Log for #openttd on 20th January 2007:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:09  <SpComb> 1) spam people so much that they grow sick of it 2) spam people with a trojan that promises to "stop spam" 3) use the people that run that trojan to spam even more
00:00:59  <Kosma> it's all about the "security"
00:01:02  * SpComb has four computers plus a rented server in germany
00:01:14  <Kosma> windows pops up a warning that a program may be dangerous but users will just click "yes"
00:01:37  <Kosma> I have a colocated server in Nederlands plus endless number of shells
00:01:43  <Kosma> it's so annoying
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00:01:50  <Kosma> when you constantly have to fix them all
00:01:51  *** Zaviori [~Zavior@] has quit [Quit: ( :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: )]
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00:02:13  <SpComb> I'm the main sysadmin of a group of three for my boarding school
00:02:33  <SpComb> don't get paid anything, don't get specific time to do stuff, no budget, etc
00:02:41  <Darkvater> gn all
00:02:44  <SpComb> it's not actually as good a thing as I thought it might have been
00:02:58  <SpComb> a ton of stupid things to fix and no intrest
00:03:15  <Kosma> how old are you btw?
00:03:22  <SpComb> although this evening I (gasp) plugged in one of the wireless access points that the power cable fell about about a month ago
00:03:28  <SpComb> I'd also noticed this fact a week or so ago
00:03:30  <SpComb> 17
00:03:56  <SpComb> (noticed, based on internal smokeping site)
00:04:18  <Kosma> man, being a sysadmin really sucks
00:04:32  <SpComb> esp. when you have to do it on your free time and with no pay or anything
00:04:39  <Kosma> even when you get paid it still sucks
00:04:50  <SpComb> occasionally it can be fun, but more often it's really stupid
00:05:04  <SpComb> although then there's fun stuff that can happen
00:05:11  <Kosma> because you exchange your precious time, your life and your friends for a command line and very little money ;)
00:05:20  <Kosma> okay, occasionally
00:05:33  <SpComb> like this one thing that happaned the other day to another sysadmin, some trainee pulled two disks out of a RAID5 array for some unknown reason
00:06:06  *** blindwaves [] has joined #openttd
00:06:11  <Kosma> did you recovered it? :D
00:06:19  <SpComb> not me, but he did, yes
00:06:46  <SpComb> and this summer two of the hard drives in the RAID5 array in our server failed within three days of eachother (actually, I suspect the IDE controller did)
00:07:18  <SpComb> we had the new server that we intended to replace the old one with running, but we hadn't actually configured it yet (really annoying thing)
00:07:39  <SpComb> and I was the only one who was actually at school, and the network was down totally
00:07:58  <SpComb> spent a fun day or two recovering everything and setting up the new server
00:08:06  <Kosma> and got nothing
00:08:20  <SpComb> I did volunteer for this
00:08:20  <Kosma> am I right? ;]
00:08:30  <Kosma> it's nice to learn new things
00:08:50  <SpComb> but hey, I get this thing on my CV that says I was a sysadmin for a year at the age of 16/17 \o
00:09:06  <Kosma> yeah, that really counts
00:09:27  <Kosma> I got my first Cisco certificate when I was 17, but that doesn't count ;-)
00:09:27  <SpComb> and our network actually works quite well, and doesn't have any really blatant security holes or anything
00:09:48  <SpComb> but there there are these fun issues like the backup server's hard drive crashing
00:10:03  <SpComb> the backup daemon process is running in memory though, so as long as one doesn't reboot it it's fine
00:10:11  <Kosma> yeah
00:10:25  <SpComb> the hard drive has a fun number of bad blocks, I don't have very much faith in it rebooting very happily
00:10:25  <Kosma> it's just the experience that makes you learn how to prevent and react to such things
00:10:33  <SpComb> well, it's been running like that for a week or so now
00:10:57  <SpComb> need to salvage an old hard drive from somewhere that actually works and move the / partition over
00:12:08  <Kosma> is your network a non-profit one on does someone make cash out of it?
00:12:23  <SpComb> it's a school's network
00:12:32  <Kosma> okay, I see
00:12:34  <SpComb> the school is for-profit in some way, iirc, not quite sure
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00:12:47  <Kosma> yeah, but it's still a school's network
00:12:55  <Kosma> so when something fails it's not a huge disaster
00:13:08  <SpComb> my IRC dies :(
00:13:13  <SpComb> I've been on freenode for a month now!
00:13:22  <SpComb> well, in two days I will have
00:13:28  <Kosma> you see, there are thousands of ways for a server to dia
00:13:35  <Kosma> we had a FreeBSD machine
00:13:43  <Kosma> with a hundred accounts or so, commercial ones
00:13:51  <Kosma> and some day it just died, disappeared
00:14:01  <SpComb> disappeared?
00:14:12  <Kosma> it took us two days to figure out where the hell is it standing (all we knew was IP address and root password :D)
00:14:26  <Kosma> disappeared, I mean it stopped responding to pings
00:14:28  <SpComb> ehe
00:14:46  <Kosma> when we arrived on place, it turned out that someone accidentaly turned off the UPS...
00:14:51  <Kosma> we had 140 days of uptime
00:14:53  <Kosma> *sigh*
00:15:02  <SpComb> the one with the ethernet cable dissapearing into a hole in a brick wall where a small room used to be before the building got renovated?
00:15:34  <SpComb> our firewall had 363 days of uptime when we had this pre-announced 2.5 hour powerout
00:15:58  <Kosma> you could've tried a software suspend :D
00:16:00  <SpComb> oh, and after the power came back on, the NAT for the office failed to go back online by itself, and I never knew about this
00:16:14  <Kosma> yep
00:16:49  <Kosma> when machine is up for so long one just forgets to alter the initscripts to reflect the current configuration
00:16:52  <SpComb> fixed it in 5 minutes the next day when I got informed, but we got a small lecture about how we should at least tell them when something is wrong and when it'll be fixed
00:17:02  <SpComb> they complained about it to this one admin, but he failed to tell anyone else
00:17:46  <Kosma> this sucks
00:18:03  <Kosma> so the system was working flawlessly for one year and they got pissed off because of one day? ;]
00:18:25  <SpComb> well, the issue was that they complained about it, and then heard nothing about it until the next day
00:18:53  <Kosma> that's why it's important to choose the right person that should be notified about problems
00:19:05  * Kosma is such person in his company... *sigh*
00:19:12  <Kosma> I hate those phone calls
00:19:35  <SpComb> then there was the one office worker installing a fancy new networked laser printer into the other building's computer lab
00:19:52  <SpComb> issue was, it didn't have a password and had port 80 wide open to the outside world
00:20:06  <SpComb> told us about it a month later or so
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00:20:58  <Kosma> you mean, anyone in the world could print on it? ;)
00:21:36  <SpComb> printers aren'y really the most security-oriented devices ever. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some remote code-execution thing in them
00:22:24  <Kosma> never thought about that
00:22:28  <Kosma> printer exploits, lol
00:22:37  <SpComb> entirely possible
00:22:53  <Kosma> yeah, they have cpu and firmware just like anything else
00:23:08  <SpComb> and even if you do have them firewalled from the net... it only takes one employee with their windows laptop that got infected with a million viruses at home to connect to your network...
00:23:16  <SpComb> they can run linux/windows themselves
00:24:35  <SpComb> and then they could do fun stuff like modify all documents that get printed, sending off copies of them all somewhere, printing out child porn, etc
00:25:05  <Kosma> printer security...
00:25:17  <SpComb> indeed
00:25:20  <Kosma> damn, you have a great knowledge
00:25:26  <SpComb> or the printers can be used to DDoS some place
00:25:41  <SpComb> well, there was an article about that on slashdot this morning
00:25:50  <SpComb> (although I was aware of the problem before that)
00:27:23  <Kosma> the world scares me
00:28:10  <SpComb> DRM, botnets, microsoft, spam, all very worrying things
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00:28:25  <Kosma> DRM at the first place
00:28:34  <Kosma> it *really* scares me
00:28:39  <Kosma> let's talk about something more pleasant
00:28:43  <SpComb> botnets? :)
00:28:45  <Kosma> like transporting livestock to towns
00:28:46  <Kosma> okay? :D
00:29:16  <SpComb>
00:31:21  <Kosma> just remember one thing
00:31:32  <Kosma> if you try really hard *not* to think about something
00:31:38  <Kosma> it will probably just go away
00:31:56  <SpComb>
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00:32:27  <Sacro> SDBot is written in very poor C and also published under the GPL.
00:32:29  <Sacro> how nice
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00:33:05  <SpComb> yeah, there's two bots, one that's very badly written, and very widely used, and another that's very well written, but nobody uses it
00:33:10  <SpComb> script kiddies are funny people
00:33:19  <SpComb> and it's also different from SpBotII *fumes*
00:34:56  <SpComb> a) it's written in python b) it's very nice c) it does nice things d) it's not yet complete
00:35:12  <SpComb> although they both do act as IRC bots and form a botnet (at least, SpBotII will, eventually)
00:38:17  <Kosma> why not write one yourself?
00:38:20  <Kosma> it's not that hard
00:38:35  <SpComb> one what?
00:38:38  <Kosma> bot ;)
00:38:45  <SpComb>
00:43:30  <Kosma> I regret I've ever asked
00:43:33  <Kosma> this stuff is evil ;)
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01:22:34  <Digitalfox> SpComb who wited SpBotII ?? You??
01:22:44  <Digitalfox> *writed
01:22:55  <Bjarni> *wrote
01:23:04  <Digitalfox> Bjarni: Yeah.. :)
01:23:34  <SpComb> Digitalfox: yes, I'm the only person writing it
01:23:50  <Digitalfox> Nice project :)
01:25:15  *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas
01:25:28  <Belugas> hellooo all
01:25:30  <SpComb> thanks
01:25:38  * SpComb just has to figure out some issues and continue on it
01:26:28  <Digitalfox> SpComb: How mutch time have you already spend at this project?
01:27:20  <SpComb> some percentage of the christmas holidays
01:27:28  <SpComb> and a bit of time before and after
01:28:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> some people would do anything to avoid spending time with their family :p
01:29:24  <Sacro> Bjarni: ironic seeing you correcting english
01:36:24  <Kosma> Eddi|zuHause3: that's why computers do suck
01:36:35  <Kosma> they make you antisocial...
01:36:56  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, blame it on the computers
01:39:15  <Smoovious> do parameters for GRF files, _have_ to be used, and if I don't use them, how would that affect the GRF?
01:39:48  <Sacro> Smoovious: no, depends
01:40:48  <Eddi|zuHause3> Smoovious: usually, GRFs specify default parameters, which are used, when the parameters are not specified
01:41:11  <Kosma> Eddi|zuHause3: of course... the cigarettes are not bad, the people who smoke are... right?
01:41:23  <Kosma> but cigarettes do have warning labels on them and computers don't
01:42:35  <Eddi|zuHause3> this is a stupid discussion, that i will not go into
01:42:55  <Kosma> yeah, you're right
01:43:00  <Eddi|zuHause3> (especially since the original phrase was supposed to be sarcastic)
01:43:04  <Kosma> in fact I'd better go
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01:44:19  <Smoovious> the GRF's in question are pb_av8w.grf and pb_nars.grf
01:44:38  <Sacro> Smoovious: ask him then
01:44:44  <Smoovious> ask who?
01:44:53  <Sacro> ah your not in #tycoon on quakenet
01:45:05  <Smoovious> nope
01:45:09  <Smoovious> on 4 networks already
01:45:21  <Sacro> welll Pikka has just gone in there
01:45:22  <Smoovious> no biggie... will just set em
01:47:53  <roboboy> does reliability drop to zero when trains get old?
01:48:28  <roboboy> peter1138 you just went bust
01:52:26  <roboboy> hello
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01:57:56  <Sacro> rawr
01:59:13  <SpComb> hmm... that's an interesting question that I don't know how to answer myself: why do you write open-source code?
01:59:27  <SpComb> as in, why do you write source code and then release it for all to read & use?
02:01:02  <Sacro> *shrugs*
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02:02:27  <Sacro> grrr, what kind of site issues times in Mexico Central Time
02:03:18  <SpComb> hehe
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03:43:33  <Sacro> this signal system confuddles me
03:44:05  <Sacro> :o
03:44:09  <Sacro> Callers Graph ftuw
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04:15:05  * roboboy signlas Sacro
04:15:16  <Sacro> :o
04:15:23  * Sacro plays with hsi NOR signals
04:15:25  <roboboy> sinals
04:15:34  <roboboy> where
04:15:46  <roboboy> is this something on teh web youre reading?
04:15:53  <Sacro> ?
04:16:15  <roboboy> the stuff about signals you were talking about earlier
04:16:23  <Sacro> wah?
04:16:30  * Sacro is confuuuzed
04:16:48  <roboboy> this signal system confuddles me
04:17:10  <roboboy> <Sacro> this signal system confuddles me
04:18:00  <Sacro> yes
04:18:03  <Sacro> i was reading the code
04:19:50  <roboboy> ok
04:26:17  <Sacro> i created NOR signals :D
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06:17:12  <Ailure> hehe ehehe mmh
06:18:31  <hylje> :o
06:18:35  <hylje> u r teh b
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06:20:25  <Ailure> weer
06:24:42  <Ailure> mrew
06:24:48  <hylje> :O
06:27:24  <Ailure> !2na stats
06:27:26  <Ailure> eh
06:27:27  <Ailure> wrong channel
06:27:29  <Ailure> sdfd
06:31:33  <hylje> asdf
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08:09:54  <DaleStan> MiHaMiX: <-- Korean translation. And the Translator's guide thread is AWOL. (As I mention in the following post.)
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08:50:06  <peter1138> morning
08:51:03  <caladan> morning
08:53:12  <Tron> morning, peter1138
08:53:38  <Tron> should the "New $FOO" buttons in the vehicle lists be renamed to "Available $FOO"?
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09:04:18  <peter1138> i think i mentioned that before
09:13:13  <KUDr> gm
09:20:01  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r8286 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Add: Korean translation by Ezi
09:20:33  <peter1138> morning kudr
09:21:01  <KUDr> morning
09:23:56  <DaleStan> peter1138: I realize it doesn't have exclusive access, but isn't the webtranslator the preferred tool?
09:24:13  <DaleStan> Of course, I can no longer find the thread that says that.
09:25:02  <peter1138> i imagine it's a lot more tedious for an initial translation
09:25:17  <peter1138> (but i don't know, i don't have any access to wt2)
09:27:10  <DaleStan> Translating around 3000 strings has got to be tedious no matter how you do it.
09:42:18  <Tron> it's way more convenient to do it in a simple text editor
09:44:28  <Tron> peter1138: ^M
09:45:05  <peter1138> poo
09:45:15  <Tron> 3116 of them (;
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09:49:57  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r8287 /trunk/src/lang/korean.txt: -Fix (r8286): forgot to check for newline format, sorry...
09:51:08  <Wolf01> ello
09:51:39  <peter1138> bah, i need to go out :(
09:52:03  <Tron> be careful! high oxygen level, the daystar ...
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10:04:46  <peter1138> indeed
10:19:54  <Tron> something is fishy in CheckCompatibleRail()
10:23:19  <peter1138> return true? hmmm
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10:33:47  <Tron> peter1138: no, the to compatible checks
10:36:56  <peter1138> oh
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11:26:25  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r8288 /trunk/src/video/cocoa_v.m:
11:26:25  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: [OSX] compiling with debug enabled now works again
11:26:25  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  -This is once again an obj-C vs C++ issue. I need to make a nice and permanent solution soon, but I need the debugger right now
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11:49:14  <Maedhros> heh
11:49:35  * Maedhros has found out why the profit graph is so broken...
11:50:36  <Maedhros> GraphDrawer::cost is a uint64, but when drawing the graph each player's income and expenses are added together
11:51:03  <Maedhros> both of them are int32s, and it's quite possible for expenses to be more negative than income is positive, giving ridiculous values for cost
11:51:32  <Maedhros> e.g.  Cost: 18446744073709550252, income: 2249, expenses: -3613
11:52:36  <Wolf01> where is the newhouses max version set?
11:54:05  <Maedhros> umm, what do you mean?
11:55:21  <Wolf01> i can't load a savegame since some time ago, so i want to try to increase the max version for the newhouses
11:56:26  <Wolf01> or i can restart again the game for the third time...
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11:57:14  <Maedhros> well, the savegame versions have increased several times, due to changes in trunk
11:58:22  <Wolf01> the version is set to 44 since i'm playing that game
11:58:40  <Wolf01> so something is changed but the savegame version was not increased
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12:00:31  <Maedhros> yes, house ids and the grfids they correspond to were added to the savegame in r8064
12:02:47  <peter1138> Wolf01: branches are made to work with trunk savegame changes, not their own previous changes
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12:03:34  <Maedhros> proposed fix for the profit graphs:
12:05:01  <Tron> hm, looks sensible. Are those casts necessary at all?
12:07:27  <Maedhros> gcc doesn't complain if i remove them
12:07:33  * Maedhros looks up when they were added
12:10:51  <Wolf01> peter1138, but a savegame made before a branch merge should work also after the branch merge
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12:11:35  <Maedhros> only if that savegame was made in trunk
12:11:47  <Maedhros> savegames from branches aren't guaranteed to be compatible with anything
12:13:43  <Wolf01> is made in trunk!
12:15:35  <Maedhros> oh right, you mean you can't load trunk savegames in -newhouses? which revision was the trunk savegame made with?
12:15:42  <Maedhros> sorry, i completely misunderstood you there :)
12:16:49  <Wolf01> no, i can't load MAX_SAVEGAME_VERSION = 44 savegames in trunk
12:17:01  <peter1138> ...
12:17:34  <peter1138> what is this "MAX_SAVEGAME_VERSION" of which you speak?
12:17:36  <Wolf01> i say, something is changed but the savegame version is not increased
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12:18:04  <Wolf01> extern const uint16 SAVEGAME_VERSION = 44; <-
12:18:49  <peter1138> so are you saying you can't load trunk games in trunk?
12:18:54  <Wolf01> yes
12:19:03  <peter1138> so where did new houses come into it?
12:19:04  <Maedhros> Tron: apparently the casts are necessary, because otherwise the operating profit graph becomes useless (although within the boundaries of the graph this time...)
12:19:44  <Wolf01> i read somewhere in the forum, maybe i misunderstood, but if isn't newhouses is something else
12:19:48  <Tron> uh, at least the last cast casts an int32 to an int64 just before assigning to int64
12:20:32  <peter1138> Wolf01: the question is, if you're loading trunk games into trunk, where does newhouses, or any other branch, come into it?
12:20:43  <Tron> also (int64)p->old_economy[j].company_value casts an int64 to an int64
12:21:17  <Wolf01> ok, is not newhouses, maybe is cpp branch, or something else
12:22:37  <peter1138> Wolf01: if any branch is involved, you're not loading trunk games into trunk..
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12:22:53  <Wolf01> i can't understand you
12:23:31  <Wolf01> the game was made with 79xx, now is 82xx, i can't load it since 810x
12:25:14  <Wolf01> i only misunderstood a post in the forums where was wrote about a savegame error and newhouses
12:27:02  <Maedhros> ok, this works:
12:27:31  <Maedhros> i don't entirely understand why the remaining cast is required, though
12:31:05  <Tron> the problem is INVALID_VALUE
12:31:57  <Tron> it is 0x80000000, which usually is an unsigned int (because it does not fit into an int)
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12:40:15  <Maedhros> hmm. what would be a better value for INVALID_VALUE then?
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12:42:12  <Tron> something beginning with a (int64) probably
12:44:31  <Maedhros> bah, in which case old_x and old_y need to become int64s as well
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12:52:30  <Maedhros> how about this, then?
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13:01:05  <Darkvater> 'ello
13:01:58  <Maedhros> hi Darkvater
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13:03:15  <Darkvater> Bjarni: we don't need an essay on what you need and don't need; just do it :) (r8288)
13:03:35  <Bjarni> heh
13:04:06  <Bjarni> right now I solved the bug with the crash in the list of vehicles with shared orders... and introduced a new crash in it
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13:06:55  <Darkvater> Bjarni: did you read my temporary solution/fix in the bugtracker?
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13:29:34  <Bjarni> Darkvater: yeah, but now I got the real solution. Now it works, but it needs cleaning up and a bit more testing
13:30:14  <Darkvater> interesting, will be curious to see it :)
13:30:25  <Bjarni> it now uses the index of the first vehicle in the chain to give the window a unique number
13:30:46  <Bjarni> but it means changing the window number when the first vehicle is removed from it (like it's sold or something)
13:30:51  <Darkvater> and if you delete the first vehicle?
13:30:52  <Darkvater> ugh
13:30:59  <Darkvater> I wouldn't do that
13:31:08  <Bjarni> why not?
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13:31:35  <Darkvater> way too much magic needed anywhere, hooks in totally unrelated code; general messiness
13:31:36  <Bjarni> the issue is that we need some way of ensuring that we got a unique ID
13:32:25  <Bjarni> I'm considering moving the whole vehicle list stuff to a file of it's own
13:32:35  <Bjarni> to make it less messy
13:33:00  <Darkvater> you mean vehicle_gui.c which is basically already a file of its own for vehicle list stuff?
13:33:09  <Bjarni> also I made a function to change the window number. It's not added inside anything else
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13:33:48  <Tron> ?
13:33:54  <Bjarni> well, I will clean this up and then you can take a look at the diff if you like
13:34:04  <Bjarni> I don't think it's as bad as it sounds
13:34:18  <Darkvater> it sounds pretty bad
13:34:29  * Darkvater would rather wish Bjarni'd fix the OSX problems :)
13:34:43  <Purno> Darkvater , do you know if OpenTTD support Action D Variables 8F and 9E?
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13:35:19  <Darkvater> Purno: lol
13:35:26  <Darkvater> I can have a look, but peter1138 is the expert here
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13:35:32  * Purno pokes peter1138
13:37:28  <Darkvater> Purno: action d is setting parameters?
13:37:45  <Purno> Action D variable 8F is used to set the cost factor of track types
13:37:57  <Purno> Varbiabe 9E is used to set the depot view to 32 pix
13:38:06  <Purno> (for horizontal views for trains)
13:38:08  <Purno> AFAICT
13:38:16  * Darkvater looks at wiki
13:38:32  <Maedhros> looks like 8F: no, 9E: yes, to me
13:39:48  <Darkvater> 		case 0x8E: // Y-Offset for train sprites
13:39:57  <Darkvater> oh wait that's 8e ;p
13:40:07  <Darkvater> yeah 8E no, 9e yes
13:42:46  <Purno> eh... I didn't ask about 8E...
13:42:50  <Purno> :>
13:42:53  <Purno> 8F?
13:43:27  <Darkvater> yeh, 8f no 9e seems yes
13:43:37  <Purno> and what happens if OpenTTD encounters an action/variable in a GRF it does not support?
13:43:56  <Purno> e.g., if I want to use 8F, do I need to have a seperate, non-8F, GRF file for openttd?
13:44:11  <Darkvater> it gives a warning and ignores it
13:44:14  <Purno> ok
13:44:21  <Darkvater> Bjarni:
13:44:37  <Darkvater> Bjarni: can you check? Guy claims the OSX binary doesn't have Freetype support
13:44:49  <Darkvater> or it's not working
13:44:54  <Purno> and how much effort would you think it would be to support 8F?
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13:46:02  <Darkvater> minor
13:46:17  <Darkvater> although ttdpatch 8F sucks
13:46:37  <Darkvater> cause it only has 3 rail-types so you can't set normal, el, mono and maglev seperately
13:47:38  <Darkvater> Purno: how does 8F work?
13:47:43  <Darkvater> The defaults are the following:
13:47:43  <Darkvater> Values	Track types	Electrified railways setting
13:47:43  <Darkvater> 08, 10, 18	Regular, Monorail, Maglev	off
13:47:43  <Darkvater> 08, 0D, 10	Regular, Electric, Monorail/Maglev	on
13:47:50  <Darkvater> this table is confusing
13:48:22  <Purno> I dunno how 8F works internally
13:48:28  <Purno> I'm not a patch dev, just a grf dev
13:49:03  <Darkvater> no I mean, set regular to 2* the cost
13:49:06  <Darkvater> what's the grf-code
13:49:22  <Purno> sorry, you lost me here. Whatcha mean?
13:49:54  <Darkvater> give me a line of grf code that sets the cost of normal rail to 215
13:50:06  <Purno> eh... I dunno
13:50:09  <Darkvater> he
13:50:12  <Purno> I'm not a nfo hacker
13:50:17  <Purno> I'm just a simple artist
13:50:22  <Purno> :P
13:50:27  <Darkvater> ok
13:50:32  <Purno> I thought you knew :P
13:50:52  <Darkvater> grfnfo is still magic to me
13:50:56  <Darkvater>  /
13:51:12  <Purno> would it be useful to post a topic at tt-forums suggesting support  for Action D Var 8F?
13:51:22  <Darkvater> probably not
13:51:25  <Purno> ok
13:51:30  <Purno> there goes my free post :P
13:51:32  <Darkvater> the people familiar with nfo already know of it
13:51:39  <Darkvater> eg Maedhros and peter1138 :)
13:51:49  <Purno> does that mean it's on the todolist?
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13:52:17  <Darkvater> no
13:52:28  <RaduGC> hello everyone
13:52:32  <Darkvater> but you just told'em your wish so it might get on the todo list
13:52:41  <RaduGC> can some one guide me on how to install trams in OpenTTD?
13:52:51  <Maedhros> it's now on my "i wonder if i can make it work" list ;)
13:53:07  <Darkvater> RaduGC: you can't
13:53:22  <Darkvater> RaduGC: not supported, they only work in TTDPatch (
13:53:44  <Tron> KUDr: gets GetTileRailType() only called on tiles containing tracks in YAPF?
13:55:12  <RaduGC> yeah, i used to play them in TTDPatch but something made me think they are now available in OpenTTD too
13:55:22  <RaduGC> guess i was wrong.. for now
13:55:54  <Darkvater> no; not yet
13:57:23  <Purno> <<Darkvater>> but you just told'em your wish so it might get on the todo list <-- I did?
13:57:42  <Darkvater> didn't you? :)
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13:59:28  <Purno> depends on who 'them' is
13:59:42  <Darkvater> #openttd
13:59:52  <Purno> hmm... okies
13:59:57  <Purno> then I did indeed
14:00:17  <Purno> how's things for that scenario contest?
14:00:26  <Purno> have the devs made a decision yet?
14:00:36  <Darkvater> no, not yet
14:00:39  <Purno> ok
14:00:56  <Purno> too bad we hurried a bit too much...
14:01:14  <Purno> who knows what kind of scenarios we'd gotten if we'd gave them another week
14:01:57  <Darkvater> yeah. I was a bit too late as well with the request, and didn't think RC4 was needed this badly ;p
14:03:34  <Darkvater> < what an idiot
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14:07:59  <caladan> hmm, it seems he is like 15 years old :] thou he acts as if he had 6yrs :/
14:08:24  <Darkvater>
14:08:25  <Darkvater> hehe
14:08:34  <Darkvater> this one's getting annoyed by chat messages :)
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14:10:17  <KUDr> [14:55:46] <Tron> KUDr: gets GetTileRailType() only called on tiles containing tracks in YAPF? << probably not. Why?
14:10:39  <Darkvater> << out shopping
14:11:31  <KUDr> Tron: yes, it is:
14:11:31  <KUDr> 		if (!QueryNewTileTrackStatus()) return TryReverse();
14:11:31  <KUDr> 		if (!CanEnterNewTile()) return false;
14:11:47  <Wolf01> i found a bug, instead of resolve it, extend it to all: is possible to raise the land below the extended foundations (those with the double foundations)
14:12:17  <KUDr> it tries to enter tile only if track status was non-zero
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15:23:53  <Sacro> hmm, im trying random flags into openttd.exe, you get some wierd undocumented stuff going on
15:23:55  <BurningFeetMan> dRUINK
15:24:13  <Sacro> usually just a blank dialog with CMDOKCANCEL
15:24:47  <BurningFeetMan> AND I WOUld walk 1000500 mile s and I AOWUld walk 500 more hust to see the man who wlkaed a 1000 miels to show up at yourdoo!
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15:33:57  <Darkvater> << should I write them that they have to include the COPYING file?
15:35:29  <Darkvater> and they've made a *HUGE* mess of the source. Some weird mix of revisions
15:37:38  <Sacro> Darkvater: isnt COPYING the file with the GPL in it?
15:37:51  <Darkvater> yes
15:38:51  * Darkvater is trying to find out what revision this was based on
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15:41:54  <peter1138> has it even been updated?
15:41:59  <peter1138> it was on 24something, iirc.
15:42:09  <Darkvater> no, they have a new release out
15:42:11  <peter1138> heh
15:42:14  <peter1138> version 2.0.0 beta 1
15:42:31  <Sacro> im pretty sure he is releasing a GP2X version without source
15:42:39  <Darkvater> but it's a fucking mess
15:42:52  <Darkvater> some changes are from 7630 (eg old_economy fix)
15:42:58  <Darkvater> others are from before r7575
15:43:03  <Darkvater> or even from before r7564
15:43:13  <peter1138> hmm
15:43:38  <Darkvater> it doesn't make any sense :s
15:44:08  <Darkvater> Sacro: where's the GP2X version?
15:44:17  <Sacro>
15:44:34  <Sacro> i also have OpenTTD for the XBOX
15:44:42  <Sacro> but i think thats more a leak than a release
15:44:56  <Darkvater> ah
15:45:03  <Sacro> he needs to release the openttd source under the gpl
15:45:07  <Sacro> but cannot release the XNA source
15:45:17  <Sacro> TTD2X - A modified port of OpenTTD to the GP2X
15:45:19  <Sacro> OpenTTD Revision: R3353
15:45:19  <Sacro> TTD2X Version: 0.50
15:46:00  <Sacro> yep, gp2x version comes with no mention of, or the GPL
15:48:06  <Darkvater> Sacro: the source is at
15:48:51  <Sacro> Darkvater: but he doesnt mention the gpl in the binary release
15:49:01  <Darkvater> yes
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15:50:40  <Sacro> and thats an offence
15:52:43  <peter1138> the strangest thing
15:52:54  <peter1138> is why do they not just work with us?
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15:53:07  <peter1138> oh, the donations...
15:53:13  <Sacro> mmhmm
15:53:21  <Sacro> why dont we just steal their code
15:53:35  <peter1138> because there's nothing useful :P
15:53:45  <Darkvater> they've fixed a typo :)
15:54:01  <Darkvater> GetProcAddress(lib, MB_TO_WIDE(name);
15:54:06  <Darkvater> added a ); there :)
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15:59:45  <Darkvater> those guys obviously are not familiar with svn export o_O
16:00:12  <Sacro> hehe
16:00:23  <Sacro> dont tell me they manually patch each version?
16:00:47  <Darkvater> the guy just probably took his working copy, deleted .svn in the main directory and zipped it
16:02:34  <Sacro> quite possible
16:03:25  <Sacro> "OpenTTD takes the open sourced Chris Sawyer game Transport Tycoon Deluxe"
16:03:28  <Sacro> no it doesnt
16:03:35  <Sacro> TTD was never open sourced
16:03:42  <Purno> :o
16:03:53  <Sacro> yes we improve upon it
16:04:02  <Purno> and the improvements are open sourced
16:05:18  <Darkvater> ?
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16:08:32  <Kosma> a little question, where can I post my modifications to openttd?
16:08:42  <Sacro> hmm, i think he has openttd on an nd
16:08:44  <Sacro> *nds
16:08:55  <glx> Kosma:
16:09:00  <Kosma> glx: thx
16:16:48  <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: yeah, that hostname is my baby :)
16:17:28  <Darkvater> ah
16:17:33  <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: but pretty outdated.. that could be considered as WT-0 :)
16:18:09  <Darkvater> gettin' some food
16:19:53  <caladan> Kosma: want to post that patch with industries in minimap?
16:19:54  <Darkvater> WTF?
16:20:43  <Kosma> caladan: yes
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16:20:59  <Kosma> I'll just check if it applies clearly against trunk
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16:22:19  <Kosma> no it doesn't...
16:22:21  <Kosma> fails badly
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16:22:44  * Kosma is confused
16:23:26  <Maedhros> foiled by the recent switch to C++ ?
16:23:28  <Kosma> yes
16:23:30  <Kosma> exactly
16:23:39  <Kosma> and I just wanted to say: WTF? ;)
16:23:58  <Sacro> is trunk in C++ now?
16:24:00  <Kosma> yes
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16:24:13  <Kosma> patching file smallmap_gui.cpp
16:24:17  <Kosma> yeah it works now
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16:31:32  <Xxaxx> hello
16:31:44  <Xxaxx> I have one simple question:)
16:31:53  <Xxaxx> what about free sounds ?
16:32:05  <Xxaxx> they are exists?
16:32:25  <Xxaxx> I mean free analog of
16:32:27  <Maedhros> not as far as i know
16:32:47  <glx> but we'd like have them
16:33:02  <Xxaxx> hm, as I can understand, project got free gfx(almost full pkg) but don't have sounds?
16:33:25  <Xxaxx> I mean for full free game, with out this sh*t from chris
16:33:26  <Bjarni> in theory it's not a huge task to remove the need for it... it would just mute all sounds and since you would still need the grf files, it makes little sense
16:33:27  <glx> we don't have free gfx yet
16:33:28  <izhirahider> Xxaxx, its not easy to replace such good quality sound
16:33:37  <Xxaxx> it is easy
16:33:47  <Bjarni> it is?
16:33:51  <Xxaxx> I will proov it
16:33:55  <Bjarni> yeah
16:33:56  <Bjarni> do that
16:33:59  <Xxaxx> ,)
16:34:03  <Xxaxx> okie dokie
16:34:03  <Bjarni> and donate the result to us :)
16:34:05  <Wolf01> tomorrow
16:34:17  <Bjarni> why not today?
16:34:21  <Xxaxx> month will be enought
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16:34:44  <Xxaxx> thanks, see ya
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16:34:50  <Bjarni> well, if you can supply us with sounds that we can distribute, a month wait is ok
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16:35:08  <Wolf01> a month should be enough also to learn english
16:35:16  <Bjarni> but if you catch you stealing them from TTD or some other copyrighted place, then....
16:35:32  <Wolf01> he is gone, stop talk to yourself!
16:35:42  <Bjarni> oh right
16:36:00  <Bjarni> do anybody think that he will be back in a month?
16:37:13  <caladan> nope
16:37:34  <Wolf01> me too
16:38:35  <Bjarni> somehow his statement reminds me of guyver_. He said something like that about OpenGL and then he coded it to work with windows only (not portable), with an upside down display and like 2 fps
16:38:40  <Wolf01> at least not to made some different playlists (new style, izy street or how is called, blues and so on)
16:38:58  <Bjarni> he fixed the upside down issue because I helped him, but nothing of the rest and we never saw him again
16:39:12  <Kosma> at least he coded something
16:39:24  <Bjarni> yeah
16:39:26  <Bjarni> he tried
16:39:39  <Bjarni> but for some reason we never got a diff
16:39:48  <Kosma> you mean, only binary?
16:39:54  <Bjarni> no
16:40:03  <Bjarni> for all I know, it never ran and he lied to us
16:40:33  <Bjarni> the upside down image is on opengl's homepage as one of the "top 10 newbie issues"
16:41:37  <Bjarni> even though the speed lacked, he claimed that he got it to display the right image with the right colours
16:41:45  <Bjarni> which is a pretty good start
16:42:05  <Kosma> I wonder how he actually did it
16:42:06  <caladan> hmm, i guess graphics is the worstw thing that can be done to openttd...
16:42:21  <caladan> i mean changing them...
16:42:23  <Kosma> but I still have no idea what would be the OpenGL's advantage over SDL
16:42:31  <Bjarni> I once tried to optimise the cocoa video driver and yes, it was faster, but.... I got an all white screen :P
16:43:00  <caladan> Kosma: you as a X4X0R should do something for the game :D
16:43:15  <Bjarni> OpenGL can be way faster, run in a different thread (dualcore CPUs) and put some of the load on the GPU instead
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16:43:17  <Bjarni> but
16:43:18  <caladan> *H4X0R
16:43:24  <Kosma> caladan: I'm trying to make svn diff work right now
16:43:35  <Bjarni> you need to know what you are doing or it will fail horribly
16:43:56  <caladan> Most people dont know how computers work anyway ;]
16:43:57  <Bjarni> not to mention that unless the code is written with OpenGL in mind, it's extremely tricky
16:44:15  <Kosma> like all the display lists and the like?
16:44:17  <caladan> so why do you expect they know something about threads and so on:D
16:44:34  <Bjarni> you guys found the way into this channel
16:44:45  <Bjarni> that's a valid reason to know such stuff
16:45:01  <Bjarni> if not, then you might have come to the wrong place
16:45:21  <Bjarni> and since I got the power to kick people, everybody will say "I know about threads" in a moment :P
16:45:51  <Kosma> I know about threads but I never coded them.
16:46:10  <ln-> there was a really working OpenGL version of OpenTTD, by phaser.
16:46:26  <Bjarni> I didn't say that you should have coded it, just know what it is
16:46:41  <Bjarni> err
16:46:47  <Bjarni> who is phaser? :)
16:46:57  <Bjarni> hmm
16:47:02  <Bjarni> I have seen that nick before
16:47:33  <ln-> a colleague of mine. he visited the channel years ago.
16:49:02  <Bjarni> do anybody feel like testing a diff file?
16:49:57  <Bjarni> <-- this should fix all known crashing issues with the list of vehicles with shared orders. Now the question is if it broke something else in that window
16:50:03  <Bjarni> or somewhere else
16:51:06  <peter1138> does
16:51:16  <ln-> Bjarni: btw, blackis suspected that apple's opengl implementation is so well optimized that drawing with opengl would be a little faster than cocoa could possibly be.
16:54:08  <Bjarni> I tend to think that as well
16:54:16  <Bjarni> OpenGL works great in OSX
16:54:27  <peter1138> go on, write our opengl blitter
16:54:36  <Bjarni> :P
16:56:03  <ln-> actually i have phaser's opengl blitter somewhere, i think..
16:56:28  <ln-> but certainly it's not in compilable state.
16:58:54  <ln-> oh yes, found it
16:58:57  <Bjarni> :)
16:59:04  <Bjarni> a test is a test
16:59:13  <Bjarni> worst case: it slows down the game
16:59:20  <Bjarni> or displays something incorrectly
16:59:22  <Bjarni> or both
16:59:36  <Bjarni> best case: it displays the same as the cocoa driver, but faster
16:59:57  <Bjarni> and without using decapitated functions
17:00:07  <Bjarni> even the same speed, but without decapitated functions would be good
17:00:23  <peter1138> decapitated? hehe
17:00:45  <Sacro> decapitating?
17:02:43  <ln-> it's all in an ancient version of sdl.c.  i'm unable to produce a diff, but here's the file:
17:03:20  *** tosse [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:03:39  <Maedhros> heh, opening that file just caused Galeon to crash, for some reason...
17:03:46  <ln-> note that we don't have explicit permission by phaser for redistributing the changes.
17:03:54  <glx> Bjarni: the word is "deprecated" ;)
17:04:01  <Sacro> glx: i like his word
17:04:04  <Bjarni> right
17:04:08  <Sacro> tis less... subtle
17:04:23  <Sacro> and has better imagery associated
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17:06:16  <Kosma> anyway
17:06:18  <Kosma>
17:06:23  <Kosma> what do you think about this?
17:06:50  <Bjarni> nice
17:07:00  <caladan> Kosma: good, should be included in branch :-)
17:07:05  <Kosma> you mean in trunk? ;)
17:07:08  <Bjarni> in what branch?
17:07:23  <caladan> in trunk i meant ;D
17:07:29  <caladan> like main branch ;-)
17:07:36  <Kosma> it helps a lot with finding a good route
17:07:43  <caladan> usefull
17:08:44  <caladan> ok, g2g, gonna find route to £omianki :D
17:08:51  <Kosma> cu ;)
17:09:33  <Kosma> I'm only a bit confused where to submit this patch; should it go to, or forums (development or suggestions?)
17:09:56  <glx> as I said put it on :)
17:10:11  <Kosma> register as a new user...
17:10:11  <Kosma> argh
17:10:13  <Kosma> hate that
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17:12:27  <Maedhros> can anyone see any problems with this?
17:12:48  <Maedhros> graph_gui.cpp is so magic, and lacking in comments that it's hard to find if there's anything else that should be changed :-.
17:12:59  <Maedhros> s:.:/:
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17:22:39  * Kosma is bored
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17:38:46  <peter1138> $ gaim
17:38:46  <peter1138> Segmentation fault
17:38:47  <peter1138> o_O
17:40:13  * Wolf01 wants to do something, but doesn't know what :(
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17:41:50  * Maedhros stabs whoever it was who thought unk61A and unk61C were good names for variables
17:42:34  <glx> I think ludde did
17:43:24  <Maedhros> hmm, well i can probably find it in my heart to forgive him ;)
17:43:39  <Maedhros> but it's really not helping me make sense of this file ;)
17:45:05  <Kosma> peter1138: gaim 2 beta?
17:45:47  <peter1138> was the galago plugin
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17:56:15  <Darkvater> Bjarni: I do'nt like the concept of that diff, as said before way too much hooks intotally un-gui related code
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18:04:51  <Bjarni> no
18:04:57  <Darkvater> yes
18:04:58  <Bjarni> please read it right
18:05:04  <Darkvater> I am, and that's what I see
18:05:27  <Bjarni> the only GUI stuff is actually UpdateVehListWithSharedOrdersWindowNumber()
18:05:45  <Bjarni> the rest is setting up prev_shared and next_shared
18:06:32  <Bjarni> since part of the issue is that if the order list is empty, this fails
18:06:42  <Bjarni> so it actually corrects a bug there as well
18:07:42  <Bjarni> it appears that if you make shared orders without actually giving orders and sell one of the vehicles, that vehicle is not removed from the linked list of vehicles sharing those orders
18:09:21  <MiHaMiX> hmm
18:09:28  <MiHaMiX> it's very unlikely to occur :)
18:09:30  <Bjarni> most of this diff is about handling clearing those pointers and how to set up the list for the window as it now uses a VehicleID instead of an OrderID to generate a unique ID
18:10:06  <Bjarni> MiHaMiX: yes, but it happened while I tested my diff, and then the game crashed, so I had to take care of it
18:10:43  <Darkvater> in either case, please don't commit it yet
18:11:00  <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: ? :)
18:11:14  <Bjarni> if you like, I can solve the failure to reset the pointers in one commit first
18:11:27  <Bjarni> I can even make a diff of that fix alone
18:11:46  <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: shall I commit translations now which were submitted to me in email?
18:12:40  <Bjarni> whatever we do, we should remove the possibility of deleting a vehicle (setting type to 0) without removing it from the linked list of vehicles, that shares orders
18:12:44  <Bjarni> right?
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18:13:05  <Darkvater> MiHaMiX: what langs were those?
18:13:21  <Darkvater> Bjarni: I don't yet see what you are exactly saying but I think that's a yes
18:13:27  <Darkvater> I'll bb in 2 orso hours
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18:14:06  <Bjarni> I just triggered that bug (in RC4). I now got only one vehicle in the game and it got a shared orders list
18:14:43  <Bjarni> meaning that if I do something to every vehicle that shares that orders list, I will access the vehicle I just sold
18:14:50  <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: simpl. chinese and japanese
18:15:05  <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: simplified chinese has a finished translation at me ;)
18:15:13  <Bjarni> Japanese... I better prove that Japanese guy wrong and tell him how to set up the font
18:15:27  <Wolf01> [19:13:42] <Darkvater> I'll bb in 2 orso hours <- lool i made a mix italian+english: orso = bear, so i read i'll bb in 2 bear hours
18:16:03  <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: he told me that now he can use unicode on osx
18:16:24  * Maedhros should stop looking at graph_gui.cpp; i keep finding things that don't quite work properly
18:16:36  <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: "Now that font support is working on the Mac OS X build, ..."
18:16:37  <Maedhros> like the bonus pink cargo without a name in the cargo payment rates graph
18:16:57  <Bjarni> actually... where did we put the documentation on how to set up fonts?
18:17:01  <Bjarni> I can't find it
18:17:08  <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: wiki..../Unicode
18:17:30  <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: i sent this link to everyone
18:17:51  <Kosma> Maedhros: what's this unnamed cargo anyway?
