Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:02:12 *** divoafx [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 00:02:12 *** divo [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:05:45 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:10:47 *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@a62-251-21-79.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 00:13:18 *** Mark is now known as MarkAsleep 00:16:08 *** cyber [~chatzilla@85.138.146.180] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:23:29 *** Lillefix [~Hakon@062016172110.customer.alfanett.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:27:29 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 00:29:41 <Ammller> heya 00:29:50 <Ammller> did something change with the clientlist? 00:30:36 <Ammller> its not accessable like it was in past with current nightly 00:30:56 *** planetmaker_ [~chatzilla@Fcfeb.f.ppp-pool.de] has joined #openttd 00:30:59 <Ammller> (click on company icon..) 00:33:43 *** planetmaker [~chatzilla@Fcf06.f.ppp-pool.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:33:44 *** divoafx [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:33:51 *** planetmaker_ is now known as planetmaker 00:33:56 *** divo [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 00:41:04 *** MarkAsleep is now known as Mark 00:44:52 *** roboman [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:45:05 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 00:52:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r12401 /trunk/src/oldloader.cpp: -Fix (r9754): when loading TTD savegame some data were lost (profits, ...) due to a 'reallocation' for vehicle type conversion. The conversion is now done before loading the vehicle chunk. 00:57:55 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:07:47 *** ben_goodger [~ben@host81-153-29-28.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 01:09:10 *** divoafx [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 01:09:10 *** divo [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:13:44 *** divoafx [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has quit [] 01:21:19 *** shodan [user@ppp101-219.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Client Exiting] 01:21:19 *** xerxes is now known as shodan 01:25:47 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:28:03 *** planetmaker [~chatzilla@Fcfeb.f.ppp-pool.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:28:06 *** planetmaker_ [~chatzilla@Fcfeb.f.ppp-pool.de] has joined #openttd 01:28:09 *** planetmaker_ is now known as planetmaker 01:30:40 *** ben_goodger [~ben@host81-153-29-28.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:31:36 *** ben_goodger [~ben@host81-153-29-28.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 01:32:40 *** Brianetta [~brian@77-103-231-158.cable.ubr05.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 01:35:17 *** Eddi|zuHause3 [~johekr@p54B77949.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:40:11 *** planetmaker [~chatzilla@Fcfeb.f.ppp-pool.de] has quit [Quit: Good bye!] 01:41:45 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B760D7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:45:03 *** Keir [~blah@thespinneys.plus.com] has quit [] 01:51:48 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.174.237] has joined #openttd 01:52:00 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 01:55:53 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D8A0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:59:08 *** HerzogDeXtE1 [~Flex@89.246.174.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:26:50 <nicfer> today I started a rv-only game 02:26:59 <nicfer> now I have 298 vehicles 02:42:32 *** Osai is now known as Osai`off 02:47:54 *** roboman [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 02:47:56 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:53:02 *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@a62-251-21-79.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:14:45 *** lola22 [~lola22@d033.dhcp212-198-248.noos.fr] has joined #openttd 03:16:32 *** lola22 [~lola22@d033.dhcp212-198-248.noos.fr] has quit [] 03:16:38 *** Ammller [~Ammler@adsl-84-226-10-64.adslplus.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:40:19 *** gfldex [~dex@dslb-088-074-139-109.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 03:42:13 *** gfldex_ [~dex@dslb-088-074-155-099.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:48:01 *** Poopsmith [~poop@124-197-37-77.callplus.net.nz] has joined #openttd 03:48:49 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 03:49:04 *** roboman [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:00:29 *** Osai`off is now known as Osai 04:04:02 *** nicfer [~nicfer@cm187107.red91-117.mundo-r.com] has left #openttd [] 04:24:46 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:29:02 *** HerzogDeXtE1 [~Flex@89.246.166.238] has joined #openttd 04:29:02 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.174.237] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:46:54 *** a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-88-79.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: The ending changes tone & is actually quite sad - but it involves a scene of necrophilia, so that's just another plus in my book.....] 04:48:52 *** a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-88-79.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 04:49:37 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:49:38 *** roboman [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 05:09:01 *** a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-88-79.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: The ending changes tone & is actually quite sad - but it involves a scene of necrophilia, so that's just another plus in my book.....] 05:11:07 *** a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-88-79.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 05:20:45 *** ben_goodger [~ben@host81-153-29-28.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:29:09 *** ben_goodger [~ben@host81-153-29-28.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 05:54:43 *** ben_goodger [~ben@host81-153-29-28.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:55:07 *** ben_goodger [~ben@host81-153-29-28.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 05:56:23 *** UserError [~User@c-98-202-77-105.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 05:57:05 *** UserErr0r [~User@c-98-202-77-105.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:00:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12402 /trunk/src/ (main_gui.cpp toolbar_gui.cpp): -Fix: some toolbars didn't seem to show anymore. 06:05:16 *** UserErr0r [~User@c-98-202-77-105.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 06:05:17 *** UserError [~User@c-98-202-77-105.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:05:50 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-156.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 06:33:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12403 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Codechange: unmisuse a variable in the chat window and make the code a little cleaner. 06:37:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> "unmisuse" ... great ;) 06:38:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12404 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Codechange: rename the string buffer used for network GUIs to something more unique than what it is called now. 06:49:10 <peter1138> Morninginginging 06:50:12 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 06:50:13 *** roboman [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:53:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12405 /trunk/src/widget.cpp: -Codechange: some coding style and 'untodoifying' some comments that were certainly not todos. 06:58:02 <peter1138> He's on a roll... 07:01:06 <Poopsmith> having fun, i see 07:06:05 *** lestat_spanish [~Mesias7.4@87.223.193.135] has joined #openttd 07:07:23 <lestat_spanish> hi 07:07:26 <lestat_spanish> hi all 07:07:28 <lestat_spanish> Which is the port for openttd? 07:07:50 <Rubidium> @openttd port 07:07:50 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound) 07:09:52 <lestat_spanish> Thanks 07:13:33 *** lestat_spanish [~Mesias7.4@87.223.193.135] has quit [Quit: MESIAS 7.4 by: Lois & JAP- http://www.lois.infierno.org] 07:20:32 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:27:33 *** Slowpoke [~Lobster@dslb-088-073-194-202.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 07:30:58 *** Arie^ [asdfsadf@villabadmuts.adsl.utwente.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:36:44 *** Osai is now known as Osai`off 07:44:03 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c122-108-33-134.eburwd9.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 07:55:05 *** admin [barti@shells.pl] has joined #openttd 07:55:07 *** admin [barti@shells.pl] has left #openttd [] 07:55:27 *** admin [barti@shells.pl] has joined #openttd 07:55:32 <admin> hello 07:55:35 <admin> my name is bond 07:55:38 <admin> James Bond 07:55:42 <admin> Agent 007 07:59:53 *** admin [barti@shells.pl] has quit [Quit: BitchX-1.1-final -- just do it.] 07:59:53 *** Forked [~kjetil@bruker.adsl.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:02:09 *** planetmaker [~chatzilla@Fcf1b.f.ppp-pool.de] has joined #openttd 08:04:00 *** Forked [~kjetil@bruker.adsl.no] has joined #openttd 08:11:42 *** dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5B11E96E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:15:09 *** PeterGriffin [~Soul@ip68-226-183-97.lf.br.cox.net] has joined #openttd 08:19:22 *** planetmaker is now known as pm_away 08:20:29 *** egladil [~egladil@83.233.184.124] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:21:03 *** yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 08:21:45 *** Osai`off is now known as Osai 08:22:20 <yorick> hello 08:24:19 <Poopsmith> hi yorick 08:25:42 *** PeterGriffin is now known as geekNerd 08:26:39 * Poopsmith wonders if yorick is OOo yorick 08:26:42 * yorick is talking to a bot, and therefor, /me is GoneWacko 08:27:15 <yorick> [09:25] <@The__Master> yorick: Well, I'm stumped. If you were a lumberjack, you'd be pounding me flush with the ground right now. 08:27:15 <yorick> [09:25] <@yorick> The__Master, :o 08:27:15 <yorick> [09:25] <@The__Master> yorick: What a round statement that is. 08:27:56 <Poopsmith> lol 08:28:29 <yorick> 09:27] <@yorick> The__Master: thank you :) 08:28:29 <yorick> [09:28] <@The__Master> yorick: You are most welcome. 08:29:18 <yorick> hehe, he's in #?, if you would like to chat with it 08:32:22 *** Gekz [~brendan@213.219.148.207.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #openttd 08:36:39 *** pm_away is now known as planetmaker 08:39:08 *** ben_goodger [~ben@host81-153-29-28.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:39:30 *** ben_goodger [~ben@host81-153-29-28.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 08:40:22 *** dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5B11E96E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: dR3x4cK] 08:51:20 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:51:24 *** roboman [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 08:55:48 *** ben_goodger [~ben@host81-153-29-28.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:56:16 *** ben_goodger [~ben@host81-153-29-28.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 08:56:52 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 09:04:43 *** Hassal [~Hassal@s559031d6.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 09:05:32 <Hassal> Could Someone Tell Me how to set a welcome message to my dedicated server? I know it was something with a script folder, and a say_on_connect.bat but I cant recall it 09:05:51 *** jez9999 [trestra@87-194-212-214.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:05:57 <yorick> yes, I could 09:06:41 <Hassal> Please proceed 09:07:44 <yorick> hehe, lets see where that wiki page is 09:08:06 <Hassal> There isn't I believe 09:09:03 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host188-62-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 09:09:28 <yorick> scripts/on_server_connect.scr 09:09:44 <yorick> and put some say commands in it 09:09:46 <Hassal> ah I knew it was something like that :P 09:09:47 <Hassal> Thx 09:13:04 <Hassal> It doesn't work :p 09:13:22 <Hassal> I have put some commands: say "blbalbal" in it 09:13:38 <yorick> yes 09:14:31 *** elmex [~elmex@p57B1EC80.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:14:51 <Wolf01> hello 09:15:28 <Hassal> Ah after restart of the server it worked 09:15:31 <Hassal> thx yorick 09:15:34 *** Hassal [~Hassal@s559031d6.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] 09:15:40 <yorick> :) 09:21:18 *** thgergo [~Administr@dsl5402B358.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 09:24:04 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-84-226-10-64.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 09:24:34 *** Osai is now known as Osai`off 09:30:01 *** Osai`off is now known as Osai 09:34:00 *** mrfrenzy [mrfrenzy@1-1-9-15a.hka.j.bostream.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:39:57 *** mrfrenzy [mrfrenzy@1-1-9-15a.hka.j.bostream.se] has joined #openttd 09:45:05 *** XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|bnc 09:50:11 *** Tefad [~tefad@c-71-63-29-175.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:57:05 *** elmex [~elmex@p57B1EC80.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:01:23 *** SpBot [terom@marttila.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:02:48 *** strongfra [cscsaba@catv540317E0.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 10:02:51 *** strongfra [cscsaba@catv540317E0.pool.t-online.hu] has left #openttd [] 10:03:18 *** SpBot [terom@marttila.de] has joined #openttd 10:03:49 <yorick> SpBot left? 10:04:33 <yorick> oh, he quit ^^ 10:17:42 *** Zahl [~Zahl@p549F22C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 10:20:12 <jez9999> hmm 10:20:23 <jez9999> is there a way to disable the behaviour where Shift speeds up the game? 10:20:30 <Rubidium> yes 10:20:32 <jez9999> that's really annoying as shift it also used to get a cost animation 10:20:42 <jez9999> erm 10:20:44 <jez9999> cost estimate 10:21:55 *** Gekz_ [~brendan@213.219.148.207.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #openttd 10:22:44 <jez9999> how do you disable it 10:22:54 <yorick> I don't think there is 10:22:58 <Rubidium> by compiling a non-debug version 10:23:23 *** elmex [~elmex@p57B1EC80.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:23:45 <jez9999> weird, it only does it in debug 10:23:46 <jez9999> how come? 10:24:00 <Rubidium> because it's coded that way 10:24:14 <jez9999> you know full well i meant what is the reason for the decision. 10:24:19 <jez9999> why are you so pedantic? 10:24:22 *** Gekz_ [~brendan@213.219.148.207.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [] 10:24:25 <yorick> because it was needed 10:24:29 <yorick> or useful 10:24:36 <yorick> or whatever you want it to be ;) 10:24:50 <Alberth> devs want easy way to ff for faster debugging 10:26:01 <Rubidium> what kind of answers were you expecting? 10:26:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> in non-debug build it's tab 10:26:10 <yorick> it is? 10:26:37 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, i am making up random stuff because i have nothing to say 10:26:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> </sarcasm> 10:26:48 <yorick> I guessed so 10:28:00 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A473D5.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 10:28:04 <jez9999> hmm i have a slight dilemma 10:28:07 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause3: actually shift doesn't work in the non-sdl versions 10:28:29 <jez9999> im oding a patch that lets you upgrade trains in depots at the same time as converting track type 10:28:41 <yorick> we know 10:28:42 <jez9999> now say the player drags over a matrix that contains track and a depot with trains in 10:28:55 <jez9999> they have the money to upgrade the track but not the trains 10:29:05 <jez9999> i wanna allow them to upgrade the track but the depot just wont get upgraded 10:29:14 *** natacha29 [~natacha29@d033.dhcp212-198-248.noos.fr] has joined #openttd 10:29:21 <yorick> then you should spit a nice not enough money message 10:29:27 <jez9999> this presumably means not doing an AddCost when they're just querying the cost, or they wont be able to do the conversion 10:29:37 *** Poopsmith [~poop@124-197-37-77.callplus.net.nz] has quit [Quit: Poopsmith] 10:29:42 <jez9999> no because i want to allow them to just upgrade the track tiles but leave the depot 10:29:45 <jez9999> if there isnt the money 10:29:53 <yorick> why would they want that? 10:29:58 <jez9999> however this means that when they shift-click and see the cost estimation, it wont include the depot upgrade cost 10:30:11 <jez9999> because they might wanna upgrade track around a depot for now, and do the depot later 10:30:16 <jez9999> (other trains might use that track) 10:30:28 <yorick> then they shouldn't drag over the depot 10:30:35 <jez9999> it's handy if it just upgrades the track and leaves the depot, which is liable to be far more expensive if trains are to be upgraded 10:30:40 <Eddi|zuHause3> jez9999: the level land tool does area-terraforming like that, it goes on until the money runs out 10:30:49 <jez9999> yeah but if you have a complex track system with several depots that might be a pain 10:30:53 <jez9999> you might miss bits of track 10:30:57 *** natacha29 [~natacha29@d033.dhcp212-198-248.noos.fr] has quit [] 10:31:01 <yorick> try ctrl-? 10:31:08 <jez9999> ctrl? 10:31:24 <yorick> ctrl with track upgrade ignores depots with trains? 10:31:45 <Rubidium> better do it the other way around 10:32:02 <yorick> ctrl without track upgrade? 10:32:26 <yorick> I don't think that's a good idea 10:32:37 <Rubidium> no, with ctrl upgrade the trains too, without ctrl upgrade empty depots and tracks 10:32:39 <Alberth> and probably be consistent, player shouldn't have to remember or know whether a depot contains trains or not 10:32:54 <jez9999> what would be nice is if the cost estimate could include the depot upgrade cost, but when actually doing the command it only upgrades them if you have the money 10:33:03 <Rubidium> as ctrl (usually) is used for the more "powerful" functions 10:33:37 <yorick> ok, then do it that way 10:33:44 <jez9999> but im guessing the system is designed to force the cost estimate to be identical to the actual cost added using AddCost 10:33:46 <Rubidium> as replacing trains is more "powerful" than not replacing the trains 10:34:18 <jez9999> what about replacing empty depots? do i not do them either without ctrl? 10:34:24 <jez9999> or treat them like regular track? 10:36:23 <yorick> you should keep normal behavior like it is now without control pressed 10:36:49 <yorick> so also: upgrade normal depots with normal trains in them to electrified depots without upgrading the trains 10:37:17 <jez9999> and how do i test for ctrl pressed? 10:37:28 <yorick> err 10:37:59 <yorick> you could probably copy that from other functions 10:41:18 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 10:44:31 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd 10:48:01 *** roboman [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:48:10 *** UserError [~User@c-98-202-77-105.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 10:48:39 *** Nitehawk [~nitehawk@c-76-30-125-86.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:53:58 *** elmex [~elmex@p57B1EC80.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:54:26 *** UserErr0r [~User@c-98-202-77-105.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:57:44 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BD2A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:59:16 *** lidi20 [~lidi20@d033.dhcp212-198-248.noos.fr] has joined #openttd 11:00:55 *** lidi20 [~lidi20@d033.dhcp212-198-248.noos.fr] has quit [] 11:02:52 *** einKarl [~einKarl@p5499297C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 11:03:19 *** Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AWAY 11:07:39 *** elmex [~elmex@p57B1EC80.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:17:44 *** UserErr0r [~User@c-98-202-77-105.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 11:18:00 *** keyweed_ [~Dennis@home.keyweed.com] has joined #openttd 11:18:21 *** UserError [~User@c-98-202-77-105.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:25:30 *** keyweed [~Dennis@home.keyweed.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:26:40 <SpComb> we/llc 11:28:45 *** Xeryus|bnc is now known as XeryusTC 11:29:48 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 11:38:00 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 11:43:15 <yorick> how to modify own flyspray tasks? 11:56:41 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 12:00:34 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 12:06:17 <yorick> you could close FS#294: already done, we have 11 now :-) 12:09:50 *** Tefad [~tefad@c-71-63-29-175.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 12:11:28 *** ben_goodger [~ben@host81-153-29-28.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:11:49 *** ben_goodger [~ben@host81-153-29-28.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 12:12:19 *** fatal- [~fatal-@p5B1772B9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:13:14 <fatal-> hello 12:13:28 <yorick> hello 12:13:38 <fatal-> in which ways is ottd better than the patch? 12:13:43 <fatal-> are there big differences? 12:14:08 <yorick> ... 12:14:13 <yorick> multiplayer 12:15:12 <fatal-> but in gameplay? and is it possible that in ottd the AI only builds trucks etc and no trains? 12:15:33 <yorick> if you configure it that way 12:16:07 <Patrick`> fatal-: flamewar territory. 12:16:09 <yorick> but the AI's in Ottd will soon be replaced by user AI 12:16:15 <fatal-> k 12:16:18 <Patrick`> big maps 12:16:19 <yorick> 0.7.0, that is 12:16:25 <Patrick`> and we mean biiiiig maps 12:16:27 <fatal-> when will it come? 12:16:30 <yorick> 2048x2048 12:16:43 <Patrick`> and a zillion user-generated trainsets. 12:16:48 <Patrick`> but that's a common feature 12:17:06 <Patrick`> it's a matter of personal preference, there's a page on the wiki that compares features 12:17:38 <fatal-> thx 12:17:38 <yorick> http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Comparison_of_OpenTTD_and_TTDPatch_features 12:18:34 <fatal-> ill stay at ottd anyway 12:20:44 <fatal-> should i download the latest stable version or the new beta? 12:20:45 <Patrick`> imo, it doesn't make sense to switch from ottd to ttdp 12:20:58 <Patrick`> the patch has users because it was first. 12:21:07 *** Gekz [~brendan@213.219.148.207.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:21:22 <yorick> beta :) 12:21:25 *** Gekz [~brendan@121.218.49.21] has joined #openttd 12:21:54 <fatal-> when will 0.7 come? or is that unknown? 12:22:05 <yorick> when it's done 12:22:22 <DaleStan> The patch has users because some people like to be able to choose what features they will use, rather than having changes stuffed down their throat. 12:22:46 <yorick> openttd has something usefull called "Patch Settings" 12:22:47 *** UserError [~User@c-98-202-77-105.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 12:23:17 <DaleStan> That can't change everything. 12:23:27 <yorick> list what it can't change 12:24:07 <Rubidium> what DaleStan just means is that you can disable the ability to load newgrfs in TTDP and you can't in OTTD (amongst other things though) 12:24:08 <DaleStan> Like the Keyboard shortcuts. The landscape toolbar. 12:24:35 <DaleStan> And can you still get to OPF? 12:25:12 <yorick> who would want that? 12:25:22 <fatal-> oO 12:25:25 <DaleStan> It's far faster 12:25:31 <yorick> you can get NTP thoug 12:25:41 <DaleStan> And I know how not to break it. 12:25:41 <yorick> and OPF for roadvehicles and ships still exists 12:25:58 <yorick> 256 tiles is a stupid limit whith 2048x2048 maps ;) 12:26:40 <Patrick`> fatal-: basically, you just want better AI? 12:26:57 <Patrick`> but the default AI just shits all over the map and then goes bankrupt and opens a new one 12:27:01 <fatal-> i just want to play and know which one has the better gameplay, but ill stay at ottd anyway 12:27:10 <Patrick`> I find singleplayer on max difficulty to be far more of a fun challenge 12:27:17 <Patrick`> costs have gone up 12:27:20 <DaleStan> Also can't change the acceleration settings properly. 12:27:26 <yorick> breakdowns are crazy 12:27:34 <Patrick`> I, uh, disabled them 12:27:47 <yorick> realistic acceleration solves a whole bunch of nasty acceleration 12:27:48 <DaleStan> Two choices are not sufficient for someone who's used to 65536. 12:27:50 <Patrick`> what's the point of breakdowns when it just adds more micromanagement to make them go away? 12:27:59 <yorick> so you don't need acceleration settings anymore 12:28:12 <Patrick`> I may as well just not take the time to build depots and schedule services, and just play with breakdowns off 12:28:17 <yorick> because you can't build bigger networks with it? 12:28:33 *** UserErr0r [~User@c-98-202-77-105.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:28:34 <Patrick`> RA's nice 12:28:44 <Patrick`> I just hope it never changes to make all my junction layouts obsolete 12:29:26 <Patrick`> jimmy left 1, straight for four, iiinto the bend, whip round after 7 half-tiles and bam! the train's ground to a halt because it's actually 10 cars long 12:31:03 *** thgergo [~Administr@dsl5402B358.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:32:18 *** jenny20 [~jenny20@d033.dhcp212-198-248.noos.fr] has joined #openttd 12:32:19 *** lolman is now known as lolfood 12:33:01 *** lolfood [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:33:04 *** SDK [~s@ip219-90-209-87.adsl2.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 12:34:14 <SDK> hi 12:34:20 <SDK> I have a problem with the rcon commands 12:34:26 *** jenny20 [~jenny20@d033.dhcp212-198-248.noos.fr] has quit [] 12:34:28 <SDK> for some reason when I am ingame they dont work 12:34:31 *** fatal- [~fatal-@p5B1772B9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] 12:34:36 <SDK> when I enter them directly in the console they do work 12:34:40 <SDK> like kick 1 12:34:42 <SDK> and 12:34:45 <SDK> load 1.sav 12:34:53 *** lolman [~John@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 12:34:57 <yorick> try putting the command between " 12:36:50 <SDK> ah thanks I did it wrong:) 12:36:51 <SDK> I did 12:36:55 <SDK> load "1.sav" 12:37:00 <SDK> but "load 1.sav" worked:) 12:37:00 <SDK> ty 12:37:24 <SDK> cya:D 12:37:26 *** SDK [~s@ip219-90-209-87.adsl2.versatel.nl] has quit [] 12:37:55 <yorick> is it "join, say hi, ask a question, get answer, and leave again" day? 14:47:48 *** SpComb [terom@zapotek.paivola.fi] has joined #openttd 14:48:04 <Rubidium> if the train leaves immediatelly then a) the timetable is not set up properly, b) the vehicle is late 14:48:16 <FloSoft> no train is in time 14:48:18 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:48:25 <FloSoft> but it waits 1 day 14:48:27 <FloSoft> and leaves 14:48:39 <Progman> the time value is used if the vehicle get the order, not if it already has the order 14:49:01 <Progman> maybe you must wait one order cycle 14:49:24 <FloSoft> so if i say drive 40 days to station, and wait 10 days, it leaves because it takes 40 days to reach the station? 14:51:05 <FloSoft> hmm those timetables, werent they in some old nightlys already? where you could say "wait at maximum of 5 days to fully load"? those orders dont exist anymore do they? 14:51:38 <glx> not that I remember 14:54:36 *** HMage` [~HMage@195.218.191.104] has joined #openttd 14:56:44 *** HMage` [~HMage@195.218.191.104] has quit [] 14:58:17 <Volley> there are 2 different and seperate patches that do mess with stuff like that but ... well ... they seem to be more or less on hold and not quite up to date. and additionally i am not sure if that is the right way to go 14:58:36 <Volley> 1) timetables are complicated 14:58:53 <Volley> 2) what does one try to archive with a timetable? 14:59:15 <Rubidium> a more fluid ride 14:59:19 <Volley> in real Life, timetables are nice for passengers ... but in TT, there is no real-life-passenger 14:59:49 <Rubidium> *if* you time the trains in such a manner that they do not have to wait anywhere, you can make quite a bit more money and use less tracks 15:00:07 <Volley> hmm 15:00:34 <Patrick`> openttd is all about vast simplifications to make it model in a fun way and be playable and not too unrealistic 15:00:46 <Patrick`> perhaps there's an approximation we could make, to make timetabling approximate reality 15:00:47 <Volley> Patrick`: i fully agree 15:00:51 <Patrick`> in that it attracts more passengers somehow 15:00:58 <Volley> hmm 15:01:14 <Patrick`> an example of a simplification that games get away with: in defcon, units don't have health. bullets have probabilities. 15:01:58 <Volley> Rubidium: interesting point... that makes me wonder: is it better to have always a train waiting at a station to not miss any passengers/freight, or is it better to have all trains mooving non-stop and just picking up what is waiting at the station? 15:02:16 <Rubidium> the former 15:03:02 <Volley> well, if it is better to always have a train waiting at a station, then why not create a order type similar to full load, but just "load until next vehicle arrives" 15:03:40 <jez9999> why would you wanna do that 15:03:48 <Volley> extreamely easy, and propably as effective as a sophisticated timetable 15:04:02 <Rubidium> cause that's going to cause an uneven 'load' on the network, whereas you get a much more even load on the network with time tables 15:04:46 <Volley> hmm - you sure? 15:05:16 <yorick> do we have any 0.7 roadmap yet? 15:05:58 <Alberth> Volley: If a train has some delay, it may get pushed out of the station quickly because of the next train after it 15:06:29 <Alberth> yorick: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Roadmap_0.7 15:06:46 <Rubidium> if a train has a delay, another train will have to load longer -> unloading takes longer -> train has a delay -> ripple! 15:07:52 <Rubidium> the delayed train will be 'quicker' gone because of the next train arriving relatively sooner -> unloading takes shorter -> train leaves earlier -> ripple! 15:08:19 <Volley> hmm ... that would result in ... damn ... yep - instead of spreading out they will do the opposite 15:08:28 <Rubidium> so at one point all trains will come very close after eachother with one very big hole between two trains 15:10:24 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd 15:11:56 <FloSoft> Rubidium: that happens without timetables currently too 15:12:31 <Volley> ok ... i'm convinced ... and i begin to understand that there is no (easy) solution without timetables 15:13:44 <FloSoft> but that old "wait at max x days for full load" worked well for me on older nightly versions (i think the patch was in there a year ago or so) 15:14:43 <FloSoft> and those copy&paste features werent bad for duplicating complex stations 15:15:12 <Volley> copy&paste features? 15:15:44 <FloSoft> there was a patch to copy&paste long time ago 15:15:54 <yorick> there still is 15:16:20 <Rubidium> it's only one big copy-paste, thus unmaintainable, thus unmergeable 15:16:26 <FloSoft> it is in the nightlys? 15:17:00 <yorick> read the above 15:17:10 <FloSoft> ah oh :( 15:18:23 <yorick> but Rubidium, I would be thankfull to see some more language flags in trunk, (the ones in FS#1866 for example) 15:19:43 <yorick> *hint* *hint* 15:20:56 <Volley> searched the forums for mentions of copy & paste patch and yeah - long ago, big bunch of unmaintainable written code 15:21:13 <yorick> I think greek and estonian people would also be happy with it 15:22:05 <yorick> (and I could continiue) poor greeks and estonians feel underrated now :( 15:22:46 <Rubidium> newBornAcorn? 15:23:09 <yorick> huh? 15:24:41 <Rubidium> glx is the man of the flags :) 15:24:54 <yorick> the color-disquise doesn't actually show up, does it? 15:25:12 <yorick> :) 15:32:28 <Ammler> yorick: but there are 2 different usages of flags, one is for language, the other for location 15:33:01 <Ammler> from where do you get the flag on the client list? 15:33:18 <aleex> how can the server-admin give money to someone? 15:33:59 <Ammler> aleex: thats not possible, iirc. 15:43:14 *** Zahl [~Zahl@p549F22C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:44:19 *** Zahl [~Zahl@p549F22C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 15:51:15 *** Amix [~Amix2008@cm-84.208.143.45.getinternet.no] has joined #openttd 15:51:29 <Amix> hey 15:51:49 <Amix> wondering if its possible to know where i can download ttd files for osx version of the game? 15:53:02 <yorick> Ammler: how do you mean? I get the language flag 15:53:59 <Amix> ? 15:54:10 <yorick> [16:32] <Ammler> yorick: but there are 2 different usages of flags, one is for language, the other for location 15:54:14 <Amix> where can i download the ttd datafiles? 15:54:24 <yorick> transporttycoon.net 15:55:10 <Ammler> yorick: http://bugs.openttd.org/?getfile=2639 15:55:25 <yorick> yes, what's with that one/ 15:55:53 <Ammler> well, is that flag meant for the language or the location? 15:55:55 <yorick> I currently use them for languages 15:56:06 <yorick> as I can't really detect location ^^ 15:57:24 <yorick> with the extra flags, every language you can set in the config has its own flag 15:58:13 <Amix> thanks 15:58:28 *** urlauber [~urlauber@dslb-088-064-130-060.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 15:59:46 <urlauber> hi there 16:01:50 <urlauber> I just discovered that some of my trains cost a minus amount of money. I'm using 0.5.3, is this a known thing or should I report that somewhere? 16:02:55 <blathijs> urlauber: Did you search on bugs.openttd.org ? 16:05:58 <Ammler> yorick, what does that flag there help? 16:06:06 <urlauber> yes, blathijs, i searched for "money" and "negative" bugs, but didn't find something that fit 16:06:50 <Alberth> urlauber: I remember discussions about negative train income at tt-forums 16:06:56 <glx> overflow bug, fixed a long time ago 16:07:26 <Alberth> wasn't it something with taking too much time to reach a nearby dest? 16:08:09 <glx> no they have a negative running cost 16:08:56 <urlauber> not negative train income or running cost, but cost for bying them 16:09:01 <urlauber> buying 16:09:07 <glx> same cause :) 16:09:35 <Alberth> aka, upgrade :) 16:09:38 *** Amix [~Amix2008@cm-84.208.143.45.getinternet.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:09:53 <Sionide> maybe they're just old and the manufacturers can't rid of 'em fast enough :P 16:10:12 <urlauber> ok, just wanted to know that, thx! 16:11:17 <urlauber> yeah, they have been a pretty long time on the market (~200 years) ;) 16:11:55 <Alberth> they shouls sell them to the steel factory instead :P 16:12:04 <Alberth> s/shouls/should/ 16:12:20 <Sionide> heh 16:13:02 <urlauber> I'm gonna ask the guy at the steel factory :) cu, bye! 16:13:25 *** urlauber [~urlauber@dslb-088-064-130-060.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:14:10 *** helb [~helb@62.240.176.23] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:17:12 *** lolman [~John@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 16:19:22 <yorick> Ammler: what flag where? 16:19:48 <Ammler> the flag on that screen, I linked 16:20:17 <yorick> yes, what about that? 16:21:26 <yorick> it helps in a way, players can see what language other players speak without them having to put [EN] [SP] [GR] in there name 16:21:28 <yorick> their* 16:24:23 *** Amix [~Amix2008@cm-84.208.143.45.getinternet.no] has joined #openttd 16:24:27 <Amix> hello 16:24:33 <Amix> :) 16:24:43 <Amix> downloaded the files 16:24:47 <Amix> installed 16:24:49 <yorick> hello again 16:24:52 <Amix> tried both 0.5.3 16:25:00 <Amix> and 0.6.0 beta 16:25:14 <Amix> both are infact disconnecting my wlan connection 16:25:22 <Amix> i am using macosx leopard 16:25:28 <yorick> they are? 16:25:33 <Amix> yes 16:25:40 <yorick> that is a serious bug, post it at bugs.openttd.org! 16:25:42 <Amix> when i click for searching servers 16:25:49 <Alberth> Rubidium: Would a refactor-patch with the window.cpp file split in 'window struct funcs' (ie methods), 'window functions', and 'window list functions' be acceptable? 16:25:56 <Amix> it finds lots of ips 16:26:04 <glx> Alberth: if well done why not 16:26:13 <Amix> and it stops the net 16:26:20 <Amix> then i have to go to the router 16:26:23 <Amix> and reset it 16:26:30 <yorick> the second one shouldn't be happening 16:26:34 <glx> you have a bad router 16:26:37 <yorick> the third one is fine :) 16:26:48 <yorick> not supporting UDP correctly ;( 16:26:53 <yorick> blame the router! 16:27:06 <Amix> its a good router 16:27:07 <Amix> SMC 16:27:29 <Amix> it worked before 16:27:35 <yorick> SMC :o 16:27:39 <yorick> bad routers ^^ 16:27:39 <Amix> but ive never tried openttd on leopard before 16:27:53 <Amix> worked in tiger 16:28:02 <Amix> and it works in morphos 16:28:20 <Amix> though the morphos version have problems with my keyboard 16:28:58 <yorick> morphos is known to be buggy with openttd, isn't it? 16:29:12 *** lolman [~John@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:30:03 <Amix> no 16:30:12 <Amix> not really 16:30:49 *** Pinchiukas [~lox@212.122.90.186] has joined #openttd 16:32:44 *** helb [~helb@62.240.176.23] has joined #openttd 16:32:49 <Amix> yorick: could you send the buggreport for me? 16:33:14 <Amix> strange that openttd manages to disconnect my SMC router 16:33:33 <Amix> never happened before 16:34:23 <yorick> what should I say in it? 16:34:48 <glx> Amix: it would be better to report it yourself 16:34:49 <Amix> OpenTTD disconnects wlan connection on osx 16:35:11 <Amix> i am not registered there 16:35:24 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm54.epsilon120.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [] 16:35:27 <yorick> then register 16:35:42 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 16:36:05 <yorick> glx: could you take a look at http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1866 , as Rub1d1um said you're the flags guy 16:36:24 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:36:41 <yorick> ? 16:36:52 <yorick> "please" *begs* 16:36:55 <Amix> i think the reason why morphos version is behind 16:37:02 <Amix> is that you want to go new ways 16:39:42 *** einKarl [~einKarl@p5499297C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:39:46 <Amix> i cant register 16:39:47 <Amix> Notice: Undefined variable: register_text in /www/openttd.org/bugs/scripts/modify.php on line 559 16:39:50 <Amix> getting this 16:40:47 <yorick> try again? 16:42:07 <Amix> dosent work 16:42:07 <glx> I can see Amix in user list 16:42:31 <yorick> lets see if we can submit a bug about the bug tracker at the bug tracker that the bug tracker register to the bug tracker contains a bug that should be posted to the bug tracker but the user can't post a bug to the bug tracker because he can't register at the bug tracker because of the bug in the bug tracker the user wants to post... 16:42:33 <glx> Amix (Michal) 16:42:39 <yorick> try logging in 16:43:02 <Amix> i dont have a password 16:43:35 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 16:43:40 <yorick> not emailed to you 16:43:42 <yorick> ? 16:43:43 *** Amix [~Amix2008@cm-84.208.143.45.getinternet.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:44:26 <yorick> now that is a bug that we should submit at the bug tracker that the bug tracker register to the bug tracker contains a bug that should be posted to the bug tracker but the user can't post a bug to the bug tracker because he can't register at the bug tracker because of the bug in the bug tracker the user wants to post... 16:45:44 <yorick> hmm...I guess you get it 16:49:21 <FloSoft> yorick: thats sth for bash.org -.- 16:50:05 <yorick> add it :) 16:52:55 <yorick> meh...there it goes 16:53:01 *** Wolfolo|AWAY [~wolf01@host186-62-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 16:53:01 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest2432 16:53:01 *** Wolfolo|AWAY is now known as Wolf01 16:54:06 *** Amix [~Amix2008@cm-84.208.143.45.getinternet.no] has joined #openttd 16:54:10 <Amix> damn 16:54:14 <yorick> http://bash.org/?852745 16:54:18 <Amix> disconnecting me everytime 16:55:08 <yorick> its pending moderation :( 16:56:00 <Amix> how is it possible that it disconnects me when trying to find the openttd servers? 16:56:12 <yorick> UDP, probably 16:56:12 <Amix> i write a name 16:56:30 <yorick> mass connections 16:56:43 <yorick> baad routers 16:56:50 <Amix> i have a linksys router it seems 16:56:51 <Amix> hehe 16:57:01 <FloSoft> oh linksys 16:57:10 <FloSoft> crashed at my house with only 4 computers online -.- 16:57:22 <yorick> ottd makes lots of connections when scanning server list, it queries all of the servers 16:57:47 <FloSoft> for the money of that damn router i bought an additional network card and a 4 port hub and accesspoint, no problems anymore -.- 16:59:06 *** Guest2432 [~wolf01@host188-62-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:01:39 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a41673.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 17:01:40 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 17:02:11 <yorick> Bjarni! 17:02:25 <Bjarni> dammit 17:02:31 <yorick> Bjarni! Bjarni! Bjarni! bjarni! bjarni! bjarni! 17:02:37 <Bjarni> my plan about out of sight, out of mind didn't work 17:02:43 <Bjarni> you still do that crap :s 17:03:05 <yorick> you'll never be able to escape it 17:03:16 <yorick> or you should stay connected 17:03:28 <Bjarni> then I wouldn't get any work done 17:04:01 *** Amix2 [~Amix2008@cm-84.208.143.45.getinternet.no] has joined #openttd 17:04:11 <Amix2> i reset the security settings 17:04:14 <yorick> Amix: just get another router 17:04:18 <Amix2> then it worked 17:04:23 <yorick> oh ^^ 17:04:34 <yorick> consider upgrading the firmware 17:04:54 *** Amix [~Amix2008@cm-84.208.143.45.getinternet.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:07:51 <ln> royal danish Bjarni! 17:08:12 <Sacro> Bjarni! 17:08:21 <Bjarni> so now I' royal? 17:08:30 <Bjarni> well I guess that's one way of gaining power 17:08:35 <Bjarni> but it wasn't part of the plan 17:10:03 <Bjarni> from now on you should all call me "your highness" 17:10:51 *** nicfer [~nicfer@cm187107.red91-117.mundo-r.com] has joined #openttd 17:11:06 <Bjarni> and if you don't want to do that then you should blame ln- for starting this 17:12:48 *** Amix2 [~Amix2008@cm-84.208.143.45.getinternet.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:16:07 <ln> greetings from express train 928. 17:25:49 *** MDGrein [~MDGrein@c-e43472d5.02-56-736b7610.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 17:36:54 *** Pinchiukas [~lox@212.122.90.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:40:13 *** nicfer [~nicfer@cm187107.red91-117.mundo-r.com] has left #openttd [] 17:40:26 *** raimar2 [~hawk@p5489E833.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:42:27 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 17:44:13 *** Volley [~worf@84.119.67.68] has quit [] 17:45:35 *** raimar3 [~hawk@p5489E4FE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:56:12 *** nicfer [~nicfer@cm187107.red91-117.mundo-r.com] has joined #openttd 17:59:03 *** XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|bnc 18:02:36 <glx> yorick: what version of grfcodec did you use for your patch? 18:02:38 *** Xeryus|bnc is now known as XeryusTC 18:03:45 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 18:08:35 *** Wolfolo|AWAY [~wolf01@host81-237-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:08:35 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest2440 18:08:36 *** Wolfolo|AWAY is now known as Wolf01 18:10:46 *** Arie- [asdfsadf@villabadmuts.adsl.utwente.nl] has joined #openttd 18:15:33 *** Guest2440 [~wolf01@host186-62-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:16:32 *** a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-88-79.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: The ending changes tone & is actually quite sad - but it involves a scene of necrophilia, so that's just another plus in my book.....] 18:24:24 *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@a62-251-21-79.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:31:06 <jez9999> Bjarni: got a question for you about autoreplace 18:31:51 <jez9999> is there a particular reason you wrote the code to ignore the wagon list that can be returned back by BuildDepotVehicleList, thereby causing 'orphaned' trains (or chains of just wagons with no engine) not to get upgraded? 18:32:15 <jez9999> given that you can now auto upgrade wagons, it would seem to make sense to have the code upgrade everything 18:33:28 <Patrick`> the circumstances you'd want to do that, though ... 18:35:17 <jez9999> 'autoupgrade this depot' button? 18:35:24 <jez9999> there may be orphaned wagons on the wagon upgrade list 18:35:58 <Wolf01> devs, what about an abandoned roads feature like ttdpatch? 18:37:19 <Wolf01> I can't buy out the competitor because I don't have enough money, and he built a stupid road to nowhere with a nice loop at the end... just in the middle of a big junction 18:40:15 *** Arie^ [asdfsadf@villabadmuts.adsl.utwente.nl] has joined #openttd 18:42:03 *** Aerandir [magic.powe@90-230-201-111-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: - nbs-irc 2.36 - www.nbs-irc.net -] 18:43:33 *** divo [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 18:44:03 *** Arie- [asdfsadf@villabadmuts.adsl.utwente.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:44:06 <Patrick`> Wolf01: that's because the AI is retarded 18:45:00 <Patrick`> build around it, then buy it out 18:45:29 <Wolf01> if only it was so easy :P 18:45:37 *** a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-88-79.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 18:45:41 *** ooo4tom [~tom@92.3.42.163] has joined #openttd 18:49:44 *** ooo4tom [~tom@92.3.42.163] has quit [] 18:50:04 <Bjarni> jez9999: sounds like a bug to me :/ 18:50:18 <yorick> [19:02] <+glx> yorick: what version of grfcodec did you use for your patch? <-- there isn't a grf in there, is it? 18:50:39 <Rubidium> but there is a md5 checksum 18:50:57 <Bjarni> then again.... what would happen if autoreplace triggers on a row of wagons 18:50:59 <Rubidium> (that is changed and doesn't match) 18:51:08 <Bjarni> it's not designed to do that 18:51:25 <yorick> how do I check? 18:51:37 <Rubidium> try the help of grfcodec 18:51:44 <yorick> GRFCodec version 0.9.10 - Copyright (C) 2000-2005 by Josef Drexler 18:52:21 <jez9999> Bjarni: the code that does it is CmdDepotMassAutoReplace 18:52:29 <jez9999> i think that only happens when you click the 'upgrade depot' button 18:53:16 <Rubidium> yorick: that sounds quite old (as in containing bugs causing artefacts in OpenTTD) 18:53:22 <Wolf01> 7 minutes to retry the buyout of that AI 18:53:50 <Rubidium> "0.9.10 r1839" should not give those artefacts 18:54:00 <yorick> Rubidium: and as in: there are no newer binaries 18:54:07 <glx> compile yourself 18:54:13 <Wolf01> I never understood where the money used to purchase the shares go..." 18:55:43 <yorick> Can't modify constant item in scalar assignment at - line 1, at EOF 18:55:43 <yorick> Execution of - aborted due to compilation errors. 18:55:43 <yorick> make: *** [.rev] Error 255 18:56:49 <Rubidium> looks bad 18:57:14 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host81-237-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:57:34 <Rubidium> but DaleStan would probably love to help you with that ;) (or he might know a location with precompiled binaries that are not 1.5 years old) 18:57:38 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host246-234-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:57:40 <glx> I use make -f Makefile.win 18:57:51 <glx> with a patch ;) 18:57:52 <Bjarni> jez9999: autoreplace assumes that it's called for a locomotive. It would appear that something bad would happen if we just gave it a wagon instead 18:58:09 <yorick> gets stuck at [PERL] ttdpal.h 18:58:12 <jez9999> how hard would it be to fix that? 18:58:13 <DaleStan> yorick: Do you have svn and perl? 18:58:18 <jez9999> it would be mighty useful for my patch 18:58:20 <Bjarni> hard to say 18:58:23 <jez9999> and you might wanna upgrade wagons 18:58:57 <Bjarni> I will take a look tomorrow 18:59:01 <jez9999> k, cheers 18:59:07 <yorick> and /bin/sh: i686-pc-mingw-g++: command not found 18:59:26 <Bjarni> I have something which should be done by tomorrow... I better try to meet that deadline instead of replacing virtual trains 18:59:38 <Bjarni> (even though I want to do the latter a whole lot more) 19:00:07 <yorick> DaleStan: I do not have perl 19:00:11 <DaleStan> And what host? (Cygwin, MinGW/MSYS, Linux) 19:00:17 <yorick> MingW32 19:00:18 <glx> looks like msys 19:00:31 <DaleStan> Making GRFCodec requries Perl. 19:00:40 <yorick> I am not gonna get perl 19:00:45 <glx> http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/openttd/grfcodec_msys.diff <-- that's what I need for msys 19:01:23 * yorick copies perl over 19:01:36 <glx> just install activeperl 19:01:50 <yorick> I hate everything with Active before it 19:01:55 <yorick> it gets you teacup aswell 19:02:49 <Rubidium> :O glx yorick hates you (and me too) 19:03:02 <yorick> [PERL] ttdpal.h 19:03:02 <yorick> Can't locate strict.pm in @INC (@INC contains: .) at pal2c.pl line 3. 19:03:02 <yorick> BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at pal2c.pl line 3. 19:03:02 <yorick> make: *** [ttdpal.h] Error 19:03:29 <glx> perl.exe is not enough :) 19:03:37 <glx> you need all libs that comes with it 19:03:41 <yorick> I don't have anything else 19:03:45 <yorick> just plain perl.exe 19:06:18 <yorick> glx, can't you get me windows binary? 19:12:35 <yorick> heh, I hope openttd runs on http://aving.net/usa/news/default.asp?mode=read&c_num=77749&C_Code=01&SP_Num=0 19:14:35 <DaleStan> I suppose it is high time I post an update. 19:14:43 <yorick> thank you 19:15:14 <Patrick`> there's a windows CE port 19:15:21 <Patrick`> by some guy we're not affiliated with 19:15:27 <yorick> it runs winXP and linux QPlus ;) 19:15:33 <Patrick`> obviously the linux one will compile 19:21:21 *** Frostregen_ [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-164-087.