Log for #openttd on 12th March 2007:
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00:15:10  <Patrick> are you guys doing a GSOC mentoring application by any chance
00:15:24  <Patrick> and if so, have the 15 guys who'd apply for it first all died in freak accidents?
00:15:36  <Smoovious> GSOC?
00:15:42  <Patrick> google summer of code
00:16:02  * Smoovious shrugs.
00:16:24  <Patrick> I'm not a random drifter, by the way
00:16:26  <Patrick> (sup)
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00:24:26  <Bjarni> heh. I just looked at a diff and I think it's not being updated/finished
00:24:36  <Bjarni> it's still using .c files
00:24:55  <Bjarni> and doesn't know of the makefile rewrite
00:26:25  <Bjarni> looks like development died when I pointed out networking issues in it
00:26:29  <Smoovious> or so I claim?!
00:26:30  <Smoovious> hehe
00:26:53  <Smoovious> how old is the diff?
00:27:00  <Smoovious> or how long ago did you get it?
00:27:56  <Bjarni> 7512, downloaded an hour ago
00:28:02  <Bjarni> from the forum
00:28:20  <Bjarni> oh well, I just want to reuse the GUI
00:30:28  <Smoovious> 7512?!
00:30:32  <Smoovious> wow...
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00:31:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> just a random thought... that fixed point data type that Celestar was messing around with should be used for money, that way, the factors could be adjusted better (like 1£=1.5EUR)
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01:39:14  * Smoovious drops a pin.
02:01:48  * mggrant catches it before it hits the ground
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02:01:59  <mggrant> (long drop)
02:02:27  * Mortomes wakes up at the sound of pins being caught.
02:07:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... 21 wagons, and a multiplier of x2 gets to the limits of my BR 38
02:08:42  <Smoovious> I like to keep my multiplier at x5
02:08:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> only reaches 55km/h on level ground
02:09:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> instead of 60km/h, which is the speed of the wagons
02:09:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> let's see how my E 52 do in comparison
02:10:36  * Mortomes will gladly accept your E 52 :D
02:11:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> what would you want with my E 52?
02:12:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> anyway, they seem to get up to speed on slopes even
02:12:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> only the track is too crowded, so they basically stop at every signal
02:13:05  * Mortomes nods.
02:15:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> that setting is good, i'm gonna keep it for now.
02:15:12  <Smoovious> time for another mainline track
02:20:18  <Smoovious> random thought: I wonder if CS is even aware of OpenTTD, and if so, what he thinks of it...
02:21:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> afaik, people have contacted him, but got no answer
02:22:07  * Smoovious nods.
02:29:25  <Ailure> <<
02:29:32  <Ailure> I heard somewhere they dislike ttdpatch
02:29:32  <Ailure> xD
02:29:39  <Ailure> *that they
02:29:41  <Ailure> nothing about openTTD though
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02:31:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> yay for 24h disconnect ... NOT
02:34:07  <Ailure> ok this might be a bit awkard question
02:34:11  <Ailure> but what would work better :o
02:34:20  <Ailure> 256x2084 or 2084x256?
02:34:21  <Ailure> xD
02:34:29  <Ailure> eh 2048
02:34:30  <Ailure> whatever
02:34:41  <Eddi|zuHause3> you are right! :p
02:34:52  <Ailure> >> That's not a proper answer.
02:34:52  <Ailure> xD
02:35:08  <Eddi|zuHause3> that's a proper response to your first sentence
02:35:36  <Ailure> :P I guess then.
02:35:59  <Ailure> WSell i'm going to start a openTTD server for a ROM hacking community, but i'm not sure what would be fun settings. <<
02:36:14  <Ailure> My PC is quite powerful, so server-side perfomance won't be a problem.
02:36:31  <Ailure> but I don't want people to desync
02:36:57  <Eddi|zuHause3> desync has absolutely nothing to do with this
02:37:16  <Eddi|zuHause3> besides, all clients must have the same calculation power as the server
02:37:21  <Ailure> well larger maps = larger packets <<
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02:37:27  <Ailure> and yeah, I know that
02:37:33  <Ailure> or rather
02:37:35  <Ailure> not larger packets
02:37:39  <Ailure> but more bandwidth is needed
02:38:02  <Eddi|zuHause3> the biggest limitation is usually the size of the savegame, that has to be transferred on join
02:38:17  <Eddi|zuHause3> all other bandwidth usage is constant
02:39:08  <Ailure> well if people desynch I should just incrase the delay :/
02:39:13  <Ailure> although I rarely have to go with a high value
02:39:25  <Ailure> unless it's a amerian with a AOL account
02:39:35  <Ailure> xD that usually cause desynchs on servers I ran in the past
02:39:52  <Smoovious> desync has nothing to do with delay either
02:39:59  <Ailure> but packet loss?
02:40:02  <Smoovious> the desyncs is a checksum-type error
02:40:26  <Smoovious> showing that what the client has, and what the server has, aren't matching up anymore
02:40:28  <Ailure> I mean, I gotten desyncs on unreliable networks <<
02:40:33  <Ailure> I know what a desync is
02:40:38  <Ailure> desyncronistation
02:40:46  <Smoovious> I'm not sure you do, from the context you were using it in
02:41:45  <Eddi|zuHause3> what you are describing is more likely a "connection lost" error
02:41:47  * Smoovious grins, waits for the flame
02:41:50  <Ailure> eh I meant
02:41:59  <Ailure> net_frame_freq
02:42:05  <Ailure> and it erports as desync <_<
02:42:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> no, desyncs are errors in the internal game logic
02:42:40  <Ailure> I know
02:42:42  <Smoovious> it reports as a network or timeout error... not a desync
02:42:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> they have nothing to do with the network
02:42:57  <Ailure> The game is run on every client
02:43:02  <Smoovious> yes
02:43:06  <Ailure> I know that
02:43:11  <Ailure> and as soon one session differs from other
02:43:13  <Ailure> it's a desync
02:43:15  <Smoovious> right
02:43:25  <Smoovious> but that isn't because of networking...
02:43:39  <Smoovious> because both sides are still communicating fine with each other
02:43:42  <Ailure> well then how come I gotten desynch errors with networks who have high packet loss? >_>
02:44:06  <Ailure> and quite often too
02:44:14  <Ailure> I rarely use that network though
02:44:40  <Ailure> connection isn't lost either, as I been able to download huge files from same server
02:44:56  <Ailure> unless...
02:45:08  <Smoovious> possibly because one of those packets, included a command that changed the state of something, and the other end didn't receive it and it wasn't acted on... later, when the data was checksum'd they differed... and you got a desync
02:45:19  <Ailure> yeah
02:45:23  <Ailure> I assumed that
02:45:23  <Eddi|zuHause3> downloading probably has completely different timeout settings
02:45:28  <Smoovious> if you got dropped, because of the dropped packets themselves, you'd get a timeout or network error... not a desync
02:45:53  <Ailure> well I swear it being reported as a desync error <<
02:45:59  <Ailure> I should try again I guess
02:46:04  * Smoovious sighs.
02:46:09  <Ailure> and see what it says
02:46:13  <Smoovious> there is a distinct difference between them
02:46:17  <Ailure> I know
02:46:19  <Ailure> i'm well aware
02:46:33  <Ailure> Maybe my memory is just wrong about what error is shown
02:46:44  <Smoovious> the networking problem isn't being reported as a desync... you're not being booted because of networking... you're being booted because of data mismatching...
02:47:13  <Ailure> And two sessions can go diffrent incase the wrong packet were lost?
02:47:20  <Ailure> and leading to a desynch?
02:47:53  <Smoovious> now, the packet loss may be contributing to it... but the packet loss, in and of itself, isn't causing the desync errors...
02:48:25  <Ailure> well that makes sense then
02:48:56  <Ailure> I remmember older TT's
02:49:03  <Ailure> where desyncs happened but were ignored
02:49:06  <Ailure> until the game crashed...
02:49:18  * Smoovious nods.
02:49:22  <Ailure> such as with a player airport existing on one computer
02:49:24  <Smoovious> there is still the occasional desync
02:49:26  <Ailure> but not at all on the other
02:49:36  <Ailure> yeah but they're rare
02:49:58  <Ailure> I only gotten them becuse of some packets getting lost, making my game session bit diffrent. >_>
02:50:02  <Ailure> Multiplayer uses UDP right?
02:50:03  <Smoovious> 0.4.8 was crazy with them when I was playing it
02:50:18  <Smoovious> 0.5.0 was a huge improvement
02:50:25  <Ailure> Heh
02:50:33  <Ailure> inbetween I just started playing nightlies
02:50:41  <Ailure> as the last stable became unbearable to play with the missing features
02:51:46  <Ailure> Such as playing UKRS, and having to replace wagons by hand. D:
02:52:43  <glx> Ailure: multiplayer uses tcp
02:52:50  <Ailure> oh really?
02:52:52  <Ailure> hmm...
02:52:56  <glx> UDP is used to query servers
02:53:09  <Ailure> ah then damnit
02:53:16  <Ailure> I kinda assumed in above conversation
02:53:21  <Ailure> that UDP was used ingame
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02:53:41  <Ailure> and lol
02:53:54  <Ailure> note to self
02:54:05  <Ailure> select firefox before you close a tab with ctrl+F4
02:54:13  <glx> :)
02:54:21  <Ailure> I have two monitors D:
02:54:29  <Ailure> Not the first time I done that screwup
02:55:11  <Ailure> but now I kinda feel stupid for assuming that openTTD uses UDP <<
02:55:14  <Ailure> datagrans
02:55:26  <Eddi|zuHause3> my "screwups" are usually of the sort: press F1 while not in OTTD window
02:55:48  <glx> usually that open an help
02:56:02  <Ailure> or pressing delete :)
02:56:17  <Ailure> I done that in a few programs now...
02:56:34  <Eddi|zuHause3> i never use delete in OTTD
02:56:52  <glx> useful to close all windows
02:56:58  <Ailure> yeah
02:57:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> i know, but i don't use that
02:57:08  <Ailure> when I do something, I usually wind up opening alot of stuff
02:57:18  <Ailure> so I maybe press delete once a minute xD
02:57:21  <Ailure> or twice even
02:57:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> mostly, because my right hand is on the mouse
02:57:31  <Ailure> if I want to kep something up fo longer
02:57:42  <Ailure> I use the sticky button
02:57:51  <Ailure> such for trains i'm currently watching
02:57:52  <Eddi|zuHause3> so it's easier to click on 5 x than move the hand to the keyboard
02:59:06  <Ailure> well, delete key is part of my muscle memory :)
02:59:09  <Smoovious> what I hate is typing rapidly and hitting that key next to the right ctrl button without noticing, and suddenly I got dozens of windows and programs trying to open
02:59:15  <Ailure> so I just press it while doing other stuff with my mouse
02:59:40  <glx> context menu key?
02:59:44  <Smoovious> hate having those buttons between ctrl and alt
02:59:50  <Ailure> The windows key?
02:59:57  <Smoovious> yes yes
03:00:08  <Ailure> It's supposed to be called something else but heh
03:00:17  <Smoovious> the keyboard I use most of the time doesn't have them...
03:00:20  <glx> I often use windows key
03:00:20  <Ailure> I only got annoyed with it in the early Win95 days
03:00:25  <Ailure> as it was too easy to press on it
03:00:31  <Ailure> I wind up using Ctrl+esc
03:00:31  <Ailure> xD
03:00:34  <Ailure> sometimes
03:00:46  <Ailure> It's muscle memory from the time when I didn't have windows key
03:00:48  <Ailure> and it's stuck
03:02:36  <glx> the most dangerous key are "sleep" and "shutdown"
03:02:50  <Smoovious> I use the spaces to line up my hands to type... hate having to look at the keyboard
03:03:08  <glx> they are above printscr and pause on my keyboard
03:03:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> that sounds fun :p
03:03:45  <Ailure> [04:02] <glx> the most dangerous key are "sleep" and "shutdown"
03:03:50  <Ailure> I never use the sleep key
03:04:00  <Ailure> it's there to mock me when I press it by mistake
03:04:01  <Ailure> xD
03:04:04  <Ailure> it's right above esc
03:04:26  <Ailure> infact, oht of the extra keys on the keyboards I had
03:04:31  <Ailure> I only use the volume control
03:04:43  <glx> I set them to open the shutdown menu (less dangerous)
03:05:13  <Eddi|zuHause3> i think i haven't assigned functions to half of them
03:05:31  <Eddi|zuHause3> the email key was set by default
03:05:44  <Eddi|zuHause3> and i set up the music related keys
03:07:04  <Eddi|zuHause3> but again with the right-hand-situation, i rather use the win+[yxcvb] to control amarok
03:07:52  <glx> y?? what is your keyboard type?
03:08:10  <Eddi|zuHause3> qwertz. of course ;)
03:08:32  <glx> I'm too used to azerty
03:12:36  <Eddi|zuHause3> what does azerty have at that position?
03:12:47  <glx> w of course
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03:13:12  <Triffid_Hunter> ;qjkx here ;)
03:13:28  <Mortomesleeping> dvorak ftw :P
03:13:42  <Eddi|zuHause3> urgs... i probably couldn't type a single correct word on that :p
03:14:36  <Triffid_Hunter> takes a while to get used to, but i'm lovin it, especially for coding because the punctuation is in far more accessable places
03:15:00  * Mortomesleeping nods.
03:15:24  <Mortomesleeping> Started using dvorak about 3 months ago and have fallen in love with it :)
03:16:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> i'm already getting confused if i accidently happen to sit in front of a qwerty
03:17:02  * Mortomesleeping crashes into bed.
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06:35:00  <roboboy> does openttd save the settings to your cfg if yo change them?
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07:28:17  <MiHaMiX> roboboy: yes
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08:47:07  <CoRnJuLiOx> when you've got a feeder system set up, the profit numbers are in yellow as opposed to green or red. what does that mean?
08:53:02  <Triffid_Hunter> transferred cargo I think
08:53:52  <CoRnJuLiOx> i mean is it a loss or profit?
08:54:08  <CoRnJuLiOx> do i lose money or gain it by transferring?
09:00:16  <CoRnJuLiOx> and what is a heightmap?
09:04:10  <Triffid_Hunter> transfers just mean the final profit has to be shared amongst all the vehicles in the route
09:04:33  <Triffid_Hunter> heightmap would be a map of heights :P
09:06:11  <CoRnJuLiOx> but why does it get its own special "load heightmap" button?
09:06:13  <TinoM> in a heightmap the colors correspond to a height (usual a greyscale)
09:06:58  <TinoM> so ottd can generate maps after eg real world heightmaps
09:07:16  <Rubidium> because a heightmap is a png or bmp image, not a default scenario or savegame
09:08:45  <CoRnJuLiOx> ahh
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10:27:20  <peter1138> Tron: any progress on fs#640?
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10:48:48  <pager7> jemand hier?
10:49:44  <pager7> bei 0.5.0 wurde gepfuscht
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10:53:19  <pager7> das ding läuft nicht auf w98se, obwohl alles an seinem platz ist
10:53:22  <blathijs> pager7: If you speak english, please do so
10:53:44  <pager7> ok, sir
10:53:52  <blathijs> I'm unsure if win98 was still supported
10:54:09  <blathijs> IIRC 0.5.0 release should run on win98
10:54:19  <blathijs> pager7: Do you get any specific error message?
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10:54:22  <Nigel> it's on the homepage
10:54:30  <pager7> no no no
10:54:44  <pager7> i mean the ottd 0.5.0
10:54:48  <Nigel> had a recent statement re: win98
10:54:51  <blathijs> Nigel: That's about nighlies
10:55:57  <pager7> i had the 0.4.8 versin of ottd ... and updated now of 0.5.0
10:56:23  <blathijs> pager7: Can you be more specific about the problem? Any error message? What happens?
10:56:34  <Nigel> blathijs: those statements are valid still for 0.5.0 no?
10:56:52  <Nigel> after all, 0.5.0 does have UTF support
10:57:43  <pager7> :) thats for fonts, right?
10:57:49  <blathijs> Nigel: Nightlies are built using the compile farm, while releases are built using VC
10:58:20  <Nigel> blathijs: but the statements have been around UTF support, (Win 9x had no UTF support)
10:58:52  <pager7> ok - stop
10:59:16  <pager7> only a simpe different
10:59:24  <blathijs> Nigel: but, there is no specific "win9x" 0.5.0 release, so I presume win32 is supposed to work in win98 too?
10:59:25  <pager7> simple
11:00:54  <pager7> 0.4.8 find the in folder "data" ... and 0.5.0 dont find that
11:01:06  <Nigel> blathijs: (MSLU)
11:01:08  <blathijs> ah
11:01:33  <blathijs> pager7: perhaps the folders have been changed?
11:01:37  <pager7> compiler-prob?
11:02:08  <blathijs> pager7: Where did you put and friends? In the same dir as openttd.grf?
11:02:10  <pager7> no - all on the place like 0.4.8
11:03:20  <pager7> right - openttd is also in "data"
11:03:46  <pager7> openttd.grf -sry
11:03:56  <blathijs> hmm, that should be the right place...
11:04:04  <pager7> i know
11:04:07  <Nigel>
11:04:17  <blathijs> Unless that openttd.grf is an old version left by 0.4.8, while 0.5.0 changed the location
11:04:21  <Nigel> "Win9x will ONLY work with MSLU, the MS Unicode layer. You need to download this file from Microsoft and either put it into your OpenTTD directory or into windows\system. Don't worry, you'll know when you did something wrong (OpenTTD will complain about missing '' and all other files). "
11:05:21  <blathijs> wth? Why does it complain about missing files when there is no unicode support? Yay for clear error messages... Couldn't somebody have coded a simple check to give more useful error messages? :-S
11:05:33  <blathijs> pager7: It seems that that forum thread answers your question
11:06:33  <Nigel> for the download
11:07:10  <pager7> ok - i saw the tip during the installation ... but i thought the layer ist only for displaying the font in right form
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11:09:54  <pager7> okok ... i will download the "unicode-layer" ... involuntary
11:09:55  <blathijs> pager7: I think it's also used for handling filenames, which is why it results in this error (just a guess, though)
11:11:06  <Rubidium> well, sending 32 bit characters to a function that expects 8 bit characters might make the function mess up stuff
11:12:06  <blathijs> still, there should have been some way to detect this
11:13:03  <Rubidium> I really wonder how one would be able to do so
11:15:00  <blathijs> I seem to remember that there was a second set of functions with a "W" appended for this purpose, or something
11:15:36  <blathijs> and I could imagine that M$ would have added some way to detect that unicode _is_ supported (an extra variable somewhere, or an extra function that returns true)
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11:18:04  <Rubidium> blathijs: compile-time windows compiles all GetX to GetXW or GetXA depending on whether _UNICODE (or something like that) is set
11:18:14  <Rubidium> so it actually calls the GetXW functions
11:18:46  <PandaMojo> ...with a shitload of #defines, which is a pain in the ass if you ever reuse any of the names in C++ ;-)
11:20:40  <blathijs> Rubidium: But doesn't that mean the binary tries to call the GetXW function which doesn't exist on 9x?
11:20:54  <Rubidium> I guess so
11:20:59  <PandaMojo> Bingo.
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11:22:45  <blathijs> Rubidium: Then it should crash with a runtime linker error, right?
11:22:53  <pager7> ok ... where is the right place for the "unicows.dll"?
11:23:42  <peter1138> in the same directory as the executable
11:23:45  <Rubidium> apparantly the 'stubs' that are compiled into the binary handle that "gracefully"
11:24:07  <blathijs> ah
11:24:39  <blathijs> I'd rather just have it crash real hard than have the current (misleading) behaviour...
11:24:51  <Rubidium> pager7: you should've read the notices during the installation more carefully
11:25:04  <peter1138> blathijs: it confused me too :/
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11:27:11  <pager7> no, sorry - i didn't understand the notice, why i need this m$! - shit
11:29:58  <Rubidium> You need it because OTTD now supports unicode properly. To do that special Unicode functions are needed that are not available on Windows 9x, thus we needed Microsoft's wrapper and because Microsoft was so nice to us to not allow distributing the needed wrapper, you have to download it yourself
11:30:51  <peter1138> i thought it was the GPL that prohibited it? ;p
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11:31:09  <pager7> ok ... i have it now ... and i will try
11:31:34  <Rubidium> Microsoft didn't release the sources for it ;), but could've been gpl too
11:33:34  <blathijs> peter1138: I think that distributing a (closed) libary together with a GPL program is ok for the GPL
11:34:01  <blathijs> peter1138: Distributing a closed program that uses a GPL library is not okay, I think though
11:35:23  <PandaMojo> Not sure about the former, certain about the later.
11:35:30  <blathijs> But I presume that the EULA of the MS package won't allow it to be redistributed
11:35:58  <blathijs> Can't check, since the EULA of the package is only visible when installing it (And I do not have windows to run the installer...)
11:35:58  <pager7> ok - it seems to work - i can see the main-window
11:36:00  <PandaMojo> (Actually, the former works okay too, the possible problem would be GPLed sources depending on black boxed binaries)
11:37:02  <pager7> thanks for all!
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12:02:22  <jordi> blathijs: ok so I'm not sure you got the message, but the package is now in the entry queue
12:02:33  <jordi>
12:03:29  <jordi> blathijs: as for distributing a non-free lib with a GPL lib, AFAIK the GPL isn't hppy with that
12:04:34  <CoRnJuLiOx> *gasp* another UFO landed on my train tracks
12:04:41  <CoRnJuLiOx> damnit. is there any way to disable this?
12:04:55  <CoRnJuLiOx> im only waiting for the inevitable now.
12:05:11  <jordi> woa, ufos
12:05:16  <Rubidium> disable disasters...
12:05:17  <jordi> is that an old or new feature?
12:05:30  <CoRnJuLiOx> its in 0.5.0
12:05:31  <blathijs> jordi: Btw, I think there is an unclosed ITP left for openttd
12:05:41  <jordi> I looked for it, didn't find one
12:05:53  <jordi> I think it was closed by some -legal dude
12:05:53  <Rubidium> it's pretty old, as it is in TTD itself
12:07:31  <blathijs> jordi: ah, I closed it myself (#310994)
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12:19:30  <jordi> hm, svn is not browsable atm
12:20:05  <jordi> blathijs:  is the debian dir in pstream tarballs?
12:20:09  <jordi> upstream even
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12:22:24  <blathijs> jordi: There is a debian dir in upstream tarballs
12:22:33  <blathijs> jordi: not neccesarily an identical one
12:25:00  <jordi> blathijs: that is ime a bad idea, if there are official packages around
12:25:10  <jordi> the debian diff gets messy and polluted
12:25:47  <jordi> (what I've done in the past with upstream tarballs carrying a debian/ dir is to get rid of it and create another tar)
12:27:46  <blathijs> jordi: why does the diff get messy?
12:28:08  <blathijs> jordi: You can simply ignore the upstream debian dir (it is in os/debian/ not debian/)
12:29:17  <jordi> oh
12:29:19  <jordi> that's good
12:29:35  <jordi> ok, that changes things
12:29:50  <jordi> so people are told to mv os/debian to debian/ to build their stuff?
12:29:57  <blathijs> ln -s os/debian
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12:30:07  <jordi> nod
12:30:07  <blathijs> but it's not really documented anywhwere atm I think
12:30:31  <blathijs> It's also useful for building nightly .deb snapshots (which is not yet done, though)
12:30:31  <jordi> hopefully there won't be a big need soonish, if we get it in debian/ubuntu +
12:30:39  <jordi> nod
12:33:04  * blathijs is off to lab
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12:56:53  <neli> how can I destroy+buy in one action ?
12:57:12  <neli> if I destroy a piece of land, then the city immediately builds something there (road or building)
12:57:16  <neli> then I have to destroy again
12:57:26  <neli> not nice for my rating :-(
12:57:34  <Patrick> that's a pretty rare occurence
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12:57:51  <Mortomes> Yeah, usually takes the city a few seconds to build something there.
12:58:02  <Mortomes> (at least)
12:59:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> use hotkeys to e faster
13:02:06  <Patrick> the "owned land" signpost can be built on top of
13:02:16  <Patrick> so you can slam it down, then decide what to do with the land
13:02:21  <Patrick> although to be honest the town's so slow
13:03:32  <neli> not in my game
13:03:57  <neli> city builds within a second sometimes
13:08:21  <Patrick> maybe you've constrained the cities
13:08:21  <Patrick> I'm aggin' out here
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13:26:53  <CoRnJuLiOx> are maglev trains supposed to appear in the candyland theme?
13:27:07  <Patrick> yes, eventually
13:27:42  <CoRnJuLiOx> wee! i got them :-)
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13:46:50  <Eddi|zuHause3> you aren't honestly gonna tell us you survived a toyland game until then! :p
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13:59:59  <CoRnJuLiOx> eddi|zuHause3: no, i started one at 2020
14:00:03  <CoRnJuLiOx> i think toyland rocks
14:00:38  <Eddi|zuHause3> and now you're actually typing out my nick... you scare me...
14:01:04  <CoRnJuLiOx> i mean, i get the pleasure of seeing the looks on peoples faces if i ever shout out, "crap! stupid UFO got my route to the toffee quarry bombed!"
14:01:09  <CoRnJuLiOx> yes. i am scary
14:02:30  <CoRnJuLiOx> ok, if your train station and a competitors bus station are stationed at the same resource, which one gets the most goods?
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14:04:42  <Eddi|zuHause3> the one with the higher ratig
14:04:46  <Eddi|zuHause3> +n
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14:21:29  <mikk36|lap> Eddi|zuHause3, how is the rating calculated or what modifies it ?
14:22:13  <Eddi|zuHause3> you have an oracle right there... it's called "source code"
14:22:22  <mikk36|lap> damn :P
14:22:30  <mikk36|lap> ok, which file ? :D
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14:28:50  <Rubidium> mikk36|lap: it's in the wiki (user manual)
14:29:02  <mikk36|lap> damn u, Eddi|zuHause3 :PÜ
14:29:04  <mikk36|lap> -Ü
14:30:44  <mikk36|lap> hmm
14:30:49  <mikk36|lap> it's only a concept ?
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14:31:14  <Rubidium> what is only a concept?
14:31:26  <mikk36|lap> inthe wiki, there is no current one
14:31:47  <mikk36|lap> __TOC__
14:31:48  <mikk36|lap> ==Concept of new station rating model ''(by Skidd13)''==
14:32:05  <mikk36|lap> Economy1:Station Rating
14:32:05  <mikk36|lap> From OpenTTD
14:32:05  <mikk36|lap> Jump to: navigation, search
14:32:05  <mikk36|lap>     This article is a part of New Economy Model
14:32:05  <mikk36|lap> Please post suggestions here. They will be eventually written down here as a concept of station rating model.
14:33:12  <Rubidium>
14:34:44  <mikk36|lap> only the 15th link in 'page text matches' for 'rating'
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14:36:26  <mikk36|lap> damn.. so more and shorter trains gives more rating.. :(
14:40:39  <mikk36|lap> hmm
14:41:04  <mikk36|lap> there are no actions that affect town rating above 800, but what exactly rises it over 800 ?
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14:53:40  <SDK1985> hi
14:53:43  <SDK1985> I have a problem
14:53:45  <SDK1985> I have a server
14:53:54  <SDK1985> normally trains do not evenly load, they wait untill the first is full
14:54:00  <SDK1985> but now they all load a little
14:54:03  <SDK1985> then they are all full at once
14:54:08  <SDK1985> how do I change this back?
14:54:43  <Rubidium> it's a patch option called 'improved loading', though it might slow the game down dramatically
14:56:56  <SDK1985> I am using a console window
14:57:03  <SDK1985> improved_loading 1
14:57:04  <SDK1985> ?
14:58:51  <Rubidium> good question
14:59:01  <Rubidium> think patches <something> 1
14:59:46  <Rubidium> probably patches improved_load 1
14:59:53  <Smoovious> the patch name is "improved_load"... (or is it "gradual_loading")
15:00:20  <Rubidium> both are correct, but gradual_loading != improved_load
15:00:30  <Smoovious> I know they !=
15:00:46  * Smoovious grins.
15:00:55  <Smoovious> I'm just not sure exactly which does which :D
15:01:49  <Rubidium> improved_load tries to implement fifo-loading but in a horrible way
15:01:54  <Smoovious> ok... gradual_loading only handles loading X at a time... and improved_load only handles which cargo space is loaded
15:02:23  <Smoovious> yeah, I got road vehicles that sit and wait forever for a train or ship to finish loading
15:02:31  <Smoovious> they should be loading concurrently
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15:05:40  <Rubidium> it's fifo in the sense of "vehicle with the lowest ID is first"
15:05:48  <Rubidium> not the first vehicle that entered
15:06:24  <Smoovious> oh...
15:06:31  <Smoovious> yeah, that's not good
15:17:10  <SDK1985> I found it in the cfg
15:17:27  <SDK1985> wahts fifo now?
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15:20:37  <SDK1985> gradual?
15:22:29  <SDK1985> gradual is not in the cfg
15:22:33  <TheMask96> fifo = first in, first out...
15:22:56  <SDK1985> yes I know I study business administration
15:23:03  <SDK1985> but is there a patch called fifo?
15:23:19  <SDK1985> thats the improved loading?
15:24:09  <SDK1985> crap gtg, cya
15:24:10  <Rubidium> improved loading is, as I said before, a very bad implementation of fifo loading
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15:25:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9129 /trunk/src/ (fileio.cpp fileio.h functions.h os2.cpp unix.cpp win32.cpp): -Codechange: unify parts of DeterminePaths.
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15:28:37  <Sacro|Laptop> what happened there then?
15:29:07  <Rubidium> the return of ChanServ and NickServ
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15:37:46  <Smoovious> so, what does it take for a patch to make it into trunk?
15:38:36  <Rubidium> lot of effort
15:40:14  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9130 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp: -Codechange: move the fileio functions that do open a file into a Fio slot together.
15:41:57  <peter1138> pom te pom
15:43:15  <TheMask96> Smoovious: you need to bribe some developper :P
15:43:55  <Smoovious> uh huh
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15:52:55  <neli> where can I see the shortcuts for the tools ?
15:54:04  <Rubidium> wiki?
15:54:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9131 /trunk/ ( config.lib): -Codechange: move the OSX application bundle resource directories so they comply (better) to Apple's guidelines and to our naming 'scheme' for the lang and data directories.
15:57:42  <Belugas> [11:37] <Smoovious> so, what does it take for a patch to make it into trunk? <--  good written code, good and valuable feature, good documentation, good attitude.
15:58:59  <peter1138> and chocolate
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16:00:27  <Eddi|zuHause3> hmm... chocolate
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16:01:51  <Smoovious> welp, the rest is questionable as I haven't had any constructive criticism about the last patch I postedo n FS... but as far as the good attitude goes... well, guess I'm screwed
16:02:55  <Smoovious> I was thinking more along the lines tho... does X number of devs have to sign off on it or something? like, what's the process
16:06:33  <Rubidium> that's that patch you posted yesterday evening?
16:06:58  <Smoovious> ya... the chat_text one
16:07:23  <Rubidium> first, AddTextMessage completely overwrites the paramter you send to it
16:07:25  <Smoovious> well, I take that back, I did get some criticism
16:07:33  <Smoovious> my filename sucked. :D
16:08:03  <Rubidium> secondly the parameter seems to be completely useless, you can just get the time in AddTextMessage, no need to do that in all calling methods
16:08:12  <Rubidium> thirdly check your coding style
16:08:32  <Smoovious> thanky
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16:23:38  <Smoovious> k, I see what you mean about that... could probably do without 'duration' in AddTextMessage too...
