Log for #openttd on 23rd July 2008:
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06:14:47  <einKarl> Hello
06:17:49  <einKarl> am i right: a problem with assertion-crash while working on order (of trams) is not yet reported?
06:18:53  <einKarl> (Version: r13776)
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06:29:40  <Celestar> peter1138: you there?
06:32:15  <peter1138> Yes
06:34:40  <einKarl> cu later
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06:37:46  <Celestar> peter1138: I'm doing nice progress here. I might have a finished route network system by the end of the weekend, but I might/will need some assistance when it comes to saveloading
06:39:44  <Celestar> I might be finished earlier, but I'm trying to do this cleanly
06:39:55  <Celestar> we've had enough Q&D shots at the paxdest thingy imho
06:40:05  <peter1138> Q&D?
06:40:18  <peter1138> Oh
06:40:22  <peter1138> Quick and dirty...
06:42:07  <Celestar> yeah
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06:52:44  <Celestar> peter1138: we should also separate this whole thingy into two part 1) the graph/network (incl. pathfinding), 2) the actual cargo handling (generation, boarding, deboarding, etc)
06:55:36  <peter1138> Yes...
06:55:55  <peter1138> That is logical, but I don't know how the other patches handled them.
07:00:12  *** Osai^zZz is now known as Osai
07:01:57  <Celestar> messy?
07:05:05  <Celestar> how does one access a station's name?!
07:18:21  <Noldo> what do you have? ID?
07:18:29  <Celestar> yeah
07:20:30  <peter1138> You want its actual string?
07:21:11  <peter1138> SetDParam(0, st->index);
07:21:14  <peter1138> GetString(buf, STR_STATION, lastof(buf));
07:21:19  <Celestar> ok.
07:21:27  <Celestar> too much for debugging output. the ID will do
07:21:32  <peter1138> Where buf is some preallocated buffer.
07:21:46  <peter1138> Not that much, and more handy than an ID.
07:22:11  <Noldo> what is index there?
07:22:40  <peter1138> st->index is station id...
07:22:45  <Noldo> ok
07:23:12  <Celestar> buf is something like char[250] ?
07:25:37  <Celestar> /home/vici/openttd/trunk/src/direction_func.h:203: multiple definition of `_routing'
07:25:41  <Celestar> station_cmd.o:/home/vici/openttd/trunk/src/track_type.h:60: first defined here
07:25:43  <Celestar> what the fuck? :P
07:30:25  <Noldo> is that a linking error
07:31:20  <Celestar> yeah
07:31:33  <Celestar> there's no variable called _routing anywhere near those lines :P
07:35:09  <Celestar> Routing_t *Routing; <= there's really a lot that can go wrong in this line, right?
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07:47:50  <Celestar> I've really fuqqed this up badly
07:47:54  <Celestar> the debugger throws errors ^^
07:48:47  * SpComb discovers a silly bug in his code
07:49:40  <SpComb> when receiving the HTTP data into a memory buffer, I would double the size of the buffer if the new data didn't fit... but I didn't check if the new data would actually fit into the doubled buffer :P
07:50:01  <SpComb> you might need to quadruple the buffer to make it fit
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07:55:28  <Celestar> you might want to find the size first and then allocate the buffer according to it? :P
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07:57:21  <planetmaker> morning all
07:57:53  <Celestar> peter1138: when exactly are stations allocated?!
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07:58:18  <Celestar>  \o michi_cc
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08:14:22  <Celestar> why are we preallocating 64 stations on game start :o
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08:16:59  <Celestar> this is totally weird
08:18:20  <SpComb> Celestar: true, if you can depend on the HTTP server giving you a Content-Length header, libcurl probably gives you access to it
08:18:31  <SpComb> libcurl's support for receive-into-mem is kind of poor
08:19:14  <Celestar> I dunno shit about libcurl
08:19:29  * Celestar just discovered that one can type "make" from within gdb
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09:08:19  <Celestar> why is everyone quiet as hell ?:P
09:08:32  <Yorick> shh
09:10:33  <Singaporekid> :o
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09:26:13  <Noldo> I'm actively trying to work, but failing, which makes me sad and quiet
09:27:26  <blathijs> Noldo: Work on what?
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09:42:11  <fmauNeko> hello :)
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10:08:14  <Artamirx> hi
10:08:24  <Artamirx> someone can help me about local authority please?
10:08:29  <Artamirx> I need to disable it
10:08:29  <Artamirx> :S
10:08:53  <ln> bribe it
10:09:04  <guru3> i don't think you can disable the local authority
10:09:16  <Artamirx> I can't bribe unlimited
10:09:23  <guru3> you can set in the difficulty options before the start of a new game that they will be tollerant in their attitude towards leveliing surround mountains etc
10:09:25  <Artamirx> I think there is a patch
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10:09:46  <guru3> (lor that htey will be hostile: that's how i do it)
10:09:59  <guru3> you can also plant trees nearby to help improve their opinion of you
10:10:21  <Artamirx> mmhm
10:10:29  <Artamirx> I need to destroy a city completely
10:10:30  <Artamirx> because
10:10:42  <Artamirx> I change the buildings set
10:10:51  <Artamirx> can you understand me? :)
10:11:11  <Artamirx> I had "NA city set" and I want to have other buildings
10:11:24  <Artamirx> and the only way is rebuilding cities
10:11:26  <Artamirx> D:
10:11:27  <ln> so what you really want is nuclear weapons?
10:11:28  <guru3> i'm not sure about changing building sets while playing
10:11:31  <Artamirx> hahahahaha
10:11:33  <guru3> but wouldn't it get cycled out over time?
10:11:41  <guru3> or does it just not switch all at once
10:11:52  <Artamirx> I'm trying using the set in patch "building cities faster"
10:12:02  <Artamirx> and "disable to cities to build more roads"
10:12:03  <Artamirx> :)
10:12:31  <guru3> you could start a new game
10:12:36  <guru3> if the buildings are that important to you
10:12:42  <Artamirx> noooooooooo
10:12:49  <Artamirx> I have too much infraestructure
10:12:50  <Artamirx> in this game
10:12:55  <Artamirx> X_X
10:13:07  <guru3> well if you're focus is infrastructure
10:13:12  <guru3> the buildigns aren't really that important are they?
10:13:13  <Artamirx> aha
10:13:22  <Artamirx> are secondary
10:13:22  <Artamirx> :)
10:13:31  <Artamirx> watch my screens
10:13:36  <Artamirx> to see my infraestructure
10:13:51  <Artamirx>
10:14:34  <Yorick> the airport asfalt :)
10:14:48  <Artamirx> someone knows what I have to do to put snow in temperate climate?
10:14:58  <Artamirx> I saw some nice screens
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10:15:11  <Artamirx> with mountains full of snow
10:15:15  <guru3> you'll never destroy all of those towns
10:15:25  <guru3> it'll take you hundreds of years and buiillions
10:16:12  <Artamirx> xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
10:16:23  <Artamirx> I forgive the buildings better
10:16:25  <Artamirx> and snow?
10:16:25  <Artamirx> o.o
10:16:39  <Artamirx> which grf is?
10:16:53  <Artamirx> to have snowy mountains in temperate climate
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10:17:31  <guru3> i don't know
10:17:52  <guru3> i haven't actively played in about 3 years really
10:18:10  <Artamirx> ok thx :)
10:18:45  <guru3> i excel merely in general transport theory
10:18:52  <Artamirx> o.0
10:19:16  <guru3> i first played the game over 10 years ago
10:19:27  <guru3> so i know how to play it very well, i just haven't done so recently
10:21:35  <guru3> don't know i fi could go doing something that detailed like that, i don't think i have the patience to completely emulate a country
10:21:43  <Artamirx> :O
10:21:46  <guru3> i prefer freestyle much more
10:21:58  <Artamirx> I emulate my conuntry
10:21:59  <Artamirx> hahah
10:22:02  <Artamirx> a part only
10:22:22  <guru3> the one thing which i would consider putting serious time into
10:22:32  <guru3> would be making a round-a-bout that worked
10:22:35  <Artamirx> :O
10:22:42  <guru3> not a 4 way junction, a true round-a-bout
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10:23:11  <planetmaker> [12:16]	<Artamirx>	to have snowy mountains in temperate climate <-- probably alpine climate by MB
10:23:24  <Artamirx> 0.o
10:23:36  <Artamirx> I have a grf
10:23:42  <Artamirx> named "alpine climate"
10:23:44  <Artamirx> but
10:23:51  <Artamirx> snow didn't appear
10:23:51  <Artamirx> :S
10:24:01  <planetmaker> yeah. That should do the trick. You need to set the snow heigth. Read the manual to it :)
10:24:10  <planetmaker> grf have parameters
10:24:10  <Artamirx> aha
10:24:15  <Artamirx> where is the post?
10:24:19  <Artamirx> do you have a link?
10:24:27  <Artamirx> or I have to use "search"? ^^^
10:24:28  <planetmaker> no. Use grfcrawler
10:24:33  <Artamirx> okay
10:25:15  <Artamirx> in grfcrawler
10:25:18  <Artamirx> the link is broken
10:25:18  <Artamirx> D:
10:25:25  <planetmaker> or look for the grf package of #openttdcoop. It should come with the readmes. But if you have it, you should have the readme, too :)
10:26:02  <planetmaker> [12:25]	<PublicServer> (GRFPack 7.1)
10:26:26  <guru3> ahhh i'm glad openttdcoop is prevalent
10:26:46  <planetmaker> :)
10:27:35  <Artamirx> i was sear4ching it
10:27:36  <Artamirx> thanks :D
10:28:19  <guru3> time to get back to work... cu
10:28:40  <planetmaker> [12:11]	<guru3>	i'm not sure about changing building sets while playing <--- that can seriously f*** up your game.
10:28:59  <planetmaker> yw
10:29:12  <Artamirx> no, I tried
10:29:22  <Artamirx> and the game normally runs
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10:29:31  <Artamirx> but, buildings turn to TTD version
10:29:45  <Artamirx> and I have to destroy them and re-build
10:29:51  <planetmaker> it may work, may seem to work or crash altogether.
10:30:04  <planetmaker> Don't complain about anything later then.
10:30:21  <ln>
10:30:25  <Artamirx> hahah
10:32:24  <planetmaker> seriously. town sets have an impact on economy. Stations may stop or start to accept cargo and all kind of weired stuff
10:32:44  <planetmaker> better start a new game
10:35:11  <Artamirx> okay
10:37:08  <Artamirx> which tram set it's okay?
10:37:15  <Artamirx> actual and nice
10:38:18  <Artamirx> mmmh, supertram rocks
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10:49:34  <Celestar> peter1138:
11:01:23  <rortom> morning all
11:01:50  <Celestar> hey
11:04:20  * rortom understood the grf format :D
11:04:28  <rortom> so if i may ask
11:04:35  <rortom> when are conflicting grfs not loaded?
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11:04:44  <rortom> means when are they conflicting?
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11:06:25  <Ammler> rortom: Action9/7 and then ActionB
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11:08:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> when the grf explicitly says so
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11:09:09  <rortom> mhm
11:09:28  <rortom> so if i load the canadian set and then the usset, what will happen?
11:09:33  <rortom> do they overwrite?
11:10:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> depends
11:10:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> a) they can check if they are compatible with each other, then the second one gets disabled
11:11:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> b) engine pool can be enabled, then both won't affect each other [mostly]
11:11:11  <rortom> mh ok
11:11:20  <rortom> and wow, the grf stuff is complex :p
11:11:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> c) else the second one will override vehicles from the first one
11:11:32  <rortom> thanks :)
11:12:14  <Noldo> canadian set doesn't like enginepool, or is it changed?
11:12:31  <Ammler> Noldo: there is no canada set anymore :-)
11:12:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> Noldo: that version has been withdrawn
11:13:02  <rortom> :/
11:13:04  <Ammler> !s/:-)/:-(/
11:13:18  <rortom> what grf combination do you use on OTTD:COOP?
11:13:33  <planetmaker> I somewhat doubt that there'll be a resurrection. But hope dies last...
11:13:44  <planetmaker> rortom: depends. Each time different :)
11:14:05  <Ammler> currently the version before he coded against engine pool :-)
11:14:10  <Noldo> interesting
11:14:39  <Ammler> rortom: it is a svn repo, we have almost every version :-)
11:15:03  <planetmaker> :) ^^ the god of the grf collectors has spoken ;)
11:15:09  <rortom> oh :D
11:15:14  <rortom> access?
11:15:15  <Ammler> mÀh
11:15:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> Ammler turned into a sheep!
11:15:51  <planetmaker> [12:25]	<PublicServer> (GRFPack 7.1)
11:16:04  <rortom> ah, you mean that :)
11:16:16  <rortom> thats nice :)
11:16:28  <planetmaker> there are older versions, accessible via svn... with password :P
11:16:36  <rortom> :(
11:16:54  <planetmaker> rortom: but the older, official releases are available, too
11:16:56  <rortom> so where is the current grf combination you use?
11:17:05  <rortom> ok, thanks
11:17:33  <planetmaker>
11:17:38  <Ammler> rortom: in respect for authors, we do not allow public access to trunk
11:17:47  <rortom> aha, ok :)
11:17:52  <Ammler> actually, I am not sure, if it is closes
11:18:50  <Ammler> you should always use the newest version
11:19:05  <rortom> sure
11:19:28  <Ammler> if you need for testing purposes an older version just pm us...
11:19:34  <rortom> sure, thanks :)
11:19:48  <rortom> i want to code some crawler, so old versions would be nice :)
11:20:27  <Ammler> crawler?
11:20:36  <rortom> like the grf crawler
11:20:40  <rortom> just with live data
11:20:51  <Ammler> well, the grf crawler isn't a crawler :-)
11:20:56  <rortom> yep
11:21:02  <rortom> thats why i want to code one ;)
11:21:20  <Ammler> rortom: do you know grf2html?
11:21:29  <rortom> no?
11:21:45  <Ammler> check it, might help you too :-)
11:21:49  <rortom> *checking*
11:22:03  <rortom> urgh
11:22:05  <rortom> pascal
11:22:07  <Ammler> it might be OS, not sure
11:22:31  <Celestar> I need a book on boost
11:22:31  <Ammler> :-)
11:23:11  <rortom> so gets boost a offical dependenccy for building ottd?
11:24:39  <Celestar> rortom: it's header only
11:24:46  <Celestar> rortom: we can just ship the files we need
11:24:51  <rortom> Ammler: thanks for the tip :)
11:24:58  <rortom> yes :)
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11:26:00  <Celestar> we *could* make paxdest optional by compile time should we have platform problems
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11:34:12  <blathijs> Celestar: Huh? What funky stuff are you doing to break paxdest on some platforms?
11:35:10  <Celestar> blathijs: I'm not.
11:35:17  <Celestar> blathijs: I'm using the boost library
11:35:21  <blathijs> Ah
11:35:27  <Celestar> which should bascially work everywhere where the stl works
11:35:39  <Celestar> i.e. any platform that contains a non-stupid C++ compiler
11:36:00  <blathijs> But we're already using STL, right?
11:36:13  <blathijs> so that shouldn't be a problem?
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11:36:39  <blathijs> though having a --without-boost compile option would be ok, though probably pretty impossible to maintain
11:37:26  <Celestar> blathijs: it wouldn't be impossible to maintain
11:37:30  <Celestar> it'd just disable paxdest
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11:37:59  <Celestar> blathijs: I'm not willing to make an implementation where paxdest are all over the place
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11:46:11  <blathijs> Celestar: Perhaps not impossible, but once we start using boost for paxdest, it will probably get used in other places as well. Though we might require that code only uses boost if it can be disabled, though.
11:46:26  <blathijs> Celestar: What part of boost do you need, btw?
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11:48:05  <Celestar> blathijs: the graph
11:49:05  <blathijs> Ah, and graph reachability algorithms etc?
11:49:19  <Celestar> possibly
11:49:29  <Celestar> it has an A* and countless other algorithms implemented.
11:49:36  <Celestar> it's no good to reinvent the wheel
11:50:35  <blathijs> Isn't that what we do half of the time? :-p
11:50:59  <Celestar> well, it's not good to continue to reinvent the wheel
11:51:41  <blathijs> Just be sure that you use a wheel that fits well enough, though
11:52:03  <Ammler> if the reinvention is better?
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11:53:16  <blathijs> Because half of the time existing wheels turn out to not fit well enough once you start using it more, and in the other half of the time the wheel is so flexible with connection options for so many different types of carts that your cart will hardly move because the wheel is so heavy
11:53:33  <blathijs> But, you can always invent a new wheel when that happens :-p
11:53:34  <Progman> shouldn't the svn:ignore property of trunk/bin/scenario/heightmap/ contains "*.png"?
11:53:56  <Noldo> I think it's a good idea to use BGL for now
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11:54:28  <Noldo> later if it feels too heavy you can replace it, but then you know which features and parts of it you really need
11:54:53  <Noldo> and you propably have somewhat clean interface
11:57:21  <Celestar> I somehow need to map the route to the vehicles
11:57:30  <Celestar> because a route can be served by many vehicles
11:57:46  <Celestar> and I can only delete the route if the last vehicles has been removed
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11:59:13  <Celestar> peter1138: I require your assistance
12:01:39  * SpComb is very afraid of C++
12:01:44  <SpComb> haet haet
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12:04:18  <Celestar> SpComb: ?
12:05:06  <glx> Celestar: can't you use the orders as an order is deleted when no vehicle use it
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12:07:34  * Celestar thinks about what glx said
12:07:59  <Celestar> do we have something like and OrderID?
12:08:38  <Celestar> I somehow need to identify the route with a vehicle
12:08:43  <Celestar> and preferably not by pointers
12:09:01  <Celestar> because pointers in pools tend to move around
12:09:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> vehicle id?
12:09:20  <Celestar> that's what I'm planning at the moment, Eddi|zuHause2
12:12:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... i have a feature request... cities that expand into villages should "consume" them [make them also cities]
12:13:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> (like they become suburbs
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12:14:46  <glx> Celestar: yes we have OrderID
12:27:10  <Celestar> glx: k. I'll see what is easier
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12:28:00  <Celestar> glx: I hope the OrderID of an order does NEVER change in the course of a game
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12:28:27  <glx> it's the ID in the pool order
12:28:35  <Celestar> so it's fixed
12:28:38  <glx> yes
12:28:49  <glx> like VehicleID
12:30:19  <Celestar> good
12:30:22  <Celestar> using that then
12:30:26  <Celestar> not worry about shared vehicles
12:33:29  <Celestar> hmpf
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12:36:47  <Celestar> I can safely assume that sizeof(size_t) > sizeof(OrderID) right?
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12:40:07  <SpComb> C++ is big, complicated and ugly
12:40:37  <Celestar> SpComb: heh
12:40:52  <Celestar> implementing paxdest in C will be bigger, more complicated and uglier, trust me
12:40:53  <Celestar> ..
12:41:02  <Celestar> ...(I never thought I'd ever say that)
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12:42:18  <SpComb> I'm just more familiar with pretty C code than with any C++ code
12:42:40  <SpComb> and so far my impression of the C++ code in OpenTTD is pretty bad, but that's mostly because it's been hacked into a C codebase
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12:49:00  <Celestar> my routing code is pure C++ :D
12:49:27  <rortom> :D
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13:10:30  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13796 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#2161]: one couldn't start the last scenario in the "start server window"'s list of scenarios.
13:16:18  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r13797 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Fix [FS#2160](r13715): crash when displaying save/load errors
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13:29:20  <Celestar> the people in #boost are anything but helpful :S
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13:32:32  <rortom> whats your problem?
13:33:03  <Celestar> rortom: I'm not getting edge_range to work
13:33:11  <Celestar> it's not happy with my parameters
13:33:38  <Celestar> rortom: neither is edge()
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13:33:54  <Celestar> remove_edge(), which takes the same parameters, works nicely
13:36:12  <Progman> how to check in c if a string ends with ".png"?
13:36:16  <Celestar> sometimes I love gcc error messages:
13:36:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> anyone ever thought the pauli principle might be a good way to assign vehicles to road stops? :p
13:37:01  <ln> the what?
13:37:02  <Rubidium> return strlen(str) > 4 && strcmp(str[strlen(str) - 4], ".png") == 0; (ugly though)
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13:39:53  <Eddi|zuHause2>
13:40:52  <Progman> not working :(, invalid conversion from 'char' to 'const char*'
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13:42:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> well... if there were a regexp lib, you could search for .png$ :p
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13:49:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> or in python you could say str.endswith(".png") :p
13:50:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> let's rewrite openttd in python! :p
13:50:17  <Yorick> Eddi: #openttd-python?
13:50:42  <Yorick> I thought so ^^
13:51:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> Yorick: why would i conciously enter a channel where you have op?
13:52:48  <Yorick> because you wanted to rewrite openttd in python and I'm currently doing so?
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13:54:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> because i made a joke and you took it seriously?
13:55:42  <Yorick> we started before your joke
13:56:21  <Lachie> look up with ur scriptz
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13:56:26  <Lachie> *good luck
13:56:32  <Lachie> umm
13:56:46  <Lachie> I don't even know how that failure of typing occured
13:56:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> Yorick: a) i know that, and b) that horrifies me even more
13:57:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> Lachie: common typo :p
13:57:22  <Celestar> where's peter1138 ?
13:57:53  <Lachie> Eddi|zuHause2: ofcourse it is xD
13:58:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> Lachie: the proper response is "the keys are right next to each other" :p
13:58:41  <Celestar> heh.
13:58:43  <Lachie> that was my thought, but it was too cliche
13:58:53  <Celestar> I can already set up a route network and only needs 200 lines of code (=
13:59:14  <Lachie> since "good luck" from "look up" isn't quite the similarity between "YOU ALL SUCK DICK" and "hi."
13:59:52  <hylje> not at all
14:00:01  <Lachie> lol
14:01:25  * Lachie bed
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14:05:11  <Celestar> GNAH
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14:09:36  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13798 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: AIEngine.IsBigPlane() (Yexo) (no, we really talk about airplanes)
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14:17:40  <Sacro> @seen dominik87
14:17:40  <DorpsGek> Sacro: I have not seen dominik87.
14:17:44  <Sacro> @seen domini
14:17:44  <DorpsGek> Sacro: I have not seen domini.
14:17:48  <Sacro> @seen dom*
14:17:48  <DorpsGek> Sacro: Dominik was last seen in #openttd 3 weeks, 6 days, 0 hours, 9 minutes, and 40 seconds ago: <Dominik> our scummvm god!
14:19:18  <Yorick> h was talking about Ludde
14:21:32  <Sacro> @seen ludde
14:21:32  <DorpsGek> Sacro: ludde was last seen in #openttd 28 weeks, 0 days, 17 hours, 57 minutes, and 41 seconds ago: <ludde> :)
14:21:49  <Celestar> WTH? ludde and dominik were here?
14:21:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> 28 weeks later...
14:24:30  <glx> Celestar: dominik is porting OTTD to DS
14:24:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> Celestar: yeah, ludde was somewhat bored after he sold µtorrent, so he checked out what was going on here ;)
14:25:22  <Celestar> heh :D
14:25:51  <rortom> lol
14:26:07  <blathijs> Is that the same dominik then?
14:26:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes
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14:35:36  <glx> but dominik first came using another nick
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14:39:58  <ln> are we talking about dominik81?
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14:59:34  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r13799 /trunk/src/lang/ (36 files): -Fix (r13730): {RAW_STRING} should be used in english.txt only
15:00:05  <Celestar> peter1138: status report: Setting up the route network works nicely, removing mostly. I've now got to skip at least non-station orders. I'm not here tomorrow so it'll be friday
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15:02:24  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13800 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Codechange: minor comment style fixes in misc_gui.cpp
15:03:01  <planetmaker> whooo. The next 100 commits done :)
15:04:01  <Ammler> SmatZ: only style fixes or adding the station grf infos?
15:04:24  <SmatZ> only comment style fixes
15:04:27  <SmatZ> long story...
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15:17:47  <Tim> Hello everyone!
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15:18:30  <SmatZ> hello Tim
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15:20:19  <Tim> I have a question... I want to edit my .grfs via the config file and not the iname menu, as i want to be able to a) categorize them into groups like OpenGFX, ECSVectors, Trainsets etc. and b) don't want to add and remove them everytime via the ingame-menu, which takes quite some time. Now my question: How can i "disable" grfs in the cfg file without deleting them? There probably is a kind "comment-symbol", which leads to the game to not read what stan
15:21:08  <Ammler> ";" or "#"
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15:21:26  <Tim> okay
15:21:27  <Ammler> but be aware of that ottd writes the config back after closing
15:21:38  <Tim> argh -.-
15:21:49  <Ammler> you could start ottd with -x
15:22:07  <Ammler> with which version do you play?
15:22:13  <Tim> latest nightly...
15:22:25  <Tim> Just played on your server :P
15:23:01  <Tim> And what does -x do? Prevent the config file to be overwritten?
15:23:07  <Ammler> Tim:  well, our server doesn't use the latest :-)
15:23:19  <Tim> *almost* latest ;)
15:23:21  <Ammler> but the latest nightly has presets, which rocks.
15:24:11  <Tim> aah
15:24:15  <Tim> just reading it...
15:24:22  <Tim> -Feature: NewGRF presets, selected by a drop down list in the NewGRF window. Presets are saved in the config file.
15:24:29  <Ammler> where?
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15:24:45  <Tim> changes.log
15:24:50  <Ammler> ok :-)
15:25:31  <Tim> Hm, however it sounds not like the ultimate solution... I'd like an option to add a bunch of grf-files to my already selected ones, like all of the opengfx grfs
15:25:33  <Ammler> I guess, you can then save your settings in a preset group
15:25:37  <Tim> or remove them...
15:25:57  <Ammler> and copy&paste them up
15:26:19  <Ammler> that might be possible already before presets, btw...
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15:26:51  <Tim> testing...
15:27:12  <Ammler> create a goup [mynewgrflist] and c&p it to [newgrf]
15:27:39  <Brianetta> Somebody on the coop server is desyncing
15:28:31  <Tim> So i can add a group [OpenGFX] followed by the grfs, and then one [ECSVectors] etc, and those won't be overwritten?
15:29:06  <Yexo> Tim: they'll only be overwritten if you save over them in the gui
15:29:35  <Ammler> Yexo: are you sure?
15:29:47  <Yexo> not 100% :)
15:29:55  <Ammler> openttd does only delete goups which are known.
15:30:17  <Brianetta> [autopilot] sections have never been deleted by openttd
15:30:20  <Ammler> as autopilot couldn't use the cfg too.
15:30:39  <Yorick> Ammler: I don't think it deletes anything...
15:30:47  <Yexo> so them I was right, as long as you use section names OpenTTD doesn't konw about
15:30:51  <Tim> True, i also have a group [sharing] in my cfg
15:31:02  <Ammler> so if you create a group [OpenGFX], that shouldn't be touched.
15:31:04  <Yexo> Yorick: IIRC it deletes some old groups, when you update
15:31:23  <Ammler> sadly
15:31:48  <Ammler> that breaks usage of the cfg for different versions.
15:31:50  <DJNekkid> train documentary on Discovery Channel!
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15:33:49  <Brianetta>
15:34:00  <Brianetta> Train documentary on Youtube (:
15:34:56  <DJNekkid> lol
15:35:39  <Yorick> train documentary on openttd while playing!
15:36:08  <Brianetta> I get a warm feeling whenever I fire up OpenTTD
15:36:17  <SmatZ> :-)
15:36:41  <SmatZ> Brianetta: sign of addiction
15:36:54  <Brianetta> I can handle it
15:37:09  <SmatZ> everyone says that :-)
15:37:14  <Brianetta> I'm going to a help group on the 9th
15:37:20  <Brianetta> in Leicester Square
15:37:40  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13801 /trunk/ ( config.lib):
15:37:40  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Add: further configuration options to make packaging more union
15:37:40  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Add: Unix man file gets now installed if necessary
15:38:08  <Brianetta> That Youtube link, btw, is good
15:38:21  <DJNekkid> ill see it in aprox 20 mins :)
15:39:47  <Tim> Can i name my grf files like i want, or will they then not be found if i try connect to a server?
15:40:13  <planetmaker> do as you like, Tim
15:40:26  <planetmaker> md5sum matters
15:40:27  <Brianetta> You can rename them, or put them in sub-folders
15:40:37  <Brianetta> It'll find them if they're unaltered
15:40:39  <Tim> That's good to know
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15:52:34  <DJNekkid> could it be better? A cap on my lap, along with a laptop, and a steamer documentary
15:53:13  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13802 /trunk/config.lib: -Fix(r13801): a few small typos
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16:02:21  <Ammler> how do I commit something, if I get a "C" on svn st
16:03:05  <Ammler> (there is no -force or such?)
16:03:12  <Rubidium> fix the conflict and then tell svn you resolved the conflict
16:03:34  <Ammler> Rubidium: I have fixed, how do I tell, that I did?
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16:03:46  <SmatZ> svn resolved
16:03:55  <DaleStan> or svn help
16:04:20  <Ammler> yeah
16:04:22  <Ammler> thanks
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16:08:17  <Ammler> Rubidium: sorry, that was obivous.
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16:44:23  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13803 /trunk/ ( config.lib): -Fix(r13801): Copy & paste mistakes
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16:52:32  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13804 /trunk/config.lib: -Fix(r13801): a search after remove should help to find missed incarnations
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16:59:12  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13805 /trunk/ -Fix(r13801): Missed a replacement
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17:04:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... i'm missing a tank wagon
17:05:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> i only have the 60km/h one, not the 80km/h
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17:08:45  <Wolf01> olleh
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17:09:59  <ln> oaic
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17:13:47  <Wolf01> troper gub a evah i
17:13:50  <Wolf01> hmmm
17:14:01  <Wolf01> i have a bug report
17:14:15  <Wolf01> (reverse mode was on)
17:15:02  <Wolf01> I have a lot of grfs loaded, so I don't know if the savegame is really useful
17:15:27  <Wolf01> but if you want I can tell you how to replicate the bug
17:15:51  <Wolf01> I'll post on flyspray
17:15:58  <ln> does anyone want to know?
17:16:36  <Ammler> Wolf01: aren't you able to reproduce on a new "empty" map?
17:17:19  <Wolf01> maybe
17:19:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> ahh... it comes out only in 1940, not 1930 like the others...
17:19:23  <Wolf01> the bug consist in: stop a train engine in the middle of the X of a junction and all trains waiting at red double signals will reverse
17:19:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> whose idea was that?!
17:20:26  <Ammler> Wolf01: isn't it intended?
17:20:42  <Rubidium> two_way_eol?
17:21:06  <Wolf01> eh, no, because if you stop the engine just after or before the center of the X it works normally
17:21:09  <Rubidium> Wolf01: I reckon you're using YAPF
17:26:00  <Wolf01> ok, also with a clean openttd.cfg it happen
17:27:23  <Rubidium> I reckon it's pf.yapf.first_red_twoway_eol that's causing it
17:30:37  <Wolf01> but it doesn't happen if you stop the engine in another position always in the same junction
17:30:55  <frosch123> yes, it must be the engine
17:32:57  <SmatZ> trains reverse when there is another train waiting at the other side of twoway signal
17:33:03  <SmatZ> maybe this detection is broken
17:33:11  <Wolf01>
17:33:11  <SmatZ> but I am afraid I don't understand you full
17:33:14  <SmatZ> y
17:33:23  <frosch123> the problem is, the detection does not consider the orientation of the other train
17:34:20  <SmatZ> CheckVehicleAtSignal()
17:34:22  <frosch123> when you stop train #1 on the X junction, train #2 thinks the #1 is waiting in front of the signal
17:35:15  <SmatZ> 		if (diff == DIRDIFF_90RIGHT || (v->cur_speed <= 5 && diff <= DIRDIFF_REVERSE)) return v;
17:35:17  <SmatZ> yeah
17:36:05  <SmatZ> simply check TileOffsBy ... Track and Direction
17:36:14  <SmatZ> however is that function called
17:36:37  <SmatZ> if next tile for incoming train is the same tile with that signal
17:36:52  <SmatZ> anyone is going to fix that?
17:37:02  <SmatZ> btw it could also check v->owner
17:37:10  <Rubidium> SmatZ: you?
17:37:22  <SmatZ> Rubidium: if anyone else isn't, then I am :)
17:50:11  <SmatZ> hmm CheckVehicleAtSignal() isn't working perfectly with wormholes and depots
17:52:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... i'm afraid that was a train too much for my single track branch line...
17:52:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> i need shunting...
17:53:22  <Wolf01> I need to remove AI unused roads without cheating
17:53:52  <Yexo> without cheating <- why without cheating?
17:54:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> Wolf01: buy them out ;)
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17:56:42  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause2: are your maps downloadable btw.?
17:56:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> why would they?
17:57:09  <Ammler> well, you have some nice sceneries sometimes :-)
17:57:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> you would have nothing to load them anyway
18:05:06  <Wolf01> Eddi, no! I don't want their crappy roads, only remove them :D
18:11:19  <SmatZ> FS#2162 ...
18:12:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> where would i start to look for the line that removes cargo from a station when it waits too long?
18:13:11  <Rubidium> in cargopacket.h
18:13:12  <frosch123> go to station_base.h, look where the rating for the cargo is stored, and grep for that
18:13:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, not the rating
18:16:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> void UpdateCargoStatus(Station *st, CargoID cargo_type) <- that might sound interesting
18:16:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> no...
18:16:53  <Rubidium> I'd say CargoList::Truncate is more interesting
18:16:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> that's about the destinations it appears
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18:21:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> 			(rating -= 90, waiting > 1500) || <-- what happened to if()?
18:23:04  <frosch123> never look at DrawTrackBits :p
18:23:14  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause2: not needed
18:23:32  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13806 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2162]: checking for train waiting at other side of two-way signal was broken
18:23:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> frosch123: i'm afraid i have already done this in the past :p
18:26:59  <Yorick> SmatZ: define 'other side', please
18:27:32  <SmatZ> Yorick: ?
18:27:43  <Yorick> ": could you"
18:27:54  <Yorick>  other side of two-way signal was broken
18:28:03  <SmatZ> Yorick: sorry I don't understand what you don't understand
18:28:09  <SmatZ> maybe I missed "the" :-x
18:28:10  <Yorick> ah, that way
18:28:22  <Yorick> I understand now :)
18:28:24  <SmatZ> :)
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18:41:39  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13807 /trunk/src/group_cmd.cpp: -Fix: memory leak when loading groups.
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19:08:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> "warning: suggest parentheses around && within ||" <- who enabled that kind of warning?
19:09:04  <ln> not me
19:09:20  <Rubidium> gcc?
19:10:38  <Rubidium> we haven't explicitly enabled it
19:10:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> gcc 4.3 i think
19:11:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> > gcc --version
19:11:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> gcc (SUSE Linux) 4.3.1 20080507 (prerelease) [gcc-4_3-branch revision 135036]
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19:38:41  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13808 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Fix: cleanup AIAirport a bit by introducing IsValidAirportType (Yexo)
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20:13:52  <fjb> Hello
20:15:06  <Chrill> jellu
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20:20:07  <nicfer> is there a separate channel for opengfx+
20:20:14  <nicfer> opengfx?*
20:20:50  <nicfer> or it's OK to talk about it here?
20:22:32  <Yexo> afaik, there is no seperate channel for it
20:22:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have never heard of one
20:22:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> and they are too dark
20:22:54  <Tim> And since not much is happening here, i guess you can talk about it :D
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20:29:12  <ln> so, proceed
20:36:02  <Tim> I like the graphics, well, except for a few.
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20:42:35  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13809 /trunk/src/ai/ai.cpp: -Fix: memory leak each time a "new ai" got (re)started.
20:44:28  <ln> please state the nature of the medical emergency
20:45:36  <Rubidium> I get depressed when a savegame with opengfx landscape gets loaded
20:46:15  <ln> sounds bad
20:46:28  <ln> can we have a screenshot of opengfx landscape?
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20:49:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb had some, i believe
20:50:10  <fjb> Who? Me? What?
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20:51:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes
20:53:26  <fjb> The fields are too dark:
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20:55:07  <fjb> And I'm missing the bales of straw.
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20:55:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> the grass is also too dark, and the track base...
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20:59:29  <Tim> Well, at first sight it looked ugly to me, too, but if you play a little bit with it, you'll love it :)
21:00:13  <Tim>
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21:04:58  <fjb>
21:08:31  *** Yexo [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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21:10:44  <nicfer> the full opengfx pak is outdated, could I update it from scratch?
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21:15:30  <Tim> Well, it would be really cool if you could update it and find out which of the smaller .grfs (eg newBuoys or Transmitter) are included in big grfs like landscape or terrain etc...
21:16:31  <fjb> They are already included.
21:17:11  <Tim> those were examples, there are a lot of those...
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21:26:39  <Ammler> hmm, it isn't outdated
21:27:06  <Ammler> it does just miss the newest 3 grfs, like houses, ships and bridges.
21:27:28  <Ammler> or do I miss something?
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21:43:26  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13810 /trunk/src/ (fileio.cpp tar_type.h): -Fix: small memory leak when tar files would be found.
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21:51:45  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13811 /branches/0.6/ (9 files in 4 dirs):
21:51:45  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: [0.6] -Backport from trunk:
21:51:45  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Fix: Several minor memory leaks. They only happened once per game (r13809, 13810)
21:51:45  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Fix: Checking for train waiting at other side of two-way signal was broken [FS#2162] (r13806)
21:51:45  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Fix: Some revision checking code was unintentionally disabled (r13776)
21:51:47  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Fix: Enforce the validity of a NetworkAction (chat packet) issued by a client (r13775)
21:51:49  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Fix: Selecting non-full length vehicles in the depot gui would place the "mouse pointer" out of the center of the vehicle making it hard to "aim" [FS#2147] (r13759)
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22:13:49  <Ammler> not possible anymore to create a new company with -n ?
22:14:49  <Ammler> if you started earlier with address#1, it created the company, if it didn't exist, now you got a alert.
22:15:29  <Ammler> (a protocol error was made...)
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22:21:09  <blathijs> Ammler: Could it be that the server and client version aren't exactly the same?
22:22:30  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:24:03  <Ammler> blathijs: no, I can join with address#255
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22:24:26  <Ammler> or after someone created the company over gui...
22:25:35  <Ammler> do you remove support for joining foreign rev with -n?
22:26:00  <Ammler> that might be a side-bug then :-)
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22:28:03  <Yexo> Ammler: I think they did, the code was change to check IsValidPlayer(player_id) if you use -n, but you might have to check that
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22:29:20  <Ammler> also tried with 254
22:29:29  <Ammler> it does exit with that
22:29:56  <Ammler> well, 254 wouldn't solve the problem
22:30:12  <Ammler> it worked quite well before...
22:31:07  <glx> Ammler: but now players are in a pool
22:31:19  <glx> some checks may need an update
22:32:52  <Ammler> well, then bugreport isn't needed, I guess, we will wait until that is finished?
22:35:14  <glx> are you using latest trunk?
22:35:50  <Ammler> tonigths bightly
22:35:54  <Ammler> n
22:37:40  <glx> r13754+ ?
22:38:05  <Ammler> 13800
22:39:06  <glx> @openttd commit 13754
22:39:06  <DorpsGek> glx: Commit by rubidium :: r13754 trunk/src/openttd.cpp (2008-07-20 13:29:59 UTC)
22:39:07  <DorpsGek> glx: -Fix (r13731): one could not join companies from the command line.
22:39:19  <glx> weird as it is supposed to be fixed
22:39:25  <Ammler> glx: yes, that is
22:39:33  <Ammler> I can join a existing company
22:40:00  <Ammler> but before the change, we created a new company if the requested one didn't exist
22:40:42  <glx> hmm that's a deeper thing
22:42:28  <Ammler> :-) might be
22:43:01  <Ammler> but I hope it is solveable
22:43:33  <Ammler> we realized there are also some players which have created shortcuts on the desktop with -n
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22:44:31  <Ammler> so it takes some time until the first joines the "old" way :-)
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22:48:25  <Ammler> blathijs: just tried what happens if I join with wrong version
22:49:04  <Ammler> then you got a msg, that you have the wrong version, so that is something else..
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22:55:27  <blathijs> Ammler: Ah, I thought that would trigger a protocol error as well
22:56:29  <Ammler> I grep everytime from -h before I start ottd if it is the same rev as the server
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23:01:13  *** fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
23:01:32  <nicfer> the full opengfx pak is outdated, could I update it from scratch?
23:02:37  <Yexo> nicfer: you're better of asking that in some thread at the forums
23:03:53  <Ammler> nicfer: which of the GRFs is outdated?
23:05:11  <Ammler> Yexo: if truebrain makes commits with your name in brackets, did you make the patch or "just" suggestion?
23:05:20  <Yexo> the patch
23:06:00  <Ammler> so do quite some work for it :-)
23:06:05  <Yexo> i create a patch, TrueBrain / glx / Rubidium reads it, makes comments, I fix, etc..
23:06:15  <Ammler> :-)
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23:06:28  <Yexo> most of it are things I need to improve my AI
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23:07:00  <Ammler> so you have some insider advantages :-P
23:07:18  <Yexo> the api code is free for everyone to read :)
23:07:27  <Ammler> :-)
23:07:29  <Yexo> but I have good knownledge about all api functions yes :)
23:07:34  <glx> and everyone can implement missing stuff too
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23:08:26  <Yexo> glx: yex, but nobody does
23:08:29  <Ammler> the ai has still no drive through support currently?
23:08:39  <Yexo> my ai not, the api has
23:09:14  <Ammler> well, some of my coop mates don't like them anyway :-)
23:10:21  <Ammler> but that is not needed:
23:10:37  <Ammler>
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23:10:58  <Yexo> there were quite a lot of bugs in v7/v8, I hope I fixed most of them in v9, but I want to test more (takes a lot of time) to be sure before the next match
23:11:12  <Ammler> I tried with such things too, but didn't reach success.
23:11:12  <Yexo> Ammler: I thought so, but I didn't test it myself
23:11:30  <Yexo> maybve you want to reply with a link to the openttdcoop blog
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23:12:45  <Ammler> there is something new since I played last time with RV
23:13:00  <Ammler> you can now use drive through as waypoints
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23:13:51  <Ammler> so you can "trigger" the time, when the RV should chose the lading bay better...
23:15:20  <Yexo> Ammler: only if you use timetables :)
23:15:44  <Ammler> do you have a playable save of the 5k game?
23:16:04  <Yexo> nope
23:16:22  <Yexo> busy implementing saveload code for AIs now
23:16:24  <Ammler> no, I meant somethning else
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23:16:57  <Ammler> the RV choses the bay for unloading when it leaves the lading bay, right?
23:16:58  *** fjb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:17:13  <Yexo> no idea
23:17:24  <Yexo> possible, but I don't think so
23:17:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> i think it's more like within 10 tiles radius
23:18:12  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r13812 /branches/noai/src/industry_cmd.cpp: [NoAI] -Add: let AI know when an industry is accidentally closed
23:18:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> and making a pathfinder choice
23:18:36  <Ammler> hmm, but then how do you explain, why they chose all the same sometimes
23:18:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't
23:19:03  <Yexo> Ammler: I can't. You'll have to ask someone with more pf knowledge
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23:21:51  <Ammler> Yexo: you should try big transfer stations
23:21:58  <Ammler> at least as a option...
23:22:44  *** fmauNekAway is now known as fmauNeko
23:22:47  <Yexo> I'll try that sometime, but such things arent as easy as they sound
23:23:18  <Ammler> :-)
23:23:47  <Ammler> well, I would also like to see, how your ai works against a newbie
23:23:59  <Ammler> I am sure, it would win.
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23:24:11  <Yexo> define newbie: someone who knows how the game works or someonen completely new to openttd / ttd
23:24:48  <Ammler> new to mp
23:25:17  <Yexo> that still doesn't say everything
23:25:29  <Yexo> but I guess they could win with planes or some long train lines
23:25:34  <Yexo> depends a lot on the map
23:25:35  *** fjb_ is now known as fjb
23:25:51  <Yexo> I guess the AI would win on 256^2 with high industries and high towns
23:25:56  <Ammler> everyone can win with planes,
23:26:03  <Ammler> that is a balancing issue
23:26:24  <glx> highly dependant on landscape too
23:26:25  <Yexo> but winning with RV against admiralai isn't possible for a newbie
23:26:44  <Yexo> on a 'normal' (= not very rough) map
23:27:21  <Ammler> well, we also need to check that
23:27:31  <Ammler> we won with trains...
23:27:39  <Yexo> find someone new to #openttdcoop to test a game ;)
23:27:40  <Ammler> with fast trains
23:28:05  <Ammler> now?
23:28:15  <Yexo> another time
23:28:19  <Ammler> :-)
23:28:20  <Yexo> I'm busy coding now ;)
23:28:50  <Ammler> well, you don't need to be there
23:28:56  <Ammler> we play against your ai :P
23:29:03  <Yexo> I'd like to see the match of course :)
23:29:45  <Ammler> I asked you already, what you have done on last game
23:30:03  <Yexo> nothing?
23:30:05  <Ammler> didn't you do more on the 2. game?
23:30:09  <Yexo> no
23:30:17  <Yexo> only fixed some rail/ road crossings
23:30:30  <Ammler> ah, that was you?
23:30:34  <Yexo> yep :)
23:30:51  <Ammler> Osai: once asked who that was :-9
23:31:03  <Yexo> didn't notice that
23:31:24  <Ammler> he was wondering that the ai was that kind.
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23:31:45  <Yexo> it's not about being kind, but about preventing crashes
23:31:58  <Yexo> because wiht a crash, the stations ratings drop 63%
23:32:19  <Ammler> yeah noticed that too
23:32:24  <Ammler> also for the train station
23:32:29  <Yexo> yep
23:33:05  <Ammler> and v9 does that now automatically?
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23:35:10  <Ammler> didn't check
23:35:21  <Yexo> no, it doesn't
23:35:23  <Ammler> was your ai all the time on the money limit?
23:35:30  <Yexo> yep
23:35:47  <Yexo> but it made less money then you
23:35:49  <Ammler> we had problems to spent all the money :-)
23:36:51  <Yexo> in fact, it doesn't check existing routes at all, so an easy way to cheat is build a road, wait till there are road vehicles from the AI on it, and remove the road again
23:37:34  <Ammler> I wouldn't like to win that way
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23:39:08  <Ammler> well then, time for something else
23:39:13  <Ammler> good night all
23:39:21  <Yexo> good night Ammler
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23:53:20  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r13813 /branches/noai/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Codechange: added AI_BroadcastEvent() to reduce code duplication
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23:55:54  <nicfer> is the opengfx all in one pack updated?

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