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Log for #openttd on 13th May 2007:
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00:11:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r9830 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix(r9779) : Let the town expand and build new houses along the roads of the users, even in case of "No Road" layout (skiddl13)
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03:07:43  <kbrooks> ttyl bed
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03:11:41  <kbrooks> byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee going off now
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06:49:54  <DaleStan> Website ops: (TrueBrain?) nightlies.php still tries to link to http://svn.openttd.org/<...>, but that was taken down a long time ago.
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07:33:21  <Wolf01> hello
07:37:56  <peter1138> "Is there any way the Copy & Paste patch could be implemented as a newGRF?"
07:37:59  <peter1138> hmm
07:41:01  <Ailure> sounds like a typical question one of my classmates would make.
07:42:23  <Wolf01> but would be cool :D
07:44:07  <Wolf01> but the oddest thing i've seen is the "no exe in the nightlies"...
07:44:48  <Wolf01> i hope he didn't clicked on the first package he found...
07:44:56  <Ailure> I think he did
07:45:03  <Ailure> I mean hell
07:45:05  <Ailure> same classmate
07:45:08  <Ailure> and tortoiseSVN
07:45:10  <Ailure> it dosen' twork
07:45:12  <Ailure> *checks*
07:45:18  <Ailure> ...he had downloaded the source package.
07:45:38  <Ailure> We gone through a few programming courses by now so ngghh
07:45:43  <Ailure> he probably quits soon xD
07:45:55  <Ailure> dropping out
07:49:46  <Ailure> people say that there's no stupid questions but... he manages to prove that wrong. :<
07:51:49  <Wolf01> http://www.tt-forums.net//files/fast_3_way_225.jpg what does change between the two junctions? (something else than 2 tiles raised)
07:52:33  <Wolf01> A:"poor signalling", B:"the best"... they are the same
07:55:07  <Ailure> I belive A would cause slowdown though
07:56:35  <Ailure> at least for the railway just below the sign
07:56:53  <Ailure> hmm then
07:59:16  <hylje> upper has a slow curve
07:59:43  <hylje> a diagonal rail going up or down a hill is slow
07:59:50  <Ailure> yeah that's what I thought on
08:00:00  <hylje> fo sho
08:00:06  <Ailure> The game dosen't like
08:00:13  <Ailure> when the trains 'bends' in all possible ways
08:00:16  <Ailure> or rather
08:00:20  <Ailure> the acceleration model dosen't
08:00:25  <hylje> several bends in the same window
08:00:51  <hylje> from how it works it takesthat window from a % of the train length
08:01:38  <Ailure> I noticed that train with really high HP
08:01:46  <Ailure> such as Eurostar in the UKRS
08:02:03  <Ailure> can do sharp turns but in a really weird way
08:02:07  <hylje> _p
08:02:09  <Ailure> the speed is constantly speeding up and down
08:02:09  <hylje> :o
08:02:31  <Ailure> looks rather funny
08:02:34  <hylje> shinkansen railset trains can do 2tile turns too
08:02:38  <hylje> its rather silly
08:02:46  <Ailure> yeah
08:02:56  <Ailure> it seems like high HP trains tend to break the sharp turn rule
08:03:04  <Ailure> or at least temponarily
08:03:09  <Ailure> they sitll get a slowdown, but not a heavy one
08:04:44  <Ailure> I should play with it again
08:04:53  <Ailure> dunno if there's been any change to the acceleration model
08:05:00  <Ailure> there were some critism about it I heard
08:05:37  <Ailure> well heh, it's a bit generous when it comes to acceleration
08:06:23  <Ailure> I rarely find a use for some high HP trains unless I increase the freight multiplier
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08:06:53  <hylje> well
08:06:55  <hylje> long trains
08:06:55  <Ailure> and even then, even heavy but not so powerful trains can at least reach 70-80 km/h with no problems unless you make it really extreme
08:07:06  <hylje> make that FAST long trains
08:07:15  <Ailure> heh
08:07:19  <Ailure> thoose are fun to make
08:07:24  <Ailure> 10 tiles long trains
08:07:29  <hylje> 20 tile maglev
08:07:34  <hylje> 640km/h
08:07:34  <Ailure> heh
08:07:40  <Ailure> my limit goes at ten tiles
08:07:43  <Ailure> mostly due to gamescale
08:08:32  <Ailure> still hmm
08:09:10  <Ailure> heh
08:09:18  <Ailure> the default maglev uusally have no problems reaching max speed
08:09:23  <Ailure> even with lots of heavy cargo
08:09:46  <hylje> then they go up one(1) tile hill
08:10:10  <Ailure> with what acceleration model?
08:10:14  <Ailure> the old one is xD
08:10:16  <Ailure> with slopes
08:10:34  <Ailure> even the fastest trains went down to 30 km/h with even simple slopes
08:10:40  <hylje> yes
08:11:03  <Ailure> it was painful watching your 640 km/h maglev train
08:11:09  <Ailure> climbing a mountain at 30 km/h
08:11:30  <hylje> with large HP and improved accel
08:11:39  <hylje> trains could climb massive cliffs just fine
08:11:48  <hylje> at nearly full speed, no less.
08:13:10  <Ailure> yeah
08:13:28  <Ailure> I rarely see maglev trains slowing down climbing them
08:13:47  <Ailure> I do see railway trains doing that if it's a really steep climb :p
08:13:56  <Ailure> steep climb would be relativly and depend on the hp/weight of train
08:14:40  <Ailure> http://194.47.44.201/openTTD/stairs.png
08:14:51  <Ailure> I found myself doing this in some game XD
08:14:57  <Ailure> although in a more discrete way
08:14:59  <hylje> wtf, stair
08:15:00  <hylje> s
08:15:13  <Ailure> slope, flat land, slope, flat land
08:15:29  <Ailure> with some really heavy trains you need even more flat land inbetween the slopes to maintain full speed
08:15:42  <Ailure> or near full speed
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08:16:05  <Ailure> and even then I try to keep terraforming ot a minium nowadays :p
08:16:21  <Ailure> I was screwing around in that game, which is why I made a mountain in the middle of nowhere
08:16:30  <Wolf01> when 1x2 slopes?
08:17:19  <Ailure> heh
08:17:42  <Ailure> sometimes I don't play with the slopes until after I built a line
08:18:19  <Ailure> to avoid unecessary terraforming :p
08:18:20  <peter1138> hairpins :D
08:18:25  <peter1138> less terraforming
08:18:26  <Wolf01> no i meant, now we have 45° slopes, we need 22.5° :D
08:18:40  <peter1138> they're distinctly not 4 degrees
08:18:44  <peter1138> or 45
08:18:58  <Ailure> how many degress are the slopes though?
08:19:07  <Ailure> It's kinda hard to tell from the isometric view
08:19:37  <Ailure> 45 degrees seems a bit much though
08:19:54  <Wolf01> they should be 30
08:20:08  <peter1138> they're 1:2
08:20:15  <Ailure> hmm
08:20:18  <peter1138> 16 units along a tile and 8 units up
08:20:18  <Ailure> yeah
08:20:36  <peter1138> dunno what that is in degrees ;p
08:20:41  <Wolf01> ok, they are already 22.5
08:20:48  <Ailure> half of 45
08:20:50  <Wolf01> so we need 11.25
08:20:51  <Ailure> ...which is 22.5
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08:21:00  <Ailure> as wolf pointed out
08:21:01  <Ailure> heh
08:21:02  <Wolf01> always too much for a train
08:21:11  <peter1138> is it simply helf?
08:21:23  <Ailure> What else would it be?
08:21:26  <hylje> are you implying we should Has a mesh-based terrain?
08:21:31  <Wolf01> is mathematic...
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08:21:47  <Wolf01> draw a line, 1:1 is 45°
08:21:53  <peter1138> yes, 1:1 is 45
08:22:04  <Ailure> 90 degree cliffs like seen in the Transport Tycoon 2 engine would be nice :p
08:22:20  <Ailure> Well, I already seen 90 degree stuff in openTTD
08:22:20  <hylje> oh yes
08:22:21  <Ailure> :D
08:22:27  <Ailure> halls of infinite mirrors glitching
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08:22:35  <hylje> screenshot plz
08:22:48  <peter1138> you mean locomotion? :p
08:22:51  <Ailure> that waterlevel patch
08:23:01  <Ailure> water can be of a certain height
08:23:23  <Ailure> anyway, whatever is below the water
08:23:26  <Ailure> when something is flooding
08:23:38  <Ailure> gives the halls of mirros effect
08:23:44  <Ailure> of doom fame
08:23:53  <Ailure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_of_mirrors_effect
08:24:12  <Ailure> [10:23] <peter1138> you mean locomotion? :p
08:24:19  <Ailure> No, Transport Tycoon 2 ;)
08:24:31  <Ailure> I was jokingly referring to all games using the engine
08:24:35  <Ailure> from Rollercoaster tycoon
08:24:46  <Ailure> which apparently orginally was going to be for a Transport Tycoon Sequel
08:25:30  <hylje> oh, wow
08:26:35  <peter1138> deg = arctan(ratio)
08:26:41  <Wolf01> i love that terrain engine... but i hate the game (lomo) because they should have learned from previous errors, and there are many glitches and bugs instead, like the odd transparency (half of the screen)
08:26:58  <Ailure> Rollercoaster terrain
08:27:02  <Ailure> made me wish it was in 3D actually
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08:27:17  <Ailure> Digging a really deep hole could be a pain in the ass sometimes
08:27:23  <hylje> :p
08:27:34  <Wolf01> that's true
08:27:41  <hylje> bottomless pits
08:27:41  <Ailure> and sometimes it didn't matter whatever rotation you look from
08:27:49  <Ailure> or whatever things you made transparents
08:27:58  <Ailure> some things were hidden from your view if you made stuff cramped
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08:28:14  <Ailure> I actually like 3D simulation games for their flexibility xD
08:28:22  <peter1138> so i'm right ;p
08:28:25  <peter1138> 1:1 is 45 deg
08:28:40  <peter1138> 1:2 is 26.5650512 deg
08:28:52  <Wolf01> i still can't understand why they don't made the terraform tool like rollercoaster, where you had the possibility to raise cliffs when raising a single tile, like TTD
08:29:13  <Ailure> It would made life easier yes
08:29:16  <peter1138> so you want 1:4 which is 14.0362435 degrees....
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08:29:43  <Ailure> I got annoyed when I had to do manaul work on something that was easy to do in TTD
08:30:13  <Wolf01> trains need 4 degrees (if i'm not wrong), with more you need racks to climb an hill
08:30:25  <Ailure> that regarding 3D thread is intresting though
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08:30:26  <hylje> peter1138! use foundations to allow silly cliffs!
08:30:29  <Ailure> lots of misconceptions about 3D
08:30:35  <Ailure> It's like
08:30:38  <Ailure> 3D in games is a curse
08:30:41  <Ailure> it makes games confusing
08:30:47  <peter1138> needs "new map array" !
08:30:48  <Ailure> and that itmakes gameplay worse?
08:31:06  <Ailure> New map array
08:31:16  <hylje> 3d is harder to navigate in than plain 2d
08:31:23  <Ailure> That's probably the holy grail of openTTD programming
08:31:23  <Ailure> :p
08:31:28  <peter1138> ok, it needs more bits in the map array, heh
08:31:29  <hylje> hence most RTS n other stuff is 2d
08:31:35  <peter1138> Ailure: it's a joke, now ;)
08:31:37  <Ailure> harder to navigate? heh
08:31:41  <hylje> well
08:31:44  <hylje> dimensions+1
08:31:48  <Wolf01> ten thousand of years you are talking of new map array, and we haven't seen something about it ;)
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08:32:03  <Ailure> Most 3D games solve the navigation problems
08:32:21  <Ailure> by hiding away the camera controls unless they are needed for some reason
08:32:30  <Ailure> most 3D rts games does this
08:32:44  <Ailure> but it's still possible to rotate around if you need to
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08:33:00  <Ailure> The sims 2 is nice with it's camera
08:33:07  <Ailure> it have a free flying mode that is fun to play with
08:34:04  <hylje> and to be frank
08:34:09  <hylje> most 3d implementations suck
08:34:11  <peter1138> Wolf01: we've got one... it's literally just another array ;p
08:34:31  <Ailure> but some are good
08:34:45  <Ailure> There's 2D games that sucks too
08:35:15  <Ailure> As long you don't go 3D for the sake of going 3D it usually goes well
08:35:15  <Wolf01> one of my friends told me that ttd sucks because is 2D
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08:35:21  <Wolf01> i killed him
08:35:29  <Ailure> haha
08:35:32  <hylje> murderer
08:35:48  <Ailure> Well some people got the idea that 3D game means that it automatically sucks
08:35:56  <Ailure> and the other way around too :p
08:36:33  <Ailure> Sometimes you can mix too
08:36:57  <Ailure> Sometimes it's better to use 3D models than storing 234324234 sprites of a object in various rotations
08:37:14  <Ailure> It dosen't have to be polygons, it can be voxels too. :)
08:37:24  <hylje> usually 8 rotations are enough
08:37:29  <Ailure> Pixel arts should like voxels ;P
08:37:40  <Ailure> *artists
08:37:43  <peter1138> not really
08:37:47  <hylje> voxels were used in tiberian sun
08:37:56  <hylje> for a bunch of tanks
08:37:59  <Ailure> yeah
08:38:03  <Wolf01> what i like of 3D games, is that they allow (most of the times) to place buildings and other things in every direction, what i don't like of them is the same thing, because you can mess up the base by mistaking an angle, like in C&C generals/tiberium wars.. with 2D you were able to place buildings in every free tile, if sufficient space
08:38:04  <peter1138> they're don't give you the same level of detail as plain 2d pixel images...
08:38:16  <peter1138> and voxels are a bitch for 3d accelerators, heh
08:38:24  <Ailure> well sadly
08:38:33  <Ailure> 3D acceleration technology
08:38:42  <Ailure> dosen't exactly focus on Voxels
08:38:43  <hylje> Wolf01: yes if the game doesnt enforce building on tiles
08:38:51  <Ailure> Voxels are really neat
08:38:53  <hylje> Wolf01: but if they do the situation is the same as with 2d
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08:39:34  <Ailure> It's funny too
08:39:40  <Ailure> someoen made a 3D model in that 3D thread
08:39:47  <Ailure> but if it wasn't for the outlines of a box
08:39:58  <Ailure> I could easily have confused it for a voxelmodel
08:40:01  <hylje> :o
08:40:02  <Wolf01> with 2D was really clear where you are allowed to build and where not, with 3D you should take count also of the degree of the terrain
08:40:17  <hylje> Wolf01: usually in rtses buildings have foundations
08:40:27  <hylje> Wolf01: allowing them to build in most terrain
08:40:59  <Wolf01> not always, try to build 4 power plants in a slope...
08:41:00  <Ailure> Simcity4 did that
08:41:18  <Ailure> as long you don't try to build stuff on extreme slopes
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08:41:19  <Ailure> it usally works
08:41:24  <hylje> sc4 had silly foundations
08:41:27  <Ailure> some special buildings have a tendancy to flat out stuff
08:41:29  <Ailure> such as power plants
08:41:32  <hylje> usually extreme slopes worked just fine
08:41:35  <Desolator> hello
08:41:38  <Wolf01> hi
08:41:39  <Ailure> well heh
08:41:46  <Ailure> foundations tend to look odd with extreme slopes
08:41:49  <Ailure> I had small houses
08:41:54  <Ailure> with really really tall foundations
08:41:57  <hylje> yes
08:41:58  <Ailure> in some screwy places
08:42:10  <Ailure> but it usually looks fine
08:42:20  <hylje> the passively built buildings did not terraform
08:42:21  <Desolator> I'm thinking of making a new MiniIN
08:42:30  <Ailure> TTD's foundations looks odd in some situations as well
08:42:30  <Wolf01> good luck
08:42:32  <hylje> but made foundations all over the place
08:43:09  <Ailure> but heh
08:43:15  <Ailure> with some extrene foundations
08:43:26  <Ailure> it probably would be a bad idea to open the wrong door on some buildings
08:43:27  <Ailure> :p
08:43:53  <Ailure> hmm
08:44:02  <Ailure> buildings do terraform slightly when they are built though
08:44:05  <Ailure> but only if they can
08:44:46  <Ailure> The extreme foundations usually happens in tight places now I think on it
08:45:10  <Ailure> where there's not much space for terraformin, or where proper terraforming would change too much
08:48:35  <Ailure> soon noon
08:48:49  <Ailure> I hadn't slept over the night
08:48:53  <Ailure> so I should do that soon lol
08:49:29  <hylje> :o
08:49:57  <hylje> i used to have my highways in ditches
08:50:14  <hylje> and have buildings and park around them
08:50:59  <Ailure> ah
08:51:09  <Ailure> heh I should play Simcity4 again
08:51:12  <Ailure> with Rush hour of course
08:51:26  <Ailure> It's a good expansion pack xD
08:51:38  <Ailure> but to be honest, it have features that should ben there from the beginning
08:51:48  <Ailure> such as the traffic query tool that shows the paths people take in the city
08:52:17  <Ailure> Simcity4 always had a advanced traffic algorithm, but you weren't always aware of what was going on expect for traffic congestion :/
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08:56:00  <Wolf01> one feature that should been there from the beginning should be "show catchement areas" for existent stations
08:56:51  <Wolf01> i'm working on it, with immense difficulty, but i have something working (thanks to frostregen)
08:57:37  <Ailure> heh how station catchment work is kinda broken though
08:58:08  <Ailure> but yeah, that would be useful
08:59:09  <Wolf01> station catchement is a pain with non-uniform stations
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09:03:00  <Ailure> and the broken station handling is more noticeable iwth non-unform stations too
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09:05:30  <kaan> goodmorning
09:06:11  <Wolf01> morning
09:07:04  <Desolator> morning kaan
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09:12:31  <Wolf01> when will newindustries be ready, it will allow also industries on slopes?
09:12:41  *** Tron_ is now known as Tron
09:13:15  <Rubidium> my calculations are summer 2008 ;) (yay for statistics)
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10:15:42  <Desolator> what are the nightlies compiled with?
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10:17:15  <Desolator> MinGW?
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10:18:16  <peter1138> gcc
10:18:35  <Desolator> and MinGW doesn't use gcc?
10:25:51  <Rubidium> mingw assumes that all nightlies are windows binaries and that the nightlies are compiled on Windows
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10:26:17  <Rubidium> which both incorrect assumptions
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10:26:23  <Rubidium> +are
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11:04:37  <peter1138> gah
11:04:40  <peter1138> stupid nvidia
11:06:06  <peter1138> resolution changing fucks up :/
11:08:23  <peter1138> works at 24 or 16 bit, but not 15 or 8
11:08:31  <hylje> :o
11:08:39  <Wolf01> 15 O_O
11:08:58  <hylje> 5 bits per color
11:09:32  <Wolf01> 125 colors
11:09:54  <Wolf01> is an odd resolution
11:10:39  <boekabart> !? how did you come up with 125 colors/
11:10:52  <boekabart> 32 x 32 x 32 = eh, more.
11:10:53  <Rubidium> 5*5*5 I guess
11:11:13  <Rubidium> 2^15 = 32768...
11:11:19  <boekabart> see, more :)
11:11:54  <boekabart> actually usually they give one color (green i think) the extra bit. since the eye is most sensitive to green.
11:12:00  <Wolf01> oh right... 2^15, not 5^3
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11:15:39  <peter1138> boekabart: that's 16 bpp
11:16:14  <peter1138> anyway, the weird thing is, converting from 8 to 16 bpp instead of 8 to 32 bpp is a lot quicker for me
11:16:58  <peter1138> shame X doesn't allow colour depth changing...
11:18:11  <peter1138> or just hardware 8->32bpp conversion
11:18:16  <boekabart> half the memory bandwidth is the only diff, right
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11:18:18  <peter1138> it allows it for opengl textures...
11:18:34  <peter1138> boekabart: yeah, suppose that's right
11:19:22  <mikk36> any of u watch MD House ?
11:20:17  <Wolf01> i watched it
11:20:29  <mikk36> up to which episode ?
11:20:43  <Wolf01> all the first and second series
11:20:48  <mikk36> ah great :)
11:20:57  <mikk36> i just watched S02E24
11:21:04  <mikk36> last episode of 2nd season
11:21:15  <mikk36> that's one sick part :P
11:21:31  <Wolf01> uhm, i don't remember it
11:21:44  <mikk36> the one where 95% of the episode is a dream
11:21:48  <mikk36> where house gets shot
11:21:53  <Wolf01> oh yes
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11:22:22  <Wolf01> then i watched also half of the third season
11:22:26  <mikk36> at the end where he cut the tonque patient open... i was like... what the f***
11:22:58  <mikk36> i have almost all episodes on my hdd
11:23:04  <Wolf01> :)
11:23:04  <mikk36> only 5-6 missing from the end
11:23:50  <mikk36> been watching it for some weeks now
11:24:00  <mikk36> and today is my last day as a free man again :P
11:24:08  <mikk36> going back to work (got a new job)
11:25:18  <Wolf01> i'm looking for a new job too
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12:12:19  <mikk36> missing 4 episodes DL'ing :)
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12:46:17  <xyz> hi
12:46:29  <xyz> is there a server with "hard difficulty"?
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12:58:58  <elmex> hm
12:59:18  <elmex> the difficulties are no real difference either
12:59:30  <elmex> only that it takes longer with hard to earn enough money
13:00:15  <elmex> hm
13:00:27  <elmex> lately there have been not many interesting games on the servers :-/
13:00:28  <hylje> low loan
13:00:38  <elmex> well, with low loan you just need longer
13:00:50  <elmex> and with multiplayer that sucks because no fast-forward :)
13:01:11  <hylje> with low loan you must get profitable with that £100k
13:01:17  <elmex> hm, i'm used to see more network-structure games on the servers grmbl...
13:01:37  <elmex> it's nto very hard to get profitable
13:02:12  <elmex> the fchallenge with multiplayer is: be as profitable as others
13:02:14  <hylje> but profitable enough
13:03:11  <elmex> yes
13:03:40  <elmex> it will make entrance into a game for people harder that join later
13:04:06  <elmex> but that was always hard anyway
13:05:03  <elmex> i mean, once you got a profitable route all you need it to wait for the money to come in and build a second train or route and after that you quickly paid your loan and start expanding further
13:06:17  <elmex> hard difficulty would be interesting if the economy would work differntly. eg. second level industries have a upper limit of cargo they accept and such
13:06:35  <elmex> difficulties that actually have influence on your gameplay
13:07:29  <elmex> having servers where trains don't go 90degree or with "realisic" acceleration is already interesting as you hav to adapt your routes to that
13:08:14  <elmex> but maybe i'm biased by my affection to large rail networks :)
13:09:06  <elmex> and i think the server dialog should force you to enter a real nickname
13:09:08  <elmex> other than Player
13:09:14  <elmex> with no default :)
13:09:43  <elmex> everytime someone named 'Player' joins i'm afraid that its someone who will messup the game
13:10:36  <elmex> not because he's a newbie, but because i've seen lots of 'Player' people joining a unprotected company and messing up the landscape with leveling with all the money
13:10:40  <elmex> or similiar stuff
13:11:26  <elmex> that will of course not really change with a forced entry of the name ;-/
13:11:48  <Ammler> hmm, does that depense on the nick? Icould join with nick "friend" and mess up the map
13:12:49  <elmex> right
13:12:53  <elmex> ignore that point :)
13:15:53  <Thomas[NL]_> http://ttartist.freeforums.org/portal.php you guys knew of this site?
13:17:15  <elmex> no
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13:18:18  <elmex> it seems to be new
13:18:27  <elmex> and forum isn't browsable or empty :)
13:19:12  <peter1138> dark on black...
