Log for #openttd on 5th May 2008:
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02:02:44  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: belugas * r12950 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix: two includes is one too much
02:11:23  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: belugas * r12951 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Fix(r9762)[FS#1977): Revert the new difficulty settings of town and industries back to their initial values.
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04:37:17  <k-man> do you get paid more for longer hauls?
04:48:23  <echinos> YES!!
04:48:34  <echinos> a lot more
04:49:05  <k-man> that seems strange to me
04:49:15  <JelloX> ...why
04:49:16  <k-man> i mean
04:49:47  <k-man> its too easy to maniplulate
04:50:11  <k-man> i'm not sure of the solution
04:50:31  <k-man> but somehow it just seems to easy to place your stations at opposite ends of the map to maximise profit
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05:25:29  <echinos> k-man: well, you don't usually start with enough money to do that, depending on map size...
05:25:41  <k-man> true
05:25:46  <k-man> but do you see my point?
05:25:49  <echinos> but yeah, money is normally not a problem in openttd
05:26:07  <echinos> the challenge is more about building good train networks
05:26:33  <k-man> agreed
05:26:35  <echinos> and, I guess, see just how much money you can make
05:26:38  <echinos> ;)
05:26:42  <k-man> true
05:26:53  <k-man> but why ship things across the map if you can ship it locally
05:27:05  <echinos> I couldn't make money the first few times I played it, 'cause I didn't know about the distance thing
05:27:09  <k-man> maybe if there was more penalty for the time taken
05:27:19  <k-man> ie closer deliveries would be more profitable cos they are faster
05:28:03  <echinos> that would be bad on the other end of the scale though... you could spend a *tiny* amount of money and make a lot
05:28:19  <k-man> hmm good point
05:28:42  <k-man> imagine its more a supply and demand thing
05:28:43  <echinos> forcing you to make long rail lines complicates things pretty fast ;)
05:28:59  <echinos> I think it's just a game mechanics thing, really
05:29:05  <k-man> the price of a comodity should be the same, but cost of delivery is higher for longer distances
05:29:45  <echinos> yeah, but you're not involved in the commodity price, just delivery
05:29:58  <echinos> who knows what the power station is paying the coal mine
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05:31:59  <Noldo> I wonder if the power station is able to add the super high transport costs to the consumer price
05:32:58  <echinos> so that they can't afford cars and have to take public transit ;)
05:33:01  <k-man> well exactly
05:33:07  <k-man> i can see why its done the current way
05:33:13  <k-man> i just wonder if theres a better way
05:35:38  <k-man> the other way would require a lot of supply and demand modeling
05:35:43  <k-man> it would be very complex
05:35:55  <k-man> more like sim city than a transport game
05:37:05  <Noldo> money could be renamed to building points or something like that
05:38:12  <k-man> hmmm
05:41:23  <echinos> well, there are a few things I've seen, but they're like certain passengers wanting a certain destination
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06:11:20  <Roest> morning
06:13:26  <Alberth> good morning
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06:23:28  <Roest> alberth i see lots of your stuff made it into trunk
06:24:27  <Alberth> yeah, very good. Rubidium as usual did also some improvements to my patches.
06:24:56  <Roest> lets see what's broken now :)
06:25:26  <Roest> ah
06:25:31  <Alberth> nothing, they are all just code changes..... :)
06:25:43  <Roest> window_gui.h:297: error: ‘void (* Window::wndproc)(Window*, WindowEvent*)’ is private
06:26:17  <Alberth> use w->HandleWindowEvent(e) instaed
06:26:22  <Alberth> s/ae/ea/
06:27:43  <Roest> _place_proc(e->;
06:28:11  <Alberth> hmm, Rubidium did more... I need to have a look!
06:28:50  <Roest> well it happened within the last 20 commits, so not too much to check
06:29:55  <Alberth> how do you manage your patches?
06:30:07  <Alberth> (in particular the patch sequences for trunk?)
06:30:25  <Roest> how do you mean that?
06:32:30  <Alberth> I use SVN to update 'my' trunk, then make branches with bzr from that, and create my patches in the branches. However, I am not really happy with this approach
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06:33:30  <Roest> right now i did a fresh checkout and try to apply my 12930 patchpack
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06:36:23  <Alberth> since my patches are usually too big for one patch file, after I created the patch, I make another branch, and copy changes over to the new branch until I have a patch for trunk. Then I commit the new branch with bzr, copy more changes, etc etc until I have a sequence of trunk-ready patches
06:36:47  <JelloX> SO HELP
06:36:48  <JelloX> HELPP
06:36:50  <JelloX> shit
06:36:52  <JelloX> WRONG CHAN
06:36:53  <JelloX> DAMN IT
06:36:55  <blindcoder> moin
06:37:53  <Alberth> ie I use bzr intermediate commit's for handling the incremental changes, and generating the diffs
06:40:01  <Roest> since i do no trunk stuff and most patches arent mine i just keep them close to a current rev, combine them in packs of 3, then merge them all
06:41:37  <Alberth> you update each patch file to trunk, and then merge them together to construct your patch pak?
06:42:13  <Roest> not always
06:42:23  <Roest> but that's the general idea
06:42:40  <Roest> no point in updating everything if there's just 20 revs between
06:43:02  <Alberth> as long as it merges correctly, I guess
06:43:22  <Roest> anyway this is strange
06:43:30  <Alberth> I see we have a Window constructor, I see
06:43:40  <Alberth> what is strange
06:43:49  <Roest> airport_gui.cpp line 101, this compiled just fine
06:44:12  <Roest> the exact same code in the copy_paste_gui.cpp does not
06:45:58  <Roest> maybe you dont have the same airport_gui.cpp line 101, i see this is modified too
06:46:26  <Roest> gonna find out what this changed to, it's used all over the place
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06:48:09  <Roest> oh damn
06:48:36  <Roest> it's not that line
06:48:46  <Roest> i'm not awake yet i guess
06:48:56  <Alberth> no, it seems line 142/143
06:48:58  <Roest> getting up at 6:45 has its drawbacks
06:49:23  <Roest> that line is ok
06:49:53  <Alberth> I was up at 6:00 already (and it is my last day off, I must be doing something wrong..)
06:50:06  <Roest> if (button < CPW_FIRST_CLICKABLE || !(w = FindWindowById(WC_COPY_PASTE, 0)) || w->wndproc != CopyPasteWndProc) {DeleteWindowById(WC_COPY_PASTE, 0);
06:51:07  <Alberth> ARGH!!
06:51:42  <Alberth> niet nog een hacky compare tegen een adres van een window event handler!!
06:52:07  <Roest> oh damn, if he falls back to his native language he's angry
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06:52:28  <Alberth> well, it is your patch ;)
06:52:43  <Roest> nah copypaste is frostregens
06:52:55  <Alberth> the same hack was also in build toolbar windows
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06:53:26  <Roest> he probably does it how i do it, look how it's done in other windows and copy the code
06:53:38  <Alberth> we had 3 WC_BUILD_STATION windows (for ships, planes, and trains)
06:54:04  <Alberth> train build compared against its winproc to check it is the right one.
06:54:35  <Alberth> Rubidium fixed that by using a different window_number for each build station window (at least that is what the log said)
06:56:01  <Alberth> r12939
06:56:58  <Alberth> -       Window *w = FindWindowById(WC_BUILD_TOOLBAR, 0);
06:57:23  <Roest> looking at the patch right now
06:58:04  <Alberth> how many WC_COPY_PASTE windows exist?
06:59:38  <Roest> just one, looks pretty clear now, just have to add the type in openttd.h and copy the code from the patch
07:00:27  <Alberth> you can simply remove the w->wndproc check then (it should never fail)
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07:02:12  <Roest> or that
07:05:20  <Roest> yea works
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07:13:01  <Benny22Canberra> can anyone send me this damn file? haha
07:13:08  <ln> no.
07:15:59  <cjk> google it.
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07:16:29  <cjk> much faster than asking anyone here to squeeze it through their modem line
07:17:19  <Alberth> I would have done that first, before asking
07:17:32  * cjk pats Alberth
07:17:34  <cjk> not everyone is as smart :)
07:18:13  <Alberth> well, apparently, he considers asking in a channel faster than looking for it.
07:18:46  <Roest> cjk this is how it looks correctly
07:19:05  <Alberth> so maybe I am just doing things the wrong way here :P
07:19:12  <cjk> Roest: so you got it working now?
07:19:37  <Roest> yea, not sure if it's a good permanent solution
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07:19:47  <cjk> well, what is good in your opinion?
07:20:12  <Roest> i'm just using alpha test now instead of alpha blending
07:20:35  <Roest> this is ok if the alpha is just binary
07:21:34  <cjk> well now try applying a 50% alpha to the entire image and see if it dims correctly
07:22:01  <cjk> also, or perhaps instead, you might want to wrap the 3d window into its own program
07:22:06  <cjk> to rule out a wx fault
07:22:08  <Roest> i don't want it to dim, i needed to removed the boxes from around the brain area
07:22:21  <cjk> oh
07:22:32  <cjk> if it's just that, you should have looked at asteroids3D, which does just the same
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07:38:41  <SmatZ> hello
07:39:13  <Roest> jo
07:39:28  <Roest> yo
07:39:31  <Roest> lo
07:39:59  <Tefad> ro
07:40:14  <peter1138> no
07:41:01  <k-man> bo
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07:58:36  <Roest> anyone with forum mod rights here?
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08:01:49  <Roest> is there a trainset that has all freight types in mag levs?
08:09:14  * Roest kills a cricket
08:09:15  <peter1138> yes
08:09:23  <peter1138> origengs.grf ;)
08:10:03  <Roest> peter can you do me a favor please?
08:10:41  <Roest> delete the 2nd post in this thread
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08:16:43  <planetmaker> Hey, Roest, what's wrong with my post??
08:17:39  <Roest> uh why yours?
08:17:47  <planetmaker> delete the 2nd post in this thread
08:18:07  <planetmaker> nvm. Mixed up browser tabs :P
08:18:12  <Roest> lol
08:19:09  <planetmaker> sorry :) I guess it's good my tea just is ready :P
08:19:20  * Alberth puts book about elementary counting back on the shelf
08:19:27  <Roest> apparently you need something stronger
08:19:37  <planetmaker> Tea lasts longer than coffee :)
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08:20:37  <planetmaker> lol ^^
08:20:40  <Roest> gender change 4tw
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08:27:23  <cjk> DND land purchase wtf :p
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08:50:33  <cjk> hm, what directory in ~/.openttd do I need to put new GRFs in?
