Log for #openttd on 22nd January 2007:
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00:22:29  <Andrew_Conelli> Hello
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00:24:27  <Andrew_Conelli> hello
00:24:48  <Sacro> Hey
00:26:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r8335 /trunk/src/ (6 files):
00:26:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Feature: the build ship window is now also resizable horizontally and contains sorting options
00:26:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: the build ship window is merged into build_vehicle_gui.cpp
00:30:53  <Digitalfox> Bjarni: You are inspired today :)
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00:37:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, since when are they showing american football on german tv?
00:38:04  <Smoovious> its fair... they show soccer here now
00:38:11  <Smoovious> :)
00:38:18  <glx> Eddi|zuHause2: they do it here too :)
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00:42:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> but i can neither figure out who plays, and how the rules are
00:43:34  <Smoovious> google is your friend
00:44:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> what's the point of TV if i have to google anyway? :p
00:44:52  <Smoovious> TV doesn't teach you football... it broadcasts under the assumption that you already know the game
00:45:05  <Bjarni> <Digitalfox>	Bjarni: You are inspired today :) <-- that's also known as I finally got time to code OpenTTD again :)
00:45:26  <Smoovious> took me 4 seperate olympics before I figured out the rules for curling
00:45:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> this is not american tv, it is german tv :p
00:45:46  <glx> curling is boring
00:45:50  <Bjarni> they got rules?
00:46:05  <Bjarni> I mean for American Football
00:46:23  <Smoovious> it isn't boring... it is finesse-based... so... well, ok, I can see how it would be boring, for you
00:46:24  <Bjarni> whenever I have seen it, they run into each other and end up in a great pile
00:46:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> apparently they have rules
00:46:50  <Smoovious> yeah... the rules are where all those yellow flags and whistle blows come in
00:47:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> it looks like they have 4 tries to win 10 yards
00:47:14  <Smoovious> when you see an instant replay, that's a good sign that a rule was involved
00:47:16  <Bjarni> quote "Sports are like sex, it's just as fun to do as it's boring to watch other people do it"
00:47:29  <Bjarni> sometimes politicians say interesting stuff
00:47:47  <Bjarni> that statement didn't change who I vote for though
00:47:51  <Smoovious> yes... so long as they keep gaining 10 yards within 4 drives, they keep the ball
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00:48:33  <facenew> OT: a short movie mocking Kim Jong Il and his secret agent buying something from China:
00:48:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> and apparently the colts play against the patriots, whoever they are
00:48:49  <Smoovious> on the 4th down... they have the option of running another normal play, or trying to kick for less points
00:48:50  *** facenew was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [smapper]
00:48:55  <Bjarni> *spammer
00:49:30  <Smoovious> Eddi|zuHause2... they're from different cities
00:50:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, it's very unlikely they go through all the trouble of broadcasting worldwide for a simple local match :)
00:50:55  <glx> it's the playoff I think
00:51:05  <Smoovious> it isn't that much trouble anymore... not like it used to be
00:51:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have no clue what a playoff is either
00:51:24  * Smoovious nods.
00:51:25  <Bjarni> I was about to say something like that
00:51:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, you still have to pay for the satellite bandwidth
00:51:38  <Bjarni> but then I figured that I don't care either
00:52:14  <Smoovious> the playoff's determine which team represents their division in the super bowl
00:52:58  <Bjarni> ahh
00:53:02  <Bjarni> intro matches
00:53:12  <Smoovious> >nods<
00:53:35  <Smoovious> so you'll end up having the eastern conference winner, playing the western conference winner
00:55:47  <Smoovious> dang... yeah, about this time, people would be turning off the game... only in the 2nd quarter, and the patriots are already aheadof the colts 21-3
00:56:09  <glx> 3 touchdowns
00:56:15  * Smoovious nods.
00:56:23  <Smoovious> and the colts only got off a field goal
00:56:24  <glx> third after an interception
00:57:59  <Smoovious> I've never been big on watching football... but 4 years of high school band... which means being trapped in the marching band... ya end up learning the game pretty well
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01:00:36  <DJGummikuh> you know what I would LOVE to see in openttd?
01:01:19  <DJGummikuh> some sort of "registry-key"-based hash with which you could identify idiots beyond IP changes :)
01:01:40  <DJGummikuh> which would require some sort of cd-key first of course :))
01:02:53  <glx> DJGummikuh: you know it's open source so it's easy to work around these things :)
01:03:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> you don't need a cd-key system, you just need a online registration system, and then you have to restrict your server to registered users
01:03:25  <DJGummikuh> glx: well you don't have to put the key generator in client-side
01:03:39  <DJGummikuh> Eddi|zuHause2: yeah I'm not very good in explaining that stuff :) but of course you're right
01:03:59  <DJGummikuh> some way of "Trusted Users" database would be cool :)
01:09:08  <DJGummikuh> and in general more power for the server admins :) like manually protecting companies from deletion
01:09:28  <DJGummikuh> or persisten admin login instead of having to type rcon password for every command
01:09:45  <DJGummikuh> btw is there any way to chat more than one word as server using rcon?
01:10:05  <glx> use quotes
01:10:07  <DJGummikuh> because rcon password "say bla bla bla" is missing the second pair of " for say
01:10:24  <DJGummikuh> and rcon password "say "bla bla bla"" isn't working at all ^^
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01:11:54  <glx> and using \" ?
01:12:37  <DJGummikuh> hmm... haven't tried
01:13:20  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r8336 /trunk/src/ (build_vehicle_gui.cpp vehicle.h):
01:13:20  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: added function to translate vehicle types to 0,1,2... for use for index to arrays
01:13:20  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  Used this function to get rid of some switch-cases in build_vehicle_gui.cpp
01:13:20  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix (r8335): ship build window didn't remember assending/decending sort setting
01:13:23  <DJGummikuh> ah btw... denying more than 10 queries per minute would be cool... someone is querying my server about every second
01:18:09  <roboboy> will openttd take ttdpatch savegames?
01:18:37  <DaleStan> Not if you had morevehicles set to anything other than 1 or off.
01:19:09  <DaleStan> Among other things.
01:20:30  <DJGummikuh> what's morevehicles for anyways?
01:21:08  <Sacro> glx: yes its open source, but how many people that do this are intelligent enough to change the code and recompile?
01:21:25  <DaleStan> DJGummikuh: Increase the limit on vehicles from 850 (well, 690+160), in increments of 850.
01:21:44  <DJGummikuh> urgs... so its a multiplier?
01:21:52  <DaleStan> Yes.
01:22:02  <DJGummikuh> woah... that will become an awefull amount of vehicles if oyu set it to 10 :D
01:22:07  <DJGummikuh> oyu=you
01:22:48  <DaleStan> DOS TTDPatch, for reasons I don't understand, can't do mallocs after TTD starts, so you have to set such things beforehand.
01:23:42  <DaleStan> PBS, Signal restrictions, newhouses, newindustries, newcargos, one way roads, and trams will also likely cause problems. And electrified railways may.
01:24:55  <Ailure> newPlayers
01:25:12  <Ailure> when will it stop? :p
01:25:40  <DJGummikuh> Ailure?
01:26:06  <Ailure> jmmmh?
01:26:16  <Ailure> yeah I know that came out from nowhere
01:26:39  <roboboy> will it play up just if they are on or do they have to have been built
01:31:24  <Ailure> hmm
01:31:43  <Ailure> Is there still work on the newHouses branch?
