Log for #openttd on 29th December 2006:
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00:01:34  <Brianetta> Interested parties can join #autopilot ti take the piss out of the noobs on my server (:
00:06:51  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7605 /trunk/docs/ (4 files): -Update documentation of MSVC and strgen in docs/ dir and remove directmusic.txt
00:12:10  *** Vikthor [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
00:28:24  <Athorium> hi
00:38:35  <Bjarni> great, now I got access to my mail account again
00:38:42  <Bjarni> and just got 50 svn commit messages
00:39:57  <Brianetta> What, exactly, does the "Feature: Add freight trains patch option" do?  I can't find it in the Wiki
00:41:22  <Darkvater> Brianetta: you get a weight multiplier to freight-wagons to make them heavier
00:41:30  <Brianetta> Just the weight?
00:41:33  <Darkvater> and accelerate more 'realistically'
00:41:35  <Brianetta> Not capacity, etc?
00:41:59  <Darkvater> I think it was just weight
00:42:01  <Darkvater> what rev?
00:42:05  <Brianetta> So if you carry 20t of steel, it's like somebody piled 80t of ballast on top?
00:42:14  <Brianetta> 0.5.0rc1
00:42:18  <Brianetta> change from 0.4.8
00:42:22  <Darkvater> what rev was it added in?
00:42:23  * Brianetta shrugs
00:42:26  <Darkvater> it's at the end
00:42:31  <Brianetta> I'll look in the logs for it
00:42:35  <Darkvater> ..
00:42:48  <Darkvater> - Feature: Add freight trains patch option which is a multiplier for the weight of cargo on freight trains, to simulate longer heavier trains (r7269)
00:42:55  <Darkvater> 7269
00:43:16  <Brianetta> ah, you're on that page
00:43:22  <Darkvater> donnu where you are
00:43:24  <Brianetta> I'd moved on to another wiki page
00:43:36  <Darkvater>
00:43:41  <Darkvater> I'm on changelog.txt
00:44:12  <Sacro> Darkvater: thats too colourful for my liking
00:44:47  <Brianetta> So this is a clone of a Patch feature
00:45:03  <Darkvater> yes, many are
00:45:05  <Brianetta> I'm always careful not to assume that a feature, even with the same name, is exactly analagous
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00:45:28  <Brianetta> PBS, for example, was significantly different when you looked at it
00:45:52  <Darkvater> yes, it was broken
00:46:00  <Brianetta> (:
00:46:16  <Sacro> it wasnt broken... per se
00:46:16  * Rubidium does like "#define fopen(file, mode) _wfopen(OTTD2FS(file), L ## mode)", as it does not work with variables
00:46:40  <Ailure> mew
00:46:41  <Ailure> I mean
00:46:43  * Ailure yawns
00:46:44  * Rubidium does NOT like ....
00:47:00  <Brianetta> Rubidium: I was about to ask if you meant that, but I was re-parsing
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00:47:35  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
00:47:48  <Darkvater> Rubidium: yeah, not my best code but it was the fastest implementation. Anything else and you had to go converting W<>MB inside a custom fopen
00:47:54  <Ailure> Rubidium dosen't like ellipses?
00:48:31  <Rubidium> I don't like it when it results in: error: `Lmode' undeclared (first use in this function)
00:48:47  <Rubidium> when doing fopen(file, mode)
00:48:51  <Darkvater> hehe
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00:52:10  <Brianetta> if freight_trains could be set to 0, would trains carrying items other than passengers and mail hit the speed of light?
00:52:46  <Sacro> Brianetta: no, nullity
00:52:52  <Rubidium> ah well, it's something you can solve with a "#ifdef WIN32\nconst char *Lmode = mode; /* You got to love Windows 9x support */\n#endif"
00:53:16  <Sacro> actually, infinitiy if its moving, and nullity if its stopped
00:53:19  <Darkvater> ?
00:53:36  <Ailure> lol
00:54:16  <Darkvater> but, sleepie :)
00:54:31  <Born_Acorn> I'm going to create a new number call fullity
00:54:43  <Eddi|zuHause> mattt_: if you are planning a terminus station (or 2-way-station) without PBS, you are probably hopelessly screwed ;)
00:54:45  <Born_Acorn> Every possible equation = fullity
00:55:02  <Born_Acorn> So write down fullity on your maths exams
00:55:04  <mattt_> ^_^
00:56:00  <Ailure> isn't that what nullity was proposed to be?
00:56:04  <Ailure> or something
00:56:10  <Ailure> grah I need to read about it again
00:56:12  <Ailure> it was a wierd theory
00:56:33  <Ailure> about X/0=NULLITY
00:56:49  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not a new theory, it is just a name for something that has been around for at least 300 years
00:57:05  <Brianetta> Sacro: It's a mass multiplier
00:57:20  <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. the case "0/0" when considering mathmatical limits
00:57:39  <Brianetta> "nullity" remains undefined
00:57:58  <Sacro> Ailure: nullity = 0/0
00:58:02  <Sacro> and 0^0
00:58:06  <Brianetta> no
00:58:08  <Brianetta> Sacro: no
00:58:11  <Brianetta> 0^0 = 1
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00:58:17  <Brianetta> try it on your calculatrix
00:58:21  <Eddi|zuHause> no, it is not
00:58:31  <Ailure> hmm
00:58:32  <Sacro> MA Error :(
00:58:39  <Brianetta> Try it on a cheaper one (:
00:58:40  <Ailure> I thought X^0 was always 1
00:58:43  <Sacro> i think...
00:58:47  <Eddi|zuHause> lim[x->0]0^x = 0
00:58:59  <Ailure> and whenever I mention X
00:59:03  <Ailure> X can be any number
00:59:25  <Brianetta> Eddi's limit is true
00:59:41  <Eddi|zuHause> exactly, x^0 = 1 for ANYTHING EXCEPT X=0
00:59:41  <Brianetta> 0^x tends to 0 for small x
01:00:25  <Eddi|zuHause> and a^b = e^(b*ln(a)), so for a,b->0 you can reduce that on a 0/0 case
01:01:24  <Brianetta> 0 has no natural log
01:02:12  <Eddi|zuHause> right, but ln(b) tends to -infinity, and 1/ln(b) tends to 0
01:02:25  <Eddi|zuHause> so a/(1/ln(b)) is a 0/0 case
01:02:40  * Sacro 's head asplode
01:02:44  <Brianetta> I get you
01:02:49  * Brianetta understands
01:03:04  <Brianetta> Sacro: Have you studied limits?
01:03:12  <Eddi|zuHause> which you then usually apply the bernoulli-l'hopital rule to
01:03:16  <Sacro> Brianetta: yes, a few years ago
01:03:19  <Ailure> and what is ln shorthand for?
01:03:24  <Sacro> log naturele
01:03:26  <Brianetta> Natural log
01:03:26  <Ailure> it's in my backhead
01:03:26  <Ailure> oh
01:03:31  <Ailure> log10?
01:03:34  <Sacro> no
01:03:35  <Brianetta> log e
01:03:45  <Brianetta> log2.718281828....
01:03:46  <Eddi|zuHause> it's probably easier if you consider ln(b)/(1/a), which is inf/inf
01:03:51  <Ailure> ah
01:04:08  <Sacro> inf/inf = 1
01:04:12  <Ailure> the only log i worked with was log 2 myself due to a cmputer course but i'm well aware of others
01:04:12  <Brianetta> Sacro: Nope
01:04:21  <Eddi|zuHause> inf/inf is equivalent with 0/0
01:04:27  <Sacro> :o nullity!
01:05:03  <Eddi|zuHause> as is 0*inf (see above)
01:05:05  <Brianetta> inf/anything is inf, anything/inf tends to 0
01:05:11  <Brianetta> unless you inf/inf
01:05:22  <Ailure> I need to find that divide by zero video again
01:05:26  <Ailure> where some guy does some math homework
01:05:30  <Ailure> and does divide by zero
01:05:35  <Brianetta> Chuck Norris can divide by zero.
01:05:35  <Ailure> then screams "oh no"
01:05:39  <Ailure> and then earth explodes
01:09:20  <Brianetta> Sacro: y=2x/x²
01:09:31  <Brianetta> Sacro: Try plotting the graph of that function
01:11:05  <Sacro> grr, powertoy calc is being an arse
01:11:34  <Brianetta> Then try y=2x/(4-x²)
01:12:03  <Brianetta> The first is the same as 2/x
01:12:09  <Brianetta> tall, asymptotal
01:13:26  <Sacro> right
01:13:47  * Eddi|zuHause is trying to imagine where Brianetta is going to
01:14:51  <Eddi|zuHause> btw, how do you call the transformation from 2x/x^2 -> 2/x in english?
01:15:08  <Brianetta> cancelling
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01:15:26  <Eddi|zuHause> the german word is "kürzen", but i cannot come up with a remotely senseful translation
01:15:34  <Brianetta> to cancel
01:16:01  <Eddi|zuHause> literal translation would be "shorten" or something
01:16:11  <PandaMojo> reduce
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01:26:18  <Brianetta> Can difficulty levels be changed in multiplayer games during play?
01:27:18  <Ailure> I think you can change some settings yes
01:27:26  <Ailure> but it would change difficulty to custom
01:27:35  <Brianetta> Well, of course
01:27:36  <Ailure> I never have played a game on a preset difficulty to be honest :)
01:27:49  <Ailure> well I tried to
01:27:50  <Brianetta> but I can't find a way to change it in multiplayer
01:27:52  <Ailure> but I wind up changing osmething
01:27:54  <Ailure> oh
01:27:56  <Brianetta> dedicated server, that is
01:28:01  <Ailure> ah
01:28:06  <Ailure> then i have no idea
01:28:11  <Brianetta> I can change all patch values
01:28:32  <Brianetta> but not the difficulty settings, which are, after all, just a sort of patch-that-was-there-already
01:28:46  <Athorium> hi
01:29:02  <Ailure> heh
01:29:06  <Ailure> and Configure patches
01:29:10  <Ailure> feels like a leftover from TTDpatch
01:29:15  <Brianetta> It is
01:29:30  <Ailure> It could be renamed to something better really
01:29:39  <Ailure> Don't ask me what though
01:30:09  <Brianetta> Game options
01:30:13  <Born_Acorn> Most Games would call it.. yes.
01:30:41  <Ailure> there is a option window
01:31:03  <Ailure> hmm
01:31:14  <Ailure> advanced game options?
01:31:15  <Ailure> heh
01:31:31  <glx> Brianetta: there's no console command for difficulty settings
01:31:36  <Ailure> configure patches window isn't exactly newbie friendly
01:32:14  <roboboy> hello
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01:32:39  <roboboy> im having crahses when i try and build a ship or rv on Brianetta's standard server
01:32:52  <roboboy> they get built but i cant open them
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01:34:48  <Brianetta> None of the rest of us have problems
01:35:07  <Brianetta> LightGlobe has 9 buses, all happy
01:36:43  <orudge> Aw, my long irrelevant directmusic.txt has been removed ;)
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01:38:38  <roboboy> it is a newgrf eror reporting the sprites dont exist or something along those lines
01:38:46  <roboboy> ill crash it again
01:40:04  <orudge> Woo, yay
01:40:14  <orudge> My wagonspeedlimits + $(amount) patch works
01:40:20  <roboboy> Tried to load non existing sprite #6005 probable cause wrong/missing grf
01:40:44  <roboboy> but i have to have the right version to get on the server
01:41:04  <Rubidium> roboboy: do you have any statically loaded GRFs?
01:41:22  <roboboy> no
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01:42:05  <roboboy> i just loaded them with the gui in 0.5.0 rc1
01:42:17  <Rubidium> strange, as #6005 is somewhere in openttd.grf (I think)
01:42:45  <roboboy> i used the windows installer
01:42:55  <roboboy> that was for a ship
01:43:02  <roboboy> that crash
01:43:19  <roboboy> i can open other peoples ships and rvs fine
01:45:00  <Athorium> why tt-forums runs badly
01:45:00  <Rubidium> it is the SPR_SELL_ALL_ROADVEH sprite, does the same window for ships, planes also crash?
01:45:14  <Brianetta> Athorium: The server's building something atm
01:45:14  <Digitalfox> What exactly does in cfg file of openttd do, [newgrf-static]?? What does it differ from [newgrf] ??
01:45:24  <glx> Athorium: because of some maintenance being done on it
01:45:38  <Athorium> ahm, ok, and how many time needs?
01:45:46  <glx> a lot :)
01:45:50  <Athorium> omg
01:45:58  <Rubidium> till the RAID5 array is in-sync
01:46:05  <roboboy> ships and rvs crash, havent tried planes
01:46:19  <Athorium> I go to play TTD
01:46:36  <Rubidium> hmm, maybe openttd.grf hasn't been overwritten by the installer
01:46:41  <Rubidium> what is the size of that grf?
01:47:01  <glx> Digitalfox: the [newgrf-static] section is for grfs that are safe in MP even if others don't have them
01:47:30  <Digitalfox> So in single player, theres no need to use the static section?
01:47:45  <Rubidium> not true
01:48:10  <Athorium> Deleted: C:\OpenTTD 0.5.0 RC1\Trunk\docs\Howto_compile_lng_files_from_CLI.txt
01:48:11  <Athorium> Deleted: C:\OpenTTD 0.5.0 RC1\Trunk\docs\directmusic.txt
01:48:11  <Athorium> Added: C:\OpenTTD 0.5.0 RC1\Trunk\docs\HOWTO_compile_lang_files.txt
01:48:12  <Athorium> ¿?
01:48:27  <Rubidium> those static GRFs are loaded in the intro game and could also be character sprites for non-latin characters
01:48:50  <glx> Athorium: don't worry :)
01:48:59  <Rubidium> Athorium: huh, you checked out the whole SVN tree?
01:49:11  <Brianetta> Athorium: Case change.  SVN doesn't understand that files can be moved or renamed.
01:49:26  <Athorium> oh, ok,ok
01:49:41  <Athorium>  Rubidium I looking the log in every revision
01:49:45  <roboboy> openttd.grf is 28k
01:49:56  <Rubidium> mine is 30426 bytes
01:50:18  <glx> roboboy: can you make the md5sum of it ?
01:50:41  <roboboy> how do I do that
01:50:53  <glx> what's your os?
01:50:59  <roboboy> windowsxp
01:51:02  <Rubidium> Athorium: I'm only wondered by the fact that you've checked out trunk under a 'openttd 0.5.0-rc1' directory
01:51:27  <Rubidium> glx/roboboy: it might be easier to compare the size in bytes first
01:52:05  <Athorium> u mean folders "branches, compile_farm, etc?"
01:52:27  <roboboy> 28,153 bytes
01:52:48  <roboboy> to be exact
01:53:04  <glx> so your openttd.grf is too small
01:54:49  <Rubidium> Athorium: you have those folder too? You're really eager on getting your harddrive full :)
01:55:06  <Athorium> nono, I no have those installed it
01:55:20  <Athorium> I only takes a look on SVN server
01:55:21  <roboboy> so how do i get the one i need
01:55:42  <Rubidium> you can get it from the 0.5.0-rc1 zip on
01:56:20  <Athorium> I no have any openttd.grf file :S
01:56:35  <glx> Athorium: look in data
01:56:41  <Rubidium> Athorium: as long as you know that trunk games are not compatible with release games, it's all ok :)
01:56:41  <Athorium> oops
01:57:30  <Athorium> my openTTD.grf ocupes 28.672 bytes
01:57:37  <Athorium> but because I have my HD compressed
01:57:57  <Athorium> without compressing ocupes 30.426 bytes
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01:58:24  <Athorium>  Rubidium I have a complete OpenTTD build
01:58:31  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:58:48  <Athorium> with OpenTTD 0.4.8 + Nightly + MiniIN + Multipatch (Quark's)
01:59:18  <Athorium> I only need a fu***** feature: "Townbuildnoroads"
01:59:29  <Athorium> to make my 'own' city
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02:02:26  <Athorium> omg
02:03:37  <Athorium> uhhmm... what is nigh? is the same thas near?
02:05:25  <roboboy> i just got the openttd.grf from the windows zip and it still crashed
02:07:28  <roboboy> i think ive fixed it
02:08:40  <Athorium> nightly version add any feature?
02:10:27  <glx> in recent nightlies (post 0.5.0-RC) you can build bridge over a lot of things
02:10:44  <Athorium> uhmmm, interesting
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02:11:14  <Athorium> u know any method to merge my 0.5.0 RC1 and nightly without need to modificate file by file?
02:11:45  <glx> why not just use the nightly ?
02:12:23  <Athorium> because I have a lot of patches added
02:12:32  <Athorium> old nightly, miniIN, multipatch...
02:13:05  <Athorium> the nightly have OpenTTD 0.5.0 RC1 + nightly?
02:13:07  <Rubidium> then you cannot merge it, unless you really know the saveload mechanism of OpenTTD & MiniIN
02:13:52  <glx> yeah MiniIN saveload stuff is a hell
02:14:40  <Athorium> but what happened with MiniIN? definitively is died?
02:15:00  <Rubidium> yup
02:15:12  <Digitalfox> Athorium-> i guess so!! Just one more update to 0.5
02:15:35  <Athorium> :( miniIN did it a lot of nice features...
02:15:57  <Rubidium> which basically means that MiniIN only gets some bugfixes
02:16:39  <glx> and maybe new user patches but no feature from current trunk
02:17:20  <Athorium> yeah... but very usefuls...
02:18:09  <Rubidium> but there is always to possibility that somebody else steps in and maintains the MiniIN
02:18:25  <Digitalfox> In my opinion to show some recognize, The trunk should add most of the patches of Mini to show how important it was, not all but some with are very good.. My 5 cents only :)
02:19:14  <glx> nobody said MiniIN was a step before inclusion in trunk
02:19:46  <Digitalfox> I know glx.. But it has some nice features, with are very good to add to trunk.. :)
02:19:59  <glx> give me some example :)
02:21:55  <Digitalfox> This could just be a silly one, but one i like a lot.. Building Banks..
02:22:32  <Digitalfox> Maybe for many it's not important, but for that have a lot of towns and only 2% with banks is great
02:28:57  <Digitalfox> Diagonal Level Crossings is another i love ( i know it's planned for the trunk )Ž
02:29:22  <Digitalfox> And Sacro's Daylength patch is another one..
02:29:29  <Sacro> someone called?
02:29:45  <Digitalfox> :)
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02:31:21  <Digitalfox> Sacro, do you know if ther is any intencion of adding your patch to trunk.. :|
02:31:30  <Athorium> why my trunk files ocupes more bytes than nightly build? :S
02:34:18  <Digitalfox> Got to go.. Good dnight!!
02:35:31  <Athorium> what is 'nigh'?
02:35:44  <glx> !whatis nigh
02:35:49  <roboboy> openttd just randomly crashed
02:36:22  <Athorium> what could say with 'nigh'?
02:36:40  <Sacro> Digitalfox: ive no idea
02:36:43  <Athorium> near? end?
02:36:52  <Sacro> Athorium: yes
02:36:56  <Sacro> as in "the end is nigh"
02:36:56  <Athorium> ok
02:37:06  <Athorium> nigh = near?
02:37:12  <roboboy> im posting a crash report
02:37:41  <Digitalfox> What?? :| I was just saying good night!!
02:37:50  <Digitalfox> Whatever.. Good bye
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02:42:55  <Brianetta> I do NOT understand the UDP mechanism by which web sites can get info on a server.
02:43:21  <Brianetta> I'm trying to reverse engineer it, but it's proving a headache
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02:43:28  <Brianetta> If only the source code had comments
02:49:36  <glx> why not look in svn:// ?
02:50:11  <Athorium> okwhat are "branches" folder?
02:50:22  <Athorium> and compile_farm
02:50:49  <glx> branches are for big feature developement like newhouses
02:51:19  <Athorium> but, newhouses works?
02:51:36  <glx> it's still WIP but it's usable
02:51:53  <Athorium> well! downloading... :P
02:51:58  <Athorium> and compile_farm?
02:52:11  <glx> you don't need compile_farm :)
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02:54:07  <Athorium> and tag?
02:54:42  <glx> tag contains the releases
02:55:33  <Athorium> ok
02:55:50  <Athorium> and for example if I would include newhouses to my openttd, how can I merge it?
02:56:43  <roboboy> i keep getting crashes when Brianetta's server autosaves
02:59:10  <Athorium> If I download "newhouses" and I for example would to download PBS I can't merge it? only replaces?
02:59:33  <Sacro> download
02:59:37  <Sacro> patch
02:59:38  <Sacro> merge
02:59:52  <Athorium> ?
02:59:57  <Athorium> how?
03:00:32  <Sacro> its 3am
03:00:38  <glx> you need to use svn merge but I don't recommand to try to merge pbs and newhouses
03:00:54  <Athorium> why?
03:01:03  <glx> will contain an awful amount of conflicts
03:01:32  <Athorium> I sayed this to say something, can be PBS or another....
03:01:40  <Athorium> but how can I merge it directly?
03:01:50  <Athorium> or I need to download in other folder, make a patch .diff and patch it?
03:02:18  <glx> I think there's a merge options in your tortoisesvn
03:02:36  <Athorium> in "online" no :S
03:03:08  <Athorium> only say merge... but says merge with trunk revision to other revision :S
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03:11:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> i do not think the daylength patch in its current form is going anywhere near trunk
03:18:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> !calc 11188.5/60
03:18:57  <_42_> Eddi|zuHause2: 186.4750000000;
03:19:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> !calc 11188.5/3600
03:19:07  <_42_> Eddi|zuHause2: 3.1079166666;
03:29:49  <SGulsetg>
03:29:54  <SGulsetg> what do you think?
03:32:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> what is "Language: 0" supposed to mean?
03:33:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> and the date does not have a great format either
03:36:02  <SGulsetg> ah i know
03:36:05  <SGulsetg> it return 0 for all
03:36:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, sure, but you should replace that by a proper string
03:37:35  <SGulsetg> Yes i know
03:37:37  <SGulsetg> im on to it
03:38:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> i propose: "Language: any"
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03:57:08  <Born_Acorn> Wow. Darkvater, you didn't have give Sirkoz an excuse to implode. D:
03:57:10  <SpComb> Logs:
03:57:10  <Born_Acorn> !logs
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04:03:04  <Born_Acorn> s/have/half
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04:05:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> do i need to be able to understand that phrase?
04:06:21  *** inv`ThK is now known as Athorium
04:06:53  <Athorium> someone can make a GRF of my train?
04:07:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> you should ask that again at a time where there's anyone awake
04:08:00  <Athorium> ghihi
04:08:07  <Athorium> u know how to make a grf?
04:08:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> no
04:08:23  <Athorium>  Born_Acorn
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04:12:59  <Born_Acorn> I don't, no.
04:13:12  <Born_Acorn> I only draw squiggles on paint
04:13:48  <Born_Acorn> Eddi|zuHause2, basically, Darkvater's slightly abrupt post gave a reason for Sirkoz to get angry.
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04:20:10  <Athorium> I need a grf coder :(
04:22:07  <Athorium> uhm
04:22:24  <Athorium> u know what command I need to extract a grf?
04:25:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> grfcodec --help
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05:08:59  <roboboy> openttd is just cycling through the music and not keeping the title music for the title
05:52:02  <roboboy> i think i found a bug
05:52:27  <roboboy> my planes cc isnt changing properly in 0.5.0 rc1
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06:30:33  <tormentum> question for the c/c++ programmers out here
06:30:35  <tormentum> *there
06:30:59  <tormentum> i need to connect to a telnet server from within a c program... is there a library that handles this sort of thing?
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06:32:47  <ln-> the C library and BSD sockets
06:32:56  <ln-> and there's no such thing as c/c++.
