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Log for #openttd on 20th April 2007:
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05:54:44  <peter1138> and hello again
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06:00:09  <boekabart_> morning
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07:03:58  <ln-> don't tell me there's still 30°C in germany?
07:04:45  <SpComb> there was 30°C here on the 14th
07:05:39  <ln-> and 50°C here last summer, but let's not count the cases when the sun hits the sensor.
07:06:56  *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd
07:07:13  <roboman> is there such thing as diagonal bridges?
07:07:22  *** maddy [~maddy@88-136-249-118.adslgp.cegetel.net] has joined #openttd
07:07:31  <ln-> have you ever seen a diagonal bridge in real life?
07:07:54  <roboman> no
07:08:01  <ln-> see, they cannot exist.
07:08:11  <roboman> I read someone said it in a thread
07:08:32  <roboman> I assume they meant bridges over everythin
07:08:34  <peter1138> heh
07:08:51  <roboman> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=31466&start=20
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07:14:24  <roboman> although IRL it depends what you call diagonal as RL isnt bound by square boxes
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07:30:22  <peter1138> bit slow there roboman :p
07:41:14  <boekabart_> why would diagonal bridges not exist in real life? isn't every fly-over a diagonal bridge?
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07:41:59  <Rubidium> no
07:42:43  <Rubidium> or, when it is actually true, we support (some) diagonal bridges in OTTD
07:49:19  <peter1138> boekabart_: IRL, bridges are just bridges...
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07:51:24  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9682 /trunk/src/ (saveload.cpp saveload.h): -Codechange: Add support for saving/loading std::lists containing object references (REF_*)
07:51:40  <boekabart_> lol. anyway: are there any plans for diagonal bridges in ottd?
07:54:15  <Eddi|zuHause3> i would call that "dream", not "plan"
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08:00:33  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9683 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Fix [FS#423]: improved loading does not use a huge amount of processing power anymore when having a lot of trains.
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08:03:34  <SpComb> omg ponies
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08:37:38  <peter1138> what?
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08:59:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> somehow "Taiga" and "Pony" do not really mix...
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09:36:20  <boekabart_> anyone here who knows (a lot) about canals and the map-array?
09:36:46  <boekabart_> Q: wondering what the thing is with ownership: is the owner of a canal tile OWNER_WATER, yes, no or sometimes?
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09:44:12  <peter1138> no
09:44:18  <peter1138> it used to be, but now it's not.
09:45:43  * roboman remembers on Brianetta's Starndard when he went broke and had a cala wit a dock on it that weh deleted caused the city to be submerged
09:46:22  <boekabart_> in the startup game, it still is
09:49:27  <peter1138> boekabart_, yes, because retroactively changing the owner is not really possible
09:49:30  <peter1138> because... you don't know who the owner is...
09:49:54  <peter1138> retrospectively?
09:50:27  <boekabart_> i think you can: if owner water and height > 0 shouldn't be owned by water
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09:50:58  <boekabart_> ah , problem is : if not water, then who?
10:00:26  <Rubidium> the person who has paid for making it water
10:01:31  <peter1138> boekabart_, exactly
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10:01:46  <peter1138> Rubidium: yes, but not when converting old games, heh
10:02:47  <Rubidium> nope, then it's always water ;)
10:03:50  <boekabart_> yeah, which sucks
10:04:30  <Rubidium> there is no way to know who has paid for those canals (anymore), so it will always suck
10:04:42  <peter1138> but not majorly
10:05:30  <peter1138> i don't generally replay old games...
10:06:38  <boekabart_> well you do every time you start up the game
10:06:52  <peter1138> yeah but who gives a shit about that?
10:07:39  <boekabart_> either no-one or everyone who starts up the game
10:07:48  <peter1138> you don't play it, it just sits there running itself
10:07:52  <boekabart_> so, every recent game has canal owner to someone, not water
10:08:03  <boekabart_> how about canals built in scenario editor?
10:08:33  <peter1138> owner_none probably
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10:13:16  <Maedhros> morning
10:14:02  <Rubidium> typically someone from England ;)
10:14:14  <Rubidium> anyway, morning Maedhros
10:14:18  <Maedhros> :p
10:14:21  <Maedhros> morning Rubidium
10:15:03  <Maedhros> Rubidium: in r6983, why are vehicles added to the loading_vehicles list in Vehicle::LeaveStation?
