Log for #openttd on 2nd September 2008:
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00:00:33  <Tekky> And if the first train is paid more than it would have been paid if it had transported the diamonds directly to the bank, then the second train will receive negative income.
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00:01:23  <Tekky> The amount paid to a train is dependent primarily on the distance travelled.
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04:36:28  <Forked> meep
04:39:11  <Pikka> peem
04:47:25  <Forked> someone put back online :\
04:55:10  <hylje> goddamnit
04:56:43  <Forked> coffeeeee
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05:08:08  <Forked> urgh. so trying to compile cargodest in mingw32.. and getting it to find boost is giving me a hard time :)
05:18:29  <Forked> as usual my own fault for not extracting enough files.. cough
05:22:15  <Forked> woo it works :)
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06:16:33  <Celestar> mowning
06:17:32  <Forked> heya :)
06:17:58  <Forked> I managed to get compiling going for me, but ran out of time.. I'll try that (former) norouting bug again later
06:18:35  <Celestar> Forked: awesome
06:18:47  <Celestar> Forked: because I need/want things fixed till tomorrows large-scale test
06:19:20  <Forked> "This may take from a few minutes to a few hours" .. wee.
06:19:50  <Celestar> hm?
06:19:55  <Celestar> RAID init?
06:19:56  <Forked> defrag in vista
06:20:37  <SmatZ> at least you have a rough estimate :-P
06:20:47  <Celestar> yeah
06:20:51  <Celestar> defrag ...
06:21:02  <Celestar> I haven't heard that term in YEARS
06:21:19  * Forked aims to contribute
06:22:48  <Celestar> so vista STILL needs defragging?
06:22:54  <Celestar> I thought they'd learnt
06:22:59  <Forked> it claims it does it once a week when I'm not around
06:23:03  <Forked> but system is sluggish
06:23:10  <Celestar> haha
06:23:14  * Celestar hugs opensuse
06:23:14  <hylje> the defragger also sucks more than it used to
06:23:21  <Celestar> hylje: EVEN more?
06:23:28  <Celestar> how's that possible?
06:23:32  <Forked> I miss the DOS one, it looked cool :)
06:24:01  * Celestar wishes MS would spend more time on actually the kernel of the OS than on stupid dogs, paperclips and insecurity-features.
06:28:09  <Jerimiah40> use linux :P
06:29:09  <Forked> ever tried MS Bob? :)
06:33:50  <Jerimiah40> can't say that I have
06:34:59  <Forked>
06:35:53  <Forked> I think MS tried to get all the CDs back to destroy them
06:36:32  <roboboy> no cargo dest crashes to report
06:42:26  <Forked> hmm, google chrome
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06:56:18  <Celestar> Jerimiah40: I do (=
06:56:27  <Celestar> roboboy: good (=
06:59:31  <Jerimiah40> lol, MS Bob almost makes me want to load up a VM to see just how bad it is :P
07:00:13  <Celestar> haha
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07:09:13  <Ammler> morgen #openttd
07:11:53  * roboboy wonders how long it would take to compile open ttd on a celeron 434mhz processor
07:12:23  <roboboy> its an old pc that ive stuck server 2008 to learn how to use server
07:13:00  <Jerimiah40> how can a celeron 434mhz even run server 08?
07:13:15  <roboboy> bah server 2003
07:13:21  <Jerimiah40> ah
07:13:29  <roboboy> its below the 03 requirements
07:13:34  <Jerimiah40> that sounds better :P but still, how much ram?
07:13:45  <peter1138> 15-20 minutes, I'd guess.
07:14:07  <roboboy> im just checking ram
07:14:24  * peter1138 wonders how best to merge fds with different handlers into a single poll.
07:15:21  <peter1138> Or should I separate the programs...
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07:19:58  <roboboy> 320 mb of ram
07:20:06  <Jerimiah40> ah, that's a fair bit
07:21:31  <Jerimiah40> I'm running XP on a pentium III @ 500Mhz, 192 megs of ram
07:22:39  <peter1138> I'm running Ubuntu on a Core 2 Quad @ 2.4GHz, 2GB of RAM. But it's NEVER ENOUGH, I tell you...
07:24:08  <Jerimiah40> Right now I'm on XP on an Athlon 64 @ 2.2GHz and 512 MB of RAM, I'm looking to upgrade to dual-core ASAP
07:26:44  <roboboy> I wonder if VSCE can be run with command line switches
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07:37:08  * roboboy fixes his printer and then configures it the way he has to for his IT course
07:38:15  <Forked> AMD Sempron(tm) Processor 2800+, 512MB ram .. thats my linuxserver
07:38:32  <TrueBrain> Sempron, brr
07:38:46  <Forked> hehe
07:38:50  <Forked> does the job for now
07:39:12  <TrueBrain> it is like buying a Ferari, with a Ford K-engine
07:40:50  <TrueBrain> oeh, a new Middleman :) :)
07:42:48  <Rubidium> :O that's great news... something new from TV/movie land after months of replays
07:43:05  <TrueBrain> well, Middleman is running for 12 weeks now ..
07:43:15  <Rubidium> what!
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07:43:33  <Rubidium> a season running through summer?
07:43:48  <TrueBrain> BoneKicker did too
07:43:59  <TrueBrain> BoneKickers did too
07:44:15  <TrueBrain> Eureka is for almost 6 weeks too now
07:44:26  <roboboy> can windows give a list of all IP addresses in a lan (wifi)?
07:44:30  <TrueBrain> but okay, the rest is starting this week, or tomorrow
07:44:36  <TrueBrain> s/tomorrow/next week/
07:45:12  <TrueBrain> roboboy: you want to snoop your wifi for all active computers? :)
07:46:06  <Rubidium> roboboy: Windows can't, though there are tools that do that which might run on Windows
07:46:38  <roboboy> yep
07:46:41  <TrueBrain> there is a very nice set of tools named like 2 persons, which can do well .. anything related to snooping
07:46:52  <roboboy> ok
07:47:16  <roboboy> im disappearing for a while
07:47:19  <TrueBrain> (they even make man-in-the-middle attacks for RDP possible ... somehow people shouldn't make tools that make such things easy :s)
07:47:56  <roboboy> so I could man in the middle attack my own terminal server
07:48:11  <TrueBrain> if you consider that useful
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07:48:54  <roboboy> I geese I  could make it usefull somehow
07:49:06  <roboboy> but im away for now
07:49:12  <TrueBrain> have fun!
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07:52:57  <Jerimiah40> AGH!   Why is my internet connection so horrible
07:53:17  <TrueBrain> get a new one
07:59:13  <Jerimiah40> but this one's free!
07:59:35  <TrueBrain> then don't complain
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08:07:12  <Ammler> TrueBrain: then nobody could complain about OpenTTD ;-)
08:07:30  <TrueBrain> Ammler: exactly :)
08:07:32  <Jerimiah40> oh snap :P
08:07:37  <TrueBrain> wouldn't that be a lovely world?
08:07:43  <Jerimiah40> I'm not complaining, it was a question
08:07:46  <Ammler> too lovely _P
08:08:44  <Jerimiah40> but anyways, I think i'm going to head for bed
08:08:47  <Jerimiah40> g'night everybody
08:09:00  <Ammler> night Jerimiah40
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08:23:20  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14217 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_cargo.cpp ai_cargo.hpp): [NoAI] -Fix: AICargo.GetCargoIncome() returned wrong values (you got to love the fact that a function claims to accept 'days' which are in fact 2.5 'days' .. so much for consistancy!)
08:24:35  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14218 /branches/noai/bin/ai/regression/regression.txt: [NoAI] -Fix r14217: and it wouldn't be a commit, if I didn't forget to update the regression ;)
08:25:30  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14219 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp: -Fix (rthebeginning): 10 days != 6*2.5 days, effectively causing the payment graph to show the wrong data.
08:26:15  <peter1138> Haha
08:29:03  <peter1138> Where does the 2.5 come from, however?
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08:29:51  <Rubidium> train_cmd.cpp:2225
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08:30:23  <Rubidium> (or 2224 in trunk)
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08:31:58  <TrueBrain> but you have to know that even the GUI doesn't show the correct values (factor 1.6 or so is used there)
08:32:26  <TrueBrain> bah, my english sucks today
08:33:11  <TrueBrain> so nobody seemed to 'know' about this 2.5 factor ... ;)
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08:34:24  <TrueBrain> then again .. like anyone would really notice :)
08:36:24  <peter1138> But was it right in TTD?
08:36:53  <Rubidium> peter1138: likely not (at least not in 0.1.4)
08:36:58  <TrueBrain> who knows :) Maybe you could check TTDp, even then ...
08:37:13  <TrueBrain> finding the right piece of code in asm, might be slightly tricky ;)
08:38:15  <peter1138> But looking at the graph won't be :p
08:38:18  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: 0.1.4 can still be a ludde typo :)
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08:40:09  <peter1138> I added a scrollbar to the bottom panel of the NewGRF window. It looks terrible, but I can't see how else to show all the information :/
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08:47:25  <roboboy>  I hope ive told it to install all the right bits based on the wiki guide as the SDK installer has changed
08:48:32  <roboboy> ohwell if I didnt I can ask questions later
08:49:43  * roboboy waits and waits for the two SDKs to install and download
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09:10:08  * roboboy hopes the download succeeds this timw
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09:17:55  * Celestar sighs "life sucks"
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09:37:29  <Celestar> DAMNIT
09:37:33  <Celestar> I need the new airports :S
09:37:36  <Celestar> LGA SFO and MUC
09:37:43  <Eddi|zuHause> :)
09:37:50  <Eddi|zuHause> go rewrite newgrf_ports :)
09:37:51  <roboboy> grr the directx sdk wont download
09:38:07  <Celestar> LGA is small than the city airport, but has almost intercont-throughput
09:38:13  <Eddi|zuHause> but don't you dare leave cargodest unfinished :p
09:38:13  <Celestar> international*
09:38:27  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: there'll be a full-scale test starting tomorrow
09:38:35  <Celestar> we're trying to bring the system to its knees
09:38:35  <Eddi|zuHause> LaGuardia? as in the middle of new york?
09:39:08  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: yes.
09:39:28  <Eddi|zuHause> i need tram terminal loops...
