Log for #openttd on 21st November 2007:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:01:12  <fjb> Nobody wants something unwanted. :-)
00:03:48  <Eddi|zuHause3> that's kinda the point :p
00:08:44  <Peter1986> lol yeah but to a coded server, even 'good' people can't just go...
00:09:35  <Peter1986> like if i say my code is d4Rk_L1f3 and others don't figure out, how will they join??? :D
00:09:37  <Peter1986> xD
00:10:07  <Peter1986> zuHause means is at home... in German
00:10:09  <Peter1986> right?
00:10:23  <Gonozal_VIII> yes
00:10:53  <Peter1986> is everyone German except me?
00:11:07  <Eddi|zuHause3> yex
00:11:09  <Peter1986> at lake Balaton, i see many German tourists during summer
00:11:28  <Gonozal_VIII> <-- austrian, not german
00:11:31  <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, that's a very common goal
00:11:31  <Peter1986> i always ask, are they post-East, or post-West, and 99% of them answer :)
00:11:57  <Peter1986> aha...
00:12:07  <Peter1986> but you also use German language...
00:12:17  <Gonozal_VIII> sometimes^^
00:12:23  <Eddi|zuHause3> when you want to call it like that :po
00:12:27  <Peter1986> i guess only we are a nation which use its language on its own...
00:12:47  <Peter1986> even our so-called language relatives are pretty far from understanding us :D
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00:13:35  * fjb is german.
00:13:47  <Peter1986> -me is a Hungarian
00:13:52  * Peter1986 is a Hungarian
00:14:12  <Peter1986> from the Northern border of Balkan
00:14:15  <Peter1986> xD
00:14:36  <fjb> Hungarian is a very strange language.
00:14:45  <Peter1986> any way, my English isn't really good, and my German is almost zero...
00:15:00  <fjb> We understand you, so it's fine.
00:15:20  <Peter1986> jaaaa Plattensee ist sehr schön... Ungarn habe schöne mÀdchen
00:15:29  <Peter1986> :D
00:15:31  <Gonozal_VIII> ^^
00:15:40  <Peter1986> schwein is pig
00:15:54  <oh_> I've neglected my german
00:15:56  <Peter1986> and scheise is sh1t
00:15:57  <Peter1986> :)
00:16:03  <fjb> And you had great photographic paper. :-(
00:16:23  <Peter1986> so it's all i know in German...
00:16:23  <oh_> though I'm thinking more and more about moving to germany, thus I find myself watching strange german sitcoms
00:16:54  <Peter1986> where are you from?
00:16:58  <oh_> norway :>
00:17:16  <Peter1986> many from your nation study here at medical univ.
00:17:24  <Peter1986> Pécs University :)
00:17:36  <oh_> yeah, I have a mate going there
00:17:41  <oh_> and another one in buda
00:17:47  <Peter1986> das ist FÃŒnfkirche auf Deutsch
00:17:48  <oh_> pest that is
00:17:57  <Peter1986> so it's 5 churches is German
00:18:09  <Peter1986> Budapest is our capitol
00:18:22  <Peter1986> but nowdays many cities have college and university
00:18:31  <Peter1986> even small ones...
00:18:41  <Peter1986> many are founded after the regime change
00:18:50  <Peter1986> when socialism collapsed...
00:18:59  <oh_> there was some commotion a while back about a bunch of norwegian pecs students bringing corpses back to their apartments :o
00:19:12  <Peter1986> really???
00:19:22  <Peter1986> why do they bring corpse home?
00:19:26  <Peter1986> it's morbid...
00:19:45  <oh_> indeed, apparently they wanted to study anatomy on their own ;P
00:19:54  <Peter1986> pff... :P
00:20:00  <Peter1986> tragical...
00:20:22  <Peter1986> we even have African, Arabian, Persian, Asian ppl at the Univ. :)
00:20:26  <Gonozal_VIII> i've heard that if you can sell everything from a healthy human corpse, it's worth about 100k $
00:20:27  <Peter1986> and many Germans too :)
00:20:55  <Eddi|zuHause3> we have lots of chinese people here
00:21:02  <Peter1986> then i don't worth too much... i'm 21, smoking and drinking coffee every day
00:21:06  <Eddi|zuHause3> at the university i mean
00:21:09  <Peter1986> and drinking alcohol on parties
00:21:20  <Peter1986> we have Chinese traders
00:21:28  <Peter1986> they operate shops and restaurants
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00:21:32  <Peter1986> i like Chinese girls
00:21:34  <Peter1986> :D
00:21:40  <Peter1986> i had one Chinese gf
00:21:41  <oh_> Gonozal_VIII: depends where ofcourse ;)
00:22:01  <Gonozal_VIII> chinese restaurant :-)
00:22:01  <Peter1986> i wrote it out on tt-forums :D
00:22:19  <Peter1986> i like Asian girls generally...
00:22:29  <Peter1986> they are somehow... feminine inside
00:22:33  <Peter1986> and outside too :)
00:22:39  <oh_> I'll never have a chinese gf :o
00:22:39  <Peter1986> but not bitchy at all
00:22:57  <Peter1986> hope you aren't discriminating them...
00:23:09  <Peter1986> cause i don't discriminate other humans
00:23:13  <oh_> no, I just shoulda thought about that before I ended up practically married ;)
00:23:14  <Gonozal_VIII> not bitchy is good... hard to find nowadays
00:23:30  <Peter1986> yes
00:23:41  <Peter1986> in Europe, and North America, hard
00:23:41  <oh_> it'll be something I'll moan about when I get old I guess ;P
00:23:47  <Peter1986> in 3rd world: easy
00:24:00  <Peter1986> girls grew up and learn other things like here
00:24:04  <Peter1986> they are tolerant
00:24:08  <Peter1986> and loving
00:24:16  <Peter1986> and they take care about the kids
00:24:18  <Peter1986> etc.
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00:24:58  <Peter1986> have you ppl seen the movie Borat?
00:25:07  <oh_> who hasn't ;)
00:25:21  <Peter1986> :)
00:25:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> what he said
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00:25:43  <Peter1986> btw i like to write bullsh1t on signs when gaming online @ OTTD :D
00:25:50  <Peter1986> like that sentence
00:26:13  <Peter1986> or like DAT MY CITI NO ONE TAKE DAT!
00:26:16  <Peter1986> or so
00:26:17  <Peter1986> :)
00:26:27  <oh_> I CAN HAZ MILL PLX?!
00:26:34  <oh_> then proceed to post land-buys all around it
00:26:37  <oh_> ?
00:26:48  <Peter1986> no i don't buy the city
00:26:50  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe lolcode
00:27:13  <Peter1986> but i don't like when others surround it with 10x10 stations so it can't grow...
00:27:15  <oh_> used to play wow as a raider
00:27:21  <oh_> it's a part of me whether I like it or not :/
00:27:26  <Peter1986> i like cities growing to metropolis
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00:28:20  <Peter1986> what's this i can haz mill plx?!
00:28:31  <Peter1986> wow is world of warcraft, yes?
00:28:47  <oh_> yeah
00:29:09  <Peter1986> and whats 'i can haz mill plx?!'
00:29:11  <Peter1986> ?
00:29:32  <oh_> just an imitation of how alot of wow players would phrase themselves
00:29:56  <Gonozal_VIII> also a programming language :-)
00:30:00  <Peter1986> when i have the feeling i like to imitate very bad english skills...
00:30:12  <oh_>
00:30:13  <Peter1986> like
00:30:15  <Peter1986> who you?
00:30:22  <oh_> hu joo
00:30:24  <Gonozal_VIII> HAI
00:30:24  <Gonozal_VIII> CAN HAS STDIO?
00:30:24  <Gonozal_VIII> VISIBLE "HAI WORLD!"
00:30:24  <Gonozal_VIII> KTHXBYE
00:30:24  <Peter1986> wat citi?
00:30:30  <oh_> haha gono
00:30:44  <oh_>
00:30:45  <Peter1986> you is not nice get lost from me citi etc.
00:31:05  <Peter1986> and stupid BORAT-like stuff
00:31:05  <oh_> u bad dis mine citi n00b gtfo
00:31:19  <Peter1986> gtfo = ?
00:31:24  <Peter1986> get the fuck out?
00:31:26  <oh_> aye
00:31:27  <Peter1986> or what?
00:32:54  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe try/catch block is opened by PLZ then AWSUM THX for success and O NOES for exception^^
00:33:12  <Peter1986> lol
00:33:22  <Peter1986> is it seriously a program code?
00:33:27  <Peter1986> hehehe :)
00:33:31  <Gonozal_VIII> yes it is :-)
00:34:13  <Peter1986> many geeks is live on face of mother Earth JAH know dat...
00:34:18  <Peter1986> hehe
00:34:24  <Peter1986> like Rastaman say...
00:34:27  <Peter1986> :D
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00:38:16  <Peter1986> anyway, i'm not a typical computer geek :D
00:38:24  <Peter1986> i have RL too :D
00:38:26  <Peter1986> xD
00:39:42  <Peter1986> is anyone here?
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00:40:13  <Eddi|zuHause3> Gonozal_VIII: i think the "WTF EXCEPTION" thing is much funnier :)
00:40:29  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
00:41:16  <Peter1986> anyway, i like the game OTTD, but sometimes i need to go somewhere where i find friends, beers and of course college/university girls :D
00:41:23  <Peter1986> single girls of course
00:41:44  <Eddi|zuHause3> you what?
00:41:44  <Gonozal_VIII> maybe somebody could implement that into the game...
00:41:52  <Eddi|zuHause3> :p
00:41:55  <Peter1986> what?
00:42:02  <Gonozal_VIII> roadmap 0.7.0
00:42:03  <Peter1986> date with girlz?
00:42:14  <Peter1986> lol
00:42:25  <Peter1986> first i think we shoulda make more grf
00:42:35  <Peter1986> like RUSSKIY things...
00:42:43  <Peter1986> good old USSR stuff
00:42:57  <Peter1986> like Sergei diesel train, and KAMAZ rucks...
00:43:00  <Peter1986> ZIL
00:43:04  <Gonozal_VIII> the wiki says: "There is no idea what is going to be in 0.7.0." so it could be hot girls!
00:43:12  <Peter1986> MAZ truck, bus, trolleyá
00:43:16  <Peter1986> ZIU trolley
00:43:46  <Peter1986> and other communist-era things (Czeh, Slovak, Serbian grf producers did some nice job)
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00:44:07  <Peter1986> maybe we need IFA too :)
00:44:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, there was this sergey guy...
00:44:36  <Peter1986> and create some more socialistic building pack
00:45:09  <Peter1986> to make a "on the other side of the Iron Curtain" pack :D
00:45:19  <Gonozal_VIII> erm... :S WTF EXCEPTION
00:45:53  <Gonozal_VIII> with the narrow gauge rail grf i can build narrow gauge rail..