08:50:47  <SpComb> presumeably data
08:51:19  <Ammler> maybe you need to create it
08:51:29  <cjk> hm I did
08:51:43  <cjk> it tries ~/.openttd/data, but the newgrf dialog does not list any of the GRFs I added
08:52:01  <Ammler> "rescan" the grfs
08:52:18  <Ammler> or which Version of ottd do you use?
08:52:20  <cjk> Ah, I need to add it ;-)
08:52:32  <Ammler> ok :-)
08:53:26  <cjk> meh openttd just crashed after adding all ECS grfs
08:53:58  <Ammler> cjk: did you try it on a running game?
08:54:07  <Ammler> or do you have an error msg?
08:54:08  <cjk> yes it works after a restart
08:54:21  <cjk> afte rhitting "apply" on the newgrf dialog the thing just segfaulted
08:54:35  <cjk> since it works after a restart i'm all happy already :p
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08:54:54  <Ammler> cjk: just have the town vector as first
08:55:53  <cjk> nice nice.
08:56:05  <cjk> hm the sand pit just loses sand even if I am not transporting! :p
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08:56:43  <Roest> it has a hole deep down inside
09:01:43  <cjk> so do you happen to know what hopper to use for sand?
09:02:19  <cjk> i do have the town vector
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09:04:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> i guess this huge warning saying "OTTD may crash if you do this" does have its purpose :p
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09:04:29  <cjk> what, where
09:04:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> if you change newgrfs within a running game
09:05:04  <cjk> i was not in a game, unless the title screen is a game
09:05:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> that should work...
09:05:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> in that case, try to reproduce it ;)
09:05:43  <Alberth> I found a small graphics glitch with the North Americal Renewal Trainset, see The passenger cars and the engine at the end stick out at the left of the window. Where should this be reported?
09:06:07  * Roest waits for the global warming to arrive
09:06:17  <SmatZ> Alberth: to the newgrf author I would say
09:06:25  <SmatZ> if it works in TTDP
09:06:29  <SmatZ> the same wya
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09:07:33  <Alberth> I don't know whether it works in TTDP, no Win* machine in the building
09:07:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> wine ttdpatchw.exe -y
09:08:12  <Roest> bash: wine: command not found :P
09:09:35  <Alberth> Eddi: Does that work without a Win* OS? (I assume not)
09:10:11  <Ammler> It does: quick howto:
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09:15:42  <SpComb> patchman used to develop TTDPatch on OS X
09:16:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> Alberth: wine works without having windows
09:17:22  <Alberth> Eddi: So Ammler told me (thanks!). Getting it installed now.
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09:30:47  <Frostregen> hmm, i can deliver (and get paid for) the same cargo multiple times
09:31:12  <Frostregen> by interrupting the unloading process, after beeing paid
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09:33:25  <SmatZ> Frostregen: in 0.6 ?
09:33:39  <SmatZ> I don't think this was even possible in 0.5
09:33:59  <SpComb> Frostregen: do you get the same amount of cash each time?
09:34:42  <Frostregen> slightly less, as some goods get lost
09:35:04  <Frostregen> i tested it with 12951
09:35:13  <Frostregen> but should work with 0.6 too
09:35:47  <SpComb> and I guess it works in multiplayer as well, then?
09:36:00  <Frostregen> there should be no difference
09:36:02  <SmatZ> Frostregen: what do you mean by 'interrupting the unloading proces'? sending train to depot?
09:36:07  <Frostregen> exactly
09:36:50  <Frostregen> in my first setup i needed to unload/load the cargo at another station
09:37:01  <Frostregen> before getting money for it again
09:38:19  <Frostregen> maybe the payment should be after unloading all cargo?
09:39:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> each cargo package should remember if it has been paid for
09:39:44  <peter1138> how about not letting the vehicle move when it's unloading
09:40:13  <SmatZ> Frostregen: I really can't reproduce it
09:40:25  <Maedhros> hmm. i thought we'd fixed that at one point (a long time ago)
09:40:29  <Frostregen> i'm creating a savegame...
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09:45:33  <Alberth> Hmm, should anything happen when starting ttdpatch, other than the CPU load jump to 1? :P
09:45:56  <Alberth> Also tried a Windows version, but cannot get it installed
09:46:38  <Alberth> Maybe it doesn't like my AMD-64 CPU :)
09:47:05  <Alberth> (although running Linux in 32bit mode)
09:49:53  <Maedhros> it's worked fine with my amd64 for years ;)
09:50:15  <blathijs> Alberth: Apart from the fact that this is #openttd, and not #ttdpatch, I assume ttdpatch should actually do something when started :-)
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09:52:00  <Alberth> blathijs: I expected that too. I'll just report the glitch mentioning that I only tested it with OpenTTD. Tnx all.
09:53:20  <blathijs> Alberth: Uh, I was suggesting you are mixing up projects. Are you having problems with OpenTTD, or with TTDPatch?
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09:54:49  <Frostregen>
09:55:21  <Alberth> blathijs: I was trying to test a graphics glitch ( I discovered yesterday in OpenTTD
09:56:07  <SmatZ> Frostregen: you take cargo
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09:56:49  <insulfrog> hi
09:56:50  <blathijs> Alberth: So you just mistyped, and nothing is TTDPatch related?
09:56:58  <blathijs> Or you were trying to compare with TTDPatch?
09:57:10  <Frostregen> open up train window, open train orders window, start train, click 2 times on "send to depot" right after payment, skip to next order, wait for unload/load, repeat
09:58:19  <Alberth> blathijs: SmatZ suggested to test it in TTDPatch, to check that OpenTTD code is correct (ie it is a NewGRF problem and not a C++ problem)
09:58:38  <Frostregen> (actually wait till train leaves, before second click on send to depot)
09:58:55  <blathijs> Alberth: Ah, I see
09:59:10  <SmatZ> Frostregen: interesting
09:59:21  <blathijs> Hmm, I should have read back a few lines before asking stupid questions :-)
09:59:28  <peter1138> lots of grfs do that. it is a grf 'problem'
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10:00:02  <blathijs> What exactly is the glitch? I can't seem to find it in the screenshot
10:00:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> the wagons stick out of the window on the left
10:00:25  <peter1138> the latest version of nars does not do that
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10:01:26  <blathijs> ah, I see
10:02:09  <Alberth> ok, I'll wait for ottdc grfpack 7.1
10:02:44  <peter1138> latest version being the prerelease of version 3, heh
10:03:02  <Maedhros> Frostregen: basically, this is just the problem that vehicles don't know not to pick up cargo that they just unloaded
10:03:28  <Frostregen> +it unsets some "this cargo is already paid" marker
10:03:54  <Frostregen> if i try to get directly paid for the cargo at another station, it doesnt work
10:03:55  <Maedhros> that marker is stored by the train, not the cargo
10:04:12  <Maedhros> so when you unload the cargo, the marker gets unset
10:04:12  <Frostregen> ah, ok
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10:05:17  <Frostregen> it is hard to exploit anyway
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10:10:51  <SmatZ> I think you should definitely report it
10:11:13  <SmatZ> but in a way that people won't start exploiting it :)
10:11:43  <SmatZ> well, I don't know
10:11:47  <SmatZ> but it should be fixed
10:12:05  <Ammler> Alberth: not sure, if 7.1 will have new version of NARS
10:12:27  <Frostregen> i think peter1138 approach did sound good. just don't move trains until fully unloaded
10:12:42  <Alberth> Frostgen: now that you mention this problem, I remember weird cargo problems with ECS vector industries where you were just below the limit of what the industry accepted. Unfortunately, cannot really recall the details :(
10:13:09  <SmatZ> Frostregen: I think being paid after cargo unload is a better idea
10:13:20  <SmatZ> but it changes game behaviour...
10:13:33  <Frostregen> SmatZ: this introduces a possible leak of money
10:14:25  <Alberth> Ammler: Ah well, I'll take that chance. Just noticed it by accident
10:14:29  <SmatZ> Frostregen: you can store somewhere how much you should be paid
10:14:42  <Frostregen> hm, right
10:15:07  <SmatZ> or you could store the information that the packet has been unload in the cargo packet
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10:15:13  <Alberth> Would labeling the cargo as originating from the dest station help?
10:15:24  <SmatZ> Alberth: no
10:15:34  <SmatZ> you could unload it then at different station again
10:15:41  <Maedhros> cp->paid_for     = false;
10:15:45  <Maedhros> /* When cargo is moved into another vehicle you have *always* paid for it */
10:15:53  <Maedhros> (cargopacket.cpp:209)
10:16:44  <Maedhros> that's probably what causes it (apparently whether the cargo is paid for *is* stored with the cargo now)
10:16:54  <Alberth> What about re-labeling from 'nowhere' (ie invalid station)?
10:16:55  <SmatZ> great :)
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10:17:53  <Frostregen> so the question is, what other things depends on this line?
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10:33:00  <Roest> lol, friend of mine has to fix a software project that was outsourced to india and failed
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10:44:50  <k-man_> is it possible to have a local game with no competitors?
10:45:09  <Roest> why shouldnt it
10:45:18  <ln> Roest: '
10:45:32  <Roest> takes too much time to type it
10:45:59  <Roest> but i make you an offer, here: '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
10:46:08  <Roest> that should be enough for today and tomorrow
10:46:12  <Roest> after that you get more
10:46:44  <ln> Roest: your precious time should not be wasted, but all the hundreds of readers' time should?
10:46:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> not if i throw in anti-apostrophs: ,,,,,,, :p
10:47:12  <cjk> or reverse ones `````````
10:48:08  <peter1138> pressing ' is slow? :o
10:48:09  <Maedhros> "hundreds of [...] time" ? :-P
10:48:38  <Alberth> In: What precious readers' time were you referring to? :P
10:48:48  <peter1138> l is not I
10:48:58  <ln> lndeed not
10:49:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> I am not l either
10:51:25  <Alberth> Ah, it's a different letter!
10:54:10  <st6> is the drive thru bus stop slower than the normal?
10:54:25  <Roest> it's faster
10:56:13  <Alberth> st6: Arriving and leaving buses don't get in each others' way
10:57:59  <cjk> Alberth: get a better font
11:02:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> problem with drive through is that you need a separate location for turning the busses
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11:04:00  <cjk> kinda easy
11:04:30  <Alberth> cjk: Well, it's not better, but hopefully less confusing
11:05:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, road loops look kinda ugly... it'd look nicer if i could put a (one way) drive through stop on a curve
11:05:58  <cjk> curve o_O
11:06:13  <Roest> ^^
11:06:16  <Roest> cur've
11:06:21  <cjk> curvé
11:06:26  <cjk> anyway
11:06:35  <cjk> how would that look like?
11:06:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> is that not an english word?