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16:46:56  <imaginner> is there any place where OTTD's mp network protocol is described?
16:48:00  <Rubidium> what level of detail?
16:48:18  <Rubidium> do you want to know the on-wire format or how it works in general?
16:49:15  <imaginner> general stuff for now but more detail would be possibly needed later :)
16:49:29  <imaginner> I found the wiki page but it's marked outdated...
16:50:48  <Rubidium> there isn't much information about the higher level design AFAIK :(
16:51:38  <imaginner> take a look at
16:51:58  <imaginner> can you tell me how much up-to-date is it? Is it any good?
16:52:52  <mikk36|lap> yay
16:52:58  <Rubidium> up-to the todo it's probably fairly correct, after that it's better to look at the sourcecode (most of the packets send/receive functions describe the on-wire format)
16:53:01  <mikk36|lap> i just broke my personal records
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16:53:06  <mikk36|lap> record*
16:53:16  <mikk36|lap> 3 bsod ending windows installs in 2 days
16:53:24  <mikk36|lap> previous was 2
16:54:20  <imaginner> ok, thx a lot
16:54:43  <hylje> get better hardware
16:56:00  <Rubidium> hylje: that gives the opposite effect, you need crappy hardware so the installation fails way before it can ever show bsods
16:56:09  <mikk36|lap> hylje, last record was made by installing twice nvidia's latest network driver instead of one posted on the mobo maker's page
16:56:41  <mikk36|lap> this time, first 2 attempts were by installing win on nvidia stripe raid
16:56:57  <mikk36|lap> and third time by installing silicin image's driver :P
16:57:10  <mikk36|lap> silicon*
16:57:57  <mikk36|lap> fun, aint it ? :D
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17:26:49  <Wolf01> hello
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17:44:07  <imaginner> line 92 of src/network_data.h is mysterious for me, can anybody cast some light on it for me (C/C++ noob)
17:44:14  <imaginner> #define SEND_COMMAND(type) NetworkPacketSend_ ## type ## _command
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17:46:22  <imaginner> What does NetworkPacketSend_ mean / do?
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17:49:08  <KUDr> heh it only concats strings and make name from them
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17:49:51  <KUDr> "NetworkPacketSend_" and "_command" are constants and "type" is placeholder for macro argument
17:50:44  <KUDr> SEND_COMMAND(BlaBla) is replaced by NetworkPacketSend_BlaBla_command
17:50:45  <imaginner> aaaah
17:51:07  <imaginner> wonderful!
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17:51:11  <imaginner> thanks a lot! :)
17:51:12  <Smoovious> (just to test if he is following it himself) so you only need to specify 'TyPe' to it, for example, and the macro will fill it out to NetworkPacketSend_TyPe_command ?
17:51:14  <KUDr> no mystert there :)
17:51:14  * Smoovious grins.
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18:24:49  * Smoovious posts a new diff... probably still with style issues
18:27:56  <Smoovious> and I'm sure Bjarni is going to hate my filename even more now. :)
18:30:43  <Smoovious> is the repository online? (getting a connect error)
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19:29:07  * Smoovious touches the brim of his black hat™ to Bjarni
19:30:00  <peter1138> ®
19:30:26  <Smoovious> nope... not registered
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19:47:36  <Tefad> pwd
19:47:39  <Tefad> er
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19:59:13  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r9132 /trunk/src/lang/ (14 files in 2 dirs): [Translations] -Fix: Removed empty strings added by last commit
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20:04:26  <MeusH> hello
20:04:48  <Wolf01> 'lo
20:04:51  <Mortomes> hi
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20:14:18  <Bjarni> yes
20:14:24  <Bjarni> my exorcism worked :D
20:14:35  <Bjarni> the devil is banished
20:14:42  * Mortomes cheers.
20:15:02  <Mortomes> And who would have ever thought that the devil was from Denmark?
20:15:53  <Bjarni> green-devil is from Denmark?
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20:16:09  <Mortomes> Well, he has a .dk in his hostmask
20:16:29  <Bjarni> what is his full dns?
20:16:44  <Mortomes>
20:16:52  <Bjarni> ahh
20:16:53  <Bjarni> him
20:17:02  <Bjarni> let him rot
20:21:13  <Mortomes> In hell?
20:21:33  <Bjarni> or whereever we can banish him to
20:24:06  <peter1138> you can't really banish the devil in hell
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20:51:12  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r9133 /branches/newhouses/ (125 files in 12 dirs): [newhouses] -Sync with trunk r9055:9132
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21:27:06  <Bjarni> <-- LOL
21:28:14  <Tefad> heee
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21:32:55  * Smoovious chuckles.
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22:03:13  <Smoovious>
22:03:23  <Tefad>
22:05:11  <dihedral> thats a good one
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22:07:51  <Eddi|zuHause3> what's funny about that picture?
22:08:13  <Tefad> at least in the US, pig is a derogatory term for cop
22:08:45  <Sionide> they're english cops though :/
22:09:06  <Tefad> and, as you can see, one of them appears to be at a smaller scale than the other
22:09:11  <Eddi|zuHause3> ah... so it's like "Bulle" in german
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22:14:07  <Smoovious>
22:14:09  <Wolf01> night
22:14:14  *** Wolf01 [] has quit []
22:14:27  <Mortomes> Too true.
22:14:36  <Smoovious> wave
22:17:04  *** Sacro|Laptop [Ben@adsl-83-100-157-87.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
22:17:22  <Smoovious> <--- rofl
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22:36:05  <Bjarni> 	<Smoovious> <--- rofl <--- in some countries (like USA) it's illegal for teachers to fuck their students even if they are old enough
22:36:29  <Bjarni> and I actually don't think this one is funny
22:36:48  <Eddi|zuHause3> it is illegal in germany
22:37:02  <Bjarni> it should be :)
22:37:12  <Bjarni> everywhere
22:37:36  <Digitalfox> But you sometimes have so hot woman teachers...
22:37:54  <Smoovious> its illegal here too...
22:37:55  <Bjarni> so?
22:38:18  <Digitalfox> So if i'm more thgan 18, and we have sex outside school what's the problem ??
22:38:22  <Digitalfox> than
22:38:29  <Smoovious> but it gets to a point where I start thinking people are getting too uptight about too much stuff
22:38:57  <Smoovious> btw... <--- USA
22:39:01  <Bjarni> <Digitalfox>	So if i'm more thgan 18, and we have sex outside school what's the problem ?? <-- fuck the teacher and get a better grade or don't and fail
22:39:23  <Bjarni> hehe
22:39:38  <Smoovious>
22:39:59  <Smoovious> well, if you don't think that was funny, then I guess I shouldn't recommend to you then
22:40:06  <Bjarni> 	<Bjarni> ... in some countries (like USA) it's illegal for teachers to fuck their students
22:40:06  <Bjarni> 	<Smoovious>	its illegal here too...
22:40:06  <Bjarni> <Smoovious>	btw... <--- USA
22:40:36  <Smoovious> <Smoovious> but it gets to a point where I start thinking people are getting too uptight about too much stuff
22:40:41  <Smoovious> don't forget that line too
22:42:22  <Bjarni> if you start to ease up, then you will get problems with people taking it too far
22:43:32  <ln-> what other kind of relations should be declared no-sex, besides adult teacher and adult student?
22:43:52  <Smoovious> the tighter you grip, the more it'll slip through your fingers
22:44:13  <Patrick> why do scottish people have blue penii?
22:44:21  <Patrick> because they're all tight-fisted wankers
22:44:28  <Smoovious> they have more than one penis?
22:44:29  <Bjarni> ...
22:45:09  <Digitalfox> Someday people, just by being two minutes late to go to work, will have cops at home door giving you a ticket.. So mutch for liberty and democracy..
22:45:20  * Smoovious nods.
