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Log for #openttd on 25th March 2009:
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00:04:48  *** stuffcorpse [~rick@121.98.136.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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00:08:59  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15840 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: complete the game option window widget enum and unify the naming.
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00:15:20  <Belugas> indeed, and time and knowledge is often not going well together
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00:16:40  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15841 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Fix: the saveload window could draw directory partly outside the window
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00:21:35  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15842 /trunk/src/widget.cpp: -Codechange: make DrawSortButtonState RTL.
00:24:21  <Belugas> pfff..  sometimes, Begin and End are making me sick
00:24:27  <welshdragon> Brianetta: why did you delete my bridge?
00:24:46  <Brianetta> I didn't delete anything
00:24:59  <welshdragon> my company is white
00:25:00  <Brianetta> I joined your company, because, you know, I'd never done that before and it was new.
00:25:07  <Brianetta> Then I lost connection.
00:25:18  <welshdragon> and you deleted my bridge :(
00:25:47  <Brianetta> I didn't delete a thing
00:25:54  <Brianetta> Did it explode?
00:25:58  <Brianetta> Was it demolished?
00:26:02  <Brianetta> Or did we just desync?
00:26:06  <Brianetta> I suspect the latter
00:26:17  <Brianetta> and that your bridge never was, as far as the server was concerned.
00:26:25  <Belugas> too bad i cannot replace Begin and End by { } in Delphi
00:26:31  <Belugas> wold make my job easier
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00:26:40  <Belugas> even at this time of day
00:26:46  <Belugas> day...  well... sort of :S
00:26:48  <Brianetta> I don't even know which bridge you're on about (:
00:26:58  <Belugas> Bridge to Babylon!
00:27:32  <Brianetta> Sacro: You're heading for bankruptcy
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00:28:04  <Sacro> Brianetta: that's my old company
00:28:10  <Brianetta> ah
00:28:15  <Sacro> new one is nice
00:29:20  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15843 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Codechange: with RTL the caret would always be drawn at the end of the textbox.
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00:43:37  <eMjay88> what do you guys think, should I upgrade my laptop from (Ubuntu) 8.04 to 8.10 or wait until 9.04 comes out?
00:44:12  <glx> it's up to you :)
00:45:37  <Rubidium> upgrading, what's that?
00:45:47  <Belugas> could i suggest yet another option?  go for kubuntu
00:46:01  <Belugas> just for the fun of confusing you een more!
00:46:08  * Rubidium has been running the same version for many years now
00:46:57  <HackaLittleBit> Clean the disk and go for puppy linux:)
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00:48:07  <Belugas> DOS 5.5
00:49:08  <HackaLittleBit> minix?
00:51:31  <Rubidium> eMjay88: wait for 9.10, cause 9.04 won't have OpenTTD 0.7
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00:55:48  <HackaLittleBit> does anybody has experience with visual irc?
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00:56:55  <Rubidium> I'd say someone has, but we haven't seen him lately
00:57:00  <fonsinchen> You might want to argue with me about http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=41992
00:57:17  <fonsinchen> especially about using glpk as additional dependency
00:57:42  <Belugas> IT'S SHITTY!!!
00:57:47  <Belugas> IT'S TOO REALISTIC!!!
00:57:57  <fonsinchen> sorry, but it isn't
00:58:08  <Belugas> well... i'm arguing...
00:58:08  <Yexo> fonsinchen: don't take Belugas serious :p
00:58:12  <Belugas> lol
00:58:14  <Belugas> bummer :D
00:59:03  <eMjay88> Rubidium: do you mean that 0.7 won't work on Ubuntu < 9.10 or that 0.7 will be included in 9.10?
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00:59:33  <Yexo> fonsinchen: it looks promising, but I don't have time to read such a big patch now
00:59:46  <Rubidium> it's quite likely that 0.7 will be included in 9.10
00:59:50  <fonsinchen1> that's why I broke it up into 5 parts
01:00:05  <Rubidium> as they're leeching it from debian/sid
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01:00:12  <fonsinchen1> Ubuntu?
01:00:45  <fonsinchen1> well, that might solve the problem with the additional dependency for some, but we shouldn't rely on it.
01:01:44  <Rubidium> so it's yet another cargodest implementation?
01:01:56  <Yexo> fonsinchen1: don't mix two discussions, ubuntu 9.10 will most likely include openttd 0.7
01:01:57  <fonsinchen1> one that actually works
01:02:06  <fonsinchen1> sorry
01:02:21  <Rubidium> fonsinchen1: and you know that because nobody reported bugs yet?
01:02:37  <fonsinchen1> no, because it has a clear concept
01:02:59  <fonsinchen1> which adresses all known intrinsic problems with previous attempts
01:03:36  <fonsinchen1> actually it's not fully done yet
01:04:11  <fonsinchen1> so you might as well ignore it for now - I just wanted to inform you about what I'm doing there.
01:05:48  <Belugas> it's big
01:05:53  <Rubidium> well... it won't work on platforms that don't have threads. That's what might be considered a big big big no-go
01:06:00  *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAEd29f.bae.pppool.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:06:16  <fonsinchen1> I can serialize the threads
01:06:20  <fonsinchen1> no problem
01:06:42  <fonsinchen1> actually I use the openttd thread api
01:07:15  <Belugas> we have one?
01:07:17  * Belugas hides
01:07:25  <fonsinchen1> thread.h
01:07:35  <fonsinchen1> also you do the network stuff in a seperate thread
01:07:38  <Rubidium> using it: yes. Using it incorrectly: yes
01:07:39  <fonsinchen1> and the loading and saving
01:08:09  <Rubidium> loading isn't threaded
01:08:20  <fonsinchen1> Rubidium: what do you mean by incorrect here?
01:09:07  <Rubidium> the network stuff, saving and newgame check the return value of new and in case that no thread was made it runs the actually thread instead of ignoring it
01:09:38  <fonsinchen1> That's a small detail. I can implement that
01:10:17  <fonsinchen1> I don't have to run all of the computation at once either
01:10:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15844 /trunk/src/ (ai/ai_gui.cpp console_gui.cpp gfx.cpp gfx_func.h): -Codechange: allow text alignment to be forced so the console and ai debug output don't get swapped (those are untranslateable anyways)
01:10:48  <fonsinchen1> I can stretch it over several OnTick_LinkGraph calls
01:11:09  <Belugas> have you started from the actual cargo dest (as much as concept, not code)?
01:11:22  <fonsinchen1> I had a look at it, yes
01:11:36  <fonsinchen1> but I found it too restrictive to actually use the code
01:11:41  <fonsinchen1> except for the smallmap
01:14:33  <Belugas> ok
01:14:42  <Belugas> impressively big piece
01:14:56  <fonsinchen1> thanks
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01:17:31  <Belugas> i'm wondering: demand_pax and all the others, could they disappear and be replaced by something more... open, more... hem.. flexible?
01:17:48  <Belugas> or maybe im not viewing it all...
01:18:52  <fonsinchen1> I grouped them by relevant cargo classes
01:19:12  <Rubidium> and what when they collide?
01:19:24  <fonsinchen1> the configuration settings only represent a subset of what could be done if the settings system was more flexible
01:19:33  <fonsinchen1> then there is a hierarchy
01:19:50  <fonsinchen1> passengers > mail > express > armoured > rest
01:20:09  <fonsinchen1> see InitializeDemands
01:20:24  <Rubidium> I rather see Sleep ;)
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01:20:38  <fonsinchen1> good idea actually
01:24:18  <Belugas> settings.h is a bit of a mess, but i guess it's not really surprising with the CAPACITY_SV and such
01:24:39  <Belugas> watch out, i've spotted a few tabs in there
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01:24:55  <fonsinchen1> yes, these are temporary defines, so that I don't have to edit in 20 places when I change the savegame version
01:25:24  <fonsinchen1> oh, I thought I cought them all ... I'll have a second look
01:28:56  <Belugas> the very last chunk of smallmap_gui, you removed the vehicle follow code
01:29:06  <Belugas> any reason why?
01:30:17  <fonsinchen1> cargodest does it
01:30:23  <fonsinchen1> I didn't change it
01:30:53  <fonsinchen1> Basically I took the smallmap from cargodest and modified to suit my needs.
01:31:32  <fonsinchen1> But I'll try to find out what the reason for that was.
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01:38:32  <Belugas> could eventually ask petern, but i guess it would be better to ask Celestar
01:38:57  <Belugas> SLEG_CONDVAR(		 _num_links,	      SLE_UINT16,      CAPACITIES_SV, SL_MAX_VERSION),
01:38:58  <Belugas> tabs
01:39:27  <fonsinchen1> thanks, I must have missed that
01:39:58  <Belugas> me eyes hurt... to many lines
01:40:09  <fonsinchen1> where?
01:41:58  <Belugas> in your patch, onmy screen, in from of my glasses
01:42:04  <Belugas> glass? rhum? yeah!
01:42:06  <Belugas> bye!
01:42:22  <fonsinchen1> ok, see you :)
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02:06:35  <Sacro> the most awesome monospace font ever - http://www.levien.com/type/myfonts/inconsolata.html
02:10:56  <thingwath> it looks too bright in my terminal
02:15:44  <Sacro> thingwath: hmmm
02:18:11  <thingwath> but yes, it's nice, I just want something darker :)
02:21:01  <thingwath> (I use Microsoft's Consolas :))
02:24:04  <thingwath> which should be very simmilar, but in gnome terminal it isn't, bug, possibly?
02:24:17  *** Gekz_ [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:24:46  <thingwath> or the freetype hinting issue?
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03:03:08  <Sacro> I do like consolas
03:03:13  <Sacro> perhaps
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03:33:24  <eMjay88> Anyone have any ideas of how to implement a fifo train intersection patch?
03:34:38  <eMjay88> I'm thinking you'd need to have a list of signals that enter a particular region, and then a simple queue that applies for that region
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03:35:49  <Sacro> Aye
03:35:59  <Sacro> argh
03:36:05  <Sacro> i need to use sudo when running my server
03:36:08  <Sacro> that sucks balls in screenshots
03:36:31  <Sacro> I guess I'll use sample output
03:36:33  <Sacro> not screenshots
03:38:43  <racetrack> eMjay88: I'm guessing currently it just does it in whatever order it loops through the trains right?
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03:39:38  <Sacro> racetrack: yep
03:40:28  <racetrack> that sounds right, attaching a queue to a signal block. trouble is that a signal block doesn't really exist as a discrete entity, its just the extent that ExploreSegment() goes looking
03:42:14  <racetrack> maybe you could do something with ExploreSegment() or something similar to go looking for all the signals attached to this block, and from there have a queue of all the vehicles waiting to enter the block. that'd need to be hooked up to the track layout changing though
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03:44:30  <Sacro> sounds expensive
03:46:50  <racetrack> yeah it does, doesn't it
03:48:11  <racetrack> maybe then you could somehow join signals to each other .. eg put them in a linked list of all the entry points into a block
03:48:33  <racetrack> then you're only doing heavy searching when you place them, and iirc that search already happens then anyway
03:48:55  <racetrack> I don't really have the code in front of me so I'm just speculating right now, but thats sorta where I'd start looking
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03:55:57  <eMjay88> unless you make a SignalBlock entity
03:56:05  <eMjay88> that gets generated when you place a signal
03:56:20  <eMjay88> and contains a list of signals that are "entries" and a list of "exits"
03:56:45  <eMjay88> that would also speed up regular signalling because you don't have to search everytime, right?
03:57:04  <racetrack> well the search every time is to find out if there's a train currently in the block
03:57:19  <eMjay88> is that every game loop? surely not
03:57:35  <racetrack> though you could track that in the SignalBlock too
03:57:41  <racetrack> nah only when a train wants to pass a signal
03:57:52  <racetrack> or leaves a block
03:58:04  <racetrack> and some other cases, but no, not every tick
03:58:48  <eMjay88> well then, when a train gets to a signalblock entrance, it registers itself in the "waiting" queue and the signal block greens the first signal in the queue when it becomes empty
03:59:32  <eMjay88> so I guess that moves the computation to when you're setting up the signals
03:59:52  <Sacro> would be nice to redo the signalling system
04:00:00  <eMjay88> but it may be slightly easier, instead of having to explore every branch for signals, you just have to find one and join that signal block
04:00:00  <Sacro> YAPP is very good but there needs another overhaul
04:00:08  <Sacro> to sort out signals on bridges/in tunnels
04:00:23  <eMjay88> :O that would be awesome
04:01:41  <eMjay88> ok, so tell me if i'm wrong here, when a signal is placed, it searches the track behind the light
04:02:02  <eMjay88> if it finds no other signal, it creates a new SignalBlock and adds itself
04:02:15  <eMjay88> if it finds another signal, it adds itself to the found signal's SignalBlock
04:02:29  <eMjay88> (as an entrance, exit or both)
04:02:58  <eMjay88> the SignalBlock then manages all the signals that are in it's list
04:03:06  <eMjay88> its list*
04:04:18  <eMjay88> does that sound like it would work?
04:04:48  <racetrack> yeah sounds reasonable
04:05:11  <eMjay88> sadly I have no idea how the signals work now, so no idea where to start :P
04:05:13  <racetrack> need to be able to merge them etc
04:05:21  <racetrack> if you delete a signal or whatever
04:05:23  <racetrack> haha
04:05:40  <racetrack> ExploreSegment() in signal.cpp is the big thing to understand
04:05:55  <eMjay88> oh yeah, so if a signal is removed, the SignalBlocks that it was an entrance and exit to get merged
04:06:11  <racetrack> and I only know about it because I've had to twist it quite a bit to get drive-through depots to work
04:06:20  <eMjay88> okie doke
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04:06:39  <eMjay88> I'll try to do some research soon (short on time lately :S)
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04:06:49  <racetrack> the basic gist is that code outside signal.cpp adds interesting tiles (eg the current location of a vehicle) to a set and then calls UpdateSignalsInBlock() (or something like that anyway)
04:06:58  <racetrack> which eventually gets down into ExploreSegment()
04:07:04  <racetrack> which loops through all the tiles/directions in the set
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04:07:18  <racetrack> for each one, it determines which tile to go to next and in which direction, and adds it to the end of the set
04:07:30  <racetrack> based on possible exits from that tile/track
04:07:48  <racetrack> with signals, depots, etc being "end of line" (ie nothing added to set)
04:08:07  <racetrack> while its doing this, its looking at each tile for trains and other interesting things and setting flags appropriately
04:08:17  <racetrack> so when if finishes, you get a set of bits describing what it found in the block
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04:13:30  <eMjay88> a set of bits...
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04:13:43  <eMjay88> like all the flags/enums?
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04:14:22  <racetrack> enum SigFlags in signal.cpp
04:15:00  <racetrack> http://docs.openttd.org/signal_8cpp.html#c8c365399f522623faf3be30c8344259
04:15:25  <racetrack> hmm this is very interesting
04:22:15  <eMjay88> ok, so which one gets called to initiate the update?
04:22:39  <eMjay88> a train adds all the track that it covers using AddTrackToSignalBuffer?
04:23:07  <eMjay88> then uses UpdateSignalsInBuffer?
04:25:17  <racetrack> UpdateSignalsOnSegment is used mostly ..
04:25:41  <racetrack> it usually starts at a single tile, the train doesn't need to add all the track it covers
04:25:49  <racetrack> the segment walker will sort all that out
04:26:30  <racetrack> TrainMovedChangeSignals looks like the main call in train_cmd
04:27:01  <racetrack> the other calls to UpdateSignalsOnSegment are a bit more situational
04:27:12  <racetrack> (reversing, leaving a depot, cleaning up after a crash)
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04:30:59  <eMjay88> So if I were to create a
04:31:06  <eMjay88> dammit, strike that
04:31:28  <eMjay88> ok, currently a Signal block is referred to as a signal segment right?
04:31:48  <eMjay88> ie: SIGSEG_FREE, SIGSEG_FULL, SIGSEG_PBS
04:31:54  <racetrack> yep
04:32:38  <eMjay88> and UpdateSignalsOnSegment returns the state of the segment that the tile that is passed in is in
04:32:52  * eMjay88 rereads
04:32:58  <eMjay88> yep, i think it makes sense :P
04:33:19  <racetrack> yes thats right
04:33:35  <racetrack> my first answer was "no", then I reread and reparsed all the ins and ises
04:33:43  <racetrack> :P
04:40:55  <eMjay88> what is the "Buffer" is that _globset?
