Log for #openttd on 1st June 2007:
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05:16:06  <mikk36> hmm... haven't touched oem preinstallation cd before :)
05:16:43  <mikk36> reveived 2 of those yesterday, one for server 2003 and one for XP Pro
05:16:48  <mikk36> received*
05:17:07  <hylje> :o
05:17:09  <hylje> wut
05:17:31  <mikk36> :)
05:17:37  <mikk36> i wonder what's on them
05:17:53  <mikk36> ofc i also got the cd's with usual installation too
05:18:01  <mikk36> 1 server 2003 r2 and 3 xp pro's
05:18:13  <mikk36> one xp should come today too, it was out of stock
05:18:36  <mikk36> now i've got a week to build and configure 4 pc's and 1 server
05:18:44  <mikk36> for my company
05:19:24  <hylje> antivirus, group policy, firewalls..
05:19:30  <hylje> enjoy your trip
05:19:42  <mikk36> :)
05:20:17  <mikk36> luckily we already have a server 2000 here already so i'll be moving it's domain system from there to the new one
05:20:30  <mikk36> we're doing it because the 2000 is illegal :)
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05:20:40  <mikk36> and now buying legal software
05:20:51  <hylje> omg?
05:21:14  <hylje> corporate (un)productivity software!
05:22:40  <mikk36> well, i work in a printing house, and that expensive printing software only works on either win or osx
05:22:49  <mikk36> and here in estonia, osx aint that popular
05:24:56  <hylje> yay for interoperability
05:27:07  <mikk36> it wasn't that expensive actually, not as much as i expected :)
05:27:38  <hylje> vista :p
05:27:41  <mikk36> ~110 € for each xp and 8000/15.6 € for the server
05:27:46  <mikk36> 2003 r2 std
05:28:07  <mikk36> ~500 €
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08:29:50  <kaan> goodmorning :)
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08:51:02  <IOO> %password
08:52:08  <Maedhros> err, what?
08:53:02  <IOO> was trying to get the pasword for the public ottd game
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09:24:07  <kaan> my password is: ILuvPeter1138
09:25:12  <kaan> oh, i thought we had to write our passwords here *blush* :P
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09:25:42  <bubersson> Is there any way I can use this light german tram tracks??
09:26:09  <Rubidium> load it as newgrf
09:26:16  <Rubidium> in a recent nightly
09:27:22  <bubersson> ok, I have compiled from svn yesterday, but when I tried to load it as newgrf it says loaded, but I can't see them
09:28:21  <kaan> where did you look for them?
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09:29:15  <Maedhros> have you loaded any other tracks afterwards by accident?
09:29:57  <bubersson> where? downloaded them from tt-forums then tried to replace the original one... then when I run openttd.exe, it fails to load with some error...
09:30:19  <bubersson> then I've renamed it to tramtrk1.grf and tried to load it as normal grf
09:30:38  <bubersson> it loads, but graphics is still the same
09:31:32  <Rubidium> bubersson: that german tram track thing is a newgrf and you can't "just" load a newgrf as a normal grf
09:32:21  <bubersson> so how should I load that?
09:33:25  <Rubidium> as a you would load a normal newgrf...
09:34:05  <bubersson> I thought that if I replace the original tramtrkw.grf with the german one it will  works... but it don't :)
09:34:49  <Maedhros> yeah, compulsory grfs aren't newgrfs, so they're not interchangeable :)
09:34:52  <bubersson> I load normal newgrf through ottd gui?
09:35:22  <Maedhros> yup (or you should be able to add it in the newgrf-static section instead if you like)
09:36:06  <bubersson> hmhm... but thats what I did and it still doesn't work
09:36:41  <bubersson> maybe conflict with another grfs?
09:36:52  <bubersson> (newgrfs)
09:37:47  <Rubidium> let me guess, you changed the GRFs in the intro menu and then loaded a savegame?
09:38:44  <bubersson> nope...  just new game...
09:40:25  <bubersson> Wow, now I tried to add it as static and it works :)
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09:41:10  <bubersson> so I don't know where was the problem but seems to be solved in my game...
09:44:24  <peter1138> did new game mean scenario?
09:45:16  <bubersson> no... < thats how it behaves when loaded non-static
09:45:34  <bubersson> I have to go... so thanks for your help
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10:04:43  <Maedhros> kaan: for your multi-engine normalisation patch, you really really don't want to call TrainLocoHandler for anything that isn't the front engine
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10:07:18  <TheJosh> hey all
10:07:40  <Maedhros> hi TheJosh
10:08:55  <TheJosh> Hey how have you been long time no see
10:10:33  <Maedhros> i've been busy with exams, which wasn't so fun...
10:10:39  <TheJosh> ung
10:10:47  <Maedhros> but now they're finished so i'm busy with articulated road vehicles instead :)
10:11:11  <TheJosh> hey you wanna play some openttd? i am waiting for a compeditor in #openttdcoop
10:12:03  <Maedhros> i'm not really up for it at the moment, sorry :(
10:12:11  <TheJosh> ung
10:12:23  <TheJosh> ive started working on a new patch (clone quantityes)
10:12:31  <peter1138> another one?
10:12:32  <TheJosh> although it may become clone gui
10:12:38  <peter1138> they've all been rejected so far
10:12:47  <TheJosh> all what?
10:12:54  <peter1138> clone quantity
10:13:00  <TheJosh> really?
10:13:26  <TheJosh> i was going to have a proper gui so there is a button for copy orders or shared orders
10:14:04  <TheJosh> so clone quantities is a bad idea? ok ill abandon it.
10:14:26  <TheJosh> ill move onto another one then
10:14:47  <boekabart> TheJosh: how many vehicles do you normally clone at one time??
10:14:49  <boekabart> 2,3 maybe?
10:15:03  <boekabart> to get a route started
10:15:10  <TheJosh> i somtimes make 30 busses
10:15:16  <TheJosh> at once
10:15:39  <TheJosh> or 15 trains
10:15:58  <boekabart> the only thing I don't like it that when using clone, the new vehicle DOES pop up a window. Not necessary, no need to edit orders, and starting can be done from depot
10:16:10  <boekabart> That removed would do the trick I think.
10:16:47  <TheJosh> but a gui would be cool. it may encorurage people to use shared orders
10:21:52  <TheJosh> meh. what do you think of 'randomise orders'. good for busses. you make a heap of busses, give them all orders to every station, and then randomise the orders of them all and volia! you have a bunch of unique routes. you could even make it simple and have it 'random skip' or soemthing
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10:27:54  <TheJosh> boekabart: you wanna play openttd w/ me?
10:28:00  <TheJosh> anyone for that matter?
10:28:12  <boekabart> TheJosh: want to, but @work
10:28:21  <boekabart> really can't do that...
10:29:22  <TheJosh> dang
10:29:30  <TheJosh> australia sucks for internet games
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10:33:03  <mikk36> lol
10:33:55  <Rubidium> TheJosh: just change your biorithm a little; go to bed just after you come from work and get out of bed a lot earlier :)
10:34:15  <boekabart> Daylight is overrated anyway
10:34:36  <Rubidium> daylight saving even more ;)
10:34:48  <boekabart> by definition
10:34:48  <TheJosh> i only got home from work an hour ago. its just turned 8:00
10:35:09  <boekabart> go to bed, get up after 8 hours then the EU part of us will be ready to play
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10:35:20  <Rubidium> so, get to bed, sleep 8 hours and return at European ``prime time''
10:35:53  <boekabart> just turned 8?? here it's X:35   what time zone are you in??
10:37:05  <mikk36> x:35 ?
10:37:36  <mikk36> (13:37:25) •boekabart!~wboekabar@• 12:37
10:37:47  <TheJosh> i am in +9.5 or so (central australian time)
10:37:54  <TheJosh> so 8:30 am is prime time?
10:38:02  <boekabart> 9.5!? that exists? hihi
10:38:07  <mikk36> why does it show +2 GMT then ?
10:38:21  <mikk36> ahh, nothing
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11:17:54  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r10007 /trunk/src/ (train.h train_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Add some asserts to IsFrontEngine and friends to ensure that only trains use them.
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11:24:14  <mikk36> yay, cases arrived at last
11:24:22  <mikk36> now i can start building those 5 pc's
11:26:29  <geoffk> should of done this what i did that box hosts 2 systems
11:27:07  <boekabart> geoffk: how does it get rid of its heat?
11:27:25  <geoffk> not very well, but htey are only slow its vented a little
11:28:03  <geoffk> those boards have no problem they dont get too hot, but i wouldn;t fancy a fast system in there
11:28:38  <geoffk> i was going to build in airconditioning but i not used it for a while, it looked pretty interesting though when it was running
11:33:55  <boekabart> geoffk: A hole in the bottom and one in the top-back should do the trick
11:34:01  <boekabart> air will flow automatically
11:34:25  <boekabart> maybe a big 12cm fan on 5V pushing the air up from that bottom hole for extra flow
11:35:31  <geoffk> there is a fair gap in the back of the cab leading to the left side already plus 2 round holes in the back
11:41:15  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r10008 /trunk/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Move a couple of functions related to articulated vehicles to a file of their own.
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12:03:24  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r10009 /trunk/src/ (10 files): -Codechange: Add and use Vehicle::IsPrimaryVehicle to replace individual checks depending on the vehicle type.
12:05:47  <peter1138> go maedhros go!
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12:19:15  <boekabart> is this old: "The only time Microsoft will make a product that doesn't suck is when they will start manufacturing vacuum cleaners."
12:19:32  <Maedhros> i saw it a few years ago...
12:19:47  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r10010 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Fix (r10008): Add articulated_vehicles.h to the project files.
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12:26:27  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r10011 /trunk/src/ (articulated_vehicles.cpp articulated_vehicles.h): -Fix (r10008): Set the right svn properties on articulated_vehicles.h and correct a file comment.
12:26:32  <Maedhros> le sigh
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12:29:21  <peter1138> :D
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13:17:56  <Smoky555> hi
13:18:20  <Smoky555> i compile 10006 from trunk, but i can't build trams... how?
13:19:04  <glx> do you have a tram grf?
13:20:02  <Smoky555> yes, tramtrkw.grf is in DATA folder dy default
13:20:19  <glx> you need a grf for vehicles
13:20:40  <Smoky555> glx can you tell me, where i can get it?
13:20:50  <glx> grfcrawler
13:20:52  <Belugas> grfcrawler
13:20:56  <Belugas> hehhe
13:20:58  <Smoky555> thanks :)
13:21:12  <boekabart> Smoky555: or search forum for 'german tram set' or czech tram
13:21:14  <Belugas> or search the forums ;)
13:21:22  <Belugas> damned...
13:21:31  <Belugas> i'm always one second too late
13:21:34  <peter1138> is the german tram set available?
13:21:40  <Belugas> guess i need coffee to speed up typing :D
13:21:46  <boekabart> ah.. I found it ;)
13:22:04  <peter1138> says v0.5, but...
13:22:11  <boekabart> gertramsw.grf
13:22:14  <peter1138> old 'light' set, maybe...
13:23:12  <boekabart> That is 0.4.2
13:23:20  <boekabart> The one that's available on forum
13:23:21  <peter1138> yeah
13:23:41  <boekabart> I can't believe that works... openttd.exe -v win32-32bpp  ;)
13:24:06  <peter1138> yes yes, not quite in the scheme of things though
13:24:33  <boekabart> not so sure. 0 duplicate code
13:25:23  <boekabart> 1 abstract blitter, 1 generic blitter with template<class PixelT>
13:25:35  <boekabart> 1 empty blitter for dedictated and null
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13:29:06  <boekabart> ha, dedicated is actually not blitting anything at all now
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13:30:47  <peter1138> awww, you broke dedicated screenshots ;(
13:31:23  <boekabart> yep!
13:31:58  <boekabart> although for that it could just make another blitter (8 or 32bpp) on the spot, make the shot and delete it again
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13:33:32  <boekabart> cool, removed that allocation of dedicated video memory too, still works
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13:43:52  <hylje> oww
13:43:53  <hylje> great!
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14:40:21  <boekabart> WEEKEND!!!!!!!!!
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15:14:48  <Phazorx> evening
15:14:56  <Phazorx> openttd: /home/josh/svn/trunk/src/road_map.h:22: RoadTileType GetRoadTileType(TileIndex): Assertion `IsTileType(t, MP_STREET)' failed.
15:15:01  <Phazorx> r10002
15:17:49  <Noldo> how to reproduce?
15:19:07  <Phazorx> unfortunately i wasnt involved in action at that moment
15:19:15  <Phazorx> not trams related it seems tho
15:19:50  <Maedhros> unfortunately that assert doesn't tell us much
15:20:06  <glx> isn't it fixed in 10003?
15:20:22  <Noldo> !commit 10003
15:20:42  <Phazorx> "it" ?
15:21:01  <glx> @openttd commit 10003
15:21:04  <DorpsGek> glx: Commit by rubidium :: r10003 trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp (2007-05-31 18:11:39 UTC)
15:21:05  <DorpsGek> glx: -Fix (r9999): crash when vehicle had to turn on a bridge.
15:21:35  <hylje> irony
15:22:02  <Phazorx> hylje: is that ours bug?
15:23:30  <Noldo> glx: no, it's not fixed
15:26:12  <Maedhros> can you tell us how to reproduce it, or provide a savegame?
15:26:58  <Noldo> make a rv turn on the bridge end
15:27:28  <glx> which rev?
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15:27:33  <hylje> 10002
15:27:54  <Phazorx> bridge end?
15:27:58  <Noldo> 10011
15:28:24  <Noldo> Phazorx: yes, the first or last tile of the bridge that is sometimes sloped
15:28:32  <Phazorx> rgr
15:29:18  <glx> Noldo: ok got the assert
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15:30:14  <Phazorx> okay it crashed again
15:31:03  <Phazorx> Maedhros/glx: turn in middle of bridge
15:31:07  <Phazorx> is that fixed?
15:31:10  <Maedhros> not yet
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15:31:33  <Phazorx> can it be avoided with one way bridges ?
15:31:44  <Phazorx> or no road vehicles is a better choice
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15:33:28  <Noldo> I don't get how that would happend without forcing the rv to turn
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15:34:05  <Phazorx> not to turn
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15:34:15  <Maedhros> maybe there's no road at the end of a bridge?
15:34:15  <Phazorx> one way bridge should not allow turning
15:34:28  <Noldo> Maedhros: that doesn't cause the assert
15:35:14  <Maedhros> well, it did here. it seems to be trying to get the disallowed road directions, which is only valid for road tiles
15:35:17  <Maedhros> not bridges
15:36:03  <Phazorx> so... no bridges for now i guess
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15:44:01  <glx> hmm nice it asserts when there's an half road at the end of bridge
15:44:11  <hylje> wut
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15:54:16  <kaan> hello
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16:06:46  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r10012 /trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r9999): crash when forcing road vehicles to turn
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16:21:14  <Phazorx> glx: is that problem i mentioned?
16:21:40  <glx> yes
16:21:50  <Phazorx> thanks, we'll try that
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16:25:02  <stillunknown> Bjarni: ping
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16:33:50  <Wolf01> hello
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16:37:06  <Wolf01> yeah, different signals on the same tile
16:37:14  <peter1138> YEAH
16:37:22  <peter1138> glx == god, clearly
16:37:26  <peter1138> (it was glx, right?)
16:37:33  <glx> yep was me :)
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16:37:53  <peter1138> i could've done it, but i'm just too lazy
16:38:31  <glx> it was easy with all accessors done
16:38:40  <peter1138> true
16:38:43  <Wolf01> finally we can own of those diagonal rails :D
16:38:59  <Wolf01> *-of
16:39:29  <peter1138> maybe dalestan will complain that it's forced on him
16:39:38  <peter1138> !seen dalestan
16:39:38  <_42_> peter1138, DaleStan ( was last seen quitting #openttd 1 week 4 days 12 hours 13 minutes ago (21.05. 04:25) stating "Ping timeout: 480 seconds" after spending 5 hours 14 minutes there.
16:39:43  <peter1138> o_O
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16:40:19  <Wolf01> now i need only unlinked double way signals
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16:41:20  <Wolf01> i can see also articulated road vehicles, good one that too!
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16:43:47  <peter1138> not yet
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17:05:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r10013 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files): (log message trimmed)
17:05:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-06-01 19:05:03
17:05:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: american - 7 fixed by WhiteRabbit (7)
17:05:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 1 fixed by arnaullv (1)
17:05:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: danish - 37 fixed, 7 changed by ThomasA (44)
17:05:40  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 7 fixed, 1 changed by glx (8)
17:05:40  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: italian - 7 fixed, 1 changed by lorenzodv (8)
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17:20:36  <Noldo> I made a 64*64 map with as many cities as possible, I got 2
17:20:51  <Noldo> one with about 200 people and other with 18
17:21:03  <Wolf01> i was lucky, i got 3
17:21:13  <|2rB> hehe
17:21:14  <|2rB> lol
17:21:26  <|2rB> 64x64 actualy...
17:21:36  <|2rB> havent tried that one yet..
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17:21:55  <Noldo> It seems I over invested and this population can't support my cost structure
17:23:11  <Rubidium> you might be able to get 9 on it (IIRC)
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17:23:54  <stillunknown> If i want to count the number of trains on a tile, can i use an existing facility?
17:24:08  <Noldo> I deleted road depot to save in properity maintenance
17:24:49  <Noldo> Wow! the towns are really reshaping the map
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17:25:02  <|2rB> :)
17:25:21  <Noldo> no it wasn't to towns it was the competitors
17:25:38  <Maedhros> stillunknown: VehicleFromPos might work
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17:25:48  <Noldo> I thinks it can't make any money so it just terraforms
17:26:01  <stillunknown> Maedhros: It doesn't seemed geared towards to counting.
17:27:25  <Noldo> ai builds really fast on the small map
17:27:58  <Noldo> :D now one of tha AI decided aircrafs are the way to go
17:28:14  <Maedhros> stillunknown: well, you could probably make it count things, but it's not ideal i suppose
17:28:29  <Maedhros> otherwise you could try FOR_ALL_VEHICLES(v) and check v->tile...
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17:29:59  <stillunknown> Maedhros: I think accessing the vehicle hash is a better alternative to checking all vehicles
17:42:27  <Noldo> hmm, there's no point in upgrading that bus because the that 300 pounds more goes straing from the profit
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17:44:58  <stillunknown> Is TileX(tile) * TILE_SIZE, the 1st (out of 16th tile indices) or the 0th?
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17:59:07  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10014 /trunk/src/road_map.h: -Fix: roads became automatically one way in the scenario editor.
17:59:23  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10015 /trunk/src/road_gui.cpp: -Fix: one could build (only) tram tracks when that was the last built roadtype (in a normal game).
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18:13:40  <Zuu> Which h-file is recommendated to get uint16?
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18:34:55  <Digitalfox> I'm having a BIG problem, with my home server.. One of my SATA disks is giving me some strange errors when coying files, I have now activated SMART, so i can see what's wrong, but since my windows 200 thinks the disk is some kind of sczi disk ( blame the MSI driver ), no smart software is able to dtect the disk
18:35:09  <Digitalfox> *windows 2003 SP2
18:36:09  <Digitalfox> My BIOS only let me activate SATA, but doesn't let me say i don't want RAID chip activated, even when i don't have any raid made, is just a simple disk
18:38:16  <Digitalfox> Any help? :\
18:38:17  <Noldo> get knoppix live -> boot it -> run the tests -> be happy
18:38:56  <Digitalfox> Are you sure it will work, even if the board makes software think its a sczi disk?
18:39:33  <Digitalfox> And has the knoppix live already have smart tools?
18:40:49  * boekabar1 poors himself a nice big glass of Mountain Dew
18:41:03  <Noldo> I'm quite sure it has smartctl
18:41:10  <Digitalfox> ok
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18:41:39  <boekabart> aaaaaaaaaaaaah!
18:41:44  <Noldo> atleast you could try that way
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18:42:11  <Digitalfox> But you get the picture? The problem is that the driver supplied from MSI for this SATA Chip, makes the disk's look like sczi disks..
18:42:23  <Digitalfox> But i will try now
18:42:25  <Digitalfox> ;)
18:42:34  <Noldo> I'm starting to think that making profit with busses is harder than it seems
18:42:39  <boekabart> Digitalfox: windows will treat all non-standard-bios-ata disks as 'scsi'
18:42:55  <boekabart> so if a special driver for your sata controller is in use, it will look like this
18:43:25  <Digitalfox> So, how do i make any smart software read the smart from disks?
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18:43:42  <boekabart> hm, If I recall correctly, the last time I tried it on my hdd it worked
18:43:55  * boekabart checks his device manager
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18:44:36  <boekabart> no, not scsi, SATA AHCI
18:44:48  <boekabart> then it must be the RAID option i guess...
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18:45:05  <boekabart> try knoppix / ubuntu liveCD
18:45:30  <Digitalfox> Yeah i will
18:45:35  <Digitalfox> thanks :)
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18:48:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> sata, scsi, raid... most OSes will treat those the same
18:48:53  <boekabart> the OS does
18:49:00  <boekabart> but the SMART tools may not
18:49:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> so what? select the option that is available (from those three)
18:49:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> or get a new version
18:49:40  <boekabart> anyway... I read that google did a huge survey and found out that SMART is pretty much useless
18:49:56  <hylje> in the google scale yes
18:50:04  <hylje> its cheaper to buy new hardware than to replace it
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18:55:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> btw, last time i tried knoppix, i did not get it to find my sata drive
18:57:26  <Digitalfox> Eddi|zuHause2: Are you sure?? I'm downloading it right now... If not i'll waste a CD
18:57:32  <Phazorx> hylje, you got admin access to coop box?
