Log for #openttd on 30th June 2008:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
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00:56:12  <joachim> can't find it :/
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02:05:16  <Belugas> could it be ->  ?
02:05:25  <Belugas> looks like a good candidate to me
02:06:01  <Belugas>  as well, who knows
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08:47:48  <joachim> Belugas: likely, but can't find them in the code
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08:49:51  <Noldo> so there is some kind of coupling type system already?
08:51:06  <dih> yes - at #love
08:51:11  <Noldo> :)
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08:59:21  <ln> begin of discussion
09:07:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, it's not ;)
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09:08:13  <ln> you have no evidence
09:08:29  <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause2: yesterday he was right with his "end of discussion" :)
09:09:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, there was a discussion running all night ;)
09:09:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> read the logs, there is clear evidence ;)
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09:12:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... firefox doesn't do "open in new window" properly anymore..
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09:17:10  <Yexo> that few lines from Belugas? That doesn't count as 'discussion'. :p
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09:36:30  <Smoky555> hi all :)
09:37:20  <yorick> hello
09:37:57  <Smoky555> can i add more predefined stasion names into the game? such as Central or only CityName
09:39:00  <peter1138> only by patching
09:40:03  <dih> peter1138: a station name pool (in the config) would be funny
09:40:11  <dih> people can add any amount of their own :-P
09:40:20  <peter1138> not really
09:42:24  <Smoky555> peter1138: ok, i see
09:42:42  <peter1138> dih: besides, it stills needs patching ;)
09:43:09  <dih> :-P
09:43:25  <dih> i just said it would be funny :-D
09:43:59  <dih> server side list of station names (north, east, sourth, west, central, outlanders)
09:45:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, make a newgrf spec ;)
09:46:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> probably you can hijack the industrial station names
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09:52:56  <joachim> ah found it
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10:00:44  <oja> whats max on towngrowth patch?
10:01:03  <oja> i set it to 10 and towns barely grow :(
10:04:07  <joachim> do you serve them goods?
10:04:51  <oja> not yet, but even normally towns grow faster then just 1k of ppl over a period of 24 hours :s
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10:06:16  <joachim> and isn't the number a slowing factor, ie higher is slower?
10:07:00  <oja> i thought the otherway around
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10:07:35  <oja> not sure, lot of patches and w/e arent on the wiki, and if they are they explain what it does somewhat but not how to set the setting, heh
10:08:06  <oja> iunno, i've been playing around with settings everytime server restarts
10:08:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> oja: it's city growth, not town growth, only a part of the towns are cities
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11:52:08  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13650 /branches/noai/src/console_cmds.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: don't segfault if you type just 'stop_ai'
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12:04:51  <HaloMaster> Heh, i was wondering what happened when i did that.
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12:08:38  <dih> ?
12:09:04  * HaloMaster points at r13650
12:09:39  <dih> @OpenTTD commit 13650
12:09:40  <DorpsGek> dih: Commit by truebrain :: r13650 branches/noai/src/console_cmds.cpp (2008-06-30 09:57:17 UTC)
12:09:41  <DorpsGek> dih: [NoAI] -Fix: don't segfault if you type just 'stop_ai'
12:09:44  <dih> ah
12:09:50  <Gekz_> that's a lulz.
12:11:30  <HaloMaster> indeed
12:14:17  <ln> the person who types shouldn't segfault?
12:15:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> did that ever happen to you?
12:18:21  <ln> not yet, but i haven't used the noai branch.
12:18:50  <dih> you are supposed to to stop_ai <ai_name>
12:19:00  <dih> and it segfaulted with out the ai name
12:20:35  <SpComb> sounds like a... NULL POINTER DEREFERENCE!
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12:27:44  <Yexo> dih: acutally you are supposed to stop_ai <player_id>
12:27:59  <dih> or that way
12:28:00  <dih> ;-)
12:28:16  <dih> (which actually does make more sense :-P)
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12:45:21  <dih> CIA-4: get ya lazy ass back in here....
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13:08:28  <Belugas> hello
13:09:22  <dih> heyho
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13:17:00  <Belugas> joachim, what is it that you found out?  The two callbacks i gave yoo in Pikka's code?
13:19:24  <joachim> yes :)
13:20:40  <Belugas> good
13:20:48  <Belugas> you're coding a new engine set?
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13:25:15  <fjb> Hello
13:25:34  <joachim> no, I wanted high speed tracks so I changed some ukrs trains to run on maglev (shinkansen tracks w/catenary)
13:26:46  <Belugas> ho... you hacked them...
13:27:11  <Belugas> if you want an advice, ask Pikka before publishing them ;)
13:27:32  <joachim> of course, it's just for personal use :)
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13:29:29  <peter1138> ARGH
13:29:32  <peter1138> WARNING: Your password has expired.
13:29:35  <Belugas> congratulations on finding the "secret" codes, anyway :)
13:29:37  <peter1138> i wonder what it was :o
13:30:39  <Belugas> "ooops"
13:30:50  <Belugas> sorry to hear that
13:30:51  <peter1138> annoyingly
13:30:56  <Belugas> hope it was not a vital stuff :)
13:30:59  <peter1138> it actually has key authentication
13:31:03  <peter1138> that bit works
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14:00:12  <Belugas> FindWindowById(WC_MAIN_WINDOW, 0)  should return the toolbar, wouldn't it?