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04:42:01  <racetrack> I think so
04:42:17  <racetrack> you load up the globset, transfer it into the tbdset and go searching
04:42:32  <racetrack> the assertions all over signal.cpp suggest its supposed to be that way
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04:43:12  <eMjay88> yeah from what I can see, you seed your search with _globset
04:45:34  <eMjay88> then, UpdateSignalsInBuffer populates _tbdset and calls ExploreSegment
04:49:43  <eMjay88> and ExploreSegment loops over the set of tiles in _tbdset looking for signal type tiles, adding them to _tbuset
04:50:22  <eMjay88> then using the flags that are returned from ExploreSegment, UpdateSignalsAroundSegment set the signal tiles in _tbuset
04:50:35  <eMjay88> am i right?
04:52:08  <racetrack> I think so. which is to say, it sounds pretty close to my own understanding but this code confused me for quite a while, and I deciphered it on my own. so there's a chance we're both completely off and we've never know
04:52:10  <racetrack> we'd
04:52:26  <racetrack> but it seems like a reasonably sane way to do it, so lets say it is
04:55:07  <racetrack> gtg, back later
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05:33:20  <Forked> coffee! :D
05:33:56  <goodger> huzzah
05:35:02  <eMjay88> just had one myself :P
05:38:46  <eMjay88> exit
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05:39:04  <goodger> *yawn*
05:39:06  <goodger> non-coffee
05:39:13  <goodger> I must find somewhere that sells relentless
05:45:59  <Sacro> hehe
05:46:02  <Sacro> the student drink
05:53:49  <goodger> well, I am a student
05:54:11  <goodger> I don't really love it as a drink, it's just the most concentrated source of caffeine I can find
05:54:20  <goodger> ...that isn't some form of coffee
05:55:03  <Forked> doh.. 2MB file limit on forums :\
05:56:28  <goodger> :(
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08:42:08  <Carved> is it possible to find out the seed number after starting the map?
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08:50:56  <dihedral> open the console and type getseed
08:51:05  <Forked> dumdidum. I need more coffee...
08:51:28  <dihedral> i am not sure though if the seed is stored in a save game
08:51:35  <dihedral> and if it is, it does not have to be correct
08:54:36  <Carved> okey, but thx :-)
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09:29:27  <DASPRiD> dihedral, afaik it is stored
09:29:49  <DASPRiD> its required for the landscape :)
09:30:04  <DASPRiD> tho i could be wrong
09:33:35  <dihedral> well, if the sav was created in the scenario editor, then the seed would be wrong :P
09:34:07  <petern> it's not required for anything after the map is created
09:49:36  <Forked> only two more posts and I'll have last post in all openttd forums... (except noai, but thats a subforum!)
09:51:09  <Rubidium> that's just because Hyronymus told to ignore newbies (and I reckon people who can't be bothered to read threads)
09:52:19  <Forked> my posts are not random gibberish :\  well except one of them
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10:12:52  <HackaLittleBit> x
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10:13:47  <dihedral> say it! click it!
10:14:44  <Forked> z
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10:15:14  <TodeLoo> Ok Ok playin a bit :)
10:16:11  <dihedral> so you need 2 clients? ^^
10:16:20  <TodeLoo> Todeloo is HackaLittleBit :)
10:16:24  <dihedral> i know
10:16:38  <TodeLoo> Testing Visual IRC
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10:23:01  <petern> # jesus christ
10:23:05  <petern> # save my life
10:23:17  <petern> # jesus chriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiist, save my life
10:23:18  <petern> hurr
10:23:59  <welshdragon> zomg petern don't sing, it'll rain
10:24:06  <welshdragon> and i have no raincoat
10:24:42  <petern> np: can - she brings the rain
10:25:04  <petern> # she brings the rain, oh yeah
10:25:05  <welshdragon> :(
10:25:14  <petern> # in the dawn of a silvery day
10:25:20  <dihedral> hey - just had an idea.....
10:25:20  <petern> # clouds seem to melt away
10:25:22  <petern> # she brings the rain, oh yeah
10:25:31  <dihedral> i assume you dont know which os most servers run on :-)
10:25:38  <dihedral> would be quite nice to gather that kind of data :-P
10:25:48  <petern> for whom?
10:25:55  <petern> i don't particularly care
10:26:08  *** Hendikins|SRA412 is now known as Hendikins
10:26:17  <welshdragon> dihedral: probably debian or Windows server
10:26:40  <petern> all the important servers (i.e. mine) run on debian
10:26:49  <dihedral> welshdragon, the OR is what i would like to know about ;-)
10:27:07  <dihedral> petern, the percentage of win -> lin -> mac servers would be interesting ^^
10:27:13  <petern> no it wouldn't
10:27:16  <petern> lunch would be
10:27:34  * petern wonders how long scan'll take getting back to him
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10:31:00  <petern> np: genesis - silver rainbow
10:31:11  * petern shall summon rain for welshdragon
10:31:49  * welshdragon summons snow for petern
10:32:06  <petern> :(
10:32:13  <petern> # to the land that lies
10:32:17  <petern> # beyond the silver rainbow
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10:33:23  * dihedral summons gay suicidal "muslim" (please note the quotes) virgins for petern and welshdragon
10:33:44  <petern> ...
10:33:47  <petern> what brought that on?
10:34:19  <welshdragon> dihedralshould be punished
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10:35:31  <dihedral> just some very dark sense of humor
10:39:39  <petern> didn't see anything funny there
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10:40:13  <welshdragon> nor did i
10:40:20  <welshdragon> it was quite racist actually
10:41:56  <dihedral> i did highlight the fact that i used quotes
10:42:25  <welshdragon> it can still be taken as a racist comment
10:42:27  <dihedral> wanting to express with that that they 'call' them selves muslim - but any real muslim is sadened by them
10:42:47  <petern> oh lol!
10:42:52  <petern> or not
10:42:53  <dihedral> whoever understood it as racism: sorry
10:43:05  <dihedral> not the intention
10:43:07  <petern> more like: whoever understood it: lucky
10:44:14  <dihedral> just like the "christians" you can meet in london on the road shouting out aloud "are you a sinner or a winner" - yay - they are just as rubbish, with the only difference that they dont blow themselves up and kill inocent people
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10:56:55  <petern> np: belle & sebastian - another sunny day
10:57:04  <petern> although
10:57:06  <petern> it's raining now :p
10:59:37  <eQualizer> If I want to make a new NewGRF, where do I start reading?
10:59:58  <petern> wiki.ttdpatch.net
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11:01:58  <eQualizer> Thanks.
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11:06:55  <racetrack> I'm really feeling like I'm starting to get my head around how openttd hangs together
11:07:01  <racetrack> thats probably pretty naive right?
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11:12:02  <dihedral> racetrack, then you are doing better than some other people who try to patch ^^
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11:15:48  <racetrack> yeah well it hasn't been easy
11:16:04  <racetrack> I have time at least
11:17:41  <racetrack> what's the criteria for getting feature patches into trunk?
11:17:57  <racetrack> won't be long before I consider drive-through depots to be finished enough for inclusion
11:18:05  <racetrack> bugs stamped out, a bit of testing by forumgoers, etc
11:21:04  <HackaLittleBit> racetrack did you check if your personal page is ok in the wiki because I was looking at the source and accidentally pressed submit. Hope I did not kill anything :(
11:22:23  <racetrack> HackaLittleBit: looks fine
11:22:30  <HackaLittleBit> Going to change to wiki like you did. Like it
11:23:43  <petern> you can view the history to see if anything was changed
11:24:12  <HackaLittleBit> Going to see that now
11:25:43  <racetrack> yeah, it didn't change
11:27:28  <HackaLittleBit> fhew :D
11:28:10  <petern> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/autocleannovehicles.diff
11:28:21  <petern> ^ get rid of old companies with no vehicles
11:28:24  <petern> (untested)
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11:29:26  <dihedral> petern, very nice... :-)
11:29:32  <dihedral> server side?
11:29:34  <petern> yes
11:29:53  <dihedral> you want me to patch my server and turn of the Player kick and see what happens after some time?
11:30:16  <petern> "want" it a bit much. you can test it if you fancy ;)
11:30:50  <dihedral> you know - i usually dont do anything to my server ^^ i am just offering, so if you'd appreciate it, i am happy to do it!
11:31:00  <dihedral> if you dont care, i wont either ^^
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11:31:59  <petern> certainly i would appreciate it
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11:32:21  <petern> it better stop raining by 1pm
11:32:35  <petern> how am i going to sneak off to the 'shops' if it's wet? :o
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11:36:47  <Rubidium> petern: only go to the web shops ;)
11:40:47  <racetrack> yay, trains I have trains driving straight through dtdepots without stopping unless the order says it should stop
11:40:57  <racetrack> nasty hack, I'll rework it a lot but its there
11:45:00  <Forked> woo!
11:45:34  <racetrack> signal stuff isn't done yet though, so lotsa crashing :)
11:45:56  <racetrack> the signal on the depot is good, trains will wait if there's already a train on the depot tile
11:46:10  <racetrack> but the presignal-like behaviour, looking behind the depot before entering isn't there yet
11:46:18  <racetrack> tomorrow I guess
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13:08:37  <petern> that was silly
13:10:32  <SpComb> did you reboot your server?
13:11:34  <Ammler> another nice thing releated to "autoclean" would be if you could unprotect unused companies but without reseting them.... (workaround now is to restart the server from time to time)
13:11:53  <petern> the broadcast address was wrong
13:11:56  <petern> so i tried changing it
13:11:58  <petern> BZZT :D
13:12:14  <petern> Ammler... you can
13:12:45  <Ammler> can you diable the autoreset without disabling autounprotect?
13:13:01  *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@g228026055.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
13:13:12  <petern> ...
13:13:48  <petern> just enable autoclean_protected and disable autoclean_unprotected
13:14:05  <Ammler> hmm
13:14:07  <petern> autoclean_protected merely removes the password
13:14:41  <Ammler> those settings are used for the timespan
13:15:05  <petern> 0 = off
13:15:21  <Ammler> he :-)
13:17:42  <petern> this is not new
13:20:00  <Belugas> good (same_timezone ? morning : day) all
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13:20:19  <Ammler> heya Belugas
13:20:31  <Ammler> petern: I will add that to the wiki then...
13:21:27  <Ammler> but petern, read that: http://wiki.openttd.org/Autoclean_companies
13:22:17  <Ammler> Ashus is wrong then?
13:24:50  <petern> yes
13:25:13  <petern> obviously 1 month is specified with the value 1...
13:26:21  <petern> it used to be that way
13:27:13  <petern> so maybe it was right in 2007 :p
13:29:09  <petern> indeed
13:29:13  <petern> it's that was in 0.6.3
13:29:20  <petern> so it's a new 0.7 feature
13:30:07  <petern> s/was/way/
13:32:04  <Belugas> oh boy.. Sirkoz is back :(
13:32:23  <dihedral> oh dearses
13:32:54  <dihedral> where is he? did he send you a pm in the forums or what?
13:35:30  <Belugas> nope
13:35:47  <Belugas> original vehicle grf in problmes
13:35:59  <Belugas> # TERRIBLE LIE!
13:36:51  <Ammler> does 0.7 features still need the "special" template?
13:38:40  * Belugas thinks that up until version 0.7 is not out , yes
13:39:29  <Sacro> grr, how to pass command line flags in VS
13:39:34  <Forked> in NIN mode are we?
13:40:00  <petern> sacro, project settings
13:40:00  <Sacro> nine inch nails?
13:40:12  <petern> # no you can't take away from me
13:40:26  <Sacro> zomg
13:40:34  <Sacro> VS can start the server and I can debug the client :o
13:40:41  <petern> yers
13:41:05  <Sacro> that's epic
13:41:09  <Sacro> saves me doing it
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13:42:23  <Sacro> ouch, my server just IOException'd :(
13:43:07  <petern> tut
13:43:13  <Sacro> Yeah, it shouldn't do that
13:43:14  <petern> # TERRIBLE LIE!
13:43:16  <petern> hehe
13:43:21  <dihedral> petern, does your patch need any config settings?
13:43:22  * Sacro shall catch the exception, and drop it :D
13:43:30  <petern> yes
13:43:34  <dihedral> which?
13:43:40  <petern> read the patch? :)
13:43:46  <petern> autoclean_novehicles
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13:47:40  <Belugas> ho.. auto clean... cool !
13:47:49  <Belugas> We'll have a car wash in game !
13:47:55  <Belugas> I love it!!
13:48:00  <Belugas> my car is so dirty :S
13:48:25  <dihedral> lol
13:48:38  * Sacro writes 'I wish my wife was this dirty' in the muck
13:48:54  <petern> # I WAS UP A BUNNY
13:49:07  <petern> Belugas, *no vehicles* :(
13:49:14  <Belugas> :D
13:49:31  <petern> also misheard as
13:49:34  <petern> # HOW IS EVERYBODY
13:49:38  <Belugas> i know, petern, i know...  i'm teasing you
13:49:40  <Belugas> tea
13:49:42  <Belugas> mm...
13:49:43  <Belugas> i
13:49:45  <Belugas> 'm
13:49:49  <Belugas> coffeing you!
13:49:57  <planetmaker> :P
13:50:00  <petern> coffeesing!
13:50:02  <petern> :D
13:50:21  <Belugas> lol
13:50:42  <petern> # rain rain go away, come again some other day
13:50:44  <petern> i tell you
13:50:48  <petern> he didn't write these lyrics"!
13:51:07  <petern> where has my typing ability gone all of a sudden?
13:52:33  <Gekz> no u
13:53:57  <petern> english only
13:54:59  <Belugas> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=42520  <-- one thing that can be said about the guy, is that he is imaginative.  Too bad it's ... futile everytime
13:55:31  <petern> seems a reason idea to add to the game play
13:55:37  <petern> i'm not going to do it though :)
13:56:40  <petern> hmm, problem with rebooting earlier... had openttd servers going :o
13:57:33  <petern> ah, autosave saves the day
13:57:57  <Belugas> you think it's a good idea? (suggetion, i mean)
13:59:36  <Hendikins> Stupid question. Is it possible to table a vehicle to remain at a stop for x days /or/ until full?
13:59:39  <petern> it's not bad, as such
14:00:12  <Hendikins> (simply so it isn't sitting there if there is backlogged cargo)
14:01:01  <petern> as least it's business/financial related, rather than yet another gratutious 'realistic' visual effect
14:01:04  <petern> *at
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14:03:51  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15845 /trunk/src/engine_type.h: -Fix: Ancient comments
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14:09:36  <Belugas> yeah, i guess you're right about that
14:09:48  <Belugas> but ho boy... what a thrill it will be to code :S
14:09:57  <Belugas> sarcastically speaking
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14:11:43  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
14:15:45  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15846 /trunk/src/music_gui.cpp: -Fix: shuffle button text alignment was based on the wrong widget
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14:19:42  <petern> well
14:20:03  <petern> we can let someone else do that :)
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14:22:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15847 /trunk/src/lang/ (49 files in 2 dirs): -Fix (r15837): the 'title' text of the music gui would be drawn big and in blue instead of small and in black
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15:02:44  <petern> # you're so physical
15:03:30  <Rubidium> I haven't even touched you, so how can I be physical?
15:04:55  <petern> HOW DOES IT FEEL
15:05:00  <petern> crap
15:05:01  <petern> hmm
15:05:08  <petern> membershipprovider evilness :/
15:05:25  <Noldo_> sounds .netish
15:06:07  <petern> yes
15:06:15  <petern> i need to authenticate with one
15:09:03  *** Turnskin [~x@vpn-pool-78-139-218-161.homenets.tomtelnet.ru] has joined #openttd
15:09:11  <Turnskin> Hi all
15:11:11  <Turnskin> Colleagues, i have a question about ver. 0.7b more.
15:11:28  <planetmaker> then you should go ahead and ask your question :)
15:11:44  <Turnskin> (it was prologue :)  )
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15:11:54  <petern> it was, indeed, not a question.
15:12:18  <glx> what version is it?
15:12:27  <Turnskin> It seems for me that trains (as well as other stuff) in saves remembers all settings.
15:12:37  <planetmaker> Turnskin: that's by design
15:12:40  <Noldo_> but?
15:12:52  <Turnskin> And the wait_before_one|two_waysignal too.
15:12:56  <planetmaker> has been this way and will stay that way.
15:13:02  <Turnskin> Yep
15:13:04  <Turnskin> But!
15:13:10  <glx> you can change them
15:13:22  <Turnskin> This setting about is not aviable from menu, isn't it?
15:13:27  <Yexo> you can change the ingame values by using "set" in the console, so "set wait_before_onewaysignal <newvalue>" will change it
15:13:38  <glx> it's "patch"
15:13:39  <Turnskin> All 3 wait_before_a_signal ones.
15:13:41  <Yexo> leave out <newvalue> to see the current value
15:13:51  <Yexo> glx: patch is just an alias since 0.7
15:13:55  <planetmaker> glx: in 0.7.x "set" should be the preferred word :)
15:14:02  <glx> really?
15:14:07  <glx> I didn't know :)
15:14:12  <planetmaker> :D
15:14:18  <Yexo> operation remove-all-references-to-patch-setting changed it :)
15:14:24  <planetmaker> "patch" is only an alias afaik
15:14:42  <planetmaker> for all those old-timers around here :P
15:14:51  <Noldo_> \o/
15:14:58  <Turnskin> Yexo This way my question melted as a ghost :)
15:15:27  <Turnskin> i never used console yet :(
15:15:42  <planetmaker> the key left of "1" opens it
15:15:45  <Ammler> hehe, I saw another usage of console comamnd "patch" already in the forums ;-)
15:16:39  <Yexo> Ammler: patch -p0 < some_patch.diff ?
15:16:44  <planetmaker> and also closes it :)
15:16:49  <Turnskin> BTW now i plan to make an experiment of realism of a game (i saw a phrase in chantopic, but woldn't flame).
15:17:07  <planetmaker> uhh.... r***** !
15:17:08  <Ammler> Yexo: but didn't work, is that now implemented in 0.7? :P
15:17:23  <Yexo> feel free to play a 'realistic' game, just don't try to get new features in *only* because they are realistic
15:17:32  <Yexo> :)
15:17:38  <planetmaker> :)
15:17:47  <planetmaker> well said IMO :)
15:17:51  <Turnskin> I'm interesting in a situation: does the length and a curve of a path before and after a slope influence to the speed enough?
15:18:12  <planetmaker> depends upon the definition of "enough"
15:18:16  <glx> depends on the curve
15:18:20  <Turnskin> I'm completely agree!
15:18:20  <Yexo> possible if you have "realistic-acceleration" turned on
15:18:26  <planetmaker> :)
15:18:58  <Ammler> Yexo: maybe rename to nicer-acceleration ;-)
15:19:09  <Turnskin> Yep. vaggons' speeds on, acc-on on and other - only ON :)
15:19:41  <Ammler> everything on
15:20:41  <Turnskin> I'm trying to set at least 1 straight tile before and after every slope 1st. Then, i make at least 2 straightway tiles for downstairs path.
15:21:20  <Ammler> and using a newgrf of course...
15:21:36  <planetmaker> Turnskin: an s-curve won't hurt speed
15:21:58  <Turnskin> And i'm trying to don't make much curves after any slope .
15:22:05  <planetmaker> but if two turns in the same direction are found within the train's length it has an effect
15:22:15  <Turnskin> planetmaker Like-\_ ?
15:22:28  <Yexo> no, like \_/
15:22:29  <planetmaker> that's an s-curve afaik
15:22:44  <Turnskin> Uhm.
15:23:06  <Ammler> well, slow-down is also "realistic", imo
15:23:19  <planetmaker> \_/ = same direction; _/- = s-curve
15:23:38  <planetmaker> may ascii-art live long and prosper
15:23:53  <Turnskin> Good bless it! Amen.
15:24:14  <planetmaker> Turnskin: the wiki has a page concerning curve length. It should be reasonably up2date
15:24:16  <Ammler> \_/=2 direction changes
15:24:43  <planetmaker>  /\ = 90° = impossible ;) (witht the right setting turned on)
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15:25:47  <Turnskin> But as for me, it _looks_ unrealistic when a path turns at straight after/before a slope. So now my mind is trying to understand that TTD is not the real life :(
15:26:01  <Ammler> 2 s-cuves are also a slow-down.
15:26:16  <Sacro> Ammler: damn right, or you'd lose your drin
15:26:20  <Sacro> +k
15:26:31  <planetmaker> Ammler: for the simple reason that two same-turn curves then can be within the train's length
15:27:19  <Turnskin> My slow-downs are at least 5 tiles in lenght and 3 in width. Every loop :(
15:27:36  <Belugas> [11:19] <Yexo> feel free to play a 'realistic' game, just don't try to get new features in *only* because they are realistic  <--- I drink to that!
15:27:45  <planetmaker> Turnskin: ?
15:27:59  <planetmaker> cheers, Belugas :)
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15:28:22  <Ammler> Mister Realistic in person :-)
15:28:29  <petern> curve speed limits need fixing
15:28:36  <planetmaker> why, petern ?
15:28:37  <petern> they are broken currently
15:28:48  <petern> they're based on number of wagons, not curve length
15:29:25  <planetmaker> hm, yes. True. But does that need fixing?
15:29:26  <Belugas> [11:27] <Turnskin> But as for me, it _looks_ unrealistic when a path turns at straight after/before a slope. So now my mind is trying to understand that TTD is not the real life :(  <--- it's pretty easy :)  Just remember it's a game
15:29:31  <Ammler> petern: currently=since realistic_acceleration?
15:29:46  <petern> pretty much :p
15:29:57  <petern> though i think shorter vehicles were introduced later
15:30:01  <planetmaker> hrhr
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15:30:26  <petern> planetmaker, main problem is the speed applies when the vehicle gets to the second bend...
15:31:02  <planetmaker> petern: why is that the problem? If I'm speeding a tight s-curve, I may make the first, but will fail the 2nd :)
15:31:10  <petern> ok
15:31:13  <petern> that's another problem...
15:31:30  <Turnskin_> Something like "New vision and experiences of train routing and station building in OTTD ver. 0.7".
15:31:32  <planetmaker> same for U -type curves. I'll fail not in the first part, but later
15:32:15  <Turnskin_> Well, good bye for now.
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15:32:19  <planetmaker> cu
15:32:41  <Ammler> well, he isn't the first playing that "style"
15:35:15  <Belugas> it's not a syle, it's an illusion
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15:55:14  <Forked> must.. resist.. giving.. bastard answer.. to.. Leanden :\
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16:02:37  <planetmaker> http://tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/graphics <--- these industry graphics just look great... :)
16:02:43  <planetmaker> Forked: I was nice to him...
16:03:08  <Forked> I was thinking about giving a link to the search function as well as link to the wiki article for say .. mingw
16:03:18  *** Maarten is now known as Guest12
16:03:38  <Forked> but yes, you were pretty nice :)
16:03:55  <planetmaker> but it's indeed quite thick to propose to just create the jack-of-all-trades OpenTTD compiler :)
16:04:15  <Forked> "linux"? :p
16:04:29  <Forked> eek, gotto run.
16:04:41  <planetmaker> Well... not even the official compile farm could do what he proposes.
16:05:03  <Rubidium> it even doesn't apply patches ;)
16:05:13  <planetmaker> that's what I meant :)
16:05:27  <planetmaker> otoh: YOU apply constantly further patches ;)
16:05:35  <planetmaker> but people tend to call that trunk ;)
16:05:56  <Rubidium> the CF only likes tars with source files
16:06:23  <planetmaker> he :)
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16:08:59  <Belugas> yeah... Leanden is someone with special ideas
16:09:32  <Belugas> but the amount of work he want to se achieved just for someone to not work and enjoy is... insane
16:09:35  <Belugas> like
16:09:41  <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=775702#p775702 <--- oh yeah... special
16:10:06  <Belugas> yeah.. makes no sens at all...
16:11:10  <planetmaker> I'm tempted to reply along the lines of "by actually transforming an idea into reality" ;)
16:11:29  <Yexo> I even searched his posts, but I couldn't find him suggesting something along those lines
16:11:54  <Yexo> I know it has been suggested before, but Zuu actually made it instead of only suggesting things
16:11:57  <planetmaker> :) I think it was suggested before his suggestion-spree started.
16:12:14  <planetmaker> yeah... which is pretty nice of him :)
16:12:24  <planetmaker> (of Zuu)
16:14:16  <Belugas> pom te pom
16:14:21  <Belugas> let's make things clear :)
16:16:43  <planetmaker> hehe, Belugas :)
16:16:58  <planetmaker> nice one
16:17:22  <planetmaker> or not so... which actually makes it nice again... hm... a paradox :P
16:17:47  <planetmaker> not nice = nice --> nice = 0
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16:18:08  <planetmaker> also wrong ;)
16:18:25  <Yexo> #define not(a) a
16:18:26  <Yexo> :)
16:21:13  <Belugas> i just hate when things are not clear.  So, Leanden, no more riddles!  expose your face!
16:21:19  <Belugas> and don't come to IRC...
16:21:32  <Rubidium> Belugas: /ignore?
16:22:34  <Belugas> no :) /kick
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16:22:58  <Belugas> mmmh on the other hand, it would be less a user...
16:23:05  <Belugas> so.. yes, /ignore
16:23:23  <planetmaker> 0.75 per mille of the daily downloads ;)
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16:25:57  <petern> +q
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16:26:33  <Belugas> mmh... powerfull command...
16:26:58  <petern> worked for that guy :p
16:27:38  <Belugas> yeah :D
16:28:50  <Belugas> wow... discovering Something I Can Never Have
16:28:54  <Belugas> never heard it before
16:28:55  <Belugas> cool :D
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16:30:01  <Belugas> +q
16:30:12  <Belugas> damned :(
16:30:45  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15848 /trunk/src/ (network/network_server.cpp settings_type.h table/settings.h): -Feature: Add autoclean_novehicles setting which will, when autoclean_companies is true, remove any company with no vehicles and no active client after autoclean_novehciles-months.
16:31:41  <dihedral> petern, nice :-)
16:34:03  *** ToDeLoo [~ToDeLoo@195-23-22-254.net.novis.pt] has quit []
16:34:12  <Belugas> haaa... finally!
16:34:33  <planetmaker> Belugas: ?
16:34:38  <dihedral> the commit
16:34:47  <Belugas> no!
16:34:51  <planetmaker> :)
16:34:53  <Belugas> [12:35] * Quits: ToDeLoo (~ToDeLoo@195-23-22-254.net.novis.pt)
16:34:54  <dihedral> yes
16:35:01  <Belugas> [12:31] <@Belugas> +q
16:35:08  <Belugas> I HAVE THE SAME POWER!!!
16:35:12  <dihedral> hehe
16:35:12  <petern> :D
16:35:15  <planetmaker> :D
16:35:24  <planetmaker> who is that person?
16:35:24  <dihedral> ToDeLoo sounds like he needs to go to the toilet
16:35:36  <dihedral> it was hackalittlebit
16:35:50  <planetmaker> oh...
16:36:03  <dihedral> perhaps now he's gonna sulkalittlebit
16:36:04  <dihedral> ^^
16:36:50  <planetmaker> hm... was hackalittlebit annoying? Cannot remember him quite...?
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16:51:30  <dihedral> Belugas, ping
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16:59:40  <planetmaker> pong... pong........... pong......................................................
17:00:11  <HackaLittleBit> they ran away :)
17:04:47  <glx> petern: IIRC there was a FS number about your latest commit
17:05:18  <glx> not exactly the same thing though
17:07:59  <glx> hmm it seems muxy never submit his patch on FS
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17:20:22  <petern> can't see one
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17:23:53  <glx> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=39971 but he never posted his patch
17:24:34  <glx> your version is safer for people with unstable connection :)
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17:33:52  <Ammler> do you really need to check the vehicels, is there no other way to see, if someone is/was active
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17:36:43  <petern> hm
17:36:45  <Ammler> if someone joins, builds and then leave for dinner, after dinner, his company is gone :-)
17:37:59  <Ammler> well, he might be bankrott anway then...
17:38:02  <dihedral> Ammler, and if the company is gone, he did not have any vehicles, and can start again
17:38:22  <petern> there's company::num_vehicles
17:38:30  <petern> but that's a vehicle for each engine type
17:38:35  <petern> err
17:38:37  <petern> s/vehicle/value/
17:38:51  <Ammler> before I buy a vehicle,  I build some tracks...
17:39:10  <dihedral> petern, configurable minimum per vehicle type ^^
17:39:18  <petern> ahaha
17:39:20  <petern> no :)
17:39:25  <petern> Ammler, here's a tip
17:39:26  <dihedral> you must have 100 trains :-D
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17:39:54  <petern> if you want to leave your empty company around while you go for dinner, play on servers which don't have it on
17:40:41  <petern> i'd rather have less unused companies clogging the player list stopping others playing
17:40:50  <dihedral> same here
17:40:51  <petern> (okay, so that's less likely with with 15 companies)
17:41:04  <dihedral> those companies are just not worth it
17:41:04  <Ammler> can't you not just check the company value?
17:41:09  <dihedral> no
17:41:21  <dihedral> because some companies have tracks, etc and they leave and never come back
17:41:22  <dihedral> that sucks
17:41:25  <petern> what good would that do?
17:41:27  <Yexo> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=775737#p775737 <- He really is angry because "I came up with the this idea"
17:41:42  <dihedral> + you can configure the number of months Ammler
17:41:42  <petern> you'd build your tracks, your company value would stay at 1...
17:41:47  <petern> then you'd go for lunch
17:41:48  <dihedral> like with every auto clean
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17:41:51  <petern> and still be cleaned up
17:43:03  <petern> gah
17:43:14  <petern> stupid forum search engine strips words less than 3 characters
17:43:15  <petern> like
17:43:16  <petern> AI
17:43:19  <petern> orudge, fix it
17:44:12  <petern> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=446589#p446589
17:45:18  * petern posts it
17:46:17  * dihedral commented also ^^
17:46:38  <Belugas> pong
17:46:42  <Belugas> pong
17:46:56  <Belugas> pong popopopopong
17:47:27  <Belugas> #one of these days i'll cut you in little pieces
17:48:26  <Yexo> you guys were a bit faster with finding a relevant thread ;p
17:52:04  <Belugas> i wanted to add that i came up with the idea of going to the toilet early in the morning and that my son came up witht he same, but since i was the first to hit the bowl the idea was mine but...  i guess it would have been a tiny bit out of place...
17:58:39  <Ammler> well, you could still credit your ...Àhm... with the son name :P
18:00:04  <Ammler> shit made by Belugas, invented by Littlegas
18:05:42  <Ammler> I miss the credits window on the start menu...
18:06:04  <Ammler> or called About
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18:23:39  <petern> lol
18:23:46  <petern> he only went and bumped that old topic :o
18:25:35  <petern> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=775757#p775757
18:25:37  <petern> hehhehheh
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18:35:02  <Belugas> wooohoo!!  Sirkoz, you're really the best!
18:35:19  <Belugas> when it comes to being a clown, that is...
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18:39:47  <Forked> got to love the internet :)
18:40:04  <Forked> meh. playing openttd with a mousepad on a laptop sucks :\
18:40:14  <Forked> also the ingame sounds made the dog start barking
18:40:18  <petern> a mousepad, eh?
18:40:34  <Forked> you know those pads that are under the space bar on laptops..
18:40:43  <Forked> touch sensitive to move the cursor around
18:40:48  <Forked> I might be using the wrong word(s) :)
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18:43:54  <thingwath> touchpads?
18:44:28  <Forked> perhaps!
18:45:28  <petern> yeah
18:45:32  <petern> mousepads are things you put a mouse on
18:46:11  * orudge remembers mouse pads
18:46:17  <orudge> I don't think I have any any more
18:47:13  <Forked> oh right
18:47:19  <Forked> sorry :)
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18:50:59  <petern> play me old king cole
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18:52:50  <petern> # la la la la la, la la la la la laaaaaaa
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18:59:13  <petern> # she's a lady, she's got time
19:00:03  <totalwormage> # ohh, but in the morning, in the morning haze!
19:00:49  <totalwormage> hm, not haze, light, otherwise it wouldn't rime with night
19:01:47  <petern> rime, eh?
19:02:00  <totalwormage> do'h
19:02:22  <totalwormage> ahh get this keyboard away from me, it's typo evening
19:04:43  <petern> # they are invincible
19:04:55  <petern> # they seem immune to all our herbicidal battering
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19:17:56  <Wolf01> hello
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19:21:17  <petern> # you can't last long
19:33:15  <Ammler> isn't downloading everything disabled?
19:33:23  <Ammler> (on bananas)
19:34:23  <Yexo> no, there is just no "download-all" button
19:34:28  <Rubidium> Yexo: lies!
19:35:13  <Yexo> hmm?
19:35:19  <Rubidium> there is one when listing missing newgrfs Which is in my opinion the only valid situation for a select all button
19:35:59  <Ammler> ah ok, you can still and acutally need to select all with console...
19:36:17  <petern> you need to?
19:36:54  <Ammler> not possible to select special grfs, well, I am not. :-)
19:37:30  <petern> it is
19:37:55  <Ammler> yeah, I know, that is why I said, I am not able...
19:38:06  <petern> content select nnn
19:38:19  <Ammler> nnn is quite hard for me to determine
19:38:31  <petern> why?
19:39:03  <petern> it's not exactly hidden
19:39:03  <Ammler> it need the id of a list you get with "content state", I guess
19:39:13  <petern> well yes
19:39:36  <Ammler> well, I already said, I am not able to....
19:39:42  <Ammler> :-)
19:39:56  <Ammler> it might work for others...
19:40:07  <petern> great
19:40:10  <petern> works for me
19:40:50  <Ammler> that is fine :-D
19:40:51  <Rubidium> Ammler: have you READ the help?
19:41:14  <Ammler> did you change something?
19:41:48  <Rubidium> no
19:41:56  <Rubidium> works for me too though
19:42:25  <Ammler> how do you select a specific grf?
19:42:47  <Ammler> "content select <grfid>" ?
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19:44:49  <Ammler> maybe It works now, I had some other issues too, with firewall and so...
19:45:10  <petern> the content state list gives you nnn
19:45:14  <Ammler> dunno, if I tested it with the id after I fixed the fw
19:45:23  <Rubidium> Ammler: you don't
19:47:19  <Ammler> it also seems like if you define a min/max version, it doesn't respect hg versions or other special things...
19:47:44  <Ammler> but that might be more the case for the uploader to think about...
19:47:53  <Rubidium> Ammler: the maximum/minimum version is the version that OpenTTD gives to NewGRFs
19:48:17  <petern> hg versions are non-numerical and non-sequential...
19:49:17  <Ammler> maybe it is possible to ignore max/min if openttd version isn't a numerical one?
19:50:07  <Ammler> hmm, how works the version check in the newgrfs for those?
19:50:18  <Rubidium> EXACTLY the same
19:50:58  <Rubidium> (as described in the NewGRF specs)
19:51:01  <Belugas> no more no less.  not a byte more. not a byte less. AND NO BUTS
19:51:59  * petern ponders a bout of the lamb
19:52:32  <Rubidium> petern: good idea
19:52:51  <Belugas> with mint sauce
19:52:54  <Belugas> on broadway
19:53:15  <Rubidium> broadway stinks
19:54:19  <Ammler> Rubidium: so DJNekkid set max version for 2cc?
19:54:34  <Ammler> as the hxxx should be higher anyway...
19:55:07  <Rubidium> it sets a minimal version
19:55:30  <Ammler> but then it should be listed on a hg client?
19:56:03  <Ammler> at least grfs don't complain about the rev
19:56:04  <Rubidium> not if it can't detect the svn revision
19:56:23  <petern> # AND THE LAMB
19:56:42  <petern> # lies down
19:56:46  <petern> # on broadway
19:56:53  <petern> i had lamb pie for dinner
19:56:55  <petern> but it was crap
19:57:06  <petern> it was tiny bit of lamb with chunks of manky veg pie
19:57:31  <Ammler> I see, nvm ;-)
19:58:04  <petern> oh my
19:58:05  <Rubidium> revision detection works fine for trunk hg
19:58:12  <petern> playing on dihedral's server... with no newgrf
19:58:17  <petern> quiant
19:58:20  <petern> quaint too
20:00:13  <Rubidium> the 2cc set even shows up with a trunk hg build
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20:01:00  <Yexo> I guess it won't show up with a trunk build from before 0.7 was split off
20:01:24  <petern> something solid forming in the air
20:01:47  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15849 /trunk/src/ (fontcache.cpp fontcache.h gfx.cpp gfx_func.h): -Codechange: provide easy access to the real height of the used fonts
20:02:01  <petern> i'm hovering like a fly
20:02:07  <petern> hm
20:02:22  <Belugas> And the wall of death is lowered in TIme Square
20:02:28  <Belugas> Noone seems to care
20:02:40  <Belugas> they carry on as if nothing was there
20:02:54  <Belugas> the dust settles on my skin
20:03:05  <Belugas> making a crust I cannot move in
20:03:10  <Belugas> ...
20:03:25  <Belugas> waiting for the windshield on the freeway
20:03:36  <Belugas> ABSOLUTELY LOVELY!!!
20:03:42  <petern> yes
20:04:32  <petern> # he knows
20:04:39  <petern> # in a scent you can bottle all you made
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20:08:39  <Ammler> Yexo: seems so
20:08:57  <Ammler> is it possible to see, which version the uploaded set?
20:09:05  <Ammler> uploader*
20:09:12  <Yexo> only for the uploader
20:09:36  <Ammler> then we need to blame DJNekkid :-(
20:09:55  <Yexo> no, you don't
20:10:35  <Ammler> it looks like he set a min version, doesn't?
20:10:35  <Yexo> const uint32 _openttd_newgrf_version = 0 << 28 | 8 << 24 | 0 << 20 | 0 << 19 | (@@REVISION@@ & ((1 << 19) - 1));
20:11:00  <Yexo> that way the version is determined, with an hg build @@revision@@ is 0, which makes the version lower than every 0.7 nighty
20:11:40  <Yexo> since the 0.7 split, the 7<<24 was changed in 8<<24, making the revision higher than every 0.7 nighlty, regardless of the actuall revision (so even with hg the version is higher)
20:11:56  <Ammler> he?
20:12:05  <Rubidium> Yexo: with hg the svn revision is detected, as long as it's an official hg repos
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20:12:33  <Yexo> in that case it should work with hg builds from before the 0.7 split
20:12:50  <Ammler> Rubidium: it works also with is2 branch now
20:12:54  <Ammler> with tip
20:13:19  <Rubidium> Yexo: if the top commit isn't an offical trunk commit it's likely to not work
20:13:45  <Ammler> openttd is fine
20:13:59  <Ammler> it is just djnekkid set useless min version :-)
20:14:22  <Ammler> as his grf would work with all bananas versions
20:15:19  <Ammler> I am wondering what he set... :-)
20:16:34  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15850 /trunk/src/ (build_vehicle_gui.cpp subsidy_gui.cpp): -Codechange: replace some magic constants with the less magic line height constant
20:16:48  <petern> the grand parade of lifeless packaging
20:16:50  <petern> just need a fuse
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20:20:45  <petern> # aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
20:20:49  <petern> # you say i must be crazy
20:20:57  <petern> # cos i don't care who i hit (who i hit)
20:21:04  *** prakti [~myself@port-213-148-152-8.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:21:12  <petern> # i'm iiii'm not full of shit
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20:26:46  <artart78> hello
20:27:11  <artart78> I tried to compile svn but I have an error: 'Error: No available language packs (invalid versions?)'
20:27:38  <Yexo> try rm -r bin/lang and recompile
20:28:41  <artart78> same thing
20:28:59  <artart78> (and directory lang is re-created but nothing is in it)
20:29:23  <artart78> tried to cp objs/lang/*.lng bin/lang/ but same thing
20:29:45  <Yexo> can you try to remove objs/lang/*
20:30:01  <Yexo> for some reasons the language files are not recompiled when they should
20:30:36  <artart78> make: *** /home/artart78/jeux/svn/openttd/objs/lang: Aucun fichier ou dossier de ce type. Arrêt. (No file or directory of this type. Stopping.)
