Config
Log for #openttd on 21st April 2007:
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00:32:35  <Belugas> segfault...
00:32:37  <Belugas> nice...
00:32:50  <Belugas> hard to find :S
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00:51:28  <Belugas> f*** it
00:52:01  <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't suppose that's gonna help a lot :)
00:53:40  <Belugas> nope, but it's better than yelling and waking the kiddo :)
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00:55:32  <Belugas> memory fault, somewhere after saving a game and exiting back to intro menu
00:56:05  <Belugas> looks like stuff that i forgot to free, or memory overriding
00:56:11  <Belugas> or something :(
00:56:22  <Belugas> newindustries are a bit frustrating
00:56:42  <Belugas> i guess i may have to go with plan b)
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01:22:55  <TheJosh> Hey I have a quick development question: How do you add a price to the prices class? I Added one, and added a default value,etc to economy.cpp, but now I get an assert when I start the game "openttd: /home/josh/svn/openttd-nightly/src/saveload.cpp:901: void SlLoadChunk(const ChunkHandler*): Assertion `SlGetOffs() == endoffs' failed."
01:38:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't know what a price class is, but you have to update the saveload code, to update old savegames on load
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01:39:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> old savegames especially include the title screen savegame
01:39:38  <Eddi|zuHause3> that is very old
01:41:47  <TheJosh> So if I add a price, I need to do a savegame bump?
01:42:01  <Eddi|zuHause3> obviously
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01:43:44  <TheJosh> i always feel bad that Im bumping the savegame. Its like im making a prefectly good format invalid just because I want to have user-creatable towns
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01:45:00  <DandMan> hello all
01:45:20  <TheJosh> Hello
01:45:28  <Eddi|zuHause3> brb
01:45:36  <DandMan> can anyone help with openwrt?
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01:49:00  <DandMan> does anyone know where i could get some help?
01:49:08  <DandMan> openwrt?
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01:49:41  <TheJosh> what is openwrt
01:51:15  <DandMan> it's the firmware in routers, ex. dd-wrt
01:52:59  <TheJosh> and you want to tell it to let openttd through?
01:53:17  <Eddi|zuHause> and why would we know something about that?
01:54:37  <DandMan> ok sorry
01:55:00  <TheJosh> i dont even know the port it uses, but i might beable to find out
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02:10:06  <glx> !openttd ports
02:10:12  <glx> !openttd port
02:10:12  <_42_> glx: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advsertise) communication (outbound)
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02:42:58  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: belugas * r9704 /trunk/src/table/build_industry.h: -Documentation: Add comments on industry data macro
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02:48:01  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: belugas * r9705 /trunk/src/ (industry_cmd.cpp table/industry_land.h):
02:48:01  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Merge some data arrays together, making a bit more logical units.
02:48:01  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: Calculate with a macro (for _industry_anim_offs_toys) the value of x, instead of doing it at run time.
02:48:01  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: And give some more descriptive names too...
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03:16:22  <DaleStan> Rubidium: You said "Link to RC2 forum post:" twice, instead of saying "Link to RC3 forum post:" the second time.
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06:21:05  <peter1138> gah
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07:17:19  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9706 /trunk/src/newgrf_town.cpp: -Codechange: Support NewGRF town var 40 'largertowns' variable properly.
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07:27:20  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9707 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_spritegroup.cpp newgrf_spritegroup.h): -Codechange: Add some support for NewGRF var 7D, temporary storage array.
07:28:23  <peter1138> he
07:28:27  <peter1138> Town index (41)
07:28:28  <peter1138> This returns the index of the town in the town array. This value is between 0 and 69 (inclusive)
07:28:33  <peter1138> i think not :D
07:31:16  <Rubidium> 0 and 65535 ;)
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08:11:56  <Wolf01> hello
08:24:10  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: KUDr * r9708 /branches/cpp_gui/ (168 files in 17 dirs): [cpp_gui] -Sync with trunk (r9633:9707)
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08:49:42  <Maedhros> morning
08:49:49  <Wolf01> morning
08:49:53  <hylje> mourning
08:50:45  <HMage> nom-nom
08:51:46  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: maedhros * r9709 /trunk/src/newgrf_town.cpp: -Fix (r9706): Larger towns use t->larger_towns, not the town index.
08:51:55  <Maedhros> sorry peter1138 ;)
08:51:58  <Wolf01> SB(_transparent_opt, TO_START, TO_END, ~0) <- what deos mean the ~0?
08:52:07  <Wolf01> *does
08:54:51  <Wolf01> (peter1138 will kill me)
08:55:24  <maad> Wolf01: it's bitwise NOT
08:55:39  <maad> so 0x00
08:55:47  <maad> so ~0x00 == 0xFF
08:56:11  <Wolf01> oh ok, it toggles all the bits
08:56:14  <maad> yes
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09:15:35  <ln-> maad: how do you know it's only 0xFF, not 0xFFFF, or 0xFFFFFFFF?
09:21:23  <Wolf01> in fact, that is a uint
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09:25:30  <ln-> yeah, so it is not 0xFF.
09:27:29  <Wolf01> what bother is that it works in the same manner
09:32:00  <HMage> it doesn't behave in the same manner
09:32:08  <HMage> it doesn't always behave in the same manner*
09:33:42  <Maedhros> in this case you're only using the first 6(?) bits of it, so it doesn't matter how big it is
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12:23:02  <peter1138> Wolf01: why will i kill you?
12:24:37  <peter1138> Maedhros: works better than before, either way ;-)
12:24:48  <Maedhros> yup :)
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12:50:21  * Maedhros resurrects his diagonal level crossings patch
12:54:14  <Wolf01> wonderful!
12:54:24  <Wolf01> [14:23:16] <peter1138> Wolf01: why will i kill you? <- because i'm always at work to extend the transparency options :D
12:56:42  <sai> hey guys, is it at all possible to make good profit with buses in 1930 in the desert and the biggest cities with 300 inhabitants?
12:58:02  <sai> my experience is, that there is no way at all to make money with buses or these transport trucks
12:58:40  <sai> it is a pitty somehow, because why should I ever start to build buses or transporters, when they dont make profit?!
13:00:02  <ln-> to help people move from one place to another.
13:00:30  <sai> yeah, ok, but I mean, you cannot do this very long when you run out of money
13:01:31  <sai> a bus costs 15,000, and until the bus made 15,000 of profit, it will take 15 years. until then you have other costs for the depts you made and the maintenance costs
13:02:25  <sai> ^debts
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13:05:44  <Eddi|zuHause> usually, an inner-city bus service will help grow the city
13:07:25  <sai> well, I have 2 buses now circulating between two cities in the desert
13:08:14  <peter1138> don't start in the desert :)
13:08:18  <sai> but the cities dont grow (probably because they need water and food), and the buses dont make profit
13:08:42  <sai> well, its not that I start the game
13:09:06  <Eddi|zuHause> start in the grassy areas
13:09:44  <sai> so, basically there is no sense to start in the desert in 1930, because it is just not possible to make profit with buses, right?