01:31:46  <Ailure> I almost said newstations
01:34:21  <Sacro> newsounds!
01:35:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r8337 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp: -Cleanup: removed some more switch-cases in build_vehicle_gui.cpp and added arrays + VehTypeToIndex() instead
01:36:33  <Ailure> newDisasters!
01:36:42  <Belugas> newhouses is almost done, Ailure.
01:36:50  <Ailure> good
01:36:58  <Ailure> though i'm mostly looking forward to newIndustries
01:37:16  <Ailure> which is dependant on newHouses I think
01:37:16  <Belugas> there are a few code-wise things left to do, like the parametres 1 and 2, plus some documentation ot finish
01:37:26  <Ailure> heh yeah
01:37:29  <Ailure> last time I tried it
01:37:35  <Ailure> I got funny hybrid buildings :)
01:37:41  <Ailure> half a modern hospital
01:37:46  <Ailure> half a condemned old hospital
01:37:50  <Belugas> yes, there is a link between the two, as they share the same sprite loadiing scheme
01:37:50  <Ailure> in that newHouses set
01:37:56  <Ailure> yeah I figured as much
01:38:13  <Belugas> hybrid buildings?
01:38:15  <Ailure> but last time I honestly tried was a month ago
01:38:15  <Belugas> mmm...
01:38:21  <Ailure> graphical glitch I should said
01:38:26  <Belugas> ho... it has improved a bit
01:40:12  <Ailure> of course :)
01:40:28  <Ailure> I probably try to stick to the stable for a bit for now though
01:40:34  <Sacro> Ailure: we have a few half old half new hospitals around here
01:40:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> someone should do a newgrf-AI :p
01:40:38  <Ailure> but as soon there's a newIndustries branch or something then..
01:40:49  <Ailure> a custom AI system is possible
01:40:56  <Ailure> but I rather use a finished scripting system
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01:40:59  <Sacro> Hull Royal Infirmary is 70's at the front, 90's at the side and victorian at the back
01:41:03  <Ailure> or compiled C++ code
01:41:34  <Ailure> good thing with a scripting system
01:41:39  <Ailure> is that people could make a single purpose AI
01:41:42  <Ailure> if they wished
01:47:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> can it be, that in american footbal, 90% of the time, the players are just standing around?
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01:51:33  <Tefad> Eddi|zuHause2: sounds about right
01:51:43  <Tefad> i think a play might last a little more than a minute
01:51:46  <Tefad> maybe.
01:51:57  <Tefad> then the field has to be set up again
01:52:39  <Tefad> max of four plays between attempts at scoring (the ball is transferred to the other team else)
01:57:45  <Smoovious> 4 plays to attempt to get a first down... scoring is extra
01:58:18  <Smoovious> so long as you keep getting 10 yards within 4 downs, you keep the ball
01:59:53  <DJGummikuh> all your base ...
01:59:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm. apparently, if you have a touchdown, you can shoot a goal for 1 point, or make another move for 2 points
02:00:10  <DJGummikuh> american football is by far the most confusing sport I know :)
02:00:25  <DJGummikuh> everybody shouts, crashes into each other and generally only make a big mesh of players :)
02:00:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, it took me a while to figure out some rules of snooker, too ;)
02:01:05  <DJGummikuh> Eddi|zuHause2: yeah but in general, snooker has at least SOME order :)
02:01:15  <DJGummikuh> is there snooker on tv atm or why are you mentioning it?
02:01:22  <DJGummikuh> there is mission Impossible 2 running atm :)
02:01:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, there is american football on tv
02:01:46  <Ailure> [02:48] <Eddi|zuHause2> can it be, that in american footbal, 90% of the time, the players are just standing around?
02:01:53  <Ailure> or maybe their AI just broke agian
02:02:12  <DJGummikuh> Eddi|zuHause2: err... on ARD? wasn't that a computer-game?
02:02:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, that is a real game ;)
02:02:45  <DJGummikuh> lol looked like an EA games title :)
02:03:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's pretty much the american semi-finale
02:03:44  <DJGummikuh> I have a funny bug... openttd and my tvsoftware tvtime are not working too well together :)
02:05:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, i think i had a funny overlay issue with openttd too, but i did not experience this for a long time
02:05:42  <DJGummikuh> well tv turns into slideshow whith openttd on the screen :)
02:08:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> but i don't use tvtime, i use kaffeine
02:08:52  <DJGummikuh> kaffeine can do tv-streams?
02:09:12  <DJGummikuh> well I like tvtime because it can zoom without changing the screen resolution by scaling the image
02:09:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> DVB, yes
02:09:24  <DJGummikuh> all the other tvsoftwares I tried had problems with that
02:09:55  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r8338 /trunk/src/ (6 files):
02:09:55  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: merged road vehicle build window into the other ones
02:09:55  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  Note: now all build vehicle windows are merged into build_vehicle_gui.cpp
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02:10:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have not seen it doing analog tv, though
02:10:49  <DJGummikuh> kaffeine I haven't tried because I just sucessfully threw all kde dependencies from my system and dont want to start installing them all over again ^^
02:10:51  <Bjarni> DVB totally rules
02:11:02  <DJGummikuh> hehe
02:11:23  <Bjarni> I use it daily for watching/recording multiple channels at once
02:11:37  <Bjarni> I get a really nice multiplex with 3 good channels in it
02:11:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> you might try some piping magic, so it is possible it does analog tv, too, if you have an external tuner app
02:11:44  <DJGummikuh> hehe
02:11:57  <DJGummikuh> Eddi|zuHause2: like... lets say.. tvtime? ^^
02:13:05  <DJGummikuh> Eddi|zuHause2: apart from that , TEH ultimate tvapp is aatv :D
02:13:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, you can take an app that just does the tuning, and has no displaying capabilities, and then use the displaying of kaffeine, which usually does this via xine
02:13:32  <DJGummikuh> * media-tv/aatv  Available versions:  0.2 Installed:           0.2 Homepage:   Description:         watch TV on a text console rendered by aalib
02:13:38  <Bjarni> well, you guys go ahead and figure out if I broke anything regarding the build windows
02:13:45  <Bjarni> goodnight
02:13:47  <DJGummikuh> Bjarni: linux here :)
02:13:49  <DJGummikuh> goodnight
02:13:55  <Bjarni> :P
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02:14:16  <Bjarni> I meant the build vehicle windows in the game, but I think you knew that
02:14:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> i think he might have meant other kinds of windows :p
02:14:37  <DJGummikuh> Bjarni: oh lol no I didn't understand that :D
02:14:43  <DJGummikuh> its late again here ^^ past 3am
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02:18:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> are there any non-religious reasons against KDE?
02:18:29  <DJGummikuh> size
02:19:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> compared to what?
02:19:23  <DJGummikuh> and chaos in their framework...
02:19:53  <DJGummikuh> there was a time my updater tried to install 2 versions of kdelibs at once because some dumb program needed one single call from the old versoin ...
02:19:58  <DJGummikuh> Eddi|zuHause2: xfce4 in my case
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02:20:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> err... all versions of KDE3 are supposed to be binary compatible
02:21:01  <DJGummikuh> Eddi|zuHause2: don't ask me...
