Log for #openttd on 22nd May 2007:
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00:26:37  <UndernotBuilder> well I don't mind about higher sea/river levels because with an grf I can change the canals graphics for making them look as ttdpatch rivers
00:27:39  <UndernotBuilder> or a patch for an aditional type of canals that can be built only in scenario editor :)
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00:29:06  <UndernotBuilder> that would be a nice patch for a starter like me but my projects generally end in the nothing
00:31:21  <staniel|home> I'd like to be able to build a dock on the canal... is that possible?
00:33:41  <Jerub> staniel|home: I don't think so, not at the moment.
00:33:47  <UndernotBuilder> also we should try to steal ttdp's aquaducts
00:34:18  <Jerub> staniel|home: I do one of two things. either I flatten the land to sea level all the way to the destination, flattening it at the coastline last.
00:34:51  <Jerub> or, I build a train statioh that connects with the dock to extend its catchment area.
00:35:21  <Jerub> oh, right, UndernotBuilder is talking about a patch..
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00:46:20  <Jerub> It kinda feels like cheating to use hovercraft for passenger transport.
00:47:10  <staniel|home> Jerub: how so?
00:47:43  <Jerub> you don't have to lay any track, there's no collisions for ships so they can all just run straight through each other.
00:48:27  <staniel|home> lol
00:48:56  <Jerub> I transport over 2000 passengers a month via hovercraft from a single city with a single dock.
00:49:03  <Jerub> I think it's over 2000.
00:51:51  <Jerub> it's a huge number, regardless.
00:52:01  <Jerub> and it makes the city grow like buggery.
00:52:29  <staniel|home> heh
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00:55:58  <staniel|desktop> gah! POS router!
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01:02:31  <Jerub> staniel: do you ever use ships?
01:02:53  <staniel> yeah, oil tankers
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01:46:12  <Jerub> staniel: is that it?
01:47:13  <staniel> hmm?
01:47:20  <staniel> for ships? yeah
01:48:10  <Jerub> interesithg. I might have to write up my experiments with ships.
01:49:26  <staniel> in TTD I think I might have used hovercraft, but not to often
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01:49:41  <staniel> I prefer trians for cargo and planes for passenger/mail
01:49:50  <Jerub> interesting.
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01:50:14  <Jerub> I really need to sit down with a pad and paper and work out how much my ships actually cost me.
01:50:29  <staniel> just cause of speed, ships and road vehicles are slow
01:50:39  <staniel> plus, I hardly break even with road vehicles really
01:51:05  <Jerub> yeah, road vehicles are insanely slow.
01:51:24  <Jerub> they're only useful in very limited circumstances. like if you want some towns to grow or something.
01:52:07  <Jerub> just setting up a bus service between 4-6 towns early on in the game is enough to turn those into huge cities by 1970.
01:52:49  <staniel> I guess buses aren't really there for money grab then, just to increase the city to allow for other services to enter that city
01:53:16  <staniel> though I did notice in this game the buses I had running between 2 cities greatly expanded them...
01:53:25  <staniel> they kinda meshed together lol
01:53:30  <Jerub> I make about 200k/year off my road at the moment, and about 3m/year off my trains.
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01:55:18  <staniel|home> damn router!!!
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02:02:50  <Jerub> I was actually surprised how much my road vehicles netted me.
02:03:13  <Jerub> I occasionally go and see my bus stations and clone vehicles if there were more than 1000 passengers waiting.
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02:12:14  <staniel|home> I do that with planes
02:12:28  <staniel|home> though that tends to mess you over later if you need to upgrade the airport
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03:12:23  <Jerub> I'm tempted to get openttd running on the olpc.
03:12:33  <staniel|desktop> olpc?
03:13:03  <Jerub>
03:14:03  <staniel|desktop> ahhh
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03:20:36  <Jerub> Is there a free tileset?
03:20:57  <Jerub> Like, is it possible to distribute openttd totally free without ever needing the grf's from the original game?
03:21:16  <Sacro^> no
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03:21:51  <Jerub> Sacro^: What's missing/needed?
03:22:00  <Sacro^> Jerub: check the wiki
03:23:22  <Jerub> what do I look for?
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03:26:33  <Jerub> I mean, I see the GRF stuff, but I don't see a List of Missing Graphics or something.
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03:35:41  <Jerub> I see now.
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04:29:09  <staniel|desktop> wow, those 'disasters' can happen more then once
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06:18:16  <boekabart> heh
06:18:41  <boekabart> here,, they write 'important: don't join before split.' but then, the example only has join before split in fact
06:19:16  <boekabart> .. coming from left to right, that is
06:20:10  <peter1138> heh
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06:48:38  <boekabart> Why is 'town names' language greyed out? Do I need something?
06:48:53  <peter1138> ...
06:49:00  <peter1138> you can't change it during a game
06:49:08  <boekabart> ah yes
06:49:22  <boekabart> obviously, but why can't i change it in scenario editor before i built any city?
06:49:50  <peter1138> probably just to be awkward
06:50:08  <boekabart> :)
06:50:22  <boekabart> there is no technical reason for it to be disabled?
06:51:22  <staniel|desktop> probably not?
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06:55:55  <Rubidium> boekabart: when no towns have been built there is no technical reason, but it's probably useless to have lots of code to allow that
06:56:05  <Rubidium> when towns are built there is a technical reason
06:57:14  <boekabart> Rubidium: what is that reason?
06:57:24  <Rubidium> duplicate townnames
06:57:55  <boekabart> that's not checked by iterating all existing towns on town generation?
06:58:32  <Rubidium> if you change the language when you already have built towns you can get duplicate names
06:59:24  <Rubidium> the 'language' of the town names that is
07:00:55  <boekabart> ok, so there is no check on-generate-town, because it's not necessary as long as the 'language' doesn't change, right?
07:01:17  <peter1138> actually
07:01:31  <peter1138> i'm sure it does check
07:01:46  <boekabart> let me check ;)
07:09:08  <boekabart> town_cmd.cpp, line 1322 does the check
07:09:41  <boekabart> Made a patch and tested, changing town name scheme in scenario editor doesn't seem to create any issue at all
07:10:20  <staniel> now when you change it back does it give the same names back?
