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00:03:13 *** Journy [~Journier@c-67-175-85-253.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 00:03:16 <Journy> hey guys 00:04:01 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:04:15 *** ben_goodger [~ben@host81-153-69-88.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 00:04:26 *** jez9999 [centario@87-194-212-214.bethere.co.uk] has quit [] 00:05:47 <Journy> I have a question, I downloaded the serbian train set, which was supposed to give me trains in the 1870's or so, but when i load the GRF for the set, i dont get the train set, i get the standard trains... 00:07:03 <Ammlller> Journy: maybe you took the narrow gauge set 00:07:18 <Ammlller> take a look on the maglev depot 00:07:20 <Journy> im trying both sets actually, and neither are giving me anything. 00:07:29 <Journy> standard gauge and narrow. 00:08:10 <Journy> is there a certain trick to get the set to load? 00:08:12 <Ammlller> do you use other grfs then that? 00:08:33 <Journy> yes, a aviator aircraft set 00:08:36 <Ammlller> and which climate do you play? 00:08:49 <Journy> temperate... hmmmm i bet thats wrong isnt it. 00:08:59 <Ammlller> no temperate is fine 00:09:32 <Journy> hmm 00:10:59 <Journy> do i have to load both the narrow gauge rail set along with the "narrow gauge rails" grf? 00:11:29 <Ammlller> which version of ottd do you play? 00:12:13 <Gonozal_VIII> you need to load the narrow gauge rail grf with parameter 4 00:12:29 <Ammlller> well, you need narrow gauge rails, else you have ugly maglev tracks 00:12:54 <Gonozal_VIII> no, the vehicle grf doesn't load at all then 00:13:11 <Gonozal_VIII> but you can see the reason in the newgrf window... 00:13:20 <Journy> hmm 00:13:32 <Ammlller> Gonozal_VIII: that depense on version 00:14:02 <Gonozal_VIII> everybody should be using a new version!!!!11111 00:14:13 <Ammlller> wow, nice error msg now 00:14:18 <Journy> hmmm 00:14:34 <Journy> would this be caused because i am using the ChrisIN patches.. 00:14:43 <Ammlller> autsch 00:15:00 <Ammlller> show us a screen from your NewGRF setting window 00:15:29 <Gonozal_VIII> autsch is not very english :P 00:15:43 <Ammlller> well, it shouldn't tell anything 00:16:14 <Ammlller> but Journy, why do you like to use ChrisIN? 00:16:39 <Gonozal_VIII> chrisin has good stuff... 00:17:02 <Ammlller> well, that isn't a reason to use it 00:17:26 <Ammlller> there are reasons to use Gonozal_VIII patchpacks :-P 00:17:46 <Journy> ummm because i cant figure out how to get gonozal's thing set up. 00:18:03 <Gonozal_VIII> ^^ 00:18:25 <Ammlller> but which feature are you missing? 00:18:48 <Ammlller> (just wondering) 00:19:17 <Journy> i dont know? 00:19:21 <Journy> im new to this game 00:19:56 <Ammlller> I would suggest to begin with official releases 00:20:24 <Ammlller> those INs are for experienced players and mostly very alpha 00:21:34 <Gonozal_VIII> not release... betas or nightlies are best to start with imho 00:21:42 <Gonozal_VIII> release is sooooo old 00:21:49 <Journy> http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/3848/openttdgo9.jpg 00:21:55 <Ammlller> hmm, beta IS a release 00:22:21 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-136-75.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:22:28 <Ammlller> Journy: you didn't load stanard set 00:22:40 <Journy> im trying everything. 00:22:41 <Ammlller> and you need to load rails BEFORE train set 00:22:50 <Journy> whats the difference? 00:22:52 <Gonozal_VIII> narrow should work alone too but yes, rails first 00:22:52 <Ammlller> you can both load at once 00:22:55 <Journy> you have to order stuff? 00:23:03 <Gonozal_VIII> yes you have to order stuff 00:23:08 <Journy> oh. 00:23:13 <Ammlller> of course, thats the trick :-) 00:23:21 <Journy> why does that matter? 00:23:23 <Gonozal_VIII> everything that is used by something else has to be loaded before that 00:23:29 <Journy> hmm 00:23:32 <Gonozal_VIII> not really... but that's a good rule^^ 00:23:59 <Journy> still doesnt work 00:24:09 <Ammlller> how do you know? 00:24:21 <Ammlller> show us a screen from ingame 00:24:23 <Journy> loaded the narrow gauge rails, then serbian narrow gauge rail set, loaded up a game and nothing. 00:24:26 <Gonozal_VIII> the newgrf settings window ingame shows if it's loaded 00:24:36 <Journy> umm 00:24:43 <Journy> its only showing me the standard train sets? 00:24:52 <Journy> oh wait 00:25:05 <Journy> i changed the selection to maglev 00:25:17 <Journy> now i have it i believe 00:25:35 <Journy> yup 00:26:15 <Journy> well that was a learning experience. 00:26:31 <Journy> Now with Gonozal's patch pack thing, i cant figure out how to compile the damn thing 00:26:41 <Journy> doesnt work for me. 00:26:53 <Ammlller> you are lucky, the owner is here... :P 00:26:54 <Gonozal_VIII> patch it, then make it :-) 00:27:25 * Journy is confuzzled 00:27:39 <Gonozal_VIII> but i'm quite clueless about compilers... 00:27:53 <Journy> i was trying to compile it 00:27:59 <Journy> with the uh.. 00:28:14 <Journy> BuildOTTD 00:28:19 <Journy> which is seemingly simple 00:28:30 <Gonozal_VIII> only works on xp 00:28:39 <Journy> indeed, thats apparently true 00:28:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Journy: you must choose the exact same revision as the patch says 00:28:53 <Journy> im using vista. 00:29:26 <Eddi|zuHause> then upgrade to xp ;) 00:29:30 <Ammlller> Journy: there are precompiled winbis available 00:29:40 <Journy> where do i find them? 00:29:45 <Ammlller> same thread 00:29:45 <Journy> i kept looking but couldnt 00:29:50 <Journy> lies! 00:30:23 <Gonozal_VIII> maybe that gonozal guy put a link to a binary in the first post 00:30:24 <Ammlller> no, just read the first post 00:31:26 <Journy> oh ... wow. 00:31:38 <Journy> was that there about a week ago? 00:31:48 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. 00:32:00 <Journy> well ill be first to say im blind. 00:32:00 <Gonozal_VIII> has been there all the time 00:32:46 <Eddi|zuHause> honestly, i have never acutally looked at the post, but i was fairly confident ;) 00:33:07 <Ammlller> Eddi|zuHause: :-) 00:33:29 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-108-75.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: Caught sigterm, terminating...] 00:33:52 <Journy> ok thats done. 00:38:33 <Journy> first time i loaded up the gonozal compile, it said error with IN DIF? 00:38:37 <Journy> or problem with in dif 00:38:50 <Journy> then i shut it down restarted it and it didnt do it again.. 00:39:08 <Gonozal_VIII> not problem with "in dif"^^ 00:39:23 <Gonozal_VIII> problem in "dif_blah" 00:39:43 <Gonozal_VIII> difficulty array size changed from 18 to 20 00:39:59 <Journy> what does that mean? 00:40:21 <Gonozal_VIII> the new loan stuff 00:40:39 <Eddi|zuHause> means it read diff_custom from the config file, expected 20 items, found only 18, made error message 00:40:47 <Journy> gotcha 00:41:18 <Journy> question , how do i send money to other companies, in the economy tab of the patches window? 00:41:28 <Journy> i always select yes on that but how do i do it? 00:42:00 <Eddi|zuHause> err... through the client list, i think 00:42:11 <Ammlller> Gonozal_VIII: question to that loan thing 00:42:14 <Eddi|zuHause> can't give money to AI players, i believe 00:42:21 <Ammlller> why does that change diff_settings 00:42:47 <Journy> argh 00:42:55 <Gonozal_VIII> various reasons :-) 00:43:27 <Ammlller> that is for max loan 00:43:49 <Ammlller> and the 2.? 00:44:02 <Gonozal_VIII> dunno 00:47:38 <Journy> wow lots of power on these 1873 serbian trains 00:47:44 <Journy> i dont know what ill do with all 150hp 00:49:08 <Gonozal_VIII> 16 km/h :-) 00:49:18 <Gonozal_VIII> but they can make profit 00:49:35 <Journy> oh my.. 00:49:46 <Journy> they will make profit just incredibly slowly 00:50:08 <Gonozal_VIII> that's because they are slow ;-) 00:50:17 <Journy> yea 00:50:25 <Journy> how do i change the autosave rate? 00:50:25 <Gonozal_VIII> your tracks will be very crowded 00:50:39 <Eddi|zuHause> in the game settings 00:50:41 <Gonozal_VIII> same as always 00:51:27 <Journy> yea in the other build i had it didnt save daily though so i never touched it. 00:51:53 <Gonozal_VIII> i should probably change the default^^ 00:53:05 <Journy> daily was lagging my computer 00:53:17 <Journy> i was wondering why the game was freezing up sorta 00:56:45 <Journy> sweet, i sorta like extremely slow train action 00:58:07 <Gonozal_VIII> but you need like 50 trains for a single mine^^ 00:59:15 <Journy> yea 01:05:04 <Journy> wow im so rich with such slow moving trains 01:05:13 <Journy> the empire begins. 01:15:30 <Journy> does a caboose serve a purpose? 01:15:33 <Journy> or just for looks 01:16:47 <Gonozal_VIII> it does serve a purpose in my version because i replaced it with the transrapid... 01:16:59 <Gonozal_VIII> but that was before enginepool 01:26:30 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F26C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:36:01 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B777D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:36:27 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B777D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:36:42 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B777D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:41:49 *** Journy [~Journier@c-67-175-85-253.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:42:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76279.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:46:49 *** stevenh [~stevenh@116.66.228.202] has joined #openttd 01:58:44 * TheMasterSwordsman is assuming that OpenTTD has been built for Linux. 02:01:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> whatever you mean by that... 02:05:20 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B777D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:05:29 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B777D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:11:38 *** TheMasterSwordsman [~TMS@71-12-20-070.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.triforcetour.com/] 02:21:10 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:29:48 *** nycerine [~lol@ti541110a340-0114.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 02:30:23 *** Nitehawk 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[~jeff@c122-108-43-0.eburwd9.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 07:31:15 <Celestar_> morning 07:31:17 *** Celestar_ is now known as Celestar 07:31:43 <peter1139> Hi 07:34:10 *** McHawk [~hawk@p5489FFC6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:34:42 *** peter1139 is now known as peter1138 07:52:17 *** Gekz [~brendan@CPE-121-218-187-254.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:53:13 *** egladil [~egladil@83.233.184.124] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:02:22 <Poopsmith> g'day 08:10:16 *** Pinchiukas [~lox@212.122.90.186] has joined #openttd 08:15:29 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 08:20:45 *** Draakon [~chatzilla@88-196-103-43-dsl.trt.estpak.ee] has joined #openttd 08:20:52 <Draakon> hi 08:21:17 <Poopsmith> evening Draakon 08:21:53 <Pinchiukas> morning Draakon 08:22:11 <Draakon> its morning here instead of evening 08:22:20 *** Maedhros [~jc@host81-157-37-130.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 08:22:58 <ln> Draakon: so you only like realistic tv series? 08:23:12 <Draakon> ? 