02:21:43  <DJGummikuh> Eddi|zuHause2: it tried to emerge kdelibs 3.2.2 and kdelibs 3.somthing and complained about those two versions blocking each other, thus failing on everything
02:23:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> sounds funny ;)
02:24:59  <DJGummikuh> well my system is 100% kdefree :))
02:25:07  <DJGummikuh> and thus 100% kaffeine-free ^^
02:25:47  * Sacro has kdelibs and qt :(
02:25:53  <Smoovious> doncha just hate when you think you're planting trees on a wide area, and when you release the drag operation, you realize you had it on demolish instead?
02:26:00  <Sacro> roffle
02:26:09  <DJGummikuh> Smoovious: lol...
02:26:11  <Sacro> or when you do demolish and you dont realise your over a lake
02:26:20  <Smoovious> ya
02:26:21  <DJGummikuh> Smoovious: what happens then?
02:26:36  <DJGummikuh> err Sacro what happens then?
02:26:42  <DJGummikuh> Smoovious: hitting demolish is not so nice :)
02:26:45  <Smoovious> what happens? it means I don't have any hope of getting my rating up any time soon so I can get rid of that last building in my way
02:26:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> you pay insane amounts of money, DJGummikuh
02:26:53  <Sacro> DJGummikuh: it costs you a shedloads
02:27:01  <DJGummikuh> what I like is that you can go from normal rails to electrified rails without having to call in the trains
02:27:06  <Smoovious> don't suppose the grid could be displayed bright green instead of white for the tree tool?
02:27:25  <Sacro> yeah but it doesnt replace where the trains are
02:27:44  <DJGummikuh> Sacro: oh
02:27:47  <DJGummikuh> that explains a lot
02:27:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> there's some patch in the miniin that allows this
02:28:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> but it is incomplete
02:29:00  <Sacro> the patch is about 3 lines
02:29:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> it does not handle stations
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02:31:09  <Sacro> night all
02:31:10  <DJGummikuh> Eddi|zuHause2: hmm...
02:31:13  <Sacro> :o cloooooooooooooones
02:31:16  <DJGummikuh> Eddi|zuHause3: how many of you are there?
02:31:36  <Eddi|zuHause3> not clones, ghosts
02:31:43  <DJGummikuh> boowhoooh
02:31:46  <DJGummikuh> ^^
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02:32:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> DJGummikuh: it usually cycles between 2 and 3, which i don't understand
02:32:21  <DJGummikuh> Eddi|zuHause3: are you supposed to be named Eddi|zuHause?
02:32:31  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes
02:32:36  <DJGummikuh> hehe
02:32:59  <DJGummikuh> well you WERE here some day yesterday
02:33:05  <Eddi|zuHause3> but apparently, it tries the previous nick, and if that fails, it does not try the first, but the second nick in the list
02:33:46  <Eddi|zuHause3> so if i had 2, then it tries 2 again
02:33:49  <Eddi|zuHause3> and then 3
02:33:49  <DJGummikuh> yeah my client is cool when I ghost, it replaces the U in my nick with a 1, becoming "DJGummik1h"
02:34:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> i should just change the order in the list, but i did not find that option
02:34:42  <DJGummikuh> ^^
02:35:56  <Eddi|zuHause3> or i should make a bug report, and get this fixed ;))
02:36:49  <DJGummikuh> lol you seem totaly kde addicted ^^
02:37:00  <DJGummikuh> Konversation, Kaffeine, ...
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02:41:11  <Eddi|zuHause3> err... if i use KDE, i might as well do completely
02:41:18  <DJGummikuh> ^^
02:41:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> i also use Amarok, and Kopete
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02:42:21  <Eddi|zuHause3> and of course Konqueror ;)
02:42:29  <DJGummikuh> I use irssi... that way i'm independent from my platform...
02:43:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> and i'm going to use K3b now
02:43:26  <DJGummikuh> one ssh session is enough :)
02:43:28  <DJGummikuh> Eddi|zuHause3: lol
02:43:30  <DJGummikuh> you know k3d?
02:43:47  <Eddi|zuHause3> what is K3d?
02:44:01  <DJGummikuh> 3d editor
02:44:10  <DJGummikuh>
02:44:14  <Eddi|zuHause3> no, i don't think i have seen that ;)
02:44:25  <DJGummikuh> I'm not even sure if the k stands for kde
02:44:54  <DJGummikuh> hmm.. doesn't seem so
02:45:07  <Eddi|zuHause3> i also use KMail
02:45:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> and KMix
02:45:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> and KInternet
02:46:55  <DJGummikuh> I use evolution (yeah, gnome I know but it syncs with my pda) for mail, alsamixer for sound, and I don't know what KInternet is
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02:51:47  <Eddi|zuHause3> it's basically a GUI to start the internet connection, show activity, and show a protocol
02:52:23  <DJGummikuh> ah... ok I have xterm for that ^^
02:52:30  <DJGummikuh> actually i have xterm for most of the stuff I do :)
02:53:21  <Eddi|zuHause3> sure, there is probably no GUI in linux that has more capability than the console
02:53:41  <DJGummikuh> ^^ not exactly a gui in the means of definition :)
02:53:54  <Eddi|zuHause3> as basically all GUIs are just frontends to existing console apps
02:54:52  <DJGummikuh> well not really... take kopete for example... it doesn't have a cli routine as backend
02:55:02  <DJGummikuh> neither does kmail
02:55:49  <Eddi|zuHause3> i'm sure they have DCOP interfaces ;)
02:56:03  <DJGummikuh> hmm I dunno
02:56:46  <DJGummikuh> anyhow some years ago, I would've agreed... but today, there are several apps that don't have a console backend
02:57:06  <DJGummikuh> just take openttd for example ^^ ok it has it's console in dedicated mode but you can't exactly play the game in it :)
02:57:47  <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, if you really want to challenge the desktop market, you have to provide proper GUIs (in the windows manner)
02:58:28  <DJGummikuh> unfortunately I might add
02:58:38  <Eddi|zuHause3> i love GUIs ;)
02:58:40  <DJGummikuh> I'm prety comfortable with the console
02:59:06  <DJGummikuh> Eddi|zuHause3: I don't like them so much... because many gui developers feel the urge to reinvent the wheel with their guis
02:59:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r8339 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp:
02:59:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix(r8331): MSVC seems to be a little more strict (or less intelligent) then other compilers when it comes to operator precedence.
02:59:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: A copy of code from train_gui.cpp to build_vehicle_gui.cpp was not exactly the same.
02:59:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: The earlier version did not require parenthesis to specify correct operator precedence.
03:00:38  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, proper GUIs, that stick to certain base principles, are way more intuitive (especially to new users) than some awkward console command, that you have to read through thousands of man pages to even recognize their existance
03:00:58  <DJGummikuh> Eddi|zuHause3: well I would say the same about guis :D
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03:01:52  <DJGummikuh> if you are accustomed to console work you'll find out at some point that the handling is pretty much allways the same
03:03:16  <Eddi|zuHause3> what i found with the console, that programs are generally underdocumented
03:03:48  <Eddi|zuHause3> if i do <command> --help, i am pretty sure, it NEVER tells me, what this program is supposed to do
03:04:03  <glx> try man <command>
03:04:09  <DJGummikuh> hmm... yeah but in 99% the cases man command will do the job :)
03:04:14  <DJGummikuh> glx: darn you were faster ^^
03:04:18  <Eddi|zuHause3> it either says "usage: <command> -abcdefghijklmnopq"
03:04:52  <Eddi|zuHause3> or a 5 pages long version of that, with a non-descriptive explanation for each obscure option
03:05:17  <DJGummikuh> Eddi|zuHause3: lol...
