Log for #openttd on 12th April 2007:
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05:42:45  <MeusH> hi
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06:16:50  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9602 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r5833): Building rail on steep slopes ignored build_on_slopes patch setting.
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06:51:59  <Vikthor> ?au
06:52:09  <Vikthor> errm Hi!
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08:52:29  <TrueBrain> morning all
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09:04:33  <Zuu> TrueBrain: Morning :)
09:05:16  <TrueBrain> pfew, at least one person who is awake :)
09:05:42  <Zuu> Just waked half an hour ago :p
09:05:53  <TrueBrain> me 2, so? :)
09:06:11  <Zuu> It's pretty late, 10:30 here..
09:06:19  <TrueBrain> so? :)
09:07:18  <peter1138> waked D:
09:07:40  <TrueBrain> peter1138: stfu :p
09:07:48  <Zuu> peter1138: Yea how would you spell it?
09:07:54  <TrueBrain> !spell waked
09:07:56  <_42_> TrueBrain: 'waked' is correctly spelled
09:08:02  <TrueBrain> :o:o
09:08:08  <TrueBrain> !whatis waked
09:08:11  <Zuu> GAIM didn't complain about it.. :)
09:08:16  <peter1138> woke
09:08:20  <TrueBrain> doesn't mean it has the same meaning Zuu :)
09:08:38  <TrueBrain> [11:08] <TrueBrain> !whatis waked
09:08:38  <TrueBrain> [11:08] <_42_> TrueBrain: Sorry, but 'waked' is unknown to me. Check spelling!
09:08:41  <TrueBrain> hehe :)
09:09:00  <Zuu> peter1138: Thanks
09:09:06  <TrueBrain> [11:08] <TrueBrain> !whatis woke 5
09:09:06  <TrueBrain> [11:08] <_42_> TrueBrain: [5 of 9] be awake, be alert, be there [ant: {sleep}]
09:09:10  <TrueBrain> :)
09:09:30  <peter1138> english verbs :D
09:10:15  <TrueBrain> I sometimes still have that when I say 'wake' or 'woke', that I have to say the 3 forms... ANNOYING ENGLISH CLASSES
09:10:51  <peter1138> also: "My apologizes", hehe
09:10:55  <peter1138> -z :p
09:11:03  <TrueBrain> Firefox tells me that is how it is spelled :(
09:11:07  <TrueBrain> !spell apologizes
09:11:10  <_42_> TrueBrain: 'apologizes' is correctly spelled
09:11:32  <peter1138> yes, it is, but it's not the word you want
09:11:49  <TrueBrain> I had it without 'z' and it failed to give me an okay on it
09:11:53  <TrueBrain> I HATE ENGLISH! :)
09:12:18  * Zuu too, it lacks important wording for my Junctioneer-project. :)
09:12:26  <Zuu> /my/his/
09:12:42  <TrueBrain> We should all learn Dutch!
09:12:44  <TrueBrain> MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
09:13:12  <peter1138> o_O
09:13:33  <TrueBrain> you don't agree or something? :p
09:14:48  <Zuu> TrueBrain: Why not something more exotic like lojban ( they claim to have ~10 people that can speek it in the world. :)
09:15:47  <Zuu> And perhaps some more 50-100 who practice it.
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09:18:44  <dihedral> You around Belugas
09:19:06  <TrueBrain> Zuu: nah!
09:19:21  <dihedral> hello TrueBrain
09:19:24  <peter1138> now don't get me started on punctuation...
09:19:47  <TrueBrain> peter1138: which you lack of in a very consistent way? :)
09:20:25  <dihedral> i need to know if that letter for atari is ready to be sent now...
09:20:52  <peter1138> i consistently leave off the last full-stop, yeah
09:21:16  <TrueBrain> dihedral: you should ask Belugas; he will be around in a few hours I guess :)
09:21:34  <peter1138> i'm wonder who dihedral wants to be around Belugas
09:21:37  <peter1138> +ing
09:21:52  <peter1138> YOU! around Belugas!
09:22:06  <peter1138> whoops, i started o_O
09:22:11  <dihedral> i'm lost on that one... peter1138
09:22:15  <TrueBrain> and you are starting to talk gibberish
09:22:46  <peter1138> the ambiguity of missing punctuation
09:23:09  <peter1138> you around belugas could be "you! around belugas!" or maybe "you around, belugas?", but who knows
09:23:14  <peter1138> BUT WHO KNOWS?
09:23:31  <TrueBrain> okay, if you read it like that, it is pretty funny indeed :)
09:23:38  <TrueBrain> Are you around Belugas? :p
09:23:45  <TrueBrain> haha
09:23:58  <TrueBrain> Like he is some huge fatass person
09:24:16  <TrueBrain> haha, okay, I shouldn't try to picture this :)
09:24:34  <TrueBrain> anyway, peter1138, take your medicine :)
09:24:37  <dihedral> :-P
09:24:45  <dihedral> now that was mean
09:24:53  <TrueBrain> dihedral: no, he is on a spree
09:24:57  <dihedral> have some sypathy with peter1138
09:25:14  <dihedral> not just missing punctuation here
09:25:20  <dihedral> m
09:25:48  <boekabart_> I think this channel has gone offtopic this morning.CET ;)
09:25:54  <TrueBrain> offtopic?
09:25:58  <TrueBrain> Depends on what you consider ontopic
09:26:09  <dihedral> true
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09:26:31  <TrueBrain> how I see it: peter1138 is a developer, which is ontopic, and we are talking about what he is talking about
09:26:34  <TrueBrain> so that in fact is ontopic
09:26:50  <dihedral> hmmm
09:27:07  <dihedral> TrueBrain: are you sure peter1138 is the only one in need of medicine?
09:27:17  <TrueBrain> :) We all need our shots
09:27:21  <maad> :)
09:27:59  <dihedral> you nick just blends in perfectly there maad
09:28:12  <TrueBrain> and I like his contribution
09:28:14  <maad> it's not "mad"!
09:28:15  <DorpsGek> bark bark bark woef woef grrrrr
09:28:26  <TrueBrain> you name is mad, maad
09:28:33  <dihedral> now THAT is offtopic
09:28:48  <dihedral> for DorpsGek  that is
09:28:53  <Zuu> dihedral: Isn't TrueBrain also a developer?
09:28:59  <maad> in fact, it should be "maade" but sounds silly....
09:29:01  <TrueBrain> Zuu: am I?
09:29:21  <boekabart_> Free upgrade :)
09:29:21  <Zuu> Though so, don't you got dev-status on forums?
09:29:22  <dihedral> isn't everybody in a way...
09:29:32  <maad> dihedral: true
09:29:39  <TrueBrain> Zuu: possible... I have a lot of statuses :p
09:29:41  <boekabart_> even Sergej is a developer (of chaos and mayhem)!
09:29:55  <dihedral> lol
09:30:27  <boekabart_> please no-one ever tell him about IRC ;)
09:31:06  <Zuu> boekabart_: Convince peter1138 that there should not be a IRC-link on the new Main Page then :)
09:31:34  <dihedral> peter1138: there should not be a IRC-link on the new Main Page...
09:31:37  <dihedral> i tried
09:31:45  <TrueBrain> why shouldn't there be?
09:31:52  <dihedral> ask Zuu
09:32:19  <dihedral> have a quick question about dedicated servers
09:32:33  <TrueBrain> okay, very quick then
09:32:37  <dihedral> sorry for being slightly offtopic
09:32:37  <Zuu> boekabart_ didn't want to have Sergej on IRC, but perhaps he is to lazy to check the wiki anyway :)
09:33:01  <dihedral> dedicated servers report to - right?
09:33:11  <TrueBrain> dihedral: yes
09:33:19  <boekabart_> trye
09:33:22  <boekabart_> true
09:33:30  <dihedral> would it be possible to ad a custom server to report to?
09:33:36  <TrueBrain> dihedral: why?
09:33:54  <dihedral> so that admins can have those stats on their own website?
09:34:21  <TrueBrain> admins can query the server of their likings
09:34:34  <TrueBrain> Anyway, for LAN events it is possible, by a simple modification
09:34:48  <TrueBrain> for other situations, it mostly is more useful to query the server yourself (as you most likely know the address)
09:34:56  <TrueBrain> and soon it is possible to query the masterserver via XMLRPC
09:35:06  <dihedral> ah... that sounds sweet
09:35:23  * Zuu only get half of the letters of XMLRPC :)
09:35:31  <Zuu> But it sounds fancy :p
09:35:50  <TrueBrain>
09:37:12  <dihedral> that was a conversation killer TrueBrain
09:37:14  <peter1138> irc link? what?
09:37:33  <TrueBrain> dihedral: it happens
09:40:42  <boekabart_> uau!
09:44:00  <peter1138> oh
09:44:15  <peter1138> Zuu, do you think he'd understand the wiki?
09:44:39  <Zuu> peter1138: Would he even try?
09:45:24  <Zuu> More seriously, is the channel a place for developers or a place for players?
09:45:42  <Zuu> Perhaps the IRC-link should be more on the dev-side of the Main Page?
09:46:11  <maad> for developers i think
09:46:14  <boekabart_> there is another channel where only devs come i think
09:46:24  <Zuu> I was just lazy and added it where it was easy to add :D
09:46:29  <boekabart_> peter1138 sent me there once i vaguely recall
09:46:31  <peter1138> the supersekritdev channel
09:46:41  <maad> just look at the topic
09:47:09  <dihedral> is just status and info sent to the masterserver?
09:47:44  <dihedral> or is the output from the command players transfered too?
09:47:58  <boekabart_> but i still don't know what the 3 letters in the other channel name suffix stand for. peter1138?
09:48:52  <maad> .42?
09:49:39  <peter1138> who knows
09:50:48  <peter1138> dihedral: most of the info is pulled by the masterserver
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09:52:15  <dihedral> how is that information pulled? is there a way i could write a php script that would then execute rcon commands for me?
09:52:50  <peter1138> well it's not via rcon
09:53:01  <dihedral> obviously
09:54:17  <dihedral> but is there a way i could 'pull' info with php scripts?
09:54:24  <Zuu> peter1138: Please check I've got the wording right about the dev-comunity places:   :D
09:54:40  <Rubidium> dihedral: yes
09:54:43  <Zuu> Could be a 'to' that should be an 'in' ...
09:55:07  <dihedral> Rubidium: does that require autopilot?
09:55:11  <Rubidium> dihedral: no
09:55:34  <dihedral> is there a place i can read up on how?
09:55:51  <Rubidium> svn:// I believe
09:56:49  <Rubidium> *includes
09:57:33  <Rubidium> or svn://
09:58:01  <peter1138> Zuu: where?
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10:03:27  <Zuu> peter1138: Last sentence under Development.
10:03:37  <Zuu>
10:04:08  <Zuu> Or use history! :  :)
10:05:08  <dihedral> Rubidium: all the file shows is a mysql connection, defining constantds, and populating an array...
10:05:17  <Zuu> Hmm.. [[IRC channel|IRC channel]] should obviously be plain [[IRC channel]] ;)
10:05:53  <Rubidium> dihedral: I said _and_ gave you a specific revision number...
10:06:07  <dihedral> sorry
10:06:21  <dihedral> my bad...
10:08:53  <peter1138> Zuu: i meant where on the page, heh
10:09:00  <peter1138> Zuu: but i guess that means i didn't see anything obvious...
10:11:02  <dihedral> sweeeeet
10:11:05  <dihedral> thanks Rubidium
10:11:12  <dihedral> that looks great
10:12:16  <Rubidium> It won't be update when the network protocol gets updates though
10:15:57  <dihedral> hmmm.... shame
10:16:02  <dihedral> that thing is really good
10:19:56  <Rubidium> no, it is a maintainance nightmare... 3 different places where the same functionality is coded in yet another language. Now there is only one version that is used everywhere, which is for (hopefully) obvious reasons much easier)
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10:22:53  * SpComb blames OFTC
10:23:01  <peter1138> b-lame
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10:23:56  <peter1138> only if you want to go mad
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10:37:46  <SpComb> it's relevant to my interests
10:38:22  <TrueBrain> so?
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10:39:14  <Zuu> peter1138: I think I told where on the page aka under development.. but if you didn't see anything then it's probably okay. :)
10:39:54  <Zuu> Is the orange OpenTTD-logo available as SVG under a lisence that permit me to use it in other creations?
10:40:16  <Zuu> I'm trying to make a Manual-book :)
10:40:27  <blathijs> I would expect the logo to be available under GPL
10:40:46  <TrueBrain> I expect the same, GPL
10:42:16  <SpComb> not that the code is particularly easy to digest
10:42:30  <Zuu> I found it under media/ in the source-tree so forget my question about where to find it.
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10:47:04  <dihedral> well - how about another command line client (in c) that will be able to send rcon commands or fetch data?
10:47:15  <dihedral> then in php that would be a simple system() call
10:47:33  <dihedral> or am i thinking too much linux like?
10:47:44  <TrueBrain> dihedral: how about you keeping the php-script up-to-date for us?
10:47:59  <dihedral> to be honest i would love to
10:48:15  <TrueBrain> that was easy :)
10:48:26  <dihedral> but while i am being honest
10:48:30  <dihedral> let me continue
10:48:37  <TrueBrain> oh, there is more? :p
10:48:49  <dihedral> i need to understand the network side of ottd a lot more,
10:49:01  <dihedral> but other than that - i would love to at least give it a try
10:49:02  <TrueBrain> you only need to understand a very small subset
10:49:12  <TrueBrain> and that is the UDP communication of the QUERY
10:49:29  <dihedral> thankfully
10:49:42  <TrueBrain> the current php needs to be rewritten
10:49:48  <TrueBrain> as the design isn't that good
10:50:02  <dihedral> i shall do my best
10:50:03  <TrueBrain> but if you feel like it, feel free to make such a php, or in what language you feel fit
10:50:14  <TrueBrain> and I promise you I will try to get it somewhere in SVN for others to use :)
10:50:16  <dihedral> php will be fine
10:50:20  <TrueBrain> (can't promise anything of course :p)
10:50:26  <TrueBrain> if you have any questions, feel free to ask
10:50:28  <dihedral> np
10:50:38  <dihedral> as i have in the past few months
10:50:42  <dihedral> i enjoy asking
10:51:07  <TrueBrain> people just want to do: $openttd = new OpenTTDServer("IP", "port"); var_dump($openttd->GetData());
10:51:16  <TrueBrain> and see tons of data, about the year, companies, players, ...
10:51:36  <TrueBrain> maybe with some seperation, but okay, I am sure you have enough ideas ;)
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10:52:23  <TrueBrain> welcome Vikthor
10:52:29  <dihedral> i was thinking along those lines
10:53:13  <dihedral> thou i currently dont know how exactly i can fetch the players information (which integer that is...)
10:53:26  <dihedral> in a few days i shall probably have found out :-P
10:53:47  <TrueBrain> the C++ file is pretty clear about such things
10:53:54  <Ailure> hehe'
10:54:15  <Ailure> I managed to lobby someone in another project to use Squirrel as scripting language :)
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10:54:33  <TrueBrain> SQ is pretty nice, you just need to fix some things in their code :p
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10:54:37  <dihedral> i guess i am looking for an enum where SERVER_RESPONSE is at second place
10:55:12  <TrueBrain> src/network/network_udp.cpp
10:55:15  <TrueBrain> line 57
10:55:18  <TrueBrain> should be all you need
10:55:19  <dihedral> sweet
10:55:25  <dihedral> you really are a TrueBrain
10:56:18  <TrueBrain> and from line 254 it tells you what to send
10:56:22  <TrueBrain> (first was what to expect back :))
10:56:35  <TrueBrain> the networking code is a really simple system :)
10:57:03  <dihedral> great
10:57:04  <dihedral> thank you
10:57:09  <TrueBrain> euh, the first was what to send, the second what to expect back :)
10:57:11  <TrueBrain> hehe :)
10:57:15  <TrueBrain> good luck!
10:57:21  <dihedral> cheers
10:59:42  <dihedral> what is src/network/core/udp.h
10:59:50  <Ailure>,%2014th%20Feb%201944.png
10:59:55  <Ailure> Imagine if people had to do that IRL
11:00:14  <Ailure> building severeal bridges next to each other as only one train can be on a bridge at a time :)
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11:01:21  <dihedral> sorry - that was not suppoed to be a 'what is' but a 'what is with'
11:01:27  <dihedral> so let me put that out again
11:01:36  <dihedral> what is with src/network/core/udp.h
11:04:16  <TrueBrain> some indepth description of a single package. Possible outdated (comments tend to get outdated soon), and maybe Rubidium knows why it is there in the first place :)
11:04:40  <TrueBrain> ah, yes, to give a fast overivew which GAME_INFO_VERSION sends which reply :)
11:08:19  <dihedral> great... thanks
11:08:30  <dihedral> Belugas: are you around?
11:08:39  <dihedral> peter1138: that is better is it not?
11:09:16  <peter1138> hmm?
11:09:22  <peter1138> oh :P
11:09:37  <boekabart_> Ailure: image 2 trains behind each other on one bridge in real life
11:10:08  <boekabart_> or even close enough behind each other to BE on 1 bridge together in real life
11:10:47  <boekabart_> The rail networks in ottd behave more like (car) freeways anyway, not like railways.
11:13:38  <Zuu> And you need to learn the common pitfalls of SQ.
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11:13:51  <Zuu> sorry (backlog)
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11:19:47  <dihedral> anyway - i need to head out
11:20:24  <dihedral> have a nice day
11:20:27  <dihedral> all of you
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11:37:27  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truelight * r9603 /branches/noai/ (8 files in 5 dirs):
11:37:27  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: added AIList(), a simple list in which you can add item/value pairs. You can sort them, walk them, and valuate them
11:37:27  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Add: added regression for AIList()
11:37:27  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Note: valuator is untested (and unfinished)
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11:43:55  <ajmiles> hey, wonder if someone could give me a quick hand in understand something in the way openttd works
11:44:05  <ajmiles> *understanding
11:44:49  <ajmiles> i'm trying to work out the average speed a vehicle attains between two stations, i can calculate this in terms of "tiles travelled per day", how do I begin to convert this into sane units like the user's choice of mph / km/h / m/s
11:46:08  <ajmiles> it seems that a vehicle's speed is measured in some abitrary unit that equals 0.5km/h
11:48:08  <peter1138> depends on the vehicle
11:48:40  <ajmiles> for now i'm just worrying about road vehicles, but yes, they do have different multipliers
11:49:09  <ajmiles> SetDParam(1, v->cur_speed * 10 / 32); - is one line that caught my eye in the road vehicle viewwindow code
11:49:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> in the nightlies, that sould be cleaned up
11:49:35  <ajmiles> i checked out the svn source a couple of hours ago
11:49:37  <peter1138> well, there is the issue of tile scale, heh
11:50:19  <ajmiles> 10 and 32 appear to be the magic numbers for all vehicles, but i don't know what they do
11:50:41  <ajmiles> actually, trains seem to be * 10 / 16
11:50:55  <ajmiles> as do planes
11:51:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> 10/16 = 1/1.6 could be a km/h -> mph factor
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11:51:43  <ajmiles> thats true
11:53:39  <ajmiles> curious, this plane has a v->cur_speed of 477, but the gui shows 479
11:55:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> i did not particularly follow this, but there was some back and forth with "convert to mph in GUI code"
11:56:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> you could check the SVN log for that
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11:57:09  <peter1138> heh, the game units are "fun"
11:57:36  <ajmiles> tortoisesvn appears to not show any logs back beyond march 21
11:57:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> you can change that date
11:58:07  <ajmiles> the days before that aren't available
11:58:38  <ajmiles> ah perhaps it was showing 100, just a sec
11:58:52  <ajmiles> it's downloading something fairly hefty, we'll see what we get
12:00:02  <ajmiles> there are some other really hacky ways i could work out the average speed, but i'd rather not resort to it
12:00:32  <peter1138> is the game speed unit relevant?
12:00:34  <ajmiles> (like, adding the current speed to a counter every tick, then dividing by the number of ticks between station visits, but that just makes me cry)
12:00:37  <peter1138> you just want distance and time...
12:00:49  <ajmiles> well i have that
12:00:59  <ajmiles> this bus is doing 12 tiles in 10 days
12:01:09  <ajmiles> but that does really mean anything until you have it in mph or km/h
12:01:14  <ajmiles> *doesn't
12:03:07  <ajmiles> peter1138, looks like you or celestar made some speed related changes on the 2nd march
12:03:21  <ajmiles> "-Feature/Codechange: Changed the internal unit for aircraft velocities to from 8mph to 1km/h (peter1138), also give aircraft realsitic velocities (so that 1km/h is 1km/h independent of vehicle type) (peter1138)"
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12:07:11  <peter1138> and?
12:07:28  <ajmiles> it's all just a little tricky to understand what's going on here
12:09:21  <Ailure> [13:09] <boekabart_> The rail networks in ottd behave more like (car) freeways anyway, not like railways.
12:09:24  <Ailure> heh
12:09:36  <Ailure> first thingh I thought on when i jumped from TT to TTD
12:09:47  <Ailure> "Hey thoose railway networks looks like highways"
12:09:58  <boekabart_> long time ago, how was TT different?
12:10:10  <Ailure> well
12:10:15  <Ailure> when it comes to networking
12:10:18  <Ailure> there's only one type of signal
12:10:54  <boekabart_> there was only the 2-way? not the 1 way
12:11:01  <Ailure> yeah
12:11:06  <boekabart_> right, then you don't get the cloverleafs and so.
12:11:13  <Ailure> otherwise it's kinda similar in alot of ways
12:11:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> oh yeah, i remember how i made one-way tracks in TTO ;)
12:11:17  <Ailure> but that made a major diffrence for that
12:11:20  <Ailure> eh
12:11:22  <Ailure> for me at least
12:11:33  <Ailure> it was like amazing that I finally could make somewhat sane railway networks :p
12:11:46  <peter1138> heh
12:11:46  <boekabart_> Eddi|zuHause2: how?
12:11:49  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truelight * r9604 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_list.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: set default sort order to value-descending for AIList(), as that most likely will be the most used
12:12:09  <Ailure> I should try digging up one of my oldest TT games
12:12:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, you just have to "convince" the trains [pathfinder] that the other way is longer ;)
12:12:20  <Ailure> I probably have rather atricious railway networks though
12:12:56  <boekabart_> what does atricious mean?
12:13:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> that, or use a station that is on one track, and not the other track, as "waypoint"
12:13:01  <Ailure> tons of 90 degree turns
12:13:02  <Ailure> and stuff
12:13:20  <Ailure> yeah when I think on it
12:13:27  <Ailure> it's possible to fake one-way logic in TTO
12:13:32  <Ailure> it just requires more work
12:13:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> depots totally screw things up, so i switched breakdowns off
12:14:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> and occasionally you have trains reversing, that's also "suboptimal"
12:14:41  <Ailure> I also remember some fun things people did
12:14:43  <Maedhros> boekabart_: really terrible
12:14:49  <Ailure> oh god you can't order trains to depots
12:14:54  <Ailure> so you have to do forced servicing D:
12:14:57  <boekabart_> No results found for atricious.
12:15:08  <ajmiles> atrocious
12:15:11  <boekabart_> atrocious: shockingly bad or tasteless; dreadful; abominable
12:15:20  <boekabart_> got it :)
12:16:03  <Ailure> and then there's the darned vehicle limit
12:16:11  <ajmiles> and station limit
12:16:20  <Ailure> yeah
12:16:24  <Ailure> I remember getting oil rigs
12:16:25  <ajmiles> and overflow of money
12:16:26  <Ailure> without a station
12:16:41  <Ailure> since there were too many stations on the whole map
12:17:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, i remember that, too
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12:17:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> and max. 4x5 stations
12:17:44  <ajmiles> did it not have 7 length?
12:17:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> no.
12:18:06  <Ailure> yeah
12:18:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> 7x7 was a TTDP addition
12:18:17  <Ailure> max train length was 10 cars+engine
12:18:31  <Ailure> and stations had to be a perfect square
12:18:34  <Ailure> train stations at least
12:18:44  <Ailure> which is something that would be hard to go back to
12:18:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> s/square/rectangle
12:18:53  <ajmiles> theres a lot in openttd you take for granted that you assume has always been there
12:19:05  <Ailure> and I like irregular shapes now
12:19:10  <Zuu> Don't forget about autorails :)
12:19:15  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truelight * r9605 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_list.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: RemoveXXXValue and KeepXXXValue could cause infinite loops
12:19:16  <Ailure> <_<
12:19:20  <Ailure> I don't use autorails
12:19:23  <Ailure> wel
12:19:26  <Ailure> only for diagonal rails
12:19:31  <Ailure> only becuse you can't drag diagonal rails
12:19:33  <ajmiles> could do with an autoroad tool
12:19:36  <boekabart_> autorails as in pull a stretch of rails??
12:19:46  <boekabart_> how do you not use it? too much time? :)
12:19:49  <Zuu> boekabart_: a-key
12:19:53  <Ailure> I'm too twitchy
12:20:17  <Ailure> besides I use hotkeys to switch directions
12:20:32  <Ammler> Heya, is it possible to export the settings (GRF etc) from a save for a new game?
12:20:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> Ammler: probably not
12:21:04  <Zuu> Not yet, I would say :)
12:21:31  <Ammler> ok, thx :)
12:21:33  <boekabart_> i have to get used to real. accell still, being able to make 45 deg turns and 'lane changes' for free
12:22:11  <Ailure> I love the new acceleration model :P
12:22:17  <Ailure> even if it's still a bit inaccurate
12:22:18  <Ailure> new and ne
12:22:21  <Ailure> it's been around for awhile
12:22:28  <Ailure> the old one was like
12:22:33  <Ailure> even really powerful trains
12:22:40  <Ailure> would slow down to 30 km/h on slope
12:22:46  <Ailure> which was quite annoyingš
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12:23:11  <boekabart_> it's essential, it now handles a 'sharp looking' 45 deg turn as a nice curve
12:23:19  <boekabart_> since you cannot make those :)
12:23:19  <Ailure> Now I only see that happen if it's a heavy train which dosen't have enough horsepowe to maintain full speed
12:23:31  <Ailure> I usually disallow 90 degree turns too
12:23:33  <Ailure> they're ugly anyway
12:23:38  <boekabart_> i'm thinking about making a patch that renders rails differently when in non-edit mode ;)
12:23:54  <Ailure> heh
12:24:08  <Ailure> I wish there was a diffrence between electrical and regular rail
12:24:16  <Ailure> I only put electrical railway where I use it, but still.
12:24:26  <boekabart_> didn't use them yet
12:24:32  <boekabart_> when needed? to build el. trains?
12:24:35  <Ailure> right now they cost as much and is pretty much identical, apart that electrical trains can't run on non-electrified tracks of course
12:25:12  <boekabart_> anyway i think construction cost is too low, isn't it
12:25:32  <Ailure> I can imagine the construction cost of electrified railway should be double
12:25:36  <boekabart_> at least at the scale normally used (towns close together)
12:25:54  <Ailure> eh
12:25:59  <Ailure> it's too low even at large scale projects
12:26:21  <Ailure> or maybe it's just that you earn too much easily
12:26:23  <ajmiles> a train travelling the distance of the map can easily make construction costs back in one train load
12:26:43  <Ailure> yeah
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12:26:48  <boekabart_> i made a 2048x2048 scenario of the Netherlands, where 1 tile would be about 150 meters
12:26:49  <Ailure> It's kind of unrealistic
12:26:51  <Ailure> I mean
12:26:58  <Ailure> I see trains that pays back their... own train value
12:27:01  <boekabart_> then a rail starts to get more expensive than a train
12:27:01  <Ailure> on their first run
12:27:03  <boekabart_> weird
12:27:08  <Ailure> imagine if that happened in reality
12:27:12  <Ailure> train companies would be really rich
12:27:21  <ajmiles> i would run a train company
12:27:30  <ajmiles> the bank would give me a loan for the train and i'd be sorted
12:27:34  <ajmiles> free money
12:27:46  <Ailure> yeah
12:27:53  <Ailure> Newbies are afraid to take loans
12:28:03  <Ailure> as they're used to the fact that loans tend to be mean in other games
12:28:06  <Ailure> but not in TTD D:
12:28:20  <Ailure> even at highest intrest, it's still quite low
12:28:44  <Zuu> In the early years you'll just loan more and more when the maximum loan increses. :)
12:28:55  <Zuu> Free money :)
12:28:56  <Ailure> heh
12:29:00  <Zuu> Almost..
12:29:01  <Ailure> it dosen't increase when inflation is off though
12:29:10  <Zuu> Okay
12:29:15  <Ailure> I turn inflation off though
12:29:19  <Ailure> it seems to be broken in a few ways
12:29:32  <Ailure> also it's easier to compare profits
12:29:36  <Ailure> from now to ten years ago
12:29:41  <Ailure> when there's no inflation involved
12:30:47  <Ailure> on the other hand
12:31:02  <Ailure> inflation makes it more important on how much you earn
12:31:06  <Ailure> and not how much money you have
12:31:25  <Ailure> Hell in economy
12:31:31  <Ailure> Company economics I had
12:31:35  <Ailure> I was told that money that is just sitting
12:31:38  <Ailure> is wasted money
12:31:41  <Ailure> if it's no invested in anything
12:32:20  <Zuu> I've taken 6 bolonga-points economy and 6 bolonga-points logistics at uni. :)
12:32:37  <Ailure> Ah
12:32:42  <Ailure> to be honest it was a rather basic course though
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12:32:52  <Ailure>  l
12:33:01  <Ailure> heh
12:33:02  <Zuu> But we have not coverd inflation in any deapth. :)
12:33:20  <Ailure> really?
12:33:22  <Ailure> We did kinda
12:33:49  <Ailure> sadly most of the example was like
12:33:55  <Ailure> seconday industries companies
12:33:56  <Zuu> I've also been told that if you don't do anything with your 'saved' money you havn't earned anything.
12:34:06  <Ailure> input raw-material output goods companies
12:34:21  <Ailure> which was kinda a shame, as most of the people who went there were IT people ;)
12:34:29  <Ailure> Well
12:34:35  <Ailure> depositing it into a bank so you earn intrest
12:34:40  <Ailure> is considered a investment though
12:34:56  <Zuu> Did you do DuPont?
12:35:14  <Ailure> hmm
12:35:27  <Ailure> I don't really recall if I did
12:35:32  *** mikk36[EST] is now known as mikk36
12:35:43  <Ailure> I might have, but just used a diffrent term for it
12:35:47  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truelight * r9606 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_town.cpp ai_town.hpp): [NoAI] -Fix: make GetXXX in AITown static, so we can use it without AITown instance
12:35:57  <Ailure> I think I did
12:36:00  <Ailure> becuse it's in my backhead
12:36:13  <Zuu> A magic scheme where you can put your costs and incomes on varoious places and show that you have incresed the performance for the company and therefor should get paid more. :)
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12:38:00  <Ailure> ah
12:38:28  <Ailure>
12:38:32  <Ailure> intresting
12:38:40  <Ailure> still weird that it was production industry biased
12:38:51  <Ailure> when service industry is the most common apparently in western countries
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12:40:00  <Ailure> also shows how statistics can differ alot
12:40:04  <Ailure> depending on what you look on
12:40:11  <Ailure> as one map look on the GDP, other labor force
12:40:58  <hylje> :o
12:41:51  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truelight * r9607 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_transactionmode.hpp squirrel_export.awk): [NoAI] -Fix: instances should be 'x', not 'p' in SQ param list
12:42:13  <Ailure> Taht the devoloped countries are mostly blue shouldn't be a surprise :p
12:42:49  <Brianetta> openttd: /home/ottdcoop/svn-sandbox/src/vehicle.cpp:2911: void Vehicle::LeaveStation(): Assertion `IsTileType(tile, MP_STATION) || type == VEH_SHIP' failed.
12:42:52  <Brianetta> Server has exited
12:43:08  <Ailure> I gotten that error before
12:43:16  <scia> Server has excited
12:43:49  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truelight * r9608 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_list.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix r9607: forgot to commit one file
12:43:52  <hylje> scia: :o
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12:43:59  <Ailure> thing is
12:44:08  <hylje> Brianetta: think it's fixed lately
12:44:23  <Ailure> I'm not sure what happened when I last saw it xD
12:44:26  <Brianetta> I'll tell the coopers to update
12:44:34  <Ailure> oh
12:44:39  <hylje> Brianetta: it happens when you flip a too-long train around in a station
12:44:52  <Ailure> oh
12:44:54  <Ailure> that explains it
12:45:06  <Ailure> I had seen it in a big multiplayer game with long trains
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12:46:41  <ajmiles> there was a bug i had in a nightly from about a week ago with refitting planes while they were carrying another cargo, hadn't seen anything in the changelogs about a fix
12:47:03  <ajmiles> was going to try and repro it first
12:47:48  <Ailure> oh yeah
12:47:57  <Ailure> remember the airport removal bug?
12:48:02  <Ailure> I think it still happens with helicopters
12:48:51  <Ailure> or it dosen't
12:48:55  <Ailure> disregard that hah
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12:58:41  <ajmiles> mmm, v->cur_speed returns the vehicle's last speed even if it has stopped
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13:07:19  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: maedhros * r9609 /trunk/src/ (32 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Move some function prototypes out of functions.h and into landscape.h, and add a few where they didn't exist.
13:14:28  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truelight * r9610 /branches/noai/bin/ai/regression/regression.nut: [NoAI] -Fix r9604: forgot to update regression
13:17:07  <Belugas> hello
13:17:14  <Maedhros> hey Belugas
13:18:29  <boekabart_> egladil: finally got around to looking at the 32bpp branch. It good: i could easily port my overlay-patch to it
13:20:29  <boekabart_> he isn't around, is he? :)
13:22:01  <Belugas> sometimes, he is.  but not very often
13:22:19  <Belugas> i know he does react on highlights, though....
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13:51:10  <Maedhros> hmm, is the "Transparent station signs" setting not saved any more?
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13:56:58  <peter1138> not currently
13:57:02  <peter1138> different var etc...
13:58:00  <Maedhros> ok
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14:06:19  <ajmiles> if i wanted to store information about the fastest speed any bus has ever travelled, where would be a good place to store that?
14:06:55  <ajmiles> (within a particular game)
14:06:57  <boekabart_> finally got around to looking at the 32bpp branch. It good: i could easily port my overlay-patch to it
14:07:02  <boekabart_> ?!? sorry
14:07:05  <boekabart_> wrong past
14:09:08  <peter1138> ajmiles: in a new (global) struct along with other records
14:09:32  *** Osai^zZz is now known as Osai
14:10:04  <ajmiles> i've barely had time to scratch the surface with reading the code, any pointers as to in which area of the code i should declare this new struct?
14:10:14  <ajmiles> instantiate rather
14:10:17  <egladil> Belugas: indeed i do react on them ;)
14:10:38  <peter1138> probably a new file
14:11:00  <peter1138> it'll need a bunch of saveload handling stuff too
14:11:12  <ajmiles> yeah, but from where in the code do i create an instance of this records struct
14:11:28  *** Vikthor [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:11:29  <ajmiles> and is there any other files that are similar in what i want to do that i could look at?
14:11:32  <ajmiles> *are
14:11:32  <Belugas> hello egladil :D
14:11:58  <egladil> hello
14:12:37  <TrueBrain> egladil egladil egladil egladil egladil
14:12:42  <TrueBrain> or am I now just being annoying?
14:13:16  <Belugas> nooooo.... TrueBrain.  What makes you think that??
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14:19:57  <egladil> :p
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14:29:18  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truelight * r9611 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ [NoAI] -Add: allow a single param for squirrel_export which indicates the only file it should run on, instead of all *.hpp files
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14:35:25  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truelight * r9612 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/squirrel_export.awk:
14:35:25  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: ignore forward class defines in squirrel_export
14:35:25  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: only publish the lines to SQ that have a () in the line (so functions, not variables)
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14:43:13  <Scarzzurs> Lo there :_)
14:43:34  <Scarzzurs> Is it possible to have new cargoes and industries in openttd yet, or will that be added later?
14:43:36  <TrueBrain> howdie Scarzzurs
14:43:45  <Scarzzurs> It doesn't seem to be in the default nightlies
14:44:59  <Belugas> it's not there yet, indeed
14:45:07  <Belugas> newcargos are almost done,
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14:45:22  <Belugas> but newindustries are still a big work in progress
14:46:53  <Scarzzurs> Aren't they very closely related? I mean what good is newcargoes if there are no new industries that produce or accept them?
14:47:12  <Belugas> yes. that is why newcargos was done first
14:47:22  <Maedhros> they're more related conceptually than code-wise
14:47:57  <Scarzzurs> ah
14:48:30  <Belugas> because you can't have one newindustries without newcargo, but newcargo can be done without newindustries
14:48:41  <ln-> was ist dieses eigentlich:
14:48:48  <Belugas> other parts of teh game can benefit of it
14:49:10  <TrueBrain> ln-: this still is an english channel
14:50:00  <ln-> i hadn't been informed of this sudden change.
14:50:24  <hylje> enterprisey url
14:50:31  <TrueBrain> it never was any other way
14:50:48  <ln-> not even when you people spoke dutch?
14:51:04  <TrueBrain> not even then
14:52:07  <ln-> shall i be punished?
14:52:18  <TrueBrain> if you want us to
14:52:57  <ln-> it's quite harsh to punish me for someone else speaking dutch a year ago.
14:53:20  <TrueBrain> hahaha, oh boy, I need to write thisone down!
14:53:54  <hylje> haha
14:53:55  <hylje> oh wow
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14:54:18  <blathijs> 16:52 < TrueBrain> if you want us to <-- I'm wondering. Does that mean "if you want us to be punished" or "if you want us to punish you"
14:54:38  <blathijs> I'd say the latter is meant, but the first is what it technically says
14:55:46  <TrueBrain> blathijs: I leave that free for interpertation :)
14:56:16  <TrueBrain> it depends on what you fancy the most :)
14:56:54  <blathijs> bah, now you make something nasty out of my genuine linguistic concern
14:57:29  <TrueBrain> blathijs: don't you just love it? :)
14:58:36  <ln-> now, since this is an english channel, should everyone go have a cup of tea?
14:58:59  <peter1138> yes
14:59:03  <peter1138> that's an excellent idea
14:59:04  <ln-> and drive on the left side while talking here
14:59:18  <peter1138> no, don't drive and irc :p
14:59:25  <Belugas> i object!
14:59:28  <Belugas> coffee!!!
14:59:31  <TrueBrain> COLA!
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14:59:48  <TrueBrain> but it is new for me that every person speaking english, should drive left, and should drink tea
14:59:52  <Belugas> bubble.... fizzy drink... TOYLAND!
15:00:01  <TrueBrain> Belugas: YEAH!
15:00:21  <peter1138> it is now (nearly) 4pm
15:00:28  <TrueBrain> Belugas: we should make a link to the real world, thati f you deliver cola to your own town, ingame, you get someone in front of your door with cola, for real :)
15:00:32  * peter1138 starves
15:00:32  <TrueBrain> CUP A SOUP!
15:00:36  <peter1138> ehe
15:00:43  <ln-> TrueBrain: you didn't specify the "english channel" only limits to language.
15:00:56  <TrueBrain> I am waiting for a room-mate, so we can go and buy some food......
15:01:07  <TrueBrain> ln-: so let's kick out all black people, as I didn't specify that too :s :s :s
15:01:31  <ln-> england is full of black people.
15:01:38  <TrueBrain> also full of people not drinking tea
15:01:40  <TrueBrain> your point being?
15:01:57  <TrueBrain> anyway, I love the sun :) (MWHAHAHA @ Belugas :p)
15:02:02  <Belugas> [11:00] <TrueBrain> Belugas: we should make a link to the real world, <--- real world??? wth is that??
15:02:17  <TrueBrain> Belugas: hmm... I was hoping you knew, I only read the stories
15:02:28  <ln-> you should probably read higher-quality news papers.
15:02:32  * Belugas thinks TrueBrain should be kicked for making fun of poor souls :(
15:02:44  * TrueBrain feels ashamed :)
15:02:45  * TrueBrain hugs Belugas
15:02:52  <Belugas> fuuuuuuuuurrrr
15:02:57  <TrueBrain> FURBY!
15:03:00  <Belugas> you're forgiven :)
15:03:02  <peter1138> furry? scared
15:03:11  <TrueBrain> Yeah! Tnx Belugas :)
15:04:23  <ln-> see, thanks to TrueBrain, my four words of german have evolved into two dozen lines of english nonsense.
15:06:07  <Belugas> let's get your yayaz out!
15:07:36  <TrueBrain> oeh, DINNER BUY TIME!
15:07:36  <TrueBrain> bbl :)
15:07:43  <Belugas> nonsense is good sometimes.
15:07:47  <Belugas> bye TrueBrain
15:08:42  <ln-> beware of the leopard
15:18:42  <Belugas> Beware of Leo's farts
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15:50:07  <Ailure> Leopards eats mexicans now?
15:51:11  <Belugas> always did
15:53:50  <Ailure> [16:59] <TrueBrain> Belugas: we should make a link to the real world, thati f you deliver cola to your own town, ingame, you get someone in front of your door with cola, for real :)
15:54:09  <Ailure> Reminds me about how you should be able to get clay models of you creatures in spore
15:54:11  <Ailure> :o
15:55:26  <Ailure> And Belugas is a furry?
15:56:06  <hylje> omg no
15:56:15  <Ailure> omg yes
15:56:27  <Belugas> i shaved this morning... i doubt
15:56:37  <Ailure> awww ;P
16:08:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> ln-: i cannot get your link to load properly...
16:08:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's telling me it has problems with cookies, or something...
16:09:36  *** TinoM| [] has joined #openttd
16:10:47  <ln-> yeah, i noticed that a while ago.. stupid sites that you cannot link to.
16:11:32  <ln-> the device is "DCF EMPFAENGERPLATINE", that can be found through the quick search, but what does it actually contain besides the antenna
16:13:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> if that helps you
16:13:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> (on the right under "Schaltpläne")
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16:14:29  <ln-> looks quite low-level
16:16:17  <ln-> a DCF77 receiver with a *big* antenna would be nice.
16:16:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have no idea what this is supposed to be
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16:29:20  <Wolf01> hello
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17:22:55  <peter1138> THERE MAY BE TROUBLE AHEAD
17:24:37  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: maedhros * r9613 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs):
17:24:37  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Feature: Make it possible to have some control over the town growth. The
17:24:37  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: default rate is TTD's original rate, and to approximate OpenTTD's previous
17:24:37  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: behaviour the rate should be set to "Fast" or "Very Fast". Town growth can be
17:24:37  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: switched off entirely, and if so, buildings will not be rebuilt. It is also
17:24:38  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: possible to specify a proportion of towns that grow twice as fast as the
17:24:40  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: others.
17:24:50  <Maedhros> there may indeed :)
17:25:12  <peter1138> woohoo
17:26:16  <Wolf01> good :D
17:26:23  <Wolf01> there is extremely low?
17:26:33  <peter1138> there's a "none"
17:26:51  <Wolf01> none is sad :(
17:26:53  <peter1138> hehe
17:27:00  <Maedhros> there's none, slow, normal, fast, and very fast
17:27:07  <peter1138> Maedhros: did you reinstate "normal" as the original speed?
17:27:12  <Maedhros> yup
17:27:13  <Wolf01> ah good, at least slow :D
17:27:35  <peter1138> so it'll all the slower anyway
17:27:45  <peter1138> is fast or very fast like it has been since... forever?
17:27:52  <hylje> peter1138: you missed a verb there
17:28:00  <peter1138> s/the/be/
17:28:10  <Belugas> snow is fallin :(
17:28:12  <Belugas> +g
17:28:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's april, what do you expect? :)
17:29:18  * peter1138 ponders sitting outside with the laptop
17:29:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> "april" is not exactly synonym for "stable weather" ;)
17:29:26  <peter1138> as it's a lovely day
17:29:28  <Maedhros> fast is twice the original rate, very fast is four times
17:29:36  <Maedhros> the way it used to be is ~3 times as fast
17:29:42  <peter1138> hmm
17:29:52  <peter1138> well, it was too fast anyway :)
17:29:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> how does "none" behave whe funding new buildings?
17:30:35  <Belugas> maybe fund industries should be removed then...
17:30:42  <Belugas> industries...
17:30:44  <Belugas> sorry
17:30:44  <peter1138> hehe
17:30:45  <Belugas> buildings
17:31:01  <Belugas> #i've got my mind
17:31:04  <Belugas> #SET ON YOU
17:31:23  <peter1138> but it's gonna take
17:31:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> why remove?
17:31:46  <Belugas> a very a very a ver a very long time
17:31:49  <Maedhros> Eddi|zuHause2: you still don't get any buildings, even when pressing "fund new buildings"
17:31:54  <peter1138> to do it, to do it, to do it, to do it, to do it, to do it RIGHT
17:32:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> it should still work
17:32:07  <Belugas> so just remove it then...
17:32:10  <Belugas> :D at peter1138
17:32:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> imho
17:32:45  <Belugas> a whole lot of precious time
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17:33:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> maybe "fund new buildings" should just instantly create a building or something
17:33:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> i.e. nothing with a delayed effect
17:34:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> (that would obviously be delayed infinitely)
17:35:50  <ln->
17:36:23  <peter1138> o_O
17:37:12  <hylje> :o
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17:42:40  <Wolf01> i've seen a "modified cost of building grf" in the Brianetta's server, is possible to modify the terraform and rail/road costs with a grf?
17:43:07  <peter1138> yes
17:43:14  <peter1138> precisely what that grf does
17:43:30  <Wolf01> :O
17:44:11  <Wolf01> this is like "enjoy the power of grf!"
17:49:00  <Wolf01> too bad that grfs require to be decompiled and recompiled again if somebody wants to change something :)
17:49:41  <Belugas> it's not too hard to do, you know...
17:50:38  <Belugas> but it does require a bit of knowledge to get the job done, once decompiled
17:51:00  <Wolf01> i don't know, i never tried, but i'm used to change easily the settings on ini files or directly in the game... or code them if i can
17:52:13  <Belugas> not quite the same thing :)
17:52:25  <Belugas> but knowledge is the source of the power!
17:52:44  <Wolf01> i'm wondering if there is a way to set the day length with a grf
17:53:01  <peter1138> heh
17:53:02  <peter1138> no
17:53:09  <peter1138> not even a hard way
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17:56:45  <Wolf01> i'm wondering also why my daylength patch can't work well with multiplayer, if i set it NS the game desyncs always
17:57:02  <peter1138> well, it needs to be saved
17:58:24  <Maedhros> NS doesn't work, and should probably be removed
17:58:35  <Maedhros> if you use it, it only gets synced when the value changes
17:59:02  <Wolf01> oh, that's why
18:00:11  <Maedhros> Eddi|zuHause2: i've got a patch to use the "normal" growth rate values when you use Fund new buildings
18:04:25  <Wolf01> with town growth set to none, can houses disappear automatically?
18:05:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> i hope not
18:05:46  <Maedhros> well, newgrf houses can if they are specifically set to (e.g. stock markets in ttrs[23])
18:05:52  <Maedhros> but otherwise no
18:09:46  <Wolf01> can i suggest one thing? i would like to have "Change setting value x to y" when double cliking on a value in the configure patches
18:11:15  <peter1138> like it does?
18:11:25  <peter1138> well, for numerical values
18:11:36  <peter1138> oh, but it's single click
18:13:04  <Maedhros> should funding new buildings with town growth set to none be a patch option?
18:14:13  <peter1138> yapo
18:14:20  <peter1138> is it necessary
18:14:21  <peter1138> ?
18:14:37  <Maedhros> probably not
18:15:17  <ln-> german fighter down near interlaken.
18:17:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> where the hell is "interlaken"?
18:17:30  <ln-> in the middle of switzerland.
18:18:30  <ln-> the lauterbrunnental 10 km from interlaken is the place that j.r.r. tolkien visited in 1910's, and which is the inspiration of rivendell.
18:20:03  <scia> which tunnel there is the inpiration for Moria?
18:21:43  <hylje> probably some random coal mine
18:23:53  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: maedhros * r9614 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Feature: Use the normal growth rate values when the growth rate is set to none and "Fund new buildings" is used.
18:24:47  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: miham * r9615 /trunk/src/lang/ (hungarian.txt italian.txt japanese.txt):
18:24:47  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-04-12 20:22:06
18:24:47  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: hungarian - 8 fixed by miham (8)
18:24:47  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: italian - 21 fixed, 707 changed by lorenzodv (728)
18:24:47  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: japanese - 11 fixed by ickoonite (11)
18:30:58  <Wolf01> how much the Brianetta's "modify costs grf" change the costs?
18:31:17  <Wolf01> i want something like terraforming cost x1000
18:31:22  <peter1138> it's pikkas, and not that much
18:31:51  <Wolf01> i'll try to make one for me :D
18:32:48  <Wolf01> there's somebody who can tell me how to start?
18:32:52  <peter1138> iirc a value of something like 0x12 would * 1024
18:33:56  <Wolf01> i meant how to start to code grfs :D
18:34:04  <peter1138> well
18:34:20  <Wolf01> <- i think i should start from here
18:34:24  <peter1138> yes
18:34:33  <hylje> oh why can the grfs not be human-readable
18:34:42  <peter1138> because they're machine readable
18:34:49  <hylje> which could be done on load
18:34:55  <hylje> with no overhead
18:36:46  <peter1138> well, code it then
18:36:56  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: maedhros * r9616 /trunk/src/settings.cpp: -Cleanup: Remove the NS setting type since it causes desyncs in multiplayer mode and only serves to confuse patch authors.
18:37:24  <hylje> i probably could, but im not comfortable with c++
18:37:34  <peter1138> you would be afterwards
18:37:47  <hylje> although think a grf compiler could be done as an external tool
18:38:02  <peter1138> funny that
18:38:38  <Wolf01> nooo i missed the change of the hospital picture of the TTRS :(
18:39:13  <peter1138> hehe
18:40:21  <Wolf01> uhm, there is one which is still the same
18:43:37  <Maedhros> it's a bit random, so it should change within a few years
18:43:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> you need no C[++] skills to create a compiler
18:44:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> narf, now you got me started on lotr again, curse you, ln-
18:48:15  <Wolf01> uhm, i'm still wondering why is not possible to build a bridge along a slope... you can build tracks, wny not a bridge?
18:49:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> why build a bridge when you can build tracks?
18:50:05  <Belugas> big white flakes on my window
18:50:11  <Wolf01> because there is a road under
18:50:11  <Belugas> what an horrible sight
18:50:36  <Wolf01> and i don't have enough space to build in another place
18:50:44  <Wolf01> because of a city
18:51:16  <peter1138> Belugas: you should wash your hair more often
18:51:57  <Belugas> hehe
18:52:12  <Wolf01> 23°C here
18:52:15  <Belugas> if only it was that :;)
18:52:54  <Belugas> it's not cold, between -1 and 1, but it's just... ugly
18:53:15  <peter1138> no, that is cold
18:53:20  <scia> hmm isn't it spring?
18:53:28  <peter1138> not in canadaia
18:55:51  <Belugas> i have my leather jacket when outside.  Does not feel cold.  Not hot, but not cold.
18:56:00  <Belugas> thick skin :)
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18:56:54  <scia> Belugas: seal-skin?
18:58:35  <Belugas> a seal is not a dolphin :P
18:58:41  <Belugas> or a whale...
18:58:43  <hylje> dolphin skin?
18:58:53  <Belugas> yup :)
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19:00:26  <peter1138> HOME by the SEA
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19:24:13  <Ailure> ok
19:27:22  <hylje> :3
19:27:29  <Ailure> mew :3
19:29:09  <hylje> i caught a mew
19:30:07  *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
19:31:40  <SpComb> wheeled seal.
19:31:59  <hylje> what has science done?
19:32:36  <SpComb> many things
19:33:06  <Ailure> aahh
19:33:10  <Ailure> what's with the gibberish spam
19:33:11  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9617 /trunk/src/economy.cpp: -Codechange: Implement callback for cargo profit calculation
19:33:15  <Ailure> with hundreds and thousands all over the image
19:33:16  <Ailure> ...
19:33:20  <Ailure> xD
19:33:24  <Ailure> That might not be correct name
19:33:30  <Ailure> some sort of condiment you have on ice cream
19:35:02  <Wolf01> i learnt something new
19:35:09  <peter1138> what what what
19:35:27  <hylje> lol wut
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19:36:27  <peter1138> bjarniized
19:36:30  <Wolf01> if i'm looking at the old ruined hospital in a city A, but there is an old but good hospital in a city B, the hospital in the city B will be demolished and rebuilt before the one in the city A
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19:36:50  <peter1138> hmm
19:36:54  <peter1138> isn't it... random?
19:36:54  <Wolf01> hello Bjarni
19:37:06  <Bjarni> hi channel :)
19:37:15  <Wolf01> yes, but also random demolish speed
19:37:17  <peter1138> SIR BJARNI
19:37:21  <peter1138> hmm
19:37:29  <peter1138> well that might be a bug :p
19:37:46  <ln-> welcome to the english channel, bjarni
19:38:09  <Bjarni> *English
19:38:18  <Bjarni> :p
19:38:29  <Wolf01> or maybe is related to Maedhros new feature... the one i was looking at belonged to a "slow" city, and the other to a "fast" city
19:38:37  <peter1138> possible
19:38:53  <Bjarni> btw I found something I didn't know we had in the country
19:39:04  <peter1138> bacon?
19:39:10  <ln-> a woman?
19:39:12  <Wolf01> tea?
19:39:15  <peter1138> lego?
19:39:15  <Bjarni> inside the main repair shop in Copenhagen is there a turntable with catenary
19:39:23  <peter1138> oh
19:39:23  <hylje> what
19:39:25  <peter1138> how boring
19:39:27  <Bjarni> it's not visible from the outside
19:39:33  <hylje> screenshots or it doesnt exists
19:39:34  <hylje> -s
19:39:45  <Wolf01> lol
19:39:55  <Bjarni> I will bring my camera next time I have to pass it (Monday)
19:39:58  <ln-> they are obviously trying to compete with us
19:40:24  <Bjarni> well
19:40:39  <Bjarni> hmm
19:40:50  <Bjarni> what it the voltage in Finnish catenary?
19:41:01  <ln-> 25 kV i think
19:41:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> you have catenary in denmark? blasphemy!
19:41:43  <Bjarni> we use 25 kV
19:41:45  <hylje> third rail ftw?
19:41:53  <Bjarni> LOL
19:41:55  <peter1138> 3rd rail :D
19:41:58  <peter1138> and 4th rail!
19:42:00  <Bjarni> 25 kV in 3rd rail :D
19:42:16  <hylje> badgers say bzzt
19:42:16  <Bjarni> the security distance from a fallen down wire is 5 meters
19:42:29  <Bjarni> preferable more
19:42:38  <hylje> you know what?
19:42:41  <Bjarni> in other words: run away!
19:42:46  <hylje> the local traffic trains have a warning in them
19:43:03  <hylje> it forbids climbing atop the train when catenary is powered
19:43:14  <hylje> when it isnt its apparently ok to climb atop it
19:43:15  <Wolf01> found a bug!
19:43:32  <Bjarni> LOL@hylje
19:43:52  <peter1138>
19:43:54  <peter1138> now that is fucked up
19:44:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> hylje: is that like: if it does not say coffee is hot on the cup, it is ok to treat it like cold coffee?
19:44:19  <hylje> err.. what?
19:44:25  <Wolf01> fast forward on, autosave, fastforward widget unset but ff still on :D
19:44:40  <peter1138> Wolf01: still? hmmmm
19:45:03  <hylje> Eddi|zuHause2: its probably like "when coffee is hot, dont spill it on your lap"
19:45:22  <Bjarni> that reminds me of a drunk guy, who wanted to commit suicide by jumping off a bridge. When people convinced him to go back, he was hit by the pantograph on a passing train ("only" 1,5kV). He fell down on the roof without being fried and they had to cut power pretty fast to get him down
19:45:25  <hylje> and spilling cold coffee on one's lap is likely ok
19:45:30  <Bjarni> he survived with minor injuries
19:45:59  <Bjarni> now that's an odd way for a train to hit a person
19:46:07  <ln-> 1,5kV AC or DC?
19:46:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> 1,5kV does not sound like a typical AC value
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19:47:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> though most common DC is probably 500V
19:47:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> most german trams use that
19:48:25  <Bjarni> it's the DC system from the 30s that nobody found the cash to replace
19:50:42  <hylje> rubber tyre trains are indeed silly
19:53:20  <Bjarni> both yes and no
19:53:30  <Bjarni> they are designed to reduce a noise problem
19:53:55  <Bjarni> I guess they have an easier time braking and accelerating as well
19:54:04  <Bjarni> however they get worn faster
19:54:06  <hylje> do they use rails as usual?
19:54:11  <Bjarni> yes
19:55:10  <Bjarni> also some train detection systems (most of them) relies of magnetic abilities in the metal of the wheels (axle count) or the ability to transfer a voltage from one rail to the other one
19:55:24  <Bjarni> I don't know how they solved those issues with rubber tires
19:55:42  <hylje> probably they didnt
19:55:51  <hylje> and use some other kind of detection
19:55:56  <hylje> say, timetables
19:56:05  <scia> did you see the picture
19:56:23  <scia> it are just normal car tires :p
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19:57:06  <Bjarni> michelin tried to convince Denmark to buy a train with tires like that
19:57:08  <scia> they seem to drive between the rails instead of on them :s
19:57:27  <Bjarni> we didn't and it turned out to be good... they appeared to have problems
19:57:32  <Belugas> we have those kind of metros on tires in here.
19:57:35  <peter1138> looks a bit bumpy :p
19:57:35  <Belugas> work like a charm
19:58:05  <Belugas> nope... they look confortable :D
19:58:12  <Belugas> and they are!
19:58:26  <scia>
19:58:30  <Bjarni> <scia>	they seem to drive between the rails instead of on them :s <-- look at the track. It appears to have two rails, one for the wheels to stand on and a higher one to "guide" the train
19:58:52  <scia> indeed, on a closer look
19:59:27  * Bjarni has looked at rails and bogies before
19:59:46  <Bjarni> I notice when "they look out of the ordinary"
19:59:51  * scia goes to sleep
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20:00:22  <Belugas>
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20:00:48  <Belugas>
20:01:21  <peter1138> heh, looks like the same units too
20:01:57  <Belugas> yup :)
20:01:59  <Belugas> quite
20:02:18  <glx> [21:58:05] <@Belugas> we have those kind of metros on tires in here. <-- of course they bought our system :)
20:02:27  <Bjarni> Do they ever get delayed/canceled because they puncture?
20:04:17  <Belugas> glx , are you sure it's not the other way around ? :P
20:04:19  <Belugas> hehe
20:04:37  <Belugas> Bjarni : not that i know.
20:04:58  <glx> Belugas: 1951
20:05:41  <glx>
20:06:56  <Belugas> true true :)
20:07:45  * Bjarni wonders if glx just updated wikipedia
20:08:10  <glx> lol
20:08:40  <Bjarni> brb
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20:36:47  <Belugas> byebye good night
20:36:54  <Belugas> and enjoy the moment
20:38:20  <Wolf01> night
20:41:33  <Wolf01> i must have a pcx file to create a grf or i can code a nfo alone?
20:46:30  <ln->
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21:03:44  <Wolf01> 'night all
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21:17:15  <Bjarni> ln-: I read an article about a Ryanair plane flying from London to Denmark (Billund) and it dropped a part of the wing in the flight
21:17:47  <Bjarni> it wasn't a critical part, but still and since the story started with a picture of the wing with the missing part, they had to admit that it was true
21:17:53  <Bjarni> so much for safety
21:22:02  *** `Alex` [] has joined #openttd
21:22:19  <`Alex`> hi all
21:22:53  <`Alex`> can someone tell me if there will ever be the smooth economy patch in the openttd trunk?
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21:22:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, i only understand about every second word of that article...
21:23:04  <ln-> Bjarni: things happen to all airline companies..
21:24:03  <`Alex`> or are you even considering that patch?
21:24:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> `Alex`: i have not seen any discussion about this
21:25:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> and it's probably not going to happen, considering the gamebalance branch
21:25:31  <`Alex`> do you know what that patch is about?
21:25:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> not exactly
21:26:20  <`Alex`> it makes the industries produce more or less depending on the demand put on them
21:27:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> again, it's probably conflicting with the plan for the gamebalance branch
21:27:31  <Bjarni> <ln->	Bjarni: things happen to all airline companies.. <--- yeah, but more often to low cost airlines than expensive ones (go figure)
21:28:03  <`Alex`> i think the patch would make the multiplayer games more enjoyable to all players
21:28:28  <Bjarni> but the main issue is actually something else: we spent fortunes to reduce pollution and then some airline decides to more or less give tickets away for free to get more passengers
21:28:29  <`Alex`> there would be no industry grabbing
21:29:05  <peter1138> so less challenge?
21:29:09  <`Alex`> no
21:29:46  <`Alex`> the players rating decides if he will get the resources from that industry
21:30:38  <`Alex`> so if he is lower than the other players stations near that industry he will not get as many resources
21:30:57  <`Alex`> thats what the rating is all about
21:32:11  <`Alex`> the only difference will be that all the players would have to chance to compete at an already producing industry
21:32:53  <`Alex`> the more the demand (90% or more transported) the more it will gradualy increase in production
21:33:26  <`Alex`> or it will decrease if no one is using the industry
21:34:45  <`Alex`> there is also a sensitivity setting of 1<->10 that affects the production change over time
21:36:03  <Eddi|zuHause2>
21:36:57  <`Alex`> balancing rules for future releases?
21:37:12  <Bjarni> goodnight
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21:38:36  <`Alex`> this seems even better as it is divided into difficulties
21:38:57  <`Alex`> but the formulaes can get quite complicated
21:39:31  <`Alex`> i cant even imagine the code behind those rules
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21:40:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> you don't have to :)
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21:41:17  <`Alex`> when will this happen?
21:43:11  <`Alex`> i would love to help but my C is bad and i am busy with school
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21:44:18  <Ailure> hmm
21:44:22  <Ailure> ok
21:44:25  <Ailure> confession time
21:44:36  <Ailure> What's the most evil thing you done in a multiplayer game? :)
21:44:44  <`Alex`> well now
21:44:52  <`Alex`> let me think
21:45:00  <Ailure> Me? I bought exclusive rights on a single town in a game, causing someone's whole network to deadlock
21:45:09  <Ailure> (He had lots and lots of trains long trains)
21:45:09  <`Alex`> nice
21:45:31  <`Alex`> whats even more evil
21:45:52  <`Alex`> when dissasters are enabled
21:46:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> `Alex`: it's the plan for the gamebalance branch, which has already started
21:46:33  <Ailure> which reminds me
21:46:36  <Ailure> hmm
21:46:43  <`Alex`> i destroy the opponets buses with my trains
21:47:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have not played a lot of multiplayer games
21:47:39  <Ailure> I have
21:47:40  <Ailure> heh
21:47:47  <`Alex`> or what something critical on his line is destroyed i quickly fill it with my own stuff and than he has to manouver around it if he can
21:47:53  <Ailure> You tend to notice the exploits much more
21:47:56  <Ailure> although I remmeber in TTO
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21:48:06  <Ailure> where a bug allowed you to destroy some of opponents stuff
21:48:14  <Ailure> oh yeah
21:48:20  <Ailure> you build track on his road
21:48:27  <Ailure> and then you can demolish the road tile
21:48:33  <Ailure> that 'bug' was fixed in TTD though
21:48:35  <`Alex`> or build tracks around his stations
21:50:06  <`Alex`> or the most evil thing
21:50:22  <`Alex`> you give him 100's of millions of $
21:50:28  <`Alex`> and then he is bored
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21:57:45  <ln-> how to differentiate f(ax+bt, by+at) when f is not known?
21:58:12  <ln-> or, we know that f: R² -> R, and partial derivatives is what we want
21:59:14  <peter1138> remember
21:59:18  <peter1138> this is an english channel
21:59:26  <peter1138> not a maths channel
21:59:52  <ln-> i have received very good maths advice here earlier.
22:00:28  <ln-> however, the answer is probably the chain rule, i'll look into it before asking for more details..
22:00:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> that's what i was about to write
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22:13:51  <smithj> hello
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