07:10:32  <boekabart> nope
07:11:21  <Jerub> sounds good. perhaps a 'randomise town names' button should be added :)
07:11:25  <peter1138> what might be nice is a "rerandomize name" button for towns, in the scenario editor
07:11:28  <peter1138> lol
07:11:57  <boekabart> switching back and forth between english and dutch, every time doing generate many towns, doesn't even HIT conflicting town names
07:12:29  <staniel> boekabart: no, but that could be why it wasnt implemented before
07:12:35  <boekabart> (the 'check duplicate' function never sees a duplicate so far)
07:13:13  <staniel> wow, its only been 2 beers and I want to do karaoke :(
07:14:01  <boekabart> staniel:  what time zone are you in??
07:14:16  <staniel> gmt-5
07:14:35  <staniel> so its just after 3 in hte morning... monday morning
07:14:41  <staniel> err tuesday morning
07:14:52  <boekabart> ah, EST
07:14:56  <staniel> yep
07:15:09  <staniel> its gotta be the dutch beer that does it
07:15:29  <boekabart> here CET it's a little early for beer... heavily on coffee atm
07:15:54  <staniel> im terrible with timezones - CET is where?
07:16:29  <Noldo>
07:16:40  <boekabart> central europe :) (from spain/france east to er, hungary, poland)
07:16:52  <staniel> thank  you noldo
07:16:56  <boekabart> actually it's western europe -/- UK and Portugal
07:16:58  <staniel> I knew someone would do that to me
07:17:07  <staniel> ahh
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07:20:19  <staniel> screw the karaoke, im gonna get the air guitar out lol
07:20:33  <boekabart> careful not to break the snares!
07:21:01  <staniel> lol
07:21:17  <boekabart> strings, i mean
07:21:42  <Jerub> I mentioned it earlier, I'm wondering if it's possible to play openttd at all without the original graphics.
07:22:07  <Jerub> The reason I'm asking is because I want to know if it will be possible to put openttd on the olpc.
07:22:16  <Rubidium> it is possible once someone has made a complete replacement pack for the graphics
07:22:19  <staniel> Jerub: kinda new to it, but I saw a listing of graphics that needed to be done
07:22:59  <Jerub> Rubidium: So is anything possible right now? is it possible to at least use placeholder graphics?
07:23:21  <boekabart> afaik, there is not even a full placeholder gfx set
07:23:46  <Jerub> yow, that bites.
07:24:00  <staniel> theres alot of graphics
07:24:11  <peter1138> not the right graphics though
07:24:12  <staniel> and probably not too many artists working on it
07:24:17  <peter1138> just random bits here and there
07:24:38  <boekabart> it's easy to do though, just extract all the orig grf's to PCX files, overdraw them by hand, re-gen GRF
07:24:44  <boekabart> just an awful lot of work
07:25:00  <peter1138> boekabart: not sure that counts as original ;p
07:25:02  <staniel> doesn't that violate some copyright laws?
07:25:35  <Jerub> the olpc project has to keep everything 100% above board.
07:25:50  <Jerub> but it doesn't matter if the graphics are totally crap and there's only 1 train.
07:26:28  <Jerub> just provided it can be demonstrated to actually work.
07:28:14  <boekabart> peter1138: by overdraw I mean, not with the same colors
07:28:38  <Jerub> So there isn't even a placeholder set. surely that shouldn't be too hard to put together...
07:28:53  <Jerub> you just need to know all the correct dimensions.
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07:29:27  <peter1138> Jerub: you are aware that openttd was originally disassembled from ttd, yes?
07:30:02  <Jerub> peter1138: disassembled. as in reverse engineered?
07:30:13  <peter1138> yeah
07:30:26  <Jerub> is it legal?
07:30:41  <peter1138> who knows
07:30:48  <boekabart> it was done in sweden
07:30:52  <boekabart> not in the US
07:30:54  <staniel> lol
07:31:12  <staniel> oh I love different counties for their laws
07:31:18  <Jerub> okay, dang. I'll drop an email to the FSF and get them to give me a legal opinion before I proceed.
07:31:21  * staniel loves being canadian
07:32:10  <peter1138> fwiw, debian used to not want it, but i think it's in unstable now
07:32:19  <peter1138> dunno with repository though
07:32:23  <peter1138> maybe non-free ;)
07:32:23  <ln-> contrib
07:32:28  <peter1138> ahh
07:33:20  <boekabart> Jerub: Here a zip with all the original sprites in convenient 800x800 gif files:
07:33:25  <staniel> heh, that rms program is totally gonna fail on my system lol
07:33:32  <boekabart> go ahead, make everyones day!
07:33:43  <ln-> @kick boekabart
07:33:50  <boekabart> hey
07:33:55  <peter1138> @kick boekabart ?
07:33:59  <peter1138> heh
07:33:59  <staniel> laggy bot?
07:34:01  <boekabart> it's gif files, without nfo. totally useless
07:34:07  <boekabart> it's derived work only
07:34:08  <peter1138> staniel: no privs ;p
07:34:14  <staniel> lol ahh
07:34:25  <peter1138> who uses gif these days anyway
07:34:32  <staniel> png ftw!
07:34:46  <boekabart> ah, yes, could have used 8bpp png too
07:34:47  <staniel> I wonder if any digital cameras use png...
07:35:01  <boekabart> png is not too fit for photos
07:35:19  <boekabart> anyway, i chose gif over pcx.
07:35:20  <peter1138> staniel: doubt it, they prefer their lovely raw formats :o
07:35:21  <staniel> with the quality of my camera, bmp would work :P
07:35:24  <boekabart> pcx is soooo 1975
07:35:55  <boekabart> staniel: that's why your camera probably has an even better (10bits per color) RAW format, right?
07:36:05  <staniel> nah, its only jpg I think...
07:36:51  <Jerub> is there a decent page showing what happened with the reverse engineering?
07:42:52  <peter1138> not that i know of
07:44:25  <staniel> is there a limit of how many boats can be moured (sp?) to a dock?
07:45:04  <peter1138> no
07:45:06  <peter1138> not yet
07:45:19  <staniel> there a debate on that?
07:45:49  <boekabart> is that also the reason why a can station have more than 1 loading dock for trucks, but not more than 1 dock ( since there's no need for that )?
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07:50:48  <staniel> what the hell
07:51:05  <staniel> thats the 3rd tim that damn jet has killed that oil refinery
07:56:13  <boekabart> TrueBrain: I think I found a bug in 16x zoom:
07:57:01  <boekabart> do you see those pixels on the bottom edges ? after zooming, they are black, so they are not drawn apparently.
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08:00:51  <boekabart> TrueBrain: Easier to see, dragged a red dialog over it so show which pixels are never drawn:
08:02:43  <boekabart> BTW on my PC, 16x zoom on a 2048x2048 map scrolls perfectly fine on 1280x1024 resolution. PC: p4 2.4ghz
08:11:26  <peter1138> heh
08:11:31  <peter1138> if only :p
08:12:16  <peter1138> is it ok at 8x?
08:12:20  <boekabart> yes
08:12:24  <peter1138> and indeed 2x or 4x
08:12:29  <boekabart> just double checked that
08:12:30  <peter1138> or even 1x, hehe
08:12:43  <boekabart> made bugreport on
08:12:47  <peter1138> yes, i saw
08:12:51  <boekabart> ok
08:12:59  <peter1138> #openttd.notice is useful ;)
08:13:36  <peter1138> ok, do i put up with windows being horribly slow here, or shall i boot from this ubuntu live cd i burnt this morning...
08:15:46  <boekabart> i don't think it's a windows problem actually
08:15:57  <boekabart> i think it's a blitter problem in fact
08:17:57  <peter1138> who ever said it was a windows problem?
08:18:30  <Rubidium> boekabart did
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08:25:56  <boekabart> well I can only confirm it on windows
08:33:38  <peter1138> oic
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08:39:05  <Kjetil> Good morning
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09:06:40  <kornerr> hi
09:08:43  <kornerr> cu
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10:37:39  <peter1138> right... who's used qemu?
10:37:50  <Kjetil> !
10:37:55  <peter1138> what?
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10:38:20  <Kjetil> If you refer to general use.. I have used it
10:38:34  <peter1138> is it possible to use a real harddrive instead of a file?
10:38:58  <peter1138> ah, yes, with permissions *doh*
10:39:10  <Kjetil> Isn't a harddrive a file i *nix ? :P
10:39:13  <Kjetil> in*
10:39:48  <peter1138> yes, just permissions
10:39:56  <peter1138> shame the image doesn't boot :/
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10:41:06  <peter1138> mup.sys :/
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12:27:03  <yeti_> hi :)
12:27:09  <yeti_> is the svn server down?
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12:31:52  <boekabart> svn is indeed down it seems
12:32:07  <boekabart> and truelight/truebrain is offline also
12:36:45  <SpComb> the eweka network is down or somesuch
12:38:41  <orudge> Indeed
12:38:51  <orudge> tis a bit annoying, it's been good recently
12:38:56  <orudge> usually the outages aren't too long...
12:39:07  <orudge> so I hope they ought to have it fixed within 10 minutes or so
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12:42:33  <Digitalfox> orudge:  is tt forums also affected?? I can't access it..
12:44:18  <boekabart> probably everything
12:44:47  <SpComb> except :P
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12:45:11  <orudge> Yes, Digitalfox
12:45:20  <orudge> everything except aslan and;p
12:45:51  <Digitalfox> ok
12:47:08  <Digitalfox> I didn't imagine almost all comunity sites were on the same provider :|
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12:48:09  <orudge> Well, not quite all... but all of the OpenTTD and tt-forums stuff is in the same datacentre, yes
12:48:16  <orudge> because it's us who pays for it all
12:48:41  <boekabart> how does one donate, actually?
12:49:58  <orudge> I'd link to the site, but, well...
12:50:26  <orudge> but anyway, PayPal is the best way
12:50:34  <orudge> but you can also donate in a few other ways
12:51:05  <ln-> (if you are a female?)
12:51:10  <Digitalfox> orudge:  Do you have a estimated price you pay for all this each year?
12:52:35  <orudge> for tt-forums it's probably around 1000 eur/year or so, TL also pays a fair bit towards it
12:53:07  <orudge> ln-: are you? :p
12:53:18  <ln-> nope
12:53:26  <ln-> and i don't think i'll ever be.
12:54:11  <ln-> btw, "you" in the sentence was in the meaning "one".
12:54:17  <ln-> like above
12:54:39  <orudge> I figured that, yes
12:54:39  <Digitalfox> Shit 1000EUR?? How do you 2 mqnqge to pay all this?? Sure there are donations, but do they even take care of 50% ?
12:54:39  <orudge> but I just thought I'd ask
12:54:46  <orudge> The donations do help cover it
12:54:53  <orudge> and the rest is sponsored by my company, and his
12:54:56  <orudge> and/or my own pocket
12:55:41  <Digitalfox> Well.. just two words for you.. THANK YOU
12:55:51  <orudge> No worries, heh
12:55:56  <orudge> it's just annoying when it goes down...
12:56:02  <Digitalfox> yeah
12:56:16  <boekabart> merci beaucoup, danke schon, bedankt, grazie, multumesc!
12:56:27  <boekabart> gracias too..
12:56:30  <Digitalfox> obrigado
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12:57:31  <orudge> <-- see the little blip on the graph at the end?
12:57:35  <orudge> that's eweka being dow
12:57:35  <orudge> n
12:57:40  <orudge> and it's still down, grr
12:58:22  <boekabart> eweka is big?
