Config
Log for #openttd on 11th March 2009:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:11  <haclet> Run svnup.sh and make clean && ./configure && make --- error.
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00:00:33  <Yexo> ./configure is not needed after make clean, but doesn't matter either
00:00:59  <haclet> checking makedepend... makedepend
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00:04:09  <Yexo> haclet: I have no idea what could cause/solve that error.
00:04:18  <Yexo> maybe 'touch src/openttd.h' works?
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00:08:02  <haclet> Yexo: Wait - think I fix it ...
00:08:44  <haclet> Let you know soon - compilation in progress - no errors, console_cmd.cpp compiled already, soon we will see.... Finished
00:09:03  <haclet> Yexo: is working now - compilation sucessfull.
00:09:55  <haclet> Ok - don't know what's happen and etc.
00:10:21  <haclet> But I tried run again svnup.sh - And got some svn error about directory: src/3rdparty/squirrel
00:10:37  <haclet> I removed that directory from my version, and again run svnup.sh,
00:11:07  <haclet> configure, and helped - openttd has been compiled without any problems
00:11:13  <haclet> Yexo: Thx for help.
00:11:27  <Yexo> no problem, good to know it's working again
00:12:13  <haclet> It's to late for me to play, soon I will try find some time to relax :)
00:12:22  <haclet> Yexo: See you later.
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01:40:36  <Belugas> mmh
01:40:40  <Belugas> deserted channel
01:40:45  <Belugas> all is quiet
01:41:06  * MrFrans gobbles
01:45:28  <Belugas> that's in the dictionnary??
01:48:11  <athanasios> my eyes are heavy...
01:50:35  <Belugas> put some helium in them
01:52:49  <athanasios> eyelids are better, will go to sleep a few minutes later.
01:53:11  <goodger> Belugas: yes, gobble means to eat messily and quickly; inserting helium in eyelids is not good ¬.¬
01:53:13  <athanasios> :-)
01:53:46  <Belugas> i see...
01:54:14  <Belugas> goodger, still have not yet found out any new emoticons ? ;)
01:54:41  <goodger> this one suffices for nearly all my messages ¬.¬
01:54:43  <athanasios> I cannot see anymore. Goodnight to all.
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01:56:35  <Belugas> right
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01:57:10  <goodger> bagel \o/
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02:01:02  <Belugas> bed!
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02:44:41  <db48x> hrm
02:45:02  <db48x> is openttd known to deadlock in pthread_join (called from SDL) on exit?
02:46:46  <Yexo> no
02:49:56  <db48x> somehow I doubted it
02:50:16  <db48x> but, somehow I doubt my patch to the terraforming code has much to do with it
02:51:31  <db48x> #0  0x00000035c2007cb5 in pthread_join (threadid=140220056156496, thread_return=0x0) at pthread_join.c:89
02:51:31  <db48x> #1  0x0000003f79a1116e in SDL_WaitThread (thread=0x2246da0, status=0x0) at src/thread/SDL_thread.c:270
02:51:31  <db48x> #2  0x0000003f79a08daa in SDL_AudioQuit () at src/audio/SDL_audio.c:629
02:51:31  <db48x> #3  0x0000003f79a082bd in SDL_QuitSubSystem (flags=16) at src/SDL.c:196
02:51:31  <db48x> #4  0x00000000005a3359 in SoundDriver_SDL::Stop ()
02:51:33  <db48x> #5  0x0000000000546018 in ttd_main ()
02:53:15  <db48x> hmm
02:53:23  <db48x> it only seems to happen when I have Gizmo running
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05:55:23  <el_en> hej på alla
05:55:48  <Forked> greetings
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07:32:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15668 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: a few typos.
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07:32:51  <Celestar> \o
07:32:53  <Forked> heya Celestar
07:33:05  <Celestar> how's life Forked?
07:33:48  <Forked> do you want a detailed explanation or should I go with the short version? =p
07:33:57  <Celestar> short version for the time being?
07:34:05  <Forked> pretty good, just a bit sleepy
07:34:17  <Celestar> good :P
07:35:03  <petern> Celestar: cargodest
07:35:08  <petern> :p
07:35:39  <Forked> gf is going out of town today to meet the guy we rented the last apartment from.. he owes us quite alot of money and is being difficult. It's a last-attempt-before-court thing. Both sides present their side and some dude makes a decision
07:36:10  <Celestar> petern: yes.
07:36:23  <Celestar> petern: I'll attempt a sync with trunk toda y;)
07:36:28  <petern> \o/
07:36:32  <Forked> \o/ indeed. :D
07:36:51  <Yexo> good luck with that :)
07:37:04  <Celestar> I said: attempt :P
07:37:09  <Celestar> not "do"
07:37:45  <Celestar> writing a dissertation sucks, you know that? ...
07:38:33  <Celestar> note to self: don't upgrade a working XP system. had a fine system, did an online upgrade, now it doesn't boot O_o
07:39:00  <Celestar> @logs
07:39:16  <Celestar> er .. wtf is BaNaNas?
07:39:25  <Noldo> :D
07:39:42  <Yexo> Celestar: the content server
07:39:46  <Yexo> bananas.openttd.org
07:42:28  <Celestar> hr. nice :D
07:43:35  <Noldo> Celestar: you don't happen to know how the old terrain generator uses the sprites it uses?
07:43:45  <Celestar> Noldo: elaborate?
07:44:52  <Noldo> most of them are only blue and pink in color and I don't get what the different colors mean
07:57:47  <petern> q
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08:03:22  <petern> colour is height
08:13:47  <petern> blue'll be 0, pink'll be 1, etc (iirc)
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08:15:28  <Noldo> there were mountains made of shades of gray that were easy to understands
08:16:07  <Noldo> the pink seemed odd because it had zero blue and green
08:16:29  <Noldo> so does it take the height from only the red value
08:18:01  <Yexo> Noldo: doesn't it just take the color index without looking at the actual color?
08:26:32  <petern> er
08:26:40  <petern> yes, it's colour index, not colour value
08:27:13  <Noldo> aha, then it's not supricing I didn't understand it at all :D
08:27:48  <Yexo> btw, does the original map generator work for you with opengfx?
08:30:01  <petern> no :)
08:36:27  <petern> seems to end up with invalid tile types...
08:37:19  <Yexo> indeed, but I have no idea how that can happen
08:39:00  <petern> there's no range limits
08:41:39  <dihedral> hello
08:41:42  <dihedral> uh - a Celestar
08:41:44  <dihedral> :-)
08:41:49  <Celestar> aye :P
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08:43:09  <petern> basically if the map templates are invalid they shouldn't be used :)
08:44:39  <Yexo> petern: and how would you determine if the map templates are invalid?
08:44:58  <petern> i'm trying to figure that out :p
08:45:24  <Yexo> hehe :)
08:45:24  <petern> for instance, if the delta between adjacent points is greater than 1, it's invalid
08:45:53  <Yexo> that's possible the case for opengfx, iirc they just used random noise for those templates
08:47:48  <petern> ok
08:48:08  <petern> sprites 52 to 88 of opengfxir.pcx, right?
08:48:12  <petern> those are most definitely invalid :D
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08:49:19  <petern> maybe
08:50:08  <petern> i have an idea
08:50:12  <petern> but i'm going to work :o
08:50:30  <dihedral> have a nice day petern
09:06:56  <petern> thanks
09:06:57  <petern> anyway
09:07:23  <petern> if the top left corner (i.e. the first byte of data) is not 0 (or possibly 1), it must be invalid...
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09:20:20  <planetmaker> good morning
09:21:22  <dihedral> oi
09:21:25  <Yexo> morning planetmaker
09:21:32  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15669 /trunk/src/ (misc_gui.cpp network/network_gui.cpp window.cpp): -Change: Key presses that are not handles by an input box are no longer marked as handled but given to other OnKeyPress handlers. This makes the global shortcuts like F1 work again when an input box is open.
09:21:41  <planetmaker> :) Hey
09:22:07  <dihedral> nice :-)
09:22:11  <planetmaker> jo
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09:22:38  <dihedral> hehe
09:22:46  <dihedral> and who is the Guest op?
09:23:17  <Yexo> I have no idea
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09:24:37  <planetmaker> ...nl
09:24:43  <planetmaker> :P
09:25:43  <dihedral> yeah ^^
09:26:17  <Yexo> that doesn't really tell us who it is, does it?
09:26:27  <planetmaker> nope :P
09:26:41  <Forked> @logs
09:26:44  <Forked> hm, guess not
09:26:46  <Forked> @log
09:26:48  <Forked> :)
09:26:51  <planetmaker> !logs
09:26:53  <dihedral> !logs
09:26:55  <dihedral> ^^
09:26:56  <Forked> doh
09:26:57  <planetmaker> :D
09:27:00  <dihedral> where is the spbot?
09:27:01  <Forked> nothing there either? =p
09:27:04  <taisteluorava> !logs
09:27:15  <dihedral> hmmm
09:27:19  <planetmaker> slow, taisteluorava ;)
09:27:28  <taisteluorava> :)
09:27:43  <Yexo> http://thegrebs.com/irc/openttd-2009.html <- that page has logs
09:27:51  <dihedral> not just slow - his reading lags mor than his response time ^^
09:28:01  <dihedral> Yexo: i love thegrebs ;-)
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09:30:04  <DASPRiD> dihedral, warum wedelt der hund mit dem schwanz? -- weil der hund schlauer ist, als der schwanz. wÀre der schwanz schlauer als der hund, wÌrder er mit dem hund wedeln.
09:30:15  <Forked> bah, their search function is borked
09:30:22  <Yexo> ah, Guest1044 is Darkvater
09:31:27  <dihedral> DASPRiD: LOL
09:31:45  <dihedral> Darkvater: just read your mail - that is awesome
09:32:07  <dihedral> me likies
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09:37:39  <petern> it was obviously darkvater from the /whois...
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10:30:01  <racetrack> I've just tried to bulldoze a bridge in some town near the bottom of the map, and I get "can't clear this area, owned by Melow". Melow happens to be the town closest to the north east of the map, a billion miles away. is that a bug or something that makes sense if you look at it from the right angle?
10:30:20  <racetrack> I don't care, doesn't bother me in the slightest, but I'll file a bug if its actually a bug
10:31:16  <dihedral> and there is no company with that name?
10:31:35  <racetrack> nope, I'm the only player
10:32:02  <dihedral> and there was no company by that name some time before
10:32:09  <racetrack> nope, it was always just me
10:32:26  <dihedral> what version of OpenTTD are you playing?
10:32:38  <racetrack> 0.7.0-beta2
10:32:57  <racetrack> oh also info tool on that square says its owned by the town the bridge is actually in
10:33:23  <dihedral> then make a bug report and dont forget to upload your savegame ;-)
10:33:43  <racetrack> excellent. thanks for confirming :)
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10:40:49  <racetrack> interesting, its actually any bridge on the map .. well, from testing a few dozen
10:40:55  <racetrack> more to add to the report, heh
10:44:32  <dihedral> ... are you playing a patched game?
10:44:44  <Yexo> dihedral: no, it's a problem in trunk
10:44:53  <dihedral> ah - perfect :-)
10:45:01  <dihedral> just wanted to rule that out
10:45:08  <racetrack> ahh
10:45:18  <racetrack> Yexo: so its a known issue? should I bother with a report then?
10:45:18  <Yexo> another problem introduced in r15601
10:45:33  <Yexo> racetrack: it's known since you reported it here :)
10:45:36  <dihedral> @openttd commit 15601
10:45:36  <DorpsGek> dihedral: Commit by rubidium :: r15601 /trunk (19 files in 4 dirs) (2009-03-02 22:57:47 UTC)
10:45:37  <DorpsGek> dihedral: -Fix [FS#2615]: bridges/tunnels don't store tram owner making it possible to remove someone's tram tracks.
10:45:38  <DorpsGek> dihedral: -Feature: allow building road stops on road/tram tracks of competitors.
10:45:55  <dihedral> :-)
10:46:15  <Rubidium> that again shows how well the nightlies are tested and how much the lack of bug reports for them doesn't tell it's stable AT ALL
10:46:29  <dihedral> yes
10:46:55  <dihedral> but then the past
10:47:06  <dihedral> eh...
10:47:10  <dihedral> forget it
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10:48:08  <racetrack> well it got caught in a beta, thats what betas are for, right?
10:48:12  <racetrack> :)
10:48:26  <Rubidium> very true
10:49:03  <Rubidium> but there's lots of people saying that the stable is more buggy than the nightlies and this just proves that the lack of bugreports for the nightlies doesn't mean it isn't bug free
10:50:05  <racetrack> yeah .. many less people looking at nightlies I expect.
10:51:34  <Rubidium> there's on average 300 nightly downloads a day
10:51:46  <Rubidium> that excludes everyone that build it themselves though
10:52:12  <Rubidium> and 10 000 beta1 downloads
10:52:27  <Rubidium> over a period of a bit more than 2 weeks
10:52:41  <petern> heh
10:52:42  <Rubidium> @calc 10000/22
10:52:42  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 454.545454545
10:52:59  <racetrack> hmm not so far apart
10:53:13  <petern> 22 is over 3 weeks
10:54:26  <Rubidium> stupid star wars character
10:56:25  <petern> ?
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10:57:47  <Rubidium> petern: Obi-Wan Kenobi
10:57:51  <petern> oh
10:58:55  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15670 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r15601): The owner of both the road and of the tram tracks was checked, but not the owner of the road itself.
10:58:59  <Yexo> racetrack: problem fixed ^^
10:59:23  <Yexo>  but not the owner of the road itself. <-- s/road/bridge/ :p
11:00:40  <petern> Yexo, checking for invalid template sprites doesn't help either
11:00:59  <petern> you end up with a map that is all water
11:01:17  <Yexo> petern: then we'll follow Rubidiums advice: just close all reports as "broken base graphics"
11:01:17  <racetrack> owned by Treborough
11:01:19  <racetrack> fix looks good
11:01:24  <racetrack> Yexo: good stuff, thanks :)
11:01:26  <petern> which is okay in the scenario editor but as there are no towns it stops the game :/
11:04:16  <Yexo> petern: Can you reliable detect invalid template sprites?
11:04:34  <Yexo> if so, maybe you can disable the original map generator in those cases
11:05:22  <petern> hmm
11:05:26  <petern> possible
11:05:45  <petern> basically a template must not have a value greater than 1 on any edge
11:06:00  <petern> and inside that it must not a delta greater than 1
11:06:04  <petern> +have
11:06:20  <petern> checking the first data point is enough to check opengfx
11:06:54  <petern> otoh, a complete check only has to be done for one sprite -- if you're doing the templates properly you'll be doing them all
11:07:50  <petern> or you can loop them all :D
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11:30:22  <planetmaker> [11:46]	<Rubidium>	that again shows how well the nightlies are tested and how much the lack of bug reports for them doesn't tell it's stable AT ALL <--- well, yeah :) But mostly playing with always the latest nightly, those bugs don't persist normally too long :) You're all usually doing a great job in being quick about them :)
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11:55:34  <Celestar> wth is going on in stuttgart O_o
11:55:48  <petern> well
11:55:59  <petern> gunmen?
11:56:00  <petern> hmm
11:56:05  <petern> copying america, i dunno
11:56:19  <Celestar> yeah. the parents owned (legally) no less than 18 fireamrs
11:56:23  <Forked> only in america (or germany..)
11:56:23  <Celestar> arms ..
11:56:26  <petern> as you do
11:56:44  <Celestar> then again the media reports that he was armed with "a machine gun"
11:56:59  <Forked> I bet they will blame Grand Theft Auto
11:57:01  <Celestar> either the journos have no idea or have never seen a machine gun.
11:57:31  <Celestar> and I somehow don't think that owning a machine gun privately is "legal" in germany
11:57:33  <petern> well
11:57:35  <petern> i have no idea
11:57:39  <petern> a gun is a gun
11:57:39  <Celestar> at least, I hope so :P
11:57:43  <petern> i dunno what is what sort
11:58:06  * Celestar slaps petern with a GAU-8
11:58:11  <petern> a what?
11:58:29  <Celestar> a gun.
11:58:31  <Celestar> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GAU-8_meets_VW_Type_1.jpg
11:58:35  <petern> right
11:58:36  <petern> yup
12:00:39  <Celestar> small one
12:00:55  <Celestar> 45 kN recoil force :P
12:01:37  <Rubidium> is that useful to remove dental plaque?
12:01:39  <petern> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/M2_machine_gun.jpg
12:01:39  <petern> hehe
12:01:57  <petern> do you think the spent shells will fade out after a while to improve the frame rate?
12:01:57  <Celestar> Rubidium: I GUESS it is useful to remove *
12:03:48  <Celestar> at 3900rpm, I think you need that, yes :P
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12:05:54  <Rubidium> "the memory usage grows really fast when using my M2 machine gun"
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12:17:03  <Yexo> Rubidium: it's indeed a few percent faster
12:18:27  <petern> at removing dental plaque?
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12:29:39  <OsteHovel^PDA> how to get make to be verbose about the command it executes?
12:37:02  <Yexo> OsteHovel^PDA: during compile time? Or do you want runtime debug output?
12:37:12  * Yexo can't read
12:37:23  <Yexo> use 'make VERBOSE=1'
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12:51:42  <OsteHovel^PDA> :P
12:52:18  <OsteHovel^PDA> i got an error while linking openttd with mingw32 on linux, i will get some more info for your guys
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12:56:45  <petern> our guys!
12:57:59  <Ammler> your slaves :P
12:58:50  <OsteHovel^PDA> [SRC] Linking openttd.exe
12:59:00  <OsteHovel^PDA> lol
12:59:16  <petern> "lol" ?
12:59:34  <petern> is that your error?
12:59:40  <OsteHovel^PDA> nope
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12:59:42  <petern> 'cos it doesn't seem much of an error :p
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12:59:47  <OsteHovel^PDA> i was going to paste the whole text
13:00:03  <petern> generally the first bit is enough
13:00:08  <OsteHovel^PDA> but this sucky irc client for pocketpc cant paste multiline messages
13:00:09  <petern> and if it's long, use paste.openttd.org
13:00:17  <OsteHovel^PDA> settings.o:settings.cpp:(.rdata+0x2db8): undefined reference to `__display_hz'
13:00:25  <OsteHovel^PDA> it was just 4-5 lines
13:00:47  <petern> sounds like it's confused as to which OS it's compiling for
13:01:38  <petern> but i've never used mingw32, so i have no idea
13:01:58  <glx> OsteHovel^PDA: you're lucky the paste failed ;)
13:02:48  <glx> __display_hz is a win32 only setting
13:03:10  <glx> used for full screen
13:05:02  <Rubidium> glx: __display_hz or _display_hz ?
13:07:15  <glx> well _display_hz in the code
13:08:10  <glx> and it's defined in win32_v.cpp
13:10:29  <OsteHovel^PDA> im compiling for windows on linux using a gcc for mingw(own built)
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13:11:21  <glx> cross compilation works well for openttd
13:12:05  <OsteHovel^PDA> i just pasted the message at paste.openttd.org
13:12:15  <glx> paste the url then :)
13:12:19  <petern> yeah, you need to provide the link :)
13:13:58  <glx> "make VERBOSE:=1" and paste the link line
13:14:17  <glx> because it seems it miss win32 specific files
13:14:34  <Rubidium> building a dedicated windows build?
13:14:59  <glx> maybe, I never tried that
13:15:45  * glx tries
13:16:58  <OsteHovel^PDA> ok
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13:17:51  <OsteHovel^PDA> i build dedicated becouse you dont need display drivers i dont think i have the headers
13:19:15  <glx> you have them else win32.cpp can't compile ;)
13:20:01  <glx> GDI (the win32 video driver) is part of win32 API
13:20:18  <glx> but indeed win32 dedicated fails to link :)
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13:21:43  <OsteHovel^PDA> Here: logfile: http://ostsoft.net/~ostehovel/files/out.txt
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13:27:49  * OsteHovel^PDA have low battery on pda...(currently using it for irc dosent have a pc near...)
13:28:11  <Forked> so if I write.. I use even more of mentioned battery?
13:28:13  <Forked> oops.. :)
13:30:05  <OsteHovel^PDA> nope
13:30:22  <OsteHovel^PDA> just warning everybody that if i get timeout im out of battery
13:30:22  <OsteHovel^PDA> :P
13:30:53  <OsteHovel^PDA> do not be afraid of typing....
13:31:19  <glx> OsteHovel^PDA: http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/openttd/win32_dedi.diff <-- easy to fix ;)
13:32:32  <OsteHovel^PDA> It is a bug in openttd?
13:32:46  <glx> not really a bug
13:33:31  <glx> just an unusual way to build win32 binary
13:34:26  <OsteHovel^PDA> i do just build the windows version for my friends
13:34:26  <OsteHovel^PDA> :P
13:34:28  <glx> on windows a dedicated only build is usually not needed
13:34:49  <OsteHovel^PDA> true
13:34:50  <glx> as video 'driver' is part of windows headers
13:35:11  <glx> so there's no needt to not include them
13:35:13  <OsteHovel^PDA> i just types --enable-dedicated becouse i dident knew if i had any display drivers i was just gonna test if my newly compiled gcc worked
13:35:26  <glx> and anyway a full build can be started as dedicated
13:35:28  <OsteHovel^PDA> but now i know about that ...
13:36:07  <glx> but if someone wants a dedicated only windows build it should work ;)
13:37:15  <glx> (smaller exe)
13:37:31  <OsteHovel^PDA> hehe
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13:41:57  <OsteHovel^EEE> My pda got no battery left 2 meters from my door
13:41:58  <OsteHovel^EEE> :P
13:42:07  <pavel1269> hi
13:42:18  <OsteHovel^EEE> Can you send me the patch link again GLX?
13:42:29  <OsteHovel^EEE> correction from GLX to glx :P
13:42:37  <glx> OsteHovel^PDA: http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/openttd/win32_dedi.diff
13:42:41  <OsteHovel^EEE> thanks
13:42:41  <glx> and both hl me :)
13:42:52  <OsteHovel^EEE> ok
13:43:08  <OsteHovel^EEE> what shoud i do without you...
13:45:04  <OsteHovel^EEE> distcc is genius... then i can build openttd/other apps much faster than just on a single pc
13:45:33  <OsteHovel^EEE> i have 5pc's (all are sucky specs) but together with distcc i get not so bad speed...
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13:48:57  <OsteHovel^EEE> Now i just need to install/compile zlib, png, sdl, freetype for windows/mingw
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13:49:57  <planetmaker> you don't need sdl, if you compile for win.
13:50:27  <OsteHovel^EEE> i know i can use gdi :P i just need it to compare my compile times to my other friends msvc (he is using a quad core...)
13:51:17  <OsteHovel^EEE> he is compiling gdi+sdl :P
13:51:18  <planetmaker> OsteHovel^EEE: win users may correct me, but afaik sdl is guarded anyway be #ifndef Win32 or so
13:51:23  <OsteHovel^EEE> ?
13:51:33  <planetmaker> sdl part isn't compiled, if win32 is defined.
13:51:33  <glx> sdl is not enabled in msvc builds
13:51:40  <glx> planetmaker: no
13:51:45  <planetmaker> ok :) thx, glx
13:52:16  <glx> but you just need sdl headers (it's a "linked" at runtime)
13:52:37  <OsteHovel^EEE> if you need: --with-sdl at configure time and --host=i586-mingw32 arent you compiling both gdi and sdl :P
13:52:39  <OsteHovel^EEE> ?
13:52:44  <OsteHovel^EEE> *if you use...
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13:53:15  <glx> yes, but as I said only headers are needed for sdl
13:53:19  <OsteHovel^EEE> (now i just need to test my newly build gdi windows build at linux)
13:53:20  <OsteHovel^EEE> ok
13:53:30  <glx> the dll is loaded at runtime if present
13:53:55  <OsteHovel^EEE> if i did not suplly --enable-dedicated the build run widout errors
13:54:12  <glx> not surprising :)
13:54:26  <OsteHovel^EEE> Its working!
13:54:47  <OsteHovel^EEE> forgot to "strip" it so it 4.7 mb
13:58:28  <pavel1269> i cant compile anyone can help me?
13:59:02  <pavel1269> i linked all needed libs .... dx, zlib, freetype, icu, lubpng, usefull
13:59:13  <pavel1269> *includes and libs
13:59:43  <pavel1269> but when building debug ... in MSVS 9 ...
13:59:47  <pavel1269> 3>Linking...
13:59:47  <pavel1269> 3>   Creating library ..\objs\Win32\Debug\openttd.lib and object ..\objs\Win32\Debug\openttd.exp
13:59:47  <pavel1269> 3>fontcache.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol _FT_Set_Pixel_Sizes@12 referenced in function "void __fastcall InitFreeType(void)" (?InitFreeType@@YIXXZ)
13:59:47  <pavel1269> 3>fontcache.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol _FT_Init_FreeType@4 referenced in function "void __fastcall InitFreeType(void)" (?InitFreeType@@YIXXZ)
13:59:47  <pavel1269> 3>fontcache.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol _FT_Done_Face@4 referenced in function "void __fastcall LoadFreeTypeFont(char const *,struct FT_FaceRec_ * *,char const *)" (?LoadFreeTypeFont@@YIXPBDPAPAUFT_FaceRec_@@0@Z)
13:59:49  <pavel1269> 3>fontcache.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol _FT_Set_Charmap@8 referenced in function "void __fastcall LoadFreeTypeFont(char const *,struct FT_FaceRec_ * *,char const *)" (?LoadFreeTypeFont@@YIXPBDPAPAUFT_FaceRec_@@0@Z)
13:59:49  <pavel1269> 3>fontcache.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol _FT_Select_Charmap@8 referenced in function "void __fastcall LoadFreeTypeFont(char const *,struct FT_FaceRec_ * *,char const *)" (?LoadFreeTypeFont@@YIXPBDPAPAUFT_FaceRec_@@0@Z)
13:59:51  <pavel1269> 3>fontcache.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol _FT_New_Face@16 referenced in function "void __fastcall LoadFreeTypeFont(char const *,struct FT_FaceRec_ * *,char const *)" (?LoadFreeTypeFont@@YIXPBDPAPAUFT_FaceRec_@@0@Z)
13:59:51  <pavel1269> 3>fontcache.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol _FT_Done_FreeType@4 referenced in function "void __fastcall UninitFreeType(void)" (?UninitFreeType@@YIXXZ)
13:59:53  <pavel1269> 3>fontcache.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol _FT_Render_Glyph@8 referenced in function "struct Sprite const * __fastcall GetGlyph(enum FontSize,unsigned int)" (?GetGlyph@@YIPBUSprite@@W4FontSize@@I@Z)
13:59:53  <pavel1269> 3>fontcache.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol _FT_Load_Char@12 referenced in function "struct Sprite const * __fastcall GetGlyph(enum FontSize,unsigned int)" (?GetGlyph@@YIPBUSprite@@W4FontSize@@I@Z)
13:59:55  <pavel1269> 3>..\objs\Win32\Debug\openttd.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 9 unresolved externals
14:00:06  <glx> pavel1269: paste.openttd.org next time
14:00:10  <pavel1269> sry
14:00:24  <glx> do you have openttd-useful ?
14:01:03  <pavel1269> y
14:01:19  <pavel1269> isnt problem ... "\Debug\openttd.exe" ... those two slashes?
14:01:25  <glx> no
14:02:55  <glx> did you try a full rebuild?
14:04:43  <pavel1269> u mean clean and build?
14:05:04  <glx> or rebuild all yes
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14:09:26  <pavel1269> new error .)
14:09:28  <pavel1269> 4>d:\games\openttd\trunk\src\gfx.cpp(259) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'unicode/ubidi.h': No such file or directory
14:09:47  <glx> then openttd-useful is not installed correctly
14:10:01  <glx> did you set paths in MSVC?
14:10:53  <glx> or you don't use the latest version
14:11:49  <glx> (2.2)
14:18:35  <pavel1269> tools -> options -> project and soluzions -> VC++ directories ->library and dir ....
14:19:00  <glx> yes
14:20:08  <pavel1269> and this: http://binaries.openttd.org/extra/openttd-useful/2.2/openttd-useful-2.2-win.zip
14:20:23  <pavel1269> and win32 for me
14:20:43  <OsteHovel^EEE> My first install of linux with console over serial :P
14:20:46  <pavel1269> and only 4 libs ... same versions i have
14:21:21  <glx> includes are in shared/include
14:21:46  <glx> libs are in win32/library
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14:31:59  <OsteHovel^EEE> Debian was fast to install (using Netinstall)
14:32:45  <glx> only if you have fast network ;)
14:33:14  <OsteHovel^EEE> 1 gbit/s network :p but only 5mbit/s internet :P
14:33:20  <OsteHovel^EEE> it was faster to install than ubuntu
14:33:26  <Rubidium> even with average (Dutch) DSL it's faster than installing Windows
14:33:50  <OsteHovel^EEE> what is a avarage dutch DSL speed?
14:34:11  <DASPRiD> 6mbit or such
14:34:15  <OsteHovel^EEE> ok
14:34:15  <DASPRiD> nothgin fast
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14:35:05  <Sacro> Mbit surely?
14:35:05  <Rubidium> lets than 1 MB/s
14:35:23  <DASPRiD> Sacro, thats what of a friend of mine has (he's dutch)
14:36:15  <Sacro> I think you mean Mb rather than mb
14:36:21  <Sacro> they aren't the same
14:36:33  <Sacro> mb Mb mB and MB are all different
14:36:46  <petern> yeah, megabits vs michael blunck
14:36:52  <Sacro> quite
14:38:33  <OsteHovel^EEE> i have 5 Mbit/s (Teoritical: 625 KiloByte/s) downspeed and 1.8 Mbit/s (Teoritical: 225 KiloByte/s) upspeed:P
14:38:41  <DASPRiD> you forgot megabite
14:38:53  <DASPRiD> i have 32 mbit down, 2.5 mbit up
14:38:56  <Sacro> DASPRiD: no such thing
14:39:07  <Sacro> well, not in computing terms
14:39:17  <Sacro> perhaps in sandwich terms though...
14:39:26  <lolman> DASPRiD, surely you mean Megabyte?
14:39:38  <DASPRiD> lolman, nah, mega bite!
14:39:39  <DASPRiD> :P
14:40:07  <OsteHovel^EEE> Mega is written with a big letter M :p
14:40:08  <Sacro> lolman: i want a sammich :(
14:40:10  <DASPRiD> (actually, that sounds like a pokémon attack or such)
14:40:16  <lolman> Sacro, go to Benedicts then :P
14:40:19  <Sacro> I shall
14:40:25  <Sacro> meet me there?
14:40:27  * DASPRiD eats a snadwhich
14:40:30  <lolman> When?
14:40:51  <dihedral> DASPRiD, a what?
14:41:04  * lolman wonders what a snadwhich is
14:41:30  <OsteHovel^EEE> lol:P
14:41:35  <Sacro> lolman: just getting ready now so 10-15
14:41:36  <DASPRiD> dihedral, snadwhich, also known as sandwhich
14:41:40  <lolman> Alright
14:41:44  <DASPRiD> or was it sandwich
14:41:48  <OsteHovel^EEE> :P
14:41:49  <DASPRiD> cant remember >_>
14:41:52  <lolman> sandwich
14:42:00  <Sacro> mmmhm, hope they have chicken and bacon mayo
14:42:01  * OsteHovel^EEE sucks in english & norwegian grammar and spelling
14:42:30  <OsteHovel^EEE> when ostehovel has sudo apt-get on his pc he is feeling fine...
14:42:38  <glx> OsteHovel^EEE: try french grammar ;)
14:42:41  <OsteHovel^EEE> :P
14:42:45  <OsteHovel^EEE> hehe
14:42:50  <DASPRiD> when windows has sudo apt-get on it's pcs i'm feeling better
14:44:27  <OsteHovel^EEE> you can get  apt-get for windows using cygwin
14:44:28  <OsteHovel^EEE> :P
14:44:54  <DASPRiD> OsteHovel^EEE, but windows itself needs a packaging system
14:45:00  <OsteHovel^EEE> true
14:45:00  <OsteHovel^EEE> :p
14:45:01  <DASPRiD> like sudo apt-get install adobe-photoshop
14:45:09  <OsteHovel^EEE> apt-get sourcce adobe-photoshop
14:45:10  <OsteHovel^EEE> :P
14:45:13  <DASPRiD> hrhr
14:45:27  <DASPRiD> and then backports from linux for windows
14:45:33  <DASPRiD> apt-get install compiz
14:45:53  <lolman> DASPRiD, other than the fact that won't work, perhaps a good idea
14:46:05  <Sacro> apt-crack search photoshop
14:46:18  <glx> just use the gimp
14:46:36  <Sacro> for whipping?
14:46:45  <Sacro> or do you mean the GIMP
14:46:49  <Sacro> which is entirely different
14:47:20  <DASPRiD> or... apt-get install *game* --- Throug this operation, 95 petabyte of diskspace will be used.
14:47:45  <lolman> DASPRiD, insufficient disk space
14:47:52  <DASPRiD> lolman, lie :x
14:48:11  <OsteHovel^EEE> lol i have build gcc on windows using cygwin for target mingw :P lol the cygwin folder is now 2.78 gb :P (129 224 files and 6 462 folders)
14:48:37  <glx> why build gcc on windows?
14:48:44  <OsteHovel^EEE> becouse i use distcc
14:49:00  *** Sacro [~ben@static-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Sacro]
14:49:07  <OsteHovel^EEE> i want the power of my dual core to power the compillings i do for windows + linux
14:49:25  <DASPRiD> make -j5 ?
14:49:34  <lolman> DASPRiD, duals want -j3
14:49:44  <glx> -j4 is good too
14:49:44  <lolman> j5 would spawn too many threads, would bottleneck
14:49:52  <DASPRiD> lolman, nah, not too many
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14:50:02  <DASPRiD> i benchmarked -j4 up to -j12 on my quadcore
14:50:05  <DASPRiD> -j11 was best
14:50:22  <lolman> Makes no sense
14:50:29  <lolman> Anyway I'm outta here
14:50:30  <DASPRiD> but its fact :)
14:50:39  <OsteHovel^EEE> i use make -j16 :P
14:50:39  <glx> disk access are the problem on windows
14:50:42  <DASPRiD> cya lol
14:50:47  <DASPRiD> nah
14:50:52  <DASPRiD> windows is the problem on windows
14:51:15  <OsteHovel^EEE> becouse i have 2x 800 mhz linux + 2x 3ghz linux + 2x dualcore 2.5 ghz windows :P
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14:51:42  <glx> it's "because" ;)
14:52:49  <OsteHovel^EEE> i think i need a spelling program for xchat
14:53:00  <DASPRiD> xchat has automatic word replacement
14:53:12  <DASPRiD> so teh gets replaced with the for example
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14:54:08  <Belugas> it's "the" ...youhou!
15:00:45  <OsteHovel^EEE> i feel that linux handles alot of files much better than windows
15:00:52  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15671 /trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: bit of coding style/clarification.
15:02:54  <pavel1269> glx: so rebuilded again, this time with usefull inludes :-) .... and still same error as i mentioned at first
15:03:51  <glx> then check useful libs, because it works for me and compile farm
15:04:52  <pavel1269> so u ar sure, that problem is there?
15:04:56  <pavel1269> *u are
15:05:26  <Belugas> YOU
15:05:54  <pavel1269> oh, hello Belugas :-)
15:06:04  <glx> the problem is when linking with freetype
15:06:13  *** Klanticus [~quassel@143.107.231.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:06:26  <pavel1269> could i have outdated libs?
15:06:44  <glx> if you use 2.2 you're up to date
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15:07:01  <pavel1269> last i compiled 12689 i think :-P
15:07:02  <glx> but maybe you have older libs somewhere in msvc paths
15:07:22  <Rubidium> openttd requires some fancy linking stuff. When you've made the libraries without using the howto in the sources of openttd useful it's likely MSVC can't link them
15:07:25  <Belugas> hello pavel1269 :)
15:07:46  <glx> openttd-useful 2.2 is from last week
15:07:48  <pavel1269> Rubidium: i havent made any libraries :-)
15:08:45  <pavel1269> glx: i get all old stuff from my old pc (dx,freetype,libpng,zlib) and downloaded new usefull
15:09:11  <glx> then it's probably a conflict with the old libs
15:09:16  <pavel1269> and why do i have freetype in usefull end extern too?
15:09:23  <pavel1269> *and
15:09:56  <pavel1269> or i need now only usefull and no other libraries/includes?
15:10:47  <Rubidium> you need useful + directx august 2007 + platform sdk
15:11:07  <pavel1269> why i have libpng and such?
15:11:16  <pavel1269> it is not needed anymore?
15:11:24  <glx> and the easier way for useful is to extract it somewhere and set msvc paths to use it
15:11:41  <pavel1269> this i have done
15:12:08  <glx> and how did you install the previous useful ?
15:12:19  <glx> extracted in VC dirs ?
15:12:30  <pavel1269> no
15:12:53  <pavel1269> i have D: ... games/ottd/libraries and ... lib/include ...
15:13:06  <pavel1269> both marked in MSVS
15:14:00  <glx> search for libfreetype2.lib on your hard drive
15:14:09  <glx> you should have only one
15:14:30  <pavel1269> 2 :-P
15:14:42  <glx> and both in msvc paths?
15:14:56  <pavel1269> so ... now i deleted all other then usefull/dx paths
15:15:07  <pavel1269> except default ones ofc
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15:16:05  <pavel1269> word :-)
15:16:10  <pavel1269> *work
15:16:19  <glx> it was a conflict ;)
15:16:57  <pavel1269> so you, devs, included all neccesarry thinks into usefull?
15:17:03  <glx> yes
15:17:14  <pavel1269> :-) ... okay, thank you very much
15:17:17  <petern> thinks!
15:17:19  <glx> all required libs are in useful (except dx of course)
15:18:08  <Rubidium> everything that is used by OpenTTD and we are allowed to repackage and redistribute is in openttd-useful
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15:18:27  <pavel1269> whats "icu" for?
15:18:35  <glx> rtl languages
15:18:57  <Belugas> right to left languages
15:20:04  <pavel1269> so if i dont compile with that, people, who have rtl language may have problem if they have binary from me?
15:20:15  <pavel1269> but no problem for me at all?
15:20:36  <Rubidium> exactly
15:20:53  <pavel1269> good to know ...
15:21:03  <pavel1269> but not sure if i should include them :-/
15:21:15  <Rubidium> same that freetype isn't needed if you don't need non-standard characters
15:21:35  <Rubidium> libpng isn't needed if you don't want to load png heightmaps/store png screenshots
15:21:53  <pavel1269> i guess Czech language need freetype :-)
15:21:59  <glx> zlib isn't needed if you don't play multiplayer
15:22:11  <Rubidium> and zlib isn't needed if you want to store uncompressed savegames and don't need to be able to open savegames that are saved with zlib
15:22:34  <pavel1269> chars like "ř" "ÅŸ" "ě" "í" .... are in freetype?
15:22:56  <Rubidium> freetype is a library to load fonts
15:23:03  * petern remembers the bad days when utf8 was not supported
15:23:12  <petern> although string handling was more efficient :p
15:23:17  <Rubidium> so the answer is no, but it's used to load fonts that can contain those characters
15:23:41  <Rubidium> petern: and it was harder to exploit strings :)
15:23:54  <petern> :D
15:24:06  <Belugas> pavel1269, rule of thumb, though: if you want to distribute your own compiled version of OpenTTD, try to please as many people as you can.
15:24:12  <glx> and less special cases where needed ;)
15:24:19  <petern> especially me
15:24:23  <petern> so give me beer
15:24:39  <pavel1269> Belugas: then i hope, rtl dont use many ppl :-)
15:24:40  <Belugas> come over here, and i'll give you a box of beer!
15:24:55  <pavel1269> true? :-)
15:24:57  <glx> pavel1269: just use msvc for windows
15:25:07  <pavel1269> i know that
15:25:29  <pavel1269> but now need to update ALL of my patches :-X
15:25:45  <pavel1269> and include new ones of course
15:26:25  <Belugas> not you, pavel1269, petern ;)
15:26:31  <pavel1269> ahh, one of the most usefull patches ... pbs_r12622.patch ... also looking forwad cargodest :-)
15:26:43  <glx> pbs is in trunk
15:26:45  <pavel1269> Belugas: i want beer too! :-P
15:26:46  <planetmaker> pbs patch?!
15:26:57  <pavel1269> glx: i know ... but those days ... no :-)
15:28:36  <planetmaker> pavel1269: then I rather recommend to shop around the forums for the latest versions of the patches you desire - and have prior to that a look at the trunk features introduced meanwhile.
15:29:06  <pavel1269> planetmaker: i have like 8patches witch are mine :-) ... so i have to update them on my own
15:29:18  <pavel1269> but mostly, they are very simple
15:29:34  <planetmaker> pavel1269: if they're in the forums... maybe someone worked on them? :)
15:29:44  <pavel1269> they are and no :-)
15:29:54  <planetmaker> he... which are they?
15:30:00  <pavel1269> i dont even know if anyone have ever played with them :-)
15:30:22  <pavel1269> because same you cant use on normal mp server
15:30:44  <planetmaker> many people play SP
15:30:56  <planetmaker> MP is a minority, I think
15:31:04  <pavel1269> limited_city_size_r11814.patch, no_aircrash_r11814.patch, no_best_offer_r11814.patch, no_localauthority_r11814.patch
15:31:20  <pavel1269> those i included everywhere :-P
15:31:25  <pavel1269> i focus on mp :-)
15:31:51  <pavel1269> also limit_veh_speed_r11814.patch
15:31:56  <planetmaker> he, yeah, but they require indeed new clients :)
15:32:12  * planetmaker mostly picks up client-side only patches.
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15:32:50  <[wito]> pavel1269: side note; I'm testing cargodest against the newest revisions, works pretty well
15:33:02  <[wito]> Of course, I'm not actively looking for bugs, but on the whole I'm pretty happy with it
15:33:03  <pavel1269> is it mp stable?
15:33:13  <[wito]> mp
15:33:14  <[wito]> ?
15:33:26  <pavel1269> multiplayer
15:34:00  <[wito]> oh, no clue
15:34:42  <pavel1269> i have tested h63f84835, and i was happy with that, yeah, i know a lot of work needed there too but .... that patch is simply great :-)
15:34:48  <pavel1269> and now i care only if mp stable
15:34:54  <planetmaker> afaik yes, pavel1269
15:34:59  <pavel1269> great :-)
15:35:00  <[wito]> i'm using http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=771184#p771184 this one
15:35:02  <planetmaker> you should check out the updated patch
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15:35:21  <[wito]> patched against rev 15642 and updated to the current revision
15:35:21  <planetmaker> ali made an update and posted it somewhere
15:35:24  <[wito]> hasn't crashed yet
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15:36:08  <[wito]> Due to a problem with the map generator, I haven't really tested it on a huge network yet
15:36:19  <pavel1269> what problem?
15:36:35  <[wito]> bad Chi
15:36:54  <Rubidium> [wito]: then use my fix for that
15:37:09  <[wito]> :P
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15:37:26  <petern> C++ the existing generators
15:37:29  <pavel1269> Chi?
15:37:31  <petern> +ize
15:37:36  <petern> then add more
15:38:04  <[wito]> pavel1269: the maps don't have a good balance between the elements
15:38:13  <[wito]> they don't have a good flow of energy, if you will
15:38:19  <pavel1269> what elements? industries?
15:38:57  <[wito]> pavel1269: nah, the terrain
15:39:05  <planetmaker> pavel1269: Ying and Yang, esoteric harmony, you-name-it :P
15:39:12  <pavel1269> i am happy with it ?.ú
15:39:14  <pavel1269> *:-)
15:39:31  * Rubidium wonders whether [wito] is happy with the chi of the world
15:39:33  <[wito]> pavel1269: yeah, well
15:39:36  <[wito]> I'm slightly insane. :P
15:39:59  <Rubidium> oh, then we should ban you ;)
15:40:02  <[wito]> :P
15:40:32  <Rubidium> only the really insane are allowed
15:40:45  <planetmaker> :D
15:41:12  * planetmaker wonders whether such opinion is slightly or mightily insane ;)
15:42:45  <[wito]> I might try my hand at writing a templating terrain editor
15:42:55  <[wito]> Designed to generate terrain with good Chi
15:43:44  <[wito]> with actual mountains, rivers, gulleys, meandering lakes and so on
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15:46:09  * planetmaker wonders whether the now existing road path finders could be abused to find river paths...
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15:50:14  <Belugas> [11:42] <@Rubidium> only the really insane are allowed  <--- GOD I FEEL AT HOME!!
15:53:17  <Belugas> [wito], i'd be very interested in reading what the rules might be for having a terrain with good Chi...
15:53:40  <[wito]> Belugas: indeed, it is a tricky proposition
15:54:01  <Belugas> defining the undefinable
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15:55:36  <[wito]> oh, it's not undefinable
15:55:49  <[wito]> you only need to extend the principles for feng shui to terrain
15:56:44  <Belugas> tut tut tut... that is not a rule, it's walking around the subject
15:57:00  <[wito]> fine
15:57:06  <pavel1269> ehh, where do you know about chi, feng shui, ying and yang
15:58:05  <[wito]> You examine types of terrain (lake, river, mountain, forest, desert etc.) and assign to them elements
15:58:31  <[wito]> mountains are earth, lakes and rivers water, forests wood, deserts fire, and towns and certain industries metal
15:59:02  <[wito]> (a lumber mill, sawmill or forest would be wood, an oil refinery fire, etc.)
15:59:32  <pavel1269> then my maps are full of earth, wood and metal :-)
15:59:42  <[wito]> then you place elements in such a fashion that auspicious elements are together, inauspicious elements are apart, and that on the whole there is balance
16:00:05  <pavel1269> :-)
16:00:16  <pavel1269> no metal in wood? baaad
16:00:44  <planetmaker> the chainsaw in the woods... bad omen, if you're a tree :)
16:01:14  <pavel1269> :-)
16:01:29  <pavel1269> you are strange [wito] :-)
16:02:12  <[wito]> that may be so, but it would give some damn fine maps
16:02:14  <goodger> [wito]: what is that meant to achieve?
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16:10:53  <planetmaker> clearly: fine maps :)
16:11:23  <[wito]> goodger: it is meant to achieve maps that 1) Have good Chi
16:11:28  <[wito]> 2) Look like real terrain
16:11:40  <goodger> how is good chi achieved?
16:11:51  <goodger> and what does having it achieve?
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16:13:33  <petern> i said it before
16:13:36  <petern> you need tectonics
16:13:41  <petern> erosion
16:14:12  <petern> i.e. way too much
16:14:14  <petern> heh
16:14:24  <petern> i remember playing civ and waiting a minute for it to create the map
16:14:32  <goodger> petern: might be difficult to do erosion with a 3d resolution of 50m
16:14:41  <petern> just a bit
16:15:36  <goodger> might just about work with 1m
16:15:47  <goodger> but not 50
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16:17:19  <petern> i never said it would be easy though :)
16:17:30  <petern> tgp is just... lacking a b it
16:17:53  <goodger> quite
16:18:05  <|Japa|> perhaps not erosion, but tectonics would work
16:18:06  <[wito]> goodger: I just outlined a model for achieving good Chi
16:18:11  <[wito]> and you don't need erosion
16:18:33  <goodger> [wito]: what about the method gives it good chi, and what does good chi do for it?
16:19:16  <[wito]> goodger: good chi is achieved when the elements are in balance
16:19:21  <Noldo> what is Chi in this context?
16:19:41  <[wito]> and hopefully good chi roughly translates to playability
16:19:46  <[wito]> or at least realisnm
16:19:48  <[wito]> realism
16:20:52  <goodger> ok then
16:20:59  <goodger> I... think I understand
16:21:42  <Noldo> so Chi as in Chi-na
16:21:47  <[wito]> :P
16:21:53  <Noldo> ;)
16:21:54  <[wito]> no, Chi as in energy
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16:22:03  <Noldo> yeah yeah, that's what I ment
16:22:20  <|Japa|> or as the indians would call it, good vastu
16:22:21  <Noldo> it's also a greek letter that has some meaning in statistics
16:22:27  * goodger is confused again
16:22:29  <goodger> energy?
16:22:52  <goodger> Noldo: pronounced "k-eye" :)
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16:25:25  <[wito]> goodger: some think of it as though "Positive energy should flow through [the terrain] as a dragon would move through it."
16:26:49  <|Japa|> plate tectonics would be neat, tho
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16:27:23  <[wito]> indeed
16:27:23  <|Japa|> and I can mentally visualise how they would work
16:27:48  <[wito]> we'd still need an interface for building terrain generators
16:27:59  <petern> whoever decided perlin noise was good for maps? heh
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16:32:47  <Belugas> [12:13] <[wito]> 2) Look like real terrain  <--  hooo.... that is THE argument!!!
16:32:51  <goodger> the present map generator produces maps that are extremely difficult to actually build on; it's far too irregular even in "flat" mode and the towns are about two squares apart
16:33:33  <petern> that depends on the 'smoothing' level
16:34:45  <Belugas> petern, i vaguely remember a discussion on the matter in #openttd.  Richk was one of the attendants.  He was pushing toward perlin noise, but he weas not the one who brough the idea initially
16:34:58  <Belugas> i THINK it was tron, but i'm far from being sure
16:35:49  <Belugas> [wito] i read your description of the definition of the chi stuff.  i fear it might be too esoteric for openttd
16:37:19  <Belugas> one thing that strikes me is that there is no room for natural evolution.  it must fit some humanly defined rules, which obliviate any natural processes, like petern mentionned
16:37:53  <Rubidium> ~/.openttd/scenario/wito\'s\ map.scn = [wito]->GenerateMap(11, 11, LT_ARCTIC, 15, 7);
16:38:10  <Belugas> so you'll end up with maps that are pleasant for the eye, but that might not be realistic ;)
16:38:41  <petern> as always gameplay is important
16:39:02  <petern> and tgp is ... boring
16:39:10  <petern> it's all the same, the whole map
16:39:18  <petern> there're no defined valleys, just dips
16:39:28  <petern> there're no defined hill ranges, just bumps
16:39:38  * Belugas nods
16:39:41  <Rubidium> this [wito] map generator seems increadibly slow
16:39:52  <petern> :(
16:40:06  <Belugas> let's start a mew project: chaotic map generator
16:40:09  <Belugas> new
16:40:12  <Belugas> moooooo
16:41:15  <Noldo> are "realistic" heightmaps nice to play?
16:42:01  <Rubidium> first need to find the place on earth that is modeled after TTD's model of the world
16:42:38  <petern> :DF
16:42:54  <petern> Noldo: most of those are too flat
16:43:02  <petern> they take the height values literally
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16:55:07  <Sacro> Hmm, I think i've found a build bug
16:55:50  <Belugas> in my mind, there are 2 problems that might need to be adressed with the map generation: 1) more height level 2) cliffs
16:56:18  <Belugas> without those, it's pretty hard to have something with more relief
16:56:24  <Belugas> relief?
16:56:27  <Belugas> mmmh..
16:56:42  <Sacro> i have --binary-name=openttd-svn but it still uses /usr/share/doc/openttd and /usr/share/games/openttd
16:58:19  <petern> yeah
16:58:23  <petern> they're not... the binary...
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16:59:23  <Sacro> petern: hmm, so I should use the other stuff?
16:59:46  <Sacro> --binary-dir=bin --data-dir=share/openttd-svn -
16:59:55  <petern> something like that
17:00:11  <petern> (why do you need a different data-dir?)
17:00:38  <Sacro> so that it doesn't conflict
17:00:51  <Sacro> and Arch doesn't use /usr/share/games
17:00:52  <petern> what wou....
17:00:56  <petern> oh, if you install, i suppose
17:01:22  <petern> i don't think i've ever run make install :p
17:07:02  *** NightKhaos [~nightkhao@78-86-111-126.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
17:07:05  <Sacro> ./configure --prefix-dir=/usr --binary-name=openttd-svn --binary-dir=bin --data-dir=share/openttd-svn --install-dir=$startdir/pkg --doc-dir=share/doc/openttd-svn --menu-name="OpenTTD SVN"
17:07:10  <Sacro> :D
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17:27:11  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15672 /trunk/src/ (saveload/vehicle_sl.cpp sound.cpp vehicle.cpp vehicle_base.h): -Codechange: (left,right,top,bottom)_coord -> coord.(left,right,top,bottom), i.e. use Rect.
17:27:39  *** Progman [~progman@p57A1FAF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
17:27:54  <petern> zomg
17:40:03  *** Mortomes [~mortomes@i15108.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
17:41:01  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r15673 /trunk/src/settings.cpp: -Fix: it was not possible to compile a win32 dedicated server (even if 'configure --enable-dedicated' passed)
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17:50:46  <Belugas> no more mister synchropolling!
17:50:46  <Belugas> code beautifying
17:50:54  <Belugas> o_O
17:50:56  <Belugas> sorry
17:51:47  <[wito]> yay
17:51:49  <[wito]> zeppelins!
17:51:58  <[wito]> I do love av8r. :)
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18:12:36  <el_en> how was "It was full of bees. - I thought it was more like full of cees." translated in Lost?
18:17:17  <Belugas> i dunno... you lost me
18:17:55  <petern> maybe el_en was looking for #lost?
18:18:09  <petern> he's the only person who talks about it here :)
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18:40:08  <Belugas> mmh...
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18:41:03  <[wito]> yarr
18:41:04  <Belugas> el_en  ->  ln  -> Lost Noob!
18:41:17  <[wito]> Cargodest makes it difficult to get enough throughput on stations. :P
18:41:34  <[wito]> 20kPassengers and 5kBags of mail waiting. o.O;;
18:41:53  <glx> [wito]: try with TTRS too ;)
18:41:53  <|Japa|> yup
18:41:58  <[wito]> TTRS?
18:41:59  <KingJ> I've had that, at over 10 stations ;)
18:42:03  <|Japa|> TTRS?
18:42:11  <[wito]> Oh, this is just one hub
18:42:39  <Belugas> TTRS!
18:42:47  <KingJ> It turned out that some just wanted to go one more station down the line, so I built 20 length ubertrains just to shuttle them
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18:43:04  <[wito]> yeah
18:43:08  <[wito]> well, that ain't the worst of it
18:43:15  <glx> though with distant join it should be easier to handle
18:43:22  <[wito]> I also have an airport with 10kBags of diamonds waiting. o.O
18:43:30  <Belugas> Total Town Realistic System
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18:45:57  <petern> replacement set, no?
18:45:58  <[wito]> Belugas: but what does it DO?
18:46:06  <planetmaker>  /me quiets Belugas
18:46:46  <planetmaker> [wito]: try it.
18:47:10  *** Dr_Jekyll [R4R@p57B0D22C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:48:48  <Belugas> Total Town Replacement Set
18:48:56  <Belugas> it gives a brand new touch to your town
18:49:04  <Belugas> it has some cargo magic too
18:49:22  <Belugas> yes petern, i was.. facetious
18:51:00  <planetmaker> whew... you just got the curve away from realism, Belugas ;)
18:51:02  <petern> oh
18:51:22  <petern> facetious is a great word
18:51:30  <petern> for containing all the vowels in order
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18:52:08  <planetmaker> :)
18:52:10  <petern> or 'facetiously' if you want to go one step further :D
18:52:17  *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
18:52:25  <planetmaker> Czech words would contain all consonants in order :P
18:52:32  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r15674 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:52:32  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-03-11 18:52:10
18:52:32  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 9 changed by planetmaker (9)
18:52:32  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: indonesian - 1 fixed by fanioz (1)
18:52:32  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: luxembourgish - 121 fixed by Gubius (121)
18:52:33  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: portuguese - 4 fixed by SnowFlake (4)
18:52:33  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: russian - 1 fixed by Smoky555 (1)
18:57:43  <Belugas> lol!
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18:57:53  <Belugas> i'll remember that one, petern :D
18:58:39  <[wito]> yowza
18:58:55  <[wito]> another airport hub has 65kPassengers waiting. o.O;;;;
18:59:09  <petern> i remember the good old days
18:59:20  <petern> when you could only have around 4000 waiting...
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19:01:15  <Belugas> and then, there wer no intercontinental airports either :)
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19:03:26  <petern> oh fuck yes
19:03:34  <planetmaker> with the emergance of distant join stations they're heavily overrated anyway :)
19:03:34  <petern> i hate those :p
19:03:48  <petern> they always where
19:03:50  <petern> were
19:05:08  <Belugas> please please please... let all of my airports in trunk... please please
19:05:49  <[wito]> planetmaker: you still cannot combine airports, tho'
19:06:43  <Belugas> luckily
19:13:26  *** Klanticus [~quassel@monowall.cisc.usp.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:18:41  <el_en> [20:18] <petern> he's the only person who talks about it here :)  <-- not true, at least glx and Eddi|atHome have been seen talking about Lost.
19:20:17  <planetmaker> [wito]: what would be the use to combine airports anyway?
19:20:57  <[wito]> planetmaker: huge friggin airports? :P
19:21:18  *** PeCeT_full [PeCeT_full@host-137-99.jkns.pl] has joined #openttd
19:21:22  <[wito]> sometimes, two helipads just doesn't cut it. :P
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19:27:03  <Belugas> yup yup...those were the times...
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19:39:40  *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-51-190.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
19:40:04  <Nite_Owl> Hello all
19:41:04  *** dyzdyz [~dyzdyz@193.189.116.2] has joined #openttd
19:43:49  <dyzdyz> hi all
19:44:04  <dyzdyz> may i have some questions about compiling ottd?
19:45:03  *** JapaMala [~Japa@117.201.97.118] has joined #openttd
19:45:08  <Belugas> hehe... i have a ton of questions :)
19:45:36  <dyzdyz> heh, i think my questions are not so complicated as yours
19:45:38  <Ammler> then give him some ;-)
19:45:38  <Rubidium> hmm... new type of asking whether you may ask something?
19:46:09  <dyzdyz> is it possible to mix two or more patches?
19:46:48  <Belugas> yes it's possible
19:46:53  <dyzdyz> ...but?
19:46:54  <dyzdyz> :-)
19:47:03  <Belugas> you have to know what you're doing to merge them
19:47:19  *** |Japa| [~Japa@117.201.97.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:47:25  <JapaMala> I have no questions
19:47:32  <JapaMala> just letting you all know
19:47:33  <Belugas> and i THINK you shold not use BuildOTTD (or something alike)
19:47:42  <planetmaker> hello Nite_Owl
19:47:43  <Belugas> good boy, JapaMala, good boy
19:48:02  <[wito]> dyzdyz: It's very possible, but can be problematic if they affect the same thing
19:48:21  <dyzdyz> [wito]: i was expecting that
19:48:24  <Nite_Owl> Hello planetmaker
19:48:40  <[wito]> A patch to modify the terrain generator and, oh, say, cargodest won't be a problem to mix
19:49:01  <[wito]> but two patches that both affect handling of road vehicles might conflict
19:49:17  * Belugas nods
19:49:39  <dyzdyz> ok, i actually want to mix cargodest with [patch] More Map Settings v2 (r14439) and copy&paste reworked patch
19:49:43  <Belugas> therefor, it's good to understand the code you want to patch, or you'll end up gambling
19:49:52  <[wito]> well
19:49:57  <JapaMala> also, a patch that allows more heightlevels, and a nocd patch for FC2, won't mix well
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19:50:02  <[wito]> svn to the revision for the lowest patch
19:50:07  <[wito]> apply
19:50:12  <[wito]> svn to rev for next patch
19:50:17  <[wito]> rinse and repeat
19:50:29  <[wito]> if you don't get a C anywhere in there, chances are things'll work out fine
19:50:32  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15675 /trunk/src/effectvehicle.cpp: -Codechange: don't unnecessarily mark vehicles dirty before deleting them; it already happens in the destructor.