03:05:53  <Eddi|zuHause3> and it's pretty much the same with man pages, they either say nothing, or way too much
03:06:02  <Eddi|zuHause3> and hardly ever i get some usage examples
03:08:05  <DJGummikuh> well what's #enterthenameofyourlinuxdistro in for? :D
03:09:17  <Eddi|zuHause3> try 'man #enterthenameofyourlinuxdistro' :p
03:10:07  <DJGummikuh> lol
03:13:28  <Eddi|zuHause3> hm... these commentators do like there's something extremely interesting happening, but i see nothing...
03:15:24  <glx> les than 1 minute left :)
03:21:53  <Eddi|zuHause3> apparently, the people that were expected to loose the whole game, actually won
03:24:17  <DJGummikuh> confusing sport :D
03:31:41  <Eddi|zuHause3> indeed it is ;)
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03:36:12  <SpComb> Logs:
03:36:12  <Digitalfox> !logs
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08:28:49  <ln-> it's...
08:38:22  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r8340 /trunk/src/roadveh_gui.cpp: -Cleanup (r8338): removed now unused header includes from roadveh_gui.cpp
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08:57:12  <peter1138> pom te pom
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09:14:07  <Darkvater> morning
09:16:28  <Darkvater> do I dare look through this day's commits by Bjarni ?
09:17:07  <Darkvater> Bjarni: r8327 << can you tell me what kind of point this function overload has? As far as I can see there is *absolutely* no need for this, just a single function and pass v->type as vehicle type
09:19:23  <ln-> huh, the project is now C++?
09:20:29  <stillunknown> relatively speaking
09:27:04  <peter1138> c with c++ bits
09:29:34  <Darkvater> WTF?
09:29:55  <Darkvater> r8331 SetupWindowStrings(const Window *w, byte type) ... w->widget[BUILD_VEHICLE_WIDGET_CAPTION].data
09:30:01  <Darkvater> since when is that a const window?
09:30:16  <Darkvater> I know I should not look through any of these commits o_O
09:35:27  <peter1138> o_O
09:37:05  <Darkvater> This should save CPU time in the (maybe unlikely) event that the list is invalidated more than once between two redraws
09:37:08  <Darkvater> ...
09:37:13  <Darkvater> another one your optimisations Bjarni ?
09:37:19  <Darkvater> without any profiling?
09:37:21  <peter1138> heh
09:38:38  <Darkvater> I seriously doubt what was wrong with 4 different widget-tables that got set up once instead of code all over the place to correct them all
09:39:53  <Darkvater> our C++ guru
09:39:54  <Darkvater> static inline byte VehTypeToIndex(const Vehicle *v)   436 {   437         return VehTypeToIndex(v->type);   438 }
09:40:15  <Darkvater> Bjarni: at least damn assert the v->type when you use it for array indexes
09:40:21  <Darkvater> jezus fuckin christ
09:40:58  * Darkvater mumbles something unintelligble and gets to work
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10:11:14  <Bjarni> ok, now we got past Darkvater's standard outburst regarding my commits
10:13:44  <ln-> expecting tron's next.
10:14:51  <guru3> every commit's a marathon eh
10:16:09  <Brianetta> That was quite entertaining
10:16:26  <Bjarni> for the record: that "optimisation" was mainly a thing to control when to regenerate the list. If it can only be called when creating the window and at the beginning of the draw event, then it's a bit nicer than when it was called all over the file
10:16:40  <Bjarni> Brianetta: I could do without it
10:17:06  <Bjarni> mainly the indication that I'm an idiot or whatever he tries to write between the lines
10:18:45  <Bjarni> the fact is not if he got a point or not, it's mainly the way he says it
10:19:32  <Brianetta> It should definitely have been in an email
10:20:15  <Bjarni> that or he should have ensured that I was able to reply right away
10:20:27  <Bjarni> but I had left the computer at the time
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10:23:00  <Bjarni> also I never claimed not to commit anything else to the file in question
10:23:45  <Bjarni> for all he know, I could be working on changing some of the stuff he mentioned
10:27:20  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r8341 /trunk/src/vehicle.h: -Codechange (r8336): added assert to VehTypeToIndex() to ensure valid vehicle types in the argument
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10:38:01  <Brianetta> A lot of people seem to be seeing vehicle operating losses greater than the magnitude of the running costs.
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10:44:05  <Rubidium> Brianetta: are those vehicles part of a transport chain? (i.e. do they use transfers?)
10:44:33  <Brianetta> Rubidium: Don't know.  Just commenting that it's a recurring theme on the forum.
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10:44:59  <Brianetta> It definitely seems odd that a vehicle can lose more money than its running costs, unless there's a refit order in there.
10:45:24  <Rubidium> yes, but with transfers that can be perfectly alright
10:45:30  <Brianetta> Really?
10:45:36  <Brianetta> How does it work?
10:46:27  <Rubidium> the (virtual) profit that is made up to the point that the cargo gets in the specific vehicle is substracted from the operating profit.
10:46:46  <Brianetta> oh
10:46:53  <Rubidium> when you reach your goal, the profit for the whole stretch (from the beginning) is calculated, which is then added
10:46:57  <Brianetta> so if it's the last leg, it can lose shedloads to the long-runner
10:47:24  <Rubidium> it can (especially with slow vehicles)
10:47:25  <Brianetta> I thought the idea was to prevent vehicles appearing as loss-makers on the vehicle lists
10:47:39  <Brianetta> This just seems to move the likely victim to another vehicle
10:47:50  <Rubidium> hmm, lets make an example to make it more clear:
10:48:19  <Rubidium> you've got 3 stations, one in the southeast, one in the northeast and one in the west.
10:48:30  <Brianetta> yes
10:48:34  <Rubidium> cargo is transported from southeast via west to northeast
10:49:05  <Rubidium> the first vehicle (train/whatever) transports it's cargo from southeast to west and gets paid for that trip (the yellow 'profit').
10:49:12  <Brianetta> yes
10:49:29  <Rubidium> and it is paid by the distance southeast->west
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10:49:38  <Brianetta> understanding dawns
10:49:47  <Rubidium> the next train transports it from west to notheast
10:49:49  <Brianetta> the sum of transfers is less than the end to end profit
10:50:40  <Rubidium> once the train gets paid at west, it received the amount of money that would be made by the whole trip from southeast to northeast - the money made by any previous trains
10:51:07  <Rubidium> as southeast-northeast is less than southeast-west, the last train can never make any profit
10:51:13  <Brianetta> Still, that makes the whole idea of having a transfer figure less useful
10:52:08  <Brianetta> No single vehicle can lose more than its running costs so the player is misled about the cause of the loss
10:52:12  <Rubidium> it is to make those trains not get a loss, and if you always transport away from the origin, all vehicles can make profit
10:52:35  <Rubidium> those first trains
10:54:32  <Brianetta> Perhaps it would be better not to increment the profit of any vehicle until the journey has completed.  Have the yelllow transfer figure display as a "transfer estimate" and then divide the ultimate profit by the ratio of distances travelled.
