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00:13:29 *** sigmund_ [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 00:15:16 *** sigmund [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:51:07 *** MapperOG [~michael@p57B2DFB9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:01:34 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.19.44.128] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- \o/] 01:49:42 *** NekoMaster [~NekoMaste@bas15-toronto12-1168008717.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 01:49:51 <NekoMaster> hellow 01:49:55 <NekoMaster> Hello 01:50:03 <MapperOG> hi 01:50:34 *** Dred_furst [~Dred@resnet710.bournemouth.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:50:56 <MapperOG> O Canada 01:52:19 <NekoMaster> YAY! i love my country 01:52:32 <NekoMaster> though USA gets kudos for Obama :D 01:53:21 <NekoMaster> anywyas 01:53:34 <NekoMaster> who here is here for Trains 01:54:51 <NekoMaster> hmm? 01:55:31 *** NekoMaster [~NekoMaste@bas15-toronto12-1168008717.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] 01:58:37 <MapperOG> :D 01:58:43 <MapperOG> Canadafag 02:00:00 <Aali> that guy figured out how to use IRC? 02:00:24 <Aali> if he ever comes back when there's more than two people awake, things will get interesting 02:00:40 <De_Ghosty> it never get intresting 02:00:45 <De_Ghosty> all i ever get is 02:00:50 <De_Ghosty> code it yourself :o 02:01:18 <Aali> so go do it already, don't waste time in this channel 02:07:33 <MapperOG> :D 02:25:23 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@80.247.163.137] has left #openttd [] 02:29:24 *** Audigex [~audigex@78.148.238.235] has quit [] 02:32:02 *** sigmund [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 02:33:51 *** sigmund_ [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:50:34 *** subzero22 [Matt@67-61-240-50.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 02:51:16 <subzero22> hi 02:55:31 *** MapperOG [~michael@p57B2DFB9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:00:29 *** glx_ [~glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:a872:1cd7:5e86:5aef] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:08:57 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:11:16 *** DaleStan [~Dale@c-98-223-48-35.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:12:40 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 03:35:02 *** michi_cc [7cde446925@dude.icosahedron.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:38:57 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:42:03 *** Klanticus [~quassel@189.35.191.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:42:41 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 03:42:49 *** DaleStan [~Dale@c-98-223-48-35.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 04:05:46 *** Sionide [sionide@cornflakes.imen.org.uk] has quit [Quit: Getting off stoned server - dircproxy 1.0.5] 04:05:47 *** Patrick [~quassel@mikearthur.co.uk] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 90 seconds.] 04:07:27 *** Sionide [sionide@cornflakes.imen.org.uk] has joined #openttd 04:07:44 *** Patrick_ [~quassel@mikearthur.co.uk] has joined #openttd 04:44:22 *** tkjacobsen [~tkjacobse@pppoe2-ves.broadcom.dk] has joined #openttd 04:47:02 *** eQualizer [~lauri@dyn12-192.dsl.spy.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:06:33 *** tkjacobsen [~tkjacobse@pppoe2-ves.broadcom.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:09:35 *** eQualizer [~lauri@dyn12-192.dsl.spy.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 05:29:26 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@a82-95-167-159.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 05:42:31 *** michi_cc [e1674a1c29@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 05:42:34 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 05:52:24 *** sunkan [sunkan@sunkan.bsnet.se] has joined #openttd 06:44:53 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 07:44:03 *** MapperOG [~michael@p57B2DFB9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:56:41 *** racetrack [~racetrack@c114-76-9-162.eburwd4.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 07:57:03 *** Fenris [~fenris@p5B0D727E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:15:29 *** wolfy [~Wolfenste@dhcp-077-251-185-139.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 08:25:57 *** yeocheol [~selina@66.55.8.54] has joined #openttd 08:25:57 *** yeocheol [~selina@66.55.8.54] has left #openttd [] 08:51:49 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAE9876.bae.pppool.de] has joined #openttd 08:58:02 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@a82-95-167-159.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:58:54 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@a82-95-167-159.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 09:00:00 <petern> TrueBrain, it continues :D 09:03:16 *** bobo_b [~bobo_b@tiberius.ze.tum.de] has joined #openttd 09:09:04 *** TinoDid [~projectjj@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 09:12:02 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAE9876.bae.pppool.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:13:46 *** bobo_b [~bobo_b@tiberius.ze.tum.de] has quit [Quit: bobo_b] 09:14:42 *** bobo_b [~bobo_b@tiberius.ze.tum.de] has joined #openttd 09:15:07 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:17:03 *** DaleStan [~Dale@c-98-223-48-35.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:36:48 <TrueBrain> petern: no, it is no longer ranting; now it became flaming 09:38:23 <TrueBrain> in fact, normally people get warnings for such attitude on the forums ... 09:38:24 <Noldo> where? 09:38:56 <dihedral> on the forums 09:39:27 <Noldo> what was the topic? 09:47:43 <Forked> I can't find the flaming :\ 09:47:55 <TrueBrain> people are nosy ... 09:48:12 <Forked> bored at work :p 09:48:18 <dihedral> TrueBrain, you want them to be, else you would not be talking about it all the time ^^ 09:48:42 <TrueBrain> dihedral: no, I was talking to petern, which the word 'petern:' before me starting the talk did suggest :p 09:48:47 <TrueBrain> like that line was for you, not for Forked 09:49:17 <dihedral> yep, but you do know this is a public channel :-P 09:49:19 <dihedral> :-D 09:49:22 <TrueBrain> WHAT?! 09:49:31 <dihedral> i think so..... 09:49:33 <Forked> I could argue that if it was for petern only you could have used /msg instead of telling everybody what you're really only telling one person. :-) BUT! I'll try not to and instead actually do some work. 09:49:47 <TrueBrain> Forked: enjoy :p 09:50:30 * dihedral hugs TrueBrain 09:50:38 <TrueBrain> ieuw 09:50:43 <TrueBrain> not in public 09:50:46 <Forked> I failed.. still here :\ 09:50:55 <TrueBrain> Forked: good choice .. work is boring :p 09:51:36 <TrueBrain> dihedral: ieuw 09:51:37 <TrueBrain> not in private 09:51:38 <dihedral> :-D 09:51:42 <dihedral> HAHA 09:51:54 <Forked> is he hugging you in private places? 09:51:56 <Forked> :\ 09:51:59 * DorpsGek hug TrueBrain 09:52:01 <TrueBrain> :'( 09:52:04 <TrueBrain> I feel violated 09:52:31 <TrueBrain> dihedral: stop abusing DorpsGek 09:52:31 <dihedral> violated is the wrong word i think :-P 09:52:40 <Forked> quick, someone rickroll TrueBrain .. 09:54:10 <jonty-comp> ._. 09:55:43 <Xaroth> yrrble 10:03:36 *** kingj is now known as KingJ 10:04:08 <TrueBrain> so, anyone made anything nice today? 10:04:22 <SpComb> ate ice cream outside 10:04:31 <TrueBrain> I did that yesterday :p 10:04:46 <SpComb> with the ice floating on the sea 10:04:49 <Forked> lunch in 25 minutes.. out on the roof where I work. We have ordered take-away :-) 10:05:18 <TrueBrain> haha :) 10:05:33 <TrueBrain> last time, we wanted to order pizza and get it delivered to us inside a DataCenter 10:05:37 <TrueBrain> :p 10:05:48 <SpComb> give them the rack address 10:06:26 *** Timmaexx [~chatzilla@port-92-192-24-130.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 10:07:06 <Forked> how stable does it sound if one use a practice grenade (so it's not loaded or anything) for opening beer bottles? 10:07:19 <Forked> I have these pictures.. and it occurs to me that we might look a bit insane 10:07:31 <TrueBrain> Forked: 'might'? 10:07:53 <Forked> it's not loaded.. 10:08:14 <dihedral> TrueBrain, tcl coding :-D 10:08:17 <TrueBrain> but I doubt it is a matter of 'might' look insane .. I am sure it LOOKS insane :p 10:10:29 <Forked> so about that flaming, where!?!?1+ :p 10:11:29 <orudge> Burger King 10:11:31 <orudge> flame grilled burgers! 10:11:35 <TrueBrain> hmmmm 10:11:38 <TrueBrain> don't give me idea orudge!! 10:11:43 <orudge> heh 10:20:23 *** Timmaexx [~chatzilla@port-92-192-24-130.dynamic.qsc.de] has left #openttd [] 10:21:07 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: ordering a pizza to evoswitch? 10:21:17 <Xaroth> last time we were there somebody actually delivered a pizza there 10:21:18 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: that has to be fun! :) 10:21:56 <TrueBrain> but we decided to find some real food in Haarlem 10:22:08 <Xaroth> though i'm not sure whether that was for the reception people or for actual engineers 10:23:18 *** Klanticus [~quassel@143.107.181.10] has joined #openttd 10:23:43 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BB6F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:25:34 *** pavel1269 [~quassel@r2ao16.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 10:30:28 *** Klanticus_ [~quassel@143.107.181.10] has joined #openttd 10:30:29 *** Klanticus [~quassel@143.107.181.10] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:32:23 *** Klanticus_ [~quassel@143.107.181.10] has quit [] 10:32:44 *** Klanticus [~quassel@143.107.181.10] has joined #openttd 10:35:11 *** TinoDid is now known as TinoDidriksen 10:37:23 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g226211017.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 10:47:07 *** Klanticus [~quassel@143.107.181.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:51:43 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:52:15 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 10:57:08 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@galadriel.td.mw.tum.de] has joined #openttd 10:57:11 <Celestar> hey peops 10:58:14 * Celestar needs help 10:59:02 <MapperOG> yo 10:59:43 <Celestar> yo :D 11:00:56 <Rubidium> I thought you already finished your higher education ;) 11:01:03 <MapperOG> psychiatrie is fine? 11:01:04 <Rubidium> and hello Celestar ;) 11:02:37 <Celestar> Rubidium: how are you? 11:02:41 <TrueBrain> it is a ..... Celestar! 11:02:48 * TrueBrain starts running putting on his best cloths 11:02:55 <TrueBrain> oh, I need to take a shower 11:02:58 <TrueBrain> wait, quick, my hair! 11:03:01 <TrueBrain> hi Celestar ;) 11:03:16 <Celestar> hi TrueBrain 11:03:33 <Rubidium> Celestar: annoyed by the terrible weather 11:03:34 <Forked> holy crap it's Celestar 11:03:37 <Celestar> (= 11:03:37 <dihedral> CELESTAR ;_) 11:03:43 <dihedral> how nice of you to visit :-) 11:03:46 <TrueBrain> as you can see, Celestar, you are missed :p 11:03:53 <dihedral> greatly ^^ 11:03:56 * Celestar blushes 11:03:56 <Forked> with his backwards smileythingies 11:05:11 <TrueBrain> so with what you need help? 11:05:20 <Celestar> syncing cargodest against trunk 11:05:28 <TrueBrain> painful job :) 11:05:37 * Celestar is used to pain 11:05:39 <Celestar> :P 11:05:57 <TrueBrain> awwhhhh 11:06:00 <Celestar> my stomach hurts terribly at the moment 11:06:06 <Celestar> from laughing 11:06:08 <TrueBrain> stop hitting your stomach 11:06:10 <Xaroth> o_O 11:06:26 <Celestar> I had an ... encounter .. with ESA's IT department. 11:06:44 <TrueBrain> you walked into a satelite? :p 11:06:44 <Rubidium> intra terrestrials ? 11:06:53 <Celestar> cuz a colleague of mine is just at one of their sites. 11:07:13 <Celestar> he couldn't log to our cluster (which he needs for computations), since the ESA firewall blocked outgoing ssh traffic 11:07:21 <Celestar> "for security reasons" 11:07:25 <TrueBrain> LOL 11:07:32 <Celestar> so was asked them what traffic was considered safe 11:07:39 <Celestar> (i.e. ports are open) 11:07:47 <Rubidium> 135, 137, 139? 11:07:51 <TrueBrain> 23! 11:07:51 <Celestar> worse 11:07:53 <Celestar> 23! 11:07:55 <TrueBrain> HA! 11:07:55 <Celestar> 25! 11:08:02 <Forked> 443? 11:08:02 <Celestar> 80! 11:08:03 <TrueBrain> FAIL! 11:08:05 <Celestar> 443 was ok 11:08:13 <Forked> sshd on 443 then .. always works :p 11:08:22 <Celestar> nah we put it on 23 :P 11:08:24 <TrueBrain> you can't ssh, but you can telnet! Much more secure! 