Log for #openttd on 15th February 2009:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:14  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:03:21  *** roboboy [] has joined #openttd
00:11:06  *** Phoenix_the_II [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:13:32  *** smeding [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:13:59  *** dfox [] has joined #openttd
00:21:18  <kingj> Why would a city be slowly killing off it's population?
00:22:18  <Rubidium> cause you killed the center
00:22:42  <Elukka> what is the center?
00:23:17  <Rubidium> just south of the town 'flag'
00:23:27  *** tokai|ni [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:23:54  <kingj> I've got a HQ to the left of the town flag, and the end of a large station a few squares south
00:24:14  <Elukka> curiously, i've never known that cities have some sort of functional center
00:25:07  *** tokai|ni [] has joined #openttd
00:25:36  <kingj>
00:25:40  <Rubidium> the tile just south of the town flag should always be a road tile and it should be connected to the rest of the town otherwise it will not (re)grow
00:26:46  <kingj> Is that the one with the left hand one way signal? (See pic)
00:26:58  <Rubidium> yes
00:27:09  <kingj> Hmm
00:29:29  <kingj> Ok, I shifted the bridges one unit to the right, as soon as I did that the town built a bit of road there
00:29:43  <kingj> Now I just need to move my HQ to reconnect that road to the city
00:30:09  <el_en> wtf, if what Rubidium just said is true, that's like tip of the decade.
00:30:39  <kingj> And seems to be working - already increased by 1000 pop
00:30:54  <kingj> (Slow growth, 1 in 1 city, 10x multiplyer)
00:31:14  *** Frostregen [] has joined #openttd
00:32:48  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit []
00:33:12  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
00:34:17  <db48x> yea
00:34:23  <db48x> it shouldn't let you delete that road
00:34:33  <db48x> or it should move the city center
00:35:32  <db48x> that would actually be pretty cool to see
00:35:47  <db48x> you could herd the cities to where you need them
00:37:09  <kingj> Yep, town is growing rather explosively. I'm sure my transport network will fall apart shortly
00:37:11  <kingj> ;)
00:39:28  * db48x sighs
00:39:52  <db48x> path-based signals take some getting used to
00:40:34  <kingj> I remember them ages ago from when TTDPatch breifly had them, but their use escapes me now
00:40:52  <db48x> crashed some trains and clogged my roundabout
00:40:58  <kingj> Haha, of all the chances - I have both runways of an intercontinental airport blocked by crashed aircraft
00:41:06  <db48x> heh
00:41:40  <kingj> However, it dosen't seem to stop planes from landing on one of the runways!
00:42:20  *** lhrios [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:42:23  *** Vikthor [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:46:41  <db48x> nothing like a slightly short runway to get the blood flowing
00:48:15  <kingj> It seems the pilot would rather fly through the wreck
00:52:57  *** Phoenix_the_II [] has joined #openttd
00:53:12  <kingj> Hmm, PBS isn't actually that complicated
00:53:55  <kingj> Replace one way entry signals with a one-way PBS, replace two way station platform signals with a regular PBS facing towards the incoming train
00:54:00  <Elukka> in my experience, PBS is easier
00:54:47  <Elukka> if you're all used to normal and pre-signals, it might take a while to get used to pbs
00:55:00  <Elukka> but in the end i find it simpler and easier
00:55:03  <Elukka> besides working better
00:57:13  *** Fuco [] has quit [Quit: Quit]
01:00:00  *** KritiK [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
01:00:50  *** davis- [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:03:30  *** stillunknown [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:17:15  <kingj> Converting my network to PBS is going to take a while
01:18:13  <Aali> why would you convert your network to PBS?
01:18:26  <Aali> only use PBS where it's actually better
01:19:07  <kingj> Conversion has also just caused 728 deaths. Oops
01:19:13  <Elukka> where isnt it better or at least equal?
01:19:44  <Nite_Owl> lots of PBS also increases CPU load
01:19:53  <kingj> I like using it on non-roro terminus stations, so in some cases you can have trains entering and leaving
01:20:20  <Elukka> havent thought of that... i've never had a network big enough to cause any slowdown
01:23:26  <kingj> Where do you use them?