10:54:39  <Rubidium> calculating the profit from determining the length of the whole trip is bad, as you can make cargo hop over a number of stations with a lot of distance
10:54:55  <Brianetta> indeed
10:55:00  <Brianetta> Profit should be a-z
10:55:06  <Rubidium> Brianetta: that would be better, but much harder to implemented
10:55:21  <Brianetta> but vehicles' share of the profit should be based on ratio of a-b, b-y, y-z
10:55:41  <Rubidium> and their speed should be factored in too
10:55:47  <Brianetta> It would require storing tiles travelelled (Manhattan)
10:55:53  <Brianetta> and times, yes
10:56:09  <Brianetta> extra complexity, but if the entire journey is profitable, all vehicles appear profitable
10:57:09  <Brianetta> Both that scheme and the current one require retro-active adjustment
10:57:18  <Brianetta> although the current one is simple addition
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11:49:18  <peter1138> hmm
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11:58:47  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r8342 /branches/masterserver_updater/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs): [MSU] -Add: updating/adding of NetworkGameInfo and GRF info in the database.
12:00:23  <Zoney> Good mornign
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12:40:21  <Darkvater> Bjarni: knowing you I truly doubt you would've been working on the changes I mentioned
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13:08:26  <roboboy> gnoght
13:09:39  <Darkvater> fold bed, cover up, strangle ^^
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13:11:47  <Darkvater> mission successfull
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13:16:05  <Darkvater> :O
13:16:25  <Darkvater> just got a phonecall from home that there's a really bad plastic-burn-smell in the house
13:16:47  <Darkvater> thank god it was not my pc ^^
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13:32:53  <Brianetta> I just bought a ForceFX lightsaber
13:32:59  <Brianetta> for Helen
13:33:03  <Brianetta> because I love her that much
13:33:08  <Brianetta> It's a blue one
13:34:01  <Brianetta> It's snowing
13:34:15  <Darkvater> lightsaber? Like from star wars?
13:34:20  <Brianetta> yeah
13:34:24  <Darkvater> rofl
13:34:26  <Brianetta> google for forcefx
13:34:31  <Brianetta> see the price
13:35:59  <Darkvater> .collectable. - which basically means they change the colour of the blade every year or so and re-issue it
13:36:03  <Darkvater> hehe
13:37:22  <Sacro> Brianetta: snowing eh? which way is the weather gonig?
13:37:35  <Sacro> ie... should i wear my huge biker jacket when i go out
13:39:27  <Sacro> Ajaxterm ftuw
13:39:29  <Brianetta> It's heading south
13:39:44  <Brianetta> and no, better wear something water resistant
13:40:46  <SpComb> ajaxterm is cool indeed
13:42:01  <Sacro> Brianetta: south... thats where i am :(
13:42:10  <Brianetta> Darkvater: They don't change the colour of the blade.  They just limit them to runs of 10,000.
13:42:10  <Sacro> SpComb: indeed it is, means i might be able to irc from college :D
13:42:19  <Sacro> static ip + ajaxterm + bitchx
13:42:32  <Brianetta> If they changed the blade colour they's be lynched by the hardcore fans
13:42:40  <SpComb> next up: nstx
13:42:46  <Sacro> nsta?
13:42:48  <Sacro> err...
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13:42:52  <Sacro> nstx?
13:42:55  <SpComb> I tried to use it, but couldn't get it to work properly
13:43:00  <SpComb> googleta nobo
13:43:35  <hylje> en googleta, ite
13:48:15  <Sacro> ?
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14:08:18  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r8343 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp: -Cleanup: [build vehicle windows] added a few comments and removed two switch-cases, that we can do without
14:13:00  <SpComb> Logs:
14:13:00  <Digitalfox> !logs
14:19:01  <Brianetta> Darkvater: On changing included graphics files instead of overriding with newgrfs.  Perhaps OpenTTD should have a checksum of all files and whinge like a forum newb when they've changed?
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14:31:47  <Darkvater> Brianetta: it already whines, just more loudly for files that are bundled with openttd.
14:32:36  <Brianetta> Darkvater: You should make it delete itself, with a message to the effect that they aren't allowed to have a game like this if they can't treat it properly (:
14:34:02  <Darkvater> hehe
14:34:35  <Darkvater> in previous versions there was no check at all for the included files, but then we had some spurious and hard to trace bugreports about rare crashes, etc.
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14:34:54  <Darkvater> which were caused by people not updating their data files, just copying the executable
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14:35:21  <Darkvater> there was a similar problem with which did not show a popup, and the game crashed
14:35:36  <Darkvater> turned out the was from a demo version of TTD, thus not including maglev-sounds
14:36:11  <Darkvater> so it's much wiser to whine like a noob than to spend hours trying to fix a problem, just to find out the user was being stupid again
14:38:55  * Brianetta nods
14:39:29  <Brianetta> Feature request: Horn/whistle button on vehicle window.
14:39:34  <Brianetta> I want to toot.
14:39:40  <Brianetta> Not sure what a plane would do
14:39:43  <Darkvater> msn *nudge*
14:39:43  <Brianetta> perhas a sonic boom
14:40:05  <peter1138> 1heh
14:40:19  <Brianetta> peter1138: It'd be nice with your manual control patch
14:40:22  <Darkvater> it only makes sense with the self-drive fature
14:40:27  <Brianetta> indeed
14:40:43  <Brianetta> That feature is one of my favourite
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14:57:13  <Bjarni> Darkvater: I looked into your objection regarding the string naming and tried something else
14:57:14  <Bjarni>
14:57:39  <Bjarni> I'm not sure if this is an improvement though, but I'm curious to what you think about it
14:58:01  <peter1138> not realy
14:58:08  <Bjarni> the result (gameplay wise) is the same
14:58:16  <peter1138> with two ls
14:58:49  <Bjarni> two ls?
14:59:38  <Bjarni> well, it could be merged into only one for(), but then extending the window could mean a bit more work
15:00:36  <peter1138> "really", heh
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15:33:42  <Rubidium> Darkvater: any objections to ?
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15:47:02  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r8347 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp: -Codechange: [Graphs] Make some more variables local to the loops they're used in, and remove some assumptions about the size of an array.
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15:48:40  <Digitalfox> peter1138: One question, when and if the number of vehicles ID in OpenTTD is raised in the future, would it be possible to have set's like db set xl and US set be working at the same time??
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15:49:34  <Digitalfox> What i thought maybe could be done ( i'm no programmer, just asking ) is that when a vehicle ID is already in use, openttd changes this new ID to one not in use
15:50:24  <Digitalfox> Like train ID 01 is in use it would pass to ID 05 witch is free.. So we could have lot's of train set's at the same time..
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15:50:50  <caladan> maybe some kind of having two bitfields
15:51:01  <caladan> one would mean set and the other one vehicle in the set
15:51:11  <Bjarni> Digitalfox: VehicleID and EngineID aren't the same
15:51:16  <Bjarni> and I think you mean EngineID
15:51:35  <Bjarni> and we use 16 bits for it most of the places and eventually everywhere
15:51:38  <Digitalfox> Bjarni: Well yeah i guess you are right, but do you understand my idea?
15:51:56  <Bjarni> yeah
15:52:06  <Bjarni> but it's not that original
15:52:13  <Bjarni> you see, I said the same thing ages ago
15:52:14  <Digitalfox> Bjarni: Is it from a perpective of code be possible?