00:46:11  <Gonozal_VIII> but as soon as i add narrow gauge trains, the rail is disabled
00:46:23  <Peter1986> why? it will be nice... to we eastern ppl feel home too :)
00:46:23  <Eddi|zuHause3> funny ;)
00:46:42  <Peter1986> so narrow gauge replace ragular rail?
00:46:51  <Gonozal_VIII> monorail
00:47:09  <Peter1986> oh...
00:47:11  <Peter1986> how?
00:47:23  <Peter1986> OTTD can use more than 3 rail types right?
00:47:31  <Peter1986> we already have 4
00:47:36  <Peter1986> and 2 road types
00:47:41  <Peter1986> road and tram
00:47:56  <Peter1986> we shoulda need trolley road too xD
00:48:04  <Gonozal_VIII> yes and the narrow gauge replaces monorail
00:48:14  <Peter1986> it's bad...
00:48:28  <Peter1986> as USA kids say: that sux...
00:48:35  <Gonozal_VIII> not bad as most trainsets don't have monorail
00:48:45  <Peter1986> yeah...
00:48:52  <Gonozal_VIII> and even with standard vehicles monorail is not very useful
00:48:53  <Peter1986> cause they were built for TTDP
00:49:08  <Peter1986> and there electric rail replaced monorail
00:49:17  <Gonozal_VIII> but as soon as i load the serbian rail set, monorail (narrow gauge) is greyed out
00:50:13  <Peter1986> what if Wile E. Coyote and the other devs of Serbian vehicles, made some bug?
00:50:17  <Peter1986> or so...
00:50:22  <Gonozal_VIII> i can still build and use it if the build menu was open during grf loading...
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00:53:32  <Gonozal_VIII> ok, i can't build...
00:53:55  <Gonozal_VIII> always the can't build bla here message
00:54:05  <Peter1986> :S
00:54:40  <Gonozal_VIII> but they run on maglev now
00:54:48  <Eddi|zuHause3> <Peter1986> we shoulda need trolley road too xD <- that is very unlikely to happen
00:55:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> the current system is laid out to 3 road types, the 3rd is preparation for highways, afaik
00:56:18  <Gonozal_VIII> what exactly is a trolley road?
00:57:11  <Gonozal_VIII> aaah that's called trolley
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01:03:15  <Peter1986> trolley is electrical bus
01:03:21  <Peter1986> needs overhead wire
01:03:26  <Gonozal_VIII> yes i googled that :-)
01:03:37  <Peter1986> nice :)
01:03:39  <Gonozal_VIII> didn't know the word
01:03:52  <Peter1986> 'google is your friend' as some say :D
01:04:09  <Peter1986> German language call it Obus, yes?
01:04:19  <Gonozal_VIII> yes
01:04:23  <Peter1986> Ikarus Hungarian bus had that...
01:04:30  <Gonozal_VIII> short for Oberleitungsbus :-)
01:04:47  <Peter1986> Ikarus 280.93 i think was running in DDR in the 1980s
01:05:06  <Gonozal_VIII> we have some running here in my city
01:05:14  <Peter1986> an of course Ikarus was world famous :)
01:05:29  <Gonozal_VIII> because he flew too high
01:05:44  <Peter1986> that is Ikaros
01:05:54  <Peter1986> Ikarus is a bus factory in Hungary
01:07:19  <Peter1986>
01:07:29  <Peter1986> i made this topic for that, long ago...
01:10:14  <Eddi|zuHause3> -os and -us are pretty exchangeable meanwhile... -os is usually the original greek extension, but especially for words that ran through latin, it often changes to -us
01:11:04  <Eddi|zuHause3> and you can be 99% that the name from the hungarian busses was derived from the flying guy
01:11:13  <Eddi|zuHause3> +certain
01:12:31  <Eddi|zuHause3> we had lots of ikarus busses by 1990, but i have not seen any in the last years
01:12:41  <Eddi|zuHause3> they all seem to have been replaced
01:13:53  <Eddi|zuHause3> and yes, the 'O' in "O-Bus" is short for "Oberleitung" (=catenary)
01:15:07  <Sacro> Oberleitung!
01:22:38  <Peter1986> hehehe
01:22:40  <Peter1986> nice
01:23:00  <Peter1986> yes, but written Ikarus is referring to the bus company
01:23:16  <Peter1986> referring to flying man of Greek legend is written Ikaros
01:23:21  <Peter1986> checkwikipedia :)
01:23:36  <Sacro> Icarus?
01:23:56  <Gonozal_VIII>
01:23:58  <Gonozal_VIII> :-)
01:29:27  <Peter1986> lol
01:29:44  <Peter1986> English and Hungarian wikipedia have under Ikarus the bus :)
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01:31:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> in the german wikipedia, Ikaros redirects to Ikarus, the bus is under
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01:33:51  <Peter1986> lol :)
01:34:04  <Peter1986> do you know what means ladyboy?
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01:34:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> should i?
01:34:39  <Peter1986> my friend translated the article at wikipedi to Hungarian from English :D
01:34:52  <Peter1986> we had it earlier than Dutch, German, Russian :D
01:35:02  <Peter1986> then read it
01:36:17  <Peter1986>
01:36:20  <Peter1986> English
01:36:28  <Peter1986> there is link to German too
01:37:38  <Gonozal_VIII> [02:34:22] Eddi|zuHause2: should i? <-- no
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01:37:53  <Gonozal_VIII> ^^
01:38:47  <Peter1986> what did you figured from reading it? :)
01:40:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> i really shouldn't :p
01:41:41  <Peter1986> lol
01:42:12  <Peter1986> anyway that ladyboys like white guys
01:42:17  <Peter1986> especially tall ones
01:42:30  <Peter1986> Germans and English and other Europeans...
01:42:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> i suggest you to not go on with this thought...
01:42:49  <Peter1986> i saw documentary film of Thailand on TV
01:42:58  <Peter1986> and they mentioned ladyboys too
01:43:26  <Peter1986> ok it isn't too important
01:43:30  <Peter1986> change topic
01:43:45  <Peter1986> like... i have to go soon it's almost 3am
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05:38:10  <mikk36|work> morning, sleepers
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05:42:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> sleep? where?
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07:11:39  <Soup> anyone has the beta
07:12:06  <Soup> i do
07:13:40  <Soup> ill slap me
07:14:02  <Soup> for a dumb question
07:14:05  * Soup slaps Soup upside da head with a hairy goldfish
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07:16:21  <Peter1986> hi
07:17:12  <mikk36|work> Eddi|zuHause2, there
07:17:50  <Soup> there
07:18:47  <Peter1986> hi
07:19:02  <mikk36|work> hi, Peter1986
07:19:41  <Soup> dumb linux root
07:20:08  <Soup> i just got linux last week
07:20:14  <mikk36|work> lol
07:20:43  <Soup> hope i can compile openttd
07:25:51  <Peter1986> is anyone here?
07:26:23  <Peter1986> what does it mean 'escessive lameness'?
07:26:39  <Peter1986> i saw it somewhere...
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07:30:02  <Peter1986> hi
07:30:14  <Peter1986> so what does that 'excessive lameness' mean?
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07:40:19  <Rubidium> Peter1986: that the person is too lame to get a dictionary to find the meaning of the words "excessive" and "lameness"
07:40:59  <Peter1986> i thought it is some 'phraze' at OTTD...
07:41:15  <Peter1986> like it means when they chat with signs etc.
07:41:21  <Peter1986> xD
07:42:27  <Rubidium> oh, it's something some users say? Then it's better to place a sign there and ask what it means! ;)
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07:51:43  <Peter1986> no, i was thinking maybe it has a meaning ingame what us not its regular meaning...
07:52:05  <Peter1986> maybe some OTTD slangs like rotten banana etc. xD
07:52:41  <Rubidium> I've never seen it, but that might be due to the fact that I virtually never play MP.
07:53:20  <Peter1986> :)
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07:53:40  <Peter1986> but i guess devs don't have much time to play...
07:55:43  <Rubidium> s/play/do anything OTTD related/
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08:01:53  <dihedral> morning
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09:58:56  <SmatZ> hello world
09:59:11  <dihedral> yay - SmatZ wrote is first irc script :-D
09:59:34  <dihedral> !ping
10:00:03  <SmatZ> pong
10:00:05  <SmatZ> :-D
10:00:08  <dihedral> :-P
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11:02:52  <Gekz> oooh~
11:02:58  <Gekz> 0.6.0-beta1!
11:03:03  <Gekz> which version of svn is it
11:03:04  <Gekz> lol
11:07:05  <Brianetta> lol?
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11:26:19  <blathijs> Gekz: /tags/0.6.0-beta1 I'd expect :-)
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11:28:15  <dihedral> lol
11:28:24  <dihedral> blathijs: i was thinking the same thing, but did not want to say it :-P
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11:34:07  <Chris82> hi guys :)
11:34:24  <Chris82> I can't compile current trunk (clean) with MSVC anymore, it just hangs on determining version number
11:35:21  <blathijs> ey Chris82
11:35:27  <blathijs> Chris82: What version?
11:35:48  <Chris82> I was using r11355 before and now updated to latest trunk (r11485)
11:35:58  <blathijs> 11355 worked?
11:36:01  <Chris82> yes
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11:36:18  <blathijs> Chris82: Could you perhaps try to find the breaking revision (by bisecting, for example?)
11:36:22  <Chris82> I don't know where exactly the problem started, because I haven't done anything with OpenTTD for a while (thus the lack of ChrisIN updates)
11:36:38  <Chris82> yeah I can partially revert using TortoiseSVN
11:36:38  <blathijs> Chris82: Perhaps look through the log to see if anything changed in the svn revision detection
11:36:56  <Chris82> ok I try to find where the problem started
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11:38:59  <blathijs> Chris82: Thanks!
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11:42:09  <dihedral> hey Chris82
11:42:16  <dihedral> long time no see (online)
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11:45:12  <Chris82> hi :) yeah busy with uni stuff
11:45:33  <Chris82> I just wanted to do a ChrisIN sync otherwise I will miss too much stuff and not be able anymore to sync it
11:45:43  <Chris82> I already missed a lot ;)
11:46:10  <Chris82> r11450 works fine, so only 35 builds left to check
11:47:10  <LeviathNL> first check number 16 :)
11:47:50  <dihedral> you mean r16 :-D
11:47:56  <dihedral> that would be funny
11:48:04  <dihedral> retro ottd gaming :-D
11:48:59  <Chris82> blathijs: The git detection from r11470 is causing it
11:49:33  <Chris82> r11469 builds fine, newer builds hang on version detection in MSVC 2005 and 2008
11:51:11  <Chris82> I wonder why no one noticed this yet... do so few people use MSVC ;) or are they just too lazy to look up problems :D
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11:51:38  <dihedral> i use mac and linux
11:51:39  <dihedral> :-)
11:51:48  <dihedral> and no - i dont use xcode for that either
11:54:28  <Rubidium> Chris82: probably something special to your setup
11:55:17  <Chris82> well at least of MSVC 2008 I have a default install
11:55:46  <Chris82> but if you tell me what "git detection" is I can look at the properties
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12:14:16  <Rubidium> it's detecting whether you have some kind of versioning system (like svn, but then different)
12:15:33  <Rubidium> it's probably hanging in the following line:
12:15:35  <Rubidium> Do While oExec.Status = 0 And Err.Number = 0
12:15:53  <Rubidium> but I've got no MSVC or even Windows to test it
12:16:08  <BigBB> MSVC 2008 works fine for me, it must be a problem in his setup
12:16:16  <Rubidium> and no idea what it does when it does not have git
12:16:28  <Rubidium> hmm... I think I have a reason why it doesn't work
12:16:38  <Rubidium> Chris82: are you maybe NOT using a SVN checkout?
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12:21:14  <Chris82> I am using a SVN checkout created with TortoiseSVN
12:21:29  <Chris82> and I have a default install of MSVC 2008 with no environment settings changed
12:21:39  <Chris82> the only thing I changed was that line numbers are being displayed
12:23:50  <Rubidium> in case of TortoiseSVN it should've detected SVN and bailed out
12:24:07  <Rubidium> but, can you confirm it is the line I mentioned?
12:25:07  <Rubidium> (just remove that loop)
12:25:17  <Chris82> let met try
12:25:22  <Chris82> me*
12:27:26  <Chris82> nope still hangs after removing the loop
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12:28:36  <Rubidium> could you add some alerts (or whatever they're called) in strategic places to see where it stops working?
12:29:10  <Chris82> you mean breakpoints?
12:29:37  <Chris82> the problem is that I don't get a build log when it hangs, I only get one when building fails
12:29:39  <Rubidium> don't think those work, but you might try
12:30:03  <Chris82> no you're right they won't help here
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12:34:07  <BigBB> look if you have an other program as standard program for *.vbs files. This can make trouble with VC and the revision stuff
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12:38:33  <Chris82> Microsoft (R) Windows Based Script Host is the default program and always was
12:39:25  <Chris82> I just tried it on XP to verify it's not Vista, but the same happens there (also default install of MSVC)
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12:41:55  <Chris82> where is $(InputDir) for "$(InputDir)/determineversion.vbs" defined?
12:42:07  <Chris82> or does it mean the root of the project?
12:48:49  <Rubidium> Chris82: somewhere deep inside MSVC magic
12:48:52  <Chris82> the tsvn_tmp file when checking for TortoiseSVN is not created
12:49:05  <Chris82> but this line sTortoise = WshShell.RegRead("HKLM\SOFTWARE\TortoiseSVN\Directory")
12:49:15  <Rubidium> but IIRC it means the location where the solution files are (or something like that)
12:49:24  <Chris82> where it checks for the TortoiseSVN directory references an existing registry key and it has the correct directory in there
12:50:03  <Chris82> so something with TortoiseSVN detection is not working and thus it thinks there is no SVN
12:52:51  <Rubidium> but that doesn't make it 'hang'
12:53:07  <Rubidium> as that is not changed and it did not 'hang' before
12:53:14  <Rubidium> so that is not an issue at the moment
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12:54:12  <Chris82> well I will just try reverting the changes part by part and see where it starts hanging
12:54:13  <Rubidium> oh_ really? it's simply y<TAB>
12:54:24  <Chris82> huh?
12:54:52  <Rubidium> Chris82: someone changed his name into 'you2willhavetocopyphastediz8'
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12:56:45  <oh_> Rubidium: lies
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12:57:18  <oh_> Rubidium: tab completion is illegal i nine of ten countries
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12:57:25  <oh_> in
12:57:42  <dihedral> ?
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12:57:57  <Rubidium> oh_: lieing is illegal in ten of ten countries!
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12:58:12  <dihedral> nice one Rubidium
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12:58:22  <oh_> Rubidium: question is; how will you prove I lied?
12:58:40  <dihedral> he does not have to
12:59:16  <Rubidium> Africa > 30 countries, the world has < 300 countries, African countries have no laws so everything is legal -> you lied
12:59:19  <dihedral> a statement from a trusted person is worth more on irc than a statement from some 'new guy' :-P
12:59:20  <oh_> we all know reality is a subjective thing, in turn making truth the same
13:00:04  <oh_> (can you tell it's been a loong time since I last dabbled in philosophy?)
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13:00:39  <dihedral> LOL
13:00:41  <Rubidium> and one of a operator even more ;)
13:00:52  <dihedral> i spy with my little eye
13:01:00  *** mode/#openttd [+v Rubidium] by Rubidium
13:01:02  *** mode/#openttd [-o Rubidium] by Rubidium
13:01:12  <Rubidium> see, I've been given a +
13:01:17  <dihedral> LOL
13:01:25  <hylje> you are clearly superior
13:01:29  <Wezz6400> all I see is a yellow icon :P
13:01:41  <Chris82> oh_: actually there is only one truth and people misuse this word to explain their actions
13:01:43  <Rubidium> Wezz6400: use a proper IRC client
13:02:01  <dihedral> lol
13:02:04  <Rubidium> Chris82: paradox
13:02:06  <Wezz6400> Rubidium I do actually
13:02:13  <oh_> dealing in absolutes is bad
13:02:22  <Wezz6400> I just can't be bothered to change the icons back
13:02:31  <dihedral> :-P
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13:02:42  <Rubidium> Wezz6400: can I keep it running and connect to it via ssh?
13:02:45  <oh_> I get some silhouette with a blue background :I
13:02:54  <Wezz6400> no
13:03:00  <Wezz6400> that I have my bouncer for :P
13:03:01  <Rubidium> then it's not a proper IRC client ;)
13:03:17  <Rubidium> bouncers are pretty useless
13:03:24  <Rubidium> usually at least
13:03:48  <Wezz6400> well I'm running it on my router box at home
13:03:48  <Chris82> Well what I wanted to say was there is nothing like true or wrong, there is only right or false and that is truly subjective (no need to understand what I just said lol)
13:04:00  <Chris82> -was
13:04:00  <Rubidium> as when people are not connected to the bouncer and you highlight them once and start talking, the other person has no idea what I said after the first highlighted sentence.
13:04:08  <Wezz6400> I find it more convenient to keep online whenever I reboot my pc
13:04:25  <Rubidium> and there is no automatic way to tell me that it wasn't received
13:04:36  <Rubidium> Wezz6400: for that you don't need a bouncer
13:04:48  <oh_> if (statement == right) { kthx; } ?
13:05:07  <Wezz6400> Rubidium I know, irrsi on it will do the same thing, however I don't like irssi
13:05:26  <Rubidium> why not?
13:05:36  <Rubidium> take bitchy ;)
13:05:42  <Rubidium> s/y/x/
13:05:54  <Rubidium> or... even better, write your own
13:05:55  <Wezz6400> I find the controls and interface a bit too basic
13:06:17  *** exe [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:07:20  <Wezz6400> I mean sure it's a nice programme and all, however I just prefer using something with a graphical interface such as xchat
13:07:54  <dihedral> you just like using your mouse
13:09:00  <Rubidium> ofcourse Wezz6400 also doesn't use those'archic' controls in Windows to swap applications, he better uses the graphical interface for that
13:09:20  <Rubidium> I bet he even uses the on-screen keyboard as that is so much nicer than a dull keyboard ;)
13:09:38  <Wezz6400> yeah yeah yeah
13:10:37  <dihedral> :-P
13:10:44  <dihedral> Rubidium: with a touch screen :-D
13:10:51  <Wezz6400> I like using the commmand line, however for a client machine which my home pc is I just prefer a graphical interface instead of a command line interface, I find it looks a bit better and is a bit easier to use; nothing wrong with irssi it's just my personal preference
13:11:30  <hylje> irssi ftw!
13:11:30  <dihedral> if it's linux press print screen (and hold) and type s u b :-D
13:11:47  <dihedral> and dont trust me on that one
13:11:59  * dihedral is at least kind enough to mention it
13:12:04  <Wezz6400> I never trust anything giving me some key combination over the internet
13:12:12  <Wezz6400> anyone*
13:12:14  <dihedral> :-P
13:12:49  <Wezz6400> Partly because I like to abuse other people's trust like that too :+
13:12:49  <dihedral> ok - echo "foo" /dev/kmem :-D
13:13:02  <dihedral> sorry
13:13:07  <dihedral> echo "foo" > /dev/kmem
13:13:09  <dihedral> :-P
13:13:33  <Wezz6400> kmem wouldn't have to do with the kernel or something now would it ;)
13:14:07  * dihedral humms
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13:46:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11486 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#1457]: industry count was wrong in smallmap
13:50:52  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r11487 /trunk/src/player_gui.cpp: -Fix (r11435): move the list of vehicles a bit higher in the player GUI
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13:53:01  <dihedral> nice one
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14:53:55  <Team-iN> hey there
14:54:04  <Team-iN> Anyone here?
14:54:22  <Team-iN> I tried to install openttd from the svn
14:54:26  <Team-iN> on my debian
14:54:42  <Team-iN> Now it says I'm missing chars.grf and openttdw.grf
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14:55:14  <Team-iN> hey
14:56:08  <fjb> Moin
14:56:34  <Team-iN> Now it says I'm missing chars.grf and openttdw.grf
14:56:48  <Team-iN> I installed openttd on my linux box from svn and im missing those :S
14:56:52  <Team-iN> But i dont have those files
14:57:08  <dihedral> you are repeating yourself :-P
14:57:13  <Team-iN> Lol i know
14:57:19  <Team-iN> but maybe he knows something :P
14:57:28  *** Team-iN is now known as Jeffroiscool
14:58:22  <frosch123> The files are in /trunk/bin/data.
14:58:38  <Jeffroiscool> :S
14:58:55  <Rubidium> Jeffroiscool: how did you 'install' it?
14:59:09  <Jeffroiscool> I did a checkout
14:59:17  <Jeffroiscool> then made a data folder in the reale
14:59:19  <Jeffroiscool> release
14:59:25  <Jeffroiscool> then put in the required files
14:59:34  <Jeffroiscool> also ./configure and make
14:59:48  <Rubidium> Jeffroiscool: if you had placed them in bin/data and had run bin/openttd you would've had no problem.
15:00:00  <Jeffroiscool> hmm
15:00:04  <Jeffroiscool> illl copy data from bin
15:00:11  <Jeffroiscool> also
15:00:18  <Jeffroiscool> I want to run it as a server
15:00:22  <Jeffroiscool> is that possible?
15:00:41  <Rubidium> objs/* is not meant to be used as place from where you start the binary.
15:00:46  <Rubidium> yes that is possible
15:00:54  <Jeffroiscool> I copied the /objs
15:01:04  <Jeffroiscool> :O
15:01:06  <Jeffroiscool> its in bin
15:01:06  <Jeffroiscool> xD
15:01:12  <dihedral> you copied /objs ?
15:01:16  <Jeffroiscool> yeah i did
15:01:22  <Jeffroiscool> because it said it was there
15:01:30  <Rubidium> what said that?
15:01:38  <Jeffroiscool> One of the programs
15:01:41  <Jeffroiscool> forgot which one
15:02:18  <Jeffroiscool> X connection to localhost:12.0 broken (explicit kill or server shutdown).
15:02:20  <Jeffroiscool> :/
15:02:28  <Jeffroiscool> Is there a server command line?
15:02:44  <dihedral>
15:02:46  <dihedral> :-)
15:02:54  <Rubidium> Jeffroiscool: what have you tried yourself to answer that question?
15:03:14  <Jeffroiscool> What question
15:03:21  <Jeffroiscool> so many questions here now :P
15:03:25  <dihedral> any of them
15:03:26  <Rubidium> i.e. have you tried '--help'?
15:03:42  <dihedral> i feel like i could predict that answer
15:03:50  <Rubidium> something that any unix binary should support
15:04:00  <Jeffroiscool> I'll try
15:04:24  <Jeffroiscool> Ah i see
15:04:28  <Jeffroiscool> whats the standard port?
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15:05:36  <Jeffroiscool> I want to have this server running dedicated
15:05:39  <Jeffroiscool> I see how
15:05:48  <Jeffroiscool> But i want it to be in the list and use the proper port
15:05:52  <dihedral> Jeffroiscool: follow this link:
15:05:58  <Jeffroiscool> I did
15:06:06  <Jeffroiscool> doesnt have much info on server
15:06:09  <dihedral> i can answer all questions with that link
15:06:11  <Jeffroiscool> at least not on the main page
15:06:24  <dihedral> there is 1. a search 2. a manual
15:06:37  <dihedral> do some homework
15:06:46  <Jeffroiscool> The manual is for people who dont know how to play -,-
15:07:07  <Gonozal_VIII> cfg
15:07:58  <Gonozal_VIII> server_port server_advertise in [network]
15:08:07  <Jeffroiscool> k
15:08:25  <Jeffroiscool> umm
15:08:29  <Jeffroiscool> sorry wheres the cfg xD
15:08:42  <Gonozal_VIII> game dir^^
15:08:52  <Jeffroiscool> I dont see it
15:08:57  <dihedral>
15:08:58  <Jeffroiscool> I just see the openttd binari
15:09:06  <Jeffroiscool> Yeah just found it dihedral
15:09:07  <Rubidium> ~/.openttd/
15:09:14  <Jeffroiscool> k
15:09:32  <Jeffroiscool> I need to run it once to get it right?
15:09:49  <dihedral> you tried before asking? :-P
15:09:54  <Jeffroiscool> Yes
15:09:58  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
15:10:01  <Jeffroiscool> -,-
15:10:11  <Rubidium> Jeffroiscool: no, you don't need to run it to get the cfg
15:10:12  <Jeffroiscool> I'm doing this with putty :P
15:10:21  <dihedral> ls ~/.openttd
15:10:34  <Jeffroiscool> Nope
15:10:40  <Jeffroiscool> only save and scenario
15:10:42  <Rubidium> touch ~/.openttd/openttd.cfg works too
15:10:43  <dihedral> then check the bin dir
15:10:50  <dihedral> LOL
15:10:54  <Jeffroiscool> only the bin and dir is there
15:11:30  <Jeffroiscool> cannot touch `/home/jeffro/openttd/openttd.cfg': Toegang geweigerd
15:11:31  <Jeffroiscool> lol
15:11:45  <Jeffroiscool> the config is not there
15:12:10  <dihedral> and what do you do if you dont have permission?
15:12:23  <Jeffroiscool> I havre
15:12:25  <Gonozal_VIII> did you compile the game?^^
15:12:35  <Jeffroiscool> se i have the config now
15:12:37  <Jeffroiscool> As I said
15:12:41  <dihedral> and i see no . infront of openttd
15:12:43  <Jeffroiscool> I need to run the binary at least once
15:12:52  <dihedral> /home/jeffro/.openttd/openttd.cfg
15:12:52  <Jeffroiscool> Or else it wont generate the cfg
15:12:58  <Jeffroiscool> Yes I know dihedral
15:13:06  <dihedral> and what does touch do?
15:13:23  <Jeffroiscool> But as I said it didn't generate until I made a dedicated server once
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15:13:54  <dihedral> well then you have it now
15:13:59  <dihedral> :-P
15:14:04  <Jeffroiscool> Hmm
15:14:07  <Jeffroiscool> Where is it on windows
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15:14:13  <Jeffroiscool> I have some good settings on my windows
15:14:13  <Jeffroiscool> :P
15:14:47  <dihedral> 'see through' 'open' and 'close':-P
15:14:57  <dihedral> windows are useless without :-P
15:15:20  <Jeffroiscool> lol
15:15:28  <Jeffroiscool> I know windows suck xD
15:15:38  <Jeffroiscool> But I have had a server on there
15:15:40  <Jeffroiscool> via the options
15:16:35  <Jeffroiscool> btw
15:16:44  <Jeffroiscool> what about compatible
15:16:49  <Jeffroiscool> I use svn
15:16:55  <dihedral> and?
15:16:59  <Jeffroiscool> but can everyone connect to my server?
15:17:05  <Jeffroiscool> Do they need the svn too?
15:17:19  <dihedral> i give up
15:17:26  <dihedral> Rubidium: i dont understand you
15:17:45  <Jeffroiscool> Jesus your acting like I'm a n00b -,-
15:17:50  <Gonozal_VIII> the game does all the connection stuff :-)
15:17:57  <Jeffroiscool> I had a server before
15:17:58  <Jeffroiscool> windows
15:18:03  <Jeffroiscool> I had 0.5.2
15:18:10  <Jeffroiscool> ppl with 0.5.3 couldnt connect
15:18:14  <Jeffroiscool> as they need same version
15:18:17  <dihedral> Jeffroiscool: you may call me dihedral :-)
15:18:28  <Jeffroiscool> thats why I am asking if it will cause trouble
15:18:28  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
15:18:41  <Jeffroiscool> as the svn is not 0.5.3 -,-
15:18:43  <dihedral> Jeffroiscool: you _always_ need the same version number
15:18:59  <dihedral> have you tried funning ./configure --help
15:19:01  <Jeffroiscool> So the others will need to use svn on their windows box to play ?
15:19:17  <Gonozal_VIII> ... same game version
15:19:52  <Jeffroiscool> -,-
15:20:03  <Jeffroiscool> I just want to know what the others need now
15:20:13  <dihedral> and you will feel very lonely if you have the latest revision and ./configure --recision=0.5.3
15:20:14  <Gonozal_VIII> you're thinking much too complicated
15:20:17  <Jeffroiscool> I downloaded svn on my server, standard options
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15:20:37  <Jeffroiscool> k
15:21:00  <dihedral> version checking is done by that string
15:21:03  <Jeffroiscool> WARNING: we do not advise you to use this setting
15:21:03  <Jeffroiscool> WARNING: in most cases it is not safe for network use
15:21:03  <Jeffroiscool> WARNING: USE WITH CAUTION!
15:21:07  <Jeffroiscool> lol
15:21:15  <dihedral> yes - we all know those lines
15:21:20  <dihedral> what's wrong with them
15:21:21  <Jeffroiscool> ok
15:21:29  <Jeffroiscool> I need to remake it now right
15:21:31  <Jeffroiscool> xD
15:21:33  <Jeffroiscool> long process
15:21:37  <dihedral> no it's not
15:22:00  <dihedral> building xorg is a longish process :-D
15:22:15  <Jeffroiscool> :D
15:22:20  <Jeffroiscool> Ok
15:22:30  <Jeffroiscool> but still where the hell is the config.cfg on my windows -,-
15:22:50  <Gonozal_VIII> openttd.cfg
15:22:59  <Jeffroiscool> yeah that :P
15:23:33  <dihedral> hit win+f
15:23:37  <dihedral> :-D
15:23:41  <Jeffroiscool> thats SLOW
15:23:46  <dihedral> look in MyDocuments/OpenTTD
15:23:47  <Gonozal_VIII> look in "my documents" if there is an openttd folder
15:23:49  <Jeffroiscool> I have like 4 terabyto of files :P
15:24:15  <Jeffroiscool> nope no openttd folder
15:24:26  <dihedral> then check the folder where the binary is in
15:24:45  <dihedral> if you ran servers before you should at least know where you keep your config
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15:25:32  <Jeffroiscool> No i did ingame :P
15:25:36  <Jeffroiscool> But I found it
15:25:44  <Jeffroiscool> Woah
15:25:45  * dihedral claps his hands
15:25:52  <Jeffroiscool> can i put more max_companies
15:26:11  <Jeffroiscool> more then 8
15:26:22  <dihedral> did you search the wiki for that?
15:26:27  <dihedral> or perhaps the tt-forums?
15:27:35  <Jeffroiscool> No i didnt searchb
15:28:13  <Jeffroiscool> p to 10 players can participate in a multiplayer game. You can only open up 8 companies though
15:28:22  <Jeffroiscool> Is it possible to make that more in the config
15:28:58  <dihedral> READ
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15:33:31  <Jeffroiscool> Can someone check if my server is up?
15:33:37  <Jeffroiscool> I can't I'm at school :)
15:33:43  <Jeffroiscool> Jeffro's server
15:33:54  <dihedral> can you visit
15:34:01  <Jeffroiscool> k ill try
15:34:28  <Jeffroiscool> don't see it
15:34:31  <Jeffroiscool> but it is running
15:34:32  <dihedral> well then
15:34:45  <dihedral> it's just not 'advertised'
15:35:11  <Jeffroiscool> [network]
15:35:13  <Jeffroiscool> max_join_time = 500
15:35:15  <Jeffroiscool> pause_on_join = true
15:35:17  <Jeffroiscool> server_bind_ip =
15:35:19  <Jeffroiscool> server_port = 3979
15:35:21  <Jeffroiscool> server_advertise = true
15:35:29  <Jeffroiscool> also forwarded port in router
15:35:32  <Jeffroiscool> should work
15:35:41  <gono_ping_timeout> i guess your school blocks ports
15:35:42  <Rubidium> Jeffroiscool: what port did you forward?
15:36:46  <Jeffroiscool> 3979
15:37:00  <dihedral> tcp or udp?
15:37:06  * dihedral likes the 'or'
15:37:12  <Jeffroiscool> botj
15:37:13  <Jeffroiscool> :)
15:37:17  <Jeffroiscool> its both standard
15:37:19  <Jeffroiscool> I use dd-wrt
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15:38:09  <Jeffroiscool> wtf
15:38:12  <Jeffroiscool> its offline now
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15:38:34  <Jeffroiscool> its quering now
15:38:42  <Jeffroiscool> [net] [udp] advertising to master server
15:38:59  <Jeffroiscool> YAY
15:39:01  <Jeffroiscool> its in the list
15:39:05  <Jeffroiscool> Thank you for your help guys
15:39:07  * dihedral claps his hands
15:39:11  <Jeffroiscool> :)\
15:39:20  <Jeffroiscool> I made it a sh now
15:39:30  <dihedral> with screen?
15:39:34  <Jeffroiscool> I need to have a website where i can execute sh's :P
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15:41:19  <Jeffroiscool> omg
15:41:26  <Jeffroiscool> I need one option gujys
15:41:28  <Jeffroiscool> just one :(
15:41:35  <Jeffroiscool> the map is artic now
15:41:41  <Jeffroiscool> Can I change it to the default?
15:41:42  <dihedral> did you read the wiki
15:41:48  <Jeffroiscool> YES I RAD IT DAMNIT XD
15:41:57  <dihedral> stop shouting at me
15:42:10  <Jeffroiscool> -,-"
15:42:16  <dihedral>
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15:42:36  <Rubidium>  /ignore Jeffroiscool
15:42:41  <Jeffroiscool> :(
15:42:44  <Jeffroiscool> Why ignore me
15:44:33  <dihedral> because you are acting like a complete noob who is seemingly unable to read and/or search a wiki page that sofar has been referenced to him 3 times
15:45:17  <Jeffroiscool> No I'm stating I don't want to read the wiki for every little option I need you guys allready know
15:45:42  <dihedral> what on earth do you think the wiki is there for??
15:46:19  <Jeffroiscool> For people who are too dumb to come on IRC
15:46:19  <Jeffroiscool> :)
15:46:55  <dihedral> Rubidium: you feel like op'ing yourself?
15:46:57  <dihedral> :-P
15:47:14  <Rubidium> dihedral: just ignore him. It's much quieter now ;)
15:47:21  <dihedral> LOL
15:47:56  <Jeffroiscool> Ok I read the wiki
15:48:03  <Jeffroiscool> it stated change landscape
15:48:09  <Jeffroiscool> I changed landscare
15:48:15  <Jeffroiscool> Its still artic
15:48:23  <Jeffroiscool> even after rebooting server
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15:49:24  <Gonozal_VIII> [gameopt] landscape = temperate
15:50:36  <Belugas> Jeffroiscool, the idea of pointing you the wiki is to make it so you'll be able to find all the stuff that you need.  Some of us are actually working real jobs.  And may not be able to answer you.  So, if you know where to look for answers, you will KNOW, ASSIMILATE the knowledge faster then just applying the response from somebody else
15:51:07  <Jeffroiscool> Yes I understand
15:51:20  <Belugas> like... give a fish to someone, he'll eat for a day.  Show him fishing, he'll eat for the rest of his life :)
15:51:21  <Jeffroiscool> But not everything is founded easy on the wiki
15:51:28  <Rotonen> and most likely people will still just paste your questions relevant terms into the wiki search anyway
15:51:39  <Jeffroiscool> The wiki is now much more pointed to players
15:51:44  <Jeffroiscool> And not to server hosters
15:52:01  <Jeffroiscool> So you will have to search with more trouble.
15:52:20  <Jeffroiscool> If I know people are in this channel I can just ask how to do that becuase they learnt of experiance
15:52:35  <Jeffroiscool> and I know i just made 2/3 typos xD
15:52:45  <Gonozal_VIII> you can even launch the game, make the settings there and they are in the config
15:52:55  <Jeffroiscool> I know
15:52:58  <Jeffroiscool> One problem
15:53:11  <dihedral> one answer
15:53:15  <dihedral> :-)
15:56:12  <Jeffroiscool> oops
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15:56:19  <Jeffroiscool> I just got logged out by some classroom faggots
15:56:25  <Jeffroiscool> remote log off -,-
15:56:38  <Jeffroiscool> But I ment one problem
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15:58:05  <dihedral> moin
15:58:07  <dihedral> ha
15:58:13  <dihedral> beat you to it fjb
15:58:42  <fjb> I wasn't at the computer the last half hour.
16:00:06  <dihedral> aw - you've gone and popped my bobble
16:00:28  <fjb> What bobble?
16:00:48  <dihedral> that i had beat you to saying 'moin'
16:00:48  <dihedral> :-P
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16:02:05  <fjb> Hm, I said moin at 15:56
16:02:09  <fjb> :-)
16:02:35  <dihedral> :-(
16:02:47  <dihedral> hello Belugas by the way :-)
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16:24:36  <De_Ghosty> hi guys
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16:26:30  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm i can't edit the lng file without the game ignoring it then?
16:30:05  <BigBB> right
16:30:20  <BigBB> edit the *.txt file and compile
16:30:49  <Gonozal_VIII> ah ok... thx
16:32:14  <BigBB> but you need the new *.lng file and the new binary (e.g. for win the openttd.exe) to work
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16:32:47  <Gonozal_VIII> it writes the checksum into the exe? why that?
16:34:04  <Gonozal_VIII> wouldn't make sense to write it into the file itself... but why is there even a checksum?... but ok... doesn't matter... thanks :-)
16:37:47  <dihedral> pink: 301, grey: 263, mauve:387
16:37:54  <dihedral> where can i get the rest of these values from
16:38:43  <dihedral> i found them by trial and error :-P
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16:41:26  <Gonozal_VIII> is that some kind of weird rpg clone thing?
16:42:14  <Gonozal_VIII> :S
16:42:35  <BigBB> dihedral, for what, text colour?
16:42:52  <dihedral> game chat
16:43:08  <dihedral>
16:43:34  <dihedral> this is useful when the server is wrapped by autopilot and is sitting in an irc channel
16:43:48  <dihedral> then one can differentiate between spectator chat and chat from irc
16:44:01  <Gonozal_VIII> aaah rgb not rpg^^
16:44:06  <Gonozal_VIII> <-- stupid
16:44:09  * dihedral agrees
16:44:12  <dihedral> :-D
16:44:56  <Gonozal_VIII> i realised something was wrong after i wrote it but it took me a while to figure out what^^
16:46:13  <dihedral> BigBB: you have a hint for me where i could find more values?
16:46:26  <dihedral> you will not want to know how i got hold of those :-P
16:46:57  <BigBB> I'm not sure, I have a look to see if I'm right
16:47:44  <dihedral> idealy i would like that color to be defineable in the patch settings
16:48:10  <dihedral> so one can change it 'on the fly' and will not have to compile it all again just for a different color :-P
16:48:14  <dihedral> as that is just nasty
16:49:56  <BigBB> dihedral, try the enum TextColour or the enum above it in gfx.h. I have atm. no time to look if it work...
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16:51:53  <dihedral> thank you i'll have a look there
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16:58:15  <dihedral> BigBB: that looks good, i'll have a try later on this evening
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17:07:41  <hylje> loco loco loco loco loco
17:08:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> loco is spanish for weird
17:08:57  <Gonozal_VIII> 7 engines? nice
17:10:24  <Gonozal_VIII> uni... back in 3
17:10:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> 3 minutes?
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17:27:19  <Jeffroiscool> Does TTD has any log file for errors?
17:32:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, if you redirect console output into a file
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17:44:59  <Wolf01> hello
17:50:59  <exe> hello
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18:53:05  <dihedral> @seen Bjarni
18:53:08  <DorpsGek> dihedral: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 22 hours, 1 minute, and 3 seconds ago: <Bjarni> ok
18:53:35  <hylje> ok
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19:14:17  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r11488 /trunk/ (13 files in 4 dirs):
19:14:17  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Spilt the random functions out to seperate file
19:14:17  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Make the mersenne twister more readable
19:14:17  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Unify the seeding process of random
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19:15:09  <hylje> so you spilled the random functions off :P
19:15:36  <dihedral> 'you' is not on irc as far as i can tell
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19:16:53  <hylje> liek i arse myself to check that kind of stuff
19:18:49  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r11489 /trunk/src/core/ (random_func.cpp random_func.hpp): -Fix r11488: Somehow the code was added multiple times
19:22:59  <dihedral> no - you just like talking - no matter if the addressed person is around or not :-D
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19:51:26  <ln->
19:54:21  <dihedral> LOL ln
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20:16:32  <MaSch> Hi
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20:18:20  <MaSch> i tryed to compile openttd 0.6  (nightly) with ssh (my friend is a new user and don't know how to to that, so i try ^^).. now, by ./configure there is a warning: WARNING: no video driver found, building dedicated only .. anyone know how to solve this?
20:18:56  <MaSch> apt said that libsdl is already the newest version but configure says "checking SDL... not found"
20:19:09  <Prof_Frink> MaSch: Do you have libsdl-dev
20:19:33  <MaSch> okay.. dev . ^^ i dont think so.. lets wait
20:19:58  <MaSch> installing.. thanks a lot ^^
20:20:03  <MaSch> i dont like ubuntu >.<
20:20:40  <Rotonen> well usually you don't want the compiletime stuff from the packages..
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20:21:09  <MaSch> on gentoo, everything is a little bit different ^^
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20:23:43  <SpComb> Logs: (old: )
20:23:43  <Gonozal_VIII> !logs
20:24:10  <Sacro> is there not a deb already?
20:24:20  <Sacro> usually blathijs makes thenm
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20:27:12  <Gonozal_VIII> 19:10:46 < Eddi|zuHause2> 3 minutes? <-- hours
20:27:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: well, you should clarify that... because if unspecified it always means minutes
20:28:41  <Gonozal_VIII> hmm wouldn't make sense to go to university for 3 minutes... but ok^^
20:29:20  <fjb> Some people call that studying. :-)
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20:31:39  <UnderBuilder> will be good a simcity-style game based on the GUI of OTTD
20:32:37  <Gonozal_VIII> will be or would be?
