Log for #openttd on 4th December 2007:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:31  <SpComb> <-- working zoom
00:00:45  <SpComb> although there's now some bug with it suddenly deciding to not load any images anymore
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00:17:44  <LeviathNL> very nice work SpComb what are you planning on doing next?
00:18:30  <LeviathNL> minimap?
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00:33:05  <Gekz> when is 0.7.0 coming out? :P
00:33:08  <Gekz> twas a joke.
00:33:10  <Gekz> don't eat me.
00:33:29  <Sacro> !summon Grue
00:41:33  <SpComb> LeviathNL: double-click-center and mousewheel scrolling
00:42:05  * SpComb is starting to get quite a nice chunk of pixel math in his javascript code
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00:49:01  <Sacro`> hmmm
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01:44:43  <SmatZ> night
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01:46:03  <SpComb> there, now the mousewheel scroll works as well
01:46:15  <SpComb> and there's a pixel-perfect "Link to this location" thing
01:47:39  <SpComb> <-- note that I've removed the update-every-two-seconds thing, now it only updates when you move the map
02:08:11  <Gekz> that link never works for me
02:08:33  <Gekz> doesnt work in Opera at least
02:11:56  <SpComb> what part of it doesn't work?
02:12:00  * SpComb doesn't have opera installed
02:12:15  <Gekz> err, the site
02:12:18  <Gekz> it doesnt load
02:12:18  <Gekz> lol
02:12:34  <Gekz> oh wait, it's just the link with the # part
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02:13:59  <SpComb> so without the # stuff it loads?
02:16:04  <SpComb> gah, why would it be that I'm unable to load any savegames into my dedicated server at all? I saved a very simple game with no GRFs that I was playing on that server as a client, and trying to load it into openttd with `-g simple` fails with "File not readable"
02:16:27  <SpComb> very annoying having to build a tiny piece of track and a train every single time I make a change
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02:19:34  <Sacro`> SpComb: lack of zlib?
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02:33:01  <SpComb> Sacro: would it not complain about that at compile time?
02:33:15  <Sacro> SpComb: you'd think so
02:33:31  <Sacro> hmm
02:33:43  <Sacro> but you normally get an inflate() error i belive without zlib
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02:56:11  <SpComb> the vehicle list now lets you center the map on the vehicle
02:56:39  <SpComb> I want to feed some openttdcoop game into this and see how well it works :(
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03:49:04  * Belugas worked on Focused Edit widget and is satisfied with his work
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06:05:01  <jthill> re 11565: assuming FOR_EACH_SET_BIT is a good idea at all, wouldn't just changing it to `j = p->attr&0x2f;` have been better?
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06:12:48  <jthill> gak nevermind.  I guess bitfields would have been unportable or something.
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07:14:08  <Celestar> morning
07:14:13  <Gonozal_VIII> morning
07:16:43  <Celestar> ./googleearth-bin: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/ undefined symbol: SSL_CTX_set_info_callback
07:16:46  <Celestar> WTF?
07:17:04  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
07:17:20  <Celestar> ldap?!
07:17:38  <Rubidium> morning Celestar
07:17:50  <Celestar> good mornign Rubidium. Did you get my hopelessly outdated patch?
07:18:15  <Rubidium> yes
07:18:23  <Celestar> good :)
07:18:38  <Rubidium> I've applied it too, but when that was finally done properly it was already too late to do testing
07:18:59  <Rubidium> I've already had too little sleep
07:19:09  <Celestar> welcome to the club :(
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08:10:03  <Gekz> pfft
08:10:12  <Gekz> I haven't slept since the beginning of the epoch.
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08:18:18  <blathijs> Gekz: january 1st 1970?
08:18:32  <Gekz> yes
08:19:42  <blathijs> poor you
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08:55:54  <BiA|pavel-css> hi
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09:20:36  <Ammler> good morning guys, how should I check if the fallowing assert already fixed? (road_map.h:22: RoadTileType GetRoadTileType(TileIndex): Assertion `IsTileType(t, MP_ROAD)' failed.)
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09:35:57  <Rubidium> Ammler: which version of OTTD?
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09:43:32  <Ammler> Rubidium: beta
09:43:51  <Ammler> we have the assert without interacting...
09:44:13  <Ammler> someone is trying to check it with a trunk
09:45:42  <Rubidium> sounds like an already solved issue
09:46:23  <Ammler> but its right, the 0.6 release will still be based on trunk?
09:46:46  <Ammler> as long as there is no new branch?
09:48:19  <Ammler> would make more sense to update the coop server to current nightly then
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10:04:44  <Rubidium> Ammler: yes, yes, yes
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10:25:52  <Celestar> wee hee mail server is dead :S
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10:41:26  <Ammler> Rubidium: thanks :)
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11:12:44  <BiA|pavel-css> hi
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15:33:19  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11567 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1512] (r11011): break the chain before moving a vehicle after another in the same chain
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16:15:07  <SmatZ> hello ottders :)
16:16:20  <SmatZ> everytime I open my notebook at lecture, everybody around says, "whoo I played TTD a lot, now I see the game is not dead, I will play it again" :)
16:17:21  <hylje> haa
16:18:05  <Sacro> SmatZ: hehe, I get that too
16:18:19  <BiA|pavel-css> good games are known everywhere :)
16:19:33  <SmatZ> :)
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16:36:21  <Gege> god day
16:37:53  <Gege> need me someone who has experienced in openttd remoted servers. if someone can help me plz send a prv message
16:48:25  <blathijs> Gege: You're better off explaining your problem here, I think
16:48:42  * blathijs is afk
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17:04:29  <Worldbeing> Aha! The magical and mystical world of #openttd!
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17:10:15  <Belugas> hey Worldbeing
17:10:23  <Worldbeing> Hey
17:10:25  <Belugas> Gege, don't be shy, tell us your problem/question
17:11:34  <Gege> sorry im not shy only afk
17:12:25  <Belugas> ok :)
17:12:37  <Gege> and i want to steal only one (remote server experienced) men time
17:12:47  <Gege> not the all community with my bad english
17:12:52  <Gege> :)
17:13:18  <Belugas> well... if one cannot help, the others might
17:13:20  <glx> but you may get a faster reply if you ask everybody :)
17:13:57  <Gege> i have time:) and i ask the question what i want before but too many answers to me to choose the best
17:14:22  <Gege> and many fake joke:)
17:15:04  <Gege> i dont know what the better way to use my difficulty settings on the remoted server
17:15:10  <Gege> i know some way
17:15:22  <Gege> but every way need a file transfer
17:15:45  <Gege> need to send my openttd.cfg or need to send my saved map
17:16:04  <Gege> and i dont like this way
17:16:13  <Gege> because the server are not mine
17:16:24  <glx> it's the only way
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17:17:57  <Sacro> to blast off and nuke it from orbit?
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17:20:54  <Gege> i cant load my savegames from home in the server
17:21:45  <Gege> rcon <rconpw> "load myip::\c:\destination\map.sav"
17:21:51  <Gege> or some other way?
17:21:58  <Sacro> hmm, where can you put grfs
17:22:05  <Sacro> ~/.openttd/data doesn't seem to work
17:22:23  <LeviathNL> should work :s
17:22:31  <glx> Gege: the server can only load local files
17:23:08  <Gege> :(
17:23:52  <Sacro> it doesn't work D:
17:24:07  <Gege> not my day:S
17:24:24  <glx> Sacro: check rights
17:24:42  <Sacro> glx: ben:users, 755 for folders, 644 for files
17:24:58  <glx> compiled yourself?
17:25:07  <Sacro> the binary? no
17:25:11  <Sacro> tis from the repo
17:25:14  <Sacro> well
17:25:19  <Sacro> i wrote the PKGBUILD
17:25:26  <Sacro> so technically, in a round about way, i did
17:26:16  <glx> maybe --personal-dir flag is not properly set
17:26:33  <Sacro> lets go have a look
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17:26:59  <Sacro> make PREFIX=/usr BINARY_DIR=/bin ICON_DIR=/share/pixmaps DATA_DIR=/share/openttd PERSONAL_DIR=/.openttd USE_HOMEDIR=1 INSTALL=1
17:27:25  <glx> use configure instead
17:27:30  <Gege> thats interesting but i dont understand:) im too noob for this:D
17:27:41  <Sacro> glx: 0.5.3 doesn't have configure
17:28:06  <Gege> thats the 0.5.6 ver
17:28:21  <glx> 0.5.6 doesn't exist Gege )
17:29:07  <Sacro> any more ideas?
17:29:18  <glx> Sacro: I don't know then (windows doesn't have personal_dir in 0.5)
17:29:26  <Sacro> tis not windows
17:29:29  <Sacro> tislinux
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17:30:00  <Gege> sob i use xp but the serv run debian
17:30:29  <Gege> some afk
17:30:48  <glx> Gege: you need a ssh access to the server
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17:31:20  <gegeafk> 2 problem my english are bad and i dont know what is ssh acces
17:31:30  <glx> remote access
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17:31:52  <Sacro> who else talks hungarian?
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17:32:50  <Wolf01> hello
17:33:12  <gege> good day
17:33:44  <Sacro> bonjourno
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17:47:59  <Wolf01> how cute... he remembered about a question i asked 3 years ago
17:48:44  <hylje> chances are he went around browsing the later pages of the forum archives
17:52:13  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r11568 /trunk/src/window.h: -Codechange: Use bit shifts instead of values for flags. It helps readability a little bit.
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18:04:41  <LeviathNL> Wolf01, what brickland part are you currently working on?
18:05:24  <Wolf01> black roads on soil
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18:08:06  <LeviathNL> when are these used?
18:08:28  <Wolf01> when you place a new road
18:08:37  <SmatZ> lol @ [18:47:59] <Wolf01> how cute... he remembered about a question i asked 3 years ago
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18:10:31  <fjb> Moin
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18:10:39  <LeviathNL> what sprite numbers in trgtr.grf?
18:11:06  <Wolf01> good question
18:11:47  <fjb> Is there some trouble with road vehicles finding their way again?
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18:12:48  <LeviathNL> I also can't "find" them ingame
18:13:36  <Wolf01> the terrain tiles start at 0 with the brown tiles, then 3 series of green tiles (the 2 not used and the grassy one) up to 75
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18:14:01  <LeviathNL> these 2 series are used
18:14:17  <Wolf01> no, i tried, they aren't
18:14:19  <LeviathNL> look at the screenshit i posted in the thread
18:14:25  <LeviathNL> try the tar
18:14:53  <Wolf01> and seem that in toyland there are only 2 kinds of road, urban and country
18:15:15  <Wolf01> so i'll convert the new placed to urban
18:15:41  <Wolf01> replacing the brown with the gray
18:17:16  <LeviathNL> do you have a replacement (red groundtiles?) for the red tiles in toyland?
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18:17:45  <LeviathNL> i think they are toylands rough ground
18:20:04  <Wolf01> yes they are
18:20:22  <Wolf01> i'll work on it as soon i'll finish the roads
18:26:00  <LeviathNL> can't I do a color replace on the standard tiles?
18:27:17  <Wolf01> why you should?
18:28:08  <LeviathNL> did you hava any other plans whit these tiles than recoloring them?
18:28:44  <Wolf01> yes, i plan to add plastic rocks
18:29:20  <Wolf01> and little green platic pieces for the rough land
18:29:49  <LeviathNL> ah ok
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18:42:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11569 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp: -Fix [FS#1480]: full paths sometimes did not work correctly.
18:46:34  <fjb> I have a problem with a lost train which insists on going to an occupied platform while the neigbour platform is free:
18:47:00  <glx> fjb: random in action
18:47:37  <fjb> Hm, how can I guide it to the other platform?
18:47:52  <SmatZ> fjb:
18:48:05  <SmatZ> fjb: the train doesn't have the station in its order
18:48:18  <fjb> And I have some routing problems with the road vehicles sometimes not finding their paths in the latest nightly builds.
18:48:22  <hylje> given a portal gun powerful enough
18:48:27  <hylje> could one run a train between them?
18:49:11  <SmatZ> fjb: there were not any changes to the PF... can you describe your problem more accurate, or give exact revision when it "went wrong"?
18:49:19  <SmatZ> hylje: yes
18:51:13  <fjb> Two bus stops in the same small town. The ai once build them and then got sold to me. One bus was going between them. Now every bus that has to go between these two stations (and two others formerly build by the ai), gets instantly lost.
18:52:39  <fjb> The speed indicator below the vehicle window constantly shows a changing speed and the arrow in front of the next station in the routing window is flickering and sometomes jumps between the two stations.
18:53:12  <BiA|pavel-css> sounds like teleport :)
18:53:12  <fjb> And I suddenly have more trains getting lost. I never had lost trains in this game before.
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18:54:06  <fjb> The bus doesn't teleport, ist just drives around, often further and further away from it's destination, One of the busses went almost to the other side of the map.
18:54:54  <glx> fjb: what pf is used for buses?
18:55:12  <fjb> yapf
18:55:15  <SmatZ> fjb: could you post a savegame?
18:55:49  <fjb> Yes, tell me where I can upload it. My webserver is still not set up again.
18:56:58  <Wolf01> LeviathNL what do you think?
18:57:26  <SmatZ> fjb: how big is that file?
18:57:36  <LeviathNL> Wolf01, very nice!