13:10:01  <Eddi|zuHause> right
13:10:21  <peter1138> as you said, you need to supply the towns with other stuff to make them grow
13:10:39  <sai> its just, it became boring starting too late (~1950 with trains) and to connect some coal mines with the power plant... after few years I am a millionaire
13:10:42  <Eddi|zuHause> and especially use busses mostly inner city. it's much more likely to generate profit
13:10:56  <sai> this is new to me, "inner city buses"...
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13:11:00  <sai> but I will try that, thanks
13:11:01  *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
13:19:41  <Eddi|zuHause> btw, i like the diagonal crossings, but they need some graphics that are compatible with the level crossings from the DBSet...
13:20:07  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truelight * r9710 /trunk/ (Makefile.src.in config.lib): -Add: added support for GCC 2.95. This makes MorphOS target alive again. With a big thanks to tokai and Rubidiumsvn status
13:20:23  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truelight * r9711 /trunk/src/stdafx.h: -Fix: don't include one system-header-file on MorphOS as it gives silly warnings and is unneeded for OpenTTD
13:20:31  <Eddi|zuHause> and they should invoke all parallel crossings simultaneously (also for normal crossings)
13:20:55  <Maedhros> Eddi|zuHause: it'll be possiblet to change the graphics via newgrf
13:21:02  <Eddi|zuHause> "svn status"? i don't suppose that belongs there
13:21:21  <Maedhros> activating all parallel crossings will be a lot more work though
13:22:02  <Eddi|zuHause> well, you have code for activating adjacent diagonal level crossings anyway
13:22:22  <Eddi|zuHause> just needs to be extended properly
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13:23:45  <Eddi|zuHause> this would also solve the problem when two trains are on the same diagonal crossing, where not all crossings get disabled properly
13:24:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know if you fixed that since the miniin patch
13:24:34  <Maedhros> i haven't touched it properly for quite a while
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13:43:42  <UndernotBuilder> which is the feature that is being worked now for trunk?
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13:51:06  <Eddi|zuHause> "the" feature??
13:51:57  <UndernotBuilder> I mean in what feature are working the devs now
13:52:10  <UndernotBuilder> or features :)
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13:53:21  <UndernotBuilder> and a question: is there a extended changelog to download?
13:53:22  <Eddi|zuHause> read the previous commit messages, you might get some estimation that way
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13:53:31  <Eddi|zuHause> "svn log"
13:54:27  <UndernotBuilder> -Feature: Increase cargo types from 12 to 32 and enable newcargo flag in NewGRF
13:54:27  <UndernotBuilder> loader.
13:54:34  <UndernotBuilder> is that a preparative to newcargos?
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13:54:41  <UndernotBuilder> !svn
13:58:27  <UndernotBuilder> how do I filter the results by features (I use <command> | find "Feature:" in m$ batchfiles but which is the equivalent in cygwin?
13:58:57  <Maedhros> svn log | grep 'Feature:'
13:59:16  <UndernotBuilder> thanks
13:59:56  <peter1138> rarely
14:00:05  <peter1138> some features sneak in under other terms
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14:48:55  <peter1138> whoever cleaned up the transparency gui broke the transmitter button, heh
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15:03:16  <valhallasw> lol
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15:13:21  <Wolf01> peter1138, for (uint i = TTW_WIDGET_START; i < TTW_WIDGET_END; i++) { is <= not < :)
15:14:09  <Wolf01> oh, maybe you are still using TTW_WIDGET_SIGN and TTW_WIDGET_STRUCTURES
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15:33:04  <neli> when can we have signals on bridges ?
15:33:36  * neli has a very long queue in front of a bridge where trains also need to climb
15:34:14  <Tefad> i think it's signals under bridges
15:34:25  * Tefad shrugs
15:34:39  <Eddi|zuHause> neli: when you program full flexible bridges
15:35:16  <Tefad> i usually build a little island or similar to build one signal on when there's a queue
15:35:45  <neli> Tefad: it's primarily the climb
15:36:07  <Eddi|zuHause> neli: partial solution: build 2 bridges next to each other, so the trains can choose the free bridge
15:36:10  <neli> maybe I can build two bridges so that two trains can climb paralelly
15:36:16  <Tefad> so build two bridges and distribute them with a presignal block?
15:36:29  <neli> right ;)
15:36:29  <Tefad> ding
15:36:48  <Tefad> man, it's been ages since i've played ottd
15:37:03  <neli> it's quite a complicated crossing already, amongst housing :-S
15:37:10  <neli> no free space
15:38:07  <Tefad> well done
15:38:11  <Tefad> tunnel it then?
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15:44:30  <neli> ok made something
15:44:40  <UndernotBuilder> Newcargos peter1138 Finished In Nightlies since r9638, 2007-04-15
15:44:46  <UndernotBuilder> is that right? :O
15:44:49  <neli> presignals do not 'look' at the tracks ?
15:45:23  <neli> just 'touchingness', not connectedness
15:46:03  <UndernotBuilder> !openttd revision 9638
15:46:17  <UndernotBuilder> how is it?
15:46:23  <UndernotBuilder> !openttd rev 9638
15:46:30  <UndernotBuilder> !version
15:47:19  <UndernotBuilder> !openttd 9638
15:48:34  <UndernotBuilder> I can't find it
15:48:46  <glx> !openttd commit 6938
15:48:49  <_42_> Commit by Darkvater :: r6938 /trunk/ (gfx.c misc_gui.c order_gui.c) (2006-10-24 23:11:40 UTC)
15:48:51  <_42_> -Codechange: Comments, typo, variable naming, whitespace, strecpy and simplification
15:48:53  <_42_>  of order_gui (only disable a single widget if not local player, all others aren't
15:48:55  <_42_>  visible anyways).
15:48:55  <glx> !openttd commit 9638
15:48:57  <_42_> Commit by peter1138 :: r9638 /trunk/src/ (6 files) (2007-04-15 16:20:35 UTC)
15:48:59  <glx> oops
15:48:59  <_42_> -Feature: Increase cargo types from 12 to 32 and enable newcargo flag in NewGRF loader.
15:49:59  <Eddi|zuHause> newcargo is finished, but there is no use for it without newindustries
15:50:23  <UndernotBuilder> for changing acceptance of current industries?
15:51:03  <UndernotBuilder> !openttd commit latest
15:51:07  <UndernotBuilder> :(
15:51:15  <glx> without latest :)
15:51:23  <UndernotBuilder> just a test
15:51:38  <UndernotBuilder> !openttd commit 10000
15:51:43  <UndernotBuilder> that neither
15:51:49  <glx> doesn't exist
15:52:05  <UndernotBuilder> I tested that
15:52:20  <UndernotBuilder> but is near :)
15:52:26  <glx> we have a smart bot :)
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16:00:12  <peter1138> so did i miss any commits?
16:00:16  <peter1138> hmm, no :(
16:00:33  * peter1138 sneezes loudly, instead
16:01:28  * mggrant saw one by peter1138 ;)
16:01:38  *** lugo [~lugo@pD95824A8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:02:14  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i opened my last savegame (1 month ago), and immediately got a headache: http://users.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Johannes Transporte,%2020.%20Okt%201925.png
16:02:25  <Eddi|zuHause> grr, missed a space
16:02:36  <Eddi|zuHause> http://users.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Johannes%20Transporte,%2020.%20Okt%201925.png
16:04:53  <neli> trains often seem to choose the 'wrong route' for me :(
16:05:09  <neli> they choose to go through a station pre-signal block
16:05:35  <neli> instead of the 'regular' non-station route
16:05:49  <Eddi|zuHause> wrong signalling, i suppose
16:05:53  <Eddi|zuHause> screenshot?
16:05:59  <Eddi|zuHause> pathfinder setting?
16:06:09  <Eddi|zuHause> you should enable YAPF for trains
16:06:57  <neli> I'm using YAPF
16:08:31  <neli> grrr deadlocked
16:09:03  <Eddi|zuHause> so, where's the screenshot?
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16:10:19  <neli> need to wait for it to happen
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16:12:48  <Maedhros> hmm. all i have to do now is fight with (de)activating both halves of the crossing at once
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16:15:29  <neli> Eddi|zuHause: http://neli.hopto.org:3980/~micha/screenshots/openttd/train-route.png
16:15:52  <neli> the light green train is now using the purple route, while it should have chosen the light pink/orange one
16:16:24  <neli> using pink will not need to wait for trains loading at chartfingbourne (pre-signal block there)
16:16:53  <peter1138> neli: probably a high tunnel penalty
16:17:20  <neli> hmm the tunnel is very short
16:17:45  <peter1138> hmm
16:17:59  <peter1138> i don't see a tunnel penalty anyway :o
16:18:24  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd say a red signal penalty
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16:18:44  <Eddi|zuHause> if the signal on the first right turn is red, the train will go straight on
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16:19:07  <Eddi|zuHause> solution would be, to remove the straight on route completely
16:19:25  <Eddi|zuHause> so the train has no choice anymore
16:19:46  <neli> but trains need to be able to go to the top station
16:19:54  <neli> (chartfingbourne, name not visible I see now)
16:20:49  <neli> oh you mean they can go down and up again, anyway
16:21:04  <Eddi|zuHause> but you could move the transition from the right track to the left station track 1 tile, so the train can not turn around there anymore
16:21:54  <Eddi|zuHause> could get signalling problems then, but your junction has strange signalling anyway :p
16:21:58  <neli> move 1 tile in what direction ?
16:22:53  <Eddi|zuHause> towards the bridge
16:23:25  <neli> then I also need to move the pre-signal
16:23:31  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
16:23:40  <neli> but there is a merge before the bridge
16:23:56  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, then make two entry signals
16:24:01  <neli> can make both those pre-signals
16:25:05  <Eddi|zuHause> what use has that 2 way signal behind the depot?
16:25:29  <neli> trains can go from depot onto bridge
16:26:22  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a weird junction :p
16:26:35  <neli> why ? :)
16:26:37  <Eddi|zuHause> lots of very sharp turns
16:27:44  <neli> I could move the depot back one tile, so those two sharp bends will be gone
16:27:49  <neli> if that makes you feel better ;)
16:27:52  <Eddi|zuHause> look at my screenshot, no diagonal section is shorter than 3 tiles
16:28:06  <Eddi|zuHause> ok, it's cheating, because it uses PBS, but...
16:28:27  <Tefad> that color is peach btw
16:30:06  <neli> Eddi|zuHause: my layouts tend to 'origanically grow' ;-)
16:30:20  <Eddi|zuHause> origamically? :p
16:30:45  <neli> what's the advantage of longer diagonal sections ?
16:31:26  <Eddi|zuHause> trains do not slow down that much
16:31:41  <neli> some trains are on the same track
16:31:50  <Eddi|zuHause> of course, that depends on "realistic acceleration"
16:31:57  <neli> s/track/'block'
16:32:09  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, PBS are cool :)
16:32:53  <neli> then you don't need as much bridges and tunnels and stuff either
16:33:30  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but that is not the point
16:33:41  <neli> does PBS work reliably ?
16:33:49  <Eddi|zuHause> no :)
16:34:01  <neli> then I missed the point a bit I'm afraid
16:34:02  <Eddi|zuHause> you have to be careful
16:34:35  <Eddi|zuHause> there are a few situations where they do not work, so you have to avoid those
16:34:43  <neli> trains crash into each other sometimes ?
16:35:34  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, especially if you a) force them through a signal, b) mess with the signal block and c) they reverse without proper exit signal
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16:36:37  <Eddi|zuHause> but like i said, the point was not about pbs, it was about longer diagonal sections
16:36:59  <Eddi|zuHause> which will naturally mean larger junctions, and you might be low on space...
16:37:17  <neli> my junctions tend to be quite cramped
16:37:23  <neli> growing cities etc.
16:37:31  <Eddi|zuHause> but you will have more places to put signals on
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16:38:25  <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. on your current junction you have tracks that are in the same signal block, but they do not really meet each other
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16:38:40  <neli> yes that's annoying
16:39:15  <neli> PBS would solve that, no ?
16:39:30  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, PBS should solve that
16:40:21  <Eddi|zuHause> bridges over everything might also help your junction
16:41:01  <Eddi|zuHause> only there is no version of OTTD that has both features :)
16:41:11  <Eddi|zuHause> but there is a bridge patch for MiniIN
16:42:27  <neli> your Kreuzstadt station has some tracks reversed direction ?
16:43:04  <Eddi|zuHause> each track can be entered from one side, and exited in both
16:43:17  <neli> oh, you allow trains to reverse at stations ?
16:43:18  <Eddi|zuHause> PBS does not support real 2-way stations
16:43:37  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
16:43:47  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a vital component of my network ;)
16:44:25  <Eddi|zuHause> a train can enter each second track
16:45:39  <Eddi|zuHause> http://users.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Johannes%20Transporte,%204.%20Sep%201925.png <- a less crowded station
16:46:17  <neli> you never have deadlock problems with these many junctions ?
16:47:39  <Eddi|zuHause> i do have deadlock problems, but more because of the long trains
16:48:45  <neli> if I don't build bridges to keep the 'main line' free, then exiting trains will get caught up with incoming ones
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16:49:44  <neli> I usually allow trains to arrive from two directions and leave in two directions
16:51:17  <Wolf01> [18:43:32] <Eddi|zuHause> PBS does not support real 2-way stations
16:51:18  <Wolf01> neither presignals, but they are still here
16:51:33  <Eddi|zuHause> btw. some of my trains are 15 tiles long
16:51:50  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: i did not say that was the reason why they were not included
16:51:59  <Eddi|zuHause> but that is the reasoning behind my signalling
16:54:26  <neli> http://neli.hopto.org:3980/~micha/screenshots/openttd/joh-trans-1925-okt-20.png
16:54:47  <neli> Eddi|zuHause: the things highlighted in light green I cannot allow, I have to build bridges or tunnels for those
16:55:11  <Eddi|zuHause> i know... that is the main reason why i use PBS
16:55:24  <Eddi|zuHause> or, one of the main reasons
16:55:28  <neli> I can imagine :)
16:55:45  <Eddi|zuHause> the other reason is intelligent presignalling on single-track sections
16:56:09  <Eddi|zuHause> btw, the lowest one is on a dead end station, you have those, too :)
16:56:26  <Thomas[NL]> Are PBS like signals used in real-life?