22:45:24  *** Mucht is now known as Mucht|zZz
22:45:54  <Bjarni> 	<Smoovious>	the tighter you grip, the more it'll slip through your fingers <-- actually are you sure it's not like the "learn to drink modest at home" things and then the people, who does that ends up drinking way more than other people
22:46:04  <Smoovious> we're supposed to be so free, we celebrate it often... yet, we have more people in prison, jail, on parole, or on probation, per capita, than any other nation on the planet... so... how free is that?
22:46:22  * Smoovious rolls his eyes.
22:46:27  <peter1138> that's not free
22:46:34  <peter1138> that's criminal
22:46:49  <Bjarni> <Smoovious>	we're supposed to be so free, we celebrate it often... yet, we have more people in prison, jail, on parole, or on probation, per capita, than any other nation on the planet... so... how free is that? <--- that's freedom to protect the citizens against hostile people
22:46:51  <Smoovious> in any society, you're always going to have people who take things too far... but that is no reason, for making it illegal for everyone else, who don't...
22:47:02  <Smoovious> I am the citizens...
22:47:15  <Bjarni> you shouldn't talk about freedom of criminals
22:47:22  <Smoovious> criminals are also citizens
22:47:26  <Bjarni> because if you do, you will end up with serious problems
22:47:32  <Smoovious> and in this country, you're damned right I should talk about it
22:47:34  <MeusH> one's fist is limited only by other's nose
22:47:37  <Smoovious> we already GOT serious problems
22:47:40  <MeusH> and this is what I think
22:47:44  <Bjarni> <Smoovious>	criminals are also citizens <-- that's a flawed theory :s
22:47:46  <Smoovious> and they're only getting worse
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22:47:51  <Smoovious> it isn't a theory
22:47:51  <MeusH> that I can do whatever I want provided I don't hurt anyone
22:48:04  <Smoovious> it is a fact... just because their criminals, doesn't mean they aren't citizens anymore
22:48:15  <Smoovious> their=they're
22:48:21  <MeusH> and I'm with capital penatly
22:48:39  <MeusH> why should citizens pay higher taxes just to have criminals in luxury prisons?
22:48:42  <Smoovious> I don't believe in murder... I don't care who or what is doing it
22:48:46  <Smoovious> luxury?
22:48:50  <Smoovious> you're kidding, right?
22:49:01  <MeusH> yeah, TV, separate shower and loo
22:49:06  <MeusH> no I'm not kidding
22:49:14  <Patrick> Smoovious: if you don't believe in murder, what do you propose we do to murderers?
22:49:17  <Patrick> kill them?
22:49:18  <Patrick> you sick bastard
22:49:19  <Smoovious> those are priveledges, they earn
22:49:31  <MeusH> prisons should be damn murky so that noone wants to go there
22:49:49  <MeusH> in Poland it's better to live in prison than be without a job
22:50:08  <MeusH> you get free sleeping place, free food, free psyhologist
22:50:12  <MeusH> and all that stuff
22:50:51  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9134 /branches/newhouses/src/autoreplace_cmd.cpp: [newhouses] -Fix (r9133): one file went missing during the sync.
22:50:52  <Smoovious> Patrick... lock em up... for life... put them to hard work... they initially take a life, they forfeit theirs... the state owns them now, and they work to maintain the infastructure... think of them as slaves at that point I don't care...
22:51:25  <Sionide> Tefad, you know that picture.... the "little pig" is actually sitting down, so probably roughly the same height as his colleague when they're standing
22:51:27  <Sionide> :/
22:51:29  <Sionide> silly pic
22:51:38  <Smoovious> but you can't make a dead person suffer for what they did
22:51:51  <Smoovious> execution is an escape
22:51:56  <MeusH> Smoovius, do you pay taxes? or not yet?
22:51:58  <Tefad> Sionide: it is still funnayz
22:52:01  <Sionide> pfft
22:52:09  <Smoovious> I've been paying taxes for years
22:52:32  <Sionide> Smoovious, do you know how much of your tax money goes on keeping people in prison for life?
22:52:53  <MeusH> then I don't really understand you. You pay taxes and some of your money is paid to keep a murderer or raper alive
22:52:57  <MeusH> in prison
22:53:08  <MeusH> with food, psyhologist, tv, toilette
22:53:13  <Bjarni> Smoovious: <-- this is what happens when you start to talk about freedom for criminals and let them do what they want... they find new ways to make life sucks for other people
22:53:16  <Smoovious> that's all it comes down to for you? money? wow... money doesn't come into it for me... my concience(sp?) comes before money
22:53:17  <MeusH> just think about $$
22:53:22  <Sionide> Smoovious, they get quite a cushty life in there... as MeusH says, tv, gym, three hot meals etc.
22:53:34  <MeusH> I'm with death sentence to murderers
22:53:39  <Smoovious> taking someone's life is wrong, period... doesn't matter how much money I save as a result of it... wrong, is wrong, is wrong...
22:54:06  <Sionide> life never means life anyways
22:54:11  <MeusH> some time ago a terrorist was released from prison
22:54:15  <MeusH> his group killed many people
22:54:27  <MeusH> he was sentenced to 3000 years in prison
22:54:30  <MeusH> sick idea btw.
22:54:31  <Smoovious> Sionide... then that's a different problem... if life doesn't mean life, then we should make sure it means life
22:54:38  <MeusH> and he was free after 13 years
22:54:43  <MeusH> for "good behaviour"
22:54:48  <MeusH> he should have been killed
22:54:58  <Sionide> Smoovious, you *can't* make it mean life though, because it costs too much money!
22:55:04  <Smoovious> yes you can
22:55:12  <Sionide> where you gonna get the money from?
22:55:14  <MeusH> and imagine dumb citizens paying taxes just to have some sick dude fed and taken care of
22:55:20  <Sionide> schools? NHS?
22:55:27  <Smoovious> if you wanted to you could... but people don't give a damn about doing what's right, or not doing what's wrong anymore... all they care about is MONEY...
22:55:48  <Smoovious> Sionide... same place we get money for everything else... we print it...
22:55:58  <Sionide> heh
22:56:01  <Sionide> doesn't work like that
22:56:13  <Smoovious> its not like our money stands for anything... our money hasn't been linked to precious metals for years
22:56:14  <Sionide> the government doesn't just print money to get more of it
22:56:21  <Smoovious> oh yes they do
22:56:25  <Sionide> haha
22:56:39  <Sionide> where are you from?
22:56:45  <Smoovious> Michigan, USA
22:56:50  <MeusH> Smoovious, think of a dentist
22:56:57  <Smoovious> I'd rather not
22:56:57  <Eddi|zuHause3> they tried that in germany in the 1920's
22:57:01  <MeusH> a murdered in prison goes to dentist
22:57:08  <Sionide> Smoovious, yeah.. inflation..
22:57:09  <MeusH> kills dentists and runs away
22:57:12  <Sionide> Eddi|zuHause3, i was just getting to that!
22:57:15  <MeusH> why not to kill the criminal before?
22:57:16  <Smoovious> Sionide... exactly
22:57:16  <Born_Acorn> The governments should just shoot the prisoners and not tell anyone. That way nobody can complain!
22:57:19  <Born_Acorn> Mwahahahaha!
22:57:30  <MeusH> good point Born_Acorn
22:57:32  <MeusH> seriously
22:57:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> they ended up with 1$ being worth like 4 000 000 000 000 RM
22:57:35  * Bjarni supports Born_Acorn
22:57:42  <Sionide> Smoovious, exactly what?! that's my point.. you can't just print however much money you like because it becomes worth less
22:57:46  <Bjarni> well, the problem makers anyway
22:57:48  <Smoovious> MeusH... because murder is wrong... just because the target killed someone else, doesn't make it ok for me to kill him
22:57:52  * Sionide doesn't even know why he's arguing
22:58:01  <MeusH> Eddi|zuHause3, yeah, I remeber a photo of women burning money because it burned better than equivalent amount of wood :D
22:58:07  <Eddi|zuHause3> (and that was where they capped the official exchange, on the black market it rised even more)
22:58:12  <Smoovious> <Sionide> Smoovious, yeah.. inflation.. <--- that
22:58:21  <MeusH> so imagine your mom being fucking raped and murdered
22:58:26  <MeusH> and what are you gonna say?
22:58:31  <MeusH> let him go to prison?
22:58:37  <Smoovious> but, our gov't DOES print however much money they want... and it IS becoming more and more worthless...
22:58:42  <MeusH> he would be set free after 13 years for good behaviour anyway
22:58:47  <Bjarni> <Smoovious>	MeusH... because murder is wrong... just because the target killed someone else, doesn't make it ok for me to kill him <--- who fucked up your head??? if somebody kills and wants to kill again, then the logical step would be to make sure that they will not kill again and there is one permanent solution
22:58:48  <MeusH> and you'd pay for his food
22:58:53  <Born_Acorn> I can get two Dollars for a Pound!
22:58:54  <Born_Acorn> Woo!
22:58:55  <Bjarni>  if needed
22:59:16  <Eddi|zuHause3> MeusH: it was even funnier, there were people stealing money-trucks, they left the money there, because the truck was worth more
22:59:25  <Bjarni> 	<Born_Acorn>	I can get two Dollars for a Pound! <-- big deal. You used to be able to get 3
22:59:32  <Born_Acorn> yes. :(
22:59:41  <Smoovious> MeusH... I would say lock him up... I'm not going to pile on a wrong, with a wrong of my own... wrong is wrong. and that's just the way it is... and no matter how much money comes into play, it doesn't change the fact that it is still wrong...
22:59:46  <MeusH> haha Eddi|zuHause3 :)
23:00:06  <Smoovious> and nothing is wrong with my head...
23:00:36  <MeusH> Smoovious, so another party comes to goverment and says "amnestion! we make these poor people free! liberation!"
23:00:49  <MeusH> and that criminal is free
23:01:03  <MeusH> he wouldn't be free (and wouldn't kill next people) if he was dead
23:01:06  <Bjarni> 	<Eddi|zuHause3>	MeusH: it was even funnier, there were people stealing money-trucks, they left the money there, because the truck was worth more <-- reminds me of a picture that I once saw. It was in Germany (192x-193x) and some children used money as building blocks... it was cheaper than actually buying building blocks
23:01:13  <Born_Acorn> We should kill everyone, and then ourselves! Boom! No more crime! (me wonders if this is how murdering starts in the first place)
23:01:18  <Smoovious> hell... I bet a majority of you are religious types to begin with... how can you guys advocate, and even promote, killing another person, when according to your religions, that is forbidden, and wrong... when I, who aren't religious, have a stronger sense of what's right and what's wrong, than you guys seem to have?
23:01:24  <Smoovious> come on, get real
23:01:43  <MeusH> Christianity isn't against capital penatly
23:01:44  <Smoovious> <MeusH> Smoovious, so another party comes to goverment and says "amnestion! we make these poor people free! liberation!" <--- don't be rediculous
23:01:54  <Born_Acorn> Dude.. this is the internet... Atheists fall from the sky.
23:01:55  <MeusH> Christanity doesn't say about it anything TBH
23:01:56  <Smoovious> MeusH... it IS against murder
23:01:59  <Bjarni> 	<Born_Acorn>	We should kill everyone, and then ourselves! Boom! No more crime! (me wonders if this is how murdering starts in the first place) <-- don't tell anybody, but nuclear weapons can do this if needed
23:02:09  <Bjarni> and speeds up the process
23:02:18  <Born_Acorn> Hmm. Good thinking"
23:02:23  <MeusH> it's socialistic politicians (soviet atheists) who tell you how to understand christian law
23:02:27  * Born_Acorn wonders if this is how terrorism starts
23:02:48  <MeusH> okay Smoovious, then think about a country
23:02:57  * Smoovious rolls his eyes.
23:02:59  <Bjarni> Born_Acorn: are you deeply religious?
23:03:16  <MeusH> a gang leader can sentence someone to death
23:03:16  <Born_Acorn> About as deep as a....reverse... puddle?
23:03:17  <Smoovious> dude... please... you're not going to convince me murder is ok
23:03:21  <MeusH> and pay some money to killer
23:03:36  <Bjarni> Born_Acorn: are you a communist?
23:03:46  <MeusH> why shouldn't the president, head of country, who owns nuclear missiles, sentece people to death?
23:03:46  <Born_Acorn> I must say I am not!
23:03:51  <Eddi|zuHause3> communist! burn him!
23:03:54  <Born_Acorn> Go money, woo!
23:03:58  <MeusH> if gangsters can kill, the law should kill, too
23:04:01  <Bjarni> Born_Acorn: then you aren't a terrorist wannabe
23:04:09  <Born_Acorn> Hooray!
23:04:22  <Born_Acorn> I can openly murder hundreds and not be a terrorist!
23:04:26  <Bjarni> no
23:04:27  <MeusH> Smoovious, so what do you think about that now?
23:04:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> that means he has potential for full terrorist ;)
23:04:30  <Smoovious> MeusH... that would presuppose that the gangsters were allowed to kill in the law... they aren't... so it is a rediculous suggestion
23:04:35  <Bjarni> because I used the work "wannabe"
23:04:37  <MeusH> no
23:04:42  <Smoovious> yup
23:04:43  <Born_Acorn> Aww, fiddlesticks.
23:04:43  <MeusH> this means that gangsters are OVER the law
23:04:45  <Bjarni> you can still turn into a real terrorist
23:04:50  <Smoovious> how do you figure that they are allowed to
23:05:01  <Smoovious> MeusH... they aren't... show me part of the law that puts them above it
23:05:11  * Born_Acorn throws down his flaming torch and map to Childrens Orphange
23:05:13  <MeusH> they have money and whole hood of "gangstas" with guns
23:05:24  <Bjarni> <MeusH>	this means that gangsters are OVER the law <--- they aren't. They ARE the law if they work right
23:05:33  <Bjarni> like paying police and judges
23:05:39  <MeusH> heh, Bjarni is even more correct
23:05:42  <MeusH> that's called mafia :p
23:05:44  <Bjarni> or "paying" as "we will not kill you"
23:05:47  <Smoovious> some would argue that they are the police and judges...
23:06:05  <MeusH> oh yeah Smoovious, what do you think about terrorism?
23:06:23  <MeusH> because I've got one more reason to convince you to death penatly
23:06:24  <Smoovious> I think it's fabulous! I think we should have more of it!
23:06:30  <Smoovious> come, on man, what do you think? get serious
23:06:31  <MeusH> seriously...
23:06:41  <MeusH> okay, so imagine:
23:06:48  <Bjarni> the difference between police and gangs in Rio is that the government funds the guns to the police.... that's about it
23:06:55  <MeusH> that fucker who killed your relative goes to prison
23:06:58  <Smoovious> you're not going to convince me of it, because no argument you can dream up, is going to change the fact, that murder, is wrong
23:07:03  <MeusH> he was a mobster and he still runs his gang
23:07:06  <Bjarni> they both shoot more or less random people on the streets if they like
23:07:13  <Born_Acorn> We should burn down some guns
23:07:16  <Smoovious> and the death penalty, is literally, premeditated murder... only difference is, it is the state that is doing it
23:07:17  <Born_Acorn> Who is with me!
23:07:21  <MeusH> he is sentenced to stay rest of his live in prison
23:07:45  <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, we should blow up all nuclear weapons!
23:07:50  <MeusH> his fellow mobsters take some innocent people and announce "if you won't release mr X, we will kill them"
23:07:53  <MeusH> that's terrorism
23:08:04  <MeusH> and either the murderer will be free (and kill someone else)
23:08:14  <MeusH> or innocent people would be shot dead
23:08:15  <Eddi|zuHause3> that'll teach 'em
23:08:30  * Smoovious shakes his head
23:08:33  <MeusH> anyway, more people would die if a murdered stayed alive
23:08:53  <Sionide> tis the worse of two evils really
23:09:06  <MeusH> you'd kill just one person, who doesn't even deserve a damn bullet. Bullets are too expensive
23:09:09  <Eddi|zuHause3> anyway, i have been about this 'death penalty' discussion a lot of times, and i am pretty certain i am against it
23:09:32  <Bjarni> when Mussolini visited Sicily we was greeted by a mafia boss like he was the mafia boss from Rome and Rome alone. Then he started fighting them to regain control of the island and some of them ran off to USA
23:09:35  <MeusH> but no, you won't kill him. it's bad to kill. It's cruel that he is more clever than you and commits a crime (kills) again
23:09:47  <Smoovious> brb... girlfriend on phone
23:09:50  <MeusH> okay
23:09:53  <Bjarni> and some of them are still in Southern Italy killing police, politicians and stuff
23:10:34  <Bjarni> so if Mussolini didn't try to regain control, would USA had had their mafia issue
23:10:35  <Bjarni> ?
