Config
Log for #openttd on 2nd June 2008:
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01:46:27  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r13355 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_gui.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix (r13300): GUI glitches caused by too much 'optimisation'
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05:14:50  <kajo> Hello, is anyone there?
05:16:15  <kajo> Anyone? I am at a loss about the tgrf files (???) or whatever they are that I need that are the graphics files? I don't understand where they are/what the heck is the deal with those...
05:17:08  <Ammler> kajo: did you read the readme?
05:17:20  <Ammler> good morning btw. :-)
05:17:50  <kajo> ammler, yes I did, and only became more confused as I went on.
05:17:54  <kajo> Good morning to you also.
05:18:24  <Ammler> do you have a copy of TTD?
05:18:25  <kajo> I can't find the damn files- do I have to download them separately? Do I just have to move them from one folder to the other?
05:18:46  <kajo> I had the DOS one years ago, but I'm on an ubuntu system now.
05:19:44  <Ammler> @grfs
05:19:44  <DorpsGek> Ammler: original grf files: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=3407
05:19:45  <DorpsGek> Ammler: newgrf files: http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/
05:20:21  <Ammler> kajo: I would use windows grfs, It is better for MP games...
05:21:21  <kajo> Ammler, I don't have a preference, I just don't understand what the deal is with the grfs, and why the runaround is being given.
05:21:34  <kajo> I understand they are the graphics files?
05:21:58  <kajo> thanks for the URL though, I was looking in the forum...
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05:27:09  <kajo> ammler, I still don't understand. I went to the first link, and the only thing that would look potentially promising is a .rar, but that's windows... "TTD original graphics:" it says. What the heck is the deal with these files?
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05:43:05  <Pikka> kajo: extract the files from the .rar into the /data subdirectory.  did you really read the readme? :O
05:43:46  <kajo> pikka, I really did. It didn't ever mention downloading a separate rar or anything, just starts talking about these files that cannot be found anywhere...
05:44:33  <Pikka> well the understanding is that you already have a legit copy of ttd. ;)
05:46:56  <kajo> Well, the frustrating thing for me is that I have the rights to these files because I do. But in the readme, it should at least credibly demonstrate it assumes you have the legit copy, I mean... I was just in the dark. A statement in that area along the lines of "These files are understood to already be on your system because you already have the CD; if you have lost your copy of the CD, but have the rights to the data for personal us
05:46:56  <kajo> e, they can be found online if you are persistent." would have sufficed.
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06:42:50  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13356 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp economy_type.h): -Codechange: Incorrect documentation and variable type for inflation rates
06:44:18  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13357 /trunk/src/yapf/ (8 files): -Codechange: add constness to YAPF.
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07:43:05  <Wolf01> hello
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08:34:01  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13358 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: split next order determination and conditional order processing functionality from the order handling. Patch based on work by michi_cc.
08:34:14  <Noldo> is this yapp related?
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08:34:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, because apparently yapp is bad :p
08:35:11  <Noldo> huh?
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08:36:40  <Rubidium> just cherry picking some cleanup parts from the yapp patch
08:36:51  <Rubidium> makes the yapp patch smaller
08:37:10  <Rubidium> and more likely that it doesn't break by a commit
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08:42:01  <peter1138> hmm, annoying
08:42:07  <peter1138> vista has decided i can remove my primary hdd
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08:44:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> "hmm, annoying, vista [...]"
08:45:42  <peter1138> :)
08:45:43  <peter1138> heh
08:45:51  <peter1138> and just annoyed some ... fashion muppet
08:45:53  <peter1138> +s
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08:47:10  <peter1138> Liz> Yves Saint Laurent has died, a true genius :(
08:47:11  <peter1138> petererer> much like newton, einstein, galileo, brunel, etc
08:47:44  <peter1138> genius!
08:47:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> certainly ;)
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12:44:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> Belugas: yes, it's one of the greatest bands ever ;)
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14:00:08  <Ammler> someone a idea, how to downgrade a cfg?
14:01:52  <Belugas> use on older version of OTTD?
14:01:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> start with an empty cfg
14:02:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> and then "backport" the changes
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14:04:25  <glx> write a converter
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14:04:59  <Sacro> "
14:04:59  <Sacro> Appearance and characteristics are shown on a real copy of the screen"
14:05:05  <Sacro> HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE'S BAAAAAAAAAAAAACK!
14:05:10  <glx> really?
14:05:15  *** Lev [~thomas@z037133.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #openttd
14:05:35  <Sacro> News of Russian project OpenTTD 32bpp
14:05:48  <glx> SergejOpen
14:06:47  <LA> :P Recommended numbers of versions OpenTTD 32bpp = 8942 - 9646
14:07:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, the newer ones do not have increased zoom :p
14:07:27  <glx> yes he still uses the old dead branch
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14:08:16  <LA> lol.. he has my never actually started small airport graphics.
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14:08:29  <LA> which I have not given permissio
14:08:32  <LA> n
14:08:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> of course you didn't...
14:08:48  <LA> for him to use... he asked about tropical bank once though
14:09:00  <Ammler> I forgot one time to start with -x and now the cfg is new :-), stupid me.
14:09:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> keep a backup next time :p
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14:09:30  <LA> I like the part where he says (c)sergey all rights reserved
14:09:51  <LA> graphics by werminaard lol
14:11:18  <LA> http://openttd32.org/forum/showthread.php?t=78
14:11:34  <LA> "Jean-Francois Claeys (Belugas) - In training, not yet specialized"
14:12:09  <LA> "official releases of openttd"
14:12:15  <glx> official releases are not in rar
14:12:29  <LA> I'm just roffeling now
14:12:53  <LA> erm.. rofl
14:12:55  <LA> :P
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14:19:40  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13359 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
14:19:40  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Codechange: convert _fios_items to a SmallVector
14:19:40  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Cleanup: some reincarnations of _fios_items in the code
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14:28:10  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13360 /trunk/src/ (fios.h os2.cpp win32.cpp): -Fix (r13359): Forgot to remove some instances of FiosAlloc()
14:29:59  <Sacro> LA: thanks, means it is valid to report it as warez
14:30:15  <LA> I reported it already
14:30:23  <LA> but not as warez though :P
14:30:30  <Sacro> heh
14:30:32  <Sacro> well it is
14:30:39  <Sacro> he's distributing your stuff illegally
14:30:40  <LA> define warez
14:31:13  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r13361 /trunk/src/ (os2.cpp win32.cpp): -Fix (r13360): regexp failed
14:31:28  <LA> and tbh I don't care if he does that or not.. It is just annoying to see his unenglish posts
14:31:39  <Sacro> unenglish?
14:33:24  <Belugas> why don't we invade his forums with posts in french, german, english or even chinese!
14:33:40  <LA> russian to english with online translator = unenglish to me
14:33:42  <Belugas> anyone knows klingon?  ln maybe?
14:33:42  <Belugas> hehe
14:34:10  <LA> why won't we invade his forums with english -> russian online translation
14:34:15  <LA> :P
14:34:28  <LA> "unrussian" ^^
14:34:37  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13362 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix: make the town authority window a bit less glitchy
14:35:26  <bowman> I saw that guy on the my-symbian forums
14:35:28  <LA> ln- knows even Estonian, he might know klingon too
14:37:18  <bowman> http://my-symbian.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35987&highlight=openttd bizarre post
14:38:31  <LA> "http://openttd32.org/forum - the main forum of project open transport tycoon deluxe (openttd 32bpp) "
14:38:40  <LA> ...
14:38:49  <glx> http://www.ttycoonfr.org/forum/index.php?topic=705.0 <-- he's here too (french forum)
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14:39:04  <glx> but still using his weird english
14:39:05  <LA> btw funny thing is that he probably even pays for the webspace
14:39:14  <LA> glx: unenglish :D
14:39:17  <bowman> what is it that he does exactly?