18:58:29  <LeviathNL> If i can help with some standard copy posting in the sprites or in any other way let me know
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18:59:13  <Wolf01> i don't know, i'm used to draw all the tiles pixel per pixel by hand
19:00:19  <Wolf01> maybe some pieces can be tiled, but i like to draw different textures for all the tiles
19:00:29  *** G [] has joined #openttd
19:02:54  <fjb> SmatZ: 577888 Bytes
19:03:18  <fjb> I really have to setup that webserver again.
19:04:34  *** Hovoere [] has quit []
19:05:46  <Wolf01> LeviathNL, looking at the picture on the forum, the quarter sloped tile facing north should be lowered by 2 or 3 pixels (y_offs)
19:06:29  <Wolf01> uhm, no they are right
19:06:34  <Wolf01> are the NW slopes too low
19:07:36  <LeviathNL> I'll check
19:08:48  <LeviathNL> the biggest slope facing south does not look properly aligned either
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19:20:14  <LeviathNL> fixed it, also changed some other tiles offsets slightly (these cleared land tiles are great for debugging offsets :) )
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19:56:05  <gegeafk> re
19:56:08  <gegeafk> omg
19:56:11  *** gegeafk is now known as gege
19:56:14  <gege> re)
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20:22:29  <Ikarus-70> Hi
20:22:57  <Ikarus-70> is someone reading me?
20:23:19  <glx> why?
20:23:28  <Prof_Frink> Ikarus-70: reading you loud and clear
20:23:30  *** BigBB [] has quit [Quit: BigBB]
20:23:35  <Ikarus-70> I have a problem with ottd
20:23:43  <Ikarus-70> with multiplayer
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20:24:27  <Ikarus-70> it has lags, but i seem to be the only one on that server
20:25:27  <Ikarus-70> can someone help me with this?
20:25:52  <Ikarus-70> I have DSL 2000 and WinXP
20:26:00  <Rubidium> where are you, where is the server, how fast is your computer, how big is the game?
20:26:28  <Prof_Frink> And are you doing anything that might be eating bandwith?
20:27:24  <Ikarus-70> I am in Germany
20:27:34  <Ikarus-70> All other programs stopped
20:27:47  <Ikarus-70> I have a Athlon64 3200+
20:28:50  <Ikarus-70> CPU @ 8%
20:29:00  <Ikarus-70> network @ 0,1%
20:29:23  <Prof_Frink> OK, so the problem isn't your end.
20:30:28  <Prof_Frink> Either: The server is running slow, which you can't really do much about, or the intertubes are blocked, which you can't really do much about.
20:30:31  <Rubidium> network @ 0,1 % doesn't necessarily mean that his DSL has enough free bandwidth
20:31:16  <Ikarus-70> Is there anything I can do?
20:31:27  <Prof_Frink> That comes under the heading of "blocked intertubes"
20:31:37  <Ikarus-70> I have this problem often, on different servers
20:31:58  <Ikarus-70> never heard about it :-(
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20:53:48  <Thijs> !password
20:54:04  <Rubidium> fietstas
20:54:10  <Rubidium> ;)
20:54:14  *** Thijs [] has left #openttd []
20:54:24  <Rubidium> bye!
20:54:33  <ln-> startkeylogger
20:54:53  <Rubidium> bugger... nobody with a bugged router
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21:39:30  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r11570 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix: do not flood rail station tiles when there is a vehicle on it (when non-uniform stations are ON)
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21:53:26  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11571 /trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1493]: road vehicle getting to the wrong side of a station when trying to overtake in there.
21:53:49  <Wezz6400> hmm, too bad openttd needs screen on a linux box
21:54:06  <Wezz6400> to run dedicated that is ;)
21:54:18  <glx> well noone force you to use screen
21:54:31  <glx> but it is highly recommended over ssh :)
21:54:46  <Prof_Frink> And what's wrong with dtach?
21:55:07  <Wezz6400> well if I want to close my ssh connection, I need screen to keep it running don't I?
21:55:42  <glx> Wezz6400: yes but there are probably other tools able to do that
21:55:55  <Wezz6400> well true
21:56:20  <Wezz6400> I'm not saying it's very bad or anything, it just seems kind of overkill to keep a session running
21:56:45  <glx> not really
21:56:48  <Bjarni> somebody should write a guide on how to run OpenTTD servers on remote servers when you disconnect from them
21:56:54  <glx> screen is very easy to use
21:57:00  <Bjarni> ...because I would like to read it ;
21:57:02  <Bjarni> ;)
21:57:43  <Wezz6400> I wasn't really complaining or anything, it's just that I find other sofware that is capable of forking a bit more convinient
21:58:05  * Bjarni wonders what screen is
21:58:19  * Bjarni wonders if the guys at uni installed screen already
21:58:37  <SmatZ> Bjarni: something like nohup ... alows you to let program run when you close your terminal connection
21:58:48  * SmatZ did maybe lame explanation :-p
21:59:06  <Bjarni> well... it's there :)
21:59:26  <Bjarni> even with a man page
21:59:45  <Bjarni> I guess I should be able to figure out how to use it then
22:00:05  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
22:00:08  <Bjarni> not for OpenTTD though... they firewalled it
22:00:30  <Bjarni> so it would make no sense to host a game... nobody would be able to join except localhost
22:01:12  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
22:01:36  <Bjarni> hi Eddi|zuHause
22:01:42  <Bjarni> I have a question for you :)
22:01:54  <Eddi|zuHause> shoot
22:02:16  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: have you heard about the powerplant that a Danish company might build in Germany?
22:02:23  <Eddi|zuHause> no
22:02:33  <Bjarni> I thought so
22:03:12  <Bjarni> here the news says that there are massive protests against it and that it's a cruel company and shit so I decided to search for this in German... and came up with nothing
22:03:39  <Bjarni> huge protests and the only thing that came up was the company's own info page on what they offer to build
22:03:44  <Eddi|zuHause> well, maybe it is known in a 2km radius around the building site...
22:03:57  <Eddi|zuHause> brb
22:04:01  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:04:07  <Bjarni> that was quick
22:04:24  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
22:04:51  <Bjarni> do you know about the power supply situation in the former DDR?
22:05:15  <Bjarni> still @ Eddi|zuHause
22:05:35  <Eddi|zuHause> not much
22:05:51  <Bjarni> because the media here talks a lot and tells only a little
22:06:15  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remember any serious power shortages if that is what you mean...
22:06:46  <ln-> did DDR have the same kind of wall outlets as most of the western europe?
22:06:57  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
22:07:14  <Eddi|zuHause> at least there is no difference between east and west germany
22:07:40  <Bjarni> but from what I understand the politicians says that they need more power to get rid of unemployment since new production and stuff needs more power
22:08:09  <Eddi|zuHause> there have been over 15 years of decline...
