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00:05:34 *** Taikaponi [~Zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )] 00:05:34 *** Zavior [~Zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )] 00:12:37 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-166-77.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 00:30:56 *** Sacro_ [Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 00:30:56 *** Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:31:13 *** Sacro_ [Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:31:22 *** Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 00:53:24 *** bencvt [~bencvt@va-71-53-204-176.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has left #openttd [] 00:59:01 *** dfox [~dfox@r5cv25.net.upc.cz] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 01:00:12 *** dfox [~dfox@r5cv25.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 01:22:46 *** Nigel [~nigel@202.154.148.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:25:08 *** geoff_k [~geoff_k@host81-152-90-185.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has left #openttd [Leaving] 01:28:12 *** SmatZ [~root@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:31:27 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B74F06.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:38:03 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77D83.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:52:08 *** mikk36 [~mikk36@ip0.cab13.ktln.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 01:59:07 *** pyrotechnick [~p@203-206-105-53.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 02:16:02 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 02:17:30 *** Mucht [~Mucht@p57A0F6C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:25:22 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:28:26 *** Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:34:07 *** TheJosh [~josh@d58-104-127-103.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 02:34:25 <TheJosh> hello 02:35:52 <Belugas> hello 02:35:59 <Belugas> nice work you did, btw 02:36:49 <TheJosh> Thankyou. ill take that as you liking it? 02:39:10 <Belugas> yes indeed 02:41:59 <TheJosh> now ofcourse theres the issue of geting it into trunk... :) 02:44:17 <Digitalfox> What issue TheJosh ?? We just need to send some money to belugas, i'm sure he wouldn't mind :) Right Belugas ?? ;) 02:44:25 <Belugas> to be honest, TheJosh, i made myself a commitment to work exclusively on newindustries, which i do at the moment. 02:44:47 <Belugas> until it is done, i won't touch anyting else, no mattter how pleasant or good it may be 02:44:50 <Belugas> sorry... 02:45:00 <Belugas> money? 02:45:02 <Belugas> good! 02:45:04 <Belugas> plenty!! 02:45:09 <TheJosh> so Belugas, do you have paypal? 02:45:29 <TheJosh> whats yoir prefferred currecncy? 02:45:36 <Belugas> in gold :) 02:46:07 <TheJosh> my sisters boyfriend is a jeweller, i can get you some if you want 02:46:14 <TheJosh> few grams 02:50:22 <Belugas> hehhe 02:52:54 <TheJosh> hmm, what other developers are on 02:53:10 * TheJosh wonders the best way to suck up 02:56:28 <TheJosh> so glx... 02:56:42 <glx> hmm? 02:57:20 <TheJosh> im just joking around mainly...you have svn access right? 02:57:27 <TheJosh> do you accept gold? 02:57:41 <glx> yes, but I don't have time :) 02:58:15 <TheJosh> there must be someone here that will swap a commit for gold (or money) 02:58:36 <glx> at that time? 02:58:41 <glx> good luck :) 02:58:56 <TheJosh> what time is it? 02:59:04 <glx> [04:59:04] <TheJosh> what time is it? 02:59:36 <TheJosh> dang...ill come back in a few hours 03:00:03 <TheJosh> what are you doing on the net at 5am? 03:00:33 <glx> heading for my bed :D 03:00:43 <Belugas> as I will shortly :D 03:01:14 <TheJosh> when is a good time for people? tis midday here 03:01:52 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r10231 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Cleanup: MSVC project files 03:02:18 <glx> most devs are in CEST 03:03:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r10232 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: 03:03:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix(r1): _numof_industry_table never was composed of 12 entries. Only 11. 03:03:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: It never hurt before, but it would have... 03:03:14 <TheJosh> CEST where? 03:03:29 <glx> europe 03:03:42 <Belugas> i'm the only one on another continent (north america) 03:04:02 <TheJosh> ah ok. well sleep well 03:04:27 <glx> night all :) 03:04:44 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:05:12 <Belugas> same for me... 03:05:14 <Belugas> night all 03:22:46 *** TheJosh [~josh@d58-104-127-103.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:30:09 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-89-217-30-51.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:57:24 *** nairan [~Maui_key@p5498F549.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 03:58:28 *** Maedhros [~jc@host86-137-64-30.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:40:12 *** TheJosh [~josh@d58-104-127-103.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 05:58:30 *** TheJosh [~josh@d58-104-127-103.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has left #openttd [] 06:04:12 *** Desolator [Desolator@82.79.212.85] has joined #openttd 06:04:21 *** Desolator [Desolator@82.79.212.85] has quit [] 06:12:17 *** |Gekkko| [~Brendan@CPE-58-168-99-207.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:19:18 *** lolman [~lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:23:13 *** Maedhros [~jc@host86-137-64-30.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 06:24:33 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387CF0F.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 06:29:33 *** Maedhros [~jc@host86-137-64-30.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:36:24 *** dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-056-212-225.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 06:38:07 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-89-217-30-51.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 07:11:50 *** maddy [~maddy@88-136-244-96.adslgp.cegetel.net] has joined #openttd 07:18:37 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 07:20:13 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [] 07:20:32 *** Thomas[NL] [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:20:40 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 07:28:18 <dihedral> good morning 07:28:31 <dihedral> seems awfully quiet in here! 07:35:14 <hylje> no 07:35:20 <hylje> it is peaceful 07:36:51 <dihedral> thats a way of putting it 07:37:38 <Rubidium> the silence before the storm? 07:37:45 *** setrodox [setrodox@83-65-234-187.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #openttd 07:37:55 *** maddy [~maddy@88-136-244-96.adslgp.cegetel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:38:45 *** maddy [~maddy@88-136-244-96.adslgp.cegetel.net] has joined #openttd 07:38:47 *** Thomas[NL] [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:38:54 *** Thomas[NL] [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:46:45 <|Gekkko|> I'm here 07:46:51 <|Gekkko|> therefore the world will end 07:47:41 *** Nickman [~nn@d54C1C327.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 07:48:12 *** Maedhros [~jc@host86-137-64-30.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 07:48:47 <hylje> :o 07:57:55 *** Maedhros [~jc@host86-137-64-30.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:00:36 *** Tino|R152 [Tino@52N.UNI-MUENSTER.DE] has joined #openttd 08:05:53 *** Maedhros [~jc@host86-137-64-30.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 08:21:13 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 08:32:52 *** Desolator [Desolator@82.79.212.85] has joined #openttd 08:33:48 *** Desolator [Desolator@82.79.212.85] has quit [] 08:45:12 *** Chris82 [~chris@p579E1E52.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:45:19 <Chris82> good morning 08:45:24 <Chris82> is peter here? :) 08:45:54 <Chris82> just read your reply: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=599123#599123, unfortunately it didn't fix the issue :( 08:46:34 <peter1138> yes 08:46:43 <peter1138> you need to up the saveload version too 08:47:15 <Chris82> I did so, the savegame was made with 66 so I set the CONDVAR to from 66 and the SAVEGAME_VERSION is now 67 in saveload.cpp 08:47:18 <Chris82> but I still get the error 08:48:50 <Chris82> this seems very odd anyway, which unknown tag can the savegame containt when the old setting was S (i.e. do not store in savegame) 08:49:43 <peter1138> huh? 08:49:57 <peter1138> you need to set the CONDVAR to from 67 08:50:02 <peter1138> as it didn't exist in 66 08:50:19 <Chris82> ah ok :D 08:50:22 <Chris82> let me try that 08:52:22 <Chris82> perfect that did the job, thx for the quick help so early in the morning =) 08:53:05 <Phazorx> hmm... can i profile ottd within mingw? 08:54:18 *** Mucht [~Mucht@p57A0F6C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 08:57:09 <peter1138> probably 08:58:25 <Rubidium> depends on whether you can actually profile anything in mingw ;) 08:59:51 <|Gekkko|> the windows version is MinGW? 09:01:13 *** Zr40 [~Zr40@zr40.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 09:01:27 <Chris82> Does anybody know how to change the default size of a window with the better graphs patch? 09:01:42 <Chris82> The standard windows seem pretty tiny on a big screen when opened 09:02:47 <Phazorx> Rubidium: that exactly is my question 09:03:39 <Maedhros> Chris82: look for the static const Widget _<name> and WindowDesc arrays, and change the width and height there 09:03:47 <Phazorx> |Gekkko|: yes, w32 09:03:59 <Rubidium> Phazorx: sounds like a question for some mingw specialists and I don't think we've got them here 09:04:12 <Phazorx> Kaan? 09:04:21 <Chris82> thx, I think I found the correct line :) 09:04:53 <Maedhros> Chris82: you'll have to change all the widget widths and heights too 09:04:59 <Maedhros> yay for pixel-based guis ;) 09:05:25 <Phazorx> yay for search and replace too :) 09:06:01 <Chris82> +static const WindowDesc _history_window_desc = { 09:06:01 <Chris82> + WDP_AUTO, WDP_AUTO, 640, 256, 09:06:10 <Chris82> I think this is the line for width and height? 09:06:31 <Chris82> it should draw all of the graph windows since they all open with the same size by default 09:07:41 <Maedhros> it should do, perhaps, but i'm pretty sure it doesn't ;) 09:16:02 *** TheJosh [~josh@d58-104-127-103.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 09:16:05 <TheJosh> hey all 09:25:37 *** Nickman is now known as Nickman^Away 09:28:33 <Chris82> Maedhros: Haha well that partially did what I wanted, it only increased the size of the graph itself 09:28:39 <TheJosh> hey i am just interested, whats the demographic of players using different operating systems? 09:28:50 <Chris82> the window has still the same size, so the borders are smaller than the graph and also the title bar 09:29:36 <TheJosh> brb 09:30:22 <Rubidium> TheJosh: very hard to determine; most Windows/OSX people download the binaries, most linux/unix users compile directly from subversion 09:31:38 *** tokai|ni [~tokai@p54B81C34.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:31:54 <Biff> the linux-binaries takes some time to come out, so you often have to compile 09:32:52 <Chris82> Rubidium: Then I am very constrasty to other people :D I am Windows fanatic, but I only compile OTTD myself :D 09:33:18 *** tokai|ni [~tokai@p54B8179C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 09:33:30 <Phazorx> i tihnk that is easy to determine amongsts active players by putting a poll on download page 09:34:11 <Rubidium> Phazorx: doesn't work, because a lot of people (especially linux) compile straight from subversion and therefor never see that page 09:34:59 <Phazorx> svn probably has stats too 09:35:27 <Rubidium> don't think it tells you the operating system 09:36:08 <Caemyr> Chris82: this is the whole beauty of open source software 09:36:14 <Caemyr> to compile it yourself 09:37:07 *** |Gekkko| is now known as Gekkko 09:37:41 <Caemyr> i`m also a WinNT fanboy, but i compile each new rev of ReactOS myself, even though it takes quite a lot of time... 09:37:55 <Caemyr> i`m getting things ready to compile OTTD as well 09:38:38 <Rubidium> setting up a working build environment under windows is pretty tricky, unless you use buildottd ofcourse 09:38:59 <Caemyr> you have a building environment? 09:39:06 <Caemyr> for win32/gcc? 09:40:39 <Rubidium> well, a user made it. You can find it on the forum and sf.net 09:42:22 <Caemyr> if only it works, i cant ask for more 09:42:27 <Caemyr> what gcc can be used? 09:42:44 <Rubidium> "any" 09:42:53 <Caemyr> ah:) 09:42:59 <Caemyr> great thx 09:43:02 <Rubidium> as long as it's gcc-2.95 or more, but 4 is probably best 09:43:09 <Gekkko> can the Win32 version be compiled from GNU/Linux? 09:43:10 <Caemyr> yeah 09:43:15 <Caemyr> 3.4.5 was pretty buggy 09:43:19 <Gekkko> what about GNU/Hurd 09:43:20 <Gekkko> :P 09:43:36 <Noldo> Rubidium: 2.95 might not be good if someone has used stdlib containers 09:43:44 <Noldo> c++ stdlib that is 09:43:56 <Maedhros> it works - the morphos port is compiled with it 09:44:27 <Biff> Chris82: you compile windows yourself? 09:44:28 <Biff> ;) 09:44:41 <Rubidium> gcc 2.95 gives a big load of warnings though 09:45:02 <Chris82> Biff: Yes ;) *jk* 09:45:23 <Chris82> An operating system is nothing that should be open source. 09:45:33 <Caemyr> i`m still amazed seeing what you`ve done with good old ttdlx 09:45:41 <Biff> Chris82: why not? 09:46:05 <Chris82> I am primarily absolutely against open source. Games like OTTD is something ok, but Open Source Anti Virus Tools, Firewall, or even Operating Systems, noooo way I am ever gonna use that. 09:46:23 <Gekkko> Chris82: go away 09:46:24 <Gekkko> >_> 09:46:27 <Noldo> your loss 09:46:29 <Biff> Chris82: so, if the source code of windows would be open, you would delete windows? 09:46:38 <Chris82> Yes, then I'd use Mac OS X 09:46:42 <Gekkko> why 09:46:52 <Gekkko> Mac OS X is partly Open Source 09:46:57 <Chris82> I don't like the idea of every hacker in the world knowing the source code of all software I use 09:46:59 <Gekkko> under a BSD licence 09:47:01 <Noldo> Gekkko: mostly even 09:47:07 <Biff> Chris82: go on, delete it. its partly open source already, alot of students etc have access to the source code of windows 09:47:09 <Gekkko> lol Chris82 09:47:16 <Gekkko> reverse engineering 09:47:23 <Gekkko> you wonder how you have your machine dying. 09:47:28 <Noldo> Chris82: if it's well coded the source won't help 09:47:34 <Chris82> I am computer science student, but it would be new to me that I get Windows Source Code access :D 09:47:47 <Gekkko> seems that you are in the wrong profession 09:47:51 <Gekkko> or going towards it anywho 09:47:52 <Noldo> Chris82: is it's not well coded hiding the source won't help in protecting you 09:48:17 <Gekkko> lol Noldo: Windows secret to security is the //fixme written all through out their source code 09:48:25 <Gekkko> could you imagine Vista written in ASM? 09:48:36 <Chris82> Assembler? 09:48:49 <Noldo> Chris82: And can you tell if windows is well coded? 09:48:57 <Biff> i call troll :-) 09:49:21 <Chris82> No I can't tell because I don't even have the skills to code anything even closely as complex as Windows. 09:49:34 <peter1138> lol 09:49:36 <Chris82> When I see the source I wouldn't be able to tell it as well :p 09:49:43 <Biff> Chris82: more then 1 person makes a operating system 09:49:49 <peter1138> worst argument ever against opensource 09:49:59 <Gekkko> peter1138: agreed. 09:50:08 <Gekkko> I believe in kick ban :) 09:50:11 <Chris82> But speaking of source code, I gotta hurry to uni for my Java exercice :p 09:50:21 <Biff> Gekkko: i belive in free speech 09:50:31 <Chris82> Thanks :) 09:50:33 <TrueBrain> @kick Gekkko I too believe in kicks 09:50:34 *** Gekkko was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [I too believe in kicks] 09:50:34 *** Gekkko [~Brendan@CPE-58-168-99-207.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 09:50:38 <Gekkko> lol 09:50:39 <TrueBrain> morning all 09:50:44 <Chris82> I have nothing against people who like open source 09:50:49 <Chris82> and I have nothing against Linux 09:50:49 <Noldo> gekko belives in autorejoin 09:50:52 <Gekkko> yep 09:50:55 <Chris82> it's just nothing that I want to use 09:51:00 <TrueBrain> next time it is a ban for 2 minutes :p Mwhahahaha! 09:51:04 <Gekkko> enjoy Vista Chris82 09:51:06 <Gekkko> lolol 09:51:09 <Chris82> I do :) 09:51:12 <Gekkko> <3 DRM 09:51:17 <TrueBrain> Chris82: I have nothing against people who use Windows, I ust wish them good luck keeping it clean ;) 09:51:20 <Biff> Chris82: so you propose that Windows is more secure then a Linux-based operating system? 09:51:42 <Sionide> Chris82, you're *not* going to win this... 09:51:49 <Noldo> Biff: now you are toning he down 09:51:53 <Noldo> *him 09:52:00 <Chris82> Depends on the user. If you're a computer noob a default Win Vista install is at least at a comparable level like Debian for example. 09:52:17 <Chris82> And 99% of all computer users are noobs in my opinion. 09:52:20 <Rubidium> Chris82: so you prefer an OS that no outsider can reviewed properly over an OS that can be reviewed properly by outsiders. 09:52:53 <Chris82> I personally do yes, because I don't believe in all these calling home and NSA registry key theories =D 09:53:13 <Biff> you dont belive in them, but noone can check it out 09:53:13 <TrueBrain> Chris82: but you do suspect Open Source OSes doing that? 09:53:35 <Chris82> I mean the Vista Firewall even blocks the Windows Activation in contrary to the XP Firewall, isn't that a nice improvement :D:D haha 09:53:38 <Gekkko> I laugh at your communist theory. 09:53:57 <Sionide> Chris82, you've got quite a misguided view of open source 09:53:58 <Rubidium> nah, he believes that it is easier to exploit open source OSes than closed source OSes 09:54:18 <Gekkko> I believe no matter what OS you're on, you're gonna get DoS'ed. 09:54:18 <Chris82> That's more my point yes. 09:54:36 <Gekkko> just depends on how your system copes 09:54:38 <Sionide> Chris82, you're misguided, your view is based on nothing except your own assumptions and preconceptions.. 09:54:43 <Chris82> No OS calls home or anywhere unless you got hacked or didn't de-activate all this user experience crap which is not only in Windows. 09:54:52 <Sionide> Gekkko, maybe not if you use Tor? :P 09:55:01 <Chris82> It's based on my experience with a Linux Server for 7 years. 09:55:13 <Gekkko> Sionide: lol go Tor 09:55:17 <Gekkko> but I run a web server 09:55:19 *** Zavior [~Zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 09:55:21 <Gekkko> so no Tor for me 09:55:25 <Chris82> Since I am no computer expert I got hacked 2 times! This didn't happen with my Win 2k3 Server yet which I have for about the same time. 09:55:27 <TrueBrain> You can have a webserver and run Tor 09:55:29 <Gekkko> noone try my IP, it's all closed right now 09:55:29 *** Nickman^Away is now known as Nickman 09:55:32 <Chris82> Although Windows is much less secure of course. 09:55:35 <Gekkko> TrueBrain: didn't knwo that 09:55:49 <Gekkko> Chris82: tell me again why you are doing BSc? 09:55:57 <TrueBrain> Chris82: haha, that is a bad example to say OpenSource is worse over some Closed Source ;) 09:56:09 <Chris82> Why is it bad? 09:56:09 <TrueBrain> that you just protected your installion poorly ;) 09:56:17 <Rubidium> Chris82: and what was the reason you've got hacked? 09:56:20 <Sionide> Chris82, a friend of mine used to have the same view as you, that it must be easier to hack into open source because you can see the source code, it took me about 10 minutes to convince him otherwise but i'm not wasting my time doing the same for you 09:56:21 <Chris82> Servers are something where Linux and Windows actually share a bigger market 09:56:36 <Gekkko> Sionide: I thought it would be easier to hack too 09:56:39 <Gekkko> but then I thought about it 09:56:45 <Sionide> Gekkko, and saw the light 09:56:46 <Gekkko> my own brain phases an argument 09:56:53 <Gekkko> I <3 my brain 09:56:54 <Sionide> Gekkko, the light of the bulb above your head going on, that is 09:56:56 <Gekkko> it tells me things. 09:56:56 <Gekkko> lol 09:57:02 <TrueBrain> Example: I manage around N windows servers, and 4 * N ^ 2 Linux servers... the Windows servers need to reboot about every month, and are magicly rebooted once in the 3months... the linux servers run for over a year (then I do a kernel update) 09:57:02 <Chris82> Anyway gotta hurry to uni lecture starts in 15 mins :p 09:57:07 <Gekkko> I haven't used Windows at all for 3 weeks 09:57:07 <Chris82> we can continue this later ;) 09:57:09 <TrueBrain> no, we want you to get late :p 09:57:12 <TrueBrain> don't you see? 09:57:20 <Gekkko> I had to use it for gaming :P 09:57:23 <Sionide> Gekkko, 2 years, heh 09:57:25 <Gekkko> Wine was insufficient 09:57:26 <Chris82> haha then you don't know how fast I'm with my bike :p 09:57:35 <Chris82> c ya l8er 09:57:35 <TrueBrain> I want to see ;) 09:57:50 <Sionide> Chris82, with IMglish like that - you'll never win an argument in your life! 09:58:05 <Gekkko> TrueBrain: I love compiling a kernel 09:58:10 <Gekkko> I find it exciting. 