01:23:48  *** Brianetta [] has quit [Quit: TschÌß]
01:24:25  <kingj> Ok, this isn't right, it seems to reserve a path to a full platform?
01:24:36  <Aali> I use PBS where it increases performance :)
01:25:10  <Aali> the pathfinder decides which platform to use
01:25:37  <Aali> if the penalty isn't high enough for the occupied platform, it will try to reserve it
01:25:49  <kingj> I had all 4 platforms, each one with a two-way PBS at the front full. A train entered the one way PBS into the points to the 4 platforms and just went straight ahead
01:26:15  <Nite_Owl> it is best to wait until your junction is clear before converting it to PBS
01:27:15  <Aali> kingj: err, you have two-ways in front of the platforms?
01:27:21  <Aali> pointing which way?
01:27:48  <kingj> As you are coming into the platform, you can see the light
01:27:57  <Aali> thats bad
01:28:35  <kingj> They should be facing the other way?
01:28:37  <Aali> a PBS signal facing towards you is a safe waiting position
01:28:45  <Aali> do you want trains to wait there?
01:28:49  <kingj> Ah, no
01:30:23  <kingj> Seems to work ok now
01:30:32  <kingj> Do I need a one-way PBS on the entry to the points?
01:30:44  <kingj> Or will a regular signal (presignal?) suffice?
01:30:47  <Aali> the what?
01:31:34  <Aali> if you want PBS functionality, you should use a PBS signal
01:31:47  <Aali> presignals dont really combine well with PBS
01:32:12  <Aali> but you dont really need them in a PBS construct anyway
01:33:37  <kingj> Ok, in the entry to a non-roro station (just a terminus) do I need a one-way PBS signal for the line coming into the points that go to platforms, or should I just use a regular signal?
01:38:53  <Aali> you only need one PBS signal, on the tile before trains choose a platform
01:40:13  <kingj> A single PBS signal on the entry path to the points then, thanks
01:40:40  <kingj> Seems to work just as well with a normal signal on the entry path though
01:41:20  <Aali> also note that you don't really need the two-way PBS signals unless you really want trains to leave the platform without having to reserve a path all the way to the exit
01:44:20  <kingj>
01:45:28  <Aali> you should make it PBS
01:45:30  <thingwath> this is the one which really should be one-way PBS :)
01:46:19  <Aali> not sure if you have to with other PBS signals in the segment (the whole signal block gets "promoted" to a PBS block that way)
01:47:22  <Aali> but if you ever remove the other signals (you shouldn't in this case, they help efficiency with those accel tracks), it wont work, so just make it PBS :)
01:48:50  <kingj> Okay, i'll make it a one way PBS in the red circle
01:49:23  <kingj> I wish there was a nice wiki example for terminus PBS signaling, plenty of junction and two-way station examples
01:49:56  <Aali> PBS is easy once you get the hang of it though
01:50:15  <Aali> just remember, a signal pointing towards you is a safe waiting spot
01:50:19  <kingj> Yeah, but I think a lot of people would appreciate that example especially when 0.7.0 goes live
01:51:11  <Aali> then why don't you write it? :)
01:51:33  <thingwath> hm, I always thought that PBS is more intuitive, at least because it works much more like a real railway signals
01:52:04  <kingj> I won't write it because i'll most likely get it wrong ;)
01:52:07  <Aali> thingwath: most people dont know how real railway signals work :P
01:52:24  <kingj> And while it is more like real railway signals, i'm used to OTTD signals
01:53:21  *** Splex [~splex@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
01:53:28  *** Splex [~splex@] has joined #openttd
02:06:23  *** TinoM| [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
02:11:09  *** ecke [~ecke@] has joined #openttd
02:21:13  *** Elukka [] has quit []
02:24:46  *** fjb_ [] has joined #openttd
02:25:37  *** Phoenix_the_II [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:28:31  *** Phoenix_the_II [] has joined #openttd
02:28:32  *** fjb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:47:19  *** Zahl [] has quit [Quit: Rhabarberbarbarabarbarbarenbartbarbierbierbar]
02:56:45  *** Lakie [~Lakie@] has quit [Quit: Sleep.]
02:57:40  *** BFKeil [] has left #openttd []
03:01:52  *** SHRIKEE [] has quit [Quit: SHRIKEE]
03:03:07  *** fjb_ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:08:32  *** TinoDidriksen [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:12:20  *** TinoDidriksen [] has joined #openttd
03:22:52  *** NukeBuster [~wouter@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:23:49  *** Cachanilla [] has joined #openttd
03:37:32  <db48x> path-based signaling is pretty nice
03:38:04  <db48x> although it'd be nice if a broken-down train would relenquish it's reservation and reacquire it once it's started up again
03:38:40  *** TinoDidriksen [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:39:04  *** roboboy [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
03:42:39  *** TinoDidriksen [] has joined #openttd
03:48:58  *** Cachanilla [] has left #openttd []
03:49:47  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Sacro]
03:50:31  *** Phoenix_the_II [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:02:04  *** Phoenix_the_II [] has joined #openttd
04:02:41  *** Nite_Owl [] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon]
04:20:24  *** Dummstein [fractal@] has joined #openttd
04:21:28  *** Dummstein [fractal@] has quit []
04:34:32  *** michi_cc [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:38:49  *** roboboy [] has joined #openttd
04:40:28  *** glx [] has quit [Quit: bye]
05:02:38  *** ecke_ [~ecke@] has joined #openttd
05:02:38  *** ecke [~ecke@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
05:05:48  *** Frostregen [] has quit [Quit: und weg]
05:07:09  *** Phoenix_the_II [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:18:13  *** Phoenix_the_II [] has joined #openttd
05:30:09  *** DaleStan [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:37:47  *** DaleStan [] has joined #openttd
06:21:05  *** DaleStan [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:22:55  *** DaleStan [] has joined #openttd
06:56:54  *** DaleStan [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:57:16  *** DaleStan [] has joined #openttd
07:03:02  *** roboboy [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
07:08:52  *** Alberth [] has joined #openttd
07:27:27  *** roboboy [] has joined #openttd
08:31:26  *** roboboy [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
09:01:47  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
09:02:01  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
09:02:40  <Wolf01> hello
09:04:34  *** OsteHovel^EEE [] has joined #openttd
09:08:10  <OsteHovel^EEE> Hi all! Im awake.
09:09:46  <Wolf01> OMG he left Matrix
09:12:17  <Gekz> ,
09:13:49  <OsteHovel^EEE> "Make sure AIs can't call functions they shouldn't call." AI's gone more intelligent than humans?
09:16:16  <Gekz> lol
09:16:18  *** OsteHovel^EEE [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:18:03  *** OsteHovel^EEE [] has joined #openttd
09:20:18  *** OsteHovel_EEE [] has joined #openttd
09:21:20  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
09:26:53  *** OsteHovel^EEE [] has quit [Ping timeout: 484 seconds]
09:28:05  *** OsteHovel^EEE [] has joined #openttd
09:29:28  *** Roest [] has joined #openttd
09:29:49  <Roest> morning
09:30:27  <db48x> hello
09:30:37  *** OsteHovel_EEE [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:32:37  *** Mortomes [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
09:34:14  *** sigmund_ [] has joined #openttd
09:36:04  *** sigmund [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:36:47  *** OsteHovel^EEE [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:39:24  *** davis- [] has joined #openttd
09:44:27  *** TinoM [] has joined #openttd
09:47:42  *** michi_cc [] has joined #openttd
09:47:46  *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ
09:51:46  <Alberth> good morning all
09:52:01  <TrueBrain> morning Alberth
09:53:56  *** Zuu [] has joined #openttd
09:55:28  <Zuu> Hello is there some .bat hero here? Anyone know why the date string isn't inserted into the commands?