06:36:53  <tormentum> c or c++ then... lol
06:37:05  <tormentum> just listing them more than anything
06:37:29  <tormentum> and thanks btw... i'll peruse my c lib reference manual
06:37:34  <tormentum> see what i can dig up
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06:50:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> !calc 23*10^9/4096
06:50:23  <_42_> Eddi|zuHause2: 5615234.3750000000;
06:51:56  <peter1138> !calc 2^24
06:51:57  <_42_> peter1138: 16777216;
06:52:09  <peter1138> that's my sprite limit currently
06:52:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> now go find that many sprites ;)
06:53:35  <peter1138> :D
06:53:56  <peter1138> i've got up to 23k so far
06:55:03  <peter1138> they even work
06:56:54  <Born_Acorn> peter1138!
06:56:59  <Born_Acorn> newbuffers!
06:57:18  <peter1138> newsprlimit!
06:57:25  <Born_Acorn> !calc 3/0
06:57:25  <peter1138> and newvar45 o_O
06:57:25  <_42_> Born_Acorn: Runtime error (func=(main), adr=5): Divide by zero;
06:57:29  <Born_Acorn> Boom
06:58:15  <Born_Acorn> peter1138, SirkoZ disliked you!
06:58:20  <Born_Acorn> *dislikes
06:58:28  <peter1138> i know
06:59:19  <peter1138> but he's a knobber
06:59:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> SirkoZ appears to dislike anyone right now... from what i just read on the forum
06:59:22  <peter1138> and i don't care
06:59:32  <Born_Acorn> :O
06:59:39  <Born_Acorn> Knobber!
06:59:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> which is better 'anyone' or 'everyone'?
07:00:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> there must be rules when to use what, i just do not remember them
07:04:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> computers are a strange kind of people... either they are bored, because you cannot input data fast enough, or you are bored, because they cannot process the data fast enough
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07:50:08  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7606 /trunk/newgrf_station.c: -Codechange: [NewStations] Add support for variables 45 and 65.
07:50:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> two at the same time! :)
07:50:59  <peter1138>
07:51:03  <Rubidium> peter1138: you've not listened to the person who said those variables are missing :)
07:51:17  <peter1138> hmm?
07:51:55  <Rubidium> the Sprite Limit Increase is, according to the author of the post, the top priority :)
07:52:01  <peter1138> ohh
07:52:12  <peter1138> but that can't be backported to 0.5.0
07:52:19  <Rubidium> true
07:52:20  <peter1138> that little 'fix' possibly can....
07:52:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> since when does 'top priority' mean 'to be done first'?
07:52:52  <peter1138> besides, it's 634KB
07:52:59  <peter1138> it's like starting DOS with no drivers
07:54:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> usually 'top priority' means 'pushed way far back because if it was not very complicated, it would already be done'
07:54:29  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause2: i've done it
07:54:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, but not commited ;)
07:54:54  <peter1138> i suppose 634KB wouldn't be my biggest commit
07:55:05  <peter1138> that was the utf8 language file changes...
07:55:10  <Rubidium> yeah :)
07:55:31  <peter1138> about the only part of this patch that can be split off is the spritecache pool change
07:55:56  <Rubidium> would still make the main patch > 600 kB, right?
07:56:05  <peter1138> yes, that bit's 8KB
07:56:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> so you have a 600kB atomic change, what exactly is the problem?
07:57:07  <peter1138> well
07:57:14  <peter1138> i suppose i could either branch it
07:57:32  <peter1138> where it'll get no testing, fester for a few months, then i can complain when someone else merges it
07:57:35  <peter1138> or
07:57:36  <peter1138> (cough)
07:57:54  <peter1138> it can go in trunk, get tested, anything wrong fixed, or reverted if it's really bad...
07:58:54  <Rubidium> lets (possibly) unstablize trunk :)
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07:59:32  <peter1138> 522KB of the changes are in table/
07:59:52  <peter1138> that still leaves 100KB
08:00:20  <Rubidium> got a url to the patch?
08:01:09  * peter1138 uploads
08:01:29  <peter1138> on 33k ;(
08:01:38  <peter1138> i did gzip it though
08:01:42  <peter1138>
08:03:24  <Rubidium> those uint32 -> SpriteID conversion can be done seperately
08:03:32  <peter1138> true
08:03:34  <peter1138> heee
08:03:44  <peter1138> just read sirkoz's post in the miniin thread
08:03:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't think i have a lot to say, but i'd say trunk is over-stable anyway
08:04:12  <Rubidium> why doesn't DrawSprite use SpriteIDs?
08:04:18  <peter1138> good question
08:04:36  <peter1138> i assumed at that point that they weren't available everywhere
08:04:39  <peter1138> but they are
08:04:43  <Rubidium> or maybe SpriteID and PalSpriteID
08:05:25  <peter1138> shouldn't be in functions.h anyway....
08:05:27  <Rubidium> what is the difference between those two?
08:05:35  <peter1138> at the moment, not much
08:05:47  <peter1138> SpriteID is supposed to be just a sprite
08:05:55  <peter1138> PalSpriteID is supposed to be a sprite with palette map
08:06:04  <peter1138> but they're usually just mingled together
08:06:11  <peter1138> along with int32/uint32
08:07:09  <Rubidium> maybe it is an idea to get rid of PalSpriteID?
08:08:22  * roboboy watches you guys talk interesting jabber that he doesnt understand
08:08:24  <Rubidium> ah, the PalSpriteID is now a struct
08:11:33  <peter1138> yeah
08:11:37  <Rubidium> you could do some uint -> SpriteID conversions in viewport.h
08:11:39  <peter1138> two SpriteIDs, heh
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08:12:07  <roboboy> hello Alltaken
08:12:28  <peter1138> hmm, yeah
08:13:46  <Alltaken> hi
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08:35:33  <Wolf01> hello
08:50:48  <Biff> good morning
08:51:35  <Biff> its so cold :/
08:58:17  * roboboy thinks we need some form of presignals for rv stations with multiple bays
08:59:37  <Wolf01> we need to extend the rv like trains, with semaphores at crossings, highways and diagonal roads
08:59:39  <roboboy> probably in the form of trafic lights, infact someone drew trafic lights ages ago
09:10:48  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7607 /trunk/ (bridge_map.h tunnel_map.h tunnelbridge_cmd.c): -Codechange: remove direct map accesses for snow/desert on tunnels and bridges.
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09:27:44  <Darkvater> morning
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09:29:19  <Celestar> hi
09:29:43  <Celestar> back in 5
09:30:22  <peter1138> hi
09:31:06  <peter1138> Darkvater: sirkoz has excelled :D
09:31:28  <Noldo> peter1138: something new?
09:31:38  <peter1138> not since early this morning
09:32:07  <Celestar> peter1138: ?
09:32:14  <Noldo> in the same thread?
09:32:17  <peter1138> hmm?
09:32:47  <Rubidium> Noldo: in MiniIN is nigh & OpenTTD 0.5.0-rc1
09:33:25  <Celestar> what did he say? :P
09:33:26  <Rubidium> morning Darkvater & Celestar :)
09:34:16  <Rubidium> translated freely: that RichK67 and all trunk developers are losers
09:34:31  <Celestar> svn diff -r 7606:7607
09:34:34  <Celestar> er ..
09:34:36  <Celestar> gnah
09:36:58  <Darkvater> peter1138: wait, lemme read it ^^
09:37:26  <Darkvater> dammit Rubidium you spoiled the fun
09:37:56  <Darkvater> Celestar: svn diff -c 7607
09:38:29  <Darkvater>
09:38:31  <Darkvater> sweeet
09:39:12  <roboboy> some of it is partly true, but that is comming from someone who barely plays openttd
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09:39:22  <MeusH> hey
09:39:27  <roboboy> hello
09:39:37  <Darkvater> hehe sirkoz made it to the private area ^^'
09:39:38  <Wolf01> hey MeusH
09:40:49  <Celestar> Darkvater: ?
09:41:04  <Darkvater> lol
09:41:05  <SpComb> Logs:
09:41:05  <MeusH> !logs
09:41:07  <Darkvater> "Now read this you pompous fraud - the most part of bettering the OTTD - are the peoples patches, not your code rearanging."
09:41:12  <Celestar> Darkvater: those buildings are nice
09:41:13  <Darkvater> awesome
09:41:25  <Celestar> Darkvater: any chance to implement them?
09:41:35  <Celestar> Darkvater: that said who?
09:41:39  <Rubidium> now 0.5 is branched, shall I commit (removal of direct trackbit map-accesses)?
09:41:40  * roboboy wonders how many ttdpatch matching patches there are out there for open
09:41:45  <Darkvater> Celestar: that's not up to us, but to newgrf coders
09:41:53  <Celestar> gnah
09:42:05  <Celestar> root@celestar: modprobe grammar lang=english
09:42:24  <peter1138> hmm?
09:42:34  <Celestar> Darkvater: they look awesome and I think they should be implemented asap :P
09:42:37  <Celestar> peter1138: ?
09:42:38  <peter1138> ah
09:42:42  <peter1138> buildings
09:42:49  <peter1138> ikea
09:42:49  <peter1138> lol
09:42:52  <Celestar> peter1138: what do we need for this? :)
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09:43:00  <Rubidium> and removal of some useless code for removing the signals, as it is done in CMD_REMOVE_SINGLE_RAIL too
09:43:14  <Celestar> Rubidium: let me see, k?
09:43:14  <peter1138> Celestar: newhouses
09:43:18  <peter1138> Celestar: which is mostly there
09:43:25  <peter1138> just needs merging...
09:43:56  <Darkvater> peter1138: your ubercool reply in that
09:44:22  <Celestar> Darkvater: give link to ubercool reply?
09:44:47  <Darkvater>
09:44:50  * Celestar punches blathijs
09:45:34  <blathijs> hmm?
09:45:44  <Celestar> fischer@galadriel:[/nfs/home/fischer/openttd]> svn blame trunk/rail_cmd.c | grep fuck 3369   matthijs               /* XXX: Why the fuck do we remove these thow signals first? */
09:46:00  <Celestar> we should not use "fuck" in the code :P
09:46:16  <peter1138> we reserve that for talking about bjarni's coding style
09:46:34  <Darkvater> *evil*
09:46:45  <MeusH> what mess is he talking about?
09:46:58  <Darkvater> what's 'thow'? Unless it's supposed to mean 'two'
09:47:16  <peter1138> MeusH: the sirkoz scandal
09:47:16  <blathijs> I think I misspelled two there, yes
09:47:41  <MeusH> peter1138, has everything been removed, or it is still there so I can see it?
09:47:48  <peter1138> still there
09:47:58  <peter1138> we've just been talking about them...
09:48:14  <Celestar> Rubidium: whe will you commit that diff?
09:48:23  <Darkvater> blathijs: nice spelling ;p
09:48:39  <Rubidium> if it is OK for everyone in a few minutes
09:48:49  <Darkvater> ask sirkoz
09:48:53  *** Frostregen [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:48:53  <blathijs> "I've got another suggestion. Could there be a feature that automatically kicks and bans any user that uses above feature to send PM's to all OpenTTD developers at the same time? Thanks!"
09:48:59  <Celestar> Rubidium: what was the reason for removing the signals first? maybe to update the signals around?
09:49:08  *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
09:51:06  <Born_Acorn> There should be a million angry replies by the end of the day to "the sirkoz scandal". :p
09:51:26  <Rubidium> Celestar: I would say it is r1 (i.e. I've got no clue), but the signals should be updated when the track is removed
09:51:52  <Rubidium> (and are updated if a single track is removed)
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09:52:51  * RayChaz prods Born_Acorn
09:52:55  <Darkvater> RayChaz: under cover? ;)
09:53:05  * RayChaz nods vigerously and looks enthused
09:53:09  <RayChaz> incase that angry dude is here :D
09:53:13  <Born_Acorn> Nah
09:53:15  <RayChaz> how is Darkvater?
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09:53:29  <Darkvater> I've never seen him on IRC
09:53:34  * RayChaz gossips about everyone thats not here
09:53:44  <Born_Acorn> He wouldn't come here. It's not #miniin. :p
09:53:45  <Darkvater> it's always good to wake up to some flaming
09:53:54  <Darkvater> makes your day all worth again
09:53:55  <RayChaz> heh
09:53:57  <RayChaz> exactly
09:53:59  <roboboy> heh
09:54:03  <RayChaz> it's like "ahh, such a cool community"
09:54:26  * RayChaz waves at steven_
09:54:32  <steven_> hi
09:54:38  <RayChaz> are you steven_h?
09:54:45  <steven_> no
09:54:48  <RayChaz> oh okay
09:54:50  <Born_Acorn> The ident gives it away.
09:54:51  <RayChaz> nvm then
09:54:51  <Born_Acorn> :p
09:54:55  <RayChaz> heh
09:55:03  * RayChaz prods marcf
09:56:02  * RayChaz dances... LOUDLY
09:56:35  <Darkvater> peter1138: nice and quick fix for oztransltd's station :)
09:56:43  <Born_Acorn> Although the "here here" sockpuppet was in here last night. D:
09:56:45  <RayChaz> I reckon, aye
09:56:49  <RayChaz> peter1138 is awesome
09:57:04  <RayChaz> heh, that guy had no guts to say anything
09:57:08  <Born_Acorn> He is the Gift from the NewGRF gods!
09:57:13  <RayChaz> he just sees someone making waves and jumps on the bandwagon
09:57:22  <Naksu> what the hell is the "sirkoz scandal"?
09:57:22  <RayChaz> Born_Acorn, I wasn't aware he was a child of patchman
09:57:27  <RayChaz> it's PORN
09:57:28  <Naksu> internet drama?
09:57:29  <Born_Acorn> (as it says in the credits)
09:57:30  <RayChaz> really bad porn
09:57:33  <RayChaz> without much porn at all
09:57:39  <RayChaz> infact, no porn involved
09:57:40  <peter1138> pong?
09:57:41  <peter1138> oh, heh
09:57:53  <peter1138> Darkvater: it's not really a "fix" as such, but suitable for 0.5.0?
09:58:21  <Darkvater> I think it most likely is. We've said newstations support is done; would be a shame if parts wer emissing
09:58:30  <Naksu> sounds like this
09:59:00  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:59:06  <Born_Acorn> The SirkoZ Scandal is the TTF equivilent to the Watergate Scandal
09:59:18  <Born_Acorn> It'll make Richard Nixon resign.
09:59:19  <Naksu> (whatever you do don't look at the pics)
10:00:04  <steven_> so who's going to resign now?
10:00:19  <peter1138> Born_Acorn: except sirkoz is pretty much nobody ;)
10:00:30  <Born_Acorn> Lies
10:00:31  <peter1138> Darkvater: well, i've not done triggers or animation yet either
10:00:36  <Born_Acorn> He is a god amongst men.
10:00:42  <peter1138> i'll sort them out, but that won't be backportable
10:00:48  <Born_Acorn> Didn't you see that he made more diesel fumes?
10:00:57  <peter1138> Born_Acorn: that was based on a patch of mine...
10:00:59  <Born_Acorn> I mean, that truly betters any 0.5.0 feature.
10:01:05  <peter1138> (iirc)
10:01:13  <Darkvater> peter1138: ah animation...afaik no station set yet has animation
10:01:23  <Darkvater> except for MB's hidden stations
10:01:27  <peter1138> yeah
10:01:28  <peter1138> only them
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10:01:30  <peter1138> which i don't have
10:01:36  <peter1138> so... i can't even test it
10:01:41  <Born_Acorn> Ask nicely!
10:01:43  <Darkvater> ask it for testing ;p
10:02:07  <Born_Acorn> Attach an official OpenTTD officially looking letterhead!
10:02:16  <Born_Acorn> and attach your CV!
10:02:30  <Born_Acorn> It can't possibly fail.
10:02:46  <Darkvater> some monopoly money on the side ^^
10:04:37  <Darkvater> RayChaz: did I tell you yet I love your Australian screenies?
10:04:41  <RayChaz> :D
10:04:45  <RayChaz> I should post more :D
10:04:51  <RayChaz> thanks Darkvater
10:05:00  <RayChaz> do you like the UKRS ones too, or just the Aussie ones?
10:05:06  <steven_> RayChaz your disgiuse isnt working :p
10:05:08  <Darkvater> now if you only would get SAC into making tropical trees ^^
10:05:37  <Born_Acorn> peter1138, use a simple ruse like you want to use them for "testing" to develop animation support.
10:05:49  <Born_Acorn> Then play away! Mwahahahaha!
10:06:08  <RayChaz> marcf, it was never meant to work
10:06:09  <RayChaz> :D
10:06:11  <RayChaz> it was a joke :D
10:06:13  *** RayChaz is now known as Raichase
10:06:14  *** steven_ is now known as marcf
10:06:17  * Darkvater likes'em all
10:06:22  * marcf throws mask awa
10:06:23  <marcf> away
10:07:37  * Darkvater looks at breakfast
10:07:38  <Raichase> throw'd!
10:07:39  <Raichase> :D
10:07:41  <Raichase> BREAKFAST!
10:07:43  * Raichase has none
10:07:47  * Raichase goes to get supper
10:07:57  <Celestar> hey Raichase
10:07:58  <Darkvater> breakfast is better!
10:08:06  <Darkvater> it means you can always have suppor afterwards
10:08:15  <MeusH> bon apetit mr :p
10:08:48  <MeusH> <Born_Acorn> The SirkoZ Scandal is the TTF equivilent to the Watergate Scandal <-- SirkoZgate :o
10:10:23  <Raichase> hey Celestar :D
10:10:24  <roboboy> hehe
10:10:30  * Raichase likes this chan
10:10:35  <Raichase> so many people I know from TTF here
10:10:54  * roboboy attacks SirkoZ with an automatic bollard
10:10:58  <Raichase> :O
10:11:02  <peter1138> caution
10:11:04  <peter1138> bollard rising
10:11:08  <Raichase> LMAO
10:11:30  <roboboy> i got the idea from Youtube
10:12:54  <peter1138> $ gunzip sprlimit5.diff.gz
10:12:54  <peter1138> gunzip: sprlimit5.diff.gz: Resource temporarily unavailable
10:12:56  <peter1138> o_O
10:13:13  <Celestar> wtf?
10:13:36  <peter1138> hmm, worked a second time...
10:13:42  <CIA-1> celestar * r7608 /branches/custombridgeheads/ (28 files in 5 dirs): [cbh] - Merge with trunk r7593:7607 because I need 7607 here
10:13:50  <Celestar> well it DID say temporarily :P
10:14:46  <peter1138> this is true
10:15:09  <Celestar> bah vim rocks
10:15:14  <Biff> Oo
10:15:18  <Biff> dont use gunzip :p
10:15:21  <Celestar> try to find another tool where you can do "d%"
10:15:32  <Noldo> peter1138: process limit?
10:15:40  <peter1138> "bah" vim rocks? hmm
10:15:53  <peter1138> Biff: use what, then?
10:16:05  <Biff> peter1138: zless, or zcat :p
10:16:06  <Celestar> peter1138: sorry that "bah" ws in the buffer :P
10:16:15  <Biff> since you will either read it or patch it
10:16:23  <peter1138> Biff: not useful if i want the file to be uncompressed...
10:16:33  <Biff> saves you perhaps like a second. and you use less disk-space
10:16:42  <peter1138> right
10:16:42  <Biff> probably a few kB
10:16:43  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7609 /trunk/rail_cmd.c: -Codechange: remove some direct map accesses to m5 and some unneeded signal removal code in ClearTileTrack as it is done in CmdRemoveSingleRail too, which is called for every removed trackbit.
10:16:53  <peter1138> but i can't pipe it into tortoisesvn in windows, can i...
10:16:59  <Biff> oh, windows
10:17:03  <Celestar> bah damnit I should have waited with the sync :P
10:17:08  <peter1138> samba etc
10:18:16  <MeusH> where can I find the most up-to-date documentation about free tile bytes? I'm looking for info if there's free a single byte for station tile. Is there?
10:18:48  <Celestar> MeusH: no, not at the moment. but there will most likely be
10:19:10  <MeusH> you mean bytes, not the documentation? :)
10:19:41  <Celestar> I mean bytes
10:19:43  <Celestar> the doc is ther
10:19:55  <Celestar> docs/landscape.html and docs/landscape_grid.html
10:20:17  <Darkvater> so.
10:20:28  <Darkvater> what about a makefilerewrite merge?
10:20:41  <Darkvater> anyone know how much havoc it breaks on a modified wc?
10:20:48  <Biff> wc?
10:20:53  <peter1138> working copy
10:20:55  <Biff> oh
10:21:07  <peter1138> dbg: [sprite] Increased spritecache capacity to 20480 items
10:21:08  <peter1138> :D
10:21:27  * roboboy is having 2cc troubles with av8 on Brianetta's 0.5.0 server
10:21:32  <Rubidium> Darkvater: I think it breaks a lot :(
10:21:42  <roboboy> everything but planes is working properly
10:21:44  <Darkvater> hmm
10:22:07  <Darkvater> I think I'll be safe though if I have a modified wc somewhere, update another wc then just copy over the source fiels
10:22:20  <Darkvater> we should really merge it :)
10:22:25  <Darkvater> of course if peter1138 agrees
10:22:26  <roboboy> hm i just fixed it
10:22:30  <Rubidium> just svn diff it and then patch it back :)
10:22:32  <peter1138> Celestar might not
10:22:36  <Darkvater> he's the one with the dial-up :)
10:22:42  <peter1138> hehe
10:22:51  <peter1138> roboboy: any particular plane or all?
10:22:51  <peter1138> oh
10:22:53  <peter1138> what was it?
10:23:24  <Darkvater> the second question is about RC2? When?
10:23:31  <peter1138> (it's always worked for me...)
10:23:35  <peter1138> soon
10:23:37  <Rubidium> today?
10:23:51  <guru3> 0.5.0 :o
10:23:51  <roboboy> its fixed
10:23:53  <Darkvater> eg a release-stopper imho is some flag, or cl-switch that forces loading a savegame even without the proper newgrfs
10:24:06  <Darkvater> KUDr seems pretty upset without it ;p
10:24:23  <Darkvater> and thirdly... KUDr where's that face patch? I thingie
10:24:28  <Darkvater> jez it
10:24:30  <Rubidium> true, but I would like to have some testing of the network code change I made before 0.5.0 :)
10:24:41  <MeusH> Celestar, thanks for info
10:24:49  <Darkvater> Rubidium: ? RC2 no?
10:25:30  <Rubidium> yes, that should be done via a RC2.
10:25:50  <Darkvater> or perhaps just a silent ignore of missing newgrfs and having them show up in the list as inactive
10:25:54  <Darkvater> donnu
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10:26:23  <Rubidium> Darkvater: with the exception of multiplayer games ofcourse
10:26:44  *** GoneWacko [] has joined #openttd
10:26:44  <Darkvater> obviously :)
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10:31:12  <Wolf01> yeah, stupid city, it built a road under a bridge over a rail... so there ia s crossing under a bridge which is useless
10:31:46  <Wolf01> it only annoy me with its annoying sound
10:32:09  * Raichase chuckles
10:32:21  <Raichase> I'm sure the town thought it to be a worthwhile investment of town funds
10:32:33  <Raichase> :P
10:32:36  <Wolf01> :)
10:32:50  <roboboy> openttd is great for pax as the towns explode on you
10:33:20  <roboboy> if i was still on the ausset testing list id try it with openttd and the irish's longmap
10:33:22  <Raichase> I intentionally curtail my towns in TTDP
10:33:36  <roboboy> yeah
10:33:37  <Raichase> roboboy - I'm sure I can sneak you a copy of the ausset if you want it
10:33:45  <roboboy> i do sometimes
10:33:49  * Raichase nods
10:33:49  <roboboy> yes please
10:33:57  <Raichase> but DON'T TELL WHITEHAND
10:34:00  <peter1138> i'd like less town growth
10:34:06  <roboboy> ive got the landscape from before
10:34:08  <Raichase> peter1138 - me too
10:34:15  <roboboy> i wont tell him Raichase
10:34:19  <Raichase> I like having one big city, and the rest small-medium towns
10:34:36  <Wolf01> i trim town roads like a bonsai
10:35:00  <peter1138> bonsaitowns, hehe
10:35:05  <hylje> :o
10:35:49  <Raichase> heh
10:36:21  <Raichase> whats your username on ttf, roboboy?