16:57:04  <Eddi|zuHause> they are supposed to come close to that, Thomas[NL]
16:57:40  <neli> oh, I couldn't see it was end-of-line
16:57:45  <Eddi|zuHause> you can check out the miniin and try them, but that version is not going to be in the main OTTD version
16:58:01  <Eddi|zuHause> no, of course you couldn't, that's why i told you :p
16:58:31  <neli> btw, what's the reason for the (c) disadvantage you listed above: 'they reverse without proper exit signal' ?
16:58:38  <neli> ok :)
16:58:52  <Eddi|zuHause> it's very technical
16:59:13  <Eddi|zuHause> if a train cannot find a way to an exit signal, it cannot reserve a path
16:59:23  <Eddi|zuHause> so when the train reverses (due to long waiting, for example)
16:59:29  <Eddi|zuHause> and it came through a one way signal
16:59:37  <Eddi|zuHause> it cannot reserve a path through that signal
16:59:46  <Eddi|zuHause> so it does not reserve a path at all
16:59:53  <ln-> http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u287/birne999999999/DSC00276.jpg
16:59:56  <Eddi|zuHause> so other trains view the track as empty
17:00:02  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a misdesign
17:00:08  <Eddi|zuHause> and the main rejection reason
17:00:26  <Eddi|zuHause> because it causes crashes without user interference
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17:01:23  <Eddi|zuHause> ln-: err... i had a mouse loooong before i have seen my first windows
17:02:02  <Eddi|zuHause> and that looks like an apple computer, btw :)
17:02:24  <neli> the picture has a mac lol
17:02:39  <ln-> indeed, and all other sources tend to say that it was apple that first introduced the mouse to consumers.
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17:02:58  <Thomas[NL]> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Mouse#Early_mice
17:03:04  <Maedhros> ah, but that's not what the caption says ;)
17:03:10  <neli> Eddi|zuHause: but shouldn't the train stop at the one-way signal then ?
17:03:51  <neli> or do other trains run into this signal block
17:03:52  <Eddi|zuHause> neli: the train will stop, but other trains do not know the train is there, and enter the block
17:04:24  <neli> when reversing it can at least reserve until the one-way signal ?
17:04:28  <neli> that should prevent a crash
17:04:52  <Eddi|zuHause> well, it should, but it was not designed that way
17:05:03  <Eddi|zuHause> reserved paths have to end on an exit signal
17:05:31  <neli> or, don't allow trains to reverse :)
17:05:59  <Eddi|zuHause> btw. the other main rejection reason was that the code is very ugly, and not maintainable, so nobody really tried to fix these problems
17:06:26  <Eddi|zuHause> there is a new PBS attempt planned, but it's gonna take some time to do properly
17:06:57  <Eddi|zuHause> and it is planned from scratch, not trying to fix this failed PBS attempt
17:07:10  <neli> right
17:07:24  <neli> does MiniIN use the same PBS code ?
17:07:43  <Eddi|zuHause> MiniIN uses the old PBS code
17:07:53  <Eddi|zuHause> with some minor fixes
17:11:55  <Eddi|zuHause> mainly conflicts with other patches, like realistic acceleration and diagonal crossings
17:14:14  <neli> diagonal crossings as in, crossings of roads and tracks ?
17:14:50  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
17:16:00  <Eddi|zuHause> remember, most patches in the MiniIN have some quirks
17:16:21  <Eddi|zuHause> and multiplayer is probably unplayable
17:16:28  <neli> do you have your own combination of sources, to be able to play PBS ?
17:16:45  <neli> is realistic acceleration a net speed gain for trains ?
17:16:56  <Eddi|zuHause> i have miniin, together with a personal patch for bridges over everything
17:17:35  <Eddi|zuHause> realistic acceleration adds support for tractive effort
17:18:14  <Eddi|zuHause> and some other acceleration changes in sharp curves and slopes
17:18:15  <neli> 'tractive effort' ?
17:18:27  <Maedhros> tractive effort is in trunk as well
17:18:49  <Maedhros> and possibly the 0.5 releases too, but i'm not sure about that
17:19:12  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure either...
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17:20:24  <Eddi|zuHause> apply www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/bridge_miniin.diff if you are feeling brave :)
17:21:38  <Eddi|zuHause> brb bbq
17:22:29  <graeme> do tilting trains get a speed boost on corners in openttd?
17:23:04  <Maedhros> no, not at the moment
17:24:12  <graeme> ahh thought not
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17:45:13  <Eddi|zuHause> http://users.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Johannes%20Transporte,%201.%20Sep%201924.png <- another big station
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18:05:09  *** UnderBuilder [~chatzilla@168.226.107.112] has joined #openttd
18:05:42  <UnderBuilder> now the request is.... newindustries :]
18:06:48  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
18:06:55  <Digitalfox[Home]> UnderBuilder: If we send a milion dollars to belugas, he will be fast ;)
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18:07:41  <UnderBuilder> but there is a question... is really complete newcargos? because it was released too fast :S
18:08:01  <UnderBuilder> or someone bribed peter1138?
18:08:17  <Digitalfox[Home]> Well for what i understand it's finished, but peter1138 will be the best person to answer that
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18:11:54  <TrueBrain> we lately get large bribes, so if you want something done, feel free to send one too :p :p :p
18:12:38  <Wolf01> i want a bride instead :P
18:12:49  <TrueBrain> 555-RUSSIA
18:12:54  <Wolf01> lol
18:13:08  <UnderBuilder> bride?
18:13:47  <peter1138> UnderBuilder: if it's 'too fast' because we've been working on it for a few months, then i don't know what 'too slow' would be
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18:22:16  <UnderBuilder> but newcargos (NOT newindustries) is fullworking or only partially?
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18:28:11  <Thomas[NL]> it says Finished in the roadmap so I presume it is
18:32:45  <neli> Eddi|zuHause: your cities seem kinda boring :P
18:32:51  <neli> quite repetitive buildings
18:33:14  <Eddi|zuHause> well, it's 1925, and only the standard buildings
18:33:17  <Eddi|zuHause> there are like 5 available
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18:37:42  <neli> in what year did you start ?
18:41:42  <Eddi|zuHause> 1920, but with daylength x32
18:42:03  <neli> aha is it configurable
18:42:07  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
18:42:16  <neli> a day takes only 2 seconds here or so
18:42:58  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, and with this setting, a day lasts as long as a month would in a normal game
18:43:29  <Eddi|zuHause> so 5 years time would actually be 60 years in a normal game
18:44:01  <Eddi|zuHause> that is wrong
18:44:23  <Eddi|zuHause> 5 years => 160 years
18:45:56  <neli> what's the speed in the original ttd ?
