Log for #openttd on 1st November 2007:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:26  *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
00:00:39  <Belugas> and there is prop23 to finish too... so... if you excuse me, i have code to write
00:00:49  <fjb> What new featureis that?
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00:01:10  <Belugas> a feature to kill wine
00:01:14  <Belugas> lol
00:01:42  <Belugas> little curious... you will know when it will be ready.  In the mean time, learn NFO if you want to code that new feature
00:02:04  <fjb> :-)
00:02:04  *** BigBB [] has quit [Quit: BigBB]
00:02:25  <LeviathNL> working on it :)
00:02:40  * fjb thinbk avbout writing a nfo assembler because he is lazy.
00:03:46  <Sacro> I had a mate who was suicidal.
00:03:47  <Sacro> He was really depressed, so I pushed him in front of a steam train.
00:03:47  <Sacro> He was chuffed to bits.
00:04:11  <glx> I already read that story
00:05:57  <Galamantyl> Doesn't the max loan increment by 0,000 every 10 years?
00:06:48  <glx> inflation and difficulty settings I think
00:07:22  <Galamantyl> It's on hard
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00:08:08  <Sacro> "A section of single track railway line operates between two stations.
00:08:08  <Sacro> Explain the options to achieve a pattern of working that avoids
00:08:08  <Sacro> collisions on this single track section."
00:08:16  <Sacro> Can anyone tell me what that has to do with Computer Systems?
00:08:45  <glx> algorithm
00:12:15  <Sacro> glx: well, possibly
00:12:26  <Sacro> but tbh, i'd use pilotmen
00:12:30  <Sacro> or have bidi signalling
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00:15:11  <tiaz_> what happens if an exit-block signal has no enter-block signal before it?
00:15:26  <Sacro> tiaz_: a large man will come round and thump you over the head
00:15:46  <tiaz_> but how else am I supposed to presignal non-roro stations :(
00:16:04  <Sacro> pre sig, X, exit sig, station
00:16:26  <tiaz_> right, and then going the other way they go through an exit sig with no associated presig
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00:16:32  <Sacro> oh yeah...
00:16:34  <Sacro> yeah thats fine
00:16:36  <tiaz_> you have ->pre, X, <>exit, station
00:16:36  <tiaz_> okay
00:16:42  <tiaz_> cool :)
00:21:10  <Sacro> Bjarni:
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00:41:02  <fjb> Night
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01:16:30  <Bjarni> Sacro: what an awesome link :D
01:17:11  <Bjarni> and cool that they would target a guy like that. I mean here we wouldn't dream of doing anything like that to a famous person from another country
01:21:55  <Galamantyl> Does the auto-replace button in a depot actually work?
01:22:26  <Galamantyl> I ask because it's not working for me
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01:23:31  <Bjarni> it is working
01:23:46  <Bjarni> every time we get a statement like that it's the result of a user input error
01:23:48  <Galamantyl> k, well... when I click it, nothing happens
01:24:00  <Galamantyl> ...
01:24:16  <Galamantyl> Alright, so... What do I have to do to auto-replace?
01:24:18  <glx> did you set a replacement?
01:24:26  <Bjarni> you set something to be replaced and it will be replaced once it enters a depot
01:24:40  <Bjarni> but you can use this button to replace everything in the depot
01:24:53  <Galamantyl> Alright, well, how do I set replacements for my RVs?
01:25:00  <Bjarni> ...
01:25:05  <Galamantyl> if I go under manage in the depot, no vehicles show up
01:25:13  <Bjarni> in the autoreplace RV window
01:25:26  <Galamantyl> There is no autoreplace RV window
01:25:39  <Bjarni>
01:25:44  <tiaz_> go to the master list of RVs, then select manage/replace vehicles
01:26:40  <Galamantyl> I don't want to immediately replace all of them tho
01:26:48  <tiaz_> It won't.
01:26:51  <Galamantyl> Just the ones that are dying
01:26:55  <tiaz_> oh ...
01:26:58  <Galamantyl> Okay, so if I click 'start replacing'...
01:27:08  <tiaz_> I don't remember, I've never done age-based replacing though.
01:27:08  <Galamantyl> All my RVs won't go to a depot and replace themselves...
01:27:15  <tiaz_> No, they don't
01:27:18  <Bjarni> <Galamantyl> Just the ones that are dying <-- then you should use autorenew
01:27:21  <tiaz_> but it will replace them regardless of age.
01:27:28  <tiaz_> what bjarni said listen to him he's smarter than me :)
01:27:36  <Galamantyl> How do I turn on autorenew?
01:27:45  <Bjarni> I coded this stuff so I should know how it works ;)
01:27:49  <tiaz_> under configure patches
01:28:21  <tiaz_> in that case, thanks for breathing new life into ttd :)
01:28:32  <tiaz_> I couldn't bear to play ttd anymore without those patches right around the time openttd came out
01:30:10  <Bjarni> well... I once took over a deserted company in an MP game and I spent like 20 minutes replacing the steam trains to modern trains and I was still far from done and I thought "this is boring" so I started coding autoreplace the next day
01:30:20  <Bjarni> I didn't have time to code the same day
01:30:21  <Galamantyl> I'm starting to dislike OpenTTD to be honest.  I'm hosting a challenging hard-mode game and people are quitting because they want special stuff toggled on or they can't make affordable railways because of the hills.
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01:30:48  <Bjarni> more people should do as I do: start to code whenever you realise there is a missing feature
01:30:52  <tiaz_> one thing I wish it had it doesn't is liquidating a company you takeover in SP
01:31:02  <tiaz_> I don't want the AI's crap, usually when I buyt hem I just want them out of the way
01:31:18  <tiaz_> I don't think I know the requisite language :(
01:36:17  <Bjarni> anyway I was actually heading for bed
01:36:27  <Bjarni> you guys can try to stop me, but it won't work :P
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02:15:09  <MVXA> hi
02:15:27  <MVXA> I have a question about a picture in the wiki.
02:15:42  <MVXA> i'm not sure but I think this can't work well...
02:17:47  <glx> why can't it work?
02:17:54  <MVXA> ehm
02:17:59  <MVXA> for example look at the southern exit
02:18:15  <MVXA> the way with the exit signal points to an one way signal
02:18:43  <glx> signal magic
02:18:47  <MVXA> ah O_o
02:31:58  <Phazorx> roundabouts are evil
02:32:06  <Phazorx> probably as evil as cloverleafs
02:33:39  <MVXA> which 4-way junction should I use oO? Can't decide ._.
02:33:54  <Phazorx> invent your own
02:34:00  <MVXA> urgh...
02:34:04  <Phazorx> this one can be improved by a bit
02:34:46  <Phazorx> if you have 2 cirlces sort of and trains that do 270 go left rathrt that tight
02:35:53  <Phazorx> basicaly prolong diagons that lead to exit presignals till they cross with track right after reguular, and you increase throguhupt by 100% in some cases
02:37:01  <Phazorx> and in general for throughupt oriented networks you shouldhub it in  a way that it always splits before merging
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02:44:38  <MVXA> k. Got it. It's now a 3-way based junction since only 3 ways are really important and the fourth way is more for decoration (only 4 trains). Bye
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03:07:31  <Tefad> are there papermills in temperate with ECS?
03:07:33  <Tefad> i'm confused
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03:53:48  <Phazorx> where is ~35 new industries in temperate with ECS
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04:05:31  <Tefad> where?
04:05:38  <Tefad> nfc.
04:05:54  <Tefad> maybe they meant routes
04:06:04  <Tefad> or paths, whatever
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04:34:14  <MVXA> hi, me again..
04:35:01  <MVXA> I found the article about trams in the wiki. I checked out the source from svn and compiled the stuff, loaded the grf and installed all but I can't use trams :(
04:35:10  <MVXA> menuitem is still grey
04:36:41  <Phazorx> MVXA: year?
04:36:53  <MVXA> 2020
04:37:45  <Phazorx> Tefad: all verctors combined give you about 17 chains, 32 cargos and 35-27 industries
04:38:08  <Phazorx> MVXA: perhaps all engines from the set you included expired already?
04:38:36  <MVXA> huh
04:39:07  <Tefad> Phazorx: are some not supported in ottd or something?
04:39:11  <MVXA> changed year to 1990 and the menuitem is still grey =(
04:39:14  <Phazorx> which tramset you have and is patch option for presistent engines off ?
04:39:27  <Tefad> i'm getting a paper mill that's making food...
04:39:31  <Phazorx> Tefad: you have to use vectors in correct order
04:39:38  <MVXA> mhhh
04:39:40  <MVXA> ah
04:39:43  <Phazorx> Tefad: most likely you have wrong order then
04:39:48  <MVXA> I think I know whats wrong
04:40:50  <Tefad> i've got 7 ECS GRFs in what appears to be proper sequence
04:41:03  <Tefad> town basic chem mach wood con agr
04:41:09  <Phazorx> Tefad: proper is GRFID order
04:41:29  <Tefad> they are
04:41:37  <MVXA> uh
04:41:46  <MVXA> have it ._.
04:41:51  <Tefad> what is it
04:41:58  <MVXA> I had only the ways but no trains xD
04:43:17  <MVXA> mhhh
04:43:25  <MVXA> i like trams =D!
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04:44:16  <MVXA> hum
04:44:34  <Tefad> ah ha.
04:44:36  <MVXA> it seems that I can't build stations on the street owned by the city...
04:44:40  <MVXA> bad ._.
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04:47:02  <Phazorx> check patch options
04:48:22  <MVXA> ah
04:48:23  <MVXA> wheee =D
04:48:27  <MVXA> incredible, thank you
04:49:01  <MVXA> bye =D
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04:51:52  <Tefad> pk industies compatible with ECS?
04:52:59  <Tefad> perhaps redundant?
04:53:02  * Tefad shrugs
04:53:31  <Phazorx> pbi ?
04:53:34  <Tefad> yeah
04:53:37  <Phazorx> either or
04:53:40  <Tefad> thought so
04:53:54  <Phazorx> cant use both, especialy due to ECS using all cargo types
04:54:09  <Tefad> ah ok
04:54:17  <Phazorx> can use std+nc, pbi, pbi+bc or ecs
04:54:55  <Tefad> bc?
04:55:00  <Phazorx> brick chain
04:55:05  <Tefad> ah
04:55:25  <Tefad> ecs is a bit nutty
04:55:29  <Tefad> i like nutty.
04:55:39  <Phazorx> it quite unbalanced
04:55:53  <Tefad> oh?
04:56:02  <Phazorx> some carogs are plenty some never enough
04:56:16  <Tefad> sand is crazy
04:56:37  <Phazorx> also vehicles part isnt working
04:56:37  <Tefad> or was the last time i played
04:56:46  <Tefad> i can use lv4 yes?
04:56:51  <Phazorx> neither in ttdp or ottd
04:56:56  <Phazorx> lv4 was always compatibe
04:57:30  <Phazorx> i mean vehicles made in machinery vector dont have effect as supposed to on many primaries that require them
04:57:51  <Tefad> what are they supposed to do? increase output?
04:58:07  <Tefad> nabs conflict with ttrs?
04:58:28  <Phazorx> nabs?
04:58:38  <Tefad> north american building set
04:58:42  <Phazorx> Tefad: according to spec they are consumed for increased production
04:59:12  <Phazorx> Tefad: dont recall how nabs deal with newhouses but probably similar to ttrs so they override each other
04:59:21  <Phazorx> and should nto be used at same time
04:59:26  <Phazorx> same as train sets
04:59:31  <Tefad> ok.
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06:34:09  <Tefad> openttd: /home/tefad/src/ottd/src/slope.h:347: Foundation FlatteningFoundation(Slope): Assertion `!IsSteepSlope(s)' failed. O_o
06:57:57  <Rubidium> poor Tefad... but you should know what to do about it
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07:15:07  <mikk36|work> hey :)
07:15:23  <mikk36|work> check this out:
07:15:23  <mikk36|work> :D
07:15:34  <mikk36|work> coworker just got 3 of such from his dad :P
07:17:09  <peterbrett> mikk36|work: Oh, that's lovely.
07:17:53  <mikk36|work> 3 next pictures are about that one too
07:18:44  <mikk36|work> lol
07:18:54  <mikk36|work> the taste is to be very weird
07:19:12  <mikk36|work> doesn't exactly make you puke but still enough odd
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08:04:29  <Gekz> that's just wtfd
08:04:37  <Gekz> that's meant to be what, a grapefruit?
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08:10:07  <dihedral> ??
08:10:34  <Gekz>
08:12:26  <dihedral> those pips dont look like normal orange or grapefruit pips...
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08:30:24  <Sacro> gooood morning
08:31:53  <dihedral> morning
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09:55:33  <Wolf01> hello
09:55:49  <dihedral> hi
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10:01:31  <mcbane> hi
10:01:33  <mcbane> hmm
10:02:04  <mcbane> tourist center works even tho its shown wrong in the station accept/rating
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10:40:27  <Ailure> bah
10:41:34  <Wolf01> agreed
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10:47:39  <mcbane> when it sais accept tourists it accept all other needed cargo also
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11:12:21  <Jumpingmanjim> hey guys
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11:12:50  <Jumpingmanjim> yoohoo
11:13:17  <Jumpingmanjim> anyone home?
11:13:54  <Gonozal_VIII> O_o a train on a bridge just got flooded
11:15:11  <Jumpingmanjim> anyone still interested in getting all the graphics replaced?
11:15:15  <LeviathNL> CrisIN?
11:15:17  <Jumpingmanjim> so openttd can be free?
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11:17:17  <Gonozal_VIII> yes chrisin
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11:18:16  <fjb> Moin
11:18:35  <LeviathNL> hi
11:18:36  <Gonozal_VIII> raised sea floor problem?
11:18:40  <SpComb> Logs: (old: )
11:18:40  <fjb> !logs
11:18:54  <Jumpingmanjim> anyone?
11:20:20  <TrueBrain> Jumpingmanjim: check the forums, Graphics subforum
11:20:35  <Jumpingmanjim> yeah i noticed
11:20:39  <Jumpingmanjim> its dead
11:21:43  <Jumpingmanjim> what happened?
11:21:53  <Jumpingmanjim> did people just give up on the idea
11:21:54  <Jumpingmanjim> ?
11:21:55  <LeviathNL> Why'd George want that positioning conditions, now it is very rare to be seen ingame.
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11:25:53  <Gonozal_VIII> why is chrisin 11355 a newer version than the nightly 11364?
11:25:55  <TrueBrain> people always demand an answer within a very short timespan... oh well, too bad
11:26:18  <TrueBrain> Gonozal_VIII: it isn't
11:26:44  <Gonozal_VIII> it says so when i try to load a game
11:27:02  <TrueBrain> ah, the savegame versions are, tha tis possible, yes
11:27:03  <fjb> LeviathNL: George likes to make things complicated. At least that is Michaels theory.
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11:29:03  <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: ChrisIN has more features than trunk. So trunk could not load a ChrisIN save. That's why Chris sets the verion number of the save much higher than any version trunk.
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11:31:17  <Gonozal_VIII> ok thanks
11:33:27  <Gonozal_VIII> we started the game in trunk somewere around 111xx then moved on to the chrisin version before the new one and now there's the flooding thing
11:35:58  <Gonozal_VIII> does anyone know if that also happens in new games?
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11:37:38  <Gonozal_VIII> yes..
11:41:04  <Gonozal_VIII> happens with all, sea level is 0, raised sea floor and raised sea level
11:43:54  <Gonozal_VIII> not in trunk :-)
11:45:29  <fjb> Trunk doesn't have that raised sea level feature.
11:46:08  <Gonozal_VIII> i know but it happens with all sea level settings so i thought that wouldn't be the problem
11:47:45  <Gonozal_VIII> chrisin with all grfs disabled... flooded kirby
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11:53:42  <Gonozal_VIII> btw what is hs.dat?
11:54:38  <Wolf01> highscore maybe
11:54:56  <Gonozal_VIII> aah
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12:59:22  <Belugas> !seen frosch123
12:59:22  <_42_> Belugas, frosch123 ( was last seen quitting #openttd.notice 1 day 20 hours 10 minutes ago (30.10. 16:48) stating "Remote host closed the connection" after spending 2 hours 21 minutes there.
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13:01:30  <Wolf01> hello Belugas
13:02:13  <Belugas> hello Wolf01
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13:05:26  <Sacro> rawr
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13:10:23  <Ammler> Heya, is it somehow possible to prevent industries from "selfappearing"?
13:10:38  <Ammler> or would that need a new patch?
13:11:12  <Belugas> no patch exist for that. you would have to do it yourself
13:11:24  <Belugas> note that it is pretty easy to do, tough....
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13:11:33  <Ammler> thought so...
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13:11:51  <Ammler> something like the notree patch :)
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13:12:29  <Belugas> even simpler...
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13:13:22  <Belugas> induistry_cmd.cpp:1993(maybe), function IndustryMonthlyLoop
13:13:42  <Ammler> I had successful placed ECS castle newschwanstein and tourist resort, but not able to place this GoodrichCastle (
13:13:49  <Gonozal_VIII> there is a very simple notree patch? why is that not in trunk? would be nice to reduce game size for multiplayer sometimes
13:14:10  <Belugas> remove 3 lines, starting by "if (CHANCE16(3, 100)) {"
13:14:14  <Ammler> it always tell that there is another industrie in the near,, but I "cheated" eveything away
13:14:22  <Belugas> and remove last "}" from the blick, of course
13:15:23  <Ammler> wouldn't that be worth for a switch?
13:15:46  <Ammler> (in the cfg, I meant)
13:16:35  <Belugas> no, it will not be made into trunk either
13:17:01  <Gonozal_VIII> why?
13:17:08  <Ammler> would that need so much resources?
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13:20:23  <Belugas> simply put, we will not change the production model
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13:21:00  <Belugas> and invasion of switches have to be controled
13:21:25  <Ammler> yeah, I know. :)
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13:26:31  <Ammler> multiple_industry_per_town <-- converting to int?
13:27:12  <Ammler> 0=only 1, 1=multiple, 2=none
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13:28:07  <Wolf01> why "none"?
13:28:28  <Ammler> if you like to play a scenario
13:28:51  <Ammler> sometimes industries appear in wrong places
13:29:11  <Ammler> no problem in SP, you can cheat it away, but on MP, its more work
13:30:23  <Ammler> it could happen that a Powerstation appear near a Steel mill and does steal the coal from it
13:30:27  <Ammler> (in PBI)
13:30:58  <Ammler> so you have to move the whole station or even to cheat...
13:31:24  <Wolf01> but multiple industries mean multiple industries of the same type
13:31:54  <Gonozal_VIII> 0 of each type means none at all
13:31:55  <Ammler> hmm, bad switch
13:32:09  <Ammler> just looked for an existing one
13:32:45  <Wolf01> add another switch to enable disable the random funding of industries during game
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13:33:10  <Gonozal_VIII> that's what he wanted
13:33:16  <Ammler> devs don't like switches, some patches don't get to trunk, just because of that
13:33:27  <mikk36|work> <-- a bit obscure data there ?
13:33:40  <Gonozal_VIII> i like switches, the more options the better
13:34:07  <TrueBrain> Ammler: don't tell lies, it is bad
13:34:08  <Ammler> its very hard to manage them all
13:34:20  <Wolf01> or use the ECS, where after 50 years all disappear but sand pits, potash mines and vehicle factories... totally useless
13:34:38  <Belugas> Gonozal_VIII, maybe for you, but not for us.  if the code get so complicated and circumvoluted, it gets to a point where it's not fun anymore to code
13:34:53  <Gonozal_VIII> maybe add a switch that switches those switches on/off (advanced configuration or something)
13:35:05  <Gonozal_VIII> ah codewise...
13:35:10  <Ammler> you have still the switches then...
13:35:22  <Belugas> and Ammler, some patches get into trunk with switches, when the patch is usefull.  but most of tghe patches are quite boring ones,
13:35:33  <Belugas> with very little interest,
13:35:36  <BigBB> you have an advanced configuration already, you can change more option in the openttd.cfg than in the gui ;)
13:35:41  <Belugas> only for the guy who wrote it
13:36:39  <Ammler> yeah, I know that also do understand that...
13:37:33  <Wolf01> BigBB, almost all what you can change in the .cfg you can change in the gui, except for pathfinding and network section, all the patches are customisable in game
13:37:48  <TrueBrain> Wolf01: drivers aren't ;)
13:38:02  <BigBB> almost, but not all :)
13:38:37  <Ammler> Maybe something like that would help to know which are more insterested which less: ?