15:52:25  <Brianetta> dynamic IDs
15:52:36  <Brianetta> It'd mean a bit of work
15:53:25  <Digitalfox> This is one of the features that could put openttd far away from patch.. :)
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15:53:50  <Bjarni> one issue is that right now we got x trains, x road vehicle, x ships and x planes, so if I look at say engine 130, the type is already known before I even look at it
15:54:01  <Bjarni> and the code makes use of this
15:54:22  <Darkvater> Rubidium: that looks like some ugly hack at first glance. What is it supposed to solve?
15:54:50  <Bjarni> so when say I want to loop all ships, the code will only look at the engines, that are hardcoded to be ships
15:54:53  <Darkvater> Bjarni: that looks just as bad, perhaps even worse than what it is now
15:54:57  <Rubidium> multiple server started from the same openttd executable
15:55:11  <Darkvater> Bjarni: my thoughts on that area were more of a musing, than a flat-out objection
15:55:15  <Rubidium> it 'just' works, until two servers are getting download requests at the same time
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15:55:45  <Rubidium> as one server can overwrite the temporary savegame of the other
15:55:54  <Digitalfox> Bjarni: So the code would have to be changed for dynamic IDs, but it could be done at the same time the limit is raised.. :) Hope someone one day will work on this !!
15:56:08  <Darkvater> Rubidium: isn't _just_ tmpfile() enough for this?
15:56:23  <Bjarni> Darkvater: well, since the feedback was not all positive, I tried something else. I didn't really like the result either, but sometimes we got to make test code like that to figure out at least how not to do it ;)
15:56:38  <Rubidium> no, as you do not know the name of that file and SaveOrLoad needs the filename
15:57:26  <Rubidium> and after closing the file, it will (automatically) be removed
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15:57:49  <Bjarni> Digitalfox: it's not that simple. You need to change every single loop for this, then you can start to talk about how to actually store the engines as 16 bits
15:58:12  <Brianetta> Rubidium: Are you saying I guessed correctly, in that post where I said I hadn't bothered to read the source and couldn't be sure? (:
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15:58:48  <Rubidium> what post would that exactly be?
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15:58:54  <Brianetta> um
15:58:55  * Brianetta rummages
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15:59:45  <Brianetta>
15:59:46  <Brianetta> That one
15:59:50  <peter1138> Digitalfox: it is possible. i've done it
16:00:10  <Digitalfox> peter1138: You done it??
16:00:40  * Brianetta throws Digitalfox an auxiliary verb
16:01:46  <Darkvater> wt?
16:01:52  <Darkvater> The tmpfile function creates a temporary file and returns a pointer to that stream. The temporary file is created in the root directory. To create a temporary file in a directory other than the root, use tmpnam or tempnam in conjunction with fopen.
16:02:06  <Darkvater> tmpfile() creates a file in C:\ ?
16:02:08  <Darkvater> o_O
16:02:17  <peter1138> not $TEMP ?
16:02:19  <Brianetta> Darkvater: Yes, where there's a hard-coded file number limit on FAT16
16:02:20  <Darkvater> anyways
16:02:22  <peter1138> where did my mug go?
16:02:24  <Brianetta> and FAT32
16:02:44  <Brianetta> You can have only 255 entries in that directory in FAT16
16:02:46  <Darkvater> Rubidium: why not use tmpnam to get a temporary name and you don't have to change anything else
16:02:48  <Brianetta> which causes trouble
16:02:49  <Rubidium> there seems to be a tmpfile_s for Windows, but it doesn't seem to be available on my mingw
16:03:01  <Darkvater> peter1138: it says 'root directory'
16:03:13  <peter1138> hm
16:03:18  <Brianetta> His mug isn't in the root directory... oh.
16:03:56  <Rubidium> Darkvater: because then you will get undeleted savegames when the server crashes and such
16:04:06  <Rubidium> and you have to remove the savegame manually
16:04:13  <peter1138> oh, it's in the kitchen
16:04:45  <Brianetta> Rubidium: Temporary files left open by a crash are par for the course.  You can easily clean them up at the next startup, which helps a bit.
16:04:49  <Darkvater> Rubidium: well it cannot go on putting stuff in $ROOT
16:05:14  <Rubidium> Brianetta: what do you mean with easily?
16:05:35  <Darkvater> anyways
16:05:38  <Brianetta> Rubidium: Well, a batch file.  rm *tmp; openttd (-:
16:05:44  <Darkvater> If the file cannot be opened, tmpfile returns a NULL pointer. This temporary file is automatically deleted when the file is closed, when the program terminates normally, or when _rmtmp is called, assuming that the current working directory does not change
16:05:53  <Rubidium> and you've just deleted the savegame of another server
16:05:59  <Darkvater> you'll still get lingering tmpfiles if the server crashes with tmpfile()
16:06:14  <Brianetta> use a pid?
16:07:04  <Darkvater> though
16:07:11  <Darkvater> I'm heading home now :)
16:07:24  <Rubidium> Brianetta: using the pid in the filename does not solve anything
16:07:31  <Bjarni> Darkvater: <-- btw with all my commits lately, the fix for the list of vehicles with shared orders issue is now somewhat smaller
16:10:14  <peter1138> bah, just keep it in memory
16:10:20  <Rubidium> unless you check for temp files whether the process associated with the PID in the filename still exists and is an instance of openttd (which is really really ugly I think)
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16:12:44  <Brianetta> Rubidium: It's ugly, and it's how Linux handles crashed daemons right now.  Once PIDs wrap, it gets messy.
16:13:29  <Brianetta> However, if the files are marked as belonging to a PID, and that PID doesn't describe any process in the table, it's probably safe to remive the files.
16:16:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r8349 /trunk/src/ (vehicle.cpp vehicle.h vehicle_gui.cpp): -Codechange: replaced CMD_REFIT_VEH() and similar defines with real static inline functions
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16:26:48  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r8350 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp: -Codechange: [Graphs] Use DrawStringCentered instead of a hardcoded offset to make the string appear centred.
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16:48:41  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r8353 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Cleanup: added IsPlayerBuildableVehicleType() to autoreplace code (duplicated code removal)
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17:28:14  <Wolf01> ello
17:28:50  <hylje> hey
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17:32:28  <imaginner> hi
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18:28:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r8354 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
18:28:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-01-22 19:27:50
18:28:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: american - 1 fixed by WhiteRabbit (1)
18:28:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 5 changed by fukumori (5)
18:28:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: esperanto - 4 changed by LaPingvino (4)
18:28:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: japanese - 28 changed by ickoonite (28)
18:28:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: korean - 6 fixed, 151 changed by leejaeuk5 (157)
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19:12:33  <imaginner> any tcl devs here?
19:15:33  <scia> tcl devs?
19:16:00  <scia> you'll have better luck finding ottd devs here :p
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19:19:07  <imaginner> :) was talking with Brianetta another day, he's into tcl/tk I guess
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19:21:02  <eQualizer> In memory, the lower the CL, the better? CL2 wins CL3?