18:46:04  <neli> my feeling says it's faster in openttd
18:46:48  <Maedhros> 74 * 27 microseconds in TTD, 74 * 30 microseconds in openttd
18:46:49  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know, but there was a difference between TTD[P] and OTTD, i believe
18:47:59  <Eddi|zuHause> see, OTTD is actually slower :)
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18:49:44  <Wolf01> i wanted to make the daylength more configurable, without the "xMULTIPLIER" and with "## seconds|minutes|hours" and the last "daylength 1:1"
18:50:32  <Wolf01> but i abandoned the patch when i knew that a daylength will be in the gamebalanche
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18:52:57  <UnderBuilder> 	<Eddi|zuHause>	1920, but with daylength x32
18:53:02  <UnderBuilder> so you use mini in
18:53:22  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i said that before
18:54:39  <peter1138> no newhouses ;(
18:55:22  <Eddi|zuHause> you can't have everything :p
18:55:46  <peter1138> you can!
18:55:51  <peter1138> play ttdpatch :D
18:56:13  <Wolf01> no big maps!
18:56:25  <Eddi|zuHause> i can't customise that...
18:56:54  <Eddi|zuHause> and i can live without newhouses...
18:57:19  <Eddi|zuHause> i could use trams and passenger destinations though...
19:00:51  *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.159] has quit [Quit: Logout]
19:02:49  <peter1138> there's a fat old lady outside the saloon
19:03:30  <peter1138> laying out the credit cards she plays fortune
19:03:57  <michi_cc> Rubidium: here you go: 5ccba7e9c033f175addacaf97b49e7c0  http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/openttd-0.5.1-win64.zip
19:04:48  <michi_cc> Rubidium: I was successfully distracted by work from actually reading irc :)
19:10:02  <Maedhros> night all
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19:10:54  <Belugas> [14:21] <UnderBuilder> but newcargos (NOT newindustries) is fullworking or only partially?<----  fully working.  Just that right now, it does not do very much.
19:11:10  <Belugas> if you look at the sources, you will see
19:11:38  <Belugas> and on this happy note, i resume gardening
19:11:43  <Belugas> 21 celcius!
19:11:45  <Belugas> heavan :D
19:11:51  <Belugas> heaven
19:11:53  <peter1138> nice
19:12:08  <peter1138> i just did a little
19:12:15  <Belugas> also will be the beer afterward :D
19:12:20  <peter1138> exactly :D
19:12:27  <Belugas> enjoy, i am gone ;)
19:14:13  <UnderBuilder> I better test a grf that adds a new cargo but no a industry
19:15:25  <peter1138> ukrsi works
19:15:30  <peter1138> industries are ignored, of course
19:15:59  <peter1138> george's ecs stuff only works with the newindustry flag set (which is hardcoded to off at the moment)
19:16:19  <peter1138> michael blunck's newcargo grf works too
19:22:56  <peter1138> but it's not like i haven't tested it ;p
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19:30:38  <peter1138> and a voice called out
19:30:39  <peter1138> SHOOT
19:30:47  * Wolf01 dies
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19:43:53  <neli> if a station reaches out to two cities, will it get cargo from both ?
19:44:07  <peter1138> yes
19:44:32  <peter1138> stations get cargo from the area they cover, not from the city
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19:45:44  <neli> hmm, so 'max' passengers in a city is if you would cover the whole city ?
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19:46:03  <peter1138> can he fail, armed with his chocolate surprise?
19:46:21  <Rubidium> fail in what?
19:46:23  <peter1138> it's just the size of the city
19:47:25  <peter1138> Rubidium, sleeping with Juliet
19:48:11  <neli> so the houses outside the coverage area don't generate cargo for that station ?
19:48:18  <peter1138> neli: correct
19:48:54  <neli> so two stations in a large city, with their coverage area not overlapping will never compete for passengers ?
19:49:14  <peter1138> also correct
19:49:28  <neli> thanks that clears up
19:54:55  <Wolf01> and if you put 2 piece of the same station with the station walking in way to have the city into a big square where the station tiles are the non-adjacent corners you can gather passengers from the entire city
19:55:11  <peter1138> i don't belong here, said old tessa out loud
19:56:08  <neli> follow the track stupid presignal! :(
19:56:58  <Wolf01> they can't be stupid, they are mathematically correct
19:57:08  <Wolf01> so there is a user error :P
19:57:17  <neli> or the mathematical rules are wrong
19:57:54  <peter1138> signals only care about connections, not paths
20:00:58  <neli> moving a station one square to make space is NP hard
20:01:10  <neli> city rebuilds before I can put it back
20:01:38  <Wolf01> that's why exist the purchase land tool
20:01:45  <glx> use shortcuts
20:01:58  <neli> even shortcuts are too slow
20:02:27  <glx> destroy, pause, choose the tool, place the cursor, unpause, build
20:02:42  *** tsimpa [~tsimpa@217-159-163-177-dsl.trt.estpak.ee] has joined #openttd
20:02:49  <tsimpa> Hi!
20:03:04  <tsimpa> first time here
20:03:59  <Wolf01> hi
20:04:03  <Eddi|zuHause> better than no first time at all :p
20:05:34  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: come in on your second?
20:06:13  <Eddi|zuHause> err... no comment :p
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20:12:47  <dihedral> have a q
20:12:58  <dihedral> for curiosity
20:13:01  <dihedral> *out of
20:13:21  <dihedral> when trying to fund a water tower (tropical)
20:13:27  <dihedral> what are the requirements?
20:13:54  <tsimpa> enough money?
20:13:57  <Sacro> dihedral: 3 legs
20:14:01  <Sacro> otherwise it'll fall over
20:14:18  <dihedral> thanks - very helpful :-P
20:14:29  <dihedral> it sais "site unsuitable"
20:14:43  <glx> try on a house
20:14:56  <dihedral> wow
20:15:06  <dihedral> now that would be odd ... or not?
20:16:29  <tsimpa> how long are your typical rail lines?
20:16:49  <tsimpa> on a 512x512 map, is it good idea to transfer from one end to another?
20:19:18  <neli> the farther the more profit, usually
20:19:22  <peter1138> depends how you want to play :)
20:19:23  <neli> if sufficiently fast
20:21:00  <tsimpa> so depends on stage?
20:21:19  <tsimpa> i have monorails, fast as hell
20:21:31  <tsimpa> bad thing is, that there is not much production - gold
20:23:25  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9712 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Implement accepted cargo types and cargo acceptance (there is a difference) callbacks for newhouses.
20:26:42  <dihedral> i do transfer from one corner to the other
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20:27:30  <dihedral> well... not transfer - deliver would be a more suitable word
20:28:02  <dihedral> still think that it is odd having to click on a house to build a water tower...
20:29:29  <neli> do you have to build stations adjacent to have them being connected ?
20:29:55  <neli> or is there some way to combine two stations without them being adjacent
20:30:06  <Wolf01> there's a patch
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20:34:08  <Eddi|zuHause> or, you have to build station tiles in between, and remove them afterwards
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20:35:59  <Thomas[NL]> you have to remove one station first, if they are already build
20:47:37  <Wolf01> i'm thinking about activating the invisible trees with the transparency gui, what do you think about ctrl+click on the transparent tree widget?
20:48:37  <Wolf01> (it'll draw also a X on the widget if the invisible trees is enabled, waiting for a new button graphic)
20:50:30  <Wolf01> or maybe a red/green circle like the vehicle stopped/running "led"
20:51:30  <peter1138> that's a flag
20:52:18  <Wolf01> and where i've seen that?
20:52:31  <Wolf01> i don't remember
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20:53:13  <Wolf01> maybe ttdpatch newgrfs
20:53:57  <Wolf01> or the profit circle in vehicles list
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20:59:42  <neli> hehe factory is producing 1800 crates of goods/month
20:59:53  <neli> I'm not keeping up, how strange
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21:03:20  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, my factory is only producing 17000 per month
21:03:33  <Eddi|zuHause> (/32)
21:03:43  <Wolf01> my 198 crates per month
21:04:55  <Eddi|zuHause> and even worse, i am only transporting 32%
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21:06:41  <Wolf01> i'm transporting nothing, only delivering
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21:08:33  <neli> 4000 crates of goods on station :)
21:09:01  <tsimpa> neli are you estonian?
21:09:09  *** Ammller [~Ammler@adsl-62-167-58-202.adslplus.ch] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
21:09:19  <neli> no, why?
21:09:35  <tsimpa> because its an estonian word
21:10:01  <tsimpa> my oil refinery and printing words create 1000 crates of goods combined
21:10:20  <tsimpa> and food processor gives 2500 tons of wood
21:10:23  <tsimpa> food
21:12:40  <tsimpa> how does the train weight affect train speed?
21:13:20  <Eddi|zuHause> not speed, acceleration
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21:13:44  <Eddi|zuHause> F = m*a
21:14:18  <Eddi|zuHause> so, if F is constant, and m rises, a falls
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21:16:15  <Eddi|zuHause> that combined with F = P/v gives you an idea, how acceleration works
21:16:35  <Eddi|zuHause> P is the power of the engine, v is the current speed, m is the weight of the train
21:17:24  <tsimpa> i have master degree in physics
21:17:33  <tsimpa> but in game, the weight affect top speed
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21:18:02  <Eddi|zuHause> the weight only affects top speed if the power of the engine is low
21:18:14  <tsimpa> engine top speed is 336 kmh
21:18:22  <tsimpa> my trains go at ~200 kmh
21:18:32  <peter1138> then there is not enough power
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21:19:00  <tsimpa> maybe i have overloaded?
21:19:23  <Eddi|zuHause> try to add another engine
21:19:35  <tsimpa> train has 662 tons of paper payload, and its speed is 215
21:20:08  <Eddi|zuHause> speed is also affected by curves and slopes
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21:21:01  <tsimpa> its a straight line, and no acceleration
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21:24:46  <Eddi|zuHause> with low power, the train reaches its max speed, when the resulting force just suffices to balance out the friction
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21:24:48  <Wolf01> i still can't understand how to calculate the max weight for a train  from the max tractive effort
21:25:04  <tsimpa> http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Multiheaded_trains
21:25:20  <tsimpa> this seems to be solution, but where is the top speed algorithm :)
21:26:23  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd start searching at the TrainController function
21:26:36  <peter1138> top speed is just a limit
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21:28:35  <Eddi|zuHause> that picture looks wrong...
21:28:49  <peter1138> it is based on the ancient handling
21:28:50  <Thomas[NL]> the wiki says: Also, second engines can only subtract from the total speed, not add to it., shouldn't total speed be max speed?
21:28:52  <Eddi|zuHause> i thought multiheaded engines could not be separated anymore
21:29:45  <Rubidium> Thomas[NL]: what they mean is that the maximum speed is the lowest maximum speed of all wagons/engines
21:30:19  <Thomas[NL]> Ok, that's what I meant.
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21:36:32  <tsimpa> i found this from google
21:36:34  <tsimpa> http://www.ttdpatch.net/Manual/Realistic-Acceleration.html
21:36:56  <glx> that's for ttdp
21:37:11  <tsimpa> doesnt apply for openttd?
21:37:33  <Eddi|zuHause> it's probably implemented differently
21:37:50  <tsimpa> Fnet = TEeffective - c0 * W - c1 * W * v - c2 * v2 - Fincl
21:37:57  <glx> TE is not used in OpenTTD yet IIRC
21:38:22  <tsimpa> if the c0, c1 and c2 would be known, then the top speed could be calculated...
21:38:36  *** DJ_Mirage [~sexybigge@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: www.sexybiggetje.nl]
21:39:19  <tsimpa> so is there any article about ottd physics formulas?
21:39:21  <Wolf01> in fact you can't
21:39:31  <Wolf01> stupid mirc
21:41:02  <tsimpa> ?
21:41:50  <neli> F = P/v ?
21:42:42  <peter1138> glx: only since r7592
21:43:07  <Eddi|zuHause> !openttd commit 7592
21:43:10  <_42_> Commit by peter1138 :: r7592 /trunk/ (7 files in 3 dirs) (2006-12-28 13:18:07 UTC)
21:43:12  <_42_> -Feature: Add support for tractive effort to 'realistic' acceleration.
21:43:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i have only seen that physics patch that was floating around, and it was very underdocumented
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21:47:52  <Sacro> ZOMG peter1138!!!
21:48:10  <Sacro> oh... tis an old commit *hides*
21:48:40  <peter1138> yes, you hide
21:48:41  <Eddi|zuHause> :p
21:48:49  <peter1138> i shall carry on playing with nars :D
21:48:54  <Eddi|zuHause> i successfully got Sacro confused :p
21:48:57  <peter1138> with running sounds
21:49:42  <peter1138> hmm, i need more passenger carriages
21:49:51  <peter1138> or maybe another train
21:55:29  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:01:53  <neli> I'd say from a certain speed, air friction is a much larger than rolling resistance
22:02:00  <neli> so weight doesn't matter anymore as much
22:03:21  <Eddi|zuHause> air friction should only really matter with speeds > 200km/h
22:08:54  <tsimpa> i read from forum postings, that the answer should be in the sourcecode:
22:09:14  <glx> every answer are in the source :)
22:09:16  <tsimpa> line 87 "GetRealisticAcceleration" of train_cmd.c.
22:09:32  <tsimpa> can anyone say whats in there?
22:09:43  <peter1138> line 87 is blank :D
22:09:56  <tsimpa> well, its rather old reference :)
22:10:06  <glx> train_cmd.c is old
22:10:19  <glx> all files are .cpp now
22:10:24  <tsimpa>  Jul 05, 2004  :)
22:10:32  <peter1138> GetRealisticAcceleration is the old one, heh
22:10:38  <peter1138> which no longer exists
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22:10:58  <tsimpa> okay, whats the new formula of "realistic acceleration"?
22:11:17  <peter1138> it's at train_cmd.cpp:289
22:11:23  <Eddi|zuHause> like i said previously, i would start searching from TrainController
22:11:33  *** welterde [~welterde@trujillo.srv.pocoo.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:12:08  <Eddi|zuHause> the acceleration function is probably called directly from there
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22:13:02  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i have only connected like 15% of my map, and the game already chokes
22:13:08  <tsimpa> hmm, you suggest me downloading the source code :)
22:13:39  <peter1138> well it helps
22:13:59  <peter1138> this function is ~ 140 lines
22:14:02  <Eddi|zuHause> the source code used to be viewable from the website, but that was disabled due to performance issues, i believe
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22:40:53  * lolman wishes someone would update the PKGBUILD for openttd on Arch :-\
22:42:05  <lolman> I've just had to hack one together from the 0.5.0 one
22:44:35  <Sacro> lolman: who maintains it?
22:45:05  <lolman> Sacro, a guy called vegai
22:45:10  <Sacro> hmm
22:45:14  <Sacro> ill see if he is on freenode
22:45:23  <lolman> He is
22:45:31  <lolman> Dunno if he's away tho
22:45:44  <Sacro> lolman: i messaged him
22:45:54  <lolman> I saw
22:46:18  <Sacro> ooh your on freenode
22:46:22  <lolman> He's been idle for nearly 3 hours
22:46:35  <Sacro> hopefully he will get the message on his return
22:46:56  <lolman> :)
22:47:09  <lolman> My hack didn't work, data files went to the wrong place
22:47:21  <Sacro> whoo, im logged into AUR
22:47:28  <Sacro> now, shall i create a new pkgbui;d
22:47:45  <Sacro> i actually had my package for 0.4.0.1 on sourceforge
22:48:53  <lolman> Right, think I've got it now :)
22:49:07  <Sacro> sling us a pkgbuild when your done
22:49:19  <lolman> If it works sure :P
22:49:45  <Sacro> though i could do it myself
22:49:57  <lolman> lol
22:50:44  *** Thomas[NL] [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:50:54  <lolman> Hmm it's trying to use my home folder, that's why it won't work :)
22:51:22  <Sacro> for what?
22:51:31  <lolman> Data files :S
22:51:52  <Sacro> do you have a usb mouse?
22:52:04  <lolman> Yeah
22:52:24  <Sacro> can you do an "lsmod" and tell me what module it uses
22:52:52  <lolman> I'm using evdev for it :)
22:53:06  <lolman> (Has 7 buttons so standard mouse isn't up to it)
22:53:09  <Sacro> hmm
22:53:17  <Sacro> cos i can get my synaptics pad to work
22:53:20  <Sacro> but not a usb mouse
22:53:35  <lolman> What model mouse?
22:54:33  <Sacro> err
22:54:36  <Sacro> just a trust one
22:54:41  <lolman> Hmm
22:54:47  <Sacro> god this pkgbuild is HORRIBLE
22:54:58  <lolman> The openttd one? Tell me bout it
22:55:51  <Sacro> i think it may have previously installed to /opt/openttd/openttd
22:56:17  <Sacro> oh god... it did
22:56:48  <Sacro> lolman: radio.zernebok.com:8080/live.mp3.m3u
22:56:57  <Sacro> official openttd radio :p
22:57:19  <guru3> really?
22:57:21  <lolman> Heh
22:57:33  <Sacro> guru3: yeah, done by people in #tycoon on irc.quakenet.org
22:57:35  <Sacro> hosted by orudge
22:57:35  <guru3> what does the official openttd radio play?
22:57:41  <Sacro> guru3: depends whose djing
22:57:54  <guru3> it is ttd related right?
22:57:54  <lolman> uhm, nothing here
22:58:03  <Sacro> guru3: it can be yesy
22:58:33  <guru3> nope it's not atm -_-
22:58:41  <Sacro> http://radio.zernebok.com:8080/live.mp3
22:58:44  <Sacro> someone is on now
22:58:48  <Sacro> playing Weird Al
22:58:49  <guru3> it's vaugely computer related at least
22:58:58  <Sacro> oh yes
22:59:21  <Sacro> lolman: PKGBUILD rewrite in progress...
22:59:28  <lolman> :)
22:59:35  <guru3> guess i'll listen to this for a bit and go back to coding
23:00:10  <Sacro> guru3: its good music to work/code to
23:00:23  <guru3> i dunno, i'm not so thrilled atm
23:02:14  <Sacro> anyone here interested in SimSig?
23:04:18  <guru3> no clue what it is
23:05:23  <lolman> Hmm that station isn't working :-\
23:05:48  <glx> lolman: open it in vlc
23:06:20  <lolman> If I could be bothered installing vlc, sure! :P
23:06:50  <Sacro> heh
23:07:02  <Sacro> lolman: what are you opening it in?
23:07:15  <lolman> Sacro, tried xmms and banshee
23:07:22  <lolman> And yes I have the codecs :P
23:07:38  <glx> you need a player that can work on streams
23:07:45  <Sacro> lolman: should work in xxms
23:07:48  <Sacro> add as a url
23:07:54  <lolman> Have done
23:07:58  <lolman> vlc fails to play it too
23:08:20  <lolman> Aha, there it is :)
23:08:23  <lolman> Bout time
23:08:54  <lolman> Now, if only I could code...haha
23:09:26  <lolman> Still haven't been bothered to go learn
23:10:19  <Sacro> hehe
23:10:31  <lolman> I was thinking maybe learn python :P
23:11:35  <guru3> haha xD
23:12:12  <lolman> What's so funny bout that? LOL
23:12:55  <guru3> because syntax wise python is really different from everyother language
23:13:28  <lolman> Well what would you suggest as a beginners language?
23:13:59  <Sacro> brainfuck
23:14:01  <guru3> i'd suggest you don't learn programming for the sake of programming. find something you want to program, even if it's just a cheap card game and go from there
23:14:36  <lolman> guru3, I'm not on about _what_ to program, I'm about what to program stuff _in_
23:14:51  <guru3> i know, but if you go with that method it doesn't matter
23:15:02  <guru3> half of programming is know what to look for and what to put where
23:15:08  <guru3> if you can master that any language is a step away
23:15:21  <Sacro> grrm my laptop has lost a sticky foot
23:16:06  <guru3> damn i hate it when that happens
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23:16:38  <guru3> 'this song is a request of myself'
23:18:55  <Eddi|zuHause> the programming language really does not matter, the abstract features of most languages are the same, they just have different names
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23:19:52  <Eddi|zuHause> there are like 3 different approaches to programming languages: imperative, functional and object oriented
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23:20:23  <Eddi|zuHause> imperative is probably the easiest
23:21:34  <Eddi|zuHause> oh, and for beginners, pascal-like languages are often recommended
23:22:05  <Eddi|zuHause> C has too many obscure "features"
23:23:06  <guru3> listening to the stream? 'yell'
23:23:11  <guru3> what the hell? IT'S CRY
23:23:11  <Sacro> guru3: indeed...
23:23:16  <Sacro> he's a swede
23:23:19  <Sacro> he has no idea :p
23:23:23  <guru3> "It's my party and I'll cry if I want to"
23:23:48  <Sacro> orudge still owes me the pound i won
23:23:58  <guru3> basic knowledge to me tho -_-
23:24:05  <guru3> my dad always had oldies radio on in the car
23:24:37  <orudge> Sacro: TT meet
23:24:53  <Sacro> lolman! come to the tt-meet in june!
23:24:59  <guru3> June? Where?
23:25:03  <lolman> Sacro, what dates, and where?
23:25:07  <Sacro> guru3: june everywhere :p
23:25:13  <Sacro> june err... 30th i think
23:25:15  <Sacro> Birmingham
23:25:21  <guru3> damn, I'll be back in sweden then
23:25:26  <lolman> 30th? Brum? Hrm
23:26:00  <lolman> Aye, I'm up for that!
23:26:21  <guru3> i'm finally living in the uk, and the good shit happens when i'll be back home -_-
23:26:52  <lolman> I'll just need to get money together :)
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23:28:30  <Sacro> well its about £25 in train fares for me
23:29:32  <lolman> Feckin ell it's expensive for me
23:29:52  <Sacro> aren't you nearer?
23:29:55  <Sacro> leeds?
23:30:09  <lolman> Yeah...but it's like 40 quid :O
23:30:13  <Sacro> nooo
23:30:18  <Sacro> click the button for cheaper fares :)
23:30:26  <lolman> Cheapest I've found...
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23:31:39  <Sacro> nah, go on thetrainline.com
23:31:43  <Sacro> mine where £59
23:31:49  <Sacro> got em down to £12.50 x2 singles
23:32:13  <lolman> I looked, the dirt cheap singles aren't available
23:32:35  <lolman> Ah :)
23:32:41  * lolman reads the page properlt
23:32:53  <Sacro> hehe
23:32:54  <lolman> If I order the tickets day before I travel it'll be £18
23:33:05  <Sacro> yeah
23:33:09  <guru3> i've got a student card
23:33:18  <guru3> but i won't be in the damn country on the 30th
23:33:23  <lolman> Unfortunate
23:33:51  <guru3> yeah
23:34:19  <Sacro> guru3: shame that
23:34:21  <lolman> BTW Sacro, would it be better staying in Brum overnight on the day before so I don't have to get up at like 5am?
23:34:35  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm gonna fly over for 200EUR :p
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23:34:43  <guru3> wow, that's dedication
23:34:49  <Sacro> lolman: 5am?
23:34:52  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: really?
23:34:57  <lolman> Sacro, well, call it 6
23:35:00  <Eddi|zuHause> no :p
23:35:05  <Sacro> lolman: im leaving at 9
23:35:10  <Sacro> getting into brum for half 12
23:35:11  <guru3> ... .. ... ..
23:35:17  <Sacro> i checked flying
23:35:26  <lolman> I was thinking get to Brun for about 10 :P
23:35:27  <Sacro> but i go Humberside - Amsterdam - Dublin - Birmingham
23:35:44  <lolman> Brum*
23:35:48  <guru3> the stream is not broadcasting! D:
23:35:56  <Sacro> he finished :(
23:35:58  * Sacro could dj
23:36:05  <guru3> hour and a half train ride for me to biriming ham
23:36:25  <lolman> My shortest is 1:40
23:36:56  <guru3> would cost me like 18 pounds to get there
23:37:04  <lolman> One thing I'm worried about is not recognising anyone
23:37:10  <guru3> no use looking at it tho, know i can't make it :/
23:37:11  <Sacro> me, orudge
23:37:12  <Sacro> err...
23:38:00  * orudge shall be getting the train
23:38:59  <lolman> Sacro, I mean that when I get to the place I'll be thinking "who the hell are these people?"
23:39:05  <Sacro> lolman: so will i :)
23:39:40  <lolman> Might have to make a badge with my name on :D
23:39:52  <lolman> (IRC nick of course)
23:40:46  <Sacro> ooh, 1 listener
23:40:56  * lolman is said listenet
23:40:59  <lolman> listener*
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23:42:01  <Sacro> :D
23:42:32  <guru3> i was listening
23:42:38  <guru3> then it was looping the it's not playing thing
23:42:43  <guru3> so i stopped -_-
23:42:47  <Sacro> and now i am djing
23:42:59  <Eddi|zuHause> hm. a flight Leipzig - Frankfurt - Birmingham (and back) would cost 276EUR
23:43:28  <lolman> Ouch Eddi
23:44:01  <lolman> Sacro, how's that PKGBUILD coming along?
23:44:23  <Sacro> lolman: hmm, im rewriting from scratch
23:44:31  <lolman> Ack
23:44:44  <Eddi|zuHause> but flying friday and sunday would probably be the most expensive days :p
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23:44:59  <lolman> Probably Eddi :P
23:46:03  <Sacro> it configures...
23:46:04  <Sacro> does it make
23:46:26  <Sacro> grr :(
23:46:28  <lolman> Sacro, the hack I had compiled it...it just didn't put stuff in the right place
23:46:36  <Sacro> lolman: this one does things properley
23:46:41  <Sacro> then i shall submit to AUE
23:46:41  <lolman> :D
23:46:43  <Sacro> *AUR
23:47:00  <Sacro> hm
23:47:06  <Sacro> i wonder where you define MAKEOPTS
23:48:14  * lolman swigs Dandelion and Burdock while Sacro finishes the PKGBUILD
23:49:03  <Sacro> hmm
23:49:05  <Sacro> need /usr/bin
23:49:18  <Sacro> /usr/share/{docs,lang}
23:50:14  <Eddi|zuHause> wtf? 1300EUR? are they flying via new york??
23:50:29  <lolman> LOL
23:50:39  <lolman> That's a bit over the odds
23:50:49  <lolman> I could get to Australia and back on that
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23:52:51  <Sacro> lolman: testing...
23:52:56  <Eddi|zuHause> hm. no... it's the same route... Leipzig - Frankfurt - Birmingham
23:53:14  <Eddi|zuHause> just the 2nd flight is with british airways, instead of lufthansa
23:53:31  <lolman> Sacro, here's hoping
23:53:48  <Sacro> lolman: it builds fine, its just remembering what stuff to put into the package after
23:53:56  <lolman> Sacro, aah
23:54:01  <Sacro> openttd, data/*, lang/*.lng
23:54:04  <Sacro> docs/*
23:54:08  <Eddi|zuHause> it gets better... 3000EUR
23:54:18  <lolman> Eddi|zuHause, first class?
23:54:51  <Eddi|zuHause> "Economy", whatever that is
23:54:52  <lolman> Sacro, nice music btw
23:55:04  <lolman> Eddi|zuHause, economy and it's 3k? WTF
23:55:47  <Eddi|zuHause> Leipzig - Frankfurt - Zurich - Birmingham, with SWISS
23:55:48  <Sacro> lolman: binary goes... but nothing else
23:55:52  <lolman> Sacro, ack
23:56:26  <lolman> Eddi|zuHause, still shouldn't be 3k
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23:58:47  <Sacro> lolman: testing in progress
23:58:54  <lolman> Sacro, okies :)
23:59:00  <Sacro> failed :(
23:59:11  <lolman> Damn :(
23:59:23  <lolman> Send what you have now?
23:59:43  <Sacro> not much there really
23:59:46  <lolman> Maybe I can hack it together :P
23:59:47  <Sacro> just a ./configure && make
23:59:53  <Sacro> i think it needs some sed magic

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