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00:04:35 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 00:07:27 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@147.251.215.232] has quit [Quit: Quit] 00:16:34 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:18:43 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D06C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:21:29 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 00:33:00 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B77252.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 00:33:24 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B76D23.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:35:16 *** herojoker [~herojoker@p5088992E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:46:47 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.231.53] has quit [Quit: ecke] 01:01:32 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:04:48 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 01:14:46 *** fjb_ [~frank@p5485C1E1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:19:22 *** fjb [~frank@p5485CC8C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:37:18 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:56:05 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@resnet601.bournemouth.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:04:18 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:05:47 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:09:06 <DaleStan> @seen Csab 02:09:06 <DorpsGek> DaleStan: I have not seen Csab. 02:09:13 <DaleStan> @seen Csaboka 02:09:13 <DorpsGek> DaleStan: Csaboka was last seen in #openttd 51 weeks, 6 days, 10 hours, 42 minutes, and 6 seconds ago: <Csaboka> I have to go, bye 02:09:24 <DaleStan> @seen Csaba 02:09:24 <DorpsGek> DaleStan: Csaba was last seen in #openttd 47 weeks, 1 day, 7 hours, 5 minutes, and 1 second ago: <csaba> fullload buttton has been activated:) 02:09:34 <DaleStan> *grumble* 02:47:08 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 05:09:00 *** Dr_Jekyll [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0D611.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:43:20 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm61.epsilon123.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 05:44:49 *** nfc [nfc@dsl-hkibrasgw2-fe20de00-185.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 05:56:13 *** grumbel [~grumbel@i577BA41D.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:37:12 *** Joni_- [~Joni-@dsl-vsabrasgw1-ffa0c100-55.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 06:44:17 *** Joni- [~Joni-@dsl-vsabrasgw1-ffa0c100-55.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:12:28 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-229-180.prem.tmns.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:13:29 *** elmex [~elmex@e180065185.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 07:22:38 *** Yeggzzz is now known as Yeggs-work 07:33:43 *** Yeggs-work [~mind@cpc1-rdng14-0-0-cust946.winn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [] 07:34:48 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 07:58:18 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 08:06:48 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:09:13 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 08:16:24 *** Fuco [dota.keys@wireless-162.fi.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 08:27:27 *** mikl [~mikl@cpe.ge-0-2-0-812.0x50c774be.boanqu1.customer.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 08:32:29 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@129.187.69.65] has joined #openttd 08:32:32 *** mode/#openttd [+o Celestar] by ChanServ 08:40:21 *** fjb_ is now known as fjb 08:43:02 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-86-0-83-170.leed.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 08:47:46 *** bleepy [bleepy@5ad51a7c.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:50:09 *** snorre [~snorre@cE9F045C1.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:53:45 *** Zahl [~Zahl@e179207205.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 08:53:59 *** snorre [~snorre@cE9F045C1.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd 08:58:04 *** bleepy [bleepy@5ad1d1b3.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 09:00:46 *** Volley [~worf@84-119-54-39.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #openttd 09:01:07 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm61.epsilon123.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:06:58 <planetmaker> morning :) 09:10:08 <ln> http://www.experts-exchange.com/Web_Development/Miscellaneous/Q_22031739.html 09:10:13 <fjb> Morning planetmaker 09:10:28 <ln> morning slartibartfast 09:11:15 <planetmaker> lool @ ln 09:11:29 <planetmaker> what a nice question asked there... :-P 09:14:22 <ln> i would like to see the accepted solution 09:17:55 <petern> expert sexchange? 09:18:27 <ln> that's a more accurate description of the site. 09:18:45 <petern> odd, normally you can see the results if you scroll right down 09:18:52 <petern> maybe it depends on a google referrer... 09:19:14 <ln> yeah, normally. 09:19:26 <petern> haha, it does 09:19:38 <petern> if you search for the title on google, go to it that way 09:19:42 <petern> you get the answers then 09:19:49 <petern> blatant search rigging 09:20:27 <petern> Try this function 09:20:27 <petern> Function UnRnd() 09:20:27 <petern> UnRnd = 4 'my favourite number! 09:20:27 <petern> End Function 09:20:28 <petern> IntTemp = Int((255 * UnRnd()) + 1) 09:20:31 <petern> hehe 09:20:33 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 09:22:13 <fjb> Nice solution to that problem. 09:22:52 <ln> wtf, the accepted solution provides no solution at all, not even a stupid one. 09:25:07 <fjb> Maybe replacing his brain would be acceptet as a solution. 09:26:08 <ccfreak2k> http://xkcd.com/221/ 09:38:51 <Celestar> :) 09:39:59 *** Fuco [dota.keys@wireless-162.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Quit: Quit] 09:49:01 <Celestar> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Frankfurt_Hbf_Gleise.jpg <= this looks almost like a model railway :P 09:51:41 <fjb> Proportions are more TTD like. :-) 09:52:48 <ln> it has more than the max of 4 tracks per station. 09:53:33 <fjb> Did TTD have that maximum? 09:54:52 <ln> it did and does. 09:56:28 <ccfreak2k> IS this the next version of OpenTTD? 09:57:36 <fjb> Would be fun. Bigger buildings, curved tracks and less space between the tracks. 09:58:59 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-229-180.prem.tmns.net.au] has left #openttd [] 09:59:36 <Celestar> er that is a real station you know :P 10:00:08 <fjb> No, not possible, look at the wagons, way too short. 10:03:05 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:03:30 <Celestar> yeah right :P 10:03:59 <Celestar> *cough* telephoto lens *cough* 10:07:44 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 10:08:45 *** Volley [~worf@84-119-54-39.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:12:42 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5DFF2.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 10:13:49 <Brianetta> If that's TTD, then there are fake trains. 10:14:08 <Brianetta> You can't put two parallel tracks on one tile like that. 10:16:32 <TrueBrain> If that is TTD, we failed to keep 3D out :( 10:20:26 <Celestar> lol 10:20:40 <petern> The wonders of telephoto lenses. 10:20:47 <petern> That would be really cool... 10:21:08 <petern> Looks a bit busy. 10:21:35 <Celestar> yeah 10:21:52 <Celestar> 650 trains a day plus the S-Bahn 10:21:59 <Celestar> (which are another 1100 trains a day) 10:22:00 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F946.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:22:23 <petern> That bit on the lower right corner looks really odd. 10:22:55 <TrueBrain> for some reason Debian removed subversion AGAIN 10:23:02 <TrueBrain> it seems to think I don't want it .. 10:23:20 <Celestar> petern: what about it? 10:23:57 <petern> It's just the curve and slope combined make it look not right. 10:24:10 <Celestar> yeah 10:24:12 <petern> TrueBrain: unstable? 10:24:13 <Celestar> you mean the ramp? 10:24:16 <petern> Yes 10:24:42 <TrueBrain> petern: no; and it only happens when I install an other package that depends on it, remove thatone, and run autoremove .. and not always, just in some weird cases .. 10:24:44 <TrueBrain> stupid system 10:25:08 <petern> lenny? 10:25:13 <petern> etch? 10:25:15 <petern> Hmm 10:25:17 <TrueBrain> lenny 10:25:38 * petern only runs etch, so has no encountered that. 10:25:41 * Celestar wonders why they still use sleepers on the new tracks from Munich to Augsburg 10:25:52 <blathijs> What is autoremove supposed to do? Sounds like it is broken by design :-) 10:26:02 <TrueBrain> I doubt it is lenny specific .. most likely my usage of the apt-system is somewhat wrong .. what ever 10:26:12 <petern> Oh 10:26:15 <TrueBrain> NoAI takes almost one minute longer to compile :$ 10:26:30 <TrueBrain> (well, on a single core) 10:26:31 <petern> blathijs, autoremove removes packages were installed automatically along with something else 10:26:34 <blathijs> Hmm, the text from the manpage suggests that it should be removing it in your case 10:26:35 <TrueBrain> from 2m6 to 3m5 10:26:51 <petern> It's a great help for clearing up dependencies if you remove something. 10:26:55 <TrueBrain> (trunk vs noai) 10:27:07 <blathijs> petern: I usually use aptitude, which has that feature without a special command (for quite some time longer than that autoremove exists) 10:27:15 <blathijs> hardly ever have problems there 10:27:30 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-14-116.prem.tmns.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:27:47 <blathijs> TrueBrain: you should try to reproduce the problem, on a clean lenny system for example, and then file a bugreport :-) 10:27:55 <TrueBrain> problem with 'apt-get' is that you get this BIG list of things it will remove .... and that is absoutely unclear 10:28:02 <TrueBrain> aptitude ahs the problem that his screen is WAY too small .. 10:28:18 <TrueBrain> blathijs: absolutely no interest in doing that :p 10:29:05 <blathijs> Huh? Why does aptitude make your screen smaller? 10:29:06 <petern> When I tried using aptitide it went ahead and installed all the recommends without me asking it. 10:29:20 <TrueBrain> blathijs: did I say small_er_? No, I said: SMALL 10:29:32 <petern> TrueBrain, aptitude has a command line mode too. 10:29:35 <TrueBrain> it has, what, 10 lines of the upper part 10:29:39 <TrueBrain> where you can review stuff ... 10:29:45 <TrueBrain> really ... it annoys the hell out of me 10:29:54 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Smaller than your physical screen, I mean 10:30:03 <TrueBrain> petern: how useful ... :p 10:30:06 <petern> Apparently it is recommended over apt now. I dislike it. 10:30:09 <blathijs> But you mean that the division is not useful 10:30:14 <Celestar> Brianetta: why would anyone build sleeper-based tracks these days? :P 10:30:18 <TrueBrain> really, the best package manager I have seen so far, is emerge .. simple and efficient 10:30:34 <TrueBrain> blathijs: my physcial screen is 80x24 10:30:37 <TrueBrain> not much to do about that 10:30:39 <petern> I tried Gentoo. emerge fucked my system up. 10:30:48 <TrueBrain> and I am pretty sure aptitude uses all 24 liens .. just not as efficient as one might hope 10:30:54 <blathijs> TrueBrain: For me, aptitude just divides my screen into two equal parts, which does mean around 10 lines on a 80x24 terminal yes :-) 10:31:00 <petern> Well, okay, I must have done it because surely nobody would write something that would fuck it up. 10:31:03 <TrueBrain> petern: how can 'emerge' fuck up your system? :p 10:31:11 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Try the "D" key in aptitude 10:31:15 <petern> But for me it wouldn't do any sort of dependency upgrading. 10:31:19 <TrueBrain> blathijs: an in those 10 lines you need to NAVIGATE .. I mean, come on ...... :( 10:31:42 <TrueBrain> petern: Gentoo is nasty to install, as you need to do everything yourself .. easy to fuck up on many many places :) 10:31:58 <TrueBrain> but, if it is running, emerge rarely makes mistakes (2 times a year or so) 10:32:10 <TrueBrain> and at least gives you a clear dep-tree, and what is hapening where .. 10:32:15 <petern> It left tons of packages out of date :( 10:32:16 <blathijs> Besides, aptitude also works fine on the commandline (ie, like emerge, or does emerge have a UI now?) 10:32:19 <TrueBrain> emerge -uavND world ;) 10:32:24 <petern> Yes, I did. 10:32:26 <TrueBrain> you need to know that command ... :p 10:32:42 <petern> It did one or two things, but not every thing. 10:32:44 <TrueBrain> wouldn't know, I use CLI for package management where possible 10:33:04 <TrueBrain> petern: and if that fails, something went wrong in the init, and emerge -uavND system, fixes it 90% of the time :) 10:33:16 <petern> The install guide I used used colour codes to show optional bits, i.e. "do it this way" was green and "or do it this way" was red. 10:33:20 <petern> Unfortunately it was a plain text file. 10:33:28 <TrueBrain> (if you start with 2006.0 and upgrade directly to 2008.0, things break .. :p) 10:33:37 <petern> So there was no indication of what should be done. 10:33:47 <petern> I used it a few years ago. 10:33:52 *** Zealotus [~Ping@78-69-54-150-no70.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:33:53 <TrueBrain> hahahha :) 10:34:21 <petern> Anyway, Debian is the only thing I'll run on servers. 10:34:28 <petern> Well, Linux servers anyway. 10:34:29 <TrueBrain> blathijs: 'D' makes it better, but .... well ... lack of clear documentation makes that impossible to know :p 10:34:40 <DJNekkid> the first sound useing action 11, is 00 80 right? 10:34:49 <TrueBrain> I sadly enough currentyl need to manage both Windows Server 2008, and Fedora Core 7 .. bah :p 10:34:52 <DJNekkid> for use in the var10 block? 10:35:08 <petern> Pardon? 10:35:19 <blathijs> TrueBrain: You could have tried the ? or F1 keys to find that command 10:35:30 <petern> The first sound is clearly 00 00 10:35:40 <TrueBrain> blathijs: yeah .. sure ... 10:35:42 <TrueBrain> like with screen 10:35:46 <TrueBrain> read through the manual!! 10:35:48 <TrueBrain> still you get lost .. :p 10:35:49 <petern> Why would you start at 0x8000? 10:35:58 <TrueBrain> sorry, if software REQUIRES to read the manual, the software is broken by design :) 10:36:12 <DJNekkid> "Values from 0 to 72 (dec) are TTD's built-in sound effects, values beyond that refer to the sounds from Action 11" 10:36:32 <TrueBrain> anyway ... what was I planning for this beautiful day ... 10:36:51 <petern> Yes. 10:36:57 <DJNekkid> hmm 10:37:08 <DJNekkid> i guess its dec73 thats the first one then ... 10:37:13 <petern> What does 0x8000 have to do with that? And what's a var10 block? 10:38:00 <DJNekkid> var10 is what is needed in front of a few callbacks, 33 and 36 amongst others 10:38:10 <blathijs> TrueBrain: I'm curious as to how you prefer to use cli software, without reading documentation... But well, let's just say you're not much of an aptitude user :-) 10:39:27 <petern> So you mean testing varaction2 variable 10. 10:39:38 <petern> Then 00 00 is the first sound effect. 10:40:19 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:40:28 <petern> To signify it is a callback, you add the 0x8000, but that is not part of the value. 10:41:58 <petern> Hmm, dedicated servers use a fair bit of CPU time even when paused :o 10:42:13 <petern> I guess it's all those queries. 10:43:38 <DJNekkid> hmm... 10:43:53 <petern> Oh, it's a design flaw :o 10:43:55 <Ammler> is it possible to fix the IP for userspace on a server with 64 different IPs, like server_bind_ip but for everything. 10:44:22 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:44:58 <Ammler> now we have 3 different IPs for ottd, ap and web. 10:45:48 <DJNekkid> http://paste.openttd.org/119482http://paste.openttd.org/119482 10:46:01 <DJNekkid> bah, 2 links 10:46:03 <DJNekkid> http://paste.openttd.org/119482 10:47:33 <Ammler> dear TrueBrain, maybe SysOp knows something about? 10:47:59 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B82C8F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:48:40 <petern> And you want them to do what? 10:48:50 <petern> Are you talking about websites, or general applications? 10:49:32 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80DE0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 10:49:35 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 10:49:48 <Ammler> petern: the problem might be autopilot (tcl) 10:50:11 <petern> DJNekkid, your sound will be at 73. 10:50:19 <petern> Ammler, why? 10:50:31 <DJNekkid> so, 73 00 ? 10:50:35 <DJNekkid> or 73 80? 10:50:41 <petern> I don't know what network communication autopilot does. 10:50:43 <petern> DJNekkid, neither. 10:50:50 <petern> It's decimal. 10:50:53 <Ammler> not possible to bind it to a ip, 10:51:07 <DJNekkid> \w73 then ? ;) 10:51:09 <petern> The value is 0x0049, so you need to put in "49 80" 10:51:30 <DJNekkid> ahh :) 10:52:37 <petern> Ammler, I mean, what bit of it talks TCP/IP? 10:53:06 <Ammler> autopilot does IRC 10:53:29 <Ammler> well, it is not really nescesary, was just wondering 10:53:45 <petern> Right, so you want to fix the IRC client's source address. 10:53:55 <Ammler> the hostmaks, yes. 10:54:11 <Ammler> for identify 10:54:27 <petern> No, a source address is not a hostmask. 10:55:05 <Ammler> depense from where you look, doesn0t? 10:55:10 <petern> No it doesn't. 10:55:29 <petern> Only if you're an idiot. 10:55:33 <Ammler> :-) 10:55:39 <petern> Although that's quite believable. 10:55:53 <Ammler> well, I mean the address you get if you whois someone. 10:55:56 <petern> A hostmask is a *mask* that matches a *host* 10:56:08 <Ammler> yes. 10:56:23 <petern> When you /whois someone, you do not get a hostmask. 10:56:28 <Ammler> and to match the host, I would like to keep it constant 10:56:30 <petern> You get a nick!user@hostname 10:56:43 <Ammler> yeah, sorry. 10:57:03 <Ammler> but if the hostname changes, I need to change the mask 10:57:05 <petern> Anyway, as nobody uses tcl these days, I cannot find information on mod_irc. 10:57:10 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 10:57:49 *** ecke [~ecke@pc154-195.upce.cz] has joined #openttd 10:58:57 <petern> Hmm, maybe mod_irc is part of autopilot anyway. 10:59:08 <Ammler> it is 10:59:27 *** ecke [~ecke@pc154-195.upce.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:00:20 <Ammler> well, I guess, it is :-) 11:00:39 <petern> Yeah, the irc part isn't. 11:00:47 <petern> Doesn't look like it supports setting the source address :/ 11:02:11 <Ammler> hmm, well, we could set the mask to match the whole net. 11:02:38 <petern> hostmasks don't support CIDR though. 11:02:50 <petern> (Do they?) 11:03:34 <Ammler> something like 195.20.204.192/8 ? 11:04:14 <petern> Right. 11:05:14 <Ammler> oh, only 6 11:05:22 <petern> Hmm? 11:05:28 <Ammler> for 64 ips. 11:05:33 <DJNekkid> hmm, still no sound tho... 11:06:33 <petern> For a block of 64 the it would be /26. 11:06:41 <petern> +n 11:07:02 <SpComb> source-address-selection algorithms <3 11:07:04 <Ammler> oh 11:07:15 <SpComb> it might be tweakable via iproute 11:07:36 <TrueBrain> [12:39] <blathijs> TrueBrain: I'm curious as to how you prefer to use cli software, without reading documentation... But well, let's just say you're not much of an aptitude user :-) <- good software doesn't need documentation to makes itself clear. When you need to read a docuement, it means it is too complicated for any average user 11:07:36 <SpComb> you could set it to preferr some specific source address for certain destinations 11:07:44 <SpComb> e.g. irc servers 11:07:57 <Noldo> TrueBrain: you are an average user? 11:07:58 <Ammler> SpComb: but I fear only serverwide 11:08:01 <SpComb> but that's a global system-level policy change 11:08:11 <Ammler> :-) 11:08:23 <SpComb> you need to have your application code bind to a specific port for the outgoing connections 11:08:23 <Brianetta> "When you need to read a docuement, it means it is too complicated for any average user" <- Computers *are* too complicated for any average user. 11:08:32 <TrueBrain> Ammler: in general it is not possible to make a userspace ip bind .. as that is the primary IP :) 11:08:35 * petern attempts to squeeze 4 racks into 3. 11:08:36 <TrueBrain> but: use vservers 11:08:39 <SpComb> it's not very complicated to do, but many applications omit support for that 11:09:16 <SpComb> it might be simpler to just add in a call to `bind` in your application code than hack it via vserver 11:10:04 <SpComb> hmm... vserver came with some util that affected things like binding to IP addresses 11:10:22 <SpComb> kind of similar to chroot, but for network devices 11:10:50 * petern wonders how close lenny is to release. 11:10:53 <TrueBrain> 'hack it via vserver', HAHAHAHAHA 11:10:56 <TrueBrain> you so missed the point 11:11:05 <Ammler> vserver is indeed nice idea 11:11:11 <TrueBrain> LOL! That is most likely the worst description of vserver I have ever read .. :p 11:11:11 <FauxFaux> petern: HAHAHAHAHAHAH 11:11:15 <petern> :( 11:11:23 <FauxFaux> 06/12:11:15 < BTS> FauxFaux: There are 259 release-critical bugs in the testing distribution. See http://bts.turmzimmer.net/details.php?bydist=lenny&igncontrib=on&ignnonfree=on 11:11:36 <TrueBrain> Ammler: with vserver you directly have a safe split of those services 11:11:36 <Noldo> petern: http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ it's about 270 rc's away 11:11:43 <petern> Boo... 11:11:50 <Ammler> petern: thanks for correction, stupid me looked from wrong side... :-) 11:11:53 <TrueBrain> both security-wise, as network-wise, as resource-wise 11:11:56 <TrueBrain> solves all your problems :) 11:12:01 <TrueBrain> either way: good day all, got to go :) 11:12:12 <petern> My (4 year old) server does not run properly with etch's kernel. 11:12:13 <SpComb> `chbind --ip <IP address> <command > <args>` 11:12:30 <SpComb> so you can just use vserver's network utils to do that 11:12:31 <petern> It works fine with lenny's kernel, but the vserver stuff is different :( 11:12:53 <FauxFaux> petern: Etchnhalf kernel?# 11:13:17 <petern> That doesn't work either, and there is no etchnhalf vserver kernel anyway. 11:13:18 <FauxFaux> Oh, if it's vserver any kernel change will probably screw you. 11:13:25 <FauxFaux> :) 11:13:46 <petern> I guess that's why there is no etchnhalf vserver :) 11:14:13 <SpComb> Ammler: so if you don't want to modify the code, you can just run the application under chbind 11:14:43 <petern> The lenny kernel vserver does run, but the settings are slightly different. This causes it to not install properly. It'll run, but it won't have finished :( 11:15:39 <petern> chbind: vc_set_ipv4root(): Function not implemented 11:15:54 <petern> It won't work on its own. 11:16:35 <petern> Oh 11:16:39 <Ammler> bash: chbind: command not found 11:16:41 <petern> sudo /usr/sbin/chbind --nid 1 --ip 127.0.0.1 ./openttd -D 11:16:46 <petern> dbg: [net] Listening on 0.0.0.0:3979 11:16:47 <petern> Hah 11:23:09 *** CIA-7 [~CIA@208.69.182.149] has joined #openttd 11:23:09 *** CIA-1 [~CIA@208.69.182.149] has quit [] 11:23:11 *** CIA-7 [~CIA@208.69.182.149] has quit [] 11:23:36 <SpComb> Ammler: you'll need to install ssome vserver package or other 11:24:25 <Ammler> well, I will suggest it to the server owner :-) 11:24:48 <Ammler> maybe setup a vserver for could be a option too. 11:24:58 <SpComb> and it'll probably require some semi-modern kernel 11:24:58 <SpComb> so if you're running 2.4 or somesuch, it might not be possible 11:25:21 <Ammler> oh, he is running debian :-( 11:26:36 <Ammler> 2.6.18 11:27:02 <Ammler> not that _old_ _) 11:27:18 <TrueBrain> util-vserver requires a vserver kernel; chbind is part of util-vserver 11:27:30 <TrueBrain> so you need the vserver kernel loaded before you can use any of the tools 11:27:43 <TrueBrain> all sane OSes have the vserver kernel as option 11:28:03 <Ammler> is that xen? 11:28:21 <TrueBrain> xen is a completely different way of virutalization 11:28:26 <TrueBrain> vserver and openvz are on the same level 11:28:28 <SpComb> no, xen and vserver are two different things 11:28:35 <TrueBrain> kvm is on an other level 11:28:38 <SpComb> 2.6.18 doesn't have xen in mainline 11:28:44 <TrueBrain> and xen is comparible to kvm (kind of, not really) 11:28:48 <Ammler> vserver can only virtualize other linuxes then? 11:29:12 <Ammler> just a better chroot? 11:29:22 <blathijs> Ammler: vserver can virtualize any userspace that can run on a linux kernel :-) 11:29:32 <TrueBrain> it is a fancy chroot, just I won't call it that 11:29:37 <blathijs> Ammler: Since it virtualizes userspace only, there is still only a single kernel 11:29:56 <TrueBrain> Ammler: vserver shares the kernel (which makes it much faster than, say, Xen) 11:30:04 <SpComb> vserver extends the chroot concept and uses kernel contexts to do "virtualisation" 11:30:06 <TrueBrain> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform_virtualization 11:30:09 <SpComb> although perhaps containers is a better term 11:30:27 <TrueBrain> vserver == Linux-Vserver (its original name) 11:31:08 <Ammler> well, maybe he does already support vservers :-) 11:31:28 <Ammler> can I see that with aname? 11:31:31 <Ammler> uname 11:31:32 <TrueBrain> uname -a will tell you 11:32:10 <TrueBrain> (Well, not always, but any sane sysop will have it visible :p) 11:32:35 <TrueBrain> 'uname -a' yes ;) 11:32:44 <TrueBrain> else, install util-vserver, and run: vserver-info 11:32:51 <SpComb> cat /proc/virtual/info 11:33:18 <SpComb> at least I assume that's vserver stuff 11:33:43 <Ammler> no virtual here 11:33:51 <Ammler> 2.6.18.1.20061115-ralph.33.p4 #1 SMP PREEMPT 11:33:54 <TrueBrain> I believe openvz uses that too 11:35:01 <TrueBrain> that is a special kernel :p 11:35:04 <Ammler> but if vserver isn't much additional performance usage, he might think about. 11:35:29 <TrueBrain> I like it, as it makes things a bit more secure 11:35:40 <TrueBrain> take OpenTTD .. if Apache goes out to play again, it only takes down all www-stuff 11:35:48 <TrueBrain> the compile-farm is not affected 11:35:54 <TrueBrain> or when WT2 thinks about consuming all his memory 11:35:57 <TrueBrain> only WT2 crashes 11:36:10 <TrueBrain> makes my world a little bit more simple ;) 11:36:22 <Ammler> :-P 11:36:23 *** MapperOG [~MapperOG@p57B2DBC6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:36:37 <TrueBrain> above that, there is no way to reach WT2 from the outside world 11:36:49 <TrueBrain> (it is on a local IP) 11:37:11 <TrueBrain> oh well, my second try to leave, I just missed my train, so here is an other chance :) 11:37:14 <TrueBrain> bye all, good luck Ammler :) 11:37:23 <Ammler> TrueBrain: thanks 11:37:27 * SpComb almost managed to miss his train 11:37:44 <SpComb> I walked out of the train station and started wondering what train it was that was sitting there at the platform 11:39:16 * Ammler is playing around with xfce Desktop 11:40:20 <Ammler> nice idea with those "docks" 11:46:32 *** CIA-1 [~CIA@208.69.182.149] has joined #openttd 11:54:21 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:55:02 *** DJNekkid [~chatzilla@static128-249.adsl.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:57:47 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 11:58:46 <petern> vserver is nice. 12:02:59 *** mortal` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 12:06:57 *** DJNekkid [~chatzilla@static128-249.adsl.no] has joined #openttd 12:08:41 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:09:15 <SpComb> it has its place alongside things like xen 12:14:05 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 12:15:04 *** Fuco [dota.keys@wireless-169.fi.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 12:15:16 *** Yeggstry [~mind@cpc1-rdng14-0-0-cust946.winn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 12:15:18 * FauxFaux hearts xen. 12:16:25 <welshdragon> FauxFaux, it's <3 12:17:21 <FauxFaux> xen ⥠/me. 12:21:56 <Celestar> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/28884.jpg 12:21:59 <Celestar> heh 12:22:30 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 12:24:14 <Celestar> hm. 12:24:46 <Celestar> a Big Boy needed up to 25 tons of coal per hour. That's about 7kg per second. were they fed manually? 12:29:34 <ccfreak2k> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:4017_Backhead_20040426.jpg It all seems so simple from the comfortable OpenTTD interface. 12:30:04 <FauxFaux> O_o 12:30:27 *** Aylomen [~a@DSL01.83.171.155.188.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has joined #openttd 12:31:31 <Celestar> ccfreak2k: yeah ;) 12:31:42 <Doorslammer> Automatic I think 12:31:43 <Celestar> the labelling of the valves is impressive (= 12:32:11 <Celestar> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/FST_ICE3.jpg <= I kind of prefer this :P 12:33:59 <petern> There's still a lot of butons on that... 12:36:42 *** grumbel [~grumbel@i577AC7E1.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 12:36:45 <Celestar> yeah, mainly for querying the train status and the "electronic timetable" 12:37:29 <Celestar> I still wonder whether the big steam engines had automatic "feeding" or if there were like 4 people busy shovelling coal 12:38:33 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 12:38:36 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:38:50 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@bib-theater33.hku.nl] has joined #openttd 12:38:53 <Celestar> WTH 12:40:17 <Celestar> so a Big Boy needed up to 25000 kg of coal per hour. Assuming 1kg of coal is around 25 MJ/mh, that's a thermal input of 625 000MJ per hour, or 173 MW 12:40:30 <Celestar> that's an efficiency of like 5% 12:42:55 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-148-036.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 12:43:32 *** fonso [~fonso@brln-d9bacaef.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:49:32 <petern> Hmm 12:49:45 <petern> So do I want the security of vserver, or the ease of use of ... not using it? 12:51:14 *** Netsplit resistance.oftc.net <-> larich.oftc.net quits: lobster 12:53:13 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 12:53:27 <SpComb> petern: depends on what measure of security this is 13:05:00 <SpComb> PigSQL 13:08:56 *** Yeggstry [~mind@cpc1-rdng14-0-0-cust946.winn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [] 13:09:25 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@bib-theater33.hku.nl] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:17:40 <petern> Just general "keep things separate" security. 13:18:59 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@bib-theater33.hku.nl] has joined #openttd 13:19:06 <blathijs> It can also make things easier to manage (ie, use a new vserver for some testing, without messing up your existing setup) 13:21:59 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 13:23:39 <petern> So far I've found that newvserver messes with the hosts /etc/motd, which is a bit odd. 13:25:04 <petern> I don't know why, though. 13:25:29 <petern> Maybe I'll ask in #debian :) 13:29:02 *** Fuco [dota.keys@wireless-169.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Quit: Quit] 13:33:48 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:34:09 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@wireless-169.fi.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 13:35:02 *** mcbane [~Maui_key@p5498F01F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:39:48 <Belugas> hello 13:40:08 <glx> @openttd port 13:40:08 <DorpsGek> glx: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound) 13:41:34 <mcbane> george dont hang around here somtime by chance? 13:42:45 <Belugas> no, nor in #tycoon. he does not do IRC at all 13:43:20 <glx> we are lucky ;) 13:43:37 <mcbane> ok =| 13:44:46 <Belugas> hehehe ;) 13:47:19 *** welshdragon [~vista@adsl-83-100-138-245.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:52:46 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-86-0-83-170.leed.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 13:54:30 *** Chrill [~chrischri@c80-216-96-107.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 13:59:27 *** mcbane [~Maui_key@p5498F01F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 14:07:46 *** MapperOG [~MapperOG@p57B2DBC6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:09:08 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@bib-theater33.hku.nl] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:33:16 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 14:34:11 *** helb_ is now known as helb 14:34:52 *** Muxy [~Benoit@smtp.bdelalande.net] has joined #openttd 14:39:10 *** Muxy [~Benoit@smtp.bdelalande.net] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.5 : http://kopete.kde.org] 14:39:44 *** Muxy [~Benoit@smtp.bdelalande.net] has joined #openttd 14:40:15 *** Muxy [~Benoit@smtp.bdelalande.net] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.5 : http://kopete.kde.org] 14:40:28 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@82-171-89-81.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 14:42:33 *** Muxy [~Benoit@smtp.bdelalande.net] has joined #openttd 14:48:13 <petern> Gah, I have to update my server to lenny to let vserver work properly :( 14:49:18 <blathijs> I'm running vserver on etch, so it can work in general I think? 14:49:40 <blathijs> though I think I might have compiled my own kernel with a newer kernel patch, though 14:50:10 <petern> Yes, it works, but etch's kernel does not work properly on my server. 14:51:11 <blathijs> ah 14:52:08 <petern> Hmm, the OpenTTD dedicated server runs lenny... 14:53:57 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5ad38369.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:57:48 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5adb1d94.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 15:10:01 *** Chrill [~chrischri@c80-216-96-107.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [] 15:10:17 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5adb1d94.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:14:51 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:15:42 *** Purno [~Purno@5350931D.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 15:19:51 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5ad3834b.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 15:26:56 *** Zealotus [~Ping@78-69-54-150-no70.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 15:30:01 *** DJNekkid [~chatzilla@static128-249.adsl.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:39:36 *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@80.101.115.82] has joined #openttd 15:41:17 *** fonso [~fonso@brln-d9bacaef.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.7 : http://kopete.kde.org] 15:42:58 *** dvo [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 15:48:34 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-14-116.prem.tmns.net.au] has quit [] 16:02:51 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5ad3834b.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:04:01 *** mikl [~mikl@cpe.ge-0-2-0-812.0x50c774be.boanqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:06:44 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5adb1db3.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 16:08:11 *** [com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has joined #openttd 16:14:11 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ff426.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 16:28:16 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a46ad5.virnxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 16:28:17 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 16:29:42 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 16:31:34 *** Phoenix_the_II [rdeboom@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 16:33:22 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@82-171-89-81.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:33:53 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.231.53] has joined #openttd 16:43:23 *** ben_ [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 16:43:36 *** ben_ is now known as Sacro 16:44:57 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A43482.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:45:49 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@129.187.69.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:52:53 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 16:58:43 *** MapperOG [~MapperOG@p57B2FD90.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:59:02 *** welshdragon [~vista@adsl-83-100-138-245.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 16:59:45 *** Zuu [~Zuu@c-143c71d5.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 17:02:02 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A6DB1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:03:05 *** Yeggstry [~mind@cpc1-rdng14-0-0-cust946.winn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 17:03:32 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80DE0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:04:38 *** mikl [~mikl@4003ds5-vbr.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 17:05:44 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B83592.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:05:47 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 17:06:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r14443 /trunk/ (6 files): -Change: Unify the delimiters used in config* and make* 17:16:38 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host213-160-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:16:44 <Wolf01> hello 17:21:03 <Bjarni> hello Wolf01 17:21:14 <Wolf01> hi Bjarni! 17:32:52 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@resnet649.bournemouth.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 17:35:40 *** Muxy [~Benoit@smtp.bdelalande.net] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.5 : http://kopete.kde.org] 17:36:36 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A6DB1.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 17:37:48 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@wireless-169.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Quit: Quit] 17:40:47 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 17:40:56 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [] 17:42:07 <ln> nw: dexter 3x02 720 17:45:57 <fjb> How can I tell a ./configure script where my lua installation is? I'm too stupid to compile anything C related... 17:46:31 <petern> Depends on the script. If it's a system-wide install it should be automatic. 17:47:14 <fjb> It only looks a a standard place for one Linux distribution. 17:47:30 <fjb> I set some shell varaibles: 17:47:34 <fjb> setenv CPPFLAGS -I/usr/local/include/lua50 17:47:56 <fjb> setenv LUA_EXEC /usr/local/bin/lua50 17:48:24 <petern> Uh 17:48:34 <ln> autoconf hurts you and people around you. 17:48:38 <petern> usually ./configure --with-lua=/usr/local/include/lua50 17:48:40 <petern> or something like that 17:48:41 <fjb> setenv LDFLAGS -L/usr/local/lib/lua5 17:48:53 <fjb> setenv LDFLAGS -L/usr/local/lib/lua50 17:49:09 <fjb> Ok, I will try that 17:51:20 <fjb> ./configure --with-lua=/usr/local/include/lua50 is not working 17:52:09 <fjb> With my environment variables set I get: 17:52:13 <fjb> checking for lua... /usr/local/bin/lua50 17:52:15 <fjb> ./configure: line 4968: test: -lt: unary operator expected 17:52:16 <fjb> checking for library containing lua_open... none required 17:52:18 <fjb> checking for library containing luaL_loadfile... no 17:52:21 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A43482.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 17:54:00 <fjb> ./configure --enable-lua=yes results in: 17:54:15 <fjb> checking for lua... /usr/local/bin/lua50 17:54:16 <fjb> ./configure: line 4968: test: -lt: unary operator expected 17:54:18 <fjb> checking for library containing lua_open... -llua 17:54:19 <fjb> checking for library containing luaL_loadfile... no 17:54:58 <fjb> But isn't lua_open and luaL_loadfile in the same lib? 17:55:55 <fjb> grep says: 17:55:59 <fjb> Binary file /usr/local/lib/lua50/liblualib-5.0.so.0 matches 17:56:00 <fjb> Binary file /usr/local/lib/lua50/liblualib.a matches 17:56:02 <fjb> Binary file /usr/local/lib/lua50/liblualib.so matches 17:56:48 <fjb> So what am I doing wrong? It finds lua_open but not luaL_loadfile. 17:58:13 <Sacro> < fjb> So what am I doing wrong? <- spamming inanly 17:58:27 <fjb> Thank you for your help. 17:59:30 *** dvo [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00:43 <petern> --with-lua=/usr/local might be enough 18:00:51 <petern> Failing that, you could install it in a properly location :p 18:01:27 <petern> -ly 18:04:30 <fjb> This is not Linux. The location is proper for all other applications on this system. 18:05:05 <Sacro> what OS? 18:05:13 *** Muxy_fr [~Benoit@smtp.bdelalande.net] has joined #openttd 18:06:42 <fjb> FreeBSD 18:07:03 <fjb> --with-lua=/usr/local doesn't find lua 18:08:20 <fjb> setting CPPFLAGS and LDFLAGS finds lus, but only the functions from liblua.so 18:08:52 <fjb> It doesn't find the functions from liblualib.so 18:09:11 <fjb> Stupid autoconf 18:10:36 *** Muxy_fr [~Benoit@smtp.bdelalande.net] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.5 : http://kopete.kde.org] 18:10:40 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 18:12:36 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B83592.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:13:44 <petern> Does it say what version of Lua is expected? 18:14:13 *** Muxy [~Benoit@smtp.bdelalande.net] has joined #openttd 18:14:48 <ln> is there a degrading word for football/soccer in english? 18:14:59 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B83134.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:14:59 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 18:15:11 *** Muxy [~Benoit@smtp.bdelalande.net] has left #openttd [] 18:15:42 *** Volley [~worf@84-119-54-39.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #openttd 18:15:47 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@82.139.240.143] has joined #openttd 18:15:50 *** mode/#openttd [+o Celestar] by ChanServ 18:15:55 <petern> Yeah, "soccer" ;) 18:16:04 <fjb> I found lua50 in the configure script. 18:16:15 *** Muxy [~Benoit@smtp.bdelalande.net] has joined #openttd 18:17:00 <fjb> It is even more stupid. It finds out that it needs lualib, but then fails with: 18:17:04 <fjb> configure:5099: gcc -o conftest -g -O2 -I/usr/local/include/lua50 -L/usr/local/l 18:17:05 <fjb> ib/lua50 conftest.c -llualib -lm -ldl -llua >&5 18:17:07 <fjb> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -ldl 18:18:07 <fjb> So it apperently found the nedded llualib, but fails at -ldl, but complains about not finding lualib. 18:18:33 <fjb> But what is dl? Stupid script. 18:19:03 <petern> dl is for dynamic linking 18:19:10 <petern> you appear to have a linux-centric program :p 18:20:35 <fjb> Verry Linux centric. :-( There is only another version for Windows with mingw 18:21:05 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@147.251.215.232] has joined #openttd 18:21:08 <fjb> So I have to find the -ldl thing in the configure script and delete that string. 18:24:01 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B83134.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:24:14 <fjb> That stupid dl thing was the problem. Thanks for your help, especially petern 18:25:06 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@82.139.240.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:27:02 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B83C1F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:27:04 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 18:27:37 *** Muxy [~Benoit@smtp.bdelalande.net] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.5 : http://kopete.kde.org] 18:27:52 <fjb> The script lets you set the path to and name of wx-config, but later on hardcodes it... 18:28:40 *** Muxy [~Benoit@smtp.bdelalande.net] has joined #openttd 18:31:00 *** Muxy [~Benoit@smtp.bdelalande.net] has quit [] 18:33:46 *** Muxy [~Benoit@smtp.bdelalande.net] has joined #openttd 18:34:09 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@g228077098.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 18:34:17 *** Muxy [~Benoit@smtp.bdelalande.net] has quit [] 18:34:30 <Belugas> loving it... there is no component that does what i need... so i've got to do it on my own 18:34:31 <Belugas> pffff 18:34:40 <Belugas> YEAH for GUIs!!! 18:35:34 <Sacro> our uni called "X Windowing system" a GUI :( 18:35:39 <MapperOG> You're talking about what right now? 18:38:48 *** mortal` is now known as mortal 18:39:01 <Zuu> I guess Belugas is talking about delphi but I could be wrong. 18:41:27 *** Zahl [~Zahl@e179207205.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:41:27 *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl 18:41:37 <fjb> Happy programming day. I love function name overloading in C++... :-( 18:42:15 * Zuu wish he was programming, but he is putting powerpoint slides into a recorded lecuture 18:43:10 <Sacro> Belugas: what ar eyou after? 18:43:14 <Belugas> Zuu is so right... 18:43:45 <Zuu> Belugas: On delphi or wish for programming? ;) 18:45:26 <Zuu> Now I have not looked on the jedi-project very much, but given that your delphi experience is longer than mine I guess you have tried that path. 18:47:49 <fjb> What does the following try to tell me? 18:47:52 <fjb> mainframe.cpp:93: error: conversion from `const char[4]' to `const wxString' is ambiguous 18:47:54 <fjb> /usr/local/include/wx-2.8/wx/string.h:693: note: candidates are: wxString::wxString(wxChar, size_t) <near match> 18:47:55 <fjb> /usr/local/include/wx-2.8/wx/string.h:682: note: wxString::wxString(int) <near match> 18:48:43 <fjb> Both have the same name and now the compiler can not decide which one is more wrong? 18:49:19 *** Dr_Jekyll [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0D611.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: http://www.lagerwiki.de - das Wiki rund um's Thema Lager und Logistik] 18:49:48 *** fonso [~fonso@brln-d9bacaef.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:56:45 <fjb> I bet they never compiles that piece of code before releasing it. 18:59:00 <glx> fjb: that's why explicit casts are a good thing 18:59:10 <Belugas> Zuu, on Delphi. I'm doing a face lift on our old app. Hell... 18:59:46 <fjb> glx: And why overloading is not always helpful... 19:00:13 <glx> it is helpful but you need to be careful with types 19:00:56 <ln> fjb: you're trying to build against wx unicode build, and your mainframe.cpp was not meant for unicode build. 19:01:11 <ln> fjb: surround the string literal with wxT() 19:02:01 <fjb> ln, thank you. That stupid configure script explicitly looked for the unicode version, so I thought that is ok. 19:02:32 <fjb> I found the wxT() thing, they use it sometimes, but not always. 19:03:10 <ln> fjb: in upcoming wx 3.0 the use of wxT() is not required nor recommended anymore, they are using UTF-8 rather than wide characters. 19:03:46 <glx> good change 19:03:53 <ln> yeah 19:03:59 <fjb> It would be much easier if I would understand C++ better... 19:04:09 <glx> openttd uses the same thing 19:04:23 <fjb> How do I convert: m_nutList->SetItem(ix, 4, info->dist_hostname); 19:04:23 <glx> (except for windows API calls) 19:04:57 <fjb> m_nutList->SetItem(ix, 4, wxt(info->dist_hostname)); does not work 19:05:08 <fjb> wxT ofcourse... 19:05:45 <glx> wxT() is for string litterals 19:05:50 <ln> nope, it doesn't, because wxT is a preprocessor macro only, and it just adds something to the begin of what you give to it. 19:06:11 <ln> fjb: wxString(info->dist_hostname, wxConvUTF8) 19:06:35 <fjb> Ah. Thank you. 19:06:47 <glx> explicit cast ;) 19:07:30 <fjb> I don't mind anything as long as I get this compiled and wiorking. 19:08:03 <ln> explicit cast in that point would precisely make it compile and not work. :) 19:11:42 <fjb> m_nutList->SetItem(ix, 4, wxString(info->dist_hostname, wxConvUTF8)); is not compiling :-( 19:12:01 <fjb> mainframe.cpp:204: error: invalid conversion from `u_char*' to `const char*' 19:12:03 <fjb> mainframe.cpp:204: error: initializing argument 1 of `wxString::wxString(const char*, const wxMBConv&, size_t)' 19:12:46 <fjb> I shuld switch to wx without unicode support... 19:13:07 <ln> err.. what's the type of info->dist_hostname? 19:13:16 <ln> u_char*, whatever that is? 19:13:36 <glx> I usually have 4 "versions", unicode (+debug) and ansi (+debug) 19:13:54 <ln> me too. 19:14:26 <ln> fortunately all of those can be compiled into separate dirs, so the source is needed only once. 19:14:56 <fjb> Don't know what it is... I switch to the version vithout unicode... 19:15:20 <glx> and I should update it (still using 2.8.5) 19:16:11 <glx> hmm double the versions (I forgot static/dynamic) 19:16:12 <ln> something odd happens to panels between 2.8.6 and 2.8.8. 19:16:59 <fjb> I'm having 2.8.8 and that stupid source wants 2.8.8. So there should be not that many problems. 19:18:13 <ln> if you have a panel with some controls in a scrolledwindow, in >2.8.6 the panel will briefly "jump" to non-scrolled position when the controls are clicked. i haven't bothered to reproduce this in the samples, though. 19:20:40 <ln> glx: do you use wx for work or for fun, and what platforms? 19:20:54 <glx> for fun and I use wxMSW 19:21:17 <glx> didn't used it recently though 19:22:01 <ln> it's unfortunate how often one has to patch it in order to fix or enhance something. 19:27:18 <ln> ok, who else has been secretly using wxWidgets? 19:35:03 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ff426.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:36:20 *** FR^2 [fr@oscar.frquadrat.de] has joined #openttd 19:36:54 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-111-189.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:38:40 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@resnet649.bournemouth.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:42:11 *** Purno [~Purno@5350931D.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:42:27 *** herojoker [~herojoker@p508894FC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:42:31 <herojoker> hi 19:43:06 <TrueBrain> hello 19:43:07 <MapperOG> hi 19:43:28 <herojoker> how many grid fields of an industry building have to be in the catchment area of a train station to get material from it? 19:44:06 <MapperOG> herojoker: I think just one - but I don't know for sure 19:44:15 <MapperOG> (I also don't know if there's a percentage or something) 19:44:18 <herojoker> currently, when building a station, one sees what a station will accept but now what it 'll get 19:44:49 <Aali> you do in the latest nightlies 19:45:05 <herojoker> so, a list of connected [material providing] industries (before building) would be nice 19:45:32 <Aali> like i said, already done, its just not in any official release yet 19:45:37 <herojoker> ok :) 19:45:54 <herojoker> is it possible to see the catchment area also after building the object? 19:46:41 <Aali> just hold the preview over what you already built :P 19:46:42 *** Roel1982 [~Roel1982@82-169-19-81.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 19:46:46 <Zuu> Aali: nightlies are as official as stable releases, the discussed feature should rather be said that it is not yet in a stable release than "not yet in an official release" 19:46:47 <Roel1982> hi all 19:46:49 *** DJNekkid [~chatzilla@static128-249.adsl.no] has joined #openttd 19:47:06 <Aali> Zuu: sure 19:47:12 <Roel1982> does anyone know at witch port openttd runs in multiplayer? 19:47:20 <Roel1982> when hosting game... 19:47:25 <TrueBrain> @openttd port 19:47:25 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound) 19:48:37 <petern> which 19:48:45 <Roel1982> tnx dorpsgek 19:48:45 <herojoker> Aali: i don't understand "hold the preview over ..." :( how do i do that? 19:48:54 <herojoker> (i'm a complete TT newbie) 19:50:24 <Aali> herojoker: preview = the outline you get under the mouse pointer when you're building something 19:51:12 <herojoker> oh ok... 19:51:41 <herojoker> i would have expected to be able to see the catchment area without calling the construction menu ^^ 19:52:19 <herojoker> furthermore it would be nice if all catchment areas would be shown when building a new station 19:52:31 <Belugas> they are 19:52:43 <Belugas> just click on the button allowing it 19:53:30 <Aali> well you'll only get the catchment area of whatever you're building 19:54:00 <Aali> would be nice if you could see the entire stations catchment area 19:54:07 <Belugas> indeed, that's when you are realy needing it... 19:54:33 <herojoker> Aali: that's what i meant :) 19:55:17 <Aali> it would also be great if you could see which industries are actually covered by the catchment area, not just a list of cargo types 19:55:39 <herojoker> yep 19:56:04 <Aali> sure, you can work it out yourself with existing tools, but its tedious 19:56:15 <herojoker> or the reverse: for each industry a list of connected stations 19:58:19 <herojoker> arg, the game is a bit too fast for me... i get so many messages ^^ 19:58:24 <Belugas> strange...just looking around, i can easily find all connected industries to a statuon... 19:58:33 <Belugas> or vice-versa :S 19:59:28 <Aali> Belugas: i guess it depends on how complex your stations are 19:59:45 <Belugas> true 19:59:53 <herojoker> Belugas: as a list/text or just visually? 20:00:01 <Belugas> visually 20:00:08 <herojoker> XD 20:00:48 <Aali> i usually play with the distant join patch, not so i can actually join distant stations, i just want to be able to build stations next to each other 20:01:17 <glx> ctrl build 20:01:49 <herojoker> mmh, wasn't there a grf which allows raising/lowering land with streets and rails on it? 20:02:04 <herojoker> or do you think that's a cheat? ^^ 20:02:09 <glx> a grf can't do that 20:02:12 <Aali> glx: thats in trunk now? 20:02:24 <herojoker> glx: oh, ok 20:03:01 <glx> Aali: "adjacent station" is in trunk (dunno for 0.6.x) 20:03:16 <Aali> i did not now that 20:03:39 <Aali> *know 20:05:18 *** mikl [~mikl@4003ds5-vbr.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:08:22 <Aali> but hey, thats cool, saves you the hassle of using waypoints just to keep your passenger trains away from freight platforms 20:11:59 <herojoker> mmh, my train always immedeately leaves the depot :( 20:12:05 <herojoker> but it has no orders 20:12:13 <TrueBrain> don't start it yet 20:13:23 <TrueBrain> so don't start it yet! 20:14:28 <herojoker> ok, just realized that there seems to be a difference between setting the depot as a destination and using the depot button 20:14:46 <herojoker> it also had cargo 20:14:52 <Aali> indeed 20:15:24 <Aali> depot orders cannot make a train stop in the depot 20:15:34 <Aali> (without the right patch) 20:16:27 <herojoker> cool, first time driving with full cargo wagons -> loco broke in the middle of the tour 20:16:42 <herojoker> is there a button like "go to last view"? 20:17:10 <herojoker> so e.g. when i accidently click on a news and it brings me to a completely other point on the map, i'd like to return directly 20:18:37 <petern> hmm, asterisk on debian/lenny doesn't half have a lot of dependencies :o 20:18:55 <fjb> Ahhhhhhh, I hate wx... 20:19:11 <TrueBrain> fjb: then don't bother us with it :p 20:19:19 <Belugas> herojoker, look in Message History 20:19:48 <Belugas> button left to the big red ? in main toolbar 20:19:49 *** Sacro_ [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 20:20:05 <herojoker> yep, all messages are there... 20:20:36 <glx> Belugas: that wasnt his question ;) 20:20:43 <Belugas> ho? 20:20:47 <Belugas> ok... /e ducks 20:21:27 <glx> herojoker: there's no way to return where you were 20:21:47 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:21:49 <glx> but it's funnier when you were building a track or landscaping 20:21:54 <Belugas> haaa... ok.. that... 20:22:23 <herojoker> ok :/ 20:24:05 <herojoker> why is setting up the schedule not possible in pause mode? (but building vehicles and modifying schedule points is) 20:24:46 <Belugas> note that it's easy to compensate. whenever you are about to check obn something that could potentially transport you far from where you are, jsut create an extra viewport 20:25:48 <Belugas> then, just "Paste From Viewport" and you're back 20:25:58 <herojoker> ok :D 20:26:53 <herojoker> oh man, my native language is german but the english version seems much more understandable.. 20:27:02 <Bjarni> lol 20:27:19 <Bjarni> I thought the German translation were one of the good ones :s 20:28:07 <herojoker> the meaning of Paste from/Copy to viewport is clear, but Aus/In Zusatzansicht is just bad... 20:28:45 <DJNekkid> is CB33 supported in Openttd? 20:30:08 <herojoker> but overall the german translation seems ok :) 20:30:15 <glx> DJNekkid: it is 20:30:40 <Belugas> DJNekkid : http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/NewGRF_Support 20:31:27 <petern> it is? 20:31:32 <Belugas> maybe not up to date,but quite close to it 20:32:19 <herojoker> is there a way to rotate the view? 20:32:22 <petern> oh, yes 20:32:30 <petern> i was thinking of the ambient sound callback 20:32:31 <glx> herojoker: no 20:32:44 <Belugas> yes it is, petern :) You wrote it ;) 20:32:45 <herojoker> ok, then i'll use the transparency settings :) 20:32:52 <glx> because there's only 1 view for each buildings 20:33:08 <petern> yeah, i was thinking of 144. 20:33:17 <glx> 144 is not supported :) 20:33:26 <petern> jesus 20:33:41 * Belugas wonders which grf features the 144 cb... 20:33:58 * glx wonders the same 20:34:07 <Belugas> :) 20:34:38 <petern> installing the package "asterisk" on lenny wants to install a full compiler environment, tons of dev libraries, odbc stuff... and kernel driver source 20:34:42 <petern> which is bloody stupid :( 20:34:50 <Belugas> let's modify the nightly, and as soon as a grf tries to set it up, make it crash with a big red box showing the grf file name ^_^ 20:34:52 <herojoker> is it possible to reorder the orders? 20:34:57 <petern> i'd compile it myself but i'd only have to install a full compiler environment to do that... 20:35:14 * Bjarni wonders if the text in the viewport window should be changed to make it more clear 20:35:37 * Belugas wonders if it's not too early to go home 20:35:55 <DJNekkid> then i find it wierd why my CB33 wont work ... and it's even doublechecked with DaleStan :) 20:35:59 <Bjarni> if you read the Danish translation, then it looks like the meaning of the buttons is switched 20:36:17 *** Aylomen [~a@DSL01.83.171.155.188.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:36:41 <Belugas> DJNekkid, the best way to know if your grf is fine, is to make it run on TTDP 20:37:18 <DJNekkid> well, the entire grf is made for Open with out-of-range vehicle IDs... 20:37:48 <herojoker> hey cool, just noticed that in windowed mode the resolution is not fixed :D 20:38:00 <Bjarni> I have known that for ages :) 20:38:06 <Bjarni> but yeah, it's really nice 20:38:12 <Belugas> DJNekkid: extract the noisy part and make one compatible with ttdp, i gues it would not take you too long 20:38:24 <Bjarni> I don't think the window size have ever been fixed 20:38:26 <DJNekkid> true enough :) 20:38:37 <Zuu> Belugas: Did you take a look on my patch some week ago? Or did my warnings scare you to much? ;) 20:38:47 <Belugas> her... 20:38:47 <Zuu> (the widget focus patch) 20:38:49 <Belugas> honestly? 20:38:55 <Belugas> i forgot it all 20:38:57 <Belugas> completleyl 20:39:06 <SpComb> that's what she said 20:39:11 <Belugas> i'm having a hell of a workload at work 20:39:18 <Zuu> Ok, I've made two updates since I talked to you about it. 20:39:25 <herojoker> mmh, are trains self repairing? 20:39:27 <Belugas> ok 20:39:32 <Zuu> Ok, that is just fine. I've been bussy the last week too... 20:39:45 <Bjarni> herojoker: that depends on what you mean by self repairing 20:40:01 <Bjarni> if they break down, then yes they will move on their own after a while 20:40:07 <herojoker> ok 20:40:08 <Belugas> Zuu: thing is, i've got ono clue when i'll be free again, even at home. 20:40:12 *** FR^2 [fr@oscar.frquadrat.de] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by caffein depletion...] 20:40:35 <Belugas> and i have quite a few projects for Open that need to be finished... :S 20:40:45 <Bjarni> looks like I share a problem with Belugas then :( 20:40:47 <herojoker> hmm, i really need 2 screens... 20:41:12 <Belugas> i guess, Bjarni. 20:41:28 <Bjarni> Belugas: do you know any solution to that kind of problem? 20:41:28 <Belugas> herojoker, i do, and it rocks :) 20:41:28 <Zuu> Belugas: Ok, might bug someone else, through that will probably be not this week. 20:41:35 <Zuu> though* 20:42:12 <herojoker> Belugas: is it possible to let OTTD use both? 20:42:16 <Bjarni> <herojoker> hmm, i really need 2 screens... <-- if you have two screens, then you can make the window really wide to cover both monitors :D 20:42:18 <Belugas> Zuu : there are at least two people you can "bug" about that, but i doubt they like to be bugged either way :) 20:42:29 <Zuu> hehe :p 20:42:35 <Belugas> Bjarni, apart not been involved in coding, no 20:42:50 <Belugas> herojoker, try and yoyu will see 20:43:00 <Zuu> Guess nobody really like to get buged.. 20:43:12 <Belugas> Zuu, no, not really 20:43:29 <Zuu> Coding on your own stuff is much more fun :D 20:43:31 <herojoker> Belugas: ok, shall i setup an amazon wishlist, so that you can buy me the screen? ^^ 20:43:34 <Belugas> and now, i'm bugging home 20:43:40 <Bjarni> Zuu: ensure that your bug... err patch is really for committing and that it have been tested real good 20:43:50 <Bjarni> also ensure that it has the correct amount of comments 20:43:59 <Bjarni> and apply to coding style and so on 20:44:09 <Bjarni> then it might be a bit easier to make people look at it 20:44:24 <Zuu> Bjarni: Yea, I've been looking over the comments. but there can always be more work to it. 20:44:28 <Bjarni> but there is no easy way to ensure it though :/ 20:44:37 <Belugas> Bjarni, i trust Zuu for that. He is doing some good stuff, very innovative, should I add :) 20:44:38 <Sacro_> BJARNI! 20:44:44 * Belugas is gone 20:44:53 <herojoker> hmm, rounded curves are missing :( 20:45:15 <Bjarni> good... Belugas just confirmed my impression of Zuu. Now all you have to do is to live up to that impression :) 20:45:27 <Zuu> Bjarni: Hehe 20:45:28 <Belugas> herojoker, if your playing locomotion yes, but you are playing openttd. no rounded curvs in here 20:45:34 * Belugas is really gone now! 20:45:51 <Aali> maybe he's talking about roads 20:46:14 <herojoker> Belugas: never played that ^^ 20:46:20 <herojoker> have you played simutrans? 20:47:26 <Bjarni> I tried it once 20:47:32 <Bjarni> it has some nice features 20:47:56 <Bjarni> it's like a collection of nice features that somehow fails to work together to produce a nice game 20:48:05 <Bjarni> I think the biggest problem is the user interface 20:48:21 <ln> the things are too small 20:48:50 <Bjarni> ln: please put your pants on again and stop talking about it 20:49:49 *** fonso [~fonso@brln-d9bacaef.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.7 : http://kopete.kde.org] 20:49:59 <herojoker> do you know a simulation which uses more realistic proportions? the 'cities' in TT/simutrans are so small... 20:50:14 <herojoker> and quite near to each other 20:50:38 <Aali> cities in TT don't have to be small 20:50:49 <Aali> thats just the map generators fault 20:51:29 <Aali> it tries to make playable maps, not realistic ones :P 20:51:44 <petern> right, i figured out how to make apt ignore Recommends 20:51:53 <herojoker> :) i know, that's why i've asked for another app 20:52:09 <herojoker> i was just wondering whether such sims exist 20:53:00 <herojoker> has it been estimated how big a block would be in reality? (in meters^2) 20:54:53 <Aali> you mean a tile? 20:55:01 <Bjarni> I think so 20:55:22 <herojoker> yes, tile 20:55:29 <Bjarni> but if we make it that realistic then a tile would have to be rather small if it only allows one railroad track 20:55:47 <Bjarni> meaning certain stuff like ships would be rather big 20:55:55 <herojoker> that's right 20:55:59 <Zuu> Bjarni: I'll make a list of things that I think are most questionable in the design of the patch so the person who will review it can start looking there. 20:56:01 <Bjarni> and fill way too many tiles 20:56:25 <herojoker> in such games i usually see those graphics only as represenations 20:56:44 <Bjarni> Zuu: good idea. A well written description of the intended purpose would also be nice ;) 20:57:04 <Bjarni> herojoker: and that's the way you should think about it 20:57:28 *** Wezz6400_ [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 20:57:37 <Zuu> I think some of the purpose is written in the flyspray, but indeed it become culettered after many replies etc. 20:57:49 <herojoker> again, i was just wondering whether there actually is a sim (available to the public) where you can build 500km long tracks :) 20:57:52 *** Wezz6400_ [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [] 20:57:57 <herojoker> (with realistic sizes) 20:58:38 <Wolf01> 'night 20:58:45 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host213-160-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 20:59:21 <Zuu> A small guide of what have been done could probably also help. Since reading a patch file from top down is not always the best way to understand what it does. 20:59:56 <Bjarni> herojoker: MS train sim might be able to handle that if your computer is powerful enough 21:00:31 <ln> Rail Simulator is something newer, from the people who made MSTS. 21:00:48 <Bjarni> oh right 21:01:04 <Bjarni> the question is which one can handle the longest track 21:01:22 <Bjarni> I don't know if trainz is any good at this either 21:05:08 *** Yeggstry [~mind@cpc1-rdng14-0-0-cust946.winn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:07:49 *** Yeggstry [~mind@cpc1-rdng14-0-0-cust946.winn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 21:07:58 <Bjarni> actually I wonder why such a length would be important 21:08:20 <Bjarni> I'm perfectly happy with distances below 50 km 21:08:31 <ln> as irl 21:08:38 <Bjarni> yeah 21:09:19 <Bjarni> it allows you to be able to learn the tracks 21:09:25 <Bjarni> like every curve and hill 21:10:07 <ln> the famous hills of denmark 21:10:51 <Bjarni> actually we have quite a number of them 21:11:00 <Bjarni> on the cheaply built railroads 21:11:18 <DJNekkid> lol ... "the daily double" (horse trotting or something) did turn on the TV ... a horse did have the name "nice bender" 21:11:29 <Bjarni> :D 21:11:51 <Bjarni> our hills is like up, down, up, level, up, down.... you get the idea 21:13:06 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:14:00 <herojoker> Bjarni: such lengths would be important for a realistic post transportation system 21:14:58 <herojoker> e.g. if i wanted to simulate the whole post transportation network of germany 21:15:21 <herojoker> but that's not a game anymore ^^ 21:16:26 *** MapperOG [~MapperOG@p57B2FD90.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:17:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... i have an anomaly in my music database 21:17:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> most of the LotR soundtrack pieces have a playcount between 30 and 50 21:17:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> but one has a playcount of 600 21:17:51 *** Sacro_ is now known as Sacro 21:18:02 <Zuu> herojoker: Why not get into transportation work field instead of simulating it. Or well the fist does not exclude the later... :) 21:18:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> which makes it the 3rd most played in my current playlist 21:18:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> after a piece with 1600 and one with 800 21:19:07 <ln> and the one is The bridge of Khazad'dum. 21:19:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, actually not 21:19:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's Forth Eorlingas 21:19:29 <ln> damn, my palantÃr is broken then. 21:19:30 <Zuu> Since simulation is a heavily used tool in traffic enginering for example. 21:21:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's Khazad-dûm btw 21:21:19 <herojoker> Zuu: yes, that's an option :) i'm currently studying mathematics (subsidiary subject: computer science), so perhaps it'll be even possible for me to be active in this field :) 21:21:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> you can have almost any job with that kind of degree ;) 21:22:17 <Zuu> mathematics is a good entry point. A friend took mathematics first before she moved to the traffic enginering program I am taking. 21:22:47 <herojoker> i'm now starting my master studies in bonn :) 21:22:53 <Zuu> The traffic models can become quite complex, so good understanding is of good use. 21:23:04 *** Volley [~worf@84-119-54-39.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:23:16 <Zuu> good understanding of math* 21:23:22 <ln> Eddi|zuHause2: oh, yes. and the Babylon 5 author Scrazynzskjdfksjd cleverly named the one dangerous place "Za'ha'dum". 21:23:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have never watched the full series... 21:24:32 <herojoker> i heard it's quite good 21:24:44 <ln> it's okayish, but not as good as people say. 21:24:49 <Zuu> herojoker: You've got a bachlor first? (I will only get a master, no bachlor since they just recently changed the organization and I only have two year left to my degree, if I take everything on time ;) ) 21:24:58 <ln> and it copies many details from LotR. 21:25:21 <herojoker> Zuu: yes, i'm currently finishing my bachelor thesis 21:26:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> hey... i have like... -2 years left if i take everything on time :p 21:26:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> "Regelstudienzeit ist ÃŒberbewertet" 21:26:31 <herojoker> *g* 21:26:45 *** Roel1982 [~Roel1982@82-169-19-81.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] 21:27:29 <herojoker> unfortunately bafög support is bound to it, Eddi 21:28:25 <Zuu> Our "master" used to be 4,5 year without a bachlor half way degree. But is changing to the bachlor + master system of 5 years in total as used in most other countries. 21:28:43 <Zuu> (in Europe at least) 21:29:14 *** Chrill [~chrischri@c80-216-96-107.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 21:29:47 <herojoker> now that i live in a dormitory i realize that listening to music loudly is a luxury 21:29:52 <herojoker> :( 21:30:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> herojoker: there are worse problems than bafög... like some idiots actually decided on studying fees for everybody who is more than 2 years overdue 21:31:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> my bafög was like 10⬠in the end ;) 21:31:18 <herojoker> especially because in orchestral pieces i also want to here the rearmost string... 21:31:21 <herojoker> eddi: :-( 21:31:24 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]] 21:31:38 *** mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: [FATAL] Client error: Memory leak - More RAM needed. More! More! More!] 21:32:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> it was more in the beginning, but when siblings finish studying your bafög goes down because the base income of your parents gets divided by less siblings 21:33:21 <herojoker> oh, i won't have this problem ^^ 21:36:47 <herojoker> but instead of this i have other problems caused by bureaucracy... mmh, hungry now (wow, we're really OT) 21:37:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> example: parent's income boils down to 600⬠"spare" for supporting students, 3 siblings are to be considered, so each one gets a share of 200â¬, bafög limit is 350â¬, so each sibling gets 350â¬-200⬠= 150â¬. now one sibling finishes studying, so the 600⬠get divided by two, so now the two siblings get 350â¬-300â¬=50⬠bafög. so instead of 3*150â¬=450⬠the family only gets 2*50â¬=100⬠support 21:37:56 <Sacro> wtf 21:38:01 <herojoker> hehe 21:38:18 <herojoker> (i was saying that to Sacro) 21:38:19 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: YOU BROKE MY TERMINAL D: 21:38:31 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Eddi|zuHause2 broke my terminal D:] 21:38:43 <herojoker> Eddi: there is elternunabhÀngiges bafög 21:38:53 *** ben_ [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 21:39:00 *** ben_ is now known as Sacro 21:39:06 <Sacro> bah 21:39:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> herojoker: you only get that if you lived alone for 3 years before studying 21:39:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> Sacro: â¬â¬? 21:39:30 <herojoker> oh ok 21:40:25 *** Zorni [zorn@e177231027.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 21:41:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> the system is really broken in that aspect... the divisor should be the total number of children, not the number of children eligible for bafög 21:41:16 <Sacro> wtf 21:41:19 <Sacro> oh, no utf8 21:41:35 <glx> Sacro: ö ? 21:41:42 <herojoker> À 21:41:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> Å 21:41:51 <herojoker> :) 21:41:59 <glx> herojoker: your client failed 21:42:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> Å 21:42:07 <Sacro> yay 21:42:09 <Sacro> fix'd it 21:42:20 <Sacro> £ 21:42:21 <Sacro> yay 21:42:22 <glx> ã°ã 21:42:23 <herojoker> c'mon, that's not a good test 21:42:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> damn, i need new ways to break Sacro's terminal 21:42:29 <herojoker> ? 21:42:38 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 21:42:41 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.231.53] has quit [Quit: ecke] 21:43:02 <herojoker> mmh, my client can't display that... 21:43:03 <Zuu> Eddi|zuHause2: What language is "bafög", tried with both german and whatever the language of the nederlands is called in english in google translate. 21:43:14 <herojoker> Zuu: german 21:43:17 <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: it's an abbreviation 21:43:18 *** Frostregen_ [~sucks@dslb-084-058-167-164.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 21:43:32 <Zuu> Eddi|zuHause: Ok, what does it stand for? 21:43:37 <herojoker> Zuu: Bundesausbildungsförderungsgesetz 21:43:59 <glx> herojoker: write in utf8 please 21:44:07 <Eddi|zuHause> %BB%Bundes %BA%Busbildungs%Bfö%Brderungs %BG%Besetz 21:44:11 <Eddi|zuHause> bÀh 21:44:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Bundes Ausbildungsförderungs Gesetz 21:45:09 <herojoker> mmh, do you know a good irc client which is also free? 21:45:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i use Konversation 21:45:35 <Zuu> herojoker: Xchat 21:45:37 <glx> I use KVIrc 21:45:43 <herojoker> i'm currently bound to winxp 21:45:54 <Zuu> Depending on the amonut of freeness you need if you are on windows. 21:45:54 <glx> I'm on winXP too 21:45:56 <herojoker> Zuu: ok, i'll try that 21:46:08 <Eddi|zuHause> they are working on a windows/kde4 version currently, i believe 21:46:47 <herojoker> oh wait wiki says: btw, do you know 21:46:51 <herojoker> erm 21:46:52 <herojoker> oops 21:46:59 <herojoker> Proprietary for Windows version 21:47:13 <herojoker> As of August 23, 2004, the official Windows build of XChat has become shareware, and must be purchased for USD 21:47:18 <glx> there are free xchat builds for windows 21:47:22 *** Pikita [~sam@89.241.171.50] has joined #openttd 21:47:30 <Zuu> herojoker: But since the source is GPL there are free xchat builds for windows as glx said. 21:47:37 *** Zorn [zorn@e177229039.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:47:46 <Zuu> puting xchat + windows in google gave me this: http://www.silverex.org/features/ 21:48:35 <herojoker> though i'm not using google, i've also just found the silverex build :-) 21:48:57 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-148-036.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:48:58 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen 21:51:16 <herojoker> oh no, xchat is not available for AmigaOS ;-) 21:52:48 <herojoker> i will now Use Dish with Microwave ^^ 21:53:53 <Sacro> love silverex 21:53:57 <Sacro> though using irssi atm 21:55:47 <Eddi|zuHause> "you solved this sudoku in 986 minutes and 38 seconds" 21:55:58 <SmatZ> huh 21:57:20 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i started it this morning before i went to work, and i couldn't finish it in time :p 21:57:33 <SmatZ> :() 21:59:05 <Zuu> Night guys 21:59:08 *** Zuu [~Zuu@c-143c71d5.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:03:48 <Bjarni> <herojoker> i'm currently bound to winxp <--- somebody showed me his laptop today. He upgraded to XP (from vista) and he said "now it's able to execute all apps and it's way faster" 22:04:02 <Bjarni> so you could do worse than XP 22:04:10 <herojoker> hehe 22:04:12 <Bjarni> but you could do better too 22:04:23 <herojoker> imo xp is the best windows version yet 22:04:57 <fjb> Network stack of Vista is faster than the one of xp. 22:05:20 <glx> unzipping a file is way slower on vista 22:05:37 <Tefad> herojoker: you need at least SP2 to say that 22:05:47 <Bjarni> the network stack isn't important if you can tell the speed difference in explorer right away 22:06:36 <Tefad> if i ever use windows as a desktop OS again, i will not be using the standard shell. 22:06:45 <herojoker> yep, i'm using sp2 (i'm always postponing sp3 installation...) 22:07:01 <Bjarni> I have XP... it's just not on the default boot partition :) 22:07:02 <herojoker> Tefad: which one would you use? 22:07:10 <Tefad> the one that doesn't suck 22:07:23 <Ammler> that spam on paste.openttd.org is a good anonymizer 22:07:25 <Bjarni> basically it's for whenever I need to execute something windows only 22:07:50 <Tefad> in linux i can boot into a graphical environment and consume less than 40MB RAM 22:07:54 <herojoker> :-) 22:07:58 <Bjarni> nice 22:08:09 <Tefad> i think vista sucks 200MB just booting. 22:08:17 <herojoker> actually i want to use gentoo... 22:08:19 <Tefad> then another 200MB for your office app preload and virus scanner. 22:08:20 <Bjarni> that is if it's usable 22:08:43 <herojoker> but i started with a 64bit install, but then saw that it's not usable yet ^^ 22:08:53 <Tefad> what? i'm in 64bit gentoo right now 22:09:02 <Tefad> my friend has 64bit gentoo laptop 22:09:09 <herojoker> my wlan card wasn't supported at that time 22:09:12 <Tefad> with silly 3d window manager 22:09:28 <Tefad> neither is his. he has to use ndiswrapper with a vista driver 22:09:53 <herojoker> i also tried that, but there was no 64bit driver 22:09:57 <herojoker> for no os 22:10:04 <Tefad> i see. fun! 22:10:13 <Tefad> he was lucky to find the vista driver 22:10:52 <herojoker> yeah, just forgot to make that clear *before* starting to install gentoo... 22:11:10 <Bjarni> 64bit is totally overrated 22:11:15 <herojoker> (started with lan but had to switch to wlan) 22:11:17 <Eddi|zuHause> <Tefad> in linux i can boot into a graphical environment and consume less than 40MB RAM <- well, that's after many hours of custom crafting... i'm not sure if that is really worth the effort 22:11:26 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 22:11:26 <Tefad> CUSTOM CRAFTING?! bahaha 22:11:38 <Tefad> that's my standard start up : ) 22:11:52 <herojoker> arch linux? 22:11:55 <Tefad> gentoo 22:11:56 <herojoker> :D 22:12:19 <Eddi|zuHause> well, my standard suse installation had a noticeable speedup when i upgraded from 512MB to 1GB of RAM 22:12:30 <herojoker> is there a C version of portage now? 22:12:35 <Aali> wait a minute, the only requirement here is a graphical environment? 22:12:49 <Tefad> Aali: uh, preferably X11 22:12:50 <Aali> you could do that with 16mb or less 22:13:06 <Tefad> yes, i could.. but then i wouldn't have a decent video driver 22:13:15 <Tefad> i think nvidia's is at least 8MB 22:13:19 <Tefad> giant blob. 22:13:22 <Aali> maybe 22:13:29 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5DFF2.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:13:42 <Tefad> and i typically run a few bash instances as a meg a pop 22:14:03 <Eddi|zuHause> sure, some memory optimising is good, but there is a balance where the effort cancels out the gain 22:14:05 <Bjarni> The Amiga 500 did ok for a graphical environment with only 512k of memory 22:14:37 <Aali> Bjarni: but it didn't run linux 22:14:40 <Eddi|zuHause> imho, usability weighs much more than a small memory footprint 22:14:49 <Bjarni> yeah 22:14:51 <herojoker> Tefad: have the C-based boot scripts established now? 22:14:53 <Bjarni> so 40 mb sounds nice 22:14:59 <Tefad> herojoker: don't know 22:15:18 <Sacro> Bjarni: i'm getting my A500 here tommorow 22:15:32 <fjb> Hey, my strange C++ thing is running. Thanks to all who helped. 22:15:32 <Bjarni> why? 22:15:34 <herojoker> iirc that was on the plan for the new baselayout 22:15:41 <Bjarni> wanna try porting OpenTTD to it? 22:15:45 <herojoker> :D 22:15:47 <ln> Bjarni: what have you found out about ethernet? 22:16:05 <Bjarni> it can transfer data 22:16:17 <fjb> I have an Amiga 1000. :-) 22:16:24 <Sacro> Bjarni: aye, can do 22:16:26 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: Caught sigterm, terminating...] 22:16:37 <Bjarni> and you can transmit 1 Gbit/sec in full duplex even when the cable only claims to be able to handle 100 Mb/s :D 22:16:38 <herojoker> i had a cdtv 22:16:51 <Tefad> what cable? 22:17:32 <herojoker> and many cracked games on floppy disks... 22:17:37 <Tefad> cat5 is enough for short runs of gige 22:17:39 <Eddi|zuHause> max speed depends on the cable quality, and cable length 22:19:59 <herojoker> isn't the category number summarizing that? 22:21:22 *** herojoker is now known as herojoker_ 22:21:55 *** herojoker [~herojoker@p508894FC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 22:22:02 *** herojoker_ [~herojoker@p508894FC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 22:23:21 <herojoker> i'm now using xchat (o.O the title bar says YChat) 22:23:30 *** [com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has quit [Quit: Operator, give me an exit] 22:24:18 <Tefad> the 'standard' length for ethernet on copper is 100m (~300ft) 22:24:56 <Tefad> 10M can deal with cat3, 100M wants cat5, 1G wants cat5e, 10G wants cat6a 22:25:05 <Eddi|zuHause> my longest cable is 20m, i believe 22:25:24 *** Yeggstry is now known as Yeggzzz 22:25:25 <Tefad> i think that's how it works. 1G can run on regular cat5 for 30m, likewise with 10G on regular cat6 22:25:30 *** Yeggzzz [~mind@cpc1-rdng14-0-0-cust946.winn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:25:39 <Tefad> i think for very short distances 10G will run on cat5e 22:26:02 <ln> Bjarni: is there even such thing as 1 Gbit half duplex? no? 22:26:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure there is, but who is insane enough to enable that? :p 22:27:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean, where do you get all those carrier pidgeons from? :p 22:27:39 *** herojoker [~herojoker@p508894FC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:27:59 <SmatZ> maybe there is, but most ethernet cards don't support that 22:28:10 *** herojoker [~herojoker@p508894FE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 22:28:12 <herojoker> re 22:28:49 <Eddi|zuHause> brain function reset by beer? 22:29:20 <SmatZ> :-) 22:31:11 *** herojoker [~herojoker@p508894FE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 22:31:33 *** herojoker [~herojoker@p508894FE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 22:31:41 <herojoker> now xchat should be configured properly :) 22:40:35 *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@80.101.115.82] has quit [Quit: http://www.interplay.com/] 22:51:38 *** herojoker [~herojoker@p508894FE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:52:18 *** herojoker [~herojoker@p508894FE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 22:52:21 <herojoker> oops 22:53:44 *** herojoker [~herojoker@p508894FE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:53:56 *** herojoker [~herojoker@p508894FC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 22:54:14 <herojoker> damn, silverex crashes when minimizing to tray :( 22:54:34 <Eddi|zuHause> that's... unfortunate :p 22:55:34 *** Chrill [~chrischri@c80-216-96-107.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [] 22:58:44 <herojoker> i'm just reading about Autoreplace ^ 22:58:46 <herojoker> ^^ 23:03:18 <herojoker> good night 23:03:25 *** herojoker [~herojoker@p508894FC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:07:15 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g228077098.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: (~_~]"] 23:14:17 <Bjarni> <ln> Bjarni: is there even such thing as 1 Gbit half duplex? no? <-- if I recall correctly, there is support for it in IEEE. However I have yet to see 1 Gbit hardware that lacks support for full duplex 23:14:33 *** grumbel [~grumbel@i577AC7E1.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 23:53:51 *** welshdragon [~vista@adsl-83-100-138-245.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:59:11 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]