11:07:15  <Roest> don't know, our grammar and spelling cop didn't shout
11:07:33  <Eddi|zuHause2>
11:08:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> anyway, say i have a road crossing
11:08:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> |
11:08:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> +-
11:08:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> i could put a "curved stop" next to it
11:09:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> |\
11:09:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> +-
11:09:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> where \ is the stop, and only to be used by busses
11:09:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> then the busses could go into the stop, and use the crossing to go back the way they came from
11:11:45  <Roest>
11:12:09  <SmatZ> :-D
11:13:36  <cjk> well...
11:13:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> wait... we ARE a terrorism cell, right?
11:13:48  <cjk> the fact is they use it because it's more reliable (which is just what you want as a terrorist, no?)
11:14:09  <cjk> if every Qaeda bomb ran with Windows CE, uhm, expect 80% in failures
11:14:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> Silence!
11:14:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> I kill you!
11:15:01  <cjk> bombiges Wetter heute ...
11:15:25  <Roest> bombig'es
11:15:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> does that even have a proper translation?
11:15:43  <trd> wtb new forum buff: Flame resistance. Start out at 10% and work slowly towards 90%.
11:15:56  <trd> er
11:15:57  <trd> mt
11:16:06  <trd> That was supposed to go to the Anarchy-Online channel.
11:16:10  <Roest> lawl
11:16:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> we totally need that in openttd :p
11:16:39  <Roest> i was going to say the ottd forums are tame why would you need that here
11:17:07  <Roest> AO, there are still people playing that?
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11:17:47  <trd> Yes
11:18:02  <trd> And I bet a lot of people will be returning to it when the new GFX engine is launched this fall :)
11:19:00  <Roest> not me, that release put funcom on my (very short) list of publishers i never buy a game from again
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11:19:28  <trd> hehehe
11:19:56  <trd> EA is on my list.. and it's about it. I'm happy I wasn't around for the launch of AO though.
11:20:37  <Roest> that was by far the worst mmo launch i ever played
11:20:52  <trd> I don't doubt it. I heard it was... havoc.
11:21:25  <cjk> Eddi|zuHause2: perhaps "bombastic"
11:21:32  <trd> they're launching Age of Conan in a few weeks... Will be fun to watch how that goes. I think they've learned though.. that game was pushed back for at least two years.
11:21:40  <Roest> guess that lost them quite some customers
11:21:43  * cjk slaps Roest with a Deppenapostroph
11:25:22  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12952 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: -Cleanup: Indenting and codestyle
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11:36:56  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12953 /trunk/src/ (9 files): -Feature: Open a new viewport when ctrl-clicking on a 'Location' button, a town/station/industry list, or some news items.
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11:39:07  <Noldo> :) that was fast
11:39:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> that sounds cool
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11:41:33  <cjk> i'd rather have it with the middle mouse button than ctrl+click
11:42:06  <cjk> like firefox
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11:47:57  <orudge> Woo, my DOS-based dedicated server has been playing for around 8 hours (with a bunch of AI players) quite happily. Very slowly (one day is about 8 seconds), but it works. :P
11:48:51  <Roest> nice, a bunch of noai players or oldai?
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11:49:21  <orudge> ldnewai (as in, what was the "new ai" that did road vehicles)
11:49:28  <orudge> *oldnewai
11:49:33  <cjk> DOS?
11:49:40  <cjk> ...
11:49:57  <Maedhros> hmm. newspapers seem to ignore the transparent station signs settings
11:50:03  <orudge> Yes, DOS :)
11:50:11  <cjk> why o why, o dos!
11:50:27  <orudge> Why not?
11:50:40  <cjk> oh so it's that masochistic feeling :)
11:50:48  <cjk> to get something to run on the weirdest archs
11:50:57  <SmatZ> Maedhros: newspaper ignore all trnasparency and invisibility settings
11:50:58  <Roest> cjk didn't you know, orudge is also the maintainer of the Z80 port
11:51:41  <orudge> cjk: well, I wrote an OS/2 port. ;) I also ported OpenTTD to DOS back in early 2004, but that port fell into disuse, so I decided to report it. This time, I got networking working, too :D
11:52:14  <cjk> must be a ram sucker
11:54:13  <orudge> Well, I had a dedicated server running fine (256x256 map) on a virtual machine with 16MB of RAM. When I tried to load a few newgrfs though, it crashed with an out of memory error.
11:54:16  <Maedhros> SmatZ: oh, ok
11:54:23  <cjk>, 60k. NDIS driver, ?k. TCP stack, 80k.
11:54:26  <trd> Wonder if OTTD works on netbsd. Would be fun to boot a playstation into NetBSD just to play OTTD.
11:54:35  <orudge> so more is better ;)
11:54:47  <cjk> no way that fits into 640k
11:55:12  <Maedhros> i think netbsd support was committed a few days ago, actually
11:55:15  <orudge> cjk: obviously, OpenTTD uses DPMI on DOS, it doesn't really care about the low memory area
11:55:52  <orudge> anyway, the TCP/IP stack is built into OpenTTD (it uses WATTCP). So all that's needed is a packet driver in memory.
11:57:22  <orudge> FreeDOS 1.0 comes with a whole load of packet drivers, and lots of network-enabled applications. It's quite fun. Maybe OpenTTD will be bundled with a future version of FreeDOS, when our graphics and sound are free. ;)
11:59:37  <cjk> given that most people run Windows or some *nux anyway....
11:59:59  <Roest> 'nux
12:00:14  * cjk slaps Roest
12:00:41  <orudge> Well, yes, "most people" run a more modern OS. But if we can give something to those who still choose to use the likes of DOS or OS/2, then why not? I know at least one user who says they'd find a DOS port of OpenTTD useful, so if anything else, that's one user I've made happy. ;)
12:01:17  <peter1138> cjk: we have no code at all for middle-mouse button handling
12:01:23  <cjk> some 3 year old with grandpa's 386 :)
12:02:05  <peter1138> OpenTTD under DOS will rock :D
12:02:32  <peter1138> can we have a VESA video driver? heh
12:02:41  <cjk> SDL can do vesa output
12:02:44  <cjk> or was it svga..
12:02:51  <peter1138> SDL does svgalib
12:02:59  <peter1138> well, used to
12:03:01  <cjk> seems to be the same more or less
12:03:16  <peter1138> i don't know if it is
12:03:28  <peter1138> svgalib is not a dos thing, after all
12:03:43  <cjk> I am inclined to believe that SVGA is a card-specific operation, while VESA is that general thing provided by the BIOS+card
12:03:47  <orudge> peter1138: yes, you'll be able to use VESA
12:04:12  <Roest> and sound is speaker output?
12:04:23  <peter1138> hmm, yes, sound drivers :o
12:04:30  <peter1138> GUS support!
12:04:44  <ln> VGA ought to be enough for anyone
12:04:54  <Roest> any'one
12:05:00  <ln> no
12:05:17  <orudge> video support will be: standard VGA, Mode-X, VESA, VBE/2.0,VBE/3.0, VBE/AF
12:05:30  <cjk> ttd in 320x200? ugh..
12:05:45  <ln> cjk: what are you talking about?
12:05:53  <orudge> sound support: SB 1.0, 1.5, 2.0, Pro, 16, ESS AudioDrive, Ensoniq Sound System, Windows Sound System
12:05:54  <cjk> "VGA" means 320x200x8
12:06:05  <ln> source for this piece information?
12:06:09  <cjk> DOS games.
12:06:23  <orudge> cjk: indeed it does. I'd probably recommend 640x480 as a minimum. ;)
12:06:40  <cjk> 640x480x4bit is also some sort of VGA, right. But a not so colorful one.
12:06:51  <ln> cjk:
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12:07:06  <trd> ln beat me to it
12:07:11  <orudge> and just for good measure - MIDI: Adlib, OPL2, OPL3, SB midi, MPU-401, DIGMID (software samples), AWE32
12:08:09  <orudge> My intention is to use the Allegro game library for OpenTTD. Allegro can also be used on a bunch of other platforms, but I think we already have ports to most, if not all, of those.
12:08:18  <Gekz> AALIB!
12:08:26  <Gekz> I want OpenTTD in ASCII glory damn itr
12:08:30  <orudge> (do we have a QNX port?)
12:08:33  <cjk> Gekz: SDL does aalib.
12:08:38  <Gekz> oh goody
12:09:07  <cjk> ln: it's mostly correct, but it is missing the bit depth, which was very important in the early days.
12:09:23  <Gekz> so we're porting ottd to dos
12:09:25  <Gekz> >_>
12:09:37  <SmatZ> orudge: is there any unified interface for sound and video? even when you have a very old VGA card? (without VESA extensions)
12:09:38  <orudge> porting? it's already been ported, mostly :P
12:09:45  <Gekz> oh dear.
12:09:57  <orudge> esides, TTD started off on DOS, we may as well port OpenTTD back to TTD's spiritual home :P
12:10:15  <Gekz> NO
12:10:17  <Gekz> KEEP IT AWAY
12:10:30  <orudge> SmatZ: well, the VESA standards are the closest things to a "unified standard", with VBE/* being newer versions of it
12:10:35  <Gekz> port it to AIX so you can call yourself satanic
12:11:20  <orudge> as for sound - almost everything is Sound Blaster compatible
12:11:22  <cjk> cga was - in qbasic and LOTS of games (Blues Brothers, Commander Keen) - cga=320x200x2,640x200x2,640x400x2, ega=320x200x4,640x350x4, vga=320x200x8, theother vga =640x480x4,640x400x4, herc=720x576(or so)x2 and svga=640x480x8,800x600x8,...
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12:11:47  <Gekz> svga ftw
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12:13:35  <stillunknown> Doesn't vbe give you access to higher resolutions?
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12:13:51  <stillunknown> eg, non-text modes
12:14:39  <cjk> VBE is VESA :p
12:14:45  <orudge> Yers
12:14:47  <orudge> *Yes
12:14:52  <cjk> yer's
12:15:38  <stillunknown> Well, it's a vesa extension iirc.
12:16:08  <orudge>  used to play various Allegro games in resolutions that my CRT didn't really like supporting back in the day - 2048x1536 type things
12:16:19  <cjk> VESA Bios Extensions
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12:17:54  <peter1138> 320x200x8bpp was MCGA/VGA
12:18:27  <cjk> just what I said :p
12:18:29  <peter1138> (VGA because CGA and EGA couldn't do it, but MCGA was not very common)
12:19:03  <Brianetta> Multiple knifing in Leeds
12:19:12  <cjk> Forking in pidgin.
12:19:14  <Brianetta> I wonder if that would have made a national headline int her US
12:19:26  <Gekz> nope
12:19:30  <Gekz> they're busy bitching about which idiot will win the election
12:19:35  <Gekz> it doesnt matter, you're screwed either way
12:20:17  <Brianetta> They only let US-born Americans become president.  I think they should reverse that entirely; only allow foreigners to lead them.
12:20:24  <Gekz> oh man
12:20:26  <Gekz> that would so rock
12:20:55  <peter1138> but... arnie...
12:21:07  <Gekz> lol
12:21:10  <Gekz> kill him
12:21:10  <Gekz> move on
12:21:16  <cjk> kill bill
12:21:39  <Brianetta> peter1138: He's not foreign
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12:21:50  <cjk> he is?
12:21:58  <Brianetta> No, he's a US citizen
12:22:04  <cjk> but born outside US
12:22:15  <Brianetta> I'm talking totalk foreigners; if they don't speak English, that's better
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12:22:28  <Brianetta> Get some Chinese peasant to take the reigns
12:22:28  <peter1138> you said US-born, heh
12:22:30  <Brianetta> er
12:22:31  <Brianetta> reins
12:22:42  <Brianetta> No, I stated their rules
12:22:43  <cjk> reigns.
12:22:50  <Brianetta> I said "reverse that entirely"
12:22:56  <Brianetta> cjk: Nope
12:23:10  <Brianetta> reins, as in horse, not reigns, as in what a king does
12:23:26  <Brianetta> You can't take the reigns
12:23:30  <Brianetta> reign is a verb
12:23:57  <Brianetta> Just making that mistake in the first place fills me with shame; I know better.
12:24:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> "ZÃŒgel"
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12:27:30  <Gekz> my girlfriend had a dream about me stealing someones wallet lolo
12:27:42  <peter1138> did you?
12:28:36  <Gekz> no
12:28:41  <Gekz> thats why I lol'd
12:28:44  <Gekz> I don't do that
12:28:46  <Gekz> not any more...
12:34:14  * Roest looks for his wallet
12:35:24  <Gekz> Roest: doesnt put your hand there! That's my e-penis :/
12:35:29  <Gekz> doesnt? wtf
12:35:30  <Gekz> dont*
12:35:46  * Roest gives Gekz two '
12:35:46  <ln> Gekz: the apostrophes
12:35:55  <Gekz> ln: que?
12:36:03  <Gekz> Mi ne komprenas.
12:36:14  <ln> Gekz: '
12:36:16  <Roest> the apostroph cop just got you
12:36:25  <Gekz> ln: si?
12:36:45  <Gekz> my apostrophe key doesnt work
12:36:45  <ln> Gekz: if what?
12:36:45  <Gekz> lo
12:36:51  <Gekz> i just mashed it.
12:36:53  <Gekz> ...
12:36:55  <Gekz> fail.
12:37:01  <Gekz> brb
12:37:08  <Roest> lol
12:37:12  <Gekz> lol
12:37:12  <Roest> lo'l
12:37:18  <Gekz> theres so much gunk under that key
12:37:21  * Gekz cleans
12:37:29  <Roest> gunk?
12:37:31  <Gekz> '''''''''
12:37:32  <Gekz> yay!
12:37:34  <Gekz> gunk, crap
12:37:37  <Gekz> dust
12:37:39  <Gekz> dust bunnies
12:37:41  <Roest> gun'k
12:37:42  <Gekz> corpses
12:37:43  <ln> Gekz: in the meanwhile, you can write "does not", "will not", etc.
12:37:49  <Gekz> I shant
12:37:54  <Gekz> OH PWNERED
12:38:04  <Gekz> I shanty
12:38:23  <Roest> blah stupid irc [14:41] [Nickname] Erroneous Nickname
12:39:16  <Roest> i need a forum ignore option
12:39:36  <Roest> someone write me a greasemonkey script plz
12:40:47  <Maedhros> doesn't adding people to your "enemies" list do that for you already?
12:40:59  <Roest> there is an enemies list?
12:40:59  * Maedhros has never tried it, though
12:41:07  * Roest goes looking
12:41:57  <Maedhros> Roest: "Friends and Foes" in the user control panel (if you're using the English translation)
12:41:59  <Roest> nice
12:42:05  <Roest> it works
12:42:10  <Roest> so much better
12:43:20  <Maedhros> argh
12:43:22  <Maedhros> "TTD is counted as abandonware by the original publishers"
12:43:24  <Maedhros> *stab*
12:43:33  <ln> surely
12:44:22  <ln> do they link to the announcement by the original publishers?
12:46:11  <Gekz> ln: counted
12:46:15  <Gekz> not established
12:46:35  <Gekz> and abandonware is a phallacy anyway
12:46:42  <ln> count dracula
12:46:43  <Gekz> it just means noone has the money to sue you if you screw with their code
12:46:45  <Maedhros> err, fallacy ;)
12:46:52  <Gekz> Maedhros: nein
12:46:55  <Roest> phallus
12:47:21  <Roest> count chocula
12:47:48  <Gekz> NEIN
12:47:48  <Roest>
12:49:25  * Maedhros is off to lectures
12:49:33  <peter1138> on a bank holiday :o
12:49:45  <orudge> cjk: fyi, my network and LFN-enabled FreeDOS install currently uses 61KB of conventional memory,  21KB of upper memory, 362KB of reserved memory, and 1.4MB of extended memory (sitting at 577KB of conventional free, plenty ;)
12:49:50  * orudge 's lectures are cancelled
12:49:54  * orudge has a practical due in tonight though
12:50:07  <peter1138> how much does openttd take up?
12:50:11  <orudge> well
12:50:35  <orudge> I don't know exactly, but I managed to run a dedicated server in 16MB of RAM (256x256 map) without problems
12:51:00  <orudge> once I added a chunk of newgrfs, it ran out of memory
12:51:09  <orudge> I'll have to perform some proper tests when I can
12:51:09  <peter1138> that figures
12:51:59  <peter1138> ooh, my bread is starting to smell nice
12:52:06  *** helb [~helb@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:52:40  <Gekz> peter1138: how many days did you leave it out for
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12:58:49  <peter1138> Gekz: -30 minutes so far
12:58:57  <Gekz> lol
12:59:49  <Roest> My firewall says there is a virus in the file 'OpenTTDAutoUpdater.exe'. Is that true or not?
13:00:28  <planetmaker> ^^ don't frighten me... :S
13:00:51  <Roest>
13:01:22  <Roest> nice firewall too, mine dont have virus checks
13:03:03  <SmatZ> Roest: it connects somewhere and downloads an exe, so it may be considered dangerous by antivirus
13:03:15  <orudge> peter1138: well, openttd itself seems to use 80KB of conventional memory, plus 13.2KB for the DPMI server. Running a 256x256 map, no GRFs, dedicated server uses about 11MB of XMS
13:04:02  <Roest> i was going to answer yes it's true but it's too late already and he should cancel his CC card and telephone subscriptions
13:04:31  <Roest> but then i didnt because of the friendly spirit
13:04:53  <orudge> making it 1024x1024 seems to use 25MB of XMS
13:05:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> TTO used around 2.5MB i kinda remember
13:05:54  <orudge> 56MB XMS with 2048x2048
13:06:15  <orudge> it may be using EMS too, potentially, hmm
13:06:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> i never understood the difference in EMS and XMS
13:06:39  <orudge> ah, well, no, it'll just be the EMS isn't available because the XMS is using it ;)
13:06:43  <Gekz> rofl
13:06:48  <Gekz> my boss just got kicked out of his flat
13:06:57  <Gekz> and the chick that kicked him out told me on msn >_>
13:07:01  <Gekz> this whole situation makes me angry
13:07:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> go ask him for a raise now :p
13:07:09  <SmatZ> :)
13:07:11  <Gekz> hes in another nation
13:07:11  <Gekz> lol
13:08:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> if you do not have an apostrophe key, write out the damn words!
13:08:39  <peter1138> orudge: so basically it's much like normal then :D
13:09:15  <orudge> seems to be, no reason it ought to be any different really
13:09:15  <Gekz> Eddi|zuHause2: no
13:09:16  <Gekz> :D
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13:12:40  <insulfrog> hi, how is all? :)
13:12:48  <orudge> Most splendid
13:12:58  <orudge> except that I need to go and do some actual academic work instead of hacking around with OpenTTD
13:13:08  <insulfrog> ok :)
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13:15:41  <insulfrog> Has anyone used the latest 'MiniN' version of OTTD?
13:15:55  <orudge> Not in a long time
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13:17:05  <insulfrog> I have just downloaded it a couple of days back and it includes an 'experimental' version of Path Based Signalling (PBS)
13:17:06  <Roest> isn't the last one rev 9000 something
13:17:23  <insulfrog> no, it is r8928
13:17:27  <orudge> that was an old version of PBS
13:17:29  <orudge> take a look at YAPP
13:17:32  <orudge> it's a new PBS patch
13:17:59  <Roest> 8928 :)
13:18:10  <peter1138> heh, ancient
13:18:27  <Roest> ask orudge for the dos version too
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13:19:18  <insulfrog> I tried to but apparently, there appears to be something not correct as the OTTD version for that would not compile using Microsoft Visual Studio Express Edition
13:20:02  <insulfrog> Let me just sort some stuff out, then I'll explain it all :)
13:20:28  * Roest can't wait to hear it
13:20:30  <peter1138> unfortunately, miniin is dead
13:21:10  <peter1138> your statement is a bit like "Has anyone used the latest Windows ME version of Windows?
13:21:58  <Roest> so peter what is it with you and the analogies
13:24:09  <insulfrog> Now, do I need an SVN version of OTTD for the patch to work?
13:24:44  <Roest> most likely
13:25:45  <insulfrog> now, the version that TortoiseSVN checkout gave me is r12954
13:25:49  <insulfrog> (brb)
13:26:51  * Roest waits for the return
13:30:24  <Alberth> Roest: In the mean time, you can prepare a response for the reject he'll get
13:30:54  <Roest> i'm trying to remember what the last problem with yapp was
13:31:12  <Roest> think the rectangle code change
13:31:27  <Roest> or maybe that was paxdest
13:31:49  <peter1138> something to do with non-uniform stations
13:33:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> easiest would be to tell him to "update" to 12697
13:34:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> (and make sure he's using trunk, instead of any branch)
13:34:36  <Roest> 2nd easiest would be using BuildOTTD
13:34:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, my bridge patch for miniin should be lying around somewhere still ;)
13:34:48  <Roest> easiest would be using an already existing binary
13:35:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> that won't help him build it with visual studio :p
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13:40:18  <Rubidium> Roest: but pointing him to the location where those binaries are is lame ;)
13:41:08  <Roest> oh btw rubidum, what kind of warnings? gcc 4.2.1 gives none
13:41:29  * Roest fails at tab completion
13:42:04  <Rubidium> probably unused variables or empty blocks
13:42:26  <cjk> -Wall -Wformat=2 -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 ... run that
13:42:35  <cjk> then perhaps, -Wredundant-decls too
13:44:12  <Rubidium> that last one gives loads of warnings
13:44:53  <insulfrog> ok, I'm back
13:45:36  <Rubidium> seems it doesn't like compile time 'asserts'
13:46:01  <SmatZ> Roest: for (...); instead of for (...) { }
13:46:32  <SmatZ> gcc 4.3 gives warning for empty body of loops
13:46:32  <insulfrog> now what I was saying
13:46:39  <Alberth> Rubidium: those are inside the compiler :P
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13:47:23  <Roest> smatz but that's a construct which is pretty often used, not only by me
13:48:03  <peter1138> yes, just do " { }" instead of ";"
13:48:12  <peter1138> then it's an explicit empty body
13:48:25  <Alberth> SmatZ: Can't we keep the curly brackets? They are much better noticed than a semi-colon
13:48:55  <peter1138> Alberth: you read it the wrong way around :)
13:49:31  <Alberth> peter1138: noloc-imes a naht deciton retteb hcum era yehT ?stekcarb ylruc eht peek ew t'naC :ZtamS
13:49:42  <hylje> :o
13:49:43  <insulfrog> Now, I now download the latest patch for 'Yet Another PBS Patch' (YAPP) from you-know-where
13:49:59  <SmatZ> huh Alberth
13:50:13  <SmatZ> [15:48:04] <peter1138> yes, just do " { }" instead of ";"
13:50:31  <Roest> insulfrog are insisting in compiling it yourself, if not there's also windows binaries posted in that thread
13:50:36  <Lakie> That would be more logical as its easier to follow.
13:50:41  <Lakie> Even though both are valid.
13:51:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> "warnings" are not about "valid", they are about "people often get this wrong"
13:52:14  <Lakie> Heh, sorry, I've been toding too much c#
13:52:19  <peter1138> one of the reasons our coding style enforces { } for multiline ifs
13:52:31  <Lakie> (In which null statements are valid but will give warnings)
13:54:00  <Lakie> Without the { } though, only the first instruction would be done with the if...
13:54:23  <hylje> braces? pff.
13:54:32  <peter1138> Lakie: exactly
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13:55:33  <peter1138> one day i shall acquire commit rights to ttdpatch, to clean up its bit of C...
13:56:19  <FlashFF> hello
13:56:30  <Alberth> hai
13:56:32  <Lakie> Hehe
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13:56:52  <Lakie> First you would have to write the .diff file or patch.
13:57:16  <peter1138> write a diff? how insane
13:57:50  <peter1138> hmm, bee-season
13:58:16  <hylje> B
13:58:48  <Lakie> Errr...
13:58:57  <Lakie> I meant write the changes and generate a diff
13:58:59  <Lakie> Heh
13:59:40  <insulfrog> Now the latest patch is 'OpenTTD-r12934___yapp_r12810_v6_2_svn', bit I don't think that patch is compatible with OTTD build r12954, is it?
13:59:49  <insulfrog> *but
14:02:32  <Lakie> Depends on what it changes and the changes between the revisions.
14:02:51  <insulfrog> hmm...
14:05:54  <insulfrog> I'll try it anyway
14:06:14  * insulfrog backs up the build, then applies the patch
14:06:25  *** helb [~helb@] has joined #openttd
14:07:24  * insulfrog uses TortioseSVN to apply the patch
14:07:51  <Roest> computer will blow up
14:08:30  * insulfrog now attempt now to compile the build using Visual C++ Express
14:08:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> insulfrog: best you use tortoise to "update" to r12810 first
14:09:19  <Roest> nah the patch he uses is updated for 12934 already
14:10:28  <insulfrog> the build it its curent before I applied the patch
14:10:39  <insulfrog> (tried it earlier)
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14:13:12  * insulfrog starts the building process
14:17:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> oh... confusing naming scheme...
14:18:15  * insulfrog discovers there is 'png.h', 'zlib.h' and 'ft2build.h' missing from the project
14:18:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> did you try to build openttd without patch first?
14:18:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> did you get
14:20:15  * insulfrog tries building his backup
14:20:28  <insulfrog> stand by
14:21:22  * Roest stands by
14:21:41  * Rubidium keeps sitting
14:21:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> there is no use making a "backup", svn does that for you automatically
14:22:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> just use "revert" from the tortoise menu
14:22:35  <insulfrog> I normally back up manually (just in case :p )
14:22:37  <Rubidium> if it is important, then somebody has mirrored your data, otherwise it is not important
14:23:58  <insulfrog> still the same .h files are still missing
14:24:44  <Roest> now are they missing or no entry in the .vcproj files?
14:24:53  <insulfrog> (must be something that visual studio express can't handle)
14:25:02  <Rubidium> insulfrog: have you followed the manual?
14:25:53  * Roest remembers that dilbert comic, engineers don't read manuals
14:26:16  <insulfrog> I did but, I don't think I understood it properly
14:29:06  <insulfrog> I think I missed the files you mentioned :p
14:32:57  * insulfrog downloaded the files and unzips them
14:33:30  <Sacro> you need the .h files in an include\ folder
14:33:37  <Sacro> and the .dll in err
14:33:39  <Sacro> lib\
14:33:47  <insulfrog> cheers Sacro
14:34:00  * insulfrog salutes him :p
14:35:01  <Sacro> i use VS2005Pro myself
14:35:18  <Sacro> i do have 2008pro too
14:35:30  <insulfrog> I use Visual Express (since its free :p )
14:36:06  *** mynetdude|Away is now known as mynetdude
14:37:03  <Lakie> Sacro: .h in include\ and .lib in lib\, and finally the dll in the excutable's folder in one of the folders of the PATH environment variable.
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14:40:37  <Mihai>
14:40:54  <Mihai> what's the channel for dev server ?
14:41:01  *** Mihai is now known as ropiku
14:41:09  <Belugas> there is none, as far as i know
14:41:16  <Belugas> you have this channel, of course
14:42:04  <Rubidium> dev server?
14:42:06  <Rubidium> what dev server?
14:42:21  <ropiku> sorry, I mistaken with openttdcoop
14:43:19  <planetmaker> ropiku:
14:43:29  <ropiku> thank you, joined
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14:46:46  <FlashFF> Question: is there a openttd build that is a pure dedicated server? ie all of the extra stuff taken out and nicely optimised?
14:47:00  <Roest> nope
14:47:02  <FlashFF> dammit
14:47:13  <Ammler> heya, tried to make desync-debug build:
14:47:33  <Ammler> FlashFF: you could compile it self
14:47:55  <Ammler> but the size doesn't really matter
14:48:19  <FlashFF> i tore out all the extra stuff once, and made a nice server that auto reset and all that malarky, but due to a horrible hd fail i lost it all.  Back to square 1 i suppose lol
14:48:20  <Ammler> and you won't have performance advantages
14:48:36  <insulfrog> are you sure that the dll(s) came with the openttd-useful download?
14:48:42  <FlashFF> yeah  i was basically looking for a raw build i could alter
14:49:38  <FlashFF> My old version i added build in mysql support and a scheduler and such but the longest part of the whole thing was stripping out the extra bits
14:50:17  <FlashFF> note to self: backup more often
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14:52:47  <Ammler> FlashFF: well, you should also post your diffs to share such things
14:53:00  <Ammler> then you would have automatically a backup :P
14:54:36  <peter1138> aarrggghhhhh
14:54:38  <peter1138> it's too hot!
14:54:52  <Roest> it's too cold, sorry
14:54:58  <peter1138> wrong
14:55:03  <Roest> no you
14:55:04  <peter1138> it's too hot
14:55:34  <FlashFF> lol dunno how well the diff woulda worked,  i really ripped it apart
14:55:37  <Roest> that whole global warming thing is a lie
14:55:51  <FlashFF> but the plan was to share it once it worked well enough
14:56:06  *** mynetdude is now known as mynetdude|Away
14:57:28  <FlashFF> bugger
14:57:32  <FlashFF> the world hates me
14:57:53  <hylje> bugger all
14:58:02  <FlashFF> my VirtualPC linux install is borked by the looks of it
14:58:12  <Roest>
14:59:05  <Ammler> HEEEELLLLPPP!
14:59:49  *** mynetdude|Away is now known as mynetdude
14:59:57  <peter1138> it's about 35°C... in my greenhouse
15:00:00  <peter1138> with the door open
15:00:13  <Roest> lol
15:00:28  <Roest> i can imagine you sitting in the green house with a laptop
15:00:45  <peter1138> the other thermometer says it's 25°C
15:00:52  <peter1138> no, i have legs
15:01:16  <peter1138>
15:01:56  <Roest>
15:03:15  <insulfrog> hmm... something is not right
15:04:12  <Roest> same not right as earlier or something different not right?
15:04:21  <insulfrog> where do you put these 'include' and 'lib' folders?
15:04:27  <Roest> if it's the latte you could say you're making progress
15:04:30  <Roest> +r
15:05:22  <insulfrog> (in your uncompiled OTTD folder or in your Visual C++ folder?)
15:06:01  <Sacro> latter
15:07:05  <insulfrog> visual c++ folder
15:07:36  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r12955 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix (r12858): compilation with desync debug was broken
15:09:09  <Sacro> why do i have VJ#
15:09:49  *** ropiku [~chatzilla@] has joined #openttd
15:10:51  <insulfrog> don't know, perhaps you was studying Java :)
15:11:12  <Sacro> C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 8\VC
15:11:15  <Sacro> is where i put them
15:11:40  * Sacro fancies some simsig
15:12:08  <insulfrog> sorted
15:12:54  <insulfrog> now, I have to figure out where it is compiled to
15:13:20  <Roest> that's usually easy to find out
15:13:45  <insulfrog> 060 beta 5?
15:14:24  <Roest> unlikely
15:19:30  <insulfrog> I found the exe in the debug folder :)
15:19:53  <cjk> see, msvc is so complex
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15:21:46  <insulfrog> I know that there are files to copy from the original TTD, but other than that, is there anything else to do?
15:22:14  <ropiku> insulfrog: no
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15:25:54  <insulfrog> (no language packs?)
15:26:35  <insulfrog> hmm...
15:27:02  <cjk> included.