10:36:34  <Raichase> is it robotboy?
10:36:34  <roboboy> robotboy
10:36:37  <Raichase> sweet
10:36:38  <Raichase> sent :D
10:36:52  <roboboy> r the popup :D
10:37:10  <roboboy> hehe i like the title
10:37:27  <Wolf01> i took half an hour to figure out what is ttf...
10:37:30  <roboboy> did whitehand ever do anything with the replys he got for testers
10:37:43  * Raichase shrugs
10:37:54  *** Bjarni [] has joined #openttd
10:37:57  *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
10:38:03  <Raichase> probably said "like him, don't like him, perhaps he will like me if I let him test, don't like him, like him, etc"
10:38:09  <Raichase> I didn't even apply and I got in :|
10:38:16  <roboboy> i replied for testing
10:38:16  <Raichase> I don't think I applied anyway
10:38:22  <SpComb> Logs:
10:38:22  <Bjarni> !logs
10:38:23  <roboboy> :(
10:38:26  <peter1138> heh
10:38:27  <roboboy> hes mean
10:38:29  <Darkvater> morning Bjarni
10:38:33  <roboboy> or can be
10:38:38  <peter1138> he said he'd put me on the list, but didn't :D
10:38:47  <Wolf01> hello Bjarni
10:38:55  <Darkvater> who are we talking about/
10:39:08  <Bjarni> hi channel
10:39:18  <Bjarni> and also hello to the people in it
10:39:25  <roboboy> whitehand
10:39:32  <Nigel_> evening Bjarni
10:40:36  <Raichase> roboboy - he's not mean, he's childish
10:40:45  <Raichase> he sides with those he believes to be popular, or powerful, or both
10:40:56  <roboboy> yeah they are better words
10:41:32  <Bjarni> heh, he never sided with me
10:41:41  <roboboy> i thought he liked my testing
10:41:49  <BFM> "Karl has sent in word of a Transformers movie of which the preview can be viewed here. "ZOMG TRANSFORMERS, ROBOTS IN DISGUISE!!1!"
10:41:51  <BFM> Heeey! That's not what my email wrote!
10:42:10  <BFM> whoops, wrong chat >_<
10:42:13  <Raichase> heh
10:42:15  <Raichase> I thought as much
10:42:50  <Bjarni> what's up with that SirkoZ guy?
10:43:11  <roboboy> you cant realy drop a tester once theyve got an old grf
10:43:55  <roboboy> unless a stable of the grf that was being tested has come out
10:45:34  <Bjarni> 	<roboboy>	you cant realy drop a tester once theyve got an old grf <-- I well, I think I would drop one, who replied that the ship repaint grf lacks dragons and monsters
10:46:22  <Raichase> but, Bjarni, it DOES lack dragons and monsters
10:46:28  * Raichase was right annoyed about that
10:46:37  <Raichase> and I think I include all devs in my rant that... blah blah blagh
10:46:38  <Raichase> :P
10:46:49  <Bjarni> well, you are right. There are none
10:46:54  <roboboy> Raichase did you get my pm
10:46:59  * Raichase nods vigerously and looks enthused
10:47:08  <Bjarni> but I consider it to be out of the scope for a repaint
10:47:15  <peter1138> bah, got to 22528 sprites
10:47:19  <peter1138> no further
10:47:22  * roboboy thinks Raichase deservs voice
10:47:26  <Raichase> why?
10:47:31  <Raichase> I rarely play OTTD
10:47:36  <Raichase> I don't know many people in the community
10:47:44  <Raichase> I respect those I know, but I don't know much about the game
10:47:45  <roboboy> yeah
10:48:04  <peter1138> not all the devs have voice ;p
10:48:09  <roboboy> but you do moderate barely
10:48:14  <roboboy> like you
10:48:20  <peter1138> mainly because some can't be bothered to register
10:48:42  *** mode/#openttd [+v peter1138] by Bjarni
10:48:46  <peter1138> :D
10:49:04  <Bjarni> that will be £2.50
10:49:08  <guru3> Oo
10:49:19  <Raichase> heh
10:49:22  <guru3> wonder if i should talk more myself
10:49:28  * Raichase doesn't know how to auth on this server
10:49:41  <guru3> it's called... nick serv
10:49:48  <roboboy> yeah
10:49:53  <Raichase> hmm?
10:49:54  <roboboy> i get confused by it
10:50:08  <roboboy> i think im identified
10:50:10  *** Purno [] has joined #openttd
10:50:21  <guru3> i'm registered, i just never get around to authing
10:50:22  *** TinoM| is now known as TinoM
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10:51:55  <pv2b> i'm getting !invalid string id 0 in GetString when starting a server after upgrading to 0.5.0-RC1 on Mac OS X. afaik i have all the required datafiles.
10:51:58  <pv2b> what might be wrong?
10:52:08  <Wolf01> again the road under the same bridge? this city have too much money to waste.. it need trimming!!!
10:52:25  <Bjarni> pv2b: ok.... what do you do to get that message?
10:52:45  <pv2b> Bjarni: just when i click on "start server" from the server browser.
10:54:25  <Celestar> guys I'll need some help with trunk/
10:54:45  <pv2b> Bjarni: nuking the openttd.conf helps
10:54:53  <Bjarni> pv2b: works for me
10:55:01  <pv2b> Bjarni: i just figured that out
10:55:06  <pv2b> Bjarni: you want the openttd.conf that triggered the bug?
10:55:17  <Bjarni> hmm
10:55:30  <Bjarni> I wouldn't know what to do with it, but maybe somebody else would
10:55:31  <pv2b> openttd.cfg rather
10:55:35  <Celestar> hmpf
10:55:44  <Celestar> we need a closer zoom level :>
10:55:58  <Wolf01> :)
10:56:10  <pv2b> Bjarni: i'll post it to flyspray then
10:56:18  <Wolf01> is what i'm saying since i'm here
10:56:43  <Celestar> because trying to fingure what kind of signal you have on an elrail that is just under an elrail bridge is kinda difficult on a 1280x1024 TFT
10:57:17  <Wolf01> i really want to help you coding but i already tried and i failed
10:57:33  <Celestar> the coding is not the problem
10:57:39  <Celestar> the problem is that you need new sprites
10:57:46  * Raichase decides to go to bed
10:57:49  <Celestar> otherwise you just have bigger pixels
10:57:53  <Celestar> and they're of no help
10:58:00  <Raichase> been a pleasure hanging out with civilised people here in #openttd
10:58:09  <Raichase> #tycoon is so bitchy and annoying lately :(
10:58:12  <Darkvater> have a nice sleep Raichase :)
10:58:13  <Raichase> thanks guys
10:58:15  <Raichase> thanks Darkvater
10:58:18  <Raichase> tata!
10:58:20  *** Raichase [] has quit [Quit: Remember kids - CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL]
10:58:24  <Darkvater> what about making a openttdpatch channel? ;p
10:58:27  <Celestar> hehe
10:58:32  <Darkvater> damn too late
10:58:56  <roboboy> there is a #openttd on quakenet
10:58:58  <Wolf01> it doesn't look so pixellated, maybe why i'm playing with ctrl+d always
10:59:27  <Wolf01> i turn it off only to use the gui
11:00:07  <Celestar> damnit is is seperate or separate?
11:00:14  <Wolf01> with the a
11:00:14  <roboboy> and there are a few #tycooners in it
11:00:55  <Rubidium> Celestar: <- for your extra 'zoom' level
11:01:04  <Wolf01> is hard to see signals under catenary instead... specially when you use the dutch catenary
11:01:20  <Wolf01> but i wrote a patch! eheh
11:01:23  <Rubidium> though it isn't a real zoom-level
11:01:58  <Celestar> Rubidium: yes .. a bit ugly,  we need sprites ...
11:02:01  <Darkvater> hmm I need a new HD
11:02:08  <Wolf01> sacro told me to move the head near the screen
11:02:31  <peter1138> hee
11:02:57  <Noldo> would it be possible to make the base sprites work like newgrfs so they could be disabled
11:03:36  <pv2b> Bjarni: it's on flyspray now, if you want to try on another platform or version
11:03:41  <pv2b> anyway, i'm off to play now :-)
11:03:43  <CIA-1> celestar * r7610 /branches/custombridgeheads/ (landscape.c tunnelbridge_cmd.c): [cbh] - Codechange: Created seperate Tile Type Procs for tunnel and bridge tiles
11:05:15  <Celestar> hmm
11:05:33  <Celestar> when I svn cp, should I commit right away or can I do local changes to the new file before committing?
11:05:49  <Darkvater> what are you planning?
11:05:50  <Rubidium> depends on what you want to do
11:05:57  <peter1138> cool, new canadian station set :D
11:06:31  <Celestar> Darkvater: still the tunnelbridge_cmd.c => tunnel_cmd.c + bridge_cmd.c procedure
11:06:49  <Darkvater> ah, well if you don't do changes, that commit won't compile
11:07:22  <Darkvater> (which is not that big of a problem)
11:07:23  <Celestar> well it would theoretically
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11:07:37  <Celestar> just don't compile either of the file
11:07:40  <Darkvater> it wouldn't cause you would have the same functions twice :)
11:07:41  <Darkvater> he
11:07:42  <Celestar> (if they're identical anyway)
11:07:54  <stillunknown> is there a gracefull way to make a train wait for an amount of time?
11:08:09  <Wolf01> yes, miniIN had it
11:08:10  <Celestar> atomic would be cp cp del commit and then local changes + commit
11:08:42  <Darkvater> I think with cp, rename, commit & changes, commit it can better be followed what has changed
11:08:58  <Celestar> .oO(the amount of air crafft in the NYC area at 6am is astounding)
11:09:04  <Celestar> Darkvater: so be it :)
11:09:10  <Wolf01> make cities stop building those stupid roads under a bridge!!!!
11:09:27  <Celestar> Wolf01: ?
11:09:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> we need something that prevents cities from building roads over certain rails
11:10:25  <Celestar> we need to forbid level crossings with maglevs altogether
11:10:31  <Celestar> because they're kinda of stupid
11:10:41  <Darkvater> we need elevated tracks!
11:10:58  <Celestar> Darkvater: did you just volunteer to code them? :)
11:11:20  <Bjarni> and we need a link between normal and elevated tracks as well
11:11:29  <Bjarni> so we can make a train use both lines
11:11:39  <Celestar> yeah
11:11:56  <peter1138> 23 grfs loaded :D
11:12:02  <peter1138> still only 22k sprites though
11:12:14  <peter1138> Celestar: there's a bug,
11:12:18  <peter1138> with the new bridges
11:12:21  <stillunknown> for a single cell repair "waypoint", what would be more realistic, stop and go immediatly for each car or stop longer for the entire train?
11:12:25  <Rubidium> peter1138: maybe you can get that new canadian set
11:12:28  <Wolf01>
11:12:54  <Bjarni> Wolf01: haha
11:13:09  <peter1138> Celestar: the game thinks the ramp is connected to the ground on both sides
11:13:15  <Bjarni> hmm, the bridge is too low for catenary
11:13:17  <Rubidium> stillunknown: stop - drive till next car - stop - drive till next car sounds nicest, but longer waiting would be easier to implement
11:13:19  <peter1138> so towns expand under the bridge
11:13:27  <peter1138> Bjarni: bridges (and tunnels) are too low for trains, even
11:13:47  <stillunknown> Rubidium: i think the other one is easier
11:13:49  <Bjarni> right
11:13:52  <stillunknown> but not sure yet
11:13:52  <Wolf01> i think what happen if a child want to touch the bridge structure to see what happen bottom
11:14:00  <Bjarni> now that you mention it, I actually already knew that
11:14:00  <Wolf01> steel bridge + catenary
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11:14:47  <Bjarni> Wolf01: then they put up those isolation plates to be sure... we should implement those eventually
11:14:53  <Bjarni> but it's an eyecandy thing
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11:15:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> we need higher bridges first
11:15:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> and then prevent 1-level-bridges over anything that is not flat
11:16:13  <stillunknown> is anything maintenance related stored per wagon?
11:16:29  <Bjarni> stillunknown: I don't think so
11:16:35  <Bjarni> and they don't age either
11:16:41  <peter1138> they have a build date
11:16:52  <Wolf01> Bjarni, lol, don't tell it to frost (eyecandy over tracks/things), i already suggested non uniform eyecandy and he is looking me badly
11:16:53  <peter1138> so therefore an age
11:17:28  <Bjarni> peter1138: time since build date != age
11:17:46  <Bjarni> build a vehicle and cheat the year 10 years into the future. The vehicle is still brand new
11:17:52  <stillunknown> i'm looking for something that can be reset, like repair date for the entire consist
11:17:57  <peter1138> heh
11:18:17  <Bjarni> the age var and the build date var aren't related in the core even though the user thinks that
11:19:21  <stillunknown> is anyone opposed to storing the last maintenance date in all cars, as opposed to just the first?
11:20:10  <Bjarni> what good would it do?
11:20:36  <stillunknown> i'm trying to make a ride and stop depot, that stop for each car (very short time)
11:20:43  <stillunknown> i need some info that the car is done
11:20:51  <Bjarni> if we only take the front one into account and it will be the front until it's inside a depot and then it would not matter because it's in a depot and the service date is renewed
11:21:39  <peter1138> well
11:21:44  <peter1138> i dunno about wagons
11:21:53  <peter1138> but engines should be updated, i think
11:22:08  <Bjarni> stillunknown: about the one vehicle/time issue. I wondered about this for filling coal onto trains. Make a one tile station and then make trains move slowly past it until filled
11:22:24  <Bjarni> like in real life
11:22:31  <peter1138> yeah, gradual loading is good for passengers, but not really for freight
11:22:49  <stillunknown> Bjarni: how would this be implemented?
11:23:06  <Bjarni> I don't know.... yet
11:23:39  <Bjarni> but since you got an idea on how to stop for each unit, you might have an idea
11:23:56  <stillunknown> not suitable for your approach
11:24:02  <Bjarni> okš
11:24:23  <roboboy> peter1138 one thing i dont like about you 2cc gui is the tick boxes, i think they are too small
11:24:25  <stillunknown> your's is the prettier way, just don't how to do it :-(
11:24:38  <stillunknown> *yours
11:26:00  <peter1138> roboboy: you don't have to click exactly on them :)
11:26:31  <roboboy> ok
11:26:52  <Wolf01> look in the station code, i think is the same to limit the train speed through a tile
11:26:59  <roboboy> i would make them a tiny bit larger though
11:27:30  * peter1138 ponders increasing the spritegroup pool block size
11:27:38  <peter1138> currently it's 16 items in a block
11:27:47  <peter1138> i have 18864 items allocated...
11:28:42  <CIA-1> miham * r7611 /trunk/lang/ (american.txt french.txt portuguese.txt):
11:28:42  <CIA-1> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-12-29 12:28:05
11:28:42  <CIA-1> american - 2 fixed by WhiteRabbit (2)
11:28:42  <CIA-1> french - 2 fixed by glx (2)
11:28:42  <CIA-1> portuguese - 2 fixed by izhirahider (2)
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11:30:08  <pv2b> hm. i see desyncing problems haven't gone away :-/ anything a server or client can do to stop incessant desyncing?
11:30:30  <hylje> save-restart-load the server
11:30:37  <pv2b> tried that
11:31:25  <Rubidium> pv2b: what version are you running?
11:32:01  <Rubidium> have you compiled it yourself? If so, with MSVC?
11:32:18  <Rubidium> are there any NewGRFs loaded?
11:32:42  <pv2b> 0.5-RC1
11:32:46  <pv2b> no newgrf's loaded on either end
11:32:51  <pv2b> i'm on the mac os x version, he's on the windows version
11:33:05  <pv2b> the network temp files have been nuked on both ends
11:33:14  <pv2b> we're testing a new scenario we've made
11:33:20  <pv2b> at a size of 1024x1024
11:33:29  <Rubidium> is the Windows version self-compiled?
11:33:54  <pv2b> no
11:34:22  <Rubidium> can you DCC me the scenario?
11:34:25  <pv2b> sure
11:35:08  *** Tobin [] has joined #openttd
11:35:28  <pv2b> you can join the server in progress
11:35:39  <pv2b> i'm running theserver now, pv2b (private) i think it was called
11:35:50  <pv2b> i'm sending you the password in pm. maybe you can see if y ou disconnect all the time too...
11:38:09  <peter1138> Bjarni: descend
11:38:30  <Bjarni> ?
11:39:36  <Wolf01> what about a feature which allow to terraform a tile (limited to foundations) which has something on it, like buildings, roads...?
11:39:53  <Darkvater> autoslope?
11:40:14  <Wolf01> yeah
11:42:48  <roboboy> yeah
11:43:02  <roboboy> havent there been bugs that allowed it partialy
11:44:22  <Darkvater> ye, took me quite a while to get those out :)
11:45:21  <Darkvater> it only worked in about 10% of the cases so was clearly a bug
11:45:38  * roboboy gets on brianetta's server
11:45:46  <Wolf01> just make it work in the other 90%
11:46:29  <roboboy> i had a horible time this morning geting the right grfs for Brianetta's server
11:46:42  <roboboy> the problem was the checksums
11:47:27  <roboboy> is it possible to make it impossible to add a grf with a different grfid but same filename to the cfg with the window
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11:51:04  <peter1138> Bjarni: "i'm not going to decent ..."
11:51:41  <peter1138> roboboy: why?
11:51:47  <peter1138> roboboy: your grf config is ignored for network games
11:52:24  <peter1138> roboboy: and, i've been looking at doing autoslope too...
11:52:43  <roboboy> so you only have to have the grf in your folder for a network game?
11:52:47  <peter1138> yes
11:53:00  <roboboy> cool
11:53:12  <peter1138> filename is ignored
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11:55:22  <hylje> how hard would an automagical grf download be
11:55:43  <peter1138> fairly
11:55:48  <peter1138> and there's the license problems
11:55:56  <peter1138> however
11:56:10  <peter1138> grfs are listed on
11:56:19  <peter1138> and there's a search link on the info pages
11:58:02  <roboboy> cools
11:58:11  <peter1138> (not that it helps much when grf authors either don't bother putting their grfs on grfcrawler, or remove old versions)
11:59:35  <roboboy> yeah
11:59:47  <roboboy> all the main grfs should be there though
12:03:36  <CIA-1> celestar * r7612 /branches/custombridgeheads/ (Makefile bridge_cmd.c tunnel_cmd.c tunnelbridge_cmd.c): [cbh] Copied tunnelbridge_cmd.c to tunnel_cmd.c and bridge_cmd.c. Removed tunnelbridge_cmd.c
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12:07:28  <stillunknown> reliability, what kind of unit does that have?
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12:08:22  <Darkvater> %
12:08:32  <Celestar> a stupid one :P
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12:18:03  <peter1138> hm
12:18:32  * peter1138 wonders if he should benchmark the spritecache pool
12:18:48  <CIA-1> celestar * r7613 /branches/custombridgeheads/ (Makefile bridge_cmd.c rail_cmd.c tunnel_cmd.c): [cbh] - Codechange: Removed tunnel-specific functions from bridge_cmd.c and bridge-specific functions from tunnel_cmd.c
12:18:58  <Celestar> oo kkk
12:19:10  <peter1138> and rail_cmd.c? ;p
12:19:30  <Celestar> peter1138: DoConvertTunnelBridgeRail => DoConvertBridgeRail + DoConvertTunnelRail :P
12:19:35  <peter1138> ah
12:19:54  <Celestar> now I need to move bits around in the map array.
12:19:55  <Celestar> :S
12:20:03  <peter1138> woo
12:20:31  <Celestar> peter1138: I need your opinion on this ..
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12:21:34  <Celestar> where should I move m5 bits 0 and 1?
12:21:40  <Celestar> or do you not care?
12:22:12  <Bjarni> hmm
12:22:24  <Bjarni> what happened to the map array rewrite thing?
12:22:29  <Bjarni> it should help in cases like this
12:22:38  <Celestar> it is very easy to do the rewriting
12:22:46  <Celestar> yet some thought need to be put in where to move stuff :)
12:23:04  <Celestar> peter1138: m4 bits 6 and 7 ok with you?
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12:23:12  <Rubidium> Celestar: those bits as in the entrance direction?
12:23:17  <Celestar> Rubidium: yes.
12:23:23  <Celestar> I want them away from where they are now
12:23:34  <Celestar> and if possible away from m5 in general
12:24:07  <Celestar> hm .. m2 14 and 15 might be even better
12:24:18  <Celestar> (we can still move that around later, it costs nothing inside a branch)
12:24:38  <Celestar> or m2 8..9
12:24:49  <Bjarni> well, it would be way easier if we placed everything in a struct. Then it would be clear were stuff is written and from a codewise view, we would not care WHERE it's stored. Only the actual map accessor and save/load would need to know that
12:25:04  <Rubidium> or somewhere im m4?
12:25:23  <Celestar> Rubidium: m4 5..6 for example?
12:25:26  <Rubidium> (according to the grid only bit 7 is used of m4)
12:25:42  <Rubidium> or m3 4..7 are empty too
12:26:01  <Rubidium> then you can move m4:7 to m3
12:26:04  <Celestar> Rubidium: it should be empty in MP_RAILWAY as well :)
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12:26:31  <Rubidium> ah, then m4 would be OK
12:26:37  <Celestar> ok, will do
12:28:04  <Celestar> ok bits moved \o/
12:28:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> <roboboy> i had a horible time this morning geting the right grfs for Brianetta's server <- didn't he say he'd put a .zip with all necessary files up?
12:28:07  * Celestar praises the map accessors
12:28:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> this grammar looks not very english...
12:28:50  <roboboy> not tha i ould find
12:29:04  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause2: that's always a nice info to get AFTER you reinvented the wheel :P
12:29:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> the way is the goal ;)
12:29:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> this sounds so ugly in english...
12:30:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> may i cast a vote against english as "world language", it is totally weird
12:30:48  <Bjarni> you want Chinese instead?
12:30:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> we should all speek swaheli
12:31:13  <Celestar> well just because those yanks didn'T manage to vote for german :P
12:31:21  <Bjarni> wee shoult al speek beter
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12:31:34  <Celestar> l3ts sp34k 1337
12:31:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, bjani put a ban on 1337
12:32:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> +r
12:32:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> or possibly i should just sleep more
12:32:57  <peter1138> hmm
12:32:57  * Bjarni sets mode +b *!*
12:33:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> but then, who'd tell the nightcrawlers to ask again at a reasonable time
12:33:12  <Bjarni> no weird speaking in here
12:33:42  * Bjarni sets mode +b *!*@*.de
12:33:45  <CIA-1> celestar * r7614 /branches/custombridgeheads/ (bridge_map.h openttd.c): [cbh] - Codechange: Moved the DiagDirection of the bridge head from m5 bits 0..1 to m4 bits 5..6
12:34:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... i'm afraid of rebooting, i fear i totally screwed up my computer
12:34:12  <Bjarni> one fails to tell what language to use and one can't tell my name.... what a bunch of losers in that country
12:34:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> luckily i don't even have a .de domain ;)
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12:35:06  * Bjarni sets mode +b *!*@*.net
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12:35:12  <Bjarni> that should do it
12:35:16  <hylje> *!*@* rather
12:35:23  <Bjarni> no
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12:35:36  <Bjarni> I need to ensure that I can stay and ban people
12:35:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> damn, i got a ban from the one guy that means it
12:35:59  <Noldo> Bjarni: that's no problem, just don't quit
12:36:08  <Bjarni> can't
12:36:24  <Bjarni> stupid assignment needs me to reboot once in a while
12:36:31  <Bjarni> dualboot thing
12:37:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's time to get a proper and fast virtual windows...