20:31:15  <artart78> it recreate it when I do configure
20:31:20  <Yexo> ok
20:32:16  <artart78> then it creates files in bin/lang/
20:32:19  <artart78> but.. same error
20:32:51  <Ammler> make mrproper
20:33:00  <Yexo> can you try to recompile everything? make mrproper && ./cofigure && make
20:34:06  <artart78> ok
20:34:34  <artart78> compiling..
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20:35:07  <petern> got to get in to get out
20:36:14  <Belugas> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=42521  <--- was he sarcastic? or honestly thanking us?
20:36:40  <Yexo> I can't tell
20:37:53  <Ammler> Sulai once tried to make something similar
20:38:01  <artart78> yay!! it works
20:38:03  <artart78> thanks
20:38:22  <artart78> so, now, let's try to apply the 32bpp patch..
20:39:23  <artart78> ..and it doesn't work :/
20:39:43  <petern> you don't need a patch for 32bpp...
20:40:05  <artart78> but why is there a patch for it ??
20:40:22  <Yexo> there is a patch for extra zoom levels, which only work with 32bpp graphics
20:41:53  <artart78> how to use 32bpp ?
20:42:07  <Belugas> once upon a time, some devs with a furious envy to do something useful, got toguether and created 32bp for trunk
20:42:22  <Belugas> and then... it ended up in trunk
20:42:25  <Belugas> Amen
20:42:34  <Ammler> LEGO
20:42:43  <Prof_Frink> MECCANO
20:42:44  <petern> hehe
20:42:52  <petern> sad fact is
20:42:57  <petern> there is no complete set of 32bpp graphics
20:43:00  <Yexo> artart78: read http://wiki.openttd.org/Playing_with_32bpp_graphics
20:43:13  <petern> (nobody created 32bpp graphics, because the game didn't support it)
20:43:29  <petern> (then suddenly the game did support it, and still nobody created (much) 32bpp graphics)
20:43:38  <Ammler> still possible there is a 32bpp replacment before 8bpp replacment ;-)
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20:43:58  <Yexo> http://wiki.openttd.org/List_of_downloadable_32bpp_tars <- downloadable 32bpp graphics
20:44:03  <artart78> petern: there's a lot of 32bpp graphics but some doesn't work, and they are in a lot of files..
20:44:08  <Belugas> but now, they know under which copyright (gpl or else) it will be published :D
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20:48:21  <artart78> going to bed
20:49:40  <Ammler> Rubidium: if you won't support for grfid in the bananas download, maybe it is possible to add the grfid the list at least, so you could grep the list for?
20:50:11  <Belugas> grep a gip
20:50:13  <Belugas> hem...
20:50:22  <Belugas> get a grip
20:50:29  <Belugas> hem
20:50:35  <Belugas> shut up /me
20:50:38  <Ammler> ah, you know, what I mean :P
20:51:15  <Belugas> no. nor what use it would be
20:51:19  <Belugas> but that's just me
20:51:40  <Ammler> or a filter like you have with the gui would rock
20:52:14  <fonsinchen> Ouch ... when the number of stations in a connected component approaches about 100 the time needed to calculate all the paths for the cargo distribution problem can be measured in hours.
20:52:30  <fonsinchen> Well, it seems I have to find another algorithm.
20:53:48  <Ammler> don't you like, how the cargodest branch did it?
20:54:43  <fonsinchen> no
20:54:48  <fonsinchen> it only uses one path
20:55:00  <petern> ah, pathfinding
20:55:28  <fonsinchen> if you want to use many paths in parallel you have to think about it as a multi commodity flow problem
20:55:49  <fonsinchen> I actually tried to make it a circulation problem instead, but that one had very strange properties
20:56:09  <fonsinchen> People wouldn't have liked how cargo would have behaved there ...
20:56:55  <fonsinchen> Yet there are many heuristics for MCF. You don't have to solve it exactly
20:57:06  <fonsinchen> So, I'll find a way
20:57:59  <Belugas> make it unreal
20:58:07  <Belugas> always anice approach
20:58:12  <Belugas> random destination!
20:58:38  <fonsinchen> random destinations are nice, but unpredictable destinations aren't
20:58:56  <fonsinchen> unpredictable meaning: you add one edge and everyone goes somewhere else
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21:10:00  <Belugas> ho boy
21:10:03  <Belugas> Dear, i'
21:10:04  <Belugas> ll
21:10:10  <Belugas> be a bit late :(
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21:18:25  <HackaLittleBit> Good evening everybody :)
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21:22:36  <Belugas> tick tock
21:22:38  <Belugas> time to go
21:22:42  <Belugas> night night
21:22:47  <petern> ta ra
21:22:48  <Belugas> i'm on the go
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21:35:34  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15851 /trunk/src/fontcache.cpp: -Fix (r15849): compile failure when there's no freetype...
21:36:06  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15852 /trunk/src/ai/ai_gui.cpp: -Codechange: New widgets for the AI windows.
21:36:27  <petern> ah
21:36:35  * petern reverts his old dynamic scrollbar patch
21:36:51  <Rubidium> dynamic scrollbar patch?
21:37:00  <petern> yar
21:37:10  <petern> one that removed the bjarni-isms
21:37:29  <petern> such as a lot of duplication
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21:38:00  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:38:16  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15853 /trunk/src/waypoint_gui.cpp: -Codechange: New widgets for the waypoint gui.
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22:07:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15854 /trunk/src/tree_gui.cpp: -Codechange: New widgets for build tree window.
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22:28:26  <petern> it was old, as in pre-c++ ;)
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22:33:18  <petern> cool
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22:33:29  <petern> so some stuff already works with bigger fonts :D
22:34:48  <petern> when do the old widget lists get removed? heh
22:37:14  <petern> also
22:37:23  <petern> are all the widget updates done, just waiting to be split/etc
22:37:29  <petern> or are they being done as and when?
22:38:18  <Yexo> a lot of windows still need conversion to the new widget system
22:38:26  <Yexo> when all all done the old widget system can be removed
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22:41:30  <petern> hmm, is there an implied vertical container?
22:41:36  * planetmaker ponders to give my tt-forums ignore list a 2nd entry...
22:41:57  <planetmaker> this leander guy is just a pain...
22:42:36  <Yexo> petern: there is NWID_VERTICAL, but WWT_PANEL also defaults to vertical
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22:49:46  <kalasmannen> heya, i was just woundering, is there a way to get the gm-files from the DOS-version of openttd
22:49:49  <kalasmannen> ?
22:50:09  <Yexo> no
22:50:21  <kalasmannen> i have a recently bought re-relase of the game, but it seems that it contains the original dos-files
22:50:27  <kalasmannen> argh, thats sad
22:50:37  <Yexo> openttd doesn't support the music files from the dos version
22:50:51  <kalasmannen> ah, i see
22:51:12  <kalasmannen> thanks
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22:52:10  <Ammler> kalasmannen: google could convert them to windows ;-)
22:54:14  <planetmaker> lol
22:54:37  <planetmaker> mother google runs so many nice services... ;)
23:00:14  <petern> hmm, done it wrong :/
23:00:20  <petern> w->type == WWT_LAST failed :o
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23:03:20  <kalasmannen> Ammler: hah, i wish :P
23:03:53  <kalasmannen> very wierd though, that a re-relase has the old dos-files
23:04:01  <kalasmannen> and yet, a windows executable
23:04:12  <Yexo> petern: WWT_PANEL needs an EndContainer(), that's the mistake I made a lot
23:04:45  <kalasmannen> i may have misunderstood it, but when you read the install-instructions, i have the files that are labeled as the dos-versions files
23:04:48  <kalasmannen> and no gm
23:07:09  <petern> uh huh
23:07:11  <petern> but it does :o
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23:35:50  <petern> i might give up :o
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23:38:57  <Yexo> which window were you trying to update?
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23:51:33  <petern> newgrf :)
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23:56:51  <petern> what does this->index refer to at the point of assert?
23:59:38  <Yexo> the widget index

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