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19:26:42  <SpComb> oh, and
19:26:45  * SpComb celebrates
19:26:56  <SpComb> one month and an hour and six minutes of connectivity to OFTC
19:27:38  <hylje> liek zomg
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19:27:52  <SpComb> well, I've finally made it, I'm allowed to celebrate that
19:28:14  <SpComb> last time I almost got it I managed to Ctrl-a-s my irssi when I meant to Ctrl-a-d it a day before
19:28:28  <hylje> ctrl-a-q to the rescue
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19:51:11  <SpComb> hylje: I didn't notice it until about 10 minutes afterwards
19:51:27  <hylje> moral of the story
19:51:30  <hylje> rtfm
19:51:45  <SpComb> I was in a hurry and had to deatch my screen, accidentially hit s instead of d, and when it didn't detach I did it again, this time hitting d
19:52:02  <SpComb> thnce, it sat around XOFF'd for a while
19:52:10  <SpComb> it was rather annoying
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19:52:32  <caladan> i dont detach, i just close terminal :D
19:52:46  <hylje> :o
19:52:51  <SpComb> yesterday I managed to hit Ctrl-a-ESC, didn't notice it, and it got stuck in copy mode for a couple minutes... luckily I didn't ping out from OFTC or freenode
19:53:01  <hylje> i hope you have nonblock on
19:53:09  <SpComb> that doesn't help
19:53:18  <SpComb> that only applies to the screen-sshd interface
19:53:26  <hylje> saying to caladan
19:53:28  <SpComb> hmmk
19:53:33  <caladan> what is nonblock? :D
19:53:50  <SpComb> screen gives up on sshd after a short time
19:53:51  <hylje> stuff doesnt freeze if connection does
19:54:09  <caladan> hmmm, i log on to my server
19:54:14  <caladan> and have screen there
19:54:19  <SpComb> so if sshd blocks it's stdin, and thence screen's stdout, screen doesn't block all the windowes stdouts for ages
19:54:28  <caladan> so if i lose connection it just deattaches itself automaticly
19:54:39  <SpComb> instead, it only blocks them for a couple seconds, or whatever you set it to
19:55:15  <caladan> had some problems with screen and my im client long time ago, that could be it...
19:55:41  <caladan> thou now my server is in my LAN, so there's no problem with loosing connection :D
19:56:04  <Brianetta> imaginner: I'm a Tcler
19:56:37  <imaginner> Brianetta: I'm exploring Tcl right now, seems cool!
19:56:40  * SpComb was, in fact, just asked about python vs tcl
19:56:59  <SpComb> there's no comprehensive document about it that I could find, though
19:57:01  <caladan> i prefer FLTK :D
19:57:16  <Brianetta> It's extremely rapid for development of GUI apps
19:57:35  <Brianetta> SpComb: Somprehensive documentationon Tcl?
19:57:45  <SpComb> python vs tcl
19:57:52  <Brianetta> Oh
19:57:54  <hylje> i'd prefer comprehensive docs
19:57:56  <Brianetta> Not normally seen as competing
19:58:03  <imaginner> I'm trying to learn tcl through creating my OTTD-flavorizer app
19:58:17  <Brianetta> The people who invented Python invented Python becauase they didn't realise that Tcl existed.
19:58:23  <SpComb> there are some people that say they use tcl, python or perl "depending on their mood"
19:58:27  <SpComb> heh
19:58:31  <SpComb> python has OO..
19:58:34  <Brianetta> Tcl vs Perl was the old script war
19:58:37  <Brianetta> back in the early 90s
19:59:27  <Bjarni> guys, now that my build window commits have reach the nightly builds, I want to ask you: how does the 2D resizing work?
19:59:31  <Bjarni> is it confusing?
19:59:36  <Bjarni> or beneficial?
20:00:07  <SpComb> and TCL also has braces :P
20:00:27  <hylje> omg, braces
20:00:34  <SpComb> braces are silly
20:00:46  <Brianetta> Tcl's braces are string literal delimeters, though
20:00:54  <Brianetta> delimiters, too
20:01:52  <Bjarni> it's so nice to see that people pay attention to what I say
20:01:53  <Bjarni> :P
20:02:11  <hylje> isnt it
20:02:14  <Brianetta> Bjarni: I can only enlightn you with an "I don't know"
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20:03:04  <Bjarni> I read this as everybody, who got the nightly builds are so busy playing that they lack time to give feedbacks, because the new addition is so awesome
20:04:50  <SpComb> lists as strings? How rather weird
20:09:04  <Digitalfox> Bjarni: It work great :)
20:09:13  <Digitalfox> until now no problems
20:09:55  <Bjarni> it's not weird when they resize the "wrong" way?
20:10:32  <peter1138> hm
20:11:18  <Bjarni> but... "no problems" sounds nice :)
20:11:27  <Bjarni> even though I expected that
20:11:35  <Bjarni> I did try it before committing
20:12:44  <Smoovious> wow... a 2048x2048 with towns/industries set to 'high' is insane
20:14:35  * SpComb goes away hugging his python
20:14:40  <scia> I always set the towns and industries to low on maps >512x512
20:14:45  * hylje hugs said python
20:14:58  * scia hugs his cat
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20:15:43  <Brianetta> Darkvater:
20:16:21  <peter1138> bloooo
20:17:08  <MiHaMiX> Brianetta: :D
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20:18:13  <Digitalfox> Bjarni: "wrong" way??
20:19:07  <Smoovious> scia... I always set them low too... but on 1024x1024 and higher maps, I'd like to be able to set them even lower sometimes
20:19:20  <Digitalfox> Bjarni: Can't the size be saved?
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20:19:38  <scia> Smoovious: agreed
20:20:01  <Digitalfox> I mean when we resize, can't it became default?
20:20:09  <Smoovious> just looking it over tho... if everyone playing concentrated on connecting cities to each other, after 200 years, could end up with just 1 big massive metropolitan area
20:20:33  <hylje> eight companies :-)
20:21:59  <hylje> SpComb: monty python coming in yle teema
20:22:21  <SpComb> I don't have TV
20:22:24  <hylje> o
20:22:27  <hylje> shame :p
20:22:51  <SpComb> besides, python is funny, tcl people are all boring :P
20:23:16  <Tefad> that was so horrible
20:23:26  <Tefad> i forgot to put on my oops i crapped my pants
20:23:29  <Tefad> and i just did.
20:23:50  <hylje> what
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20:29:11  <Sillium> Hi everybody
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20:35:19  <Bjarni> 	<Digitalfox>	Bjarni: Can't the size be saved? <-- what do you mean?
20:36:12  <imaginner> hi
20:36:19  <Digitalfox> Bjarni: Well i resize the trains window, and i want the next time i open it it keeps the same size..
20:36:30  <Bjarni> hmm
20:36:31  <Bjarni> good idea
20:36:35  <Bjarni> but...
20:36:42  <Bjarni> how to do that...
20:37:24  <Digitalfox> Bjarni: Could it be keep ( the window size ) in openttd cfg ??
20:37:52  <Digitalfox> Like having a section with windows sizes..
20:38:01  <Bjarni> at first, I prefer to keep it in the RAM and then get that part to work
20:38:23  <Digitalfox> ok :)
20:38:24  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r8356 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp: -Codechange: [Graphs] Rename mx to highest_value, and fix the scaling for negative values.
20:38:27  <Bjarni> I will not save settings that I haven't figured out how to use yet
20:38:47  <Digitalfox> Bjarni: But you like the idea or is too crazy?