12:38:23  <Bjarni> I wondered about that, but...
12:39:28  <Bjarni> MS gave me XP for free, so it's a free and legal solution that I'm using. If I'm going to do something with more than one OS at a time, I would either have to pay or pirate something to get it working good enough
12:39:39  <Bjarni> if at all
12:39:52  <Bjarni> since the issue is to call some hardware
12:40:29  <Prof_Frink> Get another computer?
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12:41:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> i got told that the new intel processors can run an unmodified windows as virtual os
12:41:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> with xen
12:42:26  <Bjarni> Prof_Frink: how will that work with the "keep it free and legal" idea?
12:43:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm feeling lucky... brb (i hope)
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12:43:21  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Skip.
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12:46:02  <CIA-1> celestar * r7615 /branches/custombridgeheads/docs/ (landscape.html landscape_grid.html): [cbh] - Doc: Updated the documentation for map array
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12:46:32  <Celestar> so ..
12:46:35  <peter1138> hmm?
12:46:38  <peter1138> is it ready?
12:46:43  <Celestar> peter1138: well I'm getting there.
12:46:49  <Celestar> m5 is free for MP_RAILWAY_BRIDGE
12:46:54  <Celestar> now I'll put the trackbits there.
12:46:58  <Noldo> are the tasks in flyspray marked due in 0.5 still planned to be rady for 0.5?
12:47:00  <Celestar> and we should be going :)
12:47:13  <Celestar> and work on the pathfinders and stuff :P
12:47:21  <Celestar> peter1138: any idea on how to do this best? :P
12:47:26  <peter1138> yes
12:47:29  <peter1138> let you get on with it
12:47:34  <Celestar> ^^
12:47:43  * Celestar regards this as a challenge
12:47:49  <Celestar> but I first need to fix a samba problem
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12:50:45  <SpComb> Logs:
12:50:45  <Digitalfox> !logs
12:55:12  <Celestar> why it is that with every .h file change you have to recompile the whole damn thing :P
12:55:19  <peter1138> heh
12:55:30  <Wolf01> not with all .h files
12:55:37  <Rubidium> because for _some_ reason openttd.h or so includes it
12:55:39  <Celestar> but rail_map.h is such a file ^^
12:55:40  <Rubidium> or players.h
12:56:40  <Wolf01> i always do little modifications.. but when i must modify variables.h i put my hands in the hairs
12:58:19  <Bjarni> Celestar: you know, the makefile supports multiple processes. You just need to activate that yourself if you want to use more than one core
12:58:31  <Rubidium> Celestar: <- that idea would, most likely, solve a lot of those problems
12:58:40  <Bjarni> and setting the debug flag helps as well
13:00:30  <Celestar> Bjarni: I have 1 CPU
13:00:54  <Celestar> Rubidium: I'll read it in like 15 minutes
13:02:25  <peter1138> hmm
13:02:50  * peter1138 wonders if tron's replace-name-array-with-char*-in-structs idea is feasible
13:03:17  <Rubidium> for what?
13:03:27  <peter1138> removing the name array limits
13:04:04  <Rubidium> ah
13:07:12  <peter1138> hmm, can i make diff only patch one file?
13:07:23  * Rubidium doesn't like the industry animation... the *_MINE_TOWER animations are not (completely) performed within AnimateTile, but also via some other mechanism; if I move the animation state from m1 -> m3 it does not work as it did before (very short animations, like 2 sprite changes)
13:07:25  <Celestar> wow
13:07:26  <Celestar> it works
13:07:38  <Rubidium> peter1138: manually edit the diff is one option
13:07:45  <peter1138> Rubidium: it's my 600KB diff :P
13:07:45  <Celestar> MP_RAILWAY_BRIDGE uses the same GTTS as MP_RAILWAY \o/
13:08:34  <Noldo> GTTS?
13:08:45  <Rubidium> GetTileTrackStatus?
13:08:46  <Celestar> GetTileTrackStatus
13:09:03  <Celestar> the place where all the magic takes place
13:09:12  <Noldo> happens
13:09:12  <peter1138> tortoise lets me do it :/
13:09:40  <Celestar> so
13:10:16  <peter1138> heh
13:10:24  <peter1138> so i used tortoise to make a smaller patch
13:10:25  <peter1138> tum te tum
13:10:27  <Celestar> ^^
13:11:55  <peter1138> any idea how to fix the roads creeping under bridges?
13:13:19  <peter1138> hmm, there are some signal bugs too
13:13:53  <Celestar> man
13:14:07  <Celestar> I wish i could change a tile in-game
13:15:12  <peter1138>
13:15:13  <Rubidium> just pause in the debugger :)
13:15:26  <peter1138> suspect it's a gtts-related thing
13:15:35  <peter1138> same thing causes the town to build roads under there
13:15:55  <peter1138> in that screenshot, it only happens if the train is on the bridge head
13:16:09  <Rubidium> and set the tile information manually :)
13:17:35  <Wolf01> aha again that bug
13:18:03  <peter1138> iirc, it's a pain to fix
13:18:09  <Celestar> peter1138: will you investigate it, or should I do it on the weekend?
13:18:18  <peter1138> cos gtts can no concept of height or slopes
13:18:18  <Celestar> it is a faulty z coordinate somewhere
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13:23:10  <Celestar> hr hr
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13:26:05  <peter1138> hmm?
13:31:33  <Celestar> peter1138: are you investigating that GTTS problem?
13:31:37  <peter1138> no
13:32:16  <Celestar> it is interesting, as I cannot always reproduce it
13:33:04  <Celestar> peter1138: it appears to happen only if you place that last bit of track (right beneath the ramp) while a train is on the bridge
13:33:55  <Celestar> I need our master debugger, KUDr :P
13:34:09  <KUDr> what?
13:34:37  <peter1138> Celestar: it also happens if a train goes through the signal while a train is on the bridge head
13:34:42  <Celestar>
13:34:48  <Tuzlo> has anyone had PBS working on a track
13:34:50  <Celestar> peter1138: yes, appears that too
13:35:18  <KUDr> Celestar: signaling problem?
13:35:26  <peter1138> not a signalling problem
13:35:31  <Celestar> it's a GTTS problem
13:35:36  <Celestar> GetTileTrackStatus
13:35:42  <Tuzlo> I'm doin what the wiki says to do but when I Ctrl click to make the PBS signals, the 4th click takes me back to the original signal
13:35:53  <Celestar> Tuzlo: no PBS in trunk at the moment
13:35:54  <peter1138> the wiki is obviously wrong
13:35:58  <peter1138> we don't have pbs
13:36:09  <Tuzlo> Celestar no wonder
13:36:13  <Darkvater> hmm ok tortoisesvn obviously doesn't like utf8 languages diffs
13:36:33  <Tuzlo> how far off is PBS?
13:37:02  <KUDr> Darkvater: missing BOM
13:37:22  <Darkvater> KUDr: tortoisevsvn is stupid, it created the diff itself
13:37:46  <KUDr> true, but it works for files with BOM
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13:38:43  <KUDr> i don't remember what exactly it was but we had an issue with tortoise and non-BOM-unicode files at work
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13:39:52  <KUDr> Celestar: so what is the problem?
13:40:21  <KUDr> train continues under bridge instead of on ramp?
13:40:32  <Celestar> no, the signal should not be red
13:40:37  <Celestar> the train does not warp
13:40:45  <Celestar> because VehicleEnterTile prevents that
13:40:57  <KUDr> aha, so signalling problem
13:41:01  <Celestar> peter1138: maybe it is time to make GTTS 3d aware?
13:41:03  <KUDr> OPF should be fixed
13:41:17  <peter1138> Celestar: my old diagbridge patch was massive due to that...
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13:41:25  <peter1138> Celestar: but it will need to be at some point...
13:42:22  <Celestar> it should be possible
13:42:28  <KUDr> Celestar: we had the same issue with tunnels
13:42:47  <Celestar> I can vaguely remember
13:42:57  <KUDr> it should not be a problem to fix it
13:43:39  <Celestar> I can't dig into it now :(
13:43:45  <Celestar> I have a PDC to fix :S
13:43:55  <KUDr> PDC?
13:44:38  <Celestar> Primary Domain Controller
13:44:53  <KUDr> huh you are working?
13:45:25  <Celestar> yes
13:46:03  <Celestar> oh btw, peter1138
13:47:05  <Rubidium> nice!
13:47:29  <Celestar> the most difficult thing will be to rewrite the interface I guess
13:47:34  <peter1138> yum
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13:50:41  <peter1138> hmm
13:50:53  <peter1138> who wants to write some documentation on how the new newgrf settings works?
13:51:02  <Prof_Frink> Born_Acorn.
13:51:02  * Celestar whistles
13:51:19  <peter1138> a lot of people are trying to add all grfs to the game config and don't realise that savegames/network games ignore the list
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13:54:11  <Celestar> is anyone here a bit familar with the UI?
13:55:58  <KUDr> Celestar: i can't repro the GTTS bug. What do i need to do?
13:56:26  <Celestar> ask peter1138 :)
13:57:21  <MeusH> peter1138, will it be possible to disable a newgrf, but not delete from the list?
13:57:47  <Celestar> KUDr: 14:34 <+peter1138> Celestar: it also happens if a train goes through the signal while a train is on the bridge head
13:58:06  <KUDr> yes, now i crashed the trains!
13:58:22  <KUDr> one under bridge, another one on the ramp
13:58:44  <KUDr> it smells like big issue
13:59:10  <Celestar> I can remember having that fixed once :o
13:59:40  <Eddi|zuHause> blame tron ;)
14:00:53  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7616 /trunk/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
14:00:53  <CIA-1> -Cleanup:
14:00:53  <CIA-1>  -(re)set _rename_[id/what] to -1 to catch invalid calls (main_gui.c)
14:00:53  <CIA-1>  -Only invalidate widget of pause/ff instead of whole window (main_gui.c)
14:00:53  <CIA-1>  -Remove numbering from WE_ and WC_ as it's not needed, also remove
14:00:55  <CIA-1>  non-existing windowclasses (window.h, openttd.h)
14:00:55  <CIA-1>  -Give names to some of the enums (window.h)
14:02:28  <glx> [14:59:16] <Celestar> I can remember having that fixed once :o <-- I remember that too :)
14:03:30  <Celestar> .v->u.rail.track = (DiagDirToAxis(dir) == AXIS_X ? 1 : 2); <= how do I tell the train here to select a track (using the pathfinder?)
14:03:50  <Celestar> glx: ok so I'm not nuts.
14:04:40  <Celestar> KUDr: I'm digging some changelogs. I _know_ I have fixed that issue
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14:05:13  <KUDr> Celestar: i cant repro the crash but now i can repro the signal problem
14:05:17  <Celestar> !openttd commit 5070
14:05:23  <KUDr> i am really confused from it
14:05:36  <_42_> Commit by celestar :: r5070 /trunk/ (33 files in 4 dirs) (2006-06-02 13:05:41 UTC)
14:05:38  <_42_> Merged the bridge branch
14:05:40  <_42_> -Feature: Bridges can now be placed above:
14:05:43  <_42_> 	Any railway track combination (excluding depots and waypoints)
14:05:45  <_42_> 	Any road combination (excluding depots)
14:05:47  <_42_> 	Clear tiles (duh), including fields
14:05:49  <_42_> (...) (truncated)
14:06:28  *** Wolfy [] has quit [Quit: I'm gone, bye bye :)]
14:06:38  <Eddi|zuHause> it is so funny how my client interprets TABs (^I) as 'italic' marker
14:08:37  <Celestar> ok guys
14:09:04  * Celestar introduces some VERY high load onto the server
14:11:33  *** gass [~any@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:12:35  <Celestar> KUDr: I'm checking out revision 5070 and see if the problem was there
14:13:13  *** Sacro [Ben@adsl-83-100-200-208.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
14:14:36  <Celestar> but this takes time
14:15:01  <KUDr> OK, i will look at the code
14:15:06  <KUDr> in OPF
14:15:33  <Celestar> peter1138: only problem is, the trains refuse to use custombridgehead
14:15:39  <Celestar> :P
14:15:54  <Celestar> it always drives straight on, not matter whether a track is there or not :P
14:20:02  <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like a missing call to the pathfinder
14:20:23  <Celestar> yeah
14:20:27  <Celestar> not only
14:20:59  <Eddi|zuHause> i have good faith in you for solving that ;)
14:21:59  <MeusH> possibly train thinks it's still on a bridge and doesn't even check for the other tracks
14:22:06  <MeusH> and goes forwards, like on bridge
14:22:31  <Celestar> KUDr: ok the problem existed in 5070
14:22:47  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: thats, but probaby not today
14:22:50  <Celestar> thanks*
14:22:52  <KUDr> and before?
14:23:12  <Celestar> KUDr: I'll dig
14:24:24  <Celestar> KUDr: but if it was in 5070, I don't have high hopes that it was really fixed
14:24:47  <KUDr> crash or signal?
14:25:08  <KUDr> because i fixed the signal problem only for tunnels
14:25:21  <KUDr> i had no idea how bridges work
14:25:32  <Celestar> KUDr: now, bridges and tunnels work identically :)
14:25:41  <KUDr> i know
14:25:49  <KUDr> so i am looking at it
14:26:27  <Celestar> custombridgeheads]> svn diff | wc -l
14:26:27  <Celestar> 117
14:26:33  <MeusH> hmm
14:26:37  <MeusH> OpenTTD crashes
14:26:38  <Celestar> 117 lines to enable custombridgeheads in the drawing code
14:26:53  <MeusH> is OpenTTD capable of opening TT (original) savegames, or only TTD?
14:27:01  <Celestar> MeusH: no original afaik
14:27:10  <Celestar> MeusH: did it crash upon load?
14:27:12  <MeusH> aww a pity
14:27:14  <MeusH> yep
14:27:29  <MeusH> I wanted to feel like eight year old boy :)
14:27:40  <Celestar> peter1138: KUDr Darkvater we should have a more graceful way to say "cannot load game"
14:27:47  <Eddi|zuHause> there was supposed to be a TT->TTD converter, but i did not have a lot of success when i tried it
14:27:51  <peter1138> it does... some times
14:27:52  <Celestar> lol
14:27:52  <MeusH> maybye there are some converters TTO->TTD so that I can try the TTD one in OpenTTD?
14:28:01  <pv2b> if ttd can open tt savegames
14:28:09  <KUDr> Celestar: agree
14:28:10  <pv2b> you can resave it in ttd and pen it in openttd
14:28:16  <peter1138> but can it?
14:28:23  <pv2b> i don't know
14:28:25  <Eddi|zuHause> it cannot
14:28:40  <Eddi|zuHause> if it could, openttd would be able, too
14:28:51  <pv2b> not neccessarilly.
14:29:02  <Celestar> <= comments please
14:29:10  <MeusH> so I'll just look for converter
14:29:49  <Brianetta> My 0.5.0rc1 server is desyncing people
14:30:44  <Rubidium> I'm researching a desync of pv2b, it might be related
14:31:14  <Celestar> ok guys, I'm off to weekend
14:31:20  <Celestar> I might drop in tomorrow and/or sunday
14:31:29  <pv2b> Celestar: have a nice weekend and happy new year.
14:31:34  <Celestar> you too pv2b
14:31:51  <Brianetta> 11:48 <sarah_pilot> roboboy has joined the game
14:31:51  <Brianetta> 11:48 <sarah_pilot> roboboy has left the game (desync error)
14:31:51  <Brianetta> 13:33 <sarah_pilot> dragon has joined the game
14:31:51  <Brianetta> 13:33 <sarah_pilot> dragon has left the game (desync error)
14:31:51  <Brianetta> 14:16 <sarah_pilot> MrCucumberhead has joined the game
14:31:54  <Brianetta> 14:17 <sarah_pilot> MrCucumberhead has left the game (desync error)
14:31:57  <Celestar> peter1138: KUDr I'll talk to you tomorrow I guess because I might need some assitance with custombridgeheads
14:32:12  <Brianetta> 14:30 <sarah_pilot> Brianetta has joined the game
14:32:12  <KUDr> ok
14:32:18  <Brianetta> 14:32 <sarah_pilot> Brianetta has left the game (desync error)
14:32:25  <KUDr> i seem to found the signal problem
14:32:31  <Brianetta> This release candidate is, I fear, not ready.
14:32:33  <Celestar> KUDr: you have?
14:32:41  <KUDr> i seem to
14:32:42  <pv2b> Brianetta: yeah, i was having similar problems when hosting
14:32:42  <Celestar> Brianetta: that's why it is a release candidate and not a release :)
14:32:58  <KUDr> i must try to add some code fragment and test it
14:33:02  <Celestar> why are desyncs that often?
14:33:09  <Brianetta> Celestar: I feel it's important to let people *know* it's not ready, because it is still, after all, a candidate.
14:33:20  <Brianetta> I don't know
14:33:24  <pv2b> Celestar: i'm having similar trouble on my end. Rubidium is working on it
14:33:27  <Brianetta> The game's been running a while
14:33:31  <Celestar> Brianetta: ah I see
14:33:41  <Brianetta> I'll try turning off YAPF
14:33:42  <pv2b> we've got a way to reproduce at least one desync case
14:33:50  <Celestar> 1 > 0
14:33:50  <Brianetta> since that cause desyncs in a recent nightly
14:33:51  <pv2b> in my case, disabling YAPF didn't help
14:33:55  <Brianetta> oh
14:34:03  <pv2b> you might have a different bug though
14:34:14  <pv2b> do you have autosaves for your server?
14:37:11  <Brianetta> no autosaves
14:37:18  <pv2b> hm. ok.
14:37:32  <Celestar> ok guys
14:37:33  <Celestar> see you
14:37:36  <pv2b> cya
14:37:44  <Eddi|zuHause> bäh, hard disk is a week old, and it already complains about being 99% full...
14:38:04  <glx> what is its capacity?
14:38:11  <Eddi|zuHause> 400GB
14:38:15  <glx> wow :)
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14:43:19  <Athorium> hi
14:43:37  <Athorium> hey, someone can make a grf of my train?
14:43:53  <Darkvater> Brianetta: sadly there has never been a version without desyncs :(
14:44:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i have some kind of deja vu
14:44:23  <Eddi|zuHause> deja vus happen when they change something in the matrix
14:44:28  <Eddi|zuHause> we are all doomed
14:44:41  <Ailure> I haxxored it
14:44:42  * Eddi|zuHause runs away screaming
14:44:45  <Ailure> just added some things
14:45:23  <Ailure> nothing to worry about
14:46:59  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... how do i write accents without dead keys?
14:47:11  <peter1138> hmmz
14:47:17  *** Zavior [] has quit [Quit: ( :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: )]
14:48:48  <Tuzlo> here's a question, does a train cost as much to run when it's idle (waiting on a full load) as when it's running?
14:49:03  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
14:49:11  <Eddi|zuHause> only stopped trains cost nothing
14:49:20  <Bjarni> running costs are the same, nomatter what action the vehicle might do
14:49:53  <Eddi|zuHause> might be a task for rebalancing, though
14:50:01  <Tuzlo> are there plans to adjust this, realistically any vehicle costs more to run at speed/overspeed than idling
14:50:19  <Tuzlo> ah
14:50:48  <Eddi|zuHause> rebalancing is planned for 0.6, i believe
14:50:57  <Brianetta> Darkvater: My server is currently desyncing everybody
14:51:02  <Brianetta> without exception
14:51:13  <Brianetta> I imagine a reload of the saved game will correct this
14:51:19  <Brianetta> but that loses all the company passwords
14:51:28  <peter1138> how old is the game?
14:51:34  <Brianetta> Since last night
14:51:44  <Brianetta> it's at 1967 I think
14:51:46  <Brianetta> from 1920
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14:52:35  <Tuzlo> Eddi|zuHause: anywhere to read what might be upcoming in newer releases?
14:52:46  <Brianetta> Akalamanaia is on there at the moment, but he hasn't desynced
14:52:53  <Brianetta> which is unusual
14:53:06  <Eddi|zuHause> there used to be a roadmap on the wiki, but it might not be hugely up-to-date
14:53:51  <Brianetta> OK, *I* got desynced when I joined to spectate
14:53:55  <Brianetta> Akalamanaia is still on there
14:54:31  <Tuzlo> found it
14:54:32  <Tuzlo>  thx
14:54:51  <Darkvater> I imagina you only get desync'd if you join, if you were already online for a long-long time you woudln't desync
14:55:01  <peter1138> *sigh*
14:55:07  <Brianetta> 14:41 <sarah_pilot> Akalamanaia has joined the game
14:55:10  <peter1138> i was investigating it when my adsl died...
14:55:11  <Brianetta> He only justy joined
14:55:39  <Brianetta> This isn't behaving like the YAPF desync problem
14:56:01  <Rubidium> Brianetta: is he using a PPC build?
14:56:19  <Tuzlo> I dont see PBS on any of the upcoming releases, is it way in the future?
14:56:21  <Rubidium> or rather any non-x86 build
14:56:36  <Brianetta> He's on Windoes
14:56:51  <Brianetta> Server is on Linux, as am I when I play
14:56:56  <Eddi|zuHause> Tuzlo: there is a new concept of signalling (which will natively support PBS) being worked on
14:57:13  *** Digitalfox [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:57:18  <Eddi|zuHause> but it's all very abstract right now
14:57:22  <Tuzlo> k
14:57:42  <Darkvater> he, I need a TON of newgrfs ;p
14:57:52  <Tuzlo> a week ago, I only used one train per track, now I love the signalling, once I figured it out
14:58:06  <Tuzlo> PBS looks better as Ive messed up some junctions
14:58:17  <Darkvater> now where is this zip file with newgrfs?
14:58:25  <Eddi|zuHause> Tuzlo: if you feel experimental, try the MiniIN, it has the old attempt of PBS
14:58:29  <Tuzlo> lemme know if you find one Darkvater
14:58:38  <Brianetta> There isn't one yet, but I'll just put one together for you
14:58:45  <Tuzlo> Eddi|zuHause hmmm, I have a copy of that somewhere
14:58:50  <Darkvater> I would be much obliged
14:58:58  <Darkvater> it sucks lots of grfs are not on grfcrawler
14:59:03  <Eddi|zuHause> but it has ... issues ...
14:59:30  <Eddi|zuHause> it works fine, if you keep a list of things not to do
14:59:55  <Brianetta> zipping...
14:59:56  <KUDr> Celestar: ping
15:00:34  <Brianetta> Darkvater:
15:00:36  <Darkvater> it'd be cool if Brianetta's server could use edit&continue; then I'd run ReloadNewGRFData on it to see if that helps
15:00:40  <Darkvater> great :)
15:01:12  <glx> KUDr: celestar is gone :)
15:01:18  <KUDr> i see
15:01:20  <KUDr> thanks
15:01:21  *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@] has joined #openttd
15:02:15  *** mosfet [] has joined #openttd
15:02:54  <Darkvater> ok, I'm in
15:02:55  <MeusH> Bjarni: policemen caught a pole making vodka from barbecue kindling :p
15:02:57  <Brianetta> Darkvater: If you want rcon, you can have it
15:03:24  <Darkvater> gaaah
15:03:29  <Darkvater> I set debug_level to 4 :(
15:03:43  <Darkvater> jezus christ
15:04:11  <peter1138> heh
15:04:22  <Darkvater> god, what was I spammed with?
15:04:35  <peter1138> who rewrote the debug stuff?
15:04:41  <peter1138> oh yes :D
15:04:49  <Darkvater> npf stuff
15:04:52  <Darkvater> jezus
15:06:50  <Darkvater> the game is a bit laggy but I'm not getting desyncd
15:07:00  <Darkvater> although I am downloading at 500KB/s atm, so it's probably me
15:07:16  <Brianetta> Akalamanaia said it was laggy for him
15:07:46  <Darkvater> he, NPF's ship PF can't find route to docks ;p
15:08:26  <Brianetta> I'm not using a release build (this is from SVN sources) so if you want a patch applying and the game reloadingm taht can
15:08:30  <Brianetta> be done
15:08:35  <Brianetta> so you can write lgs, whatever
15:08:43  <Darkvater> Brianetta: but you are using 0.5.0RC1 no?
15:08:50  <Brianetta> Yes, compiled from the tag
15:09:17  <Darkvater> well; it doesn't desync
15:09:22  <Brianetta> So it seems
15:09:28  <Brianetta> but it did
15:09:28  <Darkvater> I think I must join ALL MP games ;p
15:09:31  <peter1138> what options were changed? heh
15:09:38  <Brianetta> peter1138: I didn't change any
15:10:06  <Darkvater> hmm, wasn't the plan to remove NPF?
15:10:09  <peter1138> oook
15:10:20  <peter1138> p'rap
15:10:22  <peter1138> s
15:10:32  <peter1138> who still uses it? heh
15:10:48  <Darkvater> Brianetta is ;p
15:10:52  <Brianetta> Only the miniin players, and they aren't going to play 0.5
15:10:57  <Brianetta> I am?
15:11:03  <Darkvater> yep, it's on
15:11:06  <Brianetta> ew
15:11:07  <Brianetta> ew
15:11:08  <Darkvater> for ships I suppose
15:11:09  <Brianetta> urgh
15:11:14  <Darkvater> the worse kind
15:11:37  <peter1138> so if we ditch npf
15:11:43  <peter1138> yapf can have all the fancy features
15:11:58  <peter1138> and the old pf can be the basic, no-frills system
15:12:15  <Darkvater> yea
15:12:22  <peter1138> or we try to implement all features for both pfs
15:12:25  <peter1138> s/both/all/
15:12:27  <peter1138> which is a pita
15:12:44  <Brianetta> Current value for 'yapf.ship_use_yapf' is: 'on' (min: 0, max: 1)
15:12:45  <Darkvater> you can't do that, opf is not 'complete'
15:12:51  <peter1138> quite
15:13:09  <Brianetta> It was off:
15:13:10  <Brianetta> [yapf]
15:13:10  <Brianetta> ship_use_yapf = false
15:13:10  <Brianetta> road_use_yapf = true
15:13:10  <Brianetta> rail_use_yapf = true
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15:13:33  <Darkvater> so best is, want basic behaviour: use opf, want whatever you fancy (speed signs, pbs, whatelsenot) use yapf
15:13:43  <Darkvater> although both have to work with bridges, etc.
15:13:46  <pv2b> opf? original pathfinding?
15:13:51  <Brianetta> pv2b: Yes
15:13:58  <Brianetta> well, probably NTP
15:14:10  <pv2b> normal temperature and pressure? :-)
15:14:14  <pv2b> (normal train pathfinding)
15:14:18  <Brianetta> new
15:14:23  <pv2b> ah. new.
15:14:27  <Darkvater> yeah opf would be opf and ntp for trains
15:17:48  <Darkvater> this concludes the desync-test
15:18:01  <Darkvater> weird that at one point everyone desyncs and a min later nobody
15:18:06  <Brianetta> 15:16 <sarah_pilot> Darkvater: ?????
15:18:36  <Brianetta> Darkvater: I don't have proper fonts, but autopilot doesn't care and my IRC client does (:
15:18:55  <Darkvater> I don't see anything :(
15:18:56  <Darkvater> on irc
15:18:58  <pv2b> kunimoi?
15:19:04  <hylje> Darkvater: l2utf8
15:19:14  <Darkvater> irssi?
15:19:24  <hylje> my irssi spits out ?????s
15:19:38  <pv2b> that looks like kunimoi in half-width katakana here
15:19:40  <pv2b> no idea what it means
15:19:46  <Darkvater> I just said 'hime'
15:19:54  <Darkvater> eg princess
15:20:00  <pv2b> that's not what it says though on my end
15:20:06  <Brianetta> Darkvater: If you want to knock up a patch to provide you with debug info at desyncs, feel free - I'll apply it and recompile.
15:20:31  <Darkvater> Brianetta: if I knew where to look exactly it would've been solved a long time ago :)
15:21:03  <Brianetta> Does it still just look at a sample random number?
15:21:08  <Darkvater> yes
15:21:21  <Darkvater> you don't really need anything else
15:21:23  <Brianetta> I suppose logging every use of rnd() would be over the top
15:21:51  <hylje> servers sometimes go out of sync
15:21:58  <Darkvater> there's a define RNADOM_DEBUG or something that logs every rnd() call and the function that called it
15:22:03  <hylje> and cant serve proper states to incoming clients
15:22:04  <Brianetta> hylje: They should be deterministic.
15:22:12  <hylje> thus, the clients desync soon
15:22:27  <Darkvater> doesn't always help when the actual problem happened some time ago and the desync'd random is just a symptom
15:22:31  <hylje> but if some client has been connected for a loong time, it has the same state as the server
15:22:45  <hylje> and stays
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15:22:51  <Brianetta> hylje: We have no evidence that being connected for a long time helps
15:23:02  <Brianetta> When I came on this afternoon, everybody had been desynced.
15:23:42  <peter1138> Darkvater: what say you about the sprite substitute "fix"?
15:23:49  *** MVV [~a@] has joined #openttd
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15:24:06  <Darkvater> peter1138: the '?'
15:24:10  <MeusH> goodbye
15:24:18  *** MeusH [] has quit [Quit: bye - quit]
15:24:23  <Darkvater> peter1138: looks really silly ;p
15:24:43  <Darkvater> peter1138: better than a crash I suppose...
15:25:24  <Darkvater> why is DB's set so anal in that it growls about not enough wagons, yet doesn't enforce it?
15:25:26  <peter1138> yes, the ?
15:25:37  <hylje> Brianetta: ive had it happen. i was online for some ten or so hours; other newly joined clients desynced
15:25:41  <Darkvater> cause if it would, it could be checked in the autoreplace function
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15:25:41  <hylje> Brianetta: but i stayed
15:25:49  <peter1138> Darkvater: i guess some of it pre-callback support
15:25:56  <Brianetta> hylje: When was that?
15:26:12  <hylje> Brianetta: quite some time ago, in the feeder island game / ottdcoop sb
15:26:17  <Brianetta> hylje: I ask, because that sounds like the YAPF desync bug from two weeks ago
15:26:18  <Darkvater> peter1138: doing invisible wagons doesn't help?
15:26:43  <Darkvater> peter1138: the only thing I don't like about it is a change so deep, in a place that is completely unrelated
15:26:44  <Brianetta> Ah, the #openttdcoop one was the YAPF bug
15:26:55  <Darkvater> if I remember the diff correctly
15:30:08  *** HMage [~HMage@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:30:32  <peter1138> hmm
15:30:46  <peter1138> Darkvater: the advantage there is it is only checked once
15:31:04  <peter1138> if it's outside, then we'd have to check if a sprite exists everytime it is updated
15:31:21  <peter1138> so that has the potential to be quite a drag
15:31:56  <Darkvater> where's the diff again?
15:32:48  <Athorium> hi
15:32:53  <Darkvater> hi
15:33:07  <Athorium> hey, someone can make a grf of my train?
15:34:15  <Sacro> someone can i presume
15:34:38  <Athorium> I need test my train in-game
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15:39:31  <Athorium> no ones?
15:41:23  <Darkvater> looks like not
15:43:14  <Athorium> Darkvater: you can? :D
15:43:40  <Darkvater> nice try ;)
15:43:46  <Athorium> .p please!
15:43:54  <Athorium> I need to test my train :(
15:43:58  <Sacro> Darkvater does nothing
15:44:03  <Darkvater>
15:44:04  <Athorium> I know :P
15:44:11  <Athorium> ¬¬
15:44:15  <Darkvater> isn't grfmaker out now?
15:44:20  <Darkvater> that'd be only a few clicks
15:44:36  <Sacro> dont give him the easy way
15:44:39  <Eddi|zuHause> we keep Darkvater here only to annoy SirkoZ
15:45:05  <Athorium> I don't know how to make the .nfo file!
15:45:05  <Sacro> ooh yes
15:45:09  * Sacro visits the forum
15:45:14  <Sacro> Athorium: touch filename.nfo
15:45:20  <Bjarni> <MeusH>	Bjarni: policemen caught a pole making vodka from barbecue kindling :p <-- why am I not surprised :P
15:45:33  <Sacro> you can make vodka that way?
15:45:37  <Athorium> but I don't know how to configure them
15:45:46  <Bjarni> btw a pole is a long stick while a Pole is a person... I think
15:45:53  <Darkvater> Athorium: it's in the ttdpatch wiki link I posted. A simple text file. Sorry I have no time atm
15:45:57  <Bjarni> Sacro: you better not try to do so
15:46:05  <Bjarni> it likely got sideeffects
15:46:08  <stillunknown> can i do: _date - date_of_last_service and get a number of days?
15:46:21  <Athorium> :S
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16:02:09  <FlashFF> hello peeps
16:02:59  <FlashFF> *ahem*
16:03:53  <Darkvater> hi
16:03:54  <peter1138> hmm?
16:03:56  <Darkvater> and hi egladil
16:04:03  <FlashFF> zomg!
16:04:06  <Athorium> hi
16:04:10  <Athorium> hey, one question
16:04:15  <Athorium> I need add to the same grf the passenger wagons?
16:04:40  <Darkvater> Athorium: you just want to see the thing in action, right?
16:05:07  <Darkvater> open trg1r.pcx, paste your sprites in there for some train and use that
16:05:15  <Athorium> wow
16:05:32  <Athorium> and the passenger wagons?
16:05:36  <Darkvater> OR
16:05:47  <Darkvater>
16:05:49  <Darkvater> do this
16:06:15  <Darkvater> just do EXACTLY what is in there and it'll work
16:06:27  <Darkvater> once you have coded it you just need to play with your sprites
16:08:30  <Athorium> but, I have a problem
16:08:39  <Athorium> my train have more length than "standar" trains
16:09:16  <Darkvater> in the nfo make change the width nmber
16:09:52  <Athorium> I don't know how...
16:10:00  <peter1138> it's all there
16:10:09  <peter1138> you might have to do a bit of reading...
16:10:11  <Darkvater> Athorium: PLEASE read the page
16:10:22  <Athorium> I reading it
16:10:51  <Athorium> but I don't know hex code...
16:12:04  <Darkvater> ..
16:14:53  <Bjarni> and you want to edit grf files???
16:15:27  <Bjarni> <-- go read that first
16:15:51  <Bjarni> I don't think you need to read all of it to get the idea
16:17:19  <peter1138> Bjarni: no, he (i assume) wants someone else to do it :)
16:17:23  *** Rubidium [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:17:41  <Bjarni> well, I will not do it
16:18:03  <Darkvater> Athorium: copy point 6 in the link and all you need to edit is the sprite sizes
16:18:14  <Athorium> well, the sprite size are in pixels?
16:18:19  <Darkvater> yes
16:18:46  <Athorium> 2733 data/sprites/trg1r.pcx 194 10392 01 18 8 -3 -10
16:18:54  <Athorium> I no understand this... 194 pixels? :S
16:19:05  <peter1138> that's the location of the sprite
16:19:14  <peter1138> 184x 10392y
16:19:25  <Athorium> oh
16:19:26  <peter1138> the sprite is 8px by 18px
16:19:40  <Athorium> where you see it?
16:19:51  <glx> it's written :)
16:19:55  <peter1138> well there's an 18 and an 8...
16:19:56  <Athorium> hex?
16:20:00  <peter1138> no
16:20:02  <Darkvater> Athorium: you are not reading the link I gave you
16:20:15  <Athorium>  Darkvater I looking it but too many pages opened
16:21:21  <Athorium> ahhh well
16:21:22  <Athorium> i looked it
16:21:45  <Darkvater> pretty sad that grfmaker is 2 years old and still no public download
16:22:05  *** Sacro [Ben@adsl-83-100-200-208.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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16:23:16  <Athorium>  Darkvater
16:23:26  <Athorium> the - numbers I no need to make anything?
16:23:53  <Darkvater> the negative numbers?
16:24:17  <Darkvater> you need to play with them for your train and wagons to show up correctly
16:24:29  <Darkvater> probably should leave them at 0 to start then tweak
16:24:45  <Athorium> the negative numbers what represents?
16:25:33  <Darkvater>  // Format: spritenum pcxfile xpos ypos compression ysize xsize xrel yrel
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16:26:34  <Athorium> xrel yrel?
16:26:36  <Athorium> what is this?
16:26:42  <Darkvater> RELative
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16:26:57  <glx> kind of offset
16:27:06  <Darkvater> did I not tell you to tell the page?
16:27:10  <Darkvater> Athorium:
16:27:26  <Darkvater> section Coordinates
16:27:43  <Athorium> omg
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16:30:45  <egladil> hello Darkvater (although i know i'm a bit slow) ;)
16:31:14  <Darkvater> hi Tron
16:31:20  <Bjarni> egladil: we noticed your speed long ago
16:31:31  <Bjarni> we just looked at the commit log in the 32 bit branch
16:31:33  <Bjarni> :P
16:31:38  <egladil> :p
16:32:27  <Bjarni> at this rate, we will have 32 bit graphics once the computers can't handle 2D graphics anymore because it's too outdated
16:33:54  <Tron> Darkvater: hi
16:33:55  *** Tron [] has quit []
16:34:09  <Bjarni> ...
16:34:11  <Darkvater> ok what as that?
16:34:16  <scia> hi and bye, lol :p
16:34:17  <Bjarni> quits one sec after the greeting
16:34:26  <Bjarni> new record
16:37:07  <Athorium> works!!!
16:37:07  <Athorium> but
16:37:17  <Athorium> my passenger wagons go too low
16:37:26  <Darkvater> :)
16:37:33  <Darkvater> tweak yrel
16:37:42  <Bjarni> you mean you can see the roof on the tracks?
16:37:57  <Bjarni> or they drive under the bridges instead of over them
16:38:07  <Athorium> wait 1 seg
16:39:06  <Frostregen> hmm maybe a bug? (win2k) if i start openttd from explorer (oposed to commandline) it crashes the explorer when exiting ottd (happens on 2 win2k machines here)
16:39:12  <Bjarni> ohh, that reminds me. Back in my PPC days, I had to emulate TTD, so I tried the patch and the emulator emulated bridges incorrectly. Vehicles were unable to drive on them and the followed the slope in the bridge head and then they turned around because there were no tracks/road below the bridge
16:39:25  <Bjarni> now that was an unusual emulation bug
16:39:27  <Athorium>
16:40:24  <Darkvater> Frostregen: sounds nifty
16:40:32  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7617 /trunk/rail_cmd.c: -Fix (7609): GetTrackBits only works (as intended) for plain rail tiles, so get the trackbits if it is certain it is a plain rail tile. Noticed by Tron.
16:41:04  <Darkvater> Athorium: you have bad ypos (white line below train)
16:41:13  <Athorium> how can I solve it
16:41:22  <Darkvater> fix ypos
16:41:39  <Darkvater> or perhaps ysize
16:41:43  <Athorium> yes but, how I can what's correct ypos?
16:41:57  <Athorium> and passenger wagons go too low
16:42:07  <Darkvater> open your sprite and check the _exact_ coordinates and size of your sprite
16:43:21  <Athorium> wait
16:44:07  <Athorium> well I opened trg1r.pcx
16:44:09  <Athorium> and now?
16:44:53  <Darkvater> where are your sprites?
16:45:19  <peter1138> looks like a dimension or position is wrong too
16:45:23  <peter1138> with the white line showing up
16:45:29  <Athorium> all xsize ysize are correct
16:45:49  <Athorium>  Darkvater I replaced a original train and fixed xsize ysize
16:45:57  <Darkvater> then position is wrong
16:46:08  <Athorium> problem are negative numbers?
16:46:29  <Darkvater> somebody help him please
16:46:43  <Sacro> blathijs: ping
16:47:43  <Athorium>  Darkvater I give you my pcx and nfo and you can try to solve it? and I see the result to see the "error"?
16:47:48  <Rubidium> Darkvater: what about . The next step would be to unify the industry animation state into a single variable, instead of spread over 4 places, but that change is not trivial.
16:48:43  <Darkvater> Rubidium: oh, this reminds me. How's the masterserver rewrite?
16:48:54  <Rubidium> not really took off yet
16:49:09  <Darkvater> hmm didn't you show this diff before to me Rubidium ?
16:49:15  <izhirahider> Is there a function somewhere in OpenTTD to check if a given letter is vogal or consonant?
16:49:30  <Darkvater> I didn't like it because the industry type is checked again, twice for the animation state
16:50:00  <Darkvater> but if you're unifying it...
16:50:07  <Rubidium> yes, and now I think I have a solution for that
16:50:26  <Darkvater> then I don't mind as a _temporary_ solution
16:50:27  <Darkvater> but
16:50:31  <Darkvater> +	gfx = GetIndustryGfx(tile);
16:50:31  <Darkvater> -	switch (GetIndustryGfx(tile)) {
16:50:32  <Rubidium> hmm, but maybe I it is better to make that implementation first
16:50:32  <Darkvater> +	switch (gfx) {
16:50:33  <Darkvater> ?
16:50:49  <Athorium> uhm
16:50:51  <Rubidium> gfx is used later on I think
16:50:55  <Athorium> I think that I know why this occurs
16:51:05  <blathijs> Sacro: Not time right now, gotta go shopping
16:51:07  <blathijs> Wazzup?
16:51:10  <Athorium>  Darkvater
16:51:23  <stillunknown> v->first->service_interval
16:51:25  <Darkvater> ah see it
16:51:30  <stillunknown> is this valid syntax?
16:51:37  <Athorium> I seen what occurs
16:51:43  <Darkvater> Athorium: good :)
16:51:51  <Athorium> the pantograph go up of train and games low it to the same level that other wagon
16:51:56  <Athorium> but, how can I solve it?
16:52:04  <Sacro> blathijs: segfault on Ubuntu using the deb
16:52:19  <blathijs> Sacro: that shouldn't happen. Got a backtrace?
16:52:23  <blathijs> (I'm off now, bbl)
16:52:28  <scia> long live svn ls when websvn is down :)
16:52:31  <KUDr> Darkvater: IS USING OF 'goto <label>;' prohibited?
16:52:51  <Darkvater> KUDr: with a proper reason it isn't
16:52:52  <Sacro> blathijs: not yet, but its reproducible, have fun at the shops
16:52:55  <KUDr> ok
16:53:12  <stillunknown> v->first->service_interval
16:53:16  <scia> I will try with my self compiled build and look if the behaviour is the same
16:53:19  <stillunknown> is this valid syntax?
16:53:23  <Darkvater> Athorium: promise me: if I help you with this you won't bother me anymore today?
16:53:37  <Darkvater> I can't code anything like this
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16:54:00  <Athorium> uhmmm
16:54:03  <Athorium> I try it...
16:55:18  <Darkvater> Athorium: deal :)
16:55:26  <Darkvater> send me your sprites
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16:57:16  <KUDr> peter1138: does the GTTS bug some FS number? Or who found it?
16:57:30  <peter1138> i found it
16:57:35  <peter1138> no number
16:57:38  <KUDr> ok
16:57:43  <KUDr> will commit
16:57:46  <peter1138> others have reported it though
16:57:48  <Darkvater> Athorium: hang on
16:57:54  <Athorium> I sending you..
16:57:57  <Sacro> :o he got Darkvater to work
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16:58:14  * Sacro sees a pig float past the window
16:58:17  <Darkvater> Athorium: I asked for YOUR sprites
16:58:23  <Darkvater> not the whole damn trg1r.grf
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16:58:29  <Athorium> omg
16:58:31  <DarkSSH> Athorium: send it here
16:58:34  <Athorium> wait
16:59:03  <Darkvater> Rubidium: if the industry diff is for a rewrite and you have the followup patch (almost) ready and crystallized out, go ahead
16:59:55  <Rubidium> I've not really started with the followup (yet)
17:00:12  <peter1138> hmm, newcargo support
17:00:16  <Rubidium> first I've got a desync to research (I have RANDOM_DEBUG logs)
17:00:17  <peter1138> i should bung that in at some point
17:00:24  <peter1138> along with no sprite limit, it makes long vehicles useful
17:00:27  <peter1138> still ugly though ;p
17:01:06  <DarkSSH> Rubidium: good luck with that; and I mean it
17:01:13  <Athorium>  Darkvater ¿?
17:01:36  <DarkSSH> last time I did RANDOM_DEBUG I had 500MB worth of it and still not of use
17:01:39  <DarkSSH> Athorium: send it here
17:01:43  <DarkSSH> to me, not Darkvater
17:01:46  <Athorium> ah ok
17:02:00  <DarkSSH> I wonder if I could code some repeat-machine
17:02:13  <DarkSSH> 17:58 DCC can't connect to port 2872
17:02:20  <Athorium> uhmmm
17:02:28  <Athorium> wait, I upload you to imageshack
17:02:39  <Athorium> fking router...
17:03:09  <peter1138> imageshack o_O
17:03:17  <peter1138> not ideal for messing with graphics
17:03:23  <FlashFF> roflolols
17:03:52  *** GoneWack1 [] has joined #openttd
17:03:54  <KUDr> peter1138, Rubidium, Darkvater, etc.: i have a fix for the signal under bridge bug reported by peter1138 but it fixes also another bug that signals got updated also through incompatible rail types. What do you think, will it be not problem that it fixes both?
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17:04:17  <peter1138> why would it be a problem if it fixes both?
17:04:24  <peter1138> or is it a separate problem with a separate change?
17:04:33  <KUDr> somebody can complain about the other one
17:04:41  <peter1138> and does either apply to 0.5?
17:04:57  <KUDr> same block, but can be splitted
17:05:10  <KUDr> both apply to 0.5
17:05:21  <Darkvater> not caused by bridge-merge?
17:05:23  <peter1138> signal under bridge bug affects 0.5?
17:05:24  <peter1138> hmm
17:05:38  <KUDr> not by bridge merge
17:05:41  <peter1138> actually
17:05:48  <peter1138> "signals got updated also through incompatible rail types"
17:06:03  <peter1138> i think some people abuse that...
17:06:08  <peter1138> for priority stuff
17:06:13  <KUDr> yes
17:06:16  <Darkvater> I hope incompatible rail types does not include rail and electric rail
17:06:25  <Darkvater> peter1138: well that's their problem; it's a bug
17:06:27  <KUDr> but is it bug and/or should it be fixed?
17:06:36  <Born_Acorn> I think SirkoZ's plan backfired, as instead of everyone agreeing or attacking him, they simply thanked the developers. :p
17:06:36  <peter1138> hmm
17:07:47  *** DarkSSH [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
17:08:03  <Darkvater> peter1138: or what do you think?
17:08:07  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7618 /trunk/ (window.c window.h):
17:08:07  <CIA-1> -Feature: Add support for a parent<>child relationship in Window terms. A child
17:08:07  <CIA-1>  is a window whose parent pointer is non-null. Deleting the parent cascades deleting
17:08:07  <CIA-1>  the children as well; children first.
