Config
Log for #openttd on 15th January 2009:
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00:01:48  *** OwenS [~OwenS@host86-164-125-149.range86-164.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:03:56  <Belugas> [17:43] <@petern> so when it went back to loud suddenly, i jumped :/  <-- lol!
00:04:06  <Belugas> how moch do I understand you :D
00:04:42  <Belugas> much o_O
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02:30:40  <Belugas> bug found
02:30:42  <Belugas> pffff
02:39:54  <SmatZ> really?
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02:57:15  <Belugas> in chaindrive
02:57:18  <Belugas> not open
02:57:20  <Belugas> sadly
02:57:25  <Belugas> or luckily?
02:57:26  <Belugas> dunno
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03:00:56  <Belugas> GO TO SLEEP SMATZ!!
03:01:05  <mor> hello....
03:01:21  <Belugas> hello mor
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03:01:38  <mor> is there open ttd for iphone??
03:01:53  <Sacro> mor: not officially
03:02:01  <mor> for the 2.2 version?
03:02:16  <Sacro> 03:05 < Sacro> mor: not officially
03:02:16  <mor> i know to the 1.1.4 there is....
03:02:26  <Sacro> 03:05 < Sacro> 03:05 < Sacro> mor: not officially
03:02:46  <Belugas> mor, we DO NOT support iphone application
03:02:54  <mor> ho....
03:02:58  <mor> i see...
03:03:10  <Belugas> it's not built by our team, we have no contact with the one who do
03:03:13  <mor> only pc  right?
03:03:25  <Belugas> and i'm sure none of teh devsa have a iphone
03:03:28  <Belugas> pc indeed
03:03:38  <Belugas> been laptop or desktop
03:03:48  <SmatZ> it runs on mobila phones
03:03:48  <mor> sucks man......
03:03:52  <Sacro> Belugas: personal computer
03:03:55  <mor> i love this game...
03:04:04  <mor> i has it on my pc...
03:04:08  <Sacro> mor: when Apple become more lenient with their licencing
03:04:20  <Sacro> and one of the devs gets one then it might happen
03:04:21  <mor> hehe....
03:04:30  <SmatZ> http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Portable_device_version
03:04:40  <mor> there is a versio for the iphone...
03:04:53  <Belugas> cool for those who have an iphone
03:05:01  <mor> but is for the older version
03:05:03  <SmatZ> not officially supported though :)
03:05:11  <mor> yep...
03:05:19  <Belugas> mor, even if it's old, you still have a version
03:05:32  <mor> i wont work....
03:05:41  <mor> i tried....
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03:05:55  <Belugas> you now know that it serves no purpose to complain about it in here :)
03:06:18  <mor> so wanted to have this game on the go..
03:06:21  <mor> yep...
03:06:24  <mor> i know...
03:06:39  <Belugas> laptop is your friend then ^_^
03:06:52  <mor> i guess....hehe :)
03:07:12  *** mode/#openttd [+v SmatZ] by SmatZ
03:07:19  <mor> any way,thanks for your answer....
03:07:44  <Belugas> no prob
03:07:45  <Belugas> have fun
03:08:03  <mor> best regards..... :)
03:08:06  <Belugas> and SmatZ, i'm going to sleep, ya shald da tha same
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03:08:57  <SmatZ> :-)
03:09:04  <SmatZ> good night, Belugas :)
03:09:11  <SmatZ>  I will just finish one thing....
03:09:22  * SmatZ wishes he was paid by the cocomo model :-P
03:09:37  <SmatZ> *according to
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04:25:56  <De_Ghosty> !dl win32
04:26:05  <De_Ghosty> oops
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05:42:17  <Eddi|zuHause> no warez bots here :p
05:49:01  <goodger> indeed...
06:02:47  <keiya> Uh.
06:03:23  <keiya> Someone needs to add an extra check to the town-road code/
06:04:24  <keiya> To, you know, avoid swastika-towns
06:04:40  <keiya> ((Unless you want OpenTTD to be illegal in Germany...)
06:06:43  <goodger> :S
06:07:01  <goodger> I don't see that the town-road code can easily detect the accidental generation of swastikas
06:10:13  <Sacro> there's far funnier things for the germans to find ;)(
06:11:26  <keiya> Sacro: Are there other things illegal to distribute in germany?  >_>
06:11:59  <keiya> (Personally, I just laughed and demolished half the town.)