10:16:08  <peter1138> *cough*
10:16:35  <Maedhros> also, v->LeaveStation doesn't seem to be called for aircraft anywhere
10:17:22  <Rubidium> oops ;), Maedhros can you fix it?
10:17:32  <peter1138> .remove(this) i guess
10:17:39  <peter1138> i could but i've got a ton of other changes in there :(
10:18:55  <Maedhros> ok :)
10:21:34  <peter1138> hmm, and do you know where to put LeaveStation for aircraft?
10:22:18  <Maedhros> judging by all the others, it should be at the end of HandleAircraftLoading in aircraft_cmd.cpp
10:22:53  <Maedhros> although i have a feeling more calls need to be added for when vehicles leave the station for other reasons
10:23:10  <Maedhros> like going to the depot, or having the order changed manually
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10:28:07  <peter1138> hmm
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11:06:00  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: maedhros * r9684 /trunk/src/ (aircraft_cmd.cpp vehicle.cpp):
11:06:00  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Fix (r9683): Remove vehicles from the station loading list instead of adding
11:06:00  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: them again when they leave, and add a v->LeaveStation() call for aircraft.
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11:06:40  <Maedhros> as far as i can tell, it's just forcing vehicles to go the depot that doesn't call v->LeaveStation now
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11:20:35  <peter1138> skipping does the right thing?
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11:23:53  <Maedhros> it seems to, as does deleting the current order, but i haven't worked out how yet
11:24:11  <peter1138> heh
11:27:51  * Sacro reads rail_cmd.cpp
11:29:03  <Sacro>  return 15 + 8 + (tileh == SLOPE_STEEP_W ? 4 : 0
11:29:05  <Sacro> :\
11:32:37  <Brianetta> Hi
11:32:47  <Brianetta> I have inherited a gold pen
11:32:56  <Brianetta> It's an heirloom
11:33:11  <Rubidium> nice, does it write in gold too?
11:33:22  <Brianetta> It writes in whatever you fill it with
11:33:30  <Brianetta> Currently, blue-black Quink
11:34:03  <Brianetta> It started off black, but apparently it was last filled from two bottles
11:36:27  <boekabart_> How about this: http://boekabart.googlepages.com/sealevel
11:36:57  <Maedhros> does this look sensible? http://devs.openttd.org/~maedhros/depot_leave_station.diff
11:37:23  <Maedhros> i can't think of any other things that cause vehicles to leave stations
11:37:36  <peter1138> looks reasonable
11:38:26  <peter1138> boekabart_, lol
11:39:01  <boekabart_> wait, i'll add the diff to the page
11:39:03  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: maedhros * r9685 /trunk/src/ (aircraft_cmd.cpp roadveh_cmd.cpp ship_cmd.cpp train_cmd.cpp): -Fix (r9683): Call v->LeaveStation() when a vehicle in a station is sent to a depot.
11:39:20  <peter1138> boekabart_, i think it should raise the tile corners, in the last picture
11:39:28  <peter1138> hmm, maybe
11:39:33  <peter1138> it looks a bit weird :/
11:39:48  <boekabart_> peter1138: no, tried that, really complicated plus deep sea is cooler.
11:40:01  <peter1138> yeah, i realised that wouldn't allow deep sea :/
11:40:31  <boekabart_> now you're not able to tunnel under deep see, need to raise sea floor 1 level
11:41:05  <peter1138> where's the diff? :p
11:41:33  <boekabart_> so the scenario can have un-tunnable sea (tunnelable after big investment :) ) and tunnelable sea
11:42:08  <peter1138> yeah, what happens when terraforming deep sea?
11:42:36  <boekabart_> nothing at first, only after 2nd level you see it
11:42:39  <Brianetta> It should cost a f***load.
11:42:47  <peter1138> yeah
11:42:47  <boekabart_> well it does i guess, let me test
11:42:55  <peter1138> hmm
11:42:57  <Brianetta> No, additional f***loads
11:43:10  <Brianetta> Disproportionately expensive job.
11:43:10  <peter1138> problem is it makes the normal sea look totally flat
11:43:25  <peter1138> and the deep sea looks like how it should be normally
11:44:05  <peter1138> is deeper deep sea possible?
11:44:08  <boekabart_> yes, sea level can be raised up to 15
11:44:09  <boekabart_> http://boekabart.googlepages.com/boekabart_sealevel_1.diff
11:44:50  <Brianetta> I think deep floods should propagate more quickly
11:44:50  <Brianetta> If the sea's higher than a polder, rather than level with it, and the dyke breaks... flush!