17:09:03  <KUDr> <Darkvater> I hope incompatible rail types does not include rail and electric rail << they will be considered as compatible, of course
17:09:25  <Darkvater> :)
17:09:33  <Born_Acorn> How pleasant. Couldn't you just send the children to an orphanage if you kill the parent?
17:09:41  <Darkvater> KUDr: do you still have that face patch? I promised it for after 0.5
17:09:46  <Wolf01> code new signals first, and then uncouple the different track systems
17:09:52  <Darkvater> Born_Acorn: we are cold-blooded killers
17:10:18  * Born_Acorn keeps Darkvater from the Childrens Hospital metaphor of the code
17:11:44  <peter1138> Darkvater: no face patch! :(
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17:13:16  <Athorium> omg faking imageshack!
17:13:21  *** mattt_ [] has joined #openttd
17:13:26  <Athorium> 5 minutes to upload a fucking image
17:13:36  <Athorium> Darkvater
17:13:52  <Darkvater> Athorium: you could've sent me a PM with an attachment
17:14:01  <Athorium> :S
17:14:40  <Darkvater> you'll have to wait a bit though
17:14:52  <Athorium> ok, np
17:15:59  <peter1138> hmm
17:16:04  * peter1138 wonders about that old scrollbar patch...
17:16:07  <Darkvater> OMG
17:16:15  <peter1138> what?
17:16:20  <Born_Acorn> Do the TTDPatch style tabs!
17:16:24  <Athorium> ??? Revision: 7618
17:16:24  <Athorium> Author:  Darkvater
17:16:24  <Athorium> Date: 18:07:41, viernes, 29 de diciembre de 2006
17:16:24  <Athorium> Message:
17:16:24  <Athorium> -Feature: Add support for a parent<>child relationship in Window terms. A child
17:16:25  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7619 /trunk/ (28 files in 2 dirs):
17:16:25  <CIA-1> -Feature (Internal): Add support for modal children. It's a window-child that
17:16:25  <CIA-1>  will block activity for the parent window until the modal popup is dismissed.
17:16:26  <Athorium> ----
17:16:26  <Darkvater> I think I committed 500KB worth of
17:16:27  <Darkvater> fuck
17:16:28  <Athorium> Modified : /trunk/window.c
17:16:28  <Athorium> Modified : /trunk/window.h
17:16:30  <Athorium> omg
17:16:32  <Athorium> shit
17:16:49  <Athorium> bad button :s
17:16:50  * Bjarni slaps
17:16:51  <FlashFF> athor wtf
17:16:54  * Bjarni slaps Darkvater
17:16:58  <Athorium> sorry!
17:16:58  <FlashFF> and dark  500kb of what lol
17:16:59  <Darkvater> why doesn't 'cancel; work/
17:17:00  <Darkvater> fuck
17:17:01  <Athorium> bad button :S
17:17:03  <Bjarni> killing children first...
17:17:03  <Born_Acorn> Darkvater, blocking access to the Children? Do they get weekend access?
17:17:11  <Brianetta> Is there a doc anywhere describing the network protocol?  Particularly, the UDP bit
17:17:22  <Brianetta> The php scripts from the server are not helpfully commented
17:17:37  <Darkvater> I should revert shouldn't I...
17:17:51  <peter1138> what was it?
17:17:59  <peter1138> my language commit was bigger ;)
17:17:59  <Darkvater> modal query window
17:18:03  <FlashFF> php scripts fromthe server?
17:18:09  <FlashFF> whered u get those? lol
17:18:10  <Darkvater> ok not 500, less ;p
17:18:30  <blathijs> Sacro: Can you get me a stacktrace?
17:18:39  <Brianetta> FlashFF: THey're on svn
17:18:40  <peter1138> Darkvater: i mean was there anything else in there?
17:18:43  <FlashFF> they are?
17:18:50  <Darkvater> no
17:18:56  <Brianetta> svn://
17:19:07  <FlashFF> crazy
17:19:12  <peter1138> so it was just a large change. hmm.
17:19:13  <hylje> why so
17:19:25  <FlashFF> and are u sure UDP is what u need?
17:19:31  <Darkvater> or leave them in and have itworking do it in the next commit
17:19:38  <Brianetta> FlashFF: There are two parts to the protocol
17:19:42  <FlashFF> i wouldnt have thought the php scripts would interface with the udp side
17:19:43  <Brianetta> TCP does the game connection
17:19:46  <Darkvater> I would've committed these changes in 2 revisions anyways
17:19:49  <Brianetta> UDP does the meta-information
17:20:01  <SGulseth>
17:20:05  <FlashFF> yeah  but udp is generally used for data that doesnt absolutely have to get there, but does have to be fast
17:20:08  <Sacro> blathijs: its not me its scia, and i think he is doing
17:20:15  <Brianetta> FlashFF: I know
17:20:34  <Brianetta> FlashFF: It's a UDP protocol.  I'm not given a choice, I just want to know how it works.
17:20:38  <FlashFF> lol
17:20:40  <peter1138> Darkvater: oh, it was all language changes...?
17:20:49  <Darkvater> + window.[ch]
17:21:06  <peter1138> adding/removing a few strings certainly does add up
17:21:25  <peter1138> ok
17:21:26  <Brianetta> FlashFF:
17:21:31  <peter1138> as it's mostly strings, i'd say leave it and fix
17:21:33  <Brianetta> I'm looking for something less misleading...
17:21:53  <Darkvater> hmm ok
17:22:28  <scia> Sacro: peter1138 already took care of it
17:22:38  <scia> it is already fixed in trunk :)
17:22:41  <FlashFF> so what info are u looking for, as in what is ur aim
17:22:56  <Sacro> scia: ooh sweet
17:23:00  <Brianetta> I'm writing a web script that will query a server for information,.
17:23:01  <Sacro> blathijs: all is well :) go back to slee
17:23:02  <Sacro> p
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17:23:29  <Rubidium> Darkvater: lang/american.txt:362: warning: String name 'STR_ABANDON_GAME_QUERY' does not exist in master file
17:23:32  <Rubidium> lang/american.txt:741: warning: String name 'STR_QUIT_SCENARIO_QUERY' does not exist in master file
17:23:38  <Rubidium> and that for almost all language files
17:23:46  <Darkvater> jeez, I wonder why that is
17:24:04  <Darkvater> Rubidium: please read back a few lines :)
17:24:23  <Darkvater> I pressed'ok' without deselcting those files and 'cancel' didn't abort
17:25:12  <Rubidium> hmm, oops :)
17:25:50  <FlashFF> k
17:26:12  <FlashFF> brianetta: u know which ottd script does the same? lol
17:26:25  <Brianetta> FlashFF: Yes, I do
17:27:05  <FlashFF> which one lol
17:27:26  <Brianetta> ottd_update.php
17:32:38  <FlashFF> ok, and what parts the problem?
17:32:54  <stillunknown> i'm making progress with ride though depots, now comes the gui stuff yuck
17:32:59  <FlashFF> seems like a pretty simple  send 1 packet and parse the data returned
17:33:20  <Brianetta> indeed it does
17:33:23  <FlashFF> why its udp ill never know but thats beside the point
17:33:34  <Brianetta> but every time a new release comes out, my own PHP scripts break
17:33:43  <Brianetta> Like you said, it's 1 packet
17:33:47  <Brianetta> TCP is at least three
17:34:04  <Athorium> uhmmm
17:34:15  <FlashFF> yeah, but TCP is a lossless transfer
17:34:30  <Athorium> Is possible to make a signal light that appears in the upper part of rail?
17:34:31  <Brianetta> Not a problem for the openttd website
17:34:32  <FlashFF> udp you could send a packet and it could disappear on the way
17:34:37  <Brianetta> it has the previous result cached
17:34:37  <FlashFF> making the server appear offline
17:34:48  <hylje> Athorium: overhead?
17:34:51  <Brianetta> and is the UDP packet gets no response, it's deemed offline
17:34:51  <Athorium> yes
17:35:21  <Athorium> or like this
17:35:22  <Brianetta> Athorium: A cosmetic newgrf could do that
17:35:25  <peter1138> FlashFF: for a master server system, udp is what you want
17:35:47  <Athorium> I'll try it
17:36:02  <FlashFF> if ya say so
17:36:45  <blathijs> scia: peter1138: What was the problem?
17:37:31  <peter1138> strdup() on a null
17:37:41  <peter1138> has been fixed since RC1
17:39:41  <blathijs> k, good
17:41:14  <Brianetta> Two OpenTTD servers on one colo box
17:41:15  <Brianetta> ouch
17:41:20  <Brianetta> 17:41:15 up 98 days, 15:46,  1 user,  load average: 3.20, 2.80, 2.43
17:41:28  <Brianetta>   PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND
17:41:31  <Brianetta> 18383 ottdcoop  15   0 22428  11m 2232 R 47.6  2.2 126:36.64 openttd
17:41:33  <FlashFF> whats wrong with that?
17:41:34  <Brianetta> 19777 autopilo  16   0 19780 8932 2248 R 46.3  1.7  92:58.34 openttd
17:41:39  <Brianetta> They eat all my CPU up
17:41:40  <FlashFF> ottd is hardly a resource sucker
17:41:44  <Brianetta> yes it is
17:41:53  <gass> lol ... i am now seeing that a game called locomotion was out
17:42:05  <Brianetta> Locomotion is pretty, but sucky
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17:42:50  <FlashFF> lol my litts 1.3ghz celeron test box can run at least 3 ottd servers alongside all the other general server bits, + compile and still run fine lol
17:43:01  <FlashFF> *little
17:43:03  <Brianetta> I'm sure it can.
17:43:17  <Brianetta> Mine's a P4 1.8GHz
17:43:27  <Brianetta> and it struggles once trains number in the hundreds
17:43:31  <FlashFF> and 2 servers are gonna eat it?
17:43:58  <Brianetta> My servers are extremely popular
17:44:02  <FlashFF> is it a windows box?
17:44:11  <Brianetta> no
17:44:16  <peter1138> when you have a few hundred trains it starts to chug a bit
17:44:31  <Brianetta> It's mostly #openttdcoop that hammers the machine
17:44:42  <Brianetta> They're addicted to the train cloce tool
17:44:52  <Brianetta> s/cloce/clone/
17:44:58  <FlashFF> lol
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17:45:50  <pv2b> train clone ftw
17:46:29  <stillunknown> is there any documentation on how the ottd gui programming works?
17:46:51  <Born_Acorn> We need to enable HT support and make use of Dual Core!
17:46:58  <Born_Acorn> Pump up the revs!
17:47:03  <hylje> Brianetta: building trains is fun but when you have 230 of them..
17:48:13  <Gonozal_VIII> 230 isn't much
17:48:26  <Sacro> ooh yes, dual core
17:48:36  * Sacro huggles his AMD Athlon 64 X2 4600+
17:48:49  * peter1138 pats his athlon 800
17:49:16  <hylje> Gonozal_VIII: nope, we're still building more. train lengths 25 and 7 :)
17:49:25  * pv2b curses softly at his 1.5 GHz G4
17:49:37  <Gonozal_VIII> when the production of all mines reaches 2295 and you want to connect all of them, 230 trains is nothing..
17:50:35  <stillunknown> please tell me there is documentation on the gui :-(
17:50:46  <Gonozal_VIII> yes, 25er trains work good with gradual loading.. took much too long loading time before
17:51:31  <CIA-1> KUDr * r7620 /trunk/pathfind.c:
17:51:31  <CIA-1> -Fix: [OPF] signal update was incorrectly propagated:
17:51:31  <CIA-1>  - through incompatible rail types
17:51:31  <CIA-1>  - from under bridge track to the bridge ramp (peter1138)
17:51:31  <CIA-1>  - same for tunnels (from track on top of tunnel entry to the tunnel)
17:52:07  <peter1138> whoa
17:52:13  <peter1138> you fixed the tunnel/signal bug???
17:52:37  <Gonozal_VIII> i thought that was fixed long ago
17:53:17  <stillunknown> peter1138: can i convince you to tell me how the ottd gui parameters work?
17:53:18  <Brianetta> Not for NTP
17:53:41  <peter1138> the what?
17:53:53  <hylje> peter1138: gui stuff
17:53:59  <stillunknown> {      WWT_PANEL,   RESIZE_NONE,    14,    71,   136,    69,   118, 0x0,                              STR_1020_SELECT_RAILROAD_DEPOT_ORIENTATIO},
17:54:05  <stillunknown> like, what does this mean?
17:54:09  <KUDr> Gonozal_VIII: it was but it magically disappeared :)
17:54:51  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7621 /trunk/ (6 files):
17:54:51  <CIA-1> -Codechange: Rework ShowQuery into a general modal popup window. It gets passed
17:54:51  <CIA-1>  a parent pointer which will be blocked as long as the popup is open. This
17:54:51  <CIA-1>  applies to newgrf-apply, quit/abandon game, heightmap warning, genworld progress.
17:55:18  <peter1138> KUDr: you rock :D
17:55:26  <KUDr> thanks
17:55:32  <peter1138> that one's bugged peeps for ages
17:55:41  <KUDr> tunnels?
17:55:45  <peter1138> yueah
17:56:26  <KUDr> i found it when looking into code and finally understood the signalling update stuff in ofp
17:56:27  <peter1138> btw, i found a very easy way to increase the sprite limit
17:56:31  <KUDr> opf
17:56:42  <peter1138> 16383 should be 16384 ... ^^
17:56:43  <Darkvater> peter1138: SpriteID uint64? :)
17:56:54  <peter1138> Darkvater: no... although i did try ;p
17:57:04  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7622 /trunk/ (depot_gui.c intro_gui.c lang/english.txt):
17:57:04  <CIA-1> -Codechange: Convert some more windows to ShowQuery. This includes the depot
17:57:04  <CIA-1>  sell-all popup, quit/abandon game. The language files committed in r7619 go with this.
17:57:13  <peter1138> dunno how well that would work on 32bit machines either
17:57:21  <Darkvater> KUDr: the tunnel/signal bug didn't happen for yapf?
17:57:28  <peter1138> Darkvater: it's signals
17:57:34  <peter1138> signals use opf
17:57:39  <Darkvater> ah
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17:57:54  <peter1138> gah, just finished compiling and you commit more
17:57:56  <KUDr> Darkvater: yapf is not used for signaling update
17:58:06  <KUDr> there is always used OPF
17:58:17  <Darkvater> I see
17:58:22  <peter1138> Darkvater: fancy doing rc2 this weekend? we seem to have quite a few fixes... and the desyncs, though :/
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17:58:39  <FlashFF> so dark   how comethe lang files are borked on svn?  cant you just roll back the files?
17:58:41  <KUDr> but yapf has the same problem with track under bridge -> ramp
17:58:53  <KUDr> i will fix it soon
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18:00:35  <Darkvater> FlashFF: nothing's broken
18:01:05  <FlashFF> ok not strictly
18:01:11  <FlashFF> but warnings ftl
18:01:14  <Darkvater> no warnings
18:01:17  <FlashFF> k
18:02:04  <peter1138> svn up :P
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18:05:16  <Tuzlo> is there any reason you cant replace a diesel engine with an electric one?
18:05:29  <Smoovious> caternary
18:06:04  <GoneWacko> hmm
18:06:17  <Wolf01> on normal depots you can't, try sending the diesel engine on an electric depot
18:06:23  <GoneWacko> 0.5.0 RC1 just had an assertion failure T_T
18:06:36  <Smoovious> I assume Tuzlo meant auto-replacing
18:07:02  <Wolf01> you can switch to electric engines in electric depots
18:07:11  <peter1138> GoneWacko: is that all?
18:07:28  <peter1138> what did it assert with?
18:07:36  <GoneWacko> dbg: [NET] Trying to execute a packet in the past!
18:07:36  <GoneWacko> openttd: network.c:1197: NetworkHandleLocalQueue: Assertion `0' failed.
18:07:37  <GoneWacko> Aborted
18:08:00  <peter1138> hmm, that one
18:08:37  <KUDr> hmm
18:08:55  <peter1138> iirc, ludde did something that introduced that
18:08:57  <KUDr> this can be reason of desyncs
18:09:01  <peter1138> no
18:09:07  <peter1138> it's not a desync
18:09:21  <KUDr> if client is not running debug build?
18:09:36  <KUDr> assert will not occure
18:09:41  <Darkvater> didn't Rubidium have a fix for that?
18:09:43  <peter1138> hmm
18:09:52  <Sacro> Can i request a feature, if the server detects a queue of people waiting to join, it pauses until everyone is in
18:10:05  <Sacro> rather than unpausing for a second between people
18:10:30  <Rubidium> Darkvater: that has gone into trunk already
18:10:33  <Tuzlo> electric depot?
18:10:36  <Darkvater> oh
18:10:44  <Tuzlo> they different?
18:10:45  <Darkvater> perhaps GoneWacko is using RC1
18:11:06  <Born_Acorn> 0.5.0 RC1 just had an assertion failure T_T
18:11:10  <Born_Acorn> (quote)
18:11:17  <Born_Acorn> :p
18:13:20  <Darkvater> he
18:13:52  <stillunknown> can anyone compile trunk?
18:14:00  <stillunknown> misc_gui.c:1186: error: size of array 'a' is negative
18:14:14  <stillunknown> happened in the last day or two
18:14:21  <Rubidium> I can :)
18:14:34  <KUDr> me too
18:14:48  <Athorium> compiling..
18:15:10  <Tuzlo> do you have to change the stations as well as the depot's>
18:15:16  <Tuzlo> (electric)
18:15:26  <Darkvater> hmm
18:15:30  <Darkvater> stillunknown: x64?
18:15:33  <stillunknown> yes
18:15:58  <stillunknown> and i did bother to look at that line, didn't see why it would happen
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18:16:03  <Darkvater> what does sizeof(query_d) say?
18:16:30  <Born_Acorn> peter1138 looks at autoslope! Autoslope woo
18:17:14  <stillunknown> what would be the easiest way to find out (considering it won't compile)
18:17:38  <Darkvater> #error sizeof(query_d)
18:17:44  <Darkvater> hmm wait
18:17:52  <peter1138> heh
18:17:59  <Darkvater> remove the assert and do a printf()
18:18:04  <Athorium> compiled
18:18:10  <Darkvater> Athorium: almost
18:18:15  <Athorium> but...
18:18:27  <peter1138> uint32 params[20]; is quite a lot... hmm..
18:18:46  <Athorium> win32.c: In function 'OTTDSHGetFolderPatch':
18:18:49  <peter1138> just increase WINDOW_CUSTOM_SIZE :D
18:19:24  <Athorium> win32.c:1109: aviso: la diferencia de punteros tipo castigado romperá las reglas de alias estricto.
18:19:41  <Rubidium> memmove(ti, ti + 1, endof(_animated_tile_list) - 1 - ti); <- is 1 really 1 byte or sizeof(*ti)?
18:19:50  <Darkvater> peter1138: perhaps...
18:20:26  <peter1138> Rubidium: the latter
18:21:34  <stillunknown> Darkvater: the #error just prints the text, not the sizeof(query_d)
18:21:51  <peter1138> hee
18:21:58  <peter1138> long vehicles 4 uses 2cc in one place
18:22:00  <Born_Acorn> I wonder if jez will return, insisting on committance!
18:22:03  <peter1138> the company info window...
18:22:16  <peter1138> (and thus the "uses 2cc" flag never gets set)
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18:25:23  <Wolf01> SDT_CONDVAR(Patches, day_length,     SLE_UINT8, 38, SL_MAX_VERSION, 0, 0, ...
18:25:23  <Wolf01> what does mean the "38"?
18:25:35  <peter1138> version 38
18:25:48  <peter1138> we're on 40-something now
18:25:49  <Darkvater> Athorium: what is the difference between sprites 0-7 and 8-15?
18:26:23  <Wolf01> so the 38 is the start version and sl_max_version is the current
18:26:28  <peter1138> why does george put naked women on his buses?
18:26:30  <Athorium>  Darkvater
18:26:33  <Athorium> the lights
18:26:37  <peter1138> sl_max_version is the last ever version ever
18:26:43  <Athorium> one is the head and the other uses the rear lights
18:26:50  <Darkvater> ah
18:26:56  <Darkvater> this is gonna take a little while
18:27:07  <Athorium> ok, np
18:27:11  <Wolf01> i can't figure out how to load old savegames with the daylength patch
18:27:15  <Athorium> one thing is possible to make a EMU system?
18:27:40  <peter1138> Wolf01: increase the saveload version number in saveload.c, and use that instead of 38
18:27:44  <Athorium> one convoy of this train is compiled by Head-Passenger Wagon-Back|Head-Passenger Wagon-Back
18:28:00  <Wolf01> ok
18:28:40  <stillunknown> misc_gui.c:1193: warning: format '%d' expects type 'int', but argument 3 has type 'long unsigned int'
18:28:49  <stillunknown> which do i use for this, %?
18:29:09  <Sacro_> %l?
18:29:17  <hylje> mh
18:29:22  <Sacro_> man printf
18:29:25  <hylje> dyke functionality broken?
18:29:33  <Wolf01> ok, now works
18:29:40  <hylje> if i build canals in sea level, it just floods about
18:30:31  <hylje> instead of being canals and blocking the sea
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18:30:49  <stillunknown> misc_gui.c:1193: warning: unknown conversion type character 0xa in format
18:30:49  <stillunknown> misc_gui.c:1193: warning: too many arguments for format
18:31:19  <stillunknown> the long i should have known, but this doesn't make much sense to me
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18:31:45  <Athorium>  Darkvater is possible to make the train a automated EMU system? every convoy is maked by Head-Passenger wagon-Back
18:31:47  <Sacro_> stillunknown: sorry, its %u
18:32:11  <Darkvater> Athorium: yeah probably, will look into that after dinner
18:32:24  <Athorium> oks ^_^
18:32:26  <stillunknown> Sacro: %lu
18:32:52  <hylje> yes
18:33:03  <hylje> someone broke the canals-on-sealevel stuff
18:33:22  <stillunknown> Darkvater: the sizeof is 104
18:33:30  <stillunknown> the defined size is 96
18:34:00  <Darkvater> 104?
18:34:02  <Darkvater> wtf
18:34:23  <Darkvater> message is 2, params*20 is 80, void* is 8, calledback is 1 = 91
18:34:30  <Darkvater> 92 max
18:34:45  <stillunknown> are you sure the pointersize isn't bigger on x86_64
18:34:46  <stillunknown> ?
18:34:46  <peter1138> alignment?
18:34:54  <Darkvater> pointersize is 8
18:35:11  <peter1138> 8+80+8+8 = 104
18:35:22  <Darkvater> he
18:35:34  <hylje> the functionality was broken somewhere between r7362 and r7603
18:35:41  <peter1138> move calledback and it'll be 96, probably, but...
18:36:40  <peter1138> i hate to think of the size of the other structs, heh
18:37:34  <stillunknown> will be this be "fixed" now or is there something bigger going on here?
18:37:49  <Darkvater> no, i'tll get fixed
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18:39:34  <stillunknown> should i just change the value myself or wait for upstream?
18:39:51  <Darkvater> you can change it
18:40:19  <CIA-1> KUDr * r7623 /trunk/yapf/follow_track.hpp: - Fix: [YAPF] trains/roadvehs trying to enter the bridge ramp from under bridge rail/road (introduced by bridge merge r7573)
18:41:42  <Rubidium> hmm, the desync is caused by a difference in the animated tile list
18:41:56  <peter1138> ooh
18:42:20  <Darkvater> OMG
18:42:21  <KUDr> really?
18:42:23  <Darkvater> Rubidium: :D
18:42:37  <Darkvater> he found it!