09:40:23  <roboboy> what system are you trying to bring to its knees
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09:40:48  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause:
09:40:55  <Eddi|zuHause> ones with multiple bays in the same direction
09:41:29  <Eddi|zuHause> those are awfully short runways
09:41:45  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: 6 tiles for the departing runway
09:41:49  <Celestar> 5 tiles for the landing runway
09:41:57  <Celestar> the city airport has 6 tiles as well
09:42:24  <Eddi|zuHause> but isn't 5 tiles too short for "big" planes?
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09:42:37  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: takeoff yes, landing no
09:42:48  <Celestar> landing distances are MUCH shorter than takeoff distances
09:42:51  <peter1138> Looks a bit overloaded :p
09:43:12  <Celestar> peter1138: :P
09:43:13  <Celestar>
09:43:15  <peter1138> Celestar, yeah but gameplay wise...
09:43:17  <Celestar> we have that too (=
09:43:34  <Celestar> peter1138: it can be marked as small airport (=
09:43:52  <Celestar> better?
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09:48:05  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i think "walking" passengers could be useful for decoupling independent networks. i.e tram network in one city, the passengers switch networks at the main station, so they pay fully for the tram ride, and start with a "clean slate" for the railway ride
09:49:09  <Eddi|zuHause> then they transfer normally through the railway network, and pay fully at their target city when they again switch networks to the city's tram network
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09:56:39  <roboboy> hm why wont the DIREXT X SDK download properly
09:57:08  <roboboy> ill leave it one more
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10:09:12  <Eddi|zuHause> because you use windows...
10:13:33  * roboboy dinner
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10:44:33  <Celestar> hm.
10:44:41  <Celestar> can I save the current game configuration into the cfg file?
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10:49:32  <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: afaik there was a patch for that
10:50:29  <Celestar> *nod*
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10:55:21  <Ammler> Celestar: peter1138 presets patch was step one to that :-)
10:55:30  <Celestar> heh
10:55:31  <Ammler> but mostly enough :-)
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11:04:53  <peter1138> No it wasn't.
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11:17:26  <Celestar> peter1138: have you seen the IS code?
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11:20:45  <Ammler> peter1138: not for you, for me :-)
11:20:52  <peter1138> Seen the what?
11:20:59  <Ammler> I am quite happy with it, anyway.
11:21:06  <Celestar> peter1138: the Infrastructure Sharing Patch
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11:22:43  <peter1138> Oh, no.
11:22:53  <Celestar> ok
11:22:55  * Celestar goes reading it
11:24:19  <Celestar> ...
11:24:21  <Celestar> +			if(((facil==FACIL_DOCK) && ((st->owner == _current_player) || SharedHarbours(tile, _current_player))) ||
11:24:24  <Celestar> +			   ((facil==FACIL_TRAIN) && ((st->owner == _current_player) || SharedRailwayStations(tile, _current_player))) ||
11:24:27  <Celestar> +			   ((facil==FACIL_AIRPORT) && ((st->owner == _current_player) || SharedAirports(tile, _current_player))) ||
11:24:30  <Celestar> +			   (((facil==FACIL_BUS_STOP)||(facil==FACIL_TRUCK_STOP)) && ((st->owner == _current_player) || SharedRoadStops(tile, _current_player)))) {
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11:24:33  <Celestar> it *MIGHT* want to code-factoring
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11:25:04  <Rubidium> Celestar: nah, that's perfectly readable, isn't it?
11:25:28  * Celestar detemines the irony-factor in Rubidium's last statement
11:26:29  <roboboy> where do you recomend I put my OpenTTD sourcecode that SVN gets? Especially sice the machine I plan to do my compiling probably wont have OTTD on it
11:27:41  <Forked> on a SAN? :p
11:27:48  <Celestar> hm.
11:27:56  <Celestar> the IS patch doesn't look too bad
11:28:00  <Celestar> needs some overhaul here and there
11:28:06  <Celestar> but the general style is fine
11:28:14  <roboboy> no just a server
11:28:44  <roboboy> it may end up with openttd on it but not runing the version compiled
11:29:26  <Ammler> roboboy: ~/openttd/
11:29:33  <Eddi|zuHause> * Celestar detemines the irony-factor in Rubidium's last statement <- it's totally off my scales :p
11:29:50  <roboboy> so in my documents since its windows server
11:30:08  <roboboy> My Documents\openttd
11:30:14  <Ammler> hmm
11:30:23  <Ammler> windows will have the datadir there
11:31:38  <Ammler> roboboy: why not using the home for your c++ projects..., like your IDE will suggest...
11:32:20  <roboboy> ok
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11:47:14  <Celestar> I've read through the IS patch and made a few comments to get it up to snuff
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11:53:06  <TrueBrain> Celestar: nice piece of code you pasted above :)
11:53:15  <Celestar> TrueBrain: yeah, innit?
11:53:27  <TrueBrain> any sane person would have used a switch, but who am I to judge ;)
11:53:39  <Celestar> switch on what?
11:53:41  <Celestar> facil?
11:53:47  <TrueBrain> and a sub-function, yes
11:53:50  <TrueBrain> (or: CLASSES!)
11:53:59  <TrueBrain> either way, what I wanted to ask: what is IS patch?
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11:54:31  <Forked> you can rent track usage from other companies
11:56:51  <TrueBrain> ah :)
11:56:56  <peter1138> Infrastructure Sharing, also known as Subsidiaries in a murky distant past...
11:57:06  <TrueBrain> so only tracks? Not that stupid sub-company-blabla?
11:57:08  <TrueBrain> pfew :)
11:57:29  <peter1138> Sub-company was pretty pointless.
11:57:44  <TrueBrain> understatement, but yes :)
11:57:50  <davis-> shared tracks ?
11:57:53  <davis-> :D
11:58:02  <davis-> yay for jams
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12:00:33  <Celestar> heh
12:00:34  <Forked> I like it for airports
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12:03:52  <Celestar> yeah but you could for example have stations where passengers change from one station to another.
12:04:04  <Celestar> OR: one company builds the tracks, another runs the trains on it (=
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12:06:06  <peter1138> Wasn't there some objection to the method of linking competing players' tracks up?
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12:06:25  <TrueBrain> Celestar: weren't you working on something else? :p
12:06:27  <peter1138> Once upon a time there was talk of using waypoints as 'gateways' to allow connections.
12:06:35  <Celestar> TrueBrain: I _am_ :)
12:06:40  <TrueBrain> :)
12:06:49  <Celestar> TrueBrain: we're just preparing a full-scale test
12:06:58  <Celestar> many players, many vehicles
12:07:07  <Celestar> wanna join?
12:07:16  <TrueBrain> hmm .. maybe :p
12:07:23  <TrueBrain> first I am waiting for a reply from LeaseWeb
12:07:33  <peter1138> What's up?
12:08:04  <Rubidium> the disable-bit for vt-x
12:08:14  <Celestar> vt-x?
12:08:16  <TrueBrain> which makes us not be able to run 64bit guests :(
12:08:23  <peter1138> Virtualization I'd guess.
12:08:29  <TrueBrain> yup
12:08:41  <Celestar> isn't that an OS feature?
12:08:42  <peter1138> Usually a BIOS tweak, sometimes needs a new BIOS :(
12:08:46  <TrueBrain> a CPU feature
12:09:06  <Celestar> eeks
12:11:41  <FauxFaux> Many players, as in, more than 11 companies? ¬_¬
12:12:00  <peter1138> 11?
12:12:06  <Kloopy> 8 :P
12:12:19  <peter1138> Feel free to implement it. Properly.
12:12:19  <FauxFaux> Uh, 11 players, 8 companies. :(
12:12:28  <Kloopy> Is it a big job, peter1138?
12:12:32  <FauxFaux> Any idea what the limitation is? (I'm at work, no codes)
12:12:35  <peter1138> Properly, fairly.
12:12:37  <TrueBrain> on a scale from 0 to 10, I guess, 12 :p
12:12:55  <hylje> locating the things which imply 10 players
12:13:11  <hylje> changing them to be agnostic (or refer to a #define)
12:13:13  <Kloopy> Global search and replace for "8" to "32" on the code? :P
12:13:34  <peter1138> That would not count as properly.
12:13:35  <FauxFaux> Clearly yuou'd be going for an unlimited number of players in a rewrite.
12:13:38  <Kloopy> :(
12:13:45  <FauxFaux> Or, at least, as much as select()'d take.
12:13:46  <Kloopy> Unlimited would be silly.
12:13:46  <peter1138> FauxFaux, not unlimited.
12:13:56  <TrueBrain> hylje: the term 'players' is ambiguous :) Either use 'clients' or 'companies'
12:14:06  <davis-> :o
12:14:06  <FauxFaux> Both. :)
12:14:09  <peter1138> Well, you could, if you altered storage in the map somewhat.
12:14:13  <FauxFaux> Gotta go.
12:14:24  <peter1138> Unlimited clients is quite possible, however.
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12:14:33  <hylje> Kloopy: some sixty thousand (2^16) would be close enough however
12:14:40  <TrueBrain> peter1138: for windows it is rather limited .. :p
12:14:46  <Kloopy> Are there only 3 bits in the map array for "company owner" then?
12:14:55  <peter1138> No.
12:15:15  <Rubidium> there are almost 4 bits ;)
12:15:18  <TrueBrain> after 3000 or so things go weird on Windows ... very weird ...
12:15:25  <TrueBrain> (TCP stack issue)
12:15:29  <Kloopy> "almost 4" :)
12:15:35  <peter1138> Mostly it's 8 bits.
12:15:52  <FauxFaux> I'd complain about the nasty bit-packing everywhere, but it is pretty cool.
12:16:02  <hylje> TrueBrain: arbitrary crippling more like
12:16:08  <peter1138> I think roads and level crossings break that rule, but nothing else?
12:16:08  <FauxFaux> (Meeting delayed. \o/)
12:16:14  <Kloopy> 256 players is inice.
12:16:21  <peter1138> You couldn't have 256, heh
12:16:22  <Kloopy> -i
12:16:28  <TrueBrain> Kloopy: the term 'players' is ambiguous :) Either use 'clients' or 'companies'
12:16:32  <Kloopy> lol TrueBrain
12:16:36  <Kloopy> 256 companies* :P
12:16:43  <FauxFaux> I'm not entirely sure the server'd be able to keep up with 256 clients and/or companies.
12:16:50  <TrueBrain> I am serious, I never have a clue what people mean when they say 'players' .. it is used for both, so what do people mean :(
12:16:55  <FauxFaux> Would need a bigger map, or world sharding.
12:16:58  <Kloopy> I agree with you, TrueBrain.
12:17:08  <FauxFaux> TrueBrain: I guess most people play single client/company, so it'd mean both?
12:17:13  <peter1138> There are ownership identifiers for water, towns and none as well.
12:17:18  <hylje> sharding or clustering in some way will come up sometime in the future
12:17:29  * Rubidium slaps the person who introduced network play for that ;)
12:17:30  <Kloopy> That makes sense, peter1138.
12:17:31  * TrueBrain goes sit in a corner
12:17:55  <peter1138> We could rename Player to Company...
12:18:01  <TrueBrain> peter1138: please do
12:18:05  <peter1138> That wouldn't affect much :p
12:18:11  <TrueBrain> but I already told that to Rubidium :)
12:18:14  <Rubidium> peter1138: then don't forget to change p->c and pid->cid ; )
12:18:19  <peter1138> Indeed.
12:18:20  <Kloopy> I would imagine it'd be a slightly easier job to increase the number of clients but leave companies to 8?
12:18:30  <peter1138> Kloopy, much easier.
12:18:55  <peter1138> Although doing it properly isn't so simple.
12:18:56  <FauxFaux> The current limit of 12 (well, 11 + server) sounds too arbitary to be a coincedence.
12:19:01  <FauxFaux> It's not even 2^int.
12:19:19  <Rubidium> 3 spectators ought to be enough, right?
12:19:34  <Kloopy> Not if you're playing 2 people per company.
12:19:35  <TrueBrain> FauxFaux: it is a random number of my imagination in fact :p
12:19:56  <FauxFaux> TrueBrain: Hehe. :)
12:20:05  <peter1138> I did have a patch to convert clients into a smallvector...
12:20:11  <TrueBrain> and it seriously is created the way Rubidium says: 8 + 3, should be enough for the next few years
12:20:14  <TrueBrain> well .. was I wrong ;)
12:20:14  <peter1138> Or was it a std::vector... can't remember
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12:20:31  <roboboy> gnight
12:21:05  <Celestar> BAH
12:21:22  <peter1138> Bah?
12:21:29  <Celestar> I wish the different *_gui.cpp files wouldn't contain multiple windows
12:21:35  <peter1138> Why?
12:21:49  <FauxFaux> He clearly likes thousands of files.
12:21:54  <peter1138> Well, I can guess. You editted the wrong window :)
12:22:01  <TrueBrain> I agree with Celestar :)
12:22:36  <Rubidium> Celestar: have fun splitting them
12:22:55  <peter1138> What I want to know is why it's players.cpp, not player_cmd.cpp ;)
12:23:34  <peter1138> (And why some player, er, company related commands are in misc_cmd.cpp...)
12:24:50  <Rubidium> peter1138: hysterical raisins?
12:24:56  <Celestar> Rubidium: I'm planning to (=
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12:38:11  <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: when you write "8)", you should consider disabling smilies in that post :p
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12:38:35  <Eddi|zuHause> (imho that smilie should be removed!)
12:38:47  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: yeah ...
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12:38:55  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: I noticed a little late, too lazy to edit now
12:39:07  <Eddi|zuHause> should probably bitch to orudge about that ;)
12:44:04  <Celestar> peter1138:
12:44:07  <Celestar> peter1138: good?
12:44:37  <Forked> I like it :) .. also you need to move some passengers :p
12:44:53  <Gekz> :<
12:44:54  <Gekz> I dont
12:44:59  <Gekz> it's so complex
12:45:11  <Gekz> it visually disembowels me
12:51:31  <Kloopy> Geks, if it's not the default view, then it's ok. I say that because at first, your network will be small and you won't have a tree 8 deep.
12:51:39  <Kloopy> So when you are learning how cargodests works, it's easier at first.
12:51:53  <Kloopy> And the treeview shows ALL the information which might be a bit over the top for some people who chose not to use it anyway.
12:52:15  <Kloopy> However, if you want to see a complete overview of the cargo at each station, it's VERY useful and clearly shows it all.
12:52:41  <Kloopy> One suggestion is that it might be a bit easier on the eyes if the word "passenger" was removed from the tree.
12:52:59  <Kloopy> The top line that says "1,640 passengers" clearly stats that the tree is about passenger cargo.
12:53:21  <Gekz> please use a z
12:53:24  <Kloopy> The lines in the tree could then just say "(700 to Furstenberg, 661 continuing, 91 arriving)
12:53:26  <Gekz> I don't have a name with an s on the end
12:53:29  <Gekz> so that didnt highlight me
12:53:48  <Kloopy> Sorry, Gekz... didn't mean to spell you wrong. :(
12:54:09  <Gekz> lolo
12:54:12  <Gekz> nice
12:54:13  <Gekz> :D
12:54:38  <Gekz> Kloopy: good ideasx
12:54:42  <Gekz> keep pumping them Mr Thinktank
12:56:59  <peter1138> Celestar, that's the job... you figured out my dropdown code? :)
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12:57:56  <Pikka> hmm, anyone in the mood for a feature request, or are you all too busy with cargodest? :P
12:58:00  <peter1138> Pikka!
12:58:04  <peter1138> Which request?
12:58:14  <Celestar> peter1138: yeah.
12:58:15  <peter1138> I found a problem with my expiring wagons patch :(
12:58:22  <Pikka> xy coords of houses and towns
12:58:24  <Celestar> peter1138: easy enough I must say
12:58:26  <peter1138> No wagons available in 2050, hehe
12:58:33  <Celestar> peter1138: however, my initial string is not working
12:58:37  <Celestar> peter1138: even if I set .data
12:58:40  <peter1138> Pikka, xy related to what?
12:58:58  <peter1138> Just tile cordinate?
12:59:02  <Pikka> yes
12:59:14  <Celestar> peter1138: the question is: why is that (=
12:59:41  <peter1138> Celestar, I'd have to see the patch.
13:00:57  <Celestar> peter1138: problem found
13:01:06  <peter1138> Pikka, I guess you'd want XXXXYYYY, 16 bits for each of X and Y
13:03:11  <Pikka> well, I could probably live with just xxyy, although it may cause oddities if a town goes over a 'board'...
13:03:20  <Eddi|zuHause> internally, it's something like (y<<map_x) + x
13:03:38  <peter1138> That's not really useful for large maps.
13:04:06  <Pikka> I'm only going to use it to compare the location of the building relative to the town
13:04:06  <Eddi|zuHause> so the point where it switches between the y-bits and the x-bits is different depending on map size
13:04:07  <peter1138> What do you need to do with it? Would a distance variable be better?
13:04:23  <Pikka> testing for distance and direction
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13:05:49  <Pikka> a way to check for an ottd "city" would be handy too
13:06:11  <Eddi|zuHause> there need to be more town classes in the future
13:06:46  <Eddi|zuHause> like "village", "town", "city", "metropolis", "suburb", ...
13:06:57  <peter1138> Just wonder if we should return the tile absolute and let you compare them, or compare them in the variable and give you a relative offset.
13:07:17  <Eddi|zuHause> each with different growth properties
13:07:21  <Pikka> Eddi: I couldn't possibly comment.  But insert usual spiel about how newgrf > "feature" here. :P
13:07:22  <peter1138> Maybe complex to do the comparison in varaction2 language, but... I dunno :)
13:07:50  <Pikka> peter, let me compare them.  I can handle it, and it'll be more flexible if anyone else wants to do something different with them.
13:08:35  <Pikka> I also suspect it will be easier to convince someone to implement it in ttdp if you're just giving me the raw data...
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13:16:10  <peter1138> Okay, fine.
13:16:22  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14220 /branches/noai/ (bin/ai/regression/regression.txt src/ai/api/ai_company.cpp): [NoAI] -Fix: recalculate company value on request (Yexo)
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13:17:51  <Rubidium> <- does that look okay for a Windows GRF ran on the DOS base GRFs, i.e. indstatw.grf and TRG1.GRF?
13:18:19  <peter1138> Errr
13:18:25  <peter1138> Looks fine.
13:18:42  <peter1138> Don't like the font though ;)
13:19:47  <Brianetta> Rubidium: Distinct lack of magenta (:
13:20:35  <Rubidium> yeah, bad ain't it?
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13:23:35  <Belugas> hello boyz
13:23:43  <peter1138> Hello Belugas
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13:25:04  <Celestar> BAH
13:25:15  <Celestar> I just wondered why ottd took minutes to startup
13:25:21  <Celestar> and it hit one of my breakpoints :P
13:25:26  <TrueBrain> lol @ Celestar
13:25:28  <Rubidium> <- and now I only had the DOS versions of UKRS/ISR but not the DOS base GRFs ;)
13:25:59  <Rubidium> <- and you can try it yourself too
13:26:03  <peter1138> How are you determining if a GRF is for Windows or DOS?
13:26:19  <Rubidium> not
13:26:45  <Brianetta> Surely one could just check for excessive magenta (:
13:27:03  <Belugas> Mister Nelson, I salute you
13:27:15  <Rubidium> the user says: I want THAT palette and this set of base GRFs, so it then converts the base GRFs to the required palette
13:27:30  <Brianetta> It's all or nothing?
13:27:30  <peter1138> Ah...
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13:28:08  <Brianetta> Could you convert the palette per-newgrf?
13:28:24  <peter1138> Brianetta, no easy way to determine its palette.
13:28:30  <Brianetta> Default to the base GRF palette, then have a toggle or button in the newgrf manager
13:28:33  <Rubidium> Brianetta: could do, but it isn't trivial to determine dos-ness
13:28:33  <peter1138> s/easy/foolproof/
13:28:45  <peter1138> Rubidium, so is it committed yet?
13:28:49  <Brianetta> The user would, as now, have to know which version she was loadingf in
13:29:16  <Brianetta> and would hit the "switch palette" toggle for any newgrfs which are not matching
13:29:27  <Rubidium> Brianetta: this is more related to clients joining servers with a different palette
13:29:49  <Brianetta> Ah, right
13:29:58  <peter1138> Solving a desync issue :D
13:30:03  <Brianetta> Side-stepping the MD5 problem
13:31:05  <Rubidium> any other features could be implemented on top of it, *but* ... I haven't found a reliable way of detecting the palette of a NewGRF
13:31:18  <Brianetta> You wouldn't need to
13:31:36  <Brianetta> Place a manual toggle, and the user tells the game which ones don't match the underlying base GRFs
13:31:46  <peter1138> ben_goodger is famous!