11:08:37 <Forked> let me just type my password here then aaand it's gone! 11:08:45 * Celestar made a mental note note to fly to space with ESA 11:08:53 <TrueBrain> tnx for the warnings Celestar :) 11:09:05 <TrueBrain> I hope they don't do the firewall of the IIS communication :p 11:09:11 <Celestar> Rubidium: dunno about 135-139 since none of the university routes route netBIOS traffic ;) 11:09:48 <Celestar> but ok. of course telnet is safe and ssh isn't 11:10:02 <Celestar> that's why Windows still ships without an ssh client but with a telnet client :P 11:10:33 <TrueBrain> "Windows Vista is the most secure OS out there" 11:10:35 <Rubidium> well, with telnet there can be no man-in-the-middle-attack 11:11:00 <TrueBrain> (a quote I read yesterday, but some guy up in the MS hierarcy) 11:11:10 <Celestar> TrueBrain: considering how difficult it is to connect Vista to any kind of network, that may actually be true. 11:11:33 <Celestar> Rubidium: how so? cuz no one uses it anymore? 11:11:34 <TrueBrain> the reasoning after it was a bit flawed, but okay .. with narrow vision, you can claim a lot of things :) 11:11:58 <TrueBrain> no encryption, so no use of man-in-middle-attack :p 11:12:23 <Celestar> "most people have a mental horizon that is a circle of radius zero. That's what they call their 'point of view'" 11:12:55 <TrueBrain> Celestar: anyway, you join at a nice time to ask for a sync of cargodest :) 11:13:04 <Celestar> how so? ;) 11:13:12 <Rubidium> Celestar: telnet is a broadcast protocol; it broadcasts the information to everyone, so instead of a man in the middle there's everyone in the middle 11:13:19 <Celestar> lol 11:13:36 <SpComb> and does ESA use hubs for its internal network as well? 11:13:52 <Celestar> no, because carrier pigeons are point-to-point 11:13:52 <Forked> they call them hubbles 11:14:03 <Rubidium> SpComb: only satelites and radio waves 11:15:36 <Celestar> oh another story. I was on a page of a _very_ large germany company. For online purchases, they had some page to enter your credit card. Only parts of the page were https, the rest http (ok for the images). However, I discovered that the site wasn't protected against any kind of cross-site scripting. Being I good boy, I e-mailed the webmaster about the security hole. Answer: "What is cross-site scripting?" 11:16:07 <Noldo> :) 11:16:43 <TrueBrain> Celestar: last time I emailed someone for that, I got flaimed for trying to hack into their site and I don't know what more .. 11:16:49 <Celestar> rofl 11:17:07 <Celestar> it's nice to be back here. too many idiots out there in the real world 11:17:34 <MapperOG> :D 11:17:45 <MapperOG> you don't know me, do you? :p 11:17:51 <Celestar> no. 11:18:07 <blathijs> ey Celestar! :-) 11:18:13 <Celestar> heya blathijs 11:19:00 <Celestar> I had some guy recently who told me he's been coding C++ since the 70s :P 11:19:12 <Rubidium> nice ;) 11:19:31 <Rubidium> then I've been coding OpenTTD since the 80s 11:19:56 <SpComb> or he meant the C/C++ language 11:20:22 <TrueBrain> Celestar: timebubbles! I tell you! 11:20:32 * Celestar wants a timebubble 11:20:41 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAE9876.bae.pppool.de] has joined #openttd 11:20:44 * TrueBrain gives Celestar a hug instead 11:20:51 <Celestar> better :D 11:23:29 <Rubidium> Celestar: you should move to Harajuku, Tokyo when you want lots of free hugs 11:23:47 <Celestar> Harawho? 11:24:49 <Forked> also japan are pretty good at high speed internet (at least inside japan..) 11:26:21 <Rubidium> Celestar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obNdA9WXwzU 11:26:38 * jonty-comp sneezes 11:26:40 <Rubidium> http://www.flickr.com/photos/fumi/907873023/ 11:27:11 <Celestar> Rubidium: er .. is this work safe? 11:27:34 <Rubidium> if hugging is safe at your work then yes 11:27:48 <Rubidium> well, and excentric people need to be safe too 11:31:41 <Rubidium> why did google make their 'street view' early in the morning when Harajuku bridge is boring? 11:31:46 <Celestar> Rubidium: is it ok for the cargodest branch to set the saveload revision to 1000 for the tim being? 11:32:02 <petern> ARGH 11:32:05 <Celestar> and set it to current++ if there is a merge in 2025? 11:32:08 <Celestar> hey petern ;) 11:32:22 <petern> how the fuck do you turn off firefox trying to 'correct' entries in text inputs? 11:32:36 <TrueBrain> how did you get that on in the first place? 11:32:37 <Rubidium> not quite sure whether 1000 is possible right now (SL_MAX_VERSION being 255 etc) 11:32:44 <Celestar> 250 then :P 11:32:52 <petern> well 11:33:03 <petern> i have it remember what i used previously 11:33:07 <petern> because generally that's useful 11:33:08 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: why is that 255? :p 11:33:30 <petern> but then i want to put in something slightly different to a previous entry, and it changes it to that previous entry 11:33:52 <TrueBrain> petern: ah, you mean that feature .. that is fucking annoying :p Moving to the left or right sometimes help .. or clicking somewhere else .. 11:34:32 <petern> sometimes, sometimes not 11:36:16 <planetmaker> u... I sense a long lost presence in this channel :) 11:36:21 <planetmaker> Hello celestar :) 11:37:48 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: ask DV? 11:38:12 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: when removing 'minor' version, I thought we had set that value to 65535 too .. oh well .. still possible ;) 11:41:41 *** NukeBuster [~wouter@80.101.115.82] has joined #openttd 11:45:25 <Xaroth> petern: you can always hover over the entry and then press delete..it removes the entry from it's database. 11:46:20 <jonty-comp> ooh, my cygwin has hg installed 11:46:23 <jonty-comp> I didn't know that 11:46:30 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: undocumented feature? :p 11:46:32 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.23.217.2] has joined #openttd 11:46:35 * jonty-comp checks out the infrastructure sharing thing 11:51:18 *** Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd 11:51:41 <Yexo> hello 11:51:49 <TrueBrain> Yexo!!! 11:51:52 <TrueBrain> where have you been? :) 11:52:34 <Xaroth> ugh, sf takes ages to approve a project 11:52:41 <Yexo> few days at my parents house, busy with uni work the last 2 days 11:52:58 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: why try? 11:53:12 <TrueBrain> Yexo: important things :) 11:53:19 <Xaroth> tb: so i have a 'public' svn for AutoTTD. 11:53:30 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: SF sucks :( 11:53:36 <Xaroth> TB: yes. 11:54:34 *** glx [~glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:d478:810a:3f14:be59] has joined #openttd 11:54:37 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 11:54:37 * Rubidium wonders how many commits you can do a day on SF 11:54:38 <TrueBrain> morning glx 11:55:01 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: seen the speed of their subversion, I say ... 4 commits a day :p 11:55:18 <Xaroth> ugh 11:55:29 <jonty-comp> use googlecode! :D 11:55:34 <TrueBrain> even worse .... 11:55:37 <jonty-comp> :p 11:56:06 <Xaroth> i'll use my own home server for development then.. use sf for public updates 11:56:46 <Xaroth> not like it'll have a lot of data anyhow 11:56:47 <glx> hello 11:57:17 <Rubidium> Xaroth: uploading OpenTTD's binary at 20 kBps is done faster than setting up a release on SF 11:57:34 <Rubidium> doing the SF release takes the most time of an OpenTTD release 11:57:48 <Rubidium> and most of that is spend waiting on pages to refresh 11:57:55 <Xaroth> Rubidium: yeh, so i noticed 11:57:58 <Rubidium> very slowly 11:57:59 <glx> Xaroth: use hg and start hg serve when you want to share your stuff :) 11:58:00 * TrueBrain still thinks we should set up a 3rdparty section on openttd.org :p 11:58:14 <Xaroth> glx: hg? 11:58:29 <glx> mercurial 11:58:35 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 11:59:21 <Rubidium> Googlecode: 8.3 Google reserves the right (but shall have no obligation) to pre-screen, review, flag, filter, modify, refuse or remove any or all Content from any Service <- looks pretty... uhm... "we own you" to me 11:59:43 <TrueBrain> it does 11:59:58 <Xaroth> google is known to cover their asses in 20 meters of concrete 12:00:07 <dihedral> put up some nazi stuff, and you'll know why they reserve that right ^^ 12:00:12 <Xaroth> just like their appserver project 12:00:15 <TrueBrain> which should keep you away from Google with 20 miles distance :p 12:00:15 <glx> and if they like it they "steal" it ? 12:00:50 <dihedral> glx: not if it's under gpl :-P 12:00:51 <jonty-comp> that wouldn't be too great for PR though 12:01:17 <glx> dihedral: of course it's allowed by gpl 12:01:22 <Rubidium> dihedral: but what if you agree to license them to do "anything" with it? 12:01:27 <TrueBrain> jonty-comp: they just pay you to shut up :p 12:01:58 <Rubidium> 11.1 By submitting, posting or displaying the content you give Google a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive licence to reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute any Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services <- dihedral like so 12:02:24 <jonty-comp> hehe 12:02:25 <TrueBrain> an other "we own you" :p 12:02:30 <dihedral> Rubidium, YUCK :-D 12:02:33 <jonty-comp> they own us anyway :D 12:02:33 <glx> IIRC it's the same for gmail 12:02:37 <TrueBrain> but I believe there were 3 of them :p 12:02:45 * jonty-comp has used GMail since it was released :( 12:03:11 *** maristo [~maristo@host217-114-156-151.pppoe.mark-itt.net] has joined #openttd 12:03:21 <TrueBrain> glx: worse: even with Chrome 12:03:26 <Xaroth> glx: Mercurial sounds too much effort for such a small thing. 12:03:35 * jonty-comp has used Chrome since it was released :( 12:03:42 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: it is much easier in setup and usage, but also in publishing 12:03:48 <TrueBrain> subversion is .. a bit out-dated ;) :p 12:03:56 <TrueBrain> jonty-comp: you should reconsider who you trust :p 12:04:03 <jonty-comp> meh 12:04:11 <Rubidium> TrueBrain, something like: 19.2 You understand and agree that if you use the Services after the date on which the Universal Terms or Additional Terms have changed, Google will treat your use as acceptance of the updated Universal Terms or Additional Terms. 12:04:14 <Xaroth> easier?!? 12:04:23 <Xaroth> it took me 2 minutes to set up apache2 with svn 12:04:32 <jonty-comp> I just wish someone would fix windows so it doesn't splutter and die when faced with a few thousand .svn files 12:04:34 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: hg init 12:04:35 <Xaroth> looking at how to use mercurial with svn took me longer than that :/ 12:04:36 <TrueBrain> hg add * 12:04:37 <TrueBrain> hg commit 12:04:39 <TrueBrain> hg serve 12:04:41 <TrueBrain> easier it can't be :) 12:04:43 <Rubidium> i.e. whenever Google really wants to own you, they just change the license 12:04:59 <glx> no need to set up a web server for hg 12:05:00 <Gekz> Rubidium: then you say fuck that 12:05:03 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: which, lucky for us Dutchies, is invalid in any ToS 12:05:03 <Gekz> and recompile Chrome 12:05:06 <glx> it provides it's own 12:05:07 <Gekz> without the license 12:05:19 <dihedral> TrueBrain, apt-get install apache2 libapache2-mod-svn subversion :-P 12:05:30 <Rubidium> and that ofcourse goes to your gmail account, so when they tell it has changed via an email you already agreed to it 12:05:41 <glx> TrueBrain: you forgot hg init ;) 12:05:47 <Xaroth> glx: he didn't 12:05:49 <TrueBrain> glx: no, you didn't read all I said :p 12:05:56 <Xaroth> anywho 12:06:02 <glx> oh right 12:06:04 <dihedral> ^^ 12:06:05 <Gekz> Rubidium: DOOMSAYER 12:06:06 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: either way, the reason why Mercurial wins from Subversion, is that it is much more lightweigted .. and .. decentral :) 12:06:09 <jonty-comp> msvc is annoyingly slow 12:06:28 * Xaroth shrugs 12:06:29 <Rubidium> jonty-comp: cross compiling OSX is more annoyingly slow 12:06:29 <glx> jonty-comp: don't build release version 12:06:35 <LUADuck> Does 0.7.0 have any known bugs? 12:06:47 <jonty-comp> perhaps I should try out Mercurial, I didn't bother before because I only just got the hang of subversion :o 12:06:48 <glx> yes 12:06:49 <TrueBrain> LUADuck: without doubt: yes 12:06:53 <LUADuck> lol 12:07:04 <Xaroth> There are ALWAYS bugs 12:07:12 * jonty-comp points at known-bugs.txt 12:07:12 <TrueBrain> well, Xaroth, not always 12:07:14 <Xaroth> the only perfect application is Hello World. 12:07:19 <TrueBrain> I once wrote a patch which removed ALL bugs from OpenTTD 12:07:19 <LUADuck> We've got a few clients with disconnects due to "wrong company-id in DOCOMMAND" 12:07:24 <LUADuck> any traces? 12:07:28 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: rm -rf / ? 12:07:29 <Gekz> Xaroth: it could be better optimised for size 12:07:29 <TrueBrain> but .. it end up doing nothing at all :p 12:07:32 <Rubidium> jonty-comp: that's lame 12:07:33 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: kind of ;) 12:07:38 <glx> LUADuck: probably cheaters 12:07:45 <LUADuck> Xaroth: Bash has rm -rf / protection nowadays 12:07:52 <LUADuck> Not cheaters, trusted clients 12:07:52 <Gekz> thats shit 12:07:52 <Rubidium> people ought not to read that, just like they ought not to read the readme 12:07:53 <glx> or not clean 0.7.0 12:07:55 <Xaroth> Gekz: not a bug tho :) 12:08:05 <petern> there's a bug that happens if you start/load a game on a server while players are connected 12:08:10 <Gekz> Xaroth: it could be a void init 12:08:21 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm103.psi148.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 12:08:24 <Xaroth> Gekz: yes, but it's still not a bug :) 12:08:27 <LUADuck> All is fine after a map load here 12:08:31 <LUADuck> (with clients) 12:08:33 <Xaroth> nothing is not working as designed. 12:08:41 <Xaroth> as such, hello world is bug-free :) 12:08:43 <LUADuck> Xaroth: What? :V 12:08:53 <Xaroth> LUADuck: different conversation. 12:09:02 <Gekz> Xaroth: is a bug 12:09:05 <Gekz> results in a warning 12:09:10 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: I once had a buggy Hello world application 12:09:12 <TrueBrain> Java :( 12:09:16 <Gekz> haha 12:09:17 <Gekz> java 12:09:18 <jonty-comp> java :( 12:09:20 <glx> Xaroth: I can add bugs in hello world 12:09:26 * jonty-comp has an intense dislike for java 12:09:30 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: hah! 12:09:33 <Rubidium> what are "trusted clients"? 12:09:42 <TrueBrain> jonty-comp: I join you in that group :) 12:10:09 * Rubidium rather has Java... 12:10:09 <jonty-comp> agh, stupid msvc web browser 12:10:36 <Rubidium> ... than *.NET 12:10:53 * Xaroth rather has C# than Java. 12:10:53 <jonty-comp> well, quite 12:10:56 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: haha, one evil doesn't country out an other evil :) 12:11:04 <TrueBrain> country = counter 12:11:16 * jonty-comp rather has .NET than Java anyday, but it is stil lesser of two evils 12:11:20 <Xaroth> yep 12:11:25 <Xaroth> right 12:11:26 <glx> .NET is nice for windows only development 12:11:33 <Xaroth> glx: I use .net on unix. 12:11:41 <TrueBrain> glx: I dislike you need to install a N MiB size thingy before you can run such ap 12:11:48 <glx> Xaroth: try WPF in mono ;) 12:11:54 <Xaroth> ew wpf 12:12:12 <Xaroth> WPF.. WINDOWS p..something foundation 12:12:16 <Xaroth> not MPF :) 12:12:27 <Gekz> Windows Forms 12:12:31 <Xaroth> anyhow 12:12:44 <Xaroth> in the time that sourceforge has not yet accepted my project 12:12:50 <Xaroth> i had 2 cups of tea 12:12:59 <Gekz> :o 12:12:59 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: it can take up to 24 hours 12:13:00 <Xaroth> a chat with my colleagues.... and installed viewsvn on my home pc. 12:13:03 <TrueBrain> that are a lot of cups of tea :p 12:13:26 <Xaroth> oh, and spent an hour not on work *whistles* 12:13:26 <jonty-comp> or one very large cup of tea 12:13:46 <Xaroth> and even updated my dyndns, hrr hrr 12:16:14 <Xaroth> http://xaroth.is-a-geek.net/viewsvn/ 12:16:39 <Xaroth> ... i really need to sort out my coding 12:16:44 <TrueBrain> ieuw, ugly svn viewer 12:16:44 <Xaroth> especially when i code late at night O_O 12:16:49 * Rubidium wonders whether suo belongs in a repository 12:16:56 <Celestar> sigh 12:16:59 <Celestar> not easy :S 12:17:01 *** joachim [~joachim@244.81-166-176.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 12:17:05 <Xaroth> Rubidium: I use that repo to move data from home to work 12:17:07 <Zr40> Rubidium: it does not. 12:17:13 <Xaroth> it'll even have .exe/.pdb/.dll 12:17:32 <Gekz> .pdb 12:17:35 <Gekz> plucker 12:17:37 <Gekz> lolwhut 12:17:46 <joachim> hi 12:18:28 <Xaroth> I.. abuse my SVN for file-sharing etc :) 12:18:33 <joachim> does anyone know if there is a later version of aircraft queueing than r12231? 12:18:43 <Rubidium> Xaroth: logging in at home as Administrator? 12:19:11 <Yexo> joachim: if you can't find it on the forum thread you're out of luck 12:19:15 <joachim> ok 12:19:20 <Xaroth> as a full access user, yes 12:19:21 <Yexo> only thing you can try is pming the author of that patch 12:19:31 <planetmaker> wth is "aircraft queuing"? 12:19:37 <Rubidium> and your work has Dutch Windows? 12:19:40 <Xaroth> no 12:19:58 <Xaroth> laptop does :/ 12:20:09 <joachim> planetmaker: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=15502 12:20:12 *** MapperOG [~michael@p57B2DFB9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:20:20 <Rubidium> there where you're not admin ;) 12:20:47 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@62.73.249.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:20:51 <Celestar> Rubidium: where's the list of download stats? :P 12:20:52 <Xaroth> i'm an admin on all my machines 12:21:15 <Rubidium> Celestar: make an educated guess where openttd.org/'s stats would be 12:21:36 <Celestar> wee 12:22:10 <TrueBrain> pee 12:22:14 <Celestar> but that'S not yet the download stats :P 12:22:32 <TrueBrain> www.openttd.org/en/ ... guess what follows ;) 12:22:43 <Xaroth> Rubidium: why do you ask? 12:23:00 <Celestar> huh huh 12:23:16 <Rubidium> Xaroth: because there's lots of private data in some of those MSVC generated files 12:23:43 <Xaroth> yep 12:23:50 <TrueBrain> I am already hacking into his computer as we speak 12:23:53 <TrueBrain> nice porn collection Xaroth 12:23:56 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: i doubt that 12:24:23 <TrueBrain> lol 12:24:25 <Xaroth> Rubidium: it becomes quite useless when you open and commit those files from so many different machines 12:24:36 <LUADuck> Xaroth: What the porn 12:24:51 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: remote hard drives, which aren't connected to my pc atm ;) 12:25:14 <Rubidium> Mister Steven N. it will actually become more interesting; knowing you are sometimes Administrator, well... let us try to find a remote exploit 12:25:35 * Xaroth shrugs 12:26:06 <Rubidium> it'll be fairly easy to set up a server that you would scan while being admin 12:26:46 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@62.73.249.23] has joined #openttd 12:28:47 <Rubidium> this._startDate = DateTime.MinValue.AddDays(data._startDate - 366); 12:28:52 <Xaroth> yes 12:28:57 <Rubidium> I love those kinds of lines without comments ;) 12:28:58 <orudge> 34.01GB of IPv4 bandwidth since 15th for tt-forums, 806.15MB of IPv6, fun stuff 12:29:06 <Xaroth> Rubidium: I don't comment when I'm coding at night 12:29:47 <LUADuck> orudge: That's a lot of porn 12:30:20 <Zr40> hot aircraft on train action 12:30:23 <Rubidium> that's almost as much as OpenTTD 12:31:37 <Rubidium> sounds like your bandwidth usage has increased quite considerably lately though 12:32:22 <Celestar> crappy comp 12:32:24 <Celestar> compiles slow 12:33:06 <Rubidium> in the "donate to the forums" 2009 edition you're talking about about 6 GB of bandwidth a day 12:33:45 <Celestar> hey orudge :D 12:33:48 <Rubidium> 6 GB a day over 2008 and 4 GB a day over 2007 12:35:10 <Celestar> Rubidium: we're doing 10GB of traffic per day now? O_o 12:35:21 <Rubidium> though I must say OpenTTD has seen almost a doubling in bandwidth since January 12:35:32 <Rubidium> Celestar: easily 12:35:53 <Celestar> nice 12:35:55 <Celestar> :P 12:36:40 <Rubidium> last month ~20 GB a day, this month over 30 GB a day 12:38:10 <Celestar> so the forums actually do much less traffic than the rest? O_o 12:38:24 <Rubidium> yup 12:38:32 <Celestar> .. interesting 12:38:41 <planetmaker> he... Rubidium how much is the online content service? 12:38:47 <Celestar> \o planetmaker 12:38:48 <Rubidium> planetmaker: no idea 12:38:59 <planetmaker> hi Celestar :) 12:39:21 <planetmaker> how're you? Are you already Mr Dr Celestar? Do I have say you to you :D ? 12:39:30 <Rubidium> planetmaker: averaging 18000 downloads or so a day this month 12:39:45 <Celestar> planetmaker: not yet. working on it. 12:39:53 <Celestar> motivation is at the low point 12:39:59 <planetmaker> he, quite a lot, Rubidium :) 12:40:01 * Celestar resumes merging cargodest :P 12:40:05 <planetmaker> Celestar, oh, yeah... :S 12:40:17 <Rubidium> 2000-2500 binary downloads a day 12:40:20 *** Dred_furst [~Dred@resnet573.bournemouth.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 12:40:28 <Celestar> Rubidium: what's the 18000 figure then? 12:40:37 <Celestar> planetmaker: how's it on your end? 12:40:45 <Celestar> planetmaker: I spend most of my day procrastinating. 12:40:45 <Rubidium> content thingy downloads 12:40:59 <planetmaker> he... sounds like my days, Celestar ... :S 12:41:02 <Celestar> planetmaker: need a laugh? www.structuredprocrastination.com 12:41:09 <Zr40> cargodest, sounds iteresting. What's it about? 12:41:31 <glx> Celestar resumes merging cargodest :P <-- good luck :) 12:41:45 <Celestar> glx: I'm doing it step by step (in blocks of about 50 commits) 12:41:47 <planetmaker> I'm still fiddeling with parts of my data, though. But try to get a bit writing done concurrently 12:41:57 <Celestar> bout 60 pages and counting 12:42:02 <glx> Celestar: I tried, but failed with orders rewrite 12:42:09 <planetmaker> Celestar, you should talk to Aali. He has a version working quite recently. 12:42:11 <Celestar> then there's the search for a job .... 12:42:22 <Celestar> planetmaker: a merge version? 12:42:26 <planetmaker> He might even have it as hg... 12:42:42 <planetmaker> a more recent version than the official hg repository 12:42:50 <planetmaker> much more recent, I dare say 12:43:09 <Celestar> nice 12:43:12 <planetmaker> I think it might be posted as svn patch in the forums - but I guess that's not what you want :) 12:43:15 <Celestar> meh creen seems messed up 12:44:04 <Celestar> TrueBrain: 12:44:10 <TrueBrain> Celestar: 12:44:18 <Celestar> TrueBrain: where does the hg push go to? ssh+svn:// ? 12:44:26 <TrueBrain> hg over svn 12:44:28 <TrueBrain> cool! :p 12:44:32 <Celestar> er wait 12:44:33 <Celestar> :P 12:44:44 <TrueBrain> ssh://celestar@secure.openttd.org//var/repos/hg/developers/celestar/cargodest.hg I think 12:44:47 <TrueBrain> might be wrong :p 12:44:58 <Yexo> that's correct :) 12:45:05 <Celestar> it bshes :P 12:45:08 <Celestar> pushes:P 12:45:09 <TrueBrain> I love my memory :) 12:45:18 <Celestar> glx: what rev was the order rewrite? 12:45:37 <Celestar> 14803? 12:45:44 <fonsinchen> Cargod*i*st is now available via git: http://fickzoo.com/fonsinchen/openttd.git 12:45:51 <fonsinchen> see forum for details 12:47:15 <Celestar> Aali: p i n g 12:48:35 <Rubidium> 14803 looks like the order rewrite one 12:48:43 <Celestar> I'm just on it 12:48:59 *** [1]KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.23.217.2] has joined #openttd 12:48:59 *** KenjiE20 is now known as Guest662 12:48:59 *** [1]KenjiE20 is now known as KenjiE20 12:49:09 <fonsinchen> Celestar, I'd happily cooperate with you on the cargo destination/distribution project. Yet I think your approach is limited in some ways: missing load balancing and bad demand function especially. 12:49:59 <Rubidium> fonsinchen: exactly the things where Celestar seems to be having a few plans for already but didn't implement yet 12:50:33 <Rubidium> http://wiki.openttd.org/Cargodest#Items_for_version_2 12:50:35 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: doesn't mean they can't work together ;) 12:50:58 <Celestar> fonsinchen: he. those two are currently just QnD solutions to have a working system :P 12:51:03 <Rubidium> true, but saying something is limited when not having all information is wrong ;) 12:51:14 <fonsinchen> You can't do that as "version 2". The demand function has to be done before actually distributing cargo. 12:51:19 <Rubidium> there have been some people saying things like that lately on the forum 12:51:28 <Celestar> ? 12:51:30 <planetmaker> "coming short" might be better wording than :P 12:51:32 *** Guest662 [~KenjiE20@92.23.217.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:51:33 <Celestar> keep me up to date 12:51:52 <fonsinchen> I have written an article in the Wiki 12:52:04 <fonsinchen> and I have a working implementation. It only needs a GUI 12:52:38 <Celestar> performance data? 12:52:40 <Celestar> ;) 12:53:02 <Celestar> my goal was to write a system that has a _very low_ performance impact on the game 12:53:05 <fonsinchen> And with load balancing the distribution problem becomes much more difficult than without - ie shortest path versus multi-commodity flow 12:53:45 <fonsinchen> so I decided to implement the load balancing from the beginning on instead of rewriting everything afterwards 12:53:46 <Rubidium> why isn't there a web view for the git repository? 12:54:00 <fonsinchen> Because I don't know how to do it 12:54:04 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: because he published the git, as http://git.openttd.org does for OpenTTD 12:54:05 <fonsinchen> You could tell me 12:54:21 <Celestar> fonsinchen: how do you do the routing? 