11:45:06  <boekabart_> Brianetta: should be doable
11:45:29  <Brianetta> boekabart_: With the additional benefit that the hovering sea effect isn't so bad
11:45:33  <Brianetta> because it's over so quickly
11:45:57  <boekabart_> hovering sea effect can be less sucky if we make the sprite transparent
11:46:00  <boekabart_> :)
11:46:12  <boekabart_> by the way lowering also works, land dries up slowly.
11:46:15  <Brianetta> or use house foundations (:
11:46:31  <boekabart_> yes, NICE idea! :)
11:46:51  <boekabart_> (old water-owned canals dry up now, by the way, if > sea level)
11:46:53  <Brianetta> Get some custom ones drawn that look like frothy waves
11:47:24  <boekabart_> actually, the brown ground is drawn just to get rid of black holes
11:47:33  <boekabart_> i'll request 'waterwall' sprites on the forum
11:47:38  <Brianetta> Why not draw water under there?
11:47:50  <boekabart_> doesn't look good
11:47:56  <Brianetta> ah
11:48:01  <Brianetta> I see you tried it (:
11:48:02  <boekabart_> plus, you need the slopes
11:48:22  <Brianetta> yes, of course
11:48:37  <peter1138> hmm
11:48:42  <peter1138> you've added a *huge* comment? :p
11:48:52  <Brianetta> So, if you raise water level, do you get a brown border at the bottom of the map?
11:49:03  <boekabart_> huge comment: yes, that was the raising-terrain code i think
11:49:06  <peter1138> !
11:49:09  <boekabart_> of course i need to clean up the patch
11:49:10  <peter1138> new disaster...
11:49:16  <peter1138> global warming... rising sealevel...
11:49:21  <boekabart_> LOL
11:49:26  <boekabart_> very bad disaster
11:49:35  <boekabart_> should be announced a couple of months in advance, right?
11:49:43  <Brianetta> peter1138: Disasters should be triggerable from console (:
11:49:47  <boekabart_> current UI: scenario editor, raise/lower tile 0,0 (upper corner)
11:50:02  <Brianetta> It'd be cool if a server admin could request a recession, for example
11:50:22  <boekabart_> or a flood if all the players are sinners
11:50:25  <boekabart_> :D
11:50:30  <Brianetta> A drought could lower the sea level
11:50:51  <boekabart_> <0 is not possible, uint ....
11:50:58  <Brianetta> Well, default it to 2 or something
11:51:09  <Brianetta> The TGP has a "sea level" setting
11:51:31  <Brianetta> You could adjust that to match at generation time
11:51:31  <boekabart_> tgp =?
11:51:35  <Brianetta> Terragenesis Perlin
11:51:44  <Brianetta> The landscape generator
11:51:52  <peter1138> heh
11:51:58  <boekabart_> right. anyway  currently WATERLEVEL is deffed as TileHeight((TileIndex)0)
11:52:03  <peter1138> should be a separate setting
11:52:06  <boekabart_> would like a separate setting
11:52:18  <Brianetta> I still think it'd be nice to have differing water levels
11:53:27  <boekabart_> tides!?
11:53:27  <peter1138> hmm
11:53:27  <Brianetta> so you could do lakes on hills, reservoirs, etc
11:53:27  <peter1138> lakes
11:53:27  <peter1138> that's more tricky...
11:53:27  <boekabart_> well you can
11:53:27  <Brianetta> Yes
11:53:27  <boekabart_> already
11:53:27  <Brianetta> boekabart_: People will start to want to bear your children if you do that
11:53:27  <boekabart_> ah no you can't now.
11:53:35  <boekabart_> would have to change the drying up code for that
11:54:00  <Brianetta> Drying up would really need "boggy ground" tiles
11:54:10  <Brianetta> so that it could happen in stages
11:54:12  <boekabart_> what?
11:54:25  <boekabart_> waterlevel info per tile?
11:54:40  <Brianetta> no
11:54:46  <Brianetta> You know how grass grows back in stages?
11:54:52  <Brianetta> Water should dry up in stages too
11:55:01  <boekabart_> it does
11:55:26  <boekabart_> but the 'if' now is: if water (not canal) and height > sealevel  then dryup
11:55:34  <boekabart_> should be neighbor related.
11:55:36  <boekabart_> or so
11:55:53  <Brianetta> but dryup is instant?
11:55:53  <peter1138> hm
11:56:43  <boekabart_> yes
11:56:55  <boekabart_> lowering sea-level-sprite is instant-instant
11:57:13  <peter1138> hmz
11:57:15  <boekabart_> turning in to land is done in tileLoop
11:57:42  <boekabart_> anyway it was meant to be set in scenario editor and not changed after
11:59:15  <boekabart_> ah by the way, i don't think drawing the water with DrawGroundSprite is all that correct if it's floating.
11:59:21  <boekabart_> any idea how to do it better?
11:59:56  <peter1138> AddSortableSpriteToDraw()
12:00:36  <peter1138> x = 0, y = 0, w = 16, h = 16, dz = 0, z = sealevel? or maybe sealevel - tileheight
12:01:16  <peter1138> (probably)
12:03:51  <boekabart_> setting the last z doesn't work
12:04:12  <boekabart_> ... but setting ti->z to WATERLEVEL temporarily works
12:09:30  <peter1138> maybe it's dz then... i can't remember :(
12:09:37  <peter1138> d would be delta though...
12:09:45  <peter1138> try it
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12:15:57  <hylje> cool
12:16:54  <boekabart_> 				AddSortableSpriteToDraw( SPR_FLAT_WATER_TILE, PAL_NONE, ti->x, ti->y, 16, 16, 0, ti->z + dz );
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12:36:38  <Sacro> http://homepage.univie.ac.at/horst.prillinger/metro/m/londonundergroundmapgerman.html :\
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12:43:51  <MeusH> hello
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12:45:34  <hnsn> hi fellow ottd player
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13:07:51  <Belugas> hello
13:08:34  <Maedhros> hey Belugas
13:08:56  <Belugas> hello Maedhros
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13:13:39  <peter1138> Belugas Belugas Belugas
13:16:04  <Belugas> #Someone's screaming my name
13:16:14  <Belugas> #Come and make me Holy again
13:16:31  <Belugas> #I'm the man on the Silver Mountain
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13:17:14  <boekabart_> peter1138: updated site
13:17:20  *** Osai [~Osai@pd9eb73d8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
13:17:22  <boekabart_> and posted on http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=577016
13:17:32  <peter1138> nooo! secret feature :/
13:17:41  <boekabart_> gotta go, later
13:17:44  *** boekabart_ [~boekabart@81.58.27.138] has left #openttd [Back to work, back to work, everybody, work work work work!]
13:18:05  <peter1138> but tho...
13:18:06  <peter1138> *doh*
13:18:13  <peter1138> those defines should not be defines
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13:21:09  <Belugas> WOUHA!
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14:00:54  <Epoxi> hello
14:02:07  <Belugas> hello
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15:04:02  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9686 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: Update a couple of NewGRF TTDPatch flags
15:04:53  <Sacro|Laptop> :o newsomethings?
15:04:53  *** Thomas[NL] [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:05:47  <peter1138> old
15:06:12  *** Thomas[NL] [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
15:07:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> oldnewsomethings!
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15:09:34  <antichaos> peter1138 does newcarogs allow a grf to completely change the existing cargos, such that st->goods[CT_PASSENGERS] might not refer to a passengers at all?
15:10:48  <Sacro|Laptop> http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/cd_tray_fight.png
15:13:20  <peter1138> yes
15:15:58  <peter1138> avoid using CT_*, basically, except CT_INVALID.
15:21:34  <Eddi|zuHause3> Sacro|Laptop: rofl @ underground ;)
15:24:41  <Sacro|Laptop> Eddi|zuHause3: hehe, i thought so
15:25:07  <hylje> silly germans
15:25:23  <peter1138> hmm?
15:25:34  <peter1138> oh, that pic
15:25:39  <Belugas> Sacro|Laptop ain't a german...
15:26:28  <Sacro|Laptop> Belugas: ich bin ein berliner
15:26:41  <peter1138> Belugas! SLUSH!
15:27:00  <Belugas> desole, j'comprends pas un mot d'allemand
15:27:12  <Belugas> slush ... brrrr
15:27:34  <Eddi|zuHause3> some of the translations are really funny :)
15:34:39  <SpComb> Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
15:34:39  <Thomas[NL]> !logs
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15:36:51  <SpComb> hmm... so many places have their logs online these days
15:37:14  * SpComb needs to dust off SpBotII, fix it and start using it some day Real Soon (tm)
15:37:32  <SpComb> configureable timestamp! Timezones! Funky AJAX magic!
15:38:07  <peter1138> but it's tedious
15:42:32  <SpComb> tedious?
