Config
Log for #openttd on 8th January 2008:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
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00:24:09  <Eddi|zuHause> "* SmatZ tried booting into Windows and [...] got ~10 BSOD" <- well, i could have told you beforehand ;)
00:34:25  <SmatZ> :)
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01:56:01  <UnderBuilder> idea for new language for tt-forums: engrish!
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07:21:35  <peter__> 'lo
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07:49:58  <Gonozal_VIII> hi peter
07:50:30  <Gonozal_VIII> you really eat that stuff? http://www.urbanext.uiuc.edu/veggies/images/rhubarb.jpg :S
07:51:00  <Gonozal_VIII> how much do you get paid for that?
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09:25:43  <Wolf01> hello
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09:36:40  <peter__> hi
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10:41:09  <s3mt3x> moin
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10:56:08  <dih> hello
11:00:39  <dih> looked like bigger planes dont slow down when circling over small airfields
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11:13:11  <dih> does the HQ have any influence on any rating (player, station, local authority)?
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11:37:52  <jp> !help
11:37:57  <dih> ?
11:38:06  <jp> sorry, wrong window :)
11:41:28  <Rubidium> dih: could have, but thats an indirect effect
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11:53:16  <dih> indirect in which way
11:53:42  <dih> Rubidium: what affect 'could' it have, and how?
11:54:18  <Rubidium> more passengers coming to a station probably causing more waiting passengers causing a lower rating
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11:55:47  <dih> so it could not affect any other cargo and any other rating?
11:56:38  <Rubidium> indirectly it can (more passenger trains -> more congestion -> more waiting cargo at other stations)
11:57:40  <dih> right - ok
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12:38:15  <roboman> gnight
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12:48:23  <holden> hi all
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13:05:06  <LA[lord]> hey
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13:23:43  <dih> hey la
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13:34:10  <Draakon> hello
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13:48:06  <Roujin> ah finally
13:48:32  <Roujin> struggled hard to get irc working over the damn university internet access ><
13:48:39  <Roujin> g'day everyone
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14:02:09  <LA[lord]> hey Roujin
14:04:01  <LA[lord]> !fish
14:04:11  <LA[lord]> hah...doesn't work here :(
14:06:17  <Roujin> sorry, i don't understand what you wrote oO
14:06:50  <Roujin> if that's some kind of insider joke then i'm probably on the outside :P
14:07:04  <LA[lord]> :P
14:07:18  <LA[lord]> it's a command in #openttdcoop
14:07:32  <LA[lord]> 	<publicserver>	Today's fish is Trout a la creme. Enjoy your meal.
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14:09:07  <Roujin> i see ^^
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14:10:04  <Roujin> anyone besides me been given a strange red message when autosave happens in the latest revisions?
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14:10:48  <Roujin> "Saving still in progress, please wait until it is finished"
14:11:12  <LA[lord]> does it happen only every month start?
14:11:14  <Roujin> something wrong on my pc or is it a bug?
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14:11:31  <Roujin> yep every month on the autosave..
14:12:05  <dih> i dont use autosave, would not know :-D
14:12:06  <dih> @OpenTTD youngest
14:12:12  <DorpsGek> dih: latest: r11781
14:12:20  <dih> @OpenTTD thelog
14:12:20  <DorpsGek> dih: r11781 log: -Codechange: variable scope and initialization
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14:12:40  <Roujin> appeared somewhen inbetween the latest 10 revisions
14:12:48  <Roujin> for me that is
14:12:52  <LA[lord]> but if you change the autosave e.g every week, does it happen then too?
14:12:52  <dih> @OpenTTD commit 11781
14:12:55  <DorpsGek> dih: Commit by peter1138 :: r11781 trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp (2008-01-07 22:38:30 UTC)
14:12:56  <DorpsGek> dih: -Codechange: variable scope and initialization
14:13:07  <LA[lord]> for every week or just every month start
14:13:15  <LA[lord]> I might have an idea...
14:13:34  <Roujin> if no one else encounters that its maybe some setting I acidentally broke or something
14:14:00  <Roujin> lord: every week?? there's not such an autosave setting :P
14:14:18  <dih> i dont even think there is a weekly loop
14:14:32  <LA[lord]> some weeks/months devs forced autosave for tracking an ugly bug
14:14:43  <Belugas> yup
14:14:48  <LA[lord]> and this happens monthly
14:14:59  <Belugas> newhouse count been wrong
14:15:01  <LA[lord]> even if you have autosave turned off
14:15:40  <Roujin> eh.. so why does it display an error message for me? because i have autosave on anyways and it tries to autosave two times simultaniously?
14:15:54  <LA[lord]> and maybe it tries to save twice, one for forced autosave and one for normal one
14:15:59  <LA[lord]> at the same time...
14:16:09  <Roujin> oh in fact
14:16:21  <Roujin> turning off autosave lets the error not appear anymore
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14:17:45  <Roujin> the forced autosave should disable the normal one then or something similar i think ;)
14:18:17  <glx> Roujin: disable autosave for now :)
14:19:52  <Roujin> done ;) just wanted to inform you guys :P
14:20:06  <glx> we know it ;)
14:20:48  <LA[lord]> but have you caught the evil bug?