09:58:14 <TrueBrain> @kick Sionide blablabla, now that is a nasty thing to say 09:58:14 *** Sionide was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [blablabla, now that is a nasty thing to say] 09:58:16 <Gekkko> but I'm a weirdo. 09:58:25 *** Sionide [sionide@cornflakes.imen.org.uk] has joined #openttd 09:58:27 <Sionide> aw 09:58:34 <TrueBrain> Gekkko: it is nice to compile kernels in general :) Just not nice to reboot all the time on production servers ;) 09:58:38 * Sionide keeps quiet 09:58:39 <TrueBrain> clients do not like that ;) 09:58:47 <Noldo> Gekkko: I find it exiting too, I never know when my computer reboots from overheating 09:58:47 <Gekkko> that's true 09:59:03 <Gekkko> I'm about to setup a shell company 09:59:05 <Gekkko> a small one 09:59:08 <Gekkko> Cookie Shell 09:59:10 <Gekkko> xD 09:59:20 <Gekkko> bought teh domain and all. 09:59:22 <TheJosh> csh 09:59:27 <TheJosh> cksh 09:59:27 <Gekkko> lol 09:59:35 <eekee> \o ^^ 09:59:36 <TheJosh> i prefer bash 09:59:45 <Gekkko> the best part is: AMD Duron 800mhz with 386mb ram 09:59:47 <Gekkko> lolol 09:59:59 <eekee> hehe 10:00:09 <TheJosh> i had a computer once with 4mb or ram and a 25mhz processor 10:00:15 <TheJosh> redhat 5, irc server 10:00:29 <TheJosh> also ran samba and apache 10:00:30 <eekee> A whole 25MHz? 10:00:41 <TheJosh> dns name: 'snail' 10:00:46 <TrueBrain> if it is an arm CPU 10:00:47 <eekee> hehe 10:00:49 <TrueBrain> you get a long way 10:00:54 <TheJosh> 386 10:01:01 <TheJosh> or a 286 cant remember 10:01:03 <TrueBrain> (only stating a MHz doesn't get you anywhere) 10:01:16 <eekee> You won't run Linux on a 286 10:01:23 <TheJosh> this was linux 2.0 10:01:34 <TheJosh> if that needed a 386 then it was a 386 10:02:01 <TheJosh> brb: chickent 10:02:03 <TheJosh> chickents 10:02:09 <TheJosh> chickens...got it! 10:02:11 <eekee> Yeah my first Linux was kernel 2.0.14 on an 8MB 486... 12MHz iirc, although I soom upgraded to 33MHz with VLB 10:02:39 <Gekkko> so 10:02:45 <Gekkko> do you think people will pay to use that system? 10:02:56 <Gekkko> I don't limit what apps can be used 10:03:00 <Gekkko> except nothing illegal 10:03:04 <Gekkko> eggdrop, etc can be used 10:03:14 <eekee> ooh, little bit maybe, ya 10:03:17 <peter1138> did 486s ever come at 12MHz? 10:03:18 <Gekkko> remote X for an extra a month 10:03:19 <Gekkko> :P 10:03:23 <eekee> hehe 10:04:28 <eekee> peter1138: yep. In fact, this had a 15-MHz chip soldered in underneath the PSU, and someone had "upgraded" it with a plug-in 12MHz 10:05:11 <hylje> heh, upgrades 10:05:15 <eekee> hehe 10:07:31 <eekee> I put X on it & stuff segfaulted constantly until I added another 4MB of ram much later, against dire warning to never have more ram than half your swap. It ran fine 10:07:35 <TheJosh> back 10:07:46 <eekee> wb 10:07:53 <TheJosh> 3 doz eggs 10:08:01 <Gekkko> hmm 10:08:07 <TheJosh> average production for a day 10:08:13 <Gekkko> time to attempt ripping cds in Linux 10:08:16 <eekee> ah ^^ 10:08:24 <Gekkko> then I sadly have to reboot into Linux for iTunes. 10:08:25 <hylje> no need to attempt 10:08:29 <Gekkko> oh wait, I've got gtkpod. 10:08:30 <Gekkko> huzzah 10:08:50 <TheJosh> reboot? what does that mean again? i forget 10:08:51 <hylje> dd if=/media/cdrom of=/home/gekko/ripped-cd 10:09:00 *** Sug [~graeme@88-104-118-19.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 10:09:12 <TheJosh> there are even tools for ripping audio to ogg 10:09:49 <hylje> for the record, articulated tram 10:09:58 <eekee> yay? 10:10:04 <Gekkko> im using grip 10:10:07 <Gekkko> im ripping with lame 10:10:10 <Gekkko> it's for an iPod 10:10:13 <Gekkko> iPods are lame. 10:10:19 <TheJosh> ha ha 10:10:20 <eekee> :) 10:10:21 <Gekkko> I use a Palm PDA for my music 10:10:31 <Gekkko> everything on my PDA is Open Source 10:10:31 <hylje> pda? music? 10:10:32 <hylje> eww 10:10:33 <Gekkko> or freeware 10:10:36 <Gekkko> or pirated. 10:10:37 <Gekkko> lol 10:10:38 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:10:38 <eekee> I wish my Zaurus hadn't broken 10:10:42 <Gekkko> eww? 10:10:45 <Gekkko> Palm TX is sexy 10:10:48 <Gekkko> 2gb SD card 10:10:48 <TheJosh> i have a computer for my music 10:10:49 <hylje> i has n9300 10:10:50 <Gekkko> you cant go wrong 10:10:54 <TheJosh> and an equaliser and 3 amps 10:11:04 <TheJosh> serious home-made soundsystem, 10:11:04 <Brianetta> openttd: command.c:529: DoCommandP: Assertion `res == res2' failed. 10:11:04 <Brianetta> Server has exited 10:11:04 <Brianetta> Boo. 10:11:16 <eekee> TheJosh: nice ^_^ 10:11:21 <TheJosh> i think res equals res2. 10:11:22 <hylje> boo indeed 10:11:34 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A792D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:11:46 <TheJosh> eekee: thanks 10:11:49 <dihedral> Brianetta: that looks nice 10:11:57 *** geoff_k [~geoff_k@host81-152-90-185.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 10:12:18 <TheJosh> one of my speakers died recently though. one of my real good loud bassy ones. works but is crap quality. may need a new driver :( 10:12:26 <TheJosh> there goes 0 to 0 bucks 10:12:27 <eekee> ahh :/ 10:12:29 <eekee> ya 10:12:37 <dihedral> ouch 10:12:44 <hylje> enjoy your sound systems 10:12:55 <TheJosh> ill open it up and check its not just a loose conection or a dead crossover 10:13:12 <TheJosh> when it was working it was awsome though. i tested it recently, 103 db 10:13:13 <eekee> My comp's linked up to an old Toshiba amp that probably dates from the mid-80s. That feeds into speakers which aren't bad, but both the amp & the speakers have a warm somewhat muddy tone so together they aren't very good 10:13:19 <TheJosh> concert volume in a room 10:13:44 <TheJosh> eekee: cool 10:13:57 <hylje> amps dont really obsolete 10:14:04 <hylje> like computers do 10:14:07 <TheJosh> im down to 2 tweeters at the moment till i work out this big speaker 10:14:13 <eekee> ^^ The alternative is my headphones, I got a pair of Sennheiser HD 590s I really like ^^ They have a sharp tone which balances the amp reasonably well 10:14:15 <eekee> eep 10:14:24 * geoff_k uses old realistic reciever amp 10:14:26 <TheJosh> hope it works again, its a real nice one 10:14:43 <eekee> hylje: yeah... the big capacitors in them just blow up eventually ^^; 10:14:43 <TheJosh> 12 inch bass driver with a magnet about 15x15x15 cm 10:14:53 <eekee> :O :D 10:15:12 <hylje> cube magnet+ 10:15:14 <geoff_k> with 2 b&w studio monitors which dont actualy belong on it and htey sound too hard with the bass 10:15:36 <eekee> aw mew 10:15:37 <geoff_k> they belog on my nad amp realy but i no used it for some time in the livingroom which also has been used for a while 10:15:47 <TheJosh> hylje: its mega. the amp on number 3 out of 10 things start shaking 10:15:54 <Gekkko> can anyone upload their df to somewhere for me 10:15:59 <Gekkko> I'm too lazy to compile one myself right now 10:16:05 <Gekkko> and busybox is angrying me 10:16:12 <TheJosh> i used to have them under the couch and play halo and the couch would vibrate 10:16:29 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-89-217-30-51.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:16:32 <eekee> :D 10:16:58 <eekee> Oh I HATE busybox lol 10:17:11 <Gekkko> it is crappy as. 10:17:24 <Gekkko> what is df part of? 10:17:25 *** SmatZ [~root@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd 10:17:27 <Gekkko> what gnu package 10:18:05 <Zr40> coreutils 10:18:22 <Gekkko> no it's not 10:18:26 <eekee> I got my Z & I was all like, "Flipping heck, I had bash 2.0 & a FULL set of tools on an 8MB, 12MHz 486 and they worked FINE, & this thing has 16MB & a 166MHz ARM, and I'm stuck with this busybox crap??? 10:18:35 <Zr40> output of df --help: 10:18:40 <Zr40> Report bugs to <bug-coreutils@gnu.org>. 10:18:51 <Gekkko> but I compiled coreutils 10:18:52 <Gekkko> it wasnt in it 10:18:53 <Zr40> so yes, it is 10:19:03 <Zr40> which version? 10:19:08 *** Smoky555 [~Miranda@80.69.148.14] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:19:10 <Gekkko> 6.9 10:19:22 <Zr40> I have 6.7 10:19:44 <peter1138> eekee: linux is certainly bloated these days :( 10:19:58 <Zr40> Gekkko: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coreutils 10:20:01 <Zr40> list contains df :) 10:20:09 <TheJosh> you can always use LFS and then you can choose how bloated you want to make it 10:20:11 <eekee> peter1138: I know. They put Gtk+ 2.0 in PDAs & apps take forever to start. It's horrible! 10:20:18 <geoff_k> its bloated if you use ubuntu, i use slackware its not at all bloated runs well 10:20:35 <eekee> TheJosh: I was gonna LFS my PDA. Never got round to it :J 10:20:38 <eekee> $ gaze from `which df` 10:20:38 <eekee> coreutils-5.94:/bin/df 10:20:38 <eekee> coreutils-6.4:/bin/df 10:20:40 <Gekkko> Zr40: I know 10:20:51 <Gekkko> eekee: wht kiind of PDA 10:20:56 <TheJosh> i started LFS but i got bored 10:21:13 <TheJosh> and frustrated 10:21:27 <eekee> Gekko Zaurus SL-5500, the bottom-line Zaurus, near-enough 10:21:28 * SmatZ <-- Gentoo 10:21:42 *** Smoky555 [~Miranda@80.69.148.14] has joined #openttd 10:21:44 <TheJosh> i put gentoo on a machine i made for my sisters 10:21:51 <TheJosh> they wanted windows but i have no money 10:22:03 <SmatZ> I tried LFS, but Gentoo sems easier to handle 10:22:27 <TheJosh> Gentoo is good 10:22:36 <TheJosh> plenty of control, but a heap easier than LFS 10:22:40 <eekee> I LFS's from the old mini-howto, & from the sources on aSUSE dvd-rom because I didn't have internet, but eventually I got very frustrated. Used Gentoo for a bit & then went to Source Mage 10:23:22 <Gekkko> Zr40: it wouldnt copy because "Text file busy" 10:23:27 <Gekkko> so I rmed half of /bin 10:23:30 <Gekkko> that fixed that 10:23:45 <eekee> haha! 10:23:46 <Zr40> Gekkko: "Text file busy"? I've never heard of that error. 10:24:03 <Zr40> but even so, Linux allows deletion of in-use files 10:24:11 <Gekkko> I love that 10:24:12 <SmatZ> :-D 10:24:18 <Gekkko> also it hotswaps files 10:24:31 <Gekkko> I changed irssi and it didnt log me out 10:24:33 <Gekkko> I was like WTF?! 10:24:37 <eekee> I think I might have had that error once. Prolly deleting something in-use on a vfat fs 10:24:48 <eekee> hehe 10:24:56 <Zr40> Gekkko: that's what I said :) 10:25:17 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A792D.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 10:25:29 <Zr40> but the running irssi isn't magically updated without restarting it 10:25:45 <eekee> I do remember once beign unable to delete an in-use binary on an ext2 fs. That was wierd 10:26:16 <Zr40> eekee: perhaps it was locked in a weird way. 10:26:22 <eekee> ya guess so 10:26:24 <Zr40> eekee: next time that happens, try lsof | grep filename 10:26:31 <Zr40> replace filename, of course 10:26:46 <Caemyr> eekee: the slowest 486 was 33mhz 10:26:49 <Caemyr> 486sx 10:26:50 <eekee> never had much luck with lsof, but ty 10:27:00 <Caemyr> no math coprocessor 10:27:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10233 /trunk/src/blitter/8bpp_optimized.cpp: -Fix: 8bpp-optimized encoder fucked up if 255+ pixels in a row were non-transparent (tnx boekabart) 10:27:23 <eekee> Caemyr: Maybe that was the first one they brought out, but you're neglecting budget ones 10:27:36 <Caemyr> and linux cant run 286 as this cpu is unable to run in protected mode 10:27:40 <Caemyr> eekee: nope 10:28:18 <TheJosh> there must be a way...a lot of source hacking 10:28:19 <Caemyr> 286 was 8-16 mhz 10:28:19 <SmatZ> Caemyr: I have 486SX @ 25MHz 10:28:25 <Caemyr> downgraded 10:28:29 <TheJosh> the programmign ethos: "Hack it till it works" 10:28:32 <eekee> Caemyr: oh.. fook, I not only had 12 & 15 (or was it 16) MHz 486s, but I had and knew of many 25MHz ones. Check your facts :) 10:28:36 <Caemyr> ? 10:28:40 <TheJosh> while (broken) { hackIt(); } 10:28:54 <eekee> TheJosh: :D 10:28:55 <Zr40> s/broken/true/ 10:29:00 <SmatZ> :) 10:29:00 <eekee> heheee 10:29:20 <Caemyr> look, 386 were 16-40mhz 10:29:26 <eekee> and? 10:29:27 <Gekkko> GAH wtf 10:29:36 <Gekkko> it mounted my ipod with trunticated filenames 10:29:41 <Gekkko> lolol~1 crap 10:29:43 <Gekkko> how do i fix thi 10:29:43 <eekee> bah 10:29:44 <Gekkko> s 10:29:47 <Caemyr> and 486 was the next gen 10:29:51 <eekee> and???? 10:29:56 <Zr40> Gekkko: fat filesystem? 10:30:00 <Gekkko> fat32 10:30:05 <Gekkko> should i precify that fact 10:30:05 <TheJosh> tell it vfat 10:30:08 <Gekkko> k 10:30:10 <TheJosh> not msdos 10:30:13 <Gekkko> now it font let me unmount 10:30:17 <Gekkko> damn crappy crap apple 10:30:19 <TheJosh> umount <dev> 10:30:21 <Zr40> Gekkko: are you sure you mounted it as vfat as TheJosh says? only vfat supports long file names 10:30:23 <TheJosh> mount <dev> -t vfat 10:30:25 <eekee> Caemyr: stop working things out & check your facts. There is no logical accounting for marketting decisions, so that's the only way! 10:30:31 <Zr40> Gekkko: blame microsoft, not apple 10:30:31 <Gekkko> Zr40: i just said mount 10:30:37 <Caemyr> 25 mhz yeah 10:30:38 <Gekkko> Zr40: iPod = Apple 10:30:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10234 /trunk/src/blitter/8bpp_optimized.cpp: -Fix r10233: make peter1138 happy 10:30:40 <Caemyr> possible 10:30:40 <Zr40> Gekkko: linux picks the first working filesystem 10:30:43 <Gekkko> vfat = MS 10:30:46 <Caemyr> but 16? 10:30:52 <Noldo> :D nice commit message 10:31:00 <TheJosh> vfat is fat16/32 + long filenames 10:31:02 <Caemyr> a 486 mobo wouldn`t work on such fsb 10:31:08 <TheJosh> msdos is the same but not longfilenames 10:31:09 <Zr40> Gekkko: if you use the iPod on Windows, it's formatted as fat32 10:31:11 <Gekkko> GAH 10:31:15 <Gekkko> it wont let me umount 10:31:20 <Gekkko> even when i unplugged the ipod 10:31:23 <Gekkko> "device busy" 10:31:24 <Gekkko> -f 10:31:24 <TheJosh> format it ext3 10:31:26 <SmatZ> http://www.cpu-world.com/info/id/Intel-80486-identification.html 10:31:30 <TheJosh> close itunes 10:31:30 <Gekkko> umount: forced umount of /dev/sdg2 failed! 10:31:31 <Zr40> if you use it on Macs, it's formatted as hfs+ 10:31:32 <Caemyr> well nvm 10:31:40 <Zr40> TheJosh: the ipod doesn't support that :) 10:31:48 <TheJosh> hack it till it works 10:31:52 <Gekkko> Zr40: yes it does 10:31:56 <Gekkko> iPodLinux 10:31:57 <eekee> *shrug* No acounting for marketting folk :) Do remember though, that a 15 or 16MHz 486 would be about as fast, internally, as a 33MHz 386. I dont' think the average user cared that the bus would b slower, lol 10:32:00 <Zr40> so it becomes an expensive storage medium 10:32:06 <Caemyr> i surrender 10:32:12 <eekee> :) 10:32:15 <Gekkko> ill return 10:32:17 <Gekkko> reboot 10:32:19 <Gekkko> because it wont umount 10:32:22 <Zr40> Gekkko: what does dmesg say? 10:32:23 <Gekkko> unless someone has an idea 10:32:25 <Gekkko> how to really force it 10:32:40 <TheJosh> unplug it 10:32:45 <Gekkko> nothing of interest 10:32:47 <Gekkko> TheJosh: I did 10:32:49 <Gekkko> still wont umount 10:32:57 <eekee> umount -f 10:33:00 <Gekkko> i did 10:33:00 <TheJosh> you cant unmount a removed volume 10:33:01 <Zr40> umount -f *before* unplugging :) 10:33:04 <Gekkko> I DID 10:33:07 <Gekkko> i did it all 10:33:08 <Gekkko> lol 10:33:10 <TheJosh> did you mount as root? 10:33:13 <Gekkko> ye 10:33:16 <Gekkko> umount as root? 10:33:16 <Gekkko> ye 10:33:22 <TheJosh> restart 10:33:24 <Gekkko> gah 10:33:26 <SmatZ> eekee: some of those UMC 80486 10:33:29 <Gekkko> that should never be an option 10:33:31 <TheJosh> i know its non-linux but it works 10:33:34 <eekee> I really hate when stuff won't umount 10:33:45 <TheJosh> modifiy mtab 10:33:50 <Gekkko> how so 10:33:51 <eekee> yeah, only thing you have to restart for, lol 10:33:53 <TheJosh> remove the line then its not mounted 10:33:56 <Zr40> TheJosh: that doesn't solve it 10:33:59 <TheJosh> ung 10:34:02 <TheJosh> HACK 10:34:05 <Zr40> TheJosh: especially on current kernels 10:34:10 <Gekkko> lol TheJosh I did 10:34:12 <Gekkko> lets try now 10:34:16 <Zr40> as the kernel keeps an internal state of mount points 10:34:17 <eekee> SmatZ: yeah, I think these chips were UMC... 10:34:24 <Gekkko> ROFL 10:34:29 <Gekkko> plugging the ipod into this pc reset it 10:34:32 <Zr40> mtab is for backward compatibility 10:34:33 <eekee> haha 10:34:46 <Gekkko> Zr40: this is one backward linux 10:34:49 <eekee> mtab has some info that /proc/mounts doesn't 10:35:01 <Zr40> Gekkko: I mean, for really old linuxes 10:35:19 <Gekkko> I know. 10:35:23 <Gekkko> it worked though 10:35:24 <Gekkko> yay 10:35:25 <Zr40> eekee: such as? 10:35:33 <Gekkko> GAHGAHGAH 10:35:39 <Gekkko> now gtkpod segfaults 10:35:41 <Gekkko> I hate life. 10:35:53 <TheJosh> restart dammit 10:36:00 <Gekkko> I hate this 10:36:01 <Gekkko> lol 10:36:03 <Gekkko> brb 10:36:04 *** Gekkko [~Brendan@CPE-58-168-99-207.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/] 10:36:07 <TheJosh> or go to runlevel 1 then go back again 10:36:33 <Zr40> that doesn't solve problems in the kernel 10:36:33 <Chris82> back =D 10:36:39 <eekee> Zr40: errrrr.. less than it used to :D but try this: cat /proc/mounts ; echo ; cat /etc/mtab 10:36:43 <Chris82> I see your open source software works well today *g* 10:37:21 <Chris82> I said I am quick on the bike :p 10:37:24 <eekee> Zr40: also remember that /etc/mtab is POSIX, /proc/mounts isn't. The Un*x world is not confined to Linux 10:37:33 <Zr40> eekee: what I said, compatibility 10:37:38 <eekee> yeah 10:37:47 <Caemyr> lawl 10:37:47 <Zr40> eekee: the only difference I see is on the usbfs line in mtab 10:37:50 <Chris82> This whole discussion is actually the bigger reason for me not to use Linux 10:37:56 <Zr40> and usbfs is a linux thing :) 10:38:06 <Chris82> if you already have problems with this what do you think would all the average users do? 10:38:15 <Caemyr> Chris82: you spawned this discussion:P 10:38:22 <Chris82> actually no 10:38:26 <Chris82> well maybe a little 10:38:30 <Sionide> Chris82, i don't have problems with mine.. mainly because i don't tinker with it an awful lot, so it doesn't break.. windows breaks if you tinker with it. 10:38:34 <Caemyr> Windows users also seek help 10:38:42 <Chris82> all I said was saying that I am Windows fanatic but compile OTTD myself instead of downloading bins :D 10:38:47 <Caemyr> but they rarely can describe their problem properly 10:38:55 <Caemyr> yeah 10:38:57 <eekee> Chris82: eh, we didn't used to have problems before the Cult of the New got involved, and personally I blame megacorps like Microsoft fot the cult of the new 10:39:05 *** |Gekkko| [~Brendan@CPE-58-168-99-207.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:39:10 <Caemyr> then said that you wouldn`t use open source OS 10:39:13 *** |Gekkko| is now known as Gekkko 10:39:17 <Gekkko> hey hey 10:39:19 <Caemyr> or any vital oss app 10:39:21 <Caemyr> :) 10:39:24 * Rubidium has much more problems and issues getting Windows to compile OpenTTD properly than Linux 10:39:38 <Chris82> yeah I know but what's wrong with it, some people don't use open source os'es, other's do :D 10:39:38 <eekee> I get a bit nervous when people say "compatibility for older linuxes" as if a feature which has worked well since the beginning of UN*X is going away D: 10:39:48 <Chris82> luckily we live in a free world where neither Windows nore Linux is forced on us 10:39:51 <eekee> :D 10:39:59 <Caemyr> lawl 10:40:02 <Sionide> Chris82, that's a joke... surely? 10:40:13 <Gekkko> omg it's Chris82 again 10:40:17 <Rubidium> so, if "amount of problems someone has with an OS" is a manner to determine whether noobs have issues with it, then noobs have more issues with windows than with linux 10:40:17 <Chris82> haha :D 10:40:25 <Chris82> yeah my lecture didn't take as long as I thought 10:40:28 <Caemyr> unless you buy a pc and they force you to have windows with it 10:40:30 <Gekkko> 5 minutes? 10:40:36 <Gekkko> you need to spend time studying 10:40:37 <Gekkko> >_> 10:40:41 <Caemyr> for which you pay no matter you want it or not;P 10:40:48 <Gekkko> Chris82: you're German 10:40:53 <Chris82> yes almost 10:40:53 <eekee> I know a guy who quit his job because after acheiving impressive levels of efficiency with Linux, his boss suddenly forced Windows onto him 10:41:03 <Caemyr> if not directly, then it`s included in the rig`s price 10:41:27 <eekee> Caemyr: there's instructions for gettign the money back on your Windows licence, somewhere ont he web :) 10:41:31 <Chris82> yeah a Dell with Windows the Win licence costs like 20 or 30 USD 10:41:36 <Caemyr> lawl 10:41:38 <Chris82> that's really not much 10:41:42 <Caemyr> eekee: look at Vista 10:41:46 <Sionide> Chris82, free software isn't just about the price 10:41:53 <eekee> Caemyr: please don't make me ;.; 10:42:01 <Caemyr> changing the component required you to purchase license again:P 10:42:03 <Chris82> and as I said I also have nothing against open source in general 10:42:05 <Gekkko> eekee: there is?! 10:42:10 <Caemyr> yes 10:42:10 <Gekkko> I want a refund. 10:42:13 <Chris82> little nifty tools, games like OpenTTD they are awesome 10:42:15 <Caemyr> you have:) 10:42:15 <Gekkko> and I'll still use a pirated product. 