15:27:14  <Sacro> heh
15:27:19  <Sacro> you need to move the lang/*.lng
15:27:29  <cjk> just $PACKAGEMANAGER install openttd
15:27:52  <Roest> ./configure make
15:28:08  <cjk> ./configure: unknown argument: make
15:28:14  <Roest> crap
15:28:26  <blathijs> Just ./configure
15:28:29  <cjk> at least do it the right way
15:28:30  <blathijs> and then make
15:28:44  <cjk> ./configure --install-dir=$PWD/rt && make install;
15:28:56  <Roest> now i know why it's not working
15:29:05  <cjk> Roest:
15:29:30  <Roest> lol i like that site
15:32:02  <Sacro> ./configure &; make
15:32:14  <blathijs> Sacro: That's a bad idea
15:32:19  <blathijs> either do && or ;
15:32:29  <Sacro> blathijs: depends how quick the configure is :p
15:32:31  <blathijs> Now it will configure in the background while starting to make immediately :-)
15:32:49  <cjk> Sacro: syntax error
15:32:57  <Sacro> yeah true
15:32:59  <cjk> so it's not really an idea that eats your disk
15:33:01  <Sacro> ./configure & ; make
15:33:11  <cjk> still syntax error
15:33:15  <cjk> it's _either_ & or ;
15:33:19  <blathijs> Bash doesn't grok empty statements then?
15:33:29  <cjk> well, then _write_ an empty statement the right way
15:33:36  <cjk> ./configure & :; make
15:33:46  <cjk> but then again, ./configue & make is just faster (and wrong btw)
15:34:02  <cjk> running make while configure is not finished =>
15:34:33  <Sacro>
15:35:23  <cjk>
15:36:28  <cjk> and
15:36:30  <Sacro> don't hassle the hoff
15:36:45  <Sacro> <3 collegehumour
15:37:08  <cjk> hasselhoff is the better rickroll :p
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15:43:00  <insulfrog> ok, I have got it to run
15:43:08  <Roest> grats
15:43:09  <insulfrog> (finally)
15:43:51  <insulfrog> now, testing to make sure everything is working
15:45:07  <insulfrog> wait a minute
15:45:31  * Roest gets his PBS for dummies
15:45:42  <insulfrog> there is a file that is not readable
15:46:04  <insulfrog> but the debug window does not say
15:47:08  <insulfrog> (there must be something missing)
15:47:26  * Roest takes his grats back
15:47:49  <insulfrog> lol
15:47:53  <insulfrog> :p
15:49:09  <insulfrog> it is playable
15:50:19  *** GoneWacko [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:51:18  * insulfrog wonders what file could be missing
15:55:13  <Sacro> cjk:
15:55:13  <insulfrog> any ideas what file could be missing?
15:55:38  * Roest looks into crystal ball
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15:57:49  * Sacro scratches crystal ball
15:58:50  *** GoneWacko [] has joined #openttd
15:58:51  <Roest> it's cloudy
15:59:01  <Roest> and has a scratch
16:04:17  <glx> <Sacro> you need to move the lang/*.lng <-- no you need to move the exe in bin
16:05:41  *** Zahl [] has joined #openttd
16:05:48  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: belugas * r12956 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Code-style application on switch-case aligment
16:06:23  <insulfrog> cheers (gives everyone a thumbs up)
16:06:53  * insulfrog goes and tests it
16:09:10  *** Roest [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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16:12:08  <insulfrog> now, according to the YAPP thread, there is a 'patch' option, which allows you to turn on PBS signals and it is located under the 'construction' tab
16:12:19  <Sacro> <3 yapp
16:13:00  <insulfrog> (YAPP = Yet Another PBS Patch)
16:13:03  <Sacro> i know
16:13:16  <Sacro> i've been playing OpenTTD for years
16:13:20  <Sacro> since 0.3.6 iirc
16:13:29  <insulfrog> I cannot seem to find that option
16:13:38  <Sacro> i don't recall that one
16:14:39  <Belugas> first contact i had with OpenTTD was with 0.3.4
16:14:49  <Sacro> Belugas: yes, i might have used 0.3.4
16:14:52  <Belugas> a few weeks after, 0.3.6 was out
16:15:29  *** lolEee [] has joined #openttd
16:15:40  <insulfrog> Sacro: its here where it says it: (first post)
16:16:14  *** lolEee is now known as loldragon
16:20:27  <insulfrog> hmm...
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16:40:19  <insulfrog> to get PBS signals, no debut that I manually need to add 2 lines in the openttd.cfg file
16:43:55  <peter1138> no you don't
16:44:01  <peter1138> and doubt is not spelled debut
16:45:36  <insulfrog> o...k...
16:48:31  <insulfrog> then how do you get PBS signals to work then?, I've applied the patch, built OTTD, now what?
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17:07:39  <insulfrog> I think I have REALLY missed something here...
17:08:30  <Progman> enable them in the settings
17:08:39  <Progman> there are new patch options
17:08:52  <Progman> first one is "show reserved tracks" which should be on
17:09:14  <Progman> if you dont have such an option you haven't build it properbly
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17:12:40  <mabako> I wonder, could anyone explain me why my self-compiled linux server is unable to load any savegames, but the windows client (with vs2005 or buildottd) can load them fine?
17:13:06  <insulfrog> wait a minute..., I think I forgotten something
17:13:59  <Belugas> mabako : it's very hard to answer.  We do not even kow what you've changed in your sources
17:14:14  <Sacro> lack of zlib
17:14:15  <Belugas> nor the error message ou had
17:14:20  * Sacro wins
17:15:53  <mabako> well, i want to use something like the shared tracks patch for a more recent version (r12935), and have changed the feerder_share line in cargopacket.cpp to the following:
17:15:54  <mabako> 	SLE_CONDVAR(CargoPacket, feeder_share[0], SLE_INT64, 0, 95),
17:15:54  <mabako> 	SLE_CONDARR(CargoPacket, feeder_share,    SLE_INT64, 8, 96, SL_MAX_VERSION),
17:16:29  <mabako> and i just get (when starting the server with -g)
17:16:30  <mabako> Game Load Failed
17:16:30  <mabako> File not readable
17:16:30  <mabako> dbg: [net] Loading requested map failed, aborting
17:17:09  <mabako> I've changed the savegame-version to 96 also, and I've no idea what might be the problem now
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17:18:45  <insulfrog> ok, I 'think' I have got it, just need to test (don't celebrate too soon :p )
17:20:07  <insulfrog> if all goes well, I might play something else, like SimSig :D
17:20:14  <Sacro> <3 SimSig
17:21:10  <insulfrog> anyway, with this new PBS goes well, we can easily replicate several areas of SimSig :)
17:21:31  <insulfrog> (since they don;t use pre-signals :p )
17:21:37  <Sacro> insulfrog: yes, i got bored and replicated Kings Cross
17:21:38  <insulfrog> *don't
17:22:16  <Sacro> though i get upset at the lack of ablilty to chose between a crossover and a single/double slip
17:22:23  * insulfrog thinks his bad fast typing is getting to the best of him, lol
17:25:09  <insulfrog> i got to go, bye :)
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17:26:38  <Belugas> mabako, exact same code on both machine?  one works not the other?  then, it might be related to what Sacro told you
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17:26:57  <Phantasm> Hiya Belugas.
17:26:57  <Belugas> best way to know : revert the linux version, try clean build
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17:27:02  <Belugas> hey Phantasm
17:28:04  <mabako> I reverted it and applied the patch afterwards really
17:28:15  <Belugas> no no no...
17:28:22  <Belugas> i mean, revert it totally,
17:28:26  <Belugas> built clean
17:28:28  <Belugas> and test ckean
17:28:36  <Belugas> clean
17:29:04  <mabako> erm... I checked out with svn, then copied the file into another dir and applied the patch there
17:29:24  <mabako> and btw...
17:29:25  <mabako> ii  zlib1g         1.2.3-13       compression library - runtime
17:29:25  <mabako> ii  zlib1g-dev     1.2.3-13       compression library - development
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17:29:37  <Belugas> have you ever tried a clean build before?
17:29:52  <mabako> how do i build it 'clean'?
17:30:12  <Belugas> import from svn, do not apply any patch, compile and run
17:30:31  <mabako> actually not
17:30:37  <Belugas> YOu may have to translate to linux wording, as i only compile using msvc
17:30:41  <mabako> not on linux at all
17:30:49  <Belugas> you may try that first :)
17:31:07  <mabako> I'll have a look
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17:42:04  <mabako> Belugas: it works with a clean build, i can save & load games afterwards fine
17:42:50  <Belugas> thus, there is something that is broken on the patch
17:43:22  <Belugas> and it means that Sacro has lost!
17:48:01  <mabako>
17:50:02  <dih> # an the all go hand in hand...
17:59:44  <Belugas> +		SLE_CONDVAR(Vehicle, shared_length,    SLE_UINT32, 82, SL_MAX_VERSION),  <----  82 might be a little too low...
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18:00:54  <insulfrog> I'm back :)
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18:03:07  <Belugas> what the heel is that stuff been done on depot_gui.cpp???
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18:03:41  * Belugas resumes some real work...
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18:20:09  <mabako> Belugas: that's there so you can sell your vehicle in other player's depots
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18:22:50  <Belugas> 82 is not the starting version number where the shared_lenght variable is declared?
18:22:55  <Belugas> if so, it is wrong
18:23:24  <mabako> i see
18:24:13  <mabako> I should have a look, but i'm not quite certain whetever that is really the reason why i can't load the games I've saved with the same server-executeable (savegame-version being 96) before
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18:25:31  <Belugas> i dion;t know, mabako.  It's just someting taht seems wrong for me
18:25:49  <Belugas> i cannot try nor compile (nor want to) the patch, just looking at it
18:26:36  <mabako> I'll give it a try
18:26:51  <mabako> it was sure wrong
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18:28:19  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12957 /trunk/ (config.lib src/network/network_client.cpp src/saveload.cpp): -Codechange: do not misuse snprintf when you just want to copy a string, also use DEBUG instead of fprintf in one case.
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18:34:25  <mabako> the server still can't read the saved files, however if i save the file at my windows pc locally, i can load it fine
18:35:20  <mabako> oh, might actually work now
18:37:59  * insulfrog is on #openttdcoop server
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18:39:27  <Dotted> is there anyway to upgrade all your trains to a different engine in one go?
18:39:56  <mabako> click on the train icon (vehicle list)
18:39:59  <mrfrenzy> yes, look at the bottom of the window that shows all your trains
18:40:11  <mabako> in the bottom, there's this dropdown with 'replace vehicles'
18:41:12  <Dotted> ah lol, thx
18:42:37  <ln>
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19:02:23  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12958 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: Allocate sprites reserved by GRM in advance of 'Action 1' sprites, giving much less chance of GRM reservation failure if lots of NewGRF sets are loaded.
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19:24:48  <Wolf01> hello
19:25:33  <SmatZ> hello Wolf01
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19:45:17  <Pinchiukas> damn I can't find the thread with the original ttd graphics, anyone can help?
19:46:07  <SmatZ> Pinchiukas: ?
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19:46:53  <peter1138> :D
19:46:53  <Pinchiukas> SmatZ: I was talking about the original ttd graphics
19:47:02  <Pinchiukas> were new open source graphics made already?
19:47:08  <peter1138> for original data files, try a local shop
19:47:12  <peter1138> or ebay
19:47:19  <Pinchiukas> someone gave me a link to a post on the forum
19:47:24  <Sacro> Prof_Frink knows by heart
19:47:24  * Tefad coughs
19:47:30  <Pinchiukas> I can no longer find it though
19:47:33  <peter1138> or look for a place to buy on google
19:49:47  <orudge> Pinchiukas: that link was removed
19:49:50  <orudge> well
19:49:54  <orudge> there was a link removed yesterday
19:49:57  <orudge> with the graphics uploaded
19:50:08  <Pinchiukas> I just found a link and downloaded it
19:50:20  <Belugas> THIEF!
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19:50:50  <Pinchiukas> hey, I haven't used it yet
19:50:56  <Pinchiukas> does that make me a thief already?
19:50:59  <Sacro> yes
19:51:06  <Pinchiukas> aw, man!
19:51:07  * Sacro drops a Belugas on Pinchiukas
19:51:10  <Pinchiukas> lol
19:51:16  <Pinchiukas> I guess I should go turn myself in
19:51:21  <Sacro> yes you should
19:52:00  <Pinchiukas> by the way, today I noticed that there are a lot of transport simulation games out there, can somebody tell me which are more popular/better? :)
19:52:14  <Belugas> better? OPENTTD!!!
19:52:40  <Tefad> Pinchiukas: troll.
19:52:48  <Tefad> get back under your bridge ; )
19:52:59  <peter1138> i've only played locomotion and ttd
19:53:05  <peter1138> so that's hardly a good sample
19:53:06  <Pinchiukas> Tefad: I don't know... people say I shouldn't, why would I listen to you?
19:53:21  <Pinchiukas> peter1138: what were your impressions?
19:53:40  <Pinchiukas> I looked at some 3d game videos, looks repulsive
19:53:58  <mabako> imo you don't really need a 3d interface
19:54:00  <peter1138> of locomotion? not very good
19:54:08  <peter1138> sure, nice bridges
19:54:10  <peter1138> but that's about it
19:54:28  <Pinchiukas> mabako: I think it's a matter of taste
19:54:54  <Pinchiukas> and sometimes it would be really nice if I could turn the view in openttd 90 degrees to see better
19:55:09  <Belugas> not at all, 3d is a vision, an approach... not to mention code been twisted in and out
19:55:26  <mabako> turning it 90° doesn't make it 3d
19:55:36  <Pinchiukas> I know, that's why I said it
19:56:00  <Pinchiukas> that's what makes it easy to implement
19:56:05  <Pinchiukas> ...somewhat :)
19:56:06  * Sacro can turn OpenTTD 90 degrees
19:56:17  <Belugas> hate 3d, makes the game one step closer to reality
19:56:18  <Belugas> sucks
19:56:21  <Belugas> prrrrrrrt
19:56:22  <Pinchiukas> rolling your display doesn't count Sacro
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19:56:27  <Sacro> Prof_Frink: damn
19:56:43  <Pinchiukas> Belugas: try tetris or pong, it's as far from reality as it gets
19:56:53  <Belugas> those i like
19:57:03  <Belugas> chess too...
19:57:04  <trd> Play ASCII pong on IRC and lose.
19:57:09  <Pinchiukas> lol
19:57:15  * Belugas has a chess game on his cellphone
19:57:35  <Pinchiukas> so openttd hasn't got a complete graphics set yet?
19:58:13  <Belugas> has it?
19:59:51  <Pinchiukas> so?
20:00:39  <peter1138> nope
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20:04:06  <Pinchiukas> aww
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20:11:00  <Wolf01> wow, traffic lights works like a charm with timetables, vehicles always have different late times :O
20:11:31  <Wolf01> hey a pikachu!
20:11:35  <Wolf01> ehm... not
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20:14:32  <JelloX> GOTTA CATCH EM ALL
20:14:34  <Roujin> be sure to drop me a note if you have any suggestion or bug report regarding the traffic lights :)
20:15:05  <Roujin> good night
20:15:07  <Sionide> ohh, are traffic lights in the nightly builds?
20:15:11  <Wolf01> no
20:15:18  <Wolf01> I just compiled the patch
20:15:24  <Wolf01> gn Roujin
20:15:31  <Sionide> likely to be some time soon? sounds like a "big thing"
20:15:52  <peter1138> unlikely
20:16:04  <Sionide> i lurk here most of time, till a "big thing" hits the nightlies then i get into it and start playing a huge map to death
20:16:10  <JelloX> traffic lights? sweet
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20:21:48  <orudge> Nobody here wanting to come to the TT meet? Feel free to vote:
20:21:56  <orudge> but only vote if you're going to actually come :P
20:23:08  <Belugas> Anyone would like to help organising a meeting in Montreal at the same date?
20:23:08  <Wolf01> London? too far away
20:23:26  <Wolf01> Anyone on my garden?
20:23:28  <Rubidium> hmm
20:23:31  <Rubidium> what would be cheaper?
20:23:31  <Bjarni> England itself is too far away
20:23:36  <Bjarni> so is Montreal
20:23:40  <blathijs> Hmm, if it wasn't for the North Sea, I might consider :-)
20:23:41  <Rubidium> a ticket to Montreal or England?
20:23:52  <blathijs> Rubidium: Dunno, might be so much different
20:23:52  <Rubidium> blathijs: E'de?
20:23:55  <Bjarni> Wolf01's garden sounds nice though
20:24:10  <blathijs> Rubidium: Sounds fun :-)
20:24:23  <peter1138> hmm, £296 return to montreal
20:24:35  <peter1138> ooh
20:24:37  <peter1138> £215!
20:24:40  <peter1138> er... tomorrow
20:24:58  <Bjarni> I can go to Heathrow for like £50
20:25:07  <Bjarni> but I will not use planes that cheap
20:25:18  <Belugas> i can go to montreal for... nothing!
20:25:21  * blathijs can go to sleep for free, so I think I'll just do that
20:25:27  <blathijs> Good night everyone :-)
20:25:38  <Belugas> :)
20:25:43  <Bjarni> also getting to London might not be the expensive part of a London trip
20:26:23  <Sionide> hmm
20:26:28  <peter1138> don't worry, orudge will provide women
20:26:34  <orudge> Getting to London from Europe can generally be done quite cheaply
20:26:36  <Tefad> womens!
20:26:39  <orudge> getting around London, maybe not so cheap :P
20:26:45  <orudge> Yes, both real and inflatable
20:26:45  <SmatZ> did I hear "women"?
20:26:46  <orudge> book in advance.
20:26:51  <peter1138> or was it sacro dressed up?
20:27:15  <Sionide> who's played ottd on a train before?
20:27:20  <orudge> /me
20:27:22  <orudge> /me
20:27:23  <orudge> bah
20:27:23  <Sionide> /me
20:27:24  <orudge> I have.
20:27:24  <Sionide> :D
20:27:29  <orudge> well
20:27:36  <orudge> I've not played OpenTTD "properly" on a train
20:27:40  <Sionide> i designed the station we stopped at for ages.. by looking around and making it
20:27:46  <orudge> I've played normal TTD (or TTDPatch) on a train, and a plane, and a boat
20:28:08  <DaleStan> Just missing a bus.
20:28:14  <orudge> Buses are too cramped
20:28:14  <Bjarni> what will actually happen at such a meeting?
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20:28:20  <orudge> Bjarni: well, last year
20:28:24  <orudge> we talked
20:28:24  <orudge> ate
20:28:25  <orudge> drank
20:28:30  <orudge> some people played some TTD
20:28:36  <orudge> this year, Andel is organising some games
20:28:42  <orudge> but otherwise, I imagine it'll be much the same
20:28:45  <orudge> "socialising"
20:28:54  <Bjarni> will there be women?
20:28:57  <Tefad> IRC in person.
20:29:01  <orudge> there were women last year, Bjarni
20:29:06  <orudge> although, they're both married now
20:29:07  <orudge> so bad luck
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20:29:23  <Bjarni> Helen showed up?
20:29:27  <Sionide> i could persuade my gf to tag along.. "yes do you wanna come on a day trip to london with me?"
20:29:31  <Rubidium> maybe ask Karen!
20:29:35  <Sionide> "oh these guys? i don't know them!"
20:29:55  <orudge> Bjarni: Helen and Andel's then-girlfriend Natasha
20:30:10  <Bjarni> I think I will pass on this trip
20:30:16  <orudge> who that very night became pregnant with their child, much to GoneWacko's amusement (seeing as he was in the house at the time)
20:30:22  <orudge> Rubidium: maybe ;)
20:30:32  <orudge> Sionide: heh
20:30:43  <Sionide> i could meet GoneWacko.. that'd be weird.
20:30:46  <orudge> well, last year, things seemed fine enough, we weren't too scary
20:30:57  <Sionide> and orudge as well actually.. odd.
20:31:03  <orudge> :P
20:31:11  <Sionide> to me you are just words on a screen, damnit.. don't shatter my illusions
20:31:17  <Rubidium> last (O)TTD I was at was kinda small
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20:31:18  <Sionide> well i will consider it when i know what date it's gonna be
20:31:37  <Rubidium> +meet
20:31:56  <Bjarni> I just realised something.... how do you tell the difference between oven and Owen when saying out the words loud?
20:31:56  <orudge> Sionide: feel free to vote on your available days!
20:31:59  <orudge> if you're actually going to come
20:32:02  <orudge> Bjarni: er, we speak English
20:32:05  <orudge> and not foreignese :P
20:32:07  <orudge> w = double-you
20:32:08  <orudge> v = vee
20:32:13  *** mynetdude|Away is now known as mynetdude
20:32:33  <Tefad> DOUBLE-V
20:32:37  <Tefad> en francais
20:32:40  *** mynetdude is now known as mynetdude|Away
20:32:45  <Sionide> w = "wuh" sound
20:32:55  <Tefad> except in german
20:32:59  *** Sionide is now known as oven
20:33:00  <oven> lol
20:33:12  <Tefad> volkswagon is funny ; )
20:33:21  * Rubidium turns the oven to 300 K
20:33:27  <Sacro> brr cold
20:33:28  <Tefad> aww, not over 9000
20:33:32  <oven> K!
20:33:35  *** oven is now known as Sionide
20:33:39  * Sionide jumps out
20:33:40  <Belugas> quiche time!
20:33:47  <Bjarni> <Tefad> except in german <-- it was so funny when we had a German professor lecturing in maths and he had to talk about two variables called v and w (he lectured in Danish)
20:33:48  <Belugas> K?
20:33:48  <Tefad> isn't 300K like... room temperature
20:33:51  <Rubidium> not from oven (kinda chilly)
20:34:05  <Bjarni> yes he did call w for v and stopped when he reached v right after that
20:34:15  <Rubidium> 26.85 degrees Celsius
20:34:26  <Rubidium> or 80-ish degrees Fahrenheit
20:34:26  <Bjarni> more than 20°C is kinda hot
20:34:31  <Sionide> so it was 396K here in the UK today!
20:34:33  <Tefad> yeah, room tepmperature
20:34:39  <Tefad> wow wtf
20:34:40  <Sionide> erm
20:34:43  <Sionide> 296* also
20:34:58  <Bjarni> room temperature should be around 18°C
20:35:11  <Rubidium> Bjarni: depends heavily on the country
20:35:12  <Bjarni> hotter rooms makes you less efficient and wastes energy
20:35:13  <Tefad> depends on how much money you have.
20:35:21  <Tefad> wastes energy?!
20:35:29  <Rubidium> room temperature in Japan is 27-ish
20:35:41  <Tefad> if i didn't pump the heat outside it'd be like.. crazy hot in here
20:35:45  <Rubidium> 25 degrees in trains (yes, they have thermometers in the trains)
20:36:17  <Bjarni> Rubidium: with what outdoor temperatures?
20:36:20  <peter1138> oh bjarni is a *one*
20:36:23  <peter1138> oven / owen indeed
20:36:29  <Tefad> 18C is brrrrrr
20:36:50  <Tefad> 27 is tolerable
20:36:54  <Bjarni> I didn't knew that brrrrrr means fine :/
20:37:09  <Bjarni> well you learn something new every day
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20:37:16  <Tefad> 20C is what i generally use
20:37:21  <Tefad> unless i'm poor
20:37:21  <Belugas> yeah, we, nordic people, have thick skins who can bare colder temps
20:37:29  <Tefad> then it drops to 18C or so
20:37:37  <Tefad> i also have a wife from southern US
20:37:48  <peter1138> 20 is uncomfortable
20:37:54  <Bjarni> <Tefad> 27 is tolerable <-- I would get almost naked and lie on the bed (with no blanket or anything) and wait for the temperature to stop
20:37:55  <Tefad> who's acceptable temperature range is a small band within my own.
20:37:58  <ln> Bjarni!
20:38:02  <peter1138> 27... i'd die
20:38:05  <Bjarni> and hope that it drops before I melt
20:38:06  <Rubidium> Bjarni: between -10 and 25 degrees
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20:38:26  <Rubidium> Celsius ofcourse
20:38:41  <Tefad> it's at least 25C in here right now
20:39:06  <Belugas> -25(no winds) +37(strong winds) is bareble
20:39:14  <Bjarni> we used to have 22°C in the trains... now they added aircondition so you have to wear more cloth inside the trains than outside during mid summer
20:39:23  <Tefad> don't care to waste money on moving the heat out.
20:39:26  <Bjarni> like you should wear a jacket in the train but only in the train
20:39:40  <orudge> then you get outside the train and realise how bloody hot it is
20:39:41  <Bjarni> now that's silly
20:39:45  <orudge> I had that when I was at some government office in Brazil
20:39:49  <orudge> was quite normal outside
20:39:54  <orudge> then went inside with the air conditioning
20:39:57  <orudge> came out an hour later and was sweltering
20:40:02  <peter1138> i have that in my car...
20:40:09  <Tefad> i have that in my house.
20:40:11  <Tefad> ; )
20:40:21  <orudge> my car is a bit less advanced than peter1138
20:40:23  <orudge> 's
20:40:24  <orudge> well, it was
20:40:30  <orudge> I don't know what car I will have in June :o
20:40:33  <Tefad> 27C with very low humidity is quite tolerable
20:40:47  <Bjarni> my cooling device is based on holes in the walls that can be opened and closed as needed
20:40:51  <Bjarni> those are called windows
20:40:55  <Tefad> i grew up with 27C cooling in summer
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20:41:04  <Tefad> though it wasn't so low humidity : (
20:41:16  <Tefad> Bjarni: those would be heating devices here.
20:41:23  <Tefad> and we try to keep them barred up.
20:41:34  <Wolf01> 'night
20:41:38  <ln> Tefad: 27 coulombs?
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20:41:46  <Bjarni> they work specially well when you open one in each end of the room
20:41:52  <Tefad> no, i don't have time to write the deg symbol
20:42:00  <Tefad> nor patience to figure out the deg-C symbol
20:42:14  <Tefad> nor am i going to convert everything to kelvin to avoid needing deg all together.
20:42:15  <Bjarni> Tefad: alt+q
20:42:19  <peter1138> °C is usually enough
20:42:25  <Tefad> that closes the window.
20:42:29  <Tefad> no wait
20:42:33  <Tefad> it puts me at window 11
20:42:34  <Bjarni> then get a mac :P
20:42:35  <orudge> 20℃
20:42:39  <Tefad> fuck macs
20:42:49  <orudge> I wouldn't do that, Tefad
20:42:50  <peter1138> yes, there's ℃ too
20:42:59  <orudge> gets rather messy
20:43:00  <Tefad> the context is temperature
20:43:04  <ln> orudge: i'm pretty sure that's one of the backwards-compatibility unicode characters that are not supposed to be used.
20:43:14  <Tefad> 27C is easily seen as a temperature in this context
20:43:15  <Bjarni> Tefad: fucking a disk drive or optical drive might be bad for your member
20:43:27  <peter1138> Bjarni... grow up?
20:43:34  <Sacro> peter1138: seconded
20:43:35  <Tefad> if we were talking about electronics AND cooling, then sure i could see the need for specifying degrees.
20:43:52  <Bjarni> at school there were jokes about a certain guy who should be in love with his computer
20:44:03  <orudge> ln: well, I'd usually use U+00B0 + 'C' rather than U+2103
20:44:03  <Tefad> yeah, the deg-c symbol is backward compatibility from asia i think
20:44:05  <Bjarni> and there were a story about him fucking his disk drive
20:44:15  <Tefad>
20:44:16  <Bjarni> I don't think he did so though
20:44:35  <peter1138> nobody cares
20:45:21  <Sacro> *plonk*
20:47:20  <Maedhros> hmm. anyone know of a grf to allow the default ships to carry fuel oil (from pbi) ?
20:47:44  * Maedhros wishes he'd noticed that they didn't *before* building that harbour...
20:47:59  <Tefad> lol.
20:50:51  <Rubidium> Maedhros: "Maedhros' PBI aware fuel oil carrying ship set"?
20:51:27  <Maedhros> hehe
20:51:41  <Maedhros> yeah, i guess i'll have to start delving into the murky world of cargos
20:53:01  <Belugas> diving... murky...
20:53:06  <Belugas> loves the sound of that...
20:53:12  * Belugas splouches
20:54:30  <peter1138> feh, just set a refit mask of (uint32)-1 ;)
20:54:53  <glx> that's MAX_UINT32
20:55:06  <peter1138> feh, just set a refit mask of MAX_UINT32 ;)
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21:09:11  <Holzberger> Heya All, I have a question for the developpers of OTTD, or those who can also answer my question...   Are the developpers currently working on toll booths? Or are there plans to start soon?
21:09:16  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r12959 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Fix: don't assume no production when the first produced cargo is invalid in industries directory
21:09:44  <glx> Holzberger: no and no
21:10:40  <Holzberger> Do you recall if someone did ever do something with toll booth (and I dont refer to someone who made a louzy drawing?)
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21:17:45  <mabako> my implentation of shared tracks uses waypoints as kind of tollports atm
21:18:00  <mabako> thought that's bad because you can't have multiple tiles - one waypoint
21:19:59  <mabako> for getting cash, it's fine however
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21:34:05  <Holzberger> hmmm mabako... I see your tread now... Maybe it is nice to see it develop... Thx for the answers btw :)
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21:34:41  <mabako> I've not even created a thread on the forums
21:36:31  <mabako> and tbh, I wouldn't know how how i could 'suggest' the pathfinder to find a waypoint which is multiple tiles large
21:37:02  <mabako> or.. pretends to be, and where every waypoint has a pointer to the next/prev. waypoint in order
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21:54:17  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12960 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: handle return values of (some) file system related functions.
21:59:36  *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
22:03:14  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r12961 /trunk/src/ (oldloader.cpp saveload.cpp saveload.h): -Codechange: store the type of savegame we are loading in a global variable
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22:22:34  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r12962 /trunk/src/oldloader.cpp: -Fix (r12961): forgot one break
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22:26:44  <Ammler> [22:47] <Maedhros> hmm. anyone know of a grf to allow the default ships to carry fuel oil (from pbi) ? <-- doesn't newships carry everything?
22:27:03  <Ammler> oh, just left
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22:35:45  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12963 /trunk/src/ (fileio.cpp network/network_client.cpp): -Fix (r12960): loading some NewGRFs could cause an infinite loop.
22:37:33  <Sacro> @seen Bjarni
22:37:33  <DorpsGek> Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 1 hour, 53 minutes, and 17 seconds ago: <Bjarni> I don't think he did so though
22:37:35  <Sacro> hmmm
22:37:47  <SmatZ> do you miss him?
22:37:53  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r12964 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Codechange: rewrite callback 37 related code so it will be easier to add supported windows
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22:42:18  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r12965 /trunk/src/ (industry_gui.cpp lang/english.txt): -Codechange: add support for callback 37 in industries directory window
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22:43:43  <Sacro> SmatZ: yes
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22:48:01  <peter1138> hm
22:48:06  <peter1138> i don't miss bjarni
22:48:08  <peter1138> i miss yapp
22:49:33  <Sacro> I MISS YAPP TOO
22:49:35  <Sacro> but ooh yay
22:49:37  <Sacro> Frostregen_!
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22:53:25  *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
22:54:05  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r12966 /trunk/src/lang/ (38 files in 2 dirs): -Update: apply english.txt changes from r12965 to other languages
22:58:48  <Bjarni>  <peter1138> i don't miss bjarni <-- there is no reason to miss me when I'm around ;)
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23:04:57  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r12967 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Fix (r12966): my lang update script failed
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