22:08:26  *** Worldbeing [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox]]
22:08:33  <Bjarni> so they requested a power plant and then the Danish power company offers a state of the art coal plant and then the media here flames coal plants in general
22:08:45  <Bjarni> saying stuff that we should only build windmills and stuff
22:08:49  <Eddi|zuHause> i assume they shut down a lot of stuff after The Change, because it was not needed anymore, with most of the industries closing
22:09:06  <Bjarni> how do you expect to here and now build a reliable supply of power from windmills on a massive scale
22:09:28  <Eddi|zuHause> that sentence does not parse...
22:09:38  *** |Bastiaan| [] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies]
22:10:04  <Bjarni> I mean if we should only build windmills and more power is needed then we will just have to hope that people will only use electricity when the wind is blowing, right?
22:10:09  <ln-> [how do you expect] [to [here and now] build a reliable supply of power from windmills on a massive scale]
22:11:11  <ln-> Bjarni: there could be coal-powered turbines that blow at the windmills when it's calm.
22:12:36  <Bjarni> hehe
22:12:40  <Prof_Frink> Nonsense. You just need curried sprouts.
22:12:56  *** mikl [] has joined #openttd
22:14:11  <fjb> I guess it is the coal power plant that filters the co2 and puts it into the ground. And nobody knows if it will really stay there.
22:14:36  <Bjarni> the thing is that CO2 is likely the only thing that it will not filter out
22:15:36  <Bjarni> but then again it will have an efficiency of around 50% (I presume that they will not build it worse than the plants they already own), making it far more efficient than the rest of the powerplants in Germany
22:16:11  <fjb> The politicians are talking about filtering CO2 and dumpunk it in the earth. And that power plant will use brown coal, witch doesn't have much energy.
22:16:35  <Bjarni> here they managed to do that on a test plant
22:16:39  <Bjarni> well the plant is real
22:16:46  <Bjarni> they just decided to test on it
22:16:48  <fjb> And some villages will be destroyed when they get the brown coal out of the earth.
22:16:58  <Bjarni> turns out that the process eats 30% of the power output
22:17:16  <Bjarni> who uses brown coal today?
22:17:24  <Bjarni> it sucks :P
22:17:47  <fjb> Yes, but that power plant will filter the CO2, no politician cares how much of the power output that process consumes.
22:18:18  <Eddi|zuHause> this is so funny, there are a lot of closed down brown coal mines here, and they decided to make some of them lakes
22:18:24  <Bjarni> they can't filter out 100%
22:18:25  <fjb> It sucks, but our politicians decided to still use it. Eastern Germany used it because they had nothing else.
22:18:32  <Eddi|zuHause> then they decided upon a 10 year plan to fill the hole with water
22:18:40  <Eddi|zuHause> then there came The Big Flood
22:18:47  <Eddi|zuHause> and the entire thing filled in 10 days
22:18:51  <Bjarni> and it was flooded in no time
22:18:51  <fjb> :-)
22:18:58  <Bjarni> you told us earlier
22:19:15  <Bjarni> do you presume that we either don't read what you write or have memory leaks?
22:19:28  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the city would most certainly have drowned otherwise...
22:19:51  <Bjarni> then empty the lakes and use them as water buffers to protect the city
22:19:55  <fjb> The protests against the plant are mainly because it will use brown coal, and some villages will be destroyed. And because the whole plan sucks.
22:20:00  <Bjarni> gee... do I really have to tell you everything?
22:20:36  <fjb> Bjarni for Bundeskanzler. :-)
22:20:56  <Bjarni> that is a thing that I will never become
22:21:03  <Bjarni> not because I'm not suited for it
22:21:05  <fjb> Oh. :-(
22:21:20  <Bjarni> but because it takes too much asslicking to be a candidate
22:21:36  <ln-> i don't remember seeing this mine-filling discussion before.
22:21:57  * Bjarni debugs ln- for memory leaks
22:21:59  <fjb> No, not asslicking today anymore. You only have to work for a powerfull industry lobby. :-)
22:22:18  <Bjarni> ok
22:22:25  <Bjarni> then I have a chance
22:22:25  *** stillunk1own [] has joined #openttd
22:22:42  <ln-> is it still full of water?
22:23:01  <Bjarni> I will just drop the Kyoto protocol and then I will be backed up by the oil, coal and auto industries
22:23:04  <Bjarni> :P
22:23:04  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11572 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1494]: reinitialise windows system before loading a savegame
22:23:53  <Bjarni> <fjb> The protests against the plant are mainly because it will use brown coal, and some villages will be destroyed. And because the whole plan sucks. <-- I object against it because the whole concept of reducing CO2 and only CO2 is a mistaken one
22:23:57  <Bjarni> what about SO2?
22:24:01  <Bjarni> or O3?
22:24:14  <Bjarni> or NO2 or NO3?
22:24:32  <glx> O3 is good in high altitude :)
22:25:10  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know any power plants in high altitude :p
22:25:29  <glx> would be nice to have a system to catch it on ground and release it in high altitude
22:25:38  <glx> will fill the hole ;)
22:25:54  <ln-> glx: that could be possible with the space elevator.
22:27:14  <Bjarni> <glx> O3 is good in high altitude :) <-- but not when it's lower than 100 meters... then it just causes cancer and stuff
22:28:49  <fjb> Bjarni: Politicians here are mostly doing what the industry wants or what they think hight sound good to most people. Reducing CO2 sounds good, so they do it. Who cares about the other evel things?
22:29:05  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has joined #openttd
22:29:20  <Bjarni> me
22:29:25  *** ludde [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:29:29  <Gonozal_VIII> you
22:29:33  <Gonozal_VIII> what?
22:29:40  <Bjarni> I care
22:29:40  <glx> ho ludde was here
22:29:48  <glx> didn't noticed
22:29:56  *** ben_goodger [] has joined #openttd
22:29:59  <ln-> did you insult him?
22:29:59  <Bjarni> glx: nobody notices when he shows up
22:30:00  <Eddi|zuHause> he's here quite often lately
22:30:13  <fjb> glx: He is always here, but nobody notices him entering the chanel.
22:30:29  <glx> yes we only see him leave
22:30:39  <ln-> the evil peer got him
22:30:42  <Bjarni> fjb: actually I don't care for CO2... I find it less of an issue compared to smog, SO2 and friends
22:30:48  <fjb> Is he real or a ghost. I have to ask him someday.
22:30:57  <Bjarni> he talks to me once in a while
22:31:10  <Bjarni> but I wouldn't rule out the ghost theory though
22:31:12  <Gonozal_VIII> yes, friends can be really annoying
22:31:13  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... where did i see that... "Connection reset by Peer Gynt"
22:31:25  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: in here
22:31:31  <fjb> Bjarni: You are not part of the people our politicans want to impress.
22:31:39  <Gonozal_VIII> peer gynt?
22:31:42  <ln-> does someone want to recommend me a nice sci-fi book written in German?
22:31:55  <Gonozal_VIII> perry rhodan :D
22:31:57  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
22:32:08  <fjb> :-)
22:32:09  <Bjarni> ln-: do you presume that there is one?
22:32:37  <fjb> Perry Rhodan is nice. I read it a lot when I was a kid.
22:32:51  <fjb> :-)
22:32:59  <ln-> Bjarni: must be.
22:33:01  <Gonozal_VIII> :-)
22:33:07  <Bjarni> maybe it's like Star Trek... cool story until you realise that the audio is a bunch of people sitting and talking and not actually making the movements and stuff to make it real
22:33:26  <Bjarni> like missing lips movement sync and stuff
22:33:58  <Bjarni> actually a guy at uni invented a way to make a computer alter mouth movement to match recorded speech
22:34:33  <Bjarni> the idea was to help people with bad ears but Hollywood likes the idea when it comes to synchronising their movies
22:35:06  <Bjarni> I don't think the research has reached a "production" state yet though
22:35:49  <Gonozal_VIII> they should start with translating the text in a way that has the same meaning...
22:36:07  <fjb> Hollywood has some problems with synchronising anyway. The people who have to synchronise it are not allowed to see the whole movie they which they are working on.
22:36:24  <Eddi|zuHause> Gonozal_VIII:
22:36:45  <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: Yes, sometimes it is horrible what the german speakers say. Full of bugs.
22:37:20  <ben_goodger> good ${timeperiod()} everyone; could I please trouble someone who speaks russian for some advice?
22:37:35  <Gonozal_VIII> peer is the first name of that guy :S
22:37:49  <ben_goodger> damn
22:37:57  *** Wolf01|AWAY [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:38:05  <ben_goodger> I need to write this christmas card this evening...
22:38:39  <Eddi|zuHause> Gonozal_VIII: i assume it's a short form of "Peter"
22:38:46  <ln-> write "За ПутОМа!"
22:38:51  <Bjarni> <fjb> Bjarni: You are not part of the people our politicans want to impress. <-- of cause not... I actually knows reality, economics and physics so I can spot realistic and unrealistic politicians
22:39:09  <Bjarni> we are cursed mainly with the last kind :(
22:40:03  <ln-> or "ЎПбрП пПжалПвать в СССР"
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22:40:22  <fjb> Bjarni: Our problem are politicians who are working for thze big companies...
22:40:29  <ben_goodger> that nearly succeeded, but unfortunately I know what CCCP means ^_^
22:41:04  <Gonozal_VIII> something completely different... can you steal something that has already been stolen?
22:41:16  *** prakti [] has quit [Quit: Quitting .... Hackedi...hackedi...weg.]
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22:41:22  <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: Yes, ofcourse you can.
22:41:27  <ben_goodger> Gonozal_VIII: yup
22:41:29  <Eddi|zuHause> Gonozal_VIII: trying to justify your p2p usage?
22:41:41  <fjb> :-)
22:41:42  <ln-> ben_goodger: do you know how to properly write cyrillic text with a pen?
22:41:53  <Gonozal_VIII> nah... modified the stolen trees grf to make them grow from tiny to big
22:41:54  *** stillunk1own [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:42:25  <Eddi|zuHause> while you are at it, allow them in arctic, too ;)
22:42:35  <ben_goodger> ln-: nope, but I'm hoping that this diagram will allow me not to screw it up too badly
22:42:37  <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: Better make own trees. I also thought about it. But I didn't come up with good looking trees.
22:42:41  <Eddi|zuHause> but before releasing, i would ask the artist...
22:43:04  <fjb> Who did the trees? SAC?
22:43:13  <Eddi|zuHause> just because the name says they were stolen, they were actually released by the artist
22:43:17  <Gonozal_VIII> yes but she seems to be gone
22:43:30  <Eddi|zuHause> she just left the forum...
22:43:30  *** divo [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:43:42  <fjb> She has a website, her email should be there.
22:43:43  <ben_goodger> ln-: can you tell me how to properly spell sergei in cyrillic? I have a С but that's about it
22:45:19  *** gege [] has quit []
22:46:33  <ln-> Сергей, afaik.
22:46:47  <LeviathNL> Wolf01, there are some miscoloured pixles in sprite 12
22:47:32  <ben_goodger> thanks
22:48:30  <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: You may find SAC somewhere here:
22:49:38  *** iBitch [] has joined #openttd
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22:49:47  <Gonozal_VIII> thanks
22:50:31  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11573 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt misc_cmd.cpp openttd.cpp): -Codechange: pause games that miss GRFs by default and throw some warnings and disclaimers when you want to unpause it.
22:50:38  <ln-> ben_goodger: in hand-writing it's something like:
22:50:52  <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: Don't know if she is still there.
22:51:22  <ben_goodger> ln-: got it, thanks, turns out that dejavu serif renders cyrillic cursively in italic (logical)
22:51:27  <Gonozal_VIII> can't do anything there without login
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22:51:54  <ben_goodger> is "веселПгП РПжЎества" correct?
22:52:13  <Rubidium> not correct English, that's for sure
22:52:40  <ln-> that one you'll have to ask from someone who actually speaks russian.
22:52:44  <Bjarni> ben_goodger: it looks like you dropped your letters and helplessly tried to fix them :P
22:52:55  <Rubidium> SergejS!
22:53:04  <Eddi|zuHause> Bjarni: pffft... :p
22:53:15  <Bjarni> hey that's how the story goes
22:53:31  <Bjarni> at least my Russian source claims so
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22:53:44  <ben_goodger> Bjarni: that's from google translate, and my cyrillic is absolutely terrible, so I'm effectively blind here
22:54:14  <ben_goodger> Ι πρεφερ Γρεεκ ^_^
22:54:42  <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: Maybe the webmaster of knows her address.
22:54:54  <Bjarni> it should be that the Russians wanted to use letters too so they sent out some guys to pick them up. They got the letters carved in wood and on the way back they dropped them and they broke. To prevent travelling back (it took ages back then) they tried to fix them but they didn't do it correctly
22:55:22  <fjb> :-)
22:56:17  <ben_goodger> that makes a lot of sense
22:56:33  <ben_goodger> it would explain why the russian for L ended up as a reverse of the greek for P, at least.
22:56:43  <Gonozal_VIII> aegir coded the grf, i'll pm him :-)
22:56:54  <Bjarni> yeah... specially since I was told that story by a Russian who teaches languages at one of their universities
22:58:40  <Bjarni> but I have no idea if it's the real story... somehow I think if they really fixed the letters then it wouldn't be in the history books because then they would keep it a secret
22:58:45  <Eddi|zuHause> in the way i learned it it was more like bulgarians or something...
22:59:04  <Eddi|zuHause> but similar story
22:59:24  <Bjarni> I forgot where in Europe the picked up the letters :(
23:00:21  <Eddi|zuHause> ben_goodger: actually, the cyrillic L looks a little similar to the greek Lambda
23:00:41  <Eddi|zuHause> while the cyrillic P looks very much like a greek Pi
23:01:46  <ln-> the cyrillic T looks very much like Pi with a third leg
23:01:51  <Bjarni> they mirrored R and gave it a new sound as well... in a way the letters are very similar but they just got switched sounds compared to the originals
23:02:42  *** Farden [] has quit [Quit: ( :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: )]
23:02:46  <Bjarni> so while the story about the broken letters might be just that... a story, it's not unlikely that something like that could have happened
23:03:45  <ln->
23:04:00  <Bjarni> NO
23:04:04  <Bjarni> not jpg :(
23:04:10  <Bjarni> jpg sucks for something like that
23:04:12  <Bjarni> use png
23:04:22  <Prof_Frink> hello.jpg
23:04:31  <Eddi|zuHause> .svg ;)
23:04:43  <mikl> or .ogg
23:04:52  <Bjarni> whatever
23:04:57  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause: Why would you want hello.jpg scalable?
23:04:58  <Bjarni> just something that will not make it a blur
23:05:30  <mikl> In soviet russia, the letters spell you
23:05:35  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not really sure what you are referring to as hello.jpg...
23:05:57  <Eddi|zuHause> chances are i wouldn't want to find out either :p
23:05:59  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause: A rather famous image.
23:06:13  *** Prof_Frink was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [now you make me search for hello.jpg thinking it was like hello world.... you shouldn't trick people like that]
23:06:21  *** Prof_Frink [] has joined #openttd
23:06:24  <Eddi|zuHause> see :p
23:06:26  <Bjarni> in other words: you are better off not searching for it
23:06:37  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i know :p
23:06:46  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i suspected
23:06:48  <Eddi|zuHause> now i know...
23:06:54  <Prof_Frink> As I was saying before being kicked, "If you've been on the internet, you've seen hello.jpg"
23:07:10  <Gonozal_VIII> why is there something between a and b... there shouldn't be something between a and b... never..
23:07:10  <Bjarni> now I have
23:07:13  <Bjarni> thanks to you :(
23:07:45  <Prof_Frink> Other things I sholdn't mention include tubgirl, lemonparty, meatspin and 2girls1cup.
23:08:02  <Bjarni> then don't mention them :P
23:08:16  <Eddi|zuHause> Gonozal_VIII: language historical, v (w) and b are closely related... the real question is why they are so far apart in the latin alphabet
23:08:49  <Eddi|zuHause> also, the letter that you would think that "b" is is not the one that looks like "b" ;)
23:09:41  <Bjarni> I was once told that tubgirl was some hot young chick in a tub and I was recommended to go see it.... I was like "so? It's the internet and I go where I want to be. It's not like I don't know what boobs looks like" and I didn't go there. Later I learned that was a wise choice
23:10:18  <Prof_Frink> I have managed (so far) to avoid everything since goatse and tubgirl.
23:11:02  <Bjarni> but what URL is linked to that damn hello.jpg?
23:11:23  <Prof_Frink> Originally it was, but that was taken down
23:11:24  <Bjarni> or the other way around XD
23:11:38  <Bjarni> usually URLs links to jpgs
23:11:48  <Bjarni> ohh... that was goatse
23:12:12  <Prof_Frink> wiki has plenty of info
23:12:18  <Bjarni> according to some people got a better (longer) view of it than I did
23:12:27  <Bjarni> thank God for hotkeys
23:12:33  *** Wezz6400 [] has quit [Quit: Zzz]
23:12:55  <Bjarni> Prof_Frink: like I want to read about a wreched anus....
23:13:04  <Bjarni> I'm not into that >_<
23:13:20  <Gonozal_VIII> wtf
23:13:31  <Bjarni> I thought so too
23:13:40  <Bjarni> while hitting command+w
23:16:25  <ln-> the goatse has enabled a lot of people to come out of the closet.
23:16:40  *** mikl_ [] has joined #openttd
23:16:53  <Bjarni> are you sure it's the closet they came out of?
23:17:13  <mikl_> Bjarni: are you sure you want to know?
23:17:14  <Prof_Frink> (SFW)
23:17:35  *** mikl is now known as mikl_o_O
23:17:39  <Bjarni> besides I would imagine that it would scare people away instead
23:17:49  *** Prof_Frink was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [you aren't fooling me again]
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23:18:13  <glx> <Gonozal_VIII> why is there something between a and b... there shouldn't be something between a and b... never.. <-- it is a, b, v indeed :)
23:18:15  *** mikl [] has joined #openttd
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23:18:39  <Prof_Frink> No, really, it's safe
23:18:59  <Bjarni> I don't trust you anymore
23:19:05  <mikl> I know a guy who managed to get Goatse on his credit card
23:19:30  <mikl> he played enough with the colours that it was not immediately recogniseable
23:19:51  <Gonozal_VIII> ?
23:19:58  <mikl> but everyone who had seen goatse before would immidiately recognise it
23:20:16  <mikl> it gave an insane amout of geek cred, of course :)
23:20:23  <Prof_Frink> goat cred
23:20:42  <Bjarni> gaah
23:20:45  *** mikl_o_O [] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by Peer Gynt]
23:20:55  <Bjarni> it's not safe
23:20:56  <Gonozal_VIII> how do you get something on your credit card?
23:21:19  <Eddi|zuHause> get your bank to print a custom image on it?
23:21:22  <Bjarni> it said "his hands are really in there"... I closed before noticing that >_<
23:21:23  <mikl> Gonozal_VIII: some banks offer it - then you just upload an image and you but it on the card
23:22:05  <mikl> Gonozal_VIII: In this case, it was a Danish bank - "Jyske Bank" :)
23:22:05  <Bjarni> I say that I wouldn't want it on my credit card... imagine all the places where you use it
23:22:35  <Gonozal_VIII> i've never used a credit card
23:22:46  * Bjarni would reject a guys payment if the credit card looks like that
23:23:17  <Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> i've never used a credit card <-- you mean you owe the bank so much that they don't trust you with one?
23:23:47  <Prof_Frink> I want a credit card that causes "Cost: £50" to float out the top in red letters whenever you use it
23:23:53  <Gonozal_VIII> ^^ i don't know many people that use credit cards here
23:24:18  <orudge> [23:18:37] <Prof_Frink> No, really, it's safe <-- it is, actually
23:24:33  <Prof_Frink> orudge: Too slow
23:24:42  <orudge> oh well
23:24:43  <Bjarni> actually I learned that my credit card isn't a credit card at all... I'm told it's a debit card instead
23:24:54  <mikl> I don' t have a credit card either - I have Visa Electron
23:25:01  <mikl> helps me not spend more than I have :)
23:25:15  * Bjarni don't even have visa
23:25:18  <Bjarni> no need for it
23:25:24  <mikl> debit card is the right term for it, I believe
23:25:39  <SmatZ> I got one for free when settling my bank account...
23:25:47  <mikl> Bjarni: what kind of debit card do you have that's not a Electron?