20:32:56  <UnderBuilder> would
20:33:04  <hylje> a simcity-like game that is compatible with ottd
20:33:06  <hylje> ;)
20:33:12  <KaareMai> I've thought alot about making a clone of The Settlers 1 based on openttd
20:33:24  <Belugas> wold be good a brand new game style based on a brand new gui
20:33:29  <KaareMai> Would be a nice starting point to grasp all the basics of such an implementation
20:33:50  <hylje> KaareMai: you might want to poke around with pygame
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20:35:04  <KaareMai> hylje, sounds interesting :)
20:35:23  <UnderBuilder> or why not create a series of free simulation games like sim*, theme* or tycoon* ones
20:35:50  <KaareMai> I've figured out 80% of the graphic file format, then theres the sound. But it all uses the same structure in the files so shouldn't be that hard.
20:35:57  <hylje> KaareMai: how experienced are you in programming?
20:37:26  <KaareMai> Well, i make software for micro controllers at work, some VB6 (lol), C(++) and some C# apps,  but thats a far cry from understanding how to create a game :)
20:37:52  <KaareMai> but my primary software knowledge is assembly for very tiny microcontrollers
20:39:26  <hylje> sounds pretty good for a base
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20:40:25  <UnderBuilder> who agrees me that there would be a serie of simulation games, like Maxis did with sim, bullfrog with theme and microprose with tycoon?
20:40:45  <KaareMai> Yeah, well the problem for me is not so much to understand C programming, but more the larger concepts of creating such a game as openttd. Where to begin? How to manage pathfinding and all that stuff
20:40:46  <hylje> UnderBuilder: small indie (open source) gaems?
20:41:11  <hylje> KaareMai: either start poking around about openttd and other projects
20:41:24  <hylje> KaareMai: or roll your own, i still recommend python with pygame
20:41:26  <UnderBuilder> for example... openttd + opencity should start the series
20:41:50  <hylje> ottdlib
20:43:17  <UnderBuilder> why not a more creative name like... * master (transport master, city master, park master, etc.)
20:43:42  <hylje> one should get onto the series first
20:43:52  <hylje> e.g. fork ottd and start hacking it
20:43:54  <UnderBuilder> you can choose the name of the series
20:44:17  <Belugas> there are already a few games about transport been built, or started to be built.  why start another one?
20:45:15  <KaareMai> back
20:46:21  <UnderBuilder> better explained with an example, one step to introduce this is creating a GUI library for it
20:46:50  <hylje> ottdlib
20:47:22  <glx> UnderBuilder: it's already a pain to modify a window in ottd, and you want to use this in other games?
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20:48:15  <SmatZ> theme hospital was nice, too
20:48:25  <valhallasw> simtower \o/
20:48:50  <hylje> glx: well i dont think a better/improved gui for ottd would hurt either
20:48:53  <Sacro> lets combine the lot
20:48:57  <Sacro> hylje: winforms!
20:49:03  <hylje> it's no easy task either way
20:49:09  <hylje> Sacro: quiet you
20:49:16  <Sacro> using Windows.Forms;
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20:49:56  <KaareMai> Nah, one of the sharms with openttd is the distinct TTD interface :) It must not go too far away from the original game in my opinion
20:50:32  <hylje> yeah well.. the backend being a pain or not won't change that
20:51:27  <UnderBuilder> I don't mean using OTTD's GUI, I mean using for example opencity's one
20:51:52  <UnderBuilder> the 0.0.5 version one is great
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21:33:06  <Wolf01> no, not again... forgot to click on random trees widget while dynamite was selected :(
21:33:27  <Wolf01> a piece of railway disappeared magically
21:34:03  <Bjarni> not magically...
21:34:05  <Bjarni> it blew up
21:34:17  * Bjarni arrests Wolf01 for railroad sabotage
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21:34:38  <KaareMai> lol wolf01 i know the feeling
21:35:01  <KaareMai> i did that today on a large trainstation, then the LA wouldn't allow me to build it again ):(
21:35:19  <Wolf01> but i have a patch!
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21:37:28  <dihedral> Bjarni:
21:37:48  <dihedral> i cannot install os x 10.3.7 on the external drive... will not let me what ever i do
21:38:40  <Rexxars> install freebsd instead "ho ho ho"
21:39:03  * dihedral slaps Rexxars
21:39:05  <Gonozal_VIII> if it was about windows i would say boot with a startdisk that supports the external drive
21:39:15  <dihedral> and where exactly would that help trying to debug a compile issue in 10.3?
21:39:41  <Rexxars> well osx is built on bsd so ;)
21:39:59  <KaareMai> Nej, men kunne jo godt ha vÊret
21:40:03  <dihedral> yes great
21:40:06  <Bjarni> <Rexxars> install freebsd instead "ho ho ho" <--- this is for testing OTTD on 10.3.x because somebody else uses it. It's not like dihedral intent to use it as main OS ;)
21:40:14  <Rexxars> oh ok ;)
21:40:21  * Bjarni slaps KaareMai
21:40:25  <dihedral> i said that
21:40:27  <dihedral> !
21:40:28  <dihedral> kinda
21:40:37  <KaareMai> sorry, should have been on msn
21:40:50  <Bjarni> KaareMai: some people in here wants the written language in here to be English
21:40:50  <Rexxars> yeah but bjarni explained it better :p
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21:41:41  <Rexxars> its funny how easy danish is to read and how impossible it is to understand when you are talking the language
21:41:48  <Bjarni> dihedral: well... maybe the IDE<->USB bridge isn't bootable... you could test if it accepts a newer OS (not to install it, but to test if it accepts the drive)
21:42:25  <dihedral> well - i cannot 'boot' from it either way
21:42:36  <Bjarni> <Rexxars> its funny how easy danish is to read and how impossible it is to understand when you are talking the language <-- that really depends on who is talking
21:42:45  <dihedral> as i cannot even select it as 'boot device' for the next restart
21:43:12  <dihedral> dihedral>	and where exactly would that help trying to debug a compile issue in 10.3? <--- what is there to be said better?
21:43:16  <Bjarni> you can't select it as a boot device unless it contains a bootable system
21:43:39  * dihedral digs up 10.4 install dvd
21:43:40  <Gonozal_VIII> in my bios i can
21:43:49  <dihedral> there is no bios
21:43:54  <dihedral> there is open firmware :-D
21:44:21  <Bjarni> it might not even be a bios/firmware issue
21:44:32  <dihedral> i dont think it is
21:44:43  <Bjarni> I can boot from one USB disk, but not another one even if I install the very same system on both
21:44:50  <Gonozal_VIII> but my old system didn't support usb boot
21:45:00  <Bjarni> this is due to how the IDE<->USB bridge is made
21:45:02  * dihedral restarts his powerbook
21:45:14  <Bjarni> funny enough it's the cheap one that's bootable
21:45:33  <KaareMai> Is it a known bug that trains sometimes doesnt follow the signal rules of presignals when arraving at a station that they don't have in their orders list?
21:45:53  <dihedral> use 2 way signals
21:46:31  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't know how that mac stuff works but can't you start the installation while running another os?
21:47:03  <KaareMai> Well i mean if you build a two-track terminus and place two way pre-signal at the entrance and one incomming presignal at the arrival track, and one normal for the exit track, then sometimes the train doesnt stop at the first presignal even if its read, instead it drives in and blocks the exit for the other train
21:47:15  <KaareMai> this happens if it arrives at a station when its lost for example
21:47:20  <KaareMai> then it doesnt follow "the rules"
21:47:42  <Gonozal_VIII> they are not supposed to pass red signals ever...
21:47:48  <KaareMai> but they do
21:47:58  <dihedral> KaareMai: screenshot :-)
21:47:59  <dihedral> save
21:48:03  <dihedral> version
21:48:08  <dihedral> grf's?
21:48:20  <dihedral> patches?
21:48:31  <dihedral> Bjarni: no luck
21:48:45  <Gonozal_VIII> maybe the signal was green for a split second and you didn't notice?
21:48:50  <dihedral> 'Mac OS X cannot start up from this valume'
21:49:10  <KaareMai> 0.5.x nightlies spanning over several different nightlies, no grf, no patches
21:49:33  <Bjarni> dihedral: then the hardware isn't bootable
21:49:41  <KaareMai> but Gonozal_VIII, how can it turn green if both platforms are occupied
21:50:04  <Bjarni> depending on the computer itself USB might not be bootable at all. For some reason Apple added USB booting really late
21:50:04  <KaareMai> if both platforms are occupied, it will ignore the pre-signal and drive in and block the train
21:50:21  <KaareMai> when i make the train leave and another arrives that is supposed to arrive, then it follows the rules
21:50:22  <Gonozal_VIII> don't know how exactly your layout is... but if it is as you described it shouldn't happen
21:50:25  <Bjarni> firewire booting works on all macs with firewire though
21:50:35  <dihedral> it's a 12" G4
21:50:41  <KaareMai> its just a standard two terminal terminus
21:50:47  <KaareMai> let me find a screenie :)
21:51:06  <dihedral> 3 years old :-(
21:51:16  * dihedral pats this power book
21:51:26  <Bjarni> I can beat that
21:51:31  <KaareMai>
21:51:35  <KaareMai> Just like that one
21:51:37  <Bjarni> my powerbook is 11 years old
21:51:39  <KaareMai> It works perfectly
21:52:03  <Bjarni> that one can't boot from USB either :P
21:52:14  <KaareMai> but sometimes it doesnt. It seems that the problem happens if the train is lost or arrives at a station that it doesnt have in its order list
21:52:19  <dihedral> KaareMai: i see no trains
21:52:23  <dihedral> :-)
21:52:31  <KaareMai> No its just from the wiki page :)
21:52:38  <dihedral> well wonderful
21:52:47  <Gonozal_VIII> you don't have an exit signal where the normal should be, do you?
21:52:52  <KaareMai> No
21:52:55  <Gonozal_VIII> ok...
21:53:01  <dihedral> just give us a screenshot from something else will help us know whats going on in your game!!
21:53:07  <KaareMai> They are completely identical to the one on the screenshot
21:53:12  <KaareMai> okay lol
21:53:25  <Bjarni>  <KaareMai> They are completely identical to the one on the screenshot <-- not 100% because then it would work
21:53:33  <dihedral> :-P
21:53:48  <KaareMai> bjarni, thats like saying theres no bugs in openttd :P
21:54:02  <KaareMai> while flyspray says something else :D
21:54:14  <dihedral> KaareMai: it's not
21:54:25  <SmatZ> KaareMai: are both platforms full?
21:54:36  <dihedral> apparently they are
21:54:37  <KaareMai> yes
21:54:37  <Gonozal_VIII> that's a standard station... lots of people use that... there is no bug in that by itself
21:54:42  <KaareMai> both platforms full
21:54:52  <KaareMai> all trains that arrives follows the rules and do not block
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21:54:58  <Bjarni>  <KaareMai> bjarni, thats like saying theres no bugs in openttd :P <-- no. Even if there are bugs it should behave the very same way with the very same layout even if it's buggy
21:55:10  <KaareMai> but when a train that is lost arrives then sometimes it drives further in even though the light is red
21:55:22  <KaareMai> it happens very rarely
21:55:32  <dihedral> my word
21:55:40  <SmatZ> KaareMai: do you have a screenshot, or better a save?