15:52:12  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: miham * r9687 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files):
15:52:12  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-04-20 17:51:25
15:52:12  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: romanian - 2 fixed by kneekoo (2)
15:52:12  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 9 fixed by Fishingsnow (9)
15:52:12  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: slovak - 2 fixed by lengyel (2)
15:52:14  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: slovenian - 2 fixed by Necrolyte (2)
15:52:14  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 2 changed by xbddc (2)
15:53:01  <Eddi|zuHause3> who needs all those languages?
15:54:18  <MiHaMiX> Eddi|zuHause3: a whole lot of users... if you're not interested, don't use it, but please don't make rude or offensive remarks
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16:17:18  <Sacro|Laptop> oh noes
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16:19:49  <Eddi|zuHause3> you killed him!
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16:23:07  <Wolf01> hello
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16:29:03  <Wolf01> hello lolman
16:29:13  <lolman> Ello Wolf01
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16:56:58  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: bjarni * r9688 /trunk/src/ (autoreplace_cmd.cpp engine.cpp engine.h): -Codechange: Created a function to get default cargo type for a cargo type
16:57:09  <peter1138> default cargo type for a cargo type?
16:57:29  <Bjarni> ...
16:57:31  <Bjarni> for engines
16:57:35  * Bjarni hides
16:57:58  <Bjarni> EngineIDs in fact
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16:58:44  <peter1138> :)
16:58:47  <peter1138> you did a me
16:58:51  <peter1138> and mucked up your commit message :D
16:59:31  <peter1138> now to try boekabart's patch
16:59:35  <hylje> :o
16:59:40  <hylje> link again to it
16:59:47  <hylje> i failed to fetch it
16:59:53  <Bjarni> what patch?
16:59:58  <peter1138> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=31576
16:59:58  <hylje> its a sikrit
17:00:03  <hylje> oh noes
17:00:05  <hylje> ty
17:06:51  <peter1138> hmm, not sure how this is supposed to work
17:07:53  <Progman> what does "dbg: [misc] NUM_SSD_STACK too small" mean?
17:08:00  <hylje> hm
17:08:05  <peter1138> too many signals
17:08:11  <peter1138> in a block
17:08:46  <Progman> ou, that could be the reason for a crash...
17:08:55  <hylje> hm
17:08:57  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: bjarni * r9689 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix: Clone vehicles will no longer refit for free
17:09:03  <hylje> how does the sealevel patch work
17:13:04  <Eddi|zuHause3> this time for real?
17:14:36  <Bjarni> I think so
17:14:53  <Bjarni> I didn't hack it. I added an estimated cost instead
17:15:12  <Bjarni> the previous time was a dirty hack
17:15:25  <Bjarni> (because I didn't do it :p )
17:15:41  <Eddi|zuHause3> :p
17:15:52  <hylje> seriously?
17:15:54  <Bjarni> basically I made use of a function I added after I wrote cloning
17:16:06  <Bjarni> and it would be really tricky to do without it
17:16:41  <Bjarni> the previous attempt hacked to accept that the estimated cost guess was wrong, which ended up with some not so nice side effects
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17:18:34  <Bjarni> well, with my luck, some insane newGRF can figure out how to break this, but it worked with everything I tested it with
17:19:36  <Bjarni> it's your job to figure out which one of the many grf sets that are insane enough to trigger such an event ;)
17:19:53  <Bjarni> (which would likely be an 'res == res2' assert)
17:20:20  <Bjarni> s/be/cause
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17:23:32  <dihedral> hello there
17:23:36  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9690 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: Update another couple of NewGRF TTDPatch flags
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17:23:56  <Bjarni> hi dihedral
17:24:01  <hylje> helo
17:24:46  <dihedral> rememer yesterday's topic (gradual and improved loading)?
17:24:52  <dihedral> *remember
17:24:58  <hylje> no
17:25:04  <dihedral> shame
17:25:35  <dihedral> well - we figured out that when 'full load' is not enabled in the order, multiple trains load at the same time
17:25:58  <dihedral> just thought i'd let you guys know :-)
17:26:12  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9691 /trunk/src/saveload.cpp: -Fix (r9683): Forgotten savegame bump...
17:26:18  <peter1138> dihedral: yeah, we knew that
17:26:25  <dihedral> :-(
17:26:27  <dihedral> shame
17:26:37  <Eddi|zuHause3> i did not know that...
17:26:38  <dihedral> no-fair :-P
17:26:43<