10:42:16 <Gekkko> lol 10:42:26 <Caemyr> you state that opensource applications are easier to hack:) 10:42:31 <Chris82> but an os, or an anti virus tool I want that closed source 10:42:31 <eekee> Caemyr: I knooooow ;,,,,,; ;,,,,,,; I want to forget such evils exist in the world, pleeeeease!!!!! 10:42:33 <Caemyr> which is 'complete bs' 10:42:38 <Caemyr> NO! 10:42:44 <Gekkko> Don't go there girlfriend 10:42:45 <Sionide> Chris82, i'll say it again heh, your view is misguided 10:42:46 <Caemyr> YOU MUST NOT 10:42:48 * Gekkko clicks fingers 3 times. 10:42:51 <Caemyr> lawl 10:42:56 <Chris82> misguided by who? 10:42:59 <eekee> Chris82: then you're either an idiot or you've never heard of a decompiler 10:43:06 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-89-217-30-51.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 10:43:07 <Caemyr> i can see loads of pages 10:43:09 <Sionide> Chris82, by your own assumptions and preconceptions 10:43:11 <Caemyr> with WIN exploits 10:43:17 <Chris82> I just speak from what I experienced with a Linux server for 7 years and then what I experienced with a Windows server for 6 years 10:43:18 <Caemyr> why there arent such for linux? 10:43:23 <Gekkko> gah gtkpod died. 10:43:28 <Gekkko> f**k you gtkpod 10:43:36 <Chris82> if there wouldn't be Linux exploits, there would be no hacked servers 10:43:49 <Gekkko> roflsauce. 10:43:50 <Caemyr> you argue in cycles 10:43:57 <Sionide> Chris82, you're not differentiating between "Linux" and "any other free software applications you might run" 10:44:01 <Chris82> many are from PHP and such things, but still there are Linux stand alone servers hacked as well 10:44:04 <Rubidium> Chris82: so, you got hacked twice with the Linux server? How were you hacked remains a valid question on whether the OS is to blame or the user or another application 10:44:08 <Gekkko> if there wouldn't be Windows exploits, microsoft.com wouldn't get DoS'd so much 10:44:20 <Sionide> Chris82, there are still windows stand alone server hacked as well... 10:44:33 <Chris82> the root account was hacked because a logging process was faulty 10:44:36 <Gekkko> Port sniffing doesnt discriminate OS 10:44:39 <Chris82> I don't know the exact happenings 10:44:40 <Caemyr> no matter if Linux or Windows 10:44:51 <Chris82> if I would have known about the "hole" I would have closed it 10:44:57 <Sionide> Chris82, so you didn't install security upgrades? 10:45:02 <Caemyr> around 90% of hacking is successfull due to user being a noob 10:45:04 <geoff_k> its not aways the OS's fault soemone hacks it, its offen down to poor admin skills by the user for which im no expert for sure 10:45:08 <Chris82> I had an auto update function running 10:45:17 <Chris82> I have no time remoting all day long just to see if there are any security updates 10:45:19 <Caemyr> and leaving a gate wide open to their system 10:45:44 <Chris82> yes I agree with that, most hacked servers are due to bad admin skills 10:45:49 <Chris82> and not necessarily the OSes fault 10:45:51 <Caemyr> like running Admin/root 10:45:55 <geoff_k> indeed 10:45:56 <Gekkko> whats a good way to use an ipod on linux? 10:45:58 <Chris82> but in my opinion Windows is much easier to use than Linux 10:45:58 <Rubidium> Chris82: what kind of logging process? 10:46:06 <Chris82> and therefor less experienced users can achieve better results 10:46:07 <Caemyr> Chris82: it is 10:46:08 <Maedhros> Gekkko: gtkpod? 10:46:14 <Chris82> if you're an expert Linux will work great for you 10:46:15 <Gekkko> it keeps segfaulting 10:46:20 <Caemyr> but it is not due to Windows being closed source 10:46:21 <Sionide> Gekkko, gtkpod has worked for me in the past, other than that it just connects as an external usb disk.. 10:46:22 <eekee> I dunno about servers. I just seeeeriously expect my OS to come with some form of MINIMAL guards that make viruses VERY DIFFICULT to write come BUILT IN and NOT inconvenience me significantly. Linux inherited that from Un*x, who inherited that from other multi-user OSs, who had that kind fo protection IN THE 60s!!!!! 10:46:23 <Chris82> but the vast majority of computer users are no experts 10:46:26 <Caemyr> and Linux being opensource 10:46:43 <Sionide> Chris82, have you tried ubuntu on a desktop machine? 10:46:46 <Caemyr> Chris82: there will be an opensource Windows, do not fear 10:46:50 <Sionide> Chris82, you don't need to be an expert to run ubuntu 10:46:58 <Chris82> and my first days with Linux were awful.... please check this dependency there, this conflict there 10:47:14 <Chris82> whenever I installed one single application I had to solve 10 conflicts and check 50 dependencies 10:47:16 <Caemyr> yeah its hard 10:47:27 <Chris82> I know that's not as bad anymore, but it just makes the system complicated and time consuming 10:47:29 <Caemyr> but look at the average windows user 10:47:30 <Sionide> Chris82, it takes me 2 or 3 clicks maximum to install an application -_- 10:47:33 <Caemyr> looking for help 10:47:43 <Gekkko> Chris82: FreeBSD? 10:47:44 <Caemyr> "My system doesnt boot. What do i do?" 10:47:46 <Chris82> I mean I don't care if my text writing app starts 0,1 sec slower on Windows when I save a few hours maintaining my system 10:47:48 <Rubidium> Chris82: that's just a stupid application installer; a proper one would solve almost all of those issues for you 10:47:50 <Gekkko> and open source windows is called ReactOS 10:47:50 <geoff_k> there are many distros you can run without dependancy issues, i have had no dependancy problems for a long time 10:47:54 <Chris82> FreeBSD? no I was using Red Hat 10:47:57 <Gekkko> no 10:47:59 <Gekkko> I was saying 10:48:03 <Gekkko> it never required challenge 10:48:03 <Sionide> :\ 10:48:05 <Gekkko> you said ports this 10:48:08 <Gekkko> lol 10:48:28 <Chris82> and another problem I had in connection with the server I am running 10:48:47 <eekee> Windows? Help? I think every Windows computer shop out there uses a different technical vocabulary, and little of it makes sense to someone who grew up knowing the its-and-bytes internals of computers 10:48:47 <Gekkko> sounds like you live for proprietary applicaiton 10:48:49 <Chris82> whenever I tried to upgrade PHP or something like this it caused massive headaches and I ended up with a broken system many times after such an upgrade 10:48:53 <Gekkko> enjoy wasting your cpu cycles 10:48:54 <Caemyr> WinNT has some good sides 10:48:57 <Gekkko> this argument is redundant. 10:48:58 <Rubidium> Chris82: under windows I would be needing a lot of time to check and update each and every application I've got installed. Under Debian you just do apt-get update && apt-get upgrade and it's done for you. 10:48:58 <Chris82> when I want to upgrade PHP on my Windows Server I never had any problems 10:48:58 <Gekkko> good night. 10:49:03 <geoff_k> best way to avoid dependancy issues, is get a distro best fits your purpose i rely on 3 main distros to do things 10:49:05 <Caemyr> best driver base ever existed 10:49:08 <eekee> night 10:49:13 <Gekkko> I'm not leavin 10:49:14 <Gekkko> >_> 10:49:18 <Biff> Chris82: apt-get dist-upgrade, and php is upgraded 10:49:20 <eekee> oh lol 10:49:36 <Chris82> yeah it works well in new Debian distros, I already said it's not as bad anymore 10:49:49 <Chris82> that was a few years ago when I was using Red Hat and got crappy experiences with it 10:49:54 <Rubidium> Chris82: define "new" please 10:50:02 <Chris82> I just wanted to tell you where my "bad opinion" is coming from 10:50:08 <eekee> fair enough 10:50:10 <Gekkko> I love slapt-get 10:50:11 <Sionide> Chris82, if you think it's that easy that hackers can look at the source code for my OS and hack into it, why hasn't somebody done it already? i've been running Ubuntu linux for 2 years ish, why hasn't somebody looked at the code and hacked into me yet? 10:50:13 <Gekkko> it works with any OS 10:50:15 <Chris82> new as in downloaded this year :D 10:50:15 <Gekkko> i swear to go 10:50:16 <Gekkko> d 10:50:21 <geoff_k> i never upgrade either i rebuild services, but then my servers are on virtual machines 10:50:36 <Gekkko> Sionide: because when someone abuses the source, someone patches it within minutes 10:50:42 <Gekkko> thank God for Aspergers Syndrome 10:50:48 <Chris82> Sionide, that's not an argument, I am running Windows for more than a decade and no one has hacked it as well 10:51:10 <Chris82> normal desktop PCs are not hacked anyway unless a noob downloading dialers or stuff like that sits in front of it 10:51:21 <Maedhros> err, no 10:51:33 <Caemyr> firewall 10:51:34 <Maedhros> my roommate once got a virus within 5 minutes of installing windows xp :p 10:51:36 <Caemyr> but no windows 10:51:40 <Caemyr> antivirus 10:51:40 <geoff_k> or installing a load of freeware from silly places 10:51:45 <Rubidium> Chris82: I've been using Debian since 2000 and even in those days it worked like it works now 10:51:45 <Maedhros> without doing anything himself 10:51:52 <eekee> heh, you run anything like ssh, you can watch the attempts being made to crack your password in your logs 10:52:08 <Chris82> Rubidium: Yeah Debian is much better than Red Hat anyway or Fedora as it is called now 10:52:09 <Caemyr> eekee: better to watch it live 10:52:14 <Gekkko> Chris82: you said you've been hacked twice 10:52:14 <Caemyr> its quite funny actually 10:52:25 <Chris82> on Linux yes 10:52:29 <Chris82> not on Windows 10:52:31 <Gekkko> rofl. 10:52:38 <Caemyr> i sometimes enable ftp server 10:52:40 <Gekkko> high five for you 10:52:43 <eekee> Caemyr: eh, no-one's got in in 2.5 years, or if they have they haven't found my system worth damaging 10:52:49 <Gekkko> here's a clue: don't put ssh on port 22 10:52:51 <geoff_k> eekee, you can use ssh keys to prevent logins without the key you can't then 10:52:55 <Caemyr> to see some jerks do dictionary attacks 10:52:55 <Gekkko> don't put ftp on whatever it's port is 10:52:56 <Gekkko> 21? 10:52:59 <Caemyr> hah 10:53:01 <Chris82> 21 yeah 10:53:02 <Rubidium> oh, and I've been running multiple servers for about the same time and I've never had any breakins 10:53:04 <geoff_k> i dot use ftp its bad 10:53:07 <eekee> geoff_k: interesting, ty 10:53:09 <geoff_k> dot/dont 10:53:09 <Caemyr> 21 10:53:11 <Caemyr> why not? 10:53:17 <Gekkko> scp for the win 10:53:17 <Sionide> my ssh runs one time passwords... pretty difficult to hack that, even though the source is as open as anything 10:53:19 <Gekkko> and ftp is insecure 10:53:24 <Gekkko> and takes 10 steps to transfer one file 10:53:29 <Gekkko> its on some wiki 10:53:31 <Gekkko> ill get the link 10:53:32 <Caemyr> you generate 32 char password 10:53:40 <Gekkko> passphrase is the best 10:53:42 <Caemyr> and see them sweating over it 10:53:42 <Chris82> well my passwords are definitely not the problem they look like #23sHH#323?sdHH 10:53:44 <Gekkko> something like 10:53:45 <Chris82> and change every 2 weeks 10:53:49 <geoff_k> ftp transfers passwords unencrypted same goes for http always use https 10:53:50 <eekee> I had pure-ftpd running for a long stretch & no trouble :D 10:53:51 <Gekkko> It rains more on a Sunday than a Monday. 10:54:15 <Chris82> I am running BulletProof FTP 10:54:21 <Chris82> but I don't think that's open source 10:54:31 <eekee> then again, it wsan't like, and advertised server, but I could watch access attempts in the logs ^^;;; 10:54:33 <Caemyr> but i must say i`m quite pleased of my win2k3 standart 10:54:34 <TheJosh> what are the paramters for the gui widget WWT_IMGBTN 10:54:38 <Gekkko> Chris82: do you pay for your Windows 10:54:41 <geoff_k> i use sftp and windows users can conect using winscp which is damn nice tool 10:54:46 <Caemyr> it`s perfect as a desktop:P 10:54:57 <Caemyr> faster than xp 10:55:00 <Chris82> Gekkko: Sometimes. Depends on if I am using an MSDNAA version or something like Vista Ultimate. 10:55:08 <Rubidium> FTP is broken by design when you need authentication (period). 10:55:15 <Gekkko> By that I mean you don't pirate it. 10:55:18 <Chris82> I don't mind paying for it, I get very good and virtually free telephone support for it. 10:55:27 <Gekkko> Do you pirate software Chris82? 10:55:27 <Chris82> Ack @Rubidium 10:55:32 <Chris82> No. 10:55:41 <Chris82> Even my Photoshop is an original :p 10:55:41 <Gekkko> Have you ever installed pirated software Chris82? 10:55:46 <Gekkko> lol idiot. 10:55:46 <Chris82> Yes. 10:55:49 <Caemyr> :)) 10:55:54 <Caemyr> sincere at least 10:55:57 <Gekkko> Do you realise that they are crammed with keyloggers? 10:56:02 <Gekkko> and trojans and rootkits? 10:56:04 <Caemyr> lawl 10:56:08 <Chris82> Why? The Adobe Suite only costs 300 bucks for students 10:56:17 <Gekkko> only 10:56:18 <hylje> "only" 10:56:18 <Maedhros> "only" ?! 10:56:19 <Chris82> and I can remove it from my taxes 10:56:20 <Gekkko> I love the use of only. 10:56:23 <Caemyr> Gekkko: do you use windows? 10:56:24 <TheJosh> i want to disable a WWT_IMGBTN 10:56:24 <TheJosh> a button on the transperency gui 10:56:29 <Chris82> I know that's not the right word, but I don't know how it is called 10:56:29 <Caemyr> at all? 10:56:35 <Gekkko> Caemyr: only at school, and even the I use PuTTY 10:56:47 <hylje> Gekkko: pirate software is generally virus free 10:56:48 <Caemyr> this is when a good antivirus comes in handy 10:56:49 <geoff_k> Gekkko, try winscp 10:56:52 <Caemyr> like Nod32 10:56:57 <Gekkko> hylje: the crack isnt 10:56:58 <Rubidium> Gekkko: using putty to telnet ;) 10:57:00 <Chris82> well tell me one Open Source software that is even closely as user friendly and good as Photoshop and Dreamweaver and Premiere :D 10:57:04 <Chris82> then I might consider using this software 10:57:09 <Gekkko> Chris82: XaraXL 10:57:12 <Caemyr> also a good IDS 10:57:12 <Gekkko> Inkscape 10:57:14 <Caemyr> like Jetico 10:57:21 <Gekkko> GIMPshop 10:57:22 <Chris82> does it work on Windows? 10:57:27 <Gekkko> yes yes and yes 10:57:29 <hylje> Gekkko: the crackers, scene groups usually, never plant malware on their products; cracks, keygens 10:57:38 <Gekkko> hylje: that's what they want you to think 10:57:39 <Chris82> good joke hylje 10:57:49 <Gekkko> how do you think they crack the serials in the first place? 10:57:51 <Gekkko> they stockpile them 10:57:53 <Gekkko> lol 10:58:04 <Chris82> my dad is one of these computer noobs going to a crack site and having ten viruses per week :D 10:58:09 <hylje> you can of course get your cracks from dodgy sites 10:58:16 <Gekkko> lol 10:58:19 <Caemyr> Gekkko: this is true 10:58:21 <Gekkko> love the use of dodgy site 10:58:28 <Gekkko> what kind of crack site isnt dodgy 10:58:31 <Chris82> All crack sites are dodgy if you ask me :p 10:58:43 <Gekkko> Pure cracks, courtesy of virii.ru 10:58:49 <Gekkko> affiliate of trojan.ro 10:58:55 <Caemyr> depends where do you get the pirated stuff from 10:59:00 <hylje> due to what the cracker groups are, they do not have official sites per se 10:59:04 <Caemyr> but this is not the good topic for discussion 10:59:07 <Gekkko> why pirate when you can use Linux 10:59:11 <Gekkko> my pc boots in 20 seconds flat. 10:59:11 <Chris82> Well I don't like pirated software 10:59:20 <Gekkko> no 10:59:20 <Chris82> I either buy it or use free software 10:59:22 <Gekkko> not Linux 10:59:23 <Gekkko> GNU/* 10:59:29 <Gekkko> screw the kernel 10:59:31 <hylje> GNU/bsd? 10:59:32 <Gekkko> any kernel is good. 10:59:36 <Gekkko> GNU/kFreeBSD 10:59:37 <Caemyr> Gekkko: did you buy TTDLX? 10:59:42 <Chris82> I tried to use Sun OS once it looked really nifty, but nothing runs on it :D 10:59:42 <geoff_k> Gekkko, i agree i have no need for cracked stuff, linux does everything *i* need which is quite a lot 10:59:42 <Gekkko> GNU/NetBSD 10:59:47 <Gekkko> GNU/Hurd 10:59:49 <Gekkko> GNU/Mach 10:59:58 <geoff_k> i can do far more on linux than any windows box will let me 10:59:58 <eekee> I'm more presonally inclined to screw GNU than the kernel :D 10:59:59 <Chris82> Caemyr: Don't say you have a pirated copy of TTDLX =O =O 11:00:01 <Gekkko> Chris82: do you realise how ancient that is 11:00:02 <Chris82> Shame on you ;) 11:00:04 <Caemyr> nope 11:00:10 <Caemyr> i`m asking Gekkko:) 11:00:13 <Gekkko> Caemyr: my TTDX is DOS version 11:00:13 <Gekkko> :D 11:00:19 <Gekkko> I'm just that hardcore. 11:00:25 <Chris82> yeah I have the dos version on diskettes :D haha 11:00:25 <hylje> i wouldnt really put abandonware under piracy 11:00:27 <Chris82> good old times 11:00:28 <Caemyr> when did you buy it?:) 11:00:30 * geoff_k wants to try gnu/hurd, im in progress of making space to get the iso's 11:00:33 <Sionide> Gekkko, pfft i'm got TTDO on floppy disk at home 11:00:38 <Gekkko> like 8 years ago in a rack :) 11:00:42 <Gekkko> lol 11:00:48 <peter1138> i'd put abandonware under 'imagination' and 'figment of' 11:00:48 <Caemyr> you are a Linux user arent you?:) 11:00:50 <Sionide> i've** 11:00:53 <Gekkko> me? 11:01:04 <eekee> Peter's technically right :/ 11:01:08 <Sionide> woah let's not get into this debate though.. 11:01:10 <Gekkko> Linux stasi 2.6.18.1 #1 Thu Feb 1 23:05:39 PUP 2007 i686 GNU/Linux 11:01:20 <Chris82> stasi? 11:01:23 <Chris82> that's your username? 11:01:24 <hylje> box name 11:01:24 <Chris82> lol 11:01:27 <Gekkko> boxname 11:01:28 <Caemyr> rotfl 11:01:29 <Chris82> ah 11:01:29 <Sionide> Gekkko, get a kernal upgrade :P 11:01:29 <Sionide> Linux sphinx 2.6.20-16-generic #2 SMP Thu Jun 7 20:19:32 UTC 2007 i686 GNU/Linux 11:01:30 <Caemyr> nice 11:01:30 <Gekkko> :) 11:01:36 <Chris82> good name for a non calling home box :D haha 11:01:38 <Gekkko> Sionide: make me 11:01:39 <Gekkko> lol 11:01:43 <Sionide> Gekkko, make install you? 11:01:46 <Sionide> lol -_- 11:01:49 <Gekkko> you wouldnt dare 11:01:52 <hylje> make love --not war 11:01:54 <Gekkko> I'll nmap you 11:02:01 <Gekkko> xD 11:02:08 <Sionide> Gekkko, i'll... traceroute you! zomg i'm such a l33t hacker :D 11:02:12 <hylje> z0mg 11:02:17 <Gekkko> Sionide: NOES 11:02:20 <TrueBrain> I smell 2 bans coming up... 11:02:26 * Sionide quietens down again 11:02:26 <Chris82> anyway let's end this debate and say nothing is better or worse, Linux and Windows both have its advantages and disadvantages and tastes are different, so this would be a never ending story :D 11:02:30 <Gekkko> You'll find my secret stash of furniture porn! 11:02:38 <hylje> FURniture 11:02:41 <hylje> your secret is out 11:02:45 <Gekkko> Chris82: you can't win 11:02:46 <Sionide> haha 11:02:47 <eekee> hehehehehehe 11:02:51 <Gekkko> only opensource can 11:02:56 <Chris82> I don't intend to win. 11:03:03 <Chris82> I want peace ^:D lol 11:03:03 <Gekkko> as open source has more pros than cons 11:03:06 <hylje> so you win.. by losing? 11:03:09 <Chris82> not for me 11:03:17 <Gekkko> Chris82: go back to the 70's 11:03:19 <Gekkko> make love not war. 11:03:21 <Gekkko> lol 11:03:23 <Chris82> too complicated and time consuming, the software that I need is not available, games don't run well 11:03:27 <Maedhros> Gekkko: drop it, please... 11:03:35 <Chris82> anyway I said let's end it 11:03:38 <Biff> WAR=0 make love 11:03:39 <Gekkko> but but but but 11:03:42 <Rubidium> I'll guess I must get Gekkko's IP address and do a `iptables -A INPUT -s <Gekko's IP> -j MIRROR` 11:03:52 <Chris82> lol 11:03:53 <Rubidium> then he may try to hack me 11:04:00 <Gekkko> nah 11:04:03 <Gekkko> I'm a lazy sod. 11:04:05 <Gekkko> lol 11:04:11 <Gekkko> and if you hack me and erase everything 11:04:13 <Gekkko> I won't die. 11:04:16 <Gekkko> I have backups 11:04:21 <Gekkko> backing up a 100mb partition isnt hard 11:04:24 <Gekkko> easily done daily. 11:04:26 <Caemyr> dvd-rw is a wondrous device 11:04:31 <hylje> 100mb? what? 11:04:32 <Gekkko> you wanna hear insanity? 11:04:36 <Gekkko> I use my pc in root. 11:04:38 <TheJosh> how could I disable a button based on a patch optoin? 11:04:40 <hylje> you pervert 11:04:42 <Gekkko> no user accounts whatsoever 11:04:49 <Rubidium> Gekkko: question is how long you keep those backups 11:04:49 <eekee> oh ah, that's bad! lol 11:04:50 <Caemyr> Gekkko: its ok if you know what you do 11:04:57 <Gekkko> Caemyr: I know what I do. 11:04:58 <hylje> no it isnt 11:05:02 <Caemyr> this is my point 11:05:03 <TrueBrain> it is never okay 11:05:05 <TrueBrain> software have bugs 11:05:05 <Gekkko> noone gives me reason why running root is bad 11:05:10 <hylje> humans are by definition stupid 11:05:15 <Caemyr> Gekkko: i`m better 11:05:21 <TrueBrain> software as root user with bugs means trouble 11:05:22 <geoff_k> lvm snapshots are good for backing up volumes 11:05:23 <eekee> what, and computers aren't? :D 11:05:31 <Caemyr> i`m running admin account on my win2k3 desk right now 11:05:38 <hylje> well 11:05:38 <Gekkko> TrueBrain: backups = no trouble 11:05:43 <hylje> thats because you can't run windows as user 11:05:50 <Caemyr> you can 11:05:52 <Chris82> Sure you can 11:05:54 <TrueBrain> Gekkko: depends how long you keep backups 11:05:54 <hylje> why dont you then 11:05:59 <Gekkko> running Windows as user is like killing yourself with a spoon 11:06:01 <Chris82> but then it's as complicated as Linux to work with it :D lol 11:06:01 <Caemyr> why should i? 11:06:06 <hylje> hence you can't 11:06:14 <Caemyr> Gekkko: more like a chopstick 11:06:19 <Gekkko> Chris82: Wine is perfect for playing games. 11:06:20 <hylje> if its possible but not usable, it doesnt exist 11:06:29 <Chris82> Is it better in the meantime? 11:06:31 <Caemyr> Gekkko: lawl 11:06:34 <Gekkko> I ran NWN on a Voodoo3 using Mesa 11:06:35 <Chris82> I have used it a few years ago the last time 11:06:37 <eekee> haha perfect 11:06:38 <Gekkko> thats 8mb 11:06:39 <geoff_k> my fav games are opensource linux/windows so im happy 11:06:40 <Caemyr> try to play online server with Pb 11:06:41 <Gekkko> the minimum is 32mb 11:06:43 <Chris82> do games like Oblivion work with it? 11:06:43 <TrueBrain> hylje: you are opssible, but not usable, so you don't exist... cool! 11:06:48 <hylje> TrueBrain: oh yes 11:06:55 <Gekkko> geoff_k: Alpha Centauri :D 11:06:56 <Caemyr> Punkbuster 11:07:03 <TrueBrain> use Cedega 11:07:04 <Chris82> or Supreme Commander? 11:07:04 <geoff_k> i like freeciv 11:07:10 <hylje> cedega sucks 11:07:12 <eekee> I kinda miss Alpha Centaurii 11:07:16 <Gekkko> geoff_k: I'm not fond of it 11:07:19 <TrueBrain> cedega runs more games than wine 11:07:21 <Gekkko> eekee: it has native Linux support 11:07:24 <TrueBrain> at least it runs HL2 :) 11:07:25 <Gekkko> I downloaded it recently 11:07:29 <Gekkko> you can't buy it anywhere 11:07:30 <hylje> wine gets better all the time, but it already runs all the games and little utilities i may need 11:07:31 <Gekkko> I mean anywhere. 11:07:33 <Chris82> didn't you have to pay for WINE anyway ? 11:07:33 <hylje> so i dont really care 11:07:34 <geoff_k> only this game and freeciv i ever play these days 11:07:34 <eekee> Gekko: I know, looked for it on ebay once; nothing 11:07:37 <hylje> Chris82: no 11:07:43 <Gekkko> I <3 .torrents 11:07:59 <Caemyr> hylje: but there are still plenty of games that they cant run 11:08:07 <hylje> not that many really 11:08:19 <Caemyr> also sometimes new revisions dont run games that earlier revisions could 11:08:30 <eekee> I kinda prefer openttd to freeciv. I feel violent when I play most strategy games :D I'm kinda bipolar, I even find myself wantign to get too compettitive in OpenTTD 11:08:58 <Chris82> Cedega: nVidia GeForce class video card (recommended) are they serious? 11:09:01 <geoff_k> opensource roller coaster tycoon would be good, but its not got much potential for multiplayer 11:09:06 <Chris82> =O What about ATI? lol 11:09:17 <Gekkko> Chris82: ATi is easier to install, but has lesser features 11:09:18 <hylje> ati works, but at the moment ati drivers suck 11:09:21 <eekee> Chris82: Yeah, nVidia has better opengl support as far as I gather 11:09:30 <Gekkko> I have both nvidia and ati 11:09:32 <Chris82> ewwww OpenGL *g* 11:09:36 <Caemyr> ati driver sucks?:) 11:09:40 <Gekkko> my nvidia 64mb is better than my ati 128mb 11:09:41 <Gekkko> >_> 11:09:42 <Zr40> what's ewwww about OpenGL? 11:09:44 <Caemyr> you should check it on windows 11:09:47 <Gekkko> i get 16 fps on my ati 11:09:47 <Chris82> that was a joke :p 11:09:50 <Gekkko> 50 on my nvidia 11:09:53 <Caemyr> ATI is better in dx than ogl 11:09:53 <Gekkko> its flawed. 11:09:58 <hylje> Chris82: you are succumbed to MS FUD about ogl 11:10:01 <Caemyr> still has issues with ogl 11:10:01 <eekee> Chris82: lol, whot, you meen using Windows drivers that disable OpenGL acceleration or something? :D 11:10:18 <Caemyr> but nvidia drivers hack kernel so much on NT 11:10:21 <Chris82> well on Vista ATI performance is great for D3D games, OpenGL sucks of course 11:10:29 <Caemyr> you can get BSODs regularly 11:10:31 <Chris82> anyway, is there a compatibility list for Cedega somwhere? 11:10:34 <Gekkko> LOL BSOD 11:10:44 <hylje> vista gfx driver architechture sucks 11:10:48 <Chris82> BSOD? Never saw one on Vista, I already doubt they exist *g* 11:10:54 <Gekkko> http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/areir/26714/315686/0/bsod.jpg 11:10:58 <Caemyr> Chris82 start with opengl sucking on vista, big time 11:10:59 <Chris82> Well, it makes things slower that's true 11:10:59 <Gekkko> look at that 11:11:01 <Gekkko> tis amusing 11:11:03 <Chris82> but it also reduces crashes 11:11:11 <Caemyr> Chris: nope 11:11:19 <Chris82> for me it does 11:11:20 <Caemyr> comparing to XP they moved whole Dx to usermode 11:11:24 <Caemyr> from km 11:11:27 <Gekkko> http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/areir/26714/315686/0/bsod.jpg <-- BSOD lolol 11:11:33 <Chris82> The Catalyst drivers and Logitech webcam drivers causes massive bluescreens on XP 11:11:36 <Chris82> they don't do on Vista 11:11:45 <Caemyr> Chris82: in your dream 11:11:46 <Caemyr> :) 11:11:46 <Zr40> Chris82: then why am I not getting them? 11:11:58 <Caemyr> Nvidia drivers=yes 11:11:59 <Chris82> anyway, I am searching for a compatibility list for Cedega 11:12:00 <Caemyr> not ati 11:12:06 <Chris82> I wanted to check if my games run with it so I can test it 11:13:08 <eekee> Chris82: check transgaming.org 11:13:15 <geoff_k> another game i'd like is something like age of Empires II on linux, few patches to something like that i'd be addicted 11:13:19 <Gekkko> Chris82: I do believe your XP was screwed over by the confederacy 11:13:20 <Ailure> [13:09] <Gekkko> http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/areir/26714/315686/0/bsod.jpg <-- BSOD lolol 11:13:24 <eekee> (or .net <_< it's been a while) 11:13:26 <Ailure> I assume that's some kind of screensaver? 11:13:26 <Ailure> xD 11:13:30 <Chris82> (12 months; 55 USD annually; one month free) =O 11:13:38 <Gekkko> Ailure: no, just a superimposed error for an error 11:13:40 <Gekkko> lol 11:13:42 <Chris82> do I read that wrongfully? or do I have to pay 55 USD a year to use it 11:13:44 <Ailure> ah 11:13:48 <Gekkko> but there is a bsod screensaver 11:13:48 <Ailure> oh well 11:13:49 <Gekkko> that's funny 11:13:50 <Ailure> lunctime! 11:13:51 <hylje> you can pirate it just fine 11:13:51 <Zr40> Chris82: no. You pay for updates 11:13:54 <Gekkko> looks like your pc rebooting over and over 11:14:05 <Chris82> What is the price to initially buy it then? 11:14:28 <eekee> yeah.. I... uh... foud wine + cracks to run several games that cedega wouldn't <_<; 11:14:41 <hylje> wine is better than cedega 11:14:51 <Zr40> Chris82: (three months of updates) 11:15:00 <Gekkko> lol 11:15:01 <hylje> all that's in for cedega is the proprietary copyprot support 11:15:04 <Gekkko> here's something fun 11:15:05 <Chris82> That's a bit expensive. 11:15:06 <Gekkko> google crack.exe 11:15:08 <Gekkko> download it 11:15:10 <Gekkko> run it in wine 11:15:21 <Gekkko> amusing results 11:15:26 <Gekkko> seeing a trojan cave into itself 11:15:29 <eekee> haha 11:15:31 <hylje> but wine is doing the lower-level approach, eventually supporting native copyprot 11:15:34 <hylje> :o 11:15:39 <Chris82> Buying cedega doesn't really make sense imho, you can simply buy an OEM XP to play games as well :p lol 11:15:48 <Gekkko> HOW THE HELL DO I UMOUNT A DAMN IPOD 11:15:58 <hylje> eject it 11:16:00 <Chris82> iPod is Mac optimized didn't you know :p 11:16:03 <Zr40> Gekkko: I assume you haven't rebooted yet 11:16:08 <Gekkko> i did 11:16:13 <Chris82> and it's still there? 11:16:14 <eekee> Gekkko: Just reboot :/ umounting is one of Linuxes weakest points, IMHO 11:16:19 <eekee> What????? 11:16:19 <TheJosh> does gtkpod have a remove thingo? 11:16:24 <hylje> Chris82: but that involves rebooting all the time 11:16:24 <Gekkko> dont think so 11:16:28 <Gekkko> eekee: i did reboot 11:16:32 <eekee> dayyyum 11:16:40 <Chris82> You mean XP involves rebooting? 11:16:43 <Gekkko> lol #openttd is better than ##linux on freenode 11:16:45 <Chris82> since when do I need to reboot for games 11:16:51 <Gekkko> you dont get kicked for asking amusingly noobish questions 11:16:54 <TheJosh> ipods have big cahces on them. if you transfer songs, it returns immedietly, but is still transferrign 11:17:07 <eekee> Not necessarily. VMware or Qemu or soemthing like that may help, but drivers may be an issue 11:17:08 <Caemyr> rebooting? 11:17:10 <Caemyr> lawl 11:17:14 <Caemyr> years ago maybe 11:17:23 <TheJosh> Gekko: have you tried hacking? 11:17:26 <Gekkko> TheJosh: the little spinny thing on it isnt doing the spinny thing 11:17:30 <Gekkko> TheJosh: using mtab 11:17:31 <Gekkko> ? 11:17:36 <TheJosh> poor spinny thing 11:17:42 <TheJosh> i feel sorry for it 11:17:47 <Gekkko> why 11:17:53 <TheJosh> it cant spin 11:17:53 <Gekkko> because it's an apple gif? 11:17:58 <Gekkko> I've hacked ipods muchly. 11:17:59 <eekee> Gekkko: do you have an automounter running? 11:18:03 <Gekkko> eekee: nope 11:18:06 <eekee> ok 11:18:07 <TheJosh> killall * 11:18:08 <Gekkko> I'm too hardcore for udev 11:18:11 <TheJosh> rm -rf / 11:18:12 <eekee> hehe 11:18:13 <TheJosh> init 6 11:18:14 <Gekkko> killall -9 * 11:18:18 <Gekkko> lol init 6 11:18:21 <Gekkko> teh sex right there 11:18:23 <Gekkko> teh sex. 11:18:27 <Rubidium> kill -9 -1 11:18:28 <eekee> lawl 11:18:31 <Chris82> well SupCom has bugs with Cedega and Oblivion doesn't work at all, checking WINE :D 11:18:32 <TheJosh> sudo rm -rf ./ 11:18:41 <Gekkko> OH FFS 11:18:42 <Gekkko> I KNOW WHY 11:18:45 <Gekkko> it's busybox mount 11:18:49 <Gekkko> that makes me angered in so many ways 11:18:52 <TheJosh> ! 11:18:55 <eekee> *blinkus?* 11:18:57 <hylje> enjoy your uid=0 11:19:06 <SmatZ> :) 11:19:11 <Gekkko> I'm gonna nuke it 11:19:16 <Gekkko> i've got normal mount compiled 11:19:18 <Gekkko> just gotta install it 11:19:27 <TheJosh> NUKE IT 11:19:31 <TheJosh> dban 11:19:34 <Gekkko> wait 11:19:35 <Gekkko> i lied,. 11:19:39 <Gekkko> I don't have mount 11:19:41 <Gekkko> shit 11:19:44 <hylje> . 11:19:45 <Chris82> Oblivion doesn't work with WINE as well 11:19:46 <TheJosh> d.*s boot and nuke 11:19:48 <Chris82> pity :D 11:19:56 <Gekkko> pity? 11:19:58 <Gekkko> it's a crappy game. 11:19:59 <Gekkko> >_> 11:20:02 <Chris82> I like it 11:20:05 <Gekkko> Real men don't play games. 11:20:09 <Gekkko> "games" 11:20:12 <Gekkko> lol 11:20:13 <Chris82> lol 11:20:16 <eekee> real men are scary 11:20:19 <Caemyr> dont play "crappy" games 11:20:27 <Chris82> real men watch porn instead ? 11:20:28 <Gekkko> thats why i used " " 11:20:35 <hylje> oblivion barely worked on windows :\ 11:20:37 <Gekkko> real men watch porn while play OTTD while compiling 11:20:44 <Chris82> well it works fine for me 11:20:48 <Caemyr> define barely 11:20:51 <eekee> lololol Gekkko 11:20:55 <Gekkko> NWN2 at 17fps rocks my sox 11:20:56 <hylje> memoryleaked like crazy 11:21:04 <Caemyr> nwn sux 11:21:08 <TrueBrain> UT2003 works with Wine, nuff for me :) 11:21:11 <Chris82> well that has nothing to do with Windows 11:21:14 <Chris82> that's a bug in the game 11:21:21 <hylje> it still didnt quite work 11:21:21 <Caemyr> poor programming 11:21:30 <hylje> stop defending your poor platform 11:21:35 <Chris82> yeah the first version was ugly, but the patches fixed it 11:21:39 <eekee> SL memory leaks like steenk 11:21:41 <Caemyr> who is poor here? 11:21:46 <eekee> Me! 11:21:50 <eekee> sorry <_<; 11:21:52 * Chris82 gives money :D 11:21:55 <Caemyr> begging for drivers 11:21:56 <Gekkko> you better 11:21:56 <Chris82> :p 11:21:59 <eekee> Yay! <3 *hugs* XD 11:22:25 <Chris82> I go play a real game now 11:22:31 <Chris82> OTTD that is :D 11:22:34 <eekee> :D 11:22:40 <Gekkko> Dual monitors 11:22:44 <SmatZ> :D 11:22:44 <Gekkko> removes the need to "multitask" 11:22:52 <Gekkko> also makes a nice playing field for OTTD 11:22:53 <Caemyr> at least we can agree to one thing 11:22:57 <Caemyr> OTTD rox 11:22:57 <Gekkko> 2048 x 768 11:22:59 <Chris82> yeah 11:23:05 * eekee refrains from comments abotu Windows multitasking :D 11:23:07 <Gekkko> can see an entire map 11:23:07 <Gekkko> lol 11:23:08 <Chris82> OTTD is bringing the people together and works on every platform :D 11:23:11 <Gekkko> eekee: I HATE IT 11:23:12 <Caemyr> please refrain 11:23:13 <Gekkko> SO VERY VERY MUCH 11:23:14 <SmatZ> :-) 11:23:16 <hylje> i use ottd on a 800x600 window 11:23:17 <Gekkko> that's one reason I use Linux 11:23:26 <hylje> out of a 1600x1200 desktop 11:23:27 <Gekkko> it supports multiple monitors properly 11:23:36 <Gekkko> Windows chokes at the concept 11:23:38 <Gekkko> and shits up the walls 11:23:44 <Gekkko> gets set loose in a padded cell 11:23:50 <Gekkko> and still finds a way to kill itself 11:23:54 <hylje> which is for the record larger than Gekkko's 11:23:54 <eekee> hylje: I play in 800x600 & in 1680x1050, depending on whether I'm in bed or at the desktop lol 11:23:57 <Caemyr> lawl 11:24:01 <Chris82> try http://realtimesoft.com/multimon/ on windows 11:24:04 <Chris82> that's a nifty tool 11:24:23 <Gekkko> hylje: it's one monitor 11:24:26 <Gekkko> and it isnt "bigger" 11:24:29 <Gekkko> the resolution is higher 11:24:29 <hylje> it is 11:24:38 <Gekkko> therefore on a screen, it's smaller 11:24:38 <Gekkko> :P 11:24:39 <hylje> resolution defines the viewing area 11:24:43 <Gekkko> yes 11:24:44 <Caemyr> Gekkko: Linux feels Win just behind its back, this is why you penguinistas get so aggresive about it 11:24:48 <Gekkko> but its not seen bigger 11:24:51 <Gekkko> its showing more 11:25:03 <Chris82> I agree with you about that Caemyr :) 11:25:07 <Gekkko> Caemyr: Linux has nothing to do with my argument 11:25:09 <Chris82> but Mac users are even worse 11:25:17 <Gekkko> I don't give a flaming shit about the kernel, I <3 GNU 11:25:22 <Gekkko> www.badvista.org 11:25:27 <hylje> technically superior OS zealots are generally bitter 11:25:32 <Chris82> It's really seldom that I hear Windows users bashing "others", I can't say that for many Maccies 11:25:43 <Caemyr> Gekkko: XP had the similar ambience when it appeared 11:25:46 <hylje> windows users are apathetic 11:26:06 <Caemyr> hylje: linux users even more 11:26:08 <Gekkko> hylje: not true >_> 11:26:11 <Gekkko> they bash people 11:26:12 <Gekkko> lol 11:26:27 <hylje> linux (and mac) people tend to be more aware of their stuff 11:26:38 <Caemyr> not true 11:26:47 <eekee> Yeah, the average Windows user may be pleasantly apathetic, btu there are enough... eh... 11:26:51 <Caemyr> especially for Mac users 11:26:56 <hylje> "omg, this sucks" 11:26:59 <Chris82> http://badvista.fsf.org/what-s-wrong-with-microsoft-windows-vista.... they should go to RIAA and complain about DRM 11:27:03 <Chris82> not to Microsoft 11:27:11 <hylje> its not like they havent tried 11:27:19 <hylje> riaa just wants their monies 11:27:26 <hylje> not particularly happy customers 11:27:28 <Caemyr> who doesnt 11:27:38 <hylje> open source? :p 11:27:49 <hylje> consulting business moreso than intellectual property 11:27:53 <Zr40> "Even when you legally buy Vista, you don't own it." <-- that's the case for XP, 2000, 98, 95, 3.11, ... 11:27:55 <Caemyr> like red hat? 11:27:56 <Chris82> How does Open Source enable you to listen to music that is otherwise DRM protected? 11:27:59 <Chris82> that's no solution :p 11:28:06 <eekee> Caemyr: people who don't think that MORE MORE MORE MORE is the only way? In other words, sane people? 11:28:09 <Chris82> unless you pidate the Music of course 11:28:16 <hylje> you crack the DRM usually legall 11:28:17 <hylje> y 11:28:19 <Chris82> but I don't want to do that, I'd rather fight for fair prices 11:28:20 <Caemyr> eekee: not 11:28:27 <Chris82> I mean 1 USD for one track is insane 11:28:32 <TheJosh> Gekkko: work it out? 11:28:33 <Caemyr> but when i hear someone trying to convince me 11:28:46 <TheJosh> me off 11:28:47 *** TheJosh [~josh@d58-104-127-103.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has left #openttd [] 11:28:48 <Caemyr> that running closed source app is bad because it limits my freedom 11:29:01 <Caemyr> i want to smack such person so hard he gets into orbit 11:29:01 <geoff_k> before we know it linux could well be packed with drm 11:29:02 <Gekkko> I hate how cd's dont automount 11:29:05 <Gekkko> thats the only thing i hate 11:29:09 <Gekkko> yes udev supports that 11:29:12 <Gekkko> but i dont support udev 11:29:12 <hylje> Gekkko: set up udev+hal 11:29:26 <hylje> enjoy your technical inferiority, and dont whine about it 11:29:31 <hylje> you got your choice 11:29:31 <Gekkko> oh wait 11:29:34 <Gekkko> it does automount 11:29:36 <Gekkko> holy crap 11:29:37 <eekee> i'm not quite that evangelical any more. 11:29:39 <Gekkko> i dont even have udev 11:29:39 <Gekkko> >_> 11:29:58 <hylje> Caemyr: you get inherently more choices to yourself with open source 11:30:05 <geoff_k> watch out for trusted computing when that tech finaly kicks in, sounds scarey 11:30:11 <hylje> Caemyr: closed source is very much lock-in, and that's not always fun 11:30:17 <Caemyr> closed-source is one of those choices 11:30:26 <hylje> the fun thing about that is the lock in 11:30:30 <Caemyr> and any attempt to limit it is limiting my freedom 11:30:37 <hylje> you have much less choices then 11:30:41 <Caemyr> no 11:31:00 <Caemyr> i can run open source apps on windows as well 11:31:11 <hylje> but closed source apps lock you to windows 11:31:22 <Caemyr> no one locks me to windows 11:31:27 <Caemyr> its my consent choice 11:32:09 <hylje> well it *is* a choice to limit later choices.. 11:32:09 <Zr40> Caemyr: so you run your financial administration on Windows, your games on Windows, your whatever on Windows 11:32:14 <eekee> your consent choice to use things that are only available for Windows? That's the lock-in ;) 11:32:16 <Zr40> then you decide to use Linux 11:32:18 <Zr40> or Mac OS 11:32:19 <Zr40> or BSD 11:32:25 <Caemyr> yes 11:32:32 <Caemyr> i could use linux 11:32:39 <Caemyr> for everything i need my pc for 11:32:45 <Zr40> you're still bound to Windows because of the financial administration software, the games and the whatever 11:32:48 <Caemyr> i dont play newest games 11:32:59 <Caemyr> erm 11:33:07 <Caemyr> what financial administration software? 11:33:17 <hylje> taxen 11:33:18 <Zr40> <Zr40> Caemyr: so you run your financial administration on Windows, your games on Windows, your whatever on Windows 11:33:22 <Zr40> that is an example. 11:33:29 <Zr40> I don't know what you actually run 11:33:45 <Caemyr> i can count my taxes on whatever os i choose 11:34:13 <Caemyr> Zr40: this is why i support ReactOS 11:34:23 * Chris82 repeats 11:34:24 <Chris82> anyway let's end this debate and say nothing is better or worse, Linux and Windows both have its advantages and disadvantages and tastes are different, so this would be a never ending story :D 11:34:26 <Chris82> ;) 11:34:28 <Caemyr> again 11:34:42 <Caemyr> freedom is the possibility to run everything as YOU want 11:34:50 <Caemyr> you want only opensource? 11:34:53 <Caemyr> why not 11:35:03 <Caemyr> you want other combination? please do 11:35:15 <Zr40> Caemyr: the problem with closed source software is that if you want to change the OS you're using, you can't use the closed source software anymore 11:35:22 <Caemyr> forcing someone to run only opensource is as bad, as forcing to run only closed source 11:35:23 *** SmatZ [~root@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:35:34 <hylje> your logic has the flaw that closed source forces a certain combination, in most cases 11:35:36 <Zr40> Caemyr: I'm not forcing anything, nor do I want to 11:35:40 <geoff_k> im 100% linux user but i'd windows has far better friendly office tools, and works good i large scale office desktop environment 11:35:47 <Caemyr> hylje: for now 11:35:52 <Gekkko> I'm back 11:35:56 <Caemyr> this is why WINE is being done 11:35:59 <Gekkko> I <3 Abiword and Gnumeric 11:36:02 <Caemyr> or dosbox 11:36:05 <Caemyr> or ReactOS 11:36:06 <Gekkko> don't need Microsoft Bloatware 11:36:17 <Gekkko> nor Linux Bloatware 11:36:26 <Chris82> argh I hate it when people release patches, and don't compile them to find a simple missing ; :D lol 11:36:27 <Gekkko> just pure miniature open source word processor 11:36:33 <Gekkko> OMFG SOMEONE MIGHT HACK MY WORD PROCESSOR 11:36:37 <Gekkko> please no Mr. Hacker 11:36:41 <Gekkko> dont look at the source 11:36:43 <Gekkko> OH NOES HE DID. 11:36:50 <Gekkko> Mr Aspergers is here to save the day 11:36:54 <Gekkko> for no apparent reason. 11:36:55 <eekee> hehehehehe 11:36:55 <Caemyr> as i told before 11:37:02 <Zr40> Gekkko: wtf? 11:37:10 <Caemyr> i heard some open source fanboys bashing WINE and ROS 11:37:19 <eekee> yeah some will 11:37:23 <Caemyr> because they think those projects harm opensource 11:37:31 <Zr40> Caemyr: their logic is flawed. 11:37:40 <eekee> it's the Firefox fanbois that make me laught the most 11:37:45 <Caemyr> becasue they make people perceive closed source apps as not that bad 11:37:55 <Caemyr> Zr40 11:37:59 <Caemyr> yes it is 11:38:02 <Gekkko> I love Opera though 11:38:10 <Caemyr> Gekkko: i second to that 11:38:16 <Gekkko> The only reason I believe it's not open source is because it's using QT commercial 11:38:25 <Gekkko> as QT Open Source isnt the best thign I've seen 11:38:30 <geoff_k> i like opera but its seems to have issues with flash on me so i don't use it 11:38:40 <Gekkko> I hate dillo 11:38:41 <Zr40> Gekkko: as it happens, the company I work for uses Qt 11:38:44 <Gekkko> i'd rather use elinks 11:38:46 <Gekkko> which i do use 11:38:49 <Gekkko> rather often. 11:38:52 <geoff_k> dillo is aweful 11:38:54 <Caemyr> Opera <3 11:38:56 <Gekkko> Zr40: I love how KDE looks 11:38:59 <Gekkko> I love KDE apps 11:39:02 <Gekkko> I hate KDE libs 11:39:03 <eekee> I'm using Firefox simply as my current Brower of Least Annoyance, & it's a pain, mew 11:39:05 <Caemyr> espeacially page content blocking 11:39:05 <Gekkko> I hate KDE WM 11:39:16 <Zr40> Gekkko: Qt Open Source isn't any different from the commercial version, it's just the difference of support 11:39:17 <Caemyr> i have most of the flash ads blocked out 11:39:25 <eekee> KDE WM you dont' have to use, but the libs I dunno 11:39:26 <hylje> Zr40: and viral licence 11:39:31 <Zr40> hylje: that too. 11:39:31 <Gekkko> Zr40: well, I wouldnt know since I don't use commercial version 11:39:32 <Gekkko> :P 11:39:39 <Gekkko> what's the viral licence 11:39:41 <hylje> gpl 11:39:42 <Gekkko> lol 11:39:46 <geoff_k> i use flash for my own chat clet on my own chat server otherwise i'd not be using it 11:39:51 <geoff_k> client* 11:39:52 <hylje> you link against GPL, you better comply with it 11:40:08 <hylje> hence if you link against GPL Qt, your app needs to be GPL too 11:40:11 <Gekkko> LGPL is BSD-esque 11:40:18 <Zr40> hylje: but only if you release the app 11:40:34 <hylje> that was an example 11:40:36 <hylje> but yes 11:40:41 <hylje> compliance is needed tho 11:41:06 <eekee> I like Torvald's policy for the kernel: GPL 2, & GPL 2 only, none of this letting Stallman dictate your future policy, for all he's done for OSS 11:41:45 <hylje> torvalds' 11:41:53 <eekee> lol, I like YouTube & other flash-based video sites, that's the only reason I have it 11:42:02 <eekee> hylje: ah yeah, ty 11:42:16 <Zr40> eekee: that's incorrect. Torvalds chose for GPL2-only because you can't be sure what's in GPL3. For it might allow, in theory, unfree things. 11:42:27 <Caemyr> lawl 11:42:31 *** Mucht [~Mucht@p57A0F6C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:42:33 <Caemyr> we are still waiting for Sun 11:42:39 <eekee> Zr40: He's sticking with GPL-2 in the face of the current GPL-3 11:42:40 <Caemyr> if Sun goes gpl3... 11:42:45 <Gekkko> Zr40: how many drafts have there been of gpl3 11:42:47 <geoff_k> there is a lot of worry about GPLv3 and possibility of DRM 11:42:49 <Zr40> eekee: because it's not been finalized yet. 11:42:59 <Gekkko> how many appendings and edition 11:43:00 <Gekkko> lol 11:43:12 <Zr40> Gekkko: I know. But when the kernel was released, there were no GPLv3 drafts yet 11:43:42 <eekee> Zr40: no, he's written a couple of essays sayign that while he doesn't like DRM, he doesn't feel it's his right to limit end-users choice in the matter. 11:43:59 <Zr40> eekee: did he write them before or after the first v3 draft? 11:44:24 <Gekkko> maybe torvalds should make a GPL-compatible LPL 11:44:29 <Gekkko> pfft 11:44:38 <Gekkko> L-GPL 11:44:46 <Gekkko> Linux - General Public Licence 11:44:55 <Gekkko> TGPL? 11:44:57 <eekee> Zr40: ugh.. okay, I didn't check that properly, but I kinda assumed after. Was there anythign in the first draft that might have softenned it? 11:44:58 <Gekkko> even easier. 11:44:59 <Gekkko> lol 11:45:29 <geoff_k> if linux give drm in furture i will start supporting gnu/hurd, im looking at starting anytime i want to be prepared 11:45:50 <eekee> I think if your license is a public license there's no need to add the general tag 11:45:57 <Gekkko> geoff_k: I plan to use Hurd as soon as it's stable 11:46:08 <geoff_k> Gekkko, same here as much as possible 11:46:12 <Zr40> eekee: v3 introduced limitations on DRM. v2 doesn't mention it, as that didn't exist back in 1991. 11:46:29 <Gekkko> Zr40: so you mean you cant use GPL with DRM products? 11:46:31 <Gekkko> I support that. 11:46:32 <geoff_k> i haven't looked at it yet but i agree with its policy 11:46:39 <Zr40> Gekkko: I didn't state that. 11:46:45 <Gekkko> I'd support that* 11:46:51 <eekee> geoff_k: DRM could technically cover companies in-house security systems for their in-house development, as I understand it. That's causing at least a little worry about the gpl3 11:46:59 <hylje> Gekkko: more like DRM'd linux kernel 11:47:04 <geoff_k> yeah eveil stuff 11:47:11 <Gekkko> explain exactly. 11:47:15 <Gekkko> it disallows DRM 11:47:17 <hylje> its open source, but you can't modify it 11:47:17 <Gekkko> or forces it 11:47:32 <geoff_k> thisd says everything http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing 11:47:35 <Gekkko> geoff_k: one problem is GNU/Hurd is GNU's kernel 11:47:37 <Zr40> hylje: that's nonsense. If it's open-source, you can just remove the DRM parts. 11:47:39 <Gekkko> meaning it will be gpl3 11:47:45 <Gekkko> so if it goes all eww on us... 11:47:50 <Gekkko> we don't really have any place toog 11:47:52 <Gekkko> to go* 11:47:53 <Gekkko> lol 11:47:57 <geoff_k> yeah true 11:48:03 <hylje> Zr40: if the drm parts are not in the kernel, but in the hardware, TCP / TiVo style.. 11:48:06 <Gekkko> but if the kernel you have works, why change 11:48:07 <Gekkko> lol 11:48:27 <Zr40> hylje: don't buy it :) 11:48:41 <hylje> for now 11:48:42 <eekee> Zr40: I'm not seeing what difference the first draft has here... I got the impression Torvalds read a draft or more than one before writing, but I'm not certain. His statements were general, he doesn't like limiting users freedom, even their freedom to use DRM-capable apps if desired 11:49:20 <Zr40> eekee: I was referring to the current kernel license, pointing out the reasons for being GPLv2 *only* 11:49:57 <Gekkko> hmm 11:50:04 <eekee> Zr40: yeah... I think we might have been talking slightly at cross-purposes, I'm sure it's not important 11:50:10 <Gekkko> I like how GPLv2 will stay valid even if GPLv3 comes into force 11:50:23 <eekee> well that's good 11:50:26 <Gekkko> is there a preamble that says that GPLv3 doesnt automatically cover GPLv2? 11:50:38 <Zr40> Gekkko: GPLv2 allows the choice of GPLv2 or any later version 11:50:52 <Biff> Zr40: wrong 11:51:10 <Gekkko> Isnt GPLv2 and v3 counted at seperate entities? 11:51:13 <Gekkko> like BSD vs GPL 11:51:14 <eekee> Oh, my... oh heck, not a worry as such, but a teeny bit of a concern, is that the core GNU tools will disalow GPL2 use 11:51:16 <Zr40> Biff: explain? 11:51:19 <Biff> but some software is licensed under "GPLv2 or later" 11:51:25 <Biff> like some parts of the linux kernel 11:51:28 <Biff> but not all of it 11:51:32 <Gekkko> eekee: I love to abuse my licence rights 11:51:38 <Gekkko> I plan to make GNU BSD 11:51:40 <Gekkko> lolol 11:51:41 <Biff> which is why it will be very hard to get the linux-kernel to GPLv3 11:52:04 <Gekkko> the transition will take many years 11:52:05 <Gekkko> an audit 11:52:06 <Gekkko> :) 11:52:08 <eekee> Biff: the standard GPLv2 explicitly includes a clause that any software licensed under this may also be used under the terms of a later version. That's the part Torvalds didnt' like 11:52:18 <Zr40> eekee: as Biff pointed out, that's not true 11:52:29 <eekee> Gekkko: I do every time I use the nvidia driver, mew 11:52:34 <Gekkko> eekee: I don't like that either 11:52:37 <Gekkko> that's odd. 11:52:39 <Zr40> eekee: the GPLv2 *suggests* the option, but you have to explitly state 'or any later version' 11:52:47 <eekee> gods... *rereads the gplv2 11:52:52 <Zr40> eekee: section 9 11:52:53 <eekee> Oh! hum 11:52:56 <eekee> tyvm 11:53:10 <Gekkko> why dont they just cut that option out 11:53:21 <Gekkko> GPL- 11:53:29 <Gekkko> noi 11:53:30 <Gekkko> GPL= 11:53:33 <Biff> eekee: Each version is given a distinguishing version number. If the Program 11:53:33 <Biff> specifies a version number of this License which applies to it and "any 11:53:33 <Biff> later version", you have the option of following the terms and conditions 11:53:33 <Biff> either of that version or of any later version published by the Free 11:53:34 <Gekkko> not GPL=> 11:53:35 <Biff> Software Foundation. 11:53:35 <Gekkko> :) 11:53:58 <Chris82> Peter1138 are you here? 11:54:01 <Zr40> Biff: I think the culprit is 'How to Apply These Terms to Your New Programs' 11:54:15 <Biff> i think about 40% of the linux kernel is licensed under GPLv2 or later 11:54:16 <Zr40> Biff: take a look at the fixed-width text, third paragraph 11:54:33 <Zr40> second* 11:54:44 <eekee> Oh great! I'd been under the wrong impression for 10 years, hehe 11:54:59 <Zr40> This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or 11:54:59 <Zr40> modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License 11:54:59 <Zr40> as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 11:54:59 <Zr40> of the License, or (at your option) any later version. 11:55:08 <Biff> the problem is that alot of people have contributed to the linux kernel, and everyone has to agree to change the license 11:55:29 <Biff> Zr40: yup, thats a suggested text you use in your program 11:55:38 <Biff> but alot of programs doesnt use that 11:55:39 <Zr40> Biff: I guess most just copy/paste that 11:56:04 <Biff> true, but as i said, alot of the kernel is explicit version 2 11:56:10 <Biff> which is a problem 11:56:18 <Zr40> Biff: actually, the whole kernel is v2-only 11:56:28 <Zr40> the LICENSE file states so 11:56:31 <Biff> not true 11:56:45 <Biff> the kernel as a whole is GPLv2 11:56:53 <Biff> but parts of the kernel is GPLv2 or later 11:57:06 <Zr40> then the kernel is in conflict with itself 11:57:11 <Biff> not at all 11:57:20 <Gekkko> gah 11:57:21 <Zr40> licensing the whole as GPLv2-only removes the 'or later' option 11:57:25 <Gekkko> they need a Group GPL 11:57:31 <Biff> for instance if i submit a kernel patch and it gets accepted, it is my copyrighted work, which i license under for example GPLv2 or later 11:57:36 <Gekkko> that if you contribute, the leader is in control of what you submit 11:57:41 <Gekkko> control to an extent 11:57:44 <Gekkko> not ownership rights 11:57:48 <Biff> Zr40: you can still extract the parts of the kernel which is GPLv2 or later 11:57:51 *** Chris82 [~chris@p579E1E52.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 11:57:56 <Biff> the original writer still has copyright 11:58:05 *** SmatZ [~root@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd 11:58:06 <Gekkko> Intellectual property 11:58:09 <Biff> and only he can accept a change in license 11:58:23 <Biff> this is unlike GNU software, where you give ownership to GNU 11:58:35 <Biff> so GNU software can change license whenever they want 11:58:38 <Zr40> Biff: as I said, the kernel license conflicts with the GPLv2+ parts 11:59:33 <Ailure> http://www.tt-forums.net//files/little_trunley_transport_25th_apr_1951_926.png 11:59:36 <Ailure> ok this amuses me somehow 11:59:47 <Zr40> Ailure: I've had something similar. 11:59:54 <Zr40> Ailure: do you happen to be using Mac OS X? 11:59:54 <hylje> what 12:01:02 <eekee> *giggle* 12:01:11 <Ailure> no 12:01:19 <Ailure> what make you think I do? 12:01:31 <Zr40> because it happened to me there :) 12:01:52 <Ailure> oh 12:01:55 <Ailure> the bug didn't happen to me 12:01:57 <Zr40> anyway, something went wrong with the standard grfs 12:02:05 <Ailure> I was just copying and pasting teh url from a thread 12:02:08 <Ailure> where that did happen to someone 12:02:11 <Ailure> american slopes :p 12:02:19 <Zr40> deleting and replacing them solved it 12:02:33 <Zr40> they're actually the language icons in the server browser 12:02:45 <Gekkko> oh that looks so cool 12:03:03 <Gekkko> wheres the lines to show the land plots 12:03:03 <Gekkko> >_> 12:03:19 <Ailure> yeah 12:03:21 <Ailure> but most of the time 12:03:30 <Ailure> people just go with the international icon when they create a server 12:04:01 <Ailure> heh 12:04:11 <Ailure> Most of the time, people use the UK flag to signify English 12:04:15 <Ailure> or UK/American flag 12:05:02 <Gekkko> make an Australian flag 12:05:04 <Gekkko> or ill slap you 12:05:05 <Gekkko> lol 12:05:50 <eekee> hehe] 12:06:26 <Gekkko> try doing that in 12x24 pixels 12:06:39 <Gekkko> well 12:06:43 <Gekkko> it's actually possible :o 12:06:50 <Gekkko> if i made it would it be implemented? 12:06:59 <Gekkko> or would they say "You're a minority!! GO AWAY" 12:10:10 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10235 /trunk/src/blitter/32bpp_anim.cpp: -Fix: the 32bpp-anim blitter repainted pixel color 0, which is transparency and therefor should never be repainted (spotted by Rubidium) 12:10:12 <eekee> Hey is there a small-screen branch of openttd? I seem to recall seeing a screenshot of it on a PDA 12:11:47 <Caemyr> lawl 12:11:52 <Caemyr> ottd on pda/mobile 12:12:04 <Caemyr> this is dangerous 12:12:12 <Rubidium> eekee: there isn't 12:12:17 <eekee> ok fair enough 12:12:32 <eekee> lawl Caemyr :) 12:12:35 <SmatZ> eekee: I saw that at some website, not at official ottd pages 12:12:38 <eekee> ya 12:12:41 <Caemyr> think about it 12:12:53 <eekee> think? what is this word? 12:13:05 <Gekkko> eekee: PalmTTD 12:13:08 <eekee> :D 12:13:08 <Caemyr> this may turn into disease 12:13:09 <Gekkko> www.esoftinteractive.com 12:13:11 <Gekkko> I have it 12:13:16 <eekee> ohhhh! 12:13:17 <Caemyr> to think 12:13:23 <eekee> yes.... 12:13:25 <Gekkko> PPC and Palm 12:13:57 <eekee> cool 'nuff 12:14:19 <Gekkko> GAH 12:14:24 <Gekkko> 0.5.2 for PPC 12:14:29 <Gekkko> 0.4.8 for Palm still 12:14:32 <Gekkko> basterd. 12:14:40 <eekee> How did I guess 0.4.8? 12:14:55 <Gekkko> it's a nighly too 12:15:26 <eekee> Anyhow, my Palm's an m515, last of the PalmOS4 ones & a 16MHz Dragon CPU 12:15:54 <Gekkko> lol 12:15:57 <Gekkko> doubt it would run 12:16:01 <Gekkko> requires 8mb of heap 12:16:07 <eekee> hehe 12:16:24 *** blathijs [~matthijs@katherina.student.utwente.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:16:38 <eekee> and.. my palm currently has 6.6MB of free space, hehe 12:17:21 <eekee> I think my non-essential expenditure this year is going to go on another Z or an iPaq 12:18:18 *** maddy [~maddy@88-136-244-96.adslgp.cegetel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:18:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> omg... what a load of crap in this backlog... 12:18:32 <eekee> yeah lol. sorry 12:19:18 <Gekkko> eekee: Do not buy a PDA 12:19:20 <Gekkko> google UMPC 12:19:25 <Gekkko> and google Folio 12:19:36 * eekee sighs, & does so 12:20:36 * eekee facepalms "NEW NEW NEW!!!" "COME SEE, BUY NOW! YOU LIKE, VERY MUCH!" 12:21:22 <hylje> umpc :\ 12:21:39 <Gekkko> lol 12:21:52 *** [BiG^BrotheR] [~Dr-DreaM@84.23.96.253] has joined #openttd 12:21:57 <Gekkko> I have no opinion on UMPC 12:22:03 <Gekkko> I prefer pico-itx 12:22:40 <eekee> dude, I got my Z scratched & stuff, I paid US0 for it iirc, and that was the going rate for one around it's condition! ;) I'm loon#king at the same price bracket again, or maybe a little higher, and I want something color that can run linux, so I'll be looking on ebay again 12:23:51 <eekee> I mean... I would go for one of those if I had the money, it's fun to get New Stuff, but.... heh 12:24:47 <Gekkko> eekee: I bought a Palm TX 12:24:51 <Gekkko> AU0 RRP 12:24:57 <Gekkko> 0 from ebay 12:25:03 <Gekkko> why? major indent in the screen. 12:25:06 <Gekkko> well 12:25:08 <Gekkko> not major 12:25:10 <Gekkko> you cantt seei 12:25:14 <Gekkko> but you can feel it 12:25:14 <eekee> hehehe 12:25:19 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A52A7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:25:20 <eekee> ic 12:26:15 *** maddy [~maddy@88-136-244-96.adslgp.cegetel.net] has joined #openttd 12:26:49 * eekee looks up clamshell Zs on ebay 12:28:50 <eekee> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BRAND-NEW-Sharp-Zaurus-SL-C3200-mini-laptop-with-case_W0QQitemZ320127149534QQihZ011QQcategoryZ38331QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem *want* hehe 12:29:45 <Gekkko> I want a laptop 12:29:58 <Gekkko> mccrap 12:31:26 *** DreaM[BrB] [~Dr-DreaM@84.23.96.253] has joined #openttd 12:31:37 <eekee> PDA's more my thing. keep it in pocket, not lug around in bag 12:33:09 <eekee> ... which is how I lost my last Z :D Keys did a nasty on the screen under slight pressure 12:37:52 *** [BiG^BrotheR] [~Dr-DreaM@84.23.96.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:41:19 <Gekkko> I hate that 12:41:23 <Gekkko> my gameboy broke like that 12:41:25 <Gekkko> nice black screen 12:41:40 <Gekkko> my farts are lethal tonight 12:42:15 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A52A7.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 12:43:38 <Caemyr> work! 12:43:43 <Caemyr> code ottd! 12:43:48 <SmatZ> Roger that! 12:43:52 <Caemyr> release new features! 12:44:00 <Caemyr> branch 0.6.0! 12:45:00 <Gekkko> it's ready? 12:45:11 <Caemyr> nope 12:45:19 <Caemyr> but almost done:) 12:48:18 <Gekkko> lol yay 12:48:19 <Rubidium> ooh, nice... Caemyr do you know when it's done? 12:48:29 <Gekkko> I don't think I'll want 0.7 with OpenTTD's own gfx 12:48:35 <Gekkko> I <3 TTDX 12:48:38 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 12:48:41 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:48:45 <Gekkko> make it an optional patch and I'm sold 12:48:58 <Gekkko> I had an idea how traffic could be implemented 12:49:17 <Rubidium> Gekkko: whole idea about own "gfx" is that OpenTTD come default working out-of-the-box, but that you can just use the old GRFs *if* you've got them 12:49:26 <Gekkko> ah right 12:49:28 <Gekkko> excellent 12:49:36 <Gekkko> would that work multiplayer too? 12:49:59 <Rubidium> as long as only the graphics change it would work perfectly in MP 12:50:08 *** Tino|R152 [Tino@52N.UNI-MUENSTER.DE] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 12:50:36 <Gekkko> oh cool 12:50:43 <Gekkko> would the gfx be cheap and nasty? 12:50:44 <Gekkko> lol 12:50:59 <Maedhros> why would we want to distribute bad graphics? 12:51:13 <Rubidium> and who ever said that 0.7 will have it's own gfx? 12:51:21 <Caemyr> http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Roadmap_0.6 12:51:27 <Caemyr> wiki doesnt lie 12:51:41 <Caemyr> :) 12:53:05 <Rubidium> Caemyr: probably meant 0.7, anyway... the person who wrote that was just a random user who wanted that to be in 0.7 12:53:19 <Rubidium> and basically nobody has cared since to "fix" the 0.7 roadmap 12:53:28 <Caemyr> lawl 12:53:59 <Caemyr> you just shattered all my hopes 12:54:04 *** maddy [~maddy@88-136-244-96.adslgp.cegetel.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 12:54:55 <peter1138> pom te pom 12:58:04 *** maddy [~maddy@88-136-244-96.adslgp.cegetel.net] has joined #openttd 13:01:25 *** maddy [~maddy@88-136-244-96.adslgp.cegetel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:02:09 * mikegrb adds control of real trains to the roadmap for 0.7 13:02:26 <mikegrb> and not piddly model trains either 13:02:58 <eekee> lol 13:06:30 *** maddy [~maddy@88-136-244-96.adslgp.cegetel.net] has joined #openttd 13:10:39 *** [BiG^BrotheR] [~Dr-DreaM@84.23.96.253] has joined #openttd 13:12:21 <Noldo> graphics are useless, let the users steal their own 13:13:52 <Gekkko> HA 13:13:54 <Gekkko> go Noldo 13:13:59 * Gekkko puts hand up for high fiveness 13:15:20 *** root [~root@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd 13:16:19 <root> lol 13:16:29 <root> i should change my client 13:16:31 *** root [~root@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [] 13:17:02 *** DreaM[BrB] [~Dr-DreaM@84.23.96.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:17:25 *** SmatZ_ [~root@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd 13:17:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> do not chat as root... 13:17:45 <SmatZ_> yes... 13:17:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, you do 13:17:54 <SmatZ_> it was some default nickname 13:18:22 *** SmatZ [~root@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:18:34 <Zr40> nicknames default to the username 13:18:40 <SmatZ_> yes :) 13:19:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> as does the ident, which is still "root" 13:19:35 <Gekkko> I'm logged in as root 13:19:39 <SmatZ_> ok I am running at root account, you are right 13:19:39 <Gekkko> always. 13:20:04 <Zr40> SmatZ_: please create a user for yourself and log in as that, not as root 13:20:13 <Zr40> running KDE as root (or GNOME or anything) is dangerous 13:20:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> now... where did i put my IRC exploit list 13:20:19 <SmatZ_> :) 13:20:24 *** SmatZ_ [~root@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:21:30 <Gekkko> Zr40: what bout IceWM 13:21:39 <Zr40> Gekkko: 'or anything' :) 13:21:52 <Gekkko> what about IceWM 13:22:11 <Zr40> ...that falls under 'anything' 13:23:11 <Zr40> the only time you should be logged in as root is on the terminal, using su 13:23:26 <Zr40> or even sudo 13:23:29 *** DreaM[BrB] [~Dr-DreaM@84.23.96.253] has joined #openttd 13:24:49 *** blathijs [~matthijs@katherina.student.utwente.nl] has joined #openttd 13:26:11 <Gekkko> must sleep 13:26:15 <Gekkko> ttyl 13:26:15 *** Gekkko [~Brendan@CPE-58-168-99-207.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/] 13:30:42 *** [BiG^BrotheR] [~Dr-DreaM@84.23.96.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:31:59 *** UnderBuilder [~chatzilla@168.226.105.67] has joined #openttd 13:32:20 <UnderBuilder> jasper vs sergey... round 1... FIGHT 13:32:26 <UnderBuilder> who wins? 13:32:45 <Belugas> teaser... 13:32:46 <Belugas> http://devs.openttd.org/~belugas/Industries/ECS_Agri_4.png 13:33:26 <Zr40> you're teasing about a feature, not graphics, right? :) 13:33:35 <Noldo> :D 13:33:43 <UnderBuilder> I feel like a jasper but addicted to newindustries :( 13:33:51 <peter1138> UnderBuilder: where? 