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07:18:15  <petern> TrueBrain, ping  :o
07:21:56  <petern> or
07:21:59  <petern> Rubidium, ping  :o
07:22:11  * Forked pongs anyway
07:23:45  <Rubidium> pang
07:25:33  <Rubidium> petern?
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07:46:47  <planetmaker> morning
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07:47:19  <goodger> morning planetmaker, vraa_, Rubidium, petern
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07:48:11  <vraa_> sup goodger :D
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07:50:31  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 1e6/12
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07:50:52  <Eddi|zuHause> err...
07:50:57  <goodger> ^_^
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07:51:27  <Eddi|zuHause> De_Ghosty killed him, with his warez stuff
07:57:09  <Tim-itry> Uhm... Openttd.org + wiki down?
07:57:47  <Rubidium> works fine here
08:01:42  <Rubidium> hmm... looking at servers.openttd.org it looks like about half is missing
08:01:55  <Rubidium> so there must be some IX or peering that's broken
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08:03:06  <_Felicitus> howdy
08:03:23  <petern> *nod*
08:03:32  <petern> works from my server but not from my desktop
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08:04:10  <petern> although
08:04:19  <petern> my tracert gets to leaseweb
08:05:20  <petern> a different part of leaseweb, though
08:07:38  <_Felicitus> i have a strange thing in openttd: since today, my two favourite servers (which i added to the config yesterday) dont appear in the "find servers" list anymore, and they are completely gone from the config - does openttd store such things anywhere else?
08:10:21  <planetmaker> hm... what happened to openttd.org? I cannot access it...
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08:10:41  <planetmaker> doh... first read, then write ;)
08:10:45  <Rubidium> planetmaker: nothing happened with it...
08:10:47  <_Felicitus> :)
08:10:47  <goodger> ^_^
08:12:04  <planetmaker> hm... is there a serious re-wamp of the newgrf selection UI planned, if the fruits in the basket ripe at some time?
08:13:07  <planetmaker> e.g., I wonder how much it is worth to invest either in the existing UI replacement or even re-write it such that it has more similarities to the now existing advanced settings dialogue
08:13:22  <planetmaker> which would improve its readability a lot imo
08:13:52  <planetmaker> should there be means to introduce categories for newgrfs
08:14:15  <planetmaker> (like taking the directory names or information similar to that
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08:16:38  <Rubidium> directory names is (in my opinion) not a way to sort newgrfs and the like
08:17:48  <planetmaker> is an information file which stores category information a way to go? User editable? Or maybe a dedicated file like ottdDirInfo which provides information about dir content?
08:17:59  <Rubidium> petern: what's the ip of your home?
08:18:34  <Rubidium> or rather your desktop (at least one that fails to connect to openttd.org)
08:19:39  <Rubidium> planetmaker: that's going to be a mess when you're moving around newgrfs
08:20:05  <planetmaker> IP 134.169.28.42 fails to connect, too
08:20:48  <planetmaker> Rubidium: well, yes. But then the directory structure usually doesn't need much moving around and it's easily maintainable
08:21:17  <Rubidium> planetmaker: can you do a traceroute to openttd.org and paste it at paste.openttd.org?
08:21:21  <Eddi|zuHause> why not let the user choose how to sort newgrfs?
08:21:29  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not like it would be the only sortable list
08:21:45  <Rubidium> planetmaker: so you never add/remove newgrfs by copying them into a directory?
08:21:54  <Rubidium> or removing them from said directory
08:22:05  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: the problem is that there's nothing (reliable) to sort them on
08:22:24  <Eddi|zuHause> you mean the directory structure can change midgame?
08:22:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't get your point
08:23:25  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: if you put all newgrfs in a single directory, what should it sort on?
08:23:33  <Eddi|zuHause> filename?
08:23:33  <planetmaker> http://paste.openttd.org/178865 <- @ Rubidium
08:23:44  <Rubidium> what when the newgrfs are scattered over several search paths?
08:23:59  <Eddi|zuHause> same order as the search paths
08:24:10  <planetmaker> Rubidium: filename. But sorting via dir structure is e.g already done by the coop grf pack and any user can easily re-sort, if s/he doesn't like that
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08:25:00  <Eddi|zuHause> fact is, some kind of newgrf management must be added
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08:26:16  <planetmaker> and scattered... you mean local grf dir and global? well. Then it's the user's fault, is it?
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08:26:39  <petern> Rubidium: 217.151.109.184
08:26:49  <Eddi|zuHause> while at it: i occasionally need grfs to be marked as "obsolete", i.e. not show those grfs in the list, but have them available for backwards compatibility
08:27:10  <planetmaker> :) he, yeah, I would like that, too, Eddi|zuHause :)
08:27:32  <Rubidium> imo it's better to add tags to newgrfs themselves
08:28:00  <planetmaker> put them in a tar, jointly with an information / tag file?
08:28:01  <Rubidium> like "german", "rail", "road", "uk"
08:28:09  <Eddi|zuHause> so, how do you want to add these tags? .ini file?
08:28:24  <Rubidium> well... should be part of the newgrf
08:28:37  <Tim-itry> 10.60.14.8 does not work either, if that helps you...
08:28:39  <Eddi|zuHause> do you also want people to be able to easily add translation strings?
08:29:05  <planetmaker> like info.dat which contains lines like: Category: trains; Country: uk; Author: PB; ... ?
08:29:44  <Eddi|zuHause> .dat seems like an awful way to specify that...
08:29:50  <planetmaker> and another would then be Category: infrastructure...
08:29:51  <Eddi|zuHause> sounds very binary
08:30:01  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: why? Just make it a txt file with extention .dat :)
08:30:09  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, sure :p
08:30:32  <Eddi|zuHause> microsoft would totally do that ;)
08:30:40  <planetmaker> pfft ;)
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08:44:18  <petern> Tim-itry... it wouldn't, being a private ip address...
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09:07:15  <Rubidium> C=XX,ST=There is no such thing outside US,L=Everywhere,O=OCOSA,OU=Office for Complication of Otherwise Simple Affairs,CN=mailfilter1.leaseweb.com <- someone must've been in a funny mood or so
09:08:52  <goodger> ^_^
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09:51:51  <Rubidium> petern, planetmaker: can you reach the website again?
09:53:48  <planetmaker> doesn't look like... (trying out wiki... and hg...)
09:53:57  <petern> nope
09:54:04  <petern> oddly enough i'm not at home now
09:55:34  <Forked> "belive it or not, george isn't at home.. please leave a messaaageee at the beep.. "
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10:11:04  <Rubidium> petern, planetmaker: and now?
10:12:16  <planetmaker> yes. works :)
10:12:59  <petern> still at work ;)
10:13:25  <petern> my traceroute to work looks better though
10:13:49  <petern> and to home
10:14:06  <petern> so yeah, i guess it's working :D
10:17:07  <_Felicitus> is it possible to set the servicing interval for all trains at once, or do i have to set it manually for each train i already built?
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10:54:03  <petern> no, you can't :/
10:54:32  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you have
10:54:39  <_Felicitus> damn :)
10:54:51  <Eddi|zuHause> unless you decompress the savegame and flip the appropriate bits
10:55:03  <TrueBrain> just set it before building
10:55:04  <TrueBrain> much easier ;)
10:55:05  <Eddi|zuHause> or you create an AI
10:55:24  <Eddi|zuHause> which goes through all trains, and sets the service interval
10:56:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i really don'k know why you are against running AI scripts directly from the console...
10:56:24  <Eddi|zuHause> s/k/t/
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10:56:50  <_Felicitus> Eddi|zuHause: it gives people an unfair advantage in multiplayer
10:56:51  <petern> switching an AI on mid-game?
10:56:56  <petern> quite some cheat ;)
10:57:34  <Eddi|zuHause> it would not give them any more unfair advantage than an AI would have
10:58:03  <Eddi|zuHause> i would totally have scripts running that check for stuck trains and stuff
10:58:23  <Eddi|zuHause> or "advanced" autoreplace
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11:00:14  <Eddi|zuHause> or that scenario from yesterday (?) with sending unnecessarily waiting vehicles to depot
11:05:36  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: with Squirrel suuport in console, it wouldn't be a problem :)
11:05:48  <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: exactly.
11:07:30  <TrueBrain> it still would be very much cheating :)
11:08:12  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i don't see how you would prevent client side patches anyway
11:08:41  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: doesnt mean we have to make it VERY easy
11:08:46  <TrueBrain> there is a difference :)
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11:09:45  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: suggestion, allow servers to be marked as "no-scripts allowed"
11:10:07  <Rubidium> whahaha
11:10:21  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: which would be VERY easy to patch client-side ;)
11:10:28  <Rubidium> that's like marking server "no map flattening allowed"
11:11:05  <Eddi|zuHause> well, some servers implement checks for that already
11:11:35  <SmatZ> for copy&paste patch?
11:12:05  <SmatZ> or for map flattening...
11:12:22  <SmatZ> everything is possible...
11:12:23  <mrfrenzy> "Hey! this user is clicking too fast"
11:12:35  <SmatZ> but also, it is possible to fool any check of this kind
11:12:36  <SmatZ> hehe
11:13:21  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but if the intention is to block script-kiddies, every increasing barrier will work only for some time
11:13:36  <Eddi|zuHause> that includes "we won't make patching easy"
11:13:46  <mrfrenzy> I don't seee c&p as cheating, just an improved UI. the challenge in the game is not about building stuff fast, rather making smart designs
11:13:52  <Eddi|zuHause> as soon as there is a patch, patching WILL be easy
11:14:03  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: not making the option at all, should give a reasonable amount of barriers to pass ;)
11:14:12  <SmatZ> hehe
11:14:30  <SmatZ> if c&p isn't allowed, you may code a script that builds it for you :-P
11:14:38  <SmatZ> even the c&p patch may generate that script ;)
11:14:46  <Eddi|zuHause> if you build it, he will come
11:14:51  <SmatZ> ==> making c&p obsolete as it is now...
11:15:32  * SmatZ is goting to put some food to his stomach :-P
11:19:41  <TrueBrain> but I guess it was just a matter of time before someone would start to talk about scripts to 'help' users .. just I didn't expect it to be Eddi|zuHause ;) :p
11:20:04  <Eddi|zuHause> "start"? i've been talking about that for ages...
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11:39:51  <De_Ghosty> we need c&p!!!!!!
11:40:38  <petern> lies
11:43:13  <planetmaker> :) c&p is for lazy :P
11:45:26  <TrueBrain> c&p spoils the game
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12:19:52  <petern> someone commit something
12:20:05  <FauxFaux> I'd love to.
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12:32:49  * planetmaker fears FauxFaux commits...
12:33:45  <SmatZ> -Revert (r15027): because I can :-P
12:35:50  <frosch123> hehe, would have expected "revenge"
12:36:38  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15087 /trunk/src/town_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Less hardcoding of y positions in town authority window.
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12:37:30  <dihedral> petern, you could create the 'favorits' tab for the lobby window :-)
12:37:43  <petern> no i couldn't
12:37:44  <dihedral> and an option for selected servers: add to favorits
12:37:53  <dihedral> and on the fav tab an option 'remove'
12:38:02  <petern> but
12:38:05  <petern> - 0x6B!
12:38:09  <petern> y offset... in hex!
12:38:15  <dihedral> nice....! :-S
12:38:27  <SmatZ> :-)
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12:41:30  <yorick> how many ttd crates of goods would fit in 153 cu ft?
12:43:53  <planetmaker> 6
12:44:15  <petern> 9000
12:44:26  <SmatZ> >
12:44:32  <petern> over!
12:44:42  <petern> yorick, why are you using stupid units?
12:44:43  <planetmaker> !pi * 42 ;)
12:44:47  <SmatZ> :o)
12:45:08  <Forked> how many bits does one crate of goods use and what fontsize are we printing with?
12:45:14  <petern> 153 cu ft = 4332 litres
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12:45:37  <yorick> because the it's listed that way :p
12:46:29  <petern> the it's!
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12:47:34  <Eddi|zuHause> 4m³, sounds like a small storage space
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12:48:04  <petern> it does
12:49:27  * petern grumbles at windows not making alt-gr behave the same manner as X11 does
12:49:49  <Forked> Windows eXPerience :)
12:50:43  <Eddi|zuHause> i never had that kind of problem...
12:51:10  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15088 /trunk/src/town_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#2536]: Resize company list in town authority window if required.
12:51:47  <petern> Eddi|zuHause? it's just the way things are, not any particular bug...
12:51:58  <petern> alt-gr + 4 works the same, mind you :)
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12:52:17  <Eddi|zuHause> Œ?
12:52:23  <petern> €
12:52:35  <Eddi|zuHause> that's on altgr+e here
12:52:46  <SmatZ> AltGr doesn't have any special function for me (KDE)
12:52:47  <petern> yeah. not on uk keyboards
12:53:14  <petern> alt-gr + 4 did used to generate a 1/4 until the prevalence of keyboards with a euro symbol there
12:53:23  <petern> SmatZ: for X11 it depends on the keyboard layout
12:53:30  <planetmaker> yeah... some more commits. Yesterday the frequency for this year was like every hour one commit.
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12:53:44  <petern> using a US layout does not make alt-gr do anything special, for example
12:53:50  <SmatZ> ah...
12:53:51  <petern> clearly americans never need any special characters...
12:54:09  <petern> alt-gr + ; then a gives me a á
12:54:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i once learned that the original idea of altgr was as a shortcut for ctrl+alt
12:54:35  <SmatZ> for some reason switching keyboard layout affects only newly started apps for me (since ~December)... I should fix that :-/
12:54:53  <petern> alt-gr + the symbol keys in that group all give different (but repeatable, heh) accent characters
12:55:14  <SmatZ> yeah, alt-gr with czech layout works as expected ;)
12:55:29  <Eddi|zuHause> german layout uses dead keys for accents
12:55:32  <petern> i love this 'compose' feature :)
12:55:40  <petern> so i miss it somewhat in windows
12:55:45  <SmatZ> ŧ←ŧ← it types characters I have never seen :-P
12:55:55  <petern> :)
12:56:00  <petern> @bugs
12:56:00  <DorpsGek> petern: Error: The command "bugs" is available in the OpenTTD and WT2 plugins.  Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "bugs".
12:56:03  <petern> @openttd bugs
12:56:03  <DorpsGek> petern: Temporary Offline
12:56:05  <petern> hm
12:56:20  <Eddi|zuHause> lack of xmlrpc, i presume
12:56:28  <Rubidium> FS removed XMLRPC
12:56:32  <TrueBrain> not so temporary after all :)
12:56:52  <SmatZ> there is Rubidium and TrueBrain still watching us :)
12:57:11  <yorick> .away away
12:57:18  <Eddi|zuHause> .fail
12:57:54  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: kind of our job, not? :)
12:57:58  <SmatZ> :-)
12:58:52  <petern> hmm
12:59:00  <dihedral> petern, @fs 123
12:59:01  <petern> i wonder how to send an encrypted email from the command line... in windows...
12:59:05  <dihedral> oh
12:59:11  <yorick> telnet ;)
12:59:15  <petern> dihedral, what?
12:59:17  <yorick> Eddi: .care
12:59:22  <dihedral> @fs 2536
12:59:22  <DorpsGek> dihedral: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2536
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12:59:24  <dihedral> :-)
12:59:40  <petern> that's not what @openttd bugs did
12:59:52  <dihedral> i know
12:59:55  <petern> so then shut up
12:59:56  <petern> :)
12:59:59  <petern> kindly
13:00:02  <petern> would you kindly...
13:00:03  <dihedral> :-P
13:00:10  <SmatZ> 8-)
13:00:19  <petern> (if you've played bioshock...)
13:00:26  <dihedral> i have
13:00:29  <dihedral> the first one only though
13:00:32  * SmatZ hasn't :-/
13:00:34  <petern> yeah that one
13:00:43  <dihedral> that was really awesome
13:00:54  <petern> hang on
13:01:01  <petern> there is only a first one, isn't there?
13:01:04  <petern> or was 2 released...
13:01:05  <dihedral> oh....
13:01:11  <dihedral> then i might be thinking of something else
13:01:21  <petern> there's a 2 in the works
13:01:24  <petern> but not released
13:01:50  <dihedral> i was thinking of bioforge
13:01:56  <dihedral> and system shock
13:01:57  <dihedral> :-P
13:02:06  <petern> i see
13:03:33  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15089 /trunk/Makefile.bundle.in: -Fix: make install not installing the AI directory and thus the AI libraries were missing in the debian builds.
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13:06:04  <petern> lol @ BT
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