20:39:08  <Maedhros> the scaling code is still a bit mysterious, and broken if highest_value > (height of graph in pixels << 32)
20:39:21  <Maedhros> unfortunately, the only replacements i've come up with so far are even more broken ;)
20:39:54  <Bjarni> Digitalfox: it's crazy, but that never stopped me before :P
20:40:29  <Digitalfox> Bjarni: So get to work my slave.. ;) lol
20:40:51  <Sillium> Can anyone do me a favour and point me in the right direction. I was reading a lot in the forums and the wiki but I don't know where to start..
20:41:04  * Bjarni is already hard at work with build_vehicle_gui.cpp
20:41:10  <Bjarni> just not the size this time
20:41:26  <Sillium> I loved TTD and would like to help developing OTTD
20:41:40  <Bjarni> Sillium: -> that's an arrow pointing right, so now you got a point in the right direction
20:42:02  <Sillium> ahh.. I see ;)
20:42:05  <hylje> <-
20:42:23  <Bjarni> the right direction of what?
20:42:32  <Bjarni> the code?
20:43:01  <Bjarni> if you say what you intend to do, it could be easier to tell you how to do it
20:43:03  <Sillium> is flyspray the place to look or the sourceforge page or both?
20:43:17  <Bjarni> flyspray
20:44:11  <Sillium> can I assign a task to myself if I'm interested in doing it?
20:44:22  <Bjarni> no
20:44:29  <Sillium> ahh ok
20:44:33  <Bjarni> but you can ask to be assigned to it if you like
20:44:42  <Bjarni> then we will consider it
20:44:54  <Sillium> ahh ok that sounds nice
20:45:06  <Sillium> (sorry if my english is a little sloppy)
20:45:23  <Sillium> and who to ask?
20:45:25  <Bjarni> if everybody could assign tasks to themselves, then we would be spammed with assigning everything to some random guy all the time
20:45:34  <Sillium> hehe.. yeah that's true
20:45:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r8358 /branches/newhouses/ (115 files in 13 dirs): [newhouses] -Sync with trunk -r8148:8356
20:45:49  <Bjarni> well, you could ask me
20:46:36  <Sillium> what would you do if you where new to openttd development (like me)? try to fix a bug or try to implement a small feature
20:46:52  <Sillium> I mean I have to get to now the code first
20:47:30  <Bjarni> the first thing I did was to port the whole thing to OSX
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20:47:50  <Bjarni> but less will do
20:47:54  <Sillium> hmm... ok.. that's maybe a bit to much for me at the moment :)
20:48:03  <Maedhros> try and find something that interests you that you want to change
20:48:10  <imaginner> Sillium: did you manage to build the game on your own?
20:48:26  <Sillium> if you mean to compile it: yes
20:48:44  <Sillium> I'm not that new to programming.. I'm just new to ottd
20:48:48  <Sillium> ;)
20:48:55  <Bjarni> that's a good start
20:49:12  <Bjarni> then I figure that you also got svn and know how to use it
20:49:19  <Sillium> check
20:49:24  <imaginner> I'm not new to programming too, but failed at compiling it
20:49:32  <imaginner> not that I tried very hard
20:49:40  <Bjarni> ./configure && make
20:49:45  <Bjarni> now that's tricky :P
20:49:46  * imaginner is a total C++ noob
20:49:56  * imaginner C too
20:50:11  <imaginner> what about Windows?
20:50:16  <Bjarni> if it fails to compile, then either you are missing mandatory libs (configure should tell you that) or there is a bug
20:50:24  <Bjarni> windows is for losers :P
20:50:30  <glx> imaginner: same in windows :)
20:50:35  <imaginner> Bjarni: thanks
20:50:38  <imaginner> :)
20:50:39  <glx> (with mingw and msys)
20:50:50  <imaginner> ah
20:51:03  <imaginner> so maybe I just tried it the wrong way
20:51:12  <glx> but you can use visual studio express 2005 and follow the wiki
20:51:18  <imaginner> I tried that
20:51:25  <Sillium> Bjarni_ what about:
20:51:45  <imaginner> but something failed me, I'll try again some day :)
20:52:21  <caladan> hmm, i just wonder, how many of you uses windows, and how many *nix systems...
20:52:33  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r8359 /trunk/src/lang/ (41 files in 2 dirs): [Translations] -Change: Removed the .UTF-8 suffix from isocodes
20:52:37  <Sillium> imaginner what error did you get? i compiled it with 2005
20:54:28  <imaginner> hold on a second
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20:57:11  <imaginner> there is something wrong my winnt.h and my winbase.h files, I get syntax errors
20:58:04  <Sillium> do you have the platformSDK installed and configured as explained in the wiki?
20:58:21  <imaginner> yup
20:58:39  <imaginner> tell you what I'm gonna retry everything
20:58:44  <imaginner> as in the wiki
20:58:50  <imaginner> see if this helps
20:59:22  <Sillium> give it a try
20:59:29  <Bjarni> Sillium: <-- if you like, you can try to get this one to compile again
20:59:32  <Bjarni> it's a bit outdated
21:00:13  <Bjarni> maybe start with just getting compatible filter or something
21:00:46  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r8360 /trunk/src/lang/ (korean.txt simplified_chinese.txt):
21:00:46  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [Translations] -Fix: removed 4 empty strings from simplified chinese translation
21:00:46  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: added dummy ownname to Korean, translator will have to supply it through WT2
21:01:04  <Sillium> sound good to me :)
21:01:58  <Sillium> great... so i'll have something to do tomorrow evening :D
21:01:58  *** scia [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
21:03:16  <Sillium> thanks Bjarni
21:03:53  <Brianetta> I just discovered that there's an Expect implementation for Python
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21:14:20  <nairan> i found a bug i think
21:14:55  <nairan> if ticker is on and it do the beeps and like newspaper is opening then it gets distorted and annormally loud
21:17:01  <glx> only if you get two news "at the same time"
21:17:10  <nairan> or while ticker beeps and games saves it also distorts
21:22:13  <nairan> cool invisible sawmill
21:22:41  <Maedhros> please can someone check this, and make sure that it's not going to implicitly convert anything into an int at an inopportune moment or something?
21:22:44  <Maedhros>
21:25:22  <Brianetta> Ooh, Expect on Python has non-greedy regexps, which is the opposite of Tcl's Expect
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21:38:20  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r8361 /trunk/src/network/ (core/game.h core/udp.cpp network_udp.cpp):
21:38:20  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: make sure the range of the dates coming from the network are valid in OpenTTD
21:38:20  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: use_password is a boolean variable
21:38:20  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: move range checking for server_lang and map_set to Recv_NetworkGameInfo
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22:27:42  <Tron_> Maedhros: uh, i don't think using ALIGN there is a good idea
22:28:07  <Maedhros> Tron_: why not?
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22:28:48  <Tron_> because the alignment value being a power of two is just luck
22:28:50  <Tron_> brb
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22:28:58  <Maedhros> ah, good point
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22:30:52  <Maedhros> Tron: good point
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22:31:09  <orudge|ca> !seen True*
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22:41:19  <Maedhros> Tron: how about this, or is there a more efficient way to do it?
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23:10:14  <Maedhros> night
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23:23:34  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r8362 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp:
23:23:34  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: [vehicle build window] moved the engine drawing loop to a function of it's own
23:23:34  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix (r8335): [vehicle build window] ship sprites were moved two pixels to the left
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23:46:06  <Bjarni> Sacro: (.)(.)
23:46:17  <Sacro> BREASTS XD
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23:56:37  <Wolf01> 'night
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