darkvater> some people are so hopelessly outdated ;)
23:09:18  <mattt_> w00t!
23:09:21  <mattt_> that's awesome
23:09:32  <Tuzlo> haha, got no suitable land for one
23:09:44  <mattt_> it'd be cool to have the signals on the bridge posts :)
23:09:48  <Rubidium> Tuzlo: they need to be near the edge of the map
23:10:02  <Tuzlo> thought so
23:10:06  <Tuzlo> how far?
23:10:09  <Tuzlo> 12 spaces?
23:10:16  <Gonozal_VIII> patch setting
23:11:35  <PandaMojo> That got into trunk again?  Awesome!
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23:12:10  <Gonozal_VIII> that's not in trunk? ok.. sry then
23:12:38  <PandaMojo> Well, last I'd checked it was out, but I hadn't checked recently
23:12:42  <Gonozal_VIII> should be 16
23:14:12  <stillunknown> bridges over diagonal rail is in trunk
23:14:41  <Gonozal_VIII> yes but oil raf distance i don't know..
23:15:42  <mattt_> know what would be cool?  being able to purchase houses in town so you can tear 'em down - the idea is that purchasing the house would circumvent the local authority's rating of you (it'd be expensive though)
23:16:15  <mattt_> one stupid house blocking the path of a huge section of rail right now :P
23:16:26  <Gonozal_VIII> trees do the trick :-)
23:16:29  <mattt_> i destroyed the town though so my rating is crap
23:16:40  <mattt_> yeah, i've put in tons of trees
23:17:08  <Gonozal_VIII> destroy all of them around town and then replant half of them... rating should be good then^^
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23:17:26  <Maedhros> Gonozal_VIII: it should be in the Construction tab of the patches window
23:18:15  <mattt_> haha, i hadn't thought of that
23:20:54  <Gonozal_VIII> i know where it should be maedhros but i don't have a trunk build right now so i can't check
23:21:24  <Gonozal_VIII> but i think pandamojo wasn't talking about that anyways
23:22:06  <PandaMojo> I was talking about the signals and diagonals under bridges
23:22:55  <PandaMojo> (which I just verified *is* in trunk yay!)
23:23:04  <Gonozal_VIII> yes :-)
23:23:33  <Maedhros> ah, i see :)
23:24:23  <Darkvater> hmm I think I'll delete the readme_os2.txt
23:24:37  <Darkvater> or
23:24:39  <Darkvater> orudge: ping
23:24:49  <Brianetta> New game on my RC1 server
23:24:54  <orudge> Darkvater
23:25:10  <Darkvater> can you do something about docs/readme_os2.txt? :)
23:25:15  <orudge> Well
23:25:22  <orudge> the OS/2 port has been built
23:25:26  <orudge> but there are some issues with the gcc version
23:25:28  <orudge> which are being worked on
23:25:34  <orudge> With that will come and update of the readme ;)
23:25:37  <Darkvater> orudge: it's hopelessly outdated and I think some things are even fixed by then
23:25:40  <Darkvater> ah cool :)
23:25:57  *** XeryusTC [] has quit []
23:25:59  <orudge> It may be a few days though, Paul is working on the gcc stuff at the moment
23:26:07  <Darkvater> you mean porting gcc?
23:30:43  <mattt_> if i'm building a multi-entrance platform (ie: 4 platforms with a pair of incoming tracks both of which split in two to serve a total of 4 platforms) how would I do the presignals?  I'm thinking a presignal entrance right before the main line splits in two, and on each split i'd have a combo, and then before the platform i'd have presignal exits?
23:32:50  <Gonozal_VIII> platform, normal signal, decelerating/waiting line, presignal exit, split, presignal entrance
23:33:21  <mattt_> but what about when the mainline splits?
23:33:34  <stillunknown> what's the date format in ottd?
23:33:40  <Gonozal_VIII> mainline doesn't have to split
23:34:11  <Gonozal_VIII> i think it counts days
23:34:22  <Wolf01> 'night all
23:34:26  <Gonozal_VIII> night
23:34:29  *** Wolf01 [] has quit []
23:35:21  <mattt_> Gonozal_VIII: the problem is that this platform isn't roro, so trains are always waiting for another train to exit, so this station doesn't efficiently use every available platform
23:35:22  <orudge> Darkvater: not porting GCC
23:35:27  <orudge> os2.c is very Watcom specific
23:35:33  <orudge> some of the stuff needs to be ported to work with gcc
23:35:35  <Darkvater> ah, ok
23:35:41  <orudge> (he used unix.c before)
23:35:51  <Darkvater> so why use os2.c?
23:35:52  <orudge> (but that has complications with drive letters, basically)
23:35:56  <Darkvater> ok
23:39:16  <tokai> heh.. all the missing ottd svn mailouts are coming in.. seems they were stuck in some queue for some time:)
23:39:49  <Gonozal_VIII> high traffic station that isn't roro is not a good idea
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23:44:13  *** Belugas_Gone [] has quit [Quit: How about sleeping? Yeaaa..]

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