21:55:44  <dihedral> give a screenshot and a save and the version number
21:56:15  <SmatZ> KaareMai: similiar situation may happen, if platforms are not all occupied
21:56:21  <SmatZ> but if they are...
21:56:59  <dihedral> he probably has combo at station and exit on track out and pre on track in
21:57:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> if a train is lost, it is a bug in your layout...
21:57:59  <Gonozal_VIII> exit at the way out would be enough to cause that
21:58:15  <Gonozal_VIII> but he said he hasn't
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21:58:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> we are still waiting at the screenshot...
21:58:49  <dihedral> Gonozal_VIII: sinse when has a claim that a 'user' has not done something been enough without proof?
21:59:04  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
21:59:45  <Gonozal_VIII> KaareMai? do you know how to make a screenshot?
21:59:48  <dihedral> yes - bill gates? you have a bug in your software, my thunderbird cannot connect to the mail server... oh - i need to configure my adsl router?
22:00:05  <KaareMai>
22:00:32  <dihedral> i spy with my little eye - one free track
22:00:35  <Bjarni> fucking Swede
22:00:38  <KaareMai> this game uses some grfs (ttrs3, some stations)
22:00:41  <Bjarni> you drive on the left side o_O
22:00:41  <Gonozal_VIII> a bit hidden.. but looks like a normal signal
22:00:48  <Gonozal_VIII> so signals should be fine
22:00:55  <KaareMai> yeah i do bjarni :D
22:01:02  <KaareMai> thats how i started and now its just a habit
22:01:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> err... in our area that is called more something like "holy swede" :p
22:01:38  <KaareMai> i cant capture the bug right now as it happens very rarely, it may take hours before i see it again
22:01:47  <dihedral> [23:00]	<Bjarni>	fucking Swede <--- LOL
22:01:48  <Gonozal_VIII> but you should have made a screenshot of the actual bug, not a standard situation...
22:01:51  <Bjarni> I don't have a habit when it comes to driving side... I switch depending on the game
22:02:10  <Gonozal_VIII> i prefer right
22:02:11  <KaareMai> I will Gonozal_VIII as soon as i see it again :)
22:02:24  <Bjarni> well I use right side driving if it really doesn't matter but I sometimes do some track optimisation based on driving side
22:02:42  <KaareMai> And about the lost trains: It keeps saying that when i let trains drive over very large networks and long distances
22:02:47  <dihedral> Bjarni: i switch driving sides depending on the country i am in
22:02:49  <KaareMai> however they always find their way anyway
22:02:56  <Bjarni> I picked left side when testing the Japanese GRF set to make it more "real"
22:02:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> worse than that he is driving on wrong side, is, that his signals are on the wrong side for driving on the wrong side, and two wrongs do not automatically make a right
22:03:11  <KaareMai> lol
22:03:34  <dihedral> ;-)
22:03:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> in any case, signals should be on the outside
22:03:51  * Bjarni imagines KaareMai ordering steam locomotives for his track layout
22:03:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> there's even a patch setting for that...
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22:04:15  <ben_goodger> good evening, humanoids
22:04:20  <Bjarni> "I drive in the left track". "ok, then we will give you left side driving engines so the driver can see the signals"
22:04:25  <dihedral> KaareMai: hint: save games every month, and capture the event :-)
22:04:32  <dihedral> and specify a date with the save
22:04:33  <Bjarni> and then you are screwed with your signal placements :P
22:04:47  <Gonozal_VIII> doesn't the driver sit in the middle?
22:04:55  <KaareMai> Well, it's a game running on my server, and the players get pretty annoyed of the long saving times
22:05:01  <KaareMai> each autosave is 4MB
22:05:03  <dihedral> Gonozal_VIII: perhaps that depends on the loc and the driver
22:05:11  <fjb> I saw lost trains and trains which don't have a route at all (escaped from a depot) waiting in front of a red platform entry signal while the platform next to that one was free. There defenitly is a bug somewhere.
22:05:14  <dihedral> but i beleive the driver sits either at the front or rear :-D
22:05:15  <KaareMai> the mouse lags like hell just by moving it over the openttd window
22:05:16  <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: not on steam locomotives. The fireman shovel coal in the middle
22:05:29  <KaareMai> exactly fjb
22:05:32  <KaareMai> i've seen that too
22:05:45  <ben_goodger> this is not a good time to ask about routefinding algorithms?
22:05:46  <dihedral> reproduceable?
22:05:50  <Bjarni> the driver is placed to the far left/right to be able to see around the boiler
22:05:51  <KaareMai> its like they stop following signal rules if the arrive at a station that is not in their orders
22:05:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb: that is no bug, a train without route can take a random (as in undefined) track
22:06:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> it may or may not take the red light
22:06:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> in any way, a lost train is a user bug
22:06:58  <KaareMai> but if it has two possible lines in front of it, the one is red the other is green ,then it should take the green one?
22:07:00  <fjb> When it happens, it usually happens at the same stations. Best way to find it will be to start some trains without orders.
22:07:02  <KaareMai> sounds logical to me :)
22:07:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> you cannot guess what you want it to do
22:07:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> (from pathfinder view, it does not know wether the next signal is green or not)
22:08:06  <KaareMai> O.o
22:08:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> the pathfinder also does not know which exit signals are an option
22:08:46  <Gonozal_VIII> you cannot calculate penalties without knowing the way :-)
22:08:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> it only locally checks wether the current tile is a signal, and then sets a penalty for this branch
22:09:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> it does that for every current end point
22:09:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> and for the end point with the lowest current penalty, it checks the next tile
22:09:20  <KaareMai> That sounds like an explanation to my problem
22:09:41  <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause2: i thought yapf looked 10 signals ahead
22:10:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> dihedral: yes, but only if it actually encounters 10 signals
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22:10:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> if the pathfinder runs into a dead end, it assigns infinite penalty for that route
22:10:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> if no route exists, all routes are dead ends
22:10:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> so all routes have infinite penalty
22:10:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> so it can choose a random one
22:11:30  <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: <-- this is the view of the driver if he is located in the left side. As you can see it wouldn't make much sense to be in the middle ;)
22:11:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> the only alternative to that is to not let the train go anywhere at all
22:11:58  <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause2: nice - thanks for that :-)
22:12:02  <dihedral> good to know
22:12:29  <Bjarni> (I just uploaded this picture to show it to you guys... it's from my personal archive)
22:12:30  <KaareMai> bjarni, that driver would love my rail system
22:12:31  <Gonozal_VIII> not much too see from inside there
22:12:32  <KaareMai> :D
22:12:46  <KaareMai> "Full speed ahead, i don't care"
22:13:20  <KaareMai> I don't think i can ever change sides now, would confuse the hell out of me
22:13:27  <Gonozal_VIII> if there is a right curve ahead, you can't even see signals or other trains...
22:13:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> Bjarni: err... but that engine is running backwards (you see the wagon attached to it), shouldn't you look the other direction?
22:14:32  <dihedral> i am off to bed - cu
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22:14:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> dihedral: the pathfinder (in the current design) cannot handle turning around in dead ends, because it would need to know the train length to check wether a switch after turning could actually be taken
22:15:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> it can handle turning around in depots, though
22:15:38  <Bjarni> <-- this is basically what the middle is all about
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22:16:06  <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause2> Bjarni: err... but that engine is running backwards (you see the wagon attached to it), shouldn't you look the other direction? <-- the engine was doing switching operations when I took the picture
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22:16:10  <Gonozal_VIII> it isn't very realistic to let trains turn around at dead ends with the engine flipping from one side to the other anyways
22:16:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, but until you implement shunting and turntables, you should deal with that limitation :p
22:17:16  <Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> it isn't very realistic to let trains turn around at dead ends with the engine flipping from one side to the other anyways <-- no, but damn I would have liked to be able to do that in real life at one time.... one switch turned out to be temporally unusable
22:17:36  <Bjarni> which resulted in a train on the end of the line with no way of getting the engine to the other end >_<
22:18:18  <Gonozal_VIII> would be nice to have that in openttd too :-) has to run backwards very slow then...
22:18:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> you mean temporarily, unless you want to team up with ln- as a trekky :p
22:18:26  <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, but until you implement shunting and turntables, you should deal with that limitation :p <-- there is no need for turntables... tender engines can reverse better than you might expect
22:18:50  <Bjarni> damn that spelling thingie >_<
22:19:03  <Bjarni> picked the wrong word when I made a typo
22:19:45  <Bjarni> btw no comments about the last links to pics I just posted?
22:20:08  <Bjarni> you have to enjoy them or I will stop uploading
22:20:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> what kind of comments do you expect?
22:20:23  <Bjarni> well... cool wouldn't be fitting :D
22:20:26  <Gonozal_VIII> it's a hole with fire in it^^
22:20:46  <Gonozal_VIII> not that impressive
22:21:02  <Bjarni> you can see the pipes in the boiler
22:21:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have bigger problems right now...
22:21:21  <Bjarni> I bet you haven't seen that on a steam engine that's on before
22:21:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> i need 6GB space for recordings, but i only have 4GB free, and my burner is broken, and the new one i ordered did not arrive yet
22:22:47  <Gonozal_VIII> there are 500gb external hds for less than 100 euro available :-)
22:22:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> but not within the next 2 hours
22:23:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> and the burner costs only 20€
22:23:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> and 100DVDs are way less than 100€
22:23:57  <Gonozal_VIII> + dvds + lots of discs everywhere that get lost or break
22:26:51  <Bjarni> IRC never fails to amaze me. I show you a picture of a hot hole and you guys ignore it... imagine what would get out of such a picture
22:27:04  <Gonozal_VIII> hehehe
22:29:18  <Bjarni> at one time there was visitors in the engine to see it and a buy asked "can I touch it".... TOUCH THE FIREBOX WITH BURNING COAL INSIDE??????????????????????????????
22:29:26  <Bjarni> it's kind of hot
22:29:54  <Gonozal_VIII> so you let him?
22:30:13  <Bjarni> not really
22:30:20  <Bjarni> somebody else stopped him
22:30:25  <Gonozal_VIII> best way of learning
22:30:26  <Bjarni> the fireman and his parents
22:30:46  <Bjarni> while the crew were surprised at the question, the parents were frightened
22:31:28  <Bjarni> you can easily burn yourself to a state where you end up at the hospital
22:32:14  <Bjarni> somehow I think there would be problems if people are injured like that
22:32:43  <Bjarni> just think of railroad crossings... it's a problem for the railroads when they hit somebody who tries to cross when they are activated
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22:33:44  <Bjarni> there is a case where somebody jumped in front of a car on the freeway (he was hidden until the car was really close) and the driver was fined for killing this guy
22:34:09  <Gonozal_VIII> they always want somebody to blame
22:34:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> "fined" != "convicted"
22:34:12  <Bjarni> because even though he was below the speed limit, it was still too fast because he was unable to stop when a person showed up
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22:34:44  <Bjarni>  <Eddi|zuHause2> "fined" != "convicted" <-- he refused to pay so it ended up in court, so he ended up getting convicted
22:34:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> you can get fined for being involved in an accident, because accidents are a violation of the road rules
22:35:38  <Bjarni> but... to be fined because somebody goes to the middle of the freeway, hides behind a pillar on a bridge and waits for a car so he can commit suicide...
22:36:01  <Bjarni> the whole idea of committing suicide is to ensure that some random car can't avoid you
22:36:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> sure, the road rule's first article says that you should drive in a way that you avoid any kind of accident
22:36:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> if you violate that article, you can get fined for it
22:36:39  <Bjarni> but it also says that you aren't allowed to drive so slowly that you block traffic
22:36:46  <Gonozal_VIII> it wasn't an accident
22:37:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> "accident" meaning "unexpected interference of the road flow"
22:37:53  <Bjarni> that happened today. Some lorry broke and dropped the cargo all over the road
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22:38:07  <Bjarni> it was a full sewer cleaning car >_<
22:38:14  <Bjarni> nice way of blocking the road
22:38:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> note that he was not fined for killing the person, but for not being able to stop before hitting him
22:38:26  <Gonozal_VIII> i can't see how you could avoid any random interference
22:38:49  <Bjarni> that's like being able to predict that a bird will show up out of nowhere at high speed
22:39:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: you can't, that's why it's just a set of rules, not a set of laws
22:39:10  <Bjarni> we aren't jedi knights... we can't see everything before it happens
22:39:50  * Bjarni wants to use Japanese laws when it comes to road/railroad crossings
22:40:09  <Bjarni> if a car and a train hits each other then it's always the car driver that is to blame nomatter what
22:40:19  <Bjarni> even if the crossing is out of order
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22:40:58  <Gonozal_VIII> nobody would drive say... 10 km/h through every bridge on the highway because somebody could jump out from behind a pillar...
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22:41:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: exactly, you can't follow all rules, so breaking them is not as serious as breaking a law
22:42:26  <Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> nobody would drive say... 10 km/h through every bridge on the highway because somebody could jump out from behind a pillar... <-- well... he was fined for not doing so
22:42:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> but if you break a rule, and someting actually happens, you need to expect to get fined for it
22:42:45  <Bjarni> but he would be fined for doing so if nobody was waiting for him
22:44:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> other example: you have precedence over the road from left, but someone comes from left violating the precedence, you have a straight lane ahead, and next to you is a pavewalk with no people on it
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22:44:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> you have two options:
22:44:41  <Bjarni> I saw a lorry driver on TV because he had killed somebody and he was really upset because it turned out that this guy was committed to a mental hospital because he tried to commit suicide several times but he was free to go as he liked so he found somebody in there and said "let's do it together". The lorry only hit one of them
22:44:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> you can go on straight, insisting on your right of way, causing an accident
22:45:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> or you can break the rule of staying on the road, go on the pavewalk, and avoid an accident
22:45:33  <Bjarni> people generally pick the latter often without checking if it's free or not
22:45:48  <Bjarni> because then they will not get physically hurt themselves
22:45:58  <Gonozal_VIII> people cause less damage to the car than other cars :-)
22:46:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> if you choose the first way, you get a partial responsibility for the accident
22:47:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> if you choose the second way, you may still get fined for going on the pavewalk
22:47:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> and you get in real trouble if you actually hit a passant
22:47:54  <Gonozal_VIII> that's stupid... good that i don't have to drive much
22:50:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> there's a nice sentence of Gödel
22:50:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> "any sufficiently complex set of rules is either incomplete or inconsistent"
22:51:04  <Gonozal_VIII> i hear that a lot...
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22:54:02  <Bjarni> ohh... just remembered a nice story. There was a freeway in England where a car had stopped in the hard shoulder and the police noticed because it was right in front of one of their cameras. They went "oh it's a breakdown and he stopped right next to a phone" but then it turned out that nobody called from the phone so they were a bit pussled. There was no driver either but there was a guy lying on the passenger seat so they decide t
22:54:02  <Bjarni> o call the phone to ask if everything is all right. Everything became really clear when he went for the phone because there was a woman under him :D
22:54:19  <Bjarni> the police released that tape to TV... busted :P
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22:56:39  <Bjarni> I guess we all learned something from that... if you want to do it, then don't do it in front of a police camera in an illegally parked car
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23:13:35  <Bjarni> <--- awesome photoshop (and the story is ok too)
23:16:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> Bjarni: have you seen this one?
23:16:48  <Bjarni> heh
23:16:50  <Bjarni> no
23:16:55  <Bjarni> well... now I have
23:17:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> note that "Eimer" is the german word for bucket ;)
23:18:59  <Bjarni> I would like to know what data Apple get. Somehow I think the statistic explanation is true but I would like to know for sure
23:19:16  <Bjarni> I noticed some widgets phone home
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23:19:41  <Bjarni> but then one of them made a popup saying that I could download an update
23:20:29  <Bjarni> then I just blocked all widgets unless they really need net access (like the weather forecast one)
23:21:25  <Bjarni> there is the risk of spyware in all OSes
23:22:06  <Bjarni> I don't think Apple would be illegally spying on their customers and then abuse that info. If any company is caught doing that then it's bye bye
23:22:24  <Bjarni> nobody will ever buy their products again if that happens and they know that
23:22:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> "Ein Schelm, wer böses dabei denkt."
23:23:36  *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
23:24:57  <Bjarni> damn my German is rusty :(
23:25:01  <Bjarni> what does Schelm mean?
23:26:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> difficult to explain
23:26:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's kind of an outdated word
23:27:11  <Eddi|zuHause2>
23:28:16  <Bjarni> Todbringer...
23:28:19  <Bjarni> ok
23:28:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> (the article does even feature that exact same sentence)
23:28:43  <Bjarni> yeah I quickly realised that you didn't just make it up
23:29:00  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause2: is it the same?
23:29:15  <SmatZ> hmm no
23:29:54  <SmatZ> I wonder why this is linked page to English from , that is linked from
23:29:56  <SmatZ> too complex
23:29:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, i can't open webpages anymore
23:31:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> "The order's emblem, depicted on insignia, is a garter with the motto Honi soit qui mal y pense (Old French: shame upon him who thinks evil of it)"
23:31:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> that is the phrase
23:32:30  <Bjarni> ahh now I get it... one word in a sentence really matters sometimes :)
23:33:06  <Bjarni> well... I actually said that it's not likely that it's the worst case scenario
23:33:25  <Bjarni> I trust 3rd party plugins that phones home somewhat less though
23:33:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, it's a common phrase that usually appears in context of such stories
23:34:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> like that the creator's MAC address appears in a word document (a few years ago)
23:35:10  <Bjarni> I didn't hear that one
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23:37:50  <Bjarni> but I just remembered another one... MS should be part of a greater plot to steal company information so American companies could learn stuff about other companies so they could get orders that they wouldn't get otherwise
23:38:23  <SmatZ> CIA did the 9/11 !!!
23:38:34  <Bjarni> there was a whole lot of analysing at one time when Boring got a major order and it looked like the result of industrial spies
23:38:57  <Gonozal_VIII> there never were any people on the moon!
23:39:23  <SmatZ> FBI killed JFK
23:39:24  <Bjarni> when they are to make billions then I think they could do it (that goes for most companies if not all) but somehow I don't think the US government funded and controlled the spies
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23:40:04  <Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> there never were any people on the moon! <-- that's the truth so it doesn't fit in with the insane stories mentioned right now
23:40:23  <Gonozal_VIII> the government uses iodine in the water to control the people's thoughts!
23:40:55  <SmatZ> there are aliens among us
23:41:03  <SmatZ> and government knows about it
23:41:23  <Gonozal_VIII> government are all aliens!
23:41:24  <SmatZ> Elvis lives!
23:41:36  <Bjarni> the US government will not public their reports on UFO sidings because they are proof of alien visits
23:41:39  <Gonozal_VIII> hitler too
23:41:44  <Bjarni> that one was on the radio the other day
23:42:36  <|fjb|> Iodine in the water? Did you watch Dr. Strangelove? :-)
23:43:00  <Gonozal_VIII> :-)
23:43:07  <Bjarni> and with the statement that the government should have rejected publishing their archive because it would make mass hysteria because it contains the proof... somehow I don't think they said that because if they want to keep something like that secret then they wouldn't claim to be able to prove it
23:44:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> <Gonozal_VIII> the government uses iodine in the water to control the people's thoughts! <- actually, a lot of countries put flourides into the water ;)
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23:45:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> (it's supposed to help with dental health)
23:45:52  <Bjarni> it has nasty sideeffects so I'm happy that we aren't doing that here
23:45:53  <SmatZ> if you type Google into Google, the Internet will die
23:45:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> (germany decided against this, so they put flourides into the salt instead)
23:46:20  <Bjarni> we put it in toothpaste instead XD
23:46:37  <Bjarni> you shouldn't eat it
23:46:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> that's also done
23:46:45  <SmatZ> :)
23:48:11  <Bjarni> here a lot of people had a specific disease based on lack of (something... I don't know the English name for it) so they decided to add it to salt. Now nobody has that disease anymore so now people want to remove it again
23:48:23  <Bjarni> I think I know what will happen if it's removed :P
23:48:48  <Gonozal_VIII> skorbut
23:48:52  <Gonozal_VIII> ^^
23:48:52  <SmatZ> iodide, calcium
23:48:57  <Gonozal_VIII> no..
23:48:59  <Bjarni> no. not that
23:49:11  <Bjarni> it's not vitamin C
23:49:26  <Bjarni> it's not even a vitamin at all
23:49:31  <Gonozal_VIII> yes... remembered while writing
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23:49:49  <Gonozal_VIII> "kropf" is the thing with iodine
23:50:04  <dihedral> night ladies
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23:50:30  <Bjarni> actually.... iodine could be the name in English :)
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23:50:43  <Bjarni> I will look it up tomorrow
23:50:46  <Bjarni> time for bed
23:50:53  <Bjarni> goodnight
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23:51:02  <Gonozal_VIII>
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23:55:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> err... was that necessary?
23:55:50  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
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