12:59:40  <orudge> It is pretty big
12:59:49  <orudge> it seems only part of eweka is down, though
12:59:53  <orudge> conveniently enough the part we're on
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13:02:22  <orudge> aha
13:02:23  <orudge> they're back
13:02:45  <Digitalfox> In the daily graph from 04 to 08 it seems there webstes stop having traffic
13:03:19  <Digitalfox> +websites
13:03:24  <SpComb> Digitalfox: note the scale on the left side
13:03:37  <SpComb> 100Gbit/s is the bottom of the graph
13:03:43  <SpComb> 250Gbit/s is the top
13:04:06  <SpComb> but yes, it doubles towards the late afternoon/evening european time
13:04:18  <boekabart> well it IS the biggest IX on the planet, isn't it?
13:04:28  <Digitalfox> oh yeah you're right, but even so the trafic does became a really lot less
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13:05:06  <boekabart> and we're back?
13:05:12  <Digitalfox> It looks the pack time is 9PM
13:05:20  <orudge> we're hopefully back
13:05:28  <Digitalfox> *peak
13:05:39  <Digitalfox> nice
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13:45:46  <yeti_> @ams-ix: hmmm... 250Gbit/s is really a lot, but i guess the traffic on "really big" points like the europe-US overseas line is much higher, no? do you know where to find out about traffic totals on trancontinental lines?
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15:48:05  <Ailure> neat
15:48:12  <Ailure> didn't notice there was new zoom levels XD
15:48:43  <peter1138> slow!
15:48:47  <Ailure> a whole 256x256 map fits on the new zoom levels
15:48:51  <Ailure> heh
15:49:18  <Ailure> it only lags if I scroll fast
15:49:19  * peter1138 'accidentally' checks out trunk on his 'new' desktop
15:49:45  <hylje> :o
15:50:45  <TrueBrain> peter1138: with what speed? :p (that 'new' desktop that is)
15:51:37  <Ailure> although due to lost detail
15:51:47  <Ailure> water looks like blinking blue globs
15:52:14  <Ailure> glowing in that radioactive way
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15:53:22  <Ailure> haha
15:53:29  <Ailure> sounds still play as loud too
15:53:55  <hylje> :p
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15:54:15  <Ailure> How many samples can openTTD play at once?
15:54:16  <Ailure> heh
15:54:41  <Ailure> haha
15:54:51  <Ailure> in a snowmap there's windsounds constantly
15:54:55  <Tefad> enough to blow your speakers
15:54:59  <Ailure> and the last sample dosen't even get time to stop before it starts another
15:55:00  <Ailure> hmm
15:55:02  <Ailure> ah yeah
15:55:04  <Ailure> xD
15:55:09  <Ailure> starting 30 boats at once
15:55:10  <Ailure> is ouch
15:55:15  <peter1138> TrueBrain: athlon 2400 iirc
15:55:16  <Tefad> ehehehehe.
15:55:26  <peter1138> TrueBrain: it's not new, it's just running linux instead of windows, heh
15:57:14  <peter1138> Ailure: 8
15:57:33  <Ailure> heh
15:57:34  <Ailure> still
15:57:37  <Ailure> eight samples at once
15:57:40  <Ailure> of the same sound
15:57:42  <Ailure> sounds terrible :p
15:58:27  <Tefad> it doesn't divide the signal correctly or something
15:58:42  <Tefad> to avoid clipping.. bad algorithm or something
15:58:43  * Tefad shrugs
16:00:43  <Ailure> yeah it adds the signal to each other or osmething
16:00:43  <Ailure> xD
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16:15:52  <yeti_> are ttdpatch and openttd similar in their codebase or are they completely different?
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16:20:02  <Rubidium> grr...
16:20:13  <yeti_> huh?
16:20:19  <Rubidium> stupid bounding boxes
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16:39:47  <yeti_> bounding boxes in LaTeX/postscript/pdf? yep, that's pretty stupid stuff
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16:57:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> he probably means bounding boxex in ottd
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16:59:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> as to your question, ttdp and ottd are completely different projects, ttdp is written in assembler, and does not contain any code from the original game, while ottd is based on the original game code, ported to C(++)
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17:03:07  <TrueBrain> "and does not contain any code from the original game" <- misleading :s
17:03:35  <peter1138> heh
17:03:40  <peter1138> yeah
17:04:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, i do not really know anything about the structure of ttdp :p
17:04:50  <TrueBrain> sometimes it is better to not talk, than to talk gibberish :)
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18:16:58  <jaims> hi all
18:17:05  <jaims> one question
18:17:16  <jaims> i've just installed the deb package of open ttd
18:17:35  <jaims> but doesn't start. Reason: no
18:17:44  <peter1138> solution: obtain
18:17:50  <jaims> ;-)
18:17:56  <jaims> right
18:18:10  <jaims> in the same place where i downloaded openttd?
18:18:27  <HMage> no, you must own original transport tycoon deluxe
18:18:34  <jaims> aha
18:18:35  <jaims> ok
18:18:45  <jaims> that's what i was thinking...
18:19:02  <jaims> ok, thanks a lot
18:19:12  <peter1138> fcvo own, heh
18:19:13  <jaims> just wanted to make sure
18:19:31  <jaims> bye all, and thanks
18:19:34  <peter1138> bye
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18:20:07  <peter1138> mmm'kay
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18:50:20  <Wolf01> hello
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18:55:08  <Wolf01> is here somebody good with ssh tunnels?
18:55:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> is that where trains go "toot toot"?
18:55:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> :p
18:55:50  <Wolf01> yes those
18:56:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> i've never successfully used one...
18:57:32  <Wolf01> i wanted to know how to connect to the web through an ssh tunnel, i can connect at all what i want (from work office i use it for irc)
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18:59:56  <Wolf01> maybe if i don't specify the address before :80
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19:03:05  <Wolf01> no, blank page :\
19:04:20  <blathijs> Wolf01: Do you want to connect to a specific webserver through an ssh tunnel?
19:04:33  <blathijs> Wolf01: Or to the entire internet using just one tunnel?
19:04:53  <Wolf01> the second, the first i'm already able to do it :P
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19:07:45  <Wolf01> i use puttyssh
19:09:39  <blathijs> I'm not sure that ssh by itself can do that
19:09:52  <blathijs> For the other end of the tunnel has no way of knowing where to connect to
19:10:11  <Wolf01> i might need a proxy server
19:10:17  <blathijs> yes, that would do the trick
19:10:29  <blathijs> set up a simple proxy at the server end and connect your ssh tunnel to that
19:14:48  <Wolf01> i have it already installed, but i never knew how to use it for http, i always used it for pop3 and smtp because of some old connection problems
19:29:20  <blathijs> it's a SOCKS proxy then, I assume?
19:29:26  <Wolf01> yes
19:31:30  <Wolf01> all what it does now is to show my webserver homepage
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19:48:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9898 /trunk/src/ (command.cpp command.h group_cmd.cpp group_gui.cpp): (log message trimmed)
19:48:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix (r9874): Many...
19:48:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  - Group protection status wasn't changed via a command.
19:48:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  - Group renaming didn't check group owner (and in fact changed the owner,
19:48:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  just like renaming a sign...).
19:48:44  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  - Added owner checks to other group commands.
19:48:44  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  - Invalidate window data after the command has been completed instead of after
19:49:16  <peter1138> </spam>
19:50:40  <boekabart> peter1138: About that patch that enables town name scheme changing in scenario editor....
19:50:48  <boekabart> what do the rest of the devs think of it?
19:53:38  <peter1138> no idea. did you ask any?
19:53:52  <Rubidium> boekabart: as I said before, that could give duplicate names
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19:55:43  <Wolf01> what about the adjoin stations patch instead?
19:56:07  <Rubidium> boekabart: just make a 2048x2048 map with lots and lots of towns in English, then change the language to Spanish
19:56:56  <boekabart> Rubidium: No it can't
19:56:58  <boekabart> i checked
19:57:26  <boekabart> 1) there is a check fn that checks dup names and 2) I did exactly that and the check fn didn't even ever 'hit' a dup
19:57:51  <Rubidium> boekabart: did you do the scenario I just gave you?
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19:58:15  <Rubidium> anyway, post me a link to the diff and I'll show you a savegame with duplicate names
19:58:22  <boekabart> gave me?
19:58:42  <Rubidium> before you said: "Rubidium: No it can't"
19:59:11  <peter1138> disallow changing it if there are any towns
19:59:13  <peter1138> problem solved
20:01:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> i agree... it's the same with changing road traffic side...
20:02:33  <boekabart> that is done with AnyRoadVehiclesBuilt()
20:02:36  <boekabart> Diff:
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20:06:38  <peter1138> i don't see a check for number of towns
20:08:19  <boekabart> number, no, the dup-check IS already in the GenerateTownName function
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20:19:42  <peter1138> yes
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20:19:46  <peter1138> you're missing the point
20:20:02  <boekabart> i'm afraid so
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20:20:20  <glx> townnames are just an int
20:20:52  <boekabart> ..which describes a combination of town-name-parts, right?
20:20:57  <boekabart> a concatenation, in fact
20:21:05  <glx> different values can give the same name in a given language
20:21:20  <peter1138> not exactly, it's effectively a random seed
20:21:24  <peter1138> value, anyway
20:23:08  <boekabart> but it seems a town in the end has a name which is a char*
20:23:17  <boekabart> and those are dup-checked
20:23:23  <boekabart> that's what I understand from the code
20:23:48  <peter1138> they're dup-checked... when a new town is created
20:24:09  <hylje> you can create a new town midgame?
20:24:14  <peter1138> so if you have a dozen towns, then change the language, you could end up with a dozen towns with the same name
20:24:16  <Bjarni> no
20:24:22  <peter1138> (unlikely, but it's possible)
20:24:29  <peter1138> hylje: scenario editor
20:24:31  <boekabart> but
20:24:35  <boekabart> when changing the lang
20:24:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> hylje: in the scenario editor you can, and there is a fund town patch
20:24:42  <boekabart> the names didn't change of the existing towns?!
20:25:49  <glx> save and reload: they'll change
20:26:26  <boekabart> aha, the names aren't saved in the savegame, just the int? ok then I stand corrected
20:26:37  <boekabart> and then the IsAnyTownBuilt() check should be added
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20:40:26  <Wolf01> 'night
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20:42:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> another option you could do would be to completely regenerate the names of all existing towns
20:43:32  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause2: and remove towns that it can't find a new name for?
20:44:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> errr... :p
20:46:51  <boekabart> or change savegame so it includes townname as string?
20:46:58  <boekabart> what's actually wrong with that
20:47:04  <boekabart> apart from bigger savegame
20:47:32  <boekabart> i guess the same int is used in industries too? or is that checked runtime, closest town->name ?
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21:02:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> err, i'd guess the industry stores a town ID
21:03:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> (i.e. a different int)
21:04:22  <boekabart> so storing town name string in savegame wouldn't be impossible at all i guess
21:05:07  <boekabart> - but the functionality to be able to change town name languages in scenario editor isn't worth that type of change imho -
21:07:29  <boekabart> glx: They don't change on load
21:09:25  <boekabart> The check is there
21:09:32  <boekabart> I'm positive the diff is fine
21:10:25  <boekabart> Here is a scenario to 'prove' it:
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21:21:39  <boekabart> Rubidium: I did all the tests you told me to, and they all work fine
21:21:58  <boekabart> save/quit/load : names are preserved fine
21:22:45  <boekabart> 2k x 2k map, many english, many dutch, many english, many romanian, many english : during generation, it finds conflicts and skips those, resulting scn doesn't seem to have conflicting names in it
21:22:57  <boekabart> the 2k x 2k map:
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21:25:40  <boekabart> Rubidium: just checked that scn in play-mode, town directory doesn't show any dups
21:25:55  <boekabart> world pop. 2 million :0
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21:33:45  <boekabart> anyway, Rubidium, other devs: i posted the whole thing on the forum
21:34:00  <boekabart> goodnight
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21:55:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r9899 /trunk/src/lang/ (15 files): (log message trimmed)
21:55:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-05-22 23:52:38
21:55:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: american - 32 fixed by WhiteRabbit (32)
21:55:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 25 fixed by tucalipe (25)
21:55:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bulgarian - 6 fixed by thetitan (6)
21:55:52  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: danish - 32 fixed, 21 changed by ThomasA (53)
21:55:54  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 32 fixed, 3 changed by habell (35)
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22:03:47  <mikk36[EST]> any of you guys watch 'Heroes' ?
22:04:04  *** mikk36[EST] is now known as mikk36
22:04:12  <Sionide> mikk36, me
22:04:15  <mikk36>
22:04:16  <mikk36> :P
22:04:21  <Sionide> er yeah
22:04:29  <mikk36> and a lot more :P
22:04:35  <Sionide>
22:04:53  <mikk36>
22:04:55  <Sionide>
22:06:00  <mikk36> how many seasons do you think there'll be ?
22:08:59  <Sionide> 4
22:09:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> 8
22:09:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> i so had to laugh at the cliffhanger :p
22:09:57  <mikk36> September 25, 10:29 PM
22:09:57  <mikk36> How many seasons/scripts are plotted out?
22:09:57  <mikk36> We have the first season mapped out in detail. Less so in the second season, but we have talked about where the show goes up to five seasons. That being said, I have learned that you really have to be open to letting a show take you where it wants to go. It is a living, breathing organism and it will speak to you if you listen.
22:10:24  *** egladil [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:10:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's so totally my new favourite series :)
22:10:43  <Sionide> it's the most watched tv show amongst american 18-30 year olds
22:10:47  <mikk36> been for months for me :)
22:10:50  <Sionide> or some such statistic, can't remember it exactly
22:11:00  <mikk36> and it broke 5 year-record too :P
22:11:02  <Sionide> it is very good
22:11:04  <mikk36> with it's first episode
22:11:08  <Sionide> way better than crappy lost
22:11:20  <mikk36> When the series premiered in the United States, it was the night's most-watched program among adults aged 18-49, attracting 14.3 million viewers overall and receiving the highest rating for any NBC drama premiere in five years.
22:11:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's not hard to beat NBC ratings :p
22:11:57  <mikk36> The second season of Heroes will consist of 24 episodes,[6] and the first season of new spinoff Heroes: Origins will include 6 episodes.[7]
22:12:12  <mikk36> hmm, what's fox' record ?
22:12:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, i know about the planned spinoff
22:12:42  <Sionide> should be awesome
22:12:50  <mikk36> :)
22:12:52  <Sionide> the level of interactivity in the show has been huge
22:12:54  <mikk36> can't wait :P
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22:13:14  <mikk36> and i love hdtv :P
22:13:18  <Sionide> for example, the prima tech paper company's website having confidential files on, if you complete the interview process to become an employee
22:13:21  <mikk36> too beautiful to look :P
22:13:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm still not over the thing with the license plate :p
22:13:33  <mikk36> license plate ?
22:13:34  <Sionide> mikk36, i stayed up all night last night to watch the finale, that's dedication for you
22:13:44  <mikk36> hehe
22:13:54  <mikk36> well, i don't live in the us nor canada
22:14:07  <Sionide> i'm in the uk
22:14:13  <mikk36> i watch it the next day here (shows "air" to torrents at ~5am)
22:14:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> nobody of us is :p
22:14:29  <mikk36> i don't have access to NBC either
22:14:30  <Sionide> the show airs 2:00am local time, i had it downloaded by half 3
22:14:43  <mikk36> which vers ?
22:14:47  <mikk36> (MB ?)
22:14:49  <Sionide> 350
22:14:52  <mikk36> bah :P
22:14:58  <mikk36> i enjoyed the 1.1GB one :)
22:15:01  <Sionide> pointless
22:15:04  <mikk36> nah it aint
22:15:07  <Sionide> on my laptop screen it is
22:15:09  <mikk36> hehe
22:15:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> it takes me 6-8 hours to get the 350MB version
22:15:15  <mikk36> i watch it on my 17'' LCd
22:15:19  <mikk36> o.O
22:15:26  <mikk36> 1.5 hours to get 1.1GB one
22:15:27  <mikk36> here
22:15:31  <Sionide> 20 mins, 350mb
22:15:33  <mikk36> comes in full speed from torrent
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22:15:45  <mikk36> ~215KB/s
22:16:26  <mikk36> although, that is totally offtopic from the series :P
22:16:27  <Sionide> there was a poll on facebook for who was going to stop sylar
22:16:40  <Sionide> a little while ago
22:16:44  <mikk36> well, hiro didn't do it alone :)
22:16:52  <Sionide> </spoilers>
22:16:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> "22.05.07 04:25 - Filter Matched 'Heroes' Type: TVShow - Ep 1x23"
22:16:56  <Sionide> for those who haven't yet seen it
22:16:58  <mikk36> and the pic in the comic book was several episodes ago already
22:17:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> "Download for: 6h 59m"
22:18:01  <mikk36> anyway, i should go to sleep now
22:18:08  <mikk36> 01:18
22:18:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> you should __not__ tell plot details in a public channel
22:18:20  <mikk36> Eddi|zuHause2, good point :)
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22:19:10  <mikk36> but... how could the comic book be wrong ? :D seems that isaac didn't see the future correctly ? :D
22:20:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> "in constant flow the future is" [Yoda]
22:20:24  <mikk36> :)
22:20:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> (the actual phrase might be different)
22:20:42  <mikk36> ever-changing
22:20:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> (i never saw it in english)
22:21:25  <mikk36> Always in motion, is the future
22:21:30  <mikk36> that's the correct one
22:22:54  <mikk36>
22:22:55  <ln-> what's the maximum tolerated episode number of Lost that can be discussed here?
22:23:13  <mikk36> ok, good night :)
22:25:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have seen up to 3x21
22:26:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> actually, i wanted to find out what this "Lost - The Answers" is about...
22:27:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> the problem is not about what the people in the active discussion talk about, the problem are the unsuspecting visitors that might read the log later
22:27:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> in german free tv, season 3 did not even start yet
22:28:52  <ln-> the same problem here
22:28:58  <ln-> but i've seen up to 3x12
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22:31:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> you do not ever want to have a lost spoiler... believe me
22:31:50  <ln-> i believe
22:32:32  <ln-> most likely finnish tv won't start showing season 3 until october november..
22:32:36  <ln-> +or
22:36:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, weird, apparently, ProSieben suspends broadcasting Desperate Housewives season 3, but not Grey's Anatomy season 3 (they started both season 3 right after season 2, without break)
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23:01:39  <Haclet> Hi gays
23:01:58  <Haclet> I just update last version OTTD from svn.
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23:03:18  <Haclet> And I am suprise - a lot changes, espesially I saw group in vechicles and colors for earn by vechicles
23:03:47  <Haclet> The color how much train/bus earn each yeat (green, red) can be switch off?
23:04:19  <Haclet> On my monitor in 1024x764 I see nothing .:) When the color was black - that was OK for me :)
23:05:27  <Rubidium> Haclet: you can turn the new vehicle list thing off in the gui
23:05:40  <Rubidium> in the patches, under interface
23:06:58  <Haclet> Wait - I'll check
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23:08:27  <Haclet> Ups :) I haven't seen it before :) I checked but I miss it :) Is on the end of the list :)
23:08:49  <Haclet> Rubidium: Are you developer of OTTD ?
23:15:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> in windows, you can pres Ctrl+D, then everything appears twice as big (if you have bad eyes :p)
23:16:26  <Haclet> thx - but I am using linux
23:16:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> there exists a patch that also does that in linux, but it was not included in trunk
23:16:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> i believe it was done by zevensoft
23:17:21  <Haclet> Rubidium: Sorki for my question - I just read first line in variable.h :)
23:17:28  <Haclet> You are developer ;) :) ;) :/
23:17:52  <Haclet> I have an another question
23:17:58  <tokai> 640x480 fullscreen on a 20" has nice magnification effect too.
23:18:20  <Haclet> I am tring make my own new window in game - I greated widget, I added close button, title pannel,
23:18:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> i loathe switching resolutions, it tends to mess everything up
23:18:50  <tokai> Eddi|zuHause2: depends on the OS.
23:18:52  <Haclet> And everything look nice - my window appears but when I am clicking to close button - nothing is happen
23:19:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> especially when applications exit abnormally
23:19:24  <tokai> Haclet: i guess u need  to handle the close event and close the window manually.
23:19:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> tokai: that happened on every OS i tried
23:19:38  <Haclet> and when I quit from game - I have segmentation error
23:20:09  <tokai> Eddi|zuHause2: on MorphOS you actually have 2 real screens in that case. which u can easily switch.. the desktop screen doesn't mess up then.
23:20:28  <Haclet> I newbie in OTTD code - but I trying do it execly like another window are open,
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23:21:28  <Haclet> I know there is some events - like WE_PAINT, WE_CLICK but I didn't find out how execly does it work :)
23:22:32  <Haclet> Hmm - about screens - I have old monitor - But I would like to see screenshot from 20'' in 1024x768 :)
23:22:38  <Haclet> Have anyone ?
23:23:00  <Haclet> Rubidium: Are there still ?
23:23:02  <tokai> nope, my screen is bigger.
23:23:15  <Haclet> tokai: what do U mean ?
23:23:38  <tokai> Haclet: i only can provide 21.3" WS screenshot ;)
23:23:59  <tokai> (aka 1680x1050)
23:24:31  <tokai> anyway.. time for sleep.
23:24:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> i only have 1600x1200 screenshots
23:24:56  <Haclet> tokai: could you give me some like, plase - to see it :)
23:25:31  <Haclet> okej okej - I ment that I would like to see nice screenshots in high resolutions :) Have anyone in some website ?
23:25:33  <Haclet> :)
23:26:10  <Eddi|zuHause2>,%2014.%20Aug%201923.png
23:26:45  <Eddi|zuHause2>,%2020.%20Okt%201925.png
23:27:24  <Haclet> Thx :)
23:27:30  <Rubidium> Haclet: there are many causes why it doesn't work/segfault and I don't like guessing
23:27:32  <tokai>
23:27:40  <Rubidium> nor do I have a lot of time
23:28:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have some more screenshots, but i don't feel like finding out the names right now
23:28:52  <tokai> Eddi|zuHause2: safari doesn't like your URLs ;)
23:29:08  <tokai> cuts in front of the comma
23:29:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> what's wrong with them?
23:29:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> aha
23:29:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> bad luck :p
23:29:40  <Haclet> Rubidium: I don't ask to guess - but I thought, that I can create Window like others, but I was suprise.. I know I miss something - but at this moment I don't know what
23:29:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't remember the ascii code of the comma right now
23:30:28  <Haclet> Nice screenshots :)
23:30:55  <Haclet> But are you playing with this resolution - or you just made screenshot :)
23:30:59  <tokai> unicode is 2c
23:31:09  <tokai> should be identical to ascii AFAIR
23:31:10  <Haclet> I couldn't play with this resolutions ;)
23:31:23  <Haclet> I see nothing ;) [I have bad eyes :)]
23:31:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> i play with this resolution
23:31:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> but often i'd switch to Ctrl+D
23:31:48  <Haclet> Hehe :)
23:31:50  <tokai> Haclet: sounds like u run the wrong resolution on your monitor
23:32:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'd love separate x 1/2 zoom and gui-zoom
23:32:30  <Haclet> tokai: no - I have old monitor ;) Compaq S510 :)
23:32:59  <Haclet> And when I switch on 1024x768 It olmost OK - but small text is not OK :)
23:33:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have a 21" tube monitor
23:33:21  <tokai> Haclet: whats that 15"?
23:33:27  <Haclet> yeap :(
23:33:27  <tokai> +?
23:33:39  <tokai> well.. 800x600 is optimal resolution then
23:34:01  <Haclet> I know :)
23:34:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> i used to have a 14" monitor on 1280x960
23:34:35  <tokai> i know crazy ppl.. who run 1600x1200 on 17" ;)
23:34:38  <Haclet> Tell me gays... When the game is in multiplayer mode - and noone is playing - the time goes normally, right?
23:34:49  * HMage is not gay :)
23:34:51  <tokai> Eddi|zuHause2: crazy.
23:34:58  <Haclet> Sorki :)
23:34:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> Haclet: small tip: it's "guys", not "gays"
23:35:13  <tokai> gays just means happy ppl, no ?:)
23:35:19  <HMage> lol
23:35:35  <Haclet> gays = OTTD Comunity :)
23:35:42  <HMage> omg
23:35:57  <tokai>
23:36:38  <Haclet> Okej - my mistake :)
23:36:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> Haclet: there's an option to pause the server if there are less than x clients
23:36:50  <Haclet> Hej - I apologise for this word ;)
23:37:45  <Haclet> My english is not good sometimes. In normal speaking (not writting) sometimes people says "G...s" - but I though I wrote correct - but I made biiig mistake ...
23:38:20  <HMage> Haclet: don't worry, we understood what you wanted to say, I just couldn't resist to have some fun along the way ;)
23:38:43  <Haclet> HMage: It's OK - I am still improving my english skills ;)
23:38:53  <Haclet> HMage: so how should be correct write ;)
23:39:27  <tokai> Only homophobias were offended.
23:40:17  * Eddi|zuHause2 was offended :p
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23:40:29  <Haclet> Eddi|zuHause2: I thougt about option - for example - server is running, people can play, time goes noramlly, when all players quit - the time stop, and will start again when players from all company will connect
23:40:35  <Haclet> What do U think ?
23:40:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> that is exactly what it already does
23:40:54  <HMage> well, back to your question, Haclet, the time runs there as usual, unless you configure the server to pause the game with no clients
23:41:50  <Haclet> Eddi|zuHause2: really :) Ups I have some good idea :) :)
23:42:13  <HMage> you can: 1) edit your .cfg file, find a line with 'min_players', and change from 0 to 1 or 2, or more :)
23:42:42  <HMage> 2) open up console on server and write 'min_players 1', you can change 1 to another number.
23:42:50  <Haclet> HMage: echhh - so thats mean I have to learn a lot about OTTD - I tried found this future but I didn't. :/
23:43:34  <Haclet> HMage: But this give only minimum players for start game, right?
23:43:50  <Haclet> But - for example you have below situation:
23:44:03  <HMage> Haclet: this option is not in menu, you have to configure it via console on server or config file. This is a minimum number of players when the game will be unpaused.
23:44:34  <Haclet> 4 players are playing, 2 companies... - there are quit (for example min players are set to 2)
23:45:01  <HMage> If you already know that all those 4 players are going to player there, then set min_players to 4.
23:45:09  <HMage> are going to play*
23:45:13  <Haclet> And now 2 players are connecting but in one company - And game will start, right? But
23:46:06  <Haclet> Yes - I understand - but my question is - is there in OTTD option which allow only start game when player connect with difrent comany
23:46:08  <glx> yes even if they are in the same company the unpause limit is reached so the server unpauses
23:46:11  <Haclet> companies ;)
23:46:36  <Haclet> thx glx
23:46:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> i am always tempted to scroll my own screenshots :p
23:47:00  <glx> me too ;)
23:47:17  <HMage> Haclet: I'm not a developer, but I see no reason. The whole idea of building a company is that it will make profit even when nobody manages it.
23:47:19  <glx> but it opens a popup when I do that
23:47:22  <Haclet> And tell me - how can become OTTD developer ? What is minimal requitments?
23:47:39  <Haclet> HMage: You are right?
23:48:19  <Haclet> !
23:48:20  <Sionide> Haclet, being able to code an effective patch which does something useful
23:48:28  <Eddi|zuHause2>,%204.%20Sep%201925.png
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23:48:53  <Haclet> Sionide: But I have a lot of ideas, but where Can I check what is useful?
23:49:08  <Sionide> can you code C++?
23:49:10  <Haclet> HMage: Yes - but for example I can play ones on week
23:49:16  <Sionide> (i think it's c++ or maybe c)
23:49:43  <Haclet> Sionide: Not beginer, not master - but intermidate with STL
23:49:53  <Sionide> depends on your ideas then i suppose
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23:50:28  <Haclet> HMage: and somebody else can play more often - And he can growing his comapny - and mine is stady until I start play
23:50:50  <Haclet> HMage: I though about option for server - you can switch on or off it :)
23:51:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> you can always manually pause the server
23:51:44  <Haclet> Sionide: thx
23:52:04  <Haclet> Eddi|zuHause2: right, if you have access to it.
23:52:35  <HMage> Haclet: In my opinion, even if someone becomes more competetive than your company, you'll have to catch up like in real world. That's the challenge.
23:53:04  <HMage> competitive*
23:53:09  <Sionide> Haclet, a web front end to a server would be quite cool perhaps
23:53:21  <Haclet> HMage: I agree with you - its good chalange.
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23:54:11  <Haclet> HMage: It was just my idea and question, and now I have point of view from you, and is not like mine - thats is OK.
23:54:54  <Haclet> Sionide: Could you arond - I didn't understand (not enough english skills :P)
23:55:38  <Haclet> HMage: I though that will be good option for server - but another give me some advices which I can do at this time
23:55:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> Haclet: of course you have to have access to the server, you can hardly tell people on other people's servers when to not play the game
23:56:27  <Haclet> Eddi|zuHause2: You are defenetly right.
23:57:06  <HMage> if it's your server and you know everyone you're playing with, just pause the game and communicate with other players so all of you can continue later
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23:57:38  <Haclet> HMage: right! The simple way is the best way.
23:57:49  *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
23:58:33  <HMage> and then later, start the server, pause it if it's not, wait until everyone joins, then unpause
23:58:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> you can also make cron jobs to pause and unpause the game at certain times
23:59:36  <Haclet> Yes, but if I understand correctly. The first client who will connect to server - can be administaror of server, right?
23:59:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> so you can run a server that only unpauses on saturday and sunday, or only on the evenings of weekdays, or similar
23:59:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't think so

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