Log for #openttd on 12th October 2007:
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00:43:57  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r11247 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Fix: The Industry's name to fund could be larger than the window itself. Now, it fits within the physical allowed space
00:58:50  <huma> Belugas: i use lucida console 11 and it doesn't fit the line height
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02:11:13  <mattt__> anyone know the ratio of trains/tile?
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06:56:47  <FR^2> Good morning (here at least)
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07:23:32  <dihedral|away> morning ladies
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10:25:24  * dihedral|work wonders if he as ever mentioned that people here are way too silent
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10:26:47  <FR^2> dihedral|work: Hmm. What do you suppose should one answer to "morning ladies"?
10:27:15  <boekabart> dihedral|work: no work to do? :p
10:27:21  <dihedral|work> at least "(?:good\s)?morning"
10:28:07  <FR^2> dihedral|work: Does the idea of a channel full of bncs disturb you?
10:28:41  <dihedral|work> i just look for distraction :)
10:32:33  <boekabart> dihedral|work: that's what I referred to
10:33:14  <dihedral|work> you asked me if i have work to do... and i do
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11:10:16  <mcbane> afternoon.
11:10:56  <FR^2> hiho
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11:48:29  <orudge> "YouTube link == Ban"?
11:48:31  <orudge> !Logs
11:48:33  <SpComb> Logs: (old: )
11:48:33  <orudge> !logs
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12:28:41  <skidd13> Hi
12:29:05  <mcbane> huhu
12:29:11  <SpComb> oink
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12:31:48  <mcbane> huhu
12:31:50  <mcbane> ups
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12:38:11  <Ammller> what does "closed" mean in FS?
12:38:19  <Ammller> solved or won't be solved?
12:39:42  <Noldo> I think there is separate Won't fix
12:41:07  <Ammller> oh, in my case, its solved... :)
12:41:18  <skidd13> Ammller: There should be an aditional comment "Reason for closing:  Fixed" that describes it.
12:41:37  <skidd13> s/aditional/additional/
12:41:49  <Ammller> yes, just saw it
12:42:03  <Ammller> I need to look in the commit comment
12:42:27  <Ammller> !openttd commit 11191
12:42:29  <_42_> Commit by glx :: r11191 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp (2007-10-01 18:59:25 UTC)
12:42:31  <_42_> -Fix [FS#1227]: GLS_ACTIVATION stage must be done immediatly after GLS_RESERVE stage, before the GLS_RESERVE stage for the next newgrf.
12:42:48  <glx> needs 11196 also :)
12:42:48  <Ammller> hmm...
12:43:00  <Ammller> ah :)
12:43:19  <blathijs> GLS?
12:43:19  <Ammller> !openttd commit 11196
12:43:21  <_42_> Commit by glx :: r11196 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp (2007-10-02 20:20:14 UTC)
12:43:23  <_42_> -Fix (r11191): _cur_stage was incorrect for GLS_ACTIVATION stage
12:43:59  <glx> grf loading stage blathijs
12:44:01  <Ammller> glx: did my nothing.grf help ?
12:44:06  <glx> yes
12:44:08  <blathijs> glx: ah, tnx
12:44:20  <glx> Ammller: it worked with 11191
12:47:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> how would i go and install TTDP with wine? (for grf testing)
12:47:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, i might still have a TTD directory from windows times...
12:47:57  <glx> you need it :)
12:48:50  <Ammller> Eddi|zuHause2: a small howto:
12:56:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> ~/spiele/Tycoon5> wine ttdpatchw.exe
12:56:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> Unknown language 'de_DE.UTF-8' specified in the environment
12:56:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> variable LANG or LANGUAGE. Known languages:
12:58:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> c:\windows\system32\wcmd.exe /C COPY GAMEGFX.EXE TTDLOADW.OVL >nul
12:58:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> Konnte c:\windows\system32\wcmd.exe nicht ausfï¿œhren.
12:59:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, i assume case sensitivity...
13:01:50  <Ammller> Eddi|zuHause2: I guess you also need the to give the parameter -y for skipping version questions...
13:02:55  <FR^2> Hmm. I have a question concerning development organization of openttd... The nightly builds have very different features implemented, isn't it? So when in one nightly e.g. it is possible to buy a larger area of land by dragging the mouse, in the current builds this feature isn't implemented any more?
13:03:48  <Noldo> I don't remember other features being removed from nighlies other than pbs
13:04:25  <Phazorx> perhaps some bugs are classified as features before removed?
13:04:35  <Noldo> releases don't have all the bleeding edge features, but that's quite natural I think
13:05:06  <Ammller> Phazorx: which is?
13:05:42  <Phazorx> Ammller: i dont think i have any examples
13:05:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> FR^2: releases have all features the nightly had in last december
13:05:57  <FR^2> Hmm. No, I'm only talking about the nightly builds, not the releases.
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13:06:27  <Phazorx> Ammller: how's the pack coming along btw?
13:06:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> FR^2: maybe you used one of the various "Integrated" builds
13:06:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> FR^2: drag-buying land was never feature of a nightly
13:07:00  <FR^2> Hmm.
13:07:14  <Ammller> FR^2: there is patch for "your" feature and they are in INs like Mini or Chris
13:07:17  <Phazorx> FR^2: perpas you are talking about miniIN or ChrisIN?
13:07:32  <FR^2> Then I was mistaken, I thought I read it in the forums somewhere.
13:08:07  <Ammller> Phazorx: I have still no 10.3 on my pc
13:08:17  <Phazorx> what's 10.3?
13:08:27  <skidd13> I assume OpenSuSE
13:08:34  <Ammller> openSUSE
13:08:45  <skidd13> :9
13:08:45  <Phazorx> is that prerequisite for coop grf pack 6?
13:09:20  <Ammller> :), yes, at least it was yesterday
13:09:29  <Ammller> but I guess, I will stay on 10.2
13:10:00  <Ammller> I am to lazy for new installation and upgrade won't work
13:10:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> wine: Unhandled page fault on write access to 0x00000001 at address 0x603d07 (thread 0026), starting debugger...
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13:13:17  <Phazorx> Ammller: may i ask what feat6ures of .3 are so criticaly important to you, so you decided to spend your time upgrading?
13:15:04  <Ammller> hmm, just courious about it, nothing special
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13:15:33  <Ammller> oh, the new kernel, I need the USB support for my mobile phone
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13:16:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> whenever i try to update to a new kernel, something fails
13:16:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> i now managed to get the modules right, so it recognises my SATA disk
13:16:44  <Ammller> thats why I only like to update with distros
13:16:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> but now i get wrong emty space values
13:17:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> or at least writing sometimes fails with "disk full", when df reports 3GB free
13:17:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> Ammller: i have a distro
13:17:52  <Ammller> I updated on spring to 22 or 21 and usb works, but had problems with wlan then
13:17:58  <Ammller> so I went pack to 18
13:18:14  <Ammller> I mean I update the kernel, when I update the distro
13:20:04  <FR^2> Well, seems I'm totally confused about the development organization concerning changes / feature requests etc. *shrug*
13:20:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> FR^2:
13:20:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> svn log?
13:22:01  <FR^2>
13:22:50  <glx> Reason for closing:  Won't implement
13:22:50  <glx> Additional comments about closing:  By policy we do not want this tool
13:23:10  <glx> so you won't see it in nighlies or releases
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13:24:01  <FR^2> glx: Oh now I read that,too. *g* Okay, okay, thanks for the hints :)
13:24:29  <glx> but as the comment says, it was in MiniIN
13:24:31  <hylje> DO NOT WANT
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13:26:29  <FR^2> glx: Exactly that was the information I overlooked :)
13:27:18  <Ammller> hmm, btw, its a clientside patch, so you can patch your client and play on MP
13:27:30  <Ammller> with the advantage of it
13:27:48  <glx> it sends a bunch of CMD_BUY_LAND?
13:27:56  <hylje> eww
13:28:08  <glx> that's stupid
13:28:12  <Ammller> I thought so, long time ago, I tried
13:28:49  <Ammller> same with c&p patch
13:29:12  <glx> well c&p can't work differently
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13:29:36  <glx> but buy land could send only one command with start and end
13:30:26  <Phazorx> glx: I got an idea for nifty MP feature
13:30:27  <glx> needs a modified server though
13:31:07  <Phazorx> idea similar to "ping" command in some MP RTOS to get attention to some area - server broadcasted scrollto event
13:31:15  <Phazorx> sent as newsarticle
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13:31:36  <FR^2> Ammller: Maybe I will try that. I'm not that familiar with the internals, I even haven't tried out other graphics sets, yet
13:32:36  <Ammller> hmm, wasn't meant, youj should try it :)
13:33:17  <Phazorx> FR^2: looks change quite a bit, and grf bring not only grapfics
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14:36:18  <ln-> how could i generate a UML diagram (or similar) of all the dependencies in a program? (based on source code)
14:37:27  <ln-> doxygen+graphviz is otherwise sufficient, but it doesn't show _all_ classes in one picture.
14:39:35  * dihedral|work wants to go home...
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15:06:01  <skidd13> Any dev comments to 1328
15:06:02  <skidd13> ?
15:09:47  <Belugas> nice cleaning
15:09:52  <Belugas> lots of lines to read
15:10:05  <Belugas> you're good at doing lots of lines of code :D
15:11:14  <Belugas> BRSW_PLAT_<xxx> is a bit obscure as a name.  my opinion
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15:11:34  * dihedral|work greets Belugas
15:12:59  <Belugas> hey :)
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15:14:23  <Belugas> apart from that, skidd13, seems to be going the rigth way
15:14:28  <Belugas> from quick reading
15:14:44  <dihedral|work> any outlook on getting towns grf'able at some point? :-P
15:14:51  <skidd13> Belugas: I agree that there can be a better name, but I hate too_long_names
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15:15:27  <skidd13> dihedral|work: what do you need?
15:15:35  <Belugas> dihedral|work: who knows
15:16:05  <dihedral|work> skidd13: like with new industries, a factory can only accept so 'n so much of any raw material
15:16:25  <dihedral|work> i would like to see a town only able to accept so 'n so much pax, water, food, goods
15:17:00  <dihedral|work> that would then make people distribute food, water, goods across more towns, rather than just dumping stuff in one town
15:17:10  <dihedral|work> which then would make more towns grow
15:17:50  <dihedral|work> + you get more realism
15:18:08  <dihedral|work> nobody dumps 40k passangers a month in a 3k town
15:18:23  <Belugas> [11:20] <dihedral|work> + you get more realism  <---  that is the best argument one could give me for NOT dong it :D
15:18:34  <dihedral|work> LOL
15:18:50  <dihedral|work> Belugas: it adds complexity to the game, making it more challenging
15:19:04  <dihedral|work> how do you like that
15:19:22  <Belugas> skidd13 : so it's the challenge to find better and still short name ;)
15:19:33  <skidd13> dihedral|work: there is a branch for the rewrite of the economy you kow.
15:19:41  <dihedral|work> is there?
15:19:51  <skidd13> Belugas: yup :( :| :) :D
15:20:11  <Belugas> dihedral|work: i have some ideas on that, but nothing clear yet.  Problem is that currently, towns have nothhing really special to make grf-able, as you mentionned.
15:20:25  <Belugas> but it would eventually be faisable, on the basis of town-models
15:20:50  <glx> towns don't accept anything anyway
15:21:23  <skidd13> dihedral|work: svn://
15:21:28  <dihedral|work> nice
15:21:34  <dihedral|work> thanks skidd13 i'll have a look
15:21:57  <skidd13> but there haven't been commits recently IIRC
15:24:29  <skidd13> Belugas: BRSW_PLAT_<xxx> Do you have more problems with BRSW or with PLAT?
15:24:42  <Belugas> PLAT
15:24:55  <skidd13> :%s /PLAT/PLATFORM/g
15:25:20  <Belugas> although, yes, BRSW is a bit obscur if you do not see the name of the enum
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15:26:40  <skidd13> uppercase -> "BuildRailStationWidget_PLATFORM_NUM_X" is really to long ;)
15:27:41  <frosch123> Hhm, shouldn't BRSW_PLATFORM_NUMBER and BRSW_PLATFORM_LENGTH suffice? (like BRSw_PLATFORM_NUMBER + 5 instead of BRSW_PLAT_LEN_5)
15:27:49  <frosch123> They are used in computation anyway.
15:28:59  <glx> I don't think switch likes case x+y:
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15:29:56  * frosch123 misses ranges in cases like in Delphi :)
15:30:12  * Belugas nods
15:30:31  <glx> or strings in cases like in VB :)
15:30:39  <Belugas> that is evil!
15:30:53  <Belugas> but cool :D
15:31:48  <skidd13> IMO I should replace some of the "BRSW_PLATFORM_DIR_Y" with "BRSW_PLATFORM_NUM_1 - 1" cause then the widgets could be treated more dynamic, but thats a damned additional calculation...
15:32:21  <skidd13> evil is cool, if it is documented enough... :D
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15:34:16  <Belugas> agreed :)
15:35:31  <skidd13> The diff of my patch sucks, cause it let the patch appear so huge. But thats a general problem :(
15:37:16  <Belugas> one way to solve it, i think, would be to go one window per patch
15:37:27  <Belugas> not basing work on a file
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15:38:35  <skidd13> That solves the result not the problem ;) I need a word based diff not a line based.
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15:55:12  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r11248 /trunk/src/newgrf_commons.cpp:
15:55:12  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Fix[FS#1314]: The logic behind industry slot allocation was implying that the only condition an override could be placed in a slot is that there were no previous override.
15:55:12  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: That is not exact: the slot must not have been occupied by an industry coming from a grf.
15:55:12  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: So now, tourist center is available if more then one grf is used
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15:57:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> <glx> I don't think switch likes case x+y: <- as long as x und y are const, that should be fine... but i'm not a C expert...
15:58:12  <toresbe> glx: not a problem at all
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16:29:22  <Wolf01> hello
16:29:36  <LeviathNL> hi
16:31:24  <LeviathNL> hmm where can i find Whitehand's Tourist Set, his is only giving php-errors
16:31:30  <LeviathNL> his site
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16:32:34  <LeviathNL> oh wait, /drupal is giving errors, /wordpress works
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16:46:48  <dihedral> huhu
16:55:36  <Ailure> lo
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16:55:38  <Ailure> lol
16:55:43  <Ailure> I read that was Whitehand's tourettes set
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16:58:08  <dihedral> what ya guys say to a custom penalty rail tile?
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17:00:42  <Ailure> hmm?
17:00:44  <Ailure> how would it work
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17:04:49  <Bjarni> if a train tries to figure out if it should use the track, it will get a custom penalty for using it
17:05:07  <Bjarni> or something
17:07:47  <LeviathNL> when constructing industries  that require to be buikd within a minimal distance of a town Openttd seems to measure from the center of the city. Is this intended behaviour?
17:08:03  <glx> yes
17:08:59  <dihedral> yes
17:09:07  <LeviathNL> ok
17:09:10  <dihedral> something like a wp that you can add a penalty to
17:09:10  <Bjarni> yes
17:09:21  <dihedral> sorry - responding to something else LeviathNL
17:10:05  <dihedral> Ailure: so that you are not limited to building stations in the middle of nowhere for a whopping huge penalty or rows of roadcrossings for smaller ones
17:10:15  <Bjarni> dihedral: I figured as much and it sounds like an idea. Sort of like the signs, but maybe a bit easier to use
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17:10:41  <dihedral> at least for those people who somewhat understand yapf :-P
17:10:49  <dihedral> hello skidd13
17:10:50  <Bjarni> hehe
17:10:54  <Ailure> heh
17:10:56  <Bjarni> hi skidd13
17:11:00  <skidd13> Hi
17:11:04  <Ailure> I sorta understand how YAPF works in theory
17:11:15  <hylje> aww
17:11:16  <Bjarni>  <dihedral> at least for those people who somewhat understand yapf :-P <-- we don't care for the rest :P
17:11:39  <Ailure> at least in theory
17:11:45  <Bjarni> I mean we don't care for people who can't figure out that a higher number will decrease the chance of a train to use this route
17:11:50  <Ailure> I know the math behind it, but don't ask me reproducing it into openTTD or anything
17:11:51  <Ailure> :)
17:12:08  <Bjarni> I wouldn't code it either
17:12:47  <dihedral> yes - it would be a pain to code i guess
17:14:56  <Bjarni> but you just said that you want to code a waypoint with a penalty
17:15:08  <Bjarni> would be interesting to give it a negative penalty :)
17:15:24  <dihedral> LOL
17:15:31  <Belugas> and graphically?  How to represent it?
17:15:36  <Ailure> well
17:15:40  <Ailure> I remember something like that being done
17:15:48  <Ailure> with speed signs or something
17:16:03  <dihedral> speed signs are something else
17:16:08  <Ailure> no
17:16:11  <Ailure> it wasn't really speed signs
17:16:12  <Ailure> more like
17:16:17  <Ailure> fast trains would prefer a lane
17:16:21  <Ailure> and slow trains would prefer another lane
17:16:26  <Ailure> it affected the pathfinding
17:16:35  <Ailure> by increasing or decreasing penatly depending on the trainspeed
17:16:40  <dihedral> lol
17:16:51  <Bjarni> so if the train use the strait track, it's only 15 tiles, but if it turns and make the 200 tile detour, then it will have a lower penalty because of the negative penalties.... yeah, this is how real life railroads works
17:17:23  <dihedral> "we appologize for the 2 hour delay, due to ..."
17:17:25  <dihedral> YAPF
17:17:29  <dihedral> :-P
17:17:33  <Ailure> heh
17:17:48  <Ailure> I really love how how a train can get stuck at a terminus station in YAPF
17:17:48  <Ailure> if lost
17:17:50  <dihedral> and the additional running cost
17:17:58  <Bjarni> I once got a like 10 km detour... they didn't want me to pass a certain switch
17:18:02  <Ailure> since the train can't find a path to it's destination
17:18:16  <Ailure> it kept going forward
17:18:44  <Ammler> something like this routemarker signals?
17:18:58  <Ailure> and it kept trying to enter a busy lane at the station
17:19:00  <dihedral> NCIE
17:19:03  <Ailure> I swear that's my most common deadlock :/
17:19:24  <dihedral> how do they work Ammler
17:19:25  <Ailure> reqalized later it was partly due to my stupidty though
17:19:38  <Bjarni> I don't think the colours selected to be NCIE
17:19:41  <Ammler> just give penalty to the color
17:20:08  <Ammler> you can define train, which color should not give penalty or which more
17:20:19  <Ammler> don't know exactly
17:20:38  <dihedral> heh
17:20:38  <Ammler> I agree Bjarni
17:20:56  <Ammler> I rather would like the programmable signals
17:21:18  <Bjarni> in fact if it's a waypoint, then displaying them as signals would be wrong
17:21:23  <Bjarni> they should be signs
17:21:25  <hylje> programmable signal systems!
17:21:47  <Ammler> Bjarni: they aren't waypoints
17:21:48  <dihedral> pss
17:21:56  <Bjarni> I know
17:21:58  <dihedral> Bjarni: they dont have to be waypoints
17:22:09  <Phazorx> i'd like "reactional signals" with definable signal block, like if there is a train anywhere between here and here - go red
17:22:17  <Ammler> the train don't have to pass the signal
17:22:21  <dihedral> just something where you get a field box when clicking it and being able to ender 300 or 1000 if you like
17:22:23  <Bjarni> but the idea is that the tile gives an additional penalty of a condition is met (or not met)
17:22:29  <Bjarni> which would make it a sign, not a signal
17:22:53  <Ammler> waypoints are rubbish, btw.
17:23:06  <Bjarni> waypoints are flawed by design
17:23:17  <Phazorx> Bjarni: pentaly as a change in prefernce of certain path or profibit some choices entirely?
17:23:21  <dihedral> why is that
17:23:40  <Bjarni> they are limited to one tile only
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17:23:42  <Bjarni> by design
17:24:00  <Ailure> I love the cargo announcments
17:24:03  <Bjarni> Phazorx: yes. You wouldn't need a signal to do that
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17:24:22  <Ailure> it flipflops between "Finstock Steel mill accepts coal" "Finstock steel mill no longer accepts coal"
17:24:26  <Phazorx> that was an "or" question
17:24:41  <Bjarni> Ailure: make a bug report
17:24:52  <Ailure> that's hardly a bug
17:25:01  <Ailure> it's telling the truth
17:25:08  <Ailure> it's just that it stops being true rather quickly
17:25:16  <Bjarni> the bug is that it turns the coal acceptance on and off
17:25:23  <Bjarni> if it keeps doing that
17:25:28  <dihedral> Ailure: stop delivering as fast
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17:25:33  <dihedral> or open a nother steel mill
17:25:39  <Ailure> Even better
17:25:44  <Ailure> I need to give it more iron ore
17:25:46  <Ailure> :/
17:25:49  <Ailure> it's hard to balance
17:26:10  <Bjarni> then it's good that you are using conventional rails and not monorail
17:26:22  <Bjarni> out of balanced monorails would suck
17:26:34  <dihedral> yes
17:27:06  <dihedral> Ailure: you would have to ballence that with the amount of coal mines you serve and the amount of iron ore mines you serve
17:27:12  <dihedral> not with the amount of trains
17:27:13  <Ailure> eyp
17:27:16  <Ailure> Yep
17:27:17  <Ailure> I know
17:27:23  <Ailure> the ratio was something like
17:27:38  <Ailure> I think you need one coal for every other iron ore
17:27:44  <Ailure> I'm giving it too much coal
17:28:06  <Bjarni> lucky for you it's OpenTTD
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17:28:15  <Bjarni> this issue would really suck in SimuTrans
17:28:58  <Ailure> lol
17:30:45  <Bjarni> in SimuTrans if the steel mill demands 1 coal and one iron, then it will take away one coal and one iron at the same time. If you flood it with coal and no iron, then the input buffer for coal would fill up and once it's full, it will not accept coal until something is removed from the buffer
17:31:01  <Bjarni> I think we should implement this to get realistic behaviour
17:31:05  <Bjarni> and to annoy Ailure
17:31:31  <hylje> :o
17:31:50  <Ailure> :P
17:32:02  <glx> Bjarni: already doable with new industries I think
17:32:03  <Ailure> earlier in this game I almost had the opposite problem
17:32:06  <Ailure> too much iron ore
17:32:15  <hylje> unpossible..
17:32:53  <Ailure> actually seems like it was balanced
17:33:00  <Ailure> ...i just had a deadlock at a iron ore source
17:33:04  <Bjarni> glx: that's possible. I didn't really test new industries yet
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17:40:39  * Belugas confirms glx's saying
17:40:57  <Belugas> pikkabird uses it a lot
17:41:12  <Belugas> called stockpilling (i think)
17:42:09  <Belugas> you deliver coal.  nice.  but nothing happens until you deliver iron ore too.  THEN  and only then can the indu produces steel
17:42:13  <Belugas> just an example
17:43:29  <dihedral> yes
17:43:34  <dihedral> i quite like that feature
17:43:41  <dihedral> adds complexity
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18:14:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> re: custom penalty, i have said this multiple times, as a first step, one could put a waypoint, and enter something resembling "cargo==freight?500:10"
18:14:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> as the waypoint name
18:15:09  *** Frostregen [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:15:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> then, in yapf or npf code, if you hit a waypoint tile, you parse the name
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18:15:33  <Bjarni> sounds like a hack
18:15:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> you can later replace that by a real scripting interface
18:15:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> like squirrel
18:16:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> it
18:16:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> 's not a hack
18:16:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's a proof of concept
18:17:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> the real challenge will be to implement something to create squirrel code from within the game
18:18:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> either a sufficiently powerful GUI
18:18:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> or an edit box to enter code directly
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18:18:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> but the changes to YAPF should not be more than a few lines of code
18:21:16  <boekabart> programmable signals?
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18:30:29  <Wolf01> uhm... newindustries close too randomly
18:31:35  <Sacro> Wolf01: too randomly?
18:32:00  <Wolf01> yes, they are producing at good rates and suddenly close
18:32:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> boekabart: no, more like programmable route penalties
18:32:37  <Wolf01> raw industries are a pain.. you find them, start a profitable route, and then they close
18:33:01  <Wolf01> i can understand secondary industries.. but raw ones
18:33:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> Wolf01: set industries to stable?
18:34:25  <Wolf01> economy: fluctuating, inflation: on
18:34:56  <Wolf01> but with NI is really more difficult than the normal game
18:35:03  <skidd13> good night
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18:37:18  <Wolf01> and all fishing grounds, except one, closed their activity.. but they are still present on the map
18:37:45  <Wolf01> or better, they are producing, but the station sign disappeared
18:39:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> that sounds weird
18:39:58  <blathijs> Eddi|zuHause2: Very interesting idea (custom penalties)
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18:54:36  <Belugas> Wolf01: any peculiar? or in general?
18:54:55  <Belugas> ECS as well as PBI?
18:54:55  <Wolf01> in general
18:55:02  <Wolf01> ah, no, ECS
18:55:24  <Wolf01> i want to try PBI tomorrow
18:55:39  <Wolf01> since ECS is toooooooo complex
18:58:42  <Belugas> it is a bit complex, indeed
18:58:50  <Belugas> PBI was much easier to work with
19:00:49  <Belugas> Wolf01, i know it is hard, but try to get a pattern.  Like year of closing...
19:00:52  <Belugas> been servied or not
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19:01:07  <Belugas> if producing, how much
19:01:09  <Belugas> since when
19:01:12  <Belugas> stuff like that
19:03:50  <Belugas> in fact, anything
19:04:30  <Belugas> it does not help when there are so many grfs loaded at once, tough
19:05:00  <Wolf01> for example my tinner industry accepted only 85t of steel, and was served for 19 years by 5 trucks of fish which carried the fish from the dock to the industry, not so well served, but at least to keep it open until the new railroad is finished
19:05:20  <Wolf01> the problem is that there is no livestock :|
19:06:02  <Wolf01> and i think that is the cause for it closing
19:07:49  <Wolf01> lolz, try italian :D
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19:24:29  <Wolf01> XDDD
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20:15:28  <Bjarni> damn you guys really don't feel like talking tonight
20:15:34  <Bjarni> next person to idle will be kicked!
20:16:19  <SpComb> <-- Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
20:16:48  * Bjarni regrets saying anything
20:17:22  <hylje> Bjarni: AAAAAAAA AAAA A AAAAAA :D
20:18:48  <SpComb> Chicken chicken chicken -->
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20:21:37  <Bjarni> o_O
20:21:56  * Bjarni really regrets saying anything
20:26:27  <ln-> YouTube link == Ban
20:26:47  <SpComb> it's not a youtube link
20:27:16  <Wolf01> XD
20:27:24  <ln-> technically not
20:28:17  <SpComb> it's hard to define exactly what a is or is not a "YouTube link", so your policy needs to be expressed more clearly
20:31:01  <ln-> any link == ban
20:32:24  <SpComb> and if one doesn't use a client that turns URLs into clickable links?
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20:37:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> it does not really matter what "one" uses... it rather matters what "The Operator" uses
20:37:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> [note that capitalisation is used to support an emphasis]
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20:41:55  <Bjarni> I find it hard to locate youtube links
20:42:11  <Ailure> one question about newindustries
20:42:18  <Ailure> if two newindustries accepts the same cargo
20:42:24  <Bjarni> I find it a really tricky rule to obey and ensure that everybody obeys
20:42:26  <Ailure> is there anything that influences the priotery
20:43:17  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: miham * r11249 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
20:43:17  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-10-12 22:42:24
20:43:17  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: afrikaans - 110 fixed, 141 changed by TrueTenacity (251)
20:43:17  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: catalan - 1 fixed by arnaullv (1)
20:43:17  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: czech - 1 fixed by Hadez (1)
20:43:19  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: french - 1 fixed by glx (1)
20:43:19  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: slovak - 1 fixed by lengyel (1)
20:43:59  <Ailure> like I want to uhm
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20:45:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> what do you mean by priority?
20:46:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> you mean if they are in the catchment area of the same station?
20:48:22  <Ailure> well yes
20:48:32  <Ailure> like I want brickworks to take most of the gravel
20:48:45  <Ailure> but a engineers yard to take any surplus in meanwhile as I yet have to do a clay pit line D:
20:49:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, i don't think that is possible
20:50:06  <Ailure> mm understandable
20:50:28  <Ailure> well
20:50:33  <Ailure> i'm sitll cruious though
20:50:38  <Ailure> if it's divided between all industries
20:50:39  <Ailure> or heh
20:51:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> there recently was a commit about that
20:51:14  <Ailure> oh?
20:51:35  <Ailure> which one >_>
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20:56:09  <Greyscale> I keep reading Eddi|zuHause2 as Eddi the horse
20:56:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> you, sir, are a sick person
20:56:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> Ailure: i can't find it
20:58:03  <Ailure> sure youdidn't misread anything heh
20:58:05  <Ailure> can't find it either
20:58:16  <Ailure>  what was it supposed to do
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20:59:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> i am pretty sure i read something about "improve the way cargo is delivered to industries if more than one is in the catchment radius of the station"
21:02:03  <Ailure> ah
21:02:04  <Ailure> ah
21:02:07  <Ailure> there's a clay pit
21:02:09  <Ailure> bloody hard to find
21:02:11  <Ailure> small as hell on map
21:02:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> there need to be filters for the industry list
21:02:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> like "show me all farms"
21:03:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> or "show me all industries that produce or accept coal"
21:03:06  <Ailure> someone did something like that already
21:03:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> there are filters for the vehicle lists
21:03:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> they just have to be ported
21:03:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> or the station list
21:05:07  <Ailure> I mean on the forums
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21:23:17  <julius> hello
21:24:55  <julius> I have a problem with the version of openttd I'm using. The airplanes and the boats are not giving money at the end of the year :/ Do you know if this problem is known and if it is solved in the recent versions of the game ?
21:25:10  <julius> I'm using openttd 0.5.3-1
21:25:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> what do you mean money at end of year?
21:25:55  <julius> hmm... (i'm not a native speaker)
21:25:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> you get money whenever you delver something, that has nothing to do with years
21:26:11  <julius> I know but I don't know how to explain it in an other way :p
21:26:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> provide a savegame?
21:26:47  <julius> When a plane lands, It shows the money it has won
21:27:04  <julius> hmmm
21:27:09  <julius> I'm going to make a screenshot I think
21:27:34  <glx> what is the color of this money?
21:29:08  <julius> wait, I've just make the screenshot, let me show you what I mean
21:34:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> gnah, i need bendy stations...
21:35:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> there's no way you manage to place 10 tile stations in mountaneous territory
21:36:28  <julius>
21:36:51  <julius>
21:36:52  <julius> sorry
21:37:24  <Bjarni> <-- I'm a minority :o
21:38:10  <Bjarni> julius: huh
21:38:15  <Bjarni> that looks... wrong
21:38:30  <Ailure> ...the black arrow looks like a penis
21:38:31  <Ailure> dude
21:38:34  <Bjarni> like it's in French or Italian or something
21:38:46  <Wolf01> its french
21:38:48  <Ailure> :<
21:39:12  <Bjarni> Ailure: what?
21:39:14  <julius> haha... That's an arrow, not a penis :D
21:39:23  <Bjarni> actual size?
21:39:26  <Ailure> don't use as thick pen
21:39:27  <Ailure> :p
21:39:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> julius: make sure you are not using "transfer" orders
21:39:41  <julius> that's just to show where the problem is
21:39:55  <Rafagd> Bjarni: Is Openttd imune to Chocolate bars?
21:39:57  <Rafagd> !
21:39:58  <julius> Eddi|zuHause2, I think I am Oo What's the problem with that ?
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21:40:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> julius: use transfer orders if you want to reroute the cargo to another station later
21:40:36  <Bjarni> julius: the transfer function is kind of... not well
21:40:42  <Bjarni> you see, it was never really finished
21:40:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> you must not use transfer at the target station
21:40:56  *** gynterk [] has quit []
21:41:07  <Wolf01> 'night
21:41:15  <Bjarni> Rafagd: sure
21:41:16  <julius> ok, so that was a stupid question :D thanks for your help :)
21:41:16  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
21:41:43  <Rafagd> Bjarni: lucky!
21:48:48  <dihedral> signs are not deleted when the company is removed?
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21:50:10  <Bjarni> Rafagd: actually it's more like the fact that I'm incorruptible
21:50:51  <Rafagd> omg!
21:50:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> you say that now, wait if you hold The One Ring in your hands
21:52:05  <Bjarni> huh?
21:52:27  <Bjarni> are you saying that I will end up in a shotgun wedding or something?
21:53:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> err... that is not exactly what i meant...
21:53:30  <Bjarni> then you should make it more clear
21:54:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> i honestly don't know how to make LOTR references any more clear than that :p
21:54:15  <Bjarni> oh like that
21:54:23  <Bjarni> well
21:54:37  <Bjarni> you would still be unable to bribe me
21:54:39  <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause2: it was clear
21:54:48  <dihedral> Bjarni: lol
21:55:27  <Bjarni> I was thinking of a wedding ring and thought about how a wedding could corrupt me...
21:55:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> julius: this is a station where you typically use "transfer" orders:,%2024.%20Dez%201939.png
21:56:07  <Bjarni> LOL. For a good laugh, find some Japanese text on the internet and give it to babelfish
21:56:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> the short wood trains gather wood from the forests in the hillst
21:56:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> -t
21:56:17  <Bjarni> reading the kanji makes more sense :D
21:56:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> and the long trains bring the wood to the far distant saw mill
21:57:51  <julius> ok I understand, thank you very moch for the example :)
21:58:43  <julius> much*
21:59:06  <Ailure> ??????
21:59:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> chicken chicken chicken.
21:59:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> what's that many question marks useful for?
22:00:12  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause2: you want to play chicken?
22:00:13  <Bjarni> ok
22:00:23  *** Eddi|zuHause2 was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [You chickened out. I won]
22:00:56  *** Eddi|zuHause2 [] has joined #openttd
22:01:01  <TrueBrain> @kick Bjarni You chickened out. I won
22:01:01  *** Bjarni was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [You chickened out. I won]
22:01:01  *** Bjarni [] has joined #openttd
22:01:01  *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
22:01:03  <TrueBrain> I love good games :)
22:01:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> :p
22:01:21  <dihedral> lol
22:01:25  <Bjarni> err
22:01:35  <Bjarni> that wasn't a part of the plan
22:01:42  <TrueBrain> that is why I love it :)
22:01:45  <Rafagd> TrueBrainowned
22:02:45  <Bjarni> ouch
22:03:12  <Bjarni> I just had a burp and a hiccup at the same time :(
22:03:18  <Bjarni> damn that hurts
22:03:22  <Rafagd> :(
22:03:34  <Bjarni> never tried that before
22:03:49  <Bjarni> it still hurts :(
22:04:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> btw. i find it weird how the mine station has white snow shining through the ground, while the wood station has green grass in between the dirt, was that always this way or is that yet another sprite sorting issue?
22:05:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> (see picture above)
22:05:03  <Bjarni> you know it's really cruel to laugh at people getting hurt
22:05:05  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: truelight * r11250 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_vehicle.cpp ai_vehicle.hpp ai_vehicle.hpp.sq): [NoAI] -Fix [API CHANGE]: SkipVehicleOrder always skipped to first vehicle order.. replaced with SkipToVehicleOrder, and added a param to specify to which order it should skip (dynaxo)
22:05:22  <Bjarni> who is dynaxo?
22:08:38  <Phazorx> that's nice... you dont know your developerS?
22:08:50  *** FlowaPowa [] has quit [Quit: FlowaPowa]
22:08:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> so... now i have a brand new shiny valley track, and i can't use a BR 05 on it, because of the previously mentioned problem...
22:09:41  <Bjarni> <Phazorx> that's nice... you dont know your developerS? <-- I'm asking because AFAIK it's the first time he shows up in the commit log and I haven't seen that nick elsewhere
22:10:14  <Phazorx> Bjarni: i got the idea, just sounds kinda inetresting that he is a dev, and not familar to you
22:11:05  *** Greyscale [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:12:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> nobody says he's a dev
22:12:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> he's just someone who either provided a patch, or the idea for a patch, or a bug report
22:12:39  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause2: if the name is added like (name), he created the patch
22:12:45  <TrueBrain> else it is: bug by <name>
22:12:52  <TrueBrain> based on patch by <name>
22:12:55  <TrueBrain> or something :p
22:13:38  <TrueBrain> and Bjarni, if you care that much, you might want to read the topic related to the branch, might clear it up ;)
22:15:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> errr... the loading of steel is totally messed up...
22:16:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's like invoking the random trigger for the type of steel each time...
22:18:50  *** Grey [] has joined #openttd
22:18:54  <blathijs> Bjarni: I haven't heard of the guy before either :-)
22:19:35  *** prakti [] has quit [Quit: Quitting .... Hackedi...hackedi...weg.]
22:19:44  <TrueBrain> nobody has :)
22:23:09  *** thgergo [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:26:37  *** julius [] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
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22:36:10  <dihedral> does anybody know of a map set replacement grf to make a night game
22:40:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> there was a TTRS night version
22:40:44  <Gonozal_VIII> hmm tanker wagon is refittable to tourists
22:40:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> i think
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22:43:10  <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: sounds like budget seats :D
22:43:26  <Gonozal_VIII> :-)
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22:44:48  <Ammler> Gonozal_VIII: DBSetXL has also a new ECS support
22:45:05  <Ammler> check for the grf
22:45:06  <Gonozal_VIII> nice :-)
22:45:42  <Ammler> its called something like dbxl_ecs.grf
22:46:38  <Gonozal_VIII> thanks
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22:48:28  <kaan> evening all :)
22:49:09  <dihedral> hmm... not as promising as i thought it might be
22:49:14  *** bruce89 [] has joined #openttd
22:49:41  <bruce89> who maintains the wiki?
22:49:53  <bruce89> MiHaMiX: see
22:50:44  <dihedral> who maintaines
22:51:21  <bruce89> why would I ask that in the OSM IRC channel?
22:51:35  <bruce89> sorry, OpenTTD
22:52:05  <dihedral> nvm - me is tired
22:52:12  <dihedral> and sleepy
22:52:14  <dihedral> woozy
22:52:21  <dihedral> need....
22:52:23  <dihedral> ...
22:52:26  <dihedral> ...bed
22:52:34  * bruce89 sends a bed
22:53:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> /dcc dihedral send bed
22:53:08  <dihedral> wow - where did that all of a sudden come from?
22:53:29  <bruce89> it's the wonders of IRC and a load of wires
22:53:43  <dihedral> wi...zzzzz
22:54:08  <dihedral> i hate experiencing the laws of gravity with my eyelids
22:54:21  *** KouDy [~KouDy@] has quit [Quit: Trillian (]
22:54:22  <bruce89> that's usually bad news
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22:58:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm. all the high speed engines can't pull tourist wagons, that's quite a limitation...
22:58:53  <glx> touristic trains are usually slow :)
22:59:12  <dihedral> for the sight seeing :-D
22:59:31  <bruce89> MiHaMiX: the <gallery> tag doesn't work
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22:59:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, tourists usually want to get to the target fast, to do sight seeing there
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23:01:32  <dihedral> whats you point Eddi|zuHause2  :-P
23:01:44  <Ammler> worker is a cool New Industrie Idea:
23:02:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> · <- i thought we covered that yesterday
23:02:39  <Gonozal_VIII> ice and transrapid can
23:02:39  <bruce89> which yesterday?
23:03:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: no, the ICE-3 (engine) can be refitted to tourists, but it cannot carry additional tourist wagons
23:04:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> Ammler: as long as it produces the same amount of workers it consumes :p
23:05:04  <Gonozal_VIII> passenger coach (main line)
23:05:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: did you actually read?
23:05:54  <Gonozal_VIII> 160 km/h...
23:05:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> "Einige der im DB Set XL 0.82 enthaltenen Lokomotiven beschrÀnken den Typ bzw die Frachtart der anzuhÀngenden Wagen, zB auf Passagiere (PASS) und/oder Post (MAIL). Folgende Loks können daher keine auf Touristen (TOUR) umgerÌsteten Wagen anhÀngen: BR18, BR05, VT08, VT11.5, ICE-TD, BR515, BR110, BR112, BR103, BR111, ICE-1, sowie der ICE-3."
23:06:41  <Gonozal_VIII> also ich hab hier nen touristen ice3 mit touristenwaggons
23:07:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> maybe that only applies to attaching wagons, not refitting attached wagons
23:07:50  <Gonozal_VIII> you can't refit wagons that are not attached...
23:08:08  <Gonozal_VIII> aaah
23:08:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> but you can remove them from one engine, and put them on another
23:08:14  <Gonozal_VIII> right...
23:08:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> or replace the engine
23:08:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> or things...
23:08:49  <Gonozal_VIII> but that doesn't make much sense
23:10:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> why? say you have a running tourist train with BR 01, and get a new BR 05, then you want to (auto)replace the BR 01 to BR 05, which fails, because the wagons cannot be attached
23:10:54  <Gonozal_VIII> i can refit to passengers first, upgrade and refit back...
23:11:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, but not "auto"
23:11:12  <Gonozal_VIII> so it's only annoying
23:11:29  <Bjarni> goodnight
23:11:30  *** Bjarni [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:12:56  <Gonozal_VIII> but i don't care much, wagon speed limits are on
23:16:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> BR 05 has an override for the wagon speed
23:17:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> actually, almost all fast engines have
23:18:25  <Gonozal_VIII> O_o
23:19:24  <Gonozal_VIII> <-- stupid
23:19:57  * TrueBrain agrees
23:20:04  <Gonozal_VIII> thx
23:20:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> very hard to disagree ;)
23:20:07  <TrueBrain> :p
23:23:30  <Gonozal_VIII> cement works can only be built in rainforest areas?
23:25:08  <Gonozal_VIII> there is no rainforest in temperate
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23:33:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, it's so typical... one deadlock causes the next deadlock, causes the next deadlock, causes the next deadlock, ...
23:35:38  <Gonozal_VIII> how did you manage to get so many deadlocks?
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23:41:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> technically, i have only one deadlock at the same time
23:41:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> but resolving one deadlock put so much load on the next section, that it locks
23:42:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> where it would not lock under normal trafficc
23:42:10  <Gonozal_VIII> depots with exit signals are good to prevent jams from spreading
23:42:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> and the next deadlock was caused because all ore trains got stuck in the previous deadlock, so the station filled up with empty steel trains
23:44:01  <Gonozal_VIII> ok, that's bad
23:44:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> the initial deadlock was a circular crossing between trains
23:45:20  <Gonozal_VIII> seperate the loading and unloading track earlier and add a waiting depot to the steel side...
23:45:27  <Belugas> Gonozal_VIII, the cement works is what i try to fix right now
23:45:32  <Belugas> it can be anything
23:45:41  <Belugas> so... patience :)
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23:45:45  <Gonozal_VIII> ok
23:46:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> weird callback results might be loosely related to my BR 05 and my ore wagon issue
23:48:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: it's normally not needed, the track is so long, that the 5 steel trains hardly ever meet at the station
23:48:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> just when the stream of ore trains stops, they pile up
23:48:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> and i don't have the space for separate stations
23:49:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> grr... this random trigger annoys me...
23:49:50  <Gonozal_VIII> random trigger?
23:50:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's like it's triggering the random steel graphics each time it is attempting to load
23:50:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> instead of when it is loading the first item
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