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00:00:09 <ln-> the better way would be to negotiate a reasonable price for things. 00:02:37 <gynterk> hmm 00:02:51 <gynterk> but does Chris hold (c) over graphics ? 00:03:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i can imagine that Atari does not completely want to clarify ownership because it might reveal some other dead bodies in their basement 00:04:03 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. in context with that lawsuit above 00:06:38 <ln-> who was the bonehead who contacted the graphics artist and asked if he'd like to draw new graphics for OTTD for free? 00:07:11 <Phazorx> ln-: he gots royalties from every copy of ottd sold? 00:07:28 <Phazorx> sounds like a ncie arangement for one who makes living of selling games 00:07:41 *** N101 [~Name101@CPE-121-216-195-239.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:08:18 <ln-> i have no idea what kind of a deal sawyer and others have. 00:09:19 <Phazorx> ln-: i mean that can be an arrangement for ottd 00:09:33 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-234.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: reboot] 00:09:39 <fjb> There are some really talented artists who make graphics for OpenTTD and TTDP. It would be better to convince one of the to do new graphics. 00:09:39 <Phazorx> and biggest offence i can uimagine would be not having his name on title screen of the game 00:10:10 <Phazorx> fjb: that does not change the fact of ottd being derivative of tt 00:10:19 <ln-> fjb: such graphics could still be considered a derivative work. 00:11:48 <fjb> We have the svn logs of the last years. Everything that was there before could be replaced an documentet in the logs. But that would be much work. The BDS people did the same thing. Now BSD is free from every Copyright. 00:14:16 <ln-> BSD is public domain now? 00:14:51 <ln-> fjb: and actually part of svn history has been lost. 00:15:09 <fjb> I should have said it's free from the UNIX copyright. They have their own copyright now. 00:15:42 <fjb> Every thing that was there before the svn got lost hast to be rewritten. 00:15:57 <ln-> it's still derivative work. 00:16:03 <ln-> it doesn't change anything. 00:17:21 <ln-> proof: every attempt to create an open-source TTD-style (not clone) strategy game has failed. qed. 00:17:51 <fjb> Here is the FreeBSd copyright: http://www.freebsd.org/copyright/freebsd-license.html 00:18:43 <fjb> Why has it failed? I guess most parts are no new invention of Chris Sawyer. 00:19:24 <fjb> BSD ist like UNIX. It startet from UNIX source. It is not counted as derived work in any way. 00:20:00 <fjb> Isometry engines were there before TT. 00:20:31 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: there are lots of attempts to be found in the forum 00:20:37 <fjb> And look at empire, it was open source long before TT existet. 00:20:38 <ln-> failed probably because although there's nothing fundamentally new or complex in TTD, it is still hard work to build such a game, and so far no one has succeeded in the open source world. 00:22:18 <fjb> Sure it is hard work. I guess OpenTTDs new pathfinder was also a lot of work. And many other things there were rewritten for OpenTTD. 00:22:36 <ln-> fjb: it's a little like: you've seen a word processor such as Word or OpenOffice. no rocket science in them. still, would you be capable of writing one from scratch a) on your free time, b) even if you were paid? 00:23:48 <fjb> Much work for a single person. But there is more than one person working at OpenTTD. And look at BSD or Linux. That are whole operating systems. Most done in free time. 00:24:04 <ln-> errr.. no. 00:24:23 <ln-> e.g. Red Hat has a lot of paid employees working fulltime on Linux. 00:24:29 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: stuff [YAPF] gets so much easier if you already have a framework [OTTD] to test it in 00:24:35 <fjb> And word is far more work than OpenTTD. Or look at Scribus, a whole dtp system. 00:24:43 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-131-2.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:24:57 <ln-> fjb: ok, since it is that easy, why have all open source train game attempts failed? 00:25:09 <Eddi|zuHause> and that framework is and will always and forever be a derived work 00:25:31 <fjb> They have lot of people now. But look at the BSD people. Most parts were done in free time. 00:25:37 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-234.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 00:26:14 <fjb> I don't think that the framework is derived work when every line of the code is new. 00:26:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i would imagine that BSD stuff is a lot of students work 00:26:26 <Eddi|zuHause> not so much free time work 00:27:04 <fjb> BSD ist far bigger than OpenTTD. Early Linus was done in free time. 00:27:17 <Brianetta> [01:19] <fjb> BSD ist like UNIX. It startet from UNIX source. It is not counted as derived work in any way. 00:27:27 <Brianetta> BSD is UNIX 00:27:54 <fjb> UNIX was copyrigted by AT&T at that time. 00:27:58 <Brianetta> no 00:27:58 <Brianetta> BSD is UNIX 00:28:03 <Brianetta> as in, completely 00:28:17 <Brianetta> AT&T has SysV, which was the other UNIX 00:28:37 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: it does not suffice to just replace lines of code 00:28:40 <fjb> Berkley got the right to work on that code, but AT&T withdrew that licence. 00:28:55 <Eddi|zuHause> you also have to prove that you did not let you "inspire" by the old code 00:29:19 <Brianetta> fjb: What are you on about? UNIX is a trademark, owned by The Open Group 00:29:24 <Brianetta> BSD is a UNIX 00:29:30 <Eddi|zuHause> OTTD is tainted, and you will never remove that taint unless you start completely from scratch 00:29:30 <Brianetta> Not a UNIX-like, not a clone 00:29:45 <fjb> You don't have to prove that you don't know how the old code works. You just have to prove that your code is not identical to the old code. 00:30:18 <ln-> fjb: so copyright can be removed just by doing a few search-and-replaces for some variable and function names. how simple. 00:30:31 <Brianetta> It isn't so simple. 00:30:42 <Eddi|zuHause> and add a few +0 or *1 everywhere 00:30:46 <fjb> Not completel from scratch. The new pathfinder and other new things could stay in place. We have the logs that prove it is new. 00:31:26 <Brianetta> It would have to be a clean-room implementation in order to be untainted. There is no reverse engineering defence there. 00:31:48 <fjb> But starting over would not be that kind of a bad idea. We could get rid of C and C++ then. :-) 00:32:04 <Brianetta> If I were starting over, I'd be tempted to begin with C++ 00:32:05 <ln-> and move to ObjC 00:32:13 <Brianetta> and have a full OO design 00:32:31 *** Wezz6400_ [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-234.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 00:32:37 <Brianetta> In fact, I'd start with a design 00:32:48 <Eddi|zuHause> UML 00:32:56 <fjb> Full OO would be great, but also not ObjectivC. Something readeble please. 00:33:19 <Brianetta> A design document, stating the objectives of the project. 00:33:32 <ln-> i'd suggest the improved version of Brainfuck that supports threads. 00:33:35 <Brianetta> That Which Does Not Exist. 00:33:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Brainfuck# ;) 00:34:33 <ln-> it may not have SDL bindings available 00:34:42 <fjb> Design is always good. Many limitations could be removed that way. The restricted number of slots for the vehicles could be removed. Just put a NewGRF compatibility layer on top of the new design. 00:35:17 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-84-227-188-140.adslplus.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:36:18 <Brianetta> One could polymorph vehicle classes 00:36:31 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: part of the problem is that NewGRF was designed with those restrictions in mind 00:36:48 <Brianetta> Eddi: It might be, but it's extremely versatile. 00:37:57 <Belugas> [20:35] <fjb> Full OO would be great <--- why would be so great about it? 00:38:04 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-234.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:38:06 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, there are more design constraints, like being able to load old [release] savegames 00:38:13 <fjb> You could map the slots internally to linked lists an translate the vehicle ids. 00:38:16 <Eddi|zuHause> and use the old graphics files 00:39:04 <fjb> Why do you need to load saved games. It's just a game and no importand documents. 00:39:26 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: "linked lists" do not have anything to do in such a level of development plan 00:39:44 <fjb> Just play a game with OpenTTD. But start a new game with a rewritten OpenTTD. 00:39:51 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: because you want people to migrate to the new platform 00:40:17 <fjb> How long do people play a game? Month? Years? 00:40:43 <ln-> i agree that being able to load old games is not important. 00:40:53 <fjb> Just make sure you can use the cool NewGRFs. That lavel of compatibility is nedded, not a saved game. 00:41:12 <ln-> and i also agree with eddi that "linked list" does not belong to a high-level architecture description. 00:41:25 <fjb> You can alway play your old saved game with the current OpenTTD. 00:41:39 <Eddi|zuHause> ln-: it has been in the previous development, i see no reason to drop that policy, just because you are starting over with the codebase 00:41:54 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause: new people, new policy. 00:42:11 <fjb> It was just an example how you could have a new design under the hood an stay compatible with the old interface with slots. 00:42:31 <Belugas> [20:43] <ln-> i agree that being able to load old games is not important. <--- it is very important, sorry to be against your opinion 00:43:36 <fjb> Ofcourse it is important when you make updates tp OpenTTD. But not if you start new. Is Locomotion able to read saved games of TT? 00:43:44 <ln-> fjb: aren't the "cool NewGRFs" limited to 256 colors and the sizes used in TTD? 00:44:12 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: is Locomotion as successful as OpenTTD? 00:44:44 <fjb> They are limited. But if the new games uses more colors, than sprites with 256 colos can still beused. It would be a problem the other way round. 00:44:47 <Belugas> fjb, granted 00:44:52 <glx> ln-: they "can" use 32bpp colors 00:45:11 <ln-> semi-offtopic: has there been any USEFUL updates to Locomotion since it was released? 00:45:38 <fjb> I don't know how successfull Locomotion is. It think it look to much like candy. 00:45:40 <ln-> there was one update that fixed something as severe as "Insert CD" showing in english in the german version. 00:46:08 *** Rafagd [~Rafagd@BHE200150061031.res-com.wayinternet.com.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:47:48 <Eddi|zuHause> you need a versioning system anyway, so it is not a huge work to allow a plug for old versions of the savegame structure 00:49:07 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause: preferably a rewrite from scratch should be made by people who have not been at least main developers of OpenTTD. 00:49:38 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't have an infinite source of developer candidates... 00:49:58 <ln-> it could be outsourced to india. 00:50:13 <fjb> :-) 00:50:19 <Eddi|zuHause> that would require money 00:50:41 <Eddi|zuHause> and money vs. open source does not behave too well 00:55:16 <fjb> Could the authors of TTRS be convinced to do some graphics for a new game? 00:56:44 <ln-> what's TTRS? 00:57:13 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:57:20 <fjb> Total town replacement set. A set that replaces all the houses in TTD with really nice new ones. 00:58:07 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: belugas * r11197 /trunk/src/ (industry_cmd.cpp newgrf.cpp town_cmd.cpp): 00:58:07 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Fix: It is not useful to reset the override of an entity every time a new grf file is been submitted. 00:58:07 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: Since newhouses showed the way to newindustries(meaning I copied/adapted a lot of code and processes from it), the behaviour was there for newhouses too. 00:59:43 <fjb> I think about a rotatable map. But that would need houses with four sides, not just two. 01:00:08 <Belugas> fjb, i think not. 01:00:23 <Belugas> the point is that Zimmlock is aiming at a different goal 01:00:45 <fjb> What is his goal? 01:01:21 <Belugas> industries, iirc 01:01:24 <Belugas> good night 01:01:57 <ln-> gezien de afwezigheid van restanten schijnen ze gecamoufleerd te zijn 01:02:14 <fjb> Industries would be better with four sides, too. :-) 01:02:30 <fjb> Belugas: good night 01:08:27 *** goddamnit is now known as DeGhost 01:16:13 *** gynterk [~gynter@88-196-200-147-dsl.rkv.estpak.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:16:43 <Phazorx> err... what's 42's keyword for translating again? 01:23:15 <ln-> http://www.gvh.de/typo3temp/pics/604025c0e4.jpg 01:23:29 <AntB> ok... 01:23:49 <Eddi|zuHause> haha :p 01:24:04 <Eddi|zuHause> Phazorx: i'm 99% sure it's just another random star trek phrase 01:24:19 <Phazorx> hmm? 01:24:34 <fjb> :-) 01:24:35 <Eddi|zuHause> ln-'s phrase 01:24:56 <Eddi|zuHause> it ends with "appear to be cloaked" 01:26:00 <Eddi|zuHause> and says something about "lack of residue" or something 01:26:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm just not sure what "gezien" is supposed to mean 01:27:30 <ln-> gezien: considering [kÉn'sɪd(É)rɪÅ] preposition 01:28:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i just can't come up with a matching german word... 01:28:44 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 01:28:49 <ln-> "angesichts" 01:29:04 <ln-> says this multi-language dictionary 01:29:29 <Eddi|zuHause> well... ok... but that one is neither close to the dutch word, nor very commonly used 01:31:23 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B74642.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:31:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> i would not try to directly translate the word, but instead rephrase the sentence slightly 01:33:25 <Phazorx> !translate de_en "angesichts" 01:33:30 <Phazorx> !translate de_en angesichts 01:33:35 <Phazorx> is not translate? 01:34:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> more like "Aufgrund der Tatsache, daà ..." 01:36:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> or simply "Da es keine RÃŒckstÀnde gibt, ..." 01:36:32 <ln-> actually the latter one doesn't suit for commander Data. 01:37:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, that is quite some important context information for a proper translation :p 01:37:48 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77ED2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:39:22 <ln-> indeed 01:40:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> do you have an episode number, so i can try to find the actual translation? 01:40:44 <Phazorx> of that is too geeky 01:41:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> "Aus RechtsgrÃŒnden hat Google 1 Ergebnis(se) von dieser Seite entfernt." 01:42:13 <ln-> season 2, episode "134: a matter of honor" 01:42:30 <ln-> i don't know wtf is the 134 supposed to mean, but that's what it says in the dvd menu. 01:44:13 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause2: actually.. these dvds have german soundtrack so i could save your trouble and check it myself. 01:44:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> that might be convenient ;) 01:47:57 <fjb> Why do railway stations tend to get that long...? 01:48:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb: because trains are traditionally much longer than wide 01:50:08 *** nzvip [~svip@192.38.109.188] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:51:38 <fjb> A better signal system would be of much help... 01:53:00 <ln-> "die zensoren können keine tromatein entdecken, daher ist angenehmen, daà die Pagh getannt wurde und sich noch in diesen region befindet." (i wrote what i heard, not necessarily correct spelling) 01:53:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> the spelling is way off 01:53:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> and what is "tromatein" supposed to mean? 01:54:08 <ln-> ask cmdr Data. 01:54:11 <fjb> Tomaten? :-) 01:55:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> "Die Sensoren können keine [...] entdecken, daher ist anzunehmen, daà die Pagh [shipname?] getarnt wurde, und sich noch in dieser Region befindet." 01:55:27 <ln-> here's what the subtitles say: "Die Sensoren orten keine TrÃŒmmer. Es ist anzunehmen, dass sich die Pagh tarnt und noch hier befindet." (but that's not 1:1 what's on the soundtrack) 01:55:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> "TrÃŒmmerteile"? 01:55:59 <fjb> TrÃŒmmer, das passt. 01:57:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> and that phrase sounds somehow familiar ;) 01:57:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> and like i said, that sentence is quite a bit rephrased 01:58:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> and "daher" is the matching word, so i was not that far off with "da" 01:59:18 <ln-> they've got quite good lip sync, which must have affected their choice of translation. 01:59:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, it's definitely a major factor 02:03:17 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@xdsl-81-173-233-168.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:06:03 <ln-> must be quite much work to create all the background sounds from scratch whenever someone says something. 02:08:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm not sure, i would assume they get some kind of sound library from the original post-production 02:09:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> they also need access to the background music etc. 02:09:34 <ln-> quite possible. 02:11:18 <ln-> 5.1 soundtracks could almost be translated by replacing the center channel. 02:11:18 <fjb> Today the voices and the sound are on different track. Till the 70s every sound effect had to be redone. 02:13:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> today they also send a video stream without any text overlay... in older shows you often see a black frame around embedded subtitles, where they had to erase the existing subtitles first 02:15:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> don't need to be subtitles, also you often have location descriptions, or the episode title 02:16:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> what i noticed recently, that in american series, they rarely show the episode titles 02:16:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> but they always add them in the german translation 02:16:54 <ln-> some years ago Star Wars Episode 1 surprised people over here, the scrolling text at the begin was localized into Finnish, not subtitled. 02:17:17 <ln-> in Ep2 it was in English, and Ep3 again in Finnish, how logical. 02:17:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> that was always in german, as far as i remember 02:18:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> i mean, also in episodes 4-6 [new count] 02:18:33 <ln-> on DVD that was implemented using angles. 02:18:55 <ln-> (the angle feature used on a non-porn disc!) 02:19:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> haha :p 02:19:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't have any dvds 02:20:05 <fjb> I didn't know that anybody used it... 02:21:34 <ln-> i think angles were somehow utilized in the extras as well. 02:23:01 <ln-> another interesting thing with the Ep1 DVD was its price policy. 02:23:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, it's difficult to use such a feature for a film originally intended to be shown linearily in a cinema 02:23:54 <ln-> when it was new, the DVD cost something close to 40â¬. 02:24:09 *** AntB [~AntB-UK@81.140.71.226] has quit [Quit: *poof!* I am gone -=- Using ChatZilla] 02:24:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> are they insane? 02:24:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> i can rent an entire cinema for that price 02:24:41 <ln-> however, if you ordered it from Australia, you got it delivered to your mailbox for about 22â¬. 02:25:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> i should go to bed 02:25:14 <ln-> and that Australian version *was* R2,R4, and it *did* have subtitles in scandinavian languages. 02:27:36 <ln-> same content for half the price if you order it from the other side of the globe. does that compute? 02:30:51 <fjb> Its all about transportation... :-) 02:32:07 <fjb> Shit, I have been cought bribing. :-( 02:41:32 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:46:24 <fjb> Good night. 02:47:18 *** fjb [~frank@p5485D449.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12] 03:02:13 *** TinoM| [~Tino@i5387C1C2.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 03:06:52 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387C831.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:31:18 *** gfldex_ [~dex@dslb-084-058-037-092.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 03:37:43 *** gfldex [~dex@dslb-084-058-012-227.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:01:37 *** mcbane [~Maui_key@p5498FA73.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:01:42 *** mcbane [~Maui_key@p5498F59C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:05:16 *** De_Ghost [~De_Ghost@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 04:05:16 *** Phazorx [PACO@CPE0011d8690c25-CM001225db7ae8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:05:32 *** Phazorx [Pavel@CPE0011d8690c25-CM001225db7ae8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 04:06:52 *** DeGhost [~De_Ghost@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:21:38 *** N101 [~Name101@dsl-202-173-135-220.nsw.westnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 04:23:55 *** N101 [~Name101@dsl-202-173-135-220.nsw.westnet.com.au] has quit [] 06:05:30 <mcbane> what happened to hydlaa? 06:06:35 <mcbane> wrong window.. 06:17:34 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-164-234.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 06:35:42 *** Wezz6400_ is now known as Wezz6400 06:44:50 *** boekabart [~boekabart@81.58.27.138] has joined #openttd 06:48:04 *** Mark|asleep is now known as Mark 07:13:37 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-13-165.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 07:22:57 *** FlowaPowa [~FlowaPowa@4va54-4-82-244-103-144.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 07:28:16 <TrueBrain> wrong person 07:30:46 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB7802.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:36:08 <TheMask96> wrong brain :) 07:37:48 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 07:50:48 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 07:52:11 *** FlowaPowa [~FlowaPowa@4va54-4-82-244-103-144.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: FlowaPowa] 07:53:40 *** FlowaPowa [~FlowaPowa@4va54-4-82-244-103-144.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 07:54:34 *** FlowaPowa [~FlowaPowa@4va54-4-82-244-103-144.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 07:55:34 *** Alltaken [~chatzilla@121-72-235-8.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #openttd 07:59:58 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-84-227-188-140.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 08:01:28 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-84-227-188-140.adslplus.ch] has quit [] 08:03:52 *** TinoM| [~Tino@i5387C1C2.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:08:53 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387C1C2.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 08:19:14 *** pPACO_BAN [Pavel@CPE0011d8690c25-CM001225db7ae8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 08:22:44 *** izhirahi1er [~izhirahid@squareroot.divisionbyzero.net] has joined #openttd 08:23:15 *** Netsplit resistance.oftc.net <-> xenon.oftc.net quits: Phazorx, a1270, mikegrb, De_Ghost, mattt_, izhirahider 08:24:49 *** Netsplit over, joins: mikegrb 08:26:43 *** pPACO_BAN is now known as Phazorx 08:30:07 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-13-165.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:33:50 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-30-43.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 08:34:06 *** a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-163-29.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 08:35:03 *** elmex [~elmex@e180065018.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 08:39:13 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:41:47 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 08:46:27 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-30-43.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:46:50 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-132-47.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 08:56:42 *** izhirahi1er is now known as izhirahider 08:59:05 *** Arpad [~Gali@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:00:04 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by Peer Gynt] 09:02:06 *** Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@81.171.98.107] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:02:50 *** dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-057-242-177.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 09:03:12 <dihedral> morning 09:04:09 <TrueBrain> morning 09:10:21 *** Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@81.171.98.107] has joined #openttd 09:12:48 *** Arpad [~Gali@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:12:54 * Purno pokes boekabart 09:22:44 *** gfldex_ is now known as gfldex 09:31:53 <dihedral> TrueBrain: i have a little q for you... 09:32:09 <TrueBrain> oh-oh 09:32:25 <dihedral> is building "teleports" by making use of the station spread and removing the unused station parts inbetween considered a bug? 09:33:05 <Alltaken> dihedral: its a feature ;) 09:33:21 <TrueBrain> dihedral: its a feature ;) 09:33:55 <dihedral> just checking - just because it's done a lot on my servers, and some people get slightly annoyed because of it 09:38:19 <Rubidium> probably disabling non-uniform stations removes the option to do that 09:38:28 <Rubidium> s/option/possibility/ 09:39:08 <boekabart> Purno: speak 09:41:14 <dihedral> Rubidium: i dont want to stop people doing so - i just want to know if you guys were thinking of changing it at any time 09:41:22 <dihedral> :-) 09:42:23 *** dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-057-242-177.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.7/2007091417]] 09:42:42 <boekabart> couldn't he limit the max station spread on his server settings? 09:43:37 <Rubidium> unless you limit it to 1 or 2 you can still make those "teleports" 09:48:20 *** Osai^2 [~Osai@pD9EB7AFC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:48:30 *** gynterk [~gynter@88-196-200-147-dsl.rkv.estpak.ee] has joined #openttd 09:48:45 <gynterk> hey is there a status page for my ottd serveR? 09:48:51 <gynterk> like current companies and stuff 09:54:52 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB7802.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:56:59 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-89-217-49-129.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 09:57:34 *** gynterk [~gynter@88-196-200-147-dsl.rkv.estpak.ee] has quit [] 09:58:29 *** gynterk [~gynter@88-196-200-147-dsl.rkv.estpak.ee] has joined #openttd 09:58:48 <gynterk> google is broken :( 10:00:47 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-132-47.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:03:12 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-35-95.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 10:11:43 *** FlowaPowa [~FlowaPowa@4va54-4-82-244-103-144.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 10:12:03 *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 10:13:12 *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 10:16:18 *** mattt_ [~m@S010600e02995cf26.su.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 10:16:47 *** G [~njones@202-154-146-188.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has joined #openttd 10:21:40 *** dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-057-242-177.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 10:23:57 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-35-95.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:26:46 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-50-120.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 10:34:02 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F3C2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:34:33 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:35:12 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-50-120.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:35:40 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-16-82.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 10:36:10 <SpComb> gynterk: there's various ways to do that, but nothing built into OpenTTD as such 10:37:41 <SpComb> MyOTTD provides that info for MyOTTD servers, or you can use something like http://openttdlib.dihedral.de/wiki/LiveDemo for your own servers 10:38:49 <gynterk> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=25545#451840 10:38:51 <gynterk> whats that ? 10:40:25 <SpComb> a patch that has OpenTTD write out the info every month, querying with UDP or reading from the console are better, and exist in the current versions of OpenTTD 10:40:55 <gynterk> querying info each time when page refreshes ? 10:41:00 <SpComb> yes 10:41:02 <gynterk> quite rape to game server 10:41:24 <SpComb> every time anyone ever opens up the ingame server browser, they query each and every server on that list for some info 10:41:45 <SpComb> although getting more detailed info on the companies etc may actually require something more intensive... not sure 10:41:54 <gynterk> hmm 10:41:56 <SpComb> and anyways, if that bothers you, you can implement caching yourself 10:42:26 <gynterk> basically 10:42:32 <gynterk> web status page is the same as in game 10:42:43 <gynterk> only in web 10:42:45 <gynterk> using same packets 10:43:14 *** De_Ghost [~De_Ghost@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 10:43:33 <SpComb> the game uses UDP packets to get that info, which is what dihedral's openttdlib does as well (I assume it uses PACKET_UDP_CLIENT_FIND_SERVER, PACKET_UDP_CLIENT_DETAIL_INFO, PACKET_UDP_CLIENT_GET_NEWGRFS) 10:43:37 <gynterk> yes 10:43:43 <gynterk> i found that thread already from forum 10:43:50 <SpComb> it doesn't look identical to the ingame one, but it's the same info 10:44:03 <gynterk> but, is there a way to make statistics ? 10:44:13 <gynterk> that means writing data after each change 10:44:33 <gynterk> monthly data about finaces and running data about vechiles 10:45:00 <SpComb> historical data? Not sure if anybody's implemented that 10:45:24 <SpComb> it's possible, of course 10:46:24 <gynterk> but that would require somekind data structure and mysql is out question 10:46:46 <gynterk> log files 10:46:49 <gynterk> would be easies 10:46:51 <SpComb> depends on your needs, if I did it (as part of MyOTTD), I would definately use postgresql 10:46:52 <gynterk> and parsin those later 10:48:23 <gynterk> anyway, I'm gona write a stats page :P 10:48:27 *** boekabart [~boekabart@81.58.27.138] has left #openttd [] 10:48:31 <gynterk> and not in PHP since I don't like it 10:48:46 <SpComb> Python... 10:48:49 <gynterk> haxe 10:48:51 <gynterk> neko 10:49:30 <gynterk> http://www.haxe.org/intro 10:49:49 <gynterk> since I don't like apache either 10:49:58 <SpComb> lighttpd :) 10:50:10 <gynterk> i use Cherokee myself :P 10:50:19 * SpComb is a LLPP person 10:50:41 <SpComb> Linux + Lighttpd + Python/Pylons + Postgresql 10:50:52 <gynterk> haxe has excellent build in template engine 10:51:00 <gynterk> fast and good 10:51:07 <gynterk> built in* 10:52:03 <SpComb> first time I've heard of it, sounds interesting, but I'm too deep in python to get out 10:52:40 <SpComb> not that I particularly want to get out, I'm slowly starting to get the hang of Pylons 10:52:49 <gynterk> Its easy to me since it's based on ecma and I have programmed Actionscript for 7-8 years now 10:53:56 <gynterk> and you have to compile web pages 10:54:20 <gynterk> again makes things faster 10:54:57 <gynterk> xml & socket support is excellent too, mysql, postgres, sqsLite 10:56:22 <gynterk> does anyone know good freeware socket workbench ? 10:56:37 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-16-82.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:57:14 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-75-216.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 10:57:22 *** raimar2 [~hawk@p5489DAE9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:58:04 <gynterk> whats the address for master server anyway :P ? 10:59:17 <gynterk> and good thing about haXe is 10:59:25 <gynterk> it's compatible with flash 10:59:33 <gynterk> that means live stats graphs would be possible 10:59:47 *** Alltaken [~chatzilla@121-72-235-8.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.7/2007091417]] 11:00:59 <gynterk> hmm 11:01:12 <gynterk> what port it uses for those udp packets? 11:02:11 <Ammler> 3978? 11:02:35 <Ammler> !openttd port 11:02:37 <_42_> Ammler: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advsertise) communication (outbound) 11:02:39 <Ammler> !openttd ports 11:03:00 <gynterk> !openttd masterserver 11:03:47 <Ammler> hmm, why do you need masterserver? 11:03:54 <Ammler> i guess its master.openttd.org 11:04:23 *** raimar3 [~hawk@p5489D027.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:04:49 <dihedral> gynterk: what kind of stats are you looking for 11:05:20 <gynterk> nah I'm not looking 11:05:25 <gynterk> i wanna write ones in haXe 11:05:28 <gynterk> since I'm bored 11:05:39 <gynterk> but is eol \r\n for each packet ? 11:05:59 <dihedral> each packet has a certain amount of data 11:06:28 <dihedral> you dont stop reading until you have that data 11:06:45 <gynterk> i mean writing 11:07:13 <dihedral> have a look at the code :-) 11:07:49 <gynterk> is it hard to say :D ? 11:09:09 <dihedral> it is the easiest way to find out :-) 11:09:20 <dihedral> and not that hard to read 11:09:34 <gynterk> i know you know :D 11:10:06 <gynterk> btw about those packets, where should I get those constants, from source again :D ? 11:10:32 <dihedral> http://openttdlib.dihedral.de/browser/trunk/includes/OpenTTDLib.php#L641 11:10:42 <dihedral> the constants resolve to integer values... 11:12:05 <dihedral> http://openttdlib.dihedral.de/browser/trunk/includes/OpenTTDLibPacket.php#L23 11:12:34 <gynterk> thanks 11:12:42 <gynterk> but about that history thing 11:12:53 <gynterk> anyone up to write a patch for it ? 11:13:07 <dihedral> what history thing? you mean keeping logs? 11:13:11 <gynterk> yes 11:13:16 <gynterk> logs of everything 11:13:20 <gynterk> for makin statistics 11:13:37 <gynterk> like when train reached to station, how much was profit and so on 11:13:54 <dihedral> you cannot get that data via udp packets 11:13:56 <gynterk> when train created what were settings etc, train changes, crashes and so on 11:14:08 <gynterk> i know 11:14:17 <gynterk> that requires .patch to OpenTTD 11:14:34 <dihedral> well - i dont think you want to get that messy with OpenTTD code :-D 11:20:13 *** abraxa_ [~abraxa@pD95FE9F2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:23:11 <SpComb> you could log all the network multiplayer actions, although I'm not sure if things like trains reaching a station cause those 11:26:58 *** lolman [~lolman@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 11:28:03 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 11:28:07 <dihedral> i doubt it SpComb 11:28:25 *** FlowaPowa [~FlowaPowa@4va54-4-82-244-103-144.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: FlowaPowa] 11:28:28 <SpComb> you could rewrite the game engine in haxe... 11:28:39 <gynterk> not a good idea :D 11:28:40 <SpComb> then it could connect to any OpenTTD server as a spectator and log it :) 11:28:54 <gynterk> wait a sec 11:28:57 <gynterk> hmm 11:28:59 <gynterk> :D 11:30:41 <dihedral> add additional output to the console and get autopilot to read that data :-D 11:31:18 <gynterk> but 11:31:22 *** FlowaPowa [~FlowaPowa@4va54-4-82-244-103-144.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 11:31:30 <gynterk> the sent packet to server should just look like 0 ? 11:33:30 <dihedral> nope 11:33:37 <dihedral> missing the packet length there 11:33:39 <dihedral> :-) 11:34:22 <gynterk> how should raw packet look then :P ? 11:36:45 *** FlowaPowa [~FlowaPowa@4va54-4-82-244-103-144.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: FlowaPowa] 11:39:18 <gynterk> ah 11:39:22 <gynterk> size is first 2 bytes ? 11:40:03 *** Amixwoktest [Michal@cm-84.208.152.166.chello.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:43:17 <dihedral> yep 11:46:21 <gynterk> hmm 11:46:24 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-89-217-49-129.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 11:46:25 <gynterk> can't find where size is set 11:46:31 <gynterk> ah 11:46:31 <gynterk> ofc 11:46:36 <gynterk> preparetosend 11:48:40 <SpComb> http://misc.marttila.de/browser/pyottd/udp.py <-- python queryer à la construct 11:59:28 <gynterk> i still can't get it :S 11:59:30 <gynterk> wtf 11:59:34 <gynterk> I'm dumb today 12:02:48 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by Peer Gynt] 12:03:21 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 12:05:31 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has quit [] 12:06:10 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 12:07:32 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:10:10 <gynterk> is this packet in hex? 12:10:21 <gynterk> like 000303 for UDP_SERVER_DETAIL_INFO? 12:11:14 <dihedral> gynterk: http://openttdlib.dihedral.de/browser/trunk/includes/OpenTTDLibPacket.php#L130 ( $d is a simple integer ) 12:11:18 *** dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-057-242-177.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.7/2007091417]] 12:23:33 <gynterk> if i send 000303 it says connection error.. 12:24:47 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.] 12:27:45 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by Peer Gynt] 12:29:58 *** __minime__ [~minime@81.0.223.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:34:25 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@xdsl-81-173-249-136.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 12:34:57 <gynterk> i can't send any packets oo 3978 12:34:59 <gynterk> to * 12:35:56 *** Mucht_ [~Mucht@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd 12:50:27 <SpComb> gynterk: it's a binary protocol 12:51:03 <SpComb> it's "\Ã00\x03\x03" for UDP_SERVER_DETAIL_INFO (is that the correct endian?) 12:51:16 <gynterk> should be 030003 12:51:18 <gynterk> afaik 12:51:29 <gynterk> at least WPE showed me this packed when i logged from game 12:52:25 *** Mucht_ [~Mucht@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 12:52:39 <gynterk> x is 5c ? 12:52:44 <gynterk> Ânah 12:52:46 <gynterk> wait a sec 12:52:48 <gynterk> whats that x? 12:58:41 <gynterk> but 12:59:04 <gynterk> when I make server in my machine, and use Socket Workbench to connect localhost:3978 it'll return error 13:00:42 <gynterk> server forefully rejects my connection 13:00:46 <gynterk> force * 13:02:31 <gynterk> if i connect to 3979 i can see the chat :P 13:06:01 <gynterk> anyone ? 13:07:13 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a41662.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 13:07:14 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 13:07:22 <gynterk> anyone ? 13:07:36 <gynterk> i'm gona cry soon 13:09:03 <gynterk> i have OpenTTD server running but script says 82.165.254.161 13:09:05 <gynterk> fk 13:09:12 <gynterk> script says Failed to connect on localhost:3378 13:10:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> but it's 3978 13:10:30 <gynterk> omfg 13:11:36 <gynterk> still same... 13:12:50 <gynterk> whats server_bind_ip = ? 13:13:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> if you have multiple network devices 13:13:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> you can choose the one your server listens to 13:13:32 <gynterk> ah ok 13:13:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> you should usually not need this 13:13:44 <gynterk> but still can't get data via 3078 13:13:49 <gynterk> 3978 * 13:13:55 <gynterk> odd 13:14:01 <gynterk> windows firewall is turned off too 13:14:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> maybe you should turn windows off :p 13:14:28 <gynterk> communication via 3979 works 13:15:04 <Bjarni> <gynterk> i'm gona cry soon 13:15:04 <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause2> maybe you should turn windows off :p 13:15:04 <Bjarni> I think Eddi|zuHause2 found a solution to avoid crying ;D 13:15:04 <Bjarni> <gynterk> windows firewall is turned off too 13:15:13 <Bjarni> huh... 13:15:22 <Bjarni> looks like a line overtook another line 13:15:25 <SpComb> Logs: http://spbot.marttila.de:8120/logs/oftc-ottd (old: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd ) 13:15:25 <Bjarni> !logs 13:15:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> looks out of order here, too ;) 13:16:01 <gynterk> but still 13:16:10 <gynterk> any solutions why I can't get data via 3978 ? 13:16:38 <Bjarni> same issue in the log 13:16:52 * Bjarni wonders how this happened 13:17:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> maybe you used TCP instead of UDP? or you block UDP packages? 13:18:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> the fault must be on your end, Bjarni... 13:18:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> maybe you need to cry or something :p 13:18:43 <Bjarni> :P 13:19:03 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 13:19:04 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:19:24 <gynterk> how could i block UDP if i don't even have software to do it ? 13:19:48 <Bjarni> maybe those 3 lines were sent in a package of their own and the router decided on sending the last first (QoS is enabled) 13:20:13 <Bjarni> after all I don't have 1 GB/s internet access, so I can access the router faster than the router can send it 13:20:39 <gynterk> localhost 13:22:47 <Bjarni> http://shop.lego.com/ByTheme/Product.aspx?p=10143&cn=52&d=100 <-- cool 13:25:14 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-164-234.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ThePizzaKing] 13:25:57 <Rubidium> gynterk: a socket tool usually cannot send to UDP sockets... it assumes the socket to be TCP 13:26:28 <Rubidium> and because there is not TCP port listening at port 3978, it'll receive a connection error. 13:27:41 <gynterk> yes 13:27:49 <gynterk> i agree 13:29:38 *** Dark_Link^ [~glidegame@fw.dormnet.his.se] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )] 13:31:05 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B74642.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:33:52 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.159] has joined #openttd 13:34:19 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 13:36:17 *** Dark_Link^ [~glidegame@fw.dormnet.his.se] has joined #openttd 13:40:15 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77E96.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:42:26 <SpComb> ugh, parsing OpenTTD dates... 13:43:00 <Rubidium> what? They're simple ;) 13:43:17 <SpComb> anything that requires you to write your own date/time manipulation code is silly 13:43:18 *** abraxa_ [~abraxa@pD95FE9F2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:44:02 <glx> no need to write it, just convert the OTTD one to the language you are using 13:44:14 *** Greyscale [~Grey@user-5442e7d0.lns3-c8.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:46:33 <Rubidium> SpComb: means python doesn't understand the format... 13:46:42 <Rubidium> but what could be more complex than days since "epoch"? 13:48:13 <SpComb> aha, datetime.date actually does have a .fromordinal() where 1 = Jan 1st 1AD 13:48:44 <gynterk> does the server send me binary data? 13:49:11 <SpComb> what does a value of 1 mean for OpenTTD? 13:49:18 <Rubidium> gynterk: depends on the kind of data 13:49:27 <Rubidium> SpComb: 1-1-0 IIRC 13:49:44 <Rubidium> 1th of January year 0 13:49:51 <gynterk> Rubidium: UDP_CLIENT_FIND_SERVER 13:50:00 <SpComb> so I need to subtract some magic number from it to compensate for the first year 13:50:12 <Rubidium> 366 or 365 13:51:04 *** dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-057-242-177.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 13:51:08 <SpComb> is year zero a leap year? 13:51:24 <ln-> year 0 didn't exist. 13:51:25 <dihedral> lol 13:51:55 <SpComb> ln-: then why does OpenTTD have a representation for it? :/& 13:52:02 <Rubidium> ln-: really... the Gregorian calendar wasn't invented back then 13:52:05 <Eddi|zuHause> apart from the fact that the calculation is 7 years off anyway 13:52:25 <SpComb> dihedral: trying to parse the date value using a python stdlib function that takes 1 = Jan 1st 1AD 13:52:40 <dihedral> at what times can i get a (kicked by server) message (apart from someone issuing rcon) 13:52:44 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: probably due to Julian calendar being changed to Gregorian 13:52:52 <Eddi|zuHause> the calculation when jesus was born was done by some monks in the 5th century 13:53:04 <Rubidium> dihedral: you cheating 13:53:06 <Eddi|zuHause> and it is known they were a few years off 13:53:21 <ln-> Rubidium: but the gregorian calendar does not have year 0. 13:53:27 <Eddi|zuHause> the julian->gregorian calendar thing just affected about 2 weeks 13:53:57 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: probably because they didn't want to affect it by 7 years and 2 weeks 13:54:03 <glx> 10 days disappeared IIRC 13:54:25 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: depends when the country switched 13:54:27 <ln-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_0 13:55:07 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: the julian calender was about 1 day off every 100 years 13:56:17 <dihedral> Rubidium: the copy and past patch... just found out 13:56:23 <dihedral> when spectating and trying to paste 13:56:45 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why the gregorian calender skips 3 leap years in every 400 years period 13:56:45 <Rubidium> poor soul... not my problem... 13:57:03 <dihedral> just thought i'd mention it :-) 13:57:49 <dihedral> i dont use it, someone else did and got kicked, and nobody was around who could have done that with rcon - so i was thinking perhaps someone got hold of the rcon pw 13:57:55 <dihedral> but that thankfully did not happen :-) 14:02:57 <SpComb> dihedral: http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/xml.php?api=search&type=grfidlist&q=6D620401,%204A430000,%20535A0501,%206D620004,%206D620601,%204A530101 14:03:15 <SpComb> I asked eis_os about the API, so he implemented that today 14:06:45 *** abraxa_ [~abraxa@pD95FE9F2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:06:56 *** abraxa_ [~abraxa@pD95FE9F2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:08:22 <SpComb> nope, it's apparently not that simple 14:08:53 <SpComb> is "the proleptic Gregorian ordinal, where January 1 of year 1 has ordinal 1" the same kind of thing that OpenTTD uses? 14:10:29 <Rubidium> that is a good question 14:10:52 <SpComb> the dates are almost right, but not quite 14:11:35 <Rubidium> what's "not quite"? 14:11:57 <gynterk> is day speed changeable from config ? 14:12:04 <Rubidium> no 14:12:14 <gynterk> but is it possible to make it changeable ? 14:12:16 *** FlowaPowa [~FlowaPowa@4va54-4-82-244-103-144.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 14:12:35 <SpComb> 1960-01-01 is 715875 in the protocol, and date(1960, 1, 1).toordinal() is 715510 14:12:38 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387C1C2.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 14:12:40 <Eddi|zuHause> there exists a daylength patch 14:12:58 <Rubidium> SpComb: what's the difference? 14:13:02 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: so you are 365 days off 14:13:02 <SpComb> hmm, that's 365 14:13:12 <Eddi|zuHause> and that tells you? 14:13:14 *** FlowaPowa [~FlowaPowa@4va54-4-82-244-103-144.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 14:13:15 <gynterk> 1 year off 14:13:18 <SpComb> closer than I thoguht, I must have typoed something when playing around with it earlier 14:14:06 *** FlowaPowa [~FlowaPowa@4va54-4-82-244-103-144.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 14:14:46 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387C1C2.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 14:19:06 <SpComb> heh, there's one server that's currently in May 12102 14:19:23 <SpComb> Python's date only handles years up to 9999, but I guess I'll be able to live with that 14:22:07 <Rubidium> ... where can I post bugreports for MyOTTD ;) 14:22:13 <SpComb> here 14:22:29 <SpComb> actually, there's a trac with a ticket management system, but I never look at it 14:22:48 <SpComb> and the 9999-12-31 thing isn't a bug, it's a documented limitation 14:22:52 <SpComb> 206.130.122.71:3979: 1950-2010 Hard !NoAir - 512x512 - 0.5.1 - date:[1950-01-01 @ 9999-12-31] 14:25:43 <Rubidium> it's a bug, because it doesn't obey OTTD's documented limitation! 14:26:24 * SpComb labels it wontfix, closes the bug report and blacklists Rubidium's IP range 14:27:26 <Rubidium> blacklisting as in ALL IP traffic? 14:27:28 <dihedral> SpComb: what is with that url? 14:27:52 <SpComb> dihedral: you can query GRFCrawler by GRFID and get back a bunch of info about those GRFs 14:28:04 <SpComb> useful for any kind of NewGRF listing 14:28:42 <dihedral> true - but i either query the game or a cache file.... 14:28:49 <dihedral> or the other way round 14:29:22 <gynterk> btw 14:29:40 <gynterk> does UDP_SERVER_DETAIL_INFO send ending year ? 14:29:57 <dihedral> no 14:30:39 <dihedral> you get http://openttdlib.dihedral.de/docs/OpenTTDLib/tutorial_OpenTTDLib.serverinfo.pkg.html this from an info packet 14:30:52 <dihedral> http://openttdlib.dihedral.de/docs/OpenTTDLib/tutorial_OpenTTDLib.serverdetail.pkg.html this from a detail packet 14:31:08 <SpComb> dihedral: GRFCrawler gives you screenshots, download URLs, Author info, etc 14:31:57 <dihedral> nice... 14:32:03 <dihedral> yes - ok - that might be worth it :-D 14:32:29 <dihedral> thank you SpComb 14:32:38 <dihedral> i'll get it into OpenTTDLib :-) 14:33:04 *** Deathmaker [~Miranda@dslb-082-083-233-220.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 14:33:58 <Rubidium> dihedral: how does it handle "old" versions of the packets? 14:34:06 <Rubidium> or rather, does it handle them? 14:34:41 <SpComb> what are the different vehicle/station types? Train, Truck, Bus, Plane, Ship? 14:34:47 <SpComb> I mean, in what order are they? 14:38:14 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd 14:41:50 *** KouDy [~KouDy@85.207.64.178] has joined #openttd 14:45:59 *** raimar2 [~hawk@p5489DAE9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:53:09 <SpComb> ok, got DetailsInfo working, now for NewGrfsInfo 14:55:52 <dihedral> Rubidium: start here: http://openttdlib.dihedral.de/browser/trunk/includes/OpenTTDLib.php#L641 15:00:08 <dihedral> though i dont catch version in PacketServerDetailInfo 15:02:09 *** Deathmaker [~Miranda@dslb-082-083-233-220.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:22:57 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-75-216.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:27:36 *** novotv6 [novotv6@pc404-37.feld.cvut.cz] has joined #openttd 15:28:44 *** Mark [~Mark@86.84.7.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:28:48 *** novotv6 is now known as Vikthor 15:30:15 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77E96.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:31:21 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77E96.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:31:36 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77E96.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:31:39 *** nzvip [~svip@192.38.109.188] has joined #openttd 15:31:39 <SpComb> http://pb.marttila.de/170 <-- http://myottd.marttila.de/browser/trunk/daemon/udp.py 15:32:04 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77E96.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:32:16 <SpComb> should contain full support for the UDP protocol 15:36:05 <dihedral> why are you hardcoding grf id's and md5sums? 15:36:14 <dihedral> i mean into the code itself? 15:37:52 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77E96.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:39:00 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77E96.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:39:27 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77E96.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:39:54 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77E96.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:39:55 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77E96.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:40:21 *** FlowaPowa [~FlowaPowa@4va54-4-82-244-103-144.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: FlowaPowa] 15:41:10 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77E96.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:41:11 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77E96.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:41:26 *** FlowaPowa [~FlowaPowa@4va54-4-82-244-103-144.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 15:43:46 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-193-46-fixip.tiscali.ch] has joined #openttd 15:46:22 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77E96.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:46:23 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77E96.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:46:52 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77E96.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:48:22 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77E96.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 15:48:34 <Belugas> dihedral, who are you asking the question? 15:48:49 <dihedral> SpComb 15:49:00 <dihedral> but nevermind 15:49:06 <Belugas> he does not 15:49:19 <Belugas> the code is in udp.py 15:49:24 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77E96.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:50:11 <dihedral> right - then i was looking at the wrong thing 15:50:40 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@84.138.117.64] has joined #openttd 15:50:46 <skidd13> hi 15:52:05 *** Vikthor [novotv6@pc404-37.feld.cvut.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:53:28 *** FlowaPowa [~FlowaPowa@4va54-4-82-244-103-144.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:55:48 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77E96.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:34:21 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@84.138.117.64] has left #openttd [] 16:42:32 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host240-239-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 16:42:39 <Wolf01> hello 16:43:35 <gynterk> lo 16:43:53 <SpComb> dihedral: the first site is just the output of the script, which is a bit python-ish 16:44:05 <dihedral> :-P 16:44:49 <SpComb> but roughly 300 lines of code to implement an asyncronous client for the OpenTTD UDP protocol 16:44:54 <Ailure> hmm 16:45:17 <SpComb> and it didn't take me very long either, although I did copy the detail and newgrf structure from your PHP code 16:46:21 *** Greyscale [~Grey@user-5442e7d0.lns3-c8.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:00:33 <dihedral> your welcome :-) 17:02:51 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 17:12:51 * SpComb ponders some big changes to the MyOTTD code/structure/site 17:13:19 <SpComb> I need to make the server info page more viewable, a bunch of random-width tables below eachother with <h1>s in between smells 17:13:25 <SpComb> I was pondering some kind of tabbed interface 17:14:06 <SpComb> dihedral: where did you get the little icons/images that you use in OpenTTDLib? 17:15:12 <dihedral> i took a screenshot and edited them 17:15:17 <dihedral> feel free to take them :-) 17:15:23 <SpComb> how are they stored in OpenTTD itself? 17:15:31 <dihedral> i have no idea what so ever 17:15:51 <SpComb> I can't find any resource files, they must be stored as tables in the source code or something 17:16:22 <gynterk> SpComb: tables? 17:16:27 <gynterk> css is your friend 17:18:17 <dihedral> lol gynterk .... 17:18:28 <dihedral> read that line again to the end 17:18:55 <SpComb> I guess the images are stored in openttd.grf 17:19:01 <SpComb> what's the license on them? 17:19:25 <gynterk> [20:16:16] <SpComb> I need to make the server info page more viewable, a bunch of random-width tables below eachother with <h1>s in between smells 17:19:28 <SpComb> dihedral: can you give me a .zip/.tar.gz of the images? 17:19:41 *** Darkebie [~dkb@d5153D5CD.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:19:45 <gynterk> not the resource one :P 17:19:47 <SpComb> gynterk: indeed, I want to replace the tables with something else 17:19:51 <gynterk> css 17:19:54 <gynterk> divs 17:19:56 <gynterk> spans 17:20:01 <gynterk> feel free to go :D 17:20:08 <SpComb> yes, but it won't magically make itself look nice 17:20:10 <gynterk> fancy blinking buttons 17:20:21 <SpComb> besides, there's plenty of things that you still need tables for 17:20:28 <gynterk> like ? 17:20:28 <SpComb> like, I imagine, the list of companies 17:20:29 <dihedral> gynterk: tables are needed at times 17:20:37 <dihedral> an actual table!! 17:20:41 <dihedral> http://openttdlib.dihedral.de/browser/trunk/images 17:20:50 <gynterk> tou can list companies in spans for example 17:20:51 <gynterk> or <p> 17:21:03 <SpComb> in such a way that the various bits of info line up nicely? 17:21:06 <dihedral> all the "\d_vst_[dark|light].png" 17:21:21 <SpComb> at the point where you give each piece a class and set fixed widths for them all, you could just as well use a table 17:21:31 <dihedral> gynterk: have a look at http://openttdlib.dihedral.de/wiki/LiveDemo 17:21:47 <dihedral> and tell me again you never need tables :-) 17:21:52 <gynterk> SpComb its possible to write css good as with tables 17:21:54 <gynterk> but takes time 17:22:11 <dihedral> gynterk: you use tables when your are actually needing a table!! 17:22:20 <SpComb> I use divs for the whole-page layout, but things like a list of companies is best done with a table 17:22:30 <gynterk> dihedral: agree, and you need table there thou 17:22:33 <gynterk> would be the best way 17:22:42 <gynterk> so i conq myself :P 17:22:48 <gynterk> tables on that stat page are good :P 17:22:56 <SpComb> the only tables on http://terom.myottd.lan:9160/ are those two that you can see 17:23:02 <dihedral> you like talking before thinking - i do the same - i think Rubidium here could sing a song of that :-P 17:23:17 <gynterk> tables are ment to list data 17:23:23 <gynterk> and thats what they do there 17:23:25 <SpComb> and a list of companies is a list of data 17:23:28 <gynterk> not to design a web page 17:23:30 <gynterk> :P 17:24:05 <SpComb> dihedral: but, an archive of the icons? 17:25:09 *** David_McMahon [~fake@dsl-fixed-77-44-48-144.interdsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:26:11 <dihedral> download a package of OpenTTDLib... 17:26:21 <SpComb> good point 17:26:25 <dihedral> :-P 17:28:50 <gynterk> next version of openttd server inf packet should contain ending year too... 17:30:23 <Rubidium> it's not as if there's space for that 17:31:17 <dihedral> how much space is left Rubidium (i know it depends on server name etc...) but roughly? 17:31:44 <Rubidium> something in the order of a few bytes 17:32:06 <Rubidium> worst case that is 17:32:28 <Rubidium> but that should be obvious the only "way" to consider it when wanting to add new stuff 17:32:45 <SpComb> what are the vst_light.gif's for? 17:32:55 <dihedral> but it seems like the DETAIL packet holds a lot more data 17:33:27 <dihedral> SpComb: one is for a light image one is a dark image, depending on your background etc 17:33:45 <Rubidium> the GRFs take quite a lot of data space 17:33:54 <dihedral> true 17:34:12 <dihedral> is there anyway grf could be moved completely to it's own request? 17:34:53 <Rubidium> that requires two queries to each server and *much* more code to handle dropped packets and such 17:35:09 <dihedral> right 17:38:17 <gynterk> how many status page scripts are there already :D ? 17:38:22 <gynterk> billion ? 17:38:50 <Rubidium> at least 3, of which 2 are in PHP and one in Python 17:39:15 <gynterk> hmm k 17:39:21 <Rubidium> then there's the masterserver (or rather the update component of the serverlist), which is written in C++ (so it's technically not a script) 17:39:37 <gynterk> I'll write that log patch if i get a time 17:39:51 <gynterk> in what openttd is writte in ? 17:40:00 <Rubidium> C++ 17:40:02 <gynterk> good 17:40:09 <Rubidium> well... C+ is more like it 17:41:23 *** David_McMahon [~fake@dsl-fixed-77-44-48-144.interdsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:42:53 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A43614.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:48:43 <gynterk> oh and it would be good if you could put signals in stations... 17:48:56 <gynterk> you can fit 2 trains on each long station lane 17:49:42 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl7-183-222.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 17:51:03 <Digitalfox> TrueBrain: the developers blog is giving errors http://blog.openttd.org/ 17:52:15 *** Dark_Link^ [~glidegame@fw.dormnet.his.se] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )] 17:52:50 <glx> Digitalfox: known 17:53:01 <Digitalfox> ok glx :) 17:53:16 <TrueBrain> Digitalfox: is because we switched back to Apache, as Lighttpd tends to get the server on its knees 17:53:50 <Digitalfox> ok TrueBrain, i didn't know you were aware :) 17:54:08 <TrueBrain> I am always happy if people report problems :) 17:54:26 <dihedral> did you look at the 0production stuff TrueBrain :-) 17:54:35 <TrueBrain> @kick dihedral go fetch :p 17:54:48 <dihedral> :-P 17:55:02 <TrueBrain> here Digitalfox 17:55:04 <dihedral> thanks for the hint 17:55:31 <Digitalfox> It's working again TrueBrain, thanks for fixing ;) 17:56:07 <TrueBrain> glx: and php in devs.openttd.org works also 17:56:46 <Digitalfox> One more question is newports brach being merged for 0.6 or the newairports aren't ready yet to be included in 0.6? 17:56:50 <glx> not for my account ;) 17:57:59 <TrueBrain> how about now? 17:58:17 <glx> works now 17:58:21 <glx> thanks 17:58:33 <TrueBrain> np :) 17:58:36 <TrueBrain> sorry it took so long ;) 17:59:05 <gynterk> is there a list of translators somewhere ? 18:02:49 <gynterk> oh and could it be possible to make train stop in station only if this station produces the materials which train has a FREE cargo space to carry 18:06:33 <dihedral> are any grfs known to (when loaded) be a bit of a cpu eater? 18:08:27 <Sionide> gynterk, you can put non-stop orders in so trains will go straight through stations not in their order list 18:09:48 <gynterk> yes 18:09:58 <gynterk> but if TTDP nonstop handling isn't enabled in server 18:10:03 <gynterk> then this doesn't work for me 18:10:18 <Sionide> ah 18:11:17 <Ammler> omg, there are server without set this option? 18:11:51 <Ammler> gynterk: speak with the admin... 18:12:32 <Ammler> first thing, when you join a server is checking the settings 18:12:58 <gynterk> well sad 18:13:05 <gynterk> but admin speaks only german 18:13:05 <gynterk> :D 18:13:13 <Ammler> oh, and greetings the others... 18:13:54 <Ammler> say to him: "Schalt bitte TTDParch non-stop hÀndling ein, danke." 18:15:13 *** abraxa_ [~abraxa@pD95FE9F2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:16:16 <gynterk> but still 18:16:21 <Ammler> not sure, but it could be "new_nonstop true" 18:16:23 <gynterk> I wonder how hard is to make that log patch 18:17:24 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-156-161.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 18:17:38 <Ammler> and most non-english guys do understand more then one language... 18:18:10 <gynterk> I understand German 18:18:16 <gynterk> but speaking is a problem :D 18:18:59 <Ammler> oh yeah, I understand, same with me and my english 18:21:53 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by Peer Gynt] 18:22:53 *** gynterk [~gynter@88-196-200-147-dsl.rkv.estpak.ee] has quit [] 18:27:51 *** gynterk [~gynter@88-196-200-147-dsl.rkv.estpak.ee] has joined #openttd 18:32:16 *** boekabart [~bdb@ip218-114-173-82.adsl2.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 18:38:44 <SpComb> where could I dig up the RGB values of the various company colours? 18:39:56 <SpComb> although crap, the details packet doesn't include the company colour 18:48:20 *** Wezz6400_ [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-234.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 18:48:37 *** abraxa_ [~abraxa@pD95FE9F2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:48:52 *** Wezz6400 is now known as Guest802 18:48:52 *** Wezz6400_ is now known as Wezz6400 18:50:01 *** Greyscale [~Greyscale@host86-131-39-100.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 18:54:13 *** Guest802 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-234.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:55:06 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387C1C2.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:55:22 <gynterk> whats screenshot shortcut? 18:56:36 <Ammler> ctrl+s 18:58:46 *** boekabart [~bdb@ip218-114-173-82.adsl2.versatel.nl] has left #openttd [] 19:02:32 <glx> ctrl+g for a giant one :) 19:02:45 <glx> though I don't recommend to do it 19:11:41 *** Nite [~anonym@chello062178193175.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 19:13:08 <Ammler> glx: is there a shortcut for screenshot without toolbar? 19:13:46 <glx> dunno 19:13:46 <Nite> its written beside the screenshot option 19:14:14 <Nite> obviously: "strg+s" 19:16:04 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl7-183-222.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Bye] 19:17:33 <Ammler> Nite, thats with the toolbar etc. 19:18:15 <glx> there's a console command for the without toolbar one 19:18:41 <Nite> kk i thought without using the toolbar S:-) 19:18:59 <glx> and console commands don't have shortcuts 19:19:15 <Ammler> glx: yeah, thats why I was wondering if there is also a shortcut 19:32:38 *** Greyscale [~Greyscale@host86-131-39-100.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:33:02 *** Greyscale [~Grey@host86-131-39-100.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:44:23 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 19:47:42 <dihedral> there seems to be an issue with ttrs grf in 11194 19:48:07 <SpComb> new layout on MyOTTD 19:48:18 <SpComb> it's kind of a mix between the servers.openttd.org and dihedral's one 19:48:28 *** egladil [~egladil@83.233.184.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:50:53 <Rubidium> dihedral: boring... 19:51:03 <dihedral> just mentioning it :-) 19:52:11 <Rubidium> like... way too late to fix 19:52:39 <SpComb> dihedral: so what's your layout for NewGRFs? Need to take a look at that as well :P 19:52:59 <dihedral> Rubidium: so you know of it or is it just too late in the day 19:53:06 <glx> <dihedral> there seems to be an issue with ttrs grf in 11194 <-- try 11196 :) 19:53:18 <dihedral> i went back to 11152 19:53:28 <dihedral> i'll try 11196 tomorrow 19:54:17 <dihedral> SpComb: NewGRFs are a little nasty :-) 19:55:15 *** Mark [~Mark@86.84.7.53] has joined #openttd 19:56:26 *** Nite [~anonym@chello062178193175.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has left #openttd [] 19:58:18 *** UnderBuilder [~chatzilla@168.226.104.153] has joined #openttd 19:58:19 <SpComb> dihedral: do you have a layout for them? 19:58:29 <dihedral> sure 19:58:35 <dihedral> check my files :-) 19:59:26 <UnderBuilder> heh, I wanna see a remake of RCT, the one I own doesn't work on XP 20:00:09 <dihedral> SpComb: sending the request: http://openttdlib.dihedral.de/browser/trunk/includes/OpenTTDLib.php#L507 20:00:22 <dihedral> reading the answer packet: http://openttdlib.dihedral.de/browser/trunk/includes/OpenTTDLib.php#L642 20:00:48 <dihedral> be aware of the endiannes :-) 20:06:40 *** Dark_Link^ [~glidegame@fw.dormnet.his.se] has joined #openttd 20:09:34 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7711E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:09:44 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7711E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:10:00 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7711E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:10:09 *** egladil [~egladil@83.233.184.124] has joined #openttd 20:11:59 *** UnderBuilder [~chatzilla@168.226.104.153] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.7/2007091417]] 20:29:31 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A5558.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:29:44 <skidd13> hi 20:31:41 *** Darkebie [~dkb@d5153D5CD.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: VIP Gill ;D] 20:35:58 *** egladil [~egladil@83.233.184.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:38:59 *** De_Ghost [~De_Ghost@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:41:01 *** De_Ghost [~De_Ghost@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 20:44:18 <SmatZ> hi skidd13 20:45:54 *** egladil [~egladil@83.233.184.124] has joined #openttd 20:48:14 *** Desolator [~Desolator@86.122.153.85] has joined #openttd 20:48:22 <SpComb> dihedral: I meant the HTML layout, but I've got that as well now 20:48:37 * SpComb is takeing a break from MyOTTD and actually, like, playing on his server 20:48:38 *** Desolator is now known as Guest812 20:48:52 <dihedral> i use pear's HTML_Template_Sigma 20:49:08 <SpComb> someone want to play with me? Info at terom.myottd.net :) 20:49:11 *** Guest812 [~Desolator@86.122.153.85] has quit [] 20:49:11 *** ActySofts [~Desolator@86.122.153.85] has joined #openttd 20:49:11 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A43614.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:28 *** ActySofts [~Desolator@86.122.153.85] has left #openttd [] 20:50:17 <SpComb> need to add something that'll show you the difficulty/patch settings on the server 20:51:02 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:52:39 *** ActySofts [~Desolator@86.122.153.85] has joined #openttd 20:53:55 <ActySofts> -NickServ- Desolatr is not online. The nickname may be freely used and does not 20:53:55 <ActySofts> -NickServ- require regain or ghost. 20:53:55 <ActySofts> * Desolator :Nickname is already in use. 20:53:56 <ActySofts> ?! 20:54:10 <SpComb> Desolatr != Desolator 20:54:32 <ActySofts> yeah, but it showed Desolator in the text box... 20:54:35 <Prof_Frink> Desolatr == Desolator 2.0 (beta) 20:54:43 *** ActySofts is now known as Desolator 20:55:35 <Desolator> LOL 20:55:35 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 20:58:39 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has quit [] 20:59:52 <Wolf01> 'night 20:59:55 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host240-239-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:00:41 *** Osai^2 is now known as Osai 21:10:58 *** egladil [~egladil@83.233.184.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:13:07 <SpComb> someone really needs to optimize the way that the trucks go into a cargo depo thing to load 21:17:44 <Rubidium> that's called drive-through road stops 21:19:15 <SpComb> 0.5.3/trunk? 21:19:28 *** egladil [~egladil@83.233.184.124] has joined #openttd 21:23:36 *** Desolator [~Desolator@86.122.153.85] has quit [Quit: I'm out for now] 21:24:58 <Rubidium> trunk 21:27:10 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd 21:49:56 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:50:35 *** Mark is now known as Mark|ASLEEP 21:52:22 *** peterbrett [~peter@ptbb2b.girton.cam.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 21:53:34 *** David_McMahon [~fake@dsl-fixed-77-44-48-144.interdsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:00:03 <ln-> 50 years since germans entered the space. 22:04:03 *** Grey [~Greyscale@host86-131-39-100.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 22:04:25 *** Ben_1 is now known as _Ben_ 22:05:38 *** Greyscale [~Grey@host86-131-39-100.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:08:23 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:08:39 *** Ammller [~Ammler@adsl-89-217-49-129.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 22:08:53 *** Zr40 [~zr40@2001:960:786:0:21b:63ff:fe9e:ab24] has joined #openttd 22:10:20 *** KouDy [~KouDy@85.207.64.178] has quit [Quit: Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com] 22:13:29 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-193-46-fixip.tiscali.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:15:03 <Eddi|zuHause> germans entered a lot of things... 22:15:51 * peterbrett resists the urge to make one of several politically-incorrect replies 22:17:06 *** Zr40 [~zr40@2001:960:786:0:21b:63ff:fe9e:ab24] has quit [Quit: Zr40] 22:20:41 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A5558.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 22:22:44 *** peterbrett [~peter@ptbb2b.girton.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:25:32 <Bjarni> hehe... Eddi|zuHause made it too easy with that sentence 22:25:59 <Bjarni> one could mention Poland, something sexual or something.... do think before talking :P 22:25:59 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i would really have liked to hear that... 22:26:41 <Eddi|zuHause> of course i thought... that's why i made that statement so ambiguous ;) 22:26:50 <Bjarni> hehe 22:27:06 <Bjarni> actually Poland wasn't the worst you guys entered 22:27:12 <Bjarni> it was worse with Norway 22:27:23 <Bjarni> and Denmark 22:28:18 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB7AFC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai] 22:32:08 <Sacro> sexual? 22:33:23 *** elmex [~elmex@e180065018.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34:18 *** David_McMahon [~fake@dsl-fixed-77-44-48-144.interdsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:40:29 *** egladil [~egladil@83.233.184.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:46:45 *** AntB [~AntB-UK@81.140.71.226] has joined #openttd 22:47:23 *** De_Ghost [~De_Ghost@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:48:46 *** De_Ghost [~De_Ghost@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 22:53:00 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-234.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: bedtime reboot] 22:55:59 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-234.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 22:57:58 *** egladil [~egladil@83.233.184.124] has joined #openttd 23:05:56 <Bjarni> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Ana.b747.pokemon.arp.750pix.jpg <-- LOL 23:06:58 <Phazorx> and stuardesses probably have cat years and mangesque uniforms... 23:07:10 <Bjarni> "cat years"... 23:07:17 <Phazorx> cat ears 23:07:20 <Bjarni> :P 23:08:25 <Bjarni> err.. what is mangesque? 23:08:59 <glx> school uniform ;) 23:09:03 <Phazorx> mangae + "-esque" 23:09:16 <Bjarni> ahh 23:09:22 <Bjarni> glx made sense 23:09:27 <Phazorx> sometihng that looks like it came off anime screen themed 23:09:34 <Bjarni> hehe 23:09:40 <Phazorx> he made different sense from what i had in mind tho 23:09:43 <Bjarni> you mean sort of like a maid cafe thingie? :) 23:09:55 <Phazorx> depends on manga i guess 23:10:09 <Phazorx> could be ghost in shell sci-fi 23:10:19 <Phazorx> or some super dolls or whatever 23:10:33 <Phazorx> not like i watch tv and enjoy sit com anime 23:10:48 <Bjarni> you only act like you do :P 23:10:59 <Bjarni> and then you make a point that you don't 23:11:04 <Bjarni> sounds like denial to me :P 23:11:28 <Phazorx> it's all aboit rpeception for you 23:11:35 <Phazorx> however i do know what point i was trying to make 23:11:42 <Phazorx> and it seems a bit different 23:11:55 <Phazorx> but i tihnk glx idea could fit fine there too 23:12:27 <Bjarni> do your keyboard lag once in a while? 23:12:32 <Phazorx> and they probably screem at highest peach of their voives once in a while as they start a fight with random passengers 23:12:55 <Phazorx> Bjarni: i ithnk i fail to read what i type quite often :) 23:13:06 <Bjarni> ithnk... 23:13:09 <Phazorx> and keysrokes come kidna close to each other 23:13:20 <Bjarni> are you drunk? 23:13:25 <Phazorx> not yet :) 23:13:34 <Phazorx> this is quite usual me 23:13:36 <Bjarni> are you on some sort of medication? 23:14:08 <Phazorx> i care to be comprehandlable only... order of letters matters only on some cases, just having them usual enough for bing able to understand :) 23:14:19 <Phazorx> heh nope, this is a "normal" as i ever get tho :) 23:14:29 <Bjarni> then maybe you should be 23:14:42 <Phazorx> wont help most likely :) 23:15:04 <Phazorx> thanks for caring btw :) 23:15:16 <Bjarni> sleeping pills would help 23:15:27 <Bjarni> then you wouldn't write garbled in the channel right now 23:15:51 <Phazorx> considering time zone and fact that i woke up 5-6 hrs ago that doea not make much sense 23:16:36 <Bjarni> right 23:16:46 <Bjarni> you are on the other side of the Atlantic 23:16:53 <Bjarni> then you could be right 23:16:54 <Phazorx> quite right 23:17:03 <Bjarni> this is normal spelling in your area 23:17:21 * Sacro whistles 23:17:23 <Phazorx> "my area" actualy uses different language :) 23:17:32 <Bjarni> I know 23:17:39 <Bjarni> we don't call it English either 23:17:55 <Phazorx> i'd call it russian actualy :) 23:18:25 <Bjarni> ... 23:18:35 <Bjarni> and you woke up 5-6 hours ago... 23:18:52 <Phazorx> that is correct 23:18:55 <Bjarni> Are you in Kanchatka or something? 23:19:40 <Phazorx> kaMchatka then, but no i'm in continatal north america, hwoever where i am has little to do with "my area" :) 23:20:33 *** egladil_ibook [~egladil@83.233.184.124] has joined #openttd 23:21:09 <Bjarni> Russian in North America... 23:21:20 <Bjarni> damn you KGB spy 23:21:38 <Phazorx> i think it is called soemtihng else now 23:21:51 <Bjarni> you are supposed to say that 23:21:58 <Phazorx> FSB probably 23:21:58 <Bjarni> to confuse the public 23:22:03 *** egladil [~egladil@83.233.184.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:22:57 <Phazorx> hmm.. http://farm1.static.flickr.com/112/281802434_d68720a7b1_o.jpg that would be neat feature for ottd 23:23:29 <Bjarni> you can already use two engines 23:23:33 <Bjarni> and you can turn them around 23:23:38 <Phazorx> i meant curved bridge 23:24:28 *** nzvip [~svip@192.38.109.188] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:26:01 *** dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-057-242-177.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.7/2007091417]] 23:37:53 <Ammller> Phazorx: SmartZ is working on a patch for that 23:38:05 <Ammller> didn't you see that? 23:53:50 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 23:54:37 <huma> oh, curved bridge would be cool 23:54:44 <huma> Ammller: where is it? 23:55:31 <gynterk> in my back yard 23:55:37 <gynterk> waits for transporting 23:56:10 <Ammller> huma: there was a video and some screens some weeks ago 23:56:37 <huma> gynterk: ha ha 23:56:50 <gynterk> i know 23:56:55 <gynterk> i'm laughing too at the moment 23:58:56 <glx> Ammller: that was for tunnels 23:59:42 <Ammller> glx, tunnel and bridges are almost the same aren't they?