08:23:57 <Draakon> if you are talking about lost, then i have a problem with that only 08:24:30 <ln> only lost should be realistic, others do not matter. ok. 08:24:52 <Draakon> no 08:24:58 <Draakon> i dint say that 08:25:01 <Draakon> *sigh* 08:25:26 *** Gekz [~brendan@CPE-121-218-187-254.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 08:27:36 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:31:15 <Celestar> hey Maedhros 08:34:40 <Draakon> @logs 08:34:57 *** Draakon [~chatzilla@88-196-103-43-dsl.trt.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.12/2008020121]] 08:36:38 <Maedhros> hey Celestar 08:38:14 <Celestar> how'S life? 08:39:05 <Maedhros> it's all good - term's just finished, so i'm enjoying not doing any work for a little while :) 08:39:08 <Maedhros> how about you? 08:41:01 <Celestar> not bad 08:41:08 <Celestar> returning to ottd (= 08:41:34 <Maedhros> good good :-D 08:41:48 <Celestar> trying to understand newgrf_ports :P 08:43:38 *** Trond [~nope@ti131310a080-8931.bb.online.no] has quit [] 08:47:58 *** Trond [~nope@ti131310a080-8931.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 08:48:11 *** Trond [~nope@ti131310a080-8931.bb.online.no] has left #openttd [] 08:48:38 *** Trond [~nope@ti131310a080-8931.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 08:50:22 <peter1138> Brave man :) 08:50:51 <Celestar> haha 08:51:03 <Celestar> ok lets move one level lower: I'm trying to understand newgrf :P 08:51:12 <peter1138> Oh, well, that's easy... 08:52:24 <Celestar> where to start? ;) 08:52:29 <Celestar> the specs? 08:55:01 <ln> Celestar: hey, what do you think about the idea of international flights for OTTD now? a few years ago you said it's an "interesting idea". 08:56:16 <Celestar> you mean flights to the destination outside of the map? 08:57:23 <Celestar> .oO(omg, a 0 billion intenational space station and they need a crowbar because a bolt is stuck :S) 08:58:02 <peter1138> Probably the Americans put an imperial bolt in... 08:58:19 <peter1138> Hmm, 9MB/s for 5 hours... 08:58:21 <Celestar> nah, device is apparently colder than expected ... 08:58:26 <ln> Celestar: yeah. 08:58:41 <Celestar> ln: let's finish newgrf_ports first, shall we? ;) 08:58:46 <ln> fine. :) 08:58:51 <peter1138> Oh, only 160GB... 08:58:59 <peter1138> Is there a spec for newgrf_ports yet? 08:59:20 <ln> Celestar: also I'd like to see different countries on the map, but that would probably be more complicated. 08:59:21 <Celestar> peter1138: I've written RichK an e-mail regarding this question; as far as I know, it's been fairly complete. 09:00:42 <peter1138> Mind you, it's in a branch, isn't it? 09:00:48 <Celestar> yeah 09:01:36 *** Morloth [~Morloth@ip503cbc92.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 09:04:56 <peter1138> /* $Id: newgrf_fsmports.cpp 12351 2008-03-10 15:26:39Z richk $ */ 09:05:07 <peter1138> /** @file newgrf_station.cpp Functions for dealing with station classes and custom stations. */ 09:05:11 <peter1138> Inconsistent ;) 09:05:28 <Celestar> inconsistent with what? :P 09:05:39 <peter1138> He's copied stuff but not updated comments :) 09:06:51 <peter1138> Hmm, not sure it needs a whole new station spec list :o 09:06:55 <peter1138> (And resolver) 09:07:59 <Celestar> dunno either. 09:08:04 <Celestar> gotta read through all this 09:12:47 <peter1138> Gah, fucking bosses... 09:12:56 <peter1138> "Blah de blah was slow on Sunday, any idea why?" 09:13:08 <peter1138> Well no... if you'd told me on Sunday I'd've been able to look... 09:16:11 *** stevenh [~sh@dsl-202-45-99-10.ACT.netspace.net.au] has joined #openttd 09:17:03 *** Morloth [~Morloth@ip503cbc92.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Quit: Morloth] 09:24:10 <Maedhros> muhaha, my hotkeys patch works 09:24:18 <Maedhros> it's still quite unfinished, though 09:24:28 <Maedhros> what do you think? http://devs.openttd.org/~maedhros/hotkeys_v1.diff 09:28:43 <peter1138> Hmm 09:28:51 <peter1138> Eeenteresting... 09:31:56 *** 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[~egladil@83.233.184.124] has joined #openttd 10:52:36 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N903P000.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:52:53 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 10:53:23 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N754P009.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 10:54:57 *** Nitehawk [~nitehawk@c-98-200-106-108.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:57:36 *** Dark_Link^ [~glidegame@fw.dormnet.his.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:04:17 *** Zr40 [~zr40@82-168-238-114.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 11:15:09 *** divo [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 11:18:08 *** a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-88-79.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: The ending changes tone & is actually quite sad - but it involves a scene of necrophilia, so that's just another plus in my book.....] 11:19:33 *** a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-88-79.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 11:27:14 *** TheJosh [~josh@d220-238-239-180.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 11:28:40 *** Ammller [~Ammler@adsl-84-227-130-110.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:29:16 <TheJosh> I have a dilema. There is no clear consesnous on how to display the % of shares owned by the company itslelf. A lot of people are saying to go with manager name, the original patch is company name, but there are other suggestions as well. any ideas? 11:29:57 *** josch [~josch@p57AD7B7C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:30:02 <josch> hello! 11:30:06 <peter1138> Well you're the author, you get to decide ;) 11:30:12 <josch> why can one build while the game is paused? 11:30:19 <josch> s/can/cant/ 11:30:28 <peter1138> Because the AI can't build while paused. 11:30:31 <Noldo> it's a cheat 11:30:34 <peter1138> But you can enable it in the cheat menu. 11:30:41 <josch> lol? 11:31:00 <josch> okay the ai cannot build while paused but it is MUCH faster than I am 11:31:12 <TheJosh> and MUCH crapper 11:31:13 <SpComb> competing against the AI is like competing against ... 11:31:17 <josch> so it's only fair for the human to be able to build while paused? 11:31:21 <TheJosh> a small child 11:31:26 <Noldo> SpComb: a goldfish? 11:31:32 <TheJosh> a very small child. say 2 weeks 11:31:35 <SpComb> the goldfish is a good choice 11:31:36 <josch> haha 11:31:47 <TheJosh> a baby goldfish 11:31:52 <SpComb> in any case, it's not very much fun 11:32:03 <TheJosh> a retarted baby goldfish 11:32:17 <TheJosh> thus, multiplayer. or #openttdcoop 11:32:25 <Sacro> zomg tis TheJosh 11:32:38 <TheJosh> zomg? 11:32:42 <Sacro> indeed 11:32:52 <TheJosh> sounds like an alien race or somehting 11:33:37 <josch> problem is, that the ai seems braindead and builds everywhere where it can build - I have no idea where it takes the money from 11:33:41 <Noldo> TheJosh: is the "rest" of to company going to be own by the company itself or the manager in your shares model later? 11:33:52 <Gonozal_VIII> oh noes, the zomg are invading earth! 11:34:04 <Noldo> josch: it can terraform for free 11:34:07 <TheJosh> Gonozal_VIII: HA HA HA 11:34:38 <josch> lol terraform for free??? this explains EVERYTHING 11:35:01 <Noldo> on a 64*64 map it looks like the ground is alive 11:35:53 *** Ammller [~Ammler@adsl-84-227-130-110.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 11:36:40 <TheJosh> REAL WORLD: If you form a company, your the owner, yeah? then you can float shares to make capital to expand. Somewhere around then, you hire a manger. You may sell half of your company as shares to make several million dollars or whatever, but you still end up owning the 51% (typically) of the company. In the real world, the manager owns nothing 11:36:43 <Gonozal_VIII> the evil underground zomg! 11:37:14 <TheJosh> thus, the company owning itself made some kind of sence, but its probably clearer to say that the manager owns the remaing 50% because its simpler to understand, even if it is wrong 11:37:19 <Gonozal_VIII> you're owner, not manager 11:37:20 <peter1138> I think it's assumed that the manager is the owner. 11:37:50 <TheJosh> well Ill make it the manager name then 11:38:35 <peter1138> But it's confusing to have a list of companies and then a manager... 11:38:36 <TheJosh> should it say "(manager)" after their name in the list of owners? or put it into another colour? 11:38:52 <Noldo> There are so many real worlds 11:38:59 <TheJosh> or "(founder)" 11:39:25 <Gonozal_VIII> the world of the zomg! 11:39:36 <TheJosh> argh! the zomg are coming!!! 11:39:46 <Tefad> real world.. scale.. none of this applies to ttd. 11:39:58 <TheJosh> Gonozal_VIII: do you mind if i use zomg as a character in a game I am making? 11:39:59 <peter1138> :D 11:40:25 <Gonozal_VIII> why would i mind? it was your idea 11:40:34 <TheJosh> you wrote it first 11:40:38 <Tefad> no. 11:40:43 <Tefad> zomg is ancient 11:40:51 <Tefad> like.. before internets 11:40:54 <Noldo> public domain? 11:41:02 <Gonozal_VIII> there is no befoe internets 11:41:24 <Celestar> back 11:41:27 <Gonozal_VIII> that's all a myth, spread by the people in bielefeld 11:42:36 <Gonozal_VIII> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bielefeld_Conspiracy 11:42:41 <Gonozal_VIII> fyi ;-) 11:43:03 <TheJosh> whats better to have after the manager name, '(manager)', or '(founder)'??? 11:43:14 <Sacro> inventor? 11:43:23 <Tefad> i'd prefer doofus in charge. 11:43:38 <Gonozal_VIII> (DIC) 11:43:47 <Sacro> oooh 11:43:50 <TheJosh> you could make your own language for it, and make it that 11:43:50 <Sacro> or PHB 11:44:03 <TheJosh> oh the fun you could have with 'silly english'... 11:44:30 <Sacro> senglish? 11:44:31 <Tefad> founder sounds fine 11:44:39 <Sacro> sengillyish! 11:44:43 <Tefad> or primary/secondary 11:44:48 <Tefad> whatever 11:44:48 <Sacro> inaugrurator! 11:45:06 <TheJosh> i like inaugrurator 11:45:17 <Gonozal_VIII> silly english^tm 11:45:25 <TheJosh> vote: inaugrurator, founder, manager 11:45:34 <Sacro> el capitain 11:45:53 <Gonozal_VIII> avd 11:46:00 <TheJosh> i give up 11:46:07 <peter1138> TheJosh: (manager) 11:46:32 <peter1138> Reason being you can 'change' the manager, and then they're not the founder... 11:46:45 <TheJosh> good point 11:46:55 <TheJosh> and there called the manager everywhere else 11:46:59 <peter1138> Yes. 11:47:04 <peter1138> Also, my elbows hurt... 11:47:37 <TheJosh> why is that? soo much silly-english? 11:47:49 <peter1138> Probably due to leaning on the desk, heh... 11:47:56 <Tefad> Gonozal_VIII: this reminds me of "prove that the moon exists" nonsense 11:48:30 <keyweed_> i've actually been to bielefeld 11:48:35 <Sacro> TheJosh: they'r 11:48:36 <TheJosh> its so annoying that you have to recompile whenever you change your strings 11:48:37 *** keyweed_ is now known as keyweed 11:48:39 <Sacro> *they're 11:54:55 <TheJosh> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=36627 11:57:08 <Tefad> Gonozal_VIII: http://www.holocaust-history.org/~rjg/challenge.shtml 11:57:51 <TheJosh> anyway im off to be now 11:57:53 <TheJosh> nite to all 11:58:04 *** TheJosh [~josh@d220-238-239-180.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:58:18 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 12:06:55 <Gonozal_VIII> hehe a mock of those mars pictures 12:13:04 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd 12:14:13 *** LordAzamath [~LAlord]@ip52.cab21.ltln.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 12:17:42 *** Brianetta [~brian@77-103-231-158.cable.ubr05.