Config
Log for #openttd on 26th April 2009:
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07:43:31  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r16152 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Added nested widgets for advanced settings and for custom currency windows.
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08:33:59  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r16153 /trunk/src/signs_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Completing QueryEditSignWidgets enum.
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08:37:00  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r16154 /trunk/src/signs_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Added nested widgets for sign list and sign edit windows.
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08:45:25  <TrueBrain> morning all
08:50:59  <SmatZ> hello TrueBrain
08:52:08  <TrueBrain> found an other screw-up in the life of OpenTTD ... commiting string-renames to translation before doing that to english.txt
08:52:10  <TrueBrain> yeah!
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08:52:32  <Wolf01> hello
08:52:51  <SmatZ> hehe
08:52:53  <SmatZ> hello Wolf01
09:05:09  <el_en> http://www.forteantimes.com/features/articles/1302/lost_in_space.html
09:05:30  <TrueBrain> why do TCP connections stall :s
09:07:18  <planetmaker> morning
09:07:34  <TrueBrain> morning planetmaker
09:08:06  <planetmaker> hey ho. How're you, TrueBrain ?
09:08:13  <TrueBrain> good good; you?
09:08:24  <TrueBrain> checked out latest WT3? Including the save validation?
09:08:37  <planetmaker> oh, I'm doing fine :)
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09:11:07  <planetmaker> meh... you changed language numbers.
09:11:18  <TrueBrain> I didn't
09:11:20  <TrueBrain> but yes, it did
09:11:26  <TrueBrain> I told you yesterday what german is :p
09:11:31  <TrueBrain> one of the lower numbers
09:11:34  <planetmaker> must have missed that. 7
09:12:00  <planetmaker> a nice prime number :)
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09:13:10  <planetmaker> it still doesn't save, does it?
09:13:33  <TrueBrain> not really, no
09:14:14  <planetmaker> Error: Server Error (1): translator.xmlrpc.Error:getStringDetails(): string '2892' doesn't exist
09:14:36  <planetmaker> STR_TOOLTIP_CUSTOM_CURRENCY_PREVIEW <-- translating and saving that one
09:15:02  <TrueBrain> I shouldn't assume +1 is valid ;)
09:15:03  <TrueBrain> nice :)
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09:54:45  <Gekz> um
09:54:55  <Gekz> is it meant to be hard to set up OpenTTD as a server
09:54:58  <Gekz> on Mac OS X?
09:55:54  <TrueBrain> yes, we made that impossible
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09:57:04  <TrueBrain> (never knew it was hard to press Multiplayer and then Start Server .. but I guess on Mac OSX that is harder than on Windows :p)
09:57:23  <TrueBrain> Gekz: is your mouse working? That might be an issue :)
09:57:58  <Gekz> you sir
09:58:00  <Gekz> are a fucking twat.
09:58:12  <Gekz> you know that has minimal to do with a server actually working
09:58:20  <TrueBrain> Tnx :) Now try asking that question in a matter we can answer it :)
09:58:30  <TrueBrain> like .. what you try and what goes wrong ..
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10:22:02  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: smatz * r16155 /trunk/src/ (functions.h rail_gui.cpp road_gui.cpp viewport.cpp): -Codechange: remove MarkTileDirty, use MarkTileDirtyByTile instead
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10:45:19  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16156 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: make the parameters of DrawStringMultiline the same as for DrawString (except the addition of the bottom parameter)
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10:48:42  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16157 /trunk/src/ (graph_gui.cpp vehicle_gui.cpp): -Fix: wrong truncation of refit cost/graph x labels because they were multiline strings being drawn using DrawString instead of DrawStringMultiLine.
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10:53:54  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: fixed your bug
10:53:57  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: found anything else?
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11:11:04  <Wolf01> the graph months
11:13:04  <Wolf01> oh already fixed, I didn't notice the graph_gui.cpp
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11:45:57  <planetmaker> TrueBrain: right now I didn't see any other strange things :) good work, I say :)
11:48:02  <frosch123> bad ammler, totally drunk at 19:05
11:48:56  <el_en> http://www.phys.ufl.edu/~det/phy2060/heavyboots.html
11:59:35  <planetmaker> frosch123: uh?
12:00:28  <frosch123> he added a redirect to "content download" on the wiki named "bananas :p"
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12:22:07  <TrueBrain> "A smile is an inexpensive way to improve your looks."
12:22:21  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: yexo * r16158 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (8 files): -Codechange: fix the string alignment in all .hpp.sq files
12:29:36  <planetmaker> TrueBrain: nice quote :)
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12:38:14  <glx> TrueBrain: is the importing finished?
12:38:45  <TrueBrain> glx: yup
12:38:49  <TrueBrain> took just 381 minutes
12:38:59  <glx> then there's a problem :)
12:39:05  <TrueBrain> do tell
12:39:27  <glx> 2 untranslated strings are indeed translated
12:39:32  <TrueBrain> known
12:39:34  <TrueBrain> blame Darkvater
12:39:57  <TrueBrain> r7622 introduces those change sin english.txt, where r7619 introduces those changes for the translations
12:40:02  <TrueBrain> which is ... silly, to say the least ;)
12:40:13  <glx> oh :)
12:40:28  <TrueBrain> so when switching to WT3, all translators have to translate 2 strings :p
12:40:34  <TrueBrain> I think ... you guys will survive ;)
12:41:12  <glx> got 4 parameters, expected 3 for {G}
12:41:26  <glx> {LTBLUE}Les nouveaux ordres arrêtent les trains {G au au "à la"} {ORANGE}{STRING}{LTBLUE} du quai par défaut
12:41:34  <glx> it skipped quotes ;)
12:41:36  <TrueBrain> glx: I told you I didn't fix that yet
12:41:50  <TrueBrain> in fact .. I told you 3 times in the last 48 hours :)
12:42:07  <glx> I know but I wanted to try :)
12:43:23  <Sacro> quelle suprise
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14:17:33  <Nachtfalter> Hallo. Folgendes Problem: Ich kann bei jedem normalen Spiel problemlos joinen. Jetzt hat jemand einen Server eingerichtet fÌr das coop-spielen, allerdings kann ich dort nicht joinen. Es lÀdt bis ca. 120kb und dann lÀdt es nur noch sehr, sehr langsam. Wenn es nach 10 Minuten fertig ist, dann hÀngt sich das Spiel auf. Alle anderen können jedoch joinen und spielen, nur ich nicht.
14:17:41  <Nachtfalter> Version 16085, Windows32.
14:17:52  <Nachtfalter> oh, wrong language %)
14:18:30  *** Xeryus|bnc is now known as XeryusTC
14:18:45  <Forked> ..what? :p
14:19:03  <Nachtfalter> Hi, I have a problem. A guy maked a server to play permanently 24h a day. Everbody can join on that. But if I want to join, the Downstream is very very slowed down. If I wait for 10 minutes i can join, but than the game crashes.
14:19:04  <Forked> I understand that there is a problem and it involves something about 120kb in 10 minutes..
14:19:37  <TrueBrain> Nachtfalter: so your connection is too slow ;)
14:19:55  <Nachtfalter> If I download some from the Internet with my Browser I have a downstream like 670kb/s
14:20:01  <Nachtfalter> something*
14:20:06  <TrueBrain> okay, maybe I should put it differently:
14:20:10  <TrueBrain> your connection to the server is too slow
14:20:12  <Forked> so the connection between you and the server is crap..
14:20:18  <TrueBrain> local I can download at 1000 mbit/sec
14:20:26  <TrueBrain> from the internet I am lucky to reach 980 mbit/sec
14:20:30  <Forked> TrueBrain: oh shut up.
14:20:31  <Nachtfalter> I make a tracert and all pings seems to be okay. One line have a timeout.
14:20:32  <TrueBrain> s/980/98/
14:20:33  <TrueBrain> ;)
14:20:50  <Nachtfalter> (tracert to the Server)
14:21:22  <TrueBrain> if other people can join, and you can't, and you are all using unmodified versions, you can be very sure it is just a bad connection between you and him :)
14:21:25  <TrueBrain> (for what ever reason)
14:21:32  <Forked> responsetime is not the same..
14:21:45  <Quit> We are all using an old nightly
14:21:52  <Quit> We can join and have no problems.
14:21:58  <Quit> The dedicated is running on Lenny.
14:22:14  <Quit> Dunno if it has to do anything with the server, I don't think it does.
14:22:15  <TrueBrain> it is a bit like: if the whole world is going insane, it is you that is going insane
14:24:18  <Xaroth> Nachtfalter: you running any downloads while playing?
14:24:28  <Xaroth> or better yet is anybody else on your network running downloads while you are playing?
14:24:38  <Nachtfalter> nope@downloads
14:24:56  <Xaroth> you using wired or wireless network?
14:25:07  <Nachtfalter> wireless
14:25:12  <dihedral> try some wires
14:25:15  <Nachtfalter> but thats not the first time a tried to join
14:25:21  <Nachtfalter> for weeks it works
14:25:29  <Nachtfalter> but today not
14:25:30  <Xaroth> well the thing is, if your wireless signal is being crap
14:25:36  <Xaroth> it will disrupt any connectivity you have
14:25:41  <Xaroth> and mess up your connection
14:25:44  <dihedral> then try using the nightly you used weeks ago when it worked, if you believe it has something to do with openttd
14:25:52  <Quit> It is the same nightly
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14:26:04  <dihedral> then its not an openttd issue :-P
14:26:12  <dihedral> you have network trouble - happens
14:26:27  <Quit> Well, when he joined my local game he disconnected with a strange error about invalid datapackets
14:26:34  *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db002f3.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd
14:26:39  <dihedral> yep - happens
14:26:41  <Nachtfalter> (the first time)
14:26:44  <Nachtfalter> the second it works
14:26:48  <Quit> Every first time he joins a new game I opened?
14:26:49  <dihedral> seen that also
14:30:19  <dihedral> someone borked the game :-D
14:30:20  <Quit> Hm, can it be that the size of the map you have to download from the server shrinks when you save and load?
14:30:26  <dihedral> everything is at value 0
14:30:34  <dihedral> town population: 00,000
14:30:36  <dihedral> :-D
14:30:46  <dihedral> year: 0000
14:30:56  <dihedral> production: 00%
14:31:00  <dihedral> eh
14:31:02  *** NukeBuster [~wouter@80.101.115.82] has joined #openttd
14:31:02  <dihedral> 00
14:32:04  <dihedral> Quit, ??
14:32:18  <Quit> Can be that I remember the wrong file size
14:32:30  <Quit> But I could swear before I restarted the server I had to load 3.18 MB instead of 2.2
14:32:34  <dihedral> even if it did, what difference would it make if some can join and others cannot
14:32:44  <Quit> It would tell me that something is horrible broken :D
14:32:52  <dihedral> no it would not
14:33:06  <dihedral> it would tell you that you were downloading more information, perhaps even quite validly
14:33:23  <Quit> yes - something is "lost"
14:33:25  <dihedral> what game did you load
14:33:36  <Quit> the game I saved two seconds before
14:33:40  <dihedral> not them networkserver.tmp
14:33:40  <Xaroth> 3 mb savegame?
14:33:47  <Xaroth> smells like a 2048x2048 map :P
14:33:49  <Quit> It is
14:33:57  <Xaroth> try running a 1024 map
14:33:58  <dihedral> Xaroth, trees break compression ;-)
14:34:25  <Xaroth> dihedral: large mapsize + wireless being dodgy == issues
14:34:47  <dihedral> wireless + openttd is known to cause issues
14:34:48  <Quit> Oh
14:34:51  <Quit> It's 512x2048
14:34:57  <dihedral> that has nothing to do with the mapsize
14:34:57  <Xaroth> still, try a small map
14:35:00  <Xaroth> see if the same issue occurs
14:35:40  <dihedral> and i am assuming they played that size more often
14:35:53  <Quit> We played the same map for that weeks
14:35:58  <dihedral> see
14:36:01  <Quit> He participated since the beginning
14:36:05  <TrueBrain> enable pause-on-join, and try again
14:36:06  <Quit> And we are still playing the same map
14:36:15  <dihedral> no wonder it's that big!
14:36:46  <Rubidium> you're not running two servers using the same directory, are you?
14:36:53  <Quit> One server.
14:36:59  <TrueBrain> Quit: how many people can join?
14:37:09  <Quit> Maybe autopilot messed up something when it crashed some time ago, but I don't think it did
14:37:15  <Quit> Uh, let me see.
14:37:17  <Quit> 6 afaik
14:37:27  <TrueBrain> so 6 people from remote locations can join, and one can not?
14:37:48  <Quit> At least 3 could
14:37:56  <TrueBrain> now you are not making any sense
14:37:57  <Quit> the other 3 didn't try today, but in the last few.
14:37:59  <dihedral> Quit, how would autopilot do that??
14:38:17  <Quit> dihedral: didn't kill the openttd-process or something like that, that was @ 2 servers
14:38:39  <TrueBrain> so if 3 people can join, and 1 person can not, I think we can safely say it is the 1 person whos connection is borked (or maybe his disk is full :p)
14:38:57  <dihedral> Quit, update ap+
14:39:14  <Quit> dihedral: I'm using an SVN co from, I don't know, when we begun the game
14:39:31  <dihedral> ...
14:39:32  <dihedral> svn up?
14:39:38  <Quit> ?
14:39:54  <dihedral> the issue of not closing openttd correctly in a detached screen is fixed
14:40:04  <dihedral> in ap+ at least
14:40:08  <Nachtfalter> <TrueBrain>so if 3 people can join, and 1 person can not, I think we can safely say it is the 1 person whos connection is borked (or maybe his disk is full :p) <-- disk is not full
14:40:16  <Quit> I'm using around revision 695
14:40:19  <Nachtfalter> and my connection to other apps is pretty good
14:40:20  <dihedral> Nachtfalter, leaving your net connection
14:40:21  <Quit> and yes, ap+
14:40:36  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16159 /trunk/src/gfx.cpp: -Change [FS#2846]: warn when multiline strings are drawn with DrawString and not DrawStringMultiLine.
14:40:36  <dihedral> grab a new version of ap+ and it will close openttd properly
14:40:46  <Xaroth> Quit: what server revision are you using?
14:40:52  <Nachtfalter> dihedral: ?
14:40:53  <Xaroth> or better yet, what IP
14:40:54  <Quit> 16085
14:41:01  <Quit> The server isn't up at the moment
14:41:08  <Quit> I'm trying the "Try a smaller map"-thing
14:41:12  <dihedral> Rubidium, will that fix every number being drawn using only one digit: 0
14:41:21  <dihedral> or has that already been fixed?
14:41:45  *** mikl [~mikl@90.184.195.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:42:05  <dihedral> Nachtfalter, comparing your net connections 'appearance' in other apps is not gonna help you
14:42:11  <dihedral> openttd is pretty sensitive
14:42:30  <Nachtfalter> But what can i do, except use lan cable?
14:42:33  <dihedral> a wireless will cause issues (can cause issues) on openttd, whereas with css it will not
14:42:47  <dihedral> Nachtfalter, have you tried it?
14:42:54  <dihedral> tried using a wired connection?
14:43:03  <Nachtfalter> Need a 20meter cable...so: Not. :/
14:43:28  <Xaroth> O_O no wonder the wireless signal is crap :P
14:43:35  <Quit> He could join with map of 2^8*2^8
14:43:37  <Quit> empty map
14:43:41  <dihedral> well, if people here say what the issue could be, and you show no intent in trying what possibilities are given, i am sorry, but that makes helping you an issue in itself
14:43:42  <Nachtfalter> 60 percent...
14:43:48  <Quit> Is it lagging?
14:43:55  <Nachtfalter> no
14:44:01  <Nachtfalter> I mean 60% wlan signal.
14:44:03  <Quit> ah.
14:44:03  <Xaroth> Quit: what server IP?
14:44:04  <Nachtfalter> thats not soo bad...
14:44:12  <Quit> Xaroth: new.phil24.de
14:44:22  <Quit> :3979
14:44:25  <Quit> password foo
14:44:37  <Quit> It seems like the save lags for him.?
14:44:42  <dihedral> Nachtfalter, some people have 100% signals strength, still the signal is crap ^^
14:44:45  <Nachtfalter> The distance to the router on air-line is not so much, but its the architectual wonder how stretch the distance to the router for a cable... ;)
14:44:56  <Nachtfalter> And dont kill me for my english please.
14:45:18  <TrueBrain> Quit: do you have pause-on-join active?
14:45:30  <dihedral> you could try moving your computer if moving the router or finding a long enough cable is not an option
14:45:36  <Quit> I don't know. The game says something about pausing for joining client
14:45:43  <Quit> And after a second or two it unpauses.
14:45:46  <Quit> so I guess "no"
14:45:46  <TrueBrain> then I guess you have it active :p
14:45:46  <dihedral> i am sure as a temporary test that should not be an issue
14:45:58  <Quit> max_join_time = 500
14:45:58  <Quit> pause_on_join = true
14:46:00  <TrueBrain> as for Nachtfalter it means you are in pause for 10 minutes
14:46:04  <Quit> No.
14:46:07  <TrueBrain> (although 10 minutes is very much impossible, but okay)
14:46:10  <Quit> It doesn't pause when a client is downloading the map
14:46:24  <TrueBrain> that is the whole idea of pause-on-join ...
14:46:27  <Quit> Yes
14:46:28  <dihedral> TrueBrain, it only pauses when the client syncs
14:46:33  <Quit> But downloading the map is what lags
14:46:41  <Nachtfalter> TrueBrain: I looked at my watch, 11min 32 secs...
14:46:51  <TrueBrain> dihedral: seriously? Well, works if the max join-time is below a certain threshold. ...
14:46:52  <dihedral> afaik at least :P
14:47:10  <TrueBrain> max join-time = max time to download
14:47:12  <TrueBrain> ghehe
14:47:19  <dihedral> + sync
14:47:29  <TrueBrain> no, it pauses on sync, you just said :p
14:47:40  <dihedral> i mean max-join-time
14:47:45  <TrueBrain> ah
14:47:46  <dihedral> does that include the sync or not
14:47:51  <TrueBrain> I don't know :)
14:47:54  <TrueBrain> haven't touched the code in ages :p
14:48:04  <dihedral> ^^
14:48:17  <dihedral> dont start it again, it'll get you hooked :-D
14:48:27  <TrueBrain> not planning to ;)
14:48:47  <TrueBrain> Nachtfalter: after the download, you desync immediatly? (or you get kicked)
14:49:10  <Nachtfalter> the game crashes
14:49:11  <Quit> However, I've put up the save game again.
14:49:16  <TrueBrain> define 'crashes'?
14:49:26  <dihedral> Nachtfalter, start openttd from the command line ;-)
14:49:32  <Nachtfalter> No reaction on klick and so windows ask to cancel it.
14:49:46  <Xaroth> Quit: mind if i test connecting?
14:49:54  <TrueBrain> Nachtfalter: euh .. yeah ...
14:49:56  <TrueBrain> next time, wait :p
14:50:08  <Nachtfalter> I wait for 4 Minutes
14:50:09  <dihedral> :-D
14:50:16  <TrueBrain> seeing the fact you guys have been playing for so long, I guess you have a lot of trains
14:50:18  <Nachtfalter> first the game lags very hard and than it freezes
14:50:24  <TrueBrain> so fast-forwarding is almost the same as realtime
14:50:31  <TrueBrain> so I tihnk it needs about 10 to 20 minutes :p
14:50:37  <TrueBrain> (after which you get a kick-message, I guess)
14:50:57  <Nachtfalter> but on Friday - my last join day we also have many trains and theres no waiting time...may 10seks...
14:51:00  <TrueBrain> what might help, if Quit put the game in full pause, you try to join, and see what happens after the 10 minutes :p
14:51:08  <Nachtfalter> and the game wasnt active yesterday and today...
14:51:22  <Nachtfalter> so there are may one ore two trains more
14:51:23  <TrueBrain> Nachtfalter: my best guess is that you have bandwdith trouble .. either someone is using your connection, your ISP is capping, you, or I don't know what more is possible :p
14:51:26  <dihedral> hihi
14:51:33  <dihedral> Nachtfalter, what's your cpu load like?
14:51:39  <dihedral> and how many cores do you have?
14:51:49  <Nachtfalter> two cores á 1,7GhZ
14:51:57  <TrueBrain> Quit: if you start a new game, can Nachtfalter join? :p
14:52:02  <Nachtfalter> load: dunno
14:52:04  <TrueBrain> dihedral: what does it matter how many cores he has?!
14:52:11  <dihedral> if the load is 50% :-D
14:52:16  <dihedral> hihi
14:52:20  <TrueBrain> only Windows fucks that up :p
14:52:45  <dihedral> windows IS a fuck up
14:53:09  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16160 /trunk/src/ (24 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: remove the need for explicit TC_FROMSTRING for DrawString.
14:57:54  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: frosch * r16161 /trunk/src/settings.cpp: -Fix (r16128): AILoadConfig() could not handle NULL settings.
14:59:04  <Quit> so
14:59:06  <Quit> returned.
14:59:18  <Quit> <Xaroth> Quit: mind if i test connecting? <= of course not.
15:00:21  <Quit> <TrueBrain> Quit: if you start a new game, can Nachtfalter join? :p <= if *i* local start it: yes. If the server starts a new: yes. except it is 2^11*2^11, then it's lagging again
15:01:00  <TrueBrain> Quit: so start a http server on the server, and let Nachtfalter download something from it; if it is slow again, it is really 100% his connection
15:01:07  <dihedral> you and the server are on different networks right?
15:01:15  <dihedral> i.e. have different providers
15:01:23  <Quit> dihedral: The server is in germany, I'm in Switzerland
15:01:24  <Quit> I bet yes
15:01:50  <Quit> TrueBrain: I also thought about that, but I don't have access to anything at http
15:02:23  <Nachtfalter> But that makes no sense, if I could join on Quit withoit problems and couldnt join on a german server...
15:02:29  <TrueBrain> so pause the game completely, let him join, wait 10 minutes for the map to download, and you should be fine
15:02:46  <TrueBrain> Nachtfalter: and how doesn't that make sense? You never had a slow conenction to one server, and not to an other?
15:02:47  <dihedral> Nachtfalter, of course it makes sense
15:02:52  <TrueBrain> you don't have traffic-jams in your country?
15:03:03  <TrueBrain> it happens, that one road is inaccessbile, while the other is super-fast
15:03:25  <Nachtfalter> but I can change the road, if its full :P
15:03:31  <Quit> The pathfinding is too bad   .
15:03:37  <TrueBrain> so you did .. you changed road and exit at Quit
15:03:38  <Xaroth> on the intarwebs it's a bit more difficult than that :P
15:03:41  <dihedral> however it makes sense that people without network understanding would not understand the network issue
15:03:41  <Nachtfalter> need more PBS...
15:03:43  <TrueBrain> which then worked fine
15:04:13  <dihedral> my my
15:04:26  *** tosse [tosse@tosse.pp.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:04:59  <planetmaker> that's so funny. You set up a test server. Wait for 30 minutes - and suddenly you have the 2nd most players in the server list :P
15:05:24  <dihedral> HAHA
15:05:29  *** Rexxars [~rexxars@62.73.249.23] has quit [Quit: edgepro: There are two kinds of people, those who finish what they start and so on.]
15:05:55  <dihedral> but planetmaker: openttdcoop HAS the a log of players anyway!
15:06:12  <Quit> okay, I'm pretty scared right now
15:06:20  <Quit> when I tracert the server he redirects me to germany
15:06:21  <Quit> and then to paris
15:06:23  <planetmaker> Yeah. but it's a different channel. And it's stable 0.7.0 :)
15:06:31  <Quit> and then to germany again.
15:06:31  <dihedral> and what is that, a kind of sandbox?
15:06:47  <TrueBrain> Quit: scared, why?
15:06:49  <planetmaker> the server? Basically a connectivity test :P
15:06:53  <TrueBrain> don't try to understand internet routing
15:07:04  <Quit> Why not?
15:07:09  <TrueBrain> Because you will fail :)
15:07:15  <Quit> And why?
15:07:32  <TrueBrain> If I name myself Iamhere.de
15:07:36  <TrueBrain> does that mean I am located in germany?
15:07:41  <dihedral> :-P
15:07:43  <TrueBrain> (just to give one example why you would fail)
15:07:53  *** Progman [~progman@p57A1EBBE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
15:07:59  <dihedral> Quit, the cambridge university connection is linked via new york
15:08:14  <Quit> Okay
15:08:20  <TrueBrain> if I have 2 routes to an endpoint, one via fibers, and one via a PPP connection over some weird ADSL
15:08:26  <TrueBrain> the first goes over Tokio, the second is direct
15:08:29  <dihedral> at least some of the colleges student lodgings is
15:08:31  <Quit> PPPoA?
15:08:32  <TrueBrain> would it be better or worse to pick the PPP?
15:08:39  <Quit> I would say better
15:08:47  <Quit> Because I'm using PPPoA for years :P
15:08:49  <TrueBrain> so you want shorter distance over faster connecitivty?
15:08:55  <TrueBrain> ah, yes yes, you are one of them
15:08:58  *** tosse [tosse@tosse.pp.se] has joined #openttd
15:09:03  <dihedral> TrueBrain, :-D
15:09:04  <Quit> I don't like when signals have to walk long distances
15:09:08  <TrueBrain> so you are still using a bike with 1 big frontwheel and one small backwheel?
15:09:14  <TrueBrain> my great great parents used that for years
15:09:17  <Quit> Of course
15:09:20  <Quit> Is there something better?
15:09:32  <TrueBrain> so I can only repeat myself to say: you will fail :)
15:09:44  <Quit> No, serious, I would take the fibre
15:09:47  <dihedral> no there is nothing better, just dont try to understand why other people are faster
15:09:47  <Quit> Except in Switzerland
15:09:59  <Quit> I wouldn't take them here. Even my provider doesn't know what they did.
15:10:06  <dihedral> my ^^
15:10:15  <Quit> yes, it's called 'Bluewin'
15:10:17  * dihedral gets some pop corn
15:10:19  <Quit> It's more 'bluefail'
15:10:28  <Quit> Once I called them why my Internet isn't working
15:10:36  <Quit> the answer was too funny
15:10:47  <Quit> It was winter and, well, they said the pipes were frozen.
15:10:58  <dihedral> they probably told you the truth and you didnt get it :-P
15:11:08  <Quit> *frozen* copper cables?
15:11:15  <dihedral> yep
15:11:20  <Quit> I don't want to know what they use when it's summer
15:11:21  <TrueBrain> they would only operate faster :)
15:11:26  <dihedral> dont allow as fast communication :-)
15:11:40  <Quit> yes, the bad thing was, I think she was serious
15:11:41  <dihedral> TrueBrain, FROZEN... not chilled
15:11:46  <TrueBrain> dihedral: yes
15:11:59  <TrueBrain> Quit: you should have asked them back if they couldn't put on the voltage a bit, to heat them up :p
15:12:04  <Quit> *g*
15:12:10  <dihedral> freeze your cpu's core and tell me what works better :-P
15:12:20  <Quit> Well, I called them for their "revolution", 20 Mbit/s, it's fibre
15:12:27  <Quit> Call#1: "No, we can't do that for you. You are too far away"
15:12:38  <Quit> Call#2 and 3: "Yes, of course, you can use full speed! WANNA BUY NAO???"
15:12:45  <Quit> I'm scared of calling them again
15:12:57  <dihedral> bluewin sucks
15:12:58  <TrueBrain> so I can only suggest to not do that ;)
15:13:13  <Quit> I mean
15:13:22  <Quit> They don't even give me my 5000 kbit/s
15:13:42  <Quit> at least, my router and their webcheck tells me that
15:13:49  <Quit> the support always says everything is fine and good and goodbye
15:13:49  <Gekz> Quit: bluewin really suck
15:13:55  <Gekz> according to the openttd wiki
15:14:01  <Gekz> or was it steam
15:14:02  <Gekz> it was one of them
15:14:16  <Quit> .. he?
15:14:37  <Quit> I don't have any problems with Steam, and I don't think steam has one with me
15:15:00  <dihedral> bluewin still sucks :-P
15:16:09  <Quit> Oh. I see what you mean
15:16:27  <Quit> "* Bluewin (blockt Steam dur Providerseitige Firewall, den Service anrufen um sie auszuschalten)"
15:16:31  <Quit> bluewin blocks steam ports?
15:16:34  <Quit> would be new for me.
15:16:37  <Quit> Maybe it's another bluewin.
15:16:53  <dihedral> ...
15:16:55  <dihedral> yep sure
15:16:58  <dihedral> of course
15:17:08  <Quit> I remember there was a bluewin in not-switzerland
15:17:34  <Quit> the swiss bluewin is part of "swisscom" now, so it's not bluewin anymore :P
15:17:45  <dihedral> ...
15:18:00  <Quit> okay
15:18:01  <dihedral> does not mean you have different peering, or different support staff
15:18:05  <Quit> My points are stupid and silly and everything.
15:18:19  <dihedral> a direct swisscom connection would probably be better
15:18:25  <dihedral> however, they like phion
15:18:30  <dihedral> and phion sucks
15:18:46  <dihedral> they use their own network notation :-P
15:18:53  <dihedral> a real /8 is a phion /24 :-D
15:18:59  <dihedral> they just reverse it :-P
15:19:05  <dihedral> stupid idiots
15:19:25  <Quit> .. okay.
15:20:50  <Quit> You've got only two real choices here
15:20:58  <Quit> something that uses swisscom in the backend and Cablecom
15:21:09  <Quit> use cablecom can (and mostly will result) in happy finding packets
15:21:13  <TrueBrain> dihedral: 'a real /8'? There is no such thing :)
15:21:24  <dihedral> ...
15:21:40  <dihedral> what you and i understand under a /24 network
15:21:44  <dihedral> is a phion /8
15:21:46  *** George [~George@212.113.107.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:21:46  <TrueBrain> we call it a netmask
15:21:46  <dihedral> reversed
15:22:10  <TrueBrain> a /8 netmask is a /24 hostmask
15:22:29  <dihedral> so 10.0.1.0/24 is a netmask? :-P
15:22:39  <Rubidium> aren't they both netmasks?
15:22:42  <TrueBrain> that is CIDR notation, where /24 indicates the netmask
15:22:49  <Quit> I want to have your problems *cough*
15:22:52  <Nachtfalter> okay, tweteen minutes at least
15:22:57  <TrueBrain> 10.0.0.0 <- net part of the address
15:23:02  <dihedral> yep
15:23:04  <TrueBrain> 0.0.1.1 <- host part of the address
15:23:08  <dihedral> i only differed with and without the /
15:23:45  <TrueBrain> (there is no real way to write the host part like that :) Ghehe :))
15:23:57  <dihedral> cisco :-P
15:24:09  <dihedral> and what the rest of the world uses
15:25:54  <Forked> do they use /31 yet for p2p links?
15:26:34  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16162 /trunk/src/ (60 files in 5 dirs): -Codechange: remove needless TC_ colours from DrawString when they are part of strings and add some colours to a few strings.
15:28:41  <Quit> back to NFs problems: he can join with paused game, seems to be no problem, although the map download is taking 20mins
15:28:59  <TrueBrain> so we say it again: his connection is bad
15:29:12  <Quit> Hm.
15:29:20  <dihedral> how many more times?
15:29:26  <TrueBrain> (why do I always hate repeating myself? :p)
15:29:37  <dihedral> repaeat("bat net connection", 5);
15:29:44  <dihedral> ehh...
15:29:46  <dihedral> crap
15:29:49  <TrueBrain> bats, yes, we have bats
15:29:49  <Quit> "Bad Net Connection"*5
15:29:51  <Quit> I love ruby :P
15:29:55  * dihedral flaps his bat wings
15:30:06  <dihedral> yuck :-D
15:30:13  <Forked> meep.
15:30:18  <Nachtfalter> Now it works.
15:30:30  <Nachtfalter> but with over 20 minutes waiting time...
15:30:35  <Quit> Nachtfalter: Good morning
15:30:38  <Quit> I've already said that
15:30:43  <dihedral> Nachtfalter, your net connection SUCKS
15:31:00  <TrueBrain> it really does
15:31:12  <dihedral> but we said that like 20 mins ago :-P
15:31:27  <Nachtfalter> I think ottd sucks with my internet connection :s
15:31:33  <Forked> but he is on "superkabel.de" !
15:31:54  <TrueBrain> yeah, for weeks it is okay, but now OpenTTD thought: lets annoy Nachtfalter :)
15:32:02  <Forked> it can't be the connection. :p anyway.. is anyone using the connecting for something thats perhaps a heavy bandwith user?