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 19:27:03 *** Frostregen [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-177-183.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:27:31 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen 19:29:56 <yorick> glx: there you go, new checksums added 19:30:21 *** yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: and I quit] 19:35:03 *** egladil [~egladil@81-236-0-99-no61.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 19:40:29 *** icone [~dominik@acku112.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 19:40:33 <jez9999> erm 19:40:47 <jez9999> maybe im being dumb here, but why in c++ does a std::list pop() function not return a value? 19:41:49 <Noldo> it's easier to implement that way 19:42:10 <Noldo> use the top() or something like that to access the object you want 19:42:19 <ln> jez9999: see std::list documentation at sgi.com, it is explained somewhere there. 19:45:15 <jez9999> heh 19:45:25 <jez9999> easier to for the writer of std::list to implement? 19:45:40 <jez9999> i can really see the point of using OOP code there 19:45:53 <jez9999> no wonder C# is more popular 19:46:09 <SmatZ> this is OOP 19:46:12 <jez9999> c++: for(type_listOfNodes::iterator iter = m_listOfNodes.begin(); iter != m_listOfNodes.end(); iter++) 19:46:23 <jez9999> c#: foreach (string str in mylist) { str...; } 19:46:30 <jez9999> c++ is so goddamn retarded 19:46:41 <jez9999> the day it dies, i will be happy 19:46:59 <Bjarni> you have to wait that long to become happy? 19:47:03 <jez9999> happier 19:47:04 <jez9999> :-) 19:47:16 <jez9999> thing is, c++ put me off OOP for years 19:47:18 <SmatZ> you will never be happy 19:47:23 <jez9999> i came across java and C# and now i like oop 19:47:38 <jez9999> i never realised it was c++'s dumbassedness that put me off until i realised c# actually made sense 19:47:43 <Bjarni> I prefer C++ 19:47:58 <jez9999> madness. :-) 19:48:03 <Bjarni> no 19:48:06 <jez9999> it's frigging horrible 19:48:16 <Bjarni> it's because it's easy to mix with C if needed 19:48:22 <jez9999> erm 19:48:28 <jez9999> OOP and C should never mix. 19:48:37 <jez9999> OOP OR C, dont combine them 19:48:37 <Bjarni> and C has some nice features where you don't give away control 19:48:48 <jez9999> features not needed in and end-user application. 19:48:48 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F55C10.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 19:49:04 <stillunknown> It's a matter of preference. 19:49:11 <ln> Bjarni: kick him for insulting C++ 19:49:13 <Bjarni> I think you missed what I meant 19:49:30 <jez9999> so is preferring to eat chocolate or shit, but one preference is more common and sensible ;-) 19:49:54 <Bjarni> then why do you pick the other one??? 19:49:58 <jez9999> ln: hey, ottd may yet be rewritten in c# 19:49:59 <jez9999> :-) 19:50:05 <Rubidium> LOL 19:50:10 <stillunknown> I find that unlikely. 19:50:27 <jez9999> yeah, me too. but it makes it harder to hack. 19:50:34 <jez9999> still, at least it aint Mozilla. 19:50:42 <jez9999> they invented Mozilla-c++, and it's 100 times worse than c++ 19:50:43 <ln> jez9999: it also may yet be rewritten in qbasic. 19:51:07 <Bjarni> what's so great about Mozilla-C++? 19:51:34 <jez9999> SomeRandomDataStructureICameUpWithYesterday.Implements(SomeInterfaceIThinkTheNameIsAmbiguous).doThings->iLikeChocolate.stuff 19:51:43 <jez9999> i said it's worse 19:52:10 <jez9999> (&somethinghere, *somethingthere, something::everywhere) 19:52:11 <Bjarni> I bet it has some nice feature somewhere or they wouldn't have bothered 19:52:21 <ln> jez9999: that's Java 19:52:22 <stillunknown> That's still C++, maybe not using stdlib. 19:52:28 <jez9999> yeah; trouble is you have to learn a new, very ugly language, to begin to hack it 19:52:28 <Patrick`> mmm, quick basic 19:52:33 <jez9999> it's a pretty terrible idea IMHO 19:52:33 <Patrick`> rewrite it in python 19:52:37 <Patrick`> for speed 19:52:41 <SmatZ> :D 19:52:42 *** helb [~helb@62.240.176.23] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:52:43 <ln> Patrick`: quick basic is not qbasic. 19:52:44 <Patrick`> or ruby 19:53:17 <Patrick`> run it in a c emulator written in procedurally-generated ruby 19:53:17 <jez9999> i cant believe that std::list implementation. :-) it's actually funny 19:53:17 *** helb [~helb@62.240.176.23] has joined #openttd 19:53:17 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78.107.164.102] has joined #openttd 19:53:23 <jez9999> you people just like incredibly convoluted and disgusting syntax, dont you? 19:53:34 <jez9999> simple stuff looks too VBish, you can stand it 19:54:20 <Rubidium> makes me think about the really ugly stuff I had to do to get something working in C# 19:54:30 <Bjarni> newsflash: OpenTTD is C++, not some weird language you want it to be... live with it 19:54:52 <jez9999> void std::list<typename>::func(const _Ty &_Val) 19:54:53 <Rubidium> it actually involved using C++ 19:54:53 <jez9999> ugh! 19:55:09 <Patrick`> we should rewrite in a mixture of lisp and COBOL 19:55:20 * Bjarni slaps Patrick` 19:55:21 <Rubidium> COBOL sounds like a good idea! 19:55:41 <Rubidium> being a COBOL programmer gets you quite a bit of money every month... 19:55:54 <jez9999> they pay you to stay away 19:56:09 <Bjarni> hehe... one guy once told me he wanted to code in Kobold (I think he mishead something somewhere) 19:56:19 <jez9999> lol 19:56:27 <Bjarni> *misheard 19:56:36 <jez9999> when, 80s? 19:56:43 <SpComb> all the OpenTTD code that I write is pure C 19:56:47 <Bjarni> 90s 19:56:51 <jez9999> see i dont mind pure C 19:57:00 <SpComb> well, actually not, it's C with MallocT<struct foobar>(1); mixed in 19:57:00 <jez9999> because it doesnt have some guy's disgusting syntactic hacks on top of it 19:57:07 <ln> jez9999: English, please. 19:57:14 <jez9999> what? 19:57:17 <ln> jez9999: that is, with apostrophes. 19:57:25 <jez9999> is ln a bot? 19:57:29 <Bjarni> yes 19:57:31 <Patrick`> yes. 19:57:33 <jez9999> mm 19:57:34 * SpComb has managed to avoid C++ so far 19:57:35 <Patrick`> wait, really? 19:57:41 <SpComb> I've heard a lot of bad things about it 19:57:45 <Rubidium> jez9999: and C# is better in what way? That you need C++ to be able to talk to devices on a low level? 19:57:50 <jez9999> SpComb: dont learn c++, learn c# 19:57:56 <jez9999> it's OOP, implemented properly 19:58:02 <SpComb> no, I'm not going to learn C# either 19:58:04 <Patrick`> SpComb: it's the definitive archetypal OO language from which all syntax flows 19:58:06 <ln> jez9999: and it's Microsoft-only 19:58:09 * SpComb does C, Python and JavaScript 19:58:10 <Patrick`> everyone is a descendant of C++ 19:58:15 <Patrick`> SpComb: python, good call 19:58:19 <ln> jez9999: AND USE THOSE APOSTROPHES 19:58:20 <jez9999> ln: you're not Turing-complete 19:58:23 <Prof_Frink> SpComb: Don't learn C#, you already know python 19:58:27 <Noldo> syntax isn't everything 19:58:37 <Rubidium> anyhow... C# is not pure OO (neither is Java though)... 19:58:46 <Patrick`> nothing's pure oo 19:58:47 <SpComb> indeed, I actively avoid C#, in fact 19:58:50 <Patrick`> apart possibly from java 19:58:51 <ln> jez9999: errr.... you probably don't know what Turing-complete means then. 19:58:55 <SpComb> anti-Micrsoft bias 19:58:55 <Bjarni> C++ works well and fast on nearly all platforms... I have yet to see the same for other OOP 19:58:57 <Patrick`> yes, let's use java 19:59:03 <Patrick`> ln: what's two plus two? 19:59:09 <jez9999> ln: licks in Asia rather quickly turn to blue stone 19:59:33 <Bjarni> Patrick`: it's true :D 19:59:39 <jez9999> Bjarni: so does assembly. 19:59:51 <Bjarni> no 19:59:53 <Noldo> jez9999: really? 19:59:59 <jez9999> runs fast :-) 20:00:06 <Patrick`> FORTRAN 20:00:07 <ln> Patrick`: depends on the definition of "is", i.e. we must first find out whether this world exists or is only in your imagination. 20:00:16 <Patrick`> ln: see, you're not turing complete. 20:00:21 <Bjarni> jez9999: have you seen ASM that works on nearly all platforms? 20:00:37 <Patrick`> addition can be emulated by a complex series of linguistic loopholes and trash talking, but the operation fails 55% of the time 20:00:37 <Noldo> wehee! language wars! how about editors next? 20:00:46 <SpComb> the only really annoying thing that I've run into in C is const pointer arrays 20:00:47 <Patrick`> Noldo: no need, everyone knows that emacs is the best 20:01:07 <jez9999> needing stuff to work on 'nearly all platforms' is a bit of a problem. one which i would fail to solve, if it means having a significantly nicer language to work with. 20:01:10 <icone> I had stayed in Java for several years, but now I finally learned my C 20:01:13 <SpComb> "const *struct sockaddr_storage[ADDR_COUNT]" or somesuch, they're slightly weird 20:01:25 <icone> I got to tell you, it has some goddamn elegance, C 20:01:56 <jez9999> c# works on some platforms actually 20:02:07 <jez9999> 'nearly all platforms' is overrated 20:02:13 <Patrick`> what was the quote 20:02:13 <Rubidium> jez9999: but not getting the job done in C# quite sucks... (as I said before, I needed C++ to solve some things that couldn't be solved in C#) 20:02:14 <jez9999> for an end-user app 20:02:21 <Patrick`> programming in c is like sending a three year old to the shops 20:02:25 <jez9999> Rubidium: im betting one of them wasnt OpenTTD 20:02:38 <Patrick`> you gotta tell it exactly what to do or you'll end up with a pantry full of lollipops and molten icecream 20:02:42 <jez9999> Patrick`: curious analogy 20:02:53 <Patrick`> jez9999: it's from bash 20:02:54 <Rubidium> does C# work on the most used OS? 20:03:07 <jez9999> afaik, yes 20:03:18 <jez9999> MSIL can be executed by Mono 20:03:20 * icone whimpers and walks away (what's with those lang wars, anyway?) 20:03:27 <SpComb> F-spot is written in C#, iirc 20:03:31 <SpComb> ships with ubuntu by default 20:04:29 <jez9999> hmm not sure whether Eclipse has a c# module though, does it? 20:04:47 <Rubidium> jez9999: I couldn't find any references that C# works on Tron 20:04:52 <jez9999> doesnt matter, where i work we're being forced down the MS path anyway :-( we have this one guy who is a programmer-cum-MS sales rep 20:05:18 <jez9999> pretty much no way to counter that 20:05:28 <SpComb> unfortunate accident? 20:05:32 <jez9999> :-) 20:05:33 <SpComb> xkcd comics? 20:05:53 <jez9999> the idiots 20:05:58 <jez9999> i spent weeks working on a project 20:06:10 <jez9999> this weekend, they just switched the source control over from SVN to TFS ithout any notice to me 20:06:24 <jez9999> so they could quickly do easier unit testing and upgrde to VS2008 to use some of MS's AJAX stuff 20:06:28 <jez9999> i got really annoyed 20:08:25 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:09:47 <SpComb> hrh 20:11:07 <Rubidium> but TFS must be better because it's (more likely) to be written in C# than C++, you should only applaude such swift actions to stop the spread of C++ written applications! 20:11:32 *** Aerandir [magic.powe@90-230-201-111-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 20:14:10 <jez9999> if TFS was OSS, i would. :-) 20:14:29 <jez9999> it's pay-microsoft-your-wages-please-ware 20:17:53 <Rubidium> so is most associated with C# too 20:18:25 <jez9999> not really 20:18:29 <SpComb> it would suck to be an OSS-type in a micrsoft-shop 20:18:37 <jez9999> yeah but in the UK you have little choice 20:18:58 <jez9999> i thought this company might be different and it was when i joined 6 months ago, but this MS guy has basically convinced most people to go with MS for stuff 20:19:05 <jez9999> we're gonna buy a Sharepoint server (yay) and exchange 20:19:07 <jez9999> more money to MS 20:19:09 <DaleStan> Belugas: I believe you said that you were discussing alternative ways to feed extra stack data to CB37 strings? Did you find that discussion? 20:19:15 <jez9999> it's like, "we're paying MS loads, why not pay some more?" 20:19:21 <SpComb> my sympathies 20:20:32 <Rubidium> jez9999: you got to love the pointer magic you can do in C# too, don't you? Makes it immediatelly virtually impossible to use it on websites and such though... 20:21:25 <jez9999> why would i love it? 20:21:42 <jez9999> a few things about C# get to me, lack of pointer magic isnt one of them, 20:22:02 * SpComb wonders what Rubidium is on about 20:22:05 <jez9999> i wish it would do a few more implicit conversions. being able to say "if (int) {}" would be nice 20:22:22 <jez9999> but basically c# makes OOP manageable 20:22:29 <jez9999> c++ makes it look like line noise 20:22:31 <Rubidium> a language promoted as not having any problems with memory leaks and the like, but then you find out about the magic world or unsafe expressions... 20:23:17 <ln> end of discussion 20:24:29 <jez9999> ln: leave #openttd 20:24:51 *** Gekz [~brendan@121.218.49.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:25:01 <peter1138> Hello 20:25:07 <jez9999> hi 20:25:24 <ln> jez9999: no. 20:25:44 <jez9999> ln: i know you're a bot 20:26:03 <Rubidium> ln: `/ignore jez9999` would make it a monologue 20:27:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r12406 /extra/ottd_grf/split/ (flags.nfo flags.pcx): -Change [FS#1866]: add more flags 20:29:04 <jez9999> ohh 20:29:12 <jez9999> i just thought of one good thing c++ introduced! 20:29:18 <jez9999> // comments 20:29:41 <stillunknown> That's in C99 too. 20:30:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r12407 /trunk/ (8 files in 6 dirs): -Add [FS#1866]: more language flags for servers 20:30:50 <stillunknown> Personally i prefer /* */ comments. 20:31:37 <peter1138> So do we. 20:31:49 <SpComb> depends on what's in the comments 20:33:50 <jez9999> MS implemented quite a nice thing where you can do /// comments before a method 20:34:02 <jez9999> it autogenerates some XML there so you can document the method 20:34:12 <ln> jez9999: err.. 20:34:19 <ln> sounds a lot like javadoc behavior. 20:34:20 <jez9999> and of course because it's c# and not c++ there's only one place for the function signature (no header files) so it's in the right place 20:34:34 <glx> headers are nice 20:35:16 <jez9999> heh 20:35:20 <jez9999> we very much disagree on that 20:35:30 <jez9999> they're 100% redundant, usually 20:35:38 <glx> but nobody forces to use them 20:36:18 <glx> and they are not redundant, they are used to split implementation from interface 20:36:54 <Rubidium> that's why C# is so much liked by people who do not care about proper design... 20:37:06 <glx> if someone wants to use a lib you written you give it the headers and you can keep the implementation hidden 20:37:20 <jez9999> you can do that in c# too 20:37:33 <jez9999> metadata is included in compiled files 20:37:53 <jez9999> try linking in a dll with your code, VS can show you all the class's interfaces 20:38:12 *** planetmaker [~chatzilla@Fcf1b.f.ppp-pool.de] has quit [Quit: Good bye!] 20:39:54 <Rubidium> which is kinda useless as it doesn't contain *any* documentation about how to use the functions 20:42:47 <peter1138> MS' documentation usually consists of function parameters, and not a lot else. 20:43:01 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F55C10.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:43:17 <hylje> that's not documentation, that's reference 20:45:41 <Rubidium> yes, they're hard trying to reduce the increment in size of their 'documentation'. The less new stuff is included, the better. 20:47:56 <stillunknown> I prefer working with code for which i can check the implementation as well. 20:50:38 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A473D5.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 20:51:02 *** Tekky_ [~chatzilla@p5493E283.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:53:07 <jez9999> Rubidium: except that it *does* if you've done the /// comment XML thing i spoke about before 20:55:04 * Rubidium ponders testing that... let's find out how to cross-compile a dll on unix from C with some /// comment XML in there... 20:55:55 <Rubidium> oops... 90+% of the DLLs don't have that as it didn't exist when they were made. That's disappointing. 20:56:41 *** Tekky [~chatzilla@p5493C67F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:56:50 <Rubidium> then again, XML for comments is like XML for writing code or XML for saving an OTTD savegame (if you use XML in the way it's supposed to be used) 20:56:55 *** Tekky_ is now known as Tekky 20:59:03 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 20:59:20 <henkie> when a factory doesnt accept my lumber, is that a bug, or am i doing something wrong? :) 20:59:34 <ln> or both! 20:59:39 *** Guest2089 [~hylje@members.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: ZNC by prozac - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 21:00:23 <henkie> that not very helpful :) 21:00:26 <henkie> +is 21:01:28 <jez9999> i thought sawmills accepted lumber 21:03:03 <peter1138> Sawmills accept wood. 21:05:07 <Rubidium> lumber would mean he uses some NewIndustries/NewCargos NewGRF. 21:07:02 *** icone_ [~dominik@acmm65.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 21:13:23 *** neo_ [~chatzilla@p54925626.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:13:28 *** icone [~dominik@acku112.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:15:28 *** FloSoft [~sifldoer@e179203024.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: computer has gone to sleep] 21:17:06 *** neo_ [~chatzilla@p54925626.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 21:17:34 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-108-75.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 21:18:39 *** divo [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 21:20:30 *** Zahl [~Zahl@p549F22C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: (~_~]"] 21:20:47 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:23:52 *** MarkAway is now known as Mark 21:24:20 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd 21:26:36 <henkie> yeah, prob. some bug, when i built the new factory it says it will accept steel lumber and plastic 21:26:56 <henkie> but when i build a station, it only accepts wood and steel 21:27:25 <glx> mixing different newindustry grfs? 21:29:08 <Patrick`> hmm 21:29:09 <henkie> i only see pikka's newindustries v1.2 21:29:26 <henkie> hmm, and opengfx 21:29:36 <Patrick`> we can imagine that different goods inbound produces different goods outbound 21:29:52 <henkie> opengfx newindustries v0.5 21:30:04 <Patrick`> for example: livestock + steel = mecha cows 21:30:18 <henkie> yes, but the goods that must be supplied to the factory are not accepted at the station 21:30:51 <henkie> how do i make a screenshot? 21:30:58 <glx> ctrl-s 21:31:45 <Patrick`> how i mine for fish? 21:32:09 <Prof_Frink> Patrick`: Never heard of dynamite fishing? 21:32:27 <Patrick`> how do I shot web? 21:32:39 <henkie> http://130.89.163.214/misc/openttd.png 21:32:47 <glx> Patrick`: using newcargo? 21:33:23 <Patrick`> haha, fish 21:33:25 <Prof_Frink> Patrick`: Step 1: Get bitten by a radioactive spider 21:33:35 <Patrick`> glx: it was a joke quote 21:33:36 <Patrick`> :) 21:33:44 *** Digitalfox_ [~Digitalfo@bl10-67-5.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 21:34:03 <glx> henkie: that looks like a grf conflict 21:34:04 <henkie> i can also make a screenshot of my newgrf settings if that might help 21:34:28 <henkie> ah, one overruling the other? 21:36:01 <henkie> ok, when i move newindustries above the other it does seem to work 21:37:42 <henkie> tnx 21:39:05 *** Sacro` [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 21:39:13 *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:40:06 *** Digitalfox [~Digitalfo@bl7-185-94.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:40:57 *** Sacro` is now known as Sacro 21:46:58 *** dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5499EDDB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: dR3x4cK] 21:48:23 *** Slowpoke [~Lobster@dslb-088-073-194-202.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:55:10 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BD2A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:50 <Eddi|zuHause3> urgs... sharp turns... very ugly 22:04:48 <Wolf01> 'night 22:05:06 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host246-234-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:08:17 <jez9999> hmm 22:08:24 <jez9999> why would you call DoCommandP instead of DoCommand? 22:08:40 <glx> because one is network safe 22:09:04 *** Leviath [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 22:09:44 <Eddi|zuHause3> one is for user initiated commands that are sent over the network, the other is for program initiated commands, that do not need to be sent over the network, because they happen on all clients synchronously 22:11:14 <jez9999> hmmmmmmm 22:11:24 <jez9999> i have one command that is calling another command 22:11:32 <jez9999> as it's in a chain the first needs to determine the second's cost 22:11:43 <jez9999> it can only do that with DoCommand as that returns a CommandCost 22:11:48 <jez9999> but it might not be network safe? 22:12:08 <Bjarni> getting costs only should be network safe as nothing happens 22:12:22 <jez9999> hmm ok and another thing 22:12:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> only the very first command must be network synchronised, all following commands automatically are 22:12:29 <Bjarni> you just get a number... you don't alter vehicle orders, the map or anything 22:12:56 <jez9999> is there any way i can get command 1 to report that it will cost x, where x is determined by adding the costs of several command 2s, but 22:13:06 <jez9999> the cost animation for command 2 is displayed seperately? 22:13:23 <SmatZ> if it is directly called because of user action (that is, from GUI), use DoCommandP - else use DoCommand (AI calls, recursive DoCommand calls, town calls....) 22:13:31 <Bjarni> autoreplace deals with this issue 22:13:38 <jez9999> ? 22:13:43 <Bjarni> but I can't tell if you can do the same 22:13:52 <Bjarni> it depends on how you call the first function 22:14:00 <jez9999> it's the track conversion tool 22:14:10 <jez9999> i want one anim for the track costs, and one anim per depot autoreplace 22:14:21 <jez9999> tough to see how i can do it as it displays the CommandCost i return 22:14:28 <jez9999> but that has to include the cost of upgrading the trains 22:14:59 <Bjarni> well 22:15:15 <Bjarni> I guess you call one command that will then call other commands 22:15:18 *** thgerg1 [~Administr@dsl51B789D8.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 22:15:31 <SmatZ> I think it is not possible - you can have only 1 "floating money" for 1 DoCommandP, that is for 1 user action 22:15:39 <Bjarni> since it would be advisable to get the first one synced then the problem is gone 22:15:42 <jez9999> i need a way to say "if the player can afford this CommandCost, run this command 22:15:53 <Bjarni> hmm 22:16:01 <SmatZ> jez9999: call it without DC_EXEC even in the exec run 22:16:03 <Bjarni> wait you want for both the track and then one for each depot? 22:16:06 <jez9999> SmatZ: not if command 1 calls DoCommandP itself 22:16:09 <jez9999> you can have several 22:16:11 <SmatZ> and if he has enough money, call it with DC_EXEC 22:16:23 <jez9999> yes 22:16:29 <Bjarni> tricky 22:16:32 <jez9999> yup. 22:16:45 <jez9999> although if i could say 'test whether the player has the money for this CommandCost' i can do it 22:16:47 <Bjarni> it's not how the command system is intended to be used 22:16:57 <jez9999> it will simply go thru the list of depots, and try and convert them 1 by 1 22:17:02 <jez9999> if it cant do it it ignores the depot 22:17:11 <jez9999> but i want to test it first as i dont want it half-converting the depot 22:17:18 <Bjarni> I'm not sure it's possible 22:17:30 <jez9999> but i can get the CommandCost 22:17:37 <Bjarni> I know 22:17:51 <Bjarni> you can display on each depot without any problems 22:18:14 <Bjarni> but the place where you get the total costs will display the total costs including the depot costs 22:18:31 <Bjarni> which would be incorrect since you want them to turn up elsewhere 22:18:31 <jez9999> for the total costs of the track conversion, i dont want to include the depot costs 22:18:45 <jez9999> basically the code says 'treat track and empty depots as normal track; add up their costs' 22:18:54 *** Leviath [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:56 <Bjarni> I get the idea 22:18:56 <jez9999> 'then for each depot with trains, try one-by-one to convert the trains and depot' 22:19:05 <Bjarni> but the command handling system don't 22:19:08 *** thgergo [~Administr@dsl5402B358.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:19:09 <jez9999> the track cost is added to the CommandCost for the convert command, the autoreplace cost takes care of itself 22:19:31 <jez9999> it's true that i only need a method of determining whether a player can afford to do a command, isnt it? 22:19:40 <Bjarni> err 22:19:47 <Bjarni> I just noticed one other issue 22:19:55 <Bjarni> one of greater concern than cost animation 22:20:04 <Bjarni> how will you get autoreplace to work? 22:20:08 <jez9999> how? 22:20:20 <Bjarni> I mean say you convert from rail to monorail 22:20:32 <Bjarni> how will you know the price? 22:20:43 <jez9999> of the autoconversion? 22:20:49 <jez9999> i was assuming DoCommand would return me a price 22:21:07 <Bjarni> if you run autoreplace then it will fail because monorail isn't buildable in the depot 22:21:22 <jez9999> really? hehe i already got that part working 22:21:26 <Bjarni> o_O 22:21:28 <SmatZ> CMD_CONVERT_RAIL can be put back to set of commands that can have different test and exec runs... 22:21:35 <jez9999> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=36710&sid=15e34e8069133091c726d60076672657 22:21:44 <SmatZ> jez9999: is it your patch at FS? 22:21:56 <jez9999> Bjarni: ohh i see, if i havent changed the track it will fail 22:22:10 <jez9999> how about i change the track, run autoconvert, then change it back if you cant afford it :-) 22:22:34 <glx> SmatZ: no 22:22:36 <SmatZ> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1859 this one 22:22:37 <SmatZ> hmm 22:23:44 <jez9999> "things such as 22:23:44 <jez9999> service history and custom train names are not preserved 22:23:46 <jez9999> yuk. 22:24:25 <Bjarni> jez9999: new issue (I think it's only matters with newGRF). Currently autoreplace builds a vehicle, adds it to the train and then it will get rid of the old one. This means that the new and old one will be connected for a short time (the user will not see this) 22:24:32 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz 22:24:33 <Bjarni> you connect normal rail to a monorail train 22:24:53 <Bjarni> I bet some newGRF will really hate that 22:24:58 <jez9999> newgrf sux :-) 22:25:03 <jez9999> i always play with oldgrf 22:25:20 <SmatZ> :) 22:25:24 <Bjarni> the default vehicles will most likely not care at all 22:25:25 <jez9999> cant you create a train, copy the other one's info, then kill the old one? 22:25:44 <Bjarni> because nobody thought of putting more than one type in the same depot 22:26:22 <Bjarni> <jez9999> cant you create a train, copy the other one's info, then kill the old one? <-- easier said than done. I have an idea but it turned out to take ages to code :( 22:26:59 <jez9999> curious that guy submitted that to flysprap almost the same time i started coding my patch 22:27:00 <jez9999> heh 22:27:03 <jez9999> *spray 22:27:40 *** maad [~maad@82.160.115.202] has joined #openttd 22:28:14 <jez9999> he based it on cloning, i based it on using the autoreplace code 22:28:43 <jez9999> luckily at some point someone changed the code so that if you change a train's railtype underneath it to something incompatible it just stops with 'no power' 22:28:50 <jez9999> i seem to recall it used to instantly crash the train 22:28:58 <jez9999> however this behaviour lets you change the track type then upgrade the train 22:29:04 <jez9999> just need a reliable way to upgrade the train 22:29:05 *** Leviath [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 22:29:48 <jez9999> Bjarni: anyway i was kinda relying on you or someone improving the autoreplace code to fix my patch :-) 22:29:58 <jez9999> it's leaning heavily on other code 22:30:14 <jez9999> but for now i can just not care about newGRF difficulties, so back to calculating cost... can i do it for autoreplace? 22:30:33 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BD2A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:33:43 <Bjarni> <jez9999> Bjarni: anyway i was kinda relying on you or someone improving the autoreplace code to fix my patch :-) <--- hehe 22:33:55 <Bjarni> I hope you are patient 22:34:10 <Bjarni> I mean it will take a while to get it fully working with what you want it to do 22:34:36 <jez9999> well not for the default grf 22:34:39 <jez9999> maybe with newgrf 22:35:09 <jez9999> best to get it implemented with oldgrf quickly, submit it to forum and flyspray so people can muck around with it and see if we can get it playing nicely with autoreplace 22:35:09 <Bjarni> step one: allow wagons only replacement 22:35:13 <jez9999> than maybe it could go in trunk :-D 22:35:29 <jez9999> yeah, well that shouldnt be too hard 22:35:35 <Bjarni> step two: ensure that the mass autoreplace command can tell if it can replace everything 22:35:49 <Bjarni> (you don't want to replace 2/3 of the trains and then say it's ok) 22:35:52 <jez9999> you just have to not ignore the last 3 params from BuildDepotVehicleList 22:36:01 <Bjarni> I don't have an ETA on when this will work :/ 22:36:03 <jez9999> Bjarni: step 2 is why im asking about getting CommandCost 22:36:09 <Bjarni> no 22:36:15 <jez9999> if i can determine that the cost is too high i dont do the autoreplace 22:36:29 <jez9999> my current patch has that problem 22:36:45 <Bjarni> because if I recall correctly it can replace train A and not B and then return the costs for train A only 22:36:48 <Bjarni> ignoring B 22:36:52 <jez9999> can it? bugger 22:36:59 <jez9999> what idiot coded autoreplace? 22:37:00 <jez9999> :-) 22:37:24 <Bjarni> it makes sense when you aren't considering railtype 22:37:36 *** Brianetta [~brian@77-103-231-158.cable.ubr05.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:37:37 <Bjarni> imagine you have 10 trains in the depot and you have money to convert 9 of them 22:37:43 <jez9999> still if i code it *as if* your stuff did that the way i want, autoreplace can be changed later 22:37:52 <Bjarni> then it would make sense to replace 9 instead of failing 22:38:07 <glx> <jez9999> what idiot coded autoreplace? <-- well Bjarni did every autoreplace versions :) 22:38:17 <jez9999> glc: i know 22:38:23 <Bjarni> glc? 22:38:25 <Bjarni> :P 22:38:30 <jez9999> maybe CmdDepotMassAutoReplace can use p2 to take a bitfield, one can be 'determine cost for entire autoreplace' 22:38:34 <jez9999> glx 22:38:41 <Bjarni> glx: this time the problem isn't autoreplace, it's jez9999 22:38:51 <Bjarni> he wants it to do something it's not designed to do 22:39:02 <glx> autoreplace has at least 2 reported bugs 22:39:06 <Bjarni> it can be modified to do so though 22:39:16 <jez9999> it comes close to doing it already though, i'd say it's the closest feature to being upgradable to do what is needed 22:39:44 <jez9999> i can put some comments into the patch to say 'in future, autoreplace needs to do x y and z for this to work' 22:39:55 <jez9999> im just trying to code it now as if autoreplace worked perfectly 22:40:15 <jez9999> i might even try and fix autoreplace after this patch heh 22:40:31 <Bjarni> I will likely have to add a flag (single bit) in p1/p2 in the mass autoreplace command 22:40:36 <Bjarni> and you will need to set it 22:40:42 <jez9999> yeah, 'determine cost for entire autoreplace' 22:40:45 <Bjarni> but that's it 22:40:58 <Bjarni> <jez9999> yeah, 'determine cost for entire autoreplace' <-- no 22:41:13 <Bjarni> "all or nothing" 22:41:18 <jez9999> right 22:41:36 <jez9999> there's that, and the ability to replace a vehicle by creating a new one and copying old info 22:41:40 <jez9999> not modifying an old vehicle 22:41:53 <jez9999> that said newgrf may whinge about all sorts of stuff, like incompatible cargo 22:42:01 <jez9999> frankly im not sure worrying about stupid newgrf rules is a priority 22:42:07 <jez9999> whats wrong with carrying cows on a maglev anyway 22:42:38 <Bjarni> the cows might not like getting electrified :P 22:42:49 <jez9999> on a maglev? :-) 22:42:53 <jez9999> it's magnetic 22:43:08 <Bjarni> or to be placed either in a car without ventilation or in a really windy car 22:43:14 <jez9999> anyway 22:43:23 <jez9999> for now i can catch the CommandCost for current autoreplace 22:43:29 <jez9999> it's not 'all or nothing' but it can be adapted later 22:43:31 <Bjarni> <jez9999> it's magnetic <-- with one hell of a magnetic field flux 22:43:42 <jez9999> how do i catch that cost, and determine whether the player can afford it? 22:43:53 <jez9999> well i know how to catch it 22:43:55 <jez9999> but not determine 22:45:04 <Bjarni> you need to trigger the flag DC_QUERY_COST 22:45:28 <jez9999> yes that gives me the cost 22:45:31 <jez9999> my code basically says 22:45:42 <jez9999> foreach depot, get the cost for an upgrade. if player can afford it, upgrade. 22:45:49 <jez9999> the bit i cant do is "if player can afford it" 22:45:56 <Bjarni> the question is... how do we set it? :) 22:46:00 <jez9999> set what? 22:46:07 <Bjarni> DC_QUERY_COST 22:46:19 <jez9999> it seems your code only replaces if you specify the DC_EXEC flag 22:46:22 <jez9999> unless i read it wrong 22:47:02 <Bjarni> yeah 22:47:07 <jez9999> ret = MaybeReplaceVehicle(v, !(flags & DC_EXEC), false); 22:47:20 <Bjarni> don't look at that part of the code 22:47:28 <Bjarni> that's not the interesting part 22:47:53 <jez9999> i dont know why there is a DC_QUERY_COST actually 22:48:05 <jez9999> isnt that implied if (!flags & DC_EXEC) ? 22:48:16 <jez9999> !( rather 22:48:49 *** Digitalfox_ [~Digitalfo@bl10-67-5.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:49:17 <Bjarni> hmm 22:49:54 <glx> no it's another flag 22:50:27 <SmatZ> [23:47:55] <jez9999> i dont know why there is a DC_QUERY_COST actually 22:50:31 <Bjarni> you are right. I never check for DC_QUERY_COST 22:50:36 <SmatZ> I am interested in it, too :) 22:50:47 <Bjarni> because in this specific case it would appear that it's not needed 22:50:49 <jez9999> but you do return a cost only if EXEC isnt set 22:51:04 <Bjarni> but DC_EXEC and DC_QUERY_COST would never be set at the same time 22:51:10 <glx> DC_QUERY_COST is usually used when shift is pressed 22:52:16 <jez9999> i'll probably pass it for good measure 22:52:35 <jez9999> oh i see what you mean with the 'all or nothing' 22:52:39 <jez9999> i dont need to query the cost. 22:52:55 <jez9999> your code determines whether the replacement is done 22:52:55 <jez9999> hmm 22:53:06 <jez9999> there's another problem 22:53:18 <jez9999> say i convert 10 pieces of track, then start upgrading depots 22:53:30 <jez9999> the cmdconvertrail has added up that 10 track cost, but then a depot is upgraded 22:53:45 <jez9999> say that depot upgrade cost means you no longer have the money to upgrade those 10 pieces of track 22:53:55 <jez9999> that means the depot is upgraded but not the track, i'd want it the other way around 22:54:02 <jez9999> so i think my code does still need to check for the cost 22:54:25 <jez9999> basically if (track_upgrade_cost + depot_upgrade cost is too expensive), dont upgrade depot 22:55:15 <Bjarni> if you call DoCommand() and set flags to flags(from the arguments in the command you write this in) then during the test run it will give you the costs and when afterwards when DC_EXEC is set for the main function (this will only happen if there is no errors at all) then the replacement will go ahead 22:55:21 <Bjarni> that should do it 22:55:34 <Bjarni> there is no reason to make it more complex than needed 22:56:20 <jez9999> well a) that means there is only 1 cost animation 22:56:20 <SmatZ> Bjarni: will it work if you are converting 10 depots, but you have money to convert only one? 22:56:38 <jez9999> and b) it won't work because autoreplace will say "here's the cost to upgrade 5 trains of the 8 in the depot, have a nice day" 22:57:08 <Bjarni> SmatZ: yes if but only if he codes it like he already said he will 22:57:22 <Bjarni> he combines the total costs and return them in the main command 22:57:31 <jez9999> i specifically want it to convert as many depots as possible, but leave the ones it cant afford 22:57:52 <jez9999> almost a different function from the track upgrading, just done after the track upgrading 22:58:11 <Bjarni> ohh 22:58:17 <Bjarni> new idea 22:58:22 <SmatZ> ohhh! :) 22:58:26 <jez9999> otherwise you're dragging the track converter tool over a complex section of track, and no track is upgraded because it cant afford 1 depot 22:58:37 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78.107.164.102] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:58:50 <Bjarni> make a function to convert rails (but not depots) 22:59:12 <Bjarni> it might be possible to reuse the current function for this and then add a "skip depots" button 22:59:30 <Bjarni> and write a callback function for this 22:59:30 <Patrick`> um 22:59:45 <Bjarni> and the callback function will then try to take care of depots 22:59:55 <Patrick`> is this specifically for, e.g. autoupgrading deisel to electric? 23:00:00 <jez9999> isnt that similar to what im doing at the moment? 23:00:04 * SmatZ is looking forward for 50 commands sent over network when converting larger area :) 23:00:05 <Patrick`> because upgrading trains from, say, monorail to maglev 23:00:16 <Patrick`> that's basically a "play the game for me" button 23:00:16 <jez9999> or do you mean that by the time the callback func is called, the track conversion money is already taken? 23:00:39 <jez9999> Patrick`: no, it's a "make the game something other than utterly tedious for me" ;-) 23:00:49 <jez9999> manual conversion of 100 trains is bloody awful 23:00:51 <Patrick`> bhmm 23:00:52 <Bjarni> a callback function is called when the original function is done and it worked 23:01:03 <Patrick`> I do admit that I just move to a new area of the map when a new railtype is out 23:01:09 <Patrick`> or just start with maglev ;) 23:01:18 <SmatZ> Bjarni: isn't there an intention to reduce number of commands sent over network? 23:01:31 <jez9999> Bjarni: mmhmm, so it successfulyl converts the track then goes for the depots. how does that work with the cost estimatio? 23:01:34 <Bjarni> one for tracks and one for depots 23:01:39 <Patrick`> for example, "convert this area" is sent as one command 23:01:42 <Bjarni> I think we can live with two 23:01:57 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:11 <Bjarni> but I reject a patch sending more than that 23:02:13 <jez9999> Bjarni: im guessing that for the purposes of this excercise, empty depots are 'track'. ive already basically modified the autoconvert code to do that 23:02:31 <Bjarni> that sounds reasonable 23:02:42 <jez9999> how does that work with cost estimation? 23:03:00 <jez9999> when you cost estimate it should probably include the autoreplace cost 23:03:31 <Bjarni> it will not include the callback costs 23:04:02 <jez9999> mmm 23:04:17 <jez9999> so the code needs to manually call the callback func IF you're querying 23:05:46 <Bjarni> if I recall correctly (this needs to be verified) then it will do the command like there is no callback and if the command works then it will call the callback 23:06:03 <Bjarni> so the first step is to just ignore whatever the callback should handle 23:06:12 <Bjarni> hmm 23:06:26 <Bjarni> another good question is if the callback is handled in sync 23:06:49 <Bjarni> I never needed to know that so I never investigated that 23:07:01 <SmatZ> do you want to have "floating money" above each depot? 23:07:05 <jez9999> yup 23:07:17 <jez9999> and if it can only convert 3 of 4, then the cost animation would be above those 3 23:07:19 <jez9999> but not the 4th 23:07:32 <Bjarni> it's used for stuff like opening a vehicle window when you build a new one 23:07:55 <jez9999> right 23:08:04 <jez9999> would it matter whether it was in sync or not? 23:08:08 <Bjarni> opening a window will not care if you do it in sync 23:08:19 <Bjarni> it would matter if you convert the depots in sync 23:08:25 <jez9999> ? 23:08:31 <Bjarni> imagine if it converts a depot on some clients but not all 23:08:42 <SmatZ> wat 23:08:55 <Bjarni> you have to be sure that the same amount of depots are converted everywhere 23:09:00 * Bjarni wats 23:09:09 <SmatZ> :) 23:09:32 <jez9999> you mean it converts the track, then the client takes 5 ticks to send the depot command 23:09:44 <jez9999> hmm but i dont see why it would cause a problem 23:10:43 *** Osai^zZz is now known as Osai^zZz`off 23:12:04 <Bjarni> it would cause a problem if it waits 5 somewhere and 3 somewhere else 23:12:17 <Bjarni> or 23:12:21 <Bjarni> even worse 23:12:32 <Bjarni> is only executed on one computer 23:12:46 <jez9999> given that callback is only available in DoCommandP which is described as 'network safe', it would be strange if it wasnt in sync 23:12:47 <Bjarni> I fear for the latter 23:13:38 <Bjarni> the command is safe. The question is if the callback is handled the same way everywhere 23:14:00 <jez9999> NetworkSend_Command(tile, p1, p2, cmd, callback); 23:15:19 <jez9999> hm, /* Only the local client (in this case, the server) gets the callback */ 23:15:42 <jez9999> how can you make the commands happen synchronously? 23:15:49 <jez9999> arent they all put in a queue? 23:18:09 <Bjarni> yeah only the client who calls the command will get the callback 23:18:58 <jez9999> so there is some way to indicate to the server "execute these commands atomically"? 23:19:19 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-84-226-10-64.adslplus.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:19:49 <Bjarni> so to get the behaviour you want then you should write in the callback that it should call "convert depot+vehicles" and make that one use the same callback (or something like that) 23:20:19 <Bjarni> the problem is that while it's not difficult to code it will create a package on the network for each depot which is what we didn't want it to do 23:20:19 <jez9999> make that one use the same callback? 23:20:59 <jez9999> well is there a mechanism for bundling commands together atomically?> 23:21:18 <jez9999> this IS executing a lot of different commands, unless there is a way to do that i dont see how you can avoid having lots of commands 23:21:43 <Bjarni> yeah... imagine it will convert tile 1-10 and there are depots on tile 4 and 7. The callback will then trigger on the depot for tile 4. Next time if the callback/command is coded correctly the same arguments will trigger on tile 7 23:21:48 <Bjarni> but that doesn't matter 23:21:54 <Bjarni> we will not accept that solution 23:22:03 <Bjarni> it wastes too much bandwidth 23:22:29 <jez9999> the only way to get something to be atomic is to make it a command, right? 23:22:43 <jez9999> so my original solution of adapting the convert rail command was probably best :-) 23:22:55 <jez9999> that single conversion would do all the work in one go 23:23:12 <Bjarni> what you need to do is to call DoCommandP() once and the function it calls will then call DoCommand() a number of times to get the job done 23:23:24 <Bjarni> DoCommandP() makes a package each time it's called 23:23:32 <jez9999> ohh so that's what P is 23:23:32 <Bjarni> DoCommand() doesn't 23:24:03 <jez9999> if you do a track conversion in a network game, it calls docommandp, right? 23:24:13 <Bjarni> DoCommand() will only execute locally but we just ensured that it will be executed in sync because it's in the piece of code we used DoCommandP() to handle in sync 23:24:34 <jez9999> right 23:24:34 <Bjarni> <jez9999> if you do a track conversion in a network game, it calls docommandp, right? <-- it should 23:24:58 <jez9999> ok, so im safe to call a few DoCommands in CmdConvertRail 23:25:02 <jez9999> ie. one for each depot 23:25:07 <jez9999> which i was planning to do anyway 23:25:11 <Bjarni> yes 23:25:25 <Bjarni> but then you can't fix the cost animation issue 23:25:38 <jez9999> well 23:25:53 <jez9999> i might be able to 23:26:07 <jez9999> i can calculate the cost for just upgrading track and empty depots 23:26:12 <jez9999> in the existing loop 23:26:21 <jez9999> i also build a std::list of depot info for other depots 23:26:28 <jez9999> at that point we have the CommandCost for just the track 23:26:58 <jez9999> somehow there needs to be a way to calculate whether a command can be afforded 23:27:01 <jez9999> then i could do it 23:28:06 <jez9999> isnt there some CanAfford(Player, CommandCost)? :-) 23:29:07 <jez9999> so close.......... 23:29:22 <glx> autoreplace can't know the real cost for the replacement 23:29:39 <jez9999> because? 23:29:41 <glx> as it can't query refit cost without building 23:29:51 <Bjarni> it can 23:29:55 <Bjarni> I fixed that 23:30:40 <Bjarni> bool CheckPlayerHasMoney(CommandCost cost) <-- I think you are looking for this one (in players.cpp) 23:30:47 <jez9999> ok 23:30:57 <jez9999> so if in my second loop i call that for each autoreplace 23:31:03 <jez9999> i can do the autoreplace if they can afford 23:31:12 <jez9999> that way in one command track is upgraded, and any depots possible are too 23:31:19 <jez9999> and it is synchronous 23:31:36 <Bjarni> remember that you need to convert the track before replacing 23:31:44 <Bjarni> and convert back if replacing fails 23:31:49 <jez9999> yup 23:31:57 <jez9999> one other thing i thought of 23:32:00 <Bjarni> and if you convert back it should be free 23:32:01 <jez9999> not sure whether it's a problem 23:32:19 <jez9999> well it's always free, the CmdConvertRail adds the convert cost itself 23:32:20 <jez9999> i think 23:32:22 <Bjarni> while it should cost to convert if it stays converted 23:32:27 <jez9999> really> 23:32:29 <jez9999> hmm 23:32:36 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 23:32:36 <Bjarni> that's how you should ensure that it works 23:33:11 <jez9999> this is seen a lot in CmdConvertRail: 23:33:11 <jez9999> cost.AddCost(RailConvertCost(type, totype)); 23:33:13 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BD2A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:33:16 <jez9999> it's adding the cost manually 23:33:45 <Bjarni> DoCommandP() will automatically take the money from the player so you should "just" return the right number 23:34:09 <jez9999> it will for the autoreplac 23:34:10 <Bjarni> but when calling DoCommand() inside the command will not automatically make you pay 23:34:19 <jez9999> but CmdConvertRail doesnt use DoCommandP for converting the rail 23:34:21 <Bjarni> so you should add the costs from the return value 23:34:31 <jez9999> it calls SetRailType 23:40:26 *** SpComb^ [terom@zapotek.paivola.fi] has joined #openttd 23:40:32 <Bjarni> it would have another nasty sideeffect 23:41:03 <Bjarni> it would kill whatever replace settings you already set for that particular enginetype 23:41:18 <jez9999> nope, because i first record them and afterwards replace them 23:41:35 <Bjarni> do you restore completely? 23:41:39 <jez9999> ? 23:41:49 <Bjarni> the replace commands? 23:41:55 <glx> well if you change railtype, the old railtype is already invalid 23:41:55 <jez9999> well this is one of the things i had in the issues list 23:42:02 <jez9999> im not sure whether i deal correctly with the whole groups thing 23:42:05 <jez9999> it's quite complex 23:42:08 <jez9999> but it can be done i think 23:42:08 <glx> the old replacement* 23:42:20 <jez9999> not 'invalid' 23:42:23 <jez9999> it can stay 23:42:27 *** SpComb [terom@zapotek.paivola.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:42:44 <glx> yes but not applicable 23:42:50 <jez9999> yeah but the rule can stay 23:43:05 <jez9999> obviously if you then build older track and an older vehicle it will be replaced again 23:43:14 <Bjarni> glx: no because you didn't convert the entire network. It's easy to presume that the engine is in use elsewhere 23:43:26 <glx> oh right 23:43:46 *** You're now known as SpComb 23:43:52 <jez9999> hmm this should work 23:44:16 <jez9999> are you meant to use DoCommand to call AddEngineReplacement, or call it directly? 23:44:25 <jez9999> likewise RemoveEngineReplacement 23:45:22 *** thgerg1 [~Administr@dsl51B789D8.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:46:15 <Bjarni> maybe it would be wiser to make autoreplace use a different set of replacement rules if the current train can't drive in the depot because then we know that we change railtype 23:47:22 <Bjarni> so we will not mess with the "normal" setup but use our own special set for this particular usage 23:47:32 <jez9999> we may want the option of upgrading normal depots to electrified depots 23:47:35 <jez9999> (and the trains in them) 23:47:59 <Bjarni> upgrading a normal depot to an electric one shouldn't mess with the trains inside it 23:48:02 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@90.212.98.23] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:48:25 <Bjarni> as steam/diesel can drive on electrified raillines 23:48:47 *** thgergo [~Administr@dsl51B789D8.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 23:48:48 <jez9999> as i said, you might want the option of doing that 23:48:55 <jez9999> dunno maybe not 23:49:09 <Bjarni> you can then set a normal replace rule to replace the engines and it will only be executed in electrified depots 23:51:16 <jez9999> yeah 23:51:34 *** thgergo [~Administr@dsl51B789D8.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:51:38 <jez9999> i did notice, for AddEngineReplacement 23:51:48 <jez9999> it takes a EngineRenewList argument 23:52:27 <jez9999> im not sure whether that could somehow be used to construct a new renew list just for the purposes of this conversion, i didnt really see it used except to specify p->engine_renew_list 23:52:53 <jez9999> if you could somehow say 'autoreplace' on a depot and specify an engine renew list, you could avoid what they player's current renew list is 23:54:48 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:56:28 <Bjarni> Groups can do that but that's not what we want to do 23:56:33 <Bjarni> I mean 23:56:52 <Bjarni> we shouldn't use groups for this 23:57:17 <Bjarni> or should we? 23:57:29 <Bjarni> no 23:57:40 <glx> there's a conflict between groups and global 23:57:54 <Bjarni> imagine a failure because there is no free groups 23:58:01 <Bjarni> or global issues as glx said 23:59:02 <jez9999> hmm 23:59:12 <jez9999> but if you could specify a list 23:59:16 <jez9999> EngineRenewList i mean 23:59:24 <jez9999> to autoreplace (autoreplace might need modifying) 23:59:36 <jez9999> it would ignore all the groups and global stuff, it just takes the list you specify