13:33:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... those buildings really do not fit into TTD... 13:34:02 <UnderBuilder> or multiplayer in TTDP 13:34:20 <Belugas> feature in progress, yes :) 13:34:25 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause2: i bet pikka's do :) 13:34:35 <Zr40> UnderBuilder: bleh, TTDP 13:35:05 <UnderBuilder> the jasper vs sergey fight is my idea :P 13:35:39 <peter1138> hmm. why? 13:35:57 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1FF6E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:36:00 <UnderBuilder> crazy things of the life... 13:36:04 <Belugas> Pikka looks great indeed : http://devs.openttd.org/~belugas/Industries/nice_forest.png 13:36:17 <Belugas> http://devs.openttd.org/~belugas/Industries/yellow_yard.png 13:36:28 <UnderBuilder> also I have a idea for a save game: jasper land 13:36:41 <peter1138> who cares about jasper 13:37:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> who the f... is jasper? 13:37:03 <UnderBuilder> ALL the map filled with highways, traffic lights and vehicles lol 13:37:04 <Belugas> http://devs.openttd.org/~belugas/Industries/finally_engineer_Yard.png 13:37:16 <Belugas> Pikka has THE style :D 13:37:18 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause2: highway-troll 13:37:39 <peter1138> Belugas: mostly because it's nicked from the original graphics ;) 13:37:58 <Belugas> yeah, pretty much :) 13:38:18 <UnderBuilder> I love that 4x(2x2) forest 13:38:25 <Belugas> his quarry is really nice, though 13:38:53 <Belugas> http://devs.openttd.org/~belugas/Industries/SandQuarry(ECS).png 13:39:05 <Belugas> definitively not the same style ;) 13:40:10 <peter1138> heh 13:40:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> such style-breaks can only be good if the complete graphics are replaced with that style 13:40:19 <peter1138> 32bpp?? 13:40:20 <UnderBuilder> LOL @ quarry 13:40:31 <peter1138> or just smart palette use? 13:41:17 <UnderBuilder> also my pc has some troubles with sounds 13:41:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't believe that is done with 255 colours 13:41:55 <UnderBuilder> it detects the input dispositive but not the output one 13:41:57 <Belugas> palette usage indeed 13:42:02 <Belugas> no 32bpp 13:42:11 <Belugas> that was the ESCBasic sand quarry 13:42:14 <Belugas> http://devs.openttd.org/~belugas/Industries/forest_of_mines.png 13:42:18 <Belugas> and that was a mistake :) 13:42:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> :p 13:42:57 <peter1138> hehe 13:43:09 <UnderBuilder> LOOOOOL 13:43:23 <UnderBuilder> (sorry that is funny :P) 13:43:25 <hylje> :o 13:43:33 <hylje> minefield 13:43:57 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:44:10 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-166-77.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:44:24 <Belugas> it was intended to be funny, UnderBuilder :) Although it took me two evening to figure out the errors... 13:45:01 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-159-029.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:45:08 <Belugas> just two? no...much more... 13:45:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> that sounded awfully schitzophrenic :) 13:46:02 <Belugas> yeah, i'm a nut :D 13:46:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> one? dozens! 13:47:27 *** MiHaMiX [~miham@xenon.bibl.u-szeged.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:47:29 <peter1138> one, two, many, lots 13:48:14 <hylje> one two three four five lotz 13:48:23 <hylje> orks count surprisingly well 13:48:24 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-123-003.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 13:49:01 <eekee> hehe 13:49:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> 1394 orcs! 13:50:23 <eekee> RUN! 13:50:30 <hylje> oh noes 13:50:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> actually it was 3872 orcs... 13:53:48 <eekee> HIDE!!! 13:53:57 <hylje> nuke them from orbit 13:54:57 <eekee> But my pixie spaceship's all broken & stuff! 13:55:19 <hylje> use yer dust 13:56:59 <Caemyr> wow 13:57:04 <eekee> what? :D 13:57:04 <Caemyr> the quarry looks great 13:57:12 <eekee> o ^^ 13:57:22 <Caemyr> even if it`s not the right style 13:57:25 * eekee flies around over the orcs scattering pixie dust 13:57:29 <Caemyr> the photorealistic one 13:57:38 <Caemyr> its so damned good 13:59:15 <eekee> ah, what quarry? 13:59:26 <hylje> the pixie dust quarry 13:59:49 <eekee> *snicker* ^^; 14:00:14 <hylje> heh with newind we could have fantasy ttd 14:00:23 <eekee> yeah hehe 14:00:34 <hylje> dwarven trains \o/ 14:00:45 <eekee> hehe 14:01:10 <eekee> dwarven mines are obvious... oh hey, balrog disaster 14:01:20 <hylje> then elves got elegant and fragile trains 14:01:26 <hylje> which carry just pax and stuff 14:01:34 <eekee> yeah ^^' 14:01:51 <hylje> the little peoples make RVs 14:01:57 <hylje> dragons are flyers 14:02:06 <eekee> hehe 14:02:13 <Caemyr> lawl 14:02:44 <eekee> that's a point, are there any, like, serious disasters in TTD? The worst seem to be the ufos, & they're not much 14:02:51 <hylje> no 14:03:00 <hylje> ravaging demons appear rather fine 14:03:00 <eekee> or rather, would they be worth coding 14:03:05 <eekee> ^^' 14:03:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> btw: if someone did not get my reference: http://www.flickr.com/photos/wilwheaton/118835790/in/set-72057594091962455/ 14:04:50 <eekee> Oh heh ^^ 14:05:10 <hylje> munchkin 14:06:39 *** maddy [~maddy@88-136-244-96.adslgp.cegetel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:07:32 <eekee> +1 to run away... 14:13:14 *** [BiG^BrotheR] [~Dr-DreaM@84.23.96.253] has joined #openttd 14:18:58 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A7BA7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:19:37 *** DreaM[BrB] [~Dr-DreaM@84.23.96.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:21:14 <skidd13> In the wiki is something written about an opengl blitter... is it in trunk? 14:21:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, it's only in peter1138 secret write only patch repository 14:22:15 <skidd13> :( 14:23:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm pretty sure peter1138s patches used to be available online 14:24:31 <peter1138> :o 14:28:03 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 14:31:11 <Sug> I opened up a save in the scenario editor and whilst there i deleted a road crossing a rail, now the town owns the rail. 14:34:09 <Belugas> [10:20] <Eddi|zuHause2> no, it's only in peter1138 secret write only patch repository <-- Bermudas Triangle ! Everyting goes in, very few goes out ;) 14:36:51 <Digitalfox> I actually readed Belugas Triangle lol 14:37:08 <peter1138> :D 14:37:29 *** maddy [~maddy@88-136-244-96.adslgp.cegetel.net] has joined #openttd 14:38:22 <Sug> hmm, and I cant remove it at all 14:38:42 <glx> scenario editor is not intended to edit savegames 14:38:57 <Sug> well yea, but its possible 14:39:16 <glx> it 'removes' all player owned stuff 14:39:23 <Sug> no it doesnt 14:39:29 <Belugas> Digitalfox, not a good example of well written stuff :) 14:40:22 <Digitalfox> Belugas: :) 14:49:01 <dihedral> Sug: magic buldozer :-) 14:49:19 <Sug> doesnt work, like the canals thing 14:49:27 <Sug> just gone back to an older save 14:53:26 *** DreaM[BrB] [~Dr-DreaM@84.23.96.253] has joined #openttd 14:57:08 *** Zr40 [~Zr40@zr40.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:59:32 *** [BiG^BrotheR] [~Dr-DreaM@84.23.96.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:01:41 *** maddy [~maddy@88-136-244-96.adslgp.cegetel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:03:54 *** Zr40 [~Zr40@zr40.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 15:20:51 *** [BiG^BrotheR] [~Dr-DreaM@84.23.96.253] has joined #openttd 15:27:27 *** DreaM[BrB] [~Dr-DreaM@84.23.96.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:45:28 *** HMage [hmage@89-178-34-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:46:36 *** alanin is now known as Alanin 15:46:52 *** boekabart [~bdb@e215192.upc-e.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 15:56:13 *** Mucht_ [~Mucht@p57A0DA35.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:56:31 *** Peakki [antti@cs181000195.pp.htv.fi] has joined #openttd 16:00:22 *** Mucht [~Mucht@p57A0F6C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:02:10 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Tschüß] 16:03:37 *** DreaM[BrB] [~Dr-DreaM@84.23.96.253] has joined #openttd 16:05:41 <UnderBuilder> *bump* predict what revision will be implemented newindustries 16:06:23 <UnderBuilder> for me it will be r12345 :D 16:06:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> it gets backdated to r10000 ;p 16:06:34 <Maedhros> r65535 16:07:00 <UnderBuilder> r32767 will be highways XD 16:07:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> is svn gonna crash afterwards? :p 16:07:46 <skidd13> shht, dont talk about highways, ... jasper could hear it. 16:08:19 <UnderBuilder> he can be one of ours! 16:08:29 * UnderBuilder points at Belugas 16:09:57 *** [BiG^BrotheR] [~Dr-DreaM@84.23.96.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:10:39 <Belugas> no predictions for newindustries. I can't even guess its completion myself :) 16:14:02 <UnderBuilder> it's only a game, calm down :) 16:14:28 <Belugas> i'm not upset, believe me :) 16:14:49 <Belugas> i would like to give a good estimate, but i'm really clueless 16:15:11 <Belugas> mmhh... 16:15:20 <UnderBuilder> I know that a prediction can be very very out of precision 16:15:34 <Belugas> "<I can't do any > predictions for newindustries." 16:15:38 <Belugas> there :) 16:15:57 *** UnderBuilder [~chatzilla@168.226.105.67] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.1/2006120418]] 16:16:07 <Belugas> it is, UnderBuilder. And i really would not want to give false hope 16:16:17 <Belugas> gone :( 16:16:51 <Caemyr> we can always bet on it:P 16:18:03 <skidd13> like what is r10000 ;) 16:28:33 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host124-234-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 16:28:45 <Wolf01> hello 16:31:31 <Wolf01> now MB is spamming like jasperthecat http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=599304#599304 16:32:12 * dihedral is wondering if TrueBrain is around at all 16:34:32 <dihedral> does not look like it! :-( 16:37:25 <peter1138> Wolf01: heh, the 'tunnels' look nice there 16:37:34 <peter1138> the big round station build is way too large though 16:37:59 <skidd13> Hope theres inoculation against jasper-ague. ;) 16:39:08 <Wolf01> i thought about redesign some tunnels and stations for the tube project, to look like subterranean stations (to see under you must enable the transparency) 16:41:48 <Wolf01> but i don't know if i can draw over adjacent tiles, i mean drawing in width, i know is possible in height because there are skyscrapers 16:42:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> why would you need that? 16:43:38 <Wolf01> to link the roof of the station with the roof of the tunnel, over the tile with signals, if there is only one tile 16:45:40 <Wolf01> but i believe more in eyecandy objects and new map array, to be able to put trees along the railways and walls/roofs/fences 16:45:49 <skidd13> Lepkka did something like this with the water. http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=32415&highlight=leveled+water 16:46:08 <Wolf01> yes i know 16:47:08 <Wolf01> but i think my idea was older than it, i started to think about it when the tube project was started, but only now i started to draw something :P 16:47:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> Wolf01: i'd rather approach it like a new "tube" railtype that has something drawn on top of it (similar to how catenary is drawn) 16:48:18 <peter1138> heh 16:49:15 *** lolman [~lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 16:50:00 *** oxygene_ [~oxygene@p50807EB5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:50:09 *** thgergo [~th_gergo@dsl51B78919.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 16:59:06 *** Nickman is now known as Nickman^Away 17:04:02 *** nairan [~Maui_key@p5498DEFD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:05:12 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-89-217-30-51.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:06:22 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50c79adc.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 17:06:22 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 17:06:43 <Bjarni> !seen sacro 17:06:44 <_42_> Bjarni, Sacro (Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM) was last seen quitting #openttd 14 hours 38 minutes ago (20.06. 02:28) stating "Quit: Leaving" after spending 1 hour 57 minutes there. 17:12:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> you're here for 10 seconds and already miss him :p 17:13:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> (yes, i know you got a message that he searched for you) 17:13:18 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 17:13:23 *** HMage [hmage@89-178-36-223.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 17:13:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> now see what you did :p 17:14:02 <Sacro|Laptop> me? i did nothing 17:14:30 * Bjarni slaps Sacro|Laptop 17:14:39 * Sacro|Laptop fines Bjarni £100 17:14:40 <Bjarni> you will do something 17:14:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, i meant him, not you :p 17:14:52 <Bjarni> so I better harass you.... just in case 17:15:12 * Bjarni spotted Halle on a map today 17:15:22 <Bjarni> I knew where it was, but I found an old map 17:15:34 <Bjarni> a road map that's like 30-40 years old 17:16:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have maps of this area that are like 500 years old :) 17:17:42 <Bjarni> I know what the roadmaps of the Halle area from 5000 BC looks like :p 17:19:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah... like... empty :p 17:20:15 <Smoovious> and no left-turn lanes or signals 17:20:20 *** HMage [hmage@89-178-36-223.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:21:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Himmelsscheibe_von_Nebra <- this was found not very far away from here... it is supposed to be from around 2000 B.C. 17:22:08 <XeryusTC> lol, the 3rd looks like a smiley :) 17:23:39 *** HMage [hmage@89-178-37-0.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 17:27:32 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-89-217-30-51.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 17:32:21 <colle> uhh, a police officer was just killed 400 m from my house :( 17:32:35 <colle> shot 17:32:46 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:33:11 <oxygene_> where are you living, colle? 17:33:16 <colle> sweden 17:33:24 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 17:33:28 <oxygene_> i've expected new jersey or so 17:33:34 <colle> yeah 17:33:47 <colle> something like that is not supposed to happen here 17:34:11 <colle> one more is badly injured 17:34:13 *** tokai|ni [~tokai@p54B8179C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:34:44 *** Nickman^Away is now known as Nickman 17:35:40 *** tokai|ni [~tokai@p54B83630.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:39:28 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 17:45:22 <Sacro> svn log $_svntrunk --limit 1 | grep -m 1 -o "r.*" | cut -d \| -f 1 | sed s@r@@g 17:45:32 <Sacro> is that the simpleist way of getting the revision number? 17:46:03 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest2343 17:46:03 *** Wolfolo|AWAY [~wolf01@host124-234-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:46:03 *** Wolfolo|AWAY is now known as Wolf01 17:46:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> svn info? 17:46:17 *** [BiG^BrotheR] [~Dr-DreaM@84.23.96.253] has joined #openttd 17:47:42 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@dD5E03DCF.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:48:27 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: i dunno, i'm doing an openttd-svn PKGBUILD for ArchLinux 17:48:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> Sacro: isn't there stuff to get the revision number in the makefile? 17:49:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> why not reuse that? 17:49:27 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: i don't know 17:49:30 <Sacro> hence why i am asking 17:49:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> that was a rhethorical question :) 17:50:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> the makefile gets the revision number and branch name, and puts that into rev.c(pp) 17:50:36 <Sacro> hmmmm 17:50:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> i remember something about awk magic 17:51:19 <Sacro> svnversion $(SRC_DIR) | sed -n 's/.*\(M\).*//p' 17:51:36 <Sacro> oh bloody hell 17:51:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> that's the modified flag 17:51:46 <Sacro> svn info $(SRC_DIR) | $(AWK) '/^URL:.*branches/ { split($, a, "/"); BRANCH="-"a[5] } /^Last Changed Rev:/ { REV="r"$"$(REV_MODIFIED)" } END { print REV BRANCH }' 17:51:55 *** HMage [hmage@89-178-37-0.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:52:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, that bit looks good 17:52:37 *** Guest2343 [~wolf01@host124-234-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:52:47 *** DreaM[BrB] [~Dr-DreaM@84.23.96.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:52:53 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-83-100-225-171.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 17:53:00 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A7BA7.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 17:53:04 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-83-100-225-171.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [] 17:53:30 <Sacro> hmm, that doesn't work 17:54:01 <Sacro> i think i'll stick to the other one 17:57:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, it probably requires LC_ALL=C and stuff... 17:58:54 <Sacro> hmmm 17:58:55 <TrueBrain> Yo Yo Yo! 17:58:56 <TrueBrain> :p 17:59:01 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: yes... 17:59:14 <Sacro> my LC_ALL isn't set 17:59:35 <Sacro> now... is there a way to get the latest nightly revision, without downloading svn 18:00:11 *** lolman [~lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:00:17 <TrueBrain> what are the odds: http://nightly.openttd.org/latest/.rev 18:00:20 *** lolman [~lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 18:00:23 <TrueBrain> just pated it in an other channel :p 18:00:34 <TrueBrain> (so: wget http://nightly.openttd.org/latest/.rev -q -O /dev/stdout | head -n 1 18:00:41 <Sacro> TrueBrain: thats quite awesome 18:00:46 <Sacro> though... hmmm 18:00:54 <Sacro> i don't know if i can do that in the top of a PKGBUILD 18:00:57 <Sacro> i could backtick it 18:01:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> $(command) 18:01:13 <TrueBrain> else: svn info svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk 18:01:16 <TrueBrain> oh, without svn 18:01:19 <TrueBrain> nah, forget it :) 18:02:29 <Sacro> well until it hits the makedepends() bit, theres no guarantee that svn is available 18:03:01 <TrueBrain> then this is your only way in I guess :) 18:03:19 <Sacro> oooh 18:03:22 <Sacro> i have versionpkg 18:03:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> is there a guarantee that wget is available? 18:03:31 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: its part of the default base install 18:03:53 *** HMage [hmage@89-178-35-34.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 18:05:12 <Sacro> hmm, i guess i can use versionpkg rather than makepkg 18:07:02 <Sacro> i'm sure its svn://svn.openttd.org 18:08:42 <Sacro> do i need ./autogen.sh? 18:08:44 <Sacro> i think not... 18:09:08 <Maedhros> considering there isn't one, no :p 18:09:56 <stillunknown> The "simple" task of splitting train controller into several smaller functions is not so simple ;-( 18:10:38 <Sacro> hehe 18:10:41 <dihedral> hello TrueBrain 18:10:48 <Sacro> how do i make it use /usr/share/openttd-svn/* ? 18:11:54 <Maedhros> ./configure --prefix-dir=/usr --data-dir=share/openttd-svn etc. 18:12:48 <Sacro> cool 18:12:55 <Sacro> is there a way to quickly rename the binary? 18:13:23 *** Alanin is now known as alanin 18:15:34 <Caemyr> click on in, two times 18:15:42 <Caemyr> and type the new name:P 18:16:50 <Maedhros> mv? i don't think you can do it with configure 18:18:00 <stillunknown> Caemyr: You're making assumptions, which you shouldn't. 18:18:21 <Caemyr> at least that`s quick:) 18:18:26 <Caemyr> ok just joking 18:18:27 <Caemyr> bbl 18:18:51 *** alanin is now known as Alanin 18:19:56 <Sacro> stillunknown: yes, gonna have to be mv 18:21:22 <valhallasw> what is squirrel? 18:21:31 <valhallasw> (the repos directory, of course) 18:21:50 <Belugas> a little mammal linving in the trees :) 18:22:05 <Belugas> it has to do with NoAI, a script language, IIRC 18:22:08 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@dD5E03DCF.