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00:01:22 *** G [~njones@202.154.150.116] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:01:41 <glx> AntB: easy, OpenTTD doesn't support original string replacing 00:03:23 <glx> easy to check with "openttd -d grf7" 00:04:00 *** G [~njones@202.154.150.116] has joined #openttd 00:04:14 *** sPooT [~spoot@e142085.upc-e.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:04:37 *** Klanticus [~Klanticus@189-18-86-243.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:07:37 *** LeviathNL [LeviathNL@z037133.its-s.tudelft.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:14:43 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@ip-62-143-77-216.1311A-CUD12K-02.ish.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:19:09 <AntB> I wish i knew that earlier :P 00:25:07 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 00:33:42 *** DNazarov [~Miranda@80.69.148.14] has joined #openttd 00:35:22 *** Smoky555 [~Miranda@80.69.148.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:41:43 *** Ammler 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DaleStan_ [~Dale@pool-71-98-68-26.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 01:21:53 *** DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-68-26.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:21:58 *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan 01:23:35 <AntB> Is there anyway to catch OTTDs debug output to a file in windows? as the usual method doesn't work 01:23:51 <Tefad> openttd.exe >output.txt ? 01:24:20 <AntB> as i said, the usual method doesn't work 01:24:24 <glx> you need to use http://devs.openttd.org/~glx/convert.zip first 01:24:44 <Tefad> does windows have 2>debug.txt ? 01:25:00 <AntB> thx glx 01:25:02 <glx> windows has > and 2> 01:25:26 <glx> but ottd is a win app, and you must convert it into a console app 01:25:58 <AntB> thought as much 01:31:15 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B76049.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:31:18 <Tefad> ah. i see. 01:31:43 <Tefad> when did it become a windows app 01:32:02 <glx> it always has been 01:33:15 <Tefad> hmm. k 01:33:46 <Tefad> for some reason i remember it being console and spawning an sdl surface/window 01:33:47 <glx> a console app always open a console if not started from cmd 01:34:02 * Tefad shrugs 01:37:42 *** Eddi|zuHause3 [~johekr@p54B75D34.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:48:46 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-84-226-114-234.adslplus.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:48:54 <AntB> what debug level would help me find sync fails and the cause? 01:49:39 <glx> debug level won't help 01:50:07 <AntB> anything that will? 01:50:16 *** Arpad58 [~Gali@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:50:22 <glx> you need a savegame with a desync happening very quickly 01:50:49 <glx> and a server and client built with random debug stuff 01:50:56 <glx> (a lot of output) 01:51:07 <AntB> ok 01:51:09 <Phazorx> glx: 01:51:18 <Phazorx> we are currently try to figure it ut by looking 01:51:30 <Phazorx> it is a bit weird and definatly over time thing 01:51:42 <Phazorx> since i have one client that desyncs and another that been on for last 30 min 01:51:53 <Phazorx> it is relevant to TBs patch 01:51:58 <Phazorx> and is recent development 01:52:02 *** Arpad58 [~Gali@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 01:52:12 <glx> all clients and server use exactly the same patch? 01:52:32 <Phazorx> yes 01:52:38 <Phazorx> one that desyncs and one that does not 01:52:44 <Phazorx> uses same binary and settings 01:52:59 <glx> then it's a bug in the patch 01:53:04 <Phazorx> i know that 01:53:11 <Phazorx> we need to find the cause tho 01:53:44 <AntB> can't find the bug unless we know what it is :( a phrase i'm sure your familiar with 01:53:58 <Phazorx> and i am affraid that restarted server will behave differntly 01:54:16 <Phazorx> so we are trying to get as much usefull info as possoble before resortign to that 01:55:00 <Phazorx> i guess we just run out of options 01:55:23 <glx> where is the patch? 01:56:12 <AntB> http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/wwottdgd_shared_global.v6.diff 01:57:18 <Phazorx> glx: join #openttdcoop.dev plz 01:57:28 <glx> no it's late :) 01:58:07 <AntB> no kiddin 02:00:17 <glx> good night 02:00:30 <AntB> night 02:00:38 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:12:31 <Phazorx> hmm 02:18:09 <Phazorx> routing issue http://www.myimg.us/10.22.07/3404.png :( 02:40:02 *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:49:39 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-164-234.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 02:56:42 *** AntB [~AntB-UK@81.140.69.15] has quit [Quit: *poof!* I am gone -=- Using ChatZilla] 02:57:30 *** Grey [~Greyscale@host86-131-24-57.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:00:58 *** TinoM| [~Tino@i5387C714.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 03:01:35 *** G_ [~njones@202.154.150.116] has joined #openttd 03:03:26 *** G [~njones@202.154.150.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 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[~jeff@c211-28-164-234.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:41:50 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-164-234.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 07:46:45 *** raimar2 [~hawk@p5489D93C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:47:10 *** Arpad58 [~Gali@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:48:06 *** gfldex_ [~dex@dslb-084-058-026-233.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 07:49:41 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-164-234.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ThePizzaKing] 07:51:54 *** LN- is now known as ln- 07:54:07 *** McHawk [~hawk@p5489D9CF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:54:25 *** gfldex [~dex@dslb-084-058-038-150.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:55:05 *** Arpad58 [~Gali@bravo839.server4you.de] has joined #openttd 08:11:24 <TrueBrain> burp 08:12:46 <ln-> said TrueBrain 08:13:15 <TrueBrain> you can read! :) 08:13:19 <TrueBrain> I am so proud of you :) 08:14:24 <ln-> i'm the narrator 08:15:23 <TrueBrain> cool :) 08:15:26 <TrueBrain> and how are you doing? 08:16:34 <ln-> , asked TrueBrain 08:41:51 *** shodan [user@xerxes.foocode.net] has joined #openttd 08:44:19 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-164-234.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 08:44:21 *** qkr [~qkr@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe18fa00-70.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 08:45:44 <qkr> how do I check if current_player is AI or not? 08:45:53 <TrueBrain> IsHumanPlayer 08:46:01 <TrueBrain> works in Trunk anyway 08:46:25 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-84-226-114-234.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 09:00:33 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by Peer Gynt] 09:06:23 *** dihedral [~dihedral@joshua.dihedral.de] has joined #openttd 09:07:15 <dihedral> hi 09:07:51 <dihedral> for the new network command i need NetworkTCPSocketHandler *cs 09:07:59 <TrueBrain> now where is my narrator? 09:08:20 <dihedral> is there a function in can get this NetworkTCPSocketHandler *cs pre initialized? 09:08:32 <TrueBrain> dihedral: inside PACKET_XX 'cs' is defined 09:08:34 <TrueBrain> see other packets 09:08:52 <dihedral> does not seem wo work in DEF_SERVER_SEND_COMMAND_PARAM 09:09:31 <TrueBrain> DEF_SERVER_SEND_COMMAND_PARAM(PACKET_SERVER_CLIENT_INFO)(NetworkTCPSocketHandler 09:09:31 <TrueBrain> *cs, NetworkClientInfo *ci) 09:09:35 <TrueBrain> What part don't you understand? 09:10:02 <TrueBrain> it is better to copy/paste then to try figuring things out yourself :) 09:10:10 <TrueBrain> just copy the PACKET_SERVER_CLIENT_INFO, and you will be fine 09:10:19 <dihedral> i dont understand that when i call it from my console cmd 09:10:28 <dihedral> how i pass cs to the network command 09:10:32 <dihedral> or do i not need to? 09:10:49 <TrueBrain> ah, you mean it like that 09:11:45 <dihedral> yeah, just batter down on me, even if i mean something different :-P 09:11:52 <TrueBrain> still the same hold 09:11:57 <TrueBrain> search for existing pieces of code 09:11:58 <TrueBrain> and copy/paste it 09:12:17 <TrueBrain> when I open up console_cmds.cpp, and search for a PACKET_SERVER 09:12:19 <TrueBrain> I hav ea hit 09:12:23 <TrueBrain> which shows pretty clear how to do it 09:12:26 <dihedral> existing stuff i have found use FOR_ALL_CLIENTS(cs) 09:13:11 <TrueBrain> SEND_COMMAND(PACKET_SERVER_ERROR)(NetworkFindClientStateFromIndex(index), NETWORK_ERROR_KICKED); 09:13:24 <TrueBrain> life is so simple :) 09:13:43 <dihedral> :-P 09:13:50 <dihedral> thank you TrueBrain 09:13:51 <TrueBrain> really, the search function is your best friend 09:14:26 <TrueBrain> how is it going with the rest? 09:14:35 <dihedral> pertty well actually 09:14:39 <TrueBrain> good :) 09:14:46 <TrueBrain> now I am going to find me a shower 09:14:46 <TrueBrain> bbl 09:14:47 <dihedral> we love your patch :-P 09:15:18 <dihedral> cu later 09:21:49 <Ammler> dihedral: I am not sure about Version 6 09:23:04 <Hendikins> I should fire up ottd again some time. 09:23:10 * Hendikins is now a railway employee :) 09:23:45 *** pecisk [~pecisk@78.84.139.234] has joined #openttd 09:28:02 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B81918.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:29:45 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B81129.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 09:29:46 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 09:30:21 <dihedral> my move clients patch disconnected the client i moved... 09:34:37 <Ammler> dihedral: did you submit your reload patch to bugs.openttd.org ? 09:34:56 <Ammler> if not, you should make it trunkish, I like that very much 09:36:08 <Ammler> I realized that clients automatically rejoin after "newgame", that is very cool. 09:38:27 <TrueBrain> Ammler: it has been there from day 1 ;) Hehe :p 09:38:35 <Ammler> and Kommer did succesful reload yesterday the publicserver with new configuration without SSH 09:39:22 <Ammler> yeah, but some disconnects, but that might be a problem if there are too many connected... 09:39:38 <TrueBrain> Ammler: yup, listener backlog isn't that big 09:40:17 <Ammler> TrueBrain: did you check dihedral's reload patch, is it "trunkish"? 09:40:23 <TrueBrain> I did not check 09:41:11 <Ammler> at least it has some "beta" test behind on our server since 2 weeks... 09:43:00 <dihedral> Ammler: the rejoining of clients is no work of mine 09:43:16 <dihedral> that has always been done when issueing 'newgame' command 09:43:35 <TrueBrain> I am looking at the images in trg1r, and I see images I have never seen ingame :p 09:43:57 <dihedral> what are they? houses? 09:44:01 <TrueBrain> road-like 09:44:05 <TrueBrain> dunno 09:44:12 <TrueBrain> might be groundsprites 09:44:34 <TrueBrain> ah, they are 09:44:37 <TrueBrain> for rail junctions 09:44:56 <Ammler> yeah, maybe I failed at the beginning too, thats why I realized it yesterday first time. 09:45:04 <qkr> where is the "buy new vehicles" window located in the code? 09:45:15 <TrueBrain> build_vehicle_gui.cpp, in trunk anyway 09:46:24 <qkr> ok thanks 09:46:39 <Ammler> dihedral: one thing for reload patch, default should be true.... 09:47:19 <Ammler> I see no reason why using newgame without loading cfg 09:49:41 <dihedral> i use it all the time 09:49:51 <dihedral> or let me rephrase that 09:50:01 <dihedral> when the server reaches restart_game_year 09:50:05 <dihedral> it has the same behaviour 09:50:15 <dihedral> i use that on the stable games 09:53:38 <Ammler> and why shouldn't the game reload cfg? 09:54:47 <Ammler> and at least you can disable it, but I think, reloading cfg would be more used... 09:54:50 <dihedral> my stable games hardly ever change config 09:55:05 <dihedral> you just need it enabled in your config 09:55:18 <dihedral> then, when it reloads the config, it sets that value to true 09:55:20 <qkr> I'm looking at build_vehicle_gui.c, there's only stuff about aircrafts and not other vehicles 09:55:26 <Ammler> its just a small thing,.. 09:55:43 <dihedral> Ammler: set nextgame_reload_cfg = 1 on the console 09:56:02 <dihedral> and in section [network] of your config add 09:56:10 <dihedral> nextgame_reload_cfg = true 09:56:28 <dihedral> progmans tool does not everwrite that value :-) 09:56:41 *** svippery [~svip@cpe.atm2-0-78233.0x535a2072.boanxx18.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:57:00 *** svippery [~svip@cpe.atm2-0-78233.0x535a2072.boanxx18.customer.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 09:57:19 <Ammler> dihedral: I know that, but I just suggested to change the default, so most people don't have to add that in the cfg 09:57:46 <dihedral> :-P 09:57:59 <dihedral> i was thinking that some people might want to change settings ingame 09:58:09 <dihedral> those then do not get saved :-P 09:58:21 <dihedral> unless there is a saveconfig cmd for the console 09:58:24 <Ammler> ah, ok, possible too 09:58:39 <dihedral> if there is a save config console command 09:58:45 <Ammler> but that will change when they are using grf... 09:58:48 <dihedral> than i can set it to true by default 09:59:07 <Ammler> btw, did you check that already? 09:59:21 <dihedral> if there is a save config cmd? 09:59:30 <Ammler> thats the most needed feature for 0.6 servers i think... 09:59:41 <dihedral> save config? 09:59:47 <Ammler> possibilty to change grf settings on running game 09:59:58 <dihedral> it's possible 10:00:11 <dihedral> my nightly does it for most games 10:00:16 <Ammler> really? 10:00:20 <dihedral> we change some grf's and just run newgame 10:00:32 <Ammler> ah, ok, thats not running game then... 10:00:38 <dihedral> heh no 10:00:48 <dihedral> you mean change grf's and load a save? 10:01:02 <Ammler> you should be able to change grf settings like in single player... 10:01:21 <dihedral> no - that would disconnect all clients... i believe 10:01:32 <Ammler> thats ok 10:01:58 <Ammler> at least for beginning 10:02:26 <dihedral> :-P 10:02:33 <Ammler> but now you have to save it local, load it in sp and change setting, upload to server and reload it there... 10:02:36 <dihedral> it's not even included in trunk... 10:02:55 <dihedral> so i doubt it will be used that much 10:03:25 <Ammler> lol, how many servers do you know, which uses grfs? 10:03:32 <Ammler> (not nightly server) 10:03:39 <dihedral> perhaps 2 or 3? 10:04:03 <dihedral> and how many 0.5 servers do you know that have been compiled and possibly patched by the admins? 10:04:20 <Ammler> I know only Brianettas 10:04:34 *** qkr [~qkr@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe18fa00-70.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 10:04:36 <dihedral> well - then 10:04:42 <dihedral> even less than what i thought :-P 10:07:20 *** qkr [~qkr@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe18fa00-70.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:15:14 *** qkr [~qkr@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe18fa00-70.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 10:17:11 <dihedral> hmmm 10:20:16 *** G_ [~njones@202.154.150.116] has joined #openttd 10:20:16 *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 10:22:01 *** G [~njones@202.154.150.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:22:08 <Sacro> rawr 10:24:56 *** Gekz [~gekko@CPE-124-176-127-6.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:25:13 * dihedral pats Sacro on the head 10:25:28 * Sacro purrs 10:25:47 <Sacro> ooh 10:25:57 <Sacro> Microsoft lecture in 90 mins 10:25:59 *** qkr [~qkr@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe18fa00-70.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:26:00 <Sacro> gonna go heckle 10:26:05 <Sacro> <3 linux 10:34:37 <qkr> what are "flags" and "guiflags" in 10:34:38 <qkr> #define SDT_VAR(base, var, type, flags, guiflags, def, min, max, interval, str, proc) 10:35:21 *** Roujin [~Roujin@mnch-4d043e36.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:35:28 <Roujin> hi 10:37:39 *** kampasky_ [pasky@nikam-dmz.ms.mff.cuni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:40:36 <Roujin> how do i print some debug line? 10:40:55 <Roujin> anyone knows? 10:41:15 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C7A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:41:25 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:41:25 <Roujin> well, surely someone knows, but anyone here can tell me? :) 10:45:40 *** Amix [~Michal@cm-84.208.147.74.chello.no] has joined #openttd 10:54:17 <qkr> no idea man, I'm just learning to code openttd myself 10:54:59 <TrueBrain> Roujin: try DEBUG() 10:55:15 <TrueBrain> qkr: search lines where SDT_VAR is used 10:55:20 <TrueBrain> but basicly, you never use that directly 10:55:23 <TrueBrain> only SLE_XXX 10:55:47 <Ammler> Roujin: compile with --enable-debug (I guess nightlies are compiled this way) 10:56:07 <TrueBrain> Ammler: not needed 10:56:08 <Ammler> and run openttd with -d 10:56:14 <TrueBrain> even release builds print DEBUG when using -d 10:56:41 <Ammler> so only selfcompiled doesn't? 10:56:46 <TrueBrain> even they do 10:56:51 <TrueBrain> I wouldn't now how to disable it... 10:56:54 <TrueBrain> --disable-assert most likely 10:57:38 <Ammler> hmm, last time we searched for a bug, I had to ./configure --enable-debug 10:57:45 <TrueBrain> for gdb, yes 10:57:51 <Ammler> ah, ok 10:58:02 <TrueBrain> but the -d lines should always print 10:58:07 <TrueBrain> (when using the correct -d of course ;)) 10:58:14 <Ammler> -D 10:58:25 <Roujin> how do i use the different levels? 10:58:34 <Roujin> first, thanks for the answer ;) 10:58:35 <TrueBrain> Roujin: search for other DEBUG() 10:58:44 <Roujin> will do, thanks 10:58:48 <TrueBrain> really, OpenTTD is pretty self explaining. Search for other instances, and it will come clear to you :) 10:58:55 <TrueBrain> we are not here to take your hand and show you everything ;) 10:59:02 <TrueBrain> and DEBUG is also most likely in the doxygen documentation 10:59:06 <TrueBrain> (docs.openttd.org) 10:59:27 *** raimar3 [~hawk@p5489B7D7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:00:47 *** Ailure [Ailure@194.47.44.201] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:01:24 <Roujin> sure, if i'd ask every little question i have i would probably be kicked for flooding the channel ;) 11:02:45 <TrueBrain> Roujin: :) I wish we could hold your hand, really, but.. it would stop us from doing any development ;) 11:02:53 <TrueBrain> ValueError: unsupported format character 'p' (0x70) at index 43 11:02:56 <TrueBrain> clear errors, whoho! 11:03:14 <Roujin> thanks for the link.. now i know where that doxygen is, that everyone speaks of ^^ (maybe i should have asked that, instead of about debug ;)) 11:03:49 <TrueBrain> or you should have read the topic ;) 11:03:59 <Roujin> i know i know, i should know such things before even thinking of coding something for ottd ;) 11:04:16 <Roujin> shame on me 11:05:08 <TrueBrain> hehe :) 11:05:10 <TrueBrain> I like you :p 11:05:42 *** raimar2 [~hawk@p5489D93C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:06:26 <Roujin> now i'm scared oO 11:06:45 <TrueBrain> good 11:07:00 *** Purplecat [Cat@194.47.44.201] has joined #openttd 11:07:54 *** Purplecat [Cat@194.47.44.201] has left #openttd [] 11:08:10 *** Ailure [Cat@194.47.44.201] has joined #openttd 11:08:39 *** Greyscale [~Greyscale@host81-158-74-16.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 11:15:32 <TrueBrain> bah, I hate my ISP, it blocks all my ports.. now I can't show your guys what pretty thing I made :) 11:16:03 <Ammler> you have a free connection then? 11:16:14 <TrueBrain> almost free :p 11:16:14 <Ammler> I wouldn't pay such a ISP 11:16:14 <TrueBrain> lol 11:16:22 <TrueBrain> I pay 9 euros for 100 mbit fulld uplex 11:16:27 <Ammler> wow 11:16:29 <TrueBrain> so, yeah, a small price to pay :p 11:16:40 <ln-> per minute? 11:16:55 <TrueBrain> I have an untrottled connection 11:17:19 <TrueBrain> meaning with some minor upgrdes, I should be able to get 1 gbit/s 11:18:05 <Ammler> and upload speed? 11:18:12 <TrueBrain> full duplex 11:18:17 <TrueBrain> so, 100 mbit/sec up and down 11:18:33 <Ammler> hmm, but no open ports, thats a silly ISP 11:18:52 <TrueBrain> hehe, else the amount of illegal stuff going over this network would be ^2 of the current rate :p 11:18:57 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.1 :: www.regroup-esports.com )] 11:19:06 <TrueBrain> but, we always have SSH tunnels 11:19:06 <Ammler> I guess 80 is open? 11:19:09 <TrueBrain> nope 11:19:33 <Ammler> and the mail ports... 11:19:42 <TrueBrain> incoming, no ports are open 11:19:47 <TrueBrain> outgoing, all are open 11:24:53 <TrueBrain> http://81.171.98.110:8084/ 11:24:56 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@212.24.150.226] has joined #openttd 11:24:58 <TrueBrain> I love a bit of port forwarding :) 11:25:20 <TrueBrain> hmm,if the server wouldn't exit without reason... 11:25:33 <Amix> TrueBrain: hello 11:25:48 <TrueBrain> hi Amix 11:27:11 <Ammler> static MD5File files_openttd[] = { 11:27:11 <Ammler> { "nsignalsw.grf", { 0x65, 0xb9, 0xd7, 0x30, 0x56, 0x06, 0xcc, 0x9e, 0x27, 0x57, 0xc8, 0xe4, 0x9b, 0xb3, 0x66, 0x81 } }, 11:27:37 <Ammler> why are the md5sums stored so complicated in the source ? 11:28:00 <TrueBrain> Ammler: faster comparing 11:28:39 <Ammler> only comparing one byte by one? 11:30:38 <TrueBrain> Ammler: I dunno :p 11:30:40 <TrueBrain> I was just guessing 11:31:24 <blathijs> Ammler: The alternative would probably hex-encoding them in a string 11:32:18 <Ammler> yeah, just "my" md5tool only prints the sum in one string... 11:32:54 <Ammler> oh, my akku is going down... brb... 11:42:08 <qkr> oh dear...save games and cfg file go into "my documents" in the latest version, instead of the game directory...that's bad 11:42:15 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-84-226-114-234.adslplus.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:43:55 <qkr> and I can't load my 0.5.3 savegame...is that normal? 11:44:19 <Gekz> you can fix the save game setting in the config I beliee 11:44:21 <Gekz> believe* 11:45:32 *** AntB [~AntB-UK@81.140.69.15] has joined #openttd 11:45:57 <qkr> how? 11:47:14 <Amix> someone here knows a site with great themes or wallpapers compatible with Nokia E90 Communicator? 11:47:27 *** G [~njones@202.154.150.116] has joined #openttd 11:47:49 <AntB> you tried Zedge.net? 11:47:57 *** G_ [~njones@202.154.150.116] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:55:28 <Ailure> [13:40] <qkr> oh dear...save games and cfg file go into "my documents" in the latest version, instead of the game directory...that's bad 11:55:29 <Ailure> not really 11:55:37 <Ailure> and you can change that by moving over the cfg file I belive 11:56:54 * dihedral is back 12:00:50 <qkr> well I guess it's a matter of personal preference where you like to have the cfg or savegames 12:01:53 <TrueBrain> "Time to generate (since ReadLine()): 0.480890 msec" <- that is _really_ fast :s 12:02:03 *** Strid_ [gg@c-2894e355.013-46-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:02:32 <blathijs> TrueBrain: to generate what? 12:02:41 <TrueBrain> a dynamic page 12:07:09 *** dihedral is now known as Guest289 12:07:12 *** dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-057-233-202.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 12:07:13 *** Guest289 [~dihedral@joshua.dihedral.de] has quit [Quit: making space] 12:10:31 *** peterbrett [~peter@ptbb2b.girton.cam.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 12:12:28 *** Gekz [~gekko@CPE-124-176-127-6.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/] 12:27:05 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-171-87-247.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:27:13 <dihedral> yay 12:27:22 <dihedral> moving clients from one company to another works 12:27:39 <dihedral> just have issues with moving to spec 12:28:00 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-171-87-247.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has joined #openttd 12:29:25 <TrueBrain> dihedral: you need to move it to player OWNER_SPECTATOR :) 12:29:47 <dihedral> i used PLAYER_SPECTATOR... 12:29:51 <dihedral> :-P 12:29:54 <TrueBrain> oh, also fine :p 12:30:11 <dihedral> well - then it did not work 12:31:04 <TrueBrain> btw, blathijs, I was talking about this page: http://81.171.98.110:8084/ 12:32:28 <blathijs> TrueBrain: wth is it? 12:32:35 <TrueBrain> blathijs: a prototype I am working on 12:32:44 <TrueBrain> showing what you can do with a bit clever desiging :) 12:32:50 <TrueBrain> when you press TICK, on the server nothing really happens 12:32:54 <TrueBrain> the 'game' was already running 12:33:04 <TrueBrain> (resource-wise nothing happens) 12:33:34 <blathijs> but what is it? 12:33:41 <TrueBrain> the game is a forloop, building the HTML for that grid, and after an event, changing all bare to normal 12:33:49 <TrueBrain> as you can see, it is very fast :p 12:35:32 <blathijs> I still don't understand what it does... 12:35:46 <blathijs> You're optimizing the generation of semi-random HTML AFAICS 12:35:59 <TrueBrain> it is a tiny bit hard to explain :p hehe 12:36:09 <TrueBrain> basicly: I have a game running on the background, and the http gives events 12:36:18 <TrueBrain> like: user pressed this, or user wants update 12:36:38 <TrueBrain> instead of the normal: when a http call is done, the page is generate from scratch 12:36:50 <TrueBrain> in this case, the page is already there, just waiting to make html 12:37:06 <TrueBrain> okay, I will stop trying to explain :) I can't ;) 12:37:44 *** dihedral is now known as Guest291 12:37:52 *** dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-056-215-206.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 12:40:39 <qkr> what's wrong when I try to multiply Money with a float and the value is set to 0 12:42:57 *** Guest291 [~dihedral@dslb-084-057-233-202.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:43:38 *** Strid [gg@c-2894e355.013-46-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 12:45:01 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-164-234.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ThePizzaKing] 12:45:39 <dihedral> TrueBrain: could it be that SetLocalPlayer is causing the issue 12:45:46 <dihedral> when i move someone to PLAYER_SPECTATOR? 12:45:56 <TrueBrain> dihedral: I dunno, check it out ;) 12:46:35 <dihedral> assert(IsValidPlayer(new_player) || new_layer == PLAYER_SPECTATOR ... 12:46:39 <dihedral> looks like it :-P 12:47:01 <dihedral> or how does that thing work? 12:47:11 <dihedral> ah - nvm 12:47:17 <dihedral> reading comments helps :-D 12:47:29 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 12:47:30 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:50:45 *** RamboRonny [magic.powe@90-230-201-111-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: - nbs-irc 2.36 - www.nbs-irc.net -] 12:50:56 *** RamboRonny [magic.powe@90-230-201-111-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 12:54:07 *** RamboRonny [magic.powe@90-230-201-111-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [] 12:54:14 *** RamboRonny [magic.powe@90-230-201-111-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 12:57:44 *** dihedral is now known as Guest293 12:57:45 *** dihedral [~dihedral_@dslb-084-057-243-200.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 13:03:30 *** Guest293 [~dihedral@dslb-084-056-215-206.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:09:24 *** flea [~flea@d58-106-84-237.per2.wa.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 13:10:08 <flea> Hi noob here 13:10:14 <flea> hope I dont annoy anyone 13:10:32 <flea> but im having trouble hosting a server 13:10:35 <flea> any help? 13:10:50 <glx> what's the problem? 13:11:27 <flea> well my cousin can see the game but it says thats its offline 13:11:36 <flea> and he refreshes and it just disapears 13:12:05 <glx> is it visible on http://servers.openttd.org? 13:12:25 <flea> ill check 13:13:29 <flea> no it isnt 13:13:36 <flea> so i must have stuffed up somewhere 13:13:44 <TrueBrain> @openttd port 13:13:44 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound) 13:14:08 <flea> ive looked it up on the forum 13:14:11 <flea> i saw that 13:14:32 <flea> but I have no idea how to change it 13:14:36 <flea> :S 13:14:45 <flea> sorry complete noob to this 13:15:49 *** dihedral is now known as Guest294 13:15:50 *** dihedral [~dihedral_@dslb-084-056-208-106.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 13:15:56 <flea> if it uses those ports is there any settings i have to change? 13:16:06 <dihedral> hmm... 13:16:14 <glx> you need to configure your firewall/router 13:16:28 <dihedral> TrueBrain: is there a variable i can check for how many companies exist? 13:16:32 <flea> ive allowd it to pass thru the firewall 13:16:57 <glx> dihedral: players in console 13:16:58 <TrueBrain> FOR_ALL_PLAYERS(p) if (p->is_active) i++ :p 13:17:22 *** Roujin [~Roujin@mnch-4d043e36.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The alternative IRC client] 13:17:37 <dihedral> yes 13:17:47 <dihedral> i just thought there might be some existing var already 13:18:26 <dihedral> ActivePlayerCount() 13:18:30 <glx> flea: both UDP and TCP? 13:18:31 <dihedral> found it :-P 13:18:38 <TrueBrain> dihedral: search is your master :) 13:18:39 <TrueBrain> euh 13:18:40 <TrueBrain> :p 13:18:41 <flea> im lookin at it now 13:18:44 <flea> might have it 13:18:48 <flea> brb 13:20:23 <flea> im on vista 13:20:31 <flea> ive gone into firewall settings 13:20:48 <flea> and i can add a port 13:20:51 <flea> and name it 13:20:52 <flea> ect 13:20:58 <flea> is that what im wanting to do 13:21:12 <dihedral> beat you to it this time TrueBrain 13:21:26 <TrueBrain> dihedral: it was in reply of what you said :) 13:21:27 <TrueBrain> but okay ;) 13:21:41 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-193-46-fixip.tiscali.ch] has joined #openttd 13:22:24 <dihedral> well 13:22:36 <dihedral> i searched and found faster than you told me to search 13:22:38 <dihedral> :-P 13:22:44 <dihedral> it's improving :-D 13:22:49 <TrueBrain> I am happy for you :) 13:22:50 *** Guest294 [~dihedral_@dslb-084-057-243-200.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:22:51 <TrueBrain> or more: for myself :p 13:23:14 <dihedral> :-P 13:25:56 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB778F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:26:42 <flea> ok well mines right 13:26:49 <flea> im jjust tryin to get my cousint ot do it 13:26:53 <flea> i sent him a screenshot 13:26:56 <flea> waitin on an answer 13:29:04 *** dihedral is now known as Guest296 13:29:09 *** dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-057-225-151.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 13:29:17 <flea> while im waiting on him 13:29:33 <flea> where do i go to get the new industry patches? 13:29:40 <flea> ive been lookin all over 13:29:48 <dihedral> http://pub.dihedral.de/openttd/move_clients.png 13:29:55 <flea> but cant nav thru the forum that well 13:30:19 *** flea [~flea@d58-106-84-237.per2.wa.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] 13:30:35 *** flea [~flea@d58-106-84-237.per2.wa.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 13:30:46 <glx> you just need a nightly to use new industries 13:31:44 <TrueBrain> nice work dihedral 13:32:15 <dihedral> i would just like to get it to say the company name rather than the number, but that aint really important 13:32:17 <dihedral> it works :-) 13:32:31 <dihedral> thanks TrueBrain for having me blast out all those questions at you :-P 13:32:32 *** Guest296 [~dihedral_@dslb-084-056-208-106.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:33:22 <flea> cheers for that bout the new industry 13:33:34 <flea> all the ports were already open 13:33:48 <flea> so i still have no idea why the game wnt show up on the server 13:34:02 <glx> server_advertise ? 13:34:26 <flea> only when they click add server and put in the ip 13:34:31 <flea> yea its advertised 13:37:04 <glx> if it's advertised it should be visible on server page 13:39:50 <flea> well thats what i would have thought 13:41:18 <flea> I just tried running to at once and connecting to it 13:41:24 <flea> and it didnt show up 13:41:30 <flea> so it must be on my end 13:41:30 <dihedral> here's the diff: http://pub.dihedral.de/openttd/r11333_move_clients.v1.patch 13:42:22 <TrueBrain> (uint32) (atoi(argv[1])); => (uint32)atoi(argv[1]); 13:42:31 <TrueBrain> and uint32 should be uint16 13:42:34 <TrueBrain> as client_index is uint16 13:43:14 <dihedral> (atoi(argv[1])); was a copy and paste 13:43:15 <TrueBrain> do the ci = NetworkFindClientInfoFromIndex(client_index); after the client_index == 0 check 13:43:17 <dihedral> but thanks 13:45:02 <TrueBrain> if(!IsValidPlayer(player_index) <- missing space 13:46:14 <dihedral> where should the space be? 13:46:32 <TrueBrain> between if and ( 13:46:41 <dihedral> ah 13:46:43 <TrueBrain> at the end of that line there is a space missing too 13:46:50 *** gfldex_ is now known as gfldex 13:47:20 <dihedral> so if () { 13:47:28 <TrueBrain> yes 13:47:34 <TrueBrain> patch looks good for the rest, nice job :) 13:47:36 <hylje> if a: .. 13:47:43 <TrueBrain> hylje: no python :p 13:47:52 <hylje> noes 13:48:22 <dihedral> should i add checks in DEF_SERVER_SEND(PACKET_CLIENT_MOVE) ? 13:48:31 <TrueBrain> for what? 13:48:35 <dihedral> so i check client_index and player_index actually exist? 13:48:55 <dihedral> in case it gets used for another cmd? 13:48:58 <TrueBrain> we don't really do it in other cases 13:49:02 <TrueBrain> you only need to do it on the client 13:49:35 <dihedral> which i do :-) 13:49:54 <qkr> ok my patch is ready, how do I submit it? 13:50:21 <dihedral> you post it 13:50:25 <TrueBrain> qkr: http://bugs.openttd.org, make sure you mark it as Patch 13:50:55 <dihedral> TrueBrain: Ammler suggested using the netowrk command from client side too 13:50:58 <dihedral> but clients then only specify the company and the password 13:51:17 <dihedral> so basically a PACKET_SERVER_CLIENT_MOVE 13:51:23 <TrueBrain> dihedral: I would not do that, as it makes your patch useless 13:51:27 <TrueBrain> you move a client to spec 13:51:29 <TrueBrain> he moves himself back 13:51:37 <TrueBrain> and it would be 2 packets btw 13:51:38 <TrueBrain> not 1 :) 13:51:54 <dihedral> well - 1 i already have :-P 13:52:05 <Ammler> TrueBrain: I just thought about general usage 13:52:22 <TrueBrain> people can leave and rejoin :p 13:52:33 <Ammler> you can join and ask the company for access, they need to give you the pw and you can change... 13:52:37 <dihedral> or, with this patch, ask admin 13:52:44 <TrueBrain> btw, dihedral, your patch _might_ cause desyncs for the player you move 13:52:54 <dihedral> why? 13:53:01 <dihedral> when building while being moved? 13:53:04 <TrueBrain> as the player-change isn't queued 13:53:12 <dihedral> ? 13:53:19 * dihedral is lost, once again 13:53:26 <TrueBrain> I guess there are some very exeptional conditions which can cause desyncs on it :) 13:53:33 <TrueBrain> normally, all commands are queued 13:53:36 <TrueBrain> and handled one by one 13:53:41 <TrueBrain> with a general clock-ticker 13:53:48 <TrueBrain> this bypasses it all :) 13:54:00 <dihedral> heh 13:54:05 <TrueBrain> it shouldn't cause any desyncs 13:54:08 <dihedral> well - then the client only gets kicked 13:54:11 <TrueBrain> yes 13:54:24 <TrueBrain> but under some conditions, I can see it happening :) 13:54:27 <TrueBrain> but odn't worry about it 13:54:32 <dihedral> k 13:55:22 <dihedral> here's the diff: http://pub.dihedral.de/openttd/r11333_move_clients.v2.patch should i post it on bugs.openttd.org :-P 13:55:28 <TrueBrain> please do 13:55:37 <dihedral> uh 13:55:44 <dihedral> did not expect you to like it that much 13:56:01 <hylje> TrueBrain lieks nothing 13:56:04 <hylje> ;P 13:56:14 <TrueBrain> dihedral: I don't have to like it in order to find it useful enough to find it worth comitting :p 13:56:17 <TrueBrain> this isn't my game ;) 13:56:30 <dihedral> lol 13:56:42 <dihedral> rofl 13:59:07 <dihedral> how can i force update on the clients icons in the toolbar 13:59:17 <flea> to install a nightly I simply unzip the file to my OTTD dir and replace? 13:59:29 <glx> yes 13:59:37 <dihedral> because atm, when i move a client from spec to a company, the client has to click on the icon before the shade dissapears 13:59:37 <Ammler> flea: make a copy first 13:59:51 <TrueBrain> dihedral: check code around SetLocalPlayer 13:59:52 <flea> yea i have no saved games im interested in 13:59:55 <TrueBrain> I am sure there is some code giving that away :) 14:00:05 <glx> yes better to do as Ammler says, so you can have both versions 14:00:13 <flea> o i c 14:01:19 <Ammler> glx: I looked more intensive into the "wrong flag" thing, I can't find a better resolution for flags, then already exists 14:01:24 *** nzvip [~svip@192.38.109.188] has joined #openttd 14:01:44 <Ammler> 6x9 is simply optimal 14:02:02 <dihedral> i'll look into it, and up date the fs ticket if i manage it, but for now: fs1363 14:02:08 <Ammler> next step is double so 12x18 14:02:23 <Ammler> and that won't fit it 14:03:07 <Ammler> (with border 14x20) 14:03:49 <dihedral> Ammler: did you see the party grf from AntB? 14:04:19 <Ammler> so my already submitted "bugfix" is the best, maybe the 1.one from skidd without white... 14:04:36 <Ammler> dihedral: nope 14:04:39 <Ammler> screen? 14:05:26 <dihedral> no - just ran a test 14:05:30 <dihedral> i'll make one in a min 14:06:46 <Ammler> and add it to the "roadmap" if you edit it next time... 14:06:57 <dihedral> i have 14:07:07 <dihedral> i set it to 20something 14:07:18 <dihedral> as we are waiting to hear from the rest 14:07:53 <dihedral> actually it would have to be 30something - 40 14:08:39 <Ammler> dihedral: you removed Soup :) 14:08:45 <dihedral> aye 14:09:08 <dihedral> and i thought i make it as clear as possible :-P 14:09:09 <Ammler> dihedral: I meant a link to the GRF 14:10:36 <dihedral> http://www.tt-forums.net/download.php?id=80367 14:11:36 <Ammler> :) not for me, to the wiki, and not the download link directly just to the post, I suggest... 14:11:54 <dihedral> :-D 14:11:57 <dihedral> why dont you say so 14:12:00 <Ammler> like I did for the snowgrf 14:16:11 <flea> so for new industrys i would need to add the grf yea? 14:20:34 <flea> i added a nightly 14:20:40 <dihedral> my word 14:20:44 <flea> but all im after is the new industries 14:20:47 <dihedral> i am too stupid to fill in a bug report 14:20:48 <flea> and they didnt show up 14:21:11 <dihedral> flea: have a look for pbi 14:21:21 <dihedral> it's a grf 14:21:34 <dihedral> and you can find it on grfcrawler or in the openttdcoop grf pack 14:21:50 <dihedral> dont forget to download the update pack of the coop pack :-P 14:22:05 <flea> ok dou have a link by any chance? 14:22:11 <flea> Im a pain arent I 14:22:43 <Ammler> dihedral: not needed anymore, grfpack is up2date 14:22:43 <dihedral> http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/wiki/index.php/GRF 14:22:48 <dihedral> uh 14:22:53 <dihedral> you released final? 14:22:56 <Ammler> except ECS :P 14:23:02 <Ammler> nope 14:23:04 <dihedral> k 14:23:36 <Ammler> final will be out tomorrow or the day after... 14:23:42 <Ammler> if all GRFs are ready 14:23:51 <flea> cheers 14:23:55 <Ammler> hmm, ok, I'll wait until friday 14:24:29 <dihedral> :-P 14:24:43 <dihedral> so the game starts 14.30 CEST? 14:24:59 <Ammler> hmm, 13.30 ? 14:25:05 <Ammler> 12.30 UTC 14:25:22 <dihedral> CET = UTC+1, CEST = UTC+2 14:25:23 <Ammler> hmm, yes summer time 14:25:26 <dihedral> :-D 14:25:41 <Ammler> late? 14:25:45 <dihedral> that was my neat way of saying "are you really sure?" 14:29:29 <dihedral> one of the guys lives in the zone GMT+10 14:29:39 <dihedral> i.e. 2030 when we start 14:29:42 <dihedral> i think 14:30:43 <TrueBrain> http://81.171.98.110:8084/ <- I love AJAX :) 14:31:00 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: these are desyncs and not different client 14:31:04 <qkr> I've posted my patch at bugs.openttd.org...do I need to do anything else? 14:31:07 <Phazorx> heya btw 14:31:17 <TrueBrain> (yuo can click on AjaxTick :p) 14:31:26 <TrueBrain> qkr: wait :) 14:31:32 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: weird desyncs 14:31:43 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: it could very well be WP related 14:31:51 <blathijs> TrueBrain: ah, the tiles are inverting on each reload 14:31:54 <Phazorx> since it started after i put WPs as blockers 14:31:59 <blathijs> I thought they were random permutations 14:32:18 <TrueBrain> blathijs: no 14:32:39 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: I will need to see a live example to tell anything about it 14:33:11 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: care to join the server? 14:33:23 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: sure, give me a revision and patch version 14:33:36 <Phazorx> 11336 + v6 14:33:42 <Phazorx> join #openttdcoop.dev 14:34:20 <qkr> is there any way to open a 0.5.3 savegame on the latest build? I get "Broken savegame - invalid chunk size" 14:34:42 <TrueBrain> qkr: that shouldn't happen 14:35:24 <Belugas> qkr, i'm not too sure about your change. It is limited, in my opinion 14:35:40 <Belugas> I would rather see an addition on grf specs instead 14:36:07 <blathijs> qkr: Is that with an unmodified build? Or do you have patches applied? 14:38:14 <qkr> only my own patch 14:38:52 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C7A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Progman] 14:41:19 <qkr> belugas: ok... 14:43:43 *** Greyscale [~Greyscale@host81-158-74-16.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:44:07 <Belugas> 1) add a ai_cost member to vehicle struct, 2) add a grf property loader fro vehicles in newgrf.cpp 3) branch your code to this new value 4) make sure you provide a default value - in this case, it should be the regular cost 14:44:10 <dihedral> TrueBrain: just found that when moving a client to spectators, i _must_ update the toolbar asap, as that otherwise will assert 14:44:32 <dihedral> if the toolbar is used before it gets updated automatically 14:46:34 *** Greyscale [~greyscale@host81-158-74-16.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 14:46:47 <qkr> what's the difference of doing it the grf way or my way? 14:47:15 <Belugas> 1) grf = configurable per vehicle type 14:47:26 <Belugas> 2) anyone can write his own setting 14:47:42 <Belugas> 3) you do need a path option 14:48:03 <Belugas> errr.. 14:48:23 <Belugas> 3) you do NOT need a patCh option 14:49:09 <Belugas> 4) anyone (O)TTD(P) have the benefit of it, given that TTDP implements its counterpart 14:51:25 *** Netsplit charon.oftc.net <-> kinetic.oftc.net quits: egladil 14:51:34 *** Eddi|zuHause3 [~johekr@p54B76049.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:51:44 *** Netsplit over, joins: egladil 14:51:46 <qkr> ok...I might have to look at that later... 14:54:32 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C7A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:54:50 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B76049.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:57:43 <Belugas> it is not that hard, rest assure 14:58:22 <dihedral> recv failed with error 54 14:58:24 <dihedral> :-P 15:04:30 *** dihedral is now known as Guest307 15:04:31 *** dihedral [~dihedral_@dslb-084-056-211-065.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 15:11:25 *** Guest307 [~dihedral@dslb-084-057-225-151.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:18:41 <dihedral> TrueBrain: can i bother you again with that move clients patch, or are you busy atm 15:18:55 <hylje> moar 15:19:40 *** Greyscale [~greyscale@host81-158-74-16.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:19:44 * Belugas goes back on customer's site 15:19:51 <dihedral> :-P 15:22:12 <dihedral> when can my game exit with 'Bus error' ? 15:26:28 <hylje> Train Error 15:26:52 <ln-> yeah, stick to trains and planes 15:27:58 *** |Bastiaan| [~kvirc@77.60.199.137] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/] 15:42:46 *** flea [~flea@d58-106-84-237.per2.wa.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] 15:54:28 *** shodan [user@xerxes.foocode.net] has quit [Quit: Client Exiting] 16:08:05 *** MarkSlap [~me@h64n1c1o1114.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #openttd 16:11:23 *** Deathmaker [~Miranda@dslb-082-083-206-122.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 16:11:40 <dihedral> const NetworkPlayerInfo *npi = &_network_player_info[player_index]; 16:11:48 <dihedral> npi->company_name 16:12:01 <dihedral> for some reason i only get an empty string... 16:12:12 <dihedral> any hints? 16:27:43 *** Peakki [antti@cs181247045.pp.htv.fi] has joined #openttd 16:27:45 <TrueBrain> http://81.171.98.110:8084/ <- scroll the map :p 16:28:22 <TrueBrain> (click left/right/up/down) 16:28:40 <dihedral> i dont get any values for client_name and company_name in their corresponding strucs 16:29:24 <dihedral> TrueBrain: are you reading that data out of a save? 16:29:48 <dihedral> or just random? 16:32:25 *** _Ben_ [~Ben@82.152.218.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:33:47 <qkr> is there something wrong with the svn version? planes seem to fly really fast 16:34:01 <Ailure> no that's a feature 16:34:03 <Ailure> :) 16:34:22 <Ailure> their speed is in more scale with real world speed 16:34:26 <Ailure> eh 16:34:27 <Ailure> rather 16:34:32 <Ailure> in scale with other vehicles I mean 16:34:40 <Ailure> before they were flying four times slower than trains I belive 16:35:00 <qkr> well that's nice but it seems to completely unbalance the game...planes are making millions of profit really fast now 16:36:58 <Ailure> also that change happened so long time ago it's not really funny 16:37:07 <Ailure> well some newGRF's balances it out apparently 16:37:58 <qkr> now I get error when I try to load my savegame 16:37:58 <Ammler> [18:30] <TrueBrain> http://81.171.98.110:8084/ <- scroll the map <---- does that need a special kind of browser/plugin? 16:38:23 <qkr> "there is no town in scenario" when I try to load savegame... 16:41:20 *** Deathmaker [~Miranda@dslb-082-083-206-122.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: ...] 16:41:55 <qkr> I guess I'll have to go back to playing 0.5.3 16:41:56 *** AntB [~AntB-UK@81.140.69.15] has quit [Quit: *poof!* I am gone -=- Using ChatZilla] 16:42:29 *** AntB [~AntB-UK@81.140.69.15] has joined #openttd 16:43:26 <dihedral> Ammler: you need to have javascript enabled 16:44:51 <SpComb> I only get a blank screen 16:44:59 <SpComb> is it a scrollable OpenTTD map, and if so, give me more details, please 16:45:54 * SpComb pokes TrueBrain 16:50:59 <dihedral> you need to enable javascript 16:51:11 <SpComb> I have 16:51:42 <SpComb> well, I viewed it with NoScript at first, but then allowed it, still just a blank page 16:52:05 <SpComb> Connecting to 81.171.98.110:8084... connected. 16:52:05 <SpComb> HTTP request sent, awaiting response... No data received. 16:52:12 <Ailure> same 16:52:27 <Ammler> yeah, 1. blank, now no connectin 16:55:17 <TrueBrain> SpComb: try biw 16:55:20 <TrueBrain> try now 16:55:22 <TrueBrain> server crashed 16:55:35 <TrueBrain> I do not yet handle all exceptions correctly :) 16:55:48 <SpComb> so what is it? 16:56:02 <TrueBrain> you can scroll a map :) 16:56:05 <TrueBrain> proof-of-concept 16:56:15 <SpComb> I thought it was a scrollable view of an OpenTTD game :( 16:56:37 <SpComb> prototype.js < 16:56:37 <TrueBrain> maybe in the future :p 16:56:38 <SpComb> <3 16:56:41 <TrueBrain> for now it is a prototype :) 16:56:44 <SpComb> and firebug, in case you don't have those yet 16:56:56 <TrueBrain> showing that it can be done :) On very high speeds ( < 1ms) 16:57:17 <TrueBrain> SpComb: I am not interested in the javascript, more in the backend :) 16:57:34 <SpComb> Prototyp makes your JS code a lot nicer 16:58:00 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A43614.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:58:07 <SpComb> Ajax.Request with a function or two as an argument instead of some weird IE/Mozilla/whatever stuff and stateChanged 16:58:08 <TrueBrain> no, it does it for me :p 16:58:21 <TrueBrain> SpComb: prototype does that 'weird' stuff 16:58:32 <TrueBrain> simple wrappers :) 16:58:58 <SpComb> I mean prototype.js, the Javascript library 16:58:59 <dihedral> TrueBrain: i dont get anything with _network_player_info[index] 16:59:08 <dihedral> any hints? 16:59:12 <TrueBrain> dihedral: nope 16:59:15 <dihedral> k 16:59:17 <TrueBrain> SpComb: yes, me too 16:59:21 <TrueBrain> it just does all those things for you 16:59:25 <TrueBrain> nevertheless, it does do those things 17:00:17 <SpComb> mm, python 17:00:23 <SpComb> is test.txt relevant code? 17:01:17 <TrueBrain> was an old version of the 'game' 17:01:33 <SpComb> but a scrollable minimap/screenshot is something that might be interesting to do for MyOTTD 17:01:56 <SpComb> modify the OpenTTD code to draw them as .png buffers and stream them directly from the openttd process to the HTTP reply 17:02:04 <hylje> haha 17:02:09 <hylje> see google maps 17:02:15 <TrueBrain> SpComb: if you reload test.txt, it shows the current code 17:02:18 <SpComb> I've seen google maps before 17:04:02 <SpComb> gah, the half-semester maths exam was last week, and I got through that, but there's a physics and electrical engineering exam next week, and I like really need to study for them if I want to have any hope of getting them done this semester 17:04:22 <SpComb> meaning that I can't really work on MyOTTD... but generally I don't really study for them either, zero interest... 17:04:49 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host180-238-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:05:07 <SpComb> TrueBrain: JSON! 17:05:41 <Wolf01> hello 17:05:52 <TrueBrain> SpComb: it has some work :) 17:06:13 <SpComb> what has what work? 17:06:23 <TrueBrain> and now: FOOD! 17:07:53 <SpComb> hmm, soon it'll have been a month since I posted the topic on the forums 17:08:02 <SpComb> damn maths 17:09:29 <hylje> damm 17:11:58 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 17:15:10 <SpComb> damn 17:15:42 *** _Ben_ [~Ben@82.152.216.138] has joined #openttd 17:16:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> maths is funny ;) 17:17:08 <ln-> even ridiculous 17:17:17 <hylje> are 17:17:17 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 17:21:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> hylje are funny either 17:22:14 <hylje> ! 17:26:10 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:26:23 *** Ben_1 [~Ben@82.152.207.19] has joined #openttd 17:27:54 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.159] has joined #openttd 17:28:32 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-193-46-fixip.tiscali.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:29:03 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-84-227-150-215.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 17:32:30 *** _Ben_ [~Ben@82.152.216.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:36:28 <SpComb> not when you need to learn five week's worth of maths for an exam on monday 17:45:28 *** AntB is now known as Guest319 17:45:36 *** AntB [~AntB-UK@81.140.66.127] has joined #openttd 17:46:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> i never learned for maths... 17:48:16 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-109-253.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 17:52:03 *** Guest319 [~AntB-UK@81.140.69.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:54:51 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50c79a03.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 17:54:52 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 17:57:44 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause3: please tell me you had to put more effort on learning some other subject? 17:58:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> i suck at sports if that is what you mean ;) 17:58:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> but don't worry, i know people who are even more crazy than me ;) 18:00:58 <Bjarni> sports is like sex. It's as fun to do as it's boring to watch other people do it 18:03:03 <ln-> also sex is like sports. 18:04:09 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause3: what was your result in the 12-min Cooper test? 18:04:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> er... i'm not really sure i like what you are insinuating :p 18:04:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> the what test? 18:04:35 <Bjarni> Cooper test 18:04:43 <Bjarni> that's the running test 18:05:00 <Belugas> [14:03] <@Bjarni> sports is like sex. It's as fun to do as it's boring to watch other people do it <- judgment based on your own opinion, Bjarni 18:05:05 <Bjarni> basically you run as long as you can during 12 minutes and the result is how long you ran 18:05:24 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause3: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooper-Test 18:05:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't remember ever doing that 18:05:50 <ln-> Belugas: heh, yeah, Bjarni just proved the porn industry cannot exist. 18:05:50 <Belugas> Bjarni: it can be really fun to watch a good game of somehting you're addicted to, just for the fun of learning new ways of doing.. 18:06:14 <Belugas> ln-, that too :) 18:06:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> all running tests i have done were like "run X (kilo-)meter and take the time it takes" 18:06:41 <Bjarni> you presume that I mean that watching people having sex should be boring... I never said that :P 18:06:49 *** Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AWAY 18:06:56 * SpComb wonders if he could run 2300m in 12 minutes 18:07:00 <Bjarni> that's what I think, but I didn't say that 18:07:15 <Belugas> you did! 18:07:54 <Belugas> by specifying "sports is like sex", the following sentence thus so applies to both sex and sport :P 18:07:56 <Bjarni> well... I guess I did 18:08:08 <Bjarni> but then again, why should it be wrong to tell the truth? :P 18:08:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> what i meant was: if i say "i suck at sport" and you say "sport is like sex" would result in "i suck at sex"... 18:08:16 <Eddi|zuHause3> which is... 18:08:24 <Eddi|zuHause3> ... ambiguous at best 18:08:42 <Bjarni> both sex and sports are physical acts 18:09:00 <Bjarni> so if you have motor problems, then you could suck at both 18:10:11 <ln-> Bjarni: what was your result in the Cooper test? 18:10:24 <Bjarni> hmm 18:10:30 <Belugas> [14:10] <@Bjarni> but then again, why should it be wrong to tell the truth? :P <---- YOUR truth, Bjarni, your and only one... You tend to generalize based on your opinions 18:11:09 <Belugas> [14:11] <@Bjarni> so if you have motor problems, then you could suck at both <--- depends what is the motor problem ;) 18:11:26 <Bjarni> I did fairly well in the Cooper test 18:11:36 <Bjarni> but I can't remember the number 18:11:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> ln-: it says "this test is unsuited for untrained people" 18:12:50 <Bjarni> but I can remember that I kept on running when most of the others started to drop out :) 18:13:30 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause3: but... there's 11 minutes to train for the last minute. 18:13:48 <Bjarni> :P 18:15:30 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause3: and besides, "untrained people" probably means "fat americans who suffer a heart attack after 100 meters". 18:15:53 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@ti0140a340-0088.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: edgepro: A man who smiles when things go wrong knows who to blame.] 18:16:47 <ln-> btw, the english wikipedia has a more sensible table of evaluation of the result: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooper_test 18:19:57 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-138-229.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 18:21:51 *** DaleStan_ [~Dale@pool-71-98-68-26.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 18:21:51 *** DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-68-26.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:21:55 *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan 18:25:42 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:29:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> ln-: like i said, i do not remember ever taking this test 18:29:37 <Bjarni> so basically we don't know how you are physically, but we do know something about your memory 18:29:47 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause3: did i claim the opposite since you first said that? 18:30:26 <Eddi|zuHause3> and "fat americans who suffer a heart attack after 100 meters" are unlikely to be meant on a german page :p 18:32:40 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause3: but if someone is able -- and used to -- to running a few kilometers without trouble, i wouldn't consider them to be "untrained" in that case. 18:33:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> you see... the "and used to" part is the key element 18:34:17 <ln-> i'm not sure if we're talking on general level or about you or someone else specifically now. 18:34:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> great, mission accomplished :p 18:36:37 <ln-> and i'm not sure what we're talking about anyway; you said you haven't taken the test, which is acknowledged, yet then you kind of give the "not for untrained" as a reason for not taking the test, although you hadn't even heard about it before. 18:37:42 <Bjarni> I once missed the bus and had to run 2 km in 10 minutes... I made it even though I had to cross roads (stop and take a look for cars...) and had a backpack 18:37:57 <Bjarni> so I wouldn't consider myself untrained :) 18:38:45 <Bjarni> specially because I'm not far or American 18:39:12 <Eddi|zuHause3> if i miss the bus, i'd have to run 15-20km 18:39:31 <hylje> if i miss the bus ill wait for the next one 18:39:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> i usually just go home again in that case... 18:39:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> the next bus goes 2h later 18:40:16 <Bjarni> the problem is that the next bus was scheduled to the very same minute as I should arrive 18:40:50 <Bjarni> all the way I could imagine everybody at school gathering and look at me when I showed up late... didn't happen :D 18:41:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> i got late to school all the time... 18:41:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> my english teacher was not really fond of me :p 18:41:56 <Bjarni> you lived right next door to your school? 18:42:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> (i had english first hour on monday and tuesday) 18:42:04 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A43614.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 18:42:08 <Bjarni> :P 18:42:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> Bjarni: no, the same 15-20km 18:42:17 <Bjarni> heh 18:42:52 *** Rexxie [~rexxars@ti0140a340-0088.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 18:42:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> although, the bus went totally early, so i usually went with my father who drove to work 18:43:06 <Eddi|zuHause3> and he cannot get up early either ;) 18:43:27 <ln-> getting up early is just unnatural. 18:43:39 <Bjarni> at one time the trains didn't drive for 30 minutes and naturally a whole lot of us turned up late for a math test. The teacher didn't believe our story about no trains and claimed that we had agreed to show up late to sabotage her test 18:44:17 <Bjarni> now how obscene is that??? 18:44:55 <Bjarni> note: normally there should be a train every 10th minute so a 30 minute without trains is considered a really long time 18:45:27 <hylje> exactly why the teacher didn't habeeb it 18:46:08 <Bjarni> nahh... that line is not known to keep the schedule 18:46:22 <Bjarni> it fucked up today as well 18:46:35 <Bjarni> all signals in a like 15 km part of it died 18:46:43 <hylje> haha 18:47:10 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@ip-62-143-77-156.1311A-CUD12K-02.ish.de] has joined #openttd 18:47:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.11/sixwords.html 18:47:21 <Bjarni> with 2 km between the signals in each direction (it's double tracked) it makes a whole lot of signals 18:47:57 <hylje> about 30 18:48:03 <Bjarni> yeah 18:48:13 *** qkr [~qkr@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe18fa00-70.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 18:48:23 <Bjarni> and then the trains should stop at every single one and use the radio to get a permission to pass 18:48:32 <Bjarni> they fixed it ASAP 18:48:58 <hylje> iow a hour or so later ;) 18:49:04 <Bjarni> no 18:49:18 <Bjarni> I don't know how long it took them to fix it 18:49:23 <Bjarni> but longer than an hour 18:49:34 <hylje> point 18:49:44 <Bjarni> also I don't know if they actually fixed it or just manned the stations in each end 18:50:39 <Bjarni> if the stations are manned and they communicate with each other they can declare the track between them as free and give a written permission to each train to allow them to drive and pass all signals in between nomatter what they show 18:51:08 <Bjarni> so a "fix" could be not to use the signals, but use locally controlled stations like in the steam era 18:51:16 <hylje> with phones 18:51:34 <Bjarni> I think they would use their internal radio system 18:51:42 <Bjarni> but phones could work 18:51:53 <Bjarni> they don't use telegraphs anymore ;) 18:52:07 <Bjarni> bbl 18:52:48 <hylje> at least here the rail operator runs optic fiber with most rail 18:52:59 <hylje> operates the signal systems and comm 19:01:40 <Eddi|zuHause3> hahaha :p 19:01:41 <Eddi|zuHause3> Leia: "Baby's yours." Luke: "Bad newsâŠ" 19:01:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> - Steven Meretzky 19:02:10 <Noldo> Now that Rubidium did the overloadsafeint thing I can check how much my CommandCost thing lags 19:05:09 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A5A24.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:05:27 <skidd13> Hi 19:11:08 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB778F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai] 19:19:48 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:22:44 *** AntB is now known as Guest324 19:22:53 *** AntB [~AntB-UK@81.140.68.60] has joined #openttd 19:29:05 *** Guest324 [~AntB-UK@81.140.66.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:33:08 <dihedral> hello skidd13 19:33:44 <dihedral> TrueBrain: you want to skimm over that? http://pub.dihedral.de/openttd/r11333_move_clients.v3.patch 19:34:09 <TrueBrain> dihedral: not currently 19:34:12 <skidd13> dihedral: comments in the patch? 19:35:42 <dihedral> heh 19:35:45 <dihedral> good point 19:35:53 <dihedral> TrueBrain: i'll post it to bugs 19:37:58 <dihedral> skidd13: it moves a client to any company or to spectator mid game :-) 19:38:28 <Bjarni> <hylje> at least here the rail operator runs optic fiber with most rail <-- optic fibers are too modern for our security approval system. We use copper only 19:38:39 <Bjarni> basically the system haven't changed in the past 100 years 19:38:42 <skidd13> dihedral: I see, but I miss comments in the patch 19:39:10 <Bjarni> the basic physics in it... not the signals 19:39:42 <dihedral> i am adding them right now 19:44:08 <skidd13> dihedral: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Coding_style#Documentation might help 19:44:30 *** MarkSlap [~me@h64n1c1o1114.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:44:43 <dihedral> i am copying form other stuff above my code... 19:45:10 <dihedral> no DEV_CLIENT_RECEIVE_COMMAND block has a doxygen style comment block 19:45:17 <dihedral> *DEF 19:45:53 <skidd13> dihedral: If it has not there is no reason why it shouldn't have 19:46:39 <dihedral> it is not a function of that sort.. 19:46:55 <skidd13> And? 19:47:24 <skidd13> I see no reason for leaving the documentaion blank 19:48:20 <dihedral> i dont have enough info 19:48:52 <dihedral> as _no_ send or receive block as a docblock 19:49:01 <dihedral> and it is not in the wiki 19:49:01 <skidd13> You coded that stuff you should have. 19:49:09 <dihedral> and they are all called via a diff function 19:49:39 <dihedral> skidd13: as in how to comment the commands with doxygen comment blocks 19:49:46 <dihedral> i know what happens 19:49:47 <skidd13> The function docu describes what the function does 19:49:55 <skidd13> not every part of it 19:50:03 <dihedral> you know how the send commands are called? 19:50:15 <dihedral> you know how the recv blocks are called? 19:50:22 <dihedral> via another function 19:50:37 <dihedral> you want a doxygen doc block for something you cannot call? 19:50:50 <dihedral> i can understand that the inline comments are missing 19:51:23 <dihedral> but if i am not provided with a method that *i know* will be ok for thes blocks... 19:51:34 <dihedral> i have no idea how to comment them 19:51:51 <dihedral> and making function dock blocks for something that is not really a function or called directly 19:52:00 <dihedral> i do not know if that could muddle some documentation up 19:52:04 <skidd13> If the comment is sufficient, I'm satisfied. I only want to tell you that I miss a lot of comments ;) 19:52:20 <dihedral> just working on that right now :-) 19:54:17 <Ammler> dihedral: who else knows that better then you :) 19:55:56 <Rubidium> little quiz, what's different with normal trunk: http://rbijker.net/openttd/spot_the_difference.png (skidd13 you may not enter this competition ;)) 19:57:16 <skidd13> :D 19:57:18 <Bjarni> may I enter it? :P 19:57:37 <blathijs> There is this weird white-ish track on the bottom? 19:58:00 <skidd13> blathijs: nope 19:58:02 <Rubidium> Bjarni: no, you only spoil the fun ;) 19:58:18 <blathijs> skidd13: There is! What's the white-ish track then? 19:58:28 <Rubidium> that's autorail 19:58:34 <Rubidium> just the cursor isn't drawn 19:58:46 <blathijs> autorail? 19:58:59 * blathijs hasn't been playing for a while :-) 19:59:11 <skidd13> blathijs: track placement highlight. 19:59:15 <Bjarni> o_O 19:59:15 <Rubidium> a while? meaning 2 years? 19:59:25 <Belugas> build:c:\c\JJ\sv1020_012br36.gbb 19:59:26 <Bjarni> ludde made autorail ages ago 19:59:31 <Belugas> arhgg... 19:59:32 <Belugas> sorry 19:59:55 <Sacro> @seen ludde 19:59:55 <DorpsGek> Sacro: I have not seen ludde. 20:00:11 <Bjarni> Belugas: I don't think that's the right answer... but we can't tell for sure until we have decoded wtf you just said :P 20:00:48 <Bjarni> ludde retired after releasing 0.3.5 or something 20:00:59 <Bjarni> I think autorail was made on the old svn server 20:01:34 <skidd13> Hey folks no idea... 20:01:38 <skidd13> ? 20:01:58 <Ammler> opposite of foundations 20:01:59 <Sacro> hmmm, whats a class 7 20:02:06 <Sacro> freight 45mph methinks 20:02:12 <TrueBrain> oh, I have a quiz too: what map is this: http://81.171.98.110:8084/ :p 20:02:25 <Bjarni> Sacro: that's the thing between class 6 and class 8 20:02:28 <Sacro> holy carp 20:02:30 <Sacro> phpttd? 20:02:34 <TrueBrain> lol :p 20:02:35 <TrueBrain> no PHP 20:02:35 <Bjarni> do I really have to tell you everything? :P 20:02:38 <TrueBrain> would be to darn slow 20:03:07 <Rubidium> Ammler: where can you see those opposite foundations? 20:03:20 <Sacro> oh noes 20:03:22 <Ammler> north of ore mines 20:03:25 <Sacro> train emergancy stopping >< 20:03:43 <Bjarni> Sacro: you are on a train right now? 20:03:55 <Bjarni> or playing a railsim? 20:03:58 <Rubidium> Ammler: that are just normal foundations 20:04:37 <Ammler> ah I have it now 20:04:57 <skidd13> Ammler: and? 20:05:10 <Ammler> its something liek foundationbridge 20:05:15 <Sacro> Bjarni: no, simsig 20:05:24 <skidd13> Ammler: nope 20:06:24 * Rubidium wonders what foundationbridge is 20:06:34 <skidd13> Rubidium: Seems that they build a harmonious picture ;) 20:07:25 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5acede6c.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:08:05 <Ammler> Rubidium: the foundations like you have near the tunnels 20:08:11 <Ammler> but only one tile 20:08:17 <Ammler> they are 2 tiles 20:08:32 <Ammler> so its doable in trunk 20:09:12 <Ammler> the thing you pointed as impossible at saturday 20:09:21 <Sacro> hmmm, this crossing is cleared even though no train is due to go over it 20:09:35 <skidd13> Ammler: nope foundation is a quite icy guess 20:11:11 <Rubidium> skidd13: seems like people aren't playing enough OTTD to actually notice :( 20:11:26 <Ammler> + / - ? 20:12:01 <Ammler> hmm, no 20:12:13 *** Wolf01|AWAY is now known as Wolf01 20:12:16 <skidd13> Rubidium: They'll see all changes (I meant the bigger ones) 20:13:10 <Ammler> its clear now, didn't believe it so I started a ottd client 20:13:55 <skidd13> Ammler: and? 20:14:15 <skidd13> share your knowledge. 20:14:37 <Ammler> erail autotool 20:14:44 <skidd13> 100 points 20:14:48 <Ammler> :) 20:14:51 <skidd13> wait 50 20:14:54 <Rubidium> skidd13: noo... only 50 ;) 20:15:09 <skidd13> nope 25 only 20:15:10 <skidd13> ;) 20:15:11 <Ammler> there is a second? 20:15:24 <Ammler> or my wrong answers? 20:15:24 <skidd13> but only 50% visible 20:15:25 <Rubidium> skidd13: well, the last 50 points they can't get as they can't see it ;) 20:15:41 <skidd13> there is a second 20:16:14 <skidd13> Ammler: hard to spot but you are close to it 20:16:36 <Ammler> I have something missing here, the depot should also have some 20:17:05 <Ammler> maybe the convert... 20:17:11 <skidd13> now 50 20:17:16 <skidd13> or 100 20:17:24 <Ammler> tunnel? 20:17:27 <skidd13> *thumbs up* 20:17:39 <Rubidium> tunnel hasn't changed 20:17:58 <Rubidium> but yes, the autorail and convert are changed 20:18:07 <skidd13> You can guess the other 50%, cause you know the rest ;) 20:18:22 <Ammler> :) 20:18:25 <Rubidium> but now you say it, maybe the depot needs another sprite too 20:18:53 <skidd13> Hmmpf.... I thought nobody would notice ;) 20:19:06 <glx> the other 50% is not visible on screenshots 20:19:21 <Ammler> the english flag? 20:19:22 <skidd13> glx: yes, what is missing ;) 20:19:30 <glx> cursors I guess 20:19:38 <skidd13> Ammler: nope 20:19:38 <skidd13> glx. yup 20:20:44 <Ammler> Rubidium: do you know, what I mean with "opposite foundations"? 20:21:17 <Rubidium> something that was "hot" in the TTDP forum a while ago 20:21:29 <Ammler> yeah! 20:21:36 <Wolf01> i missed something? 20:21:39 <Ammler> MB made a shot 20:22:14 <Ammler> dunno if it was fake... 20:22:15 <Rubidium> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=21831 20:22:20 <Rubidium> well, it is fake 20:23:24 <Ammler> thats not MBs 20:23:37 <Ammler> I saw other screens 20:24:08 <Rubidium> same idea 20:24:36 <Ammler> yep, but not fakes, I assume... 20:24:40 <Wolf01> i think that this is possible to do, at least the first one 20:26:15 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A5A24.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 20:27:05 *** Peakki [antti@cs181247045.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: LÀhdössÀ] 20:31:18 <dihedral> heh - how is that, added a bunch of comments :-P http://pub.dihedral.de/openttd/r11333_move_clients.v3.patch 20:31:30 <Ammler> Wolf01: Rubidium and Frosch should know it..., its simular to the halftile thing... 20:31:41 *** Desolator [Desolator@86.122.150.115] has joined #openttd 20:34:51 <Rubidium> Ammler: actually not really 20:35:02 <dihedral> could someone change 'reported version' from 0.5.3 to nightly in FS1363 for me? 20:35:07 <Rubidium> halftile did not change the map array 20:36:15 <Rubidium> those "building under slopes" require extra map bits 20:36:34 <Rubidium> primarily as you can't tell whether it should be a positive or negative foundation 20:39:00 <Wolf01> so... add these extra bits, make this possible in combination with the bridgeheads and other useful things ;) 20:39:06 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:39:18 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5acede6c.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 20:39:33 <Rubidium> seems like Wolf01's going to code 'under' slopes and bridgeheads ;) 20:39:42 <Wolf01> yes, why not 20:39:42 <Rubidium> that'd be nice ;) 20:39:43 *** Ben_1 is now known as _Ben_ 20:40:03 <Rubidium> lol ;) 20:40:10 *** bruce89 [~bruce@81-179-117-252.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #openttd 20:40:18 <Wolf01> i'm trying to code diagonal roads since the old project was abandoned 20:40:28 <Wolf01> and without any improvement 20:40:30 <Wolf01> :P 20:41:16 <Desolator> hi guys (& maybe gals, too) 20:41:18 <Wolf01> the best thing i coded 'til now is the transparency patch 20:41:22 <bruce89> I assume people here know that trunk doesn't work 20:41:25 <Wolf01> hi Desolator 20:41:51 <Rubidium> Wolf01: have fun with doing some major rework of the pathfinders, as that's required for both bridgeheads and under slopes. 20:42:32 <Desolator> I'm interested in adding stable build support for openttd uptader, however, is there any place in which the last version is stored (on the web), as well as a nice way of getting the zip file? 20:43:16 <Ammler> Rubidium: Wolf01 the problem of this is if you would have that at northside at mountain 20:43:21 <Rubidium> Desolator: AFAIAA no and no 20:43:34 <Ammler> you can't reach the tile to build somthing anymore 20:44:00 <Rubidium> Ammler: but only for under and over foundations close together 20:44:06 <Desolator> for nightlies I get the current rev from the changelog, the latest rev from http://nightly.openttd.org/latest/.rev & the zip from: http://nightly.openttd.org/latest/OTTD-win32-nightly-r*****.zip 20:45:05 <Desolator> brb 20:46:11 <Desolator> back 20:47:25 <Ammler> other link to nightly rev: http://nightly.openttd.org/devs/rev (whats the diff?) 20:47:32 <Rubidium> bruce89: in what manner? 20:47:49 <bruce89> no UI, just a second of music 20:47:51 <Ammler> hmm, date/time 20:48:02 <bruce89> and then a normal exit 20:48:57 <Desolator> I'm asking because I want to rewrite the updater to be cross-platform and want to make it for most stuff 20:49:30 <Ammler> Desolator: something to do with buildottd? 20:49:41 <Desolator> openttd updater 20:50:27 <Rubidium> bruce89: never heard of it (and it works fine for me) 20:50:28 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5acede6c.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:50:53 <bruce89> unmodified svn here, just snuffs it 20:51:05 *** dihedral [~dihedral_@dslb-084-056-211-065.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: gnight] 20:51:30 <Rubidium> bruce89: only a black screen is shown? 20:51:35 <Rubidium> or absolutely nothing? 20:51:36 <bruce89> no screen at all 20:52:15 <Rubidium> what video drivers does openttd -h list? 20:52:22 <glx> did it work before? 20:52:27 <bruce89> of course 20:52:44 <bruce89> null, dedicated 20:53:00 <Rubidium> so no sdl is compiled 20:53:05 <bruce89> oops 20:53:08 <bruce89> my mistake 20:54:09 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5acede6c.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 20:54:35 *** pecisk [~pecisk@78.84.139.234] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:54:38 <bruce89> sorry, forgot to install libsdl1.2-dev 20:55:00 <glx> so not a bug :) 20:55:14 <bruce89> I feel like such an idiot, sorry about that 20:55:37 <glx> happens some times :) 20:55:39 <glx> np 20:57:17 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5acede6c.bb.sky.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:58:13 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5acede6c.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 20:58:22 *** Desolator [Desolator@86.122.150.115] has quit [Quit: Leaving FTW!] 21:04:59 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-109-253.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: brb] 21:05:30 *** bruce89 [~bruce@81-179-117-252.dsl.pipex.com] has left #openttd [] 21:08:55 *** peterbrett [~peter@ptbb2b.girton.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:25:10 <Maarten> ugh... if my servers go down, its because a fiberline probably burned or something weird, I already lost internet twice yesterday, so far so good today thpough :) 21:30:10 <Phazorx> can someone who has euro on their keyboard please type it 21:30:21 <Phazorx> so i want have to search unicode pages for where it is 21:30:31 <glx> ⬠21:30:37 <Phazorx> thank you glx 21:31:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> this is so weird, my font does not have an ⬠symbol... 21:31:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> it just shows blank 21:31:17 <Phazorx> not unicde font? 21:31:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> it does show chinese stuff 21:31:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> and russian stuff 21:32:06 <glx> I hope to have a full unicode font :) 21:32:15 <glx> (one day) 21:32:21 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause3: what os? 21:32:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> linux 21:33:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> it is hard to find the right font... 21:33:09 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause3: sounds like a font I could have made :P 21:33:26 <Eddi|zuHause3> so many criteria 21:33:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> it must be unicode 21:33:47 <Eddi|zuHause3> it must be monospace 21:33:57 <Eddi|zuHause3> it must have large font size 21:34:00 <Bjarni> why monospace? 21:34:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> it must have thick lines on those large font sizes 21:34:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> Bjarni: because of the ASCII art ;p 21:34:47 <Bjarni> ahh 21:35:01 <Bjarni> makes sense 21:35:19 <glx> still not found a nice unicode monospace font 21:35:29 <Bjarni> and you need large font sizes so you can make large ASCII art and look at even bigger ASCII boobies 21:37:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, i just don't want to sit 2cm from the screen to decipher the letters 21:40:05 *** sPooT [~spoot@e142085.upc-e.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 21:41:54 <ln-> how much does it cost to airlift an automobile from, say, finland to somewhere in southern europe? 21:45:26 <Sacro> just drive it 21:45:30 <Sacro> tis a nice days journey 21:46:43 <ln-> driving obviously takes time and money (fuel, accommodation) 21:46:48 <ln-> and besides i don't have a car 21:47:44 <TrueBrain> so why would you want to airlift it? :p 21:47:57 <ln-> and when one has driven 6000 kilometers (3729.024 miles), the motivation to drive around the destination may be significantly lowered. 21:48:11 <TrueBrain> ln-: rent a car there 21:48:44 *** |Bastiaan| [~kvirc@ip87-205-173-82.adsl2.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 21:51:26 <ln-> that's of course the sensible thing to do, but i'd like to know what kind of price magnitude is it. 21:51:44 <TrueBrain> ah :) Well, let me know when you figure it out :) 21:52:38 <ln-> like... if it costs more than a new car, it doesn't make much sense. if it costs something like 5000â¬, it could make sense in some situation. 21:54:23 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C7A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:23 <SpComb> as opposed to renting? 21:59:04 <SpComb> if you're only there for a while, then you can just rent a car, if you're going to be there for a while, then you could just as well take the time to drive there 22:00:02 <ln-> time is money 22:01:15 <SpComb> a day or two compared to how long you'll spend there 22:01:30 <SpComb> airlifting a car will be prohibitively expensive and akward 22:02:02 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB778F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:02:03 <SpComb> and it's not 6mm from finland to south europe 22:02:03 <ln-> that's the assumption, yes, but is that a fact? 22:02:54 *** sPooT [~spoot@e142085.upc-e.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04:17 <ln-> ok, i can believe it would cost ridiculously much if it requires a separate flight, but the mass of a small car is barely 1% of a big cargo plane's capacity. 22:06:54 <TrueBrain> ln-: give me a city in Finland 22:07:04 <Bjarni> Turku 22:07:04 <SpComb> Helsinki 22:07:12 <TrueBrain> are either of you called ln-? 22:07:21 <SpComb> I'm almost called ln, and Bjarni has a @ 22:07:35 <ln-> either of those cities will do. :) 22:07:45 <TrueBrain> ln-: first of, it costs 10% import taxes to airlift a car 22:07:56 <ln-> within schengen? 22:08:04 <TrueBrain> schengen? 22:08:15 <ln-> well, EU 22:08:20 <TrueBrain> to, say, France 22:08:21 <TrueBrain> yes 22:09:17 <Bjarni> believe it or not, but there are taxes within Schengen. Danes can't just go to Germany, buy a car and take to Denmark without paying customs 22:09:34 <TrueBrain> importing cars ALWAYS costs money 22:09:42 <Bjarni> cars are much cheaper in Germany due to the 180% tax on cars in Denmark 22:09:57 <ln-> Bjarni: but you can drive your car to germany and back without paying taxes, no? 22:10:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> i think you can surround import tolls if you state that it is your personal car and you are going to export it again 22:10:15 <TrueBrain> ln-: that is correct 22:10:23 <Bjarni> ln-: yeah 22:10:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> i remember we went through such a procedure when we took our music instruments to america a while back 22:10:53 <Bjarni> but somehow they can figure out if it's purchased recently... like when you try to get Danish license plates for it 22:11:02 <TrueBrain> ln-: nobody wants to give me a price without giving me my name :p 22:11:06 <TrueBrain> so I think that says enough :p 22:11:24 <Bjarni> you can try your luck with German plates in Denmark, but that's really bad if the police notice this as you aren't allowed to do so as a Dane 22:11:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> cars should always be registered at the living place 22:11:54 <Bjarni> yeah 22:12:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> at least if you stay there for more than 3 months 22:12:15 <TrueBrain> you can't buy a car in any EU country if you are not living in that same country 22:12:17 <TrueBrain> not just like that anyway 22:12:24 <ln-> something similar goes for finland; a finnish citizen living in finland is basically cannot legally drive a car with non-finnish plates in finland. 22:12:29 <Bjarni> it's unusual for Danes to move more than 4 times a year every year 22:12:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, only americans move that often :p 22:13:10 <ln-> TrueBrain: too bad, it remains a mystery then. :) 22:13:23 <Eddi|zuHause3> in europe, once you own a piece of land, you usually stay there for the rest of your life 22:13:23 <TrueBrain> ln-: without a valid stay-of-residence, I can't have a car with foreign plates here too (Netherlands) 22:13:45 <Bjarni> actually I once drove a car in Denmark that didn't have Danish license plates. It had Norwegian, but it was ok as the owner was also in the car. I wasn't allowed to take it for a drive on my own though 22:14:05 <TrueBrain> anyway, night all 22:14:19 <Bjarni> ln-: btw what are you trying to do? 22:14:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> you can probably get around such living place requirements, when it is a company owned car 22:14:24 <Bjarni> night TrueBrain 22:14:39 <Bjarni> ln-: buying a car in a cheap country? 22:14:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> then the location the company is registered in counts 22:15:02 <glx> buy a logan :) 22:15:10 <Bjarni> a logan??? 22:15:24 <Bjarni> while you are at it, why not a Tesla Roadster? 22:15:26 <glx> dacia logan are the cheapest car here 22:15:26 <Wolf01> 'night 22:15:27 <Eddi|zuHause3> so if you work for a german company, and live in the netherlands, you can drive such a car 22:15:29 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host180-238-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:16:14 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause3: I don't think that would work in Denmark unless you have to show up in Germany every day for work 22:16:30 <Bjarni> but some people do that if they live near the border 22:16:33 <Eddi|zuHause3> Bjarni: how would they prove that? 22:17:00 <Bjarni> they have to have an address that they have to show up on for work 22:17:40 <ln-> Bjarni: this is mostly theoretical calculation and comparison of airlift versus driving versus renting. 22:17:46 <Eddi|zuHause3> Bjarni: the cars are usually registered at the company headquarter, the workplace of the people is often somewhere completely different 22:18:25 *** Dark_Link^ [~glidegame@fw.dormnet.his.se] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )] 22:18:39 <Bjarni> I don't think that's allowed in Denmark to have an office in Denmark and cars for it that lacks Danish license plates 22:18:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> ln-: driving vs. renting depends on the time you stay there, airlift is just a rediculous idea in itself... 22:19:10 <Bjarni> even the embassies has Danish license plates. Those are fairly easy to spot though since they are blue 22:19:17 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause3: ok, let me rephrase: i'd like to know how ridiculous (in per cent, or so). 22:19:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> Bjarni: at least you often see this within germany 22:20:01 <Bjarni> maybe this is one of the reasons why Danish economy is doing better than the German (when scaled for country size) 22:20:26 <Eddi|zuHause3> economy does not scale with size... 22:20:40 <Eddi|zuHause3> especially if you do not specify which size... 22:20:46 <Bjarni> population 22:21:25 <Bjarni> wouldn't make sense to look at land area 22:21:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> just compare the economy of luxemburg with anyone else... 22:21:37 <Bjarni> because then Greenland would really stick out 22:22:20 <Eddi|zuHause3> these statistics are hardly ever meaningful 22:23:05 <Bjarni> well... how is the economy doing in Germany? 22:23:18 <Bjarni> it could be better, right? 22:23:21 *** Dark_Link^ [~glidegame@fw.dormnet.his.se] has joined #openttd 22:24:08 <Eddi|zuHause3> but this is the general rule... personal owned cars are registered at the same place that the persons living address is registered, and company owned cars are registered where the company (usually headquarter) is registered 22:25:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> if a not further specified big car factory is registered in Stuttgart, then every business car of that company is registered in Stuttgart, even if the employee who drives it goes nowhere in a 500km radius of Stuttgart between his workplace and his living place 22:26:59 <Bjarni> I'm not talking about distance. I'm talking about country boarders 22:27:38 <Bjarni> I think you can assign all your cars to your Danish headquarters if you like 22:28:05 <Bjarni> but you can't switch license plates to another country 22:28:08 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, country borders could make things different, because usually companies do not span borders itself, but rather have a subcompany registered in that country 22:28:27 *** |Bastiaan| [~kvirc@ip87-205-173-82.adsl2.versatel.nl] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/] 22:28:47 *** TheMask97 [martijn@sirius-r5.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 22:29:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> so if that car factory had another factory in denmark, that would be a danish company, and would have danish plates on their business cars, only on high management level it would be connected to the german main factory 22:29:27 <Bjarni> the main reason for this is that you pay fees on the license plates and those fees pays for road repairs so if you move your license to another country while you still use the Danish roads, then you wear on the roads without paying. The system tries to prevent this 22:30:40 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sirius-r5.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:30:44 <Eddi|zuHause3> the system does not necessarily need to prevent this, just balance it out 22:31:17 <Bjarni> There is nothing like this for trains though so they are moved across boarders as needed. If you do an action where you have to pay (like renting tracks), you pay for where and how much you drive and they don't care if it's a Danish or German train as long as they get their money 22:31:54 <Bjarni> I like the rail system better, but it only works because everybody knows how much each train drives 22:32:22 <Bjarni> you can't do this to cars unless you place GPS in them and let the government read it at all times 22:32:37 <Eddi|zuHause3> for example a truck does around 1000 times more damage to roads than a car, so they put up a toll for trucks using the autobahn, which is payed even for foreign trucks 22:32:57 <Bjarni> I know 22:33:18 <Eddi|zuHause3> the real problem is, that they are already on the way to generalising that to all cars 22:33:38 <Eddi|zuHause3> which would have onboard units, to track the paths they go 22:33:44 <Bjarni> some Danish lorry company owner went to the politicians to get reduced tax because now he started to lose money in Germany and he wanted it to be evened out 22:33:53 <Bjarni> I don't think his plan worked 22:34:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> together with 6 months mandatory storing of all mobile phone connections together with the transmitter station which i was connected to... 22:35:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> it's 1984 all over again 22:35:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> Stasi 2.0 22:35:45 <Bjarni> in Denmark you can get cheap insurance if they are allowed to place a tracking device in your car. Every time you are speeding, you increase in insurance payment (sort of like an automated fine). Some people pick this because if they don't speed then it's a really good offer 22:38:30 <Bjarni> there is a difference between this and Stasi 22:39:36 <Bjarni> Stasi did it to protect their own ass. This is to protect society 22:41:38 <Eddi|zuHause3> stasi also wanted to "protect" the "society" 22:41:47 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-166-29.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )] 22:42:05 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 22:43:03 <Eddi|zuHause3> i think it's a really dangerous road to take... if they already start like this now, there might not be a lot of "society" left to protect in ~50 years 22:43:26 <Eddi|zuHause3> but of course politicians don't think further than the next election 22:44:02 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause3: let me put this in another way. Say there is a road with a speed limit of 80 km/h. Often some people drive more than 150 km/h and this is likely to kill random people. Are you willing to keep track of speeding cars on that road? 22:46:03 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause3: are you going to keep track of all the cars on the road to find the speeding cars or are you going to let them continue their deadly race and kill random people? 22:46:36 <Eddi|zuHause3> Bjarni: let me rephrase that: are you rather willing to risk that a random youth guy kills himself while driving 200km/h on a straight road and looses control, or that your future employee that you are applying to can get to know when and how often you cheated on your wife? 22:47:24 <Bjarni> 1: naturally you don't cheat on your wife 22:47:44 <Bjarni> 2: how should your future boss know (how should he get the info)? 22:48:03 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, right... "when you are innocent, you have nothing to hide anyway" 22:48:09 <Bjarni> yeah 22:48:28 <ln-> Bjarni: information can be bought, or searched with google. 22:48:44 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-84-227-150-215.adslplus.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:48:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> ... or hacked, or forced to be open per law... 22:49:01 <Bjarni> hopefully the system should prevent this from happening 22:49:13 <ln-> how? 22:49:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah... "should"... 22:49:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> "nobody has the intention to build a wall" 22:49:26 <Bjarni> 1: don't connect the database to the internet 22:49:54 <Eddi|zuHause3> we all know how that phrase turned out 22:49:57 <Bjarni> that's basically the most secure way of prevent a database from hackers on the net 22:50:03 <ln-> the technology hopefully is not the weak link, but the people using it. 22:50:13 <Bjarni> that's the next issue 22:51:05 <Bjarni> we should punish lawbreakers when we find them instead of sending them to the jails we have today... some of them are kind of like hotels 22:51:14 <Bjarni> and they should stay there 22:51:44 <Bjarni> this will partly solve the problem. If the gain is not worth the risk then the problem is reduced a lot 22:52:29 <Bjarni> also how do you read the data... what if the staff can't access individual people to track them? 22:53:00 <ln-> in order to be punished, one should first get caught. 22:53:07 <Bjarni> like if it is based on what cars are on a road instead of "where is this car"? 22:53:15 <ln-> and at that point the leak has already happened. 22:54:28 <Bjarni> why do I feel like you guys tries to hide your whereabouts? 22:56:06 <ln-> Bjarni: clearly someone will have the access to make any kind of queries he wants. 22:56:12 <Bjarni> you know, in a train today, the position is recorded with GPS. Changes in location calculates the speed. The record also shows who is on board. All this is logged and can be read at a later date (usually only looked at in case of accidents). Is this a problem? 22:56:22 <Bjarni> oh, all radio communication is also logged 22:56:39 <ln-> what record? 22:56:57 <Bjarni> the railroad has some central record where all trains are logged 22:57:16 <ln-> do your trains have passenger manifests? 22:57:28 <Bjarni> usually not 22:57:57 <Bjarni> but I'm talking about the crew 22:58:09 <Bjarni> they are always logged who they are 22:59:00 <Bjarni> in fact if the driver goes to the bathroom or something and will not miss out on radio calls while he is away from the engine, the GPS will track his movement to the bathroom and it will later be visible if he were walking or running toward it 22:59:16 <Bjarni> this is how it is now. Do you consider this to be a problem? 22:59:17 <ln-> but if one chooses to skip their day at work, you don't know their location anymore. 22:59:22 <Bjarni> nobody bothers to look at this data 22:59:48 <Bjarni> naturally if they aren't at work, they can't be tracked 22:59:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> a company keeping track of its employees at work is a whole other issue than a state keeping track of its citizens no matter when 23:00:15 <Bjarni> since they are tracked from when they start the train until they stop it 23:00:40 <Bjarni> but it's not (only) the railroad company keeping track 23:01:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, but the railroad company cannot keep track of you once you leave the railroad 23:01:22 <Bjarni> parts of this is mandatory documentation to show the government. Usually they are the only ones looking at it 23:01:46 <Eddi|zuHause3> so, and who is "the government", and what is "usually"? 23:01:56 <Bjarni> and they only bother if the train derails or something. Then they want to know if anybody mentioned the bad tracks on the radio and how fast the train drove 23:02:16 <Eddi|zuHause3> the railroad surveillence department, sure 23:02:30 <ln-> if you go to work to your office in the morning, and leave it in the afternoon, and others have seen you, you have been "tracked" and your location during that day is known. 23:02:30 <Eddi|zuHause3> criminal investigation? 23:02:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> terror defence? 23:02:39 <Bjarni> government is the "unit" that ensures that railroad safety is ok. Kind of like how police acts on the roads 23:02:43 <Eddi|zuHause3> intelligence agencies? 23:03:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> once one intelligence agency has access to this kind of data, all intelligence agencies all over the world have access to it 23:03:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> do they also count as "the government"? 23:03:54 <Bjarni> and "usually" as I presume that the railroad keeps track of how the individual trains acts when they are delayed and stuff 23:03:55 <ln-> Bjarni: what do you think about the claim: if data is available, it will be abused (because of curiosity or money, or whatever) sooner or later, be it legal or not? 23:05:04 <ln-> especially if the risk of getting caught is minimal. 23:05:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> what do you say when your (tourist-) visum to USA is rejected because they found out you showed up late at work often? 23:05:14 *** G [~njones@202.154.150.116] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:05:14 <ln-> (visum -> visa) 23:05:31 <Eddi|zuHause3> visum is the singular of visa 23:05:42 <ln-> but it's not english 23:05:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> at least in "real" languages ;) 23:06:07 <ln-> well, yes, you know what happens when you mix up german, french and swedish. 23:06:13 <Bjarni> why would they reject you based on something like that? 23:06:28 <ln-> why the hell not? 23:06:37 <Eddi|zuHause3> because they state that you could support terroristic activity in that time? 23:06:45 <Bjarni> then they might as well reject you for being too tall 23:06:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> or just that they can prove rebellious character of yours? 23:07:18 *** G [~njones@202.154.150.116] has joined #openttd 23:07:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> if you disobey one rule, why should they expect you to obey other rules? 23:07:50 <ln-> i heard of a case, where a finnish woman in her 20's had applied for a 3-month-or-so visa to the US in order to visit her sister's family and travel around the states... and she got the visa, too. 23:08:12 <Bjarni> so basically we should have no traffic control because then you fear to be mistaken as terrorists? 23:08:38 <ln-> ... at JFK, the officials decided she's likely to stay in the states after the visa expires, as an illegal immigrant, so she was handcuffed and returned to the Finnair plane. 23:10:09 <Bjarni> well... in Russia she would have been jailed by FSB even if she had approved papers from FSB 23:11:54 <ln-> i haven't heard of any even remotely similar cases with Russian authorities 23:12:08 <Bjarni> I have heard of one 23:13:55 <Bjarni> a non-Russian business man taking a one day trip from one part of the country to another with the proper papers from the local FSB office (FSB tracks everybody there... just like KGB did) and on arrival he was arrested while they checked his papers and while they could see that they were not faked, they disagreed with the order and kept him for a week 23:14:02 <Sacro> ahh Bjarni 23:14:14 <ln-> was that before or after the russian revolution of 1917? 23:14:26 <Bjarni> it was in 2002 or something 23:15:04 <ln-> 02:03 < ln-> Bjarni: what do you think about the claim: if data is available, it will be abused (because of curiosity or money, or whatever) sooner or later, be it legal or not? 23:15:54 <Bjarni> Sacro: do you feel that security cameras are there to record you to be used against you at a later date like when you are trying to get a job? 23:16:05 <Bjarni> I bet Sacro is recorded every single day 23:16:18 <Bjarni> well, except on weekends where he stays at home 23:16:25 *** Arpad58 [~Gali@bravo839.server4you.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:16:25 <Sacro> Bjarni: security cameras don't bother me 23:16:31 <Sacro> i don't lead a very interesting life 23:16:50 <Sacro> the one person whose more sad than me is the guy who sits and watches what i do 23:17:32 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-138-229.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:18:10 <Bjarni> Sacro: how would you feel if you had a car and the government could track this car. They will use this info for road pricing and speeding tickets (kind of like how the cameras are used)? 23:18:28 <Sacro> i can't stand the idea of pay per mile 23:18:37 <Sacro> sometimes i just like to get on my motorbike and head off down a road 23:18:59 <Bjarni> well.. that's one way to put it 23:19:08 <Sacro> i already pay fuel tax 23:19:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> i'm sure there would be "flatrate" offers, but that is not the point 23:19:17 <Sacro> our country has the cheapest fuel in the EU (pre tax) 23:19:33 <Sacro> our country has the most expensive fuel in the EU (post tax) 23:19:35 <ln-> Sacro: see, you don't fight in iraq for nothing 23:20:36 <Bjarni> Sacro: forget about the issue about paying per mile... the issue we are talking about is the possibility of other people to track your movement. How would you feel about this? 23:20:48 <Sacro> Bjarni: it depends 23:20:59 <Sacro> if i'm just aimlessly driving around then it's fine 23:21:05 <Sacro> but sometimes I just want some alone time 23:21:08 <Bjarni> the data is secured like the data recorded with video today 23:21:55 <Bjarni> so if anybody decides to look at it, they have to have access clearance and it will be logged so it's not something people do without any reason 23:22:09 <glx> here we have automatic speed control, but we learnt today that most of them are not correctly installed 23:23:07 <glx> so they can tell you were driving at 96km/h when you were at 88km/h 23:23:20 *** Frostregen_ [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-188-093.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 23:23:23 <Bjarni> we have a piece of road where the police can't measure speed (limited space next to the road) and the politicians banned camera speed control, so those guys who wants to drive really fast go there and drive 200+ km/h 23:23:49 <Bjarni> because you can't get caught 23:24:12 <Bjarni> it goes without saying that it's a place with frequent major accidents 23:24:45 <glx> you can't stop stupid people to be stupid 23:25:07 <Bjarni> but you can catch them and try to prevent them from doing it over and over 23:25:31 <Bjarni> <Sacro> but sometimes I just want some alone time <-- and you think you can get that with the cameras, but not with a tracking device? 23:26:10 *** Frostregen [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-148-104.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:26:19 <ln-> Bjarni: speed measurement does not require cameras or radars. 23:26:30 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen 23:26:56 <Bjarni> then how will you do it? 23:27:15 *** sponge [sponge@129.21.159.114] has joined #openttd 23:27:23 <Sacro> why do you want to stop stupid people? 23:27:28 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB778F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai] 23:27:38 <glx> because they can kill you 23:27:40 <Sacro> darwin tells us that sooner or later they will evolve themselves out 23:27:43 <Bjarni> the idea is to prevent them from killing random people 23:28:00 <ln-> Bjarni: x = v*t 23:28:24 <ln-> solve t 23:28:31 <Bjarni> ln-: yeah, but how do you plan on doing this? You need to get the info somehow 23:29:12 <glx> induction loop could be used for that 23:29:31 <ln-> Bjarni: you place one policeman with a radio at x[0]. he reports the plate numbers to the patrol at x[0]+2km. 23:29:44 <Bjarni> the issue is that if the police uses this, then they have to have one guy keeping track of a car and measure the time between two known spots (hence x and t) and to do this they need to be in a helicopter 23:30:24 <Bjarni> I don't think the law allows for two police officers to work together like this 23:30:32 <ln-> i don't see a helicopter anywhere in "x = v*t" 23:30:39 <glx> and if you see the first you slow down 23:31:05 <Bjarni> you see it feels like the laws the police can use to catch speeding cars are made by politicians who don't want to get caught 23:31:07 <glx> but can be a solution to force people to slow down 23:31:08 <ln-> glx: he doesn't need to be particularly visible. 23:31:21 <glx> ln-: that's illegal here 23:31:31 <glx> they must be visible 23:31:39 <Bjarni> we know for a fact that the minister (former government) was caught driving 18x km/h where the limit was 110 km/h 23:31:50 *** Frostregen_ [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-136-229.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 23:32:00 <glx> wasn't his driver? 23:32:13 <Bjarni> so not surprisingly he never really gave the police permission to automatically track cars 23:32:18 <Bjarni> he was his own driver at the time 23:32:24 <ln-> glx: well i don't mean like hiding in the bushes, but rather sitting in a (civilian-looking) car. is that illegal too? 23:32:25 <Bjarni> off hours 23:32:29 <Bjarni> during the weekend 23:32:31 *** BigBB [~BigBB@p5B043440.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 23:33:26 <glx> they must be in uniform 23:33:34 <Bjarni> the police don't have to be visible here but they aren't allowed to measure speed unless they have a man on the location dedicated to measure speed 23:33:54 <ln-> glx: uniform is fine. 23:34:38 <Bjarni> so it's ok to set up a camera that takes pictures of all speeding cars as long as it has a police officer next to it looking at it 23:34:58 <Bjarni> in theory it will do the very same task if he leaves, but then it's not valid reason to fine the drivers anymore 23:35:00 <glx> and usually the first measure speed and tell the second to stop you if you were driving too fast 23:35:15 *** Frostregen31 [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-141-147.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 23:35:22 *** Frostregen [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-188-093.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:35:26 *** Frostregen31 is now known as Frostregen 23:35:27 <ln-> i was just about to ask Bjarni whether their cops don't have a second patrol handling the stopping. 23:35:56 <Bjarni> they can tell another patrol to actually stop the car if they like 23:36:43 <Bjarni> they often do that, but then they have to be like 4 people or so working on this particular task... they don't have the staff to do that often enough 23:37:41 <Bjarni> I like the Dutch solution where all license plates are memorised at certain spots and since the system knows the distance it can calculate the speed and fine the drivers if needed 23:37:51 <Bjarni> the politicians here don't want it :s 23:39:52 <glx> http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Nouvelle_armoire_automatique.jpg <-- we have these nice boxes 23:40:07 <Sacro> http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,512897,00.html 23:40:14 <Sacro> strange german pensioners 23:40:32 <glx> most of them gives incorrect speeds as a recent report said 23:41:11 <glx> because positionning angle has not been verified carefully 23:41:15 *** Frostregen_ [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-136-229.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:42:15 <Bjarni> oh speaking of fines... some German tourist parked illegally and blocked the access road for a firetruck. The firetruck then pushed it away and moved on. The police showed up and found the owner looking at his car. One of the officers walked up to him and said "this isn't good... we need to know who you are and where you live". He then gave all the info they asked for and then they said "now you will get a parking fine and a bill fo 23:42:15 <Bjarni> r fixing the firetruck with the mail and you have 24 hours to get your car moved away or you will be fined for dumping a wrecked car as well"... then he got mighty upset 23:42:52 <Bjarni> but hey.... he blocked the accessway to a burning building so the firetruck had no choice and it was clearly signed... he should have known better :P 23:44:24 <Bjarni> Sacro: "the pensioner had been trying to get to a cemetery" <--- that can be read in more than one way :P 23:44:31 <Sacro> Bjarni: heh 23:44:41 <Sacro> doing 3mph on an autobahn is a good way 23:47:10 <Bjarni> we once had to get from A to B at school (part of gym) and we should do it on our own (we each had a map). One guy decided to take a shortcut and crossed the freeway on foot.... in front of a police car. Those officers were so kind to him that they drove him the last way (he clearly didn't want to walk more than absolutely needed) and they had a little chat with the teacher 23:47:26 <Bjarni> he was 16 at the time 23:47:35 <Bjarni> I think 23:47:47 <Bjarni> maybe 17 23:49:16 <Bjarni> <Sacro> doing 3mph on an autobahn is a good way <-- going against the traffic is another good way 23:49:34 <ln-> Bjarni: does the goverment surveillance camera in your bedroom bother you? 23:50:02 <Bjarni> like they would be interested in the amount of action that doesn't take place there :P 23:50:35 <ln-> but, well, if everyone had one in their bedroom. 23:50:40 <Bjarni> there is a difference between being at home and outside home 23:51:00 <Bjarni> I see no logical reason for the government to be a peeping Tom 23:51:14 <Sacro> actually 23:51:30 <Sacro> i'd work for the government if i could perve on the girls next door 23:51:38 <Bjarni> good point 23:51:59 <ln-> Bjarni: that could help preventing crimes, e.g. rapes and interaction with minors taking place in people's bedrooms. 23:52:15 <Bjarni> but how would you justify that as a crime preventing issue? 23:53:00 <Bjarni> ln- has a point 23:53:10 <Bjarni> but then we would need to put up cameras everywhere 23:53:18 <Bjarni> secret basements included 23:54:26 <Bjarni> but... the cost/security gained radio might not be high 23:54:37 <Bjarni> it would be better to secure the roads 23:54:46 <Bjarni> specially if it's combined with road pricing 23:56:00 <Bjarni> actually... I fail to see the link between speed control on roads and recording people's bedrooms 23:56:15 <ln-> Bjarni: well the FBI put hundreds of millions of dollars on a new, computerized case file system, and eventually had to abandon the system before it was even taken into use. 23:56:26 <Bjarni> if you want to do something that nobody else should know about, do it at home 23:57:00 <Bjarni> so? 23:57:08 <Bjarni> I fail to see the connection 23:57:12 <ln-> so money is not an issue when there's a lot of it. 23:57:22 <Bjarni> money is always an issue 23:57:35 <Bjarni> somebody screws up once in a while 23:57:42 <Bjarni> that's not the same as money isn't an issue 23:58:03 <Bjarni> ln-: do you want a 0 ice cream 23:58:14 <Bjarni> it's just like a normal one, except it costs 0 23:58:28 <Bjarni> you just claimed money not to be an issue :P 23:58:45 <ln-> _when there's a lot of it_. 23:59:34 <Bjarni> basically you are saying that you don't want the police to be able to track speeding cars if we don't record all bedrooms as well? 23:59:51 <Bjarni> that sounds like the mafia