15:32:08  *** Progman [~progman@p57A1EBBE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:32:30  <Quit> That wouldn't explain why other servers work
15:32:44  <dihedral> Quit, it WOULD
15:32:47  <dihedral> no
15:32:48  <dihedral> sorry
15:32:49  <Forked> so it's an issue between the two ISPs ..
15:32:56  <dihedral> it would not explain, but it's possible
15:33:04  <TrueBrain> which happens .. Internet is still beta :)
15:33:09  <glx> bad peering ;)
15:33:18  <dihedral> there is no reason why working on one server would mean it must work on another
15:33:42  <Quit> .oO(Connection reseted by Peer SteinbrÃŒck)
15:33:58  <TrueBrain> haha
15:34:04  <glx> ping may be ok, even if bandwith peering is limited
15:34:28  <dihedral> :-P
15:34:48  *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@f051131038.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
15:35:15  <Quit> Just for the test
15:35:26  <Quit> How could I create via SSH a 4 MB file that contains nothing?
15:35:33  <Quit> nothing or something, whatever
15:35:38  <Quit> doesn't matter I guess
15:35:47  <Quit> I've got no idea about linux
15:35:56  <TrueBrain> dd if=/dev/null of=test count=4000 (don't know the 'count' value)
15:36:04  <TrueBrain> or maybe if=/dev/random
15:36:08  <TrueBrain> or even /dev/urandom
15:36:11  <Rubidium> dd if=/dev/zero of=<filename> bs=1048576 count=4
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15:41:27  <dihedral> echo "foo" > /dev/kmem :-D
15:41:39  <TrueBrain> dihedral: no
15:41:44  <dihedral> :-D
15:41:45  <dihedral> hihi
15:41:55  <TrueBrain> bad dihedral
15:41:57  <TrueBrain> bad bad bad dihedral
15:42:01  <dihedral> hihihihihi
15:42:11  <dihedral> boooom
15:42:19  <Quit> What does it?
15:42:24  <Quit> I'm not root on the server anyway :P
15:42:26  <TrueBrain> puts "foo" in your kernel memory
15:42:32  <TrueBrain> not really what you want :p
15:42:33  <Quit> Sounds funny
15:42:45  <Quit> I created the file
15:42:50  <Quit> But it seems like apache is down
15:42:53  <Quit> And I can't start it.
15:42:57  <Quit> br.
15:42:57  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16163 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: instead of SetDParamStr(0, string); DrawString(..., STR_JUST_RAW_STRING, ...) use DrawString(..., string, ...).
15:43:34  <dihedral> Quit, it sounds funny to those watching... literally :-D
15:43:48  <Quit> I can imagine :D
15:44:05  <TrueBrain> cat file | nc -l 8000 :p
15:44:13  <TrueBrain> maybe nc -l -p 8000 .. dunno :p
15:44:16  *** Gekz [~gekko@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: leaving]
15:44:34  <TrueBrain> then just open a telnet to that port :)
15:44:36  <TrueBrain> enjoy the show
15:44:41  <dihedral> :-D
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16:00:57  <dihedral> we told you!!
16:01:08  <Quit> I don't have anything to do with that
16:01:11  <Quit> and I think he just quit
16:01:16  <Quit> Because in the other network he is still there.
16:01:29  <Quit> (you know, the anti-comicchat-network :P)
16:02:00  <dihedral> you really dont get that just because someone is able to connect to a means he can connect to b...
16:02:30  <Quit> I get it
16:02:32  <Quit> He doesn't, kinda
16:02:41  <dihedral> ^^
16:03:44  <Quit> so
16:03:47  <Quit> It's now getting interesting
16:03:51  <Quit> He's trying the apache-download.
16:04:02  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: glx * r16164 /trunk/config.lib: -Fix: make dependencies checking more accurate by using compiler's built-in defines
16:04:08  <Quit> Okay
16:04:12  <Quit> Now, please explain me:
16:04:21  <Quit> How can he download 740kbps with http, but 7kbps in ottd? :P
16:04:31  <Quit> Oh. sure. The port is different. It must be the port .
16:04:43  <glx> probably ISP filtering :)
16:04:47  <TrueBrain> don't start to be sarcastic towards us
16:04:51  <TrueBrain> like we are the ones to blame here
16:05:07  <glx> Quit: start openttd on port 80 to check :)
16:05:10  <Quit> His ISP added a filter in.. about a week?
16:05:32  <Quit> well, could be possible
16:08:54  <planetmaker> in order to slow down all those torrent downloads. Why not.
16:08:56  <planetmaker> stuff happens
16:10:23  <dihedral> hehe - stuff, e.g. shit :-D
16:11:19  *** George [~George@212.113.107.216] has joined #openttd
16:11:27  <planetmaker> yeah. Or the automatic porn analyzer by the government / secret service / NSA / ... what ever is slower with those packets :P
16:11:56  <dihedral> lets talk with iana :-D
16:12:19  <planetmaker> he :)
16:15:15  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: yexo * r16165 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (6 files):
16:15:15  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Add [FS#2801] [NoAI]: several functions to AIOrder to check the what kind of order an order is.
16:15:15  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Fix: AIOrder::GetOrderDestination and AIOrder::GetOrderFlags didn't work on ORDER_CURRENT when the vehicle was loading/leaving in a station.
16:16:42  <Alberth> Hmm, /topic says "#openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices", but I didn't see a message for the new FS#2862 issue today.
16:17:04  <Yexo> the fs notices were broken a long time ago and never fixed
16:17:08  <TrueBrain> @op
16:17:11  *** mode/#openttd [+o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
16:17:16  *** TrueBrain changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.7.0 | Website: *.openttd.org (BaNaNaS: bananas, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs, Revision log: vcs, Release info: finger) | #openttd.notice for SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | English only | Discussion of realism is now a quietable offence
16:17:17  <TrueBrain> @deop
16:17:19  *** mode/#openttd [-o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
16:17:19  <TrueBrain> ;)
16:17:29  <TrueBrain> FlySpray no longer Supports the XMLRPC server they had ...
16:17:38  <Alberth> fixed !   :)
16:17:48  *** dyzdyz [~dyzdyz@193.189.116.2] has joined #openttd
16:17:48  <dihedral> :-P
16:17:55  <dyzdyz> hi all
16:18:19  <Alberth> hi
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16:21:34  <glx> TrueBrain: you could replace FS with CF ;)
16:21:43  <dyzdyz> i've got a problem with patching ottd source with tortoiseSVN... i download correct rev with tSVN, then click "apply patch", choose *.diff file, and... nothing happens :-/ just stays on TortoiseMerge window. What's wrong?
16:21:45  <TrueBrain> glx: feel free
16:22:06  <glx> but it never report a win32 failure
16:22:24  <TrueBrain> glx: http://bugs.openttd.org, website section
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16:23:18  <Alberth> dyzdyz: don't know tortoiseSVN, but maybe it is already finished? (ie are the files changed now?)
16:23:34  <Yexo> dyzdyz: what patch are you trying to apply?
16:23:42  <Yexo> I've heard about that behaviour with git/hg patches
16:23:51  <glx> maybe you have to fix conflicts too
16:23:54  <dyzdyz> Yexo: cargodist
16:24:07  <planetmaker> that might be a hg patch
16:24:15  <glx> tortoise can't read git patches
16:24:21  <Quit> stupid idea, but. would it be possible to modificate ottd in a way it would work as p2p program?
16:24:25  <glx> (tortoise fault)
16:24:33  <dyzdyz> oh, so i have to use some other software to apply this patch?
16:24:39  <Yexo> yes
16:24:40  <planetmaker> dyzdyz, get tortoiseHG :)
16:24:40  <Alberth> dyzdyz: copy/paste the first 10 lines or so of the patch file into a pastebin plz
16:25:09  <dyzdyz> Alberth: ok, brb
16:25:22  <Yexo> Quit: what's the point?
16:25:24  <glx> remove a/ and b/ from --- and +++ lines
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16:25:50  <Quit> Yexo: They activated some kind of filter the last days in germany
16:26:02  <Quit> I think they think that ottd is a p2p program that shares children pr0n.
16:26:33  <planetmaker> Quit, ottd continues to work fine here.
16:26:35  <glx> Quit: it's more openttd uses a not "standard" port
16:26:48  <Quit> What would be a "standard" port?
16:26:49  <Yexo> Quit: as long as you're the only one reporting problems, it's not like a huge problem
16:26:53  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: frosch * r16166 /trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Add [NoAI]: AITile::Get(Min|Max|Corner)Height
16:26:57  <planetmaker> and the filter - it's a DNS thing. Not a port thing
16:27:00  <Yexo> standard ports are ports < 1024
16:27:01  <Alberth> dyzdyz: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=780601#p780601  did you see this?
16:27:19  <planetmaker> AND: it's not yet implemented.
16:28:10  <dyzdyz> Alberth: thanks, i'll try it now, should help
16:29:05  <Alberth> dyzdyz: a simple search can be quite effective ;)
16:29:09  <Quit> planetmaker: Here it does also, but for him it seems like it's broken. At least that server
16:29:33  <planetmaker> Well. It's _his_ local problem obviously.
16:30:13  <planetmaker> yes, we have also a server which doesn't advertize. Why ever. But even other servers on the same machine work fine with even the same port. So it's also clearly a local thing
16:30:14  <dihedral> Quit, there are enough servers in germany he can try to connect to
16:30:17  <Quit> Assumed it's something his provider does, yes.
16:30:24  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r16167 /trunk/src/widget_type.h: -Codechange: Added empty-ness test to nested widget containers.
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16:30:42  <Quit> dihedral: Yea, we could try that as a last thing
16:30:50  <Quit> Assuming it would work fine. What could it be then?
16:30:52  <dihedral> as a last thing?
16:31:03  <dihedral> HIS NET CONNECTION SUCKS
16:31:06  <planetmaker> Quit, as last thing?!
16:31:13  <dihedral> my fucking word!
16:31:14  <Quit> hurr.
16:31:21  <planetmaker> I'd try it at first, if I couldn't connect to a particular server
16:31:34  <Quit> I don't know
16:31:36  <Quit> I hate networking
16:31:43  <Quit> I'm happy when everything works as expected .
16:31:46  <dihedral> and if you come here and ask for help, then do what people suggest
16:31:53  <dihedral> else nobody will want to continue helping
16:32:06  <Quit> "his connection sucks" does not help
16:32:18  <dihedral> ok
16:32:20  <dihedral> i'll rephrase
16:32:21  <glx> Quit: as suggested start the server on another port
16:32:25  <dihedral> there is nothing openttd can do for you
16:32:26  <Quit> glx: Same thing
16:32:37  <glx> even on port 80 ?
16:32:40  <Quit> Tried a few things between 1025 and 14580
16:32:49  <dihedral> glx, layer 7 firewalls?
16:33:01  <planetmaker> probably layer 8 :P
16:33:03  <Quit> Not on 80, not
16:33:18  <glx> thought 8080 may work too
16:34:00  <dihedral> my word
16:34:36  <Quit> 8080 doesn't
16:34:53  <el_en> good night, Gekz
16:36:11  <dihedral> Quit: let him try to connect to openttd.dihedral.de:3979
16:36:15  *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
16:36:23  <dihedral> that server is located in germany too
16:37:14  <Quit> One second
16:38:10  <Quit> Which version?
16:38:50  <dihedral> http://www.openttd.org/en/server/10
16:41:03  <Quit> It works a bit better for him
16:41:17  <dihedral> he is not connected
16:41:20  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r16168 /trunk/src/osk_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Removing unused WWT_EMPTY widget.
16:41:22  <Quit> He is connecting
16:41:26  <Quit> 270 kbps
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16:41:51  <Quit> oh
16:41:52  <Quit> no
16:41:54  <Quit> ~50 kbps
16:42:02  <Quit> and less
16:42:13  <dihedral> there you have it again
16:42:16  <dihedral> HIS issue
16:42:19  <dihedral> :P
16:42:23  <dihedral> hihi
16:42:29  <planetmaker> traffic shaper :P
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16:48:16  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r16169 /trunk/src/osk_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Completing OSK widget numbers.
16:48:37  <Quit> I can't understand why his connection "should suck" on every port except 80
16:48:58  <Yexo> because either he has a router that sucks or his isp filters certain traffic
16:49:10  <Yexo> anyway, it's *his* problem, not a problem of openttd
16:49:33  <dihedral> Yexo, we've been telling him that for over an hour now :-P
16:49:40  <Yexo> I know
16:52:02  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r16170 /trunk/src/osk_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Added nested widgets to OSK.
16:52:06  <Quit> I think there is only one way to fix that
16:52:20  <Quit> ottd has to become a browsergame. Then everything will be fine.
16:52:29  <Quit> There's a lot of work to do.
16:52:34  *** Quit [quit@27-130.62-81.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: So. Let's begin.]
16:52:35  <dihedral> quit it!
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17:01:17  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: yexo * r16171 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_tile.hpp ai_tile.hpp.sq): -Add [NoAI]: two new error codes to AITile: ERR_AREA_ALREADY_FLAT and ERR_ESCAVATION_WOULD_DAMAGE.
17:01:51  *** George [~George@212.113.107.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:02:00  *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd []
17:16:42  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: yexo * r16172 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_tile.hpp ai_tile.hpp.sq): -Fix (r16171): typo (thanks SmatZ)
17:19:21  *** thingwath [~thingwath@comp55-133.vpn.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:20:18  <el_en> "Add" and not "Codechange"?
17:22:33  <Yexo> yes, it's add
17:22:43  <Yexo> those are available to AIs, so it's not just an internal change
17:23:34  <SmatZ> Yexo: he doesn't ask questions because he wants to know the aswer, he wants attention
17:38:50  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: translators * r16173 /trunk/src/lang/ (8 files):
17:38:50  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-04-26 17:38:31
17:38:50  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 35 fixed by khaloofah (35)
17:38:50  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: catalan - 10 fixed by arnaullv (10)
17:38:52  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: estonian - 10 fixed, 26 changed by kristjans (36)
17:38:52  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: german - 10 fixed by planetmaker (10)
17:38:54  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: italian - 10 fixed by lorenzodv (10)
17:42:10  <pavel1269> 10,10,10 and 10 fixes? :-P
17:42:31  <Yexo> fixes are translated strings that were not previously translated
17:42:38  <Yexo> and yesterday alberth added 10 new strings
17:46:21  <planetmaker> you can now add your local currency, pavel1269
17:52:05  <SpComb> ESCAVATION?
17:52:20  <SpComb> itym EXCAVATION
17:52:33  * TrueBrain gives SpComb a few pills
17:52:55  <SpComb> spelling errors in commit messages D:
17:53:00  <SpComb> death and doom is upon ye
18:03:41  *** Progman [~progman@p57A1EBBE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
18:04:33  *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x3ef3a188.virnxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
18:04:36  *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
18:07:15  * Sacro hugs Bjarni tigtly
18:07:39  <Bjarni> \o/
18:07:55  <Bjarni> my marketing plan worked out just great
18:08:06  <Bjarni> even Sacro bought a Bjarni™ doll
18:08:24  <Bjarni> PROFIT!
18:09:34  <SmatZ> hello Bjarni
18:11:12  <Bjarni> hello SmatZ
18:12:39  <Sacro> Bjarni: yes, i take it to bed every night
18:12:55  <Prof_Frink> A Bjarni realdoll?
18:14:08  *** ecke [~ecke@21.161.broadband7.iol.cz] has joined #openttd
18:14:20  <Bjarni> eek
18:14:37  <Bjarni> well I guess there are weirdos abusing your product everywhere
18:15:45  <Bjarni> Prof_Frink: what's realdoll? I wonder if you want to know if it's a real doll or if you refer to something I don't know
18:16:07  <el_en> Bjarni: http://images.google.com/
18:16:09  <Bjarni> I guess I could mess up the reply if it's something along the line for Sacro
18:16:42  <Bjarni> WTF
18:16:51  <Bjarni> people really buy those things???
18:18:03  * Bjarni wonders how it can be that Prof_Frink knew that
18:18:06  <Bjarni> wait
18:18:12  <Bjarni> I don't want to know >.<
18:20:10  *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-125-041.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd
18:21:24  <Hirundo> Is it possible to access the *old* value of an advanced setting in the proc-on-change callback?
18:22:18  <frosch123> is the value in _settings already changed?
18:22:26  <Yexo> yes, just use _settings_game.xxx.yyy
18:22:29  <Yexo> frosch123: no
18:23:02  <Bjarni> if _settings isn't changed, then it would just be a case of reading this
18:23:26  <Bjarni> looks like simple unless I missed something
18:23:57  <Hirundo> _settings_* is already changed
18:24:15  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Had you really not heard of realdolls?
18:24:18  <Bjarni> great... download compressed file (12k). Download tool to decompress it: 22 mb
18:24:28  <Prof_Frink> Then again, you hadn't heard of hello.jpg
18:24:40  <Bjarni> somehow I think it would be faster to just download an uncompressed file
18:25:13  <Bjarni> I think Prof_Frink is aware of too much for his own good
18:25:19  <Bjarni> it can't be mentally healthy
18:25:56  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: I just look at Dave2 and consider myself normal.
18:26:20  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Tubgirl? Meatspin? Lemonparty? 2girls1cup?
18:26:29  * Prof_Frink awaits the inevitable
18:26:38  <SmatZ> Prof_Frink: you forgot 1guy1cup
18:28:50  <Bjarni> I feel like Prof_Frink wants to show me something nice which is completely off topic so I will google it with "I'm feeling lucky"
18:28:54  <Bjarni> NOT
18:29:07  <SmatZ> hehe
18:29:16  <Bjarni> I don't want to know
18:29:45  <Bjarni> and I wonder if we can survive having a proper channel with a guy spreading stuff like that
18:30:02  <planetmaker> Hm... if I join a server, is there a quick way to see which companies are an AI and which not?
18:30:35  <SmatZ> planetmaker: I think you can't join companies played by AI
18:30:40  <SmatZ> so the "Join" button is disabled
18:30:42  <Bjarni> are you using a version which allows AI in MP in the first place?
18:30:43  <SmatZ> just guessing though
18:30:44  <planetmaker> The only means I see is to try to join from ingame - then the button in the company window is disabled. Or when joining in from the server list, I get a protocol error
18:30:58  <planetmaker> SmatZ: yes, that's the case
18:31:05  <planetmaker> Bjarni: yes.
18:31:32  <Bjarni> so somebody fixed the AI desync issues?
18:31:46  <Yexo> Bjarni: there have been none with noai
18:31:52  <SmatZ> do you mean merging the NoAI branch?
18:32:02  <Bjarni> ahh
18:32:05  <SmatZ> a one-liner...
18:32:12  <planetmaker> :D
18:45:49  <Bjarni> Undefined symbols:
18:45:49  <Bjarni>   "_select50", referenced from:
18:45:49  <Bjarni>       NetworkReceive()     in network.o
18:45:49  <Bjarni>       ClientNetworkContentSocketHandler::SendReceive()       in network_content.o
18:45:49  <Bjarni>       InputWaiting()     in dedicated_v.o
18:45:55  <Bjarni> known issue?
18:45:59  <Bjarni> head revision
18:46:06  <SmatZ> make clean && make
18:46:36  <SmatZ> or better configure --without-makedepend
18:46:49  <Bjarni> classic computer approach: if it doesn't work, try again
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18:52:07  <planetmaker> Hm... I got a PBS reservation in OpenTTD 0.7.0 which shouldn't be there anymore but got not cleared
18:52:22  <planetmaker> look and see on the #openttdcoop Welcome server.
18:59:58  <Bjarni> damn
19:00:17  <Bjarni> make clean and --without-makedepend didn't fix the issue :(
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19:04:13  <glx> Bjarni: compile farm has no problem
19:04:19  <Bjarni> odd
19:04:41  * Bjarni tries with a new clean checkout
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19:12:57  <Yexo> TrueBrain / glx: how did disabling the join button for Ai companies work in the noai branch? It doesn't work in trunk anymore, and when trying to fix it it seems to require a bump to NETWORK_COMPANY_INFO_VERSION
19:16:20  <TrueBrain> I can't remember it was ever disabled ... ;)
19:16:38  <Yexo> maybe there were only plans to disable it then
19:16:43  <TrueBrain> ;)
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19:30:55  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: yexo * r16174 /trunk/src/ai/ai_instance.cpp: -Fix (r16093) [FS#2863]: crash when starting a game/loading a game with no AIs available.
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19:48:54  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: yexo * r16175 /trunk/src/network/ (core/config.h network_client.cpp network_server.cpp): -Fix: Disable the join button in the multiplayer lobby for AI companies, since joining an AI company is not possible.
19:48:56  <Yexo> planetmaker: there you go :)
19:49:22  <planetmaker> oh :)
19:49:43  * planetmaker hugs Yexo
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19:51:47  <Phazorx> evening
19:52:05  <Phazorx> should there be any issues compiling recent revisions on mingw?
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19:55:17  <frosch123> Phazorx: if it cannot be fixed with "make clean && configure --without-makedepend && make" then they are unknown
19:55:19  <Yexo> no, do you have any problems?
19:55:48  <Phazorx> frosch123: i'l try in sec.. can yu elaborate more into why does it bork there?
19:56:13  <frosch123> makedepend has a file limit, and OTTD has grown to big for it
19:56:37  <Phazorx> hmm... can't say that make-d sugges xactly that
19:58:14  <Phazorx> http://pastebin.ca/1403690
20:00:25  <SmatZ> Got a SIGCHLD; 1 unreaped children.
20:00:43  * SmatZ isn't sure if he wants to know what "reaped child" is
20:01:12  *** maristo [~maristo@host217-114-156-151.pppoe.mark-itt.net] has joined #openttd
20:01:14  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: ghehehe :)
20:01:20  *** P0lygon is now known as Polygon
20:01:22  <TrueBrain> Normal OSes call those children zombies ... but okay ;)
20:01:24  <Phazorx> hola TB
20:01:26  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: yexo * r16176 /trunk/src/ (console_cmds.cpp network/network_server.cpp): -Fix: forbid joining AI companies via the 'move' and 'join' console commands.
20:01:29  <SmatZ> :)
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20:06:01  <Phazorx> grrr... i'm too lazy to read changelog, here do GRFs go by default now and is it relative/absolute, and can it dig subfolders?
20:06:11  <Phazorx> s/here/there/
20:06:16  <Phazorx> s/here/Where/
20:06:33  <Yexo> yes, you can put newgrfs in subfolders
20:06:47  <Yexo> are you using windows?
20:06:52  <Phazorx> and by default ere are in data, next to bin ?
20:06:56  <frosch123> trg1* maybe not
20:06:57  <Phazorx> yexo sort of
20:06:58  <Yexo> then the most likely locations are My Documents/Openttd/Data
20:07:28  <Phazorx> so... absolute and it digs... thanks
20:07:58  <Yexo> files downloaded via the ingame content download system go in openttd/content_download/data
20:08:04  <Yexo> you can also put them in the data folder where the binary is, then it's relative
20:08:32  <Phazorx> i tried... in fact they are there, but it complains. might be something else tho
20:08:37  <Phazorx> it doesnt see sample.cat even
20:09:16  <Phazorx> which makes total sense since i dont ee it either
20:09:55  <frosch123> you can also try "openttd -d misc=3"
20:10:09  <frosch123> and it will tell you where it searches
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20:20:28  <Phazorx> so, ttd grfs have to be relative to data along wth sample.cat and rest grfs hav tobe abolute in userdir while DLed ones go into another dir
20:20:35  <Phazorx> is there a way to consolidate all that?
20:20:36  <frosch123> TrueBrain: OOM ?
20:20:50  <TrueBrain> no thank you
20:20:52  <Yexo> Phazorx: no, all of them can be in the data folder
20:21:04  <Yexo> the data folder an be located in any of the searchpath readme.txt tells you about
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20:36:48  <Rubidium> Bjarni: looks like you're compiling against a different lib/headers than the ones it runtime links on or so
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20:42:11  <Bjarni> it works with one revision and fails with another one
20:42:41  <Bjarni> you might be right but if that is the case then it's most likely a bug in the makefile
20:42:43  <TrueBrain> OSX has that problem more often ;)
20:42:59  <Bjarni> and somebody added something that triggered this difference
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20:43:36  <Rubidium> but why is it only failing for you?
20:43:46  <Bjarni> that's a very good question
20:43:56  <Bjarni> I wish I could answer that one
20:44:05  <Rubidium> could be a mess caused by installing two sdks
20:44:33  <Bjarni> I'm not linking against the SDKs
20:44:48  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: he is not the first one :)
20:44:52  <TrueBrain> I have seen the link error before :)
20:45:33  <Rubidium> that's probably when I was mixing SDKs ;)
20:45:42  <TrueBrain> nope, a user
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20:46:12  <Bjarni> I *think* I'm only linking against default libs right now
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20:47:03  <Rubidium> Bjarni: building against 10.5 headers, linking against 10.4 libs?
20:47:10  <Bjarni> I will figure out which revision which breaks it for me and then we can figure out what to do from there
20:47:24  <TrueBrain> it was something simple .. but I can't remember :p
20:47:26  <Bjarni> Rubidium: should be only 10.5 files in my 10.5 install
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20:48:01  <Bjarni> I didn't upgrade 10.4 to 10.5. I decided on a clean install to prevent relics like that
20:48:30  <Rubidium> then why can't it find a quite important 10.5 lib?
20:48:47  <Bjarni> unknown
20:48:54  *** Progman [~progman@p57A1EBBE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:49:06  <Bjarni> but I intend to find out
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21:10:01  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:20:07  <Rubidium> Bjarni: maybe you 'need' to explicitly set -mmacosx-version-min or so?
21:20:23  <Bjarni> hopefully not
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21:20:37  <petern> evening
21:20:37  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: ssttt, you should have let him looked longer!
21:20:54  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: we all know what will happen ;)
21:21:04  <Rubidium> well, almost all will know what will happen
21:21:09  <Rubidium> evening petern
21:21:41  <Rubidium> how's the progress on music for OpenTTD co-authored by you and Belugas? ;)
21:21:56  <petern> hah
21:21:59  <petern> 0
21:22:00  <Bjarni> if I need to add that then there is something buggy somewhere in the code
21:22:03  <petern> cos it's not midid
21:22:05  <petern> er
21:22:05  <petern> midi
21:22:13  <petern> well my bit is midi, but it's not gm midi
21:22:21  <TrueBrain> Bjarni: sure .. I think it is our code ... select() is such a specific function :)
21:22:38  <Bjarni> I didn't say which code
21:22:43  <TrueBrain> who here knows how to make __asm__ block in gcc which looks up a C variable, without the use of those stupid %0 and stuff?
21:22:50  <TrueBrain> Bjarni: you said: 'our' code
21:22:50  <petern> also, stupid timezones :/
21:23:05  <Rubidium> yup, timezones suck
21:23:20  <Bjarni> <TrueBrain> Bjarni: you said: 'our' code <-- I said "the code"
21:23:31  <TrueBrain> fair enough
21:23:33  <Rubidium> is that like "the force"?
21:27:05  <TrueBrain> MSVC has better support for asm in C than GCC does! :o :o
21:30:30  <Rubidium> hmm, only the content download statistics really show that there's a new release
21:30:56  <Rubidium> last week was below average on binary downloads ;)
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22:05:58  <Rubidium> Bjarni: I can still build and link 10.5 binaries of OpenTTD
22:06:35  *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DE65.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:07:29  <glx> <TrueBrain> who here knows how to make __asm__ block in gcc which looks up a C variable, without the use of those stupid %0 and stuff? <-- check in win32.cpp (there's something like that IIRC)
22:07:54  <TrueBrain> glx: already found it :) Tnx anyway :)
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22:17:12  <Bjarni> Rubidium: odd. Still I need to figure out what goes on here because something isn't as it should be and if I and some user got the problem then it will reappear once in a while until we figure out the cause and a fix for this
22:17:33  <Bjarni> also I want to be able to compile the head revision myself
22:17:57  <Bjarni> developing can be quite hard otherwise
22:18:08  <Rubidium> http://rbijker.net/openttd/osx/openttd-custom-r16176M-OSX.zip <- I 'only' can not test whether it works on all supported platforms of the binary
22:20:10  <Bjarni> odd. The download stopped after 5 mb and didn't do anything until I paused and unpaused it
22:20:27  <Rubidium> Bjarni: my educated guess is that it is somewhere between 15890 and 15893
22:20:51  <Rubidium> especially r15892
22:21:03  <Bjarni> your binary executes just fine
22:21:19  <Rubidium> more like 1 of 5 ;)
22:22:26  <Bjarni> ok, trying 15891
22:23:40  <Belugas> Rubidium, we have something to chew on :)
22:24:09  <Rubidium> Bjarni: do you have by *any* chance XCode 3.1?
22:24:21  <Rubidium> (i.e. not XCode 3.1.2)
22:24:55  <Rubidium> hmm, never mind; doesn't matter
22:25:02  <Bjarni> I have 3.1.2
22:26:14  * Rubidium fears OSX doesn't like __LP64__ being defined for non 64 bit builds or so
22:26:32  <Rubidium> though lots of OSX's code depends on #if __LP64__
22:26:42  <Rubidium> which assumes the __LP64__ is defined
22:27:12  <Bjarni> 15891 just linked
22:28:20  <Bjarni> * Rubidium fears OSX doesn't like __LP64__ being defined for non 64 bit builds or so <--- that could be an issue. We should still support 32 bit computers
22:29:01  <Rubidium> Bjarni: *but* ... if __LP64__ means 64 bits, if !__LP64__ means not 64 bits
22:29:20  <Bjarni> I know
22:29:20  <Rubidium> i.e. #define __LP64__ 0 means not 64 bits
22:31:13  <Rubidium> must say that I've built only 64 binaries with 10.5
22:31:43  <Bjarni> 15892 just failed
22:33:24  <Rubidium> oh... lovely
22:33:40  <Rubidium> select 'depends' on ifdef __LP64__
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22:34:25  <Bjarni> yeah
22:34:34  <Bjarni> you should have presumed that
22:34:37  <Rubidium> stoopid morons!
22:34:46  <Bjarni> I mean it's perfectly natural, right :P
22:35:12  <Rubidium> have fun removing the #define __LP64__ 0 and fixing *all* the compile warnings everywhere
22:36:01  <Bjarni> why was it added in the first place?
22:36:04  <Rubidium> i.e. replace if __LP64__ with if defined(__LP64__) && __LP64__
22:36:21  <Rubidium> and if !__LP64__ with if !defined(__LP64__) || !__LP64__
22:36:53  <Rubidium> Bjarni: because it would simplify a lot of code
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22:38:01  * Bjarni wonders about r15892
22:38:32  <Bjarni> +#if defined(__APPLE__) && !defined(__LP64__) <-- in a file only included by "#if defined(__APPLE__)"
22:38:40  <Bjarni> first part is always true
22:39:04  <Rubidium> moved from stdafx.h
22:39:14  <Rubidium> (during development)
22:39:20  <Bjarni> ahh
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22:58:57  <Xaroth> AutoTTD 0.1.1.9 updated :: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=43252
22:59:19  <Xaroth> finally getting some help from people who want to test, so getting some bugs out (and about time as well )
23:04:26  <Sacro> hmm, no source
23:04:35  <Sacro> just one .cs file with the GPLv2 in it :\
23:04:45  <Sacro> however it's commented out so does that mean it doesn't apply?
23:04:45  <petern> .cs isn't source?
23:05:06  <Sacro> petern: no code
23:05:16  <Xaroth> .cs is CSharp
23:05:16  <Sacro> just /* GPLV2 TEXT */
23:05:58  <Xaroth> Sacro: source is on sf.net
23:06:09  <Sacro> Xaroth: not using google code or somesuch?
23:06:37  <Rubidium> google's rules suck
23:06:48  <Rubidium> (okay, sf
23:06:49  <Sacro> Rubidium: so does your mum
23:06:55  <Rubidium> (okay, sf's service sucks too)
23:07:08  <Xaroth> Rubidium: you offering better then? :P
23:07:31  <Sacro> sf has sucked for years
23:07:44  <Xaroth> I can leave my server to commit changes i make, so it's not a real issue that it's slow anyhow
23:07:49  <Rubidium> Sacro: unlikely that she sucks...
23:08:06  <Rubidium> (at least now)
23:08:10  <Xaroth> Sacro: http://sourceforge.net/projects/autottd/
23:08:44  <Xaroth> code's still a mess, then again, i've been too busy re-writing parts of it to not care much for keeping things pretty
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23:44:16  <Bjarni> where is select() defined?
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23:54:25  <Bjarni> nevermind
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