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 18:22:09 <valhallasw> ah 18:22:25 *** lolman [~lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:22:44 <Ailure> :D 18:22:48 *** Wolfolo|AWAY [~wolf01@host124-234-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:22:48 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest2346 18:22:48 *** Wolfolo|AWAY is now known as Wolf01 18:22:51 <hylje> :o 18:23:13 <Ailure> mew 18:23:26 <hylje> omg, furries 18:24:14 <Ailure> YES 18:24:15 <Ailure> :D 18:24:24 <Sacro> Unknown option --prefix=/usr 18:24:27 <Sacro> what a silly configure script 18:24:37 <Ailure> haha 18:24:52 <Ailure> reminds me that I saw a discussion about openTTD in a random furry community I happened to stumble upon the other day 18:25:06 <Ailure> made me wonder how popular openttd actually is 18:25:10 <hylje> :o 18:25:11 <Sacro> so... who deals with the configure script? 18:25:16 <hylje> among furries? nooooo 18:25:22 <Sacro> ahhh 18:25:25 <Sacro> prefix-dir 18:25:30 <Sacro> thats no standard 18:25:52 <Ailure> especially since it wasn't much other talk abotu games 18:26:56 <Sacro> does make install work yet? 18:27:51 <Ailure> Maybe I make some furry newGRF one of thoose days :V 18:27:57 <hylje> oh god 18:27:57 <hylje> no 18:28:00 <hylje> D: 18:28:11 <Ailure> :D 18:28:34 <peter1138> furries :( 18:29:04 <Ailure> We're on the internet, get over it 18:29:06 <Ailure> ;) 18:29:13 <hylje> and everyone hates you 18:29:14 <hylje> :< 18:29:21 *** Guest2346 [~wolf01@host124-234-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:29:22 <Ailure> :( 18:29:27 *** Zr40_ [~Zr40@zr40.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:29:33 <hylje> there was a graph 18:29:39 <hylje> of internet subcultures' relations 18:29:47 *** Wolfolo|AWAY [~wolf01@host245-229-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:29:47 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest2347 18:29:47 *** Wolfolo|AWAY is now known as Wolf01 18:29:50 <hylje> just about everyone thought they were better than furries 18:29:58 <peter1138> because they are 18:29:58 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:30:07 <hylje> quite probably indeed 18:30:12 <Belugas> "Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving with a Pict" (Waters) 4:59 18:30:16 <Ailure> that graph kinda dind't work to me though 18:30:18 <Belugas> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ummagumma 18:30:22 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 18:30:28 <Ailure> becuse I felt more like a computer geek than a furry on it 18:30:29 <hylje> heh progressive rock 18:30:38 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host245-229-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [] 18:30:43 <Sacro> grr 18:30:47 <Belugas> furry! 18:30:54 <Belugas> furries!! 18:31:53 <Sacro> so... how does the new makefile work? 18:33:01 <Ailure> You put it into the microwave for eight minutes 18:33:14 <hylje> yiff moar 18:33:21 *** KritiK [Maxim@ppp85-141-225-194.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #openttd 18:33:21 <hylje> :p 18:33:26 <peter1138> :o 18:33:33 <Bjarni> <Sacro> so... how does the new makefile work? <-- you get the new makefile and type make 18:33:43 <Ailure> hush before I make yiff.grf 18:33:44 <Sacro> Bjarni: yes, i've got it doing make now 18:33:45 <Bjarni> you get the makefile by running configure 18:33:53 <hylje> fine 18:33:56 <Sacro> and it generates it from Makefile.ln 18:34:04 <Sacro> possibly using m4 18:34:13 <peter1138> 'yiff' : furries pretending that promiscuous gay underage sex is fluffy love 18:34:36 <Sacro> peter1138: you are most knowledgeable 18:34:38 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host245-229-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:34:55 <Ailure> apparently 18:34:56 <Belugas> he made that up, i'm sure:D 18:35:04 <Ailure> it was some fox greeting phrase at some MUCK 18:35:06 <Ailure> that some guy made up 18:35:15 <Ailure> then it transformed into the infamous internet phrase as we know today 18:35:22 <peter1138> Sacro: of course, i learnt it all from you 18:35:29 <Sacro> :o 18:35:31 <Sacro> i told you nothing 18:35:33 <Bjarni> >_< 18:35:36 *** Guest2347 [~wolf01@host124-234-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:35:58 <Bjarni> if peter1138 learned all he knows from Sacro, then peter1138's knowledge is NULL 18:36:00 <Sacro> openttd: /home/ben/Desktop/openttd-svn/src/trunk/src/openttd.cpp:107: void error(const char*, ...): Assertion `0' failed. 18:36:09 <Bjarni> somehow that's not right 18:36:12 *** Zr40 [~Zr40@zr40.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:36:34 <Bjarni> Sacro: that is for assigning NULL to peter1138 :P 18:36:34 <peter1138> Sacro: and the line *above* that? 18:36:53 <Sacro> hehe 18:36:55 <Sacro> cannot open "sample.cat" 18:37:00 <Bjarni> ... 18:37:04 <Ailure> Better not ask peter abotu stuff then 18:37:06 <Bjarni> BONEHEAD 18:37:08 <Ailure> or we get ugly bugs 18:37:10 <peter1138> right with -d misc=4 18:37:15 <Bjarni> you should know how to add sample.cat 18:37:20 <peter1138> *run 18:37:22 <Sacro> is there a make install now? 18:37:44 <stillunknown> Strange, debug level 3 should display symbols properly in gdb? 18:38:01 <peter1138> stillunknown, yes 18:38:08 <Sacro> IS THERE A MAKE INSTALL? 18:38:46 <peter1138> TRY IT 18:38:52 <Ailure> hmm 18:39:05 <Sacro> yes there is 18:39:08 <stillunknown> peter1138: So a bunch of ???? indicates crashing in an external library? 18:39:09 <Sacro> but no INSTALL_PREFIX 18:39:13 <Sacro> please can i request one 18:39:33 <peter1138> stillunknown: might be something fun like everything overflowing 18:39:44 <Sacro> otherwise i have to do it manually using install -m644 18:39:47 <hylje> metaprogramming! 18:39:55 <peter1138> Sacro... 18:40:00 <peter1138> ./configure --help 18:40:05 <peter1138> Paths: 18:40:05 <peter1138> --prefix-dir=dir specifies the prefix for all installed 18:40:05 <peter1138> files [/usr/local] 18:40:06 <peter1138> ETC ETC 18:40:18 <TrueBrain> RTFM 18:40:19 <TrueBrain> indeed 18:40:24 <Sacro> prefix-dir doesn't do what i need 18:40:28 <hylje> whut 18:40:40 <Sacro> hmmm, install-dir might 18:40:53 <TrueBrain> oh joy, he finally found the --help... 18:41:40 <peter1138> what did i have left to do for opengl? 18:41:58 <TrueBrain> peter1138: I was hoping nothing... ;) Yeah, one function: SetPixelIfEmpty ;0 18:42:49 <Sacro> :o 18:42:53 <Sacro> make install actually works 18:43:00 <TrueBrain> oh no, we did something write! 18:43:24 <ln-> http://www.hauntedfrog.com/gt/movies/2007/duckon/SingingTeslaShow.html 18:43:40 <peter1138> oh yes 18:43:47 <hylje> oh noes 18:44:06 <Sacro> except its using /usr/game rather than /usr/bin 18:44:08 <Sacro> how silly 18:44:26 <TrueBrain> hmm.. write? I should get some sleep... 18:45:29 <peter1138> ln-, mad 18:47:34 <Bjarni> ln-: wow... who made this? 18:47:38 <Sacro> pretty soon, everyone with ArchLinux can play nightlies without needing to do much! 18:47:52 <ln-> Bjarni: no idea 18:48:29 <Bjarni> ok 18:48:50 <Bjarni> however I know some people, who would have done this if they had access to hardware like that 18:49:17 <Sacro> wow, it plays mario 18:49:18 <Sacro> i want one 18:50:10 <Caemyr> ln-: nice:) 18:51:25 <Bjarni> <Sacro> wow, it plays mario <-- also the tetris thingie 18:51:36 <Bjarni> it's in no way random what it plays 18:51:37 <Sacro> Bjarni: indeed 18:52:01 <Sacro> right... does my package install nciely 18:52:51 <Sacro> yay, i created a working svn PKGBUILD 18:53:26 <Sacro> i am so smart, i am so smart 18:53:30 <Sacro> S M R T 18:53:33 <Sacro> i mean S M A R T 18:53:44 <hylje> what 18:54:07 <Ailure> bah 18:54:37 <Ailure> Self-Monitoring, Analysis, and Reporting Technology? 18:54:52 <Ailure> Really fun when it's warns for immiedate HD crash 18:55:46 *** lolman [~lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 18:56:58 *** Zr40_ [~Zr40@zr40.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:58:04 <Sacro> !nightly 18:58:08 <Sacro> !nightlies 18:58:10 <Sacro> @nightly 18:58:13 <Sacro> grrr :( 18:58:13 <Ailure> ah yeah 18:58:15 <Ailure> it was just compiled 18:58:21 <Sacro> was it? 18:58:31 <Ailure> 20:00 every days 18:58:31 <Sacro> is it 19:00 UTC? 18:58:37 <Ailure> the compile farm starts spinning 18:58:42 <Ailure> or 19:00 UTC yeah 18:59:03 <Ailure> r10234 truelight 2007-06-20 12:30:25 +0200 (Wed, 20 Jun 2007) 2 lines 18:59:03 <Ailure> -Fix r10233: make peter1138 happy 18:59:36 <Ailure> This is getting creepy. peter1138 is actually some bot ran in openTTD? 18:59:39 <Ailure> :V 18:59:52 <hylje> ggggggggggggggggggggggggggg 18:59:54 <hylje> no 19:05:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> > make peter1138 happy 19:05:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> make: *** [peter1138] Error 1 19:05:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> does not work... 19:06:57 <dihedral> lol 19:07:29 <Sacro> Ailure: don't confuse me with fake commits 19:07:49 <peter1138> @openttd commit 10234 19:07:50 <DorpsGek> peter1138: Commit by truelight :: r10234 trunk/src/blitter/8bpp_optimized.cpp (2007-06-20 10:30:25 UTC) 19:07:51 <DorpsGek> peter1138: -Fix r10233: make peter1138 happy 19:07:56 <peter1138> :o 19:08:06 <Sacro> wtf? 19:08:23 <dihedral> lol 19:08:31 <dihedral> lets wais revisions shall we? 19:08:36 <peter1138> hmm 19:08:44 <peter1138> antialiased lines don't work too well :-( 19:10:34 *** e1ko [~L@205.117.broadband9.iol.cz] has joined #openttd 19:11:13 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest2349 19:11:14 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host226-59-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 19:12:10 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/o/opengl13.png 19:12:46 <hylje> AA! 19:12:47 <Belugas> kinda blurry, isn't it? 19:14:08 <Bjarni> <Sacro> i am so smart, i am so smart <-- smart enough to realise that it should be uppercase I? 19:14:22 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest2350 19:14:22 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host77-236-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 19:15:02 *** Guest2349 [~wolf01@host245-229-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:17:12 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest2351 19:17:13 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host48-232-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 19:17:13 *** Guest2351 [~wolf01@host77-236-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:17:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r10236 /trunk/ (21 files in 4 dirs): -Feature: Introduce a form of timetabling for vehicles. 19:17:56 <hylje> omg 19:18:05 <nairan> ? 19:18:12 <hylje> clockwork ottd! 19:18:17 <Maedhros> :) 19:18:49 <Maedhros> hmm, i'm going to have to write some documentation now, aren't i? ;) 19:18:57 <hylje> yes 19:19:37 <Caemyr> please do:) 19:19:47 *** Guest2350 [~wolf01@host226-59-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:20:03 * Wolf01 download and compiles, now 19:20:14 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:20:47 <lolman> I was in the middle of compiling when that update went up...damnit >_< 19:21:11 <Bjarni> lol 19:21:12 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 19:21:28 <Caemyr> hah 19:21:34 <Bjarni> I sent " http://qdb.us/93669 " in PM to Sacro and then he timed out... I guess he didn't like it xD 19:22:02 <Sacro> :o 19:22:03 <Caemyr> lawl 19:22:05 <Caemyr> why?:) 19:22:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> /home/johannes/spiele/OpenTTD/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp:17:23: error: timetable.h: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden 19:22:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> ?? 19:23:03 <Sacro> Bjarni: it's a simpsons quote 19:23:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> (saying "file not found") 19:23:33 <Bjarni> I have no satelite/cable channels aka I can't watch Simpsons 19:23:43 <Sacro> i think someone broke trunk 19:23:51 <Bjarni> so I shouldn't be blamed for not knowing everything about Simpsons 19:23:52 <Maedhros> ah, bugger it 19:23:58 <Maedhros> i forgot to svn add them... 19:24:07 <Bjarni> :P 19:24:17 <hylje> bugger 19:24:21 <Sacro> Maedhros: i'm sat here debugging an autobuild script 19:24:37 <Sacro> Maedhros: timetable.h :p 19:24:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> Bjarni: you do have internet, and you can buy DVDs :) 19:25:02 <Sacro> HD-PORN :D 19:25:04 <Bjarni> why should I pay for it? 19:25:46 <stillunknown> Would there be interest in the seperation of the TrainController function, into more manageable blocks? 19:25:48 <dihedral> HD-PORN or Simpsons? 19:25:53 <Caemyr> both 19:25:55 <Bjarni> <Sacro> HD-PORN :D <-- so downloading the Simpsons acts like porn for you??? I don't want to examine your mind >_< 19:26:09 <dihedral> lol 19:26:14 <dihedral> nice one 19:26:26 <dihedral> :-P 19:26:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r10237 /trunk/src/ (timetable.h timetable_cmd.cpp timetable_gui.cpp): -Fix (r10236): It helps if you use svn add with new files... 19:26:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> stillunknown: make vehicles into classes and unify the movement 19:27:06 <stillunknown> There has to be a beginning somewhere. 19:27:14 <stillunknown> It's NOT possible to do it all at once. 19:27:31 <stillunknown> Even splitting up the train controller was a non-trivial task. 19:27:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> sure... rm -rf * and start from scratch :) 19:27:55 <dihedral> just dont run that in / 19:28:15 <Bjarni> nobody claimed it to be trivial 19:28:38 <Wolf01> eh thank you Maedhros :D 19:28:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> compiling takes fooooreeeeeveeeeer... 19:29:04 <Wolf01> i was looking for what i could have break this time :P 19:29:32 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause2: nobody told you to compile on a 25 MHz system :P 19:29:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... now i have a new feature that i want to try out, but no useful savegame to start with... 19:30:24 <Wolf01> i have a savegame if you want, but it uses 16MB of grfs 19:32:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have a really old savegame, i try to remember what i did back then... 19:34:02 *** DreaM[BrB] [~Dr-DreaM@84.23.96.253] has joined #openttd 19:34:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... resizing the window is totally buggy... 19:34:47 <Maedhros> really? it worked fine a while ago... 19:35:34 <Maedhros> hah, that's a bit special.. 19:35:48 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@dD5E03DCF.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 19:36:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> the sticky button stays in place, and it only displays one line after i resized 19:36:31 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest2353 19:36:31 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host48-232-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 19:36:59 <Wolf01> the vehicle is 69 days late :O 19:37:52 <Maedhros> yeah, you need to reset the late counter when the vehicle arrives at its first order 19:39:21 <Wolf01> an automatic clock should be usefull to make an average of the trip time 19:39:53 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:40:14 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 19:40:22 <Wolf01> something like, you start it at the first order, when it loops through the schedule and reaches again the first order it stops, so you have an approx time of the trip 19:40:41 <Wolf01> (from A to B, not A <-> B) 19:40:42 *** [BiG^BrotheR] [~Dr-DreaM@84.23.96.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:41:30 <Maedhros> can do. you can also set the timetable to 1 day, let the vehicle leave and then reset the late counter 19:41:47 <Maedhros> so you can see how late it is (minus 1 day) and that's how long the trip took 19:41:58 <Wolf01> ok, now it looks right: 189 days late 19:43:02 *** Guest2353 [~wolf01@host48-232-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:43:04 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [] 19:43:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> this *dingding* sound is driving me crazy... 19:43:27 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 19:43:27 <stillunknown> Bjarni: http://paste.openttd.org/121 19:45:25 <Bjarni> and you are telling me this now because? 19:46:00 <stillunknown> Forget it, i have developed a bad habit. 19:46:13 <stillunknown> One were i assume i already talked to you about it ;-) 19:46:45 <Bjarni> you lack self confidence to figure out if you are on the right track or not? 19:48:38 <stillunknown> I found in the past that trying to classify too much code, causes a mess, i am looking for opinions, but not necessarily from you. 19:49:29 <stillunknown> I am wondering if this is considered an improvement, in terms of style. 19:50:13 <boekabart> stillunknown: what does this patch do? 19:50:23 <stillunknown> Functionally, nothing. 19:50:25 *** Sacro_ [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 19:50:38 <boekabart> i find the wormhole intrigueing 19:50:49 <stillunknown> It just a step in a (hopefully more sane) managing of vehicles. 19:51:14 <stillunknown> That wormhole has always been there. 19:51:22 <stillunknown> wormhole = bridge or tunnel 19:51:40 <boekabart> stillunknown: i figured so much 19:51:51 *** Peakki [antti@cs181000195.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Lähdössä] 19:51:52 <boekabart> after reading better :) 19:52:17 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:52:31 *** Alanin is now known as alanin 19:54:45 <Maedhros> right, now to fix the resizing... 19:57:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r10238 /trunk/src/timetable_gui.cpp: -Fix (r10236): Resizing the timetable window caused it to think it could only show one line at a time. 19:57:52 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@dD5E03DCF.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 19:58:29 <Wolf01> Maedhros, the pin button is always in the same position when you resize 19:58:54 *** boekabart [~bdb@e215192.upc-e.chello.nl] has left #openttd [] 19:58:55 <peter1138> hehe 19:59:04 * peter1138 experiments with it 19:59:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> i already reported that :) 20:00:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, the timetable window does not close together with the other windows (e.g. orders) when i close the train window 20:01:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> and it might be helpful if the current order is also shown in the timetable 20:01:36 <Maedhros> the timetable window not closing is deliberate 20:02:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r10239 /trunk/src/timetable_gui.cpp: -Fix (r10236): The pin button didn't move when resizing the timetable gui. 20:02:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> but it's kinda inconsistent 20:04:14 <Maedhros> svn commit stat whoring++ 20:04:18 *** nairan [~Maui_key@p5498DEFD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 20:04:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> it might be better to change the behaviour of the old windows, though 20:04:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> i never liked e.g. the orders window closing if i open the details window 20:05:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> are vehicles gonna wait at stations/waypoints if they are early? 20:05:55 *** blathijs [~matthijs@katherina.student.utwente.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:06:31 <Maedhros> stations yes, waypoints no 20:07:21 *** boekabar1 [~bdb@e215192.upc-e.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 20:07:27 *** boekabar1 [~bdb@e215192.upc-e.chello.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:07:30 *** blathijs [~matthijs@katherina.student.utwente.nl] has joined #openttd 20:07:54 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: Life is a game of pick-up-sticks, played by fucking lunatics.] 20:12:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, so i need to set up waiting stations for freight trains, in order to let express trains overtake... 20:13:01 <Maedhros> yes. waiting at waypoints would cause havoc, imho 20:13:10 <peter1138> hmm 20:13:14 <Maedhros> and you can use the bare ground tiles from newstations anyway :) 20:13:26 <peter1138> but: to stop it waiting at waypoints, you just don't specify a time, no? 20:13:40 <Maedhros> hmm, true... 20:14:06 <peter1138> i don't know how it interacts with the travel part 20:19:07 *** ln-_ [lauri@ksenos.fi] has joined #openttd 20:19:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... this savegame runs too well without scheduling... 20:19:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> i need to build a new network, probably... 20:19:44 *** guru3_ [~guru3@90-227-129-150-no21.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 20:19:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> and i'm always going to bitch about lack of PBS if i tried that... 20:20:32 *** Sacro_ is now known as Sacro 20:20:32 *** guru3 [~guru3@90-227-129-150-no21.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:20:32 *** ln- [lauri@ksenos.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:20:39 *** DorpsGek [truelight@openttd.org] has quit [Write error: connection closed] 20:20:49 *** DorpsGek [truelight@openttd.org] has joined #openttd 20:20:51 *** mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by ChanServ 20:21:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> what's funny is that this savegame actually was loaded with the proper newgrfs, although i thought it was really ancient (pre-newstations even) 20:22:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> i believe i started it with the elrails branch 20:22:16 <ln-_> do you think the vehicles are too unsafe? 20:22:20 <ln-_> in this game? 20:22:26 <ln-_> you = anyone 20:22:31 *** ln-_ is now known as ln- 20:22:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> what kind of unsafe? 20:26:32 <ln-> if there's a collision, it's a 100% chance you die. 20:26:59 <ln-> every time every single passenger + drivers of both vehicles die. 20:27:17 <Bjarni> sounds like US safety 20:27:23 <Bjarni> of the 19th century 20:35:04 <Sacro> zomg timetables? 20:37:15 <Phazorx> ln-: these who did not get killed by impact die from shame of being employed by your company 20:39:56 <Sacro> Maedhros: i need some kind of system for telling roughly how long to get from one station to another 20:40:19 <peter1138> i was wondering that too :o 20:40:40 <peter1138> it's a bit... guess work, atm 20:41:48 *** lolman [~lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:41:55 <Sacro> yeah... 20:42:27 <Maedhros> yeah. like i said, one way of doing it is to set the timetable to 1 day (or tick), then reset the late counter after the vehicle has left the station 20:42:36 <Maedhros> how late it is will tell you how long it took to get there 20:43:33 *** NukeBuster [~opera@195-241-212-152.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has joined #openttd 20:43:41 <Sacro> Maedhros: but that takes a whole cycle of the route to do 20:44:05 <Sacro> can it not calculate the manhatten distance 20:44:09 <Sacro> and then use the speed 20:44:14 <Sacro> to give you a rough estimate 20:44:23 <Maedhros> if your railway is straight and flat, then maybe 20:44:28 <Sacro> yes 20:44:36 <Sacro> but state that 20:44:55 <Sacro> its only an estimate based on a straight flat route 20:45:18 <dihedral> good night ladies 20:45:47 * dihedral yawns 20:45:52 <dihedral> :-) 20:45:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> you could have the pathfinder return the length 20:46:17 <dihedral> i need the pathfinder to get me to bed 20:46:27 <dihedral> cu 20:46:28 <Belugas> nini dihedral 20:46:33 *** dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-056-212-225.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.4/2007051502]] 20:49:47 <Sacro> how do you stop it from deleting your grf list? 20:50:01 <Sacro> i add them to ~/.openttd-svn/openttd,cfg 20:50:06 <Sacro> run openttd-svn 20:50:10 <Sacro> and it deletes them all 20:50:32 <peter1138> a "waiting time" indicator would be nice 20:50:48 <Sacro> along with the loading %age 20:54:30 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A61B5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:56:33 <Sacro> ls -o standard/*.grf | awk '{print }' 20:56:34 <colle> it seems to delete the grf-entries for the files it doesn't find 20:56:41 <Sacro> i'm sure theres a more efficient way 20:57:58 <Sacro> though i figured out awk! 21:01:02 <Wolf01> 'night 21:01:09 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host48-232-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:03:50 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-89-217-30-51.adslplus.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:04:12 <Bjarni> how do I make an ssh connection and tell it to use my current x11 display as display? 21:04:41 <e1ko> ssh -X 21:04:41 <Hendikins> ssh -X to enable X11 forwarding, and it should be smart enough to do the rest. 21:04:43 <Bjarni> I keep getting "unble to open display", which is kind of uncool 21:05:26 <skidd13> Is the x over ssh serversided enabled? 21:06:34 <colle> check what the $DISPLAY variable is set to 21:06:37 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-84-226-117-248.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 21:07:27 *** [BiG^BrotheR] [~Dr-DreaM@84.23.96.253] has joined #openttd 21:08:37 <Bjarni> now it works :D 21:08:44 <Bjarni> but it's kind of slow :s 21:08:52 <Bjarni> thanks 21:09:55 <Bjarni> I guess opening an ssh connection though an ssh connection would be kind of slow, but I can't access the server directly (firewall setup) 21:10:06 <Bjarni> people are so paranoid 21:12:00 <Bjarni> this isn't usable 21:12:30 <Bjarni> now I have spent 4 minutes opening a text file and it's still not ready 21:12:32 <Bjarni> :( 21:14:07 *** DreaM[BrB] [~Dr-DreaM@84.23.96.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:16:39 <Bjarni> weird. Now it's much faster 21:16:42 <Bjarni> even usable 21:16:54 <Bjarni> it feels almost like working locally 21:16:58 <Bjarni> *almost* 21:17:15 <Bjarni> ahh the nice randomness of internet lag :p 21:18:19 * peter1138 > sleep 21:19:10 <stillunknown> Does anyone know why some changes (when doing svn up) are ignored and simply treated as inverse local copy changes? 21:20:09 <stillunknown> It usually happens in modified files, but does not generate conflicts. 21:21:18 <Bjarni> oops 21:21:26 <Bjarni> control+c isn't undo :p 21:21:49 <Maedhros> good night 21:22:15 *** Maedhros [~jc@host86-137-64-30.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:22:46 <Bjarni> stillunknown: when updating, if you have local modifications, it will keep those. If they are like the update, they aren't local modifications anymore (naturally)... id that what you meant or something else? 21:23:51 <stillunknown> If a trunk revision adds: int foo = 1; 21:24:07 <stillunknown> Sometimes it doesn't add that and svn diff shows -int foo = 1; 21:24:26 <Bjarni> odd 21:24:30 <Bjarni> it shouldn't do that 21:24:46 * Bjarni think he just found a bug (but not in OTTD) 21:25:12 <Bjarni> when copy pasting in nedit, it reads it as control+c and it closes the app 21:25:17 <Bjarni> really annoying 21:28:20 <skidd13> started from an xterm? 21:28:39 <Bjarni> yes 21:28:49 <Bjarni> any known workarounds for this issue? 21:29:12 <skidd13> ctrl+c is AFAIK the term signal for the current running process. 21:29:22 <Bjarni> yeah 21:29:28 <eekee> funny, nedit should be able to override ctrl-c iirc. I /theenk/ vi does. 21:29:32 <Bjarni> but it's also copy in nedit >_< 21:30:23 <eekee> yeah that's a bug in nedit, it shuld be blocking it. 21:32:13 <Bjarni> it doesn't appear to have easy access to hotkey setup 21:34:26 <NukeBuster> try ctrl-insert 21:34:43 *** e1ko [~L@205.117.broadband9.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:35:56 <Bjarni> didn't work either 21:36:09 <Bjarni> interesting 21:36:18 <Bjarni> control-v kills it as well 21:37:18 <skidd13> man xterm -> modifyFunctionKeys 21:40:37 *** [BiG^BrotheR] [~Dr-DreaM@84.23.96.253] has quit [Quit: ][DreaM-ScripT][] 21:40:49 *** mode/#openttd [+v DorpsGek] by ChanServ 21:40:49 *** mode/#openttd [+v Bjarni] by ChanServ 21:40:49 *** mode/#openttd [+o peter1138] by ChanServ 21:40:52 *** mode/#openttd [+v orudge] by ChanServ 21:41:06 <Bjarni> I got voice :D 21:41:14 <Bjarni> I have no idea what I should do with it though :p 21:41:36 *** Smoovious [~smoovious@c-71-205-140-67.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:44:08 *** thgergo [~th_gergo@dsl51B78919.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:45:08 *** oxygene_ [~oxygene@p50807EB5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Schneuz ihn dir kräftig, schneuz ihn dir hart] 21:47:32 *** raimar2 [~hawk@p5489DC2A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:47:42 <stillunknown> Now i know what caused my problem, i probably forgot to reload a file and saved the old one. 21:49:27 <skidd13> you can modify the ressources of the xterm in ~/.Xdefaults eg XTerm*modifyFunctionKeys: -1 and all ctrl, etc signal catching from xterm is gone. As far as I understand then manual right. 21:52:50 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387CF0F.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:54:43 *** raimar3 [~hawk@p5489CC57.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:55:29 *** UserErr0r [asdf@c-67-186-213-72.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:00:52 *** HMage [hmage@89-178-35-34.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:02:05 <Bjarni> <stillunknown> Now i know what caused my problem, i probably forgot to reload a file and saved the old one. <-- use a client that can figure out that the file is changed ;) 22:02:22 <Bjarni> fuck, now I have another problem 22:02:35 <Bjarni> my | hotkeys are mapped to something else in nedit 22:02:46 <Bjarni> and since I still can't copy paste.... 22:02:47 <Bjarni> fuck 22:03:40 *** HMage [Queneex@89-178-35-34.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 22:04:34 <Bjarni> hmm 22:04:50 <Bjarni> how to reload .Xdefaults without logging out and in again? 22:05:12 <skidd13> tried to start a new xterm? 22:05:13 *** Thomas[NL] [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:05:29 *** Nickman [~nn@d54C1C327.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )] 22:06:03 <Bjarni> hmm 22:06:12 <Bjarni> looks like it didn't like my modification 22:06:25 <Bjarni> ohh, it just lagged big time 22:10:30 *** Sug [~graeme@88-104-118-19.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:13:09 <Bjarni> bahh, I can't get copy pasting to work 22:13:33 <Bjarni> however I can open pico to add the two || I need... talk about lame workaround 22:13:56 <Bjarni> on the other hand, pico lacks symtax highlighting and line numbers 22:16:03 * Sacro writes a securom patch for openttd 22:20:17 <Bjarni> YOU will write a patch? 22:21:31 *** MarkMc [~hestporr@h62n5c1o1114.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #openttd 22:21:48 <skidd13> What about a keyboard GUI for PDA's or NintendoDS? 22:25:13 *** glx|away [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 22:25:16 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx|away] by ChanServ 22:25:38 *** glx is now known as Guest3 22:25:38 *** Guest3 [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:25:38 *** glx|away is now known as glx 22:28:46 <Bjarni> skidd13: the PSP porter took some PSP thingie to add keys. Basically it's a 3x3 fields where you select one. Each of them then contains 4 (or was it 8) letters. This allows writing with only direction keys if needed 22:29:16 <Bjarni> naturally we should not make OpenTTD depend on 3rd party PSP libs for all ports, but the idea appeared sane 22:30:59 *** Smoovious [~smoovious@c-71-205-140-67.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 22:31:00 <skidd13> Damn it's late here. night 22:31:03 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A61B5.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 22:31:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's only 0:30... the night barely began 22:31:39 <Bjarni> yeah 22:31:53 <Bjarni> I plan on having some more working code when I show up tomorrow 22:32:05 <Bjarni> and the other guys will gaze at the svn log xD 22:32:23 <Bjarni> the time stamps and the added functions 22:32:42 <Bjarni> last time that happened was the 6:15 commit Sunday morning 22:32:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> lmao :p 22:33:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> that can't happen today :p 22:33:30 * Bjarni wonders if he will be asked "don't you ever sleep" tomorrow 22:33:40 <MarkMc> It's 12:33AM here to :) 22:34:37 <Bjarni> btw I already coded one functionality we had declared "we can't make it in time" and in time would be before Friday, so I feel pretty good about this 22:35:39 <Smoovious> what' the functionality?? 22:35:48 <Bjarni> err 22:35:52 <Bjarni> that's a long story 22:36:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> but you have to think about the functionality you skipped in the mean time 22:36:07 <Bjarni> it's some robot driving based on sensor input 22:39:37 <Smoovious> oh, real-world stuff? 22:40:07 <Bjarni> yeah 22:40:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> not real world... he was talking about robots and sensors... :p 22:40:21 <Smoovious> the kind of stuff they had those full-scale cross-country autonomous races for? 22:40:32 <Bjarni> but it's real world stuff to make it avoid driving into walls xD 22:40:46 *** lolman [~lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 22:40:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> Smoovious: this is not america, we have smaller scale presentations here in europe :p 22:41:24 <Smoovious> um... the competitors weren't all americans... .. . 22:41:40 <Bjarni> <Smoovious> the kind of stuff they had those full-scale cross-country autonomous races for? <-- basically yes. We use the same gates and stuff as the annual competition at uni 22:42:00 <Smoovious> that's quite cool, Bjarni... 22:42:02 <Bjarni> a competition that sometimes include teams from other countries 22:43:02 <Smoovious> watching the extended coverage of the races was one of the most interesting things I've had a chance to check out in the past few years... only wish I was able to be part of one of the teams. :) 22:43:47 <Bjarni> <Smoovious> that's quite cool, Bjarni... <-- I know... and the cool part is that my code (mainly my code) can actually reach finish by now (deadline is Friday). Now I just have to make it not take the easy shortcuts so I can get more points, but it can reach the goal, which is a victory in itself :D 22:44:03 <Smoovious> :) 22:44:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> that's probably easy... just study some fancy branch of robotics :p 22:44:31 <Smoovious> easy... right. 22:44:57 <Smoovious> dealing with obstacles efficiently is one of the hardest things... 22:44:59 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:45:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> "easy" is always from my point of view :) 22:45:11 <Bjarni> well, actually it didn't actually enter the goal... it reached it and the battery died like 10 cm from it because he had made test runs all day... then it had to recharge all night :( 22:45:16 <Smoovious> uh huh 22:45:26 <Bjarni> now that looked silly... o_O 22:45:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> pwned! :p 22:45:57 <Bjarni> it really died... I mean it started rebooting when I plugged in the external power 22:45:58 <Smoovious> what's the vehicle/team's name? 22:46:13 <Bjarni> name? 22:46:16 <Bjarni> err 22:46:18 <Smoovious> yeah 22:46:24 <Bjarni> should we have a name? 22:46:39 <Bjarni> it's not some official competition, just some internal stuff 22:46:40 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Quit: Solong, and thanks for all the fish.] 22:46:40 <Smoovious> why not... it is much better than talking about "those guys" 22:46:46 <Bjarni> we are group no. 3 22:47:02 <Bjarni> located between group no. 2 and group no. 4 22:47:06 <Smoovious> hmm... a little dry... needs something... .. . 22:47:13 <Smoovious> :D 22:47:23 <Bjarni> it fits the numbers on the tables 22:47:36 <Bjarni> I like how the tables are numbered with 0 indexes :D 22:47:55 <Bjarni> usually real life numbering starts with 1, but in this case, it starts with 0 22:48:07 <Bjarni> there is also a robot numbered 0 22:48:16 <Bjarni> and stuff 22:48:34 <Smoovious> used to watch those battlebot shows... got dissapointed quick cuz they were basically just doing remote-control... not real 'bots... but kept watching cuz of the carnage... now if they really were 'bots... that would have been excellent 22:48:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> q.e.d. it is not real life 22:49:44 <Smoovious> RC vehicles on steroids 22:50:53 <Bjarni> I once saw one of those battles... it was funny, but in an unintentional way. Some robot had a circular saw as the only weapon. It was too light to push the other robot, so it really only had the saw. When it hit the other robot, the force of the saw as so little that it just stopped instead of damaging the other one. Then it tried to make a run for it and attack with great speed because that increased saw speed.... then it fell off 22:50:53 <Bjarni> :D 22:51:32 <Bjarni> sounds like poor testing to me 22:52:02 <Smoovious> hahaha... I think I know which one you mean 22:52:31 <Bjarni> however I don't like the whole idea of damaging other robots 22:52:33 <Smoovious> the silliest one I think was this guy that basically made a facetted snake... 22:52:40 <Bjarni> they spent ages building them 22:55:41 <Bjarni> I was told about a competition where two robots had to pick up balls (or something), so they were two on the field at once. They headed for each other, so they tried to stop, but one of them got so close to the other one that the distance sensors entered their blind distance, so the other robot was gone in the input, so it speeded up again and they crashed.... one came out of it (the blinded one) and it learned where it was after th 22:55:41 <Bjarni> e accident so it did ok afterwards... the other one didn't realised that it had a push, so it was turned and acted like it was still heading in the same direction so it didn't do anything sane after that 22:55:46 <Bjarni> but it really was an accident 22:56:44 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:56:57 <Smoovious> yeah, I see some of those too... 22:57:38 <Bjarni> robots are cool 22:57:46 <Bjarni> but they can be damn tricky to deal with 22:57:51 <Smoovious> actually had a team from my old high school in one... was cool... never had anything like that going on when I was still a student 22:58:15 <Bjarni> you had a robot in high school??? 22:58:23 <Bjarni> did it do your homework? 22:58:25 <Bjarni> :p 22:58:35 *** bencvt [~bencvt@va-71-53-204-176.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #openttd 22:59:23 <Smoovious> no, I didn't... tech wasn't where it is now... but I was digging into computers a lot then... ~1980... I would have had a lot to offer to a robotics team... :) 23:00:44 <Bjarni> I like how the inside of our robot works... it's a micro ATX motherboard with a flash for HD and stuff running linux and the sensors, engine controllers and stuff are connected to the com ports 23:00:56 <Bjarni> which means that it can do what you expect of linux to do 23:01:09 <Smoovious> back before computers were cool, much less mainstream... as far as I knew, I was the only one in the school who had a modem, much less an internet email 23:01:36 <Bjarni> heh 23:01:48 <Bjarni> reminds me of the C64 days.... I had a computer... they didn't 23:01:49 <Smoovious> have you tried using any basic stamps to control some things and just report states to the motherboard? 23:02:19 <Bjarni> no 23:02:34 <Smoovious> yeah... first one I owned was a CoCo-ii... took it apart, tweaked the circuitry... upgrading the ram needed a soldering iron... 23:02:54 <Smoovious> before then, I was using a dumbterm/teletype with a few timeshare accounts 23:04:14 <Smoovious> http://www.parallax.com <--- basic stamps 23:04:59 <Bjarni> hehe.. I remember when at school we had to see something really special... it was a computer, that was able to talk to computers in other towns using the phone lines, so we had a bus trip to another town to enter a really special room. It had like 8 computers or so and then we could pass into the nearby room with the really special computer where you put the normal phone on top of some device and then it could transmit text :o 23:05:11 <Bjarni> just text 23:05:14 <Smoovious> I used a handful of them to automate the layout of a model railroad club I used to be in 23:05:40 <Smoovious> an AsciiScope? 23:06:04 <Bjarni> so basically the class spent a whole day travelling to another town, seeing a computer with a modem, watching a specially trained person sending an email and then go home again 23:06:07 <Smoovious> acoustic modem? (I started on one of those... only 75bps) 23:06:13 *** lolman [~lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:06:17 <Bjarni> yeah, something like that 23:07:03 <Smoovious> I mostly used a DecWriter-ii... trying to download a program formatted to 132cols when you only have 80col paper sucks. :D 23:07:31 <Bjarni> :P 23:08:06 *** lolman [~lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 23:11:21 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 23:19:07 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50c79adc.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:22:40 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1FF6E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:22:56 <Sacro> !seen Bjarni 23:22:57 <_42_> Sacro, Bjarni (~Bjarni@0x50c79adc.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) was last seen quitting #openttd.wt2 3 minutes ago (20.06. 23:19) stating "Quit: Leaving" after spending 6 hours 12 minutes there. 23:35:02 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:35:37 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Tschüß] 23:36:21 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 23:42:30 *** KritiK [Maxim@ppp85-141-225-194.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:50:54 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-84-226-117-248.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]