12:54:48 <TrueBrain> fonsinchen: setting up a nice web view for git is hard .. mercurial is much easier for that task :) 12:54:50 <fonsinchen> I calculate everything on the link graph assembled from statistics collected when vehicles arrive 12:55:00 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Just slap on gitweb and your done? 12:55:08 <fonsinchen> Then I solve a multi-commodity flow problem on the link graph 12:55:09 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Though I admit the hg approach is even better 12:55:10 <TrueBrain> blathijs: needs cgi/perl 12:55:24 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Good point :-) 12:55:24 <fonsinchen> and map the flows back into stations 12:55:40 <orudge> Rubidium: I think the values I quoted in the "donate to the forums" spiel was awstats-logged HTTP transfer only, rather than overall server bandwidth usage 12:55:43 <fonsinchen> then I assign destinations according to the most underprovided flows 12:56:08 <orudge> since I didn't have consistent logs going back to 2007 or whenever for server bandwidth, due to server changes and datacentre changes and other such things 12:56:46 <fonsinchen> and mind that the linkgraph calculations take place in their own threads, so I have a lot of time there 12:57:03 <Celestar> fonsinchen: will that system run on somelow low-power hardware? 12:57:07 <fonsinchen> Yes 12:57:11 <fonsinchen> for small games 12:57:12 <Celestar> i.e. not a full-fledged PC 12:57:24 <fonsinchen> but large games won't run on small machines anyway 12:57:38 <Celestar> (read: an althon 3500+ is not low-power hardware) :P 12:57:46 <fonsinchen> There is still potential for optimization, if problems occur ... 12:57:57 <jonty-comp> I have an athlon 3500+! :D 12:57:58 <fonsinchen> I just don't have a small machine to test on 12:58:12 <Rubidium> dosbox ;) 12:58:24 <Celestar> well, take a Centrino notebook and lock the CPU to the lower possible frequency 12:58:29 <Celestar> (600Mhz here) 12:58:39 <Celestar> that's what I did 12:58:45 <fonsinchen> dosbox sounds like a good idea 12:58:53 <TrueBrain> install ESX(i) on a box and limit the CPU to 600 MHz :p 12:58:55 <fonsinchen> It runs fine on my 800Mhz Ibook 12:59:02 <fonsinchen> but thats not really small 12:59:16 <Celestar> where in your code does the main stuff happen? ;) 12:59:19 <Celestar> what file I mean 12:59:34 <Rubidium> pthread.h ;) 12:59:37 <fonsinchen> linkgraph.*, demands.*, mcf.*, flowmapper.* 13:00:02 <Celestar> somehow the link you gave me doesn'T have those files? 13:00:09 <fonsinchen> and I rewrote the vehicle loading system. 13:00:26 <fonsinchen> you have to check out cd-gui 13:00:40 <fonsinchen> git pull http://fickzoo.com/fonsinchen/openttd.git cd-gui 13:00:47 <fonsinchen> there are hierarchical branches 13:01:16 <fonsinchen> master->capacities->components->demands->mcf->flowmapping-core->flowmapping-vehload->cd-gui 13:01:32 <fonsinchen> each one implements a certain milestone 13:01:41 <fonsinchen> on top of the previous 13:02:08 *** joachim [~joachim@244.81-166-176.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:02:17 <Celestar> merging the order rewrite is a pita 13:02:58 <fonsinchen> Celestar, yours or mine? 13:03:08 <Celestar> neither 13:03:10 <Celestar> the trunk one 13:03:19 <glx> Celestar: yeah cargodest is highly integrated in orders 13:03:38 <Yexo> fonsinchen: your new source files are missing from source.list 13:03:47 <Celestar> I don'T find the new source files :P 13:03:52 <Celestar> neither does 'find' :P 13:03:53 <fonsinchen> demand_settings.h 13:04:00 <fonsinchen> yes, that's a bug 13:04:06 <Yexo> Celestar: what did you execute? 13:04:20 <Celestar> glx: well, there's always the "remove whole order list" - "add whole order list" - approach 13:04:25 <Celestar> Yexo: what he said ;) 13:04:29 <Yexo> after git clone http://fickzoo.com/fonsinchen/openttd.git cargodist-dir, do git checkout origin/cd-gui 13:05:09 <TrueBrain> hmm .. I now realise the compile-farm can't process branches :p 13:05:11 <TrueBrain> ghehe 13:05:29 <petern> heh 13:05:42 <petern> i didn't think anyone used them ;p 13:05:48 <TrueBrain> nope 13:06:20 <Celestar> you've written your own graph tool fonsinchen ? 13:06:20 <Yexo> we just publish every branch in a seperate repo 13:06:23 <TrueBrain> anyway: WT3 .. database redesign :( 13:06:55 <fonsinchen> I only need Dijkstra and also a special modification of it 13:06:57 <fonsinchen> so I did 13:07:06 <fonsinchen> boost is too much overhead for that 13:07:14 <TrueBrain> boost always is ... :) 13:07:31 <fonsinchen> and my dijkstra is about 10 lines 13:07:42 <fonsinchen> really cute 13:08:03 <TrueBrain> cargod*e*st without boost .. now that would be nice ;) :p 13:08:36 <Celestar> what's your problem with boost, TrueBrain ? 13:08:50 <TrueBrain> Celestar: big ... an other dep ... 13:09:05 <Celestar> well, that's why openttd is not an operating system :P 13:09:09 <TrueBrain> even more as you only use a VERY small portion of it .. and a few distros don't allow you to install only that part :) 13:09:17 <fonsinchen> I actually tried with boost, but I realized the code didn't get shorter but longer 13:09:27 <planetmaker> Celestar, but if you could do without it would make the whole thing a lot lighter IMO 13:09:34 <fonsinchen> I had to write lots of conversion code and accessors 13:09:40 <Celestar> lighter in what way? 13:09:40 <planetmaker> from the overhead side :) 13:09:57 <planetmaker> on dependencies size 13:09:59 <Celestar> lighter in not using a tested and stable graph library and using my own? ;) 13:10:09 <planetmaker> He :) 13:10:12 <TrueBrain> Celestar: we even have our own std::map routines :p 13:10:19 <TrueBrain> OpenTTD is _that_ argogant ;) 13:10:28 <Celestar> yeah which I still consider ... unwise 13:10:30 <TrueBrain> (damn, my typing is off today :p) 13:10:33 <planetmaker> of course it doesn't matter that I never manage to setup boost properly on my laptop 13:11:39 <fonsinchen> Well, the conversion code and the accessors are just as error-prone as writing your own graph library. If I had to use multiple different graph algorithms, I'd use boost. But I don't. 13:12:24 <Celestar> well I'll test your system with about 1000 vehicles over the weekend probably :P 13:12:25 <Rubidium> std::list/std::vector requires copying structs when inserting, which means pointless copying around of data causing noticable! slowdowns. As a result we implemented our own version that doesn't needlessly copy data around 13:12:53 <Celestar> fonsinchen: why don'T you just basically take the ideas from my GUI? ;) 13:13:08 <fonsinchen> I tried, but I didn't understand the code 13:13:15 <Celestar> I'm here ;) 13:13:18 <fonsinchen> Also I have a better idea for the station GUI 13:13:22 <Celestar> go ahead with questions 13:14:10 <Rubidium> when are you going to fix the cargodest bugs? ;) 13:14:20 <fonsinchen> I'll make three "group" and four "sort" buttons. Then you can sort by number, source, nexthop, destination and group by source, nexthop, destination in any order you like 13:14:41 <Celestar> Rubidium: lemme first try to SOMEHOW integrate the order changes 13:15:49 <Celestar> which is a pita from what ict 13:16:39 <Celestar> so .. how could we team up? 13:16:58 <Celestar> or converge the ideas :P 13:17:28 <Celestar> I don'T mind throwing out boost :P 13:17:29 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@f051160154.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 13:17:36 * TrueBrain makes a little dance 13:17:38 <Celestar> I just wanted the thing to work first 13:17:41 <TrueBrain> :p 13:18:10 <fonsinchen> Yes, I'd really like to team up. 13:18:12 <Rubidium> Celestar: http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=105579 <- for inspiration? 13:20:13 <Celestar> Rubidium: I somehow knkow that :P 13:20:57 <fonsinchen> Celestar, which ideas from your project do you think are missing from mine? 13:21:21 <Celestar> I like the routing part of mine (i.e. that code that decides whether something is unloaded or not). I don't like the generation part (i.e. deciding which destination a cargopacket gets) 13:23:05 <Celestar> the routing part needs the balancing component 13:23:22 <Celestar> got some drafts for that, but I'll have alook at your code first. 13:23:30 <Celestar> the generation part is .. eh .. not done at all. 13:23:37 <Celestar> I just plugged in some randomizer to test stuff :P 13:23:58 *** LUADuck [~LUADuck@79-72-164-220.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [] 13:24:02 <Celestar> what your code misses? dunno :P 13:24:10 <Celestar> doxygen stuff :P 13:24:10 <fonsinchen> Your routing can not easily be merged into my code. I don't "route". I calculate a distribution. When a packet starts its journey it doesn't know where it will end up. At every station the flows are examined and then a new nexthop is decided on. If that nexthop is the station the vehicle will travel to next, the cargo stays on board. Otherwise it's unloaded or transfered 13:24:30 <Celestar> well the packet has a target, hasn'T it? 13:24:34 <fonsinchen> no 13:24:37 <dihedral> network.cpp:449 <- somethings wrong here (in my assumption) 13:24:45 <petern> dihedral, please 13:24:46 <Celestar> er? 13:24:47 <fonsinchen> the packet has a source and a next hop. Each station has a flow mapping 13:24:58 <dihedral> petern, ? 13:25:03 <petern> file a proper bug report, eh? 13:25:07 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g226211017.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:25:07 *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl 13:25:26 <fonsinchen> when a packet from a certain source arrives at a station it is assigned to the most underprovided flow from that source going through the station. 13:25:27 <Celestar> then you don't have specific destinations? 13:25:49 <Celestar> how do you determine whether something is "underprovided" ? 13:26:03 <petern> heh, what stops something bouncing back & forth? heh 13:26:11 <fonsinchen> The MCF solver calculates a plan for the flows through each station 13:26:26 <fonsinchen> With each packet traversing a station I update the actual flow 13:26:38 <TrueBrain> smells like Internet version 1 :) 13:26:46 <TrueBrain> hmm .. version 2, sorry :p 13:26:47 <fonsinchen> The difference between plan and actual flow is the over- or underprovisioning of the flow 13:27:08 <Celestar> so what decides how many people want to go from town A to town B ? 13:27:14 <fonsinchen> the demand function 13:27:22 <fonsinchen> it is run before calculating the mcf 13:27:32 <Celestar> mcf being? 13:27:35 <fonsinchen> the mcf tries to satisfy the demands as well as possible 13:27:41 <fonsinchen> multi-commodity flow problem 13:27:44 <Celestar> phew. 13:27:52 <Celestar> that seems like a 100% different approach ;) 13:28:01 <fonsinchen> yes, it is 13:28:02 <Celestar> Rubidium: I'll need help with the orderlist rewrite ;) 13:28:02 *** Pikkaa [~PikkaBird@CPE-58-169-176-162.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 13:28:15 <Celestar> we might want to pursue both and see what comes out :P 13:28:23 <petern> competition is good 13:28:23 <TrueBrain> Celestar / fonsinchen: I think it would be nice if you 2 can somehow merge those 2 ideas and make one very nice idea out of it :) 13:28:35 <Rubidium> why do people always need me? 13:28:44 <Celestar> I'm open for ideas. how do we merge the two ideas? 13:28:46 <TrueBrain> poor Rubidium 13:29:06 <Gekz> Rubidium: you are important to society. Bask. 13:29:30 <TrueBrain> Celestar: you calculate the route of a packet at creation, or? 13:29:48 <Celestar> TrueBrain: no. I determine its destination. 13:30:34 <fonsinchen> I intentionally didn't do it that way. You don't have the big picture at every packet creation 13:30:38 <TrueBrain> so if I read you two correctly, the 'flow per station' is not really depending on either idea; it is just one method to do it, right? 13:30:51 <Yexo> isn't it possible to use fonsinchens routing to fix the routing distribution of Celestars aproach? 13:31:17 <TrueBrain> fonsinchen: as if I understand your idea correctly, the demand is calculated before any routing is done, right? 13:31:23 <fonsinchen> yes 13:31:32 <fonsinchen> then distribution is calculated 13:31:33 <TrueBrain> so the destionation is kind of known, in that idea 13:31:40 <fonsinchen> then it is mapped into vehicle loading 13:31:46 <fonsinchen> kind of 13:32:04 <fonsinchen> but the mcf solver may find out that demands cannot be mapped 13:32:07 <TrueBrain> so, the 'flow per station' is independant and can be removed from yours, or added to Celestar's (just for my idea, not a suggestion :p) 13:32:10 <fonsinchen> then cargo is sent somewhere else 13:32:36 <Celestar> I'm not sure about that "somewhere else" idea. 13:32:36 *** Pikka [~PikkaBird@CPE-58-169-176-162.qld.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:32:37 <TrueBrain> I somehow dislike that part of your idea, where I like that part in Celestar's idea :) 13:32:51 <Celestar> imagine you have a shitload of people wanting to go from A to B. 13:32:58 <Celestar> A to B is horribly underserved. 13:33:02 <Celestar> what happens with the people? 13:33:16 <Forked> they bitch at the manager? 