19:50:33  <[wito]> if you do, however
19:50:35  <[wito]> tough luck
19:50:57  <dyzdyz> ok, i'll try now
19:51:16  <dyzdyz> and probably will have some questions
19:51:19  <dyzdyz> more
19:51:22  <planetmaker> dyzdyz: have you so far already compiled openttd? compiled with one patch?
19:51:34  <dyzdyz> planetmaker: yes, but not on window
19:51:39  <dyzdyz> windows
19:51:48  *** murr4y_ is now known as murr4y
19:51:54  <dyzdyz> now i'm trying cygwin
19:51:56  <planetmaker> he... :) good way to go that way, then, too :)
19:52:38  <dyzdyz> it's not possible to compile for win64 using cygwin? only MS-whatever-2099?
19:53:20  <Ammler> yes
19:53:36  <dyzdyz> all right
19:53:59  <dyzdyz> so, let's try
19:54:06  <Ammler> (it's not, if it hasn't changed in recent code)
19:55:41  <Rubidium> there's people working on mingw64, aren't they?
19:56:14  <dyzdyz> so i should begin patching with the oldes rev?
19:56:21  <dyzdyz> *oldest?
19:56:48  <planetmaker> it's a good way to start, yes
19:58:27  <planetmaker> mind that 14439 is not the newest version anymore and the likelyness to get conflicts increases with increasing difference in revisions
19:58:56  <dyzdyz> why should i use 14439?
19:59:10  <dyzdyz> ah, right
19:59:51  <dyzdyz> do i need something more for cargodest that is metioned here: http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Cygwin ?
20:00:23  <Rubidium> yes
20:00:33  <Rubidium> some headers from boost
20:02:31  <dyzdyz> i assume windows version of Boost headers is not ok for cygwin?
20:02:50  <glx> headers are headers
20:02:59  <planetmaker> ^^
20:03:08  * JapaMala wants cargodes pax volume issues to be fixed
20:03:23  <[wito]> JapaMala: that the bugs where passengers are over-popped?
20:03:43  <dyzdyz> JapaMala: i dream about it too :-)
20:03:57  <JapaMala> it's annoying having half ofthe entire town population waiting at my stations
20:04:07  *** JapaMala is now known as |Japa|
20:04:34  <[wito]> half?
20:04:44  <[wito]> I had a game with a feeder service to an airport
20:04:44  <petern> bugs?
20:04:57  <petern> it's not a bug, it's a balancing issue.
20:05:08  <Rubidium> the "bug" is that passengers are transferred which makes trains (un)load longer which makes the throughput lower which makes the stations fill more easily
20:05:19  <[wito]> the ammount of passengers waiting for service to a hub was about 3 times the combined size of the two towns that provided passenger feed. :P
20:06:53  <Belugas> so?
20:07:42  <|Japa|> bugs aside, cargodest just makes the game plain harder
20:07:46  <petern> exactly the same happens without cargodest
20:07:47  <|Japa|> in a good way
20:07:49  <Rubidium> they just procreate like rabbits in the towns
20:07:59  <Rubidium> when you move people out of there
20:08:02  <[wito]> |Japa|: s/harder/more challenging/
20:08:02  <petern> you just don't notice it because passengers will disappear given the first chance
20:08:46  <Alberth> We have nested HG trunks nowadays? http://vcs.openttd.org/hg/openttd/trunk.hg/trunk.hg/trunk.hg/trunk.hg/trunk.hg/trunk.hg/
20:08:59  <Rubidium> yes
20:09:00  <Alberth> each time I click at 'trunk.hg', another one is added
20:09:23  <Rubidium> just use hg.openttd.org
20:09:33  <Rubidium> or tell TB about it
20:09:49  *** OsteHovel^EEE [~OsteHovel@062016205204.customer.alfanett.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:13:23  <Alberth> Rubidium: tnx! I was already worried my hg was broken
20:13:23  <[wito]> Is it possible to build a newGRF that modifies the look of depots/docks depending on when they are built?
20:14:50  <Rubidium> not with the current implementation
20:17:40  <[wito]> I'd love a set of ships for the 1600-1800 era (good old sailboats. :D)
20:17:51  <[wito]> but they would look rather silly with the current depots
20:18:39  <Alberth> why bot simply make a good looking one for your era?
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20:19:40  *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
20:19:44  <[wito]> well, it would make a lot of sense if say road vehicle depots pre 1850ish were wooden sheds or stables, but those built after would be bus depots
20:22:55  <Alberth> [wito]: Well, it is not going to happen automatically. One way around it is to provide all variations and let the user pick the right one
20:23:16  *** DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-104-215.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd
20:23:24  <Alberth> and maybe in the future, OpenTTD is going to support it, and then you can change your grf accordingly
20:23:50  <Nite_Owl> Does not TTRS change depots over time?
20:25:22  <|Japa|> are you even able to make multiple docks?
20:26:03  <|Japa|> because with stations, you are able to have station types that are only buildable for a certain period
20:26:20  <|Japa|> not that you can actually tell what the period is...
20:27:20  <dyzdyz> so, now i see compilig anything using cygwin is too complicated for me
20:31:24  <dyzdyz> cargodest source is availibe ia something called "mercurial", so i added this package to my cygwin, and it doesn't seem to work
20:32:02  <Aali> perhaps you should read the manual
20:33:11  <dyzdyz> yeah, i should... but why do i have to install something that lets me install something else that lets me install something else that let me download the source :-) ?
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20:35:42  <Alberth> dyzdyz: if you think that is hard, what until you get the first compile error!
20:36:18  <Aali> compiler errors are manageable, crashing the compiler is far worse :(
20:37:31  <dyzdyz> Alberth: i don't think it's hard, it's just annoying
20:37:45  <dyzdyz> it would be hard without manuals
20:37:48  <Rubidium> cygwin is like linux from scratch
20:38:00  <Rubidium> compile everything yourself because they don't package it for you
20:38:07  <Aali> well, the main problem is that you started out with windows :)
20:38:35  <Rubidium> on the other hand... installing the DirectX SDK gives you a similar problem
20:38:55  <dyzdyz> Aali: that is the long story...
20:39:34  <Aali> cygwin has provided every package I have needed so far except aterm and that I could have done without, I just like it better than xterm
20:40:07  <Rubidium> because the directx intstall (august 2007, the one you need) is in a self extracting package which is in a self extracting package. So to install like 15 MB of headers + libs you need to extract a 400 MB download 3 times, so you need almost 2 GiB to install it
20:40:38  *** sigmund [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd
20:40:46  <Alberth> Rubidium: you need something to fill your disks with :)
20:41:37  <Rubidium> those are called called hiberfil.sys, pagefile.sys, %TMP% and temporary internet files
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20:43:05  *** helb_ is now known as helb
20:43:39  <dyzdyz> my cywin sais i have no python installed, but cygwin installer says i have python installed :-)
20:43:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15676 /trunk/src/ (10 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: remove the need for BeginVehicleMove and merge VehiclePositionChanged and EndVehicleMove.
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20:50:22  <batti5> What did i do to get permanent ban?
20:50:41  <planetmaker> uu... the code got both, more readable and shorter :)
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20:53:38  <matma6> hello/witam
20:53:47  <planetmaker> hello
20:54:16  <matma6> well, i speak polish very well - it's my native language
20:54:43  <matma6> but english
20:54:50  <Rubidium> I speak Polish as well as Google translate speaks it
20:54:58  <Rubidium> which is very crappy
20:55:02  <matma6> nvm
20:55:12  <matma6> auto translators?
20:55:24  <matma6> i don't believe
20:55:27  <matma6> well
20:55:39  <matma6> i have a little idea about OTTD
20:56:00  <matma6> i was playing few moments ago Simutrans
20:56:22  <matma6> http://www.simutrans.com/
20:56:30  <petern> you sicko
20:56:31  <planetmaker> convince them to trans-code the comic pack to an openttd grf.
20:56:49  <matma6> i don't understand
20:56:57  <matma6> no no
20:57:05  <matma6> view is ugly
20:57:08  <planetmaker> they have nice comic graphics. I want those for openttd :)
20:57:20  <planetmaker> better than toyland :P
20:57:22  <Belugas> [16:58] <planetmaker> convince them to trans-code the comic pack to an openttd grf.  <--seconded!!!
20:57:30  <planetmaker> :)
20:57:34  <petern> you could join my 32bpp project
20:57:34  <Belugas> want want want!!!!!!
20:57:36  <SmatZ> planetmaker: uh huh!
20:57:38  <petern> the one i need to start :p
20:57:40  <matma6> i think this is not good
20:57:44  <matma6> nvm
20:57:47  <Belugas> the one with one tile, petern?
20:57:48  <Belugas> hehehe
20:57:50  <petern> yes!
20:57:53  <planetmaker> :P
20:58:05  <petern> but that 1 tile works well ;)
20:58:12  <planetmaker> matma6: just tell your suggestion :)
20:58:25  <Belugas> matma6, it looks like there is more than just one person who think it's not "not good" :D
20:58:30  <matma6> i think you should add a few tools
20:58:44  <Belugas> a saw?  a wrench? a hammer?
20:58:50  <dyzdyz> lol
20:58:53  <planetmaker> a wrench will be good
20:59:01  <matma6> 1. a lines
20:59:15  <planetmaker> to loosen the screws on the vehicle axes: increased breakdowns
20:59:23  <Belugas> lines?  what do you mean?
20:59:25  <matma6> it means i will create a : a>b>c>d
20:59:39  <matma6> and i ll give this instruction to 10 buses
20:59:42  <planetmaker> vehicle orders?
20:59:45  <planetmaker> it's possible
20:59:45  <dyzdyz> shared orders?
20:59:46  <petern> lines is basically doing cloned vehicles the opposite way
21:00:04  <petern> set up the orders first then build vehicles with those orders
21:00:07  <matma6> but if i change the line?
21:00:11  <dyzdyz> shared orders?
21:00:19  <planetmaker> using shared orders, it's possible, matma6
21:00:29  <petern> not quite the same
21:00:33  <matma6> maybe, i don't speak english very well
21:00:38  <matma6> how?
21:00:41  <dyzdyz> matma6: go priv
21:00:53  <dyzdyz> matma6: go to prv, we'll talk in polish
21:01:01  <|Japa|> I tried starting on a comic GRF, got as far as grass, dirt, and a few in-between tiles
21:02:03  <planetmaker> petern: though not the same, it's just another means to the same end
21:02:47  <planetmaker> Though I remember an earlier TT-forums discussion started by brianetta(?) about vehicle lists... which might have included exactly that proposal :)
21:02:56  <|Japa|> I got thise far: http://pix.sparky-s.ie/images/d8e5fc78fzwfuw1043j0.png
21:03:18  <petern> that's too plain
21:03:34  <petern> right, decoded opengfx, so i know what's what...
21:03:44  <|Japa|> I know
21:03:48  <petern> ah
21:03:50  <matma6> so thx
21:03:56  <matma6> it was Ctrl
21:04:00  <matma6> cya
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21:04:07  <planetmaker> bye!
21:04:56  <planetmaker> petern: that grass may be plain. But if you think of a setting where you build a toy railways within LEGO land or so, it's be quite fitting.
21:05:14  <petern> it's not like the comic pack though :(
21:05:17  *** batti5 [~batti5@92.82.85.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:05:20  <Belugas> |Japa|, that's a nice start.  too plain, as petern said, but a nice one
21:05:23  <planetmaker> nope. Different thing :)
21:05:28  <petern> where's my 3981
21:05:40  * planetmaker hands petern a 1138
21:05:48  <planetmaker> :P
21:06:01  <petern> must be in my windows partition somewhere
21:07:04  * Alberth hands petern window.cpp
21:08:50  <Belugas> ho fuck....
21:08:52  <Belugas> bye!!!
21:09:00  <Rubidium> night Belugas
21:09:44  <Nite_Owl> later Belugas
21:09:44  <Alberth> bye Belugas
21:10:20  <planetmaker> bye Belugas !
21:16:49  <Nite_Owl> I just love that newly installed nightly smell
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21:17:27  <Rubidium> does that smell like burnt PCBs?
21:18:12  <Nite_Owl> sort of a cross between 'new car smell' and jasmine
21:19:36  <Nite_Owl> of course you do need to download the proper libraries and the nasal plug in for your OS
21:20:37  <[wito]> so who's gonna be writing a Toyland -> Moon conversion? ;D
21:21:09  <Rubidium> the person that has not been here for more than a year: somebody!
21:21:49  <[wito]> Rubidium: Why so serious? :P
21:22:14  <Rubidium> serious?
21:23:01  <[wito]> Despite appearances, I know that this is not #openttd-programming-requests. :P
21:24:03  <planetmaker> [wito]: so... what's wrong with the existing mars grf?
21:24:12  <planetmaker> except that it needs industry replacement?
21:24:58  <planetmaker> kinda funny to have on mars a) toyshops b) seas of magma instead of water / ice / sand
21:25:12  <[wito]> Indeed
21:25:23  <[wito]> Dry Ice Mines, perhaps?
21:25:59  <planetmaker> mars shouldn't have maps with water :)
21:26:16  <planetmaker> dry ice... well. you'd rather mine for real water ice :)
21:26:20  <planetmaker> if I were there.
21:26:26  <[wito]> true
21:27:11  <Prof_Frink> Oxygen generators, Total Recall style.
21:27:47  <[wito]> well, I suppose if you have a nuclear plant that isn't "doing anything", extracting oxygen from dry ice is an option
21:28:04  <[wito]> it also gives tons of carbon for those nanotubes you need oh-so-dearly
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21:28:59  <|Japa|> how about the 'water'being a deep abyss?
21:29:56  <[wito]> nah, Mars doesn't really have those
21:30:04  <[wito]> in fact, it doesn't really have much of anything
21:30:08  <[wito]> being geologically dead and all
21:30:23  <[wito]> It is, for all intents and purposes, a huge rock. :P
21:30:31  <Alberth> it is just bloody cold there
21:30:45  <[wito]> Terraforming Mars:
21:30:56  <[wito]> 1) Nuke the planet core until plate tectonics take place
21:30:58  <[wito]> 2) ????
21:31:00  <[wito]> 3) PROFIT
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21:34:35  <|Japa|> unlike some people, mmy ass does not produce numbers, makes lying a bitch
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21:43:37  <planetmaker> [wito]: Mars has quite some stuff :) iron, carbon, helium, oxygen. It just needs work to extract it
21:43:52  <planetmaker> but no technical means will start plate tectonics
21:44:11  <Prof_Frink> planetmaker: You should know
21:44:47  <[wito]> I'm fairly certain that if you drilled to the center of the planet and set of enough nukes to reduce the innermost third or so of the planet to liquid stone you could get something going. :P
21:44:51  <planetmaker> maybe a civilization type 2 - with access to the ressources of a whole solar sytem will have those means.
21:45:03  <planetmaker> [wito]: there's not enough uranium...
21:45:10  <planetmaker> and you couldn't drill there
21:45:33  <Prof_Frink> It's called unobtainium for a reason ;)
21:45:44  <planetmaker> hehe
21:45:47  <[wito]> helium-cooled carbon-steel drills should get you pretty far down. :P
21:45:53  <planetmaker> nope
21:46:03  <[wito]> you could also blow off the entire stockpile of nuclear waste
21:46:16  <[wito]> I'm not saying it's done in a day
21:46:18  <planetmaker> to what extend would that help?
21:46:46  <[wito]> Put enough radioactive material in one spot, and stuff begins to happen. :P
21:47:17  <planetmaker> you'll have a bit of hot area. On a human scale. On a planetary scale that's nothing
21:47:34  <Prof_Frink> I say we give the magratheans a call. They're pretty good at this stuff.
21:47:44  <planetmaker> :P
21:47:51  <planetmaker> the vogons are also good with it
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21:48:10  <[wito]> well,
21:48:13  <[wito]> it might not work
21:48:39  <[wito]> but just trying would be a worthwhile way of getting rid of the worlds nuclear arsenal and nuclear waste in one go. :P
21:49:07  <planetmaker> nope
21:49:22  <planetmaker> you would nicely scatter it around the globe.
21:49:40  <[wito]> It's Mars, what were you gonna do there anyway? :P
21:49:53  <planetmaker> build habitats :D
21:50:07  <planetmaker> but ESA wouldn't let me :(
21:50:16  <[wito]> pah
21:50:25  <[wito]> you just build yourself a rocket and vamoose
21:50:28  <[wito]> see what they can do about it. :P
21:51:36  <[wito]> What are they gonna do?
21:51:48  <[wito]> Send a police-spaceship to Mars and arrest you? :P
21:52:17  <Prof_Frink> Pfft, just put lasers on your spaceship.
21:52:37  <planetmaker> one bloody laser is sufficient to incapacitate a space ship :)
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21:55:03  <[wito]> space ships are pretty fast things
21:55:23  <[wito]> and they can't very well incapacitate it during takeoff, that'd be tantamount to murdering the crew
21:55:23  <planetmaker> nope :P
21:55:39  <[wito]> and once you've cleared orbit, they really don't have any authority. :P
21:55:40  <planetmaker> (wrt fast)
21:55:55  <[wito]> they're faster than a bike
21:55:56  <planetmaker> he... the kingdom of Mars :P
21:56:03  <[wito]> More like Empire
21:56:08  <[wito]> (keep in mind, it's a whole planet)
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22:03:08  <DASPRiD> pm built so many planets, one more doesnt matter
22:03:22  <planetmaker> :P
22:03:26  <DASPRiD> tallking about planets, 2 days ago i finally saw final fantasy, awesome movie :)
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23:23:22  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15677 /trunk/src/ (roadveh_cmd.cpp train_cmd.cpp):
23:23:22  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#2546]: vehicle images would be determined during the process of moving
23:23:22  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: the vehicle which means that only the (orientation) data for the vehicles in
23:23:22  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: front of it is valid. Now the data for the vehicles behind the vehicle are valid
23:23:22  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: too.
23:24:00  <[wito]> Rubidium: sorry to bother you sir, but I'm having a really weird crash
23:25:17  <petern> no, it's a feature
23:25:22  <[wito]> When choosing newGRF Settings from the main menu for so to press "Apply Changes", openTTD segfaults. :P
23:25:31  <[wito]> latest revision
23:25:41  <[wito]> but has been like that for at least one revision
23:26:39  <[wito]> The weird part is that it doesn't crash if I go into newgrf setting on a new game
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23:28:04  <planetmaker> [wito]: main menu = within a running game?
23:28:16  <planetmaker> changing newgrfs on an existing game?
23:28:33  <petern> $ bin/openttd
23:28:33  <petern> Segmentation fault
23:28:36  <[wito]> no, Start screen
23:28:36  <petern> yeah it does
23:28:48  <planetmaker> he...:(
23:29:07  <petern> 0x000000000065edf9 in UpdateVehiclePosHash (v=0x1f56ca0, x=-740, y=2687) at /home/petern/ottd/trunk4/src/v
23:29:10  <petern> ehicle.cpp:439
23:31:07  <[wito]> that seems like an extremely odd place to crash?
23:31:36  <petern> how so?
23:32:02  <[wito]> well, wouldn't line 439 be
23:32:14  <[wito]> while (u != v) {
23:32:15  <[wito]> ?
23:32:31  * petern ponders performance of r15677
23:33:09  <petern> (extra chain loop, always get new image even if vehicle not moved, etc...)
23:34:17  <Rubidium> it isn't significantly slower with some savegames with lots of vehicles I've tested it in
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23:34:56  <Rubidium> especially when you compare it to r15670 ;)
23:34:59  <petern> hm
23:35:27  <[wito]> First time OpenTTD has ever crashed on me, btw. ;D
23:35:45  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15678 /trunk/src/saveload/vehicle_sl.cpp: -Fix (r15676): crash when (re)applying newgrf settings
23:35:52  <Rubidium> [wito]: then you haven't been doing your best at crashing it
23:35:54  <petern> and no, :439 is "u = u->next_hash" :p
23:36:03  <[wito]> petern: oh
23:36:18  <petern> Rubidium, it just seem we have masses of redundancy
23:36:23  <[wito]> stupid less-style line-numbering. :P
23:37:12  <petern> updating the (new) vehicle position hash just cos the image has changes
23:37:15  <petern> -s+d
23:37:24  <petern> less-style?
23:37:44  <petern> more like "having the same version as me" line-numbering
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