18:18:00  <Maedhros> Kosma: i have no idea, yet :)
18:18:18  <Kosma> maybe electricity
18:18:23  <Kosma> carried in buckets ;]
18:18:59  <glx> !openttd Bjarni unicode
18:19:01  <_42_> Bjarni: Please see this page regarding unicode problems:
18:19:03  <MiHaMiX> btw
18:19:08  <hylje> bucketloads of electricity
18:19:15  <MiHaMiX> glx: thanks
18:19:28  <hylje> when newcargo is implemented i'm SO doing an silly cargo set
18:19:50  <Kosma> yes
18:20:01  <Kosma> like transporting cattle to cities
18:20:29  <hylje> it'll have all kinds of cargo made in random industries being accepted at random places
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18:20:44  <hylje> randomized for every new game if possible :>
18:21:07  <MiHaMiX> lol
18:21:17  <Kosma> or, better, all cargo named the same way so you can't tell them apart
18:21:38  <Kosma> and so you have to try transporting everything everywhere until you learn which is which ;]
18:21:44  <hylje> nah
18:21:48  <hylje> that would be lame, not silly
18:22:31  <Kosma> if you can build logical gates and circuits with ottd, so why not this? ;-)
18:22:34  <hylje> the silly cargo would have you transport mail to power plants, livestock between towns for instance
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18:22:45  <Sacro> whoo, my NOR gate :D
18:22:58  <Sacro> though i cant quite figure out how to invert
18:23:21  <Kosma> there was a patch that did this...
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18:42:34  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r8289 /trunk/src/lang/ (japanese.txt unfinished/simplified_chinese.txt): [Translations] -Fix: translators sent some offline translation for simplified chinese (Fishingsnow) and japanese (ickoonite)
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18:45:25  <MiHaMiX> new translation record: 95% - 5100 bad strings out of 104969 strings (2837 strings / language)
18:48:13  <blathijs> nice
18:48:46  <glx> MiHaMiX: simplified_chinese is no longer unfinished (94%)
18:50:54  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r8290 /trunk/src/lang/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
18:50:54  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-01-20 19:46:14
18:50:54  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 69 changed by fukumori (69)
18:50:54  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frisian - 48 fixed by ikkejw (48)
18:50:54  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: russian - 57 changed by DarkFenX (57)
18:50:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: ukrainian - 5 changed by znikoz (5)
18:51:07  <MiHaMiX> glx: it is still :-(
18:51:18  <MiHaMiX> glx: if it'll miss at most 100 strings, I'll move it
18:51:23  <MiHaMiX> glx: but not until
18:52:14  <glx> MiHaMiX: icelandic miss more string than chinese and it's not in unfinished
18:52:14  <Brianetta> hmm
18:52:14  <Brianetta> I have to do some washing up
18:53:39  <MiHaMiX> glx: that's why i'll move icelangic and galician to infinished
18:54:07  <glx> move korean too then
18:54:09  <MiHaMiX> glx: since I think, all icelandic translators are frozen (maybe because of the winter? :D)
18:54:28  <hylje> :o
18:54:53  <peter1138> flibbleflobble
18:55:02  <MiHaMiX> glx: i give a little time to the new korean translator to fix the missing strings
18:55:05  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: ? :)
18:55:22  <peter1138> heh
18:55:29  <peter1138> the korean translation is complete for 0.5.0-RC4
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18:56:45  <Kosma> how do I check how many strings are missing? ;)
18:56:59  <Kosma> I could work on the Polish translation out of boredom if needed
18:59:06  <Brianetta> peter1138: This not being able to build docks on canal you don't own is really annoying
18:59:11  <glx> Kosma:
18:59:11  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: are you sure?
19:00:10  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: is there 155 new strings in trunk from 0.5.0-rc4?
19:06:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> top
19:06:41  <Kosma> !top
19:06:47  <Kosma> aww, wrong chan
19:06:57  * Kosma bangs his head repeatedly against the desk
19:07:32  <hylje> :o
19:10:37  * peter1138 ponders
19:10:39  <peter1138> 512 tiles
19:10:44  <peter1138> 1 oil refinery
19:10:51  <peter1138> and an oil rig the other side of the amp
19:10:52  <peter1138> +map
19:11:07  <Tuzlo> and your point is?
19:11:07  <peter1138> ship or rail?
19:11:12  <Tuzlo> Rail
19:11:22  <Tuzlo> profit is based upon time
19:11:32  <Tuzlo> ships are sloa
19:11:34  <Tuzlo> slow
19:11:38  <hylje> slow ships are sloooooow
19:11:45  <peter1138> they're also cheap
19:12:28  <peter1138> i'll give the rail a go :p
19:12:39  <Tuzlo> rail will make lotsa priofit
19:14:08  <Tuzlo> howd you measure teh distance?
19:14:15  <hylje> use measurements tooltip
19:14:22  <hylje> patch options
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19:16:02  <Tuzlo> what version?
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19:18:05  <Tuzlo> nm, I found it
19:25:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> <Kosma> how do I check how many strings are missing? ;) <- strgen -w
19:27:43  <izhirahider> is there any way possible for the same station to have non-adjacent branches (like road vehicles here and trucks in a non-adjacent square) ?
19:28:06  <hylje> yes
19:28:14  <hylje> 1. build a station
19:28:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> just remove the middle tiles
19:28:28  <hylje> 2. use station tiles to connect the two parts
19:28:30  <hylje> 3. ???
19:28:32  <hylje> 4. profit
19:28:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> also, there is a patch that allows to place distant station tiles directly
19:28:47  <hylje> the ??? has been said by Eddi|zuHause2.
19:29:19  <Wolf01> play with miniIN where there is a patch which allow you to join stations at distance
19:29:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> i never figured out, how this patch is invoked, though ;)
19:29:58  <Wolf01> ctrl key when placing a station
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19:30:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> it had something to do with weird combination of ctrl and alt keys
19:31:31  <Wolf01> if there a mouse with 8 buttons so you can do what you want without ctrl/alt/shift
19:31:41  <Wolf01> *there is
19:32:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> last time i tired, ctrl let me place a separate station, but not a joined statio
19:32:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> n
19:32:35  <Wolf01> ok, then the patch was not updated, try with alt
19:32:37  <peter1138> 7200hp
19:32:45  <peter1138> pulling 3690 tonnes
19:32:59  <Wolf01> the latest version allow you to do all with ctrl only
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19:37:50  <izhirahider> thanks
19:41:59  <Frostregen> yup, because some OS's don't like alt
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19:55:47  <izhirahider> hylje,
19:56:07  <izhirahider> hylje, I'm not being able to create a new station to replace the fountain with the same name
19:56:28  <izhirahider> and I can't erase the road
19:56:58  <hylje> izhirahider: turn on "allow demolishing of more town-owned roads, bridges etc"
19:57:06  <Wolf01> you can't, is different from you aren't able
19:57:14  <hylje> izhirahider: otherwise town-built road loops are undestructable
19:57:55  <Wolf01> maybe the local authority don't allow he to demolish it too
19:58:42  <Wolf01> the adjacent stations patch is so usefull in these cases
19:59:08  <DaleStan> <Darkvater> although ttdpatch 8F sucks <--- I think there's a pretty simple solution: "In OpenTTD, 8F is 4*B, with the four bytes being the cost factors for normal, electrified, monorail, and maglev. If the fourth byte is 0, its value will be copied from the third byte."
19:59:16  <izhirahider> Thanks, I see.
20:00:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> Wolf01: you lobby too few to get it included ;)
20:00:46  <DaleStan> Check with patchman first, of course. Also, it's not very future-proof, since newroutes will raise the number of rail-types to 8.
20:01:12  <peter1138> i imagine "newroutes" would have it as an action 0 property
20:04:00  <DaleStan> Probably. On the other hand, it's been quite a while since I've seen a newroutes-related commit.
20:06:47  <Wolf01> peter1138, what about adding the transparency gui plus other 2 little gui improvements to trunk?
20:07:58  <peter1138> i can't
20:09:01  <Wolf01> who can?
20:10:24  <peter1138> dunno
20:10:29  <peter1138> i can't cos i'm playing fgfs
20:13:36  <Brianetta> Heliports should perhaps not be included in airports-per-city limits.
20:13:54  <Wolf01> i totally agree with you
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20:14:35  <Wolf01> but heliports only, not helidepots or others
20:14:59  <Brianetta> BTW, it's 2017 on my server and there's a spare company slot
20:15:00  <Brianetta> which is rare
20:16:33  <Frostregen> hmm, too late to build anything profitable i guess
20:16:44  <Brianetta> It's worth a shot
20:16:58  <Brianetta> Get some cheap MUs running
20:16:59  <Frostregen> i tried in 1940 and 1980 ;)
20:17:15  <Frostregen> but always full :(
20:17:25  <Brianetta> yeah
20:17:29  <Brianetta> we just had a bankruptcy
20:17:48  <Frostregen> maybe next restart
20:17:56  <Frostregen> i have no time now :/
20:19:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> people already got tired of 0.5 ;)
20:24:59  <Wolf01> too many RCs and too much bugs still present i think
20:27:21  <gass> why?
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20:28:01  <Wolf01> because people wants stables to play on multiplayer, but if is unstable they use the nightlies
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20:28:37  <Wolf01> which are unstable too but they have more new features
20:29:07  <Wolf01> this is a my opinion and what i do
20:29:17  <Brianetta> If people want stable they must ise 0.4.8
20:29:30  <Brianetta> If they want cutting edge, use HEAD (or a nightly)
20:29:42  <Brianetta> If they want to *test*, they should use a release candidate.
20:30:28  <Brianetta> Only the last release candidate is stable enough to be released, almost by definition
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21:27:42  <Darkvater> < back
21:29:04  <Darkvater> MiHaMiX: yeah, sure go ahead and add it
21:29:52  <Darkvater> MiHaMiX: although I wonder about japanese changes if the corrections are actually correct. You should've run them by the official translation
21:34:33  <Darkvater> he, this PPC port is *nothing*
21:34:49  <Darkvater> a bunch of ifdefs here and there, and a partly rewritten sdl_v.c to support key-input
21:38:27  <Tron> hm?
21:38:46  <Darkvater>
21:38:49  <Darkvater>
21:39:02  <Darkvater> the esoftinteractive PPC release
21:40:36  <Tron> seems to be pre-UTF8 (see currency.c)
21:40:56  <Darkvater> no, it's based on RC3
21:41:09  <Darkvater> they reverted the currency change
21:41:26  <glx> and they don't use freetype
21:41:38  <Darkvater> yeah
21:41:54  <Tron> but these aren't valid UTF8 sequences
21:42:01  <Tron> ?!
21:42:13  <Darkvater> I wonder if I should install VS2005 mobile-compiler
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21:43:56  <Maedhros> heh, look who's back:
21:44:11  <Tron> a progress bar on startup. cute
21:44:20  <Darkvater> o_O
21:44:31  <Darkvater> Tron: with spookysoft advertisement
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21:46:07  <Darkvater>
21:47:27  <Darkvater> Maedhros: he, well at least he looks to be a capable nfo-coder. The plane tilts on takeoff
21:49:13  <Maedhros> nice
21:49:35  <Maedhros> i'm trying to download it now - 0.3 KB/s
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21:55:27  <Wolf01> ireallyneedaopenttdportfornintendods :D
21:55:47  <Maedhros> bah, after all that, and i can't open it anyway
21:56:05  <Darkvater> lol
21:57:02  <Bjarni> Wolf01: maybe you need support for a spacebar as well
21:59:10  <Wolf01> is hard to write with a single finger without looking at the keyboard when lying down on a sofa :D
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22:14:36  <_42_> Darkvater, michi_cc ( was last seen splitting from #openttd 2 minutes ago (20.01. 22:12), after spending 4 days 14 hours 57 minutes there.
22:15:05  <Wolf01> !seen Wolf01
22:15:05  <_42_> Wolf01, do I look like a mirror? ^_^
22:15:15  <Darkvater> michi_cc: ping
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22:21:07  <Darkvater> ack, I can't find my visual studio DVD
22:21:47  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:36:11  <Darkvater> ugh I left a dvd at a friend's house :(
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22:36:22  <Darkvater> fuckin'hell
22:36:28  <Darkvater> guess it means no more devving today
22:36:30  <Darkvater> gn all
22:36:40  <Eddi|zuHause> what does one have broadband for? :p
22:36:41  <Darkvater> michi_cc: ping
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22:40:19  <Brianetta> Darkvater: Do you need the DVD day-to-day?
22:40:41  <Darkvater> I would've needed it tomorrow :)
22:41:46  <Brianetta> "SafeDiscPro verification check: Please insert the CD labelled 'Visual Studio'"
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23:04:48  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r8292 /branches/masterserver_updater/src/ (7 files in 3 dirs):
23:04:48  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [MSU] -Change: add more (doxygen) documentation
23:04:48  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [MSU] -Codechange: remove some global variables, make naming of variables mode consistent
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23:28:05  <Eddi|zuHause> ohh... you gotta love these really extremely poorly synchronized shows on the new german "comedy central" channels :p
23:28:28  <Bjarni> no I don't :P
23:28:40  <Bjarni> you see, they are in German
23:28:43  <Bjarni> :P
23:29:45  <Eddi|zuHause> honestly, if you think star trek was bad, this is several magnitudes lower :p
23:30:27  <Bjarni> :D
23:32:12  <Bjarni> some Dane invented a way to modify mouth movements. This was originally intended to help people, who got problems hearing, but Hollywood wonders about using it when they are syncing their movies. That way they can make the mouth movements fit the sound on several languages
23:32:45  <Bjarni> could be interesting to see what turns out when it comes to this
23:33:31  <Bjarni> Imagine Clint Eastwood speaking Italian or German with the right mouth movements
23:33:49  <Bjarni> not to mention Indian, Russian, Chinese or Japanese
23:36:34  <Eddi|zuHause> it is said that phrases like "Oh mein Gott" actually came into the german language, because it was used to synchronize movies (instead of similar german phrases, that are not lip-synchronous to "oh my god")
23:43:45  <iamaway> Oh mein Gott :p
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23:44:40  <izhirahider> wow, openttd crashed on me
23:44:46  <izhirahider> Error: !invalid string id 0 in GetString
23:44:53  <Bjarni> OpenTTD went down on you?
23:44:59  <izhirahider> svn/openttd/src/openttd.cpp:96: void error(const char*, ...): Assertion `0' failed.
23:45:05  <izhirahider> core dumped
23:45:18  <Bjarni> see if you can reproduce it
23:46:07  <Eddi|zuHause> izhirahider: if windows and RC4, look for a crash.dmp file, and post that to
23:51:26  <izhirahider> no, Linux and revision 8291. I'm affraid the core dump in not very helpful since I didn't compiled with debug flags
23:52:45  <Bjarni> then do so
23:52:59  <Bjarni> and run the game in gdb so we know what goes wrong
23:53:13  <Bjarni> because clearly you noticed everything you did so you can reproduce it
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