18:57:35  <hylje> no
18:57:38  <Phazorx> :/
18:57:43  <Phazorx> 10015 would be nice
18:58:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, i'm pretty sure it's able to, but i did not manage it...
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19:20:14  <Biff> hmm, the download page on seems to be broken
19:20:24  <Biff> no link to a functioning version
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19:22:26  <Belugas> What exactly do you mean?
19:22:29  <Sleepie> <Biff> hmm, the download page on seems to be broken <-- works for me
19:22:49  <Belugas> what is your definition of a "functioning version"?
19:23:09  <Biff> one that works on ubuntu
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19:26:00  <Belugas> "In addition, binaries for different Linux distributions, MorphOS, Windows 95, 98 and ME, Windows64, etc. are available here. "
19:26:08  <Belugas>
19:26:33  <Biff> yep, there i find win32, win64 os x
19:26:37  <Belugas> you did not read it all, it seems ;)
19:26:38  <Biff> and win9x
19:27:28  <Belugas> mmmh...
19:28:48  <Belugas> as i don't use any releases, i can't answer.
19:29:17  <Belugas> will have to wait for Rubidium, TrueBrain for one.
19:29:36  <Biff> i usually use svn to
19:29:37  <Sleepie> you can compile it from the source version
19:29:53  <Wolf01> lollollol
19:29:59  <Biff> yup, but it would be nice for people to be able to download a deb
19:30:15  <Biff> not everyone knows how to compile source code :)
19:30:20  <glx> Biff: it's not done yet
19:30:39  <Biff> its done in 2 minutes :-P
19:30:40  <Sleepie> of course, iirc there was a little discussion about it on the forums lately
19:30:50  <Biff> i can put up the deb file someplace, if you like
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19:31:50  <Biff> hmm, takes a while longer on this machine then on my c2d to compile
19:32:46  <Thomas[NL]>
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19:33:24  <Thomas[NL]> using the instructions on the wiki
19:33:29  <Biff> thanks, but too late :-P
19:34:08  <Thomas[NL]> damn :P
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19:35:49  <kaan> Wolf01: tough job report ;)
19:35:59  <Wolf01> :)
19:36:25  <Belugas> We'll wait for the "official compiler" to show up
19:36:34  <Belugas> thanks for pointing it, Biff
19:36:57  <Biff> good idea
19:38:49  <Wolf01> kaan, does the buildottd download all the sources every time it compiles?
19:52:18  <Sacro> you want compilation
19:52:22  <Sacro> ?
19:52:37  <stillunknown> Have airplanes been rebalanced in the last half year?
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20:03:50  <dihedral> dsync error in 0.5.2RC2!
20:03:56  <dihedral> of any interest?
20:04:11  <peter1138> yeah
20:04:22  <peter1138> what is 0.5.2RC2?
20:04:34  <dihedral> 2 = 1
20:04:38  <dihedral> :-P
20:04:49  <stillunknown> Do airplanes actually travel fast these days?
20:05:05  <stillunknown> (trunk)
20:05:25  <peter1138> ok
20:05:28  <peter1138> use 0.5.2 then
20:05:29  <dihedral>
20:05:37  <dihedral> shall update during the weekend
20:05:42  <peter1138> it is the weekend
20:05:54  <dihedral> exactly...
20:05:59  <dihedral> some time during
20:06:07  <dihedral> more precisely: tomorrow
20:06:08  <Zuu> stillunknown: I think so, at least in the start screen.
20:06:40  <Zuu> I haven't actually built any own aircrafts in any recent trunk-version.
20:06:46  <dihedral> prob early afternoonish
20:07:35  <Belugas> stillunknown, Zuu : they all travel at warp speed.  Only wasp sound is missing ;)
20:08:39  <Sleepie> any plans to make it configurable by some factors?
20:09:41  <Wolf01> i need a "add to group button" in the order list :/
20:10:32  <Belugas> Sleepie: dunno, maybe, not sure... been discussed, if i remember correctly
20:11:57  <stillunknown> Does anyone here have a train based game that overloads their computer? (and they are willing to compile and test a patch)
20:14:03  <Phazorx> define overloads
20:14:09  <dihedral> lol
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20:14:39  <stillunknown> Pushes your cpu to 100%.
20:14:48  <Phazorx>
20:14:53  <stillunknown> Due to very large amounts of trains
20:14:55  <Phazorx> err
20:15:03  <Belugas> game lagging to the outmost boredom
20:15:06  <Phazorx> well it's due to large amount of YAPF
20:15:30  <glx> pile transport is a good test :)
20:15:35  <stillunknown> Ships?
20:15:43  <stillunknown> Because usually yapf should be quite good.
20:16:24  <Phazorx> no ships only trains there
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20:16:28  <Phazorx> ~600 of them
20:16:33  <Phazorx> on single line
20:16:40  <Phazorx> which is 10 lane wide
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20:19:33  <Wolf01> mmmh found another "bug": textboxes, the last character (string length) can be inserted only if is lower-case, because if is upper-case it takes too much space -.-
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20:21:30  <Sleepie> Belugas: yep few month ago:
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20:32:55  <stillunknown> I've done another attempt at reducing collision checking, reduction from 13-14% to 0.5% of the cpu time (measured by profiling).
20:33:13  <stillunknown> Cost: 2 bits in m6
20:33:35  <stillunknown> Measured with:
20:34:49  <peter1138> for all vehicle types?
20:35:12  <stillunknown> rail
20:36:13  <Phazorx> stillunknown: try
20:36:25  <peter1138> does it do away with _vehicle_pos_hash for this purpose?
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20:37:15  <stillunknown> peter1138: no
20:37:57  <stillunknown> The concept is simple, every tile "knows" if it contains: 0, 1, 2, 3 or more trains
20:38:07  <stillunknown> more than 1 -> collision checking activated
20:38:28  <stillunknown> more than 3, when leaving tile check if you are number 3 and can reduce the count to 2
20:38:54  <stillunknown> Hence the costs of 2 bits.
20:39:22  <stillunknown> Anything (ideas) you had in my, peter1138?
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20:39:57  <peter1138> i don't see why the cost of looking in the hash should be so expensive
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20:40:45  <peter1138> hmm
20:40:52  <peter1138> cos it scans an area...
20:41:59  <peter1138> 174, 104, 294 and 56 look pretty arbitrary
20:42:55  <stillunknown> Were are you looking?
20:43:27  <stillunknown> (in the code)
20:43:35  <peter1138> in VechielFromPos()
20:43:40  <peter1138> but spelt correctly
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20:44:57  <stillunknown> That's not even the biggest issue currently.
20:45:04  <stillunknown> The FindTrainCollideEnum is
20:45:35  <peter1138> no, that's a tiny function
20:45:38  <stillunknown> Although it does contribute in the problem
20:45:54  <peter1138> FindTrainCollideEnum is a problem *because* VehicleFromPos calls it many times
20:45:55  <eekee> pathfinding checks for possible collisions now? I thought it just let them run into eachother
20:46:12  <peter1138> eekee: no, collision detection checks for possible collisions...
20:46:21  <eekee> o ok
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20:47:12  <stillunknown> peter1138: I find the vehicle from pos function not very transparant.
20:48:46  <eekee> Actually that doesn't help me understand. Had a multiplayer that got too many trains to run on my Sempron 3400, & turning off npf cleared up the problem entirely (yapf was fine)
20:49:17  <stillunknown> NPF is hungry ;-)
20:49:26  <eekee> seems so :D
20:49:44  <stillunknown> peter1138: How expensive is iterating trough all trains?
20:50:08  <peter1138> fairly
20:50:14  * eekee shakes head & blinks & heads off to bed, possibly to play ottd on the laptop until he falls asleep
20:51:18  <Rubidium> stillunknown: iterating through all trains means iterating through all vehicles (including wagons, rotors, smoke and shadows)
20:52:16  <stillunknown> How high resolution per tile does this hashmap have?
20:54:08  <peter1138> that's what i was wondering
20:54:23  <peter1138> i'm thinking if it's too high a resolution it'll be doing more iterations that necessary
20:54:27  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10016 /branches/noai/ (105 files in 11 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync with trunk r9914:r10015.
20:54:40  <peter1138> otoh, if it's too low you end up checking more vehicles than necessary
20:55:01  <peter1138> maybe it equals out ;)
20:55:21  <stillunknown> Also, there is the possibility it's being smart enough.
20:55:34  <stillunknown> Like checking behind for collisions.
20:56:20  <stillunknown> But i don't quite understand how this hashmap works.
20:56:32  <Zuu> Have configurable keyboard shortcuts been atempted before?
20:56:46  <Zuu> (in OpenTTD)
20:57:05  <peter1138> well, it's just a hashmap
20:57:25  <peter1138> it converts the tileindex to coordinates, then adds a bit all around
20:57:56  <stillunknown> I don't see how this hashmap can be fixed size.
20:57:59  <Belugas> Zuu : i started working on it (a while ago) but have not gone far enough
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20:58:11  <stillunknown> When map are not fixed size.
20:58:25  <Zuu> Belugas: Okay, I've looked a bit into it tonight.
20:58:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> hash tables are always fixed size
20:58:40  <Zuu> Belugas: See
20:58:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> you put lots of complex data into a simple number
20:58:58  <peter1138> stillunknown: well it 'loops'
20:59:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> possibly putting several completely different items in the same category
20:59:29  <stillunknown> I wonder who made this thing.
20:59:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> svn blame :)
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21:00:26  <glx> Eddi|zuHause2: r1 I'm quite sure :)
21:00:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> hehe :)
21:01:19  <peter1138> ttd original most likely
21:01:21  <Belugas> Zuu, up until newindustries is done, i won't touch anything, and i don't have time to even discuss...
21:01:22  <Belugas> sorry...
21:01:42  <Belugas> but keep on thinking and trying, it will still be a step forward
21:01:43  <Zuu> Belugas: Okay, that's fine.
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21:12:21  <bencvt> peter1138: thanks for reviewing that max leveling area patch on the forums
21:12:48  *** alanin is now known as Alanin
21:13:15  <bencvt> enforcing it in the gui certainly is silly now that i look at it again
21:13:41  <bencvt> CmdLevelLand is the correct place, right?
21:13:55  <stillunknown> peter1138: ping
21:15:56  <peter1138> bencvt: most likely yes. the gui bit is fine as well, of course
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21:16:27  <bencvt> okay, thanks.  i'll take another crack at it
21:16:37  <peter1138> stillunknown: hmm?
21:16:56  <stillunknown> I'm here and i've got an idea.
21:17:39  <stillunknown> Has it ever been considered making a special map with subtiles, with only 1 (or a few) bits per subtile
21:18:17  <stillunknown> Making vehicles aware of that, and letting the first trigger the subtile.
21:18:40  <stillunknown> When the second enters boom -> subtile goes into (small) global list.
21:18:56  <stillunknown> Each vehicle checks if it was on the other side of the crash.
21:20:34  <stillunknown> (each tick)
21:21:34  <peter1138> well
21:21:44  <peter1138> that's essentially what the hash does, heh
21:22:00  <stillunknown> Not exactly.
21:22:01  <peter1138> (sub map)
21:22:14  <Zuu> Is there a trick to make svn diff include new files too?  (svn help diff seam to not have any tip on that)
21:22:24  <stillunknown> svn add
21:22:28  <Zuu> Thanks
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21:24:56  <stillunknown> peter1138: But why are there so many collision checks?
21:25:33  <stillunknown> A single one, perhaps 9 (include nearest neighbors) should be enough.
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21:34:26  <Phazorx> alanin: is 40 game not continuable
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21:34:51  <Phazorx> oops ,t
21:35:05  <Phazorx> mt
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21:35:43  <Unaimed> is fruit plantation available in temperate?
21:35:50  <hylje> no
21:35:56  <Unaimed> k
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21:56:00  <SpComb> Logs:
21:56:00  <Sacro> !logs
22:00:44  <Zuu> Rubidium: Why not one huge lookup table? The table will not have any callbacks accosiated to it, it will only contain key-codes. Having several lookup arrays will make configuration (gui+saving settings) more complicated.
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22:02:40  <Rubidium> Zuu: I pressed 1, which "hotkey" did I press? Build rail 1, Build road 1, Build bridge 1, Build ...
22:03:51  <Zuu> That will work exactly as today. Each individual switch-block will be replaced with several if-statements that look in the lookup-table.
22:04:26  <Zuu> Each switch-block reside in the event-processing routines of the individual windowes.
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22:05:38  <Zuu> Exactly one if-statement per case.
22:06:33  <Zuu> The only thing that might be a problem is if if-statments are significantly slower than having a for loop + switch case. But I doubt that.
22:07:27  <Rubidium> Zuu: the problem with those ifs is that they will increase the code duplication
22:08:46  <Zuu> Isn't it enough to soleve that with a inline-function or a Macro?
22:09:08  <Rubidium> no
22:09:09  <Zuu> solve*
22:09:35  <Zuu> Okay.
22:09:38  <Rubidium> because now we do _table[keycode - '1']() and _table[clicked_widget - offset]()
22:09:53  <Rubidium> with ifs that won't work
22:10:43  <Rubidium> with a for loop that tells you what "hotkey" you pressed you can (still) do _table[pressed_hk - hk_offset]()
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22:12:38  <Zuu> Sorry, I don't understand exactly what will not work with ifs.
22:13:17  <Rubidium> with you ifs it would become
22:13:43  <Rubidium> if (_hk[HK_X_1] == pressed_key) _table[0]();
22:13:51  <Rubidium> else if (_hk[HK_X_2] == pressed_key) _table[1]();
22:13:56  <Rubidium> else if (_hk[HK_X_3] == pressed_key) _table[2]();
22:14:01  <Rubidium> else if (_hk[HK_X_4] == pressed_key) _table[3]();
22:14:02  <Rubidium> ....
22:14:30  <Zuu> um, no. not _table[n]();
22:14:41  <Zuu> I never intended to add callbacks.
22:14:54  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:15:05  <Zuu> But that might not be the main point?
22:15:49  <Rubidium> Zuu: look at the rail gui code with respect to keypresses
22:15:58  <Zuu> Okay.
22:16:13  <Rubidium> and look how it compares with the widget click code of that same toolbar
22:19:37  <Zuu> In that loop I'll replace: if (e->we.keypress.keycode == _rail_keycodes[i]) {
22:19:37  <Zuu> with: if ( IsHotkeyAction(e->we.keypress.keycode, _rail_action[i]) ) {
22:20:32  <Zuu> Where IsHotKeyAction is the inline-function that check if any key code accosiated with a specific action matches to event key-code.
22:21:31  <Rubidium> that's a solution (not that it needs to be inlined)
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22:21:57  <Zuu> It could either be a inlined or a macro.
22:22:07  <Zuu> It looks like this currently:
22:22:08  <Zuu>     if (event_keycode == _key_action_table[id].keycode[0] ||
22:22:08  <Zuu>             event_keycode == _key_action_table[id].keycode[1] ||
22:22:08  <Zuu>             event_keycode == _key_action_table[id].keycode[2])
22:22:08  <Zuu>         return true;
22:22:20  <Zuu>     return false;
22:22:33  <Rubidium> but I (and most of the other devs) hate switches to be replaced by big if-cascades
22:23:14  <Zuu> I would also agree on that.
22:23:17  <Rubidium> Zuu: inlined isn't necessary, macros are (at least in this case) a no-go
22:24:44  <Rubidium> inlined would mean the complete function needs to be in a header file, which is absolutely unnecessary
22:24:48  <Zuu> But with your soulution how will multiple hotkey-tables be handled. The code for the configuration GUI plus saving the tables to a config-file will be more complicated with multiple hotkey-tables.
22:25:07  <Zuu> Or do you suggest that each GUI have a offset defined?
22:25:31  <Rubidium> that's possible, with a begin and end per GUI
22:26:19  <Zuu> Would break stuff when you have to insert a new hotkey for a GUI though.
22:26:31  <Rubidium> why?
22:27:23  <Rubidium> you just have to update a few tables (similar to how you add patch options to the config file)
22:27:37  <Zuu> They have to lay in a row in the memory and unless they are stored with some text-ID in config file the config file will be intrepeted wrongly if a new hotkey is added.
22:28:12  <Rubidium> storing them WITH human readable text in the config file is a must
22:28:29  <Rubidium> diff_custom isn't really "user" friendly
22:28:30  <Zuu> Okay, then the problem would not be much a problem then. :)
22:29:02  <Zuu> diff_custom?
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22:30:17  <Zuu> Guess I've proved what you said :)
22:32:21  <Zuu> But I'll look into having a for loop + switch-blocks with a single table using _BEGIN/_ENDs for each GUI.
22:32:54  <Zuu> ... another day though :)
22:35:07  <Rubidium> HotKey hk = GetHotKey(pressed_key, HKG_RAIL);
22:36:06  <Rubidium> where HKG_RAIL is an enumed index into a table that holds the name of the GUI for in the configuration window and the _BEGIN and _ENDs (can just be the HK_RAIL_1 and HK_RAIL_C)
22:38:25  <Zuu> On the ohter hand.... if the configuration GUI should not become a incredible long list of options seperate, we might want to have some seperators in that GUI and then the overhead in code of having seperate tables will not be that big (I guess).
22:39:43  <Zuu> Another thing I had in mind was that it would be good to only have one BUILD_TUNNEL action that is used by both rail and road. That will probably be possible independent on how tables are aranged.
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22:42:01  <Rubidium> Zuu: I think that should be user-configurable
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22:45:42  <Zuu> What should be user-configurable? having rail-tunnel and road tunnel on different keys?
22:46:28  <Zuu> Maybe that, since the default is the same and if a user changes he does that for a reson.
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22:50:45  <Rubidium> exactly
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22:52:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> right, i constantly build the wrong kind of tunnel/bridge... that might change with different hotkeys
22:53:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> oh, and while we are at it, mabe make it possible to declare some hotkeys global
22:53:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> +y
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22:54:09  <Zuu> The changes I currently have in mind will not add global hotkeys.
22:54:32  <Zuu> Since hotkeys are checked in the event routines of each window currently.
22:54:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> there are already global hotkeys
22:55:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> like the 'A' key
22:55:34  <Zuu> No, not really, it is just assigned to the toolbar, which is a window (a special one, but still a window).
22:55:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> that automatically opens the rail toolbar, and selects autorail
22:55:55  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause2: that's a "hotkey" of the main toolbar
22:56:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's close enough ;)
22:57:15  <Zuu> Adding true global hotkeys will require maintaining a list of actions and probably also having action callbacks as action code will be called at more than one place.
22:57:21  <Rubidium> it is basically the only "global" hotkey
22:57:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> but i'd like to configure for example the "level land" key (default 'E') to open up the landscaping toolbar, if it's not open
22:58:14  <Rubidium> that would require much more rewriting
22:58:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, from my point of view, it only needs generalising the functionality of the 'A' key :)
22:59:23  <Rubidium> *and* this configurable hotkey and the global hotkeys should not be merged into a single patch (makes merging much more difficult)
22:59:42  <Zuu> For land-level I'll recomendate to the patch option that opens land-toolbar when you open any of rail/road/.. etc. :)
22:59:47  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause2: from a user's point of view, yes... from any other point of view, no
23:00:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, global hotkeys should be coded on top of the configurable hotkey patch :)
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23:06:15  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r10017 /trunk/ (9 files in 6 dirs): -Add (FS#790): more languages flags for servers
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23:07:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> this week is crazy, lots of long time discussed features totally out of the blue :p
23:10:06  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause2: isn't that the way you like it?
23:10:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> reminds me of lost :)
23:10:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> whenever you think you figured out how it is going on, all theories get totally thrown over :)
23:11:02  *** HMage` [] has joined #openttd
23:11:06  <Zuu> Good night everyone :)
23:11:17  <Sleepie> night zuu
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23:13:19  <Sleepie> I'm amazed by the amount of new (long wanted) features. Great work :)
23:14:45  <Sleepie> I haven't managed it yet to try/play all the new toys ;)
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23:23:50  <roboboy> hello
23:25:45  <roboboy> I just downloaded r10015 and added raichases victorian trams, which caused openttd to complain it cold not find the grf. I did not tuch it after adding it, and I also lost all my grf settings when it crashed
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23:33:26  <roboboy> hm I also noticed it doesnt seem to like the ausland grf or atleast i dont think it does
23:34:11  <Rubidium> hmm, that sounds bad. I had it once too, but it seems I can't reproduce it :(
23:35:05  <Sacro> hey roboboy
23:35:39  <roboboy> same
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23:36:14  <roboboy> im wondering if the crash had something to do with the ausland grf being loaded as it only seems to want to crash with it loaded
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23:44:41  <Sacro>
23:44:45  <Sacro> i recognise that guy...
23:45:37  <Rubidium> roboboy: I guess it has something to do with the GRF, but it shouldn't happen in any case
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