Log for #openttd on 4th October 2007:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:05  <Ammller> I thought, he showed us also a bridge on a screen
00:03:15  <gynterk> Does anyone have ttd company color codes in hex ?
00:03:18  <gynterk> or rgb
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00:03:34  <glx> the source has it :)
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00:04:45  <Phazorx> Ammller: didnt know
00:04:52  <Ammller> gynterk: but I would surch for player, not fo company in the source
00:05:05  <Phazorx> video i seen was for advanced tunnels
00:05:26  <Ammller> Phazorx: same is also for bridges
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00:05:32  <Phazorx> Ammller: interesting
00:05:42  <Phazorx> btw, can we have modified costs for everythign
00:05:45  <Phazorx> a grf with params
00:05:50  <Phazorx> simila to bippkabirds
00:05:55  <Phazorx> pikkabirds
00:06:06  <Ammller> yeah, why not?
00:06:18  <Phazorx> i tihnk it is good for coopete and rp games
00:06:28  <Phazorx> i want bridges to be at least 20x what they are now
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00:06:40  <Phazorx> cus IRL they are complex
00:06:58  <Phazorx> and tracks are bent/moved for better location of a bridge
00:07:05  <Phazorx> rather than putting a bridge where you want them
00:08:40  <Ammller> <--they are changed in pikkabirds grf
00:09:01  <Phazorx> but changed and fixed
00:09:07  <Phazorx> i'd like parametric GRF
00:09:10  <Phazorx> where you tune them
00:09:37  <Ammller> yeah, just show you, what you can change
00:10:23  <Phazorx> a patch tha counst tiles used by particular types of constructions would be ncie too
00:10:35  <Ammller> just look on my airmod, I changed also some of them...
00:10:46  <Phazorx> yeah i saw
00:10:59  <Phazorx> but your change is fixed as well as i recall
00:11:12  <Ammller> no
00:11:37  <Phazorx> i might have seen an older version then?
00:12:14  <glx> you can make the changes dependant on params
00:12:19  <Ammller> hmm, possible..
00:12:22  <glx> nfo allows that
00:13:25  <Phazorx> glx: yes we seen it done
00:13:39  <Phazorx> thgergos ship mod for example
00:15:11  <Phazorx> glx: aside of remaking involved grfs - would it be complex to add unload/load speed to engines/wagons?
00:16:33  <glx> what do you mean?
00:16:53  <Phazorx> a new parameter for vehicles
00:17:03  <Phazorx> cars/wagons/trucks/ships/aircrafts
00:17:11  <Phazorx> engine as well if it applies
00:17:19  <Phazorx> that controls how fast/slow they are laoded/unloaded
00:17:56  <Phazorx> it would make sense for RVs mostly
00:18:12  <glx> RVs are slow enough ;)
00:18:15  <Phazorx> modern trams not only have higher speed but also have more doors
00:18:21  <glx> no need to slow them more
00:18:27  <Phazorx> so they would be unloaded faster
00:18:31  <Phazorx> same goes for certain cars
00:18:38  <Sionide> eg. aircraft take ages to turn around at an airport, so should be slower...?
00:18:41  <Phazorx> like it is faster to unload containers than boxes
00:18:47  <Ammller> thats very easy to change with grfs
00:18:49  <Phazorx> Sionide: not exactly
00:18:55  <glx> gradual loading can simulate it
00:18:57  <Phazorx> 380 has 6 usable exits
00:19:03  <Phazorx> glx: to some limit
00:19:30  <Phazorx> glx: what i mean higher capacity sometimes comes with sacrifices
00:19:32  <Sionide> Phazorx, but the airport only has one walk-way thing they attach to the side of the plane...
00:19:38  <Phazorx> it loads more but it is slower
00:19:41  <Sionide> heh
00:19:55  * Sionide should be working
00:19:57  <Sionide> back to work
00:20:11  <Phazorx> and in some cases it would be more efficient to use smaller capacity but faster loading/unloading
00:20:32  <Phazorx> think about urban busess and long range intercity express
00:20:43  <Ammller> Phazorx: the trams are currently just coded wors
00:20:48  <glx> each vehicle type has its own gradual loading speed
00:20:59  <Phazorx> glx: oh really?
00:21:00  <Ammller> and of course the planes too
00:21:07  <Phazorx> how come it is like always proportyinal to capacity?
00:21:23  <Phazorx> and that does not appear anywhere in visible settings
00:21:33  <Phazorx> as well as in vehicle info
00:22:35  <glx>
00:22:40  <glx> bottom of this page
00:23:14  <Phazorx> so default are used for most GRFs?
00:23:16  <Ammller> glx: Phazorx means its a fault of OTTD :)
00:23:28  <Phazorx> fault?
00:24:27  <Phazorx> glx: as i can see it is possible but not displayed and mostly not used am i correct?
00:25:03  <glx> it is not shown, but I think many grfs use it
00:27:56  <gynterk> I can't find those colors...
00:27:57  <Phazorx> can it also be displayed somewhoe?
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00:28:18  <Phazorx> glx: another thing, applicable only to planes:
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00:29:19  <glx> there's a thread about that on tt-forums
00:29:51  <Phazorx> i'm askign about feasibility
00:30:10  <glx> well nothing is impossible :)
00:30:13  <Phazorx> especialy refitting with proprortions to range/capacity
00:31:58  <Grey> sleep now
00:32:02  <Grey> night!
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00:33:30  <gynterk> anyone?
00:33:36  <gynterk> where could colours be ?
00:33:41  <gynterk> player colours
00:37:44  <ln-> people should not be discriminated based on their colour.
00:39:07  * Sacro ignores ln- cos his nick is purple
00:39:10  <Sacro> hmm
00:39:44  <Sacro> night chaps
00:40:06  <gynterk> anyone?
00:40:08  <gynterk> colors?
00:40:51  <glx> all colors are in src/table/palettes.h
00:41:23  <gynterk> thanks
00:41:32  <glx> company colors are some of them
00:58:31  <gynterk> and how could i find right colors from there ?
01:00:18  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: belugas * r11198 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_commons.cpp newgrf_commons.h): -Fix: When industry override is not possible because it is already been overridden, mark the new candidate as not being an override
01:01:00  <_Ben_> I dought anybody would know this, as its rather outdated, but in the 32bpp full zoom build that egladil made back in march, does that support compnay colours?  I have some graphics in there with the images needed to make the company colours work, but they seem to be fixed as blue
01:02:09  <_Ben_> actually blue is irrelevent, as that is just the colour I rendered them as
01:04:48  <Belugas> gynterk, check here :
01:05:00  <Belugas> based on
01:05:39  <gynterk> thanks
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01:42:51  <Belugas> is there a cheat in ttdp like the money one in ottd?
01:45:25  <Belugas> yes... there is one... signcheat ...
01:45:36  <Belugas> now... how to activate that signcheat..
01:46:41  <DaleStan> Cht: Money $BIGNUM
01:46:41  <DaleStan> Or, if you want to undo it, Cht: Money $SMALLNUM
01:48:08  <Belugas> thanks.
01:48:10  <Belugas> but...
01:48:27  <Belugas> how and where do i enter these values?
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01:49:15  <DaleStan> In a sign.
01:49:28  <DaleStan> In the tree menu.
01:51:40  <Belugas> :D
01:51:42  <Belugas> wouhou!
01:51:50  <Belugas> Thanks DaleStan :)
01:52:40  <Belugas> by the way, is there any exception that would allow var 68 of industries to be accessed duringg cb28 ?
01:52:47  <Belugas> I doubt, not accroding to wiki
01:52:57  <Belugas> but... undocumented features,maybe?
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02:06:36  <ln-> but where is admiral 1138?
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02:16:21  <DaleStan> Belugas: IMO, 45, 67, and 68 should all also be available in CB28.
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02:36:18  <Belugas> DaleStan, should? does not say so :(
02:36:27  <Belugas> is it normal?
02:36:39  <Belugas> i'll check with the sources
02:37:02  <DaleStan> I suspect that the CB28 documentation was written before vars 45, 67, and 68 were added.
02:37:57  <DaleStan> I'm not sure how helpful the sources will be; the controlling factor is most likely whether the parts of the industry structure that those vars use have been initialized yet.
02:44:17  <Belugas> true, they are relatively recent additions
02:44:37  <Belugas> i guess i should ask csaboka tomorrow
02:45:30  <Belugas> it's strange that George uses them(at least 68 in ecstown beta2), as if he already knew he could do so
02:50:20  <Belugas> ottd version of 67-68 are a bit dependant of a real industry, and not a fake one
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02:54:48  <Belugas> good idea, glx...  me too, going to bed
02:54:50  <Belugas> night all
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05:48:10  <joosa> :q
05:48:51  <joosa> oops.
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06:27:32  <Desolator> can anyone recommend me a text editor ofr linux
06:27:35  <Desolator> *for
06:27:52  <Desolator> ?
06:29:36  * ThePizzaKing recommends vi
06:29:52  <Mucht> Desolator: using KDE or Gnome or just plain console?
06:30:05  <Desolator> using xfce ('im on xubuntu)
06:30:32  <Mucht> uh - no idea then ;-)
06:30:34  <Desolator> at least something that has features like notepad++
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06:44:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> gvim
06:44:42  <Desolator> only if it would appear in the application list >.>
06:44:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> or with a few kde libs you can use Kate
06:46:01  <Desolator> well I'm mostly looking for a source code editor, mostly like Notepad++
06:46:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> well... _I_ have "Vi IMproved" under "Editors"
06:46:54  <Desolator> I didn't..s I yanked it
06:46:57  <Desolator> *so
06:48:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> how about you trying google?
06:48:33  <Desolator> I tried looking on wikipedia
06:49:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> wikipedia is not a search engine...
06:49:19  <Desolator> ...
06:49:48  <Desolator> I tried looking for a suitable editor there
06:50:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, there are like two dozen editors out there with significant features...
06:51:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> if you can't find any of them, i can't help you either...
06:51:44  <Desolator> I guess I'll wait 'till notepad++ runs better under wine
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06:52:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> i really feel sorry for him...
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07:01:55  <Rubidium> notepad++ sucks
07:02:08  <Rubidium> it has totally rotten syntax highlighting for some languages
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07:02:25  <Rubidium> and it can't seem to open itself when opening a text file
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07:09:28  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11199 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_industries.cpp newgrf_spritegroup.h):
07:09:28  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Fix: variable 67 and 68 not working correctly.
07:09:28  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Refactor: some code so there is less code duplication.
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07:10:55  <dihedral> morning
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08:12:02  <gynterk> hey
08:12:10  <gynterk> any ideas how to resize multible png images ?
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08:13:15  <gynterk> nevermind
08:13:16  <gynterk> got
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08:18:05  <dihedral> gynterk: have a look at irfanview if you are using windows, or The Gimp on win/*nix
08:20:42  <gynterk> yeh
08:20:51  <gynterk> found my old irfan batch
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08:44:51  <Ailure> ok
08:44:58  <Ailure> wtf is up with the manual spamming
08:45:02  <Ailure> the wiki thing
08:45:33  <mcbane> tose vlad guy is crazy
08:45:36  <mcbane> *those
08:45:46  <boekabart> *this
08:46:02  <mcbane> heh ok
08:46:09  <mcbane> but he is crazy
08:46:13  <Ailure> vlad?
08:46:39  <boekabart> vlad tepes? Count Dracula? ;)
08:47:14  <mcbane> vc-labs
08:47:17  <Ailure> well either way
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08:47:26  <Ailure> it dosen't seem to be a spambot, just some stupid kid
08:47:27  * mcbane turns into a vampire.
08:47:46  <Ailure> and keeps adding on pages that dosen't really exist
08:47:49  <boekabart> i haven't seen it - what happens?
08:48:11  * mikl drives a stake through mcbanes heart
08:48:31  <mikl> a friendly way, of course
08:48:54  <boekabart> good thing you mention that :)
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10:34:35  <gynterk> does each client got his unique id in game ?
10:34:45  <gynterk> and is this id permanent?
10:34:50  <gynterk> per connection or per computer ?
10:35:31  <dihedral|work> gynterk: have a look in your openttd.cfg file
10:36:03  <gynterk> network id
10:36:04  <gynterk> ok
10:36:17  <gynterk> but is this ID generated on first run right ?
10:36:50  <boekabart> if it doesn't exist in openttd.cfg, it's generated
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10:37:19  <gynterk> but can server admins see my ID ?
10:37:44  <boekabart> dunno, start a server, join it and try :)
10:38:07  <boekabart> probably it's sent to the server at some point, and openttd being opensourced, they should be able to catch it if they want
10:38:50  <boekabart> concerned about privacy? make a script that removed the networkID line from the cfg after every run - or modify your source to generate it every time :)
10:38:57  <gynterk> mp
10:38:59  <gynterk> no *
10:39:21  <gynterk> i want to know hows the best way to identify different clients for statistics reason
10:41:48  <dihedral|work> gynterk: yes admins can see your id
10:41:52  <dihedral|work> using the status command
10:42:13  <dihedral|work> the id is also send in a UDP_SERVER_DETAIL_INFO packet
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10:48:18  <Rubidium> gynterk: there is no way to uniquely identify clients
10:51:29  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: why not?
10:51:35  <dihedral|work> not again...
10:51:42  <TrueBrain> (hi btw :))
10:51:51  <dihedral|work> hello TrueBrain
10:52:25  <TrueBrain> [12:36] <boekabart> if it doesn't exist in openttd.cfg, it's generated <- weird:
10:52:26  <TrueBrain> network_id = a9381f33af093bc41a35a913d537cf21
10:52:35  <TrueBrain> oh, lol
10:52:38  <TrueBrain> misread you totally :p
10:52:39  <TrueBrain> haha :)
10:52:41  <TrueBrain> I should shut up ;)
10:53:22  <TrueBrain> anyway, this MD5 should be 'good enough' to uniquely identify clients. I did it for a long time via the masterserver :p
10:53:56  <TrueBrain> (only because of a bug somewhere in my script, I removed it :p)
10:54:30  <TrueBrain> who knows a good asm -> C application? :p
10:57:19  <TrueBrain> bah, boring people
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10:58:37  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: I do... it's called Ludde
10:58:43  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: doh!
11:00:16  <Rubidium> <- maybe of more "use"
11:00:34  <TrueBrain>
11:00:36  <TrueBrain> I don;t have the money :p
11:00:45  <TrueBrain> I tried most of those tools, but most fail badly
11:05:10  <Rubidium> then I guess there's nothing I can think of either
11:05:25  <TrueBrain> too bad
11:05:26  <TrueBrain> tnx anyway
11:05:37  <TrueBrain> I guess I will be learning asm ;)
11:06:02  <Rubidium> what do you need to do then?
11:06:13  <TrueBrain> oh, I was wondering how a small DOS application did something
11:06:20  <TrueBrain> as I know it is made in C
11:06:28  <TrueBrain> I thought it would be simple to make some kind of C representation of the code
11:06:31  <TrueBrain> so it would be easier
11:06:51  <Rubidium> unlikely that the C compiler (and especially strip) leaves enough information to actually do that
11:07:13  <TrueBrain> most of the time you can get some C back, not variable names and stuff
11:07:19  <TrueBrain> but at least the functions
11:07:28  <TrueBrain> (not the names, but where they start and stop)
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11:44:25  <gynterk> how many chars are max in company name ?
11:44:55  <TrueBrain> check the code
11:45:02  <TrueBrain> src/network/network.h or somewhere
11:45:08  <TrueBrain> nice enums defining such things
11:57:55  <TrueBrain> I really wonder if the creators of KyleXY ever really asked a tech-guy how a computer works
12:00:47  <Nitehawk> unlikely
12:01:03  <Nitehawk>  amusing show though
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12:28:35  <Shunt> #openttd
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13:17:55  <ln->
13:18:27  <Shunt> lol
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14:01:50  <Eddi|zuHause> haha :p
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14:02:33  <ln-> though it's been claimed to be a fake
14:04:21  <boekabart> i sure hope it is
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14:11:15  <dihedral|work> does openttd reload the cfg file after issueing a 'newgame' ?
14:12:26  <boekabart> well, it does use different settings (newgamesettings) than the intro game
14:12:39  <boekabart> i don't think it physically reloads the cfg
14:13:01  <dihedral|work> are you sure - or are you just asuming ?
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14:13:45  <boekabart> i'm 99% sure - i know that on new game, the NewGameSettings are copied to Settings (where settings => patches, difficulty and newgrf config)
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14:14:21  <boekabart> I also know that when I change a setting in main menu, it's not saved to cfg until i Quit the program (the correct way, crash/break is not correct)
14:14:45  <dihedral|work> my game has no permissions to write to that file
14:14:52  <boekabart> so it's quite sure that it won't reload it between changing the settings, not saving and then starting a game
14:15:03  <dihedral|work> right
14:15:12  <boekabart> dihedral|work: mine neither, it's read only. but that doesn't crash the game
14:15:15  <boekabart> :)
14:17:02  <Rafagd> hi people, where i can create "new variables" to the lang files?
14:17:46  <glx> what do you mean?
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14:18:03  <glx> new {SOMETHING} ?
14:18:05  <Rafagd> well
14:18:07  <Rafagd> yep
14:18:20  <glx> update strgen to understand them
14:18:31  <glx> and FormatString() too
14:18:46  <Rafagd> tks
14:19:23  <dihedral|work> any chances on getting openttd to reload the actual cfg file?
14:19:46  <boekabart> may I ask why you want it to?
14:19:53  <gfldex> Rafagd: there is a howto for strings in the wiki
14:20:30  <dihedral|work> so that i can change the cfg file while the game is running and it will affect the next game
14:20:30  <Eddi|zuHause> ln-: i have seen people fail at the simplest of questions
14:20:52  <boekabart> dihedral|work: quit, start isn't acceptable?
14:21:04  <Eddi|zuHause> it should not be necessary to fake those
14:21:13  <Rafagd> gfldex: hm... thanks... I'll try to do something later...
14:21:21  <boekabart> the big change necessary would be: Save more often, Load more often
14:21:42  <boekabart> so, before starting a game ottd would have to Save + Load the cfg - rather than loading at start and saving on quit
14:21:52  <boekabart> so, it's an easy patch I guess
14:22:44  <Rafagd> boekabart: it could save every time you close a cfg window...
14:22:48  <dihedral|work> boekabart: if it saved before loading it would not make sense
14:23:42  <boekabart> dihedral|work: Assuming Read_only cfg file: The whole problem with both approaches would be that settings changed in the config windows would never be used for the new game
14:23:51  <boekabart> since you're not saving
14:24:00  <dihedral|work> and quit and restart is not possible because i may not be accessing the server when it restarts
14:24:50  <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral|work: do you expect the game to load changes you made to savegames while playing the game?
14:25:02  <Eddi|zuHause> why should the behaviour with the config file be different?
14:25:55  <dihedral|work> Eddi|zuHause: i want the game to load changes to the cfg file i have made while it was serving one game, and take affect in the next game
14:26:18  <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral|work: suggestion: add a console command "reload_cfg"
14:27:00  <dihedral|work> the cfg would have to be loaded between the end of one game and generating the map for the next game
14:27:15  <Rafagd> dihedral|work: write the configuration on a note, then repeat them on the global cfg window?
14:27:17  <dihedral|work> so that you could for example change the landscape, map size etc
14:27:32  <Eddi|zuHause> not necessarily, there are different variables for "current game" and "new game" settings
14:27:36  <dihedral|work> Rafagd: there aint no window
14:28:19  <Eddi|zuHause> just make sure the command changes the right set of variables
14:28:33  <dihedral|work> sweet Eddi|zuHause thanks
14:28:34  <boekabart> dihedral|work: What if you change the cfg when you're in 'starting screen' - no game loaded?
14:28:37  <Rafagd> hm...
14:28:52  <dihedral|work> boekabart: i am thinking of a dedicated server :-)
14:28:57  <dihedral|work> like i said - no screens
14:29:00  <dihedral|work> no windows
14:29:16  <boekabart> in that case - save + load just before game start
14:29:34  <boekabart> (since save won't do anything on your setup - it'll in effect reload
14:29:58  <boekabart> or just a load at StopGame of course
14:30:03  <boekabart> after StopGame
14:30:23  <boekabart> or create a Hook to the file (win32, but linux must be able to do it too) and reload it 'on Change'
14:30:55  <Eddi|zuHause> boekabart: that is very filesystem specific
14:30:57  <boekabart> changes won't reflect in the running game anyway, AFAICT loadconfig loads into the 'new game configuration' structures
14:31:14  <boekabart> Eddi|zuHause: Well, so is creating the game window
14:32:27  <Eddi|zuHause> boekabart: well, but there are only 3 supported graphic engines, but there need to be like a dozen filesystems to be considered
14:33:17  <Eddi|zuHause> well, 4, counting the "null" driver
14:34:19  <Eddi|zuHause> boekabart: what i want to say, it adds a new, rather unnecessary, set of platform dependencies
14:35:22  <boekabart> Eddi|zuHause: Hey, I don't see the 'use' of auto-reloading the config anyway :)
14:35:41  <boekabart> i'd make a command to let the server do so
14:36:24  <Eddi|zuHause> that's what i said
14:36:26  <dihedral|work> boekabart: web interface with access to the cfg file (one can make changes)
14:36:35  <dihedral|work> openttd running in autopilot
14:36:55  <boekabart> well you can send commands to the server console can't you
14:36:57  <dihedral|work> i dont want to have to quit and restart whenever one of the admins decides to have a slightly diff game
14:37:17  <dihedral|work> besides, they dont have access to the shell
14:37:21  <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral|work: autopilot should quit the game before starting a new game anyway
14:37:32  <Eddi|zuHause> you can overwrite the config file at that point
14:37:37  <dihedral|work> autopilot does not start the new game
14:37:40  <dihedral|work> openttd does
14:37:57  <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral|work: i mean quit openttd, and launch a new instance
14:37:57  <dihedral|work> so that people paying are not just droped out
14:38:10  <dihedral|work> but rejoin as soon as the map is ready
14:38:37  <Eddi|zuHause> err... how should that work?
14:39:06  <dihedral|work> run a newgame command on your server?
14:39:29  <Eddi|zuHause> honestly, i never ran a server
14:40:48  <dihedral|work> you got 0.5.3 around?
14:42:04  <dihedral|work> then you could connect to one of my games, and i run 'newgame' for you to see :-)
14:46:29  <mcbane> skidd ya out there?
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14:56:33  <skidd13> mcbane: yup
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14:58:34  <skidd13> What's the problem?
15:00:29  <mcbane> i think the zloty request is also old =)
15:01:22  <mcbane>
15:03:11  <skidd13> Why are you telling me that. Cause I do a little cleanup? :D
15:03:20  <mcbane> yea =)
15:04:54  <skidd13> I'm not too deep into the whole language stuff. So I won't remove it.
15:05:22  <skidd13> I off for now.
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15:05:50  <mcbane> oki
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16:01:42  <huma> if a train is longer than a platform lenght, the trailing cars won't be used, right?
16:01:58  <boekabart> IIRC, loading takes longer but all cars are used
16:04:03  <huma> thanks. i was wondering how to extend the platform in the future as the traffic grows.
16:04:11  <Bjarni> all cars are used, but it takes extremely long time
16:04:43  *** dihedral|work is now known as dihedral|away
16:04:48  <huma> oh.. extremely doesn't sound good
16:04:50  <boekabart> huma: just remove a piece of rail and build an extra piece of station in its place
16:05:10  <Bjarni> yeah, you can always add to a station like that
16:05:14  <huma> ah, great
16:05:17  <huma> thanks
16:05:21  <Bjarni> except if it hits the max station spread
16:05:34  <Bjarni> which can be pretty big
16:05:55  <huma> station spread == coverage area?
16:06:19  <glx> no
16:06:32  <glx> station spread is total station size
16:06:35  <boekabart> i'm not sure, but i think it's the max width/height of the station
16:06:42  <huma> oh
16:07:10  <Bjarni> but you can never make a station larger than the max station spread, even if you are building a brand new station
16:07:54  <Bjarni> once you reached the max station size, you shouldn't need a bigger station
16:08:06  <Bjarni> s/bigger/longer
16:08:41  <Bjarni> you might need more tracks though, but due to the length, it takes a long time for a train to leave a track, so it's not really efficient as the frequency of trains aren't ideal
16:09:33  <frosch123> Bjarni: Code signals in stations :)
16:09:46  <Bjarni> I knew somebody would say that :P
16:09:46  <huma> i'd have to stick several tracks to one platform
16:10:11  <boekabart> huma: what?
16:10:34  <Bjarni> generally it's a bad idea to leave wagons outside the station as it's likely to block another signal block
16:11:26  <boekabart> Bjarni: local rating should go down too: imagine what people say if they have to walk through dirt to get to their seats.. or complaints of loaders that have to do the same for freight
16:11:43  <huma> boekabart: say there's 1 track station and 3 tracks lead to it from different places
16:11:56  <boekabart> ah, like that
16:12:37  <Bjarni> actually walking though dirt isn't the biggest issue when reaching cars outside the platform
16:12:55  <Bjarni> it's the lack of platform, hence the distance from the ground to the door
16:12:58  <boekabart> climbing in the cars is :)
16:13:18  <Rafagd> mountaineers would love it
16:13:26  <Bjarni> err
16:13:48  <huma> Bjarni: well, as a town grows you may not have a chance (free space) to extend a platform
16:14:12  <Bjarni> even mountaineers wouldn't enjoy climbing 2 meters without anything to hold on to except a few stuff that's really dirty
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16:15:06  <Rafagd> =/
16:15:08  <huma> Bjarni: so passengers will have to use other transport if they're not willing to walk through dirt :)
16:15:54  <Rafagd> they usually teleport into the train, so they don't bother too much with dirty
16:16:15  <boekabart> then why does it take so long to load a train that's too long
16:16:38  <Rafagd> that is a mistery
16:16:39  <Rafagd> =\
16:17:06  <Bjarni> <huma> Bjarni: well, as a town grows you may not have a chance (free space) to extend a platform <-- you mean we should look at how Japan solved this issue in real life and do the same?
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16:17:30  <Ailure> passengers in openTTD dosen't imnd going from 600 km/h to 0 km/h within seconds too :)
16:17:32  <Ailure> remember that
16:17:39  <huma> Bjarni: em.. how did they handle it? :)
16:17:58  <Rafagd> bridge-stations and subways?
16:18:20  <Bjarni> like when there is a road at both ends of the platform and they need to extend the platform, they just build another one on the other side of one of the roads and then one car is marked as "doesn't open the doors at XXX"
16:18:23  <huma> i know there are "packers" in subways :)
16:18:31  <Bjarni> because it stops in the crossing
16:19:03  <huma> Bjarni: interesting
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16:19:52  <Rafagd> that's a real-life hack
16:20:10  <Bjarni> there was a video of this on youtube, but the user deleted it :s
16:20:33  <huma> many good vids get removed :(
16:20:37  <Bjarni> yeah
16:22:15  <Bjarni> anyway it's an interesting solution nevertheless
16:22:54  <Bjarni> needed when you want to use 8 unit EMUs on platforms originally designed for 4 units
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16:27:40  <Wolf01> hello
16:28:12  <Bjarni> hi
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16:31:18  <Ammler> glx, I had my assert with packet.cpp
16:31:28  <glx> nice
16:31:37  <glx> what is the output?
16:31:45  <Ammler> but I forgot to patch the last revision
16:31:55  <glx> too bad
16:32:01  <Ammler> do you still have the patch for it?
16:32:17  <Bjarni> hehe, I had another window in front of IRC, so what I saw was:
16:32:25  <Bjarni>  <Ammler> glx, I had my ass
16:32:26  <Bjarni> <glx> nice
16:32:59  <Bjarni> you guys talk dirty even when you don't realise it :P
16:34:00  <Ammler> hmm, it was on the time, when svn wasn't available
16:34:17  <Ammler> so I did overwrite my whole src
16:34:58  <glx> Ammler:
16:35:35  <Rafagd> there is a way to output text to console for debug without need to include<iostream> and use cout?
16:35:48  <glx> yes printf
16:36:12  <Rafagd> stdio.h is already included?
16:36:18  <glx> yes
16:36:28  <Rafagd> tks
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16:37:05  <Rafagd> i'm creating a new structure, (like stations, waypoints), but the sign doesn't show up
16:37:30  <Rafagd> where they are generated?
16:38:41  <Eddi|zuHause> you turned those off somewhere?
16:40:57  <Ammler> hmm, my last autosave is autosave74.sav, is it possible to tell ottd to continue there?
16:41:15  <Ammler> btw, thx glx, I have patched it now
16:41:42  <glx> start openttd -g save/autosave/autosave74.sav
16:41:55  <Rafagd> Eddi|zuHause: old things have the signs
16:41:58  <Ammler> start?
16:42:28  <glx> run ;)
16:42:34  <Ammler> oh, I mean, possible to tell ottd, that it will save next autosave as autosave75.sav
16:43:16  <Bjarni> <-- nice video... we need to make trains in OTTD able to do this
16:44:54  <ln-> if you just pasted the relevant part of the link
16:45:09  <Bjarni> what is the relevant part then?
16:45:11  <Rafagd>
16:45:17  <Rafagd> v=sajkaskjdhkajsh!
16:45:20  <Rafagd> only this
16:45:21  <Rafagd> =]
16:45:27  <Wolf01> you mean tracks over road?
16:45:33  <Bjarni> yeah
16:45:49  <Bjarni> I mean in the same direction as the cars, not a 90° angle
16:45:55  <Rafagd> oh
16:45:58  <hylje> you mean trams
16:45:58  <Rafagd> tram-like
16:46:01  <hylje> :-)
16:46:10  <Bjarni> yeah, tram like, but this isn't trams
16:46:14  <Eddi|zuHause> that totally looks chinese to me
16:46:21  <Bjarni> it's the railroad line between Kyoto and Otsu
16:46:32  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: Kyoto is in Japan :P
16:46:51  <hylje> what if the japanese empire managed to build a railroad tunnel to koreas?
16:47:01  <glx> Ammler: it's not possible
16:47:18  <Ammler> thank you
16:47:36  <Bjarni> hylje: I don't think they would do that... you see, they don't really like the Korean people
16:47:42  <Wolf01> i once suggested for a system of overlay sprites, so you can use the same track for all the tiles, on grassy ones is enough to place another layer with the rocks under the tracks... so is possible to customize via grf the tracks without doing 1232132131 sprites
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16:48:00  <hylje> Bjarni: they controlled korea and mantsuria during and before WWII
16:48:11  <Bjarni> I know
16:48:33  <Bjarni> but I think they want to protect themselves against backfire
16:48:50  <SpComb> how can I unset a variable in the console? E.g. set the server to have no password
16:49:09  <Bjarni> the word kamikaze actually refers to the godly wind that protects Japan and sinks the enemy ships
16:49:10  <Eddi|zuHause> set password=""?
16:49:33  <SpComb> set password=""
16:49:33  <SpComb> ERROR: command or variable not found
16:49:39  <SpComb> there's no set command
16:49:48  <Rafagd> kamikaze is something like "Wind God", "god of wind" or any variation of it
16:49:49  <Rafagd> o.o
16:49:53  <SpComb> server_pw asdf
16:49:53  <SpComb> 'server_pw' changed to:  asdf
16:49:53  <SpComb> server_pw ""
16:49:53  <SpComb> Current value for 'server_pw' is:  asdf
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16:50:09  <Bjarni> Rafagd: kami means god or godly, and kaze means wind
16:50:11  <Bjarni> so yes
16:50:13  <Ammler> glx: I hope it will happen now, last time it didn't with the "patched" version
16:50:19  <SpComb> server_pw = ""   gives    ERROR: invalid variable assignment
16:50:48  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: then i can't help you any further
16:50:59  <SpComb> so it's impossible to unset the server password via the console?
16:51:15  <glx> SpComb: you can't either do it in gui
16:51:46  <Rafagd> you may recreate without pass
16:52:20  <Bjarni> maybe this is a feature request
16:52:50  <SpComb> maybe I need to write that slightly more advanced machine-readable interface for/into OpenTTD
16:53:04  <Eddi|zuHause> i am quite certain it has been requested before
16:53:10  <SpComb> the console "protocol" isn't that great :P
16:53:20  <Rafagd> Bjarni: they aren't just trains on the roads... they are eletric
16:53:22  <Rafagd> o.o
16:53:27  <Bjarni> yeah
16:53:36  <Bjarni> class 800
16:53:46  <Rubidium> SpComb: the console has never been "great" or anything near "great"
16:53:46  <Ammler> there would also be cool, if you could reset a company password, so you don't have to restart the whole server
16:53:56  <Eddi|zuHause> Bjarni: they drive on left side...
16:54:06  <Bjarni> so they have catenary and even signals on the roads
16:54:09  <Rafagd> wrong side*
16:54:15  <SpComb> I assume there's nothing in the OpenTTD internals itself that stops you from unsetting the server password at runtime?
16:54:22  <Eddi|zuHause> right...
16:54:25  <Bjarni> I think they even have ATC in the road
16:54:36  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: everything drives in the left in Japan
16:54:44  <Bjarni> Japan is a very different country
16:55:06  <Eddi|zuHause> "ATC"?
16:55:22  <Rafagd> at least, they measure velocity in "km/h" =\
16:55:29  <Rafagd> speed*
16:55:50  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: well, they call it "jidouresshaseigyosouchi"
16:56:04  <Bjarni> I think you would prefer our name xD
16:56:36  <Bjarni> basically it's a system where transmitters in the track tells about max speed, distance to next red signal, location of the train and so on
16:56:39  <Eddi|zuHause> that still does not answer my question
16:56:49  <Eddi|zuHause> ah
16:57:18  <Bjarni> effectively preventing speeding and passing signals at danger as it has access to the brake system
16:57:19  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds reasonable
16:57:59  <Bjarni> I was in a train the day before yesterday and the ATC kicked in and stopped the train
16:58:19  <Bjarni> odds are that it was a mistake, but the system is to stop the train unless it's sure that everything is ok
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16:58:43  <gynterk> I'll ask again
16:58:50  <gynterk> is there a list of translators somewhere ?
16:59:01  <Bjarni> the problem is... it braked as fast as possible, so standing up was... well, I had to hold on to something
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16:59:28  <Bjarni> and when it moved again, I could hear that the wheel were a bit damaged from braking that fast :(
16:59:31  <Rubidium> probably not
16:59:54  <Bjarni> gynterk: not to the public
17:00:20  <Bjarni> the server owner can always browse though the accounts, but I think he is the only one
17:00:22  <glx> even translators only know the name of other translators for their language
17:00:47  <Bjarni> gynterk: why?
17:00:53  <gynterk> but if I wan't to be a translator too :P ?
17:01:05  <Bjarni> *want
17:01:10  <Bjarni> hmm
17:01:19  <glx> go on and follow the instructions
17:01:19  <Eddi|zuHause> why would you need to know the other translators than?
17:01:26  <Bjarni> isn't such a huge mistake a disqualifying one? :P
17:01:38  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: *then
17:01:38  <gynterk> Bjarni: common typo for me :P
17:01:50  <Bjarni> like that makes it better :P
17:02:01  <Eddi|zuHause> uncommon typo for me...
17:02:13  <SpComb> aaaah, right, it's in the comments - set the password to * to clear it
17:02:42  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: you might want to tell that on a wiki page
17:03:08  <gynterk> anyway
17:03:31  <gynterk> Estonian translation needs a lot of gramatical correcting
17:04:02  <Bjarni> <-- once the train actually goes somewhere (like a minute into it), you can see ATC transmitters. They are square boxes on the inside of the right track. They are yellow, though most are rather dirty and looks pretty brown
17:04:57  *** tapani [] has joined #openttd
17:05:55  <hylje> i think japan has a whole imageboard for train nuts
17:06:53  <Bjarni> most likely
17:07:01  *** dihedral|away is now known as dihedral
17:07:09  <Bjarni> I have yet to see a Japanese guy (or girl) not taking a whole lot of pictures
17:07:11  <dihedral> 4 desyncs in a row :-)
17:07:26  <Rubidium> XeryusTC doing the server again?
17:07:36  <Ammler> hmm, svn doesn't like it, if I overwrite the src with a tar.gz from nightly server...
17:07:49  <Bjarni> gynterk: <-- if you think you can do better, then sign up
17:08:02  <SpComb> server_pw = " foo "    <-- what's the password if I do that? It's not `foo', nor is it ` foo '
17:08:19  <Ammler> Rubidium: no, was on my server :)
17:08:24  <hylje> japanese rails are nicely narrow
17:08:24  *** Diabolic-Angel [] has joined #openttd
17:08:59  <Bjarni> in fact there is a difference between videos from Japan and US on youtube... the Japanese ones covers EVERYTHING....
17:09:03  *** tapani is now known as trapu
17:09:13  <Ammler> XeryusTC in quilty everytime :)
17:09:15  <huma> is there a curvy road path in progress?
17:09:24  <Ammler> !s/in/is not/
17:09:34  <Bjarni> basically if you can read and write kanji, then you can find everything. If you can only read and write English, then you are stuck with whatever the rest of the world selects
17:09:49  <Bjarni> it's like Japanese people don't have that select mode... they just forward everything
17:09:55  <hylje> :o
17:10:13  <hylje> Bjarni: what are those extra rails that seemingly randomly appear in between real rails
17:10:28  <SpComb> hylje! Isn't it about time that you started helping me write MyOTTD? Who else here knows Python? :(
17:10:39  <hylje> pylons
17:10:45  <SpComb> true
17:12:23  <Bjarni> <hylje> Bjarni: what are those extra rails that seemingly randomly appear in between real rails <-- it's to "catch" the train if it derails. We usually use them around bridges and stuff where it can go really bad if they derail and leaves the track area... it appears that they want to use them when they are in selected curves as well
17:13:01  <hylje> :o
17:13:04  <Bjarni> oh, and we also use them near selected platforms
17:13:55  <Bjarni> basically if the wheels fall off the tracks, then they are stuck between the real rail and the backup, making the train drive on the sleepers until it's stopped
17:14:11  <hylje> :o
17:14:17  <Bjarni> driving on sleepers avoids a major accident
17:14:28  <hylje> also
17:14:35  <hylje> when a train does an emergency stop
17:14:50  <hylje> does it practically lock the wheels in place?
17:14:59  <Bjarni> Denmark had a train that derailed a few years ago. The last bogie drove on the sleepers for a while without anything serious happened
17:15:21  <Bjarni> basically because it happened at 160 km/h and it takes time to stop at that speed
17:15:23  <SpComb> so I'd need to find someone who knows Python, and doesn't know Django, and in the optimal case knows Pylons
17:15:28  <hylje> :>
17:15:42  <glx> <hylje> does it practically lock the wheels in place? <-- yes, that's why they try to avoid it's usage
17:15:52  <glx> as it can damage wheels and rail
17:16:02  <hylje> correction, it will damage wheels and rail
17:16:13  <Bjarni> <hylje> does it practically lock the wheels in place? <-- no because a: it breaks the wheels, b: it will produce a longer brake distance than when braking max with rotating wheels
17:16:42  <Bjarni> it's no fun when the wheels blocks >_<
17:16:50  <Rafagd> if (user->know(python) && !user->know(Django) && user.know(Pylons));
17:16:54  <Bjarni> due to slippery rails
17:17:55  <Bjarni> hehe, the only thing I find odd about those tracks is.... the 1067 mm gauge (Japanese standard)
17:18:06  <Bjarni> IT'S SO SMALL
17:18:12  <hylje> narrow
17:18:20  <Bjarni> it's tiny
17:18:25  <Rafagd> 1m wide?
17:18:29  <Bjarni> yeah
17:18:31  <Bjarni> well
17:18:31  <Rafagd> omg
17:18:39  <Bjarni> 1,067 meter wide
17:18:43  <hylje> is shinkansen that wide too
17:18:55  <Bjarni> and they go more than 100 km/h on that gauge o_O
17:19:04  <hylje> unpossible
17:19:11  <Bjarni> <hylje> is shinkansen that wide too <-- no, they use 1435 mm like the rest of us
17:19:15  <hylje> :o
17:19:21  <Ammler> yeah, you should use narrow gauge for japanset
17:19:23  <Rafagd> brazilian trains hardly go more than 80km
17:19:36  <Rafagd> and are wider than that
17:19:37  <Rafagd> o.o
17:19:56  <Rafagd> 80km/h*
17:20:17  <hylje> 1524mm
17:20:19  <Bjarni> Japan use DC (often 750 V or 1500 V), but Shinkansen use 25 kV AC, so it really has a railnet of it's own
17:20:22  <hylje> of finland and russia
17:20:24  <Ammler> Bjarni: swiss has also some narrow gauge lines
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17:20:57  <Bjarni> Ammler: I'm talking about nation standard, not "some lines". Most countries has lines that are a bit different
17:21:02  <Ammler> its nice, you can drive on tram tracks with trains...
17:21:02  <Bjarni> specially in mountains
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17:21:34  <Bjarni> <Ammler> its nice, you can drive on tram tracks with trains... <-- you need to ensure that the foundation below the road is better than on normal tram tracks
17:22:01  <Ammler> I have no idea about that, we drove on a wedding on them
17:24:41  <Bjarni> <-- they made the foundation damn well here
17:24:44  <SpComb> I assume that you cannot load a savegame saved in 0.5.3/trunk into an older version of OpenTTD?
17:24:49  <SpComb> but you can the other way around?
17:25:18  <Bjarni> yeah, the game is not aware of the savegame format from the future, but it knows what it used to be when we change it
17:26:07  <glx> it's always true for releases, but may be false for nightlies ;)
17:26:20  <Bjarni> it's interesting to see how the Americans just ignore the train... go figure why they have a road/rail accident every 90th minute
17:26:36  <Sacro> hmm
17:26:44  <Sacro> postal strike till next wednesday
17:26:49  <Sacro> that's gonna make things fun
17:28:21  <Bjarni> why?
17:28:30  <Bjarni> you just ordered something important online?
17:29:03  <peterbrett> Sacro: whereabouts are you?  East Anglia by any chance?
17:29:18  <Sacro> peterbrett: 'Ull
17:29:30  <peterbrett> Sacro: Lurvely
17:29:55  <Bjarni> why do they go on strike?
17:30:05  <Bjarni> are they getting mucked?
17:30:07  <Sacro> peterbrett: it's country wide
17:30:18  <Sacro> 150k out of 185k have stopped working
17:30:26  <Sacro> Bjarni: lack of pay
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17:32:40  <dihedral> why do i get 2 ini error messages when starting r11152 on win32?
17:32:46  <dihedral> trailing char?
17:33:00  <dihedral> i even deleted the cfg and that  made no diff
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17:33:53  <glx> platform?
17:34:23  <Ammler> dihedral: thats advanced vehicle list and
17:34:42  <Ammler> loading indicator, isn't?
17:35:19  <Ammler> they have changed, bool->int
17:35:41  <glx> <dihedral> i even deleted the cfg and that  made no diff <-- platform?
17:35:50  <Ammler> delete them from cfg
17:36:36  <dihedral> 19:32 < dihedral> why do i get 2 ini error messages when starting r11152 on win32
17:36:48  <dihedral> 19:33 < dihedral> i even deleted the cfg and that  made no diff
17:36:50  <glx> oups :)
17:37:00  <dihedral> and i keep getting desynced
17:37:10  <glx> check MyDocs\openttd\openttd.cfg
17:37:34  <dihedral> you've got to be kidding me
17:37:49  <dihedral> who on earth did that?
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17:38:06  <glx> we did it :)
17:38:09  <dihedral> why?
17:38:12  <Ammler> dihedral: thats cool
17:38:20  <gynterk> you could put doc & settings\<user>\Local settings\openttd then already
17:38:20  <dihedral> yeah - cooool
17:38:36  <dihedral> right
17:38:38  <dihedral> get it :-)
17:38:41  <gynterk> local settings\application data\openttd :P
17:38:57  <Ammler> you can have 100 different revisions and don't need to have multiple grfs etc.
17:39:01  <Rafagd> glx: that is to match ~/.openttd in linux?
17:39:07  <Rubidium> gynterk: that does NOT exist on all supported Windows platforms
17:39:38  <gynterk> Ammler: it's called symlink
17:40:03  <Ammler> gynterk: not needed anymore
17:40:53  <gynterk> putting things into seperate folder is same as if I install windows to c:\windows\desktop
17:41:51  <dihedral> gynterk: dont you think that some people coding this game actually put a lot of time and effort into id?
17:41:54  <Rubidium> fails to see the similarity in there
17:42:00  <Sacro> The study suggested as a woman runs a mile, her breasts bounced 135m.
17:42:05  <Sacro> damn i think i'm on the wrong course
17:42:06  <dihedral> and in the mean time have a pretty good understanding of what they are doing and why they are doing it?
17:42:25  <gynterk> dihedral: i know that, I'm programmer myself
17:42:44  <gynterk> but redirecting folders to mydoc isn't cool
17:43:08  <glx> you can still use install dir
17:43:30  <glx> openttd searches for files in many places
17:43:32  <dihedral> gynterk: WINDOWS is not cool
17:43:40  <gynterk> dihedral: agree
17:43:58  <huma> hmm, there's no forest on the map
17:44:22  <huma> but paper mill is present
17:44:34  <Rafagd> huma: artic maps doesn't have forests to me too
17:44:53  <huma> yes, arctic
17:44:57  <huma> is it a bug?
17:45:06  <Ammler> maybe you have snowline too high?
17:45:18  <Ammler> forests are over the snowline
17:45:38  <Rafagd> what?
17:45:58  <Rafagd> forests on artic are only for high maps?
17:46:13  <dihedral> i cannot get onto my own nightly...
17:46:17  <dihedral> desyncs me all the time!
17:46:38  <glx> modified nightly?
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17:46:46  <dihedral> nope
17:46:50  <dihedral> only got grf's in there
17:46:58  <dihedral> but from #openttdcoop grfpack
17:47:05  <huma> eh.. no paper for poo arctic people then
17:47:27  <Ammler> dihedral: revision, still same as coop?
17:47:40  <dihedral> 11152
17:48:00  <glx> real 11152 for the server ?
17:48:15  <dihedral> checkout and compiled...
17:48:28  <dihedral> one other guy has no probs
17:48:37  <Ammler> same as current ps, should run...
17:49:20  <Ammler> oh, than its your client...
17:49:47  <dihedral> what else but 'download it again' can i do
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17:51:13  <Ammler> join #openttdfairplay
17:51:24  <Ammler> sry, forgot slash
17:51:24  <huma> damn, these witcombe oil tankers break like crazy
17:52:14  <Rafagd> huma:
17:52:23  <Rafagd> huma: i've started a game in artic
17:52:31  <Rafagd> with pretty high terrain
17:52:37  <Rafagd> and large map
17:52:41  <huma> got forest? :)
17:52:45  <Rafagd> yep
17:52:46  <Rafagd> :)
17:52:58  <Rafagd> lots of them
17:53:42  <huma> neat
17:53:54  <huma> send me some :)
17:55:13  <Rafagd> i cant :(
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17:57:42  <SpComb> seems 0.5.2 can read savegames written by 0.5.3
17:57:56  <hylje> not all versions bump savegame version
17:57:59  <Bjarni> look at the changelog
17:58:18  <Bjarni> I don't think anything in the changelog made a savegame dump needed
17:58:35  <glx> bugfixes are usually savegame safe
17:58:48  <Bjarni> yeah
17:58:56  <Bjarni> except when the buggy data is saved
17:58:59  <hylje> s/^d/b/
17:59:08  <Bjarni> this should never happen in stable releases
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18:01:37  <Ailure> heh
18:01:45  <Ailure> I was so fast checking for the new nightly
18:01:50  <Ailure> that only the source was listed :)
18:02:20  <Ailure> And Win32 now finally came up
18:02:23  <Ailure> *downloads*
18:11:25  <huma> what? new version is out?
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18:11:47  <Ailure> The nightlies are compiled at 19:00 GMT
18:11:55  <huma> oh
18:11:56  <Sacro> hmm strange
18:11:56  <Ailure> which w as for ten minutes ago
18:12:00  <Sacro> are you sure?
18:12:05  <Ailure> yes
18:12:08  <huma> 0.5.3 is here
18:12:13  <Sacro> nope
18:12:21  <Sacro> because it is 19:10 BST here
18:12:38  <Sacro> 19:00 GMT is in 50 mins
18:12:58  <Ailure> ah yeah I forgot about daylight saving thing
18:13:31  <Ailure> which is not in GMT
18:14:07  <Greyscale> fudz tiem
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18:27:34  <Eddi|zuHause> actually, the nightlies are compiled 20:00 server time
18:27:42  <Eddi|zuHause> which happens to be CEST currently
18:28:00  <Sacro> no
18:28:07  <Sacro> its 18:00 GMT
18:28:34  <Sacro> the compilation time never changes
18:28:44  <Rubidium> hmm, GMT does automagically move an hour with the summer time <-> winter time transition?
18:28:50  <Sacro> Rubidium: no it doesn't
18:28:53  <Sacro> GMT == UTC
18:29:28  <Sacro> BST=CET=GMT+1
18:29:48  <Rubidium> then why are they *always* made at 20:00 my time (CET or CEST depending on the time of year)
18:30:01  <Sacro> hmm
18:30:10  <Sacro> i thought it was 19:00BST/18:00 GMT
18:37:04  <Sacro> Console.WriteLine("Bored :(");
18:37:17  <Rubidium> just checked it a little: on 20th of november 2006 and 30th of november 2006 the Windows nightlies were made just before 20:05 CET
18:38:33  <Rubidium> yikes... .NET speak
18:44:43  <Sacro> heh
18:44:50  <Sacro> .net?
18:46:09  <hylje> :o
18:46:12  <hylje> dotnet
18:47:01  <Rafagd> std::cout << "Bored :(" << std::eol;
18:47:17  <hylje> print "Bored :("
18:47:28  <Rafagd> echo "Bored :(";
18:48:58  <Rubidium> hmm, what language is the last one?
18:49:17  <Rubidium> the others are C++ and probably Python
18:49:54  <Rafagd> Rafagd: php
18:49:56  <glx> Debug.Print "Bored :("
18:50:03  <Rafagd> Rubidium: *
18:50:29  <Prof_Frink> echo 'Bored :('
18:50:30  <SmatZ> Basic, nice to remember :)
18:51:10  <Rafagd> writeln('Bored :(');
18:51:12  <Rafagd> Pascal
18:51:13  <Rafagd> =]
18:51:16  <huma> sh, semicolon is redundant though
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18:54:58  <huma> hmm, no one mentioned java
18:56:01  <glx> system.out.println("Bored :(");
18:56:10  <glx> not sure about case ;)
18:56:52  <SpComb> printf("Busy :)");
18:57:02  <Rafagd> C
18:57:06  <SpComb> hmm... I missed the \n, but so did Rafagd
18:58:20  <Rafagd> msg $chan "Bored :("
18:58:22  <Prof_Frink> echo -n B; echo -n o; echo -n r; echo -n e; echo -n d; echo -n " "; echo -n ':'; echo '('
18:59:36  <huma> glx: it's System :)
18:59:45  <huma> anyway, sh is the winner
18:59:59  <Rubidium> it's Windows, so it HAS to be case insensitive
19:00:19  <huma> no, it's jvm :)
19:00:22  <Rafagd> not Java
19:01:05  <Rafagd> java accepts special characters in function names
19:01:42  <huma> i wonder how many java programmers aware of that :)
19:01:58  <Rafagd> i kind of imagine a japanese programmer creating a function
19:02:03  <Rafagd> with names in kanji
19:02:12  <Rafagd> =(
19:02:34  <huma> i'm not maintaining his code :)
19:02:41  <Rafagd> nor I
19:03:04  <huma> ok, food..
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19:16:32  <railmailsnail> hi
19:16:44  *** railmailsnail [rob@] has quit []
19:16:49  <Rubidium> bye
19:16:52  <Bjarni> that was brief
19:17:09  *** peterbrett [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:17:17  <Bjarni> kind of fits the name
19:17:29  <Bjarni> the mail is unreliable
19:17:37  <Bjarni> specially in the UK right now
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19:46:58  <Rafagd> ugh
19:48:01  <Bjarni> that's what I think every time I enter the suggestion forum by accident
19:48:50  <Eddi|zuHause> and civ4 does not want as i want it to
19:49:05  <Bjarni> who cares about civ4?
19:49:10  <Eddi|zuHause> with one option, the terrain is all black
19:49:13  <Bjarni> it's not open source
19:49:28  <Eddi|zuHause> with the next one, terrain shows, but has errors
19:49:31  <Bjarni>  <Eddi|zuHause> with one option, the terrain is all black <-- that's called "hidden terrain"
19:49:54  <Eddi|zuHause> and in the third option, the game hangs before showing anything (after load)
19:50:17  <Ammler> guys is it possible to see all server in the db, also those where aren't online atm?
19:50:42  <Ammler> I am looking for the server or something like that
19:51:49  <Rafagd> i can't  create the new building! =(
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19:57:28  *** Purno [] has quit [Quit: Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.]
20:00:28  <Rubidium> Ammler: Why?
20:04:26  <Ammler> Rubidium: was the best server on 0.4.8 time
20:04:44  <Ammler> I was wondering, if there is still a page or something...
20:05:01  <Ammler> are you sure about
20:07:00  <Rubidium> yup
20:07:10  <Rubidium> it's still of the same person
20:07:35  <Rubidium> well... he was working at some system related to voting back then and it has quite a lot of voting stuff on the site
20:08:39  <dihedral> Ammler
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20:16:38  <Rafagd> anyone has servers for the last revision? =\
20:16:59  <Rubidium> Rafagd: NO
20:17:08  <Rafagd> =(
20:17:13  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11200 /trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1291]: road vehicles could not overtake on one way roads going to the east.
20:17:27  <Rubidium> it's not like they can compile and start the last/latest revision in a few seconds
20:17:52  <Rafagd> Rubidium: lol, i've just saw that
20:17:55  * Rubidium notes that CIA-4 is more than 1 minute lagging behind.
20:19:01  <Rafagd> there are one way tracks?
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20:19:20  <Rafagd> roads*
20:20:05  <peterbrett> roads are sadly too lame for words :(
20:20:38  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11201 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1283]: minor issue with building one way roads one tile long. Patch by SmatZ.
20:22:19  <Rubidium> it's just more challenging to build a good road network
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20:25:08  <Bjarni> <-- huh... now that's what I call propaganda o_O
20:25:22  <Bjarni> leaving out important facts
20:26:07  <Bjarni> like stuff like this happened even before the privatisation, so keeping the railroad on the government's hands is not a way to ensure that stuff like this don't happen
20:26:11  <Bjarni> sadly :(
20:28:33  *** Hendikins is now known as Hendikins|Work
20:28:46  <Bjarni> in case you don't know, the accident they show air photos of were due to speeding... not just like 10%, but real speeding. No railroad will allow speeding like that since they know it will go wrong
20:28:50  * Hendikins|Work claps paws, squeals with glee, and bounces off to his first day
20:29:04  <Bjarni> Hendikins|Work: good luck
20:29:08  <Bjarni> and have a nice day
20:29:42  *** Diabolic-Angel [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:30:15  <ln-> Bjarni: har du programmerat med Carbon?
20:30:32  <Bjarni> nice to stay on topic :P
20:30:44  <Bjarni> ln-: not really :/
20:30:49  <ln-> m'kay
20:31:19  <Bjarni> maybe you should look into cocoa instead as it's the future
20:31:22  <Bjarni> carbon aren't
20:32:10  <ln-> i'm not trying to develop an application with Carbon directly, but trying to add a little feature into the carbon port of wxWidgets.
20:32:23  <Bjarni> ahh
20:32:38  <Bjarni> well
20:32:45  *** Peakki [] has quit [Quit: LÀhdössÀ]
20:32:59  <ln-> enabling click-through, that is.
20:33:11  <Bjarni> I should start by figuring out objC before messing way more with the OSX libraries
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20:41:23  <dihedral> Rubidium: how about adding the ability of sending a custom message to a client you kick...
20:41:43  *** Diabolic1Angel is now known as Diabolic-Angel
20:42:21  <Rubidium> dihedral: it's called "say"
20:44:32  <dihedral> lol
20:46:44  <Prof_Frink> dihedral: Even better, geolocate the IP you're kicking and pass that to the missile guidance system.
20:47:04  <dihedral> thanks...
20:47:25  <dihedral> i was more thinking along the lines of having a message appear in that beautiful little red message box :-)
20:48:58  <huma> ah, i love mountain arctic landscape :)
20:51:38  <Ammler> have you forests now?
20:53:21  <huma> yep :)
20:55:20  <Phazorx> arctic + mountain + highwater +ukrs + freightmultiplier x20 = fun challenge
20:56:00  <Rubidium> + PBI makes it even better ;)
20:56:11  <Phazorx> pbi?
20:56:23  <Rubidium> Pikka's Basic Industries ofcourse...
20:56:38  <Phazorx> ughm... and that works with ottd?
20:56:41  *** KouDy [~KouDy@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:57:11  <Rubidium> it works with *my* OTTD ;)
20:57:22  <Phazorx> that aint fair
20:57:31  <Phazorx> i want NI and ESC too
20:57:33  <Rubidium> or rather the one with Belugas *very* experimental patch ;)
20:57:37  <Rubidium> ESC?
20:57:42  <Phazorx> ECS
20:57:46  <Rubidium> that's crap ;)
20:58:04  <Phazorx> well that's fun - depends how u look at it
20:58:15  <Rubidium> well, rubber plantations making coal
20:58:35  <Phazorx> heh i'd say that's a quirk
20:58:38  <Phazorx> or perk
20:58:48  <Rubidium> major design flaw ;)
20:58:55  <Phazorx> will it be possible with NI for production to change overtime?
20:59:05  <Phazorx> type i mean
20:59:18  <Phazorx> and flexible output depending on amount and proportions of input?
20:59:32  <Rubidium> that's all depending on the writer of the GRF
20:59:42  <Belugas> and even change of cargo type!
20:59:50  <Phazorx> and that depends on base functionality provided
21:00:11  <Rubidium>,%206th%20May%201951.png <- that's what makes PBI more challenging
21:00:24  <Belugas> nope... it depends on the grf, since we provide almost all functionnalities
21:00:34  <Belugas> hehe
21:00:47  <Phazorx> Belugas: question was if what i had in mind is the functionality available...
21:00:47  <Belugas> Rubidium really lilkes this screenshot :D
21:00:52  <huma> pikka's basic industries? what's that?
21:00:54  <Rubidium>,%2017th%20Sep%202119.png <- that's like the train with the most useless order ;)
21:00:58  <Phazorx> Rubidium: so capacity is limitted?
21:01:36  <Belugas> Phazorx, you have to understand one thing.  You have the hability to make the stuff work the way you want.  You just have to know how to.
21:02:00  <Phazorx> Belugas: there are limtis tho
21:02:05  <Belugas> like?
21:02:16  <Phazorx> like for example current spec has no defined capacity so mines are endless
21:02:39  <Belugas> have you looked at Rubidium's first post?
21:02:43  <Belugas> image..
21:02:55  <Phazorx> Belugas: i did, after asking my question
21:03:01  <Phazorx> which is why i brought it up
21:03:07  <Phazorx> since i do not know much about NI, so i ask
21:03:09  <Belugas> the specs do not have to define a capacity, since it was never the case before.
21:03:28  <Phazorx> Belugas: my point exactly - that's why i asked what is possible now
21:03:54  <Belugas> so, why do you say there are limits?
21:04:05  <Belugas> In current trunk, nothing is possible.
21:04:10  <Rubidium> Phazorx: what do you mean with current spec?
21:04:16  <Phazorx> Rubidium: pre NI
21:04:25  <Phazorx> Belugas: well some things might not be possible even after NI
21:04:39  <Belugas> just waht I said: name one
21:04:45  <Belugas> the point is, the way it works,
21:05:08  <Phazorx> like for example i;d klike it up to player to upgrade stockpiling ability and througput of 2nd tier industries
21:05:28  <Phazorx> or 2/3rd tier cargo acceptance by town be proportional to population
21:06:58  <Rubidium> Phazorx: that last thing you could code with newindustries
21:07:07  <Phazorx> nice
21:07:12  <Phazorx> how about upgrades?
21:07:27  <Phazorx> or you just buld several factories next to eachother?
21:07:54  <Belugas> Phazorx, using callbacks, using the mechanisms available, there are quite a big amount of stuff you can do.
21:08:02  <Belugas> the only thing, is that you have to find wasy to do so
21:08:39  <Belugas> NI (and others) are like big block of legos.  They have been constructed, you have to assemble them
21:08:54  <Belugas> thus, you have to know what they do.
21:09:17  <Belugas> [17:07] <Phazorx> like for example i;d klike it up to player to upgrade stockpiling ability and througput of 2nd tier industries  <--- just bare in mind that it is done under the hood.
21:09:19  <Phazorx> that is veryy well understood, manipulation with basic elements to make complex structures
21:09:30  <Belugas> There are no interractions possible
21:09:41  <Belugas> yes, exactly
21:10:08  <Phazorx> but that is just logic, you can work it to your advatage in most cases
21:10:16  <Belugas> ?
21:10:21  <Phazorx> however data structure and storage is not changeable with logic
21:10:36  <Belugas> you have it wrong
21:10:49  <Phazorx> reason why thre are no capacity or stockpile now - there is no datastructure that holds and modifies that this time untill NI comes to play
21:10:49  <Belugas> NI is not just data structure and storage
21:10:58  <Phazorx> i know that :)
21:11:13  <Phazorx> but it has exra structure elements compared to std one
21:11:19  <Phazorx> which lets it do advanaced things
21:11:22  <Belugas> no...
21:11:30  <Belugas> it has callbacks
21:11:37  <Belugas> it has PROCESSES
21:11:40  <Phazorx> in that case how capacity is defined initialy?
21:12:13  <Phazorx> that mine on the picture has X amount of coal
21:12:34  <Phazorx> where is that bumber stored in vanila ottd now
21:12:37  <Belugas> there are no capacities
21:12:51  <Belugas> this is all the work of call backs storing values in registers
21:13:20  <Phazorx> that sounds like an expensive way to implement it, but i guess whatever works
21:13:44  <Phazorx> i kinda ssumed that for NI industry dataset is extended
21:13:52  <Belugas> nope
21:14:00  <Belugas> or at least very mildly
21:14:03  <Phazorx> to hold new variables, as well as engine is modified to maintain them according to new rules
21:14:20  <Rubidium> well.. with some general purpose memory, where the industries can do with whatever they want
21:14:34  <Rubidium> nothing more, nothing less
21:14:54  <Phazorx> in that case may i ask why is it done "on a fly" rather than as a part of main dataset for industries?
21:15:18  <Phazorx> the registers sound like temp data storage, which still need to be part of a save
21:15:37  <Rubidium> as I said, there are a few bytes saved in the savegame
21:15:49  <Rubidium> *but* those a "general purpose"
21:16:02  <Rubidium> so the GRF itself defines what to do with it, we do NOT define it
21:16:04  <Phazorx> gives more power to grf maker then i guess
21:16:11  <Belugas> but they are not solely reserved for NI, NI just uses them, it was there even begore
21:16:25  <Phazorx> sounds like ottdc++ is about to come to live :)
21:16:36  <Belugas> ...
21:16:56  <Phazorx> i mean grf spec evolves into relatively high level language
21:17:27  <Phazorx> like macro scripting language, with it's own variables on top of general structure
21:17:38  <Belugas> if you wish
21:17:43  <Belugas> gotta go
21:17:46  <Belugas> good night
21:17:53  <Phazorx> kinda computantionaly expensive way to do it but gives most power to artists/develoeprs i guess
21:17:54  * Sacro learns lex
21:18:04  <Phazorx> good night :)
21:18:07  <Phazorx> thanks for the info
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21:38:18  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:45:21  <Sacro`> he left :(
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21:51:05  *** Sacro` is now known as Sacro
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21:55:27  <Citadis300BsAs> Hello
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22:01:41  <Sacro> here's a good question
22:01:47  <Sacro> could i run an OpenTTD server on a VAX?
22:02:11  <DaleStan> Will OpenTTD compile on a VAX?
22:03:07  <DaleStan> If so, I expect you can run an Open server on a VAX.
22:03:08  <Sacro> DaleStan: i haven't yet tried :)
22:03:18  <Sacro> though there are 2 in the cupboard at Uni
22:03:39  <Sacro> as well as an impressive collection of other old systems
22:03:44  <Rafagd> what is a VAX? =D
22:04:14  <Sacro> Rafagd:
22:04:18  <DaleStan> You're better off than I, then. I have four x86-32 machines. All with GenuineIntel processors, I'm pretty sure.
22:04:36  <DaleStan> One of them does have Linux on it, though.
22:04:45  <Sacro> I have an AMD64 desktop, an x86_64 laptop, and a sparcstation 10
22:04:50  <DaleStan> (And one has no RAM.)
22:05:53  <Sacro> RAM is needed :)
22:06:05  <Sacro> we where fiddling around in a server earlier
22:06:14  <Sacro> trying to find another 2 cpus
22:06:20  <Sacro> to take it up to a 4x550Mhz
22:07:37  <Sacro> ooh
22:07:43  <Sacro> the new GP2X has a touchscreen
22:07:48  <Sacro> that'll be nice for portable OpenTTD
22:07:58  <Rafagd> omg
22:08:00  <Rafagd> is pretty old
22:08:20  <Rafagd> a 286 would run better?
22:08:28  <Sacro> depends
22:08:31  <Sacro> probably not
22:08:44  <Rafagd> um leaving for university
22:08:45  <Rafagd> bye
22:08:49  <Sacro> bye
22:08:54  *** Rafagd [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:08:56  <mcbane> laters rafagd
22:15:00  <Prof_Frink> Sacro: Does SDL run on VAXen?
22:15:14  <Sacro> err...
22:15:31  <Sacro> doesn't debian do an alpha release
22:16:25  <Sacro> OpenBSD should be  a good start
22:20:33  <Sacro> grrr
22:20:41  <Sacro> hate ambiguous coursework questions
22:20:53  <Sacro> What does IPR stand for
22:20:54  <Sacro>  	Institute for Potato Research (Poland)
22:20:57  <Sacro> i doubt...
22:22:25  <Prof_Frink> YES.
22:22:57  <Sacro> DaleStan: what would you say was the first microprocessor
22:23:01  <Sacro> he is knowledgeable
22:23:10  <Prof_Frink> Put the real asnwer, then "(also the Polish Institute for Potato Research)"
22:23:15  <Sacro> heheh :)
22:23:41  <DaleStan> No clue. Beyond recognizing the names, old hardware isn't really my thing.
22:23:50  <Sacro> well. it's either the Intel 4004, TI TMS 1000 or the CADC
22:24:16  <Prof_Frink> Sacro: To answer this question you may have to go to... that place
22:24:24  <Sacro> ah, the 4004 was released in 71
22:24:26  <Sacro> that place?
22:24:33  <Prof_Frink> Azeroth.
22:24:45  <Prof_Frink> To seek the man of patches.
22:24:48  <Sacro> "Azeroth is an Earth-like world in the fictional Warcraft universe"
22:24:53  <Sacro> oh... yes
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22:25:32  <Sacro> Which of the following is not a computer programming langauge
22:25:32  <Sacro> Ada Coral Eiffel Lisa Miranda
22:26:06  <Eddi|zuHause> yes.
22:26:07  <Sacro> well Ada is
22:26:19  <Sacro> coral66 is a language
22:26:30  <Prof_Frink> Ada is, Coral's a reef, Eiffel's a tower, Lisa's an apple computer and Miranda's a planet.
22:26:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i am pretty sure eiffel is
22:26:44  <Sacro> yep
22:26:56  <Prof_Frink> (fictional planet, real moon)
22:27:02  *** David_McMahon [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:27:15  <Sacro> LISA is Lazerware's Interactive Symbolic Assembler
22:27:29  <Eddi|zuHause> well that only leaves one
22:27:39  <Sacro>
22:27:43  <Sacro> but is that a language :s
22:27:51  <Sacro> cos it uses MOS 6502 assembler
22:28:12  <Sacro> and
22:28:15  <Sacro> pisses on that last idea
22:28:29  <Prof_Frink> Sacro: So, is your coursework "Learn to google"?
22:28:35  <Sacro> Prof_Frink: err...
22:28:39  <Sacro> wikipedia so far :p
22:28:48  <Sacro> ahh
22:28:53  <Prof_Frink> Check the Ips of recent edits
22:28:53  <Sacro> LISA is an environment, not a langauge
22:29:08  <Prof_Frink> See if it's your lecturer
22:29:08  <glx> eiffel is a lisp thing
22:29:14  <glx> IIRC
22:29:25  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, something like that...
22:29:26  <Sacro> glx: yes, possibly
22:29:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i only know i heard the name
22:29:40  <Sacro> hahah
22:29:46  <Sacro> i think someone may have used the name
22:29:52  <Sacro> thus rendering his question unanswerable
22:30:57  <Prof_Frink> Sacro: Find real (non-wikipedia) references for all of them being languages
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22:31:15  <Sacro>
22:31:19  <Sacro> is miranda
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22:57:17  <Sacro> What is the connection between modern computer communication and an early Scandinavian
22:57:18  <Sacro> nobleman?
22:57:22  <Sacro> would that be beowulf?
22:57:31  *** dihedral [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
23:01:17  *** gfldex [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:04:35  <glx> bluetooth
23:09:44  <Sacro> was he an early scandanavian?
23:09:58  <Sacro> ooh
23:10:00  <Sacro> 910
23:10:01  <Sacro> that is early
23:10:06  <Sacro> its 12:10 now
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23:12:47  <SmatZ> 01:12...
23:12:48  <SmatZ> bye
23:12:52  *** SmatZ [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
23:13:17  <ln-> 910 is earlier than 12:10
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23:39:51  <Jasperthecat1> Hi
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23:49:10  <Eddi|zuHause> bye
23:53:06  <Sacro> oh
23:53:26  <Sacro> Who where "The Bunch" and why did they oppose "Big Blue"?
23:53:34  <Sacro> i know BB = IBM
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