14:40:29  <glx> I like his signature "The participant of project OpenTTD 32bpp"
14:40:38  <bowman> the only one!
14:40:50  <Belugas> basically, promoting his package of graphics, taking some from other authors not always mentionning it, and which package can only be used on a version of OpenTTD that was not official, nor has naymore life
14:41:04  <Belugas> anymore
14:41:07  <bowman> :)
14:41:26  <Belugas> so, all in all, i don't know why he does so
14:41:33  <glx> and he also provides openttd packages including ttd files I think
14:41:58  <Belugas> you have to give him credits on the fact that he is dedicated to the task tough...
14:42:04  <Belugas> i think so too, glx
14:42:19  <Lakie> You mean Sjard or whatever he is called?
14:42:38  <SmatZ> Sergej
14:43:03  <Lakie> Ah yes, sorry.
14:43:40  <Lakie> I remember, he got into trouble for not giving credit were due and ripping off graphics from other users (and sometimes comerical games) if I remember correctly.
14:43:56  <Ammler> but he has some graphics there, I never saw on tt-forums, has he done them self?
14:44:26  <glx> Ammler: no he has russians for that
14:44:31  <SmatZ> hehe
14:44:51  <Ammler> :-)
14:44:55  <Ammler> some looks nice
14:45:17  <SmatZ> yeah, very nice
14:47:53  <Belugas> i just wonder why he does not use trunk's 32 graphix :S
14:48:11  <peter1138> probably because it don't have extra zoom levels
14:50:20  <Belugas> could be indeed
14:50:40  <glx> *doesn't ;)
14:51:32  <LA> but why he doesn't use GeekToo's patch then? :P
14:51:40  * Lakie doesn't see the point in going closer than 1x zoom
14:51:59  * SmatZ does
14:52:01  <Lakie> Sure it might look prettier, but you can't see so much and when you.
14:52:06  <Sacro> georges lvs
14:52:06  <Sacro> ;p
14:52:09  <Lakie> are zoomed in so close*
14:52:43  <LA> sacro, uncensored?
14:52:52  <Sacro> la: we'll find out
14:52:58  <LA> :P
14:53:23  <LA> what do you think if Geek's better zooming interpolation will show sth?
14:53:33  <LA> for 8bpp sprites that is
14:53:39  <Belugas> Lakie, maybe as to give the illusion of a 3d world a bit more?
14:53:56  <Lakie> Meh, its isometric, surely roation would feel more 3d?
14:55:29  <peter1138> there is a point
14:55:36  <peter1138> when you're running on a 1920x1200 LCD
14:55:41  <peter1138> however
14:55:48  <peter1138> just a simple double zoom is all that's needed
14:55:52  <peter1138> not extra sprites
14:56:15  <peter1138> maybe 3* zoom for that res ;)
14:57:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, there should be some kind of smoothing for these zoom levels
14:57:35  <peter1138> no
14:57:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> which is non-trivial
14:57:48  <peter1138> you can realibly smooth the edges
14:57:51  <peter1138> er
14:57:52  <peter1138> *can't
14:58:03  <peter1138> *sigh*
14:58:10  <peter1138> you can't reliably smooth the edges
14:58:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> you can smooth lines on a per-sprite basis, if you know wether the lines go \/ or -|-
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14:59:32  <LA> btw some mod took care of our best friend sergey
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14:59:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> there was a quite good smooth filter patch for the old double zoom, but it was specialised on \/ lines, so it screwed up with text
15:00:45  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause2: no way of knowing what orientation it is
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15:00:56  <peter1138> well, not without heuristics
15:01:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> indeed, it would have to be given ;)
15:01:04  <peter1138> (aka guessing)
15:01:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> but really, the only noticeable problems were letters
15:02:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> and those are easily identified
15:02:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> IF you filter the individual sprites, not the resulting picture
15:03:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> but working on sprites might get you problems at the edges
15:03:50  <SmatZ> you can filter individual sprites if you resize them during encoding
15:04:09  <SmatZ> resizing during drawing would be probably much slower
15:04:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> of course, you would probably cache the scaled version
15:05:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> the old double zoom worked on the screen buffer, it just copied each pixel to a 2x2 area at twice coordinates
15:06:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> that's probably not the optimal solution
15:06:27  <SmatZ> do you mean the windows-only ctrl+D mode?
15:06:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, that one
15:06:43  <SmatZ> I thought it used windows specific calls
15:06:53  <SmatZ> so it resized everything, including main toolbar
15:06:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> there was a patch that ported it to linux
15:07:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, it made no special calls, it just transformed the buffer array
15:07:38  <peter1138> i thought gdi did it
15:07:57  <glx> gdi can zoom "on the fly" IIRC
15:08:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> but that was not how it was implemented :p
15:12:08  <SmatZ> if it wasn't done this way, then it wouldn't have to be windows specific
15:12:20  <SmatZ> but there were / are more patches allowing zooming
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15:18:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, it did not have to be windows specific, just nobody bothered enough. and then came the new blitter system, which screwed the thing up completely
15:20:08  <peter1138> made it cleaner ;)
15:21:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> if you define "clean $x" by "mv $x /dev/null", then yes ;)
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17:23:29  <Digitalfox> Hi :)
17:24:01  <LA> he df
17:24:04  <LA> hey*
17:25:25  <Digitalfox> I'm using Firefox 3.0 RC1 and when viewing http://www.openttd.org/servers.php I got this http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v514/Digitalfox/layout.png
17:25:34  <Digitalfox> Hi LA :)
17:26:02  <Digitalfox> LA made any progress in 8bpp GUI ?
17:26:12  <LA> erm.. NO
17:26:22  <LA> I'm not involved there so much
17:26:30  <LA> anymore
17:26:41  <LA> and I haven't done anything lately
17:26:42  <LA> to
17:26:44  <Digitalfox> ok, I'm eager to see it in game, those graphics look great :)
17:26:55  <Digitalfox> I understand ;)
17:26:59  <LA> I'm more organizing wwottdgd2 in my openttd time
17:28:42  <LA> btw digitalfox, it's rc issue.. 2.0.0.4 has no problem with it
17:29:29  <Digitalfox> LA I was thinking it was some CSS changes in 3.0 code that make it that way.. ;)
17:30:13  <peter1138> it's those long servers names and some strange occurance of nowrap
17:30:13  <Digitalfox> I'll try with RC2 when it gets released near the weekend!
17:30:56  <Mchl> it's not FF3 issue, it's FF2 issue
17:31:06  <LA> ?
17:31:20  <Mchl> FF2 trated some attributes incorrectly
17:31:25  <LA> lol
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17:32:04  <Mchl> even though it was possible to get correct layout ;)
17:32:40  <Digitalfox> Mchl maybe it has something to do with 3.0 passing acid2 test and the chages made for it to pass?
17:33:19  <Mchl> this as well, yes
17:33:46  <Mchl> don't know much details, but I know that <td> width is affected
17:34:15  <Mchl> javascript library I use for web GUI design had to implement fixes for that as well
17:34:25  <Mchl> now it works well both under 2.0 and 3.0
17:34:30  <Mchl> so it is possible
17:35:33  <Mchl> btw: Digitalfox, how's your exam results? ;)
17:35:41  <Digitalfox> 19/20 =0
17:36:13  <Pikka> no it doesn't...
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17:36:50  <Digitalfox> Pikka ?
17:37:03  <Digitalfox> Care to explain? :)
17:38:55  <Pikka> 19 divided by 20 does not equal 0. :)
17:39:20  <Mchl> it does
17:39:21  <LA> : is not equality symbol
17:39:29  <Mchl> when result is of int type
17:39:34  <LA> omg
17:39:42  <LA> he used =0
17:39:48  <LA> noy :0
17:39:56  <LA> või :o
17:40:05  <LA> =o
17:40:18  <Pikka> :P
17:40:21  <LA> või = or
17:40:34  <LA> was talking to one estonian just
17:40:40  <LA> and mind slipped
17:40:58  <LA> and fingggers
17:41:30  <Mchl> is this poetry or something?
17:41:40  <Pikka> it's certainly something!
17:41:44  <LA> should it be?
17:42:49  <Mchl> aha! philosophy!
17:42:51  <LA> btw pikka, I still gotta thank you again for helping me with the easter grf :P
17:43:41  <LA> mchl: As long as you can see some deep meaning of this... S)
17:44:26  <Mchl> I don't... that's why I think it's philosophy (or poetry maybe...)
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17:46:38  *** LA is now known as LAIsNotPhilosoph
17:46:50  <LAIsNotPhilosoph> lo orudge
17:46:59  <orudge`> Good evening
17:47:06  <Ammler> Pikka: is there a difference between your refit GRF and the official GRF from George/MB ?
17:47:22  <Pikka> I didn't know there was an official grf from george/mb.
17:48:31  <peter1138> what would make it 'official' coming from george/mb?
17:48:49  <Ammler> peter1138: on the ECS download page
17:48:54  <LAIsNotPhilosoph> perhaps it's just advertised on ttdpatch site
17:49:08  *** LAIsNotPhilosoph is now known as LA
17:50:01  <LA> btw, which is correct : advertized or advertised
17:50:05  <Prof_Frink> sed
17:50:15  <peter1138> Have you been brainwashed into thinking ECS == new cargos?
17:50:21  <Ammler> :-)
17:50:31  <peter1138> there is more than ECS around (fortunately)
17:51:06  <Ammler> PBI is also ECS, isn't?
17:51:08  <glx> Pikka: gec 'class 91' has some glitches on train reversing
17:51:16  <peter1138> no, ECS is ECS
17:51:24  <peter1138> PBI is new cargos and new industries
17:51:55  <Ammler> hmm
17:51:56  <Belugas> Ammler, do you know what ECS means?
17:52:07  <glx> Extended Cargo Scheme
17:52:08  <Ammler> Belugas: yes
17:52:12  <Pikka> glx, glitches?
17:52:15  <glx> nothing related to industries
17:52:33  <Belugas> That's the point :)
17:53:03  <glx> Pikka: http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/openttd/gec91_before.png --> http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/openttd/gec91_after.png
17:53:10  <glx> same happens it ttdpatch
17:53:15  <Ammler> ok, PBI does also use ECS, right? :-)
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17:53:27  <Pikka> no, Ammler
17:53:38  <Pikka> yeah, it's meant to do that, glx. :)
17:53:51  <glx> but it looks strange
17:53:58  <Mchl> LA: *ised is british english, *ized is american english (or the other way out)
17:54:16  <LA> k
17:54:17  <Prof_Frink> *ised is right, *ized is wrong.
17:54:28  <LA> frink is wrong
17:54:33  <peter1138> glx: put a mail van on the end
17:54:43  <Prof_Frink> No. I'm English. I'm Right.
17:54:49  <LA> You're left
17:54:54  <LA> alone
17:55:12  <Mchl> If you're English, then I'm gonnaagree with you :P
17:55:26  <LA> I thought you were a human
17:55:35  <LA> not a language
17:55:37  <LA> :P
17:55:39  <glx> peter1138: ho I see
17:55:42  <Mchl> I'm a pole
17:55:47  <LA> north pole?
17:55:58  <glx> then it shouldn't be allowed to start without the mail van :)
17:56:00  <Mchl> no, the other pole
17:56:07  <Pikka> why not, glx?
17:56:10  <LA> south pole?
17:56:17  <LA> ^^
17:56:20  <Mchl> south pole is not the other
17:56:31  <glx> to prevent the "glitch"