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:22:05 *** Morloth [~bram@53542231.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 12:22:31 <Celestar> Brianetta: :) 12:23:03 <Brianetta> (: 12:23:15 <LordAzamath> (::)::(::) 12:24:05 <keyweed> $@% 12:24:15 <Gekz> np: Die toten Hosen - Hier kommt Alex 12:25:05 <keyweed> ah. nice. since he's coming, he can finish writing this document for me 12:25:18 <Gonozal_VIII> who's alex? 12:26:24 <Gekz> lol 12:26:27 <Gekz> you are dicks. 12:26:29 <keyweed> i don't know, but he'd better start typing 12:26:29 <Gekz> the end. 12:26:37 <keyweed> and you're crazy! 12:26:48 <keyweed> actually. multiple misspelled crazies! 12:26:54 *** Pinchiukas [~lox@212.122.90.186] has quit [Quit: pwnt] 12:36:48 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:45:14 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C277.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:55:28 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c122-108-43-0.eburwd9.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ThePizzaKing] 13:05:00 <josch> something I never found out: 13:05:07 <josch> how to get back to the main menu?? 13:05:25 *** titanbeos [~david@wbs-196-2-105-242.wbs.co.za] has joined #openttd 13:05:47 <Gonozal_VIII> abandon game 13:05:48 <peter1138> You, er, end the game.. 13:06:02 *** titanbeos [~david@wbs-196-2-105-242.wbs.co.za] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:06:25 <josch> ah i just found it 13:06:32 <josch> it's in the save menu 13:06:46 <Celestar> it'S the "system" menu, not the "save" menu :P 13:12:10 *** titanbeos [~david@wbs-196-2-105-242.wbs.co.za] has joined #openttd 13:13:22 *** titanbeos [~david@wbs-196-2-105-242.wbs.co.za] has left #openttd [] 13:23:33 *** frosch123 [~mtce@pascal.math.tu-clausthal.de] has joined #openttd 13:25:54 *** llugo [~lugo@p4FD5F9FE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:32:43 *** lugo [~lugo@p4FD5CC0D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:34:58 <Sacro> argh a Celestar :o 13:36:43 *** LordAzamath [~LAlord]@ip52.cab21.ltln.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- In tests, 0x09 out of 0x0A l33t h4x0rz prefer it :)] 13:38:29 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 13:38:32 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:40:55 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 13:42:03 *** Osai^zZz`off is now known as Osai 13:48:18 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:51:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> in the wrong colour! 13:56:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> # Lass uns diskutieren, denn in unserem schönen Land 13:56:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> # Sind zumindest theoretisch alle furchtbar tolerant 13:56:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> # Worte wollen nichts bewegen, Worte tun niemandem weh 13:56:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> # Darum lass uns drÃŒber reden, Diskussionen sind ok 13:57:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> # NEIN! - geh mal wieder auf die StraÃe, geh mal wieder demonstrieren 13:57:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> # Denn wer nicht mehr versucht zu kÀmpfen, kann nur verlieren! 13:57:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> # Die dich verarschen, die hast du selbst gewÀhlt 13:57:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> # Darum lass sie deine Stimme hören, weil jede Stimme zÀhlt 13:57:19 <Rubidium> So desu ne. 13:58:41 <Gonozal_VIII> hai 13:58:49 <peter1138> No. 14:01:08 <keyweed> "the only way to win, is not to play at all" 14:01:48 <peter1138> You've lost the game? 14:02:39 <keyweed> no. i never loose, at anything. 14:02:39 <Gonozal_VIII> did you look under your bed? 14:02:52 <peter1138> You're tight then? 14:03:10 <keyweed> lol. i'm very tight. but i doubt you mean what i understand 14:03:32 * Rubidium ponders a Blendtec vs keyweed contest. 14:04:22 <keyweed> i define 'winning' in this context as the ability to be blended. 14:04:42 <Rubidium> :O 14:05:19 <Gonozal_VIII> doesn't that hurt? 14:06:31 <keyweed> only for a short time 14:06:42 <Rubidium> best go head first 14:08:34 <keyweed> indeed 14:09:19 *** Ammler [~Ammler@members.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [] 14:09:21 <Gonozal_VIII> you never know until you try 14:10:18 *** Ammller is now known as temp 14:10:33 *** temp is now known as Ammler 14:12:16 * keyweed wanders off in search of a keyweed-sized-blender 14:13:20 <Gonozal_VIII> or take a usual one and start with the parts that fit in 14:13:40 <keyweed> that's cheating 14:24:29 *** einKarl [~einKarl@p549925BE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 14:25:49 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 14:29:41 *** Morloth [~bram@53542231.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:30:21 *** thgergo [~Administr@dsl51B65D8A.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 14:32:43 *** RichK67 [~RichK67@88-97-28-112.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:32:53 <RichK67> hi 14:43:39 <Digitalfox> Oh a RichK67, Hi.. 14:43:51 <Digitalfox> How's new ports going ? :) 14:44:05 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A4B7E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:46:29 *** Slowpoke [~Lobster@dslb-088-073-237-206.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 14:52:57 *** Dark_Link^ [~glidegame@fw.dormnet.his.se] has joined #openttd 14:52:57 *** NukeBuster [~wouter@a62-251-21-79.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 14:52:57 <RichK67> ive synced newGRF_ports to a fairly recent level, and solved the bugs that got introduced 14:52:57 <RichK67> actual progress on my todo list though is negligeable 14:52:57 <Gonozal_VIII> finish it faster, then there is less to sync :P 14:53:17 <Gonozal_VIII> hehe 14:53:32 <RichK67> pretty much waiting for v0.6.0 - there are some new goodies coming immediately post 0.6.0, that i need to make use of, so its a bit on hold until then 14:53:35 <RichK67> :P 15:05:38 <frosch123> Is there a difference between 'void foo(const Object &bar)' and 'void foo(const Object bar)'? 15:06:42 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@adsl-58.36.Static.ssp.fi] has quit [Quit: You just lost the game] 15:08:44 <peter1138> Yes 15:09:01 <peter1138> Former passes a reference, latter passes a struct. 15:09:27 <frosch123> Does it really create a new struct though it is 'const' 15:09:37 <peter1138> It should do. 15:10:11 <peter1138> Maybe it can be optimised not to, but I don't know. 15:11:54 <Sacro> RichK67! :D 15:13:55 <RichK67> hi Sacro 15:15:06 <RichK67> just popping in for a quick look round - slow work day 15:17:03 <Sacro> ahh tis nice to see you 15:17:17 <Sacro> RichK67: get yourself onto peter's server, tis like the old days 15:17:21 <Sacro> UKRS, PBS 15:17:22 <Sacro> all good fun 15:20:55 <larsemil> hey what is the best way to get a town to grow? now i build some bus stations and build roads for them and then i deliver goods 15:21:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> cities grow faster than towns 15:21:44 <RichK67> Sacro: new PBS i assume 15:21:50 <larsemil> well i meant cities. thought it was the same 15:23:14 <Sacro> RichK67: indeed it is 15:23:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> new PBS are completely awesome 15:23:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> larsemil: cities are bigger than towns 15:23:53 <larsemil> so is there something else to do to get them to grow? 15:24:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> just transport stuff 15:24:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> the more stations, the better (up to 5) 15:24:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> you can also fund office buildings 15:25:16 <RichK67> Sacro: so is the build he uses downloadable somewhere? 15:25:35 <Sacro> RichK67: errr... not sure 15:26:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> which build does he use anyway? 15:26:16 <peter1138> Who? 15:26:44 <RichK67> peter1138: you on your server 15:26:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> HE! 15:27:00 *** Brianetta [~brian@77-103-231-158.cable.ubr05.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 15:27:08 <peter1138> Oh, r12187 (iirc) plus just the patch. 15:27:25 <RichK67> so connect name will be r12187M 15:27:31 <peter1138> Yes 15:27:36 <RichK67> ok 15:27:37 <peter1138> looking for a binary in the thread 15:29:33 <peter1138> hmm don't see one 15:38:22 *** Osai is now known as Osai^away 15:45:48 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 15:52:11 *** LordAzamath [~LAlord]@ip52.cab21.ltln.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 15:53:16 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:55:51 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:57:52 <Celestar> RichK67: ;) 15:58:14 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 15:58:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12376 /branches/noai/ (4 files in 3 dirs): 15:58:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Remove: from this day on, C++ is removed as supported language to write your NoAI in. The only language to use is Squirrel. 15:58:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: This commit is as preparation of the complete removal of this support. 15:58:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: For reasons why, please check http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/AI:Why_No_C%2B%2B 15:59:11 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:59:24 <peter1138> \o/ 15:59:43 <Celestar> ? 15:59:48 <peter1138> Better AI :D 16:01:24 *** LordAzamath [~LAlord]@ip52.cab21.ltln.starman.ee] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:01:57 <Celestar> :D 16:02:04 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 16:02:28 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 16:04:40 <Celestar> why do I have to tell our system administrator how to generate/use ssh keys ;( 16:06:23 <peter1138> What?? 16:06:43 <Celestar> they have nfi :S 16:06:56 <RichK67> hi cel 16:06:56 <keyweed> lack of either proper education or documentation 16:07:09 <RichK67> [tab] ... oops ... Celestar 16:09:01 <Celestar> RichK67: how's life? 16:09:56 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:11:26 <RichK67> variable - generally been busy achieving little 16:11:37 <Celestar> hehe 16:11:41 <Celestar> sounds very much like me 16:11:45 <Celestar> did you get my mail? 16:11:50 <RichK67> and i replied 16:12:04 <Celestar> o_O 16:12:19 <Celestar> when? 16:12:40 <RichK67> 10:39am (GMT) 16:12:59 <Celestar> nothing arrived (yet). where do you send it to? 16:13:16 <Celestar> s/do/did 16:14:46 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:15:22 *** Osai^away is now known as Osai 16:15:47 *** mucht_home [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:17:34 *** mucht_home [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd 16:17:59 *** Brianetta [~brian@77-103-231-158.cable.ubr05.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:18:03 <RichK67> tum.de.dum.de.dum 16:18:51 <peter1138> .com 16:19:35 *** mucht_home [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:20:01 *** mucht_home [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd 16:22:48 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 16:33:35 <Celestar> :P 16:34:14 <Celestar> peter1138: could we discuss the "action 0 stations" and "action 0 fsmstations" thingy tomorrow a bit? 16:34:25 <peter1138> Er, okay? 16:34:43 <Celestar> good :) because I gotta hit the road 16:38:11 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:38:24 *** planetmaker [~chatzilla@134.102.236.219] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:38:27 *** mucht_home [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:43:31 *** mucht_home [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd 16:45:03 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 16:45:11 *** RichK67 [~RichK67@88-97-28-112.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: RichK67] 16:51:16 *** elmex [~elmex@e180064010.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:52:31 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:54:13 *** fjb [~frank@p5485EB70.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:54:31 <fjb> Hello 16:54:48 <fjb> Moin frosch123 16:54:52 <peter1138> Gah, cacti sucks for high density equipment. 16:55:28 <frosch123> quak fjb 16:55:32 <Gonozal_VIII> then try other plants 16:55:59 <fjb> :-) 16:56:17 <Gonozal_VIII> and quak indeed 16:56:23 <fjb> Mein kleiner grÃŒner Kaktus... :-) 16:56:30 <Gonozal_VIII> steht draussen am balkon 16:56:48 *** mucht_home [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:05 *** planetmaker [~chatzilla@134.102.236.219] has joined #openttd 17:05:09 <peter1138> 500W NorthQ Pacific II Fanless PSU, ATX 2.2 +80efficiency 17:05:20 <peter1138> Fanless: No 17:05:22 <peter1138> :o 17:05:29 <peter1138> A non-fanless fanless psu! 17:06:01 <Gonozal_VIII> maybe it has a fan but it's only for decoration :-) 17:06:11 <Gonozal_VIII> a nostalgic feature 17:07:19 * fjb is not a fan of fanless PSUs. 17:07:20 *** Nitro [~lol@ti541110a340-0114.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 17:07:42 <Gonozal_VIII> it wouldn't be fanless if it had fans 17:10:13 *** anhedral is now known as dih 17:10:47 <peter1138> fjb, why? 17:10:54 <dih> :-) 17:12:13 *** nycerine [~lol@ti541110a340-0114.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:15:40 <fjb> 500W PSUs need some kind of airflow. If the PSU doesn't have a fan, you need to provide an alternate airflow anyway. 17:16:30 <Gonozal_VIII> i guess with the right case, there could be enough thermic airflow 17:16:56 <fjb> Thermic airflow is not enough. 17:17:31 <Gonozal_VIII> if the case has large cooling ribs and heatpies and stuff.. 17:18:05 <fjb> The heatpipes have to reach inside the PSU then. 17:19:16 <peter1138> Hmm, £20 550W PSU... maybe not... 17:19:36 * fjb would not trust that kind of PSU. 17:20:44 *** dih is now known as anhedral 17:21:00 <Ammler> holdri, holdri, holdrio 17:21:00 <peter1138> Quite. 17:21:29 <fjb> Why do you need 500W? And if you need them, how is your cooling concept of the other parts of the system? 17:21:41 <fjb> Moin Ammler 17:22:49 <Ammler> Hi fjb, do you have time to join us on the coop Memberzone Server, we have some issues with ECS and not sure, if they are because of bug or just wrong usage... 17:23:21 <fjb> Ammler: I can have a look. 17:23:22 <peter1138> fjb: i don't, it was just listed as 500W... 17:24:00 <peter1138> er, was looking in the fanless section 17:24:21 * peter1138 assumes 400W is good enough for a normal system... 17:24:26 <peter1138> (is it?) 17:24:45 <fjb> About 350W is still enough for most systems. 17:24:45 <Gonozal_VIII> "normal" 17:25:06 <Gonozal_VIII> depends on what normal is in your opinion 17:25:16 <peter1138> In that case technically I don't need to replace mine, but it is an old noisy one 17:25:20 <peter1138> (no fan speed controller) 17:25:29 <fjb> And if you really need more power you will need a lot of airflow in the system anyway. 17:25:33 <peter1138> Gonozal_VIII: 1 psu, 1 hdd, 1 gfx card... 17:26:03 <Gonozal_VIII> or just place everything inside an aquarium filled with oil :-) 17:26:35 <fjb> peter1138: about 350W is enough for that setup. 17:26:55 <fjb> Ammler: Which version of OpenTTD do I need? 17:27:08 *** Osai is now known as Osai^Kendo 17:28:33 <peter1138> And presumably larger fan == quieter operation? 17:28:44 <peter1138> or ... 17:28:47 <peter1138> larger fan == larger fan... 17:29:07 <fjb> Larger fan is quieter most of the time. 17:29:19 <Ammler> fjb: r12350 17:29:22 <fjb> It moves more air per time unit. 17:29:23 *** Zr40 [~zr40@82-168-238-114.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Quit: Zr40] 17:29:30 <Ammler> server: slave.openttdcoop.org:3980 17:29:33 <Gonozal_VIII> less rpm is less noise 17:29:41 <Ammler> and company pw is your nick :-) 17:30:23 <fjb> Ok 17:30:52 <Ammler> I guess, you have the grfs 17:30:53 *** frosch123 [~mtce@pascal.math.tu-clausthal.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:30:59 <Ammler> else you might need our pack 17:31:46 <Ammler> the biggest problem we have that some cargo don't make profit like sand 17:31:48 <fjb> I will see. I'm getting the source right now, then I need some minutes to compile it. 17:32:06 <Ammler> well, just highlight if you are ready 17:36:02 *** raimar2 [~hawk@p5489C01D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:36:38 <fjb> peter1138: I would buy an Enermax EPR385AWT. 17:37:30 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A4B7E.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [Ping timeout: Hmm ping sucks :D] 17:38:32 <peter1138> Damn, up to £330 for my upgrade then :( 17:38:54 <fjb> What kind of PSU are you using now? 17:39:26 <peter1138> And my cheap 7900GTO is no longer available. 17:39:35 <peter1138> A noisy 300W one 17:39:43 <Gonozal_VIII> you can dedustify it, then it's less noisy 17:39:45 <peter1138> with 20pin ATX 17:39:49 <fjb> Or buy a cheap one which is not that efficient and turn of the power a bit more often. 17:40:08 <peter1138> I turn the power off when not in use, heh 17:40:41 * peter1138 wonders if the ATI drivers for linux are any good yet, since the specs came out 17:41:01 * fjb didn't try the ATI drivers yet. 17:41:33 <fjb> The questions is how many hours a day you are using that PC. 17:41:34 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 17:42:01 <fjb> And look for a hardware powerswitch at the backside of the PSU. 17:42:22 <Gonozal_VIII> why? 17:42:30 <peter1138> The EPR385AWT is fairly cheap anyway 17:42:35 <peter1138> So I may just go with that. 17:43:11 *** McHawk [~hawk@p5489FFC6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:43:14 * peter1138 supposes that 8 years is a fairly long time between upgrades. 17:44:42 <fjb> It is a long time. But that is good, protecting the nature. 17:45:17 <fjb> And there not many cheaper PSUs that I would use. 17:45:29 <fjb> Ammler: I need you GRF pack. 17:45:55 <Ammler> fjb: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/GRF 17:46:37 <fjb> Ammler: Thank you. I never find that link in the wiki. :-) 17:47:05 <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: OK, you could use an external power switch instead. 17:47:09 <Ammler> it would also work with NewGRF 17:47:51 <peter1138> fjb: cheap vs expensive doesn't really mean much for quality 17:48:33 <fjb> peter1138: You are usually right. But there is a minimum price for good things. Everythnig cheaper has to be kind of crap. 17:48:39 <stillunknown> Too cheap is crap. 17:49:54 <stillunknown> A OEM 350W psu for 30'ish euros is reasonable. 17:49:58 <Gonozal_VIII> there's also expensive crap 17:50:03 <stillunknown> True. 17:50:12 <peter1138> Damn, so my 10 energy saving lights for 10p was bad ;( 17:50:23 <peter1138> Ok, however 17:50:31 <peter1138> I'll also need a new graphics card, see. 17:50:33 <mrfrenzy> most cheap energy saving lights really suck 17:50:40 <peter1138> As modern stuff does not have AGP, and my old one is half-dying anyway. 17:51:02 <fjb> AGP is dead... 17:51:06 <mrfrenzy> either they have crappy light colour, make sound, take a long time to start, use too much energy, or burn out early 17:51:06 <peter1138> Quite. 17:51:17 <peter1138> mrfrenzy: but they were 1p each! ;) 17:51:36 <peter1138> Hmm, 8600GT... 17:51:43 <mrfrenzy> wtf, how is that possible? ;) 17:52:00 <fjb> Ammler: I can join now. 17:52:13 <peter1138> mrfrenzy: dunno, originally they were around £3, then they were 1p... 17:52:13 <Ammler> well, I am waiting 17:52:25 <peter1138> Damn IE7 just crashed :p 17:55:22 <peter1138> Argh, so many different variants even on the same chipset :( 17:55:37 <peter1138> 650 vs 680 Mhz... nobody shuold have to care! 17:56:27 <mrfrenzy> haha, I remember the times when every MHz counted 17:56:47 <mrfrenzy> you compared different memory speeds and gpu speeds from different manufacturers of the same card 17:56:53 <peter1138> This is from the same manufacturer... 17:57:01 <mrfrenzy> and with that odd driver version you could get 2 fps extra! 17:57:05 <peter1138> XFX 8600GT vs XFX 8600GT 17:57:11 *** nycerine [~lol@ti541110a340-2776.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 17:57:18 <peter1138> actually there's an XFX 8600GT that's 540 MHz too 17:57:41 <peter1138> wtf is GT supposed to represent if there's a wide range of speeds? 17:57:56 <peter1138> XFX 8600GT XXX is 620 MHz... 17:58:04 <peter1138> XFX 8600GTS XXX is 730... 17:58:05 <peter1138> *sigh* 17:58:09 <peter1138> WHY BOTHER 17:58:29 <glx> GTS != GT 17:58:44 <peter1138> I know, it's 40 quid more 17:58:45 <Prof_Frink> XFX 8600 GTi is 620MHz with a go-faster stripe. 17:59:26 <hylje> red things go fasta 17:59:54 <Prof_Frink> Not always true. 18:00:39 <Prof_Frink> In Australia, for instance, silver things go faster than red things. 18:00:46 <Prof_Frink> The the red things break. 18:01:18 *** helb [~helb@62.240.176.23] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:01:39 *** helb [~helb@62.240.176.23] has joined #openttd 18:02:17 <stillunknown> peter1138: Choose based on chipset, memory, speed, buswidth, not some marketing name. 18:02:28 *** Nitro [~lol@ti541110a340-0114.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:13:11 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host147-239-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:14:10 <Wolf01> hello 18:14:46 *** sunkan [sunkan@sunkan.bsnet.se] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 18:15:52 *** sunkan [sunkan@sunkan.bsnet.se] has joined #openttd 18:23:10 *** yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 18:23:41 <yorick> hello 18:29:50 *** mikl [~mikl@0304ds2-ba.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 18:35:46 *** planetmaker [~chatzilla@134.102.236.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:40:17 <peter1138> stillunknown: there are so many numbers :( 18:40:22 <peter1138> Does manufacturer mean much? 18:40:32 <peter1138> It's all nVidia or ATI anyway... 18:40:56 *** TrueBrain [truelight@openttd.org] has joined #openttd 18:40:56 <stillunknown> I personally have bad experiences with msi. 18:41:19 <TrueBrain> as yorick refuses to talk to me about a subject in a channel not related to general OpenTTD (as else he gets kicked by me :p), and tries to PM me... lets continue it here ;) 18:41:24 <TrueBrain> [19:36] <yorick> why not make masterserver communication TCP? 18:41:30 <TrueBrain> [19:39] <TrueBrain> anyway, masterserver: if it would be TCP, it would be down more often then up 18:41:34 <yorick> oki :) 18:41:36 <TrueBrain> [19:40] <yorick> and does that have a reason (channel is NoAI devel :p) 18:41:45 <TrueBrain> TCP for masterservers == bad 18:41:47 <TrueBrain> period :) 18:41:56 <stillunknown> peter1138: there are some general guidelines. 18:42:03 <peter1138> What about UDP for server list and TCP for server info? 18:42:10 <peter1138> Hmm, they're all done at the same time aren't they... 18:42:20 <TrueBrain> cool, let me kill all the servers out there :) 18:42:22 <Digitalfox> Asus Graphics Card based on ATI no fucking way again in my entire life.. Bought a Asus Ati Radeon 9800XT in 2003 for 600$ and had to replaced it 3 times in 6 months.. 18:42:26 <peter1138> TrueBrain :D 18:42:28 <TrueBrain> I just request the server info like 20 times 18:42:34 <TrueBrain> and well...I repeat that over and over 18:42:39 <TrueBrain> nicest DDoS ever :) 18:42:46 <stillunknown> more Mhz is better, as long as they have the same memory bus and the same amount of shaders 18:42:46 <peter1138> So 18:42:56 <peter1138> yorick has to make the UDP system multi-packet aware 18:42:58 <TrueBrain> you have a VERY limited amount of available TCP sockets 18:43:08 <TrueBrain> where there are almost unlimited amount of UDP sockets (in fact, send against sendto) 18:43:19 <TrueBrain> that would mean recreating TCP 18:43:19 <TrueBrain> useless 18:43:19 <TrueBrain> worthless 18:43:28 <yorick> not entirely 18:43:41 <peter1138> So you're saying we're stuck with < 1500 bytes of data maximum? 18:43:41 <blathijs> stillunknown: What bad experiences? So far, I think MSI makes okay hardware, but they have an incompetent notebook support department 18:43:46 <yorick> the current server list problem has to do with ^^ 18:43:48 <TrueBrain> you guys are over complicating things to the max :) 18:43:55 <Sacro> TO THE MAX! 18:44:03 <peter1138> Probably so, I don't know what yorick wants to achieve. 18:44:07 <TrueBrain> @kick Sacro that was a long time ago 18:44:07 *** Sacro was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [that was a long time ago] 18:44:20 <TrueBrain> what is it exactly what you want to do 18:44:21 <TrueBrain> ? 18:44:22 *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 18:44:25 <Sacro> :( 18:44:40 <yorick> I'm wondering about how to secure the master server list when more servers come 18:44:46 <yorick> selective listing? 18:44:54 <TrueBrain> well, very simple: send out multiple packets 18:44:59 <TrueBrain> without any testing if they ever arrived 18:45:01 <TrueBrain> just send them 18:45:06 <yorick> and if they haven't arrived? 18:45:12 <TrueBrain> well, then they don't 18:45:16 <peter1138> 18:40 TrueBrain> that would mean recreating TCP 18:45:18 <peter1138> 18:40 TrueBrain> useless 18:45:27 <yorick> TrueBrain> without any testing if they ever arrived 18:45:28 <TrueBrain> if you want, make an auto-update that requests a new list every 5 minutes or so 18:45:28 <peter1138> That's what you said when I suggested that? 18:45:35 <blathijs> You could add some sequence numbering 18:45:40 <TrueBrain> peter1138: I never suggested any retrying 18:45:49 <blathijs> And let the client re-request the entire list if it misses any packet 18:45:49 <stillunknown> blathijs: I had a really crap mainbord, and at the time i also found out that a few shops that used to carry msi, didn't do it anymore, precisely over my kind experience. 18:45:54 <TrueBrain> blathijs: possible, a simple number... but I don't see any use of it 18:46:01 <stillunknown> blathijs: It's personal, that i admit. 18:46:05 <TrueBrain> peter1138: simple: if an UDP packet doesn't reach it destination.. well... bad luck 18:46:27 <yorick> and then it misses servers 18:46:33 <TrueBrain> blathijs: the chances of ever getting the full list of the list is big, is almost 0 :) 18:46:34 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N754P009.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:46:36 <TrueBrain> yorick: so? 18:46:39 <TrueBrain> would you miss them? 18:46:46 <yorick> more "can't find server!" bug reports? 18:46:52 <TrueBrain> see, if you want to look for a certain server, the chances are high you know where the server is 18:46:59 <TrueBrain> take for example Half-Life 18:47:02 <TrueBrain> hit the masterserver list 18:47:21 <TrueBrain> chances are you get like 80% of the list (true, HL does have some clever sub-systems in place, but still, not all servers are retrieved) 18:47:22 <yorick> http get has been suggested aswell 18:47:25 <TrueBrain> do you ever miss them? 18:47:37 <yorick> there are more clients there 18:47:38 <TrueBrain> http == TCP == bad for masterserver 18:47:47 <TrueBrain> run an UDP test 18:47:55 <yorick> and not for webservers .... 18:47:55 <TrueBrain> send out like 1000 UDP packets, 2 every second 18:47:59 <TrueBrain> see how many are received 18:48:07 <TrueBrain> I estimate it around 98% 18:48:44 <yorick> I wonder if the whole masterserver thing is actually good 18:48:52 <TrueBrain> in general, yes 18:49:03 <yorick> everything dependent on one server, if it goes down...boom...forever...death! 18:49:11 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Is TCP for a masterserver really that bad? There are HTTP servers that do millions of hits per day as well, right? 18:49:17 <TrueBrain> for that we have DNS 18:49:24 <peter1138> master server in dns! 18:49:29 <hylje> ! 18:49:35 <TrueBrain> blathijs: well, yes, it is bad :) Give me any game that uses TCP as masterserver :) 18:49:48 <peter1138> A record showing the IP, or AAAA 18:49:55 <peter1138> TXT should version... and everything else ;) 18:49:58 <hylje> AAAAAAAAA!-record 18:50:04 <TrueBrain> blathijs: HTTP servers are slow, in general; but as you want to make sure you get the page you want, you need TCP 18:50:05 <peter1138> GRF IDs would fit into A records! 18:50:12 <TrueBrain> for a masterserver it is different 18:50:20 <peter1138> grfs.server.servers.openttd.org A ... 18:50:21 <yorick> peer-to-peer server list networking...*crazy ideas here* 18:50:22 <TrueBrain> the idea is that you don't always want everything, you just want to see servers 18:50:27 <peter1138> GOD THAT IS SIC 18:50:28 <TrueBrain> there is no need for 100% data transfer 18:50:30 <TrueBrain> it can get lost 18:50:54 <yorick> more "can't find server!" bug reports? 18:50:58 *** josch [~josch@p57AD7B7C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:51:08 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Yeah, I know that UDP would be sufficient. Then again, it doesn't hurt to actually get the full list :-) 18:51:16 <TrueBrain> blathijs: but there is no need :) 18:51:27 <TrueBrain> and I am very sure that if the masterserver would be TCP, it would be more unreachable, than reachable 18:51:30 <yorick> I'm not going to quote again 18:51:39 * peter1138 wonders how much bandwidth the master server uses... 18:51:48 *** Frostregen_ [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-127-153.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 18:52:00 <TrueBrain> that I can estimate for you 18:52:11 <TrueBrain> it is near to nothing 18:52:22 <blathijs> yorick: I think that adding some sequence numbering to the packets, and re-requesting the list a few times if you miss packages, makes the average coverage (number of servers actually received) quite high 18:52:23 <yorick> what if you retrieve the server list from one known server, and after you have the server list, store it 18:52:27 <TrueBrain> 1.3 kbit/sec on average :p 18:52:58 <fjb> You only would have to rerequest the missing part of the list. 18:53:04 <TrueBrain> fjb: not really possible 18:53:10 <TrueBrain> blathijs: then you can also just use IP fragmentation 18:53:14 <TrueBrain> allows you up to, what.. 17k? 18:53:17 <TrueBrain> something like that 18:53:37 <fjb> TrueBrain: Because the list may have changed? 18:53:43 <yorick> true 18:53:53 <TrueBrain> ah, 8k packet size with IP fragmentation 18:54:10 <TrueBrain> fjb: no, it would mean more complexity on the masterserver, being able to understand such requests 18:54:17 <TrueBrain> basicly then you are recreating socket-less TCP 18:54:38 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N727P029.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 18:54:50 <yorick> isn't that a good thing in this case? 18:54:51 <TrueBrain> to summarize what I try to tell you guys: don't worry about the posibility of packet-loss 18:54:58 <TrueBrain> if it ever happens, well.. people just hit refresh 18:55:00 <TrueBrain> shit happens 18:55:02 <TrueBrain> don't worry about it 18:55:07 <fjb> Something like dns uses. 18:55:40 <TrueBrain> yorick: the memory footprint increases, in the best optimized implementation of what ever TCP method you use 18:55:48 <TrueBrain> which means I can bring down the masterserver with ease 18:55:56 *** mikl [~mikl@0304ds2-ba.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:56:02 <TrueBrain> now the system is simple: signal in, process, signal out, forget 18:56:03 <yorick> like you can't do that now :) 18:56:12 <yorick> and then especcially you 18:56:20 <blathijs> TrueBrain: IP fragmentation will result in no list at all if anything is lost, so you'll have to retry until all packets get through once 18:56:22 <fjb> Do UDP packets really get lost that much? 18:56:22 <TrueBrain> then you get: signal in, process, signal out, remember, handle errors, remember, wait, wait more, handle errors, try to forget ;) 18:56:33 <TrueBrain> blathijs: basicly the same, not? :) 18:56:38 <TrueBrain> fjb: on normal networks, no 18:56:45 <TrueBrain> fjb: on long distances + poor modems, might happen 18:56:46 <peter1138> fjb: only for users with shitty adsl routers... 18:56:53 <blathijs> TrueBrain: I was proposing merging all packets you receive 18:57:06 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Ie, if you miss one packet, you'll have a nearly complete list 18:57:07 <TrueBrain> blathijs: so again, TCP over UDP ;) 18:57:09 <yorick> which might not be a good thing 18:57:19 <fjb> So just stick with the list split into a number of UDP packets and let the users refresh if they are missing a server. 18:57:28 <TrueBrain> okay, reality check: how much servers do you expect to be in OpenTTD in say, 2 years? 18:57:31 *** Frostregen [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-096-158.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:57:46 <peter1138> Don't forget IPv6 ;) 18:57:47 <blathijs> Then, if you re-request the entire list, the chance is very small that you will again miss the same packets, so chances are big you get a (nearly) complete list after 2 or 3 tries 18:57:48 <TrueBrain> @openttd servers 18:57:48 <yorick> double of it as it is now 18:57:49 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Servers online: 141; Running version 0.5.3 (latest): 65; Clients online: 126 18:57:58 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen 18:58:06 <blathijs> TrueBrain: So, it's not TCP, since there is no extra server overhead or state tracking 18:58:07 <yorick> hmm...0.6.0-beta5(latest) 18:58:13 <TrueBrain> blathijs: then a smarter way: refresh the list every 5 minutes 18:58:17 <TrueBrain> and fill in any missing IPs 18:58:22 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 18:58:23 <TrueBrain> blathijs: you are correct 18:58:31 <TrueBrain> okay, 300 servers in 2 years 18:58:37 <TrueBrain> how much size would that consume? 18:58:37 <blathijs> TrueBrain: It's simply introducing some redundancy in your connection, which doubles or triples the bandwith cost (which shouldn't be so bad) 18:58:42 <TrueBrain> 4500 bytes? 18:58:43 <yorick> too much for current 18:58:54 <TrueBrain> so, 3 UDP packets? 18:59:00 <TrueBrain> really, don't worry about packet-loss there :p 18:59:05 <peter1138> Hmm, how many bytes is each server? 18:59:19 <TrueBrain> peter1138: IP + port 18:59:25 <TrueBrain> so now like 4 + 1 18:59:40 <TrueBrain> IPv6 like 16 + 1 18:59:42 <yorick> no md5? 18:59:48 <TrueBrain> md5? 18:59:53 <peter1138> Er 18:59:53 <yorick> grf's 18:59:55 <peter1138> port is 2 bytes 19:00:00 <TrueBrain> that is server <-> client 19:00:03 <TrueBrain> peter1138: you are right :) 19:00:16 <peter1138> So 300 servers is 1800 bytes 19:00:23 <TrueBrain> the masterlist only gives the client a big list of IPs and ports (last time I checked ;)) 19:00:35 <yorick> oh 19:01:02 <TrueBrain> but, I can't be 100% sure about that :p 19:01:08 *** ob0t_ [andyf@dangermouse.pod4.org] has joined #openttd 19:01:21 <TrueBrain> peter1138: yeah, I don't think the masterserver <-> clients is overflowing currently 19:01:24 <TrueBrain> I can check if you like... 19:01:50 <yorick> @calc 141 * 5 19:01:50 <peter1138> Not currently, no. 19:01:50 <DorpsGek> yorick: 705 19:01:57 <yorick> its at half? 19:02:01 <peter1138> @calc 141*6 19:02:01 <DorpsGek> peter1138: 846 19:02:02 <TrueBrain> peter1138: will it ever? :) 19:02:12 <peter1138> Probably not with IPv4. 19:02:17 <peter1138> So, er, why does it need changing? 19:02:21 <TrueBrain> I don't know 19:02:27 <peter1138> OK :D 19:02:29 <TrueBrain> yorick is asking around :) 19:02:32 <yorick> :) 19:02:38 *** josch [~josch@p57AD75E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:02:43 <yorick> I managed to read that it ever will 19:03:10 <TrueBrain> this->serverlist_packet->Send_uint32(servers[i].ip); 19:03:10 <TrueBrain> this->serverlist_packet->Send_uint16(servers[i].port); 19:03:18 <yorick> 32 :o 19:03:27 <TrueBrain> also, 1 byte for version indication 19:03:34 <TrueBrain> and 2 bytes for server-list-count 19:03:45 <TrueBrain> yorick: sure, it will, maybe, overflow some day 19:03:49 <TrueBrain> lets hope it does! 19:04:16 <TrueBrain> anyway, please put it in your ears for once and for all: MasterServer and GameQuery should be UDP, not TCP 19:04:20 <yorick> @calc ((1500-3)-(141*6))/6 19:04:21 <DorpsGek> yorick: 108.5 19:04:22 <TrueBrain> TCP consumes way too much resources 19:04:31 <TrueBrain> what blathijs suggests is a good idea to implement 19:04:34 <TrueBrain> but in my opinion far from needed 19:05:00 <Belugas> I drink to that! 19:05:06 <Belugas> coffee, of course... 19:05:12 <TrueBrain> hi Belugas :) 19:05:14 <Belugas> Hello TrueBrain 19:05:17 <Belugas> :D 19:05:24 *** Phantasm^ [ghost@hack.fi] has joined #openttd 19:05:31 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:05:35 <TrueBrain> blathijs: btw, bandwidth isn't an issue here :) Really none at all :p 19:05:37 <Belugas> glad to see you having a strong conversation in here :D 19:05:48 *** hylej [hylje@c214.myrootshell.com] has joined #openttd 19:05:49 <TrueBrain> well, I got sick of the same question by different people over and over :p 19:05:51 *** Netsplit cation.oftc.net <-> magnet.oftc.net quits: Greysc[a]le, ob0t, welterde, Phantasm, hylje 19:05:51 *** hylje_ is now known as hylje 19:06:01 <yorick> With a two-byte size field, the theoretical maximum size is 65535 bytes. However, some implementations of UDP restrict the datagram to a smaller number -- sometimes as low as 8192 bytes. 19:06:21 *** Netsplit over, joins: welterde 19:06:23 <TrueBrain> yorick: UDP max size, including IP fragmentation, is 8k on all sane systems 19:06:35 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A473D5.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 19:06:49 *** mikl [~mikl@0304ds2-ba.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 19:07:01 <TrueBrain> http://solipsis.netofpeers.net/wiki2/index.php/UDP_Fragmentation <- this page explains most of it 19:07:06 *** Nitro [~lol@ti541110a340-3020.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 19:07:08 <yorick> :) 19:07:17 *** Dominik [~Dominik@dslb-084-063-061-056.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 19:07:37 <TrueBrain> yorick: but what is this obsession with making the world more complicated? 19:07:47 <fjb> Ammler: Indiana started his server without road vehicle grf... 19:07:58 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Yeah, that's why it isn't an issue that my approach triples bandwidth :-) 19:08:28 <yorick> everything has to be that way ^^ 19:08:38 <TrueBrain> blathijs: indeed :) An other (common) approach is that the MS sends out the result 2 or 3 times, with a bit of delay 19:09:06 <blathijs> TrueBrain: That's essentially the same thing I guess 19:09:31 <yorick> (waarom makkelijk doen als het ook moeilijk kan :)) An other (common) approach is that the MS sends out the result 2 or 3 times, with a bit of delay <-- double the traffic, could fail aswell 19:09:36 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Moves a bit of the complexity from the client to the server, but makes the entire thing less complex I thing 19:10:05 <blathijs> yorick: I think that the possibility of failure really isn't a problem, as long is the chances are small 19:10:14 <TrueBrain> yorick: it can always fail... I can send you 1000 UDP packets, and they can all get lost... 19:10:27 <yorick> you must be lucky that way 19:10:37 <TrueBrain> I call it a firewall 19:11:04 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-176-112.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:11:32 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:11:36 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 19:11:48 <TrueBrain> one thing btw about IPv6: a given prefix indicates that an IP is in fact IPv4.. so if you switch to IPv6, the MS only needs to send IPv6 for all IPs, and the client can understand when it is inf act a IPv4 19:12:01 *** nycerine [~lol@ti541110a340-2776.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:12:05 <TrueBrain> (that prefix is pre-set by IPv6) 19:12:19 <TrueBrain> @calc (1500-10)/18 19:12:20 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 82.7777777778 19:12:31 <TrueBrain> so then only 82 servers can go in MS, so then there would be need for something blathijs suggests 19:12:47 <yorick> who was that ipv6 patchdevel? 19:12:48 <TrueBrain> a more simpler approach for OpenTTD would be: 19:12:54 <TrueBrain> send 1 packet with IPv4 servers 19:12:57 <TrueBrain> and 1 packet with IPv6 servers 19:13:07 <TrueBrain> problem solved, complexity almost 0 19:13:31 <TrueBrain> (by the time IPv6 has 82+ servers, the network protocol is (hopefully) rewritten anyway :p) 19:13:38 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 19:13:55 <TrueBrain> yorick: I guess SpComb 19:14:19 <yorick> lets go making him aware ^^ 19:15:27 <yorick> hmm...where is that masterserver-updater 19:15:40 <TrueBrain> in /something 19:15:44 <TrueBrain> not trunk, branch or tags 19:15:51 <yorick> I know that 19:16:11 <TrueBrain> anyway, enough answers? :) 19:16:25 <yorick> sure 19:16:42 <TrueBrain> k :) Then thank you blathijs for a good and solid solution, and good night to you all :) 19:16:44 <yorick> svn/branches/masterserver_updater 19:16:46 <yorick> night 19:16:57 *** TrueBrain [truelight@openttd.org] has left #openttd [So long and tnx for all the fish] 19:18:20 <blathijs> Hmm, that was quick :-) 19:19:58 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:23:21 *** YOYO [~admin@ip51cc9a76.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 19:23:27 <YOYO> hello 19:23:57 <yorick> .,, 19:24:53 <YOYO> im trying to get a openttd server up (again) now it says its broadcasting but it doenst show up in the list.... yes ports are forwarded. Also the advertisingthing in console seems to be stalling. can any one verify that the server is up or give support? 19:25:30 <yorick> what IP? 19:26:06 <YOYO> 81.204.154.118:3979 19:26:32 *** elmex [~elmex@e180064010.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 19:26:52 *** jez9999 [lefrancais@87-194-212-214.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:27:07 <yorick> can't reach 19:27:15 <YOYO> strange 19:27:23 <jez9999> Rubidium around lately? 19:27:44 <YOYO> cause by watching wire shark it seems its recieving its call from the master server 19:30:11 <yorick> today is a very masterserver-y day 19:30:15 *** YOYO2 [~admin@ip51cc9a76.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 19:30:22 <YOYO2> crappy shit 19:30:35 <YOYO2> anyways its annoying 19:30:52 <yorick> you don't seem to have a steady internet connection... 19:31:13 <YOYO2> ever since the first PC nwith Vista entered it became less stabel 19:31:46 <YOYO2> for some reason my inet modem likes to reset its self eversince 19:33:10 <yorick> servers like running on a steady internet connection 19:33:35 <YOYO2> they dont care ;) but no one can connect to them if it fails 19:35:57 *** YOYO [~admin@ip51cc9a76.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:40:27 *** YOYO [~admin@ip51cc9a76.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 19:40:42 <YOYO> And the worst shit its getting more and more 19:40:53 *** elmex [~elmex@e180064010.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:42:13 *** elmex [~elmex@e180064010.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 19:42:43 *** NukeBuster [~wouter@a62-251-21-79.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 19:43:19 *** Slowpoke_ [~Lobster@dslb-088-073-230-090.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 19:44:48 *** NukeBuster [~wouter@a62-251-21-79.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 19:45:03 <blathijs> YOYO: I've been having problems with an ADSL modem some time ago, turned out one of the PC's in the network was spyware infested (which attempted to open a couple thousand TCP connections, flooding the modem's NAT buffers...) 19:45:15 <blathijs> YOYO: Perhaps you're having something similar? 19:45:31 <blathijs> Though I required a manual modem reset to get any connection again 19:45:54 <YOYO> blathijs hmmm yeah but how to find that bastard? 19:46:11 <YOYO> asume that this one isnt the infested one as it runs linux full updated 19:46:30 <YOYO> and my PC vista PC is the one who comes second of it 19:46:32 <blathijs> YOYO: Powering every machine down? :-) 19:46:47 <YOYO> couldnt it be my modem is gettin gto old 19:46:52 <blathijs> And then booting them one at a time to see where the problem is 19:47:10 <blathijs> YOYO: It could be simple hardware failure, I guess 19:47:14 <YOYO> thats the problem it can be good for hours and then shutdown 19:47:22 *** YOYO2 [~admin@ip51cc9a76.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:47:47 <blathijs> YOYO: You should see if there is any pattern there (such as starting to fail when some computer is started, or some program perhaps) 19:48:17 *** YOYO [~admin@ip51cc9a76.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:48:32 *** YOYO [~admin@ip51cc9a76.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 19:48:39 <YOYO> but its annoying 19:50:38 *** Slowpoke [~Lobster@dslb-088-073-237-206.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:50:43 <YOYO> well wireshark is telling much 19:50:46 <YOYO> a lot of traffic 19:51:27 <yorick> doesn't wireshark cause the failures? 19:51:46 <blathijs> Dumping the traffic before it goes into your modem would be useful, but that requires some nifty hardware I guess 19:52:02 <YOYO> no wireshark intercepts packages 19:52:59 <blathijs> Only if they end up in your machine, so you're probably not getting all the packets 19:53:17 <blathijs> Hmm, about that nifty hardware part -- A hub would probably do the trick just fine :-) 19:54:19 <YOYO> wel placed an ols router as a hub btween PC and ROuter/modem but didnyt help 19:57:40 <blathijs> If it's a somewhat standard ADSL modem, you might try borrowing one from your neighbours are something, to see if that solves the probem 19:58:38 <YOYO> the bestway is to borrow a hub to see if its beter 19:58:46 <YOYO> after that a othe rmodem 20:13:07 <SpComb> reimplementin TCP on top of UDP is something that you want to avoid, but doing our own fragmentation+retry is pretty far from what TCP does 20:13:23 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 20:13:23 <SpComb> it would be pretty close to stateless on the server side 20:14:13 <SpComb> http://gitweb.marttila.de/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=openttd-ipv6-masterserver.git;a=summary 20:15:08 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 20:15:21 *** YOYO2 [~admin@ip51cc9a76.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 20:15:53 *** Leviath [~thomas@z037133.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #openttd 20:21:38 *** YOYO [~admin@ip51cc9a76.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:21:53 <peter1138> Except if the data changes between requests... 20:22:41 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:23:30 <blathijs> peter1138: That doesn't really matter, as long as you simply merge all the data you get 20:23:39 <peter1138> true 20:23:55 <blathijs> peter1138: You might have a server in the list that is no longer valid, but it was valid a few ms ago, so that's not really a problem 20:24:24 <peter1138> or you might miss some 20:24:33 <peter1138> but then you can do that also 20:24:39 <peter1138> er, anyway 20:25:28 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:26:10 <SpComb> peter1138: indeed, that's the issue I was wondering about 20:26:52 <blathijs> missing some is not really a problem either 20:27:01 <blathijs> As long as you will get most of the list most of the time :-) 20:27:29 <SpComb> best effort, but no 110% garuntee 20:28:16 <SpComb> and yes TCP isn't entirely impossible, and web servers are capable of handling large amounts of traffic 20:28:44 <SpComb> but it would be preferrable to keep the OpenTTD MS on UDP 20:29:09 <blathijs> yeah, stateless is a good idea I guess 20:30:00 <SpComb> imo the client's ms query code could grow a bit thicker, but it would be good to keep the ms's code as thin as possible 20:32:07 *** dragonhorseboy [~dragonhor@modemcable147.26-58-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 20:33:09 <dragonhorseboy> anyone here from that 'czech game' server? 20:33:16 <dragonhorseboy> (just a long shoot heh) 20:33:18 <SpComb> and the IPv4-translated addresses are transparent to the client, it wouldn't need to handle them 20:34:22 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A473D5.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 20:35:38 *** nzvip [~svip@AToulon-151-1-98-88.w86-200.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:39:55 *** yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Organize your IRC] 20:39:56 <blathijs> SpComb: Unless the client's OS doesn't support IPv6 20:40:12 <peter1138> :o 20:40:18 <peter1138> like OS2 :D 20:40:22 <peter1138> I imagine 20:40:24 <peter1138> maybe it does... 20:40:55 <SpComb> oh great, so we need to write our own TCP/IP stack for OpenTTD? 20:41:10 <peter1138> No, just some ifdefs... 20:41:16 <SpComb> :P 20:41:20 <dragonhorseboy> spcomb...yeah I would think so anyhow 20:41:53 <dragonhorseboy> I know some browsers & online softwares that are good but barely just get enough patch fixes to keep up at times save less ipv6/etc 20:41:58 <dragonhorseboy> to our own 20:42:11 *** nzvip [~svip@AToulon-151-1-98-88.w86-200.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 20:42:32 <SpComb> but cross-platformitiy is something that my IPv6 code is midding 20:43:02 <SpComb> the basic stuff works on win32, but even that needs cleanup, talk about the server code 20:44:02 * blathijs has had some trouble with non-IPv6 platforms on an embedded platform 20:44:15 <blathijs> uclibc can have ipv6 switched off, for example 20:44:24 *** antihcl [~antivert@86.99.72.209] has joined #openttd 20:44:34 <antihcl> openttd, woo! 20:44:42 <Prof_Frink> Quite. 20:44:59 <SpComb> rather 20:45:48 <antihcl> it's really gotten quite good.. TTD is one of my favorite games ever and openttd makes it painless and more fun :D 20:46:33 <dragonhorseboy> antihcl...the only one reason I'm still bothering with openttd yet is due to lack of finding any vnc owners (although I might not even be able to run openttd anymore when summer comes around due to change of things/computers tho) 20:46:40 <dragonhorseboy> so meh... ^-^ 20:47:01 *** Greysc[a]le [bnc@81.171.136.146] has joined #openttd 20:48:55 *** dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5499C118.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:51:28 <dragonhorseboy> antichl one curious question tho - do you run with grfs? :p 20:53:35 <YOYO2> wireshark tells me that it cant reach this adress associated to openttd: 81.171.98.111 what is this adress? 20:53:46 <glx> master server 20:54:09 <YOYO2> hmm that explains why the server doenst show up there 20:54:23 <antihcl> dragonhorseboy: yeah, I use the UK renewal set 20:55:10 <antihcl> dragonhorseboy: and.. vnc? 20:55:17 <dragonhorseboy> antihcl heh ^-^ 20:55:56 <dragonhorseboy> vnc = ttdp-to-ttdp even if the real connection distance is more than 1km far away [well you get the idea heh] 20:56:14 <dragonhorseboy> I've had this idea for some time and even tried it once myself here but...to find anyone else -- not much luck yet :p 20:56:17 *** helb [~helb@62.240.176.23] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:56:41 <dragonhorseboy> either way re grfs..I have quite several that I like 20:57:00 *** helb [~helb@62.240.176.23] has joined #openttd 20:57:24 <dragonhorseboy> dbsetxl (I of course am curious to a possible 0.9 set but then am just dangly fine with 0.82 either way) .. NARS (set to arctic-only) ... newships ... etc etc 20:57:26 * dragonhorseboy hehs 21:00:35 <dragonhorseboy> antihcl where you from? canada here 21:01:18 <jez9999> he 21:01:22 <jez9999> hey 21:01:33 <jez9999> Does Rubidium tend to talk in here? 21:02:18 <glx> when he's awake yes 21:02:33 <YOYO2> why is the host not reachebel??? 21:02:43 <YOYO2> firewall,router settings? 21:02:46 <YOYO2> cant be 21:03:04 <jez9999> hmm 21:03:17 <jez9999> ok in that case... how do i get a list of available engines for a given track type? 21:03:46 <blathijs> YOYO2: What does a simple ping from your machine do? Or a traceroute? 21:04:03 <antihcl> dragonhorseboy: California, but I live in Dubai 21:05:08 <YOYO2> blathijs its returning 21:05:12 <YOYO2> succesfull 21:05:40 <YOYO2> on this linux machine and the vista machine both see him 21:05:43 *** dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5499C118.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: dR3x4cK] 21:06:09 <glx> jez9999: use FOR_ALL_ENGINES and test the track type 21:06:11 <blathijs> but wireshark says it's unreachable? How does wireshark tell you that exactly? 21:06:30 <blathijs> YOYO2: Do you see a host unreachable packet somewhere in the dump or something? 21:06:40 <YOYO2> Destination unreachebel (Port unreachebel) 21:06:58 <YOYO2> (bloody bad english btw :) 21:08:59 <jez9999> glx: k 21:09:32 <blathijs> YOYO2: That's a packet you receive from 81.171.98.111 then? 21:09:45 <blathijs> YOYO2: Does it say which port is unreachable? :-) 21:09:47 <YOYO2> no from the intern to oudside 21:10:52 <YOYO2> from 81.xx.xx.xx to inter its considering port 32772, 3979 from me to 81.Xx.XX.XX no port info known 21:13:09 *** YOYO [~admin@ip51cc9a76.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 21:13:09 *** YOYO2 [~admin@ip51cc9a76.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:13:30 <YOYO> first thing to do tomorrow mail the ISP with this annoying resetting 21:13:51 <dragonhorseboy> ^-^ 21:14:51 <YOYO> stupid..... ahhh nvm :) 21:17:41 <blathijs> hm? 21:18:13 <Sacro> hellooooooooooooo blathijs 21:18:29 <blathijs> hey Sacro 21:18:44 <dragonhorseboy> :p 21:19:32 <Sacro> blathijs: PBS needs to go into trunk 21:21:20 <Gonozal_VIII> yay pbs 21:25:15 <peter1138> Yes, then we rip it out again ;D 21:25:54 <Gonozal_VIII> bad peter! 21:26:10 <peter1138> Like last time! 21:26:12 * Gonozal_VIII slaps peter around a bit with a large pbs signal 21:26:28 <peter1138> Although this time it works better, so... 21:27:51 <Gonozal_VIII> as far as i know, pbs is the most wanted missing feature right now 21:28:21 <Gonozal_VIII> well.. missing feature with existing patch 21:28:32 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F54812.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:28:52 *** Gekz [~brendan@CPE-121-218-187-254.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:58 * YOYO thinks his old speedtouch 510 modem router is starting to give way 21:29:20 <YOYO> smells like hot electronics cant be good :) 21:29:32 <dragonhorseboy> heh 21:29:33 <blathijs> Well, your internet is still working... :-) 21:29:48 <YOYO> dont mention that part :P 21:30:51 <dragonhorseboy> :p 21:32:48 <YOYO> he is verry sensitive for the sentence im still working ;) 21:41:26 *** Dark_Link^ [~glidegame@fw.dormnet.his.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:44:22 *** Slowpoke_ [~Lobster@dslb-088-073-230-090.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:47:53 *** dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5499C118.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:49:38 *** thgergo [~Administr@dsl51B65D8A.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:49:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r12377 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1854]: set cached value for vehicle property 25 before other cached values 21:52:56 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host147-239-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:53:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r12378 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix: refresh vehicle details window when cached values are updated 21:56:19 *** Osai^Kendo is now known as Osai 21:56:28 *** dragonhorseboy [~dragonhor@modemcable147.26-58-74.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [] 22:09:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r12379 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: removed now redondant InvalidateWindow() calls 22:12:56 *** dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5499C118.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: dR3x4cK] 22:13:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r12380 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix: update train acceleration and max speed after setting cached value to ensure the correct max speed is used with disabled real acceleration 22:23:08 *** LIIT [~kdk@130.226.232.146] has joined #openttd 22:23:38 <LIIT> evening all :-) 22:25:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> <Ammler> the biggest problem we have that some cargo don't make profit like sand <--- err, did you by any chance add industry/cargo grfs after the scenario was created? 22:32:38 <jez9999> i'm not able to understand RailTypeByte 22:32:51 <jez9999> how am i supposed to check what type of rail something is when im testing RailTypeByte? 22:33:04 <jez9999> its type is some weird custom struct 22:33:08 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:34:01 <peter1138> if (foo == bar) usually... 22:35:22 *** mikl [~mikl@0304ds2-ba.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by Peer Gynt] 22:35:57 <glx> RailTypeByte is just a wrapper aroud RailType 22:36:05 <glx> to force it's size 22:37:37 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz 22:37:43 <ln> wtf was the context where the big brother competitor said what she said? 22:37:51 *** Maedhros [~jc@host81-157-37-130.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:38:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> why would anyone care? 22:40:11 <ln> because it's on the tabloid news papers 22:40:23 <ln> like all the pointless stuff. 22:43:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> why would anyone care? 22:44:05 <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause2: Because people are stupid. 22:44:09 <ln> panem et circenses. 22:44:10 <Gonozal_VIII> wtf big brother is still running 22:44:15 *** UserError [~User@c-98-202-77-105.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 22:44:43 <Gonozal_VIII> didn't that crap end some years ago? 22:45:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> they obviously didn't have worse crap to broadcast 22:46:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> err:dsound:DSOUND_MixOne Fatal error. Under/Overflow? primary_done=64032, mixpos=18144/147456 (18144/147456), primary_mixpos=10784, writepos=12288, mixlen=12480 <<--- anyone think they might be slightly exaggerating? 22:48:31 *** UserErr0r [~User@c-98-202-77-105.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:50:11 <peter1138> Huh? 22:51:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, if i have sound, and it is playing fine, the error can't be that "fatal" 22:52:58 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:54:49 <Sacro> openttd should be doing GSOC :( 22:56:57 *** Ammller [~Ammler@adsl-89-217-151-146.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 22:58:25 <Ammller> Eddi|zuHause2: thanks for that hint 22:58:35 <Ammller> I need to ask Osai... 22:58:43 *** YOYO [~admin@ip51cc9a76.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:59:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> Ammller: the wwottdgd people did some hackery with replacing the cargo payment rates chunk in the (uncompressed) savegame 22:59:48 <Ammller> yeah, that was Phazorx 23:00:00 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C277.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:02 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-84-227-130-110.adslplus.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:00:05 <Ammller> sadly, he never documented that 23:00:14 <Ammller> I asked him to do it, but :( 23:01:06 <Ammller> a savegame viewer/editor would be a really nice tool :-) 23:01:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> maybe it's time for a "resetcargos" command 23:05:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> # i can't get no sleep 23:06:14 *** elmex [~elmex@e180064010.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:06:33 <peter1138> Problem is inflation 23:06:33 *** anhedral is now known as dih 23:06:52 <peter1138> I suppose it can work roughly at the start. 23:07:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> i was under the impression that inflation is a factor that is multiplied on each payment, not something that changes the cargo rates 23:12:01 *** phin [~mcgee@c-68-41-156-159.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 23:12:18 <phin> so how do i go about getting upgraded graphics on openttd? 23:12:24 <phin> im sorta confused about the whole thing 23:13:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> you go to grfcrawler.tt-forums.net and search for a .grf file that you find interesting, then put that into your data directory, then click the "NewGRFs" button on the main menu 23:14:03 <Patrick`> it's a long and amusing process. 23:14:16 <phin> ah ok 23:14:19 <phin> i just wasnt sure 23:14:32 <phin> now are there any packages that just update everything? or is it just some things? 23:15:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> typically, each grf file changes one aspect of the game, i.e. one for bridges, one for trains, one (or more) for industries 23:15:39 <phin> the vector sets are very nice looking 23:15:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> and usually not just graphics, also behaviour 23:16:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> if you need more than one of each type, you have to worry about compatibility 23:16:41 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause2: you have the wrong impression then. 23:16:50 <Patrick`> probem is tht they're not just graphics updates. 23:16:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> peter1138: happens ;) 23:17:01 <phin> what about the ecs patches? 23:17:13 <phin> are they pretty good? the screen shots ive seen are pretty amazing 23:17:17 <Patrick`> there's no thing that just makes it free to redistribute if that's what you're getting at 23:17:23 <Gonozal_VIII> there are no ecs patches 23:17:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> phin: the ECS grf can be loaded together, just make sure you load them in the right order 23:17:55 <phin> where do i find the order? 23:18:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> phin: the last two numbers of the "GRF ID" 23:18:34 <phin> ok thanks, im going to give this a quick try 23:18:38 <phin> i just wasnt sure 23:18:39 <peter1138> :o 23:18:56 <phin> i couldnt find any information on any of the websites, so i figured i would venture into irc and check :) 23:19:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> and you need a train set or a road vehicle set for the new cargo types 23:19:16 <phin> http://george.zernebok.net/newgrf/downloads.html 23:19:22 <phin> can i just use what i find here? 23:20:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes 23:21:10 <fjb> phin: The beta 4 vectors are ok. You will get some trouble if you are using alpha vectors. 23:21:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> although IMHO the "Long Vehicles" are out of scale 23:21:19 <phin> ok thanks 23:21:37 <phin> are there any suggested "packages" i could just grab, that has everything in one download? 23:21:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> search for the openttdcoop grf pack 23:22:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> they have some of the most popular ones 23:22:25 <Patrick`> grfs are an exercise in frustration, but you can't stop people from doing what they want to 23:22:36 <Patrick`> it's like, great, we have 500 trains but the game's still not free to redistribute. 23:22:44 <phin> heh 23:22:55 <Patrick`> someone make some gorramn free sounds or something 23:22:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> don't listen to him ;) 23:23:05 <Patrick`> I understand that freescenery is almost done 23:23:17 <phin> http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/GRF 23:23:20 <phin> so thats what i want? 23:23:30 <Patrick`> this was something i've been whining about for ages - get it into a linux distro and you'll get so many more eyes :) 23:23:38 <Ammller> phin: if you take coop pack, the GRFs are already sorted for working usage 23:23:46 <phin> Ammller: excellant, thanks :) 23:23:52 <Ammller> just use the filesystem 23:24:06 *** antihcl [~antivert@86.99.72.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:24:06 <phin> sounds good 23:24:26 <phin> just put them in /usr/share/games/openttd/data and i should be set? 23:24:38 <Ammller> the only thing you need to do self is reading the docs 23:24:45 <phin> sounds good 23:24:47 <Ammller> some grfs needs parameter 23:24:56 *** antihcl [~antivert@86.99.72.209] has joined #openttd 23:25:05 <Ammller> yeah, that sounds good for root 23:25:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> phin: newer versions of openttd allow ~/.openttd/data 23:25:20 <phin> im using the newest beta 23:25:21 <Ammller> but user put them to ./.openttd/... 23:25:25 <phin> ok 23:25:26 <phin> cool 23:25:38 <phin> i have a couple of users on this machine, so i generally just put them in root 23:26:05 *** dih is now known as anhedral 23:26:18 *** NukeBuster [~wouter@a62-251-21-79.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:26:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, if you want to share them, the games directory seems appropriate 23:26:42 <Prof_Frink> Patrick`: http://packages.debian.org/lenny/openttd 23:26:52 *** NukeBuster [~wouter@a62-251-21-79.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 23:27:26 <Ammller> oh, a msn user sends me spam 23:28:37 * SpComb gets that every now and then 23:28:53 <Gonozal_VIII> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODshB09FQ8w 23:28:54 <Ammller> is kicking the contact only solution? 23:29:09 <SpComb> a site that says it'll show you what contacts have blocked you, and asks you for your handle/password 23:29:26 <SpComb> ...and then sells your address to spammers and spam itself to everyone on your contact list 23:29:38 <Prof_Frink> Ammller: Do you mean blocking, or going round said contact's house and actually kicking them? 23:29:43 <Gonozal_VIII> that link is spam btw 23:30:14 <Prof_Frink> Because option b) is the far more effective. And satisfying. 23:30:15 <Ammller> SpComb: myottd.net is for multiplayer only 23:31:01 <Ammller> that would make it somehow legal to use cooppack as a common source too :-) 23:31:48 <phin> ok 23:31:58 <phin> im not seeing any sort of order to load these in in the README or html page 23:32:16 <Ammller> phin: they are already sorted saved 23:32:34 *** Leviath [~thomas@z037133.its-s.tudelft.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32:37 <Ammller> check ottdc_grfpack.cfg 23:32:48 <phin> how do i get that to automaticly load? 23:32:49 <Ammller> http://www.openttdcoop.org/newgrfs/trunk/ottdc_grfpack.cfg 23:33:15 <Ammller> you can't use ALL grfs together 23:33:29 <phin> oh, ok 23:33:49 <Ammller> specially the vehicels and industries 23:34:26 <Ammller> but the directory structure is also the right order 23:35:18 <Ammller> landscape->infrstructure->industries->houses->vechicels 23:36:39 <Ammller> and its taken from GRFCrawler, btw. 23:37:46 <phin> are there any pre recommened sets to use together? 23:37:52 <phin> or is it just sort of hit or miss? 23:40:31 <SpComb> Ammller: what do you mean, legal? 23:41:58 <Ammller> well, we are allowed to distribute the GRFs because we need exact the same GRFs for every player. 23:42:37 <Ammller> and the pack shouldn't be just a download package 23:43:40 *** lolman is now known as Zebedee 23:43:48 *** Zebedee is now known as lolman 23:43:56 *** Sacro is now known as Zebedee 23:44:02 *** Zebedee is now known as Sacro 23:44:39 <Ammller> and because myottd.net is for the same thing, it would be helpful with grfs already there 23:50:49 <SpComb> Ammller: somehow I feel like I missed some context somewhere, I don't really understand what you're talking about 23:51:08 <Ammller> well, not really important 23:51:36 <Ammller> just thought about that, as I tested your server again 23:52:02 *** NukeBuster [~wouter@a62-251-21-79.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 23:53:58 *** larsemil [~larsemil@77-173-96-87.cust.blixtvik.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:54:34 *** Brianetta [~brian@77-103-231-158.cable.ubr05.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 23:54:51 <SpComb> I guess what you mean to say is that the cooppack should be installed on MyOTTD as common newgrfs? 23:55:22 <Ammller> hmm, yeah, somehow :-) 23:58:46 <jez9999> how can I get the group ID of the group that a given Vehicle is in? 23:59:12 <SmatZ> v->group_id maybe?