13:32:05  <Brianetta> If the user is clueless, it's no worse than at present
13:32:12  <peter1138>  -- past two of that, heh
13:32:25  <peter1138> *page
13:32:30  <Brianetta> Is Chrome's source available?
13:32:44  <Celestar> hm
13:32:48  <peter1138> I don't know, I've never heard of it before. If it's Open Source, however...
13:32:54  <Celestar> why should we use (int)a instead of static_cast<int>(a) ?
13:34:05  <Celestar> c
13:34:26  <peter1138> Because we're C programmers.
13:35:14  <peter1138> Your question should probably be phrased as 'why haven't we converted from (int)a to static_cast<int>(a) yet?'
13:36:30  <SmatZ> :-)
13:36:41  <SmatZ> or int(a)
13:36:53  <peter1138> Is that a cast?
13:37:10  <dih> hello
13:37:10  <Belugas> huh? we can cast stuff?  WOW!
13:37:10  <SmatZ> it's a constructor, I guess it behaves the same
13:37:10  <peter1138> Or a syntax error :p
13:38:25  <Brianetta> (int)a to static_cast<int>(a)
13:38:33  <Brianetta> well, that's a readability improvement
13:38:39  <Brianetta> who invented that?
13:38:57  <SmatZ> it does type check in compile time
13:39:43  <Belugas> can it type while checking compile time too?
13:40:32  <SmatZ> yeah
13:42:36  <dih> Brianetta: i would really like to get some kind of start or progress with autopilot...
13:43:18  <dih> or (if needed) more detail in the outline
13:44:38  <Brianetta> Just go ahead
13:44:52  <Brianetta> I don't tend to have a lot of time at the moment
13:45:11  <dih> righ.... :-(
13:45:50  <Brianetta> It's the main reason that development wasn't going quickly
13:46:28  <dih> yes - but i do love your input and feedback ;-)
13:46:51  <dih> and generally picking your brains on bits and pieces
13:52:21  <Eddi|zuHause> is there a reliable way to "downgrade" a savegame, as in load it in a new version, and save it as if saved with an older version?
13:54:08  <SmatZ> no, sometimes it is possible with some coding, but it may be really difficult or impossible generally
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14:00:01  <Eddi|zuHause> it's basically about one saved variable... but i think i can figure out a way
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14:02:55  <dih> <- someone has some greate insight :-P
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14:06:31  <Eddi|zuHause> "the airport, but it's square" <- that's not even true for TTD
14:06:55  <dih> ;-)
14:07:44  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: but 4 == 3, right?
14:08:13  <Eddi|zuHause> in a suitible subsection of maths, yes ;)
14:09:27  <Celestar> he want's 90° rotation
14:09:34  * Celestar remembers having that feature REMOVED
14:09:41  <Celestar> after it was incomplete for about a decade
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14:10:49  <Celestar> bah. obiwan :S
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14:11:31  <SmatZ> Celestar: it was in OTTD?
14:12:57  <Celestar> SmatZ: yeah. LONG time ago and never worked the slightest :P
14:13:05  <peter1138> It was a define...
14:13:56  <Celestar> yeah about that :P
14:21:07  <Forked> so there was some huge test of cargodest tomorrow?
14:22:00  <Celestar> yes
14:22:02  <Celestar> it's planned
14:22:18  * Forked shows interest (if RL permits..)
14:22:40  <Celestar> glx: could you please check whether there is some error in cargopacket.cpp:294 ?
14:22:44  <Celestar> glx: MSVC
14:22:52  <Celestar> glx: because Tekky reported one
14:23:00  <Celestar> glx: also open for fix suggestions if need be
14:23:04  <Celestar> gotta go :D
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14:23:41  <michi_cc> Rubidium: the IniFile reader chokes on files with LF line endings on windows when using the MS CRT (which is used by mingw as well)
14:24:08  <Rubidium> michi_cc: glx couldn't reproduce it
14:24:11  <michi_cc> Rubidium: a standard git checkout will for example produce .obg files with LFs
14:24:26  <Rubidium> and the old ini reader would've had the exact same issue
14:24:35  <Rubidium> unless MS is doing really stupid things
14:24:40  <michi_cc> the problem is that ftell will fail
14:24:56  <glx> the only failure I had was for \r
14:25:27  <glx> \r\n and \n worked
14:26:11  <michi_cc> verified by looking at the ms source code: ftell does a correction for the ignored \r by searching for \n in the buffer and adding one for each it found, regardless whether there really was a \r in front
14:27:31  <michi_cc> relevant quote from the MSVC 2008 CRT source:
14:27:47  <michi_cc> note that it actually never checks if there really was a \r
14:28:23  <michi_cc> setting the open mode of the file to "rb" did work for me locally because we strip \r and \n ourself anyway
14:29:25  <Rubidium> yay... thanks MS for fracking up your API
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14:44:53  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... when duplicating a working copy (by "cp a b -r"), running "make" in b/ switches to directories in a/
14:45:25  <Eddi|zuHause> you need to ./configure in b/ first
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14:45:49  <glx> Eddi|zuHause: yes configure stores full path
14:46:22  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: yup
14:46:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14221 /trunk/src/ (viewport.cpp viewport_type.h): -Fix: signs (town name, station name, ...) could be too long for 8bit width in pixels
14:46:40  <Eddi|zuHause> can you force a ./configure when a change of path gets detected?
14:46:45  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: happens for most configures btw (take gcc, same problem :))
14:47:03  <TrueBrain> (then again, in gneeral you don't wnat 2 copies of gcc ;))
14:47:05  <Eddi|zuHause> you force reconfigures when changing sources.list and stuff also
14:47:44  <TrueBrain> then: make -f /my/dir/to/openttd/Makefile doesn't work!! :p (haha :))
14:48:07  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: might be easy to add, yes
14:48:55  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: is ./configure --help already fixed?
14:50:51  <Ammler> TrueBrain: dunno, if celestar asked you already, would it be possible to run tomorrow afternoon the compile farm for cargo dest?
14:51:24  <TrueBrain> lol, make -f doesn't work at all :p
14:51:47  <TrueBrain> Ammler: ask me tomorrow afternoon :p
14:51:58  <Ammler> so you are around?
14:52:01  <TrueBrain> (my memory is like .. what was I saying? :p)
14:52:01  <Ammler> nice :-)
14:52:04  <TrueBrain> most likely ;)
14:53:46  <Forked> boioioing
14:57:58  <Eddi|zuHause> why does "SLE_CONDNULL(4,101,SL_MAX_VERSION-1)" not do what i want?
14:59:35  <glx> SL_MAX_VERSION is a fixed value
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14:59:49  <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. loading an older savegame with a 4 byte variable which i want to ignore works, but saving that game i want to save it without this variable
15:00:21  <Eddi|zuHause> right, it's totally senseless
15:00:36  <Eddi|zuHause> i want current verison -1
15:00:40  <Eddi|zuHause> not max version - 1
15:02:26  <glx> peter1138: <-- is this correct?
15:03:34  <peter1138> Err... whoops :o
15:04:22  <TrueBrain> lol, configure is kind of broken in the way it was intended to be used :)
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15:04:55  <Eddi|zuHause> weird encoding that file has...
15:05:41  <peter1138> glx, I think more changes are necessary there. That fix the warning, and work the same way it used to, but not really work properly.
15:05:45  <peter1138> I shall attack later.
15:07:03  <Eddi|zuHause> yay, my variable removing worked, now i can load my game in clean cargodest ;)
15:07:14  <peter1138> :)
15:09:06  <peter1138> a
15:09:13  <TrueBrain> can I suggest this: (glx: can you test that for mingw?)
15:09:41  <TrueBrain> with that pathc, you can run 'configure' again from a dir which is not the root of the OpenTTD source, and when you copy like Eddi|zuHause did, it triggers a reconfigure.
15:10:08  <peter1138> No makefile.bundle?
15:10:10  <TrueBrain> (Makefile.bundle was renamed to, but of course 'svn diff' fucks that up)
15:10:15  <peter1138> Oh, right.
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15:10:35  <TrueBrain> hehe :)
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15:12:22  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: that breaks Makefile.msvc
15:12:40  <TrueBrain> well, that fix isn't that brain-breaking is it ;)
15:13:10  <TrueBrain> reload
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15:15:44  <TrueBrain> <- I suggest reverting this, as it makes ./configure --help silly (as if, say, gcc isn't detected, you can't get a --help ....)
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15:15:54  <Promille> Did i understand this right?: You need the original TTD-game from Microsoft to install OpenTTD. There is an .deb for ubuntu/debian, but how can i install the original game, which i assume is only exe, when wine/cedega is not an option?
15:16:20  *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@] has joined #openttd
15:16:58  <Yexo> Promille: you only need the data files from the original game
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15:17:03  <yorick> Promille: you only need the original TTD data files
15:17:10  <yorick> from Micropose ;)
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15:17:33  <Promille> ah i see. see i copy the data files and paste it where?
15:17:47  <Yexo> ~/.openttd/data
15:17:58  <Yexo> or in /usr/share/games/openttd
15:18:07  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14222 /branches/noai/ (15 files in 3 dirs):
15:18:07  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix [API CHANGE]: make the NoAI framework aware of the fix in trunk which doesn't allow strings to be longer than N chars. You now get ERR_PRECONDITION_STRING_TOO_LONG instead. (Yexo)
15:18:07  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Change [API CHANGE]: consistancy: rename SetCompanyName to SetName (SetCompanyName warns about obselete function for now, update your AI ASAP)
15:18:07  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: can I commit my patch? (if glx agrees it works ;))
15:18:19  <Promille> ok. and these is not free i assume Yexo?
15:18:23  <glx> hmm I didn't try it yet
15:18:42  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: fine by me
15:18:44  <Yexo> Promille: the original game is still not free
15:19:03  <Promille> Ok :) Thanks for help yexo, yorick
15:19:06  <glx> TrueBrain: your patch doesn't have
15:19:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i hate it... this reservation bug only ever happens while i am not watching
15:19:59  <TrueBrain> glx: yeah, stupid 'svn diff' .. please rename the SVN one to ...
15:20:26  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: and what about reverting r13792?
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15:20:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14223 /trunk/src/ (19 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: make GetSprite aware of the 4 different types of sprites: fonts, recolour, mapgen and normal sprites.
15:21:58  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: yeah, revert it; fixing it so the real defaults are shown isn't trivial
15:22:34  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: if possible at all .. as it requires part of the configure to run .. which depends on values you want to view via --help :p
15:24:19  <Eddi|zuHause> hoo... it happened...
15:25:04  <glx> TrueBrain: hmm doesn't work very well
15:25:14  <TrueBrain> glx: do tell :)
15:26:28  <glx> <-- but maybe I did something wrong ;)
15:29:13  <TrueBrain> glx: no, you did not, I think .. one moment
15:29:30  <TrueBrain> going to split this patch first ..
15:31:23  <TrueBrain> glx: <- 'bundle' fix only
15:31:29  <TrueBrain> (should work, but to be sure .. )
15:31:53  <TrueBrain> (forgive 'svn' for being stupid)
15:32:03  <Eddi|zuHause> my FF day is about 1.5 seconds... :(
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15:33:09  <glx> <-- cp test failed too btw ;)
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15:34:04  <TrueBrain> glx: yes, and I know why, but first a simple fix .. then I can make the 'cp' fix in a more .. readable matter :)
15:34:25  <glx> fix 1 should work :)
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15:34:52  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14224 /trunk/ (5 files): -Fix: copy Makefile.bundle too to your working dir, so you don't need to run ./configure in the root of OpenTTD
15:35:57  <glx> hmm it doesn't reconfigure
15:37:37  <glx> it should have reconfigure as changed
15:37:45  <Eddi|zuHause> YAAAY i can reproduce it!
15:38:15  <Eddi|zuHause> only i have no trunk savegame ready, only a cargodest savegame
15:40:56  <TrueBrain> glx: yeah, Makefile deps can be annoying :)
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15:46:24  <TrueBrain> glx: and now I have it failing to detect changes in the config.cache.pwd .. sometimes .. :p
15:46:53  <TrueBrain> ah, yes, of course
15:54:15  <TrueBrain> glx:
15:56:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14225 /trunk/config.lib: -Fix [configure]: make sure a dir exists if you want to write into it
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15:59:30  <glx> Reconfig done. Please re-execute make.
15:59:30  <glx> ----------------
15:59:30  <glx> make: *** [config.cache] Error 2
15:59:33  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14226 /trunk/ (config.lib configure): -Revert r13792: 'configure --help' failed when for example gcc wasn't detected .. not really what you expect. By the lack of imagination, a revert will have to do for now.
15:59:41  <glx> not very logic
16:00:05  <TrueBrain> nothing we can do about that
16:00:15  <TrueBrain> the 'main' Makefile received dir-changes, and we can't reload them
16:00:33  <TrueBrain> and if you don't give an exit code, most automated tools don't detect the problem, and think compiling is done
16:00:35  <Rubidium> can't you start a new instance of make?
16:00:46  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: possible, but then it can happen that it keeps rerunning itself :p
16:00:57  <Rubidium> true
16:01:00  <glx> I mean the error thing
16:01:08  <TrueBrain> glx: it has to return an error-code
16:01:18  <TrueBrain> (how else would your tool know it failed to compile?)
16:01:37  *** helb [~helb@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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16:01:44  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: hmm, even worse: I have no way to know what you wanted to compile ;)
16:01:59  <glx> and with exit 0 ?
16:02:00  <Rubidium> peter1138, frosch123, SmatZ: any comments on ?
16:02:07  <TrueBrain> glx: how would you detect that it failed to compile?
16:02:15  <TrueBrain> make; print $?;
16:02:22  <TrueBrain> gives no clue what so ever that 'make' faile din those cases
16:02:27  *** mikl [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:02:35  <TrueBrain> in fact, only a human is able to distinquish between failure and not
16:03:09  <TrueBrain> 'exit 0 is the same as: successful compile'
16:03:39  <glx> right, and that's bad for scripts :)
16:03:47  *** dfox [] has joined #openttd
16:03:54  <TrueBrain> glx: exactly :)
16:04:02  <TrueBrain> (and for any automated tool for that matter)
16:04:06  <frosch123> Rubidium: recolour sprite conversion still accesses out of bounds elements
16:04:16  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: any comments on my patch?
16:04:47  <Rubidium> you mean the fixes2?
16:04:50  <TrueBrain> yes
16:04:58  <Rubidium> frosch123: hmm, that sucks :(
16:05:18  <frosch123> Rubidium: e.g. i == 0 and num != 257
16:07:29  *** Mortal [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:08:09  <Rubidium> why on i == 0?
16:08:27  <frosch123> _palette_reverse_remap[i - 1]
16:08:41  <Rubidium> hmm, I must be blind ;)
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16:09:09  <Rubidium> the updated diff should work
16:09:47  <frosch123> no, there are recolour sprites with num != 257, e.g. 17
16:10:25  <Rubidium> what goes wrong in those cases?
16:10:58  <frosch123> maybe you access dest_tmp with indices > num
16:11:50  <frosch123> btw. is i == 0 accessed anywhere?
16:12:06  <Rubidium> why do we even have 17 length recolours?
16:12:13  <frosch123> ask CS
16:12:45  <TrueBrain> glx: patch worked for the rest?
16:12:46  <frosch123> the tile selection sprites use colors 0..15, and the red/blue recolorsprites in the dos grf only recolor those
16:12:53  <Eddi|zuHause> why these prime numbers anyway?
16:13:04  <Eddi|zuHause> 17 is prime, 257 is prime
16:13:33  <frosch123> ask mr. /mrs. mersenne (don't know the spelling)
16:13:57  <Eddi|zuHause> they aren't mersenne primes ;)
16:14:02  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, -1 :p
16:14:27  <Eddi|zuHause> they are fermat primes
16:14:42  <frosch123> the other are 2^n - 1 ?
16:14:58  <Rubidium> hmm, I'll look to those later ;)
16:15:08  <Eddi|zuHause> mersenne primes are 2^n-1, fermat primes are 2^n+1
16:15:17  <frosch123> always mix those up
16:15:36  <Eddi|zuHause> of mersenne primes are more known ;)
16:16:26  <Forked> hmm in cargodest.. Do passengers prefer the end station?
16:16:55  <Eddi|zuHause> it is easy to show that for mersenne primes, n must be prime, and for fermat primes, n must be a power of 2
16:16:55  <Forked> the further we go, the better!
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16:18:04  <Eddi|zuHause> but after 2^16+1 (=65537), no further fermat prime is known. and last time i checked, it was unknown if there is really no further fermat prime
16:18:47  <Eddi|zuHause> for mersenne primes, a new one is found every once in a while... there are like 40 of them known
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16:19:24  <frosch123> yeah, mersenne primes are always printed on wallpapers
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16:27:50  <Tekky> is there a more simply way to list all subdirectories of the current directory in UNIX than by using "ls -F | grep /" ?
16:28:33  <Tekky> I have the feeling that I am doing something needlessly complex for such a simple task :)
16:28:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14227 /trunk/ ( config.lib): -Fix [configure]: detect if we are in a new directory, and rerun configure in those cases. Should avoid confusion (idea by Eddi)
16:28:44  <TrueBrain> Tekky: find -type d .
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16:30:15  <Tekky> Thx, but I just wanted to find the immediate subdirectories of the current directory.
16:30:40  <Tekky> I was unable to find such an option in the "ls" command.
16:30:51  <TrueBrain> I never found it too ;)
16:31:47  <Eddi|zuHause> Tekky: ls -l | grep ^d
16:32:53  <TrueBrain> Tekky: so that is why I started to use: find -type d -maxdepth 1, for cases like yours
16:32:56  <Tekky> ah, thx, that works too :)
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16:34:24  <Tekky> hmmm, I'm afraid even the  MS-DOS shell is better in this respect, as it allows for "dir /ad" to accomplish this task :(
16:35:01  <Tekky> but luckily UNIX is flexible enough for the workarounds that were mentioned.
16:35:11  <TrueBrain> Tekky: write a patch for 'ls' :p
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16:38:25  <Tekky> hehe, the problem would be standardizing it on all UNIX platforms :)
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16:46:44  <Ammler> Tekky: create a alias
16:46:54  <Ammler> something like ld :-)
16:47:11  <Eddi|zuHause> err... :p
16:47:29  <Ammler> hmm, could be something else... :P
16:47:45  <Ammler> but if you don't need it, does it matter?
16:48:45  <Tekky> I'd call it "lsd" :)
16:51:57  <Belugas> anyone can give me some synonyms for "Transport", something like "Delivery"... in the sens of Compane_name "something" ?
16:52:26  <Kloopy> For automated company name generation?
16:52:47  <Kloopy> "Travel" is an obvious one.
16:52:59  <Eddi|zuHause> Logistics
16:53:05  <Kloopy> Nice idea.
16:53:30  <Kloopy> Transit?
16:53:37  <Kloopy> Carriage?
16:53:48  <Belugas> "Transit" I like
16:53:56  <Belugas> Logistics?  strange
16:54:03  <Eddi|zuHause> in german i would say "Spedition", but i don't know how that translates to other languages
16:54:04  <Kloopy> It's used lots in the UK, that one.
16:54:40  <Ammler> our local transport company is called "Autobetrieb..."
16:54:47  <Eddi|zuHause>
16:55:07  <nckomodo> small question, is it normal for trucks on the delivery end of a feeder service to make a negative profit upon delivery?
16:56:42  <Eddi|zuHause> conveyance... i have never heard that word before
16:57:11  <Belugas> nckomodo, are you using transfers?
16:57:32  <nckomodo> Belugas yeah, the trains are set to transfer and leave empty, or something to that effect
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16:58:10  <Eddi|zuHause> nckomodo: that happens when the trains are much faster than the trucks, or the cargo is waiting a long time at the transfer station
16:58:19  <nckomodo> ah
16:58:34  <Eddi|zuHause> then the estimation that the trains get paid is higher than the final delivery income
16:58:44  <Eddi|zuHause> so the fraction that the trucks get is negative
16:59:35  <nckomodo> ah, so I'm really only losing the income I shouldn't have made anyway?
16:59:46  <nckomodo> or something to that effect
17:00:44  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
17:00:54  <Eddi|zuHause> you still get income, but it gets distributed unevenly
17:01:15  <Eddi|zuHause> the trains get too much, and the trucks must balance that out
17:01:15  <Ammler> maybe the total income of the route should also be showed there
17:01:25  <Ammler> 2 numbers like with cargodest
17:02:15  <Eddi|zuHause> that only solves half the problem
17:05:33  <nckomodo> I heard some loud shuffling coming from above me, thought someone might've been trying to break in
17:05:41  <nckomodo> turns out my cat was in the ceiling
17:06:00  <nckomodo> scared up the when they delivered the new matress :s
17:06:03  <nckomodo> there*
17:06:50  <Eddi|zuHause> ceiling cat is watching you masturbate?
17:07:29  <nckomodo> ceiling cat is scared of people
17:08:14  <nckomodo> oh holy god
17:08:23  <nckomodo> a few of my aircraft are losing 1 mil a year
17:08:38  <Eddi|zuHause>
17:08:57  <nckomodo> okay scratch that, they're all losing money
17:09:28  <Eddi|zuHause>
17:09:50  <nckomodo> that might be why I'm only making 9 mil a year :x
17:10:56  <Rexxars> 1 mil a year? how is that even possible? lol
17:11:20  <nckomodo> magic
17:11:29  <Rexxars> must play with some insane running costs
17:14:30  <nckomodo> indeed
17:14:47  <nckomodo> turns out concordes cost 2 mil a year to operate
17:14:57  <nckomodo> quite possibly due to inflation
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17:20:26  <nckomodo> jeez, all of these planes cost 1 mil a year to operate
17:22:03  <Eddi|zuHause> inflation of income is lower than inflation of costs
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17:22:29  <peter1138> Inflation of cargo is "1%" lower than inflation of costs.
17:22:41  <nckomodo> not entirely sure what that means, but this game has been running for quite awhile
17:22:48  <nckomodo> 1950-2300
17:22:51  <hylje> eventually nothing has value and you lose
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17:23:17  <peter1138> This does not make sense, as if you set a lower rate of inflation, the difference between cargo and cost rates becomes greater.
17:24:08  <Eddi|zuHause> lower inflation makes the game more difficult ;)
17:24:22  <Eddi|zuHause> i always play with inflation off
17:24:40  <hylje> it's a trap
17:24:58  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14228 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Fix (r14209): double click on the 'last joined' server didn't work
17:25:20  <TrueBrain> catch: pass
17:26:47  * FauxFaux dislikes inflation too.
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17:34:06  <glx> TrueBrain: patch worked for mv (sorry I was away ;) )
17:34:33  *** Yeggzzz is now known as Yeggstry
17:36:29  *** Zahl [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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17:37:05  <glx> TrueBrain: and DorpsGek failed for r14228
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17:43:58  <TrueBrain> that is weird ..
17:44:00  <TrueBrain> @openttd commit
17:44:00  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by smatz :: r14228 trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp (2008-09-02 17:24:46 UTC)
17:44:01  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: -Fix (r14209): double click on the 'last joined' server didn't work
17:44:51  <TrueBrain> manual triggering did work ..
17:45:06  <TrueBrain> well, suprise suprise .. out of memory
17:45:37  <nckomodo> oh
17:45:43  <TrueBrain> this time 'trac' used up around 500 MiB of RAM
17:45:49  <nckomodo> thats why my bus stops dont have an overflow of passengers
17:45:54  <nckomodo> when I changed the road layout
17:46:01  <nckomodo> it caused the city to practically eat itself
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17:49:14  <dih> Brianetta, is there any specific time you would have time on your hands?
17:50:31  <Brianetta> dih: I got some absolutely appalling family news today, so not soon.
17:50:46  <dih> i am sorry to hear that
17:50:53  <dih> really.
17:51:05  <Brianetta> yeah, so was I
17:51:17  * Brianetta has been making phone calls
17:51:17  * dih hugs Brianetta
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17:55:07  <Wolf01> hello
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18:02:32  *** Bjarni [] has joined #openttd
18:02:33  *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
18:02:56  <Forked> heya Bjarni :)
18:03:25  <Bjarni> hello Forked
18:03:31  *** Phoenix_the_II [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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18:03:36  <Bjarni> did you meet anymore imaginary friends? :)
18:03:45  <dih> Phoenix_the_II, you are here :-)
18:04:05  <Forked> imaginary? :\
18:04:18  <hylje> but.. he's real!!
18:05:57  *** welshdragon [~vista@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:06:13  *** welshdragon [~vista@] has joined #openttd
18:06:38  <Prof_Frink> None of you are real.
18:06:41  <Bjarni> <Forked> imaginary? :\ <-- I take that as a no
18:06:42  *** welshdragon [~vista@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:07:02  <Bjarni> or denial
18:07:41  <Prof_Frink> No, dat's de river in Egypt.
18:07:52  <Forked> Bjarni: pfft, go try x3 ;)
18:08:12  <Bjarni> I might
18:08:56  *** Brianetta [] has quit [Quit: TschÌß]
18:09:11  <Forked> I don't think the linux release of reunion is too far off.. and the new one for windows (terran conflict) is less than a month away :)
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18:11:32  <yorick> TrueBrain: congratulations with your first trunk commit in ages :)
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18:13:30  <Bjarni> Forked: but 900 mb for a demo.... for windows only
18:13:54  <Bjarni> and I'm not too happy about paying for something totally unknown
18:13:57  <Forked> Bjarni: still beta on linux :\
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18:14:16  <peter1138> I downloaded the demo of Crysis(sp?) It was something like 1.3GB.
18:14:46  <Forked> 900MB is not really alot these days.. with blazing superspeed internet
18:15:10  <Eddi|zuHause> <Prof_Frink> No, dat's de river in Egypt. <- most of the river isn't in egypt :p
18:15:52  <Bjarni> I meant more like it's for windows
18:16:14  <Bjarni> besides the shop will only sell me the windows version... and in German :/
18:16:21  <TrueBrain> yorick: lol :) Tnx ;)
18:16:22  <Bjarni> no English version
18:16:27  <Forked> has it for £8
18:16:41  <yorick> TrueBrain: go keep the pattern up :-)
18:17:02  <TrueBrain> today I downloaded a demo on my xbox of 1.2 GiB .. it gave me 90 (!) seconds of play-time, and then you had to restart ..
18:17:16  <TrueBrain> yorick: _very_ doubtful :)
18:18:31  <Bjarni> <Forked> has it for £8 <-- browsing the local stores I can get it for around £6.50 and free shipment
18:18:34  <Forked> Bjarni: but yes, there are more germans than ..others.. that play that series :) same thing with settlers
18:18:38  <Bjarni> it's still windows though
18:18:57  <Forked> there is a demo of x2 for linux
18:19:25  <Forked> 180M
18:19:30  <Forked>
18:19:51  <Forked> never tried x2 myself though, but some people prefer it over x3:reunion (and should I shut up about non-ttd games now?)
18:19:52  <Bjarni> nice
18:19:59  <Bjarni> if you use linux, that is
18:21:11  <Forked> LGP are doing a good job, so I pre-ordered the special edition of x3:r, even though I don't have linux installed on any computer with a monitor right now :)
18:23:49  <peter1138> I tried XBTF. Is that related?
18:23:57  <Forked> I think that is the first game in the series
18:24:03  <peter1138> I thought so too :)
18:24:09  <Forked> I've only played X3: Reunion, and I love it
18:24:26  <Forked> just ignore the storyline and build up an empire
18:24:55  <Forked> they have a great community :)
18:26:07  <peter1138> I've seen some people complain that LGP keep on churning out old ancient stuff.
18:26:33  <Eddi|zuHause> same thing with settlers <- that might be because it's a german game :p
18:26:48  <Forked> eddi: so is the x-series afaik :p
18:26:58  <Forked> still I loved settlers 2 and the 10th year edition of it
18:27:10  <Ammler> best games are from germany or from non-america :-)
18:27:36  <Eddi|zuHause> that'd include japan
18:27:43  <Ammler> hmm
18:27:54  <Ammler> dunno those, FinalFantasy?
18:28:07  <Eddi|zuHause> nintendo is from japan, i think
18:28:11  * peter1138 ponders setting up his own hg repo...
18:28:15  <Forked> peter1138: but yes, it's pretty old.. same with the x3:reunion they are hopefully soon releasing .. considering x3: terran conflict is less than a month away for win32
18:28:17  <Ammler> SuperMario was nice too :-)
18:28:30  <Forked> then again if game is really good, who cares when it's originally from
18:28:42  <peter1138> At least it's native, unlike Eve :o
18:28:58  <Ammler> Forked: doesn't
18:29:24  <peter1138> Uncompressing X2 - The Threat DEMO............................................................................
18:29:27  <peter1138> Hee
18:29:32  <Forked> Ammler: what?
18:29:37  <peter1138> Hmm, the middle button on this new mouse is a bit stiff :o
18:29:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i only played settlers 1 and 2, nothing later
18:29:54  <Forked> it turned to shit after 2
18:29:58  <Ammler> Forked: doesn't matter, from where
18:30:20  <TrueBrain> ever tried the open source settlers?
18:30:25  <TrueBrain> now that version sucks ;)
18:30:41  <peter1138> Lincity...
18:30:45  <Forked> Ammler: I'm still confused :)
18:31:10  <dih> just running make on r14228 did not work, usually it ran ./configure automatically if it needed to, did not do that this time
18:31:28  <dih> i.e. svn up -r 14228 && make
18:31:56  <TrueBrain> dih: you should be more specific :)
18:32:51  <dih> i had a checkout of openttd at r14215 (./configure'd and make'd)
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18:33:10  <Ammler> Forked: doesn't matter, either, the topic is spam :-)
18:33:11  <dih> svn up -r 14228 && make <- that would fail, and i had to run ./configure again
18:33:26  <peter1138> Hmm, it got my throttle wrong :o
18:33:30  <dih> before, make detected if it had to run ./configure and reconfigured using the last settings
18:33:33  <TrueBrain> dih: you should be more specific :)
18:33:39  * dih slaps TrueBrain
18:33:42  <TrueBrain> 'fail' is such a random 'report'
18:33:47  <peter1138> Also, does anyone have a /usr/lib32/alsa-lib/
18:33:49  <Forked> Ammler: noted :)
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18:34:43  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: make fails as Makefile.bundle is missing
18:34:46  <dih> TrueBrain,
18:34:51  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: haha, of course :)
18:35:08  <TrueBrain> see dih, such reports _are_ useful, just saying: 'fail', doesn't help anyone
18:35:14  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: well, not much we can do about that.. :)
18:36:06  <peter1138> Once ./configure is run once, it should be fine, right?
18:36:19  <dih> that is what i thought, at least with openttd
18:36:37  <peter1138> dih, I mean since the changes.
18:36:39  <dih> and make reran ./configure using the old ./configure options if it needed to
18:36:56  <dih> peter1138, yes
18:37:04  <peter1138> So what's the problem?
18:37:19  <dih> it was an automated process and i did not know what was causing the failure
18:37:30  <peter1138> Now you do.
18:37:37  <dih> and was hoping you could catch the situation in the make file and run ./configure the next time automatically
18:38:04  <peter1138> Not worth it.
18:38:14  <dih> k
18:38:19  <dih> all i wanted to hear ;-)
18:44:28  <peter1138> TMWFTLB?
18:44:29  <peter1138> :D
18:45:27  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14229 /trunk/ (7 files in 4 dirs):
18:45:27  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Feature: allow overriding the palette of the base GRFs. This way you can play
18:45:27  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: with NewGRFs made for the Windows palette with the DOS palettes base GRFs (and
18:45:27  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: vice versa). Note that for this to work correctly ALL NewGRFs must use the same
18:45:27  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: palette; mix and match is not yet supported.
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18:50:44  <yorick> *yet* :)
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18:53:48  <Wolf01> nice feature Rubidium :D
18:55:32  <peter1138> Yeah, your DOS-desyncer should be okay now :)
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19:07:33  <glx> <dih> and make reran ./configure using the old ./configure options if it needed to <-- sh config.cache ;)
19:07:48  <dih> uh
19:07:50  <dih> thanks :-)
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19:22:09  <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> Also, does anyone have a /usr/lib32/alsa-lib/ <- i only have "oss", "pulse", "upmix" and "vdownmix", not "jack"
19:22:24  <Eddi|zuHause> where s/32//
19:26:19  <Ammler> ./usr/lib/alsa-lib/
19:26:24  <ccfreak2k> ccfreak2k@helios:/usr/lib/alsa-lib$ ls
19:26:24  <ccfreak2k>**  smixer/
19:26:25  <ccfreak2k>**
19:26:25  <ccfreak2k> ccfreak2k@helios:/usr/lib/alsa-lib$
19:27:56  <Ammler> oh, it was a quote :-)
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19:34:08  <Eddi|zuHause> alsa-plugins-jack 1.0.16-57.1
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19:41:29  <XeryusTC> hmm, openttd opens with the following error: "Failed to find a graphics set. Please aquire a graphics set for OpenTTD."
19:41:41  <XeryusTC> even though I have all the default graphics in the data dir
19:41:44  <yorick> XeryusTC: on windows?
19:41:50  <XeryusTC> yorick: yes
19:42:05  <Noldo> XeryusTC: you need some kind of metadata file
19:42:07  <yorick> try opening the obg files and getting them proper newlines
19:42:35  <XeryusTC> oh
19:42:59  <XeryusTC> why aren't they using svn:eol-native then?
19:43:07  <XeryusTC> or whatever the name of that setting is
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19:45:54  <Rubidium> XeryusTC: they are eol-native
19:46:08  <XeryusTC> :o
19:46:23  <XeryusTC> must be hg then or sth :P
19:46:42  <Rubidium> yes, hg doesn't have said concept
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19:47:52  <Rubidium> and MS apparantly thought it would be useful to increment the "I've seen a '\r'"-counter everytime it sees a '\n' (even when there's no '\r' before the '\n') since MSVC 8
19:49:32  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... merging the timetable changes with daylength is causing headaches
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19:50:19  <Eddi|zuHause> anyone cared to report that bug to microsoft?
19:52:15  <Wolf01> [21:49:37] <Eddi|zuHause> hm... merging the timetable changes with daylength is causing headaches <- oh, I'm happy I'm not the only people which had headaches with daylength :D
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19:59:27  <Eddi|zuHause> well, not headaches because it's so complicated, but headaches because it's so annoying
20:01:30  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r14230 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp table/palette_convert.h): -Codechange: Simplify MapDOSColour() using the new stuff.
20:02:10  <Belugas> that's the price of too much realism in the game ^_^
20:02:18  * Belugas runs away laughing
20:03:18  *** Tim [] has joined #openttd
20:03:22  <Eddi|zuHause> daylength has absolutely _nothing_ to do with realism
20:04:18  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, the trouble is that huge chunks of the timetable patch fail, because one instance of s/DAY_TICKS/DayLength()/
20:07:29  <Rubidium> but it's more realistic if a day takes a day
20:08:30  <frosch123> yup, ottd should become a realtime game
20:08:44  <Tim> But then a train can travel a million times around the world in just one day, which is not too realistic either :D
20:09:26  <frosch123> just add support for 40K x 20K maps
20:09:50  <frosch123> didn't someone said one tile is 1km
20:10:03  <Rubidium> peter1138: <- should be enough, right?
20:10:13  <Eddi|zuHause> i think you're mixing stuff up, frosch123 ;)
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20:11:02  <Eddi|zuHause> 1 tile is 50m (if you count from the length of a passenger wagon ;))
20:11:18  <glx> <@Rubidium> yes, hg doesn't have said concept <-- hg has a setting to autoconvert line endings
20:11:23  <Eddi|zuHause> or more like 20m if you count from its width ;)
20:11:48  <Rubidium> glx: but that isn't on a file-by-file basis
20:11:56  <blathijs> Oh man, not the scale discussion again... :-p
20:12:22  <Rubidium> it's very easy... in this world 10 m = 50 m = 500 m = 686 km
20:12:23  <glx> indeed it's all or nothing, but it works quite well
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20:14:43  <Ammler> Belugas: daylength is not for realism, it is for enjoying openttd even longer
20:14:54  <Ammler> or do you mean the timetable?
20:15:12  <Eddi|zuHause> the timetable is not for realism either, it's for efficiency
20:15:49  <Belugas> why do people think i'm always serious :S
20:16:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think anyone took you seriously ;)
20:17:03  <Belugas> yup.. i'm a joke!
20:17:30  <Ammler> well, I do, :-)
20:17:39  <Noldo> Belugas: where?
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20:18:38  * Ammler thinks about changing to dos with the GRFPack now...
20:18:51  <Ammler> is it worth?
20:19:05  <Ammler> how many GRFs do you use the "dosonly" colors?
20:19:11  <Ammler> -you
20:19:30  <Rubidium> all mb's?
20:19:57  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:20:12  <Ammler> hmm, then I will ask him :-)
20:20:14  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... it got impressingly far with compiling...
20:20:25  <Eddi|zuHause> all the way to timetable_gui.cpp :p
20:22:59  <Marine> guys, if i add 2 engines onto a train does it get more power?
20:23:18  <Rubidium> yes
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20:24:11  <Eddi|zuHause> /home/johannes/spiele/OpenTTDx/paxdest/src/timetable_gui.cpp:699: warning: ‘void ChangeTimetableCallback(Window*, uint32)’ defined but not used <-- is that normal or something i screwed up?
20:24:48  <frosch123> should be used in some DoCommandP
20:25:07  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14231 /trunk/src/ini.cpp: -Fix: Windows binaries not able to read non-windows newlines ini files. For more detail read the 'attached' diff.
20:25:19  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... seems i forgot a chunk
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20:28:03  <Celestar> o/
20:28:13  <Rubidium> o-
20:29:24  <frosch123> o\
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20:29:50  <Bjarni> o|
20:29:58  <Wolf01> 8=D
20:30:11  <Wolf01> ehm, wrong smiley
20:30:28  <Bjarni> is it a smiley?
20:30:35  <Bjarni> some people might think it's something else
20:30:36  <Wolf01> no, it's not
20:30:49  * Celestar requests a topic change
20:30:58  * Bjarni censors Wolf01
20:31:09  <frosch123> Celestar: 'No adult-only smilies' ?
20:31:24  *** Bjarni changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.6.2 | Website: * (Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs, Revision log: vcs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | We Love YAPP | 8=D not allowed
20:31:41  <Bjarni> that should do it
20:31:55  <Eddi|zuHause> that's going to be effective ;)
20:31:59  <Celestar> VERY
20:32:02  <Wolf01> eheh
20:32:14  <Wolf01> really meaningful
20:32:18  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe someone finally will read the topic after all ;)
20:32:39  <Bjarni> it's do direct that nobody should be able to misunderstand it
20:33:03  *** Bjarni changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.6.2 | Website: * (Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs, Revision log: vcs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | We Love YAPP
20:33:10  * Bjarni just realised something
20:33:12  <Ammler> what does "8=D" mean?
20:33:22  <Bjarni> I changed the channel to be a girl only channel >_<
20:33:35  <Bjarni> which in our case would be an empty channel
20:33:44  <Eddi|zuHause> you mean like #lesbians?
20:33:58  <Bjarni> no
20:34:28  <Bjarni> we would have to move to #lesbians
20:35:15  <Ammler> #openlesbians
20:35:34  <Bjarni> err
20:35:43  <Celestar> . . .
20:35:50  <Bjarni> that would really ruin our reputation as a game for all ages
20:36:06  <Eddi|zuHause> wait... nothing of that is my fault...
20:36:50  <Ammler> shouldn't be the toyland for girls
20:37:54  <peter1138> So...
20:37:58  <Vikthor> Ammler: Sure if you mean 5 years old girls and maybe not even them
20:40:25  <Celestar> heh.
20:41:02  <Bjarni> Vikthor: my sister liked Toyland
20:41:06  <Celestar> maybe we could make a ECS for girls ... hair products, body lotion ....
20:41:14  <Rubidium> peter1138: should OpenTTD warn about action 0 feature 11 (B) not being implemented?
20:41:27  <Bjarni> then she turned 8 or 9 or something and she thought it became too childish
20:41:43  <Vikthor> :D
20:41:55  <Vikthor> ok make it 8 then
20:42:00  <Eddi|zuHause> something is horribly screwing up when resizing the timetable window...
20:42:10  <Bjarni>  <Celestar> maybe we could make a ECS for girls ... hair products, body lotion .... <--- isn't that a bit sexist?
20:43:04  <Bjarni> I mean it's not like all girls use stuff like that and some guys use it
20:43:17  <Bjarni> but you appear to be creating a stereotype girl
20:43:20  <peter1138> Rubidium, no, but it has done for ages ;)
20:43:20  <Celestar> Bjarni: no. it's VERY sexist :P
20:43:54  <Bjarni> girls do makeup and guys do serious stuff like construction materials
20:44:05  <peter1138> God this channel turns to crap when Bjarni's around.
20:44:18  <Bjarni> ...
20:44:21  * frosch123 leaves before the topic switches again to trains, depots and cloning
20:44:22  <Bjarni> see
20:44:34  <Bjarni> I'm not the only one who noticed that you talk garbage to me
20:44:35  <Rubidium> night frosch123?
20:44:35  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:44:57  <Bjarni> ok, let's talk about cloning trains in depots
20:45:03  <Eddi|zuHause> who was that braniac who put TIMETABLE_SAVELOAD_VERSION into openttd.h
20:45:15  <Bjarni> svn blame
20:45:26  <Eddi|zuHause> Bjarni: it's not in svn
20:45:41  <Bjarni> then I can't tell you
20:45:43  <Eddi|zuHause> it's from Maedrhos' old timetable patch, i think
20:46:00  <Eddi|zuHause> but it is only used in 2 places
20:46:04  <Bjarni> then I don't care... we didn't accept it :P
20:46:42  <Eddi|zuHause> it was "not finished", not "not accepted"
20:47:05  <Bjarni> whatever... it didn't get into something we support
20:47:08  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remember any discussion even about considering this
20:47:32  <peter1138> Ah, bollocks, I just reverted the wrong file :o
20:48:08  <Bjarni>  <Eddi|zuHause> but it is only used in 2 places <-- some stuff in stdafx.h isn't really used in that many files
20:48:39  <Eddi|zuHause> Bjarni: but nobody really changes it either
20:48:52  <Bjarni> like hardware endian conversion (in macos.h, which is included in stdafx.h). I think it's more or less only used in load/save
20:49:02  <Bjarni> but I didn't change it after I committed it ages ago
20:50:38  <Bjarni> I recall trying some trial and error in changing openttd.h on my 800 MHz system >_<
20:51:19  <Bjarni> did it twice or so and then I decided to do it the old fashioned way and do more than just regular proof reading
20:52:08  <Bjarni> it took like 3-4 minutes or so to make a complete recompile in debug mode
20:52:17  <Bjarni> twice that time for a release build
20:52:35  <Eddi|zuHause> 	/* reserve extra space in savegame here. (currently 10 bytes) */
20:52:36  <Eddi|zuHause> 	SLE_CONDNULL(10,                                                       2, SL_MAX_VERSION),
20:52:41  <Eddi|zuHause> what's that useful for?
20:52:42  <peter1138> Rubidium,
20:53:18  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: some ludde optimisation... nobody else could see the great idea in it and we removed it
20:53:36  <Bjarni> we still have to have a few lines like that in order to load old savegames
20:54:37  <Bjarni> I think the idea was that you could save more data without altering the savegame structure if you could accept the value to be 0 when loading an old savegame
20:54:48  <Rubidium> peter1138: you want to get out-of-memory because of the size of the error message?
20:55:05  <peter1138> Hmm?
20:55:48  <Rubidium> you're storing so many error messages now (I reckon a DS can't handle it)
20:56:23  <Rubidium> I'd remove the commented out few lines of code of @@ -122,12 +124,20
20:56:43  <peter1138> Just did.
20:56:56  <peter1138> What does a DS have to do with GRF errors?
20:57:11  <Rubidium> not much
20:57:21  <peter1138> (If the DS can't cope with a couple of extra errors, it can't cope with loading GRFs)
20:57:35  <Rubidium> just wondering why it's useful to show many errors
20:58:18  <Eddi|zuHause> same as why c compilers don't stop at the first error
20:58:22  <Rubidium> I'm usually: gcc only tell me the root of the error, not all the crap that the (small) mistake caused
20:58:38  <Ammler> you could solve all conflcts at once, else you have to apply and check again...
20:59:57  <Rubidium> peter1138: the rest looks ok
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21:09:43  <glx> Eddi|zuHause: about the "extra space", sometimes they are used to store things without increasing savegame revision
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21:11:07  <Ammler> Rubidium: the windows support for those obg files seems ugly. Thought about writing those at first start like the cfg?
21:11:22  <peter1138> What?
21:11:37  <Rubidium> Ammler: ugly in what way?
21:11:49  <peter1138> ftell() being shit is not our fault.
21:11:55  <Ammler> you have to make "workarounds" :-)
21:12:12  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14232 /trunk/src/core/bitmath_func.hpp: -Codechange: use builtin for byte swapping for gcc >= 4.3
21:12:19  <Ammler> no offense to you, just a thought..
21:12:31  <Rubidium> Ammler: workarounds like?
21:13:11  <Ammler> well, forget it, it just looked, like you had additional work just for windows...
21:13:25  <peter1138> There is always additional work just for Windows.
21:13:31  <peter1138> s
21:13:38  <Ammler> :-)
21:13:38  <glx> that's not new :)
21:14:03  <peter1138> SmatZ, is that faster, or just doing it because it's there?
21:14:29  <glx> the comment says it's faster
21:14:30  <SmatZ> peter1138: bswap is a single instruction
21:14:39  <peter1138> So is BSWAP32() ;)
21:15:05  <SmatZ> do you think it was compiled as single instruction before?
21:15:08  <Bjarni> but how many cycles will this instruction use? :)
21:15:17  <peter1138> SmatZ, I'm thinking of constants.
21:15:22  <SmatZ> eg. gcc saw that "((x >> 24) & 0xFF) | ((x >> 8) & 0xFF00) | ((x << 8) & 0xFF0000) | ((x << 24) & 0xFF000000)" does ...
21:15:29  <SmatZ> ah ok :)
21:15:45  <Bjarni> I think it will produce the same result for constants
21:16:14  <Bjarni> but I think it can improve the speed if the conversion is done at runtime (like when saving)
21:16:34  <Bjarni> but savegames are LE, meaning it will not matter for x86 systems
21:16:53  <Bjarni> it will affect SPARC and PPC though
21:17:04  <glx> [16:22:50] <Celestar> glx: could you please check whether there is some error in cargopacket.cpp:294 ? <-- there is a warning indeed :)
21:17:54  <Rubidium> peter1138: <- that was what you intended with that "Toggle palette"-button, right?
21:17:58  <peter1138> Bjarni, BSWAP32() has pretty much nothing to do with endianness.
21:18:07  <Bjarni> I know
21:18:17  <peter1138> Rubidium, what toggle palette button?
21:19:02  <Bjarni> but we use it to convert from the CPU endianess to the savegame endianess (LE)
21:19:24  <Bjarni> since we convert to and from LE, this function will not be called on LE systems
21:19:34  <Bjarni> it will be called on BE systems
21:19:34  <SmatZ> Bjarni: savegames are BE
21:19:38  <peter1138> In places. it is in other place.s
21:20:01  <Bjarni> <SmatZ> Bjarni: savegames are BE <-- since when. I remember that it was LE and didn't work on BE in the beginning
21:20:03  <SmatZ> but byte swapping is not done in the saveload code...
21:20:04  <Rubidium> peter1138: oh, it was Brianetta who suggested it ;)
21:20:14  <Rubidium> many hours ago
21:20:23  <SmatZ> 	int x = SlReadByte() << 8;
21:20:24  <SmatZ> 	return x | SlReadByte();
21:20:34  <SmatZ> first is read more significant byte
21:20:35  <peter1138> If you're toggling the palette, don't you need to save that in the config file/preset?
21:20:55  <SmatZ> unless SlReadByte() reads data backwards
21:21:01  <peter1138> heh
21:21:15  <Bjarni> so we stopped converting endianess at runtime?
21:21:19  <peter1138> Yeah, that and NewGRF is all done as byte streams.
21:21:31  <peter1138> -new
21:22:13  <Rubidium> peter1138: saving that is tricky at best and doesn't "teach" people to not use many differently paletted NewGRFs.
21:22:21  <Bjarni> then this the latter commit shouldn't change the binary at all
21:22:52  <Bjarni> and my optimisation of BE OSX isn't used anymore either
21:23:24  <Bjarni> however I see no reason to clear the optimised code. For all we know we end up having to convert something at runtime again some day
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21:24:24  <Ammler> Rubidium: would it not be best, just to decide to use only one palette anymore. As you can use it now with both original types?
21:24:40  <Ammler> (for NewGRFS)
21:25:22  <Celestar> gotta go
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21:25:26  <Rubidium> why force the palette conversion to all the Windows-palette users?
21:25:57  <Rubidium> the palette conversion is not free or so
21:26:24  <Ammler> not free means costs of calculation and memory?
21:26:28  <peter1138> Bjarni, maybe you should read thread the code again to catch up on all that you miss.
21:26:41  <Rubidium> Ammler: yes, every time a sprite is read from the file
21:26:51  <peter1138> Because BSWAP32() is definitely used, and any changes to it definitely have an affect.
21:28:54  <peter1138> Also, src/screenshot.cpp:249 is fishy.
21:29:12  <peter1138> We removed something similar from src/spriteloader/png.cpp because it was wrong.
21:29:36  <peter1138> Or rather, unnecessary.
21:29:43  <peter1138> Or something.
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21:31:27  <Bjarni> looks like newgrf*.cpp uses BSWAP32. You expect me to read though all your changes to those files?
21:31:46  * Bjarni think he should start by understanding how to actually use grfcodec
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21:47:31  <Ammler> do I make it right, I started openttd with -I dos and -i1 for win newgrfs
21:47:46  <Ammler> everything looks nice :-)
21:48:18  <Ammler> can I force the client to start with -i1?
21:48:25  <Ammler> as MP server...
21:49:52  <Ammler> the server admin knows, which palette his GRFs has, so it could be i.e. in the save maybe?
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21:51:28  <Ammler> (or is there another way to tell it the client?)
21:52:00  <peter1138> -I original_dos, isn't it?
21:52:20  <Ammler> peter1138: yep, I made a short
21:54:21  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, instead of checking (grfid, md5), you should check (grfid, md5, palette)
21:54:54  <Ammler> well, you could expect the server is using the same palette for all
21:55:21  <Eddi|zuHause> well, all or nothing, that's for sure
21:56:02  <Eddi|zuHause> but that might also change in the future
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22:21:47  <Wolf01> 'night
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