Log for #openttd on 23rd March 2008:
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00:00:58  *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
00:02:55  <Zuu> Eddi|zuHause4: Nothing realy wrong. I like how explicit the language is.
00:03:22  <Eddi|zuHause4> i still have no idea what you are referring to...
00:04:48  <Zuu> I was refering to that if you have an if-then-else statement the true-block do not have an ending ;, but the false block should have a ;.
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00:07:11  <Zuu> One thing it lacks though in explicitnes is that you don't have do declare that a method throws exceptions as you must in Java. Which is a good thing.
00:10:05  <Eddi|zuHause4> you got that wrong... ; separates statements, but if-then-else is one single statement, so it does not have ; inbetween, only at the end
00:11:33  <Eddi|zuHause4> the ; does not belong to the statement itself
00:11:49  <Eddi|zuHause4> it is a separator for sequences of statements
00:12:02  <Eddi|zuHause4> which is why you can leave out the ; before "end"
00:12:50  <Eddi|zuHause4> "end" is not a statement, so it does not need to be separated from the previous statement
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00:16:46  <Zuu> Okay, yea kind of what my mental idea was, but I would not have expressed it that clear. Thanks :)
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00:25:55  <nicfer> one question... the town growth in temperate is determined by the amount of passengers transported or by the amount of active stations?
00:26:28  <Eddi|zuHause4> yes
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00:35:23  <nicfer> yes?
00:35:30  <nicfer> yes to what?
00:36:05  <Eddi|zuHause4> ;)
00:36:16  <Eddi|zuHause4> the second, actually ;)
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00:38:26  <nicfer> hmmm okay... would be more fun for making cities grow if it was the first way
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00:38:53  <Eddi|zuHause4> feel free to provide a patch ;)
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00:41:18  <nicfer> and also while most big is the city, it should require other cargos, example at 500 mail and at 1000 goods
00:53:17  <nicfer> something like in the spinoff
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02:47:24  <Digitalfox> OMFG 0.6 Branch =0
02:48:17  <Digitalfox> I go to the disco to celebrate my 2 years of relationship with my girlfriend and find the 0.6 branch.. Nice Work guys =0
02:48:34  <Digitalfox> I have to go more times to the disco lol
02:50:41  <DaleStan> Maybe then we'll get more 0.6 branches?
02:50:57  <a1270> Discos still exist? I thought for sure they were banned.
02:52:02  <Digitalfox> well in portugal we call it "discoteca" so i thought the translation would be disco..
02:52:16  <Digitalfox> maybe i'm wrong
02:54:03  <Digitalfox> I guess Nightclub is a better translation =0
02:54:11  <a1270> ah
02:55:24  <Digitalfox> The strange thing is that i have 24 and on over 1000 folks i think i was the older one :\
03:03:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> it gets worse ;)
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03:23:16  <Sacro> Digitalfox: Discoteque i think
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03:23:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> surely not with 'th'?
03:24:07  <Sacro> theque?
03:24:22  <Sacro> DiscothÚque :p
03:25:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, it's spoken the same way in german
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03:27:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> like the nordic god of thunder (Thor) is spoken the same as the football goal (Tor)
03:29:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> you know what's worse than people who quote the entire post to just say "thanks"?
03:30:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> people who make that a double-post :p
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05:38:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> haha, it's completely white outside ;)
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06:56:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12397 /trunk/src/timetable_gui.cpp: -Codechange [FS#1856]: enumify widget number for time tables. Patch by Phil Sophus.
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07:34:25  <Wolf01> hello
07:35:40  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12398 /trunk/ (8 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange [FS#1770]: Move toolbar related code to it's own little neighbourhood. Based on a patch by Dominik.
07:35:55  <peter1138> Hee
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07:40:59  <Wolf01> OMG O_O
07:44:19  <mrfrenzy> hi wolf01
07:44:33  <mrfrenzy> If you like it I suggest you do some encouraging in the thread
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07:45:20  * Rubidium gives it a 10% chance to succeed (and that's probably even too optimistic)
07:46:14  <Wolf01> that guy is a legend... if only he can finish all his good patches
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07:52:12  <peter1138> Hmm, proper snow :o
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07:52:33  <yorick> hello
07:55:16  <Wolf01> hi
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08:16:49  <jez9999> @seen Bjarni
08:16:50  <DorpsGek> jez9999: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 4 days, 11 hours, 28 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <Bjarni> lol
08:16:55  <yorick> hello
08:16:58  <yorick> oh noes
08:25:22  <jez9999> hmm
08:25:33  <jez9999> what is the purpose of INVALID_STRING_ID?
08:25:42  <yorick> being invalid
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08:26:18  <jez9999> seems like it gets passed to things like ShowErrorMessage
08:26:23  <yorick> all these things have an INVALID type, so they added one to STRING_ID aswell
08:27:45  <jez9999> i cant seem to find a string in english.txt that matches up with it
08:27:48  <jez9999> so im wondering what it prints out
08:27:56  <yorick> nothing
08:30:51  <yorick> or maybe it asserts
08:33:10  <jez9999> hmm
08:33:14  <jez9999> does seem to just cause a blank error
08:33:16  <jez9999> curious
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10:29:27  <yorick> !seen LordAzamath
10:29:33  <yorick> @seen LordAzamath
10:29:33  <DorpsGek> yorick: LordAzamath was last seen in #openttd 5 days, 22 hours, 6 minutes, and 17 seconds ago: <LordAzamath> (::)::(::)
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10:38:11  <jez9999> hi
10:38:24  <jez9999> i need to create a dynamic array for an OpenTTD patch i'm developing
10:38:34  <jez9999> i'm going do be, during a loop, adding certain entries to it
10:38:53  <jez9999> i'm not going to be able to know how many entries there will be, so i need to be able to keep adding to it dynamically
10:39:00  <yorick> oh
10:39:02  <jez9999> what's the standard way of doing this in Openttd?
10:39:18  <jez9999> do we have some dynamic array class we use in C++?  is there some example dynamic array code you can point me to?
10:39:20  <yorick> using a c++ way
10:39:23  <Maedhros> std::list, probably
10:39:35  <jez9999> is that typically used in the openttd codebase?
10:39:42  <jez9999> im wanting to stick to the openttd coding style
10:40:04  <Tefad>
10:40:23  <Maedhros> it's used in a few places, yes
10:40:33  <Maedhros> but then so is malloc / realloc
10:41:55  <jez9999> Tefad: hmm interesting
10:42:04  <jez9999> i come out with vector or deque, for that
10:42:41  <jez9999> i guess it might be easier to get help on list, tho
10:42:45  <jez9999> more people are likely to use it
10:43:29  <Tefad> list is a doubly linked array
10:43:39  <Tefad> it's good for when you're processing arbitrary amounts of data
10:44:02  <Tefad> say.. you query a database and you could have 5 results come back.. or 5000...
10:44:14  <Tefad> list is good for that
10:44:20  <jez9999> or... someone drags over a matrix of 4 squares... or 400
10:44:42  <Tefad> perhaps..
10:45:16  <Tefad> if you know the size of the area before you populate memory, you should use something like deque or vector
10:45:36  <Rubidium> use a pool
10:45:47  <jez9999> not really, because im not storing info on every square
10:45:55  <jez9999> only squares that fulfil a certain criterion
10:46:09  <jez9999> im building that store up as i go along
10:46:20  <Rubidium> then you want a map of some sort and not a list/array/vector
10:47:08  <jez9999> that assumes i need to find an element by key
10:47:13  <jez9999> do i?
10:47:29  <Rubidium> well, if you can't use a pool then yes
10:47:39  <jez9999> why cant i use a pool?
10:48:07  <Rubidium> you said "not really" after I said to use a pool
10:48:07  <Tefad> key or index?
10:48:18  <jez9999> i was responding to Tefad
10:48:23  <jez9999> <Tefad> if you know the size of the area before you populate memory,...
10:48:37  <Tefad> if you're building something by hand and you don't know how many you're going to end up with, use list as intermediate
10:48:43  <Tefad> then you can pass it as whatever you want
10:48:56  <jez9999> i must confess ive never heard of a deque
10:48:58  <jez9999> what is that?
10:49:43  <Tefad> double ended queue
10:51:24  <jez9999> might that be better than a list for this purpose
10:51:33  <jez9999> i think in C#, the List<> basically is a deque
10:51:49  <jez9999> in fact im not sure what the difference between a list and queue is; i always thought List preserved order too
10:51:49  <Tefad> lists have great use of pointers
10:52:01  <Tefad> deque/vector usually allocated contiguous memory
10:52:19  <jez9999> ok i'll go for a std::list then
10:52:27  <jez9999> next thing: in C#, i happily dont worry about this
10:52:33  <Tefad> lists have more memory overhead
10:52:39  <jez9999> in c++; do i need to worry about memory management when using std::list?
10:52:50  <Tefad> vectors/deques suck when you keep growing your memory size.
10:52:50  <jez9999> what's the process of using it
10:52:56  <jez9999> yeah i'll use a list
10:52:58  <Tefad> (lists allocate each element separately)
10:53:26  <jez9999> what's the c++ overall process
10:53:29  <Tefad> jez9999: you can use a list just like you would use a vector, it's transparent
10:53:35  <jez9999> in C# it's basically new List<>... add stuff... then forget
10:53:46  <Tefad> it's a basic container
10:53:51  <jez9999> in c++ is there a destructor or something you must call?
10:54:26  <Tefad> not unless you're doing fancy stuff
10:54:33  <jez9999> fancy stuff?
10:54:50  <jez9999> i always thought in C++ you had to manually dispose of objects to avoid mem leaks
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10:58:49  <jez9999> anyone?
11:00:58  <Maedhros> if you allocate them with new, then you have to delete them
11:01:36  <Maedhros> in the case of things like containers, the memory they allocate will be freed when the container goes out of scope and the destructor is called
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11:04:18  <Keir> hey
11:04:26  <Keir> does anyone know where I can rent an openttd server from?
11:06:27  <jez9999> i'll rent you one
11:06:29  <jez9999> 0/mo
11:06:30  <Keir> ooo
11:06:31  <Keir> ah
11:06:37  <jez9999> :-)
11:06:40  <Keir> i'm sure i can find one cheaper :P
11:06:42  <jez9999> /mo
11:06:55  <Keir>  and u got a deal :P
11:07:05  <jez9999> paypal's fees will be that much :-)
11:07:14  <jez9999> god i hate paypal
11:07:19  <Keir> lol no they wont
11:07:30  <jez9999> what do you want it for anyway
11:07:40  <Keir> umm
11:07:45  <Keir> to host an openttd server with :)
11:08:00  <jez9999> i know but do you have a bunch of people who definitely wanna play on it?
11:08:06  <jez9999> or are you gonna put it online and hope for the best? :-)
11:08:23  <Keir> well there's me and a mate who play regularaly and other than that, to hope for the best :)
11:09:04  <jez9999> hmm
11:09:14  <jez9999> i wonder whether anyone's gotten the openttd server working on CentOS...
11:09:46  <mrfrenzy> why should it not
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11:11:13  <jez9999> there's no downloadable RPM build of openttd
11:11:14  <jez9999> :-(
11:11:18  <jez9999> just a horrid .deb
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11:11:31  <Keir> i hate irc
11:11:34  <Keir> so can u rent one?
11:11:45  <jez9999> im just investigating, Keir
11:11:47  <Keir> ah ok thnx
11:11:50  <jez9999> i'll need to install it on CentOS
11:11:58  <jez9999> wonder if anyone's done it
11:12:02  <jez9999> what version of the server do you want
11:12:09  <Keir> 0.6.0 beta 5 preferably
11:12:15  <jez9999> hmm that'll need compiling
11:12:20  <jez9999> hmmm
11:12:30  <mrfrenzy> jez9999: just compile it, it's a breeze
11:12:43  <jez9999> on 'doze, i had to download tons of stuff to compile it :-)
11:12:49  <Rubidium> jez9999: that's because nobody ever has been bothered enough to make rpms
11:12:50  <jez9999> not sure about ni
11:12:51  <jez9999> nix
11:13:23  <mrfrenzy> atleast on debian you would only need to install the build-essential package and you have all tools needed to build it
11:15:56  <Maedhros> Keir: i'm sure you could get a good deal from orudge ( :)
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11:18:56  <yorick> keir: you know about FREE server hosting services,
11:19:50  <Keir> nope? lol
11:20:01  <yorick> now you do :-)
11:20:06  <Keir> the site doesnt load lol
11:20:20  <Keir> oh wait it does
11:20:31  <yorick> but it's laggy
11:20:40  <yorick> its the same server where the ottd runs upon
11:20:40  <jez9999> does it let you run whatever build you want?
11:20:50  <yorick> dunno
11:22:02  <Keir> it doesnt have beta5 :(
11:22:25  <yorick> hmm...jez is very cheap aswell :)
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11:51:19  <jez9999> weird
11:51:23  <jez9999> my server is online
11:51:26  <jez9999> i can connect to it via telnet
11:51:39  <jez9999> yet openttd just says 'SEVRER OFFLINE', seems to make no attempt to connect when i add it
11:52:46  <yorick> firewall?
11:53:26  <jez9999> i enabled it, and can connect to other servers
11:56:02  <jez9999> i dont get it
11:56:17  <jez9999> it's made apparently no attempt to connect to it
11:56:23  <jez9999> the server is accepting connections just fine
11:56:43  <jez9999> does my server need to be in the list that openTTD gets its "Find servers" from before it will connect to a server?
11:58:13  <yorick> no
11:58:36  <yorick> only when server_advertise is on
12:05:07  <jez9999> according to Wireshark, it's not even sending out a UDP packet!
12:05:11  <jez9999> when i click on refresh server
12:05:21  <jez9999> i wonder if that whole 'add server' functionality is kaput
12:09:29  <yorick> maybe company_info is done using a tcp packet?
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12:25:26  <jez9999> how often is the master server list refreshed
12:25:28  <jez9999> for openttd?
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12:28:39  <Rubidium> in what sense?
12:29:31  <Rubidium> new servers: immediatelly, servers going away that notify the ms: immediatelly, servers going away without telling it: within 5 minutes, updating the game stats: every 5 minutes.
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12:29:58  <Rubidium> client rerequesting the server list: whenever the user clicks the button (or opens the window)
12:48:26  * yorick wants to see extra flags so he can go on with flags in client list
12:48:40  <yorick> :)
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13:00:11  <yorick> I would say that [FS# 1868] is a feature request instead of a bug
13:07:05  <yorick> Jez9999: was it you that was working on the train-tracktype-upgrade?
13:08:19  <yorick> I said something like it was already done, didn't I?
13:08:24  <yorick> <-- there is your proof
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13:13:26  <yorick> the difficulty options window lacks a close button
13:16:55  <Volley> i just tested "Timetable based separation patch" ( needed some manual merging with my YAPP patched version), played around, had fun, but basically i think all this seperation stuff could go way more easily... shouldn't a "wait until full loaded or other train of shared order list arrives"- option in the train orders do?
13:17:19  <glx> yorick: there's a cancel button
13:17:37  <yorick> which isn't on the top left, while I like buttons to be on the top left
13:17:46  <yorick> its just...consistency that's missing
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13:18:05  <glx> there was a close button, but it has been removed because it confused many players
13:18:15  <yorick> every other window has a close button
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13:18:50  <glx> no you have an explicit apply or dismiss
13:19:35  <yorick> then remove the cancel button and readd the close button
13:20:15  <yorick> even confirmation windows have a close button ;)
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13:21:15  <yorick> don't you have an explicit apply or dismiss on confirmation windows?
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13:25:17  <yorick> LordAzamath! You've returned!
13:25:27  <LordAzamath> almost
13:25:40  * yorick goes celebrating and dancing
13:25:52  <LordAzamath> ALMOST
13:26:31  * yorick presses pause button for music
13:26:40  <yorick> how do you mean, 'almost'?
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14:38:11  <Pinchiukas> I tell a truck to go to a lorry station near a sawmill that produces goods, load up some boxes, go to a town and unload them, but it doesn't get any money for that, what gives?
14:39:00  <yorick> have you set overload?
14:39:07  <yorick> err...transfer*
14:39:15  <yorick> darn translations
14:39:37  <Pinchiukas> set what?
14:40:04  <yorick>
14:45:07  <shodan> Pinchiukas: easiest thing is not to set 'unload'
14:47:59  <Pinchiukas> ok now everything seems fine, but there is a bunch of goods standing in the station
14:48:15  <yorick> which means your station didn't accept goods
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15:03:48  <Pinchiukas> yorick: why?
15:04:29  <Maedhros> because you don't have any houses near the station that accept goods
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15:09:59  <Pinchiukas> ok, why would the local authority not allow me to build a bus station or a lorry station?
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15:15:49  <yorick> hmm....we need official openttd MP servers!
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15:19:06  <Pinchiukas> yep
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15:29:22  *** lestat_spanish [~Mesias7.4@] has joined #openttd
15:29:28  <lestat_spanish> hi all
15:29:31  <lestat_spanish> hola a todos
15:30:12  <yorick> and now you appear here?
15:30:44  <yorick> yes, people can remove parts that connect stations to make them appear joined afterwards
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15:31:17  <yorick> btw, this channel is english only
15:31:38  <ln> yes, and may i also say that this channel is ENGLISH ONLY
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15:32:45  <RichK67> hi
15:33:18  <yorick> hello RichK
15:33:32  <yorick> I've looked at the bits for houses
15:34:05  <RichK67> i would guess i could steal bit 15 of m2... since i cant see there being > 32768 towns
15:34:30  <yorick> @calc 2048*2048/32768
15:34:30  <DorpsGek> yorick: 128
15:34:36  <yorick> @calc 2048*2048
15:34:36  <DorpsGek> yorick: 4194304
15:34:48  <yorick> ah yeah, it would probably fit
15:35:35  <yorick> lets see, m6 bit 2 is free if newhouses is activated
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15:35:50  <RichK67> but ill do whatever Rubidium suggests, since otherwise ill get complaints - heck, i get them anyway
15:35:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> <yorick> @calc 2048*2048/32768 <- what exactly should this calculation yield? "average 'square tiles' per town"?
15:35:59  <yorick> if not activated, m7 bits 7..4 are free
15:36:17  <RichK67> cant assume its not activated
15:36:17  <yorick> probably
15:36:30  <yorick> m6 bit 2 is free if newhouses is activated
15:36:43  <yorick> you only need one?
15:37:02  <RichK67> yup, and m6 bit 2 would be very nice (its the one im using elsewhere)
15:37:40  <RichK67> if newhouse.... bits 7..2 : Current animation frame (bits 5..0); bit 6 in m3
15:37:51  <RichK67> m6 bit 2 used
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15:38:12  <yorick> you could use 2 different bits?
15:38:28  <lestat_spanish>
15:38:28  <lestat_spanish> As a question can I do to have two separate stations late the same station?
15:38:34  <RichK67> yeah - id just switch which bit to look at based on tile type
15:38:49  <yorick> lestat_spanish: I already answered it to you
15:39:13  <RichK67> slightly ugly, but my philosophy is prove it works first, then make it pretty
15:39:35  <yorick> but, can't you switch between m6 bit 2 if newhouses is activated and m7 bit 4 if not?
15:40:04  <RichK67> m6 bit 2 is *used* when newhouses in use
15:40:10  <lestat_spanish>
15:40:11  <lestat_spanish> Forgiveness was in the bathroom and was not English
15:40:37  <lestat_spanish> I am using the translator google
15:40:51  <yorick> ah, ignored that lestat guy, now, m6 bit 2 is not, landscape.html says
15:41:14  <yorick> m6 :* If newhouses is activated
15:41:14  <yorick>           o bits 7..3 : Current animation frame
15:41:14  <yorick>           o bit 2 : free
15:41:45  <RichK67> not in the docs im looking at... (ex-trunk)
15:41:57  <yorick> you might want to try trunk
15:42:44  <lestat_spanish> ~yorick~ Do not be so wrong
15:42:58  <RichK67> just synced to trunk... here is the quote:
15:42:59  <RichK67> m6 :
15:42:59  <RichK67>
15:42:59  <RichK67>     * If newhouses is activated
15:42:59  <RichK67>           o bits 7..2 : Current animation frame (bits 5..0); bit 6 in m3
15:42:59  <RichK67>     * Standard behaviour
15:43:01  <RichK67>           o bits 7..2 : lift position (for houses type 04 and 05)
15:43:01  <RichK67>     * bits 1..0 : tropic zone specifier
15:43:15  <lestat_spanish> It does good
15:43:15  <yorick> wait-yes-animation frames got extended
15:43:42  <lestat_spanish> Someone throws a game?
15:44:56  <yorick> @openttd commit 12347
15:44:57  <DorpsGek> yorick: Commit by frosch :: r12347 /trunk (5 files in 2 dirs) (2008-03-06 14:21:10 UTC)
15:44:58  <DorpsGek> yorick: -Feature(ette): Increase house animation frame number from 32 to 128.
15:45:23  <yorick> grr
15:48:10  <yorick> which basically means nothing is free when newhouses are enabled
15:48:34  <RichK67> yup, although i am sure that m2 bit 15 wont exactly be missed for a very very long time
15:49:20  <yorick> but it is possible to build that many towns on a 2048 map
15:50:31  <yorick> and what if it will go being missed?
15:50:50  <RichK67> possible, but highly improbable... as you showed, you would have to have only 128 tiles per town ie 16x8 max. call it 11 squared: minimum separation is more than that
15:51:07  <lestat_spanish>
15:51:12  <RichK67> and that assumes no space lost to edge tiles, etc
15:51:15  <lestat_spanish> Someone throws a game?
15:51:54  <yorick> hmm...yes
15:52:03  <yorick> and with the extra large maps patch?
15:52:13  <yorick> **future**
15:52:32  <RichK67> doesnt increase the surface area beyond 2kx2k
15:52:46  <yorick> I think it does
15:53:10  <yorick> it makes 4096*4096 possible
15:54:17  <RichK67> there are two versions. One with "reasonable" limits (max 8192 map, max 4 Mi tiles (2^22)) that aims for trunk
15:55:00  <yorick> and that makes 8192x8192 possible
15:55:09  <RichK67> no - work it out
15:55:19  <yorick> weren't you saying something about thinking about future?
15:55:21  <RichK67> 2^22 = 2048x2048
15:55:25  <RichK67> yeah
15:55:27  <RichK67> i know
15:55:39  <yorick> be carefull
15:55:40  <RichK67> its obviously not an adequate solution
15:57:19  <Wolf01> hi RichK67, I noticed the screens of your new work, really nice, congratulations, I hope you'll finish it :D
15:57:51  <RichK67> its an experiment - it might not fly
15:58:03  <