Config
Log for #openttd on 13th October 2008:
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00:57:07  <pseudoprometheus> *ahem*
00:57:18  <pseudoprometheus> So yes, how is everyone?
00:57:21  * pseudoprometheus looks around.
01:07:24  <Sacro|Laptop> Yeah, alright thanks, you?
01:52:13  * Belugas yawns
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03:27:01  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14461 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Document: add some doxygen comments (Albert)
03:41:00  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14462 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: replace magic number with already existing constant (Albert)
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08:31:14  <boekabart> Question. When I 'svn up', I get: svn: Repository moved permanently to 'https://secure.openttd.org/svn/'; please relocate
08:31:32  <boekabart> but svn info tells me i'm already there: URL: https://secure.openttd.org/svn/trunk
08:35:07  *** fonso [~fonso@e178124208.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
08:39:35  <boekabart> (unfortunately, I can't access svn using svn:// or http:// from here)
08:48:39  <petern> "works for me"
08:50:08  * boekabart switched to hg
08:50:15  <boekabart> "works for me" :P
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09:13:49  <Pikka> orudgesan
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09:29:48  <fjb> Hello
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10:24:17  <Tim> Morning
10:24:51  <Brianetta> http://www.netgoth.org.uk/gallery/index-troopers.php
10:24:55  <Brianetta> Find me!
10:25:01  <Brianetta> Aren't they all so cute?
10:25:52  <Tim> A quick question: Is there a way to store the .cfg-file and the savegames, scenarios and graphic-files somewhere else than either the game-directory or "Eigene Dateien" (My Data), or however it is called in English?
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10:28:51  <Tim> ups ;)
10:28:58  <Tim> someone answered already? ;)
10:29:03  <planetmaker> no
10:29:08  <planetmaker> hello Tim :)
10:29:46  <planetmaker> You can store those files either centrally in ~/Eigene Datein or relative to the OpenTTD directory.
10:30:13  <Tim> Hey pm
10:30:25  <Tim> No chance to store them somewhere where i'd like them to?
10:30:59  <planetmaker> Well... you _can_ save them anywhere. But a cfg won't be used in a place elsehwere unless specifically specified via command line parameter.
10:31:08  <planetmaker> You can load save games from anywhere.
10:31:34  <planetmaker> The cfg in the relative path to OpenTTD takes precedence over the global cfg file
10:31:53  <planetmaker> (afaik, didn't really test for long time :) )
10:32:05  <Tim> Well, but if i put the openttd folder anywhere but in the game directory or under eigene dateien it just tells me sample.cat etc. missing
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10:33:44  <Brianetta> Tim: If you compile from source you can tell the configure script to use another directory.
10:34:01  <Brianetta> That's where the location is hard-coded in.
10:34:20  <Tim> Hm... But compiling each version i want to play would get hard ;)
10:34:31  <Brianetta> As far as I'm aware, there's no way to specify it using the environment.
10:34:39  <Brianetta> You can specify the location of a config file on the command line
10:35:43  <roboboy> Brianetta: did you report that bug I encountered on your server of the game not geting unpaused for on my first connect about two games ago on your server?
10:35:57  <Brianetta> I did not.
10:36:01  <Tim> Couldn't something like: If the game can't find the .cfg, the sample.cat, graphic files or whatsoever, it will ask you for the directory where it is in?`;)
10:36:09  <Tim> ...be implemented? ;)
10:36:15  <Brianetta> You could suggest it.
10:36:25  <Tim> Just did that :D
10:36:34  <Brianetta> Myself, I'd prefer being able to override it with an environment variable.
10:36:48  <Brianetta> I don' tthink such a suggestion as yours would ever be implemented.
10:37:19  <roboboy> just wondering as when I connected to your last game for the first time it wouldnt un pause
10:37:19  <Brianetta> Just like any piece of software, it expects to be installed in a workable state before you run it.
10:37:44  <Brianetta> roboboy: It might be something to do with the "start game paused" option
10:37:51  <Brianetta> I haven't even looked into it.
10:38:15  <roboboy> didnt someone else report it on your server though
10:38:24  <Brianetta> I don't know.
10:39:30  <roboboy> pause_on_newgame = false in my cfg
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10:40:15  <roboboy> and I have pause_on_join = true under network
10:40:58  <Brianetta> Sounds lovely.
10:41:33  <Doorslammer> davidx123 is a berk
10:41:45  <Doorslammer> Carry on
10:41:56  <Brianetta> There's a word I haven't seen for a while.
10:42:09  <Doorslammer> Berk :P
10:42:40  <Doorslammer> That's because Ben Elton lives up the road from me and doesnt write socialist comedies anymore :(
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10:45:49  <roboboy> gnight
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10:49:02  <planetmaker> [12:32]	<Tim>	Well, but if i put the openttd folder anywhere but in the game directory or under eigene dateien it just tells me sample.cat etc. missing <-- There should be a folder like ~/Eigene Dateien/OpenTTD/data
10:49:24  <planetmaker> That's where you need to put sample.cat and all grf, be that the original and all newgrf.
10:49:56  <planetmaker> Path may vary slightly - I don't play OpenTTD on windows :)
10:50:05  <boekabart> planetmaker: Tim left
10:50:15  <planetmaker> oh... right :P
10:50:37  <planetmaker> I tend to forget that people not necessarily connect via bouncer and have a history to check the past :)
10:51:28  <Brianetta> I never use bouncers.
10:51:38  <roboboy> same
10:51:45  <roboboy> well gnight
10:51:47  <planetmaker> well... many people don't, I know... :)
10:51:48  <Brianetta> Makes people talk to you when you're not there.  I like to discourage that.
10:51:51  <planetmaker> night roboboy
10:52:15  <Brianetta> If I don't discourage it, people start to think I care about what they have to say.
10:52:22  <planetmaker> :D
10:54:29  <FauxFaux> Brianetta: People get the hang of the fact that you don't reply pretty quickly. Unless they're teenage old girls. >.<
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10:56:11  <Brianetta> Sometimes I don't reply simply because I'm bored with the person doing the talking.
10:56:28  <Brianetta> I still manage to get this reputation for being nice, and helpful.
10:56:38  <Brianetta> I really must do something about that.
10:58:25  <Ammler> Brianetta: doesn't your client show the "away" flag?
10:58:47  <Brianetta> Ammler: Sure it does.  People still talk at me, assuming I'll "read up" later.
10:59:13  <Ammler> well, I use the bouncer, because of my wifi
10:59:20  <Brianetta> /away No I don't read my logs.
10:59:38  <Ammler> else, I have around 10 d/c per day
11:00:22  <Brianetta> I'm using a tunnel.  IRC sits minimised for the most part, with me checking by.  When it's time to go home, I quit and reconnect at home (from the same apparentl IP).
11:00:27  <Ammler> and people can't see where I am... (office/mobile/home)
11:01:33  <Ammler> well, that looks like "pseudo" bouncer
11:01:42  <Brianetta> eh?
11:01:53  <Ammler> many use IRC from a server over ssh.
11:01:54  <Brianetta> It does no bouncing at all
11:02:07  <Ammler> but same effect.
11:02:12  <Brianetta> Hardly.
11:02:22  <Brianetta> If I pull the plug on this PC, I will ping out on IRC.
11:02:31  <Brianetta> The client is local, on this machine.
11:02:52  <Brianetta> The tunnel is simply to defeat a firewall.
11:03:37  <Brianetta> Additionally, once I get home, I have *no access at all* to anything logged while I was at work
11:03:43  <Brianetta> if I even have logging enabled.
11:05:36  <Ammler> that is one of reasons _for_ bouncer
11:06:09  <Ammler> if I join, the bouncer serves me with a backlog
11:07:15  <Ammler> that is helpful, if you disconnect for some minutes because of IP change etc.
11:07:37  <Brianetta> Not helpful.
11:07:47  <Brianetta> Like I said, I don't care what people have to say, in general.
11:08:02  <Brianetta> If it was important, they'll usually fill me in.
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12:26:39  <murray> hi - ÊÞå - are you recieving non-ascii chars ok ?
12:28:13  <Doorslammer> *silence*
12:28:26  <Doorslammer> Would love to tell you, but give us money first ;)
12:29:10  <murray> :p
12:29:37  <ln> i am reEIving your non-ascii chars ok.
12:29:43  <ln> d'ogh
12:29:50  <ln> recEIving
12:30:17  <murray> hehe ok, thanks
12:30:21  <murray> will try to remember that :p
12:30:52  <MapperOG> how can I delete signals?
12:31:15  <Doorslammer> In better have got our cash first
12:31:30  <planetmaker> MapperOG: select signal build tool, then press r
12:31:44  <planetmaker> then klick on signals you want to delete.
12:31:56  <planetmaker> generally: use the remove tool (not dynamite, but bulldozer)
12:37:55  <MapperOG> thanks
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12:45:53  <Celestar> petern: got a sec?
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13:01:20  <Andrew> Hi everyone
13:01:24  *** Andrew is now known as Pawz
13:02:05  <Pawz> Anyone by chance know whether it's normal for maps to take a very long time to download when you try join a server?
13:02:17  <Brianetta> yes
13:02:25  <Brianetta> if the map is large, the download is large.
13:02:42  <Pawz> 733 kb is large?
13:03:01  <Brianetta> Yes.  My average saved game size is 0.5MB.
13:03:08  <Brianetta> http://ppcis.org/standard/savedgames.cgi
13:03:35  <Pawz> ok interesting. I just found this game today y'see :)
13:03:49  <Brianetta> My server is quick, because it's in a data centre with 100mbps both ways.
13:04:03  <Brianetta> Many OpenTTD servers are hosted on domestic ADSL or similar
13:04:09  <Brianetta> with limited upload speeds
13:04:18  <Brianetta> uploading 700k can take ages.
13:04:21  <Pawz> Yeah I've tried connecting to a couple but they just sit there trying to download
13:04:36  <Pawz> what's your server?
13:04:45  <Brianetta> See that site I pasted
13:05:27  <dih> hehe - uplink speed detauls would be nice in the server list :-P
13:05:34  <dih> *details
13:05:48  <Celestar> heh. Porsche got it right again. Demonstrated a electric version of the 911. > 200 HP, 0-100km/h in < 7 sec, and, most importantly, over 300km electric range.
13:06:05  <Brianetta> I bet it sounds like KITT, too.
13:06:07  <planetmaker> Celestar: got a link? :D
13:06:21  <planetmaker> hello, btw :)
13:06:22  <dih> Celestar: got the money to buy me one?
13:06:23  <Celestar> http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/news/auto_-_produkte/hxcms_article_516140_13987.hbs <= one is here.
13:06:28  <dih> i'd prefer that over a link
13:06:32  <Celestar> dih: yes but I'm not giving it to you :P
13:06:36  <Celestar> J/K
13:06:52  <planetmaker> thx
13:06:53  <dih> so you will give it to me?
13:06:57  <dih> :-P
13:07:06  <Celestar> planetmaker: I had a a better one somewhere, but I can't locate at the moment
13:07:16  <planetmaker> no worries :)
13:07:26  <Celestar> it's incredible how light these electric motors are meanwhile
13:07:50  <Celestar> you'll be hard pressed to find a 91kg ICE with 150kW
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13:09:46  <Brianetta> Adhesion wouldn't be much at 91 kilos
13:10:31  <Celestar> it's the engine only :P
13:10:55  <Celestar> Brianetta: how do you brits have managed to increase the passenger count on your railways that dramatically within the past 10 years?
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13:11:39  <Celestar> better service? higher speeds? lower prices? ...
13:11:47  <Brianetta> Celestar: "privatisation"
13:12:00  <Celestar> well. it apparently works
13:12:15  <Brianetta> Trains are overcrowded and the fares are sky high.
13:12:36  <Brianetta> I think that the frankly amazing increases in petrol prices are more to do with it.
13:12:46  <Celestar> well, only for 2006-2008.
13:12:51  <planetmaker> Celestar: but it's still difficulty to find an electric energy storage with the same energry density as fuel oil :)
13:12:52  <Celestar> not for the period before that.
13:12:59  <Celestar> planetmaker: it's not needed (=
13:13:08  <Pawz> barg.. Brianetta, is there somewhere I can get ALL the grfs for your server
13:13:12  <planetmaker> eh, no?
13:13:12  <Celestar> planetmaker: you only need about 1/5th of the density
13:13:14  <Brianetta> Pawz: Yes.
13:13:17  <Pawz> without wandering through 15+ websites?
13:13:18  <planetmaker> why?
13:13:21  <Brianetta> Yes.
13:13:43  <Celestar> planetmaker: because the efficiency of the electric car is about 3-5times higher than that of an ICE-based car
13:13:49  <Pawz> oh
13:13:52  <Pawz> *facepalm*
13:13:58  <Pawz> bottom links perhaps eh
13:13:59  <Celestar> Brianetta: I've just found this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e8/GBR_rail_passenegers_by_year.gif
13:13:59  <Brianetta> (-:
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13:14:16  <planetmaker> An ICE should have something like 30 ... 40 % or so.
13:14:26  <Celestar> planetmaker: heh. yes. at peak power output.
13:14:28  <planetmaker> Electrical maybe 90% ... 95%.
13:14:36  <Pawz> anyone know where to find an explanation on how the advanced train signals work?
13:14:37  <Brianetta> 1960-1980 was a result of the Beeching Axe
13:15:01  <planetmaker> Pawz: did you look in the OpenTTD wiki for path signals?
13:15:09  <Celestar> planetmaker: ICEs quickly drop below 25% or even 20% when in partial load (i.e. constant speed driving at non-maximum speeds)
13:15:13  <Brianetta> Now why would anybody look for that?
13:15:42  <planetmaker> Celestar: true...
13:15:54  <Celestar> planetmaker: plus you lose all the kinetic energy when braking. Unless you drive a modern BMW, there you only lose part of it (=
13:15:58  <planetmaker> Brianetta: ?
13:16:18  <Brianetta> Celestar: Or a Prius...
13:16:23  <planetmaker> Celestar: hehe. I think Prius...
13:16:36  <Brianetta> Toyota++
13:16:58  <Celestar> yeah. but that's 1) not purely ICE and 2) a POS when you have 70%+ of highway driving.
13:17:13  <Brianetta> div/0 error
13:17:28  <Brianetta> I don't drive.  I'd only consider a Prius at the moment if I did.
13:17:46  <Brianetta> It's the closest thing to a car that drives itself.
13:17:50  <Celestar> and a decent diesel car doesn't consume more fuel than a Prius.
13:18:08  <Brianetta> I'd really like a Prius with a Wankel
13:18:20  <Celestar> Wankels are not really efficient these days :(
13:18:28  <Brianetta> Mazda RX8 has a Wankel - not a bad performer at all for a 1.3l engine.
13:18:38  <Celestar> Brianetta: speaking of engines. Are there still any deltics in service?
13:18:47  <Brianetta> Celestar: Only in preservation.
13:18:55  <Brianetta> A couple have mainline certificates.
13:19:11  <Celestar> you got any idea why this idea wasn't pursued?
13:19:22  <Brianetta> They're not cheap to build or run.
13:19:25  <Celestar> efficiency? cost? maintenance?
13:19:33  <Brianetta> COmpared to the HST they were rubbish.
13:19:52  <Brianetta> They cost a lot to build, and more to maintain.
13:20:06  <Brianetta> Their only real benefit was the redundant power supply and the high speed.
13:20:13  <Celestar> heh.
13:20:15  <Brianetta> The class 43 had both in spades.
13:20:32  <Celestar> but it's an ingenious design for an ICE :)
13:21:55  <Celestar> it's SCARY how little of the german rail network is electrified
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13:22:43  <Brianetta> Now we have the HST and the Bombardier Voyager, the Deltic looks poor.
13:22:54  <Brianetta> From an operational perspective, not a passenger one.
13:23:06  <Celestar> how loud were they?
13:23:09  <Brianetta> They're both faster, cheaper to run, cheaper to maintain.
13:23:20  <Brianetta> Deltics were not as loud as an HST
13:23:39  <Brianetta> but they did sound like two triplets of motorbikes tied together.
13:23:47  <Celestar> heh
13:24:04  <Celestar> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Napier_Deltic_Motor.jpg
13:24:05  <Celestar> heh
13:24:24  <Brianetta> There are some ships with those engines.
13:24:37  <Brianetta> Every time one gets scrapped, the Deltic preservation groups are all over it.
13:24:42  <Doorslammer> Navy ships
13:24:47  <Brianetta> "Can we get the engine?  Is the engine any good?"
13:25:12  <Doorslammer> Normally the answer is 'Is it bollocks...'
13:25:42  <Brianetta> Probably better than the one remaining serviceable one in the loco.
13:25:59  <Brianetta> Most Deltics are down to one half now.
13:26:10  <Doorslammer> They still get pretty shagged out but
13:26:37  <Doorslammer> A trio of screw blowers would have been a mighty thing to have had on them
13:26:37  <Brianetta> They're a source of spares.
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13:26:44  <Doorslammer> 5000bhp+ perhaps?
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13:34:49  <MapperOG> Is it possible to chat only with other specators (in a multiplayer game)
13:35:00  <Brianetta> It might be
13:35:10  <Brianetta> You can certainly speak to a specific other spectator
13:35:56  <Brianetta> unfortunately, speaking to team 255 using the say_player command in the console gives an error about the player number not being betwee 1 and 8
13:36:14  <Brianetta> which is, I think, a tad arbitrary.
13:38:17  <yorick> something with speak to company
13:38:57  <yorick> and possibly something with ctrl-enter?
13:39:43  <Brianetta> say_player is the command to send a message to a company
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13:40:21  <yorick> yes, it only works from gui
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14:22:18  <dih> @seen TrueBrain
14:22:19  <DorpsGek> dih: TrueBrain was last seen in #openttd 3 days, 3 hours, 13 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <TrueBrain> enjoy
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14:51:26  <d-mike> hi ALL
14:51:31  <d-mike> ups
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14:58:55  <A_Person> Grah, I wish it were possible o make trees stop growing ins cenario editor :C
15:00:49  <A_Person> Hmm, and there's no build while paused in editor either, lol
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15:08:07  <MapperOG> I just bought an CPU player, now I think he did some unlogical track placing... but is it really worth removing and rebuilding tracks or should I just leave it?
15:08:35  <A_Person> don't you get a portion of the money back when removing tracks?
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15:08:51  <A_Person> You could leave diagonal tracks for blocking town growth tho
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15:17:03  <A_Person> Hmm, it would be nice if all cities placed or generated with the city growing as grid feature would all be on the same grid (depending on first city placed maybe
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15:20:23  <A_Person> Hmm, and an autoroad for building a road web with the predefined city block size
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15:22:09  <MapperOG> hm..  sometimes I've depots which cant be connected with the road - what's the deal with them?
15:24:06  <A_Person> build the road manually?
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15:24:16  <glx> vehicle on the road when you built depot?
15:24:20  <A_Person> maybe the depot is facing off a sloap
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15:24:31  <A_Person> slope*
15:27:34  <MapperOG> glx: hm.. that might be
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17:02:04  <Wolf01> hello
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17:32:46  <MOG> crash == bad press?!
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17:50:31  <jakub_> hi all
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