14:00:24  <Belugas> or shouldn't it...
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14:03:35  <Osai> hi all
14:04:29  <Belugas> mmh...
14:04:32  <Belugas> i do not see "all"
14:04:49  <Belugas> but hello anyway ;)
14:06:55  <dih> :-P
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14:09:54  <dih> Gekz geht auf 'n strich!
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14:15:11  <dih> Gekz: how fast does that _ grow?
14:16:44  <Touqen_> o/` How much for that _ in the window? o/`
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14:19:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> my ____________ is longer than yours :p
14:20:04  <dih> length does not matter!
14:20:19  <dih> :-P
14:20:21  <Yexo> Height does: ------------
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14:20:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> ˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙?
14:20:49  <Yexo> that is no line! :p
14:21:07  *** Touqen_ is now known as Touqen
14:21:08  <Touqen> :/
14:21:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> yours isn't either
14:21:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> the higher it gets, the shorter the segments are ;)
14:22:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> ·÷~÷·
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14:24:00  <flowOver> _/\_  mine represents a fractal that gets longer as you shorten the segments
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14:24:46  <flowOver> good morning btw from canada
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14:25:27  <Belugas> good morning from Quebec, flowOver
14:26:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> good mornging from ... 6 hours ago
14:26:35  <dih> :-P
14:26:38  <flowOver> victoria :)
14:29:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> where is victoria?
14:29:28  <flowOver> cap of bc, southwest corner.
14:29:40  <Belugas> Geography, dear Eddi|zuHause2...
14:30:04  <flowOver> unlike the rest of canada, it never snows here.  if it does its a couple mm at best
14:30:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> says the guy who gets only 1/3 of the european countries right, heh Belugas? :p
14:30:24  <flowOver> unless you go up a mountain
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14:30:52  <Belugas> me?  well.. as if it was required for my daily life :P
14:31:19  <Belugas> i know where my fellow devs are located, that's a very good start!
14:31:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> and how exactly is that different to the geography of canada for me? :p
14:32:13  <Belugas> mmmh...
14:32:14  <Belugas> grnted
14:32:29  * Belugas splashes into silence
14:32:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> enjoy the silence ;)
14:33:21  <Belugas> heheh... good suggestion
14:33:37  * Belugas will put it on as soon as he finds it
14:33:37  * fjb listens for the silence.
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14:34:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> that's easy.. you open amarok and type "silence" in the search bar ;)
14:35:05  <fjb> Not that easy. No amarok installed.
14:35:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> i wasn't even talking to you :p
14:36:03  <flowOver> what kind of clients you guys have that create audible chatrooms?
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14:36:19  <flowOver> i'd rather silence
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14:37:26  <fjb> Clients with bells and whistles...
14:37:55  <flowOver> hah that was almost a great pun
14:38:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... bad... civ4 doesn't want to patch because it thinks it isn't installed
14:38:20  <ben_goodger> it was an appalling pun.
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14:38:38  * ben_goodger hits fjb with the britishhumourbat
14:39:30  * fjb hits ben_goodger with an "I'm German and don't have humor" sign.
14:39:48  <ben_goodger> ow!
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14:45:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> "why we don’t hate the germans as much as the french" -- "Hmmm. BMW or Peugeot. Porsche or Renault. Dumb question. Next question, please."
14:45:26  <dih> :-P
14:45:53  <dih> "I'm German and don't have humor" <- if YOU dont have humor, that has nothing to do with being german
14:45:56  <dih> that's just you!
14:46:46  <flowOver> that learn how to speak english commercial from germany was pretty hilarious if you ask me
14:47:29  <flowOver> maybe it was belgium
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14:51:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> <- you mean one like this?
14:54:36  <flowOver> haha thats a chuckle, but no i had something much more nsfw in mind .. and it's dutch.  gofigure.
14:54:55  <flowOver> again nsfw
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14:56:41  <dih> what is the blody point of having a static ip if the connection dies all the time....
14:57:12  <Eddi|zuHause> you mean gekz?
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14:57:44  <flowOver> dih - is it set to static on both the dns and client?
14:57:44  <dih> i mean gekz gekz_ gekz__ gekz___ gekz____
14:57:58  <dih> flowOver: ?
14:58:13  <flowOver> over your head?
14:58:33  <dih> Gekz []
14:58:59  <Eddi|zuHause> it has "static" in the name ;)
14:59:01  <dih> let my point out the wird static ^ for you
14:59:08  <dih> *word
15:00:29  <Eddi|zuHause> <- i can't stop laughing about the content of this page...
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15:01:52  <flowOver> i've had routers in the past keep dropping until i told it to match the ip to my mac.  setting static ip in os isn't the complete ==.
15:03:14  <flowOver> i also only run wired now since i've found wifi to be completely unreliable in all trials
15:04:04  * dih has no wifi issues at all
15:04:28  * Eddi|zuHause has no wifi [issues] at all
15:04:36  <dih> :-P
15:04:47  <flowOver> wifi dropped me repeatedly.  radio interference.  i haven't tried N spec tho heard it suffers less
15:05:16  <dih> i have g, use a 3com home office device, and an apple power book 12"
15:05:19  <dih> no issues
15:05:31  <flowOver> old microwaves especially mess with the 2.4 band
15:05:50  <Eddi|zuHause> "if i learn german, will i ever actually use it?" -- "No" :P
15:05:54  * Touqen wants a macbook damnit
15:05:56  <ln> try re-routing the main deflector grid array
15:07:07  * flowOver wants a notebook with all the power of mbp without glamour levy
15:07:31  <Touqen> me <3 glamourous.
15:07:39  <Touqen> So much so that I'm going to spell it.
15:07:47  <Touqen> G L A M O R O U S
15:07:58  <dih> we get the picture!
15:08:01  <flowOver> ourous
15:08:02  * Touqen slaps fergie on the ass and rolls out
15:08:13  <dih> wirdo
15:08:47  <Touqen> <-- american
15:08:52  <Touqen> I can spell it however I feel.
15:09:17  <dih> yeah - just... you talk too much :P
15:10:10  <Sacro> @seen thepizzaking
15:10:10  <DorpsGek> Sacro: thepizzaking was last seen in #openttd 29 weeks, 3 days, 16 hours, 11 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <ThePizzaKing> ah
15:10:15  <Sacro> :(
15:10:26  <flowOver> i think the fact that everyone else spells colour as such is the only truth american's know of the rest of the world
15:10:40  <flowOver> as the status quo gos
15:11:27  <Eddi|zuHause> "do germans eat with fork and knife"  --
15:11:28  <Eddi|zuHause> "[Please note, this query came from Canada.] Yes, most Germans eat with fork and knife, though in Bavaria they just use finger and knife."
15:11:53  *** Rexxars [~rexxars@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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15:13:12  <Touqen> Does the rest of the world use apostrophes to indicate plurals too?
15:13:15  <Touqen> </snark>
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15:13:52  <Eddi|zuHause>
15:15:53  <flowOver> i'm more of an anthropologist than author.  sue me.
15:16:18  * dih adds *!*@* to his ignore list....
15:16:20  <dih> :-P
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17:20:00  <Yexo> thx Belugas :) that was fast
17:20:58  <Belugas> it could have been faster ;)
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17:33:41  <TiberiusTeng> doing signal work is much more difficult than I thought ... :p
17:33:47  <Wolf01> hello
17:34:29  * TiberiusTeng is looking for all the (code) elements need to do programmable/linking signals
17:36:24  *** Bjarni [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:36:26  * Yorick got a new laptop :)
17:37:59  <Prof_Frink> Yorick: How fast can it compile openttd?
17:38:16  <Yorick> yeah...I'm working on that
17:38:22  <Yorick> it doesn't like wget so far
17:38:28  <Yorick> and I need that for zlib
17:38:36  <Yorick> and I need zlib for openttd
17:39:41  <Prof_Frink> Heh, I just apt-get build-dep openttd
17:39:58  *** lugo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:41:12  <Yorick> \/bin/patch permission denied
17:42:56  <TiberiusTeng> Yorick, is it using a multicore CPU ?
17:43:10  <Yorick> yes
17:43:13  <Yorick> it is
17:43:15  <Yorick> dual
17:43:31  <Yorick> C:/msys/1.0/src/wget-1.9.1/src/sysdep.h:271:3: #error "Cannot determine a 32-bit unsigned integer type"
17:43:44  <TiberiusTeng> :(
17:43:49  <Yorick> why?
17:44:08  <TiberiusTeng>
17:44:16  <TiberiusTeng> perhaps get a pre-compiled version of wget ?
17:44:27  <TiberiusTeng> I was referring to wget :p
17:44:39  <Eddi|zuHause> TiberiusTeng: imho "programmable waypoints" are much more promising than "programmable signals", as you can influence pathfinder decisions by changing the weight of the current tile
17:45:02  <Eddi|zuHause> and you already have the infrastructure to save additional information there
17:45:15  <TiberiusTeng> ouch, it's not a precompiled version ...
17:45:35  <Belugas> I truely hope no one will ever come with a patch that implements that sucky Clippy stuff :S
17:45:42  <TiberiusTeng> Eddi|zuHause, that's exactly what I'm avoiding ...
17:45:51  <TiberiusTeng> I wish a signal, not a super router :P
17:46:02  <Prof_Frink> It looks like you're trying to build a railway line!
17:46:39  <Yorick> Belugas: nono, Tee Tee
17:46:43  <TiberiusTeng> and the structure for now, interacting with pathfinder is not too friendly with user I think
17:46:53  <Belugas> TeeTee or else...
17:47:02  <Belugas> so fucking bogingly stupid...
17:47:05  <TiberiusTeng> since I can't "prefer" some route, but only "avoid" some route ...
17:47:13  <Eddi|zuHause> iterfacing with the pathfinder is easy... it asks for a weight for a tile, and you give it one
17:47:20  <TiberiusTeng> (without making the path weight unreasonable)
17:47:25  <Eddi|zuHause> the higher the value, the more the pathfinder will try to avoid that tile
17:47:40  <Yorick> \bin/sh.exe: -c: line 2: syntax error: unexpected end of file <-- it doesn't like zlib
17:47:40  <TiberiusTeng> yep, exactly what I said :p
17:47:53  <Yorick> ok, enough of this manual installation stuff
17:48:00  <Yorick> bOTTD with my own vista fix
17:48:06  <Eddi|zuHause> "prefering" is easy, just assign a higher value for "uninteresting (default)" waypoints
17:48:17  <Eddi|zuHause> then you can get lower with the preferred waypoints
17:48:27  <TiberiusTeng> but for many players (including me) I wish to designate some rules, and say "these trains should go by this route"
17:48:40  <TiberiusTeng> not the other way around
17:48:53  <Yorick> negative penalties don't work
17:48:56  <Eddi|zuHause> exactly
17:48:59  <TiberiusTeng> that's the point
17:49:07  <Yorick> could bring pathfinders into infinite loops
17:49:11  <Eddi|zuHause> you assign the default waypoint a weight of 1000
17:49:15  <TiberiusTeng> so I choose not to touch this feature :P
17:49:21  <Eddi|zuHause> and can get preferred waypoints for 100 (normal tile)
17:50:06  <TiberiusTeng> doing this would require players to put 'same amount of waypoints' at every branch
17:50:19  <Ammler> problem of waypoints is, that you need much more space then for signals. (no waipoints in horizontal or vertical tracks.)
17:50:38  <Yorick> vertical waypoints anyone?
17:50:51  <Prof_Frink> Unless you redesign waypoints
17:51:02  <Prof_Frink> Go via (131,95)
17:51:19  <TiberiusTeng> another reason is that personally I feel these 'operation rules' should bind to a train, rather than bind to a network node ...
17:51:53  <Ammler> Prof_Frink: the problem there will be that it can have 2 different tracks, I assume.
17:53:00  <TiberiusTeng> now I only want to implement 'signal linking'
17:53:01  <Yorick> you can only store 1 waypointid on a tile
17:53:03  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: problem with signals is you need to account for multiple signals on the same tile
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17:54:57  <Eddi|zuHause> <TiberiusTeng> now I only want to implement 'signal linking' <- you may be getting in immense conflicts with YAPP there
17:55:25  <TiberiusTeng> yeah ... I'm aware of that ...
17:55:41  <TiberiusTeng> actually I'm reading YAPP and distant join patch (for GUI) sources ...
17:55:42  <Eddi|zuHause> starting with the default-red policy
17:56:27  <Ammler> btw, is it not possible to make YAPP-Presignals?
17:56:35  <TiberiusTeng>
17:56:45  <TiberiusTeng> I want to do this without those signal-propgating tracks
17:56:47  <Ammler> just wondering how to make prios and such with YAPP... :-/
17:57:05  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: YAPP presignals do not make any sense
17:57:25  <TiberiusTeng> YAPP signals are more like 'routing section boundaries' rather than signals IMO ...
17:58:34  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: YAPP priority signals could work with advance reservation
17:58:34  <TiberiusTeng> for me, merely a plate makes more sense (a plate saying 'entering CTC area' for example)
17:59:35  <Eddi|zuHause> so like if you place a [non-TTDP-sense] presignal 5 tiles before the mainsignal, the next path is reserved 5 tiles before the previously assigned path ends
17:59:50  <Eddi|zuHause> so you have a notification that the next path is actually free
18:00:13  <Eddi|zuHause> the longer the ahead reservation is, the more priority has the line
18:01:10  <Eddi|zuHause> (or alternatively you can use this ahead reservation for enforcing a braking distance [difficulty option, trains run red signals if they canot brake]
18:01:19  <Eddi|zuHause> +n+)
18:01:24  <Ammler> hmm, signals which let reservation through if possible
18:02:03  <Eddi|zuHause> no, presignals have no red state, they do not serve as a waiting location
18:02:20  <Eddi|zuHause> so they ALWAYS let the reservation through to the next mainsignal
18:02:40  <Ammler> but what's the difference to _no_ signal?
18:03:14  <Eddi|zuHause> that upon passing this point, the reservation is extended from the next mainsignal onwards
18:03:51  <Eddi|zuHause> so the next mainsignal is either guaranteed to be green [reservation succeeded] or expected to be red [reservation failed, slow down]
18:04:14  <Ammler> slow down but no stop?
18:04:42  <Eddi|zuHause> passing a yellow signal means "start to slow down, to be able to stop at the next red signal"
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18:05:07  <Yorick> meh, Kaan needs to read my forum posts, I got buildopenttd working on vist...* Compile failed *
18:05:12  <Eddi|zuHause> of course you then can also have "combo signals" that are both presignal and mainsignal
18:06:35  <ln> president Bjarni
18:06:41  <TiberiusTeng> Eddi|zuHause, is it a current behaviour ?
18:06:45  <Eddi|zuHause> no
18:06:46  <TiberiusTeng> sounds really useful to me
18:07:02  <Eddi|zuHause> but i think it should be relatively easy to extend YAPP that way
18:07:10  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: just imagine a Mainline, with 2 trains on same line, the front train passing such a signal and has to stop accidentially, what happens with the train behind?
18:07:37  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: there must be another signal between the two trains
18:07:57  <Yorick> Prof_Frink: it doesn't compile at all :(
18:08:36  <Yorick> which means that I am gonna get virtualpc
18:09:10  <Prof_Frink> Yorick: The term "Fail." comes to mind.
18:09:25  <Yorick> the term vista does here
18:09:37  <Prof_Frink> you could, of course, give yourself to the penguin
18:09:46  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: basically, if you have combo signals along the track, signal distance would be exactly 1km, and there have to be two signals between trains, so that the last signal behind the train is red, and the signal before that is yellow
18:10:27  <TiberiusTeng> get rid of vista :P
18:10:34  <Ammler> how far has the cap to be?
18:10:35  <Yorick> then what?
18:10:39  <Prof_Frink> penguins.
18:10:45  <Ammler> (between 2 trains)
18:10:45  <Prof_Frink> herony penguins.
18:10:52  <Yorick> the drivers for this laptop don't exist for xp anymore
18:10:59  <TiberiusTeng> or XP
18:11:07  <Yorick> g++.exe: installation problem, cannot exec `cc1plus': No such file or directory
18:11:10  <TiberiusTeng> ... what kind of drivers you need ?
18:11:17  <Eddi|zuHause> signal states of a mainsignal are "stop (red)", "go (green)"
18:11:39  <Yorick> try looking up Acer Ferrari 5000
18:11:40  <Eddi|zuHause> signal states of a presignal are "expect stop (yellow/yellow)", "expect go (green/green)"
18:11:51  * Prof_Frink assigns Yorick as a target for the mind-control ray
18:12:17  <Eddi|zuHause> in the easy variant, combo signals would be a presignal and a mainsignal next to each other
18:12:21  <Yorick> it should just run MINGW
18:12:45  <Eddi|zuHause> there are more complicated designs (HL, Ks, ...) in use in germany
18:12:51  <Ammler> Yorick: I used BOTTD to install mingw :-)
18:13:00  <Yorick> Ammler, so did I
18:13:06  <Yorick> and bottd runs
18:13:13  <Yorick> just mingw has a problem
18:13:18  <Ammler> hmm
18:13:19  <Yorick> shared data directory... none
18:13:21  <Yorick> installation directory... /
18:13:22  <Yorick> ./configure: /mingw/bin/gcc: Invalid argument
18:13:24  <Yorick> ./configure: [: -ge: unary operator expecte
18:13:26  <Yorick> Ammler, vista?
18:13:34  <Eddi|zuHause> 'realistic' signals also have a "go with speed limit" state, but i think we can omit those here :p
18:13:48  <Ammler> no vista anymore, upgraded to XP
18:13:55  <TiberiusTeng> hmm I don't think it has something that can't be driven under XP ...
18:14:25  <Ammler> speed limits signals would also be nice :-)
18:14:57  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, semaphores with two bars would be cute ;)
18:14:58  <Ammler> using bridges is not that optimal :-)
18:15:20  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: imho, speedlimits should be order based
18:15:22  <TiberiusTeng> Mobile Radeon X1600 (gosh I hate ATI), Atheros LAN/WLAN ...
18:15:26  <TiberiusTeng> all have XP drivers I believe
18:15:33  <Eddi|zuHause> "go to waypoint XY with max spee 120km/h"
18:15:44  <Eddi|zuHause> +d
18:15:52  <Bjarni> TiberiusTeng: newsflash: not everybody uses XP
18:15:53  <Ammler> that is difficult from the view of cooper
18:16:07  <Ammler> network builder and train buyer isn't the same person.
18:16:13  <TiberiusTeng> Bjarni, I do aware of that :P
18:16:34  <Yorick> TiberiusTeng: orbicam?
18:17:13  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: well, there is a space issue in the map to save a speedlimit for each railtile, besides it would add a hell lot of micromanagement
18:17:39  <Eddi|zuHause> again an alternative to that would be progammable waypoints
18:17:48  <Ammler> same problem if you have to configure every train.
18:17:59  <Eddi|zuHause> to say "do not proceed faster than 80km/h beyond this point, until limit is revoked"
18:18:17  <Ammler> (or onetile bridge) :-)
18:18:22  <Bjarni> TiberiusTeng: I wonder about one thing though. Why do you care about drivers?
18:18:27  <Eddi|zuHause> it would help space-wise if waypoints would be placed between tiles, not on tiles
18:18:34  <Yorick> because I want to upgrade to xp
18:18:37  <Yorick> from vista
18:18:45  <Bjarni> ahh
18:19:01  <Prof_Frink> penguinpenguinpenguinpenguinpenguin
18:19:04  <Bjarni> why not go all the way when you upgrade anyway?
18:19:07  <TiberiusTeng>
18:19:35  <Yorick> Bjarni: does linux have drivers for my wlan, bluetooth, orbicam?
18:19:50  <Bjarni> Prof_Frink: despite popular believes Linux will not solves everything
18:19:56  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Lies.
18:20:41  <Bjarni> like this particular teaching assistant. He should help people with coding in C and his universal answer was: use linux and GCC
18:20:48  <Bjarni> even when the error was something like missing ;
18:21:04  <Yorick> g++.exe: installation problem, cannot exec `cc1plus': No such file or directory
18:21:23  <Eddi|zuHause> Bjarni: "No alcohol is no solution either."
18:21:24  <TiberiusTeng> meh, the site waits a minute to generate security code, for which only gave me a link back to acer's file.
18:21:31  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: it is
18:21:57  <Bjarni> I do fine on no alcohol
18:22:14  <Eddi|zuHause> Yorick: i assume missing PATH entry
18:22:21  <Yorick> if I cannot compile openttd in here, it'd be a serious defacement
18:22:28  <Yorick> Eddi: a path to where?
18:22:38  <Yorick> where should I be finding cc1plus
18:23:01  <Eddi|zuHause> in wherever/you/installed/mingw/bin/
18:23:05  <Yorick> it also says installation directory... /
18:23:07  <Yorick> ./configure: /mingw/bin/gcc: Invalid argument
18:23:09  <Yorick> ./configure: [: -ge: unary operator expected
18:24:27  <TiberiusTeng> cc1plus is not in the bin directory, but stored in gcc specs
18:24:37  <TiberiusTeng> did you run them in sh ?
18:24:52  <Yorick> I installed bottd
18:25:02  <TiberiusTeng> do a sh --login, don't run them directly with vista's cmd.exe ...
18:25:09  <Yorick> I don't
18:25:13  <TiberiusTeng> never used bottd before ... can't help then
18:25:16  <Yorick> I'm running them from sh
18:27:39  <TiberiusTeng>
18:27:51  <Yorick>
18:27:55  <TiberiusTeng> ouch, it do have webcam drivers for XP direcly from official support page ...
18:28:09  <TiberiusTeng> I went a long way around ...
18:29:18  <TiberiusTeng> hmm, my mingw won't run gcc from /mingw/gcc ...
18:30:16  <Yorick> neither does mine
18:32:55  <TiberiusTeng> I guess you installed both MSYS and MinGW ?
18:33:41  <Yorick> yes
18:33:51  <TiberiusTeng> I set PATH=C:\MSYS\bin;C:\MinGW\bin;%PATH% and do 'sh --login', and everything works ...
18:34:04  <TiberiusTeng> but I'm not really sure if it's a vista problem
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18:37:30  <Yorick> O
18:37:32  <Yorick> ll try that
18:41:46  <Yorick> :(
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20:08:16  <TiberiusTeng> Yorick, put MSYS and MinGW at C:\
20:08:22  <TiberiusTeng> not in a subdirectory ...
20:08:32  <TiberiusTeng> I remember there's something nasty hardcoded
20:08:39  <Yorick> I remember there isn't
20:08:49  <Yorick> because it worked on xp in those subdirs
20:09:20  <TiberiusTeng> hmm :(
20:10:11  <TiberiusTeng>
20:10:59  <TiberiusTeng> perhaps you can try if this works ...
20:12:40  <Yorick> I'll have a look
20:14:36  <Yorick> currently setting the permissions
20:16:56  <Wolf01> 'night
20:16:56  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
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20:20:50  <Eddi|zuHause> it's weird when you just skim over the text when two lines merge...
20:21:03  <Eddi|zuHause> you suddenly read "nightly" and get all interested
20:21:08  <Eddi|zuHause> but then it's just rubbish
20:22:25  <Yorick> TiberiusTeng: hmm, no, I added it to msys.bat and it didn't work :(
20:23:04  * Bjarni notes that he should make sure the include the word "nightly" quite often in his reports to ensure that people stay interested
20:23:06  <Eddi|zuHause> once upon a time the "%PATH%" variable expansion was not working outside a .bat file directly on the command line
20:24:07  <Eddi|zuHause> Bjarni: your logic is flawed... that would be like adding boobs to commercials to get people interested... wait...
20:29:11  <Eddi|zuHause> "$ print %PATH%" <- you might have meant "echo $PATH"
20:30:09  <Yorick> yes
20:30:49  <ccfreak2k> Bjarni, slip in the occasional PENIS too.
20:30:50  <Yorick> Generating Makefile...
20:30:51  <Yorick> ./configure: /mingw/bin/gcc: Invalid argument
20:30:53  <Yorick> Generating lang/Makefile...
20:30:55  <Yorick> ./configure: /mingw/bin/gcc: Invalid argument
20:30:57  <Yorick> Generating objs/Makefile...
20:32:57  <Eddi|zuHause> is there a "verbose" mode?
20:33:27  <Rubidium> bash -x ./configure
20:33:50  <Rubidium> though config.log (or something like that) should give quite a lot of information too
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20:41:29  <Yorick> this is what config log gives me:
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20:43:42  <Eddi|zuHause> it's definitely your gcc/mingw installation
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20:44:53  <Yorick> and what did I do wrong?
20:44:59  <Yorick> I copied it from xp
20:45:05  <Yorick> and it worked there
20:45:12  <Rubidium> Yorick: #
20:45:12  <Rubidium> #
20:45:14  <Rubidium>   returned g++.exe: installation problem, cannot exec `cc1plus': No such file or directory
20:45:20  <ccfreak2k> Heh, PeerGuardian2 blocks by default.
20:45:32  <Yorick> yes, I got that
20:45:47  <Yorick> cc1plus: where should I be finding that?
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20:46:27  <Rubidium> /usr/lib/gcc/<arch>/<version>/cc1plus
20:46:38  <Rubidium> or /usr/libexec/gcc/<arch>/<version>/cc1plus
20:52:34  <ccfreak2k> TiberiusTeng, did you roll my sdlgl driver into your opengl diff?
20:53:16  <Yorick> ah, soved one error
20:53:21  <Yorick> it's not preproccessing
20:53:25  <Yorick> now*
20:56:27  <TiberiusTeng> ccfreak2k, yes, already in the patch.