23:10:53  *** glx [] has quit [Quit: bye]
23:12:34  *** XeryusTC [] has quit [Quit: Solong, and thanks for all the fish.]
23:12:48  <Eddi|zuHause3> sad, openttd only allows a factor of 5000 for money
23:14:10  <Sionide> aiglx/beryl++
23:15:45  *** TheMask96 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:15:50  <Eddi|zuHause3> btw, after the inflation fiasco in germany, it was decided that the currency should not be based on gold, but be treated as a 'loan' on the land, houses, etc. of all german people
23:15:51  *** MeusH_ [] has joined #openttd
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23:16:00  <MeusH_> hmm
23:16:04  <SpComb> Logs:
23:16:04  <MeusH_> !logs
23:16:10  *** sPooT [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:16:12  *** MeusH [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:18:06  *** TheMask96 [] has joined #openttd
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23:20:04  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
23:23:25  <Smoovious> ib
23:23:59  <Bjarni> is phonesex that quick?
23:24:19  <Smoovious> no, we don't do that on the phone... we got a channel for that
23:24:23  <Bjarni> then again how should I know... I never bothered to investigate such odd ideas
23:24:40  <Smoovious> although she has masturbated for me on our headsets before
23:24:50  <Bjarni> o_O
23:24:56  <Bjarni> IT WAS A JOKE
23:24:59  * Smoovious thinks about that uptight line of text he said earlier, again
23:25:17  <Smoovious> brb... girlfriend on phone again
23:26:02  * Bjarni notes not to joke about weird sexual activities on IRC again.... people actually does stuff like that
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23:34:21  <Sacro|Laptop> Smoovious: talk in #tycoon :)
23:34:40  <Bjarni> they want to hear about phonesex and stuff like that?
23:34:46  <Sacro|Laptop> phonesex ftw
23:34:47  <Bjarni> what a bunch of perverts :P
23:34:53  <Sacro|Laptop> though you have to watch out for the aerial
23:35:06  * Mortomes tosses some chees at mggrant.
23:35:12  <Mortomes> *cheese
23:35:35  * mggrant declares that terrorism!
23:35:47  * Mortomes surrenders.
23:36:06  <Bjarni> well I'm not surprised that Sacro would like phonesex.... he reacts to anything containing boobs or sex
23:36:15  <Bjarni> Sacro: (.)(.)
23:36:21  <Mortomes> Boobies!
23:36:27  <Tefad> heh.  .
23:36:33  <Bjarni> lol
23:36:33  <Sacro|Laptop> :D BREASTS
23:37:10  <Bjarni> 	<Mortomes>	Boobies! <-- I was about to write "see, Sacro always reacts like that"... but then "oh wait.... wrong guy"
23:37:19  * Mortomes grins.
23:37:22  <Smoovious> hey... I don't think of phonesex as being perverted one bit... after all... I've seen tubgirl... shit like that forces you to redefine your terms about what's perverted or not...
23:37:57  *** ammler [] has quit [Quit: Have a nice time!]
23:39:53  <Bjarni> because you find some perverted people, who decide that some perversions aren't perversions anymore?
23:39:56  <Bjarni> sounds odd
23:40:30  <Bjarni> so stealing a bike is ok because stealing a car is worse, so I decide to move the line of what is ok?
23:40:39  <Bjarni> I didn't know it worked like that :P
23:42:14  <Eddi|zuHause3> <Bjarni> <Mortomes>Boobies! <-- I was about to write "see, Sacro always reacts like that"... but then "oh wait.... wrong guy" <- i got confused there for a second as well ;)
23:42:23  * Smoovious chuckles.
23:42:29  * Mortomes is good.
23:42:32  <Smoovious> well, yeah, it works like that... where have you been?
23:43:12  <Bjarni> <Smoovious>	well, yeah, it works like that... where have you been? <-- at a place with sane people
23:43:22  <Bjarni> so I'm unaffected by crap theory
23:43:32  <Smoovious> sanity is over-rated... and is also a relative term...
23:44:03  <Bjarni> Mortomes: even though it appears that you would fit well with Sacro you should stay away from him. He already fucked one person, who ended up at a mental hospital
23:44:22  <Sacro|Laptop> :o she...
23:44:22  <Bjarni> "it seemed like a good idea at the time"
23:44:25  <Sacro|Laptop> did actually...
23:44:49  <Mortomes> Do I want to know?
23:44:53  <Bjarni> no
23:44:54  <Smoovious> hey, insane chicks can be pretty wild in bed
23:44:56  <Bjarni> NO!!!!
23:44:56  <Mortomes> Ok
23:45:02  <Mortomes> OK!!!!
23:48:41  <Bjarni> Mortomes: btw what patch are you working on?
23:49:12  <Mortomes> Errr.. none, I just play OpenTTD and figured I'd check out the IRC channel :)
23:49:37  <Bjarni> WHAT???
23:49:41  <Bjarni> you aren't coding?
23:49:52  <Mortomes> Perverted, I know.
23:49:52  <Smoovious> leecher!
23:50:03  <Sacro|Laptop> Smoovious: dunno bout bed, but she was pretty wild in the living room
23:50:40  <Smoovious> Sacro|Laptop... hey, man... doesn't even have to be a room. :) You should see some of the stuff that goes on at the campground
23:51:59  <Bjarni> you know, when trains drive after the last one, the drivers tend to see people on the slopes to the railroad doing... well you know
23:52:15  <Bjarni> mainly during the summer time
23:52:18  <Smoovious> yeah, I know. :D
23:52:39  <Smoovious> the median of a freeway is good too... the truckers like to blow their horns... they're the only ones who can see
23:53:24  <Bjarni> pervert
23:53:36  <Smoovious> damned right I am! and don't you forget it!
23:54:05  <Bjarni> for some reason I never noticed people doing it when I was driving at night
23:54:16  <Bjarni> s/was/has been
23:54:22  <Smoovious> who said anything about at night?
23:55:20  <Bjarni> for some reason people don't do it when there is a train every 10th minute each way
23:55:42  <Mortomes> Guess they're not all that perverted then :)
23:56:29  * Smoovious nods agreement wit Mortomes
23:57:05  <Smoovious> glass elevators are good too
23:57:20  <Bjarni> ...
23:57:33  * Bjarni notes that he should ALWAYS use the stairs
23:57:35  <Bjarni> hmm
23:57:48  <Bjarni> wouldn't make a difference
23:57:55  <Smoovious> go down through the lobby, just so a few people see you, and when you get to the lower floor, take off and run like hell so you don't get caught by security
23:58:01  <Mortomes> Or stairwells.
23:58:06  <Smoovious> stairwells aren't immune
23:58:09  <Bjarni> elevators is an invention for fat people to grow ever more fat :P
23:58:26  <Smoovious> they're also great for jumping in the air when it starts down
23:58:50  * Bjarni sighs
23:58:50  <Smoovious> a good fast elevator will give you a nice bit of hang-time
23:59:13  <Bjarni> what's wrong with your own bed?
23:59:25  <Mortomes> Not as much hang time obviously.
23:59:31  * Smoovious nods.
23:59:40  <Bjarni> hang time?
23:59:46  <Bjarni> wtf is hang time?
23:59:47  <Smoovious> plus I use it for sleeping mainly
23:59:48  <Bjarni> wait
23:59:52  <Mortomes> Time spent in the air.
23:59:55  <Bjarni> maybe I don't want to know :p

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