09:56:33  <Zuu> Or somone knowing how to execute commands like xcopy etc. from within a vbs script.. :s
10:07:57  <TrueBrain> a deep silence hits Zuu :)
10:08:03  <Zuu> Hehe :)
10:08:37  <TrueBrain> ins't str reserved somehow?
10:08:40  <TrueBrain> dunno, wild guess
10:08:58  <Zuu> don't think so, have failed with other variable names too :)
10:09:16  <Roest> my knowledge about that stuff is in deep freeze for like 15 years now
10:10:29  <Zuu> Might just make small delphi application if I can't get it to work :-)
10:13:21  <Zuu> And I am not sure yet if I can make windows-based copy tools to preverse the unix file attributes on an ext2 drive. (using the ext2 driver). Made an ext2 partion on an USB drive just to find out that Windows don't support mounting anything else than the first partion on USB-drives. (and my first partition is reiserfs, which of course don't work with ext2 driver)
10:13:51  <planetmaker> :P
10:14:03  <planetmaker> morning all :)
10:14:25  <Roest> lol reiserfs may kill your wife
10:14:27  <Alberth> good morning planetmaker
10:14:46  <Zuu> Roest: :p Good I don't have a wife then :)
10:14:56  <planetmaker> hello Alberth
10:15:47  <Roest> that was a wikipedia entry on a table comparing file systems, after reiser was convicted for killing his wife
10:16:15  <planetmaker> lol
10:16:59  <Eddi|zuHause> i once tried a reiserfs driver for windows, but it crashed and rebooted each time i tried to access the drive
10:17:23  <Zuu> I think I also tried with raiserfs on Windows with the same results.
10:17:36  <Zuu> Big blue screen if I recall correctly
10:24:26  *** bleepy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:24:37  *** bleepy [] has joined #openttd
10:29:25  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:29:43  *** Swallow [] has joined #openttd
10:30:25  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
10:40:00  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:41:30  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Sacro]
10:41:48  *** OsteHovel^EEE [] has joined #openttd
10:52:47  *** Roujin [] has joined #openttd
10:57:00  <OsteHovel^EEE> Is there a way to play on the map that is the title screen?
10:58:10  <Roujin> yes
10:58:44  <Roujin> you'll see that the stuff you see on the title screen is pretty much faked though :P
10:59:00  <OsteHovel^EEE> i know it just going around
10:59:41  <Roujin> look for opntitle.dat and rename it to [something].sav (or rather copy it)
10:59:49  <OsteHovel^EEE> ok
11:00:14  <Roujin> the other way around, you can make yourself a new title screen ;)
11:00:17  <OsteHovel^EEE> cool
11:00:18  <OsteHovel^EEE> it worked
11:00:20  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
11:01:09  <OsteHovel^EEE> lol the title screen is a game that has been cheated on
11:03:50  *** Eddi|zuHause2 [] has joined #openttd
11:04:19  <Roujin> well of course..
11:04:26  *** Eddi|zuHause2 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:04:29  <Roujin> everything there is faked..
11:04:51  <planetmaker> basic c/c++ question. How do I obtain the length of a string?
11:05:09  <planetmaker> I have a const char *string
11:05:21  *** Eddi|zuHause2 [] has joined #openttd
11:05:31  <Roujin> count until you hit a zero?
11:05:38  <Rubidium> strlen
11:05:46  <planetmaker> there's no size_of() or something?
11:05:52  <planetmaker> thx, Rubidium :)
11:06:34  <Rubidium> sizeof(const char *string) == sizeof(pointer), which is usually 4 for 32 bits CPUs and 8 for 64 bits CPUs
11:06:50  <planetmaker> he :) I guess that's not what I want:)
11:07:21  <Roujin> strlen basically counts until it hits a zero, doesn't it?
11:08:42  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:08:46  <OsteHovel^EEE> i changed by title screen
11:08:53  <planetmaker> that'd be fine for me, Roujin :)
11:09:28  <Roujin> yup, just wanted to check..