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13:39:19  <BigBB> Wolf01, all penalitys can only changed in the cfg-file (like road_stop_penalty)
13:39:48  <TrueBrain> BigBB: he said: except pathfinding :)
13:39:54  <Gonozal_VIII> if it's just a matter of disabling 3 lines of code, a switch would only require a boolean and an if around those lines
13:39:59  <BigBB> uh, my fault :)
13:40:47  <Belugas> Gonozal_VIII, nobody stops you to write your own patch and use it on your own version
13:41:20  * Belugas is gone on customer's site for a while
13:41:56  <TrueBrain> good luck Belugas! :)
13:42:02  <Wolf01> but a switch in the patches or difficulty gui might be usefull, like "vehicles prefer: [avoid stations|drive thru stations|don't bother]"
13:43:29  <Gonozal_VIII> isn't that what station penalty does?
13:43:49  <Wolf01> yes
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14:09:03  <Ammler> hmm, maybe I have the switch...
14:09:36  <Ammler> In difficult settings you can switch off industries
14:09:58  <Ammler> is there a reason to have them later to appear?
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14:12:33  <Gonozal_VIII> you have a point there
14:13:49  <Ammler> problem for diff settings is, they aren't changeable on a running game anymore, well over the scenario editor
14:15:02  <Phazorx> arent changeable?
14:15:41  <Gonozal_VIII> not all
14:15:51  <Gonozal_VIII> no of industries is not
14:16:07  <Phazorx> it has no affect on anything aside of generator
14:16:14  <Phazorx> there is not much point to change it
14:16:56  <Gonozal_VIII> it would have if it changes the generation of new industries in the running game
14:17:27  <Phazorx> last time i checked randomization of that wasnt based on any params
14:18:07  <Gonozal_VIII> ammler suggestet that
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14:18:27  <Gonozal_VIII> 9 minutes ago...
14:18:45  <Ammler> Phazorx: can you read back?
14:19:21  <Phazorx> i just reconnected i might not have it
14:19:33  <Ammler> I queried you why I like to change that
14:20:16  <Gonozal_VIII> would be better than setting the number of same industries per town to 0 because you could still place them manually
14:25:57  <LeviathNL> Would be nice to a preview of the the industry when placing them, especially because with grfs like ECSvectors it has become much harder.
14:27:04  <Gonozal_VIII> and a better way to find a suitable place... ever tried to place a brewery?
14:29:08  <Ammler> Gonozal_VIII: brewery is easy, try to place the tourist centers
14:29:10  <LeviathNL> Ever tried to place a Tourist Centre?
14:29:18  <Ammler> :)
14:30:00  <Ammler> I am trying to place GoodrichCastle (, not able too
14:30:22  <Ammler> (NeuSchwanenstein and Tourist Resort worked well.)
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14:31:57  <Gonozal_VIII> i didn't even know they existed... i only ever see the standard 2*2 tile thing
14:32:16  <Gonozal_VIII> 2*3
14:32:35  <Ammler> I guess, they won't appear with the map generater
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14:34:05  <LeviathNL> I once had the Casino resort
14:34:28  <Omnituens> can someone help me, im either doing something wrong, or theres a bug. anyone?
14:34:50  <LeviathNL> whats the problem?
14:35:54  <Omnituens> i was trying to upgrade all my trains to electric
14:35:58  <Omnituens> now i can do that fine
14:36:21  <Omnituens> BUT i cant upgrade from the basic electric automatically
14:36:29  <Omnituens> the others just dont appear on the replace list
14:36:48  <Omnituens> and its saying i have 65000 steam trains.
14:37:47  <Gonozal_VIII> try save and load
14:37:55  <LeviathNL> how do yuo mean you can't upgrade from the basic electric automatically
14:38:07  <Omnituens> with the manage train list
14:38:20  <Omnituens> replace <train> with <shiner train>
14:39:30  <Gonozal_VIII> i had the overflow thing once i think loading the game fixed that... as for electric there is a switch in the bottom middle where you can select rail vehicles or electrified
14:40:33  <Omnituens> is there? must have missed that
14:40:58  <Omnituens> i was thinking "im not the only person who has this bug, i must be missing something"
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14:43:11  <Omnituens> ok, and im getting 2 ini errors on startup, anyway to fix?
14:43:17  <Omnituens> something about trailing characters
14:43:29  <Gonozal_VIII> remove the trailing characters
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14:44:54  <Ammler> Omnituens: loading indicator and advanced vehicle gui?
14:45:01  <frosch123> pong Belugas
14:45:37  <Omnituens> i think so yes
14:45:38  <Ammler> just remove them from your cfg or change it in your patch settings window and exit
14:45:57  <Omnituens> ta
14:46:54  <Gonozal_VIII> sledgehammer method would be to remove the whole cfg file, the game will create a new one then
14:47:17  <Ammler> (they had changed from bool to int, thats why they give out error)
14:47:25  <Omnituens> hmmmm still not getting the replace trains thing to work
14:47:51  <Gonozal_VIII> wow plane crash on the start screen
14:48:02  <Omnituens> i can select the current one i have, but everything above the SH'30'(Electric) is not there
14:48:15  <Omnituens> when i say "above" i mean is developed after
14:48:30  <Gonozal_VIII> ah on the left?
14:48:40  <Omnituens> or the right
14:48:48  <Omnituens> my TIMs are not there either
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14:49:06  <Gonozal_VIII> on the left are only the vehicles you have... or had in grey
14:49:13  <SpComb> Logs: (old: )
14:49:13  <fjb> !logs
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14:50:33  <Omnituens> oh wait i loaded the wrong save game. do'h
14:50:56  <Gonozal_VIII> :-)
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14:54:32  <Omnituens> yes, i just speeded up the save game
14:54:40  <Omnituens> i can upgrade the trains now, thanks guys
15:03:29  <Gonozal_VIII> btw you should try a trainset grf, those are much more fun than the standard trains :-)
15:03:58  <Omnituens> well we are just starting to get into it
15:04:27  <Omnituens> we usually play it at lans. we only tweak the setting a bit, but we disable planes right off.
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15:05:52  <Gonozal_VIII> yes... they are not very balanced
15:07:37  <Omnituens> also, they it used to show all the positive income from last year in green, but it doesnt now
15:07:43  <Omnituens> like on the list of trains
15:09:38  <Gonozal_VIII> there are green circles below the vehicle number
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15:11:22  <Omnituens> yeah... but i liked the numbers too :P
15:11:46  <Gonozal_VIII> negative is still red
15:11:53  <Omnituens> yeah
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15:12:16  <Omnituens> just looking though the options now
15:12:42  <Omnituens> Manual primary industry construction method - prospecting? sounds like fun.
15:13:34  <Gonozal_VIII> places them random but also has a good chance to fail
15:14:43  <Omnituens> awww, i thought that the player might have to actually put some effort into locating mines and such
15:16:21  <Gonozal_VIII> you have to with some types of tourist centers in ecs
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15:57:19  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r11368 /trunk/src/lang/ (8 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
15:57:19  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-11-01 16:56:10
15:57:19  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: afrikaans - 9 fixed, 1 changed by TrueTenacity (10)
15:57:19  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 1 fixed by fukumori (1)
15:57:19  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 1 fixed by arnaullv (1)
15:57:20  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 1 fixed by knovak (1)
15:57:22  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 1 fixed by glx (1)
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16:19:13  <Teknikarna|Mell> !password
16:21:58  <Phazorx> TrueBrain: the heightmaps you made, are they based on forum method?
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16:32:05  <MiHaMiX> Phazorx: afaik no
16:32:31  <Phazorx> MiHaMiX: is there a better/easier way ?
16:32:40  <Phazorx> i'm fighting with microdem and i'm not liking it
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16:32:45  <MiHaMiX> Phazorx: yes, but it's under dev
16:32:48  <glx> he uses a homemade tool
16:33:02  <Phazorx> MiHaMiX: ottd is under dev too :)
16:33:43  <MiHaMiX> Phazorx: yes, but it's different
16:34:02  <MiHaMiX> Phazorx: ottd is playable and somewhat user friendly, while that tool is command line only atm
16:34:15  <Phazorx> i dont have issues with cli tools
16:35:01  <Phazorx> considerign that instead of suing goole earth i have perl script running with wget to get the map parts :)
16:35:19  <MiHaMiX> Phazorx: no prob, but as far as TrueBrain doesn't release that tool, the tool is not available for anyone except for the devs
16:35:37  <Phazorx> well i'll wait for TB then
16:36:33  <MiHaMiX> ok ;)
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16:42:53  <skidd13> Hi
16:51:27  <LeviathNL> hi, how is the mersenne twister configuration patch going?
17:03:06  <TrueBrain> Phazorx: it has bugs which I couldn't resolve back then, so the project is put on halt
17:03:21  <Phazorx> TrueBrain: alternatives?
17:03:34  <TrueBrain> nope
17:03:38  <Phazorx> sad
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17:04:21  <TrueBrain> to give a more descriptive reply on the 'bug' part: it could generate one country just fine, most of the time anyway. It only failed when trying to do bigger things, like Europe
17:04:43  <Phazorx> and since i want really big there will be issues
17:04:49  <Phazorx> microdem doesnt work ehre
17:04:54  <Phazorx> apparently it has bugs too
17:05:07  <TrueBrain> correcting for the earth rounding is pretty though :)
17:05:17  <TrueBrain> that is, in a fast way ;)
17:05:38  <Phazorx> it's a math problem, not simple one but purely mathematical
17:06:58  <Phazorx> i take it your tool is capable of performing image manipulations
17:07:06  <LeviathNL> skidd13, is there an easy way to try the mersenne twister? Defining it in functions.h gives me compile-errors
17:08:16  *** Farden [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:08:17  <skidd13> LeviathNL: edit the CFLAGS in the makefile (append -DMERSENNE_TWISTER or something like that)
17:08:17  <skidd13> TrueBrain: checked my current work on the patch?
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17:08:35  <TrueBrain> nope
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17:08:56  <huma> tb!
17:09:16  <skidd13> I'm thinking over a nice solution for the savegame stuff cause my current solution is too dynamic for the static savegame stuff. :D
17:09:28  <huma> how's your pyttd? :)
17:09:37  <Phazorx> TrueBrain: i can suggest an aproach to make the map nicer in some ways but less realistic however, meaning none linear scaling
17:10:07  <TrueBrain> huma: flying busses all over the place :)
17:10:16  <huma> url?
17:10:28  <TrueBrain> I have a bandwidth issue, it is hard to move a bus every 30ms, as the client is slower in the communication
17:10:37  <TrueBrain> so it needs client-side logic, which is hard, as you have acceleration and shit
17:10:38  <huma> eh
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17:11:45  <huma> guess we'll have to wait till web 3.0 :)
17:11:54  <TrueBrain> this problem is much more general
17:12:01  <TrueBrain> even if I would make a custom client
17:12:03  <TrueBrain> it would have this problem
17:12:12  <TrueBrain> as it is impossible to feed a client every 30ms with position of all objects
17:12:20  <TrueBrain> it is normal that the client does logic
17:12:29  <TrueBrain> just TTD logic is too advanced to do :)
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17:15:22  <skidd13> Can someone of the dev's check FS1199? Thanks
17:15:48  <skidd13> :%s /'//g
17:17:03  <TrueBrain> + * @author Magicbuzz, Skidd13 <- OpenTTD is GPL, all code and patches sent in are owned by OpenTTD Developer Team
17:17:13  <TrueBrain> we can not accept any patch which claims to have any other author but OpenTTD Developer Team
17:17:26  <TrueBrain> so, sadly enough, we have to reject the patch, or you have to give permission to remove that line.
17:18:00  <TrueBrain> (just imagine what will happen if every person would set the @author on every function in the code... omg... :s)
17:18:19  <skidd13> TrueBrain: I thought it claims the responsibility :) AKA who to blame if there are problems ;)
17:18:29  <TrueBrain> we have 'svn blame' for that
17:18:44  <glx> and svn log to know the patch author
17:18:50  <TrueBrain> besides, those people are never found back when there really is a problem :) They tend to disapear!
17:19:11  <TrueBrain> "The speec value" <- nice typo :)
17:19:19  <skidd13> Ooops
17:19:27  <TrueBrain> also, in that same function, one enter too many (after if () {)
17:19:39  <TrueBrain> and double 'from'
17:19:45  <TrueBrain> and why is 'from the internals' on an other line? :)
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17:20:38  <Ammler> hmm, I played a little bit with placing industries, how do I place a Bank?
17:21:04  <skidd13> TrueBrain: Anything else?
17:21:16  <Ammler> i tried to place it in town with 2300 habitants, but still the msg appears that I need 1200
17:21:23  <TrueBrain> skidd13: not at first glance
17:21:35  <skidd13> Ok, things are fixed.
17:21:53  <glx> Ammler: on a house?
17:22:11  <Ammler> I removed 2 tiles and bought the land
17:22:37  <glx> banks must be built over house
17:22:38  <Gonozal_VIII> i just tried placing a bank in a 2500 town, no problem
17:22:53  <Gonozal_VIII> on empty ground, no houses
17:23:16  <Ammler> needs 2 tiles?
17:23:31  <LeviathNL> Can't get the mersenne twister to work, I ran make "CFLAGS= -DMERSENNE_TWISTER" (is this what you meant?) but it still gave me errors
17:23:34  <Rubidium> then again... is any of you using a newindustries newgrf?
17:23:36  <Gonozal_VIII> yes 2*1
17:23:44  <Gonozal_VIII> ecs
17:23:54  <Ammler> me none
17:24:06  <glx> LeviathNL: make MERSENNE_TWISTER:=1
17:24:07  <Gonozal_VIII> but bank looks the same
17:24:25  <Rubidium> that doesn't say a thing
17:24:26  <TrueBrain> glx: that is for 0.5 maybe ;)
17:24:42  <glx> should work in trunk too :)
17:25:11  <TrueBrain> you might be right ;)
17:25:45  <skidd13> LeviathNL: <- this patch modifys the configure. Then you are able to enable it by configure
17:25:59  <Gonozal_VIII> building must be demolished first when i try on houses
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17:26:19  <Ammler> after I had the problem, I made "svn revert . -R" and "svn up" now I tried with r11367, I can place all other default industries, but no bank...
17:26:59  <TrueBrain> "ecalculated from from the" <- almost skidd13 ;)
17:27:25  <skidd13> Damn
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17:28:55  <skidd13> Updated
17:30:18  <TrueBrain> finally ;)
17:30:18  <TrueBrain> hehe
17:31:14  <skidd13> Has been a long day working with CAD. This shakes your brain really down.
17:32:15  <TrueBrain> hehe :)
17:34:02  <Ammler> Gonozal_VIII: could you try building a bank on a smaller town?
17:34:24  <Gonozal_VIII> i did, not possible under 1200 people
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17:37:52  *** Alkaven` is now known as Galamantyl`
17:37:55  <Galamantyl`> Hey
17:39:24  <LeviathNL> interesting to compare 2 maps with the same seed with & without mersenne
17:39:53  <Galamantyl`> I'm just about done a hard-settings map and everybody quit on me.  :(
17:40:52  <Rubidium> Galamantyl`: don't be bothered by them. After a while your server will be a known hard server and more people interested in such a game will join.
17:41:42  <Galamantyl`> I doubt it.  A lot of people did join at first, but wanted special settings turned on to make it easier for them.
17:41:46  <skidd13> LeviathNL: Comparing the city growth is more interesting ;)
17:41:54  * fjb doesn't like it too easy.
17:41:56  <Galamantyl`> Like the Realistic Train Accelleration.  I'm told that makes trains climb hills faster.
17:42:09  <Galamantyl`> Which defeats the point of RVs almost.
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17:43:08  <Galamantyl`> They wanted flatter land and less water so they can build stuff at a lower cost.  That makes airplanes the main advantage.
17:43:53  <Rubidium> how's the server called by the way?
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17:44:23  <Galamantyl`> -[EN/CAN]-Hard-Arctic-Competitive
17:44:25  <Galamantyl`> Oh yes
17:44:30  <Galamantyl`> They also didn't like it being arctic
17:44:31  <fjb> Most people seam to prefer flat land. But where is the fun when I get rich after two years and can build anything I want? It gets really boring then.
17:44:33  <Galamantyl`> They wanted temperate
17:44:43  <Galamantyl`> Exactly!
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17:45:25  <Galamantyl`> 80% of the people who joined went out of business because they a) built train routes that were not cost-effective and b) built really long connections they couldn't maintain
17:45:35  <Galamantyl`> They wanted disasters off, break-downs reduced, ect.,
17:45:46  <Galamantyl`> But I managed to stay in
17:45:58  <Galamantyl`> Although, the #1 complaint was the pace
17:46:21  <Galamantyl`> Because the starting loan was 0,000, the income generated from any route was slow.
17:46:40  <Galamantyl`> Actually, it wasn't just me
17:46:43  <Galamantyl`> Two people made it
17:47:00  <Galamantyl`> Sorry... Three
17:47:23  *** BJH2 [] has joined #openttd
17:47:23  <Galamantyl`> There used to be four... Started by a guy named "Fluffy"
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17:47:39  <Galamantyl`> Oh yes, people complained the map was too small too
17:47:56  <Galamantyl`> Because I wanted to spark a bit of competition in there.
17:48:33  <Rubidium> there will always be a lot of people complaining when the map is "hard"
17:48:34  <Galamantyl`> So I turn Realistic Train Accelleration on, Disasters off, and set the map to flatlands...
17:48:48  <Galamantyl`> That means no more RVs
17:48:50  <Galamantyl`> No more boats
17:48:56  <Galamantyl`> Trains
17:49:03  <Galamantyl`> Whole thing: Trains
17:49:06  <Noldo> some people are simply in love with trains
17:49:19  <Galamantyl`> I am too.  But that's the idea behind a hard game
17:49:25  <Rubidium> and it's better to play with two or three people on a server that you like yourself than making your server such that there will be 8 people playing and you don't like to play it anymore
17:49:35  <Gonozal_VIII> turn weight multiplier for freight up
17:50:48  <Galamantyl`> I'm happy with the default game mechanics.  If I'm dealing with transportation up and down a mountain, I'll go RV.  If I'm dealing with long-ranged transportation on the same terrain, I'll go train.
17:50:50  <Galamantyl`> It's strategic
17:51:46  <Gonozal_VIII> ships are fastest uphill^^
17:52:16  <Galamantyl`> A ship will go uphill faster than an RV?
17:52:28  <Gonozal_VIII> depends on settings
17:52:35  <Galamantyl`> See!  That's what I'm talking about
17:52:37  <Gonozal_VIII> but ships don't slow down
17:52:40  <Phazorx> how hard would it be to section trees, vegitation, height and obstacles into different section in the save file?
17:52:59  <Phazorx> different sections i mean, one for each
17:53:02  <Rubidium> Galamantyl`: a ship going up a lock does not stop, so it keeps it's speed
17:53:21  <Rubidium> using a hovercraft going 100 (or so) km/h it's probably faster than a RV
17:53:37  <Galamantyl`> Hovercraft costs more to maintain
17:54:03  <Gonozal_VIII> with more capacity
17:54:32  <Galamantyl`> With a higher initial cost
17:54:56  *** egladil [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:55:45  <LeviathNL> skidd13, how did you compare citygrowth? I'm runnin a game with and one without the mersenne with the same savegame now.
17:55:47  <fjb> Who cares about the initial cost? It has more cpacity and is much faster.
17:56:19  <Galamantyl`> Hovercraft can only carry 100 passengers.
17:57:45  <Galamantyl`> Bakewell 300 hovercraft (100 passengers : 248k / year : 112kmph) verses Foster Mk2 Bus (40 passengers : 89k / year : 127 kmph)
17:57:50  <fjb> A bus only 40.
17:58:08  <Galamantyl`> Foster Mk2 Bus also costs only 90k / year
17:58:32  <Galamantyl`> The cost / year is meant to be relative since it's the current rate in my game
17:58:36  <Rubidium> bus will go much slower uphill (IIRC)
17:59:56  <fjb> A bus going uphill is < 40km/h
17:59:57  <Phazorx> Rubidium: that bring me to a Q - why ships do go diagonal
18:00:14  <Phazorx> do not
18:00:32  <Gonozal_VIII> they do
18:00:35  <Galamantyl`> That's a pretty acceptable delay considering how high terrain can go
18:01:04  <fjb> Galamantyl`: But a hovercraft goes with 100km/h uphill.
18:01:33  *** Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AWAY
18:01:37  <Galamantyl`> That's fine.  The cost per year is still huge compared to a bus
18:01:47  *** yorick [] has quit [Quit:  bye!]
18:02:40  <fjb> But passenger pay a lot more when they arrive earlier.
18:03:00  <Galamantyl`> Depends on the time travelled
18:03:05  <Gonozal_VIII> payment rate is higher for faster delivery.... would have to test it ingame to know for sure which one is better
18:03:23  <Galamantyl`> Hovercrafts also take a while to appear
18:03:27  <Galamantyl`> if starting from 1950
18:03:41  <Galamantyl`> Plus, remember, we're talking passengers only here
18:03:52  <Galamantyl`> if it was an industry, I'd be using RVs still
18:04:39  <Galamantyl`> I like trains.  I never said I didn't, In fact, I'm even using trains, and my company is called: "Wheel n' Go".  And yes, I know trains have wheels, but when you hear: Wheel, you probably think 'car'
18:04:46  <skidd13> LeviathNL: The on a similar way as you compare the terra gen. I seed a game with and with out. And plant a city on the same spot. And compare the original town growth algorithm.
18:04:49  <Gonozal_VIII> use a train and go around the hill or through a tunnel ;-)
18:05:12  <Galamantyl`> What if the industry is at the top of the hill, and the destination is at the bottom of the hill?
18:05:19  <Galamantyl`> And what if you only have 0,000 to yer name?
18:05:25  <skidd13> LeviathNL: In the scenario editor of cause ;)
18:05:57  <Gonozal_VIII> empty vehicles usually don't have problems with slopes
18:06:11  <Galamantyl`> Okay, the destination is uphill
18:06:30  <Gonozal_VIII> serpentines
18:06:37  <Galamantyl`> ?
18:06:58  <Gonozal_VIII> maybe that's not a correct english word sorry..
18:07:09  <Galamantyl`> This is why people want realistic train accelleration on, and then nobody needs to use RVs
18:08:14  <Gonozal_VIII> realistic acceleration doesn't let trains climb long slopes better, they only don't slow down that much on a single sloped tile
18:08:57  <Galamantyl`> How long is a tile?  5 km?
18:09:21  <Gonozal_VIII> 2km iirc
18:09:35  <Gonozal_VIII> and 50m height difference
18:09:35  <Galamantyl`> So a train going at 80 kmph will cross 40 tiles in a second?
18:10:04  <Galamantyl`> The answer... To that question... is no
18:10:25  <Galamantyl`> But let's say it's 2 km anyway
18:10:44  <Galamantyl`> You're telling me that a train will not slow down at all during that 1st kilometer?
18:10:53  <Galamantyl`> It uses the laws of motion to glide it's way up the whole 2km?
18:10:59  <Gonozal_VIII> it will but not that much
18:11:08  <Galamantyl`> That's not realistic
18:11:11  <Galamantyl`> Why is it called realistic?
18:11:24  <Gonozal_VIII> distances and times in the game are not realistic at all
18:11:31  <Galamantyl`> Ding ding ding!
18:11:35  <Galamantyl`> That's right.
18:11:41  <Galamantyl`> So why should I turn on a setting that does something like that?
18:11:48  <Gonozal_VIII> but it looks somewhat more realistic
18:12:08  <LeviathNL> 80kmph = ! 80kmps
18:12:10  <Galamantyl`> I need to get myself a train set...
18:12:23  <Galamantyl`> Scaled down really small
18:12:48  <Galamantyl`> And see if it will keep it's speed after 5 scaled-down kilomters
18:12:52  <Galamantyl`> sorry, 2
18:13:15  <Galamantyl`> In the default settings, the train doesn't slow down immediately.  But it does slow down before it crosses the first tile
18:13:29  <Gonozal_VIII> 50m height difference on 2km distance won't slow down a train in rl
18:13:39  <Galamantyl`> it's 2 kilometers...
18:14:23  <Galamantyl`> And I don't even think the tile is 2km.  I have never seen a train going at 80 kmph cross 40 tiles in a second.
18:14:43  <Gonozal_VIII> [19:12:08] LeviathNL: 80kmph = ! 80kmps
18:14:51  <Galamantyl`> Oh
18:14:52  <Galamantyl`> Sorry
18:14:54  <Galamantyl`> My bad
18:14:55  <Galamantyl`> blah
18:15:05  <Galamantyl`> Alright, 2km sounds right
18:15:17  <Galamantyl`> I still don't think it should be on.
18:15:25  <Galamantyl`> It defeats the point of RVs still.
18:16:02  <Gonozal_VIII> you could use a trainnset that doesn't have so fast trains
18:16:03  <Galamantyl`> The train is possibly the 2nd most-efficient way of making money in the game.  There's a reason it has it's flaws.  :P
18:16:06  *** XeryusTC [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:16:07  <fjb> Having it on doesn't render road vehicles useless. At least not when you know what you are doing.
18:16:48  <LeviathNL> they use 12,5 >m< as tile length for 32bpp development
18:17:00  <Gonozal_VIII> rvs have no chance against the maglevs but against dbset trains with low side wagons that are restricted to 80 km/h
18:17:46  <Galamantyl`> By the time maglevs come around, you'd have to be pretty ruthless to destroy your bus stations and replace em in the middle of the cities.
18:17:50  <LeviathNL> I never understood why they use 50 meter as height difference per tile
18:18:13  <Galamantyl`> 50 is a nice round number
18:18:29  <Galamantyl`> It's got a prime number digit and a non-divisible number digit
18:18:35  <Galamantyl`> Who wouldn't love that combination?
18:18:36  <LeviathNL> 10 also
18:18:40  <fjb> The fast cargo trains in the original game are unrealistic, but not setting realistic acceleration doesn't change that fact.
18:18:57  <Galamantyl`> 10 binary or 10 decimal?
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18:19:53  <LeviathNL> hex ;)
18:20:17  <fjb> And the road vehicles in the original game are not very realistic either. There are bigger busses since years.
18:20:42  <Galamantyl`> I'll admit, the passenger RVs are pretty stupid
18:20:53  <Galamantyl`> I swear I've seen a bus here cram more than 40 people into it
18:20:55  <fjb> 2037 and the biggest bus has 40 passengers? That is silly.
18:21:13  <Gonozal_VIII> trams :-)
18:21:47  <fjb> We were over 100 people in the bus every morning when I went to scholl in the 80s of the last century.
18:21:48  <Galamantyl`> Technically train carts should carry more, and boats even more so, but they don't
18:21:58  <Galamantyl`> So as far as passengers go, it's pretty silly all around
18:22:34  <Galamantyl`> They don't even account for dining cars for trains
18:22:36  <Galamantyl`> Isn't that just stupid?
18:22:38  <Gonozal_VIII> in my games i use dbsetxl, long vehicles v4, new ships with capacity multiplier and av8
18:22:46  <Galamantyl`> That should boost station rating by 10%
18:23:41  <Galamantyl`> Doesn't wastelands create flat-terrain for desert regardless of settings?
18:23:54  <Gonozal_VIII> don't start with station rating... the calculation of that is so wrong..
18:24:18  <fjb> The capacity multiplier gave me some trouble when I trieds it. But the vehicle sets make it far more realistic and fun.
18:24:26  <Galamantyl`> I wasn't getting into station rating calculations.  I was just suggesting that this game is flawed because it doesn't have dining cars for trains
18:24:32  <Galamantyl`> I think that was a perfectly acceptable argument
18:24:39  <Gonozal_VIII> dbset has dining cars
18:24:48  <Galamantyl`> What do they do?
18:24:57  <Galamantyl`> Don't tell me they transport food
18:25:01  <Gonozal_VIII> have some different pixels^^
18:25:14  <Galamantyl`> What do they hold?
18:25:18  <Gonozal_VIII> passengers
18:25:29  <Galamantyl`> Passengers sit in dining cars?
18:25:35  <Galamantyl`> That doesn't make sense at all!
18:25:40  <fjb> Where else should they sit?
18:26:02  <fjb> I have seen people sitting in dining cars.
18:26:03  <Galamantyl`> You're not supposed to "ride" in a dining car.  you're supposed to eat there.
18:26:08  <Galamantyl`> Sometimes they have music playing too
18:26:11  <Galamantyl`> And TV
18:26:50  <Galamantyl`> If each tile is 2km...
18:27:05  <Galamantyl`> Why do vehicles occupy 1/2 the tile?
18:27:28  <fjb> That's why the road vehicle set is called long vehicles.
18:27:44  <Galamantyl`> Train stations take up at least 3 squares on average...
18:28:00  <Galamantyl`> Are you telling me train stations are 2x6 km?
18:28:07  <Galamantyl`> That's pretty big...
18:28:13  <fjb> Only 3 squares? How short are that trains?
18:28:18  <Galamantyl`> I think our provincial airport is that big
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18:28:34  <Galamantyl`> Okay... So... 2x10 tiles then
18:28:56  <Galamantyl`> You're saying train stations occupy 20 square km?
18:29:11  <Galamantyl`> That's huge... That doesn't even make sense.
18:29:33  <fjb> Galamantyl`: Go to google maps (or any other service thar shows aerial photos) and look how big train stations are in real.
18:29:44  <Galamantyl`> they can't possibly be 20 square km
18:30:00  <Gono_ping_timeout> yes and a soccer field is 4km from goal to goal... you can't compare game scales to rl
18:30:08  <Galamantyl`> Sorry, larger than that
18:30:15  <Galamantyl`> 4km x 20km is ...
18:30:16  <fjb> Galamantyl`: Maybe TTD is just the wrong game for you.
18:30:22  <Galamantyl`> a big number
18:30:34  <TrueBrain> hmm, I thought I was in #openttd
18:30:39  <TrueBrain> but clearly I am in #fantasy_land
18:30:41  <TrueBrain> doh
18:30:44  <Galamantyl`> What?
18:30:48  <Galamantyl`> ???
18:30:52  <Galamantyl`> No, this is #openttd
18:31:02  <glx> there are many scales in TTD
18:31:02  <TrueBrain> hmm, then why are people talking about things need to be in-scale...
18:31:04  <TrueBrain> weird
18:31:16  <Galamantyl`> I wasn't saying it had to be
18:31:18  <Galamantyl`> I was just... wondering
18:31:26  <Galamantyl`> It's a fair question
18:31:27  <fjb> What is the singular of people?
18:31:30  <TrueBrain> so you also want that a train-ride goes with 80 km/h
18:31:34  <TrueBrain> so.. that is like... instantly
18:31:39  <Galamantyl`> No no...
18:31:42  <Galamantyl`> 80 kmps
18:31:59  <TrueBrain> Galamantyl`: no, it is a stupid question. IF you want realism, walk outside. If you want a game, download OpenTTD
18:32:12  <Galamantyl`> I want a challenging game
18:32:36  <TrueBrain> 80 km/h = 2000 km/d, is 200 tiles a day... wow... talking about not-realistic....
18:32:44  <TrueBrain> so, a game can't be challenging if the scales don't add up?
18:32:51  <Galamantyl`> No
18:32:51  <TrueBrain> I guess you won't be playing any game any time soon
18:33:02  <fjb> Btw, dividing the world into squares is not realistic either.
18:33:04  <Galamantyl`> But I don't see how "Realistic" train accelleration makes a game more challenging
18:33:06  <TrueBrain> as said, I must have mistaken this channel for #fantasy_land
18:34:05  * fjb knows, why everybody leaves Galamantyl`s game.
18:34:08  <TrueBrain> simple: it is more realistic :)
18:34:17  <Galamantyl`> Now you're just being hostile
18:34:23  <Galamantyl`> When I haven't offended anyone
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18:34:53  <fjb> I have never seen a train loose half of his speed while going up a ramp to a bridge...
18:35:20  <TrueBrain> Galamantyl`: the whole game is scaled, but not scaled towards other objects
18:35:27  <TrueBrain> trains have a certain length-per-tile indicator
18:35:30  <TrueBrain> the speed matches that
18:35:37  <TrueBrain> the old acceleration is just plain weird
18:36:10  <TrueBrain> so, 'realistic' acceleration, which is, for your information, just a name, but named that, because it is based on pure physics, fixes that
18:36:19  <TrueBrain> in their little scaled world, they accelerate realistic
18:36:29  <TrueBrain> keeping in mind weight, power, and track
18:36:42  <TrueBrain> and yes, for each individual it might or might not be more challenging
18:36:47  <TrueBrain> but for sure, it is more realistic
18:37:23  *** Gono_ping_timeout is now known as Gonozal_VIII
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18:38:06  <TrueBrain> fjb: btw, it depends on the type of bridge :p
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18:39:51  <Phazorx> hmm TrueBrain i have a method suggested from here for fixing std -> ni map convertion after adding GRFs with NI support
18:40:25  <Phazorx> which is replacing last section reponsible for cargo prices by one that has them all
18:40:30  <TrueBrain> Phazorx: you know, I have no idea what you just said
18:40:39  <Phazorx> somehow that works for PBI it doesnt work for NC
18:40:59  <fjb> TrueBrain: usual bridges. :-P
18:41:10  <Phazorx> TrueBrain: i mean missing prices for "new" cargo types
18:41:12  <Gonozal_VIII> ni is something that knights like to say
18:41:17  <TrueBrain> Phazorx: nope... still no idea
18:41:26  <TrueBrain> we are the knights that say: NI!
18:41:33  <glx> ni!
18:41:39  <hylje> this is becoming very silly
18:41:40  <Phazorx> say i have an scn with nice landscape i like, i want to add new industry grf into it
18:41:56  <TrueBrain> Phazorx: newgrf.. hmm.. so why are you talking to me again? :)
18:41:56  <Phazorx> and then seed it with industries in some way
18:42:10  <Phazorx> because this is relevant to saveload rather than grf
18:42:16  <Phazorx> lemme finish
18:42:23  <Galamantyl`> Is there realistic RV accelleration?
18:42:28  <glx> not yet
18:42:29  <TrueBrain> feel free, but you might want to try an other developer ;)
18:43:02  <Phazorx> so i open that scn to play and i see in cargo price graph and see that new pbi cargoes have blank prices
18:43:09  <Phazorx> same goes for ECS or NC cargo typers
18:43:15  <Phazorx> they all are free
18:43:23  <Phazorx> there is a hack for that
18:43:37  <Phazorx> which is replacing last section of the save
18:43:59  <Phazorx> with one that does have prices (from anther save that has been started with corect GRFs in 1st place)
18:44:09  <Gonozal_VIII> what do you mean by cargo price?
18:44:16  <Phazorx> that DOES work for PBI and PBI+BC just fine
18:44:42  <Phazorx> and it doea not work for NC somehow - prices are 0 and if i resave paused map and compare - i see that my changes are reverted
18:45:11  <Phazorx> Gonozal_VIII: there is a graph which reflects ratio betweenc argo delivery time and resulting income per unit
18:45:26  <Gonozal_VIII> ah payment rates
18:46:00  <Phazorx> TrueBrain (or any other developer who has a clue in the area) - any idea why ot fails like that ?
18:46:01  <Gonozal_VIII> ecs cargos have that
18:46:39  <Gonozal_VIII> wow i have to transport more vehicles
18:47:15  <Phazorx> Gonozal_VIII: not if you add a grf to existing game/scn
18:47:33  <Belugas> Ammler:
18:47:34  <Belugas> [10:11] <Ammler> In difficult settings you can switch off industries
18:47:34  <Belugas> [10:12] <Ammler> is there a reason to have them later to appear?
18:47:43  <Belugas> that' sonly valid during creation
18:47:47  <Belugas> not during gameplay
18:48:03  <Belugas> on gameplay, industries are entitled to be creted
18:48:07  <Phazorx> Belugas: it would be ncie if it would be valid during gameplay
18:48:10  <Eddi|zuHause> so what you actually need is, if you load a new newgrf, regenerate the cargo payment rates
18:48:18  <Gonozal_VIII> that works without breaking the game? we started a new one when newcargo support came out
18:48:27  <Eddi|zuHause> this has not really a lot to do with saveload
18:48:27  <Ammler>
18:48:41  <Belugas> Phazorx, i don't think so and i'm not even considering it
18:49:28  <Phazorx> Belugas: i dont really see how that can harm anything and it would be ncie to have that option - if a game meant to have only available industries why not use existing option to control it
18:49:41  <Ammler> now I know how to play with this patch settings... :)
18:49:46  <Phazorx> Belugas: reason is with some of PBI feratures placement of station and industries become crucial
18:50:12  <Phazorx> and random spawning industries break a lot of existing network backbone if you are unlucky
18:50:33  <Belugas> your opinion is noted, thanks
18:50:51  <LeviathNL> Phazorx, I think you can make a grf to disable industries
18:51:09  <Phazorx> LeviathNL: disable random placement of them ?
18:51:37  <Ammler> hmm, possible, but more havy then my patch, I fear...
18:51:53  <Phazorx> Belugas: problem is that random placement part is not aware of limitations that are build into the NI part of grf, so by ignoring it it creates issues that were not forseen before NI came out
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18:52:30  <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause: the question is deeper than that i'm affraid, i am not adding anythign to that save game at play time, i only load it or start a scenario with all grfs already there
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18:52:54  <Phazorx> issue is that map was generated before NI grf was included, so it lacks the cargo types and prices
18:53:09  <Phazorx> which is fixed by manually replacing section of the save file
18:53:17  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i remember ;)
18:53:27  <Phazorx> and it does work for some cases and does not for other - NC behavior is quite weird
18:53:46  <Belugas> Phazorx, if you want to disable random in game appearance, you can, using action 00, prop 18 for industries
18:54:09  <Belugas> and enjoy your vision of the game ;)
18:54:41  <Phazorx> Belugas: i was suggesting using existing option to control it, for other users, we do have a solution already but it is rather hacky instead of proper patch in trunk
18:55:09  <Ammler> Phazorx: hmm, not sure, if you could take that
18:55:22  <Phazorx> take what ?
18:55:32  <Ammler> maybe you like to generate a blank map, but then industries should appear
18:55:36  <Eddi|zuHause> Phazorx: another "clean" alternative would be a mode of the scenario editor, that just loads the landscape (and possibly towns) from a sav/scn, then applies all settings like normal map generation
18:55:54  <Belugas> Phazorx, no.  simply as that.  Your opinion is noted.  And pleeeeeaase... stop arguing
18:55:56  <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause: apply how ?
18:56:08  <Eddi|zuHause> apply as in run the code ;)
18:56:29  <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause: i presume there is a button for that somewhere already and i just happen to miss it ? :)
18:56:43  <Eddi|zuHause> Phazorx: no, it will have to be coded
18:57:11  <Phazorx> Belugas: i was emrely trying to deliver my point exactly, i'm not insisting on you actualy doing it so, but i felt compelled to provide proper reasoning to be heard
18:57:16  <Eddi|zuHause> just follow the program trail what happens on new game, and replace map generation and town generation step with loading from savegame
18:57:37  <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause: very hackish as usual...
18:57:54  <Phazorx> and that most likely would work... hwoever question was why loading the map overwrites part of a save
18:59:12  <Eddi|zuHause> what's a "hack" and what's not is not about the way you do it, but about the amount of time you spend making it maintainable
18:59:48  <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause: i guess that's right but still does not address that i am trying to point out
19:00:14  <Belugas> Phazorx, i understand your point of view, it has been noted.  Don't worry.  But i still think that it must not be done.  It will, for starter, prohibit newgrf to work as exected.  That is out of question.  Second, there are already so many stupid questions raised by users who do not know what they are doing  to add something that will yet add another ste of confuision.  Plus, remember that indyustries do close after a while.  So, you'll need to stop closing
19:00:19  <Eddi|zuHause> what you are trying to point out is a "that was never intended to work correctly"
19:00:57  <Belugas> otherwise, thje map will be empty of industries pretty fast...
19:01:12  <Eddi|zuHause> we should stop having two different discussions at the same time :)
19:01:32  <Belugas> Phazorx: therefor, my position remains : no.  But thanks for raising the subject, once more
19:02:29  <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause: i'm having more than 2 but they are different enough and i put a name in the sentance to address it:)
19:02:31  <Gonozal_VIII> when number of industries in difficulty settings is set to none there could be also no random spawning industries
19:02:41  <Gonozal_VIII> :-)
19:02:55  <Phazorx> Gonozal_VIII: close to what i was suggestiong - it should be option controleld and not a default behavior
19:04:39  <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause: yet again, i can see replacing of data chunk in a save file to fail, to a point of not being able to load the game. However, changing content of the save file ONLOAD is somethign that i did not expect at all
19:04:51  <Gonozal_VIII> when i start a game with none i either want to place them manually or play passenger only... each way random appearing is not wanted
19:08:58  *** LordAzamath [] has joined #openttd
19:12:04  <Ammler> Gonozal_VIII: there is a time, you should accept the judgement and go forward... (use my patch in the meantime...)
19:13:15  *** LordAzamath [] has quit []
19:13:17  <Gonozal_VIII> i'm austrian, we tend to accept things but talk a lot about changing them anyways
19:13:51  <Ammler> me too, thats why I made the patch :P
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19:49:25  <yorick> anyone seen dihedral today?
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19:54:51  <Galamantyl`> 1 billion dollars
19:54:53  <Galamantyl`> mwahaha
19:55:38  <Gonozal_VIII> profit last year?
19:56:08  *** |Jeroen| [] has joined #openttd
19:56:35  <Galamantyl`> I can't spend it fast enough
19:56:45  <Galamantyl`> 26 mil
19:57:19  <Galamantyl`> It's a fairly small map according to most people who joined.
19:58:01  <Galamantyl`> Does the desert tileset create flatland on desert terrain?
19:58:10  <Galamantyl`> regardless of map settings?
19:58:48  * Prof_Frink throws Mountain Transport at Galamantyl`
19:59:39  <Galamantyl`> I'm just wondering is all
19:59:40  <Prof_Frink> Annual profit? I'm not sure, it overflows TTDPatch's calculation on Jan 1
20:00:05  <Prof_Frink> Galamantyl`: Yes, Desert is always part flat desert, part hilly rainforest
20:00:32  <Galamantyl`> That sounds like a very frustrating type of game
20:00:34  <Prof_Frink> Unless $openttd_dev changed that.
20:01:22  <Gonozal_VIII> you need more expensive vehicles... it's 2 million euro for a single ice3 train
20:03:11  <yorick> did anybody see dihedral today?
20:03:16  * fjb has realistic acceleration on and makes most mony with road vehicles. :-)
20:03:49  <fjb> !seen dihedral
20:03:49  <_42_> fjb, dihedral ( was last seen quitting #openttdcoop 10 hours 4 minutes ago (01.11. 09:58) stating "Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox]" after spending 1 hour 59 minutes there.
20:04:08  <TrueBrain> and if you don't believe that bot:
20:04:10  <TrueBrain> @openttd dihedral
20:04:15  <TrueBrain> @seen dihedral
20:04:15  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: dihedral was last seen in #openttd 10 hours, 8 minutes, and 25 seconds ago: <dihedral> hi
20:04:15  <TrueBrain> lol
20:04:42  <yorick> ok
20:05:14  <yorick> wanted to congrat him with his openttdcoop membership
20:05:15  * Prof_Frink wonders if there's a command that will send the bots into an infinite loop
20:05:20  <Gonozal_VIII> road vehicles could use a better pathfinder for multi bay stations, somehow that only works good at short distances
20:05:31  <yorick> @seen DorpsGek
20:05:31  <DorpsGek> yorick: I have not seen DorpsGek.
20:05:48  <yorick> !seen _42_
20:05:49  <_42_> yorick, if you can't see _42_ here right now, you probably need new glasses. ^_^
20:06:16  <TrueBrain> Prof_Frink: now you mention it, I do have my doubt about the following command:
20:06:20  <TrueBrain> @kick Prof_Frink infinite loop?
20:06:20  *** Prof_Frink was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [infinite loop?]
20:06:20  * yorick wonders too
20:06:23  <TrueBrain> hmm, guess not...
20:06:28  *** Prof_Frink [] has joined #openttd
20:06:34  <Prof_Frink> Oi.
20:06:46  <TrueBrain> sorry, Prof_Frink, clearly I was wrong :)
20:06:46  * Prof_Frink should have seen that coming
20:06:56  <yorick> @help
20:06:56  <DorpsGek> yorick: help [<plugin>] [<command>]
20:06:57  <TrueBrain> yup!
20:07:01  <yorick> @help kick
20:07:02  <DorpsGek> yorick: (kick [<channel>] <nick> [<reason>]) -- Kicks <nick> from <channel> for <reason>. If <reason> isn't given, uses the nick of the person making the command as the reason. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent in the channel itself.
20:07:07  <TrueBrain> yorick: take this to a PM with DorpsGek
20:07:35  <yorick> doesn't work
20:07:42  <TrueBrain> sure it does
20:07:44  <TrueBrain> just don't add the @
20:07:47  <yorick> @notice DorpsGek help
20:08:26  <yorick> the /notice DorpsGek help command doesn't work
20:08:35  <TrueBrain> start a PM
20:08:41  <Prof_Frink> There's always `/disco help me DorpsGek, you're my only hope`
20:08:53  *** mikk36 [] has joined #openttd
20:08:57  <mikk36> hey :)
20:08:59  <TrueBrain> hi
20:09:15  <mikk36> q about latest nightlyes, you have of course tested them
20:09:25  <mikk36> any particular number that is suitable enough for mp ?
20:09:27  <fjb> I just build a railway to an ECS industry and before the first train arrived the industry closed down. :-(
20:09:53  *** BJH2_ [] has joined #openttd
20:10:11  *** BJH2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:11:02  <TrueBrain> mikk36: the latest
20:11:20  <mikk36> uhm, ok
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20:39:15  <TrueBrain> Ni!
20:41:15  <Gonozal_VIII>  Ekky-ekky-ekky-ekky-z'Bang, zoom-Boing, z'nourrrwringmm
20:41:44  <Ailure> haha
20:41:49  <Ailure> politicans are stupid here
20:41:52  <Ailure> or at least
20:41:54  <Ailure> a politican was
20:42:49  <Ailure> A politican expressed concern over buying more Öresundst$BiH(B from Bombardier due to the recent aircraft ban on the Bombardier's Dash aircraft due to security related issues
20:42:53  <Ailure> eh safety rather
20:43:21  <Ailure> or I forgot if it was dash
20:43:42  <Ailure> oh wait, t is
20:45:50  <Ailure>
20:45:55  <hylje> :o
20:46:15  <Ailure> But yeah, kinda silly as Aircraft safety and train safety differs alot
20:46:46  <Ailure>
20:47:03  <Ailure> It's over this train the politican was expressing his concern over
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20:47:18  <Ailure> I want whatever he is smoking, it's a safe and moderntrain. :<
20:47:44  <Ailure> haha
20:47:49  <Ailure> it's halfy translated
20:47:59  <hylje> moderntrain!
20:48:08  <Ailure> I meant "a modern train"
20:48:18  <Ailure> My fingers slipped over the keys ;P
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20:49:33  <Gonozal_VIII> doesn't look like it has good aerodynamic
20:49:53  <Galamantyl`> "What?"  Planting trees raises local city rating?
20:50:36  <hylje> yes
20:50:39  <Ailure> heh
20:50:39  <Gonozal_VIII> yes... you can remove whole cities with that
20:50:51  <Ailure> the X2 trains that also go by here have good aerodynamics
20:51:00  <Ailure> I dunno why they went with a bottle-like shape for the ends
20:51:29  <Ailure> heh
20:51:35  <Ailure> my city H$BgT(Bsleholm is in the list of stops :D
20:51:41  <hylje> are those EMUs or single powered cars?
20:51:42  <Galamantyl`> So I can just... Destroy an industry... Any industry I want... As long as the city loves me...
20:51:48  <Galamantyl`> Then plant trees to get them to love me again?
20:51:58  <hylje> up to "good"
20:52:02  <Galamantyl`> Isn't this somewhat exploitable?
20:52:08  <Ailure> As far I know
20:52:10  <Ailure> they're EMU's
20:52:10  <Gonozal_VIII> no industries
20:52:23  <Ailure> They're a pretty good train too
20:52:29  <Gonozal_VIII> only if you cheat
20:52:32  <Ailure> I would love seeing it in a trainset
20:52:34  <Ailure> :p
20:52:42  <Galamantyl`> It says on the wiki that someone with over 768 rating with that city can destroy an industry
20:52:59  <Ailure> what
20:53:00  <Ailure> which wiki
20:53:06  <Ailure> what industries are you talking about anyway
20:53:20  <Galamantyl`>
20:53:35  <Ailure> ah wait
20:53:39  <Ailure> that's only true
20:53:52  <Ailure> if you enable the super dynamite cheat
20:53:55  <Ailure> I belive
20:53:57  <Gonozal_VIII> some buildings need very good like churches, stadiums or some office towers but i don't think that you can bulldoze industries that way
20:54:18  <Ailure> unless that's related to a newindustries flag
20:54:22  <Ailure> of some kind
20:54:38  <Galamantyl`> Alright, let's find out
20:54:49  <Galamantyl`> I'm currently in "Outstanding" standing with this one town
20:55:02  <Galamantyl`> So I'm definitely over 768 rating
20:55:09  *** BJH2_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:55:14  <Galamantyl`> Let's see if I can bulldoze their printing works factory
20:55:45  <Galamantyl`> Interesting.  It doesn't let me
20:55:49  <Galamantyl`> Then why does it say it on the wiki?
20:56:10  <Ailure> hold down ctrl+alt+c
20:56:13  <Gonozal_VIII> the game should have a lower minimum, then you couldn't use trees that way
20:56:14  <Ailure> enable the magic bulldozer cheat
20:56:24  <Ailure> try to destroy the industry
20:56:28  <Ailure> then check if it affects ratings
20:56:56  <Ailure> I think the magic bulldozer cheat kinda makes the game ignore ratings though, so you can destroy everything no matter how low it is
20:57:04  <Gonozal_VIII> it doesn't if you enable build while paused and pause the game while removing anything
20:57:46  <Ailure> could always be a situation that is coded in that way
20:57:50  <Ailure> but shouldn't normally happen
20:57:50  <Ailure> heh
21:00:39  *** guru3_ is now known as guru3
21:01:54  <Galamantyl`> The skyranger is in this game???
21:01:56  <Gonozal_VIII> ok rating changes with build in pause... maybe that's new but the cost is much lower then without pause
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21:16:34  <Galamantyl`> My game is almost over
21:16:39  <Galamantyl`> 1 more year
21:16:52  <Gonozal_VIII> it doesn't really stop then
21:17:01  <Galamantyl`> It doesn't?
21:17:05  <Gonozal_VIII> nope
21:17:21  <Galamantyl`> ???????
21:17:25  <Galamantyl`> I thought it's supposed to
21:18:00  <Gonozal_VIII> highscore is calculated but the game goes on
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21:18:18  <Galamantyl`> Does it at least provide statistics and stuff?
21:18:40  <Gonozal_VIII> wait and see ;-)
21:18:59  <Galamantyl`> This'll be a pretty crappy game if I don't see somethin fancy
21:21:32  *** BigBB [] has joined #openttd
21:21:33  <Gonozal_VIII> the years used to stop at 2090 but that's also gone
21:22:36  <hylje> it goes up to five million now
21:22:51  <Gonozal_VIII> nice^^
21:22:54  <Galamantyl`> That's just silly
21:23:39  <Gonozal_VIII> by then we will be floating around using the power of our minds... or something like that^^
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21:27:11  <Gonozal_VIII> is somebody working on a grf for vehicles before 1920? older steamers, horse drawn and such?
21:27:23  <Galamantyl`> That wasn't fancy at all!
21:27:50  <Phazorx> horse drawn?
21:28:10  <Phazorx> by time it finishes 1st round trip it will be 1950 and diesel era
21:30:39  <Gonozal_VIII> wouldn't be that much slower than ships
21:32:40  <Ailure> prboably would have very low running cost too
21:32:44  <Ailure> or else it wouldn't be worth it :P
21:33:12  <TrueBrain> <- nice :)
21:33:15  <Gonozal_VIII> the grf could start in 1800 with horses and some years later first little steamers and so on..
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21:46:06  <tiaz_> heh
21:47:04  <mikk36> lol
21:47:09  <mikk36> that's one hopeful town :)
21:47:09  <mikk36>,%2012th%20Jan%201954.png
21:52:21  <tiaz_>
21:52:23  <tiaz_> this was before bribes :(
21:53:56  <Gonozal_VIII> the sprites below the tracks don't fit
21:54:16  <tiaz_> that's what happens when you waterworld a desert
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22:04:53  <Gonozal_VIII> is it normal that when you remove a ship depot located in a canal, the depot tiles change to water, no matter what height level?
22:05:13  <TrueBrain> SpComb: weren't you the one saying I should use prototype?
22:05:18  <tiaz_> isn't that desirable?
22:05:18  <SpComb> yes
22:05:30  <TrueBrain> They really made a big advancement last time I checked ;)
22:05:36  <TrueBrain> so tnx for the reminder :)
22:05:50  *** Tlustoch [] has joined #openttd
22:06:43  <SpComb> that thing is painfully, painfully slow
22:06:52  <TrueBrain> 'thing'?
22:07:07  <SpComb> the pca-gamers thing
22:07:11  <TrueBrain> yes
22:07:15  <TrueBrain> I was annoyed by it
22:07:24  <TrueBrain> but okay, browsers are bad in SWG data :)
22:07:26  <SpComb> it uses 100% CPU
22:09:55  <SpComb> DOM manipulation is unusably slow
22:15:54  <TrueBrain> SpComb: a classic example of overdoing it ;)
22:19:38  *** |Bastiaan| [] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies]
22:22:21  <TrueBrain> I wonder if I can make in Python that you don't have to restart the server over and over...
22:23:03  <ln--> time for comedy:
22:23:33  <TrueBrain> more like horror
22:25:18  <ln--> it's coded by university CS students.
22:25:33  <TrueBrain> please give them a leason: consistancy
22:25:54  <ln--> fortunately not the same university i'm in.
22:27:16  *** Tlustoch [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:27:20  <TrueBrain> I stopped reading after:
22:27:21  <TrueBrain> #
22:27:21  <TrueBrain>                                 case ('B'): case ('b'): number += (int)(11*(pow(16.0,(double)counter))); break;
22:27:21  <TrueBrain> #
22:27:21  <TrueBrain>                                 case ('C'): case 'c': number += (int)(12*(pow(16.0,(double)counter))); break;
22:29:54  <ln--> i also like:   default: number += (int)(atoi(&c)*(pow(16.0,(double)counter))); break;
22:31:33  <ln--> it would simply be so boring if the value assigned to 'number' only was a function of 'c', which is a char, would it not.
22:32:48  <ln--> now there's a new touch of excitement since we don't know for sure what number will be if c is e.g. '1'.
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22:37:28  <Phazorx> hmm... i recall asking about thta before but i dotn have a record of the anser unfortunately
22:37:49  <Phazorx> where is the coop that generates industries when "many random" is pressed within the editor
22:38:36  <SpComb> TrueBrain: creative use of reload()
22:38:44  <SpComb> it depends on how your code works, it's somewhat hairy
22:40:24  <Ailure> bahaha
22:40:36  <Ailure> that actually reminds about how one of my classmates programmed some code for a project
22:40:41  <Ailure> it was just a huge switch statement
22:41:29  <Phazorx> i saw a riversi game logic programmed with 1300 ifs and a bord consisting of 64 independed objects with assigned neighbours... nothing can impress me any more :)
22:41:45  <Ailure> that's how he programmed his program
22:41:59  <Ailure> we were going to create a simple client<->server program
22:42:07  <Ailure> with a simple tic-tac-toe multiplyer game
22:42:20  <Ailure> I was mostly working on the server<->client part
22:42:22  <Phazorx> ttt is p2p
22:42:25  <Ailure> he was working on the game logic
22:42:36  <Phazorx> well logic needs ifs :)
22:42:39  <Ailure> I was the one who also pasted it all together (so in the end, I winded up with most of the work)
22:42:46  <Ailure> and I had a hard time following his code
22:43:05  <Ailure> becuse he made it way more complicated than it's needed
22:43:10  <Ailure> with some ideas that just dosen't make sense
22:43:15  <Phazorx> well i bet hew knew what functions and arreays are
22:43:23  <Tefad> ifs?
22:43:29  <Phazorx> if statement
22:43:37  <Tefad> oh.
22:43:39  <Phazorx> Ailure: in my cases these there a mistery to the author
22:44:45  <Ailure> what is this code suposed to be doing
22:44:49  <Ailure> anyway
22:45:03  <Phazorx> this ?
22:45:08  <Ailure> yeah
22:45:14  <Ailure> I have a hard time following it myself
22:45:19  <Phazorx> the one i am discribing was the reversi game
22:45:21  <Phazorx> single player
22:45:22  <Ailure> but it seems to be related to hexdecimal numbers and strings
22:45:26  <Ailure>
22:45:28  <Ailure> this one
22:45:42  <Rubidium> what it does? well... break stuff that assume it is correct
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22:46:14  <Ailure> I made a variable->String algorithm once somewhere for a firmware
22:46:40  <Ailure> it was fun to make :)
22:47:25  <Ailure> let me just find it
22:47:45  <Ailure> it was a fun course
22:47:54  <Ailure> especially when I got a lab mate that never touched a programming language before
22:47:56  <Phazorx> Rubidium: where is the loop that generates industries ?
22:48:02  <Phazorx> industry_gui somewhere?
22:49:44  * SpComb needs to get around to writing network client code for a Java thing
22:49:57  <SpComb> it'd be fine if it was in Python, but I'm somewhat unfamiliar with Java in that regard
22:50:26  <Ailure>
22:50:28  <Rubidium> Ailure, well... what it does: write out of bounds, read out of bounds, perform magical additions (the kind that sometimes adds more then you want it to add (254..254 (i.e. all 254) ++ -> 0), not returning a useful string representation (0 and '0' are both mapped to '0', so it's one-way)
22:50:31  <Ailure> I considered this code to be hacky ahahaha
22:50:39  <Rubidium> Phazorx: tried searching for generate and industry?
22:50:51  <Rubidium> or the plural thereof?
22:51:04  <Ailure> ah
22:51:06  <Phazorx> rubidiom i'm having issues confirming there is only one for editor and map generation
22:51:07  <Ailure> sonds fun
22:51:19  <Ailure> heh
22:51:47  <Phazorx> industry_cmd:1706 is the functiona that does it
22:51:55  <Ailure> My biggest obstacle with C though
22:51:59  <Ailure> was the concepts of pointers
22:52:00  <Phazorx> now what i dont know if there is more to it and editor using something else
22:52:04  <Rubidium> Ailure: it ain't C
22:52:07  <Ailure> it might sound silly, but if you're been devoloping in Java for too long time
22:52:12  <Ailure> well
22:52:15  <Ailure> I got it quickly
22:52:21  <Ailure> but it was still something I had to get used to
22:52:22  <Rubidium> the map editor uses the same thing
22:52:39  <Rubidium> or so I think
22:52:52  <Ailure> [23:49] <Rubidium> Ailure: it ain't C
22:52:54  <Ailure> why not?
22:52:56  <Phazorx> Ailure: that's difference between lously typed/scripted languages with it's own memory management and strict resource allocation languages
22:53:24  <Ailure> the code I posted is C
22:53:33  <Ailure> although just a short snipped
22:53:41  <Ailure> the main method and include statements and all that is excluded
22:53:44  <Rubidium> Ailure: good luck trying to compile it with a C compiler
22:54:12  <Ailure> the tU8 and tU32 are defined in a header file btw
22:54:14  <Phazorx> Rubidium: map editor does not care about "number of industry" dificulty setting  (at least visualy) and this function lloks like does... hence the suspicion that i am looking in wrong place :|
22:54:16  <Rubidium> or is the C standard changed lately so it includes classes and such
22:54:17  <Ailure> if it's those you are referring to
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22:55:09  <Ailure> What with the code does it not make it C?
22:55:10  <Ailure> <<
22:55:17  <Ailure>
22:55:18  <Ailure> here
22:55:36  <Ailure> unless you are talking about a diffrent source
22:55:36  <Ailure> haha
22:55:52  <Rubidium> I'm talking about the pastebin thingy
22:55:56  <Ailure> oh
22:55:56  <Ailure> haha
22:55:59  <Ailure> that's definatly C++
22:56:00  <Ailure> yeah
22:56:09  <Ailure> no wonder
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23:44:51  <Wolf01> 'night
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