18:42:40  <Darkvater> what'd you do?
18:42:53  <Brianetta> Rubidium++
18:43:00  <Smoovious> ?!
18:43:09  <Smoovious> the desync issue got fixed?!
18:43:16  <peter1138> no
18:43:18  <Darkvater> no, it got found (one issue)
18:43:25  <peter1138> there could be... more....
18:43:32  <Smoovious> ahh... well, gotta start somewhere. :D
18:43:33  <Brianetta> a desync issue got located
18:44:16  <Brianetta> There's no way of knowing how many desync issues there are, and often no way of being sure which desync issue you're seeing evidence of.
18:44:25  <Brianetta> It's like Turing's determinism problem
18:44:36  <Smoovious> I understand the complexities involved
18:45:18  <Gonozal_VIII> there's no way of getting the game back to sync when it desyncs?
18:45:52  <Smoovious> is there one checksum for the whole thing, or is it broken up a bit? like, one checksum for terrain, another for vehicle location/types, another for tracks/roads/cities, etc?
18:46:08  <Rubidium> there is one random seed that gets checked
18:46:22  <Smoovious> GoneWacko... not without knowing which checksum is the correct one
18:46:46  <Gonozal_VIII> so... split the checksums?
18:46:48  <KUDr> Smoovious: yes, those checksums could be very usefull for detecting where the desync occured
18:47:06  <Smoovious> that's still a problem, Gonozal_VIII...
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18:47:33  <Smoovious> it'll narrow it down a little, but there just isn't enough information telling you which data exactly isn't sync'd
18:47:38  <Smoovious> only that it isn't
18:47:59  <Gonozal_VIII> split the checksum that causes desyncs again..
18:48:11  <KUDr> yes
18:48:17  <KUDr> this could be the way
18:48:41  <Smoovious> Gonozal_VIII.. that'd only be useful for narrowing down where the problem is, but not for automatically recovering...
18:48:55  <Smoovious> just too much data
18:49:06  <Smoovious> especially on a 2k x 2k map or larger
18:50:02  <Gonozal_VIII> the problem could possibly be fixed if you can find out where exactly it is
18:50:03  <Smoovious> hey, is anyone working on the message display? (the white news items popping up periodically?)
18:50:11  <peter1138> Rubidium: so the question is... why is it different :)
18:50:19  <KUDr> the MP game must stop immediatelly when desync is detected and lot of checksums must be then made on both sides
18:50:36  <Rubidium> when a desync is detected, you are already way too late
18:50:42  <Smoovious> Gonozal_VIII... yeah, possibly, but there is so much data and so many possibilities, it'll just hang the game for a long time while everything is checked every year...
18:50:45  * Smoovious nods to Rubidium
18:50:46  <Gonozal_VIII> that's what i thought of kudr
18:51:51  <KUDr> for narrowing the problem it could be very helpfull, but those checks must be done very often, not only when random seeds differ
18:52:07  <Rubidium> for example, in this case 25 days had passed till the desync was detected
18:52:34  <peter1138> problem with splitting the seed is it'll take more network bandwidth, heh
18:53:00  <Rubidium> and 338 frames had passed since the first signs of desyncs were shown
18:53:08  <Smoovious> well, maybe not have it enabled normally, but for debugging, might be useful
18:53:09  <peter1138> endof(_animated_tile_list)[-1] = 0;
18:53:15  <Gonozal_VIII> i thought of a special build to find the issues
18:53:15  <KUDr> Rubidium: but if checksums was checked every day it would be detected sooner or not?
18:53:17  <peter1138> feh, negative indexes, heh
18:53:30  <Rubidium> KUDr: if you checksum _everything_ yes
18:53:35  <Smoovious> anyways, I was just wondering how they were checked against each other
18:54:02  <Smoovious> interested in participating, but got a big learning curve ahead of me before I'd be ready to tackle anything
18:54:02  <Rubidium> i.e. checksumming the _animated_tile_list and friends (all caches etc) too
18:54:38  <Gonozal_VIII> make a special build that checks everything all the time and reports the desyncs and then find some people to test it...
18:54:38  <Smoovious> your processor overhead would go up too, doing it daily
18:55:07  <Rubidium> hmm, ok the animated tile list has _lots_ of duplicates
18:55:26  <peter1138> that shouldn't happen
18:55:33  <Rubidium> but is does happen
18:55:53  <KUDr> why animations must be in sync?
18:56:02  <Smoovious> guys, is there a list I could look at showing who is working on what?
18:56:09  <Rubidium> because animations sometimes call CHANCE*
18:56:17  <KUDr> ohh
18:56:29  <KUDr> it shouldn't
18:56:29  <Rubidium> for example, when to stop animating
18:56:56  <KUDr> object states should not depend on the animation sequences
18:57:16  <Rubidium> the animation state is part of the object state
18:57:28  <KUDr> but should be local
18:57:33  <Smoovious> probably wouldn't be as big of a deal making sure the waves on the water are in sync with each other, but there's more animation going on that you'd want to keep sync'd
18:57:37  <KUDr> how the object is shown
18:57:46  <peter1138> Rubidium: i'm thinking lifts...
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18:58:40  <peter1138> KUDr: similar was said about newgrf's randomized graphics
18:58:48  <peter1138> it didn't matter that the graphics weren't the same
18:58:51  <KUDr> there should be one way only dependency
18:59:03  <KUDr> yes
18:59:08  <KUDr> it should be so
18:59:09  <peter1138> well
18:59:13  <peter1138> thing is
18:59:16  <peter1138> either they're in sync
18:59:20  <KUDr> i am wondering why it is not so
18:59:21  <peter1138> or they're never in sync
18:59:47  <peter1138> it's better to ensure that everything is in sync
18:59:52  <KUDr> syncing animations seems stupid to me
18:59:53  <peter1138> rather than let some slip the net
19:00:13  <KUDr> i can switch of animations and expect CPU saved
19:00:24  <Smoovious> depends on the type of animation
19:00:26  <peter1138> you can't switch them off :)
19:00:43  <KUDr> but i should be able to
19:00:53  <peter1138> KUDr: example is "when this animation has finished, set this state"
19:01:23  <KUDr> no, it is wrong, the timer for state machine should be independent on animations
19:01:33  <Smoovious> like... is it enough that this square is displaying this type of water tile? without worrying about which animation step it is in? same with buildings...
19:01:41  <peter1138> you could argue that the state should be set elsewhere, but then you're doubly storing it, and one of the states still needs to be kept in sync
19:02:14  <KUDr> but not so many states
19:02:20  <KUDr> and not so much code
19:02:33  <peter1138> no, more code to store it separately
19:02:50  <peter1138> you'd need to store some separate counter, for example
19:03:04  <Smoovious> if the tile type is enough to keep in sync without worrying about where in its animation it is in, then, would it also be possible for people to use different graphics, so long as each set has the same matching types of tiles?
19:03:08  <KUDr> but now we must keep in sync more code
19:03:28  <hylje> Smoovious: kinda. and same stats
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19:03:41  * Smoovious nods.
19:04:07  <peter1138> what about syncing trees? heh
19:04:16  * Smoovious is thinking of his VGAplanets days on that thought.
19:04:22  <peter1138> that's just graphical, right?
19:04:44  <KUDr> tree is object on the map
19:04:49  <Smoovious> well, they also affect the clearing cost... and, don't forests also use up some of the sorrounding trees?
19:04:52  <KUDr> they should grow in sync
19:04:58  <KUDr> it is not animation
19:05:05  <peter1138> they're animated
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19:05:07  <Smoovious> yeah, but that would stay in sync with the tile type, wouldn't it?
19:05:22  <peter1138> they grow, for example
19:05:37  <KUDr> and the graphical representation can be influenced by more states than only object states (like wind)
19:05:41  <Wolf01> found another desync: when both server and client have the configure patches opened and the server modifies a server-side value which is not bool, i tried modifying the daylength value
19:06:00  <Smoovious> yay, Wolf01
19:06:03  <Gonozal_VIII> it's not important that the trees grow in sync, just the information that there is a tree is important
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19:06:15  <Smoovious> agreed, Gonozal_VIII
19:06:31  <KUDr> Wolf01: daylength in trunk?
19:06:55  <Wolf01> no, on mine custom, but happen also with other patches sometimes
19:07:10  <Rubidium> Wolf01: daylength changes are not synched when in-game
19:07:11  <Smoovious> we can't see each other's screens anyways... so if one person has a single half-grown tree in the upper corner, and someone else has a single half-grown tree in the left corner... it doesn't affect the game-play at all so long as there is a half-grown tree counted
19:07:22  <Wolf01> yes, they are synced
19:07:36  <peter1138> Gonozal_VIII: it is
19:07:41  <peter1138> Gonozal_VIII: because trees die too
19:07:50  <peter1138> then there will be no tree
19:08:13  <peter1138> and a tile with trees on costs more to build on than one without
19:08:15  <KUDr> Wolf01: other patche are synced
19:08:16  <Gonozal_VIII> then the information about the tree not being there anymore is sent to the client
19:08:39  <peter1138> heh, sure
19:08:49  <Gonozal_VIII> like it is sent when you build a tree...
19:09:19  <Rubidium> Gonozal_VIII: that means you have to rewrite the whole client-server network part
19:09:22  <peter1138> Rubidium: duplicate values you say?
19:09:40  <Rubidium> yeah
19:10:51  <Rubidium> hmm, they are already in the savegame
19:11:03  <KUDr> Gonozal_VIII: all states that influence game must be in sync - otherwise we would send tons of data every frame
19:11:34  <Rubidium> they are already duplicated in the savegame
19:11:39  <peter1138> you said
19:11:42  <KUDr> but they should be independent on graphics representation
19:13:37  <Rubidium> hmm
19:13:52  <Gonozal_VIII> how are dying trees handled anyways? does each tree have a countdown or something?
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19:15:35  <Rubidium> one animated tile gets removed, but... on PPC it does not get removed, where on x86 another tile is substitutes
19:16:06  <peter1138> hmmmm
19:16:16  <peter1138> was the server ppc?
19:16:33  <Smoovious> doesn't sound good...
19:16:38  <Rubidium> as in animation for DeleteAnimatedTile(749647)
19:16:44  <Rubidium> yes, the server is PPC
19:16:55  <peter1138> unfortunately that's a separate desync to the one i get :/
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19:17:41  <Rubidium> PPC has 749647 still in the list, whereas in x86 that removed index becomes 749814 (it got removed from the end of the list)
19:22:16  <Gonozal_VIII> i (lazy) would disable random growing and dying trees and make an animation cycle, where each dead tree is replaced by a small new one...
19:22:48  <pv2b> Rubidium: okay, so now you know what's not happening. do you know why not yet?
19:23:07  <Rubidium> no, not really
19:23:17  <peter1138> Bjarni!
19:23:26  <peter1138> this is his area of expertise
19:23:40  <Rubidium> yeah, but for x86 the behaviour is broken too
19:23:55  <peter1138> hmm
19:23:57  <pv2b> so you're getting undefined behaviour somewhere in tree*.c
19:24:04  <stillunknown> anyone know were the CmdBuild function for a waypoint is?
19:24:10  <pv2b> or better yet
19:24:11  <peter1138> no, the trees was an example :P
19:24:13  <Rubidium> pv2b: trees have nothing to do with this
19:24:14  <pv2b> somewhere completely unrelated
19:24:19  <peter1138> stillunknown: waypoint.c i'd imagine
19:24:20  <pv2b> Rubidium: oh, i misread?
19:24:27  <peter1138> could be in rail_cmd.c o suppose
19:24:35  <peter1138> s/ o / I /
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19:25:23  <pv2b> Rubidium: texteff.c then?
19:25:30  *** mosfet [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:25:49  <pv2b> Rubidium: if i understood you correctly the problem is with mainting the animated tiles list?
19:25:51  <Smoovious> pv2b... the tree growth was just an example they were using for an underlying problem not related specifically to trees
19:25:53  <Rubidium> yup
19:26:34  <stillunknown> peter1138: sometimes i'm so single minded, thanks
19:28:04  <Rubidium> ah, it's all nice r1 code :)
19:28:11  <peter1138> hehe
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19:29:49  * Rubidium wonders why all that memmoving is done
19:30:17  <peter1138> so keep it contiguous
19:30:29  <peter1138> it doesn't seem necessary
19:30:30  <Rubidium> could just copy the last tile to the hole and zero the last tile
19:30:54  <Rubidium> (non-zero tile that is)
19:30:54  <peter1138> or leave the gaps in
19:31:18  <Rubidium> then you might get duplicates
19:32:32  <peter1138> hmm
19:32:42  <peter1138> point
19:33:07  <peter1138> 256 isn't enough anyway
19:33:11  <peter1138> not for huge maps
19:33:24  <Rubidium> that might be true
19:33:37  <Gonozal_VIII> 256 what?
19:33:54  <Smoovious> in-use tiles
19:34:07  <pv2b> this is a 1024x1024 map
19:34:13  <pv2b> with a lot of trees on it :-)
19:34:42  <pv2b> wait a second. i think i know what might be going on
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19:34:48  <Gonozal_VIII> in use tiles... don't know what that means but i'm used to that
19:35:01  <pv2b> what if the compilers are meking the two arrays of slightly different length?
19:35:04  <pv2b> for padding purposes
19:35:18  <pv2b> then all the nice sizeof() macros will return different values
19:35:24  <pv2b> potentially giving different results
19:35:45  <Smoovious> wouldn't that show up the first time they're compared?
19:36:00  <pv2b> why would they?
19:36:45  <pv2b> hm, actually, no.
19:36:51  <pv2b> the preprocessor doesn't know about padding
19:36:53  <pv2b> not yet
19:37:01  <pv2b> and the sizeof() is taken care of in the preprocessor
19:37:05  <pv2b> ergo that theory is bogus
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19:42:17  <Bjarni> heh
19:42:44  <mattt_> why would the compiler pad O.o
19:42:53  <mattt_> er
19:43:21  <mattt_> arrays are run-time
19:43:24  <Bjarni> it's always nice to see when somebody think they got a great idea and then starts to talk about it and ends with concluding that it's complete bullshit and not usable
19:43:50  <Gonozal_VIII> i do that all the time :-)
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19:44:24  <mattt_> Bjarni: it's better they think it out and come to a reasonable conclusion than not think at all, pursue the idea, and then totally screw something up because the idea was wrong to begin with :P
19:45:10  <mattt_> oh
19:45:13  <mattt_> sizeof macros
19:45:18  <Smoovious> tell me about it...
19:45:35  <Smoovious> always hated fixing people's fixes
19:45:48  <mattt_> someone is probably saying that about you ;)
19:45:56  <Bjarni> I was about to do that
19:46:16  <Smoovious> doubtful...
19:46:24  <mattt_> just bustin' your chops
19:46:27  <Bjarni> I feel like I'm helping everybody in here, so why not you? :)
19:46:51  <stillunknown> Is there a sane way to redirect a CmdBuildTrainDepot to a building a waypoint?
19:47:31  <mattt_> sizeof() is a macro? O.o
19:47:32  <stillunknown> the most obvious way doesn't work, which probably has to do with different flags
19:47:39  <pv2b> no.
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19:47:41  <pv2b> sizeof is an operator
19:47:45  <Darkvater> ugh
19:47:48  <pv2b> lengthof() where applicable is a macro
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19:47:54  * Darkvater doesn't have patience for this nfo coding :(
19:48:12  <Darkvater> anyone has grfmaker?
19:48:39  <Bjarni> I got the source, but I still lack porting it so I can use it
19:49:13  <Darkvater> Bjarni: I doubt you have the source of grfmaker
19:49:40  <Bjarni> hmm
19:50:15  <stillunknown> anyone know were the flags come from for CmdBuild functions?
19:50:42  <Bjarni> you mean it should be that thing that CS used?
19:51:28  <peter1138> damn
19:51:30  <Bjarni> stillunknown: sort of. Search for DoCommandP() lines with CMD_BUILD_RAIL_DEPOT (look up the real command in commands.h)
19:52:51  <Bjarni> command/flag/whatever
19:52:58  <Bjarni> they are all listed in that file
19:53:27  <Darkvater> Athorium: sorry about that, it'll take a lot of time for me to code a proper emu for you
19:53:53  <Athorium> ?
19:54:04  <mattt_> what's openttd use for bugtracking?
19:54:11  <Darkvater> Athorium: best I can do is change it for an existing train, but you won't have special begin/ending of your train as all default trains are symmetric
19:54:13  <hylje> mattt_:
19:54:29  <Athorium> :(
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19:54:39  <Darkvater> I'm not an nfo coder
19:54:41  <Athorium> ok. don't worry
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20:01:37  <pv2b> nfo coder?
20:04:09  *** GoneWack1 [] has joined #openttd
20:04:09  *** GoneWacko [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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20:09:04  <peter1138> hmm
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20:26:15  <mattt_> what is one day in the game equivalent to in real time?
20:26:32  <Wolf01> from 1 to 3 seconds
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20:26:47  <mattt_> it's variable?
20:27:03  <Wolf01> depends of computer speed
20:27:09  <mattt_> ah
20:27:57  <Wolf01> if you want it variable you can extend it up to about 70 seconds
20:28:06  <peter1138> no
20:28:08  <peter1138> it's 2 seconds
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20:28:17  <Rubidium> KUDr: if you checksum _everything_ yes
20:28:33  <KUDr> thats idea
20:28:47  <KUDr> for some special desync debug builds
20:28:50  <Rubidium> oops, that was a reply on something you said a long while ago
20:29:02  <KUDr> np :)
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20:45:55  <blathijs> bah, I can't even compile openttd anymore
20:46:00  <blathijs> with that freetype stuff
20:46:19  <Rubidium> why not?
20:47:00  <blathijs> missing dependencies I think
20:47:07  <blathijs> I can't find the fontconfig library
20:48:11  <glx> fontconfig is optional
20:48:23  <peter1138> as is freetype
20:48:27  <blathijs> yet enabled by default
20:48:29  <blathijs> ah, found it
20:48:39  <peter1138> shouldn't be
20:48:45  <peter1138> unless the configure's borked
20:49:12  <blathijs> It's an existing config, but I never explicitely enabled it
20:49:25  <peter1138> hmm
20:49:55  <blathijs> Is freetype is 0.5?
20:50:04  <blathijs> s/is/in/
20:50:08  <Darkvater> yes
20:50:27  <blathijs> is it a good thing to have?
20:50:35  <peter1138> now you pipe up :P
20:50:49  <Darkvater> ;p
20:50:50  <blathijs> iow, should I enable it in the .debs ?
20:51:41  <Bjarni> well, I had problems with fontconfig as well
20:51:50  <glx> same for me :)
20:51:55  <Bjarni> but it was no harder than something I figured out how to solve
20:52:08  <blathijs> It works for me now, just had to find the right package to install
20:52:18  <Bjarni> first I needed to compile it, then I learned that I linked dynamically to it in the static release binary :s
20:53:05  <blathijs> but, what does enabling freetype buy me?
20:53:14  <Bjarni> then it turned out that my config file is borked when it comes to static linking, so I had to figure out a way to streamline static linking without too much hassle
20:53:17  <blathijs> support for weird languages? :-)
20:53:21  <Bjarni> yeah
20:53:26  <blathijs> misc_gui.c:1186: error: size of array 'a' is negative
20:53:28  <blathijs> wtf?
20:53:33  <Bjarni> o_O
20:53:36  <blathijs> Bjarni: so, should probably be enabled by default
20:53:49  <glx> blathijs: 64bits?
20:53:52  <Darkvater> blathijs: incrase window_custom_size of wait till I fix it
20:54:06  <blathijs> glx: Yup :-)
20:54:14  <Bjarni> I added the support for it in the release binary in RC1 and I plan to do that for all future released binaries
20:54:19  <blathijs> Darkvater: Are you working on it, or should I take a looK?
20:54:31  <Darkvater> I'll work on it
20:54:38  <izhirahider> Can any of you help me out with SeedChance()? SeedChance(0,4,seed); generates numbers from 0,1,2,3,4 ; 0,1,2,3 or 1,2,3,4 ?
20:54:45  <izhirahider> The wiki is unclear
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20:55:10  * Bjarni washes the wiki
20:55:12  <Bjarni> better?
20:55:32  <Rubidium> izhirahider: 0...n-1
20:56:03  <glx> (GB(seed, shift_by, 16) * max) >> 16 <-- SeedChance() code
20:56:29  <glx> SeedChance(int shift_by, int max, uint32 seed) <-- for the params :)
20:56:51  <izhirahider> Quoting the wiki: "...If this argument is 15 for example, then the number generated will be between 0 and 15." It should be 14 then
20:57:40  <blathijs> we have api documentation on the wiki?
20:57:49  <peter1138> sometimse
20:57:50  <izhirahider> I'm reading the code saying SeedModChance is supposed to be give a more even distribution. Is this correct?
20:57:51  <peter1138> for some reason
20:59:22  <Rubidium> izhirahider: it was OK, till Jango changed it
20:59:40  <Rubidium> or, no, not even then
21:01:20  *** Mucht [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:01:21  <Rubidium> the docs were never right
21:01:35  <izhirahider> are you talking about the wiki or the inline comments?
21:01:40  <Rubidium> wiki
21:01:53  <izhirahider> I'm following the wiki to add a new town name generator
21:02:54  <stillunknown> i'm working on a patch that allows ride trough maintenance
21:03:06  <stillunknown> and i need some input about beheaviour
21:03:36  <stillunknown> it currently decides what to do based on the last maintenance time and the maintenance period
21:03:52  <stillunknown> but for a long train it can start maintenance half way
21:04:17  <stillunknown> the first engine will obviously not be changed and so will the reliability
21:04:28  <stillunknown> any thoughts on the subject?
21:04:52  <Rubidium> maintaining half a train would be bad
21:05:45  <Rubidium> then you should just let is pass
21:05:58  <stillunknown> i was about to say that
21:06:13  <stillunknown> just need to figure out what a reliable way is to do that
21:06:52  <Rubidium> you could set a flag in the 'semi-depot' whether you are maintaining the current train or not
21:07:09  <stillunknown> good idea
21:07:17  <Rubidium> and you should only be able to set it when the first engine is in the depot
21:07:47  <stillunknown> i've got the idea in my head now, thanks
21:07:54  <Rubidium> and when the last wagon/engine is maintained, the flag is reset
21:08:02  <stillunknown> should the depot speed of 61 kph stay?
21:08:15  <stillunknown> Rub: yes, my idea exactly
21:08:42  <BFM> Great, I've woken up with a chainsaw in my throat. Mmm, two stroke, right before New years as well. There's goes my plans of playing Guildwars all night. =\
21:09:42  <Rubidium> stillunknown: I think it should be made slower, otherwise you are going to favor this type of maintainance too much
21:10:02  <stillunknown> my initial speed was 30 kph
21:10:16  <stillunknown> before i realised there was already a depot speed
21:10:23  <Rubidium> I think 30 kph would be a nice value (assuming you let the train moving during the maintainance)
21:11:07  <stillunknown> it slows down to 0 kph for a split second for each block of two wagons
21:11:24  <stillunknown> it goes to 0, but doesn't stay there
21:11:48  <stillunknown> the ride trough speed is just for no maintenance at all
21:12:10  <Rubidium> ah, then 60 kph sounds OK
21:16:25  <stillunknown> if you have any suggestions, then don't hesitate
21:16:41  <stillunknown> i've got the basics done and i'm away now (for a while)
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21:26:43  <CIA-1> matthijs * r7624 /trunk/Makefile: -Fix (FS#470): Also install openttd.32.bmp on make install, used as window icon by SDL (to be ported to 0.5).
21:28:04  <izhirahider> Is there somewhere in OpenTTD a reference, in the game, to how many cities a map has?
21:30:36  <CIA-1> matthijs * r7625 /trunk/os/debian/changelog: * Change debian packaging version to support proper upgrading from/to release versions.
21:30:40  <blathijs> hmm, sorry for that
21:30:55  <blathijs> Accidentally reverted to my personal commit style :-S
21:32:41  <blathijs> Darkvater: Around?
21:33:08  <Rubidium> izhirahider: in the GUI, or for some piece of code?
21:34:50  <izhirahider> GUI
21:35:00  <Rubidium> I've got no idea about that
21:35:46  <izhirahider> I am puzzled why there's no way a certain town names types aren't being generated even though it has the exact same chance of appearing
21:37:42  <Rubidium> same chance of appearing doesn't mean every x*chance times the town name is generated
21:41:26  <izhirahider> I must be doing something wrong, damn it. Even on a big 2048x2048 map, only 14 names are generated
21:41:35  <izhirahider> grrr
21:46:30  <CIA-1> bjarni * r7626 /trunk/os/macosx/ (4 files):
21:46:30  <CIA-1> -Fix r7600: [OSX] building release dmg files no longer includes console.txt, since we don't have that file anymore (this made dmg building fail)
21:46:30  <CIA-1> -Cleanup: [OSX] removed the link files since they aren't needed and broken anyway
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22:03:37  <Brianetta> KUDr:
22:04:00  <Brianetta> KUDr: grfs are at
22:04:39  <KUDr> thanks
22:04:53  <KUDr> why there is no link at your page
22:05:08  <Brianetta> It's not legal yet, as the required READMEs aren't in there
22:05:16  <Brianetta> I'm working ion that now
22:05:22  <KUDr> do you know how much time i spent with it without result?
22:05:30  <Brianetta> I'm also looking at changing the versions for more widely available ones
22:05:51  <KUDr> hmm
22:06:07  *** DJ_Mirage [] has joined #openttd
22:06:30  <KUDr> then users complain and i can't help them -> hate 'legal' stuff
22:06:35  <peter1138> yeah, newer versions available
22:06:42  <Brianetta> peter1138: And older...
22:06:48  <KUDr> you should use only grfs that are absolutelly free
22:07:05  <Brianetta> KUDr: Some are GPL, some are "freely redistributable with this readme"
22:07:11  <Brianetta> Which are freer?
22:07:19  *** MeusH [] has joined #openttd
22:07:28  <Brianetta> I can use non-free if I like
22:07:33  <MeusH> hey
22:07:33  <peter1138> KUDr: then we miss out on decent stuff, heh
22:07:35  <Brianetta> I just can't distribute them
22:07:57  *** pecisk [] has quit [Quit: J?iet prom]
22:08:08  <KUDr> peter1138: if somebody restricts its use its not decent
22:08:21  <Brianetta> All the grfs are Pikka, Blunck or Aegir... the latter are older versions taken from the GPL'd stations pack
22:08:41  <KUDr> or there should be the link inside grfs which we should save in savegame
22:08:48  <MeusH> is considered to be OpenTTD forum or OpenTTD fora (aka forums)... I mean, is it singular or plural? :)
22:09:14  <Brianetta> MeusH: Both, probably
22:09:25  <peter1138> forum is plural, iirc
22:09:44  <peter1138> or maybe that was smething else
22:09:54  <Brianetta> forum is singular
22:10:06  <KUDr> one forum, two forum..?
22:10:12  <Brianetta> question is, is a forum or a collection of forums?
22:10:14  <Bjarni> two forums
22:10:34  <hylje> newgrf info should have licence parameters
22:10:34  <Bjarni> the name indicates the latter
22:10:41  <KUDr> two forums collected together is also forum or not?
22:10:42  <Brianetta> hylje: Natually, yes
22:10:42  <MeusH> anyway, can OpenTTD category be named "OpenTTD forum" or "OpenTTD forums"?
22:10:56  <Brianetta> MeusH: That's definitely a yes
22:11:01  <peter1138> newgrf info is pretty much freeform, which the only restriction being there must be two c-style strings...
22:11:12  <MeusH> lol Brianetta, the first one or the second one? :)
22:11:21  <peter1138> again, yes :)
22:11:23  <hylje> either a common licence or a custom one: series of booleans describing what can and what can not be done
22:11:23  <Brianetta> MeusH: Yes, one of those
22:11:48  <hylje> then the game could determine can it automagically distribute the newgrf to joining clients
22:11:54  <Brianetta> hylje: Too restrictive, by far
22:12:04  <Brianetta> You can't be automagic about that
22:12:58  <MeusH> I'll choose forums. Thanks guys :)
22:13:07  <hylje> it could be just a field that explicitly allows distribution for multiplayer games
22:13:34  <hylje> wouldnt stop rogue servers from tweaking said newgrf though
22:13:49  <KUDr> Brianetta! finally i can load this game!
22:13:53  <KUDr> thanks
22:13:56  <Brianetta> Also, what about licenses that allow redistribution in certain circumstances?
22:14:35  <Brianetta> KUDr: Licenses are all GPL except Michael Blunck's, which are non-commercial and should be accompanied by the readme I didn't send you
22:14:40  <KUDr> there should be for example the option to pack all grfs used by the game
22:15:05  <hylje> i'd not overcomplicate it and just have a flag to either not allow or allow multiplayer propagation
22:15:08  <KUDr> forget it
22:15:14  <KUDr> it is not distribution
22:15:18  <KUDr> it is debugging
22:15:24  <Brianetta> (:
22:15:47  <Brianetta> 22:15 <sarah_pilot> Elmokki has joined the game
22:15:47  <Brianetta> 22:15 <sarah_pilot> Elmokki has left the game (desync error)
22:15:50  <Brianetta> Was that found?
22:16:15  <peter1138> instant desync :D
22:16:27  <KUDr> Brianetta: what commands do you use for autopilot?
22:16:46  <Brianetta> Which console commands?
22:16:48  <KUDr> i ask because of script interface for autopilot
22:16:56  <Bjarni> <--- just saw this on a list of pictures, that are candidates for the funniest picture taken this year
22:17:15  <KUDr> so what commands/functions should be visible from the script
22:17:46  <Brianetta> I'm not sure I understand
22:18:07  <KUDr> Brianetta: console commands plus some extra things supported by your script engine (like regexp)
22:18:12  *** Nigel_ is now known as Nigel
22:18:26  <Brianetta> The sript engine is Expect
22:18:34  <Brianetta> which is a Tcl superset
22:18:43  <Brianetta> and can therefore do pretty much anything
22:18:59  <KUDr> yes, but ottd will have script inside (hopefully)
22:19:13  <Brianetta> Well, autopilot has IRC and MySQL
22:19:16  <KUDr> so i need to know if i should support something extra for you
22:19:36  <KUDr> hmm
22:19:44  <Brianetta> autopilot can do anything that a user sat at the dedicated console can do
22:20:03  <KUDr> ok
22:20:06  <Bjarni> o_O
22:20:13  <Brianetta> Bjarni: In theory
22:20:18  <Bjarni> it can fart and pick it's on nose???
22:20:23  <Brianetta> If I tell it, yes
22:20:27  <Brianetta> it couls play fart.wav
22:20:50  <peter1138> can it go bust as regularly as roboboy?
22:20:52  <Brianetta> My server is currently bridged to #autopilot on here
22:20:55  *** DJ_Mirage [] has quit [Quit:]
22:21:04  <Bjarni> peter1138: is that even possible?
22:21:23  <peter1138> probably not
22:21:53  * Bjarni notes not to invest in roboboy's company
22:22:27  <Brianetta> "Hey look, my Hindenburg blimps are about to arrive and make their first... NOOO!!!!11!!1eleven"
22:22:56  *** egladil [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:23:04  <Bjarni> 11?
22:23:15  <Bjarni> it contains 11 Huns dropping bombs?
22:23:22  <Brianetta> eventy-one
22:23:25  <Brianetta> cos(0)
22:24:36  <peter1138> meh
22:24:37  <peter1138> bye bye
22:25:11  *** egladil [] has joined #openttd
22:25:14  <MeusH> bye peter1138
22:25:17  <MeusH> hi egladil
22:26:42  <egladil> hi
22:26:50  <Brianetta>
22:28:14  <hylje> !
22:28:39  <SpComb> "since eleventyone cannot be typed by accident."
22:28:55  <Brianetta> can
22:28:59  <Brianetta> like
22:29:02  <Brianetta> there we go
22:29:04  <Brianetta> oopseleventyoneeleventyoneeleventyoneeleventyone
22:29:11  <Brianetta> just a middle-eleventyoneclick
22:29:19  <SpComb> somewhat
22:29:24  <Brianetta> coul dhappen to anyeleventyone
22:29:51  <Brianetta> and if you dedicated a key on the keyboard to it
22:29:57  <Brianetta> typos-a-plenty
22:30:54  <Darkvater> blathijs: here
22:33:41  *** ufoun [~opera@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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22:35:48  <Bjarni> Darkvater: I wondered about RC2. I looked though all the commits I did since RC1 and they should all be backported to RC2 once somebody starts to do that
22:36:02  <Darkvater> ok, good I"ll take a look tomorrow
22:36:33  <Bjarni> maybe except that debug typo one. It depends on if the debug changes should be backported as well
22:37:10  <Bjarni> also it would be wise to alert me before actually tagging because some of the changes broke the ability to build dmg files. I fixed it for now, but there is a risk that backporting might break it again
22:38:36  <Bjarni> I am truly sorry. <-- wow, best thing SirkoZ said in the RC1 thread
22:39:34  <glx> he finallt understood
22:39:44  <glx> -t+y
22:39:58  <Bjarni> either that or it was too dangerous to have the whole thread against him
22:46:41  <stillunknown> if (u->next == NULL) {
22:46:49  <stillunknown> anyone know what is wrong with this?
22:48:10  <ln-> if u is NULL, it crashes.
22:48:30  <Athorium>  Bjarni the feature "townbuildnoroads" will be implemented in OTTD?
22:48:51  *** Digitalfox [] has joined #openttd
22:49:06  <stillunknown> ln-: it isn't, just curious why it's never triggered
22:49:20  *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-83-100-202-4.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
22:49:24  *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-83-100-202-4.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit []
22:50:10  <MeusH> ln- I'd like to ask you a question
22:50:17  <ln-> go ahead
22:50:18  <MeusH> about the city of ?owicz :)
22:50:29  <MeusH> what was inside the bottle
22:50:34  <MeusH> ?
22:51:10  <ln-> Sok z czerwonych grejpfrutów.
22:51:10  *** Zr40 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:51:30  <Athorium> The feature "townbuildnoroads" will be implemented in OTTD?
22:51:56  <MeusH> ln- you've almost made be rotfl :)
22:52:06  <MeusH> do you know what kind of drink is that?
22:52:48  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7627 /branches/makefile_rewrite/ ( os/debian/rules):
22:52:48  <CIA-1> [MakefileRewrite] -Change: clean up 'make install' (make use of install)
22:52:48  <CIA-1> [MakefileRewrite] -Fix: Debian's packaging configuration
22:52:55  *** helb [~helb@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:53:03  <ln-> since i drank it, i have some kind of idea, yeah... although now that you ask, it makes me worry whether there was something dangerous mixed in it. :)
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22:54:07  <MeusH> that was Citrus × paradisi drink
22:54:57  <MeusH> Asians don't eat it
22:55:11  <MeusH> But people from other parts of the world like it
22:55:18  <MeusH> Poles, however, make a vodka from it
22:55:18  <ln-> grapefruit juice
22:55:23  <MeusH> yes :)
22:56:12  <ln-> hmm, yeah juice is ??? in russian, i thought that sounded somehow familiar.
22:57:56  <MeusH> how do you know?
22:58:06  <MeusH> did you use polish>russian>suomi translator? :)
23:01:36  <Peakki> hey! does anyone know what's wrong - i set train service interval to 90 in the game menu. now i built a train and checked the info, and it says service interval 150
23:02:07  <stillunknown> two questions: can YAPF be considered the pathfinder (don't worry about the others)?
23:02:23  <stillunknown> has reliability per engine ever considered and interaction between the two?
23:03:05  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
23:03:15  <MeusH> Peakki, I don't know, but check whether the changes are saved
23:03:34  <MeusH> check if 90 remains after restart
23:03:42  <Rubidium> stillunknown: answer on first question is no
23:04:07  <Rubidium> and what do you mean by question 2?
23:04:17  <MeusH> stillunknown, do you mean dual engine train?
23:04:32  <stillunknown> or N engined
23:04:35  <stillunknown> but, yes
23:04:41  *** GoneWack1 [] has joined #openttd
23:05:14  <MeusH> do you mean that only the reiliabity of first engine in a consist is taken into account?
23:05:19  <MeusH> similiar to vehicle aging?
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23:05:41  <stillunknown> i mean that two trains don't improve reliability
23:05:59  <MeusH> they seem not to do so
23:06:05  <CIA-1> KUDr * r7628 /trunk/yapf/ (yapf_costrail.hpp yapf_rail.cpp): -Fix: [YAPF] suppress 'Train is lost' message if pathfinding ended on the first two-way red signal due to yapf.rail_firstred_twoway_eol option.
23:06:14  *** GoneWacko [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:06:18  <Peakki> hmm. restart seemed to work. quite odd tho that it wouldn't be effective before that
23:08:43  <Rubidium> stillunknown: I *think* you are right with the assumption that two trains do not improve reliability, but I'll try to find out
23:09:03  <stillunknown> they DO improve reliability in real life
23:09:31  <stillunknown> but in the game, no, the first engine specs are used
23:09:51  <stillunknown> MeusH: i'll try multiple engine interaction after i (hopefully) get ride trough maintenance into trunk
23:10:47  <Rubidium> stillunknown: seems reliability is not influenced by other engines
23:10:56  <mattt_> how does vehicle replacement work - that is, after i give the order to start replacing, when does a train make its way to the nearest depot?
23:11:11  <stillunknown> it only replaces when it normally reaches a depot
23:11:23  <mattt_> oh!
23:11:25  <mattt_> hm
23:12:17  <mattt_> but if i tell it to go to the depot, the replacement will take place, eh?
23:12:41  <Rubidium> yes
23:15:51  *** Guest56 [] has joined #openttd
23:16:09  <TinoM|> !players
23:16:11  <TinoM|> !player
23:18:22  <stillunknown> i used to know this, but were is the default Waypoint string defined (the waypoint part of it)?
23:18:42  <stillunknown> strgen.c or strings.h doesn't seem to be it
23:19:00  <Rubidium> stillunknown: lang/english.txt
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23:26:37  <gass> hello there
23:26:39  <gass>
23:26:45  <gass> is this music legal?
23:28:11  <Rubidium> if you own the CD I think it is (or have paid for a license)
23:31:08  <Bjarni> actually depending on where you live, the break of copyright is just that, breaking copyright, not breaking the law. You can then be forced to compensate the copyrightholder's loss (in most cases: he didn't sell you anything). It's not illegal by law, so you risk going to jail
23:31:27  <Bjarni> some countries do ban it by law, so you can get a fine/jail on top of this
23:32:20  <gass> my question
23:32:40  <Bjarni> as for that specific piece of music... I can't tell you
23:32:43  <gass> was in the way copyrights given
23:33:15  <Bjarni> if you want a valid answer, pay a lawyer to give it to you
23:33:16  <gass> if it is just a remake of the original music and therefor still under copyright of the original author ...
23:33:34  <gass> Bjarni: ok, ok ... openttd does not ship any music, right?
23:33:45  <hylje> nope
23:33:54  <Bjarni> there aren't any music in your downloads
23:34:01  <Bjarni> if you read the readme, you would know
23:34:03  <gass> i haven't played openttd in a lot of time
23:34:20  <gass> sorry
23:34:29  <Bjarni> it talks about adding the gm files from TTD. Other people calls that type of files for midi files, but TTD calls them gm
23:34:42  <gass> yes
23:34:50  <gass> they are midi files renamed to .gm
23:35:12  <Bjarni> you add them, not us, so if you pirate them, it's a case between you and whoever owns the copyright. We didn't violate anything there
23:35:52  <Bjarni> the same goes for (sound fx) and the grf files (graphics)
23:35:55  <gass> Bjarni: i know all that ...
23:35:59  <stillunknown> is KUDr the only one with reasonable knowledge of YAPF?
23:36:14  <Bjarni> stillunknown: he coded it, so he should know stuff about it
23:36:20  <MeusH> he's the one who coded it
23:36:29  <gass> Bjarni: my idea is that openttd can be a full game some day ... and i was asking if there is some music shipped ... or if that is suitable for shipping
23:36:30  <KUDr> with 'some' knowledge only
23:36:38  <Bjarni> I didn't code it and I hardly even know C++, so I'm not the right one to ask about it
23:37:36  <Bjarni> gass: I don't think we actually got any music or sound effects to add, but if anybody can donate it to us, we would be a great deal closer to not be dependant on TTD
23:37:45  <stillunknown> KUDr: i'm trying to make ride trough maintenance and i'm considering a maintenance cycle based penalty
23:38:03  <gass> Bjarni: that's my point ...
23:38:22  <KUDr> stillunknown: try to express in english
23:38:47  <KUDr> what exactly do you mean?
23:38:51  <Bjarni> stillunknown: get the thing to work first by planning a route through your magic tile and once it work, you can consider stuff like making YAPF aware of it
23:38:52  <stillunknown> i'm making waypoints that repair
23:39:23  <Bjarni> stillunknown: right now it's like talking about the colour of the car before you know if you got an engine or wheels. It would be nice to make priorities
23:39:47  <stillunknown> there is a higher level awareness of these kind of things?
23:39:52  <stillunknown> wasn't aware of that
23:39:56  <KUDr> stillunknown: sounds good but did you consult the idea with devs?
23:40:55  <KUDr> the problem could be that we can use negative penalty so it can be bit tricky
23:41:18  <stillunknown> do you know what Bjarni spoke of?
23:41:22  <KUDr> ughh 'we can' -> 'we can't'
23:41:48  <stillunknown> because i'm making passive objects, that you can drop into a network
23:42:11  <stillunknown> not depots that trains will actually visit if they need repair
23:42:14  <Bjarni> gass: well, making a point that we already agreed on didn't bring us any closer to the goal. Do you have anything to add regarding this that can be productive?
23:42:21  <KUDr> stillunknown: so it will repair train on the fly?
23:42:33  <Athorium> The feature "townbuildnoroads" will be implemented in OTTD?
23:42:45  <KUDr> then i think it would be better to disable servicing completelly
23:42:48  <stillunknown> it will check if it needs repair, slow the train down, move forward, repair next part, etc
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23:43:00  <KUDr> aha
23:43:01  <gass> Bjarni: no, sorry. just saw those music files available ... and thought openttd already had them. thank you for your talk.
23:43:11  <KUDr> so like 'pass thru' depots?
23:43:16  <stillunknown> yes
23:43:23  <KUDr> hmm
23:43:31  <KUDr> seems good
23:43:39  <stillunknown> but they have 61 km/h ridetrough speed if no repair
23:43:44  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7629 /trunk/openttd.c: -Fix: the CLI parameter for joining a network game is "-n ip:port#player", not "-n ip#player:port" as the help text suggests.
23:43:49  <Bjarni> why 61?
23:43:55  <stillunknown> depot speed
23:43:59  <Bjarni> ahh
23:44:02  <Bjarni> makes sense
23:44:03  <KUDr> once it will be working i can look at it more deeply, ok?
23:44:13  <stillunknown> it's working
23:44:20  <Bjarni> already?
23:44:24  <KUDr> ohh really?
23:44:25  <stillunknown> yes
23:44:29  <Bjarni> that was quick
23:44:30  <KUDr> diff?
23:45:03  <mattt_> hm
23:45:23  <stillunknown> any place that let's me upload files and not text?
23:45:23  <mattt_> would the pathfinding algorithm maintain information like the number of tiles along the path?
23:45:46  <stillunknown> since patches are tricky when copied from text in my experience
23:46:04  <Bjarni> try DCC then
23:46:06  <KUDr> 'copied from text'?
23:46:16  <Bjarni> like if he paste it in PM
23:46:21  <KUDr> aha
23:46:21  <stillunknown> or onto rafb
23:46:40  <KUDr> put the diff on forums
23:46:47  <KUDr> or use DCC
23:47:28  <Bjarni> I tend to put files like that at a secret location on, but that would not work for you ;)
23:47:56  <Bjarni> well, not that secret, just a location that isn't reachable though links from
23:48:55  <stillunknown>
23:49:18  <Bjarni> that one works as well
23:49:22  <Bjarni> hmm
23:49:29  <Bjarni> I know that domain :)
23:49:40  <stillunknown> it hasn't had long testing yet
23:49:50  <Athorium> what makes this patch?
23:50:12  <MeusH> you aren't maathijs, are you?
23:50:17  <stillunknown> no
23:50:22  <Bjarni> it's as every other diff file here... it's "as is" and might blow up your computer, but that's not likely
23:50:38  <Bjarni> or Rubidium
23:50:50  <stillunknown> Athorium: not so pretty ride trough maintenance
23:50:52  <Bjarni> you might have met them in real life though
23:51:30  <stillunknown> depends, i do applied physics
23:51:59  <stillunknown> and i don't make a habit of going to a lot of places on the university
23:52:04  <Athorium> I need a townbuildnoroads!!! :(
23:52:14  <stillunknown> make it yourself :-)
23:52:34  <Athorium> i don't know C
23:53:10  <stillunknown> KUDr: the second waypoint icon (before the landscape icon) is the one you want
23:53:16  <Bjarni> stillunknown: +	bool being_repaired; // NOSAVE: used by ride trough repair systems <-- are you sure it will not need to be saved?
23:53:52  <stillunknown> good point, just notet NOSAVE so i would remember
23:53:53  <Rubidium> well, I'm sure it needs to be saved :)
23:54:00  <stillunknown> *noted
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23:54:07  <Bjarni> if you do not save it, you need to set it and clear it in the same loop before there is a chance to save
23:54:10  <MeusH> Athorium, tbh you don't need to know C
23:54:17  <MeusH> hi C :D
23:54:26  <KUDr> stillunknown: compilling..
23:54:41  <MeusH> Athorium, if you open the right file in a text editor, you will see words, not a scary assembler code
23:54:44  <C> so, Athorium now you now C :)
23:54:52  <MeusH> you will be able to read it and edit
23:54:53  <Bjarni> Athorium: meet C, who you just claimed not to know :D
23:55:12  <stillunknown> away for a minute or two
23:55:19  <Athorium> mmmmmm...
23:55:22  <Athorium> C++ -_-'
23:55:45  <Athorium> I don't know how to make the patch allright?
23:55:46  <Athorium> -_-'
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23:56:14  <KUDr> Athorium: then bother to read svn/tortoise manual
23:56:14  <Naksu> not knowing doesnt exclude you from trying
23:56:20  <MeusH> :o
23:56:35  <Athorium> but, I don't know where start it...
23:56:41  <Naksu> even i tried to make a patch once :D
23:56:50  <KUDr> try it from beginning
23:56:54  <gass> error compiling trunk -> misc_gui.c:1186: error: size of array 'a' is negative
23:56:58  <Athorium> and... where's beginning?
23:57:07  <KUDr> if it will not work then you can try the opposite direction
23:57:26  <gass> Athorium: svn diff
23:57:41  <Athorium> ?
23:57:43  <C> I would go for svn checkout to start with :)
23:57:44  <gass> Athorium: there is a good svn manual
23:58:00  <C> <- there
23:58:16  <KUDr> yes, good manual
23:58:33  <Tuzlo> how longs a train wreck take to clean up?
23:59:06  <C> and maybe will help you too :)

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