13:19:26  <peter1138> ah, it's SAC :D
13:19:41  <elmex> SAC?
13:22:48  <Ammler> peter1138: Is there more, when you register?
13:22:52  <peter1138> nope ;p
13:22:55  <Thomas[NL]_> whats the L & X in TTDLX ?
13:23:02  <peter1138> DeLuXe
13:23:16  <Thomas[NL]_> ah
13:23:25  <Thomas[NL]_> keep an eye on http://www.i-gameartist.com/
13:23:38  <peter1138> why?
13:24:05  <peter1138> oh, i see
13:24:25  <Thomas[NL]_> I found the forum :/
13:25:58  <Thomas[NL]_> my god
13:29:17  <Wolf01> bad choice to have the forum hidden to guests
13:30:13  <Thomas[NL]_> seems like you could only be invited first
13:31:37  <Thomas[NL]_> SAC is online on the forums it seems
13:32:06  <Wolf01> after the experience on the official forum, i think sac was really angry and i can understand her
13:33:24  <Thomas[NL]_> may I ask what happened?
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13:35:35  <Wolf01> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=8919&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=infra&start=940
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13:44:48  <Thomas[NL]_> That's a sad story...
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13:50:02  <elmex> hm
13:50:11  <elmex> could someone sum it up for me? 50 pages
13:50:25  <elmex> nvm
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13:56:29  <Rubidium> elmex: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=538222#538222 <- just read that post
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13:57:45  <elmex> hm,yes
13:58:40  <elmex> SAC seems to be quite reasonable
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16:12:50  <ewanm89> hey, how are you?
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16:14:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> "idle" probably describes it :)
16:18:40  <ewanm89> Anyone using latest svn?
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16:41:30  <Wolf01> nothing interesting today, eh?
16:51:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, only that arctan(1/2) != 22.5°
16:52:55  <ewanm89> Anyone using latest svn of openttd?
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16:54:41  <Wolf01> Eddi|zuHause2, as you can see, i'm not good at maths
16:54:57  <Wolf01> ewanm89, yes
16:55:12  <ewanm89> Can I play against you?
16:55:16  <Wolf01> no
16:55:21  <ewanm89> :(
16:55:26  <Wolf01> i have other things to do
16:55:30  <ewanm89> OK
16:56:07  <ewanm89> Does anyone recommend any particular newgrf files?
16:56:21  <Wolf01> TTRSv3
16:56:29  <Wolf01> and UKRS
16:56:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> DBSetXL
16:56:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> and, of course, stolentrees :)
16:57:07  <Wolf01> stolentrees is a must
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17:01:06  <ewanm89> Where can I get stolen trees?
17:01:25  <ewanm89> s/n t/nt/
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17:04:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> from grfcrawler, i assume
17:04:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> and it's on the forum, but it might be hidden :)
17:08:30  <Szandor> anybody got thoughts on my overwrite roadstops patch? ( http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=31893 )
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17:42:31  <Wolf01> enhanced the adjoin patch, all station can be adjoined now
17:43:03  <Wolf01> the patch: http://www.tt-forums.net//files/adjoin_stations_9828_2_140.diff
17:49:16  <ewanm89_> stolentrees not on grfcrawler, could someone DCC it to me?
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17:54:33  <ewanm89> Wolf01: Could you dcc me stolentrees?
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17:56:47  <Thomas[NL]_> http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=527234&highlight=stolen+trees+grf#527234 10 seconds of tt-forums search magic needed
17:57:48  <ewanm89> thanks
17:58:17  <SpComb> Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
17:58:17  <tormentum> !logs
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18:05:12  <Wolf01> there's somebody who want to help for autoroad tool?
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19:27:24  <Ammler> help invite
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19:48:22  <Wolf01> 'night
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20:06:01  <eJoJ> Where can i submit a bug?
20:06:12  <glx> bugs.openttd.org
20:06:28  <glx> check if it isn't already reported first
20:06:52  <eJoJ> oki
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21:25:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9831 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp vehicle.cpp vehicle.h): -Codechange: more refactoring of the loading/unloading.
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21:45:23  <Sacro> ooh its him
21:46:18  <Bjarni> damn it's dark outside
21:46:28  <Bjarni> something killed the streetlights
21:46:38  <Sacro> hehe
21:46:44  <Sacro> amish invasion?
21:46:49  <Bjarni> I wonder
21:47:09  <Bjarni> it could also be a power failure, but then again why should I have power? :)
21:47:23  <Bjarni> but the other houses appears to be dark as well
21:47:24  <Sacro> indeed
21:47:31  <Sacro> surely one out, all out?
21:47:48  <Bjarni> that's the usual way
21:48:23  <XeryusTC> maybe you got hooked up with a giant UPS
21:48:33  <XeryusTC> like, a ninja UPS :P
21:48:43  <Bjarni> err
21:48:44  <Sacro> ooh
21:48:52  <Bjarni> my UPS reports that the external power is ok
21:48:54  <Sacro> the amish with wire cutters vs ninjas with their ups's
21:49:10  <Bjarni> o_O
21:49:16  <XeryusTC> :P
21:50:25  <Sacro> the end is nigh
21:50:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> err...
21:50:59  <Bjarni> don't ask
21:51:03  <Bjarni> it's Sacro after all
21:51:08  <Bjarni> you don't want to know the reason
21:51:10  <Bjarni> :p
21:51:28  <Sacro> :o
21:52:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> you're probably right. but i can't help it, it's my nature to try to understand reasons :p
21:52:52  <Bjarni> NEVER ASK QUESTIONS WHERE YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW THE ANSWER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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21:53:51  <Tefad> why do electrons behave as waves when there is no observer.
21:55:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> did you observe that behaviour? :p
21:56:05  <Bjarni> if you don't observe them, how can you be sure that they will?
21:57:17  <Tefad> the outcome
21:57:19  *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:57:43  <Tefad> if a tree falls in a forrest with no one around.. the tree still fell
21:58:14  <Rubidium> Schrodinger's cat ;)
21:58:20  <Tefad> yes yes indeed.
21:58:22  <valhalla1w> schrödinger \o/
21:58:40  <Tefad> i like schrodinger's fridge better.
21:59:22  <valhalla1w> a fridge that ceases to exist when some radioactive atom......?
22:00:06  <Tefad> http://www.loadingreadyrun.com/videos/view/102
22:01:54  *** thgergo [~th_gergo@dsl51B60E41.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:02:45  <valhalla1w> :P
22:02:52  <Tefad> http://www.angryflower.com/schrod.gif
22:02:55  <Tefad> the source
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22:10:17  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9832 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp: -Fix: leave the station when manually skipping to the next order and we are currently (un)loading.
22:12:07  <Bjarni> btw the news today talked about some weird guy, who decided to get onto the roof of a train to get a ride.... The jerk didn't think as far as the bridge ahead o_O
22:12:35  <Bjarni> now he isn't thinking at all anymore
22:13:46  <Bjarni> why would anybody do something like that???
22:13:48  <Rubidium> justice is swift
22:14:05  <Rubidium> Bjarni: because the person didn't have any money?
22:14:11  <Rubidium> and it's fairly normal
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22:14:25  <Bjarni> surprisingly it appears that he had a valid ticket
22:14:27  <Rubidium> in countries like Brazil and India
22:15:52  <Bjarni> well, I know that a lot of poor Indians ride outside trains to save money, but here....
22:16:31  <Rubidium> ofcourse trains in India hardly go anywhere near fast
22:17:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> the only situation i remember seeing people on trains in europe wss during documentaries about WWII
22:19:24  <Bjarni> I have a solution to this problem: put up catenary
22:20:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> ah, right, that's why we don't have that problem anymore :p
22:21:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> although... we already had catenary up during WWII, on some main routes
22:23:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> especially on hilly routes in south germany and austria
22:23:45  <Bjarni> go figure
22:23:58  <Bjarni> electric traction is the best for hill climbing
22:24:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> you probably don't have enough hills :)
22:24:23  <Bjarni> also they use 16 2/3 Hz, a frequency produced by hydro power plants
22:24:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, i don't know the reasoning why this frequency was chosen
22:25:03  <Bjarni> I do
22:25:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> most power was probably produced by coal power plants
22:26:01  <Bjarni> when they had to pick a frequency, they couldn't pick DC because that wouldn't work with the transformers, but each time the polarity changed, a spark would be produced in the engine
22:26:16  <Bjarni> 50 Hz would produce so many sparks, that the engine would overheat and melt
22:26:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> uhhm... that does not sound very convincing
22:27:00  <Bjarni> 16 2/3 Hz turned out to be high enough for the transformers and low enough for the engines
22:27:51  <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause2>	uhhm... that does not sound very convincing <-- not by modern standards, but it was a real issue when the catenary was built
22:28:48  <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause2>	most power was probably produced by coal power plants <-- 16 2/3 Hz needs lower RPM at the powerplant, so hydro power has always been used and is still used to supply the railroads
22:28:59  <Bjarni> they have their own 16 2/3 Hz power grid
22:29:42  * Bjarni wonders why the spark reason isn't convincing
22:31:17  <Bjarni> the reason for using 16 2/3 Hz died when the high power AC-DC converter was invented
22:31:44  <Bjarni> but by then it was too expensive to replace all the catenary power grid and electric engines
22:32:04  <Bjarni> they simply had built too many by then
22:32:58  <Bjarni> USA managed to switch from 25 Hz to 60 Hz though. They built engines that could handle both for years and then they started replacing the power grid then most engines could survive it
22:33:21  <Bjarni> GG1 was retired though because it's a 25 Hz only engine
22:33:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't know anything about american engines
22:34:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> or american power systems...
22:34:13  <Bjarni> the American power grid uses 60 Hz
22:34:21  <Bjarni> the European one uses 50 Hz
22:34:28  <Bjarni> I guess you heard that before ;)
22:34:41  <Bjarni> Japan uses both (what a mess :p)
22:35:33  <Bjarni> anyway I know the spark reason to be the real reason for picking 16 2/3 Hz
22:39:14  <Bjarni> http://www.l-eriksen.dk/toge/vet/klubber/bryrup_vrads/1/pic00007.jpg <-- LOL. There is a sign toward the train.... like people will have problems finding the train when they reach this sign :D
22:42:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> hmm... a lot of stations i know have a sign saying "to the trains"... usually inside the waiting hall, though
22:43:17  <Bjarni> yeah, I have seen those as well
22:43:31  <Bjarni> ... but right next to the only platform on the station :D
22:44:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> well... :p
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23:34:22  <Ailure> toot
23:35:35  <Bjarni> hi Ailure
23:36:40  <Ailure> hello
23:36:51  <Bjarni> what do you mean by "toot"?
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23:39:02  <Ailure> :o
23:39:09  <Ailure> Toot like a steam engine
23:39:26  <Bjarni> you aren't supposed to say that
23:39:34  <Bjarni> you are supposed to make the engine say that :p
23:40:41  <Bjarni> http://www.veterantoget.dk/materiel/damp/s1307.html <-- like I have done with this one :D
23:40:58  <Ailure> Danish
23:40:59  <Ailure> :o
23:41:21  * geoffk choo choo, beep beep
23:41:46  <Ailure> Nice steam engine
23:42:01  <Ailure> Been awhile since I saw one RL now
23:42:20  <Ailure> Would be cool seeing a old steam engine next to a X2 on a train station. :P
23:42:22  <Ailure> I like clashes.
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23:43:17  <Bjarni> hehe
23:43:35  <Ailure> ah
23:43:39  <Ailure> that train is b
23:43:41  <Ailure> Swedish too
23:43:42  <Bjarni> I have been on this engine and looked at an X2000 on the nearby track
23:44:04  <Ailure> hehe
23:44:10  <Ailure> X2000 make a rather cool noise :o
23:44:25  <Ailure> It sounds more like a airplane landing than a train
23:44:32  <Bjarni> heh
23:44:47  <Bjarni> this particular X2000 didn't move
23:45:16  <Bjarni> loading passengers or some other lame excuse for not driving as fast as possible :p
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23:48:04  <valhalla1w> !coffee
23:48:08  *** valhalla1w is now known as valhallasw
23:48:09  <valhallasw> ;(
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23:48:33  * Bjarni hands a container with some black liquid to valhallasw
23:48:52  <valhallasw> \o/
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23:49:10  <valhallasw> I suspect it will be 4 o'clock when I finally can get some sleep >_<
23:49:30  <Bjarni> you mean you are going to drink it?
23:49:36  <valhallasw> yes
23:49:41  * valhallasw smells
23:49:42  <valhallasw> wait.
23:49:45  <valhallasw> that is motor oil
23:49:47  <valhallasw> >:(
23:49:53  <Bjarni> actually not
23:49:57  <Bjarni> it's lube oil
23:50:04  <Bjarni> thick lube oil
23:50:21  <Bjarni> from the locomotive I just posted a link to
23:50:55  <Bjarni> you know how lube oil for cars is named like 10-30 for thin oil and 15-40 for thick one?
23:51:24  <valhallasw> it has something to do with the pressure you need to exert
23:51:26  <valhallasw> probably
23:51:36  <Bjarni> the lube oil for the rods is something with 135 and it is usually heated so it can be thin enough to apply
23:51:49  <valhallasw> I only know it is about as evil as PSU's and BTU's
23:51:54  <valhallasw> PSI's :+
23:52:22  <Bjarni> PSI?
23:52:32  <valhallasw> hm, psi's
23:52:39  <valhallasw> pounds per square inch-evilness
23:52:41  <Ailure> haha
23:52:47  <Ailure> that fork thread amuses me everytime
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23:54:10  <Ailure> like forking it from a old revision D:
23:54:27  <Ailure> and that c++ is the evul
23:55:00  <Bjarni> the fork thing?
23:55:18  <Ailure> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=30976
23:55:20  <Ailure> this thread
23:55:24  <Tefad> pascal replaces PSI
23:55:25  <Ailure> it's not going anywhere as you can see
23:56:35  <Ailure> I also laugh everytime people complain about coding style
23:56:45  <Ailure> I have no problems adapting myself to whatever people want :D
23:57:16  <Bjarni> well, I do have a problem adapting to whatever people want
23:57:42  <Ailure> there's also problems that converts coding styles too
23:57:47  <Bjarni> specially if they want odd stuff like a free taxi or gay sex
23:57:47  <Ailure> *programs

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