Log for #openttd on 7th February 2008:
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00:13:45  <Gonozal_VIII> compiling new version of my Gonozal_VIIIIN :D^^
00:14:40  <Gonozal_VIII> r12075
00:16:33  <fjb> Have fun...
00:16:54  <Gonozal_VIII> compile still running, i hope it works
00:17:21  <Gonozal_VIII> i started from zero with the patches and added a new one
00:18:29  <Gonozal_VIII> tested all patches seperately with 12075 and they all worked... if the merged patch works is another question
00:20:49  <fjb> You will know in a few minutes.
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01:03:35  <Gonozal_VIII>
01:03:39  <Gonozal_VIII> yay new version
01:03:44  <Gonozal_VIII> ^^
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01:09:59  <fjb> GonozalIN
01:10:15  <fjb> Passenger destinations patch is missing...
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01:41:00  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHausen D:
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01:41:23  <Sacro> Die Eddi|zuHause2, Die
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01:57:04  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: glx * r12076 /trunk/src/waypoint.cpp: -Fix: when reusing a renamed deleted waypoint, keep the new name
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01:59:32  <Gonozal_VIII> hmm configure patches window is too small
02:00:46  <Gonozal_VIII> no... passenger destination patch has too many settings
02:01:02  <glx> ask the author to put a new tab :)
02:01:36  <Gonozal_VIII> i guess fixing the crash when you click on station rating has higher priority^^
02:02:01  <glx> and the desyncs ;)
02:02:12  <Sacro> and the pbs
02:02:18  <Gonozal_VIII> pbs?
02:02:30  <Gonozal_VIII> what has that to do with anything?^^
02:02:30  <glx> pbs is not in passenger destination
02:02:37  <Gonozal_VIII> well, it is in mine
02:03:09  <Gonozal_VIII> integrated without problems in my multipatch thingy
02:03:20  <Gonozal_VIII> without new problems..
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02:04:58  <Sacro> XD
02:05:18  <glx> lol
02:06:18  <Gonozal_VIII> well.. seems to work as long as you don't click the bad button
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02:11:51  <Gonozal_VIII> strange how easy it was to include passenger destination patch with all the others
02:13:16  <Gonozal_VIII> and it was for r12032 and i just plugged it into r12075 with 8 other patches without conflicts that i had to fix manually
02:19:56  <Gonozal_VIII> don't you want to make a compile on request server where people can upload a .patch or .diff file, select the os and then get the binary (link to the binary) mailed to them when it's finished?^^
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02:21:31  <glx> Gonozal_VIII: what did you do to blathijs?
02:21:48  <Gonozal_VIII> how do you know that it was me :O
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02:24:41  <Gonozal_VIII> ah.. (Read error: Connection reset by guilloux).
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03:25:35  <Gonozal_VIII> < fjb> Passenger destinations patch is missing... <-- is not
03:26:41  <Gonozal_VIII> hmm old log
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03:27:36  <Kolky> ive just installed 0.6.0-beta3 and i get this: is this known to be a bug?
03:28:40  <Gonozal_VIII> no 1000 seperator?
03:28:57  <Gonozal_VIII> ah income
03:29:07  <Gonozal_VIII> should look for the red boxes first^^
03:29:19  <Kolky> :>
03:29:29  <Kolky> it seems to work on the AI chars
03:29:31  <Kolky> but not on me
03:30:48  <Gonozal_VIII> money doesn't get added too or only missing in the finances window?
03:31:02  <Kolky> seems to me, it doesnt get added either
03:31:37  <Gonozal_VIII> strange.. did you try with a newer version?
03:31:59  <Kolky> this is the latest beta
03:32:28  <Gonozal_VIII>
03:32:49  <Kolky> dindt try that
03:32:50  <Kolky> sec
03:33:41  <Gonozal_VIII> if it works there, it's already fixed, no need to file a bug report for it then
03:35:57  <Kolky> still the same imho
03:36:30  <Gonozal_VIII> is it an old game or a new one?
03:37:46  <Kolky>
03:38:12  <Kolky> its a selfmade scenario, but only thing i did was use a heightmap, add random cities and random tree's :S
03:39:28  <Gonozal_VIII> hmm i get the aircraft income correctly
03:40:41  <Kolky> i used the game files from here: thats correct, right?
03:41:15  <Gonozal_VIII> the missing files are only sprites and sounds, shouldn't change anything
03:42:19  <Gonozal_VIII> oooh
03:42:23  <Kolky> ill clear my install and try again
03:42:25  <GoneWacko> buffer overflow in the sprite handler causing issues with gameplay code :>
03:42:31  <Gonozal_VIII> i should look at teh non red square stuff too^^
03:42:48  <Gonozal_VIII> you're using transfer
03:43:07  <Gonozal_VIII> that drops the passengers off at the airport to wait for another vehicle
03:43:30  <Kolky> oh but why does it display money
03:43:55  <Gonozal_VIII> that's what you would get if it was the final destination
03:43:56  <Kolky> ok that was very noobish
03:44:00  <Kolky> sorry :(
03:44:15  <Kolky> guess its cause its so late :x
03:44:37  <Gonozal_VIII> yes, for me too, should have noticed that much faster^^
03:45:32  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r12077 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Cleanup: Remove files not used anymore from project files
03:46:26  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm that commit looks like trouble
03:47:30  <glx> Kolky: you are using transferts
03:47:37  <Kolky> yeah i noticed
03:47:44  <Gonozal_VIII> i noticed :P
03:49:36  <GoneWacko> I would have noticed if it wasn't that the screenshots did not work for me before :o
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03:56:06  <Gonozal_VIII> the removal of those files didn't break any of the patches, yay
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04:07:07  <Gonozal_VIII> what's up with those newlines at the end of rail_gui.cpp?
04:07:38  <Gonozal_VIII> they keep getting more and more...
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04:15:33  <glx> extra newline in the diff probably
04:15:58  <Gonozal_VIII> ah, possible
04:16:48  <Gonozal_VIII> always get unresolved conflict there becase of the number of newlines^^
04:18:16  <Gonozal_VIII> i've included roujins terraform patch now too :-)
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04:22:31  <Belugas> GonozIN
04:22:53  <Gonozal_VIII> ooooook assertion failed
04:24:56  <Gonozal_VIII> hmm raising and lowering land is outside of command proc table
04:25:28  <Gonozal_VIII> ah, probably missing ',' again
04:25:30  <Belugas> drag and draw?
04:25:46  <Gonozal_VIII> yes drag and draw
04:26:40  <Gonozal_VIII>      assert((cmd & 0xFF) < lengthof(_command_proc_table));
04:26:43  <Gonozal_VIII> that fails
04:28:25  <Gonozal_VIII> strange, no missing , in the table
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04:29:36  <Gonozal_VIII> what's CMD_AUTO?
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04:47:50  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r12078 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Cleanup: Add missing headers on project files
04:48:42  <Gonozal_VIII> did that have something to do with the assertion?
04:51:29  <Belugas> nope
04:51:39  <Belugas> which assertion?
04:52:11  <Gonozal_VIII> assert((cmd & 0xFF) < lengthof(_command_proc_table));
04:52:43  <Belugas> clean trunk?
04:53:21  <Gonozal_VIII> nope
04:53:46  <Gonozal_VIII> [05:25:30] Belugas: drag and draw?
04:53:46  <Gonozal_VIII> [05:25:46] Guest689: yes drag and draw
04:53:57  <Gonozal_VIII> stupid nick stuff...
04:56:14  <Belugas> sorry, boy, you're on your own
04:56:19  <Belugas> enough to do on my side
04:56:53  <Belugas> in fact, i've got enough
04:56:56  <Belugas> i's late
04:56:58  <Belugas> bed
04:57:11  <Gonozal_VIII> sure... not your problem... i guess he forgot to add something to that array thingy
04:57:35  <Gonozal_VIII> you know it's kind of a bit later here?^^
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05:51:40  <Gonozal_VIII> tomatos may be slow... but eventually they catch up
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06:37:27  <De_ghosty> anyone have a hp laptop?
06:38:20  <Forked> yup
06:38:34  <Forked> nx7010 .. it's a few years old now
06:38:43  <Forked> meh, time to get ready for work
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06:59:19  <Gekz> Translate my soul.
06:59:20  <Gekz> Muahaha
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06:59:27  <Gekz> What language is my soul in?
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07:03:24  <Gonozal_VIII> piglatin
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07:17:35  <Gekz> peter1138: I demand the translation :D
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07:32:04  <Forked> urgh, did I just break some licensing stuff by just putting win32 binary up without the source?
07:33:20  <De_ghosty> no idea
07:33:28  <Noldo> well not that much because the place where you can get the sources is quite obvious from the thread context
07:33:33  <De_ghosty> but i can't get my laptop to boot from partition it came with
07:33:41  <De_ghosty> so i'll jsut dl the damn vista cd..
07:34:04  <De_ghosty> it's legal in canada :)
07:36:15  <De_ghosty> hey
07:36:23  <Forked> ello!
07:36:29  <De_ghosty> i have enough ram for the whole os and whatever i am running
07:36:35  <De_ghosty> how i kill the window page file?
07:36:47  <Hendikins> I'd suggest not doing that.
07:36:56  <Hendikins> Even if you've got 4 gig of RAM or something.
07:37:29  <De_ghosty> well
07:37:39  <De_ghosty> can i minimize the page file until it's needed?
07:37:45  <De_ghosty> cuz
07:37:51  <De_ghosty> swapping is slowwwwwwwwwwwww
07:38:01  <Hendikins> Most apps allocate more RAM than they need, so swapping the excess allocated out to disk is actually a good thing.
07:38:12  <De_ghosty> that's ok
07:38:16  <De_ghosty> i have more
07:38:17  <De_ghosty> lol
07:38:18  <Hendikins> Want to improve the speed of swapping? Set a fixed size swap file.
07:38:33  <Forked> mmm. coffee.
07:38:41  <De_ghosty> yea it's at 200 now
07:38:41  <Hendikins> De_ghosty: Yeah, but it is better to keep the allocated but unused RAM available instead of doing nothing.
07:39:47  <De_ghosty> or is it?
07:40:15  <Hendikins> Yes.
07:40:34  <Hendikins> Because it isn't swapping out actual data, and the physical RAM freed up can be used for things like disk caching.
07:41:13  <Hendikins> The main performance killer with Windows swapping is the constant resizing of the swapfile. Hence my suggestion of setting it to a fixed size.
07:41:19  <Hendikins> (Bonus: it won't get fragmented)
07:41:53  <De_ghosty> what u set it to?
07:42:21  <Hendikins> It would vary depending on amount of RAM.
07:42:25  <De_ghosty> 4 gb
07:42:29  <De_ghosty> xp
07:42:35  <Hendikins> You poor thing.
07:42:43  <De_ghosty> i know
07:42:52  <De_ghosty> but 2 gb sticks were too expensive
07:42:56  <De_ghosty> and vista just sucks
07:42:57  <De_ghosty> :)
07:43:01  <Hendikins> I mean the XP part.
07:43:06  <De_ghosty> yea i know
07:43:07  <Hendikins> Well, Windows in general.
07:43:12  <De_ghosty> it's still faster
07:43:17  <De_ghosty> well
07:43:27  <De_ghosty> app are made for window
07:43:36  <Hendikins> My next box is going to be have dual quad core processors, and a minimum of 8 gig RAM
07:43:37  <De_ghosty> it'll be slower if i run nix under it
07:43:47  <Hendikins> I'm just waiting for the B3 stepping Opterons
07:43:58  <Hendikins> De_ghosty: My laptop is faster with Linux than Windows.
07:44:13  <De_ghosty> but u don't play games on it
07:44:14  <De_ghosty> :)
07:44:21  <Hendikins> Pfft, games.
07:44:35  <De_ghosty> ur in openttd
07:44:36  <De_ghosty> 11
07:44:37  <De_ghosty> lol
07:44:46  <Hendikins> OpenTTD runs very nicely on Linux, I might add.
07:44:55  <De_ghosty> ah well
07:44:59  <De_ghosty> i need more
07:46:16  <peter1138> dual quad core :o
07:47:08  <Hendikins> Yes. dual quad core.
07:47:33  <Hendikins> And guess what, it won't be running Windows.
07:47:44  <Hendikins> Xen again...
07:47:58  <Hendikins> ...I should probably be slapped for that pun.
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07:49:18  <Gonozal_VIII> wtf dual quad core
07:49:40  <Hendikins> Yes
07:49:58  <Gonozal_VIII> isn't that octcore or something then?
07:50:14  <Hendikins> No. It is dual CPUs, with 4 cores per CPU.
07:50:47  <Hendikins> Just like my current pair of single core CPUs does not equal dual core.
07:50:52  <Gonozal_VIII> anything that can actually use that then?
07:50:59  <Hendikins> make -j :P
07:51:15  <Gonozal_VIII> try with openttd :P
07:51:18  <Hendikins> It will make an awesome build box.
07:51:36  <Hendikins> Gonozal_VIII: I was primarily going to be doing it with Mozilla, to be honest.
07:51:47  <Gonozal_VIII> ?
07:52:09  <Hendikins> Parallel Mozilla builds.
07:52:17  <Gonozal_VIII> uh... why?
07:52:27  <Hendikins> Autofox
07:52:32  <Gonozal_VIII> ?
07:52:39  <Hendikins> That, and I'm the x86_64 build contributor for SeaMonkey
07:53:05  * Hendikins does a LOT of Mozilla building
07:53:11  <Gonozal_VIII> those little shrimp thingies?
07:53:47  <Hendikins>
07:54:50  <Gonozal_VIII> browser part like firefox?
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07:55:26  <Gonozal_VIII> because i use firefox and firefox rox^^
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07:58:37  <Gonozal_VIII> that looks like netscape...
07:59:21  <Tefad> firefox pisses me off
07:59:26  <Tefad> i'd rather be using webkit
07:59:34  <Tefad> firefox 4.0 might actually be decent.
07:59:43  <Gonozal_VIII> what's wrong with ff?
07:59:45  <Tefad> firefox is full of crazy marshalling.
07:59:54  <Gonozal_VIII> marshalling?
08:00:27  <Tefad>
08:01:08  <Gonozal_VIII> so?
08:01:16  <Tefad> roadmap says 3.0 is to have reduced marshalling, and i think 4.0 is to have it gone completely
08:01:23  <Tefad> it makes the browser very inefficient
08:01:35  <Gonozal_VIII> inefficient in what sense?
08:01:46  <Tefad> performance
08:01:48  <Tefad> for one
08:02:07  <Tefad> i just want an alternative is all
08:02:25  <Tefad> firefox eats up half my RAM and i have to restart it like i used to do windows 98.
08:03:20  <Gonozal_VIII> didn't do that to me since update to 1.5 or something
08:03:59  <Gonozal_VIII> oh, i did a bad
08:04:37  <Gonozal_VIII> now it opens ~120 instances of that seamonkey thingy
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08:05:13  <Hendikins> Tefad: Part of that is it automagically choosing a cache size.
08:06:08  <Gonozal_VIII> read the logs, changed pagefile size from system managed to 2000 - 2000
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08:15:55  <Hendikins> And for trivia value, I'm running my browser with an 8 meg memory cache and disabled disk cache.
08:16:17  <Hendikins> I've got a squid proxy running on my network. A browser disk cache is somewhat redundant.
08:17:00  <Gonozal_VIII> no idea what you're talking about but i'm sure it's lots of fun
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08:19:56  <Tefad> i have squid proxy too
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09:06:37  <Gonozal_VIII> <-- teh yays!
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09:12:43  <Gonozal_VIII> oh, peter still up too
09:14:31  <peter1138> As it's 9:14am, I don't think 'still' applies...
09:15:00  <Gonozal_VIII> 10:15 am :-)
09:15:53  <Noldo> 11 !
09:16:41  <Gonozal_VIII> 11 zum ersten... zum zweiten.. und der zuschlag geht an noldo!
09:17:03  <Gonozal_VIII> (that was german i guess)
09:18:04  <Gonozal_VIII> somebody downloaded my new patch merge Gonozal_VIIIIN thingy :D
09:18:27  <Gonozal_VIII> Downloaded 1 time <-- see?!
09:18:49  <Gonozal_VIII> now i'm a star!
09:19:56  <peter1138> You'll curse the day you ever made a combined patch available...
09:20:18  <Gonozal_VIII> hehehe
09:20:40  <Gonozal_VIII> i can always just start ignoring it and pretend it never happened^^
09:21:16  <Noldo> you did iy yourself, don't try to fool us
09:22:12  <Gonozal_VIII> why would i download a file, that i uploaded myself some minutes before?^^
09:22:16  <Gonozal_VIII> twice^^
09:22:19  <peter1138> :D
09:22:36  <Noldo> to bump the counter
09:22:44  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
09:23:01  <Gonozal_VIII> wow, 3 downloads now
09:23:22  <Gonozal_VIII> after 20 minutes :D
09:23:33  * Forked compiles
09:23:47  <Gonozal_VIII> that's 216 downloads per day^^
09:23:50  <peter1138> C:\Documents And Settings\Gonozal_VIII\Desktop\mybigpatch.patch
09:23:52  <Forked> haha
09:23:52  <peter1138> C:\Documents And Settings\Gonozal_VIII\Desktop\mybigpatch.patch(1)
09:23:54  <peter1138> C:\Documents And Settings\Gonozal_VIII\Desktop\mybigpatch.patch(2)
09:24:00  <peter1138> We know that's what you have
09:24:39  <Gonozal_VIII> my username on the laptop is not gonozal_viii :P
09:25:03  <Forked> try %userprofile%\Desktop\ next time :p it's bulletproof!
09:25:16  <Forked> unless it's a foreign version of the os.. and it's windows
09:26:51  <Gonozal_VIII> btw that's all just a shameless approach to get people to use my own patch for terrain sprites under unmovables^^
09:27:17  <Gonozal_VIII> or something like that
09:27:31  <Forked> was I not suppose to remove that before patching? :p
09:27:39  <Gonozal_VIII> :P
09:28:30  <Gonozal_VIII> at least i didn't include my version that also draws shores for unmovables^^
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09:28:58  <Gonozal_VIII> that one checks for all unmovables on certain slopes the neighbouring tiles for water^^
09:31:04  <Gonozal_VIII> did it work?
09:32:52  <Forked> it compiled, but I can't start it .. but thats because I'm at work :)
09:33:03  <Gonozal_VIII> ah^^
09:37:34  <peter1138> :o
09:37:42  <peter1138> Lock the doors and turn the sound off
09:37:53  <Forked> glass windows into my office :\
09:38:06  <Gonozal_VIII> baaaad feng shui
09:38:17  <Forked> also there is way too much to do here :p
09:38:42  <Gonozal_VIII> i noticed that you're very busy :P
09:42:04  <Gonozal_VIII> i changed the target of my openttd shortcut to "C:\OpenTTD\openttd.exe -d pbs=2" to see the reserved pbs paths.. but that opens not only the game window but also a console window...
09:44:26  <Gekz> console windows rock
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09:46:06  <peter1138> Gonozal_VIII, put "debug_level pbs=2" in autoexec.scr?
09:46:15  <peter1138> (Just guessing)
09:46:30  <Gonozal_VIII> huh?
09:46:38  <Gonozal_VIII> why would i do that?
09:50:00  <peter1138> It would stop the console window appearing.
09:50:09  <Gonozal_VIII> oh
09:50:10  <peter1138> (If it worked... currently I can't get it to see autoexec.scr :o)
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09:50:46  <Gonozal_VIII> i could change the size of the console window to very tiny^^
09:50:55  <peter1138> ah, it doesn't use search paths
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09:51:26  <Forked> peter1138: the win32 build I put up of rev 12072 with yapp included.. should I also post source in the same directory on my webserver to not violate licensing stuff?
09:52:03  <Forked> <-no good with (reading) licensingstuff :p
09:53:51  <Gonozal_VIII> you think michi would sue you?^^
09:57:15  <peter1138> technically you only need to provide the source when requested
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09:57:38  <peter1138> although presumably you need to specify a way of requesting the source
10:01:41  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12079 /trunk/src/console_cmds.cpp: -Fix: Use search paths when opening console scripts.
10:01:42  <peter1138> There. Now you can use scripts/autoexec.scr properly...
10:02:11  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
10:02:18  <Gonozal_VIII> but i still don't know what that is
10:02:23  <peter1138> ...
10:02:39  <peter1138> It's a list of console commands to automatically execute on start up.
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10:02:57  <Forked> "If you want the source code this is compiled from all you'll have to do is put your right hand on your left big toe, do the hokey pokey, punch a hole in the wall and then yell really loud at me in #openttd" ?
10:03:15  <peter1138> Forked, something like that...
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10:03:45  <Forked> the hole needs to be documented :)
10:03:49  <peter1138> It's only really an issue when someone has their own patch and doesn't include the source patch.
10:04:21  <Forked> ok, thanks
10:05:52  <Forked> I just don't want to step on any toes :) .. or be more annoying than I already am :p
10:06:44  <Gonozal_VIII> yay i found that file
10:07:18  <Forked> Gonozal_VIII: should I make a win32 binary of your combination of patches as well?
10:08:01  <Gonozal_VIII> if you have webspace free for that... would be nice
10:09:03  <Forked> poor vista people
10:09:06  <Gonozal_VIII> windows thinks .scr is a screensaver
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10:11:15  <peter1138> Never judge a file by its extension.
10:11:31  <Gonozal_VIII> yay script thingy works
10:11:41  <Gonozal_VIII> thanks :-)
10:12:28  <Gonozal_VIII> ouch
10:12:44  <Gonozal_VIII> dead end bouncing leads to dead trains
10:12:47  <peter1138> Yup
10:12:52  <peter1138> Known issue...
10:13:03  <Gonozal_VIII> yapf issue...
10:13:25  <peter1138> I'm going to assume that that at least is not the "user's fault" for incorrect signalling.
10:13:36  <peter1138> PBS issue, not Yapf.
10:14:02  <Gonozal_VIII> well as far as i understood pbs reserves the path it gets from yapf
10:14:51  <Gonozal_VIII> and yapf doesn't look beyond the next order or looks for the way back at track ends
10:15:13  <Forked> I sense the lack of will to do anything more work related before lunch .. I guess I'll work in the unused time before I head home :\
10:15:32  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
10:16:04  <peter1138> That gives me 7 hours...
10:16:55  <Gonozal_VIII> hmm it reserves a path with a train on it
10:17:54  <peter1138> Disallowing that, and disallow crossing a reserved path, should remove all possibility of crashes.
10:17:59  <Gonozal_VIII> and that path doesn't get deleted after the crash
10:18:08  <peter1138> For some reason, crashes with PBS seem to be desired by some people.
10:19:14  <Forked> dumdidum.. not the fastest laptop to compile on
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10:19:52  <Forked> there we go..
10:20:17  <Forked> trunk_r12079_long_filename_r12078.patch_07.02.2008_11-19-54.rar
10:20:37  <Gonozal_VIII> should remove all possibility of crashes <-- there are still the trains that drive around without path... lost, no orders, bounced off a track end...
10:21:29  <Gonozal_VIII> even if other trains wait in front of a signal because they are in the way, the pathless will keep moving until they reach the front of a signal... or the front of a train
10:22:31  <Gonozal_VIII> oh strange
10:22:39  <Gonozal_VIII> trains with no orders reserve a path
10:22:44  <Gonozal_VIII> even after bouncing
10:23:26  <Gonozal_VIII> but they come to a complete stop at every signal
10:24:33  <Forked> lunch.
10:24:57  <Gonozal_VIII> now i had two trains crashing that were both on reserved paths
10:25:16  <Gonozal_VIII> they reserved the same signal tile
10:25:32  <peter1138> fun
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10:26:45  <Gonozal_VIII> well... lots of possibilities to let trains crash... but if you know how to use it correctly it improves the station and junction layout a lot
10:28:24  <peter1138> Yeah, no-deadlock through stations are a massive win.
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10:32:40  <Gonozal_VIII> can't think of a good way to get rid of all crashes without trains that stop where they shouldnt (not in front of a signal)
10:36:53  <Gonozal_VIII> for example that: depot, straight track out of the depot that ends in nowhere and 2 pbs signals on that track facing the depot... on the way back are only signal backsides so the trains can't stop anywhere but after the first train passed the second pbs signal, the second train gets a free path from the first to the second
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10:38:01  <Gonozal_VIII> second train waits patiently in front of the second signal until the first train crashes into it..
10:42:22  <Gonozal_VIII> only way to avoid that would be if the first train reserves the full path out of the depot and back without clearing it the first time
10:42:59  <Gonozal_VIII> well... not only way
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10:47:10  <Gonozal_VIII> could also be that way: train reaches end of track (not a station)... it's stuck until you reverse it manually
10:47:48  <Gonozal_VIII> a don't reverse anywhere except in stations policy...
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10:52:44  <Gonozal_VIII> and in depots obviously, can't leave a depot without reversing^^
10:53:30  <Gonozal_VIII> but not in front of signals and not at the end of tracks.. should solve most (or even all) crashes
10:54:47  <Gonozal_VIII> bah... tired... sleep.. good night
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11:27:37  <SmatZ> hello
11:33:07  <pm|away> hi smatz
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11:34:30  <SmatZ> hello planetmaker
11:41:50  <pm|workbreak> with a bit of tuning I really like the PBS patch :)
11:42:02  <pm|workbreak> have you tried it ^^
11:42:09  <pm|workbreak> ^^ ?
11:43:15  <SmatZ> I tried the first version, but it was not very stable - maybe it is better now :)
11:43:58  <SmatZ> like train crashing...
11:50:16  <pm|workbreak> it's still easy to find situations to crash trains.
11:50:39  <pm|workbreak> you must not have trains which cannot find a direct path.
11:50:47  <pm|workbreak> w/o any stations in between.
11:51:20  <pm|workbreak> but station efficiency can be greatly improved :)
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13:38:59  <Tim_> Hi guys!
13:40:14  <Tim_> I have winxp and want to compile a binary conatining 2 different .patch files... I know how to compile ONE patch file with BuildOTTD, however, it seems not to be possible to compile 2 patches with it. Is that possible with this TortoiseSVN?
13:40:37  <Forked> sure.. apply both patches to the source ..
13:40:45  <Forked> then make one patch from that, using tortoisesvn
13:41:35  <Tim_> okay... i'm not very skilled at this stuff... so step for step... I have my 2 patch files, what do i do first, use TortoiseSVN and apply both patches?
13:42:05  <Rubidium> chances are though that a) applying the second patch fails horribly, b) the compilation fails horribly and c) the binary fails horribly (crashes and such)
13:42:19  <Tim_> hehe i guess...
13:42:39  <Tim_> But how to try it anyway?
13:42:39  <Forked> see if both patches you want are already in this pack:
13:43:08  <Tim_> unfortunately not...
13:43:13  <Tim_> i want yapp and pax destinations
13:43:39  <Forked> I see this in that thread:  long_filename_with_passdest_r12075.patch [439.94 KB]
13:43:40  <Tim_> ah wait...
13:45:03  <Tim_> yep^^
13:45:09  <Tim_> just seen that...
13:45:22  <Tim_> but still, how does it work to combine patches?
13:45:50  <Tim_> Is it just merging the 2 patches with tortoisesvn to one new one and then compile it with buildottd?
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13:47:41  <Forked> you check out a rev of the source both patches should work with .. apply them to the trunk you just got.. create one patch from that and use that in buildottd.. then pray and hope it works
13:49:55  <Tim_> uff...
13:50:35  <Tim_> Would be great if there was a site where all those things would be explained... But only thing i got is the Forum Thread, in which the explanation is rather crappy...
13:50:48  <Forked> probably a reason buildottd only has support for one patch(file) :)
13:51:03  <Forked> wiki has info on how to use visual studio c++ express I belive
13:51:14  <Forked> alot of work though
13:51:33  <Tim_> Àhm...
13:51:52  <Tim_> if i just make svn checkout it downloads all the files from the website... THAT is the source then?
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14:04:41  <Forked> yes.. if I understood you correctly.. try the wiki .. it has alot of info about compiling :)
14:05:42  <Tim_> Well, what i did now was using TortoiseSVN: "SVN Checkout" (downloads the source), add patch #1, add patch #2, rightklick "create patch" and compile this with buildottd
14:05:42  <Sacro> Tim_: not from the website
14:05:45  <Sacro> from the svn repo
14:06:02  <Tim_> yeah but tortoisesvn does that automatically, doesn't it?
14:06:08  <Tim_> with svn checkout...
14:06:24  <Tim_> however, i compiled the patch in the forum... seems to work :)
14:06:51  <peter1138> not if you only check out trunk
14:07:05  <peter1138> checking out / is way too much, heh
14:07:19  <Tim_> but it works that way?
14:07:34  <Tim_> i don't know what you mean by "checking out trunk" ... ;-)
14:07:42  <peter1138> svn://
14:07:47  <Tim_> ah yes
14:07:48  <peter1138> rather than svn://
14:07:51  <Tim_> that's what i did...
14:08:01  <Tim_> i did /trunk ;-)
14:08:35  <peter1138> Right, then you don't have the website ;)
14:08:41  <Tim_> ^^
14:08:49  <Tim_> and is my described way the right one?
14:08:58  <Tim_> TortoiseSVN: "SVN Checkout" (downloads the source), add patch #1, add patch #2, rightklick "create patch" and compile this with buildottd
14:09:15  <peter1138> or just compile what you checked out
14:09:31  <Tim_> huh?
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14:09:54  <Tim_> how you mean?
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14:10:56  <Tim_> argh, and a question btw... where are my settings beeing saved?
14:11:03  <Tim_> like new grfs or patch settings
14:11:17  <glx> in openttd.cfg
14:12:03  <Tim_> ofc...^^
14:12:14  <Tim_> ;)
14:12:34  <Tim_> But if it is as easy as i described... Why is there no tutorial telling exactly that??
14:13:00  <Noldo> how to build a piece of software?
14:13:03  <glx> the wiki contains a lot of info about the config file
14:13:21  <Tim_> i mean it's not like i am a complete retard, still it took me days just to figure out how to make a working build out of a patch file
14:13:34  <Tim_> Can i compile with TortoiseSVN btw?
14:13:43  <glx> it's not a compiler
14:14:11  <Tim_> i was wondering because peter said: "[15:09] peter1138: or just compile what you checked out"
14:15:18  <De_ghosty> that is right
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14:15:33  <Noldo> you don't have to apply any patched to compile
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14:16:14  <Tim_> yeah okay but then i would just get the latest nightly, wouldn't i?
14:16:34  <peter1138> checkout source. apply patches. compile.
14:16:44  <Tim_> yep...
14:16:49  <Tim_> :)
14:17:15  <Tim_> checkout source. apply patches. create patch. compile.
14:17:22  <Noldo> why create?
14:17:24  <peter1138> see, that's an extra step
14:17:36  <Tim_> yeah that's what i don't get, how to skip that
14:17:54  <Noldo> why do you do it in the first place
14:18:06  <Tim_> i mean i have that folder with the source + extra patches
14:18:12  <Noldo> it's not like you are able to compile the patch anyway
14:18:20  <Noldo> Tim_: patch files or applied patches?
14:18:26  <Tim_> okay slow now^^
14:18:30  <Tim_> what i do now!
14:18:38  <Tim_> is apply the patches @ tortoisesvn
14:18:47  <Tim_> then create a .patch file
14:18:56  <Tim_> and compile that patch file with buildottd
14:19:00  <Noldo> ahaa
14:19:16  <Noldo> do that if it works for you
14:19:49  <Tim_> What would be the other way? I apply patches with TortoiseSVN, then i have a source code with the additional patches in it...
14:19:53  <Tim_> How do i compile that then?
14:20:22  <Noldo> with a compiler, but it's not as straight forward as using BuildOTTD
14:20:29  <Belugas> the only valid other way would be to install a decent compiler
14:20:40  <Tim_> hm
14:20:58  <Tim_> Okay, then i guess i will stick to BuildOTTD
14:20:58  <glx> msvc express works (and is easy to install)
14:21:01  <Belugas> and personally, that is THE best way to go
14:21:19  <glx> builottd already installed mingw/msys
14:21:43  <glx> so you can use this compiler too without the buildottd frontend
14:21:47  <De_ghosty> read the
14:21:50  <De_ghosty> wiki manual on
14:21:52  <De_ghosty> compiling
14:21:58  <De_ghosty> it's pretty decent
14:22:13  <Tim_> hm...
14:22:24  <Tim_> should i maybe write a good tutorial for the development forum?^^
14:22:58  <Noldo> well, everybody who has ever writen any programs knows it
14:23:11  <Tim_> and what about the poor users who just want to play with pax destinations or so?
14:23:14  <Tim_> like me? :D
14:23:32  <Nicko[work]> hi all
14:24:13  <Tim_> i mean, what would help already was just to write in that "How to apply a .patch/.diff file" that you can just download BuildOTTD and you're done in 10 seconds
14:24:37  <Tim_> if not applying more than one .patch file
14:24:56  <Nicko[work]> i've got a patch for russian town names. how about including it into the main tree?
14:25:08  <glx> make it a grf :)
14:25:18  <De_ghosty>
14:25:36  <glx> we won't add town names patch as it is possible to do that with action F newgrfs
14:26:00  <De_ghosty>
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14:27:09  <glx> Nicko[work]: I made two samples in (converted 2 ottd generators into action F)
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14:28:33  <Nicko[work]> i see..
14:29:18  <Nicko[work]> my list is real-city-names-array-based, like spanish or french
14:31:13  <Belugas> Nicko[work], what glx have shown you can do that too
14:31:22  <Belugas> no more no less
14:31:26  <Belugas> ...
14:31:36  <Belugas> no less and way more
14:31:39  <Belugas> grrrr
14:31:49  <glx> and a name list is even easier to code :)
14:33:15  <Forked> funny how compiling stuff is alot harder in windows than linux :\
14:33:38  <Tim_> Hey, here comes a question... I'm just reinstalling everything that got to do with TTD as i had different versions laying all around my harddisk.... Is there a way i can set up a similar save location for all my builds i'm using?
14:33:50  <Forked> I guess windows developers spend their time on OH SHINY STUFF IS COOL rather than make it usable for more stuff :)
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14:34:16  <Noldo> Forked: compiling is just normal using in *nixes
14:34:28  <Forked> Noldo: it should be in windows too :p
14:35:11  <Noldo> why?
14:35:49  <Noldo> it's not like people are compiling new versions of office or let alone the windows kernel all the time
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14:36:32  <Forked> true, but open source is in use more and more :)  (ye I don't really have any good points other than "it would be easier for me the few times I do compile stuff in that OS")
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14:40:10  <Belugas> Forked, it is not harder to compile on Windows than on *nix
14:40:16  <Belugas> it's just a matter of the right setup
14:40:37  <Forked> Belugas: it was a bitch to install vc c++ 2003 express and get it working.. then suddenly it borked :)
14:40:58  <saati> Belugas: but it is much harder to get the right setup
14:41:10  <Belugas> Windows customer base is not the same as *nix, therefor it is not built the same,nor the tools availabel are the same
14:41:43  <Belugas> *nix is done by and for computer savvy to a certain extend
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14:42:03  <Belugas> not the case in Windows
14:42:22  <Belugas> so, you might need a LITTLE knowledge in order to set it up
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14:42:50  <Belugas> Forked, if it borked, it's becasue you made it broke
14:43:05  <Belugas> saati, it all depends on what you want to do
14:43:48  <Belugas> and... everything is not always working out of the box in *nix either...
14:44:01  <Belugas> there are plus and minus in every system
14:44:03  <Belugas> that's all
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14:44:41  <Forked> Belugas: no no, I think support for 2003 was removed because it failed for no properly logged reason when compiling
14:45:19  <Belugas> well... give us proper fix then
14:45:35  <Forked> I'm not blaming you or any other openttd developer for it
14:45:47  <Forked> and I'm not complaining about anything that has to do with openttd :p
14:46:24  <glx> it failed for internal compiler error
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14:47:02  <glx> and express 2005 and 2008 are free
14:47:12  <glx> and they work
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14:50:00  <Forked> so does buildottd for most things :) I like it
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14:51:40  <yorick> it seems that the reservation bit is set to false on all rail tiles when loading not-pbs savegame or creating one with michi_cc's patch?
14:53:29  <yorick> assertions must always be passed true, right :O?
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14:56:18  <yorick> isn't it better to just make it barred when it's not barred in road_cmd.cpp line 1382?
14:58:22  * yorick just keeps asking questions until someone answers
14:58:43  <peter1138> [14:51] <yorick> it seems that the reservation bit is set to false on all rail tiles when loading not-pbs savegame or creating one with michi_cc's patch?
14:58:52  <peter1138> obviously, there was reservation bit before...
14:58:57  <peter1138> +NO
15:00:36  <yorick> and the 3rd question?
15:01:25  <peter1138> well, presumably it was put in for a reason
15:01:31  <peter1138> it should already have been closed
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15:02:49  <yorick> can't you replace the warning light with a automatic system to fix it?
15:02:53  *** Amis [] has joined #openttd
15:02:55  <yorick> :-)
15:03:17  <Amis> hi
15:03:21  <yorick> hi
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15:13:43  <DJ-Nekkid> hi dudes...
15:14:01  <DJ-Nekkid> i may have a bug in the yapp
15:14:07  <DJ-Nekkid> got saves
15:14:18  <DJ-Nekkid> rev 12062
15:14:32  <DJ-Nekkid> atleast trains crashed :)
15:14:55  <hylje> :o
15:16:50  <yorick> that is not very strange ;)
15:17:07  *** Nicko[work] is now known as Nicko[work][afk]
15:17:16  <yorick> modifiing while trains are running upon, lost train, reversing, waypoint?
15:17:20  <DJ-Nekkid> it might be me tho...
15:17:43  <DJ-Nekkid> well, not really
15:17:46  <DJ-Nekkid> if i fast forward it happens again
15:17:56  <yorick> what is the problem exactly?
15:18:13  <Brianetta> DJ-Nekkid: Are you saying that trains are passing red signals?
15:18:15  <DJ-Nekkid> got a 8 line station with 3 loops
15:18:34  <DJ-Nekkid> either they pass a red, or the reserved paths arent reserved enough ...
15:18:42  <Sacro> Brianetta: you should run a PBS server :P
15:18:57  <Brianetta> Sacro: If the next stable has it, perhaps
15:19:04  <DJ-Nekkid> shal i post them + a screenie in the yapp server ?
15:19:07  * Sacro is now playing: Game & Watch [Game & Watch]
15:19:08  <Sacro> :D
15:19:11  <DJ-Nekkid> ehm
15:19:11  <DJ-Nekkid> thread
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15:22:21  <yorick> DJ-Nekkid: I'm in the yapp server
15:22:27  <yorick> show it there
15:22:58  <Sacro> so, how to use the pbs
15:23:02  <Sacro> yorick: zomg server?
15:23:22  <peter1138> how? place signals where trains should stop.
15:23:36  <Sacro> D: password
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15:23:44  <yorick> coop
15:23:47  <Sacro> peter1138: so prototypical?
15:23:53  <peter1138> a la
15:24:08  <Sacro> wow
15:24:13  <Sacro> it is almost prototypical already
15:24:47  <peter1138> default red!
15:24:57  <Sacro> :D
15:25:07  <Sacro> now i should start doing my UK Signals thread
15:25:14  <Sacro> and implementing correct shunt signals :D
15:25:53  <DJ-Nekkid> im kinda short on time atm, but it looks like when there are a x'ing path; with opposite diagonals it dont counts it as beeing reserved... but i'm back a bit later
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15:34:24  <Sacro> hmm
15:34:29  <Sacro> so you only need station starters
15:38:34  <Eddi|zuHause3> <Tim_> Hey, here comes a question... I'm just reinstalling everything that got to do with TTD as i had different versions laying all around my harddisk.... Is there a way i can set up a similar save location for all my builds i'm using? <- since 0.6, all savegames get stored in "My Documents" (or something)
15:38:49  <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, he's gone
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15:53:02  <DJ-Nekkid> yorick: are you talking about the opencoop dev server?
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16:03:38  <Sacro> !seen Tekky
16:07:54  <Sacro> oh fuck that was a big crunch
16:09:58  <Sacro> michi_cc: <- that doesn't work :(
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16:10:13  <k3ks> hi!
16:10:39  <k3ks> just a short question, is there an effort in building electric railways instead of non electric?
16:11:00  <yorick> if you have electric locs ;O
16:11:17  <k3ks> k, so it's only about the locs
16:11:23  <yorick> yes
16:11:41  <k3ks> thx
16:11:56  <k3ks> i'll try this emediatly
16:15:06  <Sacro> yes, it seems that lost trains don't check routing
16:15:29  <Sacro> and also
16:15:37  <peter1138> Sacro, well, that's just lines... where are the signals?
16:15:38  <Sacro> the rear engine is clearing blocks too soon
16:15:51  <Sacro> peter1138: on that diagram?
16:15:54  <Sacro> err
16:16:01  <Sacro> a pbs 1 way before 31
16:16:04  <Sacro> normal after
16:16:19  <Sacro> and then for Q
16:16:27  <Sacro> pbs 1 way at left side, and a normal after 32
16:16:35  <Sacro> normal after 33 to R
16:16:45  <Sacro> and pbs 1 way before 33 from R
16:17:22  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: glx * r12080 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Fix: update waypoint signs when changing language
16:20:32  <peter1138> Like but on the other side...
16:20:43  <peter1138> Seems to work for me...
16:20:43  <Sacro> peter1138: exactly
16:20:55  <Eddi|zuHause3> Sacro: place PBS at the entrance of junctions, place NO signals at the exit of junctions
16:21:10  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause3: no other signals at all?
16:21:23  <peter1138> like in my image
16:21:28  <Eddi|zuHause3> Sacro: let 1 train length distance between the junction and the next signal
16:21:41  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause3: nice idea
16:21:41  <Eddi|zuHause3> so a train waiting at the signal will not block the junction
16:22:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> Sacro: it's not exactly my idea, the wiki explains signal placement in quite some detail
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16:34:27  <Belugas> "Digging In the Dirt, Find the places we've got hurt"
16:34:35  <Belugas> bommmmm...
16:35:01  <yorick> michi_cc: this makes crossing close when they get reserved with your patch:
16:35:09  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause3, i can't recreate your problem with signal tiles not being reserved :o
16:35:37  <Eddi|zuHause3> peter1138: it might be a rarely occuring case, as the E 94 is not 2 full wagons long
16:35:56  <Eddi|zuHause3> the distances between signals and the length of the train must match
16:38:01  <Sacro> peter1138: how is the pbs patch looking in terms of trunkable?
16:39:00  <Eddi|zuHause3> Sacro: still many train crashes
16:39:09  <yorick> he asked peter1138
16:39:18  <peter1138> I delegated to Eddi|zuHause3
16:39:22  <yorick> I think the next release will solve many problems
16:39:34  <peter1138> Yeah
16:39:36  <yorick> like lost trains crash, waypoint crash
16:39:37  <peter1138> like "Sacro> yes, it seems that lost trains don't check routing"
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16:39:41  <yorick> reversion crash
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16:40:06  <yorick> I think the rest has to do with faulty signals
16:40:24  <Sacro> yes, i admit, it does take a bit of getting used to
16:40:50  <yorick> it should check and warn you
16:41:35  <yorick> or use fake trains to test the junction
16:42:10  <yorick> inflatable trains!
16:42:43  <Forked> hmm, when removing signals with drag (select signal and press "r") it only removes the one signal where I started, not the rest that should be marked for removal by it
16:42:50  <Forked> (yapp)
16:43:13  <Forked> hold ctrl down removes all in it's path though
16:43:13  <yorick> talking about PBS or normal signals?
16:43:24  <Forked> pbs
16:43:57  <yorick> one-way or normal pbs?
16:44:04  <Forked> normal
16:44:27  <yorick> because it just works for me ^^
16:44:37  <Forked> huh
16:44:51  <yorick> monorail
16:45:08  <Forked> normal rail (non-el) .. but it's gono's patchpack - so I'm not calling it a yappbug atm :)=
16:45:35  <yorick> it isn't
16:45:38  <yorick> it works for me
16:47:05  <yorick> what's the function that checks if there's a vehicle on a given tile?
16:52:49  <k3ks> may it be, that, if i build an airport between to city and both lay in the "einzugsgebiet" still only one is affectet?
16:52:53  <Sacro> right, now we need yellow signals
16:53:07  <k3ks> sry, don't know the english word
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16:53:35  <Eddi|zuHause3> "catchment area"
16:53:40  <Sacro> crunch :D
16:53:44  <k3ks> thx *g*
16:58:22  <Sacro> :d
16:58:26  * Sacro has a passenger line
16:58:39  <Sacro> 5 stations
16:58:51  <Sacro> DMUs running 1-3 and 3-5
16:58:58  <Sacro> and a HST running 1,3,5
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17:00:08  <Sacro> now we need passenger destinations
17:01:24  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r12081 /trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs):
17:01:24  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Rename table/roadveh.h to table/roadveh_movment.h
17:01:24  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: It is more descriptive name and it will not upset the generate script anymore
17:02:54  <Eddi|zuHause3> i have 225 stations
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17:05:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> hm... i need a "don't pass here" signal that doesn't say "this is a safe waiting location" from the other side
17:07:28  <Sacro> ?
17:07:32  <Sacro> wow
17:07:36  <Sacro> this pbs works really nicely
17:07:45  <Sacro> i have all my stations as bidi
17:08:44  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, allmost all my stations wer "bidi" before, i am trying to improve them one by one now ;)
17:09:14  <Ash_> Can someone recommend me how to do this with pre-signals, or a better way? ->
17:09:32  *** Christoph [] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
17:09:36  <Sacro> hehe
17:09:39  <Sacro> presigs are so last week
17:09:44  <Ash_> AWw.
17:09:50  <Ash_> :-)
17:10:10  <Sacro> try the new PBS build
17:10:29  <peter1138> yeah, presignals can't fix that
17:11:37  <Ash_> Ah, right. What's the PBS build, just out of interest?
17:11:55  <Eddi|zuHause3>
17:12:10  <Eddi|zuHause3> Figure 4.2 is exactly what you need
17:12:42  <Eddi|zuHause3>
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17:16:59  <Ash_> Ah, that's awesome.
17:17:03  <Ash_> I can't wait.
17:17:11  <Eddi|zuHause3> Ash_: btw. 90° turns are ugly, avoid them
17:17:18  <yorick> what's the correct syntax for patch.exe included with mingw?
17:17:42  <Eddi|zuHause3> yorick: for git diffs, "patch -p1 -i <patchfile>"
17:17:52  <Eddi|zuHause3> for other diffs, "-p0"
17:17:54  <Ash_> Eddi|zuHause3: Oh, I do. I didn't realise I had one in the example.
17:17:56  <Ash_> >_>
17:18:34  <yorick> ah
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17:20:39  <Ash_> I'm getting a game crash connecting to a network server. What can I do to report it, aside saying "the game crashed"?
17:21:20  <yorick> what happened?
17:21:30  <yorick> did you want to connect using a patched version?
17:22:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> the exact error message it delivered would be nice...
17:22:56  *** raimar2 [] has joined #openttd
17:23:24  <Ash_> I'm using plain old 0.6.0-beta3. When the map downloaded, the game shut down and debug mode said:
17:24:07  <Ash_> It's working now though. That's after 4 tries. :-/
17:24:31  <yorick> seems to occur more
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17:24:53  <yorick> happens when connecting takes too long/2 are connecting from the same IP to the same server
17:25:00  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r12082 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Cleanup: MSVC projects do not care about the directory of the file while sorting. Only the "Absolute" name matters
17:26:19  <yorick> the project folder doesn't matter for compiling under mingw, right?
17:26:22  <Ash_> Fair enough. I am on a relatively slow line. So it's a known bug I guess. :-)
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17:36:20  <yorick> what was that revision parameter for configure?
17:38:23  <Belugas> yorick, no, they only matter while using msvc
17:39:00  <peter1138> --revision, probably
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17:40:34  <yorick> unknow option: revision
17:41:19  <yorick> but it works when adding =, thanks!
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17:44:54  <glx> Ash_: it's already reported
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17:47:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> hm... "too short platform penalty" must be increased
17:48:42  <yorick> ok
17:51:09  <Zr40> any chance FS#104 gets committed?
17:52:27  <Eddi|zuHause3> funny, that is like 2 years old ;)
17:52:39  <Zr40> indeed.
17:53:13  <yorick> make it a patch option:
17:53:29  <yorick> "Use advanced finances window"
17:53:39  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, we desperately need more pathch options!! ... NOT!
17:54:11  <Zr40> I don't see any benefit to making it a configurable option
17:54:13  <yorick> I think we do :)
17:54:49  <yorick> devs don't like changing something without making it an option for users to change back
17:56:15  <Zr40> svn update -r revision-before-change
17:57:42  <yorick> they have something like new-feature-which-players-want-without-needing-to-see-the-advanced-finances-window-every-year
17:58:14  <Zr40> there's already an option to not show the finances window every year
17:58:46  <yorick> there is?
17:58:56  <peter1138> crap, i fell off the road :o
17:59:19  <Zr40> I hope there was grass, not rocks.
17:59:33  <yorick> they have something like new-feature-which-players-want-without-needing-to-see-the-advanced-finances-window-when-they-click-on-the-money-to-see-how-much-money-there-is-wasted-this-year
17:59:58  <yorick> brb
17:59:58  <Zr40> what's your point?
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18:02:38  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r12083 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Cleanup: Adding some more files in MSVC projects
18:04:11  <Belugas> Zr40, what are those indexes for?
18:04:58  <Zr40> they were already there in r1. I just documented them.
18:05:43  <Belugas> ok... yuo documented each index.  but not the index system
18:05:50  <Belugas> that's waht i mean
18:06:00  *** raimar2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:06:03  <Belugas> what are those indexes for?
18:06:40  <Zr40> apparently, they're used to accumulate certain types of cost/profit
18:06:46  <Belugas> since they are there back from r1, pretty good chances the one who wrote these is not aruipnd anymore ;)
18:06:50  <yorick> back and afk :)
18:07:03  *** yorick is now known as Yorick|AFK
18:08:30  <Zr40> I even believe they're identical to the original TTD
18:08:42  <Belugas> might very well be...
18:08:49  <Belugas> but.. i was thinking...
18:09:04  <Belugas> maybe it's time to have a more flexible system
18:09:35  <Belugas> tis is pretty much obscure
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18:12:23  <Belugas> or maybe not now ... maybe we should wait for post 0.6
18:14:15  <Belugas> heeek.... it is a pretty big window now :(
18:14:43  <Zr40> yep, I made it larger for the totals to fit in
18:15:03  <Zr40> as for horizontally, I found that the numbers would overlap in big games
18:16:03  <Zr40> someone suggested a scroll bar a while ago
18:16:14  <Zr40> would be useful if more than two years of history is saved
18:16:21  <Belugas> IF
18:16:46  <Zr40> but I won't go in and hack everything just to do that
18:16:57  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
18:17:01  <Wolf01> hello
18:17:17  <Belugas> that is the problem with that window not being flexible enough
18:17:21  <Belugas> hello Wolf01
18:17:59  <Belugas> i think that somewhere, there might be a lot that can be done directly in the paint event, instead of been manually placed
18:18:20  <Zr40> I agree.
18:19:24  <Belugas> plus, it shold be noted somewhere that these indexes are in fact indexes in the money data that comes from the player
18:19:38  <Belugas> that would at least make it more understandable
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18:19:52  <Belugas> plus, i would turn all those numbers into enum,
18:20:01  <Belugas> might even be usefull system wide
18:20:36  <Belugas> i'm pretty sure the plaeyr expenses are still, from here and there, accessed by magical numbers
18:22:03  <Belugas> mmn... nope
18:22:10  <Belugas> but!
18:23:09  *** pm|work is now known as pm|away
18:23:28  <Phantasm> Belugas: Any estimate on when will the too little industry spawning on big maps (or too many on small maps) be fixed?
18:24:20  <Belugas> nope. no estimate available
18:24:43  <Phantasm> Will you do it or give it to whoever wants it?
18:25:19  *** Yorick|AFK is now known as Yorick
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18:26:34  <Belugas> mayube i'll do it, but 1) have not yet took time to think of how to do it 2) have not yet found time to think if it should be done 3) have not yet decided if i would like it to be fixed
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18:27:27  <Belugas> if ever you have a sensible solution that do not involves calling random stuff here and there and that REALLY does addresses the issue in a really demonstrable way, do it
18:28:07  <Belugas> Zr40, look into economy_type.h:113 and see whaat i've fond out for you :)
18:28:40  <Belugas> with this, your patch will get a very higher readibility ;)
18:29:06  <Belugas> and it would not require the lengend in the function's block header anumore
18:30:18  <Eddi|zuHause3> i'd like to think of big maps as everything-has-more-space instead of everything-appears-more-often
18:30:43  <Yorick> I think I do have the (almost) ultimate ottd build here, with YAPP, Paxdest, and my own truckdriver-security patch :)
18:30:49  <Belugas> provide a patch, dear Eddi|zuHause3
18:31:09  <Eddi|zuHause3> (that was mostly addressed by the "very few" industry/town setting)
18:31:57  <Belugas> well... that is a different matter, isn't it?
18:32:29  <Belugas> number of indu VS spatial dispersion, i mean
18:33:39  * Belugas goes out for a while
18:33:41  <Zr40> i686-apple-darwin9-g++-4.0.1: Support/OpenTTD": No such file or directory <-- what's that " doing there?
18:33:46  <Eddi|zuHause3> i meant "fewer industries" == "more space between them"
18:34:07  <Eddi|zuHause3> but there may well be more complicated attempts to that ;)
18:34:13  <Phantasm> Belugas: If you just scale it 1:1 with map size, you get bigger maps to be identical to just multiple small maps places together. However, it might be wanted that bigger maps actually do have less industries and thus longer routes. I think a viable sollution that fits all would be to have a scale factor with options like 1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32 and no scaling (1/64 is the case with biggest map on noscaling). That way the player could decide on what ...
18:34:20  <Phantasm> ... would be suitable. Default of 1/2 or 1/4 would probably be good.
18:34:46  <Eddi|zuHause3> Zr40: part of the path name "Application Support"?
18:35:11  <Eddi|zuHause3> i.e. misplaced/unescaped space?
18:35:23  <glx> use a recent trunk
18:35:26  <Phantasm> Belugas: Other option is to have it to scale identically with map size, but another option to affect both starting industries and spawning of new ones. Scaling factor for that with same options. That way player can better affect the starting amount of industries which is currently directly scaled.
18:35:50  <Zr40> Eddi|zuHause3: I thought as much. I don't know why that wasn't a problem yesterday.
18:36:00  <Phantasm> Belugas: Both of those fixed should be very easily done and only touch very few places.
18:36:12  <Zr40> glx: unless last minute isn't recent enough... :)
18:36:26  <Phantasm> Belugas: I think the latter would be better.
18:36:51  <Eddi|zuHause3> @seen michi_cc
18:36:51  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause3: michi_cc was last seen in #openttd 23 hours, 45 minutes, and 14 seconds ago: <michi_cc> thanks, found
18:37:07  <glx> it was a problem some times ago, but it should have been fixed (else nightlies for osx would be unavailable)
18:39:04  <Phantasm> Belugas: What do you think?
18:39:37  <Zr40> glx: it worked yesterday. I don't see any changes since then that could affect this
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18:39:56  <glx> maybe reconfiguration failed
18:40:17  <glx> source.list changed many times today
18:40:38  <Zr40> I assume those files aren't affected by make clean
18:40:48  <glx> try reconfiguring by hand
18:41:08  <Zr40> shared data directory... /Library/Application\ Support/OpenTTD
18:41:20  <glx> when source.list is change, Makefile is recreated
18:41:24  <Phantasm> Belugas: Erm, my logic failed.. 1/64 scaling factor wouldn't mean identical amount of industries in 64 times as big map, but twice the amount of industries.
18:41:53  <glx> maybe config.cache contains bad path
18:42:34  <glx> and then write a broken Makefile
18:43:11  <Zr40> running ./configure worked
18:43:26  <Zr40> I suppose that backslash is getting lost somewhere along the way
18:43:29  <glx> so it's a cache bug :)
18:43:49  <glx> let's slap Bjarni when it'll come back :)
18:51:08  <Zr40> what determines the initial window size?
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18:52:03  <glx> the code
18:52:15  <Zr40> really.
18:52:20  <Gonozal_VIII> oh noes, it's the code!
18:52:43  <Gonozal_VIII> morning peoples :-)
18:52:58  <Zr40> I've got a window that thinks it's ~500 pixels high, but gets clipped at ~400
18:53:18  <Gonozal_VIII> ?
18:53:18  <Yorick> repair the code!
18:53:42  <Yorick> The Code has been broken!
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18:55:36  <Zr40> I've changed the WindowDesc of the window in question to set the height to 527 pixels
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18:55:54  <Zr40> the window correctly draws to that height
18:56:00  <Gonozal_VIII> default height and/or minimum height?
18:56:20  <Zr40> both
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18:56:43  <glx> and we want to have minimum size in 640*480 or less
18:56:53  <Zr40> not the game window, but windows inside the game :)
18:57:02  <glx> ie it should be usable on small res devices
18:57:09  <Zr40> err, that's width
18:57:21  <Gonozal_VIII> i know, i changed the size of the purchase new vehicle window^^
18:57:27  <Zr40> height is 276 pixels :D
18:58:19  <Zr40> as I said, the window draws itself correctly
18:58:21  <Gonozal_VIII> well... 527*276 is in 640*480
18:58:26  <Zr40> but it's being clipped at 216 pixels
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18:58:30  <Zr40> (the old height)
18:58:43  <Gonozal_VIII> strange
18:59:09  <glx> you must change widget size too
19:00:35  <Zr40>
19:00:44  <Gonozal_VIII>      WDP_AUTO, WDP_AUTO, 254, 186, 386, 368,
19:00:53  <Gonozal_VIII> i only changed that line and it works fine
19:01:21  <glx> Gonozal_VIII: depends on the window :)
19:01:55  <glx> some are not resizable, and you need to update all widgets when changing the size
19:02:18  <Zr40> done that too.
19:02:29  <Zr40> if I didn't, I would have the reverse problem :)
19:03:07  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm
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19:04:34  <Gonozal_VIII> search the file for the numbers you changed, if you find them somewhere else too, look if that has something to do with it
19:06:05  <Gonozal_VIII> oh, 12081
19:06:25  <Gonozal_VIII> wow 83
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19:10:10  <Belugas> Phantasm, as said before, i have to think about it.  Let say that i'm a bit tired on other people's wish and for once, i'm working on something I told MYSELF it would be good.  You see, newindustries took a whole year of my life.  It's a bit time to get some fresh air for me
19:10:22  <Belugas> not saying i wold not do anything,
19:10:31  <Belugas> just that it is not a big emergency on my book...
19:10:44  <Yorick> huh?
19:11:01  <Yorick> what are you responding to?
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19:11:08  <Gonozal_VIII> working on stuff you like is always good belugas :-)
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19:11:31  <Yorick> a vision telling you to go programming openttd? :-P
19:11:44  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
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19:11:53  <Belugas> Yorick, did i mentionnoned your name? no?  it does not concern you then.  I mentionned "hantasm"
19:12:00  <Belugas> thanks Gonozal_VIII ;)
19:13:24  <Yorick> "it does not concern you then.", "Let say that i'm a bit tired on other people's wish and for once"
19:13:29  * Digitalfox gives big hug to Belugas..
19:13:57  * Yorick does too
19:14:09  <Yorick> grouphug!
19:14:25  <Digitalfox> Come one everybody let's give big hug's to Belugas so he feels his work is important
19:14:44  <Sacro> hug's what?
19:15:06  * Sacro hits Digitalfox with a sign saying "DO NOT ABUSE APOSTRAPHES"
19:15:46  * Sacro hugs Belugas
19:15:51  <Sacro> we should all send him gifts
19:15:52  * Digitalfox put's Sacro on his shoot to kill list
19:16:11  <Belugas> prrrrrrrrr prrrrrrrrrrrr prrrrrrrrrrrrr
19:16:15  * Yorick dusts off a kitchen towel and slaps it at Sacro
19:16:33  <Sacro> :o
19:16:48  <Zr40> Belugas: regarding readability, is it better to unroll loops and use those enums, or keep loops and magic numbers?
19:16:59  <Yorick> :O
19:17:21  <Sacro> Zr40: -funroll-loops!
19:17:41  <Zr40> not that one :)
19:18:03  <Belugas> dunno Zr40.  I just had a very limited time to look at it (patch + trunk)
19:18:03  <Belugas> maybe loops are usefull
19:18:17  <Belugas> maybe they shold be using a big array of features+strings... dunno
19:18:18  <Zr40> maybe I'll do both
19:18:29  <Zr40> I'll extract the loop into a function
19:18:36  <Gonozal_VIII> put the enums you want into an array and use array access in the loop^^
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19:23:42  <Eddi|zuHause3> ok... this bidirectional double track line is way too busy to get used bidirectional...
19:24:36  *** Tekky [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:25:52  <peter1138> heh
19:25:56  <peter1138> quad track!
19:26:48  <Gonozal_VIII> or just put in some one way pbs signals...
19:28:18  <peter1138> that wouldn't help :p
19:28:30  <Gonozal_VIII> why?
19:29:49  <Tekky2> bi-directional double track is not possible with the current PBS signals, as michi_cc's patch only supports strong and not "weak" reservations. Please see for information why "weak" reservations are necessary.
19:30:13  *** Tekky2 is now known as Tekky
19:31:21  <Sacro> i wish people would stop using in front of
19:31:25  <Sacro> when they mean in rear of
19:31:38  <peter1138> huh?
19:31:47  <Sacro> i think
19:31:50  <Sacro> or am i confused again
19:31:55  <peter1138> probably
19:32:01  <Gonozal_VIII> very likely
19:32:11  <Gonozal_VIII> ;-)
19:32:27  <DJ-Nekk|d> are there any .nfo-codeing-channels? :)
19:32:51  <Gonozal_VIII> <-- that doesn't work but with less signals it does
19:33:48  <Tekky> that image refers to the old PBS system.
19:34:01  <Belugas> DJ-Nekk|d, strickly devoted to nfo, i doubt
19:34:01  <Tekky> the PBS system in MiniIN
19:34:24  <Tekky> brb, must reconnect.
19:34:25  <peter1138> Crappy PBS
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19:35:01  <Belugas> DJ-Nekk|d, there are a few good resources in here, anyway.  Dalestan, although not always active, reads and can answers, as long as you have a good questin to ask.
19:35:15  <Belugas> ther are other grf writers too, not just him, in here :)
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19:36:26  <Yorick> :D
19:37:01  <DJ-Nekk|d> hehe, well, i know, but i dont always wanna other this channel with all my questions
19:37:18  <Gonozal_VIII> < Tekky> that image refers to the old PBS system. <-- i know that but i'm talking about new pbs :P
19:37:19  <Belugas> "wanna other" ???
19:37:22  <DJ-Nekk|d> wanna bother
19:37:24  <DJ-Nekk|d> sry
19:37:29  <Belugas> lol
19:37:32  <Belugas> no prob
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19:37:56  <Belugas> go ahead, i' sure KNOWLEDGE might not HURT a few people, anyway ;)
19:38:29  <DJ-Nekk|d> well ... ive come a small way ... but now am i gonna try the callbacks ...
19:38:38  <DJ-Nekk|d> and tbh, the wiki dont say too much
19:38:52  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm wiki says a lot
19:39:02  <DJ-Nekk|d> it say a lot, but where to put it and stuff...
19:39:33  <DJ-Nekk|d> mainly 3 things im gonna use tho, atleast for now
19:39:51  <DJ-Nekk|d> wagon length and capacity, and therefor also the load ammount
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19:40:59  <Gonozal_VIII> load ammount is specified by the grf
19:41:15  <Gonozal_VIII> well.. everything is^^
19:41:17  <Gonozal_VIII> blah
19:41:20  <DJ-Nekk|d> hehe
19:41:22  <DJ-Nekk|d> aye
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19:42:25  <Gonozal_VIII> what do you want to do with that? programmable signals or something like that?
19:42:54  <DJ-Nekk|d> lets say i make a train, and it is a typical commuter train. and therefore i want the attached wagons to have 100ppl capacity, and 34 ppl load ammount ...
19:43:06  *** Tlustoch [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:43:40  <Forked> DJ-Nekk|d: are you happy with your isp?
19:44:00  <DJ-Nekk|d> Forked: yes i am ... the best in our region, by far
19:44:04  <Forked> \o/
19:44:16  <DJ-Nekk|d> typicaly 50% faster and 30% cheaper then Telenor
19:44:22  <Forked> hehe
19:44:34  <Forked> anyway I think I derailed you, sorry
19:44:57  <DJ-Nekk|d> hehe ... well, i work as a telecom technition, so yes and no...
19:44:58  <DJ-Nekk|d> hehe
19:45:15  <Forked> hmm ok.. I work at our isp :p
19:45:22  <DJ-Nekk|d> Mimer?
19:45:29  <Forked> ye, how do you think I got this host? :)
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19:45:43  <DJ-Nekk|d> i didnt realize you had mimer :)
19:45:49  <Forked> anyway, gf calls.. good night  :)
19:45:52  <DJ-Nekk|d> well, i kinda work for you then :)
19:45:53  <saati> poisoned the root servers?
19:46:02  <Forked> saati: sshh
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19:56:54  <Eddi|zuHause3> <Tekky2> bi-directional double track is not possible with the current PBS signals, as michi_cc's patch only supports strong and not "weak" reservations. Please see for information why "weak" reservations are necessary. <- indeed, it doesn't work the way it is described here
19:57:14  <Eddi|zuHause3> but you can make it work (less efficiently) by not placing signals on the "wrong" side
19:57:32  <Gonozal_VIII> i wrote that eddi :P
19:57:46  <Gonozal_VIII> i even posted a screenshot of that here yesterday
19:57:54  <Eddi|zuHause3> so trains that overtake on the left will have to reserve up to a signal on the "right" [both meanings] side
19:58:02  <Gonozal_VIII> deadlocks.png.. but already deleted
19:58:14  <Eddi|zuHause3> i have a screenshot, too
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19:58:25  <Gonozal_VIII> mine is better!
19:59:50  <Gonozal_VIII> <-- normal signals --> pbs, signals with red bar --> nothing
19:59:53  <Eddi|zuHause3>,%2020.%20Nov%201973.png
20:00:16  <DJ-Nekk|d> ahh ... hmm ...
20:00:30  <Tekky> thx, I will look at it.
20:00:49  <Zr40> Eddi|zuHause3: 404
20:01:06  <Belugas> rarely have i seen a patch been so heavily tested and commented...
20:01:18  <Zr40> Eddi|zuHause3: it seems to ignore everything from the comma
20:01:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> Zr40: safari?
20:01:20  <Gonozal_VIII> too many signals cause deadlocks, too few cause delays and possibly crashes, be careful^^
20:01:22  <Zr40> Eddi|zuHause3: yep
20:01:23  <Eddi|zuHause3> replace the comma
20:01:27  <Eddi|zuHause3> known problem ;)
20:01:32  * Belugas goes in coma
20:02:08  <Zr40> Eddi|zuHause3: same if I replace it with %2C
20:02:10  <Eddi|zuHause3> Belugas: we just have PBS patches too rarely ;)
20:02:31  <Belugas> i do totally agree , don't worry :D
20:03:01  <Zr40> I still don't understand why the window is being clipped
20:03:32  <Zr40> old height is 216, which doesn't occur anywhere relevant
20:04:00  <Gonozal_VIII> full height incl everything?
20:04:22  <Zr40> yes.
20:04:23  <Vikthor> Belugas: Hardly any other patch was  so much sought-after :D
20:04:57  <Gonozal_VIII> pbs IS cool
20:05:26  <peter1138> Belugas, hackykid's PBS patch was got me first interested in OTTD ;)
20:05:48  *** SmatZ [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:06:08  <Gonozal_VIII> 407*216
20:06:44  <Zr40> ah. sneaky WndProc
20:07:10  *** SmatZ [] has joined #openttd
20:07:15  <Belugas> i was very disappointed myself when it was removed.  And i am aboslutely amazed to see all the brouhaha around this new one.  It feels like trunk inclusion like shit in spring ;)
20:07:21  <Zr40> it resizes itself to 204 + (0 or 12)
20:07:41  <peter1138> that was my fault ;o
20:09:05  <Gonozal_VIII> add a big fat warning "trains may crash if not used properly" and trunkify^^
20:09:27  <peter1138> well the first incarnation had very hard to find crashing bugs, and deadlocks...
20:09:44  <peter1138> and i suspect if this gets to trunk it will be post 0.6
20:09:50  <peter1138> (so nobody will use 0.6 heh)
20:10:16  <Tekky> hehe
20:10:31  <Gonozal_VIII> good way to get more people to use the nightlies ;-)
20:10:32  <Belugas> agreed
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20:11:26  <Belugas> i don't thuink i was a dev when it was removed.  I was sad, but knew that is was for some good reasons, even if it was not obvious to me at that time.
20:11:51  <peter1138> lots of other things like yapf would've been seriously constrained
20:12:11  <peter1138> not that they were even a glimmer in a coder's eye at the time
20:12:16  <Gonozal_VIII> it works with yapf now :-)
20:12:25  <Tekky> hmmmm, the bi-directional double track is not very efficient if there are no signals on the opposite track side.... I think I will have to patch michi_cc's patch in order to allow for "weak" reservations :) However, I have not tested my design yet, so it could be that "weak" reservations don't help much :) The main problem with "weak" reservations is that
20:12:42  <Tekky> it may require a train prioritizer system to work efficiently.
20:13:06  <Zr40> Belugas: if you've got time, take a look at my new patch :)
20:13:10  <Tekky> i.e. trains should be able to change their reserved paths if they interfere too much with other trains.
20:13:10  <Gonozal_VIII> overtaking can't be efficient on busy lines
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20:15:27  <Gonozal_VIII> maybe a 3 track system where the outer lines are oneway and the middle is shared for overtaking could be better
20:15:30  <Tekky> the main problem with overtaking is that you must have a train prioritzer system in place, otherwise the slower train may decide to overtake the faster train in some situations :)
20:15:48  <Gonozal_VIII> yes, priorities would be nice
20:16:28  <peter1138> GAH
20:16:32  <peter1138> stupid non-pbs signals...
20:16:35  <peter1138> deadlocked :(
20:16:39  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
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20:19:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> <peter1138> lots of other things like yapf would've been seriously constrained <- i remember KUDr showed up only because PBS was removed, so there would be no YAPF now at all ;)
20:20:05  <Eddi|zuHause3> somebody needs to branch 0.6, so PBS can be trunkified ;)
20:20:11  * Belugas enjoys Micke oldfield, Sentinel from Tubular bells 2
20:20:26  <Eddi|zuHause3> what is holding back a release right now?
20:21:05  <Belugas> time, actually
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20:25:17  <Belugas>
20:25:20  <Belugas> hem...
20:25:22  <Belugas> oups...
20:25:29  <peter1138> sekrit!
20:26:01  <Belugas> lol
20:26:02  <Belugas> yeah...
20:26:10  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause3, yeah, time. And I'm an idiot who gets carried away on big changes that can't go in for 0.6...
20:26:25  <peter1138> . o O ( engine pool )
20:26:28  <Eddi|zuHause3> hihihi ;)
20:26:39  <Belugas> ny fault, actually...
20:26:41  <peter1138> . o O ( yet another routing restriction patch )
20:26:49  <peter1138> your fault?
20:27:04  <Belugas> i'm supposed to work on the release itself, got carried away in that bridge stuff...
20:27:43  <Belugas> i got the logs, but...working them up for release is such a boring job...
20:28:02  <peter1138> :o
20:28:04  <Gonozal_VIII> i personally don't care about releases, for me, 0.6.0 could come in 2010, as long as the trunk keeps getting better and better :-)
20:28:15  <Belugas> i have to push myself on it
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20:28:32  <michi_cc> Tekky: I thought about doing "weak" reservations as well, but a classical A*-star pathfinder can't really make use of them. It would need iterative interaction between trains to find the optimal solution (like, when to continue on the wrong side and when to switch back to the right side)
20:28:38  <Belugas> Gonozal_VIII, at a point, it should be a release
20:28:55  <Vikthor> (21:12:42) Tekky: it may require a train prioritizer system to work efficiently. -- I wonder if signaling is not too much train-based, eg. train reserves path so it is best for it
20:29:32  <Gonozal_VIII> what's causing so much work with a release?
20:30:07  <Vikthor> It might be very intersting to somehow simulate a dispatcher(?), who would try to coordinate the trains for greater efficiency of whole network
20:30:47  <Vikthor> Then again, it sounds pretty difficult on first sight.
20:30:56  <Zr40> Belugas: heh. your patch more or less requires mine :)
20:32:08  <Belugas> Gonozal_VIII :
20:32:28  <Belugas> Zr40, the other way around... mine allows yours to be more readable ;)
20:32:55  <Gonozal_VIII> backport all the fixes <-- no branch
20:33:17  <Belugas> "update the changelog": that's the bitch
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20:34:29  <Zr40> Belugas: not really. All your patch does is shuffle the expenses and remove magic numbers
20:34:39  <Belugas> exact
20:34:40  <Zr40> which results in breakage in the finances windaw :)
20:34:47  <Zr40> window, even
20:34:50  <Belugas> and in yours, thouse numbers can be change too
20:35:06  <Belugas> thus making it more readable
20:35:07  <Belugas> tadammm
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20:35:41  <Zr40> Belugas: yep. But that doesn't require your patch to work :)
20:35:52  *** raimar2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:35:53  <Belugas> well...
20:36:02  <Zr40> you did look at the new one, right? :)
20:36:03  <Belugas> we favor removal of magical numbers
20:36:23  * hylje submits a patch which reinstates magical numbers all over the place
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20:36:35  <Belugas> and enums do not have to specify each numbers incrementaly
20:36:43  <Belugas> so tmy patch is good for cleanup
20:36:55  <Belugas> plus, the size of the array is now defined
20:37:07  <Belugas> so... 3 bonuses for trunk
20:37:12  <SpComb> #define MAGIC_SIX 6
20:37:21  <Belugas> note...  it is not compiled...
20:38:07  <Belugas> breakage? do i break it?  i doubt
20:38:32  *** Yorick [] has quit [Quit:  cya all!]
20:38:46  <Belugas> +static void DrawPlayerEconomySingleStat(Money *sum, const Money (*tbl)[EXPENSES_END], int x, ExpensesType i, int y)
20:38:50  <Belugas> ;)
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20:39:11  <Gonozal_VIII> bitmath_func and random_func are gone?
20:39:32  <Belugas> they are?
20:39:34  <Zr40> Belugas: if you apply your patch without applying mine, the finances window displays vehicle purchase cost as construction cost
20:39:47  <Zr40> in my opinion, that's breakage :)
20:40:13  <Gonozal_VIII> well, 12083 removes them from the vcproj files
20:40:14  <Zr40> and if they don't break, some code is still using magic numbers :)
20:40:18  <peter1138> Zr40, url to patch?
20:40:20  <Belugas> it does?
20:40:26  <Gonozal_VIII> (update to)
20:40:28  <Gonozal_VIII> :P
20:40:29  <Belugas>
20:40:33  <Belugas> for peter1138
20:41:29  <Belugas> Gonozal_VIII, read the commit :)
20:41:47  <Belugas> it is a sorting one
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20:42:06  <peter1138> const Money (*tbl)[13]
20:42:08  <peter1138> urgh
20:42:10  <glx> <SpComb> #define MAGIC_SIX 6 <-- no #define SIX 1 + 5
20:42:39  <Belugas> and it was r12082, no 3
20:43:26  <peter1138> avoid lots of absolute gui positioning
20:43:27  <Gonozal_VIII> yes, but update to 12083 does that^^
20:43:52  <glx> they are not removed, just moved
20:44:03  <Gonozal_VIII> yes...
20:44:08  <Zr40> peter1138: that's not possible if usage of defined strings/enums is desired
20:44:11  <peter1138> use a reference based on widget, and then something like y += 20, instead of 20, 40, 60 specifically
20:45:18  *** hn [~tttt@] has quit []
20:46:17  * Zr40 notices an odd function signature
20:46:19  <peter1138> why not just pass tbl[EXPENSES_TRAIN_INC] instead of tbl and EXPENSES_TRAIN_INC ?
20:46:46  <peter1138> (and why "x, i, y" in that order? heh)
20:46:52  <Zr40> that's what I meant :)
20:47:26  <peter1138> why is sum added to in a draw function?
20:47:41  <peter1138> it returns void
20:48:03  <peter1138> sum += DrawPlayerEconomySingleStat(Money cost, int x, int y)
20:48:51  <peter1138> same with the totals
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20:49:39  <hylje> WTF
20:51:45  <peter1138> "WTF" ?
20:53:50  *** divo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:58:51  * Hendikins yawns sleepily
20:59:03  <Hendikins> Yay for overtime and getting paid far more than I spend :P
20:59:56  <peter1138> I wish
21:00:35  <Zr40> peter1138: changes uploaded :)
21:01:11  <peter1138> "<Zr40> Belugas: not really. All your patch does is shuffle the expenses and remove magic numbers"
21:01:15  <Hendikins> peter1138: I got paid for 100 hours last fortnight, most of it above my base rate. Cleared over 50AUD :P
21:01:21  <peter1138> "<Zr40> which results in breakage in the finances windaw :)"
21:01:27  *** Tefad_ [] has joined #openttd
21:01:32  <peter1138> explain? heh
21:01:43  <Zr40>
21:01:49  *** Fujitsu [] has joined #openttd
21:01:55  <peter1138> Hendikins, i thought you did 100 hours last night for a second...
21:01:57  <Zr40> that patch changes the order of the ExpensesType enum
21:02:02  <peter1138> no it doens't
21:02:29  <Zr40> I shouldn't try to read patches.
21:02:30  <Hendikins> peter1138: I may be working my tail off, but I am yet to master the impossible
21:03:24  <Zr40> I didn't see + EXPENSES_CONSTRUCTION, so I assumed the order was different
21:04:20  <Belugas> lol
21:05:21  <peter1138> sum += DrawPlayerEconomySingleStat((*tbl)[EXPENSES_SHIP_RUN], x, 117);
21:05:24  <peter1138> would be a lot shorter
21:05:45  *** Tefad [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:05:46  <peter1138> (ignoring the comment about adding sum in a drawing function, heh
21:05:53  <hylje> i was sitting in a croatian tram earlier today
21:05:55  <hylje> crotram
21:06:02  <peter1138> scrotum tram?
21:06:04  <Zr40> (that's the reason I did that in the first place ;))
21:06:39  <hylje> no comment
21:08:34  <Belugas> all the "/* draw {income,expenses other}column names */" could be removed in favor of populating the widget array with captions, instead
21:08:36  <Belugas> i think
21:08:45  <Belugas> ho... no...
21:08:47  <Belugas> sorry
21:09:03  <Belugas> well...
21:09:07  <Belugas> yes, afterall..
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21:09:52  <Belugas> would require a simple sethidden with the range of widgets for (mode & 1)
21:14:06  <Zr40> ...which isn't something I know about :)
21:14:47  <Belugas> haaa :)  a challenge for you then ;)
21:15:44  <Belugas> look for WWT_CAPTION
21:15:49  <SmatZ> is "una su amiga" correct in Spanish?
21:16:51  <Belugas> Zr40 : and look for "SetWidgetsHiddenState(bool hidden_stat, int widgets, ...);"
21:17:42  <Zr40> captions are those right-click texts, right?
21:17:51  <glx> no that's tooltip
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21:19:29  <Zr40> it's the title bar?
21:19:54  <Zr40> I don't see what adding hidden extra captions would accomplish
21:20:27  <Belugas> o_O
21:20:47  <Belugas> mmmh maybe i was not clear enough
21:21:01  <Belugas> WWT_CAPTION is a simple text appearing on the window
21:21:11  <Belugas> it is placed inside the widget array
21:21:39  <Belugas> you do not need to NAMELY draw that string EVERYTIME, since it can be done by the window itself
21:22:22  <Zr40> isn't that WWT_TEXT?
21:22:44  <Zr40> grep WWT_CAPTION * only lists title bars
21:23:01  <Belugas> mmm...
21:23:04  <Belugas> well...
21:23:06  <Belugas> let me see
21:23:27  <peter1138> WWT_TEXT
21:23:31  <Zr40> openttd currently draws strings the same way
21:23:38  <Zr40> at least in that window :)
21:23:39  <peter1138> see example in genworld_gui.cpp
21:23:46  <Belugas> yeah... WWT_TEXT
21:23:51  <Belugas> sorry for confusion
21:24:05  <peter1138> Belugas, and yes, I did try to use WWT_CAPTION the first time I made those changes ;)
21:24:20  <Belugas> hehe
21:24:46  <Belugas> if i'mnot mistaken, i'm the one who introduced WWT_TEXT
21:25:29  <Belugas> or did i introduced WWT_LABEL???
21:25:32  <Belugas> don't remember
21:26:05  <Zr40> how would you set the text?
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21:27:32  <nappe1> hello everyone
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21:27:54  <Belugas> Zr40 :
21:27:54  <Belugas> File news_gui.cpp:
21:27:55  <Belugas> 928             { WWT_TEXT, RESIZE_NONE, COLOUR_YELLOW, \
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21:28:24  <nappe1> Hi Gonozal_VIII... you wanted to have day lenght patch where incomes stay same even with longer days? :)
21:28:52  <Gonozal_VIII> yes... and running costs stay the same too
21:28:53  <Zr40> Belugas: I mean, how do you set the text of an existing control?
21:29:27  <peter1138> the text is static, isn't it?
21:29:36  <Gonozal_VIII> main reason: running costs are higher than purchase costs, that's very strange
21:29:47  <nappe1> Hey Belugas, was it you who I was in contact with few years ago? I had automatic server pause/run Delphi thingy in works...
21:30:02  <Zr40> peter1138: the labels are, but the values aren't
21:30:09  <Belugas> you just add a new widget entry of type WWT_TEXT for each of those strings you want to add, as in the news_gui.cpp example
21:30:30  <peter1138> leave the values 'handdrawn' heh
21:30:32  <Belugas> nappe1, possible, i don't remember
21:30:51  * peter1138 ponders: continue coding, or play with PBS
21:30:53  <Gonozal_VIII> strange, revision number is 12081
21:31:13  <nappe1> Gonozal_VIII: basically I have done that now :) even transfer virtual incomes are right, but as this is my first patch (even if it is a patch for a patch ;) ) I want to make set up for it in the patch settings, so you have to wait a bit.
21:31:40  <Gonozal_VIII> nice :-)
21:32:36  <Gonozal_VIII> belugaaas, revision number of r12083 is r12081
21:32:40  <nappe1> so, as for the highly respected OpenTTD developemtn team, I have some veryyy newbie questions about making new strings to patch setings... :)
21:32:53  <peter1138> Gonozal_VIII, happens when project files are changed
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21:33:20  <Gonozal_VIII> ah
21:33:21  <glx> of course source is still the same
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21:35:40  <nappe1> Basically I did figure out that strings.h has the mapping from IDs to real strings, how should I add a new one? As my boolean button is changing Day length settings, I thought I should put it next to the previous one (the one which is for effecting running costs) but there isn't space between indexes, so shall I just it to end of the list with next free index?
21:36:12  <glx> never touch strings.h
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21:36:26  <glx> just add the string in english.txt
21:36:28  <Belugas> adding string in english.txt, recompile and you'll have your new id
21:36:31  <nappe1> well, that did came across my mind. :D
21:36:31  <Belugas> :)
21:36:44  <nappe1> ah... thanks. :)
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21:44:40  <nappe1> building...
21:44:49  <nappe1> ...aaand lots of errors...
21:44:54  <nappe1> darn terminators...
21:44:56  <nappe1> grrr
21:45:31  <nappe1> (well, that's what you get when you work with 6 different languages in same amount of projects during one day...)
21:45:56  *** Mark [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:46:15  * Belugas goes home
21:46:18  <Belugas> good night
21:46:21  <Belugas> see you tomorrow
21:46:54  <murray> hugz & kissez
21:47:21  <Sacro> hmmm
21:47:28  <Sacro> if you change a PBS run station whilst its live
21:47:31  <Sacro> *BOOM*
21:48:07  <peter1138> hmm, just had another case of a train reserving a path out of a station when it's just entering it
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21:48:29  <peter1138> think it happens when a train is stopping at a station which it is not scheduled to stop at
21:51:10  <Sacro> i just had a 5 train crash :(
21:51:24  <Sacro> i think when a train crashes, it unreserves its path
21:52:08  <Gonozal_VIII> after it's removed
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21:55:06  <peter1138> it does
21:55:22  <peter1138> but it does it even if there's another part of the train on that reserved bit, i believe
21:56:31  <Gonozal_VIII> hmm
21:57:00  <nappe1> hmmh... it seems that I have problem building languages.
21:57:32  <nappe1> is it so that if I make rebuild the whole sollution, the languages should be building at first?
21:58:12  <nappe1> as it is not doing it now and then causing unknown symbol from the my new string entry at settings.cpp.
21:59:17  <nappe1> I did try to build just langs but that stops in error "there's no delimiter(:) in line 1 at english.txt"
22:01:04  <Maedhros> nappe1: which operating system are you using, and what does the string you added look like?
22:01:25  <Gonozal_VIII> ah i had that too
22:01:40  <Gonozal_VIII> i think it has something to do with the editor you save it in
22:02:11  <Gonozal_VIII> and language textfile saved in notepad or wordpad fails for me, even if i didn't change anything
22:02:39  <dih> @seen Bjarni
22:02:39  <DorpsGek> dih: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 2 days, 1 hour, 30 minutes, and 45 seconds ago: <Bjarni> <Belugas> tired of removing it <-- think about all the money you save on the gym
22:03:03  <nappe1> Maedhros: WinXP SP2 and yes, I also think that the notepad screwed it up... (I know, should have editted in VS... :-/)
22:03:10  *** dih [] has left #openttd [Leaving]
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22:04:05  <nappe1> but then again, is the generator expecting UTF-8? I already tried to fix the situation saving it as UTF-8 format... (as ANSI did not work any better...)
22:04:42  <nappe1> Line looks like this:
22:04:44  <nappe1> STR_CONFIG_PATCHES_DAYLENGTH_CDIFACTOR                          :{LTBLUE}Daylength affects cargo delivery incomes
22:04:47  <Maedhros> yes, the string should be in utf8
22:05:01  <Maedhros> ooh
22:05:13  <Maedhros> i wonder if notepad adds a BOM to the beginning of the file?
22:05:23  <Maedhros> that would probably confuse strgen no end
22:05:50  <nappe1> Maedhros: hmmh... maybe I should take my XVi32 and check what the file has eaten really... :)
22:06:23  *** Zavior [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:07:48  <nappe1> Maedhros: you are right, there is 0xEF,0xBB,0xBF sequence at the beginning before real char data
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22:09:38  <nappe1> okay, let's see now...
22:10:13  <nappe1> and now it works.
22:10:14  <nappe1> :)
22:10:24  <Maedhros> good good :)
22:10:34  <nappe1> so, if someone asks, Notepad screws the language files.
22:11:41  <nappe1> MS is great abusing standards and totally screwing them, but writing a 3 byte header in txt file?? sheesh....
22:12:39  <peter1138> It's called a BOM
22:13:09  <Tefad_> BOMs are kind of standard
22:13:11  <peter1138> It is fairly pointless as UTF-8 is not affected by endianness.
22:13:21  <Tefad_> there are ways of not having it write BOMs
22:13:30  <peter1138> But it does allow auto-detection.
22:13:35  <Prof_Frink> 1) Use a Real Editor.
22:13:49  <nappe1> mmmkay, what that stands for? (sorry to be stupid, since I made coding profession, I think less I have had time to dedicate for educating myself... :D )
22:14:26  <Prof_Frink> no, it's BOM, as in "Somebody set up us the".
22:14:29  <peter1138> Byte Order Mark
22:14:33  <nappe1> ah...
22:15:50  * Maedhros wonders if there's any point in modifying strgen to ignore a BOM if present
22:16:15  *** Digitalfox [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:16:35  <nappe1> so, it's telling little / big endian stuff for application? (nearest thing I lately came across was BAM... which is totally different thing in totally obsolete system. Commodore Disk system had that as Block Allocation Table. :) )
22:17:10  * Prof_Frink has to do BOMs at work
22:18:01  <nappe1> Maedhros: hard to say really... it ain't that big deal. and it does not cause trouble that often if I was the first one...
22:18:10  <peter1138> michi_cc, have you caught that station reserving bug yet?
22:18:14  <Prof_Frink> Plans, plots and BOMs. Echelon must have a field day on our phone lines.
22:18:32  <peter1138> BOM is usually Bill of Materials...
22:18:42  <Prof_Frink> Indeedy.
22:19:17  <Tefad_> hehe..
22:19:18  <Gonozal_VIII> indeededly is the correct spelling
22:19:50  <Prof_Frink> Not if you're saying "Indeedy.".
22:21:21  <nappe1> hmmh... now it compiles and runs but there's no that new option. :) Something is changed still in settings, as the savegames aren't compatible anymore. :D
22:21:41  <nappe1> hmmh... what I am missing... let me see...
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22:30:03  <nappe1> static const char *_patches_economy[] needed updating at least... let see if I would be more successful this time...
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22:37:54  <nappe1> and now it works. :)
22:39:42  <nappe1> a bit more testing and then I need to just get another set of source code (this time without adding dozen of other patches) merge the latest Day Length patch and then make these same modifications on that and make my own day length patch version with this new feature. :) Easy, eh??
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23:23:02  <Gonozal_VIII> the sun will rise next week!
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23:26:42  <nappe1> Gonozal_VIII: umm... how north you are living? :) somewhere near Hammerfest (Norway) longitude? :)
23:27:02  <Prof_Frink> Gonozal_VIII: Well yes, Susan saved the Hogfather.
23:27:15  <Gonozal_VIII> in a steep valley..
23:27:32  <Gonozal_VIII> no son from october to february
23:27:35  <Gonozal_VIII> sun
23:27:55  <nappe1> Gonozal_VIII: well, that explains a bit... :)
23:28:36  <Gonozal_VIII> huh?
23:34:03  <Gonozal_VIII> lots of vampires spend the winter months here
23:35:28  <Sacro> yes
23:35:38  <Sacro> people are saying "in front of" when they mean "in rear of"
23:35:50  <Sacro> 'so official UK practice is to use the terms in rear of and in advance of. When a train is waiting at a signal it is "in rear of" that signal and the danger being protected by the signal is "in advance of" the train and signal.'
23:36:12  <Gonozal_VIII> ...
23:37:00  <Gonozal_VIII> that definition sucks
23:37:59  <Sacro> -> Train -> Signal ->
23:38:04  <Sacro> train is in rear of signal
23:38:11  <Sacro> -> signal -> train ->
23:38:16  <Sacro> train is in advance of signal
23:38:54  <Prof_Frink> s/in advance of/at/
23:38:55  <Sacro> "in front of" signal is ambiguous
23:39:05  <Prof_Frink> Far easier
23:39:40  <Prof_Frink> or "has (not) passed"
23:39:58  <Gonozal_VIII> first train, then signal... train is in rear of signal... makes so much sense :P
23:40:28  <Prof_Frink> Gonozal_VIII: Well, the signal is to the rear of the train
23:40:40  <Sacro> noooooo
23:40:41  <Prof_Frink> I can see where the crazy fools are coming from
23:40:43  <Gonozal_VIII> it is
23:40:51  <Sacro> the signal is not to the rear of the train
23:40:56  <Sacro> the train is to the rear of the signal
23:41:05  <Sacro> from the point of view of the signalbox in the middle
23:41:28  <Gonozal_VIII> wtf point of view of signalbox?
23:42:21  * Sacro sighs
23:42:45  * Prof_Frink sends Sacro back to hull for being silly
23:42:58  <Gonozal_VIII> [train moving right][engine]_____[signal facing train]
23:43:11  <Gonozal_VIII> that train is in front of the signal :P
23:43:28  <Sacro> no
23:43:30  <Prof_Frink> The train has not passed the signal.
23:43:31  <Sacro> its in rear of the signal
23:43:49  <Gonozal_VIII> and how does that make sense sacro?
23:43:49  <Sacro> your point of view is on the right
23:43:56  <Sacro> you are looking at a signal
23:43:59  <Sacro> with a train behind it
23:44:09  <Gonozal_VIII> why would i look at the signal from the back?
23:44:17  <Sacro> because thats the established way
23:44:34  <Prof_Frink> Gonozal_VIII: It's a standard. It's not supposed to be sensible.
23:44:51  <Sacro> A term used regularly is to talk of in advance of and in rear of. These always apply to the driver's viewpoint from his footplate. The next signal he reaches is in advance of him. The last signal box he passed is in rear of him.
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23:45:06  <Gonozal_VIII> ah... so that's why you cars all drive on the wrong side, you look at them from the wrong side
23:45:07  <Sacro> but from a signals point of view
23:45:15  <Sacro> the last train that passed is in advance
23:45:20  <Sacro> the next train to pass is in rear
23:45:59  <Gonozal_VIII> even from signal view the train is in front
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23:46:10  <Prof_Frink> It would be so much simpler if up/down wasn't taken
23:46:16  <Gonozal_VIII> only from signal assview it's otherwise
23:46:54  <Prof_Frink> Gonozal_VIII: Actually it's consistent
23:47:03  <Gonozal_VIII> actually it sucks
23:47:11  <Sacro> Gonozal_VIII: how do you define "in front of"
23:47:18  <Prof_Frink> the front is always in the direction of traven
23:47:21  <Sacro> surely that all depends which side you are sat at
23:47:30  <Sacro> Prof_Frink: not on bidi
23:47:42  <Gonozal_VIII> the side where the lights point is the front of the signal
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23:48:24  <Prof_Frink> Sacro: OK then, "rear" in this case is always against the direction of travel
23:48:26  <Sacro> Gonozal_VIII: which is the opposite direction to the front of the train
23:48:37  <Sacro> which is stupid and confusing
23:48:44  <Prof_Frink> So a train that has not passed a signal is to the rear of the signal
23:48:44  <Gonozal_VIII> both front
23:48:52  <Sacro> the front of a signal is the bit *without* lights
23:48:53  <Gonozal_VIII> signal is in front of train, train is in front of signal
23:49:29  <Sacro> but that could mean anything
23:49:34  <Gonozal_VIII> [00:48:51] Sacro: the front of a signal is the bit *without* lights <-- see... that's the part that sucks
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23:51:20  <Gonozal_VIII> that's like: the front of a horse is the part where the horseapples come out
23:51:38  <Sacro> eh?
23:51:39  <Prof_Frink> Gonozal_VIII: the signal faces the block it's protecting
23:51:46  <Sacro> Prof_Frink: yes!
23:51:55  <Sacro> it does not face the train
23:51:59  <Gonozal_VIII> then the train is in front of the signal block^^
23:52:12  <Sacro> no
23:52:16  <Sacro> its behind the signal block
23:52:24  <Sacro> if it was in front of it then it would have passed it
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23:54:56  <Gonozal_VIII> doesn't make any sense and sucks
23:55:12  <Sacro> it makes perfect sense
23:55:21  <Sacro> just ignore the whole in front/ behind idea
23:55:23  <Gonozal_VIII> has probably been invented by the same guy that decided to drive on the wrong side and use imperial units
23:55:34  <Sacro> what?
23:55:52  <Sacro> driving on the left makes perfect sense
23:56:10  <Prof_Frink> more likely invented by the same guy that decided "up" was towards London
23:56:11  <Sacro> and it was the bloody europeans who invented metric in the first place
23:56:14  <Gonozal_VIII> you're brainwashed :P
23:56:22  <Sacro> we've been using imperial since few thousand BC
23:56:35  <Sacro> Prof_Frink: that is confusing at times
23:56:45  * Sacro notes that KX is on the right on simsig
23:56:48  <Sacro> so up ->
23:56:50  <Sacro> and down <-
23:56:56  <Gonozal_VIII> up is towards london? wtf london is in the south of your island thingy
23:56:59  <Sacro> but on peterborough
23:57:04  <Sacro> up -> and down <-
23:57:48  <Prof_Frink> Sacro: But if that wasn't the case, we could use up/downstream for defining relative positions on track
23:57:59  <Sacro> Prof_Frink: quite possibly
23:58:10  <Gonozal_VIII> O_o
23:58:15  <Gonozal_VIII> what stream?
23:58:42  <Sacro> but advance/rear is from ABS
23:58:46  <Sacro> which is ftw
23:58:58  <Prof_Frink> "train is upstream of signal" == "train is in rear of signal" == "train has not passed signal"
23:59:16  <Gonozal_VIII> == train is in front of signal

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