23:25:51  <Bjarni> besides it makes it way less interesting for international criminals
23:26:01  <mikl> Bjarni: that too
23:26:22  <Gonozal_VIII> for free... until they charge you every month for it
23:26:32  <Bjarni> <mikl> Bjarni: what kind of debit card do you have that's not a Electron? <-- you have 3 guesses :)
23:26:40  <mikl> Maestro?
23:26:46  <Bjarni> no
23:26:53  <mikl> that's the only other I can think of...
23:26:55  <Gonozal_VIII> i have a maestro card :-)
23:27:06  <Bjarni> hehe
23:27:38  <mikl> unless you're thinking of those your-own-banks-ATMs-only-cards
23:27:43  <Bjarni> mikl: it's not that tricky... I just said that I can't travel with it meaning that it only works here
23:28:14  <mikl> But the Dankort /is/ a credit card
23:28:30  <mikl> by my definition, anyways...
23:28:30  <Bjarni> are you sure?
23:28:42  <mikl> since it's possible to withdraw more than you have
23:29:00  <Bjarni> but only stupid people do that :p
23:29:10  <Bjarni> besides you have to have an agreement with your bank to do that
23:29:16  <mikl> :'-(
23:29:21  <Bjarni> I think
23:29:25  <mikl> I'm stooopid then, I suppose
23:29:42  <mikl> You can do it without their agreement, but they'll get angry ;)
23:29:44  <Bjarni> they charge you an arm and a leg for going into negative
23:30:11  <mikl> and/or have you make a real credit agreement
23:30:16  <Eddi|zuHause> Maestro (or Electronic Cash) are the most common cards in germany... they are not credit cards
23:30:26  <mikl> been there, done that - now I'm in debt :(
23:31:09  <mikl> Eddi|zuHause: One of the largest Danish banks use them as well, but most of them went with  Visa Electron (which works the same way)
23:31:25  <Bjarni> you know they give you virtually no interest in your cash in the bank (regular account) but if you go into negative they start putting all kinds of fees on your account and then the interest is really noteworthy
23:31:45  <Bjarni> that's why I avoid it
23:32:27  <ln-> mikl: there are Visa Debit cards, which are not Electrons nor credit cards.
23:32:53  <Prof_Frink> Indeed. I have one right here.
23:33:10  <mikl> ln-: Oh - interesting :)
23:33:56  <Bjarni> you see... if your income is X and your expenses are X every month, then you just need to have a positive cash on the account to start with. If you have say -5000 every month then you add and subtract the same amount of cash (in fact less because the bank keeps some of it) so just keep some money there and make sure it will not reach 0
23:34:02  <Eddi|zuHause> the good thing about Maestro is that most stores here accept them without additional fee
23:34:04  <Bjarni> and you will save a whole lot of money
23:34:22  <mikl> It's a quite new thing for average Danes to be using anything but our national Dankort or the Visa/Dankort
23:35:11  <Bjarni> I don't the students who says that they have to go into negative every month because they are low on income.... it's a static problem, not a dynamic one. It's a question of what about of money you have a minimum on your account
23:35:14  <ln-> Eddi|zuHause: over here, quite many stores have the Maestro logo on their window along with the other logos, but i don't know anyone who has a Maestro. (while i know a lot of people having Electron).
23:35:55  <mikl> Bjarni: yeah, it's not a monetary problem - it's a lack of self-discipline
23:35:56  <glx> I have an Electron
23:36:02  <ln-> glx: sorry to hear that.
23:36:05  <Eddi|zuHause> most banks here don't give credit to students
23:36:09  <orudge> I have a Visa, and a Maestro!
23:36:19  <Eddi|zuHause> at least the minimum on my account is 0
23:36:21  <glx> that was my choice
23:36:44  <Prof_Frink> switchmaestro! With rathergood penguins!
23:37:34  <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause> most banks here don't give credit to students <--- surprisingly I was (as a student) offered to borrow money so I could buy a car and pay it back in only (inset obscene number here) months
23:37:53  <glx> 36?
23:37:55  <ln-> over here all banks give credit cards to students having completed enough courses, and with no record of trouble with payments.
23:38:02  <Bjarni> I didn't like the car they offered and the interest looked kind of nasty too
23:38:08  <Bjarni> glx: I think it was even more
23:38:26  <Eddi|zuHause> funnily, once i had X euro on my account, a payment of X+3 going off from the account at day A, and a payment of Y going on the account at day A+1, so i ended up with Y-3 euro, and a (theoretical) -3 euro for one day
23:38:31  <glx> 36 is already a lot for a car
23:38:38  <Bjarni> unless I took care of the car I would still be paying on it when it was unable to drive
23:38:44  <Eddi|zuHause> but there was no complaint from the bank
23:38:50  <Bjarni> the offer was really weird
23:39:28  <ln-> actually, over here it is/was a lot easier to get a Visa by being a university student than by being a regular citizen.
23:39:33  <Bjarni> also I had to ensure it at a specific insurance company
23:40:07  <glx> hmm that implies pay more for no more guaranties
23:40:23  <Bjarni> they just forgot to ask one simple question: do I want my own car? :)
23:40:27  <mikl> Bjarni: it's like buying a phone from L'easy - you'll pay it off over three years...
23:40:37  <mikl> who keeps a mobile phone for three years? ;)
23:40:42  <glx> I do
23:40:48  <Gonozal_VIII> me too
23:40:50  <Bjarni> I do
23:40:54  <mikl> I usually manage to break mine every 6 months or so  :(
23:41:00  <ln-> i've understood the requirements for a Visa are 1) a permanent job, 2) with high enough income, 3) and having had that job for at least 6 months. non-permanent jobs are not ok.
23:41:15  <mikl> last one got smashed in a car door
23:41:27  <Bjarni> :P
23:41:29  <ln-> while a student can get a Visa with virtually a zero-income and no job.
23:41:35  <mikl> don't remember what happened to the one before that, but the screen broke somehow
23:42:05  <glx> my old phone is still functional, but it needs a new battery
23:42:09  <orudge> ln-: it's funny, the bank gave me a Visa before they even gave me a Maestro debit card
23:42:26  <Bjarni> glx: same here.... I wonder if it's worth to invest in a new battery though
23:42:37  <glx> that's why I got a new one
23:42:42  <Bjarni> it wasn't even a high end phone to begin with
23:43:23  <Bjarni> usually I'm around a power supply when I need it though
23:43:38  <Bjarni> 12V,24V or 230V
23:43:53  <Gonozal_VIII> i got a new one because i switched to a different company and i coudn't unlock it
23:44:21  <glx> siemens c25, and now I have an alcatel OT 511
23:44:54  <Bjarni>  <Gonozal_VIII> i got a new one because i switched to a different company and i coudn't unlock it <-- here the people who sells you the phone has to unlock it for free after 6 months
23:45:03  <glx> same here
23:45:12  <Bjarni> could be an EU rule
23:45:21  <ln-> we didn't have locked phones at all before 3G.
23:45:24  <Gonozal_VIII> never heard of that
23:45:35  <glx> though I didn't unlock any of my phone ;)
23:45:38  <ln-> and even now, only 3G phones are allowed to be locked.
23:45:39  <Bjarni> to allow free competition between the phone companies
23:46:03  <glx> apple will have problem with iphone ;)
23:46:22  <Bjarni> <glx> though I didn't unlock any of my phone ;) <-- I did... when I learned that I could cut my phone bill by around 70% by doing so
23:46:24  <ln-> iphone is already being sold unlocked in germany.
23:46:56  <Bjarni> iPhone is a real problem.... I wonder what will happen
23:47:14  <Eddi|zuHause> ln-: for 999€
23:47:21  <ln-> Bjarni: next february you'll be porting OTTD for it.
23:47:27  <ln-> Eddi|zuHause: yeah. cheap as bread.
23:47:29  <mikl> In Denmark, we've always* had locked phones - but the vendor is required to fork over the codes on demand when you've had the phone for 6 months
23:47:30  <Bjarni> but I know what will not happen: I will not stand in line to become one of the first to get one
23:47:49  <Eddi|zuHause> but as i understood, they still have lawsuits going on wether they have to sell them unlocked or not
23:48:08  <mikl> that works fairly well - we have cheap phones, but we're not locked in for an unreasonable amount of time
23:48:13  <Bjarni> <ln-> Bjarni: next february you'll be porting OTTD for it. <-- I considered it but then I would have problems with screen size
23:48:32  <ln-> that's true.
23:48:34  <Gonozal_VIII> my old phone was a siemens a55... i think... and now i have a nokia 1110i.. or something
23:48:39  <Eddi|zuHause> the only phone i ever had said i could get the unlock codes for free after 2 years
23:48:53  <ln-> Bjarni: but if only running a dedicated server, that doesn't matter.
23:49:27  <mikl> ln-: the question is - why would you want to have a dedicated server on your iPhone?
23:49:41  <ln-> mikl: to attract females.
23:50:06  <Bjarni> my ISP locked my internet connection as well for 6 months... well they said that but when I upgraded the speed I got a slower speed instead and two bills... turned out that the problem was that they locked it for 2/1 years instead of 1/2 years
23:50:07  <mikl> ln-: I suppose that is an option... Humans have always had strange mating preferences ;)
23:50:15  <Bjarni> that was a real mess to clean up :(
23:51:07  <Bjarni> and the really stupid thing about it was that the lock prevented me from getting a higher speed at the same ISP :P
23:52:01  * ln- has 10/10 Mbit/s
23:52:07  <Bjarni> even though according to their conditions the lock shouldn't be a problem if I wanted to upgrade to a faster (read: more expensive) connection
23:52:09  * SmatZ doesn't
23:52:20  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... my newgrf directory disappeared...
23:52:23  <Eddi|zuHause> very strange...
23:52:37  <Gonozal_VIII> gnomes!
23:52:51  <Eddi|zuHause> 1. gather newgrfs
23:52:53  * mikl has 8/2 mbit
23:52:53  <Eddi|zuHause> 2. ???
23:52:57  <DaleStan> I told you rm -rf was a bad idea.
23:52:58  <Eddi|zuHause> 3. profit!!
23:53:00  <Bjarni> ln-: the owner of the copper cables here considers upstream something to be avoided if possible so in extreme cases we can get 1,5 mb upstream... not more
23:53:10  <glx> Eddi|zuHause: too much SP ;)
23:53:10  <Bjarni> and preferable not more than 512 kb
23:53:19  <orudge> I have 832kbps upstream here, and that's the most they offer on a standard ADSL connection
23:53:36  <Bjarni> default 128 kbit upstream
23:53:36  <glx> 1023 up here
23:53:39  <mikl> Bjarni: it's not so bad after they've started rolling out ADSL2+
23:53:44  <orudge> most ADSL Max connections are 448kbps upstream, standard ADSL is 288kbs up
23:53:44  <Bjarni> do any of you fancy a 4096/128 connection?
23:53:49  <mikl> I have that here, works admirably
23:53:54  <SmatZ> 4096/512 here
23:53:57  <Gonozal_VIII> 3mbit down, 384 kbit up
23:54:01  <Eddi|zuHause> i have something like 64kbit up
23:54:03  <orudge> 8132/832 here
23:54:12  <orudge> *8192
23:54:19  <orudge> (Although, in practice, it's closer to 6.5Mbps
23:54:20  <orudge> )
23:54:22  <mikl> 8192/2048 :)
23:54:22  * ln- is connected through Cat5e/6 and optic fibre, no DSL technique at any point.
23:54:25  <glx> up to 20Mb/1Mb, but I can't get more than 4.5Mb
23:54:39  <mikl> ln-: unfair!
23:54:42  * orudge has 100Mbps down/up in comp sci though
23:54:48  <orudge> and indeed, I had that last year and the year before
23:55:12  <orudge> was the best result I got, I think, on
23:55:12  <ln-> mikl: the benefits of student apartments.
23:55:15  <glx> we'll have 100/50 with optic fiber (one day)
23:55:26  <Bjarni> <mikl> Bjarni: it's not so bad after they've started rolling out ADSL2+ <-- it's limited where you can get that and they still charge you a whole lot for upstream compared to other countries
23:55:58  <Bjarni> surprisingly Denmark has a whole lot of fast internet connections compared to other countries while we pay twice as much for the same speed
23:56:22  <mikl> Bjarni: that's right - monopoly bastards...
23:56:31  <Gonozal_VIII> 3mbit is 50 euro/month
23:56:41  <glx> 29.9€ here
23:57:20  <glx> including TV and free phone to more than 50 countries
23:57:43  <Gonozal_VIII> used to be 2mbit limited to 15gb traffic for the same price
23:57:54  <Gonozal_VIII> including nothing
23:58:04  <ln-> 24/1 is 49.90€ here, 2/1 is 33€, 8/1 is 39€
23:58:26  <mikl> bleh, is 'orribly broken
23:58:34  <ln-> my 10/10: 0€
23:58:46  <mikl> the best way to test your connection (downstream at any rate) is torrents :)
23:58:59  <orudge> well
23:59:02  <orudge> downstream if it's a private torrent
23:59:05  <orudge> upstream if it's a public torrent
23:59:09  <orudge> in my experience :P
23:59:17  <mikl> I usually peak at 832 KB/s
23:59:19  <glx> mikl: but that depends on seeders
23:59:27  <ln-> how's minitel doing?
23:59:37  <mikl> which means I get more or less what I pay for
23:59:55  <Eddi|zuHause> well, this is the right time to set up a common newgrf directory for all checkouts...

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