14:21:02  <Roujin> but i'm wondering why such a debug method is added to trunk...
14:21:19  <dih> if they had - forced autosave would not be in the code anymore
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14:22:13  <Roujin> only reason for that would be that users could help spotting it.. no?
14:22:24  <glx> because we don't have a way to reproduce, we only know what happens, but not how and when, so we check town pop monthly and asserts if internal and recalculated are different else we save it
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14:23:01  <glx> that way we have savegame and command logs to "replay" it
14:23:02  <dih> what happens then?
14:24:18  <glx> the problem is for some yet unknown reasons, the town population is incorrect (usually less than real pop)
14:24:44  <glx> and we you delete houses you can get "negative" population
14:25:01  <Roujin> uh, speaking of towns and population... could you give me a hint on how passenger and mail generation is handled?
14:25:39  <Roujin> i guess it's the properties "population" and "mail_generation" and if they're > 0, it generates pax/mail.. right?
14:25:50  <Roujin> *properties of HouseSpec
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14:30:28  <Belugas> Roujin, check on TileLoop_Town, town_cmd.cpp:396
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14:34:51  <Roujin> thanks, one question about that:
14:34:52  <Roujin> if (HasBit(hs->callback_mask, CBM_HOUSE_PRODUCE_CARGO)) {
14:35:12  <Roujin> does this line differentiate between standard and newGrf houses?
14:35:22  <Belugas> not exactly
14:35:30  <glx> the check is done before that
14:35:59  <Belugas> a grf house can have the flag set, but it's not mandatory
14:36:12  <Roujin> and standard ones?
14:36:25  <glx> they don't have any callbacks
14:36:25  <Belugas> standard ones never have th flag set, of course
14:36:38  <Roujin> ok, that's what i kind of guessed ;)
14:37:23  <hylje> having city-like industries came to me the other day
14:37:31  <Belugas> callbacks are code supplied by grf (roughly). so standard houses not being bound by grf, they have no callbacks
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14:37:45  <Belugas> hylje, as you can see, it's already there.
14:37:54  <Belugas> you just have to code them in grf ;)
14:38:00  <hylje> that seems more like industry-like cities
14:38:18  <hylje> ill elaborate
14:38:29  <Belugas> whatever you want :) it all comes down to producing stuff
14:38:51  <hylje> industries would be very small at first (or randomly sized, much like towns)
14:38:51  <Belugas> and accept, of course
14:39:09  <Roujin> but one thing seems strange to me.. the else part that handles all standard houses does the same thing for every house, is that right?
14:39:12  <hylje> good service makes those small industries grow in size and production much like cities do
14:39:45  <Roujin> there's no differentiation between big and small ones, just 1/8 chance every tile_loop? (if i got it right)
14:40:12  <Roujin> oh, now i see it
14:40:16  <Belugas> in this context, we are talking abot a tile-house, Roujin...
14:40:19  <Belugas> not a complete house
14:42:31  <hylje> Belugas: does newgrf support that kind of sprawling industries?
14:43:15  <glx> hylje: that means changing layout after construction
14:43:24  <hylje> i read that as a no :)
14:43:48  <Roujin> okay, one more noobish question (sorry): GB(r, 0, 8) <-- can't find this function or macro
14:44:13  <glx> it's a function, in core/bitmath_func.fpp
14:44:23  <Roujin> thanks, will look it up
14:44:40  <glx> returns bits 0-7 from r
14:44:44  <Belugas> hylje, indeed, it's a no.
14:45:38  <Noldo> how about houses that produce cargo?
14:45:40  <Belugas> as to if it can be made, i guess so, but ...  i doubt it is really worth it
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14:45:57  <Roujin> first is input, second offset, third length?
14:46:00  <Belugas> Noldo, it aleardy can, just loo at the sources
14:46:00  <hylje> it'd be a different kind of city
14:46:16  <hylje> instead of passengers producing e.g. coal
14:46:19  <glx> Roujin: read the comment in header file ;)
14:46:38  * hylje adds that to his to-do-list, under heading "someday"
14:46:43  <Noldo> :)
14:48:27  <Roujin> i'm impressed by the bitmagic in ottd every time xD
14:54:56  <Roujin> can a newgrf house have 256 production callbacks? O_O
14:55:25  <Roujin> that's enourmous xD
14:55:58  <Roujin> well thanks for all your kind help, I've learned a lot again :)
14:56:16  <glx> <Roujin> can a newgrf house have 256 production callbacks? O_O <-- why not :)
14:56:57  <peter__> hmmz
14:59:39  <hylje> that's just gonna run out any minute
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15:10:08  <Roujin> 			*b++ = cargo;
15:11:14  <Roujin> i hope this gives address b the value cargo first and then increase the pointer by one...
15:11:22  <Roujin> if not i screwed something up now ^^
15:11:46  <pv2b> Roujin: it does.
15:12:10  <pv2b> if by "increase the pointer by one" you mean "increase the pointer by one tiems the size of the data type pointed to by said pointer
15:12:14  <pv2b> "
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15:14:14  <Roujin> yes, that was an abbreviation :P
15:14:39  <ludde> pv2b: the pointer is incremented by one, the underlying cpu register is incremented by sizeof(*pointer)
15:15:31  <pv2b> ludde: uint32 *p = (uint32 *) 0x100; printf("%p\n", p+1); gives an output of 0x104.
15:16:21  <pv2b> it all depends on the definition you have of "increments by one" :-)
15:18:36  <ludde> ++ increments by one
15:18:41  <ludde> += 1 increments by one
15:19:19  <ludde> in my opinion
15:19:23  <pv2b> by one "what" though? :-)
15:19:29  <ludde> exactly!
15:19:38  <ludde> :p
15:19:48  <ludde> by one element
15:20:00  <pv2b> mm. so "b" is incremented by one.
15:20:07  <pv2b> but not "the pointer" ;-)
15:20:14  <ludde> b is the pointer
15:20:21  <ludde> it points to an element
15:20:24  <pv2b> no, b is a variable containing the pointer :-)
15:20:55  <pv2b> it's all semantics anyway
15:22:14  <glx> 1 === sizeof(element)
15:22:30  <ludde> p in 'void *p' is a pointer, as much as i in 'int i' is an integer
15:26:37  <Roujin> okay, sorry for breaking off a discussion :P i have to go now, see you later :)
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15:27:43  <UnderBuilder> I'm melting
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15:33:37  <Lord> hey glx, are you still familiar with the town name generation code?
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15:34:02  <glx> a little (I wrote action F support)
15:34:34  <Lord> good, I could use some info for a project I'm doing.
15:34:56  <Lord> Am I right that name parts are more likely to be used the longer they are?
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15:36:26  <glx> I don't understand :/
15:37:14  <Lord> :-) I'm sorry, I'll try again. The longer the name parts, the more likely they are to found in a town name, right?
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15:37:29  <Lord> to _be_ found
15:37:58  <frosch123> I doubt that, how do you come to such a conclusion?
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15:38:53  <TrueBrain> GENERAL NOTICE: openttd.org will be unavailable for the next 15 minutes
15:38:57  <TrueBrain> (and all his related services)
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15:40:43  <Lord> I might have to say that I'm referring to 0.1.4, because I need to know the original TTD behaviour
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15:42:18  <glx> Lord: you mean array size?
15:43:01  <Lord> the name part arrays are onedimensional, meaning that the are just in sequence. MakeEnglishCityName (like others) then more or less randomly jumps into this sequence and thakes the one parts it hit.
15:43:25  <glx> the part is chosen randomly
15:44:21  <Lord> well it looks like in openttd 0.1.4 not the actual part, but the array "position" (offset) is chose at random, which makes longer parts more likely to be chosen
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15:45:02  <glx> paste the line
15:45:07  <Draakon> hello
15:45:26  <Draakon> can anyone explain how can i remove Placment Limitations in ECS Vectors?
15:45:39  <Lord> e.g.: AppendPart(&buf, GETNUM(4, NUM_ENGLISH_2), english_2);
15:45:49  <glx> Draakon: you can't unless you modify the grf
15:46:21  <Lord> (line 134 in namegen.c of openttd-0.1.4)
15:46:28  <glx> Lord: a lot of thing changed since this version ;)
15:46:35  <Draakon> glx: what should i edit there?
15:46:48  <Lord> I know... :-)
15:46:54  <glx> Draakon: callbacks
15:47:10  <Draakon> glx: what callback?
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15:48:03  <glx> callback 2F I think
15:48:29  <Draakon> oeh
15:48:46  * Draakon doesn't know nothing about GRF Coding
15:48:59  <TrueBrain> OpenTTD is back online. Have a nice day!
15:49:02  *** TrueBrain [~truelight@145.118.72.134] has left #openttd [So long and tnx for all the fish]
15:49:28  <Draakon> it has been here for 1h
15:49:31  <Lord> anyhow, do you know where I can find the american town name parts (other than by hexediting the exe) which were available in original TTD? They seem to have gotten kicked out in OpenTTD
15:49:45  <Draakon> or more
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15:51:47  <dih> Draakon: openttd is on a vps, and i think TB knows a little more about that vps than you :-)
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15:58:57  <Lord> glx: do you know Jango's email address?
15:59:03  <glx> no
15:59:24  <Lord> he's not registred on the forums, is he?
16:00:02  <glx> dunno
16:00:32  <Lord> ok, thanks for your help anyways, cya
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16:07:54  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11782 /trunk/src/oldloader.cpp: -Codechange: e->type was used before being properly initialized (it relied on previous runs) but there is no need to invalidate window data during game load as the windows in question cannot be open.
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16:10:33  <dih> hello Bjarni
16:12:25  <LA[lord]> oh not again...:D
16:14:08  <dih> :-(
16:19:14  <LA[lord]> good bye.. I think I'll be back in few hours
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