21:00:05  <Yorick> weeh, it works :)
21:00:13  <Yorick> thank you rubidium, tiberiusteng
21:00:25  <Yorick> you made my life worth living on this laptop
21:02:11  <Bjarni> <ccfreak2k> Bjarni, slip in the occasional PENIS too. <-- that would be childish
21:02:49  <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause> Bjarni: your logic is flawed... that would be like adding boobs to commercials to get people interested... wait... <-- surely we know that the female body has never been used to sell products totally unrelated to females
21:02:52  <Bjarni> like cars
21:02:55  <Bjarni> and beer
21:03:09  <ccfreak2k> <Bjarni> <ccfreak2k> Bjarni, slip in the occasional PENIS too. <-- that would be childish
21:03:10  <ccfreak2k> And?
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21:03:57  <Bjarni> I once saw a commercial for a beer where the guy spots a not so nice looking woman. With every sip of the beer she becomes prettier and eventually becomes horny
21:04:26  <Bjarni> when the beer glass was empty she reverted back to the original look and the guy quickly orders another beer
21:05:14  <eekee> ack!
21:05:14  <Bjarni> I have also seen a naked woman swimming underwater in a pool.... now what do you think they wanted to sell by displaying this?
21:05:39  <eekee> watches?
21:05:46  <Bjarni> no
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21:06:03  * eekee picked the least related thing that came to mind
21:06:37  <Bjarni> it is related to watches... or at least the root of that word "watch" :P
21:07:06  <eekee> glasses? Spectacles?
21:07:11  <Bjarni> xD
21:07:30  <eekee> :D
21:08:28  <Bjarni> you misunderstood me
21:08:47  <Bjarni> the product is unrelated to "watches" or "watch"
21:09:03  <Bjarni> the aim of the commercial is to get people watching
21:09:16  <Bjarni> but the product has nothing to do with watching
21:09:43  <Bjarni> maybe I wasn't quite clear in my reply
21:09:45  <eekee> oh, well I'm lost then
21:09:58  <Bjarni> anybody else?
21:11:31  <Bjarni> I guess not
21:11:38  <Bjarni> the product is:
21:11:43  <Bjarni> bottled mineral water
21:12:51  * Belugas goes home
21:12:54  <Belugas> time to rest
21:12:58  <eekee> lol! Evian by any chance? I remember they had some wierd adverts involving aked women over here
21:13:27  <Bjarni> actually I think it was Carlsberg
21:13:45  <Eddi|zuHause> isn't that beer?
21:14:03  <Bjarni> they sell root beer and mineral water as well
21:14:51  <eekee> ah, I think it was carlsberg that had some funky-wierd advert over here some years ago, but haven't seen any lately
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21:16:41  <Bjarni> the commercials I just mentioned aren't on TV anymore
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21:16:54  <Bjarni> I think they are at least 5 years old
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21:23:31  <eekee> ok
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21:28:09  <penguinmessiah> kk
21:28:21  <penguinmessiah> should i use the ttd graphics or not?
21:28:25  <penguinmessiah> what look better?
21:30:05  <Bjarni> it's not a question of what looks better
21:30:12  <Bjarni> it's a question of what the alternative is
21:30:18  <Bjarni> right now there is no alternative
21:30:36  <Bjarni> nobody made a full set of sprites
21:30:38  <penguinmessiah> so i have no choice to use it
21:30:47  <peter1138> FORCED INTO IT, SON
21:31:24  <penguinmessiah> :(
21:31:37  <Bjarni> the graphics aren't that bad
21:31:53  <Bjarni> but if you lack the graphics files then you have a problem
21:31:53  <penguinmessiah> wtf... how muchs hould the dl be for ttd
21:32:07  <Bjarni> 650 mb
21:32:26  <penguinmessiah> kk
21:32:40  <peter1138> millibits?
21:32:40  <penguinmessiah> anyone have the link to dl it off hand
21:32:46  <penguinmessiah> mb
21:32:55  <peter1138> yeah
21:33:01  <peter1138> file://d:/ttd/
21:33:05  <peter1138> oh damn
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21:33:08  <Bjarni> I meant Mb
21:33:41  <peter1138> penguinmessiah:
21:33:47  <peter1138> Megabits?
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21:34:21  <Bjarni> MB
21:37:46  <Eddi|zuHause> third time is the charm ;)
21:39:55  <ccfreak2k> It really isn't that hard to find.
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21:44:39  <eekee> is it acceptable to modify the original graphics for a grf?
21:45:00  <Ammler> you wouldn't be the first :-)
21:45:11  <eekee> :)
21:45:12  <Bjarni> eekee: what do you think? :)
21:45:31  <eekee> think? That sounds like work ^^'
21:45:58  <Bjarni> oh that newspaper has a nice picture in it. Let me scan it and use photoshop on it. Since I edited it I gained the copyright to distribute it
21:46:09  <eekee> lolol
21:46:35  <ccfreak2k> He never said he was going to distribute it.
21:46:52  <eekee> I know it's not technically right, but it's pretty-much the only way I could make a grf -- and yeah I'd like to distribute
21:46:58  <Bjarni> you can do whatever you like on your own HD
21:47:00  <ccfreak2k> I must've missed the memo. Is it "Bjarni pegs everyone with copyright infringement day"?
21:47:10  <eekee> I modded a lot of tiles workign towards a lunar tileset
21:47:19  <Bjarni> I presume even if you break any laws/rules, nobody would notice if you never start distributing anything
21:47:30  <eekee> true, true
21:47:35  <ccfreak2k> Bjarni, nobody would notice because it's not illegal.
21:48:02  <Bjarni> yeah
21:48:02  <ccfreak2k> Well, not here in the United States.
21:48:30  <ccfreak2k> It's when you actually start distributing that things get messy.
21:48:40  <Bjarni> yeah
21:49:01  <Ammler> Oh that game is nice. Let me decompile it, use c on it. Since I edited it, I gained the copyright to disribute it....
21:49:22  <ccfreak2k> Ammler, a "clean-room implementation" is acceptable.
21:50:00  <ccfreak2k> Of course, the difference between that and a straight port is very small if any AFTER the code is written.
21:50:25  <Bjarni> but it would be rather pointless to modify a TTD grf to allow the game to use it instead of the original TTD grf to avoid the dependancy on the original files if you can't distribute  your modified version
21:50:36  <Bjarni> since you would already have the original grf files to do this
21:50:56  <ccfreak2k> Well, I'm not versed enough in GRFs to be able to answer that.
21:51:23  <Bjarni> think of a grf file as a collection of png files
21:51:29  <eekee> not pointless if it's so different that it feels like a new expreience
21:51:38  <eekee> *experience
21:51:49  <Bjarni> you would need to draw new ones to gain a replacement grf
21:52:26  <TiberiusTeng> what kind of 'modification', on what sprites, I wonder ?
21:52:27  <eekee> oh from that perspective; yeah. I was thinking more of a new climate for the fun of it
21:53:10  <eekee> I might be able to make passable terrain tiles; hmm
21:54:07  <TiberiusTeng> I wonder if those presignals/PBS signals are completely redrawn without referring to original signals, for example ... even for those projection/prespective/shadow/size matter ... :p
21:54:31  <eekee> Oh I'm sure there's at least some referece!
21:55:23  <ccfreak2k> Why bother completely redrawing it? The originals are there, so use those as a base.
21:55:35  <ccfreak2k> Hmm.
21:55:48  <ccfreak2k> Can I build a win32 openttd with SDL support?
21:55:56  <TiberiusTeng> if TT(D)'s released under some CC license ... well nevermind.
21:56:01  <TiberiusTeng> ccfreak2k, I believe you can ...
21:56:09  <TiberiusTeng> but I never tried and too lazy to try XD
21:56:18  <ccfreak2k> Same.
21:56:20  <ccfreak2k> Apparently GDI is fast enough.
21:58:05  <TiberiusTeng> oh, by the way, did you saved those kcachegrind profiling results ?
21:58:29  <TiberiusTeng> I've got KCachegrind in my Linux running inside VMware ...
21:59:15  <ccfreak2k> I did save them.
21:59:35  <TiberiusTeng> wondering if I can check the results myself. since VMware doesn't support OpenGL acceleration I can't profile them with cachegrind myself ...
22:01:07  <ccfreak2k>
22:01:13  <ccfreak2k>
22:01:17  <ccfreak2k>
22:01:20  <ccfreak2k>
22:03:08  <TiberiusTeng> thanks!
22:05:38  <TiberiusTeng> hmm error 403.
22:06:01  <ccfreak2k> Hmm.
22:07:01  <ccfreak2k>
22:07:32  *** tokai [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:07:37  <ccfreak2k> Use file(1) to determine if it's a tar or a tar.bz2 or whatever.
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22:13:33  <TiberiusTeng> gotcha, thanks.
22:34:20  <Ammler> possible that trunk can't load 0.6.1 save?
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22:40:51  <glx> Ammler: shouldn't happen*
22:41:28  <Ammler> well, it is late, tried that save with trunk:
22:42:07  <Ammler> it loads as described with 0.6.1 but not with trunk...
22:43:06  <Ammler> good night all
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23:07:46  <ln> does this sound like proper english: "If you find a valid card, please post it to the above address - it will earn you a reward."?
23:08:19  <ccfreak2k> Replace the hyphen with a semicolon.
23:08:22  <ccfreak2k> Otherwise, yes.
23:08:42  <ccfreak2k> "post" is a typical verb which means "mail" here in the United States.
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23:09:24  <ln> hmm, ok.  that was the actual text from one of the cards in my wallet.
23:10:33  *** Gekz [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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23:10:43  <ln> the part after the hyphen sounded unnatural to my non-native ears (or eyes).
23:12:21  <ccfreak2k> Well, what's the context?
23:15:10  <ln> well, it's a debit card which the bank requests to be returned to them in case you find one e.g. on the street.
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23:19:52  <ccfreak2k> Here in the United States, it's typical to just have "if found, return to: <address>"
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23:25:07  <Bjarni> I have seen that on keys
23:25:54  <Bjarni> and brilliantly they carry a number and an address for some company. That company can then look up which of their customers who owns the key
23:26:19  <Bjarni> meaning the key itself will not tell what unguarded warehouse or whatever it can open
23:27:00  <Bjarni> I have never actually heard of lost keys with that system though
23:27:06  <Sacro> ln: no, extra comma
23:27:42  <Sacro> "If you find this card please post it to the above address, a reward is available"
23:29:15  <Bjarni> I once found a train ticket (one with long duration with a name on it for regular travellers)... the guy had put it into my bag for some odd reason
23:30:24  <Bjarni> he then blamed me for stealing it after I had handed it in
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23:31:11  <Bjarni> but you should know that generally you risk losing whatever you put in other people's bags :P
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