11:14:24  <Roujin> Rubidium: I'm making a small patch to readd "space" to toggle content items in the content download list (since we now have the widget focus in trunk); should I keep RETURN (only used that as a substitute for space, before we had widget focus), or scrap it?
11:15:18  <OsteHovel^EEE> Keep Return
11:15:26  <OsteHovel^EEE> Keep Return and add Space,...
11:16:51  <Zuu> Roujin: What you can do is to remove the code I added that focuses the edit box by default, and then when one press some key, give the edit box focus.
11:17:20  <Zuu> Then you can use space for selecting items in the list without conflicting with editing the contents of the edit box.
11:17:36  *** bleepy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:18:04  <Zuu> For the filter sign list patch, I use that approach. Edit box is non-focused by default, and when one press the f-key the edit box get focused.
11:18:59  <Roujin> hmm, you have to click somewhere into the list anyway to get something selected
11:19:23  <Roujin> and then the box isn't focused anymore
11:19:37  <Zuu> Then I miss understood, though you would use the arrow keys to select things in the list and then space to select?
11:19:59  <planetmaker> Zuu: apropos filter signs: is there an update to that patch available?
11:20:17  <Zuu> planetmaker: Nope, not untill I get around to do it :)
11:20:25  <planetmaker> hehe :)
11:20:43  <Roujin> yes, but you have to click somewhere in the first place to get you started
11:20:59  <Roujin> when opening the window, nothing is selected
11:21:17  <Zuu> Using space in addition to enter I guess is for convinience as the space bar is usually better placed than enter on *most* keyboards (except mine and a few other who has both space and enter placed on a good location)
11:21:19  <planetmaker> It's just that I'm starting to miss it :)
11:21:22  <Roujin> well actually you can just scroll with arrow keys without clicking on anything before..
11:22:03  <Roujin> Zuu: it's also common for space to select something like checkboxes
11:22:18  <Zuu> Roujin: hmm, yes
11:22:32  <Roujin> while enter usually means "close the window with the ok button"
11:23:36  <planetmaker> Roujin: well, but I think in this case space is better used for selecting an item.
11:23:50  <planetmaker> The text box there - if you want to search, use clicking on it :)
11:24:06  <planetmaker> Tab could activate the textbox :P
11:24:19  <Zuu> If fastforward is moved to ctrl+Tab or something
11:24:42  <planetmaker> he, yeah. Forgot about that.
11:24:51  *** bleepy [] has joined #openttd
11:24:56  *** smeding [] has joined #openttd
11:25:43  <Zuu> Though moving it to ctrl+tab seams fine to me.
11:25:58  <Zuu> But there will be a storm of users claming otherwise :-p
11:26:15  <Roujin> okay I'll now do the following:
11:26:35  <Roujin> textbox not focussed by default;
11:26:58  <Roujin> so one can scroll through the list and press space without clicking somewhere before
11:27:31  <Roujin> and, pressing any other key than the scrolling and selecting ones will focus the textbox.
11:27:56  <Roujin> what do you think?
11:28:57  <planetmaker> good choice imo
11:29:10  <planetmaker> you anyway don't search for things starting with space, do you?
11:29:11  <Zuu> Sounds good, the only thing I am wondering about is making *any* other key focus the edit box. Could do for now. But at some point I guess it would be good if OpenTTD settle for a standard key for that.
11:29:13  *** Vikthor [] has joined #openttd
11:29:25  <Roest> i'm getting the feeling the more passenger i move the more it creates, i had such high hopes in the 747
11:29:38  <Zuu> Ctrl+L (like in a file/web browser) or f (for filter)
11:30:37  *** goodger [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:31:11  *** goodger [] has joined #openttd
11:31:35  <Zuu> Adding something like tab on window level, so that not individual windows need to implement it would of course be the best, but would need a definition of which widgets to cycle through.
11:31:57  <Zuu> But for now and Roujins work making any key focus the edit box I guess is sufficent.
11:32:39  *** fjb [] has joined #openttd
11:32:51  <fjb> Hello
11:35:14  <Alberth> Roest: one of the disadvantages of providing a good service :)
11:36:43  <Roest> well i'm playing with cargodest, it seems like it always adjusts to what i'm doing and it's alway several thousand passengers waiting
11:39:12  *** Mortomes [] has joined #openttd
11:40:06  *** |Jeroen| [] has joined #openttd
11:42:18  *** Gekz_ [] has joined #openttd
11:44:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> something is wrong... whenever i hit "submit" in the forum, my browser hangs
11:44:12  *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
11:44:58  <planetmaker> hey fjb
11:44:59  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: don't hit submit
11:45:10  <Ammler> what is the advantage of having squirrel outside of trunk?
11:45:11  *** roboboy [] has joined #openttd
11:45:26  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that is a wonderful solution ;)
11:46:02  *** Roujin [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009011913]]
11:46:06  <TrueBrain> Ammler: it might have to do that it has an other copyright owner .. dunno .. just an idea
11:47:22  <Ammler> TrueBrain: thanks, I am in trouble with pulling a hg repo :-)
11:48:04  <TrueBrain> create a patch for Mercurial to support externals
11:48:09  *** Gekz [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:48:31  *** Mucht [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:52:32  <Ammler> checkout/pull with make?
11:52:59  <Alberth> Ammler: I have a local hg trunk copy, and have manually added the /3rdparty/squirrel files in it (ie that part is a SVN working-copy). 'hg pull' works, except it doesn't update src/3rdparty/squirrel. To compensate, I manually run svn up src/3rdparty/squirrel just before the hg commit. It works, except that after a pull, I have to merge+commit
11:53:06  <Ammler> (or is that too late?)
11:54:03  <Alberth> Ammler: from that trunk copy, I make new clones for patch development
11:54:44  <Alberth> Ammler: with every build?
11:56:30  <Darkvater> TrueBrain: I just realised about the visualisation. I can do the video automatically, probably the text as well through embedded subtitles and some script
11:56:49  *** Swallow [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009011913]]
11:57:01  <TrueBrain> Darkvater: go for it! :p
11:57:08  <Darkvater> but music and the pre/post stuff will be really hard unless there is some text-line videoeditor out there which can render in alpha-mode and overlay different kinds of videos to encode
11:57:17  *** stillunknown [] has joined #openttd
11:57:27  <Darkvater> hi all btw
11:57:42  <TrueBrain> Darkvater: overlaying music is really easy: ffmpeg
11:57:44  <Eddi|zuHause> mencodeR?
11:57:45  *** Swallow [] has joined #openttd
11:57:54  <Darkvater> TrueBrain: eh..the video gets longer and longer :P
11:58:00  <TrueBrain> and concatting movies can most likely be done by ffmpeg too :)
11:58:13  <TrueBrain> Darkvater: so take a music file which is MUCH longer, or put it on a repeat
11:58:15  <Darkvater> Zuu: you need some way of showing the active window for shortcuts that are active in
11:58:25  <Darkvater> TrueBrain: not concatting; overlaying :)
11:58:54  <TrueBrain> well, ffmpeg (or mencoder, the latter uses ffmpeg) allows a lot :)
11:59:10  <Darkvater> I wonder :)
11:59:17  <Darkvater> I used adobe premiere last time
11:59:25  <Zuu> Darkvater: Yes, if one wants to expand the focus stuff more, then more visual feedback is needed.
11:59:43  <Darkvater> most likely only ffdshow people will be able to play the movie now though...
12:00:09  <Darkvater> Zuu: yep..I was thinking windows style :) some slightly differently hued caption bar on the inactive windows
12:00:23  <Darkvater> Zuu: with that your patch would be complete
12:00:36  <Darkvater> and I can bug someone else about implementing user-defined keyboard shortcts
12:01:16  <Zuu> Well, there is still the issue that if you close a window no other window overtake the global focus.
12:01:19  <planetmaker> There exists even some patch to do that... in a fashion; not sure about its quality
12:01:32  <Zuu> st256 made a patch for configurable hotkeys
12:01:43  <Zuu> it is in the development section of the forums.
12:01:48  <Darkvater> Zuu: are you sure? cause windows are "stacked" on top of eachother so the one on top is active
12:02:16  <Darkvater> Zuu: if I'm not mistaken it still works taht way. the keygrabber just iterates over your windows stack selecting the first window that handles that key
12:02:24  <Darkvater> fucking hell, what's up with this lag....
12:02:47  <Darkvater> oh, it's me :P
12:03:04  <Zuu> The reasons I have heard for why there is no way to close the topmost window is that OpenTTD don't keep the windows stored in complete up-to-down structure. But I could be wrong.
12:03:30  <Darkvater> unless it's been completely changed it was a Window*[] array
12:03:46  <Darkvater> the hotkey patch was something wrong ith
12:04:16  <Zuu> Iterating over windows is a pre-defined order if I recall correctly. That is why OSK behves slightly different when opened from the chat message window compared to opened from any other edit box window.
12:04:39  *** OsteHovel^EEE [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
12:04:41  <Zuu> But I need to go now and have a battle against Excel :)
12:04:46  <Darkvater> Zuu: pre-defined: top-down starting with most recenly opened, or activated one
12:04:50  <Darkvater> I think :P
12:07:37  <Alberth> Darkvater, Zuu: Source code suggests first the focussed window, then front-back for key handling
12:07:50  <Darkvater> isn't that what I said?
12:08:04  <Zuu> focused window is _focused_window pointer though
12:08:20  <Zuu> And is not always the top-most window.
12:08:29  <Darkvater> but that is, or then was top-most
12:09:05  <Alberth> Darkvater: As for Window*[], it is gone :) , we now have 2 lists, one from front to back, and one from back to front
12:09:12  <Darkvater> though I read some changelog that window handling was changed to allowmore than some fixed number
12:09:25  <Zuu> I'm gone now for a few hours...
12:09:30  <Darkvater> Alberth: array or linked list?
12:09:46  <Darkvater> seems wasteful ;)
12:09:48  <Darkvater> by Zuu
12:10:17  <Alberth> Darkvater: two lists:
12:10:54  <planetmaker> bye, Zuu
12:11:05  * Darkvater doesn't say anything
12:11:20  <Alberth> we probably need to back-to-front for removing 'old' ones
12:11:29  <Darkvater> (but he cannot see the advantages of double-bookkeeping whilc you can just iterate the other way)
12:12:10  <Eddi|zuHause> what speaks against using "std"-types like a queue for windows?
12:12:29  *** ecke [~ecke@] has joined #openttd
12:13:31  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: I once made a patch for that, but it was refused. One of the devs wanted to keep Window* for iterating iirc
12:13:37  *** ecke_ [~ecke@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:14:01  <Darkvater> TrueBrain: I'll see if it's possible to add moving watermarks to a video through ffmpeg..or at least a different png every frame
12:14:09  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: I *think* it was refused due to memory overhead. But not sure
12:14:38  <TrueBrain> Darkvater: if you like :) I mean, it might be nice and cool to have, but not really something we should have ;)
12:14:45  <Eddi|zuHause> what kind of significant memory overhead can one queue have over two lists?
12:15:08  <planetmaker> I've no idea :)
12:15:41  <Darkvater> TrueBrain: it's pretty useless withouth; any non-dev won't be able to tell tail from head of the video
12:16:02  <TrueBrain> Darkvater: I meant the movie in general :)
12:16:14  <TrueBrain> hmm .. forgetting a 'break' in a switch can have nasty side-effects  ...
12:16:53  <Alberth> To quote the reasons: "... this change does NOT: simplify code, make faster ot smaller binary, improve readability"
12:17:14  <Alberth> TrueBrain: yeah, like reaching the 'default: NOT_REACHED();' :)
12:18:21  <Darkvater> we should use BOOST_FOREACH ;)
12:18:33  <TrueBrain> Darkvater: I rather die :p
12:18:55  <Darkvater> haha
12:19:12  <Darkvater> I looked at the preprocessed output of the BOOST_FOREACH macro and it was 3000 lines of code
12:19:24  <Darkvater> eh, I mean a single line of code but 3000 characters long
12:19:27  <TrueBrain> it is insane to want to use that in C++ ....
12:20:06  <Eddi|zuHause> wtf?
12:20:13  <Darkvater> I'd much rather use BOOST_FOREACH(mylist::reference, list) than for(mylist::iterator i = list.begin(); i != list.end(); i++) {element &el = *i)
12:20:37  * Darkvater can't wait till C0x
12:21:03  * el_en wonders if it'll be C++0x or C++1x
12:21:16  <TrueBrain> Darkvater: if that was all it does ... you could write your own macro for that to ;)
12:21:33  <Darkvater> TrueBrain: but it's smarter :)
12:21:36  <TrueBrain> Darkvater: the BOOST framework is nice .. but their templates are WAY too deep .......
12:21:47  <Darkvater> it can handle fixed arrays, etc.
12:21:56  <Darkvater> TrueBrain: defintely agree
12:22:00  <TrueBrain> so one function to rule them all ;)
12:22:13  <Darkvater> some idiot at work decided to boost the whole application while I was porting it to the GPU
12:22:14  <TrueBrain> I rather have 10 functions to rule a few of them :p
12:22:17  *** Zahl [] has joined #openttd
12:22:30  <Darkvater> had to transcode all 'em fcking boost functions to get it to work
12:22:48  <Darkvater> I hate, but admire boost :)
12:23:06  <TrueBrain> the idea is nice
12:23:16  <Darkvater> eey
12:23:20  <Darkvater> [alton]cnicol1: ./ffmpeg -i ~/groupjast/secondlife/SL8/SL8/SL8.mpg
12:23:20  <Darkvater> > -vhook 'vhook/ -f
12:23:20  <Darkvater> > ~/groupjast/secondlife/SL8/SL8/SL8.eyetest.mpg' -an SL8.merged.mpg
12:23:29  <Darkvater> it seems it's possible :)
12:23:36  <TrueBrain> so go for it :)
12:23:41  <Darkvater> I think
12:23:59  <Darkvater> no time atm
12:24:05  <Darkvater> todo.push_back(video);
12:24:13  <TrueBrain> you use a fifo for that?
12:24:21  <TrueBrain> sounds like terrible way of doing things. ...
12:25:00  <Darkvater> this way I only see the first task and not get depressed by everything that's behind
12:25:07  <Darkvater> my .size() function is private :P
12:25:16  <TrueBrain> other queues have a top() and peek() too you know ;)
12:25:25  <Darkvater> 'tis a custom fifo
12:25:33  <TrueBrain> without priorities? :)
12:25:38  <TrueBrain> so random orderning :p
12:25:38  <Darkvater> yes
12:25:53  <TrueBrain> oh well, I guess we can use an other Bjarni in this project :p
12:25:57  <TrueBrain> (oh, that is nasty :p)
12:26:04  * TrueBrain hugs Darkvater :p
12:26:11  <Darkvater> *g*
12:26:44  <Darkvater> << we should make a movie of this :)
12:27:03  *** frosch123 [] has joined #openttd
12:27:12  <TrueBrain> Darkvater: yup, we could :)
12:27:26  <TrueBrain> start collecting the pngs :p
12:28:08  *** Mucht [] has joined #openttd
12:28:18  * Darkvater assigns Mucht to the task
12:28:29  <Darkvater> fear my @
12:28:34  <Darkvater> ^_^'
12:29:16  <Darkvater> kkies, be back soon :)
12:37:39  <TrueBrain> how do you call a collection of encoders and decoders?
12:38:14  *** tkjacobsen [] has joined #openttd
12:38:19  *** davis_ [] has joined #openttd
12:39:40  *** GoneWacko [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:39:56  <Alberth> codecs?
12:40:12  <True