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00:00:31 *** Mizipzor_ [~Mizipzor@camembert.byh.bth.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:07:23 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-160-16.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 00:11:32 <ThePizzaKing> :o forums going to phpbb3 00:11:33 <ThePizzaKing> nice 00:12:20 <Sacro|Mobile> yup 00:14:14 *** KritiK [Maxim@ppp85-141-224-191.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:20:14 *** Sacro|Mobile [~Ben@cpc2-mfld9-0-0-cust323.nott.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:29:16 *** Gekko [~Brendan@CPE-124-183-85-6.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 00:34:20 * Maarten slaps orudge. Work faster. ;) 00:34:52 *** iPandaMojo [~panda@c-67-183-216-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: iPandaMojo] 00:35:31 * glx slaps Maarten. He does it as fast as he can. ;) 00:35:31 *** TPK [~jeff@211.28.155.84] has joined #openttd 00:35:39 <Maarten> I know :P 00:36:20 *** ThePizzaKing is now known as Guest260 00:36:20 *** TPK is now known as ThePizzaKing 00:36:22 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A43614.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:38:46 <orudge> Maarten: it's all ready 00:38:49 <orudge> except for the search index 00:38:51 <orudge> just have to wait for that... 00:38:53 <Maarten> cool :) 00:38:59 <orudge> or, hm 00:39:00 <orudge> well 00:39:13 <orudge> no, I'd best wait for it to finish 00:39:44 <Maarten> ur UK time right? 00:41:16 <Digitalfox_Desktop> orudge, was the update a easy one, didn't happen any problems?? TT forums has a big data-base, so i thought it would take a while more to sort all problems that could happen... 00:42:50 *** Guest260 [~jeff@c211-28-160-16.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:43:21 <Digitalfox_Desktop> I never managed an phpbb data-base, but constantly hear a lot of people saying updating it is always a stressing thing, all things can go wrong... 00:43:42 <orudge> Digitalfox_Desktop: it was pretty simple, really 00:43:43 <orudge> however 00:43:51 <orudge> I have done trial installs a few times 00:43:54 <orudge> took me a while to upgrade the theme 00:43:58 <orudge> but the actual conversion has gone fine 00:44:15 <Digitalfox_Desktop> great :) 00:44:29 <Digitalfox_Desktop> You are using RC3 right? 00:44:42 <orudge> Yes 00:45:08 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Nice. 00:45:55 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Was there a reason for not waiting for final, like wanting to see if had problems with tt forums to report before final?? 00:46:42 <orudge> Well 00:46:57 <orudge> I'd performed updates with beta 4 or 5 (whichever one introduced the phpBB 2 converter), as well as with RC1, RC2 and RC3 00:47:00 <Digitalfox_Desktop> I'm not saying RC3 isn't stable, but people always fear messing with data-bases until final versions ;) 00:47:01 <orudge> so I've been doing this for several months 00:47:07 <orudge> I did find a few bugs in earlier versions 00:47:09 <orudge> which were reported and fixed 00:47:18 <orudge> RC3 appears to be stable enough for my own use 00:47:44 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Great, and now we can see what improvents it makes for TT forums :) 00:47:50 <orudge> heh, yep 00:47:52 <orudge> it may take a while though 00:47:58 <orudge> indexing posts at 67 posts per second 00:48:00 <orudge> it's done up to 182,000 00:48:09 <orudge> only 418,000 more to go... 00:48:13 <Digitalfox_Desktop> :\ 00:48:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> that's gonna take a while :) 00:49:25 <orudge> it's either that or an incomplete search index ;) 00:49:32 <orudge> this is actually going to be the only complete search index the forums have ever had 00:49:46 <orudge> as the original imported posts were never indexed fully, back in 2002 00:49:50 <orudge> nor were the AGMTT posts 00:49:54 <orudge> and a few others along the time 00:49:59 <orudge> so in a way, it'll give the database a nice refresher 00:50:06 <Digitalfox_Desktop> So that means an improvement over search performance? 00:50:33 <orudge> Oh yes, there should be an improvement 00:50:38 <orudge> the search feature is also a lot better 00:50:44 <orudge> should be easier to find what you want ;) 00:50:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, it means you can actually reach those posts with the search function at all 00:50:48 <Digitalfox_Desktop> thata was what i was going to ask 00:51:47 <Digitalfox_Desktop> what improvements does the search search feature have? More commands or it's more reliable? 00:52:50 <Digitalfox_Desktop> I always thought in v2 the search function was a little unreliable.. I mean you get the word is type, but most of the times it isn't what i was looking.. 00:52:57 <Belugas> it will be more "realistic" 00:53:04 <Belugas> Muwhahahah! 00:53:08 <Digitalfox_Desktop> lol 00:54:14 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Belugas what are you doing here get back to work @ openttd ;) 00:55:13 <orudge> Digitalfox_Desktop: there are more options, but it should also be a bit more obvious how to tweak searches to get the best results 00:55:29 <Digitalfox_Desktop> cool 00:55:30 <orudge> phpBB3 is also friendlier to search engines 00:55:35 <orudge> so if all else fails, you can just use Google ;) 00:55:52 <Digitalfox_Desktop> :) 00:56:59 *** Gekko [~Brendan@CPE-124-183-85-6.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:57:39 *** Gekko [~Brendan@CPE-124-183-85-6.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 00:59:53 <Belugas> Digitalfox_Desktop, i was only taking a little time off :P 01:00:28 *** Gekko [~Brendan@CPE-124-183-85-6.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:01:06 *** Gekko [~Brendan@CPE-124-183-85-6.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 01:01:17 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Ok, i'll forgive this time... But don't forget the check i will send after THE work, so get to work ;) 01:01:54 *** Gekko [~Brendan@CPE-124-183-85-6.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 01:01:57 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Belugas scuba this weekend? 01:02:39 *** Gekko [~Brendan@CPE-124-183-85-6.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 01:04:03 <orudge> OK 01:04:05 <orudge> I've opened up the forums 01:04:09 <orudge> despite the search engine not being completely done 01:04:40 <Ailure> woah 01:04:43 <Ailure> the layout feels a bit difrent 01:05:26 <glx> yes the "new message" icon drag&drop works :) 01:07:13 <orudge> Read the message in the News forum if you all would ;) 01:09:11 <Belugas> no scuba, Digitalfox_Desktop. I had more then enough last weekend :) 01:09:19 <Belugas> will be time for home improvement 01:10:56 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Looks great orudge :) 01:11:08 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1FB17.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:11:20 <orudge> Cheers 01:11:27 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Hum... Moderators name is in Blue and with green isn't easy to understand 01:12:22 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Like when you enter a section of openttd and it says whos the moderators, it's hard to read.. 01:17:05 <NukeBuster> Does the black dot on topic icon mean I posted there? 01:24:14 <glx> looks like that 01:33:23 <Belugas> it really feels faster, orudge :) 01:33:34 <Belugas> a bit different, but hey... can't stop progress :) 01:33:36 <orudge> Heh 01:33:39 <orudge> well, it should be faster 01:33:46 <orudge> although, right now, the server is bogged down with crawling posts 01:33:49 <orudge> should be even faster when that's done ;) 01:34:08 <orudge> Digitalfox_Desktop: well, blue = local moderators, green = global moderators 01:34:10 <orudge> it may be changed yet 01:34:16 <orudge> and yes, NukeBuster, that's what it means 01:37:50 <Digitalfox_Desktop> orudge: i'm talking about this http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v514/Digitalfox/?action=view¤t=problem_TT.png 01:38:37 <orudge> Digitalfox_Desktop: ah, yes 01:38:38 <orudge> that's true 01:38:45 <orudge> there was always a problem with green on the old forum, too 01:38:48 <Digitalfox_Desktop> :) 01:38:51 <orudge> in that one couldn't read the green on the green 01:38:52 <SmatZ> good night all 01:38:53 <orudge> not sure if there's much I can do 01:38:54 <orudge> but I'll see 01:38:57 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 01:38:58 <Digitalfox_Desktop> ok 01:39:16 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Maybe white? 01:39:55 <orudge> well, no, I don't mean altering the user group 01:39:59 <orudge> but perhaps putting a background there or something 01:40:01 <orudge> I'll see 01:43:53 <Digitalfox_Desktop> ok 01:44:02 <Digitalfox_Desktop> good night everybody :) 01:44:48 <orudge> Night 01:46:06 *** Digitalfox_Desktop [~Digitalfo@bl10-64-12.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Bye] 01:52:20 *** NukeBuster [~opera@195-241-212-152.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has left #openttd [] 01:56:53 *** iPandaMojo [~panda@c-67-183-216-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 01:58:11 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Tschüß] 02:11:32 *** Digitalfox_Notebook [~chatzilla@bl10-64-12.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 02:16:00 *** Belugas [belugas@openttd.org] has left #openttd [] 02:34:57 *** Kyjo [lbmlkthpjf@nezmar.netlab.cz] has left #openttd [] 02:37:59 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.159] has quit [] 02:42:40 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:00:48 *** Tino|Home [~Tino@i5387CC0B.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 03:05:42 *** Smoovious [~smoovious@c-71-205-140-67.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:07:38 *** TinoM| [~Tino@i5387CA3A.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:19:01 *** Smoovious [~smoovious@c-71-205-140-67.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 03:43:15 *** iPandaMojo [~panda@c-67-183-216-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: iPandaMojo] 04:10:44 *** Osai^zZz [~Osai@pD9EB47FC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:52:24 *** Osai^zZz [~Osai@pD9EB47FC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai^zZz] 05:30:56 *** Netsplit kinetic.oftc.net <-> galapagos.oftc.net quits: Rexxars, lolman, Ailure, ThePizzaKing, Ammler, DaleStan, @peter1138, TheMask96, Frostregen__, Born_Acorn, (+53 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 05:32:02 *** Netsplit over, joins: colle, Strid, @orudge, Caemyr, @DorpsGek, alex__, NW|Aerandir, Eddi|zuHause2, Digitalfox_Notebook, Tino|Home (+30 more) 05:32:13 *** Netsplit over, joins: XeryusTC, Born_Acorn, neli, TinoDidriksen, Noldo, nfc, waxman_, KUDr, ln-, Sionide (+4 more) 05:32:31 *** Netsplit over, joins: dfox, tokai|ni, guru3, SpBot, welterde, DJ_Mirage, blathijs, @peter1138, valhallasw`dour 05:33:46 *** egladil [~egladil@duregladil.csbnet.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:35:03 *** egladil [~egladil@frukt.csbnet.se] has joined #openttd 05:52:02 <Smoovious> orudge... ping! 05:57:24 *** Maarten [~dutchusa@cpe-66-74-155-152.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:57:42 *** Maarten [~dutchusa@cpe-66-74-155-152.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 06:05:01 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-149-146.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 06:10:26 *** Frostregen__ [~sucks@dslb-084-058-164-216.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:17:40 *** DaleStan_ [~Dale@pool-71-98-111-190.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 06:22:13 *** DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-111-190.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:22:45 *** Red [SeXyRed@71-10-86-120.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:55:25 *** Gekko [~Brendan@CPE-124-183-85-6.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:56:15 *** Gekko [~Brendan@CPE-124-183-85-6.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:58:52 *** Tino|Home is now known as TinoM 07:06:15 *** Gekko [~Brendan@CPE-124-183-85-6.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:11:25 *** Peakki [antti@cs181000195.pp.htv.fi] has joined #openttd 07:12:26 *** Gekko [~Brendan@CPE-124-183-85-6.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:13:57 *** Gekko [~Brendan@CPE-124-183-85-6.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:15:49 *** HMage [HMage@hmage.dialup.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:17:13 *** Gekko [~Brendan@CPE-124-183-85-6.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:18:38 *** Gekko [~Brendan@CPE-124-183-85-6.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:18:39 *** HMage [Queneex@hmage.dialup.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 07:19:50 *** HaloMaster [~chatzilla@CPE-138-217-196-3.sa.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:20:11 <HaloMaster> hello? 07:21:24 <Noldo> morning 07:21:44 <HaloMaster> any one here use XFire? 07:24:48 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:32:23 *** HMage [Queneex@hmage.dialup.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:32:34 <Smoovious> is it OTTD-related? 07:34:55 *** HMage [HMage@hmage.dialup.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 07:35:41 <Noldo> it seems to be some kind of launch MP games and IM application 07:36:56 *** TinoM| [~Tino@i5387CC0B.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 07:38:05 <Smoovious> so... that'd be a 'no'? 07:40:32 <Noldo> depends on where you draw the line about being related 07:41:28 <Smoovious> I draw it at having anything t o do with, or any interaction with, OTTD 07:42:27 *** elmex [~elmex@e180064102.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 07:42:38 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387CC0B.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:43:39 <HaloMaster> well, there a whole lotta people trying to get XFire to support OTTD 07:44:19 <Noldo> aha, so it is currently not related but people are hoping that would change 07:44:30 <Smoovious> do those people have anything to do with OTTD? 07:47:06 <HaloMaster> most of them play it (not the XFire devs) 07:48:31 *** Gekko [~Brendan@CPE-124-183-85-6.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:48:38 <Smoovious> so they don't then 07:48:41 <HaloMaster> brb 07:48:44 *** HaloMaster [~chatzilla@CPE-138-217-196-3.sa.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.4/2007051502]] 07:56:15 *** Gekko [~Brendan@CPE-124-183-85-6.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/] 07:58:42 *** Tlustoch [~last_evol@vetrnik.koleje.cuni.cz] has joined #openttd 07:59:10 *** iPandaMojo [~panda@c-67-183-216-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 08:01:03 *** Gekko [~Brendan@CPE-124-184-23-75.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 08:14:42 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DF2C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:19:48 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@211.28.155.84] has quit [Quit: ThePizzaKing] 08:23:28 *** iPandaMojo [~panda@c-67-183-216-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: iPandaMojo] 08:32:28 *** tokai|ni [~tokai@p54B818C2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:34:12 *** tokai|ni [~tokai@p54B83FF0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 08:37:19 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 08:38:32 *** Chris82 [~chris@p579E1533.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:38:41 <Chris82> good morning :) 08:39:09 <TrueBrain> morning 08:39:23 <Smoovious> o/ 08:39:25 <Chris82> what's the size in bytes of an uint16 ? 08:39:31 <Smoovious> 2 08:39:35 <Chris82> thx :) 08:39:43 <TrueBrain> in general :p 08:40:01 <Smoovious> in general? 08:40:23 <Rubidium> well, a struct with one uint16 might be 4 or 8 bytes large 08:40:33 <Smoovious> a uint16 is a 16-bit v alue... which is 2 bytes... 08:40:48 <TrueBrain> Smoovious: in general, but not by definition :)( 08:41:15 <Smoovious> that's just silly 08:41:20 <Chris82> SLE_CONDVAR(Economy, max_loan_unround_fract, SLE_UINT16, IN_CHRISIN_SINCE(74), SL_MAX_VERSION), < I was asking because of this line 08:41:37 <Chris82> I need to add a CONDNULL for 70 to 73 to make trunk load with ChrisIN 08:41:47 <TrueBrain> 2 bytes yes 08:42:25 <Rubidium> Chris82: you don't need CONDNULL 08:43:02 <Rubidium> SLE_CONDVAR(....., 70, LAST_OF_TRUNK), SLE_CONDVAR(......, IN_CI(74), SL_MAX_VERSION), 08:43:44 <Chris82> ah ok :) 08:43:52 <Chris82> let me try that, the CONDNULL "hack" didn't work anyway 08:43:53 <Rubidium> and at some point in time LAST_OF_TRUNK + 1 == IN_CI(74) and then you can remove the ChrisIN saveload code 08:44:10 <Rubidium> (and replace LAST_OF_TRUNK with SL_MAX_VERSION) 08:45:06 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A43614.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 08:45:10 <Smoovious> btw, Chris82... I made an attempt to make a patch to save passwords, but the load/save routine were just a mess to follow... maybe you'd have better luck since yer dealing with that more? 08:45:12 <peter1138> whew 08:45:23 <Smoovious> with th e daylength patch set high, it is a pretty big need 08:46:39 <Chris82> btw the bug with the daypatch mentioned in the thread is not really a daypatch bug 08:47:00 <Smoovious> not strictly no... but I can understand what he's getting at 08:47:06 <Chris82> I reverted two files from ChrisIN to add peters autosignals and forgot to re-add the daypatch to the train file 08:47:27 <Rubidium> Smoovious: where did you want to save the passwords? 08:47:33 <Rubidium> in the savegame? 08:47:35 <Chris82> ships, trucks and planes work fine, I only forgot the train code 08:47:37 <Smoovious> Rubidium... yes 08:47:49 <Rubidium> then you better remove the passwords all together 08:47:51 *** Deathmaker [~Miranda@dslb-082-083-223-158.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 08:47:58 <Smoovious> save the g ame... upgrade... reload t he game 08:47:59 <Chris82> isn't it more save to store them locally in a file? 08:48:10 <Smoovious> why remove thhem? being passwordless is thhe problem to begin with 08:48:13 <Rubidium> Smoovious: save the game, send it to the client, load the game 08:48:14 <Chris82> I mean what if I send someone my savegames, are those passwords encrypted? 08:48:27 <Smoovious> why send to the client? 08:48:36 <Rubidium> Smoovious: well, that happens in network play 08:49:04 <Smoovious> so don't send them 08:49:16 <Rubidium> then you must not save them in the savegame 08:49:21 <Smoovious> no reason why passwords should be sent to someone else 08:49:41 <Smoovious> you sign into a game, queried for the password, reply, server decides it is correct, and continues 08:49:52 <Smoovious> but you should s ave them in t he savegame 08:50:13 <Rubidium> Smoovious: saving something in a savegame means it is going to be sent over the network to all clients that are connecting 08:50:37 <Smoovious> why can't you make a distinction if t hhe savegame i s being created for network play, or during a manual/autosave? makes no sense 08:50:53 <Chris82> Rubidium: Is there something wrong with this? http://paste.openttd.org/173 (LATEST_TRUNK = 70) 08:50:59 <Smoovious> you don 't have to 08:52:00 <Chris82> Smoovious: I think the problem is, when storing a password only per person the savegame will be broken for anybody else 08:52:15 <Smoovious> frankly... t he c urrent practice of l osing everyones passwords when you need t o reload a saved game is i ntolerable 08:52:30 <Smoovious> I'm thinking server-side 08:52:44 <Smoovious> the clients of course, s hould only g et thhe passwords known to them saved 08:52:50 <Smoovious> but the server needs to s ave all of them 08:52:56 <Chris82> Maybe you can make some kind of back end to store savegames encrypted in an extra file 08:53:02 <Smoovious> I really don't see what ythe i ssue i s supposed to b e 08:53:04 <Chris82> so you don't have to deal with savegame issues 08:53:15 <Smoovious> overkill 08:53:28 <Rubidium> Chris82: it looks ok to me 08:53:44 <Chris82> hmmm I get a chunk size error on loading trunk tho 08:53:53 <Chris82> I'll see what happens when I make LATEST_TRUNK 71 08:54:03 <Chris82> maybe 70 to 70 causes problems 08:54:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10557 /branches/noai/ (18 files in 3 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added for all lists 2 valuators: DistanceManhattanToTile and DistanceSquareToTile, to get the distance from object to some tile you specify 08:55:49 <Rubidium> Smoovious: and what when the savegames that the server made are shown on a website (like Brianetta's servers do)? 08:56:25 <Smoovious> what about it? 08:56:34 <Smoovious> passwords shhouldn't be viewable to begin with 08:57:09 <Rubidium> when you *save* them in the savegame they are "viewable" for everyone 08:57:12 <Smoovious> these arguments just don't justify going passwordless 08:57:43 <Rubidium> no, but they do not justify saving them in the savegame for a single moment 08:57:57 <Smoovious> they're part of t he g ame... 08:58:28 <Smoovious> encrypt them based on a key file the s erver has in his intall d irectory or s omething if you want t o 08:58:29 <Rubidium> Smoovious: storing them in the savegame is like not having passwords at all 08:58:39 <Chris82> well that's why I suggested storing them in a server side file 08:58:46 <Chris82> the clients don't need that info stored 08:59:04 <Smoovious> no, it isn't like it... we don't have passwords already... storing them would be preferable 08:59:29 <peter1138> what's so hard about storing the password hash? 08:59:32 <Chris82> I think what he is saying is, that storing an unencrypted password in the savegame is like having no password 08:59:37 <peter1138> obviously you don't store the password itself... 08:59:59 <Smoovious> I'm not talking about having it unencrypted 09:00:04 <Chris82> I think it shouldn't be too difficult to crypt it somehow 09:00:10 <Chris82> yeah :) 09:00:42 <Smoovious> I'm t alkling about saving i t in the savegame... avoidi multiple files whenever possible 09:00:42 <Rubidium> if only you had a proper cryptohash 09:00:50 * Smoovious rolls his eyes. 09:00:58 <Smoovious> this isn't a pentagon computer... 09:01:16 <Smoovious> it i s a game... if people are being s tupid with their password choices that i s on them 09:01:22 <Rubidium> no, but something that you break in like 2 minutes isn't good either 09:01:33 <Smoovious> so d on't rot13 em 09:02:17 <Chris82> is it really that difficult to store a password let's say MD5 encrypted? 09:02:31 <Chris82> when I look at PHP code doing such things it doesn't look like too many lines 09:02:38 <Smoovious> but the current practice of reloading a saved game, and s igning into everyone's companies, resetting t heir passwords, and emailing them back out to everyone, is unacceptable 09:02:51 <Smoovious> Chris82... no, it isn't that difficult 09:03:17 <Chris82> well then I wouldn't see a problem with storing it in the savegame 09:03:19 <Smoovious> if someone else loads the game on a differentn install than it was created on, t hen ignore t he paswords ... 09:03:22 <Chris82> I mean MD5 is pretty secure isn't it? 09:03:23 <peter1138> we've already got md5... 09:03:34 <Rubidium> md5 isn't difficult, but you break that pretty quickly 09:03:41 <Chris82> and making **** in the game rather than blank passwords would be preferable too maybe 09:03:45 <Smoovious> what would be the point t ho 09:03:54 <Chris82> errr not blank you know what I mean :p 09:04:49 <Smoovious> I just wanna prevent people from signing into companies thhat aren't theirs, and screwing i t up... 09:05:02 <Chris82> I like that idea :) 09:05:05 <Smoovious> sometimes, ya need to reload a s avegame 09:05:06 <Chris82> I often reload multiplayer games 09:05:11 <Smoovious> same here 09:05:16 <Smoovious> especially long-play ones 09:05:17 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-155-84.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 09:05:42 <|Jeroen|> bring me some pizza 09:05:44 <Chris82> well so reserving x bytes for md5 encrypted passwords in the savegame shouldn't be that big of an issue and when loading that game locally those x bytes are simply flushed or whatever 09:06:07 <Rubidium> setting a "random" password when somebody begins a company isn't good; when that person disconnects he cannot rejoin his company because he "forgot" to set the password to something he knew 09:06:28 *** Ailure [Gamefreak@194.47.44.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:06:46 <Smoovious> you could have t hte password entry window open upon starting a new company tho 09:06:58 <Smoovious> won't stop s omeone from cancelling it, but i t'll remind people to set one 09:07:14 <Rubidium> oh, and it seems one can "crack" a MD5ed password in under 3 minutes with a lookup table 09:07:19 <Chris82> by default the password field should just be blank of course 09:07:30 <Smoovious> of course 09:07:30 <Chris82> are you serious =O 09:07:41 <Chris82> why are all forums using MySQL using MD5 then? 09:07:42 <Rubidium> and don't start with "then we add a seed" because that needs to be stored in the savegame too 09:08:15 <Smoovious> Rubidium... but again... we're not talking any sensitive d ata here... the vast majority of people wouldn't be b othered to hack t he sav file t o locate t he paswords and do all that 09:08:18 <Rubidium> Chris82: because there you do not know both the seed and the md5 of the password (except the people who have actual access to the DB) 09:08:29 <Rubidium> Smoovious: the people who want to do damage do 09:08:37 <Smoovious> any reason why t he seed can't b e t he r andomizer seed? 09:08:54 <Chris82> but when someone would get access to the MySQL database he could hack all passwords? 09:08:57 <Smoovious> Rubidium.,. b ut they're g onna d o damage anyways... and t hat'll o nly work, if they have a c opy of the host's sav file 09:09:36 <Chris82> the problem is not that hacking the savegame is easy 09:09:42 <Smoovious> for t he players, have t hhem blank, except perhaps, for their o wn c ompany's 09:09:50 <Chris82> I think the problem is that some people might use passwords they use elsewhere too with OpenTTD 09:10:01 <Rubidium> that too 09:10:08 <Chris82> no need to tell me that this is stupid but I am sure some people do it 09:10:20 <Smoovious> that brings me back to people having bad password practices tho... and that being their o wn lookout 09:10:31 <Smoovious> it i s not enough justification to do away with the passwords 09:10:40 <Chris82> I agree with that 09:10:53 <Chris82> but still when finding a solution you need to consider that issue 09:11:01 <Smoovious> onlly so much 09:11:30 <Smoovious> perhaps we should just use a military-grade encryption then? 09:11:35 <Rubidium> Smoovious: I agree with that, but any solution that makes the password easily retrievable in really short time (under a day) is not good 09:11:37 <Chris82> I mean I know company bosses who use their initials and birthday for corporate e-mail addresses :D 09:11:47 <Chris82> so don't think people would choose their OpenTTD passes wisely ;) 09:12:02 <Smoovious> it is b etter t hhan no paswords, which don't need any effort at all wh atsoever 09:12:23 <Smoovious> and a gain... t he server, which h as all of t hhem, would be t he o nly one saving all of t hem... the clients wouldn't need t o have them 09:12:36 <Chris82> is there something more improved than MD5 maybe that can't be hacked so easily? 09:13:03 <Rubidium> Smoovious: it's like leaving the engine running and the door open at the parking lot (what it is now) with closing the door of the car, but not locking it, and leaving the engine running 09:13:19 <Rubidium> sha1 for example 09:13:29 <Chris82> btw... where are the passwords stored now? 09:13:41 <Chris82> I mean I can join a server give my company a password close the game come back and the pass is still there 09:13:46 <Smoovious> Rubidium... exactly... and a practice I want t o stop 09:14:19 <Smoovious> Chris82... now they're in memory... but they are in the player.password (don't know exact name) 09:14:30 <SpComb> what we need is... DRM for openttd savegames! 09:14:38 <Chris82> lol yeah right :p 09:14:41 * Smoovious bitchslaps SpBot 09:14:45 <Chris82> good for any non Windows user :D 09:14:47 <Smoovious> er, SpComb 09:14:58 <Chris82> or can *nix handle DRM protected files? 09:15:11 <SpComb> embed a piece of copyrighted something in the samegave, and then slap anyone who decodes the savegame with the DMCA 09:15:24 <Smoovious> 40-bit rc4 maybe? 09:16:11 <Chris82> so let me suggest something entirely different 09:16:27 <Chris82> why not offer a number field from which people can choose a 6 numbered pass 09:16:31 <Smoovious> orbital launchers for moving cargo? 09:16:38 <Chris82> and these are stored sha1, md5 or whatever encrypted then 09:16:50 <Chris82> this way we should force most people not to use their common passes 09:16:56 <Smoovious> Chris82... no, don't like that... not so easy remembered 09:17:08 <Smoovious> nothing wrong with common passes... 09:17:10 <Rubidium> Smoovious: yeah, lets use RC4... 09:17:25 <SpComb> http://www.tmto.org/?category=main&page=search_md5 09:17:27 <Smoovious> I usually re-use 3 d ifferent passwords, just for non-critical stuff... like OTTD 09:17:27 <Rubidium> do you have *any* knowledge of encryption? 09:17:28 <Chris82> never heard of rc4, where is it used commonly? 09:17:55 <Smoovious> Rubidium... some... hey... I'm just t hrowing o ut i deas... it i s what the µT client uses 09:17:57 <Rubidium> Chris82: it's like AES or DES but then weaker 09:18:11 <Chris82> ah ok I know that from WLAN 09:18:15 <SpComb> no, what we need is triple RC-4 09:18:27 <Chris82> 1024-bit NSA keys *jk* 09:18:58 <SpComb> http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/post/78049.aspx 09:19:24 <Smoovious> just don't need to g o o verboard on th e encryption... don't wanna be like using a bank vault to secure m y gameboy 09:19:47 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 09:19:48 <Rubidium> *any* cipher is useless in this case 09:20:11 <Smoovious> well, no passwords is even m ore useless... 09:20:21 <Chris82> RC4 is reversable? 09:20:22 <peter1138> md5sum is adequate 09:20:27 <Chris82> shouldn't MD5 be a lot more secure then 09:20:31 <Rubidium> so: no RC4, no RSA, no AES, no DES, no 3DES, no bluefish 09:20:32 * Smoovious nods agreement with peter1138 09:20:39 <Rubidium> Chris82: yes, RC4 is reversable 09:20:51 <Chris82> am I correct that MD5 isn't ? 09:20:55 <SpComb> Chris82: MD5 and RC4 are two differnet things 09:21:04 <Rubidium> peter1138: but... with md5 you've got the password in 3 minutes 09:21:07 <Chris82> I see, I thought both are encryption algs 09:21:13 <SpComb> one is a hash, the other is a cipher 09:21:37 <Smoovious> Chris82... they're for different uses 09:22:01 <Chris82> would it require more than just a savegame to md5 encrypt passwords like vBulletin or other common forums do it? 09:22:05 <Smoovious> RC4 really isn't appropriate, but I just t hrew it out anyways 09:22:35 <Chris82> i.e. two files to seperate hash and seed 09:22:51 <peter1138> 3 minutes? 09:22:54 <Smoovious> two files i s what I'd prefer t o avoid 09:22:56 <Rubidium> Chris82: the point in forums is that you DO NOT have the seed *and* the md5 of the data (except the site's administrator) 09:23:37 <Rubidium> peter1138: http://www.antsight.com/zsl/rainbowcrack/demo_rainbowcrack_cfg_md5_loweralpha-numeric,1-8.txt 09:23:40 <Chris82> yeah but I thought even hacking the MySQL database would just give you useless crap and not passwords that can be recognized 09:23:41 <SpComb> peter1138: the link I gave above should find most common md5 hashes in seconds 09:23:43 <Smoovious> could keep a key file in ottd's home d irectory, that it refers to for encrypting passwords... 09:24:02 <Smoovious> unique to each host, so a d ifferent host c an't view the passwords 09:24:35 <SpComb> although, it seems to be broken 09:24:43 <Chris82> like the files created when using SSH ? 09:24:44 <SpComb> it was working a while ago when I last played with it 09:26:27 <Chris82> http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13318 < so what they say here is basically wrong? (first 2 posts) 09:27:07 <Chris82> it's a one-way encryption (like md5). 09:27:22 <Chris82> I always thought there is no way you can get md5 back no matter what info you've got 09:27:28 <Chris82> you can read such stuff in many many places 09:27:39 <Rubidium> Chris82: you can't (always) recover the original 09:28:03 <Rubidium> *but* you can make a $something that yields the exact same return value of md5 09:28:14 <peter1138> you just need a big enough database :p 09:28:26 <Rubidium> well, you rather do not know whether it is the original (it might be) 09:28:26 <SpComb> Chris82: if two people hash 'foobar', they can compare their hashes and determine that both hashed something that hashes to the same thing that 'foobar' does 09:29:10 <Chris82> I see, well that drastically lowers my security point of view on md5 09:29:12 <SpComb> it's called the time/memory tradeoff, compile a gigantic list of plaintexts and their md5 hashes, and then start comparing them 09:29:35 <SpComb> well, that's how hashes work 09:29:41 <Rubidium> basically a hash can be simplified to "input value modulo (number of possibly return values)" 09:29:41 <peter1138> those databases only have 1-8 letter passwords, of course 09:30:05 <SpComb> iirc there are also vulnerabilities in the md5 algorithm that lets you generate collisions and whatnot 09:30:13 <Chris82> well but I am sure that maybe 2% of internet users use so called NSA save passwords 09:30:18 <SpComb> so if you have some plaintext, you can craft a different plaintext that hashes to the same value 09:30:24 <Chris82> i.e. multiple words, special characters, 20+ characters etc. 09:30:34 <peter1138> echo -n "this probably isn't in there" | md5sum 09:30:34 <peter1138> 9340d0823923e03d30a6c68d030740ad - 09:30:41 <peter1138> "9340d0823923e03d30a6c68d030740ad - Not Found in Database." 09:30:42 <Gekko> lol 09:30:58 <SpComb> peter1138: it returns NFID for everything I tried, including 'foo' and 'foobar' and 'asdf' 09:31:05 <SpComb> so I think it's broken at the moment 09:31:16 <peter1138> echo -n "hmm" | md5sum 09:31:16 <peter1138> a5175faf6dc24adc7eda4f9cfc721b47 - 09:31:25 <peter1138> "a5175faf6dc24adc7eda4f9cfc721b47 - hmm" 09:31:28 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A5A27.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:31:30 <SpComb> oh 09:32:09 <Chris82> well but for hacking a password like hmm you don't need md5 "cracking" abilities :D 09:32:17 <Chris82> that can be done with bruteforce in no time as well 09:32:19 <SpComb> it helps 09:32:26 <peter1138> yeah 09:32:34 <SpComb> depending on what you want to bruteforce, attacking the md5 hash can be a lot faster 09:32:35 <peter1138> i was showing that it does work 09:32:39 <SpComb> esp. with TMTO 09:32:44 <peter1138> so i dunno what spcomb was doing :p 09:32:47 *** HMage [HMage@hmage.dialup.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:32:55 <Chris82> it definitely avoids blocking due to too many password retries :) 09:33:08 <SpComb> hmm, it's not even responding now 09:33:15 <Chris82> they blocked you :p 09:33:25 <SpComb> a DNS error, no less 09:34:12 <Chris82> well anyway I don't think that OpenTTD passes need online banking security standards 09:34:20 <SpComb> it'S more likely that it crashed and burned 09:34:26 <Smoovious> me neither 09:34:31 <Chris82> so I wouldn't require more than not hackable within 1 day for such a patch 09:35:24 <Chris82> I mean, you can even hack pentagon computers, so pretending such a patch would make the passes inside the savegame totally secure is pretty unrealistic anyway 09:35:36 *** thgergo [~th_gergo@dsl51B789BF.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 09:35:40 *** HMage [Queneex@hmage.dialup.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 09:35:44 * Smoovious nods. 09:36:04 <Smoovious> there's a point where you're just going o verboard i n relation to what is being protected by it 09:36:27 <Smoovious> I mean, hell... my money card i s protected o nly by a 4-digit number 09:36:45 <Chris82> maybe you could do some welcome message for a server that says warning your password is stored in the savegame 09:36:52 <Chris82> use something you don't use elsewhere blah blah 09:37:34 <Chris82> I mean even the rcon passes are stored readable in the .cfg file so that should be enough for company passes 09:37:54 <Smoovious> maybe remote fingerprint or retinal scanner support? 09:38:04 <Chris82> :p 09:38:15 <Chris82> eyescan at least 09:38:27 <Smoovious> sorry, but the whole convo seemed to get out o f hand to me... to the point o f s illiness 09:39:00 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A43614.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 09:39:07 <Chris82> yeah just find the right mix between comfort and security and if it's not good the first time you can always improve stuff 09:40:08 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd 09:41:10 <Chris82> SLE_CONDVAR(Economy, max_loan_unround_fract, SLE_UINT16, 70, LATEST_TRUNK), 09:41:15 <Chris82> is this definitely 2 bytes? 09:42:50 <Smoovious> generally 09:43:27 <Chris82> well I don't see why CONDNULL(2, 70, 73) when I am at 74 shouldn't work then 09:43:36 <Chris82> SLE_CONDVAR(Economy, max_loan_unround_fract, SLE_UINT16, 70, LATEST_TRUNK), 09:43:36 <Chris82> SLE_CONDVAR(Economy, max_loan_unround_fract, SLE_UINT16, IN_CHRISIN_SINCE(74), SL_MAX_VERSION), 09:43:40 <Chris82> this doesn't work :( 09:44:00 <Chris82> it loads all ChrisINs and trunk until 10540 but not the newer ones 09:44:29 <Smoovious> :( 09:44:41 <Chris82> hmmm maybe I switch the order 09:44:45 <Smoovious> well... I gotta crash... 09:44:48 <Chris82> that shouldn't make a difference but who knows :D 09:44:52 <Smoovious> good luckk. Chris82 09:44:55 <Chris82> thx 09:50:02 <skidd13> phpbb3 comes along nicely. 09:50:33 *** Ammller [~Ammler@adsl-62-167-106-163.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 09:51:31 <Chris82> is it better than vBulletin? 09:53:55 <Chris82> at least it looks pretty nice :) 09:54:12 <skidd13> I never used vBulletin for real. So I don't know. 09:54:28 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-84-227-26-170.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:54:48 <skidd13> I miss the icq, jabber, etc icons below the posts, but thats all. 09:54:51 <Chris82> well the problems I had with phpBB 2.x was that it worked badly with 100+ MB downloads 09:55:01 <Chris82> while vBulletin really plays nicely with such large attachments 09:55:44 <skidd13> And I noticed another thing I cant watch diff's anymore with my browser :( 09:56:53 <Chris82> for me they always opened as download 09:57:00 <Chris82> only patch files were shown in the browser 09:57:18 <Chris82> which is weird though because I specified text/plain as MIME Type for diff on my server 09:57:48 <skidd13> no, all text files seem to be downloads now :( 09:58:14 <skidd13> Or is there an option in FF to enable it again? 09:58:38 <Chris82> I think you can open it with the default app in FF, but that wouldn't be the browser I guess 10:00:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> somehow i find the idea of storing passwords in the savegame silly... 10:00:56 <skidd13> What are these bots and crawlers for (pink users)? An why are they shown for noram users? 10:01:11 <skidd13> noram -> normal 10:01:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> save them in $(pwd)/.passwords or something... 10:01:52 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:01:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> they have nothing to do in the savegame 10:04:13 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 10:05:28 <Chris82> were there any saveload changes recently except r10541 ? 10:06:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> svn log <file that contain saveload code> 10:07:24 *** Belugas [belugas@openttd.org] has joined #openttd 10:07:27 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 10:12:10 *** Osai^zZz [~Osai@pD9EB47FC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:18:33 *** Thomas[NL] [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 10:26:24 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 10:31:13 *** Osai^zZz [~Osai@pD9EB47FC.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 10:46:53 <Chris82> yay! once again all savegame issues solved with the IN :D 10:47:12 <Chris82> time for new patches :D 10:52:29 <SmatZ> :) 10:53:37 <Chris82> I think I'll make an additional tab in the patch settings where all ChrisIN patch options will be placed 10:53:58 <Chris82> that should make it a lot easier to take a .cfg file from a trunk game and then only set the additional ChrisIN options 11:00:19 *** Ailure [Gamefreak@194.47.44.201] has joined #openttd 11:03:43 <Chris82> uhm, I just read this in another thread "No EXE unless you plan on uploading the *full* source. A diff is not sufficient." 11:03:58 <Chris82> so I must upload the full ChrisIN source somewhere? 11:04:22 <Chris82> I mean the source not in the diff is available on openttd.org already 11:05:20 *** thgergo [~th_gergo@dsl51B789BF.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [] 11:07:54 <Gekko> uplaod the sauce! 11:07:56 <Gekko> lol 11:14:18 <peter1138> sounds like bollocks to me 11:17:37 *** Tlustoch [~last_evol@vetrnik.koleje.cuni.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:19:14 <Chris82> well a dev posted that on the forum :) 11:19:19 <skidd13> I'm still fighting with my code (tile and RoadBit pointing to it). Can someone help me plese? http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=30972&start=104 11:19:31 <skidd13> please 11:23:36 <Vikthor> Chris82: AFAIK according to GPL you must supply the the source upon request, not automatically 11:24:22 <Vikthor> Of course if he asks for it, you have to supply full source not only the diff 11:24:50 <Chris82> oki :) well it was not in my thread 11:24:50 <peter1138> Chris82: iirc that was dalestan, who is not a(n ottd) dev 11:25:10 <Chris82> I plan to make an SVN Server for the IN anyway 11:25:29 <Chris82> but that won't be earlier than in 2 weeks, because I am too busy with my exams right now 11:27:04 *** Thomas[NL] [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:28:21 <Chris82> what is better English? ...Patches that are added... Patches which are added? 11:31:00 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:32:45 *** lolman [~John@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 11:33:15 *** Gekko [~Brendan@CPE-124-184-23-75.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/] 11:34:46 *** ryu [~chris@p5487EFF9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:35:14 *** ryu [~chris@p5487EFF9.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 11:35:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> Chris82: if you intend to support this for a longer time, you might also try to claim a branch (and a nigtly compile time) like RichK did with the MiniIN 11:36:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> also, diff + link to original ottd source would suffice as "full source" 11:37:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> but given the context (tt-forums) you could state that accessing the ottd source is trivial 11:37:44 *** Thomas[NL] [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 11:40:39 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host248-236-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 11:40:55 <Wolf01> hello 11:45:30 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A5A27.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 11:49:45 <Chris82> Eddi: I intend to support it as long as I am able to solve any savegame or code issues :) 11:52:04 <TrueBrain> Chris82: let me know if you need any web-related things, like a branch, compile-slots on the compile-farm, a webpage, ... 11:54:34 <Chris82> sure thing :) we can talk about that when I'm done with my exams 11:57:24 <SmatZ> :) 11:59:41 *** Nigel [~nigel@202.154.148.217] has joined #openttd 12:00:41 <Chris82> { WWT_TEXTBTN, RESIZE_NONE, 3, 97, 183, 28, 39, STR_CONFIG_PATCHES_AI, STR_NULL}, 12:00:50 <Chris82> can I find a description somewhere what alle these numbers mean? 12:01:05 <Chris82> I think the last two are the upper and lower distance from top of the button 12:01:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> in the header file where the widget type is declared? 12:01:35 <TrueBrain> looking at other entries mostly gives it away, but: color, left, right, top, bottom, string, hint 12:01:53 <Chris82> ah ok I think I got it :) 12:02:04 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:02:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> shouldn't colours have an enum? 12:02:09 <TrueBrain> no 12:05:45 <Chris82> ok so I've edited static const Widget _patches_selection_widgets[] = { 12:05:52 <TrueBrain> I need a new TV, my TV doesn't make my XBox 360 games readable :p 12:05:54 <Chris82> and static PatchPage _patches_page[] = { 12:06:02 <Chris82> and made a static const char *_patches_chrisin[] = { 12:06:05 <Chris82> what have I forgotten? 12:06:09 <Chris82> because the button is not clickable 12:09:08 <Chris82> ahh forgot to add a case in a switch in settings_gui 12:12:38 <Chris82> can I add a string instead of a patch option here static const char *_patches_chrisin[] = { "STRING as Title", } 12:13:01 *** KritiK [Maxim@ppp85-141-224-246.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #openttd 12:25:07 *** raaq [raaq@bot.kapsi.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:37:20 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 12:37:21 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:40:42 *** raaq [raaq@bot.kapsi.fi] has joined #openttd 12:45:15 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-155-84.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ThePizzaKing] 12:45:38 *** KritiK [Maxim@ppp85-141-224-246.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:51:37 *** _Mist_ [mist@106.84-234-138.customer.lyse.net] has left #openttd [] 12:54:47 <Chris82> hmmm what would be the easiest way to make building on a demolished tile the same price as building on a grass tile? 13:02:41 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 13:08:32 *** glx [~glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 13:08:35 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:09:35 *** lolman [~John@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:12:49 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 13:13:20 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A5713.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:14:15 *** Zr40 [~zr40@zr40.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 13:17:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> Chris82: the clear cost of a clear tile is 0, so if you use MultiplyCost, that will not change, try an AddCost independent of the original cost 13:17:58 *** Osai^zZz [~Osai@pD9EB47FC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:18:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> but i do not agree with the general idea, because if the tile is cleared it means you already payed the cost to clear before 13:20:08 *** Osai^zZz [~Osai@pD9EB47FC.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 13:20:11 <Chris82> yes but I want to prevent an exploit in the Town Construction Cost patch 13:20:17 <Chris82> when you sell some land in the middle of a city it's sold 13:20:30 <Chris82> buying the land again shouldn't be cheap just because there is still garbage (brown tile) there 13:20:45 <Chris82> you don't own it anymore and have to pay the full price no matter if the tile is grass or cleared land 13:20:55 <peter1138> isn't that why the original patch did stuff with buy/sell land first? 13:21:03 <Chris82> exactly 13:21:22 <Chris82> but the way the original patch handles this doesn't work for all cases 13:21:33 <Chris82> you can still exploit the original patch by building rail on cleared land 13:22:41 <Chris82> what I intended to do is that if the patch is enabled you should get an error message when building on cleared land 13:22:55 <Chris82> the message should say something like "please wait until the garbage on this tile has been cleared" 13:24:13 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B75A6D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:25:13 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:25:33 <SmatZ> Chris82: can you just add a grass before the cost estimation/building, and the remove it? 13:25:48 <Chris82> I've tried that but that's too complicated 13:26:45 <Chris82> I just need to figure out in which function the cost is calculated and then add a condition that you get an error when the patch is enabled 13:27:23 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 13:27:45 <SmatZ> so any building on a cleared land - even for a city - will be blocked? 13:28:33 <Chris82> I just figured that's a problem when generating a map 13:29:05 <Chris82> MP_CLEAR is clear grassland right? What's cleared land then? CLEAR_GRASS or something like that? 13:29:28 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B75A6D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:32:11 <Chris82> actually CLEAR_GRASS and MP_CLEAR seems to be the same?!? 13:34:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> buying/selling land might be an option, but then removing everything from the tile should turn it into owned land, not clear land 13:35:57 <Chris82> so you mean if I remove a rail tile it should be owned land instead of clear land?! 13:36:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, just because you remove the rail does not mean you sell the land (realistically) 13:36:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> also, if you use bulldozing tool on a house... 13:37:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> or generally any kind of bulldozing tool 13:39:07 <Chris82> but that would involve huge problems 13:39:19 <Chris82> I mean if I sell a piece of rail close to a city center I get a lot of money already 13:39:26 <Chris82> if the land is owned afterwards I can make even more money 13:40:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, make it so removing the rail piece costs the same everywhere 13:40:20 <Chris82> I found the solution I intended :D 13:40:42 <Chris82> I added two lines to CmdLandscapeClear function 13:40:43 <Chris82> if (IsClearGround(tile, CLEAR_GRASS) && GetClearDensity(tile) < 3) 13:40:43 <Chris82> return CMD_ERROR; 13:41:03 <Chris82> instead of CMD_ERROR I actually want a ShowErrorMessage(string... but that doesn't seem to work for CommandCost functions 13:41:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, you have to create a new CommandCost with an error message 13:42:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> it will show that error message later in another piece of code automatically 13:42:25 *** Gekko[PD1] [~gekko@S01060010a71a08fb.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 13:43:04 <Chris82> hmmm I can't demolish water with this line so I gotta add != MP_WATER or something like that 13:43:23 <glx> return CommandCost("message"); I think 13:43:31 <peter1138> "message"? :o 13:44:19 <Chris82> I doubt such a return works, CommandCost is supposed to return numeric values as far as I understood it 13:44:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> it must be a STRING_ID or something 13:44:28 <Chris82> that's why it can't return a string 13:44:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> CommandCost is a struct, to separate prices from errors 13:44:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> it contains both 13:45:07 <Gekko[PD1]> 19:49:07 up 4 min, 2 users, load average: 0.02, 0.11, 0.06 13:45:24 <Chris82> yeah but CommandCost uses only CMD_ERROR iirc and ShowErrorMessage is only used elsewhere 13:45:33 *** Gekko[PD1] is now known as Gekko[PDA] 13:45:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> Gekko[PDA]: beat that: 15:29:32 up 3 days, 10:48, 5 users, load average: 28.20, 24.55, 14.90 :p 13:46:00 <peter1138> commandcost returns a commandcost value, that's the point of it 13:46:07 <peter1138> that can be numeric, or an error string 13:46:08 <Gekko[PDA]> it was at 4 13:46:14 <Gekko[PDA]> i rebooted 13:46:21 <Chris82> ic :) 13:46:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> i mean the load ;) 13:47:02 <Chris82> energy waster :p 13:47:04 <Gekko[PDA]> oh 13:47:22 <Gekko[PDA]> i got my other pc to 400. 13:47:24 <Gekko[PDA]> 8 13:47:27 <Gekko[PDA]> >.> 13:47:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, i forgot to turn on additional swap before making a memory intensive operation :p 13:47:45 <Gekko[PDA]> VM's on 700mhz 13:47:59 <Gekko[PDA]> 196mb ram 13:48:03 <Gekko[PDA]> no swap 13:48:06 <Gekko[PDA]> lol 13:48:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have 1GB ram 13:48:25 <glx> Chris82: CMD_ERROR = CommandCost((StringID)INVALID_STRING_ID) 13:49:02 <peter1138> due to constructors, you can actually just "return STR_FOO;" iirc 13:50:31 *** Tobin [~tobin@c58-107-50-36.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:51:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> in any way, you will probably have to add the "message" to the language files, and use the StringID of that message 13:54:16 <Chris82> yeah I added a string to the language file already :) 13:55:35 <peter1138> http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=6725421 13:55:36 <Chris82> errr why... ..\src\landscape.cpp(413) : error C2065: 'STR_WAIT_UNTIL_CONSTRUCTION' : undeclared identifier 13:55:41 <peter1138> ^^ wtf is wrong with americans? 13:55:44 <Chris82> it's defined in english.txt 13:56:12 <glx> and lang files had been recompiled? 13:56:19 <Chris82> yeah 13:56:21 <peter1138> landscape.cpp doesn't include table/strings.h in trunk 13:57:52 <Chris82> ahhh :) 13:58:50 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@cpc3-mfld9-0-0-cust560.nott.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 14:01:39 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:02:58 <Chris82> http://paste.openttd.org/174 hmmmm 14:03:01 <Chris82> what did I do wrong? 14:03:30 *** lolman [~John@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 14:06:10 *** Zr40 [~zr40@zr40.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:07:04 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@cpc3-mfld9-0-0-cust560.nott.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:15:50 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-212-50-187-248.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 14:16:09 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-212-50-187-248.karoo.KCOM.COM] has left #openttd [] 14:16:31 <Chris82> return _error_message = STR_WAIT_UNTIL_CONSTRUCTION; < works :D yay! 14:16:51 <Chris82> only problem is that the error message is at the left bottom of the screen lol 14:18:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> why _error_message? 14:19:53 <Chris82> well because CMD_ERROR just returns error foo and no specific message 14:20:03 *** thgergo [~th_gergo@dsl51B789BF.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 14:20:11 <Chris82> the suggestions from above all didn't work and I also don't see CMD_ERROR used anywhere where a string is returned in source 14:20:26 <Chris82> I just found an annoying thing anyway 14:20:36 <glx> what happens with return CommandCost(STR_WAIT_UNTIL_CONSTRUCTION); ? 14:21:17 <Chris82> 2>..\src\landscape.cpp(413) : error C2440: '<function-style-cast>' : cannot convert from 'StringIdEnum' to 'CommandCost' 14:21:17 <Chris82> 2> No constructor could take the source type, or constructor overload resolution was ambiguous 14:21:17 <glx> or return CommandCost((StringID)STR_WAIT_UNTIL_CONSTRUCTION); 14:21:44 <Chris82> that compiles 14:21:53 *** Ammller is now known as Ammler 14:23:13 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@cpc3-mfld9-0-0-cust560.nott.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 14:27:15 *** NukeBuster [~opera@195-241-212-152.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has joined #openttd 14:28:12 *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan 14:28:15 <Chris82> hmmm is it normal that all default error messages are displayed in some corner of the screen instead the middle of the screen? 14:29:39 <Sacro|Laptop> Chris82: yes, and it's a pain in the arse 14:29:51 <Sacro|Laptop> especially when they appear in the bottom right during multiplayer when other people are talking 14:30:15 <Chris82> yup that was what I just thought too 14:30:45 <Chris82> && type != MP_WATER && type != MP_HOUSE can I combine that somehow? that looks "ugly" 14:33:42 <DaleStan> Not likely. And even if it's possible, you probably shouldn't. 14:35:12 <Chris82> ok :) 14:41:06 <Sacro|Laptop> hmmm, if i wanted to have a station with platform numbers, would i have to add some extra to the memory array? 14:46:23 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A5713.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 14:53:58 *** NukeBuster [~opera@195-241-212-152.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:54:27 *** NukeBuster [~opera@195-241-212-152.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has joined #openttd 14:56:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10558 /branches/noai/src/squirrel_helper.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix: don't use free'd memory (tnx glx for tracing!!) 14:57:03 *** Ailure [Gamefreak@194.47.44.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:57:31 *** KritiK [Maxim@ppp85-140-207-234.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #openttd 15:18:12 <NukeBuster> 2 trains just crashed.... in a closed signal system... 15:18:54 <glx> bridge/tunnel and depot? 15:19:10 <NukeBuster> no, station and pre-signals... 15:22:06 *** Steve14 [~stephan@p548855FD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:22:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> autosave, reproduceable? 15:22:58 *** Sacro|Mobile [~Ben@cpc3-mfld9-0-0-cust560.nott.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 15:24:15 *** Zr40 [~zr40@zr40.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 15:25:45 <NukeBuster> http://wlsweb.net/images/MunnwayTransport26thMay2001.png 15:26:07 <NukeBuster> hmm... i'll look for the autosave... 15:26:48 <NukeBuster> i didn't touch the ignore signal button... i'm 100% certain of that 15:27:37 <NukeBuster> it's reproduceble it happened again.. 15:27:43 <NukeBuster> the signal doesn't go red 15:29:07 <NukeBuster> well, i got to eat first... i'll upload a save later. 15:29:16 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@cpc3-mfld9-0-0-cust560.nott.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:30:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> but it IS a tunnel... 15:31:07 <NukeBuster> but there is a train in the tunnel waiting for the red light... that the other train in the crash 15:31:52 <glx> still related to tunnel/bridge and signals 15:32:20 *** Steve14 [~stephan@p548855FD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:33:26 *** Chicago_R_A [~anonymous@c-76-16-92-179.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 15:33:47 <NukeBuster> ok, didn't get that one... 15:40:16 *** lolman [~John@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:49:56 *** Peakki [antti@cs181000195.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:50:40 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 15:55:02 *** Markkisen [~hestporr@h51n6c1o1114.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:01:27 *** MUcht [~Mucht@p57A0FBC4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:05:13 *** Mucht_ [~Mucht@p57A0D2D2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:08:08 *** Sacro|Out [~Ben@cpc3-mfld9-0-0-cust560.nott.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 16:15:36 *** Sacro|Mobile [~Ben@cpc3-mfld9-0-0-cust560.nott.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:16:03 *** Digitalfox_Desktop [~Digitalfo@bl10-64-12.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 16:22:59 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:24:52 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 16:26:17 *** Zr40 [~zr40@zr40.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:26:25 <Frostregen> hm, is it still possible to update an attachment in the forums? Or is the new way delete+add? 16:31:47 <Chris82> hmmm good question actually I just wanted to update some files too 16:31:54 <Chris82> would be too bad when the download stats would be gone then 16:42:03 <Frostregen> yup...and 1 click more 16:42:17 <Frostregen> plus re-adding the description 16:42:59 <Frostregen> and maybe another download-id 16:46:57 <Digitalfox_Desktop> So stations are now limited to 32.000 of cargo? 16:49:07 *** Ailure [Gamefreak@194.47.44.201] has joined #openttd 16:50:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> more like beyond 4k cargo you get less and less additional cargo, so it will take quite long to actually reach 32k 16:53:50 <Chris82> http://paste.openttd.org/175 can somebody help me with these errors? 16:55:34 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 17:01:49 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has left #openttd [] 17:02:05 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 17:04:26 <glx> disabled_state is a dropdown_d member 17:04:57 <glx> replace VEH_Train with VEH_TRAIN 17:06:31 <glx> it's we.click (it's an union) 17:07:17 <glx> Chris82: very old patch? 17:07:58 <Chris82> ultra ultra old :D yeah 17:08:06 <Chris82> but I could update most code myself except these 5 errors 17:08:22 <Chris82> the VEH_TRAIN and disabled_state is fixed 17:08:48 <glx> disabled_state is replaced by DisableWindowWidget() 17:08:48 *** Thomas[NL] [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:09:02 *** Thomas[NL] [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:09:04 <glx> or something like that 17:09:12 <glx> (depending on context) 17:09:31 <Chris82> yeah I thought so, I was using the DisableWindowWidget for another patch I did 17:10:15 <Chris82> uhh ahh what happened now lol 17:10:24 <Chris82> 3>Linking... 17:10:24 <Chris82> 3>waypoint.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "unsigned int __fastcall CalcNewAverage(unsigned int,unsigned int,unsigned short)" (?CalcNewAverage@@YIIIIG@Z) 17:10:24 <Chris82> 3>waypoint.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "void __fastcall ShowWaypointTrains(int,int)" (?ShowWaypointTrains@@YIXHH@Z) 17:10:24 <Chris82> 3>..\objs\Win32\Release\openttd.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 2 unresolved externals 17:11:03 <glx> missing file in project 17:11:38 <Chris82> hmmm I just rebuilt the project and I didn't get compiler errors, weird 17:11:46 <Chris82> there should be nothing missing actually 17:13:08 <Chris82> ok these functions seem to be missing for the linker, let me check 17:13:49 <glx> if the linker doesn't find them then the files containing these functions is not in the project 17:14:30 <Chris82> yeah I just noticed this function is placed in a very unlogic location in the original patch 17:14:34 <Chris82> that's why I overlooked it 17:14:46 <Chris82> this patch is really huge and does a lot more than I just try to do 17:15:59 *** alex_ [~alexalex@87-194-40-162.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:16:10 <peter1138> glx: or they're old functions that no longer exist... 17:16:16 <alex_> is there anyway form the serversdie to findout what passwords someone is using on their company? 17:16:27 <alex_> or how do you force remove company from the server? 17:16:39 <glx> alex_: they are stored in clear in server memory 17:17:01 <Chris82> rcon pass "reset_company playerid" 17:17:14 <Chris82> to get the id 17:17:19 <Chris82> rcon pass players 17:17:49 <Chris82> peter1138: The functions missing are from the patch, they are just placed in weird locations 17:18:13 <alex_> thanks Chris82 17:21:19 <alex_> anyone keen on testing my new server? - moved my machines to another box need to test cpu% 17:21:19 <Chris82> I guess _player_trains_desc has been replaced by something? 17:21:28 <alex_> alexserver >> massive >> maxloan 17:21:36 <alex_> 1,024x,02 17:21:36 <alex_> 4 17:21:45 <alex_> 1,024x1,024 17:22:26 <glx> Chris82: maybe 17:22:35 <glx> what is it supposed to show? 17:22:37 <Chris82> any ideas? ;) 17:22:52 <Chris82> _player_trains_desc is only used by the patch not defined, it's from r6xxx 17:23:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> Chris82: check out a version from the time of the patch, look in what file it was in, and then look what revisions changed the file 17:23:58 <Chris82> can I download r6xxx from SVN ? 17:24:03 <glx> yes 17:24:05 *** UnderBuilder [~usuario@168.226.106.8] has joined #openttd 17:24:07 <Chris82> oh cool :) 17:24:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> svn co -r xxxx 17:24:23 *** DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-111-190.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:24:33 <Chris82> I use TortoiseSVN ;) but thx for telling me the command line way 17:24:43 <peter1138> player_trains_desc will now be bjarni's combined vehicle windows 17:24:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, tortoise can do that, too 17:24:58 <Chris82> yup 17:25:25 <glx> I'd ask the patch author to update his patch if I was you :) 17:26:12 <UnderBuilder> will be nice a server where players are encouraged to create its own rail network 17:26:23 <Chris82> I think he's dead already ;) 17:26:35 <Chris82> the patch was for r1xxx originally the r6xxx was done by someone else already 17:26:41 <UnderBuilder> in standard servers they use point to point networks 17:26:48 <Chris82> and it's totally buggy in some parts that's why I only wanted to extract one part 17:26:59 <peter1138> players play however they like 17:27:09 <peter1138> i always do networks 17:29:26 *** Zr40 [~zr40@zr40.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:30:18 *** DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-111-190.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 17:33:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r10559 /trunk/src/lang/ (american.txt catalan.txt estonian.txt slovenian.txt): 17:33:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-07-14 19:32:31 17:33:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: american - 8 fixed by WhiteRabbit (8) 17:33:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 15 changed by arnaullv (15) 17:33:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: estonian - 6 fixed by kristjans (6) 17:33:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: slovenian - 6 fixed by Necrolyte (6) 17:33:35 <Chris82> there's a static const WindowDesc _player_trains_desc = { in r6413 in train_gui.c 17:34:12 <Chris82> so I assume it's static const WindowDesc _train_details_desc 17:34:21 <Chris82> or _train_view_desc 17:34:31 <peter1138> 18:22 <@peter1138> player_trains_desc will now be bjarni's combined vehicle windows 17:34:46 <glx> Chris82: compare the contents of the array 17:36:12 <Chris82> what are bjarni's compiled vehicle windows? 17:36:27 <peter1138> combined isn't compiled... 17:36:43 <glx> "same" code for all vehicles type 17:40:27 *** Digitalfox_Notebook [~chatzilla@bl10-64-12.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]] 17:40:40 <glx> !openttd commit 6562 17:40:42 <_42_> Commit by bjarni :: r6562 /trunk/ (14 files) (2006-09-28 23:05:03 UTC) 17:40:44 <_42_> -Codechange: merged the vehicle list window widget arrays 17:40:46 <_42_> It made no sense to maintain 8 nearly identically arrays when a single one can do the job 17:40:48 <_42_> Also made the two buttons always use half of the bottom width each, even when resizing 17:40:55 <glx> Chris82: ^^ 17:41:16 <glx> I think you can view the diff using tortoise 17:42:05 *** alex_ [~alexalex@87-194-40-162.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:42:27 <Chris82> yup I can use Tortoise for that :) 17:46:53 *** Deathmaker [~Miranda@dslb-082-083-223-158.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:53:06 <Chris82> lol this patch code doesn't really work 17:53:17 <Chris82> I've got a waypoint stats window there now but it doesn't count anything 17:53:48 <peter1138> well no, the function that called it doesn't exist any more 17:54:12 *** MarkSlap [~hestporr@host48-181.etanet.se] has joined #openttd 17:54:27 *** Peakki [antti@cs181000195.pp.htv.fi] has joined #openttd 17:55:05 <Chris82> the only thing that works is counting how many trains are scheduled for the waypoint :D 17:56:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> iirc there was a function for entry of tile and a function for exit of tile, but one was never used in trunk, so it got removed 17:57:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> but that was exactly the function used in the waypoint stats 17:57:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> move the counting code to the other function 17:58:39 <Chris82> but when it uses a function that's not there anymore why does it compile at all? 17:58:59 <peter1138> it doesn't 17:59:15 <peter1138> it adds a function which isn't called 18:01:12 <Chris82> ah forgot to call the WaypointMonthlyLoop(); function 18:01:13 <Chris82> got your point 18:03:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> technically, it should warn you "function xyz() is declared but never used" 18:03:36 <peter1138> only if it's static 18:04:25 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-62-167-106-163.adslplus.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:04:34 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-62-167-106-163.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 18:04:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, probably it has no way of finding out otherwise... 18:06:22 <Chris82> now I call it but the stats are still now shown 18:06:29 <Chris82> except that two trains are scheduled for the waypoint 18:11:44 *** sartsj [~thasarge@i30194.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 18:19:37 *** UnderBuilder [~usuario@168.226.106.8] has quit [Quit: using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12] 18:21:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> forgot adding the strings to the window? 18:23:04 *** Sacro|Out [~Ben@cpc3-mfld9-0-0-cust560.nott.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:23:23 <Chris82> don't think so 18:23:34 <Chris82> I just remove all the stuff that I don't need 18:23:42 <Chris82> to minimize the places of possible errors 18:25:14 <sartsj> hmm 18:25:16 <sartsj> i'm wondering 18:25:28 <sartsj> what happens if a multiheaded train breaks down? 18:25:36 <sartsj> is it possible for just 1 loco to break? 18:25:53 <sartsj> or do they always break down entirely 18:30:46 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: Life is a game of pick-up-sticks, played by fucking lunatics.] 18:31:30 <SmatZ> the train breaks down entirely 18:31:41 <SmatZ> as more engines, as more often breakdowns 18:31:47 <SmatZ> i think 18:32:19 <peter1138> nope 18:32:28 <peter1138> exactly the same behaviour as with just one engine 18:33:05 <Chris82> ok there's something really weird in this code 18:33:20 <Chris82> wp->months_counted = STS_NO_MONTHS_COUNTED; is done when Waypoint stats are initialized 18:33:38 <Chris82> then for the monthly loop I see if (wp->months_counted != STS_NO_MONTHS_COUNTED) 18:34:04 <Chris82> but when I initialize months_counted as STS_foo this if will return false and therefor the loop never runs 18:34:09 <Chris82> or do I get something wrong? 18:34:56 *** aquila [~aq@212.4.33.137] has joined #openttd 18:36:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> what i usually do at this point is inserting printf() at certain points to look what is actually called in what order 18:36:34 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DF2C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:39:16 <Chris82> now the window refreshes and shows the number of months counted 18:39:21 <Chris82> I simply removed the if 18:39:42 <Chris82> I think I compile 6413 with the original patch and see if it actually was ever working ;) 18:41:21 <peter1138> what you probably want to do is to read the code to find out what it is doing, then rewrite it for current revisions 18:42:27 <Chris82> well I've done that with the daylength patch for example, but this patch is so unlogical in some parts that this is diffciult for me 18:43:20 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest329 18:43:20 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host238-162-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:47:12 <Chris82> I also don't get why there is a for loop to initialize stats 18:47:20 <Chris82> I mean stats are only initialized once 18:48:56 <sartsj> 08:32:28 [@peter1138] exactly the same behaviour as with just one engine 18:49:14 <sartsj> wouldnt it be logical for the train to keep moving, but more slowly if it can still carry the wagons? 18:49:14 *** Guest329 [~wolf01@host248-236-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:49:38 <glx> yes but it's not that easy to do 18:49:38 <sartsj> might be a nice feature 18:50:00 <sartsj> i can imagine 18:52:25 *** Darkebie [~dkb@d5153D5CD.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:53:07 *** alex_ [~alexalex@87-194-40-162.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:53:17 <alex_> is there anyway server side i can give a company money? :D 18:55:03 *** Osai^zZz [~Osai@pD9EB47FC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:55:10 <peter1138> no 18:56:14 *** Rippsy [~Moose@87.127.122.215] has joined #openttd 18:59:06 *** Osai^zZz is now known as Osai 19:03:10 <Chris82> does anybody know why the upload new version button has been removed from the forums? 19:09:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> you could try talking to orudge 19:12:03 *** MarkSlap [~hestporr@host48-181.etanet.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:17:37 *** Tlustoch [~last_evol@vetrnik.koleje.cuni.cz] has joined #openttd 19:27:12 <Chris82> orudge told me that the button was removed in phpbb3 19:27:15 <Chris82> bugger :( 19:27:18 *** NukeBuster [~opera@195-241-212-152.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:27:52 <Chris82> well I am going to buy me 3 pizzas now :) didn't have any food today yet except some friuts 19:27:52 <orudge> Chris82: basically, the attachment mod was unofficial in phpBB 2.0 19:28:02 <orudge> phpBB 3.0's attachments are largely based upon that mod 19:28:06 <orudge> but for some reason, they removed that button 19:28:08 <orudge> no idea why, personally 19:28:41 <Chris82> can't imagine why either 19:29:11 <Chris82> I mean that's a pretty big issue when it breaks all links due to changed attachment ids when adding a new version by deleting the old file and re-uploading a new file 19:29:22 <orudge> Possibly just to simplify it or something 19:29:23 <orudge> but, hm 19:29:24 <orudge> a bit annoying 19:29:33 <Chris82> anyway I need food now :D Pizzzzzzzaaaaaaa :D 19:29:39 *** Chris82 is now known as Chris|Pizza 19:33:46 <Hendikins> Bah @ pizza. I want kanga bangas :P 19:34:24 * Hendikins pads off to idle for another 268 hours 19:35:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> can i reroute the stdout of a running process? 19:39:11 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:40:35 *** alex_ [~alexalex@87-194-40-162.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:43:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: richk * r10560 /branches/NewGRF_ports/ (307 files in 24 dirs): [NewGRF_ports] -Sync: with trunk r10027-10559 19:44:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> is that branch used for anything? 19:45:01 <TrueBrain> no, he just loves syncing 19:45:02 <TrueBrain> (dah!) 19:47:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> that would be 5EUR into the bad jokes box :p 19:48:28 <TrueBrain> only if you put in 5 euro for stupid questions :) 19:49:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers :p 19:49:59 <Chris|Pizza> indeed lol 19:50:06 <Chris|Pizza> Hendikins: what are kanga bangas? 19:50:10 <Chris|Pizza> are you bamboocha ? lol 19:50:59 <Chris|Pizza> ahh it's perfect that supermarkets are open till 10 now :D I hope they don't undo that for winter 19:51:52 <TrueBrain> okay, Eddi|zuHause2, so let me rephrase: 19:51:54 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause2: are you stupid? 19:52:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> probably :p 19:52:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> (see!) 20:01:56 *** mikk36 [~mikk36@pc90.host7.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: The pedestrian had no idea which way to run, so I ran over him.] 20:05:12 *** mikk36 [~mikk36@pc90.host7.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 20:07:56 *** Peakki [antti@cs181000195.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Lähdössä] 20:10:50 *** Konar6 [~konar@54.238.broadband3.iol.cz] has joined #openttd 20:21:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10561 /trunk/src/ (blitter/factory.hpp driver.h): -Fix: don't give 'unused variable' warnings when disabling asserts 20:27:17 *** Konar6 [~konar@54.238.broadband3.iol.cz] has left #openttd [] 20:27:32 *** Konar6 [~konar@54.238.broadband3.iol.cz] has joined #openttd 20:27:44 *** Konar6 [~konar@54.238.broadband3.iol.cz] has left #openttd [] 20:29:26 *** aquila [~aq@212.4.33.137] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:30:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10562 /trunk/src/ (misc/blob.hpp misc/str.hpp misc/strapi.hpp stdafx.h): -Fix: most of the MorphOS issues; MorphOS doesn't know about wchars, so disable all code that has to use wchars for MorphOS. 20:34:57 *** waxman_ [~cfluegel@static.88-198-83-123.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:36:41 *** waxman [~cfluegel@static.88-198-83-123.clients.your-server.de] has joined #openttd 20:39:35 *** Kyjo [azrvnvkkpj@nezmar.netlab.cz] has joined #openttd 20:40:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10563 /trunk/Makefile.src.in: -Fix: gcc 2.95 (which is still needed for MorphOS :() does have trouble with using the protected/private variables of the enclosing class (and super classes of that enclosing class). 20:41:08 <Chris|Pizza> has IsInsideRotatedRectangle just been replaced by something? 20:42:49 <Chris|Pizza> nevermind my mistake 21:03:57 *** KUDr [KUDr@mazanec1.netbox.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:04:12 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 21:06:37 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [] 21:10:28 *** lolman [John@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 21:11:21 *** Deathmaker [~Miranda@dslb-082-083-223-158.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 21:12:50 *** Chris|Pizza is now known as Chris82 21:13:03 <Chris82> btw was there a specific reason you upgraded to phpbb3 RC ? 21:16:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10564 /branches/noai/ (6 files in 3 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added a AITileList valuator that checks for a NxM buildable spot with the entry from the AITileList as top-left tile 21:18:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> Chris82: because he already tested previous versions and felt that this one is stable enough 21:22:40 <SmatZ> I am missing other languages than English :( 21:24:34 <peter1138> what else would you need? 21:24:36 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 21:26:50 <SmatZ> there is only the British English in the list - often translations are poor and I use English version anyway, but the Czech translation was rally nicely done in the previous version 21:27:01 <SmatZ> *used the 21:27:23 <SmatZ> hmm too many typos :-x I should type anymore today :-x 21:27:30 <SmatZ> *shouldn't oh... 21:28:01 *** Zr40 [~zr40@zr40.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Zr40] 21:29:06 <SmatZ> today <-> anymore 21:29:30 * SmatZ remains quiet ... I would type more strange things else :-x 21:31:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> SmatZ: no language has been removed 21:31:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> check if you actually have the .lng files in the lang/ dir 21:32:13 <Smoovious> orudge... ping 21:33:53 <TrueBrain> I assume he was talking about the forums 21:33:57 <Chris82> good night 21:33:59 <Chris82> I am off to sleep 21:34:03 <TrueBrain> night Chris82 21:34:16 *** Chris82 [~chris@p579E1533.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 21:34:45 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause2: I am sorry, I said it without any connection probably, I was talking about tt-forums.net ... in OTTD I use the 'Original vehicles names' language :) because I do not have Czech fonts installed (there are still problems with non-ACSII characters under Linux :-( 21:35:18 <Rubidium> SmatZ: just use one of the MS fonts 21:36:24 <orudge> Smoovious 21:38:11 <SmatZ> Rubidium: what are 'MS fonts'? actually, I have never felt this as a big problem ... instead I had a big pain installing unicode support, but maybe I invested too little time into that ... funny enough, even KDE in default configuration shows '?' instead of come unicode characters 21:38:16 <Smoovious> already said i n #tycoon 21:38:23 <orudge> OK 21:38:24 <SmatZ> in OTTD, I like the original fonts too much :) 21:38:30 <Smoovious> :) 21:38:36 <orudge> I use Tahoma in TTD 21:38:36 <peter1138> that is why they are default 21:38:39 <Rubidium> SmatZ: MS => Microsoft 21:38:44 <orudge> always have, since wotshisname made his set 21:38:46 <orudge> Andrex 21:39:37 <Rubidium> SmatZ: http://ttd.tycoonez.com/?id=144 as static newgrf might work too 21:40:58 * SmatZ is googling & clicking links, will reply later, thanks you for some suggestions 21:41:37 *** Darkebie [~dkb@d5153D5CD.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: VIP Gill ;D] 21:47:21 *** Deathmaker [~Miranda@dslb-082-083-223-158.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:50:02 *** DJ_Mirage [~sexybigge@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: www.sexybiggetje.nl] 21:51:06 *** Tlustoch [~last_evol@vetrnik.koleje.cuni.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:52:57 <Sacro> enum TypeDlYesNo 21:52:57 <Sacro> { 21:52:57 <Sacro> Yes, 21:52:57 <Sacro> Not 21:52:57 <Sacro> }; >< 21:56:23 <SmatZ> Rubidium: nice it works! Thanks :) 21:56:31 <Sacro> return this.stringField.toLowerCase().toUpperCase().compareTo(that.stringField.toLowerCase().toUpperCase()); 21:56:34 <SmatZ> that font looks nice 21:56:35 * Sacro cries some more 21:56:40 <SmatZ> :-D 21:56:56 <SmatZ> Sacro: this is from openttd source? 21:57:10 <Sacro> SmatZ: no, but i wonder if i could sneak it in 21:57:39 <TrueBrain> let me think about it... 21:57:44 <SmatZ> well - there is something I don't understand - why there is used cost.addcost(int) used everywhere instead of operator+ overloading... 21:58:06 <TrueBrain> toLowerCase().toUpperCase() 21:58:13 <TrueBrain> is toUpperCase broken or something? :) 21:58:18 <SmatZ> :) 21:58:35 <Sacro> TrueBrain: i dunno 21:58:41 <Sacro> the only possible explanatiaon 21:58:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> SmatZ: "AddCost" has other semantics than "+" 21:58:50 <Sacro> is if you have a picture thats red with green dots 21:58:55 <Sacro> you'd make the red, green 21:58:59 <Sacro> and then the whole lot red 21:59:16 <Sacro> and that'd presumably work if it was green with red dots too 21:59:16 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause2: that semantics could be done in the operator+ too 21:59:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> because "AddCost" changes "this" instance and then returns it 21:59:49 <blathijs> Eddi|zuHause2: operator overloading could still do that AFAIK 21:59:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, "+" intuitively means that the operands are not changed 22:00:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, but it is not obvious to the user 22:00:10 <blathijs> But I don't think operator overloading is really useful except for really simple things 22:00:13 <TrueBrain> += ;) 22:00:18 <Sacro> "It appears that O2's text message server - technically known as an SMSC - had managed to get itself into an infinite loop." 22:00:30 <blathijs> addcost is indeed += yes, but method calls are nice and explicit :-) 22:00:48 <TrueBrain> I agree 22:00:58 <TrueBrain> operator overloading makes code unclear 22:01:02 <TrueBrain> overloading in general tends to do that :) 22:01:28 <ln-> I have already suggested changing _all_ functions to overloaded operators 22:01:33 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause2: I didn't dig into that code, but that seems strange to me... difference is just in the limit that cannot overflow from 1<<63 to -1<<63... 22:02:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, operator overloading may make the code clearer if the data type is used in very complex algebraic expressions 22:02:25 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: you could use cost.operator=(cost.operator+(int)) :-) 22:03:14 <Rubidium> SmatZ: only problem is that doing that makes it impossible to check *all* instances that use the functions 22:03:41 <Rubidium> as it just "compiles", but due to the changed semantics of the function other changes are needed in the code itself 22:04:56 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz 22:06:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10565 /branches/noai/ (8 files in 3 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: allow giving width, height and radius to check for cargo acceptance 22:06:59 <SmatZ> Rubidium: yes I trust you you chose the best solution, I just don't see reasons for that ... I am really not into OOP nor C++ programmer 22:07:08 <SmatZ> so I don't see problems you see :) 22:07:38 <SmatZ> so I don't understand your last 2 lines :( 22:08:14 <Rubidium> I'm not a (proper) C++ programmer either 22:10:14 <SmatZ> I was one of the few who programmed in C first at the University :) 22:11:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> SmatZ: i think what he means if you change the semantics of operator+, you cannot find all uses of that operator+ to change the code there 22:11:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> because there are a dozen other operator+ that have nothing to do with this one 22:11:48 <Rubidium> hmm, still trying to find a proper real-life example 22:12:06 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause2: maybe ... like cost.addcost(int).addcost(int) may be different than cost += int + int, because int + int may overflow 22:12:50 <SmatZ> and using cost.addcost will force programmers not to sum two integers 22:12:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> + should be left-associative 22:13:16 <SmatZ> += has lower priority than + afaik 22:13:30 <TrueBrain> I sure hope so 22:13:42 <TrueBrain> else a += b - c would be messy 22:13:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'd imagine that "a += b" gets unfold to "a = a + b" 22:14:06 <TrueBrain> hmm, bad example :p 22:14:23 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause2: it doesn't as it's another overloadable operator 22:14:35 <SmatZ> a -= b + c 22:14:50 <TrueBrain> better example :) 22:14:54 <SmatZ> :) 22:15:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> ok, but C(++) sometimes has very strange definitions :p 22:15:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> i would not try to imagine what it does with "a[i++]++" 22:16:05 <SmatZ> :) 22:16:16 <SmatZ> google : http://www-numi.fnal.gov/offline_software/srt_public_context/WebDocs/Companion/cxx_crib/precedence.html 22:16:45 <SmatZ> c=a+++++b 22:16:53 <SmatZ> :D 22:17:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> it could very easily unfold that one to "a[i++] = a[i++]+1" 22:17:46 <SmatZ> it will do that, won't ? 22:17:47 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause2: the person who does that should be shot on-site 22:17:58 <TrueBrain> twice 22:18:10 <Rubidium> and a third time to be absolutely sure 22:18:29 <TrueBrain> of course it depends on how good your aim is 22:18:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> and that could be one of "a[i] = a[i]+1; i = i+2;", "a[i] = a[i+1]+1; i = i+2;" 22:18:40 <Sacro> SmatZ: that hurts my head 22:18:50 <Sacro> i think it increments b, adds a... 22:18:52 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause2: that is absolute bollocks 22:18:54 <Sacro> then increments a 22:18:56 <SmatZ> a[i]++ and ++a[i] are different 22:19:01 <Sacro> SmatZ: yes 22:19:09 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: I sure hope so :) 22:19:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> TrueBrain: why? it can move the assignment effect of "++" wherever it wants 22:19:36 <TrueBrain> hmm, in fact.. 22:19:43 <TrueBrain> it isn't different 22:19:47 <SmatZ> Sacro: well, by C standards, there is not defined behavior when more changes are done for one variable 22:19:49 <TrueBrain> pre-++ has lower precedence 22:20:12 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause2: a[i++]++ is equal to a[i]++; i++; 22:20:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> i had a friend who tried "y=log(x++)+log(x++)+log(x++)+log(x++)+log(x++)", and it resulted in "y=5*log(x); x+=5" 22:20:36 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: yes I am sorry, it is the same 22:20:43 <TrueBrain> in theory you can make it i++; a[i]++; 22:20:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> and he was very upset :) 22:21:03 <TrueBrain> stupid of him 22:21:08 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause2: the result is undefined 22:21:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, i know 22:21:24 <SmatZ> yes I know too :) 22:21:35 <TrueBrain> same as assuming that x = 0; f(x++; x++); is equal to f(0, 1) 22:21:51 <SmatZ> yes 22:22:00 <TrueBrain> (as in fact on all compilers I know it is f(1, 0) 22:22:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> but if the spec says "'a++' is synonym to 'a=a+1'" my expansion above is perfectly valid 22:22:12 <SmatZ> but ... "x++ || x++" will work, shoudn't it? 22:22:14 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause2: but the specs don't say that :) 22:22:34 <SmatZ> :) 22:22:52 <SmatZ> hmm 22:22:53 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: adding one (specific) letter makes it behave differently ;) 22:22:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> SmatZ: no, the assignment can be moved behind the 2nd evaluation of x 22:23:05 <SmatZ> it will work only if x==-1 22:23:06 <SmatZ> :D 22:23:11 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: ? 22:23:12 <SmatZ> ah 22:23:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> because there is no sequence point 22:23:21 <Rubidium> if (x++, x++); 22:23:26 <TrueBrain> lol 22:23:43 <SmatZ> && || should hold the order, it is defined 22:24:00 <SmatZ> when something is true, anything after next || is not evaluated 22:24:02 <SmatZ> similiar with && 22:24:03 <Rubidium> SmatZ: and | ? 22:24:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> SmatZ: order of evaluation != order of assignments 22:24:20 <Rubidium> oh, never mind... didn't think about lazy evaluation 22:24:27 <SmatZ> Rubidium: | is a normal operator :) 22:24:43 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause2: I am not sure at all 22:24:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> so if the first x evaluates to 0, it can choose to either evaluate the second x, or do the assignment "++" 22:24:54 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause2: lol 22:25:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> depending on the order, the second x evaluates to either 0 or 1 22:26:03 <SmatZ> as our teacher said - "it is undefined, it may evaluate to 123546" 22:26:10 <SmatZ> not just 0 or 1 22:26:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> undefined != random 22:26:33 <Rubidium> "C++ is allowed to evaluate either [post] ++ first" 22:26:45 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause2: [00:24:08] <Eddi|zuHause2> SmatZ: order of evaluation != order of assignments ... you are right 22:27:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> in general, you should never have two assignments in the same expression :) 22:28:12 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause2: that's for sure, but what about ... one file in ottd .. a second... 22:28:13 <Rubidium> http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/open/n2356/expr.html <- nr 4 22:28:41 <Rubidium> "the order in which side effects take place is unspecified" 22:29:04 <SmatZ> once I tried " ? : " operator instead of if / else statement, but it didn't work, strange 22:30:21 <SmatZ> Rubidium: then you made it clear ... side effects = pre/post ++/-- , function calls - and something else? 22:30:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> not all functions have side effects 22:31:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> any assignment is a possible side effect 22:31:35 <Rubidium> SmatZ: overriden operators 22:32:07 <Rubidium> just read the whole piece of text 22:34:39 *** KUDr_afk [KUDr@mazanec1.netbox.cz] has joined #openttd 22:34:49 *** Osai^zZz [~Osai@pD9EB47FC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai^zZz] 22:35:42 <SmatZ> rail_cmd.cpp, static void DrawTrackBits(TileInfo* ti, TrackBits track) 22:35:59 <SmatZ> there is used the ordering aspect of the || operator 22:36:32 <SmatZ> Rubidium: it is a very long text :( 22:36:57 *** KUDr_afk is now known as KUDr 22:37:28 <Rubidium> nr 4 isn't that long 22:37:53 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10566 /trunk/src/string.cpp: -Fix [FS#1025]: a NewGRF could have a information message that is too long for the internal buffers to handle. We should not crash on such a case even though the message is too big for the window anyway. 22:38:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> indeed, that piece of code looks dangerous 22:38:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> but it uses the , operator 22:39:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> the , operator defines sequences 22:39:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> understand? 22:40:54 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause2: yes 22:41:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> the , operator means "do not move assignments beyond this point" 22:41:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> and each of these assignments is enclosed in , 22:42:35 *** Tobin [~tobin@c58-107-50-36.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 22:42:38 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause2: and when calling functions, f(x++,x++), the , is a different operator... it is not operator there 22:42:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes 22:43:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> but f((x++,x++)) is something different :) 22:43:27 <SmatZ> :) 22:44:16 <SmatZ> when why is there ; while , could be used instead? 22:44:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> because ; can not be placed inmidst of an expression 22:45:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> , is used to place sequence points in an expression 22:45:11 <SmatZ> so ; is weaker than , 22:45:28 <SmatZ> anyway - could I write a procedure using , insteaed of ; ? 22:45:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, ";" sets a sequence point and ends the expression as well 22:45:55 <SmatZ> except structure and variable definitions etc 22:46:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> "x = a , b" is something different than "x = a ; b" 22:48:20 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause2: what's the difference? 22:48:32 <SmatZ> x == a in both cases 22:48:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/cclass/int/sx4db.html 22:49:03 *** KUDr [KUDr@mazanec1.netbox.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:49:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, in fact, the first one does "a; x=b" 22:49:24 <TrueBrain> http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/noai_001.png 22:50:22 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause2: i = 7, i++, i++; // `i' becomes 9 22:50:26 <Wolf01> 'night 22:50:29 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host238-162-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:50:32 <SmatZ> , has lower priority than = 22:50:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> ermm, yes, wrong example for the right thing ;) 22:51:00 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: those are some AI controlled players? 22:51:28 <TrueBrain> 7 AI controlled players 22:51:45 <TrueBrain> no management on the lines yet 22:53:46 *** caladan [~caladan@161-bem-18.acn.waw.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:56:09 <SmatZ> http://paste.openttd.org/176 ... the behavior changes while run with -O3 22:56:19 <SmatZ> with -O3 , both b++ and c++ is executed 22:56:58 <TrueBrain> dah, a is not defined with any value 22:57:24 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: it shouldn't change the behavior ... it either IS or IS NOT 0 22:57:39 <TrueBrain> undefined variables are both :) 22:57:53 *** KUDr_afk [KUDr@mazanec1.netbox.cz] has joined #openttd 22:58:16 *** KUDr_afk is now known as KUDr 22:58:25 <SmatZ> http://paste.openttd.org/177 the results 22:58:54 <Rubidium> SmatZ: ofcourse the behaviour is strange, the side effects are certain after the complete expression (aren't they?) 23:00:02 <SmatZ> Rubidium: as Eddi|zuHause2 stated, ',' is serializing operator - else static void DrawTrackBits(TileInfo* ti, TrackBits track) is rail_cmd.cpp wouldn't work 23:00:50 <Rubidium> SmatZ: that uses || 23:01:00 <Rubidium> your case doesn't 23:01:35 *** Eddi|zuHause3 [~johekr@p54B75EF0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:01:44 <Eddi|zuHause3> what does that have to do with each other? 23:01:49 <TrueBrain> http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/noai_002.png 23:01:51 <Rubidium> and as you just said, || doesn't continue evaluating when it's true, so I guess it's easiest to perform the side effects before the jump 23:02:45 <SmatZ> Rubidium: the behavior is the same when using ';' instead of ',' 23:03:25 <TrueBrain> haha, the difference between 'low' town and 'high' town is amazing :) 23:03:27 <Rubidium> file a bugreport 23:04:02 <SmatZ> http://paste.openttd.org/178 23:04:35 <TrueBrain> http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/noai_003.png 23:04:36 <TrueBrain> gna :) 23:04:52 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: that's better :) 23:05:07 <TrueBrain> the first was already really good 23:05:14 <TrueBrain> knowing there is just 1 airplane serving the station 23:05:16 <SmatZ> this is even better! :) 23:08:03 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B75A6D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:09:28 <SmatZ> ok I just found all of this interesting - I hope you did too, and if you didn't I am sorry for bothering you, I do not have anyone alse to talk about it with :( 23:10:28 <TrueBrain> haha, I am sure we all enjoyed it as much as you did, only most of us won't admit that ;) 23:10:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10567 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 2 dirs): -Add [FS#915]: a "group" with ungrouped vehicles. Patch by Matthias Wolf. 23:11:13 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: thank you :) 23:13:57 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DF2C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:15:22 *** KritiK [Maxim@ppp85-140-207-234.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:35:04 <TrueBrain> http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/noai_004.png 23:35:07 <TrueBrain> now it manages routes :) 23:35:46 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:35:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r10568 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_road.cpp ai_road.hpp ai_road.hpp.sq): 23:35:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: {Build|Remove}RoadFull(). These functions have the same behaviour 23:35:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: as {Build|Remove}Road(), except road is built/removed on both halves of ending 23:35:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: tiles (ie build a sloped road on sloped tile instead half road with fundations) 23:36:23 <TrueBrain> I should delay the process a bit more, as now it is very unfair :) 23:36:38 <TrueBrain> building 24 good stations in 1 year isn't realistic ;) 23:38:01 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: does the AI beat you in the game? 23:38:23 <TrueBrain> what do you think? 23:38:27 <TrueBrain> I am pink :p 23:38:35 <TrueBrain> nah, dunno what would happen if I really tried.. 23:38:39 <glx> but you don't play 23:38:48 <SmatZ> I think you sisn't play :) 23:39:05 <TrueBrain> exactly, pink clearly is a flat line 23:39:14 <TrueBrain> but I wonder what would happen if I tried to beat it.. 23:39:23 <TrueBrain> doubt I can make that much money in such a short time 23:39:45 <TrueBrain> ah, there was a (big) bug in my maintain Route function 23:39:57 <glx> you should try road and aircraft at the same time 23:40:08 <TrueBrain> need RoadPF first 23:40:35 <glx> but your road AI can make towns grow 23:40:48 <TrueBrain> http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/noai_005.png 23:40:55 <TrueBrain> even worse ;) 23:41:37 <SmatZ> :))) 23:41:39 <glx> what happened to the others? 23:41:48 <TrueBrain> they never really took off 23:41:56 <TrueBrain> is because they all walk the same towns in the same order 23:42:01 <TrueBrain> I need to randomize that.. 23:42:24 *** elmex [~elmex@e180064102.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:43:17 <SmatZ> it would be nice to play with really competitive AI ... I think I read somewhere that AI was added in the TTO in the last moment... so it was never really clever 23:43:58 <TrueBrain> it still is an amazing job! 23:44:07 <TrueBrain> that rail road CAN be made, amazing 23:44:22 <SmatZ> :) 23:45:05 <glx> I like how original AI uses bridges :) 23:46:55 <SmatZ> like wooden bridges 30 tiles long in one way, and immediatelly returning in opposite direction? 23:47:21 <glx> yes 23:47:26 <SmatZ> yes 23:47:28 <TrueBrain> I like the fact he had to make terraforming for free :p 23:47:39 *** Thomas[NL] [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:48:19 <SmatZ> he would bankrupt when trying to build first road over some hill instead... 23:48:43 <SmatZ> *else 23:48:48 <TrueBrain> but I really mean it: the old AI is REALLY impressive, I wish I could do it like that... 23:49:54 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: do you mean TTO or TTD? is AI somehow damaged in OTTD, even with patches turned off? 23:49:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10569 /branches/noai/ (13 files in 5 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AIListRandomize as Valuator for all lists to attach a random value to all items 23:50:15 <TrueBrain> I mean original TT, I think TTD 23:51:01 <SmatZ> I hope I find TTO and test it :) 23:51:12 <SmatZ> without FF button it will take ages :( 23:51:16 <TrueBrain> yup 23:52:32 <SmatZ> TTO was nice ... except some bug, once all vehicles begun entering depots very often - I don't remember the details, but I had to remove all depots all over the map 23:54:08 <TrueBrain> okay, my AIs now don't follow eachother 23:54:11 <TrueBrain> but take more random stations 23:54:16 <TrueBrain> see if that changes the outcome :) 23:54:19 <TrueBrain> (it sure should) 23:54:35 <TrueBrain> of course this makes the AIs worse 23:54:49 <TrueBrain> but... we are not looking for unbeatable AIs :) More fair AIs that are fun to play with :) 23:55:06 <SmatZ> :) 23:55:36 <SmatZ> actually, I don't believe AI can be made to beat any average human player 23:55:49 <TrueBrain> I think I can give you one that you can't beat :) 23:55:56 <TrueBrain> but that is more because of the speed it will build :) 23:57:07 <SmatZ> maybe ... while playing singleplayer, I press the F1 button everytime I do not not time to flow :) 23:57:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> i spend 98% of my play time in pause :) 23:57:47 <SmatZ> but even without that - if it beats me without pausing, it is a !great! IA 23:57:56 <TrueBrain> no, just an unfair :) 23:57:56 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause3: same me :) 23:58:00 <TrueBrain> I can make it work on such speed 23:58:06 <TrueBrain> that it builds 1 route every day 23:58:15 <SmatZ> you can make it unlimited money ^_^ 23:59:07 <SmatZ> I would like to have some speed from my computer, not 99,99% spent in AI_RunGameLoop() :-D