13:33:17 <fonsinchen> Well, if the mcf finds out that it cannot send all packets to their destination, then the sum of flows originating from that station will be smaller than its supply 13:33:19 <TrueBrain> person at station A: I want to go to station B. at station C it turns out the mcfs tells it is not possible, and drops you off at station D .. I didn't want to go there!! :( :p 13:33:31 <Yexo> imo they should just wait at A untill you provide better service 13:34:33 <Yexo> unless there are lots of people waiting and they can go A->C->B (where the distance is not too big) 13:34:38 <TrueBrain> what is nice about fonsinchen's approach, is that you can map cargo over other routes to the same destination, a bit like internet works; if a link gets utilized too much, stuff gets routed over other legs where the utilization is lower 13:34:45 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@f051160154.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 13:35:07 <Forked> trains running BGP? :) 13:35:07 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, sounds like what happens in the real world :P 13:35:09 <Yexo> TrueBrain: yes, that's what I ment with trying to integrate fonsinchens routing with Celestars destinations 13:35:09 <TrueBrain> (increasing latency if there wouldn't be any utilization, but still speeding up the network) 13:35:15 <TrueBrain> Forked: BGP is at a higher level :) 13:35:27 <Celestar> fonsinchen: lost me ;) 13:35:29 <Forked> hm, doh 13:35:39 <TrueBrain> Yexo: glad I am not the only one who saw this integration option ;) :) 13:36:03 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: real world doesn't really work like that; people rather stand in traffic .... :p 13:36:06 *** Pikkaa [~PikkaBird@CPE-58-169-176-162.qld.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:36:21 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: stupid people 13:36:26 <Celestar> pax at A. wants to go to B. A->B underserved/overutilized. what happens to pax. waits or is "discarded" ? 13:36:30 <TrueBrain> Forked: well, in fact, it is a bit like BGP .. better to say: internet version 2 (we run on internet version 3) 13:36:54 <planetmaker> hehe :P 13:37:03 <Yexo> Celestar: pax goes A->C->B if possible, otherwise it waits (and eventually is discarded, just like now) 13:37:20 <TrueBrain> Yexo: I think he meant to ask hor fonsinchen's idea works ;) 13:37:23 <TrueBrain> hor = how 13:37:30 <Yexo> oh, well :p 13:37:39 <Celestar> so he *will* go to B, no matter what (unless he .. expires :P) 13:37:49 <TrueBrain> from what I read, it will go somewhere :p 13:37:51 <Yexo> if I understood that correctly, the pax will just go to C and dropped of there 13:38:02 <TrueBrain> which is a bit nasty ;) :p 13:38:23 <Celestar> I'm still trying to wrap my brains around this :P 13:38:33 <Yexo> <Celestar> so he *will* go to B, no matter what (unless he .. expires :P) <- that's what I consider the best option, it's not what fonsinchens patch does 13:39:03 <TrueBrain> Forked: BGP = Border Gateway Protocol; it manages routes of the AS; inside such BGP there is also routing, which also works on utilization, which is a bit easier to understand ;) 13:39:26 <Forked> BGP always did my head in.. I have no trouble with OSPF 13:39:44 <Celestar> or let's ask the question differently. lots of people wanna go to P, and all routes into P are oversaturated. what happenes then? 13:39:57 <TrueBrain> Forked: well, OSPF is what I would suggest :) 13:40:12 <Yexo> Celestar: are you asking about fonsinchens patch, or what we think that should happen? 13:40:20 <fonsinchen> catching up ... 13:40:58 <Celestar> fonsinchen's patch 13:41:50 *** Zahl [~Zahl@f051160154.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:41:50 *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl 13:42:05 <fonsinchen> If the MCF cannot meet all the demands, the flows will be lower than the supply, but the cargo will still be mapped onto the routes in the same ratios, so all routes will be overloaded. 13:42:23 <fonsinchen> ... equally overloaded 13:42:36 <Celestar> so the cargo will stack up at some intermediate stations? 13:42:43 <fonsinchen> yes 13:42:47 <fonsinchen> or at the source 13:42:49 <Celestar> before the weakest link. 13:42:53 <fonsinchen> yes 13:43:00 <fonsinchen> for each path 13:43:01 <Celestar> sounds good 13:43:20 <petern> TrueBrain, argh 13:43:44 <TrueBrain> petern: do tell? :) 13:43:46 <petern> TrueBrain, BGP for company-company cargo transfer, OSPF for intracompany movements :P 13:43:53 <TrueBrain> petern: exactly :) 13:44:05 <petern> let's integrate zebra 13:44:17 <TrueBrain> although I would not suggest to implement the protocol; rather the idea behind the protocol ;) 13:44:27 <TrueBrain> (which mostly is: utilization detection) 13:44:45 <Forked> and of course different areas inside the company, with area 0 as the core 13:45:19 *** Pikka [~PikkaBird@CPE-124-187-66-158.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 13:45:29 <TrueBrain> nice thing about that: in case of link failure (broken train), cargo immediatly gets rerouted over other routes :) 13:45:41 <petern> hehe 13:46:00 <fonsinchen> link failure in cargodist means the link's capacity decreases to 0 13:46:13 <fonsinchen> then all cargo waiting for that link is sent "anywhere" 13:46:21 <TrueBrain> what do you mean by "anywhere" 13:46:28 <TrueBrain> still in a direction which might end up to be the destionation 13:46:29 <fonsinchen> which means traditional distribution 13:46:31 <TrueBrain> or can it float for ever? 13:46:52 * Celestar thinks of testing this over the weekend 13:46:54 <fonsinchen> like before cargo distribution 13:47:04 <TrueBrain> fonsinchen: so that part I like more about Celestar's idea ;) 13:47:06 <fonsinchen> and flows for that link are deleted 13:47:16 <TrueBrain> your routing mechanism, his destionation mechanism ;) 13:47:22 <fonsinchen> future cargo is then routed over a different link 13:47:29 <TrueBrain> petern: wouldn't we be able to make a pathfinder based on OSPF? :) 13:48:00 <Celestar> TrueBrain: yes. and we have that basically :P 13:48:10 <Celestar> OSPF is dijkstra, isn't it? 13:48:17 <TrueBrain> no, not really 13:48:25 <TrueBrain> well, kind of :p 13:48:34 <TrueBrain> what I meant is that of each leg in the network, you calculate the utilization 13:48:36 <Celestar> two more seconds and you say "yes" 13:48:38 <TrueBrain> and route trains based on that information 13:48:58 <Celestar> well. that's not how it works IRL :P 13:49:00 <TrueBrain> where each leg receives a score (instead of length :p) 13:49:01 <Celestar> *hides* 13:49:33 <Sacro> is this how you rate girls? 13:49:42 <TrueBrain> Celestar: I have absolutely no idea how trains are routed in real life :p 13:50:06 <Celestar> the route of every train is predetemined. 13:50:14 <TrueBrain> which fails for OpenTTD :) 13:50:47 <petern> feel free to implement manual routing 13:50:51 <petern> might save a little cpu ;) 13:50:53 <Aali> Celestar: pong 13:51:00 <TrueBrain> petern: omg ..... the idea alone :) 13:51:18 <petern> i have no idea how the UI for that would work :p 13:51:20 <TrueBrain> how to you calculate utilization for a train .. hmm ... :) 13:51:59 <Celestar> TrueBrain: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/07/Grafico_su_monitor_SSDC_-_B-P.jpg <= like so. typical train schedule 13:52:09 <Celestar> Aali: I heard you merged cargodest? 13:52:20 <Aali> I did 13:52:31 <Celestar> over the order list rewrite? 13:53:03 <Aali> up to r15708 13:53:25 <TrueBrain> lol @ Celestar :) 13:54:32 <Celestar> TrueBrain: that is true 13:54:38 <Celestar> every line is a train 13:55:09 <Celestar> the ones going in one direction is one track, the lines going in the other direction is the other track 13:55:32 <Celestar> horizontal coordinate is the time, vertical the position along the track 13:55:55 <TrueBrain> complex ;) 13:55:56 <Celestar> EVERYTHING (schedules, platform usage, etc) is derived from those graphs 13:56:14 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BB6F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:59:29 <TrueBrain> how much CPU goes into pathfinding, on a map of say 3000 vehicles? 13:59:52 <TrueBrain> if I remember correctly, most time goes into TrainController or what ever it was called, but I don't know for what reason anymore :) 14:00:08 <Rubidium> for actually moving the vehicles 14:00:17 <TrueBrain> does that take the most time?! 14:00:17 <Rubidium> (and updating their state) 14:00:38 <Celestar> TrueBrain: http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/Bild:Bildfahrplan_Remsbahn_NVZ.svg <= this one is a bit better 14:00:47 <Celestar> TrueBrain: you can see where the trains stop (vertical lines) 14:01:24 <TrueBrain> Celestar: I am so glad it is not relevant for OpenTTD :) Ghehe :) 14:01:24 <Celestar> TrueBrain: the slope shows the speed 14:01:37 <Rubidium> I haven't done much profiling lately though 14:01:54 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: if you have the time, please run one for me :) I truly wonder :) 14:02:07 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAE9876.bae.pppool.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:02:17 <TrueBrain> he just leaves without saying goodbye? :( 14:02:29 *** Ridayah [~ridayah@173-19-228-175.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: The Rise and Fall of the Heavens themselves is dependant upon Humanity's belief and disbelief.] 14:02:30 <Rubidium> he pressed the wrong button ;) 14:02:36 <petern> colours are what? 14:02:47 <TrueBrain> petern: my guess: priority :p 14:02:57 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has joined #openttd 14:03:01 *** Ridayah [~ridayah@173-19-228-175.client.mchsi.com] has joined #openttd 14:03:12 <Celestar> petern: different train types 14:03:26 <Celestar> petern: normally you have labels for the lines etc, but they'Re removed in that image 14:04:17 <petern> hmm, in this one vertical is time and horizontal is position 14:06:02 <Celestar> yeah. 14:06:06 <Celestar> both types exist 14:07:35 <petern> let's add that to ottd :p 14:07:55 <petern> (or not) 14:08:06 <Celestar> yeah :D 14:08:23 <Celestar> finally organized schedules :D 14:08:40 <TrueBrain> omg ... that would be VERY hard ... :p 14:10:44 *** Aylomen [~a@DSL01.83.171.161.229.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has joined #openttd 14:11:04 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: http://paste.openttd.org/181956 14:11:30 <Aylomen> Is there any bridge-set that works with CS Railroad Tracks? 14:11:30 <TrueBrain> what does TrainLocoHandler do (which takes the most time) 14:11:58 <Rubidium> don't know, check the code 14:12:07 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: it is in the gprof :p 14:12:10 <TrueBrain> the reason I ask :) 14:12:16 <dihedral> how is this called: core/tcp_game.cpp:NetworkRecvStatus NetworkClientSocket::CloseConnection() 14:12:19 <dihedral> or rather from where? 14:13:09 <dihedral> NetworkCloseClient() is called twice 14:13:35 <dihedral> once from network_server.cpp when the client connection dies, and then after that from core/tcp_game.cpp 14:13:45 <dihedral> and that results in the 'connection lost' message :-P 14:13:48 * dihedral hides 14:14:36 <Rubidium> then NetworkCloseClient didn't close the connection... 14:15:06 <TrueBrain> tnx btw Rubidium :) 14:15:18 <dihedral> funny, because if it did not then NetworkCloseClient would result in the 'connection lost' message being printed twice 14:15:20 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: loco handler seems to be doing pathfinding related stuff; pbs, signals and the like 14:15:29 <TrueBrain> yeah, k :) 14:15:34 <Rubidium> traincontroller does the moving 14:16:06 *** divo [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 14:16:44 <Rubidium> the hashtable thing's probably the pathfinder (all optimisations make the results someone unreliable) 14:17:55 *** Synergy [~synergize@c-75-73-225-141.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:27:00 *** Pikka [~PikkaBird@CPE-124-187-66-158.qld.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 14:31:13 *** tkjacobsen [~tkjacobse@pppoe2-ves.broadcom.dk] has joined #openttd 14:36:24 *** Spoons [faux@molotov.compsoc.warwick.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:40:12 *** Spoons [faux@compsoc.sunion.warwick.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 14:44:02 *** Synergy [~synergize@c-75-73-225-141.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 14:55:16 *** bobo_b [~bobo_b@tiberius.ze.tum.de] has quit [Quit: quit] 14:58:20 *** maristo [~maristo@host217-114-156-151.pppoe.mark-itt.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:59:42 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BB6F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:23:00 *** NightKhaos [~nightkhao@78-86-111-126.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:27:01 <TrueBrain> pff .. spend a good hour rewriting WT3 database to do what I want it to do :( 15:28:01 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAE9876.bae.pppool.de] has joined #openttd 15:28:15 *** MapperOG [~michael@p57B2DFB9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:28:33 <MapperOG> can someone give me a hint (how) it is possible to connect a habour and a trainstation? 15:28:43 <TrueBrain> put them next to eachother 15:28:52 <TrueBrain> make a bus line between them 15:29:46 <Sacro> hold down control when you build 15:30:09 <TrueBrain> Sacro: CHEAT! :p 15:30:48 <Sacro> :( 15:30:54 <TrueBrain> okay, not really :) 15:33:40 <MapperOG> what does ctrl do? (I'm on multiplayer, so I wouldn't like to cheat) 15:33:50 <TrueBrain> it is not a cheat :) I was joking 15:33:51 <TrueBrain> try it 15:33:53 <TrueBrain> it won't hurt you 15:34:05 <MapperOG> thing is that it seems I'd have to build a bus line, since they're on different levels 15:34:06 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 15:34:07 <SmatZ> everyone cheats 15:34:12 <SmatZ> there's no other way to win :-p 15:35:12 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5FE97.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 15:35:28 <MapperOG> ah, that's a n2k 15:37:25 <MapperOG> -- You Got FAILED!!!!!!!!!!!!! -- o0 15:38:05 *** DaleStan [~Dale@c-98-223-48-35.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 15:38:26 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAE9876.bae.pppool.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:43:07 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-123-000.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 15:43:39 <MapperOG> hm.. so that's the reason why people protect their company with a password.. 15:44:05 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ff2b1.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 15:48:11 <frosch123> pm from richk \o/ 15:48:50 *** goodger_ [~ben@host86-150-195-25.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: +++ Out Of Cheese Error +++] 15:49:30 *** goodger [~ben@host86-150-195-25.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 15:51:28 *** taisteluorava [~orava@a88-114-52-67.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )] 15:51:53 *** taisteluorava [~orava@a88-114-52-67.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 15:53:27 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I hope it is less of a flame than the reply he posted :) 15:55:25 <frosch123> he, I guess he forgot himself what he implemented 15:56:10 <Rubidium> (and when) 16:00:02 <glx> (and how) 16:02:42 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db08ba4.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 16:09:05 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:09:23 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 16:28:47 <MapperOG> wha does the Participant tab in openttd multiplayer column say? (i.e. 3/16 - 7/8) ? 16:29:14 <MapperOG> current player/max player - current numb. company/max. company ? 16:29:18 *** Wolle [R4R@p57B0DFE1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:30:05 <TrueBrain> wow, did you come up with that on your own? :p :p 16:30:15 <TrueBrain> glad those numbers are so self explaining .. makes you wonder why you asked in the first place :) 16:31:20 <MapperOG> (I'm so lonely, I just wanted to start a conversation :P ) 16:32:08 <petern> heh 16:32:36 <TrueBrain> try #debian 16:32:38 <TrueBrain> (ghehe) 16:32:47 <Sacro> or #truebrain 16:33:07 <TrueBrain> TrueBrain is currently not available; please try again later 16:33:52 <petern> argh 16:33:55 <petern> yapp bug :( 16:34:34 <Sacro> hehe 16:35:35 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db08ba4.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Quit: brb] 16:35:41 <petern> no, i mean it :/ 16:36:43 <TrueBrain> fix it! :p 16:37:08 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db08ba4.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 16:38:39 <petern> :( 16:39:03 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAE9876.bae.pppool.de] has joined #openttd 16:40:38 <MapperOG> which industry needs copper? 16:40:46 <TrueBrain> wiki.openttd.org 16:46:16 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db08ba4.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Quit: brb] 16:47:00 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db08ba4.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 16:50:42 <frosch123> hehe, how did we manage to make sirkoz start coding newgrfs :o 16:54:15 <DaleStan> I dunno. But don't look a gift horse in the mouth. 16:56:18 <Sacro> DaleStan: you should if it came from the greeks 16:56:42 <DaleStan> *groan* 16:56:58 <Sacro> give it the once over 16:57:02 *** flexd [~flexd@127.79-160-12.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 16:57:05 <petern> hmm 16:57:19 <petern> problem with building roads everywhere is towns expand and prevent building tracks :/ 17:03:35 *** maristo [~maristo@host217-114-156-151.pppoe.mark-itt.net] has joined #openttd 17:06:18 <MapperOG> petern: when you pay the city enough money, they won't mind?! 17:08:37 <petern> erm 17:08:39 <petern> well 17:08:45 <petern> new build: £600,000 17:08:55 <petern> first income: £25,000 17:08:57 <petern> never mind :s 17:11:28 <petern> oh, the train wasn't full, heh 17:11:38 <petern> made a bit more on the return trip 17:18:20 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.8/2009032609]] 17:20:42 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-13-27-15.brhm.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 17:25:38 *** KingJ is now known as kingj 17:31:20 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-13-27-15.brhm.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 17:31:29 *** kingj is now known as KingJ 17:33:15 *** batti5 [~batti5@92.85.216.70] has joined #openttd 17:33:53 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:34:38 <batti5> Hi, is the OTTD Autoupdate sourcecode avalabile free?, im interesed to port it to a other os 17:36:19 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16067 /branches/NewGRF_ports/: [NewGRF_Ports] -Cleanup: remove as requested... 17:36:20 <Xaroth> ask Zuu 17:36:28 <Xaroth> but I'm working on something simmilar, batti5 17:36:34 <Xaroth> which -will- be open source 17:36:40 <Xaroth> and portable to other OS.... somewhat 17:36:58 <Spoons> Looks like delphi, probably easier to rewrite. :) 17:37:06 <Xaroth> it is delphi 17:37:11 *** Spoons is now known as FauxFaux 17:37:22 <batti5> <Xaroth> may i give a hand? 17:37:28 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16068 /branches/cpp_gui/: [cpp_gui] -Cleanup: remove unmaintainted obsoleted C++ GUI branch 17:37:50 <Xaroth> can you do C#? :P 17:38:05 <batti5> not really 17:38:07 <Xaroth> oo, SF FINALLY approved the project.. 17:38:12 <FauxFaux> c# is just java. 17:38:26 <Xaroth> ... dangerous ground there FauxFaux :P 17:38:29 <batti5> il may try 17:38:36 <Xaroth> most Java people hate .net, and vice versa :P 17:39:56 <Rubidium> FauxFaux: C# makes it easy to make unportable for that 'portable' platform 17:40:11 <Xaroth> as you can see 17:40:19 <Xaroth> Rubidium likes Java over .net . 17:40:47 * FauxFaux is Java too, mostly 'cos c# is just Java with some safety removed. 17:40:58 <Xaroth> safety? 17:41:11 <Rubidium> Xaroth: it's not because I don't know C# ;) 17:41:25 <TrueBrain> FauxFaux: now that is plain bullshit 17:41:40 <Rubidium> I think I've actually spent more time with C# than with Java 17:41:42 <batti5> do you know a site to learn more about java programing? 17:42:04 <Xaroth> heh 17:42:28 <FauxFaux> http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial 17:42:33 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: do you actually know C#? 17:42:34 <Xaroth> batti5: i learned C# by looking at other people's code... then again, i learned almost all the programming languages i read/write that way 17:42:40 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: sadly enough :( 17:42:45 <batti5> thanks 17:43:13 <Rubidium> so you know you can do pointer magic in C#? 17:44:10 <Xaroth> Rubidium: trying to do pointer magic in C# is asking for trouble tbqfh :P 17:44:37 <Rubidium> what kind of barbeque? 17:44:48 <Xaroth> to be quite fookin honest. 17:44:54 <Xaroth> not bbq :/ 17:47:44 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I was refering to the comment: C# is just Java 17:48:18 <Rubidium> oh, so not about C# is Java without safety ;) 17:48:44 <TrueBrain> indirectly, of course, but not what you suggested because of the word 'safety' 17:50:56 <TrueBrain> but if you really want 'safety', use Pascal 17:52:53 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: translators * r16069 /trunk/src/lang/ (brazilian_portuguese.txt korean.txt slovenian.txt): 17:52:53 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-04-16 17:52:36 17:52:53 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 12 fixed by tucalipe (12) 17:52:53 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: korean - 8 fixed by darkttd (8) 17:52:55 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: slovenian - 10 fixed by Necrolyte (10) 17:54:48 *** batti5 [~batti5@92.85.216.70] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:08 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAE9876.bae.pppool.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:04:40 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@77.163.150.18] has joined #openttd 18:10:27 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm103.psi148.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:13:07 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.198.82] has joined #openttd 18:20:22 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.202.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:23:11 * frosch123 ponders replying to the pm, if it wouldn't just be so pointless... 18:25:43 <TrueBrain> frosch123: be the better person :) Like we all try to be :p 18:27:35 <frosch123> well, he interprets certain stuff into my review of his specs in a very wrong way. though that is not hard as the review does not consist of whole sentences :) 18:29:50 <frosch123> " - additional bytes to tilelayouts: ground type and shape (very silly)" <- like he relates the "very silly" to the feature of having irregular airports... 18:30:20 <frosch123> though otoh, maybe I should have reread that stuff before posting in public :) 18:30:41 <petern> nah, he deliberately misreads i think :p 18:30:46 <petern> he likes getting wound up 18:30:57 <TrueBrain> if self == None: 18:30:59 <TrueBrain> TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, NoneType found 18:31:01 <TrueBrain> excuse me Python? 18:41:39 <TrueBrain> grr .. mixing old object files with newer source files 18:41:43 <TrueBrain> bad Python, bad bad Python 18:41:56 <Rubidium> broken pythondepend? 18:45:06 *** Exl [~myself@cp1224652-a.roemd1.lb.home.nl] has joined #openttd 18:48:50 <TrueBrain> glx / Yexo / planetmaker / any other translator: can it ever happen dat a 'case' of a translation has an other {G=} prefix than the main translation? 18:49:12 <Yexo> I have no idea 18:49:21 <planetmaker> prefix? 18:49:27 <TrueBrain> yes 18:49:30 <TrueBrain> a thing that comes before the rest 18:49:32 <TrueBrain> we call that a prefix :p 18:50:08 <planetmaker> yeah. And what's the main translation? 18:50:14 <TrueBrain> the one without the case 18:50:15 <planetmaker> I think I need an example of what you mean 18:50:22 <TrueBrain> I don't know if your language carries it 18:50:25 <TrueBrain> do you use gender and cases? 18:50:28 <planetmaker> yes 18:50:37 <TrueBrain> what language? 18:50:41 <TrueBrain> then I can give you a live example :) 18:50:45 <planetmaker> Well, I translate German :) 18:50:57 <planetmaker> But you can give me a Dutch one, too 18:51:06 <planetmaker> or French 18:51:21 <TrueBrain> language 19 ... 18:51:28 <Rubidium> german doesn't use cases 18:51:38 <Rubidium> neither do Dutch or French 18:51:49 <planetmaker> uhm... TrueBrain : do you mean that the gender changes? 18:52:06 <Aylomen> german uses cases 18:52:07 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: given my typo of 'an other' instead of 'another', yes 18:52:14 <TrueBrain> STR_4803_POWER_STATION 18:52:28 <planetmaker> Well, the gender of a word doesn't change 18:52:30 <TrueBrain> German indeed has no cases 18:52:31 <Rubidium> Aylomen: no in OpenTTD's translation kind of sense, i.e. what TrueBrain means 18:52:39 <planetmaker> but the arcticle changes according to the case. 18:52:56 <planetmaker> but that's no gender change 18:53:05 <planetmaker> would be funny. 18:54:19 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 18:55:50 <frosch123> TrueBrain: you mean like "girlfriend" and "boyfriend", which have a gender prefix? 18:56:13 <TrueBrain> frosch123: YES! That was EXACTLY what I meant :p 18:56:17 <TrueBrain> (can you feel the sarcasm? :)) 18:56:29 <TrueBrain> if you would have said: {G=girl}friend and {G=boy}friend 18:56:38 <TrueBrain> I would have agree'd with less sarcasm btw ;) 18:57:33 <frosch123> I have no idea how that {G ..} stuff works :) 18:57:49 <TrueBrain> :) and I wish I didn't know :( 18:58:46 <petern> heh 19:01:22 <glx> TrueBrain: I never used cases ;) 19:02:08 <TrueBrain> how useless ... :p 19:07:16 <glx> ask latin translator :) 19:08:47 <glx> hmm ask SmatZ, he's a translator for a language using cases 19:11:33 *** Muxy [~Muxy@smtp.bdelalande.net] has joined #openttd 19:12:31 *** Muxy [~Muxy@smtp.bdelalande.net] has left #openttd [] 19:13:39 <frosch123> can you actually describe "{PERSON} is the {G boy girl weird}friend of {PERSON}"? E.g. tell the {G} to use the {G=} of the first string 19:14:51 <glx> frosch123: wiki ;) 19:15:19 <frosch123> really, there is something useful there? 19:15:19 <TrueBrain> but I guess you are correct :) 19:15:22 <TrueBrain> as far as I understand it :) 19:15:25 <glx> http://wiki.openttd.org/FormatOfLangfiles#Genders 19:16:35 <TrueBrain> but what I don't understand, why in the above case, this works: {G 0 boy girl weird}, and why we didn't pick a method like {G:0 boy girl weird} 19:16:42 <TrueBrain> easier to process in scripts :p 19:17:13 <TrueBrain> glx: a few plural forms are missing on the site ;) :p 19:17:31 *** De_Ghosty [~s@69-196-167-210.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:17:47 <planetmaker> glx: latin doesn't use prefix. It uses postfix 19:18:02 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: {G=}prefix is set by OpenTTD 19:18:06 <TrueBrain> has NOTHING to do with the language ... 19:18:07 <glx> planetmaker: you don't understand :) 19:18:36 <glx> {G=} defines the gender of a string 19:18:56 <TrueBrain> the 'prefix' in my question has to do that {G=?} comes in front of the translation 19:19:04 <TrueBrain> as you also have {G ? ?} tags in the middle of a string 19:19:10 <planetmaker> mÀh... :( 19:19:41 <planetmaker> glx: yes, I understand that. I've seen that in the translation 19:21:50 <glx> the question was if {G=} should be in str, str.case1, str.case2, ... or only in str 19:22:41 <TrueBrain> exactly :) 19:22:57 <glx> STR_8102_RAILROAD_LOCOMOTIVE :{G=f}lokomotiva 19:22:57 <glx> STR_8102_RAILROAD_LOCOMOTIVE.acc :{G=f}lokomotivu 19:22:57 <glx> STR_8102_RAILROAD_LOCOMOTIVE.dat : 19:23:01 <glx> in czech 19:23:59 <pavel1269> :-) 19:24:16 <glx> SmatZ: aren't the empty .dat unneeded? 19:24:36 <Rubidium> depends, maybe it's correct 19:24:42 <Rubidium> (probably it isn't though) 19:24:49 <glx> that's why I ask :) 19:25:05 <pavel1269> what means .acc ... .dat? :-) 19:25:17 <Rubidium> that're cases in strgen-speak 19:26:11 <pavel1269> well, we have 7 cases ... (czech) 19:26:23 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: it's always possible to change G 0 ... to G:0. It's probably not a lot of work in strgen, but WT2 would go crazy 19:26:52 <SmatZ> glx: I don't know :) 19:27:00 <frosch123> pavel1269: nom gen dat acc voc loc ins big small 19:27:04 <SmatZ> I never noticed that missing 19:27:04 *** maristo [~maristo@host217-114-156-151.pppoe.mark-itt.net] has quit [Quit: AdiaÅ.] 19:27:18 <frosch123> except "ins" quite latin 19:27:19 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: something to keep for WT3 than ;) 19:27:28 <glx> frosch123: big and small are probably fake cases 19:27:51 <frosch123> thought so :) but they misspelled "abl" as "ins" 19:28:20 <pavel1269> SmatZ: so just fill it with proper case and be happy? :-) 19:29:47 <planetmaker> I wouldn't call it "base translation" but "English original" 19:30:23 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: a) wrong channel, b) wrong channel :p 19:31:22 <Rubidium> c) right person! 19:31:33 <Rubidium> d) and a few more ;) 19:32:28 <SmatZ> pavel1269: "lokomotivÄ"? 19:32:40 <pavel1269> true 19:32:43 <pavel1269> :-) 19:33:18 <SmatZ> nominativ, genitiv, dativ, akuzativ, vokal, lokal, instrumental? or how are the cases called :) 19:33:37 <pavel1269> its just our cases or .... ? 19:33:39 *** Zuu [~Zuu@c-71fae253.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 19:33:46 <SmatZ> czech cases :) 19:33:48 <frosch123> "instrumental"? that pretty sounds like "ablativ" :) 19:34:42 <SmatZ> :-p "ablativ" from spanish "ablar", or from english "able"? :) 19:34:54 <pavel1269> just wondering ... any vokal case defined? :-P 19:35:02 <SmatZ> hehehe 19:35:09 <frosch123> latin case: nominativ, genitiv, dativ, accusativ, vocativ, locativ, ablativ 19:35:25 <pavel1269> we have same? :O 19:35:43 <SmatZ> ah :) 19:35:47 <SmatZ> interesting :) 19:35:49 <frosch123> though I learned that the romans couldn't handle "locativ" themself 19:36:05 <SmatZ> hehe 19:36:09 <SmatZ> poor romans :) 19:36:13 <pavel1269> :D 19:36:41 <pavel1269> stupid language (czech) ... 19:37:43 <planetmaker> frosch123: I'd say there are 6 latin ones only: locativ is not quite a case... afair the old days ;) 19:37:56 <SmatZ> frosch123: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ablative_case http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumental_case I think thoses cases are different 19:38:40 <SmatZ> Ablative of Instrument = Instrumenta case ... or so 19:38:51 <Aylomen> ablative is more general I think 19:38:58 <frosch123> but latin uses ablativ also for instrumental stuff 19:39:01 *** tkjacobsen [~tkjacobse@pppoe2-ves.broadcom.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:39:10 <Aylomen> in latin it is the "ablativus instrumentalis" 19:39:13 <planetmaker> Ablative is kind of "by means of" or yeah... instrumental 19:39:38 <frosch123> i.e. just like accusativ is also used to express "towards" 19:39:57 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.11] has joined #openttd 19:40:03 <frosch123> but that is not the main usage of accusativ 19:40:35 <Aylomen> but the expression towards needs an preposition 19:41:16 <Rubidium> just drop cases... so much easier 19:41:25 <Aylomen> and the preposition needs the accusative 19:41:32 <SmatZ> hehe 19:41:39 <SmatZ> Rubidium: you use 4 cases? 19:42:44 <Rubidium> SmatZ: well... depends on how you look at it 19:43:33 <Rubidium> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_language#Genders_and_cases <- compare the "complexity" of the Dutch and German cases in that table 19:44:04 <SmatZ> 8-) nice 19:44:19 <frosch123> genitiv is also "obsolete" in certain parts of germany :p 19:44:47 * Rubidium always used the inventiv with German ;) 19:44:54 <SmatZ> :-D 19:44:58 <frosch123> :) 19:45:42 <Rubidium> can I make this sentence grammatically correct if all words are in plural? If yes... bingo! 19:46:04 <SmatZ> :) 19:46:28 <Rubidium> the teacher didn't like it, but ... the test was about grammar not making sentences that make sense 19:46:43 <SmatZ> hehe 19:53:13 *** NightKhaos [~nightkhao@78-86-111-126.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 19:57:43 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ff2b1.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:03:06 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-19-10.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:20:05 *** fjb [~frank@p5485F4FA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:20:10 <fjb> Hello 20:20:57 <TrueBrain> hi fjb 20:21:26 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5FE97.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:23:30 <Zuu> Hello 20:24:09 <SmatZ> hello fjb 20:24:11 <SmatZ> hello Zuu 20:24:18 <fjb> Haven't been here quite a while. Have to catch up with all the news. 20:24:40 <Zuu> Hello SmatZ 20:24:49 <SmatZ> nothing to see here, move around... 20:25:32 <Zuu> There is some lengthy discussions about (air)ports in the forums. Have not read todays yet :) 20:25:39 <Zuu> There are* 20:25:40 * fjb is busy reading the forum. 20:26:56 *** divo [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:31:47 <planetmaker> much hate I sense in the airport discussions. 20:32:12 <planetmaker> ... and hate leads to suffering ;) 20:33:37 <SmatZ> :o) 20:33:43 <Yexo> main problem I see there is that richk is angry because his implementation is not necesarily used 20:34:13 <Yexo> it's too bad he doesn't accept that fact and helps with another implementation 20:34:26 <TrueBrain> I think that '18' months of angryness is misplaced in any situation 20:34:44 <TrueBrain> they should put expire times on that :) 20:34:46 <Yexo> like how Celestar/fonsischen went in a discuttion about cargodest, albeit their completely different designs 20:35:15 <Belugas> ho... richk.. again... 20:35:32 <TrueBrain> hi Belugas :) 20:36:08 *** Fenris [~fenris@p5B0D727E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 20:36:16 <Belugas> TrueBrain :D 20:36:22 <Belugas> hello dear boy 20:36:26 <TrueBrain> how are you? :) 20:36:36 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAE9876.bae.pppool.de] has joined #openttd 20:36:53 <Belugas> still on vacation, playing a lot with kiddo and with guitar ;) 20:37:03 <TrueBrain> :) That should be nice ;) 20:37:13 <Belugas> wor asked me to do a few stuff during the evening 20:37:22 <Belugas> i take the opportunity to wave hello 20:37:24 <SmatZ> Belugas: nice to hear :) 20:37:57 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db08ba4.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Quit: gn8] 20:39:50 *** MapperOG [~michael@p57B2DFB9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:44:00 <Belugas> arrogant moron, that richk 20:44:03 *** racetrack [~racetrack@c114-76-9-162.eburwd4.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:45:08 <TrueBrain> Belugas: tnx for that summary :) 20:45:33 *** racetrack [~racetrack@c114-76-9-162.eburwd4.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 20:45:54 <fjb> I don't find the link to the precompiled binaries (beside the release version). 20:46:21 <Zuu> I think he also have withrawn the realwordairports.grf if I'm not mistaken. 20:47:12 <Zuu> At least reading the first post in his thread it seams so. 20:50:42 <Yexo> realworldairports.grf has been long gone 20:50:46 <Yexo> at least for a year now 20:50:56 <Belugas> TrueBrain, it was like that since day 1. it's the way I want it or it's sabotage 20:51:41 <TrueBrain> he always kept out of my way, so I have no idea :) But I believe you .. you rarely have a negative strong opinion about someone, so :) 20:51:41 <Belugas> he cannot take a no for an answer, he wants stuff being done for him, he prefers hacks and shortcuts 20:53:35 <Belugas> i don't? buwhahahaha!!!! 20:54:43 <Belugas> TrueBrain, you remember all the work we did on the tgp branch? He called it sabotage 20:55:15 <Belugas> we had the insane idea to look at his code and make it better. how silly of us to do so 20:55:39 <Forked> hacks make things more realistic! 20:55:44 * Forked runs for the hills 20:56:16 <Belugas> i told him right from the start that the callback system would be better than his approach. he did not jumped on hte wagon mainly because he did not understood the callback system at all 20:56:40 <Belugas> and if he does not understand, it's surely because it's evil and nor worth working on it 20:56:43 <Belugas> bitch 20:56:55 <Belugas> and yes inded, we are the arrogant devs 20:58:49 <TrueBrain> Belugas: see, that I completely missed that he didn't like we finished TGP (well .. it was like 60% done or so :p) 20:59:02 <TrueBrain> I just thought he was happy we did that :) Clearly .. I was wrong ;) Don't care .. I am happy we did finish TGP :p 20:59:06 <Belugas> nonono in his mind, it was finished 20:59:10 <TrueBrain> HAHAHAHAHA 20:59:12 <TrueBrain> oh, that is funny :) 20:59:49 <pavel1269> TGP? 20:59:53 <Belugas> and the best, is to see him coming in and asking us to sinc newgrf port... yeahright 20:59:54 <TrueBrain> landscape generator 20:59:56 <pavel1269> the great paradise? :-) 20:59:59 <pavel1269> ahh 21:00:09 <Belugas> TerraGenesisPerlin 21:00:25 <TrueBrain> anyway, I suggest to all to put a big IGNORE on his head, and wait till that storm has passed ;) 21:00:32 <petern> Terrible Generated Poo 21:00:53 <pavel1269> thought about that also :-P 21:01:05 <Xaroth> lolwut 21:01:12 <Xaroth> sf.net svn upload speed deluxe 21:01:16 <Xaroth> whopping 1.3kb/s! 21:01:27 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: don't say we didn't warn you! 21:01:35 <Xaroth> you did, i know 21:01:39 <Xaroth> but by lack of better.. etc 21:02:14 <Zuu> http://savannah.gnu.org/ ? 21:02:22 <Zuu> No idea if it is any faster though 21:02:44 * Xaroth shrugs 21:02:48 <petern> we could do with another better generator really :s 21:03:16 <TrueBrain> petern: this one is already ^1000 better than the old one 21:03:19 <Belugas> yeah... one with better chi 21:03:37 <Belugas> but it does have flaws, TrueBrain 21:03:43 <petern> TrueBrain, i don't agree 21:03:52 <TrueBrain> Belugas: yup :) 21:03:58 <TrueBrain> petern: you find the old one better?! Scary :) 21:04:03 <Belugas> like it could have "regions" instead of been uniform 21:04:57 <Yexo> petern: I've a working patch that allows you to script a new map generator in squirrel 21:05:07 <Yexo> makes it easy to debug / share :) 21:05:42 <Belugas> youhou! 21:05:44 <pavel1269> again stupid chi ... whats that? :-) 21:06:01 <pavel1269> i knwo ... sth about ... terrain looking 21:06:08 <pavel1269> not all uniform and so on ... but ... 21:06:11 <petern> Yexo, nice :D 21:06:12 <Belugas> it's indeed a stupidity, pavel1269 21:06:18 <petern> Belugas, yes, regions good 21:06:29 *** MapperOG [~mirrakor@p57B2DFB9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:06:46 <Yexo> regions are hard to code though, if you don't want the regions to be uniform 21:06:51 <petern> yup 21:06:59 <fjb> How about rivers then? *hides* 21:07:08 <petern> i like the old generator because it provides a mix of flat and non-flat land 21:07:11 <petern> tgp doesn't really 21:07:19 <Rubidium> drought? 21:07:23 <Yexo> fjb: my patch will have support for that 21:07:24 <pavel1269> true, i use him also :-) 21:07:41 <petern> bananasat? heh 21:07:51 <pavel1269> for very hilly, tgp is better but .... 21:07:54 * fjb votes for Yexo's patch. 21:08:11 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:08:15 <pavel1269> i wonder, how will you create those rivers :-) 21:09:09 <pavel1269> like ... if i cut it in half... will it create a lake and find new way to a sea? :D 21:09:23 <petern> that's not a function of the landscape generator 21:09:33 <petern> it's already generated then :p 21:09:54 <petern> oh, and another gripe with richk: those stupid extra airports :s 21:10:20 <pavel1269> well, landscape generator create a river ... but just a "start" ? .... and other msut be handled somewhere else :-) 21:10:26 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-51-190.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 21:10:30 <pavel1269> hmm? :-) 21:10:51 <Nite_Owl> Hello all 21:10:55 <pavel1269> hi 21:11:00 <Zuu> pavel1269: I guess that is up to the terain generator script. 21:11:13 <Nite_Owl> Hello pavel1269 21:11:32 <pavel1269> Zuu: and if i cut ingame that river ... its no longer a river :P 21:11:57 <petern> in game behaviour is probably a bit out of scope of the landscape generator, though 21:12:16 <pavel1269> i am talking about rivers :-) 21:12:17 <Yexo> pavel1269: as Zuu said, it's up to the script on how it generates them 21:12:40 <pavel1269> true, but i am dreaming here :-D 21:12:50 <Yexo> it's only about generating them (together with the map), not about lively rivers or stuff like that 21:12:54 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@77.163.150.18] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- *I* use it, so it must be good!] 21:12:56 <Yexo> planetmaker was working on that some time ago iirc 21:13:13 <planetmaker> he... 21:13:24 <pavel1269> :D 21:13:29 <TrueBrain> I wish you all a very good night :) I will be back monday or so :) Enjoy your weekend!! 21:13:36 <pavel1269> cya 21:13:38 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 21:13:39 <planetmaker> good night & nice weekend, TrueBrain 21:13:41 <Yexo> bye TrueBrain 21:13:45 <Yexo> have a nice weekend 21:14:26 <Nite_Owl> later TrueBrain 21:14:36 <planetmaker> pavel1269: if you're interested, what I stopped at is there: http://www.openttdcoop.org/files/pm/patches/gen_rivers_v1.05_r13826.diff 21:14:38 <Zuu> cya TrueBrain 21:15:05 <planetmaker> But it's not really "lively" rivers. The biggest obstacle for me right then was to come up with a decent path finder for rivers. 21:15:32 <planetmaker> But given a decent pathfinder, it should be feasable to build lively rivers upon that. 21:16:00 <pavel1269> nice, will look at it maybye tomorow :-) 21:16:21 <Belugas> petern, yeah, big aiports... and remember, we had (again) to battle very hard for him to not include them all... 21:16:29 <pavel1269> but my c/c++ skills are ..... cant see that deep 21:17:05 <Xaroth> thar, updated AutoTTD thread with codez 21:19:11 *** const86 [const@tower.mimas.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:19:15 <planetmaker> pavel1269: look in the folder (w/o that filename) for some images) 21:19:59 <planetmaker> actually... only one :P http://www.openttdcoop.org/files/pm/patches/river.png 21:20:34 <pavel1269> nice one :-) 21:20:35 <Yexo> pavel1269: if you want to have a look, see http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/mapgen/ 21:20:58 <pavel1269> nice!! 21:22:16 *** weltende [welterde@gandalf.srv.welterde.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:22:58 *** murr4y_ [murray@2001:470:1f0a:1be::42] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:23:32 <pavel1269> but, the last one .... the very hilly one .... its not ideal 21:24:00 <Yexo> pavel1269: it's not about those screenshots, those are just from a (pretty simple) script I wrote to test the system 21:24:17 <Yexo> the idea is that it should be much easier to write your own map generator 21:24:21 <pavel1269> i know, you are making that squirell thingy like AI ... 21:24:31 *** weltende [welterde@gandalf.srv.welterde.de] has joined #openttd 21:24:38 <Yexo> just modifying a few parameter in the main.nut I provide will already give different results 21:24:43 <Yexo> exactly 21:25:24 *** weltende is now known as welterde 21:25:28 *** welterde [welterde@gandalf.srv.welterde.de] has quit [] 21:25:32 *** welterde [welterde@gandalf.srv.welterde.de] has joined #openttd 21:26:02 <pavel1269> well, gn 21:26:21 *** pavel1269 [~quassel@r2ao16.net.upc.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:48 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-123-000.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: und weg] 21:29:04 *** murr4y [murray@2001:470:1f0a:1be::42] has joined #openttd 21:38:23 *** Patrick_ [~quassel@mikearthur.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:39:02 <planetmaker> Yexo: that allows access to the path finders as it's using squirrel, right? 21:39:23 <Yexo> not directly, but the AI pathfinder libraries can be copied 21:39:47 <planetmaker> what would be your position wrt resorting to that even during normal game e.g. when a river needs to find a new path due to terraforming? 21:39:56 <planetmaker> is the use of squirrel then bad? 21:40:03 <Zuu> PAXLink - download one every day and keeps the doctor away. :p (yes there comes a new version also today with a bug fix) 21:40:07 <planetmaker> oh.. and why the need to copy the pf? 21:40:32 *** Patrick [~quassel@mikearthur.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:40:35 <planetmaker> that doesn't sound ... efficient ;) 21:40:38 <Yexo> maybe the pf doesn't need to be copied, but you don't want a road pathfidner nor a rail pathfidner, so you'll have to write your own anyway :p 21:40:46 <Yexo> the AyStar library can be used though 21:41:03 <planetmaker> Yexo: well... I think such PF could do actually. You just need to change the penalties. 21:41:13 <planetmaker> but yeah. a* should do, I guess 21:41:28 <Yexo> but for changing the penalties you'll have to make a copy :) 21:41:44 <planetmaker> Yexo: they're not configurable via parameter? 21:41:58 <Yexo> they are, but you don't want a river over a bridge, do you? 21:42:05 <planetmaker> :D 21:42:25 <planetmaker> natural aquaducts - don't you know them by the hundrets? ;) 21:42:32 <Yexo> and I can image some penalties special to riviers, like don't bend twice after eachother 21:43:05 <planetmaker> well... I wouldn't mind that actually. 21:43:24 *** DephNet[Paul] is now known as DephNet 21:43:30 <Yexo> the rail and road pathfinder share quite some code, but they are two different pathfinders (ie copied, not one pf configured via parameters) 21:43:43 <planetmaker> My approach was to use a general direction as kind of average over the last few steps of finding a path 21:43:54 <Yexo> about lively rivers, using squirrel code could be possible, but I dunno if that makes much sense 21:44:00 <planetmaker> ok 21:44:05 <Yexo> after all, it's not likely you want to write multiple implementations 21:44:16 <planetmaker> well, true :) 21:45:00 <planetmaker> it was me who thought that the code could be re-used directly. But you knowing much more about them, I thought it a good idea to ask you about it :) 21:45:20 <Yexo> maybe it can, I dunno yet 21:45:30 <Yexo> I haven't started on the implementation supporting rivers yet 21:45:37 <planetmaker> So one might just copy & translate it into c++ with the correct penalties 21:45:48 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80A14.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 21:45:52 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 21:46:03 <Yexo> that should be trivial, as squirrel is c-like 21:46:36 <planetmaker> he :) I haven't yet looked at squirrel at all, I have to admit 21:47:13 <planetmaker> but code is code and porting from one language to another is mostly not that difficult if one can get the structure 21:47:21 <Yexo> http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/mapgen/main.nut <- demonstrates enough of it to give you an idea how it works 21:47:46 <planetmaker> true 21:51:56 *** Aylomen [~a@DSL01.83.171.161.229.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:52:41 <planetmaker> anyway... I wish you a good night for now :) 21:52:58 <planetmaker> and all others, too 21:54:11 <SmatZ> good night, planetmaker :) 21:54:11 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BB6F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59:22 <Nite_Owl> later planetmaker 22:10:11 <petern> Yexo, so how's performance? 22:10:31 <Yexo> haven't tested that too well 22:10:35 <Yexo> depends on the script of course 22:10:37 <Yexo> but it's doable 22:11:09 <Yexo> I can generate the landscape in +- 1 second on my laptop 22:11:15 *** fjb [~frank@p5485F4FA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 22:11:15 <Yexo> that's a 2048x2048 map 22:12:20 <Yexo> sorry, that was tgp :( 22:13:11 <Yexo> it's way too slow for big maps :( 22:13:43 <petern> hehe 22:13:56 <Yexo> 15 seconds for a 1024x1024 map 22:15:12 <Yexo> that may be because my script is slow though, dunno 22:15:20 <Yexo> I'll do some real testing tomorrow 22:15:24 <Yexo> gn all 22:15:35 <Zuu> Good night Yexo 22:16:20 <Nite_Owl> later Yexo 22:19:21 *** [1]KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.23.217.2] has joined #openttd 22:19:21 *** KenjiE20 is now known as Guest732 22:19:22 *** [1]KenjiE20 is now known as KenjiE20 22:22:02 *** Guest732 [~KenjiE20@92.23.217.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:25:09 *** phidah [~phidah@1305ds3-oebr.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Quit: phidah] 22:25:38 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:27:58 *** MapperOG [~mirrakor@p57B2DFB9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:28:49 *** const86 [const@tower.mimas.ru] has joined #openttd 22:34:24 *** Pikka [~user@CPE-124-187-66-158.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 22:34:52 <Pikka> any ottd forum mods awake? :) 22:37:47 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@a82-95-167-159.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:42:19 *** Exl [~myself@cp1224652-a.roemd1.lb.home.nl] has quit [Quit: Bitches.] 22:43:18 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.198.82] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:46:07 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.198.82] has joined #openttd 22:49:50 *** Pikkaa [~PikkaBird@CPE-124-187-66-158.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 22:50:00 *** Pikka [~user@CPE-124-187-66-158.qld.bigpond.net.au] has left #openttd [] 22:54:58 *** Zuu [~Zuu@c-71fae253.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:58:26 <Rubidium> Pikkaa: report the post you want to have changed and a mod will (eventually) find it 23:00:24 <Pikkaa> :) 23:04:00 *** KritiK_ [~Maxim@93-80-19-10.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 23:04:00 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-19-10.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:04:01 *** KritiK_ is now known as KritiK 23:06:18 *** Pikkaa [~PikkaBird@CPE-124-187-66-158.qld.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 23:06:19 *** Pikka [~PikkaBird@CPE-124-187-66-158.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 23:06:54 <Nite_Owl> Need to feed - later all 23:07:17 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-51-190.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon] 23:14:00 *** mirra [~mirrakor@p57B2DFB9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:14:09 *** mirra is now known as MapperOG 23:19:13 *** fonsinchen1 [~alve@BAEdea8.bae.pppool.de] has joined #openttd 23:21:56 *** scarabeus [~weechat@net-2-2.jaw.cz] has quit [Quit: "switch from x86->~amd64 add live kde4, ..."] 23:25:12 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAE9876.bae.pppool.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:26:01 *** KingJ is now known as kingj 23:29:35 *** `Fuco`` [~dota.keys@fuco.sks1.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 23:29:35 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks1.muni.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:29:41 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-19-10.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving]