Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:11 * Belugas just gave a test run on OpenGfx 00:00:22 <Belugas> one comment : why is it so dark?? 00:00:43 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody could ever properly answer that question... 00:00:43 <Belugas> another comment : hell of a job been done! 00:00:47 <ln> we are living dark times 00:01:04 <Belugas> ln, not in OpenTTD. and this is stupid 00:02:00 <Eddi|zuHause> ln: well, that is one explanation... others involved people in foreign countries, or foreign people in germany, asking for something that could mean direction to the station 00:02:45 <Eddi|zuHause> basically, any time, someone asks something that you can't understand, you give him direction to the staion, as that's the most likely place he would get what he wants 00:08:00 <ln> this nerd guy in prison break is damn annoying. 00:08:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i have not actually watched prison break 00:08:44 <ben_goodger> no doubt 00:08:54 *** welshdragon [~vista@adsl-83-100-138-245.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:09:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i once recorded season 1, but i somehow lost it... 00:09:08 <ben_goodger> can anyone advise me about pan-european value added tax law? :P 00:09:15 *** welshdragon [~vista@adsl-83-100-138-245.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 00:09:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Mehrwertsteuer... 00:09:50 <welshdragon> whoops... crashed xchat :( 00:09:54 *** mortal` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:10:19 <Eddi|zuHause> in germany, it is illegal to give legal advise if you are not a certified lawyer 00:11:04 <ln> Eddi|zuHause: so you can't say "you should call the police" when someone breaks your neighbor's windows? 00:11:27 <Eddi|zuHause> ln: that's not legal advise 00:11:43 <eMJay> Belugas: I gave it a shot just now, the colours are very saturated I think 00:11:46 <ben_goodger> well, I don't want actual legal advice 00:11:53 <eMJay> Belugas: OpenGFX that is 00:12:24 <ben_goodger> my accountants are stumped, however :( 00:12:50 <ln> Eddi|zuHause: oreally. :) hm, but is that like ... if you do give legal advice, the one you adviced can sue you, or the bundesrepublik can sue you? 00:13:17 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:13:23 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, something like that... 00:13:36 <eMJay> ln: I would assume that the one you gave advice could sue you 00:13:40 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 00:14:19 <Eddi|zuHause> eMJay: not only that, also someone witnessing that action can sue, or call the police... 00:14:30 <ben_goodger> oh dear. 00:16:26 <ln> i don't know the legal terms in english, but there are basically two kinds of crimes over here; ones where the victim has to actively do something to get the suspect sued (such as theft), and ones where the government will sue the criminal regardless of what the victim wants (e.g. murder) 00:16:46 <ben_goodger> ah 00:16:53 <ben_goodger> suing isn't related to crime here 00:16:54 <ln> errr.. murder is not a particularly good example of *what the victim wants* 00:16:58 <eMJay> when you say "sue" do you mean "prosecute"? 00:17:02 <ben_goodger> things you sue for are called torts 00:17:10 <ln> actually yes, i probably mean "prosecute". 00:17:14 <ben_goodger> yes 00:17:23 <ben_goodger> I have no idea what our terms for those are 00:17:56 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it's actually not much different from other laws, like you have to be a certified plumber to fix the plumbing 00:18:27 <Eddi|zuHause> or at least be employed by or employ one 00:18:38 <ben_goodger> ...but does it actually criminalise it or just make you liable for it? 00:19:20 <ben_goodger> you can be sued for giving faulty advice here [liability], but you can be fined for giving driving instruction for money without a license [crime] 00:19:27 <eMJay> In OpenTTD related discussion, what does sample.cat contain? 00:19:41 <ln> some sounds, i suppose. 00:19:48 <Eddi|zuHause> eMJay: the sound effects 00:19:49 <ln> even all the sounds. 00:20:03 <Eddi|zuHause> like the train whistle and stuff 00:20:26 <eMJay> is that it? 00:20:37 <Eddi|zuHause> do you want it to be more? 00:20:53 <eMJay> no, just wanted to be sure 00:21:09 <ben_goodger> right. 00:21:18 <Eddi|zuHause> left. 00:21:34 <eMJay> so sample.cat contains the sounds for [open]ttd 00:21:51 <ben_goodger> actually, the opposite of that usage of "right" is "I don't understand" 00:22:34 <Eddi|zuHause> you can safely assume that i used the "wrong" usage on purpose :p 00:22:51 <ln> Bjarni: sover du redan? 00:23:02 <ben_goodger> very well, carry on 00:23:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Bjarni is sober? since when? 00:23:47 <Eddi|zuHause> or do you mean "saufen", which is kind of the opposite? :p 00:24:06 <ln> Eddi|zuHause: ich meine "sova = schlafen" 00:31:13 *** Digitalfox [~Digitalfo@bl10-221-19.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 00:32:47 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77297.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 00:33:06 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B771F5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:33:17 <ln> wkz 00:33:42 *** thingwath [~thingwath@morana.sks2.muni.cz] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 00:33:48 <Eddi|zuHause> no german would ever say that :p 00:34:37 <Eddi|zuHause> in the best case, they would say "webÀÀ" :p 00:37:55 <ben_goodger> good morning 00:38:01 *** thingwath [~thingwath@morana.sks2.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 00:38:07 *** ben_goodger [~ben@host81-153-25-139.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:38:53 <ln> earth to Bjarni, over 00:42:09 <ln> now let's see, the international openttd meeting yet to be arranged, isn't it? 00:42:41 <Sacro> Yeah 00:42:45 <Sacro> lets have it in England 00:42:48 <Sacro> like the tt-meets 00:43:03 <ln> Sacro: but Bjarni doesn't travel to England. 00:43:19 <Sacro> even better! 00:43:45 <ln> well, england's fine for me. 00:44:08 <eMJay> where about? 00:44:32 <ln> buckingham palace. 00:44:55 <Sacro> aye, why not 00:46:11 <Bjarni> <ln> Bjarni: will you arrange an international openttd meeting in copenhagen? <-- no. I wouldn't know where it could be placed 00:46:41 <Bjarni> there are some ok places it could be, but they all cost money :( 00:47:42 <Bjarni> to be honest I wouldn't know there to host such a thing 00:47:51 * Sacro wants to go 00:47:57 * Sacro offers the use of his living room 00:48:02 <Bjarni> maybe in the train repair shop... it's big enough 00:48:13 <Bjarni> but it lacks both computers and an internet connection 00:48:16 <Sacro> I'll even buy biscuits 00:48:23 <ln> who needs computers and internet connection 00:48:29 <eMJay> Is there any use of strings or templates in openttd? 00:48:31 <Sacro> we have wifi here 00:48:33 <Sacro> eMJay: yes 00:48:42 <Sacro> you can't really output without strings 00:49:01 <Bjarni> then what is the meeting about? 00:49:04 <eMJay> i mean string as in the class, not char* 00:49:10 <ln> Bjarni: will you travel to england or germanyland for such a meeting? 00:49:29 <Bjarni> I'm not convinced I would walk to the house next door yet 00:49:33 <ln> Bjarni: it's about meeting the people behind those nicks. 00:49:40 <Bjarni> since I haven't got a clue to what you are trying to do 00:49:50 <Sacro> Bjarni: rape 00:49:52 <Sacro> *coughs* 00:49:56 <Sacro> tea and cakes ven 00:49:59 <Sacro> *even 00:50:10 <Bjarni> I know what Sacro intends to do 00:50:34 <Bjarni> I don't think I'm willing to leave the country 00:50:35 <Sacro> Bjarni: lots of cuddles 00:50:42 <Bjarni> at least not at the moment 00:50:45 <Bjarni> I have stuff to do 00:51:14 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80489.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:51:37 <ln> Bjarni: surely you have time to leave the country for 2 or 3 days. 00:52:02 <Bjarni> when would that be? 00:52:30 <ln> dunno. Q1/Q2 next year, or so. 00:52:43 <Bjarni> hmm 00:52:50 <Bjarni> I don't know 00:53:01 <Bjarni> but at least I can't this year 00:53:13 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B83AC5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 00:53:16 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 00:57:04 <ln> let's meet at Tron's front yard but let's not tell him in advance. 00:57:06 <eMJay> Ok, so are there any generics/templates in use in openttd? 00:57:21 <eMJay> like vector or hashmap or something? 00:57:35 <Bjarni> ln: while it could be cool to do, I would prefer to survive 00:57:42 <Sacro> eMJay: look at YAPF 00:58:02 <Bjarni> and in order to survive, I need sleep 00:58:04 <Bjarni> goodnight 00:58:05 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a46ad5.virnxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:58:27 <Sacro> ln: what is "what time is it" in french? 00:58:35 <Sacro> Qu'elle uhr est ille" 00:58:38 <Sacro> sounds right 00:58:45 <Sacro> but I'm sure uhr is german 00:58:52 <ln> sounds a mixture of german and french 00:59:27 <ln> well, doesn't matter, probably the correc question is pronounced the same way in any case. 01:01:45 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-39-240.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:05:08 <ln> Sacro: 01:05:10 <ln> Quelle heure est-il? 01:05:39 <Sacro> ah yes :) 01:05:40 *** Zorn [zorn@e177232000.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:05:42 <ln> feel free to adjust spelling to what seems best. 01:05:51 <Sacro> Oh I do :) 01:06:03 <Sacro> 273 6/1/44 60 Clerk instructed to write to the Commanding Officer of the U.S. Forces stationed in the village drawing attention to the excessive speed with which the coloured troops drove and failure to comply to traffic signals. 01:14:25 *** fjb_ [~frank@p5485BCDB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:15:50 *** [alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 01:15:50 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:15:53 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster 01:16:11 *** apo_ [~apo@pD9E7DB24.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:18:56 <welshdragon> http://fantasticcontraption.com/ - number 8 - how am i meant to make it go higher? 01:18:59 *** fjb [~frank@p5485C016.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:19:05 <Sacro> fail 01:20:10 <welshdragon> you do it then 01:20:37 <welshdragon> bloody impossible to build a machine, once you've done it, post a screenie 01:23:09 *** apo [~apo@pD9E7DB24.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:29:45 * Sacro watches Woof on youtube 01:40:05 * welshdragon goes to sleep 01:45:07 <eMJay> welshdragon: I finished higher 01:55:50 <Sacro> Heh 01:55:55 <Sacro> 6pt font ftw :D 01:59:22 *** TrueBrain [truebrain@openttd.org] has quit [Server closed connection] 02:03:20 *** TrueBrain [truebrain@openttd.org] has joined #openttd 02:13:17 *** Phoenix_the_II [rdeboom@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:17:41 *** [alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 02:17:41 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:17:43 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster 02:17:48 *** Aali [~aali@84-217-27-145.tn.glocalnet.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 02:18:01 *** Aali [~aali@84-217-27-145.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #openttd 02:25:11 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:37:00 <Belugas> eMJay, i don't know if it's the color saturation, but yes, it's darkish 02:37:52 <NukeBuster> you are still able to turn trains while the game is paused... 02:38:02 <NukeBuster> is that intended? 02:39:42 *** DJGummikuh [~joey@ip3057.saw.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Server closed connection] 02:39:44 *** DJGummikuh [~joey@ip3057.saw.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #openttd 02:39:56 <Belugas> i think so. why not? 02:40:12 <NukeBuster> wouldn't that lead to desyncs when one does that while a new player is joining? 02:41:56 <Belugas> i don't know 02:41:59 <Belugas> but i doubt 02:42:19 <NukeBuster> if you'd turn it on the right moment... would that matter for the game? 02:42:21 <Belugas> i think (correct if i'm wrong) that commands are still passed 02:42:29 <Belugas> try it, you will see :) 02:42:36 <NukeBuster> also to the incoming client? 02:42:51 <NukeBuster> next time someone joins i'll turn a train around 02:44:13 <NukeBuster> probably easy to fix? 02:48:20 <Belugas> truely, i have no clue. 02:48:30 <Belugas> i'm not in networking logic 02:48:51 <Belugas> but, to say if it's easy to fix, one has to prove that it is broken ;) 02:49:48 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@resnet726.bournemouth.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:52:05 <glx> IIRC commands are queued during the download 02:53:35 <Belugas> mmh... true... i think i remember that 02:58:20 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-26-69-27.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 02:59:43 *** [alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 02:59:59 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:59:59 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster 03:03:15 <Belugas> and if it takes too long, the game cannot empty the queue fast enough and you're rejected 03:03:18 <Belugas> or something like that 03:07:46 <eMJay> NukeBuster: I think you would have to be damn fast... 03:16:12 *** bleepy [bleepy@5ad4568a.bb.sky.com] has quit [Server closed connection] 03:16:20 *** bleepy [bleepy@5ad4568a.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 03:19:51 *** Mark [~M4rk@5ED06875.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Server closed connection] 03:20:22 *** Mark [~M4rk@5ED06875.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 03:20:24 *** Mark is now known as M4rk 03:20:26 *** M4rk is now known as Mark 03:22:24 *** [alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 03:22:24 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:22:27 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster 03:52:54 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:03:27 *** [alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 04:03:27 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:03:30 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster 04:03:43 *** Dr_Jekyll [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0F132.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: http://www.lagerwiki.de - das Wiki rund um's Thema Lager und Logistik] 04:05:54 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 04:30:17 *** TrueBrain [truebrain@openttd.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:32:38 *** TrueBrain [truebrain@openttd.org] has joined #openttd 04:45:36 *** [alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 04:45:36 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:45:39 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster 04:45:43 <eMJay> hmmmm, I hope my boss doesn't mind me trawling through the openttd code instead of coding for him all day :P 04:48:33 <Brianetta> he might 04:50:05 <eMJay> unfortunately, if he knew, he probably would mind 04:52:57 <eMJay> hmmmm 04:53:16 <eMJay> segmentation fault is when I try to access memory that isn't allocated to my program right? 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07:55:38 <dih> e.g. list_patches, patch <setting> [<value>] 07:55:53 <dih> list_settings and set <setting> [<value>] 07:56:25 <dih> kinda some consistency missing in that place :-D 07:58:34 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-26-69-27.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 08:01:02 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@129.187.69.65] has joined #openttd 08:01:04 *** mode/#openttd [+o Celestar] by ChanServ 08:02:10 <Celestar> morning 08:04:03 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat3.arachne.cz] has joined #openttd 08:05:58 * Celestar can't help but notice that his 2.5" external USB driver manages to choke the 16-disk Fibre-Channel RAID6 array of his fileserver. 08:06:02 <Celestar> s/driver/drive 08:40:15 <SpComb> choke? 08:40:55 <Gekz> slow it down unbearably I'd imagine 08:41:17 <Celestar> aye 08:43:05 <Gekz> it'd be like 08:43:11 <Gekz> I CAN TRANSFER AT THE SPEED OF LIGHT 08:43:19 <Gekz> and the USB is like "Slow down, I'm old" 08:43:45 <Eddi|zuHause> "'n alter Mann ist doch kein D-Zug" 09:10:28 <Eddi|zuHause> why the hell, when i search in google for "newgraphicsspecs", i get any page, except the newgraphicsspecs wiki page? 09:16:15 <Celestar> :P 09:16:38 <Celestar> Gekz: the thing is, it's the other way round. the USB drive is fast, the RAID seems slow 09:22:25 *** fjb_ is now known as fjb 09:27:41 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 09:37:51 *** NukeBuster|laptop [~opera@145.89.204.180] has joined #openttd 09:38:19 <NukeBuster|laptop> What information do you need for debugging a desync error? 09:38:36 <NukeBuster|laptop> At least a save, what else? 09:40:03 <Eddi|zuHause> desync errors are the most evil to debug, as it is necessary for server and clients to join at different times 09:40:24 <Eddi|zuHause> so complete instructions to reproduce are a must 09:40:44 <NukeBuster|laptop> dih's nightly server is currently constantly desynching 09:40:49 <NukeBuster|laptop> got a save game already 09:40:58 <NukeBuster|laptop> and when you join instant desync 09:41:08 <Eddi|zuHause> like "start the server, let the game run for exactly 10 days, then start the client, wait for exactly 1 day, and you see a desync" 09:41:26 <NukeBuster|laptop> hmm should try that with the save when I'm home... 09:41:29 <Eddi|zuHause> joining a running server will not help 09:41:49 <NukeBuster|laptop> you need to compare debug data? 09:41:50 <Eddi|zuHause> you need to reproduce it by starting a new server, and then desyncing 09:42:11 <NukeBuster|laptop> loading a game won't work? 09:42:47 <Eddi|zuHause> loading a game can work, but you have to let the server run without client until the desync reason occurs 09:43:31 <Celestar> NukeBuster|laptop: with or withouth cargodest? 09:44:14 <Celestar> NukeBuster|laptop: there's quite some information on the wiki on how to debug a desync problem 09:44:48 <Celestar> NukeBuster|laptop: http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/OpenTTDDevBlackBook/Network/Desync_debugging 09:45:02 <NukeBuster|laptop> latest nightly 09:45:12 <NukeBuster|laptop> shouldn't have cargodest 09:45:18 <NukeBuster|laptop> or didn't have it turned on 09:45:30 <Eddi|zuHause> NukeBuster|laptop: the problem is, to debug a desync, you need to restart the server many times over with the same savegame, and the desync must happen always at the same time 09:45:41 <NukeBuster|laptop> nasty 09:45:42 <NukeBuster|laptop> :P 09:46:02 <NukeBuster|laptop> are all actions timestamped? 09:46:36 <NukeBuster|laptop> or tick stamped perhaps? 09:48:55 <Celestar> normally, they're not recorded at all (= 09:49:04 <Celestar> NukeBuster|laptop: the first thing you need to understand is what a desync is 09:50:06 <Celestar> so NukeBuster|laptop , what is a desync? 09:51:59 <NukeBuster|laptop> a desync is a client that does something else then what the server does 09:52:18 <NukeBuster|laptop> some where in time the client took a wrong turn the 09:52:30 <NukeBuster|laptop> minus the 09:53:01 <NukeBuster|laptop> so i thought to compare actions and check for differences 09:54:43 <NukeBuster|laptop> ? 09:54:54 <Celestar> NukeBuster|laptop: a desync is when the random number generator on the client returns a different result than the one on the server. 09:55:16 <Celestar> thus causing the game states to diverge 09:55:50 <NukeBuster|laptop> so the random seeds are usually given out by the server? 09:56:04 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, every 100 ticks or so 09:56:17 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: they're compared every so-and-so ticks 09:56:22 <Celestar> not given out 09:56:25 <NukeBuster|laptop> so in a 100 tick timespan a desync could occur 09:57:00 <Eddi|zuHause> no, the reason for the desync is often very long before the desync actually occurs 09:57:14 <NukeBuster|laptop> what if you would simply rejoin the game on a desync 09:57:14 <Celestar> but can be milliseconds ago. 09:57:25 <NukeBuster|laptop> or would that be annoying? 09:57:25 <Celestar> NukeBuster|laptop: on join, the seeds are exchanged 09:57:43 <Celestar> NukeBuster|laptop: we've opted not to do this, because we'd not get any desync reports then 09:57:55 <Celestar> a desync is a *bug* 09:58:02 <Celestar> which needs to be fixed 09:58:09 <Celestar> rejoining is a workaround, not a solution 09:58:11 <NukeBuster|laptop> yeah thats true 09:58:21 <Eddi|zuHause> many desyncs cannot be resovled by just rejoining the server 09:58:33 <NukeBuster|laptop> lets hope dih saves seperate autosaves :) 09:58:54 <NukeBuster|laptop> its probably due to 1000 trians 09:58:57 <NukeBuster|laptop> trains 09:59:27 <NukeBuster|laptop> and signals every tile 09:59:42 <Celestar> nope 10:00:09 <Celestar> if the client or the server is overwhelmed, that would cause a disconnect 10:00:15 <NukeBuster|laptop> ok 10:00:44 <NukeBuster|laptop> what about the ability to turnaround trains while in pause? 10:00:57 <Celestar> what about it? 10:01:00 <NukeBuster|laptop> there were alot of traffic jams on the server 10:01:03 <NukeBuster|laptop> would that matter 10:01:10 <Celestar> it shouldn't 10:01:25 <Celestar> it shouldn't cause the gamestates to differ 10:01:29 <Eddi|zuHause> "it shouldn't" is why it's a bug ;) 10:01:35 <NukeBuster|laptop> if someone joins and in pause trains turn around because they waited to long for a signal 10:01:35 <Celestar> ;) 10:01:39 <NukeBuster|laptop> and not 1 but alot 10:01:58 <Celestar> then the game states on all clients (and the server) should be identical 10:02:06 <Eddi|zuHause> NukeBuster|laptop: throwing around wild theories won't help debugging 10:02:24 <NukeBuster|laptop> I know, but I just wanted to know if that could lead to a desync 10:02:39 <NukeBuster|laptop> if it happened on join 10:02:47 <Eddi|zuHause> everything could lead to a desync 10:03:13 <Eddi|zuHause> no, desyncs that happen on join are due to the game state not saved properly 10:03:25 <NukeBuster|laptop> ok 10:03:40 <NukeBuster|laptop> and once you have a poisoned server it will remain that way? 10:03:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. the server has some information that is not saved, and when the client loads that savegame, the game state is different 10:04:06 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, until the server itself loads its own savegame 10:04:29 <NukeBuster|laptop> does that happen often? 10:04:36 <NukeBuster|laptop> and could one force that? 10:04:44 <Eddi|zuHause> the server owner can do that 10:04:52 <Celestar> NukeBuster|laptop: the server is never poinsoned per definition. the server is law, all clients must have the same state as the server. 10:05:28 <NukeBuster|laptop> choose the wrong word for it as said the server save was incorrect 10:06:23 <Celestar> the savegame might miss some information, or some cache (i.e. non-saved data that can be reconstructed) is faulty, or marked clean while it isn't. 10:06:45 <Celestar> or: some buffer overflow might have occured overwriting variables 10:07:42 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd 10:08:48 <Gekz> wtf 10:08:50 <Gekz> who kicked me 10:08:52 <Gekz> at some time in the past 10:09:34 <Celestar> better than being kicked in the future :P 10:10:44 <Gekz> that's not true 10:10:51 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you could go back into the past to find your kicker and then kick him yourself :p 10:10:52 <Gekz> Celestar: now I'm superstitious 10:10:53 <Gekz> kick me now 10:11:13 *** Gekz was kicked from #openttd by petern [gekz] 10:11:16 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 10:11:19 *** Gekz was kicked from #openttd by petern [gekz] 10:11:26 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 10:11:26 *** Gekz was kicked from #openttd by petern [gekz] 10:11:36 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 10:11:40 <petern> ok, i'm done 10:11:49 <Celestar> doing what? :P 10:11:56 * Celestar whistles 10:12:21 *** mucht_work [~Martin@143.50.125.24] has joined #openttd 10:48:18 *** fonso [~fonso@e178089243.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 11:02:41 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:07:43 *** apo [~apo@pD9E7C6D3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:11:24 *** murray [murray@2001:470:1f0a:1be::a1c0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:11:29 *** murray [murray@2001:470:1f0a:1be::a1c0] has joined #openttd 11:14:09 *** apo_ [~apo@pD9E7DB24.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:19:39 *** NukeBuster|laptop [~opera@145.89.204.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:22:36 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F999.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:25:09 *** FloSoft [~sifldoer@g229072145.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 11:25:25 <FloSoft> hmm path-based presignals do not work correctly?!? 11:26:56 <Rubidium> there's no concept of path based presignals 11:27:04 <Rubidium> not in the world of OpenTTD at least 11:30:21 <FloSoft> hmm why are they placeable then? 11:30:48 *** Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd 11:32:02 <Rubidium> because they might be useable in some (obscure) situations 11:32:45 <FloSoft> okay? in which situations are they usable? if they dont work? 11:33:15 <Brianetta> FloSoft: Describe the signal you believe to be a path based presignal 11:33:25 <dih> :-P 11:33:38 <Brianetta> we'll then be able to tell you what it actually is. 11:34:06 <Rubidium> FloSoft: a pbs junction followed by a priority merger 11:34:23 <FloSoft> aah okay, the one with the yellow "presignal" sign on it 11:34:33 <Brianetta> How many lights? 11:35:05 <petern> that's probably a one-way pbs signal 11:35:15 <Brianetta> It is if it has three lights 11:35:17 <FloSoft> okay i read the tooltip 11:35:26 <Brianetta> if it has only two, it's a non-path presignal 11:35:27 <FloSoft> its the one way pbs 11:36:17 <FloSoft> its not very intuitive, i thought its a path-based presignal 11:36:27 <FloSoft> because of the yellow sign 11:36:35 <dih> wel - appart of the word 'pre' it's true :-P 11:37:58 *** welshdragon [~vista@adsl-83-100-138-245.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:38:22 *** welshdragon [~vista@adsl-83-100-138-245.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 11:38:33 <dih> yummy - cold coffee 11:38:33 *** grumbel [~grumbel@i577BA5FC.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 11:39:59 <Rubidium> FloSoft: then come up with a better design for the signal ;) 11:42:14 *** Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:42:48 *** Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd 11:49:18 <FloSoft> green sign instead of a yellow one? 11:51:51 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 11:54:59 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 11:55:02 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 11:58:16 <fjb> Use the tooltip, Luke. 11:58:48 <FloSoft> FauxFaux: yea but its not intuitive 11:58:58 <FloSoft> you see yellow sign -> "ah presignal" 12:03:10 <fjb> Be aware of the tab completion. It is the dark side of the IRC. Easy to use but doing odd things. 12:09:51 <dih> :P 12:10:12 <dih> beware - the tab-completion is coming over you! 12:16:01 *** yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 12:17:11 * FauxFaux peers. ¬_¬ 12:17:35 * keyweed_ interconnects 12:17:43 *** grumbel [~grumbel@i577BA5FC.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 12:19:25 <Gekz> tabcomplete words 12:19:27 <Gekz> that's crazy 12:19:29 <Gekz> but exists. 12:20:42 <FauxFaux> I used to MUD a lot, and the clients for that tended to tab complete words; I got rather lazy. ¬_¬ 12:21:20 <Gekz> lol. 12:21:31 <Gekz> no need to spell words anymore 12:21:48 <Gekz> n tab ne tab tab to sp tab tab tab wo tab tab any tab tab 12:22:26 <keyweed_> no nero to splice womanly anyway? 12:23:33 <Brianetta> OpenOffice.org has enter to complete words 12:23:48 <Brianetta> which is so completely brain-dead that I stare at it in horror whenever I use a new install 12:28:13 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: brb, changing some hardware] 12:30:47 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.162.31] has joined #openttd 12:49:20 <dih> Brianetta: do you know erlang? 12:49:24 <dih> www.erlang.org 12:51:04 *** Zahl [~Zahl@e176224152.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 12:54:04 *** Digitalfox [~Digitalfo@bl10-221-19.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:55:51 <Celestar> :S 12:56:19 <Celestar> Description: 4-year on site service. In Stock? No (delivery in 3-4 weeks). 12:56:27 <Celestar> er .. right 12:57:26 <Celestar> on can "service" be in stock? 12:57:28 <Celestar> how* 12:58:25 <glx> printed on paper ;) 12:59:27 <Celestar> yeah and it takes 3-4 weeks to print a form? 13:04:53 <mikegrb> new delivery tech is due to be born in 3-4 weeks 13:17:01 <dih> tÃŒdeldÃŒ 13:20:55 <Brianetta> dih: big nope there. 13:31:51 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 13:32:13 <dih> nice language :-) 13:32:19 <dih> interesting - let me put it that way 13:34:35 <Belugas> no, please, don't! 13:35:03 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 13:42:28 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 13:42:53 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.204.194] has joined #openttd 13:45:03 *** Aylomen [~a@DSL01.83.171.189.9.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has joined #openttd 13:49:19 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.162.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:01:56 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 14:04:42 <fjb> Is the improved time table patch worth a try? 14:06:10 <Celestar> rumor has it that it rocks 14:06:18 <Celestar> maybe Eddi|zuHause can tell you more 14:06:58 <Sacro> Celestar: i doubt it, Eddi|zuHause talks nowt but rubbish :p 14:09:49 *** apo [~apo@pD9E7C6D3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:09:55 <dih> you are in a room with 2 guards and 2 doors, one door leads you to freedom, the other door leads you to the lions. you also know that one of the guards always tells the truth, the other guard always lies - for both facts you know, you do not know which is the door to freedom nor which is the guard that lies... you may ask one guard one question (not each guard) - find your way into freedom :-) 14:10:48 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:11:54 <Celestar> dih: "What would your comrade say if you ask him which door leads to freedom" 14:13:28 <Celestar> add a question mark 14:14:32 *** De_Ghosty [~s@76-10-137-56.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:16:15 *** De_Ghosty [~s@76-10-162-17.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 14:20:09 <Rubidium> now what if everything you "know" is told by the lieing guard? 14:25:29 <yorick> then it will be one lies and one tells the truth instead of one tells the truth and one lies? 14:26:36 <De_Ghosty> you ask them 14:26:47 <De_Ghosty> are you dead? 14:26:51 <De_Ghosty> the liar will say yes 14:26:55 <De_Ghosty> the truth will say no 14:27:05 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:27:10 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A43482.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 14:28:23 <glx> both will point to the other door 14:30:01 *** XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|bnc 14:31:02 <yorick> you can only ask one question ;) 14:31:29 <Celestar> hence you need to ask A a question that involves B 14:31:48 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@e176224152.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 14:31:48 *** Zahl [~Zahl@e176224152.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:31:48 *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl 14:36:19 <dih> trallalla 14:36:48 <Rubidium> pomppieddom 14:37:02 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:39:01 <Celestar> man building paraview is a pita :S 14:39:20 <Celestar> i've started about 5 hours ago 14:40:09 <Celestar> but as it won't build with qt4.4 (requires qt4.3) this involves a qt rebuild as well 14:40:50 <glx> does that mean all other stuff using qt4.4 qill break? 14:40:59 <glx> *will 14:42:12 <Celestar> glx: no, I have QT4.4 installed in /usr and qt4.3 in /usr/local now 14:42:32 <Celestar> and I've got to reboot in a minute because I got a kernel update too 14:43:07 <Celestar> man why do computers in 2008 require more babysitting than 20 years ago :S 14:43:13 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 14:43:41 <keyweed_> more complexity, more possibility for fail 14:45:04 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@129.187.69.65] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:50:21 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14524 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Add: stop-in-depot as part of orders (PhilSophus) 14:50:25 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@129.187.69.65] has joined #openttd 14:50:27 *** mode/#openttd [+o Celestar] by ChanServ 14:50:35 <Celestar> heh 14:50:40 <Celestar> at least the system has survived a kernel update 14:50:45 <Celestar> > uname -a 14:50:47 <Celestar> Linux rivendell 2.6.25.16-0.1-default #1 SMP 2008-08-21 00:34:25 +0200 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux 14:50:54 <Celestar> I wonder how long a version string may be :P 14:51:42 <petern> i686 i686 i386? 14:52:11 <Celestar> machine, processor, hardware platform 14:52:31 <petern> Linux lachesis 2.6.26-1-vserver-686 #1 SMP Wed Sep 10 19:51:11 UTC 2008 i686 GNU/Linux 14:53:11 <Celestar> Linux andromeda 2.6.16.21-0.8-smp #1 SMP Mon Jul 3 18:25:39 UTC 2006 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux 14:53:41 <Rubidium> playing the: who has the most ancient kernel game? 14:54:28 <Celestar> Rubidium: 2.6.16 is the kernel for SLES10 14:54:38 <Celestar> so my server is stuck with that 14:54:59 <Rubidium> "my" VPS is running 2.6.9-023stab046.2-enterprise ;( 14:55:36 <Celestar> can I change the current directory in irssi? 14:56:01 <Celestar> yeah 14:56:11 <Celestar> but not of the underlying shell 14:56:11 <Celestar> br 14:56:12 <Celestar> b 14:56:13 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@129.187.69.65] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:56:19 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@129.187.69.65] has joined #openttd 14:56:20 *** mode/#openttd [+o Celestar] by ChanServ 14:56:30 <Eddi|zuHause> Sysinfo for 'johannes-i': Linux 2.6.25.11-0.1-default running KDE 3.5.9 "release 49.1", CPU: AMD Athlon at 1628 MHz (3260 bogomips), HD: 1762/1784GB, RAM: 996/1010MB, 186 proc's, 7.4d up 14:57:35 * Celestar ponders dumping the output of "hwinfo" into the channel 14:58:41 <Belugas> no, please, don't! 14:59:41 <Eddi|zuHause> yay for r14524 \o/ 15:01:40 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-26-69-27.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 15:02:08 <Celestar> !openttd commit 14524 15:02:16 * Celestar sighs 15:03:11 <Rubidium> Celestar: you NEVER learn, do you? At least in this instance of knowledge gathering you seem to be failing quite badly ;) 15:04:30 <Celestar> yeah 15:04:33 <Celestar> apparently 15:04:34 <Celestar> (= 15:04:39 * Celestar sucks 15:04:40 <Celestar> :P 15:04:47 <Eddi|zuHause> @openttd commit 14524 15:04:48 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Commit by rubidium :: r14524 /trunk/src (6 files in 2 dirs) (2008-10-24 14:49:45 UTC) 15:04:49 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: -Add: stop-in-depot as part of orders (PhilSophus) 15:05:06 <Celestar> Rubidium: hence the "sigh" 15:05:40 <Eddi|zuHause> or you could have just scrolled up two pages, if you didn't kill your client ;) 15:06:07 <NukeBuster> Eddi... I stopped the trains and desyncs stop 15:06:26 <NukeBuster> with the global stop all trains thingy 15:06:43 <Celestar> http://images.auto-motor-und-sport.de/hps/img/hxmedia/mpsams/2008/10/147TSzDb_U4lXYA_450x300.jpg <= heh 15:06:59 <NukeBuster> started the trains again and desyncs are back 15:07:02 <Eddi|zuHause> that only means that the desync reason does not surface anymore, not that it is gone 15:07:25 <Rubidium> Celestar: I like the Top Gear vehicles more ;) 15:07:34 <Celestar> for the police? :P 15:07:40 <Rubidium> yeah ;) 15:07:46 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: looks very... italian... 15:07:49 <Celestar> it only has a range of 400m :P 15:07:52 <NukeBuster> as soon as i start all the trains again within 10 secs desync 15:08:30 <NukeBuster> now to turn on trains 1 by one 15:08:33 <Eddi|zuHause> NukeBuster: then start only single trains until you see a pattern 15:08:41 <NukeBuster> :) 15:08:52 <Rubidium> Celestar: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Jeremy_Clarkson%27s_Top_Gear_Fiat_Police_Car.jpg 15:08:53 <NukeBuster> saved the game first 15:08:53 <Eddi|zuHause> then try to reproduce that pattern in a different server 15:09:25 <Sacro> Linux desktop 2.6.27-ARCH #1 SMP PREEMPT Fri Oct 17 07:35:10 UTC 2008 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 6400+ AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux 15:09:40 <NukeBuster> have got exactly 300 trains 15:09:49 <NukeBuster> thats quite odd 15:09:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i really hope that's the "before" picture :p 15:10:11 <NukeBuster> hmm... seems to be ok 15:10:18 <Celestar> hah Rubidium :D 15:10:43 <NukeBuster> they are all trying to get a free path at the same time that can't be good 15:11:42 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.polizeioldtimer.de/images/trabant.jpg 15:12:37 <Celestar> nice find Eddi|zuHause 15:12:55 <Eddi|zuHause> "Höchstgeschwindigkeit: angeblich 100 km/h" :p 15:13:07 <Celestar> haha 15:13:10 <petern> yay, trabbies 15:13:20 <Celestar> yeah ... with a decent kick in the butt, on a downward slope with tailwind 15:13:37 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: Any Police-Wartburg pictures? (= 15:13:42 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, something like that ;) 15:13:49 <Rubidium> Celestar: a few inches behind a truck going 100 km/h ;) 15:13:54 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.polizeioldtimer.de/oldtimerseiten/unsere_polizei_oldtimer.htm 15:14:06 <Celestar> heh 15:14:23 <Celestar> I once got stopped by a hungarian police squad, driving an M5 :) 15:14:28 <Celestar> at around 280km/h or so 15:14:29 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.polizeioldtimer.de/images/wartburg.jpg 15:15:25 <Eddi|zuHause> "Son, do you know how fast you were driving?" 15:15:57 <Celestar> we went 250km/h 15:16:00 <Celestar> but I wasn't driving 15:16:09 <Celestar> it was a BMW 760iL 15:16:25 <Celestar> my friend was "They won't catch us anyway at this speed" 15:16:36 <Celestar> and then they zoomed past us 15:16:54 <Celestar> and told us we were only to go 130km/h or something 15:17:01 <Celestar> and he wanted 50 EUR or so :P 15:17:15 <Celestar> http://www.polizeioldtimer.de/images/BMW-Isetta_500x428.jpg <= GAHAHA 15:18:08 <NukeBuster> What things influence the random seed from the client or server? 15:18:41 <Rubidium> almost everything except rendering the screen and playing the music 15:18:46 <Eddi|zuHause> the server gives out the random seed on client join, each random action is based on that seed, and yields a new seed 15:19:06 <Celestar> the seed is changed every time Random() is called, is it not? 15:19:15 <Celestar> er wait 15:19:44 <Celestar> well, I have to go anyway 15:19:55 <Rubidium> so do I, so I'm not going to wait on you ;) 15:19:59 <Celestar> cu tomorrow 15:20:00 <Celestar> :P 15:20:05 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@129.187.69.65] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:20:22 <NukeBuster> halfway through starting the trains 15:21:28 *** yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Poef!] 15:23:53 *** fonso [~fonso@e178089243.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:24:57 *** fonso [~fonso@e178089243.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 15:26:22 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd95b.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 15:28:54 <NukeBuster> got 75% running again without desync 15:31:20 <Eddi|zuHause> damn, i should have shown celestar this one: http://icanhascheezburger.com/2008/02/10/funny-pictures-do-you-know-how-fast-you-were-going/ 15:42:35 *** prakti [~myself@port-213-148-152-8.static.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 15:50:27 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has joined #openttd 16:03:57 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-26-69-27.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 16:08:45 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 16:14:34 *** nekx [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 16:17:58 *** taytay [~tcohen@linagoraberri.pck.nerim.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:28:14 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@resnet664.bournemouth.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 16:29:00 *** bravo [~richard@sucha.silesnet.net] has joined #openttd 16:29:12 <bravo> afternoon gentlemen 16:29:59 <Belugas> hello bravo 16:30:04 <Vikthor> evening genteman 16:33:15 <bravo> i got a little problem, i thought you could help me here ... i am trying to try cargodest branch ... went along instructions in openttd wiki, however, when i enter command hg clone (...) to obtain code, thing gets stucked at "adding file changes" ... i cant see no progress for some 10 minutes :( (currently using debian testing unstable) ... do you not know what should i do ? 16:33:16 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:34:27 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd 16:34:58 <Eddi|zuHause> the initial checkout process takes quite a while 16:35:00 <Eddi|zuHause> just wait 16:35:41 <Eddi|zuHause> hg does not just transfer a single checkout, it transfers the entire commit history 16:36:05 <bravo> oh thats it ! 16:36:22 <bravo> thanks for explanation Eddi|zuHause 16:36:29 *** Purno [~Purno@5350931D.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 16:39:43 *** Purno [~Purno@5350931D.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:40:06 <Belugas> Windows-native gui 16:40:09 <Belugas> he ben 16:40:17 <Belugas> just that 16:48:43 *** Aylomen [~a@DSL01.83.171.189.9.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:49:39 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-172-153.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 16:51:07 *** avdg[BEnl] [~ubuntu@78-21-56-40.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:51:11 <avdg[BEnl]> hi 16:51:41 <avdg[BEnl]> i need some help with r14508 16:52:07 <avdg[BEnl]> i have an error while loading my execute 16:53:00 <avdg[BEnl]> ??? 16:53:10 <bravo> avdg[BEnl], i am not an expert but it might help to say what kind of error 16:53:18 <bravo> avdg[BEnl], on what operating system you use 16:53:49 <bravo> avdg[BEnl], people dont have the crystal balls to see your screen 16:53:55 <ln> no, no, that would be going too much into details. 16:54:06 <avdg[BEnl]> im in linux 16:54:13 <ln> *i'm 16:54:22 <Sacro> ln: *I'm 16:54:37 <avdg[BEnl]> error while loading shared libraries: libicui18n.so.38: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory 16:54:48 <avdg[BEnl]> that's the error 16:54:56 <bravo> avdg[BEnl], you need to install that library oboviously :P 16:55:16 <avdg[BEnl]> why does my other versions works well? 16:55:36 <petern> it is part of support for rtl languages, which was only recently added 16:55:41 <Belugas> because it weas recently introduced 16:55:45 *** svippy [~svip@0x50a5b150.boanxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 16:55:51 <avdg[BEnl]> hum... how can i get it 16:56:08 <NukeBuster> can we get a silly english mode too? 16:56:14 <NukeBuster> rtl english? 16:56:36 <Belugas> Right To Laugh 16:56:43 <avdg[BEnl]> ?? 16:56:49 <Belugas> Random Too Low 16:57:08 <Belugas> Reason To Land 16:57:24 <NukeBuster> .lost is 13 train 16:57:24 *** fonso [~fonso@e178089243.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.7 : http://kopete.kde.org] 16:57:35 <NukeBuster> or 16:57:57 <avdg[BEnl]> :/ many problems... my windows is not under control :/ 16:57:59 <NukeBuster> .tsol si 13 niart 16:58:09 <avdg[BEnl]> bored pc... 16:59:07 <Eddi|zuHause> avdg[BEnl]: look if you can find a library called "icu" 16:59:18 <avdg[BEnl]> where? 16:59:28 <avdg[BEnl]> the problem is that i am on a livecd 16:59:29 *** svippy [~svip@0x50a5b150.boanxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [] 16:59:31 <Eddi|zuHause> in your favourite packet manager? 17:00:01 <frosch123> avdg[BEnl]: compile ottd yourself, it will disable icu then 17:00:28 <avdg[BEnl]> :/ bored 17:00:48 <avdg[BEnl]> i guess there is no compile tool on it 17:01:17 <Eddi|zuHause> well then you should think about getting a real installation for your distribution 17:01:39 <avdg[BEnl]> my windows is hacked by scareware :/ 17:01:56 <avdg[BEnl]> *** life 17:02:10 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what they invented fdisk for :p 17:02:27 <avdg[BEnl]> :/ 17:02:51 *** svippery [~svip@0x50a5b150.boanxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:02:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i learned that i don't need windows for anything... 17:03:14 <Eddi|zuHause> wine has done amazing improvements in the past few years 17:03:15 <avdg[BEnl]> yeah, but my most programs will only work at windows 17:03:28 <avdg[BEnl]> i need to buy a big hd :/ 17:03:48 <avdg[BEnl]> and a new version of kubuntu... 17:04:08 <avdg[BEnl]> need to try all linuxdistr again :/ 17:04:43 <avdg[BEnl]> installed all icu... doesnt work 17:07:34 * avdg[BEnl] in shit 17:12:38 <avdg[BEnl]> :/ i know 17:12:44 <avdg[BEnl]> its only 3.6 17:15:27 <avdg[BEnl]> is there no option to start without icu? 17:15:30 <Rubidium> avdg[BEnl]: maybe try the etch debian package instead of the lenny one? 17:18:44 <avdg[BEnl]> im using adept atm 17:20:26 *** grumbel [~grumbel@i577AF4DB.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 17:20:32 <avdg[BEnl]> :/ no windows, and no openttd... 17:21:14 <avdg[BEnl]> i hate computers :p 17:21:55 <avdg[BEnl]> ty anyway 17:24:24 <Rubidium> the debian-etch binary is linked against libicu 3.6 17:24:41 <Rubidium> so you could install that one instead of one of the other unixy binaries 17:24:49 *** welshdragon [~vista@adsl-83-100-138-245.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:25:14 *** welshdragon [~vista@adsl-83-100-138-245.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 17:25:43 <avdg[BEnl]> :/ still hopeless, its getting from mad to very bad... 17:28:25 *** svip [~svip@0x50a5b150.boanxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 17:30:09 * Rubidium got the idea he isn't heard 17:30:40 <Belugas> what did you said? 17:31:20 <Rubidium> nothing important for me ;) 17:31:41 <avdg[BEnl]> i hate windows, i hate my old kubuntu :/ 17:32:43 <Aali> ooh, stop in depot is in trunk now? 17:35:13 <Eddi|zuHause> what you say? 17:36:06 <fjb> avdg[BEnl]: You hate Windows? You hate Linux? Use http://www.freebsd.org/ 17:36:50 <Rubidium> fjb: looks too much like linux, I recommend Bob. Who can hate a dog? 17:40:58 <Eddi|zuHause> what's this "zeta" that they always advertise in some homeshopping tv shows? 17:44:33 *** nekx [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:45:01 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: translators * r14525 /trunk/src/lang/unfinished/indonesian.txt: 17:45:01 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-10-24 17:44:48 17:45:01 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: indonesian - 412 fixed by dnaftali (412) 17:45:27 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host156-173-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:45:38 <Wolf01> hello 17:46:13 *** sigmund_ [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 17:47:16 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: BeOS. 17:47:48 <Eddi|zuHause> is that useful for anything? 17:48:01 *** sigmund [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:48:24 <fjb> Yes, you can study moders OS design and some cool ideas. 17:49:05 <fjb> Sadly you don't get the source. 17:50:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i wonder if i should apply for a job at microsoft :p 17:50:51 <Eddi|zuHause> "rinn in die organistaion und von innen uffmischen" 17:50:51 <De_Ghosty> when is signal in tunnels!?!?1 17:50:59 <De_Ghosty> it is the holy grail of ottd 17:51:16 <petern> have you written it yet? 17:51:18 <Eddi|zuHause> De_Ghosty: stardate 129242.2, and no, it's not 17:51:48 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: They are too big for that plan. 17:52:08 <De_Ghosty> writtien it 17:52:10 <De_Ghosty> no not really 17:52:13 <De_Ghosty> thinking about it tho 17:52:15 <De_Ghosty> :D 17:52:16 <Belugas> signals just do not want to enter the tunnels. they are too big 17:52:28 <Belugas> i tried to push them in, but i borke the light 17:52:30 <petern> and scared of the dark 17:52:30 <fjb> De_Ghosty: And one of ! or ? per sentence is enough. 17:52:41 <De_Ghosty> no it's not 17:52:49 <De_Ghosty> more makes it comical 17:52:51 <Eddi|zuHause> except if you are spanish 17:52:52 <Belugas> so, i tried shortening the posts, the signla was not been transmitted 17:53:04 *** svip [~svip@0x50a5b150.boanxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: :Quit] 17:53:05 <Eddi|zuHause> then you are allowed for an additional ¡ or ¿ 17:53:46 <De_Ghosty> is it possible to impliment rail/road building like roller coaster tycoon? 17:54:02 <De_Ghosty> you get a magic box that goes up and down it would solve so much 17:54:07 <De_Ghosty> imo 17:54:42 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean ignore all those people who bitch about locomotion for using that stupid roller coaster tycoon build system? 17:54:54 <NukeBuster> and let it act as a bridge going into the ground? 17:54:57 <Eddi|zuHause> not that i have any idea how that even works 17:55:41 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i don't think the build system has anything to do why signals in tunnels are not implemented 17:55:42 *** yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 17:55:45 <Belugas> De_Ghosty, this is openTTD, not Open_CLONE_EVERYTHING 17:56:21 <De_Ghosty> lol 17:56:28 <De_Ghosty> we should makes some tanks too :D 17:56:55 <NukeBuster> why don't you just use trains to crash into each other... 17:56:59 <Eddi|zuHause> you can already do that, De_Ghosty. 17:57:08 <Belugas> tanks... 17:57:08 <De_Ghosty> het 17:57:14 <De_Ghosty> at 400k pop 17:57:25 <De_Ghosty> the city have no unpaved streets 17:57:25 <Belugas> hey, shold we kick/ban this warpig, guys? 17:57:41 <NukeBuster> warmonger? 17:58:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm afraid if i vote 'yes', it'll come back and haunt me. wouldn't be the first time :p 17:58:15 *** Yeggs-work is now known as Yeggstry 17:59:33 <NukeBuster> Looky here: http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Objectives 18:00:49 <Eddi|zuHause> that's like one of the worst wiki pages i have ever seen... 18:01:27 <NukeBuster> it does provide the answer 18:01:56 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@e176254132.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 18:02:28 *** FR^2 [~frquadrat@oscar.frquadrat.de] has joined #openttd 18:03:51 <Eddi|zuHause> to which question? 18:03:58 <Belugas> what? 18:04:50 <NukeBuster> hmm.... maybe not a question but "[19:56] <De_Ghosty> we should makes some tanks too :D" 18:05:07 <Eddi|zuHause> there isn't even a 42 on that page 18:05:30 <De_Ghosty> lol 18:06:26 <Eddi|zuHause> "In OpenTTD we consider certain options that affect gameplay to be patches." <- somebody should update this page :p 18:07:57 <NukeBuster> Go ahead... its wiki :P 18:09:14 *** Zahl [~Zahl@e176224152.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:09:14 *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl 18:15:28 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A43482.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 18:21:14 <Eddi|zuHause> whose wiki? 18:21:32 <NukeBuster> openttd wiki 18:21:40 <NukeBuster> but wiki is usually editable 18:22:06 <Eddi|zuHause> fine, you didn't get it... alright 18:22:06 <Wolf01> lazyness 18:22:12 <Wolf01> ;) 18:23:19 <Eddi|zuHause> think again about what i said, and what you said. if you can tell me what i meant, we can speak again ;) 18:24:14 <NukeBuster> I probably took it the wrong way as in owner. You probably ment who wiki is... 18:25:00 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i'd have said "who is wiki" then... 18:59:54 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.204.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:00:49 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.204.194] has joined #openttd 19:03:48 <thingwath> Grammar police is coming for you. 19:05:24 * Belugas hides, as he would be in their target too 19:05:35 *** Aylomen [~a@DSL01.83.171.185.22.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has joined #openttd 19:11:22 *** svip [~svip@0x50a5b150.boanxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 19:15:03 * fjb pretends to not exist. 19:24:36 *** grumbel_ [~grumbel@i577AF407.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 19:28:29 *** grumbel [~grumbel@i577AF4DB.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:28:46 *** ben_goodger [~ben@host81-153-25-139.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:45:27 *** sigmund [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 19:47:14 *** sigmund_ [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:53:29 *** fjb [~frank@p5485BCDB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:56:27 *** fjb [~frank@p5485D154.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:58:15 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-75-74-51-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 19:58:43 <Nite_Owl> Hello all 19:58:54 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-102-225.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:00:53 <bravo> Nite_Owl, hello 20:01:17 *** grumbel_ [~grumbel@i577AF407.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 20:03:40 <Belugas> Hou Hou 20:08:20 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.204.194] has joined #openttd 20:08:20 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.204.194] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:10:26 *** bravo is now known as sierra1024 20:22:07 *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@80.101.115.82] has quit [Quit: http://www.interplay.com/] 20:27:13 *** Muxy [~Benoit@smtp.bdelalande.net] has joined #openttd 20:28:38 <Muxy> Hello Tycoon World ! 20:30:36 *** Muxy [~Benoit@smtp.bdelalande.net] has quit [] 20:30:49 <frosch123> :) 20:30:55 <sierra1024> :) 20:31:01 <Nite_Owl> That was quick 20:31:38 *** sierra1024 [~richard@sucha.silesnet.net] has quit [Quit: OdcházÃm] 20:31:59 <Belugas> maybe it's the only words he knows in english 20:32:00 *** Frostregen_ [~sucks@dslb-084-058-167-204.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 20:34:37 <yorick> he's shy :) 20:35:52 <ben_goodger> good evening, fellow humans 20:36:22 <fjb> Are you sure? 20:36:26 <ben_goodger> tonight's obligatory quote: "The question about Obama now is whether the result will be a landslide, or whether the CIA will find some other way." 20:36:31 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-172-153.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:36:40 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen 20:39:22 <Belugas> in Montreal, Quebec, there was a poll : "If you were an american, who would you vote for" 88% choose Obama 20:41:00 <frosch123> "if you were an american"? so as canadian you would decide different? 20:41:39 <Belugas> tricky question indeed 20:42:08 <fjb> You don't need the CIA if you are using voting machines. 20:43:42 <Belugas> frosch123, i hate you! I can't pull your question out of my mind now! 20:43:59 <DaleStan> Well, if you weren't an American, one would generally hope that you weren't planning to vote for either. Mess up our voter turnout. 20:44:09 <frosch123> one of my colleages told me, when he was voting in bavaria the pencil was tied using a very short string 20:44:29 <frosch123> poor belugas :) 20:44:40 <DaleStan> Oh, wait. Never mind. We've got that quite well messed up already, albeit in the other direction. 20:46:22 <Belugas> hehe 20:48:50 <Belugas> the thing is, canadians do feel a lot concerned about what happens on the other side of the border 20:49:02 <FloSoft> ah i found out that there is no need for pbps (path based pre signals) you can put for example for a 4 station with 2 inputs a pbs signal and he will fill the station or wait in front of it 20:53:06 <Belugas> shit :( 20:53:13 <Belugas> too much music on my card :S 20:53:19 <Belugas> no place for a new repo 20:54:09 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14526 /trunk/src/ (station_cmd.cpp train_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#2379]: make sure trains stop at the end of a station; a 3/8th length train did stop 2/8th of it's length too early causing a 63/8th long train not to fit in a 4 tile station. 20:54:28 <Rubidium> Belugas: looks like it's time to start using hg ;) 20:54:52 * Belugas is scared to death to learn it! 20:55:13 <Eddi|zuHause> there's the "'" that was missing earlier :p 20:56:26 <Belugas> Rubidium, it's that or it's time i make some serious cleaning on that card :) 20:56:33 <Belugas> way too much goodies 20:57:25 <petern> bigger card 20:58:17 <Belugas> from 4 to 8 gig :_ 20:58:19 <Belugas> why not! 20:58:41 *** yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Poef!] 20:59:01 <Yexo> thx Rubidium 21:00:39 <Belugas> and now, ladies and gentlemen, let jsut say byebye, have a nice evening and weekend and see you on monday 21:00:49 <petern> enjoy 21:01:25 <Belugas> already started ;) 21:01:43 *** FloSoft [~sifldoer@g229072145.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: computer has gone to sleep] 21:01:56 <Belugas> Scotland's Shame is on the cell phone ;) 21:01:58 <Belugas> youhou 21:02:02 * Belugas is gone 21:02:08 <Nite_Owl> later Belugas 21:03:41 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5E924.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:03:54 *** Aylomen [~a@DSL01.83.171.185.22.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:26:23 *** Sacro|Laptop [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 21:40:04 *** vvv444 [~vvv444@89-138-176-73.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #openttd 21:40:20 <vvv444> Hello ppl 21:40:51 <vvv444> A question, is there a way finding specific waypoint by name? 21:41:58 <frosch123> when it is part of orders, you can ctrl click the order 21:44:08 <vvv444> No, I mean that for stations you have a list that you can find any station there by name. Is there such a list for way points? 21:44:18 <frosch123> no, neither for buoys 21:44:40 <vvv444> k, tnx 21:44:43 <Rubidium> and neither for depots 21:49:59 <vvv444> Rubidium: Do you think it's logical adding buoys/depots/waypoints as additional 'station' types at station list? (with separate buttons) 21:50:29 <frosch123> depots would be silly as long as you cannot rename them 21:50:45 <vvv444> frosch123: That can be done as well :) 21:51:11 <vvv444> I just found myself looking for some waypoint for quite a long time today, so I think this functionality can be nice to have. 21:52:02 <vvv444> The best place I found to place it is station list. If it looks logical for people, maybe I'll implement it. 21:52:39 <frosch123> station list is quite different as it shows ratings and waiting cargo and such 21:53:31 <vvv444> Well, any other ideas? 21:54:02 <frosch123> no, I hardly have any waypoints nor buoys in my games 21:55:35 <Nite_Owl> Searchable like the sign list patch 21:56:10 <Nite_Owl> of course you would need a list first 21:56:15 <vvv444> Nite_Owl: Is signlist searchable? 21:57:02 <Nite_Owl> I am fairly sure someone was working on a patch to make it so 21:57:30 <vvv444> Well, it indeed requires list first 21:57:52 <Nite_Owl> I think the current trunk version is just sort of scrollable 21:58:20 <Nite_Owl> I do not use a lot of signs so I am not 100% sure 21:59:27 *** trainboy2004 [~trainboy2@cp734887-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has joined #openttd 21:59:32 <vvv444> The best idea I came with was the station list, but since I haven't heard any supportive optinions yet, but only objection from frosch123, I will wait for more ideas before even thinking about implementing it. 22:01:47 *** Yeggstry is now known as Yeggzzz 22:04:15 *** trainboy2004 [~trainboy2@cp734887-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has quit [] 22:09:05 *** Zahl [~Zahl@e176254132.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Rhabarberbarbarabarbarbarenbartbarbierbierbar] 22:11:23 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd95b.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:12:14 *** svip [~svip@0x50a5b150.boanxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: :Quit] 22:12:20 <Eddi|zuHause> you really don't know how the world works :p 22:12:55 <Eddi|zuHause> the schwabians coined the phrase "not being yelled at is praise enough" 22:15:52 <Eddi|zuHause> (that's basically the opposite of the, in the anglo-saxon culture very common, phrase "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all") 22:16:57 <Eddi|zuHause> but german efficiency cannot afford "sandwiching" every criticism... 22:18:48 <Brianetta> sandwiching? 22:19:00 <Brianetta> Wie sagt man dass, auf Deutsch? 22:19:06 <Brianetta> das 22:19:14 * Brianetta is sleepy (: 22:19:20 <Eddi|zuHause> Brianetta: putting a critical statement between two pseudo-nice statements 22:19:29 <Brianetta> ah right 22:19:53 <Eddi|zuHause> which are basically only syntactic sugar to not violate the above rule 22:19:56 <Brianetta> We have a phrase for that 22:19:59 <Aali> soo, do banks ever close down? 22:20:09 <Brianetta> it's related to sandwiches, in a way 22:20:20 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, every day at 17:00, or 13:00 on friday 22:20:26 <Brianetta> the first pseudo-nice statement is "buttering up" 22:20:54 <Aali> Eddi|zuHause: close down, not close 22:21:02 <Brianetta> Aali: Close of banking in the UK is usually at 15:30 or 16:00 22:21:13 <Rubidium> in Iceland they close down... 22:21:26 <Rubidium> and in the US too 22:21:34 <Brianetta> In the UK they could, but it's unlikely that the current government would let them 22:21:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm just amazed how efficient we are at not giving the answer the user wants ;) 22:21:46 <Brianetta> The Northern Rock bank had a run from its customers, and the government nationalised it. 22:21:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i feel almost like i'm in #mathe ;) 22:22:14 <Aali> Eddi|zuHause: its IRC, its just how things work 22:22:46 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: lile Q: Is there a chance? A: Yes there is a chance ranging from (including) 0 up to and including 1. 22:23:25 <Rubidium> s/lile/like/ 22:23:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Q: is this the channel where you can ask questions about maths? A: no, we are a CS clan 22:23:48 <Eddi|zuHause> and for extra amusement: A: here is our clanpage: [...] 22:24:08 *** amews_aj [~amews_aj@x1-6-00-0c-41-ad-29-4b.k322.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 22:24:16 <Eddi|zuHause> (sadly, our "clanpage" is offline meanwhile) 22:24:17 *** amews_aj [~amews_aj@x1-6-00-0c-41-ad-29-4b.k322.webspeed.dk] has quit [] 22:24:43 <ln> i've found a certain #openttd @ oftc to be a pretty good place to ask about maths on irc. 22:25:05 <Brianetta> Aali: When you say "do banks ever close down?" you need to be more specific, anyway. Firstly, the country is very important. Then, the type of bank. 22:25:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i think he means ingame ;) 22:25:41 <Aali> japan, and openttd bank 22:25:43 <Brianetta> ln: Any game dev channel is good for maths questions. 22:25:44 <ln> can't be, that would be on-topic. 22:26:08 <ln> Brianetta: this is the only of that sort i'm on. 22:26:15 <Brianetta> Aali: Ah. Fictitious banks. They don't seem to close down. 22:26:38 <Brianetta> ln: Ah. I'm also on some Linux channels. 22:27:31 <Aali> Brianetta: not ever? 22:27:35 <Eddi|zuHause> but now for something completely different 22:27:37 <Aali> thats a bummer 22:27:51 <Eddi|zuHause> can i tell "svn diff" to not look for line endings? 22:27:59 <Brianetta> Aali: Frankly, it was a bit of a surprise for somebody to be talking about the risk of a bank closing in an in-game context. 22:28:32 <Brianetta> Aali: You can probably find out more from the wiki 22:28:39 <Brianetta> It has pages about game mechanics 22:29:02 <Brianetta> and newgrfs can alter the behaviour of a bank, of course 22:30:27 <Aali> the wiki doesn't say anything about banks so i'll just assume its like any other industry 22:30:46 <ln> Eddi|zuHause: fix the line-endings in the repository :/ 22:31:05 <Eddi|zuHause> ln doesn't help me getting a proper diff 22:31:14 <Eddi|zuHause> +: 22:31:35 *** welshdragon [~vista@adsl-83-100-138-245.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:33:35 *** Treve [~T@83.101.38.95] has joined #openttd 22:33:42 <Treve> hi 22:33:49 <Treve> iemand nlN 22:33:53 <Treve> NLN 22:33:55 <Treve> ? 22:33:57 <Treve> sorry 22:34:00 <Treve> nl 22:34:17 <ln> meine damen und herren, 100% of ICE-T trains will be out of operation from now on. 22:36:00 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.tagesschau.de/inland/bahn650.html 22:37:31 *** Zuu [~Zuu@c-143c71d5.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 22:38:59 <Wolf01> 'night 22:39:09 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host156-173-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:40:06 <ln> must say Treve was quite successful obfuscating his question. 22:40:33 <Eddi|zuHause> ln: i'm pretty sure i know what he wanted to ask ;) 22:43:57 <Treve> some 1 helpt me in my own language, but i want to link my server to irc 22:44:03 <Treve> thats it i think :) 22:44:09 <Treve> reading about autopilot now 22:44:15 <Treve> looking for downloadlink ;) 22:46:14 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: [FATAL] Client error: Memory leak - More RAM needed. More! More! More!] 22:51:20 <fjb> I'm thinking to object oriented for C... 22:51:26 <fjb> too 22:51:41 <Treve> cant find it 22:52:04 <ben_goodger> fjb: the human _brain_is too object-oriented for C 22:52:39 <ben_goodger> this may be why people who spend large amounts of time with it eventually go mad, like a certain kernel developer (distributed source control, indeed) 22:52:46 *** DaleStan is now known as Guest206 22:52:48 *** DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-67-2.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 22:53:37 <Treve> can someone plz help me how to link my server to irc? and where to get autopilot? plz 22:53:38 <fjb> But is using C++ for programming a microcontroller really a good idea? 22:54:21 <vvv444> Depends on how much ROM/Flash you have and how good your compiler optimizations are. 22:54:37 <ln> Treve is privmsging me, not good. 22:55:03 <DaleStan> Treve: Yes. Google. 22:55:06 <Treve> dont know who you are actually, dint know thats a prob 22:55:14 <Treve> looking for it 22:55:20 <Treve> but my google is teasing my i guess 22:55:22 *** Guest206 [~Dale@pool-71-98-67-2.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:55:35 <DaleStan> PM is always a problem unless you know that it is not. Not the other way around. 22:55:51 <fjb> Treve: A quick search on the next best web search engine results in: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=22846 22:56:11 <Treve> he said my name 22:56:12 <Zuu> Treve: Also expect it to take som time, no rush. 22:56:44 <Treve> if thats the spirit here 22:56:49 <Treve> its nothing for me 22:56:52 <Treve> c y 22:57:04 *** Treve [~T@83.101.38.95] has quit [] 22:57:13 <fjb> vvv444: 256k ROM and 64k RAM. Compiler is GCC. 22:58:29 <vvv444> architecture? 256k is quite ok. If you don't have many time critical tasks C++ can be fine (given G++ compiles well to this arch) 22:58:42 <fjb> Architecture is ARM 7. 22:58:42 *** avdg[BEnl] [~ubuntu@78-21-56-40.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:59:06 <vvv444> Also, it depends on how many object things you have. 22:59:18 *** avdg[BEnl] [~ubuntu@78-21-56-40.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 22:59:34 <fjb> Timecritical may be a big problem. I have to use an OS with cooperative multitasking... 22:59:58 <vvv444> I've used C++ for ARM, it was ok. 23:00:55 <vvv444> But I think I've used IAR compiler 23:01:31 <Zuu> Was I to hard on Treve? Just don't like when people expect that things that is completely new to them to get done instantly, without the patience to spend the time it takes. 23:01:42 <vvv444> Well, cooperative multitasking isn't a VERY timecritical thing. By time critical I mean interrupts etc. 23:02:03 <fjb> I guess I will stay with C for the moment and try to port some parts to C++ in a branch. I can compare the code size then. 23:02:48 <vvv444> As I remember one of C++ weak points is vtables size. 23:02:51 <fjb> vvv444: Cooperative multitasking makes the timing worse. 23:03:04 <ln> Zuu: no, you weren't. 23:03:45 <fjb> Zuu: You were not too hard. He was a bit annoying and I found what he was lokking for with 3 clicks on the next best search engine. 23:04:07 <vvv444> fjb: These requiring ROM of course. Also, people tend factoring too much, link time optimizations are quite important. 23:04:26 <Zuu> Better they decide to abort or spend the time than whining about it takning to long time. 23:04:36 <vvv444> fjb: I think GCC still has problems with these. 23:05:04 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F999.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:05:11 <fjb> Thank you, I will have to experiment on a side branch then and stay with C for the main branch. 23:05:49 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B83AC5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:06:07 <vvv444> fjb: You're welcome, I'll be glad to hear the results :) I hope you know to use scope to measuring times? ;) 23:06:55 <vvv444> Although on ARM you probably have a normal timer that can be used for that... 23:07:15 <fjb> Yes, the goal is to do things in 1ms steps. 23:07:41 <fjb> Problem is the cooperative IP stack. 23:07:53 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B82744.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 23:07:56 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 23:08:38 * Zuu wonders why he only can find documents saying that IRC is good for deaf/hard of hearing, but no actual IRC channel/server to join. :p 23:08:49 <vvv444> Well, that's not so terrible :) I was optimizing fixed point calculations from 20us to 3 us yestreday in my proj since these were done in interrupt :) 23:09:43 <vvv444> Not a big fan of assembly coding though... 23:10:03 <fjb> I fear I have to do most things in interrupt routines because that IP stack tends to hog the cpu for 3ms. 23:10:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm just so glad that i don't count in that kind of speed :p 23:10:38 <vvv444> Hmm, that's not a good thing. You better try reorganizing the IP stack code. 23:10:42 <fjb> I hope to get away with C. Assembler is not that much fun on RISC architectures. 23:10:56 <vvv444> fjb: indeed :) 23:11:01 <fjb> The IP stack is part of the OS. 23:11:01 <Eddi|zuHause> the only kind of time constraint i have is that the algorithms shouldn't be exponential :p 23:11:06 <vvv444> No src? 23:11:45 <fjb> Yes, source, but I would have to almost rewrite the IP stack and parts of the OS. 23:12:02 *** welshdragon [~vista@adsl-83-100-138-245.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 23:12:24 <vvv444> fjb: That's your chice, but doing things in interrupts isn't very nice. 23:12:46 <vvv444> It's the shortest path to trouble. 23:13:37 <fjb> The OS was not my choice. It is nice if you don't have to do timecritical stuff. And rewriting half of the OS gets me way beyond the time frame. 23:13:46 <vvv444> Also, it adds access control problem, since you can have shared resources used on several priority levels. 23:14:53 <fjb> I will see how far I get. 23:15:22 <vvv444> Well, I hope you manage with it. Good luck! 23:17:40 <fjb> Thank you. 23:19:17 *** Zuu [~Zuu@c-143c71d5.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:19:54 *** welshdragon is now known as Guest207 23:20:06 *** Guest207 is now known as welshdragon2 23:24:41 <Nite_Owl> Time to feed - later all 23:24:51 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-75-74-51-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon] 23:28:37 *** FR^2 [~frquadrat@oscar.frquadrat.de] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by caffein depletion...] 23:29:48 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B82744.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:30:40 *** svip [~svip@0x50a5b150.boanxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 23:31:51 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B8210F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 23:31:54 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 23:36:50 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat3.arachne.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:45:56 *** Sacro|Laptop [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:47:23 *** Sacro|Laptop [